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SENATE HANSARD 22 March 2017 26-41


Wednesday, 22nd March, 2017

The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.






THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:  I have to inform the House that I have received the ZEP-REP (Membership of Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement) Bill [H. B. 9, 2016] from the National





AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on the Order Paper be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.




Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the

State of the Nation Address.

Question again proposed.


move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.



Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

Question again proposed.


move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.




Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. GOTO: Thank you Madam President. I rise to make my contribution on the motion raised by Hon Sen. Mawire seconded Hon. Sen. Machingaifa.  This is a very pertinent motion and it is not for clowning or any other but it has to do with pets and other domesticated animals.  Let me give an example, if you have pet dogs in your family you should love them just as you love your family because the dogs are a source of security for you.  When the dogs are under-fed and not protected, they roam into the streets and are exposed to the dangers of the streets.

I bet you, the dogs have an understanding just like a human being; even if you call it, it will come to you.

We have some people who do not love their domestic animals.  When they feed them, they throw food at them and they usually call them using a derogatory term like ‘pfutseki’ and yet we are supposed to love them so that they obey you.

We have some people who love animals like cattle because they use them for draught power.  When there is starvation, they can be sold and one can have cash.  There are some people who are very cruel despite all these services that these animals give.  The cattle are left in the cattle pen until it is noon and under scotching heat.  This is real cruelty to animals.

In some cases, the cattle stray on the roads and this causes accidents.  Human beings and properties are destroyed.  Government had erected fences along the roads so that animals will be protected but human beings stole that fence for their personal use.  Bins that were put along the roads on lay bys were also taken and used for domestic use.

Let us take care of our animals because they love you and so should you.

Animals are our source of wealth.

If you are bitten by a stray dog, it may have rabies and some people will say no, we are well, we do not want to go for rabies treatment.  As time goes on, that person will start behaving like somebody who is rabid.  I remember a certain case where one man was bitten by a dog.  Health care givers had to follow him up to his homestead but he had gone away yet this was for his own safety.

I remember another case where there was a neighbour who had many dogs.  These dogs were used for hunting.  When these dogs were not taken to the bush for hunting, they would attack people.  In this instance, they attacked a lady and she was gravely mauled.  We should be aware that these pets need to be taken care of.  We need to pay the taxes for them and also protect them.

People should be given rules and regulations to be protected.  Dogs should only be released in the evening so that they protect you and give you the security yet we have some heartless people who do not feed their dogs. They would prefer feeding them on left-overs.

Cattle should be given extra feed like salt and other fodder.  Even when they are in the fields, in the evening they will come back home because they know they are well fed on fodder and salt.

A donkey is a very stubborn animal.  It will go into the street and lie down despite the queuing cars which may want to pass, it remains on the road. We should take care of our animals because when we have these animals; when we slaughter them, we enjoy the offals.

I support this motion because it encourages us to take care of our domestic animals. I thank you Mr. President.

+HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I thank you Madam President for

giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Mawire and seconded by Hon. Sen. Machingaifa.

It may look as if it is trivial but it is very important. A stray animal is an animal which has no owner and moves everywhere without anyone looking after it properly.

I will specifically talk about cats in the urban areas. You find that in urban areas, cats are not being looked after.  When you drive in town, cats may pass through your vehicle and you think it is a stone.  You move off the road and your car may be damaged.  Cats should be looked after by the owners.

These stray cattle or beasts on highways or in town; for example in Gwanda where I come from, cattle have killed people through road carnage.  They go to the urban centres and eat vegetables in the gardens.  The council has proposed that there should be a law to cater for these stray beasts.  Ten dollars has been set as fine to the owner of a beast if it is found grazing by the road side and $10 for a beast that is found lying by the road side at night.  The situation will improve since people get deterred by that.

It is better that there be $10 fines if beasts are found day by day on the road side and $20 for a beast that is found straying at night.  I am in agreement with this because it is a good decision.  This should apply throughout Zimbabwe so that everyone who uses the road is safeguarded.

Other Hon. Senators have contributed here about dogs that wherever you would have taken it, you should be able to take care of it.  Some steal dogs and fail to look after it as they would love to.  It is important indeed that through the law, the dogs should be properly looked after and see to it that they are well fed.  Dogs and cats should be properly fed so that they do not stray.

With these words, I support this important motion that we should look after our animals properly.  I thank you.

*HON.  SEN. MASHAVAKURE:  Thank you Madam President

for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this motion.   The issue of not taking care of domestic animals properly leaves a lot to be desired because one can lose all the animals. We need to be very careful in whatever we do because in some instances, we have animals like the jackals which may eat and injure our animals.  We also have some diseases which are spread by these wild animals, so they should not be allowed to share space with these wild animals; we should separate these animals.  Therefore, we should be careful about wild animals mixing with domestic animals.

My fellow parliamentarians talked about the dogs because there are so many stray dogs.  In my case as somebody who is visually impaired, I may not be able to see these dogs.  At times, they may feel like attacking you.  I move around with white walking stick and even if you are to hit that dog with it, that may not really scare it away.  We are appealing to you, that as people living with disability, please protect us from your domestic animals.  You need to take care of them so that they do not victimize people living with disability.  This also includes people who are on wheelchairs.  They are terrorized by these stray dogs.

We do have some dog owners who prefer to have vicious dogs and they feed them with mustard which makes them be very vicious.  Unfortunately, when a dog has been given mustard, it really feels it has to bite something so that it may be vicious like what the owner wants it to be.  If you are in the rural areas, you may take the dog for a hunt and it may ease the viciousness.  However, if you are in the city, why should you give your dog that mustard?  We are calling for stiffer penalties for people who would have let their dog stray and bite or injure other people.

We have some people who are considerate who enclose their dogs which are vicious during the day but at night they open up so that the dogs may provide security.  Unfortunately, some of these dogs end up going into the neighbourhood and start tearing dustbins apart, throwing dirt all over the place.  I am saying, we need to fence off our areas so that when we have these dogs and we release them at night, they will not go and cause havoc and harass our neighbours.

I am also pleading with local authorities that they should be faced by regulations that they establish veterinary departments which will go around their locality and impound any stray animals that are found in those areas.  The owner of that stray animal will have to pay a fine for the release of the dog.  We need to look at the functions of the society for the prevention of cruelty to animals.  Why is the SPCA not operating as it was operating in the past?  I remember along Seke Road, my aide read some place saying this is the place where there is the SPCA.  Is it not functioning properly because of the sanctions imposed on us?  We need to put our heads together as the Veterinary department and society for the prevention of cruelty to animals because we know there may be diseases and there may be damage to property and injury to individuals.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. BHOBHO:  Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon.

Sen. Mawire, seconded by Hon. Sen. Machingaifa.  This is a very important motion because it has a lot to do with our living.  I know we have a law which is there to protect these domestic animals.  Some of these rules regarding the keeping of pets in our locations have some regulations which say you should not keep these pets if you do not have the correct security fence.  It also limits the number of animals you may keep within a perimeter depending on the size.  We also have some people who have started keeping free range chickens.  These chickens are so active that they can fly into somebody’s perimeter fence and cause havoc.  People should build fowl runs and as for the dogs, they should get kennels where they can lock them and only open at night.

It is important that when you are keeping dogs, you should clean your yard because the dogs would have messed up.  Some time back, when I was working in the health department, in one of these local authorities there was a certain family which was keeping pigs which were up to ten.  I am saying if you have these dogs, they should be vaccinated and kept properly.  However, the local authorities are saying they no longer have funds allocated for the vaccination of these dogs.  If the dogs are not vaccinated, when they bite an individual, they cause them to suffer from rabies and some people may die.  We now have people who are keeping dogs in local authority areas, especially in high density areas and say when time is ripe, they will take them to areas where the dogs are allowed such as rural areas or plots.

In the rural areas, if your animal goes astray and if it is run down or causes an accident, the owner of that beast is the one who is going to be penalized and they will pay a fine because that stray animal will have caused loss of lives or damage to property.  What I have noticed is that, when cattle stray into the roads and are run over, the owners of these beasts do not collect them because they fear that they will be penalized and made to pay some fine.  What is happening is that these animals end up rotting and this causes diseases because we have maggots settling in on that place.  I am advising villagers who are near the roads that if they see these stray animals which would have been hit by cars, I am begging you, whether it is a dog, goat, cow or pig, please just burry it because it would be for your own good.

We are calling for the enforcement of the rules and regulations regarding these stray dogs. Some people who have been bitten by these stray animals; even donkeys are now biting people, the medication for such bites is very expensive and few people can afford them and consequently they end up dying or some of them become maimed or disabled. If it is possible may we please establish a fund which will be used for the treatment of people who have been bitten by these stray animals?

I remember when the SPCA was working properly; the people would go to the SPCA and collect those stray dogs which would have been captured by the SPCA. I know these rules and regulations are still in existence but they are not being enforced and they should be enforced. Most people stay in high density areas where there is a high volume of people and as such, infectious diseases tend to spread easily.  As a result, even when we have these animals - they will definitely infect if we let them go astray. These high density homes were created for the workers by our colonizers who would go and live in low density areas and on farms. What is happening now is that one homestead is so overcrowded because there so many families in that one house and there are so many dogs which will be staying in that area and as a result there is going to be some infection.

I also realise that because of such places which are so crowded and filthy, some people do not welcome visitors. When you visit them they will come to the gate and entertain you outside the gate because they would not want you to see the filth in which they live. I want to thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution.

*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion moved by Hon. Sen. Mawire and seconded by Hon. Sen. Machingaifa.  When the two Senators moved this motion initially, I was surprised and I even doubted their sanity and said what a motion. When Hon. Senators started debating, it started dawning on me that this was an essential motion.

I am supporting people who are saying the regulations regarding the welfare of these animals are in place but are not being enforced. I am a farmer in Macheke and when I went to my place in the evening I saw an animal which was in my field and as I was driving out of the field what I saw was very scary because it had a big wound on its hindquarters which had maggots. I was told that the wound on the animal was caused when the owners were treating the blackleg. What they did is that they rubbed the hot iron on its skin and it was injured. What surprised me is that are these people so poor that they could not afford a dollar to treat their cattle.

May I also add that these people who are so careless do not respond positively to calls by the Veterinary Department and SPCA to bring cattle for vaccination. I am surprised, is it because we are independent we now do as we want. We do not care about our animals and pets. Really, my whole shivered when I looked at that animal which was in pain. I asked myself, ‘do I take the legal route and report these perpetrators of such a heinous crime to the police’. In the long run I ended up saying, ‘well this is not my baby’.

I also notice that those people who keep goats, they tie the goats using a rope to on one place regardless of the inclement weather. Come rain or sunshine, that goat will still be tied to that place. This is very cruel. This is very bad. This is very diabolic. I grew up in the rural areas and my father had a gun. What my father would do was if there was a stray animal he would shoot it, especially these pigs. Nobody would come and lay the blame on my father because they knew that the regulations were there to protect him. Pigs should not be left to roam around freely. As of now we see pigs all over the place squeaking, rolling in the mud and making all the noises, is this independence? Surely we are abusing our independence. This is a problem on our hands and therefore we should take care of our animals. It was really painful what I witnessed.

HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.


Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.




Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the

Electoral Act to the Constitution.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.


Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.




Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the SADC

Model Law on eradicating Child Marriages.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for moving

this motion so that we can prevent early marriages, especially to the young men and young women. When I look at it, when these people have been married off, they are young and immature. They are not aware of their responsibilities. As for the girls, they may not even be able to know that they are supposed to prepare for the husband who will be coming from work. At times you find these girls playing Hula Hoop or some other games with young people of her age. These young girls are married off to adult males who are mature and instead of teaching this young girl how to become a proper housewife, they torment them.

We have also realised that these unashamed elderly men, when they are widowed or divorced, instead of marrying somebody of their age, they go to the youngsters because they can control them and cannot be challenged by them. This is very painful. I am saying to the men folk, when you are divorced or widowed, please go and look for women of your age, especially the widowed or divorced like you because you are depriving young men of marrying girls of their age.

As this august House, we should enact a law to set down the proper age for marriage. I have noticed that in some instances, you meet this old man moving with this little girl and you say hello my daughter when she is actually the wife to that man. Whatever is planned by that man, he does it without consultation because he knows that this is a young girl and she knows nothing about life because she is still immature. To the sugar daddies, I say please behave.

I think since we now have these elderly men marrying young girls, we now have a case of sugar mummies. There are young men who are marrying elderly women. They will approach and propose love to a woman of 50 or even up to 67 years, and they will tell you that age is nothing but just a number. Why is this happening, because elderly men have taken up the young girls? Please, if you are widowed or divorced and you go and marry a young girl who is the same age as your last child, your children have problems in respecting that step mother because she is younger than them. When you get into such a home, you notice that it is a sorry sight and they live a pathetic life.

We need to enact a law which will protect these children. I think what is causing these early marriages is because of poverty which makes people marry off these young girls. When the girls are married off to these adult males, they are abused. Whatever these young girls are told to do in the homes, they are simply yes people because they cannot say no because they are immature. At times they may be aware of the fact that they are being abused but they have nowhere to report because they were married off since their parents wanted to be taken care of. Men please marry people of your age. We have widows and spinsters of your age who want to be married and are waiting for you. Please marry them.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.



Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Mr. President. I wish to also thank the mover and seconder of the motion. Mr. President, the depth, philosophical nature and the capturing of the Zimbabwean society in the pledge is commendable. I also wish to thank Minister Dokora for the originality in which this is constructed. Therefore, my unequivocal support for the National School Pledge is anchored on its inclusivity to all aspects of the Zimbabwean society. It is very inclusive.

Mr. President, you take religion; the pledge is very inclusive across the board. On religion it does not actually mention of any faith; Christianity, Islam, Judaism or our African religions, it simply mentions that religion should be respected. We are a religious nation, not a

Christian nation and that is a subject for another debate.

On patriotism, it is again very inclusive. Read it, it is brilliant. It is fantastically constructed.  It addresses hard work - that is exactly what we should all do. Let us not spend all our energy looking at other people’s hard work or doings and say, okay this region is more disadvantaged because of so and so forth.  Let us work hard. We pledge to work hard. That is another score. Patriotism, again as I have said, It appeals to our school children to grow up with a culture of patriotism.  Values of the liberation struggle, all levels and liberations struggles are inclusive. I am talking about inclusiveness here. All of the liberation struggles  right from the First Chimurenga, the Ndebele uprising which the whites called the rebellion when people wanted their freedom right to the Third Chimurenga to our current Economic Chimurenga, evidenced by the introduction of the command agriculture. Mr.

President, I rest my case on the inclusivity of the Pledge, brilliant staff. I thank you.

HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, thank you. First of all, I would like to thank the mover of the motion. She has given us an opportunity Mr. President, to exercise our intellectual and empirical capabilities in terms of examining the subject at hand.

Let me start off by saying I personally have no quarrel with the idea, principle, concept and philosophy of a national pledge in any nation. It defines where you are going, your values and what you are enthusiastic about. I know it is actually very interesting that I am making my response to the National Pledge soon after the observations made by Hon. Sen. Musaka. People have a different way of seeing and conceptualising things. I have already underlined my support for the principle, philosophy and the concept.

Let me start off and say, I sat in this House and felt quite bad when the issue of balancing history was raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo, I felt that it was below our dignity to respond in an emotive way when somebody asks for history to be balanced. On that issue, I rest my case and I would prefer that in future, Hon. Senators have a balanced mind in terms of the regions that constitute this nationality.

I move on Mr. President and say that in my opinion, while I believe in the principle, concept and philosophy, I also feel that a national pledge must be anchored on certain principles and values. For me, those principles upon which it must be anchored must include total national happiness, belief in our current situation, excitement about our current situation and environment. My example says when a young man gets married to a young lady, the day they tie the knot, they make a pledge, to say till death do us part. It is an expression of excitement and anticipation.

A long time ago, when two virgins married, they all did not know what was across the road. That excitement made them make the pledge. What I ask is, have we properly or are we properly anchoring our national pledge? Regrettably for me, we did not show the unity of purpose that we could have as a nation. The capacity of our educated persons and the traditional African value system that should carry this nation does not reveal itself in today’s Zimbabwe.

I also ask the question, are we doing our best to achieve equity and justice in this land? My answer is, regrettably we are not. Are we doing our best to finalise the values that we fought for, that we are so greatly enthusiastic about the 18th April 1980? My answer again is no. The 18th of April is coming and that enthusiasm we had about our independence and that desire for achievement is not there. I almost left school to come back to Zimbabwe in order to be party to that new situation. Luckily, I was persuaded otherwise. The question I am asking is do we still have that enthusiasm about this nation? My answer is no.

So, I am saying while the concept, the idea and the philosophy of us having a national pledge is acceptable to me, we need to anchor our pledge properly. Children of today are different from our age. I always talk about how stupid we were when we were asked to go and look for a cane to come and cane you and you religiously went and picked it up and gave it to your father who gave you a thorough hiding. They do not do that today. If you ask them to go and look for that thing, they do not come back.

Similarly, let us not assume. I was asked by one young child that you Parliamentarians are talking about the national pledge, how about the dichotomy that we see about what we should pledge to and what obtains? I must confess Mr. President that I was unable to answer a Grade 5 child convincingly because I think there is a chasm between what we should be anchoring our pledge on and what we are doing as the leaders in this country.

My second and last worry is the disposition of the persons that are supposed to propel this pledge forward. One of the earliest things when the pledge came in, I am not an educationist. I sent an enquiry to a number of people and said, give me your response about the national pledge. How enthusiastic is it as a tool to assist us drive it to realisation? The majority of the people who responded to that question indicated to me that they are not keen. They do not believe in what the national pledge says largely because there is a difference between the practicality in Zimbabwe and what they are supposed to teach the children. What happens in a situation like that where the implementer is hesitant about the programme to be implemented?

There are chances that the programme may not be as successful as it should be. Mr. President, I think it is important for us and I concede that one of the Hon. Senators stood up and said that the national pledge has not been cast in stone, it can be revisited. Before we revisit the national pledge, let us examine ourselves as a nation and a leadership, refocus our efforts into building this nation. I am very jealousy about this nation. I am extremely jealousy if you have noticed. It pains me to see our independence being lost particularly if you count the number of lives that were lost in order to recreate this nation.

I therefore suggest that we do a serious visitation of our behaviour and our doings on the ground and deal severely with things like corruption in this nation, and then we bring our pledge to the generation that has to be taught the values that coincide with our actual behaviour on the ground. Mr. President, I want once again to thank the mover of the motion largely because this motion has given us an opportunity to exercise intellectual ability and also to compare the obtaining empiricism against theoretical.  I thank you Mr. President.

*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President for

giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on the national pledge. This motion was raised by Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi supporting the idea by Hon. Minister Dokora responsible for Primary and Secondary Education regarding the national school pledge for school children. The whole idea behind the introduction of this pledge is to inculcate the values of patriotism in our youngsters.

I remember when we were growing up, especially my age mates, those who grew up in Rhodesia, we used to make a pledge and we would say ‘God save our gracious Queen’. We went a step further. We had boys who had enrolled into boy scouts and girls who joined the girl guides. All these were colonial mentality orientations. It is very important that children should know their background. They should know their history. We know when the colonialists were doing this, they used to inculcate the values of patriotism and also they would teach the superiority complex in their children and they would take two dols, a black and a white doll then they will ask the children which one they want to be friends with.  The children will pick the white doll.  This inculcated the values of apartheid and segregation amongst the children.

I would like to say thank you to Hon. Minister Dokora.

I have also noticed that when musicians are compiling their music, they look for ways to please people with their songs.  When the songs are first released, people may not enjoy them much but with time, they will embrace the song and take it like a national anthem.  So, I am also saying that this national pledge is very important because when people were asked to come up with songs for the national anthem, some wrote and the late Professor Mutsvairo was the winner. This is similar to the national pledge. It is very important as it inculcates the values of patriotism.  If some of you watched the President on his visit to Mauritius on the African Economy meeting, the people were asked to dress in their national attire.  Our one and only President, Cde. R. G

Mugabe put on a Cuban shirt while most of the other Presidents ended up putting on suits and ties which was contrary to what had been called for.  That is why I am saying that we are so colonized that we believe being smart is putting on a tie and jacket, hence I am calling for inculcation of patriotic values amongst our children to enable them to know where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going.

Thank you Mr. President.

HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.




Eighth Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on violence that has become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.

Question again proposed.

+HON. SEN. NDHLOVU:  Thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate this motion.  Hon. Senators have debated here, so I will just debate briefly on what I know about violence amongst our people.  I will start with domestic violence.  You will find that if husband and wife have differences, they fight in the presence of their children who then tend to think it is the normal thing to do yet it should not be like that.  When husbands and wives have differences, they should find time to talk about the issue in the absence of their children.

Another thing which is a problem is a divorced father who marries another wife so she can look after his children.  This other woman will not look after the children as expected but take them as animals, yet she is the one who will have come to disturb the children who were living peacefully with their father.  Children cannot defend themselves in such a situation.  What is common is that the woman will pretend to be good when the husband is around but when he goes away, the children will be abused.  Sometimes they do not even go to school and they are not given food to an extent that they end up being fed by next door neighbours.  As an august House, how can we handle that?  We, women are evil when we get into such a set-up.  Men also have their weakness of not looking after their children.  When a child tells the father that this is what is going on, he does not believe the child and ends up beating up the child for lying against his wife.  How do we handle such a situation?  I am pained by people who abuse defenceless children.  People should fight with those who can fight back and not children who cannot defend themselves.

The other form of violence is between husband and wife.  There are men who are violent and beat up their wives.  I have a video of something which happened.  This young man used to beat up his wife until she fled the abuse.  However, this man approached this woman at her work place and lied to the employer that the wife had left behind a young child who was not feeling well.  They went home and discussed their issue and talked of reconciliation but on their way to collect the wife’s property – it is there in the video – the young man beheaded the woman and hanged himself.  Prior to that, he had talked to his parents and told them that he was going to kill himself because he had killed his wife and they would find him at such a place.  Indeed, they were both found there – dead.  You wonder why the woman was no longer interested in that marriage yet the man was trying to force her to come back, resulting in him killing the woman.  It is very difficult when people are dead to know who exactly is to blame.  The parent of the woman loses because the man willingly wanted to kill himself.  So let us look at this issue and try to address these matters when we engage with our constituents.   If there are differences, people should communicate and if they are not agreeable, they should go their separate ways.

Then on political violence, I will not say much because you are aware of what is obtaining.  I am requesting that when we are addressing our people in meetings, we should tell our youths whom we normally use that they should stay away from violence.  Sometimes they are not sent to perpetrate violence, they start that violence on their own.  That is not good at all.  It is not good for our politics.

Politics is good when there is fair competition.  It is like when you are proposing love; a woman can be proposed to by two people but will only agree to one proposal. That is what should be done even in politics.  We should discuss and tell each other that it is not good at all to be violent because you want a position.  When I want a position, I use another person’s child to achieve my objectives.  I will not use my child because I am aware that my child may be injured.  Let us take heed that violence does not build our economy.  I thank you.

+HON. SEN. NYATHI:  Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate.  I would like to talk about violence.  Violence has been debated here and it is being caused by us Zimbabweans.

We, the adults are the ones who cause this violence.  I have observed that violence is now at peak here in Zimbabwe. It is ruling now.  In our homes, people are facing problems. A lot of things are happening and some of the things are not said in the communal areas in various districts and constituencies.

Violence is not perpetrated by an ordinary person; it is perpetrated by someone who is aware of what he is doing; a person with money and position.  A person without money will not afford to cause violence because he has nothing.  We, who are here, are the perpetrators of violence.  We debate religiously here but when we are out there at our places, we engage in these acts.  In Shona, they say ‘Chakafukidza dzimba matenga’, there are a lot of things that we do.

I am saying this because last week at Cross Dete where I come from, a young disabled man died at his homestead. This happened in a beer hall where a certain man tried to put some poison in other people’s beer.  This young man gave people some signals because he had seen that the man wanted to do something bad.  That man followed this young disabled man to his home and axed him to death. The young man died and was buried on Saturday.  When the case was reported, the man refused that he had tried to put poison in other people’s beer.

That is not the only incident.  In Mabale and Cross Dete, a lot of things are happening.  Children are being killed. My aunt’s child was killed and there is no suspect at all but the police are there and we the leaders are also there.  We know what the law says but we are doing nothing about it.  How do we view our law if we allow these things to happen when we are there?  Is this the independence; killing each other killing a disabled person who had noticed that someone wanted to commit a crime?

You find that the person who commits such a crime will be picked by the police and after two days, he will be back.  What would deter people to be afraid of perpetrating violence if nothing is done?  We will continue debating here but we are not even implementing the law.  If someone is being accused of a crime, that person should be given a deterrent punishment so that others will not commit the same crime.

We come here to make laws, we debate on a daily basis trying to make laws but the laws are not being implemented in Zimbabwe.  It is said that no one is above the law but in Zimbabwe, we are above the law because we are dining with a lot of perpetrators.

Last month, a man killed a child.  I asked what action was taken on that man who had done that but I heard that nothing was done and he was walking on the streets.  That is why I am saying that an ordinary person cannot perpetrate violence.  It is us who debate here.  We are hypocrites.  You find me instructing young people to do certain things that are derogatory and this results in violence.

What does honourable mean? It means something but we are not behaving honourably.  When we are out there, we are animals – lions; we do as we please.  We forget what we pretend to do here as honourables.  People call us honourables but we are committing crime. It is painful, Mr. President.  It is difficult out there; women are facing problems at home.  I have observed that in Zimbabwe, we always debate and debate.  The chiefs no longer have their powers.  When we were growing up, the chiefs had power.  They would do a lot of things and people would be afraid.  The chief is the custodian of our traditions.  When I was in grade 3, I learnt about all the chiefs in the country and I knew them.  Right now, if you approach school children and ask who the chief of Mashonaland Central is, they do not know but we could recite them by their names. Zimunhu, Ngorima, we would recite them, even us who did not know them.  All that is no longer there.  Today, there is a teacher at Mekandama and there was a problem. I approached the teacher.  I asked the teacher, where do you come from and the teacher said I come from Shurugwi and they mentioned the place.  I asked the teacher who their MP was and the teacher said, I do not know my MP.

A teacher who does not know the MP from his area; is that proper?  What kind of teaching does he give to the children when he does not know his MP?  That means even the headman or chief is not known.

What would he teach then?

Let us look into it, when we debate here, we must not be hypocrites; let us say the truth.  As we debate people will be listening.  I heard an Hon. Member here saying people ask about things we debate here.  They are aware of what is going on.  Yes, there is a tug of war here when we are one nation, a nation we fought for from east to west.

It is as though this country was fought for by one side.  This country was fought for by everyone.  We fought for this country all of us.

As I am, I will not perpetrate violence.  I am in pain because my uncle was killed for supporting a certain party.  He was discharged from the hospital with a big wound on his head.  He said to me, do not ever fall in love with a person of this language because he was in pain.  He said he heard the people saying let him be killed but he woke up.  After a month, my uncle passed on.  It was being done by us, people with money.  Let us do what is proper.  Let us not pretend or be hypocrites as adults so that we can be exemplary to our children that when they grow up they should know what to do.  What will they do if at all we kill each other with axes and spears?  Mr. President Sir, it is a painful thing.  This is our country and we should put things in order.  As elected MPs, we should legislate for the proper running of the country. With those few words I thank you.

HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MAKORE:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.



Ninth Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA:  Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution.  The proposal of this motion is to increase the population and that people should give birth to more children.  When we look at the support given by NonGovernmental Organisations who are calling for small families, that support should now be for large families.  Hence, I thank you Hon.

Members for bringing up this motion.

Let me confess. I was very much touched when I heard about this motion.  What pains me is that I am now beyond the child bearing age, having given birth to very few children.  I gave birth to three children and yet the motion is calling for a minimum number of eight children.  My reproductive system was disturbed because I went to the war of liberation.  When this motion was introduced by Hon. Sen. Musaka, I thought maybe it was just a way of whiling up time but I later realised that the Hon. Member was not talking about the multiplicity of the family unit but Zimbabwe as a whole.  If we do not multiply, we run the danger of having foreigners coming into the country and multiplying more than us.  The problem is, if we let the foreigners multiply more than us, we may end up being swallowed and even the powers being taken away from us.

When we talk about the multiplicity of the family, we are not talking about child spacing which is so poor that you give birth annually.  We are saying, the children should be properly spaced in such a way that the family is able to be fed properly and be given proper education.

Thank you Hon. Member for this motion because you also talked about the defence of this country. I was mesmerized saying, are we talking about the defence as in soldiers or the generation gap.  We have a time whereby if we miss some children because of this family planning, we may end up having no soldiers because nobody would take up the job of the soldier to protect the country.  Hon. Members, we come to

Parliament through elections and the sovereignty of the country is going to be protected by giving birth to more children who are going to carry out the flame of Zimbabwe.  I am saying, to the child bearing men and women, please give birth to the required number.

When we look at our country and we will look at the space which we have, we find that we still have space to construct our houses as we want.  We even have some open spaces to the extent of saying the animals of Zimbabwe are occupying another space in our game reserves.  This shows that we have a lot of space which we can occupy for the development of the country and I know we should multiply because Zimbabwe is a land of milk and honey, full of minerals - about 60 different types of minerals in the country. If we exploit these minerals and extract them using sustainable methods, we can all survive. Even the future generations may survive on these natural resources which are abundant in Zimbabwe. We have abundant space in this country, unlike in other countries where they are building skyscrapers because they are running short of space. Zimbabwe still has enough space.

What we want is to fully utilise the natural resources which we have for the sake of the future generations because if we exploit them as if there is no tomorrow, it is a disservice to future generations. Talking about giving birth, we need to have good health care centres with mothers waiting shelters. Maternity hospitals should be nearer to the people so that the pregnant women do not travel long distances looking for maternity services.

I remember there was a time when one of my cousins died during her gestation period. Both the mother and the baby died because the child was so big that during that gestation period the child disturbed the health of the mother and they both died. When the clinics are nearby, the women will go to those clinics and receive counselling on how they can go through that period. I am also calling for the maternity leave to be extended to pregnant mothers in both the private and public sectors. On the issue of paying maternity fees, my wish is that we should enact a law which prohibits the payment of maternity fees because the women will be on national service, hence that should be free of charge.

We have BEAM in our country which pays school fees for vulnerable children and this fund should be expanded to take care of these children so that when they go to school, the Government will still be able to pay for them. I am pleading with the child bearing age that they should give birth to children and Zimbabweans should multiply. I thank you.

*HON. SEN. JUBA: I would like to add a few words to this motion. I know that we are speaking as if we are singing. In Ndebele they say that there is no one who can dance and clap for themselves at the same time. I have had an instance whereby my cousin who was pregnant, went to maternity clinic and she was told that she still has some time to go and therefore she must come later. She was told to bring some maternity fee of $15. She went for the injection and when the injection was administered on that pregnant cousin of mine she was told that she should pay another $20 so that she would go for a scan. These people had no money and I had to pay for them. When she had a scan, the next thing is that they were calling for another $7. This really disturbed me to the point where I wanted to interfere but I did not because I could have said something which I would regret.

What surprised me is the way she was treated at the hospital. She was treated like a thief or law breaker and yet she was someone doing a national duty. Because she had failed to raise the required amount she was treated like a convict or a law breaker. I am appealing to health care personnel to change their attitude. In my area we have St Patrick’s hospital where we have reports of some care givers who are so relaxed.  During the ordeal of my cousin, another pregnant woman who also had come died because of negligence by the health personnel.

The other time I had gone to a health centre with my last born daughter who was pregnant. She was about to give birth and when we told them that the baby was about to come out, the nurses told her that she still had some time to go. What worried me was that if ever she was to give birth on her own, the beds in the hospitals are so high that during birth the baby can fall to the ground and die. I told the nurses on duty that whatever would have happened to my daughter, I would have taken the nurses to task and they would regret what they would have done. The nurses were busy talking about their own stories instead of taking care of the pregnant mother. This is very painful. Expecting mothers encounter a lot of problems and I am saying care givers and health institutions need to be fully supported. I thank you.

*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I want to thank you Mr. President for affording me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Musaka and his seconder for encouraging the people of Zimbabwe to bear more children so that we increase the population of our country. The mover of the motion is proposing that the minimum number of children per family be eight.

I remember last week when this motion was raised when I was in Zvishavane. We were on YA FM phone-in programme and they were saying Parliament is calling for families to give birth to eight children. The producer called for the sentiments of the people of Zvishavane regarding the number of children per family. People were fuming with anger and they were saying the first thing they face during pregnancy is the high maternity fees. The second problem that they highlighted is that  when they have given birth to a child how do they fend for the child when the economy is very poor. They were very much worried saying why should the Government be calling for people to have more children when the economy is so bad.

In my case I gave birth to four children. What really worries me is giving them day to care. I know I am better off as a Senator but there are times whereby I cannot stand the problems and expenses encountered in taking care of the needs of these children.

As stated by Hon. Sen. Juba that the maternity fees are so prohibitive in that they are so high. Some two weeks ago here in Harare, we went to attend a funeral of a lady who had died at eight month pregnancy. Despite the fact that the foetus had survived when the mother died, it later died because of the conditions was surviving in. When we talk of health, we are talking of a very important issue and when we talk of getting pregnant, this is a very difficult period in one’s life. We are saying this giving of birth is a national service. What the nation needs to do is to say anybody who is pregnant should be given free treatment. Even when giving birth, there should be no fee paid because the child who will be born is going to be an asset to Zimbabwe and will give some assistance to Zimbabwe.

I know we had an Hon. Member who talked about BEAM which he said was paying fees for people who cannot afford to pay school fees. Now, let me inform the Hon. House that BEAM does not pay fees for every child at a school, but they only select about five children at any given school to pay school fees for. In the rural areas, there are lots of problems faced by people and some of the children in these rural areas are not attending school as I speak. In some instances where some of the learners did well at A’level, I have a cousin who obtained 15 points and she wants to go to university to undertake legal studies and become a lawyer. I am begging you my fellow hon. Members, this learner is a girl who would want to go and study law at university. May we please find a way of assisting this learner?

As a country, we need to look at our resources. Are we being truthful to ourselves when we say families should give birth to eight children? How are these children going to be taken care of? Who is going to take care of their welfare because giving birth is easy but taking care of the family is a difficult problem. I am saying Hon. Sen. Musaka, thank you very much for this motion because it is giving us a chance to dig deeply into the issue of giving birth.

When we look at Zimbabweans, they are second to the Nigerians.

Why, because they are all over the world just like the Nigerians. As a

Senator, I have had the opportunity of travelling around the globe. When travelling around the world, when you see a black man seated and you may think he is a Nigerian or from some other country; you get surprised when you hear this person greeting you in Shona or Ndebele and you then know that this is a Zimbabwean. I can safely vouch and say, we have a lot of people, millions of Zimbabweans who are outside the country. What is going to happen when we give birth to more children? They will definitely go out of the country because we have unsuitable policies.

As Members of the Senate and this august House, are we being truthful to ourselves when we encourage giving birth to children at an average number of eight children per family? I think we are not being truthful to ourselves because we still have about eight million

Zimbabweans who are in the diaspora. When these people come back to

Zimbabwe, are we going to have enough resources? This is unlike in South Africa where a pregnant mother is given some incentive or allowance for being pregnant. Even if the husband or boyfriend denies paternity, the State will still pay for the upkeep of that child. Although I have said this is a good idea, but it has its own disadvantages because South African women no longer want to be married because once she gets married, she loses the Government pay out.

I am therefore calling upon this august House that we should be truthful to ourselves. I thank the mover of this motion and Hon.

President of the Senate for giving me a chance to make my contribution.

HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN.  MUMVURI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd March, 2017.





Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the Status of Children’s Homes.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you very much Mr. President.

Today I have to wind up the motion on the status of children’s homes. I would like first to thank the Committee on Gender and Development, in particular the seconder Hon. Sen. Buka. I also want to thank the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, particularly Eng. Matangaidze. I also want to thank the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services for providing information regarding their social service. My appreciation also goes to Plan International Zimbabwe who made such extensive research and finally Musasa Project.

Mr. President, the findings were based on the following objectives which I think were totally achieved. One was to identify and appreciate the challenges being faced in accommodating children at children’s homes. The second was to assess the status of children’s homes. The third was to explore legislative policy regarding children’s homes and to offer policy recommendations for improvement.

Mr. President, this debate was well debated and oversubscribed by the Hon. Senators in here. The Senators who did contribute to this debate were Hon. Sen. Moeketsi, Hon. Sen. Khumalo, Hon. Sen.

Timveos, Hon. Sen. Mabugu, Hon. Sen.  Bhobho, Hon. Sen. Goto, Hon.

Sen. Shiri, Hon. Sen. Marava, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira, Hon. Sen.

Mawire, Hon. Sen. Machingaifa, Hon. Sen. Mavhunga, Hon. Sen. Matiirira, Hon. Sen. Musaka, Hon. Sen. Chabuka, Hon. Sen. Sibanda, Hon. Sen. Ncube, Hon. Sen. Masuku and Hon. Sen. Jadagu.

They all made very positive contributions. In any case, the areas which we visited were only eight and of the eight areas out of 94 children’s homes, some even persisted that this activity must be followed and be completed in other areas which we did not visit. Let me mention those eight areas that we visited Mr. President. We visited

Matthew Rusike Children’s Home in Epworth, which people found a

little bit balanced, but at least they had their peculiar problems as well.

Even at Chirinda Children’s Home in Goromonzi, Mashonaland East, they also had their challenges of accommodation and birth certificates which we found common in all these particular areas. We also visited Chirinda Orphanage Home in Mount Selinda, which had a fountain of problems. So many problems were identified like water and even blankets, food shortages to the extent that Senators made contributions to that. This was well debated and scrutinised.  At Alpha

College Children’s Home in Masvingo town, we found that this home was particularly funded by the churches that surround it and also contributions from the Council, so much that those people were not entitled to pay water that was subscribed by the council. They also had their particular problems where they had about US$22 000 shortfalls where people who are working there are not paid at all, and are not even subscribing to NSSA.

We went to Bulawayo SOS Village Lodge. It has various challenges but that is well balanced. They have a problem where university students do not have birth certificates but at large, it sounds a little bit balanced. We also went to Midlands Children’s Home in Gweru. It shows that they have some challenges of land, but they have a problem called ‘INO’ for children above 18 years. In circumstances Mr. President, we found that those above 18 years who have not completed tertirary education seem to be having problems because they are relegated in accordance with the legal age or the majority age which is 18 years before they are fully accommodated. That is what we found in those particular areas.

We went to Mary Ward Children’s Home in Kwekwe and we also found those other challenges. This is also run by the churches and it appears a little bit balanced but with their peculiar problems. The problems of grants of US$15 per month are found common in all these institutions. At Kadoma Training Institute, it caters for young offenders, those who could have committed their crimes at the early age. We found exactly that the land could be there, but they wanted irrigation equipment and provisions of their pumps to be able to pump water irrigating in their land.

We had some response from the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services Hon. Eng. Matangaidze. The area which we wanted first was that those children’s homes should have a set standard in terms of meeting those other conditions which we believe could be fair. In his response, he said those areas have to be monitored all the time by the officials from the Ministry. In other words, we also moaned of the additional staff in these institutions like what we found in Chirinda. The people were not qualified to do their job because they seem to not have been trained to do that. They only assisted on the basis of that shortage.

In his response, he said those children of 18 years, the Ministry is advocating for a quota to be set aside for vulnerable children in institutions to access tertiary education and scholarships. This means this one was partially met because the Minister advocated that at least that would be taken care of and those that are above 18 years are going to be catered for, which is an achievement in the preset objective. The

Minister intends to pay a once off administration fee per year which is US$15 per child per registered capacity. It means to say that instead of paying them US$15 per month, a lump sum will be paid for the full year, which means to say that is a met objective by the Ministry.

If this would be translated to reality, it would be a great achievement. He also indicated that there are those other grants that can be submitted per claim like school fees, examination fees and school uniforms. These will be given or distributed per the claim submitted by these particular institutions. The Chirinda Children’s Home was found to be a little bit far worse in terms of the Senators who did bemoan that Chirinda had substandard conditions. According to the Senators, there were a lot of things mentioned by those who went there. First of all, the Minister promised that he is taking seven children out of that home and also other four young kids were returned back to their relatives and only those who are bound to write their examinations were left at Chirinda.

The good thing about it Mr. President is that currently...


SEN. TAWENGWA): Order, I am just consulting here. You are now reopening debate. I had allowed you just for five minutes because you had made your observations and you came up with your recommendations. The Minister responded to the Senate and to your Committee report. It is either you are now withdrawing your motion or you are moving for adoption.

HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President. I was only highlighting as the Chairman. I want to thank you very much. In other words, all these are substantive matters that we did investigate and of late, it appears that it is an expression of appreciation. I therefore move for the adoption of the First report of the Thematic Committee on

Gender Development on the States of Children’s Homes. Thank you very much.

Motion with leave, adopted.

On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON.

SEN. KOMICHI, the Senate adjourned at Half Past Four o’clock pm.

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