PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Khumalo, please
take your seat. I have received some notices here on point of privileges. Let us not create a habit that is unnecessary, which causes me to say sit down please because you can ask a question on Wednesday. I do not like to do that and I do not want to embarrass any Hon. Member. So, the indulgence is for today - but if one Member is off side, I shall do so to save time.
HON. SPEAKER’S RULING
TABLING OF FORENSIC AUDIT REPORTS
THE HON. SPEAKER: On Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020, Hon.
Biti as Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee, rose on a point of privilege and requested that Hon. Ministers who have not tabled forensic audit reports for entities that fall under their purviews be compelled to do so. I have engaged the Clerk of Parliament – [HON. NDEBELE: Inaudible interjections.] - Can you listen Hon. Ndebele? I have engaged the Clerk of Parliament and indeed the following reports have not been tabled in the National Assembly.
- Report on the forensic audit on NetOne. This is for Minister of
Information, Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services, Hon. Muswere.
- Examination of the agents backing relationship between
People’s Own Savings Bank of Zimbabwe (POSB), Private Limited- Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Prof. M. Ncube.
- Report on forensic audit on Management and Staffing
Procurement System, Property and Non-rail Investments, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. J. B Matiza.
- Findings in respect of the forensic audit on some aspects of the operations of Zimbabwe Revenue Authority; Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Prof. M. Ncube.
- Zimbabwe Revenue Authority Information and Technology forensic audit report, Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Prof. M. Ncube.
- Forensic audit of the financial operations of the Cold Storage Company Limited, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Rtd. Air Chief Marshal P. Shiri.
- African Union Sport Council Region Four under 20 Youth Games Forensic Audit – Minister of Youth, Sport Arts and
Recreation, Hon. K. Coventry.
- Grain Marketing Board Examination of Affairs and
Transactions – Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Rtd. Air Chief Marshal P. Shiri.
- Forensic Audit Report on Allied Timbers – Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry, Hon. M. Ndlovu.
- Forensic Audit Report on Air Zimbabwe – Minister of
Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. J. B. Matiza.
- Forensic Audit Report on the National Railways of Zimbabwe
– Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. J. B.
Matiza.
- Forensic Audit Report on the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation – Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services, Hon. M. Mutsvangwa.
- Forensic Audit Report on the Zimbabwe Electricity Supply
Authority – Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. F. Chasi.
- Forensic Audit Report which examined the upgrading of the Harare Airport Road by Alger Investments – Ministry of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. J. Moyo.
I therefore rule that the responsible Ministers table the reports by
Tuesday, 17 March 2020 at the latest.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE DUE TO LACK OF QUORUM
THE HON. SPEAKER: This one you will have to listen carefully and tell the Hon. Members who are not here. This is a ruling on the adjournment of the House due to lack of quorum.
In pursuant of the provisions of section 137 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and in terms of Standing Order No. 56 (1), (2) and (3), the Chair has observed that since the commencement of the Second Session of the 9th Parliament on Tuesday, 1 October 2019, the House has had to adjourn prematurely due to the lack of quorum on three occasions as follows:-
Tuesday, 3rd December, 2019 there were only 61 Hon. Members present in the House; Tuesday, 25th February, 2020 there were 59 Hon.
Members present, Wednesday, yesterday, 4th March 2020, 65 Hon.
Members were present.
The Chair is deeply concerned about the apparent dereliction of duty by the Hon. Members who absent themselves after registering their names on that days register resulting in the adjournment of the House due to lack of quorum. Consequently, the Chair rules that with immediate effect, all Hon. Members who are absent when the House adjourns due to lack of quorum will not be paid their sitting allowances for that day.
To that end, the Chair is directing the Clerk of Parliament to compile a list of those Hon. Members who will have been absent with the view of disallowing their allowance in future. Further, I am also directing the Clerk of Parliament to prepare a list of Members who are consistently absent when there is no quorum in the House for sharing with their respective political parties who must take corrective action accordingly. Please be guided accordingly.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): On a point of
clarity, Hon. Speaker Sir. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I really appreciate your ruling but I just wanted clarity on tabling of reports of Tuesday. As you can see there are many reports that you want to be tabled on Tuesday and today is a Thursday. I do not want a scenario where Hon. Ministers would appear as if they did not comply with your order, given that tomorrow is a Friday. Can you extend it a little bit as opposed to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Let me make my ruling in peace. Hon. Leader of Government Business, perhaps you missed it. I said at the latest 17th March. So they have tomorrow and another week and another day. Thank you.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of
privilege rests on the fact that I notice there is a lot of disruption in Parliamentary debates arising from Hon. Members heckling at each other and making a lot of noise which disturbs us from behind there. We cannot even hear a thing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I also want to draw your attention, Hon. Speaker Sir that in your absence there is a lot of disruption that goes on even more than what happens when you are around. I am deeply concerned at the lack of respect of this august House by Hon. Members.
Through you Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like you to take corrective action on Members who continuously disrupt debates to the detriment of everyone else in the House. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Infact, I should not be saying order twice if you are really Hon. Members. It starts from there. I thank the Hon. Member for raising that matter of great importance because it speaks to the decorum of the House. I want the Hon. Members to realise that when the Presiding Officers sit on this chair, it is not theirs. It is your chair which you must respect and it has nothing to do with the person sitting in that chair. Tomorrow, the same Presiding Officers may not be there but this chair will be there and we want you to respect the chair and not individuals. More importantly, you must respect yourselves because if you do not respect the Chair, then you do not understand the processes and dignity of the House. We implore you to respect the Chair and not the person behind the chair.
HON. SINGO: I rise on a point of privilege to thank the effort that the Government is doing towards Coronavirus – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I would also want to thank His Excellency for restricting travels outside Africa.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I am saying order to those who are making noise. Please carry on Hon. Member.
HON. SINGO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege, to thank the effort that the Government is doing towards Coronavirus. I would also want to thank His Excellency for restricting travels outside Africa for Government officials which will curb the spread of Coronavirus. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. We shall invoke Article 108 of the Standing Orders to send you out if you do not listen. They say in Shona; chakanaka chakanaka mukaka haurungwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Other countries have done, what the Government has done restricting movements to save the citizens. I do not see what is wrong with that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
Order, Hon. Ndebele, it is not movement from outside but also from outside you may bring and from inside you will contact the virus.
Let us think logically.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of recommendation is that while the Government is doing whatever it can to try and eliminate the Coronavirus, there are also certain steps that they must take. When I was coming into the country, you get to the airport and they take your temperature and they ask you a question – where have you been in the last three weeks and let us say you have been in Zambia; they do not check your passport to see whether you have been in Zambia. The Coronavirus can be in incubation for 24 days and they do not check the passport. What if someone has been to China and says I am coming from South Africa. What measures are they taking at the border to ensure that this passport stamp shows that you are coming from Zambia?
Secondly, my constituency Norton is most worrisome. We have got more than 400 Chinese working at the Chinese Factory. It came to my attention this morning from a member of Norton Constituency who asked if I was aware that there are Chinese who had been quarantined but are moving in and out of the factory. I have the message and I have forwarded it to the Minister hoping that something can be done urgently. At this point in time, Norton is not so sure about what is going on because they are coming in and out. As a result, they are spreading it and bringing it again. That has got to be quarantined. There is need to attend to this in terms of eliminating that in the Norton Constituency.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you for your observation and I think on the first part of your observation, it was Hon. Biti who raised the same and I am sure the Leader of Government business will have some conversation with the Minister of Health so that as people are checked, they have their passports with them so that what they say is verified by the information on the passport.
On the question of the enterprise in Norton, again I am sure the
Hon. Leader of Government business will alert the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care so that necessary steps are taken. It should not only be Norton – whenever there is a concentration of the Chinese workers, not to say that they are infected but that precautionary measures are taken especially when there is going in and out of those enterprises out of the country.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I rise on a point of privilege in terms of Section 68 read together with Section 69 (d). Hon. Speaker, as a Member of Parliament, there are issues that affect me in as far as I work here in Parliament and the constituency. Those issues do not necessarily have to be discussed in the House but there is a platform created by
Parliament where we send our Chief Whips to go and discuss for the furtherance of our interest and that is the Standing Rules and Orders Committee.
In my interaction with my Chief Whip, he reports back to me that the Standing Rules and Orders Committee has not sat for the past three months and as such, the issues with him that affect my performance have not been attended to. Can we be advised when the Standing Rules and Orders Committee is going to sit so that our issues can be attended to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are now going too far – [HON.
MEMBERS: Aaaaah!] - The Chief Whips know that in terms of
Standing Order Number 13, as Members of the LCC, particularly the Government Chief Whip and the Chief Whip of the opposition, they do not have to wait for the meeting of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. It says if there are issues that affect the operations of the
Members, they can approach the Speaker – not the Clerk but the
Speaker, that avenue is there. They have not come to see me – [HON. MEMBERS: Not yet!] – I was going to ask you to withdraw the statement.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I am
rising on a point of privilege. Last night, when I was watching the news at 2000 hours I was very disturbed Hon. Speaker. My performance as a Member of Parliament is being affected by the negative reporting by the public broadcaster which is the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation (ZBC).
Hon. Speaker, if you noticed, yesterday we had a very good debate and good interactions with Hon. Ministers – there was a good Question and Answer session but of all the things, the public broadcaster which is ZBC, decided only to show the public the incident that happened between Hon. Sikhala and Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga on the issue of Grace Mugabe – which is very unfortunate. The perception that is out there about Parliament is not going to be corrected when our public broadcaster is continuously being skewed towards their reporting. Hon. Speaker, I would like you to engage the Hon. Minister of Information,
Publicity and Broadcasting Services so that they portray a good image about our Parliament, especially when we do debates. I thank you. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, before I respond, I want to make a correction about the Standing Order concerning the Chief Whips. It is Standing Order Number 15 and not 13 – I hope Hansard will correct that. It is Standing Order Number 15 and not 13.
Your observation Hon. Mamombe is fine but again, that should be asked as a question so that there is some debate and supplementary questions can be asked accordingly. Thank you.
I think Hon. Mpariwa you are the last one – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – May I say that in future, we shall allow not more than three Points of Privilege from either side.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, when we look at
the calendar, today is 5th March and on Sunday it will be 8th March, which is an International Women’s Day that is recognised globally and Zimbabwe is one of the countries that celebrates such a day. There are 52% women in Zimbabwe. I am saying this because a census is being conducted. However, the statistical results are yet to be published.
Hon. Speaker, women also have a right to have robust debates to talk about various issues that affect women and other issues that may be of importance to women. I am saying this because starting from the Hon. Speaker and other Hon. Members, all parties represented were borne of women. I take this opportunity to congratulate all Zimbabwean women and women the world over for this year’s International Women’s Day.
However, before I resume my seat Hon. Speaker, there are some gaps particularly towards …
*THE HON. SPEAKER: I wanted to instruct you to sit down
Hon. Member but I will allow you to continue.
*HON. MPARIWA: Mr. Speaker, when we look at the public holidays that we recognise in Zimbabwe, looking at our local calendar, I am one of the women who have raised this issue several times. I believe that the International Women’s Day should be recognised as a public holiday. It is my plea Hon. Speaker that this day should be recognised as a public holiday in Zimbabwe.
My voice is not clear because I was tear-gassed two weeks back. I am one of the people who had organised people on the 8th and the Zimbabwe Republic Police denied us that opportunity. They advised us to hold the gathering on the 14th but to me Hon. Speaker, it is like postponing Christmas so that it is celebrated on 30th December. My plea is that actions that are taken against women should be considerate. When police are dealing with women, I believe they should remember that they come from women and afford us due respect. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mpariwa. I believe that as women or as Hon. Members, we need to come together and request officially from the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development for the issue to be taken up to Cabinet for the issue to be discussed so that the International
Women’s Day is recognised. We are going to do that and make sure that we engage Hon. Minister Sithembiso Nyoni. – [HON. T. MOYO: Mr.
Speaker, there is an outstanding Point of Privilege!] – No, time is gone.
You should see the Clerk or myself later.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that
Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day are disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B.10, 2019]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: International Treaties Bill
[H. B. 10, 2019].
House in Committee.
COMMITTEE STAGE
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10, 2019]
Second Order Read: Committee: International Treaties Bill [H. B.
- 2019]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I promised the Hon. Member Phulu that we will include a definition of a foreign organisation. So, I propose on page 5 of the Bill to insert the following sub-clause, the existing clause becoming subclause (1):
“(2) If any question arises as to the meaning of a “foreign organisation or entity” in connection with the application of Section 327 of the Constitution, or in any other legal context in which the scope of Zimabwe’s foreign obligations is in issue, that phrase (or “foreign organisation” or “foreign entity’) shall mean any corporate entity domiciled or incorporated outside Zimbabwe”. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I think there is something wrong with the mike, we can hardly hear the Minister. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- No, but I am seated here and if I cannot hear then it means all those people are not hearing.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I repeat Hon.
Chair. I am proposing the following amendment
Hon. Mamombe having been talking
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon.
Mamombe I think I am going to send somebody out of the House at the moment.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I repeat Hon.
Chair. I am proposing the following amendment: o
On page 5 of the Bill to insert the following sub-clause, the existing clause becoming subclause (1):
“(2) If any question arises as to the meaning of a “foreign organisation or entity” in connection with the application of Section 327 of the Constitution, or in any other legal context in which the scope of
Zimbabwe’s foreign obligations is in issue, that phrase (or “foreign organisation” or “foreign entity’) shall mean any corporate entity domiciled or incorporated outside Zimbabwe”. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I just want the Hon. Minister
to explain to us because apparently, I do not believe that this Bill is going to be Treaties Act of Zimbabwe, and naturally I think this Act should apply to all and I actually believe that there is need to ensure that publications of all Treaties, all may not be domestication, but the publishing, members or a country at large needs to know all the various treaties that this Country will enter from time to time. This is the reason I would want in that cause to remove the word, the publication aspect. I believe that it is of necessity. I can agree on the domestication but the need for all Treaties because this Treat is supposed to be superior to all the other Acts of Parliament that relate to any other Treaty. I submit Mr.
Chair.
THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. The reading of this Section indicates that if we have any other Act, where exactly what he is praying for is provided for, there is no need. So he is actually speaking about the need for publication and this clause is specifically saying that; to say that if it is provided for in another Act, the publication and domestication, there is no need to do it under this Bill. For instance, we have international agreements and customs agreements that are published under the Income Tax Act, we do not need to do it now when it is already provided for. So, what he is praying for is exactly what we are setting in this particular clause. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Minister, what happens in a situation where a certain Act of Parliament makes a provision pertaining to a particular treaty but does not have anything in it that talks to its publication; would you be saying that the provision of this Act will then take centre stage? I want to believe that there are certain Acts of Parliament which do not mandate the publication of certain treaties, be it bilateral treaties.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I think we are in agreement with the Hon. Member. If you read the clause, it says; ‘the
Act shall not apply to the publication or domestication.’ So if another Act provides for the domestication but not publication, this Act applies.
If it applies to the publication but not domestication, this Act will apply.
If there is an Act that applies to both publication and domestication, this Act will not apply. So his worries are already covered by the very wording of this Act. I thank you.
Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 4 put and agreed to.
On Clause 5:
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I am worried that in the appointment of functions of PAC it looks like there is a deviation and Parliament is no longer required to be part of the appointment system. It is only the Attorney General, the Ministry itself, Ministry of
Finance and Economic Development and the Office of the President and Cabinet. I do not know why Parliament is now out of the mix. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I rose to allay his fears.
This is an Executive Committee and Parliament’s role in ratifying agreements has not been taken away from you. Parliament is still relevant when all the Executive functions have been done to ensure that agreements are tidied up, clear, in the national interests and then they are tabled in Parliament for you to assert your role in ratifying the treaties. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I just wanted to inquire from the Hon .Minister. If you check on the composition of PAC, there is one from the Attorney General, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the President’s Office, bringing them to about four. Ordinarily, Hon. Chair, most Committees usually have five, an odd number and I just want to find out; I think we are diverting from what has actually become the norm so that – because what then happens, assuming that the four members end up; two opposing and two for. What will be the mechanism to break that deadlock?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. This is a subcommittee of the Executive, so it operates by consensus. Should there be a disagreement, you do not resolve the disagreement by voting, you refer it back to the principals. I thank you.
Clause 5 put and agreed to.
Clause 6 put and agreed to.
On Clause 7:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I have huge challenges
pertaining to Clause 7 (4) which provides that ‘any international treaty which falls within the scope of the prerogative powers of the President in the sphere of international relations, may be published by the
President by statutory instrument at his or her sole discretion.’ I have got serious reservations in that regard. I want to believe Hon. Chair, that whenever the President, in his own prerogative, decides, assents, signs or enters into an international treaty or bilateral relations, it ties the nation. Therefore, I would like to request the Hon. Minister to remove the word ‘may,’ and replace it with ‘shall.’ It should be mandatory because every treaty has to be seen by all the people of this country.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his spirited attempt to ensure that everything is mandatory as he speaks. However, there are certain agreements that dictate, because of the nature of the agreement; for example, peace treaties. There are certain secret agreements that need not be published but they are of essential importance to the nation and the President must be given the prerogative to enter into those and at his discretion, depending on the nature and content of the treaty to publish them if he so wishes. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, with all due respect to the Hon. Minister, the President as a human being, as an elected officer, cannot have anything that can be seen as if it is actually being personalised. Everything that the President does, he is the number one citizen of the country and is representing the country. To that extent, Hon. Chair, I do not understand what the Hon. Minister is saying that there can be certain private treaties that the President may sign. I do not think it is possible. It cannot happen in a democratic and open state like Zimbabwe.
Get me right, Hon. Minister, we are not stopping the President from signing any treaty which he or she may think will do good for this nation, but what we are basically saying is that we cannot then allow the President to keep those treaties in a cupboard. Nothing can be secret. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, a President is a citizen and a President acts on behalf of the people. Whatever a President commits to affects the people. It is not his own treaty. That is why in other countries you even have a committee of Parliament that deals with those treaties. Once the President has signed a treaty, he has committed the entire country to that treaty and it will eventually affect the people of Zimbabwe. So there is no reason whatsoever to then have any treaty that can be called a secret, because it will involve the people.
If it is a military treaty it will involve our children who are in the army. If it is to do with intelligence, it will still affect the people of
Zimbabwe who work in the intelligence. So it is not an individual’s treaty, it is not a private treaty for a President, moreso in a democratic state where Presidents come and go.
Also, Mr. Speaker, we cannot trust entirely on an individual whose state of mind at any given time can change. So it is an institution’s treaty, it has to be a country’s treaty and not a presidential treaty. It would be setting a dangerous precedence and this is exactly why eventually a number of Presidents start feeling that they own the state and they can do anything. It is wrong for us to do so.
HON. S. BANDA: Hon. Chair if we allow secret treaties, when I become the President I can also have secret treaties where I can have a friend somewhere who I can just discuss with and say I am going to give you 20 000 hectares of land, come and do one, two and three. So it is a secret.
We do not want that Hon. Chair. We want something that is open that benefits all Zimbabweans, those who are here today and those who will be there in the future. So we beg you that it should be open. Thank you.
THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. Hon. Chair we have a scenario here where Hon. Members are not reading what is in the Bill and they go in their own direction interpreting things that are not in the Bill.
If you read this subsection it says an international treaty. So there is no international treaty about giving each other land, Hon. Member and the clause goes on to say, ‘that which is in the scope of the prerogative of the President’. This has already been defined in the Constitution under the Executive power that is given to the President in Section 110 of the Constitution. So let us not make imaginary treaties in our head. This is speaking to something that has been conferred on the President already to say it is within his prerogative and we are simply saying if it is within his prerogative, it is still in his prerogative to publish or not in a Statutory Instrument.
So it is very consistent. If you do not want it we can then revisit the Constitution and remove the Presidential prerogative powers. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I think the Hon. Minister is actually also contradicting himself. Hon. Chair, for the benefit of the
Minister - I am actually holding the Bill, this is what the clause says, ‘an international treaty’ I want to underline the word ‘international’. There is no way the President of Zimbabwe can engage in a private international treaty. The moment it becomes an international treaty, it is something that is going to bind Zimbabwe and everything that happens, like for instance in Zimbabwe, you are aware, Hon. Chair, that even bilateral agreements, when the President goes to Russia, to China to sign the mega deals, everything is actually reported and I am just wondering what sort of international treaty that can be so private, so confidential to the extent that you do not want the country to know.
What I would want the Hon. Minister to do, probably if he intends to convince us, can he tell us any such international treaty. We want an example of an international treaty that the President has actually done so privately and decided to simply say no, I will not publish it.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, let me start by correcting my colleague Hon. Member of Parliament to say that if the President signs an international treaty, it does not automatically bind Zimbabwe. That is the reason why we have in the Constitution a whole section 327 that speaks exactly to that and there are treaties that are allowed that are within the prerogative of the President, which is exactly what we are saying. I have already given an example of peace treaties or treaties of alliance and the Hon. Member, if he is so willing, I will be able to furnish him with reading material that speak to what I am saying, but an international treaty does not automatically bind a country because it has been signed, unless our Constitution so says, but our Constitution does not say once a treaty is signed automatically it binds the country. I thank you.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. There are Hon. Members on your right, particularly Hon. Nzuma, I think they have had a bit more sadza and maybe they are trying to sleep [Laughter.] - so I urge them to wake up and to contribute to this important debate, Hon. Kwaramba as well. Thank you.
HON. TSUNGA: Still on Clause 7, Hon. Chair, I think as people of Zimbabwe we are both stockholders and stakeholders in the affairs of this country and we have a vested interest in all the decisions that are made that impact our lives. Having said that, I think that the clause is a bit worrying in that it allows the President to decide whether to publish or not because it says ‘he may’. In other words, he may not. What that means is that the President may do certain things behind everyone’s back and we all do not know what treaties, conventions or agreements he has signed on behalf of all of us.
What is important is that there must not be that leeway to allow the President to decide arbitrarily whether to publish or not as stated in that clause. I would rather we have it that he must necessarily publish so that it is open to critique by the citizens of this country who are important stakeholders, stockholders, citizens and owners collectively of this country. My submission is that the clause needs fine tuning so that we do not allow a single person to arbitrarily make decisions about the country and further to that, decide on their own will whether to publish it or not.
Necessarily, all agreements, treaties and conventions must be published rather than allowing people to decide against publishing. How will we know and critique if we do not know that certain things have been signed?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I present my last submission because I notice that we are now repeating the same point over and over again. I have indicated that the President is given powers and we have specifically stated here – where a treaty is within the President’s prerogative, and these are not many. They are few. He is allowed to do that. I have stated certain treaties that I have classified to say if he signs a peace treaty, for instance like what we did many years ago, we signed a peace treaty with DRC for instance. It is within the President’s prerogative to publish the contents of that peace treaty if he so wishes that it is in the national interest but if he believes that there are security issues that dictate that the contents of that peace treaty must not be published, it is within his prerogative.
I submit that as it is, the clause is alright and I move that we proceed as it is.
HON. MADZIMURE: This word that the Minister continuously uses – prerogative; if there are contents that the President feels he should disclose or not disclose, this is where it is really worrying. What are such contents that the President might feel? If it is part of the treaty that he can feel, it should not be disclosed to the people of Zimbabwe because he does that on behalf of the people of Zimbabwe. When we talk of prerogative on matters that will eventually affect the people, it becomes very difficult.
This is exactly the problem where we end up being committed to things that the entire nations feel was not necessary. These are the counter checks that must be built in any law or anything that we commit ourselves to.
I will understand the Hon. Minister’s concerns because his job is sometimes to come and defend what the Government will have agreed on. This is very disturbing. The people of Zimbabwe cannot be committed to anything that may be used or where the President has the prerogative to inform them. There must not be a prerogative. As long as it affects the people; some of the secrets are so demining that by the time that you realise that was the reason, that is when you find people being impeached. It is purely because of committing people to some things that are not right.
We have Parliament to see that the executive is held to account and this is what we are calling for. Zimbabwe is a constitutional democracy where we have got three arms of the State. If the President does something that the people of Zimbabwe feel that, no he should not have committed us to, we must have the right to say no. Therefore, any contents of a treaty must be disclosed because he is not entering into a treaty on his own behalf but on behalf of the country and for the people of Zimbabwe.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I wish to end the debate on this clause. I have already made my position clear and I have already indicated that I am not changing. I just want to clarify – an international treaty that is signed by the President according to the Constitution does not bind
Zimbabwe until it is approved by Parliament. We cannot spend the whole day arguing over a treaty that is within the prerogative of a President elected by the people and the very same President is entrusted with – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - When they were speaking, I was silent.
THE HON. DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, any President in the world is entrusted with the security of his nation. When you speak about security issues, you do not publish them in a Gazette. This would be the first country where a country publishes issues that deal with security. A President is elected by the people to ensure and defend the interests of the country. I propose that we proceed and I request that we divide the
House if we cannot agree – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order,
order why are you standing Hon. Member, may you resume your seat?
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Chair, I rise to try and find a middle of way approach. My submission Hon. Chair is that before you or before this House today on the Order Paper is another Bill that we are going to consider with regards to access to information. The whole issue here is about transparency and the Freedom of Information Bill speaks to that.
My question to the Hon. Minister is, are treaties that are not yet ratified by Parliament public information? If they are, there is therefore a remedy with regards to accessing of such as contained in the Freedom of Access to Information and if the treaties are to do with defence and security, there is again a law that provides for conditions under which information cannot be released to the public both in Section 62 (4) of the Constitution and again in the Freedom of Information Bill.
So in his response, he may want to advise us on the type of treaties that he does not want to be published. If they are under defence and security we do not need to then waste our time because they are as contained in the Constitution. If they are general treaties in terms of transparency and accountability, again provisions of how to access the same are in the Bill that is going to be before you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, he is very correct if you want to access any information there is a law that allows you to do so and we have that remedy. He is equally very correct that there is certain information of a security nature that you cannot access and there are procedures that are followed. So I want to thank the Hon. Member for that, if you want to access that information and you feel that it is important for you, there are procedures that you follow to get it.
Hon. Madzimure having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is it that you want to
say? The Hon. Minister is very clear and has actually taken into consideration … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, why you now say that the Hon. Minister was very clear was after Hon. Chikwinya had insisted. Had he not done so, then the Hon. Minister was not going to give that clarification. If you muzzle us out – that is why we have bad laws because you do not allow us to talk. This is Committee business and we are dealing with a specific section yet you do not want us to debate that.
Why do we have a Committee Stage of the Bill? It does not work.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Madzimure, I had
conferred with the Hon. Minister because Hon. Chikwinya had approached me. The views that Hon. Chikwinya posed have been positively considered by the Hon. Minister. I cannot understand why you still want to air your other views. What is it that you want to say
now?
HON. MADZIMURE: Chair, I was just saying we have
Committee Stage in order to thoroughly interrogate Bills section by section. My own thinking cannot be attributed to Hon. Chikwinya to say Hon. Chikwinya said this and the Hon. Minister responded in this manner, then it is fine with all of us. I even think that in Parliament we have a Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade that must be seized with all the treaties and what happens outside our borders in as far as our Government is concerned.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is now high time that such committees are treated with respect. These committees must be briefed by the Executive on some of these commitments. My argument is that this issue of saying that it is the prerogative of the Executive to disclose information is wrong. I propose that we establish a procedure where the committee of Parliament on Foreign Affairs and International Trade is briefed on these issues even if it was going to be the only committee that is briefed on those issues. It must be so for every treaty that is signed by the President is brought for scrutiny.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I want to put it on record. The Hon. Minister in his response, I had asked him to give us a single treaty and what he did was that when he stood up, he gave one treaty – the one pertaining to the DRC.
Hon. Chairman, that response actually gives me more energy to demand that this clause needs to be amended. Part of the problems that Zimbabwe had come with the fiscal obligation that came through the
DRC and never again shall Zimbabwe allow such treaties to happen – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – To that extent Hon. Chair, it is my submission that Zimbabwe is a democratic and open State. There is nothing that should be hidden – everything should be put on paper. If it is a question of security, it is covered under the Constitution and other Acts.
So there is nothing or unless if there is something that the Hon. Minister is not telling us, I submit Hon. Chair that for this reason, this clause needs to be amended. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. My
point of order is that while I totally follow the debate from both sides, I think there are certain provisions in the Constitution that can get the President fired in case he does not do his work.
In the last sitting, a motion that was moved by Hon. Mutsvangwa, supported by Hon. Maridadi as the seconder impeached the President. One of reasons was that he was not doing things constitutionally. So to me at any given time, if there is need to impeach the President because he is not doing the right things – I think that can happen. Not only that
Section 140 (3) of the Constitution also gives us the power to call the President to Parliament and ask him on any issues, I implore Hon. Members of this august House to have a joint meeting where we can invite the President, on any other issues that we do not understand even now.
There is a provision and there are provisions in the Constitution that allow for that to happen. If the President has signed any treaty that is not in line with the good governance of Zimbabwe, he can be called to order. There is no one who is above the law in this country. It is no wonder the former late President was impeached and as a result, he left because of him not following the Constitution. So there is that provision and I thought I could remind Members of Parliament that the
Constitution allows us to do so many things as when we get to that point at the end of the day. It was just a reminder to them.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Chairman, I am pleased by the debate and
for lack of a better word – the extent of the ignorance that is there.
There was no treaty that resulted in us losing money in the DRC – [HON. MEMBERS: What happened?] - I spoke about a peace treaty. You do not sign a peace treaty and you lose money because you made peace.
In the Constitution - I want to thank Hon. Mliswa. It is very clear on deployment of forces. So for us to be confused about things that are very clear in the Constitution, it is very disheartening to say that the President has concluded a Treaty which will not bind Zimbabwe because it has not been ratified by Parliament and then we labour on a point that will be bound. When we deploy our forces, there are clear cut constitutional provisions that say what has to happen and this august House has the power even to disregard that and call the President to order like what Hon. Mliswa said. I think we are labouring on nothing and I implore the Hon. Speaker to proceed as it is. I thank you.
Hon. S. Banda having stood up on a point of order
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, the Hon. Minister has
sufficiently responded to that, we need to move forward.
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Chair, for you to then say the
Minister has sufficiently answered, that is not correct because it is us the
Hon. Members who should feel that we have been sufficiently answered.
So in this case we are not sufficiently answered and we still want the
Minister to consider removing “may’.
HON. S. BANDA: I call for the division of House.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is important for you to read the Standing Rules. It is up to the Chairman to go ahead with the division or not. You must read your rules in Parliament so that you know. He can override
that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Mliswa is
correct. I called for the division of the House and they refused. It is in your prerogative to say whether it is necessary. They refused when I said so.
HON. MADZIMURE: No one refused. We said we wanted to debate more.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): If you now want,
you can call for the division and we can go for it.
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON: Because the Minister is not going
to change.
Clause 7 put and agreed to.
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON: Order, Order Hon. Mliswa.
Clause 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9:
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want to check if there are any other International Treaties that were concluded before the commencement of this Act which are being referred to by this particular section? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I do not see the relevance of the question to what is referred to in the Bill.
HON. MADZIMURE: The fear that the Hon. Member has is the
issue of condoning all the other Treaties because this is what it refers to.
Can we have the list of those Treaties that is the only question?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I
have already responded that a list of Treaties is not the subject of what we are dealing with at the moment. It is a question for another day. If Hon. Madzimure requests a list of Treaties that were approved, it can be furnished, but surely I cannot be expected to stand here and give a list of Treaties when we are looking at legislation to deal with International Treaties - how they are supposed to be approved. In all fairness, your question can be referred to the relevant Minister, to supply all the treaties that were approved. I am sure he will oblige. Thank you.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister is pretending to be ignorant, yet he knows what he is talking about. We are referring to all the treaties that were discussed before this Bill and which will be covered in this Bill. Whether you know the treaties or not, you are trying to say that you do not know them at all. The point is; which treaties are these Hon. Minister?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, Hon. Madzimure is the one who is acting confused yet he is not confused. Clause 9 provides for ‘every international treaty that was concluded before the commencement of this
Act. On Section 7 (3), it provides that, ‘subject to subsection (4) and
(8), every international treaty which has been approved by Cabinet and Parliament and ratified or acceded to by the President shall be published by the President by statutory instrument.’ Clause 9 provides that, Section 7 (3)… applies to every international treaty that was concluded before the date of commencement of this Act. This means that what has been provided for should be published. So, I do not know where the confusion is coming from. Should I come with the whole list and table it here, where is it coming from? I thank you Hon. Chair.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
*HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Hon. Chair. We were allocated portable computer gadgets so that we can keep all the information we might need. In our pigeon holes the treaties are also there. The other side of the House, there is no one who is holding a document and they are simply saying ‘no debate – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think Hon.
Madzimure wants to continue to be moribund, rudimental and antiquated – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – He wants to continue to be ‘BBC,’ he wants to remain in the doldrums of technological advancement – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I seek your protection, not only for me but for all the other progressive members who have seen it fit to be collaborated, coordinated and networked – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
On Clause 10:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, ordinarily, I would not stand to debate this clause. However, Hon. Chair, you need to understand part of the challenges that we have with the Minister’s regulatory and other powers. Hon. Chair, you will note that the power to make laws is vested with the Parliament of Zimbabwe and the President. However, what has been happening in this country for the past 10 months of 2019, there has been 233 statutory instruments that have been passed by the Government through various ministers.
What they have done is usurp the powers of Parliament. To that extend, I find it difficult today to support this clause because previously in this House, we have allowed the ministers under the belief that they would act in a reasonable manner to fill the gaps that are left and come up with some regulations. What has actually happened is that the ministers are abusing that little power that they have and substituting us Parliamentarians. Now, we have a challenge; you go out there, industry and various stakeholders are complaining. To that extend, I object to this clause. I want the clause to say; ‘the Minister, with the approval of Parliament, may make such regulations.’ What do I mean Hon. Chair? I want a situation where any regulations, now it should actually be mandatory to be debated in this august House because our powers have been usurped and it is now time that both sides of the House, we should stand to defend this House and the people who elected us.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Hon. Chair. The reason why we have the Committee that is chaired by Hon. Mataranyika is because we want to ensure that all the laws of Zimbabwe are scrutinised. Allowing Ministers to continuously issue regulations has shown us that it is not progressive. If you look at the situation where we are today, like what Hon. Mushoriwa has said, the number of statutory instruments that have emanated from the ministers have proved to be disastrous.
I want the ministers, out of those 233 regulations to say, which one has promoted the interests of this country. So we have irrational ministers being allowed free open cheque to manipulate the laws and usurp the powers of this Parliament. It is not good. Issuing regulations shows clearly that when the law was crafted, sharp minds were not used.
It is because it was rushed and done for a specific purpose which sometimes can be outdated. I do not think that we can continuously give ministers open cheques, they must be serious as they craft laws.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. The Constitution jealously guards the power of Parliament in terms of legislation. The same Constitution ensures efficient operation, gives delegated authority to ministers to issue regulations and Statutory Instruments. The same Constitution and our Standing Rules and Orders make provision for the same to come to Parliament. The same Parliament and I am a bit saddened today Hon. Chair, that we are not very well educated about parliamentary procedures or informed so to speak – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Who?] – I am saying all of us, we are not well informed about parliamentary procedures. I think I will request Parliament administration so that we can go through some of these things again.
We have in the Constitution a Committee called Parliamentary
Legal Committee which is chaired by Hon. Mataranyika. That
Committee is a constitutional Committee – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no need for you to
make noise Hon. Members, you are supposed to listen.
HON. ZIYAMBI: It is chaired by Hon. Samukange, I am sorry. That Committee has delegated authority from Parliament to scrutinise legislation on behalf of all of us. Every time the Speaker announces that this particular month we have received so many Statutory Instruments and a non-adverse report. if there is a adverse report, it comes here and we debate. There is nothing that stops even the Portfolio Committees to have oversight over those and say we picked this and you come and debate here. For the efficient and operation of Government, you cannot say there must not be delegated authority to legislate; it can never happen anywhere in the world.
Let us look at ourselves here rather than look at the Executive to say, what are we doing in terms of our role as parliamentarians in so far as Statutory Instruments and regulations are concerned? Are we doing enough to have a look at them? So there is nothing wrong with this. The only reason why they referred to it is because of some unknown fear but the powers are in this House to deal with that, I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Chair, I am actually happy
with what the Hon. Minister has alluded to. I actually believe that most Ministers have not had time to also understand what the law also said in terms of those Statutory Instruments and the regulations. Hon. Minister, you are right, the Parliamentary Legal Committee looks into the constitutionality whether those Statutory Instruments do not contravene the Constitution. Our question is very simple; if you have a country where a Government in less than 12 months comes with 233 – [AN
HON. MEMBER: It is unheard of.] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order Mr. President Sir, this is not arising out of this. The question of whether the Executive has issued 1000 Statutory Instruments is not what we are seated here to do. The Committee is dealing with the clause that says the Minister may make regulations. If you have any problem with this you address it. So I think the Hon. Member is out of order by making reference to other issues; he should deal specifically with this. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: The Hon. Minister is very much aware
that part of the reason I was giving that background information is, it relates to what we are discussing under 11. What I am saying Hon. Chair, I want a situation that can make this country move forward but we also need to make sure that the zone of authority of Parliament – this blanket, to say that the Minister may make such regulations and give such directions as he or she may deem necessary has been abused in the past and is being abused. This is the reason why I am reluctant to have this clause pass as it is. We have allowed these clauses in various legislation and Bills before. Now we are wise because we have realised that the delegated powers are being abused. So the Hon. Minister is very much aware that I am making reference to 11 and I am simply saying
that I do not want a situation that we should continuously give ministers more powers to make these regulations through the various Statutory Instruments.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think my colleague the Hon. Member is correct regarding powers being with the ministers. If you recall during the ZIDA, I was very clear to all Members of Parliament that we have put so much power in the Ministers. We need to start the process of curtailing that power. Moving forward, Parliament unfortunately will never get to that point and I must say this to both sides that at the end of the day they are whipped. After all this debate no one will go against what he wants and at the same time we do not have enough numbers on this side. Moving forward, it is important that the day that we Members of Parliament decide to agree that Members of Parliament must have power, we must have a joint meeting where we clearly say what we want but can also not predetermine what the Minister will do before he does it.
So allow the Minister to do that and not only that Parliament itself has certain procedures which can be accountable to South Africa, for example if the Minister passes Statutory Instrument you have a right to get him to Parliament to respond to it and those provisions are there. I am sorry to say this but I tend to agree with the Hon. Minister that except for a few, most do not read and understand and as a result, we are always talking about things which are just irrelevant at the end the day. We spend so much time talking about nothing. They cannot even fight for their own welfare, they could not but today they are fighting putting energy into something which is just a mere process. The day they start fighting for their own welfare then they can be respected because right now they are not even respected in the streets; there is no fuel, and they are in queues and so forth. It is better for us to talk about the welfare of the Members of Parliament right now because it is not good.
The reason why they are seated here is, they do not know how to get home because they do not have fuel. We must be talking about whether we have fuel to go home. This is quite in order. Minister, please continue; I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon Chair, I very much respect the opinion of Hon. Mushoriwa and his very strong belief that it must not pass. I acknowledge his personal belief and I believe that this is perfectly in order and we can proceed. I thank you.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that we
revert to Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6, 2019]
First Order read: Committee Stage: Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6. 2019].
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2:
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. May I state that I am presenting on behalf of the Committee on Media and Information. The amendments as they appear on the Order Paper are as a result of deliberations of the Committee. So, under Clause 2, on interpretation of
“information officer”; we propose that it reads as; if you look at page 530, at the back of Today’s Order Paper, we have presented our amendments. So, we propose that “information officer” means the principal officer of an entity or any such person designated by the principal officer to act on his or her behalf.
The simple reason is that there are some entities whose principal officers may delay in delegating an information officer. The current state of the Bill reads that the principal officer must delegate and we are proposing that it must not only say “must delegate”. The onus must be on the principal officer to be the information officer but then we give him the power to delegate such that if he fails to delegate, he becomes accountable. That is the rational of our amendment, so that is what we move.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I agree.
Clause 2, as amended put and agreed to.
Clauses 3 to 6 put and agreed to.
On Clause 7;
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. If I may refer you to the explanatory memorandum of Clause 7, at the end of it says, an applicant is not required to justify a request nor are the beliefs of the information officer relevant to the grant of a request. The drafter of the Bill is clear that when an applicant of information is submitting the request for information, the information officer may not ask questions to do with, why you need it, where you are coming from and anything that may be personal or even her beliefs many not be incorporated.
The problem is what is contained in the explanatory memorandum is not contained in the actual clause. What he speaks to in the explanatory memorandum, they did not then write it in the clause. We propose that whatever they wrote in the memorandum they then write it in the Clause. When we are now going to be referring to an Act when it passes, we do not refer to the explanatory memorandum, we refer to the provisions of the section which are borne out of a particular clause.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Chairman. I hear the Hon. Member. Even though it is a constitutional right, you must demonstrate an interest. You cannot just wake up and say I need this information. There should be some interest in that particular information and as a result what he wants, I respectfully reject.
I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. We are not
dealing with an issue of whether we want it or not. It is actually the
Minister’s intention in his explanatory memorandum. It is not us who put it there, it is the Minister and it is very good. For example Mr. Chairman, in other jurisdictions - Sweden for example, the information officer does not ask you why you want that information, neither if he believes that you are going to abuse it or you are not going to abuse it, his or her beliefs must not be a ground for denying information. This is what exactly the Hon. Minister put in explanatory memorandum and we are simply saying extract what you put there and express it in the relevant clause. We are not differing with you Hon. Minister with all due respect.
HON. K. PARADZA: It is in line with the Constitution, very clear. Section 62 says, every Zimbabwean citizen or permanent resident, including juristic persons and the Zimbabwean media has the right of access to any information held by the State or by any institution or agency of Government at every level in so far as that information required is in the interest of the public. There is no need for some officer somewhere to ask me why I need that information. Yes, it is my right.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister was fully aware in the explanatory memorandum and what he intended to achieve. You should only take what is in the explanatory memorandum and put the same in the clause so that it will not be difficult to give out the information because when people are looking for it, it is because they want to use it rightfully. There are laws that protect whatever information you get. So the Minister should not trouble himself because we will be following what other countries are doing and what makes our country work is because of information dissemination.
*HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I want to
assist on this issue. In order for us not to waste time looking at explanatory remarks that come after the Bill has been drafted, let us not refer to the explanatory notes. What is important is what is in the actual Bill. If an explanatory note does not explain clearly what is in the Bill - it can be corrected or removed.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank Hon. Paradza, Hon. Madzimure and I want to thank Hon. Mataranyika for clearly putting it in context. I know where Hon. Chikwinya is coming from but just to put the issue in its correct perspective, Hon. Paradza read the section and ended before completing it. Section 62 of the Constitution on access to information says, every Zimbabwean citizen or permanent resident, including juristic persons and the Zimbabwean media has the right of access to any information held by the State or by any institution or agency of Government at every level in so far as the information is required, in the interest of public accountability.
When we wrote the explanatory memorandum, and I said it should not be quizzed, I violated the Constitution proviso which says, ‘in so far as the information is required in the interest of public accountability, you need to justify’. So you cannot say I want this information, I do not want to be asked any question. That is not the import of the
Constitution. The way this section is couched is perfectly correct and there is no harm in saying I want this because of one, two, three, four. Should you be denied and feel that the entity did not exercise its right correctly then there are administrative and court processes that can be done to ensure that your rights are assessed as per the constitutional provision.
*HON. MADZIMURE: I saw the Minister smiling when Hon. Mataranyika stood up. From the time you start quizzing a person, for example from Chiredzi when they want information and you ask him who he is, from the word go he will be puzzled on what it means and also the person who will be asking will be asked how he is in a position to ask questions and also the judgement of saying, is this person worth of the information. Already, we are violating the Constitution for the person to have access to information. Mr. Chairman, I think the Minister is troubling himself that a person should approach the court for a thing which is clear because if this information belongs to the Government and people are supposed to have that information, they should just be given that information on request instead of approaching the courts so that they get information because the officer can also use his or her own discretion whether to give out the information. We are creating a problem; people will not get the information. We are locking the information.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The Hon.
Member tried to explain what is not there. The Constitution is saying you have the right to get information when there are interests that you have.
There are two categories – if you want to assert your rights or in the public interest. We do not expect you to go to a hospital and demand for Hon. Paradza’s medical records and then you are given the records without any questions being asked.
That is the reason why the Constitution says, is it in the public interest that you are requesting for his medical records, do you want to assert your rights that you are requesting for that information? It is very clear we cannot have an open ended system, otherwise any person can go to Masango and say I want to know Hon. Sikhala’s marital status; how many children does he have, how many cattle does he own and then go on to publish that information. Is it in the public interest? Why do you want it? Then they say I have this information but I cannot give you.
We do not want to open a Pandora box. The Constitution is very clear. You are the ones who put the Constitution there to also safeguard people from abuse. So I think this cause as it is, is very good. Let us support it and I am sure you will appreciate where I am coming from. I thank you.
Clause 8 put and agreed to.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
On Clause 10:
HON. CHIKWINYA: We have a proposed amendment on (b) of
Clause 10 where it says, ‘where the period has been extended in accordance with section 9 within the extended period, the information officer shall be deemed to have refused the request’.
So it speaks to an officer who has not replied within the specified period and we propose the deletion of that clause on page 9 in line 8 and the insertion of the following sub-clause:-
‘(2) When an officer is deemed to have refused a request for access to information, an applicant may lodge an appeal to the Commission in terms of section 35.’
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, I just want it to be captured correctly by the Hansard. We are not deleting anything, it is insertion of this at the end and I concur.
Amendment to Clause 10 put and agreed to.
Clause 10, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 11and 12 put and agreed to.
On Clause 13:
HON. CHIKWINYA: We propose that Clause 13 of the Bill is amended on page 10 in line 6 by the insertion of after ‘images’ of ‘, including braille and sign language’.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, I concur, I agree.
Amendment to Clause 13 put and agreed to.
Clause 13, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 14 to 16 put and agreed to.
On Clause 17:
*HON. MADZIMURE: Minister, on cost, our Constitution recognises the 16 languages. So already you would have discriminated someone on cost because if I need information on any vernacular language one has to incur the cost. We have 16 languages. If you say those who are fluent in English are the only ones who will get information, as it is we would have discriminated everyone. So I think the cost should lie with the Government. If I need a document in any vernacular language, it is the Government that meets the cost not for a person who is looking for information, because they are not fluent in English then they have to pay.
* THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
you Hon. Chair. The Act did not say that you should get your information in English only but it is saying the language in which the information is. I do not know whether you got it right. It is not saying English – in other words it is the form in which it is published and you get it in that language.
The danger now in saying let us give the burden to the institution to be translating into all the languages, we are imposing a cost to the organisation. We are saying if you walk into the Registrar General’s Office, if the language that is used in keeping the document is English, you get a copy in English. If you want it in any other language, then you bear the cost of translating. We do not want to overburden institutions by costs that are not related to their operations. That is the reason why we want to keep it like that but we acknowledge that all the languages are equal but we are saying the organisation is keeping its records in this format. You get it in that format. Should you want a translated version, then you are the one who will now carry the cost.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The official language that is used on our documents here in Zimbabwe is English and that is known. The reason why we recognise 16 languages is because we want our people to get access to all the information in those 16 languages. The burden of translating should lie with the State because if you give information to a person in a form that they do not understand, you would not have given that person information.
Hon. S. Banda having spoken in Chewa.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Mr. Chair. My plea is that some of us do not understand when everything is put in English throughout – [Laughter.] -
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, if the Hon. Member rose for the purpose of outsiders to understand and not me to respond then he can proceed.
*HON. S. BANDA: I was saying that if we want these papers, we always get them in English. If there can be a time when we will get them in our Chewa language so that I will read and understand – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] –
HON. MATARANYIKA: I want to concur with Hon. Madzimure. The fact that documents are stored or kept in English language is just for convenience but if you have someone who comes from the rural areas and does not understand English, it is only proper and fair that the State should incur the cost of translating the English language to whatever language is convenient at the particular moment.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to refer back to the section that confers the rights of access to information in the Constitution. It gives two specific instances in the public interest for public accountability or for asserting a right. The information may not necessarily be in the hands of the State always. You may need information to assert your right from Avenues Clinic for instance. We legislate to say that we are transferring a burden of translating from the individual who is requesting the information to Avenues Clinic. It is not proper.
I am the one who wants to assert my right, I must bear the costs of the translated version. Moreso, it has an added advantage where you have several translations. There is always the text to refer to if there is a dispute. It is in the interest of even that person who is requesting that information to have it in the original language and then you have a translation because you can then refer back. If you now say you want me as an entity to translate it for you and that is the translation that you now go with, you lose some of the information that you need to assert your rights. Let us bear in mind that it is not all the information we require for public accountability. That will be in the hands of the State.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Why do we not say that all the
information that is in the hands of the State, whenever it is translated the cost should be borne by the State. I say so because most of the information that people look for comes from the state.
Secondly, if we talk about costs it means that access to information is no longer there because here we are referring to a grandfather who is from the rural areas and it is information to do with him. The reason why he does not have money is because he wants to understand what is in those papers and he has no other means of getting money. Our people do not have money. I think if we give that responsibility to the State, then the State should have translators on stand-by. For example, the
Constitution should have been translated already in those languages.
Access to information that you are referring to should be there, if we put a component of money then we would have missed it. The Government should lead so that other private players follow because they are using resources that come from us the people. So, people should get that information.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Chair. I think the clause even
on itself is fine because I would agree with the Hon. Minister to say, if me as a person went to look for information, I then say that the
Government should now translate for me and that now puts into question - What if the Government gives wrong information or incorrectly translated information? You will say that Government is the one that gave me wrong information.
I think that if you go and look for information yourself then the cost of going to get the translation should be upon you because you are the one who went to look for that information. I think the clause is fine even on itself. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair, I want to thank Hon. Members for their debate and also thank Hon. Tsvangirai – that is exactly why I said that when you have the original text, you know that you have authentic information but when you give the burden of translating on me and you have come to me to request information that you need to assert your right; we want to legislate in a manner that will ensure that you get the correct information that will assist you in whatever you want to do be it public accountability or asserting your rights. I think that we can now proceed Hon. Chair. I thank you.
Clause 16 put and agreed to.
On Clause 17;
HON. CHIKWINYA: The proposed amendment is for the
deletion of the word ‘access’. This is purely to achieve consistency wherever we are going to be using the term ‘fees’, because you will find that in the original texts there are areas where we only refer to ‘fees’ and in other areas we refer to ‘access fees’. So for us to achieve uniformity, just as a cleaning up process, we delete the word ‘access’ and simply refer to ‘fees’ throughout the clause.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chikwinya has suddenly become a good drafter, I agree with him.
Amendment to Clause 17 put and agreed to.
Clause 17, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 18 to 30 put and agreed to.
On Clause 31;
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Hon. Chair. I just want to check on ‘manifestly frivolous’. Who is going to determine whether the information that I am seeking is healthy or unhealthy for me? I think there is need for a distinction of who really is the responsible officer who is going to be able to do that. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I am not sure whether the Hon. Member is very sincere in his question - who is going to determine because it is there in the Bill. I thank you.
HON. S. BANDA: With all due respect, maybe the good Minister can show me where that can be found? Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I will indulge him. It says, ‘An Information Officer - Clause 31 (1), an Information Officer of an entity may refuse a request for access to information’. I thank you Hon. Chair.
Clause 31 put and agreed to.
Clauses 32 to 41 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
HON. K. PARADZA: I just want to say that I am so happy for this 9th Parliament that we have all agreed to make sure that we tear down AIPPA which was a bad law and that Bill is going to repeal this law. So, we are very happy. I am vindicated because in 2003, I stood up here and I said this was a bad law and I was haunted out of the party because of that. I just want to put it on record that I am so happy because I am vindicated. Thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On behalf of the Committee Hon. Chair, I
want to thank the Ministy of Information and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who firstly - I believe we need to follow this precedence. At the point of drafting these laws, that is the laws which are repealing AIPPA, from the point of drafting Parliament was included. We went to Nyanga with the drafters and we had our input. At consultation stage and even at the point of cleaning up the areas where we did not find each other, we had a round table meeting where the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Information and
Parliament were involved. I believe that such a process will remove
some of the political undertones which we may have in terms of suspicion. So I hope that precedence can actually be sustained. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I just rose to thank the Hon. Members for the robust debate. I enjoyed it and I want to concur. I think the procedure that we used when we debated this Bill, we have had long sessions where we shared ideas and that is the reason why you saw we had a lot of concurrence on a lot of issues pertaining to this Bill. It is my wish Hon. Chair, that this culture is continued when we are producing more Bills in future. I thank you.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill is referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I just have one
item, the Minister of Information, Communication Technology and Courier Services has a Ministerial Statement that was requested by this august House. It is not very long and with your indulgence if he can be allowed to present the statement.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
MEASURES TO CURB HIGH COST OF DATA BUNDLES AND
ALLEGED DATA DISAPPEARANCE
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY AND COURIER SERVICES (HON. MUSWERE):
Thank you Madam Speaker. The Ministerial Statement is with regards to the measures to curb the cost of Data Bundles in Zimbabwe and the alleged data disappearance. To begin with, all tariffs in Zimbabwe both wholesale and retail are regulated. In regulating tariffs, Potraz uses the cost based principle, which is the most objective criteria for determining tariffs. Accordingly, as a way of curbing unjustified high data tariffs, Potraz has resorted to the Telecommunications Price Index (TPI) to track cost movements in the provision of telecommunication services since January 2019. Prior to movements in the provision of telecommunication services since January 2019, prior to that, Potraz was using the results of the Long Run Incremental costing (LRIC) methodology to set thresholds for telecommunication services, including
data tariffs.
The use of the TPI was necessitated by the need to facilitate quick decision making in cost-based principle for decisions on tariff adjustments. This is in view of the current challenging business environment characterised by foreign currency shortages and electricity, which has forced operators to resort to alternative means of energy such as diesel powered generators and solar energy.
The computation of the TPI is done in consultation with all operators who provide the necessary information required to compute the TPI. Major cost items included in the computation of the TPI include:
- Network repair and maintenance costs
- Depreciation
- Salaries and staff costs
- Utilities and administration costs
- Rental costs
- Fuel costs
- Marketing and advertising
- Research and Development
- Financing costs
- Capital expenditure costs and
- Foreign Exchange losses
Notwithstanding the fact that operators have been advocating for the pegging of telecommunication tariffs to the exchange rate movements, the Regulator has taken a principles stance not to do so but to track the actual cost movements by computing the TPI, taking into account all the costs of service provision, including those that require foreign currency, which are then adjusted using the inter-bank market exchange rate. This is in the interest of balancing operator viability with service affordability for consumers.
The Ministry has developed the Digital Infrastructure Master plan whose focus is in infrastructure sharing amongst the Mobile Network Operators (MNOs). It should however be noted that data tariffs in Zimbabwe are the lowest in the region. The issue that needs to be addressed more is that of affordability. The regional tariff comparison for data tariffs within the SADC region and the tariffs per services are (in US$ cents), for example in Botswana, Mascom its 11.2 voice per minute, SMS 1.9 and mobile data per MP is 9.3. BTC voice per minute is 12.3, SMS is 2.8 and mobile data per MB is 9.3. Kingdom of Eswathini, Eswathini Mobile voice per minute is 7.7, SMS is 1.8, and mobile data per MB is 5.6. MTN voice per minute is 8.4, SMS is 2.1 and mobile data per MB is 5.6.
Lesotho Vodacom voice per minute is 11.6, SMS is 5.4 and mobile data per MB is 8.8. Econet Lesotho voice per minute is 12.6, SMS is 5.3 and mobile data per MB is 8.8. Malawi Airtel voice per minute is 9.6,
SMS is 2.0 and mobile date per MB is 4.2. TNM voice per Minute is
11.0, SMS is 2.9 and mobile data per MB is 4.4. Mozambique Vocacome voice per minute is 9.8, SMS is 3.2 and mobile data per MB is 6.5. Namibia MTC voice per minute is 10.5, SMS is 2.8 and mobile data per MB is 6.3. TN Mobile voice per minute is 10.2, SMS is 2.5 and mobile Date per MB is 6.3. South Africa MTN voice per minute is 18.2,
SMS is 5.6 and mobile data per MB is 1.1. Vodacom voice per minute is
18.3, SMS is 5.6 and mobile data per MB is 1.1. Zambia that is MTN,
10.5 voice per minute, SMS 1.8 and mobile data per MB 8.4 and for Zimbabwe, we just picked the sample Econet Wireless. Voice per minute is 5 and for SMS 1.5 and mobile data it is 1.1 The regional average, that is 11for voice per minute. For an SMS, that is 3 and for mobile data, that is 6.
For the alleged data disappearance, we have received numerous complaints from consumers on alleged data disappearance of bundles. In the occurrence of genuine cases on billing anomalies which are rare, the regulator has intervened and resolved the cases to the satisfaction of all parties concerned.
However, we have noted that in most cases consumers are not aware that some of the applications activated on their gadgets utilise sizeable amounts of data in the background. Additionally, some gadgets automatically update several applications in the background, oblivious to consumers, resulting in data depletion and bill shocks as airtime can be completely wiped out.
The other case in point to data disappearance occurs where/when consumers staying in or passing through border areas such as Victoria Falls, Plumtree, Beitbridge and Maitengwe, experience inadvertent roaming where they get hooked onto the network from a neighbouring country. This may result in increased data consumption if the consumer has activated data roaming.
On the issue of default out of bundle browsing, Econet Wireless and Netone offer the opt in/out option for automatic out of bundle browsing, hence, there is no default out-of bundle browsing without consent. Telecel is yet to offer this facility, however, it has a notification mechanism that advises subscribers on depletion/exhaustion of data bundles and alerts them to buy new bundles or use out of bundle data. We encourage consumers to report when they suspect billing anomalies for investigation.
In cases where data is depleted due to inaccurate billing, consumers are encouraged to contact their service providers immediately for redress and also to alert them of possible technical problems within their systems. POTRAZ intervenes in cases where service providers fail to address complaints received from consumers by facilitating redress. Accordingly, POTRAZ has also developed an educational brochure on data bundles which educates consumers on the various aspects of data including data bundle types and their terms and conditions as well as measures they should take to ensure that their data is used for the intended purpose and with their knowledge. This initiative is now part of our consumer education and awareness campaigns on bundles as attached.
On data expiry and data roll over, consumers have the right to choose any category of data bundles but the bundles cannot last forever and expire within the stipulated time frames as per the terms and conditions. Some consumers are failing to deplete their data bundles and they feel short-changed as their bundles are not entirely utilised.
Accordingly, POTRAZ issued Regulatory Notice Number 2 of 2019 on data rollover and data transfer in which operators were ordered to put in place mechanisms that ensure users can rollover unused data and can transfer the data to other users on the same network. Internet access providers have implemented the regulatory notice, whilst mobile network operators have asked for more time to invest in the system before implementation. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Chair and thank you
Hon. Minister for that short but eloquent presentation which answers the issues that were raised by the original mover of that motion. Hon. Speaker, my question is with regards to this facility and I hope I can explain it properly. I buy data bundles today on an option that says; daily bundles, because the service providers now have daily, weekly and monthly data packages. I buy data on a daily package and then, because of unavailability of electricity at times, the network is not there and the time lapses for that particular day. In our respective constituencies we are experiencing electricity shortage which affects the boosters’ power. Agreeably, the network providers have said one of their major costs is fuel and it is unavailable.
The network is not there but I would have bought data in the morning and I spend 9 hours without accessing my data. How does the network provider intend to compensate for my lost time, because it is not my problem, neither is it the problem of the network provider. My bundles expire after 24 hours; that is my point of clarification.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is with regards to the data bundles running out. I think , maybe, in other countries we have seen; for example Samsung in South Korea and Apple in the United States where it is not very difficult for a company to tell you that data is running out because of this or that. However, behind the scenes these are companies which have to make their money at the end of the day. I would not put it past Econet for example, to lie to the
Government and say; ‘we are not throttling your data.’ I believe that, that maybe the reason why data maybe running out fast. It may be an issue of over-throttling of data.
My question is: I think one of the problems that happens and was spoken about yesterday is that we are having lack of competition in the country Madam Speaker. For example, if we only have Econet and
Netone which are providing cell service and Econet also now owning Zol, you put too much burden on one company. What if one day Econet is cyber-hacked? So I think may be the space for competition within the cellular data industry also needs to be opened to provide competition in terms of data. Those are my questions to the Hon. Minister. Thank you
Hon. Speaker.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I just
have two points of clarification. The first one, I did not hear quite correctly, the one from Malawi, the megabytes, if the Minister can repeat that, then I can come up with my follow-up question because I was recently there, and I want to check if the figures that he has and what I have are the same. However, I believe that what I have might not be the same.
The second issue Hon. Speaker is; if you go on the internet, you will read that Africa has got the highest price for one gigabyte of mobile data. If you read further, it says, Equatorial Guinea, Zimbabwe and Swaziland are the three most expensive countries when it comes to gigabyte data. I therefore challenge 100% the figures that are being tabled here in Parliament and still insist that Zimbabwe has one of the highest – actually in the Southern Region, Zimbabwe has the highest, most expensive data.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. May I thank the
Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement. I seek clarification from the Minister. I am aware that universities in Zimbabwe are paying on average, 200 000 worth US$ for internet connectivity and I think that is very high Hon. Minister. What is the Ministry doing to reduce the bandwidth in Zimbabwe?
The other issue concerns internet connectivity in the rural areas - some of us represent rural constituencies. Grade 7 students are supposed to apply online and the internet connectivity is very low and is not even there in Gokwe-Chireya which I represent. So what efforts are being done by the Ministry to ensure that there is adequate coverage in terms of internet connectivity in Zimbabwe as a whole?
HON. D. TSHUMA: I would like to seek clarification on the issue of data bundles. I realise that on the presentation by the Minister, he indicated that on the roll over issue they have approached POTRAZ as a Ministry to relay the information to the service providers so that this cumbersome issue is looked into. I would like to find out if there is any form of timeframe that has been given to POTRAZ so that the populace gains from this exercise?
HON. KARENYI: I wanted to make a follow up to say Hon.
Minister, have you taken into consideration the issue of the data bundles? He is saying as Zimbabwe we have got the lowest charges in terms of our internet or data bundles, but I was trying to say I think because of our economy Madam Speaker, I was trying to calculate that a day I may use roughly RTGS$40-50. If I calculate it for 30 days, I think it is going to about RTGS$1 500, which is someone’s salary at the moment. I strongly feel that we cannot compare with other countries at the moment because their economies are sound and their GDPs are different from our economy.
I think they must reconsider also taking what is happening in our current situation because a domestic worker, student, teacher or anyone who is earning below RTGS$4 000 cannot afford data bundles or to get information freely. In other words, those who have got money are those who are now going for Internet and the like. I was saying to myself Minister, I have a daughter who is in Form Six. She is getting all the books on the Internet and wants to download the novels and everything.
If you calculate the amount of money we send to her for downloading of these books and others, truly Madam Speaker it is unbearable. I strongly feel that he must reconsider. He cannot compare Zimbabwe and other countries because other countries have sound economies.
HON. T. ZHOU: The issue regarding data bundles is a sore issue.
This is an issue which affects all of us because everyone now surfs the Internet. The Internet has no specific age group. Everyone goes on social media. So you discover that the cheapest is $7 and you are given 40 megabytes by Econet after purchasing a $7 bundle. As I stand here, when I checked I discovered that the cheapest is $7 and the highest is
$65 worth of 1 200 megabytes. The lowest is $7 by 30 which is around $210, and that is a lot of money. As women, we also want to use the social media. Inasmuch as Zimbabwe is considered the lowest ...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please stick to one language.
HON. T. ZHOU: Let me say that the data bundles are written in
English, so I was trying to express myself.
What I am trying to say is that data is expensive and this is tough for us after paying that amount and as a woman it affects me because when I surf the Internet and then do my household chores, I discover that my bundles will have expired. As women, we also desire to use data bundles whilst we are doing our household chores.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Madam Speaker, my question is to do
with the current three service providers. If I go to Johannesburg today, within five minutes I will be roaming in Johannesburg. Why is it that in Zimbabwe we have no local roaming? What it means is that if I go in an area where there is Telecel, you see many Hon. Members moving around with three cellphones because you cannot roam within
Zimbabwe but I can roam in South Africa, Europe or Asia. Why is it that there is no local roaming? That alone tells you that there is a cartel that does not want to have local roaming.
Secondly, what people must understand about frequencies is because it is a national resource. The frequency each service provider is using is coming from Zimbabwe’s commonwealth so there must be no monopoly to say I do not want because this one did not build up infrastructure. Some of the infrastructure is put so close to houses of people. One way or the other some people say in the long term there will be some problems associated with having those base stations near houses. All the Zimbabweans are requesting is, if I go into one area I must be able to roam locally. I do not now need three handsets. I only require one handset. Thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Madam Speaker. By way of clarity, I wish to invite the Minister to check his statistics again. In the SADC region, we are one of the most expensive countries together with Swaziland. I would like the Minister to verify that but amongst other things, I want to tease out the following Madam Speaker.
This is a multi-billion industry and I keep wondering every time I buy data and it disappears from gadgets if at all as a Government or our Government as a regulator really knows how to regulate this sector. Some of the questions I want to tease out the Minister are on whether we are getting legitimate revenue or taxation from these Internet service providers. Let me give you an example Minister. When data disappears and all of us here lose at least $2 or 3 bond from our phones. The same goes for doctors out there and other people that can afford to buy data, usually we ignore but multiply $3 by roughly 8 million people, that is $24 million in a day. This I think also amounts to retrogressive taxation on poor people like me. Remember Hon. Minister, this is prepaid, unlike someone that first uses data and then pays for it later. I pay for the data before I even use it.
Another example that I have tested myself Madam Speaker, which I would like you to do, buy 40 megabytes of data today, switch off your phone, switch it on tomorrow and try to download a file that is 30 or 35 megabytes, you will not be able to download that, “inongopera.” You wonder what happened to the balance. So my invitation to the Minister is, please protect the poor out there because data is a human right. All we are asking for Minister, is that you ensure positive consumer welfare outcomes and we are part of the consumers
There are regulatory issues Madam Speaker that I want to tease out. There is 100% failure rate from the regulator, Potraz. Why? Potraz goes to bed with Econet. Econet is the single biggest cartel in Zimbabwe in terms of internet service provision. It is a cartel and we have warned our Government that cartels are taking over the economy. This is one example of a cartel; a black face but a white monopoly behind that black face. Is the Minister aware of the existence of patronage relations between Potraz and Econet? The other way of lowering data costs is to introduce competition. There is no competition Madam Speaker. What is happening Hon. Minister at NetOne, we are always firing Chief Executive Officers.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask your question Hon.
Ndebele. Do not debate.
HON. NDEBELE: My question now, relating to the same internet - [HON. MAYIHLOME: Inaudible interjection.] – Do not be cheeky. You are no longer in the army – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members!
– [HON. MEMBERS: Ngaagare pasi!] - Hon. Members, order!
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the
Minister what he is doing about the dominance of Econet – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! You
may go ahead Hon. Ndebele.
HON. NDEBELE: I would want to find out what the Minister is doing about the dominance of Econet. Firstly, they are in the business of wholesaling data because they provide the backbone of bringing in internet into the country. Secondly, they are also involved in selling data to the end user. That on its own is dominant. Econet owns ZOL and Liquid Telecoms, so when we say Government is funding NetOne and when we say the same Government is also funding Telecel, what we are simply saying is, Potraz is funding these entities but where is Potraz getting that money from? It is money coming from Econet, but Econet is paying Potraz so that Potraz pays all these other entities to go to sleep and that they outcompete them.
Madam Speaker, there are other things that I want to tease out the Minister. What is the business model of NetOne for instance? They seem to be 75% parastatal and 15% commercial. So if we introduce real competition, it is only real competition that will assist to bring down data prices. At the moment, Potraz is beholden to Econet because Econet actually funds Potraz through their USS Fund. They pay them millions, 5% in a year. Those are the things that I thought I would check with the Minister. Thank you.
HON. MUSWERE: Thank you Madam Speaker. With regards to
the data roll over, I am sure I explained that Potraz has issued Notice Number 2 of 2019 for data roll over and transfer of data. The internet access providers have activated Notice Number 2 of 2019 and the mobile network operators which are Telecel, Econet and NetOne. They have asked for some more time to activate their system because it is a technical issue. Before the end of the fourth quarter, they have activated their technical systems. In line with Vision 2030, Zimbabwe is open for business and we need more investment in the telecoms sector. Potraz is authorised to licence any new players in the sector.
The other issue about data disappearance, I think I explained Madam Speaker that it is about gadget management. MMOs can also try to assist most of the consumers who are having challenges managing the out of data bundle and browsing within the data bundle.
With regards to infrastructure sharing, Government has developed the digital infrastructure master plan which seeks to share infrastructure within the country. What actually happens is that with the digital infrastructure plan, Government encourages Telecel, NetOne and Econet to share their infrastructure. Mainly, the most expensive part of the infrastructure is the passive infrastructure. So whenever POTRAZ constructs a passive infrastructure then they can be able to install 3 active infrastructure gadgets from the three MNOs. With regards to the investment in NetOne, Government will soon be rolling out the NetOne
MBB phase 3. With regards to the vision of the ministry we want ubiquitous connectivity across the country. The major explicit objective is to ensure that there is business viability and consumer protection. With regards to the costing method which was asked by Hon. Karenyi, we are using the TPI methodology which actually tracks the cost of each and every aspect of the expenditure.
With regards to the gadgets, I have addressed this one and it was just a repetition. Number portability we are working on it, it is a Government policy. For the revenue monitoring, I am sure that was asked by Hon. Ndebele, we have awarded a telecommunication monitoring company to develop what we call The Telecommunication Traffic Monitoring System and Revenue Assuring System (TTMS) which will track the costs. For the spectrum, the interest of the public Madam Speaker superceded private interest. For the issue with regards to the CEO which was asked by Hon. Ndebele, no one has been fired.
This particular matter is before the courts but no one has been fired.
With regards to POTRAZ, it is a professional institution governed by best practice. With regards to decision making, the consultative process is multi-stakeholder. With inter operability of MNOs and MFS, it is a development which is underway Madam Speaker. I thank you.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Given the high
data cost for all communities, because data is now used by all levels of society, would not the Minister with his service providers consider free wifi spaces for schools colleges and public places like libraries throughout the country. This is because students or pupils from primary schools are being requested to access books using data – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not asking you I am asking the Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Can we have free wifi spaces, in public
places, libraries, even buses or trains as part of their social contribution responsibilities.
HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I need
clarification from the Hon. Minister when he gave comparisons of charges in the SADC region. All I wanted to enquire from him was there any consideration taken on the per capita income of the population in which these charges are burdened, so to speak to the population. If you just compare without such variables, South Africa – the population there could be getting more money per capita in terms of salaries and stuff like that. So I wanted to hear from the Minister if that was taken into consideration.
My second point is that we were once promised that the rollover of data was going to be effected. The players had promised that before end of last year they would affect data roll over so much so that if your 24 hours lapsed, your data would be rolled over to the next day, provided it was not used. How far has that gone? My last point of clarification is how far has the Minister gone on enforcing infrastructure sharing between these players, because if infrastructure sharing is enforced Madam Speaker, we might have lowering of data charges - because you will have the three network providers having separate base stations. If they share infrastructure, it is our view that data charges will definitely come down.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Let
me also thank the Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement on data tariffs. I would want to agree with the previous speakers on the issue of data being expensive in this country. Hon. Speaker, let me say the few who are affording the data, I personally have a concern on the regulation particularly on social media. Recently, we have had a statement that the soldiers, the army is going to be surveying our social media platforms.
Madam Speaker, this is a key issue, this is a very important issue –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members – [HON. MAMOMBE: Tanga wanotenga mazino wozouya kunouku, wakundinyanyira.] –
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker the Hon. Member who
is seated over there and looking at you is abusing Hon. Mamombe. The Hon. Member is old with his age to say that Hon. Mamombe loves him is unparliamentary. So, I would like to ask that Hon. Nyabani should withdraw his words. This is not a House for love affairs – [HON.
KARENYI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Karenyi and Hon.
Matangira order. Hon. Matangira I will order you out of the House. I have heard what happened – [HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order!]- Hon. Matangira, I want to give a ruling and you are standing up, I will chase you out of the House. I heard what happened, Hon. Mamombe you are the one who provoked Hon. Nyabani; you said that he does not have teeth. Can you withdraw that? Then Hon. Nyabani should also withdraw his words that he said in response.
*HON. MADAMOMBE: Thank you for your ruling Hon.
Speaker. However, I am not a mad woman who just says things but because I respect you Hon. Speaker, I am going to swallow my words. I
withdraw – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Madzimure, I will send you out if you continue like that. Hon. Nyabani, can you stand up and withdraw your words that you asked Hon.
Mamombe whether she loves you.
*HON. NYABANI: When I said…
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not ask you to debate but I said withdraw your statement.
*HON. NYABANI: I withdraw.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members!
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much for your protection, I really appreciate that. I was in the middle of making my submission to the Hon. Minister in terms of the unformed forces with their role of monitoring our social media platforms.
This was recently announced that the uniformed forces are going to be monitoring our social media. Let me submit this to this august
House; it is not the duty of the military to be monitoring, we understand, because of cyber bullying and so forth, there is need to monitor our social platforms. However, is the military the right people to be monitoring our social media platforms?
Madam Speaker, this is very pertinent in case the other Hon. Members do not understand; I will be using my hard earned money to be buying data then on top of that I have the military monitoring my social media platforms. I need the Hon. Minister to respond to that, can the Government find a civilian group of people to be doing that monitoring not the military. We are not a military State, this should stop. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I did not hear the Hon. Minister responding to the issue of bandwidth. The value of bandwidth used by universities; we have visited universities and noticed that University of Zimbabwe is paying 200 000 USD per month worth of bandwidth which is very expensive. So, I was expecting the Minister to respond to that but he did not.
HON. TSUNGA: having listened to my colleagues, I thought there was one missing element or link and it relates to what Government through POTRAZ, is getting from the tariffs because we may take the service providers that is Econet, Netone and so forth to the slaughter and forget that Government also is an accomplice in terms of what component it gets from the tariffs that we pay. So, if Government can also look at that component and say to what extent can they reduce it so that the overall picture is that of reduced tariffs because Government would have reduced what it takes from the tariffs. I thank you.
HON. MUSANHI: There is interconnectivity between all the networks in the country in terms of calling and messaging. You can be able to phone Telecel using an Econet line and visa a vis but when it comes to money movement, there is only one monopoly. Can the Minister explain to the House why we only have Econet as the only service provider for cash movement in the country? Why not have the same inter-connectivity like we do on calls and other mobile services. I thank you.
Hon. Ndebele having stood up.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May you take your seat Hon.
Ndebele.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
MUSWERE): Thank you Madam Speaker. With regards to free WiFi, Zimbabwe Academic and Research Network (ZARNet) has been capacitated to deal with academic research and currently, Liquid Telecoms and TelOne have been offering free WiFi, for example at the University of Zimbabwe to students.
With regards to what has been asked earlier on by Hon. Ndebele on the turnaround strategies for NetOne, we have now fixed targets to ensure that there is viability within the mobile network operator. Part of these turnaround strategies include 40% revenue share for the year 2020. We have also ensured that they are going to reduce 30% of their OPEX as a cost cutting measure. With regards to capacitation of infrastructure, we have ensured that the implementation and development of the MBB phase three project is activated. We are also working on restructuring the entity to ensure that it is not top heavy.
With regards to the pricing model, the TPI like I said, we have a multi-stakeholder, a process which is cost based. With regards to Hon. Karenyi, she had alluded to the poor performance of the economy. I think we are all cognisant of the fact that we have challenges in this economy. That is why we have the TSP and the two five year economic development plans to turnaround the fortunes of this country.
With regards to infrastructure sharing Madam Speaker, NetOne has confirmed 148 base station sites which they are going to share with Econet. With regards to what Hon. Mamombe asked, the Military is under the purview of the Ministry of Defence, I am sure they can respond to that one but with regards to cyber security, we are developing a Bill which will be debated in this august House is called the Cyber Security and Data Protection Bill.
With regards to the taxation, that is under the purview of the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. With regards to the interoperability within the mobile financial services, thus Telecash, OneMoney and EcoCash, we are developing regulations to ensure that there is interoperability within the framework of the mobile financial services. I emphasise Madam Speaker, that the explicit goal is to ensure that there is business viability and consumer protection. I thank you Madam Speaker.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. MUSWERE), the House adjourned at Twelve
Minutes past Six o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 10th March 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May I
remind Hon. Senators, once again to put your phones on silent or better still switch them off.
APOLOGY FROM MINISTER
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I would like
to welcome into the Senate this afternoon the Ministers who have been able to come and attend to the questions from Hon. Senators. I have the following Ministers:-
- Musabayana – the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs;
- Dr. Kanhutu-Nzenza – The Minister of Industry and
Commerce
- Mudyiwa – The Deputy Minister of Energy and Power
Devlopment; and
- Karoro – The Deputy Minister of Agriculture.
I have an apology from the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services who is coming but she says she is delayed. I do not have any other apology from any other Minister.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: On a point of order Mr. President. My point of order is, it has been more than six months since we saw the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. When are we going to raise the issues of finance especially in this trying time of economic hardship?
HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is a good
question we are going to pass it to the relevant authorities.
HON. DR. MAVETERA: On a point of order Mr. President. My
point of order is, a week ago, there were a lot of issues related to the current coronavirus and many questions which were directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care and we were told to keep our questions since he was going to come and give a Ministerial Statement on the issue. I think things are happening on the ground and the nation needs to know. We also have other issues which need to be addressed and which may require legal input since we are people who formulate the laws which protect our nation. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Mavetera. The point you have raised is very valid. We have been made to believe he is coming today. As I said, the Hon. Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services has arrived. We may proceed with questions to the Hon. Ministers who have availed themselves.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Mr. President, who is the leader of the
House today?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: There is no
leader of the House, you may ask your questions to those who are around.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I wanted to find out when is the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and the RBZ Governor going to resign?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Can you ask
your question again?
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: When the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and the RBZ Governor going to resign because they made assurances about issues that they have not fulfilled?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is not a
question and it is out of order.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. My request is for you to enlighten the nation on this year’s agricultural season. Do you forsee a bumper harvest or we are faced with another drought season? Thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
KARORO): I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. I want to inform the nation that as he has asked whether we are going to experience another, yes the rainfall pattern changed and we received rains rather late. This is going to affect our yield. When we eventually got rainfall there are areas that we anticipated would not get anything but because of Command Agriculture, we see things are shaping up. We may have a semi-drought but our yield for this season is rather low but we are on the safe side and this is because of the late rains. In other areas they were unable to engage in farming and in some areas were they had engaged in farming, there was too much rainfall and it caused floods which destroyed the crops. We might have some challenges but not as the Hon. Member anticipates.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: My supplementary question is on the preparations that you have Minister if you have any. Most of our farmers lost cattle during the past year. What preparations do you have for this coming year as you are accepting that there is drought?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I should
really not accept that because that is a new question but I will give you the benefit of doubt and allow the Minister to answer.
HON. KARORO: Thank you Hon. Member for that good
question, I will attend to it. Mr. President, we need to acknowledge as a country that we had a drought that led to the loss of quite a number of our livestock. We also need to take cognisance of the fact that
Government had a programme, the Command Livestock Programme and it is that programme that we hope to revitalise after this drought. We want to revitalise the programme so as to enable our farmers to restock. We understand most of our farmers especially in Buhera and Chivu have lost their cattle to drought induced diseases and poverty. So the Command Livestock Programme will be revitalised to make sure that we assist our farmers to restock.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I will refer my question to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. I am not sure if she is the right person to answer because I thought the Leader of the House was going to be in.
My colleague tried to ask who is standing in for the Leader of the House. Minister, is it true that the Government is issuing copper trade licences? If it is true, where are we getting copper because the copper that we have is in the ZESA cables only?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Yes, the
Minister is the right person to answer that question.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Let me say that the issuing of
licences for copper is not the responsibility of the Ministry of Energy and Power Development, it is Home Affairs that does the issuing of licences. When she went on with her question, she touched on the issue of ZESA cables. What I can only say on that is, as the Ministry of
Energy and Power Development, we are advocating to the Ministry of Home Affairs to relook at the issuing of licences for copper because that is affecting us in a great way, particularly when it comes to the issues of vandalism on our transformers and even our electricity lines. We are also advocating for the Ministry of Home Affairs to re-look at the Act or make consideration as regards the issuing of copper licences. Thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Through you Mr. President, I find
it a little bit disturbing. Did the Minister not discuss the issue of copper trading licences with his counterpart in Cabinet? These issues, I think she should have raised them with her counterpart and then tell us what is really happening because surely, it is disturbing, we do not have mines. How do we issue copper trading licences in our set up?
HON. MUDYIWA: Okay, the matter would have been discussed
in Cabinet but I am not in a position to say out the deliberations since something is being worked out as regards the issuing of licences for copper.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon.
Senator, may you put your question in writing so that the relevant
Minister can address it? You are raising a relevant issue.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. My question is - there are fuel service stations that are supposed to sell fuel in our local currency but there are allegations which I think are founded, that they transfer the liquid to those garages that sell the liquid in foreign currency. Within the process, people run short or they have no fuel at all from those garages that are supposed to sell in local currency. What is the Ministry doing about that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. President. I
would like to thank the Hon. Member for bringing that question once more. The issue of selling fuel in foreign currency is not what it should be at the moment. As the Ministry, our garages should sell fuel in the local currency. I have always said that there are selected garages that sell in foreign currency to guests of the State like diplomats and some
NGOs. These garages are known that they do sell in foreign currency.
However, for any other garage to sell fuel in foreign currency or divert the fuel that they are allocated to garages that sell in foreign currency, these are allegations that we are seized with and we are doing our best to try and investigate, come to the bottom of the issue and deal with it. We have ZERA which is out there to do the monitoring of such practices, so if the Hon. Member is aware of such garages, he will be welcome to give us the list so that we institute our investigations. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President. I do not
think we are residing in the same nation with the Minister. My supplementary question is how many diplomats do we have in the country who need 20 service stations in Harare only? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think you
question is supposed to be directed to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. Can you rephrase your question?
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President. I asked
this question because she is the one who mentioned the issue of diplomats and NGOs. How many NGOs and diplomats do we have in the country that need 15 to 25 service stations that they may access fuel in foreign currency while the locals do not have the fuel?
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. President. I think I have
mentioned it before that those who have information of service stations that are selling in foreign currency should bring the list forward so that we can investigate and clarify on who is allowed to sell in foreign currency or not. At the moment, I do not have those details. So, if they avail us with the list of service stations that are selling fuel in foreign currency, it will assist us a lot so that we investigate the matter and come to the bottom of it. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President. The Minister is the same person who responded that we have filling stations that we have approved to sell fuel in foreign currency. Today, we are saying she should give us a list. Mr. President, you do not understand the challenges that we are facing there. She should respect us as legislators. It is not a crime for us to seek clarification. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is
your supplementary question Hon. Senator?
*HON. CHABUKA: My supplementary question is she is the one who came here and said filling stations such as Zuva are allowed to sell in foreign currency. Why is she now asking us to submit the list when she is the one who told us?
*HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. President. I think we are speaking the same language. I did not deny that there are those selling in foreign currency but the figure of 15 or 20 is what I am disputing. I am saying if there are 15 service stations, you should submit the list to me so that we can compare with the details in our office. So if they are aware of those service stations, they should avail the information. I am disputing the figure because from what I know, they are not that many. We are assisting each other in terms of information. I do not have the figures here. So if they can assist me with information, we will get to the bottom of this matter through investigations. If I had the list I would have been able to respond positively to that question. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Culture and Rural Resettlement. What measures have you put in place as a Government on the issue of research assistance, especially for tobacco farmers in order to preserve their environment?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CULTURE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
KARORO): Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the Hon.
Member for the question. I cannot see that as a question but a suggestion. I will explain what we are doing in the Ministry. In terms of deforestation, we are encouraging Mr. President that farmers should grow tobacco but should have a plan as to where they are going to get the firewood should they start curing their tobacco. We are also encouraging them to have woodlots. From those woodlots, they can run the tobacco industry production without causing deforestation. I am sure we are all aware of the fact that from 2021, the tobacco farmers are saying they will not buy tobacco that is cured using coal. The only option is ZESA electricity and wood. What we need to ensure is that farmers embark on reforestation in order to be able to cure their tobacco.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. What measures do you have in place in order to resuscitate the music galas that were done before to celebrate our heroes by the different musicians in the country? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Chief, that question is really supposed to be directed to the Minister of
Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation because artists fall under that
Ministry. Unfortunately, we do not have the relevant Minister with us. If up to Half past Three we do not have the Minister, perhaps you would like to put that in writing so that the Minister has to come and attend to that question.
*HON SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is
directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. I want to know what the Committee on mealie-meal is doing to ensure availability of mealie-meal because up to now, we cannot access mealie-meal.
*THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
- KANHUTU-NZENZA): I want to thank the Hon. Senator for his question. The Committee on mealie-meal is there but it is facing challenges. The challenges are that maize is still in transit. It is only when this maize comes that the Committee will try to ensure that people get 10kgs roller meal at RTGS70. The challenge is that when mealiemeal is available, people start hording the mealie-meal and sell it at RTGS116 to RTGS160. We want all the consumers to get mealie-meal at RTGS70.
The Committee is there but its operations are not effective because of those who are hording mealie-meal.
*HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President. I
wanted clarification on what she is doing to ensure that maize is not sold on the black market. Corruption is with the millers. Why is it that people cannot procure the maize from Grain Marketing Board in order to avoid corruption? We are talking about the lives of the people Mr.
President.
*HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA: I thank the member for that
question and that is a very good suggestion and it requires us to sit down and consider it and see whether it is possible but I have accepted that suggestion.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to
understand from the Minister on the issue of mealie-meal coupons on how they are being distributed. We have not yet received them.
*HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA: I want to thank the Hon.
Senator for his question. We do not have coupons yet for mealie-meal; we are still making a data base for people who deserve those coupons, the most vulnerable in our society. For those who were already on Social Welfare data base, it is not a problem but for others, we have to prepare a data base.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. What is the Government policy after the expiry of the 99-year leases? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
KARORO): Thank you Mr. President and the Hon. Senator for the question. After the 99-year leases expire, the policy is that Government just like any other contractual agreements, will have to look at the track record of production history of the farm. If the farm was indeed productive, I see no reason why that 99-year lease should not be renewed.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Mr. President.
Allow me to direct my question to the Minister of Energy and Power
Development. Mr. President, water is vital for everyone and it is a right. In view of this load shedding, what measures has Government put in place to ensure that they put direct lines that cannot experience load sheding to ensure that people have access to water. In other areas, when electricity is restored and they open their taps, the water comes out dirty. I want to find out what measures Government is putting in place because it is everyone’s right to have access to clean water. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. President, I
want to thank the Hon. Member for his question. What I do not understand is; are people accessing dirty water or they are failing to access the water at all? I do not know its connection with electricity. Yes, we do not have much electricity in the nation; we are trying that such areas where water is pumped including hospitals that affect the lives of people should have dedicated lines. ZETDC is working with local authorities to ensure that such areas have dedicated lines for electricity. If there is an area without dedicated lines, I think we will find out from ZETDC as to the challenges they are facing in those areas. We are trying to have this in all areas. I think the issue of accessing dirty water now requires the local authorities to respond to that and explain why people get dirty water.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President, Hon.
Minister, the issue is not about the dirty water. It is about dedicated lines for electricity which ensures that water is pumped and is distributed to the people. So, what I am talking about is not hearsay but I am talking about what I witnessed recently that all local authorities do not have dedicated lines. The dedicated lines that they have are joined with other companies who will be paying their money in foreign currency. For those who pay in foreign currency, if they see that electricity tariffs are running out, they request that electricity be cut from those using RTGs as payment. So, the request is that put dedicated lines directly to those local authorities so that people have access to water. Some areas have gone for nine months without access to water because of lack of electricity.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. President. I think your view
point is the same as mine. If it is a dedicated line that passes through the local authority where water pumping is done and is going towards companies paying in foreign currency, I do not think it is possible that in a short space of time the infrastructure can be changed to be dedicated towards the water authority. However, if there is a dedicated line that passes through the local authority for pumping water, then it is okay.
The issue of energy infrastructure cannot be changed anyhow, so when we talk of the local authority, sometimes it is not about electricity. What I do not agree with is that those with companies will inform us not to give them electricity, and then ZETDC deprives everyone of electricity because of that. ZETDC is trying by all means to ensure that electricity is availed to those critical areas through those dedicated lines.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. Our country has got so many good schools and students are doing very well, the pass rate is very good. However, the challenge is that we are having a shortage of medical doctors. What measures has the Government put in place in order to ensure that they address the health sector challenges in light of the Coronavirus.
Students are required to have a minimum entry of 15 points for them to practice medicine. What is the Government doing to ensure that students with less than 15 points are afforded the opportunity to study medicine? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MACHINGURA): I would like to thank the
Hon. Senator for his question. It is true that our nation has been training a number of people but what is sad is that the students in the medical field were very few. Therefore, the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education has conducted a skills audit. I have moved around with the paper and I have it here. It has reflected that under natural and applied sciences, there is a 3% skill in Zimbabwe and this means there is a shortfall of 97%. When we looked at the medical and health science, we have a 5% skill; hence we have a shortfall of 95% in that area. For Engineering and Technology, we have 6, 43%; therefore we have a deficit of 93, 57%. In the legal sector we have 8% and the deficit is 92%. In agriculture, we have 12% and the deficit is 88%. However, under social sciences, we have about 120%. That is why you realised that we have decided to do some reforms.
Once we realise that there is a deficit in a certain area, we have taken measures to ensure that we cover up the gap. So it is true Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe that in the medical sciences we have a huge deficit and that anyone with below 15 points cannot be admitted in the medical field. As we are addressing the issue of our education, we are focused towards the skills that are lacking and that is where our emphasis is. However, in those areas that are fully covered our attention is a bit limited.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: What I want to understand is
that you are training 200 doctors against a deficit of 96% of skills. What measures does the Government have in order to cover the deficit because students are failing to get places in order to practice medicine? Those with 11 to 14 points are not being enrolled for medicine. How do we cover for the 95% if these students are not accepted by the universities.
*HON. MACHINGURA: I hope that all of us understand that the university that has been given the mandate to study medicine programme is the University of Zimbabwe but we have since started such programmes at NUST University as well as Midlands State University. So the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education is taking measures to increase the infrastructure to enroll some more students. We are trying to improve the facilities at Midlands State University so that they can be similar to those at the University of Zimbabwe and the same is being done at NUST because these were not initially considered before. So it is work in progress to address this. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DUBE: My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. Nzenza. What is Government policy on Community Share Ownership Schemes?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
- KANHUTU-NZENZA): We are currently looking at the Empowerment Act with a view to review it. At the moment, we are going through a consultation process and part of the national wide consultation process is also to incorporate the Community Share Ownership Trust to see if we can bring it together with the ultimate aim of empowering communities and also to ensure that the proceeds from our country should also be owned by the indigenous communities in that area.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Leader of the House, in his absence the Members of the Cabinet can answer. Is it true that you dismiss a Minister? If it is true, when are you going to dismiss Hon. Ncube?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Femai,
that is unparliamentary and uncalled for. Withdraw that.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: I am sorry Mr. President. I withdraw.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Tobacco is sold in forex, why do we have a Government policy that says farmers must access their forex converted to RTGS at bank rate yet the sale was valued in US dollars?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
KARORO): Thank you Mr. President and thank you Hon. Member. Your question was very straight forward. Unfortunately, our corebusiness at the Ministry of Agriculture is to make sure that we produce a lot of tobacco. The pricing and payments is for the Ministry of Finance.
I thank you.
+HON. SEN. PHUTI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. Since we are having challenges with passports as of now, what measures is the Government taking on passports that are expiring whilst having some blank pages?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Mr. President Sir. I
would like to think that I managed to understand the question. I thought she is asking why we cannot allow people to use their pages in their passports. Unfortunately with passports, the specifications, expectations and requirements are of international standards. They are prescribed by International Aviation Organisation (IAO) which is a UN agency and is the one that prescribes how passports should be, the number of pages and the period. As a member State, we cannot change that. Even if you have extra pages, if the timeframe that was prescribed to that passport is up, you cannot use those extra pages.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President. I will direct my question to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. M. Chombo. There are people who were affected by floods in Tsholotsho and were relocated to new places. Some of them have tents issued by the Government but are now torn and others have since gone back to the old flood prone areas because the Government has taken long to construct the houses as promised. They have also not been shown land where they can plough.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC
WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President and thank you very much Hon. Member for the question about Tsholotsho. I was in
Tsholotsho last month reviewing the relocation process that was done. For sure, we have not been able to meet the requirements on time because of shortage of resources but in the current budget we were favoured with $20 million. I assure you that we are getting something done to make sure that everybody is adequately housed.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Supplementary Mr. President Sir.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You must
rise up quickly. I would have moved forward because our time is running out.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President Sir. She did not answer the last part of my question where I said, why has the Government taken long to allocate fields for relocated people?
HON. SEN. CHOMBO: Thank you very much Mr. President. Whenever there is a relocation programme, there is some resistance for people to be relocated from their original place. In the meantime, when we identified that there was that kind of resistance, we engaged the traditional leadership to make sure that they convince the people who were affected to agree to be relocated to the right places. With that agreement that we have struck with traditional leadership, we will be able now to identify land for the affected. Thank you.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I will direct my question to the Minister of Energy. Minister, I need clarification honestly because maybe I am lost or I do not understand. It is about the two currencies used on selling fuel - the US dollar and the RTGS. May I know how many pipelines supply Zimbabwe on diesel and petrol? I am failing to understand - why is it that there is a difference in selling fuel in US dollars and RTGS. If the pipeline is one and if that fuel is delivered in Zimbabwe through one diesel pipeline and petrol pipeline, how then do you separate the pricing? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. President. I
have observed that it is the same question that was asked earlier on which has been rephrased. We have only one pipeline which brings fuel into the country. It starts from the Port of Beira to the Feruka and to our Masasa and Mabvuku Depots. From there, the fuel is transported to our service stations. So there is only one pipeline. The difference on why some service stations were permitted to sell in foreign currency was because it was observed that some organisations or people like the diplomats or guests of the State have the foreign currency and pay their employees with US$ not the Z$. That is why they were allowed to buy using the US$, otherwise everybody else should use the Z$ to buy fuel.
HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI: My question is directed to the
Minister of Agriculture. We realize that the Government through your Ministry is still issuing out inputs to communities. My question is - for which season are these inputs - this year or we are preparing for the next season?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
KARORO): Thank you Hon. Senator Chief for that question. Yes, it is true that our Ministry is still supervising the distribution of inputs from the Command Agriculture Programme. Yes, the rains came late and we need to acknowledge that. What we are saying as a Ministry is, we cannot fold our arms and say the rains have been late. We are encouraging farmers to grow small grains like nyemba, even with the remaining time some farmers can harvest something for the nation to feed on. Thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
CURBING LOSS OF HUMAN LIVES
- SEN. MATIIRIRA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House measures being taken by the Ministry to curb loss of human lives and property during the 2020 rain season; and
RESPONSE PLANS TO FLOODS IN BINGA
- SEN. SINAMPANDE asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to:
- inform the House the government’s emergency response plans
to floods which devastated Binga District this year, considering that people in the area are facing acute shortages of potable water, food and shelter; and
- explain whether such people affected by floods will be resettled in other places.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): The preparedness of the
Department of Civil Protection is a function of the following factors;
- Functional Civil Protection Structures and Co-ordination.
- Robust Early Warning Systems.
- Availability of Resources (financially and equipment).
- Good communication infrastructure.
- Functional Civil Protection System is anchored on a management and coordination architecture that was approved by Cabinet in May, 2019. The architecture makes it easier to mobilise all the Government ministries, departments and agencies as well as partners before, during and after the disasters. In case of the two districts you have mentioned, the activation of the Provincial and District Civil Protection Committees were activated as per the advice given by the Meteorological Services Department.
The two districts of Hwange and Binga have in place trained District Civil Protection Committees. The Committees managed to undertake localised disaster risk assessments and the requisite planning for emergencies inclusive of floods.
Furthermore, community based risk management training has been undertaken in the affected wards of Nsungwale in the case of the Binga floods. In the same vein, all development partners are members of the several platforms, except the Cabinet Committee and Cabinet itself.
- Robust Early Warning Systems
As for the hydro-climatologically related hazards such as flash floods, flooding, river flooding, storms and lightning just to mention a few, the early warning information is issued by both the SADC Climate Services Centre and the Meteorological Services Department. In the case of the specific flash floods in Hwange and Binga, the Meteorological Services Department only issued an advisory indicating an average rainfall of 50 mm throughout the projected period of 7 – 12 February, 2020. Unfortunately, the models used by the Meteorological Services
Department downplayed some variables as some areas such as Kezi District and Chisengu were already receiving more than 120 mm, a development which now required a different approach altogether. Their radar system remains a source of their biggest challenge. Preparations for natural calamities which are of a climatological nature now demand us to prepare for waste given the highlighted shortcomings of our early warning system. Focus should now also be on capacitating our early warning systems in all sectors.
- Availability of Resources
Every response to any type of disaster, whether human-made or natural, requires that adequate resources in the form of finance and suitable equipment be availed. Whilst every Government Ministry is operating on a shoe string budget, Disaster Risk Management issues must be prioritised for they have the effect of derailing the economic gains the country has made. This is an area that requires a lot of attention if the recovery and resilience of this country from natural calamities is to be fully addressed. In some instances, the disasters may require Government to relocate and construct houses for the affected communities such as what happened in Tsholotsho. To date, thousands of dollars have been disbursed to those areas affected by floods.
- c) Reliable Communication Infrastructure
The advent of better communication technology has improved the department’s capacity in accessing real-time data. With the establishment of a Disaster Management Centre and other ancillary services such as evacuation centres, an improvement will be noticed.
As for the Nsungwale flash floods in Binga, the Government has injected thousands of dollars, notwithstanding the tremendous support received from development partners, the private sector, churches and individuals. Current efforts towards recovery (Binga).
ITEM | MEASURE/ACTION TAKEN |
Response Mobilisation | The Department presented a budget to the Ministry to assist in the recovery of the affected communities and infrastructure |
Spatial Planning | The Department of Spatial Planning Development accessed and recommended the relocation site which is near the school |
to be a permanent one. | |
Shelter | Public Works Department with the assistance of the community has pitched tents using locally available resources. |
Health | Ministry of Health with the assistance of Save the Children pitched a tent being used currently as a clinic. |
Reconstruction of roads and bridges | Ministry of Transport, DDF and Binga RDC have started rehabilitating some parts of the damaged roads. |
Water and sanitation | ZINWA has sited and pegged three boreholes. An organisation called Caritas has pledged to drill an additional three boreholes. |
With this synopsis if all the above factors are put in place, a dynamic and revolutionalised Disaster Management Department will be established. This will also be done anchored on current efforts to benchmark such kind of development with training from advanced countries. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: I do not think the $1000 she is
talking about is there. I was there last week and I did not see anything.
The damage is still there.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You can
always raise a follow up question later on. Thank you for your observation.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT in terms of Standing Order Number 62.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MANICALAND PROVINCE (HON. DR. GWARADZIMBA), the
Senate adjourned at Sixteen Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 10th March, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 4th March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITOR IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: Allow me Hon. Members to recognise
the presence of Reverend Father Kembo, who is Parliamentary Liaison
Officer on behalf of the Catholic Bishops Conference. Welcome Father.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have received apologies from the following Hon. Ministers; Vice Presidents, Hon. Chiwenga and Mohadi, Hon. Muchinguri –Minister of Defence and War Veterans, Hon. Matuke,
Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. J.
Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. Shiri- Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Dr. Gumbo, Minister for State in the President’s Office, Hon. Mathema, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. S. Nyoni, Minister of Women’s Affairs, Hon. S. B. Moyo, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. Matiza, Minister of
Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Matemadanda, Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans, Hon. E. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Marapira – Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement and Hon. Chitando - Minister of Mines and Mining Development.
NON-ADVERSE REPORT FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL
COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to announce that I have received a Non-Adverse Report on the Forest Amendment Bill [H. B. 19, 2019] from the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege and my point is for the past three weeks, Hon.
Speaker, Parliamentarians and the public at large have been collecting coupons for diesel but there is no product at the service stations. We want to know, is there any arrangement so that Parliamentarians will be able to do their work as mandated by the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, that question was raised by Hon.
Sacco last week – [HON. MEMBERS: It is different.] - Order, order! Can I indulge the Hon. Member; it looks like it is something different.
HON. KASHAMBE: We are saying for the past three weeks we have been getting coupons but there is no product. Our coupons are specifically for Puma alone and there has been no fuel for the past three weeks from Puma service stations and Puma is still selling those coupons to the public even right now, but there is no product for the public at large. So we would like to know for us Parliamentarians to execute our duties better.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I still believe that the question is really an extension of what was asked last week and it has to be directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development to explain. That is one aspect. The other aspect is to see how we can rationalise the Puma coupons and perhaps engage CMED so that you can try to get your fuel just across here. Thank you.
HON. K. PARADZA: On a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You raise a point of order when there is a debate.
HON. K. PARADZA: Sorry, point of privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, order, order. We need to be procedural. You have your Deputy Chief Whip here and I had said I have got a list, so I need to follow the list first and then if you are an excess questioner I can call upon you.
HON. TUNGAMIRAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege. The tobacco marketing season is fast approaching but we have no clear road map on how farmers will be paid in terms of retention in United States dollars – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! It is a question. Ask your question.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of privilege has been said by the first Member. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you for your indulgence.
HON. K. PARADZA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. In terms of our dress code, I see do you now allow Mandela shirts in here because the way Hon. Murayi is dressed is not proper. He is sitting there. Can you stand up? Is that dressing? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sit down – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order! – [HON. MEMBERS: That is a colonial mind.]- Hon. Molokela order! Can we have order Chief Whip?
Hon. Molokela, this is the second time I am asking you to hold fire.
I was saying I want to interpret Article 76(5) of the Standing Orders as guided by the Deputy Chair of Committees, Hon. Mutomba. the attire for male Members shall include the following:
- A suit, - [AN HON. MEMBER: There is no tie…] - Aaaah, I am going to kick you out of the House now.
- A jacket and a tie
- Safari suit. That is all – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] – Order, order. Hon. Murai’s attire is on a knife edge. It is not like what Hon. Biti normally wears. I advised him to put on a tie because he would look elegant but he went out and took off the tie. Because it is on the knife edge, I rule that the Hon. Member should retain his tie and come back – [AN HON. MEMBER: Ko jacket?] – and a jacket of course – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. T. MLISWA: I would like to bring to the attention of this House on a disease which is called theileriosis or January disease. The matter was asked before. This disease has killed a lot of cattle. The reason why I am bringing this up is, I think we need to declare a national disaster on the number of cattle that have died. I say so because the entire national herd….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, in terms of privileges, it must relate to privileges of members. You can ask a question to the relevant Minister.
HON. T. MLISWA: The reason why I am saying this Mr.
Speaker Sir…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have ruled. Thank you.
HON. TUNGAMIRAI: My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate Change and Rural Resettlement but since he is not around, I will direct my question to the Leader of the House.
What is the Government’s policy on how it is going to re-distribute land …..
Hon. N. Ndlovu having been moving around and greeting Hon.
Members.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Member, this is the second time that you are on a greeting spree – [Laughter.] – [AN HON.
MEMBER: She is a Chief Whip.] - Oh you are a Chief Whip. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Deputy] – Alright, my apology – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Thank you Deputy Chief Whip.
HON. TUNGAMIRAI: What is the Government’s policy on how
it is going to re-distribute the land acquired from the downsizing programme? – [HON. MEMBERS: Taurisa.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you repeat your question?
HON. TUNGAMIRAI: What is the Government’s policy on how
it is going to re-distribute the land acquired from the downsizing programme?
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. In terms of Section 107, we have a situation which we are constantly talking about and there is no movement whatsoever. This is the agricultural season. The President has appointed three Ministers in charge of agriculture; one Minister and two Deputy Ministers and they are not here. Most of the questions which will be asked here relate to specific ministries. There is no way the Leader of Government business can be so intelligent to annunciate whatever is going on in these ministries. I say so because the country is facing a lot of challenges; the Minister of Energy is not here, the
Minister of Mines is never here, Hon. July Moyo who is the defacto Prime-Minister is not here yet we have got stadium issues in this country and he is responsible for that but he is not here to respond to these issues.
How honestly can we go back and make progress in this country when the very same appointed Cabinet Ministers are not here. Not only that, some of them are probably the worst bunch of Cabinet Ministers ever appointed since 1980. We always had respect of Ministers who would respect this institution. They do not respect your Chair Mr.
Speaker and it cannot continue like this and allow tax payers’ money to go to waste when we should be going back to the constituencies to tell the people what the Ministers are saying yet they are not here to respond to any of the issues when every portfolio in Government is facing challenges. This cannot continue. The Deputy Ministers and Ministers are not here. Why can they not respect this institution which is responsible for oversight? They do not account. They are busy disbursing money like Hon. July Moyo.
How do we come about with a solution that we tainted the
Zimbabwe that we have? It cannot continue – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The Hon. Deputy Minister of Lands did not tender his apology. Hon. Leader of Government Business, there is no excuse for them not to be here. You can attempt to answer.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The reason why
we are downsizing is to ensure that the majority of Zimbabweans who want agricultural land get it. The land will be given to those on the waiting list who have applied and we will also reserve some for some of the investment that we want to undertake.
HON. TUNGAMIRAI: What percentage of this land does the Ministry intend to distribute to youth since they were young when the land was taken? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Switch off your microphone. Order! When you go to statistics, you must bring that question in writing because it needs research.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Government embarked on a land audit and they were going to audit the land first. Look at who is utilising or not utilising and for what reasons and also check on multiple farm owners. It is on record that the former First Lady has more than 12 farms and this Government has done absolutely nothing when the policy on land is one man, one farm.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your supplementary Hon.
Member?
HON. T. MLISWA: The question is what have they done about the land and why are they not repossessing the farms from the former First Lady when it is supposed to be one man, one farm against the Government policy? – [HON. SIKHALA: That is not policy!] - It is a policy question! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. SIKHALA: Do not be abusive to widows! My sister here is a widow and I defended her when she lost her husband.] -
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga having stood up to respond to Hon.
Sikhala.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Misihairabwi-
Mushonga, please allow the Hon. Minister to respond. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker, I have
just been abused. I am a widow and I do not know why or how I am getting into this conversation and I think it is just abusive. He should withdraw the statement Mr. Speaker.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, if my statement that I defend widows has insulted anyone including my sister Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga. I withdraw.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question which is very important, I must admit.
Government indeed embarked on a land audit and our President is very clear that our policy is one-man, one-farm or one-woman, onefarm. I happen to be the Vice Chairman of the Lands Committee in Mashonaland West and the Chairperson is here and will testify that we are repossessing farms from multiple farm owners. I thank you.
*HON. CHIKOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my question
is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. The Hon.
Minister is not here, so I will direct my question to the Leader of the
House.
For the past months, we did not have any electricity. So I want to know what plans the Government has for the past nine months or there is nothing because the Minister of Energy and Power Development does not have electricity and is not here as well. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
I want to thank the Hon. Member for his question in connection with shortage of electricity in Zimbabwe. He wants to know what the Ministry of Energy and Power Development is doing in terms of
electricity.
Yes, our electricity supply is low and we always talk about it. A number of reasons caused that but as a Ministry of Energy and Power Development, for the country to have the little electricity that we have, it is because we are buying electricity outside the country from South Africa through Eskom, from Mozambique in Carbora Bassa and EDM – that is where we are buying our electricity from. As you are aware that the whole southern African region is affected by this shortage of electricity, at times Eskom of South Africa also faces the challenges of low electricity which also affects us as Zimbabwe.
Coupled with that, we are encouraging citizens to embark on renewable solar energy. Companies who are able to generate solar energy, some companies like Pepsi, Econet had installed solar plants at their premises – we are encouraging companies who are able to generate their own energy from solar because we have a lot of sun in Zimbabwe – that is what we are encouraging. We have a Renewable Energy Policy as Government that is going to be launched very soon and we are encouraging the use of renewable energy.
As Government, again we have ongoing projects at Hwange Thermal Power Station, that is Units 7 and 8 Extension. It is being constructed right now and we believe that the first unit will be operational next year in 2021 and the other one in 2022. We will be getting 600MW in addition to the supply that we have and on top of that, we are also encouraging independent power producers who want to construct mini-hydro power stations in all our dams. We are encouraging that all the dams that can generate hydro power should be utilised and IPPs should engage in that. There are a lot of things that we are doing. We have a big list of what we are planning to do as a Government so that we increase electricity supply. Thank you.
*HON. CHIKOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Firstly, I would like to thank the Deputy Minister for telling the truth that we do not have enough electricity in the country and we have always said that we do not have enough power in the country. Thank you Hon. Deputy Minister. The problem that I have observed is that she continues explaining plans that are going to be done. My question is that the power shortages that are currently obtaining in the country are as a result of the fact that we do not have people who have the right ideas and we do not have resources to alleviate the problem.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Member, you told your story but can you ask a proper question?
*HON. CHIKOMBO: The power shortages that you alluded to... *THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, address the Chair.
*HON. CHIKOMBO: I am saying that according to the explanation given by the Deputy Minister, is it because we do not have enough resources or we do not have the right ideas which would ensure that the country has enough power?
*HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We have enough natural resources. We are generating power, we have enough sun. We are working on generating power through renewable energy.
We are also working on renovating the Hwange Thermal Power Station.
We are expecting to get 600mw on completion at the Hwange 7 and 8 Extension project. We also have mini hydro projects taking place around the country. We encourage those who have resources, who have money to generate power for their use so that we can save energy in this country. A lot is happening in Zimbabwe. The list is endless, I cannot explain all the things that are happening. However, my point is that we are trying our best to make sure that we increase power generation. The
IPPs that I referred to, we encourage institutions like Government departments, clinics, hospitals and other entities to ensure that they have solar plants which will add to the national grid. I thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question to the Hon. Deputy Minister is, she spoke about encouraging people to invest in solar power or green energy. What is her Ministry doing to make sure that it is possible and there is ease of doing business with regards to acquiring or importing solar equipment or resources? Mr. Speaker Sir, currently there is duty on batteries, on cables and there are very high rates when you want to acquire a licence for a solar plant. How is the Ministry assisting or encouraging people, when there are such hurdles in the way? Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question on what the Ministry is doing to encourage the processing and application of licences or whatever, as regards electricity issue. As a Ministry, we are launching the renewable energy policy very soon which spells out that in as much as we can, we are encouraging people to go the renewable energy way. We have incentives in place where we are saying some of the equipment for solar energy like solar plants batteries which are made by lithium are imported duty free. Those are some of the incentives that we have. Also on the licencing issue, we have the ZERA which processes the licences. Before, the licence processing would take more than six months to process but we are reducing the period to about a month. That is what we are trying to come up with. You will see a lot of developments as regards the processing of power licences. In the duty payments, I think I mentioned about the duty that we have advocated with the Ministry of Finance that some of the equipment that we need for solar plants is brought in duty free. I cannot specify which equipment exactly but I remember the lithium batteries which are specifically meant for solar energy. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose my supplementary question to the Deputy Minister. I notice that there is price increase of 300 percent despite the fact that there is no electricity. What does it mean? How can you improve without providing service? As Government, you have effected that increment, however the nation does not have enough power, what does that mean to the nation?
*HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon.
Member asked a pertinent question regarding the increase of electricity.
You would notice that in the past year, the tariffs that were charged by ZESA were very low. In other cases, you will discover that the tariffs were so low compared to other countries in the region. ZESA had not effected any increment since 2011 until the past year (2019). There were no tariff increments because ZESA was not permitted to increase the tariffs. However, because of viability challenges, ZESA could not operate, could not pay for coal for Hwange Thermal Power Station and the company could not even pay its workers. We are importing electricity and ZESA did not have enough money to import electricity. In other words, ZESA was on its knees, so we decided to effect a tariff increment, which would ensure that operation costs are met so that all services that are provided by ZESA are given to the public.
Even after the tariff increments last year, the cost reflective tariffs were not enough to cater for the operational costs of ZESA to pay for all resources that were needed by ZESA. However, the increment that is being effected was done so that ZESA will be able to pay for electricity imparts; procure coal and to pay for all the services that it needs to provide electricity to the nation. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. You
would have noticed that the amount of interest to engage the Hon. Minister with regards to issues of energy is quite high. I therefore propose that the Hon. Minister of Energy may come to Parliament with a
Ministerial Statement explaining the holistic approach under which the Government is tackling the energy crisis, especially the issue of renewable energy. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister I hope you got the
request. You were requested to prepare a comprehensive Ministerial Statement to indicate the holistic approach to the energy crisis. So can we have that statement next week?
HON. MUDYIWA: We will do so Hon. Speaker.
HON. MADHUKU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Leader of the House in the absence of the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. I want to know the Government policy with regards to pension reviews as well as cost of living adjustments for pensioners to keep them abreast with their colleagues that are still at work.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I recall this question was asked and we have ongoing negotiations within the tripartite negotiation forum where the negotiations are happening. So, it is a question that is under discussion and the Hon. Member will be advised when the negotiations are concluded.
*HON. P. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, and in his absence to the Leader of the House. My question is, we have the Beitbridge-Chirundu road, what is Government policy in terms of rehabilitation of the road before the rains come, because each and every year we find potholes on that road and it is impassable.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That question is a specific question.
HON. GOZHO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. Minister, why is Government taking long to find a permanent solution to the fuel crisis?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVLOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The
Hon. Member asked a very pertinent question on fuel issues. The problem has gone on for some time now, appearing as if there is nothing being done. Like I said at one time, the fuel industry, we have got the Ministry of Energy which is responsible for ensuring that there is fuel in the country and that the fuel is available at the service stations for the motorists to get the fuel but we also have the Ministry of Finance as a stakeholder and a key player in the fuel industry. If you are talking about the Government, you are not asking about the Ministry per se but it is the Government that you are asking. So, I think the Ministry of
Finance will also answer – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – What we are doing is that as a Ministry we are ensuring that there is fuel in the country. I can assure you we have got plenty of fuel at our depots but some of the processes that are involved in having the fuel at the service stations are beyond the Ministry’s control. I think I cannot pre-empt what measures we are taking at the moment. This morning the Permanent Secretary was involved in several meetings- in the country there is a lot that has been going on in the fuel industry. Some underhand dealings that are going on and as a Ministry we are seized with all those matters, but unfortunately when I came to this parliamentary session, I had not met with the Permanent Secretary to discuss what has come out from those meetings today. It would be premature for me to say anything about those meetings. I think maybe by tomorrow we can have the answers after discussing with the Permanent Secretary what has come out with the Ministry, but the challenge that we are having is that as a country, we are not producing and we are not exporting to get the much needed forex to pay for the fuel. That is all I can say. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. May I suggest that Hon. Deputy Minister, when you make your Ministerial Statement next week, you include the issue of fuel supplies in consultation with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development as you have indicated. Thank you.
HON. SIKHALA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: After my ruling hazviiti. Wait for the
Ministerial Statement.
HON. NKANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, we need to hear the question properly. Hon. Member can you repeat your question.
HON. NKANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. What is the Government policy regarding the repair and rehabilitation of our major roads? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, that question was asked two weeks ago.
HON. MAGO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minster of Local Government and Public Works. The country’s infrastructure is decayed, including sports infrastructure like stadia, halls and public buildings. In view of the CAF ban on our stadia why did Government allow this situation to get to boiling point?
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No point of order. Allow the Minister to answer.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you very much for the question you raised about the decay, as you say, of the National Sports Stadium. If you look back on the budgets that we have been submitting form previous years, you will notice that maintenance of stadiums has not been given priority. There has been fighting for the same financing and the financing that we have been given as a Ministry has not been enough for us to be able to maintain the stadiums. Also, for your own information most of the stadiums are maintained by the local authorities, although they fall under the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works. In addition to that, right now we have put in place a mechanism where we are maintaining the National Sports stadium and also hoping to maintain the Barbourfields Stadium. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I stood down the point of order from Hon. Mliswa. On explanation, I think Hon. Mliswa was correct. We ask for a Ministerial Statement and we are hoping that should come tomorrow.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am not accepting any point of order.
We wait for the Ministerial Statement.
HON. HAMAUSWA: It is not on that issue.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You cannot raise a point of order in the
air alright?
HON. HAMAUSWA: It is related to the issue Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no. Thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Okay, a point of privilege – [Laughter]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. You cannot raise a point of privilege now.
HON. HAMAUSWA: At least hear my concern. My issue Mr.
Speaker Sir is that we have requested a Ministerial Statement on water…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Let me finish Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no. Please take your seat.
HON. HAMAUSWA: My suggestion was…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Take your seat! Sir – [HON. MEMBER:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Tobacco selling season is fast approaching. I would like to ask, what is Government policy on the payment of tobacco farmers in foreign currency and allowing a proportion of the payments to be accessed in foreign currency?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON.
HARITATOS): Unfortunately, this question is rightly answered by the Ministry of Finance. It is not part of our mandate to decide what portion we paid in foreign currency and local currency – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): As of now, we do not have a
new policy with regards to the payments for tobacco but what is obtaining is the policy that we had in the previous tobacco season, that is where we are going to split the payment in foreign currency and in RTGs.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: My supplementary question is, is there any consideration on the exchange rate at which farmers will liquidate their nostro accounts when they sell their tobacco?
HON. CHIDUWA: What I would want to add which is not yet announced is that as of last week we had a meeting with tobacco farmers. What is left is for us to announce the new position with regards to how the proportion is going to be split between the foreign currency component and the RTGs.
With regards to the follow up question, if farmers want to liquidate their foreign currency component, they will make use of the interbank
rate.
HON. BITI: I have a supplementary to the learned Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance. Tobacco farmers incur inputs in US dollars. They sell their product at auction floors in US dollars. There is no legal basis or law that authorises the Reserve Bank to expropriate their foreign currency. We would like the Minister to assure farmers and this House that there will be no expropriations from tobacco farmers and that they will get their raw foreign currency after a sale at the tobacco auction floors –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. CHIDUWA: I am not sure if we can call it expropriation but I think for us as a Government, what is going to be followed is Government policy. The farmers are going to follow Government policy and that is it - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. BITI: Hon. Speaker, a policy should follow the law.
There is no law which allows the Government to take tobacco farmers’ money and converting it from US dollars to the local currency. We do not want a policy that violates the law. The law should be followed.
Whoever sells his tobacco using US dollars should be given US dollars.
That is all we ask Mr. Speaker Sir - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
*HON. CHIDUWA: The money that was supposed to circulate is the local currency. We migrated from the multicurrency system and we adopted the use of local currency. What is legal is using our local currency. Any other currency is illegal - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: My supplementary question is, considering the regulations that were announced by the RBZ allowing those who sell fuel to sell in US dollars, that is not happening to those who sell tobacco. My observation is that there is policy incoherence within the Government especially looking at those who supply fuel and those who sell tobacco.
*HON. CHIDUWA: I do not see any conflict regarding Government policy. The issue to those who observe what is happening is – every month we use US$100 000 000 to import fuel. This means that throughout the year we use a minimum of US$1.300 billion on importing fuel. The fact that there is policy incoherence is not necessarily the truth. There is no conflict.
There are some people who have their US dollars and even farmers who also have US dollars can go and buy their fuel on designated service stations. So there is no conflict.
HON. MARKHAM: My supplementary is on exactly the same issue but going to the Zimbabwean dollar side.
What is Government policy in making money accessible to the farmers once it has been deposited in the bank account, particularly the small scale farmer who has no access to any banking facility to get their money in RTG even Ecocash because as soon as you use Ecocash, you would have lost 30% of the value on top of having it exchanged at the bank rate which makes the farmer totally unviable.
It is further complicated because he has got a small crop, he brings it into town and he has to sell it in order to find some cash to go home. What is Government policy to help those farmers access their own money?
HON. CHIDUWA: If I got the question right, he is saying there are some farmers who do not even have access to Ecocash or mobile money. Surely for us in terms of digitalisation, we said we want to embrace the use of digital money. So if there is any farmer without a mobile number, I am sure you can advise them to have a mobile number.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Deputy Minister, I
think try to endeavour to answer the question in a manner that can direct to some solution.
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The issue is, how are the small holder farmers going to be able to access their money?
We are saying, largely at the moment most of the transactions that are happening are happening via the use of mobile money and for the rural farmers - obviously in most rural areas, we do not have banks. So for the majority of rural farmers, they will make use of mobile money as
I said. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order let us not belabour the point. I am asking the Hon. Deputy Minister to look into the matter and see how those disadvantaged rural farmers out there can be assisted. I think that is the compromise, let us look for a solution accordingly.
Some Hon. Members having stood up to pose supplementary questions.
Order, order, I have closed the debate. You want a short one?
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, my question that was not clearly answered by the Hon. Deputy Minister is that when Hon. Biti posed his question it was not clear. The question was, when tobacco is being sold it is being paid for in US$. So after it has been paid for in US$, why is it that we want to pay the person in ZWL$ and in USD$?
Since it is paid for in cash US$, why should the tobacco farmers not be paid in US$?
*HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. As I alluded
before, the policy as I am speaking is what happened last year but farmers and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe had engaged each other and resolved that we should come up with a new policy. So we will let you know when we have agreed as to how we are going to do it. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: No further supplementary questions. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, no! I think that it is now Hon. Munetsi and Hon. Chinyanganya who must come in now.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. In his absence, I do not know if I am allowed to redirect it to the Minister of
Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development – I know that he will be able to answer it.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your question Hon. Member?
HON. MUNETSI: My question is, in schools we used to have what was called per capita grants. Do we still have that policy because it used to help schools a lot.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, can you assist - you cannot.
THE MINISTER HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION,
INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Mr. Speaker, I do
not know.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker but I did not quite understand the question. He did not specify what per capita grant he is referring to, if he can expand a little bit.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I can explain what
per capita grant is. May I explain?
THE HON. SPEAKER: You may proceed.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you. Per capita grant is money that
was allocated to a student at a school so that they can be assisted to buy text books, et cetera. Every student used to get an allocation from
Government; per school and per child. Do we still have that policy?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker, our secondary schools are still supported by Government in terms of provision of text books. Hon. Members will recall that one of the largest budgets that we passed in this august House pertained to primary and secondary education. I thank you.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my
question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. What measures are being taken by the Government to ensure that there is compliance with the Competition Act considering the fact that there are monopolies in the industries such as fuel, for example by Green Fuel and also in the food industry by Innscor and Simbisa Brands.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
- KANHUTU-NZENZA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I really want to thank the Hon. Member of Parliament for that very significant question. That question is being addressed by the board of the Competition and Tariffs Commission. We are currently in the process reviewing the decision making process within that board and this is one of the key issues that we are tasked with. We are taking this matter very seriously. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
supplementary question relates to the genesis of the original question to the extent that why are we allowing monopolies and one of the examples given was in the fuel industry. I will direct my supplementary to level. Mr. Speaker, why does the Government force me to buy blended fuel in therefore promoting one particular monopoly? Thank you.
HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
The question was very specific and it requires – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Order please.
HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I will
answer the question in two levels. Firstly, it must be put in writing. Secondly, it is also a question that must be addressed by ZERA. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
HON. SIKHALA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. The question by Hon. Chikwinya was saying why are citizens of Zimbabwe or motorist being forced to compulsorily buy blended fuel? Why do we not have an option for those who want to buy blended fuel or not and that blended fuel is being supplied by one cartel. Why are we forced, all the citizens of Zimbabwe, to support one cartel – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. I agree
with the Minister that you have said why are citizens? It means it has happened to somebody – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members, order please.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Let me clarify.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Sit down before you clarify – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order please. I am saying if you seek for a clarification, it is still okay but if you repeat the same question, you must put it in writing.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will clarify
on two points. The first point is that it is not true that it is a specific question because it is Government policy that consumers and motorists consume blended fuel. It is Government policy and I am asking the rationale of that policy which relates to a monopoly as from the original question. The second issue is that it must be answered by ZERA.
Government acts in unison and precedence was set today. If the Minister cannot answer on behalf of ZERA, she can defer the question to the Minister of Energy. There are two issues, first it is not a specific issue, it is policy and secondly, if she cannot answer she will refer to the Minister of Energy who controls ZERA.
HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I
specifically said this is a question of ZERA that was referring the question to Energy and I will do it again. I will refer the question to Energy as I have done before – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members please.
Hon. Khumalo, order please.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
What I got from the question is that why is there monopoly in the blending of fuel and why are motorist being forced to use the blended fuel without an option to use unblended fuel. Let me answer the last question first. When we take up the decision to do the blending with ethanol, it was meant to increase on volumes. I think we are aware that we are having a serious shortage of fuel in the country. So, if we do not blend our fuel, that will demand so much on the forex that we need to buy the fuel. So, that is why we had a policy to do the blending.
Currently, we are blending at 5%, at some point we went to as far as 20%. We do not have enough fuel in the country, so there is no choice for motorists to choose on whether they want to use the blended fuel or the unblended.
On the question of monopoly – I do not think there is a monopoly there. We have Green Fuels; we also have ethanol from Triangle where we have sugarcane fields. If we got many players to do the sugarcane plantations, we welcome them to participate in the ethanol business. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
supplementary question is that does the Minister not think that there is a conflict on the policy? On one side; we are blending fuel to sell in foreign currency and to increase the fuel which is in short supplies – that is policy number 1. Policy number 2; we now have garages selling in USD, what is the point of using local content when we are selling everything in USD to the motorists who cannot choose whether there is pure fuel or 5%, 10%, 15% or 20% ethanol. So, is that not a conflict in policy with the Government?
The Hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development having taken time to respond to the question.
*HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order! The question asked by Hon. Markham is very clear - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
HON. T. MLISWA: The supplementary question that was asked by Hon. Markham to the Deputy Minister - it is now five minutes without the Minister answering. We are wasting time.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is a point of order by Hon. Madzimure.
*HON. MADZIMURE: My point of order is that the question that was asked by Hon. Markham that we are blending fuel and we are selling that blended fuel using forex – that question should be answered by the Hon. Deputy Minister as a policy question. I thank you.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. If I got the question correctly, the Hon. Member is asking why people are made to pay in USD for the blended fuel. What I can say is that I am not aware that we have got a policy where we are selling fuel in USD – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
In Zimbabwe, fuel is sold in the local currency but we do have selected garages who sell to the guests of the State like diplomats and
NGO’s who buy in foreign currency. We do not have any other service stations that sell in forex. Whoever is selling the fuel in USD is going against the law because the law of Zimbabwe is that we sell our fuel in the local currency and not in the USD.
Even though there is that blending, there is still the foreign currency component where we import the fuel so the foreign currency is also needed to pay for the imported fuel – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! May I suggest that because the Minister of Energy and Power Development was asked to make a statement - I hope those issues will be addressed by that statement. The Minister of Energy and power Development will have to address those concerns. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker, the first question arose as a result of the monopolies which are there. It was directed to the Minister of Trade and Industry. You then referred the one on energy to the Minister. May the Ministers listen because it is important?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa we have referred
that to the statements.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is a point of clarity which is important.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: On which one, the one I have
ruled upon? I think I have ruled that the statement will cover monopolies on energy. I think we are through. I do not have to entertain any other clarification.
HON. T. MLISWA: Does the Minister know what her statement must have because there were many issues which were asked. The issue on the ethanol monopoly is that Minister, there is Green Fuel which is given a monopoly to bring ethanol and you talked about Triangle. Triangle only comes in when Green Fuel has failed to supply. The question is why do you give monopolies to a company which has no capacity? I was the Chairman for the Energy Committee. We did this.
Triangle only comes in when Green Fuel fails to supply to the Government.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, can you address
all those when the Minister has given us the statement.
HON. T. MLISWA: No, but I am trying to get the Minister to understand where the monopoly is. The contract is with Green Fuel.
When Green Fuel fails to supply Government, then Triangle comes in. The question is why they give somebody monopoly when they have no capacity. This is where the issue is. Will the Minister be able to respond to that? Not only that, Green Fuel were supposed to comply with the 49/51 Indigenisation Act at the time. Why did they not comply?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, can you please
present that question when the statement has been presented.
HON. T. MLISWA: In the statement we want her to address the issue why monopoly is given to a company without capacity, Minister. Triangle only comes in when Green Fuel has failed. So why do you give them the monopoly? That is my question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member.
Can we proceed please? I think I have ruled on that one.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement. May the Hon. Minister enlighten us on Government policy regarding the need to retrain and reorient our extension officers, especially so that they can effectively address issues of climate change and be able to harness opportunities offered by new technologies in agriculture. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. HARITOTIS):
Thank you Hon. Speaker and thank you to the Hon. Member. Indeed Hon. Speaker it is critical. Technologies change daily and as a Ministry we have an ongoing programme to continuously retrain, re-educate and re-capacitate our extension officers on a month to month basis. In Shona we say kudzidza hakuperi and that is definitely the case when it comes to agriculture. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement. Mr. Speaker Sir there is a disease called Theileriosis, commonly known as the January Disease. What is Government doing to ensure that there are vaccines available to treat this? A lot of cattle have died and it is more of a national disaster. A national disaster is not only when people die but the level and the amount of cattle that have died, it is only important that we declare it a national disaster, but Government must come in with interventions.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Go straight to the question
please.
HON. T. MLISWA: So what has Government done in terms of providing the vaccines so that we eradicate this disease?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
WATER AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. HARITOTIS):
Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir and thank you to the Hon. Member for the question. Indeed Hon. Member, we did have a major problem the last two years. Our major constraints have been foreign currency.
I would just like to correct the Hon. Member and inform you that the January Disease is treated not by vaccinations but by dipping chemicals. So we did have problems with both dipping chemicals and vaccinations with regards to the procurement over the last two years, but I am very happy to inform the Hon. Member that through our donor partners, out of the 60 districts that we have in our country, 28 districts have current dipping and vaccine systems in place for the next six months as a bare minimum.
We also have the other 32 districts which will be catered for by the Government. Unfortunately as I mentioned, we do not have unlimited budgets and certainly we are still constrained within the other 32 districts, but we are indeed receiving in bits and pieces some form of revenue and it is our hope that we catch up to indeed insure and guarantee that all 60 districts have dipping facilities in place.
In addition to that, Hon. Speaker, with regards to vaccinations of anthrax as well as the control of FMD, we were fortunate to receive US$1 million which was paid to the Botswana Institute of Vaccinations which allowed us the release of 800 000 doses for us to combat anthrax and it is my strong belief that we are on top of things with a few exceptions of course.
With regards to the vaccines and the treatment of FMB we are also relaxing which means that we have entered into a grey area now that our cattle are allowed to move on a case to case basis in certain provinces.
Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker thank you for that response from the Minister, but just yesterday I was with the heads of department for the Veterinary Services and they clearly said that there is $17million which is due to them in terms of coming up with vaccines. Not only that, the issue which is important is that most of the cattle and meat that we are eating right now is full of disease and it has repercussions on our health later on. What is Government doing to stop the selling of these cattle until the diseases are eradicated? That is the reason why you see people being sick because of what we are eating. There has got to be a situation where Government stops the selling of cattle until a point where the disease has been eradicated. What is Government doing to address this issue because disease are there; the meat is being eaten which has disease.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO): I
think he has heard your question.
HON. T. MLISWA: What are you doing to also remunerate the veterinary doctors who never go on strike but equally are doctors in terms of their salaries as well?
HON. HARITATOS: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for
the three questions that were supplemented there. Firstly, I would like to comment on the money that is owed to the veterinary department. What I believe the Hon. Member is asking is money owed by the public to the veterinary services. I stand to be corrected but I think that is the –[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - The money that is allocated to the Ministry is allocated through Ministry of Finance through our budgets. We do allocate money internally but money specifically comes from the Ministry of Finance with intended beneficiary. As a Ministry, we are making every effort to ensure that our Department of Veterinary Services (DVS) is in fact capacitated with the rightful amounts of funding that is required to fight and combat such a serious problem that we have in our country.
Secondly, with regards to cattle that have diseases, it is our hope that the public listened to the Hon. Member asking this question because the problem and the answer relies with the public. We say when you slaughter cattle, you should do it formally. The disease that the Hon. Member is referring to come from cattle that are slaughtered illegally and therefore it is important for the public to understand that there are serious health repercussion if they consume cattle that have disease. However, as long as the cattle go through a formal system, there is no way that those diseases will find a way to the public.
The last question with regards to remuneration of our Vets, unfortunately this falls within the domain of public service. We do not directly pay the veterinary services or our employees. These are paid by the Civil Service Commission. I do agree with the Hon. Member that definitely, these should be looked into and reviewed urgently.
HON. T. MLISWA: What guarantee do we have that the meat
which is being sold in the supermarkets has no disease? Can you give us a guarantee as a nation that the meat which we are buying in the supermarkets or butcheries has absolutely no disease?
HON. HARITATOS: As I mentioned, if these cattle are slaughtered formally, this is a multi-stakeholder approach. We have the
Department of the Veterinary Services at every slaughter. We have the Rural District Council at every slaughter. We have an association that promotes the cattle in Zimbabwe – forgive me I have forgotten the name of the association but they are all part of this. These provide checks and balances. As long as the cattle are formally slaughtered, it will stop any form of diseases being consumed but if there are any cattle slaughtered in the informal sector, certainly it is for us to police it to engage the ZRP to ensure that practice is minimized.
HON. S. BANDA: There was a question posed earlier concerning education per capita and we did not get a satisfactory response from the
Minister. Therefore we seek extension of time. The Minister of
Education is now in the House available to give us an accurate response.
HON. C. MOYO: I second. We did not get an accurate response.
Motion put and negatived.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
PRESENTATION OF MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Order, order Hon. Members. There are two Ministerial Statements that were requested by Hon. Members from two different Ministers. I now wish to give an opportunity to the two Ministers to present the
Statements.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
ISSUANCE OF COPPER EXPORT LICENCES
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. On
Tuesday, 26th September, Hon. Ndebele invited our office to make a Ministerial Statement on the logic of granting of copper exporting licences to registered entities in Zimbabwe that does not produce copper.
The Hon. Member alleged that the granting of copper exporting licences to particular entities promoted vandalism of some of ZESA’s infrastructure specifically for transformer oil and copper cables. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I have brought the Ministerial Statement.
I wish to start by thanking the Hon. Member for the question and agree with him that vandalism of critical infrastructure especially that of our public utilities has become a national problem.
Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me to take this opportunity and inform the
Hon. Member that copper dealer’s licences are issued in accordance with the provisions of Section 4 of the Copper Control Act (Chapter 14:06) which is administered by my Ministry. The Act further regulates copper acquisition, disposal, record-keeping and copper possession. However, when it comes to the sale and export of all minerals, copper included, it is the prerogative of the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. The said Ministry is responsible for the issuance of export licences as provided by Section 43 of the Minerals Marketing Corporation of
Zimbabwe Act (Chapter 21:04). In this regard, my Ministry is charged with the duty of physically verifying the consignment by matching with the accompanying documents.
I would like to also acknowledge the fact that our copper mines are now dysfunctional. Nevertheless, it is critical to highlight that
Zimbabwe has other sources of copper which include obsolete industrial, domestic or household equipment. For this reason, copper dealers licences continue to be issued for the purposes of regulating players involved in this business. More importantly, the issuance of such licences is based on strict regard to legitimate sources of copper.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I also state that my Ministry through the Zimbabwe Republic Police’s Criminal Investigation Department has a specialised section called the Minerals, Flora and Fauna Unit which deals with mineral related crimes. I am happy to mention that through such specialisation, the ZRP working with related stakeholders has been able to detect and arrest several organised criminal syndicates and individuals vandalising public infrastructure and stealing copper across the country.
Furthermore, a number of strategies aimed at curbing such illicit activities continue to be adopted. I wish to advise the Hon. Member that some of the strategies put in place include the setting of a multistakeholder taskforce comprising the ZRP, ZESA, TelOne and NRZ to look into the issuance of copper dealer’s licences as well as dealing in scrap metal.
In addition, we continue to appeal that deterrent sentences be passed to all criminals convicted for vandalism and theft of public utilities infrastructure. This will go a long way in sending a strong message to all such criminal elements not to vandalise or tamper with our public utilities infrastructure. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Minister ably defines the Copper Act, Section 4 under his Ministry and he equally talks about Section 33 of the Minerals Act in which the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development is equally responsible. He equally says that their duty is to verify all this and also further admits that there is no copper mining in the country. Whilst there is no copper mining in the country, the only source of copper are some of the gadgets that are there and so forth.
My question to the Hon. Minister is that all these sources of copper that he talks about, do they first go to his Ministry to say, ‘I have got an element of copper from my house or whatever which I want to dispose of which is quite important’, because of the situation which has arisen which is of vandalism in terms of the transformers. Mr. Speaker Sir, we now need to know the source of the copper and that is very important. It is not good for us to give them a licence and not know where the source of the copper is yet there is no copper mining. So it is critical that the Hon. Minister establishes how sure he is that the copper or licences that they have given to these small dealers at the end of the day is coming from other credible sources and not from the transformers.
The other issue is how much copper does the country export in terms of quantity to see whether it is really useful for us to keep giving these licences. Is it making any business sense? How much does the country generate from a forex point of view, from the copper that is being sourced through other means other than mining and so forth?
I would like the Hon. Minister to also further explain why the multi-taskforce which comprises of ZESA now is also not able to verify the copper, whether it is coming from the transformers or from another source. Now that you have got a multi-taskforce that is responsible for this, is it not prudent to have a centre in each province that before they sell the copper they come and show the copper for us to know that the copper has not come from the transformers? I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to raise
two issues arising from the Ministerial Statement. Number one issue concerns the issue of the form of copper being exported – if they are exporting it in raw form. I would want to ask the Hon. Minister what they are doing to try to make sure that the copper is processed in Zimbabwe. When it is processed in Zimbabwe, it is also going to minimise the incidences of vandalism.
There is another aspect which is also not copper but it is related to what the Ministerial Statement is speaking to. We have now a lot of car scrapes from the ex-Japanese but it looks as if the Government has no policy to make sure that those car scrapes are recycled. It seems the Government is not giving licences to those people who would want to export car scrapes from Japan giving an argument that in Zimbabwe we do not manufacture cars. It requires now the Government to come up with a clear integrated waste management policy which includes managing electronic waste because some of the gadgets the Minister referred to are electronic gadgets. We would like to know what the Minister is doing to make sure that there is cooperation with other ministries towards a well integrated waste management policy that includes electronic waste. I thank you.
HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Surely considering the unemployment rate which stood at 99.9%, the increase or the degree on vandalism and surely ZESA statistics on vandalism, do you not think it is high time to review the section which is allowing that?
Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have three issues and the first issue is that we are not a copper producing country. My question is, is it possible to have joint operation between the Minister of Home Affairs and the Minister of Mines to curtail the issuance of copper operating licences or copper export permits to completely annihilate that part seeing we do not produce? We used to have Mhangura Copper Mine and it is now closed. Is it not possible for them to jointly curtail the issuance of copper export permits completely?
The second issue, aware that 600 thousand copper cabling and network and there has been vandalism of transformers that could have catered for 600 thousand people to put them up to 1.2 million subscribers, this elongated copper network of cabling that has been vandalised has stopped or it has impeded upon electrification, both rural and urban of our nation. This is a gloomy picture that I have tried to paint. Mr. Speaker, my clarion call and request is that the Home Affairs Minister charged with security, would it not be possible for him to employ technology, in particular to police the remaining electricity network together with his friend the Minister of Energy using drones which can carry payload that are being used by the progressive nations like the US to carry lethal payload? Could we not arm those drones with video cameras in order that we monitor the remaining cabling on our network?
The third and last issue that I seek clarity on Mr. Speaker Sir, is the issue ....
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Make that the last one but be
brief Hon. Nduna because you are seeking clarification. You are not lecturing the Minister.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for your protection. The last issue that I seek clarity on is the issue of alternative means and ways of dealing with our power transmission network instead of continually laying copper and aluminium cables which are prone to theft. Is it possible that the two ministers have alternative sources of cabling; fibre optic is one of them that I seek to know if they can include that in terms of transmitting power so that we can reduce the vandalism and the appetite for copper and aluminium? I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Members for the pertinent questions that were raised. With your indulgence Mr. Speaker Sir, what I seem to be seeing here is that maybe we do not appreciate what the Act says. What I am hearing now and most of the questions that were raised have nothing to do with the Act. With your indulgence, I can summarise the Act then I can answer the question.
First and foremost, I appreciate the concerns raised by Hon. Members that of vandalism of our infrastructure especially the theft and vandalism of transformers and cables. This particular Act, in fact attempts to deal with that exactly because it tries to regulate people who are allowed to handle or to deal in copper, not raw copper.
If I may start by defining the copper that is being referred to in this Act. Copper in this particular Act means electrolytic copper which has been drawn into the form of a code, which means those wires; any copper conductor, section or tubing – again it is a finished product; any article, product containing copper which under subsection 2 is declared to be copper for the purposes of this Act and includes any such electrolytic copper, copper conductor, section, or tubing article or product which is called a second hand or has been subjected to smelting or other treatment. Basically, we are talking of copper that has been processed.
Secondly, I also heard that some Members were referring to questions with regards to exports. I thought I made it very clear that when it is about exporting copper, it is now under the Ministry of Mines. This Act only deals with those people who are dealing in copper finished products within this country. What this Act does, for example the dealers licence. A license in such form as may be prescribed may be issued by the Minister in his discretion upon application made in writing and such a licence shall entitle the holder thereof to carry on the trade of business of a dealer upon the premises specified in the licence. It confines you to the address that you would have included when you apply for the licence.
Secondly and most importantly, every dealer – this is now specifically to respond to Hon. Mliswa’s concerns; every dealer shall provide and keep or cause to be kept, a register consisting of one or more books herein referred to as the register of all transactions relative to his business. As such, a dealer and person who is or has been a dealer shall retain such a register for a period of three years after the date of the last entry. What is supposed to be included in that register? The nature and weight of such copper that has either been acquired or sold. The date and time of the delivery to him or his agent or employee and where the purchase or acquisition was effected or delivery was made to an agent or employee of such dealer, the name of such agent or employee and in that register also you must include the name and address of the person from whom such copper was purchased or acquired. In the case of any copper sold or otherwise disposed of by the dealer concerned, the metal and weight of such copper, the date on which it was disposed, the name and address of the person to whom such copper was sold or otherwise disposed of, or such other particulars if any as may be prescribed. So, I could go on and on, and that register compels you to keep all the documents as to where you got the copper from, the amount of the copper and to who you sold the copper to.
Now, prohibition against the sale or purchase of copper. No person other than a dealer or a licenced dealer shall sale any copper to any other person including a dealer or a licenced dealer unless he produces to such other person such documentary evidence of his title to sale such copper as maybe prescribed or a certificate of clearance. If you go through that Act, you clearly see that it is trying to address your concerns to ensure that. Again, for you to get that licence you have to be vetted. You must be clean of any criminal records and the rest. So in my view Mr. Speaker Sir, this Act attempts to deal with vandalism in that not everybody is allowed to deal in copper products without a licence.
The other questions that were raised by Hon. Nduna who was saying are there no other alternative ways of transmitting electricity. Honestly, that has nothing to do with the Copper Act. That is something else which falls under the Ministry of Energy, even the policing that he referred to – policing of property of an entity like ZESA is the responsibility of ZESA. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I rise as a follow up to the various clauses that have been quoted by the Hon. Minister. For example Hon. Minister, you begin by defining copper for the purposes of this Act and in that definition you include copper tubing. As you were winding up, you set out the conditions under which a sell of copper can be done and that is to an authorised dealer but if you look at our hardwares and I am trying just to highlight the gaps in the law. If you look at our hardwares, they are full of copper tubing for the purposes of plumbing. So I can walk into a hardware at any given time and purchase copper tubing for the purposes of plumbing then be found with stolen copper somewhere and then claim that I bought it for the purposes of tubing.
The second issue according to your definition when you say dealer and I talk Hon. Minister on the basis of experience, there are industries that use copper for the purposes of their industrial work, smelters for example. These are not necessarily copper dealers but because in a smelter you have power transmitted in a copper cable and when these copper cables have been done with, they are sold as scrap metal. It then gives a gap at law to the extent that the smelter is not a dealer but he is disposing copper as scrap metal which scrap metal can then be mixed with other copper which has been stolen under household purposes. ZIMASCO and ZIM Alloys have such copper and Zimplats has such furnaces that use copper.
As the Minister indulged us with the basic question by the Hon. Members especially from the mover of the motion that how do we policy domestic copper which has a direct bearing on the transmission of power to our households especially that which is obtained from transformers; we want the Hon. Minister to zero in his answers to that extent. Lastly Hon. Speaker, what I want to say is that I am seeing resistance from the Minister. Perhaps he is throwing the ball back to us as legislators that you must simply refine your own law. There is resistance that we should continuously issue people with certificates to trade in copper when we are not a copper producing nation. That form of resistance and to change your mindset will continuously get us exposed and ZESA for example, will not recover from the vagaries of vandalism and theft.
We should simply bar people from trading in copper and see what the consequences are. Who is going to be affected because for example in Zimbabwe, we only have CAFCA which is situated here in Harare who are importing copper for the purposes of manufacturing cables? They are the only ones and why do I need a copper cabling certificate. It simply means you are promoting me to be a dealer and that dealership now exposes me to be able to steal ZESA cables. That will be my point of observation.
HON. T. MLISWA: I think Hon. Chikwinya would not have put it any better. The question that I ask Hon. Minister is that the so-called dealers that are being given licences, how much do they contribute to the forex in the country? How many people do they employ compared to the transformers which have been stolen and vandalised. To me we need to talk about that because when you are then taking action, you are taking action based on figures that the copper which is exported is so much worthy and is helping the country on this. We also calculate the transformers which have been vandalised, how much it is. In a nutshell, what do we lose for you probably suspending for three months while you also verify on these dealers whether they are authentic or not. In those three months, you will see that the transformers which are being vandalized, the numbers will go down and that I can bet you. So it is my challenge Minister that bite the bullet, suspend and you will see the reward of this. You have nothing to lose. We have diamonds and gold. What is copper at the end of the day when we are not even enjoying the money from diamonds or gold anyway? So what is copper?
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am sorry that when the Ministerial Statement was read I had just stepped out but I am grateful to other Hon. Members for holding fort. From what I have seen, a good job has been done out of the whole thing but just one or two for the Minister’s consideration. It is not just ZESA cables by the way. This also affects Telone lines and my position is, if the mandatory sentence is ten years and it has proven not to be deterrent enough, what is the
Minister’s plea to this House in terms of increasing the number of years that one gets jailed for because this is disruptive to business and the smooth social communication. When I initially requested for this statement I had requested in my wisdom that it should be a joint statement from the Minister of Home Affairs and the Minister of Mines so that we adequately take care of the export bit that Hon. Members keep raising here. Without necessarily setting the cat amongst the pigeons, I want to ask the Minister if he is ready to confirm if one or two entities that have or that hold these copper trading licences if one belongs to the sitting Vice President Hon. Kembo Mohadi and if the other belongs to the former Vice President, Joyce Mujuru? Thank you
Hon. Speaker.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Hon. Mayihlome, order please!
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me start by responding to Hon. Ndebele’s questions. The first one being that what is my plea with regards to sentences. My plea would be the stiffest sentence that can be applied. In other countries, people serve as long as 30 years in jail for such crimes. So, if we could follow suit, I think that would be deterrent enough. The second question was that, do I know whether some licences belong to Vice President Mohadi and former Vice President, Joyce Mujuru. My answer is I have no clue whatsoever.
In fact, I do not even know any licence holder.
The other question was an allegation that I am being defensive and I am being resistant. I refuse totally and comfortably. I am not being defensive Mr. Speaker Sir. I was simply trying to …
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Speaker, I just want to put it on record that the first time I requested for this Ministerial Statement, I pleaded that when the Minister brings it to this House, he canvasses or he addresses companies that hold to those licences by name. I knew where I was going.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The request that we received did not include those details that are being referred to. In fact, I have it. The statement that I have received from Parliament requesting the Ministerial Statement did not include those details and it is there.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. NDEBELE: You know what is causing all this Hon. Speaker. It is because this request has been sitting on their desk for more than six months and the desk has been sending these. So, in the process of back and forth, my important request has been lost as a result. I want to repeat this. Ministers must always remember that they preside over a delegated authority; authority delegated by this House. Whenever they take time to respond to questions, we lose out on a lot of important facts. I would not blame the desk because that request for a statement has been sent several times and my request to Ministers is that delegated authority must be treated with the utmost care and due regard. Thank
you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of order is really about the ruling that you must make. Does it hurt the Minister to bring a list of all dealers? We hold people accountable; that is our job. At every level, we hold people accountable. As such, I implore your good Chair to submit a list of all the dealers and how much money they are generating in terms of foreign currency so that we are able to appreciate what they are doing so that when we are making a decision, it is an informed decision which is logical. This is because there are figures involved and so forth. Not only that, how many do they employ. That then tells us exactly why it is necessary to keep this licence. I do not know Mr.
Speaker Sir if you can indulge the Hon. Minister to submit a list of the dealers and all that.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. I
think this is a new request. Probably the Minister may also respond.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The question
raised that I am being resistant, no I am not being resistant. If this House realises that there are gaps within the law, it is in the powers of this House to amend those laws. We are amenable to what makes our country tick so I am not resistant at all. The issue of the list you have already dealt with Mr. Speaker Sir. I am not sure if there is another question that I have not responded to.
Hon. Mliswa asked a question why we should maintain such a law if there is so much vandalism. We have to go back and do a cost benefit analysis. At the end of the day, we must also realise that scrap copper is also usable. All the scrap copper, especially from TelOne, there are times when other entities want to dispose of their copper legally and there are people who also want that copper so that they can redo it, smelt it and make new products from that copper. We need to do a proper cost benefit analysis to say how then do we deal with such cases. Mr.
Speaker Sir, point taken and we will look at it. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of order to the Hon. Minister is that two names were brought up by Hon. Ndebele and it is on record. If it goes on record and he does not attend to it, the notion and the thinking of the people would be that he is protecting them. So that is why I am asking the Minister …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. I wanted to
address that one. I think it was a new requirement which was not in the request.
HON. T. MLISWA: It just helps everybody. It gives transparency and protects the so called heavy weights.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think Minister, the issue was
around licences. Because the licences are given to people or organisations, can you in the near future bring a statement on these licences?
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I raised two questions which the Minister did not answer. One I said, is the copper which the Minister referred to being smelted in Zimbabwe? The second one was, when was the act which the Minister based his Ministerial Statement on designed when we had no upsurge of the ex-Japan car scraps. So I was suggesting that is it not also possible when they are going to think about this Act and the issue of giving licences to copper dealers to also think about how to deal with car scraps from ex-Japan that are actually becoming a menace to our environment. At the same time there is no clear policy that guides disposal of car scraps which I think is really directly related to the issue the Minister was supposed to address.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): There
are other two Ministers that are going to give us Ministerial Statements, I want the Minister to respond then we go the next one.
HON. C. MOYO: I highlighted the issue of ZESA statistics of vandalism and he did not mention anything about that. I think it is very prudent when he is going to bring that list of names, he must also provides the degree of vandalism nationwide, I think it is very important then we will be able to take a decision thereof. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is unfortunate I gave you a
chance and you were not even here.
HON. NDEBELE: But now I am in the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can the Minister respond
please.
Hon Ndebele moving to speak at the Table.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndebele you are
disregarding the Chair now. You are challenging the Chair.
HON. NDEBELE: I want to add something so that he brings it in his statement.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Sit down.
HON. NDEBELE: Aiwa ndini ndabvunza mubvunzo wacho – [HON. MEMBERS: Gara pasi.] – aiwa handisi kugara pasi mhani iwe.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member can you sit
down I gave you two chances. Go back to your seat.
HON. NDEBELE: I have an addition and I want it to be added when he gives his Ministerial Statement.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will give you that chance can
you respect the Chair, please go back to your seat – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections] –
HON. NDEBELE: Kana yavanyaya yezvibhakeraka.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndebele, I will order you
to leave the House.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): On the question of whether we
know that copper is processed locally. Mr. Speaker, the answer is as Ministry of Home Affairs or as police; we would not know whether copper is being processed in this country, that question will be best answered by the Ministry of Mines or Industry and Commerce. The other issue with regards to car scraps, again it is a bit of a complex question because scrap metal from a car does not necessarily lead to copper. So, I am not so sure if it falls under that. Maybe the copper from the car, it becomes a bit tricky so, I do not think it falls under this Act. The degree of vandalism, I know the Hon. Member asked us to include it in our statement but I am not so sure Mr. Speaker if that also falls under this Act because I would like to think that ZESA, under the Ministry of Energy would be the best ministry because they keep those statistics because they are the ones who lose the transformers. Otherwise we promise to bring the list that has been requested on Wednesday.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
NOVEMBER 2019 EXAMINATIONS FOR UZ MEDICAL
STUDENTS
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon. Speaker I am giving a
statement on the issue of 5th year medical students who did not write their examinations in the November/December 2019 examination period at the University of Zimbabwe. Hon. Speaker, the medical students at the University of Zimbabwe wrote to the university telling the university that they are not ready to write their examinations. The university then had already its timetable for writing examinations. On the 22nd of November, 2019, the students approached the High Court to try and make sure that the High Court makes a decision that these students should not write examinations. So they took the university to court and said their complaint was that the university was trying to make them write examination when they do not want to write those examinations – [HON. MEMBERS: They were not ready and they did not want are two different things.] - I know exactly and I am in touch with my ministry.
The High Court made a decision that this had to go back to university processes. As you know, the law of academic freedom tells us that the supreme decision maker is the Senate which is the supreme academic body of a university and they decide who writes and who does not write after hearing students’ cases. So the students were re-directed to follow process. When they went to Senate with this case, the university made a decision to agree with the students that you cannot force students to write examinations, you cannot do that. There is no way students can be forced to write examinations, if they say we do not want to write; there is no way you can make them write.
Why, it is very simple, if you have a student driver, and the student driver says do not put me into this car, I am not yet ready, you cannot force them to drive, it is a quality issue. So, the university agreed with the students on the conditions that they laid out to say improve this and that before we write. The university agreed with them and said okay we will look at those conditions. Now, Mr. Speaker, the question of examinations is a serious quality issue and there is no way one cannot take a serious look at whatever complains there are about examinations. This is medicine, this is life and when students sat they are not ready, then they are not ready. There is no case whereby the university would force them to do things. I gave an example of a student driver - if they say do not put me in this car I cannot drive, you do not do that. – [AN. HON. MEMBER: So what is the way forward.] - Mr. Speaker, I guess
Hon. Members wants to know. So, the case which is there is that the University of Zimbabwe is in the process of making the conditions that were asked by the students to correct the situation. Therefore, we are waiting for that process to take place.
Hon. Speaker, the University of Zimbabwe and the Government of Zimbabwe which superintends over it and this House which superintends over that University as an arm of State, takes quality stringently. This quality is assured through the Senate of the University and we give them a chance to do their work. That is exactly what we do; we do not interfere with academic processes at the University. So they are doing their work and we are also waiting to be advised about where they are on this issue.
The University of Zimbabwe, the Government of Zimbabwe and I am sure the Parliament of Zimbabwe is committed to quality education, and that we cannot compromise on any issue especially if a medical student says, ‘I am not ready’, we take that very seriously. That is why the University sided with the students to say okay, you are not ready, we are not ready. So, this is a very clear matter, an academic matter which is in academic hands and we are in the process of waiting for the academic process at the earliest possible time. I thank you.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I think the Hon. Minister Prof. Murwira, with all due respect, was clever enough to run away from the nitty gritties which is the background of the matter. He is not mentioning the reason why students were not ready for the examinations. It is not like the students refused to write examinations; they were in their final year, imagine 5 years being at university studying medicine, then in your final year, you just decide you do not want to write an examination – that is not possible. The Minister is missing a point. They were not ready because they were incapacitated for 12 weeks when the senior doctors who were supposed to be supervising them were demonstrating because of the conditions in the health sector and the Minister is not addressing that point.
Hon. Speaker, demonstration or protest is a fundamental right that is articulated in our Constitution, in Section 59. So the students had a right to be demonstrating but now, the students went to court and were granted the permission of not writing the exams because they were not ready, that is number one. This happened in August 2019.
What I want to address is that when this happened, the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, together with the University administration took those fourth year students and jumped them over to fifth year as a way of managing the gap that was there. After writing the examinations in November and December, those fifth year students were supposed to be deployed in hospitals. So instead of doing that the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education went on to take the students who were in the fourth year and jumped them over and now they are the ones who are in the fifth year.
Without also due diligence, the Hon. Minister is talking about the quality of education – how then do you talk about quality of education when you are taking a fourth year student who was also affected and did not even write their examinations. You took them over to the fifth year – what is quality. The Minster is not addressing the fundamental issues here.
Secondly, we are in March, 2020, this incident happened in August 2019, definitely if the Ministry had students at heart, by now they should have a decision on what is supposed to happen to these students. For me as a Member of Parliament, I also represent students as our constituents, as students they are our constituents and we are concerned about them. I am saying he is concerned about the quality but what is going to happen to these students who have spent five years in their academic field and only today to be barred from attending lectures and writing their examinations because they were protesting.
Hon. Speaker, when I raised this question last week, I was looking at the time frame, these student doctors have been learning for the past five years, they need to finish their exams, it was not up to them, it was not an option but it was the crisis in the country. The crises that we have in this country, right now, there are no doctors and these students are supposed to be deployed in the hospitals.
As I conclude, the request for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education was obviously to talk on the issue of quality. Why did the Ministry make the fourth year students to jump over to fifth year without due diligence, without the quality that he is referring to.
The second issue is on the issue of time frame – for how long are these fifth year medical students who were supposed to graduate last year in November/December going to wait. How long are they going to wait for their issue to be addressed, these are the students who have spent five years at school. We want this issue to be addressed, we are not here to play, we are here for business and we will bite the Minister if he does not act.
HON. SARUWAKA: The Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education in his presentation referred a lot about the quality of the product we produce at our universities and he was saying he could not force the students to write because of quality issues. So, is the quality determined by the students or the quality is determined by the examiner? If the students are not ready and the examiner wants them to write does that mean that if they write the examiner is just to make them pass or through assessing the quality the examiner will fail them if they do not meet the quality.
The Minister was referring a lot of students stating that they were not yet ready. Is the Minister at liberty to advise this House the issues with regards to students not being ready? Are they so concerned by the welfare of the children that when they say we are not ready, they just say okay come when you are ready. What are the issues? The Minister must speak to the issues why the students were saying they were not yet ready.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I also want to raise some areas for clarity from the Hon. Minister. I was one of the Members who were tasked by the Committee on Higher and Tertiary
Education to go and find out what was happening last year in December. What we discovered was that not only fifth year students were affected, but the whole School of Health Sciences was affected.
Students who are in their second years would be expected to conduct their lessons on bed side, meaning that they are supposed to be studying conditions of patients. So because of the strikes that were going on, on the side of senior doctors, they were not able now to do those bed side tutorials. This is why the students said because we were not able to do the 11 to 12 weeks bed side tutorial, we cannot be able to write examinations.
We also managed to consult the Dean and other authorities at the Parirenyatwa Health Sciences School. They said the other problem was they had about five or four courses they were supposed to conduct on bed side tutorials, now they do those in rotations. So you would find a situation where one student who was in fourth year had conducted only two and was left with other two rotations. They were saying if we go on with the examinations we are only going to write two rotations. If we write two rotations we are not going to get the certificates of having completed the degree. So they were saying we cannot write now and then we come back and write the following year. The question now is, when they were going to write two rotations in December, who was also going to incur the costs of finishing the other rotations?
The other issue now is, as the strike by doctors continued they were not taking new patients, meaning those who were conducting bed side tutorial were not able to get new experiences because they continued studying the old patients without being exposed to other circumstances for them to have the practical experience for us also as a nation to be happy with the quality that is being produced. It was going to be dangerous to the patients because they would have been exposed just to limited experiences. So they had those problems.
We also had other complications because we were going to have now first year up to sixth year students, meaning the universities were going to be constrained in terms of capacity. They were going to be constrained in terms of accommodation and in terms also of the available teachers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you conclude please.
HON. HAMAUSWA: What we also want to know from the Hon. Minister is, why the Ministry took so long to provide a lasting solution to this crisis because at the moment, the crisis might continue and we might end up having a seventh year medical treatment which becomes very complicated. The issue is, we are in March and the Minister is still waiting for the way forward from the university.
As much as the University Senate is independent in deciding when and how the students should write the exams, the Constitution clearly says, all institutions including the lowest level are accountable to Parliament. This is the accountability that we are expecting the Minister to make sure that the universities are accountable to Parliament so that we uphold the Constitution. Also, we want to know from the Hon. Minister when are we going to know the condition and the way forward of students, not only the fifth year but also those who are in second year onwards? Has the situation improved, is Parirenyatwa Hospital taking new patients such that our students are now satisfied that when the time arrives to write the examinations they would have learnt something that is really convincing?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you
conclude.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I am finishing – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you
have been heard. Let others contribute.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I am left with just one thing. I am wrapping up. Thank you Hon. Speaker – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is making another presentation.] - No, I am not presenting. I am not the Minister yet. My last issue, is when we consulted the Dean he was saying the lag time between learning and writing examinations can also affect the results. So when they are going to write examinations after March or end of March, what is going to happen to the things that they learnt last year? Are they going to repeat – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - No, the students have raised their concerns.
We want to know what is going to happen to ensure quality.
HON. ZENGEYA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I have got only two questions to the Minister. My first question is, Hon. Minister, who is then going to incur the costs, the schools fees considering the prolonged period that the students are going to be at school? Why am I saying so is due to the economic constraints that we are facing as a country?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. You are
supposed to find out; you are trying to follow up. Do not lecture, just ask your questions and that is all.
HON. ZENGEYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me go straight to my point. I have got two questions that I asked. I said, who is going to incur the payment of the school fees considering the prolonged period that those students are going to be at school. Secondly, considering the continuous strike that is going on by the doctors, who is going to do the monitoring or evaluation of the students while they are taking their studies? I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I just want to plead with this House to provide the leadership that is…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you find out from the
Minister. Members are not supposed to lecture here. You are supposed to seek clarity.
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Minister, I want to seek clarity on whether this particular Senate that you said makes supreme decisions at the university is not punishing students for following stipulated dispute resolution mechanisms because what I see is, they followed an architecture that this House has prescribed. The High Court is a court for all and then given the fact that the same Senate has proven to be vindictive, Minister, as a political accounting officer and a whole professor for that matter that we have faith in, are you not going to come up with a sunset decision to say on this particular date the students must sit for their examinations without fail?
I do not envy you for your job Hon. Minister, but I just want to clarify one thing. It is a clarification please.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: But do not debate please.
HON. NDEBELE: I want to check with you because I have not been following. Is this a fresh Senate or it is the same Senate of old rat fast tread – the PhD for the former First Lady – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I want to know. I have every right to know because that has an impact on quality. You spoke about quality. You raised the quality cap.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member can you address
the Chair.
HON. NDEBELE: Is this the same Senate that granted Grace
Mugabe a PhD without writing a thesis?
HON. TSUNGA: This is very serious matter and it is not a laughing matter at all. We must be seen to be serious….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member can you seek
clarification please.
HON. TSUNGA: But this background is very important.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Just seek clarification. Do not debate anything.
HON. TSUNGA: It does not look like some people are taking this matter seriously. Nonetheless, this is a huge problem whose magnitude has far reaching consequences. I think it is also more traumatic on the part of the students, institute and the part of parents whose children ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your clarification
Hon. Member?
HON. TSUNGA: Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir. May I ask a few pertinent questions? The first one is, we need to how many students have been impacted by this problem so that we appreciate the magnitude of the problem.
As my colleagues have already indicated, the Hon. Minister has to be clear as to the reasons why the students were unable to be examined in the first instance because that was not mentioned in the Minister’s statement.
Thirdly, what is the time horizon when we can expect to have the students finally sit for their examinations? When are we going to have those conditions that in the first instance made it impossible for the students to write?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, do not repeat
what has already been said.
HON. TSUNGA: Finally Mr. Speaker Sir, we want to know whether this has happened before and how it has been tackled before or it is the first time that it is happening. If it is the first time it is happening, it is an indicator of serious maladministration on the part of those concerned.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: I really wish to thank the hon. members for asking those questions for clarification.
The students went for a court process and they were given their justice according to the Constitution so no law was broken. Absolutely, no law was broken. A student comes and says I do not want to write then you say yes you cannot write. The issue is, we should always stick to due process and not invoke emotions for no reason. We are then having to say what happens to the parents – these are adults who made decisions – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaaah!] – Yes – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - My duty as the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education is to make sure that higher education runs properly and that all students are treated properly and make sure that all students are given a chance to write their examinations when they are ready to do so. There is no policy which forces the student to write examinations.
You cannot do that because it has an impact on quality.
If they were calculating a certain route, I do not know of that route but it looks like it failed. Let me also be very clear that there is no Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education who do not do things in the interests of higher and tertiary education or individuals – in the interest of higher and tertiary education that produces good doctors. It basically means that we have to stick to academic rules and academic freedom.
That is why the Constitution talks about academic freedom.
There is nobody except a professor of medicine who can say this is good or this is bad. Only the professor of medicine will tell us that they are ready. This is not a political or social process but an academic process – [Hear, hear.] - Therefore, it means that….
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – My point of order is that there is a danger that the Hon. Minister might mislead this House – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please!
HON. HAMAUSWA: There is a procedure that has to be followed – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There are a number of hours – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member may you sit down.
HON. HAMAUSWA: No, no. Hon. Speaker it is unfair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have ruled.
HON. HAMAUSWA: No, no. It is unfair – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Hon. Speaker, the academic matters are left to the academic authority and therefore we respect the academic authority – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. HAMAUSWA: No, no. It is unfair – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – There is one thing that I have to explain.– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There are number of hours each university works over – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There are a number of hours expected by a student before they write examinations….
THE TEMPORARY CHAIR: Hon. Member please respect the
Chair. Go and sit down – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. HAMAUSWA: No. Hon. Speaker! - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – I want to explain something that is very important – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Why should I sit? Why? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order,
order Hon. Mliswa may you sit down please? I want to make a ruling on this matter.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to say that the way the Hon. Members of Parliament are arguing shows that there is so much vigour in this; I wish they addressed their entire wealth to the way that they are arguing now. I do not think that we would be poor at all.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members.
I had asked the Hon. Member to sit down because he was out of order. Then I wanted to call him back, Hon. Member may you continue with your debate and Hon. Members do not make noise.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was saying
there are a number of contact hours that are expected for learners to go through before they sit for examinations. I also explained that they were supposed to do bedside tutorials which are four rotations and the students have done just two. So, there is no politicking that is going on but the students were saying that they have not completed the expected contact hours. By forcing them to sit for examinations without having completed the contact hours was tantamount to affecting the quality of education – that is my point.
My plea is that the Hon. Minister should not mislead this Hon.
House.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker
and I wish to thank Hon. Hamauswa for the clarification which exactly agrees with what we said. We never force anybody to write an examination – never, it is never done. I am a full professor and in my professional career, I can tell you that I am the highest academic authority in my discipline and we never force students to write examinations.
Therefore, in good time after following up …
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Speaker, these are national issues. The Hon. Minister does not have to be emotional – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You need to calm down; the amount of emotion that you are exhibiting shows us that you made that decision.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am just
passionate with education. I am very passionate and I want to tell you that I am very happy to be able to answer all these questions from Hon. Members because they help us to explain a situation. So, we do not take those questions for granted, they are very important questions.
So, Hon. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndebele, order please! I have another Minister who has a statement please, may we proceed with speed.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: So, basically Hon. Speaker, I really agree with the Hon. Members that this is a very important matter. It is so important that you cannot force a student to write – never, it is a matter of rights. The timetable is going to be set by Senate as the academic authority of the university. The students were never expelled – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – They were never expelled, they are our registered students and they are going to write when Senate decides that it is the right time for them to write – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. I think the issue here is not about the Hon. Minister forcing the students or not but it is the circumstance. The Hon. Minister is hiding behind a finger. He is not explaining to this House why the students refused to write the examinations; why the students were not ready to be writing the examinations. That is number one.
Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Minister is stating that the Senate will set a day to write the examinations. Hon. Speaker, right now the students that we are referring to are at home. They still require the 12 weeks lectures – who is addressing that? Which examinations are they going to be set for when the students are still at home? They are not attending any lectures and they are not attending any practicals. So how are they going to examine them? This is the same problem that we have, can the students return to school and learn then they can set examinations for them. This is the point and the Hon. Minister is not addressing any point here. We need the students to return to school and you then set examinations Hon. Minister – address the background!
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Hon. Speaker, whatever the
background is, the students were not ready to write. We are therefore, going to address all the conditions that were supposed to be there according to the students’ letter. These things do not take one day but at the same time we are saying, higher and tertiary education first and foremost students need to be disciplined.
Therefore, Senate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It is also our right to determine. Therefore, if they are not yet ready to write – they will not write. They will write when they are ready and they are not expelled at all. They are our students and we want them to be at university. I want to answer to a question that said, ‘We skipped fourth year’. No, they completed their fourth year and are proceeding to fifth year. We cannot block them because they did not boycott any class. Therefore, we cannot disadvantage them, if there was a strategy to block the stream of students – it cannot be blocked. This country is more important than individuals. We agreed with the students that they were not ready to write. So they did not write, I do not know where the problem is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Absolute academic authority is with the University Senate and that is it. If I interfere with it, I am interfering with the academic process – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No point of order.
HON. NDEBELE: There is something I want addressed immediately, on a point of order. Minister, you cannot say the academic freedom lies with the University Senate when you instructed all universities in this country not to have a February intake. You have personally instructed that February intake is banned, so where is academic freedom now. Universities are not going to have February intake throughout the country, where is the academic freedom? Your children go to outside universities and our children are forced to take gap years here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I will ask you
to go out. That is out of order. Hon. Minister, can you proceed?
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Mr. Speaker, I go back to the issue of our students. We will make sure that we will make conditions right for our students to start writing but we cannot push on issues of quality. The conditions are set by Senate, period. That is it. We are going to respect academic freedom and no political interference at universities, let senate do whatever they do. I urge Hon. Members to know that universities on academic matters operate independently. This Minister stands for academic freedom. The Chancellor who is Dr. E. D.
Mnangagwa stands for that academic freedom – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members please.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: When academic freedom beats you
back, you will agree. Academic freedom is hitting back. That is what it is doing. These are the results of the academic freedom, it hits you back. Let Professors do professors’ work.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
MEASURES TO CURB THE HIGH COST OF DATA BUNDLES
AND ALLEGED DATA DISAPPEARANCE
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
MUSWERE): Thank you Mr. Speaker. This is a Ministerial Statement on measures to curb the high cost of data bundles and alleged data disappearance – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – To begin with, all tariffs in Zimbabwe both wholesale and retail are regulated. In regulating tariffs, POTRAZ uses the cost based principle which is the most objective criteria for determining tariffs. Accordingly, as a way of curbing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ZENGEYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. It seems there is no quorum in the House.
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE TEMPORARY. SPEAKER adjourned the House
without question put at a Quarter past Six O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Chibagu, G.; Hon. Chipato, A.; Hon. Chitura, L.; Hon. Dzepasi. G.; Hon. Dzuma, S.; Hon. Gandawa,M.A.; Hon. Gwanetsa,
K.K.; Hon. Karumazondo, M.T.; Hon. Khumalo, S.S.; Hon. Maboyi,
R.M.; Hon. Machingauta, C.; Hon. Madhuku, J.; Hon. Madiwa, C.; Hon.
Madziva, S.; Hon. Makoni, R.R.; Hon. Maronge, C.; Hon. Masango,
C.P.; Hon. Masenda, N.T.; Hon. Mavetera, T.A.; Hon. Mayihlome, L.;
Hon. Mguni, H.; Hon. Mguni, S.K.; Hon. Mhona, F.T; Hon. Mkandla,
M.; Hon. Mkaratigwa, E.; Hon. Mliswa, M.T.; Hon. Mliswa, T.P.; Hon.
Moyo Priscilla; Hon. Mpofu, A.; Hon. Muchimwe, P.T.; Hon. Munetsi, J.; Hon. Murambiwa, O.; Hon. Murire, J.; Hon. Musiyiwa, R.; Hon. Muswere, J.; Hon. Mutambisi, C.; Hon. Mutodi, E.; Hon. Mutomba, W.; Hon. Mutseyami, C.P.; Hon. Ncube, E.; Hon. Ncube Ophar; Hon.
Ndiweni, D.; Hon. Ndlovu, N.; Hon. Nduna, D.T.; Hon. Nguluvhe, A.;
Hon. Nhambo, F.; Hon. Nhari, V.; Hon. Nkani, A.; Hon. Nkomo, M.; Hon. Nyabote, R.; Hon. Dr. Nyashanu, M.; Hon. Nyere, C.; Hon.
Paradza, K.; Hon. Raidza, M.; Hon. Rungani, A.; Hon. Saizi, T.; Hon.
Samson, A.; Hon. Shirichena, E.; Hon. Singo.L.; Hon. Sithole Josiah; Hon. Svuure, D.; Hon. Tsuura, N.; Hon. Tungamirai, T.; Hon. Zengeya, V.M.; Hon. Zhou, P.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 4th March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 5 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until all the
Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN MKHWEBU: I move that Order of the Day, Numbers
7 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWEAN DELEGATION BILATERAL
VISIT TO CUBA
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwean Delegation to the Bilateral Visit to Havana, Cuba.
Question again proposed.
*HON.SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to contribute on this motion that pertains to the delegation that went to Cuba who represented us well. I would like to thank that country, Cuba. First of all, I would like to thank the leadership that went to Cuba to see what other countries are doing and copy. I would like to thank in a special way Madam President for the splendid job she did in that country.
As a country, if only we could imitate what other countries do. I would like very much to appreciate the gender issue. They respect and honour women in that country and I would like to thank Cuba for that.
They have three female Vice Presidents.
The other thing that I would want to add Mr. President is that I
want to request this Hon. House, that at least when you travel please include the visually impaired. There are Nigerian dramas where we see chiefs and kings who travel with their delegations who just go there to listen. They are not blind but they will be learning and that is very important to us women. At least once when you do some activities, please include those who are looked down upon so that they are able to come back and perform something.
What Madam President did is very important, which means we should all learn from that lesson so that at least when there are other things that may not go well with us women are able to cover up. When they reached Cuba, they discovered that the ambassador was not well and they paid rent for him and he is now staying in peace. We can also learn and see what other countries are doing in terms of honouring their women because some of the people do not see that we are blind. They think we have vision, that is why they send us to represent them. So that is very important for you to respect women like what Cuba has done.
If only the Upper House, the Senate would know the importance of women. We are very fortunate to have in our midst chiefs who know the importance of women. If only we could go ahead and imitate the positive things being done by other countries. Cuba may not even have considered what we do as separate entities but when we are here to build the country. Cuba may not have considered that there are different political parties but they took and respected all the women in that country. If only our country could imitate such a good deed. With those few words, I would like to thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to also contribute and add my words of gratitude. I realise that all the people who stood before me were thanking Madam President and thought I had been left behind. First and foremost, I also would like to thank Madam President of the Senate for a job well done when she represented us. That is what we call leadership. She represented us well on difficult issues, some of which were even embarrassing to the country. Imagine when the embassy is closing down yet you are going there to visit and you are told the embassy has been closed. It is the same as visiting your relative and you are told your relative has relocated.
How would you feel? I would like to thank Madam President very much. I am not sure if this hon. House allows us to clap our hands in gratitude. If we are allowed, I would ask the House to do that because what she did is in the report. I really appreciate what she did. If only we could have such leaders in this country, our country would progress well.
Secondly, I would like to applaud Cuba for welcoming us. We know that Cuba helped us a lot especially in the education sector. Some people may not even know and were questioning what Cubans were looking for in this country, complaining that they were here to take our jobs in the health and education sector but they promoted those sectors very well because the education sector as well as doctors took up from there.
I would like to reiterate the importance of the Cubans. I have my last born child and I do not want to mention the name. The mother fell ill when she was 3 months 28 days pregnant. Then she went to the hospital. Women know those things that rupture during delivery. The doctors would come, examine and say the fetus is not moving; not knowing that the fetus is somewhere hiding. A Cuban doctor came and asked what was happening. The nurses were even laughing. The doctor asked in Spanish why they were laughing and they responded that the woman is very old and can no longer carry a baby. I do not know what the doctor did but the child came out crying. The baby was placed in an incubator. The child survived but it was because of that Cuban doctor. So, I really appreciate them very much for coming to this country and they continue helping us. Each time I see my child I say, it is because of the Cuban.
In addition I would like to say, we were told that they were supposed to visit ten other countries besides Cuba but they failed because there are no resources to do that. Those countries have a lot of things that we need as a country. We cry out and say Zimbabwe is open for business, yet there are ten countries that are locked out because there is no communication. Such countries may have good things that we need. We hear that such things are happening.
We also heard that in Cuba they compiled a list of names that are kept in museums. They wrote various names including liberation fighters and some of them Zimbabweans. What really touched me is that there is a name of an icon that they honour. They really honour that name but in this country, we have over 40 years of independence yet we do not know a specific icon. If that name exists, probably the name is kept at a headquarters of one party. We hear from other countries that such a person did an honourable job for this country. I hereby request that such information be availed. Each time we go out, we see the names of liberators on the walls of their parliaments. That is a good thing. I spend time looking at those names. If a foreigner comes here, they would really appreciate that. They would say indeed we went to Parliament and saw various names and pictures of heroes of that country.
In addition, that should not only be done on deceased people. For example, the Deputy President of Senate, Rtd. Ltd. Gen. Nyambuya is well known for participating in the liberation struggle. If we were to see his picture here, is that not interesting? You only want to honour someone posthumously? As I speak, I am sure there are people who have written my biography and are waiting for me to die so that they reveal such information. Let us reveal all the heroic actions that people did whilst they are still alive so that even our children can honour us.
That would be very good for us.
I would like to add on and say, some of the people who died during the liberation struggle died in Mozambique. Some of their names are there. Here, we do not see their names at the heroes acre. If we were to see Morgan Femai’s name at the heroes acre you are attacked. Let us see those names openly. They should not go to a certain party. Such information is in the open and those are national issues. People should have access to information of national importance. If I were to try to go to the heroes acre I am attacked. This is true because I have gone there.
What is happening in Cuba is an eye opener for all of us that Government should honour and separate national issues so that information is accessible to everyone, be it the blind where they can use braille to read the names of both living and fallen heroes - that will be very good.
I would like to add on and say I am the HIV and AIDS Portfolio
Committee Chairman. The Cuban health centres are far much ahead in treating diabetes, HIV/AIDS and hepatitis. I thought if only I was able to go there, I was going to acquire information to empower my Committee with so that we may have solutions and suggestions to people living
HIV/AIDS. That is the aim of our Committee so that people living with HIV/AIDS will live long. So, if a country like Cuba is able to do that and we know that we have very good relations with Cuba; why not request medicines from them so that our people can have better lives. We come and cry about sanctions yet it is us who have problems. Why do we fail to relate with someone whom we have good relations with? Why can we not we request for medicines that cure HIV/AIDS and diabetes yet we come back here and cry that we are under sanctions? Why do we not use that as an option? Is our outcry for sanctions genuine when we have other options like that that can help our country to develop?
In conclusion, I would like to say if only we can be united and do away with political differences when we are in this Senate so that we build this country because this country cannot be built by outsiders. It can only be built by people who are in here and united. I would like to give you an example so that you see how it works. Here in Senate we are divided by political parties but if we go to our villages of origin, we are all under one village head regardless of political affiliation. How does it work very well when it comes to chiefs yet it fails to work here in
Parliament? So, we are ignoring something that can work out very well. As Hon. Senators, let us be united; we will not have another Senate like this one in Heaven. When we die, we go to heaven as individual souls, so it is better for us to unite whilst on earth; there will not be another opportunity. It is better for us to unite here so that we build our country. If I make a mistake, go ahead and tell me and if I suggest something to the President here in Senate, go ahead and tell him - those who have access to speak to him instead of insulting me. With those few words, I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to add on to this debate. Allow me to thank the delegation especially the Hon. President of the Senate who led the delegation that went to Cuba. Indeed the delegation that went there should accept our gratitude for representing us well. Cuba is one of the countries that is friendly to Zimbabwe. We have a long standing relationship and we continue to be united with them. Zimbabwe is known for celebrating Cuba for their health and education.
Those are some of the well known professionals that we know. Some of our children would go to Cuba for three or four years to further their education. When they come back, they become professionals and become just like Cubans because our young kids learn quickly. They are very much advanced in technology, tourism and manufacturing and they are professionals. The delegation that went there was shown a lot of places which means that there is a lot of development going on. I would like to thank our Cuban Ambassador who went to help the delegation. He showed them several other places in Cuba. We know that they have challenges just like any other country. The Ambassador faces some challenges but the most important thing is that the Ambassador talked to the head of the delegation Hon. President of the Senate.
If you see leaders going where there are problems, they want to discuss ways of solving those problems. I would like to thank the Hon. President of the Senate for taking it upon herself to solve all those issues there instead of waiting to come back. We also know that those are places that were not liked by the British and the Americans but because of their intelligence, I realise that more than 22 000 were taken into that country through slave trade. Slave trade was very painful in West Africa. They used to force people, drag them like cattle and at the end of the day, they found where they can hide and they were kept well. That is a country that fought for their liberation and uplifted their lives. So, I really appreciate the lessons that they got from there, they are also under sanctions but they stood against the odds of the sanctions and they continued to fight. They now have industries and other things and are now advanced. They now make HIV and AIDS medicines, they also cure diabetes. They want to continue having good relations with
Zimbabwe and they are ready to provide all the other medicines that Zimbabwe needs. So, I really would like to appreciate that because these are very good friends of ours. We also discovered that in those countries, they are other women and men who fought for their liberation just like us. If you were to visit their Ministry of Home Affairs, you are able to see or know all the liberation heroes who participated in the liberation struggle. They have a museum where you get all the information of the liberation heroes.
The Cubans showed us that they are friends to Africa. All the Africans that fought in the liberation struggle are honoured there; they dedicated a special place where there is information on everything in Africa. They know better the history of Zimbabwe, they have detailed information about our provinces that some of us may not even know.
We also got to a place where we heard that women united with men and just like in this country, women outnumber men in population. However, women have more seats and that should be emulated here. In our history, there was a time where one white man would vote and their votes were equivalent to 20 black votes. So we used to have slogans like
‘freedom now!’ – We would respond now, now! We would say ‘oneman, one-vote!’. Now, where have we put our women? When you are oppressed, even your brains will also not function properly. We were supposed to say, one-man, one-woman, one-vote!
Sometimes women would not have access to identity cards. How were they identified then? Therefore, I would like to say women should be respected and honoured. I would also like to say to women, go on, united as one and go ahead and represent us well wherever you may go. Cuba has 73% women in leadership positions, which is very good. This means there is no outcry like what we have here. So, women continue like that way so that as men, we would appreciate your status.
However, the problem that you have as women is that there are presidents and ministers amongst you but unfortunately, you cannot unite on your own to support one of your own. Instead, you oppose each other.
Therefore, I would like to encourage women on that note. I would like to thank the President of the Senate who led the delegation. The Eighth Parliament was also presided over by a woman. So, women should really celebrate and dedicate a day to celebrate that. It is a good thing for you women because one of your own has a leadership position. The President of this country, His Excellency, E.D Mnangagwa really appreciates empowerment of women. Women, continue to be united and this country allows you to congregate as women, whatever you come up with in your meetings should be accepted even by the
Government. We also encourage you, not only in the Senate but also the National Assembly. Unite! Do not imitate what I have seen sometime happening that when one of your own gets a leadership position, you pull her down. You must not pull them down. I really appreciate what happened in Cuba and let us emulate how they promote women.
The Upper House of Cuba constitutes a number of women and it is the same here. So, as a country, let us unite as one, both women and men. We need to keep reminding each other that as a Senate, just like what the previous speaker said, we are also an arm of the Government. There is no information that you may not have access to. You have that information. In Cuba, there is a neutral place where you can get access to information for example, if you want information about heroes. So, let us all unite and stand as one in this country knowing we have got one President who is His Excellency E.D Mnangagwa whom we should appreciate and look up to.
I would like to conclude by thanking you very much for giving me this opportunity to say these few words. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President. Allow me to thank the mover of this report, Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa for bringing this report to the Senate so that we learn and share the experience of these two great nations.
Among the reports and visits we have gone through in this august House, I found this visit to Cuba as very pertinent and relevant to the people of Zimbabwe for the following reasons:-I think Cuba has gone through the same history and suffering like what Zimbabwe is experiencing. Cuba was a third world country but as of now, it is middle, if classification was done correctly without bias, it would be categorised as a developed nation.
As Zimbabweans we really need to learn much. This report to me is not just one of the other reports but a very informative and instructive report which will assist as an arm of Government to push and influence development in our country.
I would want to express my dismay at how we bring ourselves down as Zimbabweans. It is very sad that we find our representatives, the ambassadors living in squalid conditions. I think we all know how much contribution Cuba has given to Zimbabwe since independence or in fact pre-independence until to date. I think we have got no excuse. If it took the President of the Senate to at least seek and improve the living environment of our ambassadors, what is the problem with our Ministry of Foreign Affairs? I think we need to take introspection.
The work done by Madam President, I take it from two angles Mr. President. One, that it is possible for us to improve the lives of our diplomats outside and we need to identify important countries which bring business into the country. Zimbabweans, allow me Mr. President and I will not apologies, we are a corrupt people. We only value people who bring in hard currency into our country but if we are to put together what Cuba has contributed to Zimbabwe up to date you would find that it will actually be valued to the tune of multi-billions rather than what we are rushing to get from the so-called other countries.
I think the embassy in Cuba is a very strategic embassy which should be given due respect and care and supported because it has done a lot for Zimbabwe. Which country has produced teachers which has actually educated the whole country like Cuba? I think Mr. President through you, we also learnt from the report that the embassy in Cuba does not only represent Cuba but it also represents 10 other countries or islands in the South American region. To date, our ambassador has failed to exercise his mandate because of the usual problem of resource constraints.
I think it is high time we actually run away or not accept the issue of resource constraints because right now, imagine which country, because before any investor comes to a country you visit the embassy of the said country. When you visit an embassy and find it looks like there is nothing appealing but is derogatory like Magaba, our embassy seems to be like Magaba. Do you think they will bring in their money? You are the highest person in Government who is going to superintend on their investment. I think we need to be serious Mr. President to make sure that it is a reflection. No wonder why you do not expect anyone to respect you as a citizen of Zimbabwe when you give yourself a poor reflection and then you expect other people to have high regard of you, us as a nation.
I think there are very simple things which we can do. First of all, is to improve our image and be able to attract good business. I am sure “vakomana vachinyenga vasikana muroad hapana anomhanyira ane tsvina, vanomhanyira akachena” and that also goes with business. If you go to a country and project an image which shows that we are not organised as a people, how do we then intend to get business. I think the issue of embassy, it is not only restricted to Cuba. I think we have had reports and it is high time we have a proper ministerial response from the Minister of Foreign Affairs. I understand he is a member of us here.
He is a Senator but he has attended very few sessions. I assume he will be doing business for the country but what is he doing when we are being projected in such a picture outside? We need to take concrete steps to say by next year all our ambassadors will live in a dignified manner which is befitting of a country called Zimbabwe because we have got only one Zimbabwe and that is what makes us proud.
I want to quote a few statistics just to emphasise that we have got a lot to learn from Cuba. I will start with the health delivery system of Cuba. Cuba is one of the countries with the greatest or the most advanced health systems in the world and that health system has been developed under the background of serious economic sanctions and embargo, which is much worse than what we say Zimbabwe is under. Cuba has managed to actually come out with a robust world class health delivery system through world health organisation standards.
Cuba is actually one of the countries which has been called number one in terms of health delivery to its people and just to support you, there are statistics. Its infant mortality is 4 per 1000, and Zimbabwe we are at 25. Maternal mortality, I think this is one of the problems which we face as Zimbabwe, our mothers dying from pregnancy associated conditions. Zimbabwe we are sitting at 462 per 1000. Cuba has got 36 HIV prevalence, which is 0,27 and Zimbabwe we are at 13.
I think we can see that there is a marked gap between us and Cuba, which means we have got a lot to learn from what Cuba is doing and so we need to really give importance to this report which was brought in by our colleagues who visited this great country, if I can say Mr. President. But why is Cuba managing to achieve such great strides under the hardest conditions on earth? One of the reasons Mr. President, among many others, I would propose or suggest or think that it is because they are a united people. They are identified as a nation. They are not seen as individuals. They do not pull in opposite directions which is one of the lessons that I think as Zimbabwe we need to learn from the great nation of Cuba.
Right now, all our problems we are facing in Zimbabwe and I do not need to say them because everyone is witnessing it; the reason is even when you try to find a simple answer from our Ministers during Question Time they just say sanctions. Unfortunately, that disease has become an endemic and has gone on to infect ordinary citizens who also when they are asked why we are where we are as Zimbabweans, we say sanctions. I think the lesson from Cuba is a good lesson which tells us and probably for those who doubt that the problem with Zimbabwe is not sanctions but the good governance and corruption, not sanctions because Cuba has managed to achieve a lot. The sooner we realise that as Zimbabweans our problems are not on sanctions but lack of unity of purpose, then we will manage to change the trajectory which our country is taking.
Let us take this as a privilege and an honour to represent the people of Zimbabwe in this august House and we should really make sure that we represent them honourably saying the truth, trying to improve the lives of the people of Zimbabwe. Cuba has managed to put everything correctly, if I can put it that way.
Right now, Zimbabwe is benefiting from doctors from Cuba. One lesson also on the health delivery system of Cuba which we need to learn; we were told within the report that Cuba has got health professionals scattered in 160 countries but their Government knows where they are. They are not lost like Zimbabweans. These are people who are sent by their Government on an official capacity representing Cuba and showcasing the skills of the Cuban people. Zimbabwe invests so much in training our doctors and we chase them away. We know if you go to South Africa, Namibia, UK, Australia and New Zealand, you are attended by Zimbabweans. If you say, do we have a database of how many Zimbabweans are there and what are they bringing into the country, we do not know. So I think this is one of the things which we also need to learn from the great nation of Cuba, of utilising and recognising our intellectual capital.
We pride ourselves as one of the most literate countries in the world. In Africa, we are actually second but we do not seem to be benefiting from that tag. I think it is high time we should really have a database of our professionals and make sure that the FDI will come if this is done correctly rather than to allow our people to jump borders.
Some of them go and change documents.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order.
Your time is about to expire.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you. I will wind up Mr. President. Let me just summarise. One of the most important thing that we learnt from this report is the participation of women in Cuba in the governance of their country. The reason why probably Cuba is doing very good is because there are a lot of women in Government. Women are not corrupt and they have got a heart. I think the sooner we encourage our women in Zimbabwe to participate more in governance issues, it may be the turning point of our country to be the better and greater expected Zimbabwe. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: First of all, I would want to thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate this very important report of the Zimbabwe delegation to Cuba on a bilateral visit from 1st to 6th September. Mr. President, allow me to thank Madam President and her delegation for remembering our friends; our dear brothers and sisters in Cuba. The relationship between Zimbabwe and Cuba started way back during the liberation struggle. It was also interesting Mr. President to note that Zimbabwe and Cuba relations have shifted from the traditional cooperation in education and health to that of the new areas in technology and tourism.
Mr. President, I hope you learnt one or two things in this report as far as tourism industry is concerned. Zimbabwe as a country, we are trying by all means to improve our tourism industry in order to generate more funds towards the fiscus. Cuba and Zimbabwe almost share a similar situation where Cuba is under an embargo affecting various sectors of their economy, which include fuel supplies and unavailability of basic commodities while Zimbabwe is under sanctions and the challenges are almost the same.
Mr. President, it interesting to note according to the report, that despite the challenges, Cuba is managing through their guided socialism and strong leadership of a one party state nation. In Zimbabwe, we are failing to manage because we do not speak with one voice under our multi-party democracy; the main challenge being failure to be united as Zimbabweans.
Mr. President, I would like to say to Madam President of the Senate for showing that she is a mother, she is a mother because when she arrived in Cuba, she took care of our embassy and she also promised to engage the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade on issues that were raised by the ambassador and his staff. From what we hear from the delegation, the problem of unpaid rentals was sorted out but as Parliament, I think we need to engage the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to prioritise the welfare of staff in our embassies throughout the world and make sure that similar problems do not occur.
Again Mr. President, we have to commend our embassy staff for surviving and lifting our flag high under such deplorable conditions.
After visiting a Cuban heritage centre, I do not hear from the delegation comparing it with our own considering that your delegation comprised of our own senior veterans of the struggle. I think you learnt a lot that you would recommend to the highest office, especially the way they respect their heroes. Mr. President, we are told of how the centre for genetic engineering and bio-technology was founded in 1980 to counter the US embargo to produce their medicines locally. For Zimbabwe, there is nothing impossible looking at the highlights. What we need is unity of purpose, stop playing games of blaming each other and take a leaf from their major highlights in the report.
It is pleasing Mr. President, that they are even prepared to assist Zimbabwe and we must learn from the report and from their major highlights how they managed to eradicate some of the diseases. Mr. President, it would be unfair for me to conclude my debate without recognizing how the Cubans have empowered their women and how they have managed to have them in the top decision making positions. The reforms they have embarked on, the 53% representation and the 3 out of 5 women vice presidency is a great achievement. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND HEALTH
FINANCING IN AFRICA
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the Pan African Parliament, High Level Summit on HIV and heath financing in Africa.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MKHWEBU seconded by HON. SEN. MATHUTHU, the Senate adjourned at Fourteen Minutes to Five
O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
All female Hon. Members having sat on the floor
THE HON. SPEAKER: All male Hon. Members take your seats.
HON. KWARAMBA: Mr. Speaker Sir, united as we are across all political divide, through this statement, we have decided as Women Parliamentary Caucus that:
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is signatory to the Beijing
Plus + Declaration; the Convention on the Elimination of all forms of
Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), the SADC Protocol on Gender and
Development which have been ratified by Parliament.
WHEREAS Section 16 (56) (78) (79) and (80) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provide for gender provisions; we the Zimbabwe Women
Parliamentary Caucus;
NOTING the commemoration of ‘She Decides’, celebrated on 2nd
March and the International Women’s Day celebrated on 8th March,
2020, under the theme ‘I am generation equality’ realising women’s rights, which mark the 25th anniversary of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action.
DEEPLY CONCERNED that there is regression in the implementation of CEDAW and the Beijing Plus + 25 Declaration in the areas of
- Gender based violence which is on the increase;
- Passion killings that are the order of the day;
- Sexual harassment and abuse of women and girls in the work places and public spaces.
WORRIED about the deterioration in the health sector and its impact on access to maternal health care including legal safe abortions;
WORRIED about the state of preparedness in the face of coronavirus that has ravaged citizens globally and other noncommunicable diseases; lack of supportive infrastructure for female Parliamentarians seeking child care services and lactation facilities.
GRAVELY DISTURBED about the machete gang attacks on both men and women, girls and boys and of particular concern is the sexual abuse of elderly women, 80 years and above, subjecting them not only to rape but also murder.
NOW THEREFORE in line with the Beijing + 25 Declaration, which is the theme for CSW 64, with its key 12 Critical Areas, call upon the Government to;
- enact an enabling environment for teenagers to decide, access reproductive services and to safe abortion in line with Critical
Area 3 and 12 on women and health and the girl child.
- Increase funding towards the health sector, especially maternal health and reproductive health as well as child mortality and access to cancer services in line with Critical Area 3 on women and health.
- To equip relevant stakeholders that deal with gender based violence with adequate financial and human resources; police, health sector, traditional healers and church leaders in line with Critical Area 4, on violence against women.
- Fully empower the rural women in line with Critical Area 1 and 6 on women and poverty and women and the economy.
- Call upon Parliament of Zimbabwe to expedite the implementation of the institutional gender policy which provides for institutional mechanisms to deal with sexual harassment and violence against women in line with Critical Area 8 on institutional mechanisms.
This is our humble submission as the Zimbabwe Women
Parliamentary Caucus. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. -[Ululations] - THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I would like to thank the Hon. Kwaramba and the Caucus for their statement and also indicate that the male Hon. Members of Parliament, I want to believe, do support this statement fully. As this is a very important statement, a statement that refers to motherhood and the principal importance of motherhood; it is suggested from the Chair that perhaps a motion be tabled so that the august House, perhaps in the National Assembly and in the Senate, debate the motion accordingly in order to reinforce the message that has been delivered through Hon. Kwaramba on behalf of the Women’s Caucus. Thank you for your peaceful demonstration in the House.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for your
support.
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I recognise the presence in the
Speaker’s Gallery of officers from the Parliament of Namibia. Thank you. You are welcome.
ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that there will be a Roman Catholic Church service tomorrow Wednesday, 4th March, 2020 at 12.30 p.m. in the Senate Chamber. All Catholic and non-Catholic members are invited accordingly.
THE HON. SPEAKER’S RULING
POINTS OF ORDER RAISED BY THE HON. T. MLISWA AND
HON. MAYIHLOME
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to make the following ruling. It is the ruling on points of order raised by the Hon. Mliswa on 19th
February, 2020 and the Hon. Mayihlome on 27th February, 2020.
On Wednesday, 19th February, 2020 Hon. Mliswa rose on a point of order and alleged that Hon. Chikwinya, during a contribution by Hon.
Kwaramba, had uttered the following words, ‘yes, we must know the condition of Coronavirus because the Vice President…’
Hon. Mliswa further stated that the implication of Hon.
Chikwinya’s alleged interjection was that the Hon. Vice President had brought the Coronavirus into Zimbabwe. Hon. Mliswa demanded that Hon. Chikwinya must withdraw the statement which was disrespectful of the Hon. Vice President. The Hon. Chikwinya vehemently denied having uttered the offensive words, prompting the Chair to rule that a determination would be made after reference to the Hansard recording of the day’s proceedings.
On 27th February, 2020 the Hon. Mayihlome alleged that the Hon. Biti had insulted him by calling him a fascist. Hon. Biti denied the allegations, prompting the Chair to rule that whenever there is a contestation of what has been said or might have been said, the House refers to the Hansard for affirmation or otherwise.
The Chair has since referred to the Hansard of the days in question, as well as audio recordings of the same in order to ascertain what transpired. After listening to the audio recordings, the Chair concluded that in both instances the interjections were inaudible.
Consequently, the two Hon. Members will be given the benefit of the doubt. However going forward, the Chair strongly warns Hon. Members who are in the habit of molesting or insulting other Hon. Members in the hope that their offensive words will not be picked up by our audio recording machines that they risk heavy penalties being imposed on them for their misdemeanors, in line with the provisions of the Standing Rules and Orders. Please be guided accordingly.
HON. BITI: I rise on a matter of privilege in terms of the esteemed Standing Orders of our august House. I do so in my capacity as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee.
There are 14 forensic audits that have been conducted by the Auditor-General since 2016 connected with various State owned enterprises which have been concluded but have not been tabled before the august House as required by the Constitution and the law. As a Committee, we have written several letters including letters that were written in the previous Parliament, to the concerned Ministers but they have not responded.
Hon. Speaker, we pray for a ruling placing in mora and on notice the concerned Ministers. With your permission, if I may outline the reports; Forensic Audit Report for Air Zimbabwe, ZESA, Net One,
POSB, NRZ, 2 for ZIMRA which are outstanding; one of them is on ICT and the other is a general forensic report. There is a forensic audit for Allied Timbers formerly known as Forestry Commission. There is an audit of the CSC, Grain Marketing Board, African Union Region 5 Youth Games that is still outstanding, the Ministry of Local Government in respect of Augur Investments and the improvement on the Harare Airport road that is still outstanding.
With your permission Hon. Speaker, we kindly ask that the esteemed responsible Ministers be placed on notice vis-a-vis the tabling of these reports. I thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, I will proceed to engage the Clerk of Parliament to check on our records. If indeed those reports have not been tabled before this House, definitely this is a violation of the Constitution in terms of Section 107 (2) and also it is a violation in terms of the Audit Act Sections 10, 11 and 12.
Hon. Gonese whispering to an Hon. Member sitting besides Hon.
Biti.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, Hon. Gonese, I am
responding to Hon. Biti. He needs to listen.
HON. BITI: I am listening Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: They are diverting your attention. We will ensure that these reports are so tabled before this august House during this Second Session of our 9th Parliament.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I stand on a matter of privilege and on behalf of APNAC (African Parliamentary Network Against Corruption), the Zimbabwe Chapter.
Noting that Section 198 of the Constitution provides that there should be measures that are taken to create codes of conduct that are observed by public officers and noting that Members of Parliament are themselves public officers;
Further noting that in our Standing Orders, Rule No. 49 provides that every member shall register all his or financial interests in a book to be maintained under the direction of the Speaker or the President of the
Senate and that such registration shall be in a manner specified in the Code of Conduct and Ethics for Members of Parliament.
Recognising that Section 21 of the Code of Conduct and Ethics for Members of Parliament requires Members of Parliament to declare their assets within 30 days of having been sworn in; realising that having seen that Members had failed to do so within 30 days, you did grant an extension. However, concerned that up till now we have Members of Parliament that have not declared their assets and some of those are Ministers, we are therefore calling and urging that this House resolves that a Privileges Committee be established to look into this matter and recommend appropriate penalty. We feel very strongly about this given that the drive against corruption, we as Members of Parliament have to start by being transparent and that this should be the first sign that says we are serious as Members of Parliament and we call upon you Mr. Speaker Sir, that you look into this matter. If you do find that there are those that have violated that particular code and the Standing Rules and Orders that a Privileges Committee be set up and that a penalty therefore be given against those that have not complied. I thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir – [HON. BITI: Inaudible interjection.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Biti, I hope that you are not one of them.
HON. BITI: No, I declared.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Alright. Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, I hear you. I will liaise with the Clerk of Parliament and come up with proper statistics and consider due process of reminding the Hon. Members, inclusive of Ministers, that we give them a deadline; failure of which obviously we will have to establish a Privileges Committee that will then come up with some penalties accordingly, in terms of the
Constitution and our StandingRules and Orders.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Last week,
a question was posed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development in line with students grants, that is the amounts that they are supposed to be given. The grants that were there Mr. Speaker, as the Hon. Minister was speaking he referred to grants when in actual fact he referred to loans and those are the grants that were being referred to. The Hon. Minister stated that these are the same that are there but we have realised that when children coming from poor families approach the banks, they are asked to bring pay slips. When they submit the pay slips, money is supposed to be garnished from the salary of the pay slip owner.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member. Thank you
for the point of order but I think that it can be better dealt with tomorrow by way of a question.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The issue that was there Mr. Speaker is
that the Hon. Minister did not say the truth.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, ask the question
tomorrow during Question Time session so that you get the truth.
HON. MADIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of
privilege is with regards to my fear of how unprepared as an institution and as Parliament we are with regards to the Coronavirus.
Mr. Speaker, if you go all over the Parliament building, you will see that there are no measures being taken in terms of safeguarding the health of Hon. Members and also the staff here at Parliament. There are no masks being given to staff and sanitizers being offered …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say, ‘mass?’
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Masks yes – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – It is everywhere Hon. Members.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of
privilege is that I am just hoping that it can be addressed because for those who are following on the Coronavirus – it is spreading at an alarming rate. Now my fear is that it is not a matter of when but a matter of I think that it is already in Zimbabwe and in Parliament and if you notice how fast it is moving. I think that we will be affected quite severely here Mr. Speaker. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Save!
Save!] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Karenyi – [HON.
KARENYI: Mr. Speaker.] - I think that is a very important observation. We shall address this to the Clerk of Parliament, working together with our Clinic Directorate and see that we have some sanitizers and also ensure that if need be you can wear the mask. More importantly, stop shaking hands too often and wash your hands – that is the message that is coming from the World Health Organisation (WHO). So we need to comply accordingly.
This will also apply to our staff that they take protective measures accordingly.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My
point of privilege arises from the budget that we just passed. You will recall Mr. Speaker when we were in Victoria Falls there was an issue of the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works disbursing funds to local authorities under devolution.
You ruled at that point in time that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi must consult the Attorney-General on whether he is allowed to do that. He has not come up with any response pertaining to their meeting. It is important Mr. Speaker Sir that we practice constitutionalism and any second, minute that goes by without us sticking to this Constitution, we are in violation of it, including this Parliament. At this point in time we are. Section
265 (3) of the Constitution is very clear and I will read it, ‘An Act of Parliament must provide appropriate mechanisms and procedures to facilitate co-ordination between central Government, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities’.
That is not in place and it cannot be delayed for more than a minute. Money is being disbursed from central Government to the suppliers straight away. The provincial councils are supposed to be in place with us Members Parliament sitting on them. If the law is to change, it changes whilst we are practicing the law. We cannot have a situation where they are saying, ‘We do not want Members of Parliament to sit on it’, but on the other hand they are busy disbursing money. It cannot be delayed for more than a second. We are in violation of the Constitution and I stand to say that I took oath to defend and to stand by the Constitution of this country. I do not know why we have allowed that to happen Mr. Speaker Sir. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. I shall personally engage the Attorney-General and see whether we have a meeting of minds in terms of the constitutional provisions and what the issues are so that the question of accountability is maintained.
At the moment, we do not know how these funds are being accounted for and in terms of the Constitution, Section 119, it is Parliament that calls for accountability in terms of Government, its agencies at every level – that is what the Constitution says. So, I will take it upon myself to engage the Attorney-General and report back to you and also have some conversation with the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs accordingly. If there is disagreement, we may have to engage some law faculty and the Law Society of Zimbabwe so that we can find common ground in terms of the interpretation of the Constitution.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 19 has been disposed of.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT
AND TOURISM ON ELEPHANT MANAGEMENT IN HWANGE
AND GONAREZHOU NATIONAL PARKS
HON. P. DUBE: Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environment and Tourism on Elephant Management in Hwange and Gonarezhou National Parks.
HON. CHINANZVAVANA: I second.
HON. P. DUBE: Zimbabwe’s wildlife resources have a great potential to contribute to economic growth in the country. Elephants are critical resources that can contribute to the economic and social wellbeing of the local communities and the nation at large. However, the potential is hampered particularly by elephant management challenges and human-wildlife conflict. The challenges have not only become a conservation crisis but also pose as a danger to human beings. The
Committee resolved to conduct a familiarization visit to Hwange and Gonarezhou National Parks. The visit was compelled by the desire to understand the challenges relating to human wildlife conflicts relating to the ballooning elephant herds in Zimbabwe. The Committee wanted to get an appreciation on how ZIMPARK managed elephants in National Parks ahead of the 18th edition of the Conference of Parties to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora to be held in Geneva, Switzerland, from 17 to 28 August 2019.
OBJECTIVES OF THE FAMILIARISATION VIST
The broad aim of the visit was to appreciate the challenges faced by Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority (ZIMPARKS) regarding the management of elephants in the country’s biggest National
Parks. In more specific terms, the Committee sought to;
- Understand ZIMPARKS’ elephant management activities,
- Appreciate the benefits of wildlife co-management partnership model as practiced by the Gonarezhou Conservation Trust.
- Appreciate the human wildlife conflict in communities surrounding National Parks iv)To come up with recommendations for improved wildlife management and harmonious co-existence of human and wildlife;
METHODOLODY
In order to understand Hwange National Park’s elephant management activities, Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management
Authority’s Chief Ecologist gave a presentation to the Committee at Main Camp in Hwange National Park in July 2019. The Members also had an opportunity to tour Hwange National Park so that they witness how huge elephant populations had severely impacted on habitat change, fragmentation and loss in the Park. The Committee further visited the
Hwange Community leadership at Chief Nekatambe’s residence.
Finally, the Committee toured Gonarezhou National Park where
ZimParks had a new wildlife co-management partnership model called the Gonarezhou Conservation Trust that is governed by the Parks and Wildlife Act.
COMMITTEE’S FINDINGS
PRESENTATION BY ZIMPARK AT HWANGE MAIN
CAMP
The Committee learnt that Hwange National Park was managed under the Hwange Zambezi Cluster that is made up of seven stations namely; Main Camp, Sinamatela, Robins, Matetsi, Katombora, Kazuma and Zambezi.It was submitted that Hwange Zambezi Cluster had the largest elephant population in the country with 53 991 elephants. With regard to elephant poaching trends, Zimparks explained that 115 elephants were killed between 2013 and 2014, but the trend gradually decreased to below 10 elephants being killed by 2018. It was submitted that poaching activities in the Park disrupts research efforts on human wildlife conflicts currently underway.
Elephant mortality in Hwange Main Camp was generally low with elephant poisoning topping the list followed by rifle poaching and natural death causes. It was submitted that ZIMPARKS employed numerous anti-poaching strategies. These included patrols, surveillances, informer based deployments and awareness programmes. The
Committee learnt that aerial surveillance was strategic when monitoring water-points, carcass location, vegetative mapping among others.
ZimParks collaborates its efforts with various stakeholders to coordinate its wildlife management programs. ZimParks made successful arrests and secured significant convictions between 2016 and 2018. Out of 85 arrests, 80 convictions were secured in the courts. By reason of its successful security and investigations activities, it managed to recover 121 firearms and 37kg of cyanide within the same period. As a result of human-elephant conflict, unquantified crops were damaged as a result of the conflict. The Committee was not apprised of the exact number of people’s lives that were lost because of the conflicts. It was submitted that a total of 36 elephants are collared and are used in human-wildlife management related researches in Hwange National Park.
It was presented to the Committee that Hwange National Park’s
Water Supply was mainly powered by solar with only 13 water points at
Main Camp being diesel powered pumps. Game water supply in Hwange National Park and the effects of climate change on the water table were recognized as the key drivers to elephant population dynamics and habitat.
The Committee was informed that ZimParks had a number of Trans-frontier Conservation Area and Community Participation programs. These included the Hwange Sanyati Biodiversity Corridor project and the Human Wildlife Conflict Management Strategy for the Hwange Ecosystem. It was presented that these projects assisted in the conservation of the national biodiversity including wildlife management efforts.
SUBMISSIONS FROM WILDLIFE PRODUCERS AND
HWANGE RDC COUNCILLOR.
The Committee was informed that the major challenge faced by wildlife producers’ was security of tenure. The producers have permits of occupancy, as a result, they could not make long term investment decisions. Their belief was that they had great potential to contribute to the Gross Domestic Product of our country if security of tenure was put in place. The Hwange RDC Councilors pointed out that the major challenge posed by human-wildlife conflict was the lack of compensation for lost crops and livestock destroyed by elephants.
TOUR OF HWANGE NATIONAL PARK
The Committee observed the destruction of vegetation by elephants. Secondary vegetation was growing in certain areas where elephants had continuously destroyed the primary vegetation. In other areas the vegetation species were facing extinction owing to the persistent damage by elephants year after year. Most of the damage was concentrated around waterholes where elephants tend to congregate in search of drinking water.
SUBMISSIONS FROM CHIEF NEKATAMBE’S
RESIDENCE
The Community leaders raised a number of concerns. Their major concern was the lack of community benefits accruing from the wildlife proceeds. This acted as a disincentive for communities to conserve biodiversity in all forms.
They complained about human wildlife conflict especially with elephants. The local leaders informed the Committee that they were not happy that their community members were neither being employed by Parks nor benefit anything from wildlife management in Hwange National Park. Parks was also not contributing towards the development of their local infrastructure such as the construction of roads and schools. They informed the Committee that the entire district had only one Boarding School called Marist Brothers in the entire district. Therefore, they called on Government to channel more resources within the district towards the construction of schools.
They informed the Committee that they were baffled by the lack of compensation mechanism for people who would have lost their crops and relatives due to human-wildlife conflict. They stressed the need to realise the benefits associated with wildlife management. They complained that CAMPFIRE proceeds were not benefitting them at all.
Mr. Ncube, the Hwange Rural District C.E.O explained to the Committee how the CAMPFIRE model worked within the four conservation hotspots namely; Mabale, Silewu, Chidowe and Chikandabubi ward.
Chief Nekatambe informed the Committee that the idea of relocation of the local people was a very complex process which was neither understood nor contemplated by them. The local leaders complained that Ministers responsible for Environment, to whom they repeatedly lodged their complaints to, often get out of office before having brought tangible solutions to their grievances.
Replying to the issues raised by Community leaders, ZimParks explained that according to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) regulations,
Zimbabwe is allowed a quota of only 500 elephants per year. This is what is shared amongst the National Parks dotted around the country as well as CAMPFIRE making the allocations too small to make any significant impact in terms of development.
SUBMISSIONS BY ZIMPARKS ON ELEPHANT
MANAGEMENT INGONAREZHOU NATIONAL PARK
The Committee learnt that ZimParks had a new wildlife comanagement partnership model called the Gonarezhou Conservation Trust that is governed by the Parks and Wildlife Act. This new structure ensures a sustainable long term financial support for the Park through infrastructure development, investment in the tourism sector, increased security for elephants and rhinos, improved road and connectivity infrastructure and healthy buffer zones as well as the recruitment of sufficient and effective staff.
The Committee was informed that the underlying principle under the co-management model is that Gonarezhou remains both 100 percent a National Park and a property of Zimbabwe. The rationale for the Trust was to employ a full staff complement and structure to manage the Park, develop a tourism plan and infrastructure with a retention scheme for reinvestment, accessing larger donor funding and as an entity to positively engage with local stakeholders.
ANALYSIS OF KEY ISSUES
Impacts of Elephants on Ecosystem Structure, Function and
Species Diversity
The Committee observed the need to maintain numbers or densities of elephants at levels that do not adversely impact on biodiversity conservation goals. Huge elephant populations have the capacity to destroy woody biomass while tree canopy cover can decline in a short space of time. An elephant needs a lot of food and water. An elephant consumes up to 200kg of plant matter and between 150 to 200 litres of water in a single day. The extent of biodiversity destruction in our national park has already surpassed the sustainable thresholds. Parks is in a dilemma. On one hand there is an attempt to protect as many elephants as possible while on the other hand it was grappling with the need to preserve a full range of plant and animal species in protected areas and this was proving to be a nightmare.
What the Committee witnessed underlined the consequences of making single resource decisions, such as preserving all elephants, which can result in multiple resource consequences, for instance, loss of large trees, plant species, and animal diversity. The Committee agrees with ZIMPARKS that high elephant densities do not increase ecotourism opportunities and their associated ecological costs are not a requirement for eco-tourism financial sustainability.
Elephant conservation benefits for communities surrounding national parks
Zimbabwe, as with other African countries pursuing in-situ wildlife conservation, requires significant funding, for the conservation agenda. Communities that are living adjacent to protected areas continue to experience unprecedented human-wildlife conflicts. They risk being maimed or killed and their crops destroyed. They must experience the value and developmental benefits of living with, and conserving
wildlife. However, the management of such expansive land area requires a significant amount of funding and investment. We welcome partners and investors to optimally manage and unlock value from our wildlife towards helping build 'nature-based economies'.
It was the Committees observation that to have a future, elephants must have a shared value between ZIMPARKS and the communities surrounding National Parks. The greater the value, the greater the tolerance of elephants is likely to be. The local people who live closest to them will determine the long-term survival of species such as elephants. It is noteworthy to stress that Wildlife can be a most valuable asset and in turn empower local communities and provide basic necessities. Thus, appreciation of wildlife and biodiversity can contribute to reducing poverty and providing jobs amongst rural communities and empowering to become meaningful and effective partners in economic opportunities. The Committee believes that longterm solutions require nurturing the tolerance of local communities for elephants by ensuring that they benefit from having elephants adjacent
to their communities. Tolerance is likely to increase if communities realise the economic returns arising from the sustainable use of elephants.
This view was echoed at the AU-UN Africa Wildlife Economy
Summit held in Victoria Falls from the 23rd to the 25th June 2019, by His
Excellency, President Mnangagwa when he said “Zimbabwe’s Government recognizes that the survival of wild animals depends entirely on those among whom they live. Unless local people want to save them, wildlife will be poached to the point where just a few remain in fortified reserves”. The Deputy Executive of the UN Environment Program Joyce Msuya also supported this view. She opined that “I am confident we all acknowledge that communities must be equal partners in the conservation of wildlife. When communities living closest to wildlife have a clear role and stake in managing nature, they have a stronger incentive to conserve it.’’
The Committee observed that if the huge elephant herds challenges causing human-wildlife conflict are not resolved amicably, the first four objectives of the African Elephant Action Plan (AEAP) that was approved by 37 African elephant range states at the 15th meeting of the Conference of the Parties to CITES (Doha, Qatar 13-25 March 2010) to protect African elephants would, not be achieved. It is a logical that when wildlife is viewed as a valuable asset, wildlife conservation becomes an economically competitive land use in Zimbabwe, which leads to habitat preservation. The Committee is of the view that the presence of regulated hunting can also reduce illegal activities.
Gonarezhou co-management partnership model benefits
The other way that ZIMPARKS can scale up conservation efforts and community participation is the use of the co-management partnership model. The Committee noted that this model helps in areas such as the renovations of road and building infrastructure, the procurement of communication and vehicle equipment as well as their maintenance. It also helps in ecological monitoring, provision of patrol rations and for training of rangers. The Committee realised that this model facilitates employment opportunities and revenue generation that are underpinned by good corporate governance.
Resources could be mobilized from within Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority (ZPWMA), the private sector, and by inter-governmental and non-governmental organizations. Partnerships between ZPWMA and other stakeholders are some of the innovative measures that could be developed to secure funding for elephant conservation. There is need for Government to provide additional support to the conservation of elephants given the present poaching crisis affecting the species nationally.
Poaching Crisis Affecting Elephant Populations
The present poaching crisis affecting elephant populations in central and eastern Africa and associated public sentiment militates against the introduction of culling to manage elephant populations in Zimbabwe. The Committee notes that the sale of ivory was previously done to cover the costs of large-scale population reductions. This opportunity was effectively closed in 1989 by the CITES listing of elephant on Appendix I. Despite the listing of Zimbabwe’s elephant on Appendix II in 1997 and the subsequent sales of stockpiled ivory in 1998 and 2008, trade in ivory has since continued to be constrained by a nine-year moratorium on the sale of ivory
Ecological researches on elephant population impacts
The Committee was pleased to note that ZimParks, in conjunction with other conservation stakeholders, was carrying quantitative research on the spatial ecological changes that are being caused by the increasing elephant population. However, the research is yet to be completed, especially those relating to human wildlife conflict. The initial results are indicating that there is overpopulation of elephants which is negatively impacting on their management.
Culling
The most straightforward method of dealing with over-population of a species is culling. This is a definite option to contribute to the management of elephant overpopulation. In Hwange National Park, the number of elephants is so large that one of the only realistic ways of bringing the population under control is culling, using sustainable methods. However, culling is capital and skills intensive which could still be a challenge for the authority.
Contraception
Contraception is method which can be used to control the explosive growth of the elephant population. It alone will not reduce elephant population numbers in the short term. Contraception can slow down or stop an elephant population's growth rate, though it does not actually reduce the number of elephants in already overpopulated areas such as Hwange National Park. It has the potential to prevent further increase and reduces the numbers in the long run. There are cost implications for the authority to employ this method.
Translocation
Translocation is one of the older solutions to the problem of elephant overpopulation. It is a very complex process when done properly, but it is not as cost prohibitive as other options. This method is useful for small populations. It is stressful to elephants and can cause behavior problems especially if family groups are disrupted. Translocation, while producing valuable knowledge into elephant society, is now becoming a limited option as there are few remaining places that can accommodate elephants successfully in the long term that have not already been utilized in Zimbabwe. Translocation is expensive and labor-intensive and can only help remove a limited number of
“unwanted” elephants. Trans-locating one elephant can cost as much as
US$8,000.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Informed by these observations and analysis, the Committee made the following recommendations;
1. Elephant Sale and Export
Based on the scientific researches currently underway, the Committee recommends the Ministry of Environment, Climate Tourism and Hospitality Industry to lobby other like-minded African Countries to negotiate at the next CITIES Conferences of Parties for free trade in hunting products as these have a positive impact on the national and local economies of the country by August 2022. Zimbabwe will realize significant revenue from elephant exports, and such revenue can be used to enhance conservation and sustainable wildlife management programs.
2. Co-Management of Wildlife
The Committee also recommends that the Ministry of
Environment, Climate, Tourism and Hospitality Industry should, by December 2022, find partnerships to replicate the Gonarezhou comanagement partnership model in other National Parks such as Hwange and Matusadonha in order to benefit from donor support and counter some of the challenges being experienced by ZimParks in these Parks.
Zimparks should, by December 2020, devolve decision-making on aspects of problem animal control to communities for better management of the costs. However, the Committee notes that no one management option will successfully deal with all problem elephants and conflict situations.
3. Funding and resource mobilization
The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should, by December 2021, provide adequate, sustainable funding and the provision of equipment such as drones as they are important to effective protection of the elephant and curbing illegal poaching of elephants.
4. Legal and policy framework
The Ministry of Environment, Climate, Tourism and Hospitality Industry should, by December 2021, amend the Parks and Wildlife Act to provide for the protection of whistle-blowers and the rewarding system and incorporate deterrent custodial sentences. For instance, illegal cyanide possession does not have a deterrent sentence.
The Committee also recommends that ZIMPARKS prioritizes law enforcement through the Policy and Plan for Elephant Management in Zimbabwe by June 2021.
Conclusion
The Executive needs to be cognisant that the growth of wildlife economy is hampered by elephant management challenges and humanwildlife conflict. The country needs to find ways to solve these challenges which have not only become a conservation crisis but are also a human crisis. All of us must realize that elephants are critical resources that can contribute to the economic and social well-being of the local communities and the nation at large. I thank you.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I have risen to add my voice to this issue on elephant management in Hwange and Gonarezhou National Parks. It is a fact that this specie is over populated. To manage them has become a problem; to sell them has become a problem; to kill them is a problem, that is the reason why we have an over population of this specie in both Hwange and Gonarezhou. There are certain laws that bind us which makes us become unable to sell and reduce the number of elephants in this country. We have got management challenges which we noticed when we visited Hwange National Park and Gonarezhou and I am going to give a summation of both the two areas which we visited because they are more or less the same.
We have problems of human-wildlife conflict, which we were told both in Hwange and Gonarezhou and on this issue, both places have complaints that these elephants are coming to their fields to destroy their crops. They even come to an extent of killing people but the burning issue is that there is no compensation that has been given to any of those people who suffer this catastrophe.
When we visited one chief in Hwange, he highlighted how these animals come to his village and destroy crops. A few other issues that were highlighted were that the people in the parks do not employ local and that makes it difficult for them to control poachers because they are not employed. We were looking at the issue of poaching which is rampant in Hwange; the issue of poisoning was also mentioned and we are of the opinion that if patrols are done, that would reduce the issue of poaching.
Of course in Hwange they told us that there are some patrols and arrests done but there was mention that if locals were employed they know the area and they might know even some routes which poachers use. They are then able to curb this problem. We also were of the opinion that some awareness campaigns be done; some fireguards be made so that when a fire catches up it will not destroy the whole national park. We discovered there were some solar pumped boreholes but they are not enough because the animals in that park are too many to be sustained by the number of boreholes which are there.
In Gonarezhou National Park, things seem to be a bit better because of a partnership that exists there. We discovered that
Gonarezhou National Park is very organised; they have a complement of staff; they have some trucks, graders and the roads are good. We attributed this to the fact that it is because of the partnership that is there. We made some recommendations that in our parks, partnership is the way to go. If we partner with some NGOs it will help us to maintain our parks well. We may be able to reduce the number of elephants if we exercise some culling and allow some safari hunting to be done. We can also use the money to do some community projects in communities that surround the parks. We need to explore an avenue on how we can sell some of the elephants that we have in this country. We recommended that the Government should support elephant conservation. After having visited all the two areas, this is what we came up with as a Committee. I thank you.
*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for
giving me this opportunity to contribute to this debate on this Committee that went to look into wildlife issues in Hwange and Gonarezhou National Parks. Your Committee took time to go and find out what is happening in terms of wildlife. In Hwange National Parks, we discovered that we now have a problem of overpopulation of the elephants. At the moment, there is more than 80 000 herd of elephants whilst the park is only meant to carry 45 000 elephants. So that is causing a lot of conflict between wildlife and humans.
People are saying elephants are encroaching into villages because they are too many now. Today we are celebrating World Wildlife Day with that theme and though wildlife is important to us but looking at today’s theme, people’s safety should also be put into consideration. At the moment, there is too much human and wildlife conflict. As a nation, we should really consider measures to put in place because elephants are now disturbing people’s livelihoods in Hwange.
We spoke to Chief Nekatambe and villagers, they said their biggest problem is when their crops are disturbed, the Government does not compensate them or alleviate their livelihood. Of course, they take care of these elephants and they are saying, ‘is it now a curse of looking after these elephants because we do not get any compensation’. Sometimes those elephants or other wildlife are very dangerous to people because they can endanger or kill humans.
However, this is the day of commemorating that under that theme.
We are saying people should also be taken care of. In Jambezi, Hwange District, they are saying they no longer have places to farm because of elephants. They are pleading with the Government that if you are not able to assist in any way, please come and take us so that we go and stay in Harare at Parliament or at Copacabana.
Therefore, we should urgently take care of the problems being faced by people living adjacent to the wildlife parks. There should be sustainable utilisation. Our people understood wildlife and took care of the elephants. So as the Government, let us resuscitate the campfire so that they get some kind of incentives for looking after wildlife. We realise that there are a lot of unemployed youths, and other people are also starving especially this year when there is drought. Those elephants are supposed to help people especially when there is such a need, that should be their incentive because they are taking good care of our wildlife.
At the moment, the campfire programme is no longer helpful to the people. People are not getting any benefits from campfire after taking care of the wildlife especially the elephants. This brings the problem of poaching; people end up going to porch in order to help themselves. We do not encourage that but let us look carefully into the lives of people who live adjacent to wildlife parks.
Campfire’s operations are no longer known because they no longer go back to the people. When we went to campfire they said they are not getting any benefits after taking care of those elephants. Therefore, people need incentives to take care of the wildlife. As the Legislature, the Minister should find a way of ending these human and wildlife conflicts. The elephants should be spread along the whole Zambezi
Valley and not to have them concentrated along Hwange National Park.
We should also consider partnerships like what is happening in Gonarezhou National Parks. People in Gonarezhou are benefiting because there is partnership. It is clear that people are benefiting, there are vehicles that are used by rangers to access the national parks. There are also graders to open up roads. The partners are also getting benefits and they are ploughing them back to the community, so the communities are benefiting from proceeds of Gonarezhou National Parks whilst in Hwange the herd is growing whereas people are not benefiting from the large herd of elephants.
Considering CITIES; as a country, yes we have taken good care of the wildlife but we also need to see benefits so that at least we are allowed to sell them to other regions for benefits to be brought back to the communities.
In short, this is what we realised that yes, conservation is a good thing but people or the surrounding communities should also benefit. The residents and villagers should benefit so that we also see the benefits realised from that. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th March 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I move that we revert to Order of the Day, Number 3 on today’s Order Paper.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I want first of all to acknowledge the debate by Hon.
Members on my Second Reading speech and the contributions from Hon. Members. I have summarised some of the issues that came out of the debate. Mostly issues that came out of the debate were covered by the Portfolio Committee in its report and I want to thank the Committee for a very comprehensive report. So, I will go through some of the issues that I felt were very important that were addressed by the
Portfolio Committee.
The Portfolio Committee had issues with Clause 5 on duty to disclose information which they felt that it should be extended. The committee was concerned that Clause 5 did not extend the duty of the Information Officer and said that it should provide for the assistance of applicants requesting any information in the custody of the entity. I took note of the recommendation though I felt it was very vague as it does not specify the type of assistance to be provided by the Information Officer or the circumstances of the applicant that may require special assistance from the Information Officer.
The Bill Mr. Speaker adequately caters for the duty of assisting applicants through compelling Information Officers from public bodies, public commercial bodies or statutory offices to assist applicants in their request for information. There is therefore no need Mr. Speaker to extend the provisions of the said clause.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the other concern was regarding that each entity must publish its policy on handling of information requests and how to resolve complaints relating to access to information. I must concede Mr.
Speaker; I agree with the Committee. Freedom of Information Bill sets out the minimum standards for access to information. Over and above this legislation, there is need Mr. Speaker for a policy which will be beneficial to citizens depending on an entity’s resources and technology, the manner and timeframes of accessing information may be quicker than those set out in the Bill. An amendment adding a sub-paragraph under Clause 5 of the Bill can be done and I am amenable to this amendment.
There was also another concern or recommendation that the Bill does not specify the period of declassification of information. Mr. Speaker Sir, this is covered under the Official Secrets Act; that is the supreme law that covers this request and therefore there is no need to put it in this Bill. The other recommendation was they indicated whether or not oral requests can be made when requesting for information. There was debate on the recommendation from the Committee and it was why not include oral requests. I acknowledge that there are certain categories of people, especially the elderly, the illiterate and those with visual impairments, who may have challenges in submitting written requests. While we may be tempted to include the acceptance of oral requests in the Bill, however Mr. Speaker Sir, oral requests require the Information Officer to record or transcribe on paper what the applicant will have said as well as seeking an endorsement from the applicant on the captured information, thereby complicating the process. Their request means that the Information Officer will now have to transcribe and the processing of the information will be problematic in that regard. Over and above that, oral requests do not have a paper trail and cannot therefore be filed which presents challenges when making follow-ups on the request for information. There is no need Mr. Speaker to include oral requests.
Further, citizens shall be advised to be accompanied by someone trustworthy to complete the required formalities when requesting information from public entities. Hon. Speaker, there was also a recommendation that why not reduce time frames for accessing information. The concern they raised was that the 21 days was too long. Hon. Speaker, we took into consideration, the international best practice and what obtains in the region. You will realise Mr. Speaker in South Africa, they give up to 30 days, Zambia, 21 days and the United Kingdom has 20 days. The reason for the 21 days is that while some requests for information may be straight forward and without hassle and being facilitated or responded to within a short period, in this instance, it is covered in the phrase, “shall as soon as possible.” In Clause 8 (1) there will however inevitably be instances where the information may need translation, consent of third parties and authentication, and in such instances, 21 days would be necessary.
Further, the concerns for when information is needed on an urgent basis are presently covered under Clause 8 (2) and such instances are there to safeguard the life or liberty of a person and this time limit has been capped at a maximum of 48 hours. If such urgent information is needed, one would have the onus of proving that such information relates to safeguarding the life or liberty of a person that is what would be considered to be urgent. We are thus upholding the timeframes set out in the Bill as we believe they are reasonable and comparable to international best standards. The other recommendation that came out from the debate and from the Committee;
- Transferability of Information Requests.
We concede that there be a provision in Clause 9 of transferability of information requests from one entity to another. For the process to be efficient, the applicant must be immediately copied when the request will have been transferred to another entity. The originator of the request for information should then take up the responsibility of making sure that the request has been received by the other entity as there may be need for further clarification and specifications related to the request. The turn-around time for processing the request should be calculated from the day that the rightful entity will have received the application.
- Deemed Refusal Clause to be Removed from the Bill.
Clause 10 is necessary as the meaning and intention behind this Clause is to protect the applicant, as it serves to put the information officer on notice that failure to notify a decision on a request for access to information shall be deemed as a refusal which then leaves the information officer liable to further judicial action beginning with an appeal to the Media Commission in terms of Part VI of this Bill and subsequently, further action in the High Court. Without this deemed refusal Clause, the applicant would have a more tedious and difficult task of proving that the Information Officer failed to respond to a request for information.
- Whether or not to Recover Translation Costs from the Applicant.
We concede, as Clause 16(2) of the Bill is using the phrase “may” which is less compelling. In as far as reference is being made to the 16 official languages of Zimbabwe; the use of “may” in Clause 16(2) is in order. But, if reference is being made to other foreign languages like French, Russia or Chinese for example, there is need to add another subparagraph under the Clause as 16(3) which will provide for the translation costs for such foreign languages to be borne by the applicant.
- The Bill should not Permit the Charging of Repetitive fees.
The Bill addresses the concern raised through Clause 17(5) whereby the Minister will determine maximum payable fees which by norm will be reasonable, nominal and not prohibitive to the citizenry.
Clause 17 provides guidance on what the Minister may gazette as fees. Further to that, Clause 13(5) states that where access to information may be given in another form, the reproduction fee may not exceed the fee that would have been charged if the application had been given access in the form requested.
- The Bill Does Not Specify Which Commission Will Receive
Annual Reports on The Number of Requests for Access to the
Information Received and Requests Granted
We concede. Clause 18 of the Bill should specify that public bodies file annual reports with the Zimbabwe Media Commission on requests received, granted and not granted.
11. Clause 30 is Insulating Public Entities Against Public
Scrutiny.
The Clause is not insulating public entities against public scrutiny but is rather subjecting ongoing/current internal policy discussions, testing of new systems of an entity to the public domain. Sub-sections (3) and (4) of the Clause explicitly state information that came into existence more than 20 years before the request is made should be disclosed hence the Clause is not restrictive but is meant to protect fresh discussions, plans and plans of an entity.
12. Need to define “Frivolous or Vexatious Requests” in Clause
31.
The justification for this Clause is that in seeking to provide as many people with information that would have been requested, the fees for such requests have to be low, however, when certain requests appear to have the ability to strenuously divert resources of an entity, in that case, the information may have to be denied after being given reasons.
We do however, concede to the point that it may unfairly disadvantage certain individuals who wish to have information and can afford to do so even if it is expensive. We would then add a sub-clause to the effect “notwithstanding subsection (2), if the request for information is denied on the basis that the work would substantially divert the resources of the entity, the applicant shall be invited to meet the costs of retrieving the information should they so choose”
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me also touch on other issues raised by Hon. Members. Hon. A. Mpofu and Hon. Tsunga submitted that the scope of the Bill must compel private entities to disclose information of public interest to the citizens. Outside the Freedom of Information Bill, there are other avenues and laws for instance, the Companies Act, regulating public listed companies, as well as other Acts and the administrative courts that can compel private organisations to disclose information of public interest.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. A Mpofu pointed out that there should be proactive disclosure of information. This is conceded to, public entities will, as a matter of policy, be obliged to proactively disclose information without waiting to do so in their regular reports. All public bodies produce reports which are often published in the media as policy programme or project performance outcome indicators. Statutory bodies also present periodic reports to Parliament.
Another issue raised by Hon. Mpofu is on training and capacitation of information officers. Yes, this will be done as soon as the law comes into effect.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Shamu contributed in support of this Bill. Indeed access to information is a prerequisite for Zimbabwe to occupy its rightful place in this era of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. This Bill is going to guarantee access to information.
Hon. Tsunga raised the fact that the time frames for accessing information are too long. I have responded to this concern earlier on when I was responding to the recommendations of the Portfolio Committee.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Tsunga submitted that Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission should substitute ZMC as the appellant body. We acknowledge that access to information is a human right, however, ZMC is the appellant body in view of its mandate as set out in Section 249(1)(f) I think we will have discussions on this in view of maybe tiding it up at Committee Stage, we are amenable to the recommendation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with this response, I move that the Bill be now read the Second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of clarity Mr. Speaker. The
Hon. Minister has made various concessions and responses with regards to the presentation by the Committee and the general debate during the Second Reading, some of which have a bearing in the actual text as it shall end up appearing in the final Bill. Is it possible that as we go into Committee Stage, those concessions be captured as we debate them? I am not quite sure how we are going to be able to capture them because he makes quite a number of concessions. How are we going to actualise those concessions?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Speaker, what we are going to do is I think the Committee is also bringing in some amendments and I will also bring some amendments to the Bill, and they will be on the Order Paper. So, as we go into Committee, everything that we are talking about will be on the Order Paper and when we discuss in Committee, we will be able to go Clause by Clause and see if whatever we are in agreement has been captured. I thank you.
Committee Stage: Thursday, 5th February, 2020.
SECOND READING
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10, 2019
Fourth Order read: adjourned debate on the second reading of the International Treaties Bill.
Question again proposed.
HON. TSUNGA: I want to also contribute to this debate on the
International Treaties Bill, following the report presented by our
Chairperson, Hon. Paradza. Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe is a signatory to several conventions, treaties and agreements. Of course, several remain unratified, unimplemented and undomesticated. Whereas Section 34 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe states that the State must ensure that all international conventions, treaties and agreements to which Zimbabwe is party are incorporated into domestic law. This has not happened as we have seen in recent weeks when several convention bills were fasttracked in this august House.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Parliament has been systematically sidelined by the Executive in its consideration of international conventions, treaties and agreements. This haphazard, unsystematic, uncoordinated, opaque and arbitrary approach did not and does not pass the test of transparency and accountability in terms of how these treaties are eventually signed and agreed upon. The International Treaties Bill, if passed into law, should enable the following; that there is a systematic and methodical signing, ratification and domestication of international treaties, conventions and agreements.
The Bill should also ensure that it complements other good laws already in existence such as the ZIDA Bill. I think the two will complement one another. The Bill should ensure that corruption and corrupt tendencies are kept in check insofar as the signing of certain agreements is concerned. The Bill also should ensure that it enables more efficient and effective performance management, monitoring and evaluation of our foreign missions, especially where we have reciprocity. Mr. Speaker Sir, the removal of opaqueness should bring about greater clarity to the process and procedures to be followed before any international treaty, convention or agreement can be signed into domestic law.
The Bill envisages you know, to help cure the mega deals syndrome where these have just been signed which deals never seem to see light of day as nothing happens beyond pronouncement. We have seen the Executive signing mega deals and coming to make pronouncements, which pronouncements are just made prior to
Parliament having seen those treaties and the result has been that we have not seen anything happening on the ground other than the pronouncements of the mega deals.
Finally Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill I think at a personal level is supported because it is progressive law and it will ensure that Parliament involvement in the domestication of progressive international laws that will seek to improve governance, fight for constitutionalism, protection of human rights and fight to improve human security. With these few words Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to say the Bill is progressive in many respects as it must ensure that all international conventions, treaties and agreements come before Parliament before they are ratified and domesticated. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. PHULU: Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you for recognising me to contribute to this important debate. Mr. Speaker this is a Bill that comes at a timely occasion. For a long time there has been a campaign to ensure that we have an Act that actually recognises that we are a dualist system.
In Zimbabwe when our President signs and ratifies agreements, those agreements do not automatically become law until Parliament passes a law to ensure that those agreements become law. We have seen quite a number of agreements that have become law. An example is the Arbitration Act that we have. There is quite a number of them but there has always been a gap in that there are a number of agreements that we, as a state party Zimbabwe, have signed but have not found their way to this House and there has been wind to no clear mechanism on how you could compel either the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade or whoever is responsible to bring those laws to the House and I think that this treaty is a big step forward in that direction.
I have read the Bill, it is a short Bill and that on its own is an advantage. It means that the Government is not dilly dallying about what they want to do. They have managed to get straight to the point and simply say that we want our treaties to be implemented within a certain time frame and that is welcome, Mr. Speaker Sir. However, I would like to debate just one point which I hope to persuade the Government to take into account.
Section 27 (3) of the Constitution provides that any agreement which is not an international treaty, because there are other agreements other than international treaties, which have been concluded or executed by the President under the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and I see that in the definition section, the interpretation section, clause 2 there is no definition of a foreign organisation or foreign entity and I know that one may argue that foreign organisations and foreign entities may come in different shapes, Mr. Speaker Sir, as international law develops and as things change, but certainly it would be useful to have that kind of definition in clause 2 of the interpretation section of this Bill.
I know that the response that is going to come from the Minister is going to be well - in another the amendments are going to remove foreign entities because we do not know what it means and we will substitute it with international organisation. In looking at this Bill I would like to urge the Minister to recognise the difference between a foreign organisation and an international organisation. In order for the Minister to recognise it effectively, that definition needs to be concluded.
A foreign organisation may be any other organisation because for the government - this clause of the Constitution is to ensure that there is no agreement whatsoever which involves us as the people of Zimbabwe and our children whom we are protecting and their children’s children and future generations. They should not go into any situation where debt is accumulated whether with a foreign entity or with an international organisation that should not go through Parliament. Failing to define what a foreign organisation or entity is in this treaty may create a gap in terms of which the Government may be able to amass massive debt which will not fall under the scrutiny of Parliament under the pretext that this is an international entity and not an international organisation.
So we would like to urge the Minister in coming up with the final provisions, to recognise the difference and the distinction between a foreign entity or organisation and on the other hand an international organisation, regardless of the fact that there is something else that is coming that seeks to do otherwise. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and would like to congratulate the Committee on a wonderful report.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank the Committee for the report and I want to support that this is the first time for our Government to recognise Parliament doing their job. We have been noticing these things happening, the Minister just doing his own things, but I want to thank you Minister.
The reason why I stood up is because you should encourage your colleagues in Cabinet so that they bring their issues here because we are the legislature and that is our duty. You find that if we do that, our laws will be used by those who you are putting up the laws for. The Executive should not take the powers of the legislature because law making is solely for Parliament.
Let me say Hon. Speaker, yes, the duty of Parliament had been reserved but looking at the law that the Minister has brought in, you will find that a lot of times when laws like these are brought into Parliament if we have agreed, we find that they do not ratify as a country because we are saying we have received it, but for it to be identified as
Zimbabwean, we do not see it. We have seen that we have ratified a lot of laws and they are there on the shelves, but they are not domesticated. It is my cry that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs should talk to his colleagues. There are a lot of things that they have done but they are not in use because nothing has been brought to Parliament. We should give them room that they bring them and then we show them what we want as Zimbabweans, what we should use as Zimbabweans. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I must say that it is very refreshing for me to come to the august House with a Bill and I find this consensus and the accolades from both sides of the House. I want to thank Hon. Members for the positive contributions that were given for the Bill and I must say that I want to acknowledge the contributions by all the Hon. Members. Indeed, some were asking - like Hon. Mashakada, what is the mischief that we want to cure in this Bill? I listened attentively to the contributions by Hon. Members and I am sure if Hon. Mashakada was listening, he was able to capture the mischief that we are trying to cure. The concerns by the Hon. Members that we have treaties that we have been signing and the process of ratification and domestication was haphazard, so this Bill is trying to give the legal framework on what we need to do should we enter into an international treaty (the processes of) until it is ratified and publicised so that members of the public also become aware of it.
I am sure the concerns by the Hon. Members motivated us to come with this Bill so that we cure that mischief that we have been accused of. I think this Bill will actually strengthen the role of Parliament. It is not taking away the role of Parliament. It will strengthen the role of Parliament in so far as the ratification and domestication of international treaties is concerned.
I notice Hon. Madzimure thought that this process was going to exclude Parliament. In fact, this Bill will actually enhance the work of Parliament and there will be more coordination because we are going to publish this. All the processes will have timeframes.
I also want to thank Hon. Tsunga again. He debated and said he noticed that I was fast tracking several conventions in Parliament. It was in response to calls by Hon. Members, that why are you not bringing those conventions for ratification and we responded positively. I think it is a positive cry from him and I want to acknowledge him. Indeed, we are going to have a systematic and methodical system of ratifying these conventions. It complements other Bills like he rightly said and it removes the opaqueness so to speak.
I want to thank Hon. Phulu for his comments and indeed I agree with him that the Bill is coming at an opportune time. I however want to say to Hon. Phulu – I agree with you that we need a definition of a foreign organisation in this Bill. In fact, I no longer intend to remove foreign organisation in my amendment to the Constitution. I believe that when it comes to loan agreements, it is adequately covered under Section 300 of the Constitution and the lack of a definition in Section
327 is not fatal. I think there are various ways of interpreting legislation. You go to the literal, purposive and the lack of a definition, there it is not fatally defective but I agree with you. In this Bill, there is no harm in including a definition of foreign organisation.
Hon. Mpariwa, thank you very much for your debate and exactly your concern is what we are trying to address in this Bill. Mr. Speaker Sir, with these few words, I move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Thursday, 5th March, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that
Orders of the Day, Numbers 5 to 16 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 17 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE BENCHMARKING VISIT BY THE DELEGATION
OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON BUDGET, FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO THE PARLIAMENT OF KENYA
HON. MHONA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Benchmarking Visit by the delegation of the Portfolio Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development to the Parliament of Kenya from 28th July to 3rd August 2019.
HON. T. MOYO: I second.
HON. MHONA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. It is unfortunate that the House is not full. This is a very important report that also addresses the issues of Hon. Members.
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 The Portfolio Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development conducted a benchmarking visit to the Parliament of Kenya from the 28th July to 3rd of August 2019. The benchmarking visit was fully funded by Parliament of Zimbabwe. The visit was conducted during the first session of the 9th life of Parliament as part of capacity building for the Committee as it strives to understand its mandate and improve on how it conducts its business. The benchmarking visit was very fruitful as the delegation was able to achieve its main objectives.
1.2 The delegation comprised of nine Honourable Members of Parliament and one member of staff from the Budget, Finance and
Economic Development Committee, namely; Hon. Felix Mhona
(Chair of the Committee); Hon. Ability Gandawa; Hon. Alice
Ndhlovu; Hon. Edwin Mushoriwa; Hon. Godfrey Dube; Hon.
Tatenda Mavetera; Hon. Torerai Moyo; Hon. Willias Madzimure;
Hon. Zhemu Soda and Mrs. Precious Mtetwa (Secretary to the
Delegation).
2.0 CONTEXTUAL BACKGROUND
2.1 Zimbabwe and Kenya share a common history that both countries were once colonised by Britain, hence inherited a similar parliamentary system of governance. Both parliaments are bicameral in nature comprising of the National Assembly and the Senate. Kenya and Zimbabwe underwent some strong constitutional reforms in 2010 and 2013 respectively leading to the enactment of laws aimed at strengthening of the role of Parliament in the public finance management system and the whole budget process.
2.2 The Parliament of Kenya is administered by the Parliamentary Service Commission, which is the parliamentary decision making body, independent from the Executive and therefore an autonomous body. In executing its mandate, the Commission is
guided by the Parliamentary Service Act of November 28, 2000. On the other hand, Parliament of Zimbabwe is administered through the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders as provided for in the Constitution of Zimbabwe. The Committee on Standing Rules and Orders is equivalent to the Parliamentary Service Commission of Kenya. However, the two systems differ in terms of composition, staff complement and the way they are administered.
2.3 The Constitution of Kenya further provides for the establishment of an Executive arm of the State drawn completely from individuals outside of Parliament. Section 152 (3) states that ‘A
Cabinet Secretary[1] shall not be a Member of Parliament.’ Prior to the enactment of the Constitution in 2010, Ministers were part of the legislature. This new provision ensures that there is complete separation of power among the three arms of the State. This arrangement complies with the doctrine of separation of powers as it allows each structure to supervise the other and ensuring checks and balances, thereby preventing abuse of public resources.
2.4 In Zimbabwe, while the law provides for separation of powers, there remains challenges in terms of implementation due to various factors, in particular who really owns the power of the purse between the Executive and the Legislature.
2.5 The issue of devolution seems to be identical in the constitutions of the two nations. The Constitution of Kenya devolved power and responsibilities from the national government to 47 elected county governments. Zimbabwe on the other hand, is also in the process of devolving power from the national government to provincial councils.
3.0 OBJECTIVES OF THE BENCHMARKING VISIT
3.1 The objectives of the benchmarking visit to the Parliament of
Kenya were specifically aimed at achieving the following;
- Learn the structure, role and activities of the equivalent and related Committee/s to the Finance and Economic
Development Committee;
- Appreciate the work and strategies of Committees in their legislative and oversight roles; and iii.Share lessons and experiences of the Committees in the budget cycle and the functionality of the Budget Office.
4.0 PROGRAMME OF ACTIVITIES
4.1 During the one-week long benchmarking visit in Kenya, the delegation had the opportunity of touring the two chambers of
Parliament namely; the National Assembly and the Senate Chambers. In addition to that, the delegation observed a Parliament sitting session in the National Assembly. The delegation also held meetings with the Parliament Budget Office, Budget and
Appropriation Committee (BAC); and the Finance and Economic Planning Committee as it sought to establish and understand their different roles in the budget process.
4.2 On the invitation by the Hon. Chairperson of the BAC, the Committee had the honour to witness the issuance of birth certificates to the Shona community in Kikuyu province, which has been part of the stateless community in Kenya. Last but not least,
the delegation paid a courtesy call to the Chairperson of African
Parliamentarians Against Corruption (APNAC) Kenya, Hon.
Shakeel Shabbir Ahmed.
5.0 TOUR OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND SENATE
5.1 The delegation toured both houses of Parliament namely, the National Assembly and Senate Chambers. It was established that Kenya operated under a unicameral system up to 1966 where a bicameral system which brought about the Upper and Lower houses was introduced. However, the 2010 Constitution of Kenya brought additional changes as it recognised the two houses as equal but with different roles and functions.
5.2 Currently, the National Assembly has a total of 349 seats, of which about 290 are elected from the constituencies, 47 women elected from the counties and 12 nominated representatives by parliamentary political parties according to their proportion of members of the National Assembly. The National Assembly is mainly responsible for representing the people of the
constituencies and guiding the national purse in addition to their legislative and oversight function.
5.3 The Senate comprises of forty-seven (47) members each elected from the counties, sixteen (16) women members who are nominated by political parties according to their proportion of members of the Senate, two (2) members, being one man and one woman, representing the youth; two (2) members, being one man and one woman, representing persons with disabilities. The Senate represents the counties and serves to protect the interests of the counties and their governments in addition to their legislative and oversight functions.
5.4 During the tours, the delegation made the following observations;
5.4.1 That Parliament of Kenya has gone paperless since both houses were now computerised. All Members of Parliament receive the Order Paper and Hansard on the tablets fixed on their tables in the
Chamber.
5.4.2 The Parliament of Kenya has adopted the Biometric Registration for both houses, which makes it easier to register attendance of the members in the House.
5.4.3 Both Chamber infrastructure is sensitive to persons with disability given that they have reserved seats in the House specifically designed to accommodate them.
5.4.4 There is a Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit within Parliament, which operates full time to broadcast all parliamentary business to the various radio and TV stations on a commercial basis. The Unit is manned by staff of Parliament.
5.4.5 There is a Media Centre within the precinct of Parliament which is fully furnished and equipped, where the media people use to prepare their stories for publication.
6.0 MEETING WITH THE PARLIAMENTARY BUDGET
OFFICE
6.1 The delegation noted that the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) was established in 2007 as a non-partisan professional office of the Parliament of Kenya. The primary function of the office is to provide professional non-partisan advice in respect of budget, finance and economic information to committees of Parliament, in particular the Budget and Appropriation Committee (BAC) and the Finance and Planning Committee (FPC). The office was established under the Directorate of Information and Research by a resolution of Parliament pending the enactment of the requisite legislation. The decision to create the PBO came about on the realisation that budget documents are bulky and complex, hence the need to be synthesised and highlight the salient issues for parliamentarians to take note and make quick decisions.
6.2 The delegation noted that the PBO of Kenya was established without any legal backing until 2009 when the Fiscal Management Act (FMA) was enacted, which established the PBO as a unit under the Parliamentary Service Commission. The office was subsequently elevated to a directorate in 2010. The enactment of the Public Finance Management Act in 2012 repealed the Fiscal Management Act and also enhanced the operational independence of the PBO.
6.3 The PBO is headed by the Director, Mrs Phyllis Ndunge Makau who reports administratively to the Clerk of the National
Assembly. She was among the first employees to work for the
PBO at establishment in 2007, having worked in the Treasury Department for close to 20 years. Currently, the office comprises of three departments, headed by three Deputy Directors namely;
- Macroeconomic Analysis and Statistics Department, which specialises on sectoral expenditure analysis and in-year expenditure tracking,
- Budget Analysis and Sectoral Expenditure Department, which specialises on macroeconomic modelling and forecasting, and
- Tax Analysis and Inter-Fiscal Relations Department, which specialises on tax analysis and revenue forecasting, money bill determination and costing as well as inter-fiscal matters.
- The PBO currently has a staff establishment comprising of 44 professional analysts ranging from economists, statisticians, fiscal analysts and lawyers, among others. The Head of Department has so far proposed for an expansion of the staff from the current 44 to 50 as measures to enhance the capacity of the office.
- The PBO enjoys a cordial relationship with the Budget and Appropriation Committee, Finance and Planning Committee and a supportive Parliament Administration from both houses of Parliament. As a department within Parliament, the operations of the office have been benchmarked to that of the Congressional Budget Office in the United States of America.
- The PBO provides technical and support services to the Committee on a fulltime basis.
- The PBO provides both reactive and proactive analysis on all budgetary matters. The key outputs of the PBO includes, among others the following;
- Budget Options, whereby alternative fiscal framework for the annual budget are proffered,
- Budget Watch, which is a synthesis of the annual budget,
- Money Bill Determination Certificates based on the review of the legislation in accordance with Article 114 of the
Constitution on ‘Money Bills’,
- Analytical Briefs on the Budget Policy Statement (BPS),
- Analytical Briefs on the Annual Estimates of Revenue and
Expenditure,
- Monthly Bulletins summarising the key economic and budget developments in the economy.
7.0 THE BUDGET MAKING PROCESS IN KENYA
7.1 The delegation discussed the budget making process in Kenya with the officials from the PBO. The presentation was made by Mrs
Lucy Makara who highlighted the following key issues;
7.1.1 The budget process in Kenya is shaped by its past history, being a British colony, hence adoption of the Westminster approach in its governance system. In order to enhance the budgetary process and the public finance management system in the country, several reforms were undertaken by the Government of Kenya from 1986. The reforms aimed at addressing the gaps in the budget process and enhance the role of Parliament in overseeing the utilisation of public resources for the betterment of the people. Thus, in 1987, the issuance of Treasury Circular by the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Finance begun and the introduction of the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF).
7.1.2 The 2010 Constitution further changed the public finance management architecture and made the budget process in Kenya more participatory. Chapter 12 of the Constitution of Kenya sets
out the principles of public finance management. It emphasises the need for public involvement in the budget process, while the PFMA delegates that role to consult the people to the Budget and Appropriation Committee of the National Assembly.
7.1.3 The delegation noted that the Parliament of Kenya has the ‘power of the purse’ in the budget process.
7.1.4 It was also established that in Kenya, the financial year runs from July to June. Thus, the budget making process begins in August when the Cabinet Secretary issues the Treasury Circular in consultation with the Cabinet. Sector Working Groups (SWGs) are also launched on the basis of key policy areas and issues raised in the circular to focus on during the budget process. The SWGs comprises of ministries grouped together depending on their functions and operations as measures to enhance synergies among departments of governments. All ministries are required to participate in their respective sector working groups which review their priorities to ensure they are consistent with the strategic
national objectives as outlined in the medium term plans and Vision 2030. The SWGs then prepares reports that inform the budget preparations.
7.1.5 The various SWGs reports inform the preparation of the Budget Strategy Paper (BSP) which must be tabled by the National Treasury latest by 15 February each year. Parliament has 14 days to review and approve the BSP. The National Standing Orders require the departmental committees to deliberate upon the BSP based on their respective mandate and make recommendations to the BAC. The BAC then tables the consolidated report on the BSP to the National Assembly outlining the recommended revenue projections, total expenditure and ceiling by vote for the national government, the Judiciary and Parliament.
7.1.6 The National Treasury is required to take into account the resolutions of Parliament on the BSP when preparing the final budget for the fiscal year. If the National Treasury deviates from the resolutions made by Parliament, a statement explaining the deviation must accompany the Budget Policy Statement. The Budget Statement must be tabled not later than 30 April every fiscal year. In line with that, the Parliamentary Service Commission and the Judiciary independently present their estimates for expenditure to the National Assembly by the 30th of April each fiscal year.
7.1.7 Of importance to note, are the various institutions created by the Constitution which are key and relevant to the budget process. The introduction of Sector Working Groups and public participation through budget hearings has been very pivotal in the history of
Kenya. The delegation noted that the consultative processes in
Kenya are quite comprehensive as it involves various stakeholders. The process involves both the bottom up and up bottom approaches. Overall, the budget process is guided by the Medium Term Plan (2018 – 2022) and Vision 2030 policy document of the country.
7.1.8 The delegation noted that the Constitution mandates the Executive to table the National Budget Statement and the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure at least two months before the end of each financial year [Article 221(1) of the Constitution]. The Leader of the Majority in Parliament tables the Budget in Parliament while the BAC and the Finance and Planning Committee play a critical role in the budgeting processes.
7.1.9 Kenya has adopted and is implementing programme based budgeting (PBB) framework where it links national agenda and output.
8.0 ROLE OF DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEES AND BUDGET AND APPROPRIATION COMMITTEE (BAC) IN
THE BUDGET PROCESS
8.1 Once the Budget Policy Statement is tabled in the National Assembly, it is automatically referred to the departmental committees for review in accordance with their respective mandates.
8.2 The departmental committees prepare and submit their recommendations to the BAC within 21 days. The delegation learnt that all the departmental committees after their consultations are expected to table their reports before the BAC, which has the powers to scrutinise the reports and amend where necessary before adopting the reports and finally tables the consolidated report. The BAC reviews the overall budget estimates, taking into account the recommendations of the departmental committees, the content of the BSP, the views of the public and the views of the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury.
8.3 The BAC finally prepares a consolidated report with recommendations for consideration and approval by the National Assembly.
8.4 The BAC is specifically mandated to deal with all budgetary matters. In order to ensure that the people are involved in the process, the BAC is also mandated to engage the people in the budget process through budget consultative meetings in the various counties. Kenya has 47 counties and the BAC is expected to visit all the counties by the end of its five year life of Parliament. In line with that, the delegation established that the Committee strives to visit on average, at least eight or nine counties per year to solicit their views on the ensuing budget.
8.5 It was also highlighted that every year, Parliament sets aside a small budget specifically targeted at addressing the needs and challenges raised by the people during the budget consultative process in the counties. For example, if a particular county requested for the construction of boreholes or rehabilitation of clinics and hospitals, the BAC then recommends Parliament to avail resources for that. This in turn ensures that the National Budget deals with bigger projects of national concern.
8.6 The delegation noted that the BAC comprises of 26 Members who then are divided into smaller teams of two or three MPs and staff to visit the various counties to gather the views of the people.
8.7 The delegation was informed that the Parliamentary Service Commission also appears before the BAC to table and defend their estimates and proposed expenditure for Parliament every year. The Committee on Justice also deliberates on the estimates and proposed expenditure by the Judiciary and latter tables before the BAC for approval.
8.8 It was established that once the budget has been approved by Parliament, the Constitution mandates the National Assembly to authorise withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund the money needed for expenditure by the two arms of the State, namely Parliament and Judiciary. Article 221 (6) states that; “When the estimates of national government expenditure, and the estimates of expenditure for the Judiciary and Parliament have been approved by the National Assembly, they shall be included in an
Appropriation Bill, which shall be introduced into the National
Assembly to authorise the withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund
of the money needed for the expenditure, and for the appropriation of that money for the purposes mentioned in the Bill.”
8.9 Thus, Article 221 (6) enables Parliament and Judiciary to withdrew from the Consolidated Fund and plan their own activities for the year without relying much on piecemeal disbursements parcelled out by the Ministry of Finance as is the case in Zimbabwe. This allows for complete separation of power and allows the three arms of the State to execute their mandate effectively.
9.0 ROLE OF THE CONTROLLER OF THE BUDGET
9.1 Part 6 of the Constitution of Kenya establishes the office of the Controller of the Budget. The office is responsible for all approval of the withdrawals and disbursements at both the national and county levels from the Consolidated Fund. The Controller of the budget works closely with the National Treasury. He/She controls all budget disbursements and submit quarterly reports on the implementation of the budget to Parliament, highlighting all the achievements and challenges on implementation of the budget on both the national and county level.
9.2 The office is specifically aimed at promoting transparency and accountability by ensuring that funds are released only for budgeted activities and thus, any unauthorised activity is not funded.
9.2 The Controller of the budget only holds office for a term of eight years only and shall not be eligible for re-appointment.
10.0 ROLE OF THE COMMISSION OF REVENUE
ALLOCATION
10.1 The Constitution of Kenya also created the Commission of Revenue Allocation, which is responsible for recommending the allocation of the national revenue between the national government and the counties based on the principle of equitably sharing of revenue by the government.
10.2 The delegation established that the Commission comprises of nine members appointed based on the political parties represented in both houses of Parliament and are not Members of Parliament.
10.3 It was established that both houses must agree on the division of revenue between the national government and the counties.
However, the delegation also established that during the 20192020 budget, both houses failed to agree on revenue allocation thereby stalling the budget process. When such challenges happen, the President through the presidential powers is expected to break the impasse and allocate the revenue based on his own discretion.
11.0 MONITORING AND EVALUATION OF THE BUDGET
11.1 The delegation noted that mechanisms for monitoring and evaluating the budget in Kenya were already in place. It was established that monitoring of the budget implementation is strictly done by the Executive through the State Department of Planning.
11.2 It was highlighted that there were Planning and Monitoring Units in every Ministry which directly reports to the State Department on Planning on all budgetary matters. The reports submitted by the
Planning and Monitoring Units to the State Department on Planning are also forwarded to the Controller of the budget and these reports feed into his/her quarterly reporting to Parliament on budget implementation.
11.3 However, challenges were raised relating to ministries and State departments failing to submit monthly and quarterly reports timeously or not reporting as effectively as possible.
11.4 It was noted that there were cases of Non-Compliance with the legislative provisions on public finance management leading to the departmental committees bringing to book the Cabinet Secretaries for the relevant ministries. Parliament of Kenya is strongly involved in providing oversight on the work of the Executive and bringing them to account.
11.5 The delegation observed that Parliament has the right to recommend for the dismissal of a Cabinet Secretary once satisfied that he/she has failed to discharge the mandate of the office
represented or in the event that his/her performance is not satisfactory.
12.0 MEETING WITH THE BUDGET AND APPROPRIATION
COMMITTEE (BAC)
12.1 The delegation witnessed the BAC in session as it considers
Private Member’s Bills which have financial implications to the
National Budget. Tabled before the Committee was the
Information Communication Technology (ICT) Practitioners Bill,
2019 and the National Construction Authority (NCA) (Amendment) Bill, 2019.
12.2 The ICT Practitioners Bill was sponsored by Hon. Godfrey Otsotsi with the support of the leader of the majority in the National Assembly while the NCA Amendment was sponsored by an individual Member of Parliament, Hon. David Gikaria.
12.3 The delegation established that all Bills that have any financial implications to the National Budget are tabled before the BAC for analysis and Bill costing. The PBO plays a significant role in this regard. It provides an analysis of the Bills and costs them in terms of their financial implications to the National Budget.
12.4 The PBO submits to the Committee the Bill analysis with THREE POLICY OPTIONS for the Committee to consider based on what is called the ‘Three Scenarios,’ as follows;(i) Accept the proposal as it is, or (ii) Pass with amendments, or (iii) Reject the proposal.
12.4 The delegation was informed that the Committee Clerk to the BAC is from the PBO. This has had greater impact on the production of minutes and reports for the Committee.
13.0 MEETING WITH THE FINANCE AND PLANNING
COMMITTEE (OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE)
13.1 The delegation attended a committee session of the Finance and Planning Committee whose main mandate focuses on public finance, monetary policies, public debt, financial institutions, investment, revenue policies, planning and national development.
The Committee oversees the work of the Ministry of Finance and
Planning and Kenya Revenue Authority, among other key
government department. In terms of implementation of the budget, the Committee relies on the quarterly reports tabled in the House by the Controller of the budget. The Committee also relies significantly on the work of the PBO in terms of analysis of key documents tabled before the Committee.
13.2 The Committee comprises of 19 members drawn from the various political parties and educational background. The delegation established that during the budget process, the Committee is mainly seized with the analysis of the Budget Policy Statement, in particular the revenue raising measures, therein.
13.3 The delegation learnt that prior to the enactment of the Constitution, the BAC and the Finance and Planning Committee used to operate as one Committee. However, it was noted that the current status quo whereby the two Committees were split into two has brought its own challenges. The members of the Committee felt that their role was split, hence they do not have a full appreciation of what is transpiring on both side of the public purse,
i.e. the demand and supply side, hence concurred that the Zimbabwe set up was much better in terms of overseeing the national purse rather than the status quo in Kenya.
13.4 On the revenue raising measures, the delegation noted that the Committee was very powerful in terms of fixing the taxes to be levied on the people of Kenya each financial year. It was established that no tax is levied on the people of Kenya without the approval of Parliament.
13.5 A case in point was the 16% Petroleum Tax that was proposed by the Executive in 2017. The tax stimulated a lot of debate as the people of Kenya were against the levying of the tax. The Committee on Finance and Planning tabled a report proposing that the tax remains at 0%. Therefore, in order to address the impasse, the President intervened and eventually used his Presidential powers to enact the tax legislation. Therefore, the Bill was eventually passed at 8% on the basis of the presidential memorandum put to the House and voted for by the whole house.
Thus, the delegation was fully convinced of the powers of the Committee in terms of its representative and legislative role.
13.5 The delegation also established that the Committee has the powers to change and propose new revenue raising measures in consultation with key stakeholders. The Executive has no right to levy a tax that has not been approved by Parliament.
14.0 CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND (CDF)
14.1 During the deliberations, the delegation was also interested in understanding how the CDF is implemented in Kenya. The delegation was informed that the planning and budgeting for CDF was done at the national level under the national government. Counties only focus on the development of their respective areas, while CDF funds are mainly aimed at infrastructure development. As set out in the Kenya Constitution, the CDF funds are administered through a National Board and implemented through the constituency offices.
14.2 The delegation established that for the year 2018/2019, each Member of Parliament got SH109 040 875.52 (equivalent of USD1 090 408.75) as CDF. The amount is not fixed and it varies depending on the approved budget for the ensuing year.
14.3 At the constituency level, the Member of Parliament sits in the CDF Committee as a Committee Member and does not chair the meeting due to conflict of interest. However, the MP plays a pivotal role in the selection process of the committee members.
15.0 COURTESY CALL ON THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARIANS NETWORK AGAINST
CORRUPTION (APNAC) KENYA
15.1 The delegation paid a courtesy call on the Chairperson of APNAC Kenya, Hon. Shakeel Shabbir Ahmed. The purpose of the visit was to gain some insights on how APNAC, Kenya has been operating as a lobby group of Parliamentarians fighting corruption. Hon. Ahmed highlighted that APNAC has become Africa’s leading
network of parliamentarians working to strengthen Parliamentary capacity to fight corruption and promote good governance.
15.2 The delegation established that the Kenya Chapter was initiated in
February 2001, through the efforts of the former Member of
Parliament for Webuye Constituency, Hon. Musikari Kombo
(former Chairman of a Parliamentary Anti-Corruption Select Committee). The delegation was informed that prior to the establishment of APNAC Kenya in 2001, the Kenya Chapter of
Parliamentary Caucus was formed to support the work of the Parliamentary Select Committee on Anti-Corruption.
15.3 At its inauguration, APNAC secretariat was supported by Transparency International Kenya. The current President of
APNAC Africa, Hon. Justin B. Muturi, Speaker of the National Assembly of the Republic of Kenya has been very supportive and has strengthened the position of APNAC Kenya Chapter. The Hon.
Speaker is also the Chair of APNAC Africa Executive Council.
Currently, the APNAC KENYA Secretariat is served by four members of staff.
15.4 The delegation established that APNAC Kenya comprises of more than 40 Members of Parliament drawn from all the political divide, including two senators. Membership to the Kenyan Chapter is voluntary comprising of members passionate about fighting corruption.
15.5 Hon. Ahmed highlighted that the Chapter has already developed a code of conduct and membership guidelines in line with the provisions of the Leadership and Integrity Act of 2012, Public
Officer Ethics Act 2003, Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes
Act 2003 and the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC). He noted that as the Kenya Chapter, all APNAC members were made to read and sign the Code of Conduct and
Guidelines as commitment to serve the Chapter.
15.6 The delegation learnt that APNAC Kenya has had milestone achievements between 2001 and 2008, which included among others, the following;
- Spearheaded the drafting and enactment of the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Bill, Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC), Leadership and Integrity Act (LIA),
Access to Information Act and Bribery Act.
- Advocated for the country to ratify the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) in 2003 and the establishment of the Anti-corruption division of the High Court.
- Currently, pushing for the enactment of the whistle blowers and witnesses’ protection law and towards Kenya’s ratification of the African Charter on Democracy, Election and Good
Governance.
16.0 VISIT TO THE KIKUYU CONSTITUENCY
16.1 The Committee was invited to Kikuyu Constituency by Hon. Kimani Ichung’wa (Chairperson of the BAC)to witness the issuing
of birth certificates to the Shona community from Zimbabwe, which has been part of the stateless community since around 1960s when they entered Kenya as missionaries.
16.2 The delegation was informed that the Shona community living in Kenya is estimated to be more than 2000, of which some of them are living in Kinoo location of Chief. J. Kimemia. The Government of Kenya facilitated for the issuance of the registration of credentials as measures to integrate them into the Kenyan community so that they can claim their rights as citizens of Kenya.
16.3 The Shona community was living in Kenya illegally, without the proper documentation to facilitate for the right to education and health or to seek employment and many other benefits essential to citizens of a country.
16.4 It was a sombre moment for the delegation to witness the occasion.
17.0 Key Committee Observations and Recommendations
Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development | ||||
Observation | Recommendation | Responsibility | Timeframe | |
17.1 | There is no complete separation of power between Parliament and the Executive in Zimbabwe as is the case in Kenya. Parliament of Kenya completely owns the ‘Power of the Purse.’ | That the Executive completely surrenders the ‘power of the purse’ to Parliament and allow the concept of separation of power to dominate between the Executive and Legislature especially on all budgetary matters. | Parliament and
Ministry of Finance |
On going engagements |
17.2 | During the budget process, all Portfolio
Committees of Parliament in Zimbabwe table reports in the House, while in Kenya, all the Departmental Committees submits their budget analysis reports to the BAC, which in turns tables a consolidated report in Parliament |
That Parliament adopts the practice, whereby all Portfolio Committees submit their reports to the Finance and Economic Development Committee, which compiles a consolidated
report for tabling in the National Assembly. This process will facilitate for presentation of one report that speaks to all issues without contradictions that usually arise from each committee presenting its own report and ensure more time is left for debate of the national budget. |
Parliament
Administration |
Beginning Third Session of the
9thParliament |
17.3 | Parliament of Kenya through the Budget and Appropriations Committee and with the assistance of the
Parliamentary Budget Office, has an enhanced role in the budget cycle.
|
That the operation of the PBO be backed up by legislation.
Increase the staff complement of the PBO to adequately support the work of the Budget, Finance and Economic Development Committee and other committees of Parliament. |
Parliament
Administration, Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development and Ministry of Finance |
By 31
December 2019 |
17.4 | The Portfolio
Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development conducts budget consultations throughout the country to traditional city venues whereas the |
That the Budget, Finance and
Economic Development Committee strives to visit new centres every year for budget consultations and avoid repeating the same old venues. For the 5-year life of Parliament, the Committee |
Parliament Administration and Committee on Budget, Finance and
Economic Development |
Third Session of the 9th Parliament |
Budget Consultations in Kenya are conducted every year by the BAC, which ensures that by the end of the 5 year life of Parliament, all 47 counties have been visited. | must have reached out to the grassroots. | |||
17.5 | There is no clear monitoring and evaluation of government projects in Zimbabwe throughout budget implementation. The Government of Kenya has in place adequate measures for monitoring and evaluation of the budget performance. | That the Government of Zimbabwe through the Ministry
of Finance establishes a Monitoring and Evaluation mechanism to monitor government projects |
Ministry of
Finance and Parliament |
By 31
December 2019 |
17.6 | The Secretariat serving the Committee on Budget, Finance and
Economic Development is inadequate. In Kenya, the BAC is clerked by a Committee Clerk who is a full time staff from the PBO. In addition to that, the Committee is served by staff permanently attached from the PBO and a Researcher from the Research Department. |
That the Committee on Budget,
Finance and Economic Development Committee be adequately capacitated by investing in more staff to serve the Committee on a full time basis. The Committee Clerk must be selected from the Parliament Budget Office. |
Parliament
Administration |
By December 2019 |
Other Recommendations | ||||
Observation | Recommendation | Responsibility | Timeframe | |
17.7 | While the two Parliaments are administered by the Committee on
Standing Rules and |
That the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders be transformed in terms of its composition to strictly comprise of Backbenchers in terms of its | CSRO
|
|
Orders (Zimbabwe) and the Parliamentary Service Commission (Kenya), which are equivalent in terms of their roles and functions, the two differs in terms of composition. | composition to ensure complete separation of power between the Executive and Parliament
|
|||
17.8 | Parliament of Kenya owns a Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit to broadcast all parliament business to media houses | That Parliament seriously considers establishing a Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit to be managed commercially. | Parliament
Administration |
|
17.9 | Parliament of
Zimbabwe manually records attendance of MPs in the House while Parliament of Kenya uses biometric registration, which is more efficient and cost-effective. |
While Parliament has adopted
biometric registration for all Hon. Members attending Parliament and Committees as measures to reduce human errors and enhance operational efficiency of the institution, the equipment is lying idle and not being used. It is recommended that the implementation process be expedited. |
Parliament
Administration |
Immediately |
I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker,
the visit to the Parliament of Kenya was a real eye opening experience. Our first port of call as the Chairperson has said when we started to do our serious business was – [HON. ZHOU: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker, can I be protected. Can Hon. Zhou be disciplined?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zhou.
HON. MADZIMURE: When we visited the Parliamentary
Budget Office Mr. Speaker, the moment you walk into the building itself and the offices later you have the sense that you are getting into a real office where serious business is carried out. The layout in the office is professional. The directors in the offices are highly qualified people with adequate staff and infrastructure around them in terms of equipment and I.T gadgets that they have and also the ability of the office to do serious research as it advises the Budget Committee.
Mr. Speaker, you find that whenever a Bill is proposed, this particular office researches, makes a presentation and recommends to Members and it will be up to the Members to analyse the information before them that would have been prepared by professionals who have got all the resources to do so. It becomes so easy for a committee to make decisions that are fully informed. This happens Madam Speaker whenever a Financial Bill in Kenya comes before Parliament. It does not matter whether it is under whatever Ministry but as long as it involves money, it goes before the Budget Office and they make the necessary recommendations.
Their budget process Madam Speaker is adhered to. It is a process that is well-funded and it should be repeated as it should be repeated. This is completely different from our process where we struggle to get the funds to do what we are supposed to do. In Kenya, it is obvious that the work has to be carried out. There is a very good reason why that is possible. This is because there is real separation of powers between the Executive and Parliament.
Madam Speaker, we were amazed to find out that when the Secretary from the Treasury comes to the House, they actually use the backdoor. There is a desk by the backdoor where they get in, make their presentation and get out of the House. Between the Executive and Parliament, there is a well structured difference. The budget strategy paper Madam Speaker, is one important thing that happens in Kenya which we do not have here in Zimbabwe. A budget strategic paper is important in the sense that you first look at the focus. What is it that you want to achieve. When you have got that information, you can now start thinking about how you are going to make resources available. In our case, we do not know what is going to happen and the intentions of the Executive. In Kenya, a budget paper is prepared and presented to Parliament, Parliament looks at it and other issues that they think are important that are not covered in the strategic paper
S: t505515 3rd March, 2020
and then make the recommendations to Treasury so that the budget is prepared. Parliament is the one that will then pass that particular budget, making sure that all they recommended has been taken care of. There must be discourse, an agreement - and what makes that process very important is that there is a buy inn. You all know what is going to come out, what you intend to do as a country and the support that you give to the Executive to make sure that whatever is in the budget, what we intended to do has been realised.
So, Parliament and the Executive will then not struggle to ensure that the budget passes. It becomes so easy because we all know what we want to achieve. It also takes away the situation where people are whipped to pass a budget. Why should we be whipped to pass a budget? The moment you whip people to pass a budget, it means you are not sure that the budget is meant to serve the people. There must be total agreement from both sides. We must all pass the budget cheerfully, not under duress where we will all be complaining that we are made to pass this budget because the Executive wants the budget to be passed. Sometimes, as the Hon. Member said, it is because we want to be given cars - cars are not an issue in Kenya Madam Speaker. A parliamentarian drives a car of his/her choice. As part of the budget – how it also works, even the security of the Members of Parliament is guaranteed in Kenya.
If you want police protection, it is given, because there are several reasons why you would want to be protected; it happens in Kenya because the provision in the budget is there. The Chair has covered quite a lot and I will just touch on some. The issue of the Comptroller of the Budget, this is very important. When a budget is passed you then look at the outturn of the budget. How do you do it? It must be monitored; you must ensure that the money that is supposed to be disbursed is disbursed on time.
In our case, we have allocated ministries and departments certain amounts of money but on several occasions they do not get what they would have been allocated. Again, it takes us back to the issue of the budget paper. If we had agreed that this is how we are going to spend the money, we will also have discussed on how we are going to fund the budget. So whenever you agree on a certain amount for a ministry, it must then be disbursed to that ministry so that when it fails to perform, it will be the ministry that would have failed to perform and this will now be looked at when you do monitoring and evaluation of the budget. In Kenya they have offices that do that. Monitoring and evaluation, that is the only way you can guarantee economic development because the next time when you fund a project, you know exactly where you will have left the project at, and also the issue of corruption and manipulating figures, you can actually discover that as you monitor the budget.
The other issue that I would want to raise Madam Speaker is the issue of CDF. Madam Speaker in our country the little money that we get; it is so difficult for Members of Parliament sometimes even to acquit what they will have received, why? It is because we do not have a structure that manages the CDF, in Kenya they have a board, in the constituency there is a real office, well equipped with staff from a director going downwards. They can account for every cent. The
Member of Parliament’s influence is on the selection of the office bearers and the Member of Parliament also participates in identifying the projects. We went to one constituency which was near Nairobi where we saw a number of our relatives there. I even found out that they are a lot of vanamadyira ikoko and it was quite a touching experience because these people had never met their colleagues from home.
In that particular constituency, the Member of Parliament who took us there recommended that a school be built and we witnessed that, we saw a school that was fully funded by the CDF. There were community halls that were fully funded by CDF and the Member of Parliament in consultation with the community will have identified the need for that particular project. So, the recommendation is that even in Zimbabwe with the little that we are given, there must be enough money to ensure that there is an office in the constituency and at least there is someone who accounts for the CDF not then to expect the Committee that is constituted like almost randomly and there is no one who is directly accountable. You make the Member of Parliament accountable for the CDF and because he will just have failed to produce books properly because we are not accountants, then you find the auditors saying the
Member of Parliament misused the money. Why should be Member of Parliament be responsible for the actually spending of the CDF? Let us put the structures in place that manage the CDF. If we want to do it, we do it fully, let there be officers who will manage the CDF and again if you then have officers, obviously you have to increase the CDF so that it becomes meaningful.
The Africa Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption
(APNAK) chapter in Kenya is quite well established and it contributes towards the making of laws that pertain to the fighting against corruption and it is well recognised. The Kenyan Speaker is also currently the head of APNAK Africa, he is the Chair actually at the moment in some countries they call him a president. They have got their offices at the National Assembly.
Madam Speaker on the recommendations, I think the Chairperson read out all the recommendations and I am totally in support of the recommendations that the Committee came up with. With those few remarks, I urge this Parliament to take a leaf from what Kenya does because it is progressive, it strengthens their democracy, it also gives
Parliament its corrective position in society as the people’s representative. I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th March, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 21 has been disposed
of.
HON. NDIWENI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND
CHILD CARE ON THE PETITION FROM THE SOCIETY FOR THE
PRE AND POST NATAL SERVICES (SPANS) ON THE STATE OF
AFFAIRS IN THE PROVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES
HON. NDIWENI: I move the motion that this House takes note of the
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care on the Petition from the Society for the Pre and Post Natal Services (SPANS) on the State of Affairs in the Provision of Mental Health Services in Zimbabwe.
HON. WATSON: I second.
HON. NDIWENI: 1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.2 Pursuant to Section 149 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, the Society for Pre and Post Natal Services (SPANS) petitioned the Parliament of Zimbabwe on the provision of mental health services in Zimbabwe. Accordingly, the petition was referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care for consideration and appropriate actioning. To this end, the Portfolio Committee considered and resolved to inquire into the issues raised in the petition.
2.0 OBJECTIVES
The objectives of the enquiry were:
2.1. To assess the state of affairs of the mental health services in terms of medicines and drugs situation, infrastructure and human resources;
2.2. To appreciate challenges that this sector is faced with; and 2.3. To recommend possible solutions for improved mental health service delivery in Zimbabwe.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee held two separate oral evidence meetings with the
Minister of Health and Child Care, Hon. Obadiah Moyo and the Permanent Secretary, Dr. Agnes Mahomva. In addition, the Committee undertook fact finding visits to mental health institutions, central and provincial hospitals.
3.1 Oral Evidence Sessions
3.1.1 The Minister of Health and Child Care, Dr. Obadiah Moyo, appeared before the Committee on the 10th of April, 2019 to brief the Committee on the policy measures that are in place to ensure the implementation of the National Health Strategy with regards the provision of mental health in Zimbabwe.
3.1.2 The Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Health and Child Care appeared before the Committee on the 23rd of July 2019 to brief the
Committee on why the Mental Health Review Tribunal Board has not been meeting to assess the continued detention of both civilly committees and forensic patients in the the mental healthcare institutions.
3.2 Fact Finding Visits
3.2.1 The Committee undertook fact finding visits to the mental health institutions, central and provincial hospitals namely: Ingutsheni and
Ngomahuru Psychiatric Hospitals, Mlondolozi and Chikurubi Forensic
Psychiatric Units, Gweru, Masvingo, Bindura, Chinhoyi and Gwanda
Provincial Hospitals, St. Luke’s Mission Hospital, Harare and Mpilo, Parirenyatwa and United Bulawayo Central Hospitals. The fact finding visits took place from 14-20 July 2019 with the exception of the visit to Chikurubi Forensic Unit which took place on the 16th of June 2019 during a field tour organized by the National AIDS Council (NAC).
4.0 FINDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE
4.1 COMMON CAUSES OF MENTAL HEALTH
DISEASES
4.1.1 The most common known causes of mental health diseases are: Anxiety disorder:-i.e depression and stress; and Drug and substance abuse: i.e marijuana and alcohol. Giving oral evidence before the Committee on the 10th of April 2019, Dr. Mangwiro stated that most mental health issues are Non-Communicable Disease related - for example, diabetes and hypertension which, for long, have been neglected. Dr. Mangwiro added that when mothers are pregnant and suffering from diabetes or hypertension, there are chances of having children who are born with mental cases due to deformities. Depression can come because a child is born with an open spina bifida or with a hole in the heart. Diabetes can lead to a lot of complications in children.
4.2 INGUTSHENI PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTION
4.2.1 Ingutsheni hospital was established in 1908. It has 14 wards and
a
separate home (St. Francis) for children with learning and severe mental disabilities whose ages range from 5-16 years. The hospital has a bed capacity of 708 and experiences an increasing attendance each month. The average number of in-patients per day is 550+ mostly from substance and drug abuse. The monthly bed occupancy rate for 2018 was 78.13% compared to January to June 2019 rate which was at 81%. The Hospital attends to an average of 2000 out patients per month. It offers OI/ART services with 665 patients registered on ART.
4.2.2 In 2018, the hospital experienced a 200% increase in financing from the government compared to 2017. The 2019 disbursement as of 15 July 2019 was $2.4 million against an initial budget allocation of $1.6 million.
4.2.3 The hospital benefited from the Health levy account funds. To date, the hospital has spent in excess of $1 million of the Health levy fund on Central Nervous System (CNS) medicines and hospital assets.
However, the price instability of drugs on the market since October 2018 has presented the institution with procurement challenges (price changes and quotation). At the time of the visit, the hospital reported 75% availability of
the required CNS medicines from NatPharm.
4.2.4 The current price instability has also eroded the value of staff salaries and reduced the salaries by more than 80% in real terms. Staff has remained committed but they are really struggling to make ends meet.
4.2.5 Due to price instability on the market, the Hospital Executive came up with mitigatory measures to ensure the availability of medicines, food, and other basic necessities. The mitigation strategies include: Bulk procurement of supplies, Procurement of bulk fuel at the hospital and increased efficiency on the use of available resources. Reduced procurement lead times and continuous follow up on payments with MOHCC and Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. The hospital engaged the Infrastructure Development Bank of Zimbabwe (IDBZ) for construction of residential accommodation on site in a proposed Built-Operate-Transfer (BOT) project that would generate revenue for the institution through rentals. The Hospital also partners with
Civil Society Organisations.
4.2.6 Ingutsheni has a shortage of staff which includes: clinical psychologists, general psychiatrists and forensic psychiatrists (with the only forensic psychiatrist the hospital having, resigned in May 2019). The hospital is critically in need of 95 additional nurses, and more security guards.
4.2.7 The Health Levy account has made significant difference with regards to medicines. The Hospital gets support from management at NATPHARM and they have 75 % availability of CNS medicines.
4.3 ST. FRANCIS HOME
4.3.1. St. Francis Home is a mental health hospital for children with severe physical and mental problems. It has a bedding capacity of 60 beds and currently there are 50 patients:- 30 girls and 20 boys. The youngest is 5 years old and the oldest is 26 years (incapacitated). You would wonder I said 5 – 16 years old but this 20 year old was incapacitated.
4.3.2 St. Francis has a shortage of staff as evidenced by the non- availability of a speech therapist. There are no daily activities for the patients and this causes children to have bed sores because they will spend most of their time sleeping. The staff attends to them 2- 3 days a week and they are in need of additional manpower to help them carry those patients around.
4.3.3 There is a nursery ward at St Francis which accommodates
11
children ranging from 5 months to 1year. However, there are some who are 16 years but because they are incapacitated they cannot mix them with other teenage patients.
4.3.4 There is shortage of ablution facilities at St. Francis as evidenced
by having only 5 working bathrooms out of 13.
5.0 NGOMAHURU PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTION
5.1 Background
5.1.1 The institution was built in the early 1920s by the Dutch
Reformed Church as a Leprosy Hospital. The Rhodesian Government took over the management of the institution from the Dutch Missionaries in 1925. The institution was converted into a tuberculosis sanatorium in
1945 till the end of 1968 and became a psychiatric unit in January 1969.
5.1.2 Ngomahuru has three (3) admission wards namely acute ward
for male patients, Villa 3 for males and Villa 2 for the female patients.
The
hospital has a bed capacity of 100 in-patients per ward of which 80% are resident.
5.1.3 Ngomahuru admits patients who are 18 years and above and
in
rare occasions 16 years. Thus, the institution does not offer infants and adolescents mental health services.
5.1.4 Ngomahuru also has a Rehabilitation Department. It has a
Halfway Home and two (2) resettlement schemes for patients who have nowhere to go after being discharged.
5.2 Finances
5.2.1 All services rendered to patients are for free and therefore, solely rely on Government of Zimbabwe for funding. The institution augments these funds through running small scale projects such as the Soweto Bar and Tuckshop and the Grinding Mill. However, of late, these projects were reported to be having viability challenges owing to the prevailing economic hardships and also inadequate financial support from the Government of Zimbabwe.
5.2.2 In the 2019 budget, the institution had bided for $1.5 million but was allocated $400 000.00. Of the allocated money, only $110 000.00 was released in February 2019 but the institution had not accessed the released funds at the time of the visit by the Committee.
5.2.3 It was reported that the institution does not have a functional
Public Finance Management System.
5.3 Service Delivery
5.3.1 Ngomahuru treats the following top five (5) mental conditions: Drug Induced Psychosis, Schizophrenia, Acute Psychosis, Organic Psychosis and Epilepsy. It was reported that the prevalence of drug induced psychosis is on the increase and has become the top condition.
5.4 Patient Management
5.4.1 Ngomaguru gets its drug supply from Natpharm through the
Health Levy. However, there are no refrigerators for patients’ medicines and there is shortage of lockable medicine trolleys.
5.4.2 Patients have inadequate linen, e.g blankets, jerseys, uniforms,
bed sheets, mattresses and shoes. It was further reported that the institution had no detergents since the beginning of 2019 due to financial constraints.
5.4.3 Medicine stock supply status was as follows: Vital medicines-
92%; Essential medicines-76% and Necessary medicines-57%
5.5 Human Resources
5.5.1 The hospital officials reported that due to the current freeze the following critical posts are vacant: Clinical Psychologist (1);
Psychiatrist (1) Accounting Assistant (1); X-Ray Operator Principal (1);
Occupational Trainer (1); Government Medical Officer (1) and Matron Grade111 (1). Furthermore, it was stated that there is shortage of trained mental nurses (15 out of a possible of 52) due to lack of incentives.
5.5.2 It was also highlighted that there is under-establishment in posts such as drivers, typists, and hospital security guards and that staff uniforms for general hands, nurse aides, drivers among others is not provided regularly.
5.5.3 The Committee was also informed that staff at the institution was not benefitting from none monetary incentives such as vehicle loans, housing loans, and residential stands schemes.
5.5.4 The Committee was further informed that the morale of staff is low due to the unattractive salaries that they are currently being paid.
5.6 Laboratory Department
5.6.1 The Full Blood Count (FBC) machine was reported to be overdue for service and currently not being used because it was giving wrong readings and was taken to Masvingo Provincial Hospital for service. It was also reported that most of the reagents were out of stock.
5.7 Infrastructure and Equipment
It was reported that the institution is in need of the following: functional drainage system; furniture for both patients and staff; new blair toilets; mobile generators; photocopying machine; refurbishment of the Soweto Bar and Tuck Shop; reliable internet and telephone services; construction of a Baby Nursery and Female Halfway Home; construction of a proper Nurses Home and dormitories; refurbishment, construction and electrification of staff houses; installation of solar power system; good road networks; incinerator; laundry machine; and fuel tanks installation
6.0 MLONDOLOZI FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIC
INSTITUTION
6.1 At the time of the visit by the Committee, the institution had a total of 391 deemed mentally challenged inmates against a staff strength of 153 officers. In addition, the institution also had two babies in its care. Of the above-mentioned total number, 73 were females while
318 were males. It was reported that the ideal would be a staff establishment of 250 officers.
6.2 Human Resources
6.2.1 Staff morale of the officers at the institution was reported to be good and duties were being discharged as expected of them. However, it was indicated that there is a serious need for a forensic psychiatrist and more female and male officers. It was also requested that there be consideration to incentivise the general duty officers as is the case with medical professionals.
6.2.2 Although the institution has a post for a pharmacist, this post is still vacant and the institution has to do with a Dispensary Assistant and a Pharmaceutical Technician.
6.2.3 The institution also does not have an occupational therapist hence, no rehabilitation of patients.
6.2.4 It was reported that the institution does not have specially trained staff for inmates with disabilities.
6.3 Basic Necessities for Inmates
6.3.1 It was reported that food situation at the institution was generally fair as they could afford to provide inmates with three (3) meals per day. However, there is serious lack of nutrients in the food especially the animal protein resulting in 32 cases of pellagra.
6.3.2 It was reported that the institution is facing challenges in the provision of the following: detergents, sanitary wear, laundry soap and other toiletries such as toothpaste and teeth brushes; baby clothing and diapers for babies born in prison and those admitted from court.
6.3.3 There is acute shortage of uniforms for Mentally Detained Patients leading to the institution resorting to using khaki uniforms meant for remand prisoners.
6.3.4 The institution’s kitchen needs renovations as they are currently using one (1) pot out of the four (4) that they are supposed to use.
6.4 Transport
6.4.1 As a Specialist Institution, Mlondolozi usually refers patient and pregnant inmates to Central Hospitals for further management hence, ambulances are needed to carter for emergencies. The institution does not have an ambulance.
6.4.2 The institution did not have a court truck for female inmates since they are currently ferrying them together with male inmates from
Khami Remand prison to the court using a truck borrowed from Ntabazinduna Training Centre.
6.5 Projects
6.5.1 The institution was running a broiler chicken project at the time of the visit by the Committee. However, the project was facing viability challenges due to fluctuation of prices owing to the economic hardships that are currently prevailing in the country.
6.5.2 The institution intended to venture into a nutritional garden and fish projects outside the prison but it had funding challenges to kick start them.
6.6 Health
6.6.1 It was reported that the institution had acute shortage of anti- psychotics drugs. This scenario has resulted in officers facing difficulties in controlling patients owing to violent behavior;
6.6.2 The institution gets very little allocation of drugs from Natpharm. It sometimes borrows from Ingutsheni Psychiatric Institution which can only give what is extra to them and not what the institution requires.
6.6.3 It was reported that the Mlondolozi Special Board and the Mental Health Review Tribunal Board have not been sitting as expected resulting in some patients relapsing due to prolonged stay in prison. It was further reported that Criminal Mental Patients that were detained in 2008/2009 were still at the institution at the time that the Committee made the visit.
6.6.4 Contrary to the above findings by the Committee, the
Permanent Secretary for the MoHCC appeared before the Committee on the 23rd of July 2019 and informed the Committee that the Tribunal Board did not have any outstanding cases for Mentally Detained Patients in prison settings.
6.6.5 The Committee was informed that there were no facilities at the institution for pregnant female inmates. Furthermore, it was stated that there were no health preventive service as well as Visual Inspection with Acetic Acid and Camera (VIAC) for cancer screening.
6.6.6 It was also reported that the institution had no rehabilitation activities.
6.7. Challenges
- Shortage of male and female officers to man yards, gangs, courts and hospital duties
- Unavailability of sanitary wear, diapers, detergents, laundry soaps and other toiletries
- Unavailability of utility vehicles for smooth operation of the institution
- Lack of printer to print patients’ documents Shortage of kitchen pots to cook for the inmates
- Erratic supply of cooking oil.
- Mental Health Act is not very clear on roles and responsibilities of the MoHCC and Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary
Affairs.
7.0 PSYCHIATRIC SERVICES AT CENTRAL AND
PROVINCIAL HOSPITALS
7.1 The Committee visited central and provincial hospitals namely: Harare and Mpilo Central Hospitals; Chinhoyi, Gweru, Gwanda, Masvingo, Bindura and Marondera Provincial Hospitals. Parirenyatwa Annex and United Bulawayo Hospitals were also
visited.
7.2 Finances
7.2.1 Although psychiatric services are being offered for free at all visited government institutions, there is general neglect and low funding prioritisation of psychiatry services at public institutions, with majority failing to even fund occupational therapy and rehabilitation services. At Chinhoyi hospital patients lacked shoes and toiletries. Funds for recreation and repairs of infrastructure are a challenge at all psychiatric institutions.
7.2.2 Lack of funding by the government is well demonstrated at Harare hospital Psychiatry Unit. The Unit is a near state-of-the-art center following a donor sponsored major refurbishment, but has a donated kitchen structure dilapidating without functioning due to lack of funding for fittings and equipment.
7.3 Service delivery
7.3.1 Chinhoyi, Gweru, Masvingo and Gwanda Provincial
Hospitals do not have dedicated psychiatric units resulting in mental health patients being admitted in general wards which are already overcrowded due to lack of space. Patients are referred to either Ingutsheni or Ngomahuru Psychiatric Institutions for further management.
7.3.2 All the hospitals visited have no paediatrics admitting wards. Harare and Parirenyatwa Hospitals run child psych clinic once every week. Gwanda Hospital does not offer mental health services for infants and adolescents. Masvingo Provincial hospital officials reported that although they do not have a dedicated psychiatric unit for infants, adolescents and adults, when mentally challenged female patients give birth, they are forced to keep the infants at the hospital since Ngomahuru does not have a psychiatric unit for infants and adolescents. In some instances the mentally challenged female patients are refereed to Ngomahuru for further management, leaving their babies at Masvingo Provincial Hospital since Ngomahuru cannot accommodate them.
7.3.2 During an oral evidence meeting, the Minister of Health and Child Care admitted that what the petitioners were raising in the petition was pertinent, appropriate and relevant. He further admitted that there are some deficiencies in the current Mental Health Act and its implementation, hence, the MoHCC has tried to address this through the launch of National Strategy Plan for Mental Health Services sometime in March 2019.
7.3.3 In order to address the mental health challenges, the Minister laid down the following possible measures:
- Integration of mental health in maternal health care:- early screening for all pregnant women and appropriate treatment at the referrals has to be done;
- Train health staff in order to help them identify the risk factors for maternal health challenges and to mitigate against them at an early stage; and
- Train the mothers in responsive parenting and nurturing care as part of primary health education. This can go a long way in helping them to cope with the demands of motherhood.
7.4 Infrastructure and Transport
7.4.1 It was observed that there is no standard set up on psychiatry and
there is clear variances on infrastructure design and state as well as manpower in post from one psychiatric institution to the other.
7.4.2 All psychiatric units visited, except for Harare Hospital (which was well renovated by MSF), have conspicuous infrastructure and security confinements challenges. Chinhoyi has no lockable doors, exposing staff and other patients to danger. There is only one padded seclusion at Harare hospital to cater for the violent and suicidal cases, and none elsewhere.
7.4.3 Halfway homes came out as one main challenge, with Chinhoyi having been allocated a farm but has not managed to erect any structures to functionalise the place. As a result, patients who are stable and due to be released were still admitted at the hospital. Harare and Parirenyatwa Hospitals share Beatrice Farm Halfway Home and each also has a halfway home in separate Harare suburbs. All these homes are said to be inadequately structured and equipped to meet the needs of the mental patients.
7.4.4 Gwanda Provincial Hospital does not have the recommended ambulance with the specialised security features to transport mental health patients during the acute phase of illness. Due to a poor fleet of vehicles, at times, the same ambulance used to transfer medical and surgical patients is the one used to transfer these clients. Follow-ups of the same patients in their homes in the community cannot be done due to lack of a service vehicle dedicated for mental health activities for assessment, health education and supportive services.
7.5 Human Resources
7.5.1 The most close-to-ideal circumstances were at the Harare and
Parirenyatwa psychiatry hospitals, where Occupational Therapists, Psychologists and Psychiatrists including those specialising on children psychiatry were in post.
7.5.2 There was no institution with the recommended nurse to patient ration of 1:3 for acute; 1:1 for violent and 1:5 for chronic cases. Parirenyatwa Annex has the best scenario with 15 nurses for a maximum of up to 55 (though holding capacity is currently at 34 pending renovations) patients. Among some of worst staff shortages witnessed is
Harare Hospital Psychiatric Unit that needs up to 27 more Registered Mental Nurses as well as 15 nurse aids and 9 general hand staff.
Chinhoyi, Gweru, Mpilo, UBH, Gwanda, Masvingo, Marondera, and Bindura hospitals offer psychiatric services but there have shortages of psychiatrists and psychologists which compromises the effective management of patients.
7.5.3 Gwanda Hospital had limited knowledge on the management and care of mental health patients while many rural health centres in Matebelaland South were being manned by general nurses that did not have specialist training in mental health.
7.6 Medicine and Drug Supply
7.6.1 Most of the psychiatric institutions reported an improved supply of medicines for anxiety disorder from Natpharm but, indicated that the situation is not yet ideal, with irregular supplies still being experienced. It was recommended that the country moves from first generation group of medicines to the third generation group of medicines with fewer side effects. Patients often present to the Hospital with side multiples of effects of these medicines. Other medicines used in the management of mental health conditions which are not available at NatPharm are purchased using Health Services Fund (HSF) and/or Results Based Financing (RBF) funding, which has since been eroded by the current economic conditions. The newer, more expensive drugs with lesser side effects are the one most hard to keep in stock and where relatives can afford patience are put on those.
7.6.2 Gweru Provincial Hospital Officials reported that the hospital did not have paediatric medication for children with mental health challenges and even for other mental health patients.
7.6.3 Gwanda Hospital has moved a step further to decentralise the dispensing of psychiatric drugs to the clinics where mentally challenged patients can access medication. It was, however, reported that the hospital has a shortage of some drugs for mental health conditions.
7.7 Rehabilitation Services
7.7.1 Lack of drug and substance abuse rehabilitation expertise and services across the centers was bemoaned. Zimbabwe has no public drugs and substance abuse rehabilitation center. Consequently, cases of Revolving Door Syndrome are common since hospitals cannot offer up to 6 weeks needed to fully recover a patient from an addiction.
7.7.2 During an oral evidence meeting, the Minister of Health and Child Care, Hon. O. Moyo admitted that Zimbabwe lacks rehabilitation services, adding that there are some cases which should not be referred to Ingutsheni directly but can be attended to elsewhere in a friendlier environment. He cited Professor Chibanda’s Friendship Bench initiative as the best model Zimbabwe can adopt. The Minister added that the National Strategy Plan on Mental Health Service requires the Ministry to establish rehabilitation centres not only for mentally depressed people but for those affected by alcohol and substance abuse.
7.8. Of the Visited Provincial Hospitals only Bindura has no Psychiatric Unit and avoids admitting any psych patients since they will be forced to be placed in general wards and sometimes under handcuffs if violent which is not an ideal situation. Bindura District as a whole has no psychiatrist and only has 2 psychiatric nurses at the provincial hospital.
7.9 It was also reported that some patients with mental health challenges in Matebeleland South were not seeking medical treatment due to stigma and myths that the condition was associated with e.g evil spirits or demons.
8.0 COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS
8.1 Observation
The Committee noted with concern the lack of financial support towards the provision of mental health services for the infants, children and adults in the psychiatric institutions it visited, especially, Ngomahuru and Mlondolozi. This has resulted in shortages of medicines, critical staff shortages; balanced diet food, and other basic commodities as this sector does not get donor support.
8.2 Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care
Recommendation Number 1/2020
The Committee recommends that the Government of Zimbabwe should provide adequate financial support to the mental health institution and unfreeze all the critical posts in order to improve service provision by June 2020.
8.3 Observation
The Committee also noted that the infrastructure at mental health institutions is inappropriate and dilapidated.
8.4 Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care
Recommendation Number 2/2020
The Committee recommends that the Government of Zimbabwe provide funds for the provision of the appropriate psychiatric infrastructure e.g padded walls by June 2020.
8.5 Observation
The Committee noted with concern the disconnection in terms of information and what is obtaining on the ground between the Permanent
Secretary of the MoHCC’s Office as exemplified in the cases of
Mlondolozi and Chikurubi Psychiatric Units. In these cases, the Permanent Secretary, Dr. Mahomva claimed that the Tribunal Board sits regularly to address mental health cases whereas findings of the Committee during its fact finding visits revealed that the board did not sit regularly.
8.6 Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care
Recommendation Number 3/2020
The Committee recommends that the officials at the MoHCC must take health issues seriously and be in grips with what is obtaining on the ground by conducting regular verification visits to ensure compliance by ensuring that the established boards are in place and effectively functional with immediate effect. I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not wish to
take time to belabour the report of the Committee on this petition and these issues that surround mental health and mental health institutions in Zimbabwe.
However, I would like to stress the fact that Sustainable
Development Goal No. 3 is for good health and well being for all. What
I would like to buttress on is what the Committee saw. For example, at St. Francis Home which is the home for severely mentally and physically handicapped children; the lack of clinical psychologists, occupational therapists, proper food, proper furniture, proper bathing facilities leaves one with a sense of woeful inadequacy that the Ministry of Health and Child Care has. Yes, whilst it is under-funded, it has almost as great a responsibility to those of our society who are less able to - (a) care for them and (b) care for those whose families have effectively abandoned them. I think that is something that we saw across the specter of the mental health provision.
I would like to stress the Committee’s recommendations in terms of it being also woeful that the gentlemen at Mlondolozi who appealed to the Committee as having already been assessed by the psychiatric staff to be released, who were still there because the relevant tribunal according to him and the psychiatrist, was not even constituted, let alone does not sit regularly. It is also woeful, it is a form of justice denied to people whose states of health and mental ability makes them lower shall we say or in greater need of our protection as Parliament and as ministries.
I would also like to say that it is imperative that the Ministry finds a way of obtaining sufficient ambulances to transport: -
- Mental health patients;
- Sufficient psychiatrists.
Bulawayo for its entire population, for the three institutions, has one fully qualified psychiatrist. It is not possible for mental health in all regards to be dealt with in that situation.
When Hon. Ndiweni spoke, when we went to Umlondolozi, there were more violent mental patients beating on the doors, we could hear them and it was violent because the doors were clearly unpadded and were made of metal. We should not allow as Parliament, Legislators and as people who have oversight over ministries the kind of almost inhuman treatment of those who require our care.
So, I would simply like to uphold and say that the recommendations of the Committee should be seriously looked at by Parliament and the Ministry and should be in fact, dealt with. I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. K. PARADZA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th March, 2020.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON.
MUTSEYAMI the House adjourned at Three Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
[1] In Kenya, a Minister is referred to as a Cabinet Secretary
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the
Senate that there will be a Roman Catholic Church service tomorrow, Wednesday, 3rd March, 2020 at 1230 hours in the Senate Chamber. All
Catholic and non-catholic Members are invited.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST
PROVINCE (HON. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that Orders of the
Day Numbers 1 to 5 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until all the
Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Madam President, I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th March, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST
PROVINCE (HON. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that Order of the Day, Number 7 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE ZIMBABWEAN DELAGATION BILATERAL
VISIT TO CUBA
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwean Delegation to the Bilateral Visit to Havana, Cuba from 1st to 6th September, 2019.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank you so much for the delegation that went to Cuba on a benchmarking visit. We heard that in Cuba they have quite a number of women who occupy decision making positions. I hope as Zimbabwe we can take a leaf from this and ensure that more women occupy decision making spaces. I am happy that in Zimbabwe a woman can take up a managerial post but I feel that the numbers should increase since they are also acquiring the required education for the posts.
I am also concerned about the eviction of embassy staff for failure to pay rentals. It is sad if you are far away from home and you are evicted in a foreign land with nowhere to go for non-payment of rent. We want to thank Madam President for your intervention in assisting the situation as it is embarrassing to have our staff evicted with nowhere to go to. I also want to applaud the use of solar which is a noble idea such that as Zimbabwe if we adopt that it could help us since electricity is expensive. The electricity tariffs have gone up. Yesterday I bought a token for $200 and you do not understand how that can be used in such short space of time. I think the Ministry of Energy should explain to the nation at large on the tariff system. If we are to use solar in rural areas it will alleviate the energy burden especially in rural areas, particularly hospitals where mothers are giving birth in darkness. I urge Zimbabwe to adopt use of solar energy. We once heard of a solar plant in
Chitungwiza but no one knows what became of it. Madam President, I appreciate the delegation that went on the trip. I also want to applaud the assistance that is being given to people living with HIV. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: I want to add a few words to the report on those who went to Cuba from 1 - 6 September, 2019. We want to thank them for the work that they did. We want to applaud them for having many women in decision making levels. We understand they have five Vice Presidents of which three are women; it is something to be proud of. I also heard that they meet twice a month to attend Parliament but the rest of the month they are in the communities because that is where the work is. I think this is a good practice because as MPs we can also be visible in our constituencies. We can adopt some of these practices in stages inasmuch as a child learns how to work.
I want to thank the delegation that represented us and were able to assist. Our request is that the Foreign Affairs Minister should address these issues before it embarrasses the nation. We are aware of the fact that we have other priorities but let us look after our foreign missions.
We want to thank those who managed to save the situation. Madam President, we want to thank you. Some of us are not that educated but you know what we mean when we say certain English words. Our hope is for us to be educated as you are. When we come to Parliament we expect to learn a lot that can assist us in the event that we travel to other countries. Most of the issues were debated by the other Hon. Members. I am sure you went to various places. The other place known as House of – I cannot remember but the country is made up of women. If you give women something to do they do it diligently. Look at what Madam President was able to achieve as a woman. She did well. We also want to thank our President for ensuring that the number of women increases in that they are able to learn a lot from other countries. With these many words, I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me an opportunity to add my voice on the motion before us. Firstly, I want to thank you and your delegation for the trip you undertook to
Cuba. I want to thank the Hon. Members who are debating that women are well represented and working well in terms of governance. It is good that as Zimbabwe if you are able to go and represent us, we feel happy and honoured especially by the fact that you are a woman you were able to address the challenges that the embassy was facing. That is typical of mothers.
Madam President, I want to urge this august Senate that we should request our Finance Minister to seriously look into the issue of our embassies to bring us business. It is because our embassies do not show seriousness, hence we lose business. The ambassador and his team should represent the country well but can only do this if we are organised. If you travel Madam President and you find employees at the embassy complaining of poverty and hunger, it does not paint a good picture, hence we should engage the Minister to look at all the embassies that we have and ensure that the staff in these embassies is well remunerated.
Madam President, I am made to understand and you also realise that Cuba has now adopted the use of solar energy. The issue of solar is very important for us as Zimbabweans because we have a lot of sunshine. The Government must look, especially from the Finance Ministry to see how our people can use solar. The truth is, no one can dispute that electricity is a problem. We should encourage our people to use solar and the Government should take serious steps to see to it that solar has been brought into this country and people are at ease with using it. Government at the moment is the one which is in trouble in providing energy, especially electricity. You are all aware that we are in trouble because of electricity. It is very expensive and scarce but if you can buy your solar panel, you can use it easily and it is not that expensive like electricity. The Government has to look closely on the issue of solar. It is being used everywhere we go, especially in Africa. Our Government has to look into that and take steps to make it easy for Zimbabweans to use it.
Madam President, I want to add on saying the rights for women is very important. In Cuba we saw that women are participating in politics. In this country, we have the Constitution, which gave us 50:50 representation that in all positions of leadership, there must be women holding 50% of those posts. If we have got 100 positions, women have to get 50 positions out of those positions.
The problem in this country is our Constitution has not been aligned. Even culturally we are behind. If you can go on the ground, you will find that women want to elect men because of our culture. We need to educate people that our women can be leaders. Women can do a lot of things which are done by men. It is a problem that the Government has to look at. How are we going to meet the 50:50 representation so that women are found in positions? Madam President, some women are afraid of being leaders. They need education so that they are not afraid to take up positions. It is the responsibility of Government to teach our women that they take up political positions and participate also.
The other thing which is discouraging women is being looked down upon and always being humiliated towards elections. The humiliation of women towards elections is too much. Women are humiliated and looked down upon and therefore we need to make laws that protect women so that they feel safe. Some men stop their spouses from participating in politics because they know they will be humiliated during campaigns. What you did by going to other countries to see what they are doing teaches Members of Parliament who were in the delegation. They came back and moved this motion. As a result of the motion we are learning and now understand how Cuba is operating. We want to thank you for that. Madam President, may you continue doing the good job. We know money can be scarce but we are committed to help. With those few words, I thank you and your delegation.
+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: I would want to congratulate you
Madam President for the job that you are doing. We wish you long life.
After Cuba’s independence and Zimbabwe’s independence, we got an opportunity to go there and see how they are operating. It is quite clear that women are important people. When you arrived in Cuba and realised that our officers there were not well, you tried your level best to solve their problems because you are a proper woman who looks after her children.
Madam President, when you send us, we should not go there to look at negatives but to look at positives so that when we come back, we implement those things. We have learnt from those who went there under your leadership. You were taken to important places. We wish also that our country may attain that status. Your Senate here and women MPs should learn to travel and they should not be afraid to talk. This is why you find women being afraid to take leadership positions. We see some other women with whom we fought our liberation struggle doing well. We heard that people who worked with Fidel Castro are still living. We are happy because we also will be seen as women by others. The most important thing Madam President is that we as women should not laugh at each other. We should not despise each other and we should not segregate each other on political lines. We are here representing the women of Zimbabwe, not necessarily for our parties. We are all women chosen by the people of Zimbabwe that we represent them in this House so we should be united Madam President. May the Lord bless you and continue leading us. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL PROVINCE (HON. MAVHUNGA): Madam President, I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday 4th March, 2020
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND
HEALTH FINANCING IN AFRICA
Nineth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and Health Financing in Africa.
Question against proposed.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to add a few words to this debate. Madam President, we are very proud that our people are able to go and participate in all these international fora. From what I can see, they went to the PanAfrican Parliament and one thing that I am finding quite embarrassing with our country is that we are not paying our subscriptions to all the organisations where we are participants.
On the African continent, we are looked up to very highly by colleagues because we are known for our advanced education, our demeanor and knowledge but we feel very diminished by the state of our affairs. In all the international bodies, I would not be surprised; the only thing that would surprise me is that we are up to date with the Pan-
African Parliament. Is there anything that we can do so that Government puts a provision for us to pay our dues to all the international bodies that we belong to? It is very demeaning to sit there looking very smart and speaking very good English led by very honourable and senior members of our Government and yet we are behind with our payments. We are not behind by one or two years but by four to six years. Really it is not excusable.
If we cannot pay everything, let us be seen to be paying something, even if it is only ten thousand where fifty thousand is needed or twenty thousand where 100 thousand is needed, that would really give us a little bit of a stature. I do not know if the Minister of Finance and Economic Development recognises just how embarrassing it is to be called out by your colleagues year in year out. I am speaking like this because
Madam President, you are the leader of the women in the Pan-African Parliament and the African Parliamentary Union. When we go to these summits, you are required to sit at the front. They will be talking about people in arrears and what the board should do about them. There she is, sitting as one of the leaders and her country has not paid one cent, really it is not good and not acceptable – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear] – what can we do? We need the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to commit a few funds to these things so that before you go on your next errand, something should have been paid long before you go. I thank you Madam President – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Sen.
Makone for bringing that point.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th March 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND PROVINCE (HON. MAVHUNGA), the Senate
adjourned at Eight Minutes past Three O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 27th February, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
INDIA CONSTITUTION DAY CELEBRATIONS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to remind the House that the
Indian Embassy is inviting all Hon. Members of Parliament to attend the India Constitution Day Celebrations to be held today at 1730 hours in the National Chamber.
HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege. My point of privilege is based on practices by medical doctors in the private sector. People religiously paying …
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get the practices…
HON. KASHIRI: Pardon me Mr. Speaker. I have a cold, not Coronavirus though. My point of privilege is looking at the practices of medical doctors in the private sector. What is happening out there Mr. Speaker is, people are religiously paying their medical aid to societies but when one visits a doctor, they are asked to make a co-payment while having a medical aid which is fully subscribed…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, point of privilege must relate to privileges of Hon. Members.
HON. KASHIRI: Yes Mr. Speaker Sir. I was going to ask the relevant authority to safeguard…
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are not addressing issues affecting privilege of Members of Parliament.
HON. KASHIRI: But they do affect in a way, let me give an example, I personaly …
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, sit down.
HON. KASHIRI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I will give a good example
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sit down, sit down, can you sit down.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of
privilege is that in the past two weeks the Minister of Primary and Secondary education announced the hike of 2020 examination fees. As Hon. Members of this august House, we expressed reservations. Yesterday he spoke about one particular group of Zimbabwean people who are expected to be taxed 2%. We asked whether it is the only sector which has an army or the army is a national army. If one sector is taxed then that brings instability. However, if this is generalised, for example AIDS Levy affects everyone. If only civil servants are taxed despite the increment they received …
*THE HON. SPEAKER: How is this affecting the rights of Hon.
Members like you?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker Sir, this brings instability and this could lead to unnecessary demonstrations so I would like the Hon. Minister to come and brief this House what this means and to explain why just a portion is being taxed whilst the rest are not taxed. As people who led trade unions at one point, we believe that this might lead to instability. So the Minister should come and explain why only civil servants, yet the military is not only for civil servants but it is a national army. I believe that the nation should be there for the army.
HON. SACCO: My point of privilege Hon. Speaker touches on the issue of availability of fuel for Hon. Members of this House. We are facing challenges in acquiring fuel to attend Parliament. I would like to raise a suggestion. Is it possible for you to or Parliament to have a designated filling station for Members of Parliament – [HON. SIKHALA: Ah, why?] – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Let him finish – [HON.
SIKHALA: Why, we must suffer like all citizens.] – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order! Hon. Sikhala and Hon. Chibaya, I must rule. Do not take my position, I need to rule.- [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order!
HON. SACCO: I am raising this issue Hon. Speaker Sir because not all of us live in Harare like Sikhala, Hon. Sikhala. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – We come from rural constituencies - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, moda kutora nyanga dzangu? Order! Hon. Member, you address another Hon. Member correctly. He is Hon. Sikhala.
HON. SACCO: I withdraw that Mr. Speaker Sir. My point is that the bulk of Members of Parliament here come from rural constituencies and we are failing to get fuel to attend Parliament. Our role is to represent the people. Our role also is of oversight and we travel long distances weekly. So it possible to have a designated filling station for Hon. Members of Parliament because this is impacting negatively on our role as Members of Parliament.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Hon. Member, when the Chair says order you comply. Secondly, when an Hon. Member is raising an issue, allow for the Chair to make a ruling. Do not go ahead of the Chair. Hon. Sacco, your point is valid but we have to contextualise that in the national interest. We need to contextualise the problem because while it is true that we need fuel to be mobile but we also represent constituencies where the electorate whom we must meet must also be mobile, particularly where you have to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Moda kuti ndikutaurirei kuti ndichiri panyanga until – muChishona zvinonzi dzamara madhongi amera nyanga. I was saying it is important that when we advance our welfare it should be contextualised to the welfare of the electorate as well. So this issue must be viewed as a national problem where, as Members of Parliament, we can press it upon the Hon. Minister responsible to ensure that there are sufficient supplies of fuel, not only for the Members of Parliament but also for the nation as such. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATAMBISI: Mr. Speaker, I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day Number 13 has been
disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE,
HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON THE STATUS
OF BORDER POSTS IN ZIMBABWE
HON. MAYIHLOME: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on the status of border posts in Zimbabwe.
HON. NGULUVHE: I second – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaaah Biti
aita sei?.] –
HON. MAYIHLOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am being insulted by
Hon. Biti that I am a fascist and I request Hon. Biti – [HON.
MEMBERS: Aaaah Biti aita sei?.] – Yes, he said so.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, can he withdraw please – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. We have always said, whenever there is contestation of what has been said, we refer to the Hansard. Hon. Mayihlome, please proceed – [AN. HON. MEMBER:
Can you sing Hon. Mayihlome.] –
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Akulanto elizangenza yona, hapana, forget it.
1.0 INTRODUCTION.
There was a general outcry regarding smuggling of goods and precious minerals, human trafficking – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Members, you need to
listen to this report so that you are engaged and be able to respond accordingly thereafter. Can the Hon. Member be heard in silence?
HON. MAYIHLOMEE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. There was a general outcry regarding the smuggling of goods and precious minerals, human trafficking, delays in processing of travelling documents, rampant corruption and illegal exit and entry into the country at various border posts. This has resulted in Government losing taxes and duties accordingly, hence impacting negatively to economic development. Various stakeholders including civil societies and the media testified that there was need for Government to act immediately and address these trepidations. Cognisant of the fundamental importance of water tight border post to the country’s development agenda, the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services resolved to conduct an inquiry on the status of border posts in Zimbabwe.
2.0 OBJECTIVES.
In its inquiry, the Committee was guided by the following objectives;
- To familiarise members with the operations of the Immigration
Department and the Zimbabwe Republic Police; ii. To appreciate the challenges being faced by the Immigration
Department and Zimbabwe Republic Police; iii. To assess strategies being implemented by the security sector in curbing smuggling and human tracking; and iv. To offer policy recommendations for improvements.
3.0 METHODOLOGY.
The Committee employed the following methods in gathering the information;
- The Committee conducted oral evidence session, with the
Permanent Secretary for Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage Mr M.
Matshiya accompanied by Deputy Commissioner General Mr L. Ncube and Chief Director of Immigration, Ms R. Gono. The objectives of the meeting were to get an explanation of the challenges being faced by the Department of Immigration and the Zimbabwe Republic Police in executing their duties at ports of entry or exit and outlining strategies and measures being implemented to overcome these challenges.
- The Committee also conducted familiarisation tour of
Beitbridge and Forbes Border Posts, to appreciate how the Immigration
Department and the Zimbabwe Republic Police in conjunction with Zimbabwe Revenue Authority handle the movement of goods and persons at border posts.
- COMMITTEE FINDINGS.
- Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage:
4.1.1 In his presentation, the Permanent Secretary, Mr. M. Matshiya submitted that the operations of the Immigration Department includes but are not limited to;
- Administering the Immigration Act;
- Facilitating Entry and Exit of travellers ; iii. Handling permit applications; and Compliance and Enforcement activities including handling of repatriations, deportations, arrests and refusal of entry.
It was submitted that at major busy border posts like Beitbridge and Forbes, the department handles an average of 12 000 travellers a day and up to 28 000 a day during peak periods such as festive season.
4.2 With reference to the Zimbabwe Republic Police, the Secretary made reference to section 219 of the Constitution which provides for the responsibility of Police Service as follows:
- Detecting, investigating and preventing crime.
- Preventing the internal security of Zimbabwe.
- In addition, it was submitted to the Committee that Zimbabwe Republic Police discharges its mandate in conjunction and co-operation with other stakeholders in a multi-sectoral approach. By its nature, border management relates to a myriad of systems in place to control the movement of goods and people across national boundaries.
- It was further submitted to the Committee that border control duties are not the preserve of the Zimbabwe Republic Police alone, but the organisation does it in partnership with the Department of Immigration which regulates the movement of people and Zimbabwe
Revenue Authority responsible for management of goods and services.
- In discharging their duties, the Committee was informed that border control officials ensure that people with valid and proper or acceptable travel documents and goods are granted leave to enter into or depart from the country upon satisfaction of certain conditions. In the same vein, it was established that both the Zimbabwe Republic Police and the Department of Immigration has not fared well in the discharge of its mandate due to a myriad of challenges.
- The Secretary for Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage submitted that effective and efficient border control had been negatively affected by the porosity, lack of roads and rugged nature of the border line that does not have a man-made demarcation or barrier. This made it easier for smugglers to export or import their contrabands trough unofficial crossing points along the border line.
- Further, the terrain and lengthy nature of the border line makes it difficult for the border control agency to conduct patrols like foot, motorised and horse since some areas are infested with land mines. The total distances on the stretch of the border line demonstrate the extent of the problem as illustrated in the table.
Border | Stretch of the border line (km) |
Zimbabwe- South Africa | 225 |
Zimbabwe- Mozambique | 1231 |
Zimbabwe- Zambia | 797 |
Zimbabwe- Botswana | 813 |
- Furthermore, it was submitted that border control agencies did not have motor vehicles to use when conducting patrols. Although there were various bases established at well-known crossing points, there was a serious challenge with regards to the provision of travelling and subsistence allowances, rations, uniform and tents to cater for welfare of officers on deployment.
- In the same vein, deployments usually took an average of 30 days. This had negatively impacted on morale, efficiency and effectiveness of officers, hence rendering them susceptible to corruption.
- It was highlighted to the Committee that human trafficking by its nature is subtle and not easily identifiable at the ports of entry.
- Section 3 of Trafficking in Persons Act 4 of 2014 defines human trafficking as involving any person who trafficks any individual by transporting him or her into, outside and within Zimbabwe involuntarily by way of force, violence, threats, subdue by use of drugs, fraud, inducements or voluntarily for an unlawful purpose.
- Other challenges which were submitted related to fact that all border posts were not installed with closed circuit television to detect offences of bribes, corruption and smuggling of goods. Border control officials also lacked skills, decent accommodation, office space and they usually work for long hours daily.
5.0 Touring of Beitbridge and Forbes Border Post
The Committee made the following findings during the tour of the border posts:
5.1 Human trafficking and smuggling
5.1.1 The Committee was informed that Section 3 of Trafficking in Persons Act of 2014 define human trafficking as the transportation of individual into or outside and inside a country voluntarily by way of force, violence, threats, fraud, subdue by use of drugs for an unlawful purpose. The above definition makes it difficult to easily identify cases of human trafficking.
5.1.2 Human smuggling involves the use of fraudulent documents and parties agree on a facilitation fee which is in violation of one or more countries laws. The Department of Immigration had on record cases of Zimbabweans and other nationalities who are arrested whilst being smuggled into neighbouring countries such as Mozambique and
South Africa through undesignated crossing points, particularly minors.
5.1.3 The Committee noted that the Department has on record a total of 92 minors whom they had referred to the department of Social Welfare after being intercepted at Beitbridge Border Post in 2019. In addition, a total of 82 deportations had been effected as from January to June. Thus, on average about 15 people being trafficked per month.
5.2.0 Illegal crossing
5.2.1 In relation to illegal entry and exit, the Committee established that stretches for up to 255km, border policing is being done in areas covering less than 50kms and the remaining area becomes easily accessible for illegal crossing. Statistics submitted to the Committee showed that a total of 16 187 have been arrested for illegal crossing from January to June 2019. This is a significant number and it can be quantified that on average 1 350 people are being arrested on monthly basis.
5.2.2 At Beitbridge Border Post, the Committee appreciates the
Government’s efforts for the project underway in upgrading the border as this will go a long way in alleviating challenges emanating from lack of supportive infrastructure.
5.3.0 Scanners
5.3.1 The Committee noted that the Zimbabwe Republic Police was currently relying on employing physical searching methods at all the border posts. However, it was indicated to the Committee that this kind of searches is not efficient enough to detect smuggled items.
5.3.2 In connection with the above, the police did not have hand luggage scanners to detect smuggling of goods concealed in hand luggage or in any part of the body. In this regard, goods such as drugs and gold have a tendency of being smuggled in that fashion.
5.3.3 It was also established that the department did not have surveillance equipment such as drones and helicopters for aerial surveillance to prevent and detect smuggling cases. The Committee further established that at Beitbridge and Forbes Border Posts, the scanners were not functional.
5.4.0 Patrol vehicles
5.4.1 The Committee learnt that the Department did not have vehicles for border patrol operations and currently they are relying on private hire to chase criminals. At Beitbridge Border Post, the Committee was informed that currently nine motorbikes were being used to patrol the whole stretch for anti-smuggling along the Limpopo River from Chikwarakwara on the east up to Shashe River. The stretch from Beitbridge to Sango Border is nearly 200km and Beitbridge to Tuli is around185km. The same challenge was also reported at Forbes Border Post where it was reported that the stretch from Forbes to Nyamapanda Border post is nearly 530km.
5.5 Border control
5.5.1 The Committee was also informed that police had forward bases situated at strategic points which are 10km apart along the
Limpopo River in case of Beitbridge and along Binya Road in case of Forbes Border Post. The aim is to thwart rampant smuggling and illegal crossing activities some of which involve stolen vehicles. Supervision for those on deployment was not being done since the motor cycles are old and constantly off the road.
5.5.2 The Committee was also informed at Beitbridge Border Post that they deal with high volumes of accused persons on daily basis but had no vehicle to ferry them to the mother station. At Forbes Border Post it was submitted that, the border deals with large numbers during festive season from and to Mozambique.
5.6 Accommodation
5.6.1 It was submitted to the Committee that Immigration officers stayed in outside camps since the border does not have facilities for their accommodation. Rentals were reported to be as high as R800-1000 per room in Beitbridge. The situation was now compelling staff to look for accommodation in nearby areas outside the border in search for cheap rentals. The same challenge affected officers at Forbes Border Post who have to seek cheaper accommodation in Mutare.
5.6.2 This scenario is tantamount to driving officers at border posts into corruption. A request was made for Government to consider construction of official accommodation since they are currently vulnerable to corruption and temptation.
5.7 Marking of the border
5.7.1 It was reported to the Committee that along all border lines there was no demarcation between traditional and administrative boundaries. At Forbes Border Post, the Committee was informed that Chief Musikavanhu`s boundaries stretches in to Mozambique. This means most communities have relatives residing on either side of the border. It was further propounded that farm labourers cross the border every day to work at Tanganda Estates and a solution was needed to assist the company to remain functional.
5.7.2 Whereas the Immigration Department is mandated to focus more on facilitating cross border movement at designated ports. At Forbes Border Post, the Committee was told that most schools dotted along the border enroll pupils from Mozambique and they cross the border twice a day. The problem is compounded by the fact that the international boundaries were marked separating families as well as fields as the case at Forbes Border Post, Mozambicans have fields in
Zimbabwe.
5.7.3 Further, it was presented to the Committee that Beacon Hill
Primary School in Chipinge has 33 pupils from Mozambique and South Down has 527 in the Garaba area. Additionally, the existence of intermarriages compels locals to cross border line.
5.8 Communication
5.8.1 The Committee whilst touring Beitbridge Border Post was told that there is no method of communication between both sides of borders. It was submitted to the Committee that since there were no electronic spikes to control traffic movement sometimes vehicles hit the boom on Zimbabwean side and cross South African. At Forbes Border Post, the Committee was informed about the no man`s land which is in – between Zimbabwe and Mozambique. Police find it difficult to arrest culprits since smugglers usually run over to that place.
5.9 Foreign nationals
5.9.1 At Forbes Border Post Immigration Officials informed the Committee that the Tongogara Refugee Camp had 751 people at the time of the visit who were denied refugee status but were still in the country. This meant that they were violating the laws of the country and the matter needed redress by the Government. It was reported that some of the people at Tongogara Refugee Camp are now posing security threat since at any time they could commit a crime and run away
5.9.2 The Committee was also informed that implementation of the Rwandan Cessation Clause had become so prolonged and needed to be finalised as all efforts to repatriate the Rwandans to their country had been in vain since they are resisting to go back home. These people are conducting illegal activities such as business in the country.
5.10 Land mines
5.10.1 It was submitted to the Committee that many areas along the border lines were still infested with land mines which makes patrolling of the area difficult. The situation is further compounded by the total distances of respective borders which unambiguously demonstrate the extent of the problem, for instance the stretch between Zimbabwe and South Africa which is 225km. Thus, patrol on such areas can only be effective using drones.
5.11 Closed circuit television
5.11.1 The Committee was told that all border posts are not installed with CCTVs for detecting smuggled goods and preventing corruption by border control officials. Lack of CCTVs makes it difficult to detect offences of bribery which take place between importers or exporters and border control officials. A call was made for Government to speed up the installation of closed circuit televisions at all border posts.
5.11.2 The Committee also learnt that the Zimbabwe Republic Police in its quest to prevent and detect smuggling of goods does not have the expertise to monitor and interpret scan images. However, this leaves the organisation with no means to verify the contents of containerised consignments, hence a request was made for capacity building.
5.12 Commanded control
5.12.1 It was reported to the Committee that there is confusion of who is in charge of the border between the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority and Immigration Department since there is no Ports Authority.
An appeal was made for the establishment of Ports Authority.
5.13 Corruption
5.13.1 The Committee was informed that corruption involving Immigration Officials was rampant at border posts involving
Immigration officials. The statistics presented to the Committee shows that out of a total of 186 immigration officials implicated for corruption, 177 were convicted and only 9 were acquitted.
5.13.2 It was submitted to the Committee that the existing infrastructure at all border posts was outdated and inefficient. At Forbes Border Post, the infrastructure was very minimal resulting in traffic congestion compounded by the fact that there was no room for extension. It was reported at both border posts that there is limited office space as well as furniture.
5.14 Legislative shortcomings
5.14.1 The Immigration Act (Chapter 4.02) was not deterrent enough since the Act did not provide any provision which outlaws certain illegal activities and penalties for those illegal activities. It was clearly highlighted to the Committee that there is no provision at law to penalize those illegal activities, hence the need to expand the scope of legislation which enhances travellers and operators’ controls. For airlines, the Carriers Liability Act is a deterrent instrument and the same needs to be done for road operators. Lessons can be drawn from the South African jurisdiction where several penalties are levied on operators who violate the law.
5.15 Travelling and subsistence allowances
5.15.1 The Committee was told that travelling and subsistence allowances was last paid in 2008 and the total outstanding arrears exceeds US$300 000.00. Members were dividing their meagre salaries between themselves and their families in order to sustain themselves whilst on deployments at large distances far away from their ordinary places of residence.
5.15.2 The Committee was further informed that members on deployment were not well equipped with full patrol kits such as tents and rations. It was also confirmed that moral was indeed low even as officers continue to put their maximum efforts to prevent illegal crossing.
6.0 Current strategies being implemented to address the challenges
6.1 Awareness campaign
6.1.1 The Committee was informed that the department is conducting regular awareness campaigns through the radio, television and road shows to sensitise members of the public about implications associated with human trafficking and smuggling.
6.2 Joint patrols
6.2.1 The Committee was told that the security agencies at border areas were conducting joint patrols along the border lines to curb illegal crossing and other crimes. In addition, Zimbabwe Republic Police had established more bases at illegal crossing points along the border line. For example at the border between Zimbabwe and South Africa there were 13 bases and at the border between Zimbabwe and Mozambique there were 32 bases.
6.2.2 Further to the above, it was also reported to the Committee that respective provincial commanders of the security forces were conducting bilateral meetings with neighbouring countries such as South Africa, Mozambique, Botswana and Zambia to discuss border control related challenges peculiar to their respective areas of operations. These meetings had resulted in joint operations to curb the vices related to management of goods across borders.
6.2.3 It was submitted to the Committee that the Zimbabwe Republic Police was conducting anti-smuggling operations in conjunction with the Zimbabwe Defence Forces at official and unofficial entry and exit points as well as inland. Moreover, the organisation was lobbying Government to provide adequate budgetary support for purchasing rations, uniforms and payment of travelling and subsistence allowances to members performing border patrols duties.
6.3 Installation of Closed Circuit Televisions
6.3.1 With regards to corruption, the Committee was informed that installation of CCTV cameras at most border stations such as
Beitbridge and Robert Mugabe International Airport was now complete. CCTV had also been installed at headquarters with the view to roll out this facility to all border stations as a supervisory and monitoring facility. There were also individual date stamps for tracing malpractices. In addition, use of tags for all staff members was meant to enable easy identification by clients especially in case of poor performance.
7.0 Committee Observations
After considerations of submissions from the Permanent Secretary and tour of the border posts, the Committee made the following observations;
- That travelling and subsistence allowances had last been paid in 2008 and the total outstanding arrears exceeds US$300 000.00 and members were dividing their meagre salaries with their families in order to sustain themselves;
- That there was no proper awareness campaigns being conducted by the Immigration Department to educate the public on human trafficking and smuggling;
- That the Zimbabwe Republic Police was seriously incapacitated to monitor smuggling of goods as they do not have modern IT equipment;
- That Zimbabwe Republic Police officers were prone to corruption, since they were being deployed without their subsistence allowances;
- That there was poor command and control of the border posts;
- That delays in clearing land mines along the border lines was making it difficult for the Zimbabwe Republic Police to conduct patrols;
- That the Department of Immigration was short staffed, and officers were working overtime without being paid;
- That border control agencies had lost control as a result of increasing number of touts and foreigners who were harassing local traditional leaders around the border;
- That the Department of Immigration faces office space and accommodation challenges;
- That the Department of Immigration did not have patrol vehicles to monitor crossing points resulting in loss of revenue as food, drugs and vehicle were being smuggled across the Limpopo River.
- That at Forbes Border Post, there were CCTVs and at
Beitbridge the gadgets were not working;
- That there were no spikes to control vehicle traffic and radio for communication; and
- That there was poor infrastructure and road networks along the border areas.
8.0 Recommendations.
Cognisant of the above observations, the Committee recommends as follows;
- That the Police Service Commission should make sure that deployees are paid travelling and subsistence allowances in time to curb the ego for corrupt activities and the outstanding arrears be settled by December 2020.
- That the Department of Immigration should conduct regular proper awareness campaigns to educate the public about the effects of human trafficking and smuggling.
- That beginning year 2020, Zimbabwe Republic Police should be well equipped with patrol kits including vehicles, scanners, drones, tents and other necessities. Treasury should avail funding for the purchase of a comprehensive patrol kit in the 2020 Budget.
- That by December 2020, Government should establish a
Ports Authority for easy management of border posts.
- That the Department of Immigration urgently installs CCTVs at all border posts to detect and prevent smuggling of goods and human trafficking by December 2021.
- That the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs expedite clearance of land mines along the border to ensure effective patrols. In the 2020 Budget, Treasury should avail budgetary support for this programme.
- There is need to expand the scope of the Immigration Act (Chapter 4:02) to provide a provision which outlaws certain illegal activities and impose penalties for those illegal activities.
- That the Department of Immigration should urgently regularize many unregulated crossing points for Government to realise increased revenue by December 2021.
- That in the 2020 Budget, Treasury should avail adequate budgetary support to the Department of Immigration for infrastructure development such as accommodation and office facilities.
- That the Department of Immigration, by June 2020 should introduce the use of electronic spikes and immediate communication gadgets to facilitate hot pursuit of criminal activities.
9.0 Conclusion
Informed by these pertinent observations, the Committee hopes the relevant authorities will seriously consider the recommendations made above in order to improve the situation prevailing at the border posts at the time of enquiry.
HON. MUDARIKWA: On a point of order! Mr. Speaker Sir, the
report by the Hon. Chairperson is not in our pigeon holes. So for us to debate, we need copies of that report - it is not even on our tablets.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am reliably informed that the
copies of the report are now in the pigeon holes.
HON. NGULUVHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will just make some few comments on the report which has been tabled by our Chairperson.
My first comment would be on the command and signal. When you deploy troops or officers on the ground, you must always have
Standard Operating Procedure, (SOP’s) which will actually tell those on the ground the procedure of operations. As the Hon. Chairperson has reported, the command and control of the people at the borders was nonexistent, therefore there is need that we establish a port authority urgently, otherwise there is confusion as to who is in charge of the border post. If anything is to happen, nobody is actually in charge of the border post, so I concur with the Hon. Chairperson that there is need that we establish a port authority.
On the issue of CCTVs, definitely, in a security area there is a requirement for us to install CCTVs, especially if we are to curb corruption. Our observation was that although they have installed CCTVs, there was one or two which were not working and it seems like they are deliberately not fixing them to enable them to continue on their corrupt practices.
CCTVs assist and we observed that there was a problem of access control. Anybody can easily access that border post and from a security point of view, it is very dangerous. It disturbs people who will be travelling freely, especially from Harare going to South Africa. There are those youngsters who are in Beitbridge thinking that they will get job and they will be busy stealing money from women who will be going down to make a living. So there is a need that we make sure that there is access control at the border post.
However, let me also contribute to the Government for carrying out the current building of the new border post. It has benefited the people of my constituency as mostly the people who were employed there are locals and we insisted that we need locals to work in Beitbridge border post not to have someone coming outside our border post.
On the observations which were reported by our Chairman on the issue of travel and subsistence allowances, it is a pity that you deploy officers and last pay them travel and subsistence allowance in 2008. Those officers are down in places like Chikwarara where there are no means to feed themselves and yet they are supposed to fight corruption. Someone comes smuggling goods worth one million Rands and you expect that person to stop those people from smuggling – it is not possible, they offer $100 000 to just let the goods to go.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I personally observed these Fortuna cars, three or four of them being smuggled along Limpopo River and the people will be armed. I think we are losing a lot of revenue because we are failing to control the borders. How do you expect people to stop officers if you do not pay them travel and subsistence?
The other observation which I think we should do is that the borders were created by the colonizers and basically if you go across Limpopo or Victoria Falls border post, you will get the same people - whether it is in Mutare or Beitbridge, you will get vendors across there, you will get Vendas and Samanyika’s across there, these people are one. How do you expect one to travel from Chikwalakwala which is 130 kilometres? It is very expensive. There are no buses, yet one can easily cross the river and go and see his or her relatives across. So I recommend that the Government should take note and open more crossing points to make life easy for our people. Mr. Speaker Sir, I am saying this because a long time ago, we used to cross - it has been the policy that you report to your traditional leader, police are informed and we had some border posts along other places, there is need for them to
be allowed to go across. Mr. Speaker, I think it is high time that the Government can actually curb such smuggling.
Let me come back to Beitbridge, Forbes and Chirundu. I appeal to this House that currently we are told of Coronavirus, we have no equipment on these border posts to screen our visitors. Beitbridge Border Post is the backbone of this country, monies are coming through that border. Why can we not allow them to retain a certain percentage so that we can actually equip that border post with all what is required to fight this Coronavirus and also to make sure that CCTVs are installed.
From a security point of view, we have observed that there are no physical barriers to stop people who want to use force to cross the border; both sides have no physical barriers. I think it is high time that the relevant Ministries should establish those barriers. Like what my Chairperson said, there is need for us to establish communication between Forbes and Beitbridge border posts to enable them to communicate easily.
During the festive season, the situation is bad, there are quite a number of trucks crossing there and they block the whole entrance. I think it is high time that as Government we should think of establishing another bridge for trucks only to allow people to move freely. Mr.
Speaker, Sir, those are my few comments. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to applaud the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Security and his seconder for a good report. I will just be very brief. The issue of Limpopo Bridge….
HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Mr.
Speaker Sir, my point of order is that when we are debating a motion, I think members of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Security should be given a chance to debate first. Hon. Nduna is not a member of the Committee, we are in the Committee; we are supposed to be debating first.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Okay, I have already
recognised him so we give him the floor to finish. Go ahead Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you for
protecting me. I just want to touch on the Beitbridge Border Post which is a conduit for our economic development and emancipation towards Vision 2030. Why do I say so, that border post is charged with bringing to our GDP more than $US3.5 billion per annum. Mr. Speaker Sir, having said that let me touch on the Limpopo River Bridge. The construction of that bridge was completed in 1995 and private-public partnership took root from 1998. Mr. Speaker Sir, 2020, it is 20 years after that build, operate and transfer took root. It is a very good classical example of an African Concession, the first of its kind, which is quite successful. Other countries in the continent can actually take a cue but we as Zimbabweans have taken charge in 2020 or before of a successful concession which borders on the private-public partnership. That bridge now belongs to our Government. It is important because not less than US$1.6 million is coming from that bridge monthly.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the reason I talk about this is for us to adhere to the principles and ethos of what is requested by this Committee in terms of capacitating that border through computerisation, lighting and through e-governance. This will enable us to generate a lot of revenue and plug revenue leakages and make sure that there is efficiency at the border post. Why should we have efficiency in particular at the Beitbridge Border Post, it is because we have about 25 000 private vehicles crossing that border post each month. We also have about 15 000 haulage trucks crossing that border each month; 2 100 buses crossing that border each moth and also 20 000 people crossing that border each month. It is very important to separate the vehicular and human traffic in order that we continue to have a conduit which is the BeitbridgeHarare route, that it continues to give us the income that we badly require as an economy and as a country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, if we delay one 30 tonne haulage truck of sugar at the border post, by the time it reaches inland the two kg would have gone up by four cents. Mr. Speaker Sir, if we delay a 30 000 liters container of fuel at the border post - by the time that fuel lands inland, it would have gone up by two cents per liter. It is only prudent and good for us to have some efficiency at the border post. The best way is to create a conduit that separates vehicular and human traffic.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of documentation of our people at the border post is very key. The Chairperson spoke about people at Tongogara Refugee Camp, who are now refusing repatriation. What we did is we took charge of these people but we did not take charge of their population and conjugal rights. It is very important that we document these people and whoever they sire, we document them not as our own but as foreigners because they would have sired those people.
It is also prudent and key that we document them according to our laws that speak to, 42 days after birth of any child so that we can continue to have efficiency in terms of cross border crossings Mr.
Speaker, by both our refugees and people that adhere to the values of sections 35 and 38 of our Constitution that speak to and about the issue of documenting our citizens who have been in this country for more than 10 years as our citizens Mr. Speaker. Yes, we have internally displaced persons. They do not only stay at the Tongogara Refugee Camp after they are born. These are the same people we have challenges with in my constituency, Chegutu West Constituency. I stand here and ask Mr. Speaker because of this report, that we continue to talk about a moratorium to document all our citizens lest we have internally displaced people because they have no documentation.
Lastly Mr. Speaker, between 1998 and to date, what has gone through the Limpopo Beitbridge River Bridge is more than 10 million vehicles. Why do I want to talk about vehicles? As it relates to the economy of the country Mr. Speaker, we have what is called Road Access Fee that talks about US$20 per vehicle that comes into this country. So 10 million vehicles and US$20, we will easily talk of
US$200 million from inception to date that we could have gotten as a country. We can still get that money but my point exactly is, we are the lowest in the SADC region in terms of charges of road access fee on infrastructure such as the one at the Beitbridge Limpopo River Bridge.
It is my clarion call and fervent view and hope that we increase that US$20 access on our bridge that we are tolling for access so that we do not only have money accruing to our economy but also be in sync with the regional trends Mr. Speaker. In the same vein, I request that we stop road access fee for returning residents. Road access fee should be charged only to foreigners and for them as they go back into their own country. I say this because as you go into Botswana on the Plumtree Border Post, you pay a fortune just to access their road in Francis Town and you also pay insurance for accessing their roads.
So this report Mr. Speaker, was pregnant with issues and not tissues that we can use in order to enhance our economy, security and also stop the proliferation of terrorism in our midst. As I end, I want to say our country together with the countries around this continent; they are facing a daunting task of managing their borders in ways that secure their territorial sovereignty and integrity. It ensures that these border posts are bridges rather than barriers that he alludes to and speaks about, for crossing border cooperation and regional integration, prevents illegal entries and exiting of people and goods whilst allowing easy movement of goods and people, allows relatives to visit their kin in the case of Zimbabwe and South Africa whilst keeping away criminals such as the drug-traffickers and human traffickers, terrorists and such like. They facilitate tourism to ease crossing whilst keeping out terrorists Mr.
Speaker Sir.
I thank you for giving me this opportunity to completely ventilate issues that border about borders and border around borders. The people of Chegutu West Constituency send their love and I want to thank you for allowing me to talk about their issues on this report.
HON. S. BANDA: I want to thank the Committee for the good report that touches on the welfare of Zimbabweans. Hon. Speaker, it will not be possible for us to discuss the issues of borders without also discussing the issue of passports. If we had sufficient passports for most of the application, it means we will have limited or highly reduced instances of people illegally crossing the borders. I urge the report to also take into consideration the issue of passports.
If you go to the Passport Office, there are some Members of Parliament who go there for training, day-in day-out they see queues of more than 200 people waiting early in the morning to get passports and most of them do not get passports because when you get to the Passport Office they process a maximum number of 70 people. My plea Hon. Speaker, is that we should do something about passports. We cannot discuss the issue of passports without speaking of the issue of foreign currency.
Once we discuss the issue of foreign currency, it means we have got a budget which may not address how passports are going to be obtained because the budget is mainly in RTGs whereas for passports to be made available you need foreign currency. We still appeal that we should have a dollar economy. Without a dollar economy we will not be able to process the passports because we will not find money to go and get material that is required to import the material that is used to manufacture the passports.
Lastly Mr. Speaker, if governance issues were addressed then I think everything would be okay. As long as there is one party which thinks it can continue to govern this country then there will always be a problem Hon. Speaker. We really need to sit down as Zimbabweans. If you come to my constituency Mt. Pleasant, you find that most people are selling their houses and leaving this country and that is not good Hon. Speaker. We really need to sit down and dialogue as Zimbabweans. That is why I am saying we need more passports so that people can go out but we need those people who are out of Zimbabwe to come back once we have dialogue in this country. I thank you.
HON. MUDARIKWA: I want to thank the Hon. Chair for the report but Mr. Speaker, Beitbridge Border Post was opened in 1929 and amongst our border posts, and it is the only border post which is declared a protected area, it is paramount that the Committee recommends to the Ministry that all other border posts must be declared protected areas for the purposes of management. One important aspect which has been raised by the committee which I want to support is the moral of some of the workers at Beitbridge which is very low because of poor working conditions. It is important that time and again there is need to review salaries of workers in strategic areas. The other point I need to raise Mr. Speaker Sir, is that in other countries, when you are living – this must be within the SADC Protocol – 30km from the border post, you do not need a passport to cross to go to South Africa or Zambia. The Committee has recommended that all the people living close to the border post can move without passports. Students wanting to travel to Zimbabwe or South Africa can also do so in the morning when they are going to school without requiring a passport.
The South African Border Post – there is need to introduce one stop border post like what has been done in Zambia so that movement of traffic is improved. In other instances, this maybe falls under a different Committee but then the computer system at ZIMRA is always down resulting in huge queues at the border post. That obviously affects the revenue of the country. There is need to improve the efficiency. The PTA now incorporates many other countries in Africa. So there is need now to inform ZIMRA officers that there are changes in terms of searching and everything because most of the goods required now go through the border without paying any duty because they are covered by the free trade area. I want to thank the Committee for the report and also thank the Chairperson.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me repeat what I raised as a point of order. We are all debating in vacuum because I checked in the pigeon hole, we do not have copies of the report compiled by the Committee. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of
privilege?
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. It is just a reminder to the esteemed Members of Parliament for this august
House, that training has just resumed. We are training tomorrow again and please those who were given tracksuits, can you come and train. You can see those who are training are debating much better in Parliament. May I say well done to those who came for training this week, Hon. Majaya, Hon. Banda and many others. It has been a good start to the season and I hope to see you all tomorrow and on Monday.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you are
out of order.
*HON. J. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me
this opportunity. I would like to thank the Chairperson for the Committee of Home Affairs and Security Services for coming up with such a detailed report which is very relevant and touching. Most of our relatives who work at border areas are the ones who face these challenges. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Chairperson said the border has no proper demarcation. We hear from the report of the Chairperson that some people can have two identities, one for Zimbabwe and another for Mozambique because they can build homesteads even across the borders, be it in Botswana or Zimbabwe. There are no proper demarcations to show that this is one country and that one is another country. That also disturbs us as a country. We may not be able to know our real population because we might end up counting citizens of another country. The other country like Mozambique may also not be able to account for its citizens thinking that they are Zimbabweans.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is the issue that was alluded to in this report which pertains to vehicles that are supposed to be used for border patrols. It is very difficult when you are assigned to do a duty, like sew a garment whilst you are not given the thread or the needles. Let us send children to perform duties with enough equipment. When they come across thieves or robbers who will be better equipped with good vehicles, they will not be able to chase or match them. The vehicles that are used by border patrol officers sometimes are small cars that cannot be used in high terrains and sometimes those vehicles break down. I encourage the Government to equip these borders in terms of suitable vehicles.
What touched me is the accommodation for these officers. Some of the people who are deployed are police officers or army officers. Some of them may be married women, our wives or our sisters. When your wife leaves, you will not be settled especially when you hear that the accommodation where they are going is deplorable. It is also disturbing when you hear that your spouse shares accommodation with the opposite sex. Mr. Speaker Sir, from the report we got here, we hear that sometimes women and men tend to share the same tent when they are deployed. That should be addressed so that the spouses settle down instead of worrying because of that set up.
Some of the border workers sometimes are redeployed to other borders, for instance, Mozambique or Beitbridge and are asked to pay for own accommodation. That to me encourages corruption, prostitution or indiscipline. When you fail to raise money for accommodation, you will end up doing that because sometimes you tend to look for money and where you can get is from the closest source. My request is, border employees should be given proper accommodation.
I would like now to refer to security cameras. We will not be safe as a country if there are no cameras at border areas. Sometimes human eyes miss out things that can be picked by cameras. In order for us to have guaranteed security, we need to have such equipment.
I would also like to talk about incentives such as pocket money for the employees. Those people work under very tempting conditions and the temptations are to do with money considering that there is high poverty and lack of money in this country. It tempts someone to do corrupt activities, especially when people earn little money. When there are no incentives, it forces someone to engage in corruption. We should look for ways of motivating our people so that they may work without complaints. They need decent accommodation, food and all other facilities. If only all the points that were raised here will be taken seriously so that we look for a solution so that in this country we reduce corruption, border jumping and robbery. People working in border areas should work happily without complaints. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the rest of the Orders on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order Number 20 has been disposed of.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT
AND TOURISM ON WETLAND MANAGEMENT
HON. CHINANZVAVANA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I
move the motion standing in my name:
That this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environment and Tourism on Wetland Management.
HON. SAIZI: I second.
HON. CHINANZVAVANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
move to present Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environment and
Tourism on Wetland Management
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The Portfolio Committee on Environment and Tourism conducted an inquiry on wetlands management in February 2019. The Committee sought to appreciate the state of wetland destruction in Harare after Harare Wetlands Trust organised a tour of selected sites where wetlands were being utilised unsustainably.
2.0 OBJECTIVES OF THE ENQUIRY
The broad objective of the enquiry was to enable the Committee to observe some of the ongoing wetlands degradation in Harare’s suburbs and how it affects the state of wetland ecosystem in the country. In more specific terms, the Committee sought to;-
- Appreciate the legal framework governing wetlands management in Harare;
- Understand the challenges faced by institutions that have the primary responsibility for the protection of wetlands; and
- Assess the level of implementation of the legislation on wetland management.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
To get an in-depth appreciation of the state of wetlands, the
Committee toured some of Harare’s wetland areas in Borrowdale,
Monavale, Sentosa, and Glen Lorne in February 2019. On 20th March 2019, the Committee attended a Legislative Review Meeting on
Issuance of Development Permits and Environmental Impact Assessments (EIA) Certificates held at Cresta Oasis Hotel in order to have an appreciation of the legal framework governing wetland issues.
The Committee was apprised of the implications of extensive and endemic developments that were taking place on Harare’s wetlands. Oral evidence that was received from the Minister of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry assisted the Committee to understand the policy and technical aspects involving wetland management. Finally, the Committee requested written submissions from Harare City Council on challenges relating to wetlands management.
4.0 COMMITTEE’S FINDINGS
4.1 Monavale Vlei (Ramsar Site – Wetland of International
Importance).
The Monavale Vlei, is an important wetland area within the city along Fenella Drive. It is managed by the Conservation Society of
Monavale (COSMO.) The Committee was informed by COSMO that the Government had plans to build 1200 cluster houses in the Monavale wetland area.
4. 2 University of Zimbabwe Wetlands
The Committee was informed by Harare Wetlands Trust that the former UZ Vice Chancellor had intensions to construct a car wash and service station next to a stream called Marimba River as a personal venture. Bird Life Zimbabwe and Harare Wetlands Trust challenged the decision and the construction of the service station was stopped. EMA objected to the development but the City Council did not and registered the development. Concerns were raised as to the model of restoration to be adopted for the wetland and who would meet the cost of restoring that very important wetland site. The Committee was also informed by Harare Wetlands Trust that there were earlier plans to build offices, clinics, and a shopping mall along Upper East Road a proposal that was objected by the University students and staff leading the developer to withdraw.
4.3 Borrowdale Wetlands (Ramsar Site)
The Committee learnt that Borrowdale wetlands form part of Mt Pleasant wetlands and these wetland sites depicted the practical legal issues on wetlands. It was alleged by Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights during the tour that the Ministry of Environment had initiated some written formalities at some point to remove Borrowdale wetlands as a wetland area. An EIA was issued to develop the Borrowdale wetlands in November 2017 and the City Council issued a development permit on the basis of the EIA that was issued. Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights opined that the EIA certificate on Borrowdale wetlands must be revoked and that EMA consistently assess, monitor the developments on the site and ensure that the environmental protection order is respected by the developer. It was submitted by Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights that an interim interdict was lodged pending the final verdict on the Borrowdale wetland wrangle.
4.4 Gunhill Vlei Wetland
The Committee observed that trenches had been dug up to drain the wetland area. The Committee witnessed wetland encroachment with several houses being built on the dry stream bed. On another stand, there was a fence and skywalk over a stream with plans to construct a building. On other planned properties, walls of neighbouring stands were built after diverting the course of the stream. Furthermore, agricultural activities were destroying the ecosystem services for example, SEDCO had set up a demonstration site for its seeds on the wetland.
4.5 New Life Ministries Church on a Wetland
The Committee witnessed a church being built in a wetland in Eastlea. The Committee was informed that the land belonged to an unnamed individual who had bought the land as a residential stand and later sold it to the church without following the due processes. The Committee was informed that the church is being constructed without any development permit from the City Council and that an EIA was authorised by the incumbent Minister of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry. The development that was taking place would set precedence on other developments that would take place elsewhere if it was not stopped forthwith.
4.6 Mazowe Catchment Council
There were stands being built across, downstream and upstream of the tributary called Muvhinzi that flows into Mazowe River. The Committee was informed that Harare City Council was responsible for issuing stands in the Shawasha Hills formerly Glenwin Farm.
4.7 Borrowdale Brooke Wetlands
The Committee witnessed sewage pumps that broke down in 2008 still discharging raw sewage into Brooke River completely polluting the wetland ecosystem services.
4.8 Gazetting of Harare Wetlands Map
During the presentations by Zimbabwe Layers for Human Rights, the issue of an urgent finalisation of the re-gazetting of Harare Wetlands Map was raised. The obtaining situation was that planning authorities have the power to determine whether or not an area is a wetland. Therefore, it was argued by Zimbabwe Layers for Human Rights that such state of affairs allowed evasion of protective laws through claims that an area targeted for development is not a wetland.
4.9 Conflict of interest in issuance of EIAs
The Committee learnt that the EIA Reports are prepared by consultants who are licenced by EMA. However, the fee for the consultants is paid by the project developer, leading to a conflict of interest for the consultants. Consultants who gain a reputation for issuing negative reports are unlikely to receive further engagements by developers. Accordingly, consultants lean towards producing reports which allow development on wetlands and often fail to consult adequately with stakeholders, even though the Environmental Management Act requires the Director-General to ensure that the consultations have taken place.
4.10 Payment fee for EIA Inspection
It was explained that EMA currently charges a total of $300 for anyone wishing to view an EIA report and does not allow any photographs or copies to be made of the document. The amount charged implied a direct violation of the environmental rights and access to information as guaranteed in the Constitution. The Committee viewed the inspection fee as a revenue generation exercise rather than a means by which concerned citizens may exercise their rights to protect the environment. The Committee observed that the right of inspection is crucial for those wishing to challenge improperly granted certificates but that right is subject to the payment of a prescribed fee.
4.11 National Environmental Council
Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights made submissions that decisions of the Minister and the Environmental Management Board should be informed by the advice from the National Environmental Council. However, the National Environmental Council has not been constituted and operationalised since the enactment of the Act. Accordingly, policy directives made by the Minister without such advice are ultra vires the Act.
4.12 Reports to be laid before Parliament
The Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights presented that
Ministerial directions should form part of annual reports which the Board is required to submit to the Minister and which the Minister is obliged to lay before Parliament. The Minister is also obliged to submit annual reports to Parliament. As a result, there has been no compliance with any aspect of this process before.
4.13 National Environmental Plan
The Environmental Management Act specifically stipulates that the preparation and implementation of Regional and Master Plans, in terms of the Regional, Town and Country Planning Act, must pay regard to the National Environmental Plan. It further espouses that no project shall be implemented otherwise than in compliance with a National Environmental Plan. However, National Environmental Plans have not yet been reviewed or developed as required by the Act. The law requires that National Environmental Plans be reviewed at least once every ten years from the date fixed by the Minister bringing the plan into effect. The Ministry of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry has not complied with the provision since 2012, ten years after the enactment of the Act.
4.14 Harmonisation laws relating to wetlands
The Committee observed that both the Environmental Management Act and the Water Act require different permits and permission for essentially the same activity while the Zimbabwe National Water Authority Act, duplicates the provisions of the other two acts. While the Environmental Management Act prevails over other legislation which conflicts with its provisions, it is unreasonable to require a developer or other party to seek multiple permits for the same activity.
4.15 Measures to Protect and Preserve Wetlands
During oral evidence session, the Minister of Environment,
Tourism and Hospitality Industry explained to the Committee the measures the Ministry had put in place to protect and preserve wetlands. These included the re-gazetting of wetlands map of Harare and Chitungwiza, identification and declaration of wetlands of international importance, the development of a National Wetlands Utilisation Guidelines for both rural and urban wetlands. In addition, EMA issued tickets and served orders to stop all construction activities in wetlands, the Ministry engaged and strengthened wetland management policy through coordination with other Ministries and departments and had established a national task force to deal with wetlands management and the setting up of one stop shop for approval of layout plans.
The Committee was informed that the Ministry had started the operationalisation of the Environmental Council to bring wetlands protection and preservation to the fore-front in order to unify efforts in introducing measures and coordinating activities by Ministries. The
Minister informed the Committee of its intention to develop the National Environmental Action Plan as well as carrying ecological assessment for stakeholders to know the status of the land they want to buy or develop.
4.16 Challenges to Ineffective Policy Measures
The Minister spelt out the challenges attributed to ineffective policy measures. She explained that the majority of wetland areas in
Harare were sold before the enactment of Environmental Management Act on the 17th of March 2003. Another challenge was that, under the new Constitution, the right of property ownership is protected more than environmental rights. The Minister pointed out that wetlands were intruded by land barons and the established illegal settlements are at law regarded as shelter and human rights issues then come into play.
4.17 Interventions by the Ministry
The Minister stressed the need to strengthen and improve coordination of the Ministry of Local Government, Public works and
National Housing, Local Authorities and the Ministry of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry. She saw it best to harmonise wetland laws under Zimbabwe National Water Authority, Local Government and
Environmental Management Agency. The Minister informed the Committee that Gazetted wetlands are to be declared state lands under the Ministry of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry.
She explained that wetlands would be converted into protected parks, botanic gardens or would be expropriated under private ownership by developing a funding mechanism.
4.18 City of Harare
City of Harare submitted that the only challenge regarding wetlands management is the lack of a wetland planning framework. There is lack of agreement on the criterion that determines areas that fit into the definition of wetlands within the local planning area of the City of Harare. It explained that to avoid personal discretion and build consensus on wetlands identification and protection, a scientific study has to be carried out. The Council opines that the study can help resolve conflict relating to town planning zoning and privately owned land on wetlands. The findings of the study would also be used to guide developments and approvals for developments on wetlands.
5.0 ANALYSIS OF THE KEY ISSUES
5.1 Problems with the Law
a) Ecologically Sustainable Development
The manner in which section 73(1) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe has been phrased is problematic. The section provides for the right-
(b) To have the environment protected for the benefit of present and future generations, through reasonable legislative and other measures that- ii) promote conservation; and iii) secure ecologically sustainable development and use of natural resources while promoting economic and social development.
No provision was made for the fact that some areas may not be amenable to sustainable development and that in these areas, economic development ought never to take place.
b)Alignment with the Constitution
Since there can be no sustainable development on wetlands, the Environmental Management Act should be amended. This would provide for an absolute prohibition on construction on wetlands, other than in the case of overriding public necessity when another constitutional right would be infringed if the development did not proceed. This would also advance the constitutional right to clean water and obligations to protect biodiversity.
- c) Wetlands Identification: Definition versus Mapped
Geographical Areas
A central problem with the Environmental Management Act lies in the means by which wetlands are identified. Following the Ramsar Convention, the Act attempts to identify wetlands through the following definition:
Wetland means any area of marsh, fen, peatland or water, whether natural or artificial, permanent or temporary, with water that is static or flowing, fresh, brackish or salt, and includes riparian land adjacent to the wetland.
The definition would be workable if it were accompanied by provisions setting out how and who determines whether a particular area falls within the definition, and thus constitutes a wetland. Hence, to avoid this problem, it is imperative that mapped geographical areas are held to be wetlands as a matter of law rather than fact or science. It will then be clear that the law pertaining to wetlands applies to these areas, regardless of any contrary opinion as to the topography of the area in question.
d) EIA Certificate before Development Permit
One means by which the legislation probably intended to partially address the problem is through section 97(5) of the Environmental
Management Act. The section requires that;
A licencing authority shall not issue a licence under any enactment with respect to a [development] project…unless the Director-General
has issued a [EIA] certificate…”
In terms of this section, a developer is required to obtain an EIA Certificate through EMA before approaching the licencing authority (the City of Harare) for a development permit.
EMA can then use the expertise of the Agency to determine whether or not the area is a wetland or not, before the developer proceeds further.
e) EIA Certificates by Default
The Act provides that the Director-General must issue or refuse an EIA Certificate within 60 days of receiving an EIA Report, failing which the project is to be deemed approved. Approval by default does nothing to protect the environment as required by section 73 of the Constitution.
The converse should apply, that the project is deemed refused.
f) Appeals to the Minister
The Act requires the Minister to make his or her determination with due expedition but no specific timeframe is set. Furthermore, in order to appeal the Minister’s decision to the Administrative Court, a record of the proceedings by which the determination was reached, or the reason for the decision, must be submitted to the Court. Yet the Act places no obligation upon the Minister to produce the record as a matter of course, presenting would be appellants with considerable difficulty.
g) Private Ownership of Wetlands
In some jurisdictions, where land use has been subjected to so many restrictive regulations as to make the land owner’s use of the property impossible, the courts have treated this as tantamount to unlawful expropriation and have set aside regulations on this basis. This argument has been raised on behalf of developers, who have claimed that a prohibition of building on wetlands prevents them from using the land for the purpose for which it was purchased. Department of Works officials have raised similar arguments holding that the Local
Authorities would be subjected to punitive legal action if they denied a building permit to a developer who had bought land at the time the land was designated residential by the Municipality. The officials state that once the land has been designated as residential, they are legally obliged to grant a development permit.
5.2 The Environmental Management Act
a) Power and Discretion of the Minister
It was submitted that at the heart of the problem is the amount of power and discretion vested in the Minister of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry and the insufficient constraints on possible improper executive action. A Minister more concerned with allowing developments, may utilise his or her discretion to the detriment of the environment. Thus, the extent of the power vested in the Minister in the
Environmental Management Act is a double edged sword.
b) The National Environmental Council
The delay of the operationalisation of the National Environmental Council has a severe and adverse effect on the governance of EMA and the protection of wetlands. All Ministerial decision-making ought to be informed by expert advice from the Council which is currently not operational.
c) Appeals of EIA Certificate
Where the grant of an EIA Certificate has been allowed or refused, the appeal lies with the Minister who alone determines the issue.
Although the Minister’s decision may itself be appealed, this presents practical difficulties for those seeking to protect wetlands from developers.
d) Hearings by and Jurisdiction of the Board
In practice, the Board only allows persons, whose actions are being investigated to make submissions, losing the benefit of submissions from often well informed stakeholders on the issue in question. The Environmental Management Act is also vague on the outcome of these hearings. It seems that the Board may only make “recommendations” and even this is only implicit. Furthermore, the Board has no punitive jurisdiction and thus appears to only have the power to recommend prosecutions of violators of environmental protections. The Act makes no provision for the imposition of penalties by the Board or any officer of the Agency. Theregulations provide that the Agency, through its authorised officers, may issue a “spot fine” (ticket) to any offender who contravenes the Regulations. This is a purely judicial function under the Constitution.
5.3 Domestication of Multilateral Environmental Agreements
Affecting Wetland Protection
Zimbabwe is a party to several international treaties and conventions which have a bearing on the protection of wetlands. Of prime importance is the Ramsar Convention on Wetlands. However, international treaties such as the Ramsar Convention and the Convention on Biological Diversity, though binding to the State, do not form part of the law of Zimbabwe, unless they have been incorporated into the law through an Act of Parliament. Even where these conventions do not form a binding component of the Zimbabwe’s municipal law, the constitutional rights given above must be interpreted and applied in conformity with these conventions and treaties.
6.0 RECOMMENDATIONS
Based on the observation, the Committee recommends the Executive to urgently consider the following pursuant to the need to preserve and protect our wetlands.
6.1 The Executive should consider establishing an Environmental Commission in the manner of the Independent Commissions by December 2020.
6.2 The Minister of Environment, Climate, Tourism and
Hospitality Industry should review and update the National
Environmental Plan in a manner which recognises the importance and protection of wetlands as required by the Environmental Management Act by end of December 2020.
6.3 The Minister of Environment, Climate ,Tourism and
Hospitality Industry, in liaison with the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing should direct the development and production of Local Authority Environmental Action Plans which follow the National Environmental Plan as provided by the
Environmental Management Act by end of September 2020.
6.4 The Executive should establish an Environmental Tribunal, composed of legally qualified commissioners with expertise in environmental issues and with punitive jurisdiction, to investigate violations of environmental laws by end of July 2020.
6.5 The Minister of Environment, Climate, Tourism and
Hospitality Industry should bring a Bill to amend the Environmental Management Act incorporating and consolidating all relevant existing legislation in order to remove the duplications relating to wetlands management and covering the problem of private individuals holding title deeds over wetlands by November 2020. The Bill must provide for a default position that development must be stopped once legal proceedings challenging construction on a prima facie wetland have been initiated. It must also provide that all development on wetland is prohibited other than in the most exceptional of circumstances and that the onus should lie on the developer to approach the courts proving why development on wetlands is in the public interest.
6.6 The Ministry of Environment, Climate, Tourism and Hospitality Industry should carry out an audit to ascertain the current private ownership of wetlands by end of July 2020. All wetlands must be mapped with expert input and their territorial footprint legislated by end of December 2020.
6.7 The Ministry of Environment, Climate, Tourism and
Hospitality Industry should domesticate the provisions of the Ramsar Convention and Convention on Biodiversity and liaise with the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to incorporate them into Zimbabwe’s municipal law by December 2020
6.8 The Ministry of Environment, Climate, Tourism and Hospitality Industry should revise the EIA Certificate inspection fees by end of September 2020.
6.9 The Minister of Environment, Climate, Tourism and Hospitality Industry should strictly comply with the requirement to submit statutory reports on the activities of EMA and the state of the environment as provided for in the Environmental Management Act by December 2020.
6.10 The Ministry of Environment, Climate , Tourism and Hospitality Industry should direct the suspension of all ongoing and proposed developments on Harare’s wetlands in terms of section 113 (1) of the Environmental Management Act by August 2020.
6.11 Environmental Management Agency and the City of Harare should review all Development Permits which were unlawfully issued in the absence of EIA certificates, consultation with residents, the approval of Catchment or Sub-Catchment Councils by December 2020.
7.0 Conclusion
The state should do everything within its power to curb the persistent destruction of our wetlands. Failure to do so is a direct violation of the Ramsar Convention on Wetlands which the country is a party to. The Committee calls for an immediate action to stop further destruction of wetlands and their ecosystem services and restore those that have been disturbed.
*HON. SAIZI: Let me take this opportunity Mr. Speaker Sir, to add my voice to the report that has been tabled by the Portfolio Committee on Environment. Before going to the debate, let me first and foremost, inform this House that environmental issues affect all of us. If we mishandle such issues, we will have offended the people of Zimbabwe.
My debate is to concentrate more on Harare because Harare houses the Parliament, it has an educated population and Harare is the worst abuser of wetlands. Firstly, we should appreciate that the state of affairs in Harare is that it was built at the sources of Hunyani and Mazowe Rivers so the location of Harare is in a wetland. People may not appreciate this because there has been a high demand of various types of residential stands in Harare; as a result, houses are mushrooming everywhere. If we were to go in the direction of Epworth, you would see construction, go to Budiriro you will see houses being constructed and all over Harare there is construction going.
However, construction of these houses is taking place in wetlands. Year in, year out, we observe such constructions happening under the watch of the City Council, Local Government, Environment
Management Agency and other law agencies. This shows that our laws are not being discharged properly. Monavale is an area that was set aside as a wetland area, but if you look at the developments that are taking place, you would see that the National Sports Stadium and Long Cheng Plaza were also built on that area. People are busy cultivating maize. This goes to show that such agricultural activities are affecting our wetlands.
We should be aware that we are now at 20% siltation of Lake Chivero which is being caused by stream bank cultivation as well as cultivation in wetlands. Thirteen letters have been written people raising concerns about such issues but no one has responded to those letters.
On the issue of Chishawasha Hills, you will then see that people, once they become loaded with money, do a lot of things that are unnatural. People are busy carrying out construction and diverting the course of the river which is a natural river. One can clearly observe this that these houses that are being built are built on the river and the river course is being diverted. Should we have floods, they run the risk of being affected. I would want to believe that in the 2016/17 rainy season, we observed that in Chitungwiza and in Budiriro, houses were flooded. It is not surprising that some Members of Parliament that might have been here during that time lost their properties because we were ignorant and we had not enlightened people on the need to conserve wetlands.
If we look at the water that is flowing towards Lake Chivero, it is contaminated with fertilizers; this is emanating from agricultural activities. It is my request to this august House that we should closely look into this. I want to believe that every member of this august House knows what we are talking about but it is not being given the weight that it deserves. We are busy destroying our future and the future of our children.
Mr. Speaker, I am aware that people are in need of residential stands but the manner which the stands are sprouting up, this should be curtailed. We want to thank your Committee Hon. Speaker for the visits that it carried out. They were able to stop the construction of a church in that area because it was found out that the construction was being carried out improperly. This was a job well done.
Therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe that it would have been good if this august House was to listen to our recommendations as a Committee. Government should quickly come up with a policy of the creation of a commission and the commission should have commissioners that are well versed in environmental issues so that we do not mix environmental issues with criminal issues. There must be a court to deal with such offenders. Again, I reiterate that there should be a commission that should be empowered and have an Act of Parliament so that it operates just like ZEC. There should also be a Bill that looks into alleviating all these problems that we are facing and come up with alignment of all the laws that we are talking about. At one time Monavale was declared a residential area and a developer came and went to EMA and EMA did not grant the developer authority to develop the area. In 2015 in December the same developer went to the City and was authorised to carry out his duties. This shows that our activities are not well coordinated. When these amendments are being put into place there must be in harmony and must speak to each other in as far as environmental issues are concerned.
Mr. Speaker, if we were to go to Kenya, wherever there is a wet land, it will be marked with an X and when you go there you see that it a land that is not for construction. Mr. Speaker, it is my plea that when such a Bill is being crafted, the Cabinet should closely look into the issues of those that were allocated stands in wet lands so that they can be relocated and compensated.
Furthermore, we urge that they should not continue carrying out such developments in wetlands. It is a plea that the issue of wetlands should be properly looked into and the misdemeanors that are taking place curtailed. Mr. Speaker Sir, even in Macheke, people are busy constructing in wetlands. This does not help us at all and we will get nowhere as a country. Thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SAIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020.
On the motion of THE OF THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF
HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON.
MADIRO), the House adjourned at Twenty-Two Minutes past Four o’clock p. m. until Tuesday, 3rd March, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 27th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
INDIA CONSTITUTION DAY CELEBRATIONS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to
remind the House that the Indian Embassy is inviting all Hon. Members of Parliament to attend the India Constitution Day Celebrations to be held today at 1730 hours in the National Assembly Chamber.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am briefed
that there are two major events taking place; one in Victoria Falls which involves the Conference on SDGs by the UN and the other being a Binational Commission being held in Botswana and I am told many Ministers have attended to those two important events.
I have received apologies from O C Z Muchinguri, Minister of
Defence and War Veterans Affairs, Hon. Prof. A. Murwira, Minister of
Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology
Development; Hon. J. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. D. Karoro, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement, Hon. V P Haritatos, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water and Rural Resettlement; Hon. M. Chombo, Deputy
Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. R. I. Modi,
Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce and Hon. T. Marapira, Minister of State in the Vice President Mohadi’s Office.
In the meantime, we have the Minister of State for National
Security in the Office of the President, Hon. Ncube as well as Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs, Hon. Matemadanda. I fully understand that it is nicer to have a wider bench but I think we do have circumstances which are beyond our control. So, whilst we wait for the possible arrival of other Ministers, we have to make do with the two Hon. Ministers who have been able to make it that far into the Senate.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. My
question is directed to the Hon. Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans. Hon. Minister, recently the Government has proposed a 2.5% tax to start subsidising stocks in the barracks as a special arrangement for the defence forces? Hon. Minister, can you tell us whether you think that is a well thought idea instead of increasing the disposable income of our defence forces. I do not think they need rations because those rations do not pay school fees for their children. Can you tell us whether you think this is the correct recipe to address the interest and the issues regarding our defence forces because the state of our defence forces is a security issue?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS AFFAIRS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr.
President. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for a sympathetic question but I feel that this is a question on a particular incident, which obviously will need the answer from the technical people because it involves funds allocation. That is a question that can be directed to the finance people. However, I will only want to say there is no budget that can be sufficient at the moment, considering that our economy is undergoing reforms and resuscitation. The best person to ask such a question would be the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. As for whether that allocation can be enough to sustain defence activities, I think it is the technical people who do the day to day running of things like ration as you rightly mentioned. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think the
right person to direct that question is the Minister of Finance. That statement, if I am not mistaken, was made by the Minister Finance. So it is a financial issue. I hope in the near future we will have the Minister of Finance here and he can answer that question.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Hon. President for allowing
me to ask my question. My question is directed to the Minister of State for National Security in the President’s Office, Hon. Ncube. Thank you for coming, I think it is my first time to see you in this House, so welcome to the Senate. My question is - what has your Ministry done about the Mashurugwi and the security threat that they have caused to the nation? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY
IN THE PRESIDENT’S OFFICE (HON. O. NCUBE): Thank you
Mr. President. This question should be directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage, who is here.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My question is not a home affairs issue,
it is not about arrests. I was talking about the security threat that is caused by Mashurugwi gangsters. What is his Ministry doing about that security threat?
HON. O. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking such a pertinent question. The issue of MaShurugwi has been dealt with in the country. I think we are only left to account for one group. All the other groups have been arrested. They have appeared in court and some of them have been sentenced. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I guess maybe myself and the Minister have got some communication challenges. I am not talking about arrests.
I am talking about the threat to this country’s security and how that has been dealt with as a matter of policy rather than as a matter of arrest and practical implementation.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before the
Minister answers, I believe I have seen somewhere that the police have been deployed and the Minister of Home Affairs has issued a statement.
Perhaps Deputy Minister Hon. Madiro might want to comment on that.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you very much
Mr. President. With your indulgence, the issue relating to MaShurugwi is on the Order Paper and that question is within the context of our response on Written Answers to Questions with Notice which should be comprehensive.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Allow me to direct my
question to the Minister of Defence. Mr. President, it is good for the war collaborators to have their issues addressed. Some of them are now old and others are deceased without getting any reward of the job they did for our independence. Now that our Independence celebrations are around the corner, there are areas where heroes are buried in various districts. These areas are not being taken care of. What is being done to take care of these burial sites of our heroes in districts?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr. President, I
want to thank the Hon. Senator for his question. That question was asked several times and it shows an interest on issues to do with liberation war veterans. Let me answer by saying a Bill which has to do with the issues of war veterans who are catergorised in four areas has been presented to Parliament for the first reading. I hope by next week it will be on second reading. It shows that the Bill is progressing very well according to the procedures in Parliament.
On the second part of your question relating to burial sites for war veterans, that question should be directed to the Ministry of Home Affairs. In the Defence Ministry, we take care of those who are still living but for those who have departed, it is the responsibility of the Ministry of Home Affairs.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Mr.
President for the question raised by the Hon Member. The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage is responsible for looking after all national shrines. There are three categories relating to these areas. Firstly, there is the National Heroes Acre, then secondly there are Provincial Heroes Acres which are ten in the country and lastly burial sites for those who died during the liberation struggle in neighbouring countries like Mozambique, Chimoio, Nyadzonia and Freedom Camp in Zambia. The Government has a plan especially in those areas outside the country that these shrines be maintained very well in collaboration with those countries through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As the Ministry of Home Affairs, we are going to build monuments in those areas including facilities such as amenities. This will be done as a way of honouring our fallen heroes.
The National Heroes Acre is in good shape but we still need to revamp it so that is looks decent for our heroes. As you know, during the liberation struggle our heroes were tortured by the regime and hence our heroes are dying. We have other graves that do not have tombstones, so we have plans to erect headstones at these graves.
It is a good thing that our chiefs always remember and encourage the Government to respect our liberation war heroes. I thank you. *HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My question is directed to the Leader of the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Who said
there is Leader of the House? We did not announce who the Acting Leader of the House is. We have Ministers here. Just proceed to ask your question.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My question relates to extra lessons being conducted by teachers after normal working hours. Teachers are engaging in extra lessons and they do it outside school time. It is their way of making extra money. You know that teachers earn $1 000. They do not do it during school hours but they do it outside and they get extra cash so that they can survive.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I had not
been advised that Hon. Ncube is the acting Leader of the House. I do not know how you got that information before I got it myself, whether it is your super intelligence or what –[Laughter] -.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: It was a way of boosting the moral of the teachers so that they supplement their meager salaries, but we are reading from the newspapers and radios that ZACC is after them so that it will be stopped, but is the Government looking at the negative side of the story that the teachers would be demoralised or they will end up opening schools secretly where they would engage in doing extra lessons after school. So we want to find out whether that can be done on a voluntary basis between the parents and the teachers. I think it is an idea which we should leave in place so that teachers and parents agree. Thank you Mr. President.
*THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY
(HON. O. NCUBE): In the Government they know how to pay their salaries. It is a secret engagement between teachers and salaries not within the law and it is not allowed. So if ZACC goes after them that is good because it is not within the law.
+HON.SEN. S. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to ask the Minister if they are aware that teachers have letters of agreement with schools that teachers should go to school once a week giving reasons that the money that they get is only equivalent for them to be coming to school for teaching lessons once a week.
HON. O. NCUBE: Unfortunately I did not get the question as I do not understand Ndebele.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Can anyone
take it up?
*THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS
AFFAIRS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr. President –
[HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: Inaudible interjection.] -
HON. MATEMADANDA: I am allowed to speak in Shona.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Minister
you are right. You do not demand they talk in that language. You chose Ndebele and he is choosing Shona, but anyway you may answer the question in Ndebele.
+HON. MATEMADANDA: The question was does the Minister
know that there is an agreement between a teacher’s organisation and the teachers to go to work once a week, but in answering I will say that is it policy that a teacher’s organisation should put an instruction that teachers should not attend lessons? It would only be allowed if it becomes policy or law, but if it is an agreement that they do on their own, then it becomes unlawful. Therefore we cannot speak of an unlawful situation that is caused by an organisation for teachers and say that is the situation and that is how things should be.
It is not legal for the teacher’s organisation to instruct teachers not to go for work. So we cannot discuss about an illegality on other illegal things that are happening. Maybe it becomes a constitutional question.
HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: There is something I wish to clarify. I understand what the Minister is saying but that is the position that is in the schools. Is the Government aware of that letter which was written to schools by the Progressive Teachers Union of Zimbabwe (PTUZ). It may not be Government policy but is the Government aware of that.
HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you Mr. President. My
answer is that morality is not conventionality neither is it legal. So the issue that people agree to smoke dagga and they say that people from a certain area smokes dagga does not mean that that is what is happening because most people from there are smoking dagga. It is still a crime even if many people are engaging in that activity.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question is directed to the Minister of State Security and I want to join my colleague who earlier on said that we welcome you to this House Hon. Minister after a very long time. My question is that we have read in the newspapers but especially in the international newspapers on line about the threat of an organisation either linked to ISIS or similar to ISIS in the Republic of
Mozambique in the area of Carbo Delgado and that the British
Government has in fact issued a travel warning to its citizens.
The question is how credible is this threat to Zimbabwe and if so what has the Government done about it to safeguard the people of Zimbabwe, especially the people in the eastern province of Manicaland with regard to the history of the RENAMO incursions and so on.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY
(HON. O. NCUBE): I would like to thank the Hon. Member for those questions. You say you have read in the newspapers. Yes, in Mozambique there are, we cannot call them dissidents, who are operating in Cabo Delgado and this has not affected us but we are seized with monitoring the situation. It has not even affected our eastern boarders.
The other question you asked – that one we will refer to Interpol because it is more of Home Affairs.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. Is he aware that police stations in rural areas are in such bad state and do not even have benches? Can we say that this is a country?
Does the Ministry know that they are supposed to allocate a budget to buy chairs for the police camps that currently resemble caves?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Mr.
President and thank you Hon. Senator for the question on the status of rural police stations. The Ministry is aware of the current status of rural police stations like he said but not all police stations are in such poor conditions. In other stations the situation, is better but in other stations, the challenge that we have is of scarce resources. I concur with the Hon. Senator and you are aware how difficult it is for our Government due to sanctions.
This country, I can say, is another example of the effects of sanctions but the Government is trying its best to mobilise resources so that our police officers work in conducive environments. I want to believe that Government, through our sister Ministries of Local
Government and Public Works and Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage have a plan so that we have institutional accommodation that includes offices, chairs, tables and other equipment including accommodation for police officers. All these issues are being looked into so that they work happily.
The job of the police of arresting people must be done when they are happy. They have to execute their duties happily. Government is aware of the situation but the Government has taken up this burden of fixing the matter.
*HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
the opportunity to pose a supplementary question through you Sir. The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage wants Zimbabweans to believe that the country cannot produce furniture for police stations using our own trees. Is he stating that this is being affected by sanctions? Mr. President, if the Hon. Minister could give us a respectable response please.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,
order. What you just said is a comment and not a question Hon. Member and it is your right but it is being taken as a comment.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. I want to find out from the Hon. Deputy Minister if there is any provision that was made …
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Which
Deputy Minister?
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: It is a supplementary question to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You are
right, please proceed.
HON. B. MPOFU: If there was any provision in this year’s budget to address what has been noted by the Hon. Chief. We want to know whether anything is going to be done this year? I know he said that Government is working on something but was there provision? If there was, what is the timeline to deal with the issue? Thank you.
HON. MADIRO: Thank you very much Mr. President. The Hon.
Senator asked a supplementary question pertaining to the provisions for amenities and other accessories in the various stations particularly in the rural areas and whether there is any budgetary allocation to take care of the situation.
I want to say Hon. President that yes, in the recent budget by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development; the Hon. Senator is aware that we had a recent disaster in Chimanimani, Cyclone Idai. Much of our budget has been taken up to rehabilitate stations in those areas that were swept away by the disaster and within the budgetary allocations, it is not adequate to take care of the situation throughout the whole country as envisaged by our Hon. Chief. Government will continuously allocate resources to make sure that the situation is ameliorated progressively.
However, we take note of the concerns of Hon. Senators here and thank and appreciate their concerns that the law enforcement officers do their policing in a conducive environment in order for them to achieve their mandate but that can be done within the constraints of scarce resources within the budget. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage through you Mr. President.
Mr. President, there are robbers along Beitbridge road. I want to know what plans are in place as a Ministry that looks at welfare of people in terms of the laws of this country. What are they doing about these people because these robbers have hit about three or four times? People are being robbed of all their wares that they would have bought from South Africa. What is the Ministry doing because the area is the same, which is 15km away from Beitbridge because the robberies are taking place at the same area? What is the Ministry doing to apprehend these robbers?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Mr.
President. Hon. Senator, the question of safeguarding the lives of people and their property is very pertinent but this question is too specific as it refers to a particular place. So, with due respect, I think the Hon.
Senator should put the question in writing so that I can bring a befitting response next week.
Hon. Sen. P. Ndlovu having stood up to pose a question.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You may sit
down Hon. Senator, I will give you the opportunity. It is Hon. Senator P. Ndlovu right? - [HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: Yes Mr. President.] - I will give you the opportunity but right now on my list I have Hon. Sen.
Chief Ngezi.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage.
I do not know the plans that you have in retaining the culture that was there so that police stations would get their fuel allocations and cars so that they will be able to deliver. Often times you find that police officers cannot access accident scenes because they do not have fuel and vehicles.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Mr.
President and I also want to thank Hon. Chief Ngezi for the question referring to fuel and police vehicles.
I can confirm that it is very true that in most areas, police officers do not have vehicles. When there are vehicles, then we can talk about fuel but there are no vehicles so we cannot make reference to fuel but Government is aware of the challenges that the police have.
Government is not just seated but working on it. As we are speaking, Government is at an advanced stage in securing few vehicles to post to stations that are far, like in areas where there are a lot of challenges in terms of robberies - those places will get first preference.
Government’s wish is for all police stations to have fuel and vehicles to use. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I would like to thank the Minister of Home Affairs for acknowledging that at least something is being done. I would like to find out the timeline now that he has indicated that we are expecting cars in different areas? Is this going to happen in this particular financial year or not?
*HON. MADIRO: I am very happy to hear the Hon. Sen. inquiring the timeline on when this is going to happen and which financial year. We are looking forward to have cars which will be distributed in the various areas that I talked about if there are no unforeseen circumstances this year.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Energy. Today it is a Thursday and we are adjourning Parliament and we go back home to our families. This country is in a crisis. There is a lot of noise because of fuel. We do not know which plans you have for us so that we acquire fuel so that we go back to our constituencies and our families. The fuel that we are getting now is in
US$. There is no fuel being sold in bond notes or in our local currency. What are we supposed to do? We have plans to go home tomorrow morning. We are in a tight situation and the country seems to be in a difficult position.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): The question is very specific – she wants to know how she gets back home tomorrow....
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, I think what
the Hon. Sen. wanted to ask on is availability of fuel. You may take this opportunity to appraise the Hon. Senate on the fuel situation.
*HON. MUDYIWA: Let me check for the figures to see how much fuel has been offloaded to various service stations. Let me say that fuel is in the country everyday but we cannot collect that fuel because it is bonded. It is not the Ministry of Energy and Power Development which has to do with fuel but the Ministry of Finance and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe are the other players in the issue of fuel.
As a Ministry, our fuel is there. We work together with RBZ and the Ministry of Finance to make sure that fuel is from our depots to service stations. Yes of course fuel from our depots to service stations is scarce because of reasons that are beyond our Ministry’s control. Our wish is that fuel should be available and one can get it whenever he or she wants it. That is why I was saying I wanted to check today’s figures to see how many litres we got which were offloaded yesterday from our depots to service stations.
We are not aware of the fact that fuel is being sold in US dollars at service stations. As I have said before in this House, there are few service stations which have been given authority to sell in foreign currency especially US dollars. These are the service stations that are selling to NGOs and Diplomats but there is a new plan which needs to be implemented. Service stations and fuel traders who have their foreign currency can buy fuel outside and bring it in here. That is being done by the Ministry of Finance and Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. I cannot answer on that one. Those who are selling fuel in US dollars without authority are breaking the law. That is what I can say about
fuel.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Minister, your
colleague Members of Parliament are going through difficult times and it would be useful if you could – I know the Clerk has attempted on his part to try and make some arrangements because they do have coupons and they are going to get coupons after this meeting and there is nowhere to get the fuel. I think that is their challenge. It would be very useful Minister if you could make an arrangement to have a service station where you can put fuel and the Hon. Members can go with their coupons and draw fuel. This is the concern of your fellow colleagues. That is what they are trying to put across. Knowing you, I am sure you can arrange something.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. President for that idea but the
Clerk of Parliament is working on trying to get a service station where Hon. Members can get fuel. As a Ministry, we have Petrotrade and it is the one which we control. It is the one which we can give directives on what they can do because they were under our Ministry. Other supplies like Puma, Engin and Zuva are independent suppliers. So Parliament has to come, we sit down with the Ministry of Energy and we talk. What I know is that Parliament coupons are for Puma and not for Petrotrade. That is why we cannot help each other but as the Ministry, we have Petrotrade. If you could get coupons from Petrotrade, we could make arrangements that you get fuel. That is what I can say Mr. President. If Parliament have other arrangements, we will see them coming to our Ministry so that we plan together to make sure that Hon. Members of Parliament get fuel. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I know how
much suffering Members of Parliament are going through in terms of fuel. I will personally take it up with the Clerk of Parliament and the Ministry so that we find a way of alleviating it. It has gone too far. We now need to move on and avoid this question time being about fuel.
+HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Leader of the House. I would want to find out - if one travells through Victoria Falls Road, there is a tent that fell down. That is very embarrassing. Is the Government aware of this issue?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon.
Minister, I do not know whether you captured that question?
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY
(HON. O. NCUBE): No, I did not capture it.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Ndlovu, I know it is your perfect and alienable right to speak in a language of your choice, but we have a situation where the Minister has not understood your question. I am asking you or perhaps requesting that somebody translates that question so that it can be answered. I know it is your perfect right to speak in a language of your choice.
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: Thank you Mr. President. The
question is - there is a tent by the tollgate which is in the road to Victoria Falls. This tent is not suitable for the officers to use because it is shameful for the tourists to see it. The road to Victoria Falls is used by tourists from other countries, so that tent is on the tollgate to Victoria Falls and it is not good.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is a
specific question which is not policy. Questions without Notice are normally questions on policy. However, that situation can be addressed if you put it in writing and the relevant Minister will respond to it.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. What is Government policy with regards to people who are trading in US dollars yet the country said people should use our local currency?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Let me say when a
crime is committed and if it comes to the ears of the police, they investigate the untruthfulness of the case and a person is arrested but world over, for the police to work on arresting people, they can do it when they work with the people of that country. It is the job of all of us to report cases like someone who uses US$. If that is brought to the police, they will investigate. If they find out that it is true, they will arrest. It is unlawful for people to do whatever they want especially on that issue. The problem is; if two people sell between themselves, a businessman and a customer, the customer does not want to come and be a witness in court and the case falls apart. We need to unite as citizens and the police so that courts can convict people who are committing the crime. That issue is talked about as rumour and no one is reporting such cases. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President. My
supplementary question is, we have heard that there are people who trade and people said that if we go outside we see them lined up with foreign money...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is not a
supplementary question. You are merely repeating the question which was asked and that question has been answered.
HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for according
me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Energy. I want to hear from the Minister – we are facing a lot of challenges with electricity. It is very expensive and so, I want to hear on the debt that we are paying. What is Government policy because even if you buy electricity worth $500.00, after one week they would have finished and we do not have them throughout the day? They are not
lasting.
* HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. President, I want to thank
the Hon. Senator for her question. On electricity, I think the Hon. Sen.
is aware that we now have new tariffs. The first 50 units are for domestic use, the new tariff system is called stepped up tariff system. First 50 tariffs are sold at low cost then 51 to 200 at a higher cost; if you go more than 200 it is much more. As of now I do not have the figures at hand. So the units that you used to consume are no longer the same, you are now getting less units.
On the issue of debts, there is no policy unless if the person was in debt already when they switched over to prepayment. If the person was in debt the debts were carried over, so if they buy electricity ZESA deducts a certain percentage to settle the debt. So the amount will not match the remitted amount because a certain percentage will be deducted to settle the debt. I think this is the only explanation that I have; if I had the figures I would have articulated well. On usage of electricity in homes, it also depends on your usage. Yes, electricity might be available at night only but when electricity comes, what is it used for? That is why we are saying we should save the little electricity that we have. We should not use incessant bulbs, we should use led bulbs that save electricity and also switch off lights in the rooms that you are not using. Some leave computers or televisions on; the sleeping mode will be on, which means it is using electricity. So you will be using electricity unaware.
We are trying by all means to save electricity by using led bulbs that save energy. We are encouraging people to use them and to switch off electricity geysers, they consume a lot of power. We must switch on to solar geysers. I agree with the Hon. Sen. that the units she used to buy with RTGs500 are no longer the same.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No.
62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I defer
questions 1 to 12.
PROTECTION OF SMALL SCALE MINERS FROM ATTACKS
BY MACHETE WIELDING GANGSTERS
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the House measures being taken by the Government to protect small scale miners from attacks by machete wielding gangsters popularly known as Mashurugwi who are marauding around the country committing heinous crimes.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you very much
Mr. President. I thank the Hon. Senator for the question. I wish to thank the Hon. Sen. for the question and concur with him that illegal artisanal miners are not only committing violent crimes such as murder, robbery, rape and assault but are also causing serious environmental degradation, soil erosion, deforestation, loss of biodiversity as well as contamination of soil, ground and surface water caused by chemicals emitted from illegal mining activities.
Mr. President, allow me to inform the Hon. Sen. that from January 2019 to date, nine murders and 27 murders cases were recorded in Silobela alone, of which six and 20 accused persons respectively were arrested and referred to court. On this note, it is critical to highlight that none of these crimes occurred at mining sites but they occurred at beer outlets and in homes following misunderstandings and domestic disputes.
Throughout the country, from January 2019 to date, a total of 35 murders, 225 robberies, 382 assaults and 15 rape cases were committed by machete-wielding gangsters. However, there are numerous ongoing measures in all the provinces aimed at containing violent crimes perpetrated by artisanal miners. The measures which the Ministry is taking include the following:
- Raids at panning sites conducted from time to time to arrest
illegal artisanal miners and vendors. In this regard, it is interesting to note that from 4th March, 2019 to date, 6 229 illegal artisanal miners and 1922 offenders were arrested and either made to pay fines or referred to court for possessing dangerous weapons.
- Roadblocks which are set up to search for machetes, knives, weapons, iron bars and other dangerous weapons that can be used to murder, rob and harm innocent citizens.
- Prohibition Orders for carrying dangerous weapons which are issued by Officers Commanding Districts who are regulatory authorities barring the carrying of dangerous weapons in terms of
Section 4 (1) of Maintenance of Peace and Order and Security Act (Chapter 11:23). In addition, stop and searches are being conducted in areas infested with illegal artisanal miners and those found with dangerous weapons.
- Campaigns which are being conducted with a view to dissuade members of the public to desist from committing all forms of violence, respect the sanctity of human life and resolve any differences amicably.
- Engaging the judiciary by Police Commanders at national, provincial and district levels to impose stiffer penalties on perpetrators of violent crimes and Mines and Minerals Act offenders.
- Police Operations. The Zimbabwe Republic Police embarked on an Operation code named “No to anarchy by artisanal miners” from January 2019 to December 2019. The operation was running concurrently with another operation code named “No to dangerous weapons” in which people carrying dangerous weapons such as machetes, knives, spears and knobkerries which are used by gangsters to commit crimes such as murder, assault, rape and public violence were being arrested. Operation “No to dangerous weapons” proceeded the issuance of prohibition orders by
Regulating Authorities in all provinces banning the carrying of dangerous weapons. This is in terms of Section 4 (1) of the Maintenance of Peace and Order Act [11:23].
As machete-wielding gangsters continued to wreak havoc, the ZRP stepped up its efforts and launched a massive operation code named
“Chikorokoza Ngachipere/isitsheketsha kasiphele and No to Machete Gangs” which commenced on 14 January 2020 after resources for the first phase of the operation were made available. The operation is ongoing in all provinces and is aimed at arresting machete wielding criminals.
In addition to raids by individual provinces, a National Task Force led by Support Unit was set up, targeting one province at a time. So far Mashonaland Central, Manicaland and Mashonaland East have been cleared of illegal panners in areas which were heavily concentrated. The areas so far cleared of illegal panners in the three provinces are;
Mashonaland Central Province
- Jumbo Mine
- Mazowe River
- Storis Mine
- Christon Bank
- Shamva Mine
- Mt Darwin
- Kitsiyatota
Manicaland Province
- Parts of Mutare River
- Penhalonga
- Premier Central
- Parts of Odzi River
Mashonaland East Province
- Mutawatawa
- Makosa
- Mudzi
- Parts of Mazowe River
ACCESSING OF PRIMARY DOCUMENTS BY PEOPLE LIVING
WITH DISABILITIES
14 HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU asked the Minister of Home
Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the House:-
- Measures being taken by the Ministry to ensure that people living with disabilities timeously access their primary documents; and
- Whether this group is given due preferential treatment when they visit the Registrar General’s Office
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): The Registrar
General’s Department has decentralised registry offices and has static provincial, district and sub offices countrywide. All mandatory vital civil registration documents that is birth certificates, death certificates and national identify documents are issued at these offices. The Department also carries out mobile registration exercises and these are meant to cater for everyone, including vulnerable groups. In instances where due to the nature of the disability an applicant is unable to come to the office, the Department visits the applicant to facilitate registration.
Officers in the Department are constantly reminded to ensure that people with disabilities timeously access their primary documents and do not stand in queues.
- b) It has always been the Ministry’s custom to give preferential
treatment to people living with disabilities when it comes to accessing their primary documents.
During the vetting process, vulnerable clients are identified and given preferential treatment. They are not made to wait in the queue. These include people living with disabilities, the sick, the elderly as well as pregnant and nursing mothers. In some case the officers encourage the applicant to be accompanied by a near relative, for assistance. They are timesouly assisted as soon as they get to the offices.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON DEPUTY
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No.
62.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
NATIONAL SECURITY (HON. O. NCUBE) the Senate adjourned
at Twelve Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 3rd March 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
SUBMSSION OF BIOGRAPHIES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to
remind Hon. Senators who have not yet submitted their biographies to Public Relations Department to do so at Parliament Building, Office Number 312, 3rd Floor, South Wing and Office Number 520, 5th Floor,
South Wing, Pax House.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 1 to 5 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 6 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE ZIMBABWEAN DELAGATION BILATERAL
VISIT, CUBA
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move the motion
standing my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwean delegation to Havana, Cuba for a Bilateral Visit from 1st to 6th September, 2019.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Hon. President.
This delegation was led by the President of the Senate Hon. Chinomona.
The Zimbabwean Ambassador to Cuba became part of our delegation, His Excellency Ignatius Graham Mudzimba but he also provided administrative and logistical support to the delegation throughout our visit. The Bilateral visit provided a platform for the Parliament of
Zimbabwe and National Assembly of People’s Power to explore possibilities and possible areas of cooperation with the aim of furthering the bilateral relations that exist between our two countries.
The visit was also an opportunity for Parliament to learn the relationship between Zimbabwe and Cuba and to know that it is now a shifting relationship and moving away from the traditional cooperation in education and health and it is breaking into new areas, particularly technology, tourism; among others. We first had briefing by the Ambassador of the Republic of Zimbabwe to Cuba. He set us down and briefed us of what is happening in Cuba and outstanding in his brief was the fact that the Mission was seized with broadening the cooperation from the traditional education and health sectors to areas of manufacturing, pharmaceuticals and tourism.
He also lamented the embargo on Cuba that was affecting the country in various sectors, which include but are not limited to fuel supply, dwindling tourist arrivals and general unavailability of basic commodities on the local market. I think this is very important because while we may be having sanctions, they have an embargo. An embargo is a much more powerful tool that is being used against Cuba. He added that according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, his Mission should not cover Cuba alone and this is very instructive but it covers ten more island countries namely Bahamas,
Guyana, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cayman Islands, Jamaica, Haiti, French Guinea and Surinam. However, due to financial constraints, the ambassador has not been able to present papers of credence to any of the above-mentioned countries. Consequently, cooperation with these countries has been limited to informal interactions with no concrete brokering of deals that benefit these countries and Zimbabwe.
He highlighted the difficult operating environment in Cuba characterised by unpaid rentals at the Chancery and at the ambassador’s residence. If they get US dollars they are penalised by Government there. They have obsolete utility vehicles, dilapidated furniture and are short of very basic commodities.
While responding to the ambassador, the Hon President of the
Senate commended the staff for their innovation and maintaining the
Chancery operational. She also undertook to engage the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade on all important issues raised by the ambassador and his staff. She observed that the establishment of diplomatic relations with ten island countries was urgent and overdue as this would unlock opportunities for Zimbabwe in various sectors in line with the national stance that Zimbabwe is open for business. She added that a solution ought to be found regarding remuneration of the staff in
Euros to cushion them against the levies imposed by the Cuban
Government for the US dollar.
We then visited this iconic place called Jose Marti Memorial and we also visited the House of Africa and Colon Metropolis where they put their heroes. Jose Marti Memorial is a Cuban National Heritage
Centre designed to honour, preserve and showcase the life of Jose the Cuban liberation icon. It is a big place. They trace his history from childhood and it is very instructive how he became a national hero in Cuba. The House of Africa is a museum displaying the rich African culture and its diversity. It houses several artifacts that were presented as gifts to the late former President of Cuba, Fidel Castro by different African leaders. We went to this big museum which is three stories and all of it is just full of artifacts and gifts that came from various African governments including our very own. It was very impressive that you get such a place. It shows how Cuba respects and is very attached to its African heritage. Visits to these historical sites exposed the delegation to
Cuba’s strong attachment to the African continent.
We then visited the Generic Engineering and Biotechnology Centre. Here we were addressed by Dr Manuel Perez Castaneda. This centre is very impressive. The delegation was given an insight into the historical background of the centre and the following were highlighted. As we got in, one of the things that was amazing was that they actually had full statistics on Zimbabwe’s health sector. They were telling us about our diabetes levels, our HIV/AIDS levels, our hepatitis and so on and so forth. We used to think that it is only the Western countries that come and tell us but Cuba was telling us exactly our statistics.
The institution employs 22 000 employees has got 31 centres and
64 manufacturing facilities and it exports pharmaceuticals to the United States and Europe. The institution is designed to solve health problems and it is not necessarily an income generating venture. Cuba has technology to repair hearing impairment. While Zimbabwe is grappling with Hepatitis B, Cuba has managed to eradicate the disease and is prepared to assist Zimbabwe reach a safe destination. He however commended Zimbabwe for the big strides that we have made in malaria and HIV. Cuba is very advanced in cancer and diabetes treatment. I notice a lot of people are now going to Cuba for treatment of cancer and to look at their diabetic levels. Cuba is prepared to assist Zimbabwe to address the issue of hepatitis and HIV challenges.
We then met the President of the National Assembly. They do not have two houses. They have the National Assembly and the boss there was a very big man. You are big yourself Mr. President but he is twice as big. He received us and lauded the relationship between Cuba and Africa in general and Zimbabwe in particular. He made reference to 1.2 million slaves brought to Cuba from Africa and these slaves came mostly from West Africa. It is very significant and a lot of these fought in the Cuban wars for liberation. He indicated that Zimbabwe and Cuba cooperated intensely in education and health. This is well known now that in terms of education and health we really have been comrades. He also highlighted the US imposed embargo that it is crippling the economic development of Cuba and pointed out the blockade that was affecting movement of fuel from Venezuela into Cuba. The blockade is actually real. The US patrol, that sea between Cuba and Venezuela and if there are any ships that are taking oil to Cuba, they are blocked.
The delegation was appraised of the new Constitution of Cuba and the various reforms that Cuba was embarking on as well as the 53% women representation in Parliament. The Hon President of the National
People’s Power condemned the sanctions on Zimbabwe but encouraged resilience in light of the sanctions and look up to the cooperating nations for sustenance.
Cuba has managed to survive the sanctions with guidance of very strong political leadership and the dictates of communism and socialism planted by the late Fidel Castro and support from friendly countries. The delegation also learned that Cuba has three arms of government as enshrined in their constitution. Very similar to us; the Executive,
Legislature and the Judiciary. It was informed that the National Assembly of Peoples Power only meets twice a year. It is not this daily meeting. They meet twice a year. However, they have permanent committees which are working groups which work throughout the year and make recommendations where necessary to the National Assembly.
It is a very curious system.
In response to the points raised, the President of the Senate appreciated the assistance rendered to Zimbabwe by Cuba dating back to the liberation struggle up to the cooperation in health and education and she expressed her hope for continued cooperation in those fields. She advised that she herself was trained by Cubans in Ethiopia and that Fidel Castro was present at her pass out parade. She indicated that Zimbabwe was currently going through reforms and exploring various means to counter economic crisis caused by the sanctions.
The Hon. President of the Senate and the President of the National Peoples Power agreed to cooperate and assist each other in the fight against US sanctions at all global platforms including at the UN General Assembly. We then met with the Cuban Women Federation – we as men were told not to come to that. It was only the women delegates who met their fellow women members.
So the President of Senate delegation was apprised of the existence and operation of the Cuban Women’s Federation whose mandate is to improve the lives of Cuban women and defend the Cuban revolution while creating equality and promoting care for the family. With a membership of over 4 000 000 the Federation has made the following achievements.
- 66% of the professional and technical employees in Cuba are women.
- Reserving of a certain quota of the position in various sectors of the Cuban society. This resulted in the 5% women membership in Parliament.
- There was inclusion of women in the military service.
- Assisting members of the Federation who became incapacitated due to age or other means. I think this is so important when you have these sort of groupings that you assist each other.
- Vocational training of women especially young women in various areas such as agriculture amongst others.
- Promoting young women to take up leadership positions in view of Cuba’s aging population.
The delegation learnt that powerful Ministries such as Finance and Labour are occupied by women ministers. The Attorney General and the Governor of the Central Bank are also women and 80% of the legal fraternity are women. Above all, the Council of State of Cuba has five vice presidents and three of them are women. In their presidium, they have got the President then they have five vice presidents - of those, five vice presidents three of them are women and this Federation looks forward to a female president in the very near future.
In response the President of the Senate and her delegation appreciated the manner in which the Federation is run as it is nonpartisan, non-governmental but only focuses on achieving a society where women play a prominent role in developing the country, an idea that is worth emulating.
We then visited Varadero Tourist Resort. Varadero is really like their Victoria Falls. If you go to Cuba and you do not go to Varadero then know that you will really not have done much. So in order to appreciate Cuba as a tourist destination, the delegation undertook a tour of Varadero, a tourist resort located 150 km from Havana which accounts for at least 40% of the country’s GDP.
Cuba has invested very heavily in infrastructure development in this resort town. Varadero boasts of 50 up- market hotels with a total room capacity of 21 000 and expected to add another 3 000 by the year 2021. We went there, Mr. President, I did not think that Cuba had such hotels. In fact some of them were not five star but were actually seven star hotels. Big structures with glass all over overlooking the sea, beautiful and I think that it is something that we underestimate.
To circumvent the United States embargo, Cuba has relied on joint ventures with international companies from friendly nations to run the tourist industry which attracts up to 2 000 000 tourists every year.
We then went to the Ministry of Public Health, our equivalent of the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the delegation appreciated the following facts about the Cuban health system. We have about 2 000 to 3 000 doctors in this country and our population is about the same as Cuba. Cuba has 101 619 doctors, 46 000 of them are family doctors and the rural areas of Cuba are 100% covered by doctors. One doctor covers 110 citizens. One dentist covers 602 inhabitants and one nurse covers 128 citizens. The infant mortality rate is 4 per 1000 new born. We are at about 55. Life expectancy stands as 78 years. We have about four medical schools and Cuba has 13 schools of medicines and it also has
the Latin American School of Medicine and the National School of Public Health.
This, Mr. President, is very instructive. Access to health is universal and free of charge. In terms of facilities Cuba boasts of 131 maternity homes and homes for the elderly. We have not many houses for the elderly. I think each of our cities may have one or two but clearly we need to look at that. We are now getting an aging population.
We must look at that very thoroughly.
They have got day care homes for the elderly and they have got 12 research institutes. We have one. Twenty-eight percent of the nation’s budget accounts for 9.7% of the national GDP is allocated to the health sector. Cuba is currently running 11 vaccination programmes covering
13 diseases and it has eradicated certain diseases that we still have here. It has eradicated polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps and pertussis which is whooping cough.
Our prevalence rate for HIV in this country is about 15. The prevalence rate in Cuba for HIV is 0.27. Cuba has a presence of doctors in 164 countries including our own. The delegation appreciated the assistance rendered to Zimbabwe by Cuba in the health sector and sort collaboration in the area of pharmaceuticals. The delegation also agreed to recommend that the Ministry of Health and Child Care visit Cuba for an in-depth appreciation of the health sector and bench marking.
Observation
Cuba has a strong social services development thrust guided by socialism and communism propagated by Fidel Castro. The country’s budget allocations reflect this position. Zimbabwe can learn best practices from Cuba with regards to the development of the health, education, sciences and tourism sectors as key development drivers.
Cuba has well formulated policies in place for the establishment of its critical institutions. The key to their achievement in health and education can be attributed to their ability to craft clear policies which are implementable and time framed.
The sanctions imposed by the United States of America have been a motivating factor in Cuba’s quest for self determination politically and economically. Cuba has engaged friendly republics to circumvent the ills of the illegal embargo. Cuba also has to deal with United States of America allies such as Brazil that have become hostile to Cuba.
Gender equality is valued highly in Cuba. Zimbabwe should honour its agreement entered with Cuba in all sectors. For example students on scholarships, we experience serious delays in disbursements of stipends, the Bindura University of Science and Technology engaged Cuban lecturers to work at the university and since November 2018 the lecturers have been on standby as our university continues to cite non availability of funds to fly the lecturers to Zimbabwe, Cuban doctors in Zimbabwe continue to experience delays in payment of their salaries and the Zimbabwe Tourist Authority failed on two occasions to provide air tickets for a Cuban dance group that was due to perform at the Harare Carnival.
The documentation of Jose Marti’s history as well as the displays of the Africa House show how Cubans value and preserve their history and it is worth emulating. Zimbabwe can learn a lot from Cuba in the energy sector since Cuba has invested heavily in renewable energy production. Cuba boasts of power generation from the following sources – thermal, solar, biomass, wind as well as crude oil generation.
Cuba has benefited from investments from China, India and from the United Arab Emirates in the energy sector. Cuba has a solid industry producing cigars. With Zimbabwe’s tobacco production local business people could embark in cigar production with Cuban assistance.
Mr. President, the delegation then made various recommendations which I think I will leave for now because I think Members can read on those Hon. Members can read on those.
In conclusion, the bilateral visit opened an opportunity for further cooperation between the two legislatures and by extension, the two countries. It is therefore, imperative that Zimbabwe emulates Cuba, not only in the traditional areas of cooperation in education and health but also in the new areas of pharmaceuticals, manufacturing and tourism.
Accordingly, the relevant committees and ministries need to take ample action to address key issues raised in this report. I thank you. – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
very much Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa for your report. May I remind Hon. Senators once again to put your phones on silent or better still switch them off.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was presented. I am one of the delegates who participated and travelled to Cuba with Hon. Madam President. I learnt a lot on this journey. I am not feeling well, please accept my apology and that is why I am not speaking that eloquently.
In support of what Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa said in the report that he just tabled – all that he has said is very correct that is what we came across. I learnt that other countries are working together as a team. We were given a warm welcome by the President of the People’s Power and the National Assembly who welcomed us very well. They gave us the history on Cuba.
I also noted that as a nation, they still prioritise and uphold the importance of their history. We were also shown where Jose Marti is, even his clothes are still there – in fact all his clothes are still there. I realised that it is very important for people to preserve their history so that even the future generations know the history of their country. He elaborated on the structure of their Parliament and what I took as important is that the number of women parliamentarians is at 53%, which is what we wish for as Zimbabweans that we could have a similar scenario as that which prevails in Cuba. It is our wish to also have a good number of women parliamentarians.
I also noticed that they have been under sanctions for almost 57 years but you will not see it because of the way that they are working as a team and the way in which they respect their country. You will not pick the fact that they are a nation that is reeling under sanctions. They also indicated that it is because of the leadership of the late Fidel Castro.
Even after he has long passed on, they are still following in his footsteps.
They also highlighted the fact that they get assistance from countries that they work with. Those countries that are not working with them, they do not really bother themselves about them. He also indicated that they do not take into consideration the countries that are not in good books with them and do not allow them to come and divide their country as Cuba or allow them to interfere in their national relations. Yes, they do not have a stable economy but you will not pick it because they work as a team. He also enlightened that the way that they work as a team is what is making their nation not to really reflect that it is a nation that is under sanctions. This is the reason why they also value their currency and are using it, even when it does not have much value but as a nation, they love the way that they are using their currency. They emphasised the fact that they want visitors to use the
Cuban currency which is an indication of how they value their currency.
I also realised that working as a team promotes the growth of the economy. He also indicated the fact that their history is a bit on the painful side especially considering the way that their fore fathers used to work. At times when he was narrating their history, we shed some tears and they do not want to revert to a similar situation that they experienced before. He also emphasised the fact that they are in good relations with Zimbabwe and when he sees someone who comes from Zimbabwe; he takes all Zimbabweans as relatives because Cubans love Zimbabwe because of the respect that Zimbabweans have. He also indicated that no one should interfere with Zimbabwe and Cuba’s relations. They emphasised the fact that once you leave, you would have left forever and never to return because they know that when you return, you will not receive a hearty welcome from the country.
He also indicated that those who try to work as sellouts do not normally succeed because of the teamwork that prevails in Cuba. They value everything that they have as a country and do not want any interference from other countries. I also admired the way that they value their liberation struggle and it is one thing that makes them to have the courage to work for their country and valuing everything that they have.
Hon. Madam President, as leader of the delegation, also spoke highly of Zimbabwe and expressed great pleasure in existing relations between Cuba and Zimbabwe. She also indicated the fact that Cuba and Zimbabwe have good relations and she believes that nothing will come in between because the two countries share their liberation struggle experiences. She also indicated the fact that one of the Hon. Senators in the delegation once travelled to Cuba during the war of liberation and learnt a lot. She emphasised the fact that we could learn from Cuba so that we work as a team and nation. As much as we are under sanctions, team work will make us get to greater heights. Yes we can differ in views but we work as Zimbabweans and as one team. We also took note that their Parliament only sits once per year. It is unlike us in Zimbabwe whereby we come to Parliament every week. They also have Committee system as well. They table reports in different Committees. In my view, I think that is why they are working as a team. It discourages the issue
of having salaries. Maybe that is why there are so many sell-outs in
Zimbabwe – it might be because of too many sittings that we are having.
In Cuba when they sit, they come and discuss important things and it is in rare cases whereby you can have someone who will try to be a sell out. I like the hospitality that we got and most of them value their traditions as well and the way they do their traditional herbs. The places they prepare their herbs are clean and nice. They are able to prepare their herbs in a good way. You will realise that most of the doctors that are from Cuba, when they come to Zimbabwe, they are good doctors. Maybe it is because of the way they value their traditions and their culture.
The Bible even says that the leadership that we have is appointed by God. Maybe that is why the people from Cube respect all the leadership that they have. I also want to thank the opportunity that I was given to accompany the Hon. Madam President of Senate to Cuba. I did not know that one day I would set my foot in Cuba.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: I would like to thank the Committee
for the report that they have given us. Mr. President, the report tells us of a wonderful economy and social story of Cuba. Cuba has been a friend of this country from days of the liberation struggle. The question is, why do we not copy our friend? We have been told of the wonderful economic infrastructure and development of Cuba in the face of adversities. We have been told about the wonderful healthcare infrastructure in Cuba. Infact, Cuba is exporting manpower and earning foreign currency from its manpower.
It has eradicated diseases that the Hon. Member talked about.
These include hepatitis B, malaria and so on. As the Chairman said, Cuba is under embargo and he correctly said that the embargo is more drastic than sanctions and yet under these sanctions or economic embargoes, Cuba has done well. The question is why can we not do that as well?
Let me just draw the attention of this House to the Smith Regime under sanctions. We all know that Government was under United Nations sanctions. In other words, it was not under targeted sanctions that operate in Zimbabwe. In other words, it was under worse economic sanctions than Zimbabwe and yet the Rhodesian economy improved. The Rhodesian manufacturing sector improved. Under the sanctions, they started doing value addition. This is the same country that we are ruling. They started doing import substitution.
My brothers here including Hon. Sen. Sekeramayi were the young men those days and they will testify that we had cigarettes called Peter Stuyvesant, Star and so on. As the sanctions were imposed, Rhodesia started manufacturing its own cigarettes. That is why we had Madison, Kingsgate and Everest. In other words, the point I am making is why have other countries or even the same country performed economically better under sanctions than we are doing now? It may be that the fault may not be in our stars dear Brutus but in ourselves. What is it that the Cubans has done that we are failing to do in the face of the same adversity? It is this thing Mr. President that must force us to put our thinking caps on. If Smith who was fighting a war which was costing him one million pounds a day – the liberations war that some of our Hon. Members were so brave to fight in; that war was costing his Government one million pounds a day but his Rhodesian dollar was above the United States Dollar. What is it that they were doing that we are not doing today?
When the wonderful story of Cuba was being told, there are a few things that we must learn. The first one is that it provides us an excellent case study in leadership. Never mind the political system there; the political system there was a communist dictatorship and we may not really muddle that system but it had a disciplined leadership. They were financially disciplined. They did not steal from their people, they did not have corruption which was so rampant and there was no state capture in Cuba. These are some of the things that we must learn. As long as there is state capture, prevalence of cartels in a country and as long as other people have more access to economic resources than others, a country will not develop.
Fortunately, Cuba was able to be very disciplined even though it was a dictatorship. It was a dictatorship with a disciplined dictator. If you have a disciplined dictator who makes sure that his Constitution is followed, looks at the best interest of his people and develops his man and women then that land may develop. We do not hear after the Cuban revolution of anything equal to Gukurahundi. We do not hear after the Cuban revolution anything similar to Murambatsvina or the 2008 election violence. We do not hear that. We do not hear of a Cuba in ruin or at war with its own people. We do not hear of that yet in this country we have an undeclared civil war against our own people and here Mr. President, we need to change our ways. Tinofanira kuchinja maitiro edu.
Just as an example, this Government promised our people that they were going to abide by the recommendations of the Mohlante
Commission. One of the recommendations of the Mohlante Commission was that the Government compensates the victims of the six families who were affected by the August 1, 2018 shootings. Up to now Mr.
President, no single cent has been paid to those families.
We can talk about what other countries’ attitude towards us is but what is our attitude towards our own people? Do we give our own people the justice they deserve? The Mohlante Commission said those people, the victims deserved justice. They were supposed to be compensated. Their children were supposed to be sent to school by our Government and our Government accepted that responsibility and undertook to help these families but two years have gone and nothing has been done.
The sorry way in which we treat ourselves brings us bad omen. This is a real case study of what a responsible Government can achieve even in the face of sanctions. I am sure when the Cubans talk about the United States embargo – they were affected and their sugar exports were affected, but they traded with those countries who did not impose sanctions. Why are we not trading with those countries that have not given us any sanctions? For example, why are we not favourably trading with China?
Zimbabwe is a big supermarket of Chinese goods, and South
Africa is not exporting anything. I think we must look at ourselves with black pride. We are an intelligent people, gifted people and we have mineral resources. Mr. President, in you I see an example of bravery that is in Zimbabwe’s people. These talented people, this talented nation, why is it in a sorry state? Is it that Cubans think better than us? Is it that Smith and his Government thought better than our Government or we are capable of thinking better than our Government? They are whatever it is Mr. President. There is something wrong with the way we are running our country and the Cuban story bears testimony to that. Thank you very much Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to say a few words as I am one of the delegates that went to Cuba on a bilateral visit. We learnt a lot and a lot has been said by Dr. Parirenyatwa. The other thing that I learnt when we went to their Public Centre is that we saw the whole data for this country for every province and the population. They said Zimbabweans say you are 14 million but you are16 million.
This shows that they have better data than what we have. We learnt a lot because of this bilateral visit. I would like to thank Parliament of Zimbabwe which made such arrangements for us to go and see what others do in their countries. Cuba has invested so much in health. They gave us a report to say their doctors who were deployed in different countries all over the world bring $7 billion per year in their country.
This is why this embargo that we are facing did not disturb them much.
The other thing that I learnt in Cuba is that Cubans like their country and are united. They speak one language in terms of defending their country. This embargo has disturbed the movement of fuel because most of their fuel comes from Venezuela. They used to get 70% of the fuel from Venezuela but now because of the sanctions which were imposed upon Venezuela it means this will disturb the movement of cars in Cuba.
The report talked about tourism and it is full of hotels. We went to Valdero Hotel and we saw a lot. Even though their neighbouring countries do not want people to visit Cuba, many people still go there. They go as individuals and they do some businesses but they also go and visit places of interest in that country. If Cuba had been using electricity as we do here in Zimbabwe, the country should not have been where it is right now but they use solar energy which makes their country have power all the time.
As women, we also went to the Women’s Federation and we asked as to which law they use in their country – party Constitution or national Constitution. They said they have one Constitution which is the national Constitution. So they have four million followers in that federation and our report is saying in Cuba, women are in different positions and they follow their Constitution to empower women. If you see the Speaker of Parliament in Cuba, if he enters this august House of ours, you will think that he is Zimbabwean.
When he saw us, he thought of slavery which happened in their country. Cuba respects the liberation war heroes. They showed us a woman General who is still alive and who went to war together with Fidel Castro. She is still there and is working in her country Cuba. We were also shown pictures of some people from Africa who were killed because of slave trade. You would see different people who fought in the war with their names which shows that documentation is very important in each and every country. We did not do that even in our Chimurenga liberation struggle, but Cuba has it and I think in the report it was also mentioned. The last thing which Fidel Castro did before he died, the gloves that he was given by the President of Venezuela, it is part of history and all the young people grow up knowing history. We had a revelation that we should come up with such things as Zimbabwe so that we will be on the map as Zimbabwe.
Our embassy was in trouble because rentals had not been paid, so they were given eviction orders. Madam President was very angry because of the situation, otherwise we should have gone there in the absence of the embassy. The embassies in Cuba pay four thousand per month but our ambassador, His Excellency Muzenda said that the Cubans told us that we are friends but we are under sanctions. They said they rely on these rentals, so if they chase us away what will they do. Their moral was very low because they said if you are saved with an eviction order, where would you go? Madam President had to intervene and we just plead with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to look into the situation of our embassies. With these few words, I want to thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Mr. President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that Order of
the Day No. 7 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND
HEALTH FINANCING IN AFRICA
Nineth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and health financing in Africa held in Brazzaville, Congo from 11th to 12th July, 2019.
Question against proposed.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON.
SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Two
Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PARKING OF VEHICLES
THE HON. SPEAKER: There are Hon. Members who when
advised by police on duty to proceed and park along the fence on Kwame Nkrumah Avenue so that they do not park behind other vehicle that already parked facing this building, they do not do so. I am therefore advising the Hon. Members that the police are now under my instruction that any Member who refuses to do as directed by the police will have their vehicle clamped and toured away. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
EXTENSION OF TIME FOR THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE
TO INVESTIGATE THE ALLEGED ACTS OF MISCONDUCT BY
MDC-A MPS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the Privileges Committee currently inquiring into the alleged acts of misconduct by the MDC-A Members of Parliament has requested an extension of time assigned to conclude investigations and this has been granted. The Committee is now expected to report its findings and recommendations on the 14th of May 2020.
SUBMISSION OF BIOGRAPHIES
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that the Public Relations Department is appealing to all Members of Parliament who have not yet submitted their biographies to do so. These should be submitted to the Director Public Relations Rdt. Major Mbewe in Office
Number 312, Third Floor, Parliament Building, extension 2240 or to Mr.
Nyamuramba in Office Number 4, Third Floor, South Wing whose extension is 2143 or 2310 or to Ms. C. Mpofu-Muvhami, Office Number 520, Fifth Floor, Pax House, South Wing, extension 2007.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I have a point of
clarification. My point of clarification arises from your earlier announcement on parking instructions. You would recognise that - if you have been to the parking bay, the majority of parking lots around the rear end of our parking lot are occupied by vehicles that are broken down and are parked for the purposes of garaging and that is then limiting space for Hon. Members to be able to park. Can that area be cleared?
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is not a point of clarification. It is a point of recommendation. Very much noted and appreciated.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege to bring to your attention that our rights as Members of Parliament are being affected by the continued unavailability of water especially in urban areas. I recall as you also might recall that last
year…
THE HON. SPEAKER: In urban areas?
HON. HAMAUSWA: Yes, like in Harare where we have
continued unavailability of water and this is affecting our effective representation of the people because we have to go round fetching water. The issue that I want to bring to your attention Hon. Speaker is that the Minister of Local Government has not yet approved the budget by City of Harare. This has also affected the ability of City of Harare to offer service delivery because they are using a budget that was prepared in 2018 when the rate was 1:1. Lastly Mr. Speaker Sir, last year we agreed that the Minister…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I sympathise with the Hon. Member. That question should be directed tomorrow during question time and the water situation does not affect the Members of Parliament per se but the communities in the concerned areas. So raise it tomorrow during Question Time.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Hon. Speaker, I am not challenging your
judgment but last year we instructed the Minister responsible for water
to Minister bring a Ministerial Statement. You gave us assurance in
October Hon. Speaker that the Minister was going to give a Ministerial Statement and in October we were saying because of the prediction that in 2020 the country is going to receive normal to below normal rainfall, what were the measures the Government was putting in place to avert water crisis. You agreed to that in this House but to date the Ministerial Statement was not given. We are saying can the Government employ technology based strategies like water harvesting such that the little water that we receive we harvest the water. We also expedite dam …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Member looking at me – [AN HON. MEMBER: Hamauswa] – No, no, the young man – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order! Hon. Hamauswa, your point of privilege should simply have been a reminder of that Ministerial Statement and then what you discussed will then arise during the debate of that Ministerial Statement – [HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker.] – Order, I have not finished. In our Shona language we say sometimes kukwira gomo hupoterera, handiti.
HON. NDUNA: I rise on a point of privilege Mr. Speaker. Times without number we have debated the issue of registration of children Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of birth certificates and identity cards. Why I bring out this point - if you indulge me Mr. Speaker, if the Minister can come in and give a Ministerial Statement so that the issue of moratorium registration of kids …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, please sit down. I repeat points of privilege must affect the privileges – Hon. Tsunga, are you with me?
Matters of privilege must relate directly to your privileges please.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise on a
point of privilege. We were given these tablets but they do not have sim card slots. How does Parliament expect us to …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. You were not here
and you must read the Hansard. I said last time if you have got any issues about the use of tablets go and see our ICT Department.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Please, can you allow me to finish.
They do not have …
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am aware of that – [HON.
CHINYANGANI: Allow me to finish because you do not know what I want to say.] – Order, order! All matters relating to the use of tablets refer them to ICT and they will tell you what we agreed with your Chief Whips and what needs to be done. I refer you there and you will get the answer from there.
+HON. MAHLANGU: I still remember last week when we
discussed on the issue about the examination fees. We overlooked to look at fee for practical subjects and we would like that to be reexamined Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That has nothing to do with your privileges. Hon. Chinyanganya, we agreed as a Committee on Standing Rules and Orders and your Hon. Chief Whips were supposed to advise you on how to get around the issue of even Wi-Fi and what not and how that problem can be solved. Go to ICT and you will get the answer. If your Chief Whips did not tell you, ask them.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE ON ALLEGATIONS OF CORRUPTION RAISED AGAINST HON. T. MLISWA, HON.
CHIKOMBA, HON. NDEBELE AND HON. P.D. SIBANDA
First order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the
Privileges Committee on allegations of soliciting for a bribe against Hon. Mliswa and other three Members.
Question again proposed.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of Standing Order No. 111, every Member against whom any charge has been made and whose conduct is under debate, having been heard in his or her place, must withdraw while such charge is under debate and must take no further part in the proceedings. Therefore, I request the affected members to leave the House to allow for debate on the matter. May the Hon.
Members leave the House.
HON. T. MLISWA: Just a point of clarification, can we now go home.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just go somewhere around.
The Hon. Members left the House.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker, I rise to defend or to support the esteemed concerned three Hon. Members. Mr. Speaker, you will be aware that the charges that were levied against the particular three…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it three Members or four Members?
HON. BITI: Particular four Members were of a criminal nature Mr. Speaker Sir. They basically related to alleged corrupt activities in respect of which they were alleged to have solicitated for a bribe from a gentleman by the name Mr. Goddard during the process of executing their parliamentary work as Members of the Mines Parliamentary Portfolio Committee. Mr. Speaker Sir, this House does not condone corruption and this House as I am talking to you right now, has many committees that are investigating issues of corruption that are arresting and suffocating our country. I refer in particular Mr. Speaker Sir, to the investigations that are taking place before the Agricultural Committee chaired by Hon. Wadyajena and other committees including the Public Accounts Committee. So we say no to corruption. Mr. Speaker Sir, where an allegation of corruption is made, it has a stigma that arrests the accused person, the concerned person. That stigma sometimes is hard to wash away and where an allegation of corruption is made against a Member of Parliament or any other person for that matter Mr. Speaker, there must be high standards of scrutiny and a high standard of honour vis-à-vis the proof of the allegation. The standard of proof is not proof on a balance of probabilities. It is proof beyond reasonable doubt even though the enquiry is a disciplinary enquiry.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when you read the report of the esteemed chairperson of the Privileges Committee Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira, the report with great respect is full of circumstantial evidence, is full of speculative innuendos and is full of unjustifiable assumption. The fundamental assumption being made there is that once an Hon. Member of Parliament is in touch with a member of the public, then there is a corrupt intention or a corrupt motive but surely Mr. Speaker, that cannot be correct. We are elected Members of Parliament and our duty is to engage. The one fundamental thing that rings in that report is the unstated premise that any contact with an outside and external member can only be for corrupt purposes. That surely Mr. Speaker is not correct. It is not a correct inference at all, more- so when the report itself accepts that the only incriminating discussion was a discussion around the request of money made by one of the Members, Hon. Chikomba. It turned out that there was irrefutable evidence that in fact, Hon. Chikomba was owed money by one of the gentlemen that was in the company of Mr. Goddard.
Mr. Speaker, I want to submit that although you consider that there was prima facie proof hence the reason why you ordered the commission. When you read the report of Chief Charumbira, it is clear that the case was extremely frivolous, the case was extremely vexatious, the case has no substance and must be dismissed with the contempt it deserves. I therefore urge this House Mr. Speaker Sir, to uphold the finding of not guilty on the main charge and then acquit the Members on the alternative charge. The motion as it was put did not have an alternative charge. Therefore, it was incompetent for the Privileges Committee to convict the Hon. Members on an alternative charge that was not put to the accused persons for lack of a better word. Mr.
Speaker, you will be aware that one of the founding principles of our Constitution is the right to a fair trial or a fair public hearing as codified in terms of Section 68 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. A right to a fair disciplinary hearing requires that a proper charge is put to an accused person which he can answer to. The accused persons answer to a charge of corruption. The Committee said they were not guilty. That should be the end of the matter. The Committee cannot, through the back door, try to panel beat a non-existent matter with great respect Sir.
I conclude Mr. Speaker by appealing to all Members of the House on both sides to acquit the four gentlemen on the alternative charge. I thank you very much Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. In debating the motion that speaks to and about the Disciplinary Committee that was set up for the Members of Parliament I want to put it on record that the other protagonist that I am talking about is Hon. Temba Mliswa Mr. Speaker Sir, whose relationship with this Hon. Member is quite open for all to see and is quite acrimonious to say the least. However, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to stand here on this platform and seek that he and the other three Hon. Members be acquitted because of lack of evidence that incriminates and points them to the said crime.
I say this for two reasons Mr. Speaker Sir. The crime according to the report that has been produced does not have the qualities of being a committee meeting. It is known Mr. Speaker Sir that when Members conduct a Portfolio Committee meeting outside the precincts of Parliament, it is with your blessing Mr. Speaker Sir. None of that has been presented as evidence to show that you have actually given your blessings for the Committee on Mines and Mining Development to carry out their business outside Parliament. So, that kangaroo meeting or that meeting of Hon. Members cannot be said that it was a committee meeting because it had its Chairman of the Mines and Mining
Development Committee, Hon. Temba Mliswa embedded in it Mr.
Speaker Sir. It was outside Parliament so it cannot be said that it was a committee meeting because it does not have the first quality that you were supposed to adjudicate on in terms of giving assent or permission for them to carry out Parliamentary business outside the precincts of Parliament. This is because in so doing, you are also taking charge or you are looking at issues to do with security.
I say this because I am alive to the public hearings that we carry out which you give authority to Mr. Speaker Sir and we are always as Members of Parliament outside the precincts of Parliament, we are always guided in our operations. This is the first issue that I want to bring to the fore.
The Second one Mr. Speaker Sir, just the meeting of Hon.
Members because they come from one common committee outside
Parliament does not make it constitute a Parliamentary committee. It is my fervent view Mr. Speaker Sir that the write up or the report misdirected itself in hoping and thinking that the Hon. Members’ caucus outside Parliament constituted a committee of Parliament, so if the crime was centred on that matrix, it falls face first Mr. Speaker Sir. Just on that one, it fails its credibility and litmus test. I ask that it continues to fail on that.
Hon. Temba Mliswa, Member of Parliament for Norton
Constituency is actually sitting on a $10 million dollar lawsuit by yours truly Mr. Speaker Sir. I will not stand here and castigate him on an issue that he is not guilty on. I would want the courts to adjudicate on his credibility if there is a case to answer. On the case before you or on the report before this House, I request Mr. Speaker Sir that this report as it relates to criminalise Hon. Temba Mliswa and the others be dismissed and that they find favour in the eyes of this House in that they are not guilty of a crime that has been tabulated and pointed to in that report.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I ask that irrespective of any acrimonious relationship that any members of this House has with any of the Members that have been incriminated that they find the wheels of justice and the probability and the weight of the evidence and substance that has been presented that these Honourable Members are not guilty. Also because of that substance and evidence to also justifiably not find Hon. Temba Mliswa and the other three guilty of an offence they did not commit, otherwise we are setting a bad precedence. We are all going to be found guilty of offences that we have not committed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to applaud you for principles of natural justice. You have given Hon. Members time to respond to the allegations and that is a principle of natural justice. If that can also be afforded to all Hon. Members of Parliament because we are all creatures of the Constitution. Although we are Hon. Members of Parliament, we are also supposed to uphold the dictates, ethos and values of the Constitution and align ourselves to the same Mr. Speaker Sir. I hope that my submissions are going to be taken seriously and these Members are not going to be found guilty, lest we fall by the same sword.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to vociferously, effectively and efficiently ventilate the issues embedded in this report. I thank you.
HON. SIKHALA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. It is sad that Parliament today is made to discuss issues that did not exist at all. My first point of query Mr. Speaker Sir, is that Parliament as an institution is looked upon to uphold the rule of law, constitutionalism and its oversight role on other issues. Mr. Speaker Sir, the allegations that are being debated here originated from a newspaper report which in essence and as we all understand that at law, we should not be able to charge persons on the basis of third party information that has been provided with anti-evidence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the whole Parliament of Zimbabwe went on an errand to chase a wild goose on the basis of a Herald report. How many reports have been raised about Members of Parliament seated here today by different newspaper outlets for the whole Parliament to come and sit down and put in place a privileges committee to investigate individual Members of Parliament basing on rumours? Let me give you a practical example Mr. Speaker Sir and I do not think it will offend anyone. When the Deputy Secretary for youths in the ZANU PF political party, Mr.
Lewis Matutu had a press conference. He accused certain Members in this House, including you Mr. Speaker Sir, of involvement in corruption.
Should Parliament take the words announced at the ZANU PF
Headquarters for us to say we want to investigate them here – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We want to preserve the dignity and integrity of this institution. From today onwards, we must learn that, we must never base our operations as an institution of the State on hearsay and rumours that are being peddled outside this Parliament.
It was unfair, honestly Mr. Speaker, to be frank with you, to drag four Hon. Members of Parliament to this Committee. Their names have been severely damaged; they have been defamed on the bases of a lie. To quote from the report, Mr. Speaker Sir, it says; ‘the reports were brought by one Tundiya who was alleged to be a conman,’ to which the
Committee uphold that truly, he was a conman. So, for the whole
Parliament to expend resources on the allegations by a conman – [Laughter.] – Mr. Speaker, we are destroying the integrity of this
Parliament. This is a lesson for reference tomorrow. The precedent that this Parliament set on putting in place the Privileges Committee based on hearsay outside Parliament will bring chaos. I could come here and say Mr. Speaker Sir, I have received reports that when you were the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe (CAZ) Chairman, you gave tender to supply fuel to CAZ to your son and it is reported here in this newspaper that your son did not supply the fuel after being paid US$400 000. Will that be fair to your integrity Mr. Speaker Sir? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – when I base those allegations on newspaper reports, How many of us here have had allegations on a lot of things outside the parameters of our operations?
So, I want to condemn the Member of Parliament who moved this motion to vilify, causing the incarceration of other Members of
Parliament based on rumours. We have learnt a lesson, tomorrow Mr. Speaker Sir, we must not gallop everything that comes outside Parliament. That is my preliminary point I wanted to say Mr. Speaker
Sir.
Secondly, this issue must not be debated, it is very clear that there is no issue. The Committee itself were lucky that they got extra sitting allowances, lucky them; but they were really chasing a wild goose, which was not even necessary for this Parliament. For us to even plead for their acquittal, we are reducing ourselves into some stupid people who have been brought to this Parliament – [Laughter] – there is no reason for us to plead for their acquittal at all. There is no prima facie case against the four Members of Parliament, we must not debate it, we must just dismiss it as one evil wind that has passed through this
Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – we are wasting our time, these Members have nothing to answer and it has become a lesson to us. We must never base our accusations against Hon. Members of Parliament on hearsay evidence and on rumours. We must base our Privileges Committee on evidence. So, I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, that these Hon. Members have been absolved and it is agreed. You have heard the submissions by Hon. Nduna that honestly speaking, these things will make it difficult for Members of Parliament to execute their roles and duties. Let us dismiss this report with the contempt it deserves and it is not worthy for Hon. Members of Parliament to even debate it. Let us vote now and say that we have taken note of the report; the Members of Parliament have got nothing to answer, they are acquitted and have no case to answer. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. NYATHI: Mr. Speaker Sir, first of all, I want to thank you for setting up a Privileges Committee to look into the case of our four
Hon. Members of the Parliament of Zimbabwe. By simply setting up a Privileges Committee, it is a clear statement that this Parliament does not condone any form of corruption – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and for that, I am very happy. I have closely followed up the deliberations of this case and I also want to mention that this case leaves us a learning cue as Parliamentarians that, we must conduct ourselves honourably and reasonably and we must discharge our duties as Hon.
Members in a fair and proper manner at all times.
However, as I was going through the proceedings, I have realised that there is a member of the public called Shephered Tundiya who seems to be a person who does not have any honour at all and one who is well mentioned as a conman. As a result, this Parliament had to spend a lot of time deliberating on issues that I would personally say were not of any value. So, I think that this case had no facts that would bring out proof beyond reasonable doubt. I also want to concur with other Hon. Members that this case lacks any proper evidence and I think that it must be closed and thrown out of the window. I thank you.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir,
for allowing me to add my voice to this debate. I would like to remind the House that I am the one who raised the point of privilege and I did this after a headline appeared in one of the most read newspapers –
[HON. SIKHALA: But you are a lawyer, you base it on newspapers.] –
HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Sikhala, when you spoke,
nobody interrupted you. So, in all fairness, let us hear the other side.
Thank you.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir
for defending me but as a lawyer, I am used to this and I am not affected in any way. When the newspaper headline appeared, I received not less than 10 calls from different people asking the authenticity and some of them actually blaming Parliamentarians for being corrupt. I took a principled stance to protect the integrity of this House and that is the reason why I stood up and raised the point of privilege. I am so convinced Mr. Speaker Sir, that if in your wisdom, you had not seen a prima facie case in this matter, I am sure you would not have allowed the request for a Privileges Committee to be set up. So, the fact that you did shows that there was a prima facie case. Some of us are coming from a clean background and if such a headline was to appear again, I would still raise a point of privilege to protect the integrity of the House.
I thank you.
HON. K. PARADZA: I move that the privilege’s report be
dismissed.
HON. SIKHALA: I second.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Procedurally, the mover of the motion
has to come and conclude the matter; in this case it is the Hon. Sen.
Chief Charumbira.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move for the adjournment of the debate.
HON. K. PARADZA: I Second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tomorrow, Wednesday, 26th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that Orders of the Day, Number 2 to 11on today’s Order Paper be suspended until Order of the Day Number 12 has been disposed of.
HON. CHIKUKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LOCAL
GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL
HOUSING ON FACT FINDING VISIT TO CYCLONE IDAI
AFFECTED AREAS
HON. CHIKUKWA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing on Fact Finding visit to Cyclone Idai affected areas.
HON. MATEWU: I second.
HON. CHIKUKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
1.0 Introduction
1.1 The districts of Chimanimani and Chipinge were hit by Cyclone Idai which was characterised by violent winds and torrential rains resulting in loss of lives, livelihood and huge destruction of transport, communication and education infrastructure. Cyclone Idai has been described as one of the worst tropical cyclones on record to affect Africa. The storm caused severe carnage in Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Malawi - leaving many people dead, some missing and a lot of damage to property and infrastructure. Cyclone Idai has also been described as the deadliest tropical cyclone recorded in the South-West Indian Ocean basin. In Southern Hemisphere, Idai currently ranks as the second deadliest tropical cyclone on record since the 1973 Flores cyclone.
1.2 Following the Cyclone Idai disaster, the Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing resolved to conduct a fact finding visit to Cyclone Idai affected areas in Chimanimani and Chipinge. The object of the visit was to assess the impact of Cyclone Idai as well as the rehabilitation efforts being made. Thus as enshrined in the Standing Order and Rules No. 20, the Committee performed its oversight function by visiting the affected areas of Ngangu and Kopa in Chimanimani and Tanganda in Chipinge.
2.0 Objectives of the Visit
2.1 To assess the impact of Cyclone Idai in the affected areas.
2.2 To assess the preparedness of the Civil Protection Unit in dealing with the Cyclone Idai disaster and to find out plans in place to deal with a disaster of such magnitude in future.
2.3 To assess the extent of the damage and progress made in rehabilitation of infrastructure and find out challenges faced in rehabilitating the requisite infrastructure.
2.4 To find out the measures in place to relocate those who were affected to safer places.
3.0 Methodology
3.1 The Committee invited the Permanent Secretary for Local
Government, Public Works and National Housing, Mr. G.
Magosvongwe to a meeting to be briefed on the impact of Cyclone Idai and the measures in place to assist the Cyclone Idai victims. Following the meeting with the Permanent Secretary for Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, the Committee then visited affected areas in Chipinge and Chimanimani that is Ngangu, Kopa and Tanganda from
22 to 24 July 2019.
4.0 Committee’s Findings
4.1 The Permanent Secretary, Mr. Magosvongwe informed the Committee that the government was intensifying interventions on recovery, rehabilitation, reconstruction and resettlement in a bid to restore normalcy in the Cyclone Idai affected areas. He mentioned that after the temporary works that targeted emergency restoration of accessibility, water, sanitation, power, communication, health and shelter, all affected provinces had progressed into the planning and recovery phase. This phase sought to bring sustainable development and restoration of the damaged infrastructure.
4.2 Mr. Magosvongwe informed the Committee that traditional leaders from the affected areas were consulted by the government in order to incorporate their views and prioritise their needs in the restoration agenda. The meeting with the traditional leaders also outlined the challenges that were likely to be encountered during the recovery phase. He pointed out that the traditional leaders gave government a go ahead in its efforts to restore normalcy in affected communities and this includes the relocation exercise.
4.3 Mr. Magosvongwe reported that there were regular occurrences of earth tremors in the Beacon-hill area in Chipinge. A visit to the area by the Provincial Meteorological Officer proved that indeed there were tremors approximately every three days and the communities were leaving in persistent fear. Mr. Mashava, the District Development
Coordinator also reported the issue of tremors in Chipinge during the
Committee’s visit. The Committee was informed that the
Meteorological Department was carrying out an assessment to establish the cause of the unprecedented movement of the huge rock boulders deposited at various points in Ngangu and Kopa.
4.4 The Committee was further informed by Mr. Magosvongwe that schools experienced severe damage to infrastructure and educational material. This resulted in the closure of 33 primary schools and 10 secondary schools in Chimanimani District. A total of 139 schools were affected with varying degrees of damages and disruption to the wellbeing of an estimated 90 847 learners. The cost of the damages was estimated at US$5 million.
4.5 The Permanent Secretary further explained that plans were in place to relocate the internally displaced persons (IDPs) to safer and habitable areas. Mr. Magosvongwe emphasised the need for private sector and development partners to assist with resources. The
Committee was informed that Econet Wireless had pledged to build 500 houses for the Cyclone Idai victims.
4.6 On the rehabilitation of roads and bridges, Mr. Magosvongwe informed the Committee that over 95% of the major roads were accessible except Vimba Primary School, Vimba shops, Cashel-Chikukwa, Chimanimani-Tilbury, Chimhenga-Mutambara, Merry Waters, Paidamoyo-Rusitu Valley School roads. However, accessibility to most communities, schools and clinics was restored as a result of support from the Department of Roads, District Development
Fund, Bitumen World, Econet, Green Fuel and Masimba Construction.
He noted that a total 584 km of roads were damaged in Chipinge and Chimanimani and a minimum of $59.7 million was required to rehabilitate the roads. He emphasised the need for government and other private partners to release more funds and resources before the rain season starts to enable rehabilitation of infrastructure.
4.7 Mr. Magosvongwe reported that a total of 12 health facilities from Chipinge and Chimanimani districts were partially damaged (7 in Chimanimani and 5 in Chipinge). The damages caused to health institutions were estimated at US$46 900. The Committee was informed that the disaster indicated that there were some serious gaps in terms of health facility accessibility and availability in Chimanimani and Chipinge Districts.
4.8 It was explained by Mr. Magosvongwe that Cyclone Idai destroyed water, sanitation and hygiene infrastructure thereby increasing communities’ risk to water-borne related diseases. Most communities rely on springs for their water supplies and most of these springs were damaged leaving the communities resorting to unprotected water sources. Schools and rural clinics had their sources of water destroyed as well and US$12.7 million was needed to replace seventeen pumps that were damaged.
4.9 Pertaining to agriculture, the Committee was informed that the assessments conducted revealed that more than 50% of land under maize crop, banana plantation and tubers was wiped away. It was also submitted that a total of eighteen major irrigation schemes were affected and an estimated cost of US$8 655 000 was needed for rehabilitation. A significant number of livestock were lost and about 86 dipping facilities were damaged. Due to the disruption in the agriculture sector and community livelihoods in general, the food and nutrition security was equally affected.
4.10 The agriculture plantations, horticulture facilities, timber industries, mining areas, and retail sectors were also destroyed by the Cyclone Idai. This has greatly militated against localised economic growth. The cumulative loss in the industrial sector alone was estimated at $11 million.
4.11 The heard that at least 300 electric poles were damaged or destroyed. This greatly affected economic activities including business operations, mobile money transfers and other businesses that require electricity. Furthermore, independent power producers which used to feed electricity into the main grid had their infrastructure severely damaged.
4.12 Telecommunications sector also experienced losses to the tune of US$2 million as a result of network disruptions due to power failure.
4.13 Mr. Magosvongwe applauded the response by individuals, corporates and development partners to the appeal for donations and provision of psychosocial support in Manicaland. He emphasised the need for an integrated and coordinated distribution of the donations for the smooth operations of 8 UN Agencies, about 60 Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and the Red Cross. He appealed for more assistance with food and non-food items for the affected households in all affected Districts.
4.14 The Committee was informed by the Permanent Secretary that a total of nine cases were under investigation for allegations of abusing donations for Cyclone Idai victims. The Committee heard that five cases went through the courts resulting in four convictions and one acquittal. Hearing dates had been set for the other three whilst the accused in the fourth case was still at large.
4.15 In terms of search and recovery, Mr. Magosvongwe informed the Committee that the second phase of the excavations of the sites identified by cadaver dogs from South Africa was concluded at Kopa on 26 May 2019. No human remains were identified at nine out of ten sites spotted by sniffer dogs. The excavator was unable to reach one of the sites due to the presence of huge boulders.
4.16 Following the oral evidence presented by the Permanent Secretary, the Committee conducted a fact finding visit to the areas that were affected by Cyclone Idai in Chimanimani from 22 to 23 July 2019. The Committee visited Ngangu and Machongwe and held a meeting with the District Development Coordinator DDC (formerly District Administrator), Mr. J. Misi and other stakeholders such as the Health, Finance, Psycho-Social Services Officers, Chief Saurombe and some victims of Cyclone Idai. The meeting was held at the District Offices in Chimanimani. The DDC and the officers also had an opportunity to brief the committee on their experiences, the interventions as well as the progress made in addressing the adversities of Cyclone Idai. The Committee was taken aback and appalled by the horrific accounts presented by the officers and the victims.
4.17 The DDC reported to the Committee that the roads and bridges were severely damaged and needed urgent attention. He explained that some areas like Skyline were very dangerous for heavy vehicles and are very slippery when it rains. He emphasised the need for the rehabilitation of the roads and bridges before the rain season to allow access to Chimanimani. He thanked the development partners and government for the work done to the roads and bridges to make them traversable during the disaster.
4.18 The roads that needed urgent attention before the rain season included the Rusitu valley business link from Jopa to Christina (20 km) and the Kopa-Thabiso-Machongwe loop which needed resurfacing. He explained that the roads will be inaccessible during the rainy season. Other roads in the district also needed urgent gravelling. Most bridges were also destroyed during the cyclone. These include the Mhandarume, Muusha, Charter and Tiya Primary school bridges. The Committee had an opportunity to see the dilapidation of some of these bridges en route to Ngangu in Chimanimani.
4.19 On the electricity supply frontier, the DDC notified the Committee that there were areas that were still without electricity since the dissipation of the cyclone. These areas were in urgent need of transformers and these areas included Nhedziwa rural service centre which needed 5 transformers to support over 600 families.
4.20 In his presentation the DDC also informed the Committee that five emergency camps were established in Chimanimani District namely the Arboretum, Nyamatanda, Garikai, Kopa and Ndima Camps to cater for the Cyclone Idai victims who were left homeless. Arboretum was home to 58 households, while Nyamatanda held 30 households and Garikai held 83 households. The Kopa and Ndima
Secondary School camps catered for 58 and 8 households respectively. The Committee had the opportunity to visit and interact with the displaced people in the Arboretum camp. The camp, like in all other camps had a grave shortage of basic amenities such as ablution facilities and water supply. There were only two water points with 5 taps each and two x 10 000 litres water tanks. The Committee observed that there was lack of adequate security and outdoor lighting around the camp. The Committee also observed the undignified living setup, where parents and grown up children share one tent.
4.21 Concerns were also raised by the inhabitants on the frequency with which food was being distributed in the area which was said to be once a month. The DDC informed the Committee that during the disaster everyone received food but now that the emergency was over and they were in recovery phase, only affected people were receiving food hampers once a month. Mr. Misi explained that food distribution was from government and from private donors like Red Cross. There were other partners such as Non Governmental
Organisations and church based organisation that were active in the area and were providing humanitarian aid to the survivors. Sometimes beneficiaries get food from Red Cross and nothing from government because of challenges of fuel to bring the food from the warehouse. The Committee was informed that the district was getting a lot of support from partners in terms of food and blankets.
4.22 The DDC explained that there were cases where food relief was stolen at Silver Stream Warehouse because the security was inadequate. That warehouse had since been closed as it was an open area. The DDC office then moved the donations to a warehouse which can be locked and this has since reduced the incidences of theft. The DDC reassured the Committee that there will be no cases of theft or mismanagement of aid going forward.
4.23 The DDC complained that the intermittent supply of fuel had greatly militated against the Office’s ability to efficiently distribute food to all camps as per the schedule and also the other day to day operations of the DDC’s office. The greatest challenge that the office of the DDC was facing was to select those who are genuinely in need of food aid because many people who were not affected sneaked into the camps purporting to be victims of the disaster. The Committee was also informed that DDC had no vehicle. The district was using one vehicle which belongs to Civil Protection Unit. He complained that lack of a suitable and reliable vehicle had negatively affected the District Office’s operations.
4.25 The District Health Officer revealed, much to the dismay of the Committee, that the district had no District hospital and the injured were being treated at clinics or were transferred to Mutambara and Chipinge Hospitals. Furthermore, the mortuary in the District was designed to hold no more than 4 bodies, hence bodies were put in the hospital and in surrounding churches. At the peak of the disaster, some victims had to spend a night with dead bodies which was a traumatic experience. There was also an erratic supply of medicines for chronic illnesses such as BP and Diabetes and the demand for these medications had invariably increased since the disaster.
4.26 The Committee was pleased to hear that the government was very active and responsive during and after the disaster. Emergency rescue services were disbursed through the Zimbabwe National Army, the South African Army and other partners such as Econet Wireless.
Currently there were 29 partners operating in the area. The Ministry of
Local Government, Public Works and National Housing disbursed ZWL$700 000 as part of the devolution funds which were used for the provision of services. The DDC commented that the Council was however working on a shoe-string budget and was in need of more funds. The people who used to pay rates and fees were affected and the Chipinge Council had been left without any source of revenue. The DDC also thanked all the government departments that worked day and night during the disaster.
4.29 Schools were destroyed as well, one school lost 2 students. The Committee was also pleased to hear that schools in the district opened on time and those who were living in the schools that were destroyed were relocated to the camps.
4.30 Chief Saurombe and others who witnessed the disaster explained that the district had experienced some cyclones before but what happened during Cyclone Idai was different. They said warnings were given but because of the nature of the cyclone, it did not matter whether the houses were on a high level, low or level ground. The cyclone struck all the different levels. The people of Chimanimani were left wondering why such a disaster struck. The victims appealed to government to speed the process of rehabilitating roads and bridges and appealed to government to resurface the roads. They said the process of reconstruction was too slow, considering that it will soon be rainy season.
4.31 The Traditional leadership, in the area revealed to the
Committee that they had carried out peace-building and appeasement exercises in the district in a bid to ensure that there is no repeat of such event in future. The committee noted that the victims of Cyclone Idai and the people of Chimanimani in general were pleased with the work that the DDC was doing and the progress that the District made in mitigating the impact of Cyclone Idai.
4.32 The Committee wanted to know the resettlement plan for the displaced people and the DDC notified the Committee that there was a plan in place and an area had been identified where houses could be built. The Committee was informed that a layout plan was already in place but there might be challenges because some people have indicated that they did not want to be moved.
4.33 The victims appealed to the government to speed the process of declaring the missing persons dead to enable processing of some benefits from insurances and to process documents. Some families were appealing to government to facilitate the process of searching their relatives’ bodies in Mozambique so that they can give the deceased decent burial.
4.34 The Committee visited Kopa on the second day of the fact finding mission. The road to Kopa bore crystal clear testimony of what the Committee was to expect upon arrival at the final destination. The road and the rivers were filled with very large rock boulders. The mountain face showed evidence of apparent mudslides and collapse of debris. The Committee was briefed by the traditional leadership in Kopa and leadership of the victims of Cyclone Idai. The Committee heard very touching testimonies of those who survived. Some were narrating how they lost their loved ones.
4.35 The Committee had the opportunity to visit the site which was previously home to many people, particularly the civil servants as well as a sprouting township. All that remained of that township was dilapidation evidenced by a sea of rock debris and parts of the remains of the bridge that once towered above the area, the conduit between the township and the schools across the river. The Committee was told that 30 people were saved from the police post when a rope was thrown across the flooded river. Over 200 people died when the bridge which had held a large amount of water capitulated and the survivors lost their livelihoods.
4.36 Dzingire School in the area lost 52 students and 4 teachers.
Most of the people also lost their academic and personal credentials. The Committee was pleased to hear that the DDC was very active in the post-disaster phase, working flat out to ensure that the survivors received the help they required. The Committee was also pleased to hear that the government and other strategic partners were very responsive and provided health, food and accommodation services to those who were affected by the disaster. The Committee was also impressed by the progress made in resuscitating Ndima High School where water supply was restored, ablution facilities were rehabilitated and houses are in the process of being constructed.
4.37 A camp was established a few metres from the river, where families were given tents. The camp catered for 52 households. Of concern to the Committee, however, was that this camp lacked adequate basic amenities and outdoor lighting. As such there is need for urgent refurbishment of the camp.
4.38 The traditional leadership and the victims implored the government, through the Portfolio Committee, to speed the processing of death registration certificates as this was important in their healing process. The victims also asked for swift assistance to go to Mozambique to search for their bodies so that they are able to rebury their relatives. They also implored the government to institute measures that will allow them to replace their lost credentials such as birth registration certificates, national identity cards and passports.
4.39 The Committee visited Chipinge district on 24 July 2019.
The Committee learnt from Mr. Mashava, the District Development Coordinator that the violent cyclone destroyed electricity lines, transformers, roads, bridges and housing and health infrastructure as well as communication amenities. He informed the Committee that unlike in Chimanimani district, the district of Chipinge recorded seven deaths and multiple injuries. Five of these deaths were caused by drowning as the people tried to cross the flooded rivers and forty five people were recorded missing, most of these had visited relatives in Chimanimani.
4.40 Chipinge community relies on irrigation and the Cyclone Idai destroyed most of the irrigation infrastructure such as dams and weirs affecting the people of Chipinge their source of income. The dams include the Mwara, Dandon, Maradale and Mahemu dams and the Chidzadza, Maunganidze, Masocha and Musirizwi weirs. Dip tanks also collapsed. Thousands of people were affected along the Chipinge agriculture value chain.
4.41 On the Water, Sanitation and Hygiene (WASH) frontier, the Committee was told that potable water points in the district were either contaminated or washed away. In addition, the sanitation facilities, particularly for the wards along the Save Valley collapsed. This had worsened the already dire sanitation situation in the district. The Committee was pleased to learn that the district had started the process of assessing the water quality and had collected samples from 16 springs and boreholes. Findings revealed that only 4 sources of water were satisfactory while the other 12 had innumerable traces of e-coli bacteria. This has necessitated the need for on-site water treatment and this was being done through the distribution of the scarce aqua tablets.
4.42 The Committee also learnt that the education sector felt the brunt of the Cyclone Idai. Sanitation facilities in 77 schools collapsed and 21 schools no longer had access to safe, potable water. In addition, many Small to Medium Enterprises in the District were affected. SMEs in the agriculture, timber, dairy and retail sectors were affected the most.
This has had a negative bearing on the welfare of people in the district.
Assessments revealed that the SMEs needed an estimate of US$3 500 000 to recover from the Cyclone Idai. The district, through the DDC expressed their heartfelt gratitude to the Government for their responsiveness following the Cyclone. The government availed
ZWL$100 000 for emergency works. The funds were used to rehabilitate
South Down Road, Tamandai Business Centre, Nyamukunga Box
Culvert and the Dakate Causeway. The DDC expressed to the
Committee that fuel shortages have stagnated the operations of the District. The Committee was also shocked to learn that the people who were engaged in rehabilitation works have not been paid their allowances since the works started. Most of the people were using their own funds to travel to the rehabilitation sites and back. This had impacted negatively on the morale of the workers.
4.43 The Committee held a meeting with people of Chipinge at Simudza Primary School. Victims narrated how their experience during the disaster and how they were left homeless and without any means of supporting themselves. It was again a delicate and sympathetic moment to the Committee. The victims, especially widows appealed to the
Committee for assistance in terms of foods, clothes and reconstruction. They also complained that there was no progress in terms of rebuilding considering that the rain season will start soon. Some also appealed to government to proivde tents to stay claiming that they were not given.
5.0 Committee’s Observations
5.1 The Committee observed that there was limited resources allocated to the Civil Protection Unit towards disaster management. This gap therefore exacerbated the impact of Cyclone Idai in the affected areas.
5.2 The Committee observed that the road and transport infrastructure was dilapidated and this will affect movement on the onset of the 2019/2020 rainy season.
5.3 The Committee observed with dismay that people who were working tirelessly to restore services in the affected areas in Chipinge and Chimanimani had not been paid. This had affected their morale and willingness to work. Further, they were incapacitated to continue reporting for work.
5.5 The Committee observed that the rural and urban settlement plans had not been updated in line with the changing demographic and environmental variables.
5.6 The Committee observed that that some teachers at Dzimura School who were victims of the disaster were staying in tents and that such a situation undermined their status.
6.0 Committee’s Recommendations
6.1 Government should swiftly rehabilitate the transport infrastructure before the onset of the 2019/2020 rain season.
6.2 Government should swiftly avail funds for the remuneration of people who are working in the rehabilitation of infrastructure in Cyclone Idai affected areas by 31 December 2019.
6.3 There is need to revisit the rural and urban settlement planning to match the demands of the changing environmental variables by 31 December 2019.
6.4 There is need for the establishment of a ring-fenced disaster fund that will act as a buffer during times of crisis by 31 December
2019.
6.5 There is need to swiftly address the housing and water, sanitation and hygiene infrastructure backlog to prevent the onset of enteric infections by 30 November 2019.
6.6 Government should also speed up the process of declaring those missing person dead to enable processing of necessary paper work 31 December 2019.
6.7 The District Development Coordinators of Chimanimani and Chipinge should be allocated suitable vehicles that are proper for the terrain by 31 December 2019.
6.8 In the event that government fails to provide decent accommodation facilities for the victims of Cyclone Idai, there is need to improve the facilities at the camps such as ablution and lighting system by 30 November 2019
6.9 Government should provide agricultural inputs to the victims of Cyclone Idai under the Presidential scheme during the 2019/2020 agricultural season. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I have a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): What is
your point of order?
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of
order arises primarily from the nature of the motion on the Order Paper under discussion. Hon. Speaker, I want to bring it to your attention that the people of Zimbabwe expect us to be part of the solution as elected representatives. Cyclone Idai happened around March, 2019 and we are discussing this report around March, 2020; one year later. If you have listened to the recommendations, the majority of them have an expiry date of around December.
I want to implore the Business of the House Committee which comprises probably the Members of the Speaker’s Panel, Leaders of the Opposition and Leaders of Government for them to be able to shape the Order Paper so that at least Parliament responds in time to matters of national interest. Had this Committee been dispatched to areas affected by Cyclone Idai, which was very correct, they were supposed to go to the affected areas in time, come back to Parliament in time, report in time so that at least the Executive can act in time. Right now people are bedeviled with other natural phenomenon in Binga, Bulawayo and Chimanimani. Some of the bridges reported to be re-built have again been affected, so I want to bring this to the attention of the Business of the House Committee to be able to clean up the Order Paper so that at least we are seen to be responding in time. Tomorrow we are seen to be a Parliament discussing Cyclone Idai when we have other issues of emergency nature now. So, can you please direct the Business of the House Committee to act in time? Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon.
Chikwinya. Your advice and suggestion has been noted. Thank you very much indeed.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. First of all, I want to thank Hon. Chikukwa for such a concise report that really touched on the visit that we did in Chimanimani and Chipinge. Mr.
Speaker Sir, it is common cause that on 4th March, they started to notice that there were swelling winds which were just above Madagascar in the
Indian Ocean. It was clear Mr. Speaker Sir that by the 12th March,
Cyclone Idai had formed and in this country, we do have a
Meteorological Department. It was also clear Mr. Speaker Sir when Cyclone Idai developed into a fourth category hurricane and was heading towards Beira, to those who do geomorphology, the direction of the cyclone was egg shaped and somehow when it hit Beira, it was inevitable that it would actually hit Zimbabwe as well.
Now, the question Mr. Speaker Sir is that this was a predictable hurricane and it was also predictable on 14th March when it hit Beira that the next day it would hit us in the eastern highlands. To our surprise Mr. Speaker Sir, nothing was done to ensure the safety of those people who died in this hurricane.
In this country, 270 000 people were affected by Cyclone Idai, 51 000 of them were misplaced, 364 deaths were recorded and over 600 people went missing because of this cyclone. It was disheartening Mr. Speaker Sir when we visited a village in Kopa. There was a village there and the village was no longer in existence. The whole village had been wiped out. All you could see there were big borders of stones that have travelled from the mountains to that catchment place – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member. Hon.
Members, I do not think you would want to force me to use Section 109 to name you but if this is your choice, I will certainly go ahead. What I am asking you please, can the Hon. Member be heard in silence. May you lower your voices please?
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was saying, it was disheartening and heart breaking when we visited Kopa. There was a village there which had, I think around 293 homes or people who lived there but the sad thing was that all the homes but one had been destroyed by boulders which came from the mountains.
The horror stories which we heard on that day were so disheartening Mr. Speaker Sir. I spoke to a gentleman who was a businessman who said he had his car, shop, house, children and wife swept away by the river. There were so many stories like that which we heard on the day. This was just beside a school and you can imagine the school children who go to that school who lost some of their classmates and teachers, I think four teachers from that school were swept away.
So, Mr. Speaker, it is incumbent for the Government to ensure that there is preparedness in the event that such an occasion or a natural phenomenon ravages this country again. We call upon the Civil Protection Unit to be capacitated to deal with such issues. It was also sad to note that when we visited Chimanimani District Offices, the District Development Coordinator had a borrowed vehicle. For such an area which is prone to natural disasters because of its geographical location to have no vehicle at all from the Civil Protection Unit, was displeasing to say the least. They had to borrow cars in order to visit the affected areas.
One of the recommendations which was given Mr. Speaker Sir was; the rainy season is coming again, February/March. We know because of the geology and the climate that, this is the time in March and April when we have tropical cyclones forming over the Indian Ocean. However, to our surprise, even two weeks ago when heavy rains ravaged this country again, we noted that in Chimanimani, one of the bridges also collapsed. There is a tendency of not being serious Mr. Speaker Sir in terms of how we deal with natural disasters. We can see the same happening in Binga and Bulawayo. God help us if we are to have another Cyclone like Cyclone Idai taking place.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in conclusion, I want to say that we need the
Government and the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to be better prepared and hire experts, giving enough resources not just when these things happen but also before they happen so that when it happens, we will be absolutely prepared to deal with the aftermarth. The early warning systems are given in all the towns and villages so that there is time to relocate all the people and their livelihoods. When Cyclone Idai formed on the 4th of March and by the time it hit on the 14th of March, if maybe on the 11th, when we had seen that this is a strong cyclone heading towards the mainland Beira, we should have relocated all these people. We should not have had the deaths and people missing whom we are reporting of today Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you very much.
HON. NYATHI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to contribute something as a Member of the Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. However, before I comment, I want to appreciate and thank all other Portfolio Committees from this august House which took their time to visit the disaster stricken areas in Manicaland. I also want to thank other related Ministries which also had an opportunity to go there to put their heads together and make sure that the situation in Manicaland is restored to normalcy.
Of note, I also want to thank the Ministry of Transport and
Infrastructural Development and the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services. I was listening to the television and radio and information was passed on to almost every corner of Manicaland and
Zimbabwe. However, like what happened in the olden times, even in the time of Noah when it was announced that there was going to be rain, everyone never took it serious and they were relaxed. This is the same situation that occurred in Manicaland. However, I also want to thank all Zimbabweans who contributed in cash or kind to make sure that the situation in Manicaland was catered for. I also want to thank our regional friends and our all-weather friends who sent some assistance to Zimbabwe so that our situation in Manicaland and in this disaster stricken area could be alleviated.
However, I have a few recommendations which I want to proffer in terms of our preparedness or the Civil Protection Unit. May there be all weather helicopter; may they be purchased so that whenever we have disasters of this magnitude, there will be assistance given to casualities who will be affected in those areas. Secondly, I also want to recommend that, there should be an emergency preparedness unit which is specially trained for such types of eventualities. I wish to also recommend that may the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development set aside special funds to equip the Civil Protection Unit. I have also realised that these disasters are not a onetime event but they are going to be with us for a long time.
So, there is need for us to also give a special training for emergency units that are specialised in construction of bridges so that whenever our bridges break, or are swept away we will be able to move by road to access the disaster stricken areas. Whenever, there is need, we can then use an all weather helicopters to get to those who will be affected. There is therefore need for the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to make sure that the Civil Protection Unit is given adequate funds in order for us as Zimbabweans to be well prepared in the event of any volatile weather which comes without warning for us to have been prepared for such situations as
Zimbabweans. Once we do that, then we save lives because one life lost means a lot to us as Zimbabweans. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: I just want to briefly add my voice to the report presented by the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Hon. Chikukwa and seconded by Hon. Matewu.
Hon. Speaker, this is our theatre of dreams and this is where we make laws for the good order and governance of the people of
Zimbabwe. It is only prudent and fair that whatever it is that we debate here, formulates those laws that we come here to make. Our roles as has been mentioned by Hon. Sikhala are three in one; legislative, representative and oversight. I say this with a heavy heart in that we learn from a lot of experiences that these Hon. Members in this august House have gone through individually and what the electorate out there in their constituencies have also gone through. I ask that we learn from what disasters have befallen the Members of Parliament and the electorate in their constituencies and build from that, use that as a pedestal and as a platform to enhance the preparedness and to enhance the laws that we make so that we can have safety nets and fall backs on issues such as the Cyclone Idai if they re-occur.
I want to digress a bit; when we talk of Road Traffic Accidents, these are also disasters and by their very nature, they are called accidents. When we speak about them vociferously and ventilate on issues that touch on this disaster, it is so that when there is a reoccurrence we are better prepared than before. However, when we come here, time without number and talk about these issues but when they reoccur, we are still ill prepared; it means we are playing tomfoolery games. So, my prayer is that whenever we talk of natural and un- natural disasters, it is so that we learn from them and we are better prepared in the future. The Bible says, “In the year King Uzziah died, I saw Lord”. Let us learn from the mistakes and disasters that occur. What happened to me for argument sake, when I was involved in a car accident and lost my two children, I would not want it to occur to anyone. So, when I come here and speak about road traffic accidents, their prohibition…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! May you concentrate
on Cyclone Idai and be brief.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for your guidance. Mr. Speaker, we
would not want any disasters, natural or unnatural to befall anybody after it has been unmasked. The accident that I am talking about named
Cyclone Idai is like a nightmare in 4D or 5D that has hit this nation. It is my view that if it is well ventilated, spoken about, safety nets are put and guidelines for future to avert reoccurrence in the future. As an august House we can influence the Executive in a certain path, direction, mission and trajectory so that we can save lives using these natural disasters that have occurred ahead of time.
Therefore, my clarion call is that when ever these natural disasters occur in the future we use the following items debated here today so that we have safety nets in that future. The issue of climate change, our remittances to the world governing body, to the UN. Those remittances in the global community should be used to bolster our preparedness. The issue of climate change is real; this is what is bringing these natural disasters into our camp or our nation.
It is my view, hope and clarion call that if we can get some of that money in those coffers to buy equipment such as the one that has been mentioned by Hon. Nyathi; helicopters that are all weather, seeing that they are all dimensional and they can view in very extreme and difficult weather conditions in order that we extricate our people ahead of time before these natural disasters befalls them.
Secondly, the Civil Protection Unit, as we speak before the natural disaster Idai and including now, is ill-equipped. It is my hope and thinking that instead of only having that pittens come from the gold finger who is the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, we also augment and compliment the resources that go towards the CPU using our God given natural resources, gold in particular and our platinum also. We need to get some of our resources in terms of a percentage quantum that we are exporting to take care of the Civil Protection Unit in terms of capacitating it so that in the future we are not here debating the same issue about capacitation of CPU, DDC as has been mentioned in the manner that we are today. Let us learn from this natural disaster.
It is my thinking that if we come in together with the global community in order to avert, avoid and to completely annihilate the issues of global climate change. In fighting this scourge we can win, I have already spoken about ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth but as a global community we have much more than that. It is my thinking that the biggest powerhouses in the developed countries, the first one in United States and China; these developed nations are the greatest emitters of green house gases which are the major causes of climate change. It is my thinking that their contribution amalgamated with ours, put together can go a long way in saving lives. The global average of lives lost due to road carnage is three and ours here in Zimbabwe is five. I think for us to have more than five deaths per day due to these natural occurrences and disasters is unheard of. We should use what we have to get what we want, get what we can in order to save the lives that we come here to speak about and to speak for in terms of our representative
role.
The last issue Mr. Speaker Sir, if this natural disaster had occurred in this august House, we would have died in a few hours considering the number of people that are not yet accounted for. Let us speak as though we are speaking for ourselves. Let us love our neighbour as we love ourselves. Let us love the people of Ngangu as we love ourselves Mr. Speaker Sir. When we speak for the people that have been affected by this natural disaster let us speak as though we are speaking for our children. I ask that as we consider the lives that were lost, we should know it could have been us. We are 370 together with Senate, we lost more than 370 lives that have not yet been accounted for. Let us love these people like we love ourselves.
I want to applaud the efforts that have been put together by Hon. Sacco, he was from day 1 on the ball. If we can help him in his efforts and also as has been said and alluded to by Hon. Chikwinya, if we can expeditiously deal with such issues of national importance as and when they occur, this will do the nation good. The issue of declaring persons
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, may you wind up Hon. Member.
HON. NDUNA: As I wind up, I ask that there be declaration of these missing persons so that we can have closure to this issue. I also want to applaud the people of Chegutu West because they contributed meaningfully to help the people that had been affected by this natural disaster. I clap my hands for them including the artisanal miners.
*HON. CHIKUNI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me follow in the footsteps of the Committee and also come up with my own views. Mostly I want to say the Committee went to Chimanimani and Chipinge last year. A report is now being presented, several months down the line, in February, which means that some of the recommendations may turn out to be irrelevant. It is my plea that once a Committee has gone out, they should come back and table their report and the responsible
Ministers will be listening to the report and from the Committee’s recommendations, they come up with a programme of action.
I want to thank the Government for its intervention in Cyclone
Idai. This was observed by the Committee. I want to believe that the Committee had a lot of work during Cyclone Idai because it was also looking into the resettlement of the people, road construction and rehabilitation. I want to thank our Defence Forces for opening roads so that people can access the way to Chimanimani. The area had proved to be impassable.
Mr. Speaker, if we flash our minds back and go there today, it appears as if the disaster took place yesterday. The Committee did a sterling job, it should have been the first Committee to hit the ground running when such a disaster has occurred. If funds are available, the Committee should be empowered in terms of resources so that it can do its work. A lot of people perished as we heard from the report. Those that were listening are able to deduce that.
I would want to thank the Chimanimani Community, the Chiefs,
Village Heads, District Administrator, they did a commendable job. This was a disaster that needed people to act. Traditional leaders performed rituals and the Government also carried out its work. We would want to thank our President Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa who went up and down to that area. He visited all the districts that were affected by
Cyclone Idai – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Plenty of goods were sourced in Chimanimani, Chipinge and even in Masvingo. They were those who were stealing nevertheless majority of the people benefited.
We want to thank the inhabitants of that area that whenever there was a company that would be on the ground not doing its work, they would report the culprits and the culprits would lose the contracts. Companies that were delivering and deserving were then given the contracts to rehabilitate the roads. There are two companies in the area that are responsible for rehabilitating the roads in that area. What is not proper is that those people who are in temporary shelters should as of now resettled permanently. That is the major challenge that they are facing because the tents are not secure.
Mr. Speaker, some of the people that are there, are now a burden to the District Coordinating Committee because there are now artisanal miners or there are also people who want to take advantage of the situation to get stands when the resettlement process begins. It means that the Committee’s hands are full and it still has a challenge in ensuring that they come up with deserving and authentic beneficiaries.
We are in the rainy season, it means those people are not safe in those temporal shelters.
I want to thank the Government for the assistance that they gave to Charles Iwanga Institution where some children died. They were given new land to build their school. It is a vast piece of land, it should be able to build its own school. The people in that area are now being employed in road openings and so forth.
Lastly, I want to show my gratitude to the President for bringing more donors who are assisting in rebuilding the affected areas. This shows that the President is at the helm of activities happening on the ground. Thank you.
*HON. MPARIWA: I want to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Chikukwa and the whole Committee that went on the ground to assess the situation on behalf of Parliament. In our culture, if a disaster occurs and no one comes to support there is a lot of talk. We showed that we are the people’s representatives.
I would want to touch on three issues. Firstly, the Committee called the Civil Protection Unit which is responsible for looking into such disasters. We realise that from time to time that Committee is found wanting. It does not have adequate resources or its composition is not clear in cases where as Members of Parliament we want to make follow up with them or clarification. In most instances, they end up looking for helicopters all over because of lack of preparedness.
Mr. Speaker, disasters such as floods did not start with Cyclone Idai. If we are to ask the Hon. Members here present, most of them have taken funeral policies showing that we are aware that something might happen untimely. Why can we not as a country be prepared always for such occurrences? We also have the Taskforce Committee that is made up of different ministries. This committee and its composition should be well-known and their numbers should be made available.
Why did I stand up to contribute? In our African culture, when such a disaster occurs there should be a ritual that is carried out to make sure that the souls of the deceased rest in peace but we cannot do that if we do not know the numbers of the deceased and where exactly they are. I think that is an issue that we need to look at and I heard the recommendation that was made by the Committee which is in line with
that.
The third issue is that whenever there are such disasters, resources should be timeously mobilised and begging bowls quickly extended to well-wishers so that our discomfort is minimised. In the case of Cyclone Idai, the number of victims was unknown as well as the quantities of the donations that were made. It is important that there is transparency and accountability in the manner in which goods and clothes are distributed so that those uncouth elements that are amongst those who reap where they did not sow should not unjustly enrich themselves. These people are so immoral to the extent that they will even steal meat at a funeral wake. We advocate for transparency and accountability because these are important tenets of our African culture. There are rumours that there are certain known individuals who stole the goods that were meant for the disaster victims. These culprits should be tried before the courts of law and once found guilty should be given deterrent sentences. In fact, the courts should use these culprits as guinea pigs so that like-minded offenders will be deterred from committing such offences.
Lastly, there is the issue of publicity. We need to publicise our predicament so that we get support and assistance. I say so because if we do not account for the assistance that we will have received, in future our benefactors may not trust us and they will not lend us a helping hand. I say so being mindful of the floods that we are experiencing in Binga and such other areas. We still need the hand of well-wishers and donors which can only be extended if we conducted ourselves in a transparent and accountable manner. We have fresh disasters that are taking place in Binga which need our attention as Parliament. I say to those that perished in Cyclone Idai, may their souls rest in peace.
*HON. TOGAREPI: I also rise to raise my voice on Cyclone Idai. We lost a lot of our relatives and friends as well as a lot of our wealth. Our people’s standard of living was greatly affected. I am grateful for the relations that we enjoy with SADC countries and other countries such as China. I am grateful to our Government for maintaining such cordial or warm relationships. Our friends, especially our all weather friend China came to assist us once Cyclone Idai disaster had befallen us. Although the assistance cannot bring back our dear- departed relatives, it is consoling to note that the assistance went a long way in comforting our people. It helped our people to get help in the form of clothes and food provision, a demonstration that as a people we approached the disaster as one united family. This has taught us a lesson that should future problems affect us, we should remain united because disasters come when we list expect them. When we look back, we observe that there has been a long time without any disasters in
Chimanimani and Chipinge. We also urge organisations such as Red Cross and others to always be prepared to help the Zimbabwean people whenever a disaster strikes.
Lastly as Parliament, we should find ways in which we can express our gratitude to NGOs and all our friends who gave us a helping hand after the aftermath of Cyclone Idai so that our benefactors would know that we are an appreciative people that express gratitude for any assistance that is given to us. I thank you.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to take this opportunity to thank Hon. Chikukwa together with Members of the Committee for visiting my home area in Chimanimani to assess the situation. That alone Mr. Speaker is similar to the fact that when you encounter a challenge such as death and people come to pay their condolences with relatives and friends, you feel relieved knowing that there are people who care. So that gesture by the Committee made people feel that Parliament is seized with the matter and cares even though it was done rather late.
I urge Parliament that if such disasters happen in other areas, this Committee should be availed funding to visit the area in time so that people appreciate and welcome the help that may come. What I want to say Mr. Speaker, is on the issue of women. The value of a woman has been reduced. If you consider the way people are living in tents there is no privacy. Everyone requires some degree of privacy. When a person builds a home even if it is a thatched home and is able to wake up and prepare for her children she is content with what is available at that time but if we consider the situation in Chimanimani, the value and dignity of a woman has been reduced such that the pride of being a mother is lost.
The women sleep in the same tent with the children and the husband.
My request is that we try and assist to address the dignity of the woman. As we progress Mr. Speaker, we will end up with child marriages. The young girls in Chimanimani for those who come from the area now want to get into child marriages looking for a better way of life which they see as a solution. So my request Mr. Speaker Sir, to those providing relief services is that they come up with programmes that will protect the dignity of the girl child health services and education.
Mr. Speaker, the issue of poverty has increased. Before the disaster, yes they were in poverty but the level was better off than what it is now. They used to get things to sell such as chickens and other belongings but because of the disaster poverty has increased with nothing in terms of property. If it was possible, the Government would design programmes that can bring them cash so they can improve their livelihood. This would also ensure that they economically build themselves. Where someone had 10 cows if the Government gives one that one can bear more cows to build up family wealth. One cow can benefit a number of families as it will be passed on after bearing one or two cows in each household.
Another thing Mr. Speaker, people in the community used to receive counselling sessions as psycho social support but currently this is no longer available to all those who were disturbed by the disaster. I think that if there are other NGOs who may be listening to this debate they should reconsider going back to render relief services since others are failing to accept and deal with the trauma of losing loved ones.
Others lost all family members and relatives and need more counselling. It is my plea that such people continue to receive this psycho social support.
Another issue is on climate change which was mentioned in this
House and this is a global issue. The loss in vegetation through deforestation is contributing a lot. My request is that the Forestry
Commission should come up with a programme for Chimanimani which experienced Cyclone Idai. There is need for constant tree planting programmes in order to preserve our soil.
We heard the MP of Chimanimani East informing us that some of the food stuffs expired before it was distributed. When the Government avails such programmes, it should make follow ups to ensure that distribution is done above board and efficiently. If there are challenges they should be addressed. If there is no transport then it should be availed so that people have food to eat.
Mr. Speaker, I also want to talk about the issue of infrastructure. My expectations were that where bridges would be rebuilt, there was need to have materials that are recommended by professional engineers. This is because the issue of bridges is of concern. With the recent rains, some of those bridges have already been destroyed, for example at Biriri, the bridge we expected and thought would be sufficient has now been destroyed. It is probably because of the quality of material used or it is because of the heavy rains. My request is that professional engineers assess the reconstruction of these bridges to avoid spending money annually to repair the bridges.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker, I want to thank all those who assisted in offering relief services to the people of Chimanimani. Everyone needs to be appreciated for rendering the required service even a child needs to be appreciated. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, let me start by thanking the Chairperson of my Committee and the Hon. Members of that same
Committee. In English they always say that better late than never. Despite the fact that we went there late, we were able to visit the affected area. It is my considered view that in future whenever such disasters occur, this Committee should quickly be given funds so that it visits the affected area as quickly as possible. For instance, there are some floods that are occurring in Binga and yet the Committee has not visited Binga. It will be pointless for the Committee to visit Binga three to four months down the line or during the 2021rainy season because that would be an embarrassment to Parliament more- so when all the donors, well wishers and other people will have visited the affected area before this relevant Committee has carried out its oversight function – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – Madam may you keep quiet?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, may you
please address the Chair.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: May the Vice President of the
Opposition please allow me to debate in silence.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please lower
your voices.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I say that Parliament should timeoulsy dispatch its relevant committees to disaster areas because it would be embarrassing if these committees go on the ground a long time after the disaster would have occurred. It is akin to going to commiserate with the bereaved long after the deceased has been buried. This is unAfrican and unacceptable. Let me thank the South African Government for providing us with helicopters and their expert military engineers who constructed the access bridge at Kopa. Let me extend my gratitude to the South African Defence Forces and their Zimbabwean counterparts for a job well done.
Let me go further and suggest that our Zimbabwean Speaker of Parliament should write a letter expressing gratitude to his South African counterpart for the assistance that we received. It is important. It has already been expressed that we should thank other countries that come to our assistance. I am grateful to all.
His Excellency E. D. Mnangagwa did not choose who he wanted to support him. He was in Dubai. He was on a visit in Dubai but after the disaster, he returned back home. He abandoned his seven day visit.
Such a type of behaviour is commendable and it is appreciated – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. NDEBELE: He went to Dubai and what did he bring?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, may you
please address the Chair. Ignore them.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: May the Hon. Member withdraw his
statement. He said you went there and what did you bring. That is not befitting of the behaviour of an Hon. Member. He should behave like an Hon. Member. We are talking about people that died. He should not be saying such bad things. It is only the wizards and witches who say that, not a living Member of Parliament.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Hon. Member alleged to
have said you went there and what did you bring back, may you please withdraw that statement.
HON. NDEBELE: It is me Hon. Speaker. I said he went to Dubai. What did he bring from Dubai. So, I withdraw that statement [Laughter].
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable
Member. That is the spirit that we want in this honourable House Hon.
Ndebele.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: In terms of contributions, I would want to thank the Hon. Members that raised some funding. I will not forget to thank those I represent. They looked for 30t of clothes and food. Even if we had a disaster in Buhera South, our constituency will manage because they managed to mobilise the resources because we had observed that our magnitude was at a lesser extent compared to the total disaster that was in the Chipinge and Chimanimani districts. We had to come up with round nuts and all sorts of food to contribute.
What hurt us most was that we requested for a vehicle because we did not have transport. We requested the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. They only came to collect 25t and up to now they have not collected the remainder of the goods that we have. Some of the food stuffs and the goods are now being destroyed by
rats.
The people of my constituency, where we have the center of the constituency where we hold meetings, they are seeing these things and it tends to put them off because once people contribute, they expect people to take the goods and give those that are deserving. One member of the community was taken aback when we tried to give her back the dress that she had donated.
The Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing and the Civil Protection Unit should timeously act and once they have been given donations, they should timeously collect the donations and deliver them to deserving persons.
We once told the Hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Sacco but he also did not have transport. We still have these items. A few items remain but it pains me that people made their contributions whole heartedly. This could mean it is a tip of the iceberg because there might be other such goods that might have been contributed that are in the other districts. So, I urge the relevant Committee and the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to take these goods to their recipients so that everyone is happy, both the recipients and the givers.
Lastly Mr. Speaker Sir, I would want to thank the people of
Zimbabwe for supporting the President, President Mnangagwa. They did not act along political lines whether they were MDC or ZANU PF. Once the President informed the nation of the disaster, the people listened to their President although some people denied that he is their President. They heeded his call after he said that he is the President of the country and they had experienced a disaster. The people heard him and listened to him. I want to thank the people of Zimbabwe for listening to their President although some have their reservations, but they heard it and they heard the President’s plea that anyone should contribute. So I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I object. We still want to debate – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. MUSHAYI: Allow us to debate. We want to debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
Order, order! I will allow an Hon. Member from each party and that is it. +HON. N. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me
this opportunity to debate on the national disaster that occurred in Chimanimani. Firstly, I would like to thank the Committee on Local
Government and the Chairperson, Hon. Chikukwa for visiting the area. Before I proceed Mr. Speaker Sir, if ever there is a disaster such as this, the Committee on Local Government should visit the affected area very quickly. You should provide funding for them so that they visit the area quickly.
Two weeks ago, there was another disaster that happened in Binga but I see that the Committee on Local Government is still here. Is it because there is no funding for them to visit the area? Mr. Speaker, my request is that you provide funding for them to visit Binga. When the disaster occurred in Chimanimani, a lot of people made donations including churches. Even my church in Gwanda also contributed. If you send the Committee on Local Government to visit the place and be on the ground, you will realise that there are bins all over where people are depositing their contributions. The contributions can be taken to Binga as soon as possible.
My point is, when there is disaster or death, there are no political parties in disasters. There is no ZANU PF or MDC. In Chimanimani, we saw people receiving donations wearing regalia. They should be reminded that this has nothing to do with political parties meaning that people who perished were from either political party. So, this is not a one party thing.
Going forward Mr. Speaker, there should be accountability and as I have already stated that we also made contributions in Gwanda, we do not know whether or not the intended beneficiaries received the donations. We want to know whether or not the intended beneficiaries received the donations. We all saw an old lady who walked from Mbare who carried her donations on the head. We would like to thank her for contributing and for her kind heart.
We also want the Civil Protection Unit to be ready at all times because disasters can happen at any time. We had floods in Binga and now we have the Coronavirus and we are not sure when it is going to attack us here. So we want the Civil Protection Unit to be on the lookout and the country should also be on high alert. We do not want the President to be saying that because of this, we are now diverting funds to this. We do not want to be making contributions all the time Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. PRISCILA MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want
to add my voice on the report that is in regard to Cyclone Idai that occurred in Chimanimani and Chipinge. It hurt the entire country and as a result, it also united the entire country.
From what we have heard in this august House, we plead with the Government to make follow-ups because we are in the rainy season. Other infrastructure that have been repaired have now been destroyed and people have suffered from the floods that are occurring in the area. May Government take this opportunity to go and ensure that people have portable and safe drinking water. Government should also send people to ensure that those who lost documentation such as identification cards and birth certificates acquire these with ease so that children do not lose out on attending school.
From the report that was tabled, we have not heard if what the
Committee recommended was done or whether the Committee’s recommendations have since been taken on board. Some people are still in temporary shelters or in tents as the report suggests. Imagine a situation where as a family you live for a whole year in a tent. This is quite painful. It is unpalatable. As a way of living, imagine the girls sharing the same room with their parents.
It is my considered view that the Committee should go back and evaluate the situation that is on the ground and to see whether or not their recommendations were taken on board and as to whether the donations that were received were put to good use. There are allegations of theft of property and we also hear that the beneficiaries are yet to receive some of the goods that were meant for them. May the
Committee look into it so that they resource the Committee so that it can go back and carry out a monitoring and evaluation exercise so that we see what is now actually prevailing on the ground.
It is my considered view Hon. Speaker that I need to reiterate that the Committee should go back and carryout an evaluation. I was quite pained by Hon. Chinotimba when he explained that to date, the donations that he had sourced in his constituency are yet to be distributed yet at the moment we have people who are suffering due to lack of sufficient means and carrying out a comfortable life. With these few words, I rest my case. I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 26th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day Number 23 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. C. MOYO: On a point of order Mr. Speaker, I would like to raise the issue of quorum which is very important in this House. Can you check on the quorum Hon. Speaker Sir? I thank you.
Bells rung.
An objection having been taken that there being present fewer than (70) Members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still
not being present, THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MUTOMBA) adjourned the House without any question put at Twenty
Minutes past Five o’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following Members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Bushu B.; Hon. Chibagu G.; Hon. Chibaya A.; Chidakwa P.; Chikukwa M. R.; Chikuni E.; Chingosho C. P.; Chipato
A.; Dzepasi G.; Dzuma S.; Gwanongodza E.; Kabozo S.; Kapuya F.;
Kashiri C.; Khumalo S. S.; Madhuku J.; Madziva S.; Masango C. P.;
Masenda N. T.; Mavenyengwa R.; Mbondiah M.; Mhona F. T.; Mkandla
M.; Mkaratigwa E.; Moyo C.; Moyo Priscilla; Mpofu M. M.;
Mudarikwa S.; Mukuhlani T.; Murambiwa O.; Mushayi M.; Musiyiwa
R.; Mutambisi C.; Ncube E.; Ncube Ophar; Ndebele A.; Ndiweni D.;
Ndlovu N.; Nduna D. T.; Nhari V.; Nkani A.; Nkomo M.; Nyabani T.;
Nyabote R.; Nyamudeza S.; Nyathi R. R.; Nyere C.; Paradza K.; Rungani A.; Samambwa E.; Samson A.; Shava J.; Sithole Josiah; Svuure D.; Togarepi P.; Tsunga R.; Tsuura N.; Tungamirai T. and Zhou P.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
SUBMSSION OF BIOGRAPHIES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to
remind Hon. Senators who have not yet submitted their biographies to Public Relations Department to do so at Parliament Building, Office Number 312, 3rd Floor, South Wing and Office Number 520, 5th Floor,
South Wing, Pax House.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 1 to 5 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 6 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE ZIMBABWEAN DELAGATION BILATERAL
VISIT, CUBA
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move the motion
standing my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwean delegation to Havana, Cuba for a Bilateral Visit from 1st to 6th September, 2019.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Hon. President.
This delegation was led by the President of the Senate Hon. Chinomona.
The Zimbabwean Ambassador to Cuba became part of our delegation, His Excellency Ignatius Graham Mudzimba but he also provided administrative and logistical support to the delegation throughout our visit. The Bilateral visit provided a platform for the Parliament of
Zimbabwe and National Assembly of People’s Power to explore possibilities and possible areas of cooperation with the aim of furthering the bilateral relations that exist between our two countries.
The visit was also an opportunity for Parliament to learn the relationship between Zimbabwe and Cuba and to know that it is now a shifting relationship and moving away from the traditional cooperation in education and health and it is breaking into new areas, particularly technology, tourism; among others. We first had briefing by the Ambassador of the Republic of Zimbabwe to Cuba. He set us down and briefed us of what is happening in Cuba and outstanding in his brief was the fact that the Mission was seized with broadening the cooperation from the traditional education and health sectors to areas of manufacturing, pharmaceuticals and tourism.
He also lamented the embargo on Cuba that was affecting the country in various sectors, which include but are not limited to fuel supply, dwindling tourist arrivals and general unavailability of basic commodities on the local market. I think this is very important because while we may be having sanctions, they have an embargo. An embargo is a much more powerful tool that is being used against Cuba. He added that according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, his Mission should not cover Cuba alone and this is very instructive but it covers ten more island countries namely Bahamas,
Guyana, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cayman Islands, Jamaica, Haiti, French Guinea and Surinam. However, due to financial constraints, the ambassador has not been able to present papers of credence to any of the above-mentioned countries. Consequently, cooperation with these countries has been limited to informal interactions with no concrete brokering of deals that benefit these countries and Zimbabwe.
He highlighted the difficult operating environment in Cuba characterised by unpaid rentals at the Chancery and at the ambassador’s residence. If they get US dollars they are penalised by Government there. They have obsolete utility vehicles, dilapidated furniture and are short of very basic commodities.
While responding to the ambassador, the Hon President of the
Senate commended the staff for their innovation and maintaining the
Chancery operational. She also undertook to engage the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade on all important issues raised by the ambassador and his staff. She observed that the establishment of diplomatic relations with ten island countries was urgent and overdue as this would unlock opportunities for Zimbabwe in various sectors in line with the national stance that Zimbabwe is open for business. She added that a solution ought to be found regarding remuneration of the staff in
Euros to cushion them against the levies imposed by the Cuban
Government for the US dollar.
We then visited this iconic place called Jose Marti Memorial and we also visited the House of Africa and Colon Metropolis where they put their heroes. Jose Marti Memorial is a Cuban National Heritage
Centre designed to honour, preserve and showcase the life of Jose the Cuban liberation icon. It is a big place. They trace his history from childhood and it is very instructive how he became a national hero in Cuba. The House of Africa is a museum displaying the rich African culture and its diversity. It houses several artifacts that were presented as gifts to the late former President of Cuba, Fidel Castro by different African leaders. We went to this big museum which is three stories and all of it is just full of artifacts and gifts that came from various African governments including our very own. It was very impressive that you get such a place. It shows how Cuba respects and is very attached to its African heritage. Visits to these historical sites exposed the delegation to
Cuba’s strong attachment to the African continent.
We then visited the Generic Engineering and Biotechnology Centre. Here we were addressed by Dr Manuel Perez Castaneda. This centre is very impressive. The delegation was given an insight into the historical background of the centre and the following were highlighted. As we got in, one of the things that was amazing was that they actually had full statistics on Zimbabwe’s health sector. They were telling us about our diabetes levels, our HIV/AIDS levels, our hepatitis and so on and so forth. We used to think that it is only the Western countries that come and tell us but Cuba was telling us exactly our statistics.
The institution employs 22 000 employees has got 31 centres and
64 manufacturing facilities and it exports pharmaceuticals to the United States and Europe. The institution is designed to solve health problems and it is not necessarily an income generating venture. Cuba has technology to repair hearing impairment. While Zimbabwe is grappling with Hepatitis B, Cuba has managed to eradicate the disease and is prepared to assist Zimbabwe reach a safe destination. He however commended Zimbabwe for the big strides that we have made in malaria and HIV. Cuba is very advanced in cancer and diabetes treatment. I notice a lot of people are now going to Cuba for treatment of cancer and to look at their diabetic levels. Cuba is prepared to assist Zimbabwe to address the issue of hepatitis and HIV challenges.
We then met the President of the National Assembly. They do not have two houses. They have the National Assembly and the boss there was a very big man. You are big yourself Mr. President but he is twice as big. He received us and lauded the relationship between Cuba and Africa in general and Zimbabwe in particular. He made reference to 1.2 million slaves brought to Cuba from Africa and these slaves came mostly from West Africa. It is very significant and a lot of these fought in the Cuban wars for liberation. He indicated that Zimbabwe and Cuba cooperated intensely in education and health. This is well known now that in terms of education and health we really have been comrades. He also highlighted the US imposed embargo that it is crippling the economic development of Cuba and pointed out the blockade that was affecting movement of fuel from Venezuela into Cuba. The blockade is actually real. The US patrol, that sea between Cuba and Venezuela and if there are any ships that are taking oil to Cuba, they are blocked.
The delegation was appraised of the new Constitution of Cuba and the various reforms that Cuba was embarking on as well as the 53% women representation in Parliament. The Hon President of the National
People’s Power condemned the sanctions on Zimbabwe but encouraged resilience in light of the sanctions and look up to the cooperating nations for sustenance.
Cuba has managed to survive the sanctions with guidance of very strong political leadership and the dictates of communism and socialism planted by the late Fidel Castro and support from friendly countries. The delegation also learned that Cuba has three arms of government as enshrined in their constitution. Very similar to us; the Executive,
Legislature and the Judiciary. It was informed that the National Assembly of Peoples Power only meets twice a year. It is not this daily meeting. They meet twice a year. However, they have permanent committees which are working groups which work throughout the year and make recommendations where necessary to the National Assembly.
It is a very curious system.
In response to the points raised, the President of the Senate appreciated the assistance rendered to Zimbabwe by Cuba dating back to the liberation struggle up to the cooperation in health and education and she expressed her hope for continued cooperation in those fields. She advised that she herself was trained by Cubans in Ethiopia and that Fidel Castro was present at her pass out parade. She indicated that Zimbabwe was currently going through reforms and exploring various means to counter economic crisis caused by the sanctions.
The Hon. President of the Senate and the President of the National Peoples Power agreed to cooperate and assist each other in the fight against US sanctions at all global platforms including at the UN General Assembly. We then met with the Cuban Women Federation – we as men were told not to come to that. It was only the women delegates who met their fellow women members.
So the President of Senate delegation was apprised of the existence and operation of the Cuban Women’s Federation whose mandate is to improve the lives of Cuban women and defend the Cuban revolution while creating equality and promoting care for the family. With a membership of over 4 000 000 the Federation has made the following achievements.
- 66% of the professional and technical employees in Cuba are women.
- Reserving of a certain quota of the position in various sectors of the Cuban society. This resulted in the 5% women membership in Parliament.
- There was inclusion of women in the military service.
- Assisting members of the Federation who became incapacitated due to age or other means. I think this is so important when you have these sort of groupings that you assist each other.
- Vocational training of women especially young women in various areas such as agriculture amongst others.
- Promoting young women to take up leadership positions in view of Cuba’s aging population.
The delegation learnt that powerful Ministries such as Finance and Labour are occupied by women ministers. The Attorney General and the Governor of the Central Bank are also women and 80% of the legal fraternity are women. Above all, the Council of State of Cuba has five vice presidents and three of them are women. In their presidium, they have got the President then they have five vice presidents - of those, five vice presidents three of them are women and this Federation looks forward to a female president in the very near future.
In response the President of the Senate and her delegation appreciated the manner in which the Federation is run as it is nonpartisan, non-governmental but only focuses on achieving a society where women play a prominent role in developing the country, an idea that is worth emulating.
We then visited Varadero Tourist Resort. Varadero is really like their Victoria Falls. If you go to Cuba and you do not go to Varadero then know that you will really not have done much. So in order to appreciate Cuba as a tourist destination, the delegation undertook a tour of Varadero, a tourist resort located 150 km from Havana which accounts for at least 40% of the country’s GDP.
Cuba has invested very heavily in infrastructure development in this resort town. Varadero boasts of 50 up- market hotels with a total room capacity of 21 000 and expected to add another 3 000 by the year 2021. We went there, Mr. President, I did not think that Cuba had such hotels. In fact some of them were not five star but were actually seven star hotels. Big structures with glass all over overlooking the sea, beautiful and I think that it is something that we underestimate.
To circumvent the United States embargo, Cuba has relied on joint ventures with international companies from friendly nations to run the tourist industry which attracts up to 2 000 000 tourists every year.
We then went to the Ministry of Public Health, our equivalent of the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the delegation appreciated the following facts about the Cuban health system. We have about 2 000 to 3 000 doctors in this country and our population is about the same as Cuba. Cuba has 101 619 doctors, 46 000 of them are family doctors and the rural areas of Cuba are 100% covered by doctors. One doctor covers 110 citizens. One dentist covers 602 inhabitants and one nurse covers 128 citizens. The infant mortality rate is 4 per 1000 new born. We are at about 55. Life expectancy stands as 78 years. We have about four medical schools and Cuba has 13 schools of medicines and it also has
the Latin American School of Medicine and the National School of Public Health.
This, Mr. President, is very instructive. Access to health is universal and free of charge. In terms of facilities Cuba boasts of 131 maternity homes and homes for the elderly. We have not many houses for the elderly. I think each of our cities may have one or two but clearly we need to look at that. We are now getting an aging population.
We must look at that very thoroughly.
They have got day care homes for the elderly and they have got 12 research institutes. We have one. Twenty-eight percent of the nation’s budget accounts for 9.7% of the national GDP is allocated to the health sector. Cuba is currently running 11 vaccination programmes covering
13 diseases and it has eradicated certain diseases that we still have here. It has eradicated polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps and pertussis which is whooping cough.
Our prevalence rate for HIV in this country is about 15. The prevalence rate in Cuba for HIV is 0.27. Cuba has a presence of doctors in 164 countries including our own. The delegation appreciated the assistance rendered to Zimbabwe by Cuba in the health sector and sort collaboration in the area of pharmaceuticals. The delegation also agreed to recommend that the Ministry of Health and Child Care visit Cuba for an in-depth appreciation of the health sector and bench marking.
Observation
Cuba has a strong social services development thrust guided by socialism and communism propagated by Fidel Castro. The country’s budget allocations reflect this position. Zimbabwe can learn best practices from Cuba with regards to the development of the health, education, sciences and tourism sectors as key development drivers.
Cuba has well formulated policies in place for the establishment of its critical institutions. The key to their achievement in health and education can be attributed to their ability to craft clear policies which are implementable and time framed.
The sanctions imposed by the United States of America have been a motivating factor in Cuba’s quest for self determination politically and economically. Cuba has engaged friendly republics to circumvent the ills of the illegal embargo. Cuba also has to deal with United States of America allies such as Brazil that have become hostile to Cuba.
Gender equality is valued highly in Cuba. Zimbabwe should honour its agreement entered with Cuba in all sectors. For example students on scholarships, we experience serious delays in disbursements of stipends, the Bindura University of Science and Technology engaged Cuban lecturers to work at the university and since November 2018 the lecturers have been on standby as our university continues to cite non availability of funds to fly the lecturers to Zimbabwe, Cuban doctors in Zimbabwe continue to experience delays in payment of their salaries and the Zimbabwe Tourist Authority failed on two occasions to provide air tickets for a Cuban dance group that was due to perform at the Harare Carnival.
The documentation of Jose Marti’s history as well as the displays of the Africa House show how Cubans value and preserve their history and it is worth emulating. Zimbabwe can learn a lot from Cuba in the energy sector since Cuba has invested heavily in renewable energy production. Cuba boasts of power generation from the following sources – thermal, solar, biomass, wind as well as crude oil generation.
Cuba has benefited from investments from China, India and from the United Arab Emirates in the energy sector. Cuba has a solid industry producing cigars. With Zimbabwe’s tobacco production local business people could embark in cigar production with Cuban assistance.
Mr. President, the delegation then made various recommendations which I think I will leave for now because I think Members can read on those Hon. Members can read on those.
In conclusion, the bilateral visit opened an opportunity for further cooperation between the two legislatures and by extension, the two countries. It is therefore, imperative that Zimbabwe emulates Cuba, not only in the traditional areas of cooperation in education and health but also in the new areas of pharmaceuticals, manufacturing and tourism.
Accordingly, the relevant committees and ministries need to take ample action to address key issues raised in this report. I thank you. – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
very much Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa for your report. May I remind Hon. Senators once again to put your phones on silent or better still switch them off.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was presented. I am one of the delegates who participated and travelled to Cuba with Hon. Madam President. I learnt a lot on this journey. I am not feeling well, please accept my apology and that is why I am not speaking that eloquently.
In support of what Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa said in the report that he just tabled – all that he has said is very correct that is what we came across. I learnt that other countries are working together as a team. We were given a warm welcome by the President of the People’s Power and the National Assembly who welcomed us very well. They gave us the history on Cuba.
I also noted that as a nation, they still prioritise and uphold the importance of their history. We were also shown where Jose Marti is, even his clothes are still there – in fact all his clothes are still there. I realised that it is very important for people to preserve their history so that even the future generations know the history of their country. He elaborated on the structure of their Parliament and what I took as important is that the number of women parliamentarians is at 53%, which is what we wish for as Zimbabweans that we could have a similar scenario as that which prevails in Cuba. It is our wish to also have a good number of women parliamentarians.
I also noticed that they have been under sanctions for almost 57 years but you will not see it because of the way that they are working as a team and the way in which they respect their country. You will not pick the fact that they are a nation that is reeling under sanctions. They also indicated that it is because of the leadership of the late Fidel Castro.
Even after he has long passed on, they are still following in his footsteps.
They also highlighted the fact that they get assistance from countries that they work with. Those countries that are not working with them, they do not really bother themselves about them. He also indicated that they do not take into consideration the countries that are not in good books with them and do not allow them to come and divide their country as Cuba or allow them to interfere in their national relations. Yes, they do not have a stable economy but you will not pick it because they work as a team. He also enlightened that the way that they work as a team is what is making their nation not to really reflect that it is a nation that is under sanctions. This is the reason why they also value their currency and are using it, even when it does not have much value but as a nation, they love the way that they are using their currency. They emphasised the fact that they want visitors to use the
Cuban currency which is an indication of how they value their currency.
I also realised that working as a team promotes the growth of the economy. He also indicated the fact that their history is a bit on the painful side especially considering the way that their fore fathers used to work. At times when he was narrating their history, we shed some tears and they do not want to revert to a similar situation that they experienced before. He also emphasised the fact that they are in good relations with Zimbabwe and when he sees someone who comes from Zimbabwe; he takes all Zimbabweans as relatives because Cubans love Zimbabwe because of the respect that Zimbabweans have. He also indicated that no one should interfere with Zimbabwe and Cuba’s relations. They emphasised the fact that once you leave, you would have left forever and never to return because they know that when you return, you will not receive a hearty welcome from the country.
He also indicated that those who try to work as sellouts do not normally succeed because of the teamwork that prevails in Cuba. They value everything that they have as a country and do not want any interference from other countries. I also admired the way that they value their liberation struggle and it is one thing that makes them to have the courage to work for their country and valuing everything that they have.
Hon. Madam President, as leader of the delegation, also spoke highly of Zimbabwe and expressed great pleasure in existing relations between Cuba and Zimbabwe. She also indicated the fact that Cuba and Zimbabwe have good relations and she believes that nothing will come in between because the two countries share their liberation struggle experiences. She also indicated the fact that one of the Hon. Senators in the delegation once travelled to Cuba during the war of liberation and learnt a lot. She emphasised the fact that we could learn from Cuba so that we work as a team and nation. As much as we are under sanctions, team work will make us get to greater heights. Yes we can differ in views but we work as Zimbabweans and as one team. We also took note that their Parliament only sits once per year. It is unlike us in Zimbabwe whereby we come to Parliament every week. They also have Committee system as well. They table reports in different Committees. In my view, I think that is why they are working as a team. It discourages the issue
of having salaries. Maybe that is why there are so many sell-outs in
Zimbabwe – it might be because of too many sittings that we are having.
In Cuba when they sit, they come and discuss important things and it is in rare cases whereby you can have someone who will try to be a sell out. I like the hospitality that we got and most of them value their traditions as well and the way they do their traditional herbs. The places they prepare their herbs are clean and nice. They are able to prepare their herbs in a good way. You will realise that most of the doctors that are from Cuba, when they come to Zimbabwe, they are good doctors. Maybe it is because of the way they value their traditions and their culture.
The Bible even says that the leadership that we have is appointed by God. Maybe that is why the people from Cube respect all the leadership that they have. I also want to thank the opportunity that I was given to accompany the Hon. Madam President of Senate to Cuba. I did not know that one day I would set my foot in Cuba.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: I would like to thank the Committee
for the report that they have given us. Mr. President, the report tells us of a wonderful economy and social story of Cuba. Cuba has been a friend of this country from days of the liberation struggle. The question is, why do we not copy our friend? We have been told of the wonderful economic infrastructure and development of Cuba in the face of adversities. We have been told about the wonderful healthcare infrastructure in Cuba. Infact, Cuba is exporting manpower and earning foreign currency from its manpower.
It has eradicated diseases that the Hon. Member talked about.
These include hepatitis B, malaria and so on. As the Chairman said, Cuba is under embargo and he correctly said that the embargo is more drastic than sanctions and yet under these sanctions or economic embargoes, Cuba has done well. The question is why can we not do that as well?
Let me just draw the attention of this House to the Smith Regime under sanctions. We all know that Government was under United Nations sanctions. In other words, it was not under targeted sanctions that operate in Zimbabwe. In other words, it was under worse economic sanctions than Zimbabwe and yet the Rhodesian economy improved. The Rhodesian manufacturing sector improved. Under the sanctions, they started doing value addition. This is the same country that we are ruling. They started doing import substitution.
My brothers here including Hon. Sen. Sekeramayi were the young men those days and they will testify that we had cigarettes called Peter Stuyvesant, Star and so on. As the sanctions were imposed, Rhodesia started manufacturing its own cigarettes. That is why we had Madison, Kingsgate and Everest. In other words, the point I am making is why have other countries or even the same country performed economically better under sanctions than we are doing now? It may be that the fault may not be in our stars dear Brutus but in ourselves. What is it that the Cubans has done that we are failing to do in the face of the same adversity? It is this thing Mr. President that must force us to put our thinking caps on. If Smith who was fighting a war which was costing him one million pounds a day – the liberations war that some of our Hon. Members were so brave to fight in; that war was costing his Government one million pounds a day but his Rhodesian dollar was above the United States Dollar. What is it that they were doing that we are not doing today?
When the wonderful story of Cuba was being told, there are a few things that we must learn. The first one is that it provides us an excellent case study in leadership. Never mind the political system there; the political system there was a communist dictatorship and we may not really muddle that system but it had a disciplined leadership. They were financially disciplined. They did not steal from their people, they did not have corruption which was so rampant and there was no state capture in Cuba. These are some of the things that we must learn. As long as there is state capture, prevalence of cartels in a country and as long as other people have more access to economic resources than others, a country will not develop.
Fortunately, Cuba was able to be very disciplined even though it was a dictatorship. It was a dictatorship with a disciplined dictator. If you have a disciplined dictator who makes sure that his Constitution is followed, looks at the best interest of his people and develops his man and women then that land may develop. We do not hear after the Cuban revolution of anything equal to Gukurahundi. We do not hear after the Cuban revolution anything similar to Murambatsvina or the 2008 election violence. We do not hear that. We do not hear of a Cuba in ruin or at war with its own people. We do not hear of that yet in this country we have an undeclared civil war against our own people and here Mr. President, we need to change our ways. Tinofanira kuchinja maitiro edu.
Just as an example, this Government promised our people that they were going to abide by the recommendations of the Mohlante
Commission. One of the recommendations of the Mohlante Commission was that the Government compensates the victims of the six families who were affected by the August 1, 2018 shootings. Up to now Mr.
President, no single cent has been paid to those families.
We can talk about what other countries’ attitude towards us is but what is our attitude towards our own people? Do we give our own people the justice they deserve? The Mohlante Commission said those people, the victims deserved justice. They were supposed to be compensated. Their children were supposed to be sent to school by our Government and our Government accepted that responsibility and undertook to help these families but two years have gone and nothing has been done.
The sorry way in which we treat ourselves brings us bad omen. This is a real case study of what a responsible Government can achieve even in the face of sanctions. I am sure when the Cubans talk about the United States embargo – they were affected and their sugar exports were affected, but they traded with those countries who did not impose sanctions. Why are we not trading with those countries that have not given us any sanctions? For example, why are we not favourably trading with China?
Zimbabwe is a big supermarket of Chinese goods, and South
Africa is not exporting anything. I think we must look at ourselves with black pride. We are an intelligent people, gifted people and we have mineral resources. Mr. President, in you I see an example of bravery that is in Zimbabwe’s people. These talented people, this talented nation, why is it in a sorry state? Is it that Cubans think better than us? Is it that Smith and his Government thought better than our Government or we are capable of thinking better than our Government? They are whatever it is Mr. President. There is something wrong with the way we are running our country and the Cuban story bears testimony to that. Thank you very much Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to say a few words as I am one of the delegates that went to Cuba on a bilateral visit. We learnt a lot and a lot has been said by Dr. Parirenyatwa. The other thing that I learnt when we went to their Public Centre is that we saw the whole data for this country for every province and the population. They said Zimbabweans say you are 14 million but you are16 million.
This shows that they have better data than what we have. We learnt a lot because of this bilateral visit. I would like to thank Parliament of Zimbabwe which made such arrangements for us to go and see what others do in their countries. Cuba has invested so much in health. They gave us a report to say their doctors who were deployed in different countries all over the world bring $7 billion per year in their country.
This is why this embargo that we are facing did not disturb them much.
The other thing that I learnt in Cuba is that Cubans like their country and are united. They speak one language in terms of defending their country. This embargo has disturbed the movement of fuel because most of their fuel comes from Venezuela. They used to get 70% of the fuel from Venezuela but now because of the sanctions which were imposed upon Venezuela it means this will disturb the movement of cars in Cuba.
The report talked about tourism and it is full of hotels. We went to Valdero Hotel and we saw a lot. Even though their neighbouring countries do not want people to visit Cuba, many people still go there. They go as individuals and they do some businesses but they also go and visit places of interest in that country. If Cuba had been using electricity as we do here in Zimbabwe, the country should not have been where it is right now but they use solar energy which makes their country have power all the time.
As women, we also went to the Women’s Federation and we asked as to which law they use in their country – party Constitution or national Constitution. They said they have one Constitution which is the national Constitution. So they have four million followers in that federation and our report is saying in Cuba, women are in different positions and they follow their Constitution to empower women. If you see the Speaker of Parliament in Cuba, if he enters this august House of ours, you will think that he is Zimbabwean.
When he saw us, he thought of slavery which happened in their country. Cuba respects the liberation war heroes. They showed us a woman General who is still alive and who went to war together with Fidel Castro. She is still there and is working in her country Cuba. We were also shown pictures of some people from Africa who were killed because of slave trade. You would see different people who fought in the war with their names which shows that documentation is very important in each and every country. We did not do that even in our Chimurenga liberation struggle, but Cuba has it and I think in the report it was also mentioned. The last thing which Fidel Castro did before he died, the gloves that he was given by the President of Venezuela, it is part of history and all the young people grow up knowing history. We had a revelation that we should come up with such things as Zimbabwe so that we will be on the map as Zimbabwe.
Our embassy was in trouble because rentals had not been paid, so they were given eviction orders. Madam President was very angry because of the situation, otherwise we should have gone there in the absence of the embassy. The embassies in Cuba pay four thousand per month but our ambassador, His Excellency Muzenda said that the Cubans told us that we are friends but we are under sanctions. They said they rely on these rentals, so if they chase us away what will they do. Their moral was very low because they said if you are saved with an eviction order, where would you go? Madam President had to intervene and we just plead with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to look into the situation of our embassies. With these few words, I want to thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Mr. President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that Order of
the Day No. 7 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND
HEALTH FINANCING IN AFRICA
Nineth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and health financing in Africa held in Brazzaville, Congo from 11th to 12th July, 2019.
Question against proposed.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON.
SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Two
Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
SUBMSSION OF BIOGRAPHIES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to
remind Hon. Senators who have not yet submitted their biographies to Public Relations Department to do so at Parliament Building, Office Number 312, 3rd Floor, South Wing and Office Number 520, 5th Floor,
South Wing, Pax House.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 1 to 5 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 6 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE ZIMBABWEAN DELAGATION BILATERAL
VISIT, CUBA
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move the motion
standing my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwean delegation to Havana, Cuba for a Bilateral Visit from 1st to 6th September, 2019.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Hon. President.
This delegation was led by the President of the Senate Hon. Chinomona.
The Zimbabwean Ambassador to Cuba became part of our delegation, His Excellency Ignatius Graham Mudzimba but he also provided administrative and logistical support to the delegation throughout our visit. The Bilateral visit provided a platform for the Parliament of
Zimbabwe and National Assembly of People’s Power to explore possibilities and possible areas of cooperation with the aim of furthering the bilateral relations that exist between our two countries.
The visit was also an opportunity for Parliament to learn the relationship between Zimbabwe and Cuba and to know that it is now a shifting relationship and moving away from the traditional cooperation in education and health and it is breaking into new areas, particularly technology, tourism; among others. We first had briefing by the Ambassador of the Republic of Zimbabwe to Cuba. He set us down and briefed us of what is happening in Cuba and outstanding in his brief was the fact that the Mission was seized with broadening the cooperation from the traditional education and health sectors to areas of manufacturing, pharmaceuticals and tourism.
He also lamented the embargo on Cuba that was affecting the country in various sectors, which include but are not limited to fuel supply, dwindling tourist arrivals and general unavailability of basic commodities on the local market. I think this is very important because while we may be having sanctions, they have an embargo. An embargo is a much more powerful tool that is being used against Cuba. He added that according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, his Mission should not cover Cuba alone and this is very instructive but it covers ten more island countries namely Bahamas,
Guyana, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cayman Islands, Jamaica, Haiti, French Guinea and Surinam. However, due to financial constraints, the ambassador has not been able to present papers of credence to any of the above-mentioned countries. Consequently, cooperation with these countries has been limited to informal interactions with no concrete brokering of deals that benefit these countries and Zimbabwe.
He highlighted the difficult operating environment in Cuba characterised by unpaid rentals at the Chancery and at the ambassador’s residence. If they get US dollars they are penalised by Government there. They have obsolete utility vehicles, dilapidated furniture and are short of very basic commodities.
While responding to the ambassador, the Hon President of the
Senate commended the staff for their innovation and maintaining the
Chancery operational. She also undertook to engage the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade on all important issues raised by the ambassador and his staff. She observed that the establishment of diplomatic relations with ten island countries was urgent and overdue as this would unlock opportunities for Zimbabwe in various sectors in line with the national stance that Zimbabwe is open for business. She added that a solution ought to be found regarding remuneration of the staff in
Euros to cushion them against the levies imposed by the Cuban
Government for the US dollar.
We then visited this iconic place called Jose Marti Memorial and we also visited the House of Africa and Colon Metropolis where they put their heroes. Jose Marti Memorial is a Cuban National Heritage
Centre designed to honour, preserve and showcase the life of Jose the Cuban liberation icon. It is a big place. They trace his history from childhood and it is very instructive how he became a national hero in Cuba. The House of Africa is a museum displaying the rich African culture and its diversity. It houses several artifacts that were presented as gifts to the late former President of Cuba, Fidel Castro by different African leaders. We went to this big museum which is three stories and all of it is just full of artifacts and gifts that came from various African governments including our very own. It was very impressive that you get such a place. It shows how Cuba respects and is very attached to its African heritage. Visits to these historical sites exposed the delegation to
Cuba’s strong attachment to the African continent.
We then visited the Generic Engineering and Biotechnology Centre. Here we were addressed by Dr Manuel Perez Castaneda. This centre is very impressive. The delegation was given an insight into the historical background of the centre and the following were highlighted. As we got in, one of the things that was amazing was that they actually had full statistics on Zimbabwe’s health sector. They were telling us about our diabetes levels, our HIV/AIDS levels, our hepatitis and so on and so forth. We used to think that it is only the Western countries that come and tell us but Cuba was telling us exactly our statistics.
The institution employs 22 000 employees has got 31 centres and
64 manufacturing facilities and it exports pharmaceuticals to the United States and Europe. The institution is designed to solve health problems and it is not necessarily an income generating venture. Cuba has technology to repair hearing impairment. While Zimbabwe is grappling with Hepatitis B, Cuba has managed to eradicate the disease and is prepared to assist Zimbabwe reach a safe destination. He however commended Zimbabwe for the big strides that we have made in malaria and HIV. Cuba is very advanced in cancer and diabetes treatment. I notice a lot of people are now going to Cuba for treatment of cancer and to look at their diabetic levels. Cuba is prepared to assist Zimbabwe to address the issue of hepatitis and HIV challenges.
We then met the President of the National Assembly. They do not have two houses. They have the National Assembly and the boss there was a very big man. You are big yourself Mr. President but he is twice as big. He received us and lauded the relationship between Cuba and Africa in general and Zimbabwe in particular. He made reference to 1.2 million slaves brought to Cuba from Africa and these slaves came mostly from West Africa. It is very significant and a lot of these fought in the Cuban wars for liberation. He indicated that Zimbabwe and Cuba cooperated intensely in education and health. This is well known now that in terms of education and health we really have been comrades. He also highlighted the US imposed embargo that it is crippling the economic development of Cuba and pointed out the blockade that was affecting movement of fuel from Venezuela into Cuba. The blockade is actually real. The US patrol, that sea between Cuba and Venezuela and if there are any ships that are taking oil to Cuba, they are blocked.
The delegation was appraised of the new Constitution of Cuba and the various reforms that Cuba was embarking on as well as the 53% women representation in Parliament. The Hon President of the National
People’s Power condemned the sanctions on Zimbabwe but encouraged resilience in light of the sanctions and look up to the cooperating nations for sustenance.
Cuba has managed to survive the sanctions with guidance of very strong political leadership and the dictates of communism and socialism planted by the late Fidel Castro and support from friendly countries. The delegation also learned that Cuba has three arms of government as enshrined in their constitution. Very similar to us; the Executive,
Legislature and the Judiciary. It was informed that the National Assembly of Peoples Power only meets twice a year. It is not this daily meeting. They meet twice a year. However, they have permanent committees which are working groups which work throughout the year and make recommendations where necessary to the National Assembly.
It is a very curious system.
In response to the points raised, the President of the Senate appreciated the assistance rendered to Zimbabwe by Cuba dating back to the liberation struggle up to the cooperation in health and education and she expressed her hope for continued cooperation in those fields. She advised that she herself was trained by Cubans in Ethiopia and that Fidel Castro was present at her pass out parade. She indicated that Zimbabwe was currently going through reforms and exploring various means to counter economic crisis caused by the sanctions.
The Hon. President of the Senate and the President of the National Peoples Power agreed to cooperate and assist each other in the fight against US sanctions at all global platforms including at the UN General Assembly. We then met with the Cuban Women Federation – we as men were told not to come to that. It was only the women delegates who met their fellow women members.
So the President of Senate delegation was apprised of the existence and operation of the Cuban Women’s Federation whose mandate is to improve the lives of Cuban women and defend the Cuban revolution while creating equality and promoting care for the family. With a membership of over 4 000 000 the Federation has made the following achievements.
- 66% of the professional and technical employees in Cuba are women.
- Reserving of a certain quota of the position in various sectors of the Cuban society. This resulted in the 5% women membership in Parliament.
- There was inclusion of women in the military service.
- Assisting members of the Federation who became incapacitated due to age or other means. I think this is so important when you have these sort of groupings that you assist each other.
- Vocational training of women especially young women in various areas such as agriculture amongst others.
- Promoting young women to take up leadership positions in view of Cuba’s aging population.
The delegation learnt that powerful Ministries such as Finance and Labour are occupied by women ministers. The Attorney General and the Governor of the Central Bank are also women and 80% of the legal fraternity are women. Above all, the Council of State of Cuba has five vice presidents and three of them are women. In their presidium, they have got the President then they have five vice presidents - of those, five vice presidents three of them are women and this Federation looks forward to a female president in the very near future.
In response the President of the Senate and her delegation appreciated the manner in which the Federation is run as it is nonpartisan, non-governmental but only focuses on achieving a society where women play a prominent role in developing the country, an idea that is worth emulating.
We then visited Varadero Tourist Resort. Varadero is really like their Victoria Falls. If you go to Cuba and you do not go to Varadero then know that you will really not have done much. So in order to appreciate Cuba as a tourist destination, the delegation undertook a tour of Varadero, a tourist resort located 150 km from Havana which accounts for at least 40% of the country’s GDP.
Cuba has invested very heavily in infrastructure development in this resort town. Varadero boasts of 50 up- market hotels with a total room capacity of 21 000 and expected to add another 3 000 by the year 2021. We went there, Mr. President, I did not think that Cuba had such hotels. In fact some of them were not five star but were actually seven star hotels. Big structures with glass all over overlooking the sea, beautiful and I think that it is something that we underestimate.
To circumvent the United States embargo, Cuba has relied on joint ventures with international companies from friendly nations to run the tourist industry which attracts up to 2 000 000 tourists every year.
We then went to the Ministry of Public Health, our equivalent of the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the delegation appreciated the following facts about the Cuban health system. We have about 2 000 to 3 000 doctors in this country and our population is about the same as Cuba. Cuba has 101 619 doctors, 46 000 of them are family doctors and the rural areas of Cuba are 100% covered by doctors. One doctor covers 110 citizens. One dentist covers 602 inhabitants and one nurse covers 128 citizens. The infant mortality rate is 4 per 1000 new born. We are at about 55. Life expectancy stands as 78 years. We have about four medical schools and Cuba has 13 schools of medicines and it also has
the Latin American School of Medicine and the National School of Public Health.
This, Mr. President, is very instructive. Access to health is universal and free of charge. In terms of facilities Cuba boasts of 131 maternity homes and homes for the elderly. We have not many houses for the elderly. I think each of our cities may have one or two but clearly we need to look at that. We are now getting an aging population.
We must look at that very thoroughly.
They have got day care homes for the elderly and they have got 12 research institutes. We have one. Twenty-eight percent of the nation’s budget accounts for 9.7% of the national GDP is allocated to the health sector. Cuba is currently running 11 vaccination programmes covering
13 diseases and it has eradicated certain diseases that we still have here. It has eradicated polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps and pertussis which is whooping cough.
Our prevalence rate for HIV in this country is about 15. The prevalence rate in Cuba for HIV is 0.27. Cuba has a presence of doctors in 164 countries including our own. The delegation appreciated the assistance rendered to Zimbabwe by Cuba in the health sector and sort collaboration in the area of pharmaceuticals. The delegation also agreed to recommend that the Ministry of Health and Child Care visit Cuba for an in-depth appreciation of the health sector and bench marking.
Observation
Cuba has a strong social services development thrust guided by socialism and communism propagated by Fidel Castro. The country’s budget allocations reflect this position. Zimbabwe can learn best practices from Cuba with regards to the development of the health, education, sciences and tourism sectors as key development drivers.
Cuba has well formulated policies in place for the establishment of its critical institutions. The key to their achievement in health and education can be attributed to their ability to craft clear policies which are implementable and time framed.
The sanctions imposed by the United States of America have been a motivating factor in Cuba’s quest for self determination politically and economically. Cuba has engaged friendly republics to circumvent the ills of the illegal embargo. Cuba also has to deal with United States of America allies such as Brazil that have become hostile to Cuba.
Gender equality is valued highly in Cuba. Zimbabwe should honour its agreement entered with Cuba in all sectors. For example students on scholarships, we experience serious delays in disbursements of stipends, the Bindura University of Science and Technology engaged Cuban lecturers to work at the university and since November 2018 the lecturers have been on standby as our university continues to cite non availability of funds to fly the lecturers to Zimbabwe, Cuban doctors in Zimbabwe continue to experience delays in payment of their salaries and the Zimbabwe Tourist Authority failed on two occasions to provide air tickets for a Cuban dance group that was due to perform at the Harare Carnival.
The documentation of Jose Marti’s history as well as the displays of the Africa House show how Cubans value and preserve their history and it is worth emulating. Zimbabwe can learn a lot from Cuba in the energy sector since Cuba has invested heavily in renewable energy production. Cuba boasts of power generation from the following sources – thermal, solar, biomass, wind as well as crude oil generation.
Cuba has benefited from investments from China, India and from the United Arab Emirates in the energy sector. Cuba has a solid industry producing cigars. With Zimbabwe’s tobacco production local business people could embark in cigar production with Cuban assistance.
Mr. President, the delegation then made various recommendations which I think I will leave for now because I think Members can read on those Hon. Members can read on those.
In conclusion, the bilateral visit opened an opportunity for further cooperation between the two legislatures and by extension, the two countries. It is therefore, imperative that Zimbabwe emulates Cuba, not only in the traditional areas of cooperation in education and health but also in the new areas of pharmaceuticals, manufacturing and tourism.
Accordingly, the relevant committees and ministries need to take ample action to address key issues raised in this report. I thank you. – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
very much Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa for your report. May I remind Hon. Senators once again to put your phones on silent or better still switch them off.
+HON. SEN. R. M. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was presented. I am one of the delegates who participated and travelled to Cuba with Hon. Madam President. I learnt a lot on this journey. I am not feeling well, please accept my apology and that is why I am not speaking that eloquently.
In support of what Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa said in the report that he just tabled – all that he has said is very correct that is what we came across. I learnt that other countries are working together as a team. We were given a warm welcome by the President of the People’s Power and the National Assembly who welcomed us very well. They gave us the history on Cuba.
I also noted that as a nation, they still prioritise and uphold the importance of their history. We were also shown where Jose Marti is, even his clothes are still there – in fact all his clothes are still there. I realised that it is very important for people to preserve their history so that even the future generations know the history of their country. He elaborated on the structure of their Parliament and what I took as important is that the number of women parliamentarians is at 53%, which is what we wish for as Zimbabweans that we could have a similar scenario as that which prevails in Cuba. It is our wish to also have a good number of women parliamentarians.
I also noticed that they have been under sanctions for almost 47 years but you will not see it because of the way that they are working as a team and the way in which they respect their country. You will not pick the fact that they are a nation that is reeling under sanctions. They also indicated that it is because of the leadership of the late Fidel Castro.
Even after he has long passed on, they are still following in his footsteps.
They also highlighted the fact that they get assistance from countries that they work with. Those countries that are not working with them, they do not really bother themselves about them. He also indicated that they do not take into consideration the countries that are not in good books with them and do not allow them to come and divide their country as Cuba or allow them to interfere in their national relations. Yes, they do not have a stable economy but you will not pick it because they work as a team. He also enlightened that the way that they work as a team is what is making their nation not to really reflect that it is a nation that is under sanctions. This is the reason why they also value their currency and are using it, even when it does not have much value but as a nation, they love the way that they are using their currency. They emphasised the fact that they want visitors to use the
Cuban currency which is an indication of how they value their currency.
I also realised that working as a team promotes the growth of the economy. He also indicated the fact that their history is a bit on the painful side especially considering the way that their fore fathers used to work. At times when he was narrating their history, we shed some tears and they do not want to revert to a similar situation that they experienced before. He also emphasised the fact that they are in good relations with Zimbabwe and when he sees someone who comes from Zimbabwe; he takes all Zimbabweans as relatives because Cubans love Zimbabwe because of the respect that Zimbabweans have. He also indicated that no one should interfere with Zimbabwe and Cuba’s relations. They emphasised the fact that once you leave, you would have left forever and never to return because they know that when you return, you will not receive a hearty welcome from the country.
He also indicated that those who try to work as sellouts do not normally succeed because of the teamwork that prevails in Cuba. They value everything that they have as a country and do not want any interference from other countries. I also admired the way that they value their liberation struggle and it is one thing that makes them to have the courage to work for their country and valuing everything that they have.
Hon. Madam President, as leader of the delegation, also spoke highly of Zimbabwe and expressed great pleasure in existing relations between Cuba and Zimbabwe. She also indicated the fact that Cuba and Zimbabwe have good relations and she believes that nothing will come in between because the two countries share their liberation struggle experiences. She also indicated the fact that one of the Hon. Senators in the delegation once travelled to Cuba during the war of liberation and learnt a lot. She emphasised the fact that we could learn from Cuba so that we work as a team and nation. As much as we are under sanctions, team work will make us get to greater heights. Yes we can differ in views but we work as Zimbabweans and as one team. We also took note that their Parliament only sits once per year. It is unlike us in Zimbabwe whereby we come to Parliament every week. They also have Committee system as well. They table reports in different Committees. In my view, I think that is why they are working as a team. It discourages the issue
of having salaries. Maybe that is why there are so many sell-outs in
Zimbabwe – it might be because of too many sittings that we are having.
In Cuba when they sit, they come and discuss important things and it is in rare cases whereby you can have someone who will try to be a sell out. I like the hospitality that we got and most of them value their traditions as well and the way they do their traditional herbs. The places they prepare their herbs are clean and nice. They are able to prepare their herbs in a good way. You will realise that most of the doctors that are from Cuba, when they come to Zimbabwe, they are good doctors. Maybe it is because of the way they value their traditions and their culture.
The Bible even says that the leadership that we have is appointed by God. Maybe that is why the people from Cube respect all the leadership that they have. I also want to thank the opportunity that I was given to accompany the Hon. Madam President of Senate to Cuba. I did not know that one day I would set my foot in Cuba.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: I would like to thank the Committee
for the report that they have given us. Mr. President, the report tells us of a wonderful economy and social story of Cuba. Cuba has been a friend of this country from days of the liberation struggle. The question is, why do we not copy our friend? We have been told of the wonderful economic infrastructure and development of Cuba in the face of adversities. We have been told about the wonderful healthcare infrastructure in Cuba. Infact, Cuba is exporting manpower and earning foreign currency from its manpower.
It has eradicated diseases that the Hon. Member talked about.
These include hepatitis B, malaria and so on. As the Chairman said, Cuba is under embargo and he correctly said that the embargo is more drastic than sanctions and yet under these sanctions or economic embargoes, Cuba has done well. The question is why can we not do that as well?
Let me just draw the attention of this House to the Smith Regime under sanctions. We all know that Government was under United Nations sanctions. In other words, it was not under targeted sanctions that operate in Zimbabwe. In other words, it was under worse economic sanctions than Zimbabwe and yet the Rhodesian economy improved. The Rhodesian manufacturing sector improved. Under the sanctions, they started doing value addition. This is the same country that we are ruling. They started doing import substitution.
My brothers here including Hon. Sen. Sekeramayi were the young men those days and they will testify that we had cigarettes called Peter Stuyvesant, Star and so on. As the sanctions were imposed, Rhodesia started manufacturing its own cigarettes. That is why we had Madison, Kingsgate and Everest. In other words, the point I am making is why have other countries or even the same country performed economically better under sanctions than we are doing now? It may be that the fault may not be in our stars dear Brutus but in ourselves. What is it that the Cubans has done that we are failing to do in the face of the same adversity? It is this thing Mr. President that must force us to put our thinking caps on. If Smith who was fighting a war which was costing him one million pounds a day – the liberations war that some of our Hon. Members were so brave to fight in; that war was costing his Government one million pounds a day but his Rhodesian dollar was above the United States Dollar. What is it that they were doing that we are not doing today?
When the wonderful story of Cuba was being told, there are a few things that we must learn. The first one is that it provides us an excellent case study in leadership. Never mind the political system there; the political system there was a communist dictatorship and we may not really muddle that system but it had a disciplined leadership. They were financially disciplined. They did not steal from their people, they did not have corruption which was so rampant and there was no state capture in Cuba. These are some of the things that we must learn. As long as there is state capture, prevalence of cartels in a country and as long as other people have more access to economic resources than others, a country will not develop.
Fortunately, Cuba was able to be very disciplined even though it was a dictatorship. It was a dictatorship with a disciplined dictator. If you have a disciplined dictator who makes sure that his Constitution is followed, looks at the best interest of his people and develops his man and women then that land may develop. We do not hear after the Cuban revolution of anything equal to Gukurahundi. We do not hear after the Cuban revolution anything similar to Murambatsvina or the 2008 election violence. We do not hear that. We do not hear of a Cuba in ruin or at war with its own people. We do not hear of that yet in this country we have an undeclared civil war against our own people and here Mr. President, we need to change our ways. Tinofanira kuchinja maitiro edu.
Just as an example, this Government promised our people that they were going to abide by the recommendations of the Mohlante
Commission. One of the recommendations of the Mohlante Commission was that the Government compensates the victims of the six families who were affected by the August 1, 2018 shootings. Up to now Mr.
President, no single cent has been paid to those families.
We can talk about what other countries’ attitude towards us is but what is our attitude towards our own people? Do we give our own people the justice they deserve? The Mohlante Commission said those people, the victims deserved justice. They were supposed to be compensated. Their children were supposed to be sent to school by our Government and our Government accepted that responsibility and undertook to help these families but two years have gone and nothing has been done.
The sorry way in which we treat ourselves brings us bad omen. This is a real case study of what a responsible Government can achieve even in the face of sanctions. I am sure when the Cubans talk about the United States embargo – they were affected and their sugar exports were affected, but they traded with those countries who did not impose sanctions. Why are we not trading with those countries that have not given us any sanctions? For example, why are we not favourably trading with China?
Zimbabwe is a big supermarket of Chinese goods, and South
Africa is not exporting anything. I think we must look at ourselves with black pride. We are an intelligent people, gifted people and we have mineral resources. Mr. President, in you I see an example of bravery that is in Zimbabwe’s people. These talented people, this talented nation, why is it in a sorry state? Is it that Cubans think better than us? Is it that Smith and his Government thought better than our Government or we are capable of thinking better than our Government? They are whatever it is Mr. President. There is something wrong with the way we are running our country and the Cuban story bears testimony to that. Thank you very much Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to say a few words as I am one of the delegates that went to Cuba on a bilateral visit. We learnt a lot and a lot has been said by Dr. Parirenyatwa. The other thing that I learnt when we went to their Public Centre is that we saw the whole data for this country for every province and the population. They said Zimbabweans say you are 14 million but you are16 million.
This shows that they have better data than what we have. We learnt a lot because of this bilateral visit. I would like to thank Parliament of Zimbabwe which made such arrangements for us to go and see what others do in their countries. Cuba has invested so much in health. They gave us a report to say their doctors who were deployed in different countries all over the world bring $7 billion per year in their country.
This is why this embargo that we are facing did not disturb them much.
The other thing that I learnt in Cuba is that Cubans like their country and are united. They speak one language in terms of defending their country. This embargo has disturbed the movement of fuel because most of their fuel comes from Venezuela. They used to get 70% of the fuel from Venezuela but now because of the sanctions which were imposed upon Venezuela it means this will disturb the movement of cars in Cuba.
The report talked about tourism and it is full of hotels. We went to Valdero Hotel and we saw a lot. Even though their neighbouring countries do not want people to visit Cuba, many people still go there. They go as individuals and they do some businesses but they also go and visit places of interest in that country. If Cuba had been using electricity as we do here in Zimbabwe, the country should not have been where it is right now but they use solar energy which makes their country have power all the time.
As women, we also went to the Women’s Federation and we asked as to which law they use in their country – party Constitution or national Constitution. They said they have one Constitution which is the national Constitution. So they have four million followers in that federation and our report is saying in Cuba, women are in different positions and they follow their Constitution to empower women. If you see the Speaker of Parliament in Cuba, if he enters this august House of ours, you will think that he is Zimbabwean.
When he saw us, he thought of slavery which happened in their country. Cuba respects the liberation war heroes. They showed us a woman General who is still alive and who went to war together with Fidel Castro. She is still there and is working in her country Cuba. We were also shown pictures of some people from Africa who were killed because of slave trade. You would see different people who fought in the war with their names which shows that documentation is very important in each and every country. We did not do that even in our Chimurenga liberation struggle, but Cuba has it and I think in the report it was also mentioned. The last thing which Fidel Castro did before he died, the gloves that he was given by the President of Venezuela, it is part of history and all the young people grow up knowing history. We had a revelation that we should come up with such things as Zimbabwe so that we will be on the map as Zimbabwe.
Our embassy was in trouble because rentals had not been paid, so they were given eviction orders. Madam President was very angry because of the situation, otherwise we should have gone there in the absence of the embassy. The embassies in Cuba pay four thousand per month but our ambassador, His Excellency Muzenda said that the Cubans told us that we are friends but we are under sanctions. They said they rely on these rentals, so if they chase us away what will they do. Their moral was very low because they said if you are saved with an eviction order, where would you go? Madam President had to intervene and we just plead with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to look into the situation of our embassies. With these few words, I want to thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Mr. President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that Order of
the Day No. 7 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND
HEALTH FINANCING IN AFRICA
Nineth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and health financing in Africa held in Brazzaville, Congo from 11th to 12th July, 2019.
Question against proposed.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 25th February, 2020.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON.
SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Two
Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 20th February, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PETITION RECEIVED FROM MR. E. V. ZIMUTSI
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to advise the House that on 10th
February, 2020, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Mr. E. V. Zimutsi beseeching Parliament to enact a legislation that provides for an Independent Complaints Mechanism as provided for in Section 210 of the Constitution. The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear that after some misunderstanding
yesterday about the seating arrangement, I am told now there is peace.
Issues have been raised amicably and that is as it should be, that if there is some disagreement let us talk, find each other and enjoy the peace of the House once more. I thank the Hon. Members concerned accordingly.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr Speaker Sir, I am going to confirm that I just spoke to the President of the MDC Advocate Nelson Chamisa about it. He did say that that is not how things should go. As a result, he did talk to his leadership. I am grateful to Hon. Khumalo, Hon Mutseyami and more important Hon. Hwende who was a true gentleman yesterday. When that happened, he decided to get up and leave but I am also aware that there are people who are new to Parliament and are not familiar with some of the proceedings. The decision of seating lies with the Speaker and does not lie with anybody else whether it is a Commonwealth arrangement but with the Speaker.
I would also like to say these tablets that we got – I think we need to have a 30 minute lesson for all of us because some of us are used to the I-phone and not Samsung. So anybody who needs further education on it can then see the ICT specialists. I think an understanding is needed.
I also saw that you have a heading known as Votes & Proceedings yet it is the Order Paper. I said to the Clerk, we know it as the Order Paper - how many people know it as Votes and Proceedings? We are used to calling it the Order Paper so maybe until we get to the point of understanding, maybe Order Paper will be the best to put it under because we know what the Order Paper is. Votes & Proceedings, I actually wanted to ask what it was and I was told it is the Order Paper So I thought it would be important to explain what each heading means so that we are familiar, or else I think they will not serve the purpose that they intend to serve.
Finally, let me comment on the Hwange judgement which nullified the reconstruction order. I want to say that it is important that the Committee I was chairing at the time did come up with such findings. I feel vindicated by that judgement. I am sure that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs in his wisdom will allow Hwange to actually be run in the manner that it should be run. Already, the administrator that had been appointed was starting to loot and not look after Hwange. My hope is that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs will concede to that and allow Hwange to be run in a professional manner so that it serves the purpose it is supposed to serve. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. KASHIRI: I rise on a point of privilege. We are representatives of the people and as such last week we came to
Parliament to address parents’ concerns with regards to exam fees which had been increased exorbitantly. In its wisdom, Government saw sense to it and reversed the fees. We would like to applaud the Government for this decision through the Ministry of Primary and Secondary education. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think the intervention came as a result of Hon. Members here from both sides making some intervention. So that response has got to be acknowledged accordingly.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE ON ALLEGATIONS OF CORRUPTION RAISED AGAINST HON. T. MLISWA, HON.
CHIKOMBA, HON. NDEBELE AND HON. P. D. SIBANDA
Question again proposed.
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the
Privileges Committee on allegations of soliciting for a bribe against
Hon. Mliswa, Hon. Chikomba, Hon. Ndebele and Hon. P. D. Sibanda.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of our regulations, an Hon. Member who is being accused has a right to reply. I therefore call upon the Hon. Members who have been accused to respond to the allegations accordingly. I hope Hon. Chikomba is here so that we can conclude this matter.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for affording me the opportunity to respond to the report by the Privileges Committee. My response shall be premised on two questions that arise out of the report that was presented in the House by the Chairperson of the
Committee. The two questions that will be the centre of my response
are firstly whether it was desirable to establish the Committee on Privileges in the first instance. Secondly, whether there was sufficient evidence which was adduced to the Committee to warrant any form of censure against me and my colleagues.
Hon. Speaker, the Committee in its report gives three reasons for justification of its establishment. If Hon. Members can be referred to Part 2 of the Committee Report, they will see that the Committee went a long way to try and show why it was important and justified that it be established. Its first reason was that a prima-facie case had been established therefore warranting such action of establishing the Committee. What is a prima-facie case and was it established on this matter such that it warranted the formation of the Privileges Committee?
The allegations laid against me and my colleagues are variously and interchangeably identified in the report as a solicitation of a bribe and corruption. These allegations are of a criminal nature and the standard of proof required in any enquiry are of the same standard as that of a criminal enquiry. That is trite, that is a common position. It follows that the standard of establishing a prima-facie case in this matter is the same with that of a criminal case – proof beyond reasonable doubt. The criminal case that the complainant had made with the police, and I take this opportunity to advise you Hon. Speaker that at one time the police wanted to take me and my colleagues to court but it failed on the basis that there was no prima facie case and that is why the matter never went to court.
Parliament Hon Speaker, cannot choose to lay charges of a criminal nature against Hon. Members while opting to use any other standard for establishing a prima facie case other than the one required at criminal law because the charges are of a criminal nature. May I indicate that in general terms…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. You need to be very careful with your statement. Do not impugn that the decision of the Chair which was adopted by this House on the question of prima facie circumstances was misdirected. Speak to the allegations against yourself. I am not sure whether the police did not pursue the matter because there was no prima facie case.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: It is alright Hon. Speaker. Under the circumstances, I will drop my first question which I had extensively researched on but since I have got that guidance from you Hon. Speaker, I will drop my first question and address the question of sufficiency of evidence that was adduced before the Committee.
Hon. Speaker, it is not in dispute that Mr. Goddard was advised by Hon. Mliswa to approach the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs for any transaction relating to Hwange Colliery Company. I think that is something that is agreeable, that in the meeting that was held in Mr. Goddard’s office Hon. Mliswa directed Mr.
Goddard to go and see the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs if he wanted to do any transaction pertaining to Hwange Colliery Company.
The basis of the allegations that I and my colleagues were facing
Hon. Speaker, are that we wanted to facilitate Goddard’s company to be contracted to Hwange Colliery Company. If Goddard was duly referred to the Hon. Minister as was adduced in the evidence that is before the House, then the question becomes - what was the basis of the Hon. Members asking for a facilitation fee? I thought the allegations are such that we solicited for a bribe and we engaged in corruption because we wanted to facilitate Mr. Goddard’s access to the mining in Hwange, but the same Mr. Goddard Hon. Speaker, informed your Committee that he had been directed by one of the accused Members to go and see the Hon.
Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
To me, it does not add up that here are Hon. Members who have referred an individual to say if you want business related to Hwange
Colliery Company, go and meet the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs. Therefore, what would be the basis upon which Hon. Members would demand to say, can you pay us a bribe for?
The Privileges Committee in its report does not at all explain the basis of Members demanding a bribe. It simply acknowledges that Members had directed Mr. Goddard to go and see the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. It does not touch on what basis then the Hon. Members were demanding to say can you give us a bribe. So the basis upon which a bribe was supposed to be sought for Hon. Speaker, fell away the moment that Hon. Mliswa directed the complainant to go and see the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Now, there was talk in the report that there was demand for money. Hon. Members, in their response gave a plausible reason for the demand of money that was made. The report says in paragraph 7(16), ‘that Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Ndebele were exonerated from the case by the key witnesses’. It further says, ‘the role of Hon. Sibanda is unclear in the evidence on paragraph 7 (16)’. When it speaks about me, it says my role was unclear.
Thus, according to the Committee, the three Hon. Members - Hon. Ndebele, Hon. Mliswa and myself never said anything about the money to Mr. Goddard. So in terms of the evidence that is available and that was adduced to the court, the three of us never spoke about the money and that is the evidence that is available Hon. Speaker. So it left only Hon. Chikomba as the only Hon. Member who talked about money to the complainant and the other people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, I have got a right.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! If you did not read the report you have no reason to make some comment. Thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Now Hon. Speaker, it is logical and very consistent with the evidence that was adduced by the Hon. Members before the Committee, that the person who was owed money and that point was not disputed by anybody, by one of the witnesses was Hon. Chikomba. So it was proper and it was consistent that Hon. Chikomba should have been heard speaking about money because he was owed money.
Hon. Speaker, it would have been irrational and it would have been abnormal if anybody else other than Hon. Chikomba under the circumstances would have spoken about money to those witnesses because nobody else was owed money by those three witnesses other than Hon. Chikomba. So, in my view it is consistent, the evidence that was adduced by the Hon. Members is plausible, it is believable and there is no basis upon which the Privileges Committee could have denied that especially in the absence of any evidence to the contrary from the witnesses of the Privileges Committee.
It is further interesting to note that the Committee itself rubbished the evidence of the three witnesses in its paragraph 7(1). It is not surprising therefore Hon. Speaker; that the Privileges Committee had to find the Hon. Members not guilty because there was no basis for fining otherwise after the above concession that was made by the Committee itself, that the evidence of the three key witnesses was inconsistent and that it was unbelievable.
What is surprising however Hon. Speaker is that after the Committee has rubbished the evidence of the three key witnesses and called it inconsistent and unbelievable, the Committee went on in paragraph 82 to cast aspersions on the conduct of Members for meeting with the three citizens. That to me Hon. Speaker speaks to a motive outside the adduced evidence to tarnish the image and integrity of the Hon. Members, the Committee concedes in the same paragraph that the conduct of going to meet citizens at any time is not regulated against in the Standing Rules and Orders; it concedes that such conduct is not regulated against.
Allow me Hon. Speaker to say that that Committee was a creature of statute and as a creature of statute Hon. Speaker; whatever it did should fall within the four corners of this statute. Anything outside the statutes Hon. Speaker, I think goes beyond the mandate of the Committee. I therefore, wonder Hon. Speaker, where the Committee drives its power to sanction the Hon. Members as it did in its paragraphs 93, 93(1) and 93(3). I am asking myself Hon. Speaker that the Committee says that I should apologise and it also said that one seating allowance should be deducted from me and my colleagues. The
Committee also says we should be barred from sitting in the Mines Committee. Now what is it that I have to apologise for Hon. Speaker after the Committee has exonerated me? I am busy asking myself, what should I come to apologise for and why should I lose my allowances, why should I be barred from sitting in the Mines Committee if the Committee itself had exonerated me from any wrong doing?
THE HON. SPEAKER: You have five minutes to go.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, it is my submission that
firstly, as I indicated, the Committee is a creature of statutes and should operate within the confines of the statutes. If it is the desire of Parliament to regulate that its members should not interact with citizens outside Parliament and at night, then Parliament should do so by ensuring that it puts that within the Standing Rules and Orders, then it becomes a contravention of our own statutes if as members we conduct ourselves in that regard.
In these instances Hon. Speaker, we cannot be punished for nothing, we cannot be punished for something that does not exist in the law and therefore, it is a serious misdirection for the privileges Committee to make the recommendations that it did in paragraph 93, paragraph 93 (1), paragraph 93 (2) and paragraph 93 (3). I therefore, implore upon this House Hon. Speaker, not to set a wrong precedent where a person is acquitted of any allegation that has been laid against them and then you go ahead to sanction them and to punish them because that is contrary to the requirements and needs of natural justice.
I thank you.
*HON. CHIKOMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON.
MEMBERS: Huya padhuze.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Huya pano padhuze – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] Order, order, Hon. Member, stay there. It is not for the Hon. Members to instruct Hon. Members who have been recognised by the Chair to take whatever position, that is my job, so the Hon. Member must speak from where he is.
*HON. CHIKOMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank you very much for choosing the members of the Privileges Committee after knowing that they are capable people who will look into our issue. I would like to express my gratitude for the fact that this issue was discussed but I thought this issue should have been discussed before the Privileges Committee but I have reservations. Since the outcome as has been said, there is nothing much that I can say – [HON.
MEMBERS:Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Keep quiet.
*HON. CHIKOMBA: I did not commit any crime. The issue is that Mr. Speaker, you chose experts in the Privileges Committee who looked into this issue and discovered that there is no issue. So I have no case although a lot of complaints were being tabled against me for being violent. It is because these people are crooks and up to date, they have not paid my money. It was not bribe money but they owed me money that they are supposed to pay back. They also admit that they owe me money and up to date, they have not paid me – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Please allow the Hon. Member
to finish talking.
HON. CHIKOMBA: The issue about money is to do with
business transported coal from Hwange to Harare. I was subcontracted to Shepherd Tundiya who has not paid me from 2011 to date. That is the money that I am owed.
They claimed that I asked for some other money which is not true. Even newspapers have stated that Shepherd Tundiya is a con-artist. I was simply asking for the money that I am owed. That is all I wanted to say - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Ngulube! - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, order! Hon Chikomba, you spoke very well and finished. May you now listen to the Chair.
In terms of rules and orders, the Hon. Members have stated their case in reply. What remains now is for the Committee to wind up the debate at a time perhaps next week if they are ready and we shall close the matter accordingly.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. CHIKUKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
STATE OF AFFAIRS REGARDING THE CORONAVIRUS
OUTBREAK
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (DR. O.
MOYO): Mr. Speaker Sir, I hereby present before this august House the state of affairs with regards to the Coronavirus outbreak. This outbreak has become a world-wide phenomena and I just want to give you the background on the evolution of this outbreak of this novel Coronavirus of 2019. We say novel because it is a new virus which has now been renamed COVID-19.
This started on the 30th of December 2019 as a cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown origin reported to the China National Health Commission on the 7th of January 2020. The source of this outbreak was traced to the Huanan Sea Food wholesale market which was then closed on 1st January 2020. COVID-19 is a respiratory infection caused by Corona Viruses and these are a large family of viruses that cause illnesses ranging from a common cold to severe disease such as the middle eastern respiratory syndrome and also what was generally referred to as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).The outbreak in China is from a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans.
Corona Viruses are transmitted between animals to humans and from human to human. It is what we call a zoonotic disease. The symptoms of the COVID-19 include fever, chest pain, chills, difficulty in breathing, headache, sore throat, cough, pneumonia and even kidney failure. The Coronavirus infection is highly infectious and can be spread through aerosols or through the air via coughing, sneezing and close personal contact with an infected person such as touching or shaking hands, touching an infected object like a door knob then touching your mouth or face without washing your face can also spread the virus.
Faecal contamination is also one of the roots of spreading the virus although it is very rare.
In order to reduce the risk of infection with the new Coronavirus, it is important to avoid close contact with anyone with a cold or flu like symptoms. Prevent unprotected contact with farm or wild animals, cover the nose and mouth when coughing and sneezing with tissue paper or flex elbow, wash hands with soap and running water after sneezing and coughing and when caring for the sick, after toilet use, before eating food, during and after preparing food, continuous washing of hands because hands are dirty and after handling animal and animal waste – it can be worse.
As of today, there are no cases of Coronavirus in Zimbabwe. As of the 19th, which is yesterday, the total number of cases worldwide now stands at 75 204 with 1872 new cases and 2009 deaths. The majority of cases which is 74 280 are all from China but cases have also been reported in 25 countries. 924 cases in those 25 countries and three deaths, with one case reported in Egypt. So Mr. Speaker Sir, you can see that there is an exponential rise in the disease. Last week it was at 28 000 in China and that has suddenly risen to 75 000.
As of Wednesday 19th February, 2020 - 3 373 people who have passed through our ports of entry have had to be place on selfquarantine. Of these 2 000 are Zimbabwean students who were studying in China and they are on self-quarantine on the 21 days surveillance to ensure that we detect any symptoms early. I can safely confirm that a female Zimbabwean traveler was identified through our surveillance system at Robert Mugabe International Airport having noted that she had been to the epicenter of this Coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan.
In order to protect our nation, the candidate had to be immediately isolated and to me, this shows that our system is working well and it is a sign of good preparedness. As we indicated before, our laboratory testing for Coronavirus is also fully functional and our scientists have managed to test the travelers and confirmed them to be negative for Coronavirus as authorities in China had also confirmed. So we can guarantee the nation that there is no Corona virus in Zimbabwe.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Matangira and your
colleagues there. We asked for this statement, give it some due respect because after this statement you will have to explain to the general populace in your constituencies. – [HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker, Hon. Matangira is always doing this and you are always lenient with him. Chuck him out!] – Hon. Sikhala, your time will come to Chair.
Hon. Minister, please proceed.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, we will
however, as per protocol, continue to monitor this candidate for the 21 day prescribed period. Our protocol continues to be stringent and protective of our nation and to further strengthen our surveillance a scientific approach requiring all travelers coming from China are to be screened and quarantined for 14 days in China and if they are found to be safe - they are to be issued with a clearance certificate to travel. When they get to Zimbabwe, they will still be subjected to a further 21 day quarantine.
The Ministry would like to urge the public and its stakeholders to remain vigilant against this disease. It is important that people contact the nearest health care provider for the correct information on theCOVID-19 disease. All those with plans to visit China are in the meantime being encouraged to postpone the visits unless absolutely necessary until the scourge has been declared over.
Let us have a look at the response to the Corona virus outbreak by Zimbabwe. Mr. Speaker Sir, the national response mechanism for surveillance and early detection of any possible cases was activated as of 24th January, 2020 and by mid February capacity building of all identified thematic areas to deal effectively with any cases had been conducted.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon.
Members may you lower your voices please!
HON. DR. O. MOYO: On 27th January, 2020 Mr. Speaker Sir, we managed to visit Robert Mugabe International Airport to assess the airport and port health state of preparedness. On the same day, we also held a press conference to discuss the ministry’s preparedness for the COVID-19 and in a meeting attended by the airport management, all key airport staff and media were available.
We also held bilateral discussions with the Chinese Embassy. We further had a tour of Victoria Falls International Airport and also the ground port to assess their surveillance system. The quarantine and isolation facility and the district of Hwange state of preparedness. We found the airport at Victoria Falls as the best facility in terms of isolation and quarantine facilities.
On 31st January, 2020 the National Rapid Response Team through the emergency operations centre, completed a day long Corona virus readiness checklist for Zimbabwe to see what is in place, what the gaps are and what can be done? The team has come up with a budgeted plan.
Bulawayo’s Joshua Mqabuko Airport …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members to my left
please!
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Beitbridge ground port and Plumtree
ground port – we managed to visit all those to assess their readiness to detect and manage any possible cases of COVID-19. We shall continue to do so.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have personally made the assessments and have been to all the border areas. This coming week, I will be visiting the northern borders to make sure that we have a thorough fool-proof border protection. We are also guided by the WHO Risk Assessment and the current Risk Assessment from WHO indicates that China has the highest risk. The rest of the global systems are at a high risk. China is a very high risk and the West is a high risk meaning that we are living in a very tense situation in as far the Corona virus is concerned.
So sensitization of professionals has been done for our college of primary care physicians., the Zimbabwe Medical Association and these shall be ongoing, educating and training all our doctors and all our physicians. Case management training is very essential so that by the time any of our doctors interact with a patient who is suspected of coronavirus, they can be able to manage them accordingly.
We have had training again on the 17th February, 2020 at Wilkins Infectious Diseases where we trained a total of 70 health care workers. This is going to continue and we are going to be inviting and bringing forward more trainers of trainers and the flow of staff, they were shown how it is done, how staff have to look after the cases, the set up, isolation facility, the quality and how it should be. The cascading of the training to establish isolation facilities is continuous right through the country. We want each and every hospital to have an isolation room so that if at all they have a case or a suspect, they can be able to handle it then.
The train trainers were drawn from Harare, Kadoma, Mutare and most of the cities in Zimbabwe. These also included the private health institutions, the private hospitals, the private laboratories and this training will be continuous with the support of the national rapid response team and also support from the World Health Organisation (WHO) and NSF. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to indicate that a budget was prepared and submitted to the Ministry of Finance which stands at US$5.2 million, but this will be availed to us in tranches.
We have reconvened a national task force on epidemic prone diseases with the Inter-Agency Coordination Committee today as a follow-up to the one which was convened on the 24th January, 2020. I would also like to indicate that the Chinese Embassy has indicated its willingness to assist us in sprucing up our isolation treatment unit at Wilkins Hospital and all other isolation units. Our port health staff will show information with the Chinese to facilitate follow-up and monitoring. The Embassy will facilitate translation services at the ports of entry and isolation for ease of communication. The Embassy will also show locations where Chinese people are in Zimbabwe so that we can do more follow-up
Zimbabwean students in China are all safe and well taken care of for their day to day needs, including facilitating communication, food and lessons and the Embassy is in contact with our Zimbabwean students. The Chinese borders are not closed but they are discouraging their citizens from travelling to Zimbabwe.
In terms of awareness, this is a continuous process and we have prepared for printing information, education and communication materials for radio, television and other media blitz and job aids to assist medical and laboratory staff. One other issue which we have taken care of Mr. Speaker Sir is that of protecting our staff. All those who are working at the borders – we have ensured that they are well protected.
We are ensuring that all our staff are well trained in terms of protection. We do not want to end up with our own personnel being infected by the coronavirus.
We have job aides, strategic supplies of recommended medicines which are prepositioned. We have personal protective equipment, test kits and other requirements for managing any cases. They must be adequately protected themselves in order that they render the services properly. We have constantly engaged the medial in order to keep the population of Zimbabwe updated as the outbreak of the virus has been evolving.
As a new disease, there is quite a lot that we now know, but there is still a lot that we do not know. My team of experts will continue getting the updates from WHO, the African Union Centre for Disease Control and continue passing on information using the various communication platforms. I want to indicate to the Hon. Members here present that please be weary and be aware of the fact that there is no vaccine yet for the control of Coronavirus or COVID-19. What is available at the moment is as a result of some tests which were carried out by the Chinese and also one of the nations in Asia where they found that the use of the current anti-retrovirals, (ARVs), one specific one called KALETRA which is a combination anti-retroviral which has Lopinavir and ritonavir and also in combination if using combination - with another booster called anti-interferon or an alpha-interferon can be able to reduce or stop the spread of the coronavirus.
So that is the only form of treatment which is there at the moment. There are quite a number of cases who have been saved from this particular combination treatment. At the moment, I want to also indicate that we are lucky that we have that KALETRA available here in Zimbabwe and we have made sure that it is distributed to all our treatment centres. What we are building on is the availability of the booster the alpha-interferon and we should be having it by next week, but with the KALETRA, we can be able to manage the patients with ease.
At the same time, as you saw, we managed to test the candidate from Wilkins and this is because we already acquired the test kits and we have the equipment. We have high caliber test equipment from high caliber manufacturers, high standard equipment for the testing of this virus. So there we are covered and I can assure you everyone. The only problem is that the type of testing platform that we have takes a bit longer. At the moment it takes at least 5 hours before we get the result but it is better than the previous platforms which will take a week. We are awaiting the arrival of the test kits which will take about 15 minutes, just like when we are testing for HIV/AIDs which takes about 15 minutes. Mr. Speaker Sir, that is my statement and I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon Speaker Sir. I want to applaud the Minister of Health and Child Care for a job well done in bringing out the statement. I have three issues that need clarification from the Hon. Minister. Firstly, it is the issue of control of informal entries at the exit from our borders by our people and by extension of this disease control mechanism. What is it he is doing in order to cartel the informal illegal crossing points. My feeling is that whoever enters or exits the border illegally, at some point they will pass through tollgates, which tollgates at some point are asked for accident victim stabilisation centres. It is my view that if the Minister so wishes he could establish detection mechanisms at those ports.
The second issue is, it would be prudent to know kugara nhaka kuona dzevamwe, the origins and causes of this virus so that we know what it is that we need to eat and not to eat in order to preserve ourselves from this corona epidemic and pandemic.
The third issue – I heard the Minister talking about the centre for disease control, the doctors without borders and the other operatives and co-operating partners who help us in times of need. What can these departments further than the US$5.2 million that has been extended as a grant to his health institution do? What is it that they can quickly come into the fore with in order that where there is no existence of this virus we completely seal that place? This country we call Zimbabwe is the only country we have and we will never migrate to Zambia. What are these people together with the World Health Organisation further than the grant doing, aware that a lot of our people are there in the artisanal mining sector? We need to go where they are in order that we protect them. In Chegutu Ward, 400 people died because of the cholera pandemic. I ask that the Hon. Minister respond to the last question that I asked.
HON. BITI: Hon Speaker Sir, I want to acknowledge from the statement by the Minister that there has been no casualty or mortality from this terrible disease - Coronavirus but my point is that we should be grateful to God that no life has been lost rather than to our own systems of preparedness. If you pass through the airport coming from outside Zimbabwe, the medical assistant will ask you where you are coming from. So she will say to you; are you coming from China and your answer is no. Once you say that, there is no other verification that you are coming from China or not. So it is by the grace of God that no one has died. Surely Hon. Speaker, there should be an independent verification of where a person is coming from.
My second point is the issue of our disaster preparedness. In Africa in general, there is a disproportionate number of people who die from lack of preparedness. Look at the number of people who died and were swept away by Cyclone Idai. My recommendation to the Minister is that, given the recent emergence of these epidemics like SARS, ebola and coronavirus it is time that the Republic of Zimbabwe establishes a specialised health department. In America, they have got the CDC which is the Centre for Disease Control. Let us have our own equivalent institution that is mobilised to deal with these unexplained urgent epidemics that has now become the order of the day.
The third thing I would like Government to emphasise on is that these diseases are emanating from unnatural contact between human beings and wildlife. It is almost like nature is imposing revenge on human beings. SARS, you know emerged because human beings were eating bats. Coronavirus is emerging because human beings are eating bats. Ebola emerged because human beings are eating monkeys. I would like to see a conscious programme that there must be a line between human contact and human beings. Penultimately, is the budget allocation. A budget allocation of US$5.2 million, which according to the report has just been disbursed is not good enough. It is petty cash Hon. Speaker, with great respect. You heard the Minister complain that even their tests were taking a week but now they have one that takes 5 hours. It is because of resources. Look at the response of China itself.
In Wuhan provinces, three hospitals have been built in a matter of days and under a month to cater for the disease. What it means is that the Government put resources to combat the disease. We have not put adequate resources.
Lastly Hon. Speaker, on the protection of our citizens in China. We all have relatives; I have got a nephew who is studying in China. It took weeks before the authorities in Zimbabwe through the embassy had collected the names and database of the students that are at that university. I do not think we did enough to protect our students at home just like we are still not doing enough. What are we doing in institutions which are exposed, for instance Chinese restaurants here in Zimbabwe? My submission Hon. Speaker, is that people have not died by the grace of God and it is not by our own positive actions in protecting our people.
I thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir.
Hon. Speaker, Hon. Mashakada says ndakachena. I want to thank him very much – [Laughter.] -
HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Hon Speaker, I want to start by thanking the Hon. Minister for coming but I have two issues that I want to raise. The first thing I appeal through you Hon.
Speaker is that we must have as Hon. Members, a seminar where the
Ministry of Health and Child Care will come to us and explain to Hon. Members what is corona virus so that we can then go to our constituencies and explain. I think the Hon. Minister must also give us 10 000 pamphlets per constituency to go and educate our people because the issue of awareness is critical in any health delivery programme.
Thank you very much.
HON. MARKHAM: Hon. Speaker, I seek three clarifications.
Can the Minister confirm that the only travel restrictions between us and China is the 14 days that people are held in quarantine before they travel and then a self imposed 21 days here in Zimbabwe which leaves everything to the traveler? Hon. Biti mentioned coming through the airport. If a person tells a lie there we are exposed.
The second question I would like to ask is on the Zimbabwean students. Could the Minister give us an idea of how many Zimbabwean students or Zimbabwean nationals are still in China or are in the process of being moved back? Has the Government intervened in any way to get them back here?
My last one is one of a serious nature and we revert to the cross species with animals. The Minister mentioned both domestic and wild animals. My question is - are there any specific species that we know at this stage that are more prone to carrying the virus or is that not researched or found out yet? I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Mr. Speaker, I want clarification. The corona virus is emanating from China but we have Chinese nationals here. I heard that if you eat dogs and pets you might catch the virus. We have Chinese nationals here, so what they are eating here is it not causing the corona virus as well? I want that to be clarified.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for responding in time to the request to give a ministerial statement. My point of clarification, Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): May
you lower your voices Hon. Members.
HON. CHIKWINYA: My point of clarification is on the 3 000 plus, if I heard the Minister correctly.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the Minister is
supposed to respond to the issues that are being raised by Hon. Members and the noise that you are making is disturbing. The Minister cannot hear.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of
clarification is on the 3 000 plus, if I heard the Minister correctly, of people who are on self quarantine. I would want to know what mechanism does the Ministry of Health and Child Care or our
Government have to monitor or to enforce this self quarantine.
The other issue is on the Chinese nationals who are now coming back from China after their new year’s holiday and these are reported to be placing themselves on self quarantine, but Hon. Speaker these Chinese nationals have workers especially domestic workers who handle their plates, wash their clothes and are in contact with these Chinese nationals. What mechanism is there to protect these Zimbabwean nationals who are in contact with the Chinese nationals who are on self quarantine?
The other issue Hon. Speaker, is that the pictures which were sent today by the Permanent Secretary of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services, Mr. Nick Mangwana showing the doctors that handled the suspected lady who was treated at Wilkins show that there was a heavy investment of personal protective equipment which was put into those doctors, but if you look at the staff which is at our borders especially the Robert Mugabe International Airport, the staff which is handling visitors only have a mask, a bib and gloves.
Why are we differentiating people who are exposed to the same? These are people who are in contact with people who are coming from suspected countries but they have a bare minimum of protective equipment while the doctors have got massive protective equipment being given to them. Why are we sacrificing the junior staff which is at our borders? I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May I now give the
opportunity to the Minister to answer the few questions and then I will give another round to you Hon. Members. May you go ahead Hon.
Minister and respond to questions that have been raised by Hon.
Members?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- O. MOYO): Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I am very impressed with the level of questions, the quality of the questions and all that has been asked by all the Members. I think these are very relevant questions. If we start with the issue of the control of our illegal entry points, it is something we have sat down and looked at. I was at Plumtree Border and they told me about the possibilities of other illegal entries with the Mphoengs Border being well managed. It is a small border but well managed. There is also some other ones where people just cross. We have requested at all these borders and they know exactly where these people normally go through, that the immigration authorities working together with the security forces as they have always been doing give us assistance in making sure that we are well served at these particular areas. So, there is high alert in as far as monitoring these borders is concerned. That is a fear which we also had and the solution was the immigration authorities and our security give us that assistance in a much bigger way than they normally do. The Hon. Member was suggesting that we have checks at tollgates. I think if we do that then we will have a big problem, it means that we are now stopping all the travelling Zimbabweans, that is internal but we want the ones from outside to be stopped and checked. It is the borders we have to protect and it is them we have to make full proof. Wherever there is an illegal border, that becomes a porous area of entry.
So, it is the borders that we have to look after and check. This coming week like I said, we are going to the northern borders and I have also heard that they might be some other porosity in that area, so we will be going with the Resident Ministers of Mashonaland West and Central to go and check.
The origins of corona and what we should not eat, it is correct from the information that we got from the World Health Organisation and also from the Chinese authorities – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I think this is very useful information...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon.
Members, can you please lower your voices.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: I think this is very useful information. We have to be obviously weary of the fact that the WHO and the Chinese authorities themselves managed to give out information and it had to come out of them. It was the sea food market where it all started. All the wet areas which were affected and we saw from the information which was coming out, consumption of the most unusual animals, this is where it all started and it was very clear that the bats, the snakes were mentioned and we also saw in the videos all the other various unusual animals which are consumed in that part of the world.
However, the most important thing is that this virus originated from animals rather than from human beings. So, it is a zoonotic virus.
We got information from the CDC, World Health Organisation,
UNICEF and we have managed to secure from our Government RTGS5.2 million and we feel that it might not be enough. This is a good starting point though and I appreciate that fact that the Members who are talking in terms of budgeting improvements are all talking in terms of making sure that we have a better budget so that we are well protected and well prepared.
So, this is highly appreciated and we have had support from UNICEF, they are going to help us in terms of the media reporting, information, education and communication, mechanisms and WHO are going to be helping us in terms of the protective equipment. The
Chinese Government itself are going to be helping us with the setting up or upgrading of the Wilkins Hospital in Harare and Thorngrove Hospital in Bulawayo. So we appreciate what we have at the moment.
The issue that we do not have any deaths at the moment, we thank God that we are all alive. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is a reality and we all have to pray to God that this thing does not come to Zimbabwe. Kana tikasanamata hama dzangu - I can hear some Hon. Member making noise. Hon. Members, I plead with you this is a very serious topic. I do not want to throw fear in you but you are forcing me to throw fear in you, to shock you, this is a shocking disease. Like now we are all sitting here, if one of us catches this disease, it will just spread like wild fire. If you do not want to listen to what we are saying, please I beg you to
listen.
We all have to educate our population, if you do not know what we are talking about; you will not be able to educate our population. We all need it. This is a serious disease because haisi yekuti unonorova munhu okuvara. It is a contagious disease. If the person breathes near you, the pathogens will stay on your face and if you touch your face with your hands and then touch anything to eat, the virus will then enter into your body through food and you will contract the disease. This disease has a high mortality rate and the drug that is used to cure this disease is very painful to take. So, we all have to be very careful Hon. Members –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order!
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Let us stop this issue of travelling to China completely. No travelling to China please at this stage, stay in your country and stop shopping. Let us stay in our country; it is by God’s grace that we do not have it here. I was praying last night about that woman who was admitted at Wilkins Hospital that she does not turn out to be positive and by God’s grace she turned out to be negative. So, we are lucky and this is why you have seen me personally going to the borders. I will not leave any stone unturned and when I get to the borders, I will make sure that I educate everyone and it has to be done like that. We want to make sure that that border – taking for instance
Beitbridge border, I told them that if they are going to be the first ones, because there is no border that should be the first ones to bring in that coronavirus. So, I have challenged every border and every person who works at the border not just health personnel but the immigration, the police, the soldiers and everyone who works at the border has to wake up. We all have to remind each other when someone is doing the wrong thing. we do not want to allow someone who has got a fever to come into Zimbabwe without being stopped and that is exactly how we managed to pick up the case at the airport the day before yesterday. It is a serious issue which we have to put a lot of respect and we are all going to monitor each other’s performance wherever we are. We pray that this scourge will not enter into Zimbabwe and it will not enter if we all cooperate with each other.
All the questions you have posed today are part of helping each other to make sure that we have a full proof system. This is not a time when we should be challenging each other. It is a time when we have to advise each other. I am very grateful that I have heard so many useful comments coming from Hon. Members, irrespective of the political divide giving me all sorts of suggestions, which is good; we have to protect our lives as Zimbabweans, that is key irrespective of whichever party you belong to. It is our health and our survival to be able to carry on.
Yes Hon. Member, you were talking about establishing a CDC similar facility here in Zimbabwe. I want to indicate to you that what we
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon.
Members, you are now forcing me to do things that I do not enjoy. I will send you out.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: We are calling them national microbiology reference laboratory at the Sally Mugabe hospital there – that is our equivalent to the CDC but we need to improve it. That is a level free laboratory. To get into that facility, you will have to be fully masked because that is where they deal with all these deadly viruses and bacteria. We have that one but it needs to be spruced up. We are working together with CDC Africa to see that they also upgrade our
facility.
We also have been carrying out simulations and the simulations we were carrying out before we knew about this Coronavirus were based on Ebola. We were saying, let us just simulate an exercise; we assume that we have two or three cases of people who have come into our country with Ebola, what do we do? So we did that simulation exercise and it was very successful. It helps us to be able to put up the system that we have now for the Coronavirus. We have also done a similar one for the Coronavirus. I have also participated in it at the Wilkins hospital.
The issue regarding contact with animals, I will not be able to tell you not to touch your animals but I will be able to say to you, let us not get into the habit of consuming like what happened in China. It was through consumption of these unusual animals like bats, snakes, rats or mbeva. Let us desist from that type of African sausages as we call them. I can only suggest that for a fact, this Coronavirus emanated from animals and the type of animals that we were shown in China, if there is anyone who indulges in the consumption of similar animals, we strongly recommend that they stop it with immediate effect; otherwise we will end up with problems. Let it not come from Zimbabwe but let us protect Zimbabwe from bringing it in.
Protection of our students in China – yes, we immediately got in touch with our Embassy. The process took a bit longer but eventually, the list of all the students was created. Our Embassy is in continuous contact with all these students and I also got a cousin who is in China who has advised me that the Embassy is in continuous contact with them. The Ambassador is very keen to make sure that he does not lose not even one of his students. So far, let us keep our fingers crossed for our Zimbabwean students so that they can stay virus free.
Hon. Mudarikwa was talking about the awareness – yes we are going to be personally inviting the Hon. Members just like what we did with HIV/AIDS. We are also going to entice the Parliamentary Committee on Health to also take this as an item on their agenda on a continuous basis so that we can keep everyone informed. We want everyone to be fully aware and knowledgeable about the various symptoms, how to protect themselves and so on. UNICEF is also working with us in preparing pamphlets for us. At this stage, I also want to indicate that we have had some corporates who have come forward like ZIMPLATS who have indicated that they are willing to support us by coming up with bill boards, pamphlets and videos. They have already started on that together with Mimosa.
Mimosa has actually purchased new themodetectors for us and these are going to be placed at our airports and all our ground ports. This is going to happen on Monday. They are going to hand over the equipment on Monday at R.G. Mugabe Airport. It is for real and it is happening.
Student numbers are almost at 2000 that have come through from China. We are monitoring them on a continuous basis. In each province, we have several health environment officers who are going round making sure that these candidates are well followed up on a daily basis. Let me give you one example for your satisfaction. A candidate arrives at Plumtree Border and they are not stopping in Plumtree town but have to go to Harare. As soon as they are checked at Plumtree Border and we know that they are coming from an infected area and they are going to be living in Harare, before they even leave the border, number one; we ensure that the address that they have been given is correct. We are working together, immigration and port health. They will not proceed until that address is verified. We are being much more stringent now.
Secondly, the port health authorities contact their counterparts in Harare where that person is going to be living. From the next day, they will be arriving at their house and making sure that their temperatures are perfect and they are also educating the relatives so that contact is reduced.
There is one question which I was asked by one Hon. Member outside Parliament. They said if you are saying that the candidate has come from China and they are coming to live with their relatives; are they not risking their relatives into contracting the Coronavirus and the answer was; if we allow the candidate coming from China to roam the streets, it is more risky and we have what we call contact tracing. It will be difficult to contact trace if the candidate was roaming the street and therefore self quarantine allows that candidate to be in contact with very few people. It improves our surveillance tactics. That is the reason why we have those restrictions.
There is the issue regarding kudya imbwa kungaitisa Corona here.
I think the best answer would be ingoregai kudya imbwa dzacho. Ngatidziregerei. Sevanhu vemuZimbabwe hatijairi kudya imbwa – [AN HON. MEMBER: Tinodya muriwo nemapotato.] – Hongu.
I think I have also answered Hon. Chikwinya’s question regarding self quarantine and numbers. In terms of the numbers, there are 3027 who have entered Zimbabwe so far from the affected countries and we are continuing to follow them up on daily basis - like I was indicating. The numbers are naturally reducing as the number of days that they have been surveyed is also reaching the 21 days. By the way, I also want to show you that we have been extremely stringent in Zimbabwe – in other countries, it is 14 days but here we have said 21 days, that is how stringent we are being.
Contact of Zimbabwe and Chinese on self quarantine yes, I have also been asked by other Hon. Members outside the august House. We have made sure that all those Chinese personnel who have returned to their jobs, with the support of the Chinese Embassy, we have made sure that they really self-quarantine. In some places we have even received from the workers at the mines - for instance who were worried about this particular Chinese individual being locked up in a particular room and not coming out. So the Chinese Embassy are being very strict about it because it is also in their interest to make sure that none of their nationals comes out to be Coronavirus positive. So they are giving us as much support as possible.
They are even seconding their Chinese doctors who are here. They have seconded Chinese doctors to us and it makes it easy for us to be able to communicate with them. The 12 Chinese doctors who are here and are based at Parirenyatwa Hospital - three of them are participating in this exercise. There have been pictures of doctors who are well protected and worried about the protection of staff at the airport. If you go to the airport today, you will find that all our staff are well protected. We have made sure that they have adequate face protection and also space suits. We have given our staff space suits because we wanted to make sure that they are protected. Like I said during my presentation, we do not want a situation where a member of staff will contract the Coronavirus. We have not only stopped at the port health staff but also everyone who works in the vicinity of where the travelers are passing through, and that includes the Immigration officials.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think that I have tried to respond to all the questions. I hope that it is to your satisfaction. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I would like to
thank the Hon. Minister for his statement. I also want to thank him for coming out candidly that this is a very serious disease but honestly the 21 day self-quarantine that we are imposing on the Chinese. I believe is handling them with kids gloves because the Executive can still do more.
Let us put them somewhere central where we can monitor them. Those who are already in the country and then why not stop those – the other countries in the region are already stopping them for a certain period, from entering their borders. So while the Executive is inviting us Mr. Speaker Sir, to treat this seriously, we are also inviting them to react in the same serious manner. In fact, I want to test this with the Hon. Minister, there is a belief that because our own borders are so porous, a lot of Chinese nationals who are working within the SADC are now landing in Zimbabwe and waiting here so that when the South African borders open for them – they then go back there. So, I would like to invite the Hon. Minister and the Executive to review this 21 day self-quarantine.
When we went to study outside the country Hon. Speaker because we were at the epicenter of HIV. They would test us here, take our blood samples out there and stop us from visiting their countries. Why are we not doing this for a six months period? Then I want to track the candidate that the Hon. Minister was talking about. Is there a consideration to hold this woman for an extended period? Do we know anything about those people who travelled on the same plane with her? You have admitted Hon. Minister that we do not have a Level 4 laboratory suitable for handling dangerous pathogens such as Corona and Ebola viruses. Given that situation, where did we test the samples from this particular candidate that we are tracking?
Then one other thing that you mention was that if someone came through the Plumtree border surveillance would be able to trace them to an address in Harare. What happens, Hon. Minister, if they decided to take a detour and stopped in Bulawayo or Makokoba, for instance, and stayed there for three to four days or in a hotel? I ask these questions because most of the Hon. Members here are virtually hotel animals and we see a lot of Chinese nationals in the hotels. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Order,
order Hon. Members. There is a special request from the Hon. Minister that he would want to go and address the Senate as well. Please may we give him the opportunity to respond so that he may move to the other House? Sorry about that Hon. Members.
HON. DR. O. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, yes I hear the Hon. Member very clearly but I have already indicated that with regard to …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, may we listen to
the Hon. Minister please?
HON. DR. O. MOYO: With regard to the 21 days and the protocol that we are observing at the moment requires that before the candidates travel from China – they would have to produce a certificate of clearance from the Chinese health authorities and for them to be able to get that certificate, they would have spent a minimum of 14 days under observation in China.
So when they come here, they cannot board the plane when they are positive but only if they are negative can they board the plane in the same manner as this candidate that we received at the Robert Mugabe International Airport – so that is being stringent at that end. On this end, we are also being stringent by making sure that we even go 21 days which is seven days more than the particular place of origin. Do not forget that this is someone who is negative – they have tested negative. Therefore, it is still the same thing for the classic cases that we are going to be seeing, we shall monitor them. It is an issue of monitoring and the main issue here is the fever. If they do not have the fever, they do not have to be detained as you are suggesting. It is only if they have a fever. If they arrive at the airport and they have a fever that is when we detain them. If they have the symptoms, we detain them and if they are coming from that region which is affected we make sure that 21 days of self quarantine is observed. I think that is fair enough.
The diversion from the borders that could happen, someone could be travelling to Harare via Bulawayo. That is an issue which honestly we cannot be able to control and we cannot be able to say to an individual traveller, you must not stop on the route that you are going through to your final destination. That will be unfair. The most important thing is that on the next day, they must be observed.
In actual fact, your suggestion requires that that individual be honest with us and be able to tell us that they will be stopping in Bulawayo and to do that, our officers will be able to check on them while they are in Bulawayo. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Speaker, I
move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 3 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 4 has been disposed of.
SECOND READING
INTERNATIONAL TREATIES BILL [H. B. 10, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir, I rise to give my second reading speech on the International Treaties Bill and Hon. Speaker Sir, I bring this most important Bill, required to be enacted not only because our Constitution mandates it in Section 327, but also because our values as a people and as a member of the international community of nations demands it.
For a long time our country was an outcast of the international community of nations under the illegal colonial regime that declared so called independence in 1965. That regime pretended to be a sovereign nation while existing in defiance of internal law and the norms and international customary law. Thanks to the international community of nations, and in particular to our brothers and sisters in the then
Organisation of African Unity (now the African Union), our people’s long and bitter struggle for justice, liberty and independence was brought to an earlier conclusion than perhaps many of us could have hoped in the face of a regime determined to keep us oppressed for the sake of a selfish few.
In the wake of our liberation in 1980, we naturally gave priority to our internal reconstruction and reconciliation needs and to reshaping our domestic order. In those early years there was little done in the way of constructing a legal framework for engagement with the international community of nations. It was only in 1987 with the passage of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment No (7) Act, that a new Section (section 111B) was added to the old Constitution to approved for the manner in which international agreements and conventions were to be approved by Parliament before ratification by the President.
Even then, it was uncertain whether approval and ratification of treaties was in itself sufficient to domesticate those treaties, that is to say, to treat them as part of our domestic law which our courts had to take judicial notice of. The later doctrine is known in international law as the Doctrine of Incorporation. The alternative doctrine known as the Doctrine of Transformation, which is favoured by most Common Law jurisdication of a treaty by the enactment of domestic legislation setting out modalities of how that treaty is to be implemented domestically (unless the treaty in question was “self-executing”).
This conflict of doctrines was only resolved in 1993 with the enactment of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment 9No. 12) Act: With effect from 1 November, 1993, when this Act came into force, the common law position regarding the inception of international treaties in the domestic sphere, that is to say the Doctrine of Transformation, was embodied in the new section of the old Constitution. The benefits of international law ought to be obvious to us all, but let us briefly rehearse them in case any reminder is needed. I am quoting here from a United Nations fact sheet dated 2008:
“Without it, there could be chaos. International law sets up a framework based on States as the principal actors in the international legal system, and it defines their legal responsibilities in their conduct with each other, and, within State boundaries, with their treatment of individuals. Its domain encompasses human rights, disarmament, internal crime, refugees, migration, problems of nationality, the treatment of prisoners, the use of force, and the conduct of war, among others. It also regulates the global commons, such as the environment, sustainable development, international waters, outer space, global communications and world trade.”
The details of the Bill before you are adequately set out in the Explanatory Memorandum. It will establish a uniform procedure for the consideration and approval of international treaties by the Cabinet and parliament before their ratification by the President, and for their publication after their ratification or, in some cases, before their ratification. One of the main mischief’s sought to be remedied by this Bill is that many international treaties having far-reaching consequences for our domestic law are concluded without he courts or the public having due notice of those treaties by way of their official publication. Even where official publication of the treaty is not possible or desirable for any reason, some official notice of the fact of its existence and ratification should be made for the benefit of the public. This Bill seeks to provide a mechanism for the publication or notification of such treaties.
Hon. Members, this Bill will firmly lodge our country as a valued, reliable and respected member in the International Community of Nations. Many, I can even say almost all, of those nations have great goodwill towards us and harbour high expectations of our participation as a member of their community. We already as you know participate in many peace keeping endevours around the globe under the auspices of the United Nations. Let us not fail them Mr. Speaker. I urge you to support and pass this law whole heartedly. I so submit Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. K. PARADZA:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The International Treaties Bill [H. B. 10, 2019] was gazetted on 6th
September 2019. Consequently, the Bill stood referred to the Portfolio
Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade compelling the Committee to discharge its scrutinising function so as to make essential recommendations. The Bill seeks to establish a uniform procedure for the consideration and approval of international treaties by Cabinet and Parliament before ratification by the President, and for their publication after their ratification or in some cases, before their ratification. As such, my Committee resolved to conduct consultative meetings with the relevant stakeholders.
2.0 METHODOLOGY
The Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs and International
Trade, held a consultative meeting on the International Treaties Bill
(HB.10, 2019) on the 22nd of October 2019 in the Senate Chamber.
Unlike other Bills that are subjected to public consultations where
Parliament embarks on a nationwide outreach programme, the
International Treaties Bill was different. This is so because it is a technical Bill that required a specific target group of stakeholders, hence the Committee opted to concentrate on stakeholders that are relevant to this Bill. The Committee also got submissions from all interested stakeholders. Those who participated in both exercises include representatives from academic institutions (universities), civic society groups, government departments as well as individuals. All these efforts were pursuant to Section 141 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which
states that:
“Parliament must ensure that interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament, unless such consultation is inappropriate or impracticable”
It should be highlighted that through both oral and written submissions, the International Treaties Bill was welcomed. However, some areas of concern were raised and these needs to be corrected, amended or be added as shall be noted in this report.
3.0 PROPOSALS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE BILL AND
AMENDMENTS TO BE MADE THEREIN.
- The memorandum suggests that the Bill is intended to establish a uniform procedure for the consideration and approval of international treaties by the Cabinet and Parliament before their ratification by the President, and for their publication after their ratification or in some cases, before their ratification. It is however, not clear whether the Bill is speaking to uniformity in the context of national law or international law. If it is in relation to national law, it is still not very clear what the draftsmen meant by, ‘a uniform procedure.’ Stakeholders did not see the need for such a uniform procedure. Rather, they felt that there should be just a procedure and/or guideline detailing the steps that have to be followed when concluding or ratifying international legal agreements. If the envisaged uniformity is in relation to international law and State practice, it should be stressed that there exists dissimilarity in the constitutional requirements of countries and hence no absolute uniformity in the procedures for the conclusion of international agreements is possible and attainable at the international level. Be that as it may, relative uniformity can still be attained. Through its deliberations, the Committee felt that it is noble to come up with general guidelines that will cover all the treaties and the whole process.
- The memorandum also suggests that one of the main ‘mischiefs’ sought to be remedied by this Bill is that many international treaties having far-reaching consequences for our domestic law are concluded without the courts or the public having due notice of those treaties by way of their official publication. Upon reference to the provisions of the Bill however, one can discern that the Bill is silent on the input of the courts and/or the public in this whole process. Publication will serve no purpose if courts of law and the public have no role to play or any say regarding the domestication or otherwise of the treaties or agreements concerned. Publication should not be a mere formality regarding the existence of the treaties. Rather, it should be meant to elicit the views of the generality of the public and this will help in determining whether or not the government should proceed and domesticate the instruments in question. The Committee however agreed that there should be separation of powers hence the courts should not be part of the law-making process.
- Whereas the Preamble to the Bill quotes sections 34 and 327 of the Constitution which provide that most international treaties require the approval of Parliament, it erroneously made reference to section 111B (1) of which there is no such provision under the new Constitution of Zimbabwe. It should be noted that the whole of section 111 under the new Constitution of Zimbabwe talks of the procedure for waging war; the heading is ‘war and peace’ and there is no link whatsoever with the conclusion of international treaties which is the primary focus of the International Treaties Bill. The Committee strongly concurred with this submission and assumed that maybe the draftsmen of this Bill could have erroneously factored in this section 111B by drafting this Bill with the provisions of the old Lancaster House Constitution in mind. We assume so because; section 111B of the Lancaster House Constitution speaks to the domestication of international legal instruments.
- Definitions Section
Definition of the term “Conclusion”
In the Bill, the term “conclusion” refers to the whole process of Cabinet and Parliamentary approval, ratification of and accession to treaties by the President. This is problematic in two respects. First, this definition contradicts the understanding of the term “conclude a treaty” under international law. Under international law, “conclude a treaty” refers to the process of negotiation of treaties by states and the coming of such treaties to force internationally. Clearly under international law, conclusion of a treaty is not extended to domestic processes; it is an action by states and their representatives in the international system.
Second, the definition contradicts the meaning of “conclude” envisaged
in section 327 of the Constitution.
The meaning in section 327 is in tandem with the international law understanding of the term “conclude a treaty”. Section 327 only makes reference to the term “conclude” at the first moment the State comes into contact with such treaty, that is when the President or relevant officials acting under his authority sign it or participate in its negotiations.
Unsurprisingly, the Constitution does not make reference to the term
“conclude” anywhere else. It actually prefers to use the relevant terms such as domesticate, ratify, approve where they are applied appropriately. In this regard, the definition must be revisited guided by states’ practice and the customary understanding of the term in
international law.
- On Clause 4 of the Bill, it provides that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs shall be the principal custodian and principal national depositary of all international treaties, something that the Committee agreed to.
However, both the Committee and the stakeholders felt that it is not clear from the reading of section 4 whether the same Ministry (of
Foreign Affairs) is the negotiating Ministry for all international treaties. Stakeholders are of the view that there is need to separate the general responsibility over the negotiation of international treaties from the deposit of instruments of ratification. Whereas the deposit of instruments of ratification should always be the responsibility of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the negotiation and decision on whether or not to ratify a treaty should be the preserve of the Ministry/ or department responsible for the subject matter of the agreement in question. The Committee strongly implore the Zimbabwean government to take a leaf from the Zambian experience whereby the Minister responsible for the subject matter of the international agreement is charged with the responsibility to consider whether it is in the best interests of the State to ratify the international agreement in instances where the question of ratification of an international agreement arises.
- On Clause 4 (b) (ii), role of Parliament, the provision obligates the negotiating Ministry to take certain steps after approval by Cabinet.
Specially, the negotiating Ministry must secure the approval of the treaty by Parliament. It was submitted that the phrase, “to secure its approval by Parliament” to be substituted with the phrase “to ensure
Parliamentary consideration” in accordance with the Constitution. Parliament has power to approve or disapprove, and this must be made clear in the provision. As it stands, the Committee feels that the provision seems to suggest that what Parliament can only do is to approve the treaty (rubber stamping) without any power to disapprove. This also should be applied on Clause 7 (2) which stakeholders recommended, the phrase “securing the approval of
Parliament” with “subjecting the treaty to Parliamentary considerations”.
- In line with international and contemporary best practices, on Clause 5, Composition of the Public Agreements Advisory Committee, it is advised that a senior expert or professor of international law in Zimbabwe is included. This enriches the Committee. The Committee suggested that such person may be recommended by the Law Society of Zimbabwe or an Association of Law Teachers, whichever may be the case.
- On clause 6 (3), upon receipt of a draft treaty, the Public Agreements Advisory Committee (PAAC) can make different recommendations. Whilst Clause 6 (3) (a) and (b) are clear, Clause 6 (3) (c) and (d) are vague and must be revised. Under Clause 6 (3) (a) and (b), the recommendation is made to negotiating Ministry, which will act upon the recommendation, or to the negotiating Ministry that the treaty be submitted to the Attorney General’s office for redrafting. In addition, this section is vague. Under Clause 6 (3) (c) PAAC can recommend to the Minister and the negotiating Ministry that the treaty be approved, with alterations if any by the President and Cabinet. The confusion here is that the action of approving is the responsibility of Cabinet and the President, yet the recommendation that the treaty be approved is going to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the negotiating Ministry which have no power to approve. The long and winding route is impossible to
explain and causes vagueness.
- It is submitted that Clause 7(1) of the Bill speaks to the ability of
PAAC to recommend publication of treaty before its approval by Parliament if “in this opinion, the importance of the treaty merits it course”. This provision seems unqualified in that it does not provide the nature of cases or the guidelines by which PAAC can objectively consider and decide the kind of treaties that can be put for publication. Secondly, this provision is not clear on its impact on the general procedure that any other treaty that is not bestowed such importance will follow. This provision should rather outline the exceptional cases where the provision is applicable and what effect if any it has on the normal process that other treaties are required to follow. The Committee strongly feel that Parliament should participate in the process that leads to the domestication of any treaty, protocol or convention in line with
section 327 of the Constitution.
- The use of the terms “ratification” and “accession” is also questionable. The Bill suggests that the process of ratification and accession is limited to the President. These actions can only be done by the President after approval by Cabinet and Parliament. The loose use of these words in this manner is extremely confusing. Terms with a particular legal meaning should be used in a manner that conveys such meaning. Under international law, ratification refers to the whole process involving Parliament and the Executive in domestication of treaties. Ratification is not understood as the exclusive preserve of the
President as conveyed in the Bill. • The term “ratification” be used and applied as referring to the dual actions of both the Parliament and President.
- The use of the term “approved” is not recommended. This is because the term has no place in the legal dictionary or jurisprudence or international treaty law. More worryingly, it is often applied in a manner that suggests that when a treaty is brought before Parliament, Parliament has no other option but to approve. Similarly, the loose use of the term
“accession” is very inappropriate. Accession is a legal term in international law that refers to the process by which a State which did not formally sign a treaty before now formally accept its provisions, or after the treaty enters into force. For instance, Zimbabwe accedes to treaties entered into by Rhodesia. Further, Zimbabwe can accede to a treaty after its conclusion but before it enters into force. Accordingly, it was suggested that:
- Clause 7(4) indirectly distinguishes the types of international agreements which can come into force via the methods contemplated by the Bill. The two treaty categories that seem to be envisaged by the executive are; one which falls within the prerogative of the President and another that does not. However, the whole Bill does not specifically categorise these treaties and it gives a general impression that all international treaties are subject to the same process. The downfall on the failure by the Bill to explicitly state and/or distinguish the two categories of the treaties is that very few or no treaties will fall within the reach of Cabinet or Parliament. Treaties that are meant to be duly considered by Parliament can be sidelined in the name of falling under the President’s prerogative. Inevitably, lack of clarity might demean the purpose and function of the International Treaties Bill.
- Clause 7 (4) extends providing a President with the sole discretion of whether to publish or not the statutory instrument that falls under the prerogative category. There is a chance that this power given to a President can have the effect of eclipsing the role of the PAAC, Cabinet and Parliament. Essentially, the whole purpose of this Bill can potentially be undermined. The Bill might not end up serving the mischief it seeks to cure as stated on the Memorandum of the Bill. The Committee, however feels that President should publish such a statutory instrument after consulting Parliament and getting its approval.
- Clause 7 (8) makes provision for PAAC to elect treaties which it deems desirable for it to publish on the basis of size of treaty and good reason. The Act does not define “what exactly matters about the size and what constitutes good reason”. It is submitted that this provision equips PAAC with too much room to exercise discretion on matters that could essentially defeat the purposes of establishing the International Treaties Bill altogether. In addition, the Committee noted that if this provision is left like this, it is going to infringe and violate other rights and freedoms like access to information, and as such no matter the size, PAAC should publish all treaties.
- Furthermore, it is submitted that at Clause 8 (2), it reads “PAAC may, at its own initiative publish the treaties list by notice in the
Gazette.” The diction of this provision is not firmly grounded. It should be clear whether or not PAAC has a responsibility to publish treaties and when they are required to do so. The language used does not give PAAC any obligation yet it is best placed to publish publicly the treaties list. In such an event, there is no accountability measure and decades pass by with the country not having a treaties list. Therefore, the Committee strongly noted the need to have roles and responsibility should be clearly
stated.
- Clause 9 which talks of the Bill provides that Clause 7 (3), (4), (5), (6) and (7) applies to every international treaty that was concluded before the date of commencement of this Act. In essence, this idea of retrospective application flies in the face of the presumption of retrospectivity. When laws are made, they are meant to apply progressively (from date of promulgation or enactment going into the
future) and not in retrospect.
- It is also not clear whether the procedures for ratification is the same process that has to be followed upon withdrawal from an international agreement and whether publication in the case of withdrawal is also a must as is the case with accession. Likewise, the Committee noted that, it is not clear whether or not the Ministry responsible of ratification or deposit is the same Ministry that is responsible for withdrawal from an international agreement. As such, it was suggested that Parliament should also be involved in the processes
that leads to withdrawal.
- In reading the whole Bill, there is no distinction with consideration to execution of bilateral and multi-lateral treaties with regards to the different levels of confidentiality that comes with these treaties. This distinction is important except if it is anticipated that all highly confidential treaties fall within the executive prerogative. However, if the latter is the assumed position, challenges will arise as the purpose of the Bill itself would be undermined.
- In addition, matters relating to how urgent treaties ought to be treated and the process they follow is not clearly outlined. Examples of such include treaties related to matters of defence, peace and those whose ratification are dependent on other countries in the realm of international relations.
- The Bill also does not provide a clear outline on what is required by a negotiating Ministry to present a treaty under negotiation to PAAC, Cabinet and Parliament. It is essential that the following elements be duly considered and be clearly stated when tabling any treaty for negotiation, the negotiating party should prove the following:
- reasons for being party to the treaty;
- any advantages and disadvantages for the treaty entering into force in;
- obligations which would be imposed on Zimbabwe by the treaty;
- any economic, social and environmental effects of the treaty, of the treaty entering in force in respect of Zimbabwe, and of the treaty not entering in force in respect of Zimbabwe;
- the costs associated with compliance of the treaty;
- the likely effects of any subsequent protocols to the treaty;
- measures which could or should be adopted to implement the
treaty and;
- the intentions of the government in relation to such measures, including legislation.
Despite this Bill being a welcome development, it is submitted that there are certain areas that still need clarity a few of these areas include:
- the provision of an outline on the nature of cases that shall fall within scope of this Bill;
- what constitutes uniform process;
- on issues relating to unfretted discretion granted to PAAC and to a
President in certain instances;
- lack of provision which sets out withdrawal from the treaties;
- inconsistencies on custodianship of the treaty after ratification;
- Inadequacies of the Bill in providing guidance to PAAC and the negotiating Ministry in presenting treaties under negotiation and other related matters.
- It is submitted that it is essential for the highlighted challenges to be addressed to enable the Bill to serve its purpose and to ensure the smooth implementation of the said Bill.
- Reference to “depositary of any treaty” on Clause 9 (2) should be corrected to refer to,
“depository of a treaty…”
Committee Recommendations.
The Committee recommend that:
- The Bill should come up with a simple and flexible guideline for the process of ratification and domestication of any treaty, protocol or convention.
- There should be separation of powers when conducting the whole process leading to domestication of treaties. The courts should not be involved.
- The Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be represented whenever there are negotiations taking place.
- Parliament should have power to approve and reject (disapprove) any treaty brought before it.
- Law Society of Zimbabwe should be involved in recommending a senior legal expert to be part of the PAAC.
- Clause 7 (1) be amended to make it mandatory for any treaty despite its size and importance to be approved first by Parliament before publication. As it stands, the clause is ultra vires the Constitution.
- The process leading to the domestication of treaties, protocols and conventions should be a responsibility of both Parliament and President as opposed to the provisions in Clause 7 (4).
- The treaty/protocol/convention withdrawal process should also involve Parliament.
- Treaties/protocols/conventions should be mandatorily published in all the nationally recognised languages of Zimbabwe.
- All treaties of all sizes and importance should be subjected to some form of public or stakeholder consultations.
Conclusion.
The International Treaties Bill was welcomed by all stakeholders stretching from government ministries and departments, civil society organisations, academic intuitions and individuals. This is so because the country was lacking a guideline to facilitate the ratification and domestication of international treaties leading to a situation where we have 36 or more treaties, protocols and conventions that have been signed but not domesticated. Therefore, the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade appeals to the executive to adopt this principle, “WHY SIGN IF WE CANNOT COMPLY”.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I rise to
add my voice on this debate regarding the International Treaties Bill. It is very clear Mr. Chairman, that Zimbabwe is part of the community of nations and therefore we have to abide by the international law as specified in the various international treaties and protocols that we accede to from time to time.
My question to the Minister is, is that what is the mischief that the Bill seeks to address because in this Parliament we have been approving or ratifying treaties. We have been approving and ratifying conventions without any problems so what is the mischief that this Bill wants to cure at this material time.
Mr. Chairman, I sense that this Bill wants to take away the power of Parliament, the oversight role of Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Sorry Hon. Member, my
position is now Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Mr. Speaker, I sense that this Bill wants to take the powers of Parliament from ratifying and domesticating these international treaties. This Bill seeks to give the Executive the powers to negotiate international treaties, ratify international treaties and domesticate those treaties without the involvement of Parliament. Why do they want to bypass Parliament and yet our role is law making, it is a legislative role. So, I think the separation of powers should be maintained such that Parliament retains the power to ratify and domesticate all treaties and protocols but this Bill wants to take that power from Parliament and give it to the Executive, I stand to be guided.
I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My contribution
is that it should be the responsibility of the relevant Ministry to lead in the negotiations and for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to facilitate in the negotiations. This makes a lot of sense because it is the content of the treaty that is important and a well informed responsible Ministry should take the lead. Most of the times we fail to even domesticate our laws and the international treaties because the knowledge and the understanding will not be there in the responsible Ministry.
As a result, you will find we have got a lot of treaties that we were assigned to quite a long time ago which are still lying in the offices which have not been ratified. Also the domestication process and ratifying of these international treaties are very, very important and Parliament must be involved. The ratification itself Mr. Speaker should be a well coordinated effort between the Executive and the legislature.
Mr. Speaker, the President cannot negotiate any international treaty, sign the international treaty and then do the ratification of any international treaty. It is important that, it must be consented to by a certain number of Parliamentarians. In actual fact Mr. Speaker, within the Bill, there must be a provision where it states that for a treaty to be ratified, a certain number of Members of Parliament must consent to that Bill because when you negotiate a treaty, you are negotiating a treaty on behalf of the people of Zimbabwe and because of the system that we have where we have got the Legislature and the Executive for very good reasons and also the Judiciary, it is because we want these three arms to check on each other. So, it is important that whenever a treaty is signed to by His Excellency, the President or by anyone who would have been assigned by the President to do so, it must come to Parliament. As Hon. Mashakada has said we have been doing this and this is an obvious requirement.
It is like something that is common but in most cases, you find common knowledge that it is not very common. As a result, you find people trying to do some mischievous things on the pretex that they are going to correct what could have been abnormal. I think the requirement that Parliament approves and ratifies these treaties is important and it still should remain as it is. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. K. PARADZA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. Tomorrow is a very important holiday where we celebrate our youths and we also celebrate it as the birthday of our former icon and yesteryear President, Cde. R. G. Mugabe. I therefore, want Hon.
Members to travel well and enjoy the day tomorrow. I move that the House do now adjourn.
The House adjourned at Four Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 20th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
FEES FOR THE PATRIOTS SPORTS CLUB
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to inform the
Hon. Senators that the Secretary General of the Parliament Sports Club, the Patriots, wishes to inform all Senators who are interested in joining the club to pay their joining fees to Mr. Nyamuramba, in office Number 4, Pax House, Third floor, South Wing, on or before 28th February,
- This will enable the procurement of Members’ official tracksuits through Tobacco Industries Marketing Board (TIMB).
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President …
ATE: I think several times I
have tried to warn you that you do not just start talking. You stand up then I recognise you. Recognising you means I am allowing you to talk.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President, I am sorry.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You can proceed.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Madam President for allowing
me to talk. I have a point of order. I believe I need some education and education normally helps other people that might not understand some of the things that we are doing. The education that I need is, we have a lot of motions that we debate in this House but at the end of the day nothing comes out of that. The motions would be directed to a particular ministry. Twenty one days come and the motion lapse and is winded up and the minister has not replied. That is what I have been seeing. I believe that the Ministers must reply. Presently we do not know the outcome of those motions. A lot of motions have gone through this House and no minister has responded. I think that is the education that I need and from your nodding of your head, it means I am right.
ATE: Thank you Hon.
Senator. I think I was agreeing with you. If we may use this time to ask the Leader of the House to enlighten us what is taking place so that we can proceed.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. It is very correct to say that if there is a motion, before it is wound up, the responsible minister has to come and address the issues that would have been debated. I have communicated this to my colleague ministers to say that we need to respond to motions. The President has also told us that it is a must, we must do that.
Perhaps from Parliament Administration, what I can request, so that you support my argument is to remind ministers when motions are due for responding so that they can come and respond. I apologise and it is a consideration that we will pursue and ensure that it is done. I thank you.
ATE: Thank you Hon. Minister but for us as Senators or Members of Parliament to remind ministers, do you think they forget and they are supposed to be reminded? The administration is doing it on our behalf. When we are in this House, the administration cannot answer you, it is us who talk on their behalf. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – The President has reminded them himself that they are supposed to respond to motions. It is this House which will have debated those motions, what else do you think the Members of Parliament should do? Anyway as you have admitted I think together we are going to put an effort so that they come and respond.
I would like to welcome the Ministers who are already in this House starting with the Minister of Justice. Legal and Parliamentary
Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi; the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon.
Musabayana; the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public
Works, Hon. Chombo; the Minister of Information, Publicity and
Broadcasting Services, Hon. Mutsvangwa; the Deputy Minister of
Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage, Hon. Madiro and the Deputy Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services, Hon.
Mutodi.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity. Firstly, I want to thank Parliament for the gadgets that you see everyone has. This is something good. Having Ipads you see a lot, you google and do everything, so we are going to be troubling
Ministers a lot. Madam President, my question goes to the Leader of the House, Hon. Ziyambi who is here. Hon. Minister, I do not know if you are aware that last year NUST was charging $565 and now it is $4288.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May you please
address the Chair.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I am talking about universities Madam President. A programme which was $600 is now $5000. Lupane was charging $700 and it is now $6068, WUA was charging $800 and now it is $6500, UZ was $643 and now it is $5700. This is just the fees, I am not including the boarding fees, food, transport and everything. Hon. Minister, I have over ten university students who I know right now are not able to go to school because the parents cannot afford. I brought two girls from the University of Zimbabwe because the girl child is important and I thought I would commit myself to help them pay that. They are at my house right now. Hon. Minister, is that reasonable looking at the salaries that every civil servant is ….
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The best thing Hon.
Senator is to address the Chair because you cannot address straight in the face of the Minister. I stand on their behalf.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I am sorry Madam President. I am so overwhelmed and I am touched. I even feel like crying. We are meant to represent people. The salaries that civil servants are paid…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order. Can we have
order Hon. Member? Can we please put the question across because if we need to address some other issues. I think it would be better to bring up a motion so that we are able to debate. Can you put up the question so that the Minister is able to answer? Thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I hear you Madam President. Thank you very much. My question is Hon. Minister, you sit in the Cabinet. When you were approving these fees hikes, were you cognisant of the fact that people cannot afford especially considering how low the salaries are?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. Last week in this House, the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development addressed this question and he gave a very good answer which perhaps if the Hon. Senator was not here, with your indulgence she can go to the Hansard and get the answer. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Information, Publicity and
Broadcasting Services, Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa. I would want to understand how information about corona virus is distributed. Yesterday we heard that there is a young lady who came from China who is not feeling well and was taken to Wilkins Hospital. How much information have you given out to people in rural areas about this disease so that they are prepared? We want to know if it is true that this girl is infected.
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND
BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA):
Thank you Madam President. I thank Hon. Sen. Chabuka for being concerned about coronavirus which is so frightening. The Minister of
Health and Child Care is not here but I will speak as the Minister of
Information. There is a lady who came from China who is 27 years old. When this menace started, the Government was prepared to see how protected we are as a country so that this disease does not spread. There was an agreement with the Government of China to see that there is limited movement from China to Zimbabwe and from Zimbabwe to
China unnecessarily. That is the Government’s position. Those who are coming from China are checked at all ports of entry to see if they have any symptoms of this disease. People are checked not only at the Harare International Airport but even at Beitbridge Border Post. We saw the Minister of Health and Child Care was in Victoria Falls and other ports of entry to make sure that those who are entering the country and have high temperatures are quarantined.
This disease started in a province called Hubei in the middle of China and those coming from that area when they enter this country go under quarantine where they are checked daily. Those who are coming from China are first screened in China. That girl was screened in China but she is a citizen of this country. When she arrived here, her temperature was very high and because we want to protect people, she was quickly taken to Wilkins Hospital to be checked thoroughly to see if her temperature has nothing to do with coronavirus. We spread this news everywhere. This girl was tested and she was negative. As we stand, in this country we do not have coronavirus. All this is done to protect people.
The World Health Organisation is saying we have to protect ourselves from this disease. Those parents with children in China are rest assured that they are being protected. Our embassy in Beijing, China is making sure that our students are being protected. In Zimbabwe we do not have corona virus. We are using the radio, newspapers and officers to spread the information as a Ministry. As a Ministry, we have officers in every area, including wards - so those people are disseminating information. Now we are going to give out community radio licenses, which means that we will be going to areas which are considered to be marginalised where they usually wait for someone to come from the towns to obtain information but now, people will get information through community radios. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Madam President, I want to know, since
this disease was discovered, does this country have testing kits? If we do not have, did we buy these kits and do we have people who are able to use these machines?
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: For the Minister of
Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services to answer us with the knowledge she has on information, this might require the Minister of Health and Child Care or the Leader of the House to help us if there is something that he knows. I am being informed that the Minister of Health and Child Care is coming and will help us. Let us hold on to the question and ask it when the Minister comes in.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): That is what I
wanted to say, that the Minister of Health and Child Care is giving a Ministerial Statement in the National Assembly, once he is done there, he is going to come over and give the same statement here.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I thought if it is about
the health situation, why do we not wait for the Minister himself.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President, compliments
of the season.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you, same to
you.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you so much. Madam President, I had the privilege to cross outside the country’s border and came back yesterday. What the Minister is saying, I did not see any test commensurate with what the Minister is saying at Beitbridge Border Post. I thank you.
HON. B. MPOFU: It is almost similar. I used the airport and I remember what they were asking is; ‘where have you been in the last two weeks,’ and people were asking, is that the screening?’ I suspect that the person they were talking about told them that they were in China, that is how this person was quarantined. However, there are no tests done, there is nothing at the borders. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA):
Thank you very much Madam President. These are technical questions which they are asking, which can only be answered by the Minister of Health and Child Care. I am glad that the Minister will be here but as far as I am concerned, I know that at all the ports of entry, we have our health people there actually testing.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is why I
requested Hon. Senators to be patient as the Minister is coming.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Hon.
President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is your point of order Hon. Member?
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: My point of order is around the way we are answering questions. The Ministers must be honest because they all attend one Cabinet meeting and discuss and come up with an understanding that this is what is happening. The Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services said she knows it is happening, that the screening is happening. I have also crossed the border and I have never seen it happening. So when they are saying it is happening, if one Minister says it, it does not need the Minister of Health to know that the real screening is happening. So my point of order is that let us be honest, because we are talking about people’s lives.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Senator for noticing that but I feel that when we give questions to our ministers, we should not answer for them again. We have asked them, they have to answer. If it is now technical as she is saying, await for that particular Minister to come and explain to us. This is what we are saying. If it is the issue of information like what the Hon. Sen. asked, this is how the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting
Services answered that, ‘we are trying to give the information throughout the country.’ That is how she answered. Thank you very much.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Madam
President. Allow me to ask the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development. With the situation that we have in the country, as a Professor who deals with our scientists, what are they doing in terms of manufacture of medication in order to be prepared to address such diseases? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. What we are doing under my Ministry is that there is research taking place and also machines being manufactured. So, with our current education, we now want to manufacture medication from an informed position. We have a programme under the Government called biopharmaceutical and Veterinary Medicine Programme. This programme will ensure that in the next ten years our researchers will focus on the manufacturing of medicinal drugs in this country.
We also have an institution which we came up with called National
Biotechnology Authority and also another programme called Genomic
Technology’s Programme which oversees issues to do with the DNA of certain viruses and examine how diseases caused by such viruses can be cured. I cannot preempt on Coronavirus as of now but I am being inclusive on the issue of research on viruses. We are doing research on such issues. The innovation hubs that we came up with will examine such issues. Madam President, on Tuesday, the Cabinet passed the Bill which is to be introduced here in Parliament, called Education, Innovation, Research and Development Programme Bill. It will be expeditiously passed so that we are able to address these issues not for people to be known as professors and scientists whilst at home but that their knowledge should be used for development. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who is also the Leader of the House. Recently, in the press, the Prosecutor General said that cartels have captured various institutions in the country including the judiciary, the media et cetera. If you can allow me to just quote the
Prosecutor General when he was addressing this fora, he said “I want you to understand the issues are at two levels; the emotional level, members of the public have a legitimate right to be concerned because they live everyday results of corruption”. The shortages that we are experiencing, the economic collapse which, however way you look at it, is a result of corruption.
I think this issue is a serious one in this country. I would like to hear what the Government has so far achieved because I think the fight against corruption started a long time ago during this second republic but we cannot continue like that. I think we owe it to the public to make sure that it is explained and publicly see tangible results of what is happening.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I would like to
thank the Hon. Senator for the question and indicate that indeed any nation, when there is corruption, it will retard economic growth and as a Government, we are committed to fighting corruption. However, fighting corruption means you will be fighting people with needs and when you do so, they use every legal route available to try to escape. So, you would find that it is actually accepted internationally that prosecuting one case of corruption needs a lot of money and you will meet a lot of impediments.
So, what is happening to Zimbabwe at the moment in our fight against corruption is not something that is isolated to us alone, it is something that is common when you are fighting corruption. Having realised that, we then decided that taking the criminal route is one of the most difficult one because the burden of proof is on the State to prove the case. So we brought to this Parliament amendment to the Money Laundering Act wherein we then inserted what we call unexplained wealth orders where the Prosecutor General will now be allowed an exparte application that will be on its on to court to say that so and so amassed this property…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order! Hon. Senators
who are seated at the back, may you move so that it does not disturb anything when someone comes in to fill in the chairs. However, it seems I am doing the job for the chief whips.
HON. ZIYAMBI: So, what we have done is and I am glad this House passed that legislation. We now have that provision whereby if you amass wealth and we know that the amount of money that you earn does not correspond to what you have, the Prosecutor General can go to court so that an order can be issued to show why that wealth cannot be frozen and you explain the source of your wealth. However, failure to explain, then that is forfeited to the State. We believe this is an easier route, it is a civil route, the burden of proof shifts to the other person, and it is not on the State.
So we are now using several methods to fight corruption and going forward, you will see a lot of asset forfeiture happening. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. There are students training as teachers, they go for attachments, whilst on attachment, they are supposed to buy stationary that is needed. For those who have been through the teaching profession, you know what is needed for you to be a teacher. Those students are getting 150 dollars. If we are to consider the value of 150 dollars today, I am sure you know that there is legislation that says USD is no longer a legal tender so when I talk of 150 dollars, I am referring to the RTGS$ which is the bond. So, these students are being given 150 bond; they are supposed to buy their food, bath, wash their clothes and buy tools of trade. As a Ministry, what are you doing to address this issue because the situation is bad out there? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I would like to thank
Hon. Sen. Shoko for the question he raised. As we may all be aware because of the adoption of the mono-currency system in 2019, we know that the bond is not of much value and it is inadequate, so we are considering and working with the Ministry of Finance to ensure that when reviews for other funds are done, our students’ allowances will also be reviewed.
I also want to say that this amount that the students are being given is just a stipend. There is never a time when one will say I have enough money under the sun. This is just to assist them. Let me say that we are seized with the matter and we are working towards improving the conditions and ensure that they complete their diplomas on time. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Hon. Minister, this
amount, 150 dollars; when was it last reviewed and we noted that it is inadequate. Furthermore Minister, college fees is paid whilst they are on attachment and it is as much as fees paid by people who are in college.
What is the justification for this?
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: When students are on attachment we
said that they should only pay 60% of the fees, we addressed that and it is in order. On the question raised by the Chief of $150, it was done during the US dollar era. That $150 in foreign currency was very helpful but when we adopted the mono currency system, it means we need to revisit this matter and see how much money these students should be given. As I speak, I hope that this august House should assist us when we are doing Budgets to ensure that we get enough funding.
Madam President, I also want to extent my gratitude in that this year’s Budget for the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, the Hon. Members were able to fight for us and it is commendable compared to other years. So, what we look forward to is that if Parliament supports us through the Budget process to get more money it will enable us to give our students more money to ensure that they complete their education.
Yes, inflation is coming to effect but let me also say that the money that is availed to students whilst on attachment or internship is called stipend. It is for them to be assisted, it is not a salary per se but we want to reconsider this amount so that it can be able to assist them.
Madam President, I hope I have responded to the question.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: We are in consultation with the Ministry of Finance. We passed the Budget and you were saying
Parliament fought hard for the increase in the Budget. Are you going to go back to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development because Parliament has already completed the Budget process?
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: I am saying although the amount
was increased, it is still inadequate but I want to thank the House for the increase that was made. I did not say it is too much but I said compared to other years, it is commendable. When we undergo review for anything, we consult the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and that is the procedure. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: In the absence of the Minister of Agriculture, I will direct my question to the Leader of the House. I want this House to be enlightened on whether there are any programmes in place in terms of water harvesting or not? Currently there are a lot of rains and people talk of water harvesting, people do not know what it is. Is there a programme that is underway to make people aware and train them as to how they can harness water for use after the rains are gone?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND PARLIAMENTARY
AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Member for
the question. Yes, the Government has measures on water harvesting. When we are building dams, it is because we are harvesting so that we harness and avoid it flowing into rivers. We are also conducting a project known as distillation of dams in order to harvest water. So, we do have those measures in place. The challenge that we are facing is that once we have that water, we have quite a lot of dams but we now want to invest in irrigation so that the water harvested can contribute to securing food.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Minister but let me ask the Hon. Senator who raised the question if she is referring to harvesting of water to dams?
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: It was not concerning dams Madam President. I once saw on television that there are ridges and then there are squares that were put so that when it rains water goes into those ridges. They were so many of them, because most of us do not have dams, that is when I realised that there are other methods of conserving water. That is the method that I am asking about. I want to find out if people are aware of it, have they been educated on this? We want farmers to be taught and awareness programmes put in place so that farmers could harvest water. I think it will help us in terms of agriculture.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. I thought she was asking concerning the measures that
Government has put in place in order to harness water at national level. What she has talked about is conservation farming that is used for agriculture.
Madam President, I will refer the question to the Minister and ask him if we have any measures in place for such a programme. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you Madam President, I realised the Minister of Agriculture is not in, let me direct my question to the Leader of the House. We are losing a lot of livestock to a disease where they just feel weak. How many provinces have been affected by this disease?
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That question should
be put in writing because there are areas that will be referred to. So, I do not think the Minister has such information concerning that particular
Ministry. I think you should put your question in writing so that the Ministry can engage in research. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. In the absence of the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, my question is directed to the Leader of the House. Which measures have they put in place in order to address the challenge faced by high schools in the country that now have too many children who used to go to boarding schools? They are now having large classes because boarding schools have become expensive. In Mount Darwin, a class has about 80 pupils. What has the Government put in place to ensure that the high schools and the pupils get adequate education? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon. Senator for the question. I think that question should be put in writing because I do not know how many people have been returned after schools opened. We would need to conduct a survey to see how many students returned from boarding schools and then a conclusive answer can be given.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Madam President.
Mine is a question and at the same time I would want to learn. In the absence of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, I am directing my question to the Leader of the House. When the policy and statutes are crafted, are they not created for people? If the policy has failed, how long does it take for it to be reviewed? We are sitting in this House saying that forex is no longer used as tender in this country and the statutory instrument has been crafted but in this country we are still using foreign currency. There are some things we are failing to understand – goods being sold in foreign currency are always available, for example fuel. We have a lot of fuel which is being sold in forex.
We do not understand where it is coming from. I want the Minister to have a relook into the policy so that he helps us. We are pained because forex is still being used in this country.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for asking the question that if a statutory instrument is not working, what is supposed to be done. When we craft laws in this country, what will be left is for people to comply and those who break the law are arrested or are made to comply. If the law has been put and there is something happening against the law, it means those responsible for maintaining the law take action that people follow that law. Thank you very much Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President. We are
talking about representing people. As the Leader of the House, you are a lawyer and we respect you very much because you are always available in the Senate. Sometimes your responses do not show commitment. Everyone knows that fuel is being sold in foreign currency. This
country is ours and one day you said Zimbabwe is ours and we are supposed to love it. We love this country, that is why we were chosen to lead. My Chairperson from Manicaland is here and he is seeing all these things happening. People are feeling the pinch. Madam President, we are the Government...
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have been listening to the supplementary question. Can you please ask the supplementary question?
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President. I am saddened. As the Leader of the House, you know what is supposed to be done to the people who are selling fuel in foreign currency. They are supposed to be dealt with.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: This is a comment but
you have said what is in your heart.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President. There are some issues which are bi-partisan, these issues are affecting everyone and there is no politics especially on this one. As I am standing here, I sent someone to fill the car and he said he needed forex for him to buy fuel. He showed me service stations which are selling fuel in forex. Even tomorrow we can give you a list of people who are selling fuel in forex. Zuva, some few days ago published and we read a list that if you want fuel in forex, you can go to various service stations to get it. All along the forex fuel was sold in private and now people are selling it openly. No one is being arrested. No one is earning US dollars but you are allowing people to sell US dollars in the streets. What are we supposed to do because this is a very serious issue? You need to come back here and we will give you a list so that you arrest all those people. Thank you.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You have not yet
asked your supplementary question, we are still on question time.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you. My
supplementary question is directed to Hon. Madiro. You are saying you do not know it. As Ministers, it is very bad for you to say that you do not know that there are service stations which are selling fuel in foreign currency. If you know, why are you not arresting them?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. We know that
there are service stations which are selling fuel in foreign currency. The mines and big companies that are generating foreign currency came to us and said that their operations were being affected. They wanted to be allowed to bring fuel on their own and give it to service stations selling in foreign currency. That was allowed by Government that those companies could go ahead so that we do not destroy our industry. If these companies pay their fuel in foreign currency, they can get that fuel from Zuva because they generate foreign currency. If there are people who are not in that arrangement, those people are supposed to comply with the law and people breaking the law must be arrested. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Madam President. We hear
what he is saying. We can really understand that he is not answering our questions adequately. The truth is, in the coming weeks we might fail to come to this House because the coupons we are being given, there is nowhere we can redeem them. The Minister knows that there is nowhere we can redeem these coupons because garages have fuel but they are not selling waiting for price adjustments. They want to adjust their prices against the US dollar. The job that we are doing here does not generate foreign currency. So, how are we going to operate?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. If there are service stations that are hording fuel and not selling, we can withdraw their licences. We closed some service stations after we had been tipped that some service stations were hording fuel and not selling. They were investigated and it was found out that the fuel was there. If there are people who are doing that we are going to withdraw their licences. We are very serious on that issue. If there are places that you know that have fuel and it is being held and not sold, please tell us their operating licences will be withdrawn.
*HON. SEN. MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President. I was
very happy to hear the Minister saying there are industrialists who have come saying that if they continue using bond notes they will be killing the industry. Will they allow industry to continue using bond notes when they have accepted that it is destroying the economy?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Chief
Makumbe, with due respect, I did not hear the Minister say that.
*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: Thank you Madam President. A lot of people who are renting are paying in foreign currency. Where are they going to get foreign currency to pay their rentals? Where are they going to stay when they cannot afford to pay for in foreign currency?
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senator, your
question is not a supplementary question.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
MEASURES TO CONTROL ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Environment, Tourism, Climate and Hospitality to inform the House the measures being taken by the Government to control environmental degradation and to explain the role of traditional leaders in this regard.
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, TOURISM,
CLIMATE AND HOSPITALITY (HON. M. NDLOVU): Madam
President, I will bring the responses for Questions 1 to 6 next week.
*HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Members, I do not
think it will give us a good picture, to have the whole two pages of questions from Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi, honestly. These questions are asked so that ministers go out and research and come back with the information which we would have requested. In the National Assembly, they do not allow for more than three questions from one Hon. Member, but because the Hon. Member would be the only one who would have sent the questions, they will have to put them all on the Order Paper. I think that we should help other Hon. Senators to ask because there are a lot of issues which need to be heard. Questions without notice differ from questions with notice.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I have a point of order. Last year we had questions which lasted two to three months and I think we have been discouraged from asking questions by the non-attendance of the ministers because it is a waste of our time. Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We do not say it is a
question of wasting time.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I retract the statement.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We continue asking the
questions, complaining and putting more pressure that we need ministers. That is our work and I think the Administration is going to help us to write to the ministers so that they come in and answer the questions.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President, let us be wary that we might be fired from work. Unfortunately, even you will also lose your job for the reason that these people are affecting us. The questions which were asked last year were discarded, once they answer questions without notice, they leave the House and we are left here where questions will be moved to the following week. So we ask you as the President of the Senate, without giving you instructions but just saying because I cannot instruct my superiors. You are our leader, we want to do our work, you should be hard on these people, look for a whip to make them work. They should not go out soon after the first session of questions, they should remain here until all the questions are exhausted.
People are saying that these old men are not working, they only work for 30 minutes and adjourn. So what is the purpose of this House? Please deal with these people, do not allow them to continue doing what they are doing right now. I thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think the questions
which were on the Order Paper last year, you can still resubmit them. We cannot just say it is over, I agree with you and I will make sure that it is effective. Thank you.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 45TH PLENARY
ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN MAPUTO
First Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary
Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. Before I say
what I want to say, I want to encourage the Hon. Members that if a report is brought to this august House, it is their responsibility and duty to check in their pigeon holes and find issues that they can debate on. I say this because we had a heated debate somewhere over the weekend when some people were saying that Committees which are sent outside the country like the SADC PF, IPU and Pan African Parliament do not report back. However, we argued that reports are there if you go to your pigeon holes, you would find them but they were not very happy. So I am encouraging the Hon. Members to read. There are a lot of issues in those reports where they can also make contributions.
Mr. President, with these few words, I also want to thank all the
Hon. Senators who took time to make contributions on this motion.
Without much ado, I move for the adoption of the motion;
That this House takes note of the Report of the Delegation to the
45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, held at the
Joaquim Chissano International Conference Centre in Maputo,
Mozambique, from 15th to 25th July, 2019. Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND HEALTH
FINANCING IN AFRICA
Second Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on
HIV and health financing in Africa, held in Brazzaville, Congo, from 11th to the 12th July, 2019.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. I have
stood up to support this report of the delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High level Summit on HIV and health financing in Africa held in Brazzaville, Congo. Mr. President, it was noted here, that this disease of HIV and AIDS is not only a problem in our country but the whole of Africa. That is why all countries in Africa did gather to put heads together to see to it that this disease is put to a stop.
The problem which I have seen here Mr. President, is that our budget on health is very small; the money is not enough for us to fight this disease. On that same issue, it was noted that HIV is not the only problem, but like I said earlier on, the Health Ministry is not getting enough money. We have seen that it includes SDG’s especially SDG number three which says people of all ages have to live well. Here, we are being encouraged as Parliamentarians that when the budget is being done to look at the health budget so that it is given enough money for it to be able to fight all diseases and not only looking at HIV/AIDS alone.
There are a lot of diseases affecting people in this country which requires a lot of money to buy medicines, machines and scans to screen various diseases. Some of these diseases need to be screened earlier so that they get treatment, therefore, maintaining good health amongst our people.
If the country has healthy people even the economy will grow. For example in this august House, if Senators are not in good health, they will not be able to make contributions to debates. When we go to our hospitals, our doctors and nurses are supposed to be healthy so that they are able to assist other people. Furthermore, when we talk about food, it comes from our fields, so, if people are not healthy, no one will be able to work in the farms in order to provide food for the family.
As Parliamentarians, when the budget is being presented, we fail to make sure that enough money is being provided to the Ministry of Health so that it is able to take care of everyone in this country health wise. So, my request is that when the budget is being done, we need to pay much attention to see to it that the Ministry of Health is given enough money.
I would like to thank everyone who attended that Summit, our Deputy Speaker was there and she gave a history of our challenges here in terms of HIV/AIDS. I thank you.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
Debate to resume Tuesday, 25th February 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND
DEVELOPMENT ON THE PLIGHT OF PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES AND CHALLENGES FACED BY WOMEN AND
GIRLS WITH DISABILITIES IN ZIMBABWE
Third Order read: Adjourned debated on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the plight of people with disabilities and challenges faced by women and girls with disabilities in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I stand to wrap up the motion, the report on the Order Paper. Before, I do that, I just want to thank the Members of the Committee for the tour that we had. Also I want to thank all Senators who debated on this report on the plight of people with disabilities and challenges faced by women and girls in Zimbabwe. This was a very touching report. I want to thank everybody and I also want to ask the Minister to come and respond to the report.
Mr. President, I now move that the motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the plight of people with disabilities and challenges faced by women and girls with disabilities in Zimbabwe be now adopted – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]
Motion with leave adopted.
MOTION
REMOVAL OF ILLEGAL SANCTIONS IMPOSED ON ZIMBABWE
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the unconditional and immediate removal of the illegal economic sanction imposed on Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like
to thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up my motion. I want to thank all Hon. Senators who debated on this motion. They gave very pertinent advice. I think their contributions will benefit the country. I would like to thank fellow SADC countries who called for the immediate removal of these sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe and their unconditional removal as well.
I would also want to thank SADC countries once again for setting
25th October as the date for all SADC countries to voice their
disapproval of the sanctions. It is my hope that one day our cries will be heard and the sanctions will be removed.
I now move for the adoption of the motion on the unconditional and immediate removal of illegal economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe.
Motion with leave adopted.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President, I seek your permission that I read instead of referring. I want to thank you for affording me an opportunity to debate the Presidential Speech which was delivered at the opening of the Second Parliament…
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Order, order! The rules of both Houses state that the only time you can read is when you make your maiden speech. Thereafter, for the rest of the five years, you have to speak from your head and probably refer to some notes as you go. For you to read the whole text, that will be against the rules.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the President for his speech that was presented at the opening of
Parliament. It was well presented….
HON. SEN. NCUBE: On a point of order Mr. President. I do not know if I am getting lost but I understand it was agreed in the Standing Rules and Orders that Members can now read their speeches.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Take your
seat my consultant is coming.
One of the Clerks at the Table approached the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I knew what I
was doing but I wanted to confirm. It is good to consult in case I missed something. He has just confirmed that there is an intention and some draft recommendations have been made to the Standing Rules and Orders Committee to amend and then proceed as you have just mentioned. For now, we are still using the old ones, so the old rules apply. I thank you.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Mr. President, His Excellency the President praised the peaceful environment that prevails in our country as compared to other countries where there is political turmoil. This is a credit to the President and also a credit to the people of Zimbabwe that this country is peaceful.
In addition to that Mr. President, the President covered those areas that are a challenge to the country. One of them is the recent Cyclone Idai where people were heavily affected by the floods and some of the people died. He expressed his gratitude that most of the people throughout the world supported Zimbabwe in terms of resources in order to support those people that were affected.
Mr. President, the President also covered areas that the country is actually facing in terms of the economy that currently there are problems of fuel, electricity and also the problem of shortages but the President assured the country that Government is doing its best to be able to overcome all the problems that are taking place currently.
The President also covered areas that cover corruption in this country that has reached alarming levels. He confirmed that he has a zero tolerance to corruption and warned everyone that the law is going to take its course on anybody who is found at the wrong side of the law. The President finally assured the people that they should keep united as they have been in the past as they await the results of the Government’s efforts in terms of trying to rectify the problems in the economy. I thank you Mr. President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: In view of
the issue raised by Sen. Ncube, I just want to refresh your memories in case you doubt in future. You can get it on Clause 80, ‘Senators’ speeches; a senator must (a) read his/her maiden speech; (b) not read his/her speech but refresh his/memory by reference to notes when addressing the Senate’. Those have not been amended yet, they are in the red book. We can proceed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MANICALAND PROVINCE (HON. SEN. GWARADZIMBA), the
Senate adjourned at a Quarter past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 25th February, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 18th February, 2020.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
COLLECTION OF SAMSUNG TABLETS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to remind Hon. Members who
have not yet collected their Samsung Tablets, to collect them from officers from the ICT Department who will be stationed at the Members’ Dining hall during sitting hours. Those Members with challenges with connectivity to the wifi and passwords can also seek assistance from those officers.
Last week, I did announce that we were going to start today on our use of Tablets and because other Members have not got them, we extend that by another week.
MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE
FAMILY MEMBERS STRUCK TO DEATH BY LIGHTINING IN
CHAKARI
HON. NKANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. On a sad note, I wish to advise this august House that five family members from my constituency, Chakari were yesterday evening struck by lightning and they all died on thespot. However, I wish to thank the Civil Protection Unit for their swift action because as I speak, they are on the ground to assist us. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: We pass our condolences to those members from your constituency.
DEATH OF PROF. KUWEWA
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Good afternoon. My point of privilege is in regards to the passing away of Prof. Kurewa, the first Black Clerk of Parliament of Zimbabwe. My request is that, if it is well with you Mr. Speaker Sir, that we can observe a minute of silence. Thank you.
Hon. P. D. Sibanda having stood up before being recognised.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You do not stand up before I have
responded. Yes, I think it is proper that we recognise the contribution made by our first Black Clerk of Parliament from the early 80s until up to 1988. He served this Parliament extremely well before he became the founding Vice Chancellor of the Africa University. If we may stand and observe a minute of silence? May his soul rest in peace.
All Members observed a minute of silence.
+HON. MATHE: Thank you Mr Speaker Sir. My point of privilege is on the way Members handle themselves during proceedings, especially on Wednesdays when they know there is live television coverage. Most members spend most of the time debating on useless things just because they want to be seen on television when those members who have crucial questions that need to be addressed are not given enough time to do so. Mr Speaker Sir, with the powers vested in you please make it a point that those members that waste other peoples time here are dealt with decisively.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you have stated the issue so well and I think everyone has heard. Therefore we are not going to repeat that tomorrow, Wednesday.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, as one of the representatives of the people standing for Kambuzuma, we are supposed, according to the Constitution, to know how the government is using its funds, also where the money is being used, and in terms of the law what is it supposed to be. In the past days I have been quizzed by the people in my constituency and their concern is on the issue of POLAD. They want to know what funding is being channelled towards POLAD.
They also want to understand what POLAD is to the Government and for how long it will be in existence. Furthermore they want to know that since POLAD has been there for some time, what results has it achieved. For that reason I request the Vice President Hon. Mohadi to come to this august House to explain to us the work of POLAD and the achievements attained since government funds are being channelled towards POLAD, whether it is a statutory body and if money channelled to POLAD has yielded any results. We have not allocated funds to POLAD in this House.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, a point of privilege
should be in relation to the rights of the MPs. So your point of privilege is misguided. If the Hon. Member is aware of the use of the money that he talked about and has proof, he should pose the question to the Minister of Finance tomorrow. So, for today that point of privilege is misguided.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: My point of privilege is to convey the profound gratitude of the people of Binga to the CPU, various other well wishers and stakeholders that responded positively in our time of distress. I would like to thank all the stakeholders that managed to bring food, clothes and other requirements at the time of flooding and Government that brought various necessities at our time of need. I want to acknowledge that currently most of the needs of the people that were affected by the flooding have been met save for accommodation. As I speak, even the tents required to temporarily accommodate the people whose homes have been destroyed have not yet been supplied.
As a result, the victims of the floods are still staying with relatives because there is nothing that has been provided for them to be accommodated temporarily. It is my humble request to this House that we are generally as Members of Parliament known for requesting
Government to purchase for us land cruisers and other expensive things. I think we need to turn the leaf and this is an opportunity for the House to take into consideration the fact that we are the people’s representatives and that we care and love the people. I therefore propose Hon. Speaker that if each Member of this House can contribute a bag of cement and one IBR sheet, we can construct at least two roomed houses for the over 50 households that lost their homes due to flooding. What that means is that it is significant in the sense that the citizens that have been viewing us as a greedy lot of leaders will then begin to view us as leaders that care.
I am raising it now because it has affected my constituency but I believe that even if another constituency were to be affected in the future, it is good that we do the same kind of act.
Let me say Hon. Speaker, from the Caucus on the left side of your
House, that position has already been adopted and we have agreed as Members of Parliament from the MDC Caucus that we donate a bag and an IBR sheet each person, but however I thought the people that were affected do not belong to one political party and for once, it is important that we take a bipartisan approach towards the need of our citizens.
Members that are willing to do that donation may do that to Hon. Watson. She is collecting on behalf of the people of Binga. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much for your point of privilege Hon. Sibanda. Do not put the cart before the horse. Your point of privilege should have pointed to your appeal to this august House and from the experience that we had when Cyclone Idai caused ravages in Manicaland, particularly Chimanimani and some parts of Chipinge and parts of Masvingo, we responded as the Parliament of Zimbabwe. I want that procedure to be respected otherwise there will be some misunderstanding whereby you begin to bring in the question of bi-partisan. The matter must arise through the proper channels of this House as you did for the affected areas in some parts of Manicaland and Zaka and it was organised under the Administration of Parliament.
So I want us to follow the same route and the coordinator in this particular case is the Clerk of Parliament. You do exactly what you did by your contributions for the common good when Cyclone Idai happened. Otherwise if tomorrow it happens in a ZANU PF constituency we start appointing some Member from ZANU PF, that does not reflect the institutional position of Parliament – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order!
Having said that, your initiative is appreciated, but redirect it to the Clerk of Parliament for all Members of Parliament and that way we will be better coordinated.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I appreciate Hon. Speaker, your direction. I think the major point in my appeal was to indicate that maybe Hon. Members might want to donate clothes. While we now have got sufficient clothes, our real need is to build permanent structures for those people that were affected. Therefore, that is why my appeal is on cement and IBR sheets. Thank you Hon. Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I thought I was very clear in my Queen’s language. I said your proposal is excellent but it lacked proper direction. Let us be coordinated through the office of the Clerk of Parliament. That is all. Thank you.
*HON. K. PARADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I have heard the Honourable Member thanking the CPU on the work that they have done but Hon. Speaker, I am not happy because two weeks ago there was a gold panner in Chinhoyi where a mine collapsed on him as he was panning for gold but up to now, he is still under the rubble. The CPU is failing to get an excavator to dig him out.
Other companies like ZIMPLATS have chipped in with diesel but they are saying they do not have anything and the person is still underground. So Mr. Speaker, I can say that as a Government we do not have money to hire machinery that will dig underground so that this boy’s body can be retrieved. Some are thinking that we should just bury him there because we have tried everything but as a Government together with the CPU, we should look for machinery that will help retrieve the body of that boy. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: We are very sorry about that story.
I kindly ask you Hon. Paradza, that you should ask that question tomorrow during question time so that we hear what the Government will say about the issue. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Hon. Speaker, I move that Orders of the
Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 8 has been disposed of.
HON. CHOMBO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE ON ALLEGATIONS OF CORRUPTION RAISED AGAINST HON. T. MLISWA, HON.
CHIKOMBA, HON. NDEBELE AND HON. P.D. SIBANDA
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Privileges Committee on allegations of soliciting for a bribe raised against Hon. Mliswa and other three members.
Question again proposed.
Hon. Mliswa having stood up to debate – [HON. MEMBERS: We cannot hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: How can you hear when you are making
noise? I proceed, you must listen. In terms of our regulations, a Member who has been accused has a right to respond. I therefore call upon the accused Hon. Members to respond.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir and a very good afternoon to you. Mr. Speaker Sir, as one of the accused persons in this matter, my response is as follows:-
On the 6th of March, 2019, I was called upon by the Parliamentary Privileges Committee on enquiry into allegations of corruption, it being alleged that I solicited a bribe from Mr. Goddard as a facilitation fee to enable J R Goddard Contract (Pvt) Ltd to secure a mining contract at Hwange Colliery Company. After the full enquiry, it was found that there was insufficient evidence that I solicited for a bribe and that there was a breach of privilege or contempt of Parliament.
Despite the fact that the Committee exonerated me on this matter, I was called upon to answer to the Parliamentary Privileges Committee and they made some unfavorable recommendations against me and pronounced deterrent measures. The recommendation was that my behaviour was inconsistent with Parliamentary decorum. Mr. Speaker Sir, when you are found guilty, I think you expect to be charged but if you are not guilty, why should you be charged?
The report was very clear Mr. Speaker Sir, that I did not commit a crime. The so called complainant Mr. Goddard equally appeared before the Committee itself and totally said I never spoke to him about it and I never raised the issue. What disturbs me though is that after all that evidence presented before the Committee, they still found fault and on the issue of soliciting for a bribe. We want to talk about the decorum of Parliament. Parliament is governed by rules.
Mr. Speaker Sir, for as long as there is no rule that points to the fact that I was inconsistent with Parliament decorum, then it is mere speculation. The Committee was supposed to cite the relevant Standing Rules and Orders that say that I was inconsistent with Parliamentary decorum but there was no such. I still challenge even in the report, I tried to go through it myself to see how best I could counter it but still I have not seen anything Mr. Speaker Sir. It is my careful considered view that the recommendations and the deterrent measures therefore, were tantamount to convicting me and consequently imposing a sentence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important that Parliament understands that we equally have lives after Parliament. We have businesses that we were running before we were Members of Parliament which we continue to run. We have got farms that we still run and we represent people. I have never seen a problem in anybody approaching me as a Member of Parliament with an issue that they have. The problem only arises when the issue brought before you is inconsistent with Parliamentary decorum. I meet a lot of people every day, I talk to a lot of people every day and they have a right to talk to me. I have never at all used any information that they give me to my benefit.
We represent people from a national perspective. It is well known that I speak, whether I am a loud mouth, whether I am controversial but people can decide whether the loud mouth is the one that they want to talk to about a certain issue. We can only be better informed in
Parliament if we are talking to people. There is no rule in Parliament that says we cannot engage people after Parliament and as such, I demand that if Parliament does not want us to talk to anyone outside Parliament, there must be able to put a rule which governs us from that. Somebody can call me and say I want to see you, maybe it is an emergency to say Hon. Member, there are ten people who want to kill you or there are ten people who want to kill His Excellency, the President or the Speaker of
Parliament. How can I know that if I do not give them that opportunity?
What should be important is the action that is taken thereafter. I see nothing wrong and I repeat that I will still do it if anybody comes to me seeking for advice. I will still see them and tell them my advice.
What is important is the action that I take. When I was approached on this issue, my action was very simple and it was actually consistent not inconsistent with Parliament decorum by referring them to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs (Hon. Ziyambi) who was governing the Reconstruction Act and is the one who had appointed the administrator. So, what wrong did I do by having somebody coming to me saying I want to see you, can you help me in this matter, then I guided them to say no, I cannot help you, I have no powers to help you. This matter is for the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who is the custodian for this Administration and Reconstruction Law which has come through. If anybody comes to me again, I will still do it, I will not stop that and that must be understood. My job as a Member of Parliament is to refer and guide people to the appropriate offices. When I was invited to this meeting, I was briefed to the point, they said what they wanted to say and I said unfortunately none of us have got the powers to do what you ask of us to do. This matter is before the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who is responsible for administration. So, what is wrong with that? After that, I left. If anything, Parliament must commend me for having done this directing them to the appropriate office. For us to now be penalized for that then leaves quite an unfortunate issue because we must represent people...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say for us or for myself?
HON. T. MLISWA: For myself.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is alright.
HON. T. MLISWA: For myself Hon. Speaker Sir. So it is important that we are able to – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – we as Parliament. That is what I am saying. I do not know if you want to be my English teacher. I already got Mr. Speaker who is a headmaster – [Laughter] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not worry.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the finding was contrary to the principles of natural justice and fairness.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You should have qualified the nick name on a lighter note.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a lighter note Hon. Speaker.
The finding was contrary to the principle of natural justice and fairness in particular, that a person cannot be convicted of a charge he was not facing unless the charge is amended. It is common cause that I was not called upon to answer to allegations of behaviour. That was inconsistent with Parliament decorum.
My allegation was soliciting a bribe. If at all that was a charge, it was supposed to appear on the charge sheet when we were given an opportunity to respond but it cannot be sneaked in the recommendation when we were not given to the fact that we had to respond to that. The law is very clear on the position that a court tribunal cannot convict a person of a charge other than which he has been charged with without the charge first being amended.
Reality is placed on the case of S. Moyo (1994) to ZL 24 (h) (State vs Moyo). It is important to note that there was no allegation against the decorum and conduct. The Committee was never mandated to inquire on my conduct and decorum. No evidence was laid to that effect neither was I called upon to give evidence. I have no doubt in my mind that if I was charged with it, I would have given a good defence of it.
The specific terms of reference of the Committee as captured on page 1 were as follows: The Committee was established on the 18th of February, 2019 by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders of the
National Assembly to inquire into allegations of corruption against Hon.
- Mliswa, Hon. Chikomba, Hon. Ndebele and Hon. Sibanda. The Committee was mandated to inquire into the allegations and table a report to the National Assembly. That report was tabled and in that report being tabled, I was exonerated. At no point did the Committee charge us with the decorum of Parliament or our conduct.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Committee which had been established on the 18th of February, 2019 by the Committee of Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly to inquire into allegations of corruption; it was into allegations of corruption and this is the charge sheet that we got.
They were to report into the allegations and table a report to the National Assembly. The issue of conduct and decorum was not placed on the charge sheet. As such, we now see it appearing as a charge and a verdict given without it being put there.
Further on page 2, the Committee states that it was established pursuant to Order 24 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly. The terms of reference of the Committee were to inquire into the allegations of corruption against myself, Hon. Chikomba, Hon. Ndebele and Hon. Sibanda. I specifically responded to the allegations that were made against myself, that it is soliciting for a bribe. The inquiry was carried out and the evidence was laid to establish the position of the allegations of corruption or soliciting for the bribe.
Further, in any event, the record shows that I was not aware of the agenda of the meeting. If I had gone to the meeting, knowing what the agenda was, then I was supposed to be told. The evidence presented before the Committee was very clear in that I was not told the agenda; I only knew about the agenda when I got there. When I knew of the agenda when I got there, there was no need for the meeting to continue; that is when we referred it to the Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs. In any event, the record shows that it was not a Committee meeting. We must be very clear Mr. Speaker Sir. What constitutes a Committee? I was actually disappointed with some of the members who did not understand how a Committee is constituted.
Whilst Parliament might sit outside Parliament, there is a procedure which is followed. There are letters written through the Clerk inviting people and so forth. So how on earth would people of that magnitude want to turn it into a Committee meeting because the Chairperson was there? By virtue of the Chairperson being there, was there a Committee Clerk? No there was no Committee Clerk. Was
there a quorum? There was no quorum. Was the Clerk written to about it? No. To me, what constitutes a Committee? We must understand and it is important that they are educated on this and they do not impose a situation of the Committee which was not there.
By being a Chairperson of the Committee, I am quite aware of my conduct and how Committees are carried out at the end of the day. Not in this way unless it is another Parliament but this Parliament with due respect, is run by rules and these should be adhered to and so forth.
More importantly, the record shows that once the issue for discussion was Hwange Colliery, I advised J. R. Goddard and Company that the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Mines had no jurisdiction that the issue referred and referred them to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. People might think that Parliamentary Committees have got power, it is the power that they think about but there is also the aspect which we must talk about which is having to lobby. Unfortunately, in this country, we only think of the word bribe.
The nationals of this country are prepared to lobby for whatever they want through whoever they believe is the right person to represent them.
Most of the questions that we get and we ask here, we get from our constituencies and from the nation at large. At no point are we told that if we have a question or if we are to be given a question or issue to raise in Parliament, we must follow a certain route. We come here; we raise the issues and you as the Chair, have the right to then adjudicate over any matter which you feel is not appropriate. Let us also understand that we have people who talk to us. I am walking on the street and one can say, Hon. Mliswa how are you? There is the issue of pensions; can you please bring it up in Parliament? What should I say to that person? That is what I want Parliament to guide us moving forward because since they think our behaviour is inconsistent with Parliamentary decorum, can they tell us what is consistent so that we follow that.
We are law abiding citizens and we have always followed the rules of Parliament but you cannot bring in rules which are not there.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you address yourself to the
Committee and not Parliament.
HON. T. MLISWA: I was addressing the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is even better.
HON. T. MLISWA: That is even better. It is therefore surely surprising how a Committee came up with a conclusion as it did because the conduct itself does not fit in defining provisions of rule 16 (2) of Appendix (a) of the Standing Orders.
Paragraph 7.7 of the report notes that the Committee that met was discussing Hwange Colliery Company and the four accused Hon.
Members of Parliament contravened rule 16 (2) Appendix (a) of the
Standing Order. That observation constituted a misdirection in that the Committee erred in its interpretation of the law Mr. Speaker Sir. I will repeat, ‘That observation constituted a misdirection in that the committee erred in its interpretation of the law’. I suppose we all read the law differently at the end of the day but not according to that.
A reading and lateral interpretation of the said Rule shows that the
Rule does not create an offence …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say ‘lateral or literal?’
HON. T. MLISWA: Literal yes, interpretation of the said Rule shows that the Rule does not create an offence or does not define a standard of behaviour that must be adhered to by Members of
Parliament. This is critical, it is a rule that is there and if we are found guilty or innocent – it must be premised on the rules.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Standing Rules and Orders Committee must be able to ensure that some of the members in the Committee are well versed with these rules because it will create unnecessary panic and bring this Parliament to disrepute at the end of the day. I have got my name that I have to protect at the end of the day and the sad part is that after all this, nothing is said to clear my name, other than to point out to rules that do not apply. I do not have the time to go and explain to the ordinary person that I was exonerated. They still think that I sought for a bribe at the end of the day. It is important Mr. Speaker Sir that in us coming up with these recommendations, we are clear, thorough and able to ensure that the image of Members of Parliament remain intact. You do not buy integrity, dignity or reputation but you work for it and it can easily be destroyed. This is one way of some of my reputation being destroyed.
Why is it being destroyed? Is it because I am outspoken and need to be smear-campaigned so that I lose credibility? It is not fair. When we are standing in this House, we try to represent people honestly … THE HON. SPEAKER: You have Three minutes Hon. Member.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir … -[AN HON.
MEMBER: We can extend the time for you if you want?] – No, it is alright.
Instead, it is a defining provision that is incapable of being contravened both in fact and at law. It is therefore my humble submission Mr. Speaker Sir, that whilst the report clearly cleared me of soliciting for bribes as per charge sheet – it has not come out that way. They then went and found something that was not part of the charge sheet; they went against the very Standing Rules and Orders Committee that must guide them. We must be guided by the rules that appear before us.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me conclude by saying that it is therefore my conclusion that the Findings by the committee is grossly unreasonable. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In as far as you are concerned?
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, in as far as I am concerned.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank Hon. Speaker for this opportunity to respond to our esteemed Committee Findings. Hon. Speaker allow me, at the first instance, to debunk certain falsehoods that are carried for truth in that report.
Hon. Speaker allow me to state truthfully that I only met Tundiya on the fateful day. If you read through the report, an impression is created that I had an occassion to meet Tundiya at the Bronte Hotel – I did not participate at such a meeting Hon. Speaker. It is also indicated in the same report that on the day that we met with Tundiya and Goddard – we were yet to visit the Hwange Colliery Company – this is not fact. We had already visited Hwange Colliery Company.
As has already been stated Hon. Mliswa, I wish to restate Hon. Speaker that when we met Tundiya and Goddard, we were not constituted as the Committee on Mines and Mining Development. We met Tundiya and Goddard in our individual capacities. At the hearing, the question of decorum was never laid at the table and an impression is creation that if Goddard intended to win a mining contract at Hwange
Colliery Company, we had the capacity or wherewithal to influence that. If you go to our Standing Rules, Standing Rule Number 20 and visit the rules of Committees of Parliament – such capacity is not canvassed.
I am the third accused in this matter Hon. Speaker and do not want to revisit how traumatic it is to our families, churches and members of our political parties to suddenly read about us in such bad light. It is very traumatic Hon. Speaker. I am aware of the allegations that are leveled against me in toto and I appeared before the Disciplinary Committee and adduced evidence that clearly exonerated me from the charge of solicitation. I even went a step further to assist the Committee in my response to Goddard’s affidavit.
I mentioned to them that the gentleman had called me the following morning and I had restated the law as it is. I played my part as a learned fellow in that meeting – I told Goddard that the Committee or the Hon. Members had no capacity to assist him because he had hijacked a meeting that was supposed to happen between Hon. Chikomba and Mr. Tundiya. So I stated to the Committee that they are even allowed at law, to go to POTRAZ and access a record of that communication so that they could listen in and read into everything that transpired.
So if the Committee did not do that then they missed an opportunity. It is highly likely that Goddard has been wining lucrative business contracts because he has been bribing people and in this case he failed. We gave the law to him as it is. I told him that the company was under reconstruction and therefore, anything to do with contracts was the preserve of the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
So, the Committee has not shown me where I erred. I have read in their report that they found me at fault for attending a meeting at night and practicing law at night … - [Laughter.] - When I came to you to support my application to study Law at the University of Zimbabwe, you said that ‘I would never live to regret that opportunity and this is it, I am
not regretting. No one not even Prof. Madhuku of POLAD ever told me that I am not supposed to consult at night so that I am lawyer by day and empty head by night.
I assisted this Committee by all means and their report says it all. Read the report. I urge Hon. Members to read the report again. It says it all. Even Goddard in all fairness recused me from these accusations. So, the Committee missed an opportunity, which opportunity I want to invite this august House to make good of. Let us invite Goddard. Let him sit there and have Members of Parliament quiz him on this matter
THE HON. SPEAKER: On my Chair! [HON. MEMBERS:
Laughter]-
HON. NDEBELE: I want to take the whole House into my
confidence and explain what really transpired. Sometime last year, I was phoned by members of the CID. They had all these accusations and when I got there I said read the charge. It turned out that there was an attempt to separate me from three of my colleagues to say Annele you played no role in this. We want to use you as a star witness so that you testify against other Hon. Members. That is not how we operate. When we are here we see no divisions of this iron that because Hon. Chikomba is from the ruling party and I can easily sacrifice and tell lies on things that did not happen.
I have full respect for Hon. Chikomba as an adult and all the Hon. Members. So that attempt to use me as a star witness against others is wrong. This is not the Zimbabwe that we want to build and these are not examples we want to give to our children. So for my part, if I have to die I die, with pride because I fall with four other Hon. Members of Parliament. As the lawyer that I am, I was going to read a lot of case law on the doctrine of common purpose but I believe I have said enough. My invitation to you and the whole House is to accept the fact that no matter how much the snare was going for Hon. Mliswa for his outspokenness, no matter how much the snare was after my colleague Hon. P. D. Sibanda for his outspokenness, no matter how much the snare was out for Hon. Chikomba, I had to –[AN HON. MEMBER: For his richness]- You may want to say that because as his lawyer I agree because he is rich. I had to stand by the truth.
So I implore this House not to miss an opportunity to put a full stop to cartels by inviting Goddard to come and testify in this House. There is a general tendency because of our colonial past that when an old white man lies about a young black man, then that becomes the truth.
I implore this House to bring him here to answer questions. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I came unprepared to
respond today. I was not advised in advance that today is the day that I am responding. I have made a prepared response which, however, I did not bring with me. In order for me to be able to respond adequately and to refresh my mind to the Report that was produced by the Hon. Committee, I move that the debate be adjourned until Thursday when I will come ready to give my response. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In all fairness, Hon. Chikomba and Hon.
Sibanda are given the opportunity to prepare themselves so that the matter is concluded on Thursday. In that regard, Hon. Sibanda has asked for the debate to be adjourned on this matter until Thursday.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 20th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the House reverts to Order of the Day No. 1.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
MARRIAGES BILL [H. B. 7, 2019]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Marriages Bill (H. B. 7, 2019).
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir for
allowing me to add my voice to this very important debate. I would like to begin by saying that as all Hon. Members are aware, there was a lot of pandemonium and mayhem in this country upon the introduction of this Bill. Most of the hullaballoo was centred on the provision of Clause 40 (5) of that particular Bill. In fact, the Bill became colloquially known as the “small houses bill” that is how bad it became. However, I want to say that in my view, the main problem is that this matter was not handled properly. If the House will recall, the issue regarding the harmonisation of our marriage rules did not begin in 2019 when the Bill was gazetted but it has been on the table for a number of years. There was some impetus which was given to it after the landmark ruling in the
Constitutional Court in the case of Mudzuru and another vs the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary and others, which then made it categorically clear that people under the age of 18 could not contract valid marriages in line with the provisions of the constitutions which were adopted in 2013.
Further to that, in 2016 we had the SADC Model Law of Child Marriage which I had the privilege to move when I was still at the SADC Parliamentary Forum in Swaziland. One would have hoped that with that impetus we were going to have the bringing in of this Marriage Bill at the very latest in 2017. That did not happen. There was a lot of procrastination, hedging and fudging. One could tell clearly that the Executive was not fully committed to the issue and as a result, it took so long. However, when the time that the Bill was gazetted came to pass, one started wondering what the delay was all about. One would have hoped that with the time that they took they would have been more careful in terms of looking at all the fundamental issues. But alas, that was not the case and we all started wondering what they had been thinking about if they were thinking at all because eventually when the Bill was gazetted, it was very evident that not sufficient thought had been given not just to that clause as I am going to illustrate, but to the whole Bill itself. It left a lot of fundamental issues unanswered.
However, I will deal with that later.
I will just start with the hullaballoo about Clause 40, the civil partnership. The issue was about cohabiting and small houses. The reason why there was that hullaballoo is partly because our leaders do not lead by example. A lot of perceptions arose because it was felt that Members of the Executive in particular wanted to protect their small houses. That was the perception out there. This was not just confined to political leaders but even when you look at our judges, some of them have been living in polygamous marriages. Some of them have been living in polygamous marriages which only came out clearly at the death of some of the senior judges whom I shall not mention by name but is the problem. It is not just about judges and political leaders, even ministers of religion – a lot of people live double lives. They have got public lives which we all know about but some of them have private lives which we may or may not know about. In some of the situations some people’s private lives are conducted in a blaze of publicity as a result of which some of those people end up with a third life, a secret life which we will only know about after those people die when some children start surfacing who were not known and illustrate the point that people will have been living double lives. So I would like to say because of this particular background, the Bill was not understood clearly but the end result is a situation where we are going to throw away the child and the bath water.
I was privileged to be part of the subcommittee which travelled the length and breadth of this land trying to solicit the views of the public regarding what they felt about this particular Bill. It was very clear although the majority sentiment was that people were not supportive of that particular clause. However, we had some very critical views which came out in particular from the Zimbabwe Women Lawyers Association regarding some genuine cases where some people were being disadvantaged. If you look at the dynamics in our society, there is a clear imbalance between men and women and it is very evident that it is the women who are disadvantaged. As a result, some of these disadvantages will then be perpetuated and in particular, the Cabinet then overreacted by withdrawing Clause 40 when they have no such powers to do that. So, it is clear that there was panic in Government. They had not clearly thought about this particular clause and had not done enough consultations but then overreacted. The end result was that there may be some issues that could have been accommodated but as it stands, because of the sentiments which are in the country it becomes very difficult to attend to those issues.
I would like to say that the main problem which we have to correct as a nation is for us men, in particular to cease behaving in a hypocritical manner. There were Hon Members who were on the forefront of attacking Clause 40 yet they lead double lives which I alluded to earlier. Those are some of the very same people who have got concubines, who have got small houses yet they were at the forefront and going on the top of the mountain to condemn this particular clause.
As legislators, I do appreciate that it has now become extremely difficult to see how that particular provision can be accommodated. Cabinet, in its wisdom or lack of it, considering the fact that the majority of people in this country are Christians, the majority of the people in this country believe in the sanctity of marriage and for them to come up with such a sub clause like sub clause 5 which then says that in terms of its application it would even apply to situations where people were in civil partnerships even if one of the parties were married, was then the height of carelessness on the part of Cabinet. I lay the blame entirely on the Executive on some of these issues, particularly taking into account the length of time that they took before bringing this Bill into Parliament. It would have enabled them to do wider consultations to give more thought to some of the issues.
However the problem with this marriage Bill does not end with the now notorious or infamous Clause 40. There are a lot of other weaknesses in the Bill. I am happy that the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has walked in while I am in the process of debating this Bill.
Let us start with issues of gender equality. You find that the Bill is totally silent about the issue of domicile in the matrimonial regime. Those who are lawyers in this House will appreciate that when we go to court the applicable law when parties are getting divorced or which regulates a marriage is the domicile of the husband irrespective of whether the wife is domiciled within the jurisdiction. When you go to court and you are seeking a divorce you have to establish the jurisdiction of the court by pointing out that the husband is a citizen of Zimbabwe, he was born in Zimbabwe, has always lived in Zimbabwe and he regards this country as his natural and permanent home.
However, I would have expected that in this era where we are advocating for gender equality we would have dealt with the issue of domicile so that we have equality between the genders, equality between men and women – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: This is a lacuna; this is a gap that I hope the
Hon. Minister will apply his mind to.
There is also the other issue which came out clearly in the public hearings, the issue of property during the subsistence of a marriage. At the present moment Madam Speaker, women are disadvantaged. A man can sell a house without the knowledge of the woman. All those are issues which come under the issue of the matrimonial regime. A woman can only get an apportionment of property in terms of section 7 of the Matrimonial Causes Act upon divorce, but during the subsistence of the marriage the courts have been very innovative. We wanted a situation where considering the time that the Executive took in trying to consult, that they would have addressed their mind to the issue of property rights during the subsistence of the marriage and also issues that arise after the death of one of the parties, in particular the laws on inheritance and so on. I know that it is not really strictly speaking part of the marriage laws but because this is a far reaching Bill which is supposed to touch on critical aspects, I am disappointed that the Executive did not see it fit to really try to ventilate some of the issues particularly in regard to inheritance which caused a lot of problems; particularly when some of the hypocrites are the deceased, that is when we discover that not only did they have a second wife under customary law marriage in courts, they had also another small house, had another girlfriend somewhere, have numerous children who were not know, thus at the end of the day it causes a lot of problems in the winding up of the estates of those people. So those are some of the gaps which I believe should actually have been addressed by the Bill.
When we look at the definition of customary law Madam Speaker, it is too wide. It is in the definition section. It means the customary law of any section or community of Zimbabwe’s people. Now we have got many people. We have got Hindus in this country, we have got
Muslims. We do not know when it says Zimbabwe’s people, I believe that they are Zimbabwe’s people and the way that it is couched, it is not clear to me whether Islamic law which applies to those people who believe in Islam is now part of the customary law because that definition, I think for the purposes of this Bill is too wide and there is need for some clarity as to exactly what we mean by that.
Again Madam Speaker, we have got a very critical issue which was talked about. I know that it can be addressed at the Committee Stage but I would have expected the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and his fellow members of the Executive, it is their collective responsibility to have anticipated this issue, to have applied their mind to it and that is the issue of the age of consent. There is now a mismatch between the age of consent to marriage which is 18 and the age of consent to sexual intercourse which remains at 16. I do not know whether at that Committee stage, the Hon. Minister has any intention to bring in an amendment to that effect.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, you are left
with five minutes.
HON. GONESE: Oh, and I have got so many issues to raise.
Anyway, I will try to summarise now. So in my respectful submission Madam Speaker, that is another issue which should have been addressed.
Look at Clause 43 Madam Speaker. It talks about recognition of marriages of foreigners. There is lack of clarity because you look at the heading; it talks of marriage of foreigners. You look at the content; it talks of a foreign marriage. Now, I do not understand. Are we talking about a marriage contracted outside Zimbabwe between people who are resident outside Zimbabwe, whatever their nationality or are we strictly speaking of a marriage between foreigners?
The confusion goes further Madam Speaker. You look at subclause (b), it says that the spouses were not related to each other on grounds of consanguinity. A lot of people may not know what this means. This refers to people who have got a common ancestor. In terms of our law, the general law, second cousins can actually marry but when we look at the doctrine of consanguinity which is referred to, it talks of a common ancestor and it does not explain how far back you can go. It can be seven or eight generations. Does it mean therefore that those people who would have contracted a marriage outside Zimbabwe, where those degrees of relationship in terms of consanguinity are not similar to our law, mean that marriage would be invalid in their countries of origin but valid in Zimbabwe or vice versa? So, that is something that we need clarity on so that you just do not refer to foreign marriages but you have clarity on what it actually entails.
Madam Speaker, you then have a situation that the provisions of this particular Bill actually claim that there is going to be a scenario where you cannot contract both a civil and a customary law marriage, but does not tell us what the consequences of such an event occurring are when we look at the nature of marriages. No person may be married under the general law and customary law at the same time. Does it mean Madam Speaker, that if you do that both marriages are invalid? That is a question which remains unanswered, or does it mean that one of the marriages is invalid and if so which one? So there is need for that clarity so that when this Bill comes into law people have an understanding of what it actually entails.
At the end of the day Madam Speaker, it is clear to me that this particular Bill has actually ignored some of the complex issues which affect members of our society, particularly the issue of property rights which I have already alluded to, particularly the issues relating to inheritance. It was important for the Hon. Minister and his colleagues not to try to sweep all these things under the carpet and try to avoid them by ignoring them. Those are the issues Madam Speaker. If the Hon.
Minister can pay attention to it and then work closely with members of Zimbabwean society so that we can fine tune the Bill to ensure that it addresses…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. May
the Hon. Member be heard in silence please?
HON. GONESE: So that it addresses all the concerns of the Zimbabwean society. Before I sit down Madam Speaker, I want to say that a lot of girls, a lot of women are disadvantaged and perhaps it is important after all has been said and done, for us to try to find a way to make sure that no one suffers exploitation at the hands of their other party and I know that is not going to be easily…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time has expired.
HON. GONESE: Yes, thank you. I am just going to say the last thing Madam Speaker. I want to say that if we had not rushed to bring this Bill, it would have been prudent to deal firstly with straight forward issues like child marriages and then leave the other issues for thorough debate to ensure that we do not have a Bill which is as limping as this one. I rest my case Madam Speaker.
HON. DR. LABODE: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I will touch on
Section 79 of the Marriages Bill but before I go there, I want to talk about the desire by the public and the Committee Report which says the public desires to move the age of consent to sex to 18. I want to bring to the attention of Hon. Members that once we move the age of consent for sex to 18, which is good, but then we need to also have a provision that allows 14. 15, 16 and 17 year-olds who are sexually active to assess health services so that they can access family planning. Otherwise we are opening a pandora’s box for teenage pregnancies because the fact is they are having sex but we want to console ourselves as their mothers and fathers and say they are not having sex. They are having sex, so let us protect them. I do not know where we are supposed to do that or whether this Bill can actually include this. It was demanded by the way by some youth. They said that if you are moving the age of consent to sex to 18, please ensure that us minors can access health services.
Thank you.
Let me now move on to Section 79 about criminalising willful transmission. This law of criminalising willful transmission was enacted before there was treatment for HIV. It was the only option the country and the rest of countries had. It meant to prohibit people from deliberately spreading the virus or to go round having a lot of partners, that was the reason but currently as we stand, Zimbabwe has a beautiful, fantastic programme of ART where we have over 3 million people on ART treatment. Once you are on ART treatment, you are less likely to spread the HIV. So, we need to consider that.
Madam Speaker, we are trying to put people on ART and we are trying to make people go for testing. You can only go for testing and tell your partner or your husband the results when you know that you will not get arrested but currently, if I am tested because I am pregnant, I will not tell my partner because my partner may run to the police and the Judge when judging my case but has no V 11, has no evidence as to whether I came with the HIV or the husband came with HIV but because I have been reported, I am the one who is going to Chikurubi. So, because of that, we really, really need to repeal this law.
Also, Zimbabwe is one of the countries with the highest number in Africa of people who have been arrested. Today we received a report from the Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights, they told us that all these cases if you analyse them properly, you can tell that they were convicted on hearsay. The fact that I am sitting here and I go out with Hon. Mudarikwa who is HIV positive and I am diabetic – [Laughter] – and me who is diabetic and Hon. Mudarikwa who may not even know that he is HIV positive. He will not even know but he will pass on his virus to me who is already immunosuppressed because of diabetic, I will manifest before the person who has passed the virus to me. So, who has passed on the virus? It is me because I am the one manifesting so this law is a dangerous law.
Madam Speaker, do you know that last year we lost five MPs. All the MPs died of non-communicable diseases. Every one of us here can actually go to prison if care is not taken because of this law. All of us have a potential of being arrested because the law is so ambiguous, it is putting a judge in a very difficult position where he or she cannot prove who among the two people standing before him or her actually brought the sickness.
Madam Speaker, Zimbabwe is a signatory to the Sustainable Development Goals. Right now, I am told even other Chairpersons have been given documents. We have been given documents that we are supposed to review and monitor and return to the Speaker, explaining how far we have gone with our SDGs. In the SDGs, Zimbabwe declared one thing that we shall leave no one behind, be it in prison or not, you must access your treatment so that we reduce the virus from spreading. How are we going to reduce that virus if we keep throwing people in jail where we know their HIV prevalence is higher than the normal society? The normal society is sitting on 13% but prisons is sitting on 25 to 30%, which means something is happening in prisons that is causing that. So, we cannot now keep on arresting people and throwing them in that house again.
As we move towards the SDGs again, we have said by 2030, we shall ensure that 95% of Zimbabweans who are eligible to ART are on ART. Madam Speaker, 95% of Zimbabweans shall not be discriminated upon because of being HIV Positive. So, by keeping this law, we are blessing the discrimination which is happening. Madam Speaker
Ma’am, stigma has become huge. My Committee has met with sex workers on numerous occasions. They have said as sex workers, we are blamed for bringing the HIV but as sex workers, they can negotiate sex with a condom and they were saying that is why you find that as sex workers they can look after themselves but not the wives at home who cannot negotiate for sex from a husband who is having multiple partners. So, the stigma that comes is that people living with HIV are blamed for spreading HIV when they are not. They are living with HIV because they were tested and they declared openly that they are living with HIV. If we were to test ourselves here, we will be surprised what the prevalence rate will be. Maybe half of us are ailing. So you see the problems, we are potential spreaders of the virus.
Madam Speaker, I humbly ask Hon. Members to say for the sake of this country and for the sake of the treatment which we are getting free from the Global Fund, let us do the right thing. Let us repeal this law for the sake of our people. Thank you.
*HON. CHIKUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me add my
voice to the Marriages Bill. I want to talk about child marriages looking at the girl child. I suggest that the girl child can get married at the age of 18 and the boy child should get married at the age of 22. Let me emphasise the issue that when Government allows traditional leaders to solemnize marriages as marriage officers, they should be given adequate training so that they will discharge their duties with due diligence. I have also noted that an 18 year old is too young to get married. Some do not have national identity documents, and in some countries they are called stateless citizens. The other point is that traditional leaders should not allow those who do not have national identity documents to get married. This normally refers to children who are called stateless children because they are not registered and they do not have national identity documents.
So, it is important to know whether someone is married or not married and also there should be a database of all people who are married so that they can be a reference point. I would also like to indicate that Section 5 which speaks about civil partnership must not be put in the Marriages Bill because this is not marriage. In our tradition, marriage happens only when all rights have been performed. I would also like to indicate that those who want to register civil partnerships especially those who have multiple partners – this law must set free women who are in such partnerships. The other point is that young girls who are married off should also be allowed to go to school. However, some husbands have a tendency of prohibiting their wives from going to school. The law must allow young girls who are in marriages to go to school. Thank you Madam Speaker, these are my few words.
HON. MASANGO-CHINHAMO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I
am here to add my voice on criminalisation of willful transmission of HIV. This was advocated for to protect mainly the women who were being affected more and more were dying. Little did those who advocated for this no that it will backfire and be used against women.
Listen to this scenario...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Masango-Chinhamo
please can you raise your voice or you can come to the front.
Hon. Masango-Chinhamo walked to the front bench.
HON. MASANGO-CHINHAMO: Thank you Hon. Speaker.
Listen to this scenario. A woman in general is health conscious. When she gets sick, she visits a health institution, when pregnant she is mandated to attend ante-natal clinic and there she will end up being tested for HIV. When a man gets ill, you have to force him to go to the clinic or hospital, it is like they believe that acknowledging that they are sick makes then somehow less of a man or it shows they are weak.
Looking at these two; man and a woman, the person who gets to know their HIV status first is a woman because as I said, they are health conscious. They then have to go and inform the man that they have been tested and are HIV positive. Men now are very clever Madam Speaker Maam, they rush to courts to report that they have been infected with HIV by the woman so the woman gets arrested. There is no way of knowing who infected who and when. In most cases, there is no proof of complainant’s HIV status which is produced in court because the provision does not require proof of HIV status from the complainant. Looking at other sexually transmitted infections like gonorrhea, syphilis et cetera, we have people infecting each other on a daily basis but it is not criminalised. Why? So, what is so special about criminalising HIV? We have a scenario of health conscious women who get tested first and very clever men who report to the court first even if they are the ones who infected the women. Just analyzing this Hon. Speaker, I say no to criminalisation of HIV willful transmission. I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity
to also comment on the Marriages Bill. I would like to start by saying I am supporting what Hon. Gonese and Hon. Dr. Labode have said. We are members of the SADC region and so we are signatories to SADC
Protocols. SADC created the Model Law on Child Marriages in 2016. The Bill still is short in its attempt to eradicate child marriages and I feel that the Minister needs to make sure that the age of consent to sex and the age of marriage are aligned.
I also want to refer say that SADC has also called for the decriminalisation of HIV transmission and so I go to Section 53(2) of the Law and Section 79 of the Criminal Law Codification. Although public opinion was divided on the issue of the appeal of willful transmission, there is actually no evidence to suggest that that law and clause in our law has actually prevented the continued transmission. In fact, the law stigmatises to the extent that even a breast-feeding mother could be found guilty of willful transmission of HIV/AIDS. Stigma and bias against persons, adults and children living with HIV has actually prevented our success in eradicating new infections and stigma is reinforced by the continuation of Section 79 on willful transmission. It should be repealed. It prevents people from seeking treatment; it prevents people from being tested and keeps it as an internal problem which we as Zimbabweans need to actually come out, which we did, in a sense but we have not fully done. It leads to the selective enforcement actually of the law and therefore a miscarriage of justice. The investigating officers in these cases are themselves equally biased possibly, in terms of how they would investigate and apply the law.
There is difficulty equally in the word ‘empirical evidence’. How is the ‘empirical evidence’ defined or decided in order to create proof and an informed assessment actually of transmission and of risk to HIV infection.
Our Constitution calls on us as Zimbabweans to uphold human dignity. The dignity of women who are pregnant, who are tested should then have to reveal their status to their husbands who are then prosecuted in many ways. It is not actually being upheld. Therefore it is imperative that the Minister proceeds to repeal the law on willful transmission. Thank you.
*HON. SHONGEDZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
add a few words on the Marriage Bill. This Marriage Bill is saying that people who are HIV positive should be criminalized. This law should be repealed because it is disadvantaging the women. When women are pregnant, they go for ante-natal classes and are forced to undergo HIV testing. If they go back and tell their husbands, their marriages will be at stake and are the ones who suffer.
I am also appealing that if we repealed this law, there is the girlchild who is supposed to get married after attaining the age of eighteen because when they get married after eighteen years, they can look after their homes but if they are married young they will not be able to look after their homes. When they become pregnant they are prone to more complications to the extent that they can die. I want to thank you Madam
Speaker with those few words.
+HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me
this opportunity. I want to add my voice on the issue of spreading HIV/AIDS. My point Madam Speaker is that most of the times the person who is on the wrong is the lady. When you are pregnant as a woman it is required that you should go for HIV/AIDS testing and you look on the side of the man there is no same rule whereby it is a force matter for a man to be tested. As ladies, we become disadvantaged for at the end of the day, I am the one who is bringing the results back home. One can deny. There are times when they can agree to go and test and when they are negative during the window period, they can then blame me for my results that I would have brought home especially when I am pregnant.
After sometime when the father of the house has gone back for the tests, you realize that if the lady is positive they will then say as a lady you are the one who brought the disease and you get arrested. There is no proof that you are the one who brought the disease in the family.
Therefore, as women we are saying this should be removed so that we do not punish women. I know that we do not have any proof at the moment where we can track who brought the disease in the home.
*HON. MUDARIKWA: When I debate on this issue -as married men, it helps us that we should amend a lot of things. What I really want to work with is the marriage age of young girls. Child marriage is a problem in Zimbabwe because birth certificates can now be given at offices which are a distance. If a person is said to have married an underage without a birth certificate because the birth certificate is the start of everything. A lot of children do not have birth certificates. They are the ones who are getting married early so we should say that in those hospitals or schools, birth certificates should be issued within 24 hours so that it is easy for our parents.
This issue of child marriages - as a father of girls who are educated is not a good thing. Firstly, here it says that a child who is married being under – a child cannot look after a child, so this is not allowed and it is not good for a child to look after another child. This adds to the challenges that we have, but the problem of people getting married early is that you do not see a man who is married under 18, it only happens to girls because of poverty. We should tackle this issue of poverty. After that we should tackle the issue of education so that our people are well educated. We are not going to school so as to speak English but our people should learn to do skilful jobs so that they are able to look after themselves and will not be lured by sweets.
The other challenge that we have is that in our villages, families have broken down. The leaders are no longer there. The fathers and mothers are no longer there. There are no father and mother heads in the families because whatever happens in these homes they will not be any peace. Also, these churches should teach people on how important the families are, not how donations are important. We should also teach people that when it comes to falling in love, God is not involved as it only involves two people and God is not involved at all. What is happening in some religions is that some men are saying, ‘God says’, and when someone is as young as 15 to 16 years and someone says,
‘God says that you should fall in love with so and so’, and because of your love for God, you will end up falling for that person because the girl believes that is her entrance into heaven.
The other issue pertains to relatives especially the aunts – if the aunt is married and fails to conceive. She will take a young girl in order to support her family. So, you should not look for someone because marriage is not a cooperative. A lot of things happen when it comes to love affairs but it is our attitudes that is fueling all this. In Africa, we are propagating child marriages. There is an issue of challenges that are being faced by women in a polygamous marriage that they should be allowed to attend school – it is very important. Education is very important and should be encouraged for women to continue to be educated because they will be enlightened and have peace of mind.
Many a times when we encounter these challenges, you will find that children are staying with grandmothers whilst their mothers are in the towns. The grandmothers will not be having much control on the children but we want mothers to be together with their children because you love them. Some people said that those who are in polygamous relationships want them but we cannot have laws that limit polygamous marriages. The issue of having several wives sometimes helps because when you look at the population, we have more women as compared to men. So, when you refer to the Bible – it states that, ‘Go and multiply’.
As politicians, this is where we get our votes from. The children who are being born today will be voters come 2040 but we are saying that we should be pro-poor in our policies in this House. We need to verify how much is being channeled to the rural areas to help the girl child in the national budget? How much is going to assist mothers who are looking after their families because so many stages are involved in looking after children? When a mother is empowered then she has control over her children.
The other issue that we want to address is curbing child marriages. When you meet a girl, many a time as African men, we do not ask for the girl’s age but only ask for the totem – age does not come into play in a relationship. So there should be a system in place that we encourage people to steer clear from young girls. The system should also include church choirs that children under the age of 18 years old should not sing in the choirs. People should be made aware that under 18 year olds are still children and should not be approached in terms of love.
Many children are dying at child birth. Madam Speaker as Parliament, we should see what we can do. The responsible committee should come up with ways on how to stop child marriages. Our people, with the GMO type of foods that are locally available nowadays, if you are a big framed person then you will sire big children and short people will sire short people. Children who come across these challenges are sired by people like Hon. Porusingazi and myself, because we produce big babies. When they are in Form Four, they will be looking like grown-ups.
So, people should be taught through the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, our political parties and also marriage officers. In our churches that we have nowadays, some of them are promoting homosexuality that gays and lesbians should now be marriage officers. This is bad because we are encroaching on other cultures – hiding behind religion. If we allow that, we will find our population depleting.
So the influence of other cultures in our laws should be looked at and our law making process should also be looked at because we have voluntary organisations that have a hand in that because of their own interests. In our culture, a woman is married into a family and as black people; we remain as black people with our own cultural ways of living that are being spoiled by our current ways of living.
Finally, I want to thank people who are in marriages, those who are not in marriages and those who participated in marriage and are contributing in this debate. It shows that as Parliament we are doing what the people want because we have seen people who have not contributed now contributing, which means that what is taking place is what we should encourage that people should live together amicably and peacefully in their homes. I want to thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice. So on this issue, you should ask those who have the experience. Thank you.
+HON. NKOMO: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this
opportunity. I would like to add a few words to what has already been said by others. In most cases men do not agree to marry the women that they live with, they divorce them or they run away. So what I am saying is that if couples live together for five to ten years, they should automatically be qualified to be taken as married or they should be forced to do so.
There is need to respect the marriage union and it should no longer be referred to as marriage union but customary marriage. When I say customary, I mean that it should be respected because most people look down upon this kind of union. In addition, there should be the creation of a database of all marriages such that we avoid people getting married over and over again with multiple partners. People should be allowed to marry just once and not twice or more than that. Thank you.
**HON. F. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me
this opportunity to say something on this Marriage Bill. In civil partnerships, there must be clarity. Every marriage should be a standalone marriage to protect those who are not in these unions because we stand and we represent those who are not married and those who aspire to get married. All these people deserve protection under the law.
Looking again at the Marriages Bill which clarifies that young children cannot get married, there is a law which says that when young children are married or get into marriage, the law clearly says that they are allowed to opt out of such a marriage. As Government, we need to look at that issue. The Marriages Bill should be juxtaposed with SADC marriage law because you discover that when young girls are married – when they opt out of such marriages sometimes they are at a disadvantage. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I have heard a lot
that has been debated but I only have one thing which I did not hear of, which is the criminalisation of willful transmission of HIV/AIDs. This has come to me as a shock because these people will be in love when they infect each other. What we are seeing these days is that when some are being circumcised and the woman is not circumcised, it means they will be infecting each other because one is receiving and the other is passing on. We want this to be looked into.
They should live us like that. If we die, we die together in love. School going children are being followed; they are falling in love at school and the girl is not protected. The boy is protected through circumcision and so, that should be looked into because that is discrimination. What we are saying is that the boy is protected and the girl is left to die but besides that, let us analyse the marriages of these children. Children under 18 years are still very young and tender. They should be taught on how to prevent themselves.
If we allow them to engage in sexual activities, it means we have allowed them to die, but if we give them the protection so that they are protected it is far much better. What we are saying is that this marriage should be done culturally following our traditions. In Zimbabwe, when someone is married it means that the two families now know each other. These days people are just living together and you will know the other family when someone is sick which is not good. There should be a strong law which governs marriages to be respected according to our culture. Even those on civil marriages also want their families to participate.
Those who want to get married traditionally should get married culturally according to our tradition. Some are getting to know each other through ‘live-ins’ - that is not good. It should be stopped forthwith. In the western countries, they just stay together but in Zimbabwe we use our culture and tradition. Lobola must be paid and parents should know each other so that marriage is respected. We want marriages that are honoured so that children are known traditionally. Even if our chiefs are going to be marriage officers, they should marry couples according to our culture. The in-laws should know each other. We want things that promote our culture in Zimbabwe. Thank you.
*HON. RAIDZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would want to add my voice on the Marriages Bill. I would like to thank Hon. Members for the job they are doing towards the enacting of the Bill. Certain issues came up in different constituencies, like the issue of young girls getting married. We discovered that in most cases parents were involved in marrying off children. They even encourage children to get married. The Bill emphasises that whoever participates in such deeds will be prosecuted under the laws of the land.
The other point is that marriages are found in different constituencies in different areas. This is an advantage to those who are married, which means that everyone who is married can and should approach these marriage officers. We will be given 12 months to go and register marriages. This works in favour of the married couple and it will demystify marriage in such a manner that it will be clear whether one is married or not. However, when you are married, this should be registered. There should be evidence that you are married so that there are no dubious and devious men and women who go around claiming not to be married yet they will be married. However, in certain cases such people have been found to be married. Registering marriages eliminates such challenges. With such a database, a potential wife or husband can search for the name of their spouse so that they know their status. This will bring integrity to marriages because people will be afraid of being discovered.
At the moment, everyone is doing what they think is best for them. If the law passes, it will demystify such issues. The Marriages Bill comes at an opportune time when marriages will be registered and it will be clear as to whether one is married or not. The Marriages Bill will work in favour of bringing integrity to marriages. Madam Speaker, I would like to emphasise the point that this Bill comes at such an opportune time. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MASUKU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of view concerning the issue of marriage is that when a man comes to pay bride price, they should be told to get married there and then. If they just pay bride price and do not get married, by the end of the day they do not proceed to do so. In my own point of view, I think that this process of marriage should be done and handled on the same day that the man pays the bride price. Those are my views. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 to 34 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order Number 35 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ABOLITION OF DEATH PENALTY
HON. D. SIBANDA: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House;-
COGNISANT of the sanctity of the right to life and that it should be enjoyed by every human being;
FURTHER COGNISANT that some innocent people are given a
death penalty after they fail to defend themselves and prove their innocence in a court of law; and
AWARE that the death penalty has been a contentious issue the world over with a number of countries opting to scrap it from their statutes;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the Executive to abolish the
death penalty.
HON. PARADZA: I second.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
want to thank you for affording me this opportunity to discuss a very sensitive issue which cuts across the world. Madam Speaker, I want to stand here today as an abolitionist and I will talk about life. Life is a gift from God. Life is also number one in our fundamental rights in the bill of rights in our Constitution, Section 48 and also represent human dignity upon ourselves. No matter how many mistakes I make Madam Speaker, life will always be important; I will always treasure life.
Madam Speaker, we have since seen that for the past 12 years, there is no execution which has been done in Zimbabwe and we have got 81 of our own brothers, husbands, et cetera who are on the death row and nothing has happened. Nothing has been done to them in terms of execution, which then clearly shows that it will be much easier for Zimbabwe to follow the rest of the world.
Madam Speaker, some of those who are on the death row are not there because they have committed offences. They are there because of misjudging. Judges are also human beings and are bound to make mistakes just like anybody else. Madam Speaker, I have done several case studies. I have been to several countries following up issues of execution. At times as human beings, others will be executed because of political reasons. Those who are in control can control even the justice system then a death sentence is passed on an innocent person. Others are there because they simply cannot get representation, they have no one to represent them or they do not have monies to pay lawyers.
I always think of Mbuya Nehanda Madam Speaker, during the colonial era that if Mbuya Nehanda could have had a competent lawyer, maybe those who are older than us could have seen her. However, because there was no lawyer and whoever to stand for Mbuya Nehanda, there she was, she was executed. It can also be used by those who have got the power to fix those without power and cannot defend themselves.
As a Christian, I remind the hon. House that when God creates, he does not create junk, he creates human beings and life is like a present from God and should be treasured. Mistakes are done, if you look at these days because of poverty, people are not working; they do all sorts of things and make mistakes. They are therefore executed. Most of our children now are misusing drugs and there are cultural drawbacks and unemployment which can lead someone to make huge mistakes in such a way that at the end of the day, they are executed.
Madam Speaker, I want to talk about the hidden victims which according to me are the little ones. The children of a father who is on a death row, how do they feel? Do they talk about it at school or in the community to say, our father is on a death row or is going to be executed? We have never heard them talk but we know they are there, how are they feeling at home, do they discuss it at home, how is it like? Even that person who is on the death row, how is he/she feeling? This is what I normally think of every time. I have had an opportunity of meeting one or two persons who were on the death row by mistake, it hurts if they tell their stories Madam Speaker. At the end of the day, if my father is executed, what will become of me, I then start begging in the streets. What does that mother or wife become when the breadwinner is gone maybe because of a mistaken judgment in the first place.
I therefore call for a moratorium for those who are on a death row, the 84, I had said 81, they are 84 who are on the death row. Considering that for the past 14 years, Zimbabwe had not executed, we therefore call for the Government to take it into their heart and think of the hidden victims, the children and families and forgive.
Madam Speaker, I would also like to invite my fellow colleagues who are here to be abolitionists and become one and find it in their hearts to join the rest of the world to say no to the death penalty. Killing will put an end to the opportunity to reform. We can find better ways of punishment like life imprisonment. I remember in Egypt at one time there was an outcry to say that they executed about 5 or10 people in a day and those who were executed were between the ages of 28 and below. Imagine that people can reform, they have killed a soldier, a lawyer, a teacher or someone who is productive. There is need for us as Zimbabwe to take cognisant of that. They can be trained whilst in prison, they can go to school and continue with education or be rehabilitated until they become better people.
I stand here Madam Speaker as a mother. We give birth as mothers and carry our little ones for 9 months, give birth and we do not kill. If someone is killed in Ndebele we say we get isihelo. Even if I am related to that person, the moment I hear that a person has been executed, I get that isihelo in Ndebele, which means that I will get those labour pains.
Madam Speaker I am happy that you are also a woman sitting on that Chair and you know the pains that I am talking about.
Noting that it has been 14 years, I am also glad that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is here and 14 years without execution in Zimbabwe also rings a bell. Madam Speaker, allow me to read my resolutions;
- I advocate for policy determination to abolish the death penalty;
- To call upon all Parliamentarians to promote human rights on the abolition of the death penalty;
- Need for Parliamentary networks, use of international networks and different organisations to end the death penalty;
- Need for political will to intervene; which is of paramount importance Madam Speaker;
- Call for moratorium to ensure that no life be taken until a proper assessment of the criminal justice system can be made.
- We commit to taking every legislative measure towards abolishing the death penalty entirely or removing mandatory capital punishment reducing the number of capital crimes and creating opportunities for rehabilitation instead of retribution;
- We commit to using our voices as representatives of our people to raise awareness about the death penalty in our constituencies and with our fellow citizens and in so doing, to fight misconceptions and unfounded arguments;
- Overally, we commit to using all our Parliamentary prerogatives and our privileged position to promote the human rights and abolition of the death penalty in our country and throughout the world.
Today, I take this opportunity to call upon our fellow
Parliamentarians to join the struggle. I invite my colleagues who are not abolitionists to promote the dialogue and listen to survivors of the death penalty and their families. To victims of crime, to judges and experts, let us open up and support the right of every human being to life and to dignity. Madam Speaker, before I sit down, I also want to say, judges are there as judges but who are we to judge harshly when God cannot judge us harshly? I thank you, ngiyabonga.
HON. PARADZA: Thank you very much Hon. Paradza. Madam Speaker, the death penalty is old-fashioned and should never be in our statutes. Why do I say that? You all know the story of our President; he was nearly hanged and so on. I happened to be in my other life as a journalist in 1995, I had a one-on-one interview with him and he said he does not want anything about the death penalty. So, we have a President who is against the death penalty. I think we should all support the scrapping of the death penalty in our statutes because the President is in full support of that. I am also in full support of that and we do not need it, it is archaic, old-fashioned or primitive and it must never ever be in our modern statutes. Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this
opportunity to support, to a very limited extent, the motion moved by Hon. D. Sibanda on the importance of abolishing the death penalty. I will say that death penalty should be abolished, particularly for political reasons. Our President was supposed to have been hanged but because of his age, death penalty was removed. So, I am saying death penalty can only be removed for people who will be incarcerated for political reasons.
However, to a very large extent, death penalty is very important to stay because we have witnessed several incidences of people who kill other people for no apparent reason. I will give an example of the Machete wielding people. At one time they killed five people in Mazowe, Kwekwe and Kadoma. It was by design to kill. Killing another person is ungodly, evil and devilish. The Bible is against killing another person; it says “Thou shall not kill”. History will judge us harshly if we allow people who kill other people for no apparent reason not to be hanged.
There is need for them to be hanged as a deterrent measure for those who would want to commit such crimes. It is the duty of the judiciary to assess different circumstances as they obtain on the ground. I heard Hon. D Sibanda saying that it is important to abolish the death penalty because some people will be innocent, they may not even afford lawyers.
However, those people who are tried for killing, everyone is represented. There are lawyers for human rights who would represent everyone who will be tried for murder. So I would argue and say that death penalty is important, particularly on situation where people would perpetrate violence. In some cases, we have seen atrocities being conducted on women and children particularly girls. Somebody would rape a girl of 12 or 14 years, nonagenarian woman in the 80’s is raped and killed. A case in point, what happened in Amiva, Chegutu where an old doctor, Octogenarian was killed together with his granddaughter aged 14.
So, we cannot allow these people not to be killed. Those who want to commit such atrocities; this will act as a deterrent measure. No one is absolved for killing. Killing is bad; it is a sin against humanity so it has to remain on our Constitution because death penalty is necessary as it would be prevent would be perpetrators for violence.
*HON. CHIKUKWA: Madam Speaker, I would like to talk about
the death penalty. My view point is that the Bible in the Old Testament says that if someone kills then they should equally be punished by death. However, in the New Testament, the Bible says that our sins were forgiven at Calvary.
When someone is accused of murder, if that person has a legal representation, then that person might get away with the crime but for those who do not have legal representation, they might be disadvantaged. I would like to propose that those who are accused of such cases should be incarcerated for life.
The other point is that we need to allow those who investigate on issues related to the death penalty to do a thorough investgation because in some cases some people might be accused yet it will be a case of self defence. The death penalty should be looked into. I personally do not want the death penalty; however, we want a punitive sentence. There are some people who brag about killing saying it does not matter whether I am incarcerated or not. I thank you.
HON. MUSHAYI: I would also want to add my voice to the
contributions on the abolition of the death penalty. I, myself, am an abolitionist. First of all, if we look at the facts that have been presented by Hon. D. Sibanda in terms of saying we have gone for 14 years with no execution; imagine the trauma that the person is going through. We have put them under so much stress. We have made a decision that we are going to execute them but they have been there for 14 years.
We need to put an end to the death penalty. Death penalty does not resolve anything. Suppose I am the relative of the person who has been killed, does it mean that if I kill the person that has killed them it replaces the victim and gives me either my brother or my sister who would have been killed? It does not.
Therefore, we are not bringing a resolution by sentencing these people to death; rather we are creating another problem by taking away a life. I would therefore recommend that if there are cases like these, we give them a moratorium and then we let them have longer sentences in
jail.
The reason why we take people to prison is so that we rehabilitate and correct them but if we then sentence a person to death penalty, we are saying there is no room whatsoever for us to correct and rehabilitate. Death penalty is a punishment on its own and takes away life. If we are going to say we are a nation that protects the sanctity of life, we therefore cannot be seen to be again taking a life. We have to come up with measures that allow the persons to be rehabilitated, to also learn because we can only learn if we have cases that we will be using to say look at what is happening to so and so. They have been sentenced to spend so many years in prison instead of saying we sentenced them to a death penalty.
Lastly, if we have 84 lives that are just hanging in limbo and we call ourselves a responsible nation – that is unfair. We have to put a conclusion to what our position is as a nation. If we are going to sentence them to death, we then execute and go ahead but given the fact that we have gone for 14 years with no execution at all, it is a clear indication that as a nation, we really do not believe in death penalty. If we believed in death penalty, we would have taken all measures to make sure that the 84 that are on death row are executed.
I also think that death penalty is primitive, is archaic. We should move with the times as a nation and at least join the league of nations that have abolished death penalty.
HON. SHAVA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My view point on
the death penalty is that one who kills should also be killed in the same punitive action that should be taken against him/her. Some kill deliberately knowing that the law protects them. However if they know that killing would lead to their death also it would reduce cases of murder. I would like to say that killing differs because some might cause the death of others by mistake so this should be looked into. If you kill deliberately using machetes such a person should be given the death penalty. If this happens this will reduce cases of murder. I thank you madam speaker.
+HON. MKANDALA: I would also want to add my voice to this
issue. I think that if someone kills they should be punished for it because if we look at the people who murder others, you realise that there are men who rape elderly women and after that murder. There are also cases where one fakes hiring of a taxi and when they get to the bushes they steal the driver’s money, murders the driver and get away with the car. I think the law should ensure that they are also killed because they deserve it. What kind of a nation are we becoming where there are so many murders? We read about them every day in the papers. There are people who will be walking innocently and they are murdered yet the murderer does not even know the victims. In brief I would say that murderers should be murdered as well. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Speaker, in my view
this motion does not arise and I will state why I think this motion does not arise. This motion seeks to have Parliament debate whether it is right or not right for us to have a death penalty. Yet in 2013 the people of Zimbabwe wrote a Constitution and in that Constitution they made themselves clear as to what they wanted with regards to the sanctity of life. In Section 48 (1) of the Constitution they say every person has the right to life. In Section 48 (2) the people of Zimbabwe said there may be law that may permit death penalty to be imposed on a person convicted of murder committed in aggravating circumstances, but no women shall be subjected to a death penalty.
The very same people of Zimbabwe in May 2013, went to Section
56 of the Constitution and this is what they said “there is equality and non discrimination”. So all persons are equal before the law and have the right to equal protection and the benefit of the law. So what does it mean? If the women are protected in Section 48 (2) so whatever happens to the woman in this Section must happen to the man in terms of Section 56. So, if we are in agreement that Section 48 of the law is saying there must be right to life and we are in agreement that no woman must be subjected to death penalty, therefore if women and men are equal, then there should be no death penalty. It is as simple as that and as Parliament we have no right to air out our emotions. This is in our statutes. The motion is supposed to motivate for the alignment of the Constitution and the laws of Zimbabwe. That is my thinking.
I will move over to the issue where the mover of the motion says about 84 inmates are awaiting death penalty and they have not been executed. At the helm of the hammer which is supposed to consent to the taking away of someone’s life is a person who escaped the death penalty himself. Hon. Paradza, in his submission highlighted that the current President of this country despite political innuendos to say is he or not but in terms of legalistic terms he is the occupier of the number 1 seat in Zimbabwe. He escaped the death penalty. The issue that we have now is that because of his prerogative of mercy, he finds it in his own conscience not to place a hammer and say this person must die because someone also placed a hammer and said this person must not die. So, we have a political leadership in the country across the political divide which is in agreement that people must not be killed. We understand the emotions which are around the issues of mashurugwi and people who murder people for criminal purposes, but we must still respect the sanctity of life. We have got various methods of making sure that we reign in murderers in our community. Murderers have been there since time immemorial. In fact, most of us go to church every Sunday to pray to a man who was actually murdered but he forgave those who had murdered him. So we must be able to preserve the
sanctity of life.
I go further to the issue of eight people in America who were wrongfully accused. Cameron Todd Willingham, in 1992 was convicted of arson murder in Texas. He was believed to have intentionally set a fire that killed three children but in 2004 he was put to death, unfortunately. The Texas Forensic Commission later found out that the evidence was misinterpreted and they concluded that none of the evidence that was used was valid. As it turned out the fire was actually by accident. There is also one young black American David Wayne Spence who was electrocuted by 5000 volts. Young guy, 15 years of age and it turned out that the murder of the young girl which he had been accused of when the judgement after his execution in 1997 was later on reviewed, it turned out that the weapon which was used was overweight for his body and could not have been used by a young boy of 15 years. So, these cases speak to issues of wrongful judgement because the judges who sit in the chambers are also human beings and they can err, depending on the judgement before them. I would motivate that we must not leave it to the judges as they are prone to human error for them to decide between life and death.
In our country, Zimbabwe, the crime of treason carries with it a death sentence. In 2019, 21 of your Hon. Members sitting in this House were charged with treason. It then turns out that treason becomes a tool to whip your political opponents into submission because they fear death. So you are now reducing your political competitors because you have put death as the ultimate prize in front that whoever wants to challenge you will face death. Why are we allowing ourselves to use death as a penultimate weapon to cow down your political opponents? I will move again for the abolishment of the death penalty as it is carried in the treason sentence so that we free authoritative voices and the opposition to the throne which has been there since time immemorial. People have died and been hanged simply for opposing the throne and we do not want that. Madam Speaker, I will move to join the team that has been advocated for, that we must all be advocates for the anti death penalty. I thank you.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Hon. Speaker, I want to add my voice on the death penalty issue. Suppose you meet a person who has been sentenced to death and you are supposed to stay a day with him, you will see that the pain that he feels, he would have been sentenced already to death. The time that he will meet members of his family, you will see that if those people who sentence people to death, they would not be able to return the life back if they discover that they made a mistake because if someone has been sentenced to death that is the end and then later on you realise that you made a mistake, what do you do? There is no reverse.
So what I think is, those who moved this motion seriously thought about it that this nation will end up being a country of people who are always mourning or people who are not free because they will be afraid that they will be sentenced to death. I think that if you look at the convicts like murderers, those people who would have murdered, probably they know the circumstances leading to the murder - the two of them, the one murdered and the murderer or they are people who would have just been accused and will not be able to exonerate themselves on how it happened, then you come in and say we should sentence him to death.
I think the person who should kill all people should be God. I think all those people who have been sentenced to death, especially these 84, you will find that for these four years we could not execute the death penalty because it is not our culture as Zimbabweans to kill each other that we should execute what was sentenced 14 years ago. I think we found that it is not fair. Suppose we remove the death penalty for these 84, I think this penalty should be removed and they are charged with life imprisonment.
I once heard when the President was talking about the death penalty which was sentenced on him. The moment that he talks about it you find that his face changes because he has lived with it from 1963 and you see that it really affects him up to today, which means it is a heavy thing. So I was urging all the Hon. Members that we should unite and tell the world.
I know that in 2013 we were full of emotions that those who kill should be killed, but those who carry out the executions have also committed the crime. He has killed as a job but still he has killed. How do you define killing? I think the death penalty should be viewed as a thing that does not work and which does not end the killing of each other. What we should do is to educate people that killing each other is not a good thing, but those who deserve the death penalty we should come up with other ways.
We should go and sit down with a person who has murdered and find out what has led him to do that and then we will find ways of protecting those who that spirit would have befallen on them. A thing that really touches me is that we kill basing on the evidence that we have been given which might not be true.
*HON. HON. N. NDLOVU: Ko kana zviri correct – [Laughter] -
*HON. TOGAREPI: It is the Chief Whip who is talking like that in Parliament. I was thinking, Madam Speaker, the people who have committed any crimes that deserve the death penalty for now to uphold the death penalty is not good for a country and it does not get rid of killings.
If we go to all the countries you will find that there are people who have been executed, but people are still committing those crimes. It did not deter anyone when the spirit had befallen on them. The death penalty does not stop people from killing each other, so I do not think it is a good thing for us to remain with it. Thank you.
+HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I will speak in Ndebele so that my relatives can also understand me. I want to speak as a victim. I had twins and in 2008 one of them was killed. He was killed by people who had asked for a lift in his car. They had said that they wanted to go to Mpopoma but as they moved to Mpopoma, two were at the back and one was in the front in the passenger seat. So they told him that they wanted to drop off. They took a rope and strangled him and then the ones at the back pulled him back and one went to the steering wheel. When they were about to approach the cemetery at Number 6 the fuel finished. So they just searched him and got everything from him and they closed the car and went. We looked for him all over and we were only told by police about what happened that he was murdered and he had been strangled with a rope.
Therefore, Hon. Speaker, it is difficult to support the view that a person who murders another person should not be killed, but what I am saying is that it should come with circumstances of the gravity of the case. There are others that murder intentionally. The magistrate cannot judge on whether one should be killed if they have not killed intentionally. If the magistrate says there should be the death penalty they would have looked into it thoroughly that the person would have murdered intentionally.
I am therefore speaking as a victim and I am affected by the issue of the death penalty. As it is right now I have one first born but they were two boys. One was murdered. When I heard some Hon. Members saying that the murderers should not be put on death penalty I wondered.
I say that not all of them should be killed but there are different circumstances that should be looked into and there should be checks and balances. I thank you.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Firstly, I
would like to thank the Minister for bringing this motion to Parliament. As Members of Parliament, this has given us time to consider this issue and I believe that it is high time we look at it. What I want to emphasise on is that you discover that if you take 14 years as a family discussing a certain issue, it shows that the issue is contentious. So if we spent 14 years having not sent anyone on death row as Zimbabwe, it means it is not good to pass a death sentence on anyone. If this was a good thing the people on the death row would have been hanged, the fact that they have not been hanged shows that it is a difficult situation.
Madam Speaker, if you watch ‘Another Chance’ on television you discover that every day of someone who is on death row is a difficult day. Given a chance I think if possible, every member of the National Assembly or as Parliament, we need to push the Government so that these people get their rights as citizens. I was touched when Hon.
Chikwinya spoke about selective application of the law. At times we want this and the next day we want something else. As women, we were spared of the death penalty. My question is - do we want men to be given the death penalty? Some Members of Parliament who are in this Chamber right now are saying men are fewer than women.
Madam Speaker, if we are genuine as women, we need to move a motion advocating for women to also receive the death penalty. We cannot move for a law which protects us as women and not protecting men as well. We need to align these laws with the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I believe that there should be equality and fairness in the justice system. It is true that in our country we fear God, so we must not pass the death penalty.
If we see that someone has committed murder, then that person should be given a life sentence because a life sentence means that the person cannot go back to society and commit a similar crime. There are some people who commit crimes at the age of 80 and this means that the person will die in jail. I am of the opinion that the death penalty should be scrapped. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to repeat the point that we know that there are many people who died, some during the Gukurahundi and others in 2008 having succumbed to political violence. Some of these people who committed these crimes were never arrested and are still alive – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] My thoughts are that there are some people who are still alive and it is known that such people committed those crimes. Madam Speaker, as I see it, the law is falling short. Yes, it is painful that I lost a relative during Gukurahundi or during any other period but passing a death penalty Madam Speaker Ma’am means that we become mini gods.
Let me go to a different issue which was mentioned by another Hon. Member in this House. There is an issue that in these political parties for example, when party A is in power, party B will suffer - we need to consider that in the near future there might be party B in power. This might lead to laws being applied even in retrospect. If such laws were existing, some political activists might have succumbed to the death penalty, for example the late Morgan Richard Tsvangirai at one time faced treason charges. Another Hon. Member said that the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe at one point also faced a death penalty being accused of treason. My view is that; let us give a deterrent punishment, for example life in jail. It is only God who can take a life.
Supposed Madam Speaker Ma’am, later the law discovers that I was
innocent my children are the ones who will end up suffering.
Madam Speaker, yes we know that sometimes we take issues personally. Let me draw the House back to a certain period, a period where commissions were set up to reconcile people because Government wanted reconciliation between people. If we revenge, the men that we want to be given death sentence are the same men who do not want women to be given death sentence. I would like to support Hon.
Sibanda and I say no to the death penalty.
*HON. MADZIVA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, murder is murder; it
does not matter whether you are a man or a woman, you must be given a death penalty. I would also like to say that in some cases men rape their young children even at the age of 8. That is death, it is like killing that child and you deserve a death penalty if you are such a person. A person who kills a young child deserves a death penalty. We can say all these things because some people may not have experienced murder at first hand. Some people were burnt in their houses. If you find or you discover a person who committed arson and killed someone, what would you do? My point is that the person should face a death penalty. I thank you.
*HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving
me this opportunity to add my voice to this debate which was brought to this House by Hon. D. S. Sibanda; it is an issue which touches me. The death penalty is very unfair because if there is misapplication of law there is no remedial action. If someone has been given a death penalty and that person is hanged then that person will die in vain despite being innocent. Death sentence should be scraped because of that particular reason. However, I will give several reasons.
The second point is that various researches that were done regarding the death sentence to ascertain whether a death sentence reduced murderers revealed that there is no evidence that a death penalty can reduce murder cases. For example in Canada, it abolished the death sentence in 1976. So from that particular year up to 2016, it was discovered that murder cases were actually reduced during that period.
This evidence helps us to see that even when a country scraps the death sentence it does not mean that murder cases will decrease. I would like to say that as Zimbabwe, let us learn from this case study which is a good study. My other point is that when we look at all the ways that are used to kill those on death roll, there is no good way used even though a person can be shot, given cyanide or any other way. All those ways are violent and so we are not supposed to support violence.
Furthermore, death sentence violates the right to life which is in the Constitution on Section 48 as mentioned by Hon. Chikwinya, which clearly states that everyone has a right to life. I would have loved if we end there at that particular section which says that everyone has a right to life. Section 86 of the Constitution says that it gives limitations of the rights and freedoms. Section 86 (3) states that no law may limit the rights enshrined in this chapter; it goes on to say that the right to life except to the extent specified in section 48.
Hon. Minister, my plea is that when we go through the Bill, let us remove that particular part and end where it says, the right to life should not be violated. The right to life is divine having been given life. If we decide to apply the death sentence, we are not different from murderers, we are the same. The right to life should not be violated by anyone. I want to ask a question - when someone has been killed after being given the death sentence, who suffers? Is it the person who dies or those who are left behind? So why should we punish those who are left behind? I believe that there are many ways of rehabilitating and removing murderers in society.
I know there are people who have murderers’ thoughts. What we need to do is, we need to remove them from society as a nation and as God-fearing people, we must not revenge. We must not say that such people deserve to die because we will be like murderers. Let us live killings to God. What we can do is to remove those people from society.
Looking at our lives as black people you will discover that there is no point in killing a killer in our African culture because this is an alien practice which was brought by imperialists.
When I think about the issue which concerns our President, who in 1966 having participated in the bombing of a train, after receiving a death sentence his colleagues were killed. However, the President survived because he was underage. I always think that had he been given a death sentence and had he been hanged then, maybe we would not be having such a visionary leader. For us to continue enjoying the ruler-ship and leadership of President Mnangagwa, it is because he survived the death penalty because of being underage.
Madam Speaker Maam, my plea is that this issue should be aligned to the Constitution through the Constitution Amendment Bill. The world consists of plus or minus 195 countries. 106 countries have abandoned the death sentence. This includes countries like Guinea. As Zimbabwe, we must demonstrate that we are learned and we are intelligent by removing the death sentence.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House
adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 18th February, 2020.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to draw the
attention of the Senate to an error on page 114 of the Order Paper where notice of motion number 4 has been incorrectly captured. The correct notice of motion should read:
THAT WHEREAS Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign States or Governments or international organization shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the additional protocol to the Comprehensive
Safeguards Agreement Protocol was approve by the International
Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors in 1997;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is part to the Non-
Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty (NTP) but has not signed the additional protocol; and
WHEREAS Article 17 of the protocol provides that the protocol shall enter into force on the date on which the agency receives from
Zimbabwe written notification that Zimbabwe’s statutory entry of constitutional requirements for entry into force have been met or upon signature by the representatives of Zimbabwe and the agency;
NOW THEREFORE in terms of Section 327 (2) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid convention be and is hereby approved.
COLLECTION OF SAMSUNG TABLETS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I would like to inform
the Senate that the Information Communication Technology (ICT) Department wishes to advise Hon. Senators who have not collected their Samsung Tablets, that officers issuing such tablets will be stationed at the Members’ Dinning to assist with connectivity to Wi-Fi and passwords.
ACCESSING ORDER PAPER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Please be reminded that
with effect from tomorrow, the Order Paper will be sent to your emails and can be accessed from your Samsung Tablets. Hard copies will not the distributed. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that Orders
of the Day, Nos. 1 to 5 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day are disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 45TH PLENARY
ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN
MAPUTO
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. HUNGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND HEALTH
FINANCING IN AFRICA
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the Pan- African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and health financing in Africa, held in Brazzaville, Congo from 11th to 12th July, 2019.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND
DEVELOPMENT ON THE PLIGHT OF PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES AND CHALLENGES FACED BY WOMEN AND
GIRLS WITH DISABILITIES IN ZIMBABWE
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the plight of people with disabilities and challenges faced by women and girls with disabilities in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President.
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Ncube for the motion that she brought into this House. I want to add a few issues and support this motion especially on people living with disabilities, looking at the women and girls. In the rural communities where we live, we realise that if the mother or the girl child is disabled, it affects the household. In our culture, a home comes about as a result of a woman but if a woman is disabled, it becomes difficult to run that home. Some children are forced to say certain things that do not apply to them because they are disabled. For example, a child can be forced to get pregnant and whoever looks after that can betroth that child to a man because they know that that child cannot talk because she is disabled. Those are some of the things that are affecting children in the rural communities that we reside in. In schools where children attend, the infrastructure is not disability friendly and children do not have wheel chairs to more from point A to B. the hygiene is compromised.
If we call for a meeting in relation to people living with disabilities it is not accessible to those with disabilities and requires able bodied people to attend. All the things that we talk about pertaining to people with disability are discussed with able bodied people in the absence of people with disabilities. We are talking to people who are not concerned or are not living under such conditions.
When it comes to food aid, they do not get it because where they have to register, they cannot get there especially women, they cannot walk to those centres. Some children are intelligent but because of disability, they have failed to complete their education because there are no facilities in schools to address their disability programmes for them to proceed with school. Disability related to blindness, most schools lack in terms of infrastructure because there is no Braille. If a child is knowledgeable, you cannot extract or get to know what the child can do because the infrastructure is not available for them to learn in a friendly manner.
Whenever we come up with legislation, we should ensure that we mainstream disability in the legislation. I think everything that has to do with disability should help us to go and consult those living with disability in their places because they are people with rights like all of us. One can become disabled tomorrow. There are so many ways that one can become disabled. Some face road accidents and they end up without limbs. Let us consider the issue of people with disabilities seriously because we may be in that same category in future.
For children, sometimes they are unable to get married to the love of their lives because a family discourages them from getting married to a person with disability and that family will not take off. We forget that people living with disabilities are also people. There are some who are able bodied but have not been blessed with children but those with disability can actually give birth to children.
Let us not look down upon people with disabilities, be it in schools or churches, we should treat them the way we would want to be treated.
They we also created by God and we should respect them. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: May I also add my voice to what
has been said. Being disabled is something which is very unique. It can come at any time. In Ndebele, they say thou shall not laugh at a disabled person before you are old. Wherever you are at your station, you can be disabled. Even all of us who are seated here, we are disabled one way or another. All of us here take drugs for one ailment or another. In life, people look down upon the disabled because they do not understand anything about disability.
I have a child at the Post Office in Bulawayo who is disabled. I gave that child the name Sihle. Each time I go there and find her in bad mood and I greet her she smiles and gets happy. I know I will bring her things that she likes in life like sweets and porridge. I try to show her love as a mother. Sometimes I observe that people do not accommodate the disabled when we are travelling. Therefore, let us look at this particular issue at its proper perspective. As parents, let us also realise that at schools there are also pupils who are disabled, particularly the girl child. They do not have anything so we should take care of them. Mostly, they do not have proper undergarments so we should take note of that and help them. I am emphasising on the girl child but I am not forgetting the boy child as well. With those words Madam President, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity. I would like to extend my compliments for the New Year to you Madam President and everyone in this august Senate. I want to say a few things concerning people with disability but firstly I do not know what we call disability because it seems derogatory.
I say that because my husband became disabled when I least expected. He left home and went to work. A child came running. His superiors at work were unable to come and inform me of the injury that he had gone through. He was injured whilst at work when he was trying to lower a cable. They were about 13 of them and they were using their legs. In the process of lowering the cable, for those who went down, the weight was too much and his foot broke. There was dislocation between the foot and the leg.
I was listening to the Hon. Sen. Chief as he was speaking that as the Senate we should take those living with disability. Let us just imagine that it has come to us. Some of these things happen to us unknowingly. I do not know how we can assist our colleagues. Let us not be disappointed a lot by a person with disability. I do not know what would have come over some men who end up raping women with
disability. I pray that God’s spirit be upon us.
I want to thank Jairos Jiri who was able to round up people living with disability in order to offer assistance. Let us not look down upon our fellow brothers who live with disability. As I stand in this House, I am not as educated as some of the people with disability but if they are able, let us give them the opportunity to exercise their full potential. In areas that we stay, we have some of our colleagues who are looking after people with disability. Some of them are grandfathers or grandmothers.
They are under pressure as it is. Where others are able to go and queue for land, they are unable to go but they are people who are able to look after themselves and fend for themselves. We are the Government, what can we do about our fellow beings who are living with disability in Zimbabwe because we are just the same; we are equal. I want to thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the report by the Committee which toured centres with people living with disabilities. I am one of the committee members. Madam President, we heard a lot of concerns from these people and most of those were echoed in this House. I have stood up just to talk about some of the things we heard as we were travelling. Wherever we went, they were happy and excited that Parliament had remembered them and had visited them. I think it is one point that we scored.
There are other things that I will mention Madam President. They were happy that we had recognised them and that we had come to hear their concerns. They raised a number of concerns which I am not going to talk about. Secondly, they said that they do not want to hear people calling them people with disability. On the words mentioned by Hon. Sen. Moeketsi, I do not know how we can refer to them because they do not want to hear people calling them people with disability. They said we will make it a criminal offence if you call us the disabled.
As Parliament, we went round and we faced challenges Madam President. We had no one here at Parliament who was able to speak in sign language and they said that it shows that you do not see us as human beings. Honestly, as Parliament, such an institution we do not even have one person who can speak sign language and their question was, how are you going to hear our concerns? They were not happy about that Madam President.
Madam President, it is a painful scenario because their way of life is appalling. What I am saying is that legislation on people with disabilities should be amended to ensure that they get due recognition in this country. In all areas, you will find there are people with disabilities.
They also pointed out that when people are elected into Parliament, whether in Senate or National Assembly, they wanted to know the criteria on how people get into Parliament. Their argument was there are very few people who represent them in Parliament considering their huge numbers. They said having two or three people shows lack of seriousness and political will on our part. Madam President, this is what we also got as we went on the tours. These are issues that we need to address Madam President.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Madam President for this opportunity so that I also add my voice to this matter. The life being led by some disabled people is very difficult Madam President because there is no one who takes care or is alive to their issues. Some people even refer to them using some derogatory terms. We should realise that God created us differently. So, just like in the garment making industry, the way we are created, we are different patterns before God. It is particularly difficult for the child who is disabled. If the disabled person is a woman, it will be very difficult for her to take care of her family. If she is a girl, when she becomes mature, it becomes more difficult, no one takes care of her needs as a woman.
It is our wish that people be conscientised that they take care of the disabled, they are part of us. Again, these disabled girl children are abused by some men and they are intimidated so that they do not tell the truth about themselves. Some fathers take chances to abuse children because most of the time when we have a disabled child, they sit on wheelchairs and are unable to stand up and walk. So, even relatives tend to abuse them and tell them not to reveal anything that might have happened to them because they will be arrested. So, it is very embarrassing for an old man impregnating a 16-year old child. So, such children should be taught so that they know that people who abuse them should be arrested because there are a lot of children born by disabled parents but will never get to know their parents yet they will be alive.
I would like to thank the Government because of late, the disabled were not employed in Government. However, these days, they are employed. I would like to say, where I come from, there is a blind headmaster, the Government employed a deputy headmaster to help. At a hospital, there is someone also who leads rehabilitation and someone employed to assist them. In the Ministry of Education, disabled people are employed and I would like to applaud the Government for that because it realised that disabled people are looked down upon and rarely employed. Sometimes if they go to look for employment, they will be turned away because it is believed they should not be employed. However, these days, they look for employment and they get it. We also need to teach them that these days there are employment opportunities for them and they should also get an education. As the Senate, we should advocate that many schools cater for the education of the disabled persons so that they get an education in polytechnic colleges and vocational colleges so that they are trained on the education that can be helpful to them in future.
The other thing is, schools are very expensive these days and the Government should assist them so that when they go to school, they are able to learn and get the necessary assistance. They should also be taken care of so that their school fees is paid for first and they should be given food as a matter of priority because they are very important people.
When I consider this issue carefully, these are very important people to God because they rarely commit sin as they spend most of their time on wheelchairs; hence, they are free from any sins. So, we should respect these people and when we look at them, we should consider that they were created in the image of God.
We should also consider the fact that there are a lot of disabled people who may be unknown because some of them are hidden by their parents and guardians and not revealed. At one point, I saw a television clip from Mashonaland, where four children were actually crawling and the mother even looked disabled. Imagine such children being kept hidden and not revealed to the world because according to our culture, when a disabled child is born, there is a belief that it is because of witchcraft or a bad omen. So, children tend to be hidden indoors. So, it is important that we have a campaign that even disabled children are equally important; they are a gift from God. Such children should be taken to school and people should be told that all children should learn including those who are able to talk. Children who are not disabled should be taught to accept fellow disabled children.
We are all disabled but we tend to differ on where and how. So, the Creator knows the difference so that it does not look like the same pattern but in essence we are all disabled in one way or another. It is therefore important that, as this Hon. House, we should encourage them to get an education so that they get employment. I have heard some people say, this is a disabled person who is not even educated, how can they get employment? They can get employment if they go to school and train so that they are able to do work that can help them in future.
That can make the whole nation be respectful as a God-fearing country.
I would also want to request that there should be a ministry that concentrates only on disabled people’s affairs and not a mixed ministry because sometimes it is difficult for a non-disabled person to know or image all the needs of a disabled person. A disabled person will be able to understand and know what exactly they come across, including all the embarrassment that they encounter. So, a disabled person is in a better position to understand the needs of a fellow disabled person as well as what and how they need to be handled. There is need to know how many these people are including all those who are being hidden in houses. I know that there are some disabled children who are hidden in houses. Sometimes you hear that a child was born but was never seen outside simply because the child is disabled. So, it is important for the whole area to know and understand that a disabled child was born. I wish we all move forward and progress and accept since the Committee led by Hon. Sen. Ncube travelled around to appreciate the needs of disabled persons. So, such people should be treated as a matter of priority, especially in terms of employment opportunities. It is also important especially for females because everyone wishes to have a family and to take care of their family. Sometimes it is easier for the fathers or the men. When they are disabled, they can easily get married because the wife can take care of them but it is difficult when it is the other way round. When it is the woman who is disabled, it is very difficult for such people to understand.
I would like to thank the Hon. Member who raised such attention that a disabled Hon. Member from the upper House is taken care of by her husband. However, we should lead by example as Hon. Senators to respect and salute that man and I wish that all men should do such things.
In life, unfortunate events do happen, someone was able bodied before independence but soon after independence they became blind. This means that all of us here maybe able bodied today but tomorrow we might become disabled. It is not by choice but such unfortunate events do happen and sometimes it is because of God’s desire.
I would like to thank this Committee for going around the country and I wish they should go around and see all the other things that are hidden so that they get to appreciate and understand all the sufferings that women and girls go through. I do not mean that men may are not be disabled but the girls and women are the ones mostly affected by the disability that maybe in a household.
I heard an Hon. Senator saying that her husband is disabled and they are still staying together as husband and wife, therefore, we should also applaud her because that is a very good thing. It is a sign of humanity and as Zimbabweans, we must have that humility and love at heart because that is what gives us strength to take care of our beloved disabled relatives.
I would also like to thank the Hon. President for giving me this opportunity because this is a very important thing to talk about regardless of where we come from because even the churches have disabled people. As Zimbabweans, we must unite and chart the way forward with regards to the welfare of the disabled. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020
MOTION
REMOVAL OF ILLEGAL SANCTIONS IMPOSED ON ZIMBABWE
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the unconditional and immediate removal of the illegal economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND
CENTRAL (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND
CENTRAL (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th February, 2020.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MASHONALAND CENTRAL (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA), the
Senate adjourned at Eighteen Minutes past Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 19th December, 2019.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
RETIREMENT OF THE SERJEAN-AT-ARMS, MR. N. MARUFU
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that one of
our senior officers of Parliament, the Serjeant-At-Arms, Mr. Nicholas Marufu is retiring after 39 years of an illustrious service at Parliament.
Mr. Marufu will retire on 31st December, 2019.
It is probably the last time that he will lead the Speaker’s procession into this Chamber as we will be adjourning for our Christmas holidays at the end of today’ business. On behalf of this institution and on my behalf as the Presiding Officer, we wish him well in his endeavours as we bid him farewell. To him I say, we are most grateful for the diligent manner with which you executed your duties as a loyal and dedicated officer of Parliament.
I may add that Mr. Marufu is taking retirement leave together with 10 other senior members of staff who also have retired after an extension of three years of their service. We also wish them well – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear]-
HON. MURAI: Is it is a forced retirement or it is his wish? Sorry, I was not in the House, I just entered when you were reading and I am surprised as to why he is retiring.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you have made a very
serious indictment on yourself when it says that you should be in the House not later than ten minutes past two p. m, but I will favour you with an explanation. The senior staff members, the nine of them had served up to the age of 65, which is the legal age of pension; in other words, the pensionable age. After that, we did give them annual contract for three years. The 11 of them and now Treasury has given us concurrence to employ their successors. So it is 65 years plus three years on contract.
PETITION RECEIVED FROM MR. T. GOWERE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that on Wednesday, 18th December 2019, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Mr. T. Gowere, an inmate at the Harare Central Prisons requesting Parliament to enact legislation that abolishes the death penalty provided for in Section 48 (2) of the Constitution, amend
Section 47 of the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act [Chapter
9:23] and repeal Sections 337 to 342 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act [Chapter 9:07].
The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs”.
I have five Hon. Members who want to raise points of privilege. This is a joke, I am sorry, this is a joke. I want to be clear again. Points of privilege should be raised on the rights and privileges of Members who are threatened. So if you know you are not raising that, please do not stand up otherwise I will ask you to sit down in the middle of your presentation if you are not addressing the issues in the manner I have explained.
HON. MUSAKWA: I rise on a point of privilege. After the untimely death of the son of Hon. Madhuku on Tuesday morning, the burial is scheduled for tomorrow in Madhuku village in Bikita at 0900hrs. This is information for those who are willing to attend.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is acceptable, thank you.
HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: I rise on a point of privilege. We have lost some of our Hon. Members. We have been here in Parliament for almost one and a half years. What happens to their cars now that they are gone but their families still remain? What happens to the families of those who lost Hon. Members?
THE HON. SPEAKER: You mean Hon. Members who have
passed on?
HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Yes Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think the matter will be looked at case by case and it should be referred to the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders so that a decision is made in liaison with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. That indeed is a correct point of privilege.
HON. SVUURE: Thank you Mr Speaker Sir. My point of privilege was closely related to what Hon. Musakwa has raised. So it is done.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Great minds think alike.
HON. OMAR: I rise on a point of privilege. As MP for Mwenezi
East, we have a problem with all the four ambulances at Neshuro Hospital which are out of order. We repaired them a couple of months back but unfortunately there is a mad man that came with a knobkerrie and smashed all the four windscreens. Neshuro is the only hospital that sees to all the road accidents along the Beit Bridge Road and without ambulances we have a problem.
THE HON. SPEAKER: When did this happen?
HON. OMAR: It happened two weeks ago.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I asked that question deliberately because that should have been a question for question time yesterday and it does not qualify as a point of privilege.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the Order of the Day No. 1be stood over until the Minister has presented a Ministerial Statement.
HON. KWARAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The two Hon Members there, I will not allow sarcastic comments. You do not have to say the points of privilege are over before the Hon. Chief Whip speaks. That is impermissible. I seek your apology.
HON. MURAI: My apology Mr. Speaker.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
ZERO PERCENTAGE PASSRATE IN SCHOOLS
THE MINISTER OF SPORT, ARTS AND RECREATION
(HON. COVENTRY) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir, I have two statements – the first statement if you allow me is on behalf of the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I am representing him today. So, if you allow me, I will start with his statement which is in reply to the Hon. Member who asked a question in terms of different schools. I will read his statement. The first statement is on zero percent schools.
- There are a number of schools which are registering zero percent pass rates in all provinces. There are many reasons to that and among them is the shortage of teachers. The Ministry has about 15000 teacher vacancies and we are grateful that Treasury is supporting the Ministry to accrue more teachers to reduce the gaps. In 2020, the Ministry has been authorised to recruit 5000 teachers which is a step in the right direction to reduce the zero percent pass rate registered in some of our schools.
- The teaching and learning materials for the competency based curriculum are in short supply with books selling at prices like a $1000 each. Our current budget is grossly inadequate to meet the demand for teaching and learning materials for most of our schools especially rural day schools and satellite schools.
- Teaching and learning space in some schools is still grossly inadequate, for example some schools.
Teaching and learning space in schools is still grossly inadequate. For example some schools are still using tobacco barns and grass thatched classrooms, animal handling facilities and some schools operating without specialist rooms like design and technology laboratories and workshops. More resources will also be required for the construction of teachers’ accommodation and continuous training of teachers in the competence based curriculum. The Ministry will also increase the targeted supervision of these schools.
Withholding of public examination results by schools and examination centres.
No institution should withhold results for candidates for whatever reason. Arrangements should be made with the concerned parents or guardians to settle fees arrears and recovery of lost teaching materials like books. Withholding of results by schools is an illegal practice since the contract is between the candidate and ZIMSEC, hence learners should access results timeously.
Uniforms purchase only at school
A circular was issued to outlaw the purchase of uniforms only at school level. Parents can buy uniforms anywhere to the best of their advantage and can even make uniforms themselves. Schools are not allowed to coerce parents to buy uniforms at their schools.
Exorbitant fees
Fees charged by schools are exorbitant and beyond the reach of most parents. As Ministry, we are collecting information on schools and levies being charged by schools. The fees are increased through a decision by parents at properly constituted meetings and schools should adhere to the decisions and recommendations of the School Development Committees. There is need for 20% parents consent at those meetings. Our fees currently should comply with Statutory Instrument 121 of 2019 or pricing is done by local currency and this does not give room for rating the approved fees according to the prevailing bank rates since all fees are in local currency.
Application for fees increase should be below 20% increases and any other increases should be approved by the head of Ministry as directed in Secretary’s Circular Minute Number 6 of 2018. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister Coventry, perhaps before you read your second statement there may be some need for clarification by the Hon. Members. Thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
to the Acting Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I know Mr. Speaker that she may not be able to address the issues. She indicated to me that she was not fully briefed, but I think it is important that she takes some of these issues as they are very urgent, given the fact that we are not going to come to the House. By the time we come to the House the schools would have been opened.
Firstly, I think it is important to actually give us a full appreciation of why particularly certain regions have had 0%. I think that is what we were asking. So the answers were too general. We know that there are problems with schools, but why is it that certain regions did better than others? For example the region that we raised, the Matabeleland region had a high level of 0% and we need to understand what exactly is peculiar about that region.
The second one is that those things to do with the withholding of results are urgent because children cannot go to school in Form 1. They are unable to register, including those that also want to get into ECD.
We know that it is not legal, but it continues to happen. I think our clarification is what is the Ministry of Education doing to ensure that schools do not do this? The parents know it is illegal but the schools are still using the same things that are not legal in spite of the policy things that you have sent to the schools. So I think what is urgent for us is to know what the Ministry is doing so that the parents and the children do not necessarily suffer.
The third point I think that we needed clarification on is a gender disaggregation of the failure rate, so that we can understand whether these are girls or these are boys and what does that mean in terms of supporting it. So yes, it is a good statement but I think really we need proper responses that indicate that there is more research that is being done by the Ministry. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. KWARAMBA: Further to what Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga has said, there is the issue of uniforms which are being sold at schools. School heads continue to sell uniforms. We would like to know what the Ministry is doing so that those uniforms are not sold at schools. We know the uniforms are very expensive and parents can sew them on their own, but we would like clarification on that. Thank you very much.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir, I also would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the statement that she has presented in which an attempt is made to explain the circumstances leading to the poor pass rate.
I shall not repeat what the two Hon. Members who have spoken before me have said. However, it is important, Mr. Speaker Sir, to understand why we have 15 000 unfilled teaching posts whereas we have got a good many trained teachers who are unemployed and who are roaming the streets. What is preventing the Ministry from enlisting the services of those teachers who are qualified but remain jobless. On the deficit of 10 000 because the Minister has indicated that authorisation has been granted to employ an additional 5 000 teachers out of the 15
000 vacant positions. So the gap is still glaringly too high.
Hon. Speaker, the second issue relates to the use of animal handling facilities by students as classrooms. I think there is need for the Ministry to give a position and let the nation know how the Ministry proposes to address that position because 39 years after independence, I do not think that it is acceptable.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the statement is devoid of an explanation in regard to the working conditions of teachers as a contributory factor to the poor performance, because it does not look like teachers are being paid for working, but they are being paid for going to work because that money, the salaries that is, is only enough to enable teachers to go to work. So they go to work and they do not work. I think the Ministry must also address that whole question of teacher remuneration and conditions of service. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you to the Acting Minister for Primary and Secondary
Education, Hon. Coventry.
I also seek clarification, Mr. Speaker Sir, on issues that perhaps the report or the statement did not really bring to the fore or highlight. In particular, what is the Ministry going to do about those students or pupils who fail these exams? Seventy percent of them have failed. Are there any plans to re-sit, are there any plans for them to rewrite the examinations. What are they going to end up as if they cannot go through Grade 7? It is seven years wasted. The nation has wasted resources for seven years and these pupils are coming out empty handed. What is going to happen to them and what guarantees do you have that it is not going to recur?
Secondly is the issue of the implications of having teachers who do not understand local languages at ECD and lower primary levels. To what extent can you attribute the lower failure rate to the problem of languages which has been raised several times, particularly in the Matabeleland region that we have students or people that are being taught by people who do not understand the languages. Also, we do not understand as to who is taking responsibility in this Ministry for this poor failure rate or it is not just an incident that is going to happen and people forget and life goes on. We cannot have life goes on for seven years where monies and lives are wasted and people come empty handed and life goes on without a head rolling. We need to know whose responsibility it is.
Also we need to know the issue of infrastructure and facilities. I am talking about infrastructure that is affecting the curriculum. Elearning facilities - are they available in those schools that we have people failing dismally? The education infrastructure is it available or people are just asked to explain the teaching concept and curriculum in theory only? We want to know – it should be disaggregated to see whether there is any relationship between the poor infrastructure and the poor pass rate. Some of the issues I think my colleagues have raised those issues. Thank you very much for the opportunity.
Hon. Mutseyami having stood up on a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You have a point of order when there is no debate why? What is your point or order Hon. Mutseyami.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Bearing in
mind the gravity of the contributions which are coming from the Hon. Members and as well the importance of the Ministry and the challenges that we are having as a country, how valid is it for the Hon. Minister to respond to this cocktail of questions bearing in mind that she is not the Minister directly responsible? This is coming as a result of simultaneous questions. How does she come up with a copped up response?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I take note of your observation Hon.
Mutseyami. At the same time I would not want to prejudge the response from the Hon. Minister. Let her speak for herself and we will deal with the matter accordingly.
HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think it will be fine for the Hon. Minister since she is in acting capacity on behalf of the Hon. Minister of Primary and Secondary Education – she will take these issues up with him and they can provide answers in the next session. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- My points of clarity Mr.
Speaker Sir...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Member, you are not
in the Chair – ask youyr point of clarification.
HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just wanted
clarity on the percentage of zero pass - urban versus rural schools. It is important for us to zero in on the statistics so that we know where to direct our resources to. If we have bigger percentages of zero in the urban, we know our resources are to be channeled in the urban viceversa if the great percentage is in the rural, we need to direct our resources into the rural schools. Secondly, on the 15 000 vacancies that are available, it would be also important for us to know how the percentages are – what percentage of the 15 000 is urban and what percentage of the 15 000 is rural? Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MOYO: I seek clarification on two issues from the Acting Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. The first one concerns the shocking zero percent. I personally got bamboozled to hear that several schools scored zero. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that woe do not have a recurrence of that? We need to form a Commission of Inquiry because the number of schools that I have heard which scored zero is very high. Are you not going to set a Commission of Inquiry to find out what exactly has happened which culminated in the zero percent.
The other issue concerns recruitment of teachers. What are doing to ensure that people are not coming from Harare to go to Binga or to go Gokwe? I will give an example – two months ago there were 100 prospective teachers who applied, the list was sent by the Ministry of Education in Gokwe North. Of the 100 who were recruited, none came from Gokwe but they all came from Harare. What are we going to do to ensure that this system is going to come to an end? Thank you.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point is also
on the issue of the zero percent pass rate and most of these schools are from Matabeleland South and North provinces. My observation is that these schools are from the resettlement areas where the land reform programme happened during the 2000 era. My point of clarification is we have homesteads that were in those areas as schools and we find that in those homesteads, four classes share the same room where a teacher has to share between four classes happening simultaneously.
I want clarification from the Minister that it is now almost 20 years and we still have situations like that in our country. How serious are we with education and what are the plans set out to make sure that adequate infrastructure and adequate teachers are available in these resettlement areas, noting that we cannot reverse their settlements because families reside in those places. Thank you.
HON. P. MOYO: The results are out and in rural areas it is very difficult for parents to get places and quickly get computers to apply on line. What is the Ministry doing especially to the parents and children who are traumatized by not getting places until this date? They are still roaming about looking for places without any success. I thank you.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My point
of clarification is regarding the aspect of supervision of what is happening on the ground especially in the schools. What mechanism is the Ministry employing to make sure these schools or many of our schools in the country are properly supervised? This is taking into consideration the fact that the education inspectors and the district educations inspectors are incapacitated, they do not have vehicles; they are always just sitting at their offices and not effectively supervising some of these teachers and the schools, especially in the rural areas.
What is the Ministry doing regarding that aspect? Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
HON. KAPUYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my point is on the
teacher to pupil ratio. Yes, my colleagues could worry about the pass rate, but if you look in the urban areas and some of the rural areas - in one classroom you have 68 pupils against one teacher. The concentration there when you look at it is zero so the teacher will be forced to concentrate on the bright side of the kids and leave those who want more assistance or more attention. Hence the failure from ECD to grade 7, there is need to increase the schools both in rural and urban areas. That is my plea to the Ministry so that the child to teacher ratio is reduced may be to 1:30; it is much appreciated than to have 1:100. I thank you.
*HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I add my
contribution to the debate on Matabeleland. I come from Matabeleland North. A lot of students are failing, I attended at Mazimavili School, I visited the school last year and there are only 3 trained teachers. Many of the teachers are temporary teachers who just stop coming to work without giving any notice. This is the problem we have in
Matabeleland. We implore Government to introduce inspectors who would come and supervise the education system. I leant at that same school but during my time, inspectors used to come and supervise how children are being taught. Now we no longer have these inspectors. I once placed my grandchild at that school but later removed her after the child said he was placed in a grade 7 class when the child was only in grade 3. They wrote a test and he came first out of the grade 7 class.
I am Ndebele by birth, I came to Mashonaland and taught grade 2 and my class passed by far compared to other classes. I was not very fluent in Shona by that time. I am surprised when Members of
Parliament complain that Shona teachers must not be placed in Matabeleland and vice versa. Teacher does not matter where they come from – [HON. DR. LABODE: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker Sir may you protect me from this woman.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zemura seek clarification and also you cannot say to Hon. Member ‘this woman’, please withdraw that statement.
HON. ZEMURA: I withdraw Hon. Speaker Sir. It is better that we send trained teacher to schools in Matabeleland because there are no trained teachers. We must select them by language.
HON. DR. LABODE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. DR. LABODE: Mr. Speaker Sir, a teacher who was born and bred in Mashonaland and does not know just one word in Ndebele, you go and put that person in Nkayi to teach a grade 1 pupil who has never heard one word in Shona, how do they communicate? What type of teaching are you talking about? You want to destroy Matabeleland, that is what you want. You are making sure they do not go to school.
HON. MKANDLA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. According to ZIMSEC findings there is 5% drop in pass rate from 52% for 2018 candidates to 46% for 2019. If the factors affecting this trend of drop in pass rates, if they are not attended to, it will be a mockery for
Zimbabwean education. It is not just the zero percent pass in rural areas. It is scattered everywhere, in most areas – so if we say we are number
3...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, seek clarification.
HON. P. ZHOU: What is the Ministry doing, is it carrying out a research, we want to make sure that our standards of education do not go down because the trend is 52% last year and now it is 45%. So in 2020 what will it be, I seek clarification?
HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, two quick
ones, the first one is when the Minister started, I was not too sure
whether or not she managed to explain the reason why she is presenting the statement on behalf of Hon. Minister Cain Mathema. Is he already on leave for Christmas …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, he is on leave.
HON. SARUWAKA: Alright, I had not picked that one. The second is, I am aware from her presentation that we have very few schools in the country compared with the demand. The clarification that I want to get from the Hon. Minister is, why is the Ministry making it so difficult for communities to establish schools? I have a situation where, from my community, since 2011 I have been trying to establish a primary school because school children are walking more than 8kms to the nearest primary school.
It has been very difficult to get approval from the Ministry for the community that is prepared to build a school for our children. Due to the long distances involved, the pass rate for my particular community is very low because school children walk long distances when they are very young. The question is, why is it so difficult for the Ministry to allow communities to build schools so that school children can walk short distances to school? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. I had said that Hon.
Saruwaka is the last one. Hon. Minister, do you think that you can have a bit of the cherry or you are going to suggest something?
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
What I will promise this House and yourself Sir, is that I have taken note of all these very important questions and I will take it upon myself to work with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to make sure that they come back with a fuller statement that addresses all the concerns, mainly the concerns around infrastructure, the working conditions of teachers, the failing of students. What the Ministry is doing to prevent that from going down, the local languages, the redirecting of finance to schools that are really in need of it as well as the recruitment of teachers coming from similar areas and similar backgrounds and knowledge especially when it comes to our younger students as well as the supervision of the District Inspectors and where they are with that and also the not enough qualified teachers in our schools. Along with the question that the Hon. Member just asked with communities that are willing to come to the party and help Government – there should be an easier fast way to fast track.
Mr. Speaker Sir, if you allow me to take all of these questions back, I will put this in their process today and make sure that the answers start coming to you, especially as the Hon. Member mentioned before the beginning of the year that some of these questions get tackled.
I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. I need the guidance of the House as some of the questions require immediate responses, especially on the issue of what happens to those who failed, will they be allowed to repeat and so on. Also, there is the issue of stopping schools from selling expensive uniforms and so on, that a directive be given by the
Ministry for the practice to stop.
All this needs preparatory work before the schools open. My question is - would Hon. Members be happy that the Ministerial Statement is distributed in your pigeonholes? I do not know how best you want to get that information before the schools open, I seek your guidance.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
for coming in and intervening in that way. The problem like we indicated is when schools are not directed to do certain things. There are merely policy issues but they have not been directed. So it would be important that as soon as possible, the Ministry issues a memorandum to all schools indicating the following: - Firstly, you cannot withhold examination results. Secondly, indicating that the issue of school fees is the right of a parent to find the school fees whicht is cheaper in whatever manner that they do.
I think that would be crucial to send a memo but it would also be important because the Ministers are not here to issue a public statement - whether the statement is on radio or television, to allow the communities to use those particular statements when they are going back to schools. It would be important for us to actually get the memo as Members of Parliament because it then helps us in our constituencies when we are having problems. We then can use that as an official document that is coming from the Ministry to those schools that are violating those particular issues.
The Ministerial Statement would be good to get but I think that those two specific issues before schools open would be important for the Ministry to do. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You want to make further guidance to the Chair?
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes Mr. Speaker Sir. May I propose to the Chair that this is a very important issue – Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you very much for putting a lot of thought to this. It is quite serious and I know very well that the Portfolio Committee on Primary and Secondary Education chaired by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga has been very thorough in what they want to achieve.
May I suggest that the Portfolio Committee meets with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education even on Monday because the Permanent Secretary and the technocrats are the ones who are key. There is nothing wrong in also inviting the former Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Prof. Mavima because if you look at it, this more or less happened under his tenure. While Hon. Mathema is the Minister, it would be quite impossible for us to think that he can comprehend everything in this short time that he has been there.
The Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education is educationist himself, he was involved in education. The Permanent Secretary is an educationist and inviting Hon. Prof. Mavima to come and also explain, I think would actually give us many answers and so forth. So the Portfolio Committee is capable in its role of oversight, of making sure that this is attended to. I think that they would have the time to go through quite a lot and Monday – I am sure they are quite committed or any other time before the schools open because people need to know now what is going to happen and what measures are going to be taken.
That would be my proposal Hon. Speaker and I think that next time the President - I know you talk to him, in his wisdom maybe if he could appoint Ministers who have an education background – primary, higher and tertiary, it helps to get things going. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – To be honest with you because it makes it difficult for other Ministers and so forth – education is key. You are a teacher and an educationist – you know that.
The former President Robert Mugabe, due to his credit - give it to him was very thorough about education and made sure that people with an education background ran education. That is where we are and tribute must go to him in terms of that. He was a stickler for allowing the educationist to run their portfolio. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am not sure about Monday, I would have preferred tomorrow afternoon. What do you say Chair?
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I was
not going to say this but we had to push very seriously to even get the
Acting Minister to come and issue this statement because both Minister and the deputy are not available – they have both gone on leave. –
[HON. T. MLISWA: The Permanent Secretary!] - Yes, the Permanent Secretary is the one who then prepared this particular statement. This is why we are saying Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of trying to call them in, I am not sure that we will get a lot from them at this time, which is why we were asking that in the short term, for those things that need to be urgently dealt with they be dealt with. For the other broader issues, we had already agreed with the Minister that the first week of January we would sit with the Portfolio Committee to deal with the broader issues that are in the statement but I know that they are not available and it has been difficult to force them to actually bring even this one because we felt it was important to at least respond to the urgency of people.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do you have a suggestion Hon.
Minister?
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): There is an officer from the
Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education standing outside waiting.
I am not sure who he is but I am sure they can come through and ask for the Permanent Secretary to be told to come to Parliament to answer any further questions because this is a serious matter. I do not know if it is her outside or another officer. I believe they will be available to meet with the Committee as soon as possible. In terms of the technocrats, I am not sure if the Minister and the Deputy are around but I believe the Permanent Secretary is around and they will be willing to meet.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much for your suggestion Hon. Minister. Let me have a tete a tete with the Permanent Secretary.
Thank you for your patience Hon. Members. What is going to happen is that the Permanent Secretary was at another meeting. She is now here. They are going to sit down immediately with the Hon. Minister to discuss those issues and a press statement that will not be dissected by the editorial editors that should come out in full, giving direction to the schools and what is key here, is the Inspectors are being urged according to your points of clarification, to go to the school and ensure that the policies that have come from the Ministry are being implemented. Where they are not being implemented, seizure must take place. Are we agreed on that? – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.] – Thank you.
So hon. Minister, you will act like- wise as soon as you finish the other statement.
HON. T. MLISWA: Sir, we want to thank you for the attention you have given to this issue.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
SPORTING EQUIPMENT ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN
SURREPTITIOUSLY REMOVED FROM THREE STADIA IN
BULAWAYO
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): Mr. Speaker Sir, on Tuesday
10th December 2019, Hon. Anele Ndebele raised a point of order requesting a Ministerial Statement on sporting equipment that is alleged to have been surreptitiously removed from three stadia in Bulawayo after the African Union Sports Council Region 5 Under 20 Youth Games.
After the successful hosting of the 2014 African Union Sports Council Region Under 20 Youth Games in Bulawayo, an asset disposal plan was put in place and approved by the Region 5 Secretariat, Government of Zimbabwe and the local Organising Committee. In terms of that plan, all sports equipment bought for use during the games was to be managed by the Sports and Recreation Commission and respective National Sports Associations whom the equipment was bought for. Office furniture was to be used by the then Ministry of Sport, Arts and Culture. The sporting equipment is currently stored at various locations in Bulawayo and I shall indicate these.
White City Stadium
All athletics equipment is currently stored at the stadium which was refurbished during the games. The equipment belongs to the Sports and Recreation Commission whilst Bulawayo Athletics Board and City of Bulawayo manage its use.
The equipment stored at the stadium included hurdles, starting blocks, electronic timing devices, laptops, landing mats and tape measures. In addition, equipment for other track and field events like discus, shot put and high jump is also stored at the stadium.
Luveve Public Works Storage Depot
Due to limited storage space at White City Stadium, some athletics equipment is stored at the Luveve Public Works Storage Depot. The equipment includes landing mats, javelins, pole vaults, boxing ring, boxing floor mats, boxing ropes and floor boards.
Bulawayo Club for the Disabled (Khanyisile) for Basketball
Equipment currently stored there includes basketball floors, basketball hops (rings) and an electronic score board.
Evelyn High School
Basketball hoops (rings) are currently mounted there.
Government Complex Ministry of Sport, Arts and Recreation store rooms
Equipment stored at the Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation offices in Bulawayo included small boxing ropes, boxing gloves, weighing scales and bells. The equipment is easily accessible whenever it is needed for use.
Office Furniture
As already been indicated, office furniture procured during the games was allocated to the then Ministry of Sport, Arts and Culture as per the asset disposal plan. This is the furniture now being used in the offices of the Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation throughout the country’s ten provinces.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker Sir, besides office furniture, all the sporting equipment bought during 2014 African Union Sports Council Region 5 Games is stored in Bulawayo for use by any stakeholders upon request who will be undertaking sporting activities which require this equipment. It is also used during national and international events by sporting associations who will return the equipment for storage and use by Bulawayo based sportspersons.
It is therefore not correct that the sporting equipment was surreptitiously removed from Bulawayo. I invite the Hon. Member to visit our offices in Bulawayo where arrangements can be made to visit locations where this sporting equipment is stored.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Minister for your statement. What is important is that the sporting equipment has been there for so many years and Hon. Ndebele is correct in saying that it is not being used. It is supposed to be used. If I am not mistaken, one of the conditions of having the games was that after they are done, the equipment is then distributed to the various clubs or associations and so forth. I do not know if Government has shifted that policy of distributing the equipment after the games to the various sporting associations.
The Ministry administers sport and there are associations which run the sports, athletics, cricket, rugby and so on. So why do they not give rugby equipment to the Rugby Union, because they are an affiliate of the Sports and Recreation Commission? For athletics, why do they not give it to the Athletics Association, wrestling to the Wrestling Association? This is because this is where the expertise of the coaches is. The Ministry does not have expertise in coaches but it is through those associations. Anybody who wants to take part in cricket will go to the Zimbabwe Cricket Union and ask where this equipment is, it is in the various clubs and as a result they have access to it.
For a very long time, this equipment has not been accessed. To actually say that, it is there and it is in the offices is wrong; it is supposed to be with the association. Has the Ministry shifted on a point of clarity from distributing it to the association, accounting for it and is there any agreement? Right now, there is also the fact that they have given to certain associations to use it, is there a contract or an agreement and how do they see that it is there? The other issue the Minister spoke about is that it is also stored with Public Works when people are dying for that equipment. What have we done about taking it to the rural areas too because this is just urban? Why are we also not taking it to the rural areas? With the vision that the Ministry has on sporting centres of excellence, why do they not decentralise that equipment in those areas because in their budget, they also talk about equipment and it is there.
You take the sport to the people by ensuring that the rural areas too have centres of excellence with equipment. What all people need is equipment and expertise and their personnel is able to superintend - whether they have ward officers or constituency officers to ensure that everybody has access to that equipment. It is not for storage or for the offices, it is for sport out there. What have they done in terms of ensuring that after every game, it is distributed to every centre equitably?
HON. PETER MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My other contribution was taken by Hon. Mliswa but I just want to find out from you, we had also requested the Minister to come and give a Ministerial Statement pertaining to the affairs at ZIFA. This was just after our embarrassment in Egypt and you ruled that she must come and give the Ministerial Statement then. We had also requested for a forensic audit from the Auditor General to determine how ZIFA was using the money to date since the day they came into office. I think the episode is still continuing at ZIFA, embarrassing our country and we cannot continue to keep quiet like this. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. With Region 5 games, there were a lot of issues to do with contractors who had done their work and were never paid. I remember as a Member of the former Committee on Sport, we used to ask that question and there were promises that the contractors who had spruced up the venues for the Region 5 Games would be paid. They were never paid and I wanted to know whether the Minister is in a position to tell us whether there was any movement because it really affects us in future when we have to host other games. We do not have people who are prepared to work with the Ministry to attend to our stadiums and other facilities. We have a big problem in Bulawayo where people had put in their investment to support the country in hosting the games and were never paid. I just wanted to get an update on that particular matter.
HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. To Hon. Mliswa, yes, I fully agree with you that the sporting equipment should go to the national associations. The national associations in my understanding of this, all agreed that some of the equipment they could not house physically, because the equipment was to stay in Bulawayo. National Associations in Bulawayo are too small and they did not have the appropriate warehouses for this equipment.
It was agreed that it would stay at the different depots and stadiums and when they wanted to use it, they just requested it and come and collect it for use. My understanding is that the policy has not changed that the national associations can have use of it but if they cannot have the capability of storing it, we took on the responsibility of storing it in different areas and that is where it is. I think moving forward, what we can do Mr. Speaker Sir is to encourage the national associations to use the equipment that has been sitting there and to maybe remind them that
it is there.
The second question from the Hon. Member on ZIFA – I fully agree and I think there should be a forensic audit not just for last year but probably the last 10 to 15 years. I fully agree that it is something the Ministry fully supports. In terms of terms of a Ministerial Statement on ZIFA, I am more than happy to put something together and come back to you at the beginning of the year next year because I believe there are still a few things that are outstanding from ZIFA that I need in order to come and present to you Mr. Speaker Sir.
The third question on Region 5, some of the contracts have now been paid, there is a small amount of debt that is still due and we are now working with Treasury to get the finance to close up those books.
However, we are working on it Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. TSUNGA: Hon. Speaker you appear anxious.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you overruling me? I said Hon.
Saruwaka is the last one.
HON. TSUNGA: Yes, but it is arising from what the Hon.
Minister has just said. Just a very short one Hon. Speaker, I thank you.
The point of clarification is whether you are allowing or the Ministry is allowing access to equipment or it is transferring ownership? I think there are two things, it has not been clear to me whether it is just allowing access by associations or transfer of ownership and control of the equipment. The other point of clarification is whether it is prudent to keep computers in storage because there is a real risk that the computers may become obsolete and redundant if not used. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Speaker, may I propose to the Minister that if the associations do not have equipment, the schools have space, can they not just get the equipment to the schools, because ultimately that is where the future of sport is, it is through the schools. So if the associations do not have, the schools are affiliated to the associations too, so in a way, they can identify one that can be a centre of excellence, that would be my proposal. The other one is, is it not difficult for the Minister – just so that Parliament can assist Mr. Speaker Sir; it is like back and forth; Public Works manages the stadiums and so on, is it not better for you to just have the total control
of these stadiums so that even when people are asking for equipment they go to the Ministry of Sport and get a letter, but if you go to Public Works you still need to get a letter. I think moving forward, it is better that the Ministry of Sport manages the stadiums and Public Works is out of it for avoidance.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say stadiums?
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, stadiums or sporting facilities in fact.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Stadia. Unfortunately…
HON. T. MLISWA: Sir, the whole purpose of language is to understand what I am saying not to correctly pronounce it. I am glad you understood what I was saying. The last one is; may the Minister extent the forensic audit not just to football, but to rugby and every sporting association so that at least she has an understanding because they get monies from international associations. Why does she not just extend the forensic audit to all associations so that it is dealt with? Cricket had a forensic audit done, so why do they not extend to other associations because it seems to be selective; it seemed it was just cricket and not soccer or rugby. All associations which receive money and subscriptions must account and I think it must be extended to all associations so that she is in a better picture on the state of affairs of the accounts of these entities. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
take on all of those very good ideas that have been put forward for clarification. On the issue about ownership and equipment, it was agreed between the different parties, the organising committee, the national associations which were part of the organising committee, the region five and Government who was going to take ownership and who would have access to it. I can go back and clarify on that again but I believe some of the equipment was given ownership to the national associations. They did not have the capacity to house it so it was agreed to house it at certain stadia and they would move forward with that.
In terms of the national associations not being in a position to use the equipment and the idea from the honourable in terms of locating or giving it to schools, those conversations are already happening with Primary and Secondary Education and ourselves as Ministry on how to better use each other as clogs in this big wheel. Mr. Speaker Sir, on the forensic audit, I take note of that. That is something that will be coming with the National Sports Strategy where all national associations will have to provide tenure and plans. Part of those plans will be audited accounts. That is coming Mr. Speaker Sir. I believe that answers all the questions that were raised. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister will read a Statement from the Hon. Leader of Government Business who is answering questions in the Senate.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
TREATMENT REGIME FOR PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND
RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE) (HON. DR. O. MOYO): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am reading this on behalf of the Leader of the House who was presenting this on behalf of the Minister of Health and Child Care. This is a Ministerial Statement on the treatment regime for people living – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – with HIV in Zimbabwe. The Ministry of Health and Child Care has successfully rolled out the ART programme with over 1.1 million people receiving the life-long treatment.
The Ministry regularly updates its national treatment guidelines informed by evidence and safety of the medicines from scientific research on most effective treatment for people living with HIV. We normally adapt treatment recommendations from the World Health Organisation as advised by the multi-disciplinary team of experts from our own Zimbabwe National Medicines and Therapeutic Policies Advisory Committee. We select the best available ARV regimes for people living with HIV in Zimbabwe based on their safety, availability in the global market and cost. We have abnormal distribution of fat among people living with HIV as one of the side effects of some ARVs that were used during the earlier years when the ART programme was introduced in Zimbabwe. These medicines that include stophavine and donus were phased out of our national programme some years back and therefore we stopped buying these drugs. However, patients who were experiencing severe cases of abnormal body fat distribution were advised to consult a specialist physician for medical advice. With the discovery of more effective and safer ARVs, the Ministry of Health and Child Care has recently introduced a new ARV drug known as dolutegravir, in short DTG which is more tolerant for people mostly living with HIV because it has less side effects. DTG is effective and causes a rapid treatment response with evidence of viral suppression.
The Ministry will continue to mobilise resources to ensure that the best
ARV medicines are available to all that are in need of them. The Ministry advises lifestyle changes including low fat diets, regular exercise and cessation of smoking. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. The issue of HIV is very sensitive and I don’t think we want the nation to think that we take it lightly. It requires the Ministry of Health and Child Care to be able to respond to such issues or they will think that we just want to get on with the work. The ARV situation right now has not been good and the Minister must respond. I do not think it is that urgent so it can wait for him to get back and respond accurately to the issues, because it will not be taken well by the people for us to have someone who is not in charge of health to respond to issues of health. He is an experienced person who has been involved in the Health Sector from
Chitungwiza hospital so may I propose that we defer this until the Minister of Health is available.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think this is a very important observation. Can you officially move for the adjournment of the debate on this statement until the Minister of Health and Child Care is available to answer questions from the Hon. Members.
HON. T. MLISWA: I move that the debate be adjourned until the
Minister is available to respond.
HON. KWARAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister Coventry, if you could so advise the Minister so that when we resume sitting in January he should be prepared to take over from where you left.
SECOND READING
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6, 2019].
First Order read: Second Reading: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6, 2019].
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr Speaker Sir. I rise to add my voice to this very important debate on the Freedom of
Information Bill. To begin with, it is important to state that the Freedom of Information Bill is one of three envisaged laws that will cancel and replace AIPPA which was considered by many to be notoriously draconian. The Bill seeks to give effect to the constitutional provision that guarantees the right to information.
It is also important to state that AIPPA came into effect in 2003 and was some kind of three header law that provided for access to information, protection of private information and also provided for the regulation of media in Zimbabwe. So the Freedom of Information Bill will contribute to the unbundling of AIPPA so that these different aspects are stand-alone different pieces of legislation. We all know that at present AIPPA limits access to information and how such information can be used by individuals, entities and organisations.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the major issues contained in the Bill that I am going to reference include the following; that the Bill sets out procedures for accessing information from public institutions. The Bill also outlines procedures, Mr. Speaker Sir, for appeals in case information is denied. The Bill also sets time limits or time horizons within which processes in attempts to accessing information can be completed and also outlines voluntary mechanisms by which public institutions can share information.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill also assigns additional powers to the Zimbabwe Media Commission, of oversight to ensure that citizens have…
HON. T. MLISWA: Wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year, Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you and welcome to the hot seat. The Bill assigns additional powers to the Zimbabwe Media Commission (ZMC) of oversight to ensure that citizens have fair and wide access to information.
I wish to raise the following issues, that are probably areas of concern in regard to the Bill. First, an issue of concern arising from the Bill is the time horizon for which one can be able to get feedback for request for information. Twenty-one days Mr. Speaker Sir, is provided in the Bill and the Bill provides a further 14 days if the information cannot be availed within 21 days for a total of 35 days before one can appeal.
So this period is obviously too long because, for example if one went to ZIMSEC to get information about maybe missing examination results which they want to use to enroll at some university, they might have to wait for 35 days before they can get that information and meanwhile perhaps the closing date for enrollment would have long passed. So that time lead is too long, it has to be looked at and reduced maybe to something like one to seven days so that information is not withheld by public entities for too long.
Mr. Speaker Sir, another concern noted in the Bill is its insistence on request for information in writing and in a prescribed format. This is discriminatory because obviously we have a good many of our citizens who are unable to write and who may not be able to follow the prescribed format. They may then have to end up requiring the services of a consultant or a lawyer in order that their request can be in admissible form. So my submission, Mr. Speaker Sir, is that request for information should be admissible in any form – verbal, written, text, email so that our people are able to make their requests and the information is granted.
Another area of concern that the Bill talks about is that of language. The Bill insists on payment for translation if the information that one requires is not maintained in the language that they use that is readily available in the offices. So I think the language must not be a barrier for accessing information from public entities. Our Constitution provides for 16 official languages and people may not be penalised for requesting information in a language of their choice. I think the Bill must address that and ensure that – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible
interjection.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA):
Honourable, may you address the Chair please.
HON. TSUNGA: Kana usina chekutaura nyarara titaure. Mr. Speaker Sir, one area of concern that I think the Bill also needs to address is that of the appeal mechanism in cases where an individual has been denied information or they have not been satisfactorily responded to in terms of the information that they require. The ZMC is provided for as the appellant and the impression one gets is that this becomes a sector specific Bill that relates only to the media sector, whereas this Bill is cross cutting and any citizen may require to appeal because they have not been attended to in a manner that satisfies them.
So for example, if somebody wanted some information about their grandfather’s, grandmother’s or whosoever’s death certificate and that information is not forthcoming and 35 days lapse before they can get that information, they must appeal. They must go to the Zimbabwe Media Commission because it is given as the appellant body. So there might be need to fine- tune that dimension because in my view, this is a human rights issue and the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission may substitute the ZMC as appellant body so that there is not this bias towards media personnel only.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also believe that the clause, although we are not yet in the clause by clause state, that information held by public entities may not be issued to somebody who has requested it. It needs to be removed outright because an information officer in a public entity may arbitrarily deny giving information as requested by citizens. It might not augur well because there is no assurance that when you require some information you will get it if an information officer can arbitrarily deny you information that you want. The Bill confines itself to information from public entities, Government institutions, Government departments and so on. There is no consideration for information from private entities that hold information of public interest.
That area also needs to be considered so that we have recourse in cases where citizens require some information held by private entities which information is of public interest. So that dimension has to be looked at. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill in other instances still has the tone of some draconianism where it states that classified and other information may not be availed to be availed and while it is important that certain information may not or perhaps it is of a security nature and may be prejudicial to the State.-[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Mliswa please!
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I got
quite a few things and we will be looking at these later but suffice to say this is a very important Bill Mr. Speaker Sir. I think we need to look at it very closely and ensure that it is reformist in character and that the true spirit of aligning our laws to the Constitution is upheld. Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.,
Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Tsunga and I hope that when we resume debate, because he is raising quite interesting points he will be given an opportunity to complete his debate. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th February, 2020.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I move that Orders of the Day Nos. 1 to 6 be stood over until Order No.
7 has been disposed of. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN
GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND EXPORT-IMPORT BANK
OF INDIA RELATING TO DEKA PUMPING STATION AND RIVER
WATER INTAKE SYSTEM PROJECT
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY
AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move
THAT WHEREAS, Subsection (3) of Section 327 of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that an Agreement which is not an international treaty but which has been concluded or executed by the
President or under the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and imposes fiscal obligations on Zimbabwe does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament;
AND WHEREAS, the loan agreement between Government of
Zimbabwe and Export-Import bank of India relating to Deka Pumping
Station and River Water Intake System Project being implemented by
Zimbabwe Power Company concluded on 3 June, 2019; and
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (3) of the
Constitution, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. HAMAUSWA: Hon. Speaker, when we were debating
similar agreements, there was a concern that was raised to say possibly it was good that respective Committees will have a look into the agreements so that they will also give informed debates such that when as Parliament we are approving the agreements, there is also a basis to say this agreement is good for our country. I do not know if that was done or it is something that the Leader of the House will look into in the future. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir, I think it is well acknowledged and in future we will do so.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point or order?
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of order is that His Excellency the President came into my constituency and I am now going. I would like to wish all Members of Parliament a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, they must drive safely. If there is anyone that I offended, I am sorry, I did not mean to and I hope that you will like me in 2020. So all the best and drive safely. Thank you very much and thank you to the Chair again, may you extend the same to your colleagues on the panel and to the staff.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you very much that is
so kind of you.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN
GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND EXPORT-IMPORT
BANK OF INDIA RELATING TO RENOVATIONS OF
BULAWAYO THERMAL POWER STATION PROJECT
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS, Subsection (3) of Section 327 of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that an Agreement which is not an international treaty but which has been concluded or executed by the
President or under the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and imposes fiscal obligations on Zimbabwe does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament.
AND WHEREAS, the Loan Agreement between Government of
Zimbabwe and Export-Import bank of India relating to renovations of
Bulawayo Thermal Power Station Project being implemented by
Zimbabwe Power Company concluded on 3 June, 2019; and
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327(3) of the
Constitution, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved.
This loan agreement Mr. Speaker Sir, is US$19.5m, it has a low interest rate of 1.75 percent per annum and then the loan is basically long term, with a very nice grace period that really makes an affordable loan and I think it will go a long way in resuscitating power production for use by the City of Bulawayo.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN
GOVERNMENT OF ZIMBABWE AND EXPORT-IMPORT
BANK OF INDIA RELATING TO THE NETONE MOBILE
BROADBAND EXPANSION PROJECT PHASE 111
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name; – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Are you going to approve?] Yes, ikuapprover, if it was equity I would be asking, I must address the Chair but he asked a very basic question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Address you Chair.
THE MINISTEROF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): THAT WHEREAS,
Section (3) of Section 327 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that an agreement which is not an international treaty but which has been concluded or executed by the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities and imposes fiscal obligations on Zimbabwe does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by
Parliament;
AND WHEREAS, the loan agreement between Government of
Zimbabwe and Export-Import bank in China relating to the Net-one
Mobile Broadband Expansion Project Phase 111 being implemented by
Net-One Cellular Private Limited was concluded on 26th June, 2019 in
Beijing, China; and
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327(2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved.
This loan agreement Mr. Speaker Sir, to elaborate is US$71 million; the interest rate is set at 2% per annum with China Exim Bank. There is a grace period of 5 years. The maturity period of the loan is 20 years and in terms of repayment, we will pay twice a year or rather 30 semiannual installments. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT OF THE
INTERNATIONAL SOLAR ALLIANCE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS in terms of Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that international treaty which has been concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament.
AND WHEREAS the Framework Agreement of the International
Solar Alliance was opened for signature at Marrakech on 15th
November, 2016; and it entered into force on 6th December, 2017;
AND WHEREAS the said Framework Agreement of the
International Solar Alliance was signed on 17th July, 2018 on behalf of the Republic of Zimbabwe;
AND WHEREAS Article VII (1) of the Agreement provides for signature, ratification, acceptance, approval and accession:
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (2)(a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved for ratification.
HON. HAMAUSWA: - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] - Thank you Chair for the protection. My issue is that we did not hear the amounts involved in this Agreement. I think that it would be important for us to know the amounts that are involved.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, there are no payments from the Zimbabwean Government that are required. It is just being a full member of the International Solar Alliance so that we have access to the many benefits that are accorded to the various members of that alliance. There are no subscriptions but if members feel like donating – they can donate, but there are no payments for members.
Actually the Agreement was signed in July this year – so it is just a matter of ratification and no payments are required from the Government of Zimbabwe.
HON. HAMAUSWA: What about the key benefits to Zimbabwe?
HON. MUDYIWA: The key benefits – let met… I thought that in the interest of time but let me go through it. – [HON. HAMAUSWA:
Just briefly!] – Let me start with the objectives of the International Solar
Alliance (ISA). Let me start by saying that the International Solar
Alliance is a multi-partnership organisation which was launched on 30th
November, 2015 at the opening of COP 21 in Paris by the Prime Minister of India and the President of France. The Alliance was found on the United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/36/193 of 1981 which underlined the need for cooperation among developing countries and mobilisation of financial resources for new and renewable sources of energy. It is also supported by the Sustainable Development
Goal Number 7 among others.
The ISA’s agenda is to provide a platform for cooperation among solar resource rich counties where global community, including bilateral and multilateral originations, corporate, industry and stakeholders can make a positive contribution to the common goals of increasing utilisation of solar energy in meeting energy needs of ISA member countries in a safe, convenient, affordable, equitable and sustainable manner. The overarching objective is to create a collaborative platform for increased deployment of solar energy technologies to enhance energy security and sustainable development; improve access to energy and opportunities for better livelihoods in rural and remote areas and to increase the standard of living. These are some of the benefits: -
- Collaboration for joint research; development and demonstration; sharing information and knowledge; capacity building; supporting technology hubs and creating networks;
- Acquisition, diffusion and indigenization and absorption of knowledge, technology and skills by local stakeholders in the member countries;
- Creation of expert groups for development of common standards, test, monitoring and verification protocols, creation of partnerships among country specific technology centers for supporting technology absorption for promoting energy security and energy access;
- Exchange of officials/technology specialists for participation in the training programmes on different aspects of solar energy in the member countries;
- Encourage companies in the member countries to set up joint ventures ...
I can go on and on but these are some of the advantages and by being a full member, we can benefit a lot from that. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
SUSPENSION OF COMMITTEE BUSINESS
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): May
Hon. Members please note that all parliamentary Committee business is hereby suspended to 11th February, 2020 except for Committee meetings and Public Hearings that had already been approved.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May I take this opportunity Hon. Members to thank you so much for the way you have deliberated business for 2019. May I also take this opportunity to wish you a very happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
I just want to appeal to you Hon. Members that during this festive period, please can we try to observe and drive according to the road recommended speed limits. You know our roads have got roaring lions that are waiting to devour anybody who actually over-speed especially this holiday period. Please can you stand guided. Thank you very much for your cooperation. Have a blessed holiday.
The House accordingly adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes past
Four o’clock p.m. until, Tuesday, 11th February, 2020.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 18th December, 2019.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I have some Hon.
Members that want to raise notices of privilege and I want to repeat, notice of privilege must relate to Members’ rights not just general statement. If you know you are asking general statement or making general statement, you may not as well ask. I do not want to embarrass anybody.
HON. DR. NYASHANYU: I rise on a point of privilege, firstly to commend the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for coming up with a well balanced budget proposal against a background of very limited resources.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, order. Sit down! You should have said that during the debate on the budget. Thank you.
HON. NYATHI: I rise on a point of privilege to thank the people of Zimbabwe for yet having trust in the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. E.D. Mnangagwa. Mr. Speaker Sir, Shurugwi South Constituency had the privilege to...
THE HON. SPEAKER: I say again notice of privilege must relate to your rights and privileges.
HON. T. MLISWA: Good afternoon to you Mr Speaker Sir. My point of privilege is that some time a week ago, I raised the issue on the machetes where I said that a lot of people ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: You raised an issue under privilege, so what was the ruling?
HON. T. MLISWA: The ruling is, you did not – the leader of Government business was not around to respond to that. Now that he is here...
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no, no, it must be the Chair who must rule.
HON. T. MLISWA: The reason why I am raising it is, there is no response in terms of...
THE HON. SPEAKER: No. no, no, point of privilege is raised with the Chair.
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, I raised it with the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What was the Chair’s ruling?
HON. T. MLISWA: The Chair was supposed to communicate to the Leader of Government Business in terms of the ban of the machetes and the sale of copper because of the vandalism of transformers. So my question to you is - did you communicate that to the Leader of Government business and what is he doing about it because people are still dying yet the President was very clear that the issue had to be dealt with.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you raise that matter during question time.
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, I will. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MAYIHLOME: I rise on a point of privilege. The issue concerns rural constituency Members of Parliament. Compared to their counterparts particularly Harare Constituency MPs, rural constituency
MPs have to travel up to 700kms every weekend to their constituencies. Friday and Sunday are travelling days to and fro Harare. So they only have one day per week to attend to their constituency issues whereas their counterparts, particularly in Harare are able to attend to their constituency issues on a daily basis. It is my humble request that rural MPs be given a special allowance for this difference between the rural and urban constituencies. I so submit Hon Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, yes that affects the rights and privileges of Members of Parliament. Hon. Madzimure has been so mesmerised by your point of privilege, I do not know why. Let that matter be referred to the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders.
Thank you.
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Banks like CBZ are closing CDF accounts on the basis that their accounts are dormant and in the process when new disbursements are made they get into accounts that have been closed thereby delaying the monies that should go to the development of constituencies in good time. I feel that these accounts should be given special treatment because they are not given money time and again but it only comes once in a while.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, while that relates to your
privileges, it is totally administrative. So it could be one or two Members who are affected. Therefore, you need to approach the Clerk of Parliament for assistance.
HON. PHULU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I agree entirely that a point of privilege must relate to the rights of the Member.
THE HON. SPEAKER: And privileges.
HON. PHULU: To the privileges and rights of the Member and Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to note that as a Member of Parliament, over the past few weeks I have been constrained in my privileges and my rights in as far as expressing myself is concerned.
Mr. Speaker, I will quote from Erskine May, the author who observing what the Commons said in 1621. They defined their privilege by affirming the following, that every Member has freedom from all impeachment, imprisonment or molestation other than by censure of the House itself - we concede that, or for concerning any Bill speaking, reasoning or declaring on any other matter or matters touching on
Parliament business, not merely touching on the House itself but Parliament business.
Mr. Speaker Sir, one observation that we make is that from the
Speaker’s Chair…
THE HON. SPEAKER: We make or you make?
HON. PHULU: I am used to court, Mr. Speaker. I apologise for that. My observation is that the rulings emanating from the Chair on many a matter and I have one or two examples, have been totally biased in favour of the other side –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I raise this, Mr. Speaker, not out of malice or merry – making but in order, at the end, to ask the Speaker to reflect on the assertion and on the allegation against the Chair and make a ruling.
For example, Hon. Matewu made perhaps a remark that was held to be inappropriate in as far as making a reference to Your Excellency. Hon. Mavetera also made the same matter but one Member was chased out and the other was not. In fact there was no ruling on the matter –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I respect the opinion of the Hon. Member. You need to give the Chair, perhaps outside his Chair, those instances backed by Hansard reports so that I can study them, not from the Chair but as head of Parliament. So if you can indulge me in that regard, I would be most pleased and then I would be able to give a more detailed response accordingly.
HON. PHULU: Thank you for that direction, Mr. Speaker Sir.
As I finish, Mr. Speaker Sir, we also note that I have been subjected to a Privileges Committee which is wholly constituted by Members of the other side and I do not think that I will be able to get a fair hearing.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to state that I will not.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get the first part of your statement.
HON. PHULU: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have been subjected to a
Privileges Committee which is wholly constituted of ZANU PF Members and I will not be able to clothe it with any credence by appearing before it because it would be a shambles. It is a predetermined decision where I am convicted before I even begin – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Some of the Members have already been saying this in the corridors.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Again, I take note of your observation and I am not sure whether there have been any Members who have been called as witnesses so far. So, if that is not the case you still have a chance to state your case before that Privileges Committee – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I have not finished, order. Cool down. Order!
Hon. Gonese having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Why are you standing up, I am not finished? Sit down. Cool down. Order, order! The terms of the Privileges Committee were tabled here and they were accepted. Those who will appear can raise any objection should they appear before them. Yes, I cannot discuss the modalities now. That is out of question. I recognise you Hon. Gonese. I hope not on the same matter.
HON. GONESE: Well I am talking about my rights arising in relation to my rights as Innocent Gonese, Member of Parliament for Mutare Central. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it on the same matter?
HON. GONESE: It is not the same matter, Mr. Speaker. It is my right to appear before an impartial…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear you. Is it on the same matter?
HON. GONESE: Which same matter? I do not know which same matter, Mr. Speaker Sir. I need to stand guided. Which same matter? I am talking about the rights and I do not know which same matter you are referring to Mr. Speaker Sir. I need some clarity –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese.
HON. GONESE: Yes, I am talking about my rights and I believe,
Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can I guide you?
HON. GONESE: No, before you guide me Mr. Speaker… THE HON. SPEAKER: No, do not argue with the Chair.
HON. GONESE: No, I want to be guided but before you do that, Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Before you guide me, Mr. Speaker, but you have not heard me. What exactly is your point?
THE HON. SPEAKER: If it is on the same matter on the Privileges Committee - do not pretend ignorance. I do not belabour the point. If you have got your rights and you feel they are infringed, when you appear before that Committee –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
HON. GONESE: With all respect, Mr. Speaker, I am not speaking on the Privileges Committee. I said Member of Parliament for Mutare Central. Where does the Privileges Committee come in? I represent the people of Mutare Central and you are aware I am in the Parliament as their representative who is the elected.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are not talking on the same matter?
HON. GONESE: No, it is not the same matter.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Alright carry on.
HON. GONESE: It is not the same matter.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Carry on! –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, I will refer to Parliament conventions and practices. In terms of Parliament conventions, practices and procedures, when a person occupies the office of Chair or Speaker or President in other jurisdictions that person, Mr. Speaker Sir, for the duration of the period in which they are in occupation of that position, is supposed to be impartial.
In other jurisdictions, Mr. Speaker, such a person will actually resign from the party on whose ticket they would have been elected to Parliament. The reason I am making this point is because I feel my rights are being infringed in the manner in which the Chair has been responding to issues in this august House and that manifestation of that bias has been seen today and I can cite examples, we do not have to go to the Hansard. Today, Mr. Speaker Hon. Phulu was standing up and you recognised more than five Members from the other side and some of them did not even have points of privilege. For me that is a manifestation of failure to exercise the role of Speaker impartially. I would also want to point out that you do not vote in this august House.
Even if there was a tie, you do not vote Mr. Speaker – even if there is a tie and supposing there is an inequality of votes, you do not have a casting vote or a deliberative vote. The reason is simple – it is because you are supposed to exercise that neutrality so that someone from Mars would not know that you are a Member of the Politburo of ZANU PF. They just think that you are just the Presiding Officer.
So, the point that I am making is that in this august House, I feel constrained and I feel unable to express myself at the risk of being told to sit down. Mr. Speaker, you have to allow Hon. Members to articulate their points to their logical conclusion. I believe that with due respect to your office and to your person, the manner in which you have been discharging the roles and responsibilities of Speaker in terms of your presiding in this august House, it is not in accordance with the practices, conventions, and the procedures of Parliaments the world over. It is important that there should be some introspection so that this perception does not persist. I think it is not a perception but it goes beyond and it is actually reality. That is my point of privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. First of all, I want to apologise to Hon. Gonese for having presumed that you were still speaking on the same matter raised by Hon. Phulu - I apologise. The second part is that the Hon. Member says there are some perceptions. Perceptions are not facts – they are perceptions. Let me remind you of one thing. I have also myself and my team as Presiding Officer - we have to observe the balance in this House. It is 3 to 1. So, we have to respect that. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Order, order Hon. Molokela. I do not know this sign you know.
On a more serious note, we need to observe that ratio and it has also happened. I want to put you into the picture. When an Hon. Member from my right asks a question and in some instances there is no supplementary question from that Member and even from Members on my right and yet you find they will be four Members standing on my left. If I choose them, the other side also will say ah, I am favouring
Members on my left. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Order, order. I understand the numerical ratio. Speaking as an African, you must know that kana uine vakadzi four, kune vahosi and three others. Barika rinonetsa. So, sometimes...
+HON. M. NKOMO: On a point of privilege Hon. Speaker. We
thank the Government for enacting a traffic law which does not allow drivers to be on the road when they are drunk.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order!. I think I will speak to the Chief Whips and see how we can assist each other to appreciate and perhaps we need to write down some notes that will guide the Members on this area. Thank you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. NDUNA: My question goes to the Minister of Policy
Implementation in the Office of the President and Cabinet Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo as it relates to Government policy on the implementation of strategies and ways of reduction of road carnage during this festive season – aware that we have a lot of lives that are lost annually during such festive season due to road carnage, in particular where the average is five deaths per day and 38 injured due to road carnage. The question goes to Hon. Minister Dr. J. Gumbo as it relates to implementation of policy in relation to eradication, stoppage and reduction of road carnage during this festive season. What is the policy of Government as it relates to enforcement of Government policy on the reduction of road carnage during this festive season? Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE MINISTER OF POLICY IMPLEMENTATION IN THE
OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT AND CABINET (HON. DR. J. M.
GUMBO): Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue is that regarding this festive season, what Government expects of all drivers on the road is that we must take caution so that we do not involve ourselves in accidents. As a result there are police officers who are on the roads and they are also people from Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe who educate people on the roads, telling them to drive and observe road signs and also try to refrain from driving under the influence of liquor. So, difficult as it is as a question, I think it is important and what it really means from the questioner what you would want me to say is just to implore our drivers that as we go into this festive season, we should try as much as possible to make sure that we take caution as we drive along the roads so that we avoid any accidents on the roads, as this causes deaths. I think that is the best that I can do. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker, during this time of the year when a major holiday is approaching. The Government used to have teams who would do maintenance on major roads like the road from Beitbridge to Harare. It is a health hazard and a problem, what is the Government doing to make sure that that road is put in a condition where it is serviceable? The accident that happened yesterday ended up blocking the whole road and it was 7 km of traffic because of the bad road conditions that we have. What is the Government doing to make sure that it corrects that situation?
THE HON. SPEAKER: That question will arise under written
questions so there is no further supplementary.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question
goes to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. I would like to know the Government policy on the issuance of temporary import license of foreign vehicles.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister is not here, so can you direct your question to the Leader of Government Business.
HON. KWARAMBA: In the absence of the Minister of Transport
and Infrastructural Development, I will redirect my question to the Leader of Government Business.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Haashayi zvekutaura uyu.] – I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Indeed what has been happening is that we had a shortage of number plates, because of this, we then allowed the use of temporary plates. We are now moving towards the production of our own number plates here. So, the use of temporary plates was allowed for some time – [HON. MEMBERS:
Import license.] – [HON. KWARAMBA: Inaudible interjections.] - HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I think the Hon. Member is answering herself. We have a policy of having temporary import licence for those that are coming into the country unless if the member can expand what she is referring to. Already, we have a policy where if you are coming from outside the country, you can then process an import licence that will allow you to drive your vehicle in the country for a specific period.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am now
referring to an investor who comes into the country and gets a TIP but maybe needs to fly back to his home country. What is the policy – what are the circumstances that will affect that kind of investor in the ease of doing business? I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Speaker, if you bring your vehicle, you are either given a thirty day temporary import licence for your vehicle to be in the country. If you decide that you do not want to drive back, you want to fly and come back. It is your responsibility to ensure that you look for a place where you keep it safely until you come back. You must abide by the rules of the temporary import license. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my question is directed to the Leader of Government Business Hon. Ziyambi. There are a group of people known as mashurugwis who are carrying around machetes with them, beating up people, invading mines and His Excellency, the President, in Kadoma, during his address to the youth, did mention that it must stop. What measures are you taking as a Government to ensure that this stops forthwith? I see Government is quick at Statutory Instruments when it comes to the financial issues and not to the death of people as well as the vandalism that is happening with the transformers. It is the copper that criminals are taking from the transformers. What are you also doing to stop the ban on people buying copper in the country because we are not at all mining copper? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir, I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The first thing that I want to state is that I think there has been an abuse of the term ‘mashurugwi’ to indicate that everyone who carries a machete comes from Shurugwi which is not correct. I think that it is a phenomenon that is common in mining areas regardless of which area it
is.
Having said that, indeed the President himself pronounced very clearly that we need to deal with the issue of …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, there is a gentleman
behind the pillar there – the Hon. Member. I cannot see you but the Hon. Minister is giving a response and you are busy lecturing behind there. Can you stop it? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I was saying Hon. Speaker that the President pronounced himself very clearly. What we are doing is, the police are looking into that issue seriously. We are also in discussion with all the enforcement agencies, the courts and prosecution to ensure that we also set up courts that will deal with people who are killing other people using machetes with a view of ensuring that even though we deny them bail we ensure that the trials are done faster. We are taking the issue seriously and the police are going to do their work to ensure that this thing does not spread to other areas. I thank you.
On the issue of vandalism of transformers, we are also in the process of trying to use technology so that we also install cameras along the areas where the transformers are. The sad bit is, we are noticing a trend where the people who steal these appear to be trained people. So we are looking into it with a view of ensuring that we secure and also we are looking at other ways of ensuring that we produce transformers that do not have the oil that they are looking for - so several measures are being taken to ensure that we stop the vandalism. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Minister is aware that
Government …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order it is the Hon. Minister.
HON. T. MLISWA: The Hon. Minister Ziyambi Ziyambi is
aware that Government and the security agents have tried in vain to try and put teams to operate to ensure that this stops and nothing has actually transpired which is positive – it continues. Is the Hon. Minister aware that most of the people involved in this are ZANU PF leaders as is the same way in the Land Commission Report?
I am glad that at the just ended conference, the leadership of
ZANU PF, Hon. Muchinguri was very clear that, ‘We have got criminals amongst us’. So how do they expect to arrest the criminals amongst them when they are in the forefront of doing that? – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order! We need to have facts before us and to merely come up with assumptions is not good enough for the Hon. Minister to answer the question. Let us have facts and in that regard if the facts are there, there will be need for the question to be in writing so that investigations can be done by the relevant Minister. – [HON. A. NDEBELE: Inaudible interjection.] - We have not debated.
HON. A. NDEBELE: I want to take notice Hon. Speaker, that in September I raised this issue of vandalism and a week ago I also requested for a joint Ministerial Statement from the Minister of Local
Government and Public Works and the Minister of Energy and Power Development on why they are still issuing copper trading licences to local entities, yet it is a fact that we are none copper producing country.
So I bid patience on the part of my colleagues so that the Ministers are then able to furnish us with that statement because a Ministerial Statement will give us what is in the mind of our Government relating to the question of copper licences. Then Hon. Mliswa, we shall have a field day in this House. Thank you Hon. Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, are you satisfied?
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, I am very satisfied.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much and in that case, there is no supplementary question. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, no there is no supplementary. The original questioner says he is satisfied so no. Is that a new question? – [HON.
MOLEKELA: Yes.] – Yes, new question. What has been discussed? Nothing has been discussed, what are you raising then? – [AN HON. MEMBER: On a previous point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.] – No, you cannot have a point of order – [HON. MOLEKELA: I asked two different questions and I hope you noticed that. He responded to one of the questions but there is still another question.] – So it will be related – [AN HON. MEMBER: They are not related!] – Order, order, how can I address you whilst you are seated? – [Laughter.] - What Hon. Ndebele said and convincingly so, the question of the machetes will arise and
Hon. Mliswa is satisfied. So do not speak for him when he is here.
Thank you – new question!
HON. MURAMBIWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What measures do you have Hon.
Minister …
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no, ask the Hon. Speaker.
HON. MURAMBIWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What measures do we have to ensure fuel adequacy during the impending festive season? Thank you.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, your question is on
occupation in hotels.
HON. MURAMBIWA: No, no…
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your question? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MURAMBIWA: Alright, let me come again Mr. Speaker
Sir. I am saying that my question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What measures do you have in place to ensure fuel adequacy during this impending festive season?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
I would like to thank the Hon. Member for a pertinent question, particularly now that we are towards the Christmas holiday where most Zimbabweans would love to travel in and out of Harare to holiday resorts and all sort of places.
The fact is that we do have enough fuel at our depots but it is bonded – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you listen.
HON. MUDYIWA: We do have enough fuel at our depots in Mabvuku and Masasa but it is bonded. This means that we need to pay before we can withdraw that fuel. We are discussing with RBZ who issue letters of credit to fuel traders so that they access the fuel. I can assure the nation that we do have enough fuel at our depots save for the lines of credit. If the process is expedited then the fuel can be available.
We are doing everything within our means to make sure that we have enough fuel for our motorists during the holiday – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Molokela, did you see how many you were? You were six Hon. Members who wanted to ask supplementary questions.
HON. CHIKWINYA: In the Minister’s response, she speaks of
letters of credit from the RBZ....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Letters of what?
HON. CHIKWINYA: Letters of credit from the RBZ which are supposed to be given to suppliers of fuel for them to purchase fuel at Mabvuku. We were informed that Government liberalised the fuel market. What then they simply did through the Zimbabwe Energy Regulatory Authority was to benchmark the prices and there is a margin of profit. One garage can differ from the other by a few cents but the fuel market is liberalised.
Fuel suppliers were told to go and procure their foreign currency on the market at the interbank exchange rate. Where is the issue of letters of credit coming from because what it takes us to is that now the RBZ is responsible for issuing out foreign currency when Government policy says they are supposed to procure on the interbank market rate. I need the Minister to respond to us on the issues of letters of credit.
HON. MUDYIWA: I think the arrangement of payment between the RBZ and the traders is the responsibility of the Ministry of Finance. Our mandate as a Ministry is to ensure that we have got enough fuel at our depot. The details about the issues of payment can be referred to the
Ministry of Finance – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. TSUNGA: The issue that has been raised by the Hon. Minister is likened to a father who tells his children that there is mealiemeal in the storehouse when they are hungry yet the children are not eating sadza. According to her, diesel and petrol are in the reservoirs but no one is consuming them. The Minister’s responsibility is to ensure that the fuel reaches service stations. We would like to know the plans that the Minister has to make sure that there is fuel at service stations and not tell us about the reservoirs. We want fuel for consumption.
HON. MUDYIWA: Our mandate as Ministry is to ensure that we have got enough fuel in the country and we do have enough fuel like I said before. Go to our depots, there is enough fuel which is bonded but the details of payment is the responsibility of the Ministry of Finance. At the moment, we are working with the Ministry of Finance and the RBZ to ensure that they expedite the processes of payment so that the fuel is paid for and the traders can get the fuel from our depots. I think I have been very clear.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, the Hon. Minister is very clear. The Ministry of Energy has brought in fuel; the Finance Ministry must make available the monies to draw that fuel to the service station. It cannot be clearer than that.
*HON. TOGAREPI: Hon. Speaker, I have a request from Hon. Members that when the Ministers come for Question Time, there are some who are teasing the Ministers and confusing them, at the same time making noise instead of asking him questions. So, I plead with them to respect the Ministers so that their questions are answered – [HON. MLISWA: You want to take away the duties of the Hon. Speaker when he is present.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I do not feel threatened –
[Laughter.] –
HON. SHIRICHENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question
was directed to the Minister of Agriculture but I will direct it to the Leader of the House. What is the Ministry doing to help A2 farmers to acquire 99-year leases? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. The Government has a policy to issue 99-year leases, at the same time, we are undertaking a land audit. So, until that is finalised, the land reform will be a thing of the past very soon, once we finalise the land audit and we roll out the 99-year leases. I thank you.
An Hon. Member having stood up to ask a supplementary question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I use my wisdom, there is no
supplementary, the Minister’s reply is very clear. Let us allow the Audit Commission to complete its work and then the issue of the 99-year leases will be sorted out.
HON. CHITURA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, Hon. Nyoni. What is Government policy on helping Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) to participate in public procurement?
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, COMMUNITY,
SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES DEVELOPMENT (HON.
- NYONI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for a very pertinent question. SMEs, form the majority of economic actors in this country and when there are Government tenders, they tend to be left behind. Fortunately, there is the SMEs Act, which states that 25% of any national procurement should be given to SMEs and what the Ministry has done is approach the Procurement Regulatory Authority of Zimbabwe (PRAZ) to work with us and they are helping us as a Ministry to have an outreach so that we sensitise SMEs that when there are tenders of public procurement out there, they should apply. They should also make sure that 25% is given to them and if not, they should appeal because by law they are expected to participate.
My answer to the Hon. Member is that, the Ministry has put an Act in place but apart from that, the Ministry is also going around with PRAZ to sensitise SMEs to participate in public procurement. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
Hon. Chinotimba having stood up to raise a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, you cannot raise a point of order when the Hon. Minister has answered, that was the debate.
HON. MOLOKELA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The public perception is that SMEs are not being given access to public procurement opportunities. Can the Minister give us an idea, just this year in 2019, how many SMEs benefitted from public procurement, can she give us statistics?
HON. S. NYONI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. As I said, we are working with PRAZ, this is not a policy question but it needs information and if the Hon. Member could put it in writing, I will be able to go back to PRAZ as well as my Ministry to bring a written answer to his question. It is a very good question, and the House will stand informed.
An Hon. Member having stood up to ask a supplementary question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister says the question must be in writing and she will give a detailed response, so why should we go for supplementary? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – no, let us follow what the Hon. Minister has said.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker ? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order at the back there.
HON. CHIKWINYA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. Hon. Minister, it is my belief that you hold the portfolio of sustaining democracy in Parliament. I would want you to share with us policy mechanisms which you have put in place to ensure that where a case is alleged on a part or a whole division of the House, or a Member of Parliament, that a fair hearing is conducted to the extent that that Committee which hears that privileges case comprises of Members of both Houses of Parliament. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, that question is totally misplaced.
You will state your case when you appear.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Hon. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs because I am trying to separate the roles. I am not trying to argue with the Chair. I want the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs because he is responsible for Parliament, so he must tell us the policy position.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The Hon. Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is not responsible for running
Parliament. That decision has come from the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. So the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is not answerable in that regard.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. You promised that you were going to give food handouts to citizens in the urban areas. You promised that urban dwellers will also benefit from the food handouts in the cities and we notice that these vulnerable groups are now suffering. When are you going to distribute the food?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): The
Government has made plans and at the moment, the Government is in the process of vetting the people who are supposed to benefit from these Government handouts and when the list has been compiled, the process of distributing the food will start immediately. We have also noticed that in most cities, we have some vulnerable groups which have already started benefitting from these food handouts from the Government and if your constituency has not received anything as yet, they will soon be receiving.
We also have another programme where we will be giving food hampers to these vulnerable groups and I am kindly asking you to give us a list or to show us the process which has happened in your constituency so that we see whether we have been missed out and corrective measures will be taken.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. May you please
explain to us - who are the people responsible for actually distributing this food to the vulnerable groups? We have noticed that if these food handouts are given as a responsibility of local councilors or politicians, there is going to be some bias – some partisan politics will be at play, and some people who are said to be in the wrong party will not benefit.
*HON. MATUKE: When we talk about food distribution, in different districts we have committees which have been formed.
Members of these committees are elected by the public and these people are non-partisan because they are coming from the public and they elect people of dignity.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. In my
constituency, it is not everybody who is aged or disabled who needs to be given food handouts.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I am advised that this question is under Written Questions and the Minister will answer in the appropriate time.
HON. SHONGEDZA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises
Development. What is the Government’s policy on providing workspace for small and medium enterprises and vendors?
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, COMMUNITY,
SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES DEVELOPMENT (HON.
NYONI): Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking a very important question that is really setting back a lot of SME growth. In the Ministry, we have about seven pillars that are necessary for making SMEs grow and one of them is decent workspace. So, unless any business person has a decent workspace, it is very difficult for them to grow and even to have a mentality of dignity in going to work. The Ministry has produced a policy that went through Cabinet a few years ago in which we stipulated the number of SME workspace that were needed.
Unfortunately, there was not enough funding during the time but for now, we would like to really ride on the budget in which the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development has allocated money for the SME workspace. We are hoping that in the New Year, we are going to have a workshop that will embrace a lot of stakeholders so that we discuss this issue and then we come up with plans and infrastructure that will be suitable not just for vendors but also for production since now our thrust is production, growth and sustainability. SMEs will not grow as long as they operate in their backyard, as long as they operate in the street and as long as they operate in very unsuitable places. My Ministry is geared next year to really start and initiate a drive to create decent workspace for SMEs. I am hoping that when the budget on my portfolio is discussed, I will get the support of this House to really make sure that we have a budget to facilitate SMEs to have good workspace. Thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
question to the Hon. Minister is with regards to the growth of women. I would like to ask the Hon. Minister if she is happy with the loans that are being given to the women from the Women’s Bank. Let me give you a typical example Madam Speaker. If a woman is given a loan of $50 000, she is given 24 months to pay. At the end of the term, the total amount of that loan will be $140 000 which is 280%. Is the Hon.
Minister convinced that this will help and what is her take? Thank you.
HON. S. NYONI: The original question was on the SME work spaces but I want to appreciate the Hon. Member for asking a question on Women’s Bank. I would like the Hon. Member to put that question in writing so that I give a comprehensive answer because the Women’s bank so far is doing very well. If there are areas that could be improved, we will be very happy for questions like this that would really sharpen the operations of the Bank.
Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member is giving figures and percentages. I think it will be imprudent for me to give a half cooked response because it is very important that when we give loans to women those loans must work for women and not for the bank. I request the Hon. Member to put the question in writing so that I can research on it and give the answer that will be helpful to the Hon. Member and all the women.
HON. NDUNA: I want to know from the Hon. Minister that in terms of these work spaces, is there any coordination, cooperation and networking with the local authorities? I am asking this question because you see that there is cat and mouse in local authorities as it relates to vendors being chased. Is there any coordination in terms of relocation and work spaces related so that we do not unnecessarily saddle the courts as it relates to having interdicts and stopping local authorities from unnecessarily harassing the vendors?
HON. S. NYONI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I think this is a very
pertinent question. In fact, the responsibility of providing spaces for business, residents including SMEs lies with the local authorities. So, the local authorities have a responsibility to provide work spaces for SMEs because they collect revenue. Let me give the Hon. Member just one example. When we were still operating in US dollars, the City of Harare was collecting something like US$36 000 a day from one portion of Siyaso yet Siyaso is very congested, just look at how congested Siyaso is. So what was happening to that money?
Madam Speaker, what we are saying as a Ministry is that the local authorities should work together with us as well as the SMEs to use the money they collect from SMEs to provide decent workspaces. If they cannot, let us then find the private sector or the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development which now has a budget for them to provide land for us to build for the SMES. The Hon. Member is correct, there is usually a cat and mouse whereby the local authorities chase and really harass SMEs. I think that is unfair because their revenue is coming from them.
Let me hasten to say that at one point in our history some cities were relying solely on SMEs for revenue. For instance, there was a time when Bulawayo was getting 67% of its revenue from SMEs. That is why you see Bulawayo being so organised because they know which side their bread is buttered. If a lot of local authorities would do the same, these SMEs would operate better; our GDPs would rise and also our revenue base would rise. So we want to encourage local authorities to take work space for SMEs as part of their planning so that SMEs should be part of the planning strategy because they are the goose that lay the eggs.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that, persistently and consistently reports and statistics from her office have indicated that there is low uptake of things like loans and investment of the SMEs in
Matebeleland region. Of recent, at the past Pre-Budget Seminar, it was indicated that there is also low uptake in terms of employment opportunities in Matebeleland region. Is it a deliberate policy of her Ministry to ensure that resources are invested more in other regions than in Matabeleland region?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, that is a new
question; you better put the question in writing.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Madam Speaker, that one is a purely a policy question and there is no need for me to put it in writing.
HON. S. NYONI: I can answer it Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is okay Hon. Sibanda.
HON. S. NYONI: Hon. Speaker, that question is very important especially for me so that I clear the air. There is no Ministry that sits and says we are going to favour this region against the other. If there is anybody who has come to my Ministry with a programme or with a request and they have been turned down just because they come from one region, they should come to my office and I want to assure this House that corrective action will be taken.
In terms of what transpired in Victoria Falls, I think that is what he is referring to where there was widespread trashing of my person about what I would have said which I never said – [AN HON
MEMBER: It was in your report.] – I was not. All I am saying Hon. Speaker, is that there is nothing like that. There is no discrimination of any Ministry to any region. All I am saying to Hon. Members is that if anyone has a case where they have programmes they should bring them to our offices for corrective action. I think that is the bottom line.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I seek a point of clarity. The Hon. Minister indicated that when people approach her Ministry they do not look at whether this person comes from Region A or B, but does it happen to her after realising her own statistics indicating that a certain province is lagging behind in terms of resources to take proactive action to ensure that those regions that are losing out get whatever is gotten by other regions? Does she wait for people to come to her office and tell her their problems when her offices are in Harare and people in Matabeleland region are the furthest from Harare?
HON. NYONI: Yes, I have taken action. For instance, the
Women’s Bank – I asked them to write a report which I can avail to this House. We went province by province to check on how many loans each province received. When they brought the information to my office, I wrote to all State Ministers and even pointed out that Matabeleland North and South had a low intake. You can come to my office and I can show you the correspondence to your Minister of State in Matabeleland North telling him my concerns on the low intake of the province and asked if the Ministry could assist in any way. I wrote to two others which also had low intakes. Yes Hon Members, I have taken action and every Minister of State has my letter with statistics from the
Women’s Bank for them to respond to. Once they respond we will work together. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I have a point of order I still want to raise. I know that as per procedure I cannot ask another question, but the Hon Minister has indicated that she has written to State Ministers. I thought that her Ministry has got branches and sub branches in the provinces. So my expectation, to be honest was that she should have told me that she had deployed manpower in those affected regions to ensure that people start to take up whatever is supposed to be taken up. Since I cannot ask a question, I will ask the Hon. Minister to make a ministerial statement with regards to that issue so that we get clarity for fear of institutional marginalisation as one coming from Matebeleland. To avoid that, we will interrogate the ministerial statement and if possible could the Minister present the statement tomorrow? I am referring to what came from her own statistics, so it is not about whether she comes from Matabeleland.
HON. NYONI: I just want to comfort the Hon. Member and say that one of the reasons why I was late is because I am developing a blue print of my Ministry in which I want to go to the Public Service and make sure that my Ministry has got coordinators or staff up to Ward level. At that level, my Ministry is going to take community development seriously and to take to account every Ministry seriously to ensure through my coordinators and Ministry of Women Affairs and Community Development, every Ministry is visible at Ward level.
Therefore, his question is already covered. My blue print is in place. Thereafter, I will approach the Public Service and the Hon. Member should note that I do not deploy officials. The officials are deployed by Public Service but I am going to present what we need as a Ministry to the Public Service and hope that they give me the number of personnel that I need, particularly for Matabeleland North as he demands so that every province is well manned by my staff.
HON. KARENYI: Maybe to give a bit of input to the Minister so that she can go and do a survey and incorporate her findings in her report. Minister, when we received the report during the budget, I am sure you received the report that people were emotional about the report from your Ministry. Maybe you have to read that report again. I also sit in the Women’s Affairs Committee, the statistics need to be checked.
What the Hon. Member is saying about Matabeleland North and South – though I do not come from that region but certainly the figures portrayed need a relook. Maybe there is an error or something happened.
HON. MADZIMURE: My question to the Minister is, can she clarify on the assertion – when the report was presented, it was said that Matabeleland North and South do not have people qualified to be Ward Coordinators. Is she aware of that or it was an error that there are no people suitable to be recruited as ward coordinators.
HON. NYONI: When that issue came up, I issued an official statement and I think the Hon. Member should go back to my official statement. I am not going to make it here. In terms of the figures from Matabeleland North and South, Hon. Members, I think let us not play any blame game. If your constituency is lagging behind whose problem is it? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- No it is not the problem at the centre. No, it cannot be. Hon. Speaker it is there in the constituency. If any constituency is lagging behind whose problem is it?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
HON. S. G. NYONI: What have you done to bring those problems to the center? What have you done? The blame game will not work anymore.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members.
HON. DR. LABODE: It is not their fault. It is not anybody’s
fault if your officials are not doing the right thing.
HON. KARENYI: The other thing, you should do your assessments and follow ups. If you do follow ups, you will get the answers. It is not your fault. It is your office’s own fault. You have been doing this for a long time but we are not getting anything – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. S. G. NYONI: Hon. Speaker, I offered – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Allow
the Minister to finish please.
HON. S. G. NYONI: What I am saying is that if there is underdevelopment – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order!
HON. S. G. NYONI: Hon. Ministers, please hear me also –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order!
HON. S. G. NYONI: What I am saying, Hon. Speaker, is that I told this House that we are working on a blueprint and I am going to take it to the Public Service who are the ones who deploy officials, but if there is any underdevelopment in any constituency please, bring it to our attention so that we can act on it. So you cannot blame the Ministry. Let us work at it together. We are in it together. Sisonke, let us be in it together, we cannot blame one side.
HON. MADZIMURE: Point of order Madam Speaker. I asked a question, a simple one. The statistics that were provided by the Ministry indicated that they did not have development officers in Matabeleland North and South because there were no qualified people and this is the question that I wanted her to answer whether it is true or it is false that there are no qualified people.
HON. T. MLISWA: I want to help you – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Dube take your seat or I will send you out. Take your seats. Hon. Mliswa please take your seat.
HON. MADZIMURE: How can you make a point of order before a ruling? You must sit down. You must give a ruling.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker to just help the Hon.
Members – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa!
HON. T. MLISWA: I want to help you – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Take your seat Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: There is a new Permanent Secretary. That Permanent Secretary akaenda, there is a new Permanent Secretary – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- kwane new Permanent Secretary.
HON. N. NDHLOVU: You do not work for the Ministry, you are a Member of Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa please can you
go out.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, things have changed. There is a new Permanent Secretary – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please may you
leave the House.
HON. T. MLISWA: Ndakuenda kunopfeka tracksuit.
HON. S. G. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker, the Hon.
Member asked that there was a statement that said in Matabeleland North people were not employed because they were not educated. I offered an official statement which read like this, that the responsibility to employ members of staff does not rest with my Ministry; it rests with the Public Service Commission and currently the Ministry of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare has frozen all posts not just in Matabeleland, nationally.
Therefore, the statement which was said by my officer was regrettable. I was not in the country. I was out on national duty.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Dube, I will send you
out.
HON. S. G. NYONI: It is going to be corrected, Hon. Speaker. That is why I am saying now the Public Service is well aware of the need for the Ministry to be well staffed throughout the country. So those who want to have details refer to my official statement, but roughly that is what it said. We are not responsible for recruiting; it is all the responsibility of Public Service. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I have got a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, Hon. Sibanda, please take
your seat. The Minister is bringing the Ministerial Statement.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I think that would be very
unfair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is when you will seek
your clarifications.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am not looking for clarification. This is purely a point of order. I think the Hon. Minister went out of order and therefore it is important for me to defend myself and defend my 37 other colleagues who are Members of Parliament for Matabeleland region. Here I am talking about Matabeleland North, there are 13 of us, Bulawayo that has got 12, Matabeleland South that has got 13 and the
total is 38.
The Hon. Minister wants the country to believe that the 38 Members of Parliament from that region are not doing well and that is why her statistics, not our statistics are indicating that her Ministry is investing less in the Matabeleland region. I think for all intents and purposes, that would be unfair because it cannot happen that all the 38 Members of Parliament are inefficient and ineffective. It only points to one person and that is her Ministry. Her Ministry is supposed to have been doing that duty but they are not doing it. So she cannot shift the blame to Hon. Members of Parliament. Her Ministry has to get to the ground and do what they are supposed to do. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, COMMUNITY,
SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES DEVELOPMENT (HON.
NYONI): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I did not say that the Hon. Members from Matabeleland North and South are not doing their duty. I beg your pardon – I did not say that. I said let us all take joint responsibility and that my Ministry has got an open policy. If you have a challenge in your constituency, bring it to my attention and it will be attended to. Let us all take joint responsibility, I want to repeat that. You cannot just blame one side because as an MP, you also have the responsibility to bring problems from your constituency to the relevant Ministries for them to attend to. So let us all have joint responsibility. I did not accuse MPs but I only said let us work together, bring what your constituencies need and we will solve it, but let us not blame each other for what we have not connected about. I thank you Madam Speaker.
Questions without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
HON. A. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, may I request that the time for Questions without Notice be extended by 10 minutes.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have already passed that
stage Hon. Ndebele. Please may you take your seat?
CURBING THE TOTAL DISREGARD OF TRAFFIC LAWS
- HON. KASHIRI asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House what measures the Ministry is putting in place to curb the scourge of total disregard of traffic laws by drivers as we approach the festive season, so that the country does not lose lives.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for that question. There will be a 24 hour traffic blitz involving enforcement agencies such as ZRP and VID a week before and during the festive season. The enforcement agencies will be checking on vehicle road worthiness, drivers’ licences and driver behavior to ensure that drivers observe all the traffic laws. Those found on the wrong side of the law will be prosecuted, whilst vehicles found to be unroadworthy will be impounded.
The Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe in conjunction with ZRP deployed 20 educational road-block campaign teams across the country’s major highways since December 15th, 2019. The Road Safety Campaign will end on January 5th, 2020. This intensified road safety campaign along the major highways is aiming to encourage motorists to reduce speed and to drive with due care and attention so as to reduce carnage during the Christmas and New Year’s holiday. They will also be encouraging drivers not to drink and drive. Drivers are also expected to take breaks and/or rest so that they do not drive continuously for more than 8 hours. I thank you.
HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
question to the Minister is have we capacitated the Road Agencies that are going to police the road-blocks with breathalyzers since it is common knowledge that during the festive season, a lot of drivers will drink and drive? I thank you.
HON. MATIZA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for that question. We do not have enough breathalyzers in the country due to foreign currency shortages but alternative measures will be taken by the police to make sure that the drivers do not drive while they are drunk through educational campaigns.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question refers to the wanton disregard of traffic regulations by motorists, especially those who enter when the traffic lights are red. This is now serious, especially here in Harare and also those who travel opposite the direction of one way roads. What is the Ministry doing to make sure that that comes to an end because a lot of accidents are happening and it is endangering lives of pedestrians as well. Thank you.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would
like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. My Ministry, cognisant of the fact that there is rampant recklessness in driving with our local drivers, has put in place mechanisms that will make sure that this will come to an end. We will start with the driver training schools. There are programmes that are there to make sure those meet the standards that are required for them to be operating and that they have qualified staff.
Secondly, we have already started deploying in Harare,
Chitungwiza, Bulawayo and other cities e-learners’ licence. This has gone a long way to curb churning of unqualified drivers. In addition to these measures, we are also working hand in hand with the law enforcement agents ZRP, especially this holiday and onwards, these programmes will be going on. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My
supplementary question emanates from all the answers that have been given by the Hon. Minister. They relate to the act of the road users whilst using the vehicle. I want to relate to you on the conditions, of the roads, it is rainy season and grass is growing on the sides of the road, fence is dilapidated on the sides of the road. What mechanisms are you putting in place because this puts hazards to the road users. Cattle are finding their way into the main tarmac, what policy measures are you putting in place to deal with the hazards around our major highways?
Thank you.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member. As a Ministry we have a programme of road maintenance. If you look at mainly the major highways, there is work going on now soon after the rains have started to maintain our roads and that will be continous to make sure that the roads are safe.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Allow me to
take the Hon. Minister back to his first answer that he was reading. I want him to tell us from his answer that he gave at first, what it is that is new that as a Ministry they have introduced which they have not been practicing in the previous years when we have been experiencing carnage on the road? What is it that is new for this particular holiday from the list of activities and measures that you are taking? What is it that is new from what you have been doing previously that you think is going to help the carnage on our roads?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: What is new is the intensification of the processes in the measures of making sure that our drivers do not go on the road drunk. They must use roadworthy vehicles [AN. HON.
MEMBER: Have you not been doing that all the years?] –
STRETCH BETWEEN CROSS ROAD AND KWEKWE
- HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House when the Ministry will do the 5km stretch of road between Cross Roads and Kwekwe which has been ready for resurfacing over the past six months so that the scarce resources that have been used will not go down to waste when the rain season sets.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRACTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Kwekwe-Nkayi Road is one of the projects in the ongoing road development programme. The timelines for implementation of the projects has been delayed due to the rate at which funding is released for the project by Treasury.
The project was allocated $3.5 million in the initial budget for 2019 but unfortunately this was not availed. However, it was then allocated $5.5 million in the supplementary budget for 2019 of which $1.9 million has been released. This will go a long way in surfacing the road given that bitumen for surfacing this section was procured six months ago. The released funds will be used to purchase the surfacing stone as well as pay for the labour and equipment for the surfacing of this road section. This will protect the work done so far as well as provide the public with an additional 5 km of a good tarred road. I thank you.
+HON. M. M. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister as I speak, I am from the same road and since 1994 there is nothing that has been done on this road. As I speak, the $1.9 million that is being spoken about, Bitumen came and they are on the ground but there is nothing that is being done. What I want to know is the timeframe that you have.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Hon. Member, I said $1.9 million has
been released. Since the road works were stopped, there is need for remobilisation of the contractor who is going to be working on this programme and this is the process that is taking place. So early next year we should see work on site being done. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker. The road is in a bad state. We appeal to you Hon. Minister so that the few kilometres can be resurfaced from Cross Roads to Kwekwe. Our constituencies are facing challenges, they are paying large amount of monies up to $50. We request that the roads be serviced. We know that resources are available but my request is that the road be treated with the emergency it deserves.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member
for the question. Like I said before, $1.9 million was released out of the $5.5 million. So, as and when we receive resources and money, we will make sure that road is serviced. As a Ministry, our desire is to push for the money that was budgeted for to be released so that the money is used to refurbish these roads. This is what I promise we will do.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is – 2019 is coming to an end and the money that was allocated to most local authorities has not been disbursed. Almost 80% of local authorities never received any cent of the money that was allocated by
ZINARA towards road construction and road maintenance. What is the Ministry doing to make sure that at least road authorities that is local authorities get money for road maintenance?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Hon. Member for the
question. ZINARA has been restructured and we have managed to make sure that the acting positions have been filled up. We have managed to turn the organisational culture in ZINARA to a professional one. What is left now are the Finance Director and the Chief Executive whose interviews are finishing today. Now, there is efficiency in disbursing ZINARA funds. What is the problem? It is that many of the local authorities have not acquitted the money they have been given. It is a condition for them to get the next tranche if they acquit. We have several local authorities who have not acquitted because most of them have abused the funds. They have bought cars for themselves, they are unable to acquit and that is where the problem is. If the responsible councilors or Members of Parliament in their areas ask this question of acquittal they will find where the problem is. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. The Hon.
Minister in his response to the primary question and also in his response to Hon. Zhou’s supplementary question pleaded poverty that they are not able to complete those roads projects because they do not have the necessary resources. The Hon. Minister’s Ministry is notorious for advertising on ZBC showing some billboards of road projects that they claim to be completing in a short space of time. Why does his Ministry mislead citizens by advertising? I will give you an example of the KaroiBinga Road. On television, it is appearing with some billboards as if that road has been covered some kilometers when actually there is nothing
on the ground. Why is your Ministry misleading the nation when you are pleading poverty in completion of those projects?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Hon. Member. My Ministry
does not mislead. The Ministry has projects that are already put on the budget. The issue is of funding, we are here in Parliament and we know the roads that have not been funded – we know the roads that we have funded. We actually know the roads whose funds have been released and whose funds have not been released though the funds that have been allocated.
So the blame cannot be given to the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development. – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Who is funding the advert on television?] –
MAINTENANCE OF ROADS UNDER RECONSTRUCTION
- HON. S. S. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain Government policy regarding the maintenance of roads that are under reconstruction from serious degradation.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Thank you Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon.
Member for the question.
Madam Speaker, for the purposes of road reconstruction, a detour is constructed in order to accommodate traffic while the existing road is being rehabilitated. The standard of the detour depends on the level of traffic along the road. The detours for the road traffic roads are made of just clearing and grading the road during the rehabilitation while those for high traffic roads are actually constructed to the standard of gravel roads.
The maintenance of these detours consists of watering and grading of the riding surface. The frequency of the watering depends on the dryness of the ground while that of the grading depends on the traffic levels since the higher traffic levels result in the faster deterioration of the riding surface. These maintenance activities are carried out in order to suppress dust as well as keep the riding surface in a fairly smooth state. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Hon.
Minister Sir, the issue for roads and infrastructure that is under construction – I have got an institutional memory of the bid bond and insurance as it relates to insuring those roads that are under construction in terms of averting and avoiding degradation during infrastructure development. May you shed more light on this occurrence if it is still in existence and to what extent it covers your Ministry in terms of a fall back during reconstruction and infrastructure development?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. When roads are being constructed by us as a Ministry, we do not provide bid bonds but when they are being done by private contractors yes, the Hon. Member is right. Bid bonds and insurance is provided to the extent of the works that are being carried out. I thank you.
*HON. J. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker, a good example of my supplementary to the Hon. Minister is the Masvingo road. I want to know whether these people set up a time factor when they start constructing these roads. Are they aware of the flow of traffic? When you look at the Masvingo Road, the contractors have been working for about a year but as of now, even the detour that they worked on is now worn out and the road is still incomplete. So we have a challenge of a damaged road and damaged detour and this presents problems to cars that are damaged and accidents happening.
*HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Madam Speaker and thank you Hon. Member for the question. Regarding the Masvingo Road, we have so many years that have been aside for the repair of the road. Government realised that Zimbabweans are able to reconstruct and repair their own roads and we have started repairing that road.
In response to the question, whenever we are working on a road – we set out the timetables especially in areas like Chivhu and Beatrice. We had problems in that when we changed the money systems, the costs ended up rising and as a result there was a hiccup that led to the draw back on the repair and construction of these roads. It is our wish that these roads are completed and we had to retender this to six contractors so that each has a portion to work on. As of now, we are on phase one which involves widening and rehabilitating the road from 7.5 to 12.5 meters whereby we SADC standards.
Let me try to make you visualize that, please go to Beatrice and check on the 3.5 – you will notice that the road has been marked and you can now visualize what the end product will be like. As far as we are concerned the road should be through in 2023. I thank you.
HON. NYAMUDEZA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want the Hon.
Minister to clarify something about this road reconstruction because when a road is being reconstructed. What is the policy between the reconstructed part and that area that not under reconstruction … THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member,
are you asking a supplementary question?
HON. NYAMUDEZA: Yes!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am on question Number Six and I called Hon. Svuure …
HON. NYAMUDEZA: No, it is me Madam Speaker Ma’am. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
TRANSPORT SITUATION IN RURAL ROUTES
- HON. SVUURE asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House the measures that the Ministry has taken to improve the transport situation in rural routes particularly in view of the pending Christmas holiday and the ridiculous prices that are being charged.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question.
Madam Speaker, Government will ensure that ZUPCO has
deployed enough buses during the festive season to ply the rural routes as well as city to city routes. The ZUPCO buses will ensure that people are transported safely to their rural homes at affordable fares. This strategy is targeted to ensure that people get enough transport during the festive season. I thank you.
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
I think that the Hon. Minister is responding in relation to areas that are quite developed, areas where there are tarred roads and so on. I am neighbour to Hon. Svuure and our area has the worst road networks in this country. The roads have not been attended to for almost 10 years now and they are Government roads. They are also the main roads for those constituencies that we are talking about. I do not know whether the Hon. Minister would tell us how much is being done about rural roads – those that just need grading and gravelling.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): We have four road authorities; Department of Roads which is the Ministry of Transport, the Local Authorities, the Rural Authorities and DDF. From what I gather, the Hon. Member is talking of the other authorities which are not department of roads. Those have their own Budgets and in some cases they have their own equipment.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, the question speaks
about the efficiency about the efficiency of transport in the rural areas. I want to know what measures, besides just improving the transport network in the rural areas of the mass transport system. What measures has the Minister put in place to make sure that those mass transport operators, in particular the drivers above 25 years of age, have got a medical certificate and have got a defensive driver’s licence and have got a certificate of competence or the five basic principles that make sure that they are qualified to drive so that we avert and completely eradicate road carnage? What measures have been put in place to ensure that the credentials of these people can be captured because I remember that 65% of these public transport operators did not have the requisite qualification of driving those mass transport systems in the rural areas in Zimbabwe in general?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: First of all, I would like to acknowledge the fact that we have reckless, unfit and unlicensed drivers on our roads. That is very true. Especially for this holiday, we have put in place a measure ensuring that there are road blocks manned by our ZRP, VID and even the educationist will be there. They will be checking on these five documents the Hon. Member has mentioned. We are going to make it very tight and strict in order to avert any accidents.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: The Hon. Minister has made an undertaking in his response that they are going to deploy more ZUPCO buses in rural areas and we are all aware that these buses are under a subsidy and that is a cost to the Government.
Minister, where are you going to get those extra ZUPCOs to deploy in the rural areas because when you tell people that this is what I am going to do, they will start to budget along those lines? Where are you going to get those extra ZUPCO buses and at what projected extra cost to the fiscus?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: The ZUPCO programme is a Local Government issue but I will –[HON. P. D. SIBANDA: That is an abuse.] – I will answer the question. It is a programme – we buy some buses and deploy; some we franchise. It is not about looking for new buses every time. We franchise the buses that are in those areas so that they operate as ZUPCOs. That is how we mitigate against that question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I know they do franchising and I do understand that; but I your reports was pointing to a planned programme; then tell us the projected extra costs to Government that you are going to incur because of that programme that you are going to come up with.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: The issue of financing this whole programme rests with the Ministry of Finance. If you put that question to the Minister of Finance you will get the details of extra.
CONSTRUCTION OF VID CENTRE IN LUPANE
- HON. M. NKOMO asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House when a Vehicle Inspection Department (VID) depot will be constructed in Lupane which has since become a provincial capital for Matabeleland North, considering the fact that people have to travel either to Bulawayo or Hwange for VID services and the distance is long.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Madam Speaker Ma’am, the Ministry of Transport and
Infrastructural Development submitted bids for the construction of the VID Depot in Lupane to Treasury in 2019. However, no funds were allocated for this project in the 2020 National Budget. In this regard, we will be submitting bids again in 2020 for the construction of the Lupane VID Depot in early 2021 and see if Treasury allocates funds for this project.
HON. TSUNGA: My supplementary question relates to the inconvenience to the population of Matabeleland North – those wishing to have themselves licensed. Is there any provision from the VID for mobile unit to Lupane so that the people of Lupane and surrounding areas have ready access to VID services?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: The question of VID services at the present moment in Matabeleland North in Lupane has not been given funding. We have put bids to Treasury so that we can have full and comprehensive services for Lupane.
HON. NDUNA: My supplementary question resides in terms of coordination, collaboration and networking VID institutions and CVR because during my time again, you would find a genuine fake licence being sold at CVR but something that is given as a certificate of competence at VID. As a panacea or an antidote to such a happening, there was a system that was called ZIMTIS which sought to regularise and to network VTS, ZIMRA, CVR, VID, ZINARA and RMT.
My question is, how far has this programme taken root in order that we do not have people who are criss-crossing willy-nilly the width and depth of our roads with fake licenses arising from a disintegrated transport system.
Zimbabwe Integrated Transport Management System, (ZIMTIS), how far are we in terms of initiating and completing such an initiative, which is very noble by the way. It reduces road carnage from 5 to average 3 the global issue.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member again for the question. The Government has seen it fit to introduce transport management system because there were loopholes and gaps in the whole system, allowing criminals together with reckless people getting fake licenses and papers to the extent that even registration books for vehicles were being faked and stolen. So the Government came with this system and it is in the progress of being implemented as we speak. However, the hindrance is the issue of foreign currency, when it comes it is in dribs and drabs but our Ministry is taking this seriously and we have discussed this issue with relevant departments and Ministries so that we can speed up this process. Once this process is finished, stealing cars, driving without a drivers’ licence or with a with fake drivers’ licences will be a thing of the past. I thank
you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am not going to talk about forex or fake marriages that the Hon. Minister was speaking about. However, I just want to draw the Hon. Minister back to his initial statement where he seems to indicate that he did not prioritise Lupane for a VID Station for the 2020 budget for whatever reasons that the Hon. Minister did it. The question then is; do we have any other provincial capital in the country that does not have a VID Station other than Lupane, the provincial capital for Matebeleland North. If we do not have, why is it not your priority that Lupane as a provincial capital should receive those services. I thank you.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Hon. Member and thank you
Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to correct the Hon. Member that the Ministry
did not prioritise, that is not correct. We prioritise it and put the bids in 2019 and nothing came out from the Treasury. This question should be directed to Treasury anyway. We did again for 2020 and it was not acknowledged or there was no – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible
interjection.] – yes, but this is the story. We debate everyday with the Minister of Finance, why do you not push for that whilst you are here instead of talking a post-mortem. We are now going into 2021; we will still put it again for the third time. I thank you.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: Part of my question was not answered. Is there any other provincial capital in Zimbabwe that does not have those VID services?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: What I can respond to is that Lupane is a new capital and we are making all efforts as I have indicated in my address. The Ministry has tried three times to do that. The only person to answer this is the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, I thank you.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: I find it insulting Hon. Speaker for the Hon. Minister to indicate that Lupane is a new provincial capital. Can he tell me which other provincial capital for Matabeleland North he knows since 1980? Since this one is new, it means that there is an old provincial capital. Can he advise us which one is the old provincial capital?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Yes, you see; first of all administration was being done in Bulawayo, everybody is aware of this. So, when I say new, I do not mean the newness in existence, no, I mean the new in terms of operationalisation of the capital. So, that is how it is.
REPAIR OF CHIVAMBA-ZINGWENA ROAD IN ZAKA WEST
CONSTITUENCY
- Hon. Murambiwa asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House when the Ministry will repair the Chivamba-Zingwena Road in Zaka West Constituency which is in a state of dilapidation and therefore impassible to those using vehicles.
THE HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question. There are four road authorities in Zimbabwe namely, the Department of Roads under my
Ministry, Urban Councils, District Development Fund (DDF) and the
Rural District Councils (RDCs). Chivambe-Zingwena Road in Zaka West Constituency falls under Zaka Rural District Council, usually the maintenance and rehabilitation of such roads is done by the relevant authority. I thank you.
*HON. MURAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
supplementary question is based on the fact that, I think that road is maintained by DDF and not the Rural District Council. So, I am not quite satisfied with the Minister’s response. I thank you.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think I need
to make a correction, the Hon. Member is right; it is DDF which is in charge of that road. They have a budget and equipment and have offices in the District. Those are the people the Hon. Member must be able to get proper answers from. I thank you.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Just some clarification Mr. Speaker Sir, can the Hon. Minister advise whether the local authorities specify the roads that they will be attending to in any given financial year in regard to disbursements made by ZINARA to the local authorities? I thank you.
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: Thank you Hon. Member and thank you
Mr. Speaker. The roads in rural district councils are identified by their committees there, through their councilors. So, it is them who identify the local people, the roads they want for the year to be funded and these are the roads which, when they are listed, ZINARA then comes in to fund them. These roads authorities have their own engineers who do the engineering work and they can get external services if they wish, if they do not have internal capacity. So, it starts from the rural authority and then interfaces with ZINARA in that manner. I thank you.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. There
has been an outcry by local authorities that when vehicles are licenced, the money goes to ZINARA and they do not get any significant amounts so that the local authorities are able to maintain their roads. Is there any consideration by the Ministry that licence fees for motor vehicles are retained by local authorities so that they are able to maintain the roads at the local level? As it stands, it looks like ZINARA gets the greater chunk of the money and does not timeously release those monies to local authorities for road maintenance. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Order, order. May I advise Hon. Members to please relate to the question asked and not to use this time to go to policy questions or other unrelated questions.
HON. TSUNGA: I thought I was within the confines of the original question. I also drew some of my submissions from the responses that the Hon. Minister gave that has direct relevance to maintenance of roads at the local level.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, my
understanding is that the person who asked the question was answered.
It is a specific question on a road and now you are diverting.
HON. TSUNGA: It is going to be helpful to him and to all of us.
Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the repair of Chivamba – Zingwena road in Zaka West Constituency speaks to and about some trunk roads and side roads. There is a whole department of contractors who were trained in labour based road construction. This is the first issue. Will the Minister be amenable in terms of re-igniting or reactivation of this department of people in order that they alleviate the plight of the local authorities and the other authorities who are supposed to be repairing these roads? In the quest for repairing these roads, there is also employment creation. I will give examples of Wilnos Matowa and Changwa in Plumtree, Chachacha Road in Shurugwi and Empress Copper Queen in Gokwe. All these roads were constructed using labour based methods without first coming into town and requesting for equipment from the Minister of Transport but organising labour in the quest. Is he able to re-ignite and also make sure that the miners around that area also reconstruct roads?
HON. ARCH. MATIZA: I want to thank the Hon. Member. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry is in the process of making a number of innovations and revisions to the way we operate. Firstly, we would want to stop the issue of hiring equipment. We would want to hire contractors. This will give efficiency, saving of money and timeous completion of the projects. Secondly, we are putting in a measure to make sure majority of our works like cutting grass and the like are labour based. Yes, the advantages that have been talked by the Hon. Member are real and that will help a number of families around the roads to be gainfully employed. I thank you.
COMPLETION OF CONSTRUCTION OF BULAWAYO-NKAYI
ROAD
- HON. TSUNGA asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House when the construction of the Bulawayo – Nkayi Road will be completed considering that the project has been outstanding for more than 35 years.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The Bulawayo – Nkayi Road is a primary road which links Bulawayo and Nkayi and also provides a direct link between Bulawayo and Gokwe in the Midlands Province. The upgrading has been going on over a long period of time. The upgrade of the road from narrow mat to surfaced standard commenced in 1993 with a feasibility study. The actual construction using donor funding from the Kuwait Fund commenced in 1996. The donor pulled out in the year 2000 after completing the designs for 65 kilometres and the construction of one bridge as well as 29 kilometres of road.
My department of roads took over the construction of the road in
2001 and did construction up to 44 kilometre peg as well as complete
Mbembesi and Ingwingwisi Bridges which are now trafficable. This process has been slow due to the rate at which funding for the implementation of the project is availed by Treasury. Work was suspended by my department this year due to the unavailability of funding and will resume as soon as further funding is availed. Thank you.
HON. S. K. MGUNI: Hon. Speaker, I do agree that the road is under maintenance but my concern is on the pace in which the road is progressing. The Minister said construction of the road started in 1996 but the fact is it started in 2004. The pace that the road is going on is very sluggish. I would suggest that if the Minister has got time, the people should submit weekly reports on the progress of that road. Thank you.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
RELEASE OF FUNDS FOR CONSTRUCTION OF ROADS BY
ZINARA TO THE CITY OF GWERU
- HON. CHIBAYA asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House when the Zimbabwe National Roads Authority (ZINARA) will release funds to the City of Gweru to enable the local authority to complete construction of the following roads in Mkoba Constituency.
- From Mkoba 7 bus stop to Mkoba 15 turn-off; and
- Mkoba 12 turn-off to Mkoba 17 turn-off
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.
MATIZA): Mr. Speaker Sir, Gweru City Council submitted the first funds request of $217,009.13 for the construction of Swazi road (Mkoba
7 to Mkoba 17), Moramutambara road (connecting Mkoba 20, Mkoba
16 and Mkoba 17) and Chidhanana road, which ZINARA has since paid. The construction of Chidhanana road has not yet started although it is part of the contract.
The second request for funds amounting to $2,556,803.86 was done on the 8th of November, 2019. Processing of the certificate is in progress and payment to the local authority will be effected once all necessary checks and evaluations have been completed by 13th December, 2019. I thank you.
HANDING OVER OF VEHICLE LICENCING TO LOCAL
AUTHORITIES BY THE GOVERNMENT
- HON. S. CHAMISA asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain to the House why the Government is not handling over the licencing of vehicles to local authorities so that the fees collected can enable speedy road repairs by these authorities.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MATIZA): Thank
you Madam Speaker. It is Government policy to centralise the collection of all road user charges under ZINARA. Statutory Instrument 141 of 2013, cited as the Vehicle Registration and Licensing (Amendment) Regulation 2013 (No. 15) gives mandate for collection of vehicle licences to ZINARA. The centralization was done in order to facilitate fair distribution of funds for road construction to all road authorities across the country so that development is balanced across provinces. This approach will complement current Government policy on devolution.
The road user charges collected by ZINARA are ring-fenced and strictly used only for road related works across the country, regardless of the amount contributed by each local authority or province. This will reduce the development gap between urban and rural areas, ensure balanced growth and leads to increased access to markets by farmers. Therefore, Government has no plan to hand over licensing of vehicles to local authorities. I thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
MOTION
WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION FROM THE ORDER PAPER.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I move in terms of Standing Order Number 157 that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Bill be removed from the Order Paper.
Motion; With leave, withdrawn.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE FIRST REPORT OF
THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON BUDGET, FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ON MR. CHARLES MANDIZVIDZA
GANAGANA’S PETITION TO PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE ON
THE ORDER PAPER
HON. MHONA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move that the motion on the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Budget,
Finance and Economic Development on Mr. Charles Mandizvidza Ganagana’s petition to Parliament of Zimbabwe on progress made on the implementation of the recommendations of the Commission of
Inquiry into the conversation of insurance and pension values for the
Zimbabwe dollar to the United States dollar which was superseded by the end of the First Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. P. MOYO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker, I
move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 32 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 33 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND READING: FREEDOM OF INFORMATION BILL [H. B. 6,
2019]
Thirty-third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the
Second Reading of the Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6, 2019].
Question again proposed.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I have made an undertaking that in 2019, I will try to be as paperless as possible and go as electronic as possible. I think it is important than for us to leave these screens idle for a whole year without utilising them. Therefore, I am waiting for the IT people to put across the Report of the Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services.
The Committee brings to the House the Freedom of Information Bill [H. B. 6, 2019] was gazetted on 5th July 2019. Consequently, in accordance with Standing Order No. 135 the Bill was referred to the Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services requiring the Committee to discharge its scrutiniSing function, so as to make appropriate recommendations. The Bill seeks to repeal Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act (AIPPA) and also give effect to sections 61 and 62 of the Constitution.
The Portfolio Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services conducted public hearings from 19-22 and 26-30 August 2019 in Harare, Bindura, Marondera, Mutare and Masvingo, Plumtree, Tsholotsho, Bulawayo, Kwekwe and Kadoma and considered written submissions from various stakeholders.
Clause 1: Short title: Freedom of Information Act
The title of the Bill be changed from Freedom of Information to
Access to information Bill to represent the African law model.
- Clause 2: Interpretation
It was recommended that there should be a clear definition for a
(holder of statutory office) for example Registrar General Department.
Moreso, the definition of a ‘responsible person’ should include the principal officer or one of several officers of a private entity.
It was highlighted that the minimum qualifications for information officers should be clearly outlined in the Bill.
Clause 3: Objects of Act
It was recommended that there is need for pro-active disclosure of information rather than entities only providing information upon request.
Clause 5: Duty to Disclose Information
It was recommended that public entities must draft policies, manuals on public rights and privileges , and other documentation that detail handling of information request and how to resolve complains relating to access to information.
Clause 6: Act not to apply to certain public entities and persons.
It was recommended that the Bill should provide for the time period beyond which records and information relating to deliberations and functions of Cabinet and its Committee may be declassified and shared, 10 to 15 years would suffice for the declassification
Clause 7: Request for access to Information
Stakeholders informed the Committee that Clause 7 states that information request be done in written form, thus excluding the illiterate, disabled people and visually impaired. Information requests should also be done orally to promote information requests from people that have low literacy and proficiency levels in written languages as well as people visual challenges.
Information Officer would receive the verbal request and then reduce them to writing with the assistance of the person making the request. It was suggested that the information should be requested through use of internet.
Stakeholders emphasized that information from the Private entities be accessed in the same manner as information from the Public entities is accessed.
Clause 8: Response to Request
It was submitted that the period for request responses is too long and should be reduced to at least five days or less, with some advocating for 48hours or 3 working days since information easily become obsolete.
Clause 9: Extension of time
The stakeholders proposed that an Information Officer must furnish adequate reasons for extending the time to process a request and the reasons should be provided to the applicant in written form.
The Bill is silent on redirection of irrelevant submissions to the rightful entities. Information officers should ensure that such submissions be forwarded to the rightful boards rather than stalling and rendering these submissions as obsolete and meaningless. Such transfers must be made within 5 days of receiving a request for information.
Clause 10: Deemed Refusal
Stakeholders highlighted that this clause is prone to abuse and creates laziness. There should be formal communication from the information officer either verbal or in written form providing the justification for failure to notify on a decision for the request made by the applicant.
The Bill should include a fine of $500 for an officer who fails, refuses to provide and mis-inform the applicant of the required and requested information.
Clause 13: Forms of Access
The stakeholders informed the Committee that this section does not specifically provide for other forms that would cater for people with disabilities such as visual impairment. It was recommended that the Bill must be cleared and more expansive on the forms in which access to information may be secured to cover for all the population groups including people with visual impairments, through for example braille documents, at no extra cost to the applicant.
Clause 14: Severability
Stakeholder highlighted that the inclusion of a severability clause is commendable; however it was recommended that the clause should further provide for redaction as an alternative.
Clause 16: Language of access
The stakeholders highlighted that information must be availed to people in the language of choice and also taking cognizant of sign language and oral communication to cater for the people living with disabilities.
Clause 17: Fees
Stakeholders acknowledged that fees are necessary as they are used to purchase required stationary necessary to facilitate information requests. However, stakeholders highlighted that the bill should not permit the charging of repetitive fees for example search and inspection fee as they are prone to abuse in a way that prevents people from seeking information and Government should bear the costs for translations and not the people.
Clause 18: Report to Commission.
It was recommended that the Zimbabwe Media Commission should not be given powers to oversee the bill but rather ZHRC be given the mandate to deal with the administration of the freedom of Information Law while others were of the view that giving the powers to ZHRC is like overburdening the Commission which should be looking into Human rights appeals.
Clause 20: Refusal of Access
The Committee was informed by the public that the bill must have a mandatory public interest override clause included in Part IV Grounds for refusal of Access to Information. It is important for the public interest to be protected at all costs and information should be proactively published in those circumstances.
Clause 31: Manifestly, frivolous or vexatious requests, or request involving substantial and unreasonable diversion of resources
It was highlighted that the clause is prone to abuse by information officers and stakeholder recommended that terms and justifications on frivolous request should be clearly set out in the Bill. Other stakeholders recommended that the section be repealed.
Clause 41: Repeal of Cap. 10:27 and savings
Stakeholders recommended that this section should fall out and fresh regulations should be created.
COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS
Regarding the proposal for the title of the Bill to reflect as “Access to Information”, the Committee was of the view that it would associate the Bill with the AIPPA which it seeks to repeal. A new title therefore, would reflect a shift from the infamous provisions in AIPPA.
The Committee commended the Ministry for the inclusion of a provision which require public entities to pro-actively provide information through voluntarily publication rather than just to act on requests.
Additionally, the Committee noted that the objects are formulated in a language that reflects a strong consciousness of the constitutional benchmark and as such, the Committee expressed satisfaction with the objects of the Bill.
In clause 5 the Committee was of the view that the duty of information officers should extend to that of assisting applicants requesting any information in their custody.
The Committee highlighted that as a matter of policy each entity should publish its policies in line with the regulations on handling of information requests and resolutions of complaints relating to access of information.
Under Clause 7 the Committee was in agreement with the submissions from the public for information to be made available to anyone in need of it. In its current form the Bill provides just for written information and does not take into account the information needs for disabled persons such as the blind.
In Clause 17 the Committee was in support of the submissions that fees should be nominal and avoid charging repetitive fees such as search fee and inspection fee. They commented that there should be one fee that encompasses related fees and coexisting payments.
COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS
The Committee makes the following recommendations:
That in the Clause 5, the duty for Information Officers should be extended to include that of assisting applicants requesting for information;
That in Clause 5 as a matter of policy, each entity should publish its policy on handling of information request and how to resolve complaints relating to access to information;
That Clause 6 (a) should not apply to information which is classified and the Bill must specify the period of declassification;
That in Clause 7, there should be acknowledgement forms that record the assistance given to a person making the request orally. More so, there should be a provision of information in the language used in requesting such information;
That in Clause 8, the request by the media practitioners should be responded to within 48 hours and that by the general public should be provided within a maximum of 7 days;
That in Clause 9, there should be transferability of information requested to the entity that holds such information. In the event that the request was made to the wrong entity, the extension time should not exceed five (5) days;
That Clause 10 relating to deemed refusal should be expunged from the Bill as it violates section 68 of the Constitution which provides for the right to administrative justice. The clause is prone to abuse by information officers as the bill does not provide the specific reasons for refusals;
That in Clause 16, an entity holding the information should recover translation costs from the applicant if such information is requested in other languages not officially recognized in Zimbabwe;
That in Clause 17, fees should be nominal and that the Bill should not permit the charging of repetitive fees. Additionally, the Ministry should gazette a schedule to act as guidance of the statutory fees charged;
Clause 18 provides for the submission of annual reports on the number of request for access to information received and request for access granted in full to the Commission. In this regard, the Committee recommended that Zimbabwe Media Commission (ZMC) as an independent commission should be given the powers to oversee the Reports which then reports to Parliament through the Minister as provided for in the Constitution;
There is need to revisit Clause 30 to ensure public entities should not be insulated against public scrutiny;
That in Clause 31 the Bill should clearly define the frivolous or vexatious requests, otherwise in the absence of that, the clause must be expunged;
CONCLUSION
The Freedom of Information Bill is commendable as it has some positive departures from the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act (AIPPA), including measures aimed at promoting transparency and accountability. However, there remain other issues related to the accessibility of information that must be given immediate attention to bring the Bill in line with section 62 of the Constitution. The Bill is silent on a number of issues which include the inability to transfer requests from one entity to another among others. Nevertheless, the recommendations proffered above could assist the current Bill in achieving its stated objectives and the Committee will bring amendments during Committee Stage.
HON. A. MPOFU: Hon. Speaker, allow me to make just a brief observation regarding the public hearings that have produced this wonderful report. Firstly, I would like to say that the success of any public hearing among other factors also depends on the obtaining political environment. When citizens feel that they can express themselves without fear, they robustly and openly express their views on issues that affect their daily lives. Mr. Speaker Sir, it was evident as we conducted these public hearings that the general public felt very safe and free to express their views. I would like to add that this is in great measure, the political atmosphere prevailing under the new dispensation as championed by His Excellency President E. D. Mnangagwa – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - In addition to the general atmosphere where people feel free to express themselves was another factor Mr. Speaker
Sir.
This was the earnestness around that time when the public hearings were conducted which the Executive through the Ministry engaged with stakeholders regarding the repeal of AIPPA and its replacement with three pieces of legislations that include this Freedom of Information. Indeed, the crowds that came to the public hearings were not necessarily very impressing, let me say at least by political rally standards but the engagement of those that had attended were very intense and they were very forthright, robust and there were no holds barred.
Therefore, as already expressed by the Chairperson through his report….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, is that his
report or the Committee’s report?
HON. A. MPOFU: Mr. Speaker Sir, the report that has been presented to you has been comprehensive but I would like to just pick a few issues. These may have already been mentioned but it is very important because this Bill from the impression that your Committee got is very important to our people. Therefore, it is very important that
some of the points we do in fact repeat them so that we can give all the perspectives that came out.
First, is the issue of the scope of the Bill. This Bill says every citizen has a right to information held by public bodies. As already pointed out, in other jurisdictions, information held by private bodies is also deemed to be necessary to be accessed by the citizens. This point came out very clearly that especially in this digital age a lot of private bodies actually hold more information on citizens and issues to do with the economic and political developments of the country more than even public bodies. Therefore, it is only essential that may be subject to public interest test that this information should also be accessed by citizens.
The second aspect Mr. Speaker Sir is the duty to produce information. There was a very strong feeling that it should be the duty of whoever is responsible, whether the information officer designated, that information officer should not just have an obligation to release information requested. The law should expressly require public bodies to search for information that they should in fact hold and assist those who request to get information from other bodies that may hold the information which they themselves may not have at that particular moment when a request is made.
Moreover, the public feels that it is the duty of the public body to proactively disclose information which implicitly imposes a duty to collect or generate certain listed categories of information. So the public feels that there is definitely some information which should proactively be given out there to the public.
The issue of language has already been touched on Mr. Speaker Sir. This is a very sensitive matter. What came out was the fact that language, citizenship, empowerment are greatly tied together and that citizens feel immediately disempowered if they are not allowed to express or to request information that they need in the language of their choice – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – especially within the constitutional obligation of 16 languages. So there is a general perception that this law, excellent as it is, might not be properly delivered as a public servant.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the public were of the opinion that information officers or those responsible to deliver the information should have adequate training and this should be specifically obligated on those who have to deliver the information. So the training, behaviour, culture should show that they are actually committed to delivering that important public service. What this says Mr. Speaker, is that the public is concerned with the behaviour of those who might actually be tasked and that the law should state that it is obligatory for all bodies to train not only on the law but also on the behaviour and attitude of delivering good public service – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, I want to make a
very important observation. This Bill is one of the Bills under reforms and Members from the left side of this House have been crying about these reforms but they are not here. May leaders from the left side please call Members to come back to the Chamber because this is a very important Bill in terms of reforms. You can continue Hon. Member.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Of course, a
clash of views during public hearings is quite healthy and this happened on one aspect which is very key. Mr. Speaker Sir, there was a lot of debate concerning what to do when a request is refused or the conduct of the person responsible to give information leaves much to be desired. There was a lot of argument as to whether one should resort to the Human Rights Commission when rights have been violated or whether the Information Commissioner should be the person to whom an appeal should be made. A robust debate took place and your Committee noted that this is a very important consideration.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the public out there is not naive. The public states that it is their right to access information but they also recognised and they said this very clearly. Whilst the public wants to exercise their right to access information from public bodies they were also very clear that the right to access information is not absolute. They do recognise and acknowledge that freedom of information should be subject to limitations to protect certain types of information from disclosure. These are exceptions necessary to protect national security interests, and legitimate commercial interests. In these cases, the public is clear that the limitations on the right to access information would be responding to a very legitimate national purpose and the legitimate aims for exceptions to this freedom of expression as recognised by the publics themselves include national security, public safety, public order and the protection of public health and the protection of the rights of others. I would like to thank you for this opportunity.
HON. SHAMU: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make
my contribution to this very important debate. As you rightly pointed out, these are the necessary reforms that people have been clamouring for, for a long time. I would like to thank the Chairman of our Committee, Hon. Prince Sibanda for the way he delivered the report emanating from the findings and recommendations of our Committee.
He did provide a refreshing clarity on the nature and skill of change that is needed. The report also gave a sense of momentum behind the
Committee’s recommendations. Hon. Mpofu who seconded the report raised the bar as he delved into the core of the philosophy of the new dispensation in the Second Republic where His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Commander in Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces, Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa emphasised the need for genuine openness and freedom to information.
In his State of the Nation Address to Parliament on 1st October
2019, His Excellency said, “we cannot change the past but the future is in our hands”. Mr Speaker Sir, we are now looking into the future. We are saying where did we come from, where are we and where do we want to go.
In looking to the future, I cannot but go back in history and remind this august House that on 6th November 1960, Zimbabwe then Southern Rhodesia introduced television broadcasting becoming the first country in the region to do so. Despite this, we still have one television station yet our regional neighbours may have more than one television station, for example Zambia has 10 television stations. This means Zimbabwe was overtaken by many countries in Africa in terms of media development. So the new dispensation is saying let us move with speed to ensure that we catch up with the rest of the world.
Mr Speaker Sir, access to information is indeed a prerequisite for
Zimbabwe to occupy its rightful place in this era of the Fourth Industrial Revolution (FIR). The fourth industrial revolution will make a significant change in the way that we work. This is made possible by the emergence of digital systems, networked communication and large scale data analysis. That now is where the question comes in. You need to have access to information. There must be freedom of information and that is only possible if we ensure that we buttress all our efforts with availability of information to the general public. This increasing integration of technologies in business and production processes will make even self sustaining and more efficient. Information is power, information empowers more people nationally and even worldwide when it is availed freely. People can then become entrepreneurs; individuals can reach out to new customers if they are in business without incurring a huge huge investment cost in brick and mortar. In other words we are saying let us grow our economy, our country, production and the spirit of unity.
Let that message go loud and clear to each and every individual that in talking about freedom of information we are not saying let us abuse that privilege. Yes, it is a right, yes we must get it, but we must also look after it.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will go back in history. In the early 80s the late
Hon. John Oliver Manyarara, a retired judge of the Supreme Court of Zimbabwe, himself a former broadcaster, presented a paper in which he called on Zimbabwe to follow media trends practiced elsewhere in the world. Today, Mr. Speaker Sir, through the Government of His
Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Hon. Emmerson Mnangagwa and indeed, Mr. Speaker Sir, through this 9th Parliament, the late Manyarara’s wish is now being realised - freedom of information.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I stood up in order to add my name in supporting the repeal of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act so that the Government of Zimbabwe can give access to information as enshrined in Section 62 of our Constitution, through the enactment of the Freedom of Information Bill into law. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON.
MUTODI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18 December, 2019.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF
INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING
SERVICES (HON. MUTODI), the National Assembly adjourned at
Ten Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 10th December, 2019.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR THE LATE HON. VIMBAYI JAVA THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to inform the
Senate that all Hon. Senators are invited to the memorial service of the late Hon. Vimbayi Java to be held on Saturday, 14th December, 2019 at
No. 2 Lyndurst Lane, Strathaven, Harare, starting at 0900 hours.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion regarding the President’s Speech. I would like to start by thanking His Excellency because of his kind heartedness, because even before he started delivering his Speech, he asked us to stand up in memory of the late former President of this country, Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe. This cannot be done by anybody who is not considerate but it shows that he is a kind hearted man.
The next topic he touched on was agriculture and I remember that in this august House, we debated two motions, which we thought the Ministers responsible were going to come and respond, but unfortunately, they did not turn up. However, we did not lose heart because whatever we debate in this House; the President also listens to the debates. We talked about the importance of small grains and we would now change that name from small grains to traditional grains because we had said as a House that this should be ingrained in the people’s minds because these small grains used to sustain our forefathers and they did not suffer from hunger.
The current situation, the negative impact of the climate change has led to poor agricultural practices and we do not also receive enough rains, either we have little rains or we receive too much rains which come with severe storm and destruction in the process. This means that when the President was deliberating on this issue, he is somebody who is very considerate; he is a listening President.
At the same time, in this House during our debates, we also talked about teak borne diseases which are affecting our animal husbandry and we all had an input. It showed that it was important that cattle be taken to dip tanks but unfortunately there is not enough money to buy these chemicals or at times there is no water. In some instances, people are given wrong chemicals to dip the cattle and this has a negative impact on the cattle population of this country. We hope that enough chemicals; enough support for the dipping of our cattle will improve and we will have an increase in the number of cattle in the country. Cattle are a source of wealth amongst us as Africans. Again when we have well fed cattle, we pay lobola and even the mothers are given their quota of the lobola.
The President also talked about the Bill, which talks about the problems faced by the people, regarding health. When we look at it, people have deductions from their salaries by medical aid societies but when the members go to seek treatment, they are asked to pay shortfalls. We are hoping this regulatory authority is going to create an atmosphere whereby the beneficiaries of various medical aid societies are going to receive full treatment instead of just being given prescriptions for them to buy medication and also pay shortfalls.
Madam President, the President also talked about pensions. I am glad that as members of the Senate, we had debated this motion and we had shown that it is a pity that after working and you are supposed to rest after a long time of working and have a good life, it is not happening. It is unfortunate that people are retiring to poverty and the President had said there is going to be a Pension and Provident Fund Bill. I hope when that Bill has been introduced and get into this House, we are going to deal with it accordingly so that people who would have come to the end of their working life are going to have a happy life. The current situation is so sad because we have these elderly people who are supposed to rest at home, but they spend five days and nights at financial institutions five days and five nights at a financial institution and even when they are given their allocation it is not enough to take them back to their homes. It is all gobbled up by transport.
The President talked about $2.7 million which was allocated for the support of the Small to Medium Enterprises (SMEs). As we know the SMEs are the backbone of our industry in this country. When this fund is fully utilized, it is going to improve on the performances of the SMEs because at the moment if we look at the plight of SMEs, some of these SMEs have no proper shelter. There are no sheds and when it is raining they really have to scurry for cover under shift plastics or whatever they may use. The property which they are manufacturing is destroyed by the rains.
The President also talked about the acquisition of machinery to assist in the manufacturing of the SMEs because these SMEs will be supplied first and foremost with shelter to operate in and secondly, they will be given equipment to ease the way of doing their duties and this leads to the growth of the economy of the country.
The President talked about democracy in the country and we want to remove some of those environments which create fear amongst the citizens and at times you never know what is creating that fear because at times that is caused by the violence which occurs in the country, hence we need to have some reforms so that we can live in peace.
Zimbabwe is a peaceful country, Zimbabwe loves peace.
Madam President, the President also showed that he has his people at heart; he is a listening President because he promised that the results of the Mothlante Commission Report instituted to make an enquiry on creating peace in Zimbabwe; he promised to fully implement the recommendations so that there is peace and tranquility in Zimbabwe. We do not have to live in fear of other people or fear of violence. So we only hope that these reforms will be implemented fully so that we have peace and tranquility in Zimbabwe.
Madam President, the President also talked about people living with disabilities. We were told about the problems which are faced by people living with disability and the final result is that some of these people are really looked down upon. They are made to feel inferior. We noticed that in some of the buildings they cannot access these buildings.
One typical example is what happened here at the Parliament building. We had a Committee meeting on the 5th Floor and the lift was out of order. Consequently, the one Member who was supposed to be coming to that meeting failed to attend the meeting because they could not access the building since the lifts were out of order.
That is why we are saying in any new buildings, it should be made mandatory and compulsory that these buildings are friendly to people living with disability. They should have easy access so that they can participate fully in all the activities that need their presence, that need their participation because some of these people are marked absent not because of their own liking but because they cannot easily access the places in this building yet they are Members of Parliament who would have been elected by people to represent them.
I will round up my contribution by saying, the President alluded that he was not happy because the Bills which would have been brought to Parliament are not acted upon as they are supposed to be done. It means Members of Parliament are short changing the people they represent yet these Bills are meant to create peace, order and good governance of Zimbabwe according to the Constitution and above all, protecting the human rights. We are elected to represent the people.
Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. HUNGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11 December, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 45TH PLENARY
ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN
MAPUTO
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House takes note of the report of the Delegation to the 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, held at the
Joaquim Chissano International Conference Centre, Maputo, Mozambique from 15th to 25th July, 2019.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: I second.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I am moving a motion on the report of the 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held at the Joaquim Chissano International Conference Centre, Maputo,
Mozambique from 15th to 25th July, 2019. The theme was on ‘Climate change, mitigation and adaptation; the role of Parliament towards the implementation of the Paris Declaration and the Katowice Roadmap.’
Madam President, let me begin by outlining that due to other circumstances, this report is coming to the House belatedly but nevertheless will capture the most important activities that happened in the region. I will thus give the immediate key points on the report in accordance with Article 11 (10) of the SADC Parliamentary Forum which states that the Plenary Assembly shall meet for the transaction of business at the Headquarters of the Forum or in a Member State on a rotational basis.
The 45th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was convened in Mozambique, Maputo from 15th to 25th July 2019 under the theme ‘Climate change, mitigation and adaptation. The role of
Parliament towards the role of Parliaments towards implementing the Paris Declaration and the Katowice Roadmap. Thirteen (13) countries were presented at the plenary that included Angola, Botswana,
Democratic Republic of Congo, the Kingdom of Eswatini, Malawi, Mozambique, Lesotho, Namibia, Seychelles, Tanzania, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
Madam President, the delegation …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Ummm Hon. Member,
if I may ask that you increase your volume please. Those who are behind you would like to hear what you are saying.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President, I will try.
The delegation from Zimbabwe led by Hon. Adv. Jacob Francis Mudenda, Speaker of the National Assembly comprised of the following members and officers of Parliament as follows: - Hon. Sen. Tambudzani
Mohadi, a member of the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture, Natural Resources and Infrastructure; Hon. Goodluck Kwaramba, member of the Standing Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development and chairperson of the
Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus; Hon. Dexter Nduna, temporarily replaced the late Hon. Obedingwa Mguni who was also a member of the Standing Committee on Democratization, Governance and Human Rights until a substantive delegate is appointed; Hon. Anele Ndebele, member of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry,
Finance and Investment and also Hon. Basilia Majaya, member of the
Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes.
Also, we had member of staff attending this plenary Assembly.
We had Mr. Ndamuka Marimo …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order, sorry I
did not understand well on Hon. Majaya. Did you say that she is a member of the Central Committee?
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Alright, I will repeat.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Yes please.
HON. MOHADI: Hon. Basilia Majaya, member of the Standing
Committee on Human and Social Development and Special
Programmes…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: This is why I am
saying I think that you should be clear enough for the House to hear you. If I cannot hear you yet you are very close to me, what about those seated behind you?
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. The
following members of staff attended the plenary Assembly as support staff: - Mr. Ndamuka Marimo, Director in the Clerk’s Office; Mr. Frank
Mike Nyamahowa, Director in the Hon. Speaker’s Office; Mr. Cleophas Gwakwara, Principal External Relations Officer and Secretary to the delegation; Ms. Martha Mushandinga, Principal Executive Assistant; and Mr. Clive Zvimekria Mukushwa, Security Aide to the Speaker.
Madam President, the official opening ceremony of the 45th
Plenary Assembly took place on Sunday, 21st July, 2019 at Joachim
Chissano International Conference Centre (JCICC). The Plenary
Assembly expressed its profound appreciation to Hon. Veronica
Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo, the Speaker of the National Assembly of
Mozambique, the President of the Forum and the Parliament of Mozambique for graciously hosting the 45th Plenary Assembly Session having previously hosted the 44th Plenary Assembly at the same venue in December 2018.
Madam President, in delivering the keynote address, the guest-ofhonour and President of the host country, His Excellency the President
Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, advocated for the expeditious transformation of the
SADC Parliamentary Forum into a SADC Regional Parliament in response to current challenges including those related to regional integration.
Madam President, in His Excellency the President Nyusi’s view, the SADC Parliament should not limit its activities to political matters but also pay attention to economic and social issues including those related to the environment. President Nyusi reiterated the need to have a regional Parliament just as any other region in Africa.
Madam President, the Speaker of the National Assembly of
Mozambique, Hon. Veronica Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo, welcomed the delegates to the city of Acacia and re-emphasized the need to transform the forum into a Legislative Assembly noting that the issue had been on the agenda for a long time. Hon. Dlhovo committed herself to bring the transformation agenda into finality during her presidency.
Madam President, in a solidarity message delivered by the Hon.
Chief Fortune Charumbira, Fourth Vice President of the Pan African Parliament, he reminded the Plenary Assembly of the need to ensure the full participation of African people in the development of the continent and ensuring that there is full economic integration on the African continent.
The Hon. PAP Vice President applauded the Plenary Assembly for choosing a timely topic for deliberation particularly in the aftermath of Cyclone Idai.
Madam President, the symposium – “Climate change, mitigation and adaptation: The role of parliaments, towards the implementation of the Paris Declaration and the Katowice roadmap”. The symposium received a brief overview of the impact of the climate change in the SADC region. The region has a population of about 350 million people with 70% of its population living below the poverty datum line. Again, 70% of the regional populace relies on natural resources for their livelihood mainly on agriculture, fisheries and on forestry. The dependence on these natural resources rendered SADC countries susceptible to the impact of climate change and in particular food insecurity. The coastal States suffer from floods and the impact of cyclones while inland States face droughts and are also impacted upon by cyclones.
Madam President, the session was psyched on need to prepare itself for the emerging challenge of climate migration as people move across borders due to the vagaries of nature.
The Speaker of the National Assembly of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Mudenda made an impassioned plea to his peers for the political will to contrive strategic and concerted mitigatory solutions in order to avert further debilitating climatic environmental consequences.
Hon. Mudenda drew a road map to ensure that National Parliaments approve the Paris Global Climate Change Agreement in view of domesticating it through relevant municipal laws that may need to be crafted and/or reformed. This would require extreme cooperation with the respective SADC country executives who must continually craft robust climate change policies as the bedrock of attendant sound climate change laws.
Madam President furthermore, national Parliaments working with their respective Cabinets were urged to adopt the Katowice Rule Book as a tool for implementing the Paris Global Climate Change Agreement. This should be done in the context of promoting investment in renewable energy.
National Parliaments, through their relevant Portfolio Committees and in liaison with the appropriate line ministries that deal with the environment and climate change must prepare the Biennial
Transparency and National Inventory Reports due as from 2024.
Madam President, the SADC PF should encourage its member
Parliaments to ensure that scientifically grounded departments for Disaster Management are established in their countries as centers of mitigatory climatic change impacts. Ms. Augusta Maita, Director of the Institute for Disaster Management pledged to avail herself to the region to give expert advice on the need to address the challenges of climate change from a technical perspective.
RESOLUTIONS ON THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
REPORT
Pursuant to its mandate, the Executive Committee (EXCO) of the SADC Parliamentary Forum SADC PF) reported for adoption, issues pertaining to the Management of the Forum, the Transformation process and commended the Plenary Assembly for proposing the relevant and timely theme, “Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation: The Role of
Parliaments “Towards Implementing the Paris Declaration and the Katowice Roadmap.” The Plenary Assembly acknowledged that the theme could not have come at a more opportune time, particularly in the aftermath of Cyclone Idai, which left a trail of death and destruction in the region. Cyclone Idai had provided ample evidence of the reality of climate change and the urgent need to come up with concrete strategies to mitigate climate change and build resilience.
On a sad note, the Plenary Assembly, observed a minute of silence and paid tribute to the late Hon. Obedingwa Mguni who passed away on Tuesday 17th June 2019. The Plenary Assembly remembered him for his effervescence, incisive contributions and dedication to the Forum. Furthermore, the 45th Plenary Assembly observed a minute of silence in honour of the unfortunate victims of Cyclone Idai in Malawi,
Mozambique and Zimbabwe.
Amendments to the Administrative Rules and Regulations ofthe Forum on MiscellaneousMatters
The Plenary Assembly adopted a resolution to restrict the Education Allowance payable to Staff to one tertiary qualification per child over and above the age limit of 25 years, to prevent situations where the Forum funds postgraduate qualifications for employees’ children.
Consideration of the Guidelines to Strengthen the
Accountability and Oversight of theOffice of the Secretary-General
The Executive Committee adopted a resolution which will see the implementation of the Guidelines to strengthen the Office of the Secretary -General including annual assessments by the Executive
Committee under the direction of the President of the Forum.
Update on the invitation tendered to the Parliaments of the
Union of Comoros andMadagascar to join the SADC PF
The Plenary Assembly adopted a resolution for the Parliament of
Seychelles to physically visit the Parliaments of Comoros and Madagascar with a view to persuade them to join the SADC PF since they have not yet responded to the written invitations. The initiative is intended to concretise the Forum’s drive towards full regional integration and co-operation.
Update on Transformation of the Forum into a SADC
Regional Parliament
The Plenary Assembly expressed its gratitude to the President of the SADC PF, Hon. Veronica Nataniel Macamo Dlhovo, for taking the initiative to meet the incoming SADC Chairperson, the President of the
United Republic of Tanzania, His Excellency, Dr. John Joseph
Pombe Magufuli to elicit his support on the transformation agenda.
The SADC PF President had also taken the opportunity to address the thorny issue of the autonomy of the SADC Regional Parliament, by assuring His Excellency, President Magufuli that the Regional Parliament would be guided by the Summit in its mandate and would seek to complement rather than contradict the ideals and aspirations of the Summit.
Hon. Speaker Professor Katjavivi had, in turn, met with the former President of Tanzania and senior statesman, His Excellency, Benjamin Mukapa, on a different mission but took the opportunity to brief H.E. Mukapa, on the transformation agenda. Incidentally, H.E. Mukapa is scheduled to deliver a presentation at the 39th SADC Summit in August during which he promised to voice his support for the transformation agenda. The Plenary Assembly commended the initiative by Hon. Speaker Professor Katjavivi and agreed that the lobbying initiatives towards transformation should not be restricted to Heads of States alone, but should be extended to include opinion leaders and Senior Statesmen in the Region whose voice could be influential in mobilising support for transformation.
The Plenary Assembly resolved that the stratagem should include, but not be limited to the following: -
- The SADC PF President and the lobbying team must urgently meet with the outgoing SADC Chairperson, His Excellency, President Hage Geingob, before the onset of the 39th SADC Summit scheduled for August to elicit a reaffirmation of his support as one of the avowed champions of the transformation agenda and encourage him to mobilise support for transformation among other Heads of State.
- The lobbying team must identify and approach other potential champions prior to the 39th SADC Summit to assist in eliciting a concrete decision by the Summit on the transformation agenda, including but not limited to, the Presidents of Angola,
Mozambique, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
- The SADC PF President must, without delay, appeal to His Excellency President Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, to facilitate for the lobbying team to be allowed to address the Council of Ministers and the SADC Summit on the transformation agenda.
- Speaker Dlhovo and Hon. Speaker Professor Katjavivi should leverage on the impending bilateral visit to Mozambique
by His Excellency President Hage Geingob, to jointly brief their Heads of State on the status of the transformation agenda and appeal for their backing in mobilising support before and during the 39th SADC Summit.
- The lobbying team should urgently extend its advocacy efforts to the SADC Secretariat and sensitise them on the transformation agenda in order to dispel any misconceptions and negativity they might have towards transformation.
- Speakers must, without delay, seek the support of their respective Ministers of Foreign Affairs while the Clerks/
Secretaries General should engage Secretaries for Foreign Affairs on the transformation drive to garner their support prior to the 39th SADC Council of Ministers Meeting and Summit.
- The Forum Secretariat, with the assistance of Clerks/ Secretaries General of National Parliaments, must identify and engage a team of lawyers to assist in developing an indicative Protocol for transformation which resonates with the Forum’s thrust as a complementary organ to the Summit.
- The Forum Secretariat and Clerks/Secretaries General must engage the media in their respective countries to lobby for support for transformation of the Forum into a SADC Regional Parliament.
Adoption of the Oath and Affirmation of Adherence for SADC
PF Members of Parliament
The 44th Plenary Assembly adopted an Oath and Affirmation of adherence for SADC PF Members of Parliament, which was commissioned through research by the Secretariat into best practices in other regional and international Parliamentary organisations. It is envisaged that the Oath and Affirmation of Adherence will provide recourse for the Forum in the event that Members exhibit conduct that is likely to undermine the integrity of the Forum.
Engagement of Consultant to Develop Risk Management
Policy
Pursuant to the recommendations of an Organisational Assessment exercise conducted by KPMG (Zambia), the Plenary Assembly approved the Terms of Reference for the engagement of a Consultant to develop a Risk Management Policy for the Forum in line with international best practices.
Update on the Forthcoming SRHR, HIV & AIDS Governance
Project with Sweden
The Plenary Assembly welcomed the impending commencement of the SRHR, HIV and AIDS Governance Project following the signing of the Project Agreement in June 2019. The Project will cover all the 14 Member Parliaments and is expected to commence on 1st August 2019. The development of the Institutional Risk Management Policy flagged under the Organisational Assessment exercise is part of the requirements for the commencement of the SRHR, HIV and AIDS Governance
Project.
Improvement of Whistle blowing Policy of the Forum
The Plenary Assembly welcomed the development by the Secretariat of a whistle-blowing policy as part of the recommendations of the Organisational Assessment exercise. The development of a whistle-blowing policy resonates with the Forum’s strategic thrust towards enhancing transparency, accountability and upholding the values of honesty and integrity. The Plenary Assembly encouraged the Secretariat to continue exploring ways to improve the complaint system, including introducing a toll-free hotline and suggestion boxes.
TREASURER’S REPORT
The Plenary Assembly noted that Zimbabwe had fully paid its subscriptions up to 2020. This payment has assisted in raising
Zimbabwe’s standing in the regional body since the country is a critical player in most of the initiatives at the Forum.
MOTIONS ADOPTED DURING PLENARY ASSEMBLY
In tandem with its constitutive mandate, as the policy making and deliberative body of SADC PF, the 45th Plenary Assembly discussed and resolved on various issues of regional importance and concern.
Motion for the adoption of the Report of the Regional
Parliamentary Model Laws
Oversight Committee
The Plenary Assembly adopted the need to prioritise monitoring of the domestication of legal provisions contained in Model Laws developed by the Forum, in view of promoting harmonisation of regional legal norms on SRHR, gender equality and democratic elections across the SADC region. This will ensure the SADC citizenry as a whole, benefit from a standardised legal instruments implemented through sovereign parliamentary processes.
In the ensuing debate, the Plenary Assembly stressed the need to strengthen the monitoring exercise by the Committee to ensure that sound, accurate and reliable information is obtained on domestication of model laws.
The Plenary Assembly emphasised the need to find a lasting and sustainable solution to the funding of the Election Observation Missions, given the strategic role that such missions play in advancing democratisation in SADC Member States.
National Parliaments were encouraged to continue marshalling efforts for domestication of all SADC Model Laws, and for Members of Parliament to support gender mainstreaming by advocating for the domestication of the instruments and protocols relating to Gender, and by infusing gender parity on a 50:50 ratio in electoral systems through progressive reforms.
Motion and debate on the Report of the Joint Session of SADC
PF Standing Committeesin the SADC Region
The Standing Committees and the RWPC met ahead of the 45th Plenary Assembly Session to reflectively deliberate on various thematic issues of regional interest and concern. In this regard, the Plenary
Assembly adopted the following resolutions with regards to the report: -
Status of SADC’s Public Health System, Access to Medicine
and Public Health
- There is need to promote access to medicine by harnessing the creation of an alternative pharmaceutical plant in the region post 2033, which will greatly serve the objectives of the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) especially, Goal number 3 which aims at ensuring healthy lives and the promotion of the well-being of the people in the region.
- The SADC Region needs to create an enabling environment that will nurture research into the production capacity of the local and regional pharmaceutical industry in terms of generic essential medicines.
- Africa needs a regional centre of excellence that will promote, monitor and guide the production of diverse medicines and this should be supported by national and regional alignment of trade policies.
- A database and a databank of traditional medicines should be established and this should be complemented by a purposeful trade in pharmaceuticals within SADC.
Digital Economy
- On the digital economy, the Plenary Assembly noted the need to: -
- Ensure that people in the region have access to internet and the digital economy including those in the hinterland;
- Take measures that mitigate the high cost of internet to ensure that ordinary people realise the full benefits of the digital economy through affordable access to communication systems;
- Cyber security should play a role in the management and governance of the digital age.
- The Fourth (4th) industrial revolution has given rise to a number of services such as cloud, machine learning, drones, block chain and others. These provide enormous potential for legislators and policy makers to exploit the networks of the digital economy for the benefit of the public sector and their constituencies;
- It was noted that the on-going Huawei trade conflict between the United States of America and China is a potential disservice as it can reduce accessibility to cellphones and the internet and generally the participation in the digital economy;
- At a policy level, the digital economy may be advanced through the adoption of a Regional technical roadmap, regional model law and the post adoption popularisation and implementation;
- Laws against cyber-crime appear rather rushed and more driven by political motive than the need to regulate the sector and protect the various internet users. The region should play a facilitatory role with regards to the use of the internet; and
- There is need for a robust regional data protection framework to allow the movement of data across countries without exposing the identity and security of the users.
Motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development
The Plenary Assembly resolved as follows: -
- Parliaments should consider recruiting and placing Youth intern/volunteers at each National Parliament, to provide on-thejob training and workplace exposure to youth at national level, while sustaining initiatives and projects of SADC-PF YDP.
- SADC PF and Parliaments to develop a sustainability strategy to cater for youth development initiatives across all development
Programmes; and
- Parliaments must consider secondment of Youth Officers to support implementation activities beyond the contract of the current secondment by Parliament of Namibia.
Motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the
Standing Committee on Democratization, Governance and Human
Rights
The Plenary Assembly resolved as follows: -
- The Secretariat should write to all National Parliaments communicating the reputational risk that SADC PF was facing from not participating in Election Missions and therefore, appeal to the Speakers to give the matter favourable consideration.
- The Secretariat to facilitate for the Committee, through the Chairperson, to engage the Executive Committee and Speakers to brief them on the matter with a view to finding a collective solution that should see SADC PF deploying Election Observation Missions to the remaining four countries holding elections in 2019, namely Botswana (October), Mozambique (15th October), Namibia
(27th November) and Mauritius (December).
- There was need to ensure that Plenary Assembly decisions are implemented, including those on the deployment of
Parliamentarians to observe elections in Member States, as failure to implement Plenary resolutions could undermine the credibility of SADC PF in the eyes of stakeholders. Parliament of Zimbabwe should maintain its presence for activities such as the Plenary
Assembly where robust regional issues are debated.
- National Parliaments should be encouraged to prioritise SADC PF activities in the allocation of financial resources to the regional body as compared to International Parliamentary bodies.
- The Committee, through the Chairperson, will table a draft resolution to the 46th Plenary Assembly proposing the way forward on the funding of SADC PF election observation missions, taking into consideration consultations with the Executive Committee and
Speakers of National Parliaments.
Adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Humanand Social Development and Special Programmes
The Plenary Assembly resolved that:
The Secretariat continues to work with Sweden to finalise Phase 2 of the SRHR, HIV and AIDS Governance Project which will be implemented in 14 countries of the SADC region. The Forum reaffirmed its commitment to prioritise Sexual and Reproductive Health (SRH), as part of its human and social development priorities, especially given the known linkages between SRH and the transmission of HIV which still notoriously influences the SADC region;
Furthermore, National Parliaments must continue to work together to share experiences and cross-learn on Sexual Reproductive and Human and Development issues, under the auspices of the Forum, and additionally continue holding Governments to account on their SRH commitments.
Motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the
Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and
Infrastructure (TIFI)
The Plenary Assembly acknowledged the devastating effects of
Illicit Financial Flows (IFFs) and Sovereign Debt on the development of Southern Africa and Africa and stressed the need to address these challenges head on.
SADC countries were encouraged to urgently address the debt crisis which is re-emerging in the region. Whilst those facing debt distress should devise strategies to address this undesirable state, the rest of the region should not be complacent. Sovereign Debt is inadvertently resulting in countries mortgaging the future generations.
The complex issues of Sovereign Debt required all the different stakeholders to work together. Parliament, civil society and the media are important players and should join forces in addressing IFFs and Sovereign Debt.
Motion and Debate for the Adoption of the Report of the
Regional Women’s Parliamentary Caucus
The Plenary Assembly resolved as follows: -
- SADC Member States must domesticate global, regional and sub-regional instruments that seek to strengthen the rights of women and girls.
- SADC-PF should support efforts that seek to promote gender mainstreaming and gender responsive budgeting across the SADC-PF region.
- The RWPC should continue to coordinate with stakeholders, especially Civil Society Organisations, to develop a robust multi-stakeholder partnership framework that can act holistically to promote gender equality, SRH and women empowerment.
- SADC-PF should support RWPC efforts that seek to promote 50 percent gender parity in political governance.
- The RWPC, with the coordination of the Secretariat, should continue to liaise with all institutional organs of the Forum and address cross-cutting issues relating to women which transcends different thematic areas.
- SADC-PF should strengthen efforts and initiatives that seek to work with men as development partners, for example, the
HeforShe campaign.
Motion and Debate for the Adoption of the Report of the Food,
Agriculture Committee
(FANR)
The Plenary Assembly noted the devastation on the 14th and 15th of March 2019, caused by Cyclone Idai as it made a landfall near Beira city, and in parts of Eastern Zimbabwe and Malawi which led to catastrophic destruction of infrastructure, property and livelihoods. Usually, cyclones form in the Central Indian Ocean – giving sufficient time for affected countries to prepare to reduce a disaster. On the contrary, Idai started off deceptively weak and then grew incrementally to strike a big blow on the three affected countries.
Climate change should be linked to issues of poverty, equity, justice, politics and economics. Both politicians and the ordinary people should come up with mitigatory strategies and building resilience.
Environmental pollution as a result of waste mismanagement including chemicals should be discouraged. Pollution waste, unfortunately, ends up in drainage systems and results in blockages and contamination of water and the environment. Parliaments should enact legislation that imposes deterrent sentences on such would-be polluters.
Climate change, as observed from changed rainfall patterns and other environmental phenomenon, is a reality and not mere theory. It is, therefore, important to give priority to crops like cassava and sorghum which are drought resistant and can survive short and erratic rainfall patterns.
There is a need to resuscitate and appreciate indigenous knowledge systems about the environment and the weather in particular as coastal communities used to anticipate cyclones and other climatic conditions and put the necessary precautions in place.
Cyclones are an environmental phenomenon and a reality of climate change and have both negative and positive consequences. Human beings, therefore, have no choice but to embrace the reality of climate change and in particular the phenomenon of cyclones and put in place the necessary mitigatory measures to build resilience.
Regional and National disaster management and coordination through the strengthening of early warning systems and pooling of resources is the best way to deal with the effects of climate change.
SADC Governments must, as a matter of priority, individually and collectively provide funding for disaster management initiatives. SADC Parliaments should exercise oversight over these initiatives and assess their disaster preparedness.
DEBATES ON MOTIONS BY MEMBER PARLIAMENTS
Motion on Beneficiation of the Extractive Sector in the SADC region
The Plenary Assembly noted that the African continent is endowed with mineral resources which are capable of fully sustaining the livelihoods of its citizenry.
The meeting recalled that the colonial contact of Africa with the
West was based on and triggered by the mineral wealth of Africa.
The Plenary Assembly urged Member States to prioritise beneficiation and value addition to the region's mineral resources in order to ensure maximisation of their value, thereby enhancing
Governments’ capacity to mobilise revenue for delivery of public services.
Motion on the Promotion of Renewable Energy in the SADC
region
Plenary Assembly resolved to: -
Urge SADC Governments to urgently diversify from the conventional sources of energy to the more abundant renewable and other non-conventional sources such as solar, wind, gas and minihydros;
- Implore SADC to prioritise the development of a regional mechanism to invest in the development of Inga Dam Phase Two which has the potential to make the region and Africa as a whole energy self-sufficient;
- Encourage SADC countries to invest in power plants such as the Kafue Gorge Hydropower Station in Zambia, the proposed Batoka Gorge Hydroelectric Power Station, which is a 1,600 megawatts hydroelectric power station, planned to be on the Zambezi River across the border between Zambia and Zimbabwe. This initiative, among others will enhance the capacity of Member States to export and import electricity from each other.
- Recommend increased and innovative investment in the region’s energy infrastructure as most of the power plants were commissioned in the 1960s and 1970s and with no significant investment made in recent years, by creating an enabling environment for international investment and public private partnerships.
- Suggest the application of the principles of cost reflective electricity tariffs concurrent with pro-poor measures to ensure sustainability of the sector and access by the poor.
- Urged National Governments to provide targeted funding for rural and peri-urban electrification initiatives in order to ensure access to electricity by the majority in the hinterland; and, Encouraged SADC Member Parliaments, in particular the Parliamentary Committees on Energy, to ensure effective oversight on the energy sector, the engagement of all role players and the strategic utilisation of legislative and budgetary measures to advance the sector, in particular the renewable energy.
Motion on the Need for a Lasting Solution Regarding Funding for
SADC PF electionObservation Missions
The Plenary Assembly urged the Executive Committee to engage
Speakers of Member Parliaments and the Chairperson of the Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights Standing Committee with a view to finding a collective and lasting solution that should see SADC PF deploying Election Observation Missions to the remaining four countries holding elections in 2019, namely Botswana (October),
Mozambique (15th October), Namibia (27th November) and Mauritius
(December), (This resolution is read with the Resolutions under Item
9.0).
Motion on the Negative Effects of Plastic on the Environment
The Plenary Assembly endorsed the international campaign
"PRODUCE, USE AND RE-USE" as opposed to "PRODUCE, USE AND DISPOSE" and urged all stakeholders nationally and regionally, including industry and business to embrace this approach. The meeting prompted National Governments and other stakeholders to initiate and sustain national and community campaigns to raise awareness about the devastating effects of plastic on the environment and to create incentives which will promote positive action in this regard.
Member Parliaments and their Executive arms were encouraged to urgently take legislative measures to regulate and eliminate plastic usage in order to protect the environment and to ensure effective implementation of such legislation and monitoring of the same.
Member States were encouraged to fully support SADC’s environmental management and sustainable development objectives through the promotion of pollution control, waste management and environmental education.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Recommendation | Action | Timeline |
Transformation of SADC PF into a Regional Parliament. | -The Hon. Speaker to lead the local mobilisation of support for the Transformation agenda.
-Lobbying process with the Executive to continue formally and informally.
|
October 2019
|
Resolution on the Paris Global
Climate Change Agreement and Katowice Roadmap with a in view to domesticate and make follow-up action through relevant municipal laws |
-Line Ministry to meet with
Portfolio Committee on Lands, Agriculture, Climate and Water and Rural Resettlement to report on preparations of the Biennial Transparency and National Inventory Reports due as from 2024. - Parliament of Zimbabwe to play its oversight role by ensuring that the Civil Protection Unit of Zimbabwe is scientifically |
October 2019 |
grounded for Disaster
Management |
||
Harnessing the full benefits of the digital economy and mitigating the harmful effects of Cyber -crime | -The Committee to include in its work plan the role of the Fourth (4th) industrial revolution and its attendant benefits. The Ministry of Science and Technology to unpack the related benefits such as cloud computing, machine learning, drones, block chain and others.
-The Committee on ICT, Postal and Courier Services to conduct oversight on progress in the establishment of internet services in rural areas
|
October 2019
January 2020
|
Parliament to domesticate global, regional and subregional instruments that seek to strengthen the rights of women and girls.
The Institution to strengthen synergies with men in mainstreaming gender issues.
|
-The ZWPC to strengthen efforts and initiatives that seek to work with men as partners on issues related to Gender, e.g. the HeforShe campaign.
|
October 2019 |
Portfolio Committees to take active interest in Climate Change issues as they relate to poverty, equity, justice, humanitarian, politics and economics.
|
-Liaison with the Ministry of Energy and Power Development for the development of clean methods of energy production.
|
October 2019 |
Beneficiation of the extractive sector | -The Mines and Mining
Development Ministry to be engaged to prioritise beneficiation and value |
October 2019 |
addition to the country’s mineral resources, including lithium, chrome ore, gold in order to ensure maximisation of their value, thereby enhancing
Government’s ‘capacity to mobilise revenue for delivery of public services. |
||
Ban on the Use of Plastic in the country | -Parliament of Zimbabwe, through the Portfolio Committee on Environment, to urgently undertake legislative measures to regulate and eliminate plastic usage in order to protect the environment and to ensure effective implementation of such legislation and monitoring of the same.
|
October 2019 |
Enhancement of Election
Observation Missions |
-The Plenary Assembly urged the
Executive Committee to engage Speakers of Member Parliaments and the Chairperson of the Democratisation Governance and Human Rights Standing Committee with a view to finding a collective and lasting solution that should see SADC PF deploying Election Observation Missions to the remaining four countries holding elections in 2019, namely Botswana (October), Mozambique (15th October), Namibia (27th November) and Mauritius (December) |
Ongoing |
Harnessing the importance of
Indigenous Medicinal Knowledge Systems |
-Promotion, monitoring and guidance on the production of diverse medicines which should be supported by national and regional alignment of trade policies. The oversight role to be championed by the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Welfare.
|
September
2019 |
CONCLUSION
The Plenary Assembly appreciated the excellent hosting arrangements made by the National Assembly of Mozambique noting that the country hosted the 44th Plenary Assembly and is still recovering from the effects of Cyclone Idai and Cyclone Kenneth. Parliament of
Zimbabwe stands to benefit by adopting resolutions of the 45th Plenary Assembly as they summarise the collective concerns of citizens in the region.
The delegation led by Hon. Speaker Advocate Jacob Francis.
Mudenda, must be commended for raising the country’s flag high by participating actively and making incisive contributions during deliberations on reports and motions before the Plenary Assembly. The President of the SADC PF, Hon. Speaker Dlhovo, and the SADC PF Secretariat, through the Secretary General, Ms Boemo Sekgoma, acknowledged the high standard of debate set by the Zimbabwean delegates which fostered lively interface and positive interaction during the Plenary Assembly.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. President. I will deal with the resolutions of the Executive Committee Report.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: If you can
just highlight the main issues as the report is going to be distributed to the Hon. Senators. You may proceed.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: The highlights for the key points on the recommendations were amendments to the administrative rules and regulations of the forum on miscellaneous matters. There was also a resolution of consideration of guidelines to strengthen the accountability and oversight of the office of the Secretary General, update on the invitation tendered to the Parliament of the Union of Comoros and Madagascar to join the SADC PF and transformation of the forum into a
SADC Regional Parliament.
The Plenary Assembly resolved that the strengthened should include but not be limited to the following:
- SADC PF President and the lobbying team must urgently meet with on-going SADC PF Chairperson.
- Adoption of the affirmation of adherence to the SADC PF Members of Parliament.
- Engagement of the consultant to develop risk management policy.
In addition to that, there was a resolution on the update of the forth coming SRHR/HIV and AIDS governance project with Sweden. There was also improvement of the whistle blowing policy on the forum. There are a number of resolutions which are on this paper but let me also read the last but one - status of the SADC public health system, access to medicine and public health. Finally, there was a resolution on motion and debate for the adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Gender Quality, Women Advancement and Youth Development. I think
I have to put a full stop Mr. President. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President. May I please
be given an opportunity to make my contribution in Shona on this motion raised by Hon. Mohadi and seconded by Hon. Sen. Khupe regarding the climate change in the world. I am going to interpret what climate change will mean to the people. We are now being encouraged to grow small grains because they quickly mature even if we have very little rains. This is the result of the climate change. What happens is, when we go back to our farming areas we start growing those small grains because we will be following what is recommended in this time of climate change.
There are some things which I think we should create awareness on and this is what I am going to dwell on. I researched on some of these things and some of them I know. I remember reading some report of FAWE which was done in 1964. The explanation was - when we are talking of climate change, there are two kinds of lives. When we have two people who are born on the same day and one person is fed on small grains like millet, wheat and soghurm and all those small grains - the other person is going to be fed on one type and that is surviving on maize meal because it is prepared using machines. What will be observed on these two people is that the person who will be eating small grains which will be planted in the soil and as it grows up to be a plant, there are sort of chemicals and other nutrients that get into the grain...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Hon.
Sen., stick to the motion.
*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Okay Mr. President. This person who
will be feeding on maize – it has a different set up. There are some chemicals and nutrients which are wanted such as iron. If we lack iron in our bodies, we will not have a healthy life and that means our food should include nutrients such as iron. If you lack iron, you may not live up to 83 years of age. If you are eating these traditional foods, they give you a long life because of the way the small grains are grown and prepared. That is why I have managed to live so long because when we talk of the way this mealie-meal was prepared, there was a stone and a grinding stone.
You will notice that when this meal was prepared, the way that stone was rolling over the big stone there is now covertures; it is indented because that stone is worked out. When that stone is worn out we are also getting some nutrients from that stone such as iron. Mr. President, I am a teacher by profession and whenever I am making a discussion, I look at the things which may be of some benefit to us so that I contribute to my fellow Members. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. HUNGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th December, 2019.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
THE SENATE
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have
received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the following:
- All Statutory Instruments published in the Gazette during the month of November 2019.
- The Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Amendment
Bill [H. B. 4 B, 2019].
CONSIDERATION STAGE
MONEY LAUNDERING AND PROCEEDS OF CRIME
AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 4 B, 2019]
Amendments to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
MONEY LAUNDERING AND PROCEEDS OF CRIME
AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 4 B, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE PAN-AFRICAN
PARLIAMENT HIGH LEVEL SUMMIT ON HIV AND HEALTH
FINANCING IN AFRICA
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the Pan-African Parliament High Level Summit on HIV and Health Financing in Africa.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. FEMAI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th December, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND
DEVELOPMENT ON THE PLIGHT OF PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES AND CHALLENGES FACED BY WOMEN AND
GIRLS WITH DISABILITIES IN ZIMBABWE
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the plight of people with disabilities in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Ncube who is the Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development. The Committee moved around the country on a fact finding mission on problems faced by women and girls living with disabilities. I thank you Hon. Sen. Ncube for leading such a delegation.
It is quite painful because as human beings, we have our own ways of living which we are supposed to be following. We notice that despite the fact that disability affects both men and women, women are the ones who suffer more. I am full of praise for the Committee for undertaking such a task of moving around the country on fact finding. I remember clearly when this motion was moved, I had watched a ZTV programme where a woman living with disability was testifying her experiences in life. I remember very well that she said when she wants to board a commuter omnibus to town; the taxi operators would tell her that they do not have space because what they think of is the time they will take in accommodating her and her wheel chair would be a waste of time. That wheel chair would also occupy space which should be occupied by another passenger.
At times these people living with disability just like any other illegal vendor in town have to run when chased away from the pavements by law enforcement agents. They even grab some of the wares they will be selling or even abuse their wheel chairs. This really touches me. I know that people living with disability need to have that special care.
People with disability share toilets with able-bodied people. When I look at the problems that they face when they get into the toilets, I cry for mercy from the God above. As a country, we need to be respectful. We need to craft laws which are aimed at easing the burden of people living with disability. Let us not make them feel inferior – they should feel equal to everybody else. I am also calling upon the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that when he is crafting his budget he should also put more money or emphasis on easing the plight of people living with a disability. I am begging for the powers that be whenever there is any construction project which is going on like constructing a school, it should be able to accommodate easy access for people living with disabilities. Some of these are hard of hearing, some of them have problems in walking, some of them cannot talk and hence the Minister of Finance and Economic Development should put more money for easing the life of its people living with disabilities.
I am also calling upon the Minister to put some funds aside which are aimed at supporting the families of these people living with disability and have children moving around begging for money. The streets are dangerous with both cars and people as they can be abused. Also these people living with disabilities sit along street corners and beg for money which I think is not supposed to be like that. Hon. Ncube, thank you very much for that initiative which you took on a fact finding mission. At times people living with disability have problems in that they cannot be able to go through normal life like what people who are able bodied are able to do.
I will look at people who are visually impaired. If you are a boy you want to see the features of the woman you are marrying and if you are a lady, also you want to look at the physical features of the man you are supposed to marry, but you cannot do so because you are visually impaired. Therefore Hon. Ncube thank you very much for the initiative you took for taking care of people living with disabilities.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF GOROMONZI CHIKWAKA: Thank you
Mr. President. I am very grateful for being given this opportunity to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon. Ncube and seconded and debated by other Members of Parliament. This is quite a sympathetic and sad story of these people living with disability.
In my culture we say when somebody is in problems they cry out for assistance because those people can support themselves and are able to go wherever they want. I am a very big man physically and I used to be proud of who I am. I had that feeling of superiority complex but Hon. President, I have now come to a point whereby I am now disabled despite being an able bodied person. What happened was I was involved in an accident and I had a permanent injury to my hand. Therefore when I am talking to my fellow Parliamentarians let us not look at a case as saying it is them who are disabled, it will never happen to me, but disability can come at any time when you are least expecting, just like what I have said. I cannot even handle a cell phone to communicate because of my disability.
I was a member of that committee which went on a fact finding mission on people living with disabilities and I am saying as the people of Zimbabwe, it is our obligation to take care of people living with disabilities. The problem we face is that some of the families are ashamed of their members who are living with disabilities and they hide them from the public glare. At times even us, other people, we are not able to assist these people in their times of problems. I say that because when you look at some of the building construction projects which you undertake, people live upstairs with no access for people living with disabilities. My worry is supposed you have constructed your house with bedrooms in the upper floors and when you are either aged or you become disabled how are you going to access those rooms, how are you going to access the facilities? It only shows that we are people who are very short sighted. That is why I am calling upon people to take into account and think of the people who are living with disabilities.
The Bible encourages men to take care of women because they need our support, but what we have noticed is that some of the able bodied men approach these women living with disabilities and they impregnate them. When they impregnate them, they deny paternity and they do not even take care of those children, yet what happens when that child has been taken to school and they are educated, we find that at times the Government neglected the mother.
At times that child that would have resulted from the pregnancy that would have been denied by the responsible man, the Government does not even take care of the children of these people living with disability or women who were abused and yet it is of prime importance that as Government, we should create a fund or a system where we take care of children of parents who are living with disability so that these children can live a better life and take care of their parents.
We have also noticed that we discriminate people living with disabilities, especially in the distribution of goods for use either in farming or even machinery we discriminate against them. It is my call that these people should be assisted so that they can live a blessed life. Let us not make them feel inferior, but they should feel superior because of the way they will be helped by Government.
I am so glad because Government has taken another step further to help people including even those living with disabilities through the free distribution of sanitary pads. We have noticed those living with disabilities need assistance. When this disabled child goes on her monthly periods, she wants to move out of the class and go to ablution blocks to go and prepare herself, but the problem is some of them are inaccessible. Some of these Blair toilets do not have proper doors and when these people get into those places, they need that privacy so that they clean themselves up and then go back to the class and join others without feeling ashamed of having spoiled themselves because of poor ablution blocks at schools.
Therefore I am calling upon Government to craft a law which makes it mandatory for these ablution blocks, especially in rural areas, to be properly crafted and be user friendly for people living with disabilities. This is my small contribution on the welfare of people living with a disability.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for this opportunity to add my voice. I want to thank Hon. Ncube and her Committee for doing such a great job by going around the country to assess and really look at the situation and the plight that is being faced by people with disabilities in this country.
Madam President, for sure we have a lot of laws on disability and our Constitution is clear that they have rights but at this moment in time,
Zimbabwe is crying and bleeding - a lot of people are crying. As
Government, we seem to have forgotten our disabled people.
Our disabled people are suffering at this moment in time; especially children – you can only imagine and the women. I have seen them on the streets and a lot has been said. I am sure that all of us have seen them. Most of these people can actually look after themselves if they are given opportunities – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Madam President, our culture really needs to change because in most cases people with disabilities are as if they are cursed, because some families hide their children in the houses and they do not want to show them to the world. In that regard, those children will suffer in there and if there is hunger, they will be suffering in there and the communities will not take heed of these children. So, as Government, we actually need to go down as well to the communities and educate our people.
Madam President, there is a lot that needs to be done. I heard an Hon. Member bemoaning a budget to be set aside – there is a lot that needs to be done. Unfortunately, when I looked at the welfare side of things in terms of the budget – it is really not enough. It looks like even in 2020 they are still going to be suffering. I think that as Senate we should agree that next year we should fight very hard – in unison for our people who live with disability to get a portion. The welfare side should get enough budgetary allocation so that they can be on the lookout for our people to educate them.
I just want to highlight a few issues - we may think at this moment in time, because the way that Zimbabwe is acting is as if we feel that possibly they have no rights. You are aware that even when buildings are being constructed there should be a law to say, ‘If you are constructing a big building for business, make sure that you are catering for disability, because they are everywhere’. You also heard that they are even having challenges just to board a kombi with their wheelchair – that is very painful, just a simple action that you can do. We can easily board kombis but they cannot. So, I just want to highlight a few of these rights and I know that Zimbabwe is a signatory to the African Protocol on Persons with Disability and Inclusion in Education – we are a signatory.
The other problem that I see is that we have signed as a country, so many protocols but we do not domesticate them – that is where the problem is. The moment that a country signs a protocol – we must ratify it and then domesticate it. The moment we do that, it then becomes a law. So, I know that we are a signatory to this one – African Protocol on Persons with Disabilities and Inclusion in Education. The African Protocol on Persons with Disabilities recognizes disability rights. What does it say? Every person with disability has a right to education but our children are at the robots begging, walking around with their blind mothers and no one is worried as to what is happening. It is actually a community – you know, I always pass through near the Crown Plaza Hotel. Have you noticed that it is now like a community? It is like another village with thousands of people out there. The Government has to self- introspect and see what we are doing about our children and women. I have seen little girls begging and you can imagine a 12 year old begging. What about during the night when it is 1900 hrs or 2000 hours in the evening? These girls are being abused.
State parties shall ensure, to persons with disabilities, the right to education on all equal basis with others, State parties shall take reasonable, appropriate and effective measures to ensure that inclusive quality education and skills training for persons with disabilities is realised fully. Do we have them in these educational institutions? We have to look at ourselves as Government – what are we doing? Are we giving our children with disabilities this opportunity? Government may look at this as a cost but the moment you educate these people then it does not become a cost to Government because they can then look after themselves - it is not a cost. Yes, as we start initially to put this into practice because we signed into it, then they can improve themselves and help in developing the nation. Ensuring that person with disabilities are able to access general tertiary education, vocational training, adult education and lifelong learning without discrimination and on equal basis with others including ensuring the literacy of persons with disabilities. In this regard, I am sorry to say we have not achieved this as a country and we really need to look at it closely.
Ensuring reasonable accommodation of the individual requirement is provided and that persons with disabilities receive the support required to facilitate their effective education; providing reasonable progressive and effective individualised support measures and environments that maximize academic and social development, consistence with the goal of inclusion.
Ensuring appropriate schools are available to persons with disabilities who may prefer to learn in particular environment. Ensuring that persons with disabilities learn life and social...
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN.
MOHADI): Order Hon. Senator, you seem to be reading, I thought it is a debate, just read the points and debate.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you very much Madam President,
I am actually highlighting their rights and the protocol that we are a signatory to. This is what I am referring to, if you can allow me Madam
President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Okay go
ahead.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: But you must
not take long reading; if you highlight, you just highlight then debate.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you very much Madam President,
you are also a member of the Standing Rules and Orders Committee, I think we actually made a resolution that everyone is now allowed to read but I hear you, thank you.
Ensuring that persons with disabilities learn life and social development skills to facilitate their full and equal participation in education and as members of the community; ensuring that multidisciplinary assessments are undertaken to determine appropriate reasonable accommodation and support measures for learners with disability. Early intervention, regular assessment and certification of learners are undertaken regardless of their disability. Ensuring educational institutions are equipped with teaching aids, materials and equipment to support the education of students with disabilities and their specific needs.
Training education professionals including persons with disabilities on how to educate and interact with children with specific learning needs and facilitating respect, recognition, promotion preservation and development of fine languages.
Madam President, I think as a country, if we domestic this protocol, we will never have a problem and our people that live with disability are going to actually help this nation develop and live better life. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you Madam President for giving me
the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion. I am very grateful to this Committee which is chaired by Hon. Ncube because they undertook this great task on a fact finding on the welfare of people living with disability, I want to thank them very much.
Madam President, let me start by saying this, as Hon Senators, when we are moving around this country we are proud being called Hon.
Member and even if you are introducing yourself to the people, you tell them that I am an Hon. Member. An honourable member is somebody who is very trustworthy and somebody who lives an honest life and therefore, I am asking amongst us Hon. Senators in this Senate. Is there anyone of us who has a friend who is living with disability? Is there anyone who can raise their hand and say they have a friend living with disability? I think this is where we must start from. As Hon. Senators, if we do not have friends living with disability, what do we expect from the ordinary people? I hope that in this report we should have received something that tells us that each of the members who visited those homes should have created friendship with them because people living with disability are lonely people. They need people who keep them company but just like everybody else we discriminate against them and we look for friends who are able bodied.
Even in the homes where we come from, most of us will share their social life – just like drinking beer they will brag about beer and yet we know that at times beer can be a problem and can cause ill health. At the same time, some will be bragging that they are heavy smokers but we know smoking has its disadvantages. At home they will never talk about their children who are disabled who they have put in closets in their homes so that they are not seen by members of the public.
This Committee has dedicated its time to visiting people living with disability because we know in most of the homes, we are hiding people living with disability and when they do it, they took it as if it is protective custody, as if, if this person goes to bask in the sun, they may melt or die which is wrong.
Therefore, I am making the following recommendations. Government and other non-governmental organisation such as pressure groups should really work hard in advocating to the Government that it takes proper measures for carrying on people living with disability especially in areas that include shelter, food, transport and anything which is needed by people living with disability. We are calling upon Government to register all people living with disability from birth so that they take 100% care of these people. People who are aged are getting some benefits. When they go to the banks, shops et ceterea, they are given preference. The same welfare status should be extended to people living with disability, that is their right which they must enjoy.
Women during pregnancy will never know whether they are carrying a disabled child or not but when they give birth to disabled children, they are the ones who will take care of these children. I am calling upon women that before they cry out for their rights as women they should start by calling for the welfare of people living with disability. Before they form a group on women’s rights, they should form a group aimed at taking care of people living with disability.
I think if these women lead, there will be progress. At the moment women are talking of 50:50 representation in all areas of life and yet they should be talking of 50:50 for people living with disability. I think in that way, I will understand and support them. I am begging women Members of Parliament to think of the welfare of the children living with disability whom you natured and cared for nine months. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President, I am
thankful for the great job done by this Committee and I am also grateful for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion. Yes, indeed we moved around on this fact finding mission and we saw this problem. Yes, the previous speaker has talked about 50:50 representation for women. We know the home is made up of men and women we also had the experience of women when we talked about this disability, women complained that when they gave birth to a child with disability, the husband ran away. There were a lot of testimonies of men disserting families because they disowned children born with disabilities and claim that in their generation, in their family tree, there is nobody who ever lived with disability therefore, the disabled child is a woman’s problem.
When debating this Bill, let us make contributions that will support people living with disability so that we may help them because they face lots of problems. I noticed that some of these people are also very intelligent like people who communicate in sign language. The problem they face is that when they fall sick and visit the health institutions, especially those people who communicate in sign language, they have problems because there will be nobody who is able to communicate with them in sign language.
It is also sad that when they are sexually abused or raped and they report at police stations, the police do not have people who are able to communicate in sign language. Since they have problems in expressing themselves, this affects the resolution of rape cases. We are the people who represent these people and therefore should craft laws which are aimed at bringing peace, order and good governance in the country.
I am also calling upon this House to craft a law which will criminalise deserting a family because of the birth of a disabled child, this is especially amongst men. It is also noticed that when a woman gives birth to a child with albinism, the father deserts the family and the claim is similar that their ancestry does not have such a condition of albinism and he runs away from his home. Let us craft a law which will make it a punishable offence with a mandatory heavy sentence for anybody who deserts a family. I am also calling upon us to craft a law that will allow for a quota system when allocating housing stands for people living with disabilities. We want them to benefit so that they can live a normal life like what we are doing because we are all God’s creation and we need to live a happy life. I thank you.
HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th December, 2019.
MOTION
REMOVAL OF ILLEGAL SANCTIONS IMPOSED ON ZIMBABWE
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the unconditional and immediate removal of the illegal economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MBOWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th December, 2019.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON. SEN. SHOKO, the Senate adjourned at Seventeen Minutes Past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday 4th December, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to
inform the Senate that I have received the Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Amendment Bill [H. B. 4, 2019] from the National Assembly.
SECOND READING
ZIMBABWE INVESTMENT DEVELOPMENT AGENCY BILL [H.
- 2A, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LGEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President,
Hon. Senators, the enactment of this measure by yourself will mark an important milestone in the road towards making our country a middleincome country. It is crucial to wealth creation, job creation and to individual and social empowerment.
The Bill combines the mandates of three existing pieces of legislation that deal with investment, namely the Zimbabwe Investment Authority Act, the Special Zones Act and the Joint Ventures Act. At the apex of the new Zimbabwe Investment and Development Agency, as will be called, will be the Chief Executive Officer, appointed by His Excellency the President himself in the first instance (or, in the future, the Minister or Vice President administering the Act). The CEO will be assisted by an Advisory Board of ZIDA, and will ultimately be accountable to Parliament through his or her annual reports.
Let me briefly remind you of the mandates of the individual Acts absorbed by this Bill. The Zimbabwe Investment Authority was responsible for issuing licences to foreign and domestic investors and smoothing the way for the commencement of the licensees’ operations. The Special Economic Zones Act establishes SEZs wherein investors primarily involved in the export trade enjoyed certain privileges, such as exemption from ordinary customs tariffs. The Joint Venture Act was concerned with the exploitation by foreign and domestic investors of State –owned resources, such as land, contracts for Government utilities in the power, transport and water resource field, and the like. All three of these endeavours will now come under the domain of ZIDA, so that policy overlaps and turf wars in the important field of investment will be a thing of the past.
Important additional features of the Bill deserve mention. I single out in particular the One- Stop Investment Service Centre, where delegates from all Government agencies and ministries involved with investment in one way or another are gathered under one roof to assist potential investors with their queries, without having to pass them from pillar to post. The Bill also provides important statutory guarantees against discrimination between foreign and domestic investors, and pledges of fair treatment to all investors and against arbitrary expropriation and taxation. Holders of investment licences will be accorded certain privileges, such as priority in the consideration of any secondary licences or permits required to secure their investments.
Important prospects are extended to investors whose countries have Bilateral Investment Treaties with us. In particular, such investors may, under certain conditions, have their disputes adjudicated in an international or bi-national forum.
Mr. President, Hon. Senators, the heading of the provision of this Bill speak for themselves, and I urge you to peruse them to see what a generous piece of legislation this is to our investors, eagerly awaited by them and endorsed by international bodies such as the World Bank. In short, I urge you to support and pass this law wholeheartedly. I thank you.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. President. I want to understand from the Minister, when I perused the document here l saw a list of organisations. I am looking at Clause 5 and I wanted to ask the Minister to explain whether we did not have something called
Zimbabwe Investment Centre? Why is it not included here? What is the difference between this which we are now formulating and the Zimbabwe Investment Centre? I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My question is on the issue of the structure of this very organisation and in particular, the reason why we have a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and an advisory board instead of a board and a CEO. History has it in many places that when we have a
CEO who has an advisory board, he becomes a law to himself or herself. When we have a board, it becomes the moderator of the organisation and ensures that appropriate corporate governance is actually upheld. I would like to understand more about that particular structure, especially if you look at what we have already at the Reserve Bank and some of the issues people raise about the Governor being the chairperson of the very organisation. It creates a conflict and a very messy corporate governance situation. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE: Thank you Mr.
President. I want to thank the Hon. Members for the debate. Mr.
President, in my speech I alluded that this Bill is now repealing the Zimbabwe Investment Authority and the Special Economic Zones. We used to have what he was referring to, the Zimbabwe Investment Centre which was replaced by the Zimbabwe Investment Authority and now we are going to replace this with ZIDA. So, there is no need to mention that organisation because it is the one that we are replacing. We are collapsing all the three and we now have one legislation. Therefore, all the Ministries will be represented under one roof so that we can expedite the process.
On the second question on the advisory board, the thinking that we had is, we need to move our economic agenda faster than what we are doing. The thinking that we have if you understood in my speech is, we want it housed in the President’s office so that he has direct oversight on investment issues initially and progressively when we now are familiar with it we can then have a board that will be a stand-alone or even a CEO at ZIDA that will not be part of that. Our thinking based on lessons learnt from others, in the initial phases it is prudent that we deal with it in such a manner. I thank you Hon. President and I move that the Zimbabwe Investment Development Agency Bill [H. B. 2A, 2019] be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
ZIMBABWE INVESTMENT DEVELOPMENT AGENCY BILL
[H. B. 2A, 2019]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 6 put and agreed to.
On Clause 7:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Hon. Chair. Previously, I queried the issue of a CEO who has got an advisory board and I also mentioned that in terms of corporate governance, I did not find that to be a prudent move. The Minister went ahead and explained the reason why we have that kind of approach and scenario. The explanations to me sounded like explanations that are temporary. We are coming up with an Act; we are not coming up with a regulation. We cannot come up with an Act whose clauses have got some limited time to it. We were hoping that this will stay for longer than the years that the Minister has already alluded to. My question therefore is, why are we having a situation that is temporary in an Act rather than go for the appropriate corporate governance structure and then possibly come up with a regulation for the intermediate situation that he is talking about? I do not understand why we should do that. Thank you.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam Chair, I am still on 7, the issue of the Advisory Board. I think the Minister will consider this. Let us do the right things at the right time because we have a problem where we say we are doing temporary, then we discover we have a problem and we start putting Statutory Instruments. You remember when we were debating the Budget, it was pointed out to us to say we have a lot of Statutory Instruments that we put through. The best thing that we can do here is to ordinarily go for the board. For example, if you look at 7 itself, it talks about the advisory board, then composition of the ZIDA Board. You can see that even when we are talking we are thinking of a real board, so the Minister should consider that we have a board that is going to be responsible for these things.
As you say, this office or this particular operation or this Act is going to be supervised from the Office of the President. I believe it will also reduce friction between the advisory board and the Chief Executive Officer. I think the Minister should look at that carefully and listen to what we are trying to put through so that we do things that will last and that will help the country. I thank you Madam Chair.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Madam Chair. I would like
to point out to the Minister that the last time when we had a one-stop Investment Centre, the thought was that it would make it easier for the investors to come into one place and do everything under one roof but it never took off. I do not see the difference in practice really between what happened and what is going to happen now. If the President is the one who is going to make the transition smooth, I do not believe that he will be doing it personally, he will be doing it through a proxy, obviously. Why does that person not go to the Investment Centre and represent the President wherever those things are taking place while the board itself is running the process as they should, so that we do not have a timeframe where after a certain period we are moving now from the
President’s office to the Investment Centre offices where these things should be done.
I think the representative of the President should go and sit there, see how things are done. If he is not happy with anything, he can point it out there and have it sorted out. When he is satisfied that everything is now moving smoothly, he just excuses himself without having to put everything in the President’s Office. For your own information Minister, it might look okay for us here because we are used to these things but from outside the minute you say that investment is going to be in the President’s Office, they immediately begin to suspect that hmmm, those people have started again. Why should the President of the country be involved with private investment, so we are back again to corruption. Without them telling even you anything, there will just be no movement and you will be surprised. I think it is better to semblance of normalcy outside but the President still maintains that oversight but without having him appear as if he is the one running the show. Thank you Madam Chairperson.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Chair. My assertion was not we are making a law that we want to amend tomorrow. Any law as long as it is there, if a need arises, it does not matter when you enacted that law, you will always try to update your laws to speak to what is obtaining at that particular juncture. What I was alluding to was that what we need to do now is we feel that the best way of doing it is to have an advisory board where we have a chief executive officer who is accountable to Parliament. Even when you talk about corporate governance, the CEO is still accountable to Parliament through the reports that he will produce so that it is covered. There is no violation of corporate governance laws in that regard. At the moment what we want to do to speed up investment, to speak to the current environment - this is the structure that will speak to that.
I heard also you saying let us do the right things at the right time. This is exactly what we are trying to do, to do the right thing at the right time by having an advisory board and a CEO who is accountable to Parliament. Exactly what you are speaking about is what we are trying to do. We had a one-stop centre that never took off. We are trying to correct that by ensuring that now we will have a one-stop centre that is a statutory board. If you go into the Bill, that centre will now be a statutory board and it can be enforced. Enforcement can be done through courts, unlike what it used to be when it was simply an administrative centre without any statutory authority. Now it is there in the Bill. Whatever reservations that you have what we are trying to do speak to what the Hon. Members are alluding to and I believe their fears must be allayed and we proceed in the manner that the Bill is like Madam Chair. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Madam Chair, I am not answered.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I answered the
question. You spoke about the one-stop centre that never took off. Perhaps you wanted me to allude to the fact that investors, the moment you mention the President’s Office, they are afraid. On the contrary, we had experiences in Rwanda where they have their investment centre in the President’s Office and they have done extremely well. It depends on who is manning the investment centre not to say it is a bad idea to have it in the President’s Office. The Rwandan example was then a sight to look at. They have done tremendously well but is housed in the Office of the President and the CEO reports directly to the President and he has oversight on everything that is happening.
From the experiences, it reduces corruption because people would be afraid that the President would be near to what is happening. On a daily basis or weekly basis he is given brief on what is happening. People will be kept on their toes. I believe that for now, based on the experiences that we have had on the contrary having it in the President’s Office can work to our advantage based on the experiences. We had the Portfolio Committee on Industry and Foreign Affairs, they visited and were satisfied that it is the way to go. I thank you Madam Chair.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Can the Minister explain again where he says the Chief Executive Officer will be answerable to Parliament.
Where are we getting it here in the document?
HON. ZIYAMBI: We will get there.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My question is just an extension. I am looking at 7(2) in particular, the third sentence, where it says Section 42, I think you meant section 43 but if you are looking at those reports, it says as directed by the Board. We are going back. Is the Board directing or advising? That will be the question but also it is supposed to be Section 43 not 42. So we are still writing in terms of the same corporate governance structure that I was talking about where the Board directs and here he is saying the Board advises. Just the same on sentence two, it is supposed to be subsection A (i) rather than 1 (a) instead. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I think I agree. It is a typographical error. It is supposed to be section 43 and that we will correct. The way it is, it is correct. We want to capture that so that if the Advisory Board gives advice and the CEO does not take it, in the report it must reflect that advice was given; so it does not have discretion not to include it when the Board has said we gave you advice but you disregarded it but in the report, it must be indicated that it comes to Parliament. So the way it is crafted is very correct but I think we need to correct where it says section 42, I think it was a typographical when the Bill was being scrubbed by Parliament after it went through the National Assembly to indicate that it is section 43. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: The very section which was
being looked by the Minister. I am a little bit puzzled as to why the Chief Executive should not take seriously recommendations made by a fully constituted Board for that matter and wait for annual reports. I do not know whether that is correct or are you saying we have got someone, a Chief Executive who just gets advice but is not bound and can do anything and we wait for the annual report to justify. If that advice was correct, we wait for us to read the mistakes and then to say advice was given.
I think if we need a Board, let us have a Board. If we do not need a Board let us not put structures to accommodate people to employ people? We want people who do the correct thing. If there is a Board, the function of the Board is to give strategic direction which should be actually followed by whoever is the Chief Executive, but not to say when you are given that strategic direction, you have got the liberty to say I do not want to listen to it and then we wait for an annual report. I think we cannot sit here and put such a system which will not work.
Basically, the argument of the Hon. Minister is to say we are actually trying to put a structure which does not have any binding on what is happening so why do we need to stress the fiscus in accommodating such people?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, this is an Advisory Board that is different from the Board that is in this section. Secondly, the Advisory
Board may direct a special report on the CEO’s refusal to follow advice. So that report can be tabled before Parliament at any time. Then there is the annual report that is mandatory. So I do not see where the waiting time is. We want to have it legislated that the advice of the Board must be taken seriously. So, if we couch it in this manner, it means that before the CEO refuses, he will apply his mind to the advice and when he reaches a stage where he says I am not taking this advice, I am sure he would have considered it carefully. So this clause is actually empowering the Board for them to fill that whatever advice they are giving is going to be regarded seriously. I thank you.
Clause 7 put and agreed to.
On Clause 8:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The composition of the Board, now this is an Advisory Board again so I am now thinking like an advisory rather than the actual Board. Now, if I was to think that way, I look at the type of people that are expected here. Mainly, five of them are going to be public sector at director level and then we have three from international. Can I get clarification on the public sector? Are we expecting these people to be people from the parastatals or its people with expertise like in different areas of the economy? That is the clarification I would want. Then if someone can look at section 8 (3), is section 17 and 18 compatible with this new version? Thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Section 8 (4), the issue of choosing the Chairperson of the Board. I had asked this previously to say why should not the Board sit when it is constituted then choose their Chairperson amongst themselves rather than to have a direct appointee?
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Mine is section 8 (2), where it talks of the CEO being an ex officio member of the Board and the secretary to the Board. This one seems to be contradicting what we were all talking about. In this situation, the CEO is actually a subordinate of the Board because that is what actually happens in most Boards where the CEO becomes the secretary, he is not the boss of the Board but all along from page number one up to here, we thought that the CEO was going to be the head where he is going to be advised by the Board. In this situation, this statement does not mean that. I am sure there could be some bit of contradiction there and we need to correct the English around that area.
The sense actually is not agreeing with what we are talking about.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Mpofu spoke
about the five chosen from the public sector at Director level and above in line with the Entities and Corporate Governance Act. My understanding is that the public sector is different from the Public Service and public sector can include parastatals as long as it is a public entity. So, these persons can be chosen from that pool in that regard.
Then Hon. Sen. Mavetera, you were worried about the Minister appointing the Chairperson of the Board and why they should not choose one among themselves. We believe that the Minister responsible should choose the Chairperson of the Board who will chair in order to avoid them choosing among themselves. Why should they choose among themselves, the President can appoint and this is not an elected board where these members can be elected to this advisory board. If it was a board where the members were elected, then they will then elect one of their own, but these are people that have been appointed into that board. It is more like what you did with some independent commissions where the appointing authority appoints the Chairperson. It is consistent and I think in this regard, it is a good law as it is and if they were voted or elected, then perhaps they would need to appoint one of themselves and have an election to choose.
Hon. Sen. Komichi, the CEO needs to be in the board so that he can take into consideration and he will now be producing the reports of the board and taking care of the advice. So, we believe that the way it is consistent with what we want to happen to ensure that the board is supposed to advise him. There is a board and there is the agency, so you need to separate the board and the agency. The advisory board does not have a function of running the agency. So, the CEO will go into the board as the secretary, gets the advice and then he will apply it when he is running the agency.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Chair. All I was asking the Minister on 8 (1) (b) was to widen the scope of people that they can choose from to include private and public sector because there are people in the private sector that such a board will benefit from.
The second part is, I still feel that possibly the Minister should reconsider No. 2. The Chief Executive Officer, if he is going to have an advisory board, then he should chair the advisory board. The way it is written is actually more confusing because it is an advisory board – people who are advising him. He goes and sits there so that he can get advice from these people then it makes more sense than to have an advisory board that has its own chairperson, its own deputy chairperson and it is running on its own then the Chief Executive Officer comes as an ex-officio member. To me it does not make corporate sense. It will make sense if the Chief Executive Officer, because of the status that has been given by the Minister, becomes the chair of that board and if that board becomes just what it is, an advisory board and not a board in its own right like what it is now.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. What he is suggesting is trying to smuggle in the board not to become an advisory board because the moment the Chief Executive Officer becomes the chair, how does it become an advisory board because he is chairing and he is responsible for what is coming out of that meeting and how can he then go out and say, I am disputing what I have deliberated and agreed to. He is an ex-officio producing reports and in that regard, somebody chairs, they make a decision – he does not have a vote. The moment we do it the way you want, I am afraid that we are trying to go through the back door to ensure that we make it not an advisory board but a board in
itself.
The private one is there on 1 (a) where we speak of those three persons. They are entirely from the private and we are not looking at the public sector. So, the private is catered for. So, there is 3 (5) which we feel is okay.
Clause 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9:
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Madam Chair. I want us to go
to No. 1 of section 9. It says, there shall be a Chief Executive Officer of the agency who shall be appointed by the President. On the President’s own authority, if the President is responsible for administering the Act, I would say, why do we not say, there shall be a Chief Executive Officer of the agency who shall be appointed by the President? Simple, because in any way, what we understand is, we have already been told to say the President is going to administer this one. Then, you say there shall be a
Chief Executive Officer of the agency who shall be appointed by the President in consultation with the Minister responsible for administering this Act, then we take off that they will administer and do this and that.
HON. B. MPOFU: This one is minor. It is 9 (2) where you talk of Section 6 (1) (b) and there is no section (1) (b), it is 7 (1) (b) I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
again, I agree on that one. It is a typographical error, it was changed after the debate in the National Assembly. I want to thank you for that that was not captured correctly.
Hon. Shoko, we have Ministers in the President’s Office so the President may also decide to assign anyone at any point. This Clause is trying to cater for that to say even if it is in the President’s Office, there is a Minister who is there who has been assigned to do it who is housed in the President’s Office. The President decides to assign it to himself or a Minister in his office so this is just to make it clear to say that he can do it himself or he can assign a Minister after consulting that Minister.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam Chair, to me it is not
very clear if the President is administering it, it does not matter whether he goes through them because it is his appointee. There seems to be a contradiction where the Minister can appoint the advisory board and the President appoints the CEO, it must be just the President doing that, he can chose anyone still through him. I do not have the document but whilst I am listening, it is not very clear who is administering and once you mention the President’s Office, there is no need to mention the Minister. He appoints the CEO then the Minister appoints a board and an advisory board that advises the appointee of the President. It becomes problematic.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you. Hon. Sen. Mudzuri if you go to
the definition of Minister, again it includes even the Vice President or the President when he is administering the Act himself. If you check that definition and what we are trying to say here is very consistency. I implore you to accept that what is there is very correct and we move to the next Clause. I thank you.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
Clauses 10 to 19 put and agreed to.
On Clause 20
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Mine is just a minor one Hon.
Minister. What this Clause is talking about is that the investors must abide by this Act and any other legislation in Zimbabwe. That is okay but they must also abide by all the laws in Zimbabwe. So, you can see that it is not including the common law. So, it is legislation in Zimbabwe as well as the laws in operation in Zimbabwe. I thought we should be clear.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair,
Hon. Sen. Mwonzora is pretty much aware that the common law has always taken to apply so you then don not need to legislate, to put that emphasis so the way it is, is the correct way.
Clause 20 put and agreed to.
On Clause 21:
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam Chair. I just
want to find out from the Minister, to me Clause 21 is of interest in the manner that of recent we have had so many investors coming and putting in quotations of their investments into our country without actually paying due support of the local communities. A good example is the Chiadzwa where all the diamonds have been exhausted but there is not even a tarred road. I think we need to put in place wherever it can be put, if it is hidden somewhere, to say that such infrastructure must be made available which is standard infrastructure.
We cannot have someone who just goes in the bush and actually make gullies, no access roads and all supporting infrastructure, I think we need to capture it rather than to leave it. We need to be specific to what we want. I remember one of the reasons why the Chinese were being accused of exploiting Africa and they said it is because Africans do not know what they want. They do not know how to state what they want. So, can we be explicit in what we expect as a community.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: In support of the colleague that has just spoken, I think there is something around community share ownership trust and investment share ownership trust. Can that also be included around this area. I know that the Minister might say that; because it is a law on its own it will apply but sometimes some of these responsibilities have got to be explicit. Unless they are explicit some will act and say that they did not know something like that existed
HON. SEN. SHOKO: It will be very good that this thing says one stop investment service centre that is on Section 5. I think what we need to do is, let us bring everything that the investor is supposed to be responsible for in this Act. You remember we are trying to bring in the Marriages Acts together; it is because we are saying the papers are too many. So when the investor comes, he picks this up; he knows that there is a responsibility that he should be incorporating. That is very important for our own people because when these people leave, they leave gullies and other bad things when there is no development at that particular place. So it is very important that let us have a one stop Act also that brings in the entire Acts that is talking about investment. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Minister, I am from Zvishavane. We have got the Chinese that are mining chrome, platinum and there is a chrome plant as well. However, these people are not doing anything for the community. I think when the chiefs complained, they ended up buying exercise books for that school called Mapandura Primary School.
So I think here, when you really explain to say you are coming in to invest; our laws are clear that minerals in a particular community must benefit the people of that area. When investors come in, they must at least build a school, fix roads of that area and other things that are tangible.
I just want the Hon. Minister to understand what I am saying so that when you are negotiating with these investors we also copy our Constitution and make sure that the community benefits. If you leave this Act hanging like this we will end up with so many gullies in the country and as a result, so many cattle will die.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I want to thank the Hon. Senators for their debate on this clause.
Hon. Mavetera’s concerns; I believe that this law will correct what he is alluding to. It is going to correct that problem and the details can be left to agreements that will be made between the communities and the investor as well as regulations that will come out of this. We also have to be mindful that in trying to legislate, we should be cognisant that we have other existing Acts. That is why if you go to this, it alludes that in addition to their basic obligations in accordance with this Act and with all laws of Zimbabwe? So, perhaps we can produce a handbook on investment and the laws that govern but we cannot collapse all laws and other functions of ministries into one law. We cannot do that; we can come up with a handbook but laws must speak to each other. There are other laws like the Empowerment Act; there are provisions with regards to community share ownership that are there. So, what we are trying to do through this clause is exactly to solve the problem that you allude to and we will have to make sure that the agreements will speak to what you are saying as well as the regulations that will arise out of this particular Act.
Hon. Mpofu, you wanted us to have everything here in this Act; we cannot usurp the functions of other ministries like I said. Perhaps we can come up with an investment handbook that will then include all the related laws, how they relate to each other so that it becomes easier.
Also, remember that we are now coming up with a one stop centre where all the relevant ministries will be represented so that investors under one roof can consult and be able to be familiar with everything else. So, all the ministries and stakeholders will be represented. So your fears will be answered in that regard and allayed. The community trusts are dealt with in the Economic Empowerment Act.
Senator Timveos what you allude to is exactly what I am saying we want to address in this clause. The needs of individual communities differ, that is the reason why we want- when the agreements are being couched, the needs of specific communities are then captured in those particular agreements and we also produce regulations that will give a broad perspective of how these investors are supposed to act.
So, I believe this clause is speaking to what you are alluding to and also other pieces of legislation that are there will also help reinforce what we are all talking about. I want to thank you for the contributions and move that we pass this.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Hon. Chair, I just want to
propose maybe an (e) that shall say the investor shall comply with an investors handbook that will be available. I am saying that because we have to go through that handbook and ensure that all the laws are in one book. You cannot expect an investor to read all the laws when the handbook is not there. That handbook will now take into consideration environmental issues, corporate responsibility for an investor. That handbook must be within that room. If we put it there, we are sure that the handbook is availed.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: The Hon. Minister has tried to answer
the question but I think my question was partly responded to. The issue
I am talking about is very critical in our country. I have talked about roads and schools - empowerment and social responsibility are different. those laws were there when Chiadzwa was being looted. The Chinese and the other friends came and mined diamonds and we have not benefited anything. Let us be specific. I hope the Minister will give due respect to this. I express my fears because we represent the people. What I am saying is Chiadzwa does not have a clinic when we actually had billions worth of diamonds that were looted out.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I want to thank Hon. Mudzuri and say when I spoke about a handbook, it is very difficult to put a handbook here that will be produced by officials. What will be the legal status of that handbook? It comes problematic to say let us have a handbook unless if it is subjected to the Parliamentary process to give it the legal status. A handbook can be produced for ease administration of the agency and also regulations can help to ensure that we have a handbook that is produced to ensure that the process is done appropriately.
I want to turn to Hon. Sen. Mavetera and say in terms of our laws, investors even in mining have a prescribed fee that they have to pay to rural district councils. Our councils have not been doing that. What we have done now is the President has mandated the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to say if they have not to rural district councils, do not renew the licences. That is another way of empowering them. The law is there within the rural district council. It has to levy the mining companies. That money is used in the community where the mine is operating. So, we have provisions of the rural district council. We also have the Empowerment Act that governs the community trust that you allude to. Over and above that if a mining company is operating in a particular area within the jurisdiction of a certain rural district council and is using a road and that road is overused, the rural district council has the authority to summon them to tell them that they are supposed to repair the road. That is also available.
This clause is giving specific responsibilities like we mentioned preservation of the environment but over and above that we are saying other laws that govern how investors are supposed to operate are there and they have to be respected. The issue of compliance with the laws is different from legislating it. I gave the example where the President said the Minister of Finance and Economic Development has to ensure that there is proof that payment has been done. So, that is now compliance with existing legislation, which is what we hope going forward we have to ensure that it is done. That is where I agree with you.
In terms of preservation of the environment we have EMA. They are empowered to look into that. The rural district councils are also empowered. We have also have the Empowerment Act which governs that. Therefore I believe that we have sufficient legislation which unfortunately we cannot collapse in one legislation; we cannot codify it in a handbook as suggested by Hon. Mudzuri but that will be done at an operational level not at the legislative stage. So, I propose that we adopt the clause as it is Hon. Chair. I thank you.
Clause 21 put and agreed to.
On Clause 22:
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On Clause 22 (3b), the Chief Executive Officer may impose such conditions on the issuance of the investment licence as he or she considers fit whether or not on the basis of any advice or recommendation tendered by the board in terms of paragraph (a). I am not sure once you give discretion totally as one considers fit, it is a very dangerous statement to say what he considers fit. He must comply. That is why I say someone must have some room of appeal and you consider your rule book which I have advised on (e) which I thought should be approved by Parliament so that conditions are all known. Parliament should have a proper supervisory role on whatever comes from the CEO. I find it dangerous to say as he sees fit.
Once you say this, the law becomes very difficult.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFIARS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Chair. The law allows for administrative review of any action done by anyone. If anyone is aggrieved, there are channels to follow. Besides, when you are given advice, advice is not binding. Again we are going round trying to smuggle something that we have already agreed on to say this is an advisory board. This is consistent with what the board is. He can refer to the board but this subsection is saying he has to apply his mind and he is not bound by the advise that he has been given. He can accept it or not accept it. It is very consistent. On your point where you say speak about Parliament, again the CEO produces reports which come to Parliament through relevant Minister or the
President. So again, that is covered because all the reports will come to Parliament and that is accountability to Parliament. In terms of advise, I am sure Hon. Mudzuri you will agree that when you solicit advise, it is advise. I thank you Madam Chair.
HON. SEN. MUDZURI: What I want intimating is the same thing on the same Clause. Hon. Minister, you advised earlier that the advisory board may direct the CEO and he must take that direction. Here you are saying as he sees fit irrespective. Maybe I am missing something but there is serious contradiction in my brain. From my memory, unless I missed something, in one of the Clauses earlier on, I cannot remember which one, you said you cannot have a board that fails to direct. Now you are saying as they see it fit. That is personal discretion. If that person is directed then he sees it fit, is that not contradictory? That is what I am saying.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFIARS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I think Hon.
Mudzuri did not get my earlier clarification, perhaps he was not in. It was – [HON. SEN. MUDZURI: Inaudible interjection.] -
THE CHAIRPERSON: With all due respect, you address the
Chair. You cannot answer the Minister when he is busy presenting.
HON. SEN. MUDZURI: I was talking here.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mudzuri, I heard you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFIARS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Chair, what we were talking about are reports to Parliament at the request of the advisory board which is different from this. In any event, what he is alluding to, it does not mean each time you get advice, you get good advice. Sometimes you can get bad advice and you do not have to follow that advice because I had been given advice. That is the reason why we are saying, the board may request a report if they so wish can direct the CEO to say report to Parliament about this. I think he missed the point when we were discussing it in that regard. I move that we proceed Madam Chair. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Madam Chair. I stood because I realise my Chief Whip is here. You came with a double jacket. You came as the Minister of Industry and Commerce and as the Minister of Mines. Our Senators said a lot of good things. They talked as if they are not Zimbabweans. When we look at mining that is taking place in the communities, we are the custodians and we are saying there is a lot of environmental degradation that is happening. The artisanal miners are engaging in mining activities that leave a lot of these trenches open. That is why I am saying that you came wearing both the Minister of Mines jacket and the Industry jacket. Colleagues of mine debated well and acted as if they are the only Zimbabweans. We are all Zimbabweans. I kept quiet and decided to round up because when you debate as politicians, we do not want to be involved. It will seem like we are supporting a particular party. I thought I would say this as we are the ones who represent the people in the rural areas.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: The other problem – I just want to buttress what Hon. Sen. Chief Ntabeni has said. I am going to give the example of Zvishavane again. The Chinese after digging their holes, cows dying and children dying by falling in, they were called by the community to say, look you are not closing the holes. They said no, you do not need to talk to us, you must talk to the President. He is the one who brought us here. The community then kept quiet because the President is the last person. We have to manage the issue that the President has to be told. Obviously the communities will not go to the
President. They will just keep quiet. I am trying for us to balance that. *THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFIARS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Chair. I have heard the chief debating. This Bill is not from the Ministry of Mines or the Ministry of Industry, it is under the Office of the President. Issues to do with matters from the President’s Office require the Leader of the House to bring these Bills. Secondly, as I said to my Hon. chief, we have a number of legislation that interlinks. We have EMA, we have our local authorities and we also have the role of traditional leaders. If you look at this Bill on Section 21 (d) it talks about respect for our traditional laws and culture. If it had not been captured in the previous legislation, we have factored it in this legislation so that it will enable you to govern as traditional leaders.
On Sen. Timveos issue, this Bill is not there to regulate the mining sector only but it regulates all the investment that comes into the country. These are just there to give licenses. When you hear others saying that we were referred here by the President, they should comply with the Mining Act. The President does not regulate the Mining Act.
If it is someone who is into cooking oil manufacturing, they all go to this particular Bill. Each investor has its section. If you are into agriculture, there is Minister Shiri and it depends on which ministry you are coming in under. So the Bill will regulate all those incoming investors. I think Madam Chair, we have clarified this issue and we can proceed. I thank you.
Clause 22 put and agreed to.
Clauses 23 to 26 put and agreed to.
On Clause 27:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I want to understand Clause 27 in the context of companies that have been sold. Does it mean that a company will need to reapply?
HON. ZIYAMBI: The mischief that we envisage is there are people who shop and come to look for a license which they will never use and then sell at an exorbitant price without doing anything.
Company takeovers are normal procedures that will be done to ensure that there is a company takeover but there are some that will come to say I want to do this investment and then use that license to sell it. So this clause is trying to mitigate against that. I thank you Hon. Chair.
Clause 27 put and agreed to. Clauses 28 to 29 put and agreed to On Clause 30:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: There are two issues that I wanted addressed on Section 30. The first one, in this Section, we see clearly that there is the word ‘Minister’ then I actually went back to the definitions that are there that the Minister alluded to earlier on when my colleague raised the issue of the President. Under Section 2 which is interpretation, it does clearly state what is meant by ‘Minister’ but in no part of this legislation is a definition of ‘President’. Is it the President of
Senate or the President of the country? In my view, where it is written
‘President’ anywhere in this particular legislation, we should substitute with the ‘Minister’ because the ‘Minister’ has been appropriately interpreted. Thank you.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON: I think the Constitution when
it states the President, it means the President of the State. Let us avoid going round and round, we have been talking about these Ministers for quite a long time now but it keeps on coming back. I do not know whether people do not understand what the word ‘Minister’ means
really.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I will respond specifically to Clause 30, it refers to the Minister responsible for Finance. So what he is alluding to is not included in this clause. This clause speaks about the Minister of Finance. I thank you.
Clause 30 put and agreed to.
Clauses 31 to 47 put and agreed to.
On Clause 48:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I just want to highlight something that needs to be done after this whole process has gone through. The only problem is that, if it is highlighted after, it might not stick because it was not agreed to. In particular, I think when the sections were shifted, they were not all shifted properly. I have realised that I have quite a number of them that were not shifted properly. I do not know how that can be addressed in a way that at the end, ‘this agreed to’ is not going to affect that noble contribution.
I wanted to highlight - it is Section 48 (1) where it says repeal law, means the Act repealed by Section 46 (2); it is supposed to be 47. Then, if you go down on Part 2, towards the end it says 46. (2), it is supposed to be 47. If you go down on 3 again, 46 and so on, that is why I said if this has been done because before that I have realised that there are some more at the back here that were not captured properly and I am happy to write them down if the Minister allows me to.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, when we have finalised, I think that the textual corrections are not amendments and the staff, the Counsel of Parliament will go through whatever we have done for corrections. Like I said, when we did this Bill in Parliament, our staff here, the Counsel’s office had to put together everything that we did.
Sometimes errors happen but before it is sent to the President for assent, everything will be cleaned up appropriately and we will have a good law. I thank you for that observation.
Clause 48 put and agreed to.
Clause 49 put and agreed to.
First to Fourth Schedules put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam Chair. I think I need to just point
out something. On page 40, please, it is minor and it helps. There, it should not be “BUT”, it should be “BOT” – build, operate and transfer.
Thank you.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: On a point of order Mr. President, I thought it was with amendments. We are accepting this Bill with amendments that we agreed to in this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The
Chairperson of the Committee reported the Bill without amendments but I am advised that there were typographical and textual errors which are going to be corrected. That is what I understood.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: If that is the understanding, then I do not have any problem Mr. President.
THIRD READING
ZIMBABWE INVESTIMENT DEVELOPMENT AGENCY BILL [H.
- 2A, 2019]
THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President, I
now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
THE HON. MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President, I just rose to thank the Hon. Senators for the lively debate. I want to thank those that highlighted some of the issues that we need to correct in terms of textual and typographical errors. It shows that Hon. Senators are reading the Bills. I want to congratulate the House for this milestone in passing the Zimbabwe Investment Development Agency Bill which will change the nature of how investments are being done in the country. I want to thank you sincerely all the Hon. Senators for a job well done – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]
HON. SEN. CHABUKA: On a point of order Mr. President. I
am holding this Order Paper, it contains yesterday’s names of Hon.
Senators who were present, I was not here yesterday on 3rd December, 2019, I had gone to attend a funeral. I urge the Papers Office to remove my name. I am a member of a political party; I was not part and parcel of the Bill of the Minister of Finance.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Your point
is noted, you could have done it another way rather than interrupting the business of the House.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the Senate
adjourned at Twenty Four Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.