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SENATE HANSARD 11 FEBRUARY 2019 29-17
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 11th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
COLLECTION OF ICT TABLETS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to inform all
Hon. Senators who have not yet collected their ICT tablets to do so.
Officers from the Information, Communication Technology (ICT) Department who are distributing these ICT tablets are stationed in Room Number 311, third floor.
ACCESSING OF DOCUMENTS RELATED TO PARLIAMENT
BUSINESS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I also wish to advise
Hon. Senators that as from Tuesday, 18th February, 2020 onwards, Votes and Proceedings and other documents pertaining to Parliamentary Business will be sent electronically for access from their ICT tablets. –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 45TH PLENARY
ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, held at the Joachim Chissano International Conference Centre in Maputo, Mozambique.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President.
Compliments of the season to you and all Hon. Senators.
I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for moving this motion, including the delegation which accompanied her to Maputo,
Mozambique. SADC is a very important Forum where important issues are discussed, which issues also help our country. When she moved this motion, she was worried about the issue of our subscriptions as a country that we are lagging behind. She urged Government to be up to date because other countries are managing to pay their subscriptions. Payment of these subscriptions helps us to continue to attended such fora where we learn a lot of things which we will also teach others.
We learn a lot of things at such fora because we meet other
Members of Parliament from different countries where we share ideas. So I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for attending this Forum and hope that our Government is going to pay all the subscriptions. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND HEALTH
FINANCING IN AFRICA
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and Health Financing in African, held in Brazzaville, Congo from 11th to 12th July, 2019.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President and
compliments of the season to all Senators. On the highlights of his presentation, Major General Nyambuya said that Parliamentarians should engage in a dialogue about safe abortion because as
Parliamentarians, when we start to engage in those issues we argue but it is a thing that is happening in our country. Women are dying because of unsafe abortions. Some doctors said many women come with sticks inserted inside them whilst they are trying to abort which is not safe and this leads to death. Many of them do not come in time to get help from the doctors.
General Nyambuya was also touched, so he said we should engage each other so that people have safe abortions. Some are raped and they do not have access to safe abortions. As a result, it takes long and in the end some give birth to children as a result of rape which is very unfortunate. I think if people are allowed to engage in safe abortions, it means everyone will be safe because many people die and the State loses a lot of money through unsafe abortions.
I know as women Parliamentarians we argue a lot when it comes to safe abortions but when men also see it and support the unsafe abortions it helps if it is an issue that is talked about. So I thought it is important to add my voice that safe abortion should be allowed because a lot of people are dying. We have a lot of doctors in here and I think they come across many women who are dying because of engaging in unsafe abortions.
With these few words, I just wanted to say these words so that people understand when they are reading the Hansard; they would understand that people are dying because of unsafe abortions. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. I
would like to congratulate you for the year 2020 as well as all the
Senators. I would like to thank the Zimbabwean delegation that was led by the Deputy President of Senate and those who went to Congo- Brazzaville for that important meeting.
I will also support that important meeting with a few words. I am very impressed when a Zimbabwe delegation attends such an important summit where they meet other Parliamentarians to debate on issues that affect people’s lives such as HIV and AIDS. Those are very critical issues because we know that disease has claimed a lot of lives but Africa has now realised that we should put our heads together.
I was impressed by the Deputy President of Senate’s opening remarks where he outlined how Africa was separated and demarcated as one of the leading continents in poverty as well as all the conflicts to do with boundaries in Africa and other problems. That is a very good thing to all of us as Zimbabweans because when we want to address such issues it is important to know such a background.
I would like to thank the Zimbabwean delegation for representing us well at such a summit. We should take very seriously all the issues that were discussed there so that they uplift the livelihoods of our people. We may have no money, but if we unite as Parliamentarians it will be important because those are issues that were agreed to by many countries. All those issues require funds but I know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. One day we will have resources because those issues are important to people’s livelihoods.
I would like to congratulate that delegation that represented us well at that summit. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. J. D. HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President. I also would like to add my voice in congratulating people who went to represent us in Congo- Brazzaville where there were many other delegates. Our delegation is very much appreciated for doing well in Congo- Brazzaville. I am not sure when you gather to deliberate on HIV and AIDS, how do you see it when we look at Africa as a whole because it is something which affects a lot of people yet there is no treatment.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Senator, you
address the Chair.
*HON. SEN. J. D. HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President. I was now behaving as if I am from Chivi – [Laughter] - Thank you Madam President for reminding me of the rules that we have to observe here. My point is - when people deliberate on this scourge especially when other people in Africa also gather to deliberate on an incurable disease, we have doctors in this Parliament; we have those doctors who are known for treating yet they are not able to treat such a disease. How do you fail to treat such a disease? We have to consider the history from the Bible. Incurable diseases were put by God as a punishment to people, it was a result of his anger. When an important event happens in the country we must think along those lines. Some of us went to war and in most instances God allows calamities as a form of punishment because he will be angry. We have to look up to God to find cure for such diseases and ask for God’s mercy, let us think along those lines.
Let us not get stuck on failing to get cure but let us consider God’s views.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am not sure, are you
saying when people gather at Congo Brazzaville, we must ask them to pray for solutions? So may views come into play and let us not deliberate on that.
*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President. I would like to greet all Senators for making it to this New
Year and to thank God that we are all here. As you are aware Madam
President, we met with Hon. Sen. Femai, the Hon. Deputy President of Senate and other Hon. Senators. I realise that we forgot to invite Hon. Sen. Hungwe to also air his views along those lines making reference to the Bible and religion. We invited a lot of other important dignitaries but we forgot to invite Hon. Sen. Hungwe.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Please address the
Chair.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President. I also felt as if I am in Chivi but my point is there were few members of Senate and Members of Parliament who went to deliberate on HIV/AIDS because a lot of countries cited economic challenges as the problem of their failure to attend. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Hungwe for pointing out the issue of divine intervention. We need divine intervention, the President and the First Lady also came to support that issue. A lot of views were expressed and indeed the Deputy President of the Senate made a very good address; that was a good impression. Hon. Sen. Femai also made a remark on how we can get funding for that disease.
It might be overtaken by Corona virus but we have a mammoth task. I learnt a lot from Hon. Sen. Hungwe’s remarks that we should not focus on financial issues only.
Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira debating looking at Hon. Sen.
Hungwe.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Address the Chair Hon.
Chief Charumbira.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I am addressing the Chair
although I am making reference to Hon. Sen. Hungwe. We cannot do away with divine or religion intervention in terms of seeking solution for HIV/AIDS. If we believe in what the Bible says, we must remember that it is important to seek God’s wisdom, especially in times of need and trouble. I then appeal to my Hon. Senators and doctors that even if you do your work- I think it is also important to ask people to pray. I also heard some people referring to a Nigerian prophet by the name T.B. Joshua, I heard a doctor testifying that they went to T.B. Joshua and that is where they were healed of diabetes. I want to thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Debate to resume: Wednesday 12th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE PLIGHT OF PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES AND CHALLENGES FACED BY WOMEN
AND GIRLS WITH DISABILITIES IN ZIMBABWE
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the plight of people with disabilities and challenges faced by women and girls with disabilities in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Madam President, I want to thank the Lord for he has given me the chance to see the New Year, 2020. I want to thank the Committee which oversees the plight of people living with disabilities, especially women and the girl child. In this Senate I see that disability varies.
As I stand here, I live with disability but people do not see it. I say that I am disabled because I was not born with these spectacles but was issued these spectacles due to disability. When they were looking at the challenges of women living with disability, a lot of us – especially women are living with disability. Disability varies but the Committee came across challenging issues. I have looked at wearing spectacles but there are some women who are blind.
In the National Assembly, we have Hon. R. Mpofu who lives with disability and her husband accompanies her everywhere yet most husbands shun their wives. So I want to thank and salute the husband for standing with her because we have many men who cannot stand by women living with disability - they run away from them but most women are very loving.
I read a story of a woman who was married to a man living with disability. She loved him because he was blind and because she had money, she consulted doctors as to the reason why her husband was born blind. The doctors conducted medical investigations on the husband and she sought medication for the husband and he was cured from the blindness. When the husband gained his sight – he started noticing other women and saw that they were more beautiful compared to his ugly wife. The husband then started going out with the beautiful women.
The wife was really troubled and asked him, what had gone wrong? The husband said, “Thank you so much for making me gain my sight. I did not know that there were so many beautiful women in the world”. So as women, we have a lot of challenges. When a woman gives birth to a child living with disability, you will find that women bear the challenge on their own because the husbands would have run away claiming that in their clan, they do not give birth to people living with disabilities. So they start blaming the women – it is a challenge that many women come across even though they are not disabled.
I came across other people who have challenges of hearing impairments. The women were saying that they do not find anyone to help them when they go to hospitals in order for the nurses to understand what service they want. One deaf woman said that when she went to the hospital to deliver – no one assisted her because they did not understand her. So she ended up delivering on her own because the nurses could
not understand her language – so it is a challenge. Many of these challenges are being faced by women because the husbands will not be around to assist. Had the husband accompanied his wife to the hospital, probably he would have communicated with the nurses in sign language but the husband will be at home drinking beer or looking for other women.
So these are some of the challenges that women living with disabilities face. I thought that it would be good to add one or two voices so that people know that we were listening to their grievances and the grievances were recorded in the Hansard. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President, I
stand in support of this motion on women living with - I fail to get a suitable ChiShona word to explain myself because I do not want to say
‘disability’ but I will use that word - although it is very painful for me to use that word.
The Constitution that brings us here clearly stipulates the work of
Parliament in Section 119 (1) which states that Parliament should safeguard the Constitution. What is in the Constitution? We do not have a choice and must adhere to the Constitution. Our Constitution has a lot of sections that remind us of what we are supposed to do for people living with disabilities. The topic is about women but once we have disability in the home, whether of a child or the husband – it ends up being the woman’s problem because of the adage that in order for a home to be stable it is because of women.
Madam President, our Constitution lists a lot of things that we have to do as Government in order for the disabled to live a good life. The main aim of our Constitution is that we respect each other as equals without putting anyone at a disadvantage. In this country, 20% of people have a form of disability but as Government, we do not have a deliberate policy on disability especially on their rights. I challenge this House that we are always fighting on trivial issues without fighting for citizens’ rights especially for those who are disabled. Why am I saying so Madam President? Since the inception of our Constitution in 2013 up to now, all Government buildings are not accessible for people who are disabled. Even new plans for houses, they do not have facilities which are user friendly to people who are disabled. We are failing people who are disabled. It is not surprising that most of us here will be failing to access this Parliament because of disability. It is important that
Government attends to this issue as a matter of urgency. Here in Harare, I have just seen one bank which has a rump for use by the disabled people who use wheelchairs – that is a private player but the Government which is supposed to be leading is failing. We are not discriminating against people who are disabled.
All disability ends up being a problem for all women. Men run away when there is a disability at home. As Government, we do not have a policy on providing shelter for the disabled. Some people attribute disability to being bewitched. They are chased away from their rental homes because they are disabled. As Government, we do not have a quota of houses or stands that is reserved for the disabled. Even at schools, women with disability and those that they are taking care of face difficulties because there are no schools in their area which are conducive for the disabled children. Out of ten schools, it would be good to have at least one that admits disabled children. This will make life easier for them. If we say that shop or that school is for the disabled people – it looks like discrimination. Let us make sure that the schools that we have currently can accommodate people who are disabled. This is not being provided for in this country.
I do not want to say much but I would like to challenge the
Government that everyone is equal and we are doing the people’s will. If we are forgetting 20% of the population and we are not listening to them, we are not following the Constitution of our country which gives us power to sit in this House as Hon. Senators. We are not protecting the Constitution. We must make sure that the Constitution is being followed.
To my fellow Senators, the challenge this year is make it a challenge to Government to take care of people who are disabled. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: First of all, I would like to greet all the Hon. Senators in this House and I would also like to congratulate you Mr. President that you are here this year.
I would like to contribute to the report which was brought by
Hon. Sen. S. Ncube. I am one of the people who went around with Hon. Sen. Ncube to look at the way disabled people live. We did not meet disabled women only but we saw men, young girls and boys who are disabled too. What I saw showed that as Government, we do not care for our people. We do not care about the disabled people. If you listen to the stories that they told us, you can tell that there is somewhere where we are missing it. We are burying live people.
The way these people are living is deplorable. Some are locked inside and they are not allowed to go outside. The people who lock in the disabled in live in a society that has other people who do not go and report to the police about such happenings. All of us here know people who are locked inside but we keep quiet like there is nothing happening we know that people are being detained because they are disabled. This is very painful. Some of these were not born like that but they were injected with wrong injections. I met a certain man in Gweru – we grew up together and I was surprised to see him on a wheelchair. I asked him what had happened and he told me that he had TB and he was given a wrong prescription that affected his spinal code. He was a teacher by profession. Although he did not have a certificate in education, he was teaching people who were passing but now he is selling airtime. No one wants him at any work but he is someone who is normal.
If the Government could look closely, these people who are living with disability are very intelligent more than many of us here. I have not seen a dull person who is disabled. They know what they are doing. Our Government is not looking into their lives especially those from social welfare. We hear that they are going around homes but they are not looking at people with disabilities. If the Government could start a programme to look at those people because they went to schools and some of them are degreed but they are selling airtime on roads.
In this Parliament, that is why people who sit on those chairs do Government business but we are not handling these people well. Our elders say you laugh at a disabled person when you are dead. We should not laugh at these people because they help us a lot in this country.
Mr. President, I still want to go back to Government that has to look at people who are living with disability. The way they are living- I am surprised in the streets they are not able to run away from council police or from ZRP. You can see them being dragged to the Charge Office with their carts yet this person is doing his own things to earn a living but no one looks at that. Considerations are not made that this person is disabled when they are being arrested.
I want to encourage Government that it looks at disabled people. When we were going around some areas in the country, we saw that these people are not having a good life. Very few disabled people are loved by their relatives and a lot of them are not liked. If you go to Jairos Jiri, you are told that this person was just dumped here. We found him in a plastic 17 years ago and now he is doing A level; he is very good in school. That child who was picked in a plastic Mr. President, what kind of life will he have when told about how he was found? Someone says that his/her child had a disabled hand, threw that child away and then that child is taken care of by strangers.
Our Government should be very strict on people who dump children. Even the child who is not disabled you cause the disability when the child grows up not knowing his/her parents. I just wanted to say these few words and some of the things that we were seeing are disheartening. It does not happen in a country which has a legislature like ours, which has people who come and sit in this House and come from different rural areas that has people with disabilities. Mr. President, with those few words, I want to say- let this year be the year of changing things and we will look at the people’s lives on how they are living as Government.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for this
time and congratulating you that we have met again in 2020 and all
Senators - we thank our God. I stood up to say some words about this motion brought by Sen. Ncube. My friends, it is disheartening that we talk about the issue of our relatives who are disabled. Some have spoken and I want to add on what they said that women are very good people - they live with disability and also have another burden of taking care of their husbands.
If you look closely, we have Mr. Mpofu and Mrs. Mpofu in the National of Assembly is blind. There are very few men who are able to take care of their disabled wives. Women and girls who live with disability – as a family, all of us here we are the arm of Government. I hear others saying that Government has to do certain things but we are all supposed to make laws which protect the disabled people.
If you look at the cars and buses, there are no places for disabled people to sit. There is no respect given to disabled people in buses. We need to make sure that there are cars and buses that are made in a way that they are is user friendly to disabled people.
Let me tell you a story. I was coming from Chinhoyi to Karoi. I was stopped and this woman had no hands. It was a struggle for her to get into the car. She had to be assisted to get into my car.
I drove this woman and I was asking myself how she was travelling. I asked myself how her husband lives with this woman and how she breastfeeds. I do not want to talk about how she handles her husband without hands. You might laugh but it is so sad. When she got off, she had her bag. She asked me that I put it on her neck. I just put the bag on her neck and she left with her bag. What is the Government doing for those people? We need to look for ways of taking care of those people.
I come back to the woman we have in Parliament, the Honourable Member of Parliament who is blind but in her constituency she was voted to be a Member of Parliament. I respect the people of that constituency for voting her in. We have different parties, we compete.
If you are normal, would you want to stand and remove that person from office? That person is supposed to get into office uncontested. We might fight for positions but it is very painful.
A disabled child is a burden to the mother but how does the mother take care of them? During the holiday, I was in Dzivarasekwa. I saw one woman with her child who is dumb and the child is always following behind the mother. I asked the woman and she said she has another child doing Form 4 and another one who is in Form 1. She said this one was giving her problems. She was failing to get food to fend for this child because the father is not always available. I told her that I was going to Parliament, I have my colleagues who live with disability who know where you can get assistance. I talked to Hon. Khupe to meet with this woman. She saw this woman and managed to get people who are now helping the woman. As Government, we need to look for plans to help disabled people.
Men should contribute something to thank that husband who is taking care of Hon. Mpofu who is blind. That will be an encouragement to the husband if he knows that other men are seeing that he is taking care of his wife well. As the arm of Government, we should put in place very good laws for people who live with disability that they are taken care of. I do not have much to say but it is disheartening. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th February, 2020.
MOTION
REMOVAL OF ILLEGAL SANCTIONS IMPOSED ON ZIMBABWE
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the unconditional and immediate removal of the illegal economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th February, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty One minutes to
Four o’clock p.m.