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SENATE HANSARD 18 July 2017 26-69


Tuesday, 18th July, 2017

The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.





HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Mr. President, I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

HON. SEN. NCUBE:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.




Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC – Parliamentary Forum held in Harare, Zimbabwe.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MUMVURI:  Thank you Mr. President, I want to add my voice to this motion raised by Hon. Sen. Mohadi and the seconder.  Firstly, I want to express my concern that of the Hon. Members who attended as observers, there was no single Senator; all of them were from the Lower House.  By virtue of being members, Hon. Sen. Mohadi and Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa attended because there are members of that

Forum.  On observation, I think in future, we must include both Houses – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Yes, I am speaking on behalf of everyone, we should not be marginalised at all.  This is why we are debating it here.  This report is in the Lower House but it is also here, they cannot debate on our behalf.

Mr. President, let me now go to the report itself.  I also noted that they discussed several things which relate to our region.  I am going to touch on two of them. The proposed formation of the regional Parliament is still an outstanding issue.  I want to believe it has been going on for quite some time now without action being taken.  It is imperative that a regional Parliament should be there.

However, I think there is also need that there should be at least some workshops of our Hon. Members here from both Houses for them to know what is going on in the Forum.  Even the intention of forming a regional Parliament – because Hon. Members here do not know what is going on except those people who attend the Forum, yet I want to believe that the issues which they discuss there should have emanated from the national Parliaments and then they go there so that there is a buy in from us.

They discussed the issue of statelessness, that was the theme.  I think we want to say the issue of statelessness has already been introduced into this Senate by one of the Senators who moved a motion and we are quite in tandem with that.  We are trying to tackle the statelessness issue together with the regional body and us.  So, we are not out of touch at all.  I remember it was moved here by Hon Sen.

Timveos, it is on the Order Paper and we are debating that motion.

However, the reasons for statelessness still remain a concern to everyone and these include forced displacements because of conflicts.

Yes, they are bound to happen; it is not only peculiar in Africa. Inaccessibility of services by public administrators, surely that one should be coordinated.  You cannot just give documents to everyone whom you do not know. This is why America and Europe are now in problem because they were too liberal.   The bombings and terrorism going on there cannot be dissociated from liberalisation.

However, the other reason which was noted by the Forum which I want to agree with is the disintegration of traditional family bonds.  That one is very important in African culture.   We should try to revive this, the extended families and so forth so that we live together.  If my brother dies, I should be in a position to get a birth certificate for my late brother’s child in my name so that it is a perpetuation of the family ties and they go on. This business of one man for himself is what is causing the rise in children born out of wedlock. So, I want to support family bonds. The disintegration of families is an unfortunate happening.

They also discussed the SADC Model law and again, I want to reiterate that this issue has been brought to this Senate already and we are discussing it. We are doing a lot there in tandem with the regional body which is still a forum and we are saying it must be transformed into a regional Parliament.

Let me go now to their recommendations which they gave and comment on them. They recommended that they should revive negotiations but I think they should revive efforts on the transformation of the SADC Parliamentary Forum into a legislative body quickly. They gave the timeframe to say by April 2017, but April has gone by. We want to know what has transpired since then because they gave that one as a timeline that something should be done by April 2017. We are already in July.

There is a recommendation that there should be a location of

Parliamentary Studies Institute at the University of Zimbabwe. The Secretary General was to write to our Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education here in Zimbabwe. There was no time limit there. I think it is a welcome development if it is pursued and then implemented.        They also talked about raising awareness on the SADC Model law on eradicating child marriages and protecting those already in marriages. In all fairness, I think we did justice in this House to debate factors which militate against child marriages and what should be proposed there. We need to align our laws and this is where the regional effort should come in if it is done. We are not the only country which is guilty of child marriages – Mozambique and Malawi are on the top list and we should combine our efforts to eradicate this, otherwise we will go nowhere as a continent of Africa.

In addition, I want to specifically task the Portfolio Committee on

Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for leaving out their sister

Thematic Committee on Gender and Development in this House which is ably led by Hon. Sen. Makore. They have spoken quite loudly against child marriages here. I would also want to propose that the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development should also come in as well.

Again, it should not focus on one House.

The other point is to raise awareness on statelessness and I said that one is done. They gave a timeframe that it should be implemented in time for the next Plenary Assembly but they did not give a date for that. From my investigations, I think the next Plenary Session was supposed to be in May or June this year; May and June are gone by.

The other recommendation which they made was the increment in annual membership contribution by 10 per cent. They left this to say National Assemblies should consult with their governments. I do not know whether we have the capacity to increase by 10 per cent when we are struggling to pay the current contributions of R1.4m or N$1.4m per year.

I also picked from the report that Hon. Members should join the “I belong campaign”. This is a noble idea because we are what we are because of others. We must all join hands in order to live together as Africans. The extended families should not be broken and efforts should be put in place to encourage people to live together. The “I belong campaign” is a good idea if it is correctly done. We being Africans, I think you know what we talk about that we always live together. This is an effort to reduce statelessness. We are on course with discussions on this one.

They had a very good and successful conference and I note that Zimbabwe was hosting it for the fifth time. In the history of Zimbabwe we have had eight Parliaments and if we have hosted five times, I think we have done very well. Three quarters of our lives we have hosted these Plenary Sessions on SADC PF.

In conclusion, let everyone know what is going on at this regional body. Let us intensify our efforts to transform it completely from the Parliamentary Forum to a Parliament. A Parliament has got more power because they pass laws and enforce them. A Forum is just a talk shop because they do not have teeth to bite. We summon people here because we have Committees which have the mandate to do so. If it is transformed into a regional Parliament the better, so that we can move in tandem with global trends and modern practices like what the EU does. I do not know whether East Africa have a Parliament now but they are moving towards that. With those few words to the report of SADC

Parliamentary Forum, I thank you.


President. I am grateful for the report which was delivered to us by Senator Mohadi on the SADC Parliamentary Forum. I have noticed that there are about one or two issues which I may want to dwell on. I thank Hon. Sen. Mumvuri for the contribution he has made, so I will not repeat what he has said but I will talk about social fabric disintegration which he touched on.

I notice that we have since lost our culture and customs, not only in Zimbabwe but even in other countries. As Zimbabwe, we are happy that we are talking within SADC countries and we are talking about the cultures and normative values that they should go to the United Nations and be debated there. We have other issues which we are debating but I have got a feeling that we are skirting round the real issues and the truth is that we have done away with our culture and normative values.  When we go to the Western countries, there is an issue which was debated by Hon. Sen. Makore on children’s homes and old people’s homes and I am giving this as an example.  These are a new phenomenon.

In our traditional past and cultural past, old people used to be kept in their families and they would be looked after until they pass on.

When we talk about the people of yesteryear, they would survive up to a 100 years and what is happening now is we are ignoring our parents who are in their 60s or even 70s and we are booking them into these homes and they become inmates.  The people who are paying these funds for their parents go for church services on Saturdays and Sundays and they pray to God.  My question is will God accept you into heaven when you are ignoring your father or mother – [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] -

I will now turn to the other people who are a lost lot, the street kids.  These have come about established because we have lost our culture.  We used to believe in communal system.  We talk about cousins and whatever it is but in our culture we do not have anybody who is called a cousin.  When we refer to that somebody whom we are saying cousin, in our culture they are your brother or sister.  Whether, they belong to your uncle or aunt, you simply call them brother or sister.

We do not have a way whereby we try and explain out the relationship.  This Western culture which we have adopted has led us to ignore our relatives and we dump them.  If you call the person your sister or brother, when you find them in the streets, you take them home because they are your relatives.

This culture of ours has led to the progress and prosperity of our culture, yet we now tend to borrow some foreign cultures, such as thieving or stealing.  When we say do not steal, you should not take what is not yours and you will not be involved in corruption.  If you are employed and you see some money in your office and you take that money as if it is yours, it is because you have lost your culture.

Let me turn to the parliamentary affair whereby we need to create a degree on parliamentary studies in our universities.  I am saying, if we are to launch this degree on parliamentary studies we need to think twice about it.  What I think is, we need to have a diploma or certificate because when somebody is awarded a degree, especially a doctorate degree they think they can go and treat people.  This idea will be so misconstrued that when people attain the degree on parliamentary affairs, they think they can become Members of Parliament.  They would want to come to Parliament and bulldoze.

I am therefore saying the people who would have attain a degree in parliamentary studies will have that notion that whenever there is going to be an election, they are people who should be given first priority because they have that degree.  My feeling is that the studies should be undertaken by parliamentarians and councillors because they are already in this business and they know what to do.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. MOHADI:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MAKONE:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 19th July, 2017.





Third Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA:  I move that the debate do now


HON. SEN. MOHADI:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 19th July, 2017.



Fourth Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. MURWIRA:  Thank you Mr. President for giving

me this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion.  This is regarding the report introduced by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane on

Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals No. 3.

Mr. President, I would like to thank the Committee for moving on this fact finding mission and even came to Murewa and they noticed that at the hospital, there was a broken down X-ray machine which only needed a small amount of money to be repaired.  I am urging the Ministry of Health and Child Care to source for funds to repair this machine so that patients may be treated.

Mr. President, I am also grateful to this Committee because during

the fact finding mission, they realised that there were a few health workers in these institutions.  I am begging the Ministry of Health and Child Care to increase the number of health workers in these institutions so that there can be progress and health to the nation.

I am also looking at the youths because we talked about health and the young children, especially those under five.   Mr. President, we have a problem with the modern day mothers.  These modern day mothers are not proud of breastfeeding their children and yet according to our culture, children need to be breastfed until they attain the age of two.  Therefore, I am begging the people of this country, especially the health workers to encourage nursing mothers to breastfeed their children instead of giving them supplementary foods.

Again, when I look at these children under the age of five, they have some vaccinations which they have to undergo.  As a country, we should make it a point that these children are really vaccinated.  However, we have problems, especially in my constituency in Seke. The apostolic sect does not take children for vaccinations.  On the contrary, the adults seek for medical attention in health institutions, yet they deny that facility to their children.  I am saying, as a nation, children should also be vaccinated.  So, I am urging this august House to pass a law that will make it compulsory for all the children under five years to be vaccinated so that they are protected from the vagaries of these illnesses.  

As a nation, we should pass on the health information to everyone so that they are aware of what is going on.  This is so, because in our case, we started building health facilities in all the areas of Zimbabwe but unfortunately these are incomplete projects and people have to move long distances to access health services.  Some of them even prefer dying peacefully or painfully in their homes because of fear of the distance that they have to travel to seek medical attention.  I am very grateful to this hard working Thematic Committee which did this fact finding mission.  I urge them to travel to all the other places in the country.  I used to think this was only done to pass time but I have realised that we need to be healthy because even when we talk of

Zimbabwe being the bread basket of Southern Africa, we cannot carry out our agricultural activities when we are sick but we need to be healthy to be productive and progressive as a country.  I thank you.

+HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA:  Thank you Mr. President for

affording me the opportunity to debate.  I am happy that all members of the Committee have debated thoroughly on this report.  I would like to add just one thing because most of the things have been mentioned and I shall not repeat them.  The only thing I would like to talk about is the

Traditional Healers’ Act, that is those who use traditional methods of healing people and the things that we used to do.  As a Committee, we have called members of the associations which are related to traditional medicines and the Ministry would like to work in liaison with these tradition healers.  If the traditional healers bring their own stuff it would probably help.

What we are looking at is the well being of a person in this SDG 3 report, the well being of all ages.  When I look at the well being of all ages, it means people should eat well.  I would like to make it clear in this august House that as Zimbabweans when it comes to issues of giving each other food, when there is food in the country and

Government is sourcing food under the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services the objective is to try and meet the well being of all ages.  In this country our food is not distributed well.  Those who are greedy, after taking that food, should remember that other people also need to eat so that they can be well and as a country, we can meet the requirements of SDG 3.

Now, we looking at HIV/AIDS, it is an endemic which is in our country.  There is need for people to eat well to enable them to take their medication.  When they do not eat well, it is the Government’s responsibility if they die because they will have failed to give them food because they will not have sung the required songs.  When we look at traditional healers, we note that there are many plants in this country.  I remember way back, during the drought times, there were certain plants which people would prepare drink or eat because the plant would help to fend off hunger.  Let me also ask what we should do to those areas affected by drought and they cannot feed themselves.  There is need for those who know the right plants to eat to open up and give that information to our scientists so that they can conduct researches on those plants and find out the efficacy of such plants’ medicinal or food properties.  Since we have a Traditional Healers’ Act and the Ministry of Health and Child Care would like to liaise with the traditional healers, this issue should be broadly debated.  There are some plants which we can use when we are hungry and some that we can use when we have diseases.  These plants are being taken by other countries and being beneficiated into drugs and then we end up buying those drugs from those countries.

Let me also talk about matters of Ekusileni Hospital.  This hospital was the vision of the late Cde Joshua Nkomo, father Zimbabwe, which is in Bulawayo.  It is a good hospital, it was good for such problematic diseases and machines were placed there so that people could be helped to be well.  There are some diseases that cannot be attended to because of the needed sophistication.  If you compare Ekusileni and Mpilo hence, much difference between the two because of the particular congestion that you find at Mpilo.  A doctor will not be able to operate properly there.  That is why there was Ekhusileni for these diseases which were special and needed specialist attendance.

Government should quickly attend to Ekhusileni before it gets dilapidated.  It is very good; there are just minor things that need to be attended to.  There is probably need for someone to identify with the vision of the founder who had a vision for that hospital.  It is important for that hospital to be functional so that people can get help.  That hospital will not only serve the locals but it is for the well being of all Zimbabweans.  With those few words, I thank you Mr. President.

+HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Thank you Mr. President.  I would like to thank the Chairperson of the SDGs, Hon. Sen. Mtshane and his seconder for bringing this motion.  We have learnt a lot from this motion on SDG 3 We only conducted one outreach since our inception because there were no financial resources so that we could go around looking at matters related to the SDGs.  Therefore on these SDGs, there are issues of the right to live, the well being of all age groups.

When we look at some of these things Mr. President, you will find that the aged live a difficult life in hospitals when they go there.  They are not received as people who still have some time to live; they are looked at as people who are just about to die.  They are given panadols and told to go back home.  Can this be thoroughly examined because these people also want to live and that is why they visit the hospital but because of their age, they are despised and looked down upon.

In these hospitals, if you do not have US$20, you are told to go back home.  We will continue debating; we want to look at the wellbeing of all age groups.  They should be attended to well in hospitals but if they do not have money, they are not attended to in the hospitals.  Where is the well-being there?  One is admitted if they have US$20, and without that money you are send back home.  The Government should thoroughly look at the matter of people without money, they should be attended to even on credit so that they pay later.  At my provincial hospital in Gwanda, if one does not have money, they are sent back home.

We went to Murehwa and through discussions with people there on how they are being attended to, it was clear that there was a donor who had put in some financial resources so that anyone without money could be attended to.  Therefore, Mr. President, if there is a donor looked for by the Government, that donor should cater for all hospitals so that people are helped because people do not have the money to pay.  It is important for their health.

Again, women who are pregnant and also young mothers, there is no communication between the police and the parents.  An under-aged girl is registered pregnant and gives birth and the person who would have impregnated that under-aged child goes without being arrested or justice done.  There should be education on under-aged girls particularly in hospitals where under-aged pregnant young girls are registered.  These hospitals just register these under-aged pregnant girls.  When a child gets pregnant and is under-aged, the responsible person should be made accountable and persecuted.

The mothers’ health and welfare should also be looked into.  The mother who is pregnant should be properly fed and the woman should be examined in hospitals.  In some places, such services are not paid for but in some it is paid for.  Some mothers end up visiting the hospital when they are about to give birth due to lack of money to register.  The Government should look into such matters so that there will not be a high mortality rate by pregnant women because they do not have money to pay at the hospital.

We expect the well-being of all age groups to be looked into; they should be in good health through accessing health services and received well at hospitals.  They should understand that people earn resources differently.

On the other hand, if a mother is not properly fed during pregnancy, she will not give birth to a healthy baby.  A well-fed pregnant woman will give birth to a healthy baby who will grow well but if the pregnant woman is not well fed, the baby will not grow well.

Some of the babies may become obese; this is because of lack of resources to feed the mothers so that their children grow well.

Children who are being raped are attended to at hospitals without identifying the perpetrator who would have raped the child.  That child will be under aged.  It is important that people are made aware of such things so that they know about their life.  Mr. President, there are many things that have been said on this Committee on SDGs since we conducted outreaches in hospitals. We went to Murehwa. There was no money for us to gather evidence on our own and to reach out to communities in hospitals so that we can implement what we agreed with other countries that by 2030, we will be at a particular state.

There was need for us to go on outreaches in communities so that by 2030, we would be able to meet the goals on these SDGs on health, wellness at all ages and in towns and rural areas. People value food which does not give them good health. When we grew up, we would eat small grains and they would make us strong. We would eat small grains like rapoko and sorghum, and our bodies would grow and would not be susceptible to diseases. With those words Mr. President, I thank you.



President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th July, 2017.





Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.

        Question again proposed.

+HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Thank you Mr. President – [AN

HON. SEN: Speak in Shona this time.]-


SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Order, Ndebele is a language which is

allowed in this House.  

+HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Thank you Mr. President. I would

like to thank Hon. Sen. Timveos, the Chairperson of this Committee. We went out as a Committee and visited a State University in Zvishavane. We talked to the students and what affected me most was that this university recruited too many students whereas it had no infrastructure to cater for those numbers. These students stay far away from the institution. So, the students were saying that their parents do not have enough resources to cater for their rentals outside the university. They were saying they are living a difficult life by approaching their bursars or sugar daddies who give them money to sustain their lives.

As such Mr. President, by virtue of the numbers of the children who are students in the country, it is important that they should be given grants. We have a lot of students and we are under sanctions. There is no way we can access the money to help our children so that they can have grants whilst they are attending their education. There are a lot of things that were said which were pertaining to the hardships faced by the students. If they could have those grants, they would help themselves. They were also saying even though they were being attended to their medicinal issues, they do not have enough machinery or infrastructure for them to be attended to at the health institution.

The girls who want to be examined, their uteruses particularly cervical cancer; it becomes so difficult because they end up queuing and going back to their school without being attended to. A lot of things were raised and others have said a lot. It seems I am now making a repeat of what was said by others. With those words Mr. President, I thank you.

  *HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President. I would

like to say a few words on the motion which was raised by Hon. Sen.

Timveos. I would like to say they did a great job which is commendable, but they still have more to do despite the extent which they have done. On the fact finding, they discovered a lot of things and this is similar to what I watched on television whereby I was watching the programme on‘Positive Talk’ by lady Tariro. They talked about a place which is called Gaza. There were some children who were in that picture and when they were discovered at that place, they ran away because they knew that they were not supposed to be at that place. Hence, I am saying there are a lot of things going on at these tertiary institutions and some customs which these youngsters acquire.

Let me talk of the boys. They end up indulging in elicit brews and drugs and they end up getting sick. We noticed that when these children moved from their homes to these tertiary institutions, they end up trying to get extra support so that they can fend for themselves and they end up acquiring these STIs and other incurable diseases.  My wish is that when we are debating such pertinent issues, the Ministers should be in this

House and listen to the debates so that they can source for funds.  Again,

I realise that we do not have enough funds but when they are here, they would be listening and source for the funds because we know that in this modern day, our children are coming across some painful aspects of life and as parents, we need to be disseminating information to them.

I am saying we are a lucky lot because we have chiefs in this august House who I also beg that they should talk to the headmen so that our culture is upheld.  We used to believe in communal punishment and advice to children.  But as of now, if you were to try and give direction and advice to some of these youngsters, they would really give you an answer which would disturb you.  They reply back and even their parents will also insult you for interfering with their children’s welfare.  Therefore, I am begging that as Members of this august House; let us work hand in hand with our Government so that we look for ways of solving social problems which are in tertiary institutions or any other high schools.

I wish you would travel to all these institutions, especially in places like Chiredzi where people are getting money through sugarcane farming.  Even in the cotton areas, you can visit those areas and you will be surprised by the disturbing life which is lived by the youngsters in such places whereby people want to eke a living by living dangerously.  I am saying, there are some places which I wish you would visit and bring this information to this august House because when you look at this place, there is no discrimination by race, colour, creed or culture.  We need to put our heads together and work with our chiefs in solving these cultural problems which are within us.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. TIMVEOS:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MARAVA:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th July, 2017.






Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the chance to debate on this very important motion.  Mr. President Sir, our Constitution states very clearly that anyone who was born in Zimbabwe is a Zimbabwean citizen but, we have so many people who are or were born in this country and they do not have citizenship.  I am saying so because we call them aliens.  You cannot be both an alien and a citizen at the same time.  If you are an alien, you are not a citizen.  The Constitution also says if either of your parents or your grandparents are Zimbabwean, you are a citizen of Zimbabwe and there are more than half a million of those people in this country who are still called aliens.

When someone is an alien and they do not also qualify to be a citizen of any other country because they were not born there, you have rendered that person stateless.  We have so many individuals in this country Mr. President who we are rendering stateless because of not translating the spirit and letter of the Constitution.  There is no Christian reason why those people are still required to go and renounce a citizenship which they have never possessed.  You can only renounce something that you have.

Mr. President Sir, we can talk and talk in this House but, I honestly do not believe that we are doing any justice to our Government if we do not speak the truth to power.  We need the Constitution to be put into place or practice as the three million people that voted for it required it to be.

Mr. President Sir, there are people who are now sleeping in the bush because they do not have papers and they were pushed away from the land that they had been residing on - they have no ruzevha.  So what are we saying as a people?  What are we doing?  We are signatories to the SADC and the AU Protocols that say no one shall be on our lands and they are stateless, yet we have our children born in this country and they remain stateless.  Unless and until I personally hear voices from all sides of the political divide in this country, I shall always hang my head very low and ashamed to call myself a Zimbabwean.  We owe it to our Constitution and to the people of Zimbabwe to ensure that there is no child born on this soil who is stateless, especially that antiquated law of having to go and renounce citizenship – it works for somebody who had the citizenship.

Mr. President Sir, I cannot even carry on because I get so emotional when I start debating on something like this.  I am not personally affected but I know thousands of people that are affected by this law and if we are Africans – real Africans in the sense of the word, vana vevhu. There is no way we should be allowing this to happen. Not on our land and not on our watch. I thank you Mr. President.

HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th July, 2017.



Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees (SDCs) and School

Development Associations (SDAs).

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. I know that

the Minister responded to this motion, but firstly, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for the research which she did and the evidence that she gave us in this House that truly the Minister went to schools and talked about the SS Fund. I do not agree that those schools which were found in possession of the letters were lying…


SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Order! I am advised that this

particular matter is now before the President of the Senate for adjudication to make a ruling to determine which direction we should go. So, maybe debating it would be like preempting what is already before a properly competent office. I plead with you to exercise patience and await the ruling by the President that should give us direction.

HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: On a point of order Mr. President. The

motion is still on the Order Paper, and in my view if it is on the Order Paper, it is subject to a debate. Given the advice you have given - I do not want to argue with you, but I want to believe it should have been removed from the Order Paper. As long as it is there, I think I am entitled to debate it.


here I am in a very unenviable position because those who have put this motion on the Order Paper are the same people who have advised me again that this should not be debated. So, I beg once more for your patience that since we are all aware that this matter is now before the President of the Senate for a ruling, maybe we can wait until the President of the Senate has made such a ruling. I believe there will be an opportunity once that is done to either debate or go whichever direction.

HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Mr. President, I rest my case.

HON. SEN. KHUMALO: On a point of order. The days continue

to accrue and soon they will reach 21 days yet it is not being debated.

Because of that I think we need to debate it.


advised that you can actually adjourn the debate to tomorrow, Thursday or next week.

HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.


Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 25th July, 2017.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI), the Senate adjourned at Twelve Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. 

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