PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 3rd June, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTs BY THE HON. SPEAKER
COVID-19 PREVENTION MEASURES
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that as part of COVID-19 prevention measures, Ministry of Health and Child Care officials are stationed at all the entrances to carry-out temperaturescreening and provide hand sanitizers. Hon. Members are advised to cooperate with the said officials as no-one will be allowed into the building without undergoing the temperature-screening and washing of hands.
Hon. Members are also urged to wear their masks at all times.
What is not written in this announcement is that where a Member refuses to sanitize or have their temperature taken, you will be forced by the institution to be arrested because you are breaking the law and you will be immediately taken to some quarantine area. But I want to assure you it will not be to any of the prisons including Chikurubi but to a proper quarantine centre.
VIRTUAL MEETING PLATFORM
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members are being reminded to
make sure that they join the virtual meeting platform; the link was forwarded to their Parliament e-mail accounts, and they should be connected. When an Hon. Member comes forward to debate, he/she should be having their Samsung tablet in front of them so that other Hon. Members that are in break-away rooms are able to follow proceedings accordingly. The ICT department is stationed at the courtyard to assist Hon. Members.
POINT OF PRIVILEGES
THE HON. SPEAKER: There is a request for point of privileges and I have conferred with Government Chief Whip. Three of the Members did raise some point of privilege before and I hesitate to say let us keep Wednesday for question time. Also we agreed that we will only have three point of privilege per given sitting. Here I have got four, so I will go according to the list as given. The last one shall not be called upon. I hope these points of privilege are pointed as discussed previously.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of privilege pertains to the courts of law. The courts were legally constituted in Zimbabwe to solve conflicts that arise between different people. They are not courts just constituted without legality. They were established according to the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon Member, you are now crossing the
floor. We have the doctrine of separation of powers, alright. What goes on in our judiciary system is their area of responsibility.
HON. MASANGO-CHINHAMO: I rise on a point of privilege Mr. Speaker. As Parliament, we are happy with the COVID-19 screening processes that are taking place here but I am really worried on the state the surfaces, tables and chairs at Parliament are in. On Monday we had a committee meeting in the afternoon. We got here around 1330 hours and the tables and chairs in the Members’ Dining area had not been cleaned. The floors were not even swept. The cleaners had to clean whilst we were waiting. Then today - I was here by 1000 hours, the Members Dining area had not been swept again, the tables and chairs had not been wiped. We are constantly getting teachings from the radios and television, and we as Members of Parliament are continually COVID-19 awareness programmes in our constituencies. We are constantly teaching people to disinfect such surfaces as soon as they are used, but this is not happening timeously at this Parliament. Mr. Speaker
Sir, the Members’ Dining area today was cleaned around twelve noon. I feel this is very wrong and puts our health at risk. Mr. Speaker Sir, if just one Member of Parliament or staff is infected and comes to this building, tose tinopera because cleaning and disinfection of surfaces is not really happening. There is this singer who sung kuti smart inotangira kutsoka. Today Mr. Speaker Sir, I am saying smart ngaitangire pano paParliament. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Masango. Perhaps we should have forewarned you that the six floors of Parliament were fumigated very strongly on Friday as a measure to control the spread of coronavirus. So what you saw was not dirt but the remnants of the fumigation. Secondly, we have skeleton staff. We are not yet operating at full throttle because of the coronavirus, so the skeleton have the challenge to clean all the floors including committee rooms. That is the reason. There was no intention for you to rub shoulders with the remnants of the fumigation process and we will make sure that perhaps we do the fumigation on Thursday instead of Friday so that Friday they can clean up to be ready for your sittings in committees on Mondays.
Thank you.
+HON. MATHE: My point of privilege is on a matter I came across. It said that Members of Parliament of the ruling party mocked their colleagues from the opposition when they entered yesterday. I was not happy at all with that. I was here from the onset up to the end. There was no Member of Parliament from the ruling party who mocked the opposition members. Members were actually happy and did not mock their colleagues as they were seeing some of them after a long time and were happy to see them entering the House. Again, the ruling party Members of Parliament passed through a lot of concientisation and were taught a lot of things, including respecting other members and how to conduct ourselves here at Parliament. There is no one who can stand to mock others here. I would like to reiterate that we are happy to see our colleagues. May we continue to work amicably in compliance with the regulations of Parliament? I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Our Standing Rules and Orders guide us so that we may not follow what appears in the media or we end up confused with matters that we are not aware of. As you have said, thank you but I would want to reiterate, please do not follow the media stories. Sometimes they say the truth sometimes they are not.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of order arises from the fact you have said that the media sometimes misleads but some of us have been investigated from stories in the media.
+THE HON. SPEAKER...no, I did not say that
+HON. T. MLISWA: What did you say baba? – [Laughter.]
+THE HON. SPEAKER: I said you should not believe everything that is reported by the media because sometimes it misleads.
Hon. Chinotimba having stood up to raise a point of order after the presentation of notices of motions.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You do not raise a point of order when there is no debate. That is the procedure, the Standing Rules say that.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: No Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of order is serious – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, it is not the degree of seriousness that is important. You raise a point of order when there is a debate.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: Anyway, I do not know if it is privilege
Mr. Speaker, it is serious – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: On the point of privilege Hon. Member, we agreed that we will only allow three points of order on privileges – [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, there is a problem up there, here, these journalists are not following the…] – no, no, I cannot allow that please. Let us follow the rules. Whisper to the Chief Whip, he will deal with the problem.
HON. RWODZI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question today
is directed to either – I am not so sure if it is directed to the Minister of
Home Affairs or to the Leader of the House. Mr. Speaker Sir…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. The Hon. Minister of Home
Affairs is there, so do not be confused.
Hon. T. Mliswa having stood up to raise a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There has not been a debate – [HON. MLISWA: It is a debate.] – No. Before the notices of motions, I should have announced that Hon. Modi, Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce and Hon. Prof. Mavima, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare have sent their apologies.
HON. T. MLISWA: Sorry Mr. Speaker, I do not know how to come in, I need now to be taught; I stand guided by you. I do not know which point I should use to try and get your attention. My point was to say, first of all the notice of absentee apologies are noted. Secondly, we have the issue of the Minister of Health and Child Care and the Minister of Finance and Economic Development not being here. With everything happening, the reason why we reopened this Parliament was to attend to issues.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is a point of privilege because it is your right to be heard by the Hon. Ministers.
HON. T. MLISWA: Last time there was a Cabinet meeting, today there is no Cabinet meeting.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. The Minister of Health and Child Care is coming. He is going to deliver a Ministerial Statement today. I spoke to him earlier this afternoon. The Minister of Finance was supposed to come also but I did not speak to him. Everyone else is aware that they are supposed to be here.
THE HON. SPEAKER: He did attend the Committee meeting on Budget and Finance. I am surprised he is not here because I was following the proceedings.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, is the role of the Minister of Finance to just come and issue a Ministerial Statement? I now need to understand the role of the Minister. There are real questions that each Hon. Member might want to ask and today is question time. Is the role of Ministers now to issue Ministerial Statements and go?
HON. ZIYAMBI: No, they should attend Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: But they never attend Hon. Ziyambi, this is now a crisis. You are given a job by the President and you let us down. We come to Parliament; we did not take a risk to be here because of COVID 19 BUT we are attacked as Parliament Mr. Speaker, that we are not doing anything about it…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your microphone is not on.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, we came back to Parliament because we were attacked that we were not doing anything as
Parliament. It must go on record that Parliament tries to do as much as it can but the Executive is not at all assisting us. So, why are we here because we are not taking a risk of being here? The COVID 19 cases are going high and we need them to answer. You did well by asking us to come back but they are not here, so why are we honestly here according to Section 107 of the Constitution?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. With your indulgence, I think we have some who are already here. The only one that I know may not join us because of some emergency is the Minister of Defence and Security. I will then excuse the Minister of Home Affairs after about 30 minutes but his deputy is here. They are needed for an emergency meeting. I am here and other
Ministers will join us later.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Where is the Deputy Minister of Finance?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I do not know where the Deputy Minister is.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You see, that is where the problem is and
the Minister of Finance is a key Minister.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I am agreeing with you and with your
indulgence, he is on his way. We agreed that he is supposed to be here. I am not privy about the whereabouts of the Deputy Minister save for those that I have indicated that they have a meeting that they have to attend. So, when you see the Minister of Home Affairs leaving, he is not being disrespectful to the House, there is an emergency meeting he has to attend to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Please contact the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. He has not travelled; he was here in Parliament for Committee meetings so he should be here for the full House.
HON. T. MLISWA: Procedurally, the apologies, Minister seeking leave writes to you. So what Hon. Ziyambi is doing is totally out of the procedure of this Parliament which you have taught us. Any Minister who seeks leave writes to you and you mention their names. Hon. Ziyambi is out of order because the Minister himself is present, he cannot be a prefect and try and talk on behalf of another member. We know the rules of Parliament. Unless I am wrong, I stand guided by you. The moment that you announce that this Minister is not absent with leave, then we have a reason. The Minister of Foreign Affairs is not here, there are issues of abductions which are happening and so forth. So, for how long will he fend for his own like that? It is unprocedural for him to stand for his other Ministers. It is unprocedural for you to do that because you are supposed to follow the procedure of handing in the names of people who are not here. You cannot break the rules because you are Leader of Government Business. When now we have their names there that they are not here, then we are now satisfied and we ask him questions as Leader of Government Business because the name is before you that the Minister has sought leave. Is that not so Mr. Speaker Sir?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much; that is correct and
very procedural. You see, the Standing Orders do not even want to know the reasons for absence, it simply says indicate that you are not available. The Standing Rules and Orders do not inquire even to the reasons although some Hon. Ministers in the past have said in advance, ‘I shall be out of the country on Government business’, which is an improvement – [HON. T. MLISWA: But now they cannot go out of the country.] – The point has been made Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: They are wasting tax payers’ money. Why
do we have to come to Parliament when Ministers are not here? Why do we come to class when there is nobody here? Why are we here? I want to know. That is my question. Why waste our time?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. I think you
have made a blanket statement. There are Ministers here and ministries are properly represented by their deputies. The Constitution says the Ministers and Deputy Ministers and I can see numbers; several deputy ministers are here to answer questions -[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – Thank you the point has been made and also the point has been made for the Leader of Government Business here.
We do not want to be flogging this dead horse every Wednesday.
HON. RWODZI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Mr. Speaker Sir, as our country went into lockdown like any other country in the world; we experienced a number of challenges and of course a number of advantages for the lockdown. The challenges were ....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, please ask questions.
HON. RWODZI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am concerned
about ex-prisoners from surrounding countries that came into the country mainly those who were in remand in South Africa. I want to know where they are right now and what you have done about them because there has been an influx of criminal activities for the past month or so. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
would like to sincerely thank the Hon. Member for such a pertinent question. Yes, we have been profiling them. The initial problem that we have is that when they started coming, these ex-prisoners or convicts or ex convicts, we did not have their information but we started profiling them and those that have been found to have committed crimes have been arrested. I would like to inform the House that we had three that had committed crimes before they left the country and we identified them after profiling them and they were taken to court and the three of them have been convicted and they are serving their sentences. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development but he is not in. In his absence, I will direct my question to the Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Proceed with your question.
HON. T. MOYO: My question Hon. Speaker is, what is
Government policy regarding the 2020 producer price of cotton?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
KARORO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Member. Government policy is that regarding the announcement of commodity prices, a price should be announced after all procedures by relevant ministries have been followed. So, coming to your question on cotton price, expect an announcement from next week Tuesday because it has to be ratified by Cabinet.
HON. T. MOYO: My supplementary is - why is Government not announcing the prices expeditiously because farmers started marketing their cotton in March and they have not been paid for the price of cotton. The other issue is, is the price going to be in RTGs or US dollar because cotton is an export crop? Thank you very much.
HON. KARORO: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I think the
Hon. Member was very right to direct the question to the Minister of Finance because all the answers have to do with Ministry of Finance. As Ministry of Agriculture, we are doing our part; we submit the recommendations to the Ministry of Finance who then gives it a thumbs up. So, we have done our part and we are also expecting the Ministry of
Finance and Economic Development to submit our submissions to Cabinet for final approval.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Any further explanation Leader of Government Business in the absence of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development who we hope is coming?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. Perhaps to add, I will speak on the policy aspect and not the technical aspect of how they come up with the price.
The policy really is that the Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, in consultation with the various stakeholders, come up with a producer price and a paper that they then submit to Cabinet for consideration. Once that paper is brought to Cabinet and approved, then a producer price is announced. So, I think it is still work in progress within the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. It is not a problem of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development per se because they have not yet submitted it for approval but like he said, it is something that is work in progress and we hope that within a week or two, it would have been concluded. I thank you.
+HON. MATHE: My question is directed to the Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. People in rural areas do not have any food. What is the Department of Welfare’s criteria in distributing food relief to both the vulnerable and non-vulnerable?
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, where is your Ipad?
+HON. MATHE: Mr. Speaker, you made the announcement just now. I had not brought mine with me …
+THE HON. SPEAKER: No, the announcement was made last week.
+HON. MATHE: I having challenges with my Ipad. It is upstairs in Room 121 and is still being fixed.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: No but you know what is going to happen now if an Hon. Member does not have his or her Ipad in front of them as announced? You will not be allowed to ask a question.
+HON. MATHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Get it fixed as soon as possible.
+HON. MATHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, the Hon. Minister and Hon. Member, do not explain, just ask your question.
+HON. MATHE: Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, my question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare pertaining to those who are young and non-vulnerable, where did they get the rains to water their fields since you are not giving them food?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. If I could get somebody to translate the question for me.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The translation is, food distribution is being given to the vulnerable but there are others who are also going hungry because they are suffering the consequences of drought. Why are they not being given drought relief?
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. It is Government
policy to give all vulnerable people in the country food aid but I think if there are any areas that are not receiving food aid, I would request the Hon. Member to let us know so that we can send our officers to go and profile the names of those individuals and assess whether they are vulnerable or not before we can proceed to give them food relief. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! The Hon. Minister said
that if there are specific areas where people are not getting drought
relief, can this be brought to the attention of the Ministry. So there is no supplementary.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, we
are having problems with connectivity. I think the bandwidth is just not working. So when you get Hon. Members talking and they do not have their Ipads, it is not because we do not want to – it is really difficult.
When you are outside, you cannot even connect – [AN. HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjections] – Yes, it cannot. They said that they had spoken to TelOne and TelOne is saying …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members, in view of
the internet breakdown, please proceed with your questions without the tablets.
HON. MATHE: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question!
THE HON. SPEAKER: I ruled out the question of
supplementary. The Hon. Minister said, ‘Give us the areas and the
Ministry will investigate accordingly’. – [HON. MATHE: Inaudible interjections.] - So there is no supplementary there. I am going to apply the new Standing Orders and ask you Hon. Member to be out.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, my point of recommendation
is that may the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare declare a national drought and aid will come in because the companies and NGOs that give aid only gave aid up to April … - [HON.
ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjections.] – Is it?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Ziyambi, if you want to clarify Government policy, please wait for the Hon. Member to finish. Please go ahead.
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, apparently the aid for maize was last given in April because as a country, we have not declared this a national disaster. They are not able to continue giving – that is what I was told.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Ziyambi, you want to correct
Government policy in terms of declaration?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. Yes, I just wanted to highlight the fact that the declaration has already been done. This is the reason why we are seeing all the donor agencies coming in to assist. When we are doing quantification of the maize that we have, we are taking into consideration what the World Food Programme and other donor agencies are bringing in. So that has already been done.
*HON. CHIHURURU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government. What plans do you have for those who had their structures demolished?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for the pertinent question. I would want to rephrase the question. We are not as Government destroying structures. At the 9th Cabinet meeting it was resolved that in line with covid-19, it is imperative...
*HON. MAKONYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Chihururu spoke in Shona, so I would like to request the Hon. Minister to respond in Shona so that she addresses the question – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. When Hon. Mathe raised a question in Ndebele and the Minister of Labour responded in English, no one raised a point of order requesting the Minister to respond in Ndebele. So Hon. Deputy Minister of Local Government, because you can communicate in Shona, may you proceed in Shona.
*HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the pertinent question which sought to understand the Government’s position regarding demolished structures.
I would like to clarify that we did not destroy structures but the 9th Cabinet sat and determined that during the covid-19 pandemic, it is important to prepare informal stalls in line with the Ministry of Health’s plans so that such areas have ablution facilities and water sources. The councils were not destroying structures but they were following a
Cabinet directive. Had we continued with what was prevailing then, we were going to risk people’s lives. That is why you discovered that councils were moving around solving hygienic issues. Areas like the Mupedzanhamo are being restructured and renovated so that vendors can maintain social distance. We have plans of reallocating stands to vendors so that they can operate within the confines of the law. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL
COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on the 3rd June 2020 and considered the Marriages Laws Bill [H. B. 7A, 2019]. The Committee is of the opinion that the Bill is not in contravention of the Declaration of Rights or any other provisions of the Constitution.
HON. SHIRICHENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question has already been asked by Hon. Moyo, although I wanted to know the producer price of groundnuts, sunflower and sugar beans. Thank you
Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Unfortunately, you cannot ask cross referenced questions.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government’s policy position regarding offering inputs and extension service support to those rural households who have sunk boreholes and established small irrigation schemes in their homesteads?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CULTURE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
DOUGLAS KARORO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. May I ask the Hon. Member to come again with the question? It is just too long.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You did not comprehend it.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me put it this way. There are individual rural households who have sunk boreholes in their private homes and they have also established small irrigation plots schemes at their homesteads. What is Government policy regarding offering input and extension service support to those households. I thank you.
HON. KARORO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I got the question now. I want to make it clear to the House that in terms of inputs provisions, there are two schemes. There is the Command Agricultural Scheme which targets medium to large scale farmers and we also have the Presidential Input Scheme. Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear that these schemes are not discriminatory. They look at as long as you are in the category of small scale or in the category of medium to large scale, you will benefit from the Command Agriculture. If you are in the small scale whether you have a borehole as an irrigation means, if you qualify for the Presidential Input Scheme, you will benefit from that scheme.
HON. WADYAJENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to ask the Deputy Minister, is Command Agriculture a Government programme and are the inputs for free?
HON. KARORO: The Command Agriculture is a scheme that is facilitated by Government to make sure that farmers are assisted with inputs related to farming.
HON. WADYAJENA: I have asked a specific question, is Command Agriculture a Government programme, yes or no and not
facilitated.
HON. KARORO: I am happy to say that the Hon. Member who is asking the question is the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Lands and Agriculture and he is very much aware that this programme on command is a programme that is facilitated by Government in conjunction with the private sector – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - When a programme is being facilitated by Government, what does that mean – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. KWARAMBA: If Command Agriculture is a
Government programme, CBZ is taking farmers’ money and they are left with nothing despite investing in farming inputs. We need to be assisted on that.
*HON. KARORO: I cannot say this is a question but a challenge which is being faced by our farmers who are given inputs before the prices of such inputs are announced. They are given inputs and charged later after taking their produce to the market, which poses a challenge to our farmers because such prices might end up exorbitant and beyond the expectations of the farmers. This is a challenge that we are facing as a
Ministry. My promise is that in the next season – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Why do you not allow the Hon. Deputy Minister to reply and if there is some lack of clarity, you can seek clarification.
*HON. KARORO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for protecting me. During the next agricultural season, the private sector and all those who provide inputs and implements are going to announce their prices in advance. We wrote a letter to the CBZ so that the issues are ironed out.
We are waiting for a response from CBZ and Cabinet. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Does Government fund Command
Agriculture? Is there money coming from the fiscus which is funding Command Agriculture? On the Public Accounts Committee so that I help - Command Agriculture is no longer funded by Government through TBs. It used to be funded by TBs and now it is under CBZ. So when Government has no funding, whether it is facilitating, it cannot respond to this because we now run a risk of him taking a responsibility which he will not answer to because we chase after Government money. That is why I am asking – does Government fund Command
Agriculture? If he says yes, then we now chase after the money but if it does not, we then chase money to whoever runs it. I do not know if that helps.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It appears like you answered yourself.
You answered yourself very well.
HON. MUSAKWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What is Government policy position with regards to vulnerable households who were being assisted by NGOs which have since abandoned the same and we are told that there is no space on the social welfare side of Government to absorb those beneficiaries.
We have catastrophic hunger levels in areas such as Chitsanga, Maboke, Mpamaonde and everywhere just to name a few so that you know that these people are homeless. Can we have the Government policy position on these people, for they are in critical need for food assistance?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Normally our donors
provide food for the current season which expired in April and anticipating getting a good harvest because they do not normally spill over to the next season. I understand what the Hon. Member is asking because we have another drought this year. What we are going to get from the harvest may not take us up to June or July. We have since approached those donors to continue providing food. We need to start identifying vulnerable people again for this current season. I promise the Hon. Member that in the near future, the same vulnerable people who were identified before and those who are going to be identified now will continue to receive their food aid. I thank you.
HON. MUSAKWA: My supplementary question to the Minister
is - what timeframes can he give because these people are in a serious situation. We can have some deaths if this process delays.
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I may not be in a
position to state the timeframe but what I can only say is if there is any need, the Hon. Member can liaise with our local Social Welfare Officer who can attend to the vulnerable communities whilst we are waiting for the donors to come back and provide food. So if there are any issues to do with those communities which were affected, you contact our office so that we can ask our officers on the ground to register those people for them to immediately receive the food aid.
+HON. MATHE: My supplementary question to the Minister is
that he said there is food for work taking place but we have not seen it in our constituency. Where is food for work taking place? You also talked of the vulnerable yet in this COVID-19 era everyone has been made vulnerable. How do they survive if they do not fall under the vulnerable parameter?
*HON. MATUKE: If I heard the Hon. Member’s question
correctly, she is asking where the food for work is taking place because she has not seen it anywhere in her constituency. To answer the Hon.
Member, what has stopped food for work is the COVID-19 lockdown. After the lockdown was announced everyone stopped going to work including those doing food for work. When we open again, people will go back to work for food as a means of survival. Most people were taken unawares by this disease and they are all entitled to food aid because they cannot pursue their means of livelihood. There are two options that we are using to ensure that food gets to the people. Firstly, beginning June, all those who were registered because of their vulnerability are supposed to get $300 for those in towns and for those in the rural areas they are supposed to get food in areas designated for food distribution.
I want to agree with the Hon. MP that we were all looking forward to seeing people getting food for certain budgeted months. So the end of food distribution was supposed to be in April. That is why you do not see any donors because the prescribed time had come to an end. Now because of the hunger that we are faced with, we have asked them to come back and assist Government while we buy what has been harvested to assist with food to the people. I also want you to know that
COVID-19 resulted in all countries locking down and that affected Government maize importation. However, the maize that we have harvested will suffice while we wait for the imported maize to come. That is why we urge the Hon. Member to come to our offices if there is urgent need so that no one is left to starve while we wait for the imported maize. We will ensure that everyone gets food to eat.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister of Health and Child
Care is now around and I am sure he is going to give his ministerial statement after question time.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Mr Speaker Sir. My question is
to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Since the announcement that ZUPCO is the only official transport to be used, the people in the rural areas are suffering. There is no transport and my question is - when do we expect to get ZUPCO buses in the rural areas because those who are sick cannot get transport to the hospitals? Private cars are charging exorbitantly and it is not affordable.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think that question is for the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. MHLANGA): Thank you Mr
Speaker Sir. The introduction of COVID-19 lockdown resulted in the removal of buses in different areas but we have approved buses which take commuters to work every day. We also have exceptions like ambulances and other facilities but because we are in this lockdown, we would continue to ask people to stay at home.
*HON. TEKESHE: Of course, the directive was given but staying in rural areas does not mean that one does not go to work and does not need transport to go to different places. My question is - how can this challenge be solved?
*HON. CHOMBO: We sat down and deliberated on the issue so that we understand where people would be going. I would like to request the Hon. Member to communicate if the Hon. Member feels that we are not giving that ZUPCO service as Government. The Hon. Member should come to the office and engage us so that we come up with a position. However, as Government, we try by all means to provide transport for essential services. Thank you.
*HON. MAVETERA: Has Government analysed and looked into
the issue of provision of transport services? For example in the Seke area, ZUPCO buses are delaying to ferry people to their workplaces.
What is Government doing to alleviate that shortage?
*HON. CHOMBO: We mentioned that we are on level two of the lockdown. The country has 1000 commuter omnibuses and 600 buses. Yesterday when Cabinet sat, Cabinet looked into the level 2 and determined that buses should now carry at full capacity. For example, if buses where carrying 32 people, now they can ferry 64 people. Commuter omnibuses can now carry 16 people. Our buses should start carrying people at 0430 hours and do three trips. They should be able to ferry people going to work so that by 0745 hours people will be in town. We are advising people that this programme of carrying at full capacity started today. We have instructed that all buses should have sanitisers and people should be wearing face masks. Also, the people boarding those buses should have letters to show that they are going to work. Starting from today, things will improve and people will arrive at work on time but if you see that it is not going on well, we request you to come to our office and assist us so that we can fix the problem. The Government has however allowed us to add more buses and kombis if we see that we are still encountering challenges ferrying people to work.
*HON. MAKONYA: Hon. Tekeshe asked about rural transport because people in rural areas also want to travel, the issue is not of going to work only. There are a lot of problems we are seeing in rural areas and people need to travel. For example, when your mother dies you have to travel and it does not matter that it is during a lockdown you have to go. I am requesting the Minister and Cabinet to go back and sit down and see that you have put ZUPCO buses in rural areas from
Chiendambuya to Rusape. Let it leave Chiendambuya on Monday carrying people to Rusape to enable them to buy medicines and attend funerals, not only for people going to work.
*HON. CHOMBO: We are in a very difficult time of Covid-19. We want to work as Government to contain the disease, so we do not encourage inter-city visits. We are advising people to stay put where they are but if we are out of the lockdown, we will have a plan in terms of ferrying people in rural areas. If someone has a funeral there is transport which is provided in every area but at the moment, as
Government we gave a directive that people stay put at their places.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: The question was asking you to sit down as Cabinet and see how you can assist people in rural areas. If the request is rejected, you come back and tell us that it has been rejected.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The Minister of
Health will give a Ministerial Statement explaining all those issues. In our investigations, we saw that where people gather there is a risk of spreading the disease. So in our resolutions we said those who are going to companies and following regulations should be allowed to go but for us to say that buses should be carrying people from one place to another, we are not yet satisfied that we are out of danger. We may have a bigger problem and we will not be able to contain the spread of the disease. We do not even want people to gather at funerals or buses to be carrying people to funerals. We do not want people to travel. If someone is sick, they have to go to the nearest clinic and we need to look for resources so that every clinic is well resourced and we avoid the spread of diseases. So for us to go to Cabinet and ask for buses, we will be breaking the agreement which we made that we need to stop the spread of the disease.
Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Leader of the House. We are happy that the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care will address that issue.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. Mr.
Speaker Sir, the justice delivery system of this country is under scrutiny.
People are arrested; they go to court and are acquitted. The number of acquittals which have been happening are a lot and there is now a question that; are people being arrested to be prosecuted or to be persecuted? There are examples; The Advocate Thabani Mpofu situation is one and many others. I would like the Minister to really reassure this House that surely the justice delivery system of this country is what it is constitutionally.
The question is why is it that when you arrest people, they are constantly acquitted? Is it because the prosecution is weak or those who are arresting are personalising the arrest and not using the law? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you
Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. I want to tackle his question in two parts. We have the investigative arm of the State and the powers of investigation are vested in the police. We also have the Anti Corruption Commission; they also come in and do investigations. Once investigations have been completed and they are satisfied that they have a prima facie case, they go on to arrest and they move now to the Prosecutor General’s office and then to the courts.
Coming to his question that we have so many arrests and fewer convictions, the arm that is arresting is not the one that determines what happens in the court. Their job is to present the evidence that they have so that the court can determine. However, what we have tried to do now is; we are in the process of saying, the police, Anti Corruption Commission and the Prosecution must sit down together and agree that this docket is ready for prosecution before they go on to arrest. We are trying to encourage them to remove this silo mentality and work together, the investigators and those lawyers who are responsible for prosecution so that they satisfy each other that they have a case that they can prosecute and win. So, this is the new approach that we are encouraging them to do and we hope that going forward, there is going to be an improvement in that regard. Once they do that, then our focus will now shift to say; why are we getting more acquittals when these are satisfied that the cases are like this. However, our system also has checks and balances. We start off at the Magistrate Court, if you are not happy you go to the High Court and if you are not happy you go to the Supreme Court.
So, the judiciary system also offers checks and balances if you are not happy with the outcome of the case. In terms of policy, generally, the framework is very good but the only area that I feel that we decided that we needed to strengthen is to ensure that the investigative arm and the prosecution agree and work together to ensure that before they go to the courts, they work towards realising their ultimate goal. I thank you
Hon .Speaker Ma’am.
HON. T. MLISWA: I want to thank the Hon. Minister for admitting that there is a problem and as a result, they should be working together. What is important is that decisions must be made by the appointing authority on those who are failing to discharge their duties professionally. I am a good example of having been arrested over 70 times but acquitted over 70 times; no police officer or Commissioner General was fired. So, to me, can we continue like this; you have high profile cases of Hon. Mupfumira the former Minister of Finance, Cde. Ignatius Chombo; all these are just lingering and there is nothing that is happening.
So, it is pretty important for the Minister to understand that no one is confident with the justice delivery system anymore and it is important to tell us where the weakest link is. If it is the enforcement agent, are they arresting to investigate or investigating to arrest? It seems as if they arrest to investigate instead of investigating to arrest. No wonder why there are a number of cases which are always acquitted and people have lost confidence in that regard. The Minister, knowing him and him wanting this to work, people have lost faith and they think every arrest is personal and has an agenda and the system is trying to persecute people, which is not good. Which is the weakest link now from the enforcement agent to the prosecution and to the judiciary in your opinion? Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I think the
Hon. Member is asking me a question that I cannot answer in this
House. When I stand up to answer questions, I do not answer on the basis of my personal opinion but I am sure he can find other fora to ask my personal opinion. Here I just lay out the policy framework and what is supposed to be done. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: From a policy point of view, the enforcement agents, the Prosecutor General’s Office and the Judiciary, which do you think is not implementing the policy?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not believe
that from a policy point of view there is a weakness. I believe in looking at individual cases and see how they are prosecuted. If it is at the Magistrate Court, what do we then do to appeal to finality. So, I would not want to say there is a weakness in a policy. The structure of our Judiciary is comparable to any in the world and the structure of our National Prosecution Authority as enshrined in our Constitution is perfectly okay. So, I believe that we need to strengthen the institutions. That is the reason why I alluded to the fact that going forward, we are in agreement that let us remove the silo mentality. The investigators as
well as the prosecutors have to sit down and agree on the readiness of a particular case to go for trial. That is the response that I can give.
HON. MATEWU: My supplementary to what Hon. T. Mliswa
raised is that he raised a very pertinent and significant question on the integrity of our justice system. Whilst the Minister has tried to separate between the investigation arm - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Member, please put on your face mask; do not remove your mask from your mouth.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Madam Speaker. Whilst he tried to
separate between the justice delivery system in terms of the courts and the investigating arm of the police, but the two are intertwined and I want to ask in terms of the persecution of political leaders in this country. In terms of people aligned within politics, I give a case....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, that is a new
question, please take your seat.
HON. MATEWU: No it is the same question. I am sure you understand. It is a supplementary to what he just said. The Hon.
Minister said that he is going to …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not allowing you to go
forward take your seat Hon. Member.
HON. MATEWU: Madam Speaker, I need to be given the chance
to ask the Minister a question.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is a new question, you
ask when you get your chance.
HON. MATEWU: Can I ask a new question to the Hon. Minister?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you cannot ask now, take
our seat – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order Hon.
Members please.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: When Mr. Speaker who is a man was in the Chair, there was order. Now that he has gone, it is disgusting and appalling from the ZANU PF perspective that you constantly make noise when she is in the Chair. Is it because you have no respect for her?
When the Speaker was here, you we totally. It is about time that ZANU PF becomes sensitive to the gender issues of this country. You pay lip service to too much gender when you are going for elections but yet you do not respect a female in the Chair. Can we please respect the Chair not because she is a female or male but the chair that she is seating on. Therefore, I implore you Madam Speaker to use your powers to kick people out of this Parliament with the new Standing Rules and Orders and Rules which are there.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I just want to find out the Government policy with regards to building grants in schools, does this still exist?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very
much Madam Speaker. I would like to inform the House that our school system is two pronged. We have private and Government schools. Under the Government school system, we have the pro-Government which are funded directly by Government, then we also have Council schools which come under the umbrella of Government schools. In those schools, the grants that are available are through PSIP projects. We also have other partners that come into play like NGOs, churches and so forth. So those grants are still there and are coming under PSIP and solely for Government schools in the categories I have given. The private school side is not covered in those grants. I thank you.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Now that some
schools are not getting that funding, is it not possible that the money which is allocated for devolution, a percentage of it be put to schools of that nature?
HON. E. MOYO: Thank you very much once more. On the question of devolution, I think the discretion lies with those that manage the devolution funds to determine what purpose that fund is going to be used for. The other side of it is SIG (School Improvement Grants) which is a product of GPE (Global Partnership and Education) which then gives some disadvantaged schools some complementary grants to complete building projects in their schools. On the devolution side, we may not say this is how you are going to use the monies but it depends on those who are planning and determining the nature of projects to be funded. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. May I know why
satellite schools in rural areas are not prioritised in accessing Government grants?
HON. E. MOYO: I think they are prioritised. If you look at the school list for these projects from the different provinces, you will find that our satellites are on the priority list. The only thing is that they may not all be covered at the same time because of scarcity of resources.
However, some grants every year are given to those schools for the construction of classrooms and other facilities.
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: My supplementary is, for this year, SIG money has been staggered from building classroom blocks. Can you as a Ministry chase up with the donor to make sure that the money is allowed to build schools? In my constituency, we have built quite a number of schools using SIG money. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Madam
Speaker, I think that is a recommendation that is worth chasing and also determining what is happening in that field but as a matter of policy; SIG money and as per the agreement, should be used to also assist in the construction of schools and that has happened over years. I thank you.
*HON. CHIKUKWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. We are aware that in order for people to be mobile, it is necessary for them to have authorization letters. I heard the Leader of Government Business talking about crossing or moving across provinces. However, my question is that for those who want to go to banks, is it necessary for them to obtain letters?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Madam
Speaker Ma’am. The question that was asked by the Hon. Member touches and affects a lot of people.
Moving around with letters through different roadblocks was done so that the police can control the movement of people during the Covid19 pandemic. In order for people to move around for different reasons – there are local police stations in their neighbourhoods so people can go to the Officers-in-Charge and get letters from them because the head of any particular district may be far, but a Member-in-Charge is empowered to do that. Without such constraints, there are a lot of people who may want to get into town to take advantage of the situation.
Some may even deceive the police hence I would want to urge Hon. Members to enlighten their constituents of such developments so that they can go to their Officers-in-Charge and request for such letters.
People do not go to banks every day. So banking institutions must be orderly so that banks are not overcrowded. It is necessary to obtain such letters so that Government can control the movement of people. I thank you.
*HON. DR. MATARUTSE: My question is, is it Government
policy for people to pay for obtaining these letters?
*HON. MADIRO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am – that is
corruption. These letters should be issued free of charge. Zimbabwean citizens are urged to expose such corruption, especially if it is being perpetrated by law enforcement officers.
This should be reported to the police without fear or favour so that corruption is totally eradicated. If corruption is perpetrated and people keep quiet, then it will continue unabated. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want
to know whether or not the issuance of these letters is limited to the police?
HON. MADIRO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I believe
that the Leader of Government Business has already highlighted the fact that there are essential services that were authorised to operate. Such companies can write letters confirming that these are their workers who are expected to go to work.
Government officials like the district administrators, especially in the rural areas, can also write authorisation letters. I thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: This issue of authorization letters – my question is, is this issue producing results? The issue regarding corruption has been mentioned several times. At times when you report corruption, no action is being taken because corruption is found even at higher levels. So we do not have to blame the junior officers only because of the allowances that they are being paid.
*HON. T. MLISWA: My question is - how much is being paid to
the officers so that they do not engage in corrupt activities? You have not arrested anyone for corruption. Which senior Government official has been arrested and is still in jail?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you asking how much
is paid to police officers who write letters?
*HON. T. MLISWA: My first question is - we have noted that there are a lot of letters being written but there is no compliance on social distancing. Secondly, we were told that we should report corruption, how do we report corruption yet a lot of corruption is perpetuated by senior officers?
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Members to my left side, please may we observe social distancing.
Those who were not here please may you proceed to the gallery – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – May we observe social distancing Hon. Members. Hon. Members sitting on the front row, please social distancing. You are not observing social distancing Hon.
Members please. We need to be one metre apart. Hon. Members, please may you behave like mature people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members. Hon. Members and Hon.
Ministers, here please may we observe social distancing.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is no point of order
Hon. Mliswa please.
*HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker there is a point of order. The reason why Members are coming in, the security of Parliament should do their work of controlling people and showing them where they should go. Why are they not controlling people?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is a valid point. Hon. Members please, may we observe social distancing. Idzo nyaya dzacho dzamunoda kutaura munguva yecovid, inyaya rudzii dzamunoda kuungana muchitaura muno? Hon. Members on the front row to my left
- please, may you observe social distancing. Hon. Sikhala and Hon.
Mliswa!
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I seek leave of the House that we suspend Questions With Notice and allow the Minister of Health to deliver his Ministerial Speech on COVID 19.
Motion put and agreed to.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order. Hon.
Sikhala for your information, it was peaceful in this House – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Matangira!
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
STATE OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Madam Speaker, allow me to start by saying that COVID-19 is still with us. I want to emphasise that so that when we go back to our constituencies, we can re-emphasise it. Madam Speaker, allow me to give an update on COVID-19 situation. I will start by telling you globally and also in country, we have a high risk. In so doing, allow me to first thank His Excellency, President Emerson Mnangagwa and his deputies for the guidance they have been giving us in the fight against COVID-19. The global outlook of the pandemic reflects a continuous presence of the disease in most parts of the world. Key to the fight against COVID 19 in our country lies in our ability to test more numbers as this will inform us whether we have the disease with us or we only have sporadic incidence of the disease.
In this regard, the Government has decentralised testing of COVID 19 to all our provinces using what is called PCR machines called the gene expert machines. This has seen us being able to increase the number of tested cases though there remains challenges in testing as many cases as possible in a short space of time. Currently, the country has a capacity to do slightly above 2 000 tests per day.
I will now give you some statistics of our laboratory activities as at the 1st of June 2020;
Number of tests that were carried | Number of confirmed cases | Number that has recovered | Number of cases that are active | Number of cases that have deceased |
19 237 | 203 | 29 | 170 | 4 |
We would have loved to keep these figures down as Zimbabweans. Given the rapid increase in positive cases recently, there is anticipation of an increase in the testing demand which we need to prepare for this coming week. The decentralisation of PCR testing has also increased the access of the tests to the population with a decrease in turnaround time of results being observed.
As the Ministry of Health, we have submitted a request for additional financial allocation in order to test as many people as possible. Currently, more supplies are awaited. We have a total of six public laboratories and one private and they are still able to run 186 PCR tests per laboratory. There are fourteen provincial sites with the capacity to test using the machine called gene expert. Each of the sites can run 32 samples a day. This gives a total lab testing capacity of 448 for the gene expert per day. Thorngroove and United Bulawayo hospitals are also sites whose bio-safety is being improved to enable testing.
Since the on-set of the COVID 19 outbreak, Zimbabwe has carried a total of 19 237 PCR tests and 23 594 rapid diagnostic tests. The country has also introduced the cartridge based PCR tests and this has been deployed to fifteen sites across all the provinces. The deployment is phase based and the intention is to have district hospitals carrying out COVID 19 testing using the gene expert.
Currently, the country has been receiving commodities from the development partners and the Africa Centre for Disease Control. Government of Zimbabwe has also released funds and expedited procurement and the commodities have started to be delivered. It is common knowledge that there is a huge competition for the commodities which are used for testing. At the same time, commodities are being allocated to countries by risk of burden of disease, hence the deliveries have been taking time as Zimbabwe is regarded as a low risk country. The commodities have not been delivered in complete packages in some cases.
Africa CDC has played a useful commodity supplier. An example is in the delivery of the primers and the extraction reagents. Likewise, we have also received supplies or support from the Chinese, British, Americans, UAE, European Union – there has been a lot of support from the development partners: UNICEF and WHO have also chipped in.
Currently, the country has 9 000 laboratory based PCR tests and 3 600 of the cartridge based PCR tests. For this reason, whilst more deliveries are in the pipeline, testing has been prioritised for the quarantine areas and those patients presenting with classical symptoms of COVID 19. As deliveries improve, the testing can then be expanded to other groups of people. Parliamentarians are also earmarked for
COVID 19 testing utilising PCR. The dates will be advised shortly.
The other issue regarding COVID 19 management relates to Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) for use by staff. Government has involved the universities and other tertiary institutions in the production of PPEs. Local industry is also complementing efforts of Government by producing the same PPEs even though they are pricing may be slightly higher as compared to those produced by the universities. Local production of PPEs accounts for at least 5% of the demand of the local market. Much of our PPEs are coming from the donor community and they have been keeping us going especially considering that our country is under sanctions and as such, it is difficult to access products in the market.
It is important that I highlight the achievements to date in our COVID-19 response. Availability of the PPEs will boost our thrust of preventing the pandemic. Despite all this, Government continues to do the very best it can within available resources to protect its citizens and the frontline staff. The quarantine centres – Government continues to be guided by the WHO guidelines on the issue of quarantining and isolation of suspected COVID-19 cases. As we may have been observing the happenings around the globe, most countries have been deporting people who are not citizens to their countries. In that regard, even the Government of Zimbabwe has banned travel of foreigners into our country. It could not ban however the return of its citizens. However, I must mention that it is our own citizens who are being deported who are now posing a challenge to our quest to fight COVID-19. The returning citizens are subjected to the normal quarantine process upon return from the respective deporting countries.
What we have noted and presented from the statistics is that most of our cases are coming from the returnees. Very few cases are coming from the local transmission. To curb this problem, Government has in the past week made a decision to ensure that all the available resources be channelled towards testing all people in the quarantine centres using the PCR testing platform so that we minimise further transmission by detecting those that are positive at an earlier stage. Once identified as positive, the patients are quickly taken to our isolation facilities depending on status whether they are moderate, mild to moderate and/or severe.
Madam Speaker, schools are in the process of preparing to open and Government has been using these facilities as quarantine centres. I am happy to inform the House that all the provincial COVID-19 task force committees have made a move ahead of time to identify suitable alternative quarantine centres and in some instances people are already being moved to these new centres. Regarding security at the quarantine centres, it has been noted that there has been an upsurge in the number of people escaping from the quarantine centres and this poses a serious threat to our people.
I also want to inform the House that our security services have upped provision of security around these centres and those who escape will have their names published so that the public is aware of those that can pose a danger to their communities. I therefore want to urge Members of this august House to pass on the message to their constituencies not to allow their members to house their relatives who would have escaped from quarantine centres before being tested.
In addition, let me talk about the preparedness in terms of the isolation centres. From the time WHO announced that COVID-19 was now a pandemic, Government went into the drive to prepare isolation centres to be used for treatment of patients. I am pleased to inform the House that of all the 10 provinces in our country, there are at least three centres available at various levels of completion in terms of rehabilitation. Most of these centres are now able to admit moderate to mild conditions with Harare and Bulawayo having the few centres that can admit the critical cases.
I must also touch on the issue of health human resources.
Pertaining to human resources, the Ministry is informing Parliament that 3 668 appointments have been made and processed out of 3 700 posts that were unfrozen by Treasury. The 45 unfilled posts largely comprise of skills which are not easily available in the local market. I also want to indicate that Old Mutual and Econet live are providing live cover to all frontline healthcare workers for the next six months with an option to continue on an individual basis after the six months.
The Ministry of Health and Child Care has submitted an additional request to Treasury for us to get 178 environmental health officers whom we require to be manning the ports of entry which are on a 24hr basis. I also want to point out that in each and every province, there is now going to be created quarantine centres strictly for returning convicts and people of a violent disposition.
Let me also highlight to you about the research that is being carried on within our institutions. We have heard about the Senegal research,
Madagascar portions. In Zimbabwe we have not been left behind. The Ministry is in partnership with the various research bodies, including the universities and will soon be publishing its findings so as to inform how as a country we have moved forward in the continued fight against COVID-19. The research also includes aspects of herbal medicines in the treatment of COVID-19. To that effect, guidelines to a clinical study of herbal medicines are now in place as recommended by the WHO. A criterion for pre-clinical evaluation of herbal remedies before clinical trials or observations has been included in the guidelines.
Lastly, I want to just highlight the issue of buses. Government has realised that there is a lot of passengers who were being delayed from going home or coming to work and therefore has allowed full load to alleviate the delays in moving the passengers who might end up in long queues where the chances of them being infected are high. However, by so doing, Government has put strict conditions on whoever has to get on that bus. Firstly, they have to be fully donned with a mask. The bus must be able to sanitise each and every passenger who gets into that bus; the bus itself must be fully sanitised...
HON. P. ZHOU: On a point of order Madam Speaker. This
House is governed by Standing Rules and Orders. I can see Hon Chibaya coming in with a mask on his face with triple CCC on it, which is not allowed in this House to come putting on such things. I request you Madam Chair, to ask him to leave the House. Thank you.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: As I was concluding, I was talking about the uses of the buses. Government has allowed full loads to alleviate delays in moving passengers who might end up in long queues and with no social distancing. So the buses themselves must also be well sanitised. We want an environment within that bus where there are no standing passengers where we only have those who are sitting. I thank you.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: My question is with regards to the testing that is going on. Is there may be a projection of increasing the testing? If they are still the same amount of testing they are doing, that is, 19 000 of the testing kits that were done and the 25 000 of the rapid ones. We want to know if there will be an increase in testing because 200 cases from 19 000 and 25 000, to me that is a bit worrying to hear that there is only 200 cases after this long with COVID-19.
HON. SIKHALA: Hon. Minister, out of the 15 million
Zimbabweans, you are telling this Parliament that since February when this disease visited us, you have only managed to do 19 237 PCR and 23 594 rapid tests. Comparatively with our own neighbours, Zambia and South Africa, South Africa has tested more than five million of its citizens now – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – So, how true are your statistics that in Zimbabwe we only have 203 cases of COVID-19? Can you tell this House that you statistics are correct in as far as the testing has happened? Very few people have been tested.
Secondly, you mentioned the issue of escapees from quarantine centres. We have obtained reports that there are many people who have escaped from quarantine centres. What have you done to follow up those people who have escaped from the quarantine centres for us to be reassured that wherever they are going, they will not contaminated other people.
My third clarification Hon. Minister, Madagascar has discovered a serum that has been given ovation in Africa where it has also been clinically tested that it can treat Coronavirus. What is the Government doing to give Zimbabweans who want to use that serum for purposes of COVID-19 prevention? How can you give Zimbabweans the
Madagascar serum so that our people who could have suffered and who want to prevent themselves from catching COVID-19 could have access to it? Thank you Madam Speaker. Machembere nyararai uko!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sikhala, please may you
withdraw that statement?
HON. SIKHALA: Withdrawn Madam Speaker.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My questions of
clarification are; what process is there for the private sector like private surgeries that are doing rapid testing? How do they feed into the portal of reporting the cases that are coming in from the private sector because we know that a lot of people particularly your more affluent
Zimbabweans go to private doctors and there are certain private doctors that are beginning to offer rapid testing but it does not look like there is a portal in which they can feed in the results so that globally, you do have the numbers.
The second one is now that we are going into winter, what are the scientific issues that are associated with ensuring that those that can get flu vaccines can do so. Would getting a flu vaccine not minimize the chances in that you know you will have particularly your young people that you want to go back to school? Should we not be considering the issue of a flu vaccine so that at least they do not have a cold and can spread the virus much more easily?
The third one is to do with the escapees. It is difficult to understand how, for example, those that are in quarantine centre that has a big wall and security are escaping unless there is corruption that is taking place. We know that at one time, I think it was your case number 14, the one associated with the old woman from Mhondoro. They were issues on social media that seemed to be saying that one of the escapees is the one who had made contact. That may not be true but there was information about who this person was because they arrived on a plane and did not go to quarantine. Why have we not been given those particular names?
The last one is following up on what Hon. Sikhala raised around the Madagascar thing. Why are we insisting to go scientific on this one when we can sell issues of herbal treatment? For example, we now have shops which sell ndolwane and it is alright. So, why are we going through this very difficult Eurocentric processes instead of just accepting the Madagascar one as a herbal treatment so that it is not set up as a treatment for COVID but more of what manages COVID? For example, we use zumbane and steam ourselves to help ourselves and it works. It looks like if we start waiting for WHO to certify this and say, scientifically, it has been proven, it will take a long time. Why not just make it a herbal treatment and run with it? Thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
clarifications from the Minister; firstly, it is to do with the level of testing within the various areas. In his Statement, he indicates that the returnees are the people that are mostly infected by COVID 19.
However, I want to ask the Minister, specifically looking from a
Constituency point of view. For instance, when you look at Dzivarasekwa, which I represent, there is no area or way in which people are being tested. At what stage are we going to see several tests being decentralised to districts or Constituency levels?
The second issue which I want clarification from the Hon.
Minister; I listened to his Ministerial Statement; you have indicated the commitment that the Government has done and the commitment from the donor partners. However, Hon. Minister, your statement does not answer the suspicion that people have with regards to your Ministry in particular and the Government in general that a lot of money is being abused in fighting COVID 19. What we want Hon. Minister is; can you be in a position to brief this august House on the amount of money that the Government has utilized? How much has been set for masks and test kits so that we can be in a position to see whether there is value for money. A case which has arisen is that which came that the Permanent Secretary in the Minitry of Finance had to write in terms of – is it
Drucknet? Yes, where masks were being quoted at USD28 and what we want you to tell us is the issue that was raised by Mr. Guvamatanga, the
Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development, the general outlook of how resources have been utilised. Could this explain why there is little or no testing happening from where we come from?
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would
like to firstly thank the Hon. Minister for his report. It is important that the report started by acknowledging the commitment that His Excellency has actually put in this COVID crisis. I think it is only fitting that this House also acknowledges that effort. I want to note two things, the first one being the efforts which are being put into the research process so that maybe, we can also locate ourselves within the solution that could be found.
Secondly, I would like to acknowledge the partnership that the Ministry has had with the insurance companies so that our health workers can be covered. I would like to know from the Minister, whether the coverage also includes our rural village health workers? I thank you.
*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like to thank the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care for the Statement. We are grateful for all the things that I have heard.
However, I am noting that in rural areas, the issue of awareness to
ensure that the community is alert and aware of the COVID 19 disease is very little. We are the Hon. Members who are trying to reach out but we do not have adequate resources. I do not know how the Hon. Minister can ensure that Hon. Members of Parliament are able to reach out to their constituencies for awareness purposes.
I wish you can emulate what our Health Ambassador is doing, Amai Auxillia Mnangagwa who is visiting all districts. If you emulate that strategy and equip us as Members of Parliament we will also do the same in our constituencies and it will be very helpful so that COVID 19 is made known in rural areas.
The other issue that is so painful Madam Speaker Ma’am is that of truck drivers which we call gonyeti here. These international truck drivers will bring us the COVID-19 disease because they carry passengers along the way as they travel. For example, the returnees are causing the number of COVID-19 cases to multiply and you are trying to contain it in quarantine centres. What are you doing concerning the international truck drivers? It is important that you team up with other line ministries’ officers responsible so that we do not hear of people escaping from quarantine centres. How do they get out? A mother with a child, how does that happen? There must be corruption taking place where money is being paid for that to happen. What measures are there to ensure that those responsible for security at the quarantine centres are not being bribed to release people? It seems as if the cases being reported is because someone must have opened the gate for them. We have heard that there are people with underlying conditions who are vulnerable to the disease. Some of us here do have those underlying conditions and we want the COVID to stay far away from us so that it does not infect us. Thank you very much.
*HON. T. ZHOU: Thank you Hon. Minister. Doctor Edwin Sibanda from Bulawayo who is the Director of Health Services has been quoted in the Government newspaper, the Chronicle saying, “there are three cases of medical students from NUST who have returned back to
Mpilo Faculty of Medicine”. It was reported that one of the students was from Mutare, the other from Mberengwa and the other from Bulawayo.
Hon. Minister, we want to understand whether these are local transmissions or not. What is happening? Where are these people coming from? If they are coming from Mberengwa, what have you done to ensure that these people are traced and ensure that the disease does not to spread the whole country? Thank you Hon. Minister.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Minister,
what is your target for your tests? How many people do you target to test in a month? When are you going to start doing random testing where you do not treat people specifically because they have come for treatment? Secondly, we have several task teams that go around the country sometimes just to go and see a 3 x 4 metres building being built. How much are we losing in allowances that we are paying non front line workers?
Why are we continuously using ordinary people to move around the country inspecting medical facilities that should be inspected by qualified medical people? Why are we not regularly updating the people of Zimbabwe giving them in detail? If you look around what happens in other countries so frequently we are advised what is happening, where it is happening and even the press are given an opportunity to ask penetrating questions so that it also triggers your thinking as to what needs to be done.
Why are we not allowing that to happen? We are also expecting people to open up their industries. Why do we expect the employers to pay for tests when the majority of the equipment that we have is donated? Why do we want employers to pay? Are we not making it virtually impossible for the economy to function or for industry to open which is another problem that we have? Lastly Minister, how many cases do we have that are actually hospitalized? Out of the active cases that we have, you have not disclosed to this House how many people we have who are hospitalised. This information will help us to understand how prepared we are now, considering that there is now an upsurge of infections. Under normal circumstances, if we look at the percentage from 53, we are now talking of 203. This might be frightening, there must be something terribly wrong that we are doing. Scientifically when do you think we can start seeing the infections going down? What do we call our curve at the moment?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker, I will start with the last question. How many are hospitalised, I want to say the hospitalization while we were ready with our isolation centre, for some time we did not have anyone in those isolation centres, until we started getting the returnees - that is when we managed to start getting people hospitalized. Those returnees in reality, they were mild to moderate cases; there was none who required critical care. They had to go through the hospitalization process so that we could be able to make a determination directly after having being tested at the quarantine. They had to come into a hospital environment for the purposes of further care and management before they were released to go and self isolate at home.
So the reality is, I have always said 85% of the cases will require management at home. They can be managed at home, 15% who are moderate can be taken into isolation centres for monitoring and medication, and 5% would require ICU care. So the 5% has not happened yet. The next issue is while they come out of the quarantine centre, they definitely have to go through those processes in the hospital.
For Harare, we have 31 cases who are admitted at Wilkins Hospital. However, they are now being cleared, given their medication to go and recuperate at home. These are mild cases which have come out of the quarantine areas.
Testing of employees by companies where you were suggesting that Government should meet the Bill. Government actually moved and said the major criteria now was for the companies to ensure that they are taking the temperatures, they are using the donning of masks, they are continuously checking on the sanitisation and the social distancing. So, Government did not make it mandatory. However, I want to point out that for the food industry, which is necessary. We all have to be protected, we do not want someone just handling your food at a take away when they are not tested. We always had the Public Health Act taking care of the food handlers and the hotel and catering industry.
That is mandatory, we are saying the Chicken Inns and all restaurants, those who serve food we have added COVID-19 to the list which was always there.
Everyone who works in the industry of food handling and catering industry have always been required by the Act to have chest X-rays checking for tuberculosis. Now we have this other contagious disease, it has to be added on. I want to also indicate that our target is 1000 cases tested per day and we are going to be moving in stages. In actual fact our staging was interfered with by the sudden return and realisation that there was a lot of positive cases coming out of the returnees. Otherwise by now we should have moved into the general population and so on. I said in my speech that we are now concentrating on the returnees, because we have discovered that is the major source of infection. So, we must check them out not only on day 8 but on day 1. Before it was rapids on day 1, day 8 PCR, day 21 PCR, now it is day 1 PCR; so that we know that the people who are cohabiting are all clean or those who are positive will be immediately moved out of the quarantine area. That is what the situation is Hon. Member.
Dr. E. Sibanda you quoted him saying there are 3 cases that had come from other areas, we just get the cumulative number for Bulawayo that information will come later with full details. We can always be in touch, in actual fact it will be listed on the report which comes out on a daily basis. Chiokomuhomwe, kubuda mughedhi requarantine – definitely, all those issues are now being looked into with much, much more preciseness. We do not want a situation where we will continue having people escaping especially when they end up being positive. So, the security has been stepped up. It is only for me to emphasize that the security has been stepped up and also the fencing around the facilities is being improved right now – CCTV and all the security measures are also being put in place.
The issue of the long distance haulage trucks (gonyetis), we are saying that all truck drivers have to be tested. It is mandatory that they be tested so that we do not end up with them spreading the disease all over the place. We also discovered at one time that our drivers who had travelled to Zambia were caught with the disease after having been tested there. Then when they came back here, we also tested them and they were positive. The truck drivers are a good medium of transfer of the disease or for transferring the infection. So they are now under the spotlight and each and every truck driver is also required by their neighbouring countries to be tested and have a certificate. If they are positive, then cannot go across the border.
Likewise, just to add on, the Immigration and ZIMRA officials – it is now mandatory that they be tested and also to make sure that they are all clean. At the borders, we have had complaints that we had not been testing and now we have had to test all those categories.
Awareness in the rural areas, our Ambassador of Health and Child Care has done very well – we thank her for that. She is doing that not just as a mother of the nation but also as the Ambassador for Health and Child Care. She is actually fulfilling the duties of the ministry as
Ambassador of Health and Child Care. We also want to encourage all of us to do the same. There is no need for us to be re-educated on COVID19, but we must go and educate our populations about COVID-19. This awareness is very essential in the rural areas.
Insurance policies, we have got the insurance policies from Old Mutual and Econet. We are also talking to them. Firstly, let me educate you on the purpose of the insurance – it is as a risk allowance.
Secondly, we have also said that the Village Health Workers should also get risk allowance. Risk affects everyone who is working closer to that patient. The risk - whether you are a doctor, an environmental health officer or a village health worker, the risk is the same. So the risk allowance is the same across the board.
There is an issue regarding the level of testing and decentralization to the districts – that is exactly what I indicated. We are aiming to go to the districts, utilizing the machine called the ‘Gene expert’ and we are also going to use another machine called the ‘Abbott machine’. We are in the process of decentralising. At least we have achieved what we set out to achieve. We started with two machines in Harare and then there was nothing in Bulawayo. Then we got a machine for Bulawayo and started testing in Bulawayo. We then got more machines in Harare from the university, other private institutions and the numbers blossomed.
Then we went 15 out in the provinces. So we are improving continually.
What is the issue which delays us is the issue of the availability of those test kits which however we are going to be able to acquire. I want to assure you that yes; we have received funding from Treasury. Treasury has allocated funds for us to be able to acquire more consumables and that is happening on a weekly basis i.e. consumables for the PPEs, testing materials and so forth.
The issue regarding to Drax – the utilisation of funds with Drax that is an issue, initially Drax was actually not involved in the COVID19 issue. The matter is being looked into by the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development, but as far as the Ministry of Health and Child
Care is concerned, our involvement – everything was done above board.
I want to also indicate to answer to the issue of the flu vaccine.
Why can it not be a solution? I just want to say that the flu vaccine is strictly for flu and not for COVID-19. So whoever has that flu vaccine will only be protecting themselves against flu but not against COVID19. Irrespective of the symptoms, if it is a flu that has attacked you – it will remain a flu and you will be cured but it is COVID-19 then it will take you on and be identified as COVID-19 through testing.
Therefore, it is necessary to say that there is no golden treatment for COVID-19. Every form of treatment that is there is on a trial and error basis …
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: On a point of order! I
think the Hon. Minister did not hear me at all… - [HON. DR. O.
MOYO: I have not finished yet.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Minister.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madame Speaker, I
think that the Hon. Minister did not understand where I was coming from. I was not saying that the flu vaccine is a treatment for COVID-19. I said that given the fact that we are now going into winter and there will be more people who will get the flu, we know that when you are going
to sneeze and have a cold – you are more likely to pass on the virus because you have got flu.
I am saying is the flu vaccine not an option to ensuring that at least we make sure that people do not have a cold because when people have a cold this is why they advise us to stay at home when you have a cold so that you are not infectious. I did not say that it is a treatment for COVID-19. I merely said that as a way of managing the fact that we then become more infectious when we have the flu.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you very much for that clarification. What you said is exactly what has to be done just to reduce the flu infections. I will not add anymore to what the Hon. Member said. What she clarified is exactly what has to be done.
There is the issue of herbal remedies as well. The herbal remedies, yes we are looking into herbal remedies, as I indicated, through our research protocols. Even though we are saying that Madagascar has got their own remedy, but still when they wanted to sell or distribute the product to other countries, the World Health Organisation (WHO) advised them that they have to follow the protocol. It is standard for
WHO, they will never say, ‘Yes, go and use it’… - [HON. SIKHALA: Inaudible interjection.] – Hold on, I have not finished. They will always say that, ‘Go and follow a clinical trial’.
In our case, we have been offered – that is what I indicated and we are actually looking at going to get some of the product. So that we can utilise it and at the same time, we are also saying those Zimbabweans who feel that they have got the remedies, no one is stopping them as long as they are registered. Anyone can approach a herbalist and be able to get the medicine, no one will stop you, but they must be registered practitioners – that is the key issue and there is that access.
There was a question on the private sector rapid testing. How do they report into the Ministry of Health and Child Care? Each and every private sector testing centre, laboratory, surgery or whatever who want to test has to register with the Ministry. They are given the guidelines on how they have to test.
Firstly, they cannot test utilising test kits that are not registered with the Ministry and have not been validated by the Ministry. Secondly, those results have got to be submitted everyday at 1600 hours through a portal to the Ministry of Health and they have to do that. If they do not submit those results they will be removed from the testing processes. That is what happens. It is a very stringent manner of getting all those results and building on to our statistics.
What is being done to follow up escapees? The escapees are indicated that the security services have now been increased. At the same time, there has been apprehension of those who have escaped from the quarantine areas and some have been caught and brought back. That is the good thing. They have to be fined for that purpose. There is a process and the department of Home Affairs is working strictly hard to ensure that there is no more escapees and that for those who escaped they are being followed and will be brought to book. We must also emphasise the fact that whenever you see someone who might have been outside and they suddenly appear, we have to make sure we report them to the police so that they can be sent back.
There was fear that our statistics might not be as they should. I want to assure you that on the basis of South Africa, it is not five million cases. In South Africa, they are currently at 764 thousand cases plus who were tested and out of that, 35 812 are the ones who tested positive.
So the Hon. Member’s information needs to be corrected and aligned appropriately. How true are our statistics? We determined that on the basis of the number of deaths. If suddenly we had a huge jump of deaths then we would have a worry. We have also had to check on the number of deaths.
It is a reality that on the basis of the patient population that we have tested, Zimbabwe has come up with the 200 cases. If you look at the testing we were carrying out before the returnees, you will find out that it was also at the ratio. The number of extra returnees that we tested yielded a spike in the number of cases which shows that we were working within appropriate parameters. However, if we had the resources, we would want to test the whole nation. Everyone would be tested but it is the resources that are limiting. There is a huge gap in our resource capability, therefore we end up doing the random and what is called hot spotting. If we find out that there has been a lot of cases arising from one area during a short period, we do what is called hot spotting like we did with the Mhondoro clan. We went there and hot spotted all the villages around where the case had been identified. That is the situation Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to seek clarity from the Hon. Minister with regards to why it is taking so long to release the names of those who have escaped from quarantine centres. I thank you.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The question that I would like to seek clarity on is on corruption pertaining to quarantine centres. I understand that recently there was chaos at
Masvingo Technical Teachers’ College after someone who was on quarantine was left to go after being in detention for less than a week.
What is the Ministry doing to take action upon such cases whereby people must comply and stay for the mandatory days in the quarantine centres?
Secondly, what measures are they taking pertaining to shops that are not supermarkets such as boutiques that have just started opening? Some of the shops are not taking measures like taking temperatures and other serious measures. What is the Ministry doing to ensure those shops comply?
Finally, at Masvingo Teachers’ College, there was a story that a lot of people who came from South Africa spent more than two weeks but never got their results. They only got their results after some chaos. What happens when people take so long to get their results? I thank you.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. What I would like to ask the Minister is – is there anything we can do pertaining to some people who would like to travel to other countries be it on business or official. The other thing is, some people who crossed illegally now want to come back even if they crossed out of the country illegally and they want to come back legally. Is there anything that we can do to ensure that they come back safely and formally? Is there a possibility for a waiver to them so that we ensure that we maintain protection against COVID-19?
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have two questions which I seek clarification from the Minister. Firstly Mr. Speaker, we have tested so many people positive but ever since people have been testing positive, only four have died and several are recovering but they are not being treated. Is the Minister compiling information from those people who are recovering? What are they doing for them to recover since they are not being treated? They are quarantined at their homes on self isolation but that information of what they have done to survive the disease seems not to be coming out public of which I think it is very necessary. Where is this information residing?
Secondly, I know there are health protocols, secrecy and the like but the challenge we have in the reporting structure of those who are infected is the fact that if somebody tests positive, it is just written ‘Case number 1’. Now, I do not know who Case No. 1 is. It could have been Hon. Mliswa here. If it was mentioned that it is Hon. Mliswa, then I would remember that yesterday we were together in Parliament. I was sitting next to him and would then make an effort myself to get screened. Is there no way these anonymous could be made slightly public? After all Corona is not an obnoxious or embarrassing disease like all others. If somebody tests positive to malaria nobody gives a damn. Why do we not have a mechanism of making sure that the person who tested positive is known so that those who were in close contact with him can immediately self prevent than to wait for the positive case to indicate to the health officials that I went to such and such a place and then they start following up. I really find the way information is being reported needs a bit of improving taking into account all the health secrecy and privacy. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of clarification to the Hon.
Minister is - we seem to be having problems with rapid results kits.
Why do we not do away with them and just stick to PCR because they are creating problems as you would appreciate that you will get tested and it goes negative but you go to PCR, it is positive. It misleads people who are now tested with the rapid results kits because once you are negative, you then relax but with the PCR you become positive. Why do we not do away with them so that we go to the real issue?
The other issue is about frontline staffers, we have got civil servants coming back – we had kits that we said must be used to prioritise these. We even came up with that list of who should be tested in terms of frontline staffers. Now children are in school, the teachers have not been tested and so forth. The real issue at the end of the day is, Minister do you think it is worth what we are doing if we do not have resources to keep on opening certain institutions, schools and so forth? Is prevention not better than cure because this disease seems to be one that we can live with? Why do we not come up with ways of co-existing with it instead? How can we come up with a mechanism of co-existing with it because what we hear out there and here are two different things?
The climatic conditions in Europe, there are always locked down because it is cold. You cannot open a window whereas here we have not been told about the good of us being here from a climatic point of view so that people do not panic at the end of the day. When it started, I think there was some panic amongst the people, which is true but going on and we can co-exist with it. You have just talked of some who have recovered. What has it taken for them to recover and so forth?
Do we need these quarantine centres that are there because they seem to be the problem? They have become the epicenters for this Coronavirus. There is a case in Norton which we know very well and was reported, of someone who was at the quarantine centre. After seven days at the centre, this person was released before the test results were out yet we had worked so hard to try and contain it and all that.
Minister, we have it on record that the Chinese factory in Norton has got 500 black workers who are there and are not moving. Four or five workers are sharing one bed. I implore you to immediately visit this place tomorrow. The conditions these people are living in are inhumane.
It is if they are in a prison. I got reports from people who are there saying, ‘Honourable, please come and help us’. No matter how much money we are making from an institution, it is not worth us inviting such a virus to be able to spread to other areas.
I am glad you clarified the issue on the DRACs international and all that. It is the Ministry of Finance which has to come up with that. Moving forward, I think we should have an accepted price of things so that we know exactly that if you are going to sell to Government for this, it will cost this much and so forth because this DRACs international issue, if you look at the inflated prices, they are the ones that make the black market rate go up. Government must find foreign currency to be able to pay for it. I am glad that it really resides in the office of the Ministry of Finance.
Lastly, why have we as Members of Parliament not been tested because we are always with the people? Are we not a risk to the people?
Are we not frontline staffers? This institution on its own is an epicenter.
You can see how people interact. On a lighter note, Hon. Gabbuza said Hon. Mliswa might give him COVID. It is actually him that I am more worried about because he was out there in Hwange where there are more animals and so forth. Now, I do not know after he visited us today what will happen. We meet with people out there and once you do that for us, it will set a barometer or indicator of how deadly the virus is in the constituencies that we are in and so forth.
The frontline staffer needs to be taken care of. Where there is no remuneration, let us guarantee them good health and we need to test.
Those will be my contributions. I thank you.
*HON. TSUNGA: I would like to know the role of the task force in our constituencies vis a vis responsibility of the Ministry of Health and Child Care in the bigger schemata of things as regards COVID 19.
We do not know what is happening in our constituencies. We do not know the returnees who are being brought to the quarantine centres in our constituencies and we do not have the statistics. We do not know what is being done in isolation centres or PPEs and what is required there, yet we are representatives of the people in these areas. I would like to know whether the role of task forces has nothing to do with Members of Parliament and their constituencies so that they are updated with regards to COVID 19 quarantine centres. These task forces are not giving us information when we ask for it.
HON. T. MOYO: I would like to seek clarification on two issues.
The first one concerns the border line between Zimbabwe and South Africa. It is very long; is it not prudent for the Ministry of Health to deploy troops or to use drones? The most dangerous returnees are those who do not use the formal routes so that we can deter those who are using the informal routes to reduce COVID-19. The second issue is opening of schools which is now imminent Hon. Speaker. We want to know who is going to fumigate schools that are being used as quarantine centres. Is it the school development committees or is it the Ministry of Health and Child Care? What is the budget like for that? The other issue is on compulsory testing of teachers, students and support staff. Do you have enough test kits because one of our recommendations in the Portfolio Committee on Primary and Secondary Education is we want to see all students, support staff and teachers who are returning to school being tested. Do we have adequate test kits for that?
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question to
the Minister of Health and Child Care is how long does it take to test a returnee when they are at a quarantine centre and how long will it take to get the results. What is the time frame from testing to getting the results?
The police arrested about 90 border jumpers. Is there anything that you are doing to have the numbers of those border jumpers that were not arrested by the police? How many have been arrested from their houses?
* HON. MADHUKU: My questions to the Minister are on resources. How much resources does your Ministry have because we hear of so many reports being made by communities pertaining to border jumpers who just come and stay within communities without passing through the proper routes. It looks as though when the community reports to the police and the health officials, they do not have resources to go and check on those people to ensure they are not a threat to the community. Reports are made but it seems there are no resources to follow up on these returnees.
Secondly, in order for these officials to go to the communities to get information on the border jumpers’ exact whereabouts, it seems to take a lot of time or they do not even get there. So probably it is the resources that restrain them from doing so.
Lastly, can the Minister elaborate on the issue of buses where he said it was resolved that buses will be carrying full capacity, meaning there will be no social distancing. Does it mean the rule of social distancing is being disregarded as long as the passengers have masks, temperature screened and sanitised? Why then do we here in Parliament continue to observe social distancing yet those in buses coming from all over the place are being allowed to be packed in buses like sardines.
*HON. SACCO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of clarity from the Minister is to do with the capacitation of district centres. In our districts, at times there are no ventilators or oxygen tanks for COVID-19 patients. What is the Ministry’s policy on capacitation of district centres? For example in Chimanimani, we have Mutambara Hospital but it does not have facilities to treat COVID-19 patients. What measures do you have in place so that people are treated in district centres? The other question is about testing. What is the policy pertaining to decentralising testing to districts? I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. RAIDZA: My clarification from the Minister is on boozers soccer. What is the Ministry doing so that that soccer is not played in towns and rural areas since it was placed on the high risk category in sport? We continue to get reports that some professional soccer players are engaged in playing boozers’ soccer games.
*HON. SEWERA: My question to the Minister of Health and Child Care is to do with church hospitals such as St Pauls Musami. We can see that the concentration of isolation centres and distribution of drugs is concentrated on Government hospitals. On the ground, church hospitals are feeling the pinch because they are the ones closer to the people. The staff is inadequate and even provision of food is now a burden. My question is, can Government not takeover some of those hospitals or what is Government’s policy on such issues?
*HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Mr Speaker Sir. I will start with the last question. You said hospitals like Musami are not getting adequate medication. The President instructed us to ensure that even mission hospitals should get supplies just like government hospital. So, this is an issue that we are supposed to solve through our Provincial Medical Director. He is the one in charge of ensuring that all clinics and hospitals, be they mission or government, should get the same distribution that will have been sourced by the taskforce at the central level. So I ask that you continue to liaise with the PMD to assist in the equitable distribution of everything. Actually I have been waiting for this week’s distribution list; so I will bring your issue to the forefront. There are some others who gave me a list of six clinics that had not also gotten PPEs. We want everyone to get a bit of everything so that if there is someone with symptoms, they can easily handle the case because they will have the masks and all that is required.
On the issue of boozers football – I will sit down with Hon. Coventry because there are limits which were given but these were not for everyone. Now that you have highlighted it, I have written it down for further discussion with the Minister of Youth, Sport, Art and Recreation so that we can see how to control it.
Capacitation and isolation at district level and decentralisation of testing to the districts – we are in the process of decentralisation of our testing scheme to the district. Maybe the Hon. Member might have been outside when I answered. I actually indicated that we are gradually decentralising. We started at the central level, provincial level and we are going to the district level and also to the clinic level eventually utilising that machine called the gen expert which is available at the district hospitals. What we are lacking are the PCR test kits which are used on the gene expert. We have got the machine but it is a machine which comes from America. To us, that machine was actually donated, so when we place an order for the kits, they look at those countries which paid for their machines first. Ours is a donation, so we will be on the lowest rung of priority. This is what the problem is always. There is a huge competition for these test kits. That is why we are now saying let us go east. Let us try east rather than just staying on west. We also want to go east and see what we can get from there.
Likewise, what we have done is we have identified the main isolation centres in a province where people can be transferred if they are critical, the 5%. However, for the general mild to moderate, we have said each and every district hospital should have at least two beds, one room where we can do that isolation. That is the story.
No social distancing in the buses; we are saying we are going to have a much more stricter disinfection process within the buses and much stricter donning of the masks without failure and this should be buses which are just going short distances so that we do not expose our people. You find that if we were to leave the people outside the queues, that is where they could get more infection. At least when they are going in the bus, temperature is checked, they are excluded of the illness, the donning of the mask and then the short distances within the towns.
We want to talk about the border jumpers, no transport to go and attend to the various border jumpers who would have been identified. Yes, it is true. We know it becomes a challenge in a community when we hear a person has escaped from a quarantine centre coming from South Africa. We alert the police but they have no vehicle to attend to that case. These are the reports that we get. We want to make sure that such a situation does not happen.
Regarding border posts, Government is looking at introducing drones, cameras which will be circulating identifying such loopholes. Then we have the utilisation of physical patrols and technological patrols using these drones. These are developments that we are expecting to happen.
How long does it take to test? For the rapid tests, it is 15 minutes but naturally there was a tendency of people utilising rapid tests which would not have been approved or validated and then they end up with the wrong results. However, for the PCR test, it varies. For the gene expert, it is likely shorter maybe up to an hour or so and then for the other machines, they take five hours to come up with the results. So we need to increase the number of testing platforms so that we can be able to test more people in the shortest possible time. The key issue is the turnaround time so that people can be able to receive their results on time. That is what we are trying to improve and at the same time, there are also some other rapid test kits which are being tested in other countries like America and the UK. We are waiting to see the performance of those rapid testing kits then we might be able to adopt
that.
Definitely, the schools have to be disinfected without any doubt and we have an agreement with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education that those conditions or measures must be met. Those measures must be put in place. The only thing that we would have wanted to do is to have the teachers being tested as well as the students. So, we settled for the issue where they are just coming for the examinations and immediately after examinations back home. Just to stay at the examination centre the shortest possible time and then go back home. So we are working together with Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to make sure that there is thorough disinfection of the facilities and the toilets and all those things.
The schools can also not bring the whole school but only those who are taking examinations so that they can be able to spread them out in the classrooms where the other who would normally be there would be absent so that you can have 10-15 students in a classroom and spread them around. There is a strong inspection measure which is planned and right now the process is ongoing in preparation for the pupils to come back.
The issue of the local taskforce to work with the local Member of Parliament is exactly what we want. We want the taskforce of each and every province to involve Members of Parliament and also for the
Members of Parliament to link up with the Provincial Medical Director. You must not hesitate to link up with the PMD because he is the one who coordinates everything that happens at each and every clinic and every district hospital. So, I encourage very strongly for Members of Parliament to stay in tune and in touch with the Provincial Medical Director, and it will also help in terms of distribution of products, PPEs, gowns, gloves and masks.
We have to look after our frontline staffers definitely and we are making sure that as soon as we get any PPEs, it is equitably distributed countrywide. So we want to see PPEs arriving at the district and clinic level. It is very critical and it is through the help that we get from you as Members of Parliament and the feedback by you making contact with the PMDs that we can be able to achieve that task.
The issue regarding the testing of the Members of Parliament; Mr. Speaker Sir, definitely I mentioned right at the beginning of my presentation that it is critical that we all get tested and it is a pity that tomorrow is the last day. We are adjourning but we want to make sure that on the first or second day of resumption of Parliament, we have to have tests done, everyone must be tested. We need to collect a list and the testing will help us to increase our statistics and know the condition of the person next to you. Obviously, once they are positive, they will be excused from Parliament but do not run away from testing. We have to be tested all of us so that we stay clear and do not spread the disease.
At the same time, we are going to be publicising the names. You were asking why the names are not being publicised, it is because of confidentiality? We say COVID-19 is a contagious disease. It is a notifiable disease so everyone has to know who has the disease. Whoever has the disease must be made public so it is not like HIV which is a different category. This COVID-19 is a contagious disease which is notifiable. So, you will find very soon we will be publicising the names. This is an issue which was also discussed in Cabinet yesterday. There is a need for us to publicise all those who are COVID19 positive.
The Chinese in Norton to do PCR – we need to do PCR on all those Chinese and the intention is that company with 500 people, we want to encourage them to buy PCR machines themselves and the kits. They can be able to bring those from China quite easily so that we test all their workers. There is a huge population at one time. Again, I want to say once we get them to test all their workers, it is better statistics for us.
Is it relevant to open the schools? Yes, on the basis of what we have said with strict measures and then we see how it goes. We have said that the health workers will be stationed at the schools on a continuous basis with the environmental health officers making sure that everything is being done properly. We have had other countries where they opened the schools and there was a huge spike of positive cases.
Point of clarification on the rapid results tests; like I said, they must be valid and they cannot just be used on a willy-nilly basis and they are not for self testing. They have to be utilised by registered personnel. This COVID is a contagious disease which is notifiable. You will find that very soon we will be publicising the names. It is an issue which was also discussed in Cabinet yesterday. There is need for us to publicise all those who are COVID 19 positive.
The Chinese in Norton – we need to do a PCR on all of them and the intention is that the company has 500 people and we want to encourage them to buy a PCR machine themselves and the kits. They can be able to bring that from China easily so that we test all their workers. There is a huge population. Once we get them to test all their workers, it is a better statistics for us.
Front line teachers to be tested – we have covered that. Is it relevant to open schools? Yes, on the basis of what we have said, with strict measures and then we see how it goes. We have said that the health workers will be stationed at the schools on a continuous basis. Environmental health officers will be making sure that everything is being done properly. We have had other countries which, after opening schools, there was a huge spike of positive cases.
Point of clarification; the rapid results test – as I said, they must be valid and they cannot just be used on a willy-nilly basis and they are not for self testing. They have to be utilised by registered personnel who can be able to interpret the results and at the same time, we are saying they are for epidemiological surveys, for surveillance purposes. The
PCR is the main test that we are encouraging everyone to move to. The rapids will find their way and essence in the evaluation process, like the surveillance processes in epidemiological studies. If you want to know exactly what is happening, just a rough picture of what is happening to a population, you utilise the rapids and then if they test positive you then go to the PCR testing. So they are for research and epidemiological surveys.
The other question was on the issue of recovering: what are they doing and how are they doing it? We are saying all those who are recovering at home are still assigned to a doctor and the doctors will visit them and give them medication; antibiotics are being administered, pain relief medicine and so on. Naturally, people will always find means and ways of finding other remedies and you cannot stop them. The most important thing is that we have also had some recoveries.
Zimbabweans abroad who want to come back to Zimbabwe, we said they can come back home. There is no restriction for Zimbabweans to come back home, they can come back at any time and go through the process. That process is very necessary for us to be able to sieve out and create that buffer before they are allowed to go home. If they are positive, they will have to go through the isolation centres for check up and further instructions on the management of their condition.
Masvingo delay in results; this was due to the shortage which we experienced of test kits, but this was eventually taken care of. Measures at shops like boutiques: these boutiques and shops – I can even start talking about the major shops anyway. What we want to see at the major shops is that there is no supermarket which should allow someone who is not wearing a mask. The supermarket must also have in stock, sanitisers and they must not have more than 50 customers at a time. So we expect queues which have social distancing outside that particular supermarket or shop. Likewise, for the boutiques, there has to be thorough checks of temperature and they must not take too many clients at any one time. This is where people stay for a long time and we want to really make sure that social distancing is practiced in these small units. Sanitization on a continuous basis and all the other measure have to be put in place and it is up to that shop owner to make sure that the sanitisation, temperature checks - the gadgets are there for them to be able to check out.
Corruption, possibly at the quarantine centres; considering that there are some people who might have been let out; yes, anything is possible with human beings. However, what I want to say is; we have now emphasised to the police that the security must be intensified. So there is intensity of the security services at all these institutions, the quarantine centres. Proper documentation of the returnees; there was a time when you would get mixing of ex-convicts with regular persons, that we have made sure that it does not happen. Everyone has to be assessed appropriately and registered.
The first question which was the issue regarding the publicizing of names; that is going to happen, you will see the names. In actual fact, we already have the list of names; we have the list of the 203 people, where they come from, when they got the disease, their age and so on.
So, whether they were local or it was imported, all that is available.
That is the information which we shall certainly make public so that you know that whoever is sitting next to you is a safe person or a danger. If they are a danger, you have to know why they are out and not selfisolating at that particular time. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
I hope I have explained the situation thoroughly and updated the Members of Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Let me also thank the Hon.
Minister for bringing this Statement and also thank Hon. Members for remaining in the House and observing COVID guidelines. Thank you very much.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON.
RAIDZA, the House adjourned at Fourteen Minutes Past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 2nd June, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to draw the attention of the House to an error on today’s Order Paper where notice of Motion
No.34 was erroneously repeated as notice of Motion No.35.
Consequently Notice of Motion No.35 is deleted with the rest of the
Notices of Motion and Orders of the Day re-numbered accordingly.
*HON. MAKONYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
privilege is to do with the illegal taxis (mushikashika), which transport people and were banned from moving by the Hon. President in this time of COVID-19. We can see some of these cars moving illegally. Just last week, a mushikashika Toyota Wish was involved in an accident. It was coming from Gweru and was travelling to Bulawayo. This car killed four people and the other four were injured. What I am seeing is that those tasked to look at the laws are not doing so religiously in terms of checking cars travelling along our roads. Inside the Toyota Wish were eight people but if you look at the size of that car, there was no social distance there. It means the people were packed in that car. So what this means is that whilst we are trying to curb COVID-19, some people are busy trying to contract the disease.
I also wish to talk about magonyeti which are also causing COVID-19. We know they were allowed to ferry food stuffs from other countries for our survival. It is good because it will keep hunger away but they are also now giving people lifts thereby bringing back the disease also because we do not know whether the people they carry are COVID-19 free or not. These magonyeti pass through road blocks but they still pass through with their passengers from whichever town. They are also charging exorbitant prices of $300. The President of Zimbabwe had done well by appointing ZUPCO to be the recognised public transporter. My plea is for these buses to be increased and also for our local buses such as Tenda, Beta, Inter-Africa, Trip-Trans to be engaged so they can also ferry people from afar. There are so many things that will make people want to travel. So we cannot entirely stop people from travelling because they have to travel for different reasons. Currently transport is inadequate, so I am imploring the President to ensure there are buses in each town designated to travel from say Mutare on Monday, Wednesday and Friday for all wanting to travel to Harare. I think that will be useful in curbing the COVID-19 disease. Also can these buses be sanitised before leaving the garage and furthermore, sanitise the people before they enter the bus. Social distancing should be practised whereby, on a two seater bench, only one person should sit there and on three seater bench, two people should sit there. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I have taken note
of what you have raised. You touched on important things, especially with what we are faced with during this COVID-19 - but the issues that you have
touched on involve two ministries: Transport and Home Affairs. So, I urge you to raise those questions during time Question Time.
HON. NDIWENI: Madam Speaker, my point of privilege hinges on an item that we budgeted for. It was approved in the budget but funds have not been disbursed as yet. There was an item on constituency visits and funds for running constituency offices. Members of Parliament from either side are having problems visiting their constituencies effectively as they are hamstrung because of finances. Madam Speaker, we urge Parliament to follow up this budget item which was approved, so that it can facilitate Members of Parliament to do their work effectively. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Ndiweni, you
have raised a very valid point. I will take it up with the responsible authorities so that they will solve that issue.
*HON. P. MOYO: My point of privilege is that I would like to implore the Minister of Home Affairs to come to this august House and give a Ministerial Statement regarding violence against women in the country, particularly the three young ladies who were abducted and taken to wherever and beaten. We want the Minister to come and address this House clarifying circumstances surrounding that particular issue. There is also another issue of women in Bulawayo who were beaten up by police when they had gone to buy food. I have noticed that violence against women is continuing unabated. For that reason, we request the Minister to address this House. We want women to be free because they were created as weaker vessels and cannot defend themselves. I am saying this because this is a continuing trend which is being perpetrated by culprits.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Moyo, the issue that you have raised was raised last week in your absence by Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga and this issue is still under investigation by the police, so we wait to hear the outcome then the issue will be taken to court.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you to the Khupes and Mwonzoras who are present. Madam Speaker, I would like to address Hon. Members that since we were told to put on our masks, when addressing the House we do not have to remove our masks. My point of privilege is that during this
COVID-19 pandemic, we are not allowed to gather in crowds of more than 50 people. I would like to say that the MDC-T party which has recalled people, after recalling they should replace those Hon. Members – [HON. P.
MOYO: On a point of order] – handizive kuti ndakanganisa here kuti the
Khupes and Mwonzoras –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Chinotimba? – [HON. P. MOYO: Point of order Madam Speaker. We do not have the Mwonzoras and Khupes here.] – Hon. Chinotimba, the issue you are raising is before the courts so we cannot discuss it here. However, your first point regarding putting on masks is true and everyone should adhere to that.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Madam Speaker, I would also like to say that all Hon. Members in this august House cannot go to their rural areas because most filling stations are selling their diesel in USD. The coupons that we are getting from Parliament are no longer serving their purpose. So I would like to suggest that Hon. Members be allocated a particular filling station, for example CMED garage using coupons because we have gone around garages and most filling stations are requesting USD, yet we do not have the USD. I would like to ask that Parliament assists us on that matter.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chinotimba but
the issue was raised last week.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My
point of privilege is to welcome our colleagues who have been absenting themselves illegally from Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and to urge them to continue to think properly and have common sense prevail each time they come back to Parliament. Thank you very much.
+HON. MATHE: Thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity that you have given me. I would like to commend the way in which Parliament managed to conduct itself in the last days to date. That is my prayer Madam Speaker, that Parliament should always be an august House as it has always been. We have conducted our business in an orderly fashion, listening to each other in an orderly manner and enjoying our business. The public is not happy when we argue unnecessarily here.
I would like to remind Parliament to continue as it has been of late.
We do not want a situation that does not promote productive business.
We want productive business to be conducted here for the progress of
Zimbabwe. I am happy for another Member of Parliament who said that the President, Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa worked hard to give us ZUPCO buses. That is an indication of maturity in that Member of Parliament.
May we continue to build the country. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mathe, you
spoke like an Hon. Member who is mature. What you said is very true. Business was conducted well last week. We look forward to the same spirit which obtained last week to continue; the spirit of dedication to our work in fulfillment of what the people and the generality of Zimbabweans are looking for instead of us coming here to engage in squabbles which do not help anyone when we are being paid money by the Government and not doing any work. For those who do not understand the language used by the speaker, may you ask those who are conversant with it.
+HON. S. K. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity. My point of privilege is that coupons be dispatched on Tuesday so that we can be able to source fuel since it is scarce. Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mguni. We
will submit your issue to the administration of Parliament so that it can be looked into.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker
Ma’am. I am sorry that I have not been attending Parliament for quite some time. It is because I was not feeling well, but now I am much better. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I would like to request you to continue praying for me and I hope that I am going to be fine.
My point of privilege is that this august House should assist the Government, Ministers, the Executive and the President with ideas that are constructive. I am saying this because I have been observing that the lockdown was announced after one person had passed on. The Government decided to close all the industries which were supposed to generate revenue for the country. Having closed companies, the number of COVID 19 infected people has now risen beyond 100. What will the Government do if this number continues to escalate? We need to look for preventive measures. I know that most of us are educated but we cannot wprk with financial figures only; we also need to take stock of people’s livelihoods by looking at issues to do with food security.
Madam Speaker, there are some ideas that come from people that are proferred to the Government but such ideas are detrimental to the success of governance. For example, the premature lockdown affected operations in companies because it seems as if we put our own sanctions on our own economy.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matambanadzo, it now
seems as if you are debating.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Alright Madam Speaker, I hope
my point has been heard, that we should proffer good and purposive ideas. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon.
Matambanadzo. We thank God that now you are feeling well, we will continue to pray for you until you have fully healed. What you have said in connection with the first phase of our COVID-19 lockdown, we believe our Hon. President does not make decisions alone. He will first consult with scientists and doctors that are well informed on COVID-19 issues. We believe that the stance taken by Government helped us so much because right now the cases that we have are of people that are coming outside the country. We do not have cases of people who are in the country who have not travelled anywhere.
What you have mentioned about hunger, I want to say that this disease is not only affecting Zimbabwe but world-wide, hence the whole world is experiencing hunger. I have heard what you have said and I want to thank you for your contribution.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of
privilege?
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of
privilege is on people who steal farm produce. If possible, I wanted the
Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to come to this House and make deterrent sentences for people who steal farm produce, like the one given to people who steal live stock. It is because livestock and crops in this time of COVID-19 are being stolen. Looking at the Agrarian Reform Programme of 2000, the issue of mandatory sentence on theft of livestock helped black farmers to farm and stay at their farms. This did not help those farmers who only produce crops and do not keep livestock and up to now, they continue to lose their crops through theft. I am thinking that if deterrent sentences are passed to people who steal farm produce, this will help farmers so that we will not have a reversal of the Agrarian Reform Programme of 2000.
If we are to look at rape cases, deterrent cases are being given. The miner and farmer dispute must also be looked at through the amendment of the Mines and Minerals Act. I am appealing that deterrent sentences be passed to farm produce thieves.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. I
am asking you that you present this as a motion that will be debated in this House. It is a good suggestion but must be brought in this House as a motion.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of
privilege?
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you for giving me this opportunity.
The welfare of Members of Parliament seems to be an ongoing agenda. I have never known of any agenda which continues and never stops. On fuel, considering that this institution is one of the three pillars of the State; we do everything, we pass budgets and so forth. We are not asking for anything extra but for the office of the Members of Parliament to be respected. We have no respect in the public. We are seen in the queues with drums. We do not sell that fuel but we use it so that it enables us to get here. This issue has come to you so many times but still we are dealing with it now. CMED, which service station do we go to? Other Members of Parliament are not here because there is no fuel, that is the truth of the matter. They are standing in the queues and all that. So when will you as our leaders take us seriously and take this institution seriously that we have a mandate to deliver. How can we deliver when we have no resources to get here?
Fortunately for you VIPs and that is why we end up starting to now look at your offices, you are well taken care of, murikudya anababa asi vana havasi kudya. So what kind of a country is this? You do not have to queue for fuel because there are arrangements for you to go and get fuel. We must also be given fuel where you get fuel because one day you will come to find there is no single Member of Parliament who will be here. What do you think you will be doing? We are asking that you take this matter seriously. We are given fuel coupons but there is no fuel so, why are we being given those coupons?
We are not paid in foreign currency and if we are to convert our salaries to US dollars, it is now US$50, this money is not enough to sustain us and you are failing as our leaders to review this. You go and sleep comfortably knowing that your Members of Parliament are getting US$50 but I assure you God will hear us. These are issues that are troubling us, we have not yet been allocated stands and some Members of Parliament do not have cars but Ministers have been allocated two cars. How do you honestly expect us to discharge our duties? We asked that Parliament disburse Constituency Development Fund during this COVID-19 era. Now people are saying that Members of Parliament do not have a heart for the people they represent because it is not all of us who own businesses. Some can survive from proceeds from their businesses but what about those Members of Parliament who do not have businesses. People will then say they are neglecting them.
What I am to say also is that we must not go to the extent of taking each other to court and it is not a threat. I am prepared to go to court when Members of Parliament are not tested because I must safeguard myself and my family. What are you doing as Parliament to ensure that each Member of Parliament is safe here? We do not want this issue of using thermometers, this does not work, we want the actual tests. We are the ones that reach people. If we are found positive, then we stop spreading this disease to people, we isolate ourselves. What are you doing as Parliament to make sure that all Parliament Members are tested? We are 350 and it is only 350 kits needed so that we know where we stand because we cannot continue like this. I want to know the action that you will take from tomorrow. If you do not do that, I am going to make an urgent High Court application so that Parliament will stop sitting until everyone has been tested because the cases are increasing.
On information centres, when will funds be released? A lot of money is being channeled to corrupt people. The money is not coming to Members of Parliament to execute their duties. Money for people to do corruption is there but money for Members of Parliament to execute their duties is not there. We cannot be a Parliament that approves money that will be stolen. We want the Executive to look into this. I as an independent candidate will say what I want because no one will chase me away but I will be speaking also on behalf of everyone so that they will not be chased away. I will take the responsibility. This is unbecoming because it is now like a crime to be a Member of Parliament in Zimbabwe, we are not respected.
I also want to talk about the issue of the opposition. On the side of the MDC-T, there is no Chief Whip and this Parliament has become a ridicule out there. These Hon. Members who are here, why are they not being given the portfolio? Why are Hon. Sen. Mwonzora and Madame Khupe not giving them the job? What are they failing to do that has not warranted them to be given the job? We need an Opposition Chief Whip in order for this Parliament to be known to be a Parliament or else we are a laughing stock out there.
We also need a Leader of Government Business from the Opposition. I brought it up because this Parliament cannot function without a Chief Whip and Leader of Government Business from the Opposition. So why are they taking time to appoint? I do not know because all these Hon. Members are experienced. Hon. Vincent Tsvangirai is coming and he knows what he is doing. So when is that going to happen so that they Parliament is known as Parliament at the end of the day?
These are my points of privileges that I had and I need answers because last week the Hon. Speaker promised that he was going to engage the Opposition so that appoint a Chief Whip. We cannot continue like this, thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. I
will start with the last issue that you raised. I think the Hon. Speaker responded and said that the appointment of the Opposition Chief Whip does not involve the Hon. Speaker. It is within their purview.
On the issue of fuel for Hon. Members, I think it was also raised last week and plans were put in place that Hon. Members get their fuel from Petro Trade and Hon. Shamu’s Redan Service Station… – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hakuna fuel uko, macoupons chete!] –
Regarding the COVID-19, the point that you raised that Hon. Members of Parliament should be tested is a valid point. However, I am being informed that everything is in the pipeline and appropriate measures are being taken. Yesterday there was a meeting to look at how we conduct business in Parliament, particularly pertaining to COVID19. I am also informed that most of these measures are being put in place.
So your concerns have been noted Hon. Mliswa and preparations are being made. A number of meetings are being held and also Parliament cannot neglect Hon. Members. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 8 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 9 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON FIRST REPORT OF THE
PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE ON PETITION REGARDING DELAYS IN THE
OPERATIONALISATION OF STATUTORY INSTRUMENT 125 OF
2013 ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. E. NCUBE: Madam Speaker, I move that the motion on the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare on Petition Regarding Delays in the
Operationalisation of Statutory Instrument 125 of 2013 Children’s (NonPublic Service Probation Officers) Regulations which was superseded by the end of the First Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. SHAMU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker, I am a
bit confused. With your guidance, I thought that the Chief Whip said that, ‘All matters are to be stood over until Order of the Day Number 9 is debated’. We are supposed to be debating – why is it being restored? I thought there are Notices of Motions when you call them and whoever wants to restore does that. I am a bit confused – I am totally confused.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa.
What we were doing is to restore the motion on the Order Paper and if some Hon. Members want to debate the motion, then they may do so tomorrow because it will then be on the Order Paper.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 12 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON
THE ANALYSIS OF THE 2017 AUDITOR GENERAL’S REPORT
ON LOCAL AUTHORITIES
HON. RAIDZA: I move the motion standing in my name; that this House adopts the Second Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the analysis of the 2017 Auditor General’s Report on Local Authorities (Chegutu Municipality, Chinhoyi Municipality, Kariba Municipality and Karoi City Council.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Hon. Raidza after having realised he had a wrong document, the motion was stood over.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 23 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 45TH PLENARY
ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN
MAPUTO
HON. KWARAMBA: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House takes note of the Report of the delegation to the 45th
Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held at the
Joaquim Chissano International Conference Centre, Maputo, Mozambique from 15th to 25th July 2019.
HON. NDIWENI: I second.
HON. KWARAMBA: Madam Speaker, let me begin by outlining
that due to other circumstances, this report is coming to the House belatedly, but nevertheless will capture the most important activities that happen in the region. I will thus give the immediate key points to the report.
In accordance with Article 11 (10), of the SADC Parliamentary
Forum which states that, “The Plenary Assembly shall meet for the transaction of business at the Headquarters of the Forum or in a Member State on a rotational basis”, the 45th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was convened in Maputo,
Mozambique from 15 to 25 July 2019 under the theme, “Climate
Change, Mitigation and Adaptation: The Role of Parliaments,
“Towards Implementing the Paris Declaration and the Katowice Roadmap”. Thirteen (13) countries were represented at the Plenary which included: - Angola, Botswana, Democratic Republic of Congo
(DRC), The Kingdom of Eswatini, Malawi, Mozambique, Lesotho,
Namibia, Seychelles, Tanzania, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
The delegation from Zimbabwe, led by Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Mudenda, Speaker of the National Assembly, comprised the following Members and Officers of Parliament: - o Hon. Tambudzani Mohadi, Member of the Standing
Committee on Food, Agriculture, Natural Resources and
Infrastructure; o Hon. Goodlucky Kwaramba, Member of the Standing
Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement
and Youth Development and Chairperson of the
Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus; o Hon. Dexter Nduna, temporarily replacing the late Hon.
Obedingwa Mguni, who was the Member of the Standing Committee on Democratization, Governance and Human
Rights, until a substantive delegate is appointed; o Hon. Anele Ndebele, Member of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment; and, o Hon. Bacillia Majaya, Member of the Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes.
The following attended the Plenary Assembly as support staff: - o Mr. Ndamuka Marimo, Director in the Clerk’s Office; o Mr. Frank Mike Nyamahowa, Director in the Hon. Speaker’s
Office; o Mr. Cleophas Gwakwara, Principal External Relations
Officer and Secretary to the Delegation; o Ms. Martha Mushandinga, Principal Executive Assistant; and o Mr. Clive Zvimekria Mukushwa, Security – Aide to the
Speaker.
OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONY
The Official Opening Ceremony of the 45th Plenary Assembly took place on Sunday 21st July 2019 at Joachim Chissano
International Conference Centre (JCICC).
The Plenary Assembly expressed its profound appreciation to
Hon. Veronica Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo, the Speaker of the National Assembly of Mozambique and the President of the Forum, and the Parliament of Mozambique for graciously hosting the 45th Plenary Assembly Session, having previously hosted the 44th Plenary
Assembly at the same venue in December 2018.
In delivering the keynote address, the guest-of-honour and
President of the host country, His Excellency, President Filipe Jacinto
Nyusi, advocated for the expeditious transformation of the SADC Parliamentary Forum into a SADC Regional Parliament in response to current challenges, including those related to regional integration.
In His Excellency President Nyusi’s view, the SADC Parliament
should not limit its activities to political matters, but also pay attention to economic and social issues, including those related to the Environment. President Nyusi reiterated the need to have a Regional Parliament, just as any other region in Africa.
The Speaker of the National Assembly of Mozambique, Hon. Veronica Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo, welcomed the delegates to the City of Acacia and re-emphasised the need to transform the forum into a Legislative Assembly noting that the issue had been on agenda for a long time. Hon. Dlhovo committed herself to bring the transformation agenda into finality during her presidency.
In a solidarity message delivered by Hon. Chief Fortune Charumbira, Fourth Vice –President of the Pan African Parliament, he reminded the Plenary Assembly of the need to ensure the full participation of African peoples in the development of the continent and ensuring that there is full economic integration on the African continent.
The Hon. PAP Vice -President applauded the Plenary Assembly for choosing a timely topic for deliberation particularly in the aftermath of Cyclone Idai.
SYMPOSIUM – “CLIMATE CHANGE, MITIGATION AND
ADAPTATION: THE ROLE OF PARLIAMENTS, TOWARDS THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PARIS DECLARATION AND THE KATOWICE ROAD MAP".
The Symposium received a brief overview on the impact of climate change in the SADC Region. The region has a population of about 350 million people, with 70% of its population living below the poverty datum line. Again, 70 % of the regional populace rely on natural resources for their livelihood, mainly on agriculture, fisheries and on forestry. The dependence on these natural resources rendered SADC countries susceptible to the impact of climate change and in particular, food insecurity. The Coastal States suffer from floods and the impact of cyclones, while inland States face droughts, and are also impacted upon by cyclones.
The Session was psyched on the need to prepare itself for the emerging challenge of climate migration as people move across borders due to the vagaries of nature.
The Speaker of the National Assembly of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Mudenda made an impassioned plea to his peers for the political will to contrive strategic and concerted mitigatory solutions in order to avert further debilitating climatic environmental consequences.
Hon. Mudenda drew a road map to ensure that National Parliaments approve the Paris Global Climate Change Agreement in view of domesticating it through relevant municipal laws that may need to be crafted and/or reformed. This would require extreme cooperation with the respective SADC Country Executives who must continually craft robust climate change policies as the bedrock of attendant sound climate change laws.
Furthermore, National Parliaments, working with their respective Cabinets, were urged to adopt the Katowice Rule Book as a tool for implementing the Paris Global Climate Change Agreement. This should be done in the context of promoting investment in renewable energy.
National Parliaments, through their relevant Portfolio Committees and in liaison with the appropriate line Ministries that deal with the environment and climate change, must prepare the Biennial Transparency and National Inventory Reports due as from 2024.
SADC PF should encourage its Member Parliaments to ensure that scientifically grounded Departments for Disaster Management are established in their countries as centres of mitigatory climatic change impacts.
Ms. Augusta Maita, Director of the Institute for Disaster Management pledged to avail herself to the region to give expert advice on the need to address the challenges of Climate change from a technical perspective.
RESOLUTIONS ON THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
REPORT
Pursuant to its mandate, the Executive Committee (EXCO) of the SADC Parliamentary Forum (SADC PF) reported for adoption, issues pertaining to the Management of the forum, the transformation process and commended Plenary Assembly for proposing the relevant and timely theme, “Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation: The Role of
Parliaments “Towards Implementing the Paris Declaration and the Katowice Roadmap.” The Plenary Assembly acknowledged that the theme could not have come at a more opportune time, particularly in the aftermath of Cyclone Idai, which left a trail of death and destruction in the region. Cyclone Idai had provided ample evidence of the reality of climate change and the urgent need to come up with concrete strategies to mitigate climate change and build resilience.
On a sad note, Plenary Assembly, observed a minute of silence and paid tribute to the late Hon. Obedingwa Mguni who passed away on Tuesday 17th June 2019. Plenary Assembly remembered him for his effervescence, incisive contributions and dedication to the forum.
Furthermore, the 45th Plenary Assembly observed a minute of silence in honour of the unfortunate victims of Cyclone Idai in Malawi,
Mozambique and Zimbabwe.
Amendments to the Administrative Rules and Regulations of the Forum on Miscellaneous Matters
The Plenary Assembly adopted a resolution to restrict the education allowance payable to staff to one tertiary qualification per child over and above the age limit of 25 years, to prevent situations where the forum funds postgraduate qualifications for employees’
children.
Consideration of the Guidelines to Strengthen the
Accountability and Oversight of the Office of the Secretary-General
The Executive Committee adopted a resolution which will see the implementation of the Guidelines to strengthen the Office of the Secretary-General, including annual assessments by the Executive Committee under the direction of the President of the Forum.
Update on the invitation tendered to the Parliaments of the
Union of Comoros and Madagascar to join the SADC PF
Plenary Assembly adopted a resolution for the Parliament of Seychelles to physically visit the Parliaments of Comoros and Madagascar with a view to persuade them to join the SADC PF since they have not yet responded to the written invitations. The initiative is intended to concretise the Forum’s drive towards full regional integration and co-operation.
Update on Transformation of the Forum into a SADC
Regional Parliament
Plenary Assembly expressed its gratitude to the President of the SADC PF, Hon. Veronica Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo, for taking the initiative to meet the incoming SADC Chairperson, the President of the
United Republic of Tanzania, His Excellency, Dr. John Joseph
Pombe Magufuli to elicit his support on the transformation agenda.
The SADC PF President had also taken the opportunity to address the thorny issue of the autonomy of the SADC Regional Parliament, by assuring His Excellency, President Magufuli that the Regional
Parliament would be guided by the Summit in its mandate and would seek to complement rather than contradict the ideals and aspirations of the Summit.
Hon. Speaker Professor Katjavivi had, in turn, met with the former President of Tanzania and senior statesman, His Excellency, Benjamin Mkapa, on a different mission but took the opportunity to brief H.E. Mkapa, on the transformation agenda. Incidentally, H.E. Mukapa is scheduled to deliver a presentation at the 39th SADC Summit in August during which he promised to voice his support for the transformation agenda. The Plenary Assembly commended the initiative by Hon. Speaker Professor Katjavivi and agreed that the lobbying initiatives towards transformation should not be restricted to Heads of States alone, but should be extended to include opinion leaders and Senior Statesmen in the Region whose voice could be influential in mobilizing support for transformation.
The Plenary Assembly resolved that the stratagem should include, but not be limited to the following: -
The SADC PF President and the lobbying team must urgently meet with the outgoing SADC Chairperson, His Excellency, President Hage Geingob, before the onset of the 39th SADC Summit scheduled for August to elicit a reaffirmation of his support as one of the avowed champions of the transformation agenda and encourage him to mobilize support for transformation among other Heads of State.
The lobbying team must identify and approach other potential champions prior to the 39th SADC Summit to assist in eliciting a concrete decision by the Summit on the transformation agenda, including but not limited to, the Presidents of Angola, Mozambique, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
The SADC PF President must, without delay, appeal to His Excellency President Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, to facilitate for the lobbying team to be allowed to address the Council of Ministers and the SADC Summit on the transformation agenda.
Hon. Speaker Dlhovo and Hon. Speaker Professor Katjavivi should leverage on the impending bilateral visit to Mozambique by His Excellency President Hage Geingob, to jointly brief their Heads of State on the status of the transformation agenda and appeal for their backing in mobilizing support before and during the 39th SADC Summit.
The lobbying team should urgently extend its advocacy efforts to the SADC Secretariat and sensitise them on the transformation agenda in order to dispel any misconceptions and negativity they might have towards transformation.
Hon. Speakers must, without delay, seek the support of their respective Ministers of Foreign Affairs while the Clerks/Secretaries General should engage Secretaries for Foreign Affairs on the transformation drive to garner their support prior to the 39th SADC Council of Ministers Meeting and Summit.
The Forum Secretariat, with the assistance of Clerks/Secretaries General of National Parliaments, must identify and engage a team of lawyers to assist in developing an indicative Protocol for transformation which resonates with the forum’s thrust as a complementary organ to the Summit.
The Forum Secretariat and Clerks/Secretaries General must engage the media in their respective countries to lobby for support for transformation of the forum into a SADC Regional Parliament.
Adoption of the Oath and Affirmation of Adherence for SADC
PF Members of Parliament
The 44th Plenary Assembly adopted an Oath and Affirmation of adherence for SADC PF Members of Parliament, which was commissioned through research by the Secretariat into best practices in other regional and international Parliamentary organisations. It is envisaged that the Oath and Affirmation of Adherence will provide recourse for the forum in the event that Members exhibit conduct that is likely to undermine the integrity of the forum.
Engagement of Consultant to Develop Risk Management
Policy
Pursuant to the recommendations of an Organisational Assessment exercise conducted by KPMG (Zambia), the Plenary Assembly approved the Terms of Reference for the engagement of a Consultant to develop a Risk Management Policy for the forum in line with international best practices.
Update on the Forthcoming SRHR, HIV & AIDS Governance
Project with Sweden
The Plenary Assembly welcomed the impending commencement of the SRHR, HIV and AIDS Governance Project following the signing of the Project Agreement in June 2019. The project will cover all the 14 Member Parliaments and is expected to commence on 1st August 2019. The development of the Institutional Risk Management Policy flagged under the Organizational Assessment exercise is part of the requirements for the commencement of the SRHR, HIV and AIDS Governance
Project.
Improvement of Whistle blowing Policy of the Forum
The Plenary Assembly welcomed the development by the Secretariat of a whistle-blowing policy as part of the recommendations of the Organisational Assessment exercise. The development of a whistle-blowing policy resonates with the forum’s strategic thrust towards enhancing transparency, accountability and upholding the values of honesty and integrity. The Plenary Assembly encouraged the Secretariat to continue exploring ways to improve the complaint system, including introducing a toll-free hotline and suggestion boxes.
TREASURER’S REPORT
The Plenary Assembly noted that Zimbabwe had fully paid its subscriptions up to 2020. This payment has assisted in raising
Zimbabwe’s standing in the regional body since the country is a critical player in most of the initiatives at the Forum.
MOTIONS ADOPTED DURING PLENARY ASSEMBLY
In tandem with its constitutive mandate, as the policy making and deliberative body of SADC PF, the 45th Plenary Assembly discussed and resolved on various issues of regional importance and concern.
Motion for the adoption of the Report of the Regional
Parliamentary Model Laws Oversight Committee
Plenary Assembly adopted the need to prioritise monitoring of the domestication of legal provisions contained in Model Laws developed by the forum, in view of promoting harmonisation of regional legal norms on SRHR, gender equality and democratic elections across the SADC region. This will ensure the SADC citizenry as a whole, benefits from a standardised legal instruments implemented through sovereign parliamentary processes.
In the ensuing debate, the Plenary Assembly stressed the need to strengthen the monitoring exercise by the Committee to ensure that sound, accurate and reliable information is obtained on domestication of model laws. The Plenary Assembly emphasised the need to find a lasting and sustainable solution to the funding of the Election
Observation Missions, given the strategic role that such missions play in advancing democratisation in SADC Member States.
National Parliaments were encouraged to continue marshalling efforts for domestication of all SADC Model Laws, and for Members of Parliament to support gender mainstreaming by advocating for the domestication of the instruments and protocols relating to Gender, and by infusing gender parity on a 50:50 ratio in electoral systems through progressive reforms.
Motion and debate on the Report of the Joint Session of SADC
PF Standing Committees in the SADC Region
The Standing Committees and the RWPC met ahead of the 45th
Plenary Assembly Session to reflectively deliberate on various thematic issues of regional interest and concern. In this regard, Plenary Assembly adopted the following resolutions with regards to the report: -
Status of SADC’s Public Health System, Access to Medicine
and Public Health
There is need to promote access to medicine by harnessing the creation of an alternative pharmaceutical plant in the region post 2033, which will greatly serve the objectives of the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) especially, Goal number 3 which aims at ensuring healthy lives and the promotion of the well-being of the people in the region. The SADC Region needs to create an enabling environment that will nurture research into the production capacity of the local and regional pharmaceutical industry in terms of generic essential medicines. Africa needs a regional centre of excellence that will promote, monitor and guide the production of diverse medicines and this should be supported by national and regional alignment of trade policies. A database and a databank of traditional medicines should be established and this should be complemented by a purposeful trade in pharmaceuticals within
SADC.
Digital Economy
On the digital economy, the Plenary Assembly noted the need to: -
Ensure that people in the region have access to internet and the digital economy, including those in the hinterland;
- Take measures that mitigate the high cost of internet to ensure that ordinary people realise the full benefits of the digital economy through affordable access to communication systems;
- Cyber security should play a role in the management and governance of the digital age.
- The Fourth (4th) industrial revolution has given rise to a number of services such as cloud, machine learning, drones, block chain and others. These provide enormous potential for legislators and policy makers to exploit the networks of the digital economy for the benefit of the public sector and their constituencies;
- It was noted that the on-going Huawei trade conflict between the United States of America and China is a potential disservice as it can reduce accessibility to cell phones and the internet and generally the participation in the digital economy;
- At a policy level, the digital economy may be advanced through the adoption of a regional technical roadmap, regional model law and the post adoption popularization and implementation;
- Laws against cyber-crime appear rather rushed and more driven by political motive than the need to regulate the sector and protect the various internet users. The region should play a facilitatory role with regards to the use of the internet; and
- There is need for a robust regional data protection framework to allow the movement of data across countries without exposing the identity and security of the users.
Motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development
The Plenary Assembly resolved as follows: -
Parliaments should consider recruiting and placing Youth intern/volunteers at each National Parliament, to provide on-the-job training and workplace exposure to youth at national level, while sustaining initiatives and projects of SADC-PF YDP.
SADC PF and Parliaments to develop a sustainability strategy to cater for youth development initiatives across all development programmes; and
Parliaments must consider secondment of Youth Officers to support implementation activities beyond the contract of the current secondment by Parliament of Namibia.
Motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the
Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human
Rights
Plenary Assembly resolved as follows: -
The Secretariat should write to all National Parliaments communicating the reputational risk that SADC PF was facing from not participating in Election Missions and therefore, appeal to the Speakers to give the matter favourable consideration.
The Secretariat to facilitate for the Committee, through the Chairperson, to engage the Executive Committee and Speakers to brief them on the matter with a view to finding a collective solution that should see SADC PF deploying Election Observation Missions to the remaining four countries holding elections in 2019, namely Botswana (October), Mozambique (15th October), Namibia (27th November) and Mauritius (December).
There was need to ensure that Plenary Assembly decisions are implemented, including those on the deployment of Parliamentarians to observe elections in Member States, as failure to implement Plenary resolutions could undermine the credibility of SADC PF in the eyes of stakeholders. Parliament of Zimbabwe should maintain its presence for activities such as the Plenary Assembly where robust regional issues are debated.
National Parliaments should be encouraged to prioritise SADC PF activities in the allocation of financial resources to the regional body as compared to International Parliamentary bodies.
The Committee, through the Chairperson, will table a draft resolution to the 46th Plenary Assembly proposing the way forward on the funding of SADC PF election observation missions, taking into consideration consultations with the Executive Committee and Speakers of National Parliaments.
Adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes
Plenary Assembly resolved that:
The Secretariat continues to work with Sweden to finalise Phase 2 of the SRHR, HIV and AIDS Governance Project which will be implemented in 14 countries of the SADC region. The forum reaffirmed its commitment to prioritise Sexual and Reproductive Health (SRH) as part of its human and social development priorities, especially given the known linkages between SRH and the transmission of HIV which still notoriously influences the SADC region;
Furthermore, National Parliaments must continue to work together to share experiences and cross-learn on Sexual Reproductive and Human and Development issues under the auspices of the forum, and additionally continue holding governments to account on their SRH commitments.
Motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the
Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and
Infrastructure (TIFI)
The Plenary Assembly acknowledged the devastating effects of
Illicit Financial Flows (IFFs) and Sovereign Debt on the development of Southern Africa and Africa and stressed the need to address these challenges head on.
SADC countries were encouraged to urgently address the debt crisis which is re-emerging in the region. Whilst those facing debt distress should devise strategies to address this undesirable state, the rest of the region should not be complacent. Sovereign Debt is inadvertently resulting in countries mortgaging the future generations.
The complex issues of Sovereign Debt required all the different stakeholders to work together. Parliament, civil society and the media are important players and should join forces in addressing IFFs and
Sovereign Debt.
Motion and Debate for the Adoption of the Report of the
Regional Women’s Parliamentary Caucus
The Plenary Assembly resolved as follows: -
SADC Member States must domesticate global, regional and subregional instruments that seek to strengthen the rights of women and girls. SADC-PF should support efforts that seek to promote gender mainstreaming and gender responsive budgeting across the SADC-PF region. The RWPC should continue to coordinate with stakeholders, especially Civil Society Organisations to develop a robust multistakeholder partnership framework that can act holistically to promote gender equality, SRH and women empowerment. SADC-PF should support RWPC efforts that seek to promote 50 percent gender parity in political governance. The RWPC, with the coordination of the Secretariat, should continue to liaise with all institutional organs of the forum and address cross-cutting issues relating to women which transcends different thematic areas. SADC-PF should strengthen efforts and initiatives that seek to work with men as development partners, e.g. the HeforShe campaign.
Motion and Debate for the Adoption of the Report of the Food,
Agriculture Committee (FANR)
Plenary Assembly noted the devastation on the 14th and 15th of March 2019 caused by Cyclone Idai as it made a landfall near Beira city, and in parts of Eastern Zimbabwe and Malawi which led to catastrophic destruction of infrastructure, property and livelihoods. Usually, cyclones form in the Central Indian Ocean – giving sufficient time for affected countries to prepare to reduce a disaster. On the contrary, Idai started off deceptively weak and then grew incrementally to strike a big blow on the three affected countries.
Climate change should be linked to issues of poverty, equity, justice, politics and economics. Both politicians and the ordinary people should come up with mitigatory strategies and building resilience.
Environmental pollution as a result of waste mismanagement including chemicals should be discouraged. Pollution waste unfortunately ends up in drainage systems and results in blockages and contamination of water and the environment. Parliaments should enact legislation that imposes deterrent sentences on such would-be polluters.
Climate change, as observed from changed rainfall patterns and other environmental phenomenon, is a reality and not mere theory. It is therefore important to give priority to crops like cassava and sorghum which are drought resistant and can survive short and erratic rainfall patterns.
There is a need to resuscitate and appreciate indigenous knowledge systems about the environment and the weather in particular, as coastal communities used to anticipate cyclones and other climatic conditions and put the necessary precautions in place.
Cyclones are an environmental phenomenon and a reality of climate change and have both negative and positive consequences. Human beings therefore, have no choice but to embrace the reality of climate change and in particular, the phenomenon of cyclones and put in place the necessary mitigatory measures to build resilience.
Regional and national disaster management and coordination through the strengthening of early warning systems and pooling of resources is the best way to deal with the effects of climate change.
SADC governments must, as a matter of priority, individually and collectively provide funding for disaster management initiatives. SADC Parliaments should exercise oversight over these initiatives and assess their disaster preparedness.
DEBATES ON MOTIONS BY MEMBER PARLIAMENTS
Motion on Beneficiation of the Extractive Sector in the SADC region
Plenary Assembly noted that the African continent is endowed with mineral resources which are capable of fully sustaining the livelihoods of its citizenry.
The meeting recalled that the colonial contact of Africa with the
West was based on and triggered by the mineral wealth of Africa.
Plenary Assembly urged Member States to prioritise beneficiation and value addition to the region's mineral resources in order to ensure maximisation of their value, thereby enhancing governments capacity to mobilise revenue for delivery of public services.
Motion on the Promotion of Renewable Energy in the SADC
region
Plenary Assembly resolved to: -
Urge SADC governments to urgently diversify from the conventional sources of energy to the more abundant renewable and other non-conventional sources such as solar, wind, gas and minihydros;
Implore SADC to prioritise the development of a regional mechanism to invest in the development of Inga Dam Phase Two which has the potential to make the region and Africa as a whole energy selfsufficient;
Encourage SADC countries to invest in power plants such as the
Kafue Gorge Hydropower Station in Zambia, the proposed Batoka Gorge Hydroelectric Power Station which is a 1,600 megawatts hydroelectric power station planned to be on the Zambezi River across the border between Zambia and Zimbabwe. This initiative among others will enhance the capacity of Member States to export and import electricity from each other.
Recommend increased and innovative investment in the region’s energy infrastructure as most of the power plants were commissioned in the 1960s and 1970s and with no significant investment made in recent years, by creating an enabling environment for international investment and public-private partnerships.
Suggest the application of the principles of cost reflective electricity tariffs concurrent with pro-poor measures to ensure sustainability of the sector and access by the poor.
Urged national governments to provide targeted funding for rural and peri-urban electrification initiatives in order to ensure access to electricity by the majority in the hinterland; and,
Encouraged SADC Member Parliaments, in particular the Parliamentary Committees on Energy, to ensure effective oversight on the energy sector, the engagement of all role players and the strategic utilisation of legislative and budgetary measures to advance the sector, in particular the renewable energy.
Motion on the Need for a Lasting Solution Regarding Funding for SADC PF election Observation Missions
Plenary Assembly urged the Executive Committee to engage Speakers of Member Parliaments and the Chairperson of the
Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights Standing Committee with a view to finding a collective and lasting solution that should see SADC PF deploying Election Observation Missions to the remaining four countries holding elections in 2019, namely Botswana (October),
Mozambique (15th October), Namibia (27th November) and Mauritius (December), (This resolution is read with the Resolutions under Item
9.0).
Motion on the Negative Effects of Plastic on the Environment
Plenary Assembly endorsed the international campaign
"PRODUCE, USE AND RE-USE" as opposed to "PRODUCE, USE
AND DISPOSE" and urged all stakeholders nationally and regionally, including industry and business to embrace this approach. The meeting prompted national governments and other stakeholders to initiate and sustain national and community campaigns to raise awareness about the devastating effects of plastic on the environment and to create incentives which will promote positive action in this regard.
Member Parliaments and their Executive arms were encouraged to urgently take legislative measures to regulate and eliminate plastic usage in order to protect the environment and to ensure effective implementation of such legislation and monitoring of the same.
Member States were encouraged to fully support SADC’s environmental management and sustainable development objectives through the promotion of pollution control, waste management and environmental education.
Hon. Members, I will move to therecommendations.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Recommendation | Action | Timeline | |
17.1 | Transformation of SADC PF into a Regional Parliament. | -The Hon. Speaker to lead the local mobilisation of support for the transformation agenda.
-Lobbying process with the Executive to continue formally and informally.
|
October 2019
|
17.2 | Resolution on the Paris Global
Climate Change Agreement and Katowice Roadmap with a in view to domesticate and make follow-up action through relevant municipal laws |
-Line Ministry to meet with
Portfolio Committee on Lands, Agriculture, Climate and Water and Rural Resettlement to report on preparations of the Biennial Transparency and National Inventory Reports due as from 2024. - Parliament of Zimbabwe to play its oversight role by ensuring that |
October 2019 |
the Civil Protection Unit of Zimbabwe is scientifically
grounded for Disaster Management |
|||
17.3 | Harnessing the full benefits of the digital economy and mitigating the harmful effects of Cyber -crime | -The Committee to include in its
Work Plan the role of the Fourth (4th) industrial revolution and its attendant benefits. The Ministry of Science and Technology to unpack the related benefits such as cloud computing, machine learning, drones, block chain and others. -The Committee on ICT, Postal and Courier Services to conduct oversight on progress in the establishment of internet services in rural areas |
October 2019
January 2020
|
17.4 | Parliament to domesticate global, regional and subregional instruments that seek to strengthen the rights of women and girls.
The institution to strengthen synergies with men in mainstreaming gender issues.
|
-The ZWPC to strengthen efforts and initiatives that seek to work with men as partners on issues related to gender, e.g. the HeforShe campaign.
|
October 2019 |
17.5 | Portfolio Committees to take active interest in Climate Change issues as they relate to poverty, equity, justice, humanitarian, politics and economics. | -Liaison with the Ministry of
Energy and Power Development for the development of clean methods of energy production.
|
October 2019 |
17.6 | Beneficiation of the extractive sector
|
-The Mines and Mining
Development Ministry to be engaged to prioritise beneficiation and value addition to the country’s mineral resources including lithium, chrome ore, gold in order to ensure maximisation of their value thereby enhancing Government’s ‘capacity to mobilise revenue for delivery of public |
October 2019 |
services. | |||
17.7 | Ban on the use of plastic in the country | -Parliament of Zimbabwe, through the Portfolio Committee on Environment, to urgently undertake legislative measures to regulate and eliminate plastic usage in order to protect the environment and to ensure effective implementation of such legislation and monitoring of the same.
|
October 2019 |
17.8 | Enhancement of Election Observation Missions | -Plenary Assembly urged the
Executive Committee to engage Speakers of Member Parliaments and the Chairperson of the Democratisation Governance and Human Rights Standing Committee with a view to finding a collective and lasting solution that should see SADC PF deploying Election Observation Missions to the remaining four countries holding elections in 2019, namely Botswana (October), Mozambique (15th October), Namibia (27th November) and Mauritius (December) |
Ongoing |
17.9 | Harnessing the importance of
Indigenous Medicinal Knowledge Systems |
-Promotion, monitoring and guidance on the production of diverse medicines which should be supported by national and regional alignment of trade policies. The oversight role to be championed by the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Welfare. | September
2019 |
CONCLUSION
The Plenary Assembly appreciated the excellent hosting arrangements made by the National Assembly of Mozambique noting that the country hosted the 44th Plenary Assembly and is still recovering from the effects of Cyclone Idai and Cyclone Kenneth. Parliament of
Zimbabwe stands to benefit by adopting resolutions of the 45th Plenary Assembly as they summarise the collective concerns of citizens in the region.
The delegation led by Hon. Speaker Advocate Jacob Francis.
Mudenda must be commended for raising the country’s flag high by participating actively and making incisive contributions during deliberations on reports and motions before the Plenary Assembly. The
President of the SADC PF, Hon. Speaker Dlhovo and the SADC PF Secretariat, through the Secretary General Ms Boemo Sekgoma, acknowledged the high standard of debate set by the Zimbabwean delegates which fostered lively interface and positive interaction during the Plenary Assembly. I thank you.
HON. NDIWENI: I stand to second the motion by Hon.
Kwaramba on the 45th Plenary Session of the SADC PF. Mr. Speaker Sir, the theme of the Plenary Session at that time was very accurate, considering it was soon after the region was struck by the unfortunate natural disaster which was in the form of Cyclone Idai. Mr. Speaker Sir, global warming is real and it is prudent for the region to make a collective effort in tackling global warming which then leads to climate change. In our region Mr. Speaker Sir, and Zimbabwe in particular, we have had years of countless droughts. Our neighbours have had floods and Zimbabwe has had flash floods, not mentioning the catastrophic Cyclone Idai. If we throw our minds back, we also had Cyclone Eline. This was mainly due to climate change and global warming.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is prudent that SADC looks at climate change and take measures that have to alleviate climate change. How can SADC look at such a phenomenon Mr. Speaker Sir. The collective efforts that we should see SADC adopting would be maybe looking at fuel. If we look at fuel, blending of fuel should be uniform in all the countries but you find different countries in SADC are approaching the blending of fuel differently because the emission from fuel affects our climate, albeit in a small manner. If we have a uniform approach to fuel blending, that could have an effect of controlling climate change in our region.
If you look at our region again on energy generation, some countries are going away and moving towards clean energy Mr. Speaker Sir, but others are still sticking to thermal energy production which we should actually move away from. Because of the different positions in which our countries find ourselves in, you find countries like Zimbabwe and South Africa are still depending on thermal energy but there is need for a collective approach on energy generation so that all the countries in the SADC region move towards generation of clean energy.
If we also look at production of products such as asbestos, you are aware Mr. Speaker Sir that Zimbabwe was one of the producers of asbestos which unfortunately according to climate change activities, is very bad for health. You realise that some countries in the SADC region are still producing asbestos. Some are trying to move away but then you find that at times even if a particular country is trying to move away from asbestos production, it supports your economy so much that you find that it is difficult for the country to move away from asbestos production when you are relying on it towards revival of the economy of your country.
Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir, there is need like alluded to initially that the countries in the SADC PF move towards clean energy. Let us look at solar and hydro, hydro is cleaner than coal energy. Other countries are even looking at nuclear energy. South Africa is one of the countries in our SADC region that is moving towards nuclear energy. Mr. Speaker Sir, all along our region used to talk of global warming, it was like something that was farfetched. We never imagined ourselves having to be affected by climate change and global warming but now coming closer home with all these calamities that have befallen our region in the past and recently there is need then that the Southern African community realises that the movement towards clean energy is now rather than tomorrow, I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I just want to add my voice to the report tabled by Hon. Kwaramba and seconded by Hon. Ndiweni. There are just a few issues that I just want to touch on. The first one is the tail end of his debate, the climate. How do I want to debate on that? I make a clarion call that there is capacitation of the Civil Protection Unit or the Disaster Management Committee so that in the event of such an occurrence, we do not have a recurrence of a lot of lives that get lost.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as a nation, we lost more than 354 people in Chimanimani, we also had more than 100 000 houses destroyed, we have more than 350 people who went missing. We also have about 1600 people that are said to be internally displaced because of the magnitude and stature of the disaster caused by Cyclone Idai. To capacitate our Civil Protection Unit and our Disaster Management Committees, it is my view that we need to utilise what we have in order to get what we want. What do we have? We are endowed with ubiquitous amounts of mineral wealth, it is my thinking Mr. Speaker Sir, that at least 5% of the deliveries to Fidelity be accounted for and be given to capacitate the Civil Protection Unit so that we do not have a reoccurrence of such magnitude.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I say this because I come in from a place called
Chegutu West Constituency where when disaster did strike, the cholera epidemic, we lost more than 400 lives. So this to us as Chegutu West is another recurrence of such a disaster. Mr. Speaker Sir, this is the first issue.
The second issue that I want to touch on that was raised in the
SADC PF was that of marginalisation of the albino population. Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of disability does not mean inability. The people that are different in pigmentation in terms of lack of it who are called albinos are people just like us. They are said to be mutilated, murdered for ritual purposes in countries such as Malawi. We had Lesotho, the Kingdom of Eswathini, they actually repudiated and disagreed with the notion that they were also involved in albino population marginalisation, mutilation and murdering for ritual purposes.
Be that as it may, it becomes very clear that the SADC countries that were there were speaking with one voice against the murder of the albino population to an extent that the Zimbabwean delegation actually said there were efforts that were being made in Zimbabwe to support the albino population in terms of getting creams. They are prone to the effect of climate change and the global warming phenomenon as it relates to when their skin is exposed. So the creams that they use are quite expensive. There is an Albino Association here in Zimbabwe that is actually grappled with trying to alleviate the plight of the albino population Mr. Speaker Sir. I went to depth trying to look at the verses of the Bible as to how another human being can antagonize another human being to the extent of mutilating them for ritual purposes. I went to depth and called on all the verses and showed all the participants there that these were people just like everybody else and that inability did not reside in disability. If at all these people that we call albinos and the other marginalised, they are differently abled but we are all people together.
The third issue and the last one Mr. Speaker Sir, is the issue of the coordination, cooperation and networking that we saw immediately after the March 2019 Cyclone Idai. We saw the military from South Africa come and get embedded with the infrastructure developers in Zimbabwe in Chimanimani. My point exactly is: this is when we see that the soldiers - and military are as endowed with technical aptitude and ability in the same manner like the civilian population.
I take this opportunity as I did in Mozambique to applaud the coordination and cooperation that exists between the military entities in the SADC region. We saw the South Africans coming into Zimbabwe not with guns but with roses and my thinking also that they came in and got embedded with their counterparts in Zimbabwe. They can still compete at the same level with the other civil engineers and infrastructure developers. I again make a clarion call that in all tender processes, let us not marginalize the military in that they have shown and proven their prowess, that they can do it in the face of challenges such as the global pandemic or the global Cyclone Idai or the SADC Cyclone Idai which by the way, affected more than a million people in Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker Sir as I conclude, I also call upon the SADC region and the continent as a whole to desist and move away from fossil fuels and go towards alternative sources of energy in order that we alleviate the plight of the suffering masses caused by global warming that is caused by some of these archaic, moribund and rudimental fuels that we are currently utilizing. The biggest transgressors of the climate change are the industrialized nations Mr. Speaker Sir, and who are those? These are the Americans, all other developed nations and we the developing nations bear the brunt.
I call upon them Mr. Speaker Sir, to give more towards climate change. This is the time that we should be coming together as a global community rather than segregating each other. Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this report.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir for
affording me this opportunity to express my perceptions and ventilate on this very important topical issue on climate change.
Climate change is real and climate change is now a disaster. I must say that Africa’s contribution to the destruction of the ozone layer is just 2%, whilst 98% is as a result of the role that is played by the industrialized world. The developed world are countries in North America, Europe, China and so forth. So, what are we doing as a continent because Africa is the most vulnerable continent to the effects of climate change? Climate change manifests itself in various ways – in the form of floods and persistent droughts.
In Zimbabwe, for instance, we now have two years in a row where we have experienced a lot of food shortages as a result of climate change due to these persistent droughts. It is also important to know that
Cyclone Idai is a case in point where thousands of people perished in
Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Malawi. So, I would recommend to this august House that it is important and prudent to ensure that we have to do something to curb the effects of climate change.
One of the recommendations that we need to adopt is the teaching of climate change in our schools. The curriculum needs to be fine-tuned so that students appreciate the importance of climate change from ECDA through to university level. It is also important to ensure that even this august House needs to deal with the effects of climate change. How do we do it? We need to craft policies and legislate measures that will reduce the effects of climate change. People or companies that would emit gases into the ozone layer willy nilly - there should be penalties to ensure that is reduced.
Otherwise, I would like to thank you Hon. Speaker for this opportunity. I thank you.
*HON. SHAMU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for affording me
the opportunity to contribute to this debate on the report that was tabled by Hon. Kwaramba and seconded by Hon. Ndiweni.
The presentation made by Hon. Kwaramba underscores the importance of issues discussed. The delegation came back with resolutions that deserve our serious attention. I would also want to pay tribute to the leadership of Hon. Adv. Mudenda, the Speaker of Parliament who led the delegation that went to Maputo, Mozambique to attend the meeting that was held at the Joachim Chissano International Conference Center. Hon. Speaker, the venue of the meeting is Joachim Chissano International Conference Center.
I want us to reflect on the reason why it was named the Joachim Chissano International Conference Center. SADC has a revolutionary history. We need to know where we are right now and where we intend to go. Joachim Chissano a FRELIMO leader who fought in the struggle to liberate Mozambique and also assisted Zimbabwe to attain its
Independence. Therefore SADC is guided by the founding principles of
Pan Africanism. Mr. Chissano was the first leader to …in Maputo as eventually Mr. Machel took over.
The second point Mr. Speaker Sir, I totally agree with Hon. Ndiweni that climate change is a reality. Rainfall patterns are changing and seasons are no longer following traditional patterns. Looking at climate change, the environment and variation in season, we need to prepare accordingly so that we have food security in the country. This was a serious issue which was discussed in Mozambique. This means that for us to have food security, for us to store grains and enough food to cater for our needs as a nation, it is necessary to increase agricultural products. We need to appreciate environmental and climate change issues. Let us hold on to the principle of being our own liberators. We are a principled people who set ourselves free from imperialism. Let us do the same with poverty. We can do that if we learn from the deliberations presented by Hon. Kwaramba from their Mozambique meeting. Maximum use of our land will set us free from poverty, hunger and deprivation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we were told that we need to prepare ourselves so that we overcome natural disasters like Cyclone Idai which happened in Chimanimani. I would like to also propose that we start with the home made disasters of veld fires which are destroying our forests. Some of our people behave as if they are possessed. Veld fires destroy forests because of people who will be hunting rats. Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Kwaramba emphasised that issues raised by SADC should cascade to different countries within the SADC grouping. We have the challenge of gold panners who destroy the environment. Deep gullies are foung in river beds so much that should there be floods, bodies of people swept by the water will never be retrieved. Artisanal miners need to look after the environment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, health issues that were raised in Hon.
Kwaramba’s presentation seemed to prepare is for the COVID-19. This meeting which was held in July last in the Joaquim Chissano
International Conference Centre was looking at posterity. We must plan for the future today.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Speaker Hon. Adv. Mudenda went to Qatar and you were part of that delegation. You came and gave feedback to the House recommending possible business ventures. Hon. Kwaramba’s presentation reminded me of that. I noted that SADC is saying that we need to have a SADC pharmaceutical factory which will manufacture madecine for our region.
Zimbabwe is centrally located looking at the distances between the different continents like America, Asia and other continents. Zimbabwe can operate 24 hours servicing these countries. We can target different countries the world-over. Adv. Mudenda and his delegation have done it again. Zimbabwe should be the pharmaceutical hurb for the SADC region. We have all the human resources; the sun, water and leadership.
That is why we say ‘Zimbabwe is open for business’. I believe that this presentation should be taken seriously so that we respond accordingly.
Lastly Mr. Speaker Sir, a point was raised. The point that with technological advancement through the season or what we are going through right now, we were told that we need to be very innovative, particularly looking at cyber issues. The report which was presented by
Hon. Kwaramba should be translated into Shona and Ndebele instead of just being presented in English. It should also be translated into Venda, Kalanga and other official languages. We need to read the report and contextualise it. Issues raised and recommendations made shape our future. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you Hon. Kwaramba for the
report.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MAKONYA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd June, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the House reverts to Order
Number 10.
HON. K. PARADZA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON AMENDMENT OF
SECTION 129 (I) (K) OF THE CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE ON
THE ORDER PAPER
HON. T. MLISWA: I move the motion standing in my name; that the motion on the request to urgently amend Section 129 (1) (k) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe which was superseded by the end of the First Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order Number 73.
HON. MUNETSI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the House reverts to Order of the Day, Number 12.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON
THE ANALYSIS OF THE 2017 AUDITOR GENERAL’S REPORT
ON LOCAL AUTHORITIES
HON. RAIDZA: I rise to present the Second Report of the Public
Accounts Committee on the analysis of the 2017 Auditor General’s
Report on Local Authorities focusing on Kariba Municipality, Karoi City Council, Chegutu Municipality and Chinhoyi Municipality.
1.0. INTRODUCTION
1.1. Pursuant to Parliament’s role provided for in section 119 of the Constitution, the Public Accounts Committee performs its functions to ensure that provisions of the Constitution are “upheld and that the State and all institutions and agencies of government at every level act constitutionally and in the national interest.”
1.2. In ensuring that section 119 of the Constitution is upheld, the Committee also draws its mandate from section 299 of the Constitution which compels Parliament to “monitor and oversee expenditure by the State and all Commissions and institutions and agencies of Government at every level, including statutory bodies, government controlled entities, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities.”
1.3. In a number of countries including Zimbabwe, local authorities have recently been incorporated into the category of entities whose accounts are now subjected to audit by the Auditor General. As such, the Public Accounts Committee has a duty to analyse the Auditor
General’s Report on local authorities in line with Standing Order No. 16 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly which reads: “There must be a Committee on Public Accounts, for the examination of the sums granted by Parliament to meet the public expenditure and of such other accounts laid before
Parliament as the committee may think fit.”
2.0. SIGNIFICANCE OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES
2.1. Local authorities comprise of urban authorities and rural authorities established in terms of sections 274 and 275 of the
Constitution respectively. The authorities are established to represent
and manage the affairs of people in urban and rural areas throughout Zimbabwe. In doing so, council officials collect money from residents and receive grants from central government in order to implement developmental programmes in areas of their jurisdictions. These programmes are mainly in the form of service delivery which includes provision of water and sanitation, refuse collection, provision of residential stands or houses and provision of health services among others.
3.0. METHODOLOGY
3.1. The Committee conducted an analysis of the Auditor’s Report for Local Authorities for the Year Ended December 31st 2017 focussing on the issues raised and recommendations made by the Auditor General.
The Auditor General, according to Section 309 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and Section 6 (1) of the Audit Office Act, is mandated to audit the accounts of any public entity, or designated corporate body and to carry out examinations into the economy, efficiency and effectiveness with which any Ministry, public entity, local authority, designated corporate body, statutory fund or other body has used public resources in discharging its functions.
3.2. In the 2017 Auditor General’s Report, the Auditor General noted that some progress had been made by local authorities to bring their audit accounts up to date as this had been a challenge in previous years. Without financial accounts, it becomes virtually impossible to scrutinise the financial transactions of a local authority or any entity. The absence of financial records renders the local authority unaccountable to its residents and deprives the local authority of vital information useful in decision making.
3.3. Due to time and financial resources limitations, a few local authorities were invited for oral evidence and these were Kariba
Municipality on 17 November 2018 in Kariba, Kadoma City Council on
15 February 2019, Chegutu Municipality on 16 February 2019 and Chinhoyi Municipality on 17 February 2019 in Kadoma. The choice of local authorities invited for oral evidence was determined by the
Committee’s priority list based on those local authorities with serious issues that needed attention. Others were invited owing to their proximity to the location the Committee was conducting its business, during two of its capacity building workshops.
3.4. During the oral evidence sessions, the Committee sought to establish the extent to which these local authorities had addressed audit queries by implementing recommendations made by the Auditor General, some of which management would have undertaken to implement as reflected in their management responses to the Auditor General.
4.0 COMMITTEE’S FINDINGS
An analysis of the issues raised by the Auditor General and the observations by the Committee during interaction with officials from the local authorities revealed a general trend and similarities from one authority to the other. The issues are outlined in this part of the report and below each finding are Committee’s recommendations:
4.1 Failure to Prepare and Submit financial statements for audit
4.1.1 Despite the observation made by the Auditor General that there had been progress made by local authorities to bring their audit accounts up to date, the statistics provided were not pleasing. The number of local authorities that were still outstanding in the submission of financial statements for audit at the time of the Auditor General’s tabling the 2017 Report on 30 June 2018 for the years ended 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 were 2, 8, 22 and 63, respectively.
4.1.2 Out of the four local authorities whose accounts were analysed by the Committee, only Kariba Municipality was up to date with regards to preparation and submission of financial statements for audit. Kadoma City Council had a backlog from 2015, Chinhoyi Municipality from 2016 and Chegutu Municipality from 2014.
4.1.3 Officials from Kadoma City Council attributed the failure to prepare accounts to inadequate staff. They argued that the introduction of RTGS and Ecocash transactions resulted in an increased workload in comparison to the lean staff in the Finance Department. To address the challenge, the Committee was informed that the City Council employed contract workers and adopted a computerised programme for producing financial accounts.
4.1.4 The Committee was informed that Chinhoyi Municipality experienced a human resources gap in the Finance Department. The municipality officials submitted that in 2012, the Finance Director an economist by qualification hired by the Executive Mayor failed to produce the financial statements. The Committee was informed that after his departure, an auditor was engaged and he too failed to produce statements before he parted ways with the municipality. The then deputy finance director took over and worked on the accounts. The local authority’s officials indicated that they had since addressed human resources gap by engaging graduate trainees.
4.1.5 Chegutu Municipality officials submitted that they were aware of their obligation to submit accounts within a specified period. They also submitted that during the 2013 to 2014 period, the then Finance Director misappropriated funds and was dismissed. They reported that the new Finance Director prepared accounts for 2014 and 2015 with those for 2016 having been completed and the management letter was being finalised. The Committee was advised that accounts for
2017 were being finalised and the roadmap was that by June 2019 Council would be up to date.
4.2 Committee’s Observation
4.2.1 The Committee noted that the way in which municipalities were being run were not in line with sound public finance management requirements and in contravention of the Constitution, the Audit Office Act and the Public Finance Management Act. The Committee wonders whether funds to be allocated to lower tiers through devolution would not be a case of throwing money down the drain. It is unacceptable to the Committee for any local authority to operate with a backlog in the preparation of its financial statements.
4.3 Recommendations
- All local authorities with a backlog should clear their backlogs by 31 July, 2020.
- The Auditor General’s Office should help local authorities to get assistance from qualified staff to ensure that they are up to date with preparation of financial the statements.
5.0 Outdated Valuation Rolls
5.1. The Auditor General observed during the time of the audit that a number of local authorities were operating with outdated valuation rolls. These valuation rolls are important in as far as they assist local authorities to charge residents appropriate rates that are compatible with the current economic status. In her report, the Auditor General observed that Kadoma City Council and Karoi Town Council had valuation rolls last updated in 2003 and 2001 respectively.
5.1.1 Officials from Kadoma City Council informed the Committee that they did not have an updated valuation roll despite giving the Auditor General an undertaking that they would update it by November 2016. Officials submitted to the Committee that an attempt to update it had revealed some omissions upon testing. The Committee was informed that most of the work had been done and was being verified.
Officials advised the Committee that council’s deadline for readvertising was end of July 2019.
5.1.2 Kariba Municipality officials had updated the valuation roll, which was dated 1 January 2017 although the municipality had not yet started implementing it. They stated that some modalities required the municipality to engage stakeholders. The officials argued that consultations were important since its implementation would result in an increase in rates.
5.1.3 Chinhoyi officials had an updated valuation roll which had been updated in 2016. The effective date for the new valuation roll was January 2017. Officials acknowledged that council had lost potential revenue as it had used estimates until the new valuation roll was put in place.
5.2 Committee’s Observation
5.2.1 The Committee noted that the local authorities that had outdated valuation rolls may be undercharging and losing potential revenue due to the use of these outdated valuation rolls.
5.3 Recommendations
1. All local authorities should have updated valuation rolls by
31 July 2020 in line with sections 247 and 248 of the Urban Councils Act.
- The Ministry of Local Government Public Works and National Housing, in approving budgets, should insist that all local authorities have updated valuation rolls.
6.0 Non Remittance of Statutory Deductions
6.1 The Auditor General in her report, highlighted that remittance of statutory and other obligations had continued to be an issue over the years. These remittances included deductions by local authorities for employees’ contributions to the National Social Security Authority, Pay As You Earn, Value Added Tax, Medical Aid and Pension Funds. Notable cases were Chitungwiza Municipality which had a total of $19 475 623, Marondera Municipality $9 771 162, Kariba Municipality $4 883 290, Kadoma City Council $4 640 171 and Karoi
Town Council $1 508 922.
6.1.1 Kadoma City Council officials admitted to the Committee that most of its pensioners were not accessing their pay-outs in time because council was failing to remit deductions. Officials presented before the Committee that the local authority was unable to pay its
17.3% contribution and that the percentage was an issue of contention.
To try and assist pensioners, officials engaged the Local Authorities Pension Fund to pay a lump sum of the pension when it falls due to a worker and council would meet the monthly payments. The Committee was advised that total outstanding statutory obligations was reduced to about $3 million and council appealed for a reversal of penalties imposed on Pay As You Earn.
6.1.2 Kariba Municipality officials informed the Committee that the municipality made arrangements with the Local Authorities Pension Fund to remit $500 on a daily basis. The Committee was also informed that the municipality also agreed with ZIMRA on a $ 300 and $ 1 700 daily payments for VAT and PAYE respectively. Officials indicated that these payments would amount to monthly payment requirements. What would remain outstanding for the municipality were arrears for the previous years. It was submitted that the municipality entered into arrangements with ZIMDEF and NSSA and that payments to the latter were up to date. The officials gave global figures of the amount the municipality was owed as $13 million and the amount the municipality owed creditors at $12 million.
6.1.3 Chinhoyi Municipality officials submitted to the Committee that the local authority made payment plans with the Zimbabwe
Revenue Authority, Old Mutual, Local Authorities Pension Fund and the National Social Security Authority. The Committee was advised that the municipality was up to date with the agreed plans.
6.2 Committee’s Observation
6.2.1 The Committee noted that most of the local authorities are lagging behind in terms of forwarding remittances for statutory deductions.
6.3 Recommendation
Local authorities lagging behind in terms of remittances should be up to date with such remittances by 31 July 2020.
7.0 Missing Expenditure Vouchers
7.1 At the time of the audit, a number of local authorities had not presented supporting documents such as quotations, receipts and invoices on expenditures incurred. This poses a risk in that some expenditure may not be a proper charge on the Council and fraud may go undetected.
7.1.1 For Kadoma City Council, the total value of expenditure that did have supporting value was $ 32 033. The breakdown of this total had amounts of $ 4 407 and $ 5 000 reflected twice for the same description of goods, chemicals and medicines. In the absence of supporting documents, a real possibility exists that the same goods could have been paid for twice.
7.1.2 Council officials submitted that voucher No. 56 related to payments to a company called A I Davis. It was further submitted that the voucher was collected after payment and the voucher had been misplaced at the time of the audit. City Council officials informed the Committee that supporting documents for amounts of $5 000 for chemicals and medicines were attached to the original voucher.
7.1.3 With respect to Chegutu Municipality, expenditure amounting to $1 423 117 did not have supporting documents availed for inspection by the Auditor General and therefore the validity and accuracy of the expenditure could not be verified. The municipality’s officials submitted that payment vouchers in respect of $ 1 423 117 were later availed for inspection and that from June 2017, a system was put in place as recommended by the internal audit. The Committee was assured that before any expenditure is made, the internal auditor would go through the papers.
7.2 Committee’s Observation
7.2.1 The Committee noted that local authorities may be committing cases of fraud as they are not presenting supporting documentation for expenditures incurred.
7.3 Recommendation
All future payments by local authorities should be processed with the relevant vouchers being filed.
8.0 Employment Costs
8.1 The audit revealed that Kariba Municipality did not adhere to the 30:70 percent threshold with respect to employment costs and service delivery. The officials informed the Committee that they submitted the Municipality’s budget to the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, whose ratio of employment costs to service delivery was 40:60. They indicated that the budget was approved after the municipality had proposed some strategies to reach the accepted ratio. One of the strategies the Municipality proposed was not to fill in a position created when an employee retired or passed on.
8.1.1 On the variance between the municipality’s wage bill and the financial statement balance, the officials stated that Council engaged a doctor and some locum nurses whose payments did not go through the normal payroll system. It was submitted that the balances were reconciled and the recommendation that all payments be channelled through the payroll was adopted.
8.1.2 The Auditor observed a variance of $170 417 between the payroll balance and the balance in the financial statements which Chegutu Municipality officials could not explain. The financial statements had an amount of $2 598 285 and the payroll had an amount of $2 768 703. Officials submitted that after conducting their investigations, they established that the figure in the financial statements had been extracted from Paynet and had been understated. The
Committee was advised that $ 2 768 703 had elements of fuel and water. The Committee was informed that the control measure put in place to avoid variances of this nature involved authorisation of all payments and filing of all the documents.
8.1.3 At the time of the audit, Chinhoyi Municipality owed salary and bonus arrears totalling $ 5 082 648to their employees dating back to 2014. The Committee was informed that the 2014 salaries were cleared and that employees were owed $1,4 million as at December 2018. The Municipality officials advised the Committee that in February 2019, council was paying employees their September 2018 salaries. The officials submitted that the municipality employed a credit controller to try and improve revenue collection and that special promotions were being conducted in order to encourage residents to pay their rates. The Committee was informed that commercial customers owing council were handed over to lawyers.
8.1.4 With respect to former ZINWA workers, council officials indicated that the amount was reduced to $ 63 107, 00 with the outstanding amounts for reinstated and deceased employees having been cleared. The Committee was informed that the matter relating to arbitration was before the courts and that in February 2019 the parties decided to engage each other to reach an out of court settlement.
8.2 Committee’s Observations
8.2.1 The Committee noted that local authorities indeed owed their workers huge salaries arrears. They were also not adhering to the prescribed ratio of 30:70 for salaries and service delivery, thereby negatively impacting service delivery. It was also noted that budgets were not applied as approved.
8.3 Recommendations
- The Ministry of Local Government should conduct staff audits for local authorities and implement structural reforms to ensure that local authorities comply with the 30:70 ratio by 31 July 2020.
- All local authorities should improve industrial relations and pay all outstanding salaries to their workers by 31 July 2020.
9.0 Water Supply Shortages
9.1. The Auditor General noted that a number of municipalities experienced a general increase in population size resulting in the current daily demand for water exceeding the local authorities’ capacity to supply adequate water to residents. She noted that the incapacity was mostly related to installed infrastructure.
9.1.1. The situation relating to the reservoir in Kariba was reported in the Audit Report as so dire to the extent that water had to be pumped 24 hours a day directly from the treatment plant to consumers. This was reported to be exacerbated by power outages which resulted in immediate water cut off.
9.1.2. Kariba Municipality officials stressed to the Committee that as a local authority, they did not have water problems. They stated that the steel water tank at Mahombekombe and water reservoirs at Gibb Coyne had not been repaired, thus the challenge lay in storing water in those reservoirs before pumping it to residents. They added that some new tanks were constructed at Baobab Hill and Kasese, two of the municipality’s new suburbs. It was submitted that the rehabilitation of the two tanks was outstanding because of financial problems. The municipality reported that it had been bidding for PSIP funds every year without success. In terms of resources requirements, the officials submitted that one of the tanks required US$135 000 with the other tank requiring US$ 300 000. To try and address the funding challenge, officials indicated that the municipality was negotiating for set offs with
ZETDC with respect to electricity bills.
9.1.3 Against a background of a high number of non-functional meters, Kariba Municipality officials informed the Committee that all the public places had been metered. They stated that the Municipality created district metering areas and the intention was to determine the rates of non-revenue water which had gradually gone down from about 50%. It was reported that 504 pre-paid water metres had been installed and that 92 pre-paid metres had been delivered with another 400 expected to be delivered. Officials informed the Committee that functional metres were being installed in those areas that had nonfunctional metres. The municipality reported that it had set a target to install 1000 meters in 2018 and another 1000 in 2019.
9.1.4 An explanation of the variances observed between treated water and billed water, was that these were arising from overflows of the tanks and leakages from old pipes which needed to be replaced. The Committee was informed that the Kariba Municipality formed a committee referred to as non-revenue water which involved all departments. The Committee’s task was to monitor water balances. It was revealed that the municipality put in place a maintenance programme for each pump and motor and the local authority’s engineer would go around to check whether the pumps were being maintained.
9.1.5. The audit report revealed that Chinhoyi Municipality had a daily water supply of fifteen (15) mega litres against a demand of thirty (30) mega litres, leaving a gap of fifteen mega litres. The Committee was informed that the municipality took steps to improve water supply, resulting in an increase of between twenty (20) and twenty-two (22) mega litres. Officials submitted that the improvements made included enhanced efficiency in the delivery of water which stood at 92%. They indicated that the overall strategy was to expand the water treatment plant which required US $22 million. The other measures adopted related to addressing water losses where fourteen district meter areas were established. The officials reported that as a result of the establishment of water district meter areas, non-revenue water had been reduced from 58% to 48%.
9.1.6 The audit revealed that the water reservoirs in Chegutu Municipality had a carrying capacity of twelve and half (12, 5) mega litres in contrast to an expected twenty-two and half (22, 5) mega litres. Council officials submitted that water for the residents was sufficient and indicated that the challenge related to the water treatment plant and distribution network, where about 60% of water pumped was being lost. They reported that out of the $ 8 million required to rectify the situation $ 1 million was secured through the PSIP and the amount was used on the water treatment plant, reservoir and distribution network.
9.1.7 Chegutu Municipality officials indicated that there were four projects that were running on maintenance programmes, but the projects faced challenges because of contractors who wanted to vary contracts. The Committee learnt that the project to install water metres failed after the contractor who had been awarded the contract failed to procure them due to price escalations. It was submitted that attempts by council to secure a $1.5 loan from a bank failed to materialise because council was not given the necessary borrowing powers by the parent Ministry.
9.2 Committee’s Observations
9.2.1 The Committee noted that water reticulation systems in local authorities are dilapidated and most of the local authorities do not have long term water reticulation system plans. Most of the local authorities are not investing in water infrastructure, but are waiting for Government funding through the Public Sector Investment Programme (PSIP). It was observed that non-revenue water is high in most of the local authorities.
9.3 Recommendations
- Local authorities should produce long term water reticulation plans with specific timelines and submit to the Public Accounts Committee by 31 July 2020.
- The Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing should strictly monitor local authorities to ensure that they do not allocate stands on land before installing a water reticulation system.
- 0 Reconciliations
10.1.1. Kadoma City Council did not have bank and Ecocash reconciliations done at the time of the audit. Council officials acknowledged that reconciliations should be done monthly and explained that they could not do so before due to manpower shortages when the RTGS and Ecocash systems were introduced in 2019. They indicated that they were now able to work on the 2019 reconciliations since the system that had been adopted now was capable of separating accounts for the different years. On deposits that remained un-cleared, council officials highlighted that payments made without appropriate details had caused real challenges as they had to be traced to establish what the payments were for. They added that payments made through Ecocash did not have regular reports.
10.1.2. During the audit, the Auditor observed that the Chegutu Municipality had a backlog with the cash book reconciliations. Council officials submitted to the Committee that reconciliations were now being reviewed up to Finance Director level and that they had been done up to
December 2018. The Committee was informed that council was reconciling the January 2019 books. The Committee was also informed that variances in 2014 had been addressed in the 2015 audit. The other variances observed by the Auditor General were attributed to mispostings. Council informed the Committee that it was facing challenges when residents pay using RTGS and the council has to get details from the banks in order to identify the allocation. It was indicated that bank reconciliations were being done by a bookkeeper then reviewed by the Expenditure Accountant before being presented to the Finance Director on a monthly basis.
10.2 Committee’s Observation
10.2.1. The Committee noted that local authorities were not conducting reconciliations periodically, thereby creating opportunities for theft.
10.3 Recommendations
- Local authorities should employ qualified staff to conduct reconciliations periodically and ensure that all reconciliations are up to date by 31 August 2020.
- All local authorities should use biller codes for Ecocash payments from 1July 2020.
- Local authorities should issue up to date monthly statements to their customers from 1July 2020.
- Vehicle Registration
11.1.1. Chegutu Municipality had twelve vehicles bought after
2010 that were not registered in the municipality’s books at the time of the audit. The Committee was informed that four of the vehicles not registered at the time of the audit remained unregistered. Officials argued that the municipality had failed to locate documents required for registration purposes. This was also the case with a tractor involved in a land swap transaction. Officials however, argued that the vehicles were recorded in the log book and were reported to municipality on a monthly basis. Council indicated that all the equipment was insured after the insurance company conducted due diligence. The Committee was advised that no fines had been raised and council did not remit money to ZINARA.
11.2 Committee’s Observation
11.2.1. The Committee notes with concern that there was negligence in the management of assets.
11.3 Recommendation
All the unregistered vehicles must be registered by 31August 2020 and recorded in Chegutu Municipality’s books.
12.0 Nyamhunga Stadium Upgrade
12.1 The audit observed that variations amounting to $14 328 had been made to costs associated with the upgrading of Nyamhunga Stadium. Kariba Municipality officials submitted that the variations had been authorised and argued that they had followed proper procedures.
The officials however admitted that there had been an oversight on the
10% retention fee as required by the Procurement Act. The Committee was informed that staff was being trained on the new procurement procedures.
12.2 Committee’s Observation
12.2.1. The Committee noted that Kariba Municipality did not comply with procurement procedures.
12.2 Recommendation
Kariba Municipality should follow proper procurement procedures
in all the future transactions.
13.0 Stands sales
13.1.1. From the audit, the financial statements of Chinhoyi
Municipality indicated that $5 825 220 was realised from stands sales in 2015. This amount was different from the list of stands sold availed, which showed a total of $3 176 026, giving a variance of $2 649 194. In addition, the allocation register did not indicate the dates of sale for the stands, making it difficult for the auditors to establish stands issued during a particular period. It was also noted that customer accounts were not created in the council database for Mapako stands that had been repossessed.
13.1.2. Council officials submitted that $ 5 825 220 was the amount for stands sales in 2015. They indicated that when repossessed stands were added, the value for stands in 2015 was $ 4.1 million and the value of housing instalments stood at $ 1.7 million. The Committee was informed that council was still working on the corrective action by engaging the software provider. In terms of revenue collection efficiency in Chinhoyi, officials indicated that there had been an improvement to 50% and further improvements were expected as council was engaging residents.
13.2 Committee’s Observation
The Committee observed that there was a deliberate shambolic way of recording stand sales as a way of prejudicing the local authority.
13.3 Recommendations
- Chinhoyi Municipality should prepare an accurate stands register by 31July 2020.
- The municipality must conduct a forensic audit by 31August 2020 for all land deals concluded by Chinhoyi Municipality since dollarisation.
- Kariba Electricity Power Generation
- The Committee learnt that despite having a massive body of water, from which it pumps water and purifies it on its own, Kariba Municipality is being made to pay monthly bills to the Zimbabwe National Water Authority (ZINWA), which does not even have any officers in Kariba. Kariba Municipality also informed the Committee that despite generating electricity, they are charged a commercial tariff by the ZETDC.
- Recommendation
The ZETDC should introduce a special tariff charge for Kariba.
15.0 CONCLUSION
The Committee believes that the observations made on the four municipalities apply to other local authorities. The Committee, therefore, urges all local authorities with the same audit observations to implement the recommendations made by the Auditor General in her report and the Committee’s recommendations in this report.
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am also a member of this Committee and I rise to debate on our observations. As can be seen from the observations of the Committee, these failures to submit financial statements are not by mistake in my view. The majority of them are like hiding criminal activities that are happening in local authorities. It is actually a cardinal sin for a local authority whose purpose is to use public funds to ensure that public goods and services are provided to its citizens - then after a financial year they then fail to submit how they have used those funds. I see some sinister motives and a behaviour by local authorities that is not very good, that is very dangerous and even repugnant.
I suggest in my view that if you look at four local authorities and one is close to be doing what it is supposed to do, meaning 3 are not doing anything. Some have 3 years without submitting their financial statements. I think what we have is a serious rot and corruption happening in the local authorities. Going by the push by our President that corruption must go, we need to implore upon the Minister of Local Government to ensure that in fact all local authorities are audited and find out whether they are following what they are expected to do, if not they are fired. We do not need them if they are not giving service where it is due. For example, they are people who are working for local authorities who contribute to pension funds and their monies are not submitted to the pension fund.
The majority of these pension funds have converted from what used to be called defined benefit, where benefit would then be guarantee at retirement at a given percentage of your income. The majority of them have converted to defined contribution, meaning if your money is submitted to a pension fund, it is only that money that is going to be invested and then give you a return at retirement. These people are not submitting those contributions, meaning we have destitutes at the end of their working period they will not have anything to retire on and some are taking this money to fund their salary bills. We have councilors and executives of councils who are looting public funds and it is very deplorable and action must be taken.
Like I have said, it is very critical that the Minister of Local Government considers taking seriously the issue and maybe cause audits to be conducted in many of these municipalities. The other observation that we saw is where there are cash receipts there is no audit, where there is Ecocash transaction, there is no submission of those reports. You would see that these are easy ways where people are taking money from local authorities and are pocketing that money. It is very important that Parliament encourages Government through the Minister of Local Government to investigate these municipalities.
We have people who are there voted in to represent the citizens of that town or that rural authority, but they are doing nothing - everything is run by their executive who is the chief executive of that council. They are supposed to have an oversight of what is running in that local authority, but they are doing nothing. What do we want these people for? Mr. Speaker this is very rampant and it is not only in the four municipalities. We have dwellers in local authorities crying throughout the country, why are we not taking action? Why are we keeping these councilors and these workers of council who are misappropriating people’s monies and are not prepared to be scrutinized? From the observation of the Auditors General’s report these people are not interested in showing how they have used and spend public funds.
In my view, we do not even need to give them more time to submit these figures, we just have to have a forensic audit and fire them if they are found wanting. One other thing that you can tell, the trend is the same, it is like there is a general agreement that nobody observes what they are doing, they are very clever, and they should remain there looting people’s monies. They will go to Government, look for support if they cannot fund their services on , the activities in those local authorities. So tax payers of this country will continue to subsidize those people who are stealing.
We have a general situation in the local authorities where we have corrupt councilors, we have corrupt workers of these councils. Senior local council officer are selling stands, they are making money, they do not account to anybody, double allocations are there rampant in local authorities and we just keep them. No we cannot, I strongly recommend that we find a way of encouraging the Minister of Local Government to investigate. I think 98 percent of our local authorities are people who are stealing. They are running these local authorities like kakistocrats, worst enemies of the society. In the majority of the local authorities, there is no water and sewer is running everywhere. I was watching on television two days ago, Chitungwiza there is sewer everywhere but they are councilors who get allowances and they are workers there who earn hefty figures. Maybe we do not know the local authorities’ purpose, it is not for them to earn money but to provide services to the citizens of that local authority.
When you look at them now, it is like local authorities were designed and established for people to earn money because now they get 70% of the revenue towards their salaries and 30% towards service delivery. So, is the local authority designed for workers to make money or for service delivery? As Parliament, I think we have a duty here. We had a report on Gwanda, we saw what happened. You can see that it is widespread, what are we waiting for? Why not institute a serious investigation, imploring Government to institute a serious investigation. If we have to put commissions or whatever to safeguard the people of these cities, to protect them from these local authorities and rural authorities, we have to do it now – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] - Government cannot continue to look after local authorities who are getting revenue from people. Rates are paid but you find that they are all in arrears in many areas; they have salary arrears, where did the money go? In some local authorities Mr. Speaker, we discovered that the Chief Executive earns almost half of the salary bill. Is the local authority for the Chief Executive?
We also observed that councilors were allocating themselves land. Is it going to bring revenue to the local authority so that people get service? It is like a way of looting – serious and clear corruption - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Therefore Mr. Speaker, I feel that it is very important because some of the low level workers do not know what is happening. They see deductions on their pay slips and think that they will get something upon retirement. When they retire Old Mutual or any other pension fund will tell them, ‘There is nothing, we did not receive any contributions.’ We are here as representatives of the people in Chegutu and Chinhoyi whilst they are being swindled by irresponsible authorities in those local authorities.
So my contribution was to say that our observations were so painful. We talk about corruption somewhere but the level of corruption in local authorities is shockingly alarming and they do not even feel bad about what they are doing – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Even when we do not have water and the pipes are rusty- they do not care, as long as they take 70% of what has been contributed into their pockets.
Mr. Speaker, we need to feel for the people of these local authorities who contribute religiously. I think that until these financial reports are produced, analyzed and the Auditor-General is happy – I think that we need to request His Excellency the President to stop contributions to these local authorities who do not want to produce financial statements. By the time these audits come, they will be rich, resign and run away, but towns will be dilapidated.
So I strongly feel that this observation and this report could be extended to other local authorities if we can go again to other local authorities and verify if they were doing their duties properly, they would be providing services to their people very well but it all boils down to poor financial management, corruption and misuse of council assets. Vehicles are just being abused and land is like theirs. It does not belong to the State anymore. They take land, give it land barons and get money from behind. How can we allow them to go on like that?
We have genuine people like teachers, in this country, who are looking for stands to buy. People, who can contribute to council coffers, build their houses and pay rates but no, they do not want to give land to people who want stands directly. They have to go through land barons and that tells you that all this failure to submit financial statements is not because they do not have staff and expertise. No, they were employed, went to an interview and passed because they had shown competence but it is because they want to steal – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – They think that over time these issues can be swept under the carpet and forgotten after they have stolen people’s money.
I really submit Mr. Speaker that more should be done. We saw it in Chegutu and there are four municipalities. It has already shown a general trend that we are dealing with criminals in councils. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to add my voice onto this report from our committee on Public Accounts, especially in Chegutu where I come from. It is quite saddening because it is the epicenter, the core and heart of a Cholera and Typhoid epidemic.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the report put it bare that as Chegutu, there is a requirement of about 22 mega liters of water. I just want to paint this picture that there is production each day of 10 mega liters of water – that is the capacity at the treatment plant. By the time this water gets to the electorate or end users – it is three mega liters because of the deplorable, dilapidated and disused infrastructure. My point exactly is that we have been recycling the officials over and over again. It is not the problem of the elected officials, but the problem of those who think that they have title deeds to the Town Clerk’s position to the Financial Director’s position and Director of Housing position. It is time that we see their backs. We have seen them come and we have to see them go. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue at hand is that when the ministers are appointed, they immediately change boards. It is my clarion call that when the Minister of Local Government and Public Works is appointed, he immediately needs to change the Town Clerk and the Accounting
Officers because this is where the rot is. When the fish starts rotting, it starts from the head and these Accounting Officers act with impunity as though they have title deeds to those positions… - [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, tiri kuvhima nembwa dzisiri dzedu.
These Town Clerk’s positions were meant and were put in place to safeguard some politically inclined people as opposed to technical inclination in those positions.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you will find that the majority of these people have teacher qualifications and you ask yourself, ‘Whose interests were they benefitting during their time?’ We have seen the former Minister of Local Government and Public Works go but he had entrenched himself in political position using these Town Clerk’s positions and you will find that they have no capacity to be where they are. As long as we do not remove and uproot them, we will continue to have a disused state and dilapidated infrastructure in terms of water and sewer reticulation Mr. Speaker Sir.
We have 15 million people in Zimbabwe but those who are holding Town Clerk’s positions and the people at ransom is just about 92 local authorities. We need to employ our youth. There are a lot of graduates who have the right to be in those positions. These people who are acting with impunity at the expense of the masses, especially of
Chegutu West Constituency and Zimbabwe in general should now go. They are just but a few of them that know what they are doing and these that have been mentioned here in the four local authorities, save for Chinhoyi, do not know what they are doing.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I conclude, you have seen that when we looked at these Auditor General’s Reports from 2014, Chegutu had not produced financial reports for auditing. They had not, even any financial statements to say the least. It is because they want to hide a lot Mr. Speaker Sir. You have heard that there are 12 new vehicles that were produced, that were given to them but it is just incumbent upon them to register them to CVR so that in turn they get to be put in the asset register but you will find that by the time of visit to Chegutu Municipality, four of those vehicles, if the Committee had not requested to see them or to hear about them, you would have found that they
would have disappeared off the face of Chegutu and the earth and Zimbabwe, including a whole tractor. In Chegutu, it does not exist. It is not there in the books. Mr. Speaker Sir, four whole vehicles are not there. Why should we keep such people Mr. Speaker?
The accounting officer, his first name is Alex and his second name is Mandigo. It is my recommendation and clarion call that let us have somebody who takes over that position, lest we continue to have this decay in terms of accountability. Mr. Speaker Sir, let me not come here again and debate on the same matter. There are more than 15 million people and in Chegutu West Constituency there are 6 724 youths between 18 and 35. A vast number of them are graduates. There should not be anything without them Mr. Speaker. Let us see the end of this town clerk. I speak on Chegutu because yours truly is the Member of Parliament for Chegutu West Mr. Speaker Sir.
For a very long time the accounting officer has been employing the wrong people in the right positions. I will give you an example; there was an accounting officer who had come in from NOCZIM against the dictates and the advice from yours truly. I said, ‘this man has stolen from NOCZIM, leave him to go. Do not employ’ him but against that advice they employed him and fired him because he had stolen. Shiri ine muririro wayo haiuregi Mr. Speaker Sir. It is my thinking that if this man could not take advice, it is may be because he has got other interests than the interests of the electorate and the community at large. There are vast tracks of land that Chegutu has also received for the benefit of housing infrastructure in Chegutu, a thousand and thirty hactares Mr. Speaker Sir but Chegutu still has a backlog of 25 thousand household. Five hundred hactares is good enough for 50 thousand households at a minimum of 200sqm each but we have impediments. We have people who block that and they are championed by this accounting officer.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may you help me. Help me Mr. Speaker. Help the people of Chegutu West Constituency and also of Zimbabwe in general in terms of accountability, lest we continue to have the pilferage of these resources. Mr. Speaker Sir, I have said there is a backlog of 25 thousand households but we have enough for 100 thousand in terms of the amount of land that we have. If it is not going to the people, who is it going to? If it is not going to the interests of the people, whose interest is it serving except for this accounting officer? I rest my case Mr. Speaker Sir and I hope you can hear me so that the people of Chegutu West Constituency who send their love can also be embedded with you in terms of the ethos, the values and their interests. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I thank you.
*HON. DUTIRO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank Hon. Raidza who has moved this motion. Staying in rural areas is quite interesting because you will find all amenities in one place, however staying in urban areas is now risky because there is shortage of water. You heard what is needed by local councils - $22 million. The Chegutu Constituency which was alluded to was given $1 million but there is no water up to now in Chegutu. Only 30% of water is availed to that community, the rest is being lost. Corruption which was mentioned by the Hon. Member has led to resistance particularly urban dwellers who no longer want to pay their rates. Complaints are being raised that urban dwellers are not paying their rates. They are not paying because they do not see the value of paying those rates because of corruption. Looking at most urban areas, home owners work for their municipal authorities by developing and servicing roads and doing various projects. Their contributions are not going anywhere. All that money is being taken by their councils. In their old age, these people would suffer because they will not be benefiting their pension or from their medical aid contributions. Town councils are now facing more challenges than rural areas. This is what is happening right now in local authorities.
They are facing challenges.
We heard that auditors have been auditing authorities yet they are not presenting reports. Local Government regulations stipulate that auditors are supposed to audit and present their reports, so where is the problem.
Corruption in terms of recruitment is prevalent in municipal authorities. This has led to auditors lacking transparency and not giving audit reports when they are needed. Failure to do that means, they must lose their jobs. Contracts are being given out yet there is nothing to show that those that are given contracts deserve them. If they fail to deliver within three or four years, they are supposed to be given to other people who are deserving. You discover that in most big cities, councillors are now rich. They have many stands which they are distributing to land barons. We heard that Chinhoyi has no stand register. This is universal to most urban councils. When you demand an urban stand register, you will have problems with a CEO of that particular council. This means that all local authorities must submit their registers to their Minister so that there is transparency in terms of allocation of stands because there are some urban dwellers who were conned and who were victims of double allocation of stands. That is why I am saying that corruption should end in local authorities. If it were possible, I would suggest that the situation be solved as a matter of urgency.
The Ministry of Local Government should set up commissions to restore confidence in local authorities. This is expected to improve relations between urban dwellers and their authorities. I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd June, 2020.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON.
NDUNA, the House adjourned at Eighteen Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 28th May, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
LINKING UP OF IPADS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to remind Hon. Members to link up with Ipads so that you can follow proceedings properly. You have been given the link code so let us utilise the gadgets accordingly.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. Today, Mr. Speaker Sir, is the menstrual hygiene day and with me here are re-usable pads that Members of Parliament can get manufactured in their constituencies for the girl child. This year’s theme is ‘periods in pandemics’. Each day an estimated 300 million people menstruate around the world and being able to access sanitary products, safe and hygiene spaces in which to use them and the right to manage their periods without shame is essential.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what I would like to draw to you as our leader; by leading by example is that I will also give you one of these and it says, promote education for boys, men and mothers, teachers, health workers and other professionals so that they can help break the negative social norms and provide accurate information and support. We must break that and we break that by you as our leader being in the forefront of it so that there is no stigmatization and negative connotations which are extended to the girl child. The girl child is important in that when their self-esteem is together, they are confident and able to take us to another level. We always say, “musha mukadzi
but zvinotangira vachiri vadiki tichivakudza” and so forth.
With that, I really would like to say to Members of Parliament here that we are together in this. I was in the constituency where I met teachers and headmasters to talk about this. In Norton, we are actually starting to make these from tomorrow. We have received ten sewing machines, hand used and we have picked people disabled and the vulnerable to be part of this so that employment can also be created also looking at those who did well in fashion and fabrics who do not have a job. We can actually do so much for our communities and with the Community Development Fund that we get, I implore Members of Parliament to spend some of the money to buy sewing machines so that our communities can be seen to be worthy because we are supporting the girl child. I have got five of these and I would like you to have one and the Leader of Government business to have another so that Government takes seriously this initiative. We moved the issue of sanitary wear; I remember Hon. Majome and Hon.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga and yes it was extended, the Minister of
Finance said they were now duty free. However, that is not enough Sir, this is not an option. If you go to our toilets as the men, the condoms are easily available for free. Sanitary wear should also be equally available for free because this is not their choice; this is how God made them at the end of the day. So may we, as a nation implore that these be available for the girl child and they are for free. There is no need for them to pay for this. I thank you – [HON. MLISWA:
Shall I extend these to you?]-
Hon. T. Mliswa extended to the Hon. Speaker, the Leader of the Government Business and the Clerk of Parliament samples of the reusable sanitary wear.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I want to applaud Hon. Mliswa for the
initiative and the point of privilege. I am sure he has challenged all of us in our various stations to ensure that in a small way, we contribute towards this important necessity in the health of our girl child. I would also go further - it is not only the girl child. Out there in the rural areas in particular, generally, women have no access to this facility. So you need to go beyond the girl child. Some of the stories we hear are very devastating in terms of how the womenfolk who are in that situation take care of themselves. It is sometimes very pathetic. Let us extend it to the womenfolk who go through that cycle, and let us be seen to be active accordingly.
I hope that when we meet next week, some people will be
telling us that they have started the initiative similar to that taken by Hon. Mliswa. It is very important also to educate the public about the issue, do not make it a private affair - speak about it at your public meeting when you meet the electorate so that you raise the awareness of the necessity for this hygienic need among our womenfolk.
It would also be very important to engage the private sector to come on board so that together, we can achieve greater success in the campaign for the womenfolk, particularly the girl child.
HON. MUNETSI: I have risen to say each time when we come to Parliament, it has always been a nightmare for Members of
Parliament on where to access fuel when they want to go back home.
I have risen to thank Hon. Shamu for providing fuel to most of the Hon. Members in this august House –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- Now, is it not possible, with your indulgence Mr. Speaker, that the Hon. Member be provided with more funding so that he can access more fuel and keep fuel for the Parliamentarians whenever there is need? I thank.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think that is one of the few relevant points of privilege. The Committee on Standing Rules and Orders resolved that we designate some fuel stations; including the one run by Hon. Shamu as well as Petroltrade and CMED, in addition to PUMA and Redan Service Stations. Engagement has taken place with the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Energy and Power Development to effect that arrangement so that the Hon. Members are not unduly disadvantaged in terms of accessing fuel. I thank you.
HON. MURIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mine is a point
of privilege relating to the Mace, the stick which the Serjeant –at- Arms holds when he walks in. Whenever you walk in here, we all rise in respect of Mr. Speaker’s office. In front to alert us to stand is the Serjeant at Arms and he will be holding the Mace whose head signifies the Queen. It is now 40 years after independence - to me it will look like we are respecting the Queen and we stand up in respect of the Queen represented herein by Mr. Speaker.
Now that we intend to move to the new Parliament Building, is it not possible that we remove that head and the Treasury provides funds so that we have something that resembles our flag and our coat of arms. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Interestingly enough we have all unwittingly proceeded in the procession the way we have done for the past 40 years. We commend you for rising up to the occasion in observation, which is quite pertinent.
May I inform you that the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders has assigned the Committee on Cultural Affairs and Heritage which is led by none other than our Government Chief Whip, Hon. Togarepi and he is working with his team on the design and other artifacts that need to decorate our Parliament and cut therefore the umbilical cord from the colonial era.
His committee has gone further to say that the dress code of the Presiding Officers and their assistants will also need to be redesigned in order to reflect our national identity. It is work in progress and I am sure this should be attained before the end of this year and before we move to the new Parliament in March next year. Further than that, his committee is working with other key stakeholders in the design of the national dress both for men and women and that is on course as well. We are hoping that there should be some new complexion in terms of attire that will be relevant to our national identity.
We thank you for that but I want to register that your observation is indeed welcome and it is a matter that Hon. Togarepi and his team are dealing with.
+HON. MABOYI: I rise on a matter of privilege relating to what was discussed yesterday with regards to people who tested positive to Covid-19. I am bitter about what is happening currently considering the fact that Covid-19 is spreading so widely in our country. I have gathered that people who have tested positive using these machines that determine whether someone is ill or not is only being done to those in quarantine centres.
My issue relates to those people at the borders like Chiredzi, Beitbridge, Mutare, Plumtree and Victoria Falls. This virus is in the country and it is true. It is spread by people who are coming in illegally and I will focus mainly on my areas which are
Chikwalakwala, Beitbridge and Shashi. There are so many people who have come into the country through illegal means. I have been to these places teaching people about Coronavirus. I was driving from Beitbridge to Shashi and on my way to these places, I met 20 boys and men who were seated just after crossing the river. They tried to run away when they saw the car. I called them and they came closer to my car. I talked to them explaining about this disease.
Is it not possible to try and rectify this issue as a country? We should go to the rural areas and talk to people because indeed this virus is now spreading widely in this country. What we are doing appears not to be enough. We need to really look into this issue because we are likely going to get a bombshell especially when this Coronavirus gets to our rural areas. I thank you.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: I thank you Hon. Member. I am
looking forward to us making sure that if we get enough funds we can try and make sure that those who are responsible for the security of our country, especially the police and the army do what is being done in neighbouring South Africa, to make sure that they monitor all the borders although they may not be 100% in doing their duty. There is likely going to be a reduction in those people walking into the country illegally so that the number of those people who are found to be positive with Covid-19 is reduced.
Your message is very important because the number of those people who are found to be Covid-19 positive is from those people who are coming in from our neighbouring countries like Botswana and South Africa. I hope the Minister responsible for health will make sure that they take into consideration these measures that we are putting across.
I realise that the Leader of the House is making a discussion with Hon Misihairabwi-Mushonga. I guess he is trying to get further explanation as to what was said. The number of those who have been quarantined coming from outside the country have increased the numbers of those who are infected by Coronavirus. I was saying in Ndebele that it will be necessary for Government to consider, inspite of the limited resources, to deploy our security forces along the borders to reduce the number of those that illegally cross back into Zimbabwe thereby bringing in possibilities of Coronavirus and thereby increasing the numbers of those that are infected as has been demonstrated in the past three days – that was the message. We hope and trust that you will take the matter up with Government.
HON. NDIWENI: I rise on a point of privilege. We applaud the move taken by this Parliament to move with the provisions of deterring the Covid-19 pandemic and you have moved this Parliament to go virtual in some instances but our worry and challenge that we are facing is the server that is used – whether it is the size of the
server or bandwidth which is being used, we are having challenges in logging on to this server. I wish it could be looked into and then the server is improved.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I do not know whether this has come as an inspiration for the Government Chief Whip. The points of privileges are so pertinent that I did not have to turn someone down because of misdirected point of privilege. Please keep it up.
As far as your observation is concerned, I have just discussed with the Director responsible for ICT and by next week, there should be some improvement. I have indicated that we may need to use these screens so that there is double vision in terms of following what is happening in the House. The Clerk of Parliament is seized with the matter. What remains now is the implementation.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of recommendation, we did not see the Minister or the Deputy Minister of Health and Child Care. Can we have a ministerial statement next week from the Department of Health and also to talk about the inflated prices of masks and kits?
This is an issue which has been in the public domain in that they have inflated a mask. A kit which was US$35 has gone up to US$90 and apparently, Treasury has paid that amount of money. We would also want to understand on the number of kits that we have in the country which were donated and how they were disbursed; what figure are they allowing the suppliers to charge for them to be able to pay. We need to understand that so that we are in the picture. This is a very important issue. It seems to have opened a can of corrupt activities as well.
We would also want to know how much civil servants who are in all these centres are paid per day because there are some who are said to be manning some quarantine centres and the funds are not getting there. There is also some abuse of funds.
We would like to know of the money allocated for Covid-19, how much has gone to each and every sector that they are working with.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Leader of the House, you will advise the question of availability, pricing structure – some suppliers are charging in US$; very astronomical prices and the question of our preparedness as Hon. Mliswa has indicated in the fight against the Coronavirus - if that statement can be made as early as possible next week when the House resumes sitting.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that
Orders of Day Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until Order Number 4 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CONSTITUTIONAL COURT BILL [H. B. 11, 2019] Fourth Order read: Second Reading: Constitutional Court Bill
[H. B. 11, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker
Sir, I rise to present the Constitutional Court Amendment Bill. This is a long overdue piece of legislation whose delay can be explained by the need for extensive consultation with stakeholders and most importantly with the judiciary itself who have expressed themselves to be satisfied with the end product before you. Additional considerations lend urgency to this Bill as I will explain below.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Members are aware that the
Constitutional Amendment Number 20 Act which gave birth to the present Constitution was ascended to by the President and promulgated on the 22nd of May 2013. On the same day, the
Constitutional Court came into being. Under the terms of the Sixth Schedule to the new Constitution, this court has the same composition as the Supreme Court for a period of seven years ending on the 22nd of
May 2020 at which date the Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court must become separate courts.
As this date has already passed, vacancies in the High Court caused by the elevation of Judges of the Supreme Court, vacancies in the Constitutional Court caused by the elevation of judges of the
Supreme Court are being filled on an acting capacity on the basis in terms of Section 181 of the Constitution as read with paragraph 18 (3) of the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution. Up to this date, the
Constitutional Court has been able to operate smoothly in its Constitutional Court capacity and as the Supreme Court.
In 2016, separate rules for the Constitutional Court were published in Statutory Instrument 61 of 2016 enacted by virtue of paragraph 18 (4) (a) of the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution.
However with the split of the Supreme Court from the Constitutional Court, the need for a separate Constitutional Court Act has become ever more salient and pertinent. The memorandum to the Bill hopefully has set forth all the most conspicuous features of the proposed legislation and I will not rehearse them for you except to draw your attention to two clauses of the Bill in particular.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Clause 22 of the Bill carries over into this Bill the provisions of Section 24 subsection 5 and 6 of the previous Constitution relating to the invalidation of a law. As Hon. Members will know, only the Constitutional Court may make a final decision whether an Act of Parliament is constitutional and must confirm any order of constitutional invalidity made by another court before that order has any force. I will refer you to Section 167 (3) of the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, litigants in the recent past have on several occasions approached the Constitutional Court to invalidate this or that law as being unconstitutional without giving the AttorneyGeneral adequate notice of such proceedings. The Attorney-General being responsible among other things for the drafting of legislation is a vitally interested party whenever it is sort to show that a law was improperly or invalidly enacted for any reason. Clause 22 makes it clear that the Attorney-General has an automatic right to be heard by the court on that issue.
The next clause, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to advert to is Clause 23 of the Bill. This clause embodies two important principles of constitutional avoidance and of subsidiarity recently adopted by our Constitutional Court. These, Mr. Speaker Sir, are salutary principles of judicial restraint that the court exercises whenever it determines constitutional applicants seeking remedies from it that are also availed by statute. They are salutary because consistently with the doctrine of separation of powers, they give due respect to Parliament’s statutory remedies for civil wrongs if these are seen to be adequate to the case before the Constitutional Court.
Firstly, the principle of avoidance states that remedies should be found in legislation before resorting to constitutional remedies. Secondly, the principle of subsidiarity states that norms of greater specificity should be relied on before resorting to norms of greater abstraction. Hon. Speaker Sir, this is per Malaba DCJ as he was known then in the case of Zinyemba vs Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement and Yakub Mahomed in the Constitutional Court case number 3 of 2016. The Principle of Avoidance is in effect a restatement of the following proviso to Section 24 (4) of the old Constitution and I quote:-
‘The Supreme Court may decline to exercise its powers of intervention under this subsection if it is satisfied that adequate means of redress for the contravention alleged are or have been availed to the person concerned under other provisions of this Constitution or under any other law.’
In conclusion Mr. Speaker Sir, I urge Hon, Members to pass this law and in doing so raise another important milestone in the ongoing process of the alignment of our laws to the Constitution. I so submit Mr. Speaker Sir and move that the Bill be read a second time. I thank you.
Maybe on a point of procedure Hon. Speaker, I am advised by the Chair of the Committee of Justice that his report is not yet ready. So with your indulgence, I move that we adjourn debate so that we can avail them an opportunity to present first before the Hon.
Members have presented. I submit Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Chair of that Committee should have approached this Chair on time so that I would have been guided accordingly.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Point noted Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I was waiting for that.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you. I could see that.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: On why we are adjourning?
HON. T. MLISWA: No, on this system of the Chairman then saying I will come back to you and so forth. I want to give examples of this happening many times and we never see the thing getting any light of day. It seems to be a habit.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you start from the beginning?
HON. T. MLISWA: I am a bit worried that the Committee on Justice has a lot of outstanding issues. A good example is SI 62 which was on the land issue and it was controversial and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs said that there is that provision which we know that each SI which is passed, if it is not in line with our mandate to represent people should be interrogated.
You agree, Mr. Speaker Sir, there are too many SIs which really have come out and we as Parliament have been quiet about these SIs which have really hindered the welfare of the people. So my question is with this again, they seem to be overwhelmed with a lot of SIs which they are saying they will look into and see if there is anything wrong and so forth. It must be a worrying concern for anybody living in this country, that the number of Statutory Instruments (S.Is) this Government has passed this year is unbelievable and we cannot continue like that. What is the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs doing about interrogating them because the Ministers have continued to pass SI’s without any interrogation, it is the order of the day. With the rules that we all live by Mr. Speaker Sir, is it possible for the Committee of Justice and Legal Affairs to also interrogate SI’s which come through and also fulfill some of the SI’s that have sailed.
By now, they have been overtaken by events.
So the issue of SI’s is something that they are overwhelmed with because they are moving faster than even Hussein Bolt himself. It is important that we also interrogate for the better governance of this country because a country cannot be run by SI’s, there must be something wrong. What is the Portfolio on Justice and Legal Affair doing to interrogate those?
THE HON. SPEAKER: If you read the Standing Orders very carefully, SI’s and Bills fall immediately under the purview of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. Last week, or the last time we sat, it was reported in this House that all SI’s that had been passed in the months of March and April did not violate the Constitution. If Hon. Mliswa could revert to the Hansard, you will find that out. As for the controversial SI 61, you wanted a comment on that.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker
Sir. I wanted to bring to the attention of the House that the Hon. Member is mixing the role of Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) and the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee. I am the Chairman of the Justice Committee and not of the PLC. So SI’s, including the SI 61 that he is referring to, which had a clause on the repossession of land - was referred to the PLC and not to the Justice Committee. I so happen to be also a Member of the PLC. With the indulgence of the Chairman, I will comment that we had an opportunity to look at all the SI’s for the two months of March and April, including the one he is referring to. Like you said Mr. Speaker Sir, we did not see any unconstitutionality in the SI. Thank you very much.
HON. T. MLISWA: Are they not supposed to report to this
House, I just want to know?
THE HON. SPEAKER: They did Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: They did?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes. That is why I said check your
Hansard.
HON. T. MLISWA: Sorry, I will check it then. Thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday: 2nd June, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker, I
move that we revert back to Order Number 1 on the Order Paper.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
MARRIAGES BILL [H. B. 7, 2019]
First Order read: Committee Stage: Marriages Bill [H. B. 7,
2019].
House in Committee.
Clauses 21 to 39 put and agreed to.
On Clause 40:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Hon. Chair, after much debate and much consideration, I move the amendment standing in my name as it appears in the Order Paper of today that on page 15 of the Bill, delete sub-clause (5) on lines 30 and 31 and substitute the following subclauses:
“(5) A civil partnership exists-
- where both of the partners are not married, civilly or customarily, to anyone else; or
- where both of the partners were not married, civilly or customarily, to anyone else; and subsequently either of them marry someone else, civilly or customarily, in which event only those assets acquired by them before the marriage to the other person (or the first of the marriages, as the case may be) shall be capable of being divided, apportioned or distributed by the court on dissolution of the partnership.
Provided that if their partnership still subsists after the marriage of one or both of them to the persons, those assets acquired by them jointly after the marriage to the other person (or the first of the marriages, as the case may be) shall be divided, apportioned or distributed in accordance with subsection (6);
- where one of the partners is married civilly to someone else and also married customarily to the other partner, in which event-
(i) subsection (6) applies to the division, apportionment or distribution of the assets in contention; and
(ii)the civil partners shall be deemed to be in an unregistered customary law marriage despite the fact that it was not registered timeously in accordance with Section 16 (1) and that the marriage consideration was not paid or fully paid at the time of dissolution; and
(iii) it is here provided that, by virtue of the partners dissolving their civil partnership, neither of them shall be deemed to be guilty of bigamy under Section 104 of the Criminal Law Code.
(6) where one of the persons in a civil partnership is legally married to someone else in a marriage that it is not an unregistered customary law marriage (this person being hereinafter called the
“civil married partner”), no part of the assets the civilly married partner shall be capable of being divided, apportioned or distributed with the civil partner except those that the civil partner proves- (a) where purchased or acquired using her own resources;
(b) were purchased or acquired using the resources of the civilly married partner that-
- constitute the income of the civilly married partner as an employee; or
- constitute the income of the civilly married partner from the business of the civilly married partner-
- in which the spouse of the civilly married partner had no legally verifiable stake in the form of shares or a partnership interest in the business; or
- in which the partner of the civilly married partner had a legally verifiable stake in the form of shares or a partnership interest in the business;
- constitute the income of the civilly married partner from the investments or the civilly married partner that were made using income referred to subparagraphs (i) and (ii);
(c) were purchased or acquired jointly using her own resources and that the resources of the civilly married partner referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b).”
Hon. Chair, what we have tried to do is to ensure that those that are married, we have removed them and this is what has caused so much debate surrounding this Clause. This is the proposal that I am proposing so that we protect the rights of those that are in partnership but are not married.
Amendment to Clause 40 put and agreed to.
Clause 40, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 41 to 53 put and agreed to.
THE CHAIRPERSON: May I remind Hon. Members that
there was an additional Clause, that was Clause 10 of the Bill. What it now means is that instead of having 53 Clauses we now have 54 Clauses.
House resumed.
Bill reported with Amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 2, 3, 5 and 6 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 7 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE AMENDMENT BILL [H. B.
14, 2019]
Seventh Order read: Attorney General’s Office Amendment Bill [H. B. 14, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. I rise to give my Second Reading speech for the
Attorney General’s Office Amendment Bill. The Attorney-General’s
Office Amendment Bill is an amendment of a law passed by
Parliament in 2011, namely the Attorney General’s Office [Chapter 7:19]. It contains a commencement clause which has not yet been activated.
Before the Act could be brought into effect, discussions had already begun on the writing of a new Constitution, under which it was proposed that the Attorney General should no longer be the head of the prosecution arm of the Office. This arm was proposed to be spun off to a new independent entity called the National Prosecuting Authority. The new Constitution provided accordingly when it was brought into force in 2013. The following year, Parliament enacted the National Prosecuting Authority [Chapter 7:20]. This left the
Attorney General responsible for the divisions of Advice and
International Law, Legislative Drafting and the Civil Division.
Now the same considerations that motivated the spinning off of the prosecution arm apply with equal force to the remainder of the
Attorney-General’s Office, namely the appearance and reality of impartiality in the discharge of its functions, and the need to retain and hire staff of a calibre adequate to the discharge of those functions.
The Attorney-General’s Office, let me remind you, assists the Attorney General to discharge his onerous constitutional duties, among the most important of which is to “promote, protect and uphold the rule of law and to defend the public interest” (Section 114
(4) (d) of the Constitution).
These arguments for the separation of Attorney General’s Office from the Civil Service were adequately canvassed back in 2011 when the principal Act was passed and I will not go over them again. The main objects of the present Bill are threefold.
Firstly, the Bill will enable the Attorney General to be assisted by Deputy Attorney-Generals. Originally from 2007, each head of division within his office was a Deputy AG and there were four of them responsible for prosecution, the civil division, drafting and legal advice. This number was reduced by redeployment of the original Deputy Attorney-Generals down to one only, whose post is in existence by virtue of the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution. There is need therefore, to formalise the appointment of additional Deputy Attorney-Generals by Act of Parliament.
Secondly, it is intended that all legal officers employed in the
Civil Service should come under the single roof of the Attorney General’s Office with the Attorney-General as their head. Presently, public legal officers are appointed on a piecemeal basis to the
Attorney General’s Office and to the several ministries of Government. Since the Attorney General is the top legal officer anyway, all those employed outside his office must refer their legal opinion to him. This Bill formalises the fact that every legal public officer is answerable to the Attorney General for his/her work and therefore must be subject to his discipline and not that of the Ministry in which they were formally employed. The only exception is where a legal officer is employed under the discipline of a uniformed or security service. These latter officers will not form part of the professional staff of the Attorney General’s Office because they belong to a separate chain of command.
Finally, this Bill puts into words what has been recognised in practice before, namely that the opinions of the Attorney General on a question of law are binding on the Executive unless overturned by a court of law. Accordingly, the opinions of individual legal officers in the Government must be in conformity with that of the Attorney General on the same matter since the Attorney General is the principal legal officer of the Government. This applies also to the opinions of the legal officers employed in and under the discipline of a uniformed or security service. However, the opinions of the Attorney General are not binding on autonomous statutory bodies that employ the services of a private legal practitioner. Autonomous statutory bodies, let me remind you, are deemed to be separate from the State and may be sued in their own right.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, in conclusion, I urge Hon. Members to pass this law and in doing so, raise another important milestone in the ongoing process of the alignment of our laws to the Constitution. I thank you Madam Speaker and I now move that this Bill be read a second time.
HON. DR. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Madam
Speaker Ma’am. Due to the COVID lockdown, the Committee could
not undertake the necessary public hearings, so my report on the Bill is not yet ready. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
Speaker Ma’am, with the indulgence of the House, I move that we adjourn debate on the Second Reading of the Attorney General’s Bill.
I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 2nd June, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL
AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the
House adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 2nd June, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 27th May, 2020
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
HOUSE DECORUM
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have two announcements. The first
one relates to order in the House and the question of decorum in terms of our Standing Order Number 76 (1). Every Member must –
- appear in attire befitting the dignity of the House;
- make obeisance to the Chair in passing to and from his or her seat and upon entering and leaving the Chamber;
- not pass between the Chair and any Member who is speaking, nor between the Chair and the Table;
- not stand in any of the passages or gangways in such a way that they block the vision of the Speaker to other parts of the
Chamber.
- If the Speaker or the Chairperson, as the case may be, is of the opinion that the attire of a Member present in the Chamber during a sitting of the House is unsuitable or unbecoming to the dignity of the House, he or she may order that Member to withdraw from the precincts of Parliament until such time as the Member concerned is suitably dressed.
- The provisions of this suborder must apply mutatis mutandis to a meeting of a Select Committee. In other words, your dress code here in the Chamber must be exactly the same when you attend your committee meetings.
- For the avoidance of doubt, suitable attire shall be construed to mean formal dressing for both male and female Members. 5) The attire for male Members shall include the following – a) suit;
- jacket and tie;
- safari suit.
6) The attire for female Members shall include the following –
- suits;
- African wear;
- full dresses;
- skirts and blouses.
7) The following shall be excluded –
- jeans;
- t-shirts;
- sleeveless outfits; and
- any other outfit or attire which the Chair or Presiding Officer may see unfit.
CONFIGURATION OF ICT TABLETS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to remind Hon. Members to bring
their tablets for further configurations to enable them to participate in virtual meetings. Officers from the ICT department are stationed at the Members’ Dining Hall to assist Hon. Members. Members of
Parliament in the Chamber are also being encouraged to log on to the Zoom platform during debates to enable other Hon. Members to follow proceedings from the breakaway rooms.
I have received some request for privileges from Hon. M.
Nkomo, Hon. Nyabani and Hon. Misiharabwi-Mushonga.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of
privilege is that looking at our country at the moment, we were elected by the people to represent them and legislate so that the economy of this country could be developed. I have however observed as I move around the country that the prices o f commodities have gone up. In the past, people used to access funds from the bank but the money is now on the streets. If you hearken to a child when he or she is asked where milk comes from, they will indicate that it comes from a tin, oblivious of the fact that milk comes from the cow due to the fact that most children are not used to see cows producing milk but buying it from shops.
We have Committees such as the one on Budget and Finance, Industry and Commerce - it is the duty of this august House to come up with laws. Why are we failing to come up with laws that are progressive and will enhance the development of this country so that the likes of Nyabani and others know that they can access their money from the banks? We should not have runaway inflation, $1 500 as the price of sugar. Many a times as Members of Parliament, we are seated and doing nothing about it. Our constituents have been and are asking what the state of affairs is with regards to our country’s economy?
My plea to you Hon. Speaker is let us look into such issues so that the people we represent in our rural constituencies appreciate the work that we are doing here.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your point of privilege, Hon. Nyabani makes some intelligent contribution regarding the state of our economy. I suppose your suggestion can also be tackled directly and addressed by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development, while the two Committees you have mentioned can also probe into the matter so that in the end, there will be a meeting of minds in the process of trying to harness the runaway inflation. So
we shall engage the Hon. Minister of Finance accordingly and he should make a statement to this august House on the way forward.
+HON. M. NKOMO: I would like to be assisted on my point of privilege by the Leader of the House. It concerns the Covid-19 pandemic that came whilst we had not yet received our vehicles as Members of Parliament, which vehicles we are supposed to use to move around our constituencies educating people on this pandemic. Therefore, I would like to find out when we are going to get our cars as the Ninth Parliament.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Member
for your point of privilege. However, I understand what you said, there was a group from the Committee of Budget and Finance that met the Minister of Finance and Economic Development who is responsible for the National Budget and he was made aware of that issue.
The Minister of Finance has written to me concerning that issue, saying that he will sit down with the Governor of the Reserve
Bank of Zimbabwe so that they can try and get the foreign currency in order for them to quickly pay for the cars for all the Hon. Members of Parliament. I received the letter on Friday last week. Hon. Minister Ziyambi is the Chairman of the board which is looking into the issue of vehicles for Members of Parliament. He is ensuring that this process is handled quickly by the Minister of Finance who handles the National Budget. I thank you.
HON. MISIHARABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Hon. Speaker. My point of privilege is to bring to the attention of the
House and yourself, Hon. Speaker that today is Menstrual Health Day. I know Mr. Speaker that you, in your personal capacity have really been supportive to the conversations around menstrual health. Today as we celebrate Menstrual Health, I just want to bring it to your attention that our ladies toilets, up to now do not have the equipment that allows for female Members of Parliament to access pads or tampons.
I think charity begins at home, if we are going to speak about menstrual health and understand what it means for women to access or not access, we need ourselves to be sensitive to that process. It does not take a lot, it just takes us putting the machinery there and it does not have to be for free; female Members of Parliament are able to just buy. As you may know, menstrual periods do not necessarily wait for lockdown nor do they give you a warning sometimes. So, when you do not see the female Members of Parliament or when you see them dashing away, it is because nature has called and we do not have access to those things. I thought as a celebration of that particular day, I should bring that to your attention.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. The way they are seated there is wrong. I am a bit dismayed by our ministers with the way they are seating here. They must know their hierarchy – the way they sit in Cabinet even at the party. I can actually assist them in terms of that structure. They cannot just sit like that. You are a Deputy Minister (Hon Chiduwa) but he is senior in the party and he is number six in terms of security in the Politburo. You cannot sit there. Find somewhere to sit. I do not have to tell you that. We need to exercise that, whether you are a Minister of Finance or not, you are a junior in the party. He is the Secretary for Security. Find somewhere to sit. Honestly, we cannot continue like this. Look at that! What do people say about us? I was more senior than you. I have been a Central Committee member of the party.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Ministers, please find space that side. Do you want me to mention you by name?
Hon. Mliswa, thank you for your protocol observation. Perhaps, you might need to reconsider going back where you belong-[HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear].
It is an important day today indeed and with your permission, female Members of Parliament, I have been inspecting the male toilets but I was hesitant to go into your female toilets. From now onwards, I will be escorted by the Deputy Speaker who will be the vanguard to check if there is anyone inside so that she ensures that the facilities requested by Hon Misihairabwi-Mushonga are in place. I request the Deputy Speaker to be on my toes and ensure that is done as soon as possible.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I
realise that the Minister of Health and Child Care is not here and so is the Deputy Minister at a time when Covid-19 has uncertainty. We have just come from a break. We are seized with questions especially about children who will be writing examinations. We would want to know whether teachers, headmasters and students will be tested. It is only him who can answer that. I do not think that the Leader of Government Business will be qualified to answer that. I am surprised that neither of them is here at a time like this.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not receive any apology. Leader of the House, would you want to speak on their behalf?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I had sent
messages that all Deputy Ministers must come to Parliament because
Monday was a holiday and today there was Cabinet. I requested His
Excellency to release some Ministers. We have the Deputy
Chairperson of the National Taskforce, Hon. Muchinguri who is very much seized with all the issues pertaining to Covid. The Minister of Health was still engaged. There are several ministers who can tackle issues to do with Covid that are in the taskforce, for example the
Minister of Local Government, the Minister of Social Welfare and the Minister of Higher Education. They are heavily involved in the taskforce and I believe the ministers who are here, given the competing meetings that have been there and the need to respect the institution of Parliament are able to answer the questions at hand, hence you saw us coming while Cabinet was still in session. I believe other Cabinet Ministers who are here will beef in where the Cabinet Ministers who are here would have left out.
I believe Hon Speaker, with your indulgence, I send apologies to Cabinet Ministers because of the need to have Cabinet today due to the holiday on Monday. I think the attendance is not very bad.
THE HON. SPEAKER: As you rightly said, I think Deputy
Ministers should have been here definitely to assist the Hon Ministers who you said are fully seized with the matter on Covid-19.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. The issue is not about them being seized but it is respecting this House by sending in apologies, which is a requirement of which they did not do that and many others too. Whether they are attending Cabinet or not, this is an important institution in terms of oversight. It is because they look down upon this institution. No wonder why Members of Parliament have not gotten cars. The Cabinet Ministers have got two cars each already before Members of Parliament have cars. That is how lowly we are looked down upon. It cannot continue. It is a point of rules. Who submitted the list? I do not want to labour you a lot but I am then asked to say Hon Speaker, where is the list of those who apologised today. I am now forced to do that in terms of the rules and then we would want to know why they are not here. If Cabinet is so important then let it be for Parliament as well.
Things are happening and inflation is up yet the Minister of Finance is not here. Whilst these ministers are here they cannot control the purse because issues of Covid-19, for them to be properly tackled, the issue of resource must be there. The next thing is we will be referred to the Minister of Finance. We have to take this seriously Mr. Speaker Sir and I think we cannot continue like this. Since we opened this Ninth Parliament, they do not take us seriously. The President, in his wisdom, every Minister of a certain portfolio - if that is the case, he could have just appointed Hon Muchinguri –Kashiri to be the Minister of everything. It is in his wisdom that he realises the expertise which are within them. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think one of the duties of the Leader of Government business is to report to Parliament on issues that affect the working situation or modus operandi between Parliament and the Executive. The Hon. Minister did explain that Ministers are in
Cabinet and it is a very important institution as well. It is part of Government, so we cannot say because it is Wednesday today; therefore Cabinet should not take place. I think we have to have a balancing act here. That is why I said there is no excuse for the Deputy Minister of Health but for other ministers, the apology has been tendered and the other Ministers who did not have critical issues to proceed with in Cabinet have been released. I think we have a fair representation so far.
*HON. TOGAREPI: As is known by the country, tobacco farmers bring in foreign currency and they are in the top foreign currency earning category like mines and such other sectors. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance that at present, tobacco farmers are receiving 50% of their earnings in foreign currency which is a retention given by the Reserve Bank.
The agricultural inputs that they buy for use are pegged at the parallel market rate.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, may you go straight
to the question.
*HON. TOGAREPI: What measures have been put in place to assist tobacco farmers so that they are able to go back and grow tobacco in future in the next season.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): We are
giving 50% in foreign currency and 50 % in the local currency. Our tobacco farmers have been moaning that everything that they buy is pegged at the parallel market rate. They want that issue to be resolved. We have encountered the same problem with the miners and we were discussing with the various groups. As we speak, some of our farmers have said that they may not bring in their produce.
As of yesterday, we had raised US$70 million in terms of sales which is 40% of what we were expecting. As Treasury, we are in negotiations with them since last week so that we can come to an amicable agreement that leads to a win-win situation between the farmer and the Government so that our farmers are able to go back and do their farming.
*HON. KWARAMBA: I am happy with the question that has been asked by the Chief Whip. I would want to supplement his question and say that this does not only affect tobacco farmers but maize farmers too. In the communal lands, there are problems. Farmers were given command assistance and there are conmen who are going round buying maize using forex.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Please ask your supplementary question.
*HON. KWARAMBA: Maize farmers are also suffering from the same effects as tobacco farmers because their produce has a foreign currency component. Are there any measures that are going to be put in place so that maize farmers are also paid in foreign currency?
*HON. CHIDUWA: As Treasury, we are well ahead in encouraging our farmers so that they grow and develop. We have $6.2 billion that was put aside by Government to encourage our farmers so that they can continue farming. In terms of paying maize farmers, we have said that they should not spend more than seven days without receiving their money.
You can find out from farmers that you know that all those that delivered their grain were paid within seven days. We have a float of $200 million which is at the Grain Marketing Board to ensure that once a farmer has delivered maize, they instantly get paid so that they can buy the inputs. In terms of conmen...
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I urge you to stick to one language. Its either you stick to English or vernacular and this will show that we are proud of our mother tongue. As a teacher, I do not like people who switch from one language to another.
Secondly, Hon. Deputy Minister; the question says, farmers that are also growing maize are complaining that they would want to be paid in foreign currency. What is your response?
*HON. CHIDUWA: We are currently paying $12 358 per tonne.
*HON. KWARAMBA: My question has not been answered.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Minister, please answer the question properly. Are you ever going to consider paying maize farmers in foreign currency as is the case with the tobacco farmers?
*HON. CHIDUWA: As of now, we are paying the amount that
I have stated. We have not looked at paying them in foreign currency. Tobacco farmers are being paid in foreign currency because tobacco is sold out of the country and it earns foreign currency.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Because of the systems, we only allow two supplementary questions
*HON. K. PARADZA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question is with regards to maize farmers that are under the command scheme. All the money that they are being paid is being taken over by CBZ because of interest rates. Those that sell inputs such as pesticides and herbicides are charging their monies using the black market rates in repayment. So the farmers have not earned anything. The majority of their earnings have gone back to paying CBZ.
HON. CHIDUWA: The Hon. Member’s supplementary
question is that those that have given loans to our farmers now want to recoup what they have invested in the farming season. As a Government, it appears that it is the parallel market that they are using but as Government, we have an official rate. As Treasury, what we are simply doing is working to ensure that our exchange rate in terms of the exchange rate of our currency should improve, but we are unable to then go into the agreements that they made with these farmers because they will be in agreement with what they would have entered into. They may be unable to control that.
HON. T. MLISWA: A point of clarification Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am afraid we cannot have more than two supplementary questions.
HON. T. MLISWA: I just seek clarity from the Deputy
Minister of Finance.
THE HON. SPEAKER: A point of clarity happens only when there is a Ministerial Statement. In this case, we cannot allow a point of clarity.
HON. MADHUKU: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
My question is directed to the Minister of Information
Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services or the Leader of the House. What is Government policy on ICT infrastructural development and network provision to every corner of Zimbabwe as well as Government regulatory policy on internet data charges by service providers? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND
COURIER SERVICES (HON. PHUTI): I would like to thank the
Hon. Member for raising the question. I take it that the question is in two parts. The first part relates to the issue of ICT infrastructural development as well as provisions of network across the country.
I would like to point out that there is a question in the Order Paper that was raised in the form of writing which I thought would be satisfied by that same answer, but with your permission, I can go on to explain that the ICT infrastructure framework of infrastructure sharing has taken shape. It means that the three mobile operators currently are going to share initially 50 towers, that is the three mobile operators that you know. However, the Universal Service Fund, through the regulator POTRAZ, has started construction of extra towers that have been shared amongst the three operators. The first one has since been done and is working as I speak now in Mt Darwin.
The second part of the question is with regards to data and charges. Pertinent as this question is, I would like to ask for your permission, Mr. Speaker Sir, to ask the regulator through our Ministry to compile a comprehensive report on this issue as I admit that it is an issue of concern especially these trying times of this pandemic. So allow me to say that we will bring a report on the issue of the data charges. I thank you.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. Mr. Speaker, schools are set to reopen for ZIMSEC for those who are writing ZIMSEC examinations. In Glen View, I am facing a challenge where - I am guessing the country at large schools are saying they are not even prepared to intake those students who are coming to write the ZIMSEC examinations. The Grade 7 exam classes are saying they do not have masks, some are underprivileged to even afford a single mask Mr. Speaker. My question to the Minister is - how prepared are these schools to reopen and receive students for them to come and undertake those examinations? I think we need clarity on how they are going to roll out that process.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There are two ministers that relate to education. I will allow the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education and then of Higher and Tertiary Education.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very
much Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you for the question. In terms of preparations for the opening of ZIMSEC examinations, work has been done on giving the guidelines on the nature of preparations which are required for that purpose. We have also submitted a budget to Treasury so that we could be assisted.
However, we are currently working on how we are going to share between the Ministry, the parents and the schools in terms of the provisions of sanitisers, face masks and so on so that our schools can conduct the examinations. A lot of schools are already coming to us to say they are ready to conduct those examinations but we are aware that schools are differently resourced. In particular, the private schools are ready but the public schools need to be assisted and we are currently working on the matrix and waiting for finance to assist.
Thank you.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Mr. Speaker, whilst maybe private schools are ready, those are more privileged people. However, in Glenview - and I can also imagine in rural areas, I cannot imagine someone affording even a mask and even to say sanitiser, that is another story. Right now if you go to some public offices in high density areas, they do not even observe social distancing, no mask and there is nothing. I went around my Constituency Mr. Speaker and the majority said that they are not ready to take in students at the moment. I personally committed to provide some masks for Grade 7 pupils because they do not have anywhere to start. That is where I say I need clarity to say, are you really sure that those schools are ready?
HON. E. MOYO: Yes, we are determined to make sure that schools conduct examinations. Government is going to provide the bulk of what we require to be prepared for those examinations. We are currently launching in different provinces our readiness plans. Last week we were in Matebeleland North and today the Minister and the Permanent Secretary are in Manicaland where we are launching that programme and schools are producing a lot of these sanitisers and face masks. We think by the time examinations start, we shall be ready. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY:
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon.
Speaker. I wish to thank the Hon. Member for asking Primary and Secondary and Higher Education but I will complement the answer.
Hon. Speaker, we are cognisant of the negative effects of COVID 19. In responding to it, we do it in a very measured way. What we have decided to do after His Excellency, the President’s statement that we shall be opening gradually; starting with the examination years, what we have done is, we have met all the universities and discussed about their preparedness plans. The consensus was starting from the first week of June - which is next week, the universities which are ready will start with the final year students, the rest of the students are going to go online.
From February, when we saw this pandemic happening in China, we started developing online materials. The only problem that we were going to face was the internet charges and so on. However, we have since approached private and telecommunication companies who have written to us to say, they are willing to support this programme by subsidizing the data to the students. Students will actually access the websites for free. We are going to take it in our stride. What that basically means is that by July, we expect all the final year students to have written, and the rest - from first year to third year will come for two weeks for their exams but they will be rotating so that we do not crowd our students at the universities.
In terms of sanitisers and everything, I think the universities as you might have leant Hon. Member, have produced the bulk of the sanitisers that are needed in this country. They have also produced the bulk of masks, even the one I am putting on, for the whole country – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So there is capability to do so but we will be very careful and we will be assessing as we go. If things are impossible, we will not push because education is done by living people, so life first – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We believe that whilst we go in and implement the plans that we have here, reality on the ground will tell us whether we can continue or we have to adjust. This is the way we are going to do it Hon. Speaker but we expect that by end of August, we would have cleared the first semester which normally is supposed to end by end of May. June and July and August are normally vacation, if we manage, which we believe we can, to have the semester end by August, we would have lost nothing in terms of the year.
Education as we know it, the way it is going to be delivered is going to change completely. We are now going for blended learning, which is a mixture of e-learning and face to face in order to make sure that we continue giving the students the rights that are guaranteed in the Constitution of promoting access to higher and tertiary education.
I thank you.
*HON. MAKONYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is what is going to happen to the markers who will attend to these examinations. How will they be protected? Are these papers going to be sanitised before they are marked since we understand that COVID 19 spreads by merely touching the surface? Thank you.
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
also would like to appreciate the question. All the employees of our tertiary institutions are supposed to be very hygienic. This is because of the sanitisers that they receive. So all those who handle any material that is used for these examinations are supposed to use gloves as well as alcohol based sanitisers. Like I said, I agree that we are not 100% intelligent but we have to analyse whether our measures are working efficiently. If they are not, we will panel beat as we go.
HON. A. MPOFU: I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for Higher and Tertiary Education for the preparations that they are making. However, I would like to ask what kind of assurance we can get from the Ministry on the issue of access, particularly for rural students. It is well talked of that there are digital technologies, internet and everything. Can he give us some kind of assurance on what extend the rural children will not be prejudiced. I thank you.
HON. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Mpofu for that question. The issue of access, because we cannot be talking to ourselves, we have to talk to the students. The issue of access is an issue that has been troubling us and we started working on it. As I said, in February, as this problem was coming, we sat with the universities and said, if it comes – which is probable to the closure of our universities and colleges, what will we do. So, they came up with solutions - the first one was let us develop online material and so forth, and we did that but then we said how will our students access. The most difficult issue was the data costs because we knew the costs can be very prohibitive. So we wrote to all the operators of this country and said we are going to have problems here, as operators what are you going to do to assist. What is very heartening is that by February we were working with a company called Liquid Telecom and they provided free internet for all our 48 higher and tertiary education institutions which is actually a very good thing.
So access was addressed that way, but the access that we are talking about is the access related to network coverage. Apparently, all our higher and tertiary education institutions are in urban setting somehow, which we have to address of course but there is a higher and tertiary education closer to you. We always say wherever you are there is a Higher and Tertiary Education Institution closer to you. That Higher and Tertiary Education Institution has an eduzone which is a free internet service for our students but that is far away.
Hon. Speaker in certain areas the network is there, so there is no problem. Not all areas have network, that is where you go for that point number B, where you go to your nearest institution to access the internet. You do not have to go into a building, this internet was put in the grounds so in terms of social distancing there, it becomes also easy. It is all over the grounds and we really want to thank that provider for doing this. In addition, we are going to be given data bundles in the new provision for all our students so that they are able to go and download and then go wherever they can go to do their work offline.
However Hon. Speaker, there is also an issue of whether everybody has a phone, laptop and everything. That one we are looking at it and everybody who is disadvantaged to the extent of not having that we will discuss that on an individual basis. What we are committed to do is giving our students an education come rain, come shine, we cannot be defeated by covid-19, we have to defeat it but in doing so, we shall not be careless. I thank you.
HON. MAVENYENGWA: My question is directed to the
Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Is the fixed exchange rate your Ministry announced working given the disparity between the parallel market rate and the official rate?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank Hon.
Speaker. What I want to say is the fixed exchange rate regime was introduced as a policy package within COVID-19. In terms of our projections, when we looked at the dynamics of what was going to happen during the COVID period we realise that we needed certainty.
That certainty in terms of the variation that was happening in the foreign currency market we decided to say we should have a fixed exchange rate. Looking at what is happening in the market at the moment, we have a high disparity that is there. It is between the fixed exchange rate which is at 1:25 and the alternative market which as of two days ago was close to 1:80 but then had gone down I think to 1:60. So, in the short to medium term, what I can say is our position with regards to the fixed exchange rate was only within the time for COVID but post COVID surely we cannot continue with a fixed exchange rate regime because the fixed exchange rate at the moment you can see that few people are using it.
Hon. Speaker, going forward, looking at the fundamentals and what is happening in the market in terms of production and what is going to be submitted by the stakeholders – obviously, we are going to move away from the fixed exchange regime. Hon. Speaker, probably we will adopt a Crawling peg or a managed float going forward. I would say at the moment, the fixed exchange rate regime is what is there but going forward, there is going to be some changes.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would
like to get clarification from the Deputy Minister on the duration that he is making reference to on the COVID period, given the position that it is an indeterminate situation we are in. Would it not be more prudent to just let the system relate to the market dynamic, because COVID does not have a fixed timeframe? Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. You
said clarity is referred to Ministerial Statement. He wants clarity, I do follow proceedings.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Well, it is a supplementary question,
there is a difference.
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. What is guiding
us are the COVID levels that we are getting from the Ministry of Health and Child Care. In terms of the timeframe to say when are we going to be reaching that time when we say we have reached the end of COVID, it is not necessarily the end of COVID, but when we say business is back to normal. What I can say is within Treasury, we have been discussing to say how long is the COVID pandemic going to last. So we are consulting and we may not necessarily reach the end to say we should change policy after COVID. We are working on it because we have seen that given what is happening in the market, there is need for us to adopt a system which is flexible and closer to what is being determined by the market.
*HON. MATANGIRA: My follow up question is that is the
Minister of Finance also saying that it is the grass that suffers if the two elephants are fighting especially the economy. If we were to go and buy irrigation equipment for people who want to grow wheat, the parity of exchange rate is 75 to 80 and that is not attainable. The prices that we have in the agricultural sector as a nation has been pegged in the value of the US$. Are we making headway Hon. Minister when things are so expensive, unaffordable and are available? Everything is now upside down. We are being crippled so to speak. Thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINSTER OF FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you
Hon. Speaker. It is true that prices are going up. The prices are going up because of the parallel market exchange rate which is being used in the setting up of prices in the shops. As a Ministry, what we have done at the moment is to investigate or find out what makes our currency to be stronger. Our currency can only be strong if our industries are operational. Our currency can be strong if we are exporting and earning foreign currency. Currently, there are some people that are causing the runaway inflation. What they do in the parallel market is illegal and the illegal activities can be stopped by you and me.
We see people that are transacting foreign currency on the streets and the reason why people go to the streets is because of you and me. So, what we are doing at the moment is to conduct investigations and find out how the parallel market operators are doing it. That is why you find that some banks and eco-cash money transfers who are involved in the parallel market, measures have been taken against them and the rate has since fallen from RTGS$80 to the US$ to RTGS$50 to the US$. We are seeing that prices are going up but we are still working to ensure that we bring it under control.
Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question
is directed to the Vice Chairperson of the National Task Force on COVID-19. There are quarantine centres which were established but are not working. The first case in Norton, of COVID-19 positive was a result of somebody who came from Cape Town, put in a quarantine centre, was tested and before the results were out, they were released. What role are quarantine centres playing? With schools opening, what have you done as the National Task Force to protect the frontline staffers, the teachers and the headmasters? Are we going to have them tested before they conduct classes? Are the pupils coming from their homes going to be tested again? If so, do you have enough test kits to test the entire number that will go to school – the teachers, the headmasters and pupils to safeguard the health of these young people who are the future of tomorrow? Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Before the Hon. Minister answers, I
would want to say, the wearing of the face masks is mandatory in terms of the law and the masks must cover your nose and mouth and not your mouth only. If you leave your nose uncovered, according to the medical specialists, you transfer the droplets coming from your mouth and you may infect others innocently. So let us cover our noses and mouths together.
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS
(HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
want to thank Hon. Mliswa for his two very important questions. The first question has to do with some quarantine centres that are not working well. We have around the country in all provinces quite a number of these quarantine centres. Rightly so, some established secondary schools, universities and other centres that were identified; some even at Polytechnics and others have been operating very well. This is because the numbers that we were expecting at the beginning were minimal. I am sure through the briefings that we have been issuing out through our communication pillar, we have been receiving an influx of our own Zimbabwean returnees from South Africa and also Botswana without any prior arrangements with our own
Government, hence they have put a lot of pressure on our systems.
At times we have found ourselves incapacitated and I must say that because of that problem, the responsible Minister of Labour and Social Welfare through our systems has had to identify additional centres to make sure that some of those challenges are addressed. I must say within the next week we are expecting 3 000 returnees, not just from our neighbouring countries but beyond. We continue to have these problems but yes, challenges are here and there and one such is at the Polytechnic. I am sure that the one that he raises was adequately addressed but we have had some challenges. The Task Force is really up to that responsibility bestowed on it.
The second issue has to do with the opening of schools since most of these quarantine centres were based at secondary schools. We are aware that with the relaxation of Level 2, where the President made an announcement after recommendations from the two Ministers of Education, we will not make recommendations where we have not done enough research in terms of where we would want to place our returnees. I must say churches have come forward pledging their full support and we are going to move a number of these returnees into some of these centres. We have had quite a number of stakeholders whom we are working with and I want to assure the Hon.
Minister that the Ministers of Education…
THE HON. SPEAKER: You want to assure the Hon.
Member. He is not yet a Minister – [HON. T. MLISWA: I receive.]
– [Laughter.] –
HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI: I want to assure the Hon.
Member that your teams are working 24/7 to make sure that there is adequate preparedness for schools to operate normally and also to make sure that we are ready to take up those returnees as they come
The last one which is the third - I had overlooked that one, is whether there is enough PPE to make sure that we prevent more infections, vis-à-vis those that will be teaching during the opening up to allow students to undertake their exams. Yes, we are falling short in other areas but I want to thank the Ministry of Education; both Ministers. You know very well that universities have taken a leading role to produce enough PPEs in terms of masks and sanitisers and ensuring that they are adequately resourced.
Let me also assure the Hon. Member that the primary and secondary school Ministry has already gone on another exercise to make sure that schools, through their own sawing clubs embark on this exercise to make sure that teachers and students are also protected. Test kits as he is pointing out, remain of concern because there is competition internationally for this very important task. I must assure again the Hon. Member, that Government has gone all out to make sure that these test kits are available, particularly in these red spots. So, we do have some teams that are visiting all the respective institutions to evaluate the preparedness of these schools. In some cases, yes we will be able to provide and others not but we are trying. We are using every opportunity to ensure that these PPEs are provided. Prevention is a priority of our taskforce. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Let me applaud the Hon. Minister for her responses which were honest. She said ‘we are incapacitated’, which means we cannot in ordinary sense. So why do we continue if we cannot? We also talk about test kits not being enough. The issue is not about the PPE but is about testing the front line staff so that they are not a risk to the students. On average, how many teachers or headmasters are expected to be in that position? We prioritise them.
We hear we received over 200 test…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Supplementary question!
HON. T. MLISWA: My supplementary question Mr. Speaker
Sir is, her answers fall short of the desired result to achieve this with resources. There are no resources. Why do we continue when there are no resources? Credit goes to the schools. I was at one today where the schools in Chegutu have done well with PPEs. The Chinhoyi University of Technology has done well but we do have incapacitation. You were a headmaster, a famous English teacher; when incapacitation is brought up, it means we cannot. So why are we continuing risking people’s lives?
HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI: Thank you Hon. Speaker.
The issue that he raises is very key to our success as he is rightly pointing out because we realise that this facility of testing is not readily available internationally. Zimbabwe has no capacity to produce these test kits. As I have indicated earlier on, that there is serious competition internationally, wherever we are getting this and wherever we can purchase, from we are making every effort to make sure that they are available.
However, His Excellency, after engaging all the stakeholders – after a Statutory Instrument was put in place, there is a second one as a follow up to the earlier one which required testing as a key requirement, came up with four key areas. The first one would be temperature testing where a school is required to have a thermometer. The second one is the use of sanitisers, the third is social distancing and the last one is washing of hands. We have been educating our nation to make sure that they are aware of these four key requirements but the issue of testing remains a necessity where possible to make sure that we will not leave any stone unturned. With these four components, we are sure that if well practiced and put in place, it will go a long way to prevent our people from being infected. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very
much Mr. Speaker. Three weeks ago, we were hit as a nation with an alleged abduction of three females, one being a Member of
Parliament. My question to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage is that three weeks down the line, we have not had a full report on what exactly happened. Could he please explain to us why we have a delay in getting the results of what happened? Furthermore, on what day or date will he be promising us that the nation will be fully addressed on what exactly happened around that alleged abduction?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you very
much Hon. Speaker. The Hon. Member has raised a very important issue pertaining to the protection and sanctity of life of the citizens of Zimbabwe, particularly, what the Hon. Member has raised with regards to the allegations of abductions of three citizens.
Investigations are still underway because allegations have been raised but however, it is critical that the police do extensive investigations to establish exactly what happened. They are still mere allegations and when the police are through with their investigations, definitely the nation will be informed of what exactly happened. If there is any Member who has information which will assist the police in their investigations, they are welcome. I want to assure the Hon. Member and this august House that the police are doing everything within their power to establish the truth. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: For a long time, the First Republic was known for violating people’s rights. The second Republic, the
President is a reformist, is a democrat and it is incumbent upon the
Ministry of Home Affairs to even bring up even reports of Itai
Dzamara so that these things come to a completion once and for all. This country is not moving anywhere internationally because of these issues. The police have the manpower to investigate anybody at any time when they feel like it. When it is time to arrest us, they have resources, when it is time to now go for a case which is important for this country, which is damaging the reputation of this country; they then say it will take time.
So, when are you then going to be an efficient police? If the police are not efficient, the Commissioner General must go because he commands that. We need people in office who are able to deliver not to just appease and patronize. So, what are they doing to remove the Commissioner General who is failing to get his team to investigate on these issues?
HON. MADIRO: The Hon. Members’ supplementary question
is that the police seem to be inefficient according to his view. It is not the intention of the Government to have an inefficient police force. I want to assure the Hon. Member and the Members here that our police, as compared to other nations, are in the top class. In actual fact, an effective and efficient police is dependent on the community in terms of provision of information because such occurrences happen within the community and the citizens will have information. If the information is not provided, the police will be very ineffective. So, we are calling upon those who have information, whether it is pertaining to Dzamara or the recent allegations, that they provide such information.
Let me also say that it is not right to witch-hunt and for the police to depend on information which is not adequate to establish a crime or what would have happened. So it is important that the Community work together with this police to ensure that we have a success rate.
With regards to corruption which the Hon. Member is raising among some Members of the police force, yes, there maybe a few bad apples who indulge in corrupt activities. It is not Government policy to ignore and I want to emphasise that His Excellency, the President and his Government have in many fora pronounced the abhorrence of any corrupt activities. Anyone who is seen to be indulging in such practices will definitely be brought to book. So, Hon. Speaker, we take note of the concerns raised by the Hon. Member in terms of success rate but I want to submit that our police force is one of the best in the region. I thank you.
*HON TEKESHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
supplementary is to enquire as to whether there is no time frame, for instance on the Dzamara case which has been going on for years. Why is there no time frame? Five years the person has been missing, there is no response. I am not condoning that a person went missing; a police officer went missing a single day in Glenview and in a single day, 20 people were arrested and three were convicted. The Court asked you to give a response but to date, none has been received. Do you look at a person’s background before you investigate the case?
Do you know that everyone is equally covered by the laws of Zimbabwe? I thank you.
HON. MADIRO: In terms of the issue of the timeframe that has been asked; the timeframe that you are talking about when an offence has been committed or an incident has happened, when the police then say that they have arrested the accused person, it is our wish but those who do that would have committed offences and are quickly apprehended.
People cannot just be arrested willy nilly without evidence lest we run into the risk of being called a police state. The Court of law requires sufficient evidence. The example which has been given, the Dzamara case, I want to believe that the Minster of Home Affairs came here on several occasions and has given response in terms of how far they have gone in the investigation of Dzamara case. We do have a service charter that lays out what is expected to be done when an offence has been committed and when it should be concluded.
However, once we had talked about a particular case, then it depends with the evidence that would have been found and there will obviously be a suspect who could be arrested. If there is no sufficient evidence, it is not possible that the police can arrest anyone. That is why you then hear when such cases are presented before the courts, the presiding magistrates or judges will then acquit the suspect because the police will not have done their duty properly. Police are supposed to come up with strenuous investigations so that they find adequate evidence to present before the law. I thank you.
*HON. MAKONYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, may I be
allowed to lower my mask. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What measures have you put in place to people that used to earn their living from vending before the advent of Covid-19 because at the moment, they are unable to execute their duties to raise money so that they can look after their families. I am talking about people that used to work in flea markets, they are now closed and are seated at home.
At one time, they were asked to submit their mobile numbers with a view to some funds being transferred in their phones. We are now being asked what has become of the money that people were supposed to receive so that they can sustain themselves. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you for
the question Hon. Member. We have a programme that the Hon Member has made reference to that we put in place to ensure that we assist those vulnerable members that lost their livelihood because of Covid-19. We are envisaging to assist about one million people. We requested that the information be complied as has been said by the Hon Member. The information is compiled depending on their sector or groups such as cross border traders and other various groups.
At the moment, we now have 201 000 names that are registered.
Last week, we disbursed money through the mobile phones for about 100 000 people. This week, we anticipate that another 100 000 will have received that money. We were disbursing ZW$180 per individual for the month of May. Next month, we are disbursing ZW$300 per person. We already have this money. The majority of those that have registered will soon receive the money. Should there be persons that have not registered they should go to the Ministry of Social Welfare or Local Government authorities in their respective areas as well as to the Ministry of Small to Medium Enterprises because we want that number to grow so that we can help our citizens that lost their livelihood as a result of this pandemic.
I want this august House to know that as we speak we now have ZW$8bn that has been promised to be disbursed to us by the Ministry of Finance so that we continue to assist the people of Zimbabwe. That amount is going to be targeted to these people as well as to ensure that there is food for those that are in rural and urban settlements. I thank you.
*HON MAKONYA: My supplementary question is that the $180 that you are disbursing, is it a once off payment or it will continue per month until the disease is contained? The $180 cannot sustain a person who has a family. It cannot buy a 5kg pack of mealie meal. How is that person going to live? If you look at our housemaids, they are earning $1000 per month. If you give $180 to a person who needs to pay rent and send children to school, that person will not survive. Please, I implore you to look into that issue. I thank you
*HON. PROF MAVIMA: I said during the first month, we disbursed $180 per person and that was the amount that was being given to those that were receiving assistance from the Department of
Social Welfare. This amount was reviewed upwards in February. With effect from next month, that is June, those people will be receiving $300 per month. I have said that we have $8 billion that has been allocated to us. We are going to review this figure to see if it would be sufficient up until we get to January with our programmes and we are able to do it. We will also be taking into consideration the rise in prices.
We also want this august House to note that at the moment, the Government has a programme where roller meal will be sold at a subsidised price of $70 only – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – well I hear some disgruntlement, but it depends on the availability of the mealie-meal. The Cabinet meeting held today was to look into the issue so as to ensure that the $70 mealie-meal reaches everyone in the country. There is a programme that there be maize meal for $70 and they are given $300 that they can use to buy other things that would sustain them. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: May I apologise that at the beginning,
I indicated that I had not received apologies. Apparently the apologies were under my other folder.
The apologies that we received from some Hon. Ministers include Hon. D. Marapira, Minister of State in Vice President
Mohadi’s office, Hon. M. Chombo; Deputy Minister of Local
Government and Public Works and Hon. Modi, Deputy Minister of
Industry and Commerce
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much for that list but there are other Ministers who are not here and I am not sure if Cabinet is still on. You had given them the leeway that they were at Cabinet and a few mininisters had been picked to come. If Cabinet is still on then I withdraw but if it is not on, then we would need answers.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Cabinet is still on and accordingly you may withdraw your statement.
HON. T. MLISWA: I therefore withdraw my statement.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The full list of all who have tendered their apology will appear on the Order Paper tomorrow.
*HON. MUTAMBISI: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What is Government’s policy with regards to civil servants such as nurses and teachers that they can access subsidised mealie-meal in the communal lands because at the moment people from the rural areas cannot access the towns because there is no transport?
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): I earlier on said
that a Cabinet meeting took place today and there was debate on how best that subsidised mealie-meal can be accessed in sufficient quantities to reach the relevant people and how it can be distributed throughout the country for easier access so that all people in those areas can easily buy the mealie-meal. This exercise is being lead by the Ministry of Agriculture and the logistics are now at an advanced stage. Parliament is aware that there is a company called Silo Foods into the people with various ailments because they do not have sufficient food. These susceptible people are on the social welfare programme
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. The reality of the matter in the country is that everybody is vulnerable now, that is the truth. Unless the Minister has got new statistics which he must give us but with the way the economy is, everyone is vulnerable. So we must address everyone and the Minister must also tell us if we have enough maize because we continue to bark. We could be barking up the wrong tree. Do we have enough maize to supply the whole country? If we do not have enough maize he must say we do not have enough maize. Hazvidi kunyepa. Munhu wese anenzara kumamisha uko
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Madam Speaker, I do not believe
that I should respond to a point of order. I would want to respond to the question that has been posed by the Member of Parliament -
[HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, you are
bringing in a new question. Please, take you seat. Let the Minister respond.
* HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was
just saying that the majority of people that live with various ailments including HIV are on our social welfare programmes where they are allocated twice. There are some funds that are disbursed to them twice so that they maintain their health. Those that are in the communal lands are given 50kg of maize per household.
There are two programmes. The first one is issued by the
Department of Social Welfare. We are being assisted by the World Food Programme using various organizations and 7.6 million were being assisted in this country by these two programmes. These two programmes are still ongoing despite the advent of Covid-19. The people from World Food Programme will stop their programmes in May and June. We are not stopping these programmes this year.
They will continue with their programmes.
In urban centres people were registered. Those that were registered include those that have lost their livelihood because of the pandemic and those that are on the social welfare programme, we now have about 250 000 people. These are the people that are receiving the funds that I earlier on made reference to. In the majority of cases people with these ailments are also found amongst the persons I have mentioned. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
ROLL-OUT OF THE URBAN FOOD AID PROGRAMME
- HON. MNANGAGWA asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to explain when the roll out of the urban food aid programme would commence and to state what system the Ministry intends to use to ensure transparency and that the aid gets to the intended beneficiaries.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Hon. Speaker, I
would like to inform this House that the distribution of food aid in urban areas has already commenced. The actual distribution started with Harare and Bulawayo. At the moment, 12 269 households are being assisted with food aid in Harare Province and 12 968 are being assisted in Bulawayo.
As you may be aware, the urban vulnerability assessment estimates that a total of 400 000 households will be food insecure during the 2019/2020 season. The Ministry is working with development partners to ensure that no one will die of hunger during this drought season. World Food Programme has piloted a cash-based transfer in Epworth whereby the urban beneficiaries are receiving assistance through mobile transfer so as to enable them to access food.
The cash-based modality has been noted to be very effective and efficient in urban areas as the targeted beneficiaries receive their allowances through mobile platforms, thereby reducing the risk of corruption. The World Food Programme has now extended the programme to the following districts; Buhera, Gokwe North, Mudzi, Hwange, Nkai, Kariba and Norton. The programme is anticipated to reach 100 000 individuals in urban areas. Government, through the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare is in the process of registering beneficiaries in other urban areas and in kind distribution will commence as soon as more grain has been availed for the drought relief programme. In actual fact Hon. Speaker, we have now registered 50 000 households in urban areas and the programme has now migrated to cash transfers for all the urban areas. I thank you.
MEASURES TO REDRESS EXORBITANT AMOUNTS
CHARGED TO TRANSPORT GRAIN MAIZE FROM GMB TO
DISTRIBUTION POINTS
- HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to explain to the House the measures the Ministry has put in place to redress the exorbitant amounts being charged to transport grain maize from the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) to the distribution points considering that the fifteen dollars transport per bag is not affordable to the vulnerable members of the community.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you
Madam Speaker. Hon. Speaker, following the incessant increase of transport costs for grain distribution to vulnerable households, the
Ministry has engaged the services of the District Development Fund
(DDF) and the Zimbabwe National Army (ZNA). Both DDF and
ZNA will assist in the transportation of grain from the respective
GMB depots to the grain distribution points. We have gone further Hon. Speaker, to also give each district some money to engage private transporters so that the recipients do not pay for the transportation of the maize grain that they receive through social welfare. Thank you
Hon. Speaker.
RATIONALE OF REBAGGING MAIZE AND GRAIN FROM THE
GMB
- HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to explain to the House the rationale of re-bagging maize and grain from the Grain Marketing Board, which is currently being done at ward level in the Silobela Constituency and to elaborate on any security on safeguard measures that have been put in place to protect the vulnerable households who have to contend with deprivation of 10kgs which is removed from each bag culminating in about three tonnes being removed from six hundred bags which is then shared among the councilors and the distribution committee.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon.
Speaker. Hon. Speaker, the re-bagging of maize is solely the responsibility of the GMB. It is against the drought relief policy to re-bag maize at community level, distribution points or to take some of the grain meant for beneficiaries by any person who is not entitled to such. In the occurence of such cases, a report should be made. At all distribution points, a help/zvichemo/iskalazo desk is available for any aggrieved beneficiary or community member to lodge their complaints. Grievances can also be escalated to the District Drought Relief Committee or the Provincial Drought Relief Committee or even at the national level.
The Ministry has taken note of the re-bagging of maize in Silobela Constituency and I would like to assure Hon. Members that investigations will be made and appropriate action will be taken thereafter to correct this malpractice.
PLANS TO PAY TRANSPORTATION COSTS FOR MAIZE TO
THE UNDERPRIVILEGED IN MWENEZI EAST
CONSTITUENCY
- HON. OMAR asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House of the Ministry’s plans to pay all transportation costs for maize to the underprivileged in Mwenezi East Constituency instead of having them to pay part payments as they are already reeling under economic hardships.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon.
Speaker. The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare has engaged DDF and ZNA to transport grain from the GMB to the distribution points. In addition, with allocations coming from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, we have also provided transportation funds to all the districts in order to ensure that beneficiaries do not pay for the help that they receive from the
Government. The Ministry will look into the issues specifically from Mwenezi and I want to assure you that no one will go hungry this drought season because they cannot pay for the transportation of their grain.
PLANS TO ENSURE THE DISABLED GET PENSION THROUGH
MOBILE PLATFORMS
- HON. S. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House of the Ministry’s plans to ensure that people living with disabilities who get their pensions through mobile platforms are not cheated by unscrupulous dealers who charge an extra fee?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PRO. MAVIMA): May I take this
opportunity Hon. Speaker, to inform the House that the Ministry is encouraging persons with disabilities and other representatives to transact using legally registered entities to avoid being cheated by unscrupulous dealers and being charged extra fees than that which is necessary. Persons with visual impairments are being encouraged to appoint a trusted representative to receive money on their behalf. The same also applies to those with severe disabilities such as cerebral palsy which usually affects the brain and speech making transaction very difficult.
ZUPCO BUS PROGRAMME FOR SILOBELA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Local
Government and Public Works to inform the House when Silobela
Constituency is expected to benefit from the Zimbabwe United
Passenger Company (ZUPCO) buses programme in view of the fact that the current bus fares charged by the conventional buses one way is beyond the reach of many members of the travelling public in Silobela.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker
Ma’am, ZUPCO is doing a rebuilding capacity and it will definitely consider Silobela Constituency and other areas once the next batch of buses is received.
MEASURES TO ENSURE ALL RESIDENTS PAY UTILITY
BILLS
- HON. TSUURA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House on measures being taken by the Ministry to ensure that all residents pay rates, levies and water bills.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO: Madam. Speaker
Ma’am, local authorities do consult on all levels of the budgeting cycle so that they agree with clients on levels of rates, levies and tariffs to be paid by residents. Consultations instill inclusivity and ownership of the process and outcomes which motivate compliance and willingness of residents to pay.
The Government encourages local authorities to embark on constant engagements with ratepayers and residents associations on the need to honour their financial obligations and dues to council for improved service delivery. Reciprocally, local authorities should always deliver quality services to minimise public complaints which may cause resistance and non-committal to payment of rates, water bills and charges.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, summarily local authorities should provide improved services in the areas of water and sanitation, roads, public safety, public lighting and social amenities to entice residents to pay the rates.
MOVEMENT OF OFFICES FROM MHANGURA TO LION’S DEN
- HON. MASANGO asked the Minister of Local
Government and Public Works to explain why Makonde Rural
District Council moved their offices from Mhangura to Lions Den.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Mhangura is still a
sub office of Makonde Rural District Council. Council has staff at this office serving the needs of residents and other stakeholders residing in that area. The local authority has never relocated the sub office and has no intention to do so. Furthermore, some council meetings are being held at Mhangura sub office where there is a spacious boardroom.
OBLIGATIONS BY MINING COMPANIES OPERATING IN
PARTICULAR JURISDICTIONS TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS
REHABILITATION OF ROADS
- HON. NKANI asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to explain the Government policy on obligations by mining companies operating in particular jurisdictions to contribute towards rehabilitation of roads that they use and the infrastructural developments.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Currently, there are no provisions in the Mines and Minerals Act to enforce mining companies to contribute towards the rehabilitation of roads that they use and infrastructure development. The Government, through the Environmental Management Act
(EMA) Act 13/2002 Chapter 20.27 requires companies to have Environmental Impact Assessments before the beginning of any project and also at the end of that project. EMA requires mining companies to have an Environmental Impact Assessment done before the beginning of any mining project. Rural District Councils do charge a levy on all mining production which is meant to cater for, amongst other things, infrastructural requirements. Government is putting in place mechanisms to ensure that all mining titles can only be renewed after payment of RDC levies.
SECURING OF AN INVESTOR FOR SIWALE METHANE GAS
PROJECT IN LUPANE
- HON. M. NKOMO asked the Minister of Mines and
Mining Development to explain progress that has been made so far in securing an investor for the Siwale Methane Gas Project in Lupane as this will go a long way towards solving the country’s energy challenges.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): Currently, there is a
prospective investor for the Siwale Methane Gas Project. The external investor has secured project funding facility for a 15 MW Pilot Power Production Project from Coal Bed Methane Gas. Production is scheduled to start by July 2020. Phase 2 will scale up the project to 200 MW by July 2023 and Phase 3 will scale up the project to 1000 MW by December, 2027.
CONSTRUCTION OF PUBLIC TOILETS AT CHEBANGA
VILLAGE IN MHANGURA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. MASANGO asked the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities to explain when the Ministry is going to construct public toilets at Chebanga village in Mhangura constituency.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING
AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. SIMBANEGAVI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. Initially, the Ministry of National Housing does not provide public toilets at village level. Inasmuch as it is mandated to provide social amenities for both urban and rural communities, it is not mandated to provide public toilets in village set ups. We would encourage the Hon. Member to look into facilitating blair toilets and other forms of ablutions within the communities by the villagers as they are constructing their own houses.
However, if the Hon. Member is referring to community wash rooms, those can be constructed by the Ministry of National Housing at public stations such as bus stops in urban areas or railway stations.
Those are the ones that are provided by the Ministry. If the Hon.
Member feels that Chebanga village qualifies for something such as a community wash room or public toilets, that means we would have to visit Mhangura Constituency to see the actual set up at that particular village to see if that village qualifies for the social amenity that the
Hon. Member is asking about.
ISSUANCE OF RESIDENTIAL STANDS IN MHANGURA
- 31. MASANGO asked the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities to inform the House when residential stands will be issued in Mhangura to curb the accommodation challenges.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON.
SIMBANEGAVI): Since the Hon. Member is also asking specifically when residential stands will be issued in Mhangura, it is also relevant for the Hon. Member to indulge us as a Ministry to be able to visit Mhangura Constituency to get a grasp of what is really on the ground in that particular constituency with regard to residential stands, whether they are available in the local municipality or their RDC before we can specifically say this is the time that we will be issuing the residential stands. I thank you.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
LIST OF ELDERLY PEOPLE REGISTERED UNDER THE
SOCIAL WELFARE PROGRAMME IN KAMBUZUMA
CONSTITUENCY
- HON. MADZIMURE asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House the numbers of elderly people that are registered under the social welfare programme in Kambuzuma Constituency, Wards 14 and 16 and to disaggregate them by name, age, sex and residential addresses.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): May I kindly
take this opportunity to inform you that the entire Harare Metropolitan Province has a total of 12 269 households that are currently benefiting under the Food Deficit Mitigation Programme. However, the available data base is not disaggregated by ward. Currently, the data base for Warren Park/Kambuzuma has a total of 230 beneficiaries. A copy of the same is available Hon. Members.
FOOD RATIONS DISTRIBUTED TO SOCIAL WELFARE
QUARTERLY SINCE JANUARY 2019
- HON. MADZIMURE asked the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House what food rations have been distributed to those Social Welfare and quarterly since January 2019 to date.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): As you are
aware Hon. Members, grain distribution in Harare Province commenced in March 2019. In light of this, a total of 5 232.36 metric tonnes of grain has been distributed in Harare as at 30 November 2019. The drought relief policy stipulates that each household is entitled to a 50kg bag of maize per month. These same households are also receiving public assistance allowances on a monthly basis amounting to $100 per month. This allowance is meant to assist with relish and other basic requirements for the vulnerable people.
FOOD RATIONS ALLOCATED TO KAMBUZUMA
CONSTITUENCY
- HON. MADZIMURE asked the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House:
- what tonnage of food rations was allocated to Kambuzuma
Constituency, Wards 14 and 36 respectively?
- why beneficiaries were requested to pay for transportation of rations to the distribution centres, for example Kambuzuma Section 2 Hall.
- why presidential inputs beneficiaries in Ward 10 Zaka North Constituency did not receive the complete package of inputs, that is fertilizers.
- How many people benefited by names and quantities of inputs allocated to each of them.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): a) Hon.
Madzimure, please note that each eligible beneficiary receives a 50kg bag of grain per month per household.
- Members, please note that following the incessant increase of transport costs for grain distribution to vulnerable households, the Ministry has engaged the services of the District Development Fund and the Zimbabwe National Army. Both DDF and ZNA will assist in the transportation of grain from the respective
GMB Depots to the grain distribution point.
- Madzimure, kindly be advised that all Presidential
Input are the prerogative of the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. Therefore, may I kindly refer you to the responsible Ministry for further clarifications.
d) Grain Distribution Kambuzuma/Warren Park
NO. | SURNAME | NAME | I.D. NO. | ADDRESS |
1. | Amideo | Farisi | 63-532914P63 | 25 Kambuzuma |
2. | Bamuriwo | William | 63-040322N63 | 394 Kashangura
Kambuzuma 2 |
3. | Baulen | Nittah | 68-007061H68 | 2194 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
4. | Bonzo | Monica | 75-056792T50 | 1097 Box 48 Aspindale
Kambuzuma |
5. | Bopoto | Franscisa | 42-099345O48 | 935 Kambuzuma Section
3 |
6 | Bundu | Faresi | 63-486139X63 | 3029 Sec 6 Kambuzuma |
7. | Chaitezvi | Musekiwa | 63-238204C47 | 566 Kambuzuma |
8. | Chakodzonga | Moses | 63-095977H47 | 925 Sec 3 Kambuzuma |
9. | Chari | Evah | 63-677174T47 | 455 Kambuzuma |
10. | Charuma | Jakonda | 63-227056K38 | 12 Rukudzo Rd
Kambuzuma 3 |
11. | Chasi | Fransisca | 63-357821W15 | 329 Kambuzuma 2 |
12. | Chatambarara | Sammie | 63-319697G11 | 1387 Sect 4 Kambuzuma |
13. | Chawira | Venia | 80-038654L42 | 1029 Sect 3 Kambuzuma |
14. | Chibi | Gladys | 63-375939P04 | 1123 Sabi Rd
Kambuzuma |
15. | Chidzvondo | Anna | 75-446754Q47 | 172 Sect 1 Kambuzuma |
16. | Chigumira | Violet | 63-162792H25 | 2200 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
17. | Chigwida | Musafare | 63-33316Q25 | 36 Nyota Rd Kambuzuma
1 |
18. | Chikomba | Catherine | 18-000088M18 | 507 Sect 2 Kambuzuma |
19. | Chikumba | Joyce | 63-510838T25 | 25 Tsanga Rd
Kambuzuma |
20. | Chigore | Blessing | 71-052206H71 | 767 Sect 3 Kambuzuma |
21. | Chingore | Locadia | 63-448474G47 | 1841 Kambuzuma |
22. | Chingwaro | Agnes | 63-596329T71 | 1382 Kambuzuma |
23. | Chingwena | Jane | 48-043874B48 | 115 Kambuzuma |
24. | Chinowawa | Neddie | 63-635985X49 | 855 Kambuzuma |
25. | Chinyani | Nancy | 63-944399F05 | 751 Sect 3 Kambuzuma |
26. | Chinyura | Anna | 63-093927E25 | 100 Kambuzuma |
27. | Chipa | Lilian | 63-065174B13 | 99 Kambuzuma |
28. | Chipangura | Stella | 63-410907Y45 | 243 Av. Kambuzuma |
29. | Chipungu | Sparks | 73-871202S30 | 2397 Gwenzi Rd
Kambuzuma |
30. | Chirevo | Hamudi | 63-026118Z44 | 2328 Sect 6 Kambuzuma |
31. | Chirombe | Erinera | 68-552601N34 | 436 Kamb 2 |
32. | Chirumanzu | Joseph | 63-501461B27 | 1343 Kambuzuma |
33. | Chisango | Rilopher | 63-485655W32 | 1583 Chisango
Kambuzuma |
34. | Chitehwe | Tsitsi | 63-1235714A25 | 774 Sect 3 Kambuzuma |
35 | Chitiyo | Julia | 63-620879D42 | 9001 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
36 | Chiundiza | Lovemore | 63-760021V63 | 2095 Kambuzuma |
37 | Chiwanga | Martha | 63-286997 N42 | 1690 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
38 | Chiwara | Helen | 63-235789C50 | 1914Kambuzuma 5 |
39 | Chiwashira | Oppah | 63-367871V18 | 327 Section Kambuzuma |
40 | Costa | Violet | 63-631339Y07 | 2102 kambuzuma
Section 6 |
41 | Denhere | Tichareva | 63-240630P24 | 1015-29 Mbewe
Kambuzuma |
42 | Dube | Jesilina | 26-066225C26 | 751 Section 3 kambuzuma |
43 | Dube | Jobe | 63-042634B43 | 1008 14 Shandwe
Kambuzuma |
44 | Dube | John | 63-265781C58 | 1253 Kambuzuma 4 |
45 | Dzapasi | Jessie | 15-041351T15 | 1881 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
46 | Dzekerere | Leocardia | 63-269372F24 | 1437 Kambuzuma |
47 | Dziro | Venah | 50-022884Z50 | 1326 Kambuzuma
Section4 |
48 | Dziwani | Abel | 63-079961Z43 | 200 Mutange Ave
Kambuzuma |
49 | Dzumbira | Shadreck | 63-040467W75 | 413 Kambuzuma |
50 | Fashu | Rosemary | 63-131933Q05 | 733 Kambuzuma |
51 | Fazenda | Esnati | 63-526702M63 | 69 Mutasreni
Kambuzuma |
52 | Fulesi | Yonamu | 63-463206V63 | 2422 Kambuzuma |
53 | Gandanzara | Tracy | 63-6511516E47 | 16 Mukura Ave
Kambuzuma |
54 | Gavaza | Theresa | 63-350867M32 | 1438 Kambuzuma |
55 | Gombingo | Chipo | 63092908X07 | 12216 Section 4
Kambuzuma |
56 | Govere | Pascal | 63-33328B18 | 2021 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
57 | Gwengwe | Grace | 63-092908X07 | 9005 Section 1 kambuzuma |
58 | Hangayika | Tewu | 63-672316N68 | 746 Kambuzuma |
59 | Hari | David Harold | 63-049123E63 | 2476 Magada Road
Kambuzuma |
60 | Heteckery | Miriam | 63-491236M63 | 1332 Kambuzuma 4 |
61 | Huni | Elizabeth | 63-645942W25 | 2426 Chirime Road |
Kambuzuma 6 | ||||
62 | Ishemunyoro | John Jera | 63-299989K18 | 10 Makura Ave
Kambuzuma |
63 | Jagada | Nobelungu | 63-683521S07 | 1201 Section 4
Kambuzuma |
64 | Jaji | Janet | 63-655876T25 | 11 Kambuzuma 3 |
65 | Jali | Luciah | 63-613380C04 | 2162 kambuzuma |
66 | Jeka | Julia | 63-744645G77 | 1217 Section 4
Kambuzuma |
67 | Jekese | Emilio | 63-366555P27 | 1680 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
68 | Joe | Theresah | 63-179213G63 | 1839 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
69 | Jowa | Rebecca | 63-377103E47 | 29 Kambuzuma 1 |
70 | Kahari | Muzanenhamo | 63-017200F47 | 1043 Kambuzuma |
71 | Kamhoti | Anastancia | 63-414838W49 | 12543 Kambuzuma |
72 | Kampira | Esina | 63-145423D32 | 1813 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
73 | Kamukombe | Ruviya | 63-455543Q71 | 2122 Kambuzuma |
74 | Kamukondiwa | Jessina | 63-155741T42 | 2570 Kambuzuma
Section 5 |
75 | Kamusikiri | Ivy | 15-023799G48 | 1046 Kambuzuma |
76 | Kaondera | Ebba | 24-006606L32 | 66 Kambuzuma |
77 | Katiyo | Weston | 47-028127D47 | 1753 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
78 | Katiyo | Margaret | 08-390796E47 | 2591 Kambuzuma 5 |
79 | Katsukunya | Edah | 63-299823E48 | 1575 Kambuzuma 5 |
80 | Kazangarare | Hither | 63-299841Z38 | 523 Kambuzuma |
81 | Kembo | Alice | 63-188583R63 | 526 Kambuzuma |
82 | Kusema | Fred | 63-057853T15 | 562 Kambuzuma 2 |
83 | Kwawa | Esteri | 63-300098D15 | 304 Kambuzuma |
84 | Kwenenhu | Rhoda | 63-433041G13 | 1967 Kambuzuma |
85 | Lumbe | Joice | 63-343618H43 | 1704 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
86 | Mabika | Fannuel | 63-375725G67 | 79 Kambuzuma 1 |
87 | Machaka | Reminos | 63-223906L27 | 1532 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
88 | Machaya-Munjeri | Julia | 63-621268B15 | 76 Kambuzuma |
89. | Madinga | Ever | 63-138769W29 | 238 Tsunga Rd.
Kambuzuma 2 |
90. | Madziyo | Thandiwe | 44-058727V44 | 1950 Taguta Rd,
Kambuzuma |
91. | Magadzire | Esinath | 63-437774B27 | 327 Kambuzuma 2 |
92. | Magura | Egenia | 63-598443R48 | 1576 Kambuzuma 5 |
93. | Mahachi | John | 63-204610M26 | 98 Kambuzuma |
94. | Mahwere | Rebbeca | 63-657526M12 | 158 Kambuzuma |
95. | Majakwara | Patricia | 42-014490Y42 | 1599 Kambuzuma 5 |
96. | Makahamadze | Julia | 63-355798X43 | 2646 Kambuzuma Section
5 |
97. | Makaya | Tenias | 63-225307K63 | 191-9th Cres W/Park |
98. | Makiyi | Caroline | 63-1433822K45 | 1352 Kambuzuma 4 |
99. | Makotsa | Enia | 42-040172N42 | 1223 Kambuzuma 4 |
100. | Makumbe | Alifa | 08-485202V07 | 236 Westwood
Kambuzuma |
101. | Makuwa | Elizabeth | 22-052120V25 | 2074 Kambuzuma |
102. | Maloya | Ellen | 63-664603E63 | 2086 Kambuzuma |
103. | Mandapa | Eniah | 63-513469D63 | 1149 Kambuzuma |
104. | Manguta | Timothy | 63-023215T63 | 788 Kambuzuma |
105. | Manhize | Merlin | 63-516154M07 | 272 Section 1
Kambuzuma |
106. | Manyonganise | Kumirayi | 63-619648Q27 | 1057 Sect 3 Kambuzuma |
107. | Manzini | Martha | 26-031840C26 | 1836 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
108. | Maonga | Samukeliso | 08-3605405S53 | 1751 Kambuzuma |
109. | Mapfumo | Gelly | 43-031529A47 | 2593 Kambuzuma 5 |
110. | Mapondera | Felistas | 63-299905P15 | 77 Section 1 Kambuzuma |
111. | Marambakuwanda | Raidah | 63-318600P68 | 80 Cashel Rd Kambuzuma |
112. | Marara | Felistas | 63-285801N18 | 1622 Kambuzuma |
113. | Mariwa | Laimon | 63-262483S45 | 14 Rukudzo Rd
Kambuzuma |
114. | Marungisa | Vaida | 63-678773G63 | 2327 Sect 6 Kambuzuma |
115. | Masambanaka | Josephine | 63-277636N47 | 317 Kambuza |
116. | Masanzu | Sarah | 08-076177C05 | 325 Tsanga St
Kambuzuma |
117. | Masaravanda | Eugenia | 63-436261G26 | 1361 Kambuzma |
118. | Masawi | Tibutsia | 63-524049D32 | 19 Makura Ave
Kambuzuma |
119. | Masaza | Obster | 63-393506J63 | 2786 Kambuzuma 6 |
120. | Masendeke | Sotina | 63-376781E22 | 146 Westwood
Kambuzma |
121. | Mashayamombe | Ephraim | 63-161781J32 | 2552 Kambuzuma 4 |
122. | Masimbira | Seti | 63-638330X80 | 1787 Kambuzuma |
123. | Matauro | Ebbie | 63-611722A07 | 1166 Kambuzuma Sect 4 |
124. | Matoro | Lancelot | 63-079016X50 | 2150 Kambuzuma |
125. | Matsinde | Melvah | 63-430945D07 | 31 Msasa Ave
Kambuzuma Sect 4 |
126. | Matuhwe | Rosah | 63-456276M63 | 1588 Kambuzuma |
127. | Mavushe | Phillip | 63-542307Z22 | 133 Kambuzuma |
128. | Mbawa | Eda | 63-155319K63 | 2107 Kambuzuma |
129. | Meda | Meggy | 63-320180G15 | 1619 Sect 5 Kambuzuma |
130. | Mhlanga | Efraida | 63-202716D13 | 1138 Kambuzuma |
131. | Mkosi | Douglas | 63-544217A29 | 2215 Sect 6 Kambuzuma |
132. | Mlambo | Maria | 42-084324E42 | 2049 Sect 6 Kambuzuma |
133. | Moffat | Ledwin | 63-532150J27 | 2389 Gwenzi Rd
Kambuzuma |
134. | Moffat | Peter | 32-047577X32 | 866 J Nkomo Hsng Coop
Kambuzuma |
135. | Mongoro | Effie | 63-645619S06 | 2253 Mbondoni
Kambuzuma |
136. | Moyo | Lillian | 63-388845S28 | 2152 Kambuzuma |
137. | Muchenje | Ellen | 63-781406B18 | 2750 Sect 5 Kambuzuma |
138. | Muchetwa | Regina | 63-074965T42 | 4050-98th Cre
Kambuzuma |
139. | Mudarikiri | Zephenias | 63-456455G27 | 20 Tsanga Rd
Kambuzuma |
140. | Mudyariwa | Lydiah | 75-120650E18 | 1261 Kambuzuma 4 |
141. | Mufundisi | Domingo | 63-390724K63 | 2655 Kambuzuma |
142 | Mugabe | Muchaendepi | 63-620880E22 | 163 Kambuzuma |
143 | Muganiwa | Ruth | 50-029984R50 | 1313 Kambuzuma 4 |
144 | Muhlakurewa | Jestina | 63-188002K42 | 2361 Msasa Sect 6
Kambuzuma |
145 | Mujeri | Rosemary | 63-468153X45 | 1784 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
146 | Mukahiwa | Pesverayi | 2588 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
|
147 | Mukotokwa | Josephine | 63-434260G75 | 880 Section 3
Kambuzuma |
148 | Mundiziya | Lucia | 63-688624P13 | 1837 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
149 | Muparadzi | Christine | 63-504497B25 | 666 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
150 | Mupfumira | Snodia | 32-021593D32 | 1095 Section 3
Kambuzuma |
151 | Murambinda | Shuvai | 63-204409T26 | 681 Kambuzuma |
152 | Murime | Reggie | 75-019715S75 | 1312 Kambuzuma |
153 | Musarurwa | Patrick | 63-477502J27 | 2206 Chinyika Cres
Section 6 Kambuzuma |
154 | Musewe | Daina | 63-147967T50 | 4 Zimuto Kambuzuma |
155 | Mushaninga | Nekati | 63-135945B25 | 17 Nyota Road
Kambuzuma |
156 | Mushipe | Fadzai | 63-434050D27 | 1097 Kambuzuma 3 |
157 | Mushonga | Shenika | 15-017771X15 | 1114 Sabi Road
Kambuzuma |
158 | Mushonga | Theresa | 63-128487V43 | 2202 Westwood Road
Kambuzuma |
159 | Musonza | Grace | 63-459064S63 | 970 Rukudzo Section 3
Kambuzuma |
160 | Mutandiro | Susan | 63-371402H18 | 1087 Kambuzuma 3 |
161 | Mutoredzanwa | Rosemary | 63-707357D18 | 1595 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
162 | Muvirimi-Dzotizeyi | Edina | 63-523056Z47 | 1155 Kambuzuma |
163 | Muwani | Tariro | 63-452226K26 | 1740 Kambuzuma 5 |
164 | Muwono | Gladys | 18-022491N18 | 831 Joshua Nkomo
Kambuzuma |
165 | Muyome | Faina | 63-459773N63 | 1094 Section 3
Kambuzuma |
166 | Muzeka | Stellah | 63-501491J37 | 371 Kambuzuma 2 |
167 | Muzongondi | Rongina | 64-448391R27 | 236 Westwood drive
Kambuzuma |
168 | Muzuva | Maggie | 63-577045H42 | 1940 Section 5 |
Kambuzuma | ||||
169 | Mwinjilo | Ferestah | 63-48647D63 | 2203 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
170 | Nazare | Bridget | 63-285119M47 | 2473 Section 4
Kambuzuma |
171 | Ndaruza | Serita | 43-084000L43 | 1019 Kambuzuma |
172 | Ndlovu | Similo | 23-026028Q23 | 594 Jushuwa
Kambuzuma |
173 | Ndlovu | Clarine | 13-001724H13 | 1423 Section 4
Kambuzuma |
174 | Ndomeni | Sheila | 63-388378G47 | 377 Kambuzuma |
175 | Ndoro | Lucia | 63-376644F47 | 2247 Kambuzuma |
176 | Nevanji | Memory | 63-476590S32 | 2937 Kambuzuma |
177 | Ngwaru | Calton | 63-1327157V27 | 2567 Kambuzuma
Section 5 |
178 | Nherera | Marita | 32-063741R32 | 2056 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
179 | Nherera | Martha | 70-205992K58 | 31-34 Cres Waren Park 1 |
180 | Njagu | Ethel | 27-048423J48 | 766 Shashe Road
Kambuzuma |
181 | Njarava | Giveson | 63-506907W04 | 579 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
182 | Nyagade | Samson | 50-024223E50 | 256 Kambuzuma |
183 | Nyakudya | Latremouille | 63-1515452N35 | 784 Kambuzuma 3 |
184 | Nyamande | Juliet | 47-156126H47 | 371 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
185 | Nyamazana | Judith | 63-258576W32 | 1990 Kambuzuma |
186 | Nyamundanda | Wilson | 50-065248X50 | 1695 Kambuzuma 5 |
187 | Nyoka | Monica | 63-114718D47 | 1026 Mbowe Road
Kambuzuma |
188 | Nyoni | Margret | 63-497514L58 | 1142 Kambuzuma |
189 | Pedzisai | Esnath | 12-005652W12 | 1968 Kambuzuma |
191 | Phiri | Christina | 63-673823B63 | 318 Kambuzuma 2 |
192 | Rashayi | Marsline | 47-060197M22 | 1289 Section 4
Kambuzuma |
193 | Rugedha | Speki | 32-0319673L32 | 36 Kambuzuma |
Rusike | Judith | 63-737351D63 | 1950 Kambuzuma | |
194 | Sakupwanya | Clara | 63-140692L50 | 504 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
195 | Sande | Esnati | 63-378876G63 | 2202 Westwood
Kambuzuma |
196 | Shamu | Pauline | 63-405025E43 | 1016 Section 3
Kambuzuma |
197 | Shamuyarira | Serenia | 63-034742Y15 | 1986 Kambuzuma |
198 | Shonhiwa | Charlse | 63-990729P80 | 1681 Kambuzuma |
199 | Shoniwa | Joyce | 63-318606W25 | 78 Section 1
Kambuzuma |
200 | Shundai | Philemon | 63-086100X75 | 1896 Kambuzuma |
201 | Sibanda | Phildah | 63-287277S47 | 2234 Kambuzuma 6 |
202 | Sibve | Margaret | 63-111847H85 | 2324 Kambuzuma |
203 | Sikhosana | Ndah | 29-03975K58 | 9013 Section 1
Kambuzuma |
204 | Simango | Annie | 63-044120R13 | 1151 Kambuzuma |
205 | Simbi | Ashanti | 63-437444S63 | 500 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
206 | Sithole | Edith | 63-314614G07 | 138 Kambuzuma |
207 | Siziba | Elizabeth | 63-277508Z21 | 852 Section 3
Kambuzuma |
208 | Solomon | Tania | 63-685463D63 | 1941 Kambuzuma |
209 | Songore | Jesman | 63-490736T47 | 2919 Kambuzuma |
210 | Suwedi | Anna | 63-343041F63 | 2080 Sec 6 Kambuzuma |
211 | Tafirenyika | Fatima | 63-536945W26 | 1855 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
212 | Tagarira | Felistas | 63-528630H25 | 08 Tsanga Road
Kambuzuma |
213 | Tahwa | Moffat Tsinde | 63-040024R71 | 1586 Sec 5 Kambuzuma |
214 | Takaendesa | Joice | 63-449428T25 | 791 Kambuzuma 3 |
215 | Takawira | Sabina | 08-163129Q77 | 2071 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
216 | Tasiyana | Madrene | 63-258644V70 | 1357 Kambuzuma |
217 | Tekere | Jane | 63-504152B11 | 673 Section 2
Kambuzuma |
218 | Tembo | Jesca | 63-286308P07 | 626 Kambuzuma 2 |
219 | Tinkenawo | Catherine | 63-206513F45 | 60 Section 1
Kambuzuma |
220 | Tiyani | Betty | 63-124271D42 | 154 Kambuzuma |
221 | Tsikirayi | Modester | 63-414609X18 | 2225 Kambuzuma |
222 | Wood | Rosemary | 63-155383E00 | 2217 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
223 | Zambara | Tsitsi | 63-402404F18 | 687 Makura Avenue
Kambuzuma |
224 | Zaranyika | Alfred | 63-112323A47 | 1689 Kambuzuma |
225 | Zhareta | Theresa | 63-285882B32 | 3 Cashel Road
Kambuzuma |
226 | Zhuwarara | Scholastic | 63-472830F70 | 1615 Section 5
Kambuzuma |
227 | Zhuwawo | Merina | 63-382524X43 | 2212 Section 6
Kambuzuma |
228 | Zuze | Avirinyu | 63-027603N63 | 380 Aspindale
Kambuzuma |
229 | Zvotowona | Issac | 08-159879H07 | 852 Kambuzuma |
230 | Zvovamwe | Chipo | 63-701754L47 | 18 Tsanga Road
Kambuzuma |
POLICY ON DISTRIBUTION OF FOOD UNDER THE FOOD
DEFICIT MITIGATION PROGRAMME
- HON. CHIMINA asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare to explain to the House:-
- Government policy on distribution of food under the Food Deficit
Mitigation Programme;
- whether it is Government policy for the Ministry to distribute food through ZANU PF Political Party structures as practiced in Wards 10 and 16 in Chiwundura Constituency rather than elected councilors and
Ward Committees as practiced in other wards; and
- whether the Ministry has any plans to increase food allocations per household since there are currently severe shortages due to drought as in the case of Chiwundura Constituency.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Hon. Member of
Parliament, the following is the Government implementation structure of the programme as spelt out in the Food Deficit Mitigation Strategy
Manual;
- Regular Food Security Assessments are conducted by the Zimbabwe Vulnerability Assessment Committee (ZimVAC) to select wards within districts and determine numbers of people in need of food aid.
- After the document is produced, national and provincial sensitisation is done.
- District Drought Relief Committee (DDRC) meets to allocate ward beneficiary numbers depending on the vulnerability ward maps and agree on a schedule for public meetings to introduce the Government of Zimbabwe and the development partner/cooperating partner aid intervention.
- At ward level, public meetings are called and convened through the District Development Coordinator under the auspices of the DDRC with the assistance of local leadership to introduce the objectives of the programme and explain the beneficiary selection, criteria, registration and distribution modalities.
- At village level, beneficiary numbers are predetermined for each village. The communities rank themselves based on food
security indicators and potential income. Only potential beneficiaries are registered based on the cut-off for that village. Eighty percent quorum of all village household members present should participate. The rest of the village members (nonbeneficiaries) registered their names and ID numbers on a secondary register according to their ranking. A help desk is established at this level.
- DDRC to decide cut-off on the village/ward Master Register depending on food availability and taking guidance from the ZimVAC vulnerable food insecure population for the respective ward and the other food aid programmes already in place.
- Verification shall not be conducted prior to distribution of food, but as an ongoing process during the implementation of the Free or Community Food for Assets/ Community Work Programme.
- Member of Parliament, as indicated above,
Government makes use of Drought Relief Commitment in distributing food in times of drought. However, your concern for the above mentioned constituency is noted and investigations will be done to ensure that the correct channel is followed.
- The Ministry had a target of approximately 1.5 million households across the country. Currently, the Ministry is assisting 760 692 households with grain and it has also been providing rice to different constituencies. In addition, World Food Programme through its lean season has up-scaled to cover all the eight rural provinces. If there are serious cases of households having no food at all, it is encouraged that you alert the Drought Relief Committee at District Level to make assessments and assist accordingly.
POLICY ON DEPLOYMENT OF TEACHERS IN RURAL AREAS
- HON. HOUGHTON asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to explain Government policy regarding the deployment of teachers in rural areas and whether the Ministry prioritises the deployment of primary school teachers to areas where they are conversant with local languages of such areas, for example
Tonga speaking areas.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Hon. Houghton,
please be advised that the Commission is now taking into consideration the issue of minority languages in the recruitment process for teachers. In Matebeleland North and Midlands, the Commission is deploying Tonga, Nambya and Ndebele speaking teachers. Bulawayo is getting Ndebele and Matebeleland South is getting Sotho, Vender and Ndebele affluent teachers. Most Shangani teachers are being deployed to the Chiredzi region. To address deficiencies, there is also the introduction of re-skilling of teachers in the respective areas and on appointment, a member should be deployed to rural areas for a period of not less than two years before being considered for transfer to urban areas.
CONSTRUCTION OF A SECONDARY SCHOOL IN MBARE
- HON. CHAMISA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House on what measures the Ministry has taken to construct a secondary school in Mbare.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker, the
question must be redirected to the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education who are responsible for this.
ALLOCATION OF ZUPCO BUSES IN THE MIDLANDS
PROVINCE
- HON. CHIMINA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House the Government policy regarding allocation of ZUPCO buses in the Midlands Province and to state when Chiwundura Constituency will be allocated buses considering that all other neighbouring constituencies have received their allocations.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker
Ma’am, as highlighted on Hon. Chimina’s question, ZUPCO will definitely consider Chiwundura Constituency and other areas once the next batch of buses is received.
ENTITLEMENT OF BENEFITS FOR CHIEF CHIWUNDURA
- HON. CHIMINA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to explain to the House whether Chief Chiwundura who has been occupying the post in an acting capacity for the past eight years is entitled to any benefits considering that he has received none although he has been performing similar duties as substantive chiefs.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker, I
must state before the House that Stephen Musindo Chiwundura was appointed on the 2nd January 2020 as substantive Chief Chiwundura. Nonetheless before that, Zebediah Denhere Tavengwa has been the Acting Chief. He was appointed on the 15th of August 2011 and he has been on payroll. His E. C. Number is 6116820R.
Madam Speaker, Acting Chiefs receive the same salary as substantive chiefs with the exception that Acting Chiefs do not receive vehicles under the Chiefs Vehicle Scheme, the understanding being that Acting Chiefs are normally sons to the substantive chiefs. It follows that they can inherit the deceased’s car and uses it.
CRITERIA FOR AWARDING RATES AND WATER REBATES
- HON. I. NYONI asked the Deputy Minister of Local
Government and Public works to explain the criteria used to award rates and water rebates by local authorities to senior citizens.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): The Urban Councils
Act makes provision for rates exemption in Section 270. There is no provision for the exemption of rates for senior citizens but only for institutions that cater for them. There is no provision in the Urban Councils Act to exempt any person from paying service charges which are calculated on a cost recovery basis. The Urban Councils Act and the Public Finance Management Act provides that each council make its own budget. Should a council wish to provide water and rates at a subsidised level, then it would make that determination on its own and would be required to indicate where the subsidy was to come from. It would be up to the individuals within that council to approach the council with a proposal.
AVAILING OF ACARICIDE CHEMICALS FOR DIP TANKS IN
MWENEZI DISTRICT
- HON. OMAR asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture,
Water and Rural Resettlement to inform the House when sufficient acaricides chemicals for dip tanks in Mwenezi District will be availed as cattle are dying because of tick borne diseases due to lack of the necessary chemicals.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER
AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF
MARSHAL SHIRI): The Government has been facing serious challenges in implementing the national communal dipping service meant to protect the national herd from tick-borne diseases over the past two years. Severe shortages of dip chemical resulted in serious disruptions to the communal dipping programme and consequently in the increased prevalence of tick-borne diseases.
My Ministry has been facing challenges in procuring dip chemicals for the national dipping programme because the dip
Chemical manufacturing companies were failing to access foreign currency to import raw materials required in the manufacture of the acaricides.
Fiscal transfers to the Department of Veterinary Services for the procurement of dip chemicals are being directed to areas that are badly affected by tick-borne diseases. I can confirm that there is an allocation for Masvingo Province and Mwenezi too will access the acaricides.
Farmers too are kindly advised not to wait for Government and buy dip chemicals to dip their cattle and protect them from tick-borne diseases.
PROVISION OF SUBSIDISED DRUGS AND MEDICINES FOR
FARMERS LIVESTOCK
- HON. OMAR asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement when the Ministry will provide subsidised drugs and medicines for farmers’ livestock through extension officers so that the farmers are not exploited by unregistered veterinarians.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER
AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF
MARSHAL SHIRI): Hon. Member, it is the responsibility of
Government to ensure that all drugs distributed are registered. Price variations from various distributors are accounted for by the foreign currency component of acquiring these drugs. Almost all livestock drugs or the active ingredient are imported. All veterinarians in Zimbabwe are registered.
On that note, farmers are encouraged to improve their animal husbandry practices and biosecurity so as to reduce or eliminate the need for expensive Veterinary drugs.
DISTRIBUTION OF FARMING INPUTS THROUGH ZANU PF
POLITICAL PARTY STRUCTURES
- HON. CHIMINA asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture,
Water and Rural Resettlement to inform the House whether it is Government policy for the Ministry to distribute farming inputs through ZANU PF Political party structures as practiced in Wards 10 and 16 in Chiwundura Constituency.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER
AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF
MARSHAL SHIRI): Madam Speaker, I have no communication that confirms the alleged practices in Wards 10 and 16 in Chiwundura Constituency. The Presidential Input Scheme is a social protection programme that targets poor farming households with an input pack enabling the household to produce for its household food security. Communities are charged with the responsibility to select the beneficiaries.
POLICY ON MAINTENANCE OF BOREHOLES IN RURAL
AREAS
- HON. CHIMINA asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture,
Water and Rural Resettlement
- To inform the House the Government policy on the maintenance of boreholes in rural areas such as Chiwundura Constituency and to explain why boreholes in this constituency have not been serviced for the past three years; and
- Whether the Ministry has any plans to drill more boreholes in Chiwundura Constituency considering that the people have to travel more than seven kilometers in search of clean and safe water.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF
MARSHAL SHIRI): Hon. Member, before 2010, Government had
multiple players in the water, sanitation and hygiene service provision. Government recognised the need of a coordinated water and sanitation sector and established an Inter-Ministerial Committee on Water and Sanitation under the chairmanship of the Minister responsible for Water. The Committee is called National Action Committee on WASH (NAC).
The National Action Committee (NAC) has the overall coordination and management responsibility of the water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) sector, providing holistic, national WASH policy direction and guidance and is the one-stop-entry into, and a monitoring, supervisory and resource mobilisation hub for the WASH sector in Zimbabwe.
My Ministry is involved in the drilling of boreholes, especially in water stressed areas whilst DDF provides services in the rural areas through borehole drilling and rehabilitation and together with ZINWA, they, from time to time, implement Government programmes supported by development partners. Other service providers include NGOs, private sector, local entities such as mining companies (usual under the Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) and Community level Committees.
The Chiwundura boreholes which require rehabilitation are part of the 20, 116 boreholes and deep wells which are non-functional in the country and require resources to the tune of ZW$117,158,024 for rehabilitation.
(b) The Ministry had prioritised the drilling of new boreholes programme as a drought mitigation strategy this year and would be focused on areas critically affected by the current drought. As such, borehole drilling rigs have since been deployed to each rural province to ensure that water crisis areas are quickly addressed. The selection and prioritisation of areas of intervention is being done through the offices of the Ministers of State for each province, which is taking charge of the borehole rigs and determine areas to drill.
The first round of priority areas had already been drilled and new priority sites are being collated and I would urge the Hon.
Member to submit the priority sites for borehole drilling through the Office of the Minister of State for implementation. However, the other priority sites which were earlier submitted from the Chiwundura
Constituency are Mandindindi Ward 14, Ward 9 Tongogara, Ward 11 Mutengwa and Ward 18 Nehanda and need to be reconfirmed.
POTABLE WATER FOR MABVUKU/TAFARA
- 59. J. CHIDHAKWA asked the Minister of Lands,
Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement to inform the House when Mabvuku/Tafara will have potable water considering that the constituency has been without tape water for more than a decade.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Hon. Speaker, my Ministry assists local authorities in the discharge of their functions under the Rural District Councils Act [Chapter 29:13] and the Urban Councils Act [Chapter 29:15] with regard to the development and management of water resources in areas under their jurisdiction and in particular, the provision of potable water and the disposal of waste water. As such, my Ministry is mandated to intervene when the local authorities fail to discharge effectively the delegated mandate of water provision.
The Mabvuku/Tafara water challenges arise from the weakened pumping capacity amidst the expansion of the city. The expansion of the city had not been commensurate with the water abstraction and treatment capacity hence the furthest areas are severely affected. However, a lasting solution through the development of the Kunzvi – Musami Dams is being implemented.
COMMENCEMENT OF KUNZVI DAM PROJECT
- HON. J. CHIDHAKWA asked the Minister of Lands,
Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement to inform the House when the Kunzvi Dam Project will commence given that it is the only hope for water source for Mabvuku/Tafara constituency.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Hon. Speaker, Government is very much committed to the construction of the Kunzvi Dam Project to alleviate the water supply challenges faced by the City of Harare and its satellite towns. The Kunzvi Project is one of the top priority projects under the
Transition Stabilisation Programme and Infrastructure Investment Plan. To that effect, an allocation of ZWL $259 million had been made under the 2020 budget for the dam to commence this year. Contract negotiations are being finalised and the dam will commence this year. The project comprises of the construction of the Kunzvi Dam and Musami Dam, the water supply treatment plant and the pipeline to take water to the Harare’s eastern suburbs and Mt Hampden where the new Parliament building is being constructed.
The project is expected to be complete in three years’ time.
CONSTRUCTION OF FEEDLOT IN MBERENGWA EAST
CONSTITUENCY
- HON. RAIDZA asked the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement to inform the House when the construction of feedlot in Ward 7, Mberengwa East Constituency will be completed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Hon. Speaker, the community project to construct a hundred (100) beast feedlot in Ward 7 of Mberengwa East
Constituency started in 2013 with financial support from the Food and
Agriculture Organisation (FAO). The project was not completed and ADRA took over. It failed to complete the project too and as it stands now, the responsibility to complete the construction rests with the community.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF
NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON.
SIMBANEGAVI), the House adjourned at five Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 26th May, 2020
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
SITTING ARRANGEMENTS IN THE CHAMBER
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I have one announcement. In pursuance of the resolution of the Committee on Standing Rules and
Orders allowing Parliament to conduct its business during the COVID 19 lockdown period, only a limited number of Hon. Members will be allowed to sit in the Chamber. The rest of the Hon. Members will follow proceedings from the Government Caucus, Senate Chamber, courtyard and the dining room on their tablets through a link that has been sent to their emails by the ICT department. This has been necessitated by the requirement to maintain social distancing by the
Hon. Members. Hon. Members wishing to contribute to the debates should submit their names to their respective Whips so that they may take turns to come into the chamber.
+HON. MATHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir. On my behalf and Nkayi South
Constituency, I would want to thank the President of Zimbabwe, His
Excellency, Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa for leading the painful war against COVID 19. In the lockdowns that we have gone through especially the first one which lasted for the past three weeks, we have noticed that in Zimbabwe, we have managed not to spread the pandemic. The second phase which lasted for two weeks this and we are in the third phase as we speak, we have noticed that the number of people who have been infected are few and those who have been infected are recovering. I would like to thank the President of Zimbabwe for taking a stance in ensuring that the people of Zimbabwe protect themselves by strictly adhering to lockdown regulations. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, you will appreciate that we as Parliamentarians are here on tax payers’ money, and to show that we maintain our mandate of representation and oversight and also legislative in that way.
Hon. Mutseyami was recalled by the MDC T as the Chief Whip, I do not know if they have yet appointed one, but it is also important that for Parliament to be effective and to be a Parliament. If you could implore them to have a Chief Whip and to also get their Members to come to Parliament, because we certainly expect them to attend to Parliament without fail. They have resources from tax payers’ money which and cars which allows them to discharge their duties, and I do not know why they are here. A continuation like this will render this House useless. As much as I am independent and I am strong, I do not think I will be able to deal with all the Ministers.
Tomorrow we have got question time and you know that
Members of the ruling party, government party are whipped. It is probably even better not to even have it because they will never ask any questions. They are constantly whipped, no wonder why they have somebody called a chief whip to just whip them. You know that for a long time they are not capable of asking questions to their Ministers. So I do not know what sort of question time we are going to have tomorrow. I am saying this because tomorrow is very important because a lot of events have happened while we have been away and we expect Ministers to be here to be asked questions.
I see probably four Members here who ask questions, I do not know whether we will then be given the go ahead to ask as many questions as we want, breaking the rules and so forth. I would want to understand that because I seem to be the only opposition which is here. The ruling party is not opposition and they have never been the opposition. So it is also important for the ruling party not to celebrate the demise of the opposition, but to focus on their Manifesto that they promised the people to deliver at the end of the day. That is my point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your cause of concern as far tax payers’ money is concerned is correct and the missing Members of Parliament need not to be reminded that they took an oath of office here in the National Assembly, which obligates them to respect the Constitution and the laws of Zimbabwe. If they so decide not to because of certain happenings in the history of their parties, it is not the responsibility of the Chair to persuade any Member of Parliament to come into the House. We have Standing Rules and when these are violated; at some point, the Standing Rules and Orders shall be invoked accordingly, and without fear or favour.
As to your observation that you may be the lone opposition Member of Parliament and therefore the Hon. Members from the ruling party may not ask substantial questions, why not wait until this happens tomorrow. To that extent, if your prediction becomes reality, you shall be vindicated but I doubt, because they have the responsibility to have the Executive to account in terms of Section 107 (2) of the Constitution. If they do not ask relevant questions, they will be guilty of violating that section which I doubt they will fail to follow.
On the question of chief whip, again, it is not the responsibility of the Chair to ask a party or parties to appoint their chief whips. It is their responsibility. Again, the Standing Orders are very clear in terms of Standing Order Number 13 states to have a chief whip from the main opposition party. They are absent, unduly, therefore, the Standing Orders, again, will apply according. Parliament processes will continue nonetheless.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF 2020 EDITION OF STANDING ORDERS OF
THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move the
motion standing in my name that:
WHEREAS section 139 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Act (No.20) provides that the proceedings of the Senate and National Assembly are regulated by rules known as Standing Orders, which are made by the Houses individually or jointly on the recommendation of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders.
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of the Constitution, this House
resolves that the 2020 edition of the Standing Orders of the National Assembly be adopted.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
MARRIAGES BILL [H. B. 7, 2019]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: Marriages Bill [H. B. 7,
2019].
House in Committee.
Short Title put and agreed to.
Clauses 1 to 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9;
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move the
amendment standing in my name that we delete Clause 9 on page 6 of the Bill and substitute the following clauses (and renumber all subsequent clauses accordingly)-
“9 Chiefs as marriage officers for district
- Any Chief, by virtue of his or her office and so long as he or she holds such office, may be designated as a marriage officer in customary law marriages for the district in which he or she holds office by the Minister at the request of
such Chief and in accordance with such conditions as the
Minister may prescribe.
- The Registrar shall keep a register in the prescribed manner of all Chiefs designated by the Minister as marriage officers in terms of this section”.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: It is just an issue of
clarification because on my Bill, I do not have the original 8. In your amendment, are you proposing that chiefs will not be marriage officers with regards to civil marriages and will be limited to be marriage officers around customary marriage? I have a problem with that because it defeats your earlier provision that seeks to equalise both customary and civil marriages. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): In the Bill,
we had various categories of marriage officers and chiefs, even in the original format. We had not included them specifically in the manner that we have done as marriage officers for customary marriages. We are saying by the nature of the marriage, chiefs are best suited to solemnise the customary marriages. We have indicated that if they satisfy the requirements, then they become marriage officers. We took into account the nature of the marriage that they are going to solemnise and say it has its specific requirements according to our customs and dictates.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Then I really have an
issue because if we do that, we have not dealt with the issue around equalisation. If a woman is in a rural community and the two want a chief to solemnise their marriage as a civil marriage, I do not see why that is a problem because a church Minister in the same area is allowed or is given the right to be a marriage officer. They have always been marriage officers. By the mere fact that you are now saying you as chiefs are only good enough for the traditional or customary marriage; you are in fact beginning to create a difference between the marriages. If you were going to say there are certain things or requirements around the civil marriage that you think chiefs have no capacity to do, then indicate what it is that we need to capacitate them. For some of us, we want to make it easier for women to access marriage officers and all of a sudden you are now saying if you are in a rural community, the only marriage that you are able to get is a customary marriage – you are now forcing me to enter into that marriage yet I want a civil marriage. I do not see why that is particularly right in your amendment.
If we are making the marriage officers, let them be equal marriage officers – chief or no chief.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, not every Pastor is a marriage officer. You have to satisfy certain requirements for you to end up being a marriage officer in terms of the civil marriages but we are saying broadly speaking, there is nothing that can bar a chief to become a marriage officer in terms of customary law because they are the custodians of the very customs and marriages that we want to solemnise. Elsewhere in the Bill, there is nothing that stops me to appoint anyone a marriage officer if they satisfy certain requirements.
You must also be aware that our marriages are recognised everywhere else. There are certain conditions that have to be satisfied before you can be a marriage officer for all marriages. What we are saying is – as a general rule, every chief is a marriage officer in terms of customary marriages but not every priest or pastor is a marriage officer in terms of civil except magistrates because of the nature of their training. We cannot because there are certain things that we have to look into and if they are satisfied, then they can be marriage officers.
HON. T. MLISWA: I think this gives us an opportunity to come back home and do what is good for our people. We cannot continuously be swamped with cultures and traditions which are not ours. The chiefs are recognised in the Constitution and by virtue of being recognised in the Constitution, you have got to give them the power that goes with that. You cannot recognise them in the Constitution and then say they cannot do that.
I implore the Minister to tell us what qualifies or disqualifies one to become a marriage officer or not to become a marriage officer and so forth because if we do not have that, it is prone to corruption. This Parliament must sit down and go through every point because at the end of the day, it is prone to corruption. Members of Parliament who are elected by people can also do the same task because we are trusted by the people more than anybody else but we are looked down upon for a very long time. My colleague members, we have the trust of the people hence we must also be given the power that goes with it.
You are not creating a situation where there is the elite. There is now unnecessary discrimination at the end of the day. We must be able to ensure that people go where they want to go at the end of the day. It is the same thing as somebody having a car and wanting fuel; blended or unblended. In this country, we are being forced to do what we do not want to. Even the fuel that we buy, we are forced; do not force us on this issue of marriage because it is the matters of the heart, driven by the heart and by feelings.
We trust the chiefs and work with them in whatever we do. During the liberation struggle, they were instrumental together with spirit mediums in leading to where we are today. Why are we now choosing that they must not be involved in this? Our ancestors will be angry with us. We do not want that because the ancestors are already angry with a lot of things. We do not want this. The Minister should just clear this.
HON. TOGAREPI: There are people who are not church members but subscribe to traditional religions. For me to be forced to go to a church so that I get a civil marriage, it will be unfair. I think it is important that the Minister finds a way of improving whatever needs to be improved on our chiefs so that they can allow us to marry through our chiefs than to be forced to do it in the church. Otherwise most of these churches have also presided over so many failed marriages and may close one day. It is very important for our traditions and very important for our communities even if there was to come a time when there are challenges in marriages, chiefs should be there to try to protect those marriages but pastors may have gone. So, I think it is important that we allow our chiefs the same powers that we can give to our pastors. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: As Africans we have a problem because we look down on ourselves as a people. When we talk of marriage officers, we are of the opinion that one must be educated and can speak English. If you look at the history of Parliament, only those who we very educated became Parliamentarians and it was only through a long struggle that even us were able to come into this House.
The main issue here is that because our chiefs are not educated, they therefore do not qualify to be presiding officers over marriages. We should look into this issue to see what qualifications are necessary for one to become a marriage officer, what degree one must possess to qualify to be a presiding officer. If we look at our MPs who are here; some are not educated and some are educated but we are all Commissioners of Oath because we were elected to be Members of Parliament by the people and we are now Commissioners of Oath.
The Minister here knows that we are all Commissioners of Oath here. So the main issue is that our traditional chiefs, whether they cannot write and use their thumb print instead of a signature should be allowed to be marriage officers. We should move away from the mindset that only those who are well educated should be marriage officers.
If you look at the Chinese, they use their own language and do not rely on English as a means of communication. This is what we should do. Our traditional chiefs should be allowed to be marriage officers. We should value our own tradition and not that of the white people.
*HON. MAKONYA: I support that chiefs should be given powers to be marriage officers. When we went around as a
Committee holding public hearings on this Bill, people said that they were in support of chiefs being marriage officers because they did not have the money to travel to towns to access marriage officers.
I believe that chiefs know all the people in their respective areas. The advantage of this is that if someone wants to marry an underage girl, the chief is quick to notice and he will refuse to solemnise such a marriage. Therefore, chiefs should be given those powers of being marriage officers. This will also help those women who have not registered their marriages because they do not have the money to go to the courts.
*HON. T. ZHOU: I stand up to add my voice to this debate that chiefs should play the role of marriage officers. It is surprising that we want to remove such a role from our chiefs when they have more important powers such as holding traditional courts that are recognised by law. It therefore is not right to deny them the powers of standing in as marriage officers. I do not think that it is right for Parliament to do such a thing. I thank you.
HON. MATARANYIKA: I want to support the position that our chiefs should be given equal footing with all the other marriage officers because the purpose of this Bill in the first place is to consolidate the marriage laws of Zimbabwe. So what we are basically saying is all the marriages are going to be the same henceforth and what it means is the marriage officers themselves should also be equal otherwise the position being proposed by the Hon. Minister might result in segregation of other marriage officers and I do not think that is what the Constitution says. It might fall foul of Section 56 of the Constitution.
From the new Bill, it is very clear that the intention is to avoid discrimination in terms of the type of marriage, so I would then suggest that there is no type of marriage that should appear more superior than the other marriage. Whilst I understand the argument by the Minister that some chiefs might not be adequately prepared to handle some of the marriages, I think the solution lies with training. There is need to train the chiefs so that they all attain a certain level and that is where we can then avoid the pitfalls that the Minister is trying to avoid. I thank you very much Hon. Chair.
*HON. MADIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to support the point of view that our traditional leaders should be able to solemnise marriages. I was looking at a document done by Women in Law in Southern Africa and they were conducting a research on how women perceived traditional leaders’ courts. Women are quite free to go to the chief and litigate against those who would have offended them and they understand each other. So women were being encouraged to go to such courts.
I support that traditional leaders should solemnise marriages or should be given that power. This helps a lot of marginalised women to be able to understand the procedures and proceedings, because the chief will also be taught what the procedure is regarding solemnisation of marriages. Speaking on behalf of the majority of women who are victims of domestic violence, this will be mitigated because the chiefs who are familiar to them will be dealing with such cases and the subjects will be deterred from doing that because they will be respecting the chief. I thank you.
*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you very much. I support that chiefs should be given powers that are the same as the ones given to any other marriage officers. They should not be confined to just traditional or customary law because the majority of the chief’s clients are those in the rural areas and a lot of people might be looking down upon them. So it would mean that they would choose to go to church and have their marriages solemnised. If they go to the chief, they may tend to look down upon your marriage certificate. There should be adequate training for traditional leaders, they should be properly trained in terms of how the forms are filled and how they go about solemnising the marriages. Marriage officers should have the same power. I thank you.
*HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Let us go deeper and the Minister explains to us. The issue that we have is that the chiefs should be allowed to conduct civil marriages because they already conduct customary marriages. What is the law that we intend to make? What is special about the civil marriage that we do not find in the customary marriage? These are the questions we need to answer. When we have answers then we know how we can come up with the law because at the moment, it is neither here nor there.
+HON. R. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will speak in Ndebele. Our chiefs are the people who are staying with members of the community and most of the times, there are women who are from rural areas who face problems, especially in their marriages. I also want to say this Mr. Speaker Sir, that there are disabled women who dream of getting married at a certain point in life but in rural areas especially, when one mentions that the bride is disabled, most people will laugh and criticise you.
Mr. Speaker Sir, so many people who are disabled look down on themselves and think that disability takes away their right to get married. If we give powers to our chiefs to be marriage officers for all types of marriages, it will be for a noble cause for these are the people who know the challenges that members of the community face. We also need to take note that we are voted for by the people and chiefs elect themselves in the Chiefs’ Council. I am not sure, maybe because I am blind – but if only our tradition we can have disabled chiefs, it will give even the other disabled persons confidence if they see one of their fellow colleagues being given such a position. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. S. SITHOLE: I support other Hon. Members that our chiefs must be given powers in the Marriage Bill. However, what I am saying to the Minister is that this Marriage Bill to the chief, needs education or a degree. Why can the Minister not arrange to employ secretaries for those chiefs? I thank you.
HON. NGULUVHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think Hon. Members, we seem to be losing track because we seem like we are arguing which is more important in terms of marriages. I think what is important is for us to be very clear, which marriage is recognised and which one is not. At the moment I think people tend to think that if you go traditional, the other one is better than the other. So, what is important for the Minister is to say, all the marriages, which I think it is, are equal. There is no need to quarrel, if one decided to go traditional and the other takes the other one. As it is, it seems like we are saying the chiefs are being denied or whatever is being given by the chiefs is more important than the other one. That is where I think Hon. Members are missing the point. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. We are not missing any point, we are just debating. I thought I could just come in.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI – MUSHONGA: Perhaps a follow
up from Hon. Nguluvhe; I do not think that is the point. The point is that the women should be given the choice or the couples should be given the choice on what marriage they want. If you then limit the chiefs to only do customary, it means you are basically forcing those women or that man to go for the customary marriage because that is the easiest way they are able to access a chief. We are basically saying, allow a chief to be a marriage officer, whether for civil or customary marriages. Do not necessarily say for chiefs in particular you are going to go customary. If you insist, we are going to call for the division of the House.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Hon. Chair. I want to put it on record that marriage officers - all of them, apply to the Minister to be designated marriage officers. They undergo certain training before they become marriage officers. This Clause that we are inserting, we are mindful of the different cultural diversities that we have. It simply says that the only impediment that is there is to say a Chief does not become a marriage officer automatically, they then have to apply to the Minister if they want to solemnise the customary marriages within the communities that they stay. Hon Chair, the Minister will then have to designate them but for civil marriages anyone who wants to become a civil marriage officer can apply to the Minister and the requisite qualifications that are needed then apply. So what we cannot do is to say we are going to have unification of civil and customary marriages, that we cannot because our customs are diverse and we will leave it like that.
What this Clause is simply saying is a Chief does not become a marriage officer automatically by virtue of being a Chief, but they make the relevant applications and they are designated. Also, this is to ring fence this institution of marriage because it is important for other issues that may arise out of that marriage and we would not want questions arising as to the legitimacy or otherwise of how it was done. Generally there is nothing that stops a Chief from becoming a marriage officer in terms of civil marriages if they satisfy the requirements that are wanted just like any other person.
Hon. Chair, I indicated that not all pastors are marriage officers.
Hon. Members were worried that we are segregating Chiefs, not all Pastors, the majority of Pastors in fact are not marriage officers. So what we are saying is those that qualify can still apply and this particular Clause that we have inserted is to make it very clear, so as to ensure that we protect the institution of marriage and we do not have somebody waking up and going to the Registrar of Marriages and say I want marriage booklets I am a marriage officer by virtue of me being a Chief. They will have to present a certificate that they have been given by the Minister and they use that to go to the
Registrar of Marriages and there are acquittals that they have to do.
There is need for some controls. Likewise, if you want to be a civil marriage officer, you undergo the requisite trainings so the question of looking down upon Chiefs and culture does not apply. The mischief that we are trying to say is somebody just waking up without any regulations – if you are a marriage officer you are not supposed to demand payment. Those are some of the issues that you have to take into consideration. This Clause is a straightforward Clause that had this impediment to say that the Chiefs before they become marriage officers have to apply to the Minister. It is not mandatory that if you are a Chief you must be a marriage officer. You must read this ‘it says a Chief may be designated if he makes the relevant application’. I will give you a good example. Our Chiefs are allowed to preside over customary laws but the day that they are installed by the Minister of Local Government and Public Works, they do not attend to cases in their communities without applying to the Minister of Justice and Parliamentary Affairs for a certificate to authorise them to preside over those cases. This is exactly what we are trying to say. That requirement does not mean that we have demeaned the Chief to say that you cannot preside over cases before you make the relevant applications so that you are designated officer of the Court by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
I think this Clause as it is, it is okay. The other sections they say, if you want to be a marriage officer, you make the relevant applications and if you satisfy those requirements you can become a marriage officer. Unless if Hon. Members are saying because you are a Chief you are exempted from all those issues and then just because you have been installed a Chief you can demand the marriage register, books and you start doing whatever you want. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: No, no, Hon.
Minister. Look at your amendment on Clause 9, if what you are telling us is what you want to do, then just take out the customary and say maybe she be the designated as marriage officer in marriages for the district in which he or she holds. When you go beyond, yes, it actually says that you as the Minister will be able to respond to the effect. Why are you particularly saying customary? If what you are saying is true, we will then understand that for customary. If you are a Chief, it is automatic, but in terms of how you are explaining you are saying even if you are a Chief the customary law marriage is not automatic, it has to come by application. So just let them apply to become marriage officers.
To emphasise that point, if we go on to Clause 10, where you are designating heads of embassies as marriage officers. Why is it okay that for heads of embassies you are not necessarily prescribing? So there is a problem around how you are dealing with Chiefs. For this one if you insist, we will divide the House.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): This Clause
pertains to customary marriage so I do not know why the Hon. Member wants us to remove reference to customary marriages when it is speaking about that. Clause 10, it is more or less the same. If you look at it, it gives certain conditions that will allow the head of that mission to become a marriage officer. They do not become automatic marriage officers by virtue of being heads, but it is subject to satisfying certain conditions. If you read the Clause it says, ‘every head of an embassy of Zimbabwe in a foreign state, territory, diplomatic or consular mission in a foreign state or territory shall; by virtue for his or her office, and so long as she holds such officer, be a marriage officer whilst on duty at that embassy of mission, and shall exercise the duties of a marriage officer subject to such condition (including the conditions that one of the parties to a proposed marriage must be a Zimbabwean citizen as the Minister shall prescribe).
The Hon. Member is not familiar with drafting. You do not discuss conditions and regulations when you are passing the primary legislation. If you look at the way it is crafted, I am simply saying that a chief because of the diversity of our customs and because of the need to control the proper solemnisation of marriages - the chief then applies to the Minister...
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Hon. Chair. I think the
Minister is misguided when he talks about Members of Parliament not being familiar. Yes, I am not but I am here to learn. So, you who are learned, tell us the qualification. That is why we are defending it. I am stupid and I have not read. That is why I ask in my small brain. You cannot answer because I do not know. You must be able to answer and educate us so that we pass a law understanding very well and that is why we exercise oversight. If we may remind you, ours is to ask every question no matter how silly and it must be answered because we are not all intelligent. Some of us are dull. Let him educate us as a seasoned lawyer to these things which are there - no short-cuts in this game anymore.
HON. ZIYAMBI: That was not a point of order. In terms of drafting all the legislation when we are doing them where regulations or others come...
HON. T. MLISWA: Sorry Hon. Chair, he must rule. He must not tell us things which were not done. Can you tell us what we understand so that we know.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. M.
KHUMALO): Hon. Minister, can you explain? You have not ruled on the procedure of making laws and that is what he wants.
HON. ZIYAMBI: That is what I was trying to explain that it is not necessarily a point of order and he requests you to rule. I am saying when you have legislation and you do not draft legislation and you bring the legislation; the regulations at the same time - when we are saying that subject to conditions that will be prescribed, those conditions will be published to say that this is what is going to happen, but for the Hon. Member to say I should have brought those regulations now, it is not possible.
I am saying there is a condition because of the need to control. I gave an example that marriage officers are given the marriage registers and they are supposed to acquit what they would have done and there are certain conditions. I mentioned one that they are not supposed to charge. All those conditions have to be made familiar with. When they apply, they are made familiar with all these issues and they cannot be in the legislation.
That is why when you look at the legislation, it says subject to conditions that may be prescribed and those conditions can be prescribed. What I cannot do at the moment is to go through all that but Parliament has sight of all the regulations that are published and all the regulations that are gazetted. Our Parliamentary Legal Committee is the one that represents all of us in looking at the statutory instruments, the regulations and if they see anything, they highlight to Parliament and we debate.
I am saying the way it is, it is not fatally defective but it allows for controls and it is not demeaning anyone. For us to suggest that by saying a chief must apply to be a marriage officer we will have demeaned them – even those that are not chiefs, they still apply. In another clause which designates other marriage officers, they still have to apply.
HON. MUNETSI: Mine is just a simple question. Are there some types of marriages that the chiefs cannot execute – because from this statement it looks like they are given just one type of marriage to execute and that is our argument? All we are saying is, let them execute all types of marriages, simple. If you prescribe that they should do customary marriages, then you have limited them. That is our argument.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon Chairman, we have a very minor
issue. We are not arguing with the Minister as to who should be solemnising these types of marriages. That is all that is at stake. We are simply saying if the chief can solemnise a customary marriage that will involve us members of the Apostolic Faith where we have ten marriages, why should he not do the same with all the other types of marriages where one is going to choose monogamous marriage? Who should solemnise some of these common law marriages and these customary laws?
If you are saying that all marriages can be solemnised by any marriage officer and that all these marriage officers should all come through the Minister, there should not be any discrimination as to who is going to conduct civil marriages and who is going to conduct customary marriages. There should simply be one word saying that if one wants to be a marriage officer, they should go to the Minister and get these guidelines without discriminating or stating whether it is customary marriage officer or a civil marriage officer. It is that wording that we would want removed so that it also enables our chiefs to go through the same procedure, that they can become marriage officers - that is what we are all talking about.
We cannot have such a scenario where we have magistrates or judges becoming marriage officers but I would want this to be inclusive, that once you are a chief and you apply – you can become a marriage office or as long as you meet the set requirements or you meet the criteria of one being a marriage officer, whether I am a headman or a chief, it should simply state whether it is the headman or the village head or the kraal head or it is the chief who solemnises marriages. It should be clearly stated in this Act. We are not arguing with the Minister but we are saying that the Minister should clarify to us so that we are on the same level with him. That is all. If the marriages are the same then solemnisation should be done by anyone.
*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I rise Mr.
Chairman to say that when we enact these laws, we enact them laws for the benefit of the people. Once we go to the people and they give us their feedback that they want chiefs to solemnise marriages, we should be able to do just that. They even pointed out that these chiefs need to be trained. So that should be part and parcel of your regulations. Everyone should apply because some of the chiefs may not even know how to apply. If we have such a law that we like and support, we should have a law in place where chiefs solemnise marriages and you then stipulate in the regulations the criteria to be met by the marriage officers. We should not change such matters in this House because during public hearings, all the people were in agreement that chiefs should be trained and that they should become marriage officers. So, put regulations in place to regulate this. We should not be changing these issues.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you very much Hon. Chair. I
want to say that everything said by Members of the august House is in order. In English, if we were to talk about the issue of certification as a result of modernisation, there are some marriages of convenience. What does our law say about it? If you want me to become a citizen of Zimbabwe, I should marry a woman who is Zimbabwean. The
same applies to women who should also be married to a Zimbabwean men.
There are some men and women who want to have marriages of convenience focusing on the issue of inheritance. If you are in America and Australia, it should be clearly spelt out. In Western countries, there is a law that talks about prenuptial agreement. Do we have such a law in this country because we do not want to leave any loopholes? We would want a situation where the prophets and the chiefs solemnise marriages. It depends with the parties to the marriage and it is none of our business. However, our marriages should maintain the moral sovereignty and the dignity of the Zimbabwean people.
The Constitution does not allow people of the same sex to be married but it does not bar people of the same sex to fall in love on the streets. That is a loophole and the law should close all these lacunas that a person wherever they are coming from, if they come to Zimbabwe, marry a Zimbabwean woman and gets citizenship, we need the prenuptial arrangement where people get married in community of property or out of community of property. Are we taking these things into consideration when we deal with the marriage law? I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: During the pre-colonial era, there were no divorces. If a marriage was solemnised by a chief, should they have any difficulties, they would go back to the chief or the traditional leaders. The traditional leaders would then counsel them. How many people are divorcing because of these educated people who are solemnising the marriages at the courts? In America, how many marriages last since this is modern?
I see that chiefs are not only marriage officers; they are the custodians of our culture. So, if you give authority to the chiefs or traditional leadership, we would have respected our own traditions. We are losing our way by not following our own culture. Even if the marriage certificate is not signed, once the chief has pronounced the two as man and wife; that is it.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. Section 280 of the Constitution, Chapter 15, clearly talks about the traditional leadership. It talks about institutions and roles of traditional leaders. If you go to the functions of traditional leaders, Section 282 (1) (a), it reads as follows; “to promote and uphold cultural values of the communities and in particular, to promote sound family values.” So, how can we equally go against the Constitution when the Constitution clearly talks about sound family values? When you make them marriage officers across the board, you are promoting sound family values.
The problem that we have Mr. Chair and colleague Members, is that we give too much power to the Ministers. One must write to the Minister. Hon. Ziyambi today could do the right thing. What about the next Minister who moves in? Will he do the right thing? We will always have this issue sitting here, giving powers to the Minister and as Parliament we do not give power to ourselves. I have warned this
Parliament many times. We create monsters. “Mangwana wanouya wachiba and tisu tinenge tavapa mvumo yekuti wabe.” If we have oversight, why can we not also be part of this?
In other nations, board members are appointed by Parliament. There must be a board which must be put in place if we want this to be quite transparent Mr. Chair, which involves everyone in there and not apply to the Minister. I have a problem with everything Minister, and it is this Parliament that passes that. The royal family in England - there is no politician who does anything without observing the Queen. Why are we not doing that on our own? Why are our chiefs always belittled? We cannot have a situation where our chiefs are belittled when the President actually honours the chiefs. As a village head, I am also respected. We are too much modernised. We should come with a system that values our chiefs and places them in their proper place. We should not only try and show them respect when it is election time. A chief should remain a chief and should be respected.
No Member of Parliament became a member before coming through the chiefs. We do not want people who belittle our chiefs. We want people that are honest; we do not want snakes. They should know that a chief is a respectable person. For this country to move forward, we should respect our own cultural values. We are failing to have rains because of failure to observe our traditional institutions. Minister, you should help this country to ensure that this country reverts to where it was. Thieves are stealing minerals and chiefs are unhappy. The community trusts that used to give something to the chiefs were removed. We want to have a one-stop shop so that when you go to the border at Chirundu, the Zambians and Zimbabwean customary people deal with you once and for all and we should have the same thing for marriages. Let us give the chiefs their rights. The
Constitution, Hon. Ziyambi you were not here, equally Section 282
(1) (a) gives chiefs the right that to promote sound family values.
Why do we doubt our own chiefs today? –
Hon. Chinotimba has asked what exactly is needed for our chiefs to qualify to be marriage officers. You are going back and forth, you are not giving us straight forward answers, and you are just telling us they are not allowed to charge money. Tell us everything, do not give us piecemeal responses. Can you tell us the exact qualifications which are need for one to be a marriage officer; is it a degree, masters or PHD so that we know? It is not fair for us to pass laws without knowing the conditions.
Any person, before signing a marriage contract is told the implications first, even Hon. Samukange here, a lawyer knows that one needs to be explained to before being operated on by a medical doctor. It is explained to a person the chances of living or dying before going into the theatre. Now, for someone to just say accept and then will explain later, no we cannot say that, we are educated people. People out there will laugh at us that we are just rubber stamping laws that we do not understand.
Today, we have just passed the Standing Rules and Orders yet nobody has seen it. So, should we continue like that. Now we are faced with this one thing only, let us do the proper thing. The laws that we pass incriminate us and we have no clue about them. So, good people wake up.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I think the input of what is there does not require me to be very restrictive and pick the title ‘chiefs as marriage officers in customary law marriages for district’. So, I propose that I will change the title to ‘chiefs as marriage officers for district’ – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- If I do that, we can then leave it as it is and then if they satisfy the prescribed conditions, whether it is civil or customary, they become marriage officers.
Amendment to clause 9 put and agreed to.
Clause 9, as amended, put and agreed to.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Consistent with what I have agreed to, so
that the legislation does not seem to favour ministers of religion. I am proposing that on Clause 10, I include the following amendments so that it will read as follows. The Minister may, at the request of the authority governing any religious denominations or organisations designate in accordance with such conditions as the Minister prescribe any person…”, then it continues. So that it becomes the same with that for the chiefs.
On New Clause 10;
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I am
proposing a new clause 10 which reads as, “every head of an embassy of Zimbabwe in a foreign state or territory or of a diplomatic or consular mission in a foreign state or territory shall, by virtue of his or her office and so long as he or she holds such office, be a marriage officer while on duty at that embassy or mission, and shall exercise the duties of a marriage officer subject to such conditions (including the condition that one of the parties to a proposed marriage must be a Zimbabwean citizen or permanent resident), as the Minister shall prescribe”.
This is consistent with the argument that the Hon. Members were putting as the Minister will prescribe. I know Hon. Mliswa is not happy with the Minister prescribing but we are putting as “The Minister may prescribe” in there so that others may be considered.
So, that is the new Clause 10.
HON. T. MLISWA: I would like to know why Members of
Parliament cannot be marriage officers. Is there any good reason for that?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes, because they are Members of
Parliament therefore, they cannot be marriage officers.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am quite serious. Chiefs are chiefs, head of embassies are there, we represent people, we are Commissioners of Oaths and therefore we are trusted by the people, noone else. So why can we not be marriage officers? We have constituency offices and so forth. We represent the people. We are Commissioners of Oaths and we come from the people because we were chosen by the people.
Why cannot we be marriage officers? We have constituency offices.
Ndiri serious nenyaya iyi.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Every law that is passed in the
country is passed in the National Assembly and taken to the Senate and if the Senate is not happy about it, it will return to the National Assembly so that it is passed properly. Members of Parliament are
Commissioners of Oaths because they take their oath in this august House that they will uphold and abide by the laws of Zimbabwe. It is not being power hungry or being the beaver but if it is me who is passing a law that a chief should be a presiding officer or a marriage officer and others should be given these powers to solemnise marriages, why should we not be allowed to solemnise marriages because we were voted into these offices by the people. We are known at law that we exist as Members of Parliament.
Zimbabwe is the first country to have a female Minister of
Defence and all the other countries followed suit especially in Africa.
There were no female defence ministers. Zimbabwe was the first one. If precedent is to be set by Zimbabwe, then other countries will follow best practice. Why should we not have a scenario where Members of Parliament as Commissioners of Oaths are also marriage officers? We have people that are in London, an Ambassador who is a
Commissioner of Oaths. We have Hon. Chinotimba in Buhera South – why should he not be a Commissioner of Oaths. This is what we are asking the Minister of Justice to look into. We can also be marriage officers. That is the position.
Once I am called upon to go solemnise a marriage in my constituency, I will take my Bible and suit and solemnise the marriage.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I have no problem
with that suggestion except that perhaps the Hon. Members
themselves ngavambotange vachata and then they can become marriage officers.
HON. ZIYAMBI: One good thing that I like about Hon.
Mliswa is that he knows the roles of a parliamentarian and he can articulate it very well. My plea is that let us stick to that role. It does not extend to being marriage officers. We are politicians, we are legislators. We have oversight and now we want to get into issues that will cloud our roles. I think he accepts my position. He just wanted that lighter moment.
*HON CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order. I have been in this Parliament for long enough. I once said all Members of Parliament must have diplomatic passports and everyone laughed at me but later on they now have diplomatic passports. I want to remind the Leader of the House whether he still recalls that everyone laughed at me and during that time, it was the reign of the late President Mugabe. The former President then said Chinotimba, why do you require these red passports. The new dispensation realised that Members of Parliament should have diplomatic passports. I do not know if there is anyone without a diplomatic passport.
Most people were taken aback as to why we needed red passports when we travel. I just wanted to remind the Hon Minister if he remembers that. If Hon Mliswa has made suggestion in this august House then he should answer to that. Once a Member of Parliament makes a point, he is making it on behalf of all Members of Parliament just as I am saying. May you just respond to that question? I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: We exercise three things on oversight.
Oversight over what? Oversight is specific. Firstly, we have oversight over Government departments and agencies at every level. It is pretty clear. The issue of being a marriage officer becomes convenient for a person. They have a choice. We are not saying huya kwandiri. The chief is there. The councillor is there. I can even extend to say the Chairman of Rural Council. The more we have the better so that people have a choice.
In the Constitution we have freedom of association. We cannot infringe on people’s rights. When you talk about oversight, I do not know when Parliament ever sat down to have oversight over a divorce. I do not know when. Maybe somebody can remind me because what are the repercussions of that oversight. We now go deeper into analysing. As far as I am concerned, you are just doing your job the same way you represent the people. They come to your office, the same way you are a Commissioner of Oaths. You might as well not be that. I am just trying to address that this is something that brings variety which is convenient.
On the aspect of Parliament having an oversight, I do not see anything, in fact we have even gone further by saying Members of Parliament too and I was speaking to one of the law enforcement agents who said in other countries, a Member of Parliament can stop illegal things happening in your constituency and police can come. So there must be that provision because we are the ones who come across these problems. If you abuse that power, it can be revoked. There is also a provision for the Minister to say no, you cannot once it is signed. While it gives, it can also take. He exercises oversight as a Minister that is why we are giving it to him. His role is to see whether marriage officers are doing the right things or not.
This is my contribution that the aspect of oversight does not stick in this aspect at all. The Minister has oversight. If Hon Mliswa has done something wrong which goes against the marriage officer’s compliance, it is revoked. People get more from the MP than anybody else. The problem with this country is that everything that Ministers do, they want to leave Members of Parliament even in their constituencies. We have that bad habit which we must stop.
Hon Ziyambi, you are an MP yourself but you go to peoples constituencies without them knowing. Would you like the same to happen to you? That is why in Norton they know if you come ndinoronga vapfanha vangu nemadzimai anoita zvakaoma. Ndosaka vachinditaura kuti uku hakupindike. I represent the people and I want to know what is happening in my constituency not because we make money but it is even expensive to gather people. When you want to address a rally, you look for us. Let us speak the truth in this second republic. This is my contribution that the aspect of oversight does not stick in this aspect at all. The Minister has oversight. If Hon. Mliswa has done something wrong which goes against the marriage officer’s compliance, it is revoked. The point is it is convenient for people; people get more through the Member of Parliament than anybody
else.
The problem in this country is that everything that Ministers do they want to leave Members of Parliament even in their own constituencies. We have that bad habit which we must stop. Hon. Ziyambi you were a Member of Parliament but you go into people’s constituencies without them knowing. Would you like the same to happen to you? I have men and women in my Constituency who alert me when such a thing happens. I want to know what is happening in my Constituency because I represent the people and it is not because I make money from it. It is actually expensive. When you need to address people you, you ask us to mobilise them. Why do you not do it on your own?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon.
Chinotimba is right that when I respond I should not personalise that it is Hon. Mliswa who knows. I accept that I should not personalise issues. The issue of red passports and solemnisation of marriages are two different ball games altogether. I do not know why some of you were laughing that Members of Parliament (MPs) should not be given diplomatic passports, especially when MPs are conducting their representative roles outside the country, they need to be respected just like the others that would have visited, that is slightly different.
The solemnisation of marriages, I am in disagreement with the advocacy that MPs should be marriage officers. What we deem fit are those specified in this Bill – once they have been given the necessary education to be able to solemnise marriages. MPs are not defined as public or civil servants. The laws that we have do not bring you into that scenario. You only come into that as parliamentarians. You are associated with politics. Whilst we open this solemnisation of marriages to all MPs, we would have misdirected ourselves. The laid down regulations that should be followed – MPs that are here are the one that should approve the requirements and have oversight and ensure that it is properly done. We would have become the judge,
jury and the executor. This becomes difficult for oversight to be exercised. The Minister supervises Government workers or civil/public servants and there are regulations that guide their operations.
Those that are led by church organisations can go to the chiefs because of their circumstances, they should be assisted but those that are responsible for carrying oversight should not be players. We will have seriously misdirected ourselves. I urge this august House that we leave the issue of MPs becoming marriage officers in abeyance. We have a lot of work and duties to do and it takes a lot of money to be able to perform our duties. We should not further burden ourselves by bringing on board this role or function of being marriage officers. Let us use the persons we have stipulated. Once we see that they are failing to discharge, then we review the situation and maybe call MPs on board. Currently, MPs have a lot of work to do and they have a dignified duty to perform. They should not be involved as marriage officers. I thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: I have heard what you have said Hon. Minister but the thing is that laws have been passed and broken. At the end of the day, we are responsible for it. We were talking about it being convenient for the people – even boards in other countries cannot be appointed by the Minister. It is Parliament that appoints those boards, because ultimately we have oversight but there is something sticking in this aspect – that is the reason why when you talk about MPs not being the right people, my argument is why should the Minister also appoint when he must have oversight.
That is why we talk about a board – when the board is wrong, the Minister fires the board but if the Minister is wrong, what happens? We have a situation which must stop in this country where Ministers do more than enough. They appoint boards in and out. Whoever Minister brings in a board – why is that so? It is because they want to control boards yet they do not want others to control. The same vein as Hon. Ziyambi talked about MPs recusing themselves. May you also start by recusing yourself from the person they apply to and apply to board?
Then we have proper governance – governance cannot be one sided. At the end of the day, the majority will have their share but those who have ears have heard what I am saying. Even the Minister should not be there – what if he wakes up and he is not in good books with his wife. What will happen to his mood and yet he has applied? We do not want this to be controlled by emotions because a Minister is also a human being and anything can happen. We must not be seen to be appointing.
If I am a pastor and an MP, will you not accept me to be a marriage officer? Which law would bar me from becoming a marriage officer?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Mliswa is saying the truth that cannot be easily accepted as the truth. All the laws that we pass should, there should be a responsible minister to administer the Act to enable enforcement of that Act. If there is a law that deals that deals with the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation – whether we say that the board should be appointed by Parliament we would have lost the foundation to enable the country to develop properly if we say that Ministers should not administer Acts – we become lawlessness because there will no accountability.
The Minister does not have oversight over the board but has supervisory role since he is the one who administers that particular Act so that there is smooth flow of operations. Parliament will then come in and observe and see if the Minister is doing the proper thing through oversight of the executive. We should not have such an attitude that because we have removed the Member of Parliament, we should also remove the accountability from the Minister. No, that should not be the case. If I am from a particular board I should not go there and execute. There are regulations that are there that need to be followed as one administers the Act, I would then take the board to task as to why they did not follow the three laid down procedures.
There should also be a provision that we set this board aside and then we appoint those that will ensure that the board functions properly. That he has mentioned that he is a Member of Parliament who also happens to be a pastor, this is a good issue, but then he says that we should not belittle the chiefs and we are in agreement with him. We should not talk of prescribed conditions that will be looked into when you apply. So if you are a pastor and you now want to become a Member of Parliament, even if you are no longer able to perform certain functions at your church, there are certain things in the country that you cannot do. You cannot become a marriage officer because you are now a Member of Parliament and in terms of the regulations, although you did indicate that you are a Member of Parliament - then you should not become greedy and become one in all. I thank you Mr. Chair.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Sorry Hon. Chair lest it be misconstrued that we are fighting against Hon. Ziyambi, we are not, we are merely opening him up to these views. We are not saying that he is wrong, we are opening his mind. There were certain Ministers who would appoint a board made up from the people from their province and you would find 10 people coming from the same province.
We are not saying that the Minister should not appoint but we are pointing out that there are certain appointments that are not proper. Just talk about the previous Local Government Ministry, you will see that there were appointments to the ZUPCO Board being one sided. It was only Mashonaland West throughout. You are now saying so and so was corrupt but the last time we were not talking about it.
It does not work that once I leave this august House as a Member of Parliament you then will follow me up and say I was corrupt during my term as a Member of Parliament. He was not saying we should not appoint boards, but he says these are some of the things that are being overlooked – my nephew, my friend, we were together at the university and we do such things. You then chased away Zhanda after the new dispensation because you had seen that this had become too much. This is what Hon. Mliswa is saying. Hon. Mliswa did not say that you should do that, he said you must also take into consideration because some of these things, you are the ones who sit with the President in Cabinet. When you sit in Cabinet we will not be there.
We are saying the truth here and not as the opposition. We do not day in day out want to hear things about corruption. We want to go there to our constituencies that everyone votes for us and our
President once and for all. All those that are writing are saying ZANU PF is now saying the truth, it is the new dispensation and it is furthering the endeavors of the new dispensation. We do not want these boards that are appointed on nepotism and all the other isms. We want boards that are transparently appointed. Thank you Hon. Chair. I thought that I should hammer that point so that you would understand very well that we are not worried about the manner in which people appointed to boards but is should be done in a transparent and professional manner. We wanted him to understand what exactly it is that we wanted. We are passing a Bill but it will get there.
HON. T. MLISWA: Minister, with due respect on the aspect of Government you cannot appoint and administer, it has never worked like that ever. There are rules which are always set which allow administration to happen whether you are there or not and we must be backed by rules and laws, not individuals. That is all I wanted to say.
*HON. MASENDA: Mr. Speaker, I am saying this is akin to a football match. The players because they know much about football, should abide by the rules. If one is shown a red card, the rule says that they should go out of the field of play. Members of Parliament should confine themselves to their duties of law making and should leave the rest to the implementers, thereafter we then see whether oversight is properly taken.
HON. T. MLISWA: I think we have made our points clear. You are coming late. It is a debate which we can have all day. Isu vamwe takatotemerwa nyora dzenharo kusvika mangwana handizvo here, but the Minister spoke and we came to an agreement together with the Chair so I do not know why you are bringing it up again. You now want to bootlick and give the impression that Chinotimba was wrong.
I am going to remonstrate with you because I was once ZANU
- We said this is wrong and that Hon. Chinotimba said the correct thing. We have already talked about it. Why would he want to stand up here so that he comes here and buttress the provincial chairpersons form Mashonaland West to be bootlicking. You are an elderly person, you should not be bootlicking. We are through with this debate so what is he trying to come up with.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Mliswa.
*HON. MASENDA: I need your protection Mr. Speaker Sir. I also have a right to be heard as an Hon. Member. I need the Chairpersons protection; I have the right to be heard. All I am saying is that once we have passed a law in this august House, we should not go and be the implementers of that law because once there are problems with that particular law, it becomes difficult for us to then become referees in our own match – [HON. T. MLISWA: I withdraw my remarks Mr. Chair, that Members should become commissioners of oath and marriage officers after I had been enlightened by Hon.
Ziyambi, so there is no point for debate.] – I am talking about – [HON. T. MLISWA: Ndawithdrawer] – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. T. MLISWA:
Inaudible interjection.] –
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: He has withdrawn,
so there is no more debate – [HON. T. MLISWA: That is the law.
Endai munodzidz,a ndazvidira jecha endai kuchikoro.] –
*HON. MASENDA: I thank you, the withdrawal came after I had started debating. Thank you Hon. Chair.
Amendment to Clause 10 put and agreed to.
Clause 10, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 11:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Hon. Chair. I just wanted to indicate as I earlier said. Before we reverted, I had made an error that I would need the insertion on this clause to say, ‘as prescribed by the Minister,’ so that it becomes consistent with every other marriage officer.
Amendment to Clause 11 put and agreed to.
Clause 11, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 12 to 15 put and agreed to.
On Clause 16;
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Clause 16 (1) speaks
to the issue of solemnisation of a marriage where a man takes to wife, the widow or widows of deceased relatives. We have been fighting for a long time about this particular cultural practice of wife inheritance. Why are we now dignifying it and putting it in our legislation? If they do meet and decide that they want to get married, then they meet like any other couple but for us in this century to actually take that provision and legitimise it and put it in an Act is really problematic. If we look at our African protocols around women, it actually talks a lot around issues of wife inheritance and the problems that it has caused in communities. This is because we have generally said we should not dignify the issue of wife inheritance.
Surely, can we sit here and begin to make a provision for people to inherit wives? I cannot believe it genuinely. If these people meet elsewhere like any other couple and decide to get married, whether it is a brother of the deceased man or otherwise, let it just happen naturally. Why on earth are we now putting it in our legislation? I am shocked to say the least.
HON. DR. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Mr.
Chairman. I am not sure if the Hon. Member is implying that the practice has been stopped altogether. If it has not been stopped, what this clause is saying is that it is about customary marriages including where such practice has taken place. As long as we have not completely repealed or come up with a law that abolishes the old practice, then it should be included in this case. That is my view. Thank you very much Mr. Chair.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: This is why I am
saying I am actually shocked. One of the issues that we have had and the studies that were carried out in this country have been issues that inheritance has always been associated with seeking sexual rights to the widow. To even say it is a custom is wrong in its own sense because we know that the custom and the tradition that we have always had of inheritance was not associated with inheriting my body.
The culture of wife inheritance was meant to ensure that a woman would have a man looking after the children and not to have sexual favours from me. If I refuse to bed that particular individual, I then suffer the consequences of inheritance. It is the beginning of most of the problems that we have. For us in this century to seriously sit down and say – I am not saying kugara nhaka kune problem…
*Hon. Chair, inheritance simply means that you will be the custodian of the family and not that you are going to give him sexual favours. Wife inheritance - you will then have a situation whereby if you do not give him sexual favours you are chased away from the matrimonial home and can no longer stay in the homestead. Should the two meet and become interested in one another then they should behave naturally and take their affair to the next level and I have no problem with that.
HON. MATANGAIDZE: I want us to read the clause very closely. The clause says, “every marriage contracted according to customary law including the case where…” – so my question was very simple - is the practice still going on or have we abolished the practice? We are not talking about what happens behind doors in the bedroom, whether she has been inherited for whatever reason but it is included in this clause and we are saying that customary marriage should be solemnised before the appropriate marriage officer. That is all we are saying. Whatever is going to happen behind the walls is not our business. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga is
saying that in terms of wife inheritance, once someone has been inherited as a wife she then becomes someone’s wife. Once that man dies the wife should inherit such property because she is now someone’s wife. There is no way you can have wife inheritance and have a child with that particular woman. When the man dies; you then say no, you were inherited as a wife, you can no longer have part of the property - I thought this is what she is asking for.
Hon. Chair, forced marriage is a different game all together. If there has been wife inheritance and the parties are in agreement, it is okay. Once the wife or the husband dies, the property should be shared equally. Once the husband dies and was married to a wife that has been inherited, the wife then becomes a beneficiary regardless of the fact that the woman was inherited. The deceased’s wife must share the property with the inherited wife. You should have conjugal rights also granted. How one can conceive without conjugal rights being exercised? If one is inherited as a wife, it means that you are accepting that particular woman, you are not forced. You are given some water in a dish and then you give it to someone. Once the man accepts, it is alright. Most of the women are given to their late husband’s brother and it is acceptable. If there is any wealth that is there, it should be shared properly and that is what wife inheritance is all about. I thought that is what she was passionate about.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Can we read it
properly so that we do not start telling stories. Every marriage contracted according to customary law including the case where a man takes to wife the widow of a deceased relative shall be solemnised before the appropriate marriage officer of the district. Let us assume that is what we want to do, which is bad. Why are you talking about a widow? You should also talk about a widower. Why is it that inheritance is only related to the woman in the relationship?
So women are properties to be inherited and you men are not properties? This is wrong in every essence. Marriage is about a man and a woman and if in a provision you are going to say it is about a wife, it means you are limiting that marriage in the context of a particular wife. Please remove it, it is a bad provision and horrible.
*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you very much. Let me say that wife inheritance has always been in practice but the manner in which we were doing it was wrong. We should have Bills that give women fair footage. Did you question people about this clause? How can we pass this clause? Did the public make submissions on this particular one?
If this man is interested in the widow, where is this man’s wife? The woman has been in monogamous marriage. Now, why do you want to allow this widow to then come and become a second wife? Where did this clause come from? We never raised it with the people, so why should this clause be favouring men? My perception is that this clause was not taken to the people, so it must be removed from the Bill. Women are saying the clause should not be included. Our husbands are going to be taken. When the man does not have another wife, it is okay but for as long as you will be a second wife, no! I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hatiide, hatiide!] -
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Hon. Chair. This Bill is the Bill that was gazetted. The amendments are on the Order Paper that we are proposing, so this is the Bill that was taken to the people. There is nothing that was smuggled in. It was gazetted and if you go and download it, you will find that it is exactly in this format. However, let me explain something. The heading of this clause is ‘Solemnisation of Customary Law
Marriages’.
*Now Hon. Chair, if a man or if a woman has lost his or her spouse, the woman should not come and say I have now come here to inherit this husband, this is our custom. We are talking about our customary marriages and how they used to be conducted. This is now what we are advocating for, that the chiefs as they administer the issue of inheritance, no woman will go to a man who has lost a wife that she now wants to become the wife to this man so that she can have five husbands. No, but this is very specific. If I have lost my brother and I have a marriage that allows me to have several wives, my brother Temba knows this, that if my young brother dies and Hon. Mliswa is my young brother, they can come and discuss with my wife. In terms of our tradition, he is given a dish full of water so that he can symbolically wash his hands. It is not done vice-versa where men are subjected to the same. This is a custom, a practice that we are talking about. These are people that are already in polygamous marriages that we are making reference to and you go further and say what the Chairperson of the Justice Portfolio Committee has said, we are saying those that practice wife inheritance, we want to protect the woman who has now been inherited and that particular union or where the wife has been inherited, she must be registered so that this woman becomes married to the new husband.
If there are property distribution issues, she is also included and she has now become part of the Ziyambi family. That is what we are trying to ring-fence that she should not be excluded as a wife that has been inherited like what Hon. Chinotimba was saying. Hon. Chair, I would want to address the issue that they have mentioned in terms of civil marriages that it is not illegal for a single man; if my brother dies and I go and propose love to my brother’s wife – it is acceptable.
In terms of our culture, what we should be discussing at this point in time is whether we still want wife inheritance and we should go to our traditional leaders and tell them that people are no longer interested in wife inheritance. If there are still customary marriages in this Bill, we should continue practicing wife inheritance. I am done thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: I want to say that I have powers to ensure that Parliament adjourns. I am appealing to you the Chief Whip to call back your Members so that we have sufficient numbers. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIR (HON. ZIYAMBI): Some Hon.
Members are in the Senate because of social distancing.
HON. MISIHAIRAMBWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very
much Hon. Chair. I am glad that the Minister has brought it to our attention that we really need to talk about this tradition. This tradition is not speaking about our custom – can we get it clear? There is no custom that speaks to wife of anything. Our custom speaks to you taking responsibility as musarapavana which has been bastardised by men who take advantage of that situation knowing that a woman is in a position where she cannot negotiate because she knows if she does not agree to be a wife, she would lose whatever is there.
So, let us not lie to each other about these things. We know that we have made a decision in the same Marriages Bill to say anyone who marries somebody who is less than 18 years, that marriage is null and void. We know that there are circumstances in which somebody has already been married and she is 16 years. We have not legitimised that in this particular Bill. We have not discussed that which is a real issue, that this child could have been 16 years and she could be living with this person and she now has two or three kids in that relationship.
We have not dealt with that issue. It remains a problematic area but we have not come back to this Bill and say we solemnised a marriage for somebody who was married when she was under age.
We have not said that because in principle, we want to make sure that that particular tradition is not acceptable. If the men in this House want to convince us that wife inheritance is a good custom, they should stand up and say so and they should say it is a good custom because that is not our tradition.
I do not know a tradition that says you need to take a wife of your deceased relative – it does not exist in our custom. It is men who have started playing around with it to do whatever they want to do. Do not lie to us and if you just want it just because you are men and you want to run around and inherit wives left, right and centre, say so but do not give us this nonsense about saying it is a tradition.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, allow me to respond to Hon.
Misihairabwi’s contribution in our mother tongue. Clause 16 talks about our customary marriages. What we are trying to say is that we know that in our tradition, there is wife inheritance. She sits on a reed mat and she is invited to give a dish of water to whoever they love and they will do that. Once that position has been taken, we now want that woman to go and appear before a marriage officer, whether it is a magistrate or anyone else – you are asked as to whether you love this particular man.
The problem that we have is should we remove this clause as it is. Women are going to be forced into wife inheritance but because of this Bill that we are coming up with, we are saying all marriages should be registered. If it is customary law, I should go and register the wife that I have inherited in terms of the Marriages Act so that it becomes law and that one becomes legal and the marriage is solemnised and valid.
All I am saying is that we are not changing our culture as regards that wife inheritance issue but we are saying as of now, we want to ensure that wives that are going to be inherited will have solemnised marriages that are registered so that all the women in a polygamous marriage are recognised legally that they belong to the family of Ziyambi. This is a progression in our legislation. We are also trying to safeguard the rights of the wife that has been inherited.
*HON. KWARAMBA: We are talking about wife inheritance
that a wife has lost the husband and in our culture, there is the issue of wife inheritance and the processes are taken where she sits on the reed mat and she is asked who she is interested in. If she wants to have the late husband’s brother and they have fallen in love and are agreeable, the woman is not forced into marriage or to be inherited by anyone. I can either give my late husband’s brother or I could give to my aunt. What it simply means is that I have accepted that I will remain with the family and that this young brother of my husband will then become the father figure.
*HON. KWARAMBA … will then become a father figure.
Mtukudzi sang that inheritance does not mean that there are conjugal rights inherent in it. If my husband dies and I do not love his young brother, I cannot be forced to fall in love with him. If I fall in love with his young brother and we are in agreement saying that we should exercise conjugal rights, fair and fine.
*HON. MADHUKU: Thank you Hon. Chair. My view as
regards the debate, the most difficult issue is the issue of inheritance. In the case of a woman who would have lost her husband, what we should be looking at is a law that says once a wife has lost a husband, she should not be forced into being inherited or into the inheritance that is due to her. It means that I am advocating that if a wife has lost her husband, there should be proper distribution of the estate. If she wants to be inherited as a wife, distribution of the estate should be properly done. Thereafter, if she falls in love and gets married to another person, the marriage could be solemnised. That would be the second stage. The woman should be protected throughout the stages of inheritance issue. Firstly, inheritance of the property from the deceased estate and secondly that once she has gone into a new marriage, she should be protected legally.
I would want to support the point that once there has been a death in the family in terms of our culture, the woman is free to choose whoever she wants. In most cases, we even see old women; they pick up the dish and they give it to their son as the person who is going to be the father figure. It means that he is going to be the custodian of the family. No one is forced to go into a marriage. The woman should be protected that she should choose whoever she wants. She must be protected because I will go behind the scenes and have illegitimate children with her. I support that she should be protected and that there should be a marriage that is solemnised so as to protect her. I thank you.
*HON. NYATHI: Hon. Chair, I wanted clarity on one issue because there is some disparity. There is wife inheritance and the caretaker. The one that we call “sarapavana” is the caretaker. If I die, my wife has a right to say she wants to remarry or not. When there is going to be a distribution of the estate, she can sit on the reed mat and she is invited to choose a husband of her choice. If she wants the practice of wife inheritance, it is her choice to make as to whether she would want to remarry or not. If she does not want to remarry, she will pick up the dish full of water and give it to her late husband’s sister or her own child. This means that she wants to stay in the family but she does not want to have a relationship where conjugal rights are going to be exercised. That is the understanding. It means that the Bill that is before us, if we go deeper with it, it is not disadvantaging my wife. In fact, it is giving my wife an advantage that in the event that she so decides that she wants to have another marriage and she wants to marry in the same family, she should now get married in that same family. She is now going to be protected by having a marriage certificate so that in the event that the husband that would have inherited her has died, she will have other rights to the distribution of that new husband’s estate. What it means is that we are now protecting the widow. She has a choice to even marry within the family or outside the family. It is in terms of the family law but we are looking at it with a bias towards the family umbrella. I thank you.
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga having stood up to debate.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, according to our Standing
Orders, they prohibit tedious and repetitive arguments. I think Hon. Nyathi has summed it up according to our customary laws and we cannot deviate from that. If we want to debate on the appropriateness of the custom, it is not the appropriate forum. We then have to have another forum where we debate on whether the custom is still relevant. For our purposes, when we are talking about customary marriages and how wife inheritance is done, I think Hon. Nyathi has done justice to it. Otherwise we are going to go in circles, showcasing our debating skills without going anywhere. So, I move that we move forward and adopt this clause. I thank you.
Clause 16 put and agreed to.
Clauses 17 to 19 put and agreed to.
On Clause 20;
HON. T. MLISWA: May the Chief Whip whip Members to come back.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I
seek leave that we report progress and seek permission to sit again.
Motion put and agreed to.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 27th May, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL
AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS, (HON. ZIYAMBI), the
House adjourned at Seven Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 20th May, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
CONFIGURATION OF ICT TABLETS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to
inform the Senate that all Hon. Senators are requested to submit their tablets to the ICT Department for further software configurations. The ICT officers will be stationed in the courtyard during sitting hours.
Hon. Sen. Mohadi on behalf of the Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs having moved a notice of motion that the 2020 Edition of Standing Orders of the Senate be adopted.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am advised
that the Standing Orders in question have been forwarded to the Members’ E-mails. I hope and I am sure you will be able to open and peruse them.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I move that
Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st May, 2020.
MOTION
ABOLITION OF THE DEATH PENALTY
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on repeal of the death sentence and the provisions in the Criminal Law and Codification
Act and other Statutes.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I want to add my voice to the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Makone and seconded by Hon. Sen. Mwonzora. This is a very painful motion because the death penalty, we discussed this in the Thematic Committee of Human Rights as Senators. We also considered it and realised that it is a painful issue. Sometimes people end up being sentenced for crimes that they did not commit. It is better for someone to be given life imprisonment than for one to be sentenced to death. We also realised that no one wants to kill other people. The vacancy of a hangman is still there, it is difficult to commit murder because it does not give you peace of mind. Each time you work up as a prisoner and you find that your death day has not come. You can spend 10 years and that is torture and after those many years your death day has not come. So it means that after those many years you are in trouble and you are already dead. Right now, no one wants to be a hangman because of the challenges associated with being a hangman. I think the death penalty has to be abolished and it is better that someone is given a life sentence and serves a jail term for the crime committed. It is painful for one to be given a death sentence when you are not guilty, so I think that the death penalty should be abolished. With these few words, I thank you Mr. President. *HON. SEN. KHUPE: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to support the motion and to add my words on the motion raised by Hon. Makone and seconded by Hon. Mwonzora. Firstly, I speak as someone who has lost a relative due to murder right now. My biological mother was murdered and the witness who is here is Hon. Chief Masendu.
What pushed me to talk on this matter is that, let us not rush and say that the death penalty must be abolished because we need to get opinions of those who have lost their relatives through murder. I think that we need to set up a committee where all those who lost their relatives through murder - who were murdered, raped or even murdered by armed robbers should give their opinions. If those people hear that the Government has said that once you murder someone you must be given life imprisonment, I do not think that it will go down well with them. How are we supposed to feel when we have lost our relatives to murder?
So on that note, I think that we need to consider it because the people who are awaiting the death sentence, do you know that they are living and feeding on taxpayers’ money which is contributed by a person whose relative was murdered? They even get medical attention. They should not die hence they get medical attention to continue living yet they murdered others. Is it a good initiative for the Government to raise taxes to feed people who are on death sentence? Is this not a motivation that a person says, even if a girl who is pregnant and refuses to marry him, he wants to kill her bearing in mind that he can only spend 30 years in jail since His Excellency will give another amnesty and he will be released after 40 years. He can still get an elderly woman to stay with but what of those who lost their relatives?
I think it is a challenge as others can be accused of murder which they did not commit due to false and limited investigations and also because of corruption that is now rampant among our investigation officers. You find that the person who actually committed the murder is left scot-free and continues to murder innocent people.
The judiciary will judge according to whatever information that they are given. They will not be at fault but the challenge is on things like investigations, medical examinations and other processes. If we do not address that issue, I think death sentence should remain in place so that whoever commits murder or whoever rapes a child, a pregnant woman or someone disabled should be sentenced to death.
With these few words, that is what I thought I would add. Before I finish Mr. President, as a conclusion, I know that it could not have been the core of the motion, but allow me just one minute to say that there is a misconception on murder of people because of the First Chimurenga. I wanted to say it the other day and I want to say it now. If you read the thesis that was written on Mbuya Nehanda in 1897 by the Roman Catholic Priest, Father Ratzick who was in Chishawasha, Mbuya Nehanda was guillotined in prison. People were being murdered daily from Monday to Friday. They then went to Matabeleland and murdered others. So, Mbuya Nehanda was not hanged on a tree but she was guillotined. You can also access the records of the Catholic Church. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President. I also
want to contribute to the motion on death sentence. I know that long ago our people were murdered by the colonial governments who would kill at their will. So as we proceed, our country is one that has freedom of religion. The God whom we serve is the creator of people and everything on earth.
I want to differ with my colleagues because we need to move away from the death sentence. Death sentence is murder and it is not right.
Our laws say that if you find someone robbing you and you accidentally kill that person; we have courts which deal with the matter and pass on a sentence. So as the august House, if we encourage that whoever commits murder must be given a death sentence, it means that we are going contrary to the word of God. In my opinion, life imprisonment is a good sentence than death penalty. By giving the death sentence, you have also become a murderer and you have sinned before God. We need to fear God as a nation that is governed by our leader, E. D.
Mnangagwa. Death sentence must be abolished. We cannot end the life of anyone because God is the one who created us.
There are people with different cultures and beliefs but I think that a person must be given a sentence. Even if you commit a crime, you are entitled to pay either using cattle or goats. So for that reason Mr.
President, I want to urge my fellow Senators that man was created by God so let us not take life. People of Zimbabwe who died during the war are too many. Therefore, I encourage this House to do away with the death sentence. A person must lose his life because God has allowed it. If God has allowed a person to die in a particular manner, let it be so.
Even a beautiful flower, God also wants it. If a person is evil, that person should not be killed because his day will also come. In conclusion, I say we should do away with the death sentence. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Mr. President.
Allow me to add a few words on this important issue. We are blessed because we are the traditional leaders. We need to go back to the drawing board because there is no new life that is being lived today that was never lived before. In English they say culture is dynamic, but as Africans we do not follow that saying because our traditions and cultures will never be eroded. Let me give an example, if I take your mother, she now has sons in-law. If she puts on a pair of trousers to go to the son inlaw’s house the daughter will ask the mother what will have come over her. But if your wife puts on trousers, you say it is okay. What is the difference between the mother in-law and her daughter? We are the ones changing our traditions and culture. If God put a law that it is not right to take life, why is it that today we want to change that? Those are all influences from the western countries. Mr. President, I am against the death sentence. In the past if a person murdered a man or a boy, the family of the murderer would approach a traditional leader to see how they could solve the issue with the family of the murdered person. The traditional leader would call the other family and those who would have lost their son would ask for conciliation for taking his life. So the chief would tell them how many cattle they had to pay.
After sometime the avenging spirit will say how it wants to be appeased. In most cases the spirit wants a young woman who has to go and have children in the avenging spirit’s family. This is a cultural practice that you cannot run away from. We are saying that this is no longer possible to give our girls to avenging spirits, but if this happens in your family you will be forced to go and solve that matter.
I want to give an example of the issue mentioned by one of our legislators. In our area it also happened. My grandfather was a king and he had a very beautiful daughter. They lived with the king’s nephew who loved the king’s daughter. However, the girl was in love with the boy who was herding cattle for the king. The nephew was not pleased with the fact that his cousin was in love with a servant and not him. So he plotted to kill the servant and on one particular day he invited the servant to go hunting with him. He took the dog and a gun and when they got into the forest he shot the servant and buried him. When he came back he reported that he had missed him and looked for him everywhere but he did not find him.
So they lived for some years then the avenging spirit came seeking to be appeased and wreaked havoc in the king’s household. There were mysterious illnesses and deaths of children in that house until the king went to enquire from the gods what the cause was. They were informed of the murder of one of their servants and when they later sat down as a family the grandchild who had murdered the servant owned up to having committed the murder. They then sought the way forward and they were told to pay ten cows and a young woman. The king did not think it possible to take the young girl from his own children. He then told his extended family and asked them to give them a woman. They refused because they said the murder had been committed in their household and the daughter should come from there.
What then happened is that the spirit started talking and the king took the 10 cows and his youngest daughter. No one knew where the murdered servant came from and it was difficult to ascertain where the appeasement could be taken. After enquiring with spirit mediums, they were told to take the cows and the woman to a river and ask the spirit medium to take the payment to the home of the deceased. This happened and the cows and the woman came to Uzumba. Those who had their son murdered accepted the payment.
What the avenging spirit requires is that if you are paid to avenge a spirit, you need to bear a child for the spirit to release you. The girl said no, I will get there and ensure that they get their cattle and I will go my own way. So she fell in love with someone else whilst under the custody of the murdered person’s family and that was a challenge for the king. It is a long story but of the four men who married her, none of them lived a long life because they were being told they had taken someone’s wife.
What I am trying to say Mr. President is that we have one king. If we have the death penalty, our cultural system does not allow the death penalty but we are saying culture is dynamic and we believe that the female or the girl-child cannot be paid to avenge spirits. This was done by traditional leaders. The President is a traditional leader. We are also traditional leaders and we put the cultural norms and values, and we are saying we do not want any foreign practices. God has said do not kill and we as traditional chiefs are saying do not kill. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: I want to thank you Mr. President for the opportunity that you have given me to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Senator Makone that seeks to abolish the death penalty for people who will have committed murder. Firstly, I want to remind this House of what the Bible say since all of us are aware of the fact that our nation is a Christian country and whatever we do is premised on the Bible.
So as we follow Christianity, the very same Bible, I do not remember the reference but the Bible says everyone born of a woman has a few days here on earth. Meaning that we will all die. It is not said that he will die and it is not written that if he kills he must also be killed but he will die at his appointed time by God. So we should not sentence anyone to death because God has already said everyone has a few days on earth. I am sure you are aware of the fact that in the whole world, most people who are smartly dressed, for you to see someone is a Christian, you can see from the knees. People spend time kneeling in prayer.
People worshipped Jesus Christ who was crucified by the Jews. Today we kneel and worship him, what it means is that if you murder someone, you will end up worshipping that person. Avenging spirits are there and the avenging spirit is the one that determines the life of the murderer. The Chief took words from my mouth because he talked about culture that in our cultural practice, the avenging spirit did not seek to murder or kill the person who will have committed murder. If you have
a demon that needs to be appeased, you are told to go and appease the avenging spirit then come and pray without the avenging spirit because the prophet cannot chase away the avenging spirit.
As the august House, we should not go beyond what the Bible says because when the prophet is speaking, he will be under the spirit of the Lord. When he says that go and appease the avenging spirits, then after that you can come back and worship God. It means that is what is supposed to be done. I was happy to hear the Chief say that is our culture.
I heard one of the Senators saying Mbuya Nehanda was murdered but it is also good for history. I remember during the war, we heard that Mbuya Nehanda said that my bones rise. You can kill me but my spirit will live on and for sure, the spirit lived on and they failed to appease her spirit. So, it is something that should be respected. We should not kill other people because the avenging spirit will come and if that spirit comes after we are gone, who is going to appease that spirit? If the avenging spirit comes for payback; once we kill the person who has committed murder, it means someone else will have to appease that spirit. That is why we are saying we should abolish the death penalty.
I want to conclude by giving an example. In our rural areas, you know that is where the liberation struggle commenced before it spread to Harare and so many people lost their lives. There is one who died in the battle as a comrade and disappeared and no one knew the whereabouts of the comrade. There is an animal called ‘chihudo’ and the animal lived in a deep cave. So this animal saw the bones that still had some bit of flesh on them and took the bones into the cave until all the bones had been taken to the deepest part of the cave and that preserved the remains of the comrade.
So one person decided to go and hunt for game in the forest and he took his dogs and left. The dogs got hold of that animal and killed it. So the man took his kill home and prepared it for the evening meal. Before they slept, the avenging spirit started speaking through the man’s youngest daughter saying that, ‘You have eaten me and need to pay back’. So they went to the traditional leader and asked where the avenging spirit was coming from. The avenging spirit started what he wanted to be paid back. He asked for a wife, traditional beer, five beer pots to go with and some cash. When they got to the avenging spirit’s home area – after being led by the particular spirit, the avenging spirit left the girl and possessed the child of the deceased’s brother. The spirit informed its family that he was the one who had sent these people and said that this was the wife that he had been given. He told them to accept the money that he asked them to pay back for his murder.
So the avenging spirit ended up telling the family of the deceased that no, the family that had brought him home was not responsible for killing him but were here because they had killed an animal that was looking after his remains, hence he wanted someone to pay back. So as they went with these things, they received a wife and when they returned home, they went back with a wife because the avenging spirit realised that it was unfair to make these people pay for his death yet they had not murdered him.
So the avenging spirit is the one that should fight for it to be avenged rather than for us to create these avenging spirits whilst we are still living. The person who was murdered should come back on his/her own and avenge for his death. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Thank you Mr. President. Let me take this opportunity to thank Hon. Sen. Makone who moved this motion that was seconded by Hon. Sen. Mwonzora.
Yes, Mr. President, it is painful to lose a loved one through murder and you live to see the murderer day in day out living on the same street as you but as the chief has said, our African culture has its own norms and values. In Zimbabwe, we are a peace loving country and a Christian nation too. So I want to say that at times what pains us can lead us to come up with legislation that is not right for us and our upcoming generations.
I want to say that the Lord that we worship in Zimbabwe says that, he is the Lord of all battles – if you have wronged me, God says that he will deal with the generations in my family. We, as those who are supposed to be given judgment by God, are in no position to give judgment because God is the one who gives a befitting judgment to the sin committed against us by anyone. I also want to say that if we consider the western countries that came up with the death penalty, they also are considering and reviewing the death penalty because they have realised that what they were doing was wrong.
So when we consider the judgment of a murderer, it can be wrong in the sense that I am using my own opinion and if my opinion tells me that whatever I have been given - I will use Hon. Sen. Tsomondo as an example that probably Hon. Sen. Tsomondo is guilty basing on the evidence that has been given. I do not have concrete evidence but I am merely using my judgment. So judgment can be meted on an innocent person and it becomes biased.
In my opinion, it then becomes a sentence without justice because it is now considered whether or not someone can afford to engage lawyers and with rampant corruption, anything can happen. A murderer can be left to go scot free because you can be found to be not guilty and yet you are guilty. So I think we need to leave it all to the Lord to give the final judgment. God gave us an example when his son was crucified, he did not kill those who killed his son but Jesus Christ avenged his own death. So we should know that God says that he will deal with us up to the third and fourth generations in our families.
Our President is always saying, he knows God and fears God. He has been on record for saying that death penalty is not good. If we take someone who has been given the death penalty and isolate him, that can assist us so that the aggrieved party will not see him. This will help to lessen the hurt and pain that they feel due to loss of a relative or a loved one. Even when amnesty is offered, those serving life sentences should not be released. I think that is the sentence that we give. My opinion is that since the death penalty is still part of our legislation, it is because we have a President and we have people who are in jail who are supposed to be killed but we are saying we need to expedite and review this legislation to ensure that those who will have killed and evidence is proven to be there that they have killed then they should be given life in prison and not be privileged to any amnesty. I want to thank Hon. Sen.
Makone, I think we need to abolish the death penalty. I thank you Mr.
President.
HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Makone and seconded by Hon. Sen. Mwonzora. I want to say that when Jesus Christ was crucified, he said ‘forgive them for they know not what they do’ but he is the one who was being crucified.
I want to give an example of what happened in our area Chisumba in Manicaland. A man was murdered by soldiers from Mozambique, the Matsangas. They left him dead on the road. Another person who I believe had some other motive passed by. This man went and took the private parts of the murdered person. In 1986 when I lost my father, that is when I got to know of this matter. The man who took the dead person’s private parts came with a traditional healer and it is said that the dead person’s spirit – the death of a person and cows can never be equated. The spirit of the person whose private parts were taken led him to Chief Sembezeya in his home area. We went there because we were told that there was a prophet who had come and so we attended the court. We found him on his own being engrossed with an avenging spirit. When this man got to the king’s court, the chief requested that they go and look for the deceased’s relatives. So they came and the avenging spirit started speaking through the murderer. Here, I will cite the names because i witnessed that. It said, ‘my name is Mabel Mashuma. I was murdered by the Matsangaise. The person through whom I am talking right now is not my murderer but he took my private parts.’ The spirit said that in his clan I am the only one left. So I have asked him to come and look for my relatives and come through Chief
Sambezeya.’
The relatives came and said that they could not accept this person because their relative had been dead for many years. If he was the one then he ought to identify any person that he knew. The spirit started identifying the people, ‘this is so and so my brother.’ There were 13 of them and he identified all of them through that spirit. The relatives then accepted that their relative had come back through the spirit. The spirit went on to say that it had requested that the person should bring 15 herds of cattle. On top of that, there was some money and he took out the sack of money. The king’s people counted the money and said it was not enough, so the spirit said if the money was not enough, the money should be returned to him. It said, ‘I will go back with him until he comes with my money in full. I am giving him two months to return.
His father’s brother who is there will also die if he does not do these things.’
Mr. President, my request is that we should abolish the death penalty. It should be totally removed. The issue of killing someone is something that is solved through the murderer and the murdered family. If someone is sentenced for murder, he should be given life imprisonment. If a country has a company that is not properly registered for it to employ people then it is not a good company. The fact that we do not have anyone wishing to be a hangman, there is a challenge. So Mr. President, death penalty should be removed. With these few words, I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to support the motion that was raised by the Senator and those who have supported this motion. I want to say a few words on the motion under debate from another perspective. I agree with the abolishment of the death penalty but what I am saying is that we are not looking at the root cause these issues. We need to go deeper into this issue. What I am saying is that the issue of taking one’s life is said to be a criminal case. In vernacular, I do not know what they say but in English, they say it is a criminal case.
A criminal case in our country - a traditional leader cannot preside or say anything or interfere with anyone who looks at criminal cases. I want to say that if this House is the one that comes up with legislation, what is our challenge? If we say this is a criminal case, I say that a person must be killed. Once we call it a criminal case because of the criminality of the matter, that person must be killed and receive the death sentence. So, why should we be worried about the criminal case? If we want to address this matter, all of us agreed that these issues are mostly done in rural areas where there are societal norms and values. Why do we say when a person kills, the traditional chief cannot preside over such issues? Why is it that legislation does not protect the traditional leaders that if a person has murdered, that person should be arrested and should be coming to the king’s court until the matter is dealt with under our traditional customs and practices that we know.
These issues are two-fold. There is murder in the sense that one can just kill and there is a case whereby a person is murdered but you do not know who murdered the person. What I am saying is that as the Senate we represent the people and we want to help the people; let us assist them. We are saying we have traditional norms and values as traditional leaders. I know that when we go out of this House we have different opinions. The chiefs are said to be interfering in criminal cases and now we are agreeing that all cases should be dealt with by the traditional leaders. Why do we not address that issue? We need to address legislation. Why do we say it is a challenge and yet it is not a challenge? Let us remove the term criminal case. Whoever explained that a criminal case is murder – who said that? We need to remove it.
We are the people and we should remove that. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. I
want to start by thanking Hon. Sen. Makone for the motion that she brought into this House on the death sentence. My view is almost similar to that of Sen. Chief Nhema. I am one of the traditional leaders who is faced with the issue of murder and this is a person who was murdered in 1947. People came to my area and they were being led by birds because my home area is where the murdered person’s relatives stay - so the bird is the one that led them to my area. They came because in their family 14 people have died because of the avenging spirit of the person that was murdered. In my area I am losing a lot of cattle because of the disease that is there, but the cows that they brought are not being affected by the disease.
I know about this because one of my policemen is looking after them. What I want to say is that, let us not look down upon our traditional court system. Traditional leaders are losing their power. The power that we have should be reinstated. If a person loses a goat, the pain of losing a goat will still be there but if you go to Chief
Charumbira’s court, you will be paid back. We are African people and some are saying that even COVID can be healed using traditional medicine.
Let us sit down and see what we can do as Africans. Killing and taking someone’s life is bad but when we remove such powers, we need to ensure that we strengthen the other side. We do not want anyone to take someone else’s life. The Bible says ‘do not kill’. We are not allowed to kill or to take anyone’s life. It is true that we do not have a hangman. No one wants to be a killer, but if we are not going to kill anyone, what do we do to appease those who have relatives whose lives have been taken away? Let us not take a traditional chief as just a title but the traditional chief should be given power and authority to preside over such cases.
That way the chiefs will be respected as people in authority. Right now we need to complete that issue after COVID. They came the first time in 2018. Those who came first failed to come back because they are now late. Those who came last year, all of them did not manage to come. On the delegation that came last year - only one came this year and so, what we want as traditional leaders is to be given the power. Sometimes a person can lose his life in my area and when people get a beast to use as relish during the funeral, it is said to be stock theft. Let us give the traditional leaders the power and authority to preside over these cases and that way, we will safeguard our cultural traditions and norms.
If the chief says I know this person and this is what happened under the so-called criminal case, the chief is said to be interfering. If it is difficult to slaughter a chicken, what more of a human being? I think killing is bad. The death sentence should be done away with but we should also have foresight and insight in ensuring that we empower our Traditional Chiefs to address these issues in line with our traditional cultural practices and customs. Every avenging spirit will fight for itself even if we are to shout and say a lot of things, the person’s life is lost. It
may be okay today but the avenging spirit will still come.
We know of a case of someone who was in prison for 22 years and when he came out of jail he said that he wanted to find out where the relatives of the person he murdered were because he was failing to sleep. We need to pay back those avenging spirits. For those who are given the cattle to appease the spirit, they should not be accused of stock theft. So we need to go back to the drawing board and ensure our traditional customs remain in place.
THE MINISTER FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL
PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE WOMEN POLITICAL LEADERS GLOBAL
FORUM HELD IN ICELAND
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Women Political Leaders Global Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THIRD WORLD PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS HELD IN BALI
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the
Third World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development Goals.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUMBANE MKWANANZI: I
second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st, May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE 74TH SESSION OF THE EXECUTIVE
COMMITTEE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY UNION
(APU) HELD IN BANGUI
Sixth Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 74th Session of the Executive Committee of the African Parliamentary Union.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL
PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWEAN DELEGATION BILATERAL
VISIT TO CUBA
Seventh Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwean Delegation’s Bilateral Visit to Havana, Cuba.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL
PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 2019 ST. PETERSBURG INTERNATIONAL
ECONOMIC FORUM (SPIEFG) HELD IN RUSSIA
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the 2019 St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEFG).
Question proposed.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Mr. President, I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I second.
Motion put and greed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st May, 2020.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES IN
THE MINING SECTOR
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Implementation of Empowerment Programmes in the mining sector.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st May, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MASHONALAND CENTRAL PROVINCE (HON. MAVHUNGA),
the Senate adjourned at Seven Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 19th May, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ADHERENCE TO SOCIAL DISTANCE REGULATION THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: First and foremost, we
have to maintain social distancing. This is why we were meant to sit in this Chamber. We have to spread enough, the front benches you are not maintaining social distancing, please spread as much as possible. The front benches spread, even to my right you are very close to each other.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND EXPORT-IMPORT BANK
OF CHINA RELATING TO THE NET-ONE MOBILE BROADBAND
EXPANSION PROJECT PHASE 3
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Madam President I
move the motion standing in my name that;
WHEREAS Section 327 (3) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that an agreement which is not an international treaty but which has been concluded or executed by the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and imposes fiscal obligations on
Zimbabwe does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by
Parliament;
AND WHEREAS, the loan agreement between the Government of
Zimbabwe and Export-Import bank of China relating to the Net-One
Mobile Broadband Expansion Project Phase 3 being implemented by
Net-One Cellular (Private) Limited was concluded on 26th June, 2019 in
Beijing, China; and
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (3) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid
Agreement be and is hereby approved.
With your permission Madam President, if I could add some flesh to that motion. I think more detail is required for this legalistic parliamentary language which I have just gone through. This pertains to what we call the Net-One Phase 3 Expansion Project of 26th June. 2019, Government of Zimbabwe and the Import-Export bank of China signed a concession loan agreement amounting to US$71 million or about 465 million Renmimbi for the financing of the Net-One network Expansion Phase III Project.
The facility will be on-lend to Net-One by Government. The loan would attract an annual interest rate of 2% and commitment fees are 0.25% per undrawn amount. The management fee is 0.25% of the loan amount and this was gazetted on 9th August, 2019. The loan repayment period is 20 years, including a five year grace period. Only interest payments will be made during the grace period and not the principal amount. Net-One would be responsible for the loan repayment from the revenue generated from the sales of airtime and internet data. The objective of the project is to increase 4g and 3g capacity through increased infrastructure sharing and introduction of 4g data roaming. In more detail, it will involve the construction of a wireless communication network, a call network, transmission network, telecommunication services software, data centre, network corporation and management system and other supporting communication hardware and software facilities. It will also enable internet protocol interconnection to satisfy the growing requests from external partners. I thank you Madam President.
Motion put and agreed to.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
APPOINTMENT AS LEADER OS THE HOUSE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May be before I
proceed, I would like to give you as Members of the Senate, a notice that Hon. Minister Perrance Shiri was appointed the Leader of the House in Senate by the President. This is to notify you that next time whenever we sit, we leave a place for him so that it will be easy for us to consult him when need be.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND EXPORT-IMPORT BANK
OF INDIA RELATING TO DEKA PUMPING STATION AND RIVER
WATER INTAKE SYSTEM PROJECT
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. NCUBE): Madam President, I
move the motion standing in my name that;
WHEREAS section 327 (3) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that an Agreement which is not an international treaty but which has been concluded or executed by the President or under the
President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and imposes fiscal obligations on Zimbabwe does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament;
AND WHEREAS, the loan agreement between Government of
Zimbabwe and Export-Import bank of India relating to Deka Pumping
Station and River Water Intake System Project being implemented by
Zimbabwe Power Company concluded 3rd June, 2019; and
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of the Constitution, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved.
If I can elaborate on what this Deka Pumping Station is all about.
This involves the upgrading of the Deka Pumping Station and the River
Water Intake project and entails the rehabilitation of the Deka Pumping Station and construction of a new pipe from the Deka Pumping Station to Hwange Power Station. The project is envisaged to pump water that will enable meeting of the new demands of water by Hwange 7 & 8 Expansion Project and the existing power plant. The project focuses on bringing to full stature the existing infrastructure at Deka Pumping Station.
The Project’s scope evolves on the rehabilitation of the existing pumping stations and the settling tanks, the design and installation commissioning; or process control systems; the replacement of the switchgear; the design and construction of a new pipeline which is 42 km; rehabilitation of the existing pipeline and the resuscitation of the cathodic protection equipment and the provision for community drinking water.
The initial contract was referred to a facility of US$28.6 million and was based on estimated cost of a feasibility study that was done in 2010 by a company called WAPCOS which excluded the geological survey, but in 2015, WAPCOS CARRIED out a geological technical survey which included soil investigation resulting in increased costs of the project to US$39.6 million.
The Export and Import Bank of India also sent their experts to verify the costs escalation and they confirmed this to be true that there is a new figure. So, there is a higher figure now in terms of the loan agreement and an additional amount had to be added. This additional amount is $19.5 million and the interest rate on it is 1.75% per annum. The commitment fee is 0.5% and the management fee is 0.5% and the facility will be on lend to the Zimbabwe Power Company on the same terms and conditions that we received as Government from the IndiaExim Bank. The Zimbabwe Power Company will be responsible for the repayment of the loan straight to the India-Exim Bank. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. President. I want to appreciate the coming in of the loan to improve the Deka Pump Station. My real debate here is not to contradict what is happening but to question that you initially said the amount was $23 point something, million and suddenly it has increased by 19 million. If I did not get you well, I stand to be corrected. $19 million is almost two times in US dollar terms and does it mean that there were other things that were improved or changed in the total contract because a revision of such an amount in US dollar terms is frightening in engineering terms to say what really took place at the initial costing and going to the final costing. However, if it is covering the necessary improvement because of lack of power in Zimbabwe, I want us to address it as Parliamentarians. It is a welcome idea but to ensure that whatever we are spending, we are doing it diligently so that we do not just impose expenses on our communities and make them suffer. Already people cannot get the dollar and if everything is in US dollars cost, we might not be able to pay some of these loans.
Hwange Power Station Hass been done so many times and initially we had a loan from Namibia, and we had to pay that loan. Then there were other loans that followed and now we are having this Indian loan. What is important with the Hwange Power Station is to ensure that we have got a properly installed new plant and to work towards improving all the plants to ensure that we have reasonable power supply. Taking cognisance of the fact that if we go to Kariba we have almost exhausted the capacity and whatever we did with the other $300/$600 million was purely a standby facility.
Right now what we need is seriously getting new plants that improve our power provision. So if we are not working towards another new plant and improving the capacity at Hwange, we are in an appalling state. We need to look for more money to ensure that we are properly powered. There is no industry to talk of and there is no business to talk of without power and water. I therefore urge the Minister to look for financial resources to ensure that the country has adequate enablers to the economy. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I want to start by thanking you Madam
President for affording me the opportunity to speak and also to thank the Hon Minister of Finance and Economic Development for the effort that he is putting to resuscitate the Hwange Power Station. I also speak as a former ZESA employee. I worked at that pump work station for 23 years. So I speak with full knowledge of the challenges faced by Hwange Power Station, especially on issues to do with insufficient water from Zambezi River to the Power Station. This pump station is very old and the employees also face a lot of challenges in order to get water to the pump station to enable them to produce electricity. The equipment that is there is obsolete.
I remember as a young man working there, we had problems of maintaining the pumps at that time. We worked to repair the switch gear because it already had challenges. I am actually surprised by how they were working from the time I left the station to this day. We should take this opportunity to thank the ZESA engineers and technicians for a job well done because they were working in a dreadful situation. However, my concern on these agreements is that we need to be careful when the money is given to us to ensure that these projects are successful.
This is not the first project, WAPCOS has been there in Hwange and has done a lot of work around that power station. The output or product of the project should be tangible. ZESA does a lot of projects, not only at DEKA Pump Station but they have upgraded Harare, Bulawayo and Mnyati Power Stations. They did a lot of projects which cost a lot of money but the benefits realised in terms of megawatts out of the projects is very minimal or zero. So there is a danger of Government entering into these kind of projects because of the unbeneficial results that come out of it.
We did the upgrade at Hwange Power Station but after all the projects there was nothing beneficial that we got. So our appeal is for engineers who do the diligence assessment to do it properly so that the loan will give us a tangible product by the end of the project. We do not want, once again after the DEKA project to have the same problems of having insufficient water going to the power station. The upgrade of DEKA Power Station is being done so that we get adequate water going through 1 to 6 going to 7 because we will have extended the water usage.
However, I want to applaud the effort being put. I am just giving a warning that we should be careful so that our project is beneficial to us and eradicates all the problems being faced now resulting in sufficient water for the station. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Madam President, let
me thank Hon. Sen. Mudzuri for his comments and input regarding this DEKA Pump Station Project. He emphasised two things regarding this project which are firstly the importance of finding more resources to support the investment into our power sector to ensure there is enough power available and I certainly agree with that. I think everyone appreciates that. Secondly, that there should be careful use of these resources. The cost benefit analysis should be well understood and again I agree with that. As the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development we will do our part to make sure that these resources are used appropriately and we seek to get the desired results. But also then to begin to raise additional resources right across the sector, he may be aware that we are desirous to see more investment for example in the renewable energy sector which is the solar energy sector, in particular where again we expect independent power producers to come in and be licensed so as to increase power output as is needed. I thank him for that.
Then proceeding on to Hon. Sen Komichi’s comments, he has the benefit of having worked at Hwange Power Station and is one of our more valued assets in terms of skill here in the Senate in terms of knowing so much about the sector. He also emphasised the need to use the cost benefit analysis approach. Studies have been done and the need established to build this pipe but at the end of the day we need results. We need to see increased power output and I agree with him that we need to ensure that there is increased power output so that the investment is not wasted and we find ourselves having to pay back these loans at great cost but with meagre benefits not matching the costs incurred to service these loans. I agree with that and thank the Hon.
Senators.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND EXPORT-IMPORT BANK
OF INDIA RELATING TO RENOVATIONS OF BULAWAYO
THERMAL POWER STATION PROJECT
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I move the motion
standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS, section 327 (3) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe provides that an agreement which is not an international treaty but which has been concluded or executed by the President or under the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and imposes fiscal obligations on Zimbabwe does not bind
Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament;
AND WHEREAS, the loan agreement between the Government of
Zimbabwe and Export-Import Bank of India relating to renovations of
Bulawayo Thermal Power Station Project being implemented by
Zimbabwe Power Company concluded on 3rd June, 2019; and
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327(3) of the
Constitution, this House resolves that the aforesaid agreement be and is hereby approved.
With your permission Madam President, let me add some flesh to that. The Bulawayo Power Station was commissioned in 1957 with an installed capacity of 120 megawatts but at present, the serviceable capacity is only 90 megawatts. The station has chain grate and coal fired boilers. The main challenge faced by the station is poor performance of the boiler plant. The re-powering project will replace the existing boilers with circulating fluidised based combustion boilers (CFBC). Some of the engineers will recognise the language. CFBC technology will enable flexibility to fire a wide range of coals.
The project will deal with the upgrading of the existing plant by changing the boilers to increase capacity from the current 30 megawatts to 90 megawatts.
The detailed project scope for the renovations of Bulawayo
Thermal Power Station will include:
- replacing chain grate boilers with circulating fluidised based combustion, the CFBC boilers as I said and their auxiliaries;
- rehabilitation of turbo-alternator sets and associated auxiliaries
- rehabilitation of the common plant and balance of plant; and
- refurbishment of Khami Water Treatment Plant and Construction of raw water supply pipeline from Khami Dam.
The Government of Zimbabwe and Export-Import Bank of India
signed a dollar credit line. In October, 2016 ZPC floated a tender which qualified for pre-qualification exercise for engineering procurement construction (EPC) contract and only four companies were shortlisted. Only one out of the four companies submitted a bid and the bid was way over the available US$87 million line of credit. This led to ZPC retendering the project and the final winning bid was way above the loan by US$23 million.
On behalf of the Government, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development requested for the additional financing for this project from India Exim Bank for the US$23 million. Following protracted discussions and negotiations, India Exim Bank extended an additional line of credit amounting to US$23 million towards the renovations of the Bulawayo Thermal Power Station project.
Again, the terms for this contract, the additional loan was US$23 million and the interest rate was 1.75% per annum, commitment fees 0.5%, management fees 0.5% and the facility will be on-lend to ZPC at the same terms and conditions that we as Government procured from the India Exim Bank. The Zimbabwe Power Company will be responsible for the repayment of the loan straight to India Exim Bank. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President and Hon. Minister. I am again coming from the same anchor in which I would like to warn the Government and the Minister that whilst it is noble and wise to renovate these power plants, you have said it in your statement that this is as far old as 1957 and it had a capacity of 120 megawatts but now it has gone down to almost zero. I think there are so many years gone now without Bulawayo producing any single megawatt. This is due mainly to the old equipment or infrastructure including the boilers themselves.
The proposal that is there is trying to renovate the boilers. We have had renovations at Munyati Power Station. A lot of money was poured into those projects and nothing material came out of the whole processes. Today we are faced with the same project in which the Bulawayo Power Station is going to be renovated. I stand to suggest and argue that we would rather build a new power station in Bulawayo. We would rather ensure that we have a new power station in Bulawayo, Munyati and Harare. Then you are guaranteed of enough power supply in these strategic centres than renovation.
If you go back to the former Ministers of Energy, Hon. Mudzuri and many others before including Minister Dr. Sekeramayi, they will tell you that we had a lot of renovations at these power plants but we do not have anything to talk about now because nothing has really come out. Why have those projects failed to produce the megawatts that we wanted? Why then do we believe that today they can produce the megawatts that we want? If you check, these are almost the same companies from the same country who have done these kinds of projects before. I feel a bit skeptical about us doing these kinds of projects because we have a history of the same projects that have been carried out in these power plants.
My serious recommendation is - let us relook into establishing new power stations. We would rather have a new boiler, new generator and everything which will guarantee you production of 120 megawatts or 60 megawatts consistently than to be told that we would move from zero to 30 or 60 megawatts but when the time comes to commission we do not achieve it. I do not know why the engineers from ZESA are afraid to take bold decisions. They have got records and evidence of failure in those upgrades. These are the same engineers that were there for the last 10 to 20 years.
Some of them have actually been involved in those projects and they produce nothing. I am now talking from the point of Government of which I am part of. Let our own engineers from the Government side look into the projects viability, compare with the past and see whether we can do better. I am not saying this project should stop. It must go ahead but I am just giving a warning that after 3 to 5 years of renovations we can meet again here with no power generation in Bulawayo. Thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. I
also want to add my voice towards the debate on the Hwange Power
Station. I want to appreciate the comments from my colleague, Hon.
Komichi because it is real engineering that you meet when you try to refurbish a plant that was established in 1957 and is as old as myself. Whatever you are bringing into that plant also needs new bodies and everything else. I am not sure whether or not we will benefit much from refurbishing but since you have already done the project, it is too late.
I am also worried about the timeframe from the tender to the award, i.e. 2016 and we are now in 2019 – that is three years of a tender going through. Everything changes during those three years and as an engineer, I find it difficult to understand because once you have taken more than two to three years, maybe you will need to re-tender and do it as fast as possible so that you have fresh tenders.
I want us to serve this nation diligently. Most of the projects that are done in this country are a repeat as my colleague said, or they have not much value. I know that you are a finance person and may not understand the language but there is need to go through the technology also. What is happening in best practice? What is happening elsewhere? Do we really need to refurbish Hwange, Bulawayo or Harare? I know Harare is very expensive. During the time when I was in the ministry, a unit from Harare Power Station cost forty cents (ZWL$0.40) when we were buying electricity from Kariba at two cents (ZWL$0.02).
So I do not know whether or not due diligence was done to find out how much each unit would cost. We were blending it and trying to find a cost but I found it ridiculous that we wanted to refurbish Harare Power Station where there is not even a cooling water system because there is no water in Harare and you want to cool it. I am not sure of the particulars in Bulawayo but when you find that engineers are reluctant to take up that job, it is only the crooked ones or those who just want to make money with ten middle men in - between to charge.
My disappointment is that we go for the worst and pile our people with debts that they cannot pay because there is nothing for free. We have to honour these debts no matter how cheap they look but it makes us pay for poor diligence work done. We also need to check on whether our engineers are doing the right thing – I am not saying that they are bad but I think my worry is that when we go to refurbish Hwange Power
Station, Harare and Munyati, we are not looking at modern technology.
Look at our factories in Harare, if you want to refurbish any factory in Harare right now you will find that it is totally out of date. You may need to break the whole wall in order to bring in new equipment, that is if you want to produce anything that was produced in that factory – they are outdated. If you want a shell – yes, but to go into those cooling towers you may pile so much coal when you do not require so much coal.
I know that you have already done it but we just appeal to Government and those technocrats to ensure that they bring proper technology to us. We do not want to come next year or in two years time to complain that there is nothing happening. I gave you an example of Kariba Power Station – Kariba has not done us any good. Tell me - people said, ‘We put in 300 megawatts last time and there was no 300 megawatts – we had no water, we had nothing? You know the capacity of Kariba ends at 7750 megawatts and it is only during the peak periods when peak demand improves but people went all over and said that, ‘We have commissioned a plant and doing this…’ - that is cheating our own
people and cheating ourselves.
We have to deliver something that our children inherit and power is one of them because without power we go nowhere. We can still use all those facilities even with reasonably older technology but when we do due diligence, ensure that there is reasonable efficiency and we can get life out of the money that we have put in.
So I want to appeal to you - I know that you are a finance person but I hope that our engineers did a proper job. I do not believe that it is a proper job but let us wait another three to four years after completion and I would be happy if we get something. If we do not, then I will come to you Hon. Minister and say, ‘We were just talking in Parliament but we should do something better for our people’. It is this Parliament and your time in office that will be judged by history. I thank you very much.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President. I
just want to take this opportunity to add support to what the other Hon. Members have tried to put across. I think it is a fact that as a nation we have had a perennial shortage of power.
I remember when I was still in high school; we were renovating these power stations which we are still renovating today. I just want to find out whether or not there is due diligence on the part of our experts as to what the life span of renovated power stations is? I think that this is where we are getting it wrong because for the Government to come in and mortgage the country on monies for renovation when we are not going to get value for money – I think is unfair. I know that we are under pressure as Government to make sure that there is enough power provision but I think we also need to apply our minds soberly so that we utilise the scarce national resources in a better way.
Probably you want to equate it to performing a heart surgery on a 90 year old person and want him to play soccer like Lionel Messi – it will never happen. I think that the idea here is not for us. We really want power and want our industries to open but we need to do it properly. I would propose that in- as- much as we need the money, we also need to take our experts and engineers to task. As alluded by the other Hon. Member, some of these engineers have presided over renovations for the same power station over the past 15 or so years three times but have we come in as a nation to say, ‘After the renovation, this is what we have benefited as a nation?’
I think that we have to take the bull by its horns. We know that investments like this are very capital intensive and when you invest, you expect to reap the rewards for the next 25 to 30 years and not three to five years as is happening. It means that the whole system needs to be overhauled. We need to be brave enough and it is better to just build a small power station for Harare that will last for the next 30 years and we do it in stages rather than trying to put resources in renovating. There is always a life span for any investment and I think that the sooner we realise and accept it as a reality that these power stations that we are trying to borrow money for and mortgage our future generations. They are not going to benefit and even though there will be so many inefficiencies. You will find out a power station which has been renovated. When you renovate, you expect that you improve efficiency and will not get breakdowns but we have had several times when we have technical problems at Hwange and our power station at Harare. It is because the equipment or infrastructure is obsolete. You cannot renovate an obsolete structure. I think technology has changed, you cannot renovate a power station which was built 30 years ago and find compatible equipment which will make it work. With these few words Mr. President, I would urge the Government, as much as we are going to support – because we need power for the nation, but we need to do more due diligence and come out with a proper structure. It is better to borrow more money and build new power stations than to spread the scarce resources trying to resuscitate infrastructure which is completely obsolete. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add my voice to the topic which has been presented by the Minister of Finance. I want to thank the Minister of Finance who has got sleepless nights trying to look for resources to revamp projects within our country. We salute you for the work you are doing. When we are talking about power Mr. President, everyone needs power either in towns or in remote areas. We need more power that can assist our irrigation schemes to get more electricity to get more food for the country. As our President is always talking about production, you find that we fail that production because those who use the irrigation systems do not have enough power to do so. Mr. President, I would also lastly, remind the Minister that for all the loans that we acquire as a country, be responsible and pay back so that we continue having more loans and more production. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to contribute a few words to the motion. I want to thank our Minister of Finance and the Government of Zimbabwe which is able to get partnerships from other countries that can assist us in generating electricity. A number of Members have noted the challenges that are faced. We had the history of the plant in Bulawayo which was established in 1957 and has seen its days. I would want to appeal to the Minister of Finance and the Government of Zimbabwe that Zimbabwe requires electricity. No country can develop without electricity. We know the challenges that we face with electricity. We are buying some of our electricity from Mozambique, South Africa and other countries. I hope that in the near future the Minister of Finance will also look into the fact that when considering the issue of electricity, it is important to consider the use of solar energy which will assist the country. For us in rural areas, this should be able to alleviate the challenges of electricity so that we can all use solar. Otherwise I want to thank the Minister and we support the gesture that we have partners who are able to assist us to get more electricity and we want to thank you for getting these friends.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President, thank
you very much. I thank the Hon. Senators for their contributions and comments. Let me begin with the comments from Hon. Sen. Komichi.
He mentioned that we are dealing with old equipment and we are trying to renovate old equipment and we should have sufficiently investigated, perhaps building new power stations altogether. This was in respect of the Bulawayo Thermal Power Station, Munyati and Harare, he gave these examples as well. All these are very useful comments but as Government, we are guided by the technical advice we receive from the experts from within ZESA and from within the Ministry of Energy. They are the ones who advise Government and they took the view that rehabilitation is still the best route going forward but also there is an issue of exposure in terms of the size of the loan. That was also taken into account that while we were negotiating within India Exim Bank, there was kind of limit beyond which we could not go up and that meant perhaps rehabilitation was what could be afforded within that credit limit. This may also apply to the other comments by Hon. Sen. Mudzuri that once you hit your ceiling in terms of your limit and what you call headroom in finance, it is very difficult to negotiate for more. Since we owe other people monies in terms of arrears, Africa Exim Bank and others, we are in a bind. You almost have to take the little that you have been given within the proposal that you have submitted which in this case was rehabilitation. Of course we need to really continuously evaluate whether we are getting value for money.
Now I am transmissioning to the comments by Hon. Sen. Mudzuri, are we getting value for money? I agree with this kind of thinking that we must continuously evaluate and press the engineers so that we make sure that they deliver on the promises and we get the power that we need. He has also noted that the tender took too long. This may mean the technology has moved on but let us agree that let us focus on output and make sure that we get value for money for what we have sourced from India Exim-Bank.
My reactions also apply to the comments by Hon. Sen. Dr. Mavetera. His comments were more pointed to what is the lifespan of the renovated power station. Again, the engineers who advised us told us that in terms of life span there seems to be value for money. Of course we know that if it was brand new, life span would have been longer but again it has meant borrowing more and the credit limit and headroom then kick in then you will find that you cannot borrow enough for that life of the power station. Those are some of the constraints but they are right to raise this value for money concern.
I have noted the comments from Hon. Sen. Mohadi who again implored us to keep going in terms of raising additional resources. She welcomes what we have done so far and she is encouraging us to do more so that we can finance power production within the economy. Then finally from Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi who again noted the efforts being made in sourcing a funding and that perhaps we should really focus more on solar energy. I agree with this that renewable energy is the future and that the more we invest in it the better. We have allowed independent power producers to come into the market and of course, some of the delays pertain to access to land. They need land in order to build these solar farms and some of it has to do with the distance between those pieces of land to the grid and often the recommendation is, it should be within 30 km so that they can connect easily.
There is no issue with the power purchase agreement so far but it is those other constraints – the land, distance and for some of them, we have noticed that they have been given permission but they never follow through with funding. So we do not know what the problem is but, we are pushing as Government to have more solar producers. Think about it Mr. President, that in terms of rural school infrastructure like classrooms and so forth, there is need for us there to invest more to support our schools so that they have power. Not every school has to connect to the grid but just standalone solar power systems are good enough to support our schools and also our rural hospitals. So, the issue of solar power is critical and as Government, we are pushing hard but we also need the other side to come on board, which is the independent power producers – to put the money on the table and support this initiative. In short, I really appreciate the Hon. Senators contributions. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER,
CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. SHIRI): Mr.
President Sir, I move that Order of the Day Number 4 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 5 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 20th May, 2020.
MOTION
ABOLITION OF THE DEATH PENALTY
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the repeal of the death sentence and the provisions in the Criminal Law and Codification Act [Chapter 9:23] and other statutes.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. President Sir, I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 20th May, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF LANDS,
AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI),
the Senate adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 5th May, 2020
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PARLIAMENT BUSINESS IN THE WAKE OF COVID-19
THE HON. SPEAKER: I would like to thank the Hon.
Members who have come from the designated areas because of the Coronavirus pandemic which is ravaging human kind throughout the world. It is important therefore, that we as legislators observe the World Health Organisation Injunctions as well as our own national strategy as pronounced by Government to observe the requirements that may help in containing, to some degree, the impact of the Coronavirus. We, as Parliament are obligated to play our oversight role in the circumstances and accordingly, the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders has exercised its mind regarding the arrangements that will make it possible for Parliament to function with minimum degree of disruption while at the same time fulfilling its constitutional mandate. That is why as you will notice, your Order Paper is extremely thin and business will be restricted accordingly today and Parliament will engage the stakeholders, particularly the hotels so that adequate arrangements are made for Members of Parliament to be accommodated accordingly. It is hoped that we will get further direction in the next two weeks from the Government on the way forward. Meanwhile, administrative measures are being worked out by the Clerk and Staff of Parliament to ensure that the wheels of function in Parliament do take place accordingly.
VACANCIES IN THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. SPEAKER: On the 3rd April 2020, Parliament was notified by the Movement for Democratic Change-Tsvangirai Party (MDC-T) that Hon. C. Hwende, Member of Parliament for
Kuwadzana East Constituency; Hon. T. Khumalo, Proportional
Representation for Bulawayo Province; and Hon. P. Chapfiwa Mutseyami, Member of Parliament for Dangamvura-Chikanga have ceased to be the Members of the MDC-T Party and therefore, no longer represent the interest of the Party in Parliament – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
Section 129 (1) (k) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that, “The seat of a Member of Parliament becomes vacant if the member has ceased to belong to the political party of which he or she was a member when elected to Parliament and the political party concerned, by written notice to the Speaker or to the President of the Senate as the case may be, has declared that the Member has ceased to belong to it”.
Pursuant to the above, I do hereby inform the House that vacancies have arisen in the constituencies stated above by the operation of the law. The necessary administrative measures will be taken to inform His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) of the existence of the vacancies in line with Section 39 (1) of the Electoral Act [Chapter 213] as amended – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL
AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the
House adjourned at Twenty-Five minutes to Three o’clock p.m. until
Tuesday, 19th May, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I hope we are maintaining our social distancing. I think that behind there if we may try to maintain the social distance because we had to call a few Hon. Members of
Parliament so that we manage to fit into this room.
I cannot know you now because of the half faces – [Laughter.] – you can identify me because I am sitting in my usual Chair but I can see someone like the Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International
Trade here. Welcome Hon. Minister – [HON. S. B. MOYO: Thank you.]
-
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
UNPROCEDURAL PASSING OF THE CONSTITUTION
AMENDMENT BILL (NO. 1) [H. B. 1A, 2017] BY THE SENATE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: On the 31st of March, 2020, the Constitutional Court passed a judgment to the effect that the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill (No. 1) [H. B. 1A, 2017] was unprocedurally passed by Parliament.
The court is of the view that the Senate did not comply with Section 328 (5) of the Constitution when it approved the Third Reading of the Bill on 1st August, 2017. It is for this reason that the court ordered that the Bill must be referred back to the Senate at the Third Reading Stage.
Accordingly, the Bill is referred back to the Senate at the Third Reading Stage in order to comply with the provisions of Section 328 (5) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
VACANCY IN THE SENATE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: On 3rd April, 2020, Parliament was notified by the Movement for Democratic Change – Tsvangirai Party (MDC-T) that Hon. Sen. L. Timveos, representing the
Midlands Province had ceased to be the member of the MDC-T Party and therefore, no longer represents the interests of the party in Parliament.
Section 129 (1) (k) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that, “The seat of a Member of Parliament becomes vacant if the member has ceased to belong to the political party of which he or she was a member when elected to Parliament and the political party concerned, by written notice to the Speaker or to the President of the Senate as the case may be, has declared that the member has ceased to belong to it.”
Pursuant to the above, I do hereby inform the House that a vacancy has arisen in the Senate constituency stated above by the operation of the law. The necessary administrative measures will be taken to inform His
Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) of the existence of the vacancies in line with Section 39 (1) of the Electoral Act [Chapter 213] as amended.
RECALLING OF HON. MWONZORA AND HON. KOMICHI
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: On 6th April, 2020, Parliament received a letter from Hon. Hwende dated 3rd April, 2020 purporting to recall Hon. Sen. Mwonzora and Hon. Sen. Komichi in terms of Section 129 (1) (k) of the Constitution. Having studied the said section of the Constitution and the recent court judgment in the case of MDC and Others versus Mashavira and Others, No. S.C. 56/2020, I am satisfied that the purported recall is null and void for its lack of compliance with the Supreme Court ruling cited herein.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION,
PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MUTSVANGWA), the House adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Three o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 19th May, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 18th March, 2020
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
APPOINTMENT TO COMMITTEES
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Phillip Chiyangwa will serve in the Budget and Finance Committee as well as in the Home Affairs, Defence and Security Services Committee.
ADJOURNEMENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TO CURB
THE SPREAD OF CORONAVIRUS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that following the announcement made by His Excellency, the Head of State and Government yesterday on measures to be taken to curb the spread of the coronavirus, the House will adjourn today to 5th May, 2020 – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - However, Hon. Members should note that the resumption date is subject to change depending on the prevailing conditions at that particular time.
Hon. Members will be advised of such change should the need arise. Consequently, all international travel, Committee meetings and Public Hearings are cancelled with immediate effect. However, approved workshops and field visits may go ahead where the numbers are less than the recommended number of 100. All other meetings will be considered on a case by case basis.
Let me explain that where there is doubt I am advising the Hon. Members, particularly the Chairpersons and those who will be leading some field visits, to liaise with the Clerk of Parliament at all times.
Thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Good afternoon Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker Sir, I am seeking clarity with regard to the presentation that you have just done. It is well appreciated but Mr. Speaker Sir I will need clarity with regard to the consistency in terms of cementing that position. We heard yesterday that there would be no more gatherings exceeding 100 all over the country effectively from today, but as we speak right now, in Nyakomba in Nyanga, the Executive is having a rally– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. MUTSEYAMI: As we speak right now the Executive is having a rally in Nyanga North at Bumhira Primary School. In the morning they had a big gathering of 700 people at Nyakomba Irrigation Scheme. How consistent is the position and how are we going to adhere, bearing in mind that the very people who announced that are now abusing the position?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear the Hon. Member. The explanation
is very simple. It is that the arrangements were done and were at an advanced stage. Inasmuch as the notice that we have given about our sitting, particularly here in the House where we are so crowded, it could not be a cancellation by notice generally. That is why we said we will accommodate this sitting today. Sometimes you have to rely on some exigencies which are beyond our control just as we are sitting now. We are over 100. We have allowed this sitting by taking a chance and that this would be the last sitting until the question of the Coronavirus is arranged.
HON. BITI: I rise on a point of clarification Mr. Speaker Sir. We have Committees that are behind time in terms of their work schedule; and considering that Committees normally have less that 30 people, we suggest and submit that Committee work, provided it meets the criteria of less than 100, be allowed to continue work because we have
Committees that are seriously behind. I make that submission to you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti your point of clarification will
fall into the category of case by case. So you consult the Clerk of Parliament.
*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We heard
what you said regarding the Coronavirus, but the issue is that we want to go home, but we do not have the means of transportation because there is no diesel. We might not find diesel today or tomorrow. What should we do to address the anomaly?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am advised that the arrangements are being made by administration and also you are not being chased away as from today. You will be staying in your hotels until Friday. It is not that you have to go today – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order, order!
HON. T. MLISWA: Mine is not a notice of motion but it is a
point of privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: We have to start on your questions
please.
HON. T. MLISWA: I thought that no one was willing to give notice of motion and that is why I got up.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have received the following apologies from the Hon. Ministers; Hon. Matuke, Deputy Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare; Hon. S. B. Moyo, Minister of
Foreign Affairs and Hon. Kazembe Kazembe. He may be late but just in case he does not finish what he is doing and Hon. Muchinguri-Kashiri. I have two Hon. Ministers and one would like to present an Audit Report.
HON. GONESE: Sorry Mr. Speaker Sir. I have a point of order arising from your last announcement regarding those Hon. Ministers who have sought leave of absence. We all know that in the past we have raised the issue that I think the list which you read out has got about four names. When we look at the numbers who are here, it is obvious that there are Hon. Ministers who have neither sought leave of absence and who are not present today. In the past we have raised this issue that we have got Standing Orders which provide that if an Hon. Minister has not sought leave of absence, they are guilty of contempt of Parliament.
We have raised this issue and we have asked the Chair and he has said that as an institution, it is now time for us to bear our teeth and bite. I submit that if an Hon. Minister persistently ignores that directive that should they not be present, they are allowed to seek leave of absence. If they do neither and do not come and seek leave of absence, I am submitting again that time has come for us to exercise the powers which we have in terms of the Standing Orders.
In terms of the Constitution, Section 107, it is very clear that they are obliged to attend. If they fail to attend, our Standing Orders have got provisions. Standing Order No. 26 as read with Standing Order No. 63 makes that provision that they are in contempt. If they are in contempt and persistently so and we do nothing about it, I believe that we are not exercising the powers that we have as an institution and you, as head of this august institution should initiate the relevant processes to bring those Hon. Ministers to account.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much. What is going to
happen is, the Clerk will document all the Ministers who shall be present and then take it up from there from the list that will appear on the Order Paper and we will follow the normal procedure in terms of moving forward, perhaps a motion accordingly. I said there are two Hon.
Ministers who want to make some presentations. The first one is the
Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Matiza.
TABLING OF REPORTS
REPORT OF NATIONAL RAILWAYS OF ZIMBABWE ON THE
FORENSIC AUDIT MANAGEMENT AND STAFFING
PROCUREMENT SYSTEMS PROPERTY
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to table two Forensic
Audits. The first in terms of Section 12 of the Audit Office Act Chapter
22 (18), I lay upon the table the Report of the National Railways of
Zimbabwe on the Forensic Audit Management and Staffing Procurement Systems Property, man rail investments for the period of January 2010 to December 2015.
REPORT OF THE AIR ZIMBABWE ON THE FORENSIC AUDIT
REPORT ON OPERATIONS OF THE AIR ZIMBABWE
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of Section 20 (12) of the Audit Office Act Chapter 22 (18), I lay upon the table the Report of the Air
Zimbabwe on the Forensic Audit Report on the Operations of Air Zimbabwe Private Limited with a specific focus on Aviation Insurance for December, 2013. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I would like to inform the House that the Hon. Minister of Primary and Secondary Education intends to present a ministerial statement on the examination fees after question time. So, be patient because there were issues that were popping up all the time and
so he is ready to clarify the situation.
FIRST READING
ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 14,
2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) presented the
Attorney General’s Office Amendment Bill [H. B. 14, 2019].
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege to do with the undertaking that you took that you were going to consult the
Attorney General’s office in terms of the disbursement of funds from devolution. I do not know how far you have gone with that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The consultations are actively going on.
We will report back to the House.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. MADIWA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development, in his absence to the Leader of the House. What is Government policy on foreign currency payments to small scale tea growers in light of the statement released by the Reserve Bank and TIMB to pay 50% of foreign currency to tobacco growers?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am not sure if that is for the Leader of Government business but for the Ministry of Lands in consultation with the Ministry of Finance.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): It is in my opinion that it was actually asked to the right Ministry. However, since I have a bit of background knowledge, I may answer a few things that I know.
Firstly, tea production falls within our Ministry. Certainly, we want the best for our farmers. Currently, if I am not mistaken, tea growers receive 20% in local currency and 80% in foreign currency. What we encourage is that all farmers of any exports open foreign currency accounts in order for them to be able to receive their contributions in foreign currency.
HON. MADIWA: That is not the reality on the ground because tea growers at the moment are selling their tea at an average of RTGs 2 a kilogramme. Small scale tea growers are the ones who are growing the best tea that is blending that one that is being produced by the commercial farmers that is making it the best tea. What is the incentive now that this tea is also exported and they are supposed to be benefiting from their exports?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Since there is a query, I suggest that you put that question in writing so that the Hon. Minister of Finance can answer in detail.
HON. NKANI: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. In view of the current challenges in the supply of fuel, what is the Government policy regarding the expedition of oil and gas exploration in our country?
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHASI): The issue concerning gas – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can you reduce your whispers.
HON. CHASI: Government is at this moment in time involved in the process of setting up the necessary policy framework and regulatory framework including the drafting of Petroleum Bill.....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, they cannot hear you at the back. Perhaps you could raise your voice.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. At the moment Government is in the process of putting in place the necessary policy framework for gas and petroleum and so the legal framework is actually under active consideration as we speak and a draft Bill will soon be made available.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power Development will make a Ministerial Statement, so if you could hold on to your questions on energy so that you can raise those once afterthe Hon. Minister has presented his statement.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My question is
directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. On behalf of the African Parliamentary Network against Corruption(APNAC), we are concerned that perhaps you would need to explain to us what is happening with the issues that have to do with either convictions or asset forfeiture, given that we have seen a lot of high profile arrests and yet we have not seen anything that has come out of it and the public and ourselves are beginning to doubt the seriousness and the political will that Government has on the fight against corruption.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to start
by assuring the Hon. Member that as a Government, we are committed to the fight against corruption.
Secondly, indeed high profile arrests have happened but what we also have to appreciate is, an arrest does not mean the person is guilty. There are due legal processes that have to be allowed until a verdict of guilty is reached. What we also have to appreciate is those that are termed ‘high profile’ are people with means that can use every available legal recourse at their disposal. So we would find that in most of the high profile cases, several court applications are made by the accused and that is legal because those processes are allowed. We have also noticed that there is need of close working relationships between the arresting details and the prosecution so that we do not have premature arrests that will lead to prolonged cases whereby there will now be need for further investigations in order to conclude the cases.
Most of the time we have had the accused on remand for a long time because of the need to ensure that they gather the necessary evidence and that is now happening whereby the prosecution and the arresting details are now working together. Once the paperwork is complete then they, can move for arrest.
Secondly, what we found out worldwide is that it is very difficult to prosecute a corruption case and also very expensive. I am glad that this House also passed an amendment to the Anti-money Laundering law so that we have a provision for assert forfeiture. This is an easy route to follow where the onus is on the person to prove where they got the wealth from and if they fail, then those asserts are forfeited to the State. So now we are going to use several avenues to ensure that we deal with corruption cases but indeed corruption cases are not very easy to prosecute as they involve people with means and those people will use every available legal process to ensure that they stall the process. I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Hon. Minister, perhaps
you could indicate whether there is no possibility of beginning to …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, please
address the Chair so that there is no duel between yourself and the Hon.
Minister.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I am sorry Mr. Speaker
Sir. Mr. Speaker Sir, perhaps the Hon. Minister maybe able to indicate to the House whether we should not be thinking about putting certain timelines within our legal system almost the same as we have done with Electoral petitions.
We know that after an election, you have a specific period to which something comes to court and it is finalised so that at least these things can be finalised. If it is not, the message that is being sent to the people of Zimbabwe generally is that you cannot be arrested for corruption and I think that is a bad way to start the fight against corruption. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Our Constitution
is very clear that an accused has to be brought to court and tried within reasonable time. So I think that we will be putting in place a lot of regulations if we start doing that but what is needed is to ensure that we have a system that is efficient in so far as investigations are concerned so that we do not have delays once somebody is either arrested or indicted for trial. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My supplementary Mr. Speaker Sir, is that the Prosecutor-General according to Section 261 (a) and (b) talks about the independence and impartiality of the Prosecutor General. How can we be assured as a nation if the Prosecutor-General himself has said that,
‘The State has been captured.’ and yet the Constitution is very clear that he must stand-alone independently and take no directive from anyone but he is being in the public domain saying that certainly the independence is not there, the impartiality is not there and because of that, him being the Prosecutor-General of the country has no faith in the system.
So how can the Hon. Minister convince this House that there is indeed faith in the system and that the Prosecutor-General is not telling the truth? It is something that I had asked the Hon. Vice President when he was here but now that the Hon. Minister who is responsible for the Prosecutor-General is here, he could probably respond to those statements by the Prosecutor General.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The first thing that I want to say is that the Prosecutor-General never said that ‘the prosecution is captured’. Secondly, the Prosecutor-General believes that he was quoted out of context. Thirdly Hon. Speaker, if I am captured, it does not translate to the Prosecutor-General being captured. As an individual, I am answerable for my own deeds, so if I do some misdemeanors, perhaps that is what the Prosecutor-General referred to but in conversation with him, he believes that he was misquoted and what was reported which is what the Hon. Member is quoting – he was misquoted because they did not take in context what he was saying.
I believe that there is a difference between the office of the Prosecutor-General and the State. He prosecutes for the State so if he indicates that there is something that is happening; he is not speaking per se about his office. I believe that our Prosecutor-General is very independent; our prosecutors apply their minds when they are doing their jobs without any due influence for anyone. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important to understand that the Prosecutor-General has not appointed the Hon. Minister to be the spokesperson – this was on State media. He has not retracted that statement; so may the Hon. Minister then go and talk to the Prosecutor-General to make a statement to the effect that he was misquoted so that we believe it because he is independent and in being independent, it then does not give the credence that the Hon. Minister is talking about of being independent when then the Hon. Minister seems to be questioning him on certain things. He takes no directive from anybody according to the Constitution.
So can there be a statement so that this can then bring closure to this issue from the Prosecutor-General because it was the State owned media that supports the State - it was not the independent media or Star FM. So can we get a statement so that it brings closure to this?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, would you want to
advise that?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member with all due respect, if he believes that I am not the spokesperson, then he was not supposed to ask me that question.
Secondly, without referring to the murmurs from the – [HON. BITI: Murmurs! Ukati mamas then you are referring to something else that is completely different.] – Yes from the murmurs but yes, I like the first one – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I like the first one. Secondly, Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe that being the Minister that administers the Act and being responsible for justice, independent commissions and the Prosecutor-General’s office being one – they do not have audience in Parliament and the Minister tables reports here on their behalf. So I believe that the Hon. Member was not even correct to say that I am not the spokesperson.
I stand by what I said and I believe that there is need for a written statement that I should bring to this august House. I thank you.
HON. DINAR: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question goes to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I would like to know the policy measures the Ministry is putting in place to ensure that
Section 75 (1) (a) of the Constitution, which provides for free, basic –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. DINAR: I would like to know the policy measures the Ministry is taking to ensure that there is free and State sponsored basic education for all Zimbabweans. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA): Thank you Mr. Speaker, I thank the Hon. Member for asking the question. Indeed, Section 75 says something to the effect that eventually, when funds are available, the State is going to provide the education that the Hon. Member is talking about.
HON. DINAR: Mr. Speaker Sir, it does not say when funds are available. If you read the Constitution, it states that the Government should provide, State funded free, basic education for all Zimbabweans.
What steps are you taking to ensure that this is fulfilled? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I have checked Section 75 and it clearly says; ‘must make progressively available and accessible,’ that is what the Hon. Minster said.
HON. PHULU: On a point of clarification Mr. Speaker Sir. Whilst we appreciate the point of the Minister, that it is about resources, there is a duty whenever this question is asked, for the Minister to explain what steps have been taken to progressively realise the right.
So, the Minister must present a framework for the progressive realization of the right and say that we have gone up to so much to progressively realise it and we are left with so much. The principle of progressive realisation cannot be answered by merely saying that there are no resources. The issue of no resources must be couched by saying what steps have been taken progressively and what steps remain.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member for the
clarification.
HON. MATHEMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The State is already providing quite a lot towards the education of our children. If indeed the Hon. Member or the august House is interested to know how much we have moved towards that direction, I am prepared to issue a Ministerial Statement to this august House to show how far – because by law, every child in Zimbabwe has to go to school and not just to school but to receive quality education. I am ready to give a full detailed report on how far we have moved forward.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I understand the Hon. Minister is going to issue a Ministerial Statement on the issue of the examination fee, but the issue that has been asked by Hon. Dinar – he asked about the steps that the Ministry is taking to find basic education...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you sit down. The Hon. Minister will give you blow-by-blow of what has been done so far.
That is sufficient. At that point, then you can ask further questions.
+HON. MKANDLA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Good afternoon
Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and
Mining Development. If he is not in the House then I direct it to the Leader of the House. May the Hon. Minister explain to the House what plans his Ministry has regarding the opening of Kamativi Tin Mine. It has been a long time to be reopened Mr. Speaker Sir; people talk about the history of Kamativi Mine. Kamativi Mine is now inhabited by mice and it is now like a haunted place.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: The question that was raised by the Hon. Member is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining
Development and that is a very specific question which is specific to a particular company. This question should be written down Hon.
Member, can you submit a written question to the Minister.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Health. In light of the outbreak of the Coronavirus, what is Government policy regarding the provision of protective equipment to village health workers who are usually on the frontline of our health awareness campaigns when such outbreaks occur?
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can the Hon. Member repeat the
question please.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care. In light of the outbreak of the coronavirus what is Government policy as regards the provision of protective equipment to our village health workers who are usually on the front line of our health awareness campaigns when such outbreaks occur?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS:
Was it not supposed to be a Ministerial Statement.] – I was not asked to. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to sincerely respect the Hon. Member for the question. The issue of protective equipment is the most essential in this whole exercise and we have made all the plans to get more protective equipment because it shall be on a continuous basis that we will be requiring protective equipment for our members of staff.
HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for allowing me to give updates on the coronavirus situation in the country.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. I think it is question time, an update maybe can come later.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister. Afterwards the Hon. Minister will give an update.
HON. MAYIHLOME: My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Local Government and Public Works. In his absence, I will direct it to the Leader of the House, Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON.
MEMBERS: Minister Chombo is in here.] – THE HON. SPEAKER: The Minister is there.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question will be directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. In light of challenges facing Government in the construction of roads why does the Government not utilise the services of the Defence Forces in construction of roads and other Government public buildings? –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Can we have order? The Hon. Member, it is necessary to distinguish which roads we are talking about. If it is national roads it is the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development and if it is roads within local authorities it is the Minister of Local Government. Would you like to clarify?
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I meant
roads for local authorities and public buildings that are under the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir, because there was commotion, can the Hon. Member repeat the question?
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. In light of challenges in local authorities’ road construction and construction of Government buildings why does the Government not utilise the services of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order!
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you very much to the Hon. Member for the question raised as us as local government engaging the Defence Forces if we fall short of manpower. Indeed wherever we have fallen short, we have engaged the Defence Forces and you can see that when we had problems in Chimanimani we had the assistance of the military. Thank you very much.
HON. CHIZIVA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members on my left, there is no need for praise singing. Let the Hon. Member speak while we listen.
*HON. CHIZIVA: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. I want to know what Government policy is regarding those who generate their own electricity because there is no clear policy regarding that – [HON. KASHIRI: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Kashiri! The Ministerial
Statement is coming.
HON. B. DUBE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to find out if the Speaker is privy to the contents of the Ministerial Statement taking into account that, Mr. Speaker, in the past, we have had many Ministerial Statements where we were ordered to stop speaking then you realise that the Ministerial Statement does not address or answer that particular question. Unless we have a guarantee that Hon.
Chasi has a specific answer to Hon Chidziva’s question, we are not comfortable in having this thing going on.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That observation equally applies to the Hon. Member who has just made that statement. You are neither prophetic also as to whether or not it will be included. That is why when the Hon. Minister has given the Ministerial Statement and there are gaps, you are free to question the Hon. Minister at that stage.
HON. KASHIRI: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. In view of the hyperinflation obtaining in the country, I would like to know what mechanisms the Ministry has put in place to speed up payments for grain delivered to the GMB.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): We are making every effort to pay our farmers as soon as is practically possible given that we have the funds. If we run out of funds, this is another situation. Up to date, I do not know of any complaints from any farmers. If the Hon. Member has specific farmers that have complaints, I would invite him anytime to come to our offices with specific examples.
On the same note, the mechanisms that we have put in place are that we continuously review producer process. As you know Mr. Speaker, yesterday the new producer price of wheat was announced. The price was as follows; for grade A wheat, Grain Marketing Board will pay $14 143.73. Producer prices are continuously being reviewed. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. KASHIRI: Would the Ministry consider payment in terms
of fertilizer so that people can maintain value?
HON. HARITATOS: His suggestion is duly noted and will be considered.
HON. JAMES SITHOLE: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. With reference to the recent promotions of primary and secondary school heads, to what extent did the Ministry realise the promotion of more women administrators? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF MAVIMA): I have not received
the number of females and males who have been promoted recently but there is general policy to say we should move towards equalising the representation of both genders in the leadership, of not just our educational institutions but the public service in general. I am still to see the figures from the recent promotions because they have just been done.
I thank you.
HON. CHIBAYA: I will refer my question to the Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Prof Mavima from Gokwe. Civil servants pension is a percentage of serving civil servants according to defined benefit scheme. Why is it that pension allowances are not being increased at the same with serving civil servants given that we are now living in the hyperinflationary environment? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF MAVIMA): We continuously
review allowances that are paid to pensioners, but I would like the Hon Member to know that we are now moving and we have already started the process of enacting a new Public Service Pensions Fund where it is going to be both defined contributions as well as defined benefits. We think this is going to be in a better position because those resources will be amenable to investment and therefore we will be in a better position to preserve the value of the contributions that the Government is going to make as well as the ones that the employees are going to make. We are in the process of enacting a new Public Service Pensions Fund which will address some of the issues the Member has raised. Thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The import of
the question is around defined benefit scheme. The defined benefit scheme states that the pensioner’s allowance is a certain percent of the serving civil servant. Whilst I acknowledge the response given by the Hon. Minister that there is a scheme being currently drafted, the existing policy is of defined benefits. So why is it that in accordance with the defined benefit scheme at a time a serving civil servants’ salary is increased, it must automatically trigger an increment to the pensioner so that we maintain the percentage? Why are we not simply following our own policy? Thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. To the best
of my knowledge, we have kept to the definition of the benefits that pensioners are supposed to get. The only problem is where we pay lump sum at the end of the serving of a member of the Public Service or the civil servant...
HON. G. K. SITHOLE: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. G. K. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. When the
Hon. Minister is answering, he is referring to the best of his knowledge. We want him to refer to the position of the Government and not to the best of his knowledge. Thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Madam Speaker, Government has not
deviated from that legal position of paying based on defined benefits. I have referred to a situation where the value might have eroded because of the factors that he referred to but we have not deviated from the policy position to pay based on defined benefits. Thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I wanted to know
whether the Hon. Minister of Labour has plans to make a cost of living adjustment on pensioners’ earnings. This is because this issue has been applied even to all civil servants. Civil servants have benefitted from the cost of living adjustment.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Madam Speaker,
the august House would realise that sometime in November or December, there was an adjustment to the amounts that pensioners are receiving. I acknowledge that in most of the cases, these adjustments have already been superceded by the inflation and we will continuously review to make sure that we increase in order to cushion the pensioners both NSSA as well as Public Service pensioners. Thank you.
*HON. B. DUBE: My supplementary question – can Government
not copy plans like offering gratuities after three years? This is because these pensions might not benefit anyone. Since early 2000, Zimbabwe has been continuously changing its currency. Right now, we are talking about the bond note which does not have a specific value. Is there a particular reason or maybe it is because we do not have the ability of copying what other countries are doing? Thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member
refers to a very specific suggestion regarding gratuity, but I have indicated here that given the macro-economic situation that we face, we are continuously reviewing to make sure that whatever is being paid to our pensioners is something that can continue to give them some value.
There could be consideration of that specific suggestion but I have said, given the situation we are continuously reviewing and upgrading the allowances or the pensions that are paid to the pensioners. So, it is basically one in the same thing. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is a very important question and I hope Members of Parliament can pin their ears to this. My question concerns the inconsistency on Government policy on land. There is a section, especially Statutory Instrument 62 of 2020 which is recognising the indigenous farmer owning the land. That is in order. It also talks about compensating the BIPPA farmers – giving back farmers. Is it not inconsistent with the laws of this country, especially Section 72 which I will read out to you so that there is an understanding on this? It reads,
“Section 72 (4) (a) talks about all agriculture land which was itemised in schedule 7 to the former Constitution or (b) before the effective date was identified in terms of Section 16 (b) (2) (a) cannot be taken’. What I am trying to say is, if the Minister intends to give back BIPPA farms, the
Constitution has got to be amended.
He cannot take land which was taken by Government without a constitutional amendment. Why are they going ahead with Statutory
Instrument 62 of 2020? There seems to be inconsistency in terms of Government, in terms of the land. Already, there is an agreement that the white farmers who want to farm can go into a joint agreement and what will happen to those farmers who are already circled on those BIPPA farms if you compensate or you bring back the former farmers? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE & RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Thank you Madam Speaker and thank you Hon.
Member for the question and his passion with regards to Statutory Instrument 62 of 2020. To be very clear with everyone, all agricultural land in Zimbabwe belongs to the State. That is the first and foremost. Secondly, the Hon. Member is correct SI 62 of 2020 refers to indigenous farmers. It also refers to BIPPA. The Hon. Member mentioned that he is happy with indigenous farmers. So I will comment on the BIPA.
Madam Speaker, theS.I is very clear. Former BIPPA farms that were signed prior to land reform; either farmers will be compensated or farmers will receive their land back but if the land is being utilised or Government feels it is impossible to give back that piece of land, that is when Government will go with the compensation route. We will not uproot people unnecessarily.
HON. T. MLISWA: This is a time bomb. We cannot at all give an option in the S.I. of saying that we will give them back the land when already there are people settled. We can compensate. There is no way that you can remove people who are already settled right now. Where do you take them to? It is important that Government sticks to consistency in terms of policy. Who are you trying to please anyway because this land belongs to the nation and it is for the black people? The white farmers are not excited about being compensated or being asked to come back. They even said how can I come back to a farm that I left 20 years ago. So who are you trying to please and who is your master?
HON. HARITATOS: I will go back to my first point. All agricultural land in Zimbabwe belongs to the State. Therefore if Government feel that respective piece of land was under BIPPA agreement and cannot be taken back, we will either compensate or we will find alternative land that is S.I. 62 of 2020.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of clarity is let us admit that Government has certainly accepted – the land reform has not happened and why would it be giving land back to the whites whom we took land away from? Why would you? Have you shifted in policy because you took away indigenisation from the blacks and you have given it to the foreigners? Has Government shifted their policy of giving land back to the whites, yes or no?
HON. HARITATOS: Madam Speaker, we have an obligation; if there are BIPPA farms – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members!
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. HARITATOS: Hon. Speaker, can the Hon. Member ask his question again – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. T. MLISWA: My question to the Minister is simple. Government policy was to take land from the whites and give it to the blacks and now you are taking land from the blacks who are settled and giving it to the whites. Has Government shifted their policy and now giving land back to the whites, yes or no?
HON. HARITATOS: Government policy is clear. We are not going back on the land reform - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. BITI: I believe that the Minister of Justice, as the Leader of the House, as the Minister of Constitutional Affairs, should answer this question. The native fact of S.I. 62 of 2020 is to allow the Government to take back the land it had already given in terms of the land reform programme to its original owners and there are two categories that are mentioned in Section 4 of the regulations. These are indigenous black owners – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I need protection Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Proceed Hon. Biti.
Order Hon. Members, order! You may proceed.
HON. BITI: The Statutory Instrument identifies two categories in Section 4 of people that must get back their original land. First are indigenous black people whose farms were taken. Second are BIPPA owners- in other words land that was protected in terms of BIPPA. The S.I is saying that land must go back to its original owners but there are two problems Madam Speaker and I would like the Leader of the House to answer.
Land, as the Deputy Minister of Lands said, belongs to the State.
But it only belongs to the State by virtue of Constitutional Amendment No. 17 of 2005 which says that all land that was gazetted now belonged to the Government or State and the land that was gazetted was put in the 7th Schedule of the Constitution. The 7th Schedule of the Constitution puts all land that was gazetted to the State. So in order to take land that was gazetted and give it back to someone, you actually need a Constitutional amendment to take away the land from the 7th Schedule to
give it.
Hon. Minister of Justice and the Deputy Minister, you cannot pass S.I. 62 and purport to take away land that was gazetted which belongs to the State without amending the Constitution to actually take that land constitutionally from the 7th Schedule. Why are you doing that which is clearly and patently unconstitutional?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): When the
Constitution became effective on the 22nd of August 2013, the Constitution in terms of Section 295 lists two categories of people that are entitled to full compensation for the land and improvement, that is indigenous farmers and those that were protected by bilateral agreements between Zimbabwe and the other country. Those were entitled to full compensation.
Pursuant to that, we have not been doing that. We have black people who lost their farms through the land reform programme, there was no compensation. This particular S.I. is trying to give effect or to kick-start the process of having that compensation to set it in motion.
Secondly, we have those that are protected by BIPPAs. They are also covered in the Constitution in terms of Section 295 (ii) they are covered. What has been happening is that because it is in our
Constitution, where we were taken to arbitration we have lost dismally. So the Statutory Instrument is trying to say that where the land is lying idle, the best possible thing is to give them the land because it is protected under the Bilateral Investment Promotion Protection Agreement (BIPPA) but where it is not possible, we then discuss the possibility of compensating for both the land and the improvements – that is the net effect of that Statutory Instrument. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, my supplementary question is that the issue of compensation on improvements does not need a Statutory Instrument because it is in the Constitution. What you are doing which you cannot do is to take away that land because the land is covered in the Seventh Schedule which is part of the Constitution. So if you are going to take away anything that is already in the Constitution, then you have to amend the Constitution.
Secondly and in any event Madam Speaker, the issue of land is so important. Why are you using a Statutory Instrument instead of bringing an Act of Parliament where all Hon. Members can debate fully and where there will be public consultation in terms of Section 41 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker, I alluded to the
fact that BIPPAs were constitutionally protected and because they are constitutionally protected, we have been taken to arbitration in certain instances to court and we have lost and been told to pay compensation.
Madam Speaker, if you read the S.I, the import of the S.I is actually speaking to what you are saying that, ‘where it is impossible to bring that particular individual on the land, then we negotiate for full compensation’. We have realised that we went to arbitration and the compensation that we are being asked to pay is exorbitant. What we are doing is that we are honouring the agreement and provisions of the Constitution by negotiating with those who were on the farms. So there is no going back on the Land Reform.
The drafters of this Constitution included them because they realised that we hope to honour our agreements with other nations. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Vatengesa nyika varume ava!] –
HON. GONESE: I have a point of order Madam Speaker in his response. My point of order rises from this fact Madam Speaker
Ma’am, Hon. Biti specifically referred to Amendment No. 17(2005). However, in his response, the Hon. Minister quoted Section 295 (ii) of the current Constitution and that subsection does not relate to what the Hon. Minister quoted. The subsection refers to compensation and does not talk about returning the land back to anyone.
So in terms of his response, the Hon. Minister is actually misleading the House because his reference to Section 295 (ii) that talks about compensation is not applicable to what Hon. Biti raised which is that the land was gazetted in terms of the Seventh Schedule to that
Constitution and you cannot take it back. Legally, it is impossible and this is the issue that the Hon. Minister is not addressing but instead is actually misleading us by quoting a section that is inapplicable to the point – that is my point of order Madam Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa!
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. There is
nowhere in the Constitution where it says, ‘if the State acquires land, they cannot allocate it to anyone.’
*HON. T. MLISWA: That is what we are asking Madam
Speaker, Government owns the land. The point is that Government should be clear on whether it has decided to reallocate the land to the whites. This is State land, Government is the one that has the responsibility of distributing land. So Government is saying, ‘come and we will give you land’, instead of saying, ‘come we will compensate you’. So what are you to say when these white people return because some of the white people are saying, ‘we are not returning to vandalised properties’.
So it must be clear whether Government has changed its policy so that we know whether to return our land to the whites – just that.
*HON. BITI: Hon. Speaker, may I have a point of clarification before the Hon. Minister responds? May I have a point of clarification Hon. Speaker before the Leader of Government Business responds?
Madam Speaker, Government has the right to distribute land to anyone using an Offer Letter – this has been done using the 99 Year
Leases and there is no need for any other law but Government put a new S.I. 62 last Friday which states that those white farmers who had their land repossessed are being given back the land. This is a reversal of the
Land Reform Programme, so it must be clear whether there is change in Government policy regarding the repossessing of land?
How does this happen without amending the Constitution of the land? I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members!
Hon. Members from the Opposition started singing the song,
‘Tengesa uwone mashura!’
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members!
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Hon. Biti is pretending not to understand the Statutory Instrument which was enacted last week, yet he knows the laws but he is trying to misinterpret the law so that it reflects what he wants. What pleased me today Madam
Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Members broke into song: Matengesa Nyika.
Hon. T. Mliswa having been speaking at the top of his voice.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa! – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, I am pleased because the Hon. Members agree on one point that land should be given to black people across the political divide. This is an important issue because in the past we were not talking in one accord.
My second point Madam Speaker is that I said that Hon. Biti spoke prematurely because Statutory Instruments are given to the House by the Executive and they go through the Parliamentary Legal Committee and after examining, the Statutory Instrument is brought to the House for debate. If there is an anomaly, then it is the Hon. Member’s responsibility to identify such discrepancies between the Constitution and the Statutory Instrument. These issues will be debated after the Committee has gone through the Statutory Instrument but the mandate of the Government is to make sure that those black people who were dispossessed should be compensated because there are a lot of issues which must be addressed, particularly the Bilateral Investment and Protection Agreement (BIPA) farms that were repossessed. These are issues which can be discussed in this august House because we have the primary legislative role. Thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker on a point of order. There is a lot of conversation here about white farmers. My question is very simple and the first one is: you took 300 indigenous farms away, now you want to get them back. You are now giving back BIPA farms which were protected by international law. The white people in Zimbabwe, myself being the fourth generation, I want to know clearly from the
Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, am I a
Zimbabwean or am I not? I will ask you why; why are you giving other white people farms but I am only allowed to lease a farm – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Am I a Zimbabwean or am I not– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Matangira having mentioned Mr. D. Mutasa’s name in his exchange of words with Hon. Mliswa.
*HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member is
insulting Cde. Mutasa, urikutukirei nyathi. How does he feature in this debate? Why is he insulting him, you cannot insult Cde. Mutasa… THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Oder, order! Hon. Mliswa, may you approach the Chair – [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] Order, order!
Questions with Notice were interrupted by the Hon. Deputy
Speaker in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): With the
indulgence of the House, since we are closing today, if the Hon.
Ministers with Ministerial Statements can be allowed to present Ministerial Statements and we stand over Questions with Notice.
Motion put and agreed to.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CORONAVIRUS COVID-19 UPDATE
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I give you the update on the Coronavirus. To date there is no confirmed case of Covid19 in Zimbabwe. That is the first statement I want to make…
HON. MARKHAM: On a point of order, Madam Speaker, my
question has not been answered, I want it answered.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Procedurally, we cannot go
back to your question Hon. Markham. May you proceed Hon. Minister. As of the 13th March, 2020, more than 9 500 travelers had been screened at our ports of entry and 278 of those were put on surveillance. Robert Mugabe Airport ….
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker, I think
the issue of Coronavirus is very important. It is a national disaster as explained by the President. I think it is only proper that we all remain silent so that we can hear the Ministerial Statement. We have finished the other issues so it is important that we have order so that we listen to
this.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members,
may you proceed Hon. Minister.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Madam Speaker Ma’am, Robert Mugabe Airport had 6 750 travelers who went through it and 103 of those travelers are under surveillance. Victoria Falls had 1 120 and out those 54 were under surveillance. In Victoria Falls Road, 291 travelers went through and two of those are under surveillance. Joshua Nqabuko Nkomo 957 and 182 are under surveillance. Then Beitbridge, we had 128 and 31 are under surveillance. Plumtree 151 and six are under surveillance. On the 13th March, the National Micro-Biology Laboratory tested 14 suspected cases for COVID -19 and all of them were negative. Their samples were also tested at the WHO regional laboratory in South Africa and they came out as negative.
The global picture, there were 153 517 confirmed cases of COVID-19 and 5 735 deaths which is a 3,7% case fatality rate and this is reported from 144 countries. Europe has become the epicentre of the pandemic with more reported cases and deaths than the rest of the world apart from China. To date, 26 African countries have reported confirmed cases of COVID-19 with four of those countries being SADC Member States, South Africa, Eswathini, Namibia and DRC. Of these, South Africa has reported local spread of COVID-19. The other SADC States have reported imported cases which have largely been imported from Europe.
The country situation, the National Response Mechanism for Surveillance and Early Detection of any possible cases was activated and will remain activated until after the WHO has removed the global health alert. Ministry of Health and Child Care has developed and is implementing the National COVID-19 Preparedness and Response Plan guided by the eight pillars of WHO Strategic Preparedness and
Response Plan. The budget to meet the plan has since been revised to US$25 million from US$5,2 million. The plan will be used to resource, mobilise from Government, international and development partners. The launch of this plan by His Excellency has been scheduled for tomorrow at 8.30 am at State House.
With South Africa reporting local transmission, preparedness measures have been stepped up through intensifying surveillance at national, provincial and district level with special focus on mandatory screening at all our ports of entry throughout the country. Some of the measures include the updating of the response plan providing daily written updates from the borders and also from the Permanent
Secretary’s office.
All hospitals have been put on high alert. SOPs have been prepared and we are ready with all those for self-isolation, surveillance, rapid response teams and so on. The scaling up of the risk communication and community engaged through the electronic and print media has also been scaled up and printed materials to be circulated to all rural areas. Training of all health workers with technical support from WHO is being carried out. Work is in progress to strengthen the capacity of identifying more isolation centres besides Wilkins and Thorngrove hospitals.
Last week, we met with the Global Fund Executive Director to discuss funding for the Covid-19 preparedness and response activities. The Global Fund has committed 5% of the US$500 million from the Global Fund grant to Zimbabwe. This works out to US$25 million. We are also grateful to the UK Ambassador who called in to have a meeting with us. Mrs Melanie Robinson and the United Kingdom has committed additional support to our Government to a total of £1,7 million. The World Health Organisation has also provided technical support to the Ministry’s Preparedness and Response Plan.
We have also had support from China and they have successfully been able to give us money for the renovations of our Wilkins Hospital and they will be moving to Thorngrove Hospital as well. Confirmatory tests kits have also been procured and we have also received donations of the same from the WHO, Africa CDC, United Kingdom Government and the Chinese Government. Rapid diagnostic test kits have also been procured. The training of doctors, nurses, laboratory scientists and environmental health officers continues. This also includes the uniformed forces. Identification of additional potential isolation facilities and additional isolation wings to the existing public health institutions is in progress.
Treasury support for strengthening and intensifying surveillance; Treasury has released RTG$20 million. Additionally, Treasury has released a provision of US$250 thousand. This has been set aside ...
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: On a point of order
Madam Speaker, I am sure the Minister knows that one of the things that is being said about managing and prevention is that we constantly have some ventilation. We do not have ventilation now. Perhaps, we could have it for a few minutes just to make sure that air is circulating. Please, we ask staff to put some ventilation.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your point of order has been
noted.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Part of the preparedness is identification of a company to assist in border control and contact tracing. I was so happy to hear that Parliament is adjourning because definitely like the Hon. Member has indicated, this room is a disastrous area where we can have an easy spread of the virus in seconds – [HON. MEMBERS: Ko kuzvikoro.] –
Risk allowances for personnel working at isolation facilities is also being organised; modification of the quarantine and isolation facilities; personal protective equipment including disease control suits and laboratory supplies is what this money from Treasury is going to be used for. It must be emphasised however, that there is a huge demand and competition for personal protective equipment. All the countries are fighting for this small number of equipment which is available but we continue to explore ways of expediting these and engage local industry to explore possibilities of local production of some of the personal protective equipment including masks, gowns and hand sanitisers.
Cabinet also with immediate effect adopted the following;
- Implementation of the social distancing measures, for example suspension of mass gatherings as the Independence Day
Celebration and ZITF which were scheduled for Bulawayo.
- Immediate suspension of all gatherings of more than 100 people including church gatherings, weddings, burial ceremonies for a period of 60 days.
- Travelers from high risk countries with widespread on going local transmission to be strongly discouraged from travelling to Zimbabwe for the next period of 30 days starting tomorrow.
- All airlines to be advised of the restrictions.
- Discouraging Zimbabweans from traveling to and through high risk affected countries.
- Item surveillance including Covid-19 testing of people arriving from high risk countries.
- Non-essential travel to be discouraged by all sectors and individuals.
- Continue to institute precautionary measures of personal hygiene like frequent hand washing with soap followed by use of an alcohol base sanitiser.
- Avoidance of unnecessary hand shaking or unnecessary physical contact with others.
- Ensure hygiene standards are maintained at high levels by shopping centres, public offices and buildings including
Parliament.
The declaration of the pandemic was done by His Excellency as a national disaster. We are also looking at the launching of the plan itself which I said will be held tomorrow. The plan includes the eight pillars as stated by the World Health Organisation and includes coordination; planning and monitoring; risk communication and community engagement; surveillance, rapid response and case investigation; the points of entry; the national laboratory; infection prevention; control case management; operational support and logistics.
Madam Speaker, this is my report, my update for today. I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement. My first question is to do with airport surveillance. I was travelling a few weeks ago and I am not sure what is being used for surveillance; is it the travelers manifest or is it when you ask people. A lot of people were just being asked on the queue questions like – where are you coming from? You could tell that some of them were not telling the truth. At what point is that surveillance working because if you say to me where are you coming from, I can just tell you I am coming from Nairobi when I am coming from somewhere else.
Can we have an appreciation of why we still have Ethiopian Airlines coming direct from China to Zimbabwe because most of the countries have since banned airlines that are coming directly from China?
On the schools – why are we not closing schools, particularly as we are aware that many of the schools do not have running water, let alone, the soap that you are talking about? Why not close schools because we are only left with about two weeks?
Training and management; why is it not possible for us to have created a toll-free number so that people can phone in to people that are medically trained like what is being done in the United Kingdom? You merely phone in, indicate your symptoms and somebody tells you whether there is a problem or you do not have a problem. In other words, you are expecting somebody from Tsholotsho to come and explain that they have a cold or something, I do not think that works.
Can we have a system which deals with the issues that are being thrown on the social media, at least beginning to censure or arrest because the kind of panic that is being created around social media posting does not work?
Testing mechanism – do we have enough testing kits to test people in this country given that the developed and bigger countries do not also have the capacity to do the testing that we are talking about?
HON. MUSHAYI: Thank you Hon. Minister for the Ministerial
Statement. When I was doing a feedback meeting with the people from Kuwadzana during the weekend, some of the people that are coming from this constituency work in a factory in Norton and they said that the Chinese who are the owners of that particular factory are travelling in and out. This issue of self isolation is not happening because they are having contact with them everyday even though they are claiming that they are on self isolation. We need to hear a formula from you on how we are going to be dealing with circumstances of this nature.
Secondly, when people are queuing for the ZUPCO buses, they are even more than 100, how are we going to deal with this particular situation in terms of making sure that we have adhered to the recommendation of social distancing? The reality is that there will be over 100 people queuing and when they get into the bus, they will be packed like sardines, back to back. How are we going to make sure that those situations do not in any way encourage passing on of
Covid- 19.
HON. MPOFU: I am not sure if this point escaped me. I think the Minister made it clear that rigorous testing is obviously going to happen at all our border posts. May we know whether it also means that we have quarantine centres at all our border posts? I thank you.
HON. ZENGEYA: I have heard the Minister talking about suspension of all mass gatherings for quite a while but I would want to know, what is Government doing pertaining to those people who live in highly congested areas like Mbare in Matapi? Eventually, we are going to see there is going to be a high spread of Covid-19.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. On television we
are seeing other countries disinfecting their congested areas like airports. What is the Ministry of Health doing concerning this to combat the spread of infections?
*HON. MABOYI: Thank you Hon. Minister for explaining what
is happening. I want to ask about Beitbridge Border Post. I went there to check what is going on. I found out that there is nothing happening in terms of protecting people. There were a lot of people crossing the border; the testing machines were very few compared to other countries. People are dying in South Africa and their bodies expatriated to Zimbabwe but there seems to be nothing going on to protect people from this disease. The workers at the border had no protective clothes like face masks and gloves. I am worried about this, maybe yesterday something was done but on Saturday there was nothing.
I also went to the Registrar General’s offices and a lot of people were collecting their identity documents, there was no protection.
Officers who were taking finger prints were touching people’s hands without gloves or hand sanitizers; maybe it was corrected yesterday, I would not know about the matter.
HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam Speaker. Can the Hon.
Minister enlighten this House about the state of preparedness in Bulawayo hospitals?
HON. NYATHI: Madam Speaker, my question arises from the question that was asked by Hon. Mpofu concerning the village health workers who are the front line of this country in terms of looking after our sick. My question is, what is Government policy on the remuneration of village health workers? What is it that the Government is doing to remunerate these people given the Coronavirus and the environment in which they work?
HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to
make a follow up; if you go to maternity wards, they are asked to buy their gloves for delivery. It clearly shows that as a nation, we are not prepared. If we cannot even buy some gloves for the waiting mothers, it shows that in the hospital sometimes we do not even have those gloves.
So, how prepared are we to make sure that if this virus comes to Zimbabwe, we will be able to deal with it because I do not think we are ready. We visited Wilkins Hospital the day before yesterday with Advocate Nelson Chamisa, the state there clearly shows that as a nation we are not ready. Yes, the renovations are happening but right now if we are to have more than 5 or 10 people, it shows that we are not ready.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker
my question is on the ban for gatherings of 100 or more people. How is this ban going to be enforced? Is it going to be self-centered or it is going to be enforced by the police. If so, what is the penalty of breaking the law under the circumstances?
*HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
enquire about the referral centres for corona patients. Now we only have Bulawayo and Harare but we are going to have people who will be coming from all over the country, Mutare and so forth. How prepared is Government on increasing or updating the referral centres because at
Wilkins Hospital, it can only house 38 patients. If we have an outbreak, how are we going to deal with this because the one in Bulawayo also cannot exceed this number?
On doctors, the information we have is that doctors are afraid to meet people who test positive for Covid-19. How many doctors are going to be willing to treat Covid-19 patients? On the issue of Mbare Musika, they are over 10 000 people who are doing their normal businesses there. What steps is Government taking regarding those places?
There is a ban on church gatherings but with the way this disease is spreading and without medicine. For us to succeed we need to pray. If you ban churches, how are we going to overcome the disease without prayers?
*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to
ask the Minister whether it is true or how far true it is that black people are not affected by the Coronavirus, they can resist the disease?
*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I stood up to thank the Minister. Thank you for the knowledge you gave us that we can go back to our constituencies and tell our constituents. We thank you very much for giving us that information – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!
*HON. SARUWAKA: Madam Speaker, my question to the Minister is I want to understand, Minister, a few days back, the words which were astonishing, words which do not show wisdom, which were uttered by the Minister of Defence and War Veterans regarding
Coronavirus where she mentioned that the disease was a punishment to America because of sanctions. I want to understand how much this has made your work difficult? Those words were not accepted by the whole world yet we, as a country survive on begging. We do not have enough, we always get assistance. The assistance comes mainly from western countries. I want to understand how these words have made your job difficult?
As the Minister of Health and Child Care, have you taken any care to explain to other Cabinet Ministers about the disease, so that when they are given an opportunity to talk about the disease, they do not end up embarrassing themselves and the country at large because of their ignorance of the disease.
Lastly Minister, people from Mutasa Central are saying this disease, Coronavirus, is it known by Government or Minister
Muchinguri-Kashiri that the source of the disease is China – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –Does she understand that the source of the disease is China and not America?
*HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Hon. Togarepi said the word pfutseke to Hon. Saruwaka when he was asking his question – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members order!
*HON. CHIKWINYA: I do not think that is Parliamentary language and we do not expect such words from the Chief Whip. I therefore ask that he withdraws that word.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is it true that you said the word pfutseke.
HON. TOGAREPI: I did not say anything like that but – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We will check in the
Hansard if he really said those words.
HON. MASHONGANYIKA: On a point of order Madam
Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order
Hon. Mashonganyika?
*HON. MASHONGANYIKA: Madam Speaker, we were
requesting that the Minister answers the questions. A lot of questions have been asked. We might end up not hearing some answers to certain questions and some questions are being repeated. Thank you.
*HON. CHITURA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. With the Coronavirus coming, is there anything being done by Government about second hand clothes that are getting into the country?
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to
appreciate the interest shown by the Members of Parliament on this particular issue of Covid-19. This is very impressive. You cannot come to a debate where we are talking about such a very important subject and you do not get the chance. However, it would be too many of us and there would be repetitions.
The main issue I want to point out before I even start answering any of these questions is that in epidemiology, what you work with is what is called sector control, community control. Everything where there is an outbreak is an issue of control. Whether it is a small town, if there is an outbreak, you isolate and you control that particular area and this particular issue we are dealing with now is no longer just an epidemic, it is now a pandemic – worldwide. If at all we should have been looking at China and isolating it, but it is too late to talk about that now.
What we now have to do is to control and make sure nothing gets into clean Zimbabwe. At the moment, we are clean in Zimbabwe. Whoever wants to challenge that is a follower of misleading information from the social media. Social media will make us die in Zimbabwe if we follow them. We should not follow the social media and whoever wants to challenge my statement is someone who is not progressive, is someone who wants to see Coronavirus in Zimbabwe. We do not want to have Coronavirus in Zimbabwe. We do not want Coronavirus in Zimbabwe and that is the reality. Let us argue sensibly rather than arguing in a manner which does not assist us – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MAPHOSA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Minister– [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. DR. O. MOYO: We have to be serious just like the questions which were asked. Those were serious questions which is good. The other issues that are coming after that are not relevant. I want to indicate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! On a point of order
Minister!
*HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. What
prompts us to rise is because we are worried about what is happening in the country. I would like to ask that the Minister must not be emotional and angry because what we are trying to do is that we understand the nature of the coronavirus, so it is my plea that instead of being angry and emotional the Hon Minister should clarify issues that are bothering us.
*THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: I would like to plead with the Minister not to be emotional when responding to questions from Hon. Members. In the same vein, I also urge Hon. Members to stop making noise and listen attentively to the Minister so that you do not repeat the same questions.
*HON. DR. O. MOYO: I have not started answering questions.
All the questions that are being asked are pertinent questions. These are very important questions. However, I spoke about social media which is misinforming the nation by saying a lot of things which are like wishful thinking that Coronavirus should come. Hon. Members are raising pertinent questions. No one asked anything that is negative. Regarding airport surveillance, I said that CONTROL is the key word that I am going to continue repeating. We need to make sure that we have sealed our entry points. In learning how to exercise that control regarding the Coronavirus and as people who are experiencing this for the first time, I would not lie that there are bad things that are happening at the border posts or airports. If you discover such things, you must inform us so that we deal with such issues. I was so glad hearing Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga saying that she went past an entry point and she was not impressed with what was happening. This is what I am going to take and we want to emphasise that we want things to be corrected.
Yes, we heard that the Ethiopian airline is coming but what the President said when he alluded to airlines was that all airlines would be told that Zimbabwe’s entry points have been sealed. This is important information which will be communicated so that more people get the message and they do not just travel. This is a measure which is meant to prevent the permeation of the virus.
Please let us not forget that it is not China but Europe which has become the epicenter of this virus. South Africa in our sub region has a higher number of people who have been infected. We heard the
American President saying that he no longer wants Europeans to go to America. However, as Zimbabwe we are saying that we are going to introduce control mechanisms epidemiology which is scientifically proven and step up as the situation gets worse through scientific study. You will discover that schools were left open because we sat down and deliberated on the issue. Zimbabwe does not have cases of Coronavirus at the moment and as such, our border points should exercise control so that the virus does not come.
HON. S. BANDA: On a point of order. Should we wait until our children are affected so that we close schools when children start dying?
There are 65 children in a class and we are suggesting that schools should be closed like what has happened here at Parliament. It should apply to schools.
*HON. DR. O. MOYO: I was still explaining before getting to the crux of the matter, then the Hon Member interjected. I wanted to allude to that fact of schools. Let me go to control measures, the same control measures that we are putting in place are control measures that are in a clean environment. We need to take into cognizance the fact that schools are left with a few days before closing and we need to work on setting control measures and checks.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, regarding the closure of schools, this is an issue which we analysed. We considered the few remaining days and also the composition of the classrooms, as to how many children are found in a class. The Minister of Primary and Secondary Education is in this House and he knows the issue. He is aware. Headmasters will be taught about hygienic issues. They will be taught that children are not expected to be assembled exceeding the numbers that have been prescribed by Government. To me these are control measures which will be put in place.
We will go round looking at what is obtaining at these schools. This is an open issue. We are operating at different levels. When we experience a particular level, we can determine that schools must be closed. When we see that schools should be closed before the closing date, then schools will have to close. It is not cast in concrete.
We have environmental health officers going around the country assessing these issues that we are debating on, particularly what is happening in schools. We need to look at what exactly is happening.
Control measures are being put in place, training – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Madam Speaker, I would like to say that...
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Minister. Order
Hon. Nzuma. Hon. Members, can I ask you a question - if you continue heckling the Minister the way you are doing, do you think the Minister will just say okay I have heard you and we are closing schools? Is that proper? You have made a point and the Hon. Minister heard your point. May you take your seats so that the Minister can continue presenting to the House? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- The
Minister has heard, may you allow him to continue?
*THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Let me explain that in every stage when things evolve, there are changes now and again. Even the closure of schools might happen as we analyse the evolving situation. When we determine that the situation is no longer allowing, we will do that. Let me talk about training – there are some toll free numbers that are being used. This is a very good idea which we adopted. We will announce toll free numbers tomorrow when we launch our blueprint.
This is a good development so that when the public wants to ask, they can just call these toll free numbers and there are also other social media platforms like WhatsApp where people can get responses and answers regarding the virus. A follow-up on social media, particularly those who mislead the nation – something happened yesterday. There was a false press release which was saying that the University of Zimbabwe was closed. The person who created and posted such a false communication was arrested. Lying is not allowed. We are going to allow the responsible authority to make a decision regarding that person.
Madam Speaker, there was a question regarding the test kits and the other kits whether they are adequate. I would respond and say no, at the moment we do not have enough kits. These kits are problematic to procure and to get them. So, we are going to continue soliciting for these kits, but we want to save the kits that we have for those who have signs and symptoms that are in line with WHO case definition.
The Norton factory, the question was that there are some people who are evidently ill of different races. Our environmental health workers go to that factory every day to identify and to examine such people. Yes, we have Chinese people who work at the factory. The Chinese authority at that factory is putting those who are considered to be at risk in quarantine. They are being quarantined at that particular facility. We also go as an authority to examine the factory.
The other point is bus queues which exceed 100 people. This is where environmental health officers will play an active role. The police will also play an active role in exercising control. Bus crews are also being educated so that they do not overload their buses. The other thing is tests that are being run at the border posts. We have a temperature check at every border point. A temperature check reflects that that particular person has an ailment. So because of that, anyone with a high temperature is taken to quarantine so that that person is examined.
We identified areas in all border posts and airports so that anyone who gets ill and has a high temperature is taken to a quarantine area. These quarantine areas are there at all ports of entry. We are going to continue increasing these areas and we are also going to establish isolation areas. There is a difference between a quarantine and an isolation area. A quarantine area is a holding area for those who are taken to quarantine.
However, anyone who tests positive will be taken to an isolation centre. Areas like Mbare were a subject of discussion. We are going to target such areas. Environmental health officers are going to go to these places and they will educate the public using public speakers as a control measure. Disinfection of areas – a question was raised whether
Government has plans to do that. At the moment Government can disinfect a building using knapsacks. Government does not have bigger machines like fumigation trucks but we are targeting buildings using knapsacks.
There is the issue concerning Beitbridge border post which is also an area that we are focusing on as Government. We urge our officers to continue. When you feel that you are tired before completing your duty, you must ask your colleague to help you. We are having task forces involve the Immigration, police and other officials. We need to work together so that we address that issue. This coming week, I am going to Beitbridge Border Post personally so that if there are any corrections that must be done, we do those corrections.
Our environmental health teams are going to go to Mbare. You will hear that this coming week we will be having hailers which will be going around announcing and educating the public.
Isolation hospitals in Bulawayo, first we had the Thorngrove Hospital. We are also working on other hospitals like Mpilo, UBH and other hospitals are going to be equipped. We are planning to equip every hospital in Zimbabwe so that one or two rooms are identified for quarantining and isolating suspected cases of Coronavirus.
One Hon. Member alluded to village health workers – yes, these are assisting the communities. They are also working as voluntary workers who get a minimal allowance from NGOs. Government is also working on coming up with remuneration for such people.
Hon. Karenyi spoke about the ‘wait and see’ approach. The control measures are those that I have already alluded to. As a nation, this is what we can do at the moment. We also focus on how China is giving us assistance at Wilkins Hospital.
As a nation, let me also thank churches. We appreciate that churches are continuing to pray for the nation – yes Hon. that is very true but we do not want churches to be sources of transmission of the virus because if one person is infected within thousands of people then the rest of the people will contract the virus. The ban is being enforced through various organs like environmental health workers, the Home Affairs Department and our national police. When police go around patrolling, they would make sure that the law is being adhered to or not.
Regarding health care workers and doctors preparedness to address or to deal with the situation without panicking; yes this has happened. We have been doing a number of training courses on a continuous basis at Wilkins Hospital. Doctors and health care workers converge at this hospital to be trained. They continue coming for training.
Another Hon. Member asked whether this virus affects black people or not; this is a myth which was being perpetuated by the social media but there is no scientific proof to that effect that black people cannot contract Covid-19.
Another Hon. Member asked whether the Minister of Defence’s statement is not affecting the Government’s effort to raise money from other countries – this issue was addressed by His Excellency the President when he said that Covid-19 is not targeted to a particular nation or people but it affects the whole world.
The issue regarding the epicentre – yes, China also has that but it is not only the epicentres but there are other epicentres of the virus. I hope
I have addressed all the questions
Every member of the august House should continue working hard. Let us work together to eradicate the Coronavirus because we might die arguing and heckling instead of working together.
Regarding school children, I said that we should not worry because what has been raised will be deliberated on. It is not casting stone but when we discovered that we need to close schools, that is why we sent environmental health workers to analyse and to study the situation. Right now, they are on the ground. If they indicate that we need to close schools, we are going to close them.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Since our nation has been receiving
donations like rice from China, are there no donations in transit to Zimbabwe that have been en-route before the announcement of the virus? Are there any measures that Government is doing to make sure that such donations do not come with the virus to Zimbabwe?
Is there any proof that what we are getting as donations is not infected with the virus?
The Government’s measures that were announced yesterday – are there any talks within the ministries regarding the declaration, whether the declaration is binding or not? If anyone violates such a declaration, what is going to happen to that person? It seems as if there is no constitutional backing to the directive that was given? Does it mean that Government did not find any clause or section in the Constitution which supports the declaration because in the past there are some churches which do not take heed of Government’s directives. We want to know what penalties are going to be given to those who are going to violate the directive? It seems as if there is no constitutional backing to the directive that was given. Does it mean that Government did not find any clause or section in the Constitution that supports the declaration?
In the past, there were some churches that we know of that do not heed Government directives. So we want to know what penalties are going to be given to those who are going to violate the directive. Also, the issue that churches should not meet or they meet for fewer or less hours like two hours, I am saying this because whenever we start Parliament, we start by praying meaning that we value prayer. So churches must have reduced hours of praying and worship.
Lastly, let me say that when the Hon. Minister alluded to the global outlook on the Coronavirus, there is an issue that was not addressed by the Hon. Minister but was raised in this House which I believe is an opportunity for the Hon. Minister to explain to the whole country that there is what was said by the Hon. Minister of Defence and War
Veterans that the Coronavirus is punishment from God. The Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care should clarify that so that it is clear to other countries because countries like China that supported Zimbabwe during Cyclone Idai need to understand and be clear after the Hon.
Minister has clarified the point.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, I
wanted to know about the health workers that the Hon. Minister alluded to. When they are moving around assessing, what do they use that is scientific and on measures, what is happening? Do they collect any samples or they just observe? It is clear that the elderly are the most affected especially when the virus has attacked a particular nation. What is Government doing to prevent the elderly from contracting the virus?
My last question is, is it up to the people not to gather or it is up to the Government using Government directives and authority for example, the point that people gathered in Nyanga today? My question is, is it up to the people or up to Government to allow people to meet or not?
+HON. MABOYI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to add
onto what has been contributed by the rest of the Hon. Members. We have challenges especially along the Beitbridge-Bubi main road where people have built shacks there doing their cooking and selling businesses along the road. We ask the Hon. Minister to help by telling us what is going to happen to these people who have built shacks along the main road? I thank you.
*HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker, let me say
that the Hon. Minister spoke very well especially on the use of kits. It is good because we tell the truth when we are in this House and we must understand what is happening.
The Hon. Minister explained the fact that acquiring the kits is a major challenge even in the United States of America, meaning that even us with our economic crisis; it would be difficult for us as a country to access these kits. However Madam Speaker, we represent people and I think that whenever they conduct environmental health assessments where they will be educating people, as Members of
Parliament, we interact with people more - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Order,
order Hon. Members, may the Hon. Member be heard in silence.
*HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker for the
protection. Madam Speaker, I was talking about Hon. Members that leaders in our communities, it would be good for us to be taught on the Coronavirus outside this Parliament so that we can educate our constituents when we go out there.
Secondly, there is a marked shortage of sanitisers in local shops. There are some rich people who can afford to buy their own sanitisers to sanitise their hands against the virus. What is Government doing to make the sanitisers available in the shops?
Lastly Madam Speaker, this morning, myself as a Member of Parliament, Joanna Mamombe and the Secretary General Hon. Hwende were at the High Court. What surprised me was that hundreds of people enter the High Court on daily basis yet there are no sanitisers or any form of protection against the virus at the court entrances. We are talking about preventing the disease yet our important institutions like the courts where many people gather, there are no sanitisers. We would not recommend for the courts to be closed but there must be measures in place to protect people. Still on the courts, I also want to talk about our prisons where there are more than hundreds of people. What is
Government doing to prevent the disease from affecting prisoners?
Before I sit down Madam Speaker, in different countries that the
Hon. Minister mentioned, the likes of the United States of America, we saw the leaders especially the President, Donald Trump voluntarily being tested for the virus. He was the first to be tested for Coronavirus – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, I am saying this because I follow news on current affairs and if other Hon. Members are not following the news then it is their problem. The President of the United States of America, Donald Trump came out in the open, led by example and was tested for Covid-19. We are not seeing it in this country.
Hon. Mthuli Ncube even went to Norway where there are several cases of the Coronavirus. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We want the Hon. Minister to tell us whether or not Hon. Ncube volunteered to be tested for Covid-19 upon his return from Norway. We want these things to be said openly so that other people understand the importance of this disease. As a leader, if you are tested first then those who follow you will be tested too. Hon. Mthuli Ncube should be tested and the results made public. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to
understand from the Minister of Health and Child Care; I saw that South Africa announced a ban of gatherings of more than 100 people and immediately Zimbabwe did the same. What is the scientific basis of 100? We are a poor country, can we not reduce the number, what is there in 100.
The Minister mentioned a big number of people who are under surveillance, why are they under surveillance, what is the basis? Is it because they have come from countries where they are questionable or they have tested positive or shown symptoms? I have been checking with the nurses from the District Medical Officer up to the village health workers for both Hwange, Victoria Falls and Binga, those are high traffic areas, there is no training that they have undergone but the Minister is talking of training. What is the strategy they are using to train these medical staff because those areas have not received training?
Lastly Madam Speaker, in Victoria Falls, a British tourist came to
Victoria Falls and was treated for malaria but when she went back to Britain she was tested positive to coronavirus. What is the Government doing to check on all those people she was in contact with? This was on
BBC and Aljazeera and it is something which is being talked about. The Minister has not mentioned it. What is going to happen to all the people that the sick tourist has been in contact with? Thank you.
HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My
question to the Minister was; what is the state of preparedness in Bulawayo? His answer was, there are hospitals, there is Mpilo Hospital, there is UBH and Thorngrove Hospital. I am asking about the state of preparedness because I heard that Thorngrove will be the hospital that will be like Wilkins. However, what has been done, because there is nothing in Bulawayo Minister, that is why I am asking you, that is where I come from. It is a metropolitan city and as I am talking now, people in Bulawayo want to hear what has been done in preparing Thorngroove hospital to be the referral hospital where these patients will be housed.
As far as I know and read from the papers, we had a case in Bulawayo of a person who came from South Africa. Where is that person housed?
We want to know as Bulawayo. Thank you.
*HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I heard the
Minister saying that you want to take hailers to Matapi. I do not think it is good – there are many people there, more than 100. The hailer will attract more people to gather. I am requesting that if you have any sanitisers, you give us and we distribute in their homes, many people live at the same home. I see that we have closed Parliament because of this disease and we are looking forward that when we open the Minister of Health and Child Care gives us notes which we will use to address the people. We do not even know what it is, you have not explained it to us, you just said we have to close the House. We want you to assist us, seeing that the Vice President of this country left Wilkins Hospital going to China to get assistance – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to
return to the issue of testing. Can the Minister clearly state to us the capacity of Zimbabwe on what we can test, where and how many test we can do per day and if we are getting assistance from other outside countries to do our current test because in his own words, we have very little. Thank you.
*HON. MAKONYA: Which steps are you taking as the
Government since there is shortage of food in our country. There is no mealie-meal for people in urban areas; people are queuing for roller meal in supermarkets and they will be more than 100 people. These people are in constant contact with each other as they clamour for roller meal. What are you going to do about this?
*HON. MUGIDHO: Thank you Madam Speaker: I heard the
Minister talking about school children that he will speak to headmasters that pupils do not go on breaks. However, looking at these children, the toilets which they use are left in a mess; a child in Early Childhood Education (ECD), how can you stop them to go for breaks. In some schools, they have 4000 to 5000 children. We are requesting that the Minister explain and close schools because it is dangerous for our children.
Secondly, the canons for water, these canons will be spraying people with water during demonstrations. Why can we not put disinfectants in those cars to disinfect areas which are affected because when MDC people gather, these cars are used? We have cars which usually spray people during demonstrations; these can be used to spray in hospital, schools and other public places instead of saying he is going to speak to headmasters when our kids are dying.
*HON. MAFUTA: Thank you Madam Speaker, in other countries
like in Kenya, they were encouraging the use of plastic money and mobile money but in this country it is quiet. What are you saying about money because the virus can be found on money also, what are you doing about it?
*HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker, the first issue is that we request that in places like Mount Pleasant, if you could bring mobile sanitizers. We have seen some people running away from hospitals, a person was caught in Mount Pleasant driving a Fortuner. Lastly, the President of my party developed what is called Zimlog.
There were good ideas which were proffered by president Chamisa – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - if he could look at them and see what he can pick. Thank you.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Yes,
we should all be wary and fear Coronavirus but you now have to realise that the epicenter has also changed from China. The number of cases in China is much lower than the confirmed cases in Europe. If we have to fear, which is what I want to pacify at this stage that food availability, we have always said we will give way and allow for food to come into the country.
Madam Speaker, the whole world is covered with this virus. So, whatever is coming into the country, we assume that it is perfect. The issue regarding the gatherings of churches, I think what has been stated is what will happen otherwise we will be flip-flopping. Kana tati toita 100 tongoramba tiri pa 100 ipapo otherwise we will end up causing confusion. Yes, the issue regarding the statement which was issued, I think the President was very clear, we all read it in the papers in answer to the statement which was made by the Minister of Defence. I would like to think that that was adequate. We all heard it and most of the embassies I am sure got the President’s response. The President humbled himself and he went to the extent of clarifying that picture.
On the environmental health workers standards, they use the World Health Organisation Standards. That is what we use, wherever they go, they have to assess the particular venue; they have got the checklist. The checklist is what they follow. If there is a restriction of the number of people who are to be at a particular venue, they will check to see the number of toilets which are available. That is why you see for instance there was that instance that all the Apostolic Church gatherings need to have some form of toilets and we calculated for them how many they should be and portable toilets and also blair toilets.
I was very impressed to hear an Hon. Member talking in terms of the elderly. I think that is a relevant question, we must never forget the elderly. They are the most vulnerable in as far as respiratory problems are concerned. They catch these diseases so quickly than young people. So, we are also looking into that aspect. Yes they were talking about inviting people from the old peoples’ homes. We have old peoples’ homes in this country. We will educate them and at the same time as we also go round, we must be able to impart the knowledge to those who are looking after our elderly at home so that they are not affected as easily as they should not be. So, the elderly should be protected by all means. I cannot really recall Hon. Madzimure’s question on zviri kuvanhu here.
*HON. MADZIMURE: I was saying that is it up to the public to
determine whether to gather or not or it is the responsibility of Government to allow people to gather or not to gather.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am, we received the
information yesterday and we are now moving with the instruction, naturally we have to alter here and there and take chances sometimes especially this time when we are talking about it. I will walk the talk, do not worry, we will walk the talk and continue doing the right thing. So, it is Government which gives instruction and it is Government which expects those instructions to be followed.
I want to mention that it is the disease which will cause us to change our behaviour. We just have to follow that in order to conquer that disease. We must do everything against what it wants us to do and gatherings is one of those issues. On the issue of shacks which are along the Beitbridge road, that is a long term, where we need to ask provincial teams to visit and educate people. It is a matter of control measures and control measures will come through education and awareness.
On the availability of kits, yes, I cannot claim to say that we are fully stocked with kits to be able to test each and every Zimbabwean, then I will be misleading you. The reality is that we have to utilise the kits appropriately. We have to utilise the kits for cases which are relevant, utilise the kits for all those cases which meet the WHO clinical case definition. At the same time, however, we are trying to source for more kits. We saw the Americans now have a company called Roche which they have chosen to produce kits for them. We are also going to approach companies like Roche and the Chinese companies who are already testing and their testing mechanisms are now going down.
Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member also wanted to know about the actual testing mechanisms. Let me educate you again. We all know about HIV rapid test. That is the way we should be doing things right now. We should be using the rapid test kits for the testing and they take 15 minutes. The rapid test kits, if it comes out positive - it is not necessarily that it is positive. You would still need to go for a confirmatory test which is now the PCR test which is what we are using in Zimbabwe, which takes five hours. That is the gold standard for testing. It is a process. At the moment we have gone for the definitive test, the gold standard because we do not have the Rapid Test Kits. When we say we want to have a full classified testing system, we want to have those two platforms to be in place.
The issue regarding sanitisers, I want to confess that only today I had about 5 – 6 local companies who are manufacturing sanitisers and they are coming out indicating the possibility of them doubling the quantities. What is required is the alcohol base which we can get from the sugar plantations in Triangle and these companies will be able to double up. The universities are also in a position to produce ethanol which is used for these bases. We want to initially ensure that we up the production of the sanitisers utilising the local companies. It is also good business for them. That is the alcohol which they will be producing because the sanitisers - the base is alcohol and the soapy material is then introduced into that.
The courts are classified again. The Hon. Member indicated that they went to court this morning and found there were a lot of people, and they are worried. Yes, you are correct to be worried. We have said all the courts are part and parcel of the buildings and declaration which was made. All the Government buildings - Parliament included, have got to have adequate sanitisers. So, the sanitiser manufacturers are coming at the right time. All those court buildings will also be protected.
You would like the top executive to be tested. We have to follow the case definition, the WHO case definition. We all agree that there are shortages of test kits and we cannot just willy nilly start testing, but if there is a case definition or someone who meets a case definition, naturally they will be tested, whichever category they are. Why 100? The Hon. Member wanted us to reduce the number, but I feel 100 is a relevant number and also helps because if we come down to 50 and we leave it at 50, we feel that 100 is manageable for us to be able to do contact tracing. That is the maximum and anything below that we can be able to contact trace. If we are to go up to 150 or 200, it becomes too much for the purpose of contact tracing.
The issue of surveillance, surveillance in epidemiological terms means following up and looking at a particular incident at a particular parameter and making sure that that parameter is kept within the correct level – that is survellance. Surveillance also entails going out and making sure that what you have put out to be surveyed is being followed. So it is a follow up process, we do surveillance using the thermal detectors and then we do surveillance by following up those people who would have been put up under the surveillance scheme on a daily basis. Like I said we now have 378 cases and we are following them up. We have to follow up and make sure that their 21 days is being followed. As we reach the 21 days, we drop the number of cases and so on and then there will be more coming and it carries on. It is a process.
The issue of training at the provincial and district level, Victoria Falls and Hwange districts. In particular, that is an area where we have also said we are training people and you realise that the people who have been attending to the cases there are already familiar with what they have to do, because they came here to Harare and were trained at Wilkins. What we want to do from what you have just said is we want to enhance training so that it cascades further down. We have no problem with that. We will make sure that is done. It is an instruction which they have to follow because every one, including those in the smallest hospitals to be able to attend to these patients and manage them appropriate.
The issue of the UK case that you were talking about, we talked about it. This is as a result of information which came out of the lodge where this person was staying. They have gone back to the UK and the people in the UK have them as suspect case. It is something which we are following up and we want to get to the bottom of it. Otherwise according to the reports that we have received, we should be getting more information with regards to that particular case.
Our state of preparedness in Bulawayo, the first port of call that we made outside Harare was Bulawayo. State of preparedness starting from the airport, we are in order at the airport. We have identified a quarantine area at the airport. We have also identified an isolation facility at Thorngrove itself. I personally went there and saw the facility. Yes, we need to improve and increase the numbers and that is work in progress. We want to do that for all our facilities anyway. It is not just Bulawayo - even in Harare we need to continue to spruce up our facilities. It is a continuous process and Bulawayo is not forgotten. We make sure that we have the same capability in Bulawayo as we have in
Harare, Victoria Falls, Mutare and all over. You were also talking about the suspect case in Bulawayo - again and that is something that is being followed.
Let me also educate Hon. Members that one of the methods of ensuring that we do not spread and that we take care of the problem is through self quarantine. This is what is happening in most cases in the other countries that are affected. They will recommend someone to stay at home when they have flu. This is what we have also learnt about that - if someone has a flu they must stay at home. Self quarantine will come when we have a situation where we have a case that has been found to have some of the signs and symptoms or flu-like symptoms.
Information pamphlets are very relevant for us to be able to disseminate information. I was just saying to myself we have to find a way of getting all the Hon. Members to get pamphlets so that they can be able to distribute them in their constituencies. This is very critical and we are going to be supplying all the Hon. Members and Senators with that information. We want to also have a situation where we can have Members of Parliament being trained through teleconferencing. We want to plan a teleconferencing facility so that we can be able to do teleconferencing, but at the moment I think we will have to concentrate training on our mobile phones so that we do not have to gather in huge numbers.
The issue regarding our tests – at the moment we can only do the polymerase chain reaction tests which are the PCR which takes five hours to do and those are the gold standards. With regards to having spraying systems, yes, thank you very much for your suggestion Hon. Member. At the moment, in Zimbabwe we do not have that facility to be able to spray wide areas, but we have facilities for using knapsacks. We would also want to improve our systems and be able to come up with trucks for that purpose.
The use of toilets improvement, we are looking at all the issues regarding cleanliness in the toilets. We are talking to the headmasters. I have had so many calls from people talking about schools, so it is an issue which has to be presented accordingly.
The question that Coronavirus can be contracted through bond notes or money – yes, if the Coronavirus is to be detected in our country; we shall continue teaching each other on how to handle some of these things. We also mentioned that touching a door knob when you have contracted the virus will spread it to the others. If you touch your mouth, then you can easily be infected. That is why we urge people to wash their hands, because we are also encouraging people not to touch their faces. If you touch your face, you will touch different surfaces, and chances are high that you will contract the virus. Greeting through shaking hands should be avoided at all costs, let us stop that. I would also like to urge people not hug each other; we can use our feet or elbows to greet each other. This is the time of learning. I even urge people to stop kissing each other, let us avoid a lot of contact through hugging, let us maintain a reasonable distance and give each other space.
Regarding mobile hand sanitizers, this is a good suggestion which should be used. We have to engage those who have mobile toilets so that this spreads throughout the country.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
PUBLIC EXAMINATION FEES FOR 2020
THE MINISTER OF SECONDARY AND PRIMARY
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA): Thank you
Madam Speaker for this opportunity to make this Ministerial Statement on the public examination fees for 2020. As Hon. Members of this august House are in no doubt, aware that the Zimbabwe School
Examinations council ZIMSEC published the 2020 Grade Seven, Ordinary and Advanced level public examination fees of each examination early February 2020. Following representations to the Minister on the capacity of parents and guardians to afford the required examination fees, the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education cancelled the Examination fees circular on the 19th February 2020 and advised that the new fees will be announced after further consultations. On the same date, ZIMSEC notified all examination centres of the cancellation.
Through the Hon. Ministers’ Press Statement and the circular by ZIMSEC, parents and guardians were advised to continue paying the old fees approved in 2015. Members are in no doubt, aware that the 2015 fees were in USD and the same fees obtained even when bond noted were introduced. One bond note was equivalent to the USD; the deadlines for the payment of the examination fees remained the same that is 28th February for the June examination and 27th March for the November examination.
I have since advised all parents and guardians of candidates in Grade seven, Ordinary and Advanced levels that in 2020, Government will be contributing 53% of the examination fees for candidates in public schools while parents and guardians will take up 47%. All candidates from private schools and colleges at Grade 7, Ordinary and Advanced levels will meet the full costs of the examination fees. The public schools were 53% of the examinations fees will be paid by Government
are:-
- Government schools;
- Local authority schools;
- Not for profit Mission schools.
I would like to advise Hon. Members that the new deadlines for the payment of examination fees are 30th of March 2020, for the June examination and the 9th April, 2020 for the November examination. Parents and guardians who had paid the full examination fees will be refunded the amount now being contributed by Government.
For the information of the Hon. Members, the contributions from Government and from parents or guardians for the 2020 public examination fees are as follows:-
Grade Seven, amount to be paid by candidate at public school is $125.00 amount to be paid by Government will be $139.00 which will give a total of $264.00. Ordinary level – amount to be paid by candidate at public school, $90 per subject and Government will pay $100.00 which give a total of $190.00. Advanced level, candidates to pay $165.00, amount to be paid by Government RTGS$186 per subject for three subjects, total of RTGS$351. Candidates at private schools and colleges including candidates who are re-sitting for examinations will pay the total examination fees. Candidates who are currently at
Government schools who get Government support for a subject for the June examination will pay the full fees for the same subject if they enter for it again for the November examination. The Government will pay for up to seven subjects at O’ level and three subjects at A’ Level. Candidates who want to sit for more subjects at each level will meet the full fees of those subjects themselves.
May I take this opportunity to register my appreciation for the support Hon. Speaker and Hon. Members of Parliament are giving to primary and secondary education. Let us continue to do everything possible so that our children are sufficiently equipped and prepared to make their contribution to the sustainable development of our country.
As I have said before, getting it right at primary and secondary education level will give the nation the confidence that we are building from a solid foundation. Madam Speaker, I take this opportunity to advise the parents, guardians and the Hon. Members that these fees can be planned for. You can start paying at the beginning of the year, and you do not have to pay all the money immediately. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
find out what is the basis of saying Government will only assist seven subjects and yet the same Government knows pretty well that students are learning, some of them 10 or 12 subjects. Why have a cut-off point of seven. What is the basis of seven subjects? The child has been learning for four years, 10 to 12 subjects and on the day of examination, we say as Government we are limiting our kids to seven subjects. What it means is, the scope of knowledge of our O’ level students is now narrowed to a few subjects. Hon. Minister, in the interest of the development of education, why not allow children to sit for all the subjects they have got even if they do not have the money and then they will continue paying until the end of the year.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Hon. Minister, let me
start by saying as Chair of that Committee, we are very disappointed because when the announcement for 15 dollars came, I think parents felt very relieved and the justification that you are giving us is problematic in one area. You are saying it was 15 dollars pegged at US dollars. The assumption therefore is to say if you increase it at the rate of the current inter-market, it makes sense except that the same parents are not earning in US dollars. So the money that they have will not be enough for them to be able to pay for the school fees. I just did a quick calculation, without even doing what Hon. Mudarikwa said where he said 7 or 10 subjects, if a parent has a child in Grade 7, a child in Form 4 and a child in Form 6, the total amount that they would have to pay is RTGS$1270, which is impossible. So I think this particular proposal does not work.
I am going to put a suggestion which we put to you as a Committee. We have 400 million, that had been allocated for the piloting of free basic education. We can take that 400 million, pay for this particular examination fees so that parents do not have to deal with this particular aspect.
Secondly, we do have an allocation currently which had been allocated for BEAM. Can we not get that amount of money to pay for examination fees? It does not make sense that a child has been going to school from Grade 1 up to Grade 7 and then they cannot go for examination. I think it makes us all look ridiculous. So for now, because you cannot be telling any parent to save money now, they do not have the money. We know how much civil servants are paying, particularly teachers. With this amount of money, even a teacher himself will teach children but his own children will not go school – [HON. MEMBERS: Address the Chair!] – I am sorry, I am being disrespectful. The teacher himself, given the amount of salary that he is getting, if he has to take his kids to school will not be able to pay this amount of examination fees. So, please I think let us make a decision that for now we pay the examination fees; ZIMSEC is not a parastatal that makes money, ZIMSEC has to be under social protection and I think it is important that we make that decision.
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Chair, mine is an
appeal just on three things. If we are to give the deadline of 9th April, especially after this confusion that arose, it means we have actually disadvantaged our parents. Right now, some have already said tools down because they had paid RTGS15 and they were saying it is over. If we give a deadline of 9th May, I think it is a bit too early. Why can we stick to the old practice where November examinations deadline was in May and children could go for the holidays, talk to their parents and then they can pay. This deadline is going to discourage them.
There was no clarity on these two practical subjects, which I know at secondary level if you have a child who is doing food technology, that child pays double the examination fees because it has got a practical component. Also building technology, those two subjects, they will be getting not RTGS$90 now but RTGS$180 per subject. I do not know whether Government is also going to subsidise the practical because they have just said they will pay RTGS$100 and yet the practical is double. So a child who is going to write seven subjects may not write the practical one because that practical is not going to be paid for. I overally foresee a situation where we are going to kill the spirit of taking every child to school because we have said no child shall be left behind. I feel we need to reconsider these situations so that our children and our parents will be in a better situation to manage what is taking place.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: In terms of Standing Order
No. 52, for us to allow members to seek clarification, we will vary the time for automatic adjournment from five minutes to extend it to 7.15
p.m. Thank you.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I wanted to clarify something to the Hon. Minister. We know with what we are going through as a nation, that there is a parent who cannot pay the $190 because they do not even earn the $190 RTGS but they get assistance from other people. My desire is that the reconsiders his position considering such children, child headed families, orphans and those who are vulnerable who could maybe pay $15.
Madam Speaker, the other point that I want to raise is that Hon. Minister, in different schools that are found in our communities, parents are facing challenges with paying their school fees. Some schools have raised their school fees and they apply to Government. Government sometimes says that the monies that they have charged are too much for parents, which means that when parents cannot afford to pay school fees, then Government reduces such fees. If Government can see that fees are exorbitant in this case, how come it does not even see that this is exorbitant? If schools cannot raise their fees, it means even examination fees should also be reduced because Government in this case has set a precedence that Government stands between the parent and the school. When Government stands in the gap for parents, how about in this case regarding examinations?
As Hon. Members of this House, we are saying that Hon. Minister, please feel pity for the people as you stand between the school and the parent so that we do not have many drop-outs from school. The
Government should also reduce the fees and revert to the original $15 so that all children can write their examinations. This is our desire even as parents and as mothers. Minister, we would be forced to come to you as parents to show our solidarity with other parents as we demonstrate so that the fees are decreased. We desire that our children have a better education. These children cannot have all the years they have invested going to school being thrown down the drain. Hon. Minister, please hear our concerns. Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Due to the limited time that we have, I am kindly asking Hon. Members to be able to seek clarification and avoid debating. May you please just make sure we go specifically to the point of clarification that we want.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker, I
would like to thank the Hon. Minister for his presentation. From my own point of view, the initial amount of $15 was accepted by people throughout the country even in the rural areas. Now for them to hear that they have to pay $190, it would be difficult for them. It is my plea that since there was a mistake in the beginning, may we just continue using that $15 which was announced at first.
Secondly, I would want to add my voice to what was said that when you go to schools to pay examination fees you discover that schools are saying that they do not have the approval letter from the Ministry. When are these schools going to get such letters so that we prepare and know where we are? I thank you.
*HON. MADHUKU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let
me raise my concern to the Hon. Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, that this situation and the monies that are being charged is against the Education Act which was passed by this august House. This does not tally with the Education Act because it affects children. Many children will drop out of school. The Ministry’s strategic plan which says that no child should be left behind is falling apart and we ask that Government reverts to the original position of $15.
The other point is that Hon. Minister, may you please make a follow up on your schools. There is a problem with policy implementation and supervision. There are some schools which demand for cash. On top of that Hon. Minister, I would like to add that there are practical subjects and science subjects that are being charged higher than other subjects. In rural areas, there are some schools that are charging $500 for examination material. That is not the only money that is being demanded; schools are charging different amounts of monies. So my plea is that the Government should empathise with the people and revert to the original $15.
*HON. MUKAPIKO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I stand to add my voice seeking clarification on the statement that was presented by the Hon. Minister. I think there was discrimination when the Hon. Minister said that only council and Government schools are going to get assistance from Government, leaving other schools behind. Why I am saying that is because when parents take their children to school, it is not just about taking them to school, but other schools that we have in our surrounding areas do not necessarily produce good results. So parents are compelled to take their children to private schools having sacrificed the little monies that they have.
So my view is that there should be fairness and equity on this issue because parents are interested in results and quality in education not completion of education. Thank you.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to focus on the monetary policy which was issued by John Panonetsa Mangudya in February, 2019. What he did was, he equated all the monetary policy in terms of the United States dollars that we were charging in this country to the new RTGS in 2019, which meant that if you were earning US$90 it was the same as you are earning $90 RTGS. So all the civil servants from then were earning the same money that they were earning in 2018/2017. It meant that if you were charging someone US$20, it was now the same as RTGS and the Supreme Court ruling that said that all debts that you had in United States dollars were the same as in 2017,
2018 and 2019. What is the reasoning of the Minister to say that now he has to compare the old examination fees that was US$15 to say we are now rating?
The salaries of the civil servants are still stagnant and they are still charged in RTGS, increasing time by time. So, I implore the Minister to ensure that no child must be left behind. In terms of the Constitution as codified in Section 75, every single child has a right to education. Can the Minister reconsider putting so many children in my constituency of Marondera Central? I am inundated with parents who are asking me to pay for their examination fees. Please Hon Minister, reason with the people, stay with the people, be with the people. I thank you.
*HON. TOGAREPI: The Hon Minister has brought a very
pertinent issue but I would like to suggest that since there is a budget for BEAM, why do we not use the BEAM money to assist students particularly during examination time because right now there is a lot of confusion. Initially, parents were told to pay a certain amount and later they were told again to pay another amount. We know that it is expensive to have quality education and other things but with the current situation, my viewpoint is that Government did a good thing by establishing BEAM. That money for BEAM should be made to cover the costs of examination fees.
*HON MUSHAYI: The problem that I have with the statement you presented is that at one point you announced that parents were supposed to pay $15 then you came with this statement. The way you presented the increment indicates that we are going to face problems with those who are going to mark the examinations because they will say that now that you have increased the examination fees, may you increase our remuneration also? Had you maintained the $15, you were not going to experience that challenged.
What it means Hon. Minister by increasing this money, you have opened another issue. I want the Hon. Minister to know that after announcing a certain position to parents, the Ministry should not change its position because this worries parents.
*HON SHIRICHENA: I would like to add my voice to this
debate. My point is that this is going to affect the quality of education.
Parents are facing challenges in raising school fees. They make an effort so that their children write their examinations and now you have decided to charge them such hefty examination fees. My plea is that please review the examination fees so that our children are allowed to write their examinations. BEAM should go towards examination fees so that our children write their examinations. I am very sorry Hon Minister, Zimbabwean students might not write their examinations this year.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May we have Hon. Members
that have got new issues. Let us refrain from repeating the same issues. If ever you are going to say an issue which has already been said, it is unfortunate, I will tell you to sit down.
*HON. P. ZHOU: The issue that I want to raise is that the impact of the Minister’s decision does not augur well with the people. I would like to urge you to revert back to the original $15. The point that I am talking about is the impact on the people. There was a policy inconsistency with regards to this issue. The parents are not happy with what is happening.
HON. MAMOMBE: I am rising on a point of inconsistency from
the Minister and the Ministry as a whole. I want to let this House know that Zimbabwe is the only country that still has children who are paying for basic education. This is really unfortunate and it is very frustrating. I want the Hon. Minister to explain why in SADC region, Zimbabwe is still the only country that has its children still paying for basic education.
We have laws and policies that support that basic education should be state funded. We have our Constitution which is the supreme law of this land. We also have the Education Amendment Act that was recently signed by President Mnangagwa. We want this issue to be addressed. Personally, I am saying the examination fees should be scrapped completely and the Government has to fund for basic education.
I want to bring to the fore the inconsistency and incompetency of the Minister because to me when there is this confusion that the Minister is showing, I am saying this with a heavy heart. To me it is incompetence in totality. When you have confusion like this…
*HON RAIDZA: I rise on a point of order that Hon. Mamombe has said that the Hon Minister is incompetent. Minister is incompetent. So, I would like to ask the Hon. Member to withdraw those words and only say her point then the Hon. Minister will respond.
HON. MAMOMBE: Madam Speaker, if incompetence is a wrong word, I therefore withdraw but Madam Speaker –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]- I have withdrawn. Madam Speaker, if the word has caused havoc in this House, I therefore withdraw.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Mamombe, I understand what that really means. Are you saying that you are not withdrawing, because what you need to do is to just say I withdraw, not to add any flesh to that.
HON. MAMOMBE: Madam Speaker, I withdraw that the Hon.
Minister is incompetent. Let me speak about the inconsistency with your policies. Personally, I feel that the Hon. Minister has to explain in this House why there is this inconsistency. If this 53% that he is talking about that the Government is going to support, if it fails, is he going to rise and increase the percentage because there is lack of inconsistency? What is the basis of this 53%? If it fails according to him, he is going on a 70% and even higher to 100%. So there is need to be basic and consistent with our policies.
Lastly, in the recent Education Amendment Act, there is a provision where it states that the Government shall provide sanitary- wear. This is fundamental and we are talking about examination fees. We cannot separate or isolate the challenges that students are facing when they are in schools. An example is a student from my constituency in Harare West. There is a problem that the Ministry does not own up to its promises. They promised that they shall be provision of sanitary-wear in all basic education, for example, the high schools. As of now, there has not been any sanitary-wear. We want the Minister to explain why he is not abiding to the policies and the laws that we have passed as Parliament.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add my
voice to the issue of examination fees. Where I come from in Rushinga, people do not even have money for basic livelihoods. They cannot afford to buy a bucket of mealie-meal. There is no food and I am saying where will they get this $90 in Rushinga. Even $50 is a lot of money.
*HON. KACHEPA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am saying that
the Hon. Minister sat with his Ministry officials and agreed that children should pay $15. In rural areas, all headmasters gave a deadline saying that on the 18th March, every parent should have paid. Some have paid that $15. The Hon. Minister has decided to hike the examination fees. This seems like Government is now a parallel market which just decides to raise fees. This is not right Madam Speaker. I believe that the coming of the Hon. Minister to this august House -he should go back and explain to his employees in his Ministry that this does not work because this is causing confusion in the country. The last point is that this will make people denigrate the President.
HON. MATHEMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank the Hon.
Members for the questions that they have asked and the request for clarification. ZIMSEC wants $500 million to do what it is supposed to do, hence they requested for these monies. In my statement I said we are going to have some more consultations which we did and the Ministry of Finance has since released $150 million to assist ZIMSEC to do what it is supposed to do.
Hon. Members keep on referring to what the law says and the intention of law. As I said earlier on, it is indeed our wish that we have free education like it is happening in other countries and indeed, it is a right of every child in Zimbabwe to go to school. Let me also say the money that I am talking about depends quite a lot on what Treasury has. I have heard some of the suggestions from the Hon. Members. I will go back and look at them and do more consultations and find out what we can do, but that does not mean that what I said earlier on will not happen. –[HON. MEMBERS: What are you saying?]-
What I am, saying is that I have to meet with the Ministry of Finance and I have heard what the Hon. Members are saying. So, let me go back to my offices and look at the whole issue again. The other thing is that we must take care of all those things Madam Speaker. If we were to follow what is said in the Constitution, fortunately for us, the
Constitution now says until Government has the money. The
Government of Zimbabwe is facing sanctions –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- I have taken suggestions that have come from Hon. Members...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Minister.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker…
- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister gave his Ministerial
Statement and Hon. Members across the floor raised their legitimate questions and now the Minister is bringing an issue that he did not even raise – the issue of sanctions. Can he also address the seven billion dollars that is stashed out by members especially from the Government.
HON. MATHEMA: The Hon. Members - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order.
When the Hon. Minister comes here, he will give you responses to what he feels is the position. If he is going to comment on that then do not expect him questions that you have got answers for. Let us allow him to respond.
HON. MATHEMA: Like I said earlier on Members - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of order. If this Hon. Minister feels that he is failing because of sanctions why did he allow the position of Minister in the first place? He has to withdraw that his failure is because of sanctions. He should withdraw Members - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Minister. Order.
HON. MAMOMBE: He should resign! He should resign! -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order. I
think we had a good day. We are just ten minutes away from finishing.
May you please allow the Hon. Minister to respond - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MATHEMA: Madam Speaker, I thought that the Hon. Members ….
HON. TSUNGA: On a point of order. In all honesty Madam
Speaker maam, the fixing of examination fees is a function of the Ministry in conjunction with ZIMSEC. If we are going to be sincere and honest with ourselves, we may not attribute the fixing of fees to the existence of sanctions. I think that assertion is misplaced. Notwithstanding whatever we may think, we must introspect and be honest with ourselves that the fixing of fees has no linkage whatsoever with sanctions - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I think
I said it quite well that when we ask question to the Hon. Minister, he will respond the way that he feels that is the position as a Minister. Let us allow him and give him an opportunity to respond. Can the Hon. Minister contribute - [HON. MEMBERS: Hatizvidi, hatizvidi, ngazviende, ngazviende.] – Order Hon. Members, order Hon. Members!
- [HON. MEMBERS: Ngaabviswe mafees, ngaabviswe mafees. Fees
must fall, fees must fall.] –
[Some Hon. Members of the Opposition burst into song]
The House was abruptly adjourned at Thirteen Minutes past Seven o'clock p.m. until Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 18th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ADJOURMENT OF THE SENATE TO CURB THE SPREAD OF
CORONAVIRUS
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): I wish to inform the Senate that following the announcement made by His Excellency the Head of State yesterday on measures to be taken to curb the spread of Coronavirus, the Senate will adjourn today to the 5th of May, 2020. However, Senators should note that the resumption date is subject to change depending on prevailing conditions at that time. Senators will be advised of such change should the need arise.
Consequently, all international travels, Committee meetings and Public Hearings are cancelled with immediate effect. However, approved workshops and field visits may go ahead where the numbers are less than the recommended number of 100. All other meetings will be considered on a case by case basis.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: I move that Order of the Day,
Number 2 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. S. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE WOMEN POLITICAL LEADERS GLOBAL
FORUM HELD IN ICELAND
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Women Political Leaders Global Forum held in Reykjayvik, Iceland from 18th to 20th November 2019.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara who moved the motion seconded by Hon.
Sen. Dube. I also want to support the motion by saying a few words. I want to thank the delegation that went to Iceland that represented us and was led by the President of the Senate. A lot of issues were mentioned and they are all pertinent as they relate to the lives of the people. One of these issues was on gender based violence which is a very important matter.
We realise that all the countries that were gathered saw it fit for this issue to be discussed. It is not only in Zimbabwe but it is something that is in all countries. So we want to thank the Government for allowing a delegation to go and represent us there. They went to hear and share the challenges that we are facing in terms of gender based violence as well as best practices from other nations. This gives us an opportunity to share ideas and to see how we can eradicate this.
Gender based violence is not only on women but also on men because in most cases, there is conflict in the home which causes violence and it leads to either death or injury of the other part which is something countries are trying to fight. It is a very important issue for us, as Zimbabwe with representation from the Zimbabwe delegation. We were privileged to be part of that conference and we were able to share ideas. We were given a role to play as women leaders to go and educate our communities on gender based violence. In Zimbabwe gender, based violence is prevalent during the tobacco selling season because there is conflict between the couple over the money acquired through the sale of tobacco. Gender based violence affects our families. When children see us fighting as parents, we are giving them a wrong picture of what marriage is like. They grow up with the wrong conception of marriage.
I think it is an issue that is very important and should be addressed. Zimbabwe did well by representing us and we want to thank the delegation for representing us. We know a lot of things were mentioned – equality between men and women in different sectors. It is not only Zimbabwe who should be seen fighting for gender equality, ensuring that women also occupy decision making positions but other countries also. It was also agreed that we should give men the space to lead and that women cannot do it alone, they also need men to be on their side. If we work together as men and women, there will be peace in the nation.
I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THIRD WORLD PARLIAMENTARY FORUM ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS HELD IN BALI
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 3rd World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development Goals. Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Mr. President, with your
indulgence, I move that if Hon. Sen. Makone is ready, the Senate reverts to Order of the Day, No. 2.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I second. Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ABOLITION OF DEATH PENALTY
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House: -
RECOGNISING that the current international trends are moving towards the abolition of the death penalty;
RECALLING the intense debate on the death penalty which characterised the 2013 historic Constitution making process;
NOTING that Section 48 of the Constitution dealing with the death penalty was a result of the intense negotiations and create a clear discriminatory absurdity;
ACKNOWLEDGING that His Excellency, the President and other Government officials have openly and publicly spoken against the death penalty;
CONCERNED that despite these developments, the death penalty still remains in Zimbabwe’s penalty statutes;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to submit a constitutional Bill to Parliament repealing the death sentence and the provisions in the Criminal Law and
Codification Act [Chapter 9:23] and other statutes.
HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I second.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President, death penalty was used in ancient times and is still used in a few countries today to punish a variety of punishments. It is a Government sanctioned practice whereby a person is killed by the State as a punishment for a crime. Crimes that can result in a death penalty are called capital crimes or capital offences. Forms of execution used include electrocution, hanging, lethal injection and shooting. There is no evidence that the death penalty deters crime more than other forms of punishment and it has been empirically proved that states that have death penalty laws do not have lower crime rates than states without such laws. More than 100 countries have abolished this cruel form of punishment and many more are abolitionists in practice. In practice, abolitionists countries, that is countries who have not executed anyone in the last 14 years include Zambia, Malawi and Tanzania, countries in the SADC region.
Mr. President, the death penalty is arguably a violation of the right to life. The Government of Zimbabwe should take urgent steps to get rid of the hangman’s noose and abolish the death penalty altogether. As at 31st May 2019, there were 87 male inmates on the death row while 127 were servicing life sentences. Zimbabwe last executed a prisoner on the 22nd of July 2005, making it a de facto abolitionist State for the last 15 years. This was before the hangman retired. The reason why the State has not executed anyone is mainly due to the lack of personnel to perform that function. The 79th and last person to be executed in Zimbabwe was Never Masina Mandla.
Before 2013, Section 12 (1) of the Lancaster House Constitution provided that, ‘No person shall be deprived of his/her life intentionally save in execution of the sentence of a court in respect of a criminal offence of which he or she has been convicted’.
The adoption of the 2013 Constitution brought some changes on the question of the death penalty in Zimbabwe. Section 48 (1) of the Zimbabwe Constitution now establishes the right to life, only to be limited by Section 48 (2) which states that ‘A law may permit the death penalty to be imposed only on a person convicted of murder committed in aggravating circumstances’. Furthermore, Section 48 (2) (c) of the same Constitution provides that the death penalty must not be imposed on people who were less than 21 years of age when the offence was committed and people who are more than 70 years old including women. Thus, in effect, the potential imposition of the death penalty is restricted to men aged between 21 and 70 years of age who commit murder in aggravating circumstances. Potentially this same group can commit murder in a manner that is not aggravating and escape the hangman’s noose.
The Constitutional changes were also incorporated in the reviewed Criminal Procedure and Evidence Amendment (CPEA) of August 2016, which in terms of Section 337-342 simply reflect the alignment with the
Constitution. Section 47 (2) and (3) of the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act, define aggravated circumstances as murder committed under the following circumstances:
An Act of insurgency, banditry, sabotage or terrorism;
Rape or other sexual assault of the victim;
Kidnapping or illegal detention;
Piracy or escaping from lawful custody;
Unlawful entry into a dwelling house;
Malicious damage to property if the property in question was a dwelling house, and the damage was effected by the use of fire or explosives,
Or the murder was the result of one or two or more murders committed by the accused over any period of time;
Mutilation inflicted by the accused on the victim;
Or the Victim was murdered in a public place or in an aircraft;
Public Passenger Transport vehicle or vessel;
Railway car or other public conveyance and
By the use of means (such as fire, explosives, or the indiscriminate firing of a weapon that caused or involved a substantial risk of serious injury to bystanders.
Thus, arising from these provisions, it is respectfully submitted that
Zimbabwe has chosen to retain the death penalty for cases of “murder committed in aggravating circumstances by males aged between 21 and 70 years of age”. The same Section 48(2) states that the law must permit the court a discretion whether or not to impose the death penalty. The penalty may be carried out only in accordance with a final judgement of a competent court. The penalty must not be imposed on a person who was less than 21 years of age when the offence was committed or who is more than 70 years of age. The penalty must not be imposed or carried out on a woman and the person so sentenced has a right to seek pardon or commutation of the penalty from the President.
The exclusion of women and the increase of the minimum age of execution from 19 years to 21 years under the new Constitution are progressive steps towards the abolition of the death penalty. However, instead of promoting gender imbalance under the criminal justice system by excluding women from the death penalty, Zimbabwe might as well remove it altogether from its statutes.
Mr. President, the current 15-year moratorium on executions renders Zimbabwe a de facto abolitionist state, which is a good step towards abolition, de jure. The death penalty has a potential of being meted out to innocent people and by virtue of its finality, it is irrevocable – because we are not infallible, we may as well err on the side of upholding the sanctity of life as a nation.
As a consequence of no interest in the post of hangman, the former President was forced to invoke the provisions of Section 112 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe in early 2018, which allows the President to commute the death penalty. It means that in effect, there will be no executions until 2028, making it 23 years since the last execution. Clearly, there is no moral, legal or political reason to reinstate State sanctioned killings after nearly a quarter of century without executing anyone.
By default, we are a step in the right direction towards deletion of this antiquated law from our statutes. In 2017, in their petition to the then President Mr. R. G. Mugabe, Veritas argued that that the majority of
African Union member states, with the exception of 17, had abolished the death penalty. Only Botswana, DRC and Lesotho are the three out of 14 SADC states still implementing the death penalty and that in spite of lack of a hangman, a large number of prisoners continued to languish on death row in Zimbabwean prisons. The death penalty is not a traditional remedy but a colonial relic.
Mr. President, it is instructive that in January 2016, the Council of Chiefs urged the abolition of the death penalty arguing for the traditional law which relies on restorative justice rather than retribution. The removal of this law from our statutes would be giving Zimbabwe an opportunity to make a clean break with the colonial past. Ironically, Zimbabwe was Chair of the African Union at its 56th Ordinary Session, when the African
Commission adopted a Draft Regional Treaty, the Protocol to the African
Charter on Human and Peoples’ rights on the abolition of the death penalty in Africa.
Mr. President, the question is why did Zimbabwe not proceed to implement a protocol which it has superintended over? Surely, retention of this law is nothing short of regression into antiquity. Even when the 10year moratorium was publicly announced as in 2018, it was not presented as an official Government policy, but as a matter of grace by the incumbent, not to sign any warrants of execution. This gives leeway for successors to resume executions, if they so wish.
It also puts the judiciary in quandary as they continue to mete out the death penalty as required by the law even though the sentences will not be implemented. If the sentences are not systematically commuted, it leads to an embarrassingly agonizing situation whereby the number of inmates on death row keeps increasing, without a corresponding increase in the holding facilities and conditions. Harare Central Prison is the only prison designed for death row inmates but some of the prisoners are now being kept at Chikurubi Maximum Prison because of shortage of space. This situation has let a number of the condemned prisoners under psychological torture because of the indefinite waiting period.
As of May, 2019, 14 inmates were challenging the constitutionality of their continued incarceration and were seeking an order by the
Constitutional Court to have their cases remitted for resentencing so that they can have their sentences commuted to life sentences. This troubling scenario would be alleviated by doing the right and moral thing, the removal of the deaths penalty from the statutes. The trauma suffered by the surviving family can never be adequately compensated for by the imposition of the death penalty.
Moreover, there is simply no humane way of killing, not even with the lethal injection. The executions are usually done in public as in Iran or on live broadcasts as in the USA, serving no legitimate purpose except increasing the cruel, inhuman and degrading nature of this form of punishment. While the Constitution reserves the death penalty only for murder committed in aggravating circumstances, the Criminal Code provides for the death penalty to be imposed for treason. Thus, the Criminal Law Code is unconstitutional and should be amended to set the maximum penalty for treason at life imprisonment and not death. An Act of Parliament such as the Criminal Law Codification cannot take away the right to life guaranteed by Section 48 (1 and 2) of the Zimbabwe
Constitution.
In conclusion Mr. President, as a measure to formally abolish the death penalty, Zimbabwe could take the bold step of amending Section 48 of the Constitution and clearly outline that the death penalty must not be imposed as a competent sentence in all the courts of Zimbabwe.
Consequently, the relevant laws such as the Criminal Law
(Codification and Reform) Act, the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, the Genocide Act and the Defence Act will be aligned with the amended
Constitutional provision. Zimbabwe as a member state of the International
Conventions on Civil and Political Rights and the African Charter and
People’s Rights must show protection and promotion of human rights both on paper and in practice. Zimbabwe needs to be counted among progressive African countries; including among others, Mozambique, Angola, Mauritius, South Africa, Namibia, Seychelles, Senegal and Gabon who have abolished the death penalty. Consequently, the Ministry of Justice and Parliamentary Affairs should set up a Committee which will specifically deal with human rights violations, such as the treatment of prisoners and upholding of international and regional human rights mandates during criminal trial.
Madam Speaker, the death penalty has no legitimate place in the systems of modern civilized societies and that its application is an inhuman and degrading form of punishment, as well as a negation of the right to life. Various studies have proved its imposition does not serve as a deterrent and due to possible fallibility of human judgement, the death penalty has tragic consequences. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Senator Makone for bringing this very important motion. In 1980, our new Government then spoke highly against the death penalty and yet between 1980 and 2001, they were 76 people who were hanged in Zimbabwe. After the removal of President Robert Mugabe and the coming in of the current President, both the current President and the Minister of Justice spoke against the death penalty.
As Hon. Sen. Makone has said, the Council of Chiefs who are the traditional leaders of this country have spoken against the death penalty.
The Churches and other civic groups have spoken against the death penalty, yet Section 48 of our Constitution permits the imposition of a death penalty except for women or people below the age of 21 or above the age of 70. So in our Constitution, which both you and I are part to crafting, there is inherent discretion. For example, if a woman supplies the poison and the young man of 25 administers it, the young man of 25 is hanged and the woman of 50 goes unhanged.
Mr. President, we ended up with the death penalty in our
Constitution because of two opposing views in this country. The first view was from ZANU PF; the people in ZANU PF strongholds wanted the death penalty retained for murder and treason. The people in MDC strongholds wanted the death penalty retained in relation to politically motivated murders or violence. Therefore, we had a cleavage along political party lines but if you look at it, both views were motivated by the desire for retribution. It does not make it right.
Mr. President, those who argued for the death penalty think that the death penalty acts as a deterrent – that if people know you can be hanged they will not kill. They also argued that if a person is not hanged, she or he may repeat offences and that it is painless and inhuman given the modern ways of execution. Some argue even to say because of the increased population in the prison, the death penalty deals with culling of human beings and reducing the population in the prison. Others argue that the death penalty is a form of justice to the family of the deceased person while others have argued in Zimbabwe that any move to remove the death penalty is to cushion and protect human rights violators.
However Mr. President, the death penalty is now an anachronism in the world. Every progressive nation is moving away from the death penalty. The United Nations General Assembly has now said that the death penalty has no place in modernity. Further, the death penalty violates the right to life. Our very Constitution says everybody has the right to life and the Government which is supposed to be the defender of the Constitution reserves itself the right to take that very life.
Further Mr. President, when people are being killed especially in
Zimbabwe, they are killed by hanging. It can never be argued that hanging is painless, humane or decent. Hanging is the most painful thing that happens. It also amounts to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. The people who are on death roll waiting to be executed are kept in solitary confinement but they are never told of the day of their execution until the night before. So they live not knowing when they are going to be executed and every time they hear the boots of the prison officer, they think the announcement is coming; only for it to pass for another day. Day-in, day-out, they go through this and we have people who have been on the death roll for 20 years. Twenty years daily fearing that today is their last day.
The argument that the death penalty prevents anything is neither here nor there. It does not find support in empirical evidence. Countries which have retained the death penalty include Ghana, the United States, China, Iraq and Saudi Arabia just to mention a few. In these countries, the rate of murder cases has not gone down because of the death penalty; in fact, it has gone up. At one point in time Mr. President, in a place called Zaka in Masvingo, there was a year when Justice Simbi Mubako complained that the murder rate per unit population in Zaka was equally that of Johannesburg in its worst times. This was in spite of the fact that they knew that there was a death penalty.
So the point I am making Mr. President is that the death penalty does not act as a deterrent at all. Further Mr. President, if you remember during the armed struggle, the guerrillas or those who were potential guerrillas knew that if they were caught, they will be sentenced to death and yet people flocked in their thousands to Botswana, Zambia and Mozambique well knowing that there was a death penalty. So the death penalty does not deter the crime. Further, in Iraq and the Middle- East, thousands of young men went and joined ISIS and Al Qaeda wellknowing that their regimes provided for the death penalty. The point I am making is that the death penalty is no deterrent at all.
During my professional life and I can talk about it now because the person is now dead. I had the experience of representing one of the notorious robbers – two of them actually in Masvingo and that was Mr. Masendeke and Mr. Chidhumo. In fact Mr. President, when I lost their bail application before Justice Bartlet, I went and told them the bad news. They told me ‘do not worry Mr. Mwonzora, you are going to hear about us very soon’. The following morning at 10 o’clock, they had escaped prison. They were so honourable after escaping prison as to send the rest of my legal fees by registered post.
The point I am trying to make Mr. President is that after Mr.
Chidhumo was arrested and was sentenced to death, he converted to
Roman Catholicism and became an ardent Catholic while he was in Chikurubi Prison. He knew that he was awaiting death. He knew he was waiting to meet his Creator. He knew that it was impossible to escape from Chikurubi and he repented and became a Christian. So the person who committed the murder or robbery is not the person we hanged. The person who committed the robber is different from the person whom we hanged because whereas the person who committed the robbery was the robber, we hanged a Christian, a person who had repented.
Further, it is a well known fact of life that this death penalty affects poorer communities than rich communities. Poorer people cannot afford good lawyers; we know our Government gives people what we call pro deo, which means ‘for God’; legal representation. When they do that, they do not look at the quality of the lawyers. In fact, senior lawyers do not want to take pre deo cases so they give those cases to the juniors and we put the fate of people in the hands of junior lawyers. So the rich get away with it but the poor are caught up with it.
In the United States, black people constitute only 13% of the American society but on the number of people who are on the American death roll, black people constitute 50% of people on the death roll because black communities in America are disadvantaged, poor and deprived. So, the death penalty affects the poorer people.
Mr. President, judges are human beings who make professional errors just like doctors and other professionals. They can make an error of judgment and when they make an error of judgment and pass a death penalty, the person dies and as Hon. Makone has rightly said, death is too final, once it has happened, it is over and the possibility of convicting innocent people exists. There are a number of reasons why you can convict innocent people. It maybe the subjectivity of the judge, there are some people who are just boring when you look at them and the moment you look at them, you think they have done it. Some people, just because they do not look good and they do not look well kept, an assumption based on their looks can affect the judgment of the judge. Some people do not know how to put their points across very well and some speak more aggressively and less friendly than others. All that goes on to influence the subjective mind of the judge and therefore, the possibility of hanging innocent people exists.
[Phone rang]
*THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, the
frequency of phones ringing in the House has become too much. So, if your phone rings, we kindly ask you to go outside. Within a period of 10 minutes, three phones have rung disturbing the proceedings of the House. So, make sure your phone is put at the correct mode, which is silence.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: As Hon. Makone has rightly asserted
here, the death penalty is a colonial relic. Right here, about a kilometer from this place, Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi were hanged on a Msasa Tree, somewhere in Josiah Tongogara Street. That should have been motivation for the independent Government to abolish the death penalty. By retaining the death penalty, you are retaining the very form of punishment that was used by oppressors. The death penalty was used by Smith to curb the insurgence by the freedom fighters and by retaining that, we are retaining Smith’s legacy.
Mr. President, the death penalty is barbaric. You are saying the person who murdered another person is barbaric but when you kill him, you are saying your killing is not barbaric. It is a contradiction of terms.
The death penalty is a way of legislating State barbarism.
We all know that after the formation of MDC, concerted efforts were made to get Prime Minister Tsvangirayi to be convicted of treason. We now agree here, all of us across the political divide, that Tsvangirayi was a blessing to this nation; he was a fighter of democracy and during the inclusive Government, Morgan Tsvangirayi together with his colleagues made a positive difference in the lives of our people. Had the Ari Ben-Menashe case succeeded against him, he would have been hanged and we would not have had the benefits of his services. There is a saying we have in law and it says ‘those that murder when drunk, sober shall hang’. It means that you commit the offence while you are drunk, you are high on drugs, you are excited by a girlfriend, excited by something but when you are being hanged, you are as sober and as alcohol free as a stone. So, those that murder when drunk, sober shall hang. There are people who have argued that maybe if hanging is barbaric, why not try other forms of execution and these include using firearms or using lethal injection or electrocution. They argued that those forms of punishment are not painful, they have never been electrocuted, they have never been subjected to lethal injection and they have never been shot. How do they know that it is painless? Therefore they make an argument on things that they do not know.
Lastly, I want to leave you with a sad story. An American man from Texas, one Cameron Todd Willingham; two beautiful Afro- American little girls were killed in an inferno when his house caught fire. The American system suspected that it was him who had killed the daughters but there was uncontroverted evidence that he had shown extreme affection for his little kids and they did not understand why he would turn against them and kill them. They sentenced him to death.
When the matter was reinvestigated, it was found that he was innocent. So, can you imagine that the little children that you love, we all know the attachment that fathers have to their girls; they are killed in an inferno, you are pained by the death of your children but you are accused of their murder and guess what? It turns out to be a mistake.
Mr. President, that is ample evidence that this form of punishment is anachronistic, it is archaic and outdated. It does not save any useful purpose. Zimbabwe is well known for trying to be excellent. Of course, we do not always succeed most of the time but let us try this once so that we remove the death penalty from our penalty statutes. After all, the person who kills anybody must spend the rest of his life working for us in hard labour in Chikurubi, in Khami and so on. They can be useful.
Mr. President Sir, I rest my case and once again thank Hon. Sen.
Makone for the motion.
*THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That was mouthful
and it reflects a lot of research because a lot of issues have been alluded to. It requires us to go, ponder and research on this motion. This is not a motion that one can just stand up and talk about. Since it has been presented, we need to go and research on the issues that have been raised in the motion – [HON. SEN. KHUPE: On a point of order.] – You do not say point of order to the Chair. I was saying that you need to go and research because the issue concerning Mbuya Nehanda, we talk about her but a lot of issues are left out. She is not the only one who was murdered. In 1898, it was a war of traditional leaders; when it ended, there was no law to execute anyone in this country. A person known as Alfred Milner who was the Commissioner and based in Cape Town said that people must be executed. We now introduce a criminal system and Roman Dutch Law shall be the law to be applied in this part of the world. That is what happened, the white man decided to adopt the Roman Dutch Law. So in 1898, the law allowed for execution. You are aware of the remains of eight of our traditional leaders; we are fighting that the remains be repatriated. This needs to be researched on because it is quite deep and extensive.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Thank you Mr. President, I will debate it like you said but I just want to correct one misconception. Mbuya Nehanda was not hanged on a tree, please take note.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Point of orderly you
are debating. Go and read then come and inform us from an informed position.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE 74TH SESSIO N OF THE EXECUTIVE
COMMITTEE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY UNION
(APU) HELD IN BANGUI
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the 74th Session of the Executive Committee of the African Parliamentary Union (APU).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWEAN DELEGATION BILATERAL
VISIT TO CUBA
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the
Zimbabwean delegation to the bilateral visit to Havana, Cuba.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 2019 ST. PETERSBURG INTERNATIONAL
ECONOMIC FORUM (SPIEFG) HELD IN RUSSIA
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the 2019 St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEFG).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES IN THE
MINING SECTOR
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the implementation of empowerment programmes in the mining sector.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 5th May, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. MAKONE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Eight minutes to
Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 5th May 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 17th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Biti, please take your
seat?
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PETITIONS RECEIVED FROM WOMEN’S ACADEMY FOR
LEADERSHIP AND POLITICAL EXCELLENCE AND
PASSENGERS ASOCIATION OF ZIMBABWE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that I have received the following petitions:
- On 28th February, 2020, Parliament received a petition from
Women’s Academy for Leadership and Political Excellence imploring Parliament to facilitate the implementation of Sections 17, 56 and 80 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe to ensure full participation of women in electoral processes. The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
- On 3rd March, 2020, Parliament received a petition from the Passengers Association of Zimbabwe, requesting Parliament to enquire into the delay in the implementation of Statutory Instrument No. 129 of 2015 and its adequacies in curbing road carnage. The petition has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development.
STEPS TO SAFEGURD PARLIAMENT FROM COVID-19
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Presiding Officers of Parliament are consulting amongst ourselves and with the relevant authorities on the immediate steps we need to take as an institution to safeguard the health and lives of Hon. Members, from the COVID-19 virus. A comprehensive statement will be issued tomorrow, once the consultations have been concluded. As a start the institution has put in place facilities at the entrance for everyone to clean their hands. We have also engaged the Ministry of Health and Child Care for screening machines for use at that main entrance and within the institution.
In the meantime I am urging all Hon. Members, staff and visitors to Parliament to exercise extreme personal hygiene by constantly washing their hands with soap and running water. Members are also urged to avoid close contact with anyone with a cold or flu-like symptoms – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Order, order! I am not talking about necessary proximity. I am talking about some people who might have some cold or flu-like symptoms. I am also urging all Members and staff who travelled to any of the COVID-19 affected countries within the last two weeks to approach the relevant health facilities for screening. I am also urging them to undertake self isolation for the greater good of Parliament and the nation at large apart from their own good.
MEMBERSHIP AND CHAIRING OF COMMITTEES
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to advise Hon. Members that the appointment of Members to the Committees is the prerogative of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders as provided for in Standing
Order Number 18 (1) and subject also to section 139 (4) of the Constitution.
Hon. Chibaya having entered and shaken hands with other Hon.
Members.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, please take your seat quietly and avoid shaking hands.
Consequently, any changes to the membership of the Committees, including the chairing of Committees will be done by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. Members are therefore advised that they should only attend the meetings of the Committees to which they were duly appointed and for which the appropriate announcements were made in the House.
Hon. Members, I have received seven requests for privileges. This is contrary to my ruling and because of that I decline, and if these privileges of Members are so urgent, they should be presented by way of questions at the appropriate time tomorrow – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, privileges are in terms of the Standing Rules and Orders of this Parliament. I want to emphasise again for the umpteenth time Mr. Speaker Sir, this institution is a creation of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and also it has been given a duty to uphold constitutionalism. So for the Chair to overthrow the rules of this House for not any explained and apparent reason, Mr. Speaker Sir, would be reducing the relevance and importance of this House to a kindergarten.
All the people who have asked for the point of privilege have got important and fundamental issues to raise in this House. It is absolutely unfair for the Speaker to make such an arbitrary decision which I would not think is in sync with the roles and duties outlined in our Constitution which this Parliament must dispatch. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of Section 206 of the Standing
Orders; where the Standing Orders do not indicate how many privileges can be asked, the decision of the Chair is final. Thank you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ZWIZWAYI: Honourable Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have ruled.
HON. ZWIZWAYI: Just on a point of clarity.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. I have not recognised you– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ZWIZWAI: On a point of clarity. Last time Mr. Speaker you are on record saying you are going to allow three and today you are saying zero – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes I am on record, but if I am presented with seven women, which ones shall I choose?
HON. SIKHALA: One from here and two from there.
HON. GONESE: You can just ask someone to come and pick –
[HON. MEMBERS: Use your own discretion.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Alright I have heard you. Order, order! Using the discretion conferred upon me by this Hon. House, I now choose Hon. T. Moyo followed by Hon. Maboyi and Hon. Mutseyami.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege. The point that I am raising, Mr. Speaker Sir, is so vital and indispensable as it affects the rights and privileges of Members of this
House and the constituents that we represent. It is precisely on the Parliamentary Constituency Information Centres.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I realise that most of our Parliamentary Constituency Information Centres are defunct. So we are encouraging the Parliament of Zimbabwe to resuscitate these Parliamentary
Constituency Information Centres. Information is very important, Mr.
Speaker Sir, according to Section 62 (1). It states that every
Zimbabwean citizen, permanent resident including juristic members and the Zimbabwean media has a right to access information. According to
Julius Nyerere (1967), “while other countries are intending to reach the moon, we are going to reach the villages with relevant information”. In this case, these Parliamentary Constituency Information Centres are going to bridge the gap between Parliament and the constituencies, Members of Parliament and also the people that we represent especially in rural areas. Information is very important. May l encourage you as the Chair to assist in as far as reviving these centres. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon Moyo. I think you
raised a very valid point and we shall look into the matter accordingly.
+HON. MABOYI: I would like to speak on a point of privilege. I would like to speak on the issue of coronavirus. I would want to know how our borders are like especially the Beitbridge border in case there are people who might want to come to Zimbabwe from South Africa. Some of them might come aboard a plane and then come in through the border. It is very difficult because we could be sitting here thinking we are protected.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you should speak proper
Ndebele.
+HON. MABOYI: I am Venda and I do not understand some of the Ndebele words.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: I am also Tonga.
+HON. MABOYI: What I wanted to say is that at the border, we are not protected as it is right now. There are no gloves and masks as well as sanitisers. What I am saying is that we are facing many difficulties. I am speaking about this because we know that at the other side of the border there are people who have been affected by the virus. Therefore, sanitisers at the border are needed. There are thousands of people who enter through that border but workers are not protected. I have seen that myself as I went there on Saturday. There is nothing at all. I thank you.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. I do hope
that there will be a statement from Government tomorrow that will look into this issue that is affecting many people concerning this coronavirus that has affected people worldwide. We will therefore wait for tomorrow in order to hear what the Government’s position is concerning this virus.
However, if there is no statement we do hope that a question will be directed to the Minister of Health tomorrow.
HON. MBONDIAH: My point of clarity is that I understand there is going to be a Ministerial Statement but in regards to the toilets here at this institution, there is no running water in our toilets here at
Parliament. I stand guided if there are any measures being taken.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: I asked the head of administration here and I asked him before we came here and he said there was no water in the building yesterday. However, there is water today. What caused that problem is that there is a pipe that burst outside here. They have looked into that and they have fixed the pipe. From yesterday afternoon there was water in the building. I thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Good afternoon Mr. Speaker Sir. With all due respect, we always abide by the Speaker’s rulings on several situations. My entry point with regard to the point of privilege is with regards to the rights of other Members of Parliament whose rights are being trampled upon by other Members. My point is to do with the Committees on Public Accounts, Environment, ICT and Higher Education.
Currently, the ruling is that there is a Privileges Committee which was mandated to investigate the alleged misconduct of Hon Members. Whilst that process is undergoing, of late we have experienced disturbances of serious levels from Friday, Monday and today. The dignity, integrity and credibility of the House is undermined at the highest level.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I bring it to your attention and my appeal is for order to be restored with urgency and sincerity like yesterday. It is important to note that in these disturbances some Chairpersons especially Hon Chinanzvavana was abused verbally –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- with these words that are unspeakable. I reckon Hon. Hwende has been abused to a level we cannot speak in this House to respect its dignity. So Mr. Speaker Sir, I put it to you to respect and to honour the decision which was made there.
Thank you and we will always abide by your response. I thank you –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Just to wrap up Mr. Speaker Sir; with
regard to the disturbances which are happening in the House, I call upon the House to put a Privileges Committee which is supposed to investigate the current misconduct which is going underway so that we have the solution to what is happening and we have a response from the House. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. K. PARADZA: Point of clarity Mr. Speaker Sir. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Can you switch off your
microphone Hon. Member? Order, Order! I will start with the last part of
Hon. Mutseyami’s point of privilege. A Privileges Committee cannot be appointed over and above another Privileges Committee, otherwise we will run into a circus. A Privileges Committee has been appointed on the issues relating to the conduct of Members from my left. Secondly, there is a matter before the courts on a similar issue. Thirdly, the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders has completed the issues that are a cause of the Privileges Committee and the matter before the courts which is subjudice. The Committees must function in terms of Section 139 (4) of the Constitution which indicates that the structure of Committees must take into account the political set up and the gender issues in Parliament.
I have read this announcement referring to the Standing Order No.
18 (1) and the Constitution Section 139 (4). Any disruption to the Committee or Committee work runs contrary to the legislative agenda which was pronounced by His Excellency, the President during the State of the Nation Address. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order, order! I will chuck you out. I will chuck one or two Hon. Members out. The legislative agenda has Bills which must be attended to by Committees and these Bills impinge upon the political and economic reforms which the Government must undertake together with the contribution of parliamentary processes in Committees including going out there for Public Hearings or listening to witnesses that have come through.
So, we have to respect that process and I am asking the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders that since we have completed the new Standing Orders which address the issue that is at the centre of the disturbances, let that process happen. Let the new Standing Rules and Orders be presented here before we go on recess and that will take care of whatever has been happening within Committees.
So, let the processes take place and we ask that there must be unity of purpose so that we fulfill the Presidential legislative agenda – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order, order! You have forgotten, I said it before please respect yourselves. I do not want to end up at the clinic with no voice since I keep on shouting that you maintain order. The Hon. Deputy Minister of Energy would like to table Forensic report followed by the Hon. Deputy Minister of Lands and Agriculture.
TABLING OF REPORTS
ZESA HOLDINGS FINAL FORENSIC INVESTIGATION REPORT –
JANUARY 2019
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of
Section 12 of the Audit Office Act, Chapter 22:18, I lay upon the table the Report of the ZESA Holdings Final Forensic Investigation Report – January 2019 - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Do not invite the Chair to send one or two Hon. Members out.
COLD STORAGE COMPANY FORENSIC AUDIT REPORT
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of Section 12 of the Audit Office Act, Chapter 22:18, I lay upon the table the Report of the Cold Storage Company Forensic Audit Report.
GRAIN MARKETING BOARD FORENSIC AUDIT REPORT
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of Section 12 of the Audit
Office Act, Chapter 22:18, I lay upon the table the Report of the Grain Marketing Board Forensic Audit Report – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear,
hear.]-
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 3 has been disposed
HON. KWARAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, there was an oversight on my part, I did not recognise the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of our visitors. I therefore take this opportunity to recognise our visitors in the Speaker’s Gallery. These are members of ZILWACO and War
Veterans. You are most welcome – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
Order, order, order!
SECOND READING
VETERANS OF THE LIBERATION STRUGGLE BILL [H. B.16,
2019]
Third Order Read: Second Reading: Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle Bill [H. B. 16, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS
(HON. MUCHINGURI-KASHIRI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to present to you the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill which has come into fruition and has finally reached the Second Reading Stage.
The drafting of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill is in line with His Excellency, the President of Zimbabwe’s national legislative agenda to align all outstanding laws to the Constitution of Zimbabwe. To satisfy this requirement, my Ministry initiated the alignment process by carrying out stakeholder consultations. Outcomes from the consultative workshops were then used to develop principles which led to the drafting of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill.
The Bill was then approved at Cabinet level, gazetted and is now at the Second Reading Stage.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the purpose of the Bill is to align the existing legislation to the Constitution of Zimbabwe and repeal the War Veterans Act (Chapter 11:15), the Ex-Political Prisoners Detainees and
Restrictees Act (Chapter 17:10) and also provides for one consolidated Act called the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act which provides for all categories of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle that are provided for in Section 23 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe as “those who fought, those who assisted and those who were imprisoned, detained or restricted”. The Bill clearly distinguishes the four categories by defining
“Veterans of the Liberation Struggle” as; a liberation war fighter, an expolitical prisoner, detainee or restrictee, or a person who assisted the fighters in the war of liberation, that is to say a war collaborator or a non-combatant cadre.
Each category has its own definition provided for in the Bill clearly showing that the categories are not the same. Therefore, without derogation from Section 86 of the Constitution and 21 of the
Interpretation Act (Chapter 1:01), Statutory Instruments will be provided to cater for different benefits to be granted or paid to different categories of veterans of the liberation struggle.
The Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act (2013)
clearly provides the basis upon which the Bill was drafted. It explicitly recognises the liberation struggle as an important part of the history of the country which should always remind us and influence the way the country is governed. The Preamble exalts and extols the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives during the Chimurenga/Umvukela and national liberation struggles. Section 3 of the Constitution provides for the recognition and respect for the liberation struggle as well as recognition of the rights of veterans of the liberation struggle as some of the enduring founding values and principles of good governance of the Republic of Zimbabwe.
Section 23 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe also obligates the State and all institutions and agencies of Government at every level to accord due respect, honour and recognition to veterans of the liberation struggle. The same Section also obligates the State to take reasonable measures, including legislative measures for the welfare and economic empowerment of veterans of the liberation struggle. Section 84 prescribes as fundamental, entrenched and inalienable rights, the entitlement of veterans of the liberation struggle to due recognition for their contribution to the liberation of Zimbabwe and to suitable welfare such as pensions and access to basic health care through an Act of Parliament.
The Bill was, therefore drafted, to show an explicit link between itself and the Constitution, thus complying with the supreme law. It is not the intention of the Bill to take away any benefit that a war veteran or detainee is currently getting; rather, it seeks to add other categories that participated in the liberation struggle which were recognised in the current Constitution. The provisions of the War Veterans Act and the Ex-Political Prisoners, Detainees and Restrictees Act were incorporated in the Bill. The main difference evident in the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill is the inclusion of four categories that form the veterans of the liberation struggle as defined in the Constitution. The Bill, therefore, provides a legal framework for the recognition of veterans of the liberation struggle and it will unlock the specific benefits that relate to them through statutory instruments.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MAYIHLOME:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 The Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security
Services had the opportunity to analyse the War Veterans Bill, [H. B 15,
2019] which was gazetted on the 1st of September, 2019. The
Committee received mixed views on the Bill. Some sections of the public argued that the proposed law had significantly failed to address the real concerns of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, whilst others applauded the Bill for recognizing all persons who participated in the liberation struggle, irrespective of the different services or role they played. Indeed, most of the contributions made by individuals, especially war collaborators, were highly emotive as they felt hard done by Government. This is because they have not received any recognition or state benefits for the immense sacrifice that they made for Zimbabwe to gain its independence in 1980. Cognisant of the diverse views proffered, however, the Committee is indebted to all persons who contributed towards the crafting of this Bill.
2.0 BACKGROUND
The welfare of Veterans of the liberation Struggle has for long been a contentious issue in the post-independence era. War Veterans,
War Collaborators, Non-combatant Cadres and Ex-Political Prisoners, Detainees and Restrictees have had divided opinion over how their contribution to the liberation of Zimbabwe had to be recognized and honored. Statutory measures were put in place to try and address the concerns of these liberation war heroes and heroines. The War Veterans Act (Chapter 11:15) and the Ex-Political Prisoners, Detainees and Restrictees Act (Chapter 17:10) are pieces of legislation instituted by the government to cater for the welfare of freedom fighters. However, these statutory measures seem to have fallen short in some ways to comprehensively address the concerns of war veterans in their various categories. This and many other reasons prompted the crafting of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill [H. B. 15, 2019]. This new Bill seeks to pacify and unify freedom fighters under a consolidated piece of legislation which proffers and promotes the rights and benefits of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle and their dependents. It is against this profound background that the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services conducted stakeholder consultative meetings on the Bill and compiled this report.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
3.1 In line with section 141 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe
(2013), the Committee conducted public hearings in the ten provinces of the country, from the 27th to the 31st of January 2020. The public hearings were attended by various stakeholders that include: liberation war fighters, ex-political prisoners, detainees and restrictees, war collaborators, noncombatant cadres, widows, widowers and orphans of war veterans, children of living war veterans, persons living with disabilities, community leaders, government officials and other members of the public.
3.1.1 Also present during the public consultative meetings were associations such as: Zimbabwe National Liberation War Veterans Association (ZNLWVA); Zimbabwe Ex-Political Prisoners. Detainees and Restrictees Association (ZEPPDRA); Zimbabwe Liberation War Association of Collaborators (ZILIWACO) and Zimbabwe Children of Freedom Fighters Association (ZICOFFA).
3.1.2 Furthermore, the Committee had the opportunity to interact with the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs, Ambassador Marongwe and Mr. P. Muziri from the Southern Africa Parliamentary Support Trust (SAPST) on the Bill.
3.1.3 For wide coverage, the Committee split into two groups, each covering five provinces as shown below:
(A) TEAM 1
Date | Province | Public Hearing Venue |
27/01/20 | Mashonaland Central | 1.Musiiwa Business Centre (Musana)
2. Nzvimbo Growth Point (Mazowe) |
28/01/20 | Mashonaland East | 1. Rural District Council Boardroom
(Mutoko) 2. Rural District Council Hall (Macheke) |
29/01/20 | Manicaland | 1. Sakubva Beit Hall (Mutare)
2. Information Centre (Birchenough) |
30/01/20 | Masvingo | 1. Public Service Training Centre (Mucheke) |
2. Public Service Training Centre (Nyika
Growth Point) |
||
31/01/20 | Harare | 1. Stodart Hall (Mbare)
2. Unit L Hall (Chitungwiza) |
(b) TEAM 2
Date | Province | Public Hearing Venue |
27/01/20 | Midlands | 1.Senga Institute Training Centre (Gweru)
2. Chiyedza Hall (Zvishavane) |
28/01/20 | Matebeleland South | 1. Jahunda Hall (Gwanda) |
29/01/20 | Bulawayo | 1. Nketa Council Hall (Bulawayo)
2. Entumbane Hall (Bulawayo |
30/01/20 | Matebeleland North | 1. Tatazela Hall (Bubi)
2. Nyamandhlovu Hall (Umguza) |
31/01/20 | Mashonaland West | 1. Rimuka Hall (Kadoma)
2. Gozhongera (Murombedzi) |
4.0 Unpacking of the Bill by the Permanent Secretary of
Defence and War Veterans Affairs
4.1 Ambassador Marongwe highlighted the importance of the Bill while acknowledging the efforts made in the past to address the plight of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. He, however, stressed the fact that the new Bill would repeal the War Veterans Act [Chapter 11:15] and the Ex Political Prisoners, Detainees and Restrictees Act[Chapter 17:10] in order to come up with one consolidated Act which would comprehensively cover all the categories of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle provided for in the Constitution of Zimbabwe (2013). Thus,
War Veterans, Ex-Political Prisoners, Detainees and Restrictees, War Collaborators and Non-Combatant Cadres among others, would be catered for under one umbrella Act known as the ‘Veterans of the
Liberation Struggle Act’. He also summarized each clause of the Bill, paying particular attention to key constitutional provisions from which the objectives were derived. Definitions of groups of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle were also drawn from the 2013 Constitution of Zimbabwe, though in some cases additions were made in order to clarify the true nature of the groups..
5.0 PUBLIC HEARING SUBMISSIONS
The following key issues were raised by stakeholders regarding each clause of the Bill:
5.1 Clause 2: Interpretation
- Dependent
(i) The definition of “dependent” needs to be expanded to cater for the children of women who were impregnated by some
Veterans of the Liberation Struggle during the course of the war. Their children have fallen victim to stigmatisation and psychological torture on the grounds of the historical circumstances leading to their birth. This has disadvantaged the mothers and their children in accessing social benefits such as education, health and other services. Women in such a situation called for recognition of these dependents, so that they also benefit in whatever way prescribed by law.
- Ex-political Prisoner, Detainee or Restrictees
- Members of ZEPPDRA in all the provinces argued against a mandatory six-month specification for determining qualification as a beneficiary to this category of veterans. They contended that, in some cases, accused persons were detained, remanded or jailed for periods less than six months under intense stress, torture or other forms of abuses. They, therefore, recommended the removal of the six months condition and resort to considering the ‘contribution or act perpetrated as well as the act impact to the struggle in comparison to being in detention or prison for not less than six months. The rationale for this was that one can be incarcerated for one month and suffer more physically, mentally and emotionally than someone imprisoned for six months.
- In that respect, ZEPPDRA and ZNLWVA proposed ninety days as the cut-off point while other contributors called for the total removal of the specific deadline.
- Liberation War Fighter
- While acknowledging the definition of’ ‘War Veteran’ to mean a liberation war fighter with a sound military and or security background, ZNLWVA queried the attempt by the new Bill to accommodate cadres with non-military expertise under the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle banner. They argued that recognising all the four categories under one umbrella name would dilute the true meaning of
‘War Veteran’ thereby depriving war veterans of the benefits associated with internationally recognised military veterans.
- In that respect, War Veterans called for clarity in terms of seniority of the groups, objectively determined by the degree of sacrifice during the struggle, as listed in Section 23 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe (2013). Thus, they emphasised the fact that the armed combatants’ degree of sacrifice cannot be equated with political prisoners, detainees and collaborators.
- Non-Combatant Cadre
- It was proposed that the term, ‘non-combatant cadre’ should be removed and be replaced by ‘liberation war veteran cadre’. The sentiments from the public were that the description denigrates war collaborators in that it depicts an impression of non-connectivity to the struggle when in fact they were resolutely involved at all levels.
- They therefore, opted for ‘War Veteran Cadre’ as this impliedly meant exposure to the enemy’s attacks by either chemical,
biological or physical means.
- Representatives also proposed the deletion of the term ‘refugee camps’ as they felt that it gives the impression that freedom fighters who operated in these camps (better known as Transit Camps) were cowards fleeing their homes to live as refugees.
Additionally, members proposed that Transit Camps in Botswana,
Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania and Angola should
unconditionally be mentioned in the proposed clause and considered as such for the purposes of vetting.
- On defining War Collaborator as a person who ‘ASSISTED’ the fighters ….’ it was proposed that the term ‘ASSISTED’ be replaced by ‘PARTICIPATED’ wherever the term appears in the
bill.
- War Collaborator should be ‘any person who had attained the age of 14 years by the 31st of December, 1979.’
- On the interpretation of ‘veteran of the liberation struggle’ the term ‘means’ should be deleted and be replaced by the term
‘include’.
4.3 Clause 3: Establishment of the Liberation Struggle Board
- War Veterans proposed the inclusion of a clause that empowers them to appoint members, from the grassroots, to be Board Members. The clause should indicate that the nomination and appointment shall be done through the Associations of the
Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. The Minister’s discretion to
appoint Board Members should strictly be guided by relevant statutory instruments.
- Members called for a clause which states that the chairmanship of the Board shall rotate between the Zimbabwe African National
Liberation Army (ZANLA) and the Zimbabwe
People’s Revolutionary Army (ZPRA) cadres, to ensure balance. They advised that the Board should be changed periodically, that is, after every 3 years, to curb corruption.
- Representative associations noted that the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle comprises of ex-freedom fighters, demobilized and retired personnel, and non-militant cadres. For that reason, they disputed the inclusion of the Commander of the Defence Forces of Zimbabwe in the Board for the sole reason that it would confine them to military command. Hence the Commander should not be Chairman of the Board.
- Members of the public also held in doubt the powers given to the
Chief Director by the Bill. They called for the trimming of the his
or her powers, especially on management of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Fund and other monetary projects.
- In addition to the functions of the Board, a proposal was made that the Board should be empowered to set out the criteria for declaring hero status to deceased veterans.
4.4 Clause 8: Powers of Vetting officers
- The general public called for the establishment if a Vetting Committee which should be changed after every three years, to curb corruption. It was therefore proposed that the subtitle of
Clause 8 should be expanded to read; “Appointment, Powers and
Duties of the Vetting Committee” as opposed to ‘Powers of vetting officers. In addition, a vetting officer should be a person who participated in the liberation struggle, either under ZPRA or
ZANLA.
- ZILIWACO and ZNLWVA postulated that the clause should clearly state that War Collaborators are to be vetted by Camp Commanders or any such persons in authority who participated in the war and were directly linked to the persons being vetted.
- The vetting should be done in the zones and bases where the collaborators operated during the war of liberation. Chiefs, headmen and village heads should be consulted during the vetting of collaborators since they are presumed to have records of families and individuals who actively participated in the struggle in their villages of command
4.5 Clause 12: Benefits and establishment of schemes.
(a) Pension
- Associations representing the four categories of Veterans of the
Liberation Struggle called for the removal of the term ‘BASIC’ in Clause 12 (a) (i) arguing that it allows the Minister or any such responsible authority, to offer a pension benefit that may not be sufficient to cater for the financial welfare of veterans. Instead, they opted for a clause which clearly states that Veterans of the Liberation Struggle are entitled to a pension benefit equivalent to a serving Brigadier General’s salary.
- It was also proposed that in the event of the death of a war veteran, the pension payable to the surviving spouse or dependants should not be reviewed downwards to the extent that it leaves the deceased’s family in abject poverty. This is in light of the added responsibilities that would be endured by the surviving spouse.
b) Medical and Dental Care
- Cognisant of this provision, presenters on the subject highlighted that nearly all liberation war veterans were either physically, emotionally or mentally incapacitated as a result of the aftereffects of the protracted war of liberation. In that respect, it was proposed that a comprehensive medical aid scheme, offered by a reputable medical aid company, be awarded. The scheme should allow beneficiaries to access healthcare at both Government and private institutions countrywide, as well as outside Zimbabwe, where and when the situation requires so.
- Several speakers on the subject also lamented the poor state of health institutions in the country and strongly proposed the incorporation of a clause on the construction of memorial hospitals and clinics for Veterans of the Liberation Struggle.
(c) Educational Assistance
- Veterans of the Liberation Struggle bemoaned the challenges faced by their children and dependents with regards to accessing educational funding. While the Bill restricts educational assistance to government institutions, both ZILIWACO and ZNLWVA associations argued that the benefit should be extended to cover private institutions in and outside the country.
- Still on the provision of educational assistance, ZNLWVA in Masvingo proposed the inclusion of a clause where a 20% quota of the Presidential and other national scholarship schemes is reserved for children and dependents of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. In addition, the benefit should be availed to all learners, young and
old, as long as they are official beneficiaries, regardless of their age.
(d) Funeral Assistance
- In Clause12 (2), associations called for the incorporation of a sub clause on the provision of funeral services by a Parlour of reputable standing such as Doves and Nyaradzo Funeral Service providers.
- In addition, they proposed to be given funeral assistance and benefits which are equivalent to those of the other Veterans in the
Southern African Development Community (SADC) region.
- They suggested that hero status should not be distinctly categorized. Instead, they strongly expressed the view that all freedom fighters should be accorded national hero status for the purposes of uniform funeral assistance, honour and other postfuneral benefits.
(e) Gratuity
- Veterans of the Liberation Struggle queried the powers of the Minister responsible for War Veterans Affairs and were quick to point out the ambiguity expressed in Clause 12 (3) on payment of gratuities. They called for a crystal-clear clause on the benefit entitled to war veterans in terms of the actual once off gratuity payable to beneficiaries.
- With respect to that, associations proposed the deletion of the word
‘MAY’ together with the phrase, ‘…within the resources available...’ to be replaced by ‘SHALL’ wherever they appear in the Bill. It was argued that the inclusion and use of ‘MAY’ leaves a lot to interpretation and is prejudicial to Veterans of the
Liberation Struggle. They argued that the clause must compel the Minister to honour the provision, instead of giving him or her the discretion to act otherwise.
- To that end, it was proposed that Clause 12 (3), when amended, should read, “The Minister SHALL prescribe a gratuity payable once only….”.
- Additionally, the Bill should state a figure in respect of the gratuity for each category of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, as is the case with the War Veterans Act (1997) which gave effect to the payment of a $50 000,00 to all vetted War Veterans.
- In view of the above fact, War Collaborators and Non-Combatant Cadres proposed that their monetary benefits should also be paid retrospectively (backdated to 1997, when liberation war fighters received their gratuity and pension benefits).
- Furthermore, it was proposed that there must be a clause stating that all deceased Veterans of the Liberation Struggle should benefit posthumously, through their surviving spouses, dependants and or relatives.
- Another proposal made in honour of veterans benefitting posthumously was that 20% of their children, including those of living Veterans, should be offered jobs by the Public Service Commission. To this end, a call was made to incorporate a clause to read, 'Employment of children of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle in the public service, that is, the Zimbabwe National Army, Zimbabwe Republic Police, Prisons Services and other government institutions’.
(f) Clear categorization of the Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle members
- Pursuant to the aforesaid benefits, associations, particularly the
ZNLWVA, demanded clear classification of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle on the basis of their contribution and sacrifice to the Liberation Struggle. This should inevitably apply on the allocation of benefits. In other words, clause 12 should explicitly state the benefits and schemes for each distinct category.
- In view of the foregoing proposal, members of ZNLWVA and ZEPPDRA emphasised the importation of all clauses on benefits, from the current War Veterans Act [Chapter 11:15] and ZEPPDRA
Act [Chapter 17:10] into the proposed Bill. This includes importing all supporting statutory instruments.
4.5.2 Additional benefits requested by Veterans of the
Liberation Struggle.
(a) Tax and Duty Exemption
(i) It was proposed that the Bill should have a clause that exempts Veterans of the Liberation Struggle from paying land tax, vehicle import duty and tollgate fees.
(b) Quota System in Parliament and all government institutions and agencies
(i) The Veterans of the Liberation Struggle called for the Bill to have a clause which clearly states that there should be a 20% quota for War Veterans in Parliament and all government institutions, as is the case with women and youth. According to proponents of this idea, representation in Parliament and other state institutions by Veterans of the Liberation Struggle themselves will ensure that their welfare concerns are fully addressed while at the same time safeguarding revolutionary values and interests.
- Automatic Promotion of serving Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle in state institutions
(i) A proposal was made to include a clause on automatic promotion of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle currently working in government institutions. They suggested that serving members due for retirement should be promoted one step up in order to boost their retirement packages and pension benefits as is the case with retiring military personnel.
- Diplomatic Passports (i) All associations across the ten provinces concurred on the need to grant diplomatic passports to the leadership of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. They proposed the insertion of a clause in the Bill.
(f) Bravery Medals and New Identity Cards
(i) War Veterans called for the Bill to have a clause wherein the liberation fighters will be recognized and honoured through awarding of Bravery medals as is the case with Chiefs. They argued that the clause would complement Section 23 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe (2013), which elaborately calls for the State, its institutions and agencies at all levels to accord due respect, honour and recognition to Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. In addition, new identity cards should be processed and given to each Veteran of the Liberation Struggle.
4.6 Clause 13 -16: Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Fund
(a) (i) A call was made to include a clause on the decentralization of the administration of the Fund so that it becomes easily accessible to beneficiaries. While acknowledging the influence and role of the Board hereto, the public called for the trimming of the powers of the Chief Executive Director with respect to the administration of the Fund.
(ii) In respect of individual economic empowerment projects, War Veterans in particular, called for a clause on special concessions or grants in mining. This, according to them, will help the government to control and monitor its mineral resources by curbing pilferage and black marketeering.
(b) Compensation of War Victims and Veterans of the
Liberation Struggle living with disabilities
(i) Pursuant to and recognising the establishment of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Fund, the public in Macheke observed that the Bill was not explicit on compensation of war victims and Veterans who are disabled. It was therefore, proposed that there be a clause on compensation of war victims and veterans living with disability through an established War Victims Fund, as provided for in the War Veterans Act (1997).
(c) Exhumation, reburial and maintenance of Shrines of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Associations highlighted that the Bill should incorporate a clause to address issues of exhumation of those who perished during the liberation struggle. They claimed that the State should take maximum responsibility on identifying the deceased and spearheading the exhumation process, thereby rendering them decent reburial at the Heroes’ Acre or their respective home shrines.
- The same clause should seek to address gaps on adherence and reverence to cultural practices such as traditional cleansing in order to appease and put to rest the spirits of fallen heroes and heroines whose remains lie neglected either in foreign land or from within our borders.
- There were concerns that the maintenance of National Shrines was being neglected, especially at provincial and district level. They proposed that existing Acts on maintenance of National Shrines be transferred to the ministry responsible for the welfare of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, that is, the Ministry of Defence and
War Veterans Affairs.
- Clause 19: Accounting and Auditing of the Fund
Some members of the public advised that the said clause should also mention that Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, at grassroots level, shall be furnished with financial statements and Audit Reports regularly. Additionally, an external auditor should also be engaged to complement the efforts of the internal auditor.
- Clause 21: Resettlement benefits for Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle
- There were calls to incorporate a clause which commits the government to protect their land rights. Concern was raised where some Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, widows and orphans of deceased Veterans, were being evicted from their resettlement areas. Associations therefore suggested that there should be a clause which stipulates that War Veterans whose pieces of land might be confiscated by the State for national developmental programmes, be relocated first before the government takes over their land.
- War Veterans asserted that the Bill should clearly state that every
War Veteran is entitled to at least 50 hectares of farmland.
- Moreso, they argued that the 20% quota stipulated in the Bill should not be restricted to farmland allocation alone. Instead, it should apply on all government projects such as housing schemes in urban areas and growth points.
5.0 COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS
(a) (i) All the associations were not comfortable with the use of such terms as refugee camps and non-combatant cadre on the section dealing with interpretation of terms. Despite the term noncombatant cadre appearing on Section 23 of the 2013
Constitution of Zimbabwe, the affected group argued that the term was foreign to them and did not give a true reflection of the cadres’ involvement in the Struggle. The use of ‘Refugee Camps’ was rejected as Veterans called them Transit Camps.
(ii) War Veterans were not satisfied with the umbrella reference to all the categories of participants of the Liberation Struggle as
Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. This is mainly because the implied definition of war veteran from this perspective is not in tandem with the internationally accepted meaning of ‘war veteran’.
Internationally, the term ‘war veteran’ refers to a person who underwent military training and engaged in combat operations in a particular war. Likewise, our War Veterans are recognised as such as a result of their attestation in the ZPRA and ZANLA armies. Therefore, this set up (by nature of its proposed composition) dissociates the War Veterans of Zimbabwe from the community of international war veterans who subscribe to the World Veterans Federation.
(b) (i) The ZNLWVA and ZEPPDRA prefer upholding the current pieces of legislation, that is, The War Veterans Act [Chapter 11:15] and the ZEPPDRA Act [Chapter 17:10] while urging the government to consider crafting separate pieces of legislation for War Collaborators and Non-Combatant cadres. However,
ZEPPDRA would welcome the new piece of legislation only if it were to honour promises made in the current Act which offered $6 million as gratuity to each member.
(iii) ZILWACO and Non-Combatant Cadres expressed excitement over the development and appreciated the advent of the new Bill as they believed that all freedom fighters are equal in terms of their contribution to the liberation Struggle. The former is urging Government to pay members a once off gratuity in retrospect since their counterparts (War Veterans) had benefited back in the late 1990s.
(c) (i) Associations concurred on the rotational 3 year tenure of the Board Membership comprised of members drawn from the four categories at grassroots level.
(ii) Representatives of the four groups felt that the Bill was emphasizing powers of the Board and the Chief Director instead of being elaborate on benefits of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. (d) (i) Associations of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle agreed on the establishment of a Vetting Committee made up of Ex-
Commanders of the Liberation Struggle.
- All the associations representing Veterans of the Liberation Struggle concurred on the need to have a clause that establishes a War Veterans quota in Parliament and all government agencies.
- The issue of benefits was very topical in all the provinces. All the associations called for clarity on allocation of actual benefits for each category.
- (i) The majority of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle did not benefit from the land reform programme and some of those who were fortunate enough to have gotten land were being unfairly evicted. Widows and orphans of fallen veterans were the most vulnerable to these evictions.
(ii) The Committee also noted that the Bill is silent on the welfare of veterans who are mentally and physically disabled as well as widows and orphans of War Veterans who passed on prior to 1980 in Zambia and Mozambique before vetting was done.
- There was concurrence on the need for members to participate in national economic empowerment programmes if they were rightfully empowered through grants and mining concessions.
- There is need to consider reviewing the vetting age limit for War Collaborators from the proposed age 16 to 14 years as at 31st
December 1979.
- There is need to consider revising the cut-off point for qualification as Ex-Political Prisoner, Detainee and Restrictees from six months to three months. This should include cadres who were executed and those who simply disappeared during the war yet their records are known.
- Veterans of the Liberation Struggle are vehemently calling for recognition and honour during important state gatherings such as Independence Day and Heroes Day Commemorations, among others. They also concur on being given new identity cards and bravery medals as is the case with Chiefs.
- (i) For the sake of preservation of history, liberation war fighters are proposing the establishment of Veterans of the liberation
Struggle Museums as well as the introduction of a War Veteran Bond which will stand as a legal instrument guarding the values of the liberation struggle.
(ii) War Veterans are concerned that the National Anthem is not sung at the beginning of each Parliamentary sitting in both the National Assembly and Senate.
- Associations representing the groups of freedom fighters strongly reiterated the need for speedy exhumation of fallen heroes and decent burial for all deceased Veterans of the Liberation Struggle. In addition, they are proposing a speedy proclamation of hero status, which in any case should be national hero status for all deceased veterans.
- Veterans of the Liberation Struggle were concerned about the
Ministry’s failure to consult them during the drafting of the Bill.
- The Committee observed that some members of the public lacked sound comprehension of the Bill. Most individuals took the public hearing gathering for a platform to narrate and share their personal experiences during the war instead of responding to the clauses of the Bill. Others, especially War Collaborators, demonstrated their readiness for vetting by going as far as submitting compiled lists of their members.
- There was notable confusion among the members of the public on the interpretation of Sections 141 and 149 of the 2013 Constitution of Zimbabwe. The majority of the people who attended the public hearing sessions were unable to draw lines between the Khundlane Petition and the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill. People expected the Bill to have captured all the recommendations made in the Khundlane Petition Report which was still under debate in Parliament.
- Associations and individuals alike, were concerned that it had taken too long a time (40 years) for the Government to seriously consider the plight of Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle.
6.0 COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS
- Suggested definitions and descriptions should be incorporated in the section on interpretation of terms. The replacement of the term
‘may’ with ‘shall’ should be adhered to wherever it is used in the Bill.
- (i) Repealing the Bill is not a reasonable action to take. Rather, importing all relevant clauses and statutory instruments in the previous pieces of legislation, [War Veterans Act 11:15 and ZEPPDRA Act 17:10] into the proposed Bill would go a long way in addressing the plight of Veterans.
(ii) An unquestionable categorization of the distinct groups of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, as well a clear criterion for awarding benefits to each group should be considered. Added to that, the government should work out separate packages (pensions and gratuity) for War Collaborators and Non-Combatant Cadres which are different from those awarded to War Veterans and Ex Political Prisoners, Detainees and Restrictees, in order to avoid unnecessary political conflicts and court actions.
(c) (i) The Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Board should include members of the four categories drawn from the grassroots. The Board should be changed after every three years.
(ii) Though reporting to the Board, powers of the Chief Director should be trimmed so that he or she does not directly or indirectly become the sole administrator of the Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle Fund and all associated empowerment projects.
- A Vetting Committee made up of Commanders of ex-combatants
should be set up to handle all vetting issues. Traditional leaders such as chiefs, village heads and headmen who have records of families and individuals who actively participated in the liberation struggle should be consulted during the vetting process.
- Political parties must take the initiative to promote and implement the quota system in their respective political parties which is aimed at achieving the call for a quota reserved for War Veterans in Parliament.
- (i) The Bill should provide for a comprehensive medical aid scheme offered by a reputable Medical Aid Society. In addition, health care should be accessible in both private and public health institutions in and outside the country. In the long run, construction of memorial hospitals for Veterans of the Liberation Struggle is necessary.
- The Bill should provide for full funeral cover equivalent to that of a national hero and offered by a parlour of reputable standing. The Committee also recommends timely declaration of hero status as
well as the immediate release of funeral assistance funds and other post-funeral benefits.
- The Bill should offer standard educational funding for children and dependents of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle at all levels of learning including access to government scholarship schemes. This should apply on both private and public institutions.
- Veterans of the liberation Struggle in the four categories should be exempted from paying land tax, tollgate fees and import duty on commercial or investment imports.
- All landless Veterans of the Liberation Struggle should be allocated at least fifty hectares of land. Once land has been legally allocated, beneficiaries must not be dispossessed except with a court judgment and on condition that a replacement of equal size is found within three months before eviction. Widows, orphans and dependents of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle must be legally protected from eviction.
- Individual empowerment projects should be prioritized over group funding. The government should consider offering mining
concessions or grants backed by government guarantees - similar to housing guarantees the government used to provide in the early
1980s.
- The vetting age limit for War Collaborators should be 14 years as at 31st December 1979.
- The cut-off period for qualification as Ex-Political Prisoners,
Detainees and Restrictees should be 90 days.
- Veterans of the Liberation Struggle should be given due recognition and honour by leading processions during significant national commemoration gatherings such as Independence, Heroes and Unity Days. Likewise, new identity cards should be processed and bravery medals awarded to all veterans in their distinct categories.
- For the sake of preservation of history, the government is encouraged to establish Veterans of the Liberation Struggle
Museums, as well as introducing a War Veterans Bond which will
stand as a legal instrument guarding the values of the liberation struggle.
- Stakeholders, in this case the four categories of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle, should be engaged or consulted during the drafting of Bills concerning their welfare.
- A Gazetted Bill should be accompanied by a simplified version (Bill Digest) preferably written in local language, to assist the general public in terms of grasping the contents of the Bill.
- In addition to Statutory Instruments, the government should publish simplified versions of Bills in the form of pamphlets and fliers detailing entitlements and benefits and where to access these benefits. These should be readily available to all Veterans of the Liberation Struggle and all the eligible beneficiaries.
- Government should speed up the exhumation of fallen cadres and ensure that they are reburied decently. It must also ensure that all the shrines are properly maintained by responsible authorities.
7.0 CONCLUSION
Therefore, it is pertinent to boldly state that Veterans of the Liberation Struggle are an indispensable heritage, not only of our national history of liberation from colonial bondage, but also represent the national ethos and the collective spirit of Zimbabweaness birthed through resilience, bringing together our racial, ethnic and religious diversities. As such, the supreme law of the land acknowledges this pivotal and transcendental role and invokes the mandate of the state and all its institutions to accord “respect, honour and recognition to Veterans of the Liberation Struggle.” Unfortunately, it has taken 40 years for the State to come up with a law that seeks to address the concerns of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle as a combined force. In view of that, let it be known that most of the views given by stakeholders are noble and require attention. The case of subsidized transport, education, health care, housing, funeral grants and other relevant benefits for Veterans of the Liberation Struggle is not peculiar to Zimbabwe; rather, it is in line with international best practices. Thus, the Committee urges the responsible authority (Ministry of Defence and War Veterans
Affairs) to consider the people’s views and incorporate those issues that are critical in as far as the welfare of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle is concerned.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me the
opportunity to add my voice to the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill. May I, through you Madam Speaker, appeal to Hon. Members to allow the Bill to be debated in silence? There is a lot that can be learnt from listening to the presentation of the Bill because most of us were not born then. It is important that they listen to the wisdom that comes out of here. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- It can be denied but it is the truth. I still need your protection Madam Speaker. There is a lot of interaction that is going on.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, Order
please!
HON. MASENDA: The Bill provides for a number of several
benefits but it falls short of conferring any benefit to decent burial of fallen heroes who are lying in shallow graves in the country and across the borders. So, there is need that fallen heroes need a decent burial. The second point is that the Bill provides for war veterans to be attended at Government Hospitals. It should also provide for war veterans to be attended at private institutions where need arises. There is no benefit for the burial of fallen heroes in Zimbabwe or across the borders like Mozambique and Zambia. There is need to provide that in the Bill as well.
There is a situation in the country which disqualified veterans of the liberation struggle from being classified as war veterans because of the political situation which existed then. It is important that everyone who took part, despite what could have happened in the past be considered as a war veteran. There is need for those who were not vetted to be vetted so that they all qualify for compensation as liberation war heroes. This Bill has nothing to do with the Rhodesia Front Forces. It has only to do with veterans of the liberation struggle who took part and fought against the Rhodesian Forces. So, there will be no consideration of those who fought on the Rhodesian Forces side to be considered for any compensation or for any benefit under this Bill.
This Bill seeks to address the inadequacies of the War Veterans Act which left out participants of the liberation struggle as enumerated in the new Bill. On the classification of dependent, the Bill should also include children of war veterans who were born during the liberation struggle in bases in Mozambique, Zambia and even in the fore-front, there were children who were born to the veterans of the liberation struggle who are not being considered under this new Bill.
On the determination of ex-political prisoner, detainee or restrictee, the minimum of six months was considered to be too long because some people were arrested for two weeks and they suffered torture, humiliation, trauma more than those who were in prison for six months. So, the period under which ex-detainees, restrictees and ex-political prisoners should be reduced to three months or even less. ZIPEDRA and Zimbabwe National Liberation War Veterans proposed a 90 day cut off so that at least more people will be considered as restrictees or detainees.
There is also need to benchmark the provisions of other liberation movements such as FRELIMO, SWAPO, in Rwanda, Umkonto
Wesizwe and in Angola, so that we do what is internationally accepted, not just our own thing. The term Non Combatant Cadre should be replaced with Liberation War Veteran Cadre. The term Refugee Camp to be replaced by Transit Camps because most of those people who found themselves in what we are terming refugee camps were waiting to go for training and come back home to fight the liberation war. So, the camps should not be refugee camps because as refugee, you are hiding away from a situation.
Those who went there were not hiding away, but had to wait their turn to be trained and come back home. The term should be transit camp not refugee camp. The Zimbabwe Liberation War Veterans Association raised a concern over the lumping of war veterans under one name as this will dilute the benefits that will accrue liberation fighters. So, they were saying that it is important that the four categories be kept separate for the purposes of considering the benefits that will accrue to ech category.
I would like to zero in on people who assisted. Someone who assists does not take part in the action. The word assisted should conveniently be replaced with the word participated in the liberation struggle so that everyone who had any hand in the liberation struggle will be recognised as a veteran of the liberation struggle. War collaborators are people who took risks to further the interest of the liberation struggle. They should also be considered as being war veterans of the liberation struggle but not people who assisted but should be taken as having participated in the liberation struggle.
The establishment of the liberation struggle board should rightfully be taken from from the two camps – ZIPRA and ZANLA because those are the people who liberated this country including any other person from any other camp is indeed not conferring the right of the veterans of the liberation struggle to manage their own destiny. So people should only be taken from those two camps.
The vetting committee should comprise of members who have a relevant background on the liberation struggle because bringing in any other person who might have no idea of what the liberation struggle was will dilute the strength of the vetting committee. People with ulterior motives might decide to do otherwise. The recommendation is, they should only have liberation war credentials for them to become a member of the vetting committee.
There is also an inclusion of a basic pension – why basic and just talk of a pension because basic means there is something better than the pension that is being offered. Here we are talking about the pension that war veterans should get should never be considered as basic. It should just be a pension. When a pension has been conferred to veterans of the liberation struggle, that pension should continue to be given to either the spouse, the children or the existing dependants of the war veterans so that everyone along the chain will continue to benefit. There are situations where the pension once granted is then taken away once the beneficiary is no longer there. That should not happen – it should continue to benefit other beneficiaries.
War veterans bemoaned the fact that accessing educational provisions is very difficult. Although the current War Veterans Act provides for educational assistance to war veterans and their dependants but this has been implemented in a haphazard manner to the extent that other war veterans have not benefited. Their children have not benefited. Payment of fees delays the whole process to help their beneficiaries. It should cover everyone else who has to benefit from that.
On the 20% quota, we are saying that this should not just be reserved to agricultural land but also cover housing, business industries and mining. It should also cover a whole spectrum of items that come from the Government. We are also saying that – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Ndebele.
Order!
HON. MASENDA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I need your
protection – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members!
HON. MASENDA: The Bill provides that the ‘Minister may’, we want to make it compulsory by saying the ‘Minister shall’ so that the Minister has no .....
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order. According to the rules, a member cannot repeat what the other member has already said. He can only bring in new issues. The Hon. Member is simply duplicating what the Chairperson of the Committee has already said. If he has no new ideas, then he must sit down and allow other Members to bring in new ideas.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Masenda, you do not
have to repeat what has already been said. You may come in with other new things – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON.
MASENDA: Jecha rinobva kune vanhu vakaita semi chete kwete ini] – Hon. Masenda you are left with five minutes. May you please wind up.
HON. MASENDA: I need more protection so that I can wind up quickly – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There is also need to consider some exemptions for the veterans of the liberation struggle such that they do benefit from the land which they liberated.
There is need to exempt them from land tax, duty – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker Ma’am, I need protection, these Hon. Members are interrupting me – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – there is need ......
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Masenda, you do not have to repeat what has already been said – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MASENDA: I do agree. There is need to recognise the veterans of the liberation struggle by awarding them at least a medal – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – that shows their participation in the liberation struggle.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order, when we started this session, one Hon. Member said we should not disrupt Parliament sittings. These Hon. Members are now disrupting Parliament business more than what is being done in the Committees. The disruption we see in Committee starts here.
HON. MASENDA: I need to wind up by saying that the veterans of the liberation struggle are old and they have so many illnesses. They need assistance in all medical areas. There is need for speedy implementation of the new Act so that the war veterans benefit as soon as possible from the provisions of the Act. I thank you. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. NGULUVHE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I
would first like to thank our Chairman for presenting that report and also our Minister for bringing the report to the august House. I would also want to appeal to the House that we cannot talk of Zimbabwe without talking about the history of this country and we cannot talk about the history of this country without talking about the war veterans– [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Therefore, my appeal to the House is that when we come to talk about this Bill, we must be serious, otherwise most of you were not supposed to be in this House. Some of us took part and feel very emotional when we see that people hustle over an issue that affects the well being welfare of war veterans. So, I appeal to you Hon. Members, let us take this Bill seriously and consider the welfare of our officers.
As such Madam Speaker Ma’am, my contribution is going to be just a short one, just to remind our colleagues and Hon. Members that I know some of us would joke and say, ‘Go back to Mozambique return the country where it was, then we will come back and liberate it, it is not the time for that but let us be serious – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I said jokingly.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members!
HON. NGULUVHE: I will just comment on the board. I think with all due respect, this board should not leave out those who actually participated in the struggle. We should include people who actually participated on this board – they know what the comrades went through.
So let us also include and make sure that on this board, we have comrades who participated in the struggle.
Then coming to the powers of the vetting officers, again I want to say that, ‘Let us not leave out the real war veterans who took part in the struggle’. I cannot imagine a born-free leading a veteran’s team to go and vet a real war veteran. So let us put a real war veteran to go and do the vetting. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I also want to point out that we all know what transpired in our country prior to 1987. There were some disturbances both in Matabeleland North, South and Midlands. As such, we have war veterans who were not considered for vetting – not because of their making but because of the situation then. So let us also consider that they are vetted. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
I will add just one or two issues on the benefits of the war veterans because most of the issues were covered by our Chairman. The first thing is the issue of the liberation war medals. This should be taken seriously to benefit those who deserve through the Ministry of Defence, War Veterans and Security Services. Secondly, the reburial of former freedom fighters who died in the operation areas – they must be reburied at both provincial and national heroes acres and the areas where these comrades died are well known by those commanders who commanded them in the field. Otherwise, if we are not careful we will end up reburying selous scouts.
We need to improve the medical treatment of war veterans by not limiting their treatment to Government hospitals only, considering that the Rhodesian forces also used chemical warfare against our fighters both in the rear and front. Effects caused by such chemical warfare require special treatment from outside Zimbabwe. I propose that the veterans of the liberation struggle on national events such as Independence, Heroes Days be identified by their uniforms. So I am proposing that we give uniforms to these war veterans, so that during
Independence celebrations or Heroes Day, they are easily identifiable. The uniforms should be different because I know that there is confusion as to who is a war veteran? Who is a war collaborator?
I think that we can differentiate them using the different uniforms so that you can identify that this is a trained war veteran and this is a restrictee and all those issues – those are my recommendations. With these few comments, I propose that we move with speed and that this Bill is passed expeditiously because when you see some of the war veterans down there, some of us are lucky that we are still looking young but most of them look like 78 year old people because of the way that they are suffering. I am sure some of us saw them during our Public Hearings.
When you actually move in areas like Tsholotsho and
Chikwarakwara, you can easily tell that that homestead belongs to a war veteran as opposed to the one that belongs to an injiva because of the way they are staying. So I appeal to this House, let us pass the Bill and give what is due to these war veterans. I thank you. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker
for the opportunity. I want to start by looking at the issue of the death of war veterans. Our policies should be clear on the last respects accorded at the burial of a war veteran – we have a problem with those burials. Some of them are being buried without respect and acknowledgement to their participation in the liberation struggle because maybe word took long in reaching the authorities. A war veteran ends up being buried like a child. After being buried, no respect is given or someone to give the history of his/her fighting. A person who can testify about the late war veteran’s participation in the liberation struggle.
The Bill should also look at the functionality of the laws. When a war veteran is being buried, we have a problem in that some liberation war veterans are being buried - the guest speaker, a respected person would be someone who fought alongside Ian Smith who comes to lead in the burial of a national war veteran – that has to be looked into. The person who is coming to give respect and deliver a speech at the burial of a war veteran must be a person who knows in detail about the liberation struggle and should have participated in the liberation. We do not want to see a war veteran being buried by a Selous Scout or a member of the Rhodesian forces. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
On Clause 12 Madam Speaker, it is about pensions. These people should not be considered as general workers on pension. There is no pension that they are earning. They should be given a sustainable living allowance to make them survive – it should not be pension but money that will enable them to buy food; they will take 8 to 12 years without anything to eat. They were in problems and now you put them on pension which is equal to someone who was a civil servant coming from his home. We equate the pension to that of someone who was staying in the forest for many years. This is supposed to be a salary and not pension, it should be able to buy food so that for the few years left, the veteran has a good life and live a better life than that of a civil servant –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
On the pension issue, the other thing is that on the education of children of war veterans, there must be respect. The person who fought the liberation struggle wants to leave kids on this earth who have the knowledge which will make them successful and for people to respect that, ‘that is the child of a person who participated in the liberation struggle’. With the little salary he is getting, his children should not become poorer than him who went to war. If you look at children of those who worked for Smith, they are far much ahead in terms of education compared to the children of a liberation struggle fighter. The Bill must explain that the children of war veterans must be respected. Like myself, Prosper Mutseyami, the son of John Selamu Zhuwau who went to war in 1973 coming from Mareya.
Madam Speaker, on the issue of projects, we must make up something so that there is a programme to get reward from their work getting assistance from the Government in terms of finance to uplift their lives. We have to remove the issue of collateral security. The collateral security of war veterans is their participation in the liberation struggle –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker, the liberation fighters; on the board which is being created which will take care of war veterans – the first thing is that they should be people who have a clear history of the liberation struggle. If you check on the books, you will see that there is a well-explained history of the liberation struggle, not to have in the board just a person whom you assume was in the liberation struggle because he is good at speaking English on television. We want board members who are mixed with those from urban areas and from rural areas. Those who witnessed the struggle for the past 40 years and can speak with authority on the problems faced by war veterans for the past 40 years. Those are the people who should be on the board. We should not emphasise the on selecting people who hold high political offices, they are put under pressure when war veterans request their benefits. They are put under pressure by their political parties and gagged by their political parties.
That has to be addressed – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Lastly, Do not dispite the liberation struggle and the freedom we got. The people who went to war experienced a lot of problems in term of health; we should have hospitals to take care of war veterans with experts who understand the problems which were faced by war veterans. If they have ailments which cannot be treated in this country, there should be a clear policy that they will be assisted to go out of this country and get medical attention and make sure that war veterans survive well in this country. I would like to thank you for the time you have given me. I do not want to take a lot of time for others.
++HON. MABOYI: Thank you Madam President for this opportunity. Hon. Speaker Ma’am, I will highlight a bit on the war veterans and the way they operate. War Veterans are people who worked so hard for us to be here, I am grateful for what war veterans did for us to be here. However, war veterans are not getting what they are not supposed to be getting. If a war veteran passes away, there is no tea, no food, nothing for people who will be present for the funeral to get food. It is other people’s responsibility to look for all those things which are supposed to be there for the decent burial of a war veteran.
If you see people contributing here, they do not really know what a freedom fighter is like. People who went out there to fight for this country were affected physically, psychologically and by everything around them.
War veterans should be put into categories, that is a category for those that fought for the freedom of the country, a category for those who were cooking for the fighters and a category for informers. These people are different because those who fought for the country played a major role which no one can really take back. Therefore we are saying, let us have those levels coming out differently because their roles were different. They were never the same. We are saying war veterans should be taken for health examination because some of those people inhaled different dangerous substances and those things have led to administration of diseases.
Right now, we are realising that most of the war veterans suffer from various illnesses and most of them quickly die because there are so many diseases that they encountered during the liberation struggle.
Therefore, I want to add on to what the other Hon. Member said, that we are not only talking about pension but we are saying they need to get more than just pension because they played a major role for us to be here. We would not be here if it was not for them.
All I am asking for is that, those making contributions, those who are writing what is being contributed by Members, some learned need to realise that these people were deprived of the opportunities to go to school. Some of them failed to proceed with their education. Therefore, this is time for them to be send back to school and may be engage in vocational training courses that will help them in the future.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, if you see people that are suffering and showing extreme poverty in our communities, these are war veterans. We continue to say, please let us look after our war veterans. Right in here, we have people who fought for this country. We continue to say let us have those women being looked after because they played a major role in fighting for this country. We continue to say those ladies need to be looked after and their children. Right now, their children are being chased away from school because they cannot pay for their school fees.
If I fall ill as a war veteran, I go to hospital I am required to pay something like $3 000 but I do not have that amount. Therefore, I continue suffering. All those people who fought for this country and are suffering, we need to look after them. We are asking for uniforms to be given to war veterans so that whatever programmes that are being run, war veterans are included. We have war veterans that are coming out so clearly indicating that this one is a war veteran. This is what we are asking for. With those few words, I thank you.
*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What I
wanted to contribute in this august House has already been said. What I can say is that there are some children of late war veterans who went to the war but did not come back to Zimbabwe after Independence. Such children should be looked after. These issues should also be incorporated into the Bill.
As war veterans, we desire that our welfare be addressed. Hon. Mutseyami said the exact words that I wanted to say so I will not say much. We need to be regarded as anyone else. The monies that war veterans are getting should be reviewed. A war veteran cannot service his or her car, buy fuel for their cars, go to public hospitals or even taking their children to school.
Looking at all these factors, I would suggest that our children receive school fees disbursements early because these monies are not coming on time. The funds should be included in the budget. Thank you.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Firstly, I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for presenting this Bill to this House. My opinion is that as a nation we need to consider that as Government because it has taken us a long time to address the welfare of our war veterans. My point is that, we need to seek forgiveness of our national heroes, that as Government it has taken us a long time to address their welfare despite the fact that they participated in the liberation struggle.
As I stand here Madam Speaker, some might say that some people who were born after independence do not value war veterans but as an individual I value the liberation struggle. I was young then but I have family members who went to war and did not return after independence which means as a family we also lost family members.
When we refer to war veterans, it pains me because these are the people who brought independence to Zimbabwe. A lot of things were said Madam Speaker Ma’am but I would like to say that there is an issue that was raised in this House particularly referring to widows. When land was distributed, a lot of widows of war veterans did not benefit from the land distribution scheme. So I would like to ask that in this Bill widows be represented. When we decide to distribute land again, the one man one farm policy should also cater for widows.
Let me look at the Presidential Scholarship, the Bill points out that
20% should be allocated to war veterans. I propose that we must not use
20% but consider all war veterans’ children. Looking at the Presidential
Scholarship, you discover that most beneficiaries are children of Government employees who are earning salaries from Government. I am saying this because we have relatives who have benefited from this who have parents that are employed. As an individual, I would like to say that let us give this opportunity to the children of our war veterans so that they benefit from the Presidential Scholarship before giving the scholarships to those who have parents who go to work.
Madam Speaker, I would like to emphasise this point challenging the Government, that as Government audits these activities particularly those who went to war, looking at Presidential Scholarships, you will discover that including those who were in the Seventh Parliament, children of Ministers and Members of Parliament also benefitted from the Presidential Scholarship. I would like to say to the Government, we need to remember that we have children who deserve to benefit from these scholarships. Let us honour the children of war veterans.
We have women who participated in the liberation struggle who faced different challenges that are different from those faced by men.
Most women who went to war need counselling because what we and our aunties experienced during the war continuously affects us as women. This means that it is important to offer psycho-social support to such women so that they can have a better life.
Another point that I want to raise from the Bill that was brought by the Minister to the House, since this has taken long and we have not honoured our war veterans, we know that our money is being eroded by inflation as our economy is not stable. When these monies are dispersed this must not be similar to what happened when war veterans were given $50 000.00. There are a few who bought meaningful things and developed their lives. When they are given packages, I would like to request that in the Bill, the monies should be meaningful to our war veterans. After the Bill has gone through, it is important to honour our war veterans.
Madam Speaker, let me say that from a position of the labour party, the MDC in its Constitution has a section for war veterans. As a political party, we honour and respect our war veterans and we know that war veterans deserve to be given a package. That is why our party Constitution is very clear and it emphasises that we need to honour war veterans so that their rights are respected and they get proper food and receive money which will be meaningful to them. The party led by Adv.
Chamisa respects war veterans.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Firstly, I
would like to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing the Bill to the House. I am not going to say much but would like to address issues that were left out. In Zimbabwe, starting with school going children there is no clear history of our war veterans. For example those who died at Mboema and Chimoio, that history is not captured in the Bill.
The Bill should be very clear on the history to be taught to our school going children. The names of those who perished at Chimoio should be published in our textbooks so that children know their history.
Right now, we still learn of Cecil John Rhodes. When you go to Victoria Falls you will see the statue of Cecil John Rhodes instead of our founding nationalist fathers. This is what is lacking in the war veterans’ Bill so that the nation can retell the story of our war veterans, the young boys and girls who perished during the armed struggle.
In our country, Zimbabwe has a women’s quota in Parliament. Recently, we heard His Excellency the President speaking about the youth quota in Parliament. War veterans as they are do not have a quota in this august House. I was voted for after campaigning – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
+HON. N. NDLOVU: Hon. Chinotimba uttered vulgar words in Ndebele and it is not allowed here in Parliament. I doubt if he should be allowed to continue to debate. I think he has insulted every mother and woman in this Parliament. Hon. Chinotimba spoke vulgar words. He insulted all the women in this august House and in the country, even the female war veterans. Because of that, Hon. Chinotimba must not debate in this House because he insulted the House and women using Ndebele. In the rural areas, if you say the words uttered by Hon. Chinotimba, you can be fined. Unoripiswa mombe yechibatiso kuripa mhosva yekutaura zvinyadzo mwedzi uno waMarch ndewekuremekedza madzimai.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! What the Hon.
Member is saying what Hon. Chinotimba has said; Hon. Chinotimba is refusing that he never said that word. So, we will check with the Hansard tomorrow to determine whether Hon. Chinotimba said those words or not.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, my ruling
stands, we will confirm with the Hansard tomorrow.
*HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Madam Speaker for this
opportunity. I do not think as Hon. Members, the Bill that we are debating and the importance of war veterans; I do not think an Hon. Member who was voted for should use vulgar words insulting women. I do not think it is fair, this should not be said in the august House, to speak such words that offend the women – [HON. MEMBERS.
Inaudible interjections.] -
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Molokele, I will send you out of the Chamber.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, if this
behaviour continues, I am going to send someone out. May we have order in the House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- You may continue with the debate Hon. Chinotimba.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: On a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Hon. Chinotimba clearly insulted
us, the question is not whether he did insult us or not, the question is what word did he use? According to the Chief Whip, he said ‘satanic’ and according to someone else he said something that I cannot repeat. So the point is Hon. Chinotimba actually said it. So, he will not speak until he respects women. It is women’s’ month and he must not disrespect women. He must withdraw and apologise for disrespecting women of Zimbabwe.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, if you said satanic, withdraw your words – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: The previous speaker is the one who I
insulted saying satanic not women.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please withdraw.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word
satanic – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – the word I said to the previous speaker. I said that you are satanic and that is what I am withdrawing.
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: On a point of order Madam
Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Molekela-Tsiye, please
take your seat or else I am going to send you out.
HON. T. MOYO: On a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MOYO: My point of order is that Hon. Molokela-Tsiye was accusing Hon. Chinotimba of not being a war veteran so he responded by saying satanic – [HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Inaudible
interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Molokela-Tsiye, order,
if you continue like this, I will send you out – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members on my left, do you want us to continue debating the Bill or not? You are making noise despite the fact that I am ordering you not to make noise.
Hon. Murai having stood up.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Murai, please take your
seat.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I said that we have the women and youths quotars, however, we do not have a quota for war veterans in Parliament. War veterans are not recognised. We want war veterans to be honoured by being allocated a quota and not an elective quota but just like the youths and women’s quota. This quota should include at least one war veteran in every province – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, please wind
up your debate and take your seat.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: If we do that, then our war veterans will be represented in Parliament – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Iwe gara pasi nguva yako yapera] – The next point is that from the army my request is that a General should be a war veteran, not just an appointee but a war veteran – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Commander of the army
HON. T. MOYO: On a point of order, Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*HON. CHIPATO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to add my voice on the debate. War collaborators, war veterans and exdetainees live deplorable lives despite the fact that they participated in the liberation struggle and that they sacrificed their lives for independence.
Madam Speaker, 40 years after independence, the opposition has never been in power but they forget that there is someone who sacrificed his or her life and that person is living in abject poverty. We know that things are expensive in Zimbabwe and those who participated in the liberation struggle are living in abject poverty. My request is that Government should expedite the welfare of war veterans and war collaborators. There should be vetting in all provinces.
Let me talk about war veterans. These are people who have become a laughing stock to the nation because most of them are suffering from different diseases as a result of the life they lived during the war. Most of them go to hospitals but do not have access to medication. Government should prioritise war veterans and identify centres where war veterans should receive medical attention.
Most war veterans did not benefit from the land redistribution exercise. You will discover that the Woman’s Bank and the Youth Bank were identified as banks that will benefit women and young people. However, war veterans were not prioritised when these banks were being set up. When war veterans were given $50 000, I would like to take it as an analogy which can be compared to feeding a small child porridge and then constantly reminding the child.
We need to remember as a nation that independence came as a result of the sacrifice of the war veterans. It was very difficult for Zimbabweans to go to First Street before independence. So I would like to urge this august House to promulgate laws which will honour our war veterans. This august House was not meant for black people during the war and before independence, but because of the sacrifices of our war veterans who took it upon themselves to liberate the country which was colonised by the imperialists, things have changed. Now that we have independence and the land that our war veterans fought for, war veterans are just people without money and without resources. I would like to urge Government to prioritise such issues.
As this august House, it is important for us to remember our war veterans every time we prepare our annual budgets. There are children who were left behind by these comrades during the war. Some of these children were given their grandparent’s surnames. This is sad because such children did not apply to be born. We urge Government to look into such issues, particularly female war collaborators because you will discover that when you find that your daughter is pregnant you react, how about female collaborators who got pregnant during the war?
These are people who sacrificed to fight for the liberation of Zimbabwe.
With those words I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Madam
Speaker. I think it is unfortunate that because of our own problems here in the House we are unable to give the importance that we should be giving to this particular discussion. I think it should be a discussion that brings us together instead of dividing us.
When I listen to the conversations and debate here, for the first time in this House we are all in agreement. It does not matter whether you are sitting on what side of the House, it does not matter what political party you are from, I think the message is clear. We all are apologising for not having done what we were supposed to for the 40 years, and I think that is what is important.
I am just going to raise two main issues. The first one is that the reason this particular debate is going the direction it is going is that it is a delayed debate. In most countries, Madam Speaker, you will find that there is a day that is called a Veterans Day. It does not matter if you are in the UK, in the United States of America or any other place; those that participated in the liberation struggle have their particular day.
I know that others may say we do have a National Heroes Day but unfortunately because even the national hero itself has become problematic in terms of those that participated in the struggle. It is important that we have a Veterans Day that acknowledges everybody who was out there where most of these people are talking about. Secondly, Madam Speaker, some of the things we are talking about here do not need money. We do not need resources to give dignity to people who participated in the struggle. Let me be very candid. I am sitting in this very House and I am looking at female war veterans. I cannot count them in the front rows where people are nominated as Ministers. Why is that the case? Why is it the case that those women who participated in the liberation struggle, today in 2020 are the backbenchers of this very House?
So I am not persuaded Madam Speaker when l listen to this flowery message about a Bill, when the practical things we should be doing on a day to day basis we are not doing. Why is Hon. Kwaramba having been in this House since 2013 - she cannot even afford to be made a Deputy Minister. You are saying she does not have enough capacity to even become a Cabinet Minister and yet it does not take anything to be able to take these particular women and put them in positions of authority. The message you will be sending to those that are sitting today up there is if they were to see their very own being put in positions of authority, they will understand that you are acknowledging them.
Unlike others who are saying oh let us find schools fees and other things, I am saying just give them the dignity that they should be having today. I do have a brother who went to the struggle. He came back and is an agronomist and yet when he goes to these Ministries, he is treated like rubbish because no one acknowledges that this person went to the struggle. For me, it is not about the things we want to do. It is not about the discussion of a piece of paper that we are bringing to this House, which for me is a sorry excuse of the things we should have done a long time ago. We should be embarrassed that we are sitting here 40 years later talking about what we are talking about.
My message is clear, we have ministerial positions and embassies. If I sit in the Committee of Foreign Affairs, I cannot count the number of female war veterans that have been asked to go and put up those embassies. Why is it a problem to just give them embassies? Why is it a problem that when we are looking at Permanent Secretaries, we look at how many Permanent Secretaries are people who are coming from the liberation struggle. It is not about being educated. Even those that are educated that degreed are not taken seriously. Even the political party itself should do its introspection. The ruling party itself - where are your war veterans in the structures of your liberation? –[HON MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]-
Until we begin to walk the talk, we should be able to bring this Bill. For me we should not even be debating this. It is a foregone conclusion. Do not even waste time. We will pass it; except for a few things, but lets talk about the things you are not doing yourselves in the positions that you are in. I thank you.
*HON RUNGANI: I would to add my voice to the War Veterans Bill. Firstly, I would like to say that I was also in the Committee, particularly when we interviewed war veterans focusing on their welfare. Some war veterans were asking pertinent questions like who exactly is a war veteran. This encompasses those who went to war, those who went out of the country but came back without receiving any training, including war collaborators and ex-detainees. Some were saying we are referred to as war veterans but we experienced the war and participated in different ways. Some were asking how they would be rewarded.
In some cases we talk about war collaborators and if we agree that this is a female or male war collaborator who was 14 in 1979, these are the people that we want to refer to as war collaborators. There are also dependants of war or children of war veterans, these are so many. The communities in different parts of the country were saying that there are many people who were left carrying children of war veterans. Some were saying that even children of war veterans and those who were impregnated by war veterans and are facing challenges who do not even know where those who impregnated them went to, because they were casualties.
The Bill should be clear on those who are beneficiaries of war veterans and are being sent to school - in fact there should a cutoff date. For example, even at 25 years of age this should be in the Bill, so that even the child of a war veteran who is going to school even at 25 or beyond should benefit. This is because when the generation of war veterans is no more, no one will promulgate laws which benefit their children. So, we desire that children of war veterans should continuously benefit through school fees.
War veterans were given pensions which should benefit their widows. Some were requesting that the Bill should be clear that even after the death of a war veteran, the widow of that particular war veteran should continue receiving a full amount of the pension. When a war veteran passes on, their land must not be redistributed to other people, but it should benefit the widow of the late war veteran.
War veterans also requested that when laws are being passed in this House, war veterans should be buried in dignity and honour because most of them are buried as paupers. Some do not even have tombstones.
The law should be clear that when war veterans pass on, they should be buried in a decent manner and they should have tombstones. Those who are declared national heroes should also be buried in their rural areas but in dignity and honour. It is not a matter of them being taken to the Heroes Acre but they should be given an honour or a higher status even when they are buried in their rural areas. My last point is that war veterans said that they would like that in those areas where their colleagues were buried. Such places should be written properly and there should be tombstones and other things which honour the war veterans for posterity. Thank you.
+HON. N. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to
first thank the Hon. Minister who brought this Bill to the House. I would also like to thank Hon. Mayihlome, the Chairperson of the Committee who moved around the whole country to gather views from the public concerning the war veterans. A lot has been said but I would like to add a few contributions that I believe have been left out. If you look at the issue of plots, you will notice that they were given plots that are far away. In many cases most of their children cannot even go to school.
They have to walk for 20 kilometres in order to get to school.
They do not even have stores where they can buy groceries. They have to travel almost 10 kilometres to do so. They have to face so many difficulties in order to access food. The war veterans are not even free at all. They are still at war and are fighting for their rights. Mr. Speaker Sir, if you look at the treatment that war veterans face, they are treated as spare wheels. You will notice that a car for example, has four wheels but if one deflates, they get a spare wheel and put it. That is what happens with war veterans. They are not respected people yet they are the ones who fought for our nation and freed our country.
We are what we are today because of the war veterans who fought for this country. War veterans did not fight for the rights of other people and forget their own. They thought that they were freeing themselves as well. What is shocking is that the war veterans did not represent themselves. If it is political parties, they have them chosen for them.
They are told what to do and when. That is not freedom that they fought for. The people who do that did not even go to war. They are the ones who are benefitting from their sweat.
The people who fought for this country did not get any benefit and it is us who are benefiting yet we did not contribute anything. The poorest people in this country are war veterans and they own nothing at all. There are people who get paid in foreign currency. However, the people who should be getting the foreign currency are the war veterans because they fought for us. I once read an article in the newspaper. We were told that farms that were taken away from the white people are going to be handed back to them. Those farms had been given to our fathers who are war veterans and they were told that they will age there. Their lives are uncertain because they are often threatened and told that the owner of the farm will come back one day. Our fathers were told to construct temporary houses and this should have shown them that they were being cheated and will be moved away one day.
Lastly, I would like to say that our mothers and fathers who are war veterans should not be given 99 year leases and end there. Would you kindly give them those title deeds for them to know that the land is theirs and that whatever happens, they know they own their places? They should not only have temporary papers of which the land would be taken away from them at any point in time. That is why they feel uncertain about what happened. Please give them the freedom that they deserve and the freedom of choice as well.
As I conclude, there is something called a smart document of MDC. It speaks widely of war veterans that they should be respected and that they should be given their rights. There are people who fought in Mozambique and DRC. Some of them are handicapped and their children are orphaned. They should be given their rights and freedom. We respect the people who fought the war. I would like to add by apologising to the war veterans. I am also a child of a war veteran. We apologise that you did not get what you fought for. Twenty years of farm invasion but you are told not to construct permanent houses. May they be given their freedom in full? Thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. SEWERA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this
opportunity. I have seen a lot of things and I have heard what has been said by Hon. Members of this House. Besides that, we have seen that the issue of war veterans is very important. It is being supported by everyone because a dead person does not just go for nothing. I am surprised by many Hon. Members who are supporting this Bill. We have even seen people who were saying, ‘return the country from where it came from before the independence’ supporting the Bill. There is an issue of a person called a war veteran. He is very important than anyone else.
They sacrificed themselves to fight for this country and they did not expect any reward. If you see now that person who sacrificed the way he is living, if you see where they are staying and where they are sleeping, it is not pleasing. We want to add more on what has been said but this issue of all those who fought for the liberation of this country; the fighters, the detainees and collaborators should be taken care of urgently.
There is an issue of farms being talked about. If these people are given farms, they will be empowered. It is not feasible to just give them farms without any resources. They should be given tractors and money or everything that uplifts their lives so that they are able to live well. They are still behind. I want to thank the Cabinet and His Excellency President Mnangagwa for this Bill.
On the issue of war heroes and heroines, the people who died for this country; I am one of these people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – What I know is that I left my home area and operated in Masvingo but I was from Murewa. That person did not fight the war in his home area. People should be buried equally in terms of heroes status. I want to support the issue which was raised in this Parliament. They do not want to go under the Ministry of Defence. They want to choose their candidates and are given positions in Parliament. Before, they were given Ministers who are not war veterans to represent them. These people are not capable of doing so. That has to be looked into.
We are requesting that on the vetting day, especially war collaborators; we expect the war veterans who worked with them to be available. We are asking the Ministry of Social Welfare and security services to scritinise people who would want to cheat during the vetting process. This issue took a long time. There are some people who would want to benefit whilst they did not participate. We have people in rural areas who were collaborators and other war veterans who died and had their families left behind. These families have to benefit. We should not forget them.
War veterans do not want to do projects in groups. They also want individual projects so that they can get loans from banks. They also want their own bank which considers them as war veterans so that they are given money to do individual projects. If we look at war veterans who died for this country, these people have to live a higher life more than anyone else in this country.
I want to repeat because repetition is powerful. Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. SHAMU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to debate on this motion in support of this Bill whose aim is to improve the welfare of war veterans. I want to thank His Excellency the President of Zimbabwe, Cde Emmerson Mnangagwa and his Cabinet for allowing this Bill to come to Parliament. I also want to thank the Minister of Defence and War Veterans, Hon. Muchinguri-Kashiri who today tabled this Bill so that it becomes law in future. I also want to thank Members of the Zimbabwe National Liberation War Veterans Association, War Collaborators and ex-ditainees who united under the leadership of Cde Chris Mutsvangwa and others to support and contribute ideas contained in the report given by the Portfolio Committee today on the issue of the welfare of war veterans.
I believe a debate of the Bill will unify us as Members of the
National Assembly where we come representing various constituencies and political parties. I totally agree with Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga that as we sit in this House, no one can be said not to have participated in the liberation struggle in one way or another. Everyone played a role. We have relatives, friends or neighbours who got involved with the liberation struggle. We had a common objective which is the liberation of Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to request that the vetting of those who participated in the liberation struggle be thorough, no room left for corruption as that will derail this noble cause.
Mr. Speaker Sir, on the issue of the reburial of our fallen heroes, we should be cognisant of the fact that we had joint operations with freedom fighters from other countries. ZIPRA collaborated with Umkonto weSizwe of ANC during the Hwange battle. It is our duty to recognise and give a befitting honour to those that gave their lives for our liberation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in the Manica Cemetary in Mozambique where
Patrick Mupunzarima is buried, he lies there together with Tanzanians from PPDF who gave their lives for our liberation. We need to take full stock of our departed, be they Zimbabweans, Tanzanians, Zambians or Mozambicans. We should not just think of ourselves but we have to pay tribute to all those who perished during the liberation struggle.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I was impressed by the contributions of Hon. Members on the welfare of liberation war fighters. When we talk of the welfare of war veterans, we are saying has one got a roof over his or her head. We are talking of their survival. If we do not improve their livelihoods, then we will have done a disservice to the nation. You may ask why I am saying so.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Second World War was fought from 1st September 1939 and ended on 2nd September, 1945. The veterans of that war are still being remembered today. On the 27th to the 30th of April, there will be a Chinese-American Veterans of World War II; Congressional Ceremony in Washington DC. That war took place way back but they still remember them today. We are here talking about a war that ended only 40 years ago. In America they are commemorating war veterans of a war that was fought way back. They are likely not to find 10 people who participated in that war. It is therefore very important for us as Zimbabweans to do what we are doing today. Mr. Speaker Sir, to all Hon. Members who are in this House and to the leadership of this country, I think that we have appeased our ancestral spirits.
This law Mr. Speaker Sir, is a very important law that will touch on various issues to do with war veterans and also provide a vehicle for the chronicling of the history of the liberation struggle. We need museums on the history of the liberation struggle. We also need a committee consisting of knowledgeable people to write books on our liberation history. We cannot rely on books written by individuals for distortion and self praise will become the order of the day. The Government must come up with a committee representing the interests of all who participated in the liberation struggle so that they can be able to capture our sacred history. Exaggeration of one’s contribution distorts the history of Zimbabwe’s liberation struggle.
Mr. Speaker Sir, an authentic write up of our history should be indorsed by His Excellency the President as leader of this revolutionary nation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would have done a disservice if I was not to mention that war veterans from Chegutu District traveled to
Mozambique in September last year where they visited the Tembwe Shrines. They came back with a report which confirmed the fact that the graves in which war veterans who perished outside the country were unkempt and trees are growing on the graves.
In Mapayi, we have war veterans like Cde. Ziso who was a renowned hero yet no one has been there. This is why I said that this Bill is very important. When we leave this House and go to bed, we need to commend ourselves for the unity of purpose that we have shown during this debate. I thank you.
+HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you for giving me this opportunity
Mr. Speaker Sir. I stand in support of this Bill especially looking at the welfare of war collaborators who have never benefited as compared to the war veterans since they have never been vetted. This has resulted in them missing out on the benefits that are accorded to war veterans since they are unknown and not recognised.
If you look at the issue of NSSA, war collaborators are not benefitting from NSSA housing schemes that are being built for war veterans. Also in terms of health matters, some of them were injured during the war but because they were not vetted, they cannot benefit.
Our Government was not fair to all because these people did not benefit. With our Government, these people are not getting free medication as war veterans are. Since our Government has neglected these people for 40 years, I think that they should be first to benefit and should be given priority when the list for war veterans is done. They should also get the benefits that the war veterans are getting. As it is, they complained a lot because they are not even getting inputs from the Government.
Again, what I noticed about chimbwidos is that there are children who were born out there who do not have birth certificates up to today.
So, in my own opinion, I would like for these people to be recognised.
We should ensure that they get birth certificates for their children because they confirm that they have children who are out there. There is need for us to look into this matter. I thank you.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir for
giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this debate. Firstly, I would like to thank the new dispensation for recognising those who participated in the liberation struggle. We have been given the opportunity to be honoured as people who fought for the liberation of Zimbabwe.
I would like to thank Hon. Members who are in this august House for responding resoundingly to the report that was presented by our Chairman, Hon. Mayihlome. I would like to thank them for the history of our country was not properly captured. It was omitting some vital information as if some ex-combatants, collaborators, ex-detainees and non cadres were not necessarily important. They were being segregated. When you go to different places, you discover that some war collaborators and ex-detainees ran away from their places of origin.
Some people went to school in towns whilst war collaborators remained behind and those who went to school took up different jobs. Most war veterans spent their youth carrying weapons, fighting for independence. I would like to say that this Bill came at an opportune time and it will transform the welfare of war veterans and those who fought for the liberation of Zimbabwe.
I would also like to say that, despite the fact that we have different viewpoints relating to politics, at one point, there were some people who did not honour those who fought for the independence of the country and even said a lot of things regarding our revolution. However, today, I heard different Hon. Members concurring and agreeing. My desire is that those who are going to work on this Bill should expedite the Bill because I noticed that Hon. Members of this august House agree that the welfare of our war veterans should be prioritised. Therefore, we need to prioritise their welfare.
The other point I want to talk about is that, taking from the debates in this House, it is as if the war veterans; those who went to war, war collaborators and those who were waiting to be trained had similar challenges. If you go to Gutu right now, you find a place called Mungoma where more than 100 war collaborators died. When freedom fighters are considered, these things should be looked into. The war that we participated in, which was fought by war collaborators, ex-detainees and war veterans is the same war. We desire that this august House respect war veterans because the bullet that killed a war veteran, an exdetainee or a war collaborator is the same. Administrative issues should be looked into yes, but it is important that there is no segregation among war veterans, ex-detainees and war collaborators because this was the same war, there will not be another war. Whether one is a war veteran, an ex-detainee or collaborator, they have the same scars.
I would also like to say Hon. Speaker, when we look at different
Government departments, the national Constitution on Section 23 and
83, the Constitution clearly says that war veterans should be honoured. When we talk of honouring and respecting war veterans, it is important to identify and know war veterans. When there is nothing that identifies a person as a war veteran, then it becomes problematic. I would like to urge the Government that it is important to have symbols that identify our war veterans. For example, in public institutions like hospitals; when someone does not know that someone is a war veteran then it is difficult to serve them well. I think the Government should give war veterans a symbol like a medal so that they can be easily identified– when we identify war veterans, this will help them wherever they go, they can be identified by such symbols.
The issue of war collaborators; there are some children who have names like Hondo and other different names who do not even know who their parents or fathers are. We need to form a ‘Liberation Struggle Trust,’ which will be there to preserve the legacy of war veterans. However, for us who are still alive, the children of deceased war veterans, war collaborators and ex-detainees and those who were impregnated during the war and have children should have a database created which will be in the hands of the trust so that such children’s welfare is looked into.
Lastly, I would like to thank this august House; Hon. Members of this august House, we might differ on our viewpoints but I would like to appreciate that we concur and agree that war veterans should be honoured. This spirit of unity should continue. We must not be found denigrating our war veterans in future. The departed war veterans and those who are alive – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. S. BANDA: Hon. Speaker, on a point of order. There is a narrative as if we from the MDC respect war veterans starting from today. From the day we were founded, if you go into our preamble as MDC, you will find that we respect war veterans from day one. So, I want that to be corrected. We love the war veterans, war veterans are part of MDC, war veterans have to be given more land.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing this Bill and the Hon. Chair of the Committee for submitting the committee report. I also want to thank the seconders of this Bill and applaud them. I just have seven points that I want to talk about. Hon. Speaker Sir, the issue that was brought up by Hon.
Mayihlome in terms of amalgamating all the different groups that fought for the liberation is certainly applaudable. This is what I want to talk about. This is unity, more unity and it is applaudable. Mr. Speaker, I want to recognise anybody who went to war, a war collaborator, a detainee, a restrictee who was 14 years of age in 1979. Mr. Speaker Sir, 1979 I was nine years of age but anybody that was five years older than me needs to be recognised according to this Bill as somebody that fought in the war of liberation.
What does this mean Mr. Speaker Sir? According to Section 3 of the Constitution, as alluded by the Minister of Defence, the recognition of the war of umvukela by our Constitution is applaudable. That is the very key tenet of our constitution and that I also want to applaud. In Psalms 90:10, the life that we have here under the sun as a biblical country, a country that recognises the Bible, the life that we have according to the Bible is three score and 10. If we live any time above that, it is makore embasera atinopiwa naMwari kana naNyadenga. It says you can go further and live four score, which is 80. Three score is 60, ten is 10 and it is 70.
If we recognise the issue of the vetting process and the amalgamation of this group, the person who was 14 years of age in 1979 will be 65 years of age today. Meaning that the vetting process – it is my clarion call and fervent view that it should not take any more than five years because the one who was 14 years, in five years time they will be 70 or they will be extinct because of natural attrition, because of the live they have been given by our Lord in the Bible.
I am just requesting that there be an expeditious process of vetting
Mr. Speaker Sir for those that were in the war of liberation that are left. By reason of natural attrition, there would not be any more war veterans than they were in 1980 or 20 years ago. A lot of them would have passed on. I am talking about the one that was 14 years of age in 1979. It is my thinking that if there is going to be vetting as been alluded to, let it be within the next year, otherwise we lose oral tradition and we will also lose the data that we have.
A brain can store six million items but as you get older the issue of memory does not get any better. All it needs is a stimuli in order that it can apportion what it has in there to what is the present day circumstance.
The third issue Mr. Speaker Sir, the vetting and the amalgamation where the first and second, I ask that as the cost of living adjustment monies and programmes, we should first and foremost deal with the pensioners who a lot of them are veterans of the liberation struggle. Why do I say so Mr. Speaker Sir? Currently, they are the last people to be spoken of and about when you start disbursing the cost of living adjustment. We should be the last in the line especially those of my age that never went to the war of liberation. The people that should be first in line are those that gave birth to the one man one vote. The people that gave us the freedom that we have today; the people that emancipated the formerly marginalised black majority of this country and who are none other than the liberators of this country. The Restrictees, war collaborators, the liberation war heroes are the people whose pensions as has been alluded to by Hon. Shamu that whose pensions need to be looked at effectively and efficiently. Aware that the Europeans take care of their own who fought in the World War I and World War II, we pensioners who are in England that fought World War I and World War
II who are being paid because they fought whilst they came from Rhodesia. If these people who are the erstwhile colonisers can be recognised using our own given resources coming from former Rhodesia who is now Zimbabwe. Let us recognise our own Mr. Speaker Sir who gave birth to the unity that we have today, who gave birth to emancipation and total empowerment of the woman that we have today. Aware that before independence, women never used to be recognised in the manner that they are recognised today, they used to be treated like children. After independence they started to be advancement of the woman. Mr. Speaker Sir, I like to speak about women because what men can do, women can do better and we are all born of a woman.
The forth issue Mr. Speaker Sir speaks to and about the National
Anthem. As long as we do not recognise how we deal with our National Anthem, we do not value our nation. As we present and as we chun out the National Anthem, we should not be standing at akimbo, we should not be chewing gum, we should take seriously the issue of the national anthem. Otherwise we will not have the rains raining in this country as we deal with our rain fed agriculture and as we also fill our dams for safe potable drinking water. Everybody at school going age should be taught the values of the National Anthem. Mr. Speaker Sir, we should be qualified to sing the National Anthem word by word. Everyone who is involved in sports and anything to do with this nation should first and foremost be qualified. You should go through a rigorous process of seeing if they are able to sing the national anthem. They should value it and they should sing it whilst they stand up straight and head up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May I remind you of your time Hon. Nduna?
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The fifth issue is the exhumation and the reburial of our heroes. Hon. Shamu touched on this issue but I am going to centre on the issue of our Freedom Camp in Zambia. I went there, I saw how dilapidated, disused and the shrines are in a deplorable state. In that country we also lost a plateau of Zambians who in their quest to protect our own Zimbabweans who were in that country to try and fight for the liberation of this country. First and foremost, we need to spruce up, rehabilitate, reconstruct, rejuvenate our war shrines in that country, at Freedom Camp in particular before we can also go to the Zambians and offer our help in terms of sprucing up their war shrines for those who caused the demise of the platoon and their war veterans in their quest to protect our own. We need not only to exhume the remains, but we also need to bury them in a harmonious and good manner.
Mr. Speaker Sir on the issue of Tembwe, I have today in conjunction with Hon. Musanhi dispatched a team of four bearers who have an advance team which has gone to Tembwe to quantify the issue of making sure we maintain the war shrines that are at Tembwe where our own perished in numbers when the Smith regime decided to exterminate our own that went to war. The war collaborators were there and the liberators of this country were also there.
Mr. Speaker Sir, today we have about five of our own who have provided transport to go and make sure that they go and put in an inventory of what is needed. It is my thinking Mr. Speaker Sir that as long as we do not take care of those that died for this country, we are going to continue to be plagued by diseases that are unknown. Also, there are a lot of issues that can bedevil this country - chief amongst them the issue of lack of rainfall. It is my thinking that as they come back, with that inventory we can now by the end of this month or next month send teams from Chegutu West Constituency, Chegutu
Administrative District to go and make sure that they rehabilitate, rejuvenate and spruce up the war shrines. I also ask that there be exhumation of the seven heroes of the Chinhoi Battle so that they can be reburied at the National Heroes Acre.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with those few words, I carry the message of the people of Chegutu West Constituency who also want the Chegutu Heroes Acre to be spruced up using the God-given natural resources that are around Chegutu and also from ZIMPLATS. Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank you.
*HON. MPARIWA: I would like to thank Hon. Members for
participating on this Bill. There is no one who does not have a relative who participated in the liberation struggle. I would like to thank the
Committee for presenting the report which guides us to understand this Bill. In this Bill I would like to appreciate the fact that since 1980, there was no such Bill which looked at the welfare of war veterans. It is so embarrassing that 40 years down the line, we have people who are still suffering. Let me take this opportunity to ask Hon. Members to observe a minute of silence.
Minute of silence observed.
*HON. MPARIWA: May their souls rest in peace. Thank you. Most of the things that I wanted to say have already been said. We have women war veterans. The board that is going to be put in place should also include women because we need 50:50. Some who went there were injured, so the disabled people should also be included because in
English they say, ‘nothing for us without us’.
For some war veterans, it might be difficult to identify where they died and how they died, but if there is divine intervention through the appeasement of their spirits which is the responsibility of traditional leadership, our culture as African people, we can identify them.
Regarding the welfare of war veterans and their compensation which will be the culmination of the war veterans Bill, there are a lot of elderly people who go around asking for the NSSA offices and Post Office. Government should consider establishing banks which will service war veterans in different locations throughout the country.
Furthermore, there must a provision of psychosocial support for the veterans of the struggle. There are some war veterans who are taking medication for chronic illnesses for life. There must be special hospitals to cater for such people. I am aware that there is a Social Welfare Department which is responsible for looking at the welfare of the poor. I implore this House to prioritise this particular group because their issues are different from the previous group, because some went through different experiences like being exposed to guns during the war, some went to war at a tender age and some had horrifying experiences.
Let me conclude by saying that if we do not have the actual statistics of the people we are talking about, we would face a big challenge. It is important to have a database of such people for reference purposes for both the dead and those who are still alive. Hon. Speaker, I fully support this Bill, as an Hon. Member representing my party the MDC, my desire is that this Bill should pass so that our war veterans are assisted whilst they are still alive.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 18 March, 2020.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI seconded by HON. NOMATHEMBA NDLOVU, the House adjourned at Twenty Four
Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 17th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON PRESIDENT OF SENATE
STEPS TO SAFEGURD PARLIAMENT FROM COVID-19 THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Presiding officers
of Parliament are consulting amongst ourselves and with the relevant authorities on the immediate steps we need to take as an institution to safeguard the health and lives of Hon. Members, staff and visitors to Parliament from the COVID-19 virus. A comprehensive statement will be issued tomorrow once the consultations have been concluded.
As a start, the institution has put in place facilities at the entrance for everyone to clean their hands. We have also engaged the Ministry of Health and Child Care for screening machines for use at the main entrance and within the institution. In the meantime, I am urging all Hon. Members, staff and visitors to Parliament to exercise extreme personal hygiene by constantly washing their hands with soap and running water. Members are also urged to avoid close conduct with anyone with a cold or flue like symptoms.
I am also urging all members and staff who traveled to any of the COVID-19 affected countries within the last two weeks to approach the relevant health facilities for screening. I am also urging them to undertake self isolation for the greater good of Parliament and the nation.
MEMBERSHIP AND CHAIRING OF COMMITTEES
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to advise Hon.
Members that the appointment of Members to committees is the prerogative of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders as provided in Standing Order Number 18 (1) and subject to Section 139 (4) of the Constitution. Consequently, any changes to the membership including the chairing of committees should be done by the CSRO. Members are therefore advised that they should only attend the meetings of the committees to which they were duly appointed to and for which the appropriate announcements were made in the House.
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May I remind Hon.
Senators, to put your cell phones on silent or better still switch them off. We have to respect the proceedings of the House.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President. I rise on a
point of privilege. My point of privilege is that as Senators, we are here to serve our constituencies. For the last two days as a Member of this august House, I have had so many messages that are insultive showing that our people are not happy because since Monday, the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDs, the Thematic Committee on Gender and all the Committees that are being chaired by MDC were disrupted.
Madam President, you know the issue that is at hand and as Members of Parliament of the MDC-Alliance, we were punished and our allowances were taken away. The issue at hand is now with the
Committee on Standing Rules and Order which formulated a Privileges Committee which is investigating this. I know in the National Assembly the Speaker actually announced that the result of the Privilege Committee is going to be announced very soon. I am wondering, the country at the moment is facing many issues for example the Coronavirus all over the world which has killed almost over 6 000 people and we cannot sit. Every Committee that is chaired by MDC is being disrupted and people are beginning to judge us harshly. They are beginning to feel as if we come to Parliament to play. This is a point of privilege that I am raising to say how long is this going to carry on? Ever since these two august Houses started sitting, we have been working and then all of a sudden this week the disruption started. People out there are watching us every day and they are watching these disruptive tendencies and they are not happy. We have bigger issues –
[HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjection.] -
HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Hon. Members, can we
listen to what the Hon. Senator is saying BUT Hon. Senator, you cannot keep repeating yourself. I think you have driven your point.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Madam President, all I am trying to say is that people out there, the Zimbabwean populace is not happy with what is happening in Parliament…
HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Senator. I
think I hear you. I think if you had listened to the second announcement, this was caused by what you are saying. Let me say to Hon. Senators please I do not think we just do what is being done by youthful Members of Parliament. For one to be elected as Senator, they need to be at least 40 years because the Senate is for mature people. I just look forward to have Senators behaving. If something of that sort is happening, I think after the Hon. Senator has brought this one up, I am just advising all Senators to refrain from that practice.
HON. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. I sit on the
Committee on Gender and Development and it was never disrupted.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Which means as mature
Hon. Members, you did not do anything wrong. Maybe in that particular
Committee where she was sitting something happened. I am advising that this is a senior members’ House; we need comport ourselves that way. Thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to draw the
attention of the Senate to an advertent printing error on today’s Order Paper where the last order of the day is reflected as Order No. 8 instead of No. 10. Kindly re-number accordingly.
+HON. A. DUBE: Thank you Madam President. As senators, we are mature people but also as members of ZANU PF we see that we do not respect each other. When our President enters into the House, our colleagues leave. Let us all grow up, the President is the President of Zimbabwe. He is the State President. We feel hurt when our colleagues leave when our President enters. We are mature but that hurt us. Let us learn to respect each other. If our colleagues from the lower House leave, let us not behave like them. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before we go any
further, I need someone to help me with the translation – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Timveos, you are speaking on top of your voice yet I was silencing the other senators the time you were talking. Why are you doing that? Are you supposed to answer that Hon. Senator? It is my duty. This is why I am sitting in this chair.
I heard what she was saying. Also, this is why I am saying we have got to remember that we are honoured as senior and mature Members of Parliament who when we are sitting with youthful Members of Parliament we have got to advise them. I think we cannot go ahead with this. This is not on the Order Paper. Let us proceed with our Orders of the Day.
COMMITTEE STAGE
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 6A, 2019]
First Order read: Committee: International Treaties Bill [H. B.
10A, 2019].
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 12 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10A, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr.
President, I move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
SECOND READING
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6, 2019]
Second order read: Second Reading: Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6A, 2019].
THE MINISTR OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Mr. President Sir. I rise to give my second reading speech on the Freedom of Information Bill. Mr. President, Sir, the Bill before you, the Freedom of Information Bill, is a product of the Information Technology Age. It is fitting, therefore, to remind ourselves briefly of the nature, benefits and challenges of this new era.
Mr. President, information technology is now of such scope, depth and sophistication that it is having a determinant influence on all other technologies. It involves the designing and building of computers and information networks capable of performing, processing and storing the outcomes of billions of operations a second.
Previously, insurmountable problems of storing, processing, retrieving and using information in a faithful, timely and speedy way are now within reach of solution as never before. The solution to these problems in turn accelerates technical, social and economic progress. The promise of new information technologies is vast indeed because information is not a material resource like wood, iron, oil, or water. It is the only type of resource that humanity has not expended during its historical development, but has, on the contrary, enlarged.
Furthermore, the increase in the amount of scientific information (and by this one includes all types of natural science, technical knowledge and the human-centred sciences as well as including law) lays the basis for eliminating the wasteful use of material resources that has characterised human progress up till now. If information is properly used in the interests of humanity, the possibility is open before us to restore certain types of resources that humankind has hitherto unwisely squandered.
New energy sources are on the horizon that do not involve digging up and spoiling with waste products over greater stretches of land.
Sun and wind power may replace fossil and nuclear fuels by using more efficient solar panels and ever smarter wind turbines. Ways of exploiting and enhancing natural biodiversity will become available without diminishing that same biodiversity and so on.
Of course Mr. President, such a momentous stride in human development does not come without its risks and challenges. Not the least of those risks and challenges are those pertaining to our human dignity, our freedom and identity as individuals. For instance, our Constitution enshrines the right to privacy. How do we give effect and meaning to that right when information about ourselves is potentially common property in the Global Information Age? This
Bill is a contribution to balancing individual rights to privacy and the
State’s imperative of national security with the universal need and desire for as much unhindered access to the information that the New
Age avails us in unlimited quantities.
Mr. President Sir in 2003, the United Nations sponsored World Summit on the Information Society issued a Declaration which among other things affirmed the following:
“We reaffirm, as an essential foundation of the Information Society, and as outlined in Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, that everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression, that this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Communication is a fundamental social process, a basic human need and the foundation of all social organisation. It is central to the Information Society. Everyone, everywhere should have the opportunity to participate and no one should be excluded from the benefits the Information Society offers.”
The 2004 WSIS Declaration of Principles also acknowledged that
“ it is necessary to prevent the use of information resources and technologies for criminal and terrorist purposes, while respecting human rights”.
Over the past 10 years, the right to information and access to public information has been recognised in an increasing number of countries and several FOI laws have been adopted all over the world, including in the developing countries. To illustrate, in 1990 only 13 countries had a national freedom of information law. In mid-2006, nearly 70 countries had freedom of information laws applying to information held by government bodies and in certain circumstances to private bodies (in 19 of these countries, the freedom of information legislation applied equally to private bodies). Today, there are 100 such laws across the world.
The right to access information is grounded in the principle that the public has a right to know how public power is exercised and public money is spent, given that public bodies are elected by the people and sustained by taxes paid by the people. Public accountability demands that citizens know the basis on which Governments formulates policy and makes decisions affecting them. This is balanced by considerations of national security and the general public interest. The Council of Europe Convention on Access to Official Document (2009) puts it rather well when it states “all official documents are in principle public and can be withheld subject only to the protection of other rights and legitimate interests”.
The Memorandum to the Bill helpfully sets forth all the salient features of the proposed legislation and i will not rehearse them for you, except to emphasise that the Bill also covers those private bodies that have custody of information pertinent to an individuals’ rights. Grounds of refusal of access to information (including the grounds of national security, the economic interests of the State and information that is privileged to certain classes of individuals) are covered in a comprehensive, fair and just way in Part IV of the Bill. Part V of the Bill specifically protects third parties who have an interest in information supplied to applicants for that information. Such third parties have a right to make timeous representations with respect to the disclosure of information that might adversely affect their own rights.
In conclusion i urge you, Hon. Senators, to pass this law and in doing so raise another important milestone in the development of our democracy.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President for allowing
me this opportunity to highlight a few issues. I just want to see if the
Minister has already corrected because this Bill has already been in the
National Assembly and it is coming here in the Senate, possibly the Minister could have already corrected a few things on it.
There are concerns that were raised by the Media Institute of Southern African (MISA) that they were not really consulted and that some of the issues that they highlighted were not added to the Bill. One of these issues is that the Bill has unjustifiable limitations for a democratic society whereby it restricts access to information on Government borrowings. I wanted to check if the Minister corrected that. Why? It is because the civic society, even us here in Parliament have actually been pushing for transparency in Government borrowings to protect Zimbabweans from being forced to assume debts that are not necessary in most cases. So i want to hear if the Minister corrected that.
The right to access information applies to everyone and i want the Minister to clarify. We have Section 61 and 62 in the Constitution that protect the right to access to information. I am hoping the Bill is highly aligned to the Constitution. There is also a feeling that there is no justification in the gazetted Bill to restrict access to information to written format only as it will unjustifiably inhibit the visually impaired and the illiterate from seeking for information. I do not know what the Minister has done about that and need clarification on some of the amendments that were done. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF INFORMATYION, PUBLICITY AND
BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. MUTSVANGWA): I want to
thank the Hon. Member for the contribution and clarification that she is seeking. I must start by stating that perhaps in the history of this Parliament if there is a Bill that went through a process of a very wide consultation is the Freedom of Information Bill. I am alive to the fact that even at inception, when we started drafting the Bill, Parliament was also included and there was a workshop that happened in Nyanga and the contributions of parliamentarians across the divide was welcome.
I must also add Mr. President that the Portfolio Committee that also deals with this Bill is chaired by the opposition. We have been in constant communication to the extent that the amendments that were moved in the National Assembly were done by the Chairman of the
Portfolio Committee following the wider consultations that we had done. I am not sure how MISA was missed out but my understanding is that even when the Bill was gazetted, once a Bill is gazetted that is a call for contributions from members of the public, and you write to the Clerk with whatever contributions that you have. The window for contributions was very open and the Portfolio Committee also advertised where they were doing Public Hearings and called for contributions to the Bill.
I believe this Bill is a product of very wide consultations and regarding the clause that she says allows non-access on Government borrowing. On the contrary, the Constitution provides for that. All our borrowings as a Government if you go into the Constitution, Section 300 spells out the manner in which the Government has to borrow and what has to happen. If you go to Section 327, it also states that any agreement the Government has that has financial obligations, Parliament has to know. So, the legal instruments; we cannot produce a Bill that is unconstitutional. We have a Parliamentary Legal Committee that looks at all our Bills and this Bill passed through that test which means that that was taken care of.
I agree with you that the Bill seeks to protect rights enshrined in Section 61 and Section 62 of the Constitution. If you go into the Bill, the title of the Bill, the preamble, it specifically refers to Section 61 of the Constitution so that is taken care of.
As regards to limitation in the provision of information in written form, I am not sure how somebody can get information and be able to authenticate it if it is verbal. So we are trying to safeguard both ends to say that you are requesting information. Surely, you maybe visually impaired but there are several mechanisms to ensure that the information that you request, you will be able to understand even if it is in a written form, you must be able to get somebody to tell you what that information means. It is not only about access but about using that information to assert your right or for the public interest. Son all that is covered in the Bill and those safeguards on the nature of the information and the format are done to ensure that there is no abuse and that the information can be provided in a usable manner. I move that the Bill be read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6A, 2019]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 41 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6A, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Information and Technology has failed us but I just want to thank the Senate for a job well done. Mr. President Sir, this is one of the Bills that have been very contentious. You will recall we have had a lot of problems with the Access to Information and Publicity Act and this day is very historic as you can see from the last clause of the Bill that it is going to repeal AIPPA. This Senate will be recorded in history as having given effect to the rights enshrined under Section 61 of the Constitution. Mr. President Sir, having worked very hard, I move that the House do now adjourn until tomorrow so that we can enjoy ourselves and start tomorrow afresh. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Minister
has come this afternoon with a lot of humour which is very good and we keep this spirit always that we end the day on a joyous note. I also want to comment after the comment by the Minister that indeed, we should have mentioned that we came from POSA which was a controversial piece of legislation, AIPPA and then today, I think it is worth congratulating the Senate and the Minister. This Bill was one of the
Bills linked to good governance, issues of human rights and freedom rights. The good thing Minister, is that we have passed the Bill with no amendment, no acrimony, no voting. It means this is a very unanimous position and we should congratulate ourselves as a country not just as Parliament.
Motion put and agreed to.
The House adjourned at Twenty-Six minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 12th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege. Madam Speaker, your Chair made a ruling on the issue of those that do not recognise His Excellency the President, Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa. It is my thinking Madam Speaker, that may you make a ruling today that until such time that we have recognition by the members of the other party of His Excellency the President Cde. E. D. Mnangagwa who is the First Secretary of ZANU PF and the President of this country, if there has not been any formal recognition, I ask that the Committees that are chaired by the opposition have temporary chairpersons - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – by people that recognise His Excellency the President.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, it puts me in an invidious position to attend a Committee that is chaired by somebody who does not recognise my President. As a party, ZANU PF, it is actually very dangerous for us and for me in particular to attend a Committee that is being chaired by somebody who does not recognise my principal. I will give an example, where I come from in the Public Accounts Committee, there is an exofficio Member of Parliament who is the Auditor-General who sits and guides our operations. The Chair of that Committee, naturally we recognise the Auditor-General’s report and by inference, we are recognising somebody who is an appointee of the President but they then fail as the opposition to recognise His Excellency that on its own is quite
‘ultra vires the operations and ethical conduct of Parliament and
Parliamentarians [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
I ask therefore Madam Speaker Ma’am that you make a ruling that until there is recognition of His Excellency by the Chairpersons of the opposition, there be temporary chairpersons put in place for the sole reason of progress. Those chairpersons must be persons coming from the party that recognises the President. I ask that today, here and now, you make a ruling - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - for us to progress without any impediments so that we continue to conduct our business - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Point of order Madam Speaker.] – People of Chegutu West
Constituency and those of the majority ZANU PF - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – they asked that you make a ruling. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. MADZIMURE: He should go for a hearing because he stole money from ZINARA. He is a thief.] - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members
please take your seats. Let me give a ruling first. Please take your seats Hon. Members. Hon. Nduna, I have heard you but I cannot give a ruling on that matter because that matter is under investigation by the Privileges Committee, so I cannot give a ruling on it. Thank you.
HON. MATEWU: My point of privilege rises from the fact that the Coronavirus has been declared a pandemic by WHO. Now, we as a nation and us as an institution and as Members of Parliament, need to take precaution. We ask that this parliament complex when people are coming in whether Members, staff or visitors be given some sanitizers or sanitizer towels to ensure that our safety is of firsthand. I can give an example of Iran where about 37 Members of Parliament have been affected by coronavirus and in other countries like the UK. In fact there have been deaths in a country like Iran. I implore your office Madam Speaker for the Executive to ensure that those countries which pose a high risk to our citizens such as China, Iran and Italy have travel restrictions put in place like what Lesotho has done today, to restrict all travel to restrict all travellers coming in their country from anywhere. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matewu, I hear you. It is true coronavirus is very scary. The authorities are taking some measures regarding that issue.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, on a point of clarity his point was what is Parliament doing? Why can we not just have sanitizers only?
You are the authority who can rule that from tomorrow or next week Parliament will ensure that the necessary measures have been taken.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: As for sanitizers, we will request the administration to provide the sanitizers to each and every Member of Parliament. Thank you.
HON. KASHIRI: Madam Speaker, still on the issue of coronavirus. We as parliamentarians come from different parts of the country. It is prudent that if it were possible through the Minister of Health, we have a compulsory testing every week here in Parliament so that we know our status since we sit here three days a week. Just testing for Corona Virus, Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Kashiri, I hear you. We will
look into it and give you feedback.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
STATE OF ZIFA
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. CONVENTRY): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
will be giving the two statements. The first one was a request from Hon.
Members of Parliament to come and give a Ministerial Statement on the state of ZIFA and then follow up with the state of affairs of the national stadia and where they are.
Madam Speaker, it is no secret that ZIFA for the last few years has been facing different challenges and that has been affecting the development of football, the country and that has also been affecting our national players at regional, continental and international levels. These challenges are ranging from poor administration and governance of the body, as well as development of players. The Sports and Recreation Commission is working closely with ZIFA to resolve these challenges but it is important to point out that SRC and Government can only step in to a certain degree, otherwise we will face a ban from FIFA.
For the African Cup of Nations, if you will allow me Madam Speaker to give you a run down on state of affairs. They were many reports in the media. ZIFA supported by the Sport and Recreation Commission and the Ministry of Sport requested His Excellency to appoint a Committee to mobilise funds. That Committee was chaired by Hon. Minister Kazembe Kazembe. That Committee raised and gave ZIFA US$87 000 and Z$3, 5 million to go towards the Warriors AFCON matches. The support of Government towards the Warriors funding and the support from the AFCON Fundraising Committee, the Warriors did not perform to the best of their ability we were eliminated in the Group stages.
The Confederation of African Football dispersed sporting and sporting grants and these grants have not yet been disclosed by ZIFA to the SRC when request. The Senior Men’s National Team from AFCON Campaign was met by disagreements, disputes and triggered the team’s mistrust in the leadership of ZIFA. The Women’s Senior National Team, the Mighty Warriors have faced similar challenges in the preparation and participation for the qualifiers for the 2020 Olympics as well as the World Cup. The SRC alarmed by the state of affairs requested ZIFA to give a detailed report on how they manage the National Teams’ preparation and participation in the AFCON campaign and the Olympic qualifiers, and to date ZIFA has not submitted any report.
The SRC recommended for the disciplinary of ZIFA in terms of Section 30 of the SRC Act and in turn ZIFA wrote to FIFA to dissolve and set up a Normalisation Committee. FIFA rejected what the SRC was recommending and highlighted that if the SRC went forward with the Normalisation Committee the Government would be tamed as interfering and as the FIFA statutes state, Zimbabwe would then be banned.
ZIFA’s debt and overhanging financial status – ZIFA’S legacy debt is around US$8 million and this definitely affecting the administration and operation of the federation.
Recommendations – The SRC should convene capacity development programmes targeting the ZIFA fraternity. ZIFA should work fully to benefit from the FIFA projects, funding, support infrastructural development, FIFA forward projects and ZIFA should start been more transparent.
If you will allow me Madam Chair, I will give an update on the refurbishment of the football stadia. Once my office had been aware of the ...
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of Order Madam Speaker. Sorry
Hon. Minister to disturb you but the ZIFA report which is being tabled before Parliament has information gathered at a time when some Hon. Members were part of that ZIFA and I want your guidance as to whether that report can be discussed whilst they are in here or not.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chikwinya, I think this
is just a Ministerial Statement which was requested by Hon. Members. Also, those Members who were members of ZIFA are no longer members of ZIFA. I do not think there is any harm for them to be in here. Hon. Minister, please may you go ahead.
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): Thank you Madam Speaker.
Allow me to give an update on upgrading of the refurbishment of the football stadia and the measures that we have taken so far. As some
Hon. Members may know, the stadia does not fall within my Ministry. When I was notified that CAF has sent ZIFA the preliminary report on the status about stadia which was on the 27th of February, we decided to put together a Committee which met on the 27th of February to figure out a way forward and develop a plan of action which is urgently needed to carry out renovations, to be upgraded towards the CAF specifications.
This was to be done on National Sports Stadium, Barbourfields and
Sakubva.
We undertook the inspection for the major stadia with particular emphasis on the three stadia There was engagement with local Government, the Minister of Local Government and Public Works, his team of experts and the different councils. Council owned stadia are
Barbourfelds and Sakubva. We then engaged the Zimbabwe Olympic Committee, the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services to obtain different specifications for the Doping Control Office and the different media facilities that CAF require from stadia.
On progress made so far, we want to thank Government for it has availed $23 million towards the National Sports Stadium, $13 million towards Barbourfields and on Sakubva, we are waiting; it is around $3 to 5 million for what is needed to be done for that stadium.
Bulawayo City Council commenced work on upgrades of
Barbourfields on the 2nd March, 2020 and should be completed by the
16th and the work started at the National Sports Stadium on the 3rd March, 2020 and should also be completed by the 16th. However, there are two requirements that CAF needs, which are bucket seats and electronic ticketing. This takes a longer time for procurement and also a longer time to build the back of the house for the electronic ticketing. It is being worked on. Those two items have been spoken and explained to CAF on the need for longer terms and they since said that we can start working on everything else while we bring on those two final prospects.
Madam Speaker, today we have two inspectors from FIFA that are here inspecting. They will be at the National Sports Stadium and I believe they will be travelling to Bulawayo. We also have started the process of hand-over from the stadia falling under the control of Local Government within my Ministry.
Lastly, Madam Speaker, we have seen today that the Health
Minister has advised teams not to be travelling to countries where there are confirmed cases of coronavirus. We are standing guided by what he has presented. We have also requested ZIFA to go back and seek guidance from CAF. From what I have seen in the newspaper today, Algeria is putting in very specific rules and regulations. So as for the upcoming games in the next month, we are unsure as of right now whether or not those games will happen as scheduled. Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister,
Hon. Members may now ask points of clarification from the Minister.
HON. PETER MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
take this opportunity to thank the Hon. Minister for giving us the state of affairs in our football. It took long because we requested your Chair to make a ruling in October last year, 2019 and in November you had requested the Minister to come the first week of February, 2020 when we opened this Parliament but unfortunately it could not happen, may be because of other reasons which are best known to themselves.
Madam Speaker, there is one component which the Hon. Minister left out, that is the issue of ZIFA being audited by the Auditor General because they receive funds from Government. There is no way ZIFA can operate in isolation leaving Government out of any football equation. So when we are talking about FIFA banning us from participating in any football activity because we have asked ZIFA to be transparent, let us be banned as long as we are going to correct what is wrong in our football.
Madam Speaker, this is very embarrassing and the current ZIFA Executive is an embarrassment to this country. They are putting our country at the wrong map. They are operating in Mars rather than operating in this country. Right now, if you look at how ZIFA is operating they are busy banning everybody who dares to ask them to be transparent. How many members have been banned in this august House? These are people who are trying to be transparent. Those people are busy looting funds, they went to Egypt – they got all the support. Football is a unifier, it knows no boundaries. When football is being played at the National Sports Stadium everybody goes to watch football. It is the biggest employer in this country but some people see it as an opportunity to loot whatever little resources they get.
Madam Speaker, when we raised this issue in October last year, CAF had not banned us. What is going to happen is, we are going to play our football in a foreign land. This has never happened in the history of this country. Madam Speaker, it means that we are going to lose a lot of resources. We are going to lose the much needed foreign currency. Our hotels are not going to benefit anything but other countries are going to benefit. So if we say Government should not interfere when people are playing around with other people lives what does that mean to those who irk a living from playing football.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon, can you ask your
question.
HON. PETER MOYO: I have already asked a question on the issue of the Auditor General which has been answered. My plea is that Government through the Sports and Recreation Commission must make sure that this ZIFA does not handle our football, otherwise we are going to be in abyss because of the current ZIFA leading football in this country. I would like to request the Hon. Minister to bite lest this august House becomes Brutum fulmen. If this august House does not intervene on such an important issue like football, then this august House becomes a circus; it will not work. Madam Speaker, I request the Hon. Minister to tell us whether what was twitted was true or not, maybe it was a hoax that the stadia are going to be run by the Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation. If it is true, that is a blessing in disguise.
Madam Speaker, you must also understand that when the
Government is coming in to assist in football, it must correct certain things. Look at our local authorities, they are handicapped. Our football pitches are like potato fields. If you go out there you will find that there are so many foreign players who can assist this country. They can refurbish our stadia. I thank you.
HON. MBONDIAH: Thank you Madam Speaker for awarding
me this opportunity. I would also like to thank the Hon. Minister for the clarification that she has brought here. My concern Madam Speaker is that does it have to take a meeting to have a stadium fixed. How does a stadium become condemned when you know very well that the first thing in a field is to have grass? They have set down and gave deadlines of four days, six days, 14 days to fix a field, to fix lights, simple things like that; yet ZIFA has been given a budget from the Ministry. My question to the Minister is, does it have to take a boardroom meeting to have simple things like lights, grass and toilets being fixed in the stadia?
I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the two Ministerial Statements which are important. Madam Speaker, sport is a multibillion dollar industry. If well run, it will create many jobs, a lot of income for the country, not only that, there is sport tourism as well. My point of clarity Hon. Minister, is clear about the international organisations which are there. I do not know if the rules of FIFA allow people to steal and stay in office? I would like to know if that is a rule FIFA has that if you steal, you can still be in office. What I know is that most countries have also run sport through their laws. While we are a member of FIFA, we are not regulated by FIFA in terms of the laws of this country. FIFA equally respects the laws of this country. That is also one doctrine which must be understood. If the Minister wants to be the most popular Minister, if you ban all sports associations right now, you will be the most popular Minister in this country and work on a proper development plan. Right now, there is no proper development plan that we can talk about. To me, the question is what development plan ZIFA has in terms of football. What I am asking is in the first year, we are going to do this, in the second year we are going to do this because all these great nations that achieve results – the Hon. Minister is a good example of a top athlete. She knows that there was a programme. She had to do so much at a certain time. Why in her wisdom does she think that sport can develop without a proper plan? There is absolutely no proper plan and it is her responsibility. This is where I seek clarity again.
It is the responsibility of the SRC which is mandated to see how these sports are being run. The SRC has that responsibility because it deals with all affiliates. What is the mandate of the SRC in ensuring that these associations are complying? One of the issues of complying is to produce financial statements. If you do not produce financial statements Hon. Minister, you know that you are banned by SRC because it is part of the regulations of you being affiliated to them. When did ZIFA last submit their financial statements to SRC? If they did not, they are not even supposed to be functioning because these are audited reports which they look at and so forth. We cannot blame the administrators when there is a law. We must now look at those who are responsible for enforcing the law, whether they are enforcing the law or not. I think the regulations are very clear on that. In terms of Section 13 of the SRC...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, next time you
do not refer to the lady Minister as Mr. Minister. Next time you say Hon. Minister.
HON. T. MLISWA: I think it was just a slip of the tongue. You know that I am very eloquent and articulate it was just a slip of the tongue and I am sorry about that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I went to the University in the United Kingdom – [Laughter.] – The issue is in terms of the banning, I am glad that Hon.
Phillip Chiyangwa is here. The Minister knows that FIFA did allow ZIFA to face whatever action as long as they involved Hon. Chiyangwa who is a member of COSAFA because he would report to them. Hon. Chiyangwa is well connected at that level more than most African people with FIFA. We are quite protected in that regard and they gave the mandate that he be part of the team with the SRC to dissolve this. So this came from FIFA and I would like Hon. Chiyangwa who is here today to talk on this as well. I hope you can contribute on your appointment by FIFA on how football should be handled here.
Gushungo, I hope nhasi muchatitaurirawo motibetserawo ipapo.
To me, what is the Minister’s position on that because when it went to FIFA, FIFA agreed and said you can do whatever you want as long as one of our members is involved and they seconded Hon. Chiyangwa to be part of the process of cleansing out ZIFA. Hon. Minister, it is absolutely a shame for this House to allow people who have violated the laws to continue in office. Our role of oversight does not allow us to do that. Grants have been given, they have not been accounted for and the issue of submitting yearly statements to SRC has not been done. What are they still doing in office? They have realised that the system is weak. As a result they are just pilfering money every day. Hon. Minister, you do not have to worry about football because it is a black sport, they will say you are being racist. Administration is administration whether black, Indian or coloured. All we want are the rules to be followed. Be protected by your conscience as a sport person that the good of sport in this country can only happen through good governance of sport and there is no good governance of sport. I implore you Hon. Minister, what would Zimbabwe lose by being banned by FIFA. We are always losing everyday anyway. Our associations have no money to be able to context. It will give us some breathing space to find money to put programmes in place and for us to look forward to what will happen and so forth. The only thing that we have done, we have allowed people who are criminals to go into sport and steal money. It is the same as cricket, rugby and so forth. The entire sporting structure in this country has been destroyed because of people who are out there because our administrators are weak in terms of enforcing that. In terms of the stadiums, my clarity with the Minister is that are you now in total control of all the stadiums or it is just the National Sports
Stadium? Are you in control of Barbour Fields, Rufaro Stadium, the Chitungwiza Acquatic Complex, Luveve Stadium and all the other stadiums? Are you in control of the Hockey Stadium. Again, I would like to know in terms of that, how far does your mandate go. Is it because there was this havoc and now it has been given to you and we are now less being reactionary rather than planning. I have always lobbied that the sports facilities must fall under sports and Public Works must maintain them at the end of the day. I see the money that you have been given, $23 million for the National Sports Stadium. I do not know whether it was US dollars or it is part of this money where inflation is eating it and the rate is changing. Hon. Minister, is the money that you have been given enough to be able to repair these stadium? You did indicate that there are also other things which are needed by CAF in terms of the ticketing and so forth and you did say that it is not in place.
Why not just take our time and make sure that things are done properly. With the respect that you have in sport internationally, you can start lobbying from other agencies that can bring in proper money and so
forth.
The other issue in terms of the stadia is what other plans do you have for the stadia? Is it just football or you intend to also have a programme of event management so that you can earn some revenue by renting them out to churches, political parties and so forth? What plan do you have in terms of ensuring that there is revenue which is being earned? Lastly, I want to once again ask the question on the sporting policy that this Government has pertaining to soccer in the Country? I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have a few points.
When you want to see far, you stand on the shoulders of giants. A prophet is not recognised in his own country. We have amid us people like Hon. T. Mliswa who has just said a leader in the form and mould of Hon. Chiyangwa, he is a member of the biggest block in the whole continent called COSAFA. The quicker we recognise that we have such an influential position, a person who is not only in leadership position in
COSAFA, he is also a leader in this country in terms of his constituency.
The man I am talking about is the one that made sure Alfentino is the Chairperson of FIFA...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask questions Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: Yes Madam Speaker, I am getting there. He is also the one credited with ushering in the CAF President, besides being credited by his elevation to being President of COSAFA. It is my fervent hope and clarion call to the Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation that they need to consult and collaborate and coordinate and network with Hon. Chiyangwa in order to get us from the mud that we are currently in. We should not despise him, we need to swallow our pride and consult him. He is not where he is by mistake and the people I have spoken about, the President of FIFA and that of CAF are not where they are by mistake but credit should be given to the COSAFA President.
Madam Speaker, the second issue that I want to bring in is the takeover not only of stadia in big towns, there should be takeover of all sporting facilities including stadia in local authorities, an example is Chegutu and Pfupajena stadiums. This is where we produce the talent that this country is currently endowed with and they then go to bigger cities and towns. So the Hon. Minister should make sure that she has also taken over the stadia in various other low lying cities, areas and municipality areas.
I have given an example of Pfupajena stadium in Chegutu and those practice stadia that are behind Pfupajena stadium. We have got the likes of Dhliwayo who is now plying his trade at Makwiro who has been produced in Chegutu. I am just giving an example Madam Speaker that let us not ignore those stadia until a time when we have been banned.
The third issue is to enhance revenue generation and revenue collection. There is need to have a tax that is directed to the agents that front for our soccer operative or football players. There are agencies that represent those soccer players. They should be taxed for that money they after they sell the players and also represent the players out there. For argument sake, we have got Nakamba who is in London and there are a lot of taxes that can be derived from such sales and from such a movement from domestic to international. So, the taxes should accrue to the Hon. Minister of Sports because football is a multibillion dollar industry. We need to get what we can and use what we have from football to enhance our stadium.
The last issue is that I spoke of football stadia, I now talk of swimming pools. They should also be taken over and fall under the purview of the Hon. Minister, Hon. Coventry who herself is credited by an ambiguous amount of medals to her credit of swimming accolades. I ask that she also takes over the swimming pools because Madam Speaker...
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: On a point of order Madam
Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: I do not think it is fair for us to be forced to listen to someone giving another Ministerial Statement. The point is that you ask for clarification or question then you follow up the Ministerial Statement. This is now a boring repeat or a lesser version of the original statement. He is out of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are correct Hon.
Member, Hon. Nduna, please ask your questions.
HON. NDUNA: As I conclude there is need to use our ambiguous amount of mineral wealth that we have in order to enhance the capacity...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, you are not
supposed to be debating please ask questions and sit down.
HON. NDUNA: I am merely concluding. I am making a proposal that the Hon. Minister of Youth, Sports, Arts and Recreation gets embedded with the Minister of Mines who is here. Some of that money that we drive from his industry should also be apportioned to her industry so that we can enhance the capacity of our stadia Madam Speaker. I thank you for giving me this opportunity of getting the voice of Chegutu West Constituency to be heard - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mliswa please give
others a chance to debate.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is a point of order which is important – [HON. MADZIMURE: Inaudible interjections.] - You are also allowed to make a point of order. I do not know why you are angry.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead Hon. Mliswa. You
are wasting time, please.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of order is, Hon. Saruwaka will
recall that the last time the Hon. Speaker was in the Chair I said stadiums and he said I was wrong, it is stadia. I would actually like to correct that. In terms of Google, the plural for stadium can be stadiums or stadia. So, you can use stadiums but the Speaker said I cannot use it. Everybody is using stadia because they were told by the Speaker not to use stadiums – [AN HON. MEMBER: There is no point order.] – No. I am trying to help to correct. My point of order is that they do not have to say stadia, they can say stadiums. It is allowed. I am somebody who likes to correct as well.
HON. O. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker
Ma’am. Also thank you very much Hon. Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation for your presentation. I think it was very clear. What I want to say to you Hon. Minister is that it is very easy to remove those who are failing to perform from their offices. Nothing bars you from doing that. As I speak, there is a letter which was written by FIFA to ZIFA saying that they can request for an exemption for two years or more whilst they are sorting themselves out because of the legacy debt.
There is no interference Hon. Minister in sport as long as you have got facts to disband ZIFA. As we speak, you have got the facts of disbanding ZIFA. They are abusing public funds from FIFA and ZIFA as it is, is an agent of FIFA; it is owned by FIFA. Therefore, it falls under the purview of the Government. Government has got a say on anything which ZIFA does. This is why the Government funds ZIFA at any given time. Where we have got the problem Madam Speaker is that people at ZIFA are not serious about the welfare of the people of Zimbabwe in terms of football.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, please ask
your question.
HON. O. SIBANDA: Madam Speaker, my question is: is the Minister aware that on the issues to do with the stadiums, is she aware that ZIFA was given a notice of the state of stadiums from 13th November, last year? CAF wrote a letter to ZIFA and said that they were coming to inspect National Stadium, Babourfields Stadium and Mandava Stadium. As a follow up, they came on the 1st December,
2019 and inspected the stadiums. They communicated to ZIFA on 3rd December, 2019 and said that Mandava and National Stadium had failed and Babourfields had some few issues to attend to. ZIFA did not communicate with the owners of the stadium. CAF wrote a letter again in January, reminding ZIFA that they had not received anything. In that letter, they said that the first instance those who inspect grounds should do a preliminary check on the stadiums. Is the Minister aware that ZIFA did not send their own grounds people to inspect Babourfields Stadium? Sometime end of January, CAF wrote another letter and said they have barred Babourfields Stadium also. Nobody took action Madam Speaker. Since that day up to March, no action was taken to rectify the problems at Babourfields Stadium.
Is the Minister also aware that ZIFA was not communicating with the local authority and SRC? Now that the games are close by and it is a national disaster, ZIFA stands up and says it is too late and CAF is removing the games from here. Madam Speaker, the Minister should interrogate why ZIFA did that. To prove that Madam Speaker, ZIFA their worry is banning people. They have banned Hon. Banda for no reason. They are busy doing all sorts of things. Their core business is to run football and nothing else. Hon. Minister, are you aware that Hon. Philip Chiyangwa is the President of COSAFA, a regional body which looks after 14 countries in Africa in terms of football? However, ZIFA shouting at him through the newspapers – [HON. S. BANDA: Banda must be back tomorrow.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Banda – [HON.
- BANDA: Handisini Banda wacho.] – [Laughter.] –
HON. O. SIBANDA: Madam Speaker, is the Minister aware that Hon. Philip Chiyangwa is the President of a big body in Southern Africa called COSAFA, which is composed of 14 countries? He said that he was going to organise with CAF but the people at ZIFA go out publicly to ridicule Hon. Chiyangwa. Why? Do you know Hon. Minister that we have got a person who can solve this for us here in Zimbabwe?
Finally Madam Speaker, is the Hon. Minister aware that people at ZIFA are not respecting SRC and the Sports Portfolio Committee. They do as they please. It is not right Madam Speaker. We need sanity in football. We need people to do things which they went into office for, that of running football. I am pleading with the Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation to look into the matter. If she does not have tools to deal with ZIFA, we are there to assist her. Thank you very much.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon. Minister, I would want some clarification. Normally the Government follows up on its money. A number of countries around us invest a lot in their national teams. As a result, they have got influence in the running of soccer itself. Are you considering a situation where our national teams carry the dignity of Zimbabwe as they move around? We have heard that our teams have been stranded and those players that play football in foreign lands, especially Europe, have on several occasions bailed out the national teams.
Secondly Madam Speaker, when ZIFA was informed that there were going to be inspections, why did the Government allow the situation to get to where it is now when it knew very well that ZIFA had no capacity to do so? It is up to the Government to make sure that the integrity of our national teams is protected. So, why did the Government not intervene especially when you know that the administration that is running our football has its own problems? Through the Sports and Recreational Council, the Government could have followed.
My other question of clarification has to do with the National
Sports Stadium. The National Sports Stadium is run by the Ministry of
Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. How come the
Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation which knows exactly
what is required of a stadium for it to be a certified stadium that can be used for competitive sporting programs not keep it well maintained.
I am happy to hear that the Ministry of Sport is going to take over but I think the most important thing is that the structure of the stadium is the responsibility of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Why is the Ministry of Sport not monitoring the maintenance of stadium because it is the end user of the stadium?
Finally, the local authorities have got their own problems. They cannot fully maintain stadiums, what is the Ministry going to do from now; going forward to make sure that the stadiums are maintained?
What are they doing to develop our children from grassroots?
Madam Speaker, you cannot expect to have stars when they start competing at the age of 18 years and above. That is impossible. If you look at the constituencies that we have, some of us are trying to build sports and recreational facilities but the Constituency Development Fund is not even enough for us to do so. However, the only way we can develop our people is to start from grassroots. What is the policy that
the Ministry has to make sure that we mould administrators and sports personnel from the grassroots?
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
thank the Hon. Minister for Sports for the presentation. However, I would want the Hon. Minister to advise this House on how much money has the Ministry been allocated by Treasury for the renovation and for the work at the National Sports Stadium? If there has been no money, we want to find out. I have looked into the budget of your Ministry and I am failing to locate where the funds are coming from. Has the ministry of Finance given a special amount towards your Ministry to do the work?
Secondly, I would also want to find out apart from the National Sports Stadium, we have heard that the other stadiums are all in a bad state. How much money is going to those stadiums? Added to that, we also want to find out how much money is going to other sporting facilities that have decayed?. If you look at all the sports infrastructure like swimming pools, basket ball pitches, the aquatic complex in Chitungwiza and the Magamba Hockey Stadium are dilapidated. We want to find out how much money has been allocated to your Ministry if any. We do not want to be reactive to problems but we should have a long term strategy in terms of dealing with the issues.
Hon. Minister, I would also want to understand; in terms of accountability to check and understand that all the work that is going to be done is going to be done above board. There is a forensic report pertaining to the work that was done some years back and it was done under a cloud of corruption. So, now that your Ministry has been given the responsibility, can you assure this Hon. House that transparency in terms of the utilisation of those resources will be assured at your Ministry?
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORTS, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): Thank you Madam Speaker.
Allow me to start answering some of the questions. There were some questions that were asked that will be responded to, together as they were quite similar. The first issue about auditing ZIFA, as I had said in my report, we had contacted FIFA directly to request for a
Normalisation Commission. Part of that Normalisation Commission was because they in that commission from FIFA through the efex Commission which sits outside of FIFA as a private entity can then come in and do a full audit of accounts. When there was money that comes to an association from an international federation, Government or a sub-Government group cannot audit a national federation.
I take note that the Hon Member and other Hon. Members are quite happy for Government to step in and quite happy for us to then be banned as a country. I would ask that we all remember the time that we stepped in with cricket we were banned and the same people were not happy that we were then banned. I would also like to remind people to then take note of recognition…
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! The Minister cannot say that the Auditor General or Government cannot audit ZIFA. For as long as there are public funds in any entity, there can be an audit. So I wanted to correct it to say that the money, if it is coming from
Government, we can follow the money and ZIFA can be audited.
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Madam Speaker. Allow me to correct Hon. Mliswa. As I just said, when you have funds coming from an international federation into an account of a national federation, governments are not allowed to request for an audited set of accounts. Government is allowed to request for an audit on the money that they have given which we have done, which ZIFA has provided us. I cannot request ZIFA to show me what they do with FIFA money or CAF money, we will get banned. I cannot inquire as Government to ZIFA to give me an audited set of accounts that shows money from the international federation. That was my point.
HON. T. MLISWA: What I am saying is this, the SRC has got a very clear mandate that if you are an affiliate of them, you must produce audit on financial statements. So she is contradicting herself by saying that no one can ask for a financial statement and if you do not produce the financial statements you can be barred from being an affiliate of SRC. I am I right or wrong Hon. Minister?
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am going to continue to answer the questions and then at the end and we will then ask Hon. Mliswa if I have answered his questions.
HON. T. MLISWA: On point of order –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please allow the Minister to finish – [HON. MLISWA: No, this is about us accounting. The point of clarity...] – Please allow the Minister to continue – [HON. T. MLISWA: No, we cannot allow her to continue when there are issues. The SRC in its rules, when you are an affiliate must produce financial statements at the end of the year the same way with Public Finance Management. The ministries must produce quarterly reports. So it is a regulation...] – Hon.
Mliswa, you will have a chance for now she must answer – [HON. MLISWA: No, she must give an answer to that because it is important in terms of clarity. We need to account properly, the SRC you being an affiliate must produce financial statements at the end of the year. It is as simple as that unless she is saying they cannot then we know.] – Hon. Mliswa, we must allow the Hon. Minister to finish responding then we will ask another set of questions. Please take your seat Hon. Mliswa.
HON. CONVENTRY: Allow me to continue because I believe Hon. Mliswa, your point of SRC was actually one of your questions that you asked. You were the third person to ask so I am just going through the order in which I was answering questions and – [HON. MLISWA: If you say so.] – I did say I was going to respond.
I believe that I answered the first question and I would like to agree with the Hon. Member in terms of soccer and sport being a unifier. This is something that I personally saw when I came back in 2004. So I know the power that sport has. In terms of city councils they are responsible for the maintenance but unfortunately that is not what has been happening. So, our entire city councils are supposed to be putting money back into the stadium. If the stadia are run correctly from the soccer games that are held at those stadiums, if the money from the gate takings is put back into the stadiums we would not have this problem but that money has not been going back into the stadiums. That has been happening over the last plus years, not in the last 18 months.
The Hon. Member who I believe is no longer here in terms of whether a meeting was required. If there was a call for Hon. Members of this esteemed House for there to be transparency, then there is a need for stakeholders to come together that were called by my office because my office and the people that I work with are the technocrats and they needed to explain to the other stakeholders who did not have the background in terms of what is needed, the urgency, how and what was needed to happen so yes, that meeting needed to happen. If she has further questions she can come and I will be happy to explain it further to her.
Coming on to Hon. Mliswa, I cannot have or make any statement on the running of FIFA. That is something that you as a Member can put in writing and send to them directly. I agree that and if anyone is favour as I said before, if we want ZIFA to be banned from international and continental games, that is something that we can do but in terms of coming back and getting back to an affiliated member, there is a long process and it just does not take a few years – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – Yes, but cricket was a different situation. FIFA is not the same. As far as I am concerned and I will always consider our athletes who deserve better than what is happening and they do not deserve for us administrators not to do our job correctly to be banned and not play the game that they love.
In terms of national strategy, there is a National Sports Strategy that is taking place right now. It is being put together by the SRC. They have held different meetings with all stakeholders on the ground. We have invited South Africa and Botswana, and have conversations with other international organisation that will be coming to help us work through this so that everybody knows what the policy and structure is, and what is guiding sport in this country.
In terms of the Hon. Member mentioning Hon. Chiyangwa’s appointment from FIFA, it is the first time I am hearing this. I have continued with FIFA and CAF, and as far as I am concerned and as far as the regulations are COSAFA do not really fall within CAF or FIFA regulations. They do not report to but sit as a regional body not as an international or continental body. So they actually do not have much power within FIFA or CAF.
As far as the statement that FIFA appointed the former ZIFA President, as I said that is not what FIFA told me directly. If there is evidence of this, I ask you to please bring it forward. SRC is also reevaluating the Act and yes, every national federation is required to give a set of order to the accounts. As mentioned at the beginning, that order to the accounts does not have to pertain to money coming from the international federations or private organisation. To date, we have received certain order to the accounts.
One of the members was asking if Government had requested ZIFA to show the money trail. We have requested and I actually stopped giving money ZIFA when they did not pay our female players for the games that they had played. So the money to ZIFA was stopped. In terms of the money that I mentioned, it is our local currency that is being given and is enough for the works that are needed but it is not enough for the upkeep and maintenance that will be required in the coming years.
Plans for the stadia and the policy towards soccer – that is all still to be determined. We are in the initial stages in terms of plans for the stadium and I will share that with this Hon. august House as soon as I have those plans but my hope is that it will be in collaboration with the international federations because we have had initial conversations with them in terms of the development of soccer for the country.
In terms of the question revolving again COSAFA, the former
President stepping in and I have just explained that it is not affiliated to
CAF or FIFA with instructions. COSAFA do not report to CAF or FIFA. ZIFA are the only ones that report to CAF and FIFA. Inasmuch as it was appreciated that the COSAFA President tried to talk to CAF, it actually made my job much harder because there was no respect given to the Deputy Secretary General of CAF as he is the President of Inspections within CAF and he was disrespected by the COSAFA President for not going to him and giving the respect needed, of which I had to then step
in.
In terms of the tax and sport tax, that is an on-going conversation that we are having with the Ministry of Finance and I can come back to this august House with future plans.
On giving the timeline, again as mentioned in my statement, I was not given and ZIFA did not come to the relevant Ministry such as myself in November and December, 2019. It has come out that ZIFA did not communicate with the correct authorities or the correct people. I will make sure that something is done because of this. As I said, it has added extra frustration, extra delays and it has added CAF to ban our stadia because of no communication from ZIFA back to CAF or to even give recognition to CAF’s letter of 1st December.
On taking over the stadia, yes right now the stadia that falls under Local Government is the National Sports Stadium, Chitungwiza and the two hockey stadia. The rest of the stadia in the country fall under city council. We can now have conversations with the different city councils, but again, it comes back to management. I believe that there is a desire within our city council and from what we have seen with Bulawayo and Harare City Council over the last few days, there is a desire for people on the ground to learn how to manage these facilities correctly. It will be a programme that we will be approaching FIFA to help with so that the right management can start occurring amongst all our stadiums.
There was an Hon. Member who mentioned grassroots and this will also add on to Hon. Mliswa’s response. What we are doing this year as a Ministry is trying to revamp and re-energised 40 recreational spaces. Part of these spaces, there will be development for sport, coaches and talent identification programmes that will be happening. There will be the involvement of the national federations but this will be led by the Ministry.
On release of money in terms of the warriors not being paid, again this was something. When our players were not being looked after the money from Ministry stopped. There was no money going to ZIFA when the players had not been paid by ZIFA. An Hon. Member asked how much money was allocated from Treasury to my Ministry for the National Sports Stadium. Again, I just remind the Hon. Member that the stadium falls under Local Government. Unfortunately, this has been part of the longstanding problem over the last few years as there has never been an allocation from Treasury given to National Stadium in order to obtain and maintain name.
Going forward, this national programme has been given special project; special money from His Excellency and the Minister of Finance and that is how we are moving along. We have the Cabinet agreement of last week of moving these national sports stadia to my Ministry. There was also recognition that there is need for specific funding allocated in future and I can assure you that I will have that conversation with the Minister of Finance.
The last point came down to accountability. I can assure you and I hope that in future you will be asking all these questions and continuing to ask these questions to me and my Ministry. You can be assured that we will be transparent. As soon as the stadia fall under me and are handed over to me officially, we will then look and call for ideas from yourselves and the public on how best to manage them. The idea on moving forward is, if we want to get recognition and for sport to be a part of this billion dollar project as it is, it must be done professionally and privately. Those are the areas which we will be looking at in the future. Madam Speaker, I believe I have answered all the questions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon. Members,
you can now seek further clarifications.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Madam Speaker, my point of clarification to the Hon. Minister is that she has said the information regarding grants as requested from ZIFA is not being submitted to the SRC. May the
Hon. Minister enlighten us on what the rules say and what is the remedy. ZIFA reports as requested, what is the recourse because we cannot allow a situation whereby your institution does not comply with your own
rules.
Hon. Minister may you enlighten us as well, you mentioned that ZIFA receives funds from FIFA. Do these funds include infrastructural development? I think it is a yes or no answer. If it is a yes, what form of infrastructure? CAF presented reports as way back as October, 2019 and Hon. Minister in your capacity as the Minister responsible for sports, what action did you take to save the disaster under which we are in now. CAF issued reports on our stadia to the extent that FC Platinum was barred from using Mandava Stadium and were advised to use
Barbourfields, and this is on public record. This is because the state of Mandava did not comply with the regulations or the conditions under which it could host an international match. What action did you take as the Minister responsible for sport to alleviate the situation so that it does not get to the disastrous state at which it is now?
Hon. Minister, two days ago you twitted and I quote, ‘good news, it has been agreed that the ownership and operation of National Sports Stadium in Zimbabwe will be transferred to Ministry of Youth, Sport,
Arts and Recreation. We have the experience and passion to use this opportunity for Zimbabwe to become a sporting power house’. The
Ministry of Youth receives funds from the fiscus, the Ministry of Local Government was receiving funds from the fiscus. What is it that you think you have that is going to make you realise getting the sport to becoming a power house? You stated here Hon. Minister that the Sports and Recreation Commission was in charge of Magamba Stadium, Chitungwiza Aquatic Complex and now National Sports Stadium if I heard you correctly. Do you mean that the state of Chitungwiza Aquatic Complex as it is right now is the experience you are celebrating? We want you to answer that.
Finally Madam Speaker, I want you to engage us as
Parliamentarians that, have you considered the option of triple Ps with regards to the running and management of our stadia? Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I asked a question - does
FIFA allow people to steal and the Minister did not answer that. Madam Speaker, we also asked about the issue of our rules. It seems the Hon.
Minister is excited about international affiliation and not respecting the laws of this country. We do not really eat football. I think this country is more interested in the bread and butter issues than football right now. Is her loyalty to the international organisation or to the laws of this country? The SRC is an Act of Parliament. It has certain things that it must do. How does the SRC continue to entertain administrators who have violated the Act? How honestly can we say we have administrators who are in office yet they failed to produce audited reports as per SRC Act and are still in office? Madam Speaker, the Minister must take this opportunity to get a by inn from this House. I was involved in sport. I was the director of rugby at national level. I was the director of cricket at national level. I was the national fitness coach at national level. I was the Davis Cup fitness coach for the black families at national level, I can go on. No one who has a background in sport is running sport today. All the sports people Minister, who have the passion for sport, who are educated to do sport are no longer interested because of the bad administration. My question is, what is the Minister doing to ensure that real sport people administer sport? As long as there is no proper administration in sport, there will be no one who will put money in
sport. The people coming in to sport are stealing money and it seems the Minister seems to be protecting them while they have gone against an Act of Parliament. I think it is important when we speak like this. I have good relations with Minister, I talk to her. We are trying to help her. I am not interested in being a Minister of Sport. I would have liked it when Mugabe was in power then. That is when I wanted to be the Minister of Sport, other than that, with the way the economy is, you will not even get money to do anything. I wish her luck because I do not know where she will get the money to run sport but we are passionate and we must be talking as stakeholders. Rugby, I was there and Cricket I was also there. We try and speak as sports people. What is she doing to engage former sports people to come and discuss sport? She cannot do it alone and she cannot support these thieves.
Minister you are supporting ZIFA thieves. Why are you supporting ZIFA thieves? You are the Minister. You should be cleaning up sport and you are supporting thieves. Why are you supporting thieves who have violated the Act? There is no confidence in sport. No company will put money into sport for as long as you are protecting these thieves. Action must be taken like Hon. Chikwinya said. Why are they in office when they have gone against the Act and so forth? It is my clarion call to the Minister, she has an opportunity to try and rebrand sport. In rebranding sport, it means Hon. Minister, if the people who you are working with were part of the problem and you are still working with them, you have not dealt with the problem. Get those who were part of the problem out and bring in your own people. Let us support you. That is where the problem is. The bureaucracy is too much, we do not have technocrats there. We would like to support you in that initiative. A hunter hunts with his or her own dogs. Which dogs have you brought on which you are hunting with or else you are dealing with the old bureaucrats who only want allowances yet they are not offering anything and sport is suffering at the end of the day. Thank you.
*HON. CHIPATO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to give my support and also air my concern over the people who are fraudulently acquiring resources that should be for the people of Zimbabwe. My question is Minister, what do you intend to do with people like Machakana who took US$747 thousand and deposited it in his account? Minister, this is pure fraud because as we look at it as women, sport is what is assisting us in this nation. For people to take resources earmarked for sport and use it for their own family means is not right. I thank you.
HON. MURAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Thank you very much Hon. Minister for your mouthful Ministerial Statement. My question is, now that all our stadiums have been condemned and we are now forced to go and play soccer in nations which are infested with the coronavirus, what measures have you put in place that our Warriors will not be inffected with the coronavirus and they will not get coronavirus whatever the case might be.
Hon. Members having stood up.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We want to give the Minister the chance to respond. You are the last one Hon. Member.
HON. P. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Minister. She tried her level best under the circumstances. Let me tell you that Madam Speaker, our local authorities right now as I speak have no funds to refurbish our stadia. They are handicapped financially. I would advise the Hon. Minister to try and bring in the corporate world to assist our local authorities to refurbish all our stadia. During the All Africa Games, CAF refurbished most of our stadia in this country and were left at an international level where everybody would want to come and play in this country. Then the current ZIFA opened their accounts. When funds come in, they go and put in private people’s accounts at the expense of the ZIFA account where everybody will account for that money. There was a village which they were supposed to build and they were given a lot of money. They converted that money to their personal use.
Secondly, when ZIFA is failing to run our soccer, our Premier Soccer League is running our soccer very professionally and they have got sponsors. Why do sponsors go to the Premier League? It is because there is accountability and professionalism. At ZIFA, there is no professionalism. They are purely thieves.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask your question Hon.
Member.
HON. P. MOYO: My question Madam Speaker is what are you going to do about the money which was stolen by the ZIFA people? There was the US$700 thousand that the Hon. Member was talking about deposited in someone’s account. Which corporate world Madam Speaker can come and assist an institution like ZIFA? If you go to Zambia, Kalusha Bwala as a former player refurbished all the stadia and he was raising the nation’s flag. If you go to Didier Drogba, he even refused a post at Chelsea to go and refurbish all stadia in Ivory Coast.
We have got our own Benjamin Mwaruwari, Peter Ndlovu et cetera. The Hon. Minister should just call for an indaba with these former players. They will tell her how football is run. These people who are currently in ZIFA – actually ZACC is sleeping on duty. They should have arrested these thieves. They have destroyed this country, they are destroying our football. You will remember football, currently, is the world’s most beautiful game and also is the most creative institution. If you look VAR right now, all the technology is coming in other countries yet Zimbabwe is left in isolation. Madam Speaker, we cannot allow the current ZIFA to continue running our football. The Hon. Minister should dismiss the entire ZIFA. If there is a ban which is coming, let us accept that ban and correct our house. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My first question to the Hon. Minister that require clarity is to find out from her whether she was surprised by the decision of CAF to ban our team from using local stadia? If she was surprised, then may be one would want to know whether as a Ministry you are really hands on with what is suppose to take place within the field of sport or not? The second one is how does she feel having been appointed to superintend over sport and then now instead of the country earning revenue out of the sport through a team that will be visiting the country, the country is now going to lose revenue as it goes to play in a foreign country?
If I got you well that you intend to take into your possession as Government, a number of stadia, we have a history as a country. I will give you an example, in Bulawayo we have the power station which was taken away from the local authority and no compensation was paid to the local people that build up that infrastructure. Are you going to respect property rights since currently those stadia belong to local authorities? If you are going to take possession of them, will we witness another fast track reform this time of stadia?
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Again I will
answer the same way to Hon. T. Mliswa’s question, I will not and cannot respond for FIFA, he should ask them. In terms of...
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam President.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: You are not following the debate and I
cannot be quiet.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, please give
the Minister chance to respond.
HON. T. MLISWA: The Minister cannot use FIFA when she
feels like it, I asked her the reason why ZIFA must be disbanded? It is because they have been stealing money, Machana transferred US$740 000 his account and he is still in office. So, I am saying...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That question was asked.
HON. T. MLISWA: She is saying FIFA does not allow her to interfere. So, I want to know because she cannot say to me arrogantly that I must ask FIFA when she says we cannot interfere in FIFA affairs. So, what if the money is being stolen, there must be some tact and not arrogance of saying no. She wants to refer to FIFA when she see the need to refer to FIFA but I asked a question, does FIFA allow people to steal because US$755 000 was transferred and we are disbanding ZIFA because of that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, please take
your seat.
HON. T. MLISWA: I can see you now want me to go, you want to me chucked out. I do not mind, I can always go home because I came here alone. I am independent so I have no one to cry to, so I am not really worried. These are critical issues that I am bringing...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please allow her to answer.
HON. T. MLISWA: She must not be arrogant in answering to say I must ask FIFA when she answers for FIFA if she feels the need to.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, you are out
of order, please take your seat.
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I appreciate that the Hon. Member has passion for sport and I appreciate that he has a deep understanding of the different organisations. As I said already, I will not answer on behalf of FIFA and anytime I have referred to FIFA is when I have been in direct contact with FIFA. As he pointed out on the SRC, the SRC Act is outdated and does not allow us to protect our athletes, sport or protect the development of sport for today’s world. SRC has been asked to start figuring out a way of how to update the Sport and Recreational Act to ensure that we can protect our sports and our athletes.
In terms of the point that the Hon. Member has raised about audited reports, SRC has called for the quarterly meeting on Saturday.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Haaaa.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Please take your seat.
HON. T. MLISWA: What I wanted to correct the Minister is that
it is not the SRC that brings the Act; it is the Minister who brings the Act to Parliament, not SRC. That is the procedure.
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Speaker. If you allow me, it
is not the Minister that sits and writes the Act, it is up to the Minister to request the SRC board to come up with the new SRC Act that will then be taken to the Ministry, to Cabinet and after going to Cabinet, it will then come to this esteemed House.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: With all due respect to the Hon. Minister, I find it quite disturbing that the Hon. Minister knows that the Act is now archaic, she agrees but she says she will request. We thought that she is the person that is in charge. She does not have to request the SRC to have the Act amended. She has to order the SRC and superintend the whole process not for her to say I will request. If she is requesting and those people say we do not want, what happens? So, who is in charge?
Is it her or the SRC who is in charge of sport – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER: Thank you for that Hon.
Minister please continue.
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Member. Allow me to
reply to both. So I think swimming is harder than this. Not many people would be able to do so. I have only one female who has achieved what I have achieved. Allow me to add to the Hon. Members that there is a thing that I have learned in my many years as sport diplomat and a way in which to work together. We all know who is in charge and when I have given the request to the SRC board to repeal the Act, they will be working on it. So they are working on it. If nobody understands that I am happy to clarify further. As I was saying the SRC has a quarterly report from the National Federation on Saturday. They have been instructed that the National Federation does not hand deliver an audited set of reports, they will be deemed non-compliant and will receive no further funding from Government. I hope that appeases Members of this esteemed House if they are listening.
Hon. Speaker, in terms of responding to the Hon. Member in terms of the US$740 000 that was put into an individual account, I would ask for that Member to bring me any proof from the Portfolio Committee and I would also want to update the House that although the President of ZIFA has changed, the staff is still the same, nobody has changed. They are the ones that manage the day to day business – [HON. T. MLISWA: Say you will look into it. Do not be arrogant. Ministers do not come to Parliament and we feel sorry for them. When they come here they want to show arrogance. We are not here to be shown arrogance, whether white or black. You must understand that when we are here we do oversight. You tell us that you will investigate the issue and I will come and report to this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa you are out of
order! Please take your seat – [HON. T. MLISWA: “Hawauye kuParliament awa,” they are only coming now with arrogance. We must be respected. We want to be respected Madam Speaker. “Hatidi kushorwa pano.” Respect us Madam Speaker. We do not want arrogance. She cannot be arrogant all the time – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members! Order! Hon.
Members, please take your seats. Please allow the Minister to finish!
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Madam Speaker. Allow me to
thank the Hon. Members of this esteemed House for their passion because it allows me to do my job better, so I say thank you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I would also like to say as any Hon.
Member thought that I was being disrespectful, I apologize for that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, my belief is that every single person in this House is here to ensure that we drive this country forward. So, I appreciate the passion.
If you will allow me to get back to answering the questions, maybe to just note that when I requested the proof, if I only have proof then I can do the investigation. We know from my statement right at the beginning that there has been a pledge within ZIFA and we need to deal with that. We will ensure that we will get to the bottom of that. As I
said on Saturday at the National Sports Stadium, national federations have been called for the quarterly meetings. ZIFA has not produced audited accounts. If they have not produced audited accounts by Saturday, they will be non-compliant and they will no longer be able to receive any financial assistance from Government until that is given along with any other national associations.
In terms of the question that an Hon. Member asked with regards to the Coronavirus and the travel of our national teams, I am standing guided by our Health Ministry. Today he made a statement that he does not advise any national teams to travel to countries where there have been confirmed cases. We obviously support that statement because we want to protect our players, but we have advised ZIFA to go back to
CAF to seek their guidance and FIFA’s guidance because we do not want there to be any forms of fines that are placed on Zimbabwe if we do not go and attend a game. We all know that there was the disappointing announcement of Zimbabwe potentially having to play Algeria in South Africa but there have been confirmed cases of Coronavirus. So we are looking into the matter because it is not a safe environment for our players.
I would also like to thank the Hon. Member who brought up the issue of the PSL. The PSL is running very well and we can see that and we can see that they have been part of the conversations around the stadia that are owned by City Council; there needs to be further communication in terms of the City Council engaging the PSL. That is where there can be movement forward in terms of refurbishment of our stadiums. However, those conversations can be led by my Ministry but the City Council do not fall within my mandate so it is not something that I can dictate, but again it is something where Hon. Members can help encourage City Councils to engage with us to create a platform for them.
In terms of the Hon. Members question, if I was surprised by the CAF decision - I rely on my stakeholders in terms of the communication of honesty, this has not been happening and I have been let down numerous times in this regard. Was I surprised by the CAF decision? I was surprised by the CAF decision when I was given all of the information that was in middle of February. I was surprised because the CAF deciding and making that decision could have been averted if ZIFA had responded to CAF’s initial letter from December, on time - they never did. They still to this day, have not responded to that initial communication from CAF. So there are many things that need to be fixed, but I think we can all agree that things are not working well within
ZIFA and that is only part of the problem.
In terms of the property rights, my response to that is again city councils do not fall under my mandate so the stadium, within city councils are not what are being transferred over to me. Property rights come with responsibilities, so the city councils as I just said are responsible for the maintenance of our stadiums but there can be better platforms with private partnership with the PSL teams. If the city councils want help with creating that platform, my office is more than happy to help give them that opportunity to figure out a way forward to maintain our stadiums. I thank you.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
ASPIRATIONS TOWARDS ACHIEVING USD 12 BILLION BY 2023
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO): Thank you Madam Speaker.
I am here to give a statement in response to a question which was raised by Hon. Ndebele on the aspirations towards the achievements of the $12 billion and also the possible implications of EPO’s with respect to that achievement.
Madam Speaker, the 2019 mineral revenue was $3, 2 billion up from $2, 9 million in 2018. The $12 billion milestones for 2023 were set on detailed projections and targets by minerals. The Hon. Members asked for an update and projections and I hereby respond, giving that update and projections by mineral.
Gold output increased in 2018 to 33 tonnes compared to twenty six and half tonnes in 2017. There was however, a decrease to 27, 6 tonnes in 2019. A number of interventions are being put in place to ensure there is an increase in gold deliveries not only 2020 but to achieve the 100 tonnes target by 2023. A detailed statement on gold will be released before the end of April.
Diamond sector performance – diamonds are expected to contribute $1 billion towards the $12 billion target for the mining industry by 2023. A $165 million was realised from the diamond sector in 2019 compared to 98 million in 2018. The following are interventions being put in place to achieve an increase in 2020 and achievement of the $1 billion by 2023.
- ZCDC is earmarked to sustainably increase production;
- In line with the diamond policy Anjin has started production;
- ARUSA which is the largest producer of diamonds in the world in already on the ground evaluating a number of sites to commence production; and
- Government is working on improvements in the marketing framework.
Madam Speaker, P.G.M’s – the platinum industry is expected to contribute $3 billion as part of its contribution towards the $12 billion mining industry by 2023. This contribution is centered on expansion and new production as follows:-
- The three producers being Unkie, Zimplats and Mimosa are all undertaking expansion and optimisation projects.
- Great Dyke investments have started opening a mining area and it is scheduled to produce its first concentrate in 2021.
- Carol Resources are ready to commence project work on the 1st portal having undertaken extensive evaluation work.
- Bravura is on the ground undertaking evaluation work.
- Discussions with Todal are advanced for them to get into project phase; actually they had a board meeting sometime this week – that is on the PGM sector.
Madam Speaker, I now turn to the chrome sector. The chrome, nickel and steel sector is earmarked to achieve $1 billion by 2023. This achievement will largely be through increased falcon production from 369 000 tonnes of ferro chrome in 2018 to 1, 1 million tonnes in 2023. Various expansion projects are underway
by ZIMASCO, ZIMALLOYS, JINAN and AFROSHEEN and a
few other players.
Since launch of the $12 billion milestones, three new furnaces have been completed, operational and ready for official commissioning. Government has now released additional mining ground to an additional ore to be generated to feed the smelters.
The next sector is on coal. Coal and hydro carbons is targeted to contribute $I billion towards the $12 billion target by 2023. This achievement is underpinned by two main initiatives:-
- Increase in coke production, from 300 000 tones in 2018 to 2,1 million tonnes in 2023.
- Increase in thermal coal production for electricity generation.
Massive success has been achieved in this sub-sector as follows;
- A new coke oven battery was commissioned late last year;
- Three new mines will be opened this year; and
- Three new coke ovens are under construction.
The next sub-sector is lithium. The milestone for lithium is $500 million by 2023. Bikita Minerals is in steady production whilst project work at Kamativi and Arcadia lithium is going quite well.
A US$1, 5 million target was set for other minerals. This will be achieved through a number of initiatives on various minerals but specifically, there will be a launch in the next two months of an initiative in granite and gemstones.
I now turn to EPOs Madam Speaker. The EPO system has been characterised by non-processing of EPOs for a number of years which has reduced the ground available for pegging. A new mining affairs board was appointed and has been directed to review and process all
EPO applications with the status as follows;
- There are 12 EPOs which are due for renewable and which will be subject to the holders satisfying the original conditions of grant.
- There are 24 applications which have been processed right now Madam Speaker, and the indications are that there will be significant ground for them to be released as a number of them have not been approved.
- Thirty applications were gazetted for objections on 11th October,
2019 and now being finalised
- There are 30 applications which have already been rejected by the mining affairs body and the respective ground will be freed by mid of April. There are three new EPO applications which have been received since 1st January, 2020 but which have not been processed.
In all, the objective is that by end of June, the Mining Affairs Board will be up-to-date with the screening and processing of applications. Significant ground will have been processed. Government recognises that the future of the mining industry is based on discovery of new minerals, more so since the country is under explored and more so using modern techniques.
Government also recognises that delays over the years in the processing of EPO applications have resulted in reduced areas being available for pegging. It is in this realisation that Government undertakes to clear all its EPO applications by June, 2020. I thank you
HON. NDEBELE: Let me thank the Minister for such a lucid statement. It has been a while since we got an all encompassing and nonevasive statement from a Minister. It is quite refreshing. I am happy that the Minister is - is going to be releasing a lot of land. My question to the Minister is this land that has been under EPOs going to be released to our young men and women in the localities of Maphisa, Matopo,
Gwanda, Insiza and Shurugwi as you come up towards the Great Dyke? Time is of the essence here Hon. Minister; our young people are butchering each other out there using machetes for want of mining land.
In my respective regard, I think June is rather too far. Is there no way the Minister can together with this House, work out modalities to tinker with the law in the meantime to allow our people to be able to peg in these EPOs?
Is the Minister also aware that the same people that are holding land under EPOs for speculative purposes are fleecing our poor youths out there? If the Minister visits the mining areas, he will be told of sad stories wherein our people are charged 60% of whatever they get particularly gold underground. They have to pay speculators 60% of whatever they earn and they end up with absolutely nothing to channel towards tooling and retooling. They use elementary tools and they work so hard but for so little Hon. Minister.
I heard you say there are a number of applications that are before the Mining Board. For radical purposes Hon. Minister, we have land before that our small scale miners are even delivering more gold than the big players. Is it not possible for the Mining Affairs Board to hold forever, in other words to bar considering the applications that are before it? I have heard of your beautiful projections around the growth of gold but yesterday we learnt from the Minister of Finance that he is removing or taking away incentives from the gold miners. Is this not going to affect your projections Hon. Minister?
Last but not least Madam Speaker, we have land for the return of the Chinese. How did the Minister arrive at getting the Chinese back on to the diamond fields? Does this include the Russians that we removed during the last dispensation? You mentioned big players in the international field such as Arusha, but how are these mining tenders floated Hon. Minister? We only read about them in the newspapers. Is it possible for us in the spirit of empowerment to reach out to our own Zimbabwe and diaspora and urge them to organise themselves into mining entities that can enjoy our gas in Lupane and oil in Muzarabani.
Finally Hon. Minister, why are companies like GDI not complying with indigenisation laws? I thank you Hon. Minister.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Minister for releasing ground to the indigenous people but I also wanted to check with the Minister, if he can inform the House on progress on the cadastral system. If there are any challenges, what can we do as Parliament to assist him to make sure that the cadastral system progresses?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: My request for clarification to the attention of the Hon. Minister is simple and straightforward. Hon. Minister, there are allegations to the effect that this challenge we are having countrywide with regard to the machete gangs is more or less coordinated with connections of senior people in the Ministry of Mines. At most, officers at provincial levels who direct these machete gangs to be involved in mining and they work as a syndicate on a certain allocation given to them and then the allocation remains with the syndicates. What is your response to those kinds of allegations? What is it that you are doing to remedy such a crisis?
The other thing Hon. Minister is - what is your comment with regards to the challenge of the machete gangs whereby we have most of these mines like Ashanti Mine, for a record Ashanti Mine was taken from one businessman who has been involved in the mining at Ashanti and that same mine was given to another person who happens to be very influential in the Government systems, what does that mean?
Last but not least, it is with regard to the situation in Mazowe. As we speak today, there are allegations that these machete gangs who are so much into mining, they are more like artisanal miners. Most of their gold is not taken to Fidelity but it is being sold to foreign countries, mostly South Africa. The argument to that effect is that it has to do with the pricing and the level of payment which is being done by RBZ which is not very conducive to those miners to make more money. What is your comment?
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would
like to firstly acknowledge the Minister for a well articulated presentation on what is happening in the mining sector which together with agriculture and tourism are the pillars of our economic turnaround. Given the long gestation period of most mineral and mining activities, is it possible for you through your Ministry to give us a regular proactive feedback programme so that the generality of the population has a good feel of what is happening in your Ministry because I believe firmly that with your presentation, definitely Vision 2030 is on the line. Thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Since
the Hon. Minister has given his Ministerial Statement, we are happy about what he has said and we have appreciated. My question is that, if we want to apply for mining licences as women, we encounter difficulties. We come from communal lands and travel long distances to go and register. Would it not be better for you to allow licencing to be done at district level and that you open offices in those districts so that we can easily access them since we do not have sufficient resources to travel far away from the provinces?
We want you to clarify on the issue of how licencing is being done because a lot of women are failing to get licenced, they are encountering difficulties. May you explain on that issue? I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My points of
clarification are as follows; firstly Hon. Minister, are you able to furnish Parliament with the list of the current applicants of the EPOs? Secondly, huge projects have been embarked on by the Government in Muzarabani, Lupane with Lupane gas and of late with the Russians, that is the Roval, I did not quite hear you clearly where we saw you on television officially opening that platinum mine.
In line with Section 315 (2) (c) of our Constitution which states that an Act of Parliament must provide for the negotiation and performance of the following contracts and (c) is specific on concession of minerals and other rights. What is your take with regards to the coming Mines and Minerals Bills for it to capture that principle so that at least Parliament is involved in the negotiation of concessions of minerals and other lines to meet with the provisions of Section 315 (2) (c). We want to hear your take since the Mines and Minerals Bill is under drafting by your Ministry.
The other issue is that under chrome, you speak of smelters being built but as a Member of Parliament from Mbizo in Kwekwe, I see that one of the biggest players Potnex are currently closed and there are about a month now because they have been having problems. Why are they closed? Are there any prospects that they are going to open and by when?
The other issue under gold is that it is a fact and it has been agreed to by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that we are having gold leakages because of the retention regime where the black market is paying 100% of gold sold to the black market and Government is paying 45 to 50%. Is it Government intention to continue with the retention regime of 45 to 55%? What impact does it have on the gold retentions to Government since we are seeing that in 2018 when we were currently under the US dollar regime, our gold production was at 33 tonnes and in 2019, especially soon after the introduction of the retention scheme, our gold productions fell. What is the Ministry going to do then?
Lastly Hon. Speaker, is the Minister comfortable? He speaks of 30 rejections and I presume that these rejections, he says that the areas that have been rejected are going to be opened up by June. Are you comfortable in furnishing Parliament with the areas that are going to be liberalised for the purposes of access by the generality of Zimbabwe which have currently been held under EPOs?
HON. MADHUKU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
Firstly, is it possible for the Ministry to come up with guidelines or laws setting benchmarks for corporate social responsibility because we noticed that so many mining companies; some are giving a lot and others are not doing anything to the locals. So if you can come up with some benchmarks.
Secondly, I also plead with the Minister, if it is possible – because you have heard cases whereby locals are displaced by mining conglomerates but you find that there is sort of reneging on what they will have promised to offer to those who have been displaced. Is it possible that these companies first of all meet their obligations before people are displaced?
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The first issue is about the chrome claims. What concessions if any, has Government has recouped from ZIMASCO in order that it can create space to the locals for extraction of chrome and the amount of claims that it has also recouped from ZimPlats for the enhancement of platinum extraction and the amount of concessions that Government has taken over for the extraction of coal for Hwange Colliery in order to capacitate their production in terms of power production?
Madam Speaker, having heard the Statement from the Minister of Finance yesterday, I ask that he clarifies exactly like Hon. Chikwinya has requested, the amount of incentive that is now going to be given taking it over from the middleman who is the buyer to the producer; to see if it is in sync with his assertion that he is going to ramp up production, to remove incentive from the middleman who is the buyer to the primary producer. Also the issue of the current operation that is going on Chikorokoza Chapera Operation, where there is police to remove artisanal miners from every place which they are not licenced to mine at. How is that going to impact on the annual production that is spoken about from 20, 19, 27, 30 tonnes, 32 tonnes in the last year? How is the Chikorokoza Chapera going to impact on the gross annual production of gold? Thank you Madam President.
HON. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My clarification is on the asbestos issue. I did not hear the Minister including asbestos. Perhaps it is included on other minerals which are expected to contribute about US$1.5 million by 2023. I wanted to find out that we know that Turnall is still using asbestos fibre as a raw material and most of it is at the moment being imported from Brazil. Most of the time we are talking about import substitution. This is one of the minerals which are used in manufacturing by Turnall. Deposits are readily available in Masvingo, Mashava and other areas.
My second issue of clarity that I am requesting is on the issue of exploration of gas and oil particularly in the Muzarabani area. I am sure last year there was a lot of Press coverage on the oil aspect and gas that was being explored by an Austrian company. I think this is also of national importance because the import bill on fuel and other oil products is high. Thank you.
*HON. MLAMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I heard the issue about diamonds. I come from Manicaland and you have not told us what Marange Diamond is producing and giving us as a country.
From the time it was said to have been closed, is anything coming from
Marange Diamond? Also do you have plans to construct a road from
Mutare to Nyanyadzi using the proceeds that you are getting from Mutare? I thank you.
*HON. MADZIVA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What is
Government policy as regards people who come to prospect in other people’s fields without getting consent and those that are putting traps?
Our livestock is getting caught in those traps. I thank you.
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I wanted to
find out about the billions that the Minister has mentioned that will be raised by 2023. The $1 billion in gold, $3 billion in diamond and the other billion he has mentioned. How much revenue is being realised from those minerals currently? The figures you have quoted, are they in RTGS or US dollar denomination?
My second question Madam Speaker is about platinum. When are we going to have a platinum processing plant in Zimbabwe because our platinum is being processed outside Zimbabwe? Thank you.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Minister, I heard you saying there is a bigger plan to enable this country to prosper from the minerals that we have. There are issues that are being said in the newspapers that when we mine minerals such as platinum, it also has some base minerals that are not declared such as gold, silver and palladium. Where are these minerals declared? How are we getting this money and where is this money going to or we just think of platinum only when the people that are into platinum mining are doing it for the benefit of getting money out of the base metals. I thank you.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Madam speaker. The Hon.
Minister has spoken about the opening up of new mines, well and good. What he has not addressed is the closure of existing mines. You make new friends but you must keep the old ones. It does not appear like we are keeping the old ones. So, my question relates to mines that have ceased to operate and that the Minister has paid lip service to. Hon. Minister, we have quite a few dysfunctional mines with specific reference to where I come from Mutasa South, there is Red Wing Mine under Metalion Gold that has ceased to operate. Workers have been made redundant and nobody seemed to care. The compounds there are now dysfunctional and unserviced and it is a real cause for concern.
Hon. Minister, what we see happening now at those mines for example is that there is some kind of allocation of sub- claims if I may call them that and these claims are being given people who are coming from outside the area and there is no consideration for giving the claims to the workers who have been made redundant so that they can also mine and make a living. It does not look like there is any care for the workers who have been made redundant in terms of allocating the claims or having them take over the mines that have ceased to operate. My question is, is there any consideration for a right of first refusal of the claims or takeover of the mines by workers who have been made redundant by the closure through the closure of these mines?
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO): Thank you very much
Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Members for very detailed questions which I will go through. The first question was from Hon. Ndebele and the first question was on EPOs, the land being released and he also made reference that June is too far. Just to further clarify, I indicated that by June. Already, like I indicated in my statement, there are some EPOs which have been rejected and which I said that the land will be freed up by mid – April. Progressively as the mining affairs board processes all these EPOs, the intention is that all the EPOs we have in the system will be processed by June but we are not waiting for June. That is being done progressively as we go on.
There is a question on the fleecing of poor people who are charged 60% of whatever they earn. Madam Speaker, we have a situation where we have people who own mining titles. People who own mining titles; what some have resorted to is when we started talking of the ‘use it or lose it principle’, they have resorted to tributing out some of the land of the title they have so that when we then write to them and say you are not utilising the land they will say no, we are utilising it because they then make reference to people who have been given the tributes.
In some cases, whilst we are aware that some of them, the arrangements are not fair to the people who are given the tributes; the Mines and Minerals Act is very specific. It specifies a tribute arrangement which in the absence of that, any other tribute arrangement should be approved by the Mining Affairs Board but however, he has a point Hon. Ndebele and it is a point which has come to the attention of the Ministry and it is something which is under discussion to see how we can react to that. It is a very valid point where a number of people who own mining title to circumvent the ‘use it or lose principle’now go and give tributes and those tributes are not freed. So Hon. Ndebele, it is a very valid point.
The other point which was raised by Hon Ndebele is the incentives from gold miners and how this will affect the achievement of the target. I will not be able to eloquently follow through the paper which was delivered by my colleague. The whole essence of the paper and the policy is that if we look at the revenue stream as before the new policy and we look at the revenue stream after the new policy; they intended that there is no change in the revenue stream, hence this statement, if I am not wrong, he meant to say with time, the gold incentives will be taken away by ensuring that the overall revenue stream to the miners is not affected.
There is another question which was also made by Hon. Ndebele on the return to the Chinese, does this include the Russians and he made reference to the reaching out of Zimbabweans to participate in the diamond sector. Madam Speaker, Cabinet came up with a diamond policy which regulates the operation of the diamond industry. In terms of that policy, there are four companies which were given permission to operate in the diamond sector; the first being ZCDC, second is Murowa Diamonds, third is Alrosa and fourth being Anjin. It was further stated in terms of the diamond policy that all other players can come and operate in the diamond sector working together with ZCDC, alternatively they can go and work together with the other three diamond
entities.
The last comment which was made by Hon. Ndebele was that GDI
are not complying with the indegenisation laws. I think we differ a bit in the sense that what happened is there was initial change in indegenisation laws which left out diamonds and platinum. Subsequent to that, there were further changes, so there I think we differ a bit.
The next question was from Hon. Mudarikwa. He made a very important point on the cadastral system. Government realising the importance of the cadastral system has also rood in the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, some of the universities, their information technology experts, to assist the ministry to fast track the cadastral system. The whole idea is that by next year we should have the cadastral system operating.
There was a question by Hon. Mutseyami? The first comment was clarification on allegations to the effect that the machete gangs are coordinated with senior people or officers at provincial level who operates as syndicates. I must say Hon. Member, it is the first time I am hearing of that, I think if that information is available, it should certainly be made to law enforcement agencies. I am not aware of that. The second question was the comment on the change of ownership of Ashant from one person to another. I presume you refer to Freda Rebeca. One of the things Hon Madam Speaker in terms of our existing laws which need to be reviewed is that where you have a mining entity or when there is a change in the ownership of a mining entity, there is no need for Government approval. It is investor to investor so Government is not involved. If anyone who owns company x,y,z makes a sale, it is investor to investor. The question may be whether that should be revised or changed – but that is the law as it stands.
The next question was from Hon. Musikavanhu on the long gestation period. I think you made a very important recommendation to say should we give regular feedback. Madam Speaker, I am more than happy to say every second month to come and give feedback to this august House on the $12 billion.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. I want to really commend the way the Minister tackles issues. He answers professionally and not arrogantly and I wish other Ministers to learn from him. To me, it is amazing. He is thorough - even the questions which one is asking, he has them to point. I hope other Ministers can just learn from that because that is very important. He is able to say if I have to do it, I must investigate. Those are the Ministers we want, though Hon. Chitando at times you do not come to Parliament.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa.
Hon. Minister, you can proceed.
HON. CHITANDO: Thank you very much Hon. Mliswa for the comment. I think to answer to the Hon. Member, we can come up with a routine to give regular updates to this august House. There was a question raised by Hon. P. Moyo. It was the issue of decentralizing Ministry offices and the issue that most women are failing. Decentralisation is actually happening. This year we are opening an office in Hwange, Zvishavane and Gokwe. Right now as we speak, the process is under way, the positions have been approved and the recruitment is taking place. We will then roll out to other centres, but it is a very valid point.
The second question relates to the issue of women empowerment. There are two initiatives Madam Speaker. The first initiative is on the part of Government. The second initiative is on the women leadership in the mining industry. We have the Zimbabwe Miners Federation. The
Zimbabwe Miners Federation is a federation of many different associations. One of the associations which is part of the federation is women in mining.
It is our wish as Government to see closer working relationship doing Zimbabwe Women in Mining and the Zimbabwe Miners Federation. One of the issues which we have raised Madam Speaker is that every other Monday, the Ministry in the afternoon is ready and has officers ready to meet the Zimbabwe Miners Federation and the
Chamber of Mines. If there are any issues, it is a question of saying this Monday we are coming and we are ready to meet and see how we can make women empowerment in mining industry easier.
Madam Speaker, there were questions by Hon. Chikwinya. You
asked that we furnish the list of applicants. I would give a counter suggestion. If you allow us to finish processing the applications, within the next three weeks, we will have what has been approved and what has been rejected. At the moment, we can give you applications who are applicants but are being notified of not being approved and it may not be that fair and accurate.
The second question which was raised by Hon. Chikwinya, he refers to projects in Muzarabani and Section 315 of the Constitution. I must admit my ignorance. I really do not quite know the contents of Section 315, but it is something which he can go and discuss with lawyers in the Ministry and I can come and enlighten the House. I would not want to claim what I do not know. The next question is that chrome smelters Portnex are closed and there are two questions. Why are they closed? Will they open and by when? Madam Speaker, of all the minerals we have, the biggest challenge we have is with chrome, because the price fluctuates quite a lot. All minerals prices fluctuate on a daily basis but chrome goes to extremes. One time it is US90 cents per pound and the next time like at the moment, in some cases prices have gone down to US55 cents per pound. With chrome, you then find that some operators are viable in March when the price is US90 cents. The price falls to US60 cents, they are not viable and they shut down. With the fluctuation in the price of chrome, then you find that there is a lot of stop start operations in the chrome business.
The next point raised by Hon. Chikwinya is on gold leakages, which, according to his question is because of retention and he says is it Government intention to continue with retention. Madam Speaker, I would not comment on retention issues, but what I said in my statement is that we are coming with enablers to increase gold production for 2020 and achieve the 100 tonne target. That is a policy discussion already which I cannot indicate at this stage what is contained in it.
Hon. Madhuku said is it possible on guidelines setting benchmarks for CSR. Some are giving and some are not giving. It is a pertinent point which I think we need to reflect as Government. His other point was there are locals who are displaced by mining conglomerates who renege on what they would have promised. Madam Speaker, that would be illegal and steps should be taken. If there are any such cases, they should be brought to the Ministry. What happens is before any operator is allowed to resume mining operation, you submit an EIA, in that EIA you indicate how many families are going to be displaced, how they are going to be relocated and what is going to be their fate. If anyone puts in the EIA that they are going to do a,b,c,d and they do not do it, it is illegal. If there are any such cases they should be brought to the Ministry of Mines or other relevant authorities like EMA and action has to be taken. It is clearly an illegal issue.
There is a question which was raised by Hon. Nduna on chrome and platinum concessions. I did not quite understand the question but I can speak on that question. They were ZIMASCO ceded claims. The claims were issued out in 2016 – 2017 and the Zimbabwe Alloy ceded claims have been issued out to smelters in accordance to their production plans. There is the question on the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. He asks whether it is in sync with the assertain that it will ramp up production. I think it is more or less the same answer Madam Speaker which I have given to Hon. Chikwinya. The platinum and the coal, to my knowledge there is no coal concession which was given back to Government. On the platinum, there are coal concessions which we issued out; one to Carol Resources and the other one to Bravura but on coal there is no concession which was given back to Government.
Madam Speaker the ‘use it, or lose it’ principle applies to all minerals, including coal. If there are any coal concessions which are going to be given back to Government, there will be in terms of the ‘use it or lose it’ principle. Moreso, in terms of coal, coal concessions are governed by Part 19 of the Mines and Minerals Act. There are specific deliverables on the basis of which those special grants are given, and if not applied to, they will be repossessed.
The next question was from Hon. Nyoni on clarification on asbestos whether it is included. It is definitely included in the $1, 5 billion. There was a further comment made by Hon. Nyoni about Turnal importing fibre from Brazil. I must say the information which Hon. Nyoni has does not quite tally with mine, because the information I have is that as of January this year, all the fibre used by Turnal is all produced locally. The information I have - that was in January, was that there was now surplus for export. I would need to verify those facts and get back to Hon. Nyoni but from my knowledge and from what I learnt that was as of January, that Turnal was now getting all its raw materials locally.
The other point which was made by Hon. Nyoni related to the
Muzarabani project status and that it is a project of national importance. Yes, it is a project of national importance and that project is going ahead. At the moment, I could inform the House that as we speak now, there are negotiations of a production sharing agreement between Invictus and Government. An inter-governmental team has been set up which is already in negotiations with Invictus on a production sharing agreement. Generally, oil world wide works on production sharing and at the moment the Government is negotiating on production sharing agreements. About two meetings have been held so far to discuss the production sharing agreements.
The other question was on the diamonds and the CSR. I think the
Hon. Members’ question probably will be covered by what I said earlier on but you may have to re-look on the CSR on how we can approach
that.
The other question was asked by Hon. Madziva on mining without the authority of the land owner. Madam Speaker, no miner is allowed to go and mine without the authority of the land owner. A case like that causes tension so it is important that the proper procedures of the Mines and Minerals Act are followed.
Hon. Nyamudeza asked how much the revenues are at the moment and whether they are in USD or not. He also made a question on the platinum processing plant. The projections like I indicated in my statement was $2,9 billion in 2018, $3,2 billion in 2019 and slowly ramping up to $2 billion. That ramping up is not an event, it is a process, like I indicated some of the smelters are being commissioned, some of the coke works are being commissioned. So that ramp up will happen slowly in USD until we get the $12 billion.
The platinum processing plant - the Platinum Producers Association which is an association covering all the platinum mines have come up with firm proposals on the establishment of a base metal refinery and a precious metal refinery. I could safely say by 2027, Zimbabwe will have base and precious metal refinery.
One of the incidents I can probably just explain is that in terms of the base and precious metal refinery, the whole idea and suggestions on the Platinum Producers Association is to have the base metal refinery would be earning around 2024/25 followed by a precious metal refinery.
Hon. Togarepi asked on platinum that are there other minerals which are mined. The platinum group metals have got eight minerals which are the first four precious minerals which are platinum, palladium, gold, rhodium and then the base metals, the copper and so forth. Now, all the minerals are paid for. What happens is that before any platinum concentrate goes out of the country, three samples are taken: one sample is taken and assayed here to determine how much is sent out. The second sample is kept by an umpire. When the material gets for processing at the refinery, they take a sample again. If the sample does not tally with what would have been taken here, then it will not be processed. So there is a procedure to follow before export and on the receipt there. The invoice does not say platinum - it says platinum, palladium, copper, cobalt: mineral by mineral. So all the minerals are paid for.
The last question was asked by Hon. Tsunga who makes mention of new mines but there is no talk of what is happening to old mines. He also refers to a sad case of Redwing Mine. Hon. Tsunga makes reference to the allocation of sub-claims at Redwing Mine. Mines like these and those in a similar category are the typical example which
Government has moved and is moving to apply the ‘use it or lose it’ principle. Without being very specific, that will be dealt with in terms of the provisions of the law.
In terms of the sub claims being done from Redwing Mine, I must accept that I am not aware of it but my Ministry will look into it. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Understandably, the questions were quite many but the Minister left out my request for him to publish the list of the released EPO’s, the 30 which have been disallowed.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is worth commending that
the Minister tried to answer most of the questions and responding to each and every member. I think that is worth commending, thank you very much Hon. Minister.
HON. A. NDEBELE: Hon. Minister, I had asked a question on
how you float tenders for oil, for instance the Lupane gas. I think that was also left out. There is also the question of asbestos on SMM Hon.
Minister. I just want to check yet again the ownership of SMM mines.
In the 2018 Budget Statement, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development listed SMM mines under ZMDC assets. If you may apprise this House on the process of how a company or a mining entity under reconstruction comes out of administration. I thank you.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker.
Although I had several questions, I will try to come up with one useful one so that we have progress. Hon. Minister, for 2020 you are targeting a gold production figure of 100 tons. Are you going to achieve that target because the majority of the gold producers were artisanal small miners. They did not have licences. We had asked that they be allowed to use concessions belonging to either whites or blacks but they are no longer in operation because the mines are disused. Where are we going to raise this gold from? Even the ones that we were given an incentive of $10 to $12 in the form of support for Fidelity gold buyers so that they would have a lot of gold and bring it into this system, buyers were buying the gold from small scale artisanal miners. They are no longer allowed to be found in possession of gold. If they are to be found in possession of gold they are going to be jailed. I do not believe that you are going to reach your target. That is the question that I wanted to pose.
*HON. PETER MOYO: Thank you Madam Chair. There are
mines that closed such as Shabani/Mashava mine. We heard that the people who were living in those mines were now being ordered to leave. Where are they supposed to go? I think there is need to see how they are going to be resettled because that is how they get their living. There is also the issue of the $15 billion that was very topical during the time of President Mugabe. I am aware that you were not a Minister, but have you carried out investigations to find out where the $15 billion went to?
There are Chinese who are digging all over and are not covering the excavations that they are making. They also do not respect our rights. They are excavating the graves of our grandfathers and they do not respect the spirits that bring rains.
I know at one time you were at Mimosa and you constructed a very good ground in Shabanie. That was a very good thing. What are you doing to assist with the monies that you have? Can you not come up with two grounds that you can give to the country because our grounds need to be looked into?
HON. CHITANDO: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. The first question which I had overlooked was from Hon. Chikwinya on publishing EPOs which would have been rejected. There is absolutely no problem with that. I will put a proviso that will look at what the procedures are in the Act. If the procedures allow that they be published we will definitely do that.
The question by Hon. Ndebele was on the floating of tenders for oil and gas. The provisions of the Mines and Minerals Act refer to oil and gas as an energy mineral. In terms of that provision anyone who wants to apply for an oil and gas concession, there is no provision for a tender system but a provision for making an application in terms of the Act. I confuse them between Part 19 and 20 but in terms of that Act which governs energy mineral, that Act specifies that you go to the Geological Department. If the area is clear you make your application which goes to the Mining Affairs Board and then there is a process that is outlined. So, there is no provision for tender in terms of the existing Mines and Minerals Act. There is some debate internally as to whether that should be changed or not.
Then the question by Hon. Ndebele was on the ownership of SMM. I can confirm that SMM is under the stable of ZMDC. He also wanted to know the provisions of reconstruction of a company like SMM coming out of reconstruction. I must admit that one of the discussions we have started having with the administrator of SMM is to have a road map of SMM coming out of reconstruction. So I can confirm that there are discussions or thinking along those lines.
The other question was from Hon. Matambanadzo on the 100 tons target and the effects on artisanal miners. The projected 100 tons will be from two sources, a mix of large scale mining and artisanal mining. In terms of the large scale mining, at the moment the biggest mine which we have in the country produces just above two tons. In terms of our 2023 projections, we will have at least three mines which will be producing above four tons. We will also have a number of mines producing above two tons because the moment the number of mines we will have producing above two tons, I think they will probably be about two or so. However, in terms of 2023, with the rump-up which is happening in terms of large scale mining we will have a number of mines producing above two tons. We will also have at least three mines above four tons. So we have an increase in terms of the large scale miners. At the same time, Government is working on a number of initiatives to ensure that there is continued increase or flow of gold from artisanal mining through the roll out of gold centres. At the moment, there are five gold centres which will be rolled out by June and there will be another 15 gold centres to be rolled out by the end of the year.
The whole essence of the gold centres is that they will go in areas where they will help promote the flow of ores from artisanal mining, who will also go through a normal hammer mill process to process the free gold but also through a CIP process to extract the gold ignites metallurgical process. So you find that the small scale miners will actually get more revenue once all those gold centres are processed.
There is a question from Hon. Moyo on the Shabani and Shabani Mine Houses. Hon. Moyo, it is a very pertinent question that you mentioned. I can tell you that in January, myself and a colleague Minister held meetings with worker representatives of Shabani Mine and their lawyers. We came up with a framework which is being implemented to ensure that the interests of the former Shabani Mine workers are taken into account. So far, I have not had any reports in terms of deviation from the framework which we are abdicated upon.
Madam Speaker, there is a question of the $15 billion which Hon.
Moyo says where was it. It is a pertinent question but it is an issue which was moved to the Auditor General’s Department. So it is now in another department Madam Speaker. There is also an issue on Chinese operators and on observing the environment. The way we look at it from the Ministry is, we do not look at whether the investor is from which country but we would want to see compliance with the law.
The Ministry of Mines and the Ministry of Environment have over the last six weeks been liaising on a framework to ensure zero tolerance to non-compliance with the environment and we have a position which is being taken to Government and which the Minister of Environment will certainly be announcing in due course. So that is being taken care of and it is a genuine concern. The last question on the ground, I think it is covered on my comment on CSR. I thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Members for
the points of clarification which you raised which they were quite insightful. I am sure we will be quite on track. However Hon. Members, in future may we kindly stick to the ministerial statement? I understand today the reason why we were speaking is because we were checking on the performance of the $12 billion. That is why we had to ask questions which were not in line with the ministerial statement. In future, it is good for us to be able to stick to questions in line with the ministerial statement that will be given. However, this brings to the end of the ministerial statement on exclusive prospecting orders and also the performance of the $12 billion revenue in line with the mining industry.
Thank you.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. K.
PARADZA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday, 17th March, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 12th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I can see only three
Ministers in the House; Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon.
Musabayana, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Hon. Prof. Murwira and the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Madiro. May be others are on their way because at the moment I have not yet received the list of apologies.
I am being informed that on the list of apologies there is Hon. Air
Marshal (Rtd) P. Shiri, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural
Resettlement, Hon. F. Chasi, Minister of Energy and Power
Development, Hon. V. P. Haritatos, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement, Hon. D. Karoro, Deputy Minister of Lands Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: On a point of order Madam President. We have been having so many issues related to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Most of the Ministers, including the Leader of Government Business are not competent to answer those issues. I think the country currently is under severe economic problems and we need answers to tell our constituents. Therefore, we need the Minister to come and address this House on the economic situation in the country. We know he is busy but we need answers to the outstanding questions. Thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think your point of
order is very important. The Leader of the House is not here and those questions where the particular Ministers for those Ministries are not here, it is going to be very difficult. Also with us is the Deputy Minister of Information, Communication Technology and Courier Services, Hon.
Phuti.
I am advised that one of our clerks has gone into the National Assembly to check whether there are other Ministers. We now also have the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. Mudyiwa.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. Minister, any time after 1900 hours, especially along Harare Gardens, it is no longer safe to pass through, especially when you are alone because of the street kids.
Kwame Nkrumah and Julius Nyerere are also the same. What is the
Government’s plan to remove the street kids who are all over the town, especially at night because they are becoming a nuisance to the ordinary people?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. MATHEMA): Thank you Madam President.
With due respect, the important question, the Hon. Senator raised touches on our sister Ministry in terms of street kids. However, in terms of safety, it is the mandate of the Ministry of Home Affairs to secure and to make sure that all citizens go about their lives in security and where there are hotspots, like she has mentioned, the command arm will take care of that to make sure that people are safe. Thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Minister. Are the street kids becoming violent? Is there any problem or it is just seeing them?
HON. SEN. NCUBE: They are violent and they can even take food away from you. So it is no longer safe. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: So I think may be the
Minister did not hear the part that the street kids are becoming violent so that they can rectify the issue.
HON. MADIRO: Thank you very much Madam President. I
understood it but it was the removal aspect which we are not competent to respond to. However, as far as the violent aspect is concerned we take note and will hand it over to the responsible authorities.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you. In order
for us to have peace, it takes you to talk to your colleagues so that the place becomes peaceful.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question goes to the Leader of the
House since the Finance Minister is not here. I am sure you have already heard about the complaint that things are getting out of hand out there. So we need answers from the Finance Minister. Things are not well out there. Obviously the policy that the Finance Minister has introduced seems to have back-fired. People are suffering and the rates this morning had gone up to more than RTGs$40 to US$1. Now people cannot afford anything. What is the Finance Minister really doing? People are panicking and lost for words. Surely, the Finance Minister should be here. I know that you sit in Cabinet. Please help us because things are not well.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon Senator for the concern which is well noted. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development gave a Ministerial Statement yesterday in the National Assembly and he is prepared to come and give the statement here as well and clarify any issues that need to be clarified. I believe the issues that the Hon. Senator raised need a comprehensive statement and a session where MPs can interrogate issues pertaining to the economy and policies that he has put in place rather than through this question and answer session where he is represented. With your indulgence, I will check on him so that he can come and present as he did yesterday in the National Assembly.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Supplementary Madam President. I am now worried, if the Hon Minister of Finance and Economic
Development gave a ministerial statement yesterday in the National Assembly, is that why we woke up to see sky rocketing rates? If he gave that statement and it did not help reduce the rates, what does it mean for the Minister?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I was going to ask the
Leader of the House to remind the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that we have two Houses in this Parliament. As he gave his statement yesterday, he should have known that he was supposed to the same statement to this House. So please can you talk to the Minister to do his work.
HON. SEN. DUBE: My question is directed to the Leader of the
House in the absence of the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Do teachers still have vacation leave because I am made to understand they do not have vacation leave days?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. Our teachers have vacation leave. My understanding is that it has been structured in a different manner from the rest of the civil service. They also have school calendars whereby they will have some time off from work. So if she has specific concerns about specific teachers who are unable to go on vacational leave on time, then she can put that in writing. Indeed, they do have vacation leave which is different from ours. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think the Hon.
Member should put that question in writing.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. Let me start by applauding the Minister for trying to avail loans for Higher and Tertiary institutions. Is the Minister aware that at the moment, most of those loans are not accessible because there is only one bank disbursing those loans? If you do not have a parent, guardian or guarantor with a salary going into a CBZ account then you do not qualify. As a result of that, many students are failing to get the loans because they need to have a salary from the guarantor which goes into CBZ. Why is it that it is only that bank which is given that money to disburse? Is he aware that it is defeating the purpose of those loans that we have been advocating for all these years because we wanted it to go to the most disadvantaged? I thank you Madam President.
THE HON. MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I wish to thank Hon.
Senator Mavetera for the very useful question which enables us to bring clarity on the issue. We have got two types of loans being disbursed through banks. The first loan is the commercial bank loan that goes through POSB, ZB, CBZ, Get bucks and Eduloan, I think they are about six. Thos loans is a facility through RBZ where a certain amount has been set aside for the banks to use. We have been promoting this a lot since 2018 until we hit a snag, which I am going to explain. When we were promoting this loan we then discovered the snag in it which is that people require payslips. Therefore it was excluding those students whose guardians might not have pay slips. That was starting from last year specifically on 26th August, but we had started on 12th February2019 after all these problems were encountered with this other commercial loan almost with 25 000 students on it and so forth. We started the instrument of a Government backed loan and we started discussions after all these questions also from Hon. Members with the Ministry of
Finance. In August, 2019, we were allowed to have this facility. It was quite a difficult one because they were saying it failed before and can you put safeguards this time.
We had to put it to tender to see which bank was interested in disbursing this type of Government backed loan. That is how CBZ came out as the one which agreed to do that. It answers the question why
CBZ. The Government backed loan started being financed to $8 million. Our agreement with CBZ is such that for every dollar, they put times two in terms of their disbursements. It means if Government puts $10 million, they will give loans worth $20 million and so forth. We started with $8 million. In fact, Government or through Parliament voted for $7.5 million and it means we had $15 million. It increased to $30 million.
This year, through Parliament we now have $52.5 million which basically means at this moment we can be able to disburse loans of Z$105 million. The form which has to be given to students is given through the universities because the universities form what they call student loan committees where students apply. They collect the forms and they go with them to the bank. On the form, policy-wise we said we are introducing this alternative loan, especially for those who might not have pay slips. So, there is a section which asks for other guarantees other than a pay slip.
This information that I am getting from Hon. Senator that there might be some confusion in terms of people being asked to bank through CBZ. Hon. President, we will have to investigate this because that is not the spirit of the policy. The spirit of the policy is that people with or without pay slips could be able to access this loan. I want to thank this Hon. House for having allowed us through the Finance Act to have this kind of loan for our students. We are looking forward to more votes into this so that this money gets to more than a billion in the next coming years. I thank you Hon. President.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President and
thank you Hon. Minister. Can I impress on the Minister, we appreciate on the measures he said is going to take. As I speak right now, there are thousands of students who have failed and some are not coming to school. I think this issue is a of matter of urgency because some of them do have parents who are banking with other banks and given as guarantor, but they are turned off because they need someone whose salary is directly going to CBZ. I would appreciate his urgent intervention because I am speaking on behalf of a very important constituency. As we speak right now, a lot of students and a particular example is at UZ, they are not going to school as a result of that. Thank you Madam President.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND DEV.
TECHNOLOGY (HON. PROF. A. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon.
President. I wish to thank Hon. Sen. Mavetera for the additional question because I have to clarify that we have not turned away any student from university as we speak. No student has been turned away, and so we believe that has to be taken as a fact. However, all those things of access we are going to rectify them. To date, more than 80% of the students fully paid their fees at the University of Zimbabwe in full.
However, there are still forms that are going to be considered through the university and to CBZ and I think this clarification is very useful to us because we will be able to take into consideration all the information that we are getting from here to make sure that all these are okay. Thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Minister. It is only that if you can rectify that problem soon if there is anything which is happening over there.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Madam President. My
question was supposed to go to the Minister of Transport but I am not seeing him here. I am directing this question to the Leader of the House. I wanted to understand what the Ministry is planning about potholes in roads even in highways - the highway from Harare to Beitbridge. Everyday people are dying because of potholes and cars are damaged. I even thought that if they had looked for a helicopter for me. I wanted to understand what plans the Minister is having about those potholes, because some of them are too big. You cannot even avoid them because when you try to avoid one, you get into the other. You find some haulage trucks having accidents because of these potholes. It is so frightening to use that road. I wish we could get helicopters because that road is no longer accessible.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Senator for that good question. Government policy is that our roads must be accessible especially the road you are talking about. This road has to be expanded. This work has started on the road but this issue of potholes I will take it to the Minister of Transport so that they plan that the portholes are filled in whilst we are trying to make the road better. So the issue of potholes, we will take it to the Minister that we fill in those potholes. Thank you.
HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Foreign Affairs and International Trade. When is Zimbabwe signing the
Protocol on the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights on the
Rights of Older Persons otherwise known as the Protocol on the Rights of Older Persons which was adopted by AU on 31st January 2016?
Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. MUSABAYANA): I want to
thank the Hon. Member for the question. Unfortunately, I think it is a bit of a specific question. I am not sure about that particular treaty but I will check with our records and see where it is and then come and update the House.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Maybe I encourage the
Hon. Senator that since it is a particular question, can you please put it in writing.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you President of Senate. whilst we are waiting for the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, I would like to ask the Minister of Home Affairs that is he aware that there are policies that are made by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development which have an impact on us because they will not be enforcing them? What I am trying to say is that, if you go to the Finance Department, they will tell you that we have a policy which uses United States dollars or RTGS which are two currencies here in
Zimbabwe, but when you go out, I do not know if the Minister of Home Affairs stays here, we have an RTGS, zip it, cash, ecocash, United States dollars and coins. Those are monies which are used. When you want one thing, you are told three different prices.
If you are in school, they are teaching it as a currency, which means we have about seven currencies in this country, but if you go to Finance, they will tell you that we only have two currencies. The Ministry of Home Affairs, I think should tell us the gap that remains between the policy that is there and enforcing. Do they stay in this country, are you aware of it? We are suffering. We need their help.
Thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Minister of Home
Affairs you are being asked where you stay – [Laughter] –
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Madam President. The Question is very pertinent. I stay in this country. What I can say is that I think they know that I am the Deputy Minister so they do not use different currencies but we hear that there are different currencies. For it to be criminalised, a person should be caught in the act. It is not a crime that you find a person with any other currency besides the Zimbabwean dollar.
I think, Hon. President, you are aware that it is not a crime to find someone with forex but for them to be demanded that they should use forex is now a crime, but they have to be caught in the act. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: This issue has troubled
- This week the Minister of Health and Child Care gave a very truthful statement about coronavirus. He said it as it is. We want all Ministers to do that. All Ministers have to do that. It is not your problem; it is not your fault. This is for the nation. If there is no rain, there is no rain and if we have drought, it is not your fault, do not tell us that it has rained. These things are happening. We want us to help each other. If we agree that we are having a problem, we can assist each other because if we go out in the streets, we see it happening.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, please ask
your question.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: My question is very
important. The question is, if you say you do not know, you weaken us.
We are asking and if you do not know, come back with a Ministerial Statement here that we get the truth that we fix the problem together.
People are suffering. We cannot keep quiet when people are suffering. This is very bad. More people are demanding forex. We have to do something.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I would like to inform
the Senate that administration was trying to get hold of the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development so that he attends today’s session but it appears he is out of town, but we are organising that he attends Senate next week so that he can give us a Ministerial Statement on this issue and thereafter, we can get clarification from him. Thank you. *HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Madam
President. Allow me to ask the Minister of Energy and Power Development. My question, Madam President is how can she assist us as many homes are falling apart because people are spending time in queues. Women and men are taking advantage of destroying their families whilst sleeping outside looking for fuel. What are you doing in terms of fixing the issue of fuel? People are always in queues looking for diesel and petrol.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Madam President
and I also want to thank the Hon. Member for his question which is very important at this moment. Every week when I come into this House, I meet this question on how we are going to fix the issue of fuel. Like I explained last week, all the problems are not solved in one day. We are trying our level best to fix the issue of fuel. We are working together with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the RBZ on how to solve the issue of fuel. We feel the pain to see long queues.
These problems are caused by a lot of things. One of the things which I
always talk about is for us to get fuel from our tanks to service stations, we need to pay upfront. Why do they not lower down the number of service stations which are demanding forex because we do not want to cry. As chiefs we are custodians of the culture, it is not very good for you Madam President to sleep in a fuel queue for three days. We should help each other. Some are spending three to four days in the queue and some are now taking advantage of that.
*HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Madam President, we are
looking into that. Those are allegations that there are many service stations which are demanding forex. However, as I have said before, there are only a few which are allowed, so we are investigating all those issues so that we ensure that there are few service stations allowed. The ZERA is moving around monitoring and evaluating but they are being overwhelmed on their capacity and they cannot go to each and every service station and they cannot monitor how fuel is being distributed. I answered that question last week, if we investigate how many were allowed and how many are selling, then we will see the way forward from there. May all the Senators here bear with us as a Ministry, we are doing our level best but the challenge before us is not small but a big one.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to have a supplementary question. I want to ask the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development; are you dealing with a cartel which is said to be disturbing the issue of fuel. They are said to be corrupt and they withdraw fuel and start threatening people whilst we are suffering. That cartel is the one which is causing trouble for us. Why can you not deal with that cartel strongly so that we can solve the issue?
Madam President, there was an issue of foreign currency which was said by the Minister. When I was crossing the border; when we are coming from South Africa, we pay duty in forex. I come from Zvishavane and fuel is bought in US$ there and there is no queue but it is not everyone who is getting US$, because we want to pay through swipe. Even if you go to the passport office, they want the US$, if you can deal with the cartel, it will solve our problems.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Madam President. I
want to ask the Minister; why is it that this week it is said we are only getting petrol and another week it is diesel, what will be happening that there is an exchange of supply between diesel and petrol. For those who are selling fuel in US$, they sell it at US$1.30, at how much are they getting that fuel?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You may answer the
last question. The question that you do not know how many service stations are selling in forex, I plead with you that the Minitry be serious
– [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Madam President. I think the question which has been asked by Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema; I think I am now confused –
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is on the price used
by those selling in forex.
*HON. MUDYIWA: Let me say, I explained it before, those who are allowed to sell in forex. The prices are controlled but for those ones who are selling illegally, their prices are not controlled by ZERA, they are just putting their prices. It is not lawful, they were not authorised by ZERA. That is why we are saying we are trying to investigate and find out the truth.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Madam
President. I am now confused by the question that has been asked by the Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema. I explained this before. The prices for those who were allowed to sell in foreign currency are controlled but for those who are selling illegally, their prices are not controlled by ZERA. They are just putting their prices unlawfully. They were not allowed by ZERA. That is why I said we are trying to investigate to find out the truth. ZERA is mandated to go out to service stations and see what is happening. We are trying our level best to solve the issue. I do not have the gazetted price off hand.
If we compare our prices and those within the region, our prices are very low. We are seeing an arbitrage and inflation of prices. If the fuel is being sold in Zimbabwean dollars and someone changes his US dollar, he can buy more fuel if he is buying fuel that is sold in the local currency. For those who were allowed to sell in foreign currency, their prices are known. For those who are selling outside the law, I do not know the price.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: The Minister is not aware of how many people were allowed to sell fuel in foreign currency. I do not know who gave them the authority if the Minister does not know. This is frightening.
*HON. MUDYIWA: I am not refuting that there are people charging fuel in foreign currency but those who were allowed to sell in foreign currency – their charge is known. I know that it is more than a dollar and some cents. I cannot cram all the figures in my head but I know that it is one dollar something. I will bring the figures that were gazetted by ZERA.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We cannot blame the
Minister for not having the exact figures off hand because if she just guesses, tomorrow we will blame her for that. Minister, may you bring us the exact figures.
HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA: My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. First of all, we need to applaud Government for having increased the number of universities in the country from one at independence to over a dozen. We now have universities in all provinces.
What is Government policy in ensuring that we have equitable distribution of institutions of higher learning excluding universities in all provinces especially with devolution now being a real process? I am talking about polytechnics, technical colleges and teachers colleges. I will give one example of Mashonaland West Province which has only one university and nothing else as far as higher and tertiary education is concerned.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Our policy is to
increase access to higher and tertiary education in the country across geography, gender and different abilities.
The question from the Hon. Sen. is about other institutions other than universities which are tertiary institutions. Chinhoyi University is occupying an area that was a technical college and we understand that. We have been promoting Mupfure Technical College which is there but we are also in the process of introducing more colleges, only that this year we have started with promoting the establishment of Hwange
Teachers’ College to make sure that we have built infrastructure at that place. We are also in the process of putting up a technical college in Plumtree and we are busy with the land application to do that – a 936 hectare area. We are also in the process of establishing a technical industrial training college at Chivi. We are on the move.
On all areas will be able to be reached at the same time but our policy is to increase access to higher and tertiary education – resources permitting, but we also believe that will-power is more important. Our will is to make sure that Mashonaland West – sometimes the disadvantage is that it is so close to Harare, so people come to colleges in Harare. Everybody ends up thinking that the colleges that are in Harare are also for Mashonaland West but we hear the point and we are in the process; we are looking at the possibility of putting a technical college at Trelawney – our budget permitting. The policy is very clear, increase access to higher and tertiary education by geography, gender and ability.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. Water is a very important resource in our day to day life as the human body is three quarters water but we find that water is not being able to be accessed because it is not being driven to where it is required due to lack of electricity. What is the Ministry’s policy regarding efficient supply to water treatment plants dotted throughout this country since people are not getting water because there is no electricity at all?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): I remember very well that
last week when we were in this House, again that same question was asked and I gave a response. The policy of our Ministry is that such critical areas should be supplied with electricity they need. Most of such areas have got dedicated lines. If I remember very well, even the question that was asked, there is a dedicated one line which passes through one of the water purification plants to another mine or so, but we cannot construct a dedicated specifically to the water purification plant. These electricity projects are capital intensive but if there is a dedicated line which passes through them and then goes to the other place that is what we have tried to do so that we ensure that water pumping is not disrupted but if at some point there is no electricity, it could be maybe there is a fault or because of some other problems. You know we have got a number of reported cases of vandalism on our transformers and everything else but we want to make sure that we have got dedicated lines for such critical areas like hospitals and water treatment plants.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Hon. Minister, if you can have a dedicated line to an institution, what makes it impossible to have a dedicated line to a water treatment plant?
HON. MUDYIWA: Electricity projects are capital intensive. We can have a dedicated line to a water treating point but which is also dedicated further to another area or place, that is what I am trying to explain. At the moment, if we do not have a dedicated line to that area, constructing a new dedicated line to supply electricity to a water treating point is very costly for ZETDC at the moment because of the financial constraints that they are going through.
Our policy as a Ministry is that we have a dedicated line to such places and we have tried to do that with all the water treatment plants. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 62.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Madam President, may we please have
20 more minutes. We have Hon. Ministers here …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: No, we have to follow
procedures. Let us do it properly. What is it? I am asking the whole House.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President. I propose
that the time for Questions Without Notice be extended by 15 minutes.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You have got to learn
to do things properly. We have procedures in this House. How long are we extending the time to? Twenty minutes? – [HON. ZIYAMBI: She said 15 minutes.] – Alright, let us extend the time for 15 minutes up to
Quarter to Four o’clock.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NYANGAZONKE: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. Hon. Minister, we have started losing quite a number of cattle because of people who transport cattle overnight. What is Government’s policy on people who transport cattle in the evening? Also, we have noticed that we no longer have overnight roadblocks whereby a lot of cattle are being slaughtered and the meat finding its way into towns. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you very much
Hon. President. The question from the Hon. Senator is very important given the challenges currently in the country where people are slaughtering cattle, that is not very healthy. We are going to encourage our Police Force to increase roadblocks to make sure that is contained. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
Over the past two weeks, President Donald Trump signed what is called an Exit Order to increase people on the targeted restrictions. What is
Government’s policy and what is happening in terms of removing the log jam between Zimbabwe and the United States of America?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND
INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. MUSABAYANA): Thank you
Mr. President and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for his question. It is true that the Americans have included two more people on their sanctions list. Previously, we had 141 and companies but they have added two more.
We are not happy with the development but they are saying that it is because of what happened, like the 1st August, 2019 shootings and the other one that happened on 1st January, 2019. It has nothing to do with what is happening. We have re-engaged the United States of America but also we have other constituents that think that something was not handled well. We have people who are writing to them on unverified issues of people who are dying of which Government is not aware of.
This is causing the impasse between us and the United States of America but as a country, we will continue with the re-engagement process.
What we are doing is formalisation of engagement like what we did with the European Union, that we sit down each and every year so that our relationship with the United States of America remains sound. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Hon. Minister, if the United States of America has added two more people on the sanctions list and they also informed us that these people were involved in the August and January shootings, what are our investigations saying? I am saying this because if this House understands how these things happened it will help them to explain properly even when they travel outside the country. Did we investigate that these people were not involved in those incidences that are being mentioned by the Americans? I thank you.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Hon. Senator for the
question. As Government, we did not say that these people were culpable of the crimes that they are being accused of and we are not saying that we are investigating those issues because with Ncube, it had to do with the shutting down of internet connectivity.
On the issue of Rtd. General Sanyatwe it was to do with the
August shootings that were investigated by the Monthlante Commission. We have prepared a response which the Ministry is currently working on with Home Affairs. Those are residual issues and have nothing to do with what is happening in the country. These are the issues that we are seized with.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr.
President, my question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development to confirm the existence of a certain policy and it is good if the policy is already there. When I am holding meetings with kraal heads, I want to be able to explain to them on how colleges are working with communities. Is it true that colleges are working with communities? If it is true, may you keep on with the credible work?
*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon.
President and thank you Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira. Yes, it is true that we said in order for a school to be successful, it has to be seen through the development of communities. So we said that every college and university must adopt the community and it is a full policy which gives benefit to our community. Colleges and Universities should be able to do things for the community. We should be talking of an Engineering department having built bridges or constructed structures in communities as part of their training. I agree that is the policy we are talking about, for people who are unable to do anything after finishing college. We are saying we no longer want that kind of education. We have introduced the 5.0 education to the people that will ensure that we are educated. We cannot say we are educated when we go hungry, go without bridges or without medicine. Hence universities through the 5.0 education should be visible to the people. That is very true.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Mines. In Zimbabwe there is a challenge of foreign currency and people talk about it every day. Currently we are treading on minerals, especially in Manicaland, where I come from. We are not getting any benefit from those minerals as Zimbabweans. Why do we not copy our neighbours, Botswana whose minerals are controlled by Government and the proceeds help all the citizens of that country, not just individuals and their families who extract the minerals for their own personal benefit? We are suffering Mr. President. Why do we not as a country say mining is done by Government so that everyone benefits.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): I want to thank the Hon.
Senator for the pertinent question. Firstly, I will touch on the foreign currency challenges that we are having, yet we are walking on minerals. Yesterday the Minister of Finance and Economic Development told the National Assembly that we do not have any challenges with foreign currency, but the challenge is with the distribution of foreign currency.
Our minerals bring a lot of foreign currency which is directed to purchasing drugs, fuel and food. In the last season we had a drought and Government is using foreign currency to buy grain. Most of the foreign currency is coming from the minerals. Many people are surviving because of the foreign currency that is coming from our minerals.
Countries like Botswana and South Africa also experienced what we are experiencing today but they are now at another level. So we are treading in their footsteps and we will get to a stage where other people will make reference to us as we will be mining our diamonds and gold. That is why we said as a Ministry, by next year we will be paying our revenue of $12 billion. So you see that Government is working and you will see how our minerals will benefit the people. The period 2018 to 2019 was set aside as stabilising periods. The year 2020 and 2021 going forward, we will be building our economy.
So, Hon Senator do not lose hope, we have a lot of minerals we are working on but at the present moment because of lack of financial resources, Government cannot excavate all the mines. I think our President has been selling Zimbabwe so that investors can come and help us at this stage until we are stable and able to mine our minerals by ourselves. I think you have seen that there were other mines where the Government was mining but because of the economic challenges, those mines have been closed down and cannot be opened. So we are banking on investors to come and cede their money so that our economy grows to the 12 billion level.
[Time Limit]
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
LEVEL OF AWARENESS OF MARRIAGE LAWS IN RURAL AND
URBAN AREAS
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to apprise the House on the current level of awareness of marriage laws in rural and urban areas; explain the causes of child marriages and measures being taken by the government to curb the practice and whether traditional leaders are involved in the fight against child marriages.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr
President. The Hon. Senator wanted to know about marriage laws and what we are doing about it. I must say that we have a Bill that is before Parliament and I want the indulgence of the Hon. Senator that we defer this and we deliberate on it when the Bill is before the House. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Chimbudzi, any objection.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: No objection Mr President.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President. I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 15 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 16 has been disposed of. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10A, 2019]
Sixteenth Order read: Second Reading: International Treaties Bill [H. B. 10A, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President. I rise to give my Second Reading Speech on the International Treaties Bill and I bring this most important Bill, required to be enacted not only because our Constitution mandates it in Section 327, but also because our values as a people and as a member of the international community of nations demands it.
Mr. President, for a long time our country was an outcast of the internal community of nations under the illegal colonial regime that declared the so called independence in 1965. That regime pretended to be a sovereign nation while existing in defiance of internal law and the norms and international customary law. Thanks to the international community of nations, and in particular our brothers and sisters in the then Organisation of African Unity (now the African Union), our people’s long and bitter struggle for justice, liberty and independence was brought to an earlier conclusion than perhaps many of us could have hoped in the face of a regime determined to keep us oppressed for the sake of a selfish few.
In the wake of our liberation in 1980, we naturally gave priority to our internal reconstruction and reconciliation needs and to reshaping our domestic order. In those early years, there was little done in the way of constructing a legal framework for engagement with the international community of nations. It was only in 1987 with the passage of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment NO (7) Act that a new Section
(second 111B) was added to the old Constitution to approve the manner in which international agreements and conventions were to be approved by Parliament before ratification by the President.
Mr. President, even then, it was uncertain whether approval and ratification of treaties was in itself sufficient to domesticate those treaties, that is to say, to treat them as part of our domestic law which our courts had to take judicial notice of. The later doctrine is known in internal law as the Doctrine of Incorporation. The alternative doctrine known as the Doctrine of Transformation, which is favoured by most Common Law jurisdictions of a treaty by the enactment of domestic legislation setting out modalities of how that treaty is to be implemented domestically (unless the treaty in question was “self-existing”).
This conflict of doctrines was only resolved in 1993 with the enactment of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 12)
) Act: With effect from 1 November, 1993, when this Act came into force, the common law position regarding the inception of international treaties in the domestic sphere, that is to say the Doctrine of
Transformation, was embodied in the new section of the old Constitution. The benefits of international law ought to be obvious to us all, but let us briefly rehearse them in case any reminder is needed. I am quoting here from a United Nations fact sheet dated 2008: “Without it, there could be chaos. Internal laws sets up a framework based on States as the principal actors in the internal legal system, and it defines their legal responsibilities in their conduct with each other, and, within State boundaries, with their treatment of individuals. Its domain encompasses human rights disarmament, internal crime, refugees, migration, problems of nationality, the treatment of prisoners, the use of force, and the conduct of war, among others. It also regulates the global commons, such as the environment, sustainable development, international waters, outer space, global communications and world trade.”
Mr. President, the details of the Bill before you are adequately set out in the Explanatory Memorandum. It will establish a uniform procedure for the consideration and approval of internal treaties by the Cabinet and Parliament before their ratification by the President, and for their publication after their ratification or, in some cases, before their ratification. One of the main mischief’s sought to be remedied by this Bill is that many international treaties having far-reaching consequences for our domestic law are concluded without the courts or the public having due notice of those treaties by way of their official publication. Even where official publication of the treaty is not possible or desirable for any reason, some official notice of the fact of its existence and ratification should be made for the benefit of the public. This Bill seeks to provide a mechanism for t he publication or notification of such treaties.
Hon. Members, this Bill will firmly lodge our country as a valued, reliable and respected member in the International Community of Nations. Many, I can even say almost all, of those nations have great goodwill towards us and harbor high expectations of our participation as a member of their community. We already as you know participate in many peace keeping endeavours around the globe under the auspices of the United Nations. Let us not fail them Mr. President. I urge you to support and pass this law whole heartedly. I so submit, Mr. President Sir, and I move that the International Treaties Bill [H. B. 10A, 2019] be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I object.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Yes. What is your
objection Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My objection was noted yesterday as well. My objection is that this Bill was amended by the National Assembly and it was brought to this House on 10th March, 2020. We only received the copies at 12.46 p.m. on our tablets and therefore we could not go through the amended copy of the Bill in order for us to have meaningful input to it. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. President, the Bill was not amended extensively. There was only one addition of a definition of a foreign organisation. So the Hon. Member, with his indulgence, this was just a minor amendment and the Bill, Mr. President Sir, has been sitting with us for a long time and the only amendment that was effected on this was to include the definition of a foreign organisation. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Mpofu, are you satisfied?
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I am not satisfied because this is becoming systematic and because it is systematic, it makes this House a rubber stamping environment which I do not think is what we are here
for.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. President Sir, with all due respect, the legislative process, when a Bill is gazetted it is now open for Hon. Members to research and prepare whatever script they want to use to debate. This Bill has followed all the due processes that are required by Parliament and it has been sitting with us for a long time. I have asked the indulgence of the Hon. Senator to say perhaps if the National
Assembly had made extensive amendments, I would have agreed with him to say he needs more time, but the honest truth that we cannot escape, all of us, is this Bill has gone through all the necessary stages that are required for it to reach this stage and I seek your indulgence that the objection is not with any merit. I thank you.
HON. B. MPOFU: I note what the Minister has said. Like I said, it is becoming systematic, possibly not only for this Bill but for other Bills. What is the standard that we are following for Senate if a Bill is given to us on tablets at 12.46 p.m. and we start Senate at 2.30 p.m. Honestly, let us be real. There is no way we can have enough time to go through the amended Bill. Remember an amended copy is a new copy.
Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Minister,
please approach the Chair.
Hon. Ziyambi approached the Chair.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President Sir. Mr. President, I will submit that on a technicality, I will defer it, but I must express my disappointment that this is not the first time. It happened some time when I brought before the House the African Charter on Human and
People’s Rights for ratification and there was an uproar that I did not give Hon. Members sufficient time to have a look at it. I indulged them and gave them time. When I came back, nobody debated and I was a disappointed man.
I indicated that the contents, the nature of this Bill is such that the only amendment was inclusion of a definition and the Hon. Senator is labouring to say that he received it and could not read a definition because it was late. However, I will indulge the Hon. Senators and give them what they want because that is what the Standing Orders say, but I am very disappointed the Hon. Senators are very untruthful – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] - Yes, it is very untruthful. The
Hon. Senator was very untruthful to say – [HON. SENATORS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,
order!
HON. ZIYAMBI: He was untruthful to say he did not have sight of the Bill and I submit that let us proceed with the other business of the House. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. President Sir, I move that we revert to
Order Number 10 on the Order Paper.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE JOINT CONVENTION ON THE SAFETY
OF SPENT FUEL MANAGEMENT AND THE SAFETY OF
RADIOACTIVE WASTE MANAGMENT
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President. Mr. President, I rise to indicate:-
THAT WHEREAS section 327(2) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Joint Convention on the Safety of Spent Fuel
Management and on the Safety of Radioactive Waste Management, Joint Convention, was adopted on 5th September 1997, and opened for signature on 29 September 1997;
WHEREAS The Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid Convention;
WHEREAS the Joint Convention entered into force on 18 June
2001;
WHEREAS Article 39 of the Joint Convention provides that the
Convention shall be open for accession by all States;
AND WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a Party to the Joint Convention;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327(2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE CONVENTION ON THE PHYSICAL
PROTECTION OF NUCLEAR MATERIAL AND NUCLEAR
FACILITIES
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President Sir. Mr. President:
WHEREAS Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Convention On the Physical Protection of Nuclear
Material and Nuclear Facilities was adopted by the International Atomic
Energy Agency General Conference on the 26th of October 1979, in
Vienna, Austria and opened for signature at Vienna and New York on
3rd March, 1980 and entered into force on the 8th of February 1987;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe has not signed the
Convention;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming
party on the Convention to establish measures related to the prevention, detection and punishment of offenses relating to nuclear material;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of ratifying the aforesaid convention;
AND WHEREAS the entry into force of the aforesaid convention shall be conditional upon its ratification by member states in accordance with their constitutional procedures;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327(2)(a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved. I thank you Mr. President Sir.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE CONVENTION ON ASSISTANCE IN THE
CASE OF A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT OR RADIOLOGICAL
EMERGENCY
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President Sir. Mr. President:
WHEREAS of Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or executed by or under the authority of the President with one of more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Convention on Assistance in the Case of a Nuclear
Accident or Radiological Emergency was adopted by the International Atomic Energy Agency General Conference at its special session, held on 24th to 26th September 1986, and opened for signature at Vienna on 26 September, 1986 and at New York on October 1986 and entered into force on 26th February 1987;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming Party to the Convention to set out a framework for co-operation with other state parties and with the International Atomic Energy Agency to facilitate prompt assistance in the event of a nuclear accident or radiological emergency to minimise its consequences and to protect life, property and the environment from the effects of radioactive releases; WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of ratifying the
Convention on Assistance in the Case of a Nuclear Accident or
Radiological Emergency;
AND WHEREAS the entry into force of the aforesaid Treaty shall be conditional upon its ratification by Member States in accordance with their constitutional procedures;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) (a) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved for ratification. I thank you Mr.
President Sir.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE ADDITIONAL PROTOCOL TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE SAFEGUARDS AGREEMENT
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS section 327 (2) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Additional Protocol to the Comprehensive
Safeguards Agreement (Protocol) was approved by the International
Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors in 1997;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is party to the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty (NTP) but has not signed the
Additional Protocol; and
WHEREAS, Article 17 of the protocol provides that the protocol shall enter into force on the date on which the agency receives from Zimbabwe written notification that Zimbabwe’s statutory and/or constitutional requirements for entry into force have been met or upon signature by the representatives of Zimbabwe and the agency;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE CONVENTION ON EARLY
NOTIFICATION OF A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move the
motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Convention on Early Notification of a Nuclear
Accident was adopted by the International Atomic Energy Agency General Conference at its special session, 24-26 September 1986, and opened for signature at Vienna on 26 September 1986 and at New York on 6 October 1986 and entered into force on the 27th October 1986;
WHEREAS Zimbabwe signed the Convention on the 26th of
September 1986;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming part of the Convention to provide relevant information about nuclear accidents as early as possible in order that the transboundary radiological consequences can be minimised;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of ratifying the aforesaid convention;
AND WHEREAS the entry into force of the aforesaid convention shall be conditional upon its ratification by Member States in accordance with their constitutional procedures;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for ratification.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE SENATE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President Sir, I want to thank the Hon. House for the work that we have done.
The Senate adjourned at Twenty Six minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday, 17th March, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 11th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
TABLING OF REPORT
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to bring to the
attention of the House that Section 12 of the Audit Office Act [Chapter
22:18] states as follows; any report transmitted in terms of Section 10 or 11 (a) to the Minister; or (b) to the appropriate Minister shall be laid by the Minister or appropriate Minister as the case may be, before the National Assembly on one of the seven days on which the National Assembly sits next after he or she received such report.
Where the Minister or appropriate Minister fails to lay any report before the National Assembly in terms of sub-section (1) within the period specified therein, the Auditor-General shall transmit a copy of such report to the Speaker of the National Assembly for the Speaker to lay it before the National Assembly.
On Friday, 30th of September, 2019, the Auditor-General submitted the report on the support of Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises by Small and Medium Enterprises Development Corporation under the Ministry of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, in terms of the Audit Office Act [Chapter 22:18].
In view of the fact that the relevant Minister has not tabled the said report within the specified timeframe, I therefore, lay upon the table the aforesaid report in terms of Section 12 (2) of the Audit Office Act [Chapter 22:18].
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My question is directed to
the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I do not see them here so I do not know whether I should direct it to the Leader of the House...
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. This is the umpteenth time that I stand to raise the concern of Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are not coming to Parliament. Section 107 is very clear. We have said this numerous times and nothing happens. The Leader of
Government Business is here and we implore him to take this message to the Head of State because some of these issues are very technical at the end of the day and we do not expect the Leader of Government Business to know everything. He ends up saying things in defence which really are not what we want to hear.
For how long can we continue like this? ZANU PF as a ruling party has got a lot of capable people and for them to be Ministers is not because they are brilliant, maybe they have better witchdoctors than others, that is how they are there. In terms of brilliance, ZANU PF has a lot of people with two thirds majority, why can they not have people who are capable and committed to changing their manifesto and the policies of this country? We cannot continue like this. The Leader of Government Business must take this message to His Excellency. The Speaker has written a letter to the President on this and nothing has happened.
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga has brought these issues up several times. For how long, when the country is in this state, and we get no Ministers telling us what we are doing. Primary and secondary education is quite critical to what we are doing. Minister of Finance is not here. We just do not know what to do anymore. I think you also have not read those who are absent without leave, maybe they are there. Maybe you can then tell us those who are absent without leave, if not, we expect Parliament to take punitive measures against them so that this does not continue.
We cannot have a ruling party with two thirds pretending as if you have no people. We cannot continue like this. What action is going to be taken now that they did not even put in their leave of absence? Tomorrow they will all be at the field day where His Excellency will be, yet they are not invited. They will all be there. I know them. They like to have their faces being seen there, yet they do not come here. What will they be doing there, yet they have work to do here? They will be at the field day where they are not even going to be recognised or greeted. ZANU PF must stop having people who patronise. You must behave like Hon. Murwira – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Order, Hon.
Members. I hear you Hon. Mliswa. We are still waiting for the list of apologies from our Journals Office. I think it is coming –[HON. T.
MLISWA: Next question time, point of privilege yatichataura you are a let down to the President, a disgrace to the President who put trust in you and you do not even do anything. You are not the best in the country Zimbabwe. You are here because of n’anga dzamakaona.] – Order, Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Like I said before Madam
Speaker, my question will then be directed to the Leader of the House. We know that the Minister of Education announced that the exam fees were going to be $15 but we also know that there is now another correspondence that seems to be coming that says that parents will pay $90 and Government $100. Can we actually hear what the position currently is, given that the deadline is finished and given the fact that if anything changes from the $15, it will mean that even teachers themselves who are teaching the children will not be able to get their own children to write examinations because the money that they are getting as a salary is not enough for them to be able to pay the exam fees. So if we may have an explanation Madam Speaker?
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the
Hon. Member for the question which I respectfully submit if she can put that in writing so that I can – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, we now have a tendency of liking responses that are not productive. She gave a narrative that parents are being told to pay a certain amount and Government will pay a certain amount. There are calculations that were done to come up with that. There is a cost to education and whether you are earning $500 or not, there is still a cost to quality education. My request is if she can put that in writing so that Hon. Members can get a correct answer that will be directed to the Minister so that he can explain how they came up with that particular formula. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: With all due respect Hon.
Minister, that question has two aspects to it. The first one is that Government announced that the examination fees are going to be $15. The Government has now changed presumptively, again. All we need is a statement that is coming up from Government to say what is the examination fee that they are now asking parents to pay because there is confusion. I am not sure
where the calculation is coming from. We just want a formal statement that comes from Government stating how much people are supposed to
pay.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, when she asked the question, I had a figure of $90….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May the Minister be heard in
silence.
HON. ZIYAMBI: She said she was giving an example that it was $90 and parents are supposed to chip in. My submission Hon. Speaker was that there is a cost to education, whether you are earning a dollar or $10 000, there is a cost to education. The reason why I said she should put that in writing is because even on examinations, there is a cost to the production of material and having that particular examination done – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] Hon. Members are so ignorant – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - to the extent that they expect me – like what Hon. T. Mliswa has said, to have all the figures in my head, of the cost of everything. So I believe that they also need education. The Hon. Minister is the one who is supposed to come here and articulate what the cost is, I so submit – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]…
*HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not think it is proper for the Minister to refer to Hon. Members as ignorant people.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Leader of the House,
may you please withdraw the word ignorant.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, it is not unparliamentary - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. BITI: Madam
Chair, you have made a ruling, so he has no choice] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Leader of the House,
may you withdraw that word.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, let me explain what I said – [HON.
MEMBERS: Withdraw, withdraw!]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, you are in the Chair, I withdraw –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Through you Madam
Speaker, let me inform the Minister that as we speak right now, the deadline was last Friday for that payment to have been done. All we are asking for now is, if the Minister can come as a matter of urgency, address this House and inform the general public on how much they are supposed to pay. That is all we are asking for.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank
the Hon. Member for the request which is very reasonable and I will transmit the message so that the Minister can do that.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. The
rules of this House are very clear. Before we start this session, Ministers who are absent without leave must be mentioned so that we know. If they are not mentioned, we must know why they are not here; you then implore the Leader of Government Business and the Chief Whip of
ZANU PF to get them here. This Parliament can adjourn until all the Ministers are here – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear here.] – the Minister and the Deputy Minister of Education are busy sitting in their offices.
Today we must be serious. May this Parliament adjourn until all the
Ministers are here because there is no reason for us to continue with Question Time.
Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development is not here. There was a Monetary Policy today which he must respond to. We cannot continue like this, it cannot remain a circus. We expect you Madam Speaker, as a woman to put this House in order. May you please rule on that? I therefore move for adjournment until the list of the Ministers who are absent without leave is mentioned.
May we adjourn until all the Ministers are here. These are the rules of the House and Madam Clerk who is there knows the rules of the House. The names must be read. I use the rules to implore you to name all the Ministers and the Deputy Ministers. We cannot just be good in taking cars, having Aides and fuel coupons and you are not here to work for the people. That is a waste of taxpayers’ money. You are letting down the President every day, munoita bhora musango kuna President muchiti mo supporter President. Where is your loyalty? We are tired of this. The list must be called or else we adjourn. Question time only happens when Ministers are here. Let us adjourn, we cannot continue like this, taneta nazvo izvi. Ma Aides munawo, pay murikupiwa, chii chirikutadzisa kuti muuye…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat Hon. Mliswa.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have got a list of apologies from Hon. Ministers;
Hon. S. B. Moyo - The Minister of Foreign Affairs and
International Trade,
Hon. M. Ndlovu - The Minister of Environment, Climate
Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry,
Hon. K. Kazembe - The Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural
Heritage,
Hon. E. Moyo - The Deputy Minister of Primary and
Secondary Education and
Hon D. Marapira - The Minister of State in the Vice
President Mohadi’s Office
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, where are the rest of the Ministers? They must be here. We need serious business. We cannot be joking like this. We have travelled too far to come here busy wasting taxpayers’ money at this Parliament. Madam Speaker, where are the
Ministers who are not here? The Minister of Primary and Secondary Education has not been mentioned, he must be called. Parliament must be adjourned. He must find his way here so that he knows the answers of this institution. Madam Speaker, it is women’s month, use that to put this House in order. We must have authority over these Ministers. The
Constitution is very clear. This is a very important institution.
Education is critical right now, why are they not here. Finance is not here again.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. We
cannot adjourn the House. Hon. Members can ask questions to the
Ministers who are present. I am sure some of them are on their way.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, you cannot run the Parliament like that. Even the Minister of Defence who is the national chairperson of the Ruling Party, who is part of the presidium is here. What about those who are under her. We cannot run Parliament like that. You must answer to my point of order, which is why are the Ministers who are not on the list not here? It cannot be business as usual. I have the right for you to tell me what action you are going to take. The national chairperson is here, where are the other ministers, the deputy ministers who are not here? They are the ruling party. We cannot continue like this. The rules are very clear, if the ministers are not here, what charge are you going to give them? If it is contempt of
Parliament, let it be that. We are governed by the rules.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa. I have
heard your opinion and I have already made a ruling. The chief whip has now gone outside of the House to phone the Ministers who are not in the House.
*HON. T. MLISWA: That is what you should have informed us.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. I think you have ruled and Hon. Mliswa has made his point. We have several Ministers here. My plea is we have called those that are around to come. For the sake of progress, Hon. Members can field questions to ministers that are here while the others that are not here are coming. That is my request to you. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I agree with you Hon. Leader
of the House. Let us go ahead.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Good afternoon Madam Speaker. How are you?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am very well, how are you.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: My point of order is that Hon. Ziyambi is wearing political attire. He is wearing the signature of Mr. Mnangagwa which is ANU PF. Parliament does not allow us to wear such things. Therefore, it is my submission that the Hon. Minister Ziyambi should remove the signature of Mr. Mnangagwa or we stop working until that has been resolved. Once you want to behave like that, I have a Chamisa T-shirt outside and I will come here wearing it. We will bring in Chamisa T-shirts and signatures as well because they are also there. He must remove that thing. If that is the case, we will bring loads of Tshirts from Chamisa which have signature and business will be at a standstill until Hon. Ziyambi removes Mnangagwa’s thing that he is wearing.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Once you have made your
point of order, may you please resume your seat so that I can make a ruling.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Alright, I am seated here.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sit on the bench.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I hear what the Hon.
Member is saying – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, I have heard
what you have said. I am not sure that if I were to conduct a body search, will I not find anything that identifies your party. Do you want me to throw you out?
HON. ZWIZWAI: Madam Speaker...
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: From the knowledge that I
have, the President’s signature is not a symbol of the Party. Let me say this, some of you are also dressed in red clothes.
*HON. ZWIZWAI Last time there was a ruling that was made before and it is compelling you, Hon. Mutodi had to remove that badge. The precedence has been set and the Hon. Speaker asked Hon. Mutodi to remove it.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He has removed it, may you
take your seat so that we can proceed.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMETARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. ZIYAMBI: For the sake of progress, I have removed it but
I do not think for the sake of progress banners should be displayed in
Parliament. A banner and a signature of the President is different.
However, it is very unparliamentary.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister for
removing it.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is that for 3 weeks, we have not been seeing Hon. T. Khumalo.
We are concerned about the noise that is happening within the MDC party; in Masvingo and Bulawayo they are fighting. We thought Hon. T.
Khumalo had been attacked because we were not seeing her here in
Parliament. We want to thank God that she has come in this august House today. The noise that the MDC members are making right now is what they do outside this Parliament, they are noise markers. Here in this august House, they make noise so how can we move with such a group. I thank Hon. T. Khumalo for coming back – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
+HON. MATHE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. While I realise that Social Welfare is giving maize to the elderly, what is the Government policy on giving them cash for their groceries namely sugar, salt, soap and money to use for the medicals?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Anyone who is considered to be vulnerable and put on our social welfare roll is assisted in two ways; either through the distribution of grain or through cash transfers. When we do cash transfers to the elderly that is where they will be able to buy other things other than grain. So, we have two modalities of assisting the elderly - cash transfers as well as grain distribution.
+HON. MATHE: Are you giving them money for groceries? If so, how much?
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Speaker, I have indicated that we have two modalities of helping the elderly and these have to be vulnerable elderly, some are not vulnerable and therefore, they do not receive Government assistance. Those who are vulnerable, there are two ways as I indicated, one is a cash transfer system and this is where they can get enough money to buy the things that she is referring to like sugar and the like. On the issue that she further raised of medical assistance, there is a separate scheme that takes care of the vulnerable and the elderly through a medical assistance programme.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question and I want to ask a supplementary question. It is talking about the elderly, especially for the people aged 70 and above. With the economic challenges that we are facing, there are no jobs; our money cannot buy and people are suffering. Would it not be possible Hon. Minister that Hon. Mnangagwa, who is 76 years goes on pension. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! The question
that has been asked by Hon. Zwizwai should not be answered. It is neither a policy question nor has it anything to do with the sitting of this
House. It has nothing that is relevant to what is happening in this House. I only want policy questions. Thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. May I know the Government policy regarding the 2019 – 2020 marketing of cotton? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Thank you Madam Speaker. I am humbly requesting the Hon. Member to be clear regarding the question.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. May the Hon.
Minister respond to the pricing policy regarding the marketing of cotton?
HON. HARITATOS: Madam Speaker, our responsibility as a
Ministry is the production of cotton. When it comes to modalities of payment, it does not fall within our Ministry, unfortunately. Therefore, I am not the Minister to respond to the Hon. Member’s question. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I have a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Madam Speaker
today the Minister of Finance and Economic Development issued a very clear statement with regards to the setting up of the currency stabilisation taskforce and I am not managing to identify him or the deputy in the House. This statement has far reaching consequences to the questions which are being asked by Hon. Members. I therefore propose Madam Speaker that because of the nature of impact from my reading to the extent that he says some of the measures are going to be implemented with immediate effect and they have a bearing on the exchange rate. I propose that the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development brings that particular statement for interrogation with Parliament tomorrow. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chikwinya.
I hear your concerns. We will talk to the Minister so that he will bring the statement in the House. Thank you.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Matiza. Is it Government policy that motor vehicles belonging to political parties are now being registered under the Office of the President and Cabinet, for example, all the ZANU PF vehicles that are parked outside Parliament. Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. It is not my knowledge. I will go and make an enquiry and come back and report to the House.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: I heard the Minister saying that he is
not aware of that, he will go and find out. I also want him to find out that more than 270 ZANU PF vehicles are now registered under the President and Cabinet. Secondly, they are also not paying tollgate fees –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – may I be protected Hon.
Speaker?
So Hon. Speaker, I am asking through your office, that the
Minister brings a Ministerial Statement as regards the issue that he is going to investigate and then clarify to us whether they are under the
President’s Office and whether the vehicles were bought by
Government’s money or by ZANU PF.
Furthermore, the Hon. Minister should come and clarify as to whether duty was paid for those motor vehicles and how the Minister is going to correct this scandalous anomaly that happened. I am warning against corruption, therefore, I am asking for a ministerial statement.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Members, I remember yesterday the Hon. Speaker said that in this House, our behaviour, the manner in which we carry ourselves should be very respectful and honourable. We should respect ourselves so that the world will see that we are serious and we are working hard. Today, there is live broadcasting, so if you ask your question the Minister will respond rather than to continue asking irrelevant things because you want to be seen on television. At the end of the day, the public will see that you are wasting time and tax payers’ money.
HON. MADIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of ICT. What is Government policy regarding phinetex like Econet, CASSAVA Smartec that are operating in the financial systems in terms of protecting consumers from fraudulent activities in the face of accelerating digitalization?
*HON. MAFUTA: On a point of order! Hon. Speaker, we are seeing an Hon. Member wearing a face mask in the House, is he not feeling well or what is his problem?
HON. WADYAJENA: The Hon. Member is accusing me of
having corona virus. I do not know why she is saying that –[HONN.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER OF INOFRMATION,
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. PHUTI): Thank you very much Hon. Member for a
brilliant question. The Government is working on digital infrastructure mass supply and amongst various issues concerning this sector.
HON. PHUTI: Thank you very much Hon. Member for a brilliant question. The Ministry of Information, Communication and Technology is seized with work on the digital infrastructure master plan. These programmes are meant to ensure that such issues are addressed but let me hasten to say it is also imperative that we base such concerns on the coming into law of the relevant Act that is supposed to pass through this House as tabled by the President under the legislative agenda.
HON. MADIWA: I am asking this question because cyber attacks are becoming more sophisticated. People are losing a lot of money through Ecocash. Just go out where Ecocash is registering its clients.
You will find old people queuing to be registered and there is no sanity Madam Speaker. They are asking for I.Ds of those old people without knowing that they are being duped. Yesterday I witnessed a lot of people at Econet who had thousands of money stolen through Ecocash. What I am asking is what is being done because cyber attacks are becoming more sophisticated. To me, cyber fraud is more dangerous than terrorism.
HON. PHUTI: I agree that cyber attacks have become a serious concern but I want to believe that this is more of a comment that alerts us than it is a question. But I think I was clear Madam Speaker to say that there is a Bill that is meant to be tabled, I hear on Friday in this House, that is supposed to look into such because indeed cyber attack is an issue.
*HON. P. ZHOU: My question is directed to the Minister of Lands. A lot of farmers are coming to Harare to have their documents sorted out so that they can receive fertiliser, diesel and seeds at CBZ. My question is - what mitigatory measures is Government going to put in place to ensure that farmers’ plight are lessened so that they go to the nearest CBZ branch countrywide instead of coming to Harare?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CULTURE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question she has posed. Such problems were reported to our Ministry and we have taken the problems to CBZ who have said they are dealing with the issue by form of devolution so as to ensure that the banks at district level can cater for whatever savings, it is that our farmers regroup in order to save our farmers the long trips to Harare. The majority of our farmers are all over the country and it does not make sense for them to come and congregate in Harare, also bearing into mind the cost and the numbers involved. CBZ has assured us that everything is in order and is moving smoothly. If you come to our offices, you can meet us and we give you an update on the wheat crop.
*HON. P. ZHOU: I want to thank the Minister for the response but I want to say on the issue of diesel, in Midlands we are being asked to get fuel from Trek Kadoma, what is wrong with Trek Gweru or that in Kwekwe?
*HON. HARITATOS: Hon. Speaker, what the Hon. Member has
said is true. We have raised that issue with CBZ because it is having an impact on the service station in Kadoma. CBZ has promised to look into the issue for this upcoming wheat season.
HON. S. NDLOVU: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance, in absentia to the Leader of the House. The question relates to the shortage of cash in the economy. Banks have set a maximum withdrawal of a paltry $300 bond per week. This has resulted in a situation whereby the few people who have cash are now selling it at a premium on the black market. May the Hon. Minister give us timelines of when the RBZ will intervene and in fact, make an upward review of the current withdrawal of $300 per week?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA) on behalf of the
MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY
AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I wish to thank the Hon. Member for
the question and I kindly request that she puts it in writing so that a detailed answer can come from the RBZ. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: My point of order is that there is a limit of
$300 as a withdrawal limit and is Government policy. The question speaks to the realities of inflation and the demand for upwards of the $300 and that is purely a policy question, so the Minister cannot hide behind converting a policy question into a specific question. We request for respect as Members of Parliament because the answer is being awaited by the people who are queuing everyday to get $300 yet it is not even enough to buy six quarts of beer.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. S.
Ndlovu, please may you ask your question again.
HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
now directed to the Leader of the House. The question relates to the shortage of cash in the economy. Banks have set a paltry $300 per week. This has resulted in a situation whereby the few people who have cash are now selling it at a premium on the black market. May the Hon. Minister give us timelines of when the RBZ will intervene and effect an upward review…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order!
HON. S. NDLOVU: Madam Speaker, we want timelines on when
the RBZ will effect an upward review of the current withdrawal limits of $300 per week. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
Speaker, the question was asked sometime and the Minister of Finance gave an explanation. I believe if Hon. Members are not happy with the response, they can put that question in writing so that he can come again and give another detailed explanation. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. Hon.
Speaker, I do not think that is the position of our Standing Rules and
Orders that if a Minister has not given a detailed response, then an Hon.
Member has to put that question in writing. That is not the position. The position is that the Minister should go on to explain and give the details without us having to reduce that into writing. That is an important question he has to attend to. If he does not know, it is not an offence for him to say I do not know, it is allowed. I think the Hon.
Minister should answer.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, as you can see
the Minister of Finance is not present.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Why does he have to pretend that he is an Acting Minister of Finance; he does not have to pretend to be. If he does not know, let them simply say there is no Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Member
was not listening when I spoke. He jumped to say that the Hon. Minister will bring a detailed response. I indicated that the question was asked and if Hon. Members are still not happy with the answer that was given then – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – they can put the clarifications that they need pertaining to the answers that were given so that he can come and clarify again.
Madam Speaker, you guided me that I should not use certain words but certainly we need to also go and read our Standing Rules and Orders.
We must also understand that in Government there is somebody who can stand in the place of any Minister. For lack of a better word, I put it that way, that the Hon. Member must go back and read so that he can be educated rather than come here to say disparaging words. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
When the Minister responded to the question, the environment was at a certain position. The environment was that the exchange rate was at 1:15 but now the environment has changed. The Minister is a lawyer, he knows that when circumstances change, you need to adapt to change. What the Hon. Member was saying was that $300 dollars is now equivalent to almost US$5, can the Minister consider increasing the minimum withdrawal?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is why the Leader of the
House has said that the Hon. Member must put it in writing so that the responsible Minister will come with the answer.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. When
we started this session, I rose twice on a point of order to say that Ministers who are mandated to run this portfolio are not here. I do not blame Hon. Ziyambi’s attitude because he is being bombarded with things which he is not responsible for. So he is being defensive in the process. I have said Madam Speaker Ma’am, that the Hon. Minister of Finance and the Deputy were not on the list of absent with leave. The same applies to the Minister and the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We are reducing this Parliament to a circus. The monetary issues are critical to this country. The Minister of Finance is the only one who can respond adequately to that. So where are we going? The Chief Whip said the Ministers are coming, they are not here. Where are they? I am still asking the question. You promised us that they are coming and now we are about to finish Question Time. What is the point of us coming here, prepare and ask questions?
Madam Speaker, we cannot continue with the Leader of
Government Business all the time. You must protect him, you must feel sorry for him because he ends up saying things which are defensive and not factual. It is only the Ministers who are mandated - if the President thought he was good in finance, he could have appointed him the
Minister of Finance and Economic Development but he is not the
Minister of Finance. So why are we making him the Minister of Finance? This is turning into a circus, people think we are a joke, at the end of the day because permanent issues which are affecting people on the ground cannot be addressed by the Leader of the House. Where are those Ministers, I ask again? – [AN HON. MEMBER: Zvakwana, tazvinzwa.] – Where are the Ministers, I have a right to ask these questions according to the rules.
Madam Speaker, you read the names of those who are not here, what about those who did not put in their names to be absent? You said the Chief Whip was going there. ZANU PF, you are the ruling party and each opportunity which comes you must try to grab it. You are losing traction and the hearts of the people because you are not responding to issues that affect people. We are here for serious business at the end of the day. We do not dress in this regalia of the lion and hat like this to come and play games here. We have come here to ask serious questions.
We cannot continue like this Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, your Chair can only be taken seriously if you are firm to these Ministers. You are the boss of these Ministers and they are not your bosses at the end of the day. You cannot worry about them because they are Cabinet Ministers. We are the House that has oversight over Government. This is becoming a worst of time, a circus every day. We cannot continue with this circus when we are busy suffering. People want answers on the ground, what do we say to them? You are supposed to phone them. Hon. Chief Whip, where is the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development? Madam Speaker, can you be firm – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - where are they? We cannot continue like this. If the President is not happy with dogs that he is hunting with, he must change the dogs and hunt with new dogs. A hunter must change dogs. There are many people who are capable of doing these jobs. It is a waste of time. We come here, the Monetary Policy was announced, nothing happened. Why are we here? The President is a hunter and he must hunt with his dogs. If his dogs are not able to bite, you change them as a hunter and you find those that can bite. There are so many of them who can do the job. We are tired of this. This country is dependent on non-production of results – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. I want to acknowledge what Hon. Mliswa is saying and also acknowledge what Hon. Madzimure has said. Madam Speaker, I admit that circumstances have changed, that is the reason why I said, in trying to manage the economy and the inflationary pressures, perhaps if you put that in writing, the Minister will come and explain the measures that they are putting in place to ensure that the pressure is relieved from the members of the public. At the same time, the Minister will explain the measures that he is taking. This question was asked and this is a repeat question. I would want the Minister to come and explain the measures that he is taking in the management of the whole economic situation. I thank you.
*HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am not at
liberty to force the Hon. Minister to respond to an issue that he is unable to answer. There is this predicament where if you go to the bank, you are given $300 and out of the $300, $150 is unacceptable to business and industry. Should one decide to take the money back to the bank, the bank will not accept it. As a result, you end up being short changed.
How are our people going to live under such circumstances.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. I hear and appreciate what the Hon. Member is saying. That is the reason why I had humbly suggested that the question be written and be given to the relevant Minister so that a full response can be given. However, I appreciate that it is quite painful for a person who has received $300 to lose a $100 due to the fact that the notes are torn and industry and business is not accepting it. I will endeavour to find
out why our banks are neither accepting nor replacing our own torn currency. I thank you.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: What is Government’s policy as
regards the resettlement of Cyclone Idai victims? I observed on television that they are living in temporary shelter in the form of tents. Why is Government not looking for farms nearby and relocate the people of Chimanimani that were affected by Cyclone Idai. I say so because we have become the laughing stock of the region as well as in China where I was receiving treatment. Binga also experienced the same challenge of floods. May I suggest that they be given new places which they can construct for themselves maybe twelve hectares or so that they can be able to produce crops and become self sustainable.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. M. CHOMBO): Thank you very
much Madam Speaker and thank you Hon. Matambanadzo. I appreciate your concern over those who were affected by Cyclone Idai. We tried our best by providing tents to the affected families so that they can have shelter. When you experienced such disasters, there are studies that are taken to ensure that the proposed resettlement areas will be safe. Again it is a challenge when trying to relocate someone from the area they have been staying for a very long period. However, we have acquired land at Nedziwa and we are going to peg about 600 stands for them to be resettled but there was some resistance because they were saying it is far away and there are no employment opportunities. I would like to thank the Minister of Finance for he has allocated money in the Budget for the affected families. Very soon you will start seeing progress on the relocation of Cyclone Idai victims.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you very much Madam
Speaker. I would like to thank the Minster for the good response. My supplementary is that Minister, I can see that this problem is long overdue and our country is now a mockery because the Government is failing to find solutions to this problem. I travelled to China where I was being treated; they were saying that we are trying to lure donations and getting more assistance by delaying to solve our problems. We must give these people a new place to stay; Government is now being blamed because of the situation in Chimanini. We must not take long to solve this issue of Chimanimani. Ministers will continue to change without resolving anything. I thank you.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker, and I thank the Hon. Member for his question. The Government is doing something to make sure that these people are resettled. We have limited resources and a lot of areas that were affected by these floods. These are natural disasters that were not budgeted for. However, we will continue to help these people with the little that we have. This year we were allocated funds so that we build decent homes so that these people are resettled.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works.
I want to ask the Minister whether there is a budget to build schools...
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, are you
asking a supplementary question or a new question?
*HON. MURAI: I want to thank the Hon. Minister for her answer that they have identified suitable places to resettle the Chimanimani people. However, in Nedziwa, a place that you saw fit to resettle people, my worry is that it is one of the places that was affected by floods and a lot of people were killed. A lot of places in Nedziwa were affected by floods; can the Minister consider resettling people in other safe places other than in Nedziwa. People are refusing to move from Chimanimani to Nedziwa because of this.
*HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Member for the
supplementary question. Yes, most parts of Chimanimani area were affected by floods. People wanted to relocate to places near mountains but we did our surveys and we saw that it was not fit to resettle people there. In Nedziwa we found them places where there is high ground and our experts first went to assess the area and reported that it is a safe area and people will not be affected by floods.
*HON. SEWERA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Health and Child Care, in his absence the Leader of Government Business. In villages we have what we call primary care nurses. When are they going to be upgraded? I also want to enquire when the allowances of village health workers will be reviewed.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon. Member for the question. These nurses have all what it takes to make sure that they upgrade themselves through education so that they obtain the necessary qualifications. If they attain the necessary qualifications, they will then be upgraded, as they are in the system already, they will be given first preference than their counterparts who will be coming from outside.
*HON. SEWERA: I also asked about the village health workers
as well.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, be specific,
what is it about the allowances?
*HON. SEWERA: We are getting the information that the village health workers are getting US$14 and that there is an organisation that is assisting them with this amount. What is Government doing to make sure that they also take part in paying the village health workers?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I will leave it to the Minister for Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to respond whether there are employees that are being paid their salaries in US dollars, I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Madam Speaker,
my understanding is that this economy is running on mono-currency as far as the payment of all civil servants is concerned. I am not aware of any civil servant who is receiving remuneration in any other currency which is not the Zimbabwe dollar. Thank you.
*HON. ZENGEYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Hon.
Member asked a good question. If you look at the economy of this country, you would observe that in the health sector, we have very few nurses that are employed because they are not being sufficiently paid.
So, the group of people that has been mentioned by the Hon. Member is assisting people in the communal areas. They are responsible for delivering pregnant women, they are also attending to HIV patients. They are doing it wholeheartedly and the Government should appreciate them so that they have a better life as the result of the services that they are offering. Thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Sorry Madam Speaker I was
distracted. I would appreciate it if the Hon. Member repeats the question.
*HON. ZENGEYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question to
the Hon. Minister is, these people are helping people in our constituencies. What is Government doing to reward them for the crucial job that they are doing?
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Madam Speaker, we always look at
the working conditions of civil servants. In January, we made a review on civil servants salaries and there is no category that was left out.
However, I do not think village health workers are part of the regular civil servants. Whatever they get might be just an incentive that comes directly from their Ministry. Thank you.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Madam Speaker, I request that the Hon.
Minister does some research on the issue and come back to the House and give us a detailed report.
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Madam Speaker, if one is not a civil
servant, I will not have information about the specific person. Otherwise, if they are directly engaged by their Ministry, the question should be directed to the respective Ministry. My Ministry has responsibility over civil servants and in this particular case, the village health workers are not civil servants.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you. Madam Speaker, I have
heard what the Hon. Minister said. However, in the rural areas, these village health workers are there and they are working. I request that Minister of Health and Child Care comes to this august House and give a
Ministerial Statement.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon.
Mutseyami. We will ask the Minister of Health and Child Care to come to the august House and give a statement.
*HON. MUCHIMWE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. What is Government policy with regards to motorists who are driving vehicles that are not roadworthy?
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by the HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker,
the Hon. Members wanted the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, to explain certain issues. He has come with a Ministerial Statement and perhaps issues that were being raised by the Hon. Members can then be addressed. So, with the indulgence of the House, can we suspend Oral Answers to Questions with Notice so that the Hon. Minister can present his statement and clarifications? I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
MESURES TO DEAL WITH THE INSTABILITY OF THE
EXCHANGE RATE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Madam Speaker, I am
delighted to share with my colleagues, Members of Parliament here present, certain measures that we, as Government have decided to take with the direction of the President at his instigation to deal with the instability of the exchange rate with a view to also stabilise inflation.
We have explained these recommendations, these pronouncements
to the industry, the financial sector and to the media and I see it proper that I should do it in this august House, to the legislators. First of all, the President has set up a Currency Stabilisation task force. This task force which is spearheaded by the Ministry of Finance, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, the Central Bank Officials, members of the monetary policy committee who are doing a sterling job and members of the
Presidential Advisory Committee - that is the composition of the Currency Stabilisation task force.
The task force will be chaired by myself, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and will meet at least once a week to review the conditions in the market, monitor the behaviour of key variables such as the exchange rate, inflation and ensure that the measure that I will outline below, are expeditiously implemented but also tract. The task force will put in place additional policy measures if necessary.
Let me now outline these measures; first of all…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Minister! Vehicle
ABL 4898 is obstructing other vehicles; please may the owner go and attend to it. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: First of all, I would like to define the exchange rate system that we have adopted today going forward. It is what we call a managed floating exchange rate system. So far
Zimbabweans have not been having a transparency and effective foreign exchange trading platform for a long time. Consequently, official rates have not been effectively determined while a thriving parallel market has developed. To correct this anomaly, an electronic foreign currency trading platform based on the Reuters system will be immediately put in place.
This platform will allow foreign exchange to be traded freely amongst the banks and permit the true market exchange rate to be determined. The Bureau de changes will also participate on this platform through their authorised dealers. The trading rules for the Bureau de changes will also be enforced and refined but largely bureaus are being liberalized so that they can conduct wider range of business and transactions.
The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe will continue to be a significant player in the market providing liquidity to stabilise the exchange rate where necessary. This mechanism will immediately be operational; all foreign exchange requirements will be available through the interbank market which will use a market determined exchange rate.
I now want to turn to the eco-system for this exchange rate system and that is composed of the commercial banks, the Reserve Bank of
Zimbabwe, the Bureau de changes and the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development. It also includes the mobile banking platforms. Let me start with the commercial banks; the specific steps and measures being taken by Government and key stakeholders will ensure the success of this system as follows:- the interbank market will be operationalised based on the Reuters systems as I have said. All banks are invited to join the market. There is going to be a coalition of the willing, also the coalition of the understanding of the system; who will begin to use this system and the bureaus will join in. We expect all banks to use this system.
The banks will be what we call what we call the market makers and the Reuters system will generate a daily exchange rate at the morning or the a.m. but also in the afternoon or the p.m. mix. Banks will charge bureaus very thin margins on transactions which are routed through them as authorised dealers. That is the first category – the commercial banks.
The second category is the Bureau de changes are immediately liberalised as per RBZ rules and we will widen the scope of their services going forward, including the financing of imports.
Let me be clear; on imports we want to make sure that there are strict rules as to how these applications are handled between the Bureau and the authorised dealer if it is the Bureau acting on behalf of the authorised dealers. We do not want a situation where an importer goes to Bureau number one, two and three for the same request and it is circled three times because the system cannot track it and therefore foreign currency is externalised on fictitious imports. We have to deal with that. The Bureau will be market takers as I have said. They will trade the foreign exchange with a spread of 5% either way, so they are not price makers or takers.
The Bureaus will have a minimum float of US$20 000. They shall have access to physical cash available from the RBZ with daily limits.
Cash purchases can be paid for in Z$ at obviously 1:1 in terms of cash, RTGs or in US$ settled at the daily exchange rate. All Bureau requirements shall be demand driven. So the Bureau has to demand cash and it will not be a case of the Central Banks supplying cash. It should be demand driven. Bureaus can use excess US$ to purchase the Z$ cash from the RBZ as well.
Let me turn to the third player in the ecosystem and it is the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. The RBZ as usual will monitor the daily exchange rate and intervene as necessary. It shall release foreign exchange into the interbank market based on a well defined foreign exchange rate stabilisation policy. It shall maintain a fully operationalised reuters trading desk in the trading room so that the bids and offers by banks on the reuters system can be monitored and influenced if required. It will also fine-tune the rules for the operation of Bureau De`Changes and carefully make sure that the policy of use of free funds is well-managed.
As you know, we started with the DFI fuel. We want to make sure that this is well managed and we will be announcing more rules to make sure that any arbitrary behaviour on DFI fuel sales is dealt with but also we are already using free funds to import wheat, cooking oil and other basic commodities for sale in domestic currency and not foreign currency.
The RBZ shall also release any surplus funds beyond what is required for servicing essential banks and other priority Government uses into the interbank market on a daily basis. It shall also provide the Ministry of Finance and the monetary policy community with precise data on a daily and weekly basis, of forex inflows and estimated amounts available for release into the interbank market.
The bank will also discontinue the use of letters of credit gradually and encourage all importers, including fuel importers to access foreign currency through the interbank market. In the interim, all letters of credit should be issued at the daily interbank rate. It will also work with major importance to access and smooth the forex demand. What we mean here is that if Company X needs $4 million, it cannot access that at one goal. Even if it can access it over two days, it should be spread around various players around banks. We know that large companies have more than one bank. They usually have at least three banks, so they should spread it around. We do not want a bullet demand or bullet payment going into the parallel market to be specific.
The RBZ will also work with the small banks that do not have significant importer clients to access forex from the interbank market. We do not want to create a dual banking system where small banks are shut out from the interbank market. It is the job of the RBZ to make sure that they are still in the game and help them along to access forex and play in that market.
I now turn to supporting measures on money supply, liquidity management and interest rates. To support the success of the new foreign exchange management system, the following measures have been put in place. It should be noted that all these measures are part of our de-dollarisation road map, so they will be introduced in a phased but time bound manner. Government is cognisant of the fact that the unrestrained increases in money supply are one of the fundamental causes of inflation and the depreciation of the exchange rate. Indeed, hyperinflation prior to 2009 was caused by precisely this factor. In view of this, the existing framework for fiscal monetary discipline will be reenforced as follows and this is what the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development has to do:
- It will maintain a cash budgeting framework to minimise the fiscal In line with this call, it will be noted that Government has a cash surplus of $3,1 billion as at the end of February, 2020. Those are the facts and we will spend this money.
- We will project revenue and expenditure for the full financial year and announce the Treasury Bill issuances per calendar if such financing is required in the first place.
- Ensure that all Treasury Bill issuances for open market operations will be approved by the Monetary Policy Committee. I want to be clear on this. The Treasury Bills for what we call open market operations are not normal Treasury Bills for Government borrowings. These are Treasury Bills that the Central Bank issues to mop up excess liquidity in the market so that we stabilise the value of the currency. So they do not need any approval from the Ministry of Lands but just from the MPC, it is a normal monetary policy operation.
- Ministry of Finance will also smooth the expenditure disbursements so that large or lumpy Z$ payments are bunched which will obviously disrupt the foreign exchange market. We know what has happened in the past. We honoured as Government a payment to a contractor. The contractor found opportunity in the market with their compatriots and they pushed up the exchange rate trading in the power market. That has to stop. So all these payments will be smoothed so that we do not have a bullet
payment or demand on to the market and any deviation there will be strong sanctions and penalties from now on. Trust me.
- To underpin the use of the Z$ by implementing payment of all taxes, duties, fees and other Government payments in Z$ in a phased but time-bound manner.
Let me again turn back to the RBZ on these other supporting measures. The Central Bank will terminate the gold incentive facility once this reuters system becomes fully operational and we feel that the rates are converging.
Listen clearly now, from now on banks have to introduce a minimum interest rate for all deposits including trust accounts underpinning mobile banking wallets. This is to incentivise savings and to encourage the holding of the domestic currency. It is a serious anomaly that depositors do not receive any interest for their deposits. Where does this happen except here? It has to stop and we need a minimum interest rate. If this is not done, I will legislate an interest rate, a minimum deposit rate.
We will mop up excess liquidity being held by corporates and large holders of Z$ in the banking system by introducing and I am repeating here Mr. Speaker Sir, the open market operations corporate Bills with attractive features. There are additional regulatory measures to buttress this package of measures to ensure that the economic measures outlined above, certain regulatory changes will also be put into effect as a matter of urgency;
I want to turn back to the issue of penalties Mr. Speaker Sir. Our laws and enforcement regime are not as effective as they should when it comes to crime relating to foreign exchange and financial fraud. The current legal and institutional framework relating to curbing of trading in the parallel market is quite inadequate. Government will be reviewing all the laws and institutional frameworks in order to bring them into line with international best practice, more importantly to monitor the effectiveness of institutions tasked with implementing the laws. The statutes framework for legal foreign currency trading by which I mean penalties, will be enhanced to provide for a range of effective proportionate in order to be decisive in terms of this kind of behaviour, including more stringent criminal, civil and administrative penalties.
Let me now turn to mobile money platforms. While mobile money platforms have made a significant contribution to facilitating trade and payments in the country, they have also become an instrument which is being used by unscrupulous people, businesses to illegally trade foreign exchange and undermine the economic policy. The Reserve Bank is therefore currently reviewing all the regulations covering such platforms and in particular, it is intended to place a limit on daily bulk payer transactions.
On number two, we will ensure compliance with the 2% intermediated money transfer tax on bulk payers. What I have noticed is that we gave exemptions for bulk payers Mr. Speaker Sir, for social transfers, NGOs and so forth, things that are important for supporting the vulnerable in our society. There has been some non compliance for other bulk payers in paying the 2% money transfer tax and that has to be adhered to. This needs to be dealt with, we will enforce that.
Additionally, the daily returns being submitted by the mobile platforms to the Financial Intelligence Unit of the Reserve Bank of
Zimbabwe need to be scrutinised very carefully by the Currency Stabilisation Task Force to ensure that all transactions are legitimate and are in accordance with the financial regulations that are in place.
Finally, I would like to state that as financial authorities of the country, it is our duty Mr. Speaker Sir, to understand a strong communications drive to explain all the measures we are introducing and their intended outcomes, otherwise misinformation from the social media begins to rule the day. I can assure you Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Members that Government is determined to show strong leadership as is being exemplified by our own President E. D. Mnangagwa. We work closely with all stakeholders to achieve exchange rate stability to reduce inflation so that by the end of the year we will put the necessary building blocks to achieve high rates of growth and poverty reduction and move closer towards achieving the goals of Vision 2030. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Hon. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the esteemed Minister of Finance and Economic Development for the Statement that he has just presented today which is a mere reproduction of the statement he read out this afternoon to members of the press.
Hon. Speaker, we predicted on the 13th February, 2020 that
Government was going to float the exchange rate but Mr. Speaker Sir, you can float the exchange rate or control the exchange rate as long as there is no productivity. As long as we are not generating sufficient exports to generate foreign currency which will in turn strengthen our local currency, it is a worst of time. The growth rate in 2019, according to the Minister’s own figures, were a disastrous minus 6.9%. Most bodies like the IMF, World Bank; the growth rate was minus 12%. In 2020 because of the unhappy rain season, productivity and growth rate will still be below at least minus 8%. So there is no productivity.
The second thing Hon. Speaker Sir, you cannot float the exchange rate if there is no free market of the exchange rate of foreign currency itself. As long as you have got export surrender requirements and as long as the Reserve Bank is capturing huge amounts of money that exporters are producing – in a few weeks time Hon. Speaker, the Tobacco Auction Floors are going to open. You know, I know and we know that the Reserve Bank is doing everything possible to capture the huge chunk of money that is going to be due to those tobacco farmers. So if you have got a restricted supply of foreign exchange, and an unfree market, you cannot expect a floated exchange rate to take place.
What is going to happen Hon. Speaker, is that the rate which today is trading at 1:40 is going to get to 1:100 very soon. Shortages are going to increase particularly shortages of fuel and electricity. We say to the Hon. Speaker, your move is going to hurt the poor because the poor including us Members of Parliament, our salaries have already been devalued to the extent that the rate is going to shoot up tomorrow from 1:40, 1:50 and to 1:60. Our pensions are also going to be devalued because pensions are expressed in ZIM dollars when everything else has not been indexed in US dollars.
Thirdly Mr. Speaker Sir, inflation is going to shoot up. As I am talking to you right now, the price of ten kilogramme of roller meal is now around $200, by the end of the week it will be around $400. So I urge the Hon. Speaker to take into account the fact that a currency is a function of two things. It is a relationship between your exports and your imports. As the current case right now, we have got a deficit in our current account, to every dollar of foreign currency that comes in as export earnings; four dollars are going out as imports. The equation is not balancing.
Again Hon. Speaker, a currency is a function of confidence. There is no confidence in my brother, the esteemed Minister of Finance and Economic Development. There is no confidence in the Reserve Bank and Dr. John Mangudya. This move could have a chance if you were going to shut the Reserve Bank and chase away Dr. Mangudya. You know him, I know him; it will not work. So I just want to say to my esteemed friend that; do the right thing, repeal 33/2019 and 142/2019, allow the two currencies to co-exist. Let the market settle on the exchange rate. Encourage productivity, eliminate export surrender requirements, budget deficits and the rogue printing of money by the Reserve Bank. Hon. Speaker, I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. CHIKWINYA: Allow me Mr. Speaker to share my
displeasure as has been shared before that the Hon. Minister should have availed himself during question and answer time. Anyway, I want to thank the Leader of the House for giving us this opportunity. Mr. Speaker, I want clarifications on the following, what is the Reuters system and how does it work? I am sure I am going to be having the burden of explaining to my constituents, therefore, I would want the Hon. Minister to be able to explain that.
The second issue is that in simplified terms, can the Hon. Minister explain to us what the current measures are with regards to the intermarket exchange rate? Does it mean that the exchange rate has been liberalised to the extent that the market forces are going to determine its value, in simple language?
Thirdly, the Hon. Minister speaks of time bound. He is saying these measures are going to be implemented in consideration of sometime bound, what is the time? Lastly, he speaks of the gold incentive facility which he is going to terminate. Did I hear him correct to the extent that he is envisaging a situation whereby the 55:45 retention scheme is going to be terminated? I just want clarity on that extent because there have been concerns that we are not remitting enough gold to Fidelity because the miners are finding displeasure in the 45:55 retention scheme. Therefore, they are surrendering their gold to the black market.
As I sit, may the Hon. Minister find time on a good day, perhaps not today, what is the value of declaring that Zimbabwe has a surplus cash of ZW$3 billion yet we have an abundance of shortages of basic commodities? On a good day, may he be able to tell us the rationale to declare a surplus of cash when our parents, relatives and us are queuing daily to access the same cash. May I take this opportunity as guided by the Leader of the House, as you answer me, this was not in your Ministerial Statement of course but we had raised concern that there is one of the principles of cash shortage? First, you have set a limit to $300 per week. Because of the new dynamics in the market, the $300 is now too low regarding the pricing regime out there. When are you going to review the same? Secondly, people are being given cash which is defaced, some which is torn and some which does not look nice in the hands of the banks or the business person. It does not look new, it is frail and old. Business is rejecting this money, banks are also rejecting this money but they would have given you the client. If I am given $300 for example and $150 is defaced, it means I am going to use in essence $150 and I am left with your papers which are useless to me. What is the Government policy with regards to banks accepting that money back or business accepting that money for the purposes of transaction? I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have two points of clarity. The first one Mr. Speaker is the issue of termination of incentives. It is my thinking that the incentives were going to the gold buyers as opposed to the gold producers. Would this then mean that the monies that were incentivising the gold buyers as opposed to the producers will now be directed as an incentive to the producers? If it is so, if he can say it, it is my view that it is applaudable because the person that is producing, the hen that lays the golden egg is supposed to benefit.
The second issue Mr. Speaker Sir, I would still want to know what further measures have been put in place by the Monetary Policy to make sure that the only tradable commodity that brings us forex which is gold and other resources continue to thrive and continue to be produced in ubiquitous amounts as opposed to thwarting that industry completely by de-incentivising it. What measures are there in place further to the 55:45 percent? Are there measures that would up the scale in terms of exchange rate on the 45:55 that Government would have put in place in order that the artisanal and small scale miners and everybody that is in the gold production sector can see reason to increase the deliveries; aware that this is the only tradable commodity that can store value, that
is currently giving us what we have now, so that we use what we have to get what we want.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Mr. Speaker Sir. Mine is around what has been said around the exchange rate; just to understand what that means, I hear you are saying the Bureau De changes will operate five percent plus, what rate are we talking about? If I go on google now, the one that is shown is your Old
Mutual one and it is already on 50, which one are we talking about? Are we talking about the 18 as controlled by RBZ or are we talking about the real rate as indicated currently in terms of our market?
The second one is to do with the issues of social protection, given what has happened with the floating of the rate. For example, one of the things we were talking about this afternoon was the issue around examination fees. Is Government going to say, given the budget that has been increased, they are going to put certain resources directly to ensure that we are not increasing the burden to people. This floating rate will literally take off any money that people have as disposables in terms of their salaries.
The last one is to do with the cost of fuel. If we are going to be floating the exchange rate, what is happening in terms of the cost to fuel? Are we going to continue as Government giving a subsidy? For example, we know we are at $18.50 in terms of what you get at the pump but given where we are now, by tomorrow we will probably be at $40 in terms of the exchange rate. Is Government now saying they will subsidise fuel at $18 yet the real cost per litre is going to be $40. How is that going to operate? Thank you very much.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is the first time that I really do not know what to say but it is like I am in a bus. The economy of this country is like you are in a bus and it has no driver and you are just praying that it does not overturn. If it stops, you do not even know whether it is fuel, whether you are going to get there or not. You are just praying yet there is no driver. You are hoping that if it overturns, you will also survive and keep going. There is absolutely nothing to talk about this economy. We can come up with different terms, Havard...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you seek
clarification please?
HON. T. MLISWA: You know Mr. Speaker Sir, the economy is
like a river where it is flowing. Allow the water to flow. Allow it to dictate its direction. Do not try to divert the water because that diversion is not as powerful as the main river. At the end of the day, it will have a direction. What I am talking about is liberalisation. Clarity is sought, you have got the Monetary Policy Committee at Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. You have got the Currency Stabilization Task Force, how many of these are we going to have? We have got the Reserve Bank which is the monetary authority, so it oversees all these but we keep on setting up all these task forces and all that. To me, what is it that the
Monetary Policy Committee have done and failed? Why are we going to the Currency Stabilization Task Force again? You have got the issue of the interbank, Hon. Speaker Sir, the rate is at 40 and the interbank is at 18, there is no way any of us here can really say it has worked, it has not worked. I think what this does is it gives an opportunity to really say when I got into this office, I never thought things were this bad or things were like this – [HON. BITI: But they were better.]-
Now we have a situation where the rate is going up and there is no control. Statutory Instruments are the order of the day, every day there is a Statutory Instrument, it has never achieved anything and it creates panic. The moment you put these stabilisation task forces, there is panic already. You have a situation where the gold facility, let me say this, you have removed incentives. Why are you giving one Indian who is from Kenya, Pastor Paul incentives and not Zimbabweans? Who has instructed that? What is so special about an Indian from Kenya getting all incentives for gold? The gold buyers of this country are now being told to give him, who is in it Minister, who has done that? That answer I want to know. Are you the one who gave the only Indian that incentive where he is given foreign currency and yet you are expecting the local people in this country to buy gold using RTGs which is impossible?
So, to me this is where the problem is, there is a monopoly again in gold. We have a system of monopolies, we have a monopoly in gold and cartels all over. I would like to know on that. Why are you limiting people from getting their money from banks? We were told that there will be money in the banks, Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no money in the banks up to today. The queues are still there, we have liberalised people to go and get any amount they want from the cash point and we are not doing that. If you go to Nigeria, no matter how bad the rate is, when you go to the automated teller machine, you still get their Naira and if you go to Ghana you still get their currency but to us, there is still no cash but you are putting a limit – [AN HON. MEMBER: Aaa murume akoniwa uyu.] – Why are we then putting a limit when the cash is not there?
Finally, Mr. Speaker Sir, the tobacco farmers were supposed to get their 50% incentive but they never got their money. The production which we were talking about can only happen if we are incentivising our farmers. This Government is paying more for maize than giving their local farmers. They are prepared to pay RTGS400 or RTGS375 per tonne yet you are paying the farmers less than that. Which economy can produce when the farmers are being paid less yet we are prepared to pay more for GMOs yet our own farmers are not incentivised and we are not giving them what they are supposed to get.
So, how can we talk about production at the end of the day? Gold is the same again where the Indian, Pastor Paul is getting the foreign currency and the blacks are getting RTGs? Finally, there is absolutely no ways, I do not know where this is coming from, the Minister is somebody who when he came in everybody had hope, I do not know with the fellow colleague Ministers who are here even in Cabinet or ministries; are you getting what you are supposed to get? I then ask what is the point of Cabinet being there talking about monetary policy because the Cabinet is not even doing anything. There is nothing that we are getting, we are hopeless Mr. Speaker. We are hopeless as a people and as Members of Parliament. On our own salaries, you are the people who introduced interbank rates. Why are you not giving us our salaries at interbank rates? We have no issues with that but still you do not. For how long can people suffer like this and surely when is God going to come? We do not even know when he is going to come again. I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will be very brief.
Could the Minister please clarify why he is setting limits to the bulk payer of Ecocash for example? Export businesses whose foreign currency he relies on, use bulk payer to honour his need for cashless transfers of salaries and wages particularly to farm employees and rural employees who do not have access to bank accounts. What is the rationale? He talks every time about reducing inflation. I have asked him and the Reserve Bank Governor, inflation is supply and demand and foreign currency is in short supply, there is no doubt. Many things are in short supply. Until you can resolve that imbalance in all the situations of supply and demand, how do you actually expect to control inflation? I thank you.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to understand from the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that, as people are suffering in this country and are at the stage that we have now reached that it is now uncontrollable; when do we expect him to resign because that is the only solution? I thank you.
HON. MUSHAYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Minister as a woman from Kuwadzana, there is the inter-market rate, there is DFI and there is free funds. Why not just bring back the dollar so that we understand what is it that we are dealing with?
Secondly, given the situation that is in this country particularly in terms of salaries for civil servants, what is it that you are going to do to make sure that after the interbank has hit inflation rate, you are going to increase their salaries and make sure they can just afford to live above the poverty datum line. Thank you.
HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my first question
Mr. Speaker, I heard the Hon. Minister saying the Monetary Policy Committee has done a sterling job and he introduced this Committee around September 2019. Five months down the line, he is getting another Committee, what sterling job have they done? They were meant to do stabilisation of the exchange rate and he is creating another Committee on top of a failed committee. On a serious note, what sterling job have they done, especially with regards to inflation? Let him say, in September inflation rate was this, in November it was this and in December 2019, it was this, to-date. I think it is very important so that he can then justify that NPC committee has done its job well.
Secondly, is there no conflict of roles? NPC is going to be a subset of the currency stabilisation committee. Why? Is there no conflict of roles there? The Minister is talking about free funds. Who has the free funds? Are they not the cartels who have the free funds? Can he explain where the free funds are and how much is in the free fund vote? On the issue of DFI, here is mono-currency and on the other side we are talking of free funds that are in forex. Is there no policy inconsistency there? We are saying let us expedite mono-currency and on the other side we are talking of free funds in forex.
Hon. Speaker Sir, the Minister is talking of interest rate of bond notes. Of course it is welcome, like you said where have you seen this.
He has been the Minister and has been presiding over this failure. What is the interest rate of zero? This is because you are putting an interest rate on a zero, so the answer is zero. Maybe he can clarify on the issue of putting an interest rate on a bond note which is failing. Surely, I thought it was going to give hope to say the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is giving a Ministerial Statement and he was going to review the maximum withdrawal of $300. He is saying nothing about that. I think he needs to give us a timeline on when he is going to review the maximum withdrawal. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. My point
of order is that the Minister is brilliant but these are about ten questions. It is only proper no matter how brilliant he is, we also have a memory we would want to seek clarity. I think if he answers this bit, the rest can come in so that there is an impact. No matter how brilliant he is, we are not as brilliant as he is. Hon. Biti’s possed a plethora of questions.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Minister has informed me
that he wants all the questions – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. T. MLISWA: No, no. It is impossible because he has a memory. The reason I am saying this – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. May the
Hon. Minister respond to the questions?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I thank the Hon. Members for their questions. Let me start with questions and comments from Hon. Biti where he said that in the statement and in the measures I did not deal with the supply side or the productivity side. That was not the intention, actually. If I can explain …
HON. SARUWAKA: Point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. SARUWAKA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have been trying to
reconcile what Hon. Mliswa said about the brilliance of the Minister. Can he please withdraw that because it is not really showing in the manner he is managing the portfolio – [Laughter.] – He cannot be a brilliant Minister with these results. Can Hon. Mliswa withdraw –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. T. MLISWA: I think Mr. Speaker Sir, I said no matter
how brilliant. The decision is yours whether he is brilliant or not.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you once again Mr. Speaker
Sir. Let me start with the questions and comments from Hon. Biti. He commented that I did not focus on production, perhaps supply side.
That was not even my intention. I had no intentions of doing that. What I did was, in the budget Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member will recall that in the budget that I presented for 2020, we spent a lot of time talking about productivity, growth and job creation. That roadmap has already been set. What we are doing today is something different, which is to deal with the efficiency and effectiveness of the foreign exchange pricing system. It is very clear, directed and it is very narrow.
The second point is on the supply side and productivity side. He is well aware that this country has no shortage of foreign currency in terms of the quantum of supply. In 2018, our export proceeds were about $6.4 billion, in 2019 we had almost $7 billion, which is almost equal to the demand. So, the supply of forex is not the problem. The problem is the system that allocates prices in foreign currency and that is what we are fixing.
He made another comment regarding gross rate of -8% in 2020. Our projection is the gross rate in 2020 is a +3%. It is premised on a more accommodative fiscal policy and on a more accommodative policy regarding the supportive productive sector. It is also premised on a slightly better rainy season compared to last year. It is also premised on better energy supply, we have said all those issues have timed out. Who expected coronavirus? Who knows the exact impact? We will look into that but we are expecting a positive rate of growth. If you look at the projections from the IMF, they have a projection of 0.8%; not -8% as purported by the Hon. Member. The Hon. Member is projecting a rate of growth of 2.7% and we are projecting 3%. The AFDB is projecting above 4%. Those are the projections by experts in this business.
Coming to the comment that free market does not exist, we have got to surrender and so forth. I said the whole discussion here was about creating a freer market on the exchange rate. So I do not understand what the objection is when in fact we are doing exactly what he is commenting on. He tried to argue that indeed the parallel rate is causing inflation. We have already stated this and everyone knows this. Here is stating the obvious and that is the obvious that we are trying to deal with by stabilizing the exchange rate so that it does not feed into inflation.
HON. BITI: Hon. Speaker Sir, we ask that the Minister responds to the issues that are put to him, not the issues that he recreates and then answers himself. The point we made is very simple. The floating exchange rate or a liberalized exchange rate will not work if there is no productivity. Every figure, every statistic, the economic intelligence unit for instance, put our growth rate for 2020, to minus 13%. So, there is no productivity in Zimbabwe, how is it going to work. Number 2, the floating exchange rate will not work if the supply of foreign exchange is not free, the Reserve Bank is taking people’s money through export surrender requirement – it will not work. So, our basic point is that, do not disturb people’s money, just repeal 142, 33 and dollarize. Can you answer that question?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): l must say I have
understood the questions very well and I was dealing with them one by one. The comment that was also made was that there is a current account deficit; the implication is that perhaps we have failed to control this. I want to make it clear that we do not have a current account deficit. In fact, if you look at the IMF reports, they indicate that last year we had a current account surplus and I have explained this before this august House.
Let me then switch to the questions and comments by Hon. Chikwinya who wanted to know about the workings of the Reuters system; this of course, is very technical-[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Members those who are not satisfied with the Minister’s answers, there is going to be a second round. Can you allow the Minister to proceed?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Let me go to the question by the Hon. Chikwinya about the technical workings of the Reuters system but first of all let me say I invite him to visit our authorities and see for himself how it works and ask all the questions. He is free to do that. However, it is a system that will allow banks to put in place bids in terms of the quantum demand of their foreign currency at whatever price and that is feasible to all. Those on the other side, who are suppliers of the forex, can then respond, then you have got that bid, you can see what price it is in terms of the bids and the offers. You can also see what quantum of forex is being demanded on both sides of the screen. I am just simplifying it but the Hon. Member is free to spend time with the Central Bank; you are allowed to do that, it is your Central Bank after
all.
You asked about time bound and so forth; definitely in terms of phasing the USD payments for Government fees and so forth, we are looking at a period of 6 to 12 months to phase these payments into Zimbabwe dollars.
On the gold incentives which have been asked by several
Members, however, I think Hon. Chikwinya, you mixed up two things. One is the surrender requirement issue of 55 to 45 and then the gold incentive, those are two different things. On the gold incentive; this is an incentive which was mentioned by Hon. Mliswa to gold traders and not producers and this is what is being terminated for the reasons that were eloquently explained by Hon. Mliswa.
Hon. Chikwinya is very unhappy that I mentioned that we are in a positive cash balance for February; I mentioned this to let him know that we are not in deficits. We have left the era of deficits and these resources will be spent on our people, health, education and roads. We have created the strength and the muscle to spend responsibly on our social services and our citizens.
On the cash limits; I agree with him and I also agree with those who have raised issues around the cash limit, that should be reviewed and I will speak to the Reserve Bank to make sure that we can review so that our citizens can access a higher level of their cash to deal with the inflation challenges.
On defaced notes; again I have taken note to make sure that the Central Bank can assist with this. New notes can be used to replace the defaced notes.
I am going back to comments by Hon. Nduna on gold incentives that we are terminating this gold incentive as a support for the middle man, the traders. Will replace it with a more productive form of funding which is gold fund that can really support and capacitate producers. That will work well in this regard but also make sure that there is one trading system. This fund will also capacitate the gold centres which will be used for procuring this gold through Fidelity and we strengthen Fidelity Control System.
Those reference to the old Mutual rate by Hon. MisiharabwiMushonga; this is not an official rate, we are aware it is out there, it is a result of taking advantage of the frangibility of the stock and trying to compare what the prices, domestically compared to internationally in trying to then deduce an implied exchange rate for the Zimbabwe dollar from that. That is just an analyst job who analysis and then post that rate; it is not an official rate. I have often said that this rate really does not reflect reality on the ground and in fact it overstates the exchange
rate.
On social protection fees; she is right to point out on this issue that; remember we put a cap on these examination fees so they remain affordable and as Government we provide the resources to keep these fees affordable and subsidized especially for our rural folk.
On the floating rate, it is not just a floating rate but a managed rate to make sure that it does not run away unnecessarily, it does not over price the risk premium. The problem with a freely floating exchange rate is that it overprices the risk premium and therefore overstates the exchange rate as is the case right now.
Hon. Mliswa was clear about what he thinks, perhaps is the overlapping jurisdiction, the task force, the MPC RBZ, the issue here is to facilitate coordination on a specific issue which is currency stabilisation. That is why we created this board to coordinate the MPC/RBZ/PAC on this currency stabilisation. It is necessary; I can tell you that the few times we have met it has been very productive. This has worked very well. Then on the gold incentives, I will not say more. He has said it all and that is what we are correcting. On cash limits, I will not say more.
On tobacco, he said that the tobacco farmers have not received their United States dollar component of the payments, I thought they did. I will check on this, but also we want to make sure that since the season is coming the farmers get their fair share of their produce.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. This is what even Hon. Watson was saying that the tobacco farmers who are the small scale farmers have no bank accounts, so where was the foreign currency going to go to? It is not on ecocash, it is not anywhere. They were never given their money. We had preferred a situation where those who do not have bank accounts are given cash at the floors. I just thought I would enlighten you on that.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: On a point of order Mr.
Speaker Sir. Minister, I think you left out the issue around the fuel subsidy. What is going to happen given the fact that we are at 18? Are you going to continue with the subsidy or are they going to continue having changes around the cost of the fuel depending on where we are floating?
HON. M. NCUBE: Again, I want to thank Hon. Mliswa for clarifying that issue. It is my understanding that the tobacco farmers have bank accounts. They were assisted to open two bank accounts - one nostro account and the other domestic currency. So their respective payments could be made into those current accounts. If there are any farmers who do not have bank accounts, we must assist them to open bank accounts so that they can be banked rather than remain unbanked. It is not good that they remain unbanked. They should be netted into the financial system.
On the important question around fuel, I do not want to speculate as what will happen to the fuel price. You know what happens when you speculate, but all I can say is that we will endeavour to price fuel at the fair market price of fuel. That is all I can say without saying too much lest it starts running away and we complain about the inflation again.
Looking at the limits of bulk payers and so forth, we have to limit this so that we make sure that those who are making such payments do not end up playing in the parallel market or when they do then it has a huge impact on the parallel market. That is the reason that we are doing this, but also we want to make sure that those who were not exempted from the 2% intermediated money transfer tax should comply and pay the tax.
I think Hon. Murai – it is women’s month, so she opened very well
as a woman from Kuwadzana and we applaud – [Laughter] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is Hon. Mushayi, a woman from Kuwadzana. I am pleased that she emphasised that it is a woman from Kuwadzana. It is after all a woman’s month, but the point she raised was that she said Minister, bring back the United States dollar. Let me explain. She already has an FCA account.
HON. MUSHAYI: I do not.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: If she does not, she is allowed to have an FCA account where she can keep United States dollars. She is also allowed to keep United States dollars under her pillow or anywhere. So in reality what we have is, we have the United States dollar being held by our citizens but we have said that in terms of transacting in the shops, convert those dollars into domestic currency and transact. Chii chakaipa ipapo? Hapana chakaipa apo – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Honourables, order
please.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: There is an Honourable Member who repeated the comments around the task force and I think I have responded to other Hon. Members that this is necessary for coordination and for us to focus on the specific issue of currency stabilization. I think that it is going to do a sterling job, Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you.
HON. MUSHAYI: Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Minister did not deal with the question that I asked about increasing salaries for civil servants.
It was not dealt with.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. Hon. Minister
there seems to be something that you left. Can you respond to that? *HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Hon. Minister left out an important issue on tobacco farmers. Most tobacco farmers come from the rural areas and they do not have FCA accounts and they also do not have access to mobile banking facilities. Minister, please listen so that you hear where the problem is. This issue concerns the welfare of those farmers in the rural areas. They are suffering.
When the small scale farmers engage in tobacco farming they are affected by the issue of mobile banking and foreign currency accounts. Your Ministry should give them 50% of their earnings through tobacco sales in United States dollars and the rest is given in bank notes but they are not being given this money. Instead they are given RTGS. When they go to buy things in shops they are then charged 30% after having worked so hard.
HON. T. ZHOU: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. You can go
ahead.
*HON. T. ZHOU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I think the Hon. Speaker made a ruling that Hon. Members were not allowed to use their cell phones to record proceedings in the House during debates. Hon. Saruwaka was using his cell phone to record what was taking place in the House– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*HON. KARENYI: What about Minister Mutodi who is recording proceedings using his cell phone? Right now, it is on the table and he is recording.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: To cut a long story short Hon. Minister,
my plea is that let us get rid of the suffering that the tobacco farmer is experiencing. The 50% that you are paying him as RTGS, the tobacco farmer is not getting value for money out of that because before he or she uses that money, he or she has a loss of 30%. You should correct that anomaly. Over and above that, you are giving him 50% United States dollars in the form of RTGS and you are using interbank rate which is at Government rate. The interbank rate when they buy from the shop is half of what he is realising on the streets. That should be redressed. He wants to pay for the chemicals that he paid at a higher premium and he also wants to pay the workers. You are not taking that into consideration as regards the tobacco farmer. You are seriously oppressing him/her. I thank you.
HON. MOLOKELA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I really feel sad as a citizen of this country because when we are discussing matters of the economy or finance, we are discussing issues that are affecting everyone in this country. What I have heard this afternoon so far is not addressing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members there.
HON. MOLOKELA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was saying, when we are talking about issues of finance and the economy, we are talking about everyday issues that affect everyone in this country including us as Hon. Members. So when we are discussing these issues, we must get serious and the level of lack of seriousness that I have seen this afternoon is really shocking. Do we discuss issues of finance out of a context of reality on the ground or not? What I want the Minister…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, what is your
clarification?
HON. MOLOKELA: I wanted the Minister of Finance to explain why it is possible for people outside; if you go down the road 300 metres near Meikles Hotel, we have got fellow Zimbabweans who have got wads of cash. I wanted the Minister of Finance why it is possible, with the $300 bank limit that we have, to have those people on the ground? Why is it possible, where do they get that money from? If he is the Minister of Finance, why is he clueless on the source of the money because they are brand new notes? I have seen brand new notes from those people. I wanted the Minister to clarify that.
Secondly, the Minister of Finance should explain why it is possible for Zimbabweans to pay in US$ when all the rules and regulations and the salaries are in RTGS. Where do they expect an ordinary Member of Parliament like me to have money in US$, how do I get that money? As things stand right now, the only source of that money is on the parallel market. What I am worried about is, there is a gap between where the Minister of Finance is and where the people on the ground are. The only reason why the Minister is coming up with statutory instrument after another, task force after another is because he does not seem to understand what is happening on the ground. The only way forward for the Minister of Finance is to resign immediately – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, sometimes – I am actually very short right now…
Hon. Molokela having been speaking at the top of his voice
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Molokela, order please –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Mr. Speaker [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order please [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members, order please.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Mr. Speaker, thank you for the time you have given me. Hon. Members, I would like to point out that, remember how people are struggling. I am sure all of us have been to our Committee hearings and we have been around the country and seen how much people are suffering on the ground and they are expecting solutions from this House. However, this kind of behaviour is not going to get us anywhere [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Mr. Speaker, I am not here [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chief Whip, can you
remove Hon. Molokela from that side. Hon. Molokela, go that side.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I believe the Speaker of the House said it once, please let us act honourably. I need to say a point here. Mr. Speaker, I did not come to Parliament for partisan business, I came here because there are serious issues in this country. I am hoping that maybe once I am speaking [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order please.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Because the issues we are discussing are very serious Mr. Speaker [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member there, order
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MATEWU: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker Sir, we expect that you show this House, you cannot sit there and leave them to make the noise [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Please act like a Chairperson; you are the Chair today, act like a Chair. You are the Speaker, you cannot leave – do not put your candidate business in here and leave them do what they want [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Sit down [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members, order please [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. S. SITHOLE: Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that these opposition people, when they are asking questions to the Minister, they must not ask questions whilst they are fighting. When they are behaving like that, we are going to give an order to say the Minister must not answer them. You are not the majority in this House. We are the majority as the ruling party. We cannot be treated by the opposition like this. The Minister cannot answer more questions from racists – people who are given questions by the Americans. I am appealing to you Mr.
Speaker to take your position and chuck them out - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. Order! Hon.
Members order please. I asked the Chief Whips to assist me and they did so. Can we proceed?
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Thank you for defending me Mr.
Speaker - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Right now, I
am sure ....
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order please.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Right now Mr. Speaker, I am pretty sure
that the President is waiting for the report that the Minister will have from Parliament. I was saying I do not come to Parliament on issues of party agendas. I am here so that we fix the country - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order
please. Hon. Member, I will chuck you out. Order Hon. Members. Let him proceed please - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Can you allow the Hon. Member to finish please?
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: I know that there are sensitivities when I come up and speak. I like to use analogies when I speak. When you look at the country right now, you will see that the President is the coach, the Minister here is our striker and the rest of us - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Allow
him to finish.
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: The rest of us in here are just players.
The Ministers are playing the ball and they are passing it to the Minister.
We are all giving the Minister guidance...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zhou, I will chase
you out. Can you be orderly?
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: When the party leadership or Parliament
gives the Minister guidance, it is sort of giving him the ball to just score but then when he does not score, everyone else suffers because of that. I am shocked sometimes when the Minister comes in here and he pats himself on the back saying how good of a job he is doing but if you look at the situation in the country right now, I do not think we can say that a good job is being done.
Let us be honest with ourselves sometimes – people are waiting outside there for a response and guidance from us but we are going out there and just telling them lies. There is no fuel, there is no money at the banks - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your clarification?
HON. TSVANGIRAYI: Mr. Speaker, let me say it. The Minister is saying there is budget surplus but we are not seeing the essence of that budget surplus. I am hoping that when the Minister goes to the head of state and says President, this is what is going down in the country, he is telling the truth because right now we are not seeing that on the ground.
That is all I wanted to say. When we come here, let us speak the truth,
HON. TOGAREPI: On a point of order - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, it has been said that the Hon.
Member has finished debating. The issues that we are discussing here should not resemble a rally. I just wanted to say that … – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Tsunga having stood up to pose a question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order,
order Hon. Member, may you sit down. Let the Hon. Minister respond.
Hon. Minister may you respond please.
* HON. PROF. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank Hon. Mutseyami for his question where he said that there are tobacco farmers who do not have FCA Accounts. What we are going to do is to assist them in opening FCA Accounts so that we can deposit their money. He also said that we are paying others in RTGs and that there are conmen who are cheating them when purchasing goods.
HON. MBONDIAH: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, with all due respect Hon. Chair, FCA accounts cannot be opened just like that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - It is not easy to open an FCA account for someone who is coming from a rural area like
Chiendambuya or Zhombe to come and open an FCA account. There
are serious requirements that are needed. The Hon. Minister must take us seriously. We are not children Hon. Speaker. Thank you. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order,
order Hon. Members please! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Hon. Members order, order!
*HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Mr. Speaker Sir, if I may proceed. The Ruling party as Government will assist them in opening these accounts. As Government we have such authority to do so.
I will now switch to English in responding to the next question since it was asked in English. The review of the $300.00, we will certainly look into that – that has been overtaken by inflation and that is a very valid point. The same Hon. Member asked a question about where these free funds are coming from. Frankly, free funds are from everywhere and everyone. Frankly, we do not have to know where they are coming from. He mentioned that perhaps it could be from cartels – I do not know but what we want to do is to put in a policy that will allow for the use of free funds in specific areas such as fuel, grain imports and so forth because we did not think that it was important for us to know where these free funds are coming from.
However, if we suspect that these free funds are being sourced from illicit and money laundering activities, certainly we will act within the law and with the Financial Intelligence Unit whose job it is to help us act on these kind of cases.
Then there was a question from Hon. Member of Kuwadzana – I do not think that she is here. She asked me a question regarding civil servants salaries. I must say that we continue to support our civil servants on the issue of their perks and living standards and we have negotiated to increase their salaries by 140% so far. I have been before this House to say that we always stand ready to keep negotiating and cushioning our civil servants – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - In the last few weeks, the Public Service Commission, I must say, legally it is their duty to do so, have mentioned that they are going to introduce a scheme that is going to support civil servants by making sure that they can now borrow going forward at affordable interest rates and not the sort of interest rates that loan sharks are charging. All that will go a long way in cushioning our civil servants. I thank you.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND
TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA), the
House adjourned at Three Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 11th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
BILLS RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the
Senate that the following Bills have been transmitted from the National
Assembly and will be on Second Reading tomorrow, Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6A, 2019] and International Treaties Bill [H. B.
10A, 2019].
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: On a point of order Madam President. I
wanted to find out what our standards say in terms of Bills. These Bills that you are talking about were transmitted yesterday and today. So as Senators, how many days do we have to look at Bills that have been amended by the National Assembly? I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I thought you are
asking because you had not yet gone through the Bills but the Bills were distributed into your pigeon holes the same time they were distributed to the National Assembly.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Yes, another point of order so that I can explain myself. When Bills are transmitted to the Lower House, they are debated at the Lower House, amended, taken back to the
Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC), amended, taken back to the Lower House, read secondly and then they are passed. When they come this side, they come to the Senate after they have been amended. So as Senators, we need to look at the amended copy and have time to look at the adjustments that have been done in the Lower House and see whether those adjustments are consistent with what was agreed in the Lower House and then have our own debate on the adjusted Bill, not to be given two days to look at Bills that have been amended. Thank you. THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Since we are Senators,
we should be in a position to understand that whatever Bill is passed in the National Assembly, it is obvious that it comes to the Senate. So while you are following up what is happening, already you will be in a position to know what you want to debate, when it comes here. You will be following the debate; you are allowed to take from the Hansard of the National Assembly if you did not manage to follow the debate, go through because you may need to contribute to whatever came up from the National Assembly. This is our duty of having these Houses.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 1 to 5 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Sixth Order read: Adjourn debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 12th March, 2020.
MOTION
RESUMPTION OF DEBATE ON WOMEN POLITICAL LEADERS
GLOBAL FORUM
Seventh Order read: Resumption of Debate on Motion on the
Report of the Women Political Leaders Global Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Madam President. Hon. Mabel Memory Chinomona, President of the Senate, led a Parliamentary delegation to the Women Political Leaders Global Forum held in Reykjavik, Iceland from 18 to 20 November 2019. The rest of the delegation comprised Hon. Members and Officers of Parliament.
2.0 OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONY
2.1 Ms. Katrín Jakobsdóttir, Prime Minister of Iceland officially opened the Forum.
2.2 In her remarks, she highlighted that the Forum was meant for women political leaders to share ideas and thoughts on making the world a better place for women and children.
2.3 She lamented the fact that no country in the world had managed to achieve full gender equality in line with Sustainable Development Goal Number 5.
2.4 The Prime Minister called upon all participants to observe the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action whose anniversary is in 2020 and popularise gender equality in their respective countries.
2.5 She emphasised on education and culture as means to achieve gender equality.
2.6 In his address to the delegates, the Mayor of Reykjavik, Mr. Dagur
Bergþóruson Eggertsson highlighted that gender equality is a
human right and important for all and it should involve all men, women and the youth.
2.7 He made reference to the quota system that is practiced in Iceland whereby positions in the corporate sector are reserved for women. He also referred to the 60 – 40 ratio men to women that exists in their current Parliament.
3.0 SETTING THE SCENE
3.1 The Forum opening ceremony was followed by a session meant to brainstorm and share ideas among women political leaders.
3.2 The main thrust of the session was to explore issues around equal opportunities for women, getting rid of stereotypes against women and correcting various misconceptions regarding women.
3.3 The session identified the following as the key strategies that women use in leadership:- courage, responsibility, fearlessness and empathy.
3.4 The women leaders agreed that leadership knows no gender and that all must lobby their respective Governments to have women participate in positions of leadership in both the private and public sector.
4.0 STRIVE FOR ZERO – ELIMINATE THE GENDER
PAY GAP
4.1 A session on addressing the gender pay gap where most delegates lamented the gender pay gap in their countries was convened.
4.2 The Zimbabwe delegation took the floor and highlighted that Zimbabwe has no salary or wage discrimination based on gender, much to the applause of the participants.
4.3 The women leaders lamented the fact that most executive positions in both the private and public sector are occupied by men, a scenario that must be addressed with urgency.
5.0 ACCESS TO FOOD FOR ALL
5.1 Plan International hosted a session that meant to discuss issues around access to food and water globally.
5.2 It was agreed that access to food and water was a basic human right that is also pronounced in the Sustainable Development Goals.
5.3 All participants hailed the job being done by Plan International whose presence across the world has alleviated poverty and addressed the challenge of school dropouts especially among girl children.
5.4 Emphasis was placed on female hygiene as well as creating safe spaces for young girls including involvement of young women in decision making.
6.0 GENERATION EQUALITY
6.1 A session meant to equip the leaders with knowledge on equality between men and women as also convened.
6.2 Concerns were raised that prior to the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action, gender issues were taboo in Africa and most parts of the world.
6.3 Although a lot is still to be done, the women leaders, observed that sturdy progress had been made in gender legislation mostly pushing for at least 40 % women in positions of leadership.
6.4 A clarion call was made for men to be involved in gender issues as champions for gender equality, if the gender equality dream is to be realised.
6.5 The women leaders applauded the influence of technology in women empowerment. Mobile money transfers for the small scale businesswomen, technology in the health sector were cited as examples.
7.0 GENDER BASED VIOLENCE
7.1 Women Parliamentary leaders were encouraged to influence gender sensitive laws to address gender equality and the fight against Gender Based Violence.
7.2 Concerns were raised over cases of GBV that go unreported, thus the need to raise awareness for victims to break the silence.
7.3 The meeting implored on all participants to lobby for free services for victims of GBV, including health and psycho – social support.
7.4 It was also observed that women need to be educated of their rights and to resist harmful practices such as genital mutilation, domestic violence, inheritance malpractices among others.
8.0 UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE
8.1 A session on Universal Health Coverage was convened during the meetings where Parliamentarians were reminded of the Universal
Health Coverage commitment by the United Nations Heads of
State.
8.2 The Inter – Parliamentary Union (IPU) commitment trough the
Belgrade Resolution was also highlighted with Members of Parliament being encouraged to facilitate that the commitment be transformed into action.
8.3 Concerns were raised that in some countries, women are reluctant to visit clinics to be attended by male nurses. In this regard, there is need to employ more women nurses as a way of empowering them and addressing the concern raised.
9.0 ADDRESSING MENSTRUAL HEALTH
9.1 A session coordinated by Afripads, a company specialising in manufacturing of reusable pads was convened with the aim to address menstrual health issues.
9.2 It was agreed that menstrual health is addressed in the SDGs and thus needs attention of Parliamentarians globally. .
9.3 The members agreed on the need to abide by the menstrual health guidelines for girls in schools.
9.4 Concerns were raised that menstrual health remains missing in funding, advocacy and policy development.
9.5 Members were urged to lobby their respective governments to remove tax on all sanitary wear and regulate pricing of sanitary
wear so as to improve access of sanitary wear among all communities.
10.0 CONCLUSION
10.1 Overally, the Forum helped Members to share experiences and learn best practices in improving the welfare of women in their countries so as to alleviate the various challenges that face women in their day to day life. Empowerment of women came out as a key element that needs to be inculcated in various legislation and policy formulation by governments. It is now incumbent upon the Parliament of Zimbabwe to consider the above deliberations from the Reykjavik Forum and debate women empowerment issues in Parliament for Government to consider.
11.0 RECOMMENDATIONS
RECOMMENDATION | ACTION BY |
Relentless lobbying for equality between men and women in a bid to rid the society of gender inequality and discrimination | Thematic Committee on Gender |
Encourage men to act as champions to push the gender agenda | All Senators |
Lobby Government to provide adequate access to food and education opportunities | Thematic Committee on Human Rights and Thematic Committee on Gender |
for both boys and girls | |
Lobby for Universal Health Coverage for all, without discrimination | Thematic Committee on Human Rights |
Lobby for tariff free importation of sanitary wear, as well as financial support and incentives for local manufacturers of sanitary wear | Thematic Committee on Human Rights |
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thematic Committee on Human
Rights to lobby for tariff free importation of sanitary wear as well as financial support and incentives for local manufacturers of sanitary wear. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. M. R. DUBE: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity. I am one of the people who went with the delegation to Iceland, Europe to Women’s Meeting on Global Forum. There were a lot of countries which sent women to this meeting and these women had complaints. The women said that the problem is that they do not support each other, that is why they had called for this meeting that we stress that women support each other. They complained a lot that if men support us even if other women do not support us, we might rise even if we have support from men.
The women complained that they wanted a 50% representation in everything and they said that we cannot keep on being beggars. Our governments must see to it that they have put it into law that we have 50% representation. We saw that women are being abused – gender based violence and others are disabled and are now on wheel-chairs because of violence, but they are not talking about it. All those things are troubling women all over the world. A man can beat a woman until she is disabled. What can we do that we cannot be disabled by the abuse?
A lot of people have been maimed and others do not have hands. Others were thrown from upstairs and some women from other countries were saying women were broken by being thrown out of flats. We went into Committees and the pay gap was discussed. They said a male white person is getting 100% pay while a woman is getting 80%. A black man is getting 60% and a black woman is getting 40%. They said this is very painful. Do not think that coming from these developing countries mean that women are getting good salaries, they are getting very low salaries compared to others. So we wanted to be assisted that we get enough salaries.
We were asked to explain what is happening in terms of pay gaps in our countries. We said in Zimbabwe we do not have a problem of pay gaps. In Zimbabwe they take someone on his/her merit, given his/her qualifications. If someone gets a job, we do a job evaluation to see what we are capable of doing. You are paid according to the work that you are doing. It has nothing to do with being white or black. You are paid on merit. That pay gap was done during Smith’s time.
My husband was a sergeant in the army and he was getting a low salary compared to a white person, but the Government improved that every soldier has to get the same salary. A lot of white soldiers resigned because they did not want to earn same salaries with black soldiers. We are saying as women that is very painful all over the world that we keep on having pay gaps. It is tough for people who will come after us if we do not stop the system. We said we will assist those other countries to stop that pay gap.
There were children who came and were raped from their countries. Some of them are now mentally disturbed but they were asked to talk to make sure that every woman in this world understands that if women are being abused, no one will know but they wanted the whole world to know that women are really being abused. I saw it myself that women are being abused. One of them was saying she was raped when she was young and now her body is not working well.
As you know our country’s first letter is Z. Ambassadors were being given time to talk and our Madam President was the last person speak because of Z the last letter, but she was able to explain very well. Everyone was like asking is this your President? Whenever the President of the Senate stood up to speak, they would just say she is on the spot and people would be asking where she is from. Hon. Sen. Tongogara would say she is ours and she is from Zimbabwe. So, we say well done.
I was so happy that women were crying with one voice and even other countries from Arab – they say when a woman is going for her periods she is not allowed to go to work. When a girl child/woman is on her menstruation cycle, she cannot go to school. So, they said women in Africa have to speak with one voice that this law is removed. If someone is menstruatind, she is not going to school for seven days. We said it is nature and we should not oppress people to that level.
In Zimbabwe we are in poverty but we have other laws which we do not have which are oppressive. We said we are better organised compared to other countries. We might fail to get all the things but in that area we are organised. We saw other companies which said they wanted to come to Zimbabwe.
Madam President talked about the girl child where she said we wanted sanitary wear. Other countries said if you talk to your Government, we would come to your country to open companies that will accept the girl child. What we always say in this Senate and the National of Assembly is going outside overseas whilst we are here.
We were told that Zimbabwe was number one in fighting for the girl child. We were supposed to be given a medal but our flight was leaving so they said they were going to send the award. It was not possible for us to wait for that medal up to 10.00 o’clock as we had run out of time. Our medal is coming. In the whole world, we are number one.
We were asked if there were some Members from Zimbabwe. We raised our hands including you, Hon. Tongogara and we were asked to stand up. It was said that we are fighting for the girl child and everyone there praised us. We said that we are coming from a very small country but we felt proud we were being given as an example. We felt good to be Zimbabweans.
Lastly, allow me to thank Madam President. She has a good heart. When we were travelling, she had her own car and we had our own cars but she would always say I cannot leave this place without my Hon. Members although she had her own car. She would get cold waiting for our car. If people would ask her to get into the car she would keep on standing waiting for us to arrive. We thank you very much Madam President. You showed us love and you taught me love which I did not have. If it was me, I would just get into the car and you would find me
in the hotel, but you showed me that if you are travelling with people, even if you are their leader, you make sure that they are taken care of. With those few words, I thank you Madam President and may God bless you.
*HON. J. D. HUNGWE: We want to thank our Hon. President. I want to join those who came from that meeting, the women who are saying you did very well. It is good to be praised that you are doing something good.
Madam President, I did not go on this trip. I was not there, but if you listen to what happened there, even if you were not there,you cannot fail to get a word to praise that something good was done by
Zimbabweans. Although the delegate is saying we were always behind, despite all that, they saw what you are doing and what you said. I have stood up to say this is a good thing which happened there. They spoke very well there but I see that, as Zimbabweans, I think we have issues.
If you come to our home area, there are very few people who say
Zimbabwe, they say Zimbahwe. That does not matter.
The things which I see that you did well because you spoke there - if it is on salaries we are equal, the difference is just on qualifications. That is very good. They heard it and they saw that we are better. I was thinking, you say that in the whole of Africa we are 95% in terms of literacy rate. The people who are making us to be 95%, the people who are leading are women. The highest percentage is of women. So you were telling them we do not have that discrimination, it is humiliating in our country to have that kind of discrimination.
What I think, Madam President is that, let us talk strongly that in this country we must not have a man who beats up a woman. I do not know if you beat up your wife what do you say? Do you really say I beat my wife? It is so embarrassing. We must make that point strong. Maybe you do not know the importance of a woman. I learnt much from the Bible especially the history of King David. King David was the second king of the Hebrews. On the death of King Soul, he asked to talk at that funeral. He said ‘you the daughters of Israel’. He did not talk of men at that funeral. He said ‘you daughters of Israel cry the death of King Soul’ and he was referring to the daughters. In David’s head and Jehova they put women on the top.
If you go again to the Bible, he was crying for Soul and he was also crying for the death of the son of Soul, Jonathan. He emphasised the importance of the woman. He says, ‘to you Jonathan my young brother’. He is the only person who taught us that a young brother is not only your sibling. King David and Jehovah refused that a brother is only your sibling. Everyone younger than you is your young brother because
Jonathan was from Benjamin’s house and David was from the house of
Judah but he said ‘my young brother’. Listen to his words. He said that ‘you loved me very much. What you did to me was good. Your love to me was more than women’s love’. Those were King David’s words
showing the importance of a woman.
That is why I say if you hear of a man beating a woman, please deal with that man– [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – because a woman is very important. You have not yet seen the importance of a woman. After God realised that he had created a man alone, his plate was very small because he was alone. Through God’s knowledge and his thinking, he did not look for Adam a doctor – doctors are very important, is that not so doctors? He looked for a woman to go and stay with a man. If it were us, you would find what we were going to look for. However, God looked for a woman for a man. In the Bible it says, he who finds a woman finds a good thing.
So, I want us to agree that one who beats a woman must be given a very strong penalty. We agreed that a person who rapes a woman would have done a very bad thing in our country, that is what we do in our country. I was not there, but there were some of us who were speaking very well. If you listen to what the Hon. Senator was saying, I was looking at her, that is my job – [Laughter] – ask Hon. Sekeramayi who the person speaking is or ask Hon. Nyambuya; I worked for 48 years in education in their areas and they understand. I was looking closely on those things. The importance of the woman; one pastor once prayed in church whilst I was present in 1955 and said, ‘Jehovah, help us on our request to you here at Morgenster because you know what we are lacking. Here we are lacking educators for our children, but if you have not found them yet Jehovah, keep on looking, you will find them because here at Morgenster, we do not want teachers.’ People opened their eyes; what is the difference between an educator and a teacher? The Pastor said that there was a difference between that. The next
Sunday he came back and said ‘I understand you have a problem with what I said last week.’ He said, ‘no, if a teacher gets into the class where children are including girls, he sees girls – I did not say they should be killed but they have to be punished.
If you are an educator, you do not see girl friends when you get into a class, you see kids, if you are an educator like myself, I qualified to be an educator. If an educator gets into a class, he does not see girls, he sees children. If someone rapes a child, it is a serious sin in this country and if you beat a wife it is a serious sin. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President. I am
debating after a preacher but I want to thank the delegation that went to the Women Political Leaders’ Forum to witness women leaders sharing their challenges. I just want to add a few words most issues have been spoken by the preacher and the Hon. Senator. I stood up to support – in English they say, charity begins at home Madam President. In this House, at times we become political. However, I want to thank you for your good heart, it should remain like that of being a mother. You should see that when she is driving her Mercedes Benz, she gives you a ride and she is concerned about your welfare, food and where to sleep when things are not alright. She can get to the extent of sharing a room with you, she really tries very hard. We want to thank you for your good heart.
Coming to the issue of a girl child, I was really touched that a girl child; when we are growing up as women and we have our menstrual cycles, it is something that is a secret thing to a parent and even to our brothers and the male folks. When we are growing up, our mothers teach us to be secretive and when they say a girl should not attend school during her menstrual cycle. Sometimes a woman should not go to work during her menstrual period and it means that everyone would know. Similarly if one does not go to school, it means everyone will be aware. I think women should stand up and be strong and talk about it so that those things come to an end. I want to thank you because you articulated our situation as Zimbabweans. We do not have such things.
We have got our own challenges which are political but for someone looking after our children well especially raping children -it happens here in Zimbabwe where you find a very big man like Chief Charumbira raping a defenceless two year old child – this is just an example. I think we should remove that spirit. The Lord should help us so that we keep on talking about it.
Thank you Madam President. I just stood to I support your goodness in the work that you are doing in the Senate and also those who are going out when they come back and give reports.
*HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: Thank you very much Madam
President for affording me this opportunity and I would like to say happy New Year. This is my first time to stand up this year. I stood up to thank you for the journey that you undertook.
When I joined this House in 2018, I was afraid of you but from previous experience seeing you on television, I saw that you were a good person. You have a good heart because even if we meet you in the corridors, you greet us. Some bosses do not greet us when we meet them in the corridors but you greet all of us. I want to thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I would like to thank you and your delegation for representing us as women although we were not there. You were our eye together with all the women you went with. If you had not gone there, we would not know what happened there.
I felt touched on violence against women especially beatings in homes. There is a story which circulated on social media in the past few days, of a man who killed his wife and tied her, put her in a bucket and dropped that bucket in a well. That happened here in Zimbabwe. This really pained me and I cried asking myself – is this how a woman like me is supposed to die? Her children continuously cried and the husband could not explain what had happened when he was asked. That woman was later found in the well and people brought her out. Her husband cried and it was later discovered that she was killed before being thrown in the water.
Water is a problem in this country but you find someone putting a dead body in the water. No-one can fetch water from that well now. The children will have to walk long distances to fetch water because of their father. Maybe in that area, the community was fetching water from that well. This well could have assisted the community so that they do not walk ten kilometres to get water but now that it is contaminated because this man threw his dead wife in the well, they will have to go that far. This man troubled my heart. If I knew the day he would stand trial in court, I was going to attend. I do not know where this man is from but I felt touched that a man can kill a woman, tie her and throw her in a well.
I do not know what the law says if you report violence to the police, for example if a woman has been beaten by her husband. The police tells you to go back and negotiate with him. How can I negotiate with someone who has beaten me? How can I go and bring someone who has beaten me to the police? I will be bleeding but I will be told to go back and bring the person who has beaten me. Is it that they do not have transport? Usually women are beaten at night. You can crawl to the police but you are asked to go back and fetch him. I thought it could be shortage of transport or there is less manpower that I am asked to go back and collect the man who would have beaten me. This is very painful for women. If God had given us equal power, I would retaliate and no one would report because we would have fought.
Menses was created by God. If women do not go through that process, no one would be in this House. It is because of that natural process that women are able to carry pregnancy. If you do not go through that process, you cannot bear children. Men have their own things that they were given by God. You know that this is natural for men. You should not oppress us because of the process of menses. If I do not go through that process, I end up consulting my doctor because it will be a problem. This is a natural process that God created but at the same time people are getting in trouble because of it.
We need to lobby Government to remove taxes on pads so that the price is reasonable prices because at the moment the price of sanitary wear is always increasing. Some people use two packets and that is very expensive. Tax on sanitary wear has to be removed.
School children spoil themselves at school. They end up using leaves because they cannot afford these sanitary pads. Girls are now using pumpkin leaves during their menstrual cycle and it is very painful because they will not be having anything to use and that is the problem that needs solving by reduction of prices for sanitary pads.
Looking at doctors, I am not saying that all doctors are in the habit but some women are afraid of visiting married doctors. I know that male doctors cover you up when coming to make check-ups but some doctors see areas that they are not supposed to hence women become humiliated. You will find some women refusing to be attended to by male nurses through some male nurses surely cover women but other uncover female patients to humiliating levels. Women want more female nurses in clinics and hospitals because they tend not to be humiliated when they are being attended to by their female counterparts rather than male nurses. I have not said all male doctors.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senator, you are
now digressing a little bit, come back to the report as presented by Hon.
Sen. Tongogara.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I am saying these things so that
doctors will hear it and stop the habit.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You may proceed Hon.
Senator.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Then there is the issue of mobile phones. Today we attended a workshop about mobile phones and we learnt a lot of things that we did not know in terms of mobile phones that we use.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senator, do not
address your fellow Hon. Members. Address me and I will reprimand them if they are causing you any distraction at all.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President. The issue of mobile phones, we spent two todays attending an ICT training course and it helped us a lot. The majority of us did not know how to use these phones …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators Shoko
and Wunganai, she is right. You are distracting her and you are laughing.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Mr. President, I am sorry if I distracted
her.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I was talking about mobile phones. It
is very important for us because there are a lot of things that we did not know. We just knew to use WhatsApp and did not know other applications. We did not know that people can hack our information through Bluetooth if you keep it. So it is very crucial that we were taught how to use our mobile phones because these mobile phones can destroy us since information can be taken without our knowledge.
Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 12th March, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE 74TH SESSION OF THE EXECUTIVE
COMMITTEE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY UNION
(APU) HELD IN BANGUI
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House takes note of the report of the 74th Session of the Executive Committee of the African Parliamentary Union (APU) held from 13th to 14th June, 2019 in Bangui, Central African Republic.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHITANGA: I second.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President.
1.0 Introduction
1.1 The 74th Session of the Executive Committee of the African Parliamentary Union (APU) was held in Bangui, Central African Republic on 13 and 14 June 2019.
1.2 Hon. Mabel Memory Chinomona, President of the Senate and Chairperson of the Committee of Women Parliamentarians of the
APU, led a Parliamentary delegation comprising the following
Members and Officers of Parliament to the 74th Session of the
APU:-
- Theresa Makone;
- Hon Spiwe Mukunyaidze;
- Tafanana Zhou;
- Califinos K. Guvi, Director in the President of the Senate’s
Office;
- Rumbidzai P. Chisango, Principal External Relations Officer; and
- Simeon Chifamba, Security Aide to the President of the Senate.
1.3 It should be noted that the above Hon. Members are elected members of the Executive Committee of the APU.
2.0 Opening Session
2.1 The opening session was held on 13 June 2019, with Hon. Herbert
Djono Ahaba, the Minister for Development, Energy and Water Resources and personal representative of the Prime Minister of the Central African Republic in attendance.
2.2 In his opening remarks, Hon. Laurent Ngon-Baba, the Speaker of the National Assembly of the Central African Republic, applauded the decision to hold the Meeting in the Central African Republic in line with the APU’s principle of geographic rotation of venue of
meetings.
2.2.2 Hon. Ngon-Baba briefed the Meeting on the socio-economic and political situation in the Central African Republic, highlighting that the country had restored constitutional democracy through the adoption of a new Constitution, election of a new President and Members of Parliament and the establishment of new government institutions. In this regard, he extended his gratitude to the international community, specifically the African Union, the
Economic Community of Central African States, the European Union and the United Nations for the central role they played in the signing of the Peace Agreement on 06 February 2019.
2.3 Within the context of fostering regional peace and integration, the Hon. Speaker called on Member Parliaments to play a leading role in advocating for peace and promoting integration among the people of Africa.
2.4 In his address during the official opening ceremony, Hon. Alassane Bala Sekande, Speaker of the National Assembly of Burkina Faso and Chairperson of the Executive Committee of the APU, echoed
the sentiments on the need for Parliaments to collectively work towards achieving democracy, peace and freedom throughout the African continent. In this context, he commended the newly elected leadership of the Central African Republic for their commitment to promoting peace and national unity in the country.
2.5 Turning to the work of the APU, Hon. Sekande reiterated his commitment to ensuring that the APU implements necessary reforms to strengthen its role and solidify its position globally. In this regard, the APU had fruitful discussions with the State of Qatar on possible areas of cooperation. Accordingly, the APU and the State of Qatar signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in March 2019, which covered upgrading of the APU website, renovations to the APU Headquarters and establishment of a department in charge of partnership building and institutional development.
2.6 The Chairperson also indicated that he had undertaken bilateral visits to the People’s Republic of China and the Shura Council of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
2.7 He underscored the importance of effective participation of all Member Parliaments in activities of the APU and timeous payments of subscriptions in order for the APU to effectively execute its mandate.
3.0 Consideration of Agenda Items
3.1 Admissions and Re-admissions: The APU had not received any new applications since the last Executive Committee Meeting. Lobbying missions had been undertaken to Cape Verde and Mozambique. The two countries are still to officially express an interest in joining the APU. It was noted that there was a need to encourage other African countries, particularly from Southern Africa, to join the APU. In this context, it was hoped that the proposed amendments to the Constitution of the APU would encourage other African countries to join the APU. Particular reference was made to the clause of the rotation on the Chairpersonship on a regional basis.
3.2 Implementation of decisions and recommendations of the Conference: In his report to the Executive Committee, Mr. Idi Gado Boubacar, Secretary General of the APU outlined activities he had participated in since the 73rd Executive Committee Meeting held in Abuja, Nigeria in November 2018. He highlighted the following activities:
- International Workshop on experiences of national reconciliation held on 17 and 18 January in Rabat, Morocco;
- 29th Conference of the Arab Inter-Parliamentary Union held on 3 and 4 March 2019 in Amman, Jordan;
- 14th Session of the Conference of the Parliamentary Union of the OIC Member States held from 11 to 14 March 2019 in
Rabat, Morocco;
- 140th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related
Meetings held from 06 to 10 April 2019 in Doha, Qatar;
- 10th Conference of Speakers’ of Parliament of the
Parliamentary Assembly of La Francophonie held from 25 to
27 April 2019 in Burkina Faso;
- 1st General Parliamentary Assembly of the G-5 Sahel interParliamentary Committee held on 12 and 13 May 2019 Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso.
3.2.1 The Secretary General’s participation was within the context of promoting cooperation between the APU and other regional and international Inter-Parliamentary organisations. Accordingly, Parliamentarians called for their inclusion in such missions in future.
3.3 The Chairperson of the APU called on all Member Parliaments to implement resolutions adopted during the 73rd Session of the
Executive Committee and the 41st Conference of the APU held in
November 2018. These were on the following:-
- The Role of Parliaments in the fight against terrorism, armed gangs and organized crimes in Africa;
- The promotion of private investment as a major factor in economic development in Africa;
- Promoting girls’ education as an effective means of combating early marriage in Africa;
- The motion to support the G5 Sahel countries and other African countries who are victims of terrorism;
- The recommendation on the establishment of a special court in
Africa to judge cases of terrorism;
- The recommendation on the creation of an African solidarity
Fund for victims of terrorism.
3.3.1 It should be noted that the Zimbabwe Delegation to 41st Conference of the APU held in Abuja, Nigeria duly submitted the above resolutions to the relevant Portfolio and Thematic
Committees for action. Accordingly, the delegation to the Executive Committee submitted the status of implementation for some of the resolutions to the Secretariat of the APU for their information.
3.4 Consideration of the audited management account for the for the 2018 financial year: The Executive Committee noted with concern that several countries had not honoured their obligation to pay subscriptions to the APU, thereby hampering the implementation of planned activities. Members called on the APU to enforce the provisions of Article 26 of the Statutes of the APU which states that “A National Group which fails to pay its annual contributions for two financial years shall have its rights suspended”.
3.4.1 Parliament of Zimbabwe falls into this category as it owes 107 969 Euros which accumulated over the period from 2015 to date. The delegation was embarrassed during the heated discussion on outstanding subscriptions, particularly given that the President of the Senate is the Chairperson of the Committee of Women Parliamentarians of the APU. In this regard, the delegation calls upon the Parliament of Zimbabwe to facilitate the urgent
processing of the subscriptions to enable the delegation to effectively participate in future meetings of the APU.
3.5 Proposed Amendments to the APU Statutes: The Executive
Committee considered the proposed amendments to the APU Statutes and Rules of Procedure submitted by the National Group of Burkina Faso. Principally, the proposed amendments relate to issues of inclusion of women and young Parliamentarians in national delegations to the APU, formalization of the rotation of the Chairmanship of the Executive Committee among the subregions of the continent, opening of the observer status within the APU to non-African Parliaments and other Parliamentary institutions in order to expand the partnership network of the APU.
3.5.1 Following lengthy discussions, the amendments were adopted by the Executive Committee and will be duly submitted to the 42nd Conference for adoption in November 2019. The Zimbabwe delegation fully supported the progressive amendments.
3.6 Topics for deliberation during the 42nd Conference of the APU:
The Executive Committee deliberated on the Draft Agenda for the 42nd Conference scheduled for November 2019. The following topics were agreed upon:-
- The importance of young people’s contribution to the promotion of democracy, peace, security and the rule of law in African countries (Political Committee)
- Promoting a diversified economy and the local processing of basic commodities to create employment for women and young people (Economic and Sustainable Development
Committee)
3.7 Date and Venue of the 75th Session of the Executive Committee: The 75th Session of the Executive Committee will be held in Djibouti in November 2019.
4.0 Statements endorsed by the Executive Committee
4.1 The Executive Committee endorsed the following statements at the conclusion of the Meeting:
- Statement and Support to the Central African Peace Process: Within the context of the Peace Agreement signed on 06 February 2019, between the government and 14 armed groups resulting in the creation of an inclusive government in the Central African Republic, the Executive Committee extended its full support to the peace process and encouraged the parties to the agreement to continue to fully implement the agreement. The Statement calls on the United Nations
Security Council to lift the embargo on arms imposed on the Government. Furthermore, the Statement calls on international financial institutions to provide financial support as part of the ongoing peace process;
- Vote of thanks to the authorities and the People of the Central African Republic: The Executive Committee extended their gratitude to the President of the Central
African Republic, the Parliament and the people of the Central African Republic for the warm hospitality and excellent arrangements that contributed to the successful hosting of the 74th Executive Committee of the APU.
5.0 Recommendations
5.1 The Zimbabwe Delegation notes with concern the underrepresentation of the Southern African Region in the APU. Notably, Angola and Zimbabwe are the only representatives from the region. Accordingly, the Zimbabwe Delegation recommends that Parliament of Zimbabwe informally engages other Parliaments within the SADC region on the possibility of joining the APU. The Presiding Officers can spearhead this process when they interact with their counterparts at regional and international fora.
8.2 The delegation strongly recommends that the Administration of Parliament makes an undertaking to clear the outstanding subscription arrears to enable the delegation to effectively participate in future Meetings of the APU.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHITANGA: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to second the motion by Hon. Sen. Makone on the 74th Executive Committee on African Parliamentary Union held Bangui, Central African Republic on the 13th to the 14th of June, 2019.
Madam President Hon. Chinomona is the Chairperson of the Women Committee on all parliamentarians in the APU and also the leader of the delegation. The delegation comprised of following Hon. Members: Hon. Sen. T. Makone from the Senate, Hon. Mukunyaidze and Hon. T. Zhou from the National Assembly.
I was not part of the delegation but I want to echo my sentiments on the report. Mr. President, the issue of rotation on the chairmanship of the APU is a noble idea because it gives opportunities to all member states within the African Union to chair the Executive Committee. How it comes about the chairmanship is that you volunteer to hold the Executive Committee. The member country that has volunteered takes over the chairmanship and the coming year, they move again to another country because of the rotation and because of the voluntary issue, it also gives preparedness to the nation because you only volunteer and you have the funds to run the issue. We are also looking forward for Zimbabwe to hold such an important event. We have not yet held that event.
There is also need for Southern Africa, I think you heard from
Southern Africa to join the APU. We have Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Angola from Southern Africa. So, we are looking forward that through our Parliaments, we would lobby for other members to join this APU. I would like to thank the Zimbabwe delegation for representing us on this forum and at the same time they made a noble contribution towards the 40th Conference held in Abuja, Nigeria. They made very good contributions towards the resolutions that were to be used on the 75th Conference.
It is equally embarrassing for our nation. It is one of the members in the group that has a debt of 107 969 Euros. So, as Madam President chairs the Women Committee, they say if you have a debt that has gone for two years without being cleared, they say your rights to contribute towards the meeting would be removed because you have a debt that you have not cleared. In actual fact they are saying your membership is hampered when you do not pay the debts. On our part I think it is an issue that we should take forward because we have one of the leaders in that Executive Committee and at the same time the Members who attend will not freely contribute.
The APU is also advocating for the education of the girl child. They say it is equally embedded that when the girl child goes on learning, it delays the issue of marriage. It is another way of delaying the issue of early marriages because they will be occupied to doing some studies and all that and they will also be able to sustain their living. They also said that when you educate a girl child, it is like you are educating the nation. So, I think as Zimbabweans we must take this seriously – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - so that we get to educate all our girl child and in the event of educating them, they also delay their marriages to such an extent that they will be mature and have a profession whereby they will sustain their families.
I think we have an issue to mobilise Southern Africa to join the
APU and encourage even through the international countries and even SADC using those forums and talk about it in those meetings so that as Southern Africa, we join the APU. I thank you Mr. President.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
COLLECTION OF 2020 DIARIES
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: There is a
belated announcement that all Senators are being reminded to go and collect their 2020 diaries at Pax House, 5th Floor, Room 520.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TSOMONDO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 12th March, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 2019 ST. PETERSBURG INTERNATION
ECONOMIC FORUM (SPIEFG) HELD IN RUSSIA
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the 74th Session of the Executive Committee of the African Parliamentary Union (APU) held from 13th to 14th June, 2019, in Bangui, Central African Republic.
HON. SEN. TSOMONDO: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: The annual St. Petersburg
International Economic Forum for 2019 was held in St. Petersburg,
Russia, from 6 to 8 June, 2019. Honourable Mabel Chinomona, President of the Senate of Zimbabwe, led a delegation to the Forum which comprised the following Members and Officers of Parliament:-
Honourable Senator Bybit Tsomondo;
Honourable Senator Tichinani Mavetera;
Honourable Senator Chigwajara Chinheza (Chief Matsivo);
Mr Califinos Kudakwashe Guvi – Director in the Office of the
President of the Senate; and
Mr Flavian Mutigwa – Security Aide to the President of the
Senate.
The Forum was attended by over 19,000 people from 145 countries, including Heads of State, Vice Presidents, Prime Ministers, Ministers, Speakers and Presidents of parliaments from 110 governments. 1,300 guests were representing heads of leading companies. Over 1,700 best, graduate and post-graduate students, young scientists and politicians, attended the Youth Economic Forum. The
Forum was also attended by over 3,500 Russian and foreign companies.
The Russian government officials present at the Forum included: the President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin; 6 Presidential
Plenipotentiary Envoys of the Russian Federation to federal districts; 8
Deputy Prime Ministers of the Russian Federation; 16 Ministers of the Russian Federation; 32 heads of federal services and agencies; 84 subjects of the Russian Federation, 79 of which were represented by their heads.
FORUM OPENING CEREMONY
The opening ceremony officially commenced the Forum and was moderated by Mr Keir Simmons of NBC News. There were 6 high level panellists, including Antonio Guterres, the Secretary-General of the United Nations and Tigran Sargsyan, Chairman of the Board of the Eurasian Economic Commission (EAEC). The prominent issue that was discussed was whether the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) was a political bloc or an economic union. Mr. Sargsyan reiterated and maintained that the Union is a purely economic union. It was also stated that whilst emphasis of the Eurasian Union is on economic integration, it was unavoidable that some of its elements would extend into the political and security realms, but this was only to the most minimal and unavoidable extent.
It was also highlighted during the ceremony that there are obvious tensions between the European Union (EU) and the EAEU, and there have been accusations that the EAEU is a political bloc, in the sense that it is an attempt by Russia to re-establish the Soviet Union (USSR), albeit disguised as an economic union. However, Mr Sargsyan defended the authenticity of the union and pointed out that any neutral party looking into EAEU would be satisfied that its primary business was economic and not political, evidenced by the several economic and business agreements involving EAEU and other partners and countries such as
China, India, Pakistan and Iran.
PLENARY SESSION
The main event of the Forum was the plenary session, with the participation of President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin,
President of the People's Republic of China Xi Jinping, President of the
Republic of Bulgaria Rumen Radev, Prime Minister of the Republic of
Armenia Nikol Pashinyan, Prime Minister of the Slovak Republic Peter
Pellegrini, and the Secretary-General of the United Nations António Guterres.
The leaders commented on a range of issues, including the major problems of global economy today, current globalisation model, energy, international trade, and financial systems. The session covered the questions of malicious competition between states, protectionism, trade wars, unilateral sanctions and limitations.
During his address to the participants of the Forum, President Vladimir Putin talked about the tasks that this country is facing, as well as the importance of national projects as a driver of economic growth.
The Russian president said Russia made a decision to identify development priorities and goals and planned their work within the socalled national projects, which presume combined efforts of the state, the regions of the Russian Federation, society and the business community, to work on the shared tasks. He emphasised that the projects require concentrating considerable resources to achieve the set goals. He stated that the overall budget of the national projects would total around
25.7 trillion roubles, which is about 400 billion United States dollars.
According to President Putin, Russia’s priorities are healthcare, education, research and development, and support for entrepreneurship. He also said considerable funds would be allocated to develop major infrastructure, transport and the energy industry.
President Putin said Russia was open to work with any leader from any country, who seeks to develop relations with Russia and help build a more secure world. He said Russia was working to put its economy on a growth trajectory; they were open to all new partners who have the same conviction as their own.
In his speech during the plenary session, President of PRC Xi Jinping said in the global dimension, sustainable development is the maximum common denominator for global cooperation. The United Nations 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, in the spirit of harmonious coexistence of man and nature, taking into account the needs of today's generation and future generations, provides the agenda for growth in three interdependent areas: economic growth, social development, and the environment.
OTHER EVENTS
The Forum featured over 230 events, including various panel discussions, roundtables, business breakfasts, televised debates, and business dialogues between countries. Most of the events were running concurrently and the Zimbabwean Delegation attended the following:
Russia-Africa
This session was moderated by Charles Robertson, the Global
Chief Economist for Renaissance Capital.
The crux of the session was to assess the extent of relations between Russia and Africa, and how to improve them. It was established that while Russia was interested in new raw materials and establishing international alliances, Africa had solidified its position as one of the centers of global economic growth. In that regard, Russia is determined to strengthen political alliances and economic partnerships with African countries. Russia is taking advantage of America’s lethargy when it comes to real investment in Africa. They are also taking advantage of western sanctions on several African countries, which tends to break relations instead of develop them.
Russia already has interests and investments across Africa, and Russia-Africa trade has risen by 26% to US$18 Billion in the last 5 years. They have interests in several areas, including mining (particularly Uranium and Platinum), agriculture, energy, ICT and infrastructure development.
President Putin believes that for Africa to be fully capacitated as a trade partner, there is need to develop its energy infrastructure. This has seen Russia investing heavily into Africa’s energy sector.
Russia has invested in gas and oil in Algeria, Egypt, Ghana,
Nigeria and Mozambique. It is mining uranium in Nigeria. Russia has constructed hydro-stations in Angola, Namibia and Botswana, while also setting up nuclear plants in Egypt, Nigeria and Algeria.
Several African countries acquire their arms from Russia, including Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Libya and Angola.
Russia provides US$400 worth of aid to Africa every year. 60% of that goes to Africa through international organisations such as the World Food Programme and the UN Refugee Agency. The remaining 40% goes to Africa through bilateral cooperation. Their aid supports education, health care, agriculture, environmental causes and energy.
It was announced during the session that going forward, Russia intends to significantly increase trade and cooperation with Africa and bring more African Countries into the fold. This has seen Russia organising the Russia-Africa Parliamentary Conference which was held in Moscow from 1 to 3 July 2019, and which was attended by a Zimbabwean Parliamentary delegation led by the Honorable Speaker of the National Assembly, Advocate Jacob Mudenda.
Russia also organised and hosted the Russia-Africa Summit from
23 – 24 October 2019 in Sochi, Russian Federation. The Summit was attended by over 50 African Heads of State and governments, including His Excellency, Hon. Emmerson D. Mnangagwa the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, with the combined objective of establishing and enhancing trade and economic relations between the African continent and the Russian Federation, in accordance with SDG number 17 which encourages the formation of partnerships.
The Russian Economy: Seeking Ways to Boost Growth
The following were the key conclusions of the event:
Russian economy’s dependency on oil prices is going down. In 2011, Russia needed the oil prices to be at 110 USD per barrel, but in the past five years, the price has settled around 40 USD per barrel, and this means their focus needs to shift to other sectors.
Russia realised that growth should not come from oil alone, it should come from other sectors including the service industry, agriculture and new technologies. In 2018, the processing industry attracted more than 7% of investment to Russia, meaning there is room for growth. The agriculture sector attracted more than 5% of investment.
Macroeconomic stability is an important economic growth factor. Russia managed to survive the crisis period and create an image of a stable economy. Among the healthy elements that help attract investment is the federal budget surplus that results from highly disciplined implementation of budget policy and monetary policy. Conservative policy that is aimed towards stability is a serious advantage compared to other growing countries.
Russia is keen on making environmental policy part of its economy. Russia is more active in reducing CO2 emissions than most other countries in the world. Russia will play its role so that the economic growth is as environmentally friendly as possible. Business needs help in raising its environmental standards. As a regulator, Bank of Russia is working to make green financing tools more accessible.
Despite alternative growth targets identified for Russia, economic growth remains slow due to a number of factors which include but are not limited to the following:
- Business does not trust the judicial system;
- Lack of unquestionable rule of law;
- Business lacks confidence that it will be protected;
- Russia has week institutions;
- State regulation is not efficient; and
There is urgent need to instigate structural reform. There is need to assure investors and entrepreneurs’ protection of their rights and property. The Russian Government has already put in place legislation that will protect and stimulate capital investment by providing stable conditions throughout the entire investment project.
The Russian Federation must roll out a conservative fiscal policy that will encumber inflation and financial instability. Stable low inflation is one of the factors leading to the investment type of growth. There is also need to accumulate more foreign currency reserves. These reserves have saved Russia before and the help ensure their security.
The Role of Women Executives in Building Successful Business
Models
This session was hosted by the United Nations Industrial
Development Organisation (UNIDO) and the Council of the Eurasian Women’s Forum (CEAWF). It was moderated by Mr. Jacek Cukrowski, Chief of the Europe and Asia Division of UNIDO.
It was agreed that women’s economic empowerment constitutes an important driving force of economic development and growth, as well as a key component of inclusive and sustainable industrial development (ISID) as reflected in the Agenda for 2030 for Sustainable Development and the Sustainable Development Goals.
However, although women’s empowerment has been high on the global development agenda in recent years, consolidation of efforts on all levels is much needed. With women all over the world increasingly launching their own businesses and gaining more economic independence, they are still notably underrepresented in leadership and managerial positions in both the public and the private sector. This anomaly needs to be corrected expeditiously. Women have a story to tell and a way of doing business that has proved to be effective and successful.
Against this backdrop, there is need to gear up on efforts to achieve women’s economic empowerment from the standpoint of women-executives in large enterprises. There is need for the consolidation of a set of business practices and models that will help women attain leading positions in the industry. Parliaments have a role to play by enacting legislation that addresses the imbalances that hinder women’s progression. Laws must be in place which make it illegal to have anything less than gender equity within leadership structures. Governments and policy-makers, as well as the business community need to come together and come up with the prerequisites for the creation of an enabling environment for women’s leadership in economic and industrial development.
Russia holds the number one place in the world for women in leading industry positions. The topic of women entrepreneurship is vital for the development of Russia and the rest of the world because women are the most significant resource of economic development. Allowing gender barriers to keep women out of leadership positions will only negate efforts for economic growth.
It is on record that women are more successful as CEOs and investment bankers, than men. They have proven their mettle in industry and infrastructure development. It is time women are given the opportunity to build successful businesses. Unfortunately, for instance in Russia, although 54% of the employable population are women, they make up only 30% of entrepreneurs. This is unfortunate because economists and academics agree that women entrepreneurs are the under-tapped force that can rekindle and invigorate economic growth. Business in National Development Projects: Ways to Succeed The following were the key conclusions of the event:
Infrastructure projects serve as a foundation for attracting private investment and economic development. By implementing important infrastructure projects, we set off a whole cycle of other projects that become possible in different sectors of the economy. How effective national projects are depends on how many business projects are then implemented based on them.
The Public-Private Partnership (PPP) model can be very useful for mobilising public and private sector resources to build infrastructure.
This is an innovative approach and now it is in use in many countries.
National projects are key. They lead to a different pace of development and a jump in the economy.
The challenges facing this model include:
- An imperfect legal framework.
- The working framework for PPPs in Russia is very narrow.
- A lack of experience and coordination when implementing
PPP projects.
There is need for an investment support law so that major investment projects can receive support for a return on investments in infrastructure. The Russian government has this pending Bill. Its adoption will kick-start many projects that have the potential to boost the Russian economy.
There is need to improve the framework and ensure consistence so that the business community stops worrying and starts working. This can be done by creating the necessary conditions for national development projects at all levels of government. The idea is not for businesses to participate in national projects but for national projects to create platforms upon which businesses are able to implement development and growth projects. The state must participate and make the first contributions and capital grants for projects of this kind.
Protection of Investor Rights as a Catalyst for Economic
Development
The Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation indicated that an active process of modernising the legal regulation is underway in Russia. The prosecution body is fully involved in the process of its modernisation. In 2018, at least 30,000 illegal acts that created administrative barriers for entrepreneurs and investors were annulled or changed at the request of prosecutors. Disciplinary or administrative penalties were applied to nearly 35,000 officials last year.
With regards to Russian Private Law, over the past 7 years, many necessary aspects were added to the Civil Code including: inheritance funds, warranties and representations, and compensation for losses. Favourable legal environment is the most important condition for business development. If the laws are fair and consistent, the investors are happy to comply. Many investors are closely following the changes in the Russian national legislation concerning securities so that they are better informed on whether or not to invest.
In Russia, administrative and criminal procedural pressure on business remains high. The number of fines has increased. Liability and financial responsibility of entrepreneurs has increased dramatically, and today it is nearly 150 Billion Roubles. This has the sum effect of repelling investors.
Many risks are directly related to the rule of law. This is a big restriction for international investors. Many clients do not want to trade in countries, including Russia, which have questionable rule of law.
There is need for legislative uncertainty. According to Aleksandr
Savenkov, the Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, every single time the Federation Council of Russia has met during the past 4 years, the Criminal Code, the Criminal Procedure Code, the Administrative Offences Code and the Tax Code have been amended. For any business entity, the most important thing is the predictability of the legal environment, business climate and government resolutions. The law should evolve, but its provisions should not change constantly, as is the case in Russia, particularly, with the Tax Code.
Russia needs a systematic approach to the development of legal environment. There is need to create a legal state planning system, because there are many different types of problems which require a more systemic solution.
There is also a need to consider international experiences. This can be done by providing investment law that provides legal framework for improving the investment climate. The law would provide for the establishment of the Economic Development Council, which would be tasked with, among other things, observing how other countries have improved the climate for investment and established guarantees for investors.
To attract and protect foreign investors, the following are some of the important factors that need to be ensured:
- Microeconomic stability;
- Rule of law;
- Zero tolerance to corruption; and
- Guarantee of personal security.
Global Energy Sector: Challenges and Opportunities
Increasing energy prices – especially for oil and gas – and recent geopolitical conflicts have reminded us of the essential role affordable energy plays in economic growth and human development and of the vulnerability of the global energy system to supply disruptions.
To secure energy supplies is once again at the top of the international policy agenda. Yet the current pattern of energy supply carries the threat of severe and irreversible environmental damage – including changes in global climate. Reconciling the goals of energy security and environmental protection requires strong and coordinated government action and public support.
As a consequence, the decoupling of energy use and economic growth, a diversification of energy supply, and the mitigation of climate change causing emissions are more urgent than ever.
Governments must seriously and genuinely begin investing in green energy. There is need to finding lasting alternatives to oil. Solar, natural gas and hydro-power remain the world’s best bet.
AGREEMENTS
As is the norm at the Forum, businesses from countries across the globe enter into varying sorts of agreements. This year, the Forum saw 745 agreements signed. Those agreements signed, whose monetary sum were not a trade secrets, totaled 3.271 Trillion Roubles (about 50 billion
United States dollars).
The largest agreements included:
Leningrad Region and RusChem Alliance Limited. signed an Agreement on social and economic cooperation during implementation of the project worth 750 Billion Roubles. The complex for processing ethane-containing gas and producing liquefied natural gas (LNG) will be built near Ust-Luga, Kingisepp District.
Rostov Region and YUG-Energo signed an agreement to implement a set of projects totalling 177 Billion Roubles using the capacities of Novoshakhtinsk Refinery.
Leningrad Region and EuroChem Group AG signed a memorandum of intent for signing special investment contracts during project implementation under EuroChem-Northwest-2 worth 163 Billion
Roubles (USD 2.5 billion).
VEB.RF and Rockwell Capital Investment Company signed an agreement on constructing a new pulp and paper mill in Krasnoyarsk Territory worth 140 Billion Roubles.
VEB.RF, Gazprombank, Sberbank and Acron Group signed an agreement of allocating 110.5 Billion Roubles (USD 1.7 billion) as a syndicated loan for 15 years for developing the Verkhnekamsk potassium-magnesium salt deposit’s Talitsa area (Perm Territory).
Ministry of Natural Resources and the Environment of the Russian
Federation, Gazprom Neft, the Federal Supervisory Natural Resources Management Service, Omsk Region and Omsk Refinery signed a cooperation agreement to implement the Fresh Air federal project (part of the Ecology National Project) worth 100 Billion Roubles.
Murmansk Region and NOVATEK signed a cooperation agreement worth 100 Billion Roubles. NOVATEK will invest in constructing a shipyard in Belokamenka, create approximately 15,000 new jobs in the Region and take part in Murmansk Region’s social projects.
Setl Group and Sberbank signed an agreement on strategic cooperation worth 100 Billion Roubles. The agreement provides for
Sberbank’s intent to be Setl Group’s financial partner and extend credits for its existing and future projects.
OBSERVATIONS
Businesses from across the globe use the forum to exhibit and market their products and services to potential clients. They also use the forum to learn new technologies that are influencing global economics.
Apart from being a leading expert, discussion and exhibition platform, the Forum is a practical field for negotiating and signing business contracts for major international projects and agreements. The Russian Government uses the Forum to attract substantial investment and create partnerships worth billions of dollars, annually.
The Government of Russia uses the forum to demonstrate the strides that Russia has taken towards economic and political reform, and to show investors its willingness to do business with everyone and anyone.
RECOMMENDATIONS
ITEM | ACTION | RESPONSIBILITY | TIMELINE | |
1. | Strengthen state institutions
|
- Realigning alllaws that establish and govern state institutions to ensure their authority, transparency and accountability.
- Provide adequate capitalisation funding to state institutions |
- Parliament of
Zimbabwe - Office of the President and Cabinet - Ministry of Finance and Economic development |
On – going process
|
2.
|
Establish authentic and unalterable rule of law | - Enactment and
realignment of laws in order to ensure justice and protection of the law for all - Complete implementation of Section 164 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which ensures total independence of the Judiciary |
- Parliament of
Zimbabwe - Judicial Service Commission |
On – going process
|
3. | Ensure absolute anticorruption | - Amend the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act [Chapter 9:23] and | - Parliament of
Zimbabwe - Zimbabwe Anti- |
June 2020 |
- | other relevant Acts to ensure stringent and tougher punitive measures, (such as confiscation of all unexplained and illgotten wealth) for people convicted of corruption
Ensure improved transparency, efficiency and effectiveness in the handling of corruption cases. |
Corruption
Commission - Zimbabwe National Prosecution Authority |
|||
4. | Improve policy consistency, efficiency
and economic competitiveness |
-
- - - |
Improve state regulation efficiency by improving quality and scope of
policies and Statutory Instruments Guarantee policy consistencies and ensure microeconomic stability Improve the ease of doing business to international standards. Efficient regulation of tariffs and the business trading environment |
- Office of the President and Cabinet
- Ministry of Finance and Economic Development - Zimbabwe Investment Authority - Competition and Tariffs Commission |
On – going process |
5. | Research how other | - | Increase attendance | - Office of the | On – going |
countries have overcome similar economic challenges | of the St. Petersburg International
Economic Forum and other economic forums by encouraging local business and industry leaders to attend |
President and Cabinet
- Ministry of Finance and Economic Development - Zimbabwe Investment Authority - Zimbabwe Chamber of Commerce |
process |
In conclusion, I must say that this trip to Russia was very beneficial to the delegates as representatives of the country because we saw that we almost experienced the same economic environment like what Russia has been experiencing. I think there are opportunities and lessons which we need to learn as a nation to see how Russia has managed to overcome them especially in manufacturing and the energy sector and also strengthening State institutions to combat corruption which is an anathema to the foreign direct investment. I thank you Mr.
President.
HON. SEN. TSOMONDO: Thank you Mr. President for allowing me to debate this motion which was moved by Hon. Dr. Mavetera. The issue of women’s economic empowerment was also a major topic at St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF) Russia, in particular as it pertains to their taking senior management positions at large companies and public office is becoming increasingly important as is the need to develop business standards to enhance the contribution of women executives for sustainable economic development. The economic forum outlined the role of politicians and business leaders in engaging more women in economic activity.
Specific measures on what should be taken to promote women’s leadership in manufacturing and the public sector were also discussed. The prospects for women executives in the era of digitalisation and the fourth industrial revolution were part of the discussion. Measures to improve labour legislation gradually increase wages and payment opportunities were called for; equal pay for equal work and improve parent level programmes for work place and other measures to achieve economic and social parity in work environment. This would enhance equal grounds and starting points for women and men in their contribution to the economic and their business endeavours.
Another hot discussion at the economic forum was about the paradigm shift in the global economic order. The structure of the world economy is undergoing changes owing to technological progress and digitalisation. The transition from a mono-centric model to fragmentation into platforms has been aggravated by the crisis in the world trade systems and growth of protectionism in various forms.
Against this background, the share of intermediate goods in global trade is growing rapidly. At the same time, industries are shifting to high-tech, knowledge-based application with a growing share of services value and the effective participation by economies in value chains as drives of economic growth and integration into global trade is increasing. There were components that were looked at in the discussion of paradigm shift in the Global Economic Order.
Digitalisation and openness were said to be important tools in contribution to the current global economic trends. The introduction of IT has seen the emergence of E-governance that has almost eliminated paper conducting business by various private and public entities.
The technological revolution is leading to dramatic changes in society. Digitalisation is emerging as the key trend across all industries yet the great opportunities that it is creating are accompanies by major cyber threats. States should become an information platform that gradually delegates the execution of its functions to the private sector. Companies and Government agencies are supposed to transform into ecosystems that deliver a one-stop-shop experience to their customers.
This will save time and reduce red tape and corruption in the Government.
Also, a focus on public health is key to improving quality of life and life expectancy, the promotion of health in general and encouraging people to lead healthy lifestyles. Investment in healthcare boosts economic growth overally. It was discussed that spending on health cannot be seen any more as just plain expenditure. It is a major investment in human capital. Public health and health in general is a key aspect of economic growth and investing in child health care brings substantial rewards. Public and private investment in health care must begin with child health care.
UNICEF is calling for far greater investment in children’s health.
We see it not only as a moral imperative but an economic one as well.
The highest economic returns comes from investments in a child’s earliest moments. Primary care is the cornerstone of health care. It was discussed that universal health coverage cannot be achieved without a consortium of stakeholders and a better informed public for which the media is key. Universal health coverage has to be an integral part of the sustainable economic growth agenda of countries and international organisations. There is need for urgent increase in funding for the system. The systems in Russia are currently working at the post of maximum efficiency where they have managed to squeeze everything to their rates. More resources are needed but then again there is a lot of inefficiency and waste in health systems right now. Adoption of efficient health systems and practices can go a long way in the improvement of the economy.
It was also discussed that national projects are key. The PPP model can be very useful for mobilising public and private sector resources to build infrastructure. This is an innovative approach and it is now in use in many countries. If they are carried out, there will be achievement of a different pace of development and a jump in the economy – it is very important to carry them out. There is supposed to be a present investment support law so that major investment projects can receive support for a return on investments in infrastructure.
It was also outlined that governments are supposed to have a Bill to be adopted that will facilitate the kick start. When implementing public private partnership projects, there are a lot of development institutions especially in the area of innovation, it is proposed creating horizontal management lines and supporting each other with skills and capital will assist. Creating the necessary conditions in the Government, attracting small, medium business and attracting foreign partners are possible solutions to building national development. I thank you Madam
President. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Madam President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MKHWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 12th March, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THIRD WORLD PARLIAMENTARY FORUM ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS HELD IN BALI
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Madam President, I move the
motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the report of the 3rd World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development Goals held in Bali, Indonesia.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: I second.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 Hon. Sen. Chief L. Mtshane Khumalo, Member of Parliament, led a Parliamentary delegation to attend the 3rd World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development which was held in Bali,
Indonesia from 4 to 5 September 2019. The forum was attended by
30 countries and 55 organisations. The theme of the forum was; -
“Combating inequality through social and financial inclusion”. Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane Khumalo was accompanied by the following Members of Parliament and Officer of Parliament:-
Hon. Consillia Chinanzvavana, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Priscilla Moyo, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Marian Chombo, Member of Parliament
Hon Joel Gabbuza, Member of Parliament;
Mrs. Chiwoneso Mataruka, Committee Clerk and Secretary to the
Delegation.
2.0 REPORT OF THE CHAIR OF INDONESIAN HOUSE
STEERING COMMITTEE
2.1 The Steering Committee held a series of focus group discussions where rising inequalities is a major set back to attaining sustainable development. Economic instability undermines social cohesion. Inequality is a global phenomenon which needs address and 11 years remain to attain Sustainable Development Goals targets. This requires strong leadership of Members of Parliament who are expected to provide enabling legislation, noting that Parliament is the cornerstone of democracy to hold the executive into account.
2.2 Social and financial inclusion is key to ensure inclusivity. The World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development should be a strong partner on attainment of sustainable development and ensure accountability and oversight of the parliamentarians effort and commitment in attainment and mainstreaming of SDGs.
2.0 OPENING REMARKS BY MR BAMBANG SOESATYA,
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE
REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA
2.1 The Speaker of the House of Representatives welcomed the delegates to the forum under the theme, “Combating Inequality through Social and Financial Inclusion.” He stressed that;
2.1.1 With the adoption of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable
Development, combating inequality and applying social protection has become the centre of policy agenda in all countries. Financial inclusion should be at the forefront of Government policies to reduce income inequality. Governments must protect the people and promote more social inclusion by distributing resources more
fairly.
2.1.2 He noted that disparities are taking place around the world and require urgent attention. Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) are meant to attend to global challenges to attain a wealth of justice, prosperity and peace. Despite all progress and efforts, inequality still remains a challenge. There is need for stronger focus in decreasing inequality in income and skills. Poverty has fatal consequences in perpetuating inequality leading to conflict;
2.1.3 There is therefore need for a deliberate move by Parliaments to capacitate the vulnerable and leave no one behind for the achievement of the 2030 Agenda.
3.0 SPECIAL REMARKS BY H.E. DR MUHAMMAD JUSUF
KALLA, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
INDONESIA
3.1 His Excellency Kalla noted that since the adoption of SDGs in
2015 ultimately ending in 2030, much progress has been made. Before were the MDGs with their own progress and challenges and the same applies to SDGs but these require working together or collective efforts. He stressed the following;
3.1.1 That nations seem to be lagging behind in many areas and this requires SDG17, that of partnering of developed and developing nations. SDGs are inter-connected and interrelated; that is economic development, social development and environmental sustainability.
3.1.2 The 2019 theme encourages nations to think on how to reduce inequality in this world through social and economic growth without discrimination where, “no one should be left behind.” Inclusiveness is the central theme of SDGs. Social development can only be achieved through social and economic growth. Countries are at different levels of development and as such, there is need for a global concerted effort to achieve development. Greater efforts must be made to achieve equality in gender, health, clean energy and addressing climate change. A developed country should have good hygiene and sanitation and these are fundamentals for the status of one’s country.
3.1.3 Planning and budgeting are key to overseeing SDGs in different governments. Parliament with its authority to legislate and scrutinise budgets is important. Parliamentarians should participate effectively on how industry and infrastructure should create opportunities to do away with inequality and ensure equal opportunities. Tax rates should be discussed so that they benefit citizens of the nations.
3.1.4 His Excellency summed up by emphasising that partnership is key among world countries in the implementation of SDGs. No one country can grow without financial support. Thus, there is need for access to financing for livelihoods and communities.
4.0 PLENARY SESSION ON “HOW INFRASTRUCTURE AND
INDUSTRIAL INNOVATION CAN FOSTER EQUAL
OPPORTUNITIES
4.1 The session was moderated by Ms Andini Effendi, and the following issues were discussed:
4.1.1 That the topic of combating inequality through social and financial inclusion and more specifically on how infrastructure and industrial innovation can foster equal opportunities, bearing in mind that we are experiencing a new industrial revolution is key. Knowledge, interconnectedness and mobility are key and industrial revolution does not mean necessarily neither equity nor fairness. New dynamics go hand in hand with new in-balances. It is the duty of nations to ensure that progress leaves no-one behind.
4.1.2 The Agenda 2030 for Sustainable Development provides us with guiding principles and targets: people, planet, prosperity, peace and partnership. Infrastructure and industrial innovation impacts on several of the 17 goals and in implementing these goals, countries have to bear in mind that infrastructure is no longer synonymous with physical infrastructure. The lack of access to formal education will prevent us from combating inequalities, from creating new jobs, decent jobs and enhance social mobility; and without education the gender gap will persist harming our social and economic progress.
4.1.3 Industrial innovation has the potential of enhancing our means of combating the environmental, economic and social consequences of climate change; however, political willingness is imperative.
4.1.4 That education and awareness on the effects of climate change must be embraced by all stakeholders including civil society.
5.0 PLENARY SESSION ON “ENSURING RURAL ACCESS TO
CLEAN WATER SUPPLY, SANITATION AND HYGIENE”
5.1 The session was chaired by Mr Putri Ayuningtyas and the following issues were discussed as solutions to reach the poorest
and the marginalised in improving their health, nutrition and productivity;
5.1.1 That 785 million people lack even a basic drinking-water services, including 144 million people who are dependent on surface water and 2.0 billion people still do not have basic sanitation facilities such as toilets or latrines.
5.1.2 The fact that water, hygiene and sanitation (WASH) is the subject of dedicated targets within the Sustainable Development Goals,
SDG No. 6 is proof to its fundamental role in public health and therefore in the future of sustainable development. Access to safe water and sanitation are human rights as recognised in 2010 by the
United Nations General Assembly. Below are key issues
Parliaments may convince their governments to deliberate on:
5.1.2 That integrated water management can provide important cobenefits for sustainable development, climate change mitigation & adaptation, and disaster risk management especially as countries
begin to review and implement their national plans in the context of the Paris Agreement. There is a unique opportunity to improve and enhance water management practices;
5.1.3 That WASH, as part of the achievement of SDG 6 as a whole, be higher on countries political agenda, and that it is mainstreamed into national, sub-national, and community-level planning;
5.1.4 That there be predictable and sufficient finance for WASH; and
5.1.5 That there be greater mutual accountability and coordination among the developing countries, development partners, supporting governments, and their citizens on WASH issues.
6.0 PLENARY ON “ENHANCING PARTNERSHIP TOWARDS
INCLUSIVE FINANCING
6.1 Ms Masyitoh Annisa Ramadhani chaired the session on ways and means of ensuring the creation of accountable, accessible and sustainable financial services for all and the following issues were raised:
6.1.1 That the key issues in financing development projects include: improving the ability of countries to generate permanent and stable
tax revenues and improve resource management; focusing aid on sectors to be served by private finance; using aid to leverage and attract more private sector financing to projects that support development (for example infrastructure) through public-private partnerships and investment risk mitigation;
6.1.2 That domestic resources (public and private) and international/external resources (public and private), as well as blended finance are the key pillars of inclusive financing for development;
6.1.3 That there is a need to address some global public goods and efforts to mobilise diaspora financing for the development and building a more robust private sector by improving access to finance for micro, small, and medium-enterprises;
6.1.4 That countries achieve the goal of universal access at a reasonable cost to a wide range of financial services for everyone who needs them, provided by sustainable institutions for sustainable projects;
6.1.5 That one important aspect is that, “Leave no one behind” and this means put sustainable development at the core; transform
economies for jobs and inclusive growth; build effective peace and open trusted and accountable institutions for all; and forge a new global partnership;
6.1.6 That realising this goal will require a committed alliance between business, Government and civil society and will determine needed and sustainable investments. Countries should work on how to mobilise financial services to deliver the needed investments for the opportunities and secure a sustainable economic future and how to leverage technologies that boost production.
7.0 CONCLUSION
In the wake of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, many countries continue to face significant challenges in an increasingly unequal world while the most vulnerable groups remain marginalised from social and economic participation. Sustainable Development Goals
(SDGs) are still perceived as executives’ domain, but the core Parliamentary functions in law-making, budgeting, oversight and representation of the people’s interests are critical in building peoplecentred, inclusive, peaceful and prosperous societies, and ending all poverty everywhere in all its dimensions. Therefore, the formulation of a Parliamentary Roadmap on SDGs shall transform our shared perspective into more tangible efforts under the principles of inclusion, partnership, and participation, where “no one left behind.”
In 2017, the First World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development (WPFSD) adopted the Bali Declaration, which emphasizes the critical involvement of Parliaments in ensuring the effective implementation and timely realisation of the SDGs. The Bali
Declaration encourages Parliaments to strengthen national ownership by mainstreaming and implementing SDGs into enforceable National Development Plan, ensuring sufficient legal frameworks and budgetary requirements to support national policy on SDGs, scaling up efforts to end violence and sustaining peace, and enhancing climate action.
In 2018, the Second WPFSD adopted the Bali Commitment which draws attention to the significance of partnership towards sustainable energy for all.
The Bali Commitment promotes;
- the big potential of renewable energy resources for producing sustainable energy; and
- the prospect of blue economy, green industry and sustainable development to achieve energy security and diversification. This outcome document endorses Parliaments to establish the necessary mechanism to work closely with the governments and other stakeholders.
Parliamentarians gathered at the Third WPFSD in Bali, Indonesia, on 4-5th September 2019 adopted the Bali Roadmap which consists of a number of forward-looking recommendations that represent various dimensions in addressing challenges of SDGs implementation. By referring to the Bali Roadmap, we agree to:
- Safeguard efforts towards the achievement of SDGs, particularly on achieving equality in all social and financial aspects as emphasised in the Resolution 2010/12 adopted by the UN
Economic and Social Council on Promoting Social Integration and
UN General Assembly Resolution 72/206 on Financial Inclusion;
- Urge our respective governments to formulate National Action Plan and establish effective, accountable and inclusive institutions in supporting SDGs implementation;
- Call upon governments to renew their commitment and give more attention in delivering the SDGs timely through tangible actions and accelerating policy implementations as asserted in the 2019
High-Level Political Forum (HLPF) in New York;
- Advocate the delivery of sustainable social protection measures, resilient infrastructure and public services for all, including for those living below the poverty line, people in rural and remote areas, the vulnerable, persons with disabilities, children and older persons and indigenous peoples, particularly through the fulfilment of their fundamental human rights, which consist of no less than the following aspects:
- Quality education;
- Health care;
- Decent and affordable housing; and
- Access to clean water, sanitation and hygiene.
- Urge governments and local governments as well as national and regional parliaments to mainstreaming and localising the SDGs, based on the cultures, local languages and conditions, or uniqueness of a respective country;
- Strengthen legal frameworks and promote the development of an enabling environment to diversify financial resources and scale up funding from multiple sources to reduce financing gap in infrastructure, and to achieve an inclusive and sustainable development through innovative SDGs financing such as blended finance, Green Financing for Financial Institution, Social Impact Fund, religious-based philanthropy for SDGs, and crowd funding through digital philanthropy;
- Underpin multi-stakeholders partnerships in ensuring the creation of inclusive financial services which opens up access for the marginalised to fully participating in the economy and benefit from development;
- Strengthen the multilateral system for effective global
coordination, responses and solutions to address the multifaceted crises and challenges arise from interconnectedness, interdependency and complex global governance;
- Invite business sector and other relevant stakeholders to utilise their innovation and promote creative economy to contribute in addressing sustainable development challenges through the implementation of more sustainable consumption for Sustainable Development; Production patterns, and to engage with Parliaments as strategic partners in development process.
We extend our appreciation to the House of Representatives of the Republic of Indonesia as the founder of the WPFSD for its relentless efforts in promoting the achievement of SDGs while we express our gratitude to the IPU President for continuously supporting the WPFSD. We call upon all Parliamentarians to continue to engage actively in substantiating and holding the regular events of the WPFSD.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THIRD WORLD PARLIAMENTARY FORUM ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS HELD IN BALI
HON. SEN. CHIEF. MTSHANE: I move the motion in my name
that this House takes note of the Report of the 3rd World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development Goals held in Bali, Indonesia.
HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI: I second.
HON. SEN. CHIEF. MTSHANE:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 Hon. Sen. Chief L. Mtshane Khumalo, Member of Parliament, led a Parliamentary delegation to attend the 3rd World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development which was held in Bali, Indonesia, from 4 to 5 September 2019. The Forum was attended by 30 countries and 55 organisations. The theme of the forum was,
“Combating inequality through social and financial inclusion”. Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane Khumalo was accompanied by the following Members of Parliament and Officer of Parliament:-
Hon. Consillia Chinanzvavana, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Priscilla Moyo, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Marian Chombo, Member of Parliament
Hon Joel Gabbuza, Member of Parliament and
Mrs. Chiwoneso Mataruka, Committee Clerk and Secretary to the Delegation.
2.0 REPORT OF THE CHAIR OF INDONESIAN HOUSE
STEERING COMMITTEE
2.1 The Steering Committee held a series of focus group discussions where rising inequalities is a major setback to attaining sustainable development. Economic instability undermines social cohesion. Inequality is a global phenomenon which needs address and 11 years remain to attain Sustainable Development Goals targets. This requires strong leadership of Members of Parliament who are expected to provide enabling legislation, noting that Parliament is the cornerstone of democracy to hold the Eexecutive to account.
2.2 Social and financial inclusion is key to ensure inclusivity. The World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development should be a strong partner on attainment of sustainable development and ensure accountability and oversight of the parliamentarians effort and commitment in attainment and mainstreaming of SDGs.
2.0 OPENING REMARKS BY MR BAMBANG SOESATYA,
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE
REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA
2.1 The Speaker of the House of Representatives welcomed the delegates to the forum under the theme “Combating Inequality through Social and Financial Inclusion.” He stressed that;
2.1.1 With the adoption of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable
Development, combating inequality and applying social protection has become the centre of policy agenda in all countries. Financial inclusion should be at the forefront of government policies to reduce income inequality. Governments must protect the people and promote more social inclusion by distributing resources more
fairly.
2.1.2 He noted that disparities are taking place around the world and require urgent attention. Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) are meant to attend to global challenges to attain a wealth of
justice, prosperity and peace. Despite all progress and efforts, inequality still remains a challenge. There is need for stronger focus in decreasing inequality in income and skills. Poverty has fatal consequences in perpetuating inequality leading to conflict;
2.1.3 There is therefore, need for a deliberate move by Parliaments to capacitate the vulnerable and leave no one behind for the achievement of the 2030 agenda.
3.0 SPECIAL REMARKS BY H.E. DR MUHAMMAD
JUSUF KALLA, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
NDONESIA
3.1 His Excellency Kalla noted that since the adoption of SDGs in 2015 ultimately ending in 2030, much progress had been made. Before were the MDGs with their own progress and challenges and the same applies to SDGs but these require working together or collective efforts.
He stressed the following;
3.1.1 That nations seem to be lagging behind in many areas and this requires SDG 17 that of partnering of developed and developing nations.
SDGs are Inter-connected and interrelated that is economic development, social development and environmental sustainability.
3.1.2 The 2019 theme encourages nations to think on how to reduce inequality in this world through social and economic growth without discrimination where, “noone should be left behind.” Inclusiveness is the central theme of SDGs. Social development can only be achieved through social and economic growth. Countries are at different levels of development and as such there is need for a global concerted effort to achieve development. Greater efforts must be made to achieve equality in gender, health, clean energy and addressing climate change. A developed country should have good hygiene and sanitation and these are fundamentals for the status of one’s country.
3.1.3 Planning and budgeting are key to overseeing SDGs in different governments. Parliament with its authority to legislate and scrutinise budgets is important. Parliamentarians should participate effectively in how industry and infrastructure should create opportunities to do away with inequality and ensure equal opportunities. Tax rates should be discussed so that they benefit citizens of the nations.
3.1.4 His Excellency summed up by emphasising that partnership is key among world countries in the implementation of SDGs. No one country can grow without financial support. Thus there is need for access to financing for livelihoods and communities.
4.0 PLENARY SESSION ON “HOW INFRASTRUCTURE
AND INDUSTRIAL INNOVATION CAN FOSTER EQUAL
OPPORTUNITIES
4.1 The session was moderated by Ms Andini Effendi, and the following issues were discussed:
4.1.1 The topic on combating inequality through social and financial inclusion, and more specifically, on how infrastructure and industrial innovation can foster equal opportunities, bearing in mind that we are experiencing a new industrial revolution being key. Knowledge, interconnectedness and mobility are key and industrial revolution does mean necessarily neither equity nor fairness. New dynamics go hand in hand with new in-balances. It is the duty of nations to ensure that progress leaves no-one behind.
4.1.2 The Agenda 2030 for Sustainable Development provides us with guiding principles and targets: people, planet, prosperity, peace and partnership. Infrastructure and industrial innovation impacts on several of the 17 goals and in implementing these goals, countries have to bear in mind that infrastructure is no longer synonymous with physical infrastructure. The lack of access to formal education will prevent us from combating inequalities, from creating new jobs decent jobs and enhance social mobility; and without education the gender gap will persist harming our social and economic progress.
4.1.3. Industrial innovation has the potential of enhancing our means of combating the environmental, economic and social consequences of climate change; however, political willingness is imperative.
4.1.4 That education and awareness on the effects of climate change be embraced by all stakeholders including civil society.
5.0 PLENARY SESSION ON “ENSURING RURAL ACCESS TO CLEAN WATER SUPPLY, SANITATION AND
HYGIENE”
5.1 The session was chaired by Mr. Putri Ayuningtyas and the following issues were discussed as solutions to reach the poorest and the marginalized in improving their health, nutrition and productivity;
5.1.1 That 785 million people lack even basic drinking-water services, including 144 million people who are dependent on surface water and 2.0 billion people still do not have basic sanitation facilities such as toilets or latrines.
5.1.2 The fact that water, hygiene and sanitation (WASH) is the subject of dedicated targets within the Sustainable Development Goals, SDG No. 6 is proof to its fundamental role in public health and therefore in the future of sustainable development. Access to safe water and sanitation are human rights, as recognized in 2010 by the United Nations General Assembly. Below are key issues Parliaments may convince their governments to deliberate on:
5.1.6 That integrated water management can provide important co- benefits for sustainable development, climate change mitigation & adaptation, and disaster risk management especially as countries begin to review and implement their national plans in the context of the Paris Agreement. There is a unique opportunity to improve and enhance water management practices;
5.1.7 That WASH, as part of the achievement of SDG 6 as a whole, be higher on countries political agenda, and that it is mainstreamed into national, sub-national, and community-level planning;
5.1.8 That there be predictable and sufficient finance for WASH; and
5.1.9 That there be greater mutual accountability and coordination among the developing countries, development partners, supporting governments, and their citizens on WASH issues.
6.0 PLENARY ON “ENHANCING PARTNERSHIP
TOWARDS INCLUSIVE FINANCING
6.1 Ms Masyitoh Annisa Ramadhani, chaired the session on ways and means of ensuring the creation of accountable, accessible and sustainable financial services for all and the following issues were raised:
6.1.1 That the key issues in financing development projects include: improving the ability of countries to generate permanent and stable tax revenues and improve resource management; focusing aid on sectors to be served by private finance; using aid to leverage and attract more private sector financing to projects that support development (for example, infrastructure) through public-private partnerships and investment risk mitigation;
6.1.2 That domestic resources (public and private) and international/external resources (public and private), as well as blended finance are the key pillars of inclusive financing for development;
6.1.3 That there is a need to address some global public goods and efforts to mobilize diaspora financing for the development and building of a more robust private sector by improving access to finance for micro, small, and medium-enterprises;
6.1.3 That countries achieve the goal of universal access, at a reasonable cost, to a wide range of financial services for everyone who needs them, provided by sustainable institutions for sustainable projects;
6.1.4 That one important aspect is, “Leave no one behind” and this means put sustainable development at the core; transform economies for jobs and inclusive growth; build effective peace and open trusted and accountable institutions for all; and forge a new global partnership;
6.1.5 That realising this goal will require a committed alliance between business, government and civil society and will determine needed and sustainable investments. Countries should work on how to mobilize financial services to deliver the needed investments for the opportunities and secure a sustainable economic future and how to leverage technologies that boost production.
7.0 CONCLUSION
In the wake of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, many countries continue to face significant challenges in an increasingly unequal world, while the most vulnerable groups remain marginalized from social and economic participation. Sustainable Development Goals
(SDGs) are still perceived as executives’ domain, but the core Parliamentary functions in law-making, budgeting, oversight and representation of the peoples’ interests, are critical in building peoplecentred, inclusive, peaceful, and prosperous societies, and ending all poverty everywhere in all its dimensions. Therefore, the formulation of a Parliamentary Roadmap on SDGs shall transform our shared perspective into more tangible efforts, under the principles of inclusion, partnership, and participation, where “no one is left behind.”
In 2017, the First World Parliamentary Forum on Sustainable Development (WPFSD) adopted the Bali Declaration, which emphasizes the critical involvement of Parliaments in ensuring the effective implementation and timely realization of the SDGs. The Bali
Declaration encourages Parliaments to strengthen national ownership by mainstreaming and implementing SDGs into enforceable National
Development Plans, ensuring sufficient legal frameworks and budgetary requirements to support national policy on SDGs, scaling up efforts to end violence and sustaining peace, and enhancing climate action. In 2018, the Second WPFSD adopted the Bali Commitment, which draws attention to the significance of partnership towards sustainable energy for all. The Bali Commitment promotes;
- the big potential of renewable energy resources for producing sustainable energy; and
- the prospect of blue economy, green industry and sustainable development to achieve energy security and diversification. This outcome document endorses Parliaments to establish the necessary mechanism to work closely with the governments and other stakeholders.
Parliamentarians gathered at the Third WPFSD in Bali, Indonesia, on 4-5 September 2019, adopted the Bali Roadmap, which consists of a number of forward-looking recommendations that represent various dimensions in addressing challenges of SDGs implementation. By referring to the Bali Roadmap, we agree to:
- Safeguard efforts towards the achievement of SDGs, particularly on achieving equality in all social and financial aspects, as emphasised in the Resolution 2010/12 adopted by the UN Economic and Social Council on Promoting Social Integration and UN General Assembly Resolution 72/206 on Financial
Inclusion;
- Urge our respective governments to formulate national action plan and establish effective, accountable, and inclusive institutions in supporting SDGs implementation;
- Call upon Governments to renew their commitment and give more attention in delivering the SDGs timely through tangible actions and accelerating policy implementations, as asserted in the
2019 High-Level Political Forum (HLPF) in New York;
- Advocate the delivery of sustainable social protection measures, resilient infrastructure, and public services for all, including for those living below the poverty datum line, people in rural and remote areas, the vulnerable, persons with disabilities, children and older persons, and indigenous peoples, particularly through the fulfilment of their fundamental human rights, which consist of no less than the following aspects:
- Quality education;
- Health care;
- Decent and affordable housing; and
- Access to clean water, sanitation and hygiene.
- Urge governments and local governments, as well as national and regional parliaments to mainstream and localize the SDGs, based on the cultures, local languages and conditions, or uniqueness of a respective country;
- Strengthen legal frameworks and promote the development of an enabling environment to diversify financial resources and scale up funding from multiple sources to reduce financing gaps in infrastructure, to achieve an inclusive and sustainable development through innovative SDGs financing, such as blended finance, Green Financing for Financial Institutions, Social Impact Fund, religious-based philanthropy for SDGs, and crowd funding through digital philanthropy;
- Underpin multi-stakeholders partnerships in ensuring the creation of inclusive financial services which open up access for the marginalized to fully participating in the economy and benefit from development;
- Strengthen the multilateral system for effective global coordination, responses and solutions to address the multifaceted crisis and challenges arising from interconnectedness, interdependency and complex global governance;
- Invite business sector and other relevant stakeholders to utilize their innovation and promote a creative economy to contribute in addressing sustainable development challenges through the implementation of more sustainable consumption for Sustainable Development; Production patterns, and to engage with parliaments as strategic partners in development process.
We extend our appreciation to the House of Representatives of the Republic of Indonesia, as the founder of the WPFSD, for its relentless efforts in promoting the achievement of SDGs, while expressing our gratitude to the IPU President for continuously supporting the WPFSD. We call upon all Parliamentarians to continue to engage actively in substantiating and holding the regular events of the WPFSD. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 12 March. 2020.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 12th March, 2020.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: On a point of order Madam President. I am
just looking at the Bills that have been pushed through and I am seeing that the Freedom of Information was pushed through to Parliament on the 10th March, 2020 and also the International Treaties was pushed through to Senate on the 10th of March, 2020. When we checked in the pegion holes, we did not get anything because I suspect that tomorrow we might debate those Bills that I am talking about. I thank you Madam President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. MOHADI): Hon. Senator, the request that you are talking about all the information was put in your pegion holes during the time when the same information was also distributed to the National Assembly and it is some time now. Maybe you have forgotten or you did not see them.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Madam President, if you may allow me
to speak. Previously when we tried to debate similar Bills when they have been amended in the Lower House extensively, we have found ourselves in sixes and sevens because the Minister will come with an amended Bill. We have the Bill that was originally made which has gone to the Lower House and gone back to the Parliamentary Legal
Committee and that Bill will be different. So, we cannot be debating and contributing to a Bill that has been changed and amended. Why can we not just get the amended copies and after the amended copies, we debate the amended copies?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. MOHADI): Your request has been heard Hon. Sen. If you feel that you have been given short time, can you just request that when the motions are brought in the House tomorrow and then you request for more time, but we should not just hide saying that we did not see the papers. I do not think that is fair.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President.
When it has been amended, it means it is new. So, we cannot be asked to debate on a first generation when there is a fourth generation. I stand to be guided through you Madam President that if a Bill originates from the
National Assembly, we debate an approved Bill from the National Assembly not the first generation which was amended and amended and it comes to us when we have got the first generation. I think there must be a problem because what we are discussing is not what has been amended. Thank you Madam President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE
(HON. SEN. MOHADI): Thank you so much. I think you are hitting on the same point, all of you - which I said that the Second Reading will be done tomorrow. It is up to you to raise the issue to the Minister here present tomorrow.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Sorry Madam President, we have had a
similar situation and I do not know why we debate it all the time because last time I think the Deputy President said that in future they are going to handle things differently, but it seems like every other Bill we go through the motions as if our duty is to rubber stamp rather than to look at these laws in a very intensive and proper way.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. MOHADI): Thank you Hon. Member, I think we have heard your
plea. I will refer this matter to the Minister. I thank you.
Hon. Sen. Makone having been asked to move her motion.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Madam President, I think because of
time and now that it is 5.00 o’clock, will I be able to read the report and finish because it seems the Hon. Senators are tired.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. MOHADI): The closing time of Senate is 7.00 o’clock, if you feel like you want to move it you can do so but if you do not feel like doing so, you can as well do it tomorrow.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON.
SEN. KHUPHE, the Senate adjourned at Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 10th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. SPEAKER’S RULING
CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS
THE HON. SPEAKER: Following the point of privilege on failure by Members of Parliament to adhere to the code of conduct and ethics raised by the Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga on 3rd March, 2020, I wish to inform the House that to date, 244 Members of the National
Assembly; which represents 90.3% have declared their assets and 26
Members; which represents 9.7% have not declared their assets. In the Senate, 73 Senators representing 91.25% of the Senators have declared their assets while 7 Senators…
Hon. Member having been making noise.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order please. I will repeat. In the Senate, 73 Senators representing 91.25% of the Senators have declared their assets while 7 Senators representing 8.75% have not declared their assets. The foregoing figures are inclusive of Hon. Ministers and all back-benchers. All the Hon. Members who have not declared their assets will be given until Thursday 19th March, 2020 to comply. Failure to do so will lead to the constitution of a Privileges Committee to investigate the matter and come up with the necessary censure. Please be guided accordingly.
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a Non-Adverse Report on the National Prosecuting Authority
Amendment Bill [H. B. 20, 2019] from the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
ERROR IN THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to draw the attention of the
House to an error in today’s Order Paper where the date is reflected as Thursday 10th March, 2020 instead of Tuesday 10th March, 2020. Please correct accordingly.
PETITION RECEIVED FROM MR. F. MANDAVA
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that on Thursday 20th February, 2020, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Mr. F. Mandava, representing Madzimbabwe Rozvi Empire Trust, requesting Parliament to amend the Constitution and other relevant pieces of legislation in order to ensure that traditional leaders are fully recognised and empowered.
The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Local Government and Public Works.
POPULATION DEVELOPMENT, SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE
HEALTH AND RIGHTS CAUCUS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that the
Population Development, Sexual Reproductive Health and Rights
Caucus invites interested Members of Parliament to join the Caucus.
Interested Members should register their names with Ms. Ndawana and
Mrs. Mafuruse who will be stationed at the Members’ Dining Room on
10th and 11th March, 2020 from 1430 hours-1545 hours. Registered Members are invited to an inaugural meeting to be held on Thursday 12th March, 2020 at 0830hrs in the Government Caucus Room.
UNITED NATIONS INTERNATIONAL WOMEN’S DAY
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the 8th March is UN
International Women’s Day and it is very important that we observe that day. Unfortunately, this particular year it happened on Sunday. There was a request that the day be declared a public holiday. To strengthen the position of the Chair - in order to put the processes in place, it is my recommendation that a motion be moved, debated, hopefully adopted and then from there we can use that adopted motion as a request for ensuring that the 8th March is a public holiday in Zimbabwe in respect of the womenfolk – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear].
The Hon. Speaker having recognised Hon. T. Zhou – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is that? Please do not pre-judge the
Hon. Member or you will be judged accordingly.
HON. S. BANDA: Mr. Speaker, when you are coming in it is
Hon. Zhou who tells us that the Hon. Speaker is coming so thank you for
that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I thank you for your humour.
*HON. T. ZHOU: My point of privilege regards what you have just said about commemoration of the International Women’s Day. I am concerned Mr. Speaker as I was born of a woman. As you came through with your procession Mr. Speaker it deeply concerned me that there was not even a woman amongst your procession. I urge you Mr. Speaker that for this week your procession should be made up of women only. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I always joke with Hon. Zhou for his famous anecdote when he sees members of the female folk and he says can I come for the inspection in loco – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – so I am not surprised. Your inspection is correct but it is up to you Hon. Members that the procession includes the whole of the Speaker’s panel which has got two panellists who are female. Until you change that I shall come in alone.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I stood up to put
myself in your shoes. Since it is International Women’s Day. I have a woman who came to my office today and it really touched me because it affects me executing my mandate. The 10th March Mr. Speaker, is the same day that Itai Dzamara went missing. The wife to Itai Dzamara is a woman just like me and has the right that her husband whom she got married to and cooked for did not come back home.
Mostly when someone goes missing, later on their bodies can be recovered or they can come back alive and this gives rest and peace of mind to the affected person. So she came to me and said she approached the Government yesterday with her letter requesting justice, and the
Second Republic should make an effort to explain as to where Itai
Dzamara is so that he can go back to his family. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, we have taken note of your issue. Yes, the wife has approached Hon. Karenyi. I think from my understanding, this issue is before the Executive. I heard a statement about two days ago that the search is still going on and some fund was put in place for anyone with information to come forward to indicate so that there is a closure. I think that is what the family wants that there be a closure.
*HON. NDUNA: I have a request Mr. Speaker Sir, you once
informed me that the issue of the radio station that used to capture proceedings in line with section 141 of the Constitution that says whatever happens in this House should be disseminated to the people we represent and there should be live coverage. You advised me to put it in writing to the Minister. However, my request was that as the Minister is considering this matter, I was requesting that this Parliament of which you are the head, be seized with the matter so that Radio Zimbabwe (2) and Classic 263 can also access information and disseminate to the people we represent. In other areas that we represent, there are no newspapers. We have The Herald, News Day and Daily News but in other rural areas they cannot get newspapers and the radio stations are not able to disseminate this information, especially what you are saying to the people that we represent. Mr. Speaker, I implore you to be seized with the matter so that those in the remote areas can also access information on what is going on in Parliament. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. We have
machines that are taking all the information to our radio and I believe if they are able to tune in to the station they can listen to what is happening here. At the new Parliament, we will have a radio and television station dedicated to Parliament to carry what is being debated in the House. The section that you referred to Section 141, refers to Public Hearings. All public hearings are covered by television and radios. I always see it on television and listen on the radio. There is also a programme on Constituency Talk which is also aired. If that is not happening, we will deal with the matter accordingly.
*HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I stood up with a concern over our welfare as parliamentarians. As our leader and father we keep quiet because we respect you but we are facing challenges. We are the ones who pass the legislation for the Government to operate. When we came to this Parliament we were being given US$2 000 and sitting allowance was US$75. If you compare that money with other countries, it is not much but we did not complain. We came here and we passed the budget. Since the Minister of Finance changed to a monocurrency system, I was looking forward to getting the US$2 000 and US$75 at interbank rates. There are other rates which are there - we are not looking at them but as legislators who pass the laws of the land, the interbank is the official rate.
Currently the money that we are getting is nothing. We cannot even pay school fees for our children. a lot of things are happening. We are even failing to access medical care because it is expensive, what more of our children? my request is that as our head and father who heads the Stand Rules and Orders Committee, most people are in depression. We want to know why our issues are not been addressed. It seems our superiors are sitting pretty. I interact and talk to my colleagues. I am brave enough to speak up but what I am talking about concerns everyone. I said to myself no, I cannot keep quiet on this matter because we know that if we bring this before our father he will understand.
The other issue is that the stands which we were given, if the money that we are paying to hotels was given to us, then a person can make a choice whether to develop the stand or not. You should only be concerned about the attendance of people. The money that we spend in hotels can actually cater for the mortgage and families. It is my request that on the issue of stands and houses, we request that mortgages be made available so that we can pay the mortgages in the form of a stop order. My request is that you may consider these matters because my superiors have also said since my superiors is being treated at the upper level, why can we not set up our own committee to represent us and bring these issues to our superiors, because those whom we are sending do not seem to be making headway. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: The issue raised by Hon. Mliswa I have taken note of it. We met with the Chief Whips today and I advised them to go and investigate, and inform us on as to how we can address the issues of welfare for the Hon. Members. It is a matter that is on the table of the Chief Whips. I am sure they will listen, take into consideration what you have said – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Quiet, else I will evict you from this House. It is a challenge for me to inform elderly people like you to be quiet. You should also consider the fact that you are adults and you should find it in yourselves to just keep quiet without being told. Thank you.
I was saying that the Chief Whips should investigate and consider what Hon. Mliswa said that before, you were paid in US dollars and we will see what they are going to bring to the table in terms of interbank exchange. I am sure that on Thursday, after they have engaged in your caucuses – the challenge is Hon. Mliswa does not have a political party as an Independent. Maybe he will go to ZANU PF for an hour and then join MDC for another hour. It is up to him but his matter has been noted. I am sure the Chief Whips have taken note again.
I saw an Hon. Member wanting to speak, I stand by my ruling no more than four points of privilege.
SECOND READING
MARRIAGES BILL [H. B. 7, 2019]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Reading of the Marriages Bill [H.B. 7, 2019].
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Did you hear what the Clerk has said? Do not force the Chair to be telling you to maintain order. Be self respecting and that will be more dignifying rather than being mentioned to go out. Let us behave.
Question again proposed.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to add my voice on the Marriages Bill debate with regards to the public hearings that we did. I have been longing to debate but not getting a chance, maybe it was waiting for me to debate in this International Women’s week, of which I think I am very much pleased to do so. Mr. Speaker Sir, I will start by quoting the Minister when he was reading his Bill that he had no sinister motive whatsoever when he was drafting this Bill. He further went on to say, he wanted to protect every woman through this Bill. I want to say Mr. Speaker Sir, according to my understanding and reading of this Bill, the Minister was very much correct that he has no sinister motive. Whatever has, it is trying to protect each and every woman regardless of the social standing they have, whether they are married in which chapter or not married, whether they are selling tomatoes, vendors or whatever, they remain women.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will go straight to the issue on Clause 40, the much talked of which is the civil partnership. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Minister said they have sat as the Executive and they thought of repealing. I stand to be guided, is it the duty of the Executive or we have to debate it first then we can speak of repealing the Clause. Mr.
Speaker Sir, when we went around doing the Marriages Bill public hearings a lot was said by women and men respectively especially on Clause 40 which is the civil partnership. Mr. Speaker Sir, I feel very sad on the way that this Chapter was interpreted to the general public who did not have an understanding of the reading of Bills. It was interpreted in a way to saying this Bill or this Clause has come to destroy marriages which were there, which is not true. This Clause was put in place to protect those women who found themselves in situations whereby when they go to court, they have no standing to defend themselves on what they would have gone through during the tenure on which they were in that relationship. There was no place when I read Mr. Speaker Sir, where this Clause encouraged side chics as it was said or homosexuals. All this Bill was trying to do was acknowledging that these things are happening, acknowledging that there are women out there who found themselves with children of men who then go out and say no, I was married before so I have to run away; or women who would have gotten married but not registered their marriages but know that they are staying with those men having children and acquired assets that are later taken away by relatives in the name that we do not know you; lobola was not paid for you.
Mr. Speaker Sir, going back to public hearings, there was a woman who related her story of having been married for twenty years with a men, built houses, had children and had everything. Everyone in that area knew that she was Mrs. so and so but painfully, no lobola was paid for her. Mr. Speaker Sir, when things were hard, the woman went to South Africa to work for her children. When she was there, her husband died. When she came back, she found that everything that she had acquired for twenty years in a marriage was taken away from her simply because she had no marriage certificate. Mr. Speaker Sir, we have women going through this each and every day. This Bill was drafted to protect such women from callous people out there who then take away everything that you have worked for in the name of you not having a marriage certificate. Mr. Speaker Sir, in Rusape, a young man stood up and said, I have my wife and I do not have money to pay lobola but I love her. We have been together for six years. To me, she is my wife.
Mr. Speaker Sir, like what another Hon. Member said in this House some time ago, in here, in this House, we have products of people who were not legally married. They did not have documents and they did not pay lobola but they gave birth to Hon. Members in this House who are still Members of Parliament respected in their communities.
They were born of parents who had no legal standing in the community. So Mr. Speaker Sir, as we stand in this House, I stand to represent every woman out there. Having a marriage certificate Mr. Speaker Sir does not differentiate you from a woman who is selling tomatoes and does not have a marriage certificate. That woman remains a woman and in this
House we have to protect each and every woman – [HON. Members:
Hear, hear.] -
Mr. Speaker Sir, when we are drafting a law, we do not look at ourselves. I know we could be having painful stories that we can say that happened in our marriages but when we are making a law, we look at people out there that we represent. If I had a husband and somebody took away my husband, it must not be a standing that I stand in this House and say I will not protect any woman who finds herself in that position because I had a bad experience. Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand in this House to say let us look after women out there. What about the children of those people that we are saying are not married. What happens to those children? We see street kids all over and it is because we have failed to make a law that protects women who do not have a good social standing in the community and those who do not have a say in the community.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me say this; I heard that pastors were the ones who were fronting the issue of civil partnerships saying it is a bad thing. We have millions of churches in this country but we still have these situations happening. If the pastors think this is bad, why not …
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. The
word pastor is not fair. I think Parliament will not be seen in good light.
I think a better word must come out of that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Which one?
HON. T. MLISWA: People – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! We cannot expunge the
use of the word pastors. Perhaps qualify and say some pastors.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you for
the correction Hon. Member. I will use the word some church leaders. Mr. Speaker Sir, the reason why I am quoting them is because in our public hearings, they were coming and they were airing their views as pastors. They did not hide their social standing in the community but I stand corrected. I was saying if church leaders were really – [AN HON. MEMBER: Some.] – Okay let me leave the issue. I think the Minister has taken note of that. It will disturb me from making my contribution. When we asked them to say if you are so much against these partnerships, what do you say about children who come out of these relationships and they said children are a gift from God so we accept them. So, that is where I raise my question from but I will leave it since it seems like it has raised a lot of interest Mr. Speaker Sir.
The only thing that we can look at in this clause Mr. Speaker Sir is subsection 5, which says it agrees that someone can go out. I think we can look at that subsection alone. We do not throw it away but we can look at it as this House debates to see how best we can put it through but as for Clause 40, I do not see anything wrong witht it. The other issue Mr. Speaker Sir some were saying we will rather change the words civil partnership without changing what it stands for. Maybe we can put it under the unregistered customary marriages or whatever but we have to find a way to make this thing be in this Bill.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will go on to the child marriages where we have got the age of 18 as the age of marriage and the age of 16 as the age of consent. Whilst the majority stood up to say the age of marriage should be 18, there are also important things that were raised on this issue. We all understand and agree that for a person to be mature and be old enough, that person must be 18 and above. However, are we really saying every young woman indulges in sex at the age of 18? If that is what we are agreeing to as this House, then I have no problem of putting the age of consent and the age of marriage both at 18. The truth out there Mr. Speaker Sir is that children are indulging from the early age of 13 and we have seen others at 12 years. It is not what we want as parents. It is not what is acceptable in the community but it is what is happening Mr. Speaker Sir. As this House – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] – Can I be protected Mr. Speaker. I am speaking of issues that Hon. Mliswa not acceptable to. I am speaking of what I see happening.
I was saying if we agree that children are indulging at an early age, what are you doing as a law making body? Of course it is the voice of the minority and the majority will always take the day but I am saying let us look closely and do what is best for our country and children. We are having abortions and children are dying because we are failing to accept what is happening on a day to day basis.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with early marriages, I acknowledge that the chiefs are now marriage officers which many applauded to say it is a good move. For those that are failing to travel from rural areas to urban areas to register their marriage, it will be made easier for them to be registered. However, there were a lot of issues that were raised from that. The first issue was for chiefs to ascertain the actual age for the people that will be getting married. Mr. Speaker Sir, we know that especially in the areas of Matabeleland, there is the issue of statelessness because most of the people do not have birth certificates. A lot of people in Matabeleland do not know how old they are because you can only know how old you are if you have got a birth certificate and an I.D. The parents can say the child is 19 years old whilst the truth of the issue is that they are maybe 14 or 15. How will the chief ascertain the actual ages of those that they will be marrying?
The other issue was the issue of payment to the chief. We know that whenever they are sitting, there are some things that are paid like goats and so on. We know that most people are not registering because they say it is expensive for them to do so. So, is there not going to be a problem with the issue of payment?
The issue of accessibility, we know that in rural areas we have got maybe a chief staying a very long distance from where those couples who wants to get married will be. Therefore, the distance issue will also be a challenge.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are children who are already married. They were forcefully married before the age of 18 years - what does the Bill say about that? As a Government, are you saying that has already happened, let us leave them or there will be a way of making sure that they finish their school or fulfill the dreams that they had before they were forcefully married.
On marriage and property rights, even those that are in marriages are registered as ‘out of community of property’ when it comes to the rights of property in their marriages. This means that those who have their names registered on the property have got the right to sell or to give out without the other spouse knowing. I think that is something that was not captured in the Bill. The marriage has to be in community of property so that each spouse has got equal rights when it comes to the property they acquired together.
When we were moving around with the Defence Committee, the issue of widows of war veterans; it was very much highlighted because when the war veteran dies, the widows’ allowances are cut to half.
These things happen because the ‘out of community of property’ is not clearly spelt out in the issues of marriage and property rights.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will conclude by the issue of willful transmission of HIV/AIDS. I know it has been debated for a long time in this House. This issue came out very clearly during our public hearings. We cannot, at this time, as Zimbabwe ascertain who brings HIV/AIDS unless we are tested before getting into that relationship. It has been said over and over again that women are the ones who find themselves wanting in this issue because if you are pregnant, you are compulsorily tested. If you are found positive, the male counterpart will say you are the one who brought the illness in the home. When a man knows that he is the one who was HIV infected, he can willfully transmit, and then rush to the hospital for testing and because some men are very clever and cunning, they will say I was okay it is you who came with this disease. So we have seen a lot of women, I was even reading from somewhere where a woman was jailed because the man had said she had infected him with HIV.
So, Mr. Speaker, I think unless we have got those machines and we are sure we can detect who brought the HIV in a relationship, the willful transmission has to be repealed from the Bill. I thank you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear. Hear.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Maphosa has set a standard, this is what your Presiding Officers expect – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- When you read the Bill, be critical, be constructive in your criticism, make suggestions, then we are truly law makers. The Chair here, does not take sides during debates but as a matter of enriching your debates, it is suggested that you read Justice Manyarara’s judgment on civil union; you will be so educated, so that when you debate here, you debate within the parameters of wisdom.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Mr. Speaker Sir. I had decided that I was not going to discuss this particular Bill but I must say my hon. sister gave me the courage to go into this arena. I will explain why some of us had felt that we may not even begin to debate. For some reasons the debate on this Bill had been so messed up that if you were widowed or single, you were not given the right to even begin to debate.
Unfortunately, like Hon. Maphosa set the discussions around Section 40, and we must put the blame squarely on the Executive because as she started this debate she indicated that there is some problem with the way the Executive dealt with this particular Bill. At no time in the country have we had a circumstance where a Cabinet sits and makes a determination on a Bill that has been gazetted and therefore, sways public opinion on that particular Bill. We actually had Cabinet on the day they had met coming out saying Section 40 was against the values of this country. This was an indication of where we went horribly wrong. So, as far as process and legal procedure is concerned, there was something fundamentally wrong with Cabinet taking the position that they took. They could have come here, most of the Ministers are
Members of Parliament in this House, they could have lobbied and the
Minister himself could have come here and then said after consultations,
‘I feel that there is something that we need to change around Section 40’.
However, to make a public announcement on television as the Executive, and saying we have now removed Section 40 on the Bill, which legally was wrong because they could not do that, but it swayed public opinion. Having swayed public opinion, I think the other problem that I have is actually with Members of Parliament in this House, particularly the male members of Parliament – [HON. T. MLISWA: Some!] – Okay, some members of Parliament. When this Bill was brought to this House, I actually took the time to speak to most of the individual male members of this House. I wanted to find out one thing, how many of them were married under civil marriage. I can safely say about 90% of the males in this House are not married under civil marriage – [HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, that is true.] –
What it means Madam Speaker is that if we were to argue on an issue of conflict of interest, in fact 90% of the male members of this House should not be debating on this particular Bill because they do have an interest. They have an interest in protecting their rights to not be taken on in the event that they walk out of a relationship, because what we have done by getting Section 40 out of here means that a man who went and paid lobola but has not gone and registered the marriage if you were to go to any court that man cannot be held accountable and that is what Section 40 was trying to do.
So when men say we do not want Section 40 Madam Speaker, they were in fact protecting their interests. Unfortunately, women being who they are, the moment you threw the flag about small houses and you are going to take away my man from me, they completely forgot the principle that was underlining this particular issue. This was not about the side chick she talks about. This was fundamentally about women who are the majority in this country but have not been able to get their men to go and get their marriages registered. Even now that we have said the Chiefs can register marriages, I want us to go back a year from now and see whether the women in those rural communities have been able to drag their men to go and get the marriages registered.
When I asked the men that are here why they are not getting their marriages registered. Some of the reasons you would laugh Madam
Speaker. ‘Oh, the moment you get married and you register, you will be killed, kurudzi kwedu vanhu vakangochata chete vanobva vafa’. They just do not want commitment – [HON. T. MLISWA: That is why I am single.] – because commitment is about getting and getting yourself registered.
I just want to make sure that the women that are sitting in this House that have been part of pushing for the taking away of Section 40 understand that fundamentally this was a male agenda. It was a male agenda around ensuring that they are not held accountable but a patriarchal agenda about controlling the sexuality of women, because at the end of the day you can do what you want and you can walk away scot free. This debate that we are having here is the debate that some of the women who were in this House when you were not in had around issues of maintenance.
If you can go back Madam Speaker and read the Hansards of that time, the people that were fighting against the issue of maintenance were the males and the women were brought in to say oh, you are going to have to look after children that are being had outside your relationship. If this goes on and like Hon. Maphosa succinctly put it, I have no problem with going to Section 40 and saying let us remove subsection 5 or let us find a way of putting it, but to come back and say let us remove the whole of section 40 is to actually say 80% of the women had absolutely no right.
The sad thing as we read in the newspapers Madam Speaker, is that those men that hold political office, including men that have been in the judiciary at the highest levels - if you go back as we speak today, the women they were living with at the time they were dying, the women who looked after them at the time they were dying were left with absolutely nothing. Why? What that man did is he walked away from that woman, came and lived with this younger woman, and made sure that at the time that he is dying, has left nothing in the will for this woman, and has left nothing for her and right now, that is the woman that we are talking about. If you are sitting here as Members of Parliament in 2020, and with a whole conscience, you think it is okay that a man walks away from one woman, goes and lives with another, is looked after by that woman and leaves nothing for that other person.
Lastly, Madam Speaker, again the issue that Hon. Maphosa raised very clearly, the issue around the property regime in this country. I had hoped that the women that were holding banners and calling small houses as if the men themselves are not small houses. Those that were going around holding banners for small houses would have spent most of their time fighting against the property regime in this country, because the property regime in this country separates marriage to property. This is why a man can sell a property today with you and your
5.11, so that certificate means absolutely nothing.
It also may mean absolutely nothing and I am a good example of that Madam Speaker, with a civil marriage, with a 5.11, having pushed for a will, I still got myself outside with a suitcase with my dresses and nothing else – [HON. T. MLISWA: Nekungwara kwako ikoku muzukuru.] – nekungwara kwangu ikoku, with the best lawyer Beatrice Mtetwa in the world. So if we were dealing with marriages and we were dealing with a Marriages Act, we should have been looking at the issues around the property regime. What does the property regime say? What does it say for a person who is in a civil marriage or for a woman in a customary marriage?
I want to say I applaud this particular Minister, a male who has taken the most abuse for this particular Bill and called all sorts of names by the very same people that he wanted to protect, which is why if she had not stood up today, I had said to myself ha-a vakadzi vacho vari kurwira nyaya dzemasmall house ngatimbogarai ipapo because I knew 2 – 5 years from now we would be back in this very House. So what I am going to call to the Minister is at least you have heard some different voices around this thing, can we go back to Section 40, redefine it and make sure that we come up with a particular clause that protects the majority of the women.
We know that the Judiciary has already taken a position on this, if you look at the current judgments that judges have made in circumstances where there is no registered marriage - they have had to either use tacit to define who brought what but tacit is difficult because it means every time you buy a stove or brick you have to keep a receipt. Unfortunately, if we are in this madness that we imagine exist which is love you tend to forget that you are dealing with a male wawakaona aine mazino ake akazara who you cannot control. Women get into this voodoo thinking and you do not realise that the very same man who is saying they love you today will become the animal who will be kicking you out. Let us make sure that we protect the women by putting in this.
To close up, for time immemorial, women have tried to change male behavior by all sorts of things. The thing that you will not change about males is the fact that they are who they are and we will do certain things that make us crazy. Nothing in the world; including legislation can keep a man from philandering - absolutely nothing, until the day we find a lock and key where we can key their organs and open them as we wish, it will never end. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I also want to weigh in on the debate about the Marriages Bill. As we were conducting public hearings in regards to this Bill, the majority of the people that we visited in the communal lands had the same question. You are talking about marriage and in terms of this marriage you are talking about partnerships. They said there should be difference between marriage issues and those that relate to lovers. They said the Bill did not clearly spell out in terms of property and how it should be divided. That was more elucidated in terms of the partnerships, in terms of what each partner would get at the end of the relationship. This did not go down well with the people in the communal lands. The majority of elderly women that I met who are just as old as me said they got married around 1970s and 1990s and they used to grow their groundnuts and would build a house in Harare. Today they know that they have a house in Harare and if they were to come to Harare, they are known by everyone that she is the lady of the house.
Maybe the partner who is assisting the husband in building the house will be thrown out and that there is need to ensure that such marriages are safeguarded even if they may not be registered because they may not have certification to established relationship and that there should be an alternative law to also recognise those without certificates or without registered marriages. That was the major bone of contention as has been clarified by others. People were under the misconception that it would help those under partnership.
The majority of the people in the communal lands said that they should clearly interpret the language of interpretation in terms of partnership. Others thought that the partnership was between a man and man or a woman and woman. If that term was used, it does not go down well with the people in the communal lands. It would appear as if something is hidden or something is sinister. It should clearly spell out what the partnership is all about. You may understand it to mean that it is a relationship between a man and a woman but if research was to be done, there was a Bill that was passed in America that started with same sex marriages. These issues need to be clarified and that is the only grey area in as far as partnership is concerned even if they wanted it to be part and parcel of the Bill. It is because of the interpretation that it had problems.
On the age of the person who should get married or marry as well as the age for sexual consent is another grey area. For a 16 year old boy or girl to be involved in sexual intercourse and you go to the Marriages Act, it is saying one should get married at the age of 18 years. It shows that this was not clear; the two were not in sync, they should be the same. The age of majority should be 18 years of age. That one should be sexually active and consent to sex should be at the age of 18. This is what we found out from the communal lands.
On the criminalisation of HIV/Aids, a lot of people complained about it because in the majority of cases, it is the man who lives in town and in the past they were more educated than women and they would quickly discover that they are HIV positive. On seeing that the woman might be suffering from HIV, they would take her to be tested and blame her for infecting him. It would be good if that law could be scraped.
The law does not take the interest of anyone any further.
On the issue of marriage officers, they said the chiefs should also be marriage officers because that is in our Constitution. People accepted in toto the majority of the issues and that the people should be educated because the chief might then say that he may want a beast as payment for him to solemnise a marriage. There was serious concern that they should be educated about it so that there is systematic discharge of the duties. Some would totally agree and others would say people would cause them to pay. A number of people were saying this was welcome.
It had made things easier for them but the traditional marriage officers should be educated. I thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to add my voice to this debate. As I add my voice to the debate, I will start off by saying we need to remember whenever we debate that our
Constitution requires us to go out to the people and get their input. Whatever we are discussing here is from the people. Madam Speaker, most of the areas we went to with regards the Marriage Bill, most of the people particularly in the rural areas – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
Honourable sitting to my left side, please order.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker for your protection. Most of the people that we visited at the public hearings in the rural areas were very happy with the Marriage Bill because it spoke to acknowledging the customary marriage, the lobola. They were worried as to why we acknowledged the civil marriage, Chapter 5:11 more than we did our own customary marriage. When they heard that both marriages were brought to par and that they were both acknowledged, they were excited about that. Most of them were still of the opinion that if somebody is married in the customary law and somebody married under Chapter 5:11, they were given preferential treatment or 5:11 overruled the customary law. They were happy to hear that you wanted to make sure this will be done.
Madam Speaker, some of them were happy with the age of marriage to be aligned to 18 years. They were concerned about young children that were already married, what would happen to them. They suggested that Government must make sure that a budget was made with regards to children that will be taken out of these marriages. They wanted to know if children who got married before the age of 18, if this law is passed whether the law would enable removal of the children from their marriages and what would happen to children born out of that unlawful marriage. So it is important that we make sure that
Government puts this into consideration.
Madam Speaker, when they asked us these questions, we actually narrated to them. We made them aware of the SADC Model Law on the eradication of child marriages. There was also a situation in Malawi in 2015 whereby a female chief allowed over 300 child marriages. From that time, any chief that allowed a child marriage to take place, the chieftainship was actually dethroned. We also as a country need to find ways of inspiring and making sure that these children that come across such situations are protected and looked into. In Ghana, the Government takes the girl who marries early, sends her to boarding school, gives the parents or guardians looking after the children grants to make sure they are looked after because most of these children that go into these marriages – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May the Hon. Member be
heard in silence please.
HON. TOFFA: Most of these children that go into these child marriages come from poverty stricken backgrounds. So if you take them out of this situation and you do not actually cater for that child, they will go back again and get married. If these children are taken out of this environment and send to boarding schools that will be of great help to the nation. With that explanation, most of the communities seemed to embrace that and were very happy that the girl child will then be able to achieve whatever they want.
Madam Speaker, in most of the public hearings that we went to, when it came to the civil partnership section 40 (5), they were quite clear that they were not interested in particular with subsection (5) but they said section 40 as a whole was not bad. The reason they said that Madam Speaker, was because most of the families in our communities are made up of couples that live together as husband and wife. I am not talking about couples that maybe are having extra marital affairs but I am speaking to couples that actually live together as husband and wife and acquire properties during their stay. Madam Speaker, in the event that either the wife or the husband passes on, you find either family of both of them depending on who dies first; will come in and take all the properties and children because the couple was not traditionally or legally married. Looking at that kind of a scenario, they were happy with section 40.
They also spoke to the decriminalisation of the willful transmission of HIV/AIDS. They spoke to the fact that when women are pregnant, be it in any relationship or in a marriage set up, women are required to go for certain tests and within those tests they are required to undergo HIV/AIDS tests. So the woman is the first one to come home and disclose to her partner that she has tested HIV positive and the husband would in most cases blame the woman for bringing in that illness. So they felt that it was unfair and it should be decriminalised. Some of the women, I think it was in Lupane where one of the women who contributed spoke to the fact that there are other illnesses like flu for instance that if somebody passes on flu they are not arrested - what is so special about HIV and AIDS? They felt that decriminalisation of HIV and AIDS is unnecessary. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I see
the Minister is eager to move this Bill, I will just be brief. The issue of the Marriages Bill, I did not actually plan to debate it but there has been a lot that has been said about section 40 on civil partnerships. I just want to say that Zimbabwe as a nation does not live in isolation. We are certainly not living in the stone age. I have lived in other continents for a number of years. The most pertinent issues that most people were worried about in terms of civil partnership was; is it going to allow same sex marriage? Secondly, what will happen to those people who are already married? I am a Christian; we respect the sacrosanct of the marriage institution. If you read section 40, it does say a man and a woman, when it refers to civil partnership. I want to support this Bill in its entirety. This Bill is very liberal and as a liberal person, I am very much happy that at least now those that live together can actually have a civil partnership.
People are saying, let us repeal subsection (5) of the Bill, I disagree with that. Most of those people normally have three to five wives who are in this House. What subsection (5) is only doing is; even if you are married you can actually at the same time have a civil partner, as many as you can. This is already happening in this country. It is just legalisation so that those who are affected can have a legal standing to ensure that at least they are part of the person in terms of distribution of wealth and whatsoever. So I support this Bill in its entirety.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the Hon. Members for the robust debate around the Marriages Bill. I also want to thank all those that participated, the Committee on Justice that participated in the public hearings and for gathering the views of the people. I believe we have all been enriched by this exercise. In that regard Madam Speaker, allow me to respond to some of the issues, more specifically that were raised by the Committee because the Committee gathered the views of the generality of the people and just respond to some of them.
The Committee was of the view that we have lessons that we can learn from; the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriages and
Protecting Children Already in Marriage which creates a comprehensive mechanism for the State to offer financial and psychosocial support for children who would have been emancipated from marriages and the protection of children against child marriages. The Committee was also of the view that the age of consent to sexual intercourse should be addressed by the Bill and their view was that it should be raised from 16 to 18. Madam Speaker, I want to say that the recommendation that the SADC Model Law be effected is highly commendable and we believe when we look at the regulations that will be passed once the Bill becomes law we can incorporate some of the important issues that are highlighted in the model law. By and large, the majority of the things that you allude to in the model law, we have tried to capture them in the Bill but whatever is left I think we can address them.
Regarding the age of consent Madam Speaker, this Bill per se does not deal with age of consent. It is addressed in another Act, that is the Criminal Law Codification and Reform Act, where it looks at the crime of rape. However, I must add that we should learn to differentiate legal issues from issues that have to deal with morality. In countries where
the age of marriage is 18, they have robust educational sexual reproductive health programmes but they do not criminalise it. When you speak about raising the age of consent, you must also be mindful that you are now introducing a crime. You must also be mindful about the criminal capacity of these various children. In Zimbabwe, anyone below seven has no criminal capacity and that is straight rape; in fact from 12 downwards. From 12 to 16, the offence is having sex with a young person and above 16, it is not a criminal offence. I think the crafters of the law were mindful of reconciling the criminal capacity of the various age groups and criminalising somebody who is able to reconcile the wrongfulness of their act and be able to do an act that particular individual can be accountable for.
In Zimbabwe, young persons can be jailed for committing any other offence. Are we then going to say that anyone below 18, if they commit an offence, they cannot appreciate the wrongfulness of their act. This is just food for thought because this is not addressed in this particular Bill. It is addressed somewhere else in the code. I believe that we should also be mindful that if we criminalise it, what are we saying about access to sexual reproductive health like what Dr. Labode said because this will not be criminal. These boys and girls, whether we like it or not, indulge. When they indulge, because it is now criminalised, they will not be able to access sexual reproductive health. We must also be mindful that these young children also have rights that we also need to protect. So, I think when we come to the relevant Act, we should truly look into those issues before we clamour for that. Marriage per se comes with certain responsibilities. That is why we agree that the age of marriage should be 18. So, besides the issues of having sex, in marriage there are several commitments that come with it and we agree that it should be 18. To try to criminalise young people, 16 and above, I think we would have taken the law too far. Those are issues of morality that we can deal with within our families.
Madam Speaker, the Committee recommended that the application of the principles in the Matrimonial Causes Act relating to the distribution of property on divorce should be explicitly provided to
apply in unregistered customary law unions. The Matrimonial Causes Act in its current format only recognises the civil marriages when it comes to property dissolution.
Clause 5 of the Bill which provides for equality of marriages seeks to address the gap provided by the existing law of discriminating customary married spouses when it comes to property sharing upon dissolution of marriage. It should be noted that the Bill encourages people.
HON. TOFFA: Point of order Madam Speaker Ma’am.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order,
Hon. Toffa?
HON. TOFFA: I am sorry to interrupt the Hon. Minister. Madam
Speaker Ma’am, I am concerned that we are now bringing mealie-meal into Parliament like it is a supermarket – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Please
may you take your seats! Hon. Member in a red jacket, please take your seat. Hon. Chinotimba, did you bring the mealie-meal?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have decided that in my constituency as an Hon. Member of Parliament, I should assist people in giving them mealie meal and I now aim at grinding mealie-meal. My father is called Bhuruwayo and I have branded the mealie-meal as Bhuruwayo. Bulawayo is spelt differently, so my company is called Bhuruwayo Milling Company, it is producing Bhuruwayo Roller Meal and I have brought to this House samples.
So, my point of privilege was that as Hon. Members, we should not just be mere Members of Parliament, so I am going to give a 10kg bag of mealie-meal to the Hon. Speaker –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I will also give the same to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi and the Clerk of Parliament, Mr. Chokuda. This is to show that this is what we do as we assist our people and they should also do the same. I thank you – [Hear, hear.]- *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is true Hon. Chinotimba that we are all aware that mealie-meal is now a hard commodity to come by but you should have gone to the Speaker’s office as well as the respective people’s offices that you have given this mealie-meal and not bringing it to this House. We are so grateful that you have given us mealie-meal but in future, please take it to the respective people’s offices.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Chinotimba – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Take your seats
Hon. Members.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, the Committee recommended
that the Bill must not make all chiefs marriage officers by default.
Instead, the Minister…
*HON. J. CHIDAKWA: On a point of order! Madam Speaker, by
the same token, I am into the business of selling cellphones, so in future when I bring my phones here and give one to you, you should allow me to do so because precedence has been set by allowing Hon. Chinotimba to bring his mealie-meal into the Chamber and distributing it to you and the others.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The Committee was concerned about a blanket
approval of all chiefs as marriage officers. I take note of their recommendation. I think we can make sure it does not become automatic that all chiefs are marriage officers but some form of training is given so that this can be realised.
The Committee also recommended that Clause 11 must be amended for inclusion of every Ambassador, Consular-General to be authorised to be marriage officers in countries that they are a credited. I think it is a recommendation that is well received.
The other recommendation pertained to the digitalisation of the
Marriage Registry. I think this can be addressed in the regulations so that it can be given effect to. The Committee also recommended that it should be established whether marriages should be ‘in community of or out of community of property’ which is the current position according to the Married Persons Property Act.
Madam Speaker, concerning this; all marriages in Zimbabwe are
‘out of community of property’ unless the parties enter into anti-mutual contract prior to the marriage and this is in accordance with the Marriged Persons Act. So, the marriage regime in terms of property is well defined in our law – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! The Hon. Speaker, Adv Mudenda, has earlier on said that as Hon. Members, you should respect and honour yourselves that you do not make noise in this House. So, if you continue like this, it just means that you do not respect yourselves as Hon. Members.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I now turn to the recommendations by the
Committee pertaining to Clause 40, which has caused a lot of debate.
The Committee was of the view that because there has been a lot of contestation, debate and controversy around this Clause, we must remove it from the Bill. I want to thank all the Hon. Members that have debated and I must say that from the beginning, the intention was to protect women in scenarios where they can be taken advantage of.
Clause 40 was meant to address a lacuna on property sharing of spouses, not only in civil marriages as the case in the Matrimonial Causes Act but also the majority of spouses that are in unregistered customarily law unions. I just want to say that this Clause at any stage never permitted small houses and it was extremely disappointing that there was a wrong reading of the Clause to mean that it authorised small houses.
However, I must add that I am very happy that we have robust debate and there are some who have realised that perhaps we might need to relook at it at the Committee Stage and try to find a way that can accommodate both views. I remember at some stage, the Women Lawyers Association came to visit my office, some of them were angry about the Clause but after discussing with them, they agreed that it was not a very bad Clause. I want to thank the Hon. Members; Hon. Maphosa had a very compelling argument that we should keep this Clause and I also want to thank her for the research that she did.
What we said as the Executive, just to respond to Hon.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga was the context of the Executive in saying let us withdraw it is, having discussed here in Parliament and if the majority view is that we do not want it. We withdraw it and allow future generations to have the same thinking to enact it. That was the position, but as legislators I think we can propose a way of ensuring that we deal with it appropriately. I tend to agree that we need to look at it holistically.
There are certain men Madam Speaker, who manage to deceive a woman to believe that they are not married and set up a separate home divorced from the other house, and have property there. Like what Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga says, when people are in love they do certain stupid things. Perhaps the woman is the one with very brilliant ideas.
She is the one bringing a lot of money but because she is staying with this man that she calls a husband, they buy property and register in the husband’s name. The problem starts when the husband wants to migrate and suddenly he says I am married to so and so, and I am going with all these things.
These are the issues that we want addressed by this Bill to say that if you were living together and this household was known as belonging to the two of you, upon dissolution when you decide to go apart, the provisions of the Matrimonial Causes Act must apply as if you were married in terms of sharing the property. However, it did not say that it is authorising the unions. I think that is what clouded a lot of people and they decided that it was a bad clause. It is not this woman who forced this man to go and have this other marriage and this woman who found herself in this position, it was not out of her own making, but circumstances dictated that it should happened. Surely, should she lose her property because she was not married? This is what we are trying to address.
I take note of the recommendation by the Committee in terms of the repeal of Section 79 of the Code in terms of wilful transmission of HIV. I was asked in this august House what we are doing in terms of this clause and I had promised that I would put up a word that we amend the Code through the Marriages Bill so that we do away with the clause that dealt with wilful transmission of HIV.
I want to applaud the Hon. Members who debated. Indeed, what has been happening like what the Hon. Members have been debating is a pregnant woman, because of our treatment regimes is now compulsory for them to be tested for HIV. She goes to an antenatal clinic she is tested. She goes home and tells the husband I am positive. The husband rushes to the police station and reports the woman but it is the husband who may have brought the HIV. Also the stigma in terms of fighting HIV/AIDS worldwide, the trend is that criminalising it this way does not remove the stigma and does not help in fighting HIV/AIDS. I want to thank the Committee for supporting this and I think we will proceed.
The Committee recommended that the Minister of Justice must compile a report annually for presentation to Parliament on the progress made in implementation of the provisions of this Act. I think this recommendation is well received and I do not see any problem with it.
I now turn to responses on some of the issues raised by Hon. Members. Hon. Mushoriwa raised that the Bill does not put customary and civil marriages at the same level. I think Hon. Mushoriwa had not read the Bill correctly. Exactly what he is saying it does not do that is what it is now doing. He also raised that when chiefs solemnise marriages, lobola should be a requirement. Hon. Speaker, lobola is not a requirement for registration of certain marriages because of originality of such marriage. Also Zimbabwe embraces different cultures which do not believe in payment of lobola. However, let me say that the reason why our chiefs will allow them to be marriage officers because of the customary marriages that they administer. Ordinarily, in our communities when chiefs become marriage officers, they insist on this because it is our custom so it is taken care of because of our customary practises.
Hon. Karenyi submitted that there should be a provision that if we worked for assets together, we should share them equally. Property sharing after dissolution of marriages, like I said before is addressed by the Married Persons’ Act and the Matrimonial Causes Act. Hence, the reason why in clause 40 we wanted to invoke the provisions of the Matrimonial Causes Act if you stayed together as husband and wife for the purposes of equitable distribution of property.
Hon. Mamombe raised the fact that if the Bill is harmonising marriage laws, it should consolidate all relevant laws. The Bill seeks to harmonise customary law and civil marriages and not all laws. This Bill is simply harmonising the marriage laws. It will be another exercise if we are to look at other laws. She also raised the issue that the Bill does not address the issue of guardianship and I must add again that we have a separate law that deals with that.
Hon. Zengeya submitted that women who are customarily married to men who have civil marriages should be protected by the law in terms of inheritance upon death of the husband. Being in these two different marriages is a criminal offense currently known as bigamy. However, what Hon. Mushoriwa suggested that the headmen should be marriage officers in areas where chiefs preside over large geographical areas. The view is that we do not have shortage of marriage officers since we also have religious leaders who are marriage officers. Magistrates are marriage officers and other designated marriage officers.
Hon. Speaker, Hon. Ndlovu stated that people who cause under aged children to marry should be arrested and prosecuted. Again in the Bill, Clause 3 criminalises marrying an under aged child. He also submitted that inheritance law should be consolidated with the Marriages Bill. I answered that this is in a separate Bill. Hon. Biti submitted that we need one consolidated marriage and child’s rights law which covers property rights, succession and rights of children. I must say we have separate legislation. We do not have consolidated legislation like he is suggesting. Perhaps it is something we can discuss going forward but the thinking was we want to consolidate our marriage laws so that we have all our marriage regimes under one law. At the moment we have separate laws for inheritance succession and the property regime.
Again he mentioned that we should have created two marriages in
Section 5, that is a monogamous marriage which is equivalent of the old Marriages Act Section 5.1.1 and polygamous marriage which is equivalent of the African Marriages Act. Madam Speaker, Clause 5 does address the two types of marriages. What we did is we just took the two marriages, consolidated them under one Act and they have different subsections. We have a section for the monogamous and also for the polygamous marriage under one Bill. Hon. Biti suggested that the law should be that all marriages in Zimbabwe should be in community of property as men are disposing assets during subsistence of marriages.
Madam Speaker, marriages in Zimbabwe currently the property regime is under a different Act. His suggestion is well received but it is not covered in this Bill, it is covered in another Bill.
Clause 6 of the Bill states that the parties to any marriages have equal rights and obligations during the subsistence and dissolution of the marriage. This especially addresses wives who were previously regarded as having no legal capacity and were treated as the perpetual minors. Equality at dissolution of marriage must be understood within the context of the property regime governing the marriage concerned. Again parties are free to have a pre-marital contract to choose their property regime. Madam Speaker, Hon. Gonese raised that where people contracted a marriage outside Zimbabwe, where degrees of relationship in terms of consanguinity are not similar to our law, does that mean that marriage would be invalid in their countries of origin but valid in Zimbabwe or vice versa? Madam Speaker, in response to this my submission is that applicability of law will be based on the laws of country of origin.
I want also to acknowledge the contribution by Hon. Labode. She recommended that once we move the age of consent for sex to 18, we need to also have a provision that allows 14, 15, 16 and 17 year-olds who are sexually active to assess health services so that they can access family planning. Like I explained before, we need to discuss this issue when we deal with the code and it is not as simple as the people wanted to put it. Madam Speaker I think these are my responses to the Marriages Bill and I want to thank the Hon. Members and move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 11th March, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 and 3 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 4 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
ZIMBABWE MEDIA COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 8, 2019]
Forth Order read: Second Reading: Zimbabwe Media
Commission Bill [H.B. 8, 2019].
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
Speaker, I want to thank you. I present my second reading speech on Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill. The Media plays a critical role in the development of a country and its citizens, Zimbabwe’s mass media, the Press, radio, television and other multimedia are important source of information. The media provides news and analysis about what is happening inside the country and beyond our borders. It is within this background that I bring the Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill for your consideration. The Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill is a piece of legislation proposed that intends to address Government’s reforms in the media sector. The Bill, Madam Speaker is one of the three media Bills which intends to replace the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, commonly referred to as AIPPA.
The Bill aims to regulate the Zimbabwe Media Commission and provides for matters related to its establishment. Madam Speaker, the Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill makes additional provisions with regard to the Zimbabwe Media Commission provided for in Section 248 of the Constitution and whose functions are detailed in Section 249 of the Constitution. The objective of the Bill is to protect the rights to the freedom of expression and the freedom of the media granted under Section 61 of the Constitution. The Bill also seeks to extensively amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act by repealing all provisions relating to the regulation and control of the media. The Bill must also be read with and subject to various provisions of the Constitution such as Part I of Chapter 12, relating to the nature of independent commissions supporting democracy, of which the ZMC is one; Part I of Chapter 18 with respect to general and supplementary provisions relating to all constitutional commissions and Section 17 relating to gender balance. These aspects have not been restated in this
Bill. The Bill elaborates on the functioning of the Zimbabwe Media Commission. For ease of reference Madam Speaker, the relevant provisions of Chapter 12 of the Constitution relating to the establishment and functions of the commission are set out at full length as a preamble to the Bill.
So too is Section 61 of the Constitution which sets out the right to freedom of expression and freedom of the media. As I mentioned earlier the Bill seeks to give effect to Sections 61, 248 and 249 of the Constitution. Section 61 of the Constitution speaks on the right to freedom of expression and freedom of the media, while Section 248 and 249 set out the establishment, composition and functions of the
Zimbabwe Media Commission. The Bill also seeks to regularise the establishment of ZMC. Once set into law, the Bill will also replace, as I said before AIPPA that deals with the Zimbabwe Media Commission and its functions.
Madam Speaker, the importance of media of media laws cannot be overstated. Media contributes to improved governance of a nation and therefore I urge you to peruse the provisions of this Bill and as we debate on it, to pass this law because it is a very progressive law to our democratic dispensation. I thank you Madam Speaker and move that this Bill be read a second time. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I hereby present on behalf of the Committee and on behalf of my Chairperson Hon. P. Dube, the report of the Committee on the Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill that was prepared after wide consultation with all stakeholders in the media sector.
Madam Speaker, by way of introduction, the Zimbabwe Media
Commission Bill (H.B. 8, 2019) was gazetted on 9th August, 2019 as one of the three media Bills which intend to replace the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act [Chapter 10:27] (commonly referred to as “AIPPA”). Consequently, the Bill was referred to the Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services requiring the Committee to discharge its scrutinising function, so as to make essential recommendations. The Bill intends to regulate the Zimbabwe Media Commission (ZMC) and provides for matters incidental to its establishment.
METHODOLOGY
The Portfolio Committee on Information, Media and
Broadcasting Services conducted public consultations on the
Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill (HB.8.2019) in terms of Section
141 of the Constitution. The public consultations were conducted from
14 to 18 October, 2019. The Committee covered areas in Harare,
Mutare, Masvingo, Bulawayo and Gweru.
The public consultations were attended to by a wider cross section of the society; namely youths, pensioners, business people, representatives from different media organisations, Government officials, resident associations, and the general public. The Committee expresses its heartfelt gratitude to all stakeholders who contributed at the public consultations and those who made written submissions.
SUBMISSIONS ON THE ZIMBABWE MEDIA
COMMISSION BILL 3.1 MEMORANDUM
Stakeholders highlighted that the suggestion in the Memorandum section to the effect that “the Bill will extensively amend the Access to
Information and Protection of Privacy Act [Chapter 10:27],” is confusing because the Freedom of Information Bill specifically states that the Freedom of Information Bill will repeal the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act [Chapter 10:27]. It was recommended that there should be no reference to the amendment of AIPPA. If there should be any reference to that old Act of Parliament, such reference should relate to the repeal of the statute.
CLAUSE 2: INTERPRETATION
Stakeholders recommended that the definition of a media practitioner should be broad with inclusion of all media practitioners; that is content producers, artists, and camera persons and citizen journalists. There is need for the Bill to differentiate in terms of media practitioners as other stakeholders attributed that a difference exists between a broadcaster and a content producer, thus the term should be clearly defined.
Stakeholders were of the view that the Bill should adopt the definition of a journalist from AIPPA which defines it as a person who gathers, collects, edits or prepares news, stories, materials and information for a mass media service, whether as an employee of the service or as a freelancer. Others recommended that the definition of a professional journalist reads as, ‘any person who has attended a school of journalism recognised by the profession or any other person who possesses a university degree or equivalent, has undergone two years of practical training in a newsroom or newsroom setting and is regularly employed to gather, process and disseminate information, and earns his/her living essentially from editorial work’. Stakeholders highlighted the need for a definition of an interested person and the definition should ascribe to section 85 of the Constitution which speaks to fundamental human rights and freedoms.
CLAUSE 3: DISCHARGE OF FUNCTIONS BY
COMMISSION
This clause provides that members of the Commission other than the Chairperson shall not be full time employees of the Commission. Stakeholders informed the Committee that the Bill is silent on the term of office of the chairpersons of the Commission. They suggested that there should be clearly set time for the term of office to observe good governance and avoid abuse of office through corruption. It was further recommended that the provision of a full time Chairperson be viewed in relation to the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act on the separation and clarity of roles between the Chairperson and the accounting officer who is the Commission Secretary. Other stakeholders suggested that the term limit for commissioners be two years.
CLAUSE 6: DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMISSION
Stakeholders highlighted that the Bill is silent on gender apart from just making reference to the fact that the deputy of the Chairperson of the Commission should be the opposite gender. The Bill should emphasize and make reference to the constitutional provision in terms of gender by equalising gender composition in the Commission. Other stakeholders were of the view that the appointment of the Deputy Chairperson should remain as stated in the Bill as the consultation is done with the Committee guided by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders.
CLAUSE 7: SECRETARY AND OTHER STAFF OF
COMMISSION AND EXPERTS
Madam Speaker, you should realise that I am purely relating to the views as gathered. The recommendations from the Committee will come just after. Clause 7 provides for the appointment by the Commission of an Executive Secretary and other staff of the
Commission to run the affairs of the Commission but appointments must be made with the approval of the Minister, the Minister responsible for the Civil Service and the Minister responsible for Finance. Stakeholders highlighted that this is against the principle of corporate governance where the Commission has powers to appoint its own staff.
Stakeholders made reference to Section 234 (3) and 235 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which stipulates that Commissions must be independent and should not be subject to the direction and control of any one and no person may interfere with the functioning of the independent commissions. Stakeholders made emphasis on the violation of these sections by involvement of these Ministers in appointment of the Secretary and recommended that they must not be involved.
TERM OF OFFICE FOR COMMISSIONERS
The Committee was informed that the tenure of office of
Commissioners is not spelt out in this Bill. Stakeholders made reference to Section 320 (i) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which spells out the guidelines in terms of appointment and terms of all Commissions in Chapter 12. The section stipulates that every member of the Commission is appointed for a term of five years renewable for one term only. It was recommended that the Bill ascribes to this section.
QUALIFICATION OF COMMISSIONERS
The Committee was informed that the Bill should clearly spell out qualifications of people to be appointed to the Commission. Such qualifications should include their knowledge in the media as they will be dealing with media industry issues. Stakeholders were concerned that persons without any knowledge of media will find themselves as Commissioners.
CLAUSE 8: POWERS TO INVESTIGATE
The Bill gives the Commissioners the power to investigate issues when someone has not complained. Stakeholders highlighted that Commissioners should start investigation after someone has tendered a complaint. Other stakeholders recommended that the clause should be expunged as it gives excess power to the Commission which is prone to abuse. It was suggested that another board such as the Voluntary Media Council in Zimbabwe should be given the powers to investigate, following specific identified complaints. Additionally, the Committee was advised that Clause 8 (3) limits the number of people who can bring in complaints, thus violating Section 85 of the Constitution which speaks to fundamental human rights and freedoms.
CLAUSE 10: CONDUCT OF INVESTIGATION
The Committee was informed that Section 10 (1) of the Bill stipulates that the Commission in its discretion may conduct an investigation, hearing or inquiry in the form of public or closed proceedings. Stakeholders expressed dissatisfaction with the conduct of an investigation on the discretion of the Commission. They recommended that investigation should be commenced following a complaint from members of the public.
Stakeholders recommended that Clause 10 (3) should be redrafted by stating the powers, rights and privileges of the Commission of Inquiry. Others recommended that the section should fall away as it makes people swear; it adjudicates in a manner which is not related to section 61 of the Constitution on freedom of expression and media. Sections 9 to 18 of Commissions of Inquiry Act give excess power to the Commission and are open to abuse.
In Clause 10 (4), stakeholders highlighted that police have no role in investigating any issues pertaining to professional journalism. It was recommended that the Bill completely removes the section that unleashes the services of police in cases where journalists will have carried themselves in ways that could be in contravention of the provisions in the Bill. Other stakeholders informed the Committee that police should be allowed to investigate media practitioners because they will be fueling despondency in the community and they are the law enforcement agents. It was suggested that when dealing with this issue, the Committee should take into consideration Section 61 (5) (a) to (d) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
The Committee was informed that the issuance of a certificate be done through the court of law not through the Commission. It was highlighted that the Minister can make an application for issuance of the certificate.
CLAUSE 17: FUNDS OF COMMISSION
In Clause 17 (b), the Bill states that the Commission shall accept donations, grants or bequests after it has consulted the Minister; this was highlighted as problematic as it gives the Minister the power to redirect a Commission which is supposed to be independent. It was recommended that the Minister should not be involved in the business of the Commission.
Additionally, it was highlighted that Clause 17 omits the establishment of the Media Fund and it was recommended that the Bill should include the establishment of the fund to bail out struggling media houses. The funding should come from taxes, accreditation fees and levies. Other stakeholders recommended that there should be a media fund for students who are on attachment. This will help through allowances that will cushion them in their welfare.
CLAUSE 18: COMMISSION REPORT TO THE MINISTER
Stakeholders were of the view that the submission of a report to the
Minister should be for the purpose of its tabling before Parliament. The Bill provides for the submission of financial reports and leaves out reports on the activities of the Commission. However, other stakeholders highlighted that the Commission should report directly to Parliament through the relevant Portfolio Committee and the Minister should not be involved as it affects the independence of the Commission.
CLAUSE 21: REGULATIONS
The Bill does not provide for the development of the media industry and how it should be regulated. The Bill is silent on the provision for the registration and accreditation of journalists. It was recommended that the Bill provides for the registration of mass media services as well as accreditation of journalists.
Stakeholders highlighted that the Bill is silent on the issue of coreregulation which by the way is an agreed position from stakeholders under the Media Alliance in Zimbabwe (MAZ) umbrella. The Cabinet principles which were signed by Cabinet and the Information and Media Panel of Inquiry (IMPI) Report done on 2013, also spoke to the issue of core-regulation. In this regard, stakeholders recommended that coreregulation whereby ZMC will exist alongside a professional body be included in the Bill and is clearly spelt out. The Committee was informed that regulation must take citizen’s interest, ensure media autonomy and editorial independence. Thus, ZMC should be concerned with accreditation and administrative issues but the issue of professional conduct must be left to another body such as the Voluntary Media Council which a number of media practitioners subscribe to.
Clause 21 also gives the Minister the power to draft and administer regulations. It was recommended that the Minister must be discharged there to avoid impingement on independence of the Commission
because the executive through the involvement of the Minister will be unconstitutional and ministers are appointed from political parties.
The Committee was informed that Clause 21 (3) stipulates that regulation could provide for penalties and fines that include imprisonment to be imposed; this was referred as tantamount to going back to AIPPA. The Bill is silent on the role of the ZMC in promoting the right enshrined in Sections 61 and 62 of the Constitution. It was recommended that some provisions be revised for the Commission to play an active role in monitoring and taking the lead in ensuring the safety and security of media practitioners.
COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS
The Committee observed that there are a number of Bills repealing
Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act (AIPPA), thus the
Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill together with the Freedom of
Information Bill should repeal AIPPA.
The Committee was in agreement with the submission from the public that the definition for media practitioners should be broadened. However, the Committee commended that the definition should not include citizen journalists as it is difficult to regulate the practices of citizen journalists.
Under Clause 7, the Committee was in support of the submission that employment for the Secretary and other staff of the Commission should remain solely with the Commission so as to comply with Section 234 and 235 (3) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
Regarding the qualification of Commissioners, the Committee was of the view that the provision of section 248 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which stipulates that members of the ZMC must be chosen for their integrity, their competence in administration, their knowledge and understanding of human rights issues, and best practices in media matters is sufficient in addressing the concerns of the stakeholders.
In Clause 2,1 the Committee highlighted that there must be a clause that create a co-regulation framework actualised through the Media Council.
RECOMMENDATIONS
The Committee makes the following recommendations:
That in Clause 2, the definition for a media practitioner should be broadened to include artists, content creators and camera persons and excludes citizen journalists;
That in Clause 3, the term of office for the Chairperson should be five years and renewable once;
That in Clause 7, appointment of the Secretary and other staff of Commission should solely remain the duty of the Commission and should not be subject to the direction and control of anyone;
That the Bill should ascribe to section 248 (2) of Constitution of
Zimbabwe regarding qualification of Commissioners;
That in Clause 8, the Commission on its own motion may instruct board of established media practitioners to investigate or inquire into any action on the part of any person that constitutes, or is likely to result in a violation of any of the rights protected under section 61 of the
Constitution;
That in Clause 8 (3), the Bill should not limit the number of people who can bring in complaints so as to comply with section 85 (1) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe;
That Clause 10 (3 and 4) relating to the conduct of investigation in accordance with section 9 to 18 of the Commission of Inquiry Act and involvement of police during investigation respectively should be expunged as it adjudicates in a manner which is not related to section 61 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe;
That in Clause 10 (8), the Minister should approach the High Court if the information is prejudicial to national defence or economic interests;
That in Clause 17, the Commission should accept any donations, grants or bequests made by any person or organisation with the approval of the Parliament of Zimbabwe;
That Zimbabwe Media Development Fund should be formed to address issues of community media development, capacity building, trainings and technology issues administered by the Commission;
That in Clause 18, reports should be submitted annually to
Parliament through the Minister responsible;
That there should be a clause that creates a co-regulation framework actualised through the Media Council;
That in Clause 21 (1), the regulations should be drafted by the
Commission itself with the approval of Parliament of Zimbabwe; and
That in Clause 21 (3), the Bill should remove imprisonment imposed for contraventions of the regulations, but if it is a criminal offence, it should be referred to the relevant institution.
CONCLUSION
It is commendable that the Ministry has taken steps to repeal AIPPA, and to replace old unpopular law with new media laws such as the Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill. However, there remains other issues related to the existence and role of a Media Council that must be given abrupt attention to bring the Bill in line with sections 61 and 62 of the Constitution. The Ministry is commended to immediately work on the law that will stipulate the establishment of the Media Council. The recommendations proffered above could assist the current Bill in achieving its stated objectives and the Committee will bring amendments during Committee Stage.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Madam Chair, the conclusion given by the
Hon. Minister in his first submission of this Bill speaks to the importance of media freedom. As I sit, Hon. Chair, let me highlight to you that currently, Zimbabwe has 19 laws that directly or indirectly affect media practice. I implore upon the Hon. Minister that the commitment that he was doing during the Marriages Bill, where it has been discovered that there are various other laws that have a direct impact on a marriage set up; we need to consolidate all those laws and make them into one consolidated piece of legislation.
The same approach must be taken with regards to media legislation where we have 19 laws which are currently impacting on the conduct and professional work ethic of a journalist. We need to consolidate all those laws for us to have a true media reform process. To have these piecemeal reform processes will take us time and make us move in circles, we will not achieve our intended objectives. This will be presented again at Committee Stage; this is the Report of your Committee. I thank you.
HON. K. PARADZA: Madam Speaker, we are dealing with a
profession that has been under siege for the past 18 years. This Parliament is going to go down in history as the Parliament which is going to change the media landscape in this country. I am happy to be part of that Parliament.
The President himself has volunteered to and therefore, as Members of Parliament, who are we to say something which is different from this. The media is regarded as the fourth State so all progressive governments and countries across the world have actually stopped regulating the media. For example, the first amendment of the American
Constitution says “Congress shall make no law that infringes on media freedom”. This is well captured in our Constitution as well that we must not temper with freedom of the media and of the press, that is in Sections 61 and 62 of the Constitution.
I was part of the Committee that went right round the country to seek opinion of our citizens. Our citizens want a media that is free, a media that is not criminalised, which is able to inform, educate and entertain our citizens. That is basically the role of the media.
The other issues, just to sum up to what Hon. Chikwinya has said, the media in this country has tried to self regulate for the past 18 years but this has not worked. So what the people out there and even the stakeholders have told us is that we must go for co-regulation, which is very important and Government is going to be included in that. The Zimbabwe Media Commission Bill is going to create the media council, which is the one which is going to regulate the media. This is the trend all over the world.
We were dispatched to Kenya by this Parliament, Hon. Sibanda, myself and Hon. Chikwinya and this is working very well in Kenya. The Kenyan model is very clear and not only that, the government also is funding this media council and this is what we want. We want the Government to fund this because we want a media which is vibrant. The media which is going to have capacity to inform the people of what Government programmes are and what the people are doing and so forth. Without a free media, we will not go anywhere. We want our media to be free, give them freedom. Even in our discussions with the President, he is very clear; give the media all the freedom they need. So, let us give them that freedom. These reforms are not conditional, you must take note of that and I am happy that His Excellency is with us on that one.
Madam Speaker, we must create an employment council for the media industry. For the past 40 years, we did not have an employment council for the media industry. So, it is disjointed and so forth, so we think that with this media council, apart from dealing with the ethics and also the code of conduct, they will also create employment council for the media council.
Part of the issues why we are under sanctions is because of this law, this Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act which criminalises the profession of journalism. It is good that this has come at a time when we are going to repeal this law and also we have those two laws in place where the media is going to be free.
Madam Speaker, the other issue which is in this Bill, which must be scrapped, is to involve the police. We must not involve the police in this profession, what for? It is just like what we were talking about the Marriages Bill where if you infect somebody with HIV and so forth you do not have to be criminalised. Why should you criminalise this profession?
Progressive Governments all over the world have stopped regulating the media and the sooner we realise that the better because right now whether we like it or not, a person with a cell-phone is there. He is the reporter, editor and the distributor of news. It is no longer what it used to be. The traditional media is gone. That alone must inform us of how we must proceed. I thought I must add my voice to that including especially co-regulation and decriminalisation of the media and also funding of the media council. Those are the three major issues. I am happy about that. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to say those few words. I am passionate about that Hon. Speaker because I am a journalist. I want the media in this country to be free and not to be controlled. Government has no role in controlling the media. It must be free.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th March, 2020.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): I have
received a non-adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6A, 2019].
Consideration Stage: With leave, forthwith.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6A, 2019]
Amendments to Clauses 2, 10, 13 and 17 put and agreed to
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6A, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the
Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have to announce to the
House that I have received a non-adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the International Treaties Bill [H. B. 10A, 2019].
Consideration Stage: With leave, forthwith.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10A, 2019]
Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10A, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the
Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House
adjourned at Three Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 10th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST
HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 5 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: On a point of order Madam President. I have noticed that on several occasions, Hon. Ministers leave the House soon after Questions without Notice and they do not wait to respond to Questions with Notice. Through you Madam President, can you urge them to remain seated after Questions without Notice so that they can attend to Questions with Notice so that our Order Paper is not clogged with deferred questions? I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Senator.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
^^HON. SEN. MOHADI: Madam President, I want to thank you
for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Presidential Speech. I also want to thank the mover of this motion, Hon. Sen. T. Muzenda.
Most of what was said by the President has been debated. I will only dwell on the Command Livestock Programme where most people in Matabeleland region lost a lot of livestock; cattle, goats and sheep due to drought. More than 10 000 cattle were recorded as having died, of which those which died in the forest were not recorded. I would like to thank the Deputy Minister of Agriculture who responded to the plea and promised that the programme would be revitalised in due course.
Madam President, the issue of small grains was raised by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, in his Speech, of which that it would be of much help to the people of Matabeleland region because we receive very little rainfall. The President also talked about climate change which has befallen the country, saying that as a nation, we should be prepared to live with it. The water table has been affected and the boreholes are drying up as well and there is great need of water for both people and livestock. I would like to thank the President who promised that more boreholes would be drilled countrywide but putting more emphasis on those areas which lie in Region Five.
Madam President, the President also talked about the drought that has affected the country and promised that no one will die of hunger.
Thanks Lord no one has died of hunger to date. He also promised that Government would make plans to import maize so that every hungry person gets food. With these few words, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Madam President. I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th March, 2020.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC
COMMITTEE ON INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON
THE IMPLEMENTATION OF EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES IN THE MINING SECTOR ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Madam President, I move that the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Implementation of Empowerment Programmes in the Mining Sector which was superseded by the prorogation of the First Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: The reason why we wish the motion to
be restored on the Order Paper is that it a very important topic and a thorny issue especially to people who come from areas where these mining activities are taking place. The motion was only debated by three Senators and let me take this opportunity to thank them for debating this motion. It is my request and wish that you allow this report to be restored on the Order Paper because I think all the chiefs have an interest to debate this motion as the custodians of our land and they are getting nothing.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President. I
want to support the motion which is before us. The motion should be put back on the Order Paper because we did not adequately debate it.
*HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President. I
have stood up in support of Hon. Sen. Mbohwa for the motion to be brought back on the Order Paper because the motion touches on our communities. Therefore for us to debate for a short time, we would not have done justice to it as the Senate representing the communities. So we plead with you that the motion be restored on the Order Paper so it is debated adequately to enable us to come up with resolutions that represent our constituencies as a way to fulfil our mandate as Parliament. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you Madam President. I also stand up in support of the motion to be restored on the Order Paper because as a Committee, we were not yet through with our public hearings in order to come up with good recommendations which help the country. I am in support that the motion be restored on the Order Paper and debated adequately. It will also give us ample time to do our visits so that we come up with something tangible.
Motion put and agreed to.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, before we go
further, the Clerks-at-the-Table are requesting that when Hon. Senators are debating, you raise up your voices so that they hear, because the microphones are not working well. They are even asking that if you cannot speak louder, you can come closer so that they know how to take their notes. Thank you.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE WOMEN POLITICAL LEADERS GLOBAL
FORUM HELD IN ICELAND
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I rise to move the motion standing
in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Women Political Leaders Global Forum held in Reykjavik, Iceland from 18th to 20th November, 2019.
HON. SEN. M. R. DUBE: I second.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Madam President. Hon.
Mable Chinomona, the President of the Senate, led a parliamentary delegation to the Women Political Leaders Global Forum held in
Reikjavik, Iceland from 18th to 20th November, 2019. The rest of the delegation comprised the following members and officers of Parliament.
Hon. Sen. Angeline K. Tongogara, Hon. Sen. Mildred Dube, Mr. C. K.
Guvi – Director in the President of the Senate office, Mr. Evans Gorogodo- External Relations Officer and Mr. Simon Chifamba, Security Aide to the President of the Senate.
Official Opening Ceremony:
Ms. Katrin Jacobsdottir Prime Minister of Iceland officially opened the forum. In her remarks she highlighted that the Forum was made for women political leaders to share ideas on and thoughts on making the world a better place...
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, if I may ask to
interrupt the Hon. Senator before she goes any further. We have asked for the Minister of Health and Child Care to come and give us a ministerial statement pertaining to the Coronavirus. He even said if he cannot do it soonest, he may come on Thursday but we thought we should have it now. –[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear]-
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CORONAVIRUS
THE STATE OF AFFAIRS WITH REGARDS TO THE
CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Thank you Madam President. I am glad to have this opportunity to be able to give the Ministerial Statement on the state of affairs regarding the Coronavirus outbreak here in Zimbabwe. As you are aware, this is a problem which started in China and for some time people thought maybe it might not come to Africa, but it is right here next door to us in South Africa now.
Madam President, I hereby present before this august House the state of affairs with regards to the Coronavirus outbreak. This outbreak has become a worldwide phenomenon and I just want to give you the background on the evolution of this outbreak. We say NOVEL because it is a new virus which has now been renamed COVID-19. This started on the 30th December, 2019 as a cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown origin reported to the China National Health Commission on the 7th of January, 2020.
The source of the outbreak was traced in Huanan Sea Food
Wholesale outside a market which was then closed on the 1st January, 2020. COVID 19 is a respiratory infection caused by Coronaviruses. If I may hasten to add that there are thousands of Coronaviruses and this new one was therefore named COVID-19. They all cause illnesses ranging from a common cold to severe disease such as the middle eastern respiratory syndrome and also what was generally referred to as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).
The outbreak in China is from a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans. Coronaviruses are transmitted between animals to humans and from humans to humans. It is what we call a zoonistic disease. The symptoms of the COVID-19 include fever, chest pain, chills, and difficulty in breathing, headache, sore throat, cough, pneumonia and even kidney failure. I am not trying to frighten anyone because I can see everyone is now feeling their parts but this is the reality.
The Coronavirus infection is highly infectious and can be spread through aerosols or through the coughing, sneezing and close personal contact with an infected person such as touching or shaking hands, touching an infected object like a door knob then touching your mouth or face without washing your face can also spread the virus. Faecal contamination is also one of the roots of spreading the virus although it is very rare.
In order to reduce the risk of infection with the new Coronavirus, it is important to avoid close contact with anyone with a cold or flu like symptoms. Prevent unprotected contact with farm or wild animals, cover the nose and mouth when coughing and sneezing with tissue paper or flex elbow, wash hands with soap and running water after sneezing and coughing and when caring for the sick and after toilet use, before eating food, during and after preparing food, continuous washing of hands because hands are dirty and after handling animals and animal waste – it can be worse.
As of today, there are no cases of coronavirus in Zimbabwe. The majority of cases, which is 80 904 are all from China but cases have also now been reported in 94 countries. South Africa has recorded a total of seven cases so far. Around 19th February, we had 3 773 people who had passed through our ports of entry and they had been placed on self quarantine and of these, 2 000 were Zimbabwean students who were studying in China. They were on self quarantine from that period where we were carrying out surveillances to ensure that we detect any symptoms at an early stage.
I can also advise, Madam President, that we had a female Zimbabwean traveler who we identified through our surveillance system at Robert Mugabe International Airport having noted that she had been to the epicenter of this coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan. In order to protect our nation, the candidate had to be immediately isolated. To me this shows that our system is working well and it is a sign of good preparedness.
As we indicated before, our laboratory testing for CORVID-19 is also fully functional and our scientists have managed to test the travelers and confirmed them to be negative for coronavirus as authorities in China had also confirmed about this particular lady. So we can guarantee the nation that there is no coronavirus in Zimbabwe. We will however, as per protocol, continue to monitor all the candidates for up to 21 days. Other countries say 14 days but we decided to go seven days more.
Our protocol continues to be stringent and protective of our nation and to further strengthen our surveillance, a scientific approach requiring all travelers coming from China and the other affected countries are to be screened and quarantined for that period in China and if they are found to be safe, that is when they can be able to travel to Zimbabwe. When they get to Zimbabwe, they will be subjected to a further 21 days quarantine.
We would like to urge the public to remain vigilant against this disease. It is important that people contact the nearest health centre provider for the correct information on COVID-19. We have seen a lot of social media misinformation. That is why I also felt that it was very important that we come here and update the Senate. We want to say that all those with plans to visit China are in the mean time being discouraged to postpone the visits unless absolutely necessary and all the other countries which are affected, we are recommending that just stay at home and be safe and we keep Zimbabwe clean.
Let us have a look at the response to the coronavirus outbreak by Zimbabwe. The national response, Madam President, mechanism for surveillance and early detection of any possible cases was activated on 24th January, 2020 and by mid February, the capacity building of all identified thematic areas to deal effectively with any cases had been conducted.
On 22nd January, we managed to visit Robert Mugabe International
Airport to assess the airport and port health state of preparedness. On
the same day, we also held a press conference to discuss the Ministry’s preparedness for the COVID-19 and in a meeting attended by the airport management, all key airport staff and media were available. We also held bilateral discussions, Madam President, with the Chinese Embassy. We further had a tour of Victoria Falls International Airport and also the ground port at Victoria Falls to assess their surveillance system, the quarantine and isolation facility and the district of Hwange state of preparedness. We found the airport at Victoria Falls as the best facility in terms of isolation and quarantine facilities.
on 31 January the National Rapid Response Team, through the Emergency Operations Centre completed a day long coronavirus readiness check list for Zimbabwe to see what is in place, what the gaps are, what can be done and what has to be done. The team came up with a budgeted plan for Bulawayo’s Joshua, Nqabuko Airport, Beitbridge Ground Port and Plumtree Ground Port. We also managed to visit all these to assess their readiness to detect and manage any possible cases of COVID-19. We shall continue to do the visits, Madam President, and I have personally made the assessments and I have been to all the border areas. This coming week, I will be visiting the northern borders to make sure that we have thorough foolproof border protection.
We are also guided by the WHO risk assessment and the current risk assessment from WHO indicates that China’s level of alertness is now very high and the rest of the world has also become very high. In fact in China, the levels are now going down while the rest of the world it is now going up. There is a very rapid spread of the virus worldwide besides in China. The number of deaths in China have gone down and so has the number of cases. So, it becomes very relevant that we sensitse all our professionals. We have been in touch with our professionals, the College of Primary Care Physicians, the Zimbabwe Medical Association and there shall be ongoing education and training of our doctors, nurses, physicians. Case management training is very essential so that by the time any of our doctors interact with a patient who is suspected of coronavirus, they can be able to manage them accordingly.
We held training on 17th February at Wilkins Infectious Disease Hospital where we trained a total of 70 health care workers and this is going to continue. We are going to be inviting and bringing forward more trainers and the floor staff were shown how it is done at Wilkins Hospital – how to handle a patient who comes in with infection and how they have to look after the cases, the isolation facility, the quality and how it should be set up.
This cascading of training to establish isolation facilities is continuous right through the country. So Madam President, we have brought people for training so that they can go back to their institutions and copy what is being done at the main isolating hospital. We have asked each and every hospital to identify an isolation room or rooms where they can be able to isolate a patient if the virus comes to Zimbabwe and it happens to be found at Bindura Provincial Hospital; I am just saying this as an example, not that there is anything in Bindura – [Laughter.] – we want each and every hospital to have an isolation room so that if at all they have a case or a suspected case, they can be able to handle it then.
The Train the trainers were drawn from Harare, Kadoma, Mutare and most of the cities of Zimbabwe; this also includes the private health care institutions, private hospitals, private laboritories and this training will be continuous with the support of the National Rapid Response team and also from the World Health Organisation (WHO) and FSF.
Madam President, I would like to indicate that a budget was prepared and submitted to the Ministry of Finance, which stands at US$5.2 million. Part of it has been availed to us and it is coming in franchise. We have reconvened a national task force on epidemic prone diseases with the Inter-agency Coordination Committee today as a forum to the one that was convened on the 24th of January, 2020. I would like to indicate that the Chinese Embassy has indicated its willingness to assist us in the sprucing up of our isolation treatment unit at Wilkins Hospital and all other isolation rooms. Our port health staff will share information with the Chinese to facilitate follow after and monitoring.
The Embassy will facilitate translation services and ports of entry and isolation for ease of communication. The Embassy will also show locations where Chinese people are in Zimbabwe so that we can do more follow ups of the Chinese and also the Zimbabwean students who have come from China.
The Zimbabwean students in China are all safe and well taken care of their day to day needs, including facilitating communication, food and lessons and the Embassy is in contact with our Zimbabwean students. The Chinese borders are not closed but they are discouraging their citizens from travelling to Zimbabwe. In terms of awareness, this is a continuous process and we have prepared for printing information, education and communication materials for radio, television and other media blitz and job ads to assist medical and laboratory staff. I am sure we have all seen on television, WhatsApp and SMS messages which are being relayed regarding personal hygiene.
One other issue which we have taken care of Madam President is that of protecting our staff. All those who are working at the borders, we have ensured that they are well protected. We are ensuring that all our staff is well trained in terms of protection. We do not want to end up with our own personnel being infected by the COVID-19. We have job ads, strategies, supplies of recommended medicines which are prepositioned. We have personal protective equipment, test kits and other requirements for managing any of the cases. They must be adequately protected so that they render the services properly.
We have constantly engaged the media in order to keep the population of Zimbabwe updated as the outbreak of the virus has been evolving. As a new disease, there is quite a lot that we now know but there is still a lot that we do not know. My team of experts will continue getting the updates from WHO, the African Union Centre for Disease Control and continue passing on information using the various communication platforms. I want to indicate to the Hon. Senators here present that, please be worry be aware of the fact that there is no vaccine yet for the control of COVID 19. What is available at the moment is as a result of some tests which were carried out by the Chinese and also
one of the nations in Asia where they found that the use of the current anti-retroviral, the ARVs that we use, one specific one called kaletra, which is a combination antiretroviral which has what is called lopinavir and ritonavir and also in combination, if used, appear to work; together with another booster called anti- interferon, alpha interferon or an alpha interferon that can be able to reduce or stop the spread of the coronavirus.
The Israelis have also come up with some form of medication including ‘quick-fix’ vaccine which is still to be tried. So, that is the only form of treatment which is there at the moment. There are quite a number of cases which have been sailed from this particular combination treatment. We have also read about the use of chloroquine; normally chloroquine is used for the treatment of malaria. Everyone has been trying anything possible and there was a little bit of success in these. These are all trial and error mechanisms. At the moment, I also want to indicate that we are lucky that we have that kaletra available here in Zimbabwe and we made sure that it is distributed to all our treatment centres.
What we are building on is the availability of the booster, the alpha interferon and we should be having it very soon. However, on the kaletra, we can be able to manage the patients with ease when the disease comes. At the same time, as you saw, we managed to test the candidate from Wilkins because we have already acquired the test kits and we have that equipment. We are very lucky there in that we have five sets, five platforms and what was required on all those was just the test kits to use. We have very high calibre test equipment from high calibre manufacturers, high standard equipment for the testing of this virus. So, there we are covered and I can assure you that this is so. The only problem is that the type of testing platform that we have takes a bit longer. At the moment, it takes at least 5 hours before we get the results but it is better than the previous platforms which would take at least one week. We are waiting for the arrival of the rapid test kits which takes about 15 minutes just like when we are testing for HIV/AIDS which takes about 15 minutes. Still, with those, if it tests positive, we still have to go back to the five hour one because it is what we call the definitive test scheme. If someone comes negative on the rapid test, we do not proceed to the confirmatory; it is only when they are positive on the rapid test.
To date, once again, I want to emphasise and re-emphasise, in fact,
I put it in capitals, to date, there is no confirmed case of COVID-19 in Zimbabwe. As at the 8th of March, the 105 cases of COVID-19 cases were confirmed worldwide and 3584 deaths were recorded and this is reported from 86 countries and the majority is still from China. The number of African countries who have reported confirmed cases have also increased to eight (8). I was in Tanzania the day before yesterday. I just came back from the airport. I came here straight from the airport. I do not have corona. I think I was quite careful. I was tested and I did not alarm the machine, I am still safe. It is not like in Iran where the
Vice President is positive with COVID 19. The Deputy Minister of
Health and not the Minister of Health is also positive.
This is a reality and it is happening. There are also other senior –
[HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, can we please
have one meeting because those behind you want to listen to the Minister.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: There are so many other senior officials in other countries as well who have acquired this condition. It is a very serious issue. For Zimbabwe, I will have to make that statement at the end as to how I really see it. In terms of the country’s situation again, our preparedness measures have been stepped up through heightened surveillance systems at national, provincial and district level with special focus on all ports of entry throughout the country ever since we had the outbreak in South Africa.
We have daily written updates which are being provided to the nation from the office of our Secretary for Health. We realise that a lot of people were ending up without any information and not being fully informed. So I instructed that the Secretary for Health gives out a statement every day. We have to fight rumour mongering.
Misinformation is the biggest problem. I would like to say that we now have our column where this statement is issued on a daily basis so that you will be able to counter any false information.
I was surprised yesterday Madam President, to read that I had been at a press conference here in Harare with relatives of an absconded patient yet I was in Tanzania. That is the level of misinformation which is really bad. It is just to smear and cause alarm and despondency. There are people who are waiting for the virus to appear in Zimbabwe sooner, which is a very sad state of affairs. We all say we do not want to have the virus here in Zimbabwe. We are fighting by all means to make sure that we do not get the virus in Zimbabwe yet other people are actually saying it is too late; it should have arrived a long time ago. These are very mischievous people and I do not think it is being done on a political basis. It is being done by people who are just mischievous.
Training of our health workers continues. Today we have quite a lot of doctors who are being trained in Kadoma on case management.
As I came here I was actually speaking to them. We now have dedicated isolation facilities. We want to improve the ones in Bulawayo. As we go on a province by province basis, we have received further protective kits from the British. They gave us £100 000 worth of protective kits – masks, goggles and all that. At the same time, they are spending £1 700 000 for the creation of a National Response Centre which is situated at Parirenyatwa Hospital – the old central hospital. Once it is completed, it should be in a week or two; we will have an opening ceremony and we will invite all the Members of Senate who can attend that function.
The Covid-19 Preparedness Response Plan is there. We shall make it available – it is being finalised; just a few touches here and there. We are being assisted by UNICEF and WHO. So we will make that available.
We are also giving travel guidelines to those who are going out discouraging them from going out especially to countries which are affected and at the same time we have been proactive and advising our embassies to generally advise people to go and see their doctors before they travel. We are saying just be checked by your doctors. We are not forcing anyone but giving advice. It is not an absolute requirement. To those who are outside who want to come to Zimbabwe to just go and be checked to see if they do not have any symptoms or to see if their systems are in order rather than them coming here, they get to the airport, they are sick and then we have to quarantine and isolate them.
Let me just give you some figures Madam President of the numbers of travellers who are arriving from other countries with confirmed cases of Covid-19 as at 08 March 2020.
Port of Entry | Total No. of Travellers | Travellers under Surveillance |
Robert Mugabe Airport | 5 585 | 16 |
Victoria Falls Airport | 937 | 54 |
Victoria Falls Road | 272 | 5 |
J.M. Nkomo Airport | 428 | 81 |
Beit Bridge Road | 120 | 35 |
Plumtree | 54 | 3 |
We have put systems in place at all these border posts. We have had to utilise some of the facilities which were being used by Immigration. They are now being used by Port Health. The cages which are there are now Port Health cages. In comparison to what was also being circulated on the social media where there was a small desk with torn papers and scribbling about Coronavirus; it is all fake information. We have very nice cages where the Port Health authorities are behind the cages and they take the temperatures from within.
Before that, there would have been another Immigration Officer who would have verified where the traveller is coming from. They have got all the details and they put them down on paper. There are a lot of people who come through Beitbridge – 13 000 a month and six million a year. It gets worse during holiday times. We have had to re-enforce and make sure that all the Immigration Officers at the ports work together with the Port Health authorities. It cannot be left to the Port Health authorities only. Likewise, the Police and Defence Forces are all there and working as one team at our borders.
There is a case of a Mutare woman who returned from China more than a month ago on 24th January. She presented to her General Medical Practitioner and was then referred to Wilkins Hospital on 6th March for COVID-19 tests but unfortunately, she died before she got to the hospital. So I wanted to clarify that to you so that you do not follow the information that may be coming through the social media Madam President. She actually died before getting to the hospital and then because she was dead, they had to move the body into an isolation room and then go through the process of taking samples, send the samples for testing, wait for five hours before the results. We were only called at 2230 hrs to be told of what the result was. So the result came back negative.
The latest case referred to Wilkins Infections Disease Hospital is that of a suspected case of a 26 year old man who came into Zimbabwe on 14th February from Thailand. He presented at Wilkins Hospital on 8th March and this was more than 14 days after arriving from Thailand, as a referral from a private institution where he had reported of a two day history of coughing mainly at night, fever and sneezing. On admission to Wilkins, he did not meet the WHO case definition of a suspected case but was still earmarked for a COVID-19 test due to intensified surveillance that the country has adopted. So we still wanted to make sure to test him especially since he had been referred to our Wilkins Hospital.
The patient was therefore screened. What happens is that once a patient arrives, they come through the back and are placed in an isolation room. The team goes through the front where they then gown-up and the gowning up process takes at least 45 minutes. You have to put on the long gloves, the over shoes, the space suit, the smaller gloves, the face mask, goggles, then a balaclava and then you wear gumboots. So it is a process and they have to be protected, otherwise you will just go and touch and that is it – you are done and you go and spread all over.
Then the ungowning process is also equally tedious because there has to be someone with a spray gun – spraying you as you remove all protective clothing. You get sprayed at every stage and you have to use a special tool for removing the gumboots. Once you are in uniform you get sprayed then you go and change before you go to your original position where you would have started gowning up in the scrubs. So while they were busy preparing to go to meet the patient, the patient’s relatives came through that same door, took the patient and ran away with him – they drove out. The people at the gates just thought that it was the original relatives who were accompanying the patient. They could not see the patient because the patient was sitting in the back seat so they could see him.
The next thing is they drove out and went. So we alerted the police and the environmental health officers. They are still seized with searching for this absconded patient. So we are looking for that patient and there is so much information that is coming through. The addresses where the patient normally is supposed to reside was visited, unfortunately they were not there. So we are looking for that absconded patient but I just wanted to give you a detail on the fact that they had arrived at least more than 14 days before – just a relief but we still want that patient to come back. We want to test that patient. I saw some messages on WhatsApp that are coming through saying that someone fitting that description might have been seen at Chisipite and immediately I asked my environmental health officers to follow up with the police. So it remains a suspect – it is not confirmed.
I also want to let you know that we had a meeting with the captains of the tourism industry on 5th March which I chaired. We advised them of the dangers of the Coronavirus – I gave them a typical example that if for a example they were to have a patient or a traveler arriving at their hotel and they suddenly get all those symptoms; it would be a drastic issue for them because if that person turns out to be positive it means we have to close up the hotel immediately and everyone residing at the hotel has to be quarantined. Initially they were saying, no we think it is okay; as soon as we informed them about the consequences they then realised that it was a serious issue. So we do not want this COVID-19 to be spread because it spreads like wildfire.
The meeting turned out to be a very good meeting and they are collaborating with us very well. We also had meetings with the various airports. We have said that we want to have the Airport Compliance Committees to be well established and also the Ground Port Compliance Committees to be well established. People must meet on a continuous basis, review on daily basis what is happening at the airports and the evacuation systems must be ready. Like now, we have an ambulance stationed at the airport just before the planes coming from the affected areas or out of Zimbabwe arrive; we have ambulances waiting there until everyone is cleared so that if there is anyone who is identified as having a fever they are immediately whisked downstairs and taken into the ambulance straight to the isolation centre.
I have just come from Tanzania where a meeting of the Ministers of Health was held as an emergency. I will just quickly go through the communiqué that came out after the meeting. The main purpose of the meeting was to share existing knowledge and information on COVID-19 outbreak which has had a devastating global impact since its outbreak in December 2019 and to agree on how to harmonise and coordinate the preparedness and response to COVID-19 in the SADC region. There was a presentation from WHO and also from the People’s Republic of China. The meeting also noted the status of the level of preparedness of the member States in addressing COVID-19 and urged member States to put in place national preparedness and response plane as well as contingency and emergency funds to address gaps in prevention, impact mitigation and other investigations. It also urged member States to institute and validate assessment on readiness on a continuous basis working together with the International Cooperating Parties.
The meeting directed and revived committees to work in partnership with disaster management on a regional basis ; to work with other sectors, i.e. immigration, tourism, finance, foreign affairs, trade and Africa CDC and other developing partners, and encouraged to work with the private sector for the purposes of mobilisation of funds and civil societies.
The meeting recommended a temporary suspension of SADC regional face-to-face meetings and encouraged utilisation of Modern Technology such as video-conferences, Webinars and skype calls for holding such meetings until such time when the situation has been contained. The suspension is to be monitored by the Chairperson of Council supported by the SADC Secretariat. I know you are all worried because I went to Tanzania. So the only way to mitigate this is for everyone to be in their respective countries then we will carry on with the task.
The meeting agreed that SADC Member States in collaboration with WHO, will continuously provide training and support to enhance readiness and preparedness of SADC Member States.
The meeting urged Member States to encourage preventive measures such as hand washing and sanitization of surfaces, in workplaces and domestic settings as well as utilising the SADC Pooled Procurement Services through Medical Stores Department (MSD) for the procurement of medicines and supplies.
The meeting urged SADC Member States to mobilise domestic resources and invest in public health systems to ensure resilience and health security.
The meeting further urged Member States to align country plans to continental strategies and utilise the existing technical structures such as the Africa CDC Regional Coordinating Team (RCT) in Zambia and WHO.
The Meeting commended China, WHO and Africa CDC for the efforts being made towards addressing the COVID-19, and pledged
SADC’s continued solidarity towards China and other countries affected by the virus.
The People’s Republic of China extended gratitude to SADC
Member States and the SADC Secretariat for standing in solidarity with China during this difficult time and assured the meeting that all SADC citizens, including students are being taken care of in terms of prevention and monitoring and no one has been infected. With regards to football, it is also being finalised. Crowds are a danger so I leave that one open.
Madam President, with regards to COVID-19, in summary, while we have been saying if covid-19 comes to Zimbabwe now with South Africa having acquired and is now affected, we now have to say when
Covid-19 comes to Zimbabwe are we ready for it? That is the question.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Minister for that explanation. I think Hon. Senators may need some clarifications from the Minister.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the comprehensive report. I must say with all due respect, people have got a tendency to say Ministers lie but I can tell you that I am still within the field and I communicate day-in day-out with health workers. So what I am talking about is from a very informed position and not speculative. The Minister was very intensive and I want to congratulate him for that. -[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]- I am sure if we are to continue with this trajectory we will not find ourselves in a situation like we had with HIV/Aids where one of our Ministers was so protective until we were wiped as a country and became a world epicentre of this. So, to the Hon. Minister I say thank you very much. I think your administration is so far so good if I am allowed to say that Madam President.
My comment is first on the preparedness that the Minister talked about. Preparedness of this pandemic is at various levels. At the moment I think we are doing well on the preventive, but we are not yet there. One area I would want the Minister to comment on is in the event that we get COVID-19 in Zimbabwe, how prepared are we in terms of the QSD aspect, because as we speak right now if you look from what is happening – about 5% of those who are infected with COVID-19 will need intensive care, which is hospital admission. Our centre at Wilkins does not have that facility, so in the event that we have a case, where is that going to be? Our central hospital at Parerenyatwa ICU for the whole of this region has got four working ventilators and those people will need life support. I think when we talk about prevention and readiness, we have to be comprehensive but I do not think we are ready. We are only ready in terms of saying it has not come but when it comes it will be a disaster. The health workers will run away and that is actually what they are saying. Why, because they do not have the tools of trade. If Mavetera is to get sick today and he needs respiratory support, which hospital is he going to be admitted in and be managed?
That will be very important.
I think he also touched on a very important issue when he said COVID-19 is like a hygiene disease. The basics – washing, disposal of waste etcetera, I am sure the Hon. Minister is aware that most of our health facilities at the moment have problems with water supply. What is the Minister doing to liaise with the authorities which provide those basic needs so that the health workers are very much prepared to deal with that? We cannot be ready for COVID-19 without adequate water supply and sanitation disposals. Even for those following international news, in one of the hotels in China, transmission was through the chimney because there was poor waste disposal. How many of our centres use the toilet and there is no water to dispose of waste. It will end up infecting everyone, so I think those are issues which need a ministerial matter of urgency. Mr. President, the other issue is about training of health workers. Are we training trainers? I will give an example which happened. One of the cases referred to by the Minister came to a private hospital with a doctor keeping that patient and the staff at the hospital ran away. That is a sign of no preparedness. What I am trying to say to the Minister is when we have these trainings, let us not focus on public institutions because when those people who are likely to bring COVID-19 are the so called rich, their port of entry is going to be a private hospital on some emergency. Those are the entry points which we should guard jealously.
The other point is our tool for screening at the airport. We are basically asking three questions but as we all know now, every aspect on area on part of the world is an epicenter and I think we need to improve on our screening tools. Our screening tool which we are using at our port of entry is not sensitive enough to pick all the potential people who are going to bring in infection into Zimbabwe. I am sure our border...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, with
all due respect Hon. Senator, desist from debating, say what you want to ask for clarification.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President. The
other issue that I was talking about is screening at the borders. I think if anything also it may not be the Ministry of Health, but on the immigration side, they are overwhelmed. Some of the tools which are needed in other areas may not be applicable because they will end up with massive congestion, I think there is need for a ministerial interaction to make sure that we facilitate an efficient way of making sure that we are ready.
My last contribution, I want to find out from the Minister, our test which we are performing here in Zimbabwe, I understand it is a test for Coronavirus, not the one which is specific for COVID-19. So, what is the sensitivity of that test we are using and those approved negative, were they subjected to PCR? Do we have facility for PCR in Zimbabwe because we may have false negatives, especially the cases which were discussed - some of them clinically, anyone to be said this is COVID. Then lastly, the Minister may choose or may choose not to respond to this last comment on this question. I think it is important that it is no longer a secret the epicenter COVID is China. These citizens or people who are unlabelled, what is the origin, what is the nationality of those people who disappear? I know the nationality and why am I saying this Mr. president, it to make sure that as a nation, when we have got visitors from those countries we need to be very strict or ban the visitors from that country, because if they do not observe the laws of the country, they end up in exposing the whole population into a serious health crisis. I think it will be unfair. Thank you Mr. President.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Thank you very much Hon. President Sir. I will start with the nationality of absconders – they are from Thailand, they are Thais. You asked about the type of testing that we are carrying out. We are definitely testing directly for COVID-19 not for SARS COV-2. We are testing directly for COVID-19. Those are the kits that we have. The extraction process is carried out using PCR and also the amplification using the same technique. So, we are using the polymerase chain reaction technique for our testing. What I was saying is that in future, we want to be able to get the rapid tests so that we do not go for the definitive. What I describe is the definitive tests, the gold standard for testing for these viruses.
So we want to go to the primary rapid testing 15 minutes. If it is positive, we go to the definitive gold standard the PCR. If it is negative, we proceed. At the same time, we also want to advise the House that because we are starting testing of this virus in Zimbabwe, we decided that we would need to do an external quality assurance. We might say it is negative when it is not negative. We have to do a quality assurance process by taking some of the samples which we test locally and we send it for testing to South Africa. We are not going to South Africa as South Africa. We go into South Africa as the WHO regional testing facility. I hope you understand that we are not going there because South
Africa is near.
It is because this is something which has been a level for a laboratory which has been set up by World Health Organisation in this region for the purposes of confirmation. In this case, our patients tested in our labs negative, tested in the WHO regional laboratory negative, tested in China negative and so, we give ourselves 100% for that. The next issue is the screening at the airport where you want us to improve. We will definitely improve and the way we are improving is we have recently gotten new equipment which is very sensitive. It can detect from 4 metres away and as you get closer, it is even much more sensitive. That fever we can be able to pick it up and be able to make a determination that the candidate has got an underlying condition which is causing the fever. That is the whole idea.
The fever, the temperature rise is as a result of an underlying disease. That is the approach and so, we definitely have some new equipment which is very sensitive, state-of-the-art as well which is being used worldwide. We are going to get further equipment which is concealed equipment. They do not come to you and point but as you walk past, it is concealed all around the area. It is like a radar and it just speaks up and says this one is not good stop and it alarms and you are stopped.
Interaction, we have an Inter-ministerial Committee and that is why I was saying we are working as a team at the border. We have an
Inter-ministerial meeting where we invited the Ministry of Immigration,
Ministry of Home Affairs which with a few reference with the police, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Environment, the President’s Office was there, ZIMRA and all the other Ministries were there. We agreed that all the workers at the airport, everyone has to work as a team. If you see someone doing the wrong thing, quickly remind them and let us feed information amongst ourselves. Utillise the manifest, access to the passenger manifest was restricted to one department. Now, we can share information.
We can tell straight away that the persons who are on that plain are coming from such and such a destiny, place of origin., coming from China, they have gone to Kenya or Addis Ababa and they are now coming down to Zimbabwe. We can tell that now. So, we are sharing information as a result of that inter-ministerial approach.
Mr. President Sir, the training of health workers, yes, the private hospitals, you are very correct, we have since decided that no, they should also be part and parcel of the training. They were part and parcel of the training initially but naturally, not everyone at this stage would have been trained. The person who might have been trained to become cool, calm and collected might be off on that particular day and then you remain with someone who is still new. So we said each and every health institution must train its people, its front line, intensive care and casualty people so that they can be able to handle these issues without any fear.
For the Government institutions we have said we need a preprimary screening area. For now it can be a tent while they identify another room somewhere so that people pass through there. Just like we were doing at the airport we want that temperature checked, we want to see what the signs and symptoms are before they go into the main area, the casualty area where everyone is and then it causes panic and pandemonium like what happened at the airport the other time.
Someone sent a false signal. 230 people scattering all over the place just because of someone who was irresponsible. They said they heard there is someone who is positive amongst the passengers. Everyone heard that and they all scatter. You would do the same thing. If I came here and said I have just travelled with a Chinese person who unfortunately has been taken ill to Wilkins hospital; you will all suddenly runaway. You will not even walk, you will all run away, let alone people who had been travelling with this person – 230 of them and then someone uttered those words of irresponsibility.
So the training of the private institutions – that is ongoing. Even at the training which is taking place today in Kadoma, we have people coming from the private institution. We have also said, through ZIMA and the College of Primary Care Physicians, they should train their people and go back and further retrain their staff.
Sanitation, adequacy of water – that is an ongoing process. We appreciate. In fact, we are using the fact that we have this problem to further push for the repairs of any water works which are not fully functional and sanitation.
Disposal of material – I think there we are well covered. Everything that we have used we are making sure that our incinerators are fully functional and we are also sanitising any of the products that would have been utilised in the isolation unit. Mr. President Sir, the issue of the ventilators, we are working on that. We realise that there is that need for ventilating our patients especially if they are coming in with respiratory problems. That is an essentiality, so we are working together with our sponsors to improve Wilkins Hospital to identify a section where that can take place and where we can also have these patients being well looked after.
So the issue of ventilators we are already addressing it and our sponsors, our co-partners are looking into it and we have another meeting on Friday where we have submitted the list of all this equipment. There is some new equipment which is also coming through. We are having to take some from one or two of our institutions who recently received some new equipment, so we are very much aware of that requirement.
I want to thank the Hon. Member. He touched on very critical issues. He has talked about the case management side of issues. We might talk about everything else but we want to be talking about the actual management of the case - if the doctor was to get sick today, would he be able to get that appropriate treatment. So that is very relevant. I thank you very much.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I thank you Mr.
President for giving me this opportunity. Let me also thank the Minister and Dr. Mavetera. I have stood up to say, Minister you also do well but today you did your best. This is what we are expecting in good governance. If you have a post, we do not want to hear things in commuter omnibuses. Come here and present. If it is being talked about, we can now understand the issue and explain better. This is what is lacking.
If all Ministers would approach national issues this way; if it was always like this Mr. President that we do not hear it from the grape vine, then we will all be happy. I am very much excited. There are some
Ministers who do not want to come out clean on issues. I also thank Dr. Mavetera and the Minister. This is the spirit that we want. You did very well. This is what we want in the country. If something good is said by anyone, we have to support it. There might be many questions but what you have done today, let this reach the Head of State, President E.D Mnangagwa. We have praised you. If you keep it like this, you need to be always appointed.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President. I
stand to add my voice on this important issue. This disease is very frightening. When I heard the Minister speaking, I was wondering that since I was having a sore throat, maybe I have been infected.
What I have stood up for is to say Minister, you did very well.
Senator Mavetera, although sometimes we fight, you did very well
Senator. We have to clap hands for you. The frightening issue is that this last week with our Committee, we went to Morton Jaffray where we get our drinking water. We heard the issue of hygiene. Hygiene can only be there when we have water. The situation we saw there, if this disease comes into this country, we will all die, even those who say they are Senators from outside Harare. We are here together and all of us will die.
I want to say to our Minister, are you aware that we do not have water in the city or our country does not have water because we are going for seven days without running water? Where I stay for example, we just get water on a Monday only. Right now we do not have water. What plans do you have or I can advise you to approach those who provide water to make sure water is available because all of us will die, including yourself.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, ask your question
Hon. Senator.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Sorry. I want to ask, what is
he doing as the Minister of Health and Child Care, because he is the one who is in charge of health, there is no water. What is he planning to do?
Thank you.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Senator
Hungwe. I will give the Minister the opportunity to respond to that; but I do want to remind Hon. Senators that one to three Hon. Senators in this august House have actually requested that we get a statement on the state of water, am I not correct – [HON. SENATORS: Yes.] – have we not talked about water issues? – [HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Havauyi] – was it said? – [HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA:
Havauyi.] – I think it is one issue which we need to flag and remind the relevant authorities because as far as I remember, it is an issue which has been raised, that we have so many challenges of water especially in the urban areas.
*HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I appreciate and acknowledge the statements made by Hon. Sen. Charumbira. I shall endeavour to work hard and make sure that we protect our country from this scourge. As he rightly said, this does not need divisions, the disease does not discriminate in terms of which level of sickness or which party membership, we all fall sick the same way and we should work together.
Amazingly, that is exactly what we all agreed when I was presenting in the Lower House that this is for us all as Zimbabweans and if anyone has ideas, we listen. However, we should outwit those who through the back door, want to see us all perish, they are the troublesome ones, the fly by night newspapers.
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Hungwe for her observations to ensure that outbreak of diseases is reduced. We should have good infrastructure especially water and sanitation, it is a very huge issue.
We once talked about it during cholera outbreak. Cholera outbreak gave us some headaches; I am the only minister who is besieged with such diseases – [Laughter.] – from the beginning. I was saying to Hon.
Minister Parirenyatwa, ‘are you the one who sent these diseases to me?’ – [Laughter.] – That is what happens but we should rectify it. Where I come from in Chitungwiza, it is a hot spot for diseases. So, I was getting used to these outbreaks and we would always have a way out, but this one that we are faced with is frightening because it is spiritual. Cholera is another thing but this one is frightening. The issue of water – for people to wash their hands as we are encouraging is a problem when there is no water, what should people use? So, I will pass the message to Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, so that he understands the plight and help us. It is a very good advice that he should come and issue a statement. It is true that for us to be fully prepared, we should rectify the issue of water.
Surely for us to be prepared, we should rectify our water situation so that we have water. Should people use saliva to wash their hands? We want people to use clean water to wash their hands so that we would be able to control the spread of this disease. I think that is how I can answer. I thank you for the honour that you have accorded me Hon.
Senators.
*HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I have two questions; the first one is, when this disease COVID-19 was discovered in China, there are steps that they took to curb the spread of the disease. We saw people on television moving around in protective clothing and it is the only country where we saw that the figures are going down. Are we waiting until we get the disease so that we encourage people to protect themselves because the carriers of this disease might not have high temperature, then I get it and I have a high temperature but I will be mixing and mingling with people. In other countries, they are considering banning all matches and other games that bring people together. As you have said, that this is an airborne disease and as people mix and mingle, the disease is easily spread.
What should we do to control that? Should we close our stadiums? In other countries, they have closed air flights. Should we continue receiving those people from countries which are affected because in other countries, they have been banned? Why do we not enact a law to ban people from countries which are known to have infected people until we are aware of where we are going because this is not a long term
thing? We do not have enough facilities; we need time to prepare when the disease comes to our country.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you so much for the question that was posed by Hon. Sen. Makone, it is a very pertinent question. We have not yet reached that stage of wearing masks. However, we have seen that those coming from outside the country are wearing musks which is a very good thing. We are also working on having lots of masks. As I stand before you, before I came here, I inquired on the progress of acquiring our masks, whether the first consignment has arrived. We want to have lots of mask but at the moment, we are not yet worried to that extend though we should be prepared and ready. Yes, it can happen that during the incubation period, one might not have a high temperature then arrives at our airport before high temperature; but now we are saying all those coming from affected countries should fill in a form with the correct address, which is the same address which they leave with the immigration and we make a follow up every day for the next 21 days and not 14 days to makes sure that the person who comes from an affected country is monitored. If one of these people goes missing from the quarantine, he will be doing wrong and that will not prevent the disease from spreading. That is how we view it. The issue of stadia is the one which I talked about especially soccer. I came from Tanzania today; in that meeting it was said we do not want large gatherings. So we agreed that for soccer we do not want people gathering. In other countries, if you check in England, only the playing teams go to the stadia. Only 22 players will be in the stadium and they play without spectators. It is no longer the issue of us being many doing what you were talking about; you explained it very well Hon. Sen. Is it that you attend soccer matches? - [Laughter.] - That is the exact issue that he talked about. If people cough in the stadium, it will affect everyone. So we need to be alert.
We understand that our team will be playing in Algiers. That is where we have a problem. They will go there and meet other people. We understand that in Algiers there are people who are sick and they will meet those people. We have to quickly see what we can do on that
issue. They must not go, is it not? I want to thank you because I have heard you agreeing with me. I will take that word up.
The issue of travel ban that, why are people from affected areas coming here? That is what we were talking about also but we did it in a clever way so that we do not have conflict with our friends and other countries. We did it wisely that before a person leaves his or her country they have to see their doctors, you are certified fit and then you can travel instead of you coming here, we test you at the airport and you are detained in isolation. This is what we are trying to do without affecting our relationship with many people. The idea which came out in Tanzania is that we can write names of countries that are seriously affected.
If you check in United Arab Emirates (UAE), they say that UAE citizen, if he is coming from those countries he is allowed to come but if he is tested and has the signs and symptoms they are sent to detention and you are quarantined. If you are not UAE citizen and come to the country and you are seen to be sick you are sent straight into detention.
I have also seen that they are refusing people to come into the country. If you are from Iran you are not allowed into the UAE. China, South Korea – they have a very long list; we are also looking into that. I just wanted to inform you that but we have to look at it in a tactful manner. If we start it abruptly, it will give us problems but we want to get to the level which we are talking about. That is what we want to do Mr. President. I think those were the issues. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. I was once a border jumper going to South Africa. I am afraid that the people who are coming and checking are using the legal border but some are crossing illegally through Shashe River. What measures are you taking to prevent those people who are crossing the border illegally as we understand that South Africa is affected?
HON. DR. O. MOYO: The issue is, we talked about it when we had a meeting with Immigration and Home Affairs, they know all the routes and they gave them names. We asked them to put the police and they are guarding these areas. We want to have a full proof border. It is well known and being investigated. Since we got a lot of equipment, we will take the one at airports and give it to those who will be manning our borders. If they find these people, they will test them using that equipment. We are doing everything possible Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Minister for a comprehensive account of what is happening regarding this unfortunate disease. Part of my question was answered but I still need some bit of assurance. Since Covid-19 sufferers are symptom free for five days, my biggest worry is the Beit Bridge Border Post where we have got thousands and thousands of people entering everyday or tens of thousands every week. How is it practical to monitor such people? It is now just a matter of time before it comes to Zimbabwe.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: That question also comes to mind and anyone can worry especially with the Beit Bridge Border Post where we have a lot of people coming through. This is where we talk in terms of thoroughness and in actual fact, increasing the number of Port Health staff who will help us to ensure that we cover each and every individual who comes through thoroughly.
The issue of five days incubation before symptoms start showing is something which we will have to live with. The most important thing is the follow up process to be able to catch these travellers who will develop symptoms later. We have requested for additional posts to be able to cover at the borders and also to do the follow up. We have requested for more vehicles and fuel availability so that our staff are able to run and check on each and every point. We are strengthening our regulations and making sure that those who are in self quarantine remain in self quarantine rather than just by talking. We have also requested for an improvement in the allowances of our members of staff who have to deal with this situation. They are doing it all on our behalf; there-on the frontline taking the risk and that we have to appreciate by improving or giving them a risk allowance. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – I think that it is very critical. So your question is very relevant, we all need that assurance not just yourself that whoever is coming into the country is clean. I thank you.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President Sir. The disadvantage of being the last one …
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I never said
that you are the last one.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for his comprehensive report. My question is - the Hon. Minister mentioned that the virus emanated from a sea food market in China. Is it safe for us as Zimbabweans to consume sea food? He also mentioned that the carriers of the virus are farm and wild animals. What about the birds, chickens, turkeys and ducks, do they also carry the virus?
Also on the animals, can one tell that this animal is a carrier of the COVID-19 virus? Thank you.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you very much Mr. President Sir and thank you Hon. Sen. Mpofu for your question. Yes, in China it might have been the sea food market but the virus itself was isolated from the bats that were being sold at that particular market. The Chinese are also in the habit of eating very unusual animal species like snakes, you know they also eat dogs. I am speaking softly but that is the reality that it is coming from animals rather than from humans to start off with – it is the animals where it came from. Even pangolins, we also have pangolins here and I know that some people like to eat pangolins in this country. They say that it is a delicacy, so let us keep away from it since it is a protected species. So we need to keep away from that.
In order for us to reduce and why we are saying animals, we just want to make sure that you have been to the kraals and all that with your goats and farm animals – just make sure that you wash your hands because you never know. Let us not take a chance, so let us just make sure that we wash our hands after touching that animal and you immediately dig into your meal and straight into your mouth without washing your hands - that is part of the hygiene. I am emphasizing because this has come out of the animals to humans and we do not want another scenario where we may end up with that type of condition coming out of whatever animal. It is a statement to retard or encourage people to continuously wash their hands after touching animals.
The issue of birds, chickens – there is avian flu but that is taken care of to some extent. At this stage we are not worried about the avian flu but are worried about this one that is coming from these other animals that are not avian. The birds differ from these other animals that are not avian. The bats are normally classified as reptiles – yes, they are animals, flying animals there is a difference there. When we look at the birds, we fear of the avian flu that is already taken care of but we do not want to get avian flu at the same time. All the chickens are well checked, the vets are looking after the chicken world very well. If there is an outbreak they are quick to handle it and most of our farmers are also very observant in relation to fighting the avian flu. Thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to congratulate and say the statement that was issued by the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care has liberated my mind. I did not know about all this. I think that it came at the right time and because of that information, certain questions came up.
If I am not mistaken, I heard the Hon. Minister saying that they now monitor people for 21 days to see whether or not they are not having COVID-19 symptoms. Suppose within the 60 days target and one or three people you are monitoring have been discovered with the virus, do you not think that by that time the infected person would have infected almost all the other people whom they would have been in contact with?
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you very much Mr. President Sir
and I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking that question. Selfquarantine comes with rules. We have regulations on how selfquarantine is carried out. In actual fact, someone who qualifies for selfquarantine is given a leaflet of all the dos and donts and some of the dos are that they must stay within that particular vicinity all the time for 21 days, not even 14 days in our case. We are making sure that the person does not mix with a lot of people except for those people who are living in the same vicinity with him.
The people who are living in the same vicinity with him have also been told on how to communicate with that particular individual. They must not have continuous communication with the individual and when the individual wants anything, they go and leave a note outside the door. They have to bring their food and leave it outside the door. Once they finish eating, they put the plate outside the door. It is a very strict condition. We have said that if anyone fails or decides that they will not abide by those regulations they will be deported if they are a foreign traveler or they are visitors. We are being very serious about it, so they have to follow that.
This is the reason why you have also heard people complaining about the Chinese people who are continuously staying indoors; hanzi,
‘Aaah takamuona, akauya asi haachabudi payi? Mumba, tineshuwa kuti munhu uyu arikutorwara nechirwere.’ We get all those phone calls coming through now advising us that there is someone who is a foreign national who is not coming out of the room and we strongly feel that they are sick, please come and check. When we check in our records, we find that it is an individual that we are actually following up on. They will actually be doing the correct thing by staying indoors. We check temperatures on daily basis. It is a pity that I did not get the figures or numbers that we have cleared, i.e. those who have surpassed their 21 days and are now in 22 days. So the numbers fall down on daily basis and it is a continuous process. We monitor and make sure that we are all safe – that is what is very vital. I thank you.
Hon. Sen. Shoko having stood up to pose a question to the Hon.
Minister of Health and Child Care.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Are you
going to ask something very different? – [HON. SEN. SHOKO: Yes, Mr. President Sir.] – There are two people who still want to seek clarifications. Alright, then we will have Hon. Sen. Gumpo then Hon.
Sen. Shoko.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: I thank you President of the Senate. I have heard the Minister saying he met the Minister of Environment,
Tourism and Hospitality Industry. In the hotels that we are staying, the workers who do our beds do not have protective clothing. An exercise must be done so that people who clean the rooms should have protective clothing. In fact, all the people who work in hotels should be protected. That is all I wanted to say Mr. President. I thank you.
*HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Senator for the question. It is a pertinent question. When we met with people from the hospitality industry, I gave them a scenario of people who book in hotels and we are not aware of them. Your workers come in and clean and another one comes in so your workers become contact persons. That person will have already gone and we catch that person then the hotel is closed down. So they were asking for the way forward and I suggested they come up with a special committee headed by the Chairman of Tourism Industry. It should be speeded up so that we can hold a workshop for them to enable us to come together with the people from Infection Control and they will teach them thoroughly on how to handle such situations.
You just nailed it on the head because we were talking about it that look at that girl, she is going into another room and we do not know the status of the person who was sleeping in the room. Suppose the person is infected with the virus, they get in contact with the person and become infected. I think we should help them get protective clothing. At least we can get them gloves whilst waiting for masks. At least now we are engaging in full preparedness so that we will not be caught unaware. We talked to them about it and we are organising a workshop, which might have taken place yesterday when I was away. They will be given a list of what is supposed to be bought. Every worker, from the airport to the hospitals should have protective clothing. Mr President, I think that is how I can respond.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. O. MOYO), the Senate adjourned at Twelve
Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Khumalo, please
take your seat. I have received some notices here on point of privileges. Let us not create a habit that is unnecessary, which causes me to say sit down please because you can ask a question on Wednesday. I do not like to do that and I do not want to embarrass any Hon. Member. So, the indulgence is for today - but if one Member is off side, I shall do so to save time.
HON. SPEAKER’S RULING
TABLING OF FORENSIC AUDIT REPORTS
THE HON. SPEAKER: On Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020, Hon.
Biti as Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee, rose on a point of privilege and requested that Hon. Ministers who have not tabled forensic audit reports for entities that fall under their purviews be compelled to do so. I have engaged the Clerk of Parliament – [HON. NDEBELE: Inaudible interjections.] - Can you listen Hon. Ndebele? I have engaged the Clerk of Parliament and indeed the following reports have not been tabled in the National Assembly.
- Report on the forensic audit on NetOne. This is for Minister of
Information, Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services, Hon. Muswere.
- Examination of the agents backing relationship between
People’s Own Savings Bank of Zimbabwe (POSB), Private Limited- Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Prof. M. Ncube.
- Report on forensic audit on Management and Staffing
Procurement System, Property and Non-rail Investments, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. J. B Matiza.
- Findings in respect of the forensic audit on some aspects of the operations of Zimbabwe Revenue Authority; Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Prof. M. Ncube.
- Zimbabwe Revenue Authority Information and Technology forensic audit report, Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Prof. M. Ncube.
- Forensic audit of the financial operations of the Cold Storage Company Limited, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Rtd. Air Chief Marshal P. Shiri.
- African Union Sport Council Region Four under 20 Youth Games Forensic Audit – Minister of Youth, Sport Arts and
Recreation, Hon. K. Coventry.
- Grain Marketing Board Examination of Affairs and
Transactions – Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Rtd. Air Chief Marshal P. Shiri.
- Forensic Audit Report on Allied Timbers – Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry, Hon. M. Ndlovu.
- Forensic Audit Report on Air Zimbabwe – Minister of
Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. J. B. Matiza.
- Forensic Audit Report on the National Railways of Zimbabwe
– Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. J. B.
Matiza.
- Forensic Audit Report on the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation – Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services, Hon. M. Mutsvangwa.
- Forensic Audit Report on the Zimbabwe Electricity Supply
Authority – Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. F. Chasi.
- Forensic Audit Report which examined the upgrading of the Harare Airport Road by Alger Investments – Ministry of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. J. Moyo.
I therefore rule that the responsible Ministers table the reports by
Tuesday, 17 March 2020 at the latest.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE DUE TO LACK OF QUORUM
THE HON. SPEAKER: This one you will have to listen carefully and tell the Hon. Members who are not here. This is a ruling on the adjournment of the House due to lack of quorum.
In pursuant of the provisions of section 137 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and in terms of Standing Order No. 56 (1), (2) and (3), the Chair has observed that since the commencement of the Second Session of the 9th Parliament on Tuesday, 1 October 2019, the House has had to adjourn prematurely due to the lack of quorum on three occasions as follows:-
Tuesday, 3rd December, 2019 there were only 61 Hon. Members present in the House; Tuesday, 25th February, 2020 there were 59 Hon.
Members present, Wednesday, yesterday, 4th March 2020, 65 Hon.
Members were present.
The Chair is deeply concerned about the apparent dereliction of duty by the Hon. Members who absent themselves after registering their names on that days register resulting in the adjournment of the House due to lack of quorum. Consequently, the Chair rules that with immediate effect, all Hon. Members who are absent when the House adjourns due to lack of quorum will not be paid their sitting allowances for that day.
To that end, the Chair is directing the Clerk of Parliament to compile a list of those Hon. Members who will have been absent with the view of disallowing their allowance in future. Further, I am also directing the Clerk of Parliament to prepare a list of Members who are consistently absent when there is no quorum in the House for sharing with their respective political parties who must take corrective action accordingly. Please be guided accordingly.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): On a point of
clarity, Hon. Speaker Sir. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I really appreciate your ruling but I just wanted clarity on tabling of reports of Tuesday. As you can see there are many reports that you want to be tabled on Tuesday and today is a Thursday. I do not want a scenario where Hon. Ministers would appear as if they did not comply with your order, given that tomorrow is a Friday. Can you extend it a little bit as opposed to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Let me make my ruling in peace. Hon. Leader of Government Business, perhaps you missed it. I said at the latest 17th March. So they have tomorrow and another week and another day. Thank you.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of
privilege rests on the fact that I notice there is a lot of disruption in Parliamentary debates arising from Hon. Members heckling at each other and making a lot of noise which disturbs us from behind there. We cannot even hear a thing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I also want to draw your attention, Hon. Speaker Sir that in your absence there is a lot of disruption that goes on even more than what happens when you are around. I am deeply concerned at the lack of respect of this august House by Hon. Members.
Through you Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like you to take corrective action on Members who continuously disrupt debates to the detriment of everyone else in the House. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Infact, I should not be saying order twice if you are really Hon. Members. It starts from there. I thank the Hon. Member for raising that matter of great importance because it speaks to the decorum of the House. I want the Hon. Members to realise that when the Presiding Officers sit on this chair, it is not theirs. It is your chair which you must respect and it has nothing to do with the person sitting in that chair. Tomorrow, the same Presiding Officers may not be there but this chair will be there and we want you to respect the chair and not individuals. More importantly, you must respect yourselves because if you do not respect the Chair, then you do not understand the processes and dignity of the House. We implore you to respect the Chair and not the person behind the chair.
HON. SINGO: I rise on a point of privilege to thank the effort that the Government is doing towards Coronavirus – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I would also want to thank His Excellency for restricting travels outside Africa.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I am saying order to those who are making noise. Please carry on Hon. Member.
HON. SINGO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege, to thank the effort that the Government is doing towards Coronavirus. I would also want to thank His Excellency for restricting travels outside Africa for Government officials which will curb the spread of Coronavirus. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. We shall invoke Article 108 of the Standing Orders to send you out if you do not listen. They say in Shona; chakanaka chakanaka mukaka haurungwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Other countries have done, what the Government has done restricting movements to save the citizens. I do not see what is wrong with that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
Order, Hon. Ndebele, it is not movement from outside but also from outside you may bring and from inside you will contact the virus.
Let us think logically.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of recommendation is that while the Government is doing whatever it can to try and eliminate the Coronavirus, there are also certain steps that they must take. When I was coming into the country, you get to the airport and they take your temperature and they ask you a question – where have you been in the last three weeks and let us say you have been in Zambia; they do not check your passport to see whether you have been in Zambia. The Coronavirus can be in incubation for 24 days and they do not check the passport. What if someone has been to China and says I am coming from South Africa. What measures are they taking at the border to ensure that this passport stamp shows that you are coming from Zambia?
Secondly, my constituency Norton is most worrisome. We have got more than 400 Chinese working at the Chinese Factory. It came to my attention this morning from a member of Norton Constituency who asked if I was aware that there are Chinese who had been quarantined but are moving in and out of the factory. I have the message and I have forwarded it to the Minister hoping that something can be done urgently. At this point in time, Norton is not so sure about what is going on because they are coming in and out. As a result, they are spreading it and bringing it again. That has got to be quarantined. There is need to attend to this in terms of eliminating that in the Norton Constituency.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you for your observation and I think on the first part of your observation, it was Hon. Biti who raised the same and I am sure the Leader of Government business will have some conversation with the Minister of Health so that as people are checked, they have their passports with them so that what they say is verified by the information on the passport.
On the question of the enterprise in Norton, again I am sure the
Hon. Leader of Government business will alert the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care so that necessary steps are taken. It should not only be Norton – whenever there is a concentration of the Chinese workers, not to say that they are infected but that precautionary measures are taken especially when there is going in and out of those enterprises out of the country.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I rise on a point of privilege in terms of Section 68 read together with Section 69 (d). Hon. Speaker, as a Member of Parliament, there are issues that affect me in as far as I work here in Parliament and the constituency. Those issues do not necessarily have to be discussed in the House but there is a platform created by
Parliament where we send our Chief Whips to go and discuss for the furtherance of our interest and that is the Standing Rules and Orders Committee.
In my interaction with my Chief Whip, he reports back to me that the Standing Rules and Orders Committee has not sat for the past three months and as such, the issues with him that affect my performance have not been attended to. Can we be advised when the Standing Rules and Orders Committee is going to sit so that our issues can be attended to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are now going too far – [HON.
MEMBERS: Aaaaah!] - The Chief Whips know that in terms of
Standing Order Number 13, as Members of the LCC, particularly the Government Chief Whip and the Chief Whip of the opposition, they do not have to wait for the meeting of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. It says if there are issues that affect the operations of the
Members, they can approach the Speaker – not the Clerk but the
Speaker, that avenue is there. They have not come to see me – [HON. MEMBERS: Not yet!] – I was going to ask you to withdraw the statement.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I am
rising on a point of privilege. Last night, when I was watching the news at 2000 hours I was very disturbed Hon. Speaker. My performance as a Member of Parliament is being affected by the negative reporting by the public broadcaster which is the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation (ZBC).
Hon. Speaker, if you noticed, yesterday we had a very good debate and good interactions with Hon. Ministers – there was a good Question and Answer session but of all the things, the public broadcaster which is ZBC, decided only to show the public the incident that happened between Hon. Sikhala and Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga on the issue of Grace Mugabe – which is very unfortunate. The perception that is out there about Parliament is not going to be corrected when our public broadcaster is continuously being skewed towards their reporting. Hon. Speaker, I would like you to engage the Hon. Minister of Information,
Publicity and Broadcasting Services so that they portray a good image about our Parliament, especially when we do debates. I thank you. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, before I respond, I want to make a correction about the Standing Order concerning the Chief Whips. It is Standing Order Number 15 and not 13 – I hope Hansard will correct that. It is Standing Order Number 15 and not 13.
Your observation Hon. Mamombe is fine but again, that should be asked as a question so that there is some debate and supplementary questions can be asked accordingly. Thank you.
I think Hon. Mpariwa you are the last one – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – May I say that in future, we shall allow not more than three Points of Privilege from either side.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, when we look at
the calendar, today is 5th March and on Sunday it will be 8th March, which is an International Women’s Day that is recognised globally and Zimbabwe is one of the countries that celebrates such a day. There are 52% women in Zimbabwe. I am saying this because a census is being conducted. However, the statistical results are yet to be published.
Hon. Speaker, women also have a right to have robust debates to talk about various issues that affect women and other issues that may be of importance to women. I am saying this because starting from the Hon. Speaker and other Hon. Members, all parties represented were borne of women. I take this opportunity to congratulate all Zimbabwean women and women the world over for this year’s International Women’s Day.
However, before I resume my seat Hon. Speaker, there are some gaps particularly towards …
*THE HON. SPEAKER: I wanted to instruct you to sit down
Hon. Member but I will allow you to continue.
*HON. MPARIWA: Mr. Speaker, when we look at the public holidays that we recognise in Zimbabwe, looking at our local calendar, I am one of the women who have raised this issue several times. I believe that the International Women’s Day should be recognised as a public holiday. It is my plea Hon. Speaker that this day should be recognised as a public holiday in Zimbabwe.
My voice is not clear because I was tear-gassed two weeks back. I am one of the people who had organised people on the 8th and the Zimbabwe Republic Police denied us that opportunity. They advised us to hold the gathering on the 14th but to me Hon. Speaker, it is like postponing Christmas so that it is celebrated on 30th December. My plea is that actions that are taken against women should be considerate. When police are dealing with women, I believe they should remember that they come from women and afford us due respect. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mpariwa. I believe that as women or as Hon. Members, we need to come together and request officially from the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development for the issue to be taken up to Cabinet for the issue to be discussed so that the International
Women’s Day is recognised. We are going to do that and make sure that we engage Hon. Minister Sithembiso Nyoni. – [HON. T. MOYO: Mr.
Speaker, there is an outstanding Point of Privilege!] – No, time is gone.
You should see the Clerk or myself later.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that
Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day are disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B.10, 2019]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: International Treaties Bill
[H. B. 10, 2019].
House in Committee.
COMMITTEE STAGE
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10, 2019]
Second Order Read: Committee: International Treaties Bill [H. B.
- 2019]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I promised the Hon. Member Phulu that we will include a definition of a foreign organisation. So, I propose on page 5 of the Bill to insert the following sub-clause, the existing clause becoming subclause (1):
“(2) If any question arises as to the meaning of a “foreign organisation or entity” in connection with the application of Section 327 of the Constitution, or in any other legal context in which the scope of Zimabwe’s foreign obligations is in issue, that phrase (or “foreign organisation” or “foreign entity’) shall mean any corporate entity domiciled or incorporated outside Zimbabwe”. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I think there is something wrong with the mike, we can hardly hear the Minister. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- No, but I am seated here and if I cannot hear then it means all those people are not hearing.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I repeat Hon.
Chair. I am proposing the following amendment
Hon. Mamombe having been talking
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon.
Mamombe I think I am going to send somebody out of the House at the moment.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I repeat Hon.
Chair. I am proposing the following amendment: o
On page 5 of the Bill to insert the following sub-clause, the existing clause becoming subclause (1):
“(2) If any question arises as to the meaning of a “foreign organisation or entity” in connection with the application of Section 327 of the Constitution, or in any other legal context in which the scope of
Zimbabwe’s foreign obligations is in issue, that phrase (or “foreign organisation” or “foreign entity’) shall mean any corporate entity domiciled or incorporated outside Zimbabwe”. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I just want the Hon. Minister
to explain to us because apparently, I do not believe that this Bill is going to be Treaties Act of Zimbabwe, and naturally I think this Act should apply to all and I actually believe that there is need to ensure that publications of all Treaties, all may not be domestication, but the publishing, members or a country at large needs to know all the various treaties that this Country will enter from time to time. This is the reason I would want in that cause to remove the word, the publication aspect. I believe that it is of necessity. I can agree on the domestication but the need for all Treaties because this Treat is supposed to be superior to all the other Acts of Parliament that relate to any other Treaty. I submit Mr.
Chair.
THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. The reading of this Section indicates that if we have any other Act, where exactly what he is praying for is provided for, there is no need. So he is actually speaking about the need for publication and this clause is specifically saying that; to say that if it is provided for in another Act, the publication and domestication, there is no need to do it under this Bill. For instance, we have international agreements and customs agreements that are published under the Income Tax Act, we do not need to do it now when it is already provided for. So, what he is praying for is exactly what we are setting in this particular clause. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Minister, what happens in a situation where a certain Act of Parliament makes a provision pertaining to a particular treaty but does not have anything in it that talks to its publication; would you be saying that the provision of this Act will then take centre stage? I want to believe that there are certain Acts of Parliament which do not mandate the publication of certain treaties, be it bilateral treaties.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I think we are in agreement with the Hon. Member. If you read the clause, it says; ‘the
Act shall not apply to the publication or domestication.’ So if another Act provides for the domestication but not publication, this Act applies.
If it applies to the publication but not domestication, this Act will apply.
If there is an Act that applies to both publication and domestication, this Act will not apply. So his worries are already covered by the very wording of this Act. I thank you.
Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 4 put and agreed to.
On Clause 5:
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I am worried that in the appointment of functions of PAC it looks like there is a deviation and Parliament is no longer required to be part of the appointment system. It is only the Attorney General, the Ministry itself, Ministry of
Finance and Economic Development and the Office of the President and Cabinet. I do not know why Parliament is now out of the mix. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I rose to allay his fears.
This is an Executive Committee and Parliament’s role in ratifying agreements has not been taken away from you. Parliament is still relevant when all the Executive functions have been done to ensure that agreements are tidied up, clear, in the national interests and then they are tabled in Parliament for you to assert your role in ratifying the treaties. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I just wanted to inquire from the Hon .Minister. If you check on the composition of PAC, there is one from the Attorney General, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the President’s Office, bringing them to about four. Ordinarily, Hon. Chair, most Committees usually have five, an odd number and I just want to find out; I think we are diverting from what has actually become the norm so that – because what then happens, assuming that the four members end up; two opposing and two for. What will be the mechanism to break that deadlock?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. This is a subcommittee of the Executive, so it operates by consensus. Should there be a disagreement, you do not resolve the disagreement by voting, you refer it back to the principals. I thank you.
Clause 5 put and agreed to.
Clause 6 put and agreed to.
On Clause 7:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I have huge challenges
pertaining to Clause 7 (4) which provides that ‘any international treaty which falls within the scope of the prerogative powers of the President in the sphere of international relations, may be published by the
President by statutory instrument at his or her sole discretion.’ I have got serious reservations in that regard. I want to believe Hon. Chair, that whenever the President, in his own prerogative, decides, assents, signs or enters into an international treaty or bilateral relations, it ties the nation. Therefore, I would like to request the Hon. Minister to remove the word ‘may,’ and replace it with ‘shall.’ It should be mandatory because every treaty has to be seen by all the people of this country.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his spirited attempt to ensure that everything is mandatory as he speaks. However, there are certain agreements that dictate, because of the nature of the agreement; for example, peace treaties. There are certain secret agreements that need not be published but they are of essential importance to the nation and the President must be given the prerogative to enter into those and at his discretion, depending on the nature and content of the treaty to publish them if he so wishes. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, with all due respect to the Hon. Minister, the President as a human being, as an elected officer, cannot have anything that can be seen as if it is actually being personalised. Everything that the President does, he is the number one citizen of the country and is representing the country. To that extent, Hon. Chair, I do not understand what the Hon. Minister is saying that there can be certain private treaties that the President may sign. I do not think it is possible. It cannot happen in a democratic and open state like Zimbabwe.
Get me right, Hon. Minister, we are not stopping the President from signing any treaty which he or she may think will do good for this nation, but what we are basically saying is that we cannot then allow the President to keep those treaties in a cupboard. Nothing can be secret. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, a President is a citizen and a President acts on behalf of the people. Whatever a President commits to affects the people. It is not his own treaty. That is why in other countries you even have a committee of Parliament that deals with those treaties. Once the President has signed a treaty, he has committed the entire country to that treaty and it will eventually affect the people of Zimbabwe. So there is no reason whatsoever to then have any treaty that can be called a secret, because it will involve the people.
If it is a military treaty it will involve our children who are in the army. If it is to do with intelligence, it will still affect the people of
Zimbabwe who work in the intelligence. So it is not an individual’s treaty, it is not a private treaty for a President, moreso in a democratic state where Presidents come and go.
Also, Mr. Speaker, we cannot trust entirely on an individual whose state of mind at any given time can change. So it is an institution’s treaty, it has to be a country’s treaty and not a presidential treaty. It would be setting a dangerous precedence and this is exactly why eventually a number of Presidents start feeling that they own the state and they can do anything. It is wrong for us to do so.
HON. S. BANDA: Hon. Chair if we allow secret treaties, when I become the President I can also have secret treaties where I can have a friend somewhere who I can just discuss with and say I am going to give you 20 000 hectares of land, come and do one, two and three. So it is a secret.
We do not want that Hon. Chair. We want something that is open that benefits all Zimbabweans, those who are here today and those who will be there in the future. So we beg you that it should be open. Thank you.
THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. Hon. Chair we have a scenario here where Hon. Members are not reading what is in the Bill and they go in their own direction interpreting things that are not in the Bill.
If you read this subsection it says an international treaty. So there is no international treaty about giving each other land, Hon. Member and the clause goes on to say, ‘that which is in the scope of the prerogative of the President’. This has already been defined in the Constitution under the Executive power that is given to the President in Section 110 of the Constitution. So let us not make imaginary treaties in our head. This is speaking to something that has been conferred on the President already to say it is within his prerogative and we are simply saying if it is within his prerogative, it is still in his prerogative to publish or not in a Statutory Instrument.
So it is very consistent. If you do not want it we can then revisit the Constitution and remove the Presidential prerogative powers. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I think the Hon. Minister is actually also contradicting himself. Hon. Chair, for the benefit of the
Minister - I am actually holding the Bill, this is what the clause says, ‘an international treaty’ I want to underline the word ‘international’. There is no way the President of Zimbabwe can engage in a private international treaty. The moment it becomes an international treaty, it is something that is going to bind Zimbabwe and everything that happens, like for instance in Zimbabwe, you are aware, Hon. Chair, that even bilateral agreements, when the President goes to Russia, to China to sign the mega deals, everything is actually reported and I am just wondering what sort of international treaty that can be so private, so confidential to the extent that you do not want the country to know.
What I would want the Hon. Minister to do, probably if he intends to convince us, can he tell us any such international treaty. We want an example of an international treaty that the President has actually done so privately and decided to simply say no, I will not publish it.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, let me start by correcting my colleague Hon. Member of Parliament to say that if the President signs an international treaty, it does not automatically bind Zimbabwe. That is the reason why we have in the Constitution a whole section 327 that speaks exactly to that and there are treaties that are allowed that are within the prerogative of the President, which is exactly what we are saying. I have already given an example of peace treaties or treaties of alliance and the Hon. Member, if he is so willing, I will be able to furnish him with reading material that speak to what I am saying, but an international treaty does not automatically bind a country because it has been signed, unless our Constitution so says, but our Constitution does not say once a treaty is signed automatically it binds the country. I thank you.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. There are Hon. Members on your right, particularly Hon. Nzuma, I think they have had a bit more sadza and maybe they are trying to sleep [Laughter.] - so I urge them to wake up and to contribute to this important debate, Hon. Kwaramba as well. Thank you.
HON. TSUNGA: Still on Clause 7, Hon. Chair, I think as people of Zimbabwe we are both stockholders and stakeholders in the affairs of this country and we have a vested interest in all the decisions that are made that impact our lives. Having said that, I think that the clause is a bit worrying in that it allows the President to decide whether to publish or not because it says ‘he may’. In other words, he may not. What that means is that the President may do certain things behind everyone’s back and we all do not know what treaties, conventions or agreements he has signed on behalf of all of us.
What is important is that there must not be that leeway to allow the President to decide arbitrarily whether to publish or not as stated in that clause. I would rather we have it that he must necessarily publish so that it is open to critique by the citizens of this country who are important stakeholders, stockholders, citizens and owners collectively of this country. My submission is that the clause needs fine tuning so that we do not allow a single person to arbitrarily make decisions about the country and further to that, decide on their own will whether to publish it or not.
Necessarily, all agreements, treaties and conventions must be published rather than allowing people to decide against publishing. How will we know and critique if we do not know that certain things have been signed?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I present my last submission because I notice that we are now repeating the same point over and over again. I have indicated that the President is given powers and we have specifically stated here – where a treaty is within the President’s prerogative, and these are not many. They are few. He is allowed to do that. I have stated certain treaties that I have classified to say if he signs a peace treaty, for instance like what we did many years ago, we signed a peace treaty with DRC for instance. It is within the President’s prerogative to publish the contents of that peace treaty if he so wishes that it is in the national interest but if he believes that there are security issues that dictate that the contents of that peace treaty must not be published, it is within his prerogative.
I submit that as it is, the clause is alright and I move that we proceed as it is.
HON. MADZIMURE: This word that the Minister continuously uses – prerogative; if there are contents that the President feels he should disclose or not disclose, this is where it is really worrying. What are such contents that the President might feel? If it is part of the treaty that he can feel, it should not be disclosed to the people of Zimbabwe because he does that on behalf of the people of Zimbabwe. When we talk of prerogative on matters that will eventually affect the people, it becomes very difficult.
This is exactly the problem where we end up being committed to things that the entire nations feel was not necessary. These are the counter checks that must be built in any law or anything that we commit ourselves to.
I will understand the Hon. Minister’s concerns because his job is sometimes to come and defend what the Government will have agreed on. This is very disturbing. The people of Zimbabwe cannot be committed to anything that may be used or where the President has the prerogative to inform them. There must not be a prerogative. As long as it affects the people; some of the secrets are so demining that by the time that you realise that was the reason, that is when you find people being impeached. It is purely because of committing people to some things that are not right.
We have Parliament to see that the executive is held to account and this is what we are calling for. Zimbabwe is a constitutional democracy where we have got three arms of the State. If the President does something that the people of Zimbabwe feel that, no he should not have committed us to, we must have the right to say no. Therefore, any contents of a treaty must be disclosed because he is not entering into a treaty on his own behalf but on behalf of the country and for the people of Zimbabwe.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I wish to end the debate on this clause. I have already made my position clear and I have already indicated that I am not changing. I just want to clarify – an international treaty that is signed by the President according to the Constitution does not bind
Zimbabwe until it is approved by Parliament. We cannot spend the whole day arguing over a treaty that is within the prerogative of a President elected by the people and the very same President is entrusted with – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - When they were speaking, I was silent.
THE HON. DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, any President in the world is entrusted with the security of his nation. When you speak about security issues, you do not publish them in a Gazette. This would be the first country where a country publishes issues that deal with security. A President is elected by the people to ensure and defend the interests of the country. I propose that we proceed and I request that we divide the
House if we cannot agree – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order,
order why are you standing Hon. Member, may you resume your seat?
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Chair, I rise to try and find a middle of way approach. My submission Hon. Chair is that before you or before this House today on the Order Paper is another Bill that we are going to consider with regards to access to information. The whole issue here is about transparency and the Freedom of Information Bill speaks to that.
My question to the Hon. Minister is, are treaties that are not yet ratified by Parliament public information? If they are, there is therefore a remedy with regards to accessing of such as contained in the Freedom of Access to Information and if the treaties are to do with defence and security, there is again a law that provides for conditions under which information cannot be released to the public both in Section 62 (4) of the Constitution and again in the Freedom of Information Bill.
So in his response, he may want to advise us on the type of treaties that he does not want to be published. If they are under defence and security we do not need to then waste our time because they are as contained in the Constitution. If they are general treaties in terms of transparency and accountability, again provisions of how to access the same are in the Bill that is going to be before you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, he is very correct if you want to access any information there is a law that allows you to do so and we have that remedy. He is equally very correct that there is certain information of a security nature that you cannot access and there are procedures that are followed. So I want to thank the Hon. Member for that, if you want to access that information and you feel that it is important for you, there are procedures that you follow to get it.
Hon. Madzimure having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is it that you want to
say? The Hon. Minister is very clear and has actually taken into consideration … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, why you now say that the Hon. Minister was very clear was after Hon. Chikwinya had insisted. Had he not done so, then the Hon. Minister was not going to give that clarification. If you muzzle us out – that is why we have bad laws because you do not allow us to talk. This is Committee business and we are dealing with a specific section yet you do not want us to debate that.
Why do we have a Committee Stage of the Bill? It does not work.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Madzimure, I had
conferred with the Hon. Minister because Hon. Chikwinya had approached me. The views that Hon. Chikwinya posed have been positively considered by the Hon. Minister. I cannot understand why you still want to air your other views. What is it that you want to say
now?
HON. MADZIMURE: Chair, I was just saying we have
Committee Stage in order to thoroughly interrogate Bills section by section. My own thinking cannot be attributed to Hon. Chikwinya to say Hon. Chikwinya said this and the Hon. Minister responded in this manner, then it is fine with all of us. I even think that in Parliament we have a Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade that must be seized with all the treaties and what happens outside our borders in as far as our Government is concerned.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is now high time that such committees are treated with respect. These committees must be briefed by the Executive on some of these commitments. My argument is that this issue of saying that it is the prerogative of the Executive to disclose information is wrong. I propose that we establish a procedure where the committee of Parliament on Foreign Affairs and International Trade is briefed on these issues even if it was going to be the only committee that is briefed on those issues. It must be so for every treaty that is signed by the President is brought for scrutiny.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I want to put it on record. The Hon. Minister in his response, I had asked him to give us a single treaty and what he did was that when he stood up, he gave one treaty – the one pertaining to the DRC.
Hon. Chairman, that response actually gives me more energy to demand that this clause needs to be amended. Part of the problems that Zimbabwe had come with the fiscal obligation that came through the
DRC and never again shall Zimbabwe allow such treaties to happen – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – To that extent Hon. Chair, it is my submission that Zimbabwe is a democratic and open State. There is nothing that should be hidden – everything should be put on paper. If it is a question of security, it is covered under the Constitution and other Acts.
So there is nothing or unless if there is something that the Hon. Minister is not telling us, I submit Hon. Chair that for this reason, this clause needs to be amended. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. My
point of order is that while I totally follow the debate from both sides, I think there are certain provisions in the Constitution that can get the President fired in case he does not do his work.
In the last sitting, a motion that was moved by Hon. Mutsvangwa, supported by Hon. Maridadi as the seconder impeached the President. One of reasons was that he was not doing things constitutionally. So to me at any given time, if there is need to impeach the President because he is not doing the right things – I think that can happen. Not only that
Section 140 (3) of the Constitution also gives us the power to call the President to Parliament and ask him on any issues, I implore Hon. Members of this august House to have a joint meeting where we can invite the President, on any other issues that we do not understand even now.
There is a provision and there are provisions in the Constitution that allow for that to happen. If the President has signed any treaty that is not in line with the good governance of Zimbabwe, he can be called to order. There is no one who is above the law in this country. It is no wonder the former late President was impeached and as a result, he left because of him not following the Constitution. So there is that provision and I thought I could remind Members of Parliament that the
Constitution allows us to do so many things as when we get to that point at the end of the day. It was just a reminder to them.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Chairman, I am pleased by the debate and
for lack of a better word – the extent of the ignorance that is there.
There was no treaty that resulted in us losing money in the DRC – [HON. MEMBERS: What happened?] - I spoke about a peace treaty. You do not sign a peace treaty and you lose money because you made peace.
In the Constitution - I want to thank Hon. Mliswa. It is very clear on deployment of forces. So for us to be confused about things that are very clear in the Constitution, it is very disheartening to say that the President has concluded a Treaty which will not bind Zimbabwe because it has not been ratified by Parliament and then we labour on a point that will be bound. When we deploy our forces, there are clear cut constitutional provisions that say what has to happen and this august House has the power even to disregard that and call the President to order like what Hon. Mliswa said. I think we are labouring on nothing and I implore the Hon. Speaker to proceed as it is. I thank you.
Hon. S. Banda having stood up on a point of order
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, the Hon. Minister has
sufficiently responded to that, we need to move forward.
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Chair, for you to then say the
Minister has sufficiently answered, that is not correct because it is us the
Hon. Members who should feel that we have been sufficiently answered.
So in this case we are not sufficiently answered and we still want the
Minister to consider removing “may’.
HON. S. BANDA: I call for the division of House.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is important for you to read the Standing Rules. It is up to the Chairman to go ahead with the division or not. You must read your rules in Parliament so that you know. He can override
that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Mliswa is
correct. I called for the division of the House and they refused. It is in your prerogative to say whether it is necessary. They refused when I said so.
HON. MADZIMURE: No one refused. We said we wanted to debate more.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): If you now want,
you can call for the division and we can go for it.
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON: Because the Minister is not going
to change.
Clause 7 put and agreed to.
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON: Order, Order Hon. Mliswa.
Clause 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9:
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want to check if there are any other International Treaties that were concluded before the commencement of this Act which are being referred to by this particular section? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I do not see the relevance of the question to what is referred to in the Bill.
HON. MADZIMURE: The fear that the Hon. Member has is the
issue of condoning all the other Treaties because this is what it refers to.
Can we have the list of those Treaties that is the only question?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I
have already responded that a list of Treaties is not the subject of what we are dealing with at the moment. It is a question for another day. If Hon. Madzimure requests a list of Treaties that were approved, it can be furnished, but surely I cannot be expected to stand here and give a list of Treaties when we are looking at legislation to deal with International Treaties - how they are supposed to be approved. In all fairness, your question can be referred to the relevant Minister, to supply all the treaties that were approved. I am sure he will oblige. Thank you.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister is pretending to be ignorant, yet he knows what he is talking about. We are referring to all the treaties that were discussed before this Bill and which will be covered in this Bill. Whether you know the treaties or not, you are trying to say that you do not know them at all. The point is; which treaties are these Hon. Minister?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, Hon. Madzimure is the one who is acting confused yet he is not confused. Clause 9 provides for ‘every international treaty that was concluded before the commencement of this
Act. On Section 7 (3), it provides that, ‘subject to subsection (4) and
(8), every international treaty which has been approved by Cabinet and Parliament and ratified or acceded to by the President shall be published by the President by statutory instrument.’ Clause 9 provides that, Section 7 (3)… applies to every international treaty that was concluded before the date of commencement of this Act. This means that what has been provided for should be published. So, I do not know where the confusion is coming from. Should I come with the whole list and table it here, where is it coming from? I thank you Hon. Chair.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
*HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Hon. Chair. We were allocated portable computer gadgets so that we can keep all the information we might need. In our pigeon holes the treaties are also there. The other side of the House, there is no one who is holding a document and they are simply saying ‘no debate – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think Hon.
Madzimure wants to continue to be moribund, rudimental and antiquated – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – He wants to continue to be ‘BBC,’ he wants to remain in the doldrums of technological advancement – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I seek your protection, not only for me but for all the other progressive members who have seen it fit to be collaborated, coordinated and networked – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
On Clause 10:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, ordinarily, I would not stand to debate this clause. However, Hon. Chair, you need to understand part of the challenges that we have with the Minister’s regulatory and other powers. Hon. Chair, you will note that the power to make laws is vested with the Parliament of Zimbabwe and the President. However, what has been happening in this country for the past 10 months of 2019, there has been 233 statutory instruments that have been passed by the Government through various ministers.
What they have done is usurp the powers of Parliament. To that extend, I find it difficult today to support this clause because previously in this House, we have allowed the ministers under the belief that they would act in a reasonable manner to fill the gaps that are left and come up with some regulations. What has actually happened is that the ministers are abusing that little power that they have and substituting us Parliamentarians. Now, we have a challenge; you go out there, industry and various stakeholders are complaining. To that extend, I object to this clause. I want the clause to say; ‘the Minister, with the approval of Parliament, may make such regulations.’ What do I mean Hon. Chair? I want a situation where any regulations, now it should actually be mandatory to be debated in this august House because our powers have been usurped and it is now time that both sides of the House, we should stand to defend this House and the people who elected us.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Hon. Chair. The reason why we have the Committee that is chaired by Hon. Mataranyika is because we want to ensure that all the laws of Zimbabwe are scrutinised. Allowing Ministers to continuously issue regulations has shown us that it is not progressive. If you look at the situation where we are today, like what Hon. Mushoriwa has said, the number of statutory instruments that have emanated from the ministers have proved to be disastrous.
I want the ministers, out of those 233 regulations to say, which one has promoted the interests of this country. So we have irrational ministers being allowed free open cheque to manipulate the laws and usurp the powers of this Parliament. It is not good. Issuing regulations shows clearly that when the law was crafted, sharp minds were not used.
It is because it was rushed and done for a specific purpose which sometimes can be outdated. I do not think that we can continuously give ministers open cheques, they must be serious as they craft laws.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. The Constitution jealously guards the power of Parliament in terms of legislation. The same Constitution ensures efficient operation, gives delegated authority to ministers to issue regulations and Statutory Instruments. The same Constitution and our Standing Rules and Orders make provision for the same to come to Parliament. The same Parliament and I am a bit saddened today Hon. Chair, that we are not very well educated about parliamentary procedures or informed so to speak – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Who?] – I am saying all of us, we are not well informed about parliamentary procedures. I think I will request Parliament administration so that we can go through some of these things again.
We have in the Constitution a Committee called Parliamentary
Legal Committee which is chaired by Hon. Mataranyika. That
Committee is a constitutional Committee – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no need for you to
make noise Hon. Members, you are supposed to listen.
HON. ZIYAMBI: It is chaired by Hon. Samukange, I am sorry. That Committee has delegated authority from Parliament to scrutinise legislation on behalf of all of us. Every time the Speaker announces that this particular month we have received so many Statutory Instruments and a non-adverse report. if there is a adverse report, it comes here and we debate. There is nothing that stops even the Portfolio Committees to have oversight over those and say we picked this and you come and debate here. For the efficient and operation of Government, you cannot say there must not be delegated authority to legislate; it can never happen anywhere in the world.
Let us look at ourselves here rather than look at the Executive to say, what are we doing in terms of our role as parliamentarians in so far as Statutory Instruments and regulations are concerned? Are we doing enough to have a look at them? So there is nothing wrong with this. The only reason why they referred to it is because of some unknown fear but the powers are in this House to deal with that, I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Chair, I am actually happy
with what the Hon. Minister has alluded to. I actually believe that most Ministers have not had time to also understand what the law also said in terms of those Statutory Instruments and the regulations. Hon. Minister, you are right, the Parliamentary Legal Committee looks into the constitutionality whether those Statutory Instruments do not contravene the Constitution. Our question is very simple; if you have a country where a Government in less than 12 months comes with 233 – [AN
HON. MEMBER: It is unheard of.] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order Mr. President Sir, this is not arising out of this. The question of whether the Executive has issued 1000 Statutory Instruments is not what we are seated here to do. The Committee is dealing with the clause that says the Minister may make regulations. If you have any problem with this you address it. So I think the Hon. Member is out of order by making reference to other issues; he should deal specifically with this. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: The Hon. Minister is very much aware
that part of the reason I was giving that background information is, it relates to what we are discussing under 11. What I am saying Hon. Chair, I want a situation that can make this country move forward but we also need to make sure that the zone of authority of Parliament – this blanket, to say that the Minister may make such regulations and give such directions as he or she may deem necessary has been abused in the past and is being abused. This is the reason why I am reluctant to have this clause pass as it is. We have allowed these clauses in various legislation and Bills before. Now we are wise because we have realised that the delegated powers are being abused. So the Hon. Minister is very much aware that I am making reference to 11 and I am simply saying
that I do not want a situation that we should continuously give ministers more powers to make these regulations through the various Statutory Instruments.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think my colleague the Hon. Member is correct regarding powers being with the ministers. If you recall during the ZIDA, I was very clear to all Members of Parliament that we have put so much power in the Ministers. We need to start the process of curtailing that power. Moving forward, Parliament unfortunately will never get to that point and I must say this to both sides that at the end of the day they are whipped. After all this debate no one will go against what he wants and at the same time we do not have enough numbers on this side. Moving forward, it is important that the day that we Members of Parliament decide to agree that Members of Parliament must have power, we must have a joint meeting where we clearly say what we want but can also not predetermine what the Minister will do before he does it.
So allow the Minister to do that and not only that Parliament itself has certain procedures which can be accountable to South Africa, for example if the Minister passes Statutory Instrument you have a right to get him to Parliament to respond to it and those provisions are there. I am sorry to say this but I tend to agree with the Hon. Minister that except for a few, most do not read and understand and as a result, we are always talking about things which are just irrelevant at the end the day. We spend so much time talking about nothing. They cannot even fight for their own welfare, they could not but today they are fighting putting energy into something which is just a mere process. The day they start fighting for their own welfare then they can be respected because right now they are not even respected in the streets; there is no fuel, and they are in queues and so forth. It is better for us to talk about the welfare of the Members of Parliament right now because it is not good.
The reason why they are seated here is, they do not know how to get home because they do not have fuel. We must be talking about whether we have fuel to go home. This is quite in order. Minister, please continue; I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon Chair, I very much respect the opinion of Hon. Mushoriwa and his very strong belief that it must not pass. I acknowledge his personal belief and I believe that this is perfectly in order and we can proceed. I thank you.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that we
revert to Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6, 2019]
First Order read: Committee Stage: Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6. 2019].
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2:
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. May I state that I am presenting on behalf of the Committee on Media and Information. The amendments as they appear on the Order Paper are as a result of deliberations of the Committee. So, under Clause 2, on interpretation of
“information officer”; we propose that it reads as; if you look at page 530, at the back of Today’s Order Paper, we have presented our amendments. So, we propose that “information officer” means the principal officer of an entity or any such person designated by the principal officer to act on his or her behalf.
The simple reason is that there are some entities whose principal officers may delay in delegating an information officer. The current state of the Bill reads that the principal officer must delegate and we are proposing that it must not only say “must delegate”. The onus must be on the principal officer to be the information officer but then we give him the power to delegate such that if he fails to delegate, he becomes accountable. That is the rational of our amendment, so that is what we move.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I agree.
Clause 2, as amended put and agreed to.
Clauses 3 to 6 put and agreed to.
On Clause 7;
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. If I may refer you to the explanatory memorandum of Clause 7, at the end of it says, an applicant is not required to justify a request nor are the beliefs of the information officer relevant to the grant of a request. The drafter of the Bill is clear that when an applicant of information is submitting the request for information, the information officer may not ask questions to do with, why you need it, where you are coming from and anything that may be personal or even her beliefs many not be incorporated.
The problem is what is contained in the explanatory memorandum is not contained in the actual clause. What he speaks to in the explanatory memorandum, they did not then write it in the clause. We propose that whatever they wrote in the memorandum they then write it in the Clause. When we are now going to be referring to an Act when it passes, we do not refer to the explanatory memorandum, we refer to the provisions of the section which are borne out of a particular clause.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Chairman. I hear the Hon. Member. Even though it is a constitutional right, you must demonstrate an interest. You cannot just wake up and say I need this information. There should be some interest in that particular information and as a result what he wants, I respectfully reject.
I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. We are not
dealing with an issue of whether we want it or not. It is actually the
Minister’s intention in his explanatory memorandum. It is not us who put it there, it is the Minister and it is very good. For example Mr. Chairman, in other jurisdictions - Sweden for example, the information officer does not ask you why you want that information, neither if he believes that you are going to abuse it or you are not going to abuse it, his or her beliefs must not be a ground for denying information. This is what exactly the Hon. Minister put in explanatory memorandum and we are simply saying extract what you put there and express it in the relevant clause. We are not differing with you Hon. Minister with all due respect.
HON. K. PARADZA: It is in line with the Constitution, very clear. Section 62 says, every Zimbabwean citizen or permanent resident, including juristic persons and the Zimbabwean media has the right of access to any information held by the State or by any institution or agency of Government at every level in so far as that information required is in the interest of the public. There is no need for some officer somewhere to ask me why I need that information. Yes, it is my right.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister was fully aware in the explanatory memorandum and what he intended to achieve. You should only take what is in the explanatory memorandum and put the same in the clause so that it will not be difficult to give out the information because when people are looking for it, it is because they want to use it rightfully. There are laws that protect whatever information you get. So the Minister should not trouble himself because we will be following what other countries are doing and what makes our country work is because of information dissemination.
*HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I want to
assist on this issue. In order for us not to waste time looking at explanatory remarks that come after the Bill has been drafted, let us not refer to the explanatory notes. What is important is what is in the actual Bill. If an explanatory note does not explain clearly what is in the Bill - it can be corrected or removed.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank Hon. Paradza, Hon. Madzimure and I want to thank Hon. Mataranyika for clearly putting it in context. I know where Hon. Chikwinya is coming from but just to put the issue in its correct perspective, Hon. Paradza read the section and ended before completing it. Section 62 of the Constitution on access to information says, every Zimbabwean citizen or permanent resident, including juristic persons and the Zimbabwean media has the right of access to any information held by the State or by any institution or agency of Government at every level in so far as the information is required, in the interest of public accountability.
When we wrote the explanatory memorandum, and I said it should not be quizzed, I violated the Constitution proviso which says, ‘in so far as the information is required in the interest of public accountability, you need to justify’. So you cannot say I want this information, I do not want to be asked any question. That is not the import of the
Constitution. The way this section is couched is perfectly correct and there is no harm in saying I want this because of one, two, three, four. Should you be denied and feel that the entity did not exercise its right correctly then there are administrative and court processes that can be done to ensure that your rights are assessed as per the constitutional provision.
*HON. MADZIMURE: I saw the Minister smiling when Hon. Mataranyika stood up. From the time you start quizzing a person, for example from Chiredzi when they want information and you ask him who he is, from the word go he will be puzzled on what it means and also the person who will be asking will be asked how he is in a position to ask questions and also the judgement of saying, is this person worth of the information. Already, we are violating the Constitution for the person to have access to information. Mr. Chairman, I think the Minister is troubling himself that a person should approach the court for a thing which is clear because if this information belongs to the Government and people are supposed to have that information, they should just be given that information on request instead of approaching the courts so that they get information because the officer can also use his or her own discretion whether to give out the information. We are creating a problem; people will not get the information. We are locking the information.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The Hon.
Member tried to explain what is not there. The Constitution is saying you have the right to get information when there are interests that you have.
There are two categories – if you want to assert your rights or in the public interest. We do not expect you to go to a hospital and demand for Hon. Paradza’s medical records and then you are given the records without any questions being asked.
That is the reason why the Constitution says, is it in the public interest that you are requesting for his medical records, do you want to assert your rights that you are requesting for that information? It is very clear we cannot have an open ended system, otherwise any person can go to Masango and say I want to know Hon. Sikhala’s marital status; how many children does he have, how many cattle does he own and then go on to publish that information. Is it in the public interest? Why do you want it? Then they say I have this information but I cannot give you.
We do not want to open a Pandora box. The Constitution is very clear. You are the ones who put the Constitution there to also safeguard people from abuse. So I think this cause as it is, is very good. Let us support it and I am sure you will appreciate where I am coming from. I thank you.
Clause 8 put and agreed to.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
On Clause 10:
HON. CHIKWINYA: We have a proposed amendment on (b) of
Clause 10 where it says, ‘where the period has been extended in accordance with section 9 within the extended period, the information officer shall be deemed to have refused the request’.
So it speaks to an officer who has not replied within the specified period and we propose the deletion of that clause on page 9 in line 8 and the insertion of the following sub-clause:-
‘(2) When an officer is deemed to have refused a request for access to information, an applicant may lodge an appeal to the Commission in terms of section 35.’
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, I just want it to be captured correctly by the Hansard. We are not deleting anything, it is insertion of this at the end and I concur.
Amendment to Clause 10 put and agreed to.
Clause 10, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 11and 12 put and agreed to.
On Clause 13:
HON. CHIKWINYA: We propose that Clause 13 of the Bill is amended on page 10 in line 6 by the insertion of after ‘images’ of ‘, including braille and sign language’.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, I concur, I agree.
Amendment to Clause 13 put and agreed to.
Clause 13, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 14 to 16 put and agreed to.
On Clause 17:
*HON. MADZIMURE: Minister, on cost, our Constitution recognises the 16 languages. So already you would have discriminated someone on cost because if I need information on any vernacular language one has to incur the cost. We have 16 languages. If you say those who are fluent in English are the only ones who will get information, as it is we would have discriminated everyone. So I think the cost should lie with the Government. If I need a document in any vernacular language, it is the Government that meets the cost not for a person who is looking for information, because they are not fluent in English then they have to pay.
* THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
you Hon. Chair. The Act did not say that you should get your information in English only but it is saying the language in which the information is. I do not know whether you got it right. It is not saying English – in other words it is the form in which it is published and you get it in that language.
The danger now in saying let us give the burden to the institution to be translating into all the languages, we are imposing a cost to the organisation. We are saying if you walk into the Registrar General’s Office, if the language that is used in keeping the document is English, you get a copy in English. If you want it in any other language, then you bear the cost of translating. We do not want to overburden institutions by costs that are not related to their operations. That is the reason why we want to keep it like that but we acknowledge that all the languages are equal but we are saying the organisation is keeping its records in this format. You get it in that format. Should you want a translated version, then you are the one who will now carry the cost.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The official language that is used on our documents here in Zimbabwe is English and that is known. The reason why we recognise 16 languages is because we want our people to get access to all the information in those 16 languages. The burden of translating should lie with the State because if you give information to a person in a form that they do not understand, you would not have given that person information.
Hon. S. Banda having spoken in Chewa.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Mr. Chair. My plea is that some of us do not understand when everything is put in English throughout – [Laughter.] -
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, if the Hon. Member rose for the purpose of outsiders to understand and not me to respond then he can proceed.
*HON. S. BANDA: I was saying that if we want these papers, we always get them in English. If there can be a time when we will get them in our Chewa language so that I will read and understand – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] –
HON. MATARANYIKA: I want to concur with Hon. Madzimure. The fact that documents are stored or kept in English language is just for convenience but if you have someone who comes from the rural areas and does not understand English, it is only proper and fair that the State should incur the cost of translating the English language to whatever language is convenient at the particular moment.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to refer back to the section that confers the rights of access to information in the Constitution. It gives two specific instances in the public interest for public accountability or for asserting a right. The information may not necessarily be in the hands of the State always. You may need information to assert your right from Avenues Clinic for instance. We legislate to say that we are transferring a burden of translating from the individual who is requesting the information to Avenues Clinic. It is not proper.
I am the one who wants to assert my right, I must bear the costs of the translated version. Moreso, it has an added advantage where you have several translations. There is always the text to refer to if there is a dispute. It is in the interest of even that person who is requesting that information to have it in the original language and then you have a translation because you can then refer back. If you now say you want me as an entity to translate it for you and that is the translation that you now go with, you lose some of the information that you need to assert your rights. Let us bear in mind that it is not all the information we require for public accountability. That will be in the hands of the State.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Why do we not say that all the
information that is in the hands of the State, whenever it is translated the cost should be borne by the State. I say so because most of the information that people look for comes from the state.
Secondly, if we talk about costs it means that access to information is no longer there because here we are referring to a grandfather who is from the rural areas and it is information to do with him. The reason why he does not have money is because he wants to understand what is in those papers and he has no other means of getting money. Our people do not have money. I think if we give that responsibility to the State, then the State should have translators on stand-by. For example, the
Constitution should have been translated already in those languages.
Access to information that you are referring to should be there, if we put a component of money then we would have missed it. The Government should lead so that other private players follow because they are using resources that come from us the people. So, people should get that information.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Chair. I think the clause even
on itself is fine because I would agree with the Hon. Minister to say, if me as a person went to look for information, I then say that the
Government should now translate for me and that now puts into question - What if the Government gives wrong information or incorrectly translated information? You will say that Government is the one that gave me wrong information.
I think that if you go and look for information yourself then the cost of going to get the translation should be upon you because you are the one who went to look for that information. I think the clause is fine even on itself. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, I want to thank Hon. Members for their debate and also thank Hon. Tsvangirai – that is exactly why I said that when you have the original text, you know that you have authentic information but when you give the burden of translating on me and you have come to me to request information that you need to assert your right; we want to legislate in a manner that will ensure that you get the correct information that will assist you in whatever you want to do be it public accountability or asserting your rights. I think that we can now proceed Hon. Chair. I thank you.
Clause 16 put and agreed to.
On Clause 17;
HON. CHIKWINYA: The proposed amendment is for the
deletion of the word ‘access’. This is purely to achieve consistency wherever we are going to be using the term ‘fees’, because you will find that in the original texts there are areas where we only refer to ‘fees’ and in other areas we refer to ‘access fees’. So for us to achieve uniformity, just as a cleaning up process, we delete the word ‘access’ and simply refer to ‘fees’ throughout the clause.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chikwinya has suddenly become a good drafter, I agree with him.
Amendment to Clause 17 put and agreed to.
Clause 17, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 18 to 30 put and agreed to.
On Clause 31;
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Hon. Chair. I just want to check on ‘manifestly frivolous’. Who is going to determine whether the information that I am seeking is healthy or unhealthy for me? I think there is need for a distinction of who really is the responsible officer who is going to be able to do that. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I am not sure whether the Hon. Member is very sincere in his question - who is going to determine because it is there in the Bill. I thank you.
HON. S. BANDA: With all due respect, maybe the good Minister can show me where that can be found? Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I will indulge him. It says, ‘An Information Officer - Clause 31 (1), an Information Officer of an entity may refuse a request for access to information’. I thank you Hon. Chair.
Clause 31 put and agreed to.
Clauses 32 to 41 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
HON. K. PARADZA: I just want to say that I am so happy for this 9th Parliament that we have all agreed to make sure that we tear down AIPPA which was a bad law and that Bill is going to repeal this law. So, we are very happy. I am vindicated because in 2003, I stood up here and I said this was a bad law and I was haunted out of the party because of that. I just want to put it on record that I am so happy because I am vindicated. Thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On behalf of the Committee Hon. Chair, I
want to thank the Ministy of Information and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who firstly - I believe we need to follow this precedence. At the point of drafting these laws, that is the laws which are repealing AIPPA, from the point of drafting Parliament was included. We went to Nyanga with the drafters and we had our input. At consultation stage and even at the point of cleaning up the areas where we did not find each other, we had a round table meeting where the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Information and
Parliament were involved. I believe that such a process will remove
some of the political undertones which we may have in terms of suspicion. So I hope that precedence can actually be sustained. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I just rose to thank the Hon. Members for the robust debate. I enjoyed it and I want to concur. I think the procedure that we used when we debated this Bill, we have had long sessions where we shared ideas and that is the reason why you saw we had a lot of concurrence on a lot of issues pertaining to this Bill. It is my wish Hon. Chair, that this culture is continued when we are producing more Bills in future. I thank you.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill is referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I just have one
item, the Minister of Information, Communication Technology and Courier Services has a Ministerial Statement that was requested by this august House. It is not very long and with your indulgence if he can be allowed to present the statement.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
MEASURES TO CURB HIGH COST OF DATA BUNDLES AND
ALLEGED DATA DISAPPEARANCE
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY AND COURIER SERVICES (HON. MUSWERE):
Thank you Madam Speaker. The Ministerial Statement is with regards to the measures to curb the cost of Data Bundles in Zimbabwe and the alleged data disappearance. To begin with, all tariffs in Zimbabwe both wholesale and retail are regulated. In regulating tariffs, Potraz uses the cost based principle, which is the most objective criteria for determining tariffs. Accordingly, as a way of curbing unjustified high data tariffs, Potraz has resorted to the Telecommunications Price Index (TPI) to track cost movements in the provision of telecommunication services since January 2019. Prior to movements in the provision of telecommunication services since January 2019, prior to that, Potraz was using the results of the Long Run Incremental costing (LRIC) methodology to set thresholds for telecommunication services, including
data tariffs.
The use of the TPI was necessitated by the need to facilitate quick decision making in cost-based principle for decisions on tariff adjustments. This is in view of the current challenging business environment characterised by foreign currency shortages and electricity, which has forced operators to resort to alternative means of energy such as diesel powered generators and solar energy.
The computation of the TPI is done in consultation with all operators who provide the necessary information required to compute the TPI. Major cost items included in the computation of the TPI include:
- Network repair and maintenance costs
- Depreciation
- Salaries and staff costs
- Utilities and administration costs
- Rental costs
- Fuel costs
- Marketing and advertising
- Research and Development
- Financing costs
- Capital expenditure costs and
- Foreign Exchange losses
Notwithstanding the fact that operators have been advocating for the pegging of telecommunication tariffs to the exchange rate movements, the Regulator has taken a principles stance not to do so but to track the actual cost movements by computing the TPI, taking into account all the costs of service provision, including those that require foreign currency, which are then adjusted using the inter-bank market exchange rate. This is in the interest of balancing operator viability with service affordability for consumers.
The Ministry has developed the Digital Infrastructure Master plan whose focus is in infrastructure sharing amongst the Mobile Network Operators (MNOs). It should however be noted that data tariffs in Zimbabwe are the lowest in the region. The issue that needs to be addressed more is that of affordability. The regional tariff comparison for data tariffs within the SADC region and the tariffs per services are (in US$ cents), for example in Botswana, Mascom its 11.2 voice per minute, SMS 1.9 and mobile data per MP is 9.3. BTC voice per minute is 12.3, SMS is 2.8 and mobile data per MB is 9.3. Kingdom of Eswathini, Eswathini Mobile voice per minute is 7.7, SMS is 1.8, and mobile data per MB is 5.6. MTN voice per minute is 8.4, SMS is 2.1 and mobile data per MB is 5.6.
Lesotho Vodacom voice per minute is 11.6, SMS is 5.4 and mobile data per MB is 8.8. Econet Lesotho voice per minute is 12.6, SMS is 5.3 and mobile data per MB is 8.8. Malawi Airtel voice per minute is 9.6,
SMS is 2.0 and mobile date per MB is 4.2. TNM voice per Minute is
11.0, SMS is 2.9 and mobile data per MB is 4.4. Mozambique Vocacome voice per minute is 9.8, SMS is 3.2 and mobile data per MB is 6.5. Namibia MTC voice per minute is 10.5, SMS is 2.8 and mobile data per MB is 6.3. TN Mobile voice per minute is 10.2, SMS is 2.5 and mobile Date per MB is 6.3. South Africa MTN voice per minute is 18.2,
SMS is 5.6 and mobile data per MB is 1.1. Vodacom voice per minute is
18.3, SMS is 5.6 and mobile data per MB is 1.1. Zambia that is MTN,
10.5 voice per minute, SMS 1.8 and mobile data per MB 8.4 and for Zimbabwe, we just picked the sample Econet Wireless. Voice per minute is 5 and for SMS 1.5 and mobile data it is 1.1 The regional average, that is 11for voice per minute. For an SMS, that is 3 and for mobile data, that is 6.
For the alleged data disappearance, we have received numerous complaints from consumers on alleged data disappearance of bundles. In the occurrence of genuine cases on billing anomalies which are rare, the regulator has intervened and resolved the cases to the satisfaction of all parties concerned.
However, we have noted that in most cases consumers are not aware that some of the applications activated on their gadgets utilise sizeable amounts of data in the background. Additionally, some gadgets automatically update several applications in the background, oblivious to consumers, resulting in data depletion and bill shocks as airtime can be completely wiped out.
The other case in point to data disappearance occurs where/when consumers staying in or passing through border areas such as Victoria Falls, Plumtree, Beitbridge and Maitengwe, experience inadvertent roaming where they get hooked onto the network from a neighbouring country. This may result in increased data consumption if the consumer has activated data roaming.
On the issue of default out of bundle browsing, Econet Wireless and Netone offer the opt in/out option for automatic out of bundle browsing, hence, there is no default out-of bundle browsing without consent. Telecel is yet to offer this facility, however, it has a notification mechanism that advises subscribers on depletion/exhaustion of data bundles and alerts them to buy new bundles or use out of bundle data. We encourage consumers to report when they suspect billing anomalies for investigation.
In cases where data is depleted due to inaccurate billing, consumers are encouraged to contact their service providers immediately for redress and also to alert them of possible technical problems within their systems. POTRAZ intervenes in cases where service providers fail to address complaints received from consumers by facilitating redress. Accordingly, POTRAZ has also developed an educational brochure on data bundles which educates consumers on the various aspects of data including data bundle types and their terms and conditions as well as measures they should take to ensure that their data is used for the intended purpose and with their knowledge. This initiative is now part of our consumer education and awareness campaigns on bundles as attached.
On data expiry and data roll over, consumers have the right to choose any category of data bundles but the bundles cannot last forever and expire within the stipulated time frames as per the terms and conditions. Some consumers are failing to deplete their data bundles and they feel short-changed as their bundles are not entirely utilised.
Accordingly, POTRAZ issued Regulatory Notice Number 2 of 2019 on data rollover and data transfer in which operators were ordered to put in place mechanisms that ensure users can rollover unused data and can transfer the data to other users on the same network. Internet access providers have implemented the regulatory notice, whilst mobile network operators have asked for more time to invest in the system before implementation. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Chair and thank you
Hon. Minister for that short but eloquent presentation which answers the issues that were raised by the original mover of that motion. Hon. Speaker, my question is with regards to this facility and I hope I can explain it properly. I buy data bundles today on an option that says; daily bundles, because the service providers now have daily, weekly and monthly data packages. I buy data on a daily package and then, because of unavailability of electricity at times, the network is not there and the time lapses for that particular day. In our respective constituencies we are experiencing electricity shortage which affects the boosters’ power. Agreeably, the network providers have said one of their major costs is fuel and it is unavailable.
The network is not there but I would have bought data in the morning and I spend 9 hours without accessing my data. How does the network provider intend to compensate for my lost time, because it is not my problem, neither is it the problem of the network provider. My bundles expire after 24 hours; that is my point of clarification.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is with regards to the data bundles running out. I think , maybe, in other countries we have seen; for example Samsung in South Korea and Apple in the United States where it is not very difficult for a company to tell you that data is running out because of this or that. However, behind the scenes these are companies which have to make their money at the end of the day. I would not put it past Econet for example, to lie to the
Government and say; ‘we are not throttling your data.’ I believe that, that maybe the reason why data maybe running out fast. It may be an issue of over-throttling of data.
My question is: I think one of the problems that happens and was spoken about yesterday is that we are having lack of competition in the country Madam Speaker. For example, if we only have Econet and
Netone which are providing cell service and Econet also now owning Zol, you put too much burden on one company. What if one day Econet is cyber-hacked? So I think may be the space for competition within the cellular data industry also needs to be opened to provide competition in terms of data. Those are my questions to the Hon. Minister. Thank you
Hon. Speaker.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I just
have two points of clarification. The first one, I did not hear quite correctly, the one from Malawi, the megabytes, if the Minister can repeat that, then I can come up with my follow-up question because I was recently there, and I want to check if the figures that he has and what I have are the same. However, I believe that what I have might not be the same.
The second issue Hon. Speaker is; if you go on the internet, you will read that Africa has got the highest price for one gigabyte of mobile data. If you read further, it says, Equatorial Guinea, Zimbabwe and Swaziland are the three most expensive countries when it comes to gigabyte data. I therefore challenge 100% the figures that are being tabled here in Parliament and still insist that Zimbabwe has one of the highest – actually in the Southern Region, Zimbabwe has the highest, most expensive data.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. May I thank the
Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement. I seek clarification from the Minister. I am aware that universities in Zimbabwe are paying on average, 200 000 worth US$ for internet connectivity and I think that is very high Hon. Minister. What is the Ministry doing to reduce the bandwidth in Zimbabwe?
The other issue concerns internet connectivity in the rural areas - some of us represent rural constituencies. Grade 7 students are supposed to apply online and the internet connectivity is very low and is not even there in Gokwe-Chireya which I represent. So what efforts are being done by the Ministry to ensure that there is adequate coverage in terms of internet connectivity in Zimbabwe as a whole?
HON. D. TSHUMA: I would like to seek clarification on the issue of data bundles. I realise that on the presentation by the Minister, he indicated that on the roll over issue they have approached POTRAZ as a Ministry to relay the information to the service providers so that this cumbersome issue is looked into. I would like to find out if there is any form of timeframe that has been given to POTRAZ so that the populace gains from this exercise?
HON. KARENYI: I wanted to make a follow up to say Hon.
Minister, have you taken into consideration the issue of the data bundles? He is saying as Zimbabwe we have got the lowest charges in terms of our internet or data bundles, but I was trying to say I think because of our economy Madam Speaker, I was trying to calculate that a day I may use roughly RTGS$40-50. If I calculate it for 30 days, I think it is going to about RTGS$1 500, which is someone’s salary at the moment. I strongly feel that we cannot compare with other countries at the moment because their economies are sound and their GDPs are different from our economy.
I think they must reconsider also taking what is happening in our current situation because a domestic worker, student, teacher or anyone who is earning below RTGS$4 000 cannot afford data bundles or to get information freely. In other words, those who have got money are those who are now going for Internet and the like. I was saying to myself Minister, I have a daughter who is in Form Six. She is getting all the books on the Internet and wants to download the novels and everything.
If you calculate the amount of money we send to her for downloading of these books and others, truly Madam Speaker it is unbearable. I strongly feel that he must reconsider. He cannot compare Zimbabwe and other countries because other countries have sound economies.
HON. T. ZHOU: The issue regarding data bundles is a sore issue.
This is an issue which affects all of us because everyone now surfs the Internet. The Internet has no specific age group. Everyone goes on social media. So you discover that the cheapest is $7 and you are given 40 megabytes by Econet after purchasing a $7 bundle. As I stand here, when I checked I discovered that the cheapest is $7 and the highest is
$65 worth of 1 200 megabytes. The lowest is $7 by 30 which is around $210, and that is a lot of money. As women, we also want to use the social media. Inasmuch as Zimbabwe is considered the lowest ...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please stick to one language.
HON. T. ZHOU: Let me say that the data bundles are written in
English, so I was trying to express myself.
What I am trying to say is that data is expensive and this is tough for us after paying that amount and as a woman it affects me because when I surf the Internet and then do my household chores, I discover that my bundles will have expired. As women, we also desire to use data bundles whilst we are doing our household chores.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Madam Speaker, my question is to do
with the current three service providers. If I go to Johannesburg today, within five minutes I will be roaming in Johannesburg. Why is it that in Zimbabwe we have no local roaming? What it means is that if I go in an area where there is Telecel, you see many Hon. Members moving around with three cellphones because you cannot roam within
Zimbabwe but I can roam in South Africa, Europe or Asia. Why is it that there is no local roaming? That alone tells you that there is a cartel that does not want to have local roaming.
Secondly, what people must understand about frequencies is because it is a national resource. The frequency each service provider is using is coming from Zimbabwe’s commonwealth so there must be no monopoly to say I do not want because this one did not build up infrastructure. Some of the infrastructure is put so close to houses of people. One way or the other some people say in the long term there will be some problems associated with having those base stations near houses. All the Zimbabweans are requesting is, if I go into one area I must be able to roam locally. I do not now need three handsets. I only require one handset. Thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Madam Speaker. By way of clarity, I wish to invite the Minister to check his statistics again. In the SADC region, we are one of the most expensive countries together with Swaziland. I would like the Minister to verify that but amongst other things, I want to tease out the following Madam Speaker.
This is a multi-billion industry and I keep wondering every time I buy data and it disappears from gadgets if at all as a Government or our Government as a regulator really knows how to regulate this sector. Some of the questions I want to tease out the Minister are on whether we are getting legitimate revenue or taxation from these Internet service providers. Let me give you an example Minister. When data disappears and all of us here lose at least $2 or 3 bond from our phones. The same goes for doctors out there and other people that can afford to buy data, usually we ignore but multiply $3 by roughly 8 million people, that is $24 million in a day. This I think also amounts to retrogressive taxation on poor people like me. Remember Hon. Minister, this is prepaid, unlike someone that first uses data and then pays for it later. I pay for the data before I even use it.
Another example that I have tested myself Madam Speaker, which I would like you to do, buy 40 megabytes of data today, switch off your phone, switch it on tomorrow and try to download a file that is 30 or 35 megabytes, you will not be able to download that, “inongopera.” You wonder what happened to the balance. So my invitation to the Minister is, please protect the poor out there because data is a human right. All we are asking for Minister, is that you ensure positive consumer welfare outcomes and we are part of the consumers
There are regulatory issues Madam Speaker that I want to tease out. There is 100% failure rate from the regulator, Potraz. Why? Potraz goes to bed with Econet. Econet is the single biggest cartel in Zimbabwe in terms of internet service provision. It is a cartel and we have warned our Government that cartels are taking over the economy. This is one example of a cartel; a black face but a white monopoly behind that black face. Is the Minister aware of the existence of patronage relations between Potraz and Econet? The other way of lowering data costs is to introduce competition. There is no competition Madam Speaker. What is happening Hon. Minister at NetOne, we are always firing Chief Executive Officers.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask your question Hon.
Ndebele. Do not debate.
HON. NDEBELE: My question now, relating to the same internet - [HON. MAYIHLOME: Inaudible interjection.] – Do not be cheeky. You are no longer in the army – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members!
– [HON. MEMBERS: Ngaagare pasi!] - Hon. Members, order!
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the
Minister what he is doing about the dominance of Econet – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! You
may go ahead Hon. Ndebele.
HON. NDEBELE: I would want to find out what the Minister is doing about the dominance of Econet. Firstly, they are in the business of wholesaling data because they provide the backbone of bringing in internet into the country. Secondly, they are also involved in selling data to the end user. That on its own is dominant. Econet owns ZOL and Liquid Telecoms, so when we say Government is funding NetOne and when we say the same Government is also funding Telecel, what we are simply saying is, Potraz is funding these entities but where is Potraz getting that money from? It is money coming from Econet, but Econet is paying Potraz so that Potraz pays all these other entities to go to sleep and that they outcompete them.
Madam Speaker, there are other things that I want to tease out the Minister. What is the business model of NetOne for instance? They seem to be 75% parastatal and 15% commercial. So if we introduce real competition, it is only real competition that will assist to bring down data prices. At the moment, Potraz is beholden to Econet because Econet actually funds Potraz through their USS Fund. They pay them millions, 5% in a year. Those are the things that I thought I would check with the Minister. Thank you.
HON. MUSWERE: Thank you Madam Speaker. With regards to
the data roll over, I am sure I explained that Potraz has issued Notice Number 2 of 2019 for data roll over and transfer of data. The internet access providers have activated Notice Number 2 of 2019 and the mobile network operators which are Telecel, Econet and NetOne. They have asked for some more time to activate their system because it is a technical issue. Before the end of the fourth quarter, they have activated their technical systems. In line with Vision 2030, Zimbabwe is open for business and we need more investment in the telecoms sector. Potraz is authorised to licence any new players in the sector.
The other issue about data disappearance, I think I explained Madam Speaker that it is about gadget management. MMOs can also try to assist most of the consumers who are having challenges managing the out of data bundle and browsing within the data bundle.
With regards to infrastructure sharing, Government has developed the digital infrastructure master plan which seeks to share infrastructure within the country. What actually happens is that with the digital infrastructure plan, Government encourages Telecel, NetOne and Econet to share their infrastructure. Mainly, the most expensive part of the infrastructure is the passive infrastructure. So whenever POTRAZ constructs a passive infrastructure then they can be able to install 3 active infrastructure gadgets from the three MNOs. With regards to the investment in NetOne, Government will soon be rolling out the NetOne
MBB phase 3. With regards to the vision of the ministry we want ubiquitous connectivity across the country. The major explicit objective is to ensure that there is business viability and consumer protection. With regards to the costing method which was asked by Hon. Karenyi, we are using the TPI methodology which actually tracks the cost of each and every aspect of the expenditure.
With regards to the gadgets, I have addressed this one and it was just a repetition. Number portability we are working on it, it is a Government policy. For the revenue monitoring, I am sure that was asked by Hon. Ndebele, we have awarded a telecommunication monitoring company to develop what we call The Telecommunication Traffic Monitoring System and Revenue Assuring System (TTMS) which will track the costs. For the spectrum, the interest of the public Madam Speaker superceded private interest. For the issue with regards to the CEO which was asked by Hon. Ndebele, no one has been fired.
This particular matter is before the courts but no one has been fired.
With regards to POTRAZ, it is a professional institution governed by best practice. With regards to decision making, the consultative process is multi-stakeholder. With inter operability of MNOs and MFS, it is a development which is underway Madam Speaker. I thank you.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Given the high
data cost for all communities, because data is now used by all levels of society, would not the Minister with his service providers consider free wifi spaces for schools colleges and public places like libraries throughout the country. This is because students or pupils from primary schools are being requested to access books using data – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not asking you I am asking the Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Can we have free wifi spaces, in public
places, libraries, even buses or trains as part of their social contribution responsibilities.
HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I need
clarification from the Hon. Minister when he gave comparisons of charges in the SADC region. All I wanted to enquire from him was there any consideration taken on the per capita income of the population in which these charges are burdened, so to speak to the population. If you just compare without such variables, South Africa – the population there could be getting more money per capita in terms of salaries and stuff like that. So I wanted to hear from the Minister if that was taken into consideration.
My second point is that we were once promised that the rollover of data was going to be effected. The players had promised that before end of last year they would affect data roll over so much so that if your 24 hours lapsed, your data would be rolled over to the next day, provided it was not used. How far has that gone? My last point of clarification is how far has the Minister gone on enforcing infrastructure sharing between these players, because if infrastructure sharing is enforced Madam Speaker, we might have lowering of data charges - because you will have the three network providers having separate base stations. If they share infrastructure, it is our view that data charges will definitely come down.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Let
me also thank the Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement on data tariffs. I would want to agree with the previous speakers on the issue of data being expensive in this country. Hon. Speaker, let me say the few who are affording the data, I personally have a concern on the regulation particularly on social media. Recently, we have had a statement that the soldiers, the army is going to be surveying our social media platforms.
Madam Speaker, this is a key issue, this is a very important issue –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members – [HON. MAMOMBE: Tanga wanotenga mazino wozouya kunouku, wakundinyanyira.] –
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker the Hon. Member who
is seated over there and looking at you is abusing Hon. Mamombe. The Hon. Member is old with his age to say that Hon. Mamombe loves him is unparliamentary. So, I would like to ask that Hon. Nyabani should withdraw his words. This is not a House for love affairs – [HON.
KARENYI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Karenyi and Hon.
Matangira order. Hon. Matangira I will order you out of the House. I have heard what happened – [HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order!]- Hon. Matangira, I want to give a ruling and you are standing up, I will chase you out of the House. I heard what happened, Hon. Mamombe you are the one who provoked Hon. Nyabani; you said that he does not have teeth. Can you withdraw that? Then Hon. Nyabani should also withdraw his words that he said in response.
*HON. MADAMOMBE: Thank you for your ruling Hon.
Speaker. However, I am not a mad woman who just says things but because I respect you Hon. Speaker, I am going to swallow my words. I
withdraw – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Madzimure, I will send you out if you continue like that. Hon. Nyabani, can you stand up and withdraw your words that you asked Hon.
Mamombe whether she loves you.
*HON. NYABANI: When I said…
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not ask you to debate but I said withdraw your statement.
*HON. NYABANI: I withdraw.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members!
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much for your protection, I really appreciate that. I was in the middle of making my submission to the Hon. Minister in terms of the unformed forces with their role of monitoring our social media platforms.
This was recently announced that the uniformed forces are going to be monitoring our social media. Let me submit this to this august
House; it is not the duty of the military to be monitoring, we understand, because of cyber bullying and so forth, there is need to monitor our social platforms. However, is the military the right people to be monitoring our social media platforms?
Madam Speaker, this is very pertinent in case the other Hon. Members do not understand; I will be using my hard earned money to be buying data then on top of that I have the military monitoring my social media platforms. I need the Hon. Minister to respond to that, can the Government find a civilian group of people to be doing that monitoring not the military. We are not a military State, this should stop. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I did not hear the Hon. Minister responding to the issue of bandwidth. The value of bandwidth used by universities; we have visited universities and noticed that University of Zimbabwe is paying 200 000 USD per month worth of bandwidth which is very expensive. So, I was expecting the Minister to respond to that but he did not.
HON. TSUNGA: having listened to my colleagues, I thought there was one missing element or link and it relates to what Government through POTRAZ, is getting from the tariffs because we may take the service providers that is Econet, Netone and so forth to the slaughter and forget that Government also is an accomplice in terms of what component it gets from the tariffs that we pay. So, if Government can also look at that component and say to what extent can they reduce it so that the overall picture is that of reduced tariffs because Government would have reduced what it takes from the tariffs. I thank you.
HON. MUSANHI: There is interconnectivity between all the networks in the country in terms of calling and messaging. You can be able to phone Telecel using an Econet line and visa a vis but when it comes to money movement, there is only one monopoly. Can the Minister explain to the House why we only have Econet as the only service provider for cash movement in the country? Why not have the same inter-connectivity like we do on calls and other mobile services. I thank you.
Hon. Ndebele having stood up.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May you take your seat Hon.
Ndebele.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
MUSWERE): Thank you Madam Speaker. With regards to free WiFi, Zimbabwe Academic and Research Network (ZARNet) has been capacitated to deal with academic research and currently, Liquid Telecoms and TelOne have been offering free WiFi, for example at the University of Zimbabwe to students.
With regards to what has been asked earlier on by Hon. Ndebele on the turnaround strategies for NetOne, we have now fixed targets to ensure that there is viability within the mobile network operator. Part of these turnaround strategies include 40% revenue share for the year 2020. We have also ensured that they are going to reduce 30% of their OPEX as a cost cutting measure. With regards to capacitation of infrastructure, we have ensured that the implementation and development of the MBB phase three project is activated. We are also working on restructuring the entity to ensure that it is not top heavy.
With regards to the pricing model, the TPI like I said, we have a multi-stakeholder, a process which is cost based. With regards to Hon. Karenyi, she had alluded to the poor performance of the economy. I think we are all cognisant of the fact that we have challenges in this economy. That is why we have the TSP and the two five year economic development plans to turnaround the fortunes of this country.
With regards to infrastructure sharing Madam Speaker, NetOne has confirmed 148 base station sites which they are going to share with Econet. With regards to what Hon. Mamombe asked, the Military is under the purview of the Ministry of Defence, I am sure they can respond to that one but with regards to cyber security, we are developing a Bill which will be debated in this august House is called the Cyber Security and Data Protection Bill.
With regards to the taxation, that is under the purview of the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. With regards to the interoperability within the mobile financial services, thus Telecash, OneMoney and EcoCash, we are developing regulations to ensure that there is interoperability within the framework of the mobile financial services. I emphasise Madam Speaker, that the explicit goal is to ensure that there is business viability and consumer protection. I thank you Madam Speaker.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. MUSWERE), the House adjourned at Twelve
Minutes past Six o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 10th March 2020.