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SENATE HANSARD 16 August 2016 25-68
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th August, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SWITCHING OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: May I please
remind Hon. Members to put their cellphones on silent or switch them off. Thank you.
PAN-AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY BILL [H.B. 10, 2015]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GANDAWA): Madam President,
the world is changing at a rapid pace, driven largely by developments in science and technology. It has become evident that countries that are scientifically and technologically advanced become strong competitors on global markets, therefore generate income, higher wages and wealth.
The African mineral industry has evolved largely as a producer for foreign export markets. The developed countries are focusing primarily on technological development programmes that emphasise value added and high margin products, while encouraging developing countries (mostly African) to remain primary producers of minerals. African countries must embark on value addition to their minerals. Value addition of mineral resources cannot be achieved by labour intensive methods alone but rather via a technology based approach. Despite its enormous mineral resource, Sub Saharan Africa (SSA) has not been able to adequately harness its endowments for its sustainable development and this has been attributed to lack of skills, knowledge, technology, infrastructure for innovation and entrepreneurship. Africa needs world class R&D institutions in the minerals sector with linkages to the fabrication sector.
THE AFRICAN INSTITUTIONS OF SCIENCE AND
In February 2001, IMF Managing Director, Horst Kohler, and World Bank President, James Wolfensohn, travelled to Africa to meet with African leaders as a follow-up to their commitment at the Prague
2000 Annual Meeting. During one of the meetings, the then President of South Africa, Nelson Mandela, lamented the knowledge deficit in Africa to Mr. Wolfensohn. President Mandela went on to suggest to the World
Bank that world class African Institutes of Science and Technology
(AISTs) in Sub Saharan Africa were perhaps Africa’s greatest need. Their focus is on what is missing in our developmental system, i.e postgraduate education, research and innovation linked to entrepreneurship.
In January 2005, at the 4th Ordinary Session of the African Union Assembly in Abuja, the African Heads of State and Government agreed to establish four AISTs, one each in Western, Eastern, Northern and Southern Africa. The AISTs are run by the Nelson Mandela Institution, supported by the World Bank among other development partners.
Cureently, AISTs have been established namely, in West Africa, the African University of Science and Technology (AUST) in Abuja Nigeria which focuses on Energy and Petrochemical Engineering. The second one was established in Eastern Africa, Arusha, Tanzania, the Nelson Mandela African Institute of Science and Technology (NM AIST) which focuses on Life Sciences and Bio-Engineering. The third one was established in Northern Africa, Ougadougou (Burkina Faso) the International Institute for Water and Environmental Engineering (2iE) which focuses on Water Engineering and Environment. The fourth one was to be established in Southern Africa.
Zimbabwe won the bid to establish a postgraduate Pan-African
Minerals University of Science and Technology (PAMUST) as an NMI centre of excellence dedicated to the teaching and training of very high calibre mineral professionals in mineral beneficiation and value addition for the African continent.
The basis of Zimbabwe’s successful bid to host PAMUST Zimbabwe has a vibrant mining sector with over 60 minerals, 40 of which are being mined. Therefore, Zimbabwe’s successful bid was based, among other factors, on its strength in mineral endowments, a developing industry, and also on the strong commitment that the leadership of Zimbabwe has towards education in general and the development of a world class institute for imparting knowledge on mineral beneficiation and value addition. Zimbabwe has well trained mineral experts that are sought after, the world over, and the country has the highest literacy rate in Africa.
With its central location in a mining region of Southern and
Central Africa, easy accessibility and a well-developed infrastructure,
Zimbabwe was judged to be the best candidate for hosting the AIST in
Southern Africa. The Sixteenth Summit of the 19 Member Common
Market for Eastern and Southern (COMESA) held from 23 to 24 November 2012, adopted a decision to support Zimbabwe in its bid to host the AIST for Southern Africa in light of the country’s potential to be the COMESA centre of excellence in mining and mineral beneficiation.
THE PAMUST CONCEPT
PAMUST will be established to provide very highly advanced post graduate courses and research (Masters, PhD and post – doctoral) in mineral value addition primarily and principally. Secondly, programmes in the ancillary courses and research in geology, mining and extractive metallurgy will also be offered at very advanced levels as necessary precursors to mineral value addition. Thirdly, PAMUST will offer advanced courses and research in business studies related to the minerals industry.
The PAMUST vision is to be an institution of the highest standing for advanced technology education in minerals. Its mission is to give the highest specialised instruction, and to provide the fullest equipment for the most advanced training and research in all aspects of mineral S & T and allied subjects, especially in its application to the exploitation of African mineral resources for the maximum benefit of Africa.
3.1 PAMUST Academic Programme Areas
The following five (5) programme areas will be offered:
- Mining Engineering.
- Extractive Metallurgy (beneficiation).
- Mineral Science and Engineering for Mineral Value
- Minerals Business Studies.
PAMUST Academic Features
PAMUST will be established primarily as a state post-graduate university offering Maters Degree courses and providing research at PhD and post-doctorate levels. It will be a pan African Institution to serve a comprehensive array of needs in the mining industry for the whole continent. PAMUST vision is to be a world class institution with the most advanced facilities for teaching and training the best and brightest African students and serviced by world class academics. Because of the needs of the continent, PAMUST will aim to produce a critical mass of graduates who will serve as lecturers/professors in colleges/school of mines continent wide, man R&D institutions for value addition in various countries, provide leadership in industry and
PAMUST OUTPUTS AND EXPECTED IMPACT
Established of world-class environment for research and technology development for the African mining industry with capacity to generate and apply knowledge for sustainable development will be a primary output. Linkages with the mining sector to utilise research to improve quality, productivity and competitiveness of the African industry will be developed. Specifically PAMUST will produce valueadded human capital Master’s and PhD graduates with sound knowledge on mining development for deployment in Universities and Schools of Mines in Africa, Minerals and Materials R and D institutions, industry and Government. PAMUST itself will be a depository of information on mining issues on the continent.
Production of world-class PhDs within and relevant to problems and needs of the region and Southern Africa will increase, thereby reducing brain drain. Currently, about 500 000 Africans study abroad, and about 30 000 African PhDs live abroad. This will result in the reduction to necessary levels, the numbers of expatriates employed in Africa. Currently, Africa employs about 150 000 expatriates at a cost of approximately US$4 billion per annum. Increased participation by
African institutions in research on Africa’s minerals carried out by researchers from institutions abroad, and hence enhanced networking with such institutions. Promoting research at the continent-wide level will involve a pooling of resources. This will limit costs for any given country, while increasing the benefits for all – especially the very small, low-income countries. Smaller countries that lack the human and financial resources to sustain excellence in institutions of higher learning will benefit greatly from this Pan-African approach.
Benefits to Zimbabwe
PAMUST will immediately produce post-graduate academics who will fill the many vacant posts at Zimbabwe and Africa’s departments of geology, mining and metallurgy and abate severe shortages at these institutions.
PAMUST will seek to attract leading world experts, local and diasporan Africans to research on Zimbabwean and African minerals with a view to adding value to them with the creation of opportunities for downstream industries. With post-graduate dissertations and theses being carried out at the university, Zimbabwe will become a rich repository and a minefield of information on minerals to which the country will have a privileged, immediate and unrestricted access. This will be a strategic empowerment of Zimbabwe in the global mineral economics. The PAMUST will be uniquely positioned to leverage research funding to the country for training scientists and engineers as part of a continental strategy on manpower development for other institutions in the continent. The university will contribute immensely in the transformation of Zimbabwe from a resource-based economy to a knowledge-based economy as a result of minerals value addition, value added products, downstream industries, business opportunities, employment creation, skills enhancement, and technology transfer.
Historically, a key methodology for human capacity development by African countries has been to send their brightest students overseas for studies, with the earnest hope that they will return and serve their countries. This, to some extent has been a successful model, albeit at a significant cost. Some of the students do not return at all, or come back to a frustrating mismatch between their training environment overseas and a non-stimulating local working environment, rendering them less productive. PAMUST essentially seeks to be an institute on the African continent, whose teaching and R & D facilities are at par with the best in the developed world. Further, its teaching staff will be world class. In this context, PAMUST will seek to attract, some of the brains across the globe to teach Zimbabwe and other African students. This will involve PAMUST being a key continental repository of international staff exchange programmes. The PAMUST model, which brings the best international brains, including retired professionals, to teach and train Zimbabwe and African scientists on the continent, will rapidly accelerate Africa’s human capacity development at a fraction of the cost of sending Zimbabwe and African students overseas.
PAMUST Academic Governance Issues
PAMUST shall be an internationally recognised centre of excellence in the development of innovative sustainable, technically advanced solutions in the beneficiation and value addition of minerals, with its main operational base on the African continent. It shall offer postgraduate courses and study programmes aimed at molding future leaders in technology innovation and knowledge-based development.
Recruitment of both students and staff shall mainly be from African continent on the basis of merit. English shall be the medium of instruction and also the language of academic, administrative, and most social and community activities that are part of the PAMUST experience.
PAMUST Administrative Issues
PAMUST will be established as a State University. The governance structure summarised below shall guide and oversee the establishment, growth and required development of this university. The Chancellor of the PAMUST shall be the President of the Republic of
Zimbabwe. A University Council whose membership is drawn from the African region will be appointed by the Chancellor. A Chairman of the
Council of Pan African Minerals University of Science and Technology (PAMUST) who is a person of international repute with vast experience in governance issues of academic institutions; the President of
Zimbabwe will have the Appointing Authority for the first Council. The PAMUST will maintain a link with the NMI Board, and utilise the services of the International Advisory Bodies in matters related to academic business (instruction curricula, laboratory development, etc), quality assurance as well as advice on staff hire, recruitment and remuneration.
SIRDC will allocate to PAMUST about 80 hectares of its land that is not earmarked for construction. More land for PAMUST, if and when necessary, will be allocated from State land that is contiguous to SIRDC. Appropriate infrastructure will be built to the specifics of PAMUST master-plan.
SIRDC will allow PAMUST to start operating from SIRDC buildings some of which will need finishing. The Buildings Technology Institute building and its pilot plant, the library building and the building currently housing Biotechnology Research Institute and Food and
Biomedical Technology Institute will also be made available for use by
PAMUST. These buildings can be renovated to suit requirements of
SIRDC has analytical and testing equipment which PAMUST can use initially. The Institute of Mining Research which is nearby at the
University of Zimbabwe has some equipment which PAMUST will also use. Residential accommodation for lecturing staff, students and visiting professors will be built at SIRDC on the land that is earmarked for that purpose. Other students and staff may be transported to and from the
City of Harare.
PAMUST will initially rely on infrastructure on SIRDC for internet, water, electricity, sewerage and clinic. Resources are going to be pooled from joint efforts of African Governments, Government of
Zimbabwe, Nelson Mandela Institution, World Bank and other partners.
The Pan African Minerals University of Science Technology is earmarked to commence operations using existing infrastructure and facilities at SIRDC. Additional research facilities and support shall be sourced on a need basis from local State universities and colleges.
PAMUST will start with modest student enrolment as the development of infrastructure proceeds. All along, the ratio of Master’s to PhD students will be maintained at about 4:1. It is assumed that it will take 10 years, following its opening, for PAMUST to reach its full capacity, if resources inflow is as forthcoming as planned.
In order to leverage off the mining sector, targeted investment in human resources development and R & D is needed by the State and the mining companies.
Madam President, I move that the Pan African Minerals University of Science and Technology Bill [H.B.10, 2015] be read a second time.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I wish the speed of presentation could be slower so that we grasp what you are saying. We happen to be very old and at times if you read very fast we cannot hear the essence of
I was just reflecting and as a debate to this Bill that on his first presentation of the Budget Statement, the current Minister of Finance and Economic Development said that it a new normal era – I think this translates to the very normal situation that we have in our country that we have all the agreements and good policies acceded to and we have been passing Bills of so many universities for our country which we believe is for the good of our country, but we happen to be very poor and I was just wondering what our problem is. What exactly is wrong that we have everything but we have nothing out of it?
On issues of resources, I do not know whether it is good for us to know how much our Government, African Development Bank and the Nelson Mandela Institute are going to put in terms of contributions towards the success of the PAMUST. With these few words I want to thank you very much.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I would like to support the Minister
on this very important issue which he has brought before the Senate. I think it is very topical not only for this country but also for Africa and developing countries. It is timely and opportune when the world, especially developed countries are actually engaged in a scramble for resources in Third World countries in general. We have witnessed a scramble for resources for Africa and for us in Zimbabwe, I think everybody can see the amount of interest and attention which has been generated for our resources and minerals in particular. This country has got up to 21 minerals and most of those minerals are not found up in the North but here in Zimbabwe and South Africa.
The travesty of justice is that we are exporting those minerals in raw form. For example, in Zimbabwe we have platinum which has got a group of other minerals associated with it. We are extracting platinum and it goes out of the country to be refined elsewhere. What they tell us after they have refined our resources, we do not know whether it is true or not – the amounts which are given, but these are minerals in high demand.
We have got some African countries which produce oil, the number one resource in the world today. Oil has started wars in the Middle East but there are queues in those countries for petrol, diesel and paraffin and yet they are exporting oil. That oil is getting finished day and night. The list of the number of minerals and other resources which are being exported in a raw form is endless and those minerals are getting finished.
It is only right and just that we make substantial efforts to ensure that we engage in beneficiation so that we do not only create jobs for our people but we gain full value for those resources before they are exhausted, because they are going to be exhausted and our children will spit on our graves.
Madam President, why should we have bullion markets in the North? Gold is extracted mostly from this part of the world but it is marketed elsewhere because we are failing to engage in meaningful beneficiation. We are failing to ensure that our people participate and gain full value from the resources which we have.
I just want to caution the Minister on the issue of resources. That we should establish the university, there is no doubt in my mind, I am very clear, because it is the right thing to do for a country and continent which has got so much in terms of resources but which is not benefiting. We need to give these kinds of institutions a priority so that it lifts off in a proper manner. If you establish an institution such as this one and you fail to fund or resource it properly, we become a laughing stock of the North. They come here and see the university which is not properly resourced in terms of human and material resources, we will kill our reputation and we will destroy what is otherwise a noble and practical aim.
If we do not want to remain as poor African countries on a rich continent, we need to embark on meaningful ventures such as this which has been brought before this august Senate by the Minister. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I stand to add my voice to the current debate on this Pan African University. The first thing I would like to state is that I am gratified that Africa has started thinking and that is the Africa we want. That is the Africa we anticipate. That is the Africa our children should be looking forward to. It is good that the various regions in Africa have established these institutes. I see through these efforts what Thabo Mbeki conceptualised as NEPAD in a different form. I think we are going in the right direction. We should not lose that direction.
I would like to make the point as what my colleagues have alluded to, that we are endowed greatly as a nation and it is a shame that we can be poor in the midst of plenty. I also add to Hon. Gen. Nyambuya’s suggestion about financing. We have got the resources to finance the establishment of such a University. If we properly and I emphasise, properly managed our natural resources, particularly the underground resources, we should be able to pay whatever advance money that is given to us or we could actually, on a month to month basis contribute to fund that expense.
I would like to congratulate Zimbabwe on being able to win the bid to host this University. I also take the opportunity to urge us as a nation that we have been recognise by Africa, let us continue to earn our recognition and get more respect in terms of how we manage our own resources and in terms of how we will manage this University.
Madam President of the Senate, I would like to pose a question to the Minister; he indicated that the President of Zimbabwe – and I am not insinuating that he is incapable of constituting the Council, but why? This is a continental effort, why should the input come from only one President? Would we not enrich the process if we made sure that various countries made effort to the final decision? With these comments, Madam President of the Senate, I thank you.
HON. SEN. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President for giving me this privilege of commenting on the Mineral University of Science and Technology which I think we are all excited about. We appreciate that we are going to be hosting Africa and African issues on mineral and value addition training. My small comment is; “have we also sent our own people for training so that we do not fail to do the adequate training of students? Have we attached people in different universities or different firms outside the country who are already doing value addition, since we are sending our minerals out of this country unprocessed? They are processing and polishing the minerals outside the country to the countries which are still going to totally depend on other people from other countries, they will fail us in achieving the desired results. Once we start training without locals, it means we are going to look outside our country for people who will do the job. We must ensure that when we sell our processed minerals we will not be controlled. We should have our qualified people to lecture at the Mineral University to have a successful training or we send people elsewhere for training so that when this University becomes functional, they will be well versed on how to do the value addition to different minerals.
This is my contribution and I am pleased and happy that we are going to be Africa’s centre in minerals training. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. I also rise to add my voice to this debate on the Pan African Minerals University of Science and Technology. I want to agree with all those who have spoken before me in support this Bill; suffice to say we remain a rich continent with poor people. If we exploit such a venture, I think it will do us good as a region and as Zimbabwe in particular. Other regions have already taken initiatives as what Hon. Senator Nyambuya has said and the name Nelson Mandela Institute has already been taken by other regions and yet Nelson Mandela comes from this region and we are doing it as a last resort. All the same Minister, we welcome this. I personally welcome this Bill. As you have already alluded to in your submission Minister; Zimbabwe produces highly qualified academics and they are all over the world. This is one of the opportunities for them to come back and help develop Zimbabwe in particular and the region in general.
However, I just want clarification Minister, on the entry point of those who are going to enroll at PAMUST since it is a regional effort – if I heard you correctly, you said programmes start at post graduate level. How about offering places at first degree level as well, especially for us in Zimbabwe because we are hosting this as an initiative? The second clarification – you said SIRDC which is already operating here is going to offer land and buildings, what other obligations is the Government of Zimbabwe going to contribute? Is this going to be shared responsibility among the governments which are involved in the Southern region or our Government is going to take a large share of contributing or forming the establishment of this University?
The reasons for establishing this University have already been said, Zimbabwe being central with high literacy rate et cetera. We want to welcome the Bill and it is long overdue. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Madam President of the
Senate. I stand to congratulate the Minister for introducing this Bill on
PAMUST. I am grateful and congratulate the country of Zimbabwe through the leadership of His Excellency Cde. R. G. Mugabe who fully supports this programme. Zimbabwe is a blessed country; whenever there is any programme which comes up, we come into mind first that we be part of that developmental programme.
Thank you Minister for talking about science and technology, we are in a revolutionary world. We were looking at the facets of education and we have been informed that Zimbabwe is one of the countries with highly educated and qualified people and you find them all over the world. That is because we have intelligent people but we were lagging behind in the progress of science and technology. When you look at the kind of education we have had as Zimbabweans, we are only mainly into Arts but when it comes to minerals and mining we had to get some expatriates to come and perform these specialised duties. Zimbabwe has highly educated people; we did not have engineers or any other people into scientific programmes.
The introduction of this Bill which talks of the establishment of a
University means that we are going to develop highly and Zimbabwe is going to develop. We are known for that but what is left is for us to implement this Bill. We are very grateful and very supportive of this Bill. I thank you Madam President of the Senate.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President of the Senate. I am so happy and want to support this motion. I also want to add my voice. Firstly, this has touched on our minerals, which we are all aware that we have an abundance of them, but we are not yet able to extract or know where they are. So, I think this will help
I come from a gold rich area. We have stayed in our areas for quite a long time, but you find that people discover gold which means we are not yet knowledgeable in knowing where the minerals are, even the diamonds. We stayed in those areas for quite a long time, but no one was aware that there were diamonds there, which means even here where Parliament is, probably there is platinum and we might be told to relocate. So it is very important that we be knowledgeable. I want to thank Africa for trusting Zimbabwe, that we are the ones who are going to lead. What I am saying is, as a country, we should not bring disgrace to other nations.
I think whatever we are trying to do, it should come out well so that as Africa, we are not ridiculed that we are sitting on gold and are poor. This is rampant in all Africa. If you go to Antwerp where diamonds are taken or even Europe, they do not have diamond mines, but we know that we sell 70% of our diamonds there. It is because they are clever. That is what we want to gain from this university but I want to say to the Minister, when we are looking at these minerals, I think we should remain technical. I do not know how you are going to do it.
I think it should also look into things that are hindering our progress which is not scientific. If you look at DRC, you will find that DRC is rich in minerals but there is no peace because people want to take those minerals. I read in the newspaper today about 45 people who were killed in the eastern DRC because of minerals. People will talk about rebels and firearms. I do not know how we are going to do it but I think this university should also address conflict issues because this is hindering us from getting what we should realise from our minerals. I also want to say if you look at DRC, Angola and Sierra Leone, these rich countries benefited from their minerals. So, if we do not look at that, we lose a lot because of instability.
Going further, having those minerals, the university should also spread the word that this is knowledge which is cognitive knowledge – IQ. We should have people who have passion for their people, who love their people so that the management and the people that you are going to give jobs should know that when you talk about minerals, it is directed to people. These minerals should not be company owned. They should not only enrich themselves as they are the only ones who are exporting when the people in those areas are not benefiting.
If you remember in this Parliament in 2012, we were given a report in the Budget. I remember it quite clearly, in the Mid-Term Policy, they said from January to July we only got US$600 million from minerals, but the money that was channeled or remitted to the Government was only US$15 million. They realised US$600 million, but remitting US$15 million only. We then say we are rich in minerals, but it is all because of the formulae that is being used. How does that money come to the people? It is very important Madam President. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you very much Madam President. I
want to thank the Hon. Senators for their contributions, I want to first thank Hon. Mlotshwa for her contribution and want to agree with her that we have everything in Zimbabwe. She is worried why we are not progressing while we have everything in Zimbabwe. I am very sure that by harnessing the technology as well as the human resources that we want to train, we should be able to close those gaps so that the country moves forward.
You also asked how much the Government is going to contribute and many Senators also indicated or wanted to know as to how much or what is the contribution of Government. As a Government, this university is a continental university. It is not a Zimbabwean university.
Most of the funding for this university is going to come from the World Bank as well as the Nelson Mandela Institute. All governments in the continent contribute to the establishment of this university. The Government of Zimbabwe is contributing the land as well as the infrastructure that we are already using at the IRDC, but all in all, the money should be coming from the World Bank as well as all other governments. Our contribution for the land is part of our contribution to the whole. Also our mines, our institutions, the mining, will be the fields where the students will also go and practice. So, the mining institutions will also contribute on the construction of the laboratories and so on, in their respective premises where the students will be working from.
I want to thank Hon. Senator Nyambuya for the support. Indeed, it is very important that the country and the continent gets this university. He mentioned that we have 21 minerals. These 21 minerals are the ones that are being mined, but we have 60 minerals and 40 of these minerals are not being mined to some extent because of what Senator Chief Charumbira has said that we do not have the expertise to know the exploration. We tend to seek from abroad, to get expertise to tell us where our minerals are and in most cases when they discover the minerals, they do not leave the data. They tend to go away with the information and it makes us remain poor.
Exporting raw material like platinum; we send it out and then people are always crying. I always read in the papers when they complain to say, we cannot create employment, we cannot create jobs. Yes, we cannot create jobs if we are creating jobs for other countries because the processing and mining does not take as many employees as the downstream industries that come with processing the materials. So, if we are able to correct that aspect to make sure that we mine, we process and then send the product out of the country, we are then able to create employment for our people and even grow the industry. So, we are very sure that the creation of such a facility and institution which will aid and strengthen the capacity of our institution will also create employment for us.
General Nyambuya says we should give priority. It is very pertinent to mention that priority must be given to…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order Hon.
Minister. General Nyambuya is Honourable.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Sorry, Hon. Nyambuya. He mentioned the
need to give priority to the institution. As I have already alluded to, since the funding is coming specifically for the institution, the money will be given to the institution to develop the institution.
Hon. Sen. Sibanda, I want to thank you for your support and gratification and we appreciate your support. You mentioned a very pertinent issue where we need to run our institutions professionally. I want to agree with you that the institution will be run professionally. However, you questioned why the President must be the one who appoints the Council. The President appoints a Council in his capacity as the Head of State, but the actual process of identifying the members of Council is done by professional bodies in consultation with various stakeholders in the country as well as regionally and the continent. So, it is a whole pool of professionals that the President only assesses and endorses a wide process that would have been done by officials who recommend to the President for endorsement.
Hon. Sen. Khumalo, I want to thank you for your support. We are capacitating our people but the establishment of the university will create a pool of skilled people for value addition and beneficiation which will mean that even our people who are already trained outside will come back and work in our industries. You asked whether we have already started attaching people in companies outside to gain skills. We already have a lot of our experts who are in the diaspora and are willing to come home to work. In the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development, we have a website which is called the Human Capital website, where so many people apply for jobs to come back home and work. So, we are very sure that we have our people who are willing to give us expertise. However, some of the people might also even work from wherever they are with the advent of technology. They can contribute their skills from there, using virtual learning.
Hon. Sen. Mumvuri, I want to thank you for your support. We appreciate your support, but you posed a question on the entry point. Why are we starting at post-graduate level? You said you want to start at undergraduate. Our universities such as the University of Zimbabwe, National University of Science and Technology already have undergraduate programmes. We even have the School of Mines, they already have programmes taught at undergraduate level. So, this university must be a centre of excellence that produces high skills that we do not have currently. The graduates coming from the currently running universities will then enroll into this university for post-graduate studies and research.
Suffice to say that, this will be their main niche, the Masters and Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), the post-graduate. However, it does not stop the institution from offering even lower programmes or shortcourses for artisanal miners to assist them and capacitate them to run their small mining ventures. The obligation of Zimbabwe is to professionally run the institution administratively but the funding comes from various partners.
Hon. Mawire, I would like to thank you for supporting this Bill. It is true that the expertise and skill of using machines was not available and we hope that this university will increase the number of professionals within Zimbabwe and across Africa who will be able to use scientific machines used in our industries.
I would also like to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira for your support of this Bill. It is true that there was little expertise and skill. We did not have the expertise to locate the presence of minerals but I am hopeful that the launch of this university will bring forth the missing expertise and skills and we will be able to survey and explore the location of our minerals. We will also be able to obtain knowledge on how to beneficiate those minerals so that our wealth can be enhanced.
As an industrious people, I hope that we will not shame our country and the whole continent in our venture to ensure that this university comes to fruition.
You also indicated the issue of conflicts, giving the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) as a reference point. It is true that conflicts lead to instability and inability to fully exploit the available minerals. It is already evident through the attacks and criticism we are going through because of the wealth that we have. However, I am hopeful that the country’s stability – we have another University Bill that was passed earlier, the Defence University Bill. We are confident that Defence University will work in collaboration with the university under discussion in terms of ensuring that national stability and the expertise prevails.
You also spoke about humanity within our leadership so that we are able to maintain and mould leadership with people at heart and are able to lead these institutions with the highest level of integrity. This will ensure that we do not come up with an elitist kind of university, but encompass people from all walks of life in order to ensure that the whole populace and not a few individuals benefit. We also hope that even the universities will educate people that it is important to ensure that our nation develops so that we all benefit.
On the leaking of minerals and other natural resources, we intend to introduce a course known as the Minerals Business Studies. There was little knowledge on this and we were getting little benefit on our minerals because we were throwing away a lot of things as waste whilst getting little on our resources. I am hopeful that the launch of this university will give rise to our country’s development so that our wealth can be retained. I now move that the Pan-African Minerals University of Science and Technology Bill [H.B. 10, 2015] be read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
PAN AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY BILL [H.B. 10, 2015]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9:
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you very much Chairperson. I
support this Bill. This is enrichment to Zimbabwe but will the Minister explain some Sections of this Bill where he talked about the powers of the President in electing the Board with the assistance of various institutions which will be even background to those individuals.
Where does Parliament of Zimbabwe come in recommending
individuals to sit into this board? Maybe I have asked my question at an inappropriate time but all I want to hear is if Parliament of Zimbabwe going to make a contribution in the appointment of the council which runs this institution. So, who are the other people who are involved besides the President?
THE CHAIRPERSON (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA):
Senator Marava, are you talking of the University Council which is on Clause 12? Right now we are debating the Chancellor.
Clauses 9 to 11 put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President. I am happy
that the Minister had already heard my question. When you talk of the powers of the President to elect these members of this council, who are some of these people who will give the recommendations to His Excellency?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you for the question. When you look closely at Clause 12, which states the personalities and characters of people who will appoint the members of this council, it states that, (a) the Chairperson of the council is appointed by the Chancellor, (b), the
Vice Chancellor (c) every Pro-Vice Chancellor of the university, (d) one representative nominated by the Ministry responsible for mines in
Zimbabwe, (e) one member representing the Zimbabwe Council for Higher Education, ZIMCHE, I do not know if I should continue reading because this is well explained. All relevant ministries will be asked to send representatives in that council and these also represent the members of the Children’s representatives, regional Chambers of Mines will also have somebody to represent them.
The Nelson Mandela Board will put its own member, African Union Commission also puts its own, and African Academy of Sciences will put its own as well. These will elect their own members and then send them to our Ministry for us to compile and then send to the President for signing.
*HON. MARAVA: While everything is in order Mr. President, I
have got a light feeling that this House while it has passed this Bill which we rejoice in passing it, I think there was need for a feedback to this House so that we can also just proceed together rather than leaving
Parliament at the stage where you would have started. I know it will be Executive implementing its own things but I think there was need for you to come back to this House.
HON. DR. GANDAWA: I understand what the Hon. Senator is
saying but if we were to follow that, there will be a conflict with these institutions and yet we have given them the autonomy to run their affairs following the laid down procedures. However, if they abrogate some of the rules and regulations given, that is when we may have to consult with Parliament or the Government – but if these institutions are
Following the laid down rules, there is no need for interference by any other bodies.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NEMBIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I
have got a feeling that there is a gap because I feel as the Chiefs we are the custodians of the riches underground especially those. So, we feel as the custodians of this cultural effect we need to be included in this board.
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: It is known and also welcomed that the Chiefs could be incorporated into these councils but we are now saying the Chiefs can work hand in hand with the Chamber of Mines and any other mining bodies. This is where the chiefs will be incorporated to give guidance on the rules of the sacred places of these areas. So, maybe in the future we need to look into the inclusion of chiefs in such councils
Clause 12 put and agreed to.
Clauses 13 to 36 put and agreed to.
Schedule put and agreed to.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: with leave, forthwith.
PAN AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY BILL [H.B. 8, 2015]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (DR. GANDAWA): Madam President, I move
that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWANGWA: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th August, 2015.
SECOND REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON EARLY CHILD
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Early Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon. Sen. Makore. This is a very touching issue, when I debate it I get very emotional. Becoming a housewife is a very heavy task because it involves such issues as taking care of your husband and running the home. When you are talking of a young girl who has not been exposed to such knowledge, yet at the end of the day this little girl instead of running the home to prepare for her husband, she will be found playing in the playground with other youngsters. In the past, there was a case whereby young girls were married from the early age of 10. When this lady grows to 20 years, the man would feel that he is fed up with this young girl and chases the lady away to take another young girl. Why should this man be so ungrateful and cruel that he is always looking for younger or little girls yet he is older. We are talking of a young girl who is not even aware of how to take care of her sanitary wear. I beg the people of Zimbabwe to let the little girls mature into adulthood. We also want professionals who are ladies. They should be allowed to become presidents, ministers and chief executive officers who are women.
When this young girl is married off at such a tender age, she has no way of progressing in life. On the other hand, the young man or man who has impregnated her will continue advancing with his education while the little girl’s comes to an end. Let the girls mature so that you can enjoy all the benefits from marrying a mature lady. I take the analogy of fruits, if you take a fruit which has not yet ripened and eat it, it is bitter and sour. It has a bad taste.
When you are talking of being married and you are in the house, there is supposed to be some sexual relationship. If you know what you are doing, you really enjoy the relationship but if this little girl is married off at an early age, she will never enjoy this sexual relationship. She will be oppressed for the rest of her life because whenever she thinks about men, she has that hatred. Whenever she thinks of the man coming home, this little girl will be so angry that she vents her anger on playing games with girls or young men of her age. Please, let these little girls grow up. This is the same with men. You will never find a young man marrying because he is not yet mature but when he is mature, he marries. We are taking advantage of these little girls. This is tantamount to raping. Let them grow and make their own choices. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th August, 2016.
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
PEACE AND SECURITY ON THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY’S
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security on the state of the Country’s Borders.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to debate on this motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri regarding the porous nature of our borders. We had a very interesting time when we visited the border posts such as Beitbridge and Plumtree border posts and had an in loco inspection. Most of our observations were raised in our report.
Overally, we are saying we need to tighten security at our borders because we observed that security was lacking and we did make some submissions. The boundaries are not really fenced off with security fence and the roads are not properly maintained. We know of a road which is ironically called Binya road. It is one of the roads which are used by the illegal cross borders. This is where we get contraband coming into the country. We also have some official imported goods coming in and even the exports and therefore, need to be properly taken care of.
We also heard of some people who illegally cross these borders through the river which is infested with crocodiles. We need to prepare the security of these borders so that people are protected. When we talk about illegal crossing, in Shona we say kupoya and in Ndebele we say ukufohla. We observed that it is of prime importance that these borders be well protected security wise.
As for the workers who are at the border, we noticed that they are also multi-tasking. As a result of multitasking by individuals, there are delays leading to lots of frustration because there is either duplication of service or multitasking by individuals. All I am trying to do is to cover the gap for some of the issues which were not raised during our visits. We are pleading with the Government to work on the security system on our borders and also have the correct manpower operating from the border posts. We know that our country will never expand anyway but the existing borders have to be protected.
We have to look for ways of dealing with or assisting people who are living on the borders of the country especially the Beitbridge border post. There are also people who may need to be moved but where will they go. We also need to have some scanning machines which can be used in the inspection of goods which are either being exported or imported so that they are properly documented. In Plumtree, we realised that it had better security and was very orderly compared to these other borders like Beitbridge.
We know we raise Government revenue of $2 million per day from the taxes. We are not very sure if this is the correct amount that we should be getting because we saw some people who were importing illegally some contraband into the country. Contraband is bleeding the country’s fiscus. We need to close these loopholes so that we will be able to save more money. Instead of collecting $2 million for ZIMRA per day, we may collect more cash. Sometimes you find that there are also corrupt officials who are benefiting from that. We were also briefed by officials manning these border posts that they retain an amount of $100 000 which is used for the upkeep of these premises. We need to thoroughly investigate and see how there could be a return on investment.
Mr. President, I do now want to say much but I would like to thank the mover of this motion, Hon. Sen. Mumvuri for bringing the report to this august Senate.
+HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I would like to thank the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security because it carried out some investigations and noticed that there were things which were happening at the border and as a result, this was brought up in the report which was raised in this Senate.
This report talked about a lot of things which are happening at the border. We realise that ZIMRA is collecting US$2m per day and this is a lot of money especially when it comes to the development of the country because this is the money which is levied from people who are importing goods into the country especially bulk importers. Government has also put up the regulations that whosoever is going out of the country, there is a certain amount of money which is stipulated for those going out of the country for their sustenance whilst they are out of the country.
As tourists, we travel in buses all the time when we go outside the country where we sometimes buy some of the things which are not permitted. For example, people purchase goods worth $10 000 and yet your rebate is about $200. This is impoverishing the country and our coffers will run dry.
I also want to congratulate this Committee for carrying out this mammoth task by opening up our eyes so that we get to be aware of what is going on at our borders. One of the contributors talked about Binya road which are illegal crossing points which are used by people who will be bringing in contraband and at times, this results in people being killed because they will be crossing at illegal crossing points with not proper documentation. I am therefore, appealing to the security forces in this country that they should look for ways and means of shutting down all these illegal crossing points because we have lost a lot of our children when going to South Africa. Every time you are asked about your child, you tell people that my child has gone to South Africa for greener pastures and yet that child will have been killed at these illegal crossing points, like the crocodile infested Limpopo River.
The report also revealed that there are also illegal happenings at these borders such as the illegal externalisation of money. We are saying no to corruption. Whenever you want to bring in your goods, you should declare your goods and pay the stipulated duty on those goods so that our country does not lose revenue. I emphasise once again that we need to tighten security at our borders.
I now turn to the officials who are operating from the border posts. My own thinking is that these officers should be put on a rotational basis. Nobody should stay for a long time at one entry point because that is what leads to corruption for they will get ways and means of enriching themselves. If they are rotated, they will not be any time to indulge in these nefarious activities. I once again appeal to the security forces to look for ways and means of arresting these corrupt people who want to benefit financially at the expense of the country. They are letting the country down. We should stop these leakages. Let us seal and protect our borders so that the country benefits.
At any given time, there are almost 20 buses at the border which will be going out of the country carrying people who will bring in contraband and yet these people will buy goods which are beyond what is limited to them. The most painful thing is that when money is taken out of the country, it remains in South Africa and the country does not benefit. We know that when we are in an economic crisis, everyone of us in the country suffers because of those people who indulge in corrupt activities. I am urging the powers that be, that everybody who is operating from the border should pay the stipulated duties. I am not only talking about Beitbridge but also Plumtree, Chirundu, Victoria Falls and Forbes border posts. Let us tighten security at our border posts.
We also have some illegal crossing points where we have the second hand clothing coming in and we wonder how are they managing to bring in these second hand clothes “mazitye” and yet we want to raise funds for our country which is also trying to shut out these second hand clothes so that we can sustain our local manufacturers who are being choked out of production by these cheap clothing which are coming into the country. The worst part of it is that no taxes or duties are paid on these second hand clothes.
In conclusion, I would like to say everybody who is importing goods into the country should declare their goods and pay the stipulated duty on the goods they are importing. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President. I am also a member of this Committee which is chaired by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri. I again emphasise that the situation is untenable at our borders. This is what we observed when we held this outreach programme and we noticed that business was being done in a haphazard manner. We realised that the officials were involved in corrupt activities. This was sure in comparison with the crossing point at Ramakobane. Ramakobane was more organised, developed and advanced because when you compare with what is happening at Beitbridge; Beitbridge crossing point is a torture to the travelers. We believe when women travelers reach their destinations they will be so tired and frustrated because of the problems they go through at the Beitbridge border post.
Part of the reason of this discomfort is the way the officers at the border post operate. At times they cannot operate the scanning machines which are used at the border, which are supposed to ease the burden on these inspectors. The cross border traders have to unload all the goods which they have and this takes time because they will so loaded. When they have unloaded the trailers or the baggage which they have, the ZIMRA officials will take their time to examine these goods.
We now have middlemen who come to take advantage of these women and they offer their services to these ladies. They will be so tired because it takes a minimum of 12 hours for them to go through that business. We are saying we need to look for ways of resuscitating these scanners, repair them and bring them back to business. I know
Zimbabwe is in a cash crisis but we need to look at it to ease the burden. Ramakobane is at the border of Botswana and Zimbabwe, it is well organised and the officials were very professional and the way they operate is satisfactory and professional.
Every cloud has a silver lining and in this case the dark cloud despite the silver lining was the treatment meted out to Zimbabweans who are being deported from Botswana. Some of these people at Romakobane; when we went for this in loco inspection, we met with people who were coming from Botswana. When they came, they allowed these transporters some distance away from the border and they are given inhuman treatment. This is the worst practice of human rights which is meted out to deportees from Botswana, especially the Zimbabweans. We realised that most of the males were literally assaulted on their backs and they had scars. When we asked why they were given this corporal punishment which leaves such scars, the reason was that these scars show that you were an illegal immigrant and you were punished but you have come back for the second time.
We also asked where the beatings took place and we were told that the Chiefs were responsible for this corporal punishment but women were not subjected to this corporal punishment, but were deported together with the babies who were sired by Botswana nationals. The young girls were coming from Buhera, Gutu and all over Zimbabwe. When we asked as to why they were illegally crossing into Botswana, they said they were going to seek for employment and they are running away from problems in Zimbabwe. This really pained me and I said, why is it that the people of Zimbabwe are receiving corporal punishment from the Chiefs in Botswana? Why do not we create a platform for the Chiefs of Zimbabwe and the Chiefs of Botswana so that they hold consultative meetings and compare the way Chiefs in Zimbabwe treat Botswana citizens. We do not subject them to inhuman corporal punishment, we have many people from Botswana who were educated and who do business in Zimbabwe.
We are saying we want them to reciprocate this hand of friendship and we are appealing to the ministries such as Ministry of Foreign
Affairs and Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to hold a meeting between the traditional Chiefs of Zimbabwe and the traditional Chiefs of Botswana because people have always been crossing borders from time immemorial. Therefore let us give Chiefs the time to stay together and explain why they are subjecting people of Zimbabwe to such inhuman punishment.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Mr. President of the Senate for giving me this time to debate on the report by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri and Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungubane. I want to thank them for the report and the even handedness of the report, the positive critique of what takes place at the border especially in particular at Beitbridge, the positiveness of the structure and the good work displayed at Plumtree. Those are the two borders we went to. The report was very well written even handed, I only wish to make a comment on the poor structures which in my view we urge the Government of the ministries concerned to take action.
Right now we have this slogan of “against corruption together”. Any individuals in the ministry who when tasked to do a job and deliberately does not take action when things are wrong - really that can be construed as corruption. What is happening at Beitbridge is just unacceptable. They generate US$2m, I do not think or agree that we do not have the money, something must be done by lead ministries, Home Affairs and Finance and Economic Development to correct the situation.
We need state of the art border at Beitbridge to reduce corruption or the duplication of duties which becomes intentional when people see a situation where there is a loophole, they just take advantage. You cannot have anyone asking for a passport, any policemen - all working together, that is unacceptable Mr. President of the Senate. That should be properly structured and there should be order and we should know exactly who is inspecting who. Yes, they should work together in curbing corruption, but the way it is done at Beitbridge is just not acceptable. A good example of state of the art equipment is the Chirundu border posts. On several occasions I have crossed, it does not take you an hour to cross, that is what is needed at Beitbridge. It should be done the same thing. The money is there. I do not go along to say there is no money. So, in that respect, Mr. President, I think the report was brilliant. It was good, except we just want the lead Ministries to take note and take corrective action.
On human rights, as has been alluded to by some Senators regarding the abuse, the beating of people, it is interesting and also it is a bit disappointing. The border in Plumtree is artificial. People live on both sides really. There is really no such big thing like a river or anything. Most of the people are on both sides of the artificial border. So, I do not understand the culture in Botswana where chiefs take it upon themselves to beat people. I do not understand it. As has been said, I also make the same appeal, Mr. President, that the chiefs should take an active role in this one. Talk to your fellow chiefs that it is unAfrican and it is unSouthern African to start beating somebody’s children. If they make a mistake, you tell us, your children are here, come and collect them, you do not beat them.
So with those few words I thank you Mr. President, I thank the
Chair for the report. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Maybe
because I have some privileged information. It is not their culture that they are beating those people. It is their country’s law. It is actually passed by Parliament. It is not their culture but that it is actually the law itself, their own statutory law. A part of their justice system which is part of their general law. I would agree that the chiefs meet, but it is coming from their law which is in an Act of Parliament. It gives them more powers than us. They deal with criminal cases such as livestock theft and they can sentence a person up to seven years. Here in
Zimbabwe, we do not have such powers.
HON. SEN. MVURI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th August, 2016.
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE STATUS OF CHILDREN’S HOMES
Fifth order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the Status of Children’s Homes.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Senator Makore for introducing this motion on the
Children’s Homes. I am a member of the Committee which visited several of these orphanages, but out of all these places, there was one home which touched me and this is the Chirinda Children’s Home. I was so touched by it and I was very emotional because of what I observed.
This Home has a lot of children. The Home was founded by a certain white lady. I did not really get the whole story of the founding of this home, but what I know is that this lady has since passed on. When we arrived at this place and what we observed, the officials were telling us they had no food for the day to give to the children. There were amongst the children some three infants and the care givers at this home, there were two women. This shows that they were few for the task which is at hand and they gave us some of their grievances such as the fact that there are so many years which have passed and they have not received any contribution from the Social Services.
They are supposed to be paying US$50 for the upkeep of a child, but to date, nothing has been paid and this is really a sorry sight. We even looked at the blankets which are used by these orphans. You could see poverty. Even their sleeping quarters, they were just squalid conditions and you could get the smell of urine showing that there was really a problem and no comfort in this Home.
This really touched me and I proposed that this august House should work together and formulate plans of getting assistance to these orphans and whenever funds or goods have been put together for the benefit of these homes, these should be directed to such homes because really, the Chirinda Orphanage had totally nothing. They informed us that they had three head of cattle and they also had a field, but the land which was distributed to them is very far away from them and they cannot carry out any farming activities because they have really young children in that home who cannot run such a field at such a distance.
Mr. President, when we look at these orphans, I beg that we create a law that these children have access to national documents such as birth certificates because it is the right of every citizen. I am pleading with the State that they be given these birth certificates for their future.
Amongst all these children who are being taken care of at these orphanages, there is this regulation which stipulates that if an orphan reaches the age of 18, they are then evicted from those homes, but where are they sent to? Then we also wonder. There are many predators who took advantage of her and impregnated and deserted her. As a result, the number of orphans are increasing. So, we are pleading with the authorities in our country to come up with a policy that these orphans should not be send away from homes at the age of 18. However, they should be allowed to live in these homes until they can look after themselves, either through marriage or working. This home really touched me more than what I saw from other orphanage homes.
Chirinda Children’s home seems to be operating from a world of its own
which is not friendly and is a problem to the children.
I am saying if the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services has promised to provide assistance, it should implement that and give assistance to these orphanages. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th August, 2016.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON. SEN. MUMVURI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Eight Minutes to
Five o’clock p.m.