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SENATE HANSARD 05 September 2019 28-73
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 5th September, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to
inform the Senate that the House will adjourn today until Tuesday 24th September, 2019. During the period of adjournment only Committees with approved public hearings will be allowed to meet.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am sure you will join
me in expressing our utmost disappointment to the fact that other than Minister Mavhunga, no other Ministers turned up to attend this very important issue of Questions Without Notice and Questions With Notice. It is most regrettable and I can assure you that we are going to bring this to the attention of the President. We obviously have some Ministers who are on duty elsewhere but I am sure and convinced that there are other Ministers somewhere out there. Hon. Minister Mavhunga, can you move for the deferment of question time until such time when the Hon. Ministers will be in the House.
HON. MAVHUNGA: I move that Questions Without Notice and
Questions with Notice be deferred until Ministers are in the House.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS
ON FAMILIARISATION VISITS TO FEATHERSTONE, NGUNDU, BEITBRIDGE, GWANDA AND PLUMTREE POLICE STATIONS
AND BORDER POSTS.
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the
Thematic Committee on Human Rights on Familiarisation Visits to Featherstone, Ngundu, Beitbridge, Gwanda and Plumtree Police Stations and Border Posts
Question again proposed.
#HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this debate as a member of this committee that went to these places where our police officers and inmates stay. We came across quite a number of challenges which our police officers and inmates are facing. Let me mention a few things that we came across – in the cells where inmates, stay there were a few blankets that were placed by the side. These blankets are not even enough to cover these inmates especially when it is cold. The same cells do not have water for ablution facilities as well and it is dirty such that other inmates lose appetite when they get food. In the same police camps that we visited, police officers do not have enough chairs; they sit on benches, and some of them you will be talking with them whilst you are standing because they do not have anywhere to sit. It is very important for them to have chairs or even benches for them to sit on.
In some places the holding cells are very old; they were built during the Smith Regime. The holding cells are very old and they are in a very bad state, such that even the prisoners are not fit to be in those cells. We discovered that our police stations are still facing the challenges of lack of resources, for example they do not have enough cars for them to perform their duties as expected.
You can find that in a district, they will be using one car, of which they will not be performing their duties as expected, because they lack resources and this will result in some crimes being ignored. We urge the Government to provide the police with new cars.
In the border area these police stations do not have holding cells where they can lock in the prisoners. Looking at this challenge, the police need to walk long distances for them to take the prisoner to the holding cells and this will result in some prisoners running away from the police. We urge the Government to help in building the holding cells and borders like Beitbridge and Plumtree Border Post, this is where the crime rate is high and these borders are very busy. The Beitbridge Border Post is one of the big borders in the Southern Africa that need to be looked upon when we are looking at the issue of holding cells, they need to have enough security. The border is always busy during the day and even at night.
These are some of the important issues which need to be looked upon so that police will work under a peaceful environment. I do not want to waste time because this Committee has already mentioned so many things
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this very important motion. firstly, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Sekeramayi for moving the motion and I also want to thank the Thematic Committee on Human Rights for the tour that they did which they call familiarization visits to these said police stations.
Mr. President Sir, I was really surprised to hear the conditions of service for the police. The fact that it is the police doing the cooking for the prisoners and cleans up all the police stations. According to the Constitution, Chapter 223.1, functions of police service commission; what is the commission doing because the functions of the Police Service Commission Chapter 223.1, the police have the following functions:- to employ qualified and competent persons to hold posts or ranks in the police service; to fix and regulate conditions of service including salaries, allowances and other benefits of members of the Police Service; to ensure the general wellbeing and good administration of the Police Service and its maintenance in a high state of efficiency; to ensure that members of the police service comply with Section 203; and to foster harmony and understanding between the Police Service and civilians.
How can the police do their work if they are made to work like labourers? I am pleading with the Commission to look at this because it is an embarrassment to our country. Our police force will never do a proper job as long as their conditions of services are not improved. So as the Senate we have to look at this and really applaud the Committee on Human Rights for actually coming up with this report to the Senate.
I also want to implore the Minister to look at this as a matter of urgency, to really look at the conditions of service of our police so that they can do a good job. It is really unfortunate that possibly the Committee could not go to most police stations, but I am sure if resources were permitting; if they had to go around the country, they would actually find the same poor services. So, we really need these services improved so that our police can function. I thank you.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President. I am one of those who went on that very trip that is being talked about by some Senators. I would like to add on a few remarks on what we saw. Unfortunately, I may repeat what has been said by Senator Mohadi because I did not understand the language but I will do my best to talk about something else. We visited a number of police stations - the one that we were shocked about was the Ngundu police Station. As we went into the Ngundu Police Station, we did not even believe that we were driving towards a police station because the road to the police station was not a road, it was a just a bush.
As we go to the police station, we were so shocked and surprised that the police station which was meant to be temporal during the liberation war is still there and it is in a terrible state. It was meant to be a temporary location built out of some prefabs, those wooden houses. Most of them have been eaten by white ants. You cannot even believe that our modern police would work in such a police station. It was terrible. I am sure the Committee wrote a very strong report to the Commissioner that something needs to be done immediately on that police station. However, we were very impressed by the Gwanda police station. It is the police station that when you get there you envy and you know you are getting into a police station. As we went into the police station, even where the prisoners sleep, it was so neat and smart. You can even see there is a very high organisation in that police station. We urge the Commissioner to take very serious look at the Ngundu Police Station to see that something is done soon. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. I was one of the Members of the Committee that went on tours. A lot of things have already been said. We went to
Furtherstone which was built in 1943. I witnessed at Furtherstone something which I have never witnessed in any of the cells that I have been to. When we got into the cell, we saw something round and we asked what it was. They explained that it was for violent accused persons. They use it to secure the accused person. I liked that concept because violent accused persons can fight other accused persons in cell.
I was happy with that arrangement.
I also witnessed the same in Ngundu. We do not know whether this was relevant for those who had or it was for abuse. In Ngundu, we witnessed the same and they explained the same. However, I was not happy with their police station.
We then went to Beitbridge and we were shocked to see armed soldiers. We asked why there were armed soldiers because we had not witnessed any soldier at any police station but they explained that soldiers were needed in order to aid the police in arresting accused persons who may be armed. The armed soldiers were also found at
Plumtree Border Post and the same thing was explained. We thought that having armed soldiers at the borders was intimidating to visitors coming to the country.
When we went to Gwanda police station, we were impressed. It was the best police station. It is well built. For some of us who wore stilettos we almost fell. We never faced any problems in Gwanda. With those few words, I want to thank you Mr. President. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 24th September, 2019.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. My
question would have been directed to the Minister of State Security but in his absence, I direct the question to the Leader of Government
Business. My question is in two parts. Did Zimbabwe know or did not know about the impending xenophobic attacks in South Africa? If it did, what did it do about it?
The second part is, what is the Government doing to protect the
Zimbabwean people who are facing xenophobia in South Africa?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Mr. President, there were unsubstantiated reports that South Africans were planning to carry out what they did and the South African Government was against it as indicated by the pronouncement by the Government and what they have done. The Government of Zimbabwe relies on the Government of South Africa for the protection of everyone within their territory. As a Government, we do not have any means of getting into the territory of another and protect our citizens besides relying with the Government of South Africa which they have started doing. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Hon. Minister, you have confirmed that the Zimbabwean Government in fact knew about the impending attacks. Why did it not alert like other governments do, its citizens in South Africa to expect those attacks?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I said there were unsubstantiated reports and an alert was already there because unsubstantiated reports pointed to an attack that was imminent and our reliance was on the South African officials to ensure that there is peace and security within South Africa. I am not sure whether the alert was going to give the assurance that the attack would not be carried out. That information that we had was that South Africa was going to ensure that peace and security is maintained within its borders, of which they have since deployed forces to ensure that happens.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Minister, do you have the number
of people that have died from the xenophobia attacks who are
Zimbabwean and also who have lost their properties? I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. President, that is a very specific question which if the Hon. Member wants statistics, we can request our Embassy in Pretoria to furnish us if they managed to collect the statistics.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: I think it is the duty of our
Government, the State to look after every citizen of Zimbabwe, anyone who carries our passport wherever they are. I think this issue of xenophobia has been going on for quite some time. It is repetitive. Is the Government considering putting pressure to that Government which is South African Government to compensate our citizens who are losing their businesses each time there is an outbreak of xenophobia?
HON. ZIYAMBI: It is our duty to ensure that we maintain peace and security in Zimbabwe. We do not interfere with the territorial integrity of another country to protect our citizens. It is a request that is unattainable. We can only but convey to the South African authorities that they are bound by international conventions that they acceded, to ensure that they protect everyone within their territory. I am not sure how they want us to compensate each and everyone who meets a calamity wherever they are in the world and the Government of Zimbabwe compensates. I am at pains to understand how that can be done by any Government in the world. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: The Hon. Minister, through you
Mr. President, I think missed the point. It is not for the Government of
Zimbabwe to compensate for what has happened in South Africa but the Government must put pressure to make sure or influence so that our citizens get compensation. It is not about us compensating for what is happening outside our territory.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Indeed, there are diplomatic channels that are being followed to ensure that this issue is resolved. As soon as those channels or something is concluded, the nation will be made aware of whatever would have transpired. As you know, our President is the Chairman of the Organ on Security, Politics and Defence, and he will engage his counterparts as well as the South African President. That is part of his duty during his tenure as Chairman to ensure that within the region there is peace and security. He is going to follow up and have those engagements with a view of ensuring that we have peace and security in Southern Africa.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: My question to the Minister of Mines is; we have regions that have minerals such as diamonds and gold. In Mwenezi, what does Government policy say concerning these areas because for people to go and peg claims in those areas, they are informed that the area is reserved. We are perplexed. Why is it that it is just Mwenezi that is reserved and yet others are mining and getting the minerals?
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): I want to thank the
Senator for that important question concerning reserved areas in Mwenezi. The reservations that we make are not only in one area but countrywide. When we have information that the area has minerals that need big investors for large scale operations, we usually reserve such areas. If the Hon. Senator has an investor, she can come to the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development and seek approval for her to peg that area. She can be given a letter that enables her to go and peg that area. Some miners are coming and are being assisted. What we urge the miners working on reserved areas is that the reserved areas should be mined efficiently and effectively to ensure that the minerals being mined benefit the country at large. Hon. Senator, if there is an area that you have identified that has precious metals come to our offices and we will assist you or if there are diamonds in that area, the Head of State announced the diamond policy that provided what should be done by anyone in cases where diamonds are found. If there are any who have identified an area with diamonds, there are four companies that were allowed to mine depending on the nature of the joint venture.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: I thank the Minister for that explanation. My supplementary question is - this process is only done here in Harare. Do your officers in the provinces know about it because there are people who have approached your offices but they did not get assistance? They were informed but they could not get assistance since they are reserved areas. I thank you.
HON. KAMBAMURA: In our various provinces they have not
yet been instructed to allow people to peg in those reserved areas but they redirect people to the head office where they can get assistance. Since the Senator has highlighted this, we will sit down as a Ministry and ensure under the ease of doing business mantra, plans be made for provincial officials to be able to handle such matters.
Mr. President, various provinces have not yet been instructed to allow people to peg in those reserved areas but they should redirect people as to where they can get assistance. Since the Senator has highlighted this, we will sit down as the Ministry and ensure that we use the ease of doing business criteria to ensure that we have officials in the area who can avail those approval letters for people to mine. It is expensive for a person to travel from Bulawayo to Harare to come and get approval in order to engage in mining activities. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President.
Minister when you say you are inviting people to come to your offices to get mining letters; what is the relationship between issuing a licence by your offices and the proper mining? I will give you an example where people have gone to get a licence and when they went to the mining area they were not able to mine because there is no consultation with the local people, the local people will refuse and say that you will not mine. How do you relate, who actually consults the local people, on the issuance of licence?
HON. KAMBAMURA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to
thank the Hon. Senator for that supplementary question. The process when we issue licences, usually our team goes to the sites for ground verification. It is during that process when they are supposed to consult the locals whether there are any reservations over the areas which they want to issue out for mining. We have such cases where people go to peg for a certain block, then the locals come forward that these are our reserved areas for traditional purposes. So it is important if ever there is an investor or anyone who wants to mine, they should consult the locals so that they work together with the community in which they want to mine.
Also for environmental assessment, there are some reports from the locals, signed by the chief, so it is important to consult the locals before engaging in any mining activity to avoid clash of interests.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: I want some clarifications, when
you are given a licence by your office, when are you supposed to consult the local people, is it after you have the licence or before? If you approach the National Assessment they think you are starting afresh to get a licence, so where exactly is one supposed to consult the locals? That is why I asked about your relationship – issuing a licence and the proper mining and consultation with the locals, people end up being issued with licences when they cannot mine. The Environmental Assessment Agents will also say you have not consulted the local people and it becomes a circle. For the ease of doing business, how many months do you think you take for one to start operation after getting a licence?
HON. KAMBAMURA: Thank you Mr. President. The process is
supposed to start with consultation before payment of fees. After that our officers will go for verification but we cannot rule out the fact that there are some officials who may go by short-cut and issue licences corruptly. We are in the process of following up. In the past, whenever there were disputes, the Ministry would attend to disputes but not looking back at the officials who would have caused that chaos to occur. So again, to answer the issue of the timeframe to issue a mining licence, currently we are incapacitated in terms of vehicles. With few vehicles that we have, every application that comes has to follow the queue. Fortunately, very soon we are looking forward to receive a complement of vehicles and maybe after we have cleared the backlog, that is when we can be able to tell how long it will take to issue a new mining licence. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to
understand, when an area is called a reserved area, who is it reserved for, because if we approach provincial offices, they inform us that we cannot peg in that particular area because it is a reserved area. Who is it reserved for if the people living in that community cannot access it? We are also supposed to develop but how do we develop as a community when the area is reserved?
*HON. KAMBAMURA: Thank you Hon. President. Responding
to Hon. Sen. Shumba’s question, whenever we sit down to plan we do not sell all the grain to GMB but we keep some in our domestic granaries, in the event of a drought in the next season. So, if we look at the mining sector, there are areas that are reserved for the same purposes. It could be that certain reserved areas have minerals that can assist the nation later on and it is for sustainability purposes. They are reserved for future generations. Some are reserved for the fact that we can get investors who have the capacity to engage in mining activities in those areas. If we are to mine all areas today- Senator Shumba, you have grandchildren who need to make a living; who need sustainable livelihoods. So they will use those reserved areas. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I want to find out what programmes the Ministry has to protect schools from gold panners, generally in Zimbabwe. I would not like to be specific; I will remain general.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): I am assuming this refers to situations where panners or illegal miners may encroach on school property. That is what I am assuming and if that is the case, they are not supposed to do that. Matters should then be referred to the police, otherwise the school authorities on their own may not be in a position to do that. This becomes a matter of criminal activity that should be reported to the police and the police should take action against such encroachments.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Mr. President.
My question was supposed to be directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works, but in his absence, I will refer it to the leader of the House. I would want to know whether it is government policy that the welfare of traditional leaders is just discussed and left without being resolved until traditional leaders live in abject poverty to the extent that they become a burden to those that they live with? Does government policy allow preferential treatment between civil servants and traditional leaders? If you look at the history, the issue of traditional leaders has been discussed since 2010 without anything being done. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon Member for his pertinent question. I want to start by stating that what the Hon Member said is not correct when he said the issue of traditional leaders has just been discussed without anything happening.
He should have said that some of the issues have been resolved but there are still some outstanding issues. This would have given the correct position of what took place. Hon. President, in 2017, after engagement with traditional leaders, they started getting their cars in line with addressing what they had raised as a welfare issue.
Last year 2018, those who had not gotten their cars also received them. Currently, discussions are ongoing to increase their allowances but how they negotiate is different from the civil service. Civil servants have their own Commission which negotiates on their behalf, likewise, the traditional leaders are also supposed to have their own negotiation forum. So, we also anticipate that to happen for traditional leaders so that when negotiations for the civil service are being done they are also represented at their own fora so that their welfare can be uplifted. Our government is concerned with the welfare of our traditional leaders, so government will continue to do all it can to ensure that their welfare concerns are addressed. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: I want to thank the Hon.
Minister for his wise response. It is true we got our vehicles but what I was referring to when I gave the example of civil servants is to do with salaries. It is true that there are supposed to be negotiations, but what lags behind is the implementation part. It never materialises but it ends as a discussion. We have our own well known institution – Traditional
Leaders Chief’s Council which has a budget but we do not know where the money goes after that, hence the reason why I asked the question. Is it not that everyone’s welfare should be looked at at the same time, because we are also people who need to survive at the end of the day? I thank you.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Hon. Member for
acknowledging that the welfare of the chiefs has been looked into and something has already been done towards that. If it is the issue of salaries that is when I said they can negotiate through their institution which should continue to pursue the issue of pay increases, just like the Civil Service Commission does. It never tires to represent its workers. I say so because each case is resolved through negotiations and persistently so. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Prof. Mavhima. It has become common knowledge that some schools, particularly in Matebeleland North are getting a zero pass rate at Grade 7 public examinations. What is government policy on such schools or even the teachers? What remedial action has the Ministry taken to assist such schools? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVHIMA): Let me thank Hon.
Senator. Mpofu for that important question. This is an issue that the Ministry takes very seriously. We have had quite a number of schools in different parts of the country at Grade 7 and Form 4 recording zero pass rates. What the Ministry has done is to identify all of them and try to clearly understand what the causes are, whether it is the issue of teachers or teaching and learning materials in order to take action to address the specific problems those schools have had.
I know that we started off with a very big number in some parts, especially of Matebeleland North and South but that is something that we also get in areas such as Gokwe, in the Midlands in Mbire, Kariba and there are a number of ways in which we are dealing with that. If it is the issue of not having enough teachers, then we address it by offering those schools more teachers. Generally, we have tried to provide up-todate teaching and learning materials for all schools, but we also target those schools to make sure there are adequate teaching and learning materials.
Then at the primary school level, we then go in and implement the Performance Lag Adjustment Programme (PLAP). We try to see where we are having problems with the performance of the learners in that school and we have a programme targeted to ensure that these learners catch up. Most of the time performance is related to reading, which might not be adequate for comprehension and therefore, learners fail to perform in examination. So we have this programme called
Performance Lag Address Programme which we then direct and our DSI’s supervise to ensure that these schools are implementing these PLAP programmes. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Now that the Minister has indicated that they have done a review, is the lack of teachers and material in these places a systematic problem only in Matabeleland or not?
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: In my response, I indicated that this issue does not only affect Matabeleland but all parts of the country. Of course differently, even within provinces the spatial distribution, some districts will do well and others will not. So, it affects the entirety of the country but it typically affects rural schools and the Ministry has taken a very deliberate stance to say it is the disadvantaged schools that we should give priority to when we provide especially teaching and learning material throughout the country. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I think yes the other provinces, there are schools that have problems as such but in Matabeleland North, I am sure as a Minister, you would have an interest, there is zero percent pass rate.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: No, that is not a correct statistic. We have some of the best performing schools in Matabeleland North. As leaders of this House, we should learn to be honest with ourselves. You cannot say the entirety of Matabeleland North records zero percent, that is a lie and it is not acceptable to say the entirety of the province records zero percent at Grade 7. Victoria Falls, Hwange St Mary’s will record 100% and you sit here as a leader and communicate to Zimbabwe such a
lie. It is not acceptable.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. My apologies for drawing him back a bit but because of national interest, I had to do that because that will inform the nation since it is being screened live. I would want to know that on the issue of xenophobia, he said that he is in consultations with the South African Government for the xenophobic attacks to end but if these attacks do not come to an end, what do they have as Plan B? People have their relatives who affected and we want to know what the nation has as Plan B?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Our Plan B is
engaging the South African Government until we get a solution. I thank you.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. May I know through the Leader of the House, President Mnangagwa is the Chairperson of the JOC on Politics Defence and Security but we saw a statement where he was telling President Ramaphosa to use force. Is it proper for the President on politics and defence to say a statement like that?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
President Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Indeed, the use of force is there in statutes world over but it is the extent of the force. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: My question is directed to the
Minister of Mines. He responded well but my question is - are there any measures to protect the country? We are coming from rural areas where illegal mining is taking place. What measures do you have in place to ensure that they protect the environment since livestock can also be lost?
I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): We allow people to
engage in mining activities in permissible areas and we give licences. If people are mining without licences as has been explained by the Hon. Chief, the Home Affairs department or the ZRP should arrest such individuals. The people in those areas who are in leadership positions should report such matters to the ZRP to ensure that these people are brought to book. If people are mining without licences, that is when we get to hear these artisanal miners having machetes and killing each other and also degrading the environment. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: I am a chief and I control all those artisanal miners who are mining everywhere, there is no order. It is the police themselves who engage in these illegal mining activties.
HON. KAMBURA: As I have explained, if there are people who are breaking the law, as a Ministry, we do not have arresting powers but the Ministry of Home Affairs. So, I think this question should be redirected to the Minister of Home Affairs that, what are the measures ZRP taking to ensure that they arrest people who are mining in undesignated areas. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. Minister, I think the Minister does not understand the sense of the question. The question is saying that we are the custodians, the chiefs, the traditional leaders of the areas where mining is taking place but we do not have authority over the people who come and engage in mining activities. We are told that they have the requisite papers but they are engaging in mining activities that are not permitted in the areas under our jurisdiction. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It appears to
me that it is the same question which is being asked about the extent of perceived illegal mining which is going on and the Minister is saying you have to report to the police. That is the answer which is the
Minister is giving – [HON. SEN. NCUBE: Supplementary Mr. President.] – I have not finished. I am still – [HON. SEN. NCUBE: My apologies.] – May I suggest that perhaps if there are specific areas, you write that down and bring it through Parliament. You can submit written questions and we submit to the Ministry so that we get a comprehensive answer citing specific areas where there is rampant perceived illegal mining going on. As I understand, it is pertaining to the Midlands mostly, is it not? – [AN HON. SENATOR: No, it is whole country.] – As presented by Hon. Sen. Chief Ntabeni, it is Midlands. Perhaps Chief, if you can submit your question in writing and cite specific areas, we might have a comprehensive response – [AN HON. SENATOR: To the same Ministry?] – To Ministry of Mines.
*HON. SEN. MKWEBU: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Mines. If you have been given land, another person comes to that land and takes you to the courts.
What does the policy say because the papers will have been prepared by the Mines office but the new miner would have taken you to the High Court?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): Thank you Mr.
President. I would like to thank the Hon. Sen. for that question. The question posed by the Hon. Sen., as I understood it is that if there is a dispute we end up being taken to court yet I have all the paper work showing that all I did was above board. In most cases in the event of a dispute, in provinces there are dispute committees that are chaired by the provincial mining director. If they fail to resolve the dispute, it is then taken to the head office and there is a committee that was set up by the Minister. What normally happens is that the two miners after being involved in a dispute, before the committee sits to rectify the dispute, one can rush to report the matter to the court; or after being referred to the head office by the province, the other party can report the matter to the courts. So, policy says that once those engaged in the dispute have gone to the court, the Ministry does not have powers to resolve the dispute because it is a lower court than the High Court. We cannot sit down, reach a consensus and resolve the dispute because it means we will be in contempt of the higher court.
*HON. SEN. MKWEBU: Once that issue is taken to the High Court, it is not taken to the Ministry of Mines. It can be withdrawn from the High Court and taken to the Mines Ministry and it is returned again to the High Court. What does the policy say on this matter?
* HON. KAMBAMURA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for that supplementary question. I have heard the question but it seems it is the same question. If people approach the Ministry of Mines in the event of a dispute, after that dispute is solved, if there is a determination that is given and the other party is aggrieved because of that ruling, the party is allowed to approach the courts. Once that matter is before the courts, as a Ministry we do not get involved. You will get someone who then withdraws the cases. Once a person withdraws a case, it is in a way accepting that he is in the wrong. This withdrawing and reporting and withdrawing, as the other party you can go to the courts and bring it to their attention that they are wasting the court’s time. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Leader of the House. In 2018, the International Election Observers and the local observers identified 225 mis-acts of the electoral process. I wanted to find out whether the Government has started doing anything to correct these mis-acts of electoral processes so that in the next coming elections everything will be sorted out.
Also because of time Mr. President, when is the Government planning to align Chapter 11 of the Security Services Operations to our Constitution?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon.
Senator, you are allowed one question at a time.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question and indicate that indeed when we have elections, we invite observers; local, from the region and international at large. They produced the reports of their observations and a recommendation Mr. President Sir, is made to somebody to study and decide whether to accept it or not. The President set up an Inter-ministerial Taskforce, which I chair to look into all the recommendations with a view of finding out where the gaps are and where we might need to have some legislative reforms. The document is now awaiting Cabinet approval and once that is done, it will be made public. I must add that some of the issues that came up we have already started implementing, like the repeal of POSA. We have started the process and it is completed, as well as AIPPA. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: My questions is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. Looking specifically on the issue of monitoring of policies I would think that because policies are done for the people, if they are seen that they are not working, the Minister is supposed to see how we are supposed to survive. What am I saying? I want to talk about liquor licences which have been difficult to obtain since long back. They now have decentralised to provinces but licences are not being issued. They are said to be on internet but it is not working.
I applied in December, up to now I do not have. Here is the problem: Delta says you cannot order beer when you do not have a licence. What am I supposed to do?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think that question is
supposed to be directed to the Minister of Local Government but perhaps he can respond.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
- NDLOVU): It is correct Hon. President that this is a Local Government issue, however just to highlight that if there are specific bottlenecks that are encountered in acquiring liquor licences, we should be able to assist as Government. It is not the intention of the application process to delay or deny applicants the licences so we are open to take the matter on board and find redress to the issue but it will be directed to the Minister of Local Government.
*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: My question is directed to the Leader of the House. Is it allowed in Zimbabwe for foreigners to vote in elections?
Why am I saying so? There is a Minister of Information who said that Ndebele people are from South Africa. How did you allow them to vote in elections?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I have not seen
an official statement which says the Government has said that Ndebele people are foreigners. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: My question is directed to the
Minister of Home Affairs. Children from the rural areas who got scholarships to go and study out of the country are facing a lot of problems when they go to apply for passports. Is there a law which can assist these children? They are different from children who dwell in urban areas but those from rural areas are cheated and have their money being stolen by office bearers at the passport office. We want them to also access passports so that they can go outside and uplift our rural areas.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): The question which
has been asked by the Hon. Senator is a very important one and it affects a lot of people. It is the Government position that passports should be accessed by every Zimbabwean whenever they need them. The problem we have at the moment is the resources to use in making those passports. As of now, we have very little resources. We can issue 800 passports per day. We have people who are waiting to get passports. We have 340 000 people who are waiting for passports.
Meaning to say among those people are some who have serious diseases who need assistance and who have to go outside the country. There are also students, which makes it difficult for the Registrar
General’s Office to issue emergency travel documents. What I can say to the Hon. Senator, is that the people who are facing those kinds of problems have to write and inform the Registrar General so that they are put on top priority for people who would be waiting for passports, which is equal to the resources which will be available. It is the Government position that this should be fixed immediately.
The Ministry of Home Affairs is trying its level best that we make sure that passports are available because the Ministry of Finance, through their facilities, assists us in the issuance of passports. It is unfortunate this problem is there that people are not accessing passports on time including Zimbabwean citizens in the diaspora. When they get work outside the country, they are supposed to have valid passports for more than six months to enable them to get permits. So the Government is looking at how we can fix the problem so that passports can be issued to those who want emergency travel documents. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by the HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 62.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: I move that time for Questions Without Notice be extended with twenty minutes, there is a reasonable number of Minister now present.
HON. B. MPOFU: I second Motion put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. Minister, can you give us your policy as to how you are going to assist farmers in terms of supply of fuel and electricity, taking cognisance of the fact that at present both are not available and we are now approaching the farming season. The electricity sometimes is cut off at consistent times. If they cut it off at 1800 p.m, it will come back at 0400
a.m. It is so consistent everyday that you might not be able to sleep - how do you get fuel to your farms because you might need it in drums and the like. So, how are you planning for the farming season to ensure that farmers and other business people will be able to get reasonable and consistent energy?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. President. I
would like to thank the Hon. Senator for the very pertinent question.
Firstly, let me answer on electricity. Yes, we are still having shortage of electricity due to reasons that have been said now and again. What we have always done is we discussed with farmers at the moment who are engaged in wheat farming. We have discussed with them and have advised them that our generation of electricity has gone very low but they can start irrigating their crop as soon as electricity is switched on.
Even at night, we have encouraged them to do that.
The main challenge is that we cannot be consistent in supplying that electricity because now and again we are experiencing breakdowns at Hwange, which is now the major supplier of electricity since Kariba is almost down. The other small thermal power stations in Bulawayo, Munyati and Harare are also consistently breaking down. So that is basically what I can say, that at the moment we have advised them to take on to irrigating their crops as soon as they have electricity. Those farmers who have gone for long without electricity - maybe there is a fault within that area. Maybe the transformer has been vandalized or it is down, we have advised them to meet with the ZETDC regional managers to report their case so that it can be traced where the problem, is but I think as of now, that is what we can do at the moment.
We are engaging on solar energy and we are also encouraging these farmers, those who can afford to have solar plants at their farms for irrigation because we have got plenty of the sun. Also, the Government has got several other projects for solar which are under different stages of completion, but at the moment our electricity is really constrained.
Coming to fuel….
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before you
go to fuel, he wanted to know whether you have got any plans for prioritizing supply to farmers.
HON. MUDYIWA: On electricity; yes that is what we have done
but the issue is that – electricity even if we are to prioritise to farmers, it is not enough to cater for them on their day to day needs of electricity, but we are prioritizing them and we have advised those wheat farmers in their areas to work with ZETDC so that they are prioritized in terms of electricity.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: I am not talking of the coming
season but the current season?
HON. MUDYIWA: For the current season, I do not think there is much we can do at the moment. We are trying to make sure that for Hwange, the units are fully operational if they are repaired, like Unit six which has been down since March, I think we need to start on it this month of September. We are working tirelessly to ensure that all the six units at Hwange are operational. Once they are operational – I am sure there will be more megawatts of electricity which can at least take us somewhere with supply to farmers with electricity.
On fuel, I think the Government has taken measures where we are saying the fuel traders get monies at inter-bank rate so that they buy fuel from the suppliers. Our role as a Ministry is to facilitate that there is fuel in the country. Once we see that there is a gap, we follow up on what the problem is either with the bank or the traders and then we try and rectify that problem. Otherwise we are ready to make sure that there is plenty of fuel for the farming season which is almost starting, may be in October or so. So we want to make sure that we have got enough fuel in the country. In most cases we do have enough fuel at our depots in Masasa and Mabvuku but the issue is on payment. At times the issue is beyond our control that they fail to get the foreign currency to pay for the fuel, there is not much that we can do, but we always engage the RBZ to make sure that the money is availed for fuel.
+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: My question is directed to the
Leader of Government Business, Hon. Ziyambi on behalf of Minister of
Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, Hon. July Moyo. We heard that chiefs were given vehicles, what is his Ministry doing so that village heads and kraal heads also get those vehicles because the chiefs work with these people?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO): I want to thank the Hon Senator for the follow up question where he highlighted that government looks at the welfare of chiefs but what about headmen and kraal-heads? When you discuss the welfare of chiefs you also discuss the welfare of the headmen but the welfare of kraal-heads was lagging way behind. So where the welfare of chiefs is being discussed, the headmen and kraalheads are also included. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. M. R. DUBE: My question is on xenophobia. Until when are we going to be quiet as a nation while our citizens are abused and killed in South Africa?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon Senator for her question though I am really unhappy because the Hon Senator is not acknowledging the open truth that is being seen by everyone. There is one Hon. Member who mentioned that the President was seen on television urging the Government of South Africa to use a bit of force so that the perpetrators of this violence can stop doing so. It was mentioned in this House and I actually answered that question. My wish is that when we say things, let us give credit to the good things that were done and then go on to say what we think should have been done further to that not to say nothing happened. Our Government, from the President and our ambassador in South Africa were seen on TV also explaining the situation in South Africa and actually telling us the measures that they have put in place. So, the Hon. Senator should actually have thanked our representative in South Africa and our President for all their endevours. When our President got there he held discussions with his counterpart and he continues to engage the President of South Africa.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Industry and Commerce. It is common knowledge that you have been talking about establishing amancimbi industry in areas in Matebeleland South, in particular specific areas being Gwanda and Plumtree so that they can value add them then export as well as create employment for our citizens. Can we have the latest on that one?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
- NDLOVU): As the Ministry of Industry and Commerce we recently launched the National Industrial Development Policy and part of the key pillars in that is the promotion and development of rural industries. We are almost complete in coming up with provincial industrial development policies and I think it will be by the end of this week. It is coming up prominently in Matabeleland South Province that there is need to develop the further processing of amancimbi -this natural resource. As a Ministry, we stand ready to provide full support to any prospective investor into this potentially lucrative industry. We even have facilities through our industrial development co-operation where such potential investors can get assistance. As Government, we will not go into establishing factories but we will support potential investors. So, I encourage the Hon. Senator to direct anyone who is interested in venturing into this specific business to visit our offices and they will get assistance. I thank you.
HON. SEN B. MPOFU: On a point of order Mr. President, today being the last day for this session, we have got questions that date back to November and I want to ..
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is not the
last day of the First Session of the Ninth Parliament. The Senate is reconvening on the 24th September. You have raised the question of a question which has been on the Order Paper since 2018 and I acknowledged that you were right and that we were writing to the responsible Minister because it is unhealthy and unacceptable to have such a situation.
REHABILITATION OF THE TSHIKWALAKWALA
IRRIGATION SCHEME IN BEIT BRIDGE EAST CONSTITUENCY
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Lands,
Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to state when the Tshikwalakwala Irrigation Scheme in Beitbridge East Constituency will be rehabilitated in order to mitigate the challenge of food shortages.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): In face of the climatic changes that we are currently experiencing, irrigation is of critical importance to our great nation, in particular for us to move away from traditional rain fed agriculture to climate smart irrigation. Our Ministry’s mandate is food security and that is what we target. Therefore, the irrigation scheme that the Hon. Senator has brought up is of critical importance but more importantly it is well known within our Government and Ministry. The unfortunate coincidence was that at the time where we require irrigation so badly we lacked funding. However, I would like to inform this House that we have received funding in the form of 100 000 hectares from a company called MACA which should be rolled out in the next three years. This funding will be used for current irrigations like the one in particular that the Hon. Sen. has brought up as well as new irrigation schemes going forward.
LACK OF MAIZE GRAIN AT THE GMB DEPOT IN BEIT
BRIDGE
- 16. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to inform the House why there is no maize grain at the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) Depot in Beitbridge, a situation that has resulted in people incurring high costs of transporting grain from the Bulawayo GMB Depot
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Thank you Hon. President and again thank you to the
Hon. Senator for the very good question. I have personally contacted GMB in the course of the last few weeks and they assured me that maize will be transferred as a matter of urgency to the relevant depot, Beitbridge.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: This depot that we are talking about has taken too long and looking into the fact that the area that we are talking about, Beitbridge is in region 5 whereby people did not harvest anything, if their local GMB does not have grain and I think it is almost five months now down the ladder, where are they getting food? I thank you.
HON. HARITATOS: As I have mentioned, I have spoken to GMB and it is an urgent matter. The statement that the Hon. Senator made is correct. We have people that require this maize yesterday not tomorrow, not today. So, this is something that we have put on an urgent list to do by the GMB and I promise you that I will follow it up until delivery has been made. Thank you.
FINANCIAL RESOURCES RELEASED BY TREASURY
TOWARDS FINANCING THE COMMAND AGRICULTURE
PROGRAMME
- HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to state the amount of financial resources released by the Treasury towards financing the Command Agriculture Programme this farming season and to confirm whether such allocation will be adequate for the expected outputs.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Hon. President Sir, I would like to apologise to this House that I have misplaced two questions out of the questions for today and unfortunately, this happens to be one of them. However, I can tell this House that Government has set aside ZWL2, 8 billion for the Command Agriculture Programme. We encourage more private players to be involved with Command Agriculture as that is our future. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We will treat
that question as deferred, which means we still expect a written answer.
PRODUCTION OF THE NATIONAL CEREAL CROP OUTPUT
THIS FARMING SEASON
- HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to inform the House the national cereal crop produced this farming season and to also state the proportion contributed by the Command Agriculture Programme.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): What I can tell you is what we expect from the two cereal grains. The first is maize; we expect unfortunately due to the drought only 700 000mt this current season. However, the season is still ongoing and deliveries are still being made. The proportion of the maize that has been grown, that we are expecting does in fact come from Command Agriculture, the bulk of the proportion which is another question.
Wheat – currently again, we have not harvested the current season and unfortunately due to the drought, we are only expecting between 70
000 to 100 000 metric tonnes of wheat this coming season. I thank you.
TOTAL NUMBER OF WHEAT FARMERS IN THE COUNTRY
- HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA asked Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to inform the House the national cereal crop output produced this farming season and to also state the proportion contributed by the Command Agriculture Programme.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Thank you for the question. This current season we have only grown approximately 25 000 hectares of wheat. The Hon. Senator asked how we incentivise farmers to venture into wheat production. Essentially, how we have to incentivise wheat farmers is to provide them with the right price. Wheat farmers are very competent, they have the irrigation available but what we need to offer them as Government is a price that keeps them and allows them to keep going back to the field. If we do not offer the right price, the hectrage will continue to diminish until we no longer grow wheat. So, the incentivising that we do as Government is through price. It is my
Ministry’s intention that we will continue to review prices in line with the economic situation. Therefore, if prices of inputs increase, our price should increase to our farmers again to ensure that they do go back to the fields.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Right now, if we look at our
import bill for wheat, it is just too high but we have got land, capable farmers, if those resources could be channeled I think we would solve the problem. My question to the Minister was to really see something practical which is done but the response I got from the Minister, I do not think really addresses what we want to hear as to what Government is doing. Next season we will still continue to have a high import bill.
HON. HARITATOS: Prior to independence, we have always imported wheat. I think it is something that many people do not know or do not understand. Zimbabwe has never been self sufficient in wheat production. Therefore, what is important for us going forward is to plan to ensure that we are self sufficient in the production of wheat.
I would mention to this Hon. House that going into this current season, we had 75 000 hectares of inputs ready to distribute to our farmers. However, our farmers were not forthcoming and they only accessed 25 000 hectares. There were several challenges that we all know, for example electricity that affected the decisions of our farmers.
One could argue that another decision made by our farmers was the issue of price. That is why I mentioned that in order for us to truly incentivise our farmers we have to offer them the best price. If we offer them the best price then in Zimbabwe we say, we can make a plan and that is what farmers are very good at doing. They are hard workers, we have the land, water, the climate but most importantly we have the human capital. We can grow enough wheat in Zimbabwe, we have never been able to but the potential is there. It is my hope that throughout my tenure as a Deputy Minister, at least one thing that I would have done is to ensure that we grow enough wheat for Zimbabwe. I thank you.
AMOUNT OF MAIZE DELIVERED TO THE GMB BY A2
FARMERS DURING THE 2018-19 FARMING SEASON
- HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA asked the Minister of Lands,
Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to:-
- inform the House the amount of maize delivered to the Grain Marketing Board by A2 farmers during the 2018-2019 farming season; and
- explain whether the Ministry has set any production targets for those allocated A2 farms and if there are any repercussions for those who underutilise the land.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): I would like to apologise, this is the second that I do not have. However, if you would like I can make one or two comments with regards to some basic figures, for example the season of 2018 to 2019.
As a nation, we grew approximately 1, 6 million metric tonnes of maize. A good proportion of that was A2 farmers. Unfortunately, I do not have the figures in front of me and I apologise, Hon. Senator.
The second part of it is, our target is to maintain two million metric tonnes of maize. With regards to the question of underutilization of land, I think you know Mr. President Sir that there is currently a land audit that is being conducted. We hope that land audit will be able to tell us exactly what farms are underutilised instead of us talking broadly. I am very confident that once the land audit had been completed, we will have a very good picture and will be able to know how to move forward.
Thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: I wanted the Minister to address on the issue of individual farmers, because when you give out command inputs, it is a contract between you and the farmer. Do you give targets because we do not want someone who is perennially getting inputs from command but is not producing the intended targets? It is a waste to the Government. These are the issues so that everyone who goes into command farming knows the obligations and also is serious about it.
The impression now is like cheap inputs and we are not accountable.
HON. HARITATOS: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I thank the Hon. Sen. for the supplementary question. I believe he has hit the nail on the head. When it comes to inputs, our farmers should not access inputs unless they believe that they can grow a crop that will produce positively and will make them a profit. I do not believe any farmer should access any inputs whether it is available or not. If that crop is not productive and that crop does not make them a profit to allow them to go back on the field, we do certainly have targets.
The targets that we do prepare are based on five metric tonnes per ha. This is where that target will come as a blend of commercial of A1 as well as A2 as well as communal farming. It is a blended target across the board. We do not specifically state one target in one region or in another but across the nation. That is the targets that we got but I would like to resonate the point that I made that farmers should not access inputs if they feel it is not profitable for themselves because they will just burry themselves in debt. Thank you Mr. President Sir.
INSTALLATION OF A PIPELINE TO TRANSMIT WATER FROM
MTSHABEZI DAM TO THE CITY OF BULAWAYO
- HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to inform the House when Government will install a pipeline to transmit water from the Mtshabezi Dam to the City of Bulawayo and other surrounding areas in
Matabeleland South Province.
DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER,
CULTURE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Senator for the question. The Government has already completed the installation of a pipeline that transmits water from Mtshabezi Dam to the City of Bulawayo and other surrounding areas in Matabeleland South. The pipeline runs from Mtshabezi to Mzingwani Dam. The water is then transmitted to Ncema water works where it is treated and pumped to Bulawayo. Seven off takes have been designated to service local communities along the pipeline and two of the off takes are already functional. The five remaining off takes will be completed as and when resources are available.
ASSISTANCE TO FORMER MBADA DIAMONDS WORKERS ON
OUTSTANDING WAGES
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Mines and
Mining Development to explain to the House measures being taken by the Ministry to:-
- assist former workers of Mbada Diamonds to receive their outstanding wages since the latter still cannot access their operating licence despite a ruling to this effect by the Constitutional Court; and
- facilitate the rehiring of former workers of Mbada Diamonds by the Zimbabwe Consolidated Development Company or provision of termination of employment benefits in line with the Labour Court ruling.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): Thank you Mr. President
and thank you Hon. Sen. for the question. If the Constitutional Court ruled as indicated in the question and the directive was not effected, then the applicant to the case should approach the same court for a redress. On the other hand the payment of outstanding wages to workers is a labour case which is under the portfolio of the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare. Also the Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company is a parastatal under the Ministry of Mines and we are not supposed to be giving directives to the parastatal but to play an oversight role. If ever they have issues or where they need guidance or such issues, especially on the employment of employees who were left by Mbada diamonds, they need to take the initiative and approach the Ministry for guidance.
Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): I move that Orders of the
Day Nos. 2 to 7 be stood over until the rest of the Orders have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
COMMITTEE STAGE: RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE ON THE
EDUCATION AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 1B, 2019]
Eighth Order read: Committee: Education Amendment Bill [H. B.
1B, 2019].
Question again proposed.
House in Committee.
On Clause 16:
THE CHAIRPERSON: You will recall that yesterday when we finished we were on Clause 16.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Chair. Maybe I am
getting lost on the procedure. I thought the Minister was going to read because yesterday when he left there were some issues as senators, we wanted amendments to be done. I do not know whether we should
proceed as it is.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. SEN.
MOHADI): In fact when we adjourned yesterday, we were debating Clause 16, that is where we are starting from today.
HON. SEN. CHIEF. NGUNGUMBANE: Hon. Minister, my
comment relates to the issue of semantics. On 68 (b) people with disability; if you look at Clause 1 it says “every school shall”. Clause 2 says “the Secretary shall” but if you refer to Section 22 of the
Constitution it says “the State, all institutions and agencies of
Government at every level must”. If you look at the word “must” and
“shall” pose a lot of questions. From my own understanding the word must causes a legal obligation on the State that should be undertaken. I would propose Hon. Madam Chair that there is similarity in the wording so that the obligations are similar. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVHIMA): I think the Hon. Senator
Chief has indicated that it is just a matter of semantics and in my view the “shall” is as compelling as the “must”, because it is saying this has to be done. It is unlike the other things where we were considering the unavailability of resources, where we were saying “endeavour” which means try but in this particular case the obligation is complete and it says it shall be done. There is no question about it. Thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Whereas I partially agree with the Hon.
Minister, there is also a contradiction on the same clause. If you look at it, it says ‘resources permitting’. It is something which is not measureable. Nobody in this country has ever stood up to say I have got resources which are permitting, even the entire Government. I feel the Ministry is hiding behind a finger that they would always say we do not have resources, even for something which costs less than $1 000 bond. So I thought we need to re-coin this phrase which says ‘subject to availability of resources’. It is an endless statement. We will never have enough resources in this country. I appeal to the Hon. House and the Minister to find a way of putting something which has got a positive future for children with disabilities. I thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVHIMA: This is an issue Hon. Madam Chair
that has been discussed before and where we actually said without that clause or phrase included, it will open a lot of litigation for our schools, because to comprehensively plan for every disability will be impossible. This is why we even said the general infrastructure will be provided, but in some cases we will have to deal on a case by case basis because resources may and will not be available in order to provide comprehensively for every form of disability. This is only saying let us be practical, pragmatic and not tie ourselves to litigation because we cannot say each and every one of the schools in this country will provide for each and every possible form of disability. Thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Just briefly. I want to assist here because it is something which affects me as well as the youngsters. We are not saying all of a sudden when this Act is enacted, every school - even in Mandlambuzi in Beitbridge will be expected to have a comprehensive set up of disability related issues. We are saying for example, if we go to Hingwe School today in Bulilima, every classroom there has steps where a wheelchair cannot get in. every toilet entrance is so narrow that a wheelchair cannot go into the toilet. We are saying perhaps if you may use the term “much effort” will be done that also makes sure that when you go to a school and say look, ‘I think there is no effort which is being made because to adjust this door costs less than $300 bond’. I do not think we will be actually making the Government bankrupt.
We are just saying we are reasonable people, we know what Government can be able to do and not able to do. I am just appealing that we should find another way of configuring this phrase. If you go to Uzumba Maramba Pfungwe today and find the school which was officially opened, perhaps by the Minister Mavhima as a guest speaker applauding whoever funded it - say parents, all of a sudden a student with a disability comes tomorrow and he cannot even get to the
Headmaster’s Office. She cannot even get into the toilet at that school and we are saying if it costs $1 000 to adjust, what is wrong with that, because if you leave it like this - I think it also serves the purpose of those who are interested in having a negative attitude towards the disabled.
I end there and I will not comment again but I have just appealed to say ladies and gentlemen, Hon. Members I appeal for your support. Thank you. Even you Minister, you have to rephrase it in a way that at least gives you the opportunity to run away from responsibility, and also at times to find yourself being pinned down. I thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVHIMA: Thank you Madam Chair. Madam
Chair, the following clauses after Clause 1, they attend to what Hon.
Sen. Khupe is referring to. Section 2 says, the Secretary who is the Chief Administrator of the Ministry shall monitor and enter premises for the purposes of ascertaining whether the rights of people with disabilities are taken into account during teaching and learning and (3) for the purposes of fees approval, the Secretary shall require every registered school to submit in writing how the school shall advance the rights of pupils with disability, which means that within everything that is reasonable, by the way already Hon. Chair, we have a policy that requires every school to provide ramps and accessible ablutions. This is part of what the Secretary will do in order to monitor.
Everything that is reasonable and covering most of the basic disabilities that are encountered on a daily basis will be taken care of through 2 and 3 in this clause of the Bill.
Clause 10 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA), the Senate
adjourned at Three Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 24th September, 2019.