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SENATE HANSARD 13 FEBRUARY 2019 29-19

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 13th February, 2020.

The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

     THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before we go into

Question Time, I wish to register the following apologies from

Ministers.  Hon. S. G, Nyoni, Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Hon. V.P. Haritatoes, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. We are expecting more Ministers to come.

We now proceed to questions without notice but before we proceed, I think this House would like to register its disappointment on the attendance of Ministers because only two have sent in their apologies.  To my understanding we have more than 20 ministries and most of them have Deputy Ministers.

Since the Leader of the House is here I think, I would like him to take this into consideration, that we are also a House which needs to ask questions that are responded to so that people know and understand.  It is our right.  We represent people.

I have to welcome those who are in here.  We have the Minister of

Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi;

Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology

Development, Hon. Prof. A. Murwira; Deputy Minister of Foreign

Affairs and International Trade, Hon. Musabayana; Deputy Minister of

Defence and War Veterans, Hon. Matemadanda; Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Matuke; the Minister of State for Provincial Affairs for Mashonaland East, Hon.

Mudzverengwi and also Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. Nzenza.  You are welcome Ministers.  Hon. Members, I think we can proceed to ask those Ministers who are in here.

*HON. SEN. SHOKO:  I heard the Leader of the House read out agreements and then saying adopted by the Senate.  I want to find out so that I learn and that next time I know the procedure - next time do we come and he adopts everything by himself?  Before a motion is adopted, should there not be a mover and a seconder to the motion?  That is how I know the procedure should be.  Thank you.

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Minister, can you

clarify please.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Madam

President, I was giving a notice of motion that I intend to bring those Conventions to Parliament for ratification.  So when we bring in a notice of motion, the way it is couched is that at the end you say - ‘Now therefore this House resolves this’.  So what will happen is this - the next time we sit Madam President, we will put the question and ask if there is any debate and then we debate.  At the conclusion of the debate she will also rise again and say the motion before us is a question by the Minister that we do 1, 2, 3, 4.  Those who are of the opinion – then we say ‘aye’ or ‘no’ and then we vote.  So it is just the standard procedure of how things happen.

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Thank you very much

for the question and the answer.  Now we can proceed.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA:  Thank you Madam

President.  I cannot be left out in congratulating you in entering this new year with a vision of building our country.  My question is directed to the Leader of the House because the Minister of Health and Child Care seems not around.

Madam President, we are very much afraid that this country in the East is in trouble because of the corona virus.  So with the people who are visiting or going out of the country, is the country still safe since we do not have medicine that can fight the corona virus? It is not a disease which can be treated and the country might be affected.  What are we doing to protect our people against the corona virus which has spread throughout the world?

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you

Madam President.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member who asked the question.  This is an issue that is being talked about that in China there is a disease called corona virus.  What I can assure the House is that the Minister of Health and Child Care will come here to give a Ministerial Statement about this disease.  Yesterday he was supposed to have given the Ministerial Statement in the National Assembly but he was in the post Cabinet briefing.  He will address the House next week, but what I can assure you is that we do not have any instance of the disease here in Africa including our country.

There is a lot which is being done to protect people.  The Minister was talking to the Ambassador of China on how those in China have to stay there, those in the country are not supposed to go to China and how they can quarantine people who would have arrived from China for about 14 days whilst they are being checked. What I promise you is that the Minister will come with a Ministerial Statement in this House then you will ask questions and he will be at liberty to answer.

HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I wanted to ask the Leader of the House who has just explained a very detailed account of what the Government is doing.  What I am more interested in is, in most countries they are already screening people at the airport, are we doing that or we are waiting for incidence to happen and then take action?

*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam President, it is true that we are screening people.  The Minister was through the newspaper and on television explaining the facilities which are being used for screeningat Robert Mugabe International Airport and Joshua Quabuko Nkomo Airport to check if our workers are ready to screen people who will be entering the country.  I want to promise you that if you could wait a bit, the Minister will come well prepared with a Ministerial Statement which we agreed that we will present in this Senate.

HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU:  Thank you Madam President,

my question is directed to the Leader of the House. On the issue of animals -we understand this disease also affects cattle, how well are we prepared as Government to screen this disease in cattle?

*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Let me help you Hon.

Senator. The Minister said that he will give a Ministerial statement regarding this issue and you will be given the chance to ask questions.

*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI:  Thank you Madam President, my

question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, in his absence, I will direct my question to the Leader of Government Business.  What plans do you have to promote female teachers so that that they become headmasters?

*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMETARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I thank you

Madam President.  Firstly, our Constitution does not allow discrimination where only men are employed but it says that people have to be employed on merit and that we need to balance in terms of gender.

We also make sure we employ from the region where people come from and that is what our Constitution says.  What I am not able to answer is what is happening in the Ministry of Education on whether there are more men or women as headmasters. The responsible Minister will clarify on that.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: Thank you Madam President, my

question is directed to the Leader of the House -

Hon. Ndhlovu having difficulty in pronouncing wordslaughter

HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: Sorry Madam President, I have a

dental problem but I am willing to ask a question. My question is directed to the Leader of the House.  What is the Government policy on school fees increase in Government and Council schools, given the harsh economic challenges? I thank you Madam President.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you

Madam President.  Earlier on last year before we adjourned for

Christmas, this question was asked and I responded to it.  Madam President, Government has not increased fees to the extent that it became unsustainable to the generality of the population in terms of Government schools.  We have different categories of schools. We also have schools that are not run by Government and the parents and school authorities have what are termed School Development Committees that sit and agree on the fee level, depending on the quality of food or whatever they want for their children. Government has ordinarily refrained from interfering with those processes.

In so far as Government schools are concerned, the fees have not been increased exorbitantly.  I also have to add that many a time parents do not attend to the School Development Committee meetings even those that are run by Government where other levies, besides the school fees are discussed.   I urge parents to participate so that whatever decision is done they are also party to it.  Government ordinarily does not want to interfere in agreements that have been made, depending on what parents agree to in terms of school development as seen by the parents and school authorities.

+HON. SEN. PHUTHI: Thank you Madam President, I would

want to find out what are the fees for Government schools in both primary and secondary so that we can go, compare and look into this issue where we come from?

         THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you

Madam President. My simple answer is that I cannot state right away how much the school fees per each primary and secondary school is – That would require that you put the question in writing and maybe the Minister can come and indicate what the fees are.

There are two parts to what parents pay.  There is the tuition fees, that is the school fees and then there is a levy that is agreed upon by parents and the school authorities.  So perhaps if the Hon. Member wants the exact amount that is paid per school, I am not privy whether there are uniforms throughout or they are different.  Perhaps if the Hon.

Member puts that in writing, then the Minister can respond accordingly.

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Thank you Hon.

Minister.  I think that advice is very important because it will help everybody.

HON. SEN. KHUPE:  Thank you Madam President, my question

is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  What is the policy on naming streets or buildings in urban and rural areas and even on naming mountains?  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you

Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question.

The naming of streets name places is in two parts.  There are those that are done by local authorities subject to approval and gazeting.  Then there are some that are named by central Government subject to the relevant procedures and approval by Cabinet, gazetting and then the names will be changed or named accordingly.  I thank you.

         *HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE:  Thank you Madam

President.  My question is directed to the Leader of the House and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  Our country is in trouble because of the machete murderers.  People are cruelly killing each other but when they are brought to courts, there are about three or so judges who are giving bail to these murderers.  What is Government policy on murderers?

*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you

Madam President.  First and foremost, I want to say that our Constitution specifically states that bail is a human right and that is where we start from.

There is what is called ‘presumption’ in English meaning that you are not guilty before you are convicted.  It is not true that once someone is accused, they have to be locked in prison whilst attending court.  A lot of things are considered before awarding bail.  Furthermore, because cases of machete killings were so much in the few months or weeks, the policy directive was that they should not be granted bail.  There was need to make sure that the cases are processed expeditiously and the perpetrators are convicted and incarcerated.  I thank you.

     *HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE:  We see that a person is

granted bail and they commit another crime whilst still on bail.  Should a person be granted bail on top of another bail?

*HON. ZIYAMBI:  Thank you Madam President. What I have

explained is what is supposed to be done.  When someone is given bail, there are conditions that are given when you are on bail and if you break the conditions, then you can be locked in.  You no longer have a right to be outside when you have failed to adhere to the bail conditions.

However, if there is a specific case of a murderer on bail who committed a similar crime, then that has to be looked into because our laws do not allow that.  It means that something will be very wrong.

HON. SEN. MAKONE:  My question is directed to the Leader of

House and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  I understand from the local press that Cabinet endorsed a salary of ZWL$168.00 for domestic workers.  I just want to find out if Government has policy of matching the cost of living with salaries that are determined for low paid workers and if in this case they found that

ZWL$168.00 was commensurate with the cost of living?  I thank you.

            THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  I thought the question

was supposed to be directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.

HON. MAKONE:  I am sorry Madam President. I did not realise

that he was in.  Since he is now here, I accordingly redirect the question to him.  I thank you.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR

AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE):  Thank you Madam

President and thank you Hon. Senator at important question.  Yes, the ZWL$168.00 that the domestic workers were supposed to receive as salary – I think the issue was just a delay of the Government Gazette.

         The same review was made twice and the current salary is now ZWL$500.00 but again, the issue is still under discussion to try and review the same ZWL$500.00 upwards.  The process is that it is not the mandate of the ministry to dictate the salary but the procedure is that they go through a salary negotiation with stakeholders such as the workers unions and other organisations that are involved in discussing issues to do with salaries.  So, as I am talking to you now, I think in the next few weeks, we will be receiving new scales but currently it is RTGs

500 .  It is not RTGs 168  

HON. SEN. MAKONE: Is it at all possible for Government to have a policy of looking after the disadvantaged society?  I do not think that the domestic workers can be lumped together with people working in industries because these are the people that us here in the House actually employ and we are not represented to the best of my knowledge.  It is being done by somebody where I think Government should have an interest and a stake because these are the majority of the employed people in Zimbabwe.  500 bond as you know Minister will not be enough to support one person for a week today in Zimbabwe.

HON. SEN. KOMICHI:  My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce.  We have heard stories about the revival of ZISCO Steel and now there is no news at all.  We would like to know what is happening and what are the future plans?

THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.

NZENZA): This question comes at a very timely moment because during the last ten days, I have been to ZISCO Steel and have done a tour twice.  I am now in the process of doing a review and I should be able to talk about the situation at ZISCO Steel as well as the situation at ZIMCO in due time.  

*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  I would like to know whether it is raining in every part of our country and are we getting enough of it and how the crops are.  We were crying because of the Kariba Dam. We want to know how much water is in Kariba.

*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  I would like to

thank the Hon. Sen. for raising such a critical question which seeks to understand the yield that we are expecting as well as the possibility of generating electricity from Kariba Hydropower Station.  I request that the Hon. Senator puts down that question in writing because it needs a lot of research and figures. For example in Manicaland, we want to know how many millimetres are there; is it below average. We would want to know the same for Kariba and Matabeleland.  I will be inaccurate if I speak off the cuff.

*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Hon. Prof. Murwira.  I would like to find out from the Minister whether there are preparations by Zimbabwe for people who can design preservation of the economy.  For instance, there are some companies like ZISCO Steel and National

Railways of Zimbabwe that were designed with a specific life- span.  When that life -span expired, those companies went down.  Can we have designers who can design life- spans for the economy?

*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA):  That is a very important

question because if you look at the industry that we had in this country, I would like to say that this industry landed actually because it came from somewhere and it landed.  If the country has to prosper, it has to design and make its own things.  All these things come from education and that is determined also by the curriculum of education.  The education curriculum that we inherited was mainly meant to teach people to work for other people and not to be employers.  It was done deliberately.

Most of our industries were designed elsewhere and our education was such that it was designed to work in an industry that was introduced by the metropole in a colony-metropole relationship.  This is normal of a colonised country because when people colonise you, they do not colonise you to love you. They colonise you to exploit you so that they get richer.

Our education was designed so that our people can be able to read and write; speak good English...

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Hon. Minister.

May you address the Chair.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA:  Thank you.  It was designed in such a way that our people would read and write and also be able to speak good English.  If it is in engineering, some basic engineering so that they can be able to work in the designed industry but that industry was designed by universities and colleges elsewhere. These colleges and universities are the way countries design their future but in a colonial economy; it is an economic design.  They cannot teach you what they teach their people. It is by design and that is normal.

Just to illustrate, somebody was telling me that our education was equivalent to British education and I said no, it is not possible. He said why and I told him that if we had received British education we should have designed Concord, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, submarine and we should have designed satellites if we had received exactly the same kind of education. So, we did not and it was deliberate. You cannot blame or not blame; it is just the way it was because a colonial system is an

economic system.

So, what was happening is that designs were happening in Britain and work was happening in the colonies which is normal. Our education was such that it was only there to serve the purpose of sitting in an office and making sure that things are working well for them and not you.

Basically what then happens is...

              THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Give a response

to that particular question.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Sorry Madam President. Design was

happening in Britain for this country and work was happening here. The education was designed in such a way that it had only three things that you had to do – teach, research and workshops. So, we call it 3.0 and it was the education for working - the real education is an education that designs things and gives rights to a national capability. A national capability is the ability of a nation to do its things. No matter if we were going to build an anthill and you come and destroy it today, we will build it again until you are tired. That is national capability.

The issue with our education is; we have redesigned it so that it is in tandem with production of goods and services from design to the production of goods and services. This education as I said before is called Education 5.0 whereby instead of just teaching we also do research and meetings, but we do innovation and we also do industrialisation. It is now a design based education. An education that will produce a person who will emulate what Munhumutapa and Rhodes were doing making their own things. Our import bill is very high because we are not making our own things. We are importing njere, we are importing brains.

So what the Hon. Senator is saying is - are we ready now? Yes, we are ready and we have redesigned that education so that we are now building our innovation hubs where people have got good designs – they are evaluated and are given what we call intellectual property, marketed and we put them in the industrial parks for manufacturing. We have done this and there are examples on the ground where we have finished innovation hubs at the University of Zimbabwe. We have done innovation hubs at Chinhoyi University of Technology, Midlands State University, National University of Science and Technology and at Harare Institute of Technology. All these places are places of design and thinking.

We have started building industrial parks at Chinhoyi University of

Technology, University of Zimbabwe Farm and the other one in Midlands State University. These are the places where manufacturing happens. So our education has changed in such a way that our people will be able to own their own destiny by design. Of course, they can cooperate with anyone in the world but at least they have a programme. We cannot just wait for nobody. We call it waiting for godot, a person who does not come at all.

Now our education is possible - we have liberated our thinking with the same people but we have just said now think wider and you are allowed to do so. It is not a crime and our budget now as has been voted by Senate has got five terms of reference. You budget for the teachers, research, visits, innovation and you budget for industrialisation and I am happy to say you approved a very handsome budget for all these activities to happen so that our education must result in goods and services.

The state of the economy of any country is a reflection of how it does its education. Education is the Indaba, Dare and Imbizo of today. It has to be a Dare, Imbizo and it has to be an Indaba where sensible things are being designed for our future. This is what we have done and I hope in a way I have been able to answer that question, that we have now moved into the design. Most of the times when you see industries falling and you cannot revive them, it is not yours. You cannot revive what is not yours without referring to the person who designed it in the first place. It is natural and that is how the Republic of China for example has become very developed. It is so developed that everybody wants to go there. Everybody has forgotten what they were telling them in the past, that you are communists – everybody is going there because they are able to do things.

This is exactly the way we are following. We are basically going back to our heritage and say Zimbabwe cannot be poor if our people are allowed to work on their resources and given enough confidence and enough direction to be able to do that. So design is everything and I heard the question which was saying reviving. Sometimes you revive things that are yours – things that are not yours you cannot revive. You just have to make a new one. What we want is steel. So, we will make another steel plant. Maybe we will not call it ZISCO and maybe we will not call it what we were calling it before RISCO. May be we will just call it steel plant and we will have plants. This is the way we are now teaching our people. I thank you.

        HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam

President. This Minister always displays capable, intellectual competency whenever he replies and he is doing it this afternoon. On this subject Hon. Minister, now it is you and before you there was Prof. J. Moyo who came with STEM. You now have Education 5.0. Before that, there was Prof. S. Mudenge, a renowned academic in the world. My question is- how long are we going to wait to move from that colonial mentality of education?

We are 40 years and we have had professors in this Ministry, each one delivering as if everything will happen tomorrow. How long are we going to wait because we are not the only ones? There are other countries that have beenindependent for more than 70 years  and they have not been able to get to the stage of designing. When are we also likely to get to that level of education? How many years from now – tambomira, nguva yarebesa? Thank you.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Madam President. I want

to thank the Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira for asking that question. I want to start by saying there is no wrong time to do the right thing as a preamble also. As Zimbabweans, we are products of the past and we are also trying to give birth to a future because right now in our blood is the blood of our ancestors. That is how nature works. Anyway, the issue about Education 5.0 that we have been talking about, in reality it is being implemented. What I talked about in terms of innovation hubs, I am talking about real physical buildings which are there and which we have done because we are also tired of waiting. This is the time that we are now acting.

The issue is- when you are in a design and you say you are maintaining the standards sometimes people were saying we are maintaining the standards because we were doing what the Rhodesians were doing. You cannot maintain that standard and expect to get out of Rhodesia. It is so simple. You cannot use colonial education for liberation it is not possible. The design system, because we are not talking about the change of a mathematics formula we are not talking about the change of a physics formula – that is not it. We are still doing the same chemistry, we are still doing the same physics but the design says the chemistry of a Muhacha tree, the chemistry of Zimbabwe’s soil.  This is now what we are talking about and this time around there is no more waiting.

The industrial park that I have been talking about is being built but also one thing which is very interesting is when we introduced the 5.0 design that is heritage base. Madam President, we were able just to see how much Zimbabweans are intelligent.  We have got a lot of intelligent people but we have to allow them the space to show that intelligence.  So what we have done is to allow them that space and what has happened?  When we did this Education 5.0 and the innovation hubs, the University of Zimbabwe for example has applied for 55 patents just in eight months when the policy was introduced.

Patents are the basis of the industrialisation of any nation.  HIT has applied for more than 20 patents and patents are the basis of industrialisation.  MSU has followed and done the same.  The Chinhoyi University of Technology in their artificial insemination programme for building the herd of Zimbabwe now have the capability of producing seven million bull semen straws which is equivalent to a net growth revenue per annum if they were exporting, about US$140 million.  This happened only in one year.  We just gave them space.  So it is not like our people are not capable.  They are capable but we had to give them space.

It was a designed programme because we had a problem, if I could use that example of saying people were always told usabate, do not touch.  Now we are saying our policy in higher education, when it is your country bata, bata, batai nyika yenyu.  What that basically means is work on it.  You cannot wait, you cannot have a thing that no, it cannot be opened, you have to phone so that somebody can come in.  No, we are no longer waiting.  We are opening Zimbabwe.

So this is what we are doing and I hope it satisfies the Hon. Senator that the time of waiting is over.  We are now in action mode.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. DUBE:  Thank you Madam President.  My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development, Prof. Murwira.  Hon. Minister, what is the Government position on increasing fees for tertiary institutions and what are the plans for students from vulnerable families?

THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY

EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA):  Thank you Madam President.  I want to thank the Hon. Senator for such an important question.  Hon. President, our policy is access to quality education.  Access to quality education is an issue.  Therefore what it means is, any fee level that we determine has to be based on the principle of reasonability, affordability and sustainability.

What we mean, is we have to be able to arrive in class and teaching must happen.  We have to be in the laboratory of science and science must happen.  So that basically means - is it is real education, people are there.  So now our policy is based on reasonability, sustainability and affordability.  What we have done as a Ministry is to follow procedures following these processes to say, what are the levels of fees that we have to charge in order to sustain the universities, in order to sustain the colleges.

When we did this we made sure that this is the first time Hon. President since 2008, that the Government of Zimbabwe has determined the fees in Zimbabwean dollars.  From 2009 up to last year 2019, our ordinances for fees were in United States dollars.  I want to make sure that we are not talking about the increases in fees, we are basically talking about the levels of fees at this moment.  So I will talk about the levels of the schools fees, not the increase because the United States dollars cannot be compared.  If we had increased, it would then mean students were paying something like US$1 500 accommodation plus. It would mean if we were following that logic we could be talking about $25 000 by now in terms of what we are charging, but what we are then charging is based on the reality on the ground and Zimbabwe as a country, because remember we want to give a national capability to industrialise this country as per Vision 2030.

What we then did as a community was to make sure that the minimum that is required for a university to operate was calculated at about $3 500 for arts and humanities.  It was then calculated again to the tuition of $4 000 for engineering and sciences.  It was then calculated to be $5 000 for life science which is veterinary science and medicine, but then we knew that not everybody could be able to afford these fees.  As usual even if you say $100 some people will not be able to afford those fees, so you always have to cater for some people because really the whole of last year we did not touch the fees at all because we did not want to respond to the austerity measures. I still remember on 18th June, 2019, I made a statement that we were not going to touch on any fee increases or anything during that year because we had to respond to austerity and make sure that we tighten our belts also.  We cannot be eating turkey while other people are eating zvidhimba.  

So at some point, we were actually also facing criticism that children are no longer eating and so forth but we knew what we were doing. This year since it is a year of productivity, we have now said okay let us determine the levels of the fees.  Those ones who for the first time since about end of the 90s and beginning of the 2000s, we have now introduced again a Government backed student loan scheme which is capitalised to about US$105 million. I want to thank this House for having approved that because this scheme had since been stopped in the late 90s early 2000s.

This Government backed loan scheme is a loan scheme which is not asking for things like pay slips which are asked in the other loan schemes we call the commercial loan scheme.  We believe that using this method we are now able to make our students able to get into class and do quality education, but also I want to say Hon. President, for the first time this House of Parliament voted for supporting universities in terms of their operations. Each State university was given at least $6 million and at most $10 million for operations.  This also makes sure that universities are not too thirsty to increase the fees beyond what we are talking about.  We really want to thank this House for that.

On the other hand, our industrialization agenda that we are talking about is aimed at making sure that a university’s income will come from its industrial operations much more than it will come from student fees.

This is what is happening because if you look at Silicon Valley in the United States where everybody wants to go, it is a product of Stanford University, it is not normally talked about but it is a product of a university and they have got billons of money.  This is the future that we are building knowing very well that there is a Zimbabwe beyond ourselves.  So we are building that future as well and we are trying to make sure that in the future the fees that are required constitute this little and the industry will be producing this big.  This is also a strategy which is medium to long term that we are pursuing.

Also Hon. President one of the things that we are doing to make sure that fees are affordable is we have said all masters by researchers all PHDs that have something to do with national development programmes which have already been enunciated through Cabinet by the President which are called science, innovation, research and development programmes which are about 15 of them.  We are saying any PHD which is researching in that; we are giving them money to do research.  So for the first time our mphils and our dphils that are within the national programme are going to go to school with the money that has been voted for by Parliament to make sure that our development is prioritised.

So this has not been talked about a lot but this is what I am saying and I am revealing to this Senate that that is also what we have done in order to make sure that our research leads to goods and services.  So, there goes the matter and I really thank you.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.

         HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President, I move that Questions Without Notice be extended by 15 minutes.

HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: I second.

     THE HON. PRESIDENT OFSENATE: We extend by how

many minutes?

HON. SEN. SHOKO: We extend with 15 minutes Madam

President.

     THE HON. PRESIDENT OFSENATE: Already we are left with

3 minutes on the 15 minutes.

HON. SEN. SHOKO: I thought we will count from 1530hrs

Madam President.

            THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We will extend

with 10 minutes starting from quarter to, thank you.

Motion put and agreed to.

*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President.  I want to

start by congratulating you for making it to this New Year because this is my first time to speak this year.  My question is on examination fees.  I have noted that the fees are very exorbitant.  I note that Government is trying to fix the economy but the majority of people do not have that kind of money.  We are pleading with the relevant Ministry that examination fees be lowered because it is too high.  Minister Prof. Murwira is speaking very well but even the new curriculum starting from ECD, there are a lot of books that are now needed.  So, we are pleading with the Hon. Minister that the fees be reviewed downwards.  I thank you.

*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you

Madam President.  I will take the word to the Minister and Cabinet that there is a request that examination fees be reduced so that it is affordable to people.

*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. President.  My question is

directed to the Leader of the House.  I want to know from the Minister about the children on scholarship under the Presidential Scholarship Scheme, are they getting their allowances.  Secondly, we heard that the country diplomats are not getting their salaries; we want to know whether they are being paid now?  We hear that some are staying in verandas, can we have clarification on our diplomats and our students on Presidential Scholarships?

         *THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMETNARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.

Presidential, firstly the policy of Government is that if a child is offered scholarship information on payment of fees and everything is availed to the child and they sign the requisite documents, the fees will be covered by Government.  On the issue of whether the fees is paid or not, that is not a policy question but you can put it in writing so that the Minister can come and answer.  Diplomats are Government workers, they are paid according to Government policy, and if you know people who are not being paid you can put it in writing indicating where so that you can be answered adequately.

      *HON. SEN. DR MAVETERA:  Thank you Mr. President, my

question is directed to the Leader of the House and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  Recently, we noticed the ZANU PF youths featuring on television and newspapers criticizing the country especially on corruption.

We later read that these youths were representing themselves and have now been fired by the leader of the country. Is it Government policy that once we talk about corruption we are fired?  The people who were mentioned were ordinary citizens – those that are suspected to be destroying the country’s economy.

         *THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI):  Thank you Mr.

President, my response is that issues to do with political parties and Government are separate.  When people fight in the NCA party, we do not get involved as Government and when MDC fights – it is their internal issue.

As ZANU PF, we do not bring what we do here and say that it is Government policy.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI:  Thank you Mr. President, my

question is directed to the Leader of the House and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.

Mr. President, cattle were all killed by diseases in my rural constituency.  To date, cattle are dying from diseases so much that people are failing to sow crops due to lack of draft power.  What is Government doing about dipping policies?  These are the diseases that are destroying our cattle and this year people will not be able to farm because all their cattle are dead.  I thank you.

         *THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.

President. I would also like to thank the Hon. Senator for such an important question.

Indeed cattle died en masse and he also asked, ‘What Government is doing about cattle dipping?’  The Government has plans to procure dipping chemicals and dispatch them.  As you heard the Hon. Professor from the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development talking – they are also conducting researches so that we manufacture dipping chemicals locally.

The challenge that we have is twofold Mr. President Sir.  The first being that people out there no longer give importance to their livestock -   when they are called upon to clean the dip tanks, a few turn up to clean the dip tanks.  Secondly, parents and farmers prefer to lose all their cattle instead of selling just one cow to procure dipping chemicals in case

Government delays to dispatch dipping chemicals.  The Minister of

Agriculture is on record stating that Government is only there to chip in here and there but now people behave as if their cattle belong to Government.  So there is a problem there because people should realise that those are their cattle and they should work hard to protect them and take care of them.  People should sell just one cow instead of losing out on all their herds whilst waiting for Government to come in.  I thank you.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 62.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 45TH PLENARY

ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN

MAPUTO

First Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the delegation to the 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary

Forum.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MBOHWA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th February, 2020.

On the motion of HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA, seconded by HON. SEN. SHOKO, the Senate adjourned at One Minute to Four o’clock p.m.

 

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