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SENATE HANSARD 16 March 2016 25-36
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 16th March, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
CREATION OF EMAIL ADDRESSES FOR MEMBERS OF
PARLIAMENT
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I wish to remind
all Hon. Members that the ICT Department has created email addresses for all Hon. Members and members are urged to liaise with the ICT staff, stationed at the Members’ Dining Hall from 12 noon to 1630 hours
during sitting days, to have their passwords configured.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 17th March, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 133RD ASSEMBLY OF THE
INTERPARLIAMENTARY UNION (IPU)
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Zimbabwe Delegation Report on the 133rd Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary
Union (IPU).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the report that was presented to this august Senate by Hon. Sen. Chief Siansali, seconded by Hon. Sen.
Chief Chisunga.
If we do not read these reports, we will be lagging behind because they have a lot of information. What I want to talk about is on Article 4.1, on the women and migration. Madam President, this is a thorny issue if we can think deeper about it. You will find that women are the most affected people whenever we talk about migration.
There are factors that lead the women’s migration. You find that during the war, women, just because they are defenceless, they are forced to migrate from one place to another and seek refuge with their children just because they cannot defend themselves. They will be having nothing to eat and no shelter. Let us say in a home when there is violence, a woman beaten or there is a conflict with the husband, she will be forced to move from her original place to another place of which it does not put her correctly and nicely because she would have left her home and by that time, she might be taking her children, running away from their matrimonial home.
Sometimes these women migrate just because of economic reasons. I will give you a simple example which I have physically seen taking place as a person who leaves along the border; sometimes I travel along this road by public transport. One day I was shocked when I was travelling with so many women carrying babies on their backs. They got into that bus which I was traveling in. We travelled and when we were about 10km to Beitbridge, the whole lot of those women, there were about 15; they disembarked off the bus. I thought maybe they were lost.
I talked to them and advised them that we had not reached Beitbridge. They did not answer me because they knew they had an agenda. These women Madam President, when I enquired because I was touched by women moving out of the bus at night around 2 o’clock a.m. I went to the conductor and asked him what was taking place. Unfortunately, he did not know me and thought it was just a genuine question. He explained to me that these women had their husbands across the border in South Africa. I asked where they were going at that time and he told me that these women were going to cross the river at the illegal crossing point and when they get across the Limpopo river, they would get transport from South Africa which would take them to their final destinations.
Madam President, it was so painful. From that point in the morning I went to the immigration trying to highlight this issue to them because I could not understand; a woman carrying a baby on her back and having another child here and a few goods travelling at night and crossing the Limpopo River which is infested by crocodiles; how she was going to cross that river? It was really painful.
Madam President, migration ends up causing early child marriages. I will talk mostly about South Africa which I have seen things happening. As they cross these rivers, the girls will not be having money and not knowing exactly where they will be going. As they reach the crossing places, they find people there who are supposed to assist them cross the river. That is where these children are raped at the ages of 13 – 14 years.
Madam President, it does not end there. As they cross the river and get to the South African side where they are supposed to get employment. They will not be knowing anyone. They are supposed to get shelter and food, how do they get all this? Something has to happen; they get raped to get accommodation and employment. This is a sad issue of which when I talk about I feel deeply disturbed.
The same if we look at Article 5.0 in this report, where it says the migration of youth, it is the same story. They are exposed to ill health. As that child moves just across the river meeting two or three men who have not even been tested and who really cares about them being tested, that child is traumatized for the rest of her life. That is where she will get these chronic diseases like HIV and AIDS and so on which will never be healed in her life time.
These are the dangers and challenges that we are facing in migration. Madam President, I would urge the Government if ever we have any policy or something to do with these migrations to assist the women and the youths because their lives are in danger. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SENATOR MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Madam
President. I rise to thank you for the opportunity that you have afforded me to support the report that was tabled in this House. A report on the 133rd Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU), held in Geneva from the 17th to the 23rd October 2015, which delegation was led by you Hon. Madam President, and was brought by Hon. Sen. Chief Siansali seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Chisunga.
Madam President, I would want to thank the Zimbabwean delegation for raising many important issues at that forum. There are a lot of people who are suffering as a result of their need to migrate and they are facing challenges. They are moving to areas where there is peace. Some of them are dying when they cross the seas. I was quite happy when I read this report and observed that you led a group of heroes and heroines who are Zimbabwean children. His Excellency, the President whenever he visits a forum, gives an address and the citizens are also following suit. They are standing up to be counted at these various forums.
I was quite happy to hear that Members of Parliament when debating should debate constructive issues that have the truth and evidence. On Point 8.0, Hon. Sen. Chief Siansali and Hon. Sen. Chief Chisunga seconded, spoke about where they come from and the problems that are bedeviling them as a result of climate change. Others thought that we were having hunger because we are lazy. It is not because we are lazy but it is due to climate change, which has occasioned the change of the cropping season. Advice and notes were exchanged on how best people can survive climatic change. We are experiencing change in climate; our cropping season has changed from October, November and December. It should appear that we should be moving to start cropping in January up until March. Maybe that way we will be able to alleviate drought and hunger.
Madam President of the Senate, Hon. E. Madzongwe spoke of
other countries, that are busy recruiting dissidents or terrorists. You were quite touched by that and you mentioned it. I am happy to mention that you are a leader who knew what she was doing. She was a proper leader who led a delegation of Zimbabwean people. She knew what she was doing. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Madam President for
affording me this opportunity to also add my voice to the debate on the large delegation that went to attend the 133rd Assembly of the InterParliamentary Union. I thank Hon. Sen. Chief Siansali who moved this motion, which was seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Chisunga. As Zimbabweans, we would want to thank you for your presence at that meeting. We would want to urge the Government to provide funds to people that would be undertaking such official visits. The Report stated that you had so many committees to cover because there were few participants. This was due to inadequate funding. We hope that in future, funds will be made available.
We thank you for your bravery and courage Madam President. You gave an important Speech. You ably demonstrated your ability and understanding of the Constitution and you were supported by the Chiefs and members of the delegation. Even the youths such as Hon. Dziva also showed that she is a youth in the Parliament of Zimbabwe where we are the first Parliament to have this quota system, which has led to us having an improved number of women representatives. You put Zimbabwe on the map. We have a Constitution that is second to none.
We thank you for bringing stability to Africa and for representing us.
You went there, learnt and also enlightened them. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President for affording me this opportunity. I would also want to add my voice to the Report that was brought before this House by those who went to represent our country Zimbabwe. What I have noticed is that the Report that was brought before this House talks about youths. I think it has been noticed that the world over, youths are suffering, be they boys or girls. This is what is stated in the Report that children have been displaced all over; they have left their countries to go to different countries. There are so many reasons why children leave their own countries. They leave their countries because of wars that are going on in their countries, some leave because they are suffering. Some leave their countries to pursue their education and some are looking for a better life. There are several reasons why children and other people leave their countries.
I have noticed that in this world there are other people who are not known; the reason being that someone is born and then leaves the country maybe because the birth country is not his country of decent. These people move around without any birth certificates or travel documents. These people are not known at all. However, what usually happens is that when someone is born, a birth certificate is obtained for that person. This is how we get to know the number of people we have in the country. One day I attended a workshop that was entitled
‘Statelessness’ because there are people who are born and are never known because they do not have any documents. They are not registered anywhere, they are not known. These are people who move from country to country. They travel by boats, aeroplanes, trains and buses. People travel by various means Madam President. Some travel for good reasons and some for bad reasons but this report was talking about children who are suffering. We noticed that there are children who were taken out of this country, this was reported in the papers and these are children from Zimbabwe. There are about 200 children if I am not mistaken who were taken out of this country for wrong reasons. They were being abused, turned into slaves and not being paid their salaries. They were turned into maids and they were also not being given food. I read that when they got there, their phones and passports were confiscated. They were taken for medical examination first to see if they were suffering from any disease. Madam President, a lot of reports that have been brought to this House, we have talked about them. I do not know about others but the sentiments would appear as if it is not important to debate about reports of those who would have travelled out of the country because they would have travelled to visit or travelled in order to make money and also have fun. I now notice that these reports are very important. I notice that this report is loaded with a lot of things that are very important. If you go through this report, you will find that there are several things that are important.
Madam President, the reason why I have dwelt on this issue is that these days, the most talked about issued are human trafficking AIDS and many other diseases ravaging the country. This is why I said I cannot talk about everything because the previous speakers have already spoken about some of these things. I would like to say that some of these children that are born do not get what they are entitled to in their rights because they are supposed to have birth certificates, a place to stay and education. It is their right; our Constitution says all that is part of their human rights.
I noticed that because of this report, it is important that we should deliberate about this and these other countries that were also there and deliberated on these issues. It is important that we should come together and find a way to assist each other because this is not a problem, we are facing here in Zimbabwe only; it a problem the world over. With those few words, I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 17th March, 2016.
MOTION
REHABILITATION OF WAR SHRINES AND RECOGNITION
OF DEPARTED WAR LIBERATORS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion calling for rehabilitation and maintenance of War Shrines.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I want to thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion. This motion is a sobering motion. It reminds us among other things at all our levels ukhuti silesikwelede, tine chikwereti to those who liberated this country. The chikwerete emanates from our seeming tendency to forget our past. Madam President, I would like to remind ourselves that what this motion says is you have a past where you came from, you have the current life which we live and you have a future which you must measure against your past and your current performance. In other words, what I am saying is let us not forget where we came from, let us not forget the liberation struggle. Also, let us live an honest life about our departed. Thirdly, let our past be a strong lesson about our future behaviour and the sikwelede that we have towards our departed.
I would like Mr. President to categorise the sites that are referred to in the motion into three. The sites where our predecessors are buried, the group that includes, Mbuya Nehanda, Sekuru Kaguvi, Lobengula and Magwegwe, that is one category. In preparing to speak on this motion, I did ask a few young people here in Harare; are you aware of where Mbuya Nehanda is buried? I got no single answer of awareness of where Mbuya Nehanda is buried but every day we idolize the role that she played and we cannot take our children to where she is buried. The same would apply, if you went to Matabeleland and said are you aware what happened to Magwegwe, you probably get who is Magwegwe, where does the name Magwegwe come from. If our generation is blank about our past, our children will be totally blank about our past.
The second category that I want to look at is the category of the liberation fighters, their bodies are littered around all front line States. Quite often we talk about Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania, Botswana and forget Angola. We must never forget what happened to our freedom fighters in Angola. The third category is a painful one, it is of those of our liberators who died in post independence. We need to include them in our list of our heroes.
I would like to take this opportunity Hon. Members to salute all those people who have died in order to give this country the status it enjoys today. Mr. President I want to say that we need to recognise, identify and honour all these sites. A lot has been said about how long it is going to take. A lot has been said about how much money it would require to move that agenda forward. However, I would like to say we are all guilty. There was a time when this nation had money. There was a time we did not beg yet we forgot about where we came from. There are proposals that a site should be rehabilitated. Indeed, how can we look at those sites and say here lie our children and brothers. I believe that we should go a step further. We cannot museum everybody but there are people that we should take a step further and ensure that there is a museum dedicated to, those people like Mbuya Nehanda, Sekuru Kaguvi, Joshua Nkomo, Lobengula, the list is endless.
Lastly, Mr. President, I would like say that Joshua Nkomo’s place lies un attended. Indeed, that is a fact. However, Joshua Nkomo is talked about in the context of everybody in liberation fighter of this country. It is therefore imperative that when we look at rehabilitating all the sites, let us remember our brothers that were killed during “the moment of madness,” and make sure that their shrines, or the places where they lie are also attended to. I say that because in the words of one Senator, every Zimbabwean is a war fighter. There are very few people who lived past the war that did not fight that war and we need to respect all of them.
I would like to give you a practical example, when you drive into Bulawayo and you go over the last Flyover in Ntabazinduna, for those who are roughly my age and thereabouts, you will remember that that is the site where Dr. Parirenyatwa died. I am saying to this House, Parirenyatwa was the first African doctor, that alone makes him a distinguishable native of this land. Secondly, Dr. Parirenyatwa was a Government employee who chose at that time to defy the instructions of the regime and became a president of a nationalist movement. That alone requires recognition.
Thirdly, as you drive past that Flyover, there is a plague that is falling. I have been watching that plague and asking myself and others kuti are we not seeing this. Last week when I drove past, it had actually fallen down and yet it is where one of our first heroes died. It will cost less than US$5 000 to build a proper identifiable place which gives benefit and recognises the role that Samuel Parirenyatwa played. This is an example to illustrate the extent to which we have neglected our responsibility.
With those words, I once again want to thank Hon. Mohadi and the seconder for moving this motion which is a great challenge to us. It is both an indictment on us. Senators will accept that for a change, I am not talking about any side of this House. It is a great indictment to all of us, it is a challenge for the future. It says Zimbabweans define yourselves and understand where you are coming from. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. I would
like to thank the mover of the motion Senator Mohadi, seconded by Senator Masuku because she did think deeply about the issue of the welfare of the shrines for our fallen heroes. To those who experienced this, it was a painful experience, deeds not words. Even in the Bible, in the book of Kings, Elijah told the people that he was leading that there should be a wall to protect the cemetery of our relatives who had died.
The same is asked of us to do for our fallen heroes, there are those who are still buried in the rivers and bushes, who were not properly interred.
We should feel touched by these gallant sons and daughters of this country, who made the ultimate sacrifice to fight for the liberation of this country, which ultimately led to the State that we are today. Let us put our heads together because we need the input of the chiefs. The chiefs sent President Mugabe and the other gallant fighters to go and fight. They brought the country back, the chiefs should sit down and see what should be done because at the end of 1980, after the liberation struggle, others had been instructed to ensure that there should be rituals that will then be sent to Mabuwadziva but because there was no history or modus operandi, most of these chiefs, you find them just wearing garments and not carrying out their traditional roles. It was then said rituals has to be conducted in Mabuwadziva and Chirorodziva, but nothing was done.
We want our history to be recorded and let history show that we are looking after the places where even our heroes like the late Joshua
Nkomo, Chibwechitedza as he was affectionately known, be maintained so that the future generations will be able to learn about the history of Zimbabwe abi initio. I grew up in Southern Rhodesia, I only knew that there were governors such as Sir Humphrey Gibbs, and there were no blacks in this Parliament. Even the picture that is over there, it is a white’s only picture. So we would like to thank these gallant sons and daughters of Zimbabwe and that as a mark of respect, we should ensure that the sites where they lie are properly maintained.
History should be written and it should correctly reflect these shrines and these gallant sons and daughters so that their spirits will be happy. Those that fell by the bullet said they will be unable to go back to Zimbabwe, but the comrades should continue with the struggle and indeed, the struggle continues. This ultimately lead us to our freedom and we are now sitting pretty, but the parents of the sons and daughters whom we are unaware of their whereabouts - because we did not have any form of technology during the war, they did not have proper names. They also did not have proper names; they had names like Gire so it is difficult for us to then know where they died. We have a lot of graves in areas but those that are interred in those graves, their names are unknown.
Our chiefs tried to look into that area and conducted rituals, hoping that the spirits of those deceased will be able to manifest themselves to their relatives but midway through we stopped this exercise. All I am saying is that let us act in consent as this august House so that we pay them the respect that they deserve and look after these shrines properly. Even the war collaborators played their part, some died and some are still alive. Others are on the farms; they are doing the best they can. This is an important motion Mr. President of the Senate. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice on such an important motion. I thank you.
*SENATOR MATIIRIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity. I would like to thank Senator Mohadi the mover of such an important motion, seconded by Senator Masuku. It is true that the motion correctly depicts what happened and it does move us into nostalgia. These are people that scarified their lives for the benefit of the whole of Zimbabwe. These gallant sons and daughters of Zimbabwe fell all over the region and if it were possible, such places should be recognized and those places should be spruced up and be well kept.
The areas that are mentioned in the motion such as Tembwe and Nyadzonya, the manner in which these fallen heroes are interred is not good because these are just mass graves, about the size of this august Senate. Nothing would have been done then because those were times of the war and that was a difficult circumstance surrounding the war. If a man dies today and his wife, they cannot be interred in the same grave but this is how our mass graves are like.
All those that have spoken ab-initio, were asking if it were possible that samples of soil could be exhumed from these mass graves and be brought back to Zimbabwe and that they be reburied. We have problems with our tradition because each and every one of us has their totem and they have their own spirits. We would want these spirits of the departed to have eternal rest. They died when they had hopes and ambitions. If they were here with us today, they could have their own families and those that left families behind or those that have members of their family that died in Mozambique, would feel content if they were to hear that from time to time we are paying our respects to these sacred places where they have fallen.
There are places that we are aware of in our own localities where freedoms fighters lost their lives. In Uzumba we have one such place, it is a certain mountain and there was a battle that raged from 1700hrs until 0600hrs. A woman who was breastfeeding her son died and the child spent the whole night suckling from the mother. Those that know of a road that leads to Uzumba High School, there is a stone that was placed in commemoration of those heroes that fell at that battle. There is also a plaque to represent the son who suckled the mother’s breast when the mother had died during that battle. He could be having a family by now but he had problems. The parents would have peace of mind because of this plaque to commemorate these things. The same could be done for all these places where these people died.
Times are hard but once the economy improves, such areas should be looked into. Where possible, these areas should be spruced up and be looked after. I thank you.
SENATOR MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
SENATOR MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 16th March, 2016.
MOTION
CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE TO HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT AS CHAIRMAN OF AFRICAN UNION
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion to congratulate His Excellency, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe and the Government of Zimbabwe on successfully leading the African Union (AU) and
Southern African Development Community (SADC) as Chairperson. +SENATOR A. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President, I would also like to add a few words to congratulate our President, the President of Zimbabwe for his tenure of carrying out his duties for Africa and also for carrying out his duties in the Southern Africa Development Community SADC. Mr. President, I just want to add a few words. I have noticed that the AU started long back and that SADC only started after the countries in the Southern part of Africa got independence.
The President had two posts and he being an elderly person – I just wonder the challenge, whether or not he was going to manage because I have never come across such a situation that a person can have two very high positions at the same time. I wonder what really had happened for it to happen that way. Be that as it may, I know a lot of Senators have already spoken before me, but he managed to carry out the two posts as an elderly person. This was an opportunity for him to stop wars in
Africa and also to rectify all the anomalies that were going on in Africa.
We have seen that some of the countries are breaking their own constitutions but after the leadership of our President at the Africa Union (AU), I just wonder if anything went wrong during his tenure.
We have seen that in the United States of America, there are campaigns going on and we heard that one of the candidates said that Africans have no democracy and they are going to recolonise Africa because the African leaders are failing to control and manage their countries. I was really hurt by that statement, why did he have to say that yet we have our President Hon. Mugabe who is highly educated?
Why did he not speak about those leaders that are failing to govern their own people? He should have spoken about it for the whole of
Africa to see but seeing that he is an elderly person and has been ruling Zimbabwe amicably, this country should be used as an example because all these other countries entrusted him with the chairmanship of the two organisations. We also want the President to continue doing the same in this very country and people should stop fighting. If people continue fighting in a country, then it simply means they are belittling their President. We do not want that to happen in our country because we are being led by an elderly person and as an elderly person, he should rebuke such actions.
We know that people are not here forever, the President must leave a legacy and future generations should continue talking good about him. Even in Matabeleland, people are still talking about what the late Vice President Nkomo used to say. People should continue making reference to what was said. We do not want children to be harassed, assaulted or hit people who attend their meetings, we want the President to continue in the same way that he chaired the two organisations.
We want Africa to develop, we heard that the President donated 300 herds of cattle to the AU. We know the cattle are going to multiply and in so doing, alleviate poverty in Africa. I think these wars are hunger driven but we want peace. There should be peace and prosperity because President Mugabe started this thing. We do not want selfish people to be selfish or to be poor yet we come from a very rich country.
We read in the newspapers that there are selfish people and that US$15billion disappeared. We want the President to come and talk about that, that such amounts should just disappear. The President should say something, with these few words, I would want all that has been said here to be taken to Cabinet so that the President knows that we are happy about his leadership in the two organisations. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa seconded by Hon. Sen.
Mavhunga.
This is an important motion that we congratulate our President because he held the double chairmanship for the AU and SADC for a whole year. We say, well done for a brilliant job. He showed his mature statesmanship, wisdom and experience in steering the two ships. During his period of tenure, the whole of Africa learnt from him, as an august Senate, we should also learn from his vast experience.
The people of Muzarabani where I come from, although they receive these newspapers days later, said that the President makes them proud because of his good deeds. The entire African continent acknowledged and thanked him for his superb leadership skills. We need to treasure this in our hearts. Those of us that are in this august Senate should treasure his words and guard them jealously. He showed us that he is a hero and a chief of chiefs.
Yes, turns are taken for one to run the chairmanship yet others surrender midway. We want to thank the President for remaining resolute in running through the course of his tenure as chairperson of the two institutions. We wish him more in his endeavours and bravery despite his advanced age of 92 years old where delicious cakes were eaten in celebration. We wish him more years like Methuselah, the biblical figure that lived for hundreds of years, may the Lord richly bless him. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President, I want to join all the other Senators who have spoken before me in congratulating the President for his performance at the AU and concomitantly at the
SADC. I am very thankful for all the work that was done by the President and when he does these things outside the country, he does not do them in his own name. He does them on behalf of the people of Zimbabwe. It is the people of Zimbabwe that take the credit while he performs on their behalf.
Mr. President Sir, I am not here to add on to the things that have been said about the President because I think enough has already been said but I am talking here now as a Member of the Roman Catholic Church of which His Excellency the President Robert Gabriel Mugabe is a devout member of. Robert Gabriel Mugabe is a devout Catholic, just in case some of you did not know. Our vision of our Lord Jesus Christ probably differs with that of most other churches. I want to tell you now that in our faith of the Holy Catholic Faith, Robert Gabriel Mugabe will never dream one day of being or likened to someone nearly similar or half similar to our Lord Jesus Christ. He will never. – [HON.
SENATORS: hear, hear.] –
This time, in the Holy Catholic Church is the time of lent, where we are thinking of time of the suffering and dying of our Lord Jesus at Calvary. This is the time when we remember the suffering in Gethsemane and the suffering during the carrying of the cross, the fourteen stations of the cross. In our faith, we have the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit being one. Our Lord Jesus Christ is not just himself, he is also God. I believe that and so does Robert Gabriel Mugabe believe that Jesus Christ is God. We will not accept, as Roman Catholics and the President himself will not accept to be likened to our Lord Jesus Christ. – [HON. SENATOR: Hear, hear.] – no matter what good we do, no matter how good or how excellent our performance is, we believe that we are only to do it because the Lord Jesus allows us to do it. We are only but instruments of His work, in whatever we do in our sleep, waking up moments, weakness, intellect and strength. Therefore, I would like Hon. Members in this House, both Catholic and any other faith to understand that Robert Gabriel Mugabe is a Roman Catholic
Member, not only is he a member, he is also a devout Catholic and there is no room for him to be equal to his Lord and creator our Lord Jesus Christ.
While we warmly congratulate him for all the things …
*HON. SENATOR MAWIRE: I do not think that this motion that was moved by Senator Chief Musarurwa and seconded by Hon.
Senator Mohadi, they spoke the language that is being talked about that Robert Mugabe does not have the power to be equated to God and that he should not mislead himself and the like.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
order!
*HON. SENATOR MAWIRE: Let me say what I have heard.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
order!
*HON. SENATOR MAWIRE: The motion was to congratulate His Excellency Cde. Robert Mugabe as the Chairman of the African
Union full stop.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: You
agree he is also your President. She has also moved a point of order you need to listen to her. The order is sustained. The motion has the spirit and latter recommendations. You debate what the Hon Senator Musarurwa was seeking. He was praising and he said we should congratulate. Hon Senator Makone, stick to the motion and not with other statements that are given by someone who just stood up. You are not answering the debate of other members. You are making your own views on the motion.
Senator Makone, order! Senator Makone,order! Senator Makone, order! So that you actually stick to what the motion says. You are free to differ and express your own views but not to take a different motion or probably raise a motion. I want to be at liberty and use the word as an obiter dictum in the debate; whereby, someone raises something else other than what is intended in the spirit and letter of the motion. You proceed but be mindful of the fact that read again what Senator
Musarurwa moves and stick to that.
HON. SENATOR MAKONE: Thank you very much Mr.
President for your correction. I will stick to the point. I want to go back to what the Hon. Senator Chief Musarurwa raised. He wanted to warmly appreciate the leadership qualities of our President, His Excellency, Cde. Mugabe during his tenure in office; an achievement that has made the nation proud. Mr. President Sir, I want to congratulate the Chief on his observation and I agree with him completely but I also want to say while we congratulate him, we would like not to go beyond what was said here by Senator Chief Musarurwa.
At no point did the Senator Chief Musarurwa liken the President to God. I thank the President for what he did but in my opinion and I am expressing my personal opinion, our President is nothing but a human creature created by God who is enabled by God to do what he does. We thank God for operating through our President but he does not become equal to God. I want to say that I have an opinion which may differ …
HON. SENATOR CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. I am
not sure whether the Hon. Member understood what you said. It is like she is continuing on her path in trying to convince everyone here, which we do not need, that the President is not immortal, is not God and is not Jesus. Someone might have made reference to that and that point has been made right from the beginning when she said…
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
Senator Marava, order.
*HON. SENATOR CHIPANGA: She has already made that
point when she said Robert Gabriel Mugabe is a devout Catholic and that in their faith, which is not mine, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one and the same. Therefore, if you liken Jesus to any individual, you are also saying that individual is God. We have got all that point already and I do not see any reason why that point should be hammered on and on.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order!
Senator Mlotshwa among others is saying what is your point of order.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: The point of order Mr. President is that she should not continue on the debate that President Robert Mugabe is not like Jesus – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think it is
now clear. Senator Makone proceed subject to those good comments.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President can I have your
protection.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Sen.
Machingaifa and other Hon. Senators there, I will ask you very soon to go and chat in the corridors or at the restaurant. This is a debate about the Head of State. Let us be careful with the way we behave. Can you proceed?
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President. I am a
daughter of the soil of Zimbabwe and whether I agree or disagree with my Head of State politically, when he acts outside the State of
Zimbabwe, he is also acting on my behalf. Therefore, as a daughter of Zimbabwe, I have the right to express my opinion just like any other
Zimbabwean – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
If a son or daughter of Zimbabwe has got the freedom to liken the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe to our Lord Jesus Christ and is allowed to do that debate in this House until they complete, Mr. President Sir, I pray that I also be given that opportunity to also give a counter admission. This debate was held yesterday. We sat and listened to the Hon. Senator telling us how very much like Jesus Christ our President is in this House. There was no point of order raised by us from this side. We looked at this motion which is before us and there is nothing likening the President to our Lord Jesus but we sat patiently and listened. Now it is also my turn to say my opinion to the contrary and I wish to be given that opportunity …
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order.
I was not here but I know Senator Machingaifa among others maybe mentioned something like that. You are making a point that when they did so, there was no objection from anyone and you listened to the end.
However, you know very well that if you let somebody debate outside the motion and you do not raise a point of order. Surely, you should have interjected yesterday. When you let them finish and know they are out of order and the following day you say you want to counter, it becomes tricky. What you need to do is to debate the motion and proceed. Do not say you are now countering, just debate the motion and proceed.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President. Sen. Marava actually tried to object and he was told the objection was not sustained and that Hon. Machingaifa could carry on. So, it is in that spirit that I am actually praying that you also allow me to continue because an objection was raised and it was shot down.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
for the way you are proceeding. I can assure you the rules remain the same. You debate the motion as you like, just go ahead. You are a daughter of the soil as you said, which is very correct. You proceed on the basis of the motion and not on the basis of Hon. Machingaifa. He can easily bring in sanctions issue right now but let us proceed on the motion.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President. I will not bring in sanctions here, neither will I agree with the Hon. Senator that President Robert Gabriel Mugabe is equal to Jesus Christ – [SENATOR
MANYERUKE: “uri kudzokorodza futi”.] - It is a sentence please.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Senator
Manyeruke, I am giving you the last warning.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Hon. President. I just want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa for his observations which I think most Zimbabweans will agree with. When we talk about issues of such national issues, I think it is important that we be seen to be talking with one voice. We cannot have a President who goes to SADC and the AU representing us and then we come to this House and we hammer him. Much as some of us will not agree with some of the things that he says or does, at least for the things that go on record, we have to be seen to be agreeing with him. However, that does not give Hon. Members an opportunity to indulge in unsavoury attacks on our faith and beliefs.
I honestly believe that if we were to act as Zimbabweans who believe in what they do as a country, our differences must not be for public consumption because they should not be. In so doing, we lessen ourselves but you then introduce that debate which causes separation and debate on things that we should be agreeing on. That is a real shame on us as Senators of the Republic of Zimbabwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - This is a motion that should make it difficult for even members of the opposition to come up and say anything in opposition because it does not augur well for the country.
While we agree and remember that we are Zimbabweans and we must be seen to be talking with one voice, no one must take advantage of that silence as subservience because it is not. When we are talking on national things and agendas, let us respect each other. Let us leave room for unity where unity is required. Mr. President Sir, I really regret on some of the debate that took place yesterday because it has got potential to divide people, yet it should be uniting. I want to thank Sen. Chief Musarurwa for raising this motion because it is in the national interests.
I thank you Mr. President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We
should clap hands for her, she spoke very well, in a spirit of unity in respecting the President. I think the last part was very good. Unity is very good, we need that and the issue of divisions is not proper.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to speak on this motion, moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa that we thank His Excellency the President for a job well done. We want to thank him for a job well done when he was both the Chairperson of the AU and SADC. We thank President Mugabe for coming to our province, Masvingo. After his visit, thereafter we had rains and things went well. We thank him for discharging his duties. He was always moving, representing us, the Zimbabwean people. We are proud of his work. African countries felt that he had not done enough and he was appointed a Rapporteur. When his tenure of office ended…. *THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
Order, order, I have decided that others should also learn, maybe it was out of ignorance. Hon. Sen. Manyeruke, there are rules that need to be observed in this House. Once the Chair rises and orders you to sit down, you sit down but you walked out. It appears as if you are protesting against the ruling by the Chair, I should have stopped you right there, you sit down when you are being ordered. We should respect the ruling of the Chair. Next time do not do that, you should not leave the Chamber when you have been called to order.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKA: My apologies Mr. President, it
was due to ignorance.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: May I
ask the speaker on the floor to proceed.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you, I was saying that he
was then given another responsibility so the he would continue advising them, continue tapping from his wisdom. We are grateful for that. When he relinquished his Chairmanship, I was touched about his statement that there are five permanent positions on the Security Council and that there is need for Africans to be represented on that so that our interests can also be protected. It opened up my mind and my thinking, when he raised such issue, he received a standing ovation. No previous Chairperson had made reference to this need for permanent seats on the United Nations Security Council for Africa. It was because of wisdom that he raised such an issue. As members of this august House, we salute him and thank him for a job well done. A lot has already been said by the previous speakers, I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 17th March, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE 38TH
PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY
FORUM
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Zimbabwe
Delegation Report on the 38th Plenary Assembly of the SADCParliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add my voice to this motion, moved by Hon. Sen. Mohadi. There was a lot which was said but I will pick few things. I observed that at that Plenary they debated on 7.3 point, on the issue of HIV/AIDS pandemic. Mr. President, there should be few people suffering from this pandemic at a certain time because we have had this pandemic for quite some time now. There should be few people suffering from this disease. I am happy about this issue because I sit in the Committee that has relevance to this matter. There was a lot of suffering which was brought by this pandemic. It is said that by 2030 people who are taking ARVs or suffering from this pandemic should be reduced. If you look at the statistics, there are some parts of the world where there are a much higher number of people suffering from this pandemic. All those who educate and those who give tablets wish that those people should go to
New Start Centres because many people have not attempted to do that.
A lot of people with HIV/AIDS do not like to go on public and get treatment; they also cannot survive on one spouse. If we want to eradicate this pandemic, we should follow what we are being counseled, we should learn on how to survive so that we do not continue with this disease. We know as a country, initially when this pandemic was just beginning, people would buy tablets, a lot of people died at the initial stage even up until now, they are dying even though things have improved. The numbers of those who were passing on has reduced. Government is actually helping, working in partnership with other organisations to teach people on how to conduct themselves.
A lot of people are accessing drugs, some were buying drugs and some having access to drugs from our major hospitals. When we debate about this issue, we should talk about it broadly as leaders, it should not just be a talk show to debate only, we should go further to schools and churches - teaching people so that by 2030, if we will be still alive, we will say that during our time, we worked hard.
Another matter that was raised was that of gender equality.
Sometimes it is not seen in the right perspective by others but in our Constitution, it is clearly inscribed. People said they wanted the Senate and their National Assembly and people were very clear on what they required of the two Houses. In the National Assembly there was a law that was put that there should be gender equality but others who are outside here, do not understand.
Women should also take leadership positions; we do not want a situation where we will say these are position for men in leadership only. From down below to the highest levels, there should be that gender equality. We are grateful for that because our people here in Zimbabwe understand that even if they go for an election, that which exactly they want to come up with should be theirs as a result of their voting.
At SADC, such matters are being debated; there are some countries which have not been able to do as we have done. Let us congratulate ourselves; we now have 60 women representation in the National Assembly and in this House as well. We would like to appreciate that. If other countries see such numbers of women in leadership they are shocked, when I was in Kenya, the people there said, for women to take a leadership position is very difficult there. They think that a woman should be just a housewife.
Mr. President Sir, that means what we have done as a country in Zimbabwe, we should be proud of it. Even though we have not achieved the rightful levels at the highest levels but we should look at where we are coming from. You find that we are still backward on that matter of women leadership, but we now have quite a number of them. In Kenya they said when women go for a campaign to be voted into office, the people would look at your character as well and how you dress. But here in Zimbabwe we are better off, in Kenya it is so difficult for a woman to campaign without head shawl. Even if you have money, are educated and campaign thoroughly but if there is a woman who is not educated and puts on the rightful attire, having covered her head and her character as well, that one would be voted into office by other women. Some other women actually told us about that at the conference, the facilitator who is a lecturer at a university requested another woman who is also a lecturer in a different discipline to help her to campaign. She failed to win and said, ‘I am pulling out’. It is said that when you are a woman, how do you handle yourself before these people, you should not dress different from your people but should be in line with their language and dressing.
Gender equality is important for women to be in leadership positions. Our Constitution has actually supported that, it has given responsibility for women to do that. In the National Assembly for 10 years, and after ten years what will transpire? We hope that there will be a win because you cannot be able to stand there. A woman will compete with a man and that is not bad, we should be courageous enough when we want a position to campaign for it.
I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for talking about these matters and our development as a country, matters of gender equity between men and women. Even though we have not surpassed what we are expected to be. What we have tried to, we should continue so that after 10 years which is in the Constitution, we should be able to have a lot of women retained in Parliament. You will see that when women are involved things move smoothly. Suppose if you had appointed a woman to the position of Minister of Finance from the onset, do you not think that by now we would have moved far much better? As it is, we do not have money to campaign.
When there is a funeral in constituencies, a woman is approachable and also when there are finance issues. Some of us here, our male counterparts, it is not easy for them to be approached on such a problem. So, it is important that after 10 years or within those 10 years, we should retain some of the women. The women will continue to help themselves and be able to stand on their own and contest seats in the National
Assembly. Women do not have money to contest, we appeal that we be helped here in Parliament. Give us our financial rights because if we have money, we will be able to contest with our male counterparts.
The development of women is important and actually it is women who vote, they should understand our concerns. We debated in the last Parliament that we should tell parties that if it is a woman contesting they must contest on their own so that there is no disparity. We are still appealing that this should be accepted that we contest on our own. For the Senate, it is not affected but that is the case when we want to be in the National Assembly. When women contest on their own it will be better. I would like to thank you and I am supporting this motion. I thank you.
SENATOR MAKORE: Thank you very much Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to debate on this very important motion. Firstly, I want to thank Senator Mohadi as mover of this particular motion. This motion of SADC, to me is very important. In the other paper that I read, SADC had two Cs before. We used to call it Southern Africa Development Coordinating Conference; meaning to say before that, there was a vacuum but this was formed as earlier as April 1980 with the purpose of liberating the countries that were under colonial rule in the Southern Africa region. Now therefore, it cancelled one C and having attained political objectives that all the SADC countries are now free from colonisation; it is then focusing on economic development of the SADC region.
In others words issues that are articulated here in this report are issues that are aiming at developing the economies of SADC. In this particular report, they are talking of the MDGs that could have expired in 2015. Now they are talking of the SDGs that are extended to 2030. This institution through its Parliament; despite the fact that they do not have implementing authority, they debate those issues to sort of encourage people on issues that benefit the majority of the people within the SADC countries.
I want to thank you very much over that pointer but save to say that in this indicator some very few countries managed to achieve the intended Millennium Development Goals Mr. President of the Senate. I also welcome this development for which SADC must identify self with flags. It is important that we fly flags of SADC, resembling the process of development ever since - from the Coordinating Conference in this
SADC Development Council, to me it is a very welcome development.
The other very important issue that was articulated here is of forming a regional Parliament. I understand really in this report that the Council of Ministers rejected that, but as Parliaments, we see it fit that we must form a Parliament of that nature. It is important that we integrate issues of importance to such particular discussion. For example, we have issues of sexual reproductive health, we spoke about it. We have issues of AIDS, issues of protocol that have passed for example the Gender Protocol. Some countries who even signed that
Protocol have not even implemented it, save to say we did very well as Zimbabwe and also Namibia in the way that is articulated in this particular report.
Such Parliament must be ensured with vested powers that could also check reasons why other countries who cannot domesticate this very particular protocol which we see fit. Generally, I want to say the SADC itself has to take this institution very serious in the sense that we want to see issues that are of democracy, it has been spelt here that they also inspect the election that take place in terms of election observations. Such issues Mr. President must be taken seriously because SADC is a board that has made several achievements. We see that as a milestone that at least if we give them a little of authority and recommend as Parliaments such recommendations are also taken back with our participation in such discussion. I think it is very important.
The onus is now with us because we have heard I think they are now coming to Parliament themselves to involve Parliaments in the process of other activities that have to be brought to the attention of the bigger board. With these very few words, I want to thank Senator Mohadi and encourage this board to be much more serious because we support it wholly and would wish that its work be listened to by the executive authorities of various countries of SADC. This Parliament also be supported be it is important that we gravitate all our discussion and be supported through Parliaments to make it strong. I thank you very much.
SENATOR MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
SENATOR MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 17th March, 2016
MOTION
TRADITIONAL CHIEFS MANDATE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the role of traditional leaders.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President, I stand to support the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Mawire. I want to make reference to the motion because it has a bearing on what I want to say, she, “calls upon this Government to revisit policies that give Traditional Leaders their mandate so that they can effectively deal with issues of moral decadence, environmental pollution and degradation, children’s rights among communal communities as well as other incidental issues that they may fall under the purview of the Traditional Chiefs’ mandate”.
This is a mouthful and I want to believe that the debate that we held in this august Senate shows the direction we want to go. I think we have done a lot in the debate and what may be required now is to look at the translation of the Constitution. The Constitution has a very clear section on traditional leaders and I will ask, with your indulgence, the section that I think will help us in our debate. Section 282, Functions of traditional leaders, I will only refer to a few sections.
Clause (d) states that, “in accordance with an Act of Parliament, to administer Communal Land and to protect the environment.” It is very clear in the Constitution but at times we get confused when there is competition between the District Administrator’s office, the local authorities and traditional leaders but I think the Constitution is very clear. I think our debate should really focus on what is given in the Constitution so that there is no conflict between what the traditional leaders have to do and what the local authorities should do.
Section (2) of that 282 and states, “Except as provided in an Act of
Parliament, traditional leaders authority, jurisdiction and control over the Communal Land or other areas for which they have been appointed, and over persons within those Communal Lands or areas.” This is very clear in the Constitution and I think, anybody in his or her right senses, if we follow this, then there is no confusion in terms of the role of traditional leaders.
Section (3) states that, “In the performance of their functions, traditional leaders are not subject to the direction or control of any person or authority, except as may be prescribed in an Act of
Parliament.” Again, this is very clear.
Mr. President, I really thought that we need to remind ourselves that what we are debating here is within the Constitution. What is required is for us is to implement what is in the Constitution. – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear] – In doing that, we avoid the confusion where we are fighting with the traditional leaders. They should not be pleading for their rights because it is in the Constitution and it is high time that the Executive allows traditional leaders to do their work as given in the Constitution. When we do that, we will move as a united country. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I
would want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen.
Mawire.
I believe that all of us originate from an area under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders and that we are all cognisant of that fact. When we are discussing traditional issues , they are centered around chiefs. All our traditions that are associated with us as traditionalists are espoused under the jurisdiction of the chief. A chief does a lot of work, yet there is no recognition, there is not even enough security to safeguard him. The powers of the chiefs should be restored to them, they should be given their due respect in accordance with the Constitution. No one should interfere with the chiefs as is enshrined in the Constitution.
When the police go to the chiefs homesteads, they gather their intelligence on the state of affairs from the chiefs. The village heads are led by the chiefs who give direction. Chiefs should be given their due recognition and exercise their rights as enshrined in the Constitution.
+HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity. I will briefly contribute using SiNdebele because I am being guided by my ancestors. Others have spoken about traditional leaders, I also have a few things to add.
Let us look at our historical background. First and foremost, I know why we are confused about traditional leaders. Before independence, the colonial regime used to abuse traditional leaders for their own benefit because they were not related. We were people that were despised and looked down upon. It was normal for them to be abused under such circumstances.
Secondly, traditionally, they did not understand our culture. When you do not understand a certain tradition, how can you function within that environment? Thirdly, they tried to take our chiefs and traditional leaders to use them politically. I take you back to what happened to Lobengula. He disappeared and to date, we do not know where he died because of how traditional leaders relate to each other. Are there any people who know where Lobengula died? Whenever a traditional leader dies, his people would not show foreigners or enemies where he would have been laid to rest. That is how people were relating to their traditional leaders.
Now we come, sometimes we want to emulate bad behaviour that is not within our culture. We know what the traditional leader represents in our culture. We speak the same language and stay in the same community. He has been our leader since yesterday and will be tomorrow. I do not know where the confusion is coming from. His leadership is within our ancestry.
In 2008 when we had problems in Gwanda and people did not know what to do, we sat down and said let us talk to the chief. Let us leave politics behind and approach the chief, our traditional leader. Before the lapse of the week when the chief had said something, all the problems were finished. I am trying to say that gives us confidence on the role of traditional leaders. If we interfere with their roles, then we are in problems because we are asking for problems. I want you to understand this, I have not been sent by the traditional leaders but I leave within them and I understand how they leave.
If you approach the chief and he will tell you about the problems they face; one day I saw people standing by the side of the road. I had some young boys in the car, I told them to seat behind. When I told the people to disembark, I said I did not greet these people, I did so only to realise that it is the chief, a traditional leader. I asked where his homestead was and he told me that it was 10km away and I had just made him disembark there. The point I am driving at is that here is a traditional leader moving around by night and he has nothing to use for transportation. That makes our leaders not to be respected. Let us take measures to ensure that traditional leaders have that respect within their place of jurisdiction.
My last point is that, I would like to reprimand the politicians, please stop abusing traditional leaders. I got a message yesterday that someone was saying those who do not understand certain political parties should be removed from leadership. I understand that when we are going for our elections, we say traditional leaders should go with their people to the voting booth. When politics changes, the chief will remain with his people, how will he then relate with the people under such circumstances when we use them politically. Please let us not abuse our traditional leaders. We may debate here that we are not abusing them; if we want to correct things the first thing to do is to face the truth. In fact, if you want to be a Christian and to repent, the first thing to do is to confess. I was wrong open my way for me. With those words, I thank you.
*HON. SENATOR JADAGU: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me the opportunity to add my voice to a motion that was raised by Hon Senator Mawire Seconded by Senator Mavhunga. My debate would be underpinned by my position as a daughter of a chief. I understand the mystery that shrouds chieftainship. Chiefs should have their unfettered powers restored. Chiefs treat us as a single people although we each have our totem and our ethnic tribe.
In the Magwende chieftainship, there was one chief that fought against the native commissioner. I recall running away with chief
Mangwende’s firearm and hiding it in a cave. I was then a standard six student at Murewa Mission.
The chief does not have a wardrobe where they put their regalia.
The chief’s regalia are shrouded in mystery. We do not want that myth that surrounds the chieftainship to be revealed. There are certain secrets that are around the chieftainship. We should not take away the chief’s powers through the Constitution. According to our culture, physical contact between the chief, his wife and their subjects is a taboo. We have disregarded our traditions. The chiefs speak to a higher authority who is the creator. I remember that after the chief had spoken, the rains
fell.
Hon. President, as you preside on all the things that are upon your person, you should not come to contact with anyone because it will cause bad things to us. A chief is a chief regardless of the age and tribe.
What is the role of the chief?
As a grown up woman with four children, what I know is that at the advent of the liberation war, no one tore their church uniforms. The chiefs and the ancestor’s spirits led the liberation war.
I am not talking about the chief’s council and not in your capacity as the president of the chiefs’ council but as a presiding officer. You need to have your powers restored to you regardless of the political party that you support or the tribe that you come from. We shout, you should have unfettered powers given back to you. I do not condemn any churches. Churches during the war were not functional. The Lord was prosecuting the war. The blame is not on an individual. All of us erred, therefore we should go back to the traditional way of worship. We should kneel down before our traditional leaders and our spirits.
Everything will go back to its originality. Chiefs gave us the President, Cde. Robert Mugabe. Our chiefs we are pleading with you. You are the ones who enabled us to emerge victorious during the war of the liberation struggle.
We cannot go back to loin skins and other clothes of that era but we should have rituals. We pride ourselves by giving the titles Upper
House and Lower House, which are the Senate and National Assembly. We should play our role as senators and understand the role that the chiefs play in the spiritual world. If we do that we will live in peace. Incest is now abound as a result of the lack of respect for the chief, which was unheard of. It was anathema during the reign of the chiefs. The penalty was also imposed. We now have a lot of children who are disabled.
A week ago, Mr. Jadagu fell ill. I shall not disclose the name of the road that they were using. They had gone there to relieve themselves and saw girls that were nude. Men that were dressed in suits were busy applauding them. He shuddered to think whether Parliament was aware of that. I told him that we have heard about it in Hon. Makore’s Portfolio Committee. We have now turned ourselves upside down. The country will be cursed because a lot of values will have been lost. Bad tendencies where people fathered children with their own daughters were gotten rid of at the Chiefs’ Court. Let us all unite and restore the powers to the chiefs so that the chiefs can then talk to the creator.
We are not going to talk about the Village Heads and Headmen; we are talking about the Chiefs. Theirs is not a political appointment. I have never seen an election where Chief Charumbira was elected chief. This is traditional. They should be given their respect. Let us rewind the clock and go back to the period where we would respect the chiefs; just as would be the case where people are ploughing using cattle and a plough. We run a serious risk in this era. We should go back to our traditional ways. We want marriages and we want people to get married. I have a lot of sons in law and they come from Matabeleland.
My grandmother is from the Sibanda clan. We have become too tribalistic. I may not be able to express myself in Ndebele but I should understand all these national languages.
I urge you as chiefs that we should learn to brew the traditional beer and not these instant brews commonly referred to as “kachasu”. Mothers and sons should not be hugging one another; this has led to incest. Homosexuality is now abound because we have gone against the grain and no longer respect our tradition. Thank you so much Hon.
Mawire. You had the vision in revelation with the spirits of Zimbabwe. I reiterate that powers be conferred to the chiefs so that they can take us back to our ancestors.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: On a point of order, the Hon. Member is not speaking to the motion. She is giving us her personal history.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It has been
said that you are not confining yourself to the motion. You are giving us your life history. Well, I do not know about that but you may proceed. *HON. SEN. JADAGU: Thank you. I would say this is a good motion. The powers of the chiefs should be given back to them. We should also correct our commissions and omissions so that we go back to our roots as Africans. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make a contribution to this important motion proposed by Hon. Sen. Mawire and seconded by Hon. Sen. Manyeruke. I thank them all for bringing this motion. My submission to the motion Mr. President, is that let us take it to a much higher level than the level that in my consideration we are debating. By the way Mr. President, each time I say words, they are spelt wrongly. There are so many mistakes being made, so I will try and actually tailor-made my language.
It is administrative but I am just expressing a concern.
Mr. President, the issue of authority of the chiefs or traditional leaders; I will not in any way propose to argue against what is in the Constitution but I will be very brief. It is an important issue. We just came out of the war. A lot of things were done for expediency. The issues of land for example, let us look at what other countries have done in dealing with land. The land belongs to the chief. He knows the traditions and he knows what is sacred in that area but when we came from the war, people were settled from Buhera and were given Chikapakapa, a place that is sacred. They were settled from all over; that was expediency. Let us sit down, let us look at it and examine it. “Mambo” is the one who knows his children. Land should belong to the chief. There should be a Land Commission under the chief, he should administer. In fact, let us talk about two tiers of governance. In Ghana, in West Africa, Accra City is in the land of the chief. For the authorities, if a Government want to build a city, they have to go to the chiefs and say, we want to put up a city here, metropolis which will have its own Government but they get permission from the chiefs. The rules used in the metropolis or megapolis will be totally different from what the chief is doing in the rural areas. So, I propose that there be a clear, extensive and total plan by the chiefs. There are many chiefs in this Chamber, who are well educated who can set up a Commission to work with our universities and design a well structured two-tier system of governance which probably the traditional rulers cannot handle with the exception of. Defence, Foreign Affairs, Finance and Education probably those should be left out to a national Government. So, let us find a way of having two-tiers of Government which will not contradict each other but rather complement, enforce and reinforce both traditions and modernity. I think this is the way forward, I propose that. New Zealand again did the same thing, the Maoris where the original owners of the land. Colonialism came in, destroyed it but they went back to the basics and agreed how land should be handled. It sorted out a lot of problems.
It also brings in responsibility in terms of poverty alleviation.
Mr. President, if you go to the house of our traditional rulers in Zimbabwe, you will find chickens packing all over, it is not a proper place, it does not look like there is a chief. It is because revenue system is not properly structured. If it is properly structured, if the chief controls land, when City of Mutare says we want land to expand, they will go to a chief and all that revenue goes to the chief. They should really be empowered through revenue collection, through a lot of other means through which we can get money. Then it will improve the quality of their life, they will be respected. They will have all the dignity that they require. With those few words Mr. President, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to support the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Mawire, seconded by Senator Manyeruke, we all come from the Chief’s land regardless of our tribes. This has been our tradition from time immemorial. A single chief reigns and none is sworn during the tenure of another. There are certain things that need to be looked at. We no longer refer to them as Mambos or Kings but we now call them chiefs. These are Mambos, they have certain roles. When you go to the police to make a report you are redirected by the police to go to the chief first because they recognise the jurisdiction.
There was an issue that was raised by Chief Charumbira that people from the Metrological Department asked them to come so that they could sit down to come up with a Metrological Department because they were saying the whole country will receive rains in their weather forecast. There are certain aspects that the weather report and forecast personnel overlooked. It needed the chiefs’ assistance. As a result of this consultation rains started falling. There are certain spiritual things that go with chieftainship, which is God-given and also given by ancestral spirits. We may use English words for these phenomena but whether we are speaking in Shangani, Venda or any other languages, chiefs should be respected. They should be given their due respect. Government Ministers who work in conjunction with the chiefs should have been here to hear us and they could have borrowed a leaf from this.
Mr. President, we debated a lot of motions and we agree as the august House that Ministers have never been here. We urge the
Government, through you Mr. President to convey the message that Ministers attend sittings in the Senate so that they be able to appreciate us and the works that the chiefs do. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume Thursday, 16th March, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
DELEGATION TO THE 7TH WORLD WATER CONFERENCE
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Parliament of Zimbabwe Delegation to the 7th World Water Conference.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mlotshwa for
bringing and tabling this report in this august House. I want to thank
Madam President Edna Madzongwe for leading the delegation to this
Conference in South Korea and all the Hon. Members who represented Zimbabwe. Mr. President, water is life and it is good for Government to make it a priority. I fully agree that issues of water should be put high on the agenda of every nation.
Mr. President, it is good that this Conference realised that Members of Parliament play a role in the adoption, development, legislation oversight of water related laws. Government should make sure that every household acquires water without problems in the country. Government should also be ahead on the issue of climate change. We have seen in Zimbabwe that seasons are changing and we are having heavy rains in March. It has never been seen like that Mr. President, it is actually something new. Our people will be better prepared for planting if Government gave them enough information on the water patterns. Also, safe drinking water is very important for every Zimbabwean. At the moment we have a huge problem with drinking water, especially drinking water because more and more people are buying water to drink. What about those who cannot afford water to drink. The Government has to make sure that drinking water is available to every Zimbabwean and it is safe to drink.
I want to thank everyone who debated on this motion and I do not have a lot of words to add to this motion. I want to thank you for this opportunity, Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity that you have given me to support the motion that was raised by one of the delegates, Hon. Mlotshwa, whose delegation was led by Madam President. Water is life. When the Lord created the heavens, he created the heavens and the earth, the word of God says that the Lord’s Spirit was searching on the water and there was darkness. He then separated the elements so that the seas where created. The water was first among the Lord’s creation, it came on to this earth later on, and we now say people should be subjected to prepaid water.
Envisage a situation where a child falls ill during the night and there is no prepaid water. Water is a right, I feel very strongly about the needs of having water as a basic right and that it should not be prepaid. Our elders say that you should never play with dirt without water because it will be foolhardy to do that. You may have a patient who is suffering from diarrhoea, envisage a situation where there is no water, it is not attainable. Water is life, it should be there and easily accessed at all material times. Electricity shortages would be appreciated in the homestead, but not the absence of water. There is no substitute for the liquid called water. With electricity, I may go and fetch firewood and prepare a meal. Nothing survives without water.
Much has already been said by others who spoke before me, I felt I should add my voice on this important motion. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 17th March 2016.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI the Senate adjourned at Thirteen Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.