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Tuesday, 5 April, 2022

The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.



          THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: How are you Hon. Senators?  I was about to complain because the House was almost empty.  Now I can see Hon. Senators walking in, where are the other Senators? – [HON. SEN. MOHADI:  Some are out on Committee business] – What about those who are not attending to Committee business?  I think last time we reminded each other that you cannot start by being on virtual, you have to check whether the House is full or not.  Anyway, I think we need to improve.  I think the Chief Whips should see that the situation has improved.



          HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that Order of the Day No. 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

          HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA:  I second. 

          Motion put and agreed to.



          Second Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion to introduce deterrent sentences to those engaging in corrupt activities. 

          Question again proposed.

          *HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to second the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. Hon. Sen. Tongogara brought a pertinent motion to this august House which will benefit us in that if we deliberate on it, it will address a number of issues including corruption which is a cancer that affects development. There is no development that can happen if there is corruption. Hon. Sen. Tongogara did a good thing and I would like to appreciate the New Dispensation for putting in place an Anti-Corruption Commission which has a task of addressing corruption in Zimbabwe.

          For the Commission to succeed, as Hon. Members, we need to fight corruption. We cannot leave this to the Anti-Corruption Commission only. After identifying corrupt activities, we need to communicate so that Zimbabwe develops. Our Government is doing a good job in developing various sectors of the economy. This is evident in that the New Dispensation is bringing out development. So if there is corruption, development will be hindered. I believe that the Commission should be capacitated with enough funding for the Commission to succeed in rooting out corruption. Without funding, they are not able to discharge their duties with fortitude.

          Corruption is not for a single individual but there is need for looking at various players in corrupt activities - those who initiate and those who receive. We need to analyse even the prohibitive and punitive laws that can be applied to corruption because with lighter sentences, corruption cannot be addressed. If we have tough laws with punitive penalties, corruption will be addressed and it will be dealt with forthwith. This does not portray a good image that we find people who want to succeed through corrupt activities. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for her view especially identifying that corruption is bad for the country. Let us support this motion. I thank you Madam President.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to say a few words on the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. When we talk about corruption, there is not much difference with this disease that we are having at the moment, which is cancer. This is because corruption has destroyed our beloved country which we all are proud of. We like it so much but there is a lot of corruption. I just want to thank our President who has put it in a clean plate saying “No to Corruption”. That is a very strong word to us all to adhere to, to minimise corruption. It is our duty, all of us, that if we see any corrupt activities taking place, we need to assist wherever possible because if we love Zimbabwe, we should protect Zimbabwe as well so that it does not get into destruction.

          Madam President, if we look at our borders, they are porous. So many activities are happening and they are not even worried even if the borders are not opened because they know that the corrupt people have opened their own borders. Let me tell you that apart from getting goods especially from South Africa, they can even get cars crossing under those undesignated places. Last year, just about 30 kilometers out of Beitbridge, there was a roadblock. They intercepted three cars just around the Dumba area and they had already crossed into Zimbabwe.

          As a result,  our Government suffers because if at all those goods and cars were being channeled through the border officially, we would be having a lot of money in order to do our duties that we are supposed to do as Government - but all that money goes under water. It enriches one person if not two.  What are we saying about it? We deploy so many people to go and work there but at the end of the day, they are also corrupted. So we have to avoid that by all possible means.

          We have a Commission called ZACC that takes care of this corruption. I would urge the Government to give them an adequate budget because they are doing an excellent job at the moment. Once they fail to have resources, they are also going to be corrupted. So, we need to look after them so that they do their job effectively. If we look at the issue of bribes, there is nothing that we can do before they engage in chiwoko muhomwe. Let us desist from doing that because some people do not realise that by doing chiwoko muhomwe, we are destroying our country. Our country will never move forward or to the final destination. Let us not forget that we have not gotten to our final destination, that is to bring growth to the economy of our country which we look at through the National Development Strategy 1 (NDS 1) so that we fulfill it by 2030.  However, if we continue doing this, I do not think we can get there soon.  We have to try by all means to see to it that we assist our Government.  Let us all be policemen, let us provide security services for our country to guard it jealously against corruption.  With these few words Madam President, I thank you.

^^HON. SEN. NYATHI: I would like to thank you President of the Senate for giving me this opportunity to debate on the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Tongogara regarding corruption.  This is a good motion for us as Zimbabweans because corruption is not a good thing.  It does not build and there is no progress when there is corruption.  So the corruption that we are talking about is not a new thing but every year we speak about it.

The Zimbabwe Anti Corruption Commission should be doing something about corruption.  What is their role?  If they were doing their work, then things will go on well.  Since we started talking about corruption, there is nothing tangible, yet yesterday evening I was watching news and there was a prison inmate who said that ‘I was used to commit a crime and was incarcerated and those who used me are free and roaming the streets.’  What we are saying is everyone who participates in a crime should be incarcerated so that it is clear that whoever assigns someone to commit a crime should be prosecuted as alluded to by Hon. Senators that he who gives a bribe or takes a bribe should equally face the law.

When we talk about corruption and general things that are happening out there, you will find people condemning it to say, ‘who are you, who do you think you are?’  So, my point is that as the Senate and Upper House, let us come together because we are the Government.  Let us promulgate laws which are going to prohibit corrupt activities.  You will discover that a lot of people are facing challenges because of corruption.  At times you find that those who accept corrupt proceeds are viewed as good people.  With corruption, when someone does a bad thing and is punished, this will set a good example so that we build our country.  If we just talk and this just remains as lip service, we will always be talking about it. We talked about it in 2014 and even today we are still talking about it but there is nothing tangible.  We are not going anywhere.  So as the Upper House, we need to come together with the Lower House to discuss about these issues so that corrupt individuals are prosecuted.  Some are in jail but are innocent, yet there are corrupt people that are roaming the streets.  They continue to use and abuse other people.

Madam President, this is what we do not accept.  I thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for moving this motion because corruption is affecting hospitals and other different sectors.  As Senate, we need to come together and come up with punitive laws which are going to be applied to corrupt activities.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to debate the motion on corruption.  I believe that people have seen me debating or talking on television.  As chiefs and elders, it is our responsibility to demonstrate what should be emulated by young people.  It is our responsibility to demonstrate to the youths that corruption is expensive, not only to individuals but to the nation.  At the moment, I can attest to the fact that I came across corruption at the mortuary.  You cannot get your papers processed if you do not pay USD100 as a bribe.  You do not find a doctor or documents from the Home Affairs Department and police but you have to pay a bribe to have your papers processed. 

My belief is that those who were given the task by His Excellency the President, should do their duties without taking bribes and the Commission should be capacitated so that it addresses this scourge of corruption.  This will ensure that things are done properly.  Corruption is like rape, it is like someone who rapes the economy.  We need to work together and join hands so that Zimbabwe develops.  We must not be selfish, just accumulating wealth as individuals, how about others?  If we are leaders, then we are leading other people also and we need to do away with corruption.  As an individual, I do not like corruption.  Whatever we talk about when we discuss as chiefs, we need to do our things in a transparent manner instead of taking bribes.  Those who are responsible for employment of people should employ on merit.  Whenever you find corruption, you find that it does not add well.  Service delivery is affected and the revenue for that particular organisation is diminished.  Those who were given the task or the job will not be performing well. 

As Zimbabweans, we need to understand that we are the ones who are responsible for building our country, not through corruption but we need to urge each other so that we have a mantra as leaders that, corruption does not work.  This is going to benefit our nation if we eliminate corruption.  When you go to the Passport Offices, you will discover that there is a big improvement, you do not wait for more than 15 minutes.  This is the way to go and it is good for Zimbabwe.  We know that it was a place where corruption was rife.  As Zimbabweans, when we identify corruption, let us report it so that it is addressed by responsible authorities for the sake of the development of Zimbabwe.  I just wanted to add these few words to the motion that corruption is bad, it is not part of our culture and we do not want it.  I thank you Madam President.

          +HON. SEN.MKWEBU: Thank you Hon. Madam President for giving me this opportunity to also contribute towards the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Tongogara, seconded by Hon. Chief Ngungumbane.

          Madam President, the issue of corruption in this country has gone too far.  Everyone is talking about corruption, and nothing is being done about it.  In order for something to happen, first corruption has to happen – even disputes in mines.  They remain before the courts for a long time with the lawyers being changed.  When people heard that ZACC was now in place, people in the mines were overjoyed, thinking that pending matters were going to be finalised.  It is sad to note that matters before the courts are still pending.

          We were anticipating Government to encourage ZACC to look at the courts as to why some matters have gone for a long time without being finalised.  Even when people are in possession of the relevant mining documents, some people are mining on claims that do not belong to them.    Upon the arrest of the perpetrators, the arresting officers release them immediately after and share the spoils.  We request, therefore, that corruption be curbed because it is now our song here in Parliament and even in the communities.  It has to be stopped because we have spoken about it a lot.

          ZACC should be allowed to deal with burning issues that are affecting people in communities.  Some of these matters we read about them in the media and they lose value.  These issues are also prevalent amongst communities.  It is only the rich who manage to engage lawyers and their matters are finalised.  Therefore, Madam President, communities are worried that as Government put ZACC in place – then ZACC should be allowed to carry out its mandate to eradicate corruption in Zimbabwe.   

          Again Madam President, a person is arrested after committing murder after having been hired to do so.  The murder suspect is arrested and someone bails them out.  Once they are out, they quickly disappear into South Africa.  They are murdering people and removing body parts.  It is a hurtful thing.  Bail was paid for a murder suspect in Gwanda, and the suspect disappeared to South Africa.  ZACC should look into such matters.  Bail was paid for the murder suspect in order to destroy all evidence against the perpetrator.  We do not know where this bail was paid but those who had the victim murdered are still here.  We are looking at the accused person but the one who hired them is no longer around.  He has already skipped the boarder.  This issue of corruption is very painful Madam President.  With these few words, I thank you.

          ∞HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI:  Thank you Madam President.  I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for moving this motion, and also to thank the Hon. Sen. who seconded it.

          Hon. Madam President, this issue of corruption is a topical one because it is the main issue that we should address as a nation.  It would be pointless if we just continue debating in this House without taking action.  I wish we could adopt the Chinese policy on criminalisation of corrupt people.  The Chinese Government is anti-corruption because when you are arrested for corruption, you are taken for life imprisonment. 

          Ironically here, Madam President, we are good at talking and debating without implementation of what we discuss.  For how long are we going to continue debating on this issue without taking action?  Then there is this issue where we have people who have been arrested for corruption or summoned by the police for corruption but have not been convicted?  We read about them in the newspapers on headlines but the following day, we see them in the communities – a practice that we call, catch and release.

          This is like we are watering the bad seed of corruption.  It is like we are promoting corruption because it is no longer threatening or no longer illegal.  This is the reason we now see that corruption has cascaded down to the garden boy because everyone now believes that for him/her to live well, they have to be corrupt.  Even the builders of bridges have now tended to be corrupt, if they are given 10 bags of cement; they take five to their homes. 

          You heard the Hon. Chief here complaining that in other areas, for someone to get good medication; he has to bribe the nurse, failure to do so will result in you being given paracetamol.  Madam President, it is my wish that we come up with a law that criminalises corruption.    Whoever is arrested for corruption should be imprisoned for life, if we continue turning a blind eye, we are not helping our nation.  We will not eradicate corruption and will just be talking every day.

          I also recommend that you, Madam President, since you are closer to His Excellency the President, kindly inform him that we should enact a law to criminalise corruption and imprison perpetrators for life.  We need the State to criminalise corruption in order for us to have a corruption free country.  Thank you very much for the opportunity that you have given me, I thought it wise to add my voice on this motion today in my mother language.  I thank you.  

          HON. SEN. MATHUTHU:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th April, 2022.



Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on the impact of COVID-19 pandemic lockdown restrictions on HIV and AIDS service delivery system.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.


Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th April, 2022.



Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on the Implementation of the Antiretroviral Therapy (ART) Roll-Out Programme in selected health institutions in Zimbabwe.

Question again proposed.

HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. DUBE: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th April, 2022.



Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

           HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th April, 2022.



Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the untimely passing on of the late Senator for Matabeleland South, Hon. Sen. Simon Khaya Moyo.

Question again proposed.

*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President. I would like to express my condolences on the loss of the late Sen. S. K. Moyo. He was one of many who did a great job in Zimbabwe. I had known Hon. Sen. S. K. Moyo in 1963 during the ZAPU era. He was a hard worker from his young age. He worked in the political office and politics Madam President, was meant to unite people so that we attain independence through the experiences that we went through during the imperialist era when the white man was taking advantage of black people, but we eventually attained independence.  During the process, the late Sen. S. K. Moyo was promoted and he was given a task of being the Press Secretary of the late Vice President Dr. Joshua Nkomo, writing different speeches and other duties that were given by the late Vice President.  As time went on, ZAPU and ZANU united. 

          I remember during those days it was difficult to leave ZAPU, it was considered to be a bad thing, and eventually there was an exodus of people from ZAPU forming ZANU under the leadership of the late Ndabaningi Sithole.  This continued until such a time that Zimbabwe was in the right trajectory.  In 1987, after sitting down, different political parties decided to unite and this gave birth to the Unity Accord.  Hon. Sen. S. K. Moyo was part of that process and there was unity between ZANU and PF ZAPU which became a party which was called ZANU PF, indeed people were united.

          The late Senator used to talk about unity saying that unity is good for the development of the country.  He used to sing a song called Asibambaneni.  When he sang the song, all people were motivated and were very happy.  Indeed, unity was achieved, which made things to go well.  I would like to thank the Moyo family for giving us a man of valour; he was a happy and free person.  We normally talk about him; looking at his deeds, he is irreplaceable.  He would start by cracking jokes and communicating with people in a jovial manner.  The late Senator S. K. Moyo was promoted and he was given different positions in ministries.  I cannot mention the dates but the previous speakers chronicled his journey, mentioning the dates.

          He was given different ministries and he worked with fortitude, wholeheartedly.  The late Hon. S. K. Moyo was a representative of Matabeleland South; he was also given an ambassadorial position in South Africa.  He went there and worked whole-heartedly.  He was a member of the Politburo of the ruling party ZANU PF.  He also gave himself whole-heartedly in that responsibility.  He was an Hon. Senator in this august House and he would contribute like other Hon. Senators.   At times you would find that because of ill health, it ends up affecting people - I remember the late Sen. S. K. Moyo when he came back from sick leave, he was not feeling well and when he sat next to Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa, I asked him how he was feeling, he said ‘look at me, how do I look?’ then I said ‘you look fit’. He laughed and said ‘I have been getting medical attention and I am recovering’.  I did not know that those were his last days but he was a jovial person indeed.  In a few days later, the late Senator Moyo passed away but we would like to thank him for his commitment. As fellow Senators we appreciate because we had a good time with him.  We lost a man of valour. 

          With these words Madam President, I would like to say that Hon. S. K. Moyo, go well son of the soil, you did a good job; you have done your part.  I would like to say rest in peace, go well.

          VHON. SEN. CHIFAMBA:  Thank you Madam President.  I would like to thank the Hon. Senator who moved this motion.  I do not have much to say but I would like to thank the late Sen. S. K. Moyo who fought for the liberation of Zimbabwe.  He is a man who sacrificed his life and family going to participate in the struggle so that he would fight for the independence of Zimbabwe.  As black people, we were being persecuted by the white imperialists. So now we have an independent Zimbabwe. I do not have much to say but I just wanted to appreciate the late Hon. Sen. I thank you.

          * (v) HON. SEN. SIPANI- HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President. I would like to debate on the motion on the passing on of the late Hon. Sen. S. K. Moyo. We worked with Ambassador S. K. Moyo and he was a member of the Politburo. He was a man who used to go with the late Vice President Joshua Nkomo as his protective detail. When there was the Unity Accord, he was also part of the process. He did a lot of work for this country, at one point he was a National Chairman. I cannot say all the things that he did but...

          THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. MOHADI): Your network is very poor, we can hardly hear what you are saying.

           (v) *HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I was saying I was not around when he died and that is why I did not attend his funeral. I am talking about a man of high calibre. The late Hon. Sen. S. K. Moyo served in various capacities before independence and after independence in the 1st and the 2nd dispensation. He was a very loyal cadre. I would like to say that we lost a man of high stature. We mourn together with the Moyo family. I would like to say may his soul rest in peace. As friends in ZANU PF and in this august House in the Senate, we would like to say may God be with his soul. Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity. I thank you.

          HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th April, 2022.




          Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the devastating effects of drug abuse by youths.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate this important motion on the prevalence of drug abuse by our youths that was tabled in this august House by Hon. Sen. A. Dube. These dangerous drugs are sold along the streets and in most cases, by the people that are known. I propose that our Government must craft laws that can account for all those involved in selling these drugs. The culprits must be given stiff penalties.

          If we are not careful, we will leave this country in the hands of these already condemned youths. The youth are the future leaders of tomorrow and we have to find ways and means to serve these young souls from going to hell alive. A broad strategy is needed to educate our people about the dangers of taking these drugs, for example, at churches, schools and any gatherings. Leaders should take the opportunity to talk about the effects of these drugs. There is need for rehabilitation centres at every province as this is now a national problem. These drugs have destroyed the well being of our children.

          Madam President, most of these youths that are taking these drugs or ART medication end up defaulting because they will not remember when to visit health facilities to collect their medicines. Also taking of these drugs weakens their immune system. Lastly, I would like to applaud the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa for coming up with an Inter-Ministerial Committee to look into their bills on drugs in the country and recommend to the Government on measures to be taken to fight this drug abuse.  Thank you Madam President.

*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President.  I would like to add my voice on the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Alice Dube regarding the abuse of drugs by our youths.  This is something that we never saw during our days when we were growing up.  Things like musombodiya and other illicit brews were never heard of. 

When you meet these young people, you will observe that they are in the world of their own.  Our children are being rebellious; they are losing their values because of such drugs.  Madam President, I would like to implore the Government and different arms of Government like Parliament, Senate and National Assembly so that we take this word to the people, that drugs are not right.  Those who peddle drugs, we recommend that the Government should prosecute them and they should be publicised so that people know where they come from and who they are so that we can understand how drugs are coming into the country and who is brewing such illicit substances.  In that regard, I would like to appreciate and commend the previous speakers.

The President of the Second Dispensation, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa explained clearly at a certain gathering where there were young people that drugs are destroying the lives of people and the nation.  These are young people who are future leaders and carry the future of the country.   Can we then hand over the country to such young people who are engaging in disruptive behaviour?  This issue is a serious one and those who will be found partaking in illegal substances should be removed from the society.  They must be incarcerated and there should be punitive laws and fines so that they understand the nature of drugs.  Those who sell drugs should also be investigated. 

I would like to thank the Ministerial Committee which was set up by His Excellency.  We are looking forward to seeing results being produced by this Ministerial Committee.  This issue of drugs is not a good thing, it is destroying our young people, and they grow up with disruptive behaviours and minds.  Even teachers in schools should investigate cases of drug abuse and if they find such cases, then perpetrators should be punished.  Whether there are gatherings or churches in different social groupings, they should take part in the fight against drug abuse because drugs are affecting our young people and the nation at large.  In meetings, there will be no order because when someone is intoxicated, their behaviour becomes irrational. 

We need to stand up and speak with a strong voice so that this issue is addressed for the sake of posterity and the future of our children.  Wherever these drugs are coming from, provinces or urban areas, we need to be very vigilant so that our children are not seen to be involved in that.  I would like to thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity.

HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th April, 2022.

On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU, seconded by HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA, the Senate adjourned at Twelve Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.  

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