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Thursday, 29th September, 2022

The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.



THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Today, we only have

Hon. Edgar Moyo - Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Michael Madiro - Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Ruth Mavhungu-Maboyi - Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and Hon. David Musabayana - Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

I do not know what we can do because we have complained every week for us to have Cabinet Ministers in this House so that we are able to ask questions. It seems once they attend the National Assembly, they think that is all, they are done.

The Hon. President of Senate having been briefed

Someone is telling me that Cabinet Ministers are in Cabinet but we cannot excuse them because some of them have got deputy ministers who can attend.



THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have the following apologies from the  Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care, Hon. C. D. G. Chiwenga; Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage, Hon. Kazembe Kazembe;  Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Felix Tapiwa Mhona; Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, Hon. Prof. Amon Murwira; Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Dr. Anxious Jongwe Masuka; Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. Sekesai Irene Kanhutu-Nzenza, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Prof. Paul Mavima, Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. July G. Moyo; Minister of Mines and Mining Development, Hon.Winston Chitando; Minister of State for Midlands Province, Hon. Larry Mavima and Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. Rajeshkumar Modi.

I do not think it is important to send in an apology because some of them have never been in this House, like Hon. Chitando, Hon. July Moyo and Hon. Masuka. I do not know whether they know there is this Senate.

*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Madam President, I do not know if among us there is a Leader of the House.

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: There is no Leader of the House.

*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: I am going to direct my question to the Minister of Transport. Our roads, especially the one that goes to Chirundu among others, have got many potholes in the middle of the road. These potholes are very big. Sometime back, they were bringing in Bitumen Company to fill in these potholes. Do they have any policy or programme in place to help us to fill in these potholes on the roads before the start of the rain season?

*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Madam President. Let me thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu for the pertinent question. His question shows that the Chief stays in the rural areas and he also observes challenges being faced by people in that area especially those who are using Chirundu Road.  On the issue of potholes, it is true that many parts of the Chirundu Road have got potholes. Madam President, you remember that the Government started emergency road rehabilitation programme which include paying attention to the potholes especially the main roads like Chirundu Road. Due to the number of vehicles which use Chirundu Road, it causes the potholes to open up again because of the flow of traffic in that road. As Government, we embarked on the Emergency Road Rehabilitation. We have filled in the potholes but during a short space of time, the potholes open up again. Therefore, Government is expected to do maintenance by filling in these potholes so that the roads can be passable.  The Government policy on Chirundu Road, it is a project which includes Beitbridge to Harare and then Harare to Chirundu Road but you know that Government has done a lot. The first phase of rehabilitation is Beitbridge to Chirundu and we have managed to rehabilitate over 380 kilometers on Beitbridge to Harare Road. Harare to Chirundu is the second phase but because of lack of resources, the second phase has not taken off properly and we accept what Chief Chundu said that we must put attention to the potholes and fill them in because of the importance of the roads and the economy of the country.

*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: He did not explain well when the programme for Harare to Chirundu Road is going to start and are there any takers of the tenders? There is a lot of traffic on that road which includes trucks and other small cars.

*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think that is now a specific question as you are now referring to Chirundu Road in particular.

*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Why has the issue of the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme stopped? We do not see much activity, so I wanted to understand what is hindering the Government from continuing with the programme?

HON. MADIRO: It is true that the initial question was specific and needed research. I had already stated that Harare to Chirundu is part of the second phase of the Beitbridge to Chirundu Road but because of lack of resources, and we all know that there are many roads which are being rehabilitated in the country; we are able to rehabilitate our roads through mobilisation of the resources locally. As Zimbabwe, we have the problem of illegal sanctions which have been imposed on our country. We do not have the capacity to look for investors or other monies from other countries because the issue of road rehabilitation is a very big project which needs more resources. We are looking into it as Government to see if there are any other ways or avenues to mobilise resources to use for road rehabilitation rather than waiting for Treasury only.

You see that in the past days, Government was engaging in consultations with other organisations like the African Development Bank looking for ways in which we can work together under private-public-partnership so that those who have their money can come and invest in the country, and also see if the road has the capacity to pay back the money. The process of negotiation takes time, so we are not able to give timelines but as Government, we are looking into that issue so that it can be resolved.

*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I also asked that the activities which were happening concerning the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme are low, what is the problem with the Government?

*HON. MADIRO: The problem is due to lack of resources so that we can award tenders to contractors and contractors need money to buy materials for the rehabilitation programme. Government in most cases reviews the work being done to see if we have enough money and resources. Right now, the Government is running around to mobilise resources to give contractors so that they can proceed with their work. The project did not stop but it is only the issue of prioritisation and matching the revenue to expenditure so that the projects can go forward. The rehabilitation programme must continue before the onset of the rain season.

*HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question is directed to the Minister of Education. This country has got a problem of hunger in areas such as Matebeleland North and South to the extent that some children are failing to go to school due to hunger. There are school children who end up fainting while at school because of hunger. Is the Government aware of this problem which is being faced by schools and if so, what is the Government doing to alleviate this problem?

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Yes, it is true that there is general hunger in the areas that the Hon. Senator has cited and that some children are going to school hungry. That is true and we know that. In the current budget that is running, we made some procurement because the School Feeding Programme was part of the provisions. Some procurements were made; however the supplies have been erratic. There are schools where school feeding is taking place and there are some where it is not taking place.  We then, through the Supplementary Budget, went on to try and procure more supplies.  However, as we all know, there were interventions on procurements that have sort of slowed down the process of procuring.

          We have been able to talk to the sister ministries, the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare on the same and have been assured that beginning 1st October, food distribution is going to begin.  I have no authority to say more than that but this is the response that we were able to get; so those communities where hunger is prevalent are assisted.  We are currently doing a Budget Strategy document for the Ministry and one of the key pillars is the issue of school feeding which we think is central in ensuring that children come to school and consistently come to school, concentrate and do better in their learning programmes.  We hope that going forward, there is going to be a strengthening of that budget provision and also the timeous releases so that we are able to procure food.  In brief, that is what I can say we are doing and that we are aware of the difficulties that our children are going through.  Thank you.

+HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI:  Thank you Hon. Madam President.  Hon. Minister, you said that you are facing constraints to buy food to feed school children.  Some children are not getting food and others are being chased from schools due to failure to pay school fees, especially children whose parents are teachers.  You have not paid fees for teachers’ children; part of the fees that was supposed to be disbursed from Government has not been paid.  What measures are in place in terms of commitment on the budget on food and your commitment to teachers?

          HON. E. MOYO:  Thank you very much Madam President and thank you very much to the Hon. Senator for the follow-up question.  The question requires that we indicate the specific difficulties that we experienced in procurement.  One of the major difficulties has been the centralised procurement system where some companies have been able to win big tenders and failed to supply; that is one of the procurement hurdles that we have come through.  Then the other problem is that through the centralised system, distribution becomes a very big overhead factor when procurement has been done and these supplies are supposed to be distributed.  It becomes difficult.

          What we have done is that, we have come up with a policy of decentralised procurement.  Initially when school feeding started, procurement was decentralised so that it gets to all provinces but then some issues were cited.  The issue was then taken back to centralization.  We realised that this centralization has more problems than the decentralised system and we would rather work on the problems that we were facing with the decentralised system than to centralize; that is the route we are going.

          On the teachers’ children who are being sent home, I think that is a travesty of what the policy stipulates.  Anyone whose fees is supposed to be paid by Government, like BEAM and this particular provision that you cited, those children are not supposed to be sent away from school.  All our teachers know that and it would be very interesting to know the specific schools that are doing that so that we make follow-up investigations.  Those people will be charged for misconduct because that is against the policy that all of us know about.  We would very much request that Hon. Members alert us to that kind of behaviour by our officers so that corrective measures are taken.  Thank you.

          HON. SEN. KAMBIZI:  Thank you Madam President.  My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, with particular reference to air transport and it is under National Strategic Development Goal One (NSDG1).  The main objective is to have a reliable, safe and world class air transport infrastructure and services.  The target being to increase the cargo carrying capacity from the current 40 million tonnes to 43 million tonnes by 2025; the number of passengers to be uplifted to also increase from 0.5 million to two million by 2025.

          Madam President, may the Hon. Minister apprise this Hon. House on the strategies that the Government via his Ministry is or will implement to ensure that the set target in NSDG1 is met by 2025?  I thank you.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO):  Thank you very much Madam President.  Let me take this opportunity to thank Hon. Sen. Kambizi for the very important question with regard to the strategies in place to revamp air Zimbabwe.   First of all, it is true that any country is worth its salt when they have a national carrier of its own.  However, it is also important to mention that air business is a high competitive business and requires serious capitalisation.

          As a strategy Madam President, the Ministry and Government have started dealing with governance issues.  As you will recall Madam President, we had an Administrator who, following the Grant Thornton Report, was appointed to come up with a strategy of how Air Zimbabwe can be resuscitated.  The Administrator completed that assignment in June this year.  Following completion of that assignment, Government through the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, appointed an interim board to come up with the strategy.  The board was in office up to last month.

          However, in the intervening period, the Government was identifying Zimbabwean young men and women with the requisite skills and experience to craft a strategy to make sure that we are competitive and we recapitalize Air Zimbabwe.  We have done so as Government.  We have appointed a team of young men and women with clear international experience who have started to put together and craft a strategy to make sure that as a country we have a competitive air aviation that is able to compete with the best of the world. 

          Besides that point Madam President, you are aware that during the COVID-19 period, we grounded much of our equipment, including the Boeing 77-200 series which are in preservation at Air Zimbabwe.  The youngsters who are in place are investigating the viability of converting those Boeing 77 from passenger to cargo because there is a clear business case to increase our cargo capacity because that is where the business is and that is also in tandem with Zimbabwe is open for business, NDS1 where you can see that agriculture industry particularly, horticulture is picking up.

 Government have put so much money now to make sure that the horticultural industry is capacitated and that is a niche as far as Air Zimbabwe is concerned in terms of carrying cargo and to ensure that we are competitive in the industry.  I want to say for now that the team work put in place is busy crafting strategies to make sure that Air Zimbabwe is viable.  I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI: Thank you Madam President for awarding me this opportunity. I want to direct my question to the Minister of Home Affairs.  What is the Government policy on the issue of transport for police officers?  They travel long distances to go and arrest criminals who in most cases have got their own cars and the perpetrator ends up fleeing away before the police officer reaches the destination.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI): Thank you Mr. President Sir.  I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Ngezi for raising a pertinent question.  It is true that the police officers are travelling distances to arrest a criminal who owns a car whilst they are travelling on foot which then becomes a very difficult situation.  When they arrive at the scene, they are the ones who are now given a lift by the perpetrator.

          However, we have put a budget aside especially on the supplementary budget, the Minister of Finance is going to look into our plight in order that we may increase the fleet of vehicles at hand.  At the moment, we have cars but they are very few and some are not working. 

About three months ago, His Excellency started a programme of giving police officers cars.  In most areas, police officers did not have cars; probably the whole of Zimbabwe, we were facing a lot of challenges.  We are hoping that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is going to allocate us money so that we can buy cars for our police force.

          The cars are not only going to be used to go and attend criminals with minor offenses but also other major crimes like murder.  At the moment, we are failing to attend to reported matters in time because of lack of transport.  If we are allocated the money to buy the cars, we are going to give first priority to the rural areas where they travel by foot for very long distances.

          HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I also want to thank the Deputy Minister who answered the question. This issue is not new.  It is a question which is asked every year and the response we get is that the ministry is going to ask for money yet nothing happens. I think we need information that which areas need money in the police sector. There are issues of priority and there are other people who are in Government who have cars but they do not deserve.

          In Masvingo district, people can travel for 100km by foot especially the police officers, so at least a station must have a car. I want the Minister to answer why a station does not have a car when there is a distance of 100 km from one station to another?

          *HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI: Thank you Mr. President, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira.  Yes, it is true that there are other police stations which do not have cars but I was not aware of the distance.   If it is 100 km, it is too much.  So we are going to sit down and look into the issue and see how best we can help.  Yes, we request for money from the Ministry of Finance but the Ministry of Home Affairs is very big.  If we are talking about the Ministry of Home Affairs, we are talking about the whole of Zimbabwe.  In some cases, the police officers in those stations are given cars and some of the police officer end up abusing these vehicles.  However, we are going to look into the issue and see which police stations do not have cars at all.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Education.  Does Government policy allow children who are assisted through Presidential Scholarship to learn in this country in our local universities, if they do not want to travel overseas?

*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. MACHINGURA): Thank you Hon. Senator for the pertinent question. The purpose of sending children to universities locally under the Second Republic -  right now we do not have knowledge in terms of skills to help us improve the economy of the country.  On the issue of development of our education, it was developed from 3.0 to 5.0 so that we can have skills focusing on our natural resources in the country.

The issue of lack of industries and commodities can only be solved if our people are able to manufacture some of the products we desire in our own country locally. That is our approach that we are using on this issue.  We also need to know what other countries are doing so, so that we will be able to learn what they are doing and bring the knowledge in the country and bring development. So if we combine the knowledge from other countries and the local knowledge, it will help very much in the development of the country. 

It is very pertinent to have children who go and learn in different countries.  There are other countries in Europe, Asia and Russia which are friends of Zimbabwe and they offer us scholarships.  Universities can request students who want to study medicine or engineering, among other degrees. When our country is offered opportunities, we sit as Government and see if we can send our children there.  We also look at what is going to be beneficial to us if the students go there? Most of the scholarships come through Government which we call Presidential Scholarship.  There are others who cannot be eligible for scholarship but they want their children to go and learn in other countries.  As a country, we also receive students from other countries who want to learn in Zimbabwe; we have students from Botswana, Namibia who come to learn in Zimbabwe.

We will have to sit and decide on whether we can have a university in Zimbabwe that can work together with other universities in other countries where they can do exchange programmes amongst students where Russian students can come to learn in Zimbabwe and Zimbabwean students go to Russia.  The purpose of these programmes is to send children to go and acquire skills that will help Zimbabwe.

Right now we are focusing on Vision 2030 where we are expecting the upliftment of each and every Zimbabwean to middle income class.

*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. KAMBIZI): Before you do your supplementary question, I would like to inform the Senate that we have been joined by Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo, Minister of State for Presidential Affairs in Charge of Implementation and Monitoring.

*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. President, the Minister has answered very well on the issue of scholarships.  We even want more countries to assist us with scholarships so that we can send more children.  We have students who want to learn locally but they do not have fees.  We have very bright students with 15 to 28 points. We must come up with policies or local scholarships; we have to look into this.

The other issue that worries me is that education must be affordable to everyone.  If we are able to achieve that, we will develop on human capital. If education remains expensive, we will remain a classical society. 

This week on Monday, I was in Morocco and I gave a public lecture at the university.  They said that the university has 90 000 students and they said 30 000 students do not pay fees.   Hence we know that economies are different, here we cannot be able to offer free education but my plea is that school fees must be affordable to everyone.

*HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you Hon. President.  The words spoken by Hon. Chief Charumbira are very pertinent and very true.  Our President, His Excellency Cde. Mnangagwa said we do not want to leave anyone behind.  As a Ministry also, we say we do not want to leave people behind because they are not able to pay fees.  Maybe children whom we leave behind because they cannot afford fees are the brightest and probably they are the ones who will add more value to the country in future.  You hear most of the time when His Excellency is speaking, he always emphasises on the issue of production.  I know we cannot come to Parliament and say let us have free education, it is not possible.  Our GDP is slightly lacking, and the only immediate solution was to introduce Education 5.0.  I do not think we are going to have problems with everyone going to school for free. I agree that in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, there is an issue that is being worked on for education to be free at primary level. It is going to be implemented in stages, meaning that the Government is committed to the issue of free education. Mr. President, as Government, we are saying there is no child who is going to fail to go to school because of lack of school fees. The first stage is provision of students’ loans through the ZIMDEF which is under the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education. There are funds deposited at CBZ and the forms were at CBZ and different universities so that students who are in need would go and apply for the loans.  We have agreed that conditions for the loans are a little bit difficult because they want guarantee that the borrower is going to return the money. There is need to have a relook into it.

The second issue is of students who are at universities. There is the Education 5.0 where learners, whilst they are learning, they will be engaged in other projects and involved in production. We also introduced a WorkForFees Programme. Whilst students are learning and doing production, they get paid. The money which they are being paid is directed to their school fees. At our universities, we have put a policy that no one is going to be chased away because of lack of payment of school fees. The student, the parents and the university administration must sit down and come up with the payment plan. Those are ways to try and reduce challenges on the issue of school fees and children are given an opportunity to attend lectures wholeheartedly focussing on production and not focusing on school fees.

We appreciate the contribution by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira that education must be for free. You are speaking about the issue of scholarships which are awarded to students going outside the country. There are some situations when Government send students to other countries under Government’s financing so that we will be able to source the knowledge which we do not have locally. For example, our country would want to situate a satellite in the orbit so that when we go into space, we can access the information which we need. We also have the department of ZimSat-1 which is going to focus on the issue of space technology. We did not have students or people who were able to work with satellites, hence the country sent four students to Japan to learn about satellites so that we will be able to send the satellites into orbit.

Very soon you are going to hear about the launch of the project. We do have scholarships which are going to be offered to students to go and learn outside the country but we will be focusing on the areas which are lacking in terms of the skills that  we do not have locally. We really need those skills for the development of the nation. Sometimes the country sacrifices so that we get knowledge from other countries for the scholarships which must be awarded locally to people who are patriotic to the country and who understand that the country is built by its people.

We do not have many years before we have scholarships for locals, for example having Dr. Chamunorwa focusing on heart specialist students’ scholarships. Most of the scholarship names out there are people from those countries who dedicated their monies in different trustees, whether they are alive or dead. Those monies will be used for the education assistance of people. I believe that as locals, we are going to implement such ideas so that we build our country. I thank you Mr. President Sir. 

+HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. R. Maboyi. What is Government policy regarding police officers who are working from Fort Thuli? This police station has no electricity and even a fence. It is dilapidated but there are police officers operating from this station. I thank you.

+THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am not very conversant with Ndebele but I am not too sure that is a policy question. To me, it appears that you are asking a question on a particular police station but I could be wrong. Minister, obviously you comprehended that question.

+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI): Thank you Mr. President, and thank you Hon. Sen. Mkhwebu. Yes, it is true. We will go back to the challenges that are being faced by police officers. They are not the only ones who are working from such dilapidated areas. Even if you are to get there, you will also be surprised how people are managing to operate from such dilapidated areas but we continue to acknowledge their great job. There is no electricity, no fence and animals can even invade this police station. We continue to ask for increased allocation of funds to police each time we go to the Ministry of Finance. They end up thinking that we are problematic but it is because we are covering the whole country. This police station is within my constituency.  Therefore, I will need to talk to other people that I operate with so that police officers operating from this camp can really feel at work. It is not the only one but there are so many. There is Shashi Police Station especially around the border lying areas. We have Shashi and Mulambapele, it is difficult but we will definitely try.

Time for Questions Without Notice interrupted by the THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in Terms of Standing Order No. 67

HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I move that Question Time be extended by 20 minutes.

HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.                                                      

Motion put and agreed to.

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Question Time is extended by 15 minutes.

HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. It is understood that Zimbabwe is under the ZIDERA sanctions and it has caused enough pain and suffering in Zimbabwe. The voice has been made louder than Zimbabwe itself because even African leaders have also called for their removal. Now, it seems like the sanction imposers are not moved at all by what we are doing. What is the Government practically doing to ensure that sanctions are removed because I do not think that the noise alone would make the sanction imposers remove them because the more noise we make, the happier they become because they believe that we are actually feeling the pain and the pinch.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. MUSABAYANA): Thank you for raising a very important question which is of national importance. It is true that sanctions have caused serious suffering to the Zimbabwean citizenry, the poor and rich alike. It is also important to understand that these sanctions are illegal as they were imposed illegally on Zimbabwe. They were not sanctioned, accepted or approved by the UN. These economic sanctions are a challenge because they have put barricades to the economy. All our credit lines have been stopped, especially international credit lines because of the economic sanctions. For you to transact or trade on the global platform, you have to be on the SWIFT platform and that SWIFT platform unfortunately, the benefactors are the illegal imposers of the economic sanctions, the WEST.

So, as a Government, our leader His Excellency Dr. E.D Mnangagwa has come up with a number of philosophies or approaches to deal with economic sanctions. Zimbabwe is Open for Business is a mantra and a philosophy that has created pathways to reach out to the international economy including those nations that have illegally imposed sanctions on Zimbabwe, like America for example. You have realised that the American business people have started coming to do business with Zimbabwe. A year or two ago, we saw the John Deere facility. Just a few days ago, the John Deere also got a US$50 million facility for tractors and combine harvesters showing that those pathways that His Excellency Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa eventually opened up and we are starting to trade with some of the business people in America.

Recently, we have had the resuscitation of the Batoka Gorge Hydro Electric Programme. Again, you have American investors in this programme in partnership with Chinese investors showing that in terms of the economic front we are winning. Many other billion dollar deals are coming through the appetite that has been created by H.E. the President to the American investors. That is another level or stage of dealing with economic sanctions.

Another level that the Government has chosen is the platform of dialogue. We started with the EU dialogue and you saw it progressed. We had about three inter-ministerial dialogues at ministerial level. That engagement yielded positive results resulting in the removal of most of the sanctions that we imposed on individuals and companies except the defence industry which is still on those sanctions. So, we are now coming up on a similar programme, I may not be able to unveil it now because it has not been approved through Cabinet, where we want to formally engage the Americans on the issue of economic sanctions.  We continue to talk and engage them formally at various platforms and we are happy with the progress, especially on engaging the West on the illegal economic sanctions they imposed on us.  I submit Hon. President Sir.

          HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA:  Thank you Mr. President. Hon. Minister, just probably to be elegant and say, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, thank you for all the good work.  Can we also be a player as Parliament?  I know, in terms of protocol and other procedures, only the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade can deal with foreign institutions.  Can Parliament of Zimbabwe write a letter to thank those Presidents at the recent United Nations Assembly who spoke in support of Zimbabwe on sanctions and called for the removal of sanctions, for example the President of Kenya, Ruto; South Africa, and the full list?

          It is a new style because I know you always talk to them.  Can Parliament of Zimbabwe Members of Parliament and Senators also write to thank those Heads of State?  It makes better blending than only you all the time; we can help you.  Thank you.

          HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Hon. President.  I also want to thank the Hon. President of the Pan-Africa Parliament, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira who is also the President of the Chiefs’ Council of Zimbabwe.  Hon. President, we all understand that the Government has three arms or pillars, that is the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary.  I am also sure that we are aware that His Excellency the President is also part of Parliament, Head of State and Chief Diplomat.  Whatever we do as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, we implement and get guidance from his office.

          So, I cannot specifically give a nod to say, Parliament can go ahead as an institution to write thanking those Heads of State.  Although it is a noble idea, I think we still go through the normal channel of getting approval from the Head of State because the optics have an analysis of having different arms of Government thanking different Presidents of governments for whatever they have done.  When we see those Heads of State, governments or different institutions presenting the case for Zimbabwe at such important fora, it is also testimony that behind the scenes, your President Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa was having sleepless nights to lobby and ensure that our voice is heard as Africa and other institutions to support us.  So, we stand guided by his office that we will go ahead and thank the Heads of State.

          I support on Twitter and individuals are allowed also to forward accolades and say all the good things to  those who supported our Government and the cause of Zimbabwe on the international platform.  I submit Hon. President.

          HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA:  Clarification!  Clarification!  This Minister is very intelligent Mr. President.  Mr. President, let me sharpen in two words.  Parliament of Zimbabwe will write to the Speaker of Kenya; that would be proper to thank the President of Kenya.  So the Speaker of Parliament would then say to their President, you are being thanked through our Parliament; it works.  Thank you very much.

          *HON. SEN. CHINAKE:  Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity.  My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. Mr. President, in this country we have motorists who always violate traffic regulations even if you go to Binga.  Hon. Minister, my plea is, if only you could give traffic offence tickets for motorists to pay fines.  Some of them actually drive on pavements that pedestrians use, so if you fine them, you would make a lot of money.  My question is; why can you not ask all the police force in stations to ensure that they arrest those who violate traffic regulations?  I thank you.

          THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Hon. Minister, did you understand the question?

          *THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI):  No, I did not quite understand the question.  I heard that motorists are violating traffic rules but did not get the question.

          THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  The issue that was raised by Hon. Sen. Chinake is that there is rampant lawlessness on the roads and if you were to make sure that every police station has fine books to penalise those people perhaps you could raise enough money to buy new cars.  However, that presupposes that you are allowed by Treasury to retain that money. The Hon. Member may not be clear that when you fine offenders, the money does not automatically go to your Ministry – [HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI: Thank you.] – I think part of it and not all of it goes to Treasury and you would have to agree with Treasury that you can retain a portion of it.  So, it may be an academic question.  Would you want to comment on that?

          *HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI:  Yes, Mr. President Sir.  It is a fact that traffic regulations are being violated and people are breaking the laws.  Even if we ticket them for fines, after a few meters having paid the fine, they continue to flout road regulations.  These days most of those motorists are abusing drugs and we do not understand their behaviour.

          The money for fines is not used by the police but it is submitted to Treasury.  When it goes to Treasury, it is not returned to the police force but is distributed to other departments. Had it been the case, we would be having a number of vehicles in our police stations because people pay a lot of fines for violation of traffic regulations.  We have no access to those funds because they are submitted to Treasury.  We are going to request that the budget sets aside money for us to acquire vehicles.  I thank you.

          Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 67.



  First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the passing on of the late Member of the Senate, Hon. Sen. Watson Khupe.

     Question again proposed.

  *HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. President.  Firstly, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Manyau for the motion that she brought into this House.  Looking at the life of Hon. Sen. Khupe, he was a very understanding person and he was aware of his role as a Member of Parliament representing people with disability.  He was so conscious of the discrimination that people with disability faced. 

There is a motion that he wanted to table in the House and he wanted me to second the motion and it was on the life of Jairos Jiri.   I think the reason why he wanted me to second the motion is because I come from the same home area as Jairos Jiri.  It is unfortunate that he passed on before he tabled the motion.

  He was a man who admired the work done by Jairos Jiri in improving the lives of people with disability.  We are in pain on the loss of Hon. Sen. Khupe.  He was a man who was true to his word and was principled.  I thank you.

     HON. SEN. MANYAU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

     HON. SEN. T. MOYO: I second.

     Motion put and agreed to.

     Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.



  Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the Seventh Annual General Meeting of the African Parliamentarians Network on Development Evaluation.

     Question again proposed.

     HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.


     Motion put and agreed to.

     Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.



Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Fourth Report of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security on the benchmarking visit to the Parliament of Rwanda.

  Question again proposed.

  HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

  HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.

  Motion put and agreed to.

  Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.



Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the 51st Plenary of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity, I want to support the SADC report tabled by Hon. Sen. Mohadi.  The report mentioned the issue to do with HIV. We are pleased that our parliaments within the SADC can sit and deliberate on issues that affect us on a day to day basis like the HIV and AIDS pandemic.  We want to thank them for that initiative.  It is important for us as legislators and as SADC to sit and deliberate and exchange notes on how we can eradicate HIV/AIDS within the SADC region.  It is a disease that is still there.

As we meet with other SADC countries, we then deliberate and investigate whether it is still as deadly as it was before or that the countries within the region have medication to address the issue of HIV and AIDS.  It is important to see if the prevalence rate is regressing.  So we need to know how we can completely eradicate HIV and AIDS.  We have young children who are growing up and there is need to protect them from HIV/AIDS pandemic because they are the future.

Let me thank the Zimbabwean delegation that represented us at the SADC Plenary Session.  When countries meet, they are at various levels of dealing with the pandemic because of the availability of resources between the different countries. That is important in the sense that they can then exchange notes and advise each other on how to address the pandemic.

When HIV/AIDS was first discovered in Zimbabwe, people thought it was not true and people were shy to talk about it and others sought medication secretly.  Some went as far as getting medication from different provinces away from where they stay.  We thank the Government of Zimbabwe for establishing the National AIDS Council which assisted a lot in reducing the HIV prevalence rate.  They worked very hard in addressing the issue.  I was saying that I want to thank Government for their foresight on the HIV/AIDS and as a nation we worked hard.  I also want to thank the Government for introducing AIDS levy, this benefited us a lot. Other countries admired Zimbabwe because of the way it handled the HIV/AIDS.  That is why we are happy with the SADC Parliamentary Forum as it is addressing issues to do with helping people and we will continue to work together as a region.

As a region, we have cordial relations and we can even visit our relatives and friends in different countries -  that is what led to the spread of HIV and AIDS.  We are very happy that SADC has taken the initiative to ensure that as a region, we meet and deliberate on such issues.  A country without a healthy population can never develop, so we want to thank the Zimbabwean delegation which was part of the meeting that it did well and represented Zimbabwe well.  They also gave reports concerning the measures that are being taken to reduce the prevalence rate of HIV/AIDS.  We want to thank them for taking into consideration issues to do with health to ensure that we all live healthy lives. I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.

HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. PHUGENI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October 2022.



Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Delegation to the United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism High Level Conference on Parliamentary Support to victims of terrorism.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. PHUGENI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.



Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projects.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. PHUGENI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.



Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on vulnerable children living on the streets.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. PHUGENI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.

On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU, seconded by HON. SEN. PHUGENI, the House adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 11th October, 2022.




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