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SENATE HANSARD 28 March 2017 26-43


Tuesday, 28th March, 2017

The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.





THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  I wish to inform the

House that there will be a Catholic Service tomorrow Wednesday, 29th March, 2017 at 11:45 a.m. in the Senate Chamber.  All Members who are Catholic and non-Catholic are invited.



AGREEMENT) BILL [H.B. 9, 2016]

First Order read:  Second Reading: ZEP-RE (Membership of

Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement) Bill [H.B. 9, 2016].


DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  Madam President, Hon.

Members will recall, Zimbabwe is a shareholder of the PTA Reinsurance Company (ZEP-RE), an intergovernmental reinsurance company with a local branch office.

The Government, through Treasury signed a Host Agreement with ZEP-RE in June 2013.  The Host Agreement provides among other things that the Government of Zimbabwe should grant Privileges and Immunities to ZEP-RE.  This is also in line with the provisions of

Article 40 of the Agreement establishing the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA).

In this regard, the ZEP-RE Bill before this august House seeks to confer legal status to the PTA Reinsurance Company.

Objectives of the Bill

The objectives of the Bill are as follows:

  1. To recognise ZEP-RE as a body corporate in Zimbabwe with international legal personality having power to acquire or dispose movable and immovable property.
  2. To confer privileges and immunities to ZEP-RE and its employees as outlined in the Host Agreement.
  3. To allow ZEP-RE to have the legal capacity required to perform its functions under the Preferential Trade Area (PTA)

Treaty, now known as the Common Market for Eastern and

Southern Africa.

Provision of the Bill

Article 1 of the Bill provides for legal capacity of ZEP-RE in Zimbabwe while Article 3 provides for the inviolability of its premises and archives as is accorded to an international financial institution.

Section 1 of Article 7 of the Bill seeks to confer privileges and immunities to ZEP-RE legal persona.

In addition, Articles 8 and 9 of the Bill also seek to confer

privileges, immunities and inviolability of residence of ZEP-RE directors, alternate directors and employees as provided for in the Host


Benefits of ZEP-RE operations in Zimbabwe.

The operations of ZEP-RE will bring economic benefits that include writing insurance business from the insurance market, improving the capacity of the local reinsurance business by bringing on board strong shareholders as well as downstream economic benefits associated with insurance business.

A robust insurance sector for Zimbabwe will contribute to sustained economic growth and improved financial sector performance.  Growth and development of the insurance industry will in turn create more businesses for ancillary service providers.

The operations of the reinsurance company in the country will also benefit the Government of Zimbabwe through a wider capital base for the subscription of prescribed assets.

It is against this background, Madam President, that I submit the

ZEP-RE Bill for consideration by this august House. I move that the Bill now be read a second time.

Motion put and agreed to.

Bill read a second time.

Committee stage:  With leave, forthwith.




House in Committee.

Clauses 1 to 4 put and agreed to.

Schedule 1, Article 1 to 15 put and agreed to.

House resumed.

Bill reported without amendments.

Third Reading:  With leave, forthwith.



AGREEMENT BILL, [H.B. 9, 2016]

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  Madam Speaker, I now move that the ZEP-RE Membership of Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement Bill be now read for the third time.

Motion put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time.




that Order of the Day, Number 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day, have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.




Third Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.

Question again proposed.


DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  I move that the debate do

not adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.



Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

Question again proposed.


DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  I move that the debate do

not adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.



         Fifth Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank you Madam President for

giving me this opportunity to debate on a motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Mawire.  We may dismiss it at our own peril in terms of safeguarding our livestock.  This is an important motion because it affects me.  I am going to talk about looking after of dogs.  If in the community we do not look after our dogs properly and disturb community members by eating their chickens or goats, peace will not prevail as bad blood will be felt by the neighbours, even to the extent that they will not be together when there is a funeral.

Dogs that are not vaccinated are a danger to people because they cause rabies and those that suffer from rabies ordinarily succumb to death as what happened in our communal area in Seke.  In urban centres we see dogs that are dead on the streets.  The decaying dogs pollute the air.  People should be urged to look after their dogs properly so that they will not be run over by motor vehicles.  They should either be caged and confined to the house and only released during the nights.  Dogs are very good for security at home.  If it is confined during the day and released during the night, thieves will not come because the dogs will alert us.

Dogs should be well looked after.

Let me move on to stray cattle and donkeys that cause accidents on the roads.  It is indeed correct that they contribute to accidents but my father always used to say that livestock are important, just like human beings.  I have observed that when people have a lot of livestock, they tend to ignore them.  We should look after our livestock properly because they are important.  If an ox or a donkey is on the road people may lose their lives because they may fail to break and hit into the cattle.

There is also a problem of people who have more than 30 or so dogs and these dogs are not properly fed.  You see them roaming all over the community.  They break into people’s homes because some of the people do not have proper security and they may be hurt by such behaviour.  Others are stubborn when called to come and see what the dog would have done; they ignore the message.  I urge that there should be a law that makes it difficult for people to have 30 or so dogs so that people do not simply have dogs that they do not look after.  This will prevent people from being attacked by rabid dogs and end up dying.

One should not have a kennel full of dogs but instead they should have a kraal full of cattle.  There should be a limitation to the number of dogs that one can keep as a means of security at a homestead. They should be well nourished.  Dogs should be looked after and I know that dogs behave very well; they listen just like a human being.  If there is a limit of a specific number, people can be able to look after their dogs.

Thank you Madam President.

*HON. SEN CHABUKA:  Thank you Madam President for

affording me the opportunity to add my voice on this debate that has caused the loss of lives on the roads.  I thank those that have debated before me, this is a good motion.  This motion helps us to secure our livelihoods as we travel either as motorists or as pedestrians. When I talk about donkeys, lions and elephants -  if there is a fence such wild animals cannot go on the roads.  We urge our people not to tamper with the fence that is there to protect livestock from straying onto the roads.  We know that there are certain areas along the Mutare and Bulawayo road where there are some settlements.  You even see people leaving their livestock on these roads and as a result a lot of people have lost their lives.  We urge the Government to expedite this issue of protecting animals on the roads.

A lot of people have lost limbs and cattle; if electrical fences are to be erected, elephants will not stray on the road.  If they are confined, it would enable people to travel safely on the road.  Times are hard, we are aware of it - but the Government should put in place border fences to restrain animals.  We love these animals but they should be well looked after and people should move freely, and those that travel at night should be able to see the road properly without these donkeys and cattle that one will quickly hit into due to reduced visibility on the road.  The boundary fences that were removed should be reinstated so as to safeguard the lives of the people.  We are wary of our tourists who may not be aware of such hazards posed by elephants along the Victoria Falls road.

A lot has already been said Mr. President and I am seconding this good motion so that we have our lives secured.  There are lions and elephants; they are a menace to the people.  There should be an electric fence to confine the zones of animals such as elephants and lions.  These will confine livestock from the road as well as wild lions.  I repeat, this is a good motion by Hon. Sen. Mawire and it helps us.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA:  Mr. President, I move that the

debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MASUKU:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.




         Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the Electoral Act to the Constitution.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA:  Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MASUKU:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.




Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the SADC Model law on eradicating Child Marriages.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA:  Mr. President, I move that the

debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MASUKU:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.



Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by All Members of Parliament.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI:  Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.




Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. TAWENGWA:  Mr. President, I move that the

debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. CHIMHINI:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.



Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s

low population.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. CHABUKA:  Thank you Mr. President for this opportunity to support the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka.   I want to thank him for his motion that we should have large families and we should multiply like the sands of the sea as mentioned in the Bible.  Indeed it is mentioned in the Bible that we should reproduce and replicate like the sands of the sea.  It is good if we were to look after the children and support them.  The reason why we have very few children these days is because things are generally not well, but it is a good thing to have a lot of children.  I also want to talk about the issue of the NonGovernmental Organisations (NGOs) which are said to cause people not to have a lot of children.  It is not because of NGOs, but the economic climate.

If one has 8 children, what will become of them if they pass at school, how do you pay their school fees?  We left our parents home to become mothers, but our economy does not allow us to have a lot of children.  We want God to intervene so that our industries can start running and our children will be employed.  Our husbands are still young, they also want to work.  They should be able to leave the house to go and work so that in the evening, we have a meal.  We look forward to having large families but at the moment we have nothing to give them.  The children that you see drinking toxic alcohol like the zed and the blues of this world have nothing meaningful to occupy themselves with.  Indeed some can be farmers, they can till the land and be able to sell, but we urge that there should be a resuscitation of the industry so that our children can go and work.

We were urged to be productive during the night so that we have children, but we have nothing to give our children.  We allow investors to come and open the industry.  We should not have stringent conditions.

The Mutare Board and Paper Mills Company is no longer running.  When investors come, let us ask for a less percentage and not the 51% and there should not be stringent measures because they tend to deter prospective investors.  Children assault their parents because they will be intoxicated by drugs and they are unemployed with nothing meaningful to do.  This is a good motion by Hon. Sen. Musaka, but we need to look at the macro and micro environment so that we bring children into a world that is conducive.  I thank you Mr. President.

HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President.  I would like to express my gratitude to Hon. Sen. Musaka and the seconder of the motion.  It is a very good motion.  I am privately informed and convinced that by the time this motion is wound up, the Hon. Senator and others who have supported this motion would have added a woman or two to their fold and that will definitely increase our population.  The female Hon. Senators will definitely invite other females one or two to the lot of their husbands.  So, we can be very grateful because as I am speaking, I can hear somebody groaning with joy on my left that she is going to do exactly that.  So, thank you very much Hon. Sen. Musaka.

I think one thing that we have to take into account is that, there is a degree of correctness in saying that a large population can help us with some of our economic challenges.   It will mean that we will have a good local market where produce from factories operating or resuscitated can be sold.  I think one problem that we have to deal with from the outset is the mindset or the mentality where our people, industrialists, traders and entrepreneurs are always thinking that they produce services and goods for the sake of exporting.  We should have a mindset which says that a lot of the majority of whatever we are going to produce should be sold locally and then we can only export the little remainder.

Unfortunately, if you read our press and listen to the electronic media like radio and television, what you get from our industrialists is that, they think that export is priority and the local is just another little thing to add to whatever can be generated from exporting.  I think that should change and the reverse should be correct so that whatever is produced, the bulk of it can be sold locally.  If we did that, it means that the population can really support our economy.

The other thing that we need to think about when we talk about big populations is the way we live in terms of our settlement pattern, the way we build our homes.  A lot of us are used to life in the rural home and if we do not have a hut at home, the assumption is that we are not Zimbabwean, whereas I think that what should be happening is that if you really want to develop and make a great lip forward economically, we should think seriously about urbanisation and urbanise the whole country.  Even the issue of accommodation can be solved by building high rise accommodation or high rise flats with three to five bed-roomed flats as long as you will be building upwards and not horizontally or sideways.  The moment you try to build sideways, it means that you will be eating into a lot of space, which could be used for other things like game-parks and agricultural farming.  So, we need to change our mindset in terms of the settlement pattern that we want for this country so that we can build a thousand floors upwards.  In so doing, we will also be creating employment for local people who can spend the money that they earn from those construction projects on items produced locally.

I think it is a good idea but we also have to change certain ways in which we think in respect to our own lives.  We have to believe that the majority of the people, more than 90% to 99% have to live in urban areas and we leave the rest of the land to be worked on by specialised farmers who will be responsible for feeding those in urban areas.  Some of the land also needs to lay fallow because you cannot be using every piece of land as if the world is going to end at 12 midnight.  We have to leave some land idle for the sake of future generations, not only from farming, but from mining.  You cannot be mining every mineral claim or gold that we have in order to satisfy today’s needs, something has to be left for generations to come for posterity. That is very important.

The other thing is that people have to realise that when we talk of family planning, I think it is a strange idea because it is one of those things where you find the principle of one size fits all jacket.  You cannot have any jacket that is worn by someone who is six metres tall, 50cm tall and another who is 1.5 metres tall, I think that is not correct.  It cannot be correct that family planning ideas should be spread all over the world in the same way that populations are controlled.  If you go to islands like Papua New Gunea and the Pacific Islands, populations have to be controlled and in Zimbabwe the same way.  You also visit big countries like Algeria, Zaire and Russia, populations also need to be controlled there.  There must be something wrong with that argument.  I think one of the real reasons why that is done is that somebody is trying to create a market for those people who manufacture family planning tablets and other medication.  If you create that big market, a lot of people will be buying those things, either themselves or through some other donor funded programmes or sponsors but the end product will be that somebody will be making a lot of money.  Somebody somewhere maybe not in Zimbabwe because I suppose most of those tablets are not made in Zimbabwe or did not originate in Zimbabwe. My understanding is that the person who originates something gets paid for the patent so even if you produce it locally using someone’s patent, I suspect that somebody will be benefiting behind there because they originated the idea of the particular medication that you are producing locally.

For instance, because of that, in Zimbabwe there was a time when we were getting a rebate for having up to four children – father and mother plus four children but now that has been scrapped because the local family planning organisation campaigned against it because they felt Government was undoing their efforts by de-campaigning them by encouraging people to get rebates for what they perceived to be large families of parents plus four children or four dependents.  So, I think we can also look at the family planning mechanism as a problem in itself because it raises suspicions as to the real motive behind prescribing the same medication for every geographical population situation.  I think something can be done about that and it may not have to be trusted that it is fine.  In other words, I am agreeing with Hon. Sen. Musaka’s proposition that maybe we should consider raising our population to some level which can then support us in terms of economics and what we produce locally first being sold to our people and the remainder being sold to foreigners in the form of exports.  That is how some currencies are now considered to be important forex.  We always cry about foreign currency yet we do not want our currency to be foreign currency in other places.  There must be something wrong with that reasoning.  We only want to be assistants or deputies and not become the real leaders of the situation ourselves.  We can change that I think.

There is also the issue of a large population, the way in which we manage ourselves, our systems and the way in which we reason – that I have already alluded to, is very important in taking us forward economically.  There are other places with smaller populations to Zimbabwe who are doing very well like the company of Nokia phones from Finland.  It originated from a country which has less than 10 million people, if I am not mistaken and they are doing very well with Nokia as everybody likes Nokia all over the world.  I understand they have now bought back their right to be producing those phones; most of us will be rushing to get a Nokia phone.  You can also think of Singapore which is referred to as a city state with a small population of about two million people yet it is doing very well economically.

So some of these things depend on the way in which you mould your people’s mindsets, gear up yourself to certain tasks and things; doing certain things and not doing other things that might destroy your economic outlook.  I think it is good that we have a good population, can have it and that Hon. Sen. Musaka and all the women who have supported it are going to be invited, taking things for their spouses before the motion is wound up.  I think it is really good that we set our mindsets in the correct positions and places so that whatever we do results in what we want to achieve.  I thank you Mr. President. – [HON.

SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-

*HON. SEN. MALULEKE:  Thank you Mr. President for

affording me the opportunity to add a few words to the motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Musaka and his seconder.

This is an industry that never fails as people pass away year in year out because every year you find there are new children enrolling countrywide meaning that some people are reproducing.  Therefore something happened in our age group which saw the advent of family planning.  A long time ago, our mothers used to plan their families.  When I became knowledgeable, I could see that my family consisted of eight of us spaced by four years.  So, it is possible that the gaps that are left due to attrition are covered by others.

We then went to the hospitals and were informed of family planning. There were four methods of family planning consisting of Depo-Provera; injectables, the loop and the pill and all these are foreign bodies.  All these family planning methods are detrimental to ourselves as we are giving birth to children with several disabilities and this was not so in the past.  This has taken us back.

I went to Beijing, China and in each town, there are about 20 million people.  There are very few of us here.  We should encourage our children who are still in the child-bearing ages to produce more children – we want more children.  My father used to take good care of us yet we would walk with naked bellies and drink cattle milk.  We would pound our millet and this year God has given us good rains and we are going to feast because there is no hunger.  We have a lot of maize, groundnuts, crickets; grasshoppers and so forth and so on.  Young couples should reproduce and make up for those who have left this planet.  We will make a follow up if you do not listen to us.

I visited one of our clinics in Shangani.  They are well organised in terms of this issue and a lot of young mothers were attending family planning sessions.  I enquired as to the number of children they had and their children ranged from one to two.  I asked them whether they were aware of what exactly it meant and explained that they would stop conceiving as others were opting for operations so that they stop reproducing completely.  As I was busy addressing the young women, one of the husbands arrived from South Africa and rushed to the clinic as he was perturbed as to why she was engaging in family planning methods during his absence.  It does not kill to give birth; you should agree with your husband and give birth.  You should not engage in family planning methods so as to cheat on your husband who is in Johannesburg.  I do not advocate for people who engage in family planning in order to cheat on their partners.

Thank you very much Hon. Sen. Musaka.  Why is it that he is not here?  He did very well in tabling this motion.  We are the midwives and thus should educate our children to reproduce more children because teachers will be born out of those.  I have six graduate children. God helped me to have doctors, nurses, teachers and lawyers. From where I come from, the Shangani land, even here because the children should be produced because there will be donors that will assist us, if you have two or more.  If I have two of each children, how many will you have? I had

16 children because some of them were twins, what is wrong with that.

I asked those in Beijing, China what would happen if a person has quadruplets babies, they said they will accept that.  So, we should not give the economy as an excuse.  We should farm our land and export our beans, rappoko, cow peas and our Government will have money.  If the Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. Mabuwa, was here, we would tell her that we want to process our dried vegetables so that they could be exported by women so that we can raise our economy and bear children.  We will be able to look after our families if we give birth to a lot of children and work hard.  Traditional chiefs, here is the duty for you, indeed if you go to the clinics and then you will see what an anathema, tell them that we encourage them to give more birth and that the Government will assist them in looking after these children.  Why bar the bringing in to this world of new   teachers and doctors because we have taken contraceptives?  I disagree with that issue, Mr. President.

I urge that we have more children so that we have more people in Zimbabwe.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you for affording me the

opportunity in support of such an important nation building motion raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka and the seconder.  I support what has already been said by Hon. Members who supported that we should have more children.  As has been said by the previous speaker, a long time ago when we used to live with our parents, we did not have the same food stuffs that we are now having.  We had seasonal foods to feed eight to ten children; you would rarely find any weaklings.  Nowadays, these chronic diseases are on the increase.  During our time we would eat maheu, cow peas, round nuts and our children would go to school bare footed.

However, not even a single women is suckling in this Senate Chamber, it is not a good thing – [Laughter.]-  We would want a situation whereby women would excuse themselves changing baby dippers during a Committee workshop or public hearing but instead Hon. Senators will be busy sleeping because of age.  Let us encourage our children to have more children; there is no problem with that issue. We will create employment on our own.  If our children are educated, some will become builders and build schools, dam walls, and clinics thereby creating our own employment.  We should not be afraid of giving birth.

We are the owners of our own destiny.  As a grandmother you should have six children on one arm and four on the other, it is good and it shows that your family is growing up.  Why do you build an eight bed roomed house where you live alone with your husband.  Once your daughter has been married, you remain with the 12 bed roomed house, what aid is to? Let us build homes and have several children that will be happy with these houses that we are building in Borrowdale.  Each room for every house in Borrowdale should be occupied.  I urge people to have more children, let us teach our children not to plan these families, there should not be these child spacing.  If you agree with your husband, set your target that you have 10 children and every year, you will have a child. In ten years you will have 10 children.  Once the 10 children are born, the mother becomes fit and she will be now looking after the 10 children and she becomes sweeter.  This is a good motion, let us have more children.  Let us not be afraid, there are several ways in which to look after these children.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do

now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March, 2017.




Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second

Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on

Early Child Marriages

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th March 2017.




THE HON. DEPUTY PRESDIENT OF SENATE: There will be a caucus meeting for ZANU PF Members of Parliament on Wednesday, 29th March, 2017 at ZANU PF Headquarters at 1000 hours.  You will be advised of the agenda there, please attend and be punctual.  Thank you.

On the motion of the HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA seconded by HON. SEN. MAKONE the Senate adjourned at Twenty minutes to Four o’clock p.m.

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