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SENATE HANSARD 19 OCTOBER 2023 VOL. 33 No. 9
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 19th October, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:
I have to remind Hon. Senators to switch off their cellphones.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to
remind Hon. Senators that today is Thursday and it is question time. I have a number of apologies that have been submitted and are as follows:
Hon. Gen. (Rtd.) Dr. C.G.D.N. Chiwenga, Vice President; Hon. K. D.
Mnangagwa, Deputy Minister of Finance and Investment Promotion;
Hon. M. N. Ndlovu, Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife; Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri, Minister of Defence; Hon. F. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage; Hon. Z. Soda, Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. Prof. Murwira, Minister of
Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development; Hon. S. Sibanda, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development; Hon. F.
Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development; Hon.
Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; Hon. Dr.
Masuka, Minister of Lands Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural
Development; Hon. V. P. Haritatos, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development; Hon. Chitando, Minister of Local Government and Public Works.
In the Senate today, we have Hon. Minister Ziyambi, Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs; Hon. Mombeshora, Minister of
Health and Child Care; Hon. Moyo, Minister of Energy and Power
Development; Hon. Dr. Mavetera, Minister of ICT; Hon. Mupamhanga, Deputy Minister of Youth Empowerment and Vocational Training
Centres; Hon. Dinha, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare; Hon. Mazungunye, Deputy Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. Hon. Ministers, you are welcome.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Social Welfare but in his absence, I direct my question to the Leader of Government Business. My question is about food relief. Our people mostly in Matebeleland South, especially in Beitbridge, have gone for more than five months without any food aid. I just wanted to know when they can get food.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DINHA): Thank you Mr.
President. Government had stopped distribution of grains but I think now there is an allocation and there are tonnes of maize which are there, so the distribution is going to resume in the next few weeks.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think Hon.
Senators are going to be monitoring that because apparently, there is a lot of hunger out there.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Hon. Minister of ICT. The country intends to have internet access at village level by 2030 through the extension of the fiber optic backbone and last mobile connectivity. In this regard, the Government, during the NDS1 period, targets to increase internet penetration rate from 59.1% in 2020 to 75.4% by 2025. Mobile penetration is expected to be increased by 100%.
May the Hon. Minister explain to this Senate, the key strategies that are being implemented by her Ministry to ensure the set target is achieved on access to internet?
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION AND TECHNOLOGY (HON. DR. MAVETERA): Thank you very
much, good afternoon Mr. President Sir. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Kambizi for that very important question. Yes indeed, as a Ministry, it is within our strategy to make sure that we increase mobile penetration and also make sure that we reach 100% mark. We want to make sure that on the network penetration from now, we are on 65% and we want to reach 100%. How do we intend to do that? The first thing that we have managed to do and that we are trying to do is to make sure that we enhance our policy which is on infrastructure sharing. We have got a lot of telecommunication operators that are operating in the country but what we need now is the issue of us sharing all the towers that are there. What we have managed to do now is, we have got a tower relocation policy that we have put in place, where now we are realising that they start sharing the infrastructure and that will also minimise expenses and resources going elsewhere in such a way that they will be able to take the resources that they are using to build towers elsewhere.
Again, as a Ministry, we have a policy of getting funds from the Universal Services Funds. This is a fund which is coming up from a lot of other telecom players whenever we phone or whenever we use the Internet. This Universal Services Fund which is being managed by POTRAZ then also goes on and builds towers which will then enhance internet connectivity. However, we also have got Community Information Centres which are dotted all over the country. As of today, we have got more than 200 Community Information Centres and what we want now is for us to put to good use the Community Information Centres.
The use of the Community Information Centres is for us to have Internet coming up from all the areas so that people can be able to access the Internet. In the rural areas, we then realise that people are accessing the Internet through the Community Information Centres. However, when it comes to fibre connectivity, we are now looking at an issue of us having shared infrastructure and that way it can actually then be able to enhance what we want to do.
On mobile penetration, indeed you see connectivity. We have been engaging and talking with all the telecom players so that they see that there is a great need for them to continuously be providing good services to the public. We have got containerised information centres that we are launching now. We have already got some which are already stationed in different areas of the country. What we want now is for us to have access, but let me continuously assure you that it is something that we are seized with. We want to make sure that we move towards ensuring that the rural populace also access mobile Internet connectivity that we can have. So indeed, we will engage all these strategies so that we will be able to achieve this. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. President. Riding on Hon.
Sen. Kambizi’s question of the existing infrastructure. What I have personally experienced, and I want to believe most of us, I could put it to 50% to 60% will have to wait in order for you to access Internet. In other words, it is not only Internet, but network can be down. What is your consideration in order to enhance and strengthen the infrastructure so that we do not lose time, we do not lose whatever that we want to do in that time we are waiting either at the shops, banks and so on? What is your consideration in order to enhance and strengthen the existing infrastructure?
HON. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you very much Mr. President.
Let me also thank Hon. Sen. Zindi for that very important question. Indeed with the existing infrastructure, what we want to do is that, I think we need to come up with measures and ways for us to have, especially when you realise you do not have connectivity and probably electricity is not available. So what we need to do is for us to look for green ways for us to be able to capacitate these base stations and towers. We need to have more power coming through, even from generators and solar powered systems that will be put in place. That will actually ensure that at least we always have Internet access whenever we want it. You will also realise that, in the rural areas especially, the other challenge that we have is that we have schools through our national e-learning strategy that have got VISAT being used. You will realise that in those areas again, sometimes some schools will not even be able to access
Internet, what will be the challenge there?
The challenge is that we have got a policy that we have within our
Ministry to make sure that when we supply Internet, it is only for a year. It means that after that, they are not capacitated enough to then be able to sustain their operations because they will not be having internet. So then that becomes the problem. However, to be honest with you, maybe I will talk more on the technical side to say, you realise as a country we get most of our fiber overseas. We are not getting it locally because we are a land locked country, it becomes expensive for us as a country. So, what we then need to do is for us to continuously capacitate these telecom companies to make sure that they are quite efficient and also to make sure that at least they also come up with competitive rates which will make them sustain the operations and make sure they are always there to provide the network.
They have been complaining of late to say we are hoping that we could have tariff increases so that we can then be able to give a good service to the people of Zimbabwe. What we just need to do is for us to get on the drawing table and make sure that the consumers will not be crying foul and also even the telecom companies will also be feeling that it is quite a good and safe environment to be trading in. So indeed, we will continuously engage them so that at least they give the best connectivity that they have. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAVHENYENGWA: Thank you Mr. President.
My question is directed to the Minister of Youth Empowerment and Vocational Training Centres. I can see the Deputy Minister is in here. I want to find out from the Hon. Minister Government policy on developing our rural youth so that they can also get some facilities similar to those found in urban areas such as stadia. What programmes do we have at the moment which are being done by the Ministry to assist our rural youth?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT AND VOCATIONAL CENTRES (HON. MUPAMHANGA): Thank
you Mr. President. At the moment, the Ministry of Youth Empowerment and Vocational Training Centres is working on strengthening existing systems. As you know, the Ministry has recently split from the Ministry of Sport, Arts and Culture and as we speak, it is conducting strategic meetings in order to direct the Ministry in the years coming up.
In the rural areas, we have a number of VTCs and VTC satellite institutions to provide courses and skills training to young people in those areas. Further, we are also looking at implementing a number of programmes and consider programmes such as the National Youth Service as well as creating symbiotic relationships with the Ministries that affect the youth, such as the Ministry of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture and focal people in the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality as well as the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. So at the moment, those are the issues that we are looking at. I would not like to pre-empty the results of our strategic meeting which will end on Friday, but we have a number of programmes to target specifically rural youths.
I thank you.
THE HON. TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON.
KAMBIZI): Let me welcome the Minister of Veterans Affairs of the Liberation Struggle and his deputy who I have not yet welcomed. Both of you are welcome in the Senate.
*HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Health, Hon. Mombeshora. There are allegations that there is a hospital in Mutare, Sakubva which is called Sakubva Eye Unit. There is a maternity labour ward. In that ward, there are allegations that women who go into labour are usually threatened that they may not be able to deliver without a caesarian section. Furthermore, there is an allegation that there are 13 to 15 caesarian operations per day at that hospital. Those people who pay for those operations are not given receipts. Given such a scenario, what can be done to rectify that because when people say that I am their Senator, I must bring that question to the Minister of Health and Child cARE? Where there is smoke there is fire. It means there is something happening. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Sen. Zindi, I have two issues here. Firstly, if you want to ask a question in vernacular, please do so without mixing up languages.
Secondly, the Question Time on Thursday is meant for policy issues. Hon. Minister, if you have any information about that allegation, you can respond.
*THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- MOMBESHORA): Thank you Mr. President. The question that was raised is pertinent because it is an eye-opener. However, I cannot respond at this moment because we firstly need to investigate. Under such an allegation, we need to investigate and I will bring the response after getting the details. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Justice. The Constitution of Zimbabwe is clear under Section 17 on gender balance. We are talking about equality of women and men in all spheres of the Zimbabwean society. It further mandates Government to promote the full participation of women in all spheres on the basis of equality. My question is, what measures has Government put in place to ensure that this provision is implemented in the Government, private sector and everywhere else ensuring that there is 50:50 participation of women? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. JESAYA): Thank you Mr.
President Sir. Thank you Hon. Sen. Mupfumira for the question. Indeed, it is Government policy and also the Constitution of Zimbabwe to afford a 50:50 balance in respect of gender in our country’s laws and systems. I need to assure the Hon. Members that Government is doing all its best in all sectors of the country to ensure that gender balance is accorded in all respects, especially in regards to the Constitution. It is being followed in all areas of Government. In that respect, there are measures or awareness programmes which are being availed in all sectors to ensure that all that is achieved in that regard. That would be a brief response in respect of that question.
HON SEN. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. President. I appreciate the response by the Minister of Justice. My supplementary question is on his response in which he stated that Government is taking all necessary steps to ensure there is gender balance. What necessary steps can he make reference to, to ensure there is gender balance? This question has not risen only today or has been asked only today. It is a question that has always been asked and we do not have specific measures to ensure that gender balance is implemented. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. JESAYA: Thank you Mr. President. I think one key step that will be necessary is to make sure that women who have been marginalised are represented in all sectors. That is one key step that can be done and what the Government is doing to achieve that balance in all leadership positions and ensure that women are also included, either by way of quota system or other steps is for women to also be accommodated in those key roles in Government. Even to ensure that companies do hire more women in that regard. That will also assist in arriving at that gender balance, that is the Government policy. Those are the key issues that might be necessary to create that balance. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ZHOU: Thank you very much Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. According to the National Disability Policy of 2021, there is provision for support to persons with disabilities including their children. So far, many doors of opportunity have been opened through the Disability Fund, but only those with disabilities are benefiting, whilst their off-springs are not having access due to lack of enforcement of the policy. What steps could be done to ensure that policy provisions are implemented so as to allow these children born to parents with disabilities to have access, especially to education support? I am talking about tertiary education support at universities and polytechnic colleges so that we break the poverty cycle.
My second question is on BEAM. There are many special schools catering for children with disabilities. They largely depend on BEAM funds and once this assistance delays in coming, these centres are dry of resources and provisions like food and other stuff. I understand that at the moment, schools opened early September and up to now, nothing has been done to disburse BEAM funds to those special institutions. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DINAH): Thank you Hon
Members for the questions. In the case of BEAM, it is not just the disabled people who are being affected. The problem is with arrears in payment of BEAM amounting to 50 billion dollars. Fourteen million dollars will be released and the 36 billion remainder will be released later. The outcry is all over as the arrears are both for school fees and examination fees for students registered under BEAM. For the ordinary students, BEAM covers education from primary up to secondary school. However, for the disabled, there is a facility to complete tertiary education as well but that has also been affected by those arrears. Then on the issue of the dependants, there is US$50 paid at the official bank rate for the disabled dependants but it is also being affected by the arrears. The money is not being released.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Can you
please expedite payments because these issues affect the people in the rural areas and most of these Senators are coming from the rural areas.
So, it is an issue which is very close to their hearts.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MATHUPULA: My question is directed to
the Minister of Health. We have seen outbreaks or various places in the country being put on high alert due to the cholera menace. What is the magnitude of the problem that we have in the country pertaining to cholera and what steps has the Ministry taken to ensure this cholera outbreak does not spread to other areas and is contained in those particular areas?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- MOMBESHORA): Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief Mathupula for the question. Let me start by acknowledging that we have a cholera outbreak in the country but this outbreak started in February this year. It flared up and subsided to the extent that in July, some provinces were declared cholera free but in August around the 26th, we saw a flare up of cases, especially in Manicaland’s Buhera District. We have also seen a flare up in Masvingo, especially Gutu District and this is as recent as this week. It is not a very high burden to the country but to the districts affected and we have lost a few lives in those districts.
We have put a lot of measures in place especially preventive measures because cholera is a disease spread by poor hygiene conditions. In the areas concerned, we have also realised there is another element besides poor hygiene, which is religious beliefs where those affected do not seek medical attention in the health institutions. So, our responses are targeted to reduce the spread in the community through provision of clean water to drink. As we speak, we have deployed some rigs in Buhera District to drill some boreholes in villages affected which did not have safe water to drink. The boreholes are going to be equipped with solar powered pumps and tanks will be installed to ensure that people in the village access clean water. The other intervention is communicating best practices in terms of hygiene. We have deployed our environmental health officers in all the districts to engage community leaders, traditional leaders, church leaders as well as schools and teach basic hygiene so that people have knowledge that they should wash their hands before eating, boil water for cooking and avoid using river water because we have tested some of the rivers and realised that the water is also contaminated.
We also, on the curative side, set up some cholera treatment camps which are manned by our health staff. We have also deployed some doctors since most of the clinics are not manned by doctors but as from this week, we have asked the Provincial Medical Directors to withdraw some doctors from other institutions and these will then go round the clinics in affected areas to ensure that the quality of care is improved. We are also setting up what we call rehydration camps and these are tents set up for those with mild diseases and they just go there and get oral rehydration without using any intravenous fluids. We have also activated the Civil Protection Unit in all the districts to work with us to ensure that we are in control of the outbreak.
In short, those are some of the measures that we have taken as a
Ministry to ensure that the cholera outbreak is contained in the districts. Unfortunately, because of mobility, you will find that we have got almost 41 districts in the country that have reported cases but in some of these districts, the numbers are just as low as one or two people but we are insisting that the same measures be taken even if the numbers are that low. I thank you Mr. President. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAVHENYENGWA: My follow up question to the
Hon. Minister is that, in Masvingo Province, there are also cases reported of Cholera, not only in Gutu District, but Bikita, Chiredzi and Zaka districts where people drink water from the rivers, especially those in Chiredzi who take water from Chiredzi River. I wanted to know if boreholes are also going to be drilled in those areas. We have Cholera in Bikita and we lost lives.
HON. DR. MOMBESHORA: Yes, I appreciate your question. In
fact, the spread has been coming from Buhera and that is why Bikita was the first district to be affected followed by Zaka and Chiredzi. I have mentioned Gutu because Gutu has had the highest number despite it being affected late. We are instituting all these measures in all the districts. Unfortunately, some of the areas have had very dry boreholes, but we have requested our counterparts in the Ministry of Lands,
Agriculture and Water. They are responsible for the WASH programme and I am informed that they are going to drill about 30 boreholes. What they have asked for is to be told specific areas where these boreholes are to be drilled and that information should be coming from the Provincial
Minister of State and Devolution working together with the Provincial Medical Director. So, work is being done in those areas. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: My question was meant for
the Minister of Transport, but since he is not around, may we defer it to next week. May I now direct a question to the Minister of Justice? What is Government’s policy with regards to aligning of the Traditional Leaders Act with the Constitution? We have realised that there are some conflicts between the Traditional Leaders’ Act and the Constitution.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Sen. Chief, but that question should be directed to the Minister of Local Government. I do not know whether the Minister of Justice is able to answer that question.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MAZUNGUNYE): Mr.
President, that question should be directed to the Ministry of Local Government. However, as Parliament, we are mandated to ensure that our laws are aligned to the Constitution and we are expected to align those laws.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon.
Senator, I do not think your question was responded to, the way you expected it to be. May you keep that question so that we have it responded to next week.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: My question is directed to the Minister of Sports, Recreation, Arts and Culture. What is Government policy with regards to ensuring that as a country, we host soccer tournaments in this country because I understand we are going to be playing in Rwanda? That is demoralising and retrogressive to the sport.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORTS, RECREATION,
ARTS AND CULTURE (HON. JESAYA): I want to thank the Hon.
Senator for that question. As a Ministry of Sports, Recreation, Arts and Culture, I am glad that soccer players were suspended, but the suspension or ban has been lifted and we are now able to compete at international level. With regard to hosting soccer matches as a country, we are unable to host soccer matches in this country. What I would like to inform the House is that the bureau has since lifted the ban and there is normalisation. We have not officially been informed with regards to hosting local matches as far as Rwanda, but if they inform us, we will come back to the Senate to inform you on that development.
HON. SEN. ZINDI: My question is directed to the Minister of War Veterans Affairs, but maybe let me first congratulate him on his appointment as Minister of War Veterans Affairs. We have quite a number of war veterans whose offer letters are being withdrawn. Sometimes being withdrawn because perhaps, baba or the one whose name was written on the offer letter has passed on and the children cannot inherit, then automatically withdrawn. These are some of the cases we are getting in Manicaland. So, my question to the Hon.
Minister is, what is his Ministry’s policy direction particularly when it involves war veterans who, by nature, were the ones who took up arms to fight the colonialists in order to liberate this country? With the principle of Gutsaruzhinji, we are now having the same war veterans’ offer letters, their children cannot inherit those farms which have been offered to their parents, what is the policy direction? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF VETERANS OF THE LIBERATION STRUGGLE (HON. SEN. C. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Mr.
President. I want to first thank the Senate as this is my first time to speak in this Senate as Minister of War Veterans. I appreciate your attendance and I will try as much as possible to be present when this debate is going on. Hon. Sen. Zindi also happens to be a war veteran and comrade in arms during the struggle. I totally sympathise with the plight of the war veterans as she has described. I am still new in the Ministry because this Ministry was there before, then it was shifted going to the Ministry of Defence and I am happy that His Excellency has seen it fit to restore the Ministry of War Veterans Affairs and I have a
Deputy Minister who is also a war veteran who happens to be here, Hon.
Mavhunga. I have raised this issue already with the Hon. Minister of Agriculture, as you know he is the one who administers all land affairs on behalf of the President.
We are slated to meet on this particular issue with his team and my team. Once it is constituted, you will appreciate that as a new Ministry, we have to start from zero, setting up the structure of the Ministry. We are in the process of doing so and we are happy that the President has appointed a Permanent Secretary, Mr. Clive Mphambela, formerly from the Ministry of Finance. I have already tasked him to start looking into this issue as we prepare for a meeting with the Ministry of Lands. I want to state that the Constitution is very clear, the land of the war veterans is sacrosanct, and if there is anybody who has been behaving in a wayward manner, then it is in contravention of the Constitution. Now that we have a line Ministry administering that aspect of the Constitution, we will ensure that we shall stick to the law of the Constitution. Where there has been deviance from what should normally have been declared in support of the Constitution, we will seek restitution and if there is any resistance, then we will have to read the law to those people who would have unfairly benefited from the land, particularly this deposition of widows and their off-spring, because somebody else has written an offer letter which abridges the original owner who is protected by the Zimbabwean Constitution. I thank you. HON. SEN. MOHADI: My follow up question is, you will find these widows will be owning land, and sometimes as people are now mining, if it happens that minerals are discovered in that farm, the widow is then chased away. What is Government policy regarding this issue? I thank you.
HON. SEN. C. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. I
fully understand the import of the question that has been asked. Obviously, this one requires reconciliation between the rights of a farmer and the rights of a miner under our law. I think we are one of the unique countries in the world where by history, what is underground was deemed to belong to the State. Remember, originally the State of
Zimbabwe was a private company called BSA Company of Cecil John Rhodes. He was the owner of the land at that particular time. In historical fields between him and the increasing number of white settlers, I think there was a dispensation to say what is above the land can belong to the farmers who were white settlers, not of course the blacks who were dispossessed under the Land Apportionment Act. What belongs under the ground belongs to the State which was the company. So, we have this anomaly in our law and it turns to have a bias towards the miner against the farmer. So, this is what is at issue in our law and I think I have to find out what is the claim state of affairs with the Minister of Mines and the Minister of Lands in terms of reconciling that aspect of our history so that the rights of the farmers can also be protected.
This is an issue of the Constitution of the country. I want perhaps the Hon. Minister of Justice and the Ministers of Mines and Lands to also be able to have some input. In this particular instance, you will realise that it is not my Ministry that administers that aspect of the question that has been raised. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. My
follow up question is, we have been informed that there is a problem that children who are supposed to be beneficiaries of offers are being disposed of their land. As a Ministry, why are you not opening up channels to assist them because sometimes they are dispossessed of the offer letter and they do not even know where to go? May you inform them on the measures they can take so that war veterans’ children or beneficiaries who may be dispossessed of land seek help. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. C. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Hon. Senator for
that question. What I would like to say is, we are a new Ministry, we started working for, perhaps less than a month now. The President has since appointed the Permanent Secretary and we expect him to have assistants so that we start working. What I can promise is that we are indeed deeply concerned by that case. As we work on the issue of setting up the Ministry, we are going to ensure that we publicise this Ministry and inform them to bring their concerns. We have some of the concerns and we want them addressed, that is work in progress, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Mr. President Sir, I propose
that Question Time be extended by 15 minutes since we have a full bench of Ministers.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Mr. President Sir, may I go
on to ask a question as I am already standing up. Thank you Mr.
President. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Child Care…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order! You
asked for an extension of question time by 15 minutes and you got it. May I follow the order of the list of Hon. Senators that I had earlier lined up.
*HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: My question is directed to the
Minister of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. In Bulawayo, we have a problem. The provincial heroes’ acres have been there for years. Some of the tombstones are inscribed names on them and others have been destroyed. We went to the museum and we asked them to rectify that. Up to now, they have not complied. The other problem is that we dig our own graves as war veterans. Some of us are too old to do that.
What is the policy with regards to that?
*THE MINISTER OF VETERANS OF THE LIBERATION STRUGGLE (HON. SEN. C. MUTSVANGWA): I am deeply
saddened by Hon. Sen. Ndlovu’s concern. Since we now have a Ministry, what I can say is, may those war veterans come to the Ministry. Since you approached me now outside the Senate, I have been informed that there are young children who have now been buried at that cemetery. We would like to ensure that the law where war veterans have been specifically allocated grave sites or cemeteries be adhered to. As you are aware, right now my deputy is busy writing all those questions coming up. We will look into those. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAVENYENGWA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities. The Deputy Minister is here. Our Government promised civil servants that besides their salaries, they will get material benefits such as houses. What is Government policy right now especially in the rural areas in terms of allocating them houses? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND
SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. SIMBANEGAVI): Thank you Mr.
President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mavenyengwa for that question. Firstly, as Government and the Ministry of National Housing and Social Amenities, we already have houses in all the districts and provinces specifically meant for civil servants that they use when they start working. They are supposed to be provided accommodation in those districts but sometimes some of the houses are now too old and dilapidated.
The other thing is, now that Government has expanded, not all civil servants can be accommodated in those districts. Therefore, as a Ministry, we came up with another programme that says civil servants from Deputy Director downwards under such grades, are supposed to get housing loans to build their own houses. That programme is there. It is under the Public Service Commission since that is where the register of civil servants is kept. So that is where those funds are found. All civil servants, be it under the Ministry of Health and Child Care, nurses or teachers, are allowed to apply for those funds. Those funds are allocated in RTGS or Zimbabwean dollars. Those funds are availed according to their grades. Those in higher grades get higher funds. In short, I have said the funds are allocated according to their capability to pay back the loans.
So, what I can say is that at the moment they can get ZWL10 000 000, that is the lowest graded civil servant. This is available to all civil servants. This is supposed to help them to build their own houses so that they report to work freely.
*HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. President. If we say ZWL 10 000 000 as a Ministry of National Housing and Social Amenities, those are the funds available to the lowest graded civil servant and they have agreed to that figure, did they find that reasonable that you can construct a house using ZWL10 000 000. I suppose everything is being procured using United States dollars. The current exchange rate at the black market is around 7 200 or 7 500. If we divide ZWL 10 000 000 by 7 500, how much remains? We want to say Government must provide tangible benefits because at the end, they may end up squandering that money although they are expected to pay it back because the money is not even enough to purchase a stand. So, I am saying Government must provide tangible or reasonable figures. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING
(HON. SIMBANEGAVI): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Zindi as well. I agree with you indeed, that figure is no longer enough to construct a house, but as you are aware, that is Government policy. That is what is available at that moment. It does not mean that we do not review all those things that have been put in place at some point. I can assure you that as Ministry of National Housing, we are taking measures to ensure that funds are increased to match the prices that have gone up. When that fund was put aside, it was in accordance to the prevailing rate at that time because the rate was around 2000. Indeed that figure was reasonable, but I agree with you that we need to review that figure so that our civil servants have better accommodation. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Mr. President. Allow me to direct my question to the Minister of Health. We faced problems with regards to COVID-19 in the past, and I would like to find out whether this pandemic will not come back considering the temperatures are going to change during this rainy season. The other issue is are there no side effects emanating from the vaccines because there are other ailments that are coming up and was suspecting it is because of the COVID vaccines and people are just wondering. I would like the Hon. Minister to assure us whether there are no side effects of the COVID vaccines. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- MOMBESHORA): Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to respond. Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief for that question. The COVID-19 pandemic did not only affect us as a country, but many other countries. There was no treatment for it, but efforts were made to come up with the vaccines. In this country, many people got vaccines and it led to the decrease of the pandemic. There were three vaccines where the first vaccine got a lot of uptake. The second vaccine was almost in between and the third vaccine had the lowest uptake. We cannot say the pandemic is over right now, it is still there here and there, although cases of ordinary flu are now higher than COVID-19 cases. We still encourage people to take vaccines. We are now taking measures to ensure that we make use of the available vaccines because in about seven months’ time, the vaccines may expire. We are encouraging people to take up those vaccines.
I understand the concerns from the Sen. Chief that there is a suspicion that some of the ailments may be emanating from the vaccines. The vaccines that we administered in this country do not have any side effects. Be rest assured that there are no side effects from the vaccines. The vaccines that we procured from China use the traditional methods like the vaccines that we have such as measles and tuberculosis of inculturation of the virus itself. We refused some of the vaccines that were used overseas like in the United States of America, because we did not know much about them and we cannot say much about them. We were not able to research anything on them, so we did not accept them. There was not much information with regards to their side effects. The social media has been spreading fake news. We have seen on social media that in two years’ time, people who got vaccines will be dying,
not in this country. That is not going to happen, be rest assured.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN.
KAMBIZI): The extended time for time for Questions Without Notice has expired and let me acknowledge the attendance of Ministers since the commencement of the 10th Parliament that it has been encouraging. I would like to say well done.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion to the Presidential
Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR HARARE (HON. SEN.
TAWENGWA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 24th October, 2023.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR HARARE (HON. SEN.
TAWENGWA): Mr. President, I move that Order of the Day, No. 2 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ANTI-CORRUPTION
COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2022
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission for the year 2022.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. President. I also rise to debate on this report by ZACC. In debating this report, I shall highlight the following areas: the success rate of ZACC, the urgent enactment of supporting legislation in fighting corruption, setting up of integrity committees, allegations of corruption in hospitals and in particular, Sakubva Eye Unit in Mutare, Inadequate institutional financial support, employees’ salaries and wages, and lastly effects of corruption in the whole economy as it affects service delivery. I will also suggest recommendations as a way forward in fighting corruption.
Mr. President, I also take this opportunity to congratulate ZACC for having recorded a 72% conviction rate in 2022 of the cases it had referred to the National Prosecuting Authority. I take this as a success rate given the constraints such as inadequate funding and lack of supporting legislation, I think they did a good job. I am sure that as we have been reading in the media and social media, you would hear of stories of staff resigning simply because of inadequate living wages, etcetera. Witnesses have been intimidated, however, the public and myself do call on government to expedite the enactment of the two critical Bills: Witness Protection Bill that seeks to establish legislation for the protection of witnesses and the Public Interest Disclosure or Protection of Whistleblowers that protects individuals who voluntarily come forward in order to give information regarding illicit and corrupt activities within organisations or companies of their employ. I do say urgently because this is the supporting legislation that will facilitate and even further the success rate that I have made reference to. These Bills are important in the fight against corruption as they will improve public confidence in the fight against corruption.
Sometimes witnesses have been intimidated in high profile cases, and if I am to quote Commissioner Makamure who at one time, was a facilitator in Gweru about a year ago, on the issue of whistleblowers of witnesses being intimidated to an extent that they tend to be hostile when they come to court to give evidence or to testify. This was quoted in an online article by The Chronicle, and if I am to give evidence of the source, it was the Chronicle website co-zwcdnam, which means it was in the morning when it was recorded by The Chronicle and it stated that, and I quote Commissioner Makamure’s words: “ZACC was pushing for whistle-blower protection law because a lot of victimisation for whistleblowers has been rampant. Witnesses turning hostile to the prejudice of successful prosecution of mostly high profile cases. Thus, enactment of whistle-blower and witnesses’ protection law will have provision for stiff penalties for victimisation of whistle blowers and witnesses in criminal cases”.
The introduction of the National Anti-Corruption Strategy that was subsequently launched by His Excellency the President, Cde E. D
Mnangagwa on July 11, 2020 led to ZACC’s conception of the Integrity
Committees in State Enterprises and one of the first such State
Enterprise to implement such a Committee is ZINARA. Integrity Committees in this sense is another strategy meant to fight corruption in parastatals. Integrity Committees are another strategy meant to actually fight corruption in parastatals. Integrity committees are intended to spearhead prevention of corruption and they are rather proactive than being reactive when dealing with corruption in organisations. These integrity committees have been devised to be part of the organisational structures and whistle-blow corrupt related activities as they take place in an organisation.
I then suggest through you Mr. President, that these integrity committees should be mandatory in all Government institutions, including the private sector organisations. It should not be a question of choosing wanting to be or wanting to set up an integrity committee in an organisation but it should be mandatory because this is a war against corruption. In my view, I would recommend that it should be mandatory.
Mr. President, I need to give examples. Hospitals, clinics and local authorities just to mention a few, we have heard of all sorts of corrupt activities that are taking place. Therefore, l may I use the word ‘adamant’, that these integrity committees have to be mandatory, perhaps it could be another form or way to nip this corruption in the bud.
As I earlier on raised a question with the Minister of Health, Hon. Mombeshora, I cited Sakubva Hospital in Mutare where expectant mothers are having to deliver through caesarian section even though they could have delivered through normal delivery without having to be opened in order to bring out the baby. Because of corruption or alleged corruption, until it is proven by some nurses who demand payment as a pretense to facilitate availability of a doctor, expectant mothers end up paying exorbitant fees directly to nurses and no receipts are issued for such fees that would have been paid.
Further to that, it is also alleged that there are now more caesarian section deliveries at this particular hospital that I have mentioned with 13 – 15 sections taking place in a day which never used to happen before. As I said earlier on, it requires some investigation in order to actually ascertain whether this is happening. As alluded to earlier on, where there is smoke there is fire.
What pains me more is the fact that it is the poor pregnant woman who suffers in these corrupt activities because the poor woman cannot afford to go and deliver in private hospitals. So, it is more of the poor who are being exploited until perhaps she is left with nothing because she is already poor. Hence, I urge the Minister of Health to institute some investigations at this particular hospital in order to establish the truth of what is happening at the hospital.
I would not have done myself a service if I go or conclude this debate without mentioning the civil servants. We all know civil servants cannot also come out clean in terms of corruption. Why am I convicted to say that? We know they are not earning more than say RTG$200 000.00. If you convert that to USD at about $6 000, that is about USD32.00. Then you ask yourself how then is the civil servant managing to pay rent, school fees, transport costs and cater for children going to school and so forth; obviously in my own thinking and visioning that kind of a situation, he must be engaging in some kind of corrupt activities and hustling.
The moment you leave your jacket on the chair and you go and hustle, to me that is already corruption because you are here from day one to day thirty receiving a salary. So, if you take off your jacket, put it on a chair, I come from Chiredzi and have an issue to do with my liquor licence that I want to renew but when I get in the office, what I see is the jacket because you have gone to do your hustling in order to make ends meet. To me, that is corruption. I do not support it but this is what is happening.
To this end, I call upon all of us in Zimbabwe; leadership and the common person that it should be our responsibility to deal with corruption and end corruption. It is a war that we need to deal with or fight in order to end it and it requires all of us.
As I conclude, corruption affects the whole economy and thus public service delivery is compromised. As I have given as an example, hospitals do not have adequate medicines. Toilets are leaking and not being repaired, no bedding, we do not have good roads and clean water, refuse is not being collected by local authorities. Salaries and wages are not a living wage that is born out of corruption. Even the collection of taxes which should be the source of revenue that should be brought back and ensure that there is service or adequate service delivery and also the salaries and wages cannot be collected all because of corruption.
My conclusion on that is to say, corruption takes everybody and it should take leadership and the common person that we should deal with because it affects all of us. I can give examples, we now have the terms ‘mbingas’, driving luxurious vehicles but there is no traceable business that I will be running. There is no traceable record of the taxes that I would have submitted with the taxman. This encourages others to also say I also want to be like a mbinga and the story goes on like that Mr. President. Hence, it must take all of our leadership and the common person to deal with corruption to stop these activities, share the cake equally and do what we are expected to do as citizens to pay our dues.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Your time
has expired.
HON. SEN. ZINDI: I was about to finish Mr. President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I will give
you a few seconds to finish, and I repeat a few seconds.
HON. SEN. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. President, as I conclude, I want to emphasise that the lifestyle audit, as a means, can also deal with corruption. Should it be institutionalised to both public and private sectors, the whole society must be accountable, especially the group that
I have referred to as mbingas.
In conclusion, I make the following recommendation: Urgent enactment of the two Bills, the Witness Protection Bill that seeks to establish legislation for the protection of witnesses and whistleblowers. integrity committees in all public and private institutions. Lifestyle audits should be mandatory in public and private institutions including individuals. There should be adequate remuneration for ZACC so that members of staff are not prone to bribes and also enable the institution to discharge its responsibilities without financial constraints. Workers should earn a living wage. Introducing anti-corruption subject in the school curriculum from ECD to tertiary institutions. Finally, the churches should also play a role in preaching the word that we should deal with and kill corruption. I thank you Mr. President.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR HARARE (HON. SEN.
TAWENGWA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 24th October, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY FOR
THE YEAR 2022
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the National Prosecuting Authority for the year 2022.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR HARARE (HON. SEN.
TAWENGWA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 24th October, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR HARARE (HON. SEN. TAWENGWA), the Senate adjourned at a Quarter past
Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 7th November, 2023.