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SENATE HANSARD 11 July 2017 26-66
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 11th July, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
DEATH OF HON. SEN. ALPHINA JUBA
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: It is with
profound sorrow that I have to inform the Senate of the death of Hon.
Sen. Alphina Juba, Senator for Matabeleland North Province on Sunday, 9th July, 2017. I invite Hon. Senators to rise and observe a moment of silence in respect of the late Hon. Senator.
All Hon. Senators observed a minute of silence.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 25th July, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: Thank you very much Madam
President. Allow me to wind up this motion which was in reply to the
Presidential Speech. Madam President, we witnessed some debate in this House which was quite robust, constructive and indeed many constructive and useful contributions were made by members across the floor and on both sides of the House.
I want to thank all Hon. Members for having participated in this particular debate. In particular, let me thank Hon. Sen. Mavhunga, Hon.
Sen. Chimbudzi, Hon. Sen. Mumvuri, Hon. Sen. Mawire, Hon. Sen.
Machingaifa, Hon. Sen. Murwira, Hon. Sen. Maluleke, Hon. Sen.
Mashavakure, Hon. Sen. Chief Chiduku, Hon. Sen. Musaka, Hon. Sen.
Mohadi, Hon. Sen. Bhobho, Hon. Sen. Goto, Hon. Sen. Matiirira and Hon. Sen. Makwarimba.
Madam President, it is with regret and actually very sad that I would like to register and I am sure I speak on behalf of the other Hon. Senators here; I want to register our displeasure, our dismay and indeed deep regret that no Ministers came to respond to this very good debate which ensued in the House. It is my hope that this point is going to be noted as one of the biggest disappointments in so far as Senators are concerned. We hope the Executive is going to take very seriously the contributions which are made in this august Senate by the Hon. Senators as pointed out in the debate. I hope it will not happen again in the Fifth Session. On that note Madam President, I would like to move that the motion be adopted.
Motion that a respectful address be presented to the President of
Zimbabwe as follows:
May it please you, Your Excellency the President:
We, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe, desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament - put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 40TH PLENARY SESSION OF THE SADC
PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held in Harare, Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. I
would want to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi, the mover of the motion on the report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum which was held in Harare, Zimbabwe. In the report, a lot of issues were touched on – issues that are beneficial to all the countries. It was important because the entire SADC gathered in Harare and came up with such a position.
The meeting was held from 3rd to 15th November, 2016. Mention was made of tuberculosis and diabetes. These are problems that we are currently facing and they are not problems that are only found in Zimbabwe, but SADC adopted such motions and observed that they affected the majority of the population in the region. They sat down and came up with ways in which to eradicate tuberculosis and diabetes.
They also spoke about agriculture which is the bedrock of the
region. Zimbabwe is lucky that we have had sufficient rainfall. We would want to thank our Government for having introduced the Command Agriculture, through Hon. Dr. Made, the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. This was a resounding success. We are aware that a hungry man is an angry man and the exact opposite will happen because of the bountiful food in the country. Families will live harmoniously and people will not spend a lot of time going all over looking for food from their neighbours to sustain themselves. Zimbabwe is proud for this programme that was brought by the Government. We have done very well and we are now among the elite in terms of having successfully carried out the programme of Command Agriculture.
I believe that as regards the issue of diabetes and tuberculosis, we should create awareness among our people so that they become enlightened about the dangers of such diseases. Ordinary people especially those in the rural areas should be informed of the signs and symptoms of tuberculosis and diabetes because some even succumb to death unaware that they suffer from such ailments. We should give awareness to the majority of our people so that we do not lose our populace unnecessarily.
I thank SADC for having taken time to debate this motion on tuberculosis and diabetes. I want to thank the same meeting for thanking the Zimbabwean Government for successfully hosting the meeting. As a country, we need to follow up on the recommendations that were made and if there is need for research to be done, let our universities look into these issues and carry out further research on issues like tuberculosis and diabetes in order to ensure that the two diseases are brought under control or completely eradicated. With these few words, I thank you Madam President.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th July, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NON-ESTABLISHMENT
OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Madam President, I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. J. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th July, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Madam President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th July, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. BHEBE: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to add my voice on the report tabled in this Senate. I want to thank the member who brought this motion Hon. Sen. Timveos and the seconder Hon. Sen. Masuku. Madam President, I am one of the members of the Committee on HIV and AIDS and I want to add my voice since the other members have already spoken a lot on this issue. One thing that really touched me when we were visiting higher learning institutions is that most of the children were not happy because they are not being given grants anymore and this make them vulnerable and even fail to pay some of the things they need for their studies. My wish is that Government must intervene and pay the grants so that the students will be able to assist themselves during their time of study. They were saying this leads them into prostitution for it enables them to earn a living.
As a Committee, we recommend that this should be given a priority because this is one of the things that cause the spread of HIV and AIDS especially in people aged between 15 and 24. It is our desire as a Committee that the grants are paid so that the students will be able to sustain themselves without engaging in immoral behaviour.
The other thing that they highlighted which causes them to have unprotected sex is that the condoms given to them freely are not of good quality. Our recommendation is that outreach programmes be carried out and students taught that it is not only about the use of condoms but to value their future and their lives. When their parents take them to colleges, the main reason is for them to advance their careers and become better parents in the future.
I wish if outreach programmes could be carried out so that the college students are educated on how best they can handle their future.
During the outreaches, they also indicated that they look for blessers. This shocked us as we are also parents and I asked myself that if other students at colleges are looking for blessers what more of our very own children. The Committee recommends that Government must assist and intervene in the way these students are living in these higher learning institutions.
I do not have much to say since other Hon. Senators have already spoken on this motion, but my wish is that; let us not concentrate on schools and colleges because there are so many people out there who are affected by the HIV and AIDS pandemic. It is our wish as a Committee that we go to mines and other areas where these issues are rampant. It is our wish that we could visit such places and educate them especially on the importance of valuing their lives.
It is not that when we try to educate them, we are not concerned about their living conditions. Our major concern is their livelihood and if we are given an opportunity to go as a Committee, especially to the mines and other busy areas, I think this might be a way of eradicating the HIV and AIDS pandemic if we work in collaboration with the National AIDS Council (NAC). We should not encourage them to use protection only but also to value their lives so that they can have a better future. My predecessors have spoken a lot on this issue, therefore I will not say much. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion on HIV and AIDS. On the report on HIV and AIDS in institutions, first and foremost, I would want to thank the mover of this motion Hon. Sen.
Timveos seconded by Hon. Sen. Masuku and all those members of the
Committee who contributed. I am also a member of that particular Committee.
This is an important issue which can make or break the country. It also helps us as parents to know about our children’s state of affairs as they are in these institutions of higher learning. It also helps us to come up with ways in which we are able to sustain them and hence contain this pandemic. We thank NAC for going to all these institutions and various places to impart knowledge on the prevention of HIV and AIDS. In certain institutions that we visited, we visited various institutions but did not go round the length and breadth of the country due to insufficient resources. The institutions that we called on, we were touched and pained that children of that particular age could be so knowledgeable on various styles of sexual intercourse. We even have children who are not ashamed of specifically admitting that they indulge in sexual activities using a particular style so that they are paid $50.00 infront of dignitaries such as elders, a practice that is contrary to the dictates of our African culture. This happened in Ngundu and the traditional leaders were quite taken aback.
Our children, because of lust are now doing this. They openly admitted that they will have unprotected sex and do a particular style when a person offers them $50.00 or $100.00. Once the man who has been away for three months indulges in this extra-marital affair gets to his matrimonial home as is the case with cross border truck drivers, the man indulges in sexual intercourse with his wife and infects her in the process – we were touched by this. We also interviewed those drivers in Beitbridge, a certain old man proposed for legislators to come up with a policy that allows the truck drivers to be accompanied by their wives because they travel for three months or so. They even indicated the fact that they spend a lot of time waiting for their goods to be cleared by Customs Immigration. As human beings, they do not have a choice but to indulge in unprotected sexual intercourse with the children who will be hiding in the bushes.
The drivers also informed us that it is the children who come knocking on their windows when it gets dark. Once a girl approaches them, they indulge in unprotected sex for the duration of the journey from Beitbridge to Chirundu. Despite the measures that are being put in place by NAC and Say What to ensure they eradicate HIV and AIDS, donors are trying to ensure that people become aware of the pandemic.
We realised that this type of behaviour is retrogressive to the efforts being made.
We went to Bulawayo and students were complaining that lecturers are also requesting sexual favours in order for the student to obtain a pass in their studies. These lecturers indulge in unprotected sex with these students, hence the scourge of HIV and AIDS will not be eradicated. Some students at Midlands State University said they preferred flavoured condoms. I was surprised as to why they would require them and that they would indulge in unprotected sex should they fail to secure flavoured condoms.
This HIV and AIDS issue is quite important. We should get funding as a Committee to complete our visits. Government should obtain grants as most students said they were in that position due to the fact that they failed to raise money for their sustenance. Their parents only raise money through brewing opaque beer or selling of livestock hence the parents cannot afford to give their children extra money for tuck. The Government should assist these children by paying them grants. Let us not rubber stamp certain things without taking measures. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa is here. Children are now indulging in early sexual activities because of poverty. We appreciate that times are hard but if possible, do something about their accommodation and grants.
Our children at the local universities and tertiary institutions are indulging in illicit affairs with elderly men fit to be their grandfathers. They will not turn them down because of their impressive cars and the men have sex with them. The grandparents who are looking after the grandchildren are using the late parent’s pension benefits to ensure the children go to school. They are unable to be given pocket money and as a result, they are indulging in sexual intercourse to sustain themselves. This is painful Hon. Minister.
My first child went to the University of Zimbabwe. In the past, it used to be better because there were grants that were being given to students and our children would not be so immoral. We are the
Government and we should do something about it. The people scold us and say we are doing nothing about it and we should say something about it. Your presence makes me happy. The situation on the ground is appalling. Please intervene. A lot of things have been said. There are some amongst us who still misbehave.
As we went around, we saw and learnt a lot of things. We run the risk of losing this country to HIV/AIDS. I have decided to add a few words because I was hurt by what is happening in the institutions of higher learning. I repeat that all the schools were saying that there should be grants.
They also complained that they are not accessing HIV/AIDS medication because they are from Masvingo or Gokwe, so they cannot access their medication from the local clinic. When they have to go back home, they lose valuable time and miss lessons. As a result, the children will be forced to default from receiving treatment thereby leading to their deaths. Government should step up and do something about it to ensure that this situation is alleviated and to also prevent this
HIV/AIDS endemic. With these few words, I thank you Hon. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th July, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE
RIGHT TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF
STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: I would also want to extend my
gratitude to the mover of the motion Hon. Sen. Timveos and her seconder. I think we owe a lot on this concept of statelessness to the legacy of colonialism in the sense that for instance, you realise that they brought the concept and also brought the practice. When they were engaging in the recruitment of migrant labour, workers had to come from one country to another for the sake of having cheap labour on their farms and mines. They made sure that those same people that they brought into the country from elsewhere remained on edge, unsure of themselves, feeling a bit insecure and therefore that kind of situation helped the operators of mines and farms to keep their wages down. We know that in some parts of the continent that has now created a problem called xenophobia but all that goes back to colonialism because they wanted cheap labour. The only way they could do that was by bringing in people from a particular country and use them. The workers on the other hand, in the hope that they would get enough money to go back home, continued working but you will realise that most of them ended up finishing their entire lives in those countries where they had gone to work. They would not be issued with registration papers and that also turned out to be the case with their children.
If you also look at the issue of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland which was there between 1953 and 1963, I think it also led to a great movement of people from Malawi to Zimbabwe and Zambia. Even up to now, we have people in this country who still have relatives who moved to the other two countries during the Federation and they are still there. I would suspect that some of those people from the other two countries who stayed behind again became subject to this colonial system whereby they were not issued with registration papers for the sake of being exploited by the colonial system of the time.
We can also go on and talk about refugees. You will find that people moved from distant places like Somalia to Zimbabwe and from Zimbabwe to other countries. Before the colonial times, there were no borders and therefore some of these things did not apply. You would just walk into a place and once people accepted you, you became part of them. However, these days you have to be issued with an identity document, which again is an invention of our colonial heritage. The problem these days is that if we were to open our doors, anybody who turns out to be a refugee in a particular country or in Zimbabwe for instance, and is given documents accepting them as a citizen would probably open the floodgates to all sorts of people moving from everywhere on the planet to come to Zimbabwe and be issued with documentation. That would increase our population in a way that is probably not planned. Some people would say the better option would be something that was suggested in another motion by Hon. Sen. Musaka, where you deliberately procreate and breed like rabbits to increase your own population as much as possible.
The other issue pertaining to our situation in Zimbabwe, is the problem where we end up with people who are classified as stateless because people are born and then have to wait six or more weeks to get a birth certificate. This is according to the birth record that they get. A child is born at a clinic or hospital and then goes to the registrar later to be issued with a birth certificate. I think we should start thinking along the lines of a situation where upon birth, every child is registered officially so that the parents do not have to look for some other resources to travel to some centre where the child can be issued with a birth certificate. In other words, every clinic or hospital should have a place where upon birth every child is given a birth certificate. Maybe the challenge will be that we know that sometimes we experience a bit of child mortality. So, as soon as the child dies, after two days, two months or two years one still have to find resources to get that child a death certificate. However, all the same, no matter what the problems may be, we should start thinking along the lines that everyone who is born is issued with a birth certificate on the day that they are born by whoever is there. For instance, in our rural areas, we could start thinking of allowing our chiefs, their headmen and sub-chiefs to be approved officers who can issue children who are born at home and not at a health institution like a clinic with birth certificates. There will not be a need for witnesses to be carried to a district hospital or a councilor and writing of letters here and there. That will simply kill the problem once and for all. With those few words, I would like to thank you and the mover of the motion.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate. I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Sen. Timveos and her seconder. I may differ with others because if I look at the issue of statelessness, it is difficult for me to believe that one does not have a country of origin. There is no such thing but what is there is that people are just lazy to work so they migrate from one country to the other looking for a place to settle where they will have a blissful life.
What I enjoyed most about this motion is that I would like to thank the Zimbabwean Government. In the past few months, we learnt that the SADC Parliamentary Forum touched on the issue of statelessness. That title was one of the challenges that SADC is facing. I would like to believe that this will be eradicated because from the reports that were being tabled in this House, we hear that this was discussed about. Countries should urge their citizens not to wonder aimlessly; wonderers should not be acceptable in different countries.
Zimbabwe is the food basket. In other countries, there are citizens who are lazy because of few wars that are found in Somalia and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). If you look at the Southern region, you will see that Zimbabwe is peaceful and that if tits people become refugees, they will live well and have food. They see that Mozambican refugees are still here and they flock to Zimbabwe. I hope that the state of statelessness will end very soon.
Some of this so called statelessness people are our own children whose parents are lazy. They have been given land but they do not want to work. Village heads have had problems, they do not want to live in communal land. They run into town, become street children and city fathers and send street children to beg for food. We should not lie to each other as members of this august House. If you go down Samora Machel Avenue, you see parents on the sides of the road and on both sides they will be busy begging and when they get alms, they will go and deposit them to the mother and go back to the street.
It is not the Government that has produced the children but us as parents who plan to give birth to these children. We are using these children because we are lazy, we then say the Government must do something. We are overburdening the Government, let us control ourselves. We should tell the people in our constituencies that they should work hard and that life is never easy, we should work hard to earn a living. A woman sung that song that nothing comes for free. In the past, our parents used to work and sell round nuts and cowpeas to sustain their families. I hear that even school children are complaining that the Government is not giving them funds to be able to allow them to go to school. We went to school without Government assistance. Some of us attained degrees without aid from the Government but were not behaving in an immoral manner. If the family is immoral then the fruit will not fall far from the tree. We should stick to our culture and not readily embrace other cultures. We should not ask that they be given money to buy peanuts and maputi. It should be used for other things. I thank you for giving me that opportunity.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity. How are you? I want to add my voice to such an important issue, a motion raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos on the issue of statelessness. Mr. President, in our African culture, it is a difficult thing to say. If it was a tree, for it to grow, we needed to dig six feet down and put in the proper manure so that it grows up properly. This is an important issue which needs to be looked at seriously. We need to understand what exactly it needs, what the state of affairs is and how the situation can be corrected. If one has moved from several states and seek refuge in Zimbabwe, can one be given Zimbabwean citizenship to end statelessness?
As we were growing up, we used to hear our elders who are now deceased saying there were foreigners who had become experts in being refugees. They would even shun going back to where they would have come from because they would invoke their rights as refugees that there was a particular programme that was sponsoring their upkeep. We have always spoken about this issue as was said by Hon. Sen. Mawire, that in Zimbabwe we have street children who are growing up from the streets. They have not been removed from the streets because the truth of the matter is that everyone has a village head and a chief. What are those street children going to be in future? There are certain organisations that represent those street children and say they should hold fast because that it is their right to be street children.
They have no documentation, birth certificate, national registration certificate; they live under the bridge and grow up to be adults. The next day we are told that they are stateless. Put together, homelessness and statelessness, once we issue our national registration card to such a person, we will hear issues of xenophobia coming back. We hear Zimbabweans being chased away from South Africa, but there are certain Zimbabweans who are chased away from South Africa and they leave their properties behind. What can be done to address such issues?
I would want to give an example of the communal home setting at a school meeting. We say that parents who have children at a particular school should discuss the issue of school fees. They are joined by guardians who are not parents who accept that hundred dollars should be set as fees because they do not know how to raise money. What use is a person going to be to a Zimbabwean country if they are going to be given a national registration certificate when they are not Zimbabwean citizens or children of Zimbabwe Mr. President? Thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th July, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE CONSTITUTION
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees (SDGs) and School Development Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th July, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the Senate
adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.