- Version
- Download 71
- File Size 262.46 KB
- File Count 1
- Create Date November 16, 2021
- Last Updated November 17, 2021
SENATE HANSARD 16 NOVEMBER 2021 VOL 31 NO 11
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th November, 2021
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
DEATH OF HON. SEN. SIMON KHAYA MOYO
THE HON PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is with profound sorrow that I have to inform the Senate of the untimely death of Hon. Simon Khaya Moyo, Senator for Matabeleland South, on Sunday, 14th November, 2021.
I therefore invite Hon. Senators to rise and observe a minute of silence in respect of the late Hon. Senator.
All Hon. Senators stood and observed a minute of silence.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Madam President, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion moved by Sen. Kambizi, seconded by Sen. Mabika.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order Hon. Senator, can you switch on your mic please?
*HON. CHINAKE: I just have a few words to add because most of the things were already debated. The President said a lot of progressive issues. The importance of the President’s speech is that it addressed a lot of practical things such as road networks. What the President said when he took over the office was fulfilled, roads are now navigable.
The second thing is when we come to this House, we need to be united because we are the leaders. There is no need to make reference to things that show differences amongst us but we can all blend as Hon. Senators. Let us help the President to fix this country.
The third thing Hon. President, is that for more than two decades, this country has been in election mode. Can we for once stop the electioneering mode and focus on developmental issues so that we develop our country. If we continue being in electioneering mood, it is not good at all. It is detrimental to the future of our children. Each time we focus on elections, everything retreats. For this economy to progress, we need to be united., . There are a lot of people that have made reference to what I am saying. That shows that we are in support of each other, so let us proceed with that. There will be no progress if we continue fighting. Even the President has on several occasions talked about unity in order for us to restore the economy. Let us support him in order for us to realise progress. If you are always opposing the majority, it shows that you are lost. If we leave this place and we find that the people out there are experiencing hunger, it is because we are disunited. We need to unite and work together in order for us to create jobs and progress.
Yes, we come from different political parties but once we get here, we must be united because people do not care about what we do or where we come from. All they are concerned about is what we do and plan in this House. Let us unite and refer to one common issue so that we realise progress. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Kambizi, seconded by Hon. Sen. Mabika. I would like to make reference to agriculture that was referred to by the President in his speech, especially the smart agricultural programme. I would like to applaud the President for the Pfumvudza Programme because it solved the hunger crisis in this country. The Pfumvudza which refers to conservation agriculture was used in the past. Even our fathers used barbed wire for alignment of the holes that would be dug. The reason was that those holes conserve moisture in the event that we receive minimal rainfall and the holes would be in a straight line. If you were to cultivate, it would be effective; only small portions would have weeds. There were no herbicides by then. So the Pfumvudza Programme is good in developing people and reducing hunger. When we visited the irrigation schemes with the Gender Committee, people used to complain about delays in inputs distribution, now I am happy that many people have since received those inputs, including groundnuts. I appreciate that. People are happy that we are working because their complaints have since been addressed and they are now receiving inputs on time.
I would like to also applaud the President and it is important to appreciate and give credit where it is due. This programme is not discriminatory. Anyone who is capable to work qualifies. If you want to work on five plots, you will receive inputs enough for that. So that programme is meant for everyone and everyone will get the inputs regardless of belonging to any grouping. I would like to applaud the President very much for that. That is what exactly happens and unifies people. Wherever we are going we discover that everyone is getting access to the inputs. If you fail to get the inputs, it is now up to you but you will get those including groundnuts. I grow groundnuts and I get a lot of money from peanut butter.
I would like to refer to another aspect. The President said laws should be implemented, especially with reference to devolution. We need implementation of laws with regards to devolution. I grew up in Mutoko but I am saddened by the fact that we are not benefiting from those minerals. We have to ensure that devolution laws are put in place. The natural resources were given to us by the God and our ancestors. With these few words, I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Mr. President. Firstly, I would like to bow in respect of the demise of the national hero, Hon. Sen. Simon Khaya Moyo. I am saddened by the untimely passing on of the Senator, may his soul rest in peace.
Secondly Mr. President, I would like to add a few words debating the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Kambizi and all those who have supported the motion. Indeed, they supported the fact that we also realised as traditional leaders, the President of this country is of the lineage of Chief Mapanzure - I thank him for those important words he said about this country on how we can fix this country as being witnessed by other people and not only Senators here but even the generality of the populace.
I would like to go back to his words. It has been long since we had a very principled leader who does not take advantage or discriminates against people basing on region or where one comes from. We would like to appreciate very much and would like to refer to his inaugural speech at the National Sports Stadium. He said I would like to restore and restore relations that had been eroded between this country and other countries. Any home that does not receive visitors or even kids is not a home at all and there is nothing interesting about that home.
Recently, the President was invited to talk about things that are disturbing the environment. This was after more than two decades. When he got there, he was awaited very much like bees in a beehive. They really wanted to disturb him. They said Australia and United States of America are advocating for same sex marriages or gays and lesbians. When we talk about same sex love relations and I am using words that do not refer to ordinary love but we are talking of gays and lesbian relationships or marriages. He strongly rejected that and he said I am here to deliver the message that a country is built by its own people, stone upon stone, brick upon brick. The President stood by the principles bestowed on him by this country as well as God.
Coming back home, the country was attacked by the COVID-19 pandemic and so many words were said by people but the President stood and said, I need to procure vaccines to stop the spread of this pandemic. Indeed, he procured a lot of vaccines to fight the pandemic. You cannot talk of any other development or construction of roads if you do not fight a pandemic. As we speak, we are all putting on masks because we are fighting COVID-19. So the President is God fearing and indeed, he respected the citizens of this country. God blessed him and this country was protected.
I would like to applaud his vision. All the roads leading out of this capital city, Harare are now navigable. That shows that he is a visionary leader. By the time we get to 2030, indeed this country will be very much advanced. This Parliament was constructed by the whites but he has now constructed his own Parliament as a way of restoring this country. Indeed, this puts this country on the map. Look at all the construction that he is doing, be it on roads and dams, the entire infrastructure that he is building.
If we look at it from a biblical perspective, this should be the Joseph that was sent to us. Joseph was a dream interpreter to King Pharaoh and he was significant for bringing relief to his people. Indeed, this is the same reference we give to our country because the Bible says there is nothing new that has not been experienced before. So the visionary leadership of Chief Mapanzure is very much applauded. Life is determined by God; but the life that we are living, we would like to applaud his vision and dream.
I would like to applaud the fact that in this country, everyone is getting enough food. As I stand here, I feel so proud because I am satisfied with the President’s vision. I would like to applaud the motion raised by Senator Kambizi. May God bless him abundantly even if He said He will not give any wisdom to someone after Solomon but we hereby ask God Almighty to give part of the wisdom that He gave to Solomon to President Mnangangwa to lead this country into progress. With these few words, allow me to take my seat Mr. President Sir.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to debate on the State of the Nation Address by the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe. As we open the Fourth Session, a lot would be said and people will say aah-ah to some of these things but we will never forget that we are the ones that are supposed to be building this nation. It is something that is known even by young children. They know the status quo of this country and who is supposed to build it. It means everyone in this country is receiving the message to say if we do not lead by example by building this nation, the things that we desire as a nation, no one will come forth to do that for us.
The President said a lot of things and the laws of this land that are upon these two Houses, the Lower and Upper House. There is work that is expected to be done by these two legislative Houses. It is wisdom that we actually expect from people to say we should come together and work on this issue. We would like to thank the Head of State and Government, President Mnangagwa – there are laws that we are going to scrutinise as the Lower and Upper House; we are using colonial laws. There are some laws that we are supposed to amend. We should come up with Zimbabwean laws that will help us to restore our culture and heritage.
Hon. Sen. Chief Chikwaka said something in this House – in other countries men are engaging in gay relationships. We want to make laws that reflect on us as Zimbabweans. In some instances, we go beyond the borders. Even if you go to Amsterdam, there is nothing as important as your own identity. When we look back at our forefathers, there is need for us to build our own country. We need wisdom so that we are able to undertake the task before us. It might be lawmaking and alignment of these laws – doing it knowing that we are doing it for Zimbabwe. We are doing it for the heritage of our children. We should not copy from others inasmuch as some of the things are good; we should stick to our own culture, heritage and identity. We were given an opportunity to assist His Excellency. If we are in this House, we are there to assist him by showing love to one another so that we help build this nation. Slowly, we are supposed to come up with a Zimbabwe that we desire to see. When this land was ruled by the colonial powers, the first grievance was land. Those who went to war, the first thing they were asked was the issue of land. Now that we are independent, the President is encouraging agriculture. His emphasis is on production. We should not engage in deforestation.
This country should be a marvel to the people who live in it. Let us come up with legislation that beautifies our country. As chiefs, we are very happy and as known by everyone, we were working on the Marriages Bill. We put our input and we are grateful to His Excellency’s action, of allowing us to contribute to this cause. We came together and worked together. Our encouragement in this House is what the President would have said – let us work on that and that will be seen by the results of the works that we do.
We are actually playing our role over the ‘Pfumvudza/Intwasa’ Programme. In Makumbe community, every village; we have about 400 headmen and 11 political wards. The President is going around the whole country and he is not selective. The task is on how we should assist him. We should look and work on things that bring unity amongst us. We do not go for disruptive things but nation building.
The President mentioned a lot of things regarding Bills that are coming through. We should have things moving smoothly in this country. We would like to thank His Excellency for the progress made on infrastructural development throughout the country. Everyone in this country now knows the President because of the works he is doing on the bridges and Karanda Hospital. I have been to Karanda with my relative and it was difficult to get there but now it is very easy. He is a man of action and we should compliment that action so that it is easy for him.
We were with the President in Chimanimani and the next day he was in Gokwe. This is the spirit we should have as people. One should ask himself or herself what one has done for the country. This is the lesson we are getting from His Excellency. As chiefs, we are respected. We get everything. We have no complaints. As we speak, all chiefs have cars. The country is getting into shape slowly. The owners of this country are doing their work. Let us support this cause by doing good things. We are only looking for good things as a nation. Elections came through and we should choose whom we desire. We should build this country brick by brick so that it is a marvel to those beyond the borders. They should know it because of the good works we have done.
We are thankful to the President because we now have the Mbuya Nehanda statue, a symbol of our heritage where we came from. We encourage him to keep on doing what he is doing. We should also come together as a people so that our country progresses. The amount of energy that we put into arguing against each other should be directed towards the development of our country so that our economy flourishes.
Agriculture is practiced everywhere, everyone is engaged in farming and our wealth is in the soil. We now know what we are supposed to do with the soil. The President has fixed irrigation schemes as well as dams and it is up to us to use these resources. We should make use of these resources so that we see progress.
The President spoke against corruption. Corruption is stealing from us. The spirit of selfishness should be gotten rid of, let us differentiate between individual possessions and those that belong to the nation. Even in our homes, if you eat a lot of food whilst the others lack food, it is not a good thing; inequality is not good.
I say to fellow Zimbabweans, let us support our President and say no to corruption. To everyone in leadership, including us the chiefs, we should deliver justice to our people. This is what is wanted by His Excellency the President. When people do their work, they should remember that they are working for their country. Before you think of yourself, think of this nation so that we move forward.
We have a lot of food in this country - there are a lot of tomatoes and other products in Mbare. We have a balanced diet from the food that we eat, we have everything that we desire. Even in Mt. Darwin there is a farm called Lead which is full of farm products. In Manicaland, there are a lot of farm products - this country has people who are working. Areas which used to be forests are now farms; this is what we expect from the people of Zimbabwe, to work hard for their livelihood.
I just spoke like any other chief who was given a task by His Excellency. We should work together with His Excellency the President; he should not be working on his own. We should be there to assist him. We should not just do lip service; we should walk the talk and do the work on the ground. What we talk about should come from our hearts, we should do our work with passion so that our actions show our identity, where we are going and where we are coming from. This is exactly how we can assist His Excellency the President. Even from where we stay, we should support His Excellency; we should show our true character to him. We should not smile at the President during the day and then frown at him in the evening.
As a people, we should know that when things become very tough and unbearable, we are approaching the good times, we are about to reach the promised land of Canaan. Let us build our nation according to the desires of His Excellency the President as portrayed in his speech. We should build this country slowly, brick by brick, we are very thankful to everything that the President is doing. We will stand by him and support his work. With these few words Hon. President, I say thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to debate on this motion so that our country can become a marvel. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th November, 2121
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
INVITATION TO A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the Senate that there will be a Roman Catholic Church Service tomorrow Wednesday, 17th November, 2021 at 1230 hours in the Senate Chamber. All Catholics and non-Catholic members are invited.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE VIRTUAL 49TH PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 49th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC-Parliamentary Forum held virtually from 25 to 27 June, 2021.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second Mr. President.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th November, 2021.
MOTION
CONSTRUCTION, UPGRADING AND REHABILITATION OF THE ROAD NETWORK IN THE COUNTRY
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the importance of a sound road network.
Question again proposed
HON. SEN. MABIKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. HON. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th November, 2021.
MOTION
ENACTMENT OF LAWS THAT CULMINATE IN DETERRENT SENTENCES BEING METED OUT TO CULPRITS FOUND COMMITTING CRIMES THAT DAMAGE THE ENVIRONMENT
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on grave and rapid environmental damage.
Question again proposed.
HON. CHIRONGOMA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MABIKA: I second Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENTOF SENATE: Order, order if you are going to second, you should press your microphone and stand up.
HON. MABIKA: I second Mr. President.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th November, 2021.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. SEN. REJOICE TIMIRE
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the untimely death of Honourable Senator Rejoice Timire.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you very much Mr. President Sir. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Khupe for bringing this very important motion …
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order you are not connected Hon. Sen. Mwonzora.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. President. Mr. President Sir, I want to appreciate the bringing in of this motion by Hon. Sen. Khupe. I also want to appreciate the very wise appointment of Hon. Sen. Rejoice Timire as our Senator in this Parliament. Despite the fact that she had such a self-effacing nature, she actually had a very rich history.
Hon. Sen. Timire had a good and impressive education. In 1990, she was a businesswoman of repute. However, in 1998, she had a life-changing accident somewhere in Cape Town. However, that did not deter her as she started new work. She was the Executive Director of the Women’s Disabled Support Organisation; she was a Board Member of the Women’s Bureau; NASCO and WASN. She however, succumbed to COVID-19 on 10th August, 2021 but for the remainder of her life, she was fighting for justice and equality of people with disabilities.
Mr. President Sir on paper, Zimbabwe is very impressive on the Rights of People Living with Disabilities. It ratified the United Nations Convention of Persons with Disabilities that was passed in 2006 and Zimbabwe ratified it in 2013. This Convention changes the approach to disability by many nations. The traditional approach was to view persons with disabilities as objects of charity requiring medical treatment, sympathy and social protection. The new approach treats people with disabilities as subjects with rights and who are able to claim those rights, make their own decisions and make free choices. It treats people with disabilities as people who must enjoy all the Human Rights and fundamental freedoms. It also calls for adaptation to make sure that people living with disabilities enjoy their fundamental rights.
Although Zimbabwe ratified this convention, it has not domesticated. I am happy however, Mr. President to note that in the Disability Policy, the fundamental issues in the convention are captured. The Constitution of Zimbabwe Mr. President contains one of the most comprehensive Bills Of Rights on the African continent and these rights must be enjoyed by every Zimbabwean including persons with disabilities without discrimination. These include the Right to Life; Freedom of Speech and Expression; Labour Rights; Political Rights and the Rights Against Discrimination.
Section 83 of our Constitution Mr. President Sir, gives persons with disabilities the Right to Self-reliance, the right to live with their families and participate in the social, creative and recreational life of the community. They are also given the Right to Protection against exploitation and abuse. Again in terms of Section 38, they have the Right to Access Medical, Psychological and Functional treatment. Importantly, persons with disabilities have the Right to Special Educational facilities as well as fully State-funded education. This is important Mr. President; persons with disabilities have been given the Constitutional Right to pursue their education to any level that they want.
They can start from primary education up to post graduate, post PhD. They are allowed in terms of the Constitution. Mr. President, let me take this opportunity to thank Hon. Minister, Prof. Mavima, the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare for coming up with the National Disability Policy. This policy is impressive Mr. President Sir. It emphasises the right to life for persons living with disabilities. It also gives economic empowerment and self reliance rights to persons with disabilities and makes sure that there is no discrimination in employment, hiring, employment retention, career advancement, safety and health of persons with disabilities.
It says that any discrimination is a criminal offence. The disability policy also says 15% of persons employed by the Public Service, private sector must be persons with disabilities. It also emphasises on satisfactory living conditions of persons with disabilities. The policy also provides the right of persons living with disabilities to fully participate in the cultural life, recreation and leisure in the community. It prohibits cultural and religious practices that affect persons with disabilities.
The policy goes on to say the music and sport for persons with disabilities must be promoted and goes on to say exploitation, violence and abuse of persons with disabilities must be a criminal offence. The disability policy goes on to say that persons with disabilities are entitled to free access to health. In other words, they must be treated for free. It provides for habitation and rehabilitation facilities for persons with disabilities. It emphasises that for persons with disabilities, education must be free and that they must be exempted from paying school fees.
The policy goes on to say that persons with disabilities are entitled to full sexual rights including the rights to reproductive health. It goes on to talk of older persons as a special group within the group of persons with disabilities. It goes on to say that these old persons must be free to live where they want. It is against the practice of taking older persons and dumping them at old people’s homes against their will. The policy also goes on to provide for assistive devices for personal mobility and communications of persons with disabilities. It also goes on to provide for equal access to schools, housing, medical facilities as well as workplaces. It talks of access to roads sidewalks which must provide facilities for persons with disabilities.
The policy Mr. President Sir, goes on to specifically mention children with disabilities who are given special facilities, including the right to free education and recreation. It goes on again to look at women with disabilities and gives them special rights. It talks of social protection and poverty reduction facilities for persons with disabilities. This is an impressive policy Mr. President Sir. I want to thank the Minister for coming up with that policy. The policy also talks of freedom against torture, inhuman and degrading treatment making it an offence to do those things to people with disabilities. It talks of protection of persons with disabilities against violation of their bodily integrity. It would be an offence to assault, or in any way to harass physically or psychologically persons with disabilities. It provides for access to justice, liberty and protection of privacy for these persons. In other words, disability can be obvious but it may not be so obvious as well, and they are given right to privacy.
The Minister, in the policy goes on to say, persons with disabilities must fully participate in the political affairs of the nation and can pursue public life as they wish without being subjected to any reprisals. He goes on to lastly talk about the need for awareness. More importantly, the policy says, all traditional leaders and all Members of Parliament must be trained on disability issues, especially how to handle human rights.
This is a very impressive policy. The Constitution is good, the Convention that we have ratified is good, the policy is good; however, policy is not law. So all that the Minister has provided in the policy must be reduced into law and must be actionable. The rights given under policy Mr. President Sir, are simply rights or agreements binding in honour. They are not enforceable. What the Minister should do is to make sure that we align the laws to the Constitution. In that regard, we need the new disability Act. We need the Disability Act to contain the rights that have been impressively put in the disability policy. As things stand Mr. President Sir, the persons with disabilities are the most excluded from opportunities to fully participate in the community life of Zimbabwe. They are also vulnerable to violence and exploitation. In this regard, children with disabilities are most affected. The policy realises that about 15% of Zimbabweans are people with disabilities and that transforms into 2 250 persons according to statistics but the figure could be more than that.
As legislators and as policy makers in Zimbabwe, we must learn from Sen. Timire’s life. She was an able-bodied beautiful woman until she met with an accident. This can happen to anyone. It can happen to anyone of us and because it can happen to anyone of us, we must make sure that we make policies that will protect these people. One of our constitutional duties is to make policies for the good and just governance of the people of Zimbabwe.
With these words, Mr. President, I want to thank once again Hon. Sen. Khupe for bringing this motion and to the Timire family, I want to express my condolences. She was a very friendly person to me and I always miss looking back because she always sat right behind me. We used to chat. I say that she fought a good fight and she was a conqueror in her life. She conquered in love and she departed in peace. Unfortunately, because it was COVID, we could not give her the befitting goodbye that we should have given her. With these words, I would like to end here Mr. President Sir. I thank you.
#HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE-KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to express my condolences to the Timire family. I also would like to thank Senator Khupe for bringing this debate. Mr. President, I met Sen. Timire in the Sustainable Development Goals Committee. We all know that she was disabled but she did not only wait for us to discuss on disability issues each time we met but she discussed about these issues freely at any given time. She was just free to discuss these issues just like any free able able-bodied person.
Since you know that Committees get opportunities to tour different places, our Committees also used to make these tours, especially to primary and secondary schools. There are very few primary and secondary schools that have toilets that cater for disabled people. Most toilets if not all in schools can only accommodate able-bodied people but Senator Timire did not complain about using toilets that are not easily accessible to the disabled. She never complained about that at all.
We all know that our roads, especially in the rural areas are bumpy but Senator Timire in most cases used her own car on these roads and we could never get to where we were going before her. She would be the first to get to the destination. We will always remember her as someone who was so hard working. Thank you Mr. President.
(v)HON. SEN. KHUPE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th November, 2021.
MOTION
ENACTMENT OF LEGISLATION THAT UPHOLDS THE RIGHTS AND WELFARE OF CHILDREN ACCOMPANYING INCARCERATED MOTHERS IN PRISONS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on challenges faced by children of incarcerated mothers.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th November, 2021.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI, the Senate adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Four o’clock. p. m.