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SENATE HANSARD 06 OCTOBER 2020 VOL 29 NO 56
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th October, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
INVITATION TO A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to inform the Senate that there will be a Roman Catholic Church Service, tomorrow, Wednesday, 7th October, 2020 at 1230 hours in the Senate Chamber. All Catholics and non-Catholic members are invited.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ANNUAL REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2018
Third Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion that this House takes note of the Annual Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission, 2018.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Vice President Mohadi for bringing this motion to the House, the motion on peace and reconciliation. People should be able to live in peace and harmony, even in the homes or in the country. Diaharmony is destructive; no home was built where there is no peace. So, in this instance, for us to rebuild our country, we need to move forward in peace and do not dwell in what happened long back. If we keep on reminding each other of what happened long back, we will not heal those who were wounded. It is very painful what happened in the past but we cannot turn back the clock; it has already happened. We would like to thank our leaders for going to Matabeleland to establish peace with people in Matabeleland. Peace yields progress, so let us move on as a people. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Madam President. I feel delighted when we talk about peace. It helps us to forgive each other. We can take this subject of forgiveness lightly but this is the route of peace. Even in our religion, we are urged to forgive because without forgiveness, we cannot move forward. God forgives us on a daily basis and we are also encouraged to do the same. Even in our families, we should forgive each other. We should forgive our spouses and children because without forgiveness, a home cannot stand. If we cannot forgive in our homes, how can we forgive outside our homes? This motion is important for everyone and cuts across the political divide. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice and views to this motion on peace and reconciliation which was brought here by the Vice President.. This is a Christian nation and this motion affects every Zimbabwean because if there is no peace and reconciliation, then God will not be on our side. I also thank His Excellency President, E. D. Mnangagwa, who saw it fit to create such a commission. This Commission hinders the devil who was taking advantage of the situation which brings tension among people, especially the Gukurahundi issue. The devil was taking advantage of this situation yet this happened a long time ago and we cannot change what happened except to accept it and forgive each other. Since we now have peace and reconciliation, the devil will not be able to cause us to fight each other. This Peace and Reconciliation Commission is not limited to Matabeleland but it is a national commission. Therefore, I would like to urge the people of Zimbabwe to forgive each other in spirit. If you do not want to forgive, it will be between you and God because God also said all of you have sinned but he forgave us and we became his children again. Therefore we should accept each other and forgive each other so that we will start to experience change; God intervenes in our situations. This is a Christian nation.
This is a crucial motion which, looking at this situation, even young people were being used, some of whom do not have institutional memory or historical facts concerning that issue. These are young people who have been saying a lot of things but now it is history because we now have a commission which is aimed at bringing peace and reconciliation to the nation. God has intervened in this situation.
After forgiving each other, you will discover that we will begin to work together as a nation. Even other nations would appreciate the relationship that is among the people of Zimbabwe because there will be peace and forgiveness will prevail among all tribes that are found in Zimbabwe. We will be speaking the same language even if we do not involve other countries but these other countries have their own issues and they forgive each other. However, they expect us to keep grudges against our fellow nationals. These are the few words that I wanted to express. I would also say that I am happy because I understand that peace is important. Forgiveness is important; it brings joy to individuals and the nation. I would like to thank you Madam President for allowing me to air my views. I appreciate our President, His Excellency, I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May all other Hon. Senators who are not debating please put your gadgets on mute.
**HON. SEN. NYATHI: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to say a few words. It is important that there be peace and forgiveness. This allows people to live in harmony. What I would like to say is that in this Senate, we should speak one language and in unity, we are the most senior House between the Houses of Parliament. When we discuss, let us talk about educating our children who are still growing so that they understand what it means to forgive each other and what it means to have peace. It is important that if I sin against someone, I should tell that person that what I have done is wrong. I cannot send someone to seek for forgiveness but I must go as an individual to express my remorse so that I may be forgiven. This is the lesson that we need to teach our children so that things move along well and that our country would have peace.
Young children are so observant. They observe and know a lot of things. When we were growing up, we did not have technology yet nowadays even at ECD when you tell the child something, they ask you why. When we were growing up, we could not ask such questions but would just do what we were told. Children should know and understand because whatever we say, we need to implement such things so that our children will practice those things. Even at church, the first thing that we are taught is that forgiveness is important. We know that God forgives us. Even as we express ourselves, God needs to forgive us. With these few words, I would like to thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
MOTION
ANNUAL REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2019
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion that this House takes note of the Annual Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the year 2019.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
MOTION
ANNUAL REPORT OF THE FIRST SESSION OF THE NINTH PARLIAMENT FOR THE LIAISON AND COORDINATION COMMITTEE
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Annual Report of the First Session of the Ninth Parliament for the Liaison and Coordination Committee.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Madam President, thank you very much. Before I wind up the motion on the Presidential address, I wish to thank sincerely, the following Hon. Senators who contributed to the motion;
Hon Sen. Chirongoma, Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi, Hon. Sen. S. Mpofu, Hon. Sen. A Dube, Hon. Sen. Maluleke, Hon. Sen. M. R. Dube, Hon. Sen. Shumba and Hon. Sen. Mathuthu, Hon. Sen. Hungwe, Hon. Sen. Matiiriram, Hon. Sen. Tsomondo, Hon. Sen. S. K. Moyo, Hon. Sen. Khupe, Hon. Sen. Tongogara, Hon. Sen. Mohadi, Hon. Sen. Gumpo. Mr President, if by any chance I left any other, my apologies.
Mr. President, there were very important issues which were raised in the Presidential Address but not even one Minister came to address the Senate. This is very worrying and disturbing. May I appeal again through you Mr. President, because we have talked about that also when it relates to the Question Time? We hope that in the Second Session of the Ninth Parliament there may be an improvement of the attendance of our Ministers. With those few words, I move that the motion be adopted:
That a respectful address be presented to the President of
Zimbabwe as follows-
May it please you, your Excellency the President: We, the members of Parliament of Zimbabwe, desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech, which you have been pleased to address to address to Parliament.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
THIRD REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS ON DOMESTICATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Third Report of the Thematic Committee on Human Rights on the Domestication of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
Question again proposed.
**HON. SEN. HOHADI: I want to add a few words on this motion. I am looking at the disabled people. They need clean water because we cannot talk about water and people living aside the disabled ones. We have to know that a person who is disabled and a person who is not disabled are just the same. We have to respect each other’s right because being disabled does not mean you are not supposed to be respected. They are just like us.
There is need for them to access clean water. These people are very important in our lives and families. When we are talking about water we are talking about life. Where there is no water there is no life. We are not talking about water alone, we are talking about clean water and vegetation. When we are talking about vegetation, the disabled people also need health, vegetation because that is also important in their lives. We are living with disabled people in our families and communities. There is need for these people to be seen going to schools. In some families the disabled people are not allowed to be seen walking freely - they are always put in closed houses. If they are children they are not allowed to be seen playing freely with others.
As Members of Parliament, we need to urge our communities to respect these peoples’ rights. Those family members who have disabled people do not allow them to go to schools. They do not respect their rights but to tell you the truth, they are just like any other person. They are very important in the family or community. Some other jobs will be done by the disabled people. They need to be taken care of.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Mr. President. I am one person who supported Hon. Khupe who brought this motion to the House. We went around inspecting sources of water and we discovered that the water that is being consumed in towns is not clean. This is a matter of concern because people are consuming dirty water. The water level is now very low. Even our livestock is drinking dirty water. Our women wake up early in the morning going to the boreholes at around 6.00 a.m. Those who get water and those who do not then face the same fate. Livestock also come so that the livestock get water from these water points.
I am becoming emotional, Mr. President, but let me end here. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: For the record, we are debating Order of the Day, Number 7 that is on Human Rights Domestication of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President. When we talk about disabled people, particularly looking at access to clean drinking water, then this is quite a concerning issue because disabled people face a lot of challenges. When a disabled person does not have a child who fetches water for them, then how can they fetch water? So it is important that those who are disabled have tapped or piped water.
In urban areas, water is brought by bowsers. These bowsers are not sensitive to disability issues and disabled people
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The debate is on Order Number 8 which is on disabilities. You may debate later when we come to Number 8. You may take your seat Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS, SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS (SDGs) AND GENDER DEVELOPMENT ON THE ENQUIRY INTO PEOPLE’S ACCESS TO CLEAN, SAFE AND PORTABLE WATER
Eight Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Thematic Committees on Human Rights, Sustainable Development Goals and Gender Development on the enquiry into people’s access to clean, safe and portable water.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: Thank you President of the Senate. This issue, the issue of water, is quite a touching issue. There is no water in urban areas. People receive water that is brought in bowsers at times. Sometimes people queue from the morning until evening. I do not know how this issue can be addressed because we need to prioritise this issue as Hon. Senators. You will discover that when people converge on bowsers, at times there is rowdy behaviour. Sometimes boreholes are vandalised and people end up not getting water. Even in rural areas there is no water. So I do not know how this issue can be addressed. Even our dams have silted, some are drying up. So we need to desilt our dams and scoop them so that when the rain season comes, then our dams can receive a substantial amount of water.
People need water because water is crucial, water is life. No one can live without water. So my request is that Government should make sure that Government provides dams and boreholes. More boreholes should be sunk for the benefit of the people. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MATIIRIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity so that I can add a few words on this motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Khupe which is a very important motion for the country of Zimbabwe. I also thank the Committees which travelled with SDGs, Gender Commission and Human Rights assessing the issue of safe water to the Zimbabweans in towns and rural areas.
Mr. President, this motion is a very important motion because it is on the issue of water and we all know that water is life. Mr. President, without water, there is nothing which can move properly. Every person needs clean water. When we travelled during the Eighth Parliament, we also faced the issue of water because lack of clean water causes a lot of different problems which cause lack of peace in the families. We have child headed families, when there is no water at the family there will be problems. We expect these children to grow up well because they are the future leaders and future parents but they will end up facing many problems especially in rural areas including even the towns.
May the Government intervene, Mr. President, so that water can be availed in all areas in the country. It is unfortunate that the Committees only travelled in towns. Even in rural areas it is difficult. We have clinics where mothers are waiting to deliver. There are disabled people who cannot walk or touch anything who are in these areas. Without water, there is nothing which is proper because we know that where there is a woman, there must be water. We also have child headed families, when these kids reach home they find out that there is no water and they end up travelling long distances to fetch water and end up indulging in bad activities.
We also have the elderly who do not have kids to send to fetch water. It will be difficult for them to get water. I appeal to the Government to intervene on the issue of water so that the country moves well because water is important, water is life. I want to thank these Committees who went around and managed to see the situation on the ground. I wish the Committee would have managed to travel to all the ten provinces because all these regions are faced with water challenges. There are some areas which fall under Region 4 and 5 where there is little rainfall and people end up going to streams to fetch water in unprotected wells.
There are many things which flow into these streams. These people dig these unprotected wells to fetch water and they end up facing many problems and diseases. We also have councils which do not have enough water – they rely on water from the dams and these dams do not have good holding capacity because of siltation. Therefore, there is need for de-siltation of dams. I support this motion and I support this report. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. I just want to add my voice on the Report of the Thematic Committee on SDGs. Honestly, on SDGS, we should really expect Zimbabwe which is a modern, fairly, well educated society to be moving towards supply of something as simple as water. My experience - we went as far as Mwenezi. We met people in the community. It was surprising to find that people move for kilometres to fetch water. People were said to be preparing to go and fetch water in this day and age of WhatsApp. It is important that our institutions work such that we work professionally to ensure that we supply the relevant needs to a community and the first and foremost need, wherever people settle, there must be water. They have to dig a well or something and that well must be well treated.
It is unfortunate that even here in Harare, you will be shocked that if you take water in a container, within a week, you will see green algae and we simply think it is something that will pass. I think the whole world has stopped people from praying when COVID-19 came, not because they want or they are above God, but they are trying to organise themselves to fight COVID. Why can we not organise ourselves as Zimbabweans to ensure that some of these supplies are done professionally with the real effort that Government and other institutions help each other to deliver? To find a clinic that has been built with zero water – the toilet is there but with no water. It is a shame on us. We are simply building something and say people should solve it themselves without anything.
We must learn to be leaders who ensure that when we talk, we talk the truth and when we discuss, we discuss something that will end up happening. It is unfortunate that this country has been divided to them against us. There is always some argument that you belong there but I think what is critical is for all of us to work together. While we pray, we need to get together and ensure that we go into our standards and norms and ensure that we also get into a culture of ensuring that we protect our wells. I think we have a saying in Shona that we do not want someone who urinates in a wle– ukanzi uritsotsi, ukanzi hauna kunaka unonzi urinhundira mutsime. We do not want people who spoil everything that we want because tsime is everywhere where everyone goes to drink.
So, we must make sure that everyone has something to do. I think there is one area which we are not looking at Mr. President that there is a minimum cost to water. Everyone needs a certain amount of water. As a country, I think initially we used to have it but I think there are certain communities that will not get any water at all in a day. There is a minimum that we should deliver as a Government and as a municipality and any organisation in any institution, there must be a standard tap where other people who are not able to get water can go and fetch clean water.
Today, we mainly have boreholes. Even here in town, we have boreholes which belongs to NGOs and they are not properly maintained. We go into rural areas, they are not properly maintained. We are also not doing much Mr. President to educate our communities that once a borehole or a well is built, it is for them. They must also learn to collect something that will maintain those boreholes. We are only a community amongst ourselves.
The life of dependency on anyone else must die and we must work hard as a community to ensure that as communities, we have different communities and different resources, we cannot be beaten by Israel which does better farming in a dessert whereas we have land. We had several droughts but we must organise ourselves to ensure that we at least meet 80% of the expected SDG on water.
I want to ask our Ministers also to be more diligent especially the Minister of Water to ensure that the supply and the extraction of water is well protected and well managed. What we lack I think is management of our institutions which is very weak and we need to work on it. Politicians might not be so correct but institutions must be managed and it is only institutions that we work on that will ensure that we deliver each SDG and mainly the water aspect. I thank you Mr. President.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. The motion that was brought to the House by Hon. Sen. Khupe is quite touching. For everyone to live and to have a dissent livelihood, it is important for them to have water. Even wild animals need water. Animals like tortoise cannot live without water. This is quite touching because even when dams dry, wild animals also suffer. At the end of the day, you discover that most of these wild animals are suffering and we need to understand that water is like gold. It is precious. In Bulawayo, I live next to a river and this river is now becoming a dumping site where people throw away dead dogs, even those who abort dump fetuses on this river. We use have no choice we use that water for washing and consumption. There is nothing that we can do about that because this water at times is dirty. At times we find a donor intervening but you discover that councilors are selling land where there are boreholes that were sunk by donors. You will find long queues at these boreholes, which means people are in dire need of water. People are now chasing each other away at boreholes if they notice that you do not come from that locality; they now give each other boundaries to fetch water. Even if bowsers come, they will scramble for water and some come from faraway places. Some will be beaten by criminals on their way from fetching water. I do not know how we can address this as a capable Government.
We need to come up with a position because it does not help when a donor sinks a borehole then the council sells that land to someone. People are really suffering; some even approached me as their senator, expressing concern over that issue of councilors selling land where a borehole is sunk. I ended up telling them that I will engage the councilors so that they explain why they did that. When I met the councilors, they said they bought the borehole yet we all know that the borehole was sunk by donors. It is not right that people suffer yet NGOs would have intervened. I do not know what should be done. Right now there are areas which we identified where boreholes are supposed to be sunk. The rain season is by the corner, so we need to work together so that enough boreholes are sunk. We need to identify space in different localities so that water is available in different localities for people not to walk long distances in search of water, for example Nketa and other locations. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion on challenges faced by people in the rural areas, especially the vulnerable groups like those in prisons. Mr. President, even here in Harare, looking at Chikurubi female maximum prison, there is a challenge of water. This water challenge is affecting prison officers and the inmates. When the water comes they scramble for it and seeing a senior prison officer in the same queue with inmates and other junior officers is a shameful thing. Therefore, there is competition for water because water is life, we cannot live without it.
When it comes to inmates, they live in their numbers, women for that matter. Women need more water than men and there will be older women who cannot compete with the young ones. There are also young women with babies because there are babies being born there. They need to wash napkins, bath and all those things but water is scarce, it becomes a problem Mr. President. Chikurubi is not a good place because there is no water to use and there is also a challenge of hunger. They also do not have vegetables because there is no water.
There is need to sink boreholes, one for officers, one for inmates and the other for the workers who work in the fields so that they have enough food in order for us to fulfill the SDG - Right to Food. I think we should focus on them a little bit because it is a human right. It is abuse for someone not to have access to water. It is futile if we do not drill boreholes. We once discussed about it in our Committee on Human Rights on how we can have boreholes drilled at Chikurubi, especially looking at women. It is a challenge for men too because it is human rights abuse. It is in our Constitution that we should have access to clean, safe and portable water. That is not what is happening at Chikurubi. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 46TH PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN NAMIBIA
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 46th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held in the Swakopmund Entertainment Centre, Swakopmund, Namibia from 10th to 17th December, 2019.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
MOTION
DISCHARGE OF CHILDREN UNDER CHILD CARE FACILITIES
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need to alleviate challenges associated with the early discharge of youths from child care facilities.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion which was presented by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. She carefully looked and saw that it is good to have children looked after even after they reach 18 years. I do not think there is anyone who ever thought about it. We see a lot of children, especially in this COVID 19 pandemic, where the street kids were rounded up from the streets and taken to shelter homes. This is because people realised that children are in trouble. However, my question is what happens after that. Are they going to get aged in those shelter homes? Hon. Tongogara realised that there is an issue which needs to be solved. If a child is send away from the shelter home where he or she was comfortable in what will happen? Where would they go? Some of them do not have families. Some youths have relatives but the relatives do not care about them. That is how they ended up in those shelter homes. It is because no one is willing to look after them. So, when they leave those shelter homes, how do they eke out a living?
I looked at it carefully and realised that we did not handle this issue properly. As we live, we know that we look after children in our homes and includes boys. When they are mature, they come and tell us that they want to get married. When they get married, they do not remain in that home. We look for a place for them to stay with their family. In our culture we say “kupegesa” where we give a person a home because they realised that married men cannot continue to stay in the parents home. What happens is that they start by constructing a house. The mother would go and look for an aunt. The aunt would give them kitchen utensils for them to start their home. When I looked at that, I realised that in our Shona culture we do that but now we have taken these children and we have looked after them. When they turn 18 we just say go and look after yourselves. Where do they stay? What do they eat?
We have been outwitted by the older generation because they realised that. When someone has not harvested anything from the fields, they would give them food. When someone is above 18, we do not even look at where they will go because we have not given them a house or a stand. We should look at the issue closely that when they are past 18 years, we give them a home. Without that, if we tell them to go, they will go into the streets because they do not know where to start from. This should be really looked into. It was proper that there be a place where they go and stay. Even if they are given stands, they do not have the material to build a house. We should give them stands and construct even cabins so that they can go and start from somewhere.
When children leave those shelter homes, it is not a good thing. This motion is very good. We really urge our Government to investigate this issue. When these children reach 18 years, they should be given places to go so that they will be able to fend for themselves. With these few words, I want to thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th October, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON. SEN. MKHWEBU, the Senate adjourned at Nineteen Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.