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SENATE HANSARD 24 October 2019 29-04

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 24^th October, 2019.

The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE

INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ANTI-SANCTIONS MARCH

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the

Senate that all Members of Parliament are cordially invited to participate in the anti-sanction march on Friday, 25^th October, 2019.  The march will commence from the Robert Mugabe Square and proceed to the National Sports Stadium at 0800 hours.  The bus leaves Parliament Building at 0700 hours.  Hon. Members are urged to be punctual.

CHANGES TO THEMATIC COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I also have to inform the Senate of changes to the membership of Thematic Committees where

Hon. Sen. Mupfumira has been nominated to serve on the following Committees:

• Human Rights
• Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I only have apologies  from two Ministers, Hon. Kazembe, Minister of ICT, Postal and

Courier Services and Hon. J. M. Mhlanga, Deputy Minister for Local

Government, Public Works and National Housing but there are no Ministers here.  I hope they will be coming soon.   Therefore, we have to move to the Business of the Day and revert to Question Time when the Ministers are in.

 

MOTION

REMOVAL OF ILLEGAL SANCTIONS IMPOSED ON

ZIMBABWE

      HON. SEN. MBOHWA:  I move the motion standing in my

name that this House:-

COGNISANT that the 39^th Ordinary Summit of SADC Heads of States and Government held in Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania, strongly condemned the prolonged adverse illegal economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe by the West and equivocally called for their unconditional removal;

MINDFUL that SADC has always been calling for the immediate

lifting of sanctions to facilitate the socio-economic recovery of the country leading to the resolution to declare 25^th October, 2019 as the date on which SADC Member States collectively voice their disapproval of the illegal sanctions through various activities and platforms;

DEEPLY CONCERNED with the duplicity by the West and its

allies who are masking the protracted illegal regime change agenda under the guise of targeted sanctions;

GRAVELY DISTURBED that the so-called sanctions have brought untold suffering to ordinary Zimbabweans through deindustrialisation resulting in high levels of unemployment, among many other economic challenges;

WORRIED that the crippling sanctions have affected all spheres of our economic and social services through the ever-increasing skills flight which has decimated all meaningful development in the last two decades;

NOTING with disdain the arrogant unilateralism and disrespect for the rule of law of countries that illegally imposed sanctions on Zimbabwe;

NOW, THEREFORE:-

• calls upon United States of America, the European Union and

its allies to urgently and unconditionally remove the illegal sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe at their instigation as these have resulted in horrendous suffering of the ordinary Zimbabwean citizens;

• resolves that dialogue be given chance and that the perpetrators be encouraged by the collective voice of the SADC Region to urge their governments to lift all forms of sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe;
• applauds the SADC Region for rising with one voice in support of the unconditional and immediate removal of the illegal economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe.

HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.

HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Thank you Madam President for

offering  me this opportunity to debate  on the motion on sanctions.  Madam President, according to the Cambridge dictionary, sanctions is an official order such as stopping of trade, that is taken against a country in order to make it obey international law.

I would therefore want to define again economic sanctions as  restrictive measures of an economy and sometimes forceful in nature and meant to punish the country in contravention of these international laws or norms. By referring to the international laws, the obvious fact is that the violation must be easily identifiable to the international actors such as United Nations (UN), European Union (EU) and African Union (UN) unilaterally should be clear enough for this violation.  I would also want to highlight that that was not the fact as in the issue of

Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe’s allegations were just allegation and not proven but were suspected.

Madam President, according to the Zimbabwe point of view,  the UN debated the issue  of sanctions and did not agree on the case alleged against Zimbabwe.  There was no conceivable offence leveled against Zimbabwe but a strong powerful State, the United States of America, single handedly resolved the case against Zimbabwe by putting punitive sanctions, which they call targeted sanctions and EU followed suit.

Madam President, if I may ask, what crime had Zimbabwe  committed?  You will wonder.  The bone of contention was the land issue and will still remain the land issue.  This led to the bilateral dispute between Zimbabwe and Britain.  According to the Lancaster Agreement, Britain has agreed to foot the bill on a willing buyer, willing seller arrangement but 10 years later, Tony Blair shifted goal posts and this led to Zimbabwe grabbing its land; it took back its land.  I think if I still remember, this started from Mashonaland East when Chief Svosve led a group in Marondera and they demanded what was

initially theirs.

If you would want to note Madam President, British or White people were 2% of the population but they occupied 70% of the land but imagine who was the culprit there?  According to EU and America, it was Zimbabwe but factually it was not; what hypocrisy. That is why we call these ‘illegal sanctions’.  If you want to think further, these illegal sanctions were also targeted to frighten other states like Namibia, South Africa and Mozambique so that they would not follow the same route Zimbabwe had taken.  They wanted to intimidate them so that they would not get back their land as well.

Madam President, the natural justice procedure of determining the wrong party was not followed.  They felt UN sanctions were smuggled into operation by the United State of America and EU.  These sanctions are targeted at certain individuals in Zimbabwe.  These sanctions are an economic war which through various amendments later affected industries, parastatals, private business transactions, which affected innocent Zimbabweans.  For example if I have a shop as Mbohwa, people come and surround my shop saying no one should buy from this shop. If someone tries to buy from my shop during the night, that person will be targeted as well.  Eventually my business will collapse.  They we saying targeted sanctions but these are not targeted because through amendments they targeted industries, parastatals, private business transactions diamond and gold producers and rejected the sales. So we had nowhere to sell.  If you try to sell to someone, that individual was going to be targeted so we were left isolated, hence crippling our economy.  Women and children are the most affected.  The only companies where women would work closed down leaving them jobless.  Men migrated to foreign lands in search for work, tearing the family apart leaving women burdened with the duty to raise the children in a country where there are no drugs.  It is like you live in Hwange National Park and all the water sources dry up, you can survive for a few days or you have to leave everything to God – [HON.

SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -

Madam President, no single country can survive without getting loan from IMF, World Bank et cetera but the European Union and

America are saying Zimbabwe should operate on a cash basis, yet Mr. President there is no single government that can survive on a daily cash budget without loan facilities to cushion financial projection not even USA  and EU.  How can we survive as a nation?  They claim we have internal sanctions.  I wonder if their PhDs mean philosophy in historical distortion.  It is a strange logic to expect a government to address its problems with tied hands financially.

Madam President, investors are not coming because they are scared of being targeted as well – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – These sanctions are genocidal in nature to the ordinary Zimbabwean.  Mr. President, from 1990 to present how many people have died due to economic related problems like hunger, stress related illnesses, HIV, due to increased prostitution, drug shortages, strikes by doctors and lack of proper nutrition, to name a few.

These countries are calling for change of Government instead of lifting up sanctions.  This shows that the land dispute is still going on.  USA and its allies still deny responsibility for human pain.   They claim that it is the Government and if asked what should be done, they talk of regime change.  They thought regime change would reverse land gains.  No, they are dreaming, the land came through by the shedding of blood of our heroes, it will never be reversed.

America defends its interests, citizens and its nation.  It has punitive laws for citizens who bring despondency in their country but has the guts to divide Zimbabweans.  It is high time we become aware of this and come up with similar laws to protect our citizens from untold sufferings.

Madam President, we do not want economic war, we need dialogue.  New dispensation approach is not finding a taker.  The President is advocating for reengagement, dialogue and legal reforms but USA and EU are not prepared to give him an ear.  They always shoot down at the President’s efforts.

Madam President, I would like to thank the SADC Heads of State for continuously calling for the removal of these illegal sanctions and also declaring 25^th October as the date which SADC member states collectively voice their disapproval of the illegal sanctions.  Let us all through this august House, support this cause because sanctions have no boundaries.  They affect every Zimbabwean regardless of race, belief or party. Let us all call for the removal of these illegal sanctions sooner than yesterday. I thank you Madam President.

HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI:  On a point of order Madam

President, I am wondering whether Ministers are coming.

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  This is what I am

working on.  You saw me calling the Chief Whip and the Deputy Clerk and we were talking about that.  I think they are not going anywhere very far.  As we are going on with this debate, someone can be allowed to move around in Parliament.

HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI:  Thank you Madam President.  I

strongly feel that as a House we have to address this issue.  I only saw two Ministers and it is 30 minutes into the Question Time.  The debate can still go on but these have fixed time.  We did not agree on the time Question Time will commence.  Yes, you might be consulting but I do not think the House is aware of what is going to happen and whether the debate is going to continue. Are Ministers coming and after how long?

It is a fixed time for Question Time. I am really thinking that you

should be able to address us, that it is 30 minutes after starting of Parliament.  I saw two Ministers in the House and they should be more than that.  Is there a problem or it is just a contempt of the Senate?

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  I agree with what you

are saying.  We agreed from the beginning that since Ministers are not yet here, we can continue with other business of the Senate.     

   *HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI:  Thank you Madam President.  I

want to thank Hon. Sen. Mbohwa for bringing in this important motion on sanctions which were put to trouble the country of Zimbabwe. The history of Zimbabwe and other countries is that every country does elections to elect leaders whom they want and Zimbabwe does not interfere.  We do not take our policies to other countries.  The policies we do are for Zimbabwe and good for our people.  America and their friends do not want that.  They want to give us their policies.

Madam President, sanctions are similar to death penalty.  They are killing people.  Sanctions are causing poverty.  We do not have medicines in hospitals, our education is poor, and road infrastructure is poor.  All this is caused by sanctions.  America says that it is because we are failing to administer but it is because of sanctions.  May they leave us alone and we do our own things.  We cannot go to America and get involved in their politics.  As it has been said by Hon. Mbohwa, the issue is about land.  They just wanted us to raise the flag, come to collect our minerals and take our riches to America.  That is why they brought these sanctions.  They want to abuse smaller countries by taking our riches.

It is not only Zimbabwe which is in poverty.  All other countries in the SADC are in trouble due to sanctions because we associate with these countries.  SADC members are being affected by sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe.  They helped us during the liberation struggle.

Their children died because of Zimbabwe’s liberation struggle.  America looks at the leader of Zimbabwe.  They want a puppet whom they can control; whom if they say stop in the middle of the road, he does without asking why.

President Mnangagwa’s policies are very good and these are the ones that are being attacked.  They say if they do not trouble President Mnangagwa and his Government, they will not be able to remove him.

We have old people who are supposed to be supported by this country. The sick and the disabled need assistance. We have orphans who also need assistance but because of sanctions all these people are suffering.

I want to thank SADC as it has always been its agenda that Zimbabwean sanctions are removed because these sanctions are not only affecting Zimbabwe but they are affecting other countries in the SADC.  We want to thank this good friendship.  We will not be separated because we are one people.  Let me say these sanctions, as SADC sees it, they want them to be removed.

I support this motion that they did very well to set the date of 25^th

October that the whole of SADC demonstrates that sanctions against Zimbabwe are removed.  It shows that we are united.  A country cannot develop if it is under sanctions.  We cannot say they are targeted.  They have to define them but they are not.  I was reading today’s newspaper.

Britain was refusing that in Zimbabwe there are sanctions.  They are saying they are targeted.  Which targeted sanctions are they talking about?  Myself and Hon. Tsitsi Muzenda were members of the Politburo and we are under sanctions.  I am not allowed to go to Britain and I do not even want to go to Britain. What do I want from there?  I stay here in Zimbabwe.  How did Britain and America know that there is Alice Chimbudzi - that is my question?  Let me say these are not targeted.

Our economy is failing to grow because of sanctions. We had companies like NRZ, Dairibord and ZUPCO which were performing well but all these companies were destroyed by jealous and cruelty so that Zimbabweans  end up going  to America or Britain as economic refugees. We support that SADC had a good reason that these sanctions have to be removed and the people of Zimbabwe should support SADC for the call on the removal of sanctions. We want to be united with

SADC in the removal of sanctions.

Let me say this Madam President, on political issues, all countries in the world hold elections. Now Mozambique is having elections and has three candidates. Botswana and Namibia are having elections and in Zimbabwe they are also coming. In Zimbabwe we had 130 candidates and all of them contested? No one was disallowed. Some people dropped from the race on their own but other parties participated. Zimbabweans choose the leader whom they want and other countries do not choose leaders for us. We choose on our own as Zimbabwe.

As Zimbabwe, we should not backtrack on the issue of land.   We can be attacked until our death but we will keep our land. We will hold Zimbabwe in our hands because it is our heritage for our children. If we do not have land, what are we? How can we be said we are Zimbabweans when we do not have land? All the other things can follow but the biggest thing is that we have land. They have farms in their countries and they do not want us to have them so that we keep on begging from them. We will not do that. We will keep our farms together with SADC.

I want to thank SADC on this vision and we want to thank them as Zimbabwe and this House that SADC, you did well to have that vision that you want these sanctions to be removed. We can have some

Zimbabweans saying we do not have sanctions but people are suffering. Even us as parliamentarians, we are not getting our salaries because of sanctions. We are not even competing with Botswana on salaries because Botswana has no sanctions that we have. We are supposed to be getting good salaries but because of sanctions, the country does not have money.

I want to thank SADC for this vision. We are standing with SADC and we would want to thank you for standing with us even if it is difficult, with sanctions coming from Britain and USA, we will not give up the fight. I want to thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to support this motion on sanctions. Let us keep our heritage and keep our Zimbabwe no matter that there are sanctions, there are friends who stand with us and there are many of them. Let us stand with those friends also as a country. Hon. Members, let us go and march so that sanctions are removed.

*HON. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President for

giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion brought by Senator Mbowha, seconded by Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi. I want to say this country is ours.  God himself saw it fit that we be called Zimbabweans and gave us this country. I want to thank SADC countries which are bordering us; maybe it is caused by the fact that we are one people. Some say we all came from the north and so we are one people.  There is no one explaining convincingly why these sanctions were put. They are bringing hardship.

These sanctions were not targeted but they were given to every citizen; the rich, middle class and the poorest. What we have seen over the years is that these sanctions have affected even married couples. Wife and husband cannot be happy thinking about poverty caused by these sanctions.

Let us go to the issue of banks. We have banks  affected because of this ZIDERA law that says there is no bank in this country which is able to help me to buy things in America. We have one commercial bank in this country which was fined  $2,48 million just because they did  transactions for people buying things outside. When they sat down crafting ZIDERA there are many things in ZIDERA. We have one commercial bank which also paid a fine of $3,8 billion because they did transactions with companies in this country.  We have many banks that are under sanctions. What has this to do with banks?

I saw Reuben Barwe on television saying that his account was cancelled. When he asked why, it was said because he is from Zimbabwe. If we look in the recent past, we had a company which closed because we are not getting foreign currency. There is no one who does not know that if a country has to move forward, it has to access money from the World Bank. We are supposed to be getting money from other countries. Banks in other countries do not want to do business with us because they are afraid that if they do so, the giant called America will be against them

We are no longer able to go and buy machines. We know very well that for us to be able to print our money, we should have machines which are bought from outside. That is not possible because of sanctions. Our industry has been destroyed. In Bulawayo, all companies are closed.

What surprises me is that these sanctions, some of us are the ones who asked for them.  This is affecting even our education.  We had Swedish Fund which assisted people and they were warned not to bring that money.  They were supposed to give US$13, 9 million for assisting children who are poor.

What troubles me as people of this country is we used to be united, but there are some of us who went to ask for these sanctions. However, sanctions do not select that we are going to Hon. Senator

Hungwe’s house.  These sanctions are affecting every house-hold in this country.   So, I am saying as a people of this country, let us go and unite so that sanctions are removed.   

As a nation, we pride ourselves that we have diamonds and other minerals but we cannot sell those diamonds abroad because of sanctions.  So, I would like to thank our God and our ancestors.  We were now supposed to be cannibalizing each other but because of our ancestors and our Maker who have protected us up to this time, we are not dying of hunger.   Our President said that no one will die of hunger even if there is no rain.

I want to appeal to my countrymen who went to ask for sanctions; we saw on television yesterday, some of us saying keep on pressing that Zimbabwe will continue to suffer.  However, I am sorry because I am suffering and you are also suffering.

The white men came in this country and took away the fertile land where they removed us and then we took up arms to liberate our country and took our land, it is our right.  The Bible says, “the children of Israel where given Canaan when He delivered them from Egypt”. So, we have our Canaan, which is Zimbabwe.  Let us unite and fight together so that the sanctions are removed.  They have to go, it is enough.

Madam President, even those who want to have the sanctions kept will make sure that ZIDERA is removed.  Let us look to the East but some of us went to beg for those sanctions but your relatives are also suffering.  So, I want to thank SADC and   I also want to thank Senator Mbowa for bringing up this motion.  Tomorrow we are going to march, putting on our tennis shoes, to cry that these sanctions are removed.  Just let them remove these sanctions even only for a month and see what will happen to Zimbabwe.  We have leaders who are wise and who know what they are doing who fought for this country.  As Senators, let us go to the march tomorrow to cry for one thing that sanctions be removed so that our children will have a good life and education.  Zimbabwe has educated children who know what they are doing.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President for

according me this opportunity to add my voice.  Firstly, allow me to repeat what I once said.  As the Senate, we are an arm of the Government; so as such, when we debate, we should know that we are doing it on behalf of our country.  Let me thank Hon. Sen. Mbowa for this motion on sanctions.

Sanctions have destabilised our county, they have come about because of the land that we took from the whites, and they forget that land is the one that caused our children to go for war so that we get back our land.  It was a difficult struggle for us to get this land.  Our children went there from all the parts of the country.  They were not concerned where they come from but they had one thing in common, which is the land.  That is why today we now have our country and because of that sanctions were imposed upon us.

The populace of Zimbabwe is being troubled.  As the people of Zimbabwe in this House, we want to give credit to the SADC for coming up with support for the removal of sanctions because they know that the people of Zimbabwe want their elections and they have their leader but the people who gave us sanctions were not happy about that because going back to the history, the partition of Africa, they fought for this country, they wanted our minerals, that is what they want.  They want to frighten us but we will not go back because this is our country.  We want to support that the sanctions that they have put in place should be removed.  They just gave us sanctions for no reason.  So, from this House, we are crying that they should remove the sanctions unconditionally.  If they have any conditions, we should go to court because we do not owe any one anything.  They are just oppressing our country.  In this country, people are struggling because of sanctions, for example, if you are in business, you cannot do business on your own; you go to the bank for loans.  The same applies with a country, and there is a World Bank which was put in place by all the countries.  We have IMF, they can give countries loans but we are embargoed Madam President and it is very painful as it is for no apparent reason.  In our country, there are some people who see and some people do not see.  The thing that will take our country forward is dialogue.  From way back up to the Lancaster Constitution, the hiccup there was also the issue of land.  The ZANLA and ZIPRA forces were fighting from various ends and the Rhodesian Front was also fighting but our war was won through dialogue.

So all the things that are troubling us as a nation can only be ended through dialogue.  There are some people who are afraid of dialogue because they do not have points.  They are just told to refuse and are puppets.  We should use our brains fully, like tomorrow - the day which was agreed on the Thirty-Ninth Summit – all the other countries agreed and who are you?  Does your party have people at heart because people are suffering from finding even education and industry has gone down because of the people who want sanctions.

Even here in this House, we just did not come but we are representing various parties – ZANU PF and MDC but this is our thing.  We came up with our Constitution united as all the parties.  Even today, I am inviting all of us as citizens of Zimbabwe, if you are not sellouts, we should come out tomorrow in our numbers and cry for our country.

If there is anything that you want, our President has stretched out his hand that those who want to participate in the dialogue, should come and apply your minds on the table.

Dialogue is the only thing that will end everything.  Why are you afraid?  Those who do not have anything to contribute will not come because they do not have anything to say.  So our country as Zimbabwe, we will keep on supporting it because our children died.  Madam President, I am proud to say that where you are sitting there, you got that place through the war, by participating in the struggle.  Now that we have the country, we should support it and Zimbabwe will never be a colony again.  No matter what they do, we stand firm because this is our country and it is not going anywhere.  So we want to applaud SADC for their vision.  Tomorrow, 25^th October 2019, you will see crowds in this nation marching in support of the anti-sanctions.  Those who do not want to participate, they can just watch while people who have their nation at heart will march and see that this nation has people who love their country.

I am pained Madam President and I feel sorry for some of us who have not seen the revelation.  We will support our President and we know that he has a lot of friends and this country will go forward.  We want to support that sanctions be removed immediately and unconditionally.   Thank you Madam President for according me this opportunity.

*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA:  Thank you Madam President for

giving me this opportunity of making my contribution on this motion which is very important and it is showing that the people of Zimbabwe are in deep problems caused by these sanctions.  When I look back, these countries which imposed sanctions on us, the British and the Americans are used to ill treating us just because during that time, in those early years, they used to enslave our ancestors.  Our ancestors would be captured from their countries and villages and tied in shackles and they crossed the oceans to all those overseas countries and they developed those countries.  We talk about underground trains and railway systems in those overseas countries, these were dug by our ancestors who were taken there as slaves and this is the system which they are used to and they believe that as Africans, we are their slaves.

Let me now turn to the Americans.  This is a country which is very selfish and which is a bully, they look at themselves as the people who are the kings and ruling all over the world.  They have their own initiatives as they do not care about other people. As a result, when these Americans feel Zimbabwe should cower because they have seen these bullies, but they have no chance.  Zimbabwe is endowed with a lot of minerals. What is now happening is that they look for some people who are weaklings or sell outs and they enslave the sell outs and hold them in capturing our local natural wealth for the benefit of the Americans.

That is why we have these problems because the current leadership in the country is so strong that the Americans and the British have failed to penetrate and they are frustrated.  That is why they cannot give the reason why these sanctions were imposed on Zimbabwe.  They are using a term saying that these are targeted sanctions, yet these sanctions are affecting even the old folk at home.  They cannot afford buying the things they want because of the sanctions.  Therefore, the ordinary person in the rural areas, in the locations, in the ghetto from this country are cut from the international lines of credit.

We know in the current situation you cannot use cash to purchase everything you want. Some of the countries have that benefit of going to the International Monetary Fund agencies but Zimbabwe has been ostracised.  Zimbabwe has been discriminated against; therefore, they should remain under sanctions.  They envy endowment of our natural wealth.  Therefore, we have to suffer.  They are trying hard to state- capture Zimbabwe because whenever they look at Africa, they think about what they did to our sisters whom they took and enslaved.  Some of them still have generations in America.

We are in Zimbabwe, we are in Africa and we are talking about SADC.  When we talk about SADC, we are talking about the union of friendly countries which work together and we were helped in our war of liberation by these SADC countries.  During the war of liberation, we had a lot of support from the SADC countries, especially in supplying us with weapons, assisting us in areas where we could be trained and in areas where we needed treatment after fighting a war.

As a result, these countries are now suffering because of the sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe. The Americans still feel they need to have a sell out who they can place in Zimbabwe to obey their will and their likes.  We are glad SADC countries have noticed that.  Zimbabwe will never be a colony again.  They realised that if they leave Zimbabwe to fight the war of sanctions alone, they will also be affected.  That is why they are saying, attack on one SADC member country, you have attacked all the countries of the SADC.  Not only that, as the countries of Africa, we believe in that there should be an establishment of the United States of Africa.

Therefore, we are saying, since SADC is supporting us in this war against the removal of the illegal sanctions, SADC has promised to work with us in the fighting of the illegal sanctions.  What it means is; as the people of Zimbabwe who are feeling the pinch of this, we are suffering.  Therefore, on the day of fighting these sanctions, let us all go out.  Let us go and demonstrate and fight these sanctions together and show our unity of purpose in the call for the removal of these illegal sanctions.  I am calling upon us as the leaders that we should unite.  We should work together with the people.  We know you have set the date of 25^th October and that is tomorrow, Friday.

I am calling upon all patriotic Zimbabweans that you should go and move out and demonstrate so that the Americans and the British will see that Zimbabwe is saying, ‘remove all these illegal sanctions.’  What we know is that this is the first step we are taking in uniting these countries of Africa.  We are starting as SADC but what I know is that in the end, we are going to have the United States of Africa.  I am grateful to you Mr. President for giving me the time to make my contribution.  I also thank Hon. Sen. Mbowa and Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for introducing this motion.  I thank you.

+HON. SEN. S. MPOFU:  Thank you Mr. President for giving me the chance to make my contribution on the motion on the removal of illegal sanctions.  Thank you Hon. Sen. Mbowa.  Thank you Hon. Sen.

Chimbudzi.  The sanctions are a problem to the people of Zimbabwe.  When we look at the sanctions in Zimbabwe, we know they were introduced through an Act introduced by America which is the

ZIDERA Act.  This has created problems for all the people of

Zimbabwe.  What surprises me is that when the ZIDERA was crafted, is because we had some of the people of Zimbabwe who went to America and asked for these sanctions.  These people who are not patriotic really went to the Americans and begged for the introduction and imposition of these sanctions.

What pains me is that the people who went and begged for sanctions are people who were elected by the people.  They are respectable people and some of them are even in this august House.  What also pains me is that when we are elected as Members of

Parliament, we take oath, ‘I, .... Solemnly affirm that I will be faithful to Zimbabwe, that I will uphold the Constitution and all other laws of

Zimbabwe, and that I will perform my duties as a Senator or Member of the National Assembly faithfully and to the best of my ability.  So help me God’.  What surprises me is despite taking the oath of allegiance of patriotism to the State of Zimbabwe, the same people later turn around and go to a foreign country and beg for sanctions to be imposed on your country.  Why do we foul mouth your country?

We think that as Members of Parliament let us craft a law that will lead to the prosecution and mandatory incarceration of such unpatriotic Zimbabweans.  The problems which we are facing as Zimbabweans – I come from Bulawayo in the province of Matabeleland.  The people of Matabeleland, especially in Bulawayo used to earn a living by working through the factories in Bulawayo and Bulawayo was the industrial giant of the country of Zimbabwe.  These factories have now shut down and the people of Bulawayo are now living like paupers.  I remember some time back, the people of Zimbabwe would be proud of riding their bicycles going to the factories to the industrial site, some would be ferried by the company omnibuses whilst some of them would be ferried by lorries to their places of employment.

 

 

What is now happening is that these industrial sites have now been turned into religious sites and I wonder whether the dear good Lord above is going to listen to the prayers which are being done on those sites which were once economic areas.  The closures of the factories in Bulawayo have also forced the people of Zimbabwe to emigrate.  I can comfortably say we have more than two to three million people of Zimbabwe who are economic refugees in other countries yet in the past people were able to work in their own country and be able to look after their families.  Now, this has changed. We cannot produce or manufacture goods.

Madam President, what I noticed is that these sanctions keep on being increased as a result oppressing the people of Zimbabwe.  There is diamond place in Marange.  The people who put sanctions are now saying the Marange diamonds are produced under slavery which is a lie.  We once visited that place as a Committee on Mines and we did not get any element of truth on the enslavement of people there.  Even the report which we produced also showed that there was no slavery taking place there.  The Americans have said they will not buy or allow the diamonds to be sold abroad because there is forced labour but this is false.  We know that our diamonds are clean, they are not black or slave diamonds.

Madam President, some other institutions like banks have had sanctions imposed on them.  This shows that it is a lie, it is a misnomer when they call them targeted sanctions because they are not targeting individuals, they are only targeting the people of Zimbabwe.  I wish if our compatriots would understand the position just like what SADC countries are doing.  They have promised to work with the people of Zimbabwe in calling for the removal of these illegal sanctions because the people of Zimbabwe are suffering.

Madam President, to tell you the truth they may be called targeted but the people who are targeted are not suffering.  When you look at the education sector, stationery is a problem.  If you go to the health sector, we have no medication or even health personnel and when you look at the financial side we are not getting money from the International Monetary Fund.  We are saying sanctions have to be removed so that the economy of Zimbabwe may grow and we live a decent life.

Madam President, I am pleading with our fellow patriots that they should not go out and talk bad about this country because what we know is that the problems in Zimbabwe will never be solved by foreigners but will only be solved by the people of Zimbabwe.  The greatest gift the people of Zimbabwe have is that we have a listening President.  He is the person who can be approached by anybody who has constructive ideas especially in the development of the country.

Madam President, when we look at tourism we realised that because of these sanctions, these countries have said the hunters who come for trophy hunting are now dissuaded, prohibited from coming to hunt trophies and yet we know that the province of Matabeleland used to get some money from trophy hunting done by hunters from foreign countries but now they are no longer coming.  We used to get monies from offshore accounts but now we are no longer accessing those funds.

When talking about these sanctions, the elderly people are suffering because their daily meals are affected as a result of these illegal sanctions.

*HON. SEN. SHUMBA:  I rise to make my contribution on this important motion.  I will be covering the gaps which were left by the previous contributors because if I repeat, it will be monotonous.  We are supported by these countries because they felt that it is their duty to support Zimbabwe on the call for removal of sanctions.  So we are saying, let us work together as the people of Zimbabwe so that these illegal sanctions are removed.  We should not fight amongst ourselves as Zimbabweans.  We are all Zimbabweans regardless of the fact that we are from different political parties.

Madam President, these sanctions are not discriminating whether you are opposition or not.  I remember when we were young we used to play a game holding hands and identify amongst the people who would be holding hands where a problem would have penetrated through which is a weak link on the chain. So we are saying, please let us avoid as people of Zimbabwe to call for more sanctions.  Let us not call for sanctions.  We have created a strong chain and there should be no weak link.  I am calling upon the people of Zimbabwe to go for the March on

Friday, 25^th October, 2019 so that we call for the removal of sanctions.

We have countries which are supporting us but they have no sanctions imposed on them. They are sympathising with the people of Zimbabwe.  So, as people of Zimbabwe, let us unite in calling for the removal of the illegal sanctions.

+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the chance to make my contribution on this motion on the removal of sanctions which was introduced by Hon. Sen. Mbohwa and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi.  When we talk of sanctions, this is tantamount to witchcraft and tyranny because this is creating problems amongst the people of the country.  I am saying the sanctions which have been imposed on us are equivalent to the diabolic acts.  The Americans are diabolic because they hate countries that are living in peace and those that are progressing.  All the Americans want is to create hatred amongst the people who are living happily.  They are also gluttons.  They want all the wealth in other countries to belong to them.  They want to grab it.

What is happening is, we are fighting for the wealth of Zimbabwe which came through the bloodshed of the people of Zimbabwe.  All the Americans want is for the people of Zimbabwe to be proud of being independent without substance on the independence.  The Americans are saying these sanctions are targeted, which are targeting individuals but the truth is that in the shops prices of goods are high.  In the clinics we have no medication.

I am one of those people who is included on that list.  I am Alice

Dube.  How did they know about me and that I am a liberation fighter.

We have people amongst us who hate their country.  They travel to

America to go and call for these sanctions but the Lord loves

Zimbabwe.  If it was not for the Lord, people would be dying of starvation but because he is protecting us, we have food and we are well.  If these people want to impose these sanctions, they should go and beg to the people in Mozambique, Zambia and Malawi because they cannot win in Zimbabwe.  Zimbabwe came through the bloodshed of the people who fought for the liberation of this country.

We have had SADC countries supporting us because they know they suffered with the people of Zimbabwe. I am saying this because some of the people who died in the war of liberation, their spirit is rising and calling for a decent burial in their home areas.  They are even talking and people are hearing, especially the bones of heroes who were laid in those mass graves.  They are saying, please we want to be taken for decent burial in our home areas in Zimbabwe.  Therefore, as people of Zimbabwe, may it get into our heads that these people of America do not love us and we know the love of money is a sin.  If we are patriotic, we will live and die in Zimbabwe.

These Americans will always look for any small chance to foul mouth Zimbabwe.  They will talk about violation of human rights in Zimbabwe.  Let us take a simple example of domestic violence.  A single incident, they will take it up and say in Zimbabwe there is no peace, there is violence, there are no human rights and yet it is an individual case. We have known that in nature, couples squabble and fight but when it comes to Zimbabwe, it is taken as a human rights issue.  We need to be together as the people of Zimbabwe.

In a political circle, we need to have the ruling party.  We also need to have the opposition and that opposition should also be patriotic.  When we see the opposition being unpatriotic, it means there is a third hand. I went to Cuba.  Cuba suffered sanctions for 59 years but despite that they are proud of who they are.  They do not want to use the United States dollar. They are proud of their currency.  The Cubans are a tight unit.  You may not believe that they have sanctions because they are together.  What really pleased me was that whether somebody belongs to the opposition or the ruling party, they are all together.  They work for their country.  Despite the sanctions, they have a way of fighting these sanctions and create their own goods yet we have people who go to those western countries and call for sanctions.  If you do it in Cuba, you will be incarcerated but in Zimbabwe we do not do that.

The people in our rural areas are looking up to us to see whether we are going to take the necessary steps in removal of sanctions.  I know we may talk about corruption and so on but we know for a fact that the suffering of the people of Zimbabwe is caused by these illegal sanctions.  We know there are some people who were there before us, who started politics earlier before us and they know the behaviour of the whites.  They know how these whites penetrated us.  They know the whites enslaved our ancestors and it also pains them that there are these people who they elected into power to be in Parliament but these same people go clandestinely to the enermies of the State and call for the imposition of sanctions on Zimbabwe.  This is a sin.

Some of us will go to hell and burn in that everlasting flame because of the evil they are doing to the people of Zimbabwe. These sanctions are a pain and a torture.  As patriotic people of Zimbabwe, we are saying sanctions must go.  These illegal sanctions should be removed.  They are diabolic, satanic and destructive.  I want to show people who are talking about these sanctions where there are people who died during the war.  We want to know whether these people will have the courage of going to the places where we have mass graves.

We are not cry babies.  We fought for the liberation of this country.  Zimbabwe came through bloodshed and the people of Zimbabwe suffered for this country in one way or the other.  We had relatives who partook in the war.  We had our forefathers who were politicians and were incarcerated, some of them were beaten by sjamboks and others were bitten by dogs.  We are saying, let us work together.  That is why I am calling upon the patriotic people of Zimbabwe to work together now that we are realising that other SADC countries are calling for the removal of sanctions.  Therefore, if other countries are supporting us, why can we not do it as patriotic Zimbabweans? Support this call and march together as people of

Zimbabwe calling for the removal of the sanctions.

This is my belief that even the Lord above will be with us supporting us in our call for the removal of sanctions.  We have had families being broken down because they go as economic refugees.  These people go to South Africa and what is sad about this is that when they come back, some of them come as dead bodies because life abroad is bad.  Now, we are noticing that our neighbours in SADC have said they will support us and work with us in calling for the removal of sanctions. 

Therefore, if other countries are supporting us, why do we not as patriotic Zimbabweans support this call and march with those people? As people of Zimbabwe calling for the removal of sanctions, I am saying this is my belief that even the Lord and Angels above will be with us supporting us in our call for the removal of sanctions. We have had families being broken down because they go as economic refugees especially to countries like South Africa whose nationals do not like us. When they go to those countries, what is sad about this is that they come back as dead bodies because life abroad is bad. Now, we are noticing that our neighbours in the SADC have said they will support and work with us in calling for the removal of sanctions.

As Zimbabweans, I am saying let us work together. The sanctions are diabolic, torturous and a menace. Sanctions must go. Remove all these sanctions. We need medication in hospitals, jobs for our children who are graduates and are roaming the streets because there are no jobs. The economy is down. We want the investors to come. Therefore, I am grateful to the people of Zimbabwe who are prepared to go and call for the removal of sanctions.

As Members of Parliament, we are commuting and yet we are supposed to be allocated cars but we cannot get these because of foreign currency. When I am addressing people in my constituency, I travel an ox-drawn or donkey driven cart and at times I have to disembark some distance away from the people because I do not want them to see that I have problems in getting my transportation. We have problems when travelling.

We have noticed that people are also aware that Parliament or being a Member of Parliament is no longer a good job which used to be envied by other people. We are saying devil, you have no chance, and we will tread upon you. I thank you.

+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: Firstly, I would like to thank our President, Cde. E.D. Mnangagwa for visiting these SADC countries asking for assistance from member States to help the country make sure that they fight these sanctions imposed on our country. These sanctions came through because of the land reform exercise that was carried out by Zimbabwe. Most of the people right now are angry considering where they came from as a country, the liberation war. Some of these people who are from America always think that they are the best. Therefore, they need to make sure that they enslave other people. This is very disturbing especially to a country like Zimbabwe.

However, with all this that has happened, tomorrow SADC has said let us come together with the people of Zimbabwe and make sure that we help them get these sanctions removed as soon as possible. Our President, Cde E.D. Mnangagwa went through quite a number of countries, particularly within SADC seeking help from member States to make sure that they rally behind our country to have those sanctions removed. Therefore, as the people of Zimbabwe, let us unite to make sure that we speak with one voice to make sure that these illegal sanctions are removed from this country.

To those people who are going around trying to misinform people regarding the impact of sanctions in our country I say they are lost. They just want to enjoy seeing other people suffer and making sure that we continue to be sellouts. However, we are saying this should stop. Mr. President, we continue to encourage our President to make sure that we will fully support him because we are talking of a man who liberated our country and is also going to liberate this country from these sanctions. We are going to make sure that we achieve this tomorrow morning. To those who will be there and those who will not be there, all we want to say is that we will be there to make sure that we fight these sanctions. To the spirits of those who were left behind in the different places after the liberation struggle of the country they are going to be fighting with us to make sure that we succeed in this fight against the sanctions imposed on our country.

When talking about these sanctions, some of us are deeply hurt because we know the suffering that we went through. Some people are saying whatever they are saying because they do not know what difficulties we went through and they continue to go to the western world to ask for these sanctions. Mr. President, this country is not going to go back to those who continue to impose these sanctions, especially the Americans. Therefore, we are saying tomorrow morning, we are going to succeed in making sure that we get these sanctions removed.

We are going to succeed in this tomorrow morning.

Comrades, I would like to say we are going to show our President that when we leave this Parliament, we are going to thank SADC for the help that they provided. Why, because as a country we have quite a number of minerals that these western countries are fighting us for.

Bulawayo used to be known as an economic hub, no wonder why it was named “koNtuthu Ziyathunqa” but because of these sanctions, all this is gone. We used to have quite a number of products that came from factories in Bulawayo which were exported to other countries.

However, all this is a thing of the past. Therefore, as Members of this House, we need to work together to make sure that our country progresses. This country is not going to go back to being ruled by those people who continue to want to impose sanctions on our country. Thank you.

++HON. SEN. MALULEKE: I want to thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to stand and debate on this important motion.  Sanctions are affecting everything in Zimbabwe including wild animals.  It is also affecting us in that we are not getting medicines in hospitals.  Even some veld fires are caused by sanctions because people will be burning forests looking for rats.  It is not even raining because of these sanctions.  Where I come from, we have wild animals where we get game meat which used to be sent to the Queen in Britain.  This is a delicacy which she is no longer enjoying as we took  all our land as a sovereign country.  Hence they put these sanctions.  We are encouraging everyone to join the march tomorrow as they are affecting every facet of life.

+HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President.  I will make my contribution on these sanctions and we talk about the problems we are facing.  I am telling the whole nation about the problems which are happening in Kariba.  Kariba is dwindling; it is dying because of these sanctions.  I am very grateful to the Hon. Members who made contributions on this motion.  In Kariba we have 50 000 people who are facing starvation because of low tourist activities in Kariba.  Kariba is also a hub of industry, tourism, and fishing and there are hotels.  I heard another Member who debated before me saying sanctions have destroyed tourism and I am saying Kariba is one of the areas which has been destroyed in terms of tourism.  In Kariba, we lost about 10 hotels and small as Kariba is when these hotels shut down, it created problems.

Looking at the fishing industry in Kariba; the percentage of people working in that industry is now very low and it is now on the verge of collapse. That is why I introduced this motion in the Senate.  This motion was also seen by people in other countries.  They informed me that for the past 13 years, they had tried to invest in Zimbabwe but faced difficulties.  They requested me to reconnect them for the purposes of reinvesting.  These people were Americans who had left the country in 2005 because they had failed to invest in the country especially in Kariba because of Government red tape.

My first port of call was at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, followed by ZANU PF officials who then led me to His Excellency the President of Zimbabwe, E.D Mnangagwa.  I informed the President about the problems faced by Kariba in terms of economy. He is a really listening President and accepted my suggestions.  The President advised me to go to the Zimbabwe Investment Authority with the idea of resuscitating the Kariba Economy.  He also acknowledged that sanctions were destructive.

In the past before these sanctions were imposed, Kariba used to earn a lot of foreign currency through the Kariba Dam.  I am therefore pleading with all patriotic Zimbabweans to go out in full force on the 25^th of October, 2019 and march for the removal of sanctions.

*HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President. I am also grateful to Hon. Mbohwa seconded by Hon. Chimbudzi calling on the removal of sanctions because we are in difficulties because of these illegal sanctions.  Before I go further, I think we need to critically analyse this.  We are people who have said we want our sovereignty and Zimbabwe will never be a colony again, hence we should not give other countries to decide what they want on us.

Therefore, in this august House where we are supposed to work for the development of the country, we should not worry about things which are happening in South Africa or America but let us try and perform our best.  I was so glad when at the introduction of the new dispensation and the coming in of His Excellency, E.D Mnangagwa as the President. These sanctions which were being discussed since the era of the late former President of Zimbabwe, R.G. Mugabe; we no longer need these sanctions.  This was said by the President of Zimbabwe and we are saying, we hoped that as Members of Parliament, we should also be talking about the removal of sanctions.  Let us not change our colours like the python or the chameleon moving around going with the wind.  I am saying; let us not tell a lie.  I am a doctor by profession and no matter what methods you may use of treating patients, if you do not have the right gadgets and methodologies, the patient will die.

We know what is causing all these problems in the counter, therefore I am saying, let us fight the real causes of this and not fight the symptoms only.  We know that this is not the first time that sanctions should be removed.  In 1980, Mwalimu Julius Nyerere said,

‘now that you are taking over this country as an independent country, please, preserve for this jewel of Africa.’  Let us not talk about selective amnesia.

We know that these sanctions were imposed long back and even before independence when this country was still Rhodesia, we had sanctions imposed on the country.  We also have countries which are working with us on these sanctions such as Russia and China and these countries did not impose sanctions on us.  I am saying let us not waste our resources trying to fight these sanctions but we know that we should put our resources together and go to countries like China and Russia and work with them for the development of our country and the removal of sanctions.  I know that some of you are surprised about what we are saying.   I am also suffering because of these sanctions as I am also feeling them.  We know why these sanctions were imposed on us, the main reason why they were imposed on us being that there were human rights violations and the Government is saying, we are talking to our people and this has nothing to do with you.

We are saying, if you want to turn around this economy, we need about $20 billion, yet in the past, we lost $14 billion and on the introduction of the new regime, we have lost $3 billion but is it because of the sanctions.  It really pains me because I am not talking about assumptions but about the reality because some hospitals have been closed down because there is no money to run these clinics.  I am saying if only those billions which were misplaced had been properly used, we would be having medicines in our hospitals and Mr. President, these sanctions are real and they may not be removed because we have no power to do that.  What we want to do is let us look for ways of having these sanctions to be removed because all we are doing in calling for the marches and demonstrations is just useless – these sanctions are not going to be removed.

Mr. President, I have heard people debating here saying the sanctions which were imposed on the country are affecting everybody as these are not discriminatory and not targeted but we are saying, let us work together.  Mr. President, I am saying as a concerned Zimbabwean citizen, the question that I am asking is, why were the sanctions imposed on my country?  The answer I get is that we have people who have disappeared because these are abuses of human rights.  We have people who were shot after elections in 2018 and in January, there was also chaos and people suffered.  – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible

interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Give the

Hon. Senator the chance to speak.

*HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President for

protecting me because the debate that we are holding is very essential and we notice that some of us are more patriotic than the other people who are making noise.  I have been working for 20 years with the Government and if I was not patriotic, I would have moved out of being a civil servant and established my own business and be earning a better living.  We are patriotic and we have to fight for the removal of sanctions.

We have been told why these sanctions were imposed on the country and we are saying let us correct those anomalies/problems pointed out by the countries which have imposed the sanctions on us.  These sanctions could have been removed during the time of the late

President of the Country Cde. Robert Mugabe.  He was an eloquent speaker and very intelligent.  We are saying if we have problems even as brothers, let us work together and solve the problem of these sanctions which are biting our country.  We are the same people, we work together and tomorrow I am promising that I will be matching with other people because these sanctions should be removed.  Again, when the sanctions have been removed, we will then get the energy to go and fight America to remove the sanctions because we cannot call for the removal of sanctions if we do not start by correcting the anomalies within ourselves.

When we are talking about this issue, let us not fight each other, let us not play the blame game and let us not tell lies but let us tell the truth, because these sanctions are for real and they were imposed because of the problems which were faced by the country.  I am saying let us correct all those anomalies which led to the imposition of sanctions.

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,

order.  Let us have order in the Senate.

*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: Thank you Mr. President.  We are always talking about these sanctions and what surprises me is that, when we are going towards elections, we campaign and write the manifestos and we promise people that we are going to solve all their problems.  What will have happened to the sanctions - what really needs to be done is that we should have started by removing these sanctions so that we work for the progress of these people?

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.

Zivira, the rules of these House are that when you are debating, you address the Chair.  Do not say munonyora but you should address the Chair.  That is the etiquette in the Senate.

*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA:  Thank you Mr. President.  We have some people who make false promises, who write false manifestos.  These promises given to the electorate will be promising that they are going to do a, b, c for them.  Going to education, we have parents who are paying school fees so that their children are educated.  During this period, we have these learners ejected from school because their fees would not have been paid and we now have a Government which is saying tomorrow there should be no school.  Children should go and demonstrate for the removal of sanctions.  We are saying, as an organised country, holidays are not an ad hoc but these public holidays are planned well in advance.  We know that in Zimbabwe we have some self employed people who are going to lose out because there will not be any business tomorrow because they are supposed to go to a march for the removal of sanctions.

I know there is a child of Dzamara who disappeared.  He is forced to go and demonstrate yet his father just disappeared.  You are going to call for the removal of sanctions which were caused by the abduction of his father.  I am saying as leaders, we need to sit down and put our heads together and get a solution to these problems.  We know the reason why these sanctions are imposed on a country.  Countries that impose sanctions do not impose on a country which has good governance.  There should be problems which would have happened on a country for it to earn these sanctions.  These targeted sanctions are targeted at people so that they do not open businesses outside.  You noticed during the GNU we were working perfectly well despite the presence of the GNU.  What is the difference between the life we were living in the GNU and the time we are living now?  What is happening is if we have a law now, within a period of three to four months the regulations are changed.  I will take an example of the use of the United States Dollar.  It was one on one.  The next time, it was one as to three and the next time, it was then used to the RTGS.

When the big bosses were using the United States Dollars, we were told that everything was okay but now the rate has changed.  We have selected industries which are allowed to trade in foreign currency yet some industries are denied that privilege.  I thank you.    

*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI:    Thank you Mr. President.  Let me quote from the scriptures.  When Samuel was old, he gave the powers to reign to his children.  His children failed to rule according to the will of God.  These people then went to Samuel and said, your children are ill treating us.  They are bad leaders.  Samuel then went before the Lord since he had direct contact with the Lord.  He asked the Lord what he would do with the people who were crying because of the bad leadership of his children.  The Lord said to Samuel, please be at peace.  These people are not blaming you but they are blaming me.  I will give them the King they want’.  I will now bring you back and tell you that God’s ways is not people’s ways.  People’s ways and God’s ways are different.  God’s thoughts and people’s thoughts are different.  The Lord says, I can make people suffer to the people whom I want and I can also bless the people I love.  I am saying all this so that you can also gain wisdom.

When we talk about the sanctions, we are talking about the people who were living during the time of Samuel because you asked for the sanctions and they were given to you.  In this country, I am one of the victims, I was tortured.   As I am now, I am disabled because of the torture I went through.  In 2002, when the sanctions were imposed on the country, there were T-shirts which were presented.  We have people which were marching in the streets who had a lot of T-shirts and some people were migrating into urban areas calling for the removal of sanctions.

I am saying, these sanctions are still there because despite all the calling for the removal of sanctions, there was no change because the people who were being blamed for capturing and torturing people are still violating human rights.  People are still suffering from the torture of these violations of human rights.   I am saying let us face the truth.

As it is, we are only hiding from the truth yet you know the truth.  These people will see you walk, calling for the removal of the sanctions and they will ask you whether you are the people who had imposed these sanctions.

What you need to know is what had happened, what led to the introduction of these sanctions?  During the past, these sanctions were introduced for Smith.  I know that this country is a friend to many countries and we can say who is suffering through these sanctions?  Even during the time of Smith, he managed to go through the industrialisation of this country despite the sanctions which were imposed on him.  Smith was not allowed to board a plane in his own country.  He would travel by road to Beitbridge and held meetings with the people who wanted to help him overcome the sanctions.   We have people in countries such as Russia, China and Britain.  We need to go and talk to these people.

Mr. President, we have come to a situation whereby we are not going to talk about our history like that we fought the war of liberation.  This was done by our parents.  The war of liberation was not fought by individuals but by all the people of Zimbabwe.  Therefore, let us not boast by saying, we have fought for this country because we have heard some Hon. Sen. who was saying, even going to our bedrooms, these are sanctions, shooting somebody and the if the policemen also misbehave, we say it is sanctions.  We need to tell the truth about what is happening.  Let us not do the blame game.  Let us face the truth and tell each other about what is happening.  I am saying, as the people of Zimbabwe, let us sit together and hold meetings to solve the problems faced by the country.  When we tell each other the truth on a round table, these sanctions are going to be removed.  Mr. President, we need unity.  Unity is strength.  When we are not talking in unison, these sanctions are not going to be removed.  I am afraid that these sanctions may bite deeper when we do not have the reigns as it is showing now.

This country is full of thieves and some of them are in the Government.

In a country under sanctions, some people including Ministers have more empires in this country.  The question is -where does the Minister get the money from to construct hotels and other properties, thus State capturing Victoria Falls and making it State Empire.

Mr. Speaker Sir, we are imposing these on ourselves.  The corruption in this country is more destructive than the sanctions because we have people who are travelling around this country or out of the country carrying 10 million dollars and yet you say we are under sanctions, is it true?  When this person is accumulating these ill-gotten wealth, he or she will be punishing fellow countrymen.  That is not being patriotic.  Therefore, let us not be misled by talking about these sanctions because we need to know what sanctions are.  We need to know the reasons why sanctions were imposed.

Mr. President, I am very sorry because all of us buy from the same shops and we have same needs, so please let us work together.  Mr. President, I want to believe that even Chiefs in their rural areas are no longer living in peace because people are now committing crimes, for example stock theft.  These people are suffering and they cannot take care of their families.  In the past, we used to offer services in return for money but things are now tough.

Mr. President, we have people who are being gathered and told about issues which do not help them.  Let us be patriotic, let us work together.

*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you for giving me this

opportunity to make my contribution on the removal of sanctions.  When this motion was introduced, I said let me give myself time to listen carefully to what is going on.  I realised that some of these countries do not have these sanctions.  We were saying on targeted sanctions list, we had two people, the late President Cde. Mugabe and his wife and the only country left is America.  America has a long list of people who are on the sanctions list. We ask ourselves what were the offences committed by these people for them to be included on the sanctions list?  We noticed that these people are corrupt, selfish and they do not sympathise with the people of Zimbabwe. They kill people as they want.

Mr. President, we Zimbabweans are the only people who can build our country. Why are we still suffering?  As far as I am concerned, these robbery or theft cases which are happening – there are people who were arrested for corruption, did they refund the monies which they took from the State? We start for example with people like Mr. Cuthbert Dube who used to work for PSMAS. It was stated that he was getting a salary of almost US$500 000 and that means with that kind of money you are able to go to countries far away like London for lunch and come back.  What happened to Dube?  Was he forced to refund the monies which were taken from the PSMAS coffers?

We have people like Mr. W. Chivayo who was awarded a tender to construct a solar project in Gwanda.  After some years, when Parliament Committee went to examine the progress, it was discovered that he had only built a small wooden cabin and has not returned that money yet he owns a helicopter.  He is always moving around, he is living a lavish life and he is very showy about that lavish life.

Mr. President, let me talk about the late Smith.  He had a four bedroomed house where he lived with his family and also had a guest house but in Zimbabwe, we have houses which have 50 bedrooms yet that Minister has two children and a wife.  Visitors are not allowed to visit that place.  We also have a place called Borrowdale Brook which is for the elite or the filthy rich.  If you visit Borrowdale Brook, you will be surprised at the sign of wealth which you see in that area.  If you look around you will see that the place breeds a lot of money.

Let me tell you that when these people started building these houses, these sanctions were already in existence.  As the people of

Zimbabwe, we need to make a clear research. In the past, when we were following our culture, we had the aunties who were go betweens when there were domestic problems. These aunties would solve these marriages.  One would pay a goat or chicken as a form of asking for forgiveness.

Mr. President, at the moment we are talking about removal of sanctions by America.  What is surprising is that we have people in Government who travel all over the world including America. All they bring are special clothing such as suits with well known labels.  What we need to do is to have a solution.  We are saying these people who violated human rights, who take people’s homes, who killed people should face the music.  We need to talk of removal of sanctions and also the misuse of funds – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -

Unfortunately, misuse of funds is also cascading down to the lower echelons of society.  There were economists who were urging the Government to go and arrest people who are abusing Command Agriculture inputs.  The problems we are facing in this country are not caused by sanctions but mismanagement of resources.  We have noticed that political leaders are not willing to have their followers arrested because they know they may lose votes.  We also noticed that these people do not tell the truth because they are afraid of losing the votes.

Mr. President, I know we are campaigning 22 hours per day and yet we are not doing things which are going to benefit the people of Zimbabwe.  As I am talking now, there is a list of a certain party saying there is a problem in the country.  The youth produced a list of people who were involved in corruption and people who have stolen millions and billions of dollars.  They started naming and shaming these people but what you notice is that instead of Government working together with these youths they threatened them with arrests.

You are calling for the removal of sanctions so that these people continue stealing and open accounts in New York and Geneva.  Mr. President, if sanctions are removed, they will continue stealing.  We also noticed that some of the people have houses in Dubai, Singapore, Thailand and yet people in Zimbabwe are living in poverty.  I have nothing to show for myself.  I am just a Lilian and I am sympathising with the people of Zimbabwe who are going to be bused from those

areas to come and demonstrate for the removal of sanctions_. 

What happens is that, you people who will have collected these  people, after the demonstrations these people go back to their poverty  but you leaders go back to live lavish lives, others in hotels or in your mansions. My father was a freedom fighter. That other lady was a war  collaborator and the other members of our party are war veterans. We respect people who fought for the country. We work together and  sympathies with the war collaborators.

As a legislature, I talked to so many war veterans who said they did not benefit anything. The problems we are facing as Zimbabweans can only be solved by us as the people of Zimbabwe. Let us not tell lies because we want to retain our seats as Senators, all because you want to drive a car and therefore you tell people lies. When you are driving that posh car, what do the people of Zimbabwe have because at the moment they are living in extreme poverty? What do we have to do with the

Americans because our country is endowed with many natural resources such as minerals; the diamonds and gold? Instead of utilising our own natural resources, we have called the Chinese to come into this country and take our diamonds which they export.

For instance, let us look at Zvishavane where we have asbestos and chrome which is being mined by the Chinese who take it back to their country. Zimbabwe has 62 types of minerals and we are not benefitting from them.  I am saying, who made that deal which makes the Chinese benefit? Why do we not talk with the Chinese to say since you are mining our minerals we need to have some community projects in the form of schools and clinics? Who negotiated this bad deal?

When we were looking at the budget we looked at mining, the diamonds and we noticed that these were put under miscellaneous section. We are saying mining which is so precious and important in our country is considered as miscellaneous and you start to wonder where the money we get from mining is. We thank the news reporters who talked about the people who were exporting these diamonds and these

Americans told this person that they were not going to buy those diamonds because the diamonds are mined through the torture and slavery of people in those areas.

We are all black Zimbabweans, why are we making each other suffer? Why do we not put our heads together and look for ways of solving our problems. In this country, we are now so selfish that we do not think of other people. As I talk right now, we have people who literally have bags of diamonds and bags of foreign currency in their homes. The people who have this contraband are the same people who can access money from the RBZ. They are the people who are supporting illegal money changers in the streets and when they go out they import expensive cars such as the Lamborghinis. Do we need such type of cars? What is it that we want? We need progress in this country.

The only problem we have in this country is governance. We have wrongly set our priorities. We need checks and balances, monitoring and evaluation of our progress or problems, and corruption.

In countries like Rwanda, corruption is a sin. If you indulge in corrupt activities, you really suffer yet we have a leader who is working so hard despite the fact that he is oppressing his people, he is working well and doing wonders for his country. I am not sure; he could be one of those people who have targeted sanctions.

Mr. President, I have my relatives and friends across the political divide. I am a patriotic Zimbabwean, I deserve to be in this House and to tell the truth. When I am given a position of authority, I will be selfish and get all these things to myself. I get pained when I hear of an individual talking of adults and saying these are my children or my people. All I am trying to put across is, we are our own enemies.

When I came into this House, there was blame game and fingerpointing but I am saying as Zimbabweans, we need to show where we are. Let us not declare war on other Zimbabweans.  As a Zimbabwean, I am not supposed to live in fear because this is my country. I should only suffer from fear when I visit other countries such as South Africa or America. How many people can afford to go to those countries? What I know is that you people only want these sanctions removed because you want to travel abroad. I am saying as Zimbabweans, let us be patriotic and work for the development of our country. Zimbabweans, we are one and the same. Let us not rule by imposing fear on the people. That time is gone and has come to an end.

Mr. President, I would have said a lot of things but what I believe is that in order for Zimbabwe to progress, I saw the motive of these people. I know if the sanctions are removed from these people there is nothing they would do to lead to the development of this country. The only way of progressing is to get together as Zimbabweans and unite. Let us know that all this wealth we are accumulating and proud of will remain behind when we die. Dust to dust, ash to ash as the Bible says. Let us not have this primitive accumulation. Please, do not bit more than you can chew. Let us share because all we want is good governance.

+HON. SEN. PHUTI: Thank you President of the Senate, yes I have understood what all the other previous Members mentioned about all the other things that have been discussed.  I am not one of those people who went to fight for the liberation struggle of the country.  However, listen to my ideas.   From what the previous Members mentioned, especially those who were speaking about these sanctions, some were mentioning sanctions and some were mentioning issues to do with corruption.

Therefore, I took these two words and I had to ask myself that in the previous few weeks, there were people who were fighting especially in the area of Matabeleland.  These people are dying, is it because of sanctions because these are the allegations that are coming out.

There are other people especially these illegal gold miners that are fighting each other; can we say this is because of sanctions?  I have also asked myself about these minerals that we are getting from these miners that can we say these minerals are being leaked out all because of sanctions?

Then we also had issues with doctors who are on strike and I have asked myself whether the strike is because of sanctions?  For me, if these sanctions are removed and say there is not even one individual who leaves the country to go and be treated outside the country, then I will really accept that indeed there are sanctions.  However, my question is for those people who are living the country going out for treatment, where are they getting this money from?

I have also asked myself about these people who are supposed to be getting their pension from NSSA who are not getting that money or they are getting peanuts from that. Is this because of sanctions as well?  Indeed, we agree that there are sanctions.  But, are these sanctions also having an effect on these ZUPCO buses and ZUPCO omnibuses we are

getting?

When I came to Parliament my salary shocked me.  I could afford to do anything that I wanted with my salary. Then I said let me just keep it and use it next month but after a week, I was left with something like US$100 after I converted it. I asked myself if this was because of sanctions. If sanctions come through the window into our houses, we do not need these sanctions.  If we get green money which is bond notes under sanctions, then it is really painful.

Tax payers’ money is being used to buy nice shoes for people that can be bought from oversees. Can you say this is all because of sanctions? We saw other Ministers who were claiming that certain monies were taken from them during the New Dispensation. When I came into Parliament and saw other people declaring that they had quite a number of wealth through money and the example of this individual is Chombo; I am asking myself if all this is because of sanctions. We were told as Members of Parliament that this money is going to be taken back but my questions is, where did this money go to because we were not even informed what really happened to that money.

I have mentioned that I used to get enough when I started as a Member of Parliament. Someone else came in with 2% levyand I guess those are sanctions. Currently, we just recently had a supplementary budget and still, it is not enough. My question is, where did this money go to? Has it been taken by these sanctions? Today, we printed our bond notes and today’s rate is saying US$1 is equivalent to Z$25 bond. People are running one after the other in the streets looking for money and some people are getting monies that you cannot get in the bank – new notes that when you get into a bank right now, you cannot get those notes in the form of RTGs or Bond notes.

There are some people who are getting US$ notes which are new and you wonder where they are getting those notes from. I am also asking myself – are these sanctions? I then come back to say as an individual, I thank the technology. One Member mentioned that in other instances, we are afraid to tell each other the truth, but this is a place where we really need to tell each other the truth. I have mentioned that people do not need to look at my birth certificate to really figure out when exactly I was born, but you just need to listen to my views and figure out how critical they are.

In this House, there are certain people that continue to protect their wealth but as I have mentioned that thanks a lot to the technology.  When I was looking at one headline, it was mentioning that SADC is together with Zimbabwe to fight these sanctions.  However, certain Members are saying that they are not going to take part in this fight against these sanctions that have been imposed on our country.

Mr. President Sir, my plea is that, yes we are complaining about these sanctions and one Member indicated that these sanctions came in during the Rhodesian era, however, they also came in thereafter.  And, now I am figuring out that bread which used to be $1 is now going for more than $15 and I am asking myself if this is as a result of the sanctions.  However Mr. President, with these few words, I thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHABUKA:  Thank you Mr. President.  I would

like to request you Mr. President to hand today’s Hansard to the President to hear all the grievances from the citizens of this country as they suggest the best way forward for this country.  Mr. President Sir, the President of this country must read today’s Hansard so that he will understand what we debate in this House.

Mr. President, you come from Manicaland where I come from and I respect you because you are the President of the Senate.  If you look at the situation in Manicaland, and the diamonds that are found there and all the other wealth that was found in Manicaland going to China, we should do something as a country and as leaders so that we know and realise benefits from the wealth and resources that we have.  In Manicaland, we do not have access to clean water in Dangamvura; people sleep on queues at boreholes whilst we have diamonds in Manicaland.  There is gold mining that takes place just next door.  Our children are sleeping in the bush and having sex there – let us chat the way forward without looking at who is causing the sanctions, whether it is MDC.  All these things have been said Mr. President but, I would like to draw your attention so that we should realise what is really happening.

If you look at Nyanyadzi where there is mining taking place, there is no tarred road but the thieves are busy exploiting our minerals but, the leadership or the Government is here in Zimbabwe looking without proffering a solution.  If you look at what is happening in Mancaland Mr. President as the leader, there are also the leaders in the political parties, what is happening in Mutare is a very sad situation.  There are no traffic lights working and where I stay as a Senator, I have to walk to get home because I have to leave the car a distant away yet we have diamonds, gold and many other valuable resources.  I confronted the Town Clerk and asked that if I was a ZANU PF Senator, would you not have graded the road for me but I was told that there are no graders available.

I said Mr. President I respect you because we stay together in Manicaland.  The problem in this country is not sanctions but, we need to unite and do all our things together.  If the problem is about political parties, why do we not call Chamisa and we discuss so that we proffer a solution.  We will not go to Heaven as leaders because we stay in hotels whilst people out there are suffering.  The country should be led with love so that we work together.  Let us not preach anything about sanctions whilst we are the thieves.  I thank you Mr. President.

HON. SEN. MBOHWA:  Thank you Mr. President.  I move that the debate which has been debated very seriously do now adjourn,

HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.

Motion put and agreed to

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 12^th November, 2019.

On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 12^th November, 2019.