PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBAWE
Thursday, 2nd March, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. C. SIBANDA): Mr. Speaker,
I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until Order of the
Day, Number 2 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker, I move that
Order of the Day, Number 2 be stood over until Orders of the Day,
Numbers 3 and 4 have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND DISPOSAL OF PUBLIC ASSETS
BILL (H. B. 5, 2016)
Third Order read: Committee Stage: Public Procurement and
Disposal of Public Assets Bill (H. B. 5, 2016).
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment
standing in my name, which is inserting the definition of corruption in the Bill. Between line 44 and 45, page 6 of the Bill, to insert the following definition:
“Corruption means any conduct that constitutes an offence under Part IX of the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act [Chapter 9:23] or any attempt, conspiracy of incitement to commit such an offence.” Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 3 to 28 put and agreed to.
On Clause 29:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment
standing in my name that on page 21, delete Clause 29 and replace it with;
“29 Domestic preference
When evaluating bids, a procuring entity may give preference to bids from Zimbabwean or local suppliers and manufacturers and shall –
- Take into account the extent to which Zimbabwean or local suppliers and manufacturers must participate in such bid, or be subcontracted to supply the bided goods, construction works and services, in accordance with the provisions of the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act [Chapter 14:33] (No. 14 of
2007);
- Take into account the extent to which suppliers and manufacturers who are women or entities controlled predominantly by women must participate in such a bid, or be subcontracted to supply the bided goods, construction works or services; and
- Procure technological, engineering and industrial designs, solutions or applications that are or maybe the subject or registration as intellectual property, and that originate from a Zimbabwean university, polytechnic, college or research institution;
Provided that any preference shall be –
- Stated clearly in the bidding documents; and
- To be applied strictly in accordance with such procedures and criteria as may be prescribed or as maybe stated in circulars issued by the Authority.”
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Hon. Chair. I stand to express my appreciation for the amendments that have been proffered by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I think it does make a difference that when we raise issues in the House, the Minister does take them into consideration. In particular, let me appreciate the amendment that was brought in on 29(a), which takes into account the local suppliers. You will know that we have been raising this issue particularly in relation to issues that are to do with devolution, to say let us ensure that local suppliers do so. The reason why I am standing beyond just expressing my appreciation is to also say when we then go to the level of doing regulations for this particular Act, we hope the regulations will be much more tighter so that to some extent, it actually forces people that are going into some tendering to deal with local suppliers.
Let me also express my appreciation to the inclusion of subsection
(b) which says, ‘any bid which should consider all those entities that are controlled predominately by women’. The last time I gave an example that in Kenya when they did their regulations, they actually put a percentage that says, for every tender, there will be a 30% that will be accorded to women. I am hoping that when we go to the regulations, we will create that tighter issue.
Like before, I must extend that I find that women that are working in the Minister’s Ministry are supportive and amazingly so good in working together. Again, there was one woman that was so supportive that we worked with in coming up with this clause. I stand up just to say, I hope women understand the difference that this particular clause will make to the empowerment of women and that as soon as the tenders go out, we will be going to seek our slice and it will make our lives much easier. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 29 put and agreed to.
Clause 29, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 30 to 98 put and agreed to.
On Clause 99:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment
standing in my name that in line 36 on page 54 of the Bill, delete from paragraph (a) of sub-clause (1) “or the Prevention of Corruption Act [Chapter 9:16]” and substitute with “or of corruption”.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Chairman, I just want to make two points this
afternoon. The first is, this is a major piece of legislation and a tremendous amount of work has gone into developing this Act. I want to express appreciation to all the Government officials, especially those in the President’s Office who are responsible for this excellent bit of legislation. The second is for the Minister who has heard all the points raised by different stakeholders and has given careful consideration and I am very satisfied. The Economic Budget Committee is extremely satisfied with what the Minister has done on our behalf. I just wanted to express appreciation to him for listening to the voice of the House.
Amendment to Clause 99 put and agreed to.
Clause 99, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 100 to 106 put and agreed to.
First, Second and Third Schedules put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE VICE PRESIDENT
MNANGANGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. C SIBANDA): Thank you
Madam Speaker. I move that we revert to Order of the Day, Number 1.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE TRADE MARKS (MADRID PROTOCOL)
REGULATIONS
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move the motion standing in the name of the
Minister of State, and the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Office that this House: -
RECALLING that the Government of the Republic Zimbabwe has acceded to the World Intellectual Property Organisation’s Protocol relating to the Madrid Agreement concerning the International Registration of Marks of 1989 (the Madrid Protocol) and accepted the obligations that follow there from;
NOTING that Parliament has approved the amendments to the trade Marks Act (Chapter 26:04) to incorporate the provisions of the
Madrid Protocol into domestic legislation as contained in the General
Laws Amendment Act, 2016;
FURTHER NOTING that the full operationalisation of the MADRID Protocol has been hampered by the absence of implementing regulations;
WHEREAS subsection 7 of section 97B of the Trade Marks Act (Chapter 26:04) requires that any regulations for the operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol are to be tabled before Parliament for approval;
AND WHEREAS, the Ministry of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs has developed the Trade Marks (Madrid Protocol) draft regulations for the operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol which have been placed before Parliament for consideration and approval;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon this House to approve the
Trade Marks (Madrid Protocol) Regulations as contained in the said draft statutory instrument and have them gazetted for effective operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol.
The Government of Zimbabwe joined the World Intellectual
Property Organisation’s Protocol relating to the Madrid Agreement concerning the International Registration of Marks on the 11th December, 2014. The main purpose of the Protocol is to provide a simplified and inexpensive procedure for the registration of trade marks in the countries which are party to the Protocol. By joining the Madrid Protocol, Zimbabwe has accepted the obligations arising there from.
These proposed regulations will assist the Department of Deeds, Companies and Intellectual Property within the Ministry of Justice to process the trade mark applications that are filed through the Madrid system. As it currently stands, all the trademarks that have so far been filed through the system are yet to be processed because of the absence of the implementing regulations to guide the Department on what needs to be done.
The regulations provide for the functions and procedures that are to be followed by the Department of Deeds, Companies and Intellectual Property, both as an office of origin and also as a receiving office when handling trademarks applications. As an office of origin, the Department of Deeds, Companies and Intellectual Property shall be responsible for examining trademark applications originating from Zimbabwe before transmitting them to the International Bureau at WIPO. As a receiving office, the Department of Deeds, Companies and Intellectual Property shall be responsible for examining trademark applications designating Zimbabwe which come through the WIPO International Bureau and making decisions to register or reject such applications.
The promulgation of these regulations is, therefore, an issue that needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency to give the Department the relevant powers and directions on how to handle the trademarks applications coming through the Madrid system. From a business point of view, the African countries that are part of the Protocol have performed very well in ranking by the World Bank in terms of the ease of doing business index. See for example Botswana, Namibia and Kenya. It also helps expand the foreign currency streams as fees generated are transmitted to the Treasury. I now therefore move that the Madrid Protocol be approved.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker. Possibly, my issue
is a point of order or privilege. I wish to be assisted by the esteemed
Vice President, who is the Minister of Justice …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): What is your
point of order? I would like to inquire when it is - because the motion pertains to regulations that are yet to be gazetted, if I understand it correctly, that we are requested to approve. My question is have we been made privy to these regulations? I do remember that the august House did...
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The regulations were
distributed on the 13th of February 2017 in your pigeon holes.
HON. MAJOME: Is that so, then I stand to be corrected. That was indeed what I sought to ask. I thank you.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to commend
the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs for taking this very critical step to effectuate these regulations. Before doing so, I want to commend Government in general and the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs in particular and to say that Zimbabwe is a leader in the area of Intellectual Property in Africa; in that as early as 1983, Government saw it pertinent to assume this position in giving the
African Regional Intellectual Property Organisation a place to host it in Zimbabwe when no other country was prepared to give it a place to stay. Zimbabwe decided to host this very important organisation and gave it a place here in Belgravia; not only that, but under the leadership of the
Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, this organisation was transformed last year into a world class organisation, a very big one, high tech. I would urge Hon. Members to see this organisation just off Second Street which was launched just last year.
Coming to these regulations, I want to say that what the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs seeks to do is simply to formalise what was already accepted by this House. As it is known by every member in this House, we have already signed the protocols and the international agreements and so these regulations are simply to operationalise the international obligations that we have already signed and we are now implementing what we have already signed and agreed to.
It is important to understand that what we are doing is simply to assist our department of Deeds and Companies Registry to process the trademarks which have already been processed by this department without the help of these regulations. They are already in the system and the office has not been able to properly go through or process through these registrations without the proper legal framework. So, these regulations will now assist everyone who wants to register, knowing that there is legal certainty with regards to what we actually are doing.
It is important to highlight that the availability of these regulations will increase legal certainty by all the parties because the effect of these regulations is to enable people who want to register to register through our system into various countries; those that are the members of this system without going to each and every country instructing a lawyer in each country, getting translators and paying various sums and so forth. This is the effect of this system which means that we become a centre that is attractive to investors without going to various countries. I want to say that as the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has indicated in his delivery, we become a favourable destination because then investors find us attractive from an investor point of view because they can come to us and transact with us without having to go to various destinations. This has happened - we are already attractive to investors and within a short time of having joined this system, we have already opened the flood gates of investors with 903 registrations having already occurred. So, this is proving that we have done the correct steps from an investors’ friendly point of view.
What I would like to urge however, is to ensure that we now separate the Intellectual Property Office into a stand alone office and this is international practice and in that regard we are a bit isolated in Africa. I wish to urge the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to allow the income that is being generated in this office for some time to be spent in that office in order to ensure that the technology is upgraded to the required levels and also to ensure that we do not experience departures of staff within the region and in fact internationally. That is already being experienced because we are not in a competitive state to allow our staff to be kept by that office. Most of the African countries operate with a separate IP Office. We are going to experience generation of foreign currency which is in line with our ZIM ASSET strategies.
I want to commend once more the Ministry of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs for the way that it is encouraging practices around Intellectual Property Development and to encourage innovation all round. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker for recognising
- I think first and foremost, I would like to thank the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for bringing this to Parliament and also your submissions this afternoon, Hon. Vice President have taken a lot of stuff out of my mouth. That said, I would want to thank the immediate past speaker Hon. Chasi. He worked very hard when he was Deputy Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to bring to life most of the things that we are discussing today. When he left the Ministry, he left a void, that is why things have not moved because when he left he left a void. Hon. Chasi, I am not advocating for you to go back to the Ministry but only to say when you left you left, a terrible gap.
Madam Speaker, let me put this debate into context and say what trademarks are? I would like to say to the Hon. Vice President, trademarks have nothing to do with law but everything to do with business and trade that is point number 1. So, the Intellectual Property Office must not be housed in the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. It is now a unit in the Department of Deeds. I will tell you how this came about? This came about with an ordinance that was promulgated in Cape Town in 1894, even before members of the Pioneer Column came to this country to fly the Union Jack and name this town here Fort Salisbury.
Madam Speaker, the Trademark Office must essentially be housed in the Ministry of Industry and Commerce because it is industry. It is about income, investment and trade that is why they are called trademarks. What are trademarks? A trademark is a sign capable of distinguishing goods or services of one enterprise from those of other enterprises. Having said that, let me talk about intellectual property in general.
Madam Speaker, intellectual property means the legal rights which result from intellectual activity in the industrial, scientific, literally and artistic fields. Countries have lost intellectual property for two main reasons and I want to say what the reasons are. One is to give statutory expression to the moral and economic rights of creators in their creations and the rights of the public to access those creations. So, the issue of economy, money and trade comes up when you talk about intellectual property and when you talk about trademarks.
Now, the Madrid Protocol, the one that is the centre of discussion this afternoon has a number of advantages for this country to be a member of the Madrid Protocol. As I said before, Hon. Chasi did a lot of work and we became the 94th Member of the Madrid Protocol. It has got
98 Members and it controls about 124 States. What it means is that when a Zimbabwean files a trade mark with the Intellectual Property Office, the requirement is that you file with the country of origin. When it is filed in the Intellectual Property office in Harare, it is then filed with WIPO in Geneva and when it is filed with WIPO in Geneva, it is then protected in 98 countries. One application, one set of money in one language, you get protection in 98 countries.
Now, instruments of accession have already been deposited with
WIPO, as I said in 2014, following a lot of work which was done by Hon. Chasi here. But, I want to talk also of the profile of this office. Hon. Chasi said that they are currently retaining 5% of the money that they get from registration. That money Madam Speaker, is too little because there is a lot of work that needs to be done at the IP office and I doubt very much that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development will be able to fund that office because I think in the packing order, intellectual property comes very low. So if they are able to retain slightly more than they are retaining now, they are able to automate because when somebody comes with an application of a trade mark, you want to do searches. When you do a search, you do not want to do it manually. It must be automated and I think that is what Hon. Chasi was talking about. So, automation of searches is also very important.
Madam Speaker, the other issue that I want to raise here is the issue of the advantages of what the Hon. Vice President wishes to get from this Parliament. Zimbabwe will become a member of the family of nations. It is part of the re-engagement process of Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe becomes a member of the family of nations. We were slower than Malawi because Malawi, Namibia, Mozambique and Botswana have done it already. So, Zimbabwe was a bit slower and it is a bit disappointing that Zimbabwe was slower although as Hon. Chasi has reiterated, we house ARIPO here in Zimbabwe. In 1982, ARIPO could not find a place here in the region. There are about 17 or 18 countries in ARIPO and none of them could give ARIPO a place to stay and
Zimbabwe, through the wisdom of our Government, gave ARIPO a place. It is a huge advantage that we have ARIPO in this country. If you go and look at the offices which were incidentally officially commissioned by the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa here, they are of international standard; high-tech and busy with a lot of work but also the disappointing thing is that Hon. Vice President, 95 % of the intellectual property which is registered even through ARIPO is international and only 5% is from Africa. Even that 5% which is from Africa is controlled by international companies. So, there is need for us to be able to educate our people on the importance of intellectual property and that education only comes if the intellectual property office gets a funding which they are able to put into training.
As we stand now, without the regulations which the Hon. Vice
President is seeking this Parliament to accede to, we stand to lose a lot. Currently, the intellectual property office in Zimbabwe is sitting on about 1 200 applications which the Hon. Vice President says they are not able to do anything about because of the absence of operalisation of legislation. What happens is that when you file an application with
Madrid, you are given 18 months within which to respond? If you do not respond within those 18 months, WIPO deems the trademark to have been registered and protected.
Now here is the dilemma. The Madrid Protocol talks of a certain way of protection which Zimbabwe does not. The Madrid Protocol which I have written here talks about what is called Mono-Class of Protection. What Mono-Class of Protection means is that one application for one class of protection and yet the Zimbabwean law talks about Multi-Class Protection. So there will be a dilemma. So, we need to accede to what the Vice President wants us to do. Now, when 1 200 applications go through, it means more money coming to Treasury and Hon. Chinamasa will be the happiest person in this country if those 1 200 applications are paid for. What it means is for those people that have submitted those applications is that the applications are then protected in
Zimbabwe and you will have more people coming, applying through Zimbabwe, more people wanting protection in Zimbabwe.
Madam Speaker, I support the Hon. Vice President’s submission and I call upon this House to equally support the Hon. Vice President so that we accede and the protocol goes through. Lastly, Madam Speaker, I would like to say to the Hon. Vice President, if Hon. Kasukuwere were not disturbing him; I would like to say to the Hon. Vice President that one area that Zimbabwe must look at and Africa in general is the issue of traditional knowledge, traditional cultural expressions and expressions of folklore. That is one area Africa must look at. The reason why traditional knowledge is not protected the way other intellectual property is protected especially industrial property and copy rights is because most of the tradition knowledge is resident in Africa. That is why it is not protected.
I think there is need for Africa to come together and come up with a special sui generis regime that protects traditional knowledge and Madam Speaker, we must take a re-look at the Suppression of Witchcraft Act. The Suppression of Witchcraft Act militates against traditional knowledge. Most of today’s medicines come from genetic resources and those genetic resources are resident in Africa. I could give numerous examples but when those genetic resources and those medicines are protected, Africa does not get any return and Madam Speaker, I implore the Hon. Vice President who is the Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to please re-look at the Suppression of Witchcraft Act and let us ensure that traditional knowledge is protected either as trademarks and as intellectual property so that we get a return out of it. I would like to thank you.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am very excited
because this is a very progressive piece of legislation by way of regulations; and also just appreciating the fact that Government is moving with speed to be in line with global trends, global patterns. I am however not very clear and I would want the Hon. Vice President or the Minister in charge to also clarify that. This is because, in intellectual property, we are supposed to have more than just trademarks. We have geographical locations, industrial designs and patterns which are all under the rubric of intellectual property. Particularly, I would like to hear this because it speaks to the trademarks in terms of Section 97(b) (7). It goes to the issues of trademarks and how they have to dovetail and handshake into the global system of intellectual property registration, which is a fair and good point.
However, my fear and discomfort is that, we need to have a holistic approach so that we capture geographical indication. When we are talking about geographical indications –
Some Hon. Ministers having been talking to each other.
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Madam Speaker, may you advise our Ministers, they seem to be making a lot of noise. Please just guide them accordingly.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, please speak to
the Chair. I think it is because you are concentrating on the Ministers and not…
HON. CHAMISA: That is why I am seeking your guidance.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Speak to me.
HON. CHAMISA: Within the Standing Orders, you are enjoined by the laws to also advise Ministers to follow the rules of this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – if they want to have a chat…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Chamisa, speak to the Chair.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you very much – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members from the back!
Hon. Members, can Hon. Chamisa be heard in silence.
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, thank you very much. I really appreciate that protection. This is a very important piece of legislation. Geographical indications entail things like Katiyo, Tanganda and those that are very important in Manicaland, that have become international brands. They need to be registered, industrial designs are many and I do not think we have many of them here. For example, BMW, Mercedes Benz, those important designs need to be registered in terms of intellectual property.
However, I am not so sure in terms of legislation because we have the Act on industrial designs and on geographical locations. How we are going to make sure that it becomes part of the international system is something that we may need to implement with speed through making sure that we align our laws so that we also benefit from this very important regime internationally.
Hon. Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Minister for doing this in time because it is going to immediately position Zimbabwe as an investment destination. There is no doubt that people are going to come to Zimbabwe because we will be having investment-compliant laws. If you visit countries like the United States of America (USA) and China; one of the key issues they look at when they want to invest in a country is the capacity to allow and enable registration of their intellectual property rights.
It is so important to register intellectual property rights because it unlocks the gates to the ease of doing business. People become interested in a country on account of the nation’s compliance into the world system. It is almost like enter one, enter all system, once you enter Zimbabwe; you enter the entire Madrid system network. It is very important because you simply need a handshake within Zimbabwe and you will have a handshake with the whole world. It is very important to pose our country as an investment destination. Not only that, it is also going to make sure that Zimbabwe is going to harvest from the dividend of intellectual property. We have a lot of intellectual property in this country, but our people have not been educated and well-informed enough to register that kind of intellectual property.
In terms of our indigenous knowledge systems, herbal systems – of course I do not believe in herbs, but in terms of even music, the Tuku music for example, Jah – what is his name?…
Hon. Chamisa having been speaking to the gallery.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, speak to the
Chair.
HON. CHAMISA: It is not a crime to solicit the wisdom of other
Hon. Members of Parliament Madam Speaker. Mbira music for
example - [AN HON. MEMBER: Killer T.] – of course Killer T is not one of them. If you look at our indigenous knowledge systems, mbira for example, you go to Europe or anywhere, you will not find mbira instruments. It is something unique to our African setting. However, we need to make sure that such kind of important intellectual property is registered. Our drum is so beautiful and if we go to Europe with the way we beat the drum, one can actually marry on account of being good at it. You can earn a living, but we need to register all those important marks and intellectual property dimensions.
The second advantage we are going to have on account of justice is that Zimbabwe is going to become an intellectual property giant. We are also going to get a lot of money and commercialise our intellectual property endowments. The third one is that, we also have an intellectual history and we have a lot of intellectuals. Intellectual property rights are going to position our country as the hub of intellectual property within the world. It is very possible and we need to start positioning ourselves as the first among equals. That is why I want to appreciate this very important issue. Of course Hon. Chasi and Hon. Maridadi have already indicated that this is going to be a foreign currency earner and I do not want to waste a lot of time on that.
Last but not least is the internationalisation and globalisation of the brand Zimbabwe. Once we have done this, Zimbabwe is going to be immediately internationalised and globalised in terms of how it is accepted among the family of nations. It is a very important and progressive piece of legislation. We adopted it in the General Laws Amendment Act and now we are operationalising it to make sure that we open the process of registration.
I also want to urge the Government to do two critical things. The first one is to come up with high-tech facilities not just in Harare but across the whole country so that we can have registrations in Bulawayo, Masvingo or even in Victoria Falls. We do not want to limit it to
Harare. I have a problem with a ‘Hararerised’ system because Harare is not Zimbabwe and Zimbabwe is not Harare. Let us go up at least to our capitals, most importantly, Bulawayo and many others so that we are able to register. The second thing is to introduce intellectual property courses and curricula. I know that at Africa University we have a
Master’s programme and at the University of Zimbabwe, it is done as a course under the legal studies. We now need to make sure that at NUST, Africa University, Solusi University and even at high school, we introduce studies on intellectual property. That way, we are going to harness from the God-given gift of the intellectual property rights we have across the whole country.
Madam Speaker, this is one of the legislations where we should not waste a lot of time, but thank the Government where they would have done well. This is a good move, it must be supported and personally, representing my Constituency, supports this and say; this is a very progressive piece of legislation. However, the Government must also know that next time when they bring cantankerous pieces of legislation, they should not have problems with our rejection. This is because we look at good things, we admire them because it is good for our country.
We want to thank you Madam Speaker and also thank the Government.
Thank you very much.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to add my voice. Madam Speaker, I am just here to congratulate the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for bringing that protocol for ratification, in particular the one that speaks to Intellectual Property Rights. Madam Speaker, the Intellectual Property Rights, as he has alluded to that there are about 62 that have not been registered and assented to because of the prohibition of our nation assenting to or signing the treaty or the Madrid Protocol.
Madam Speaker, it is said in Shona, muzivi wenzira yeparuware, ndiye mufambi wayo. It is also prudent in the same vein, for other Ministries to take a cue from what the Minister of Justice has brought up today. That is the ratification of international treaties, protocols and conventions because some of these protocols impede upon our progress in terms of our oversight role and also in terms of execution of our mandate as the Executive and as a nation.
Madam Speaker, I want to call in the same vein, for centralisation of all protocols, conventions and treaties that need to be ratified and signed by the Zimbabwean Government so that it is known at any given time, which Ministry and which department has not ratified which protocol and what is the benefit of the ratification of such a protocol. Madam Speaker, what comes to mind immediately is the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol of 16 November, 2001. I say this because I am hoping that the relevant Ministry will be encouraged to ratify that convention because it is good in this manner as it gives us access to cheap aircraft; aware that there is direct Cabinet decision to find a partner for our flagship carrier. This convention of 16 November, 2001 which is deemed the Cape Town Convention, gives us access to cheap aircraft. I am saying, let the Executive in other Ministries and departments be encouraged by the ratification of the Madrid Convention.
Madam Speaker, I want to go further and say, as I conclude, it also gives us security from the debtors in that all debt is made good in the country of registry and if aircraft are to be impounded, they are only impounded in the State of registry, only to those members who are part to this convention. Why do I say so Madam Speaker? We have the
London route which is now closed and because we are not a member of IATA, we are at risk of having our aircraft impounded. If we assent to this convention and protocol, taking a cue from the Madrid Convention that we have alluded to, we protect ourselves using a convention which has agreements that can make sure that our flagship carrier cannot be impounded in a foreign land except in a country of registry. It also says, we can now go into the ambit of the class of people who have access to cheap aircraft.
Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to congratulate the
Minister of Justice in bringing the ratification of this protocol to the House and I say, other relevant Ministries should take a cue from him. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me an opportunity to lend my voice to this debate on the apparent domestication of our international obligations. I want to begin Madam Speaker through you, by congratulating and commending our esteemed Hon. Vice President who is the Minister of Justice for following through and making progress very strident and very palpable progress in the legislative agenda that we have before this House.
You will recall Madam Speaker, this august House did indeed adopt the Madrid Protocol through the General Laws Amendment Bill. It is heartening Madam Speaker, to see Hon. Vice President, the Minister of Justice, following through, taking and allowing this House to go to the next stage of approving – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Can
Hon. Majome be heard in silence?
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was saying that I am, through you, congratulating the Hon. Vice President for the diligence that has been exhibited by bringing various palpable stages of implementation of our legislative agenda that he did presented the
General Laws Amendment Bill and we adopted the Madrid Protocol.
Now, the Statutory Instrument Regulations are going into the final leg in terms of making them a reality. Madam Speaker, I add my voice to my fellow Hon. Members who have commended Hon. Vice President for moving to ensure that this august House contributes its bit in making sure that we improve the ease of doing business.
By domesticating the Madrid Protocol in this very practical manner, we indeed open up possibilities for the people of Zimbabwe who are of entrepreneurship and who are business minded, to be able to protect the fruits of their intellectual labour and to be able to have greater surface area, if I may call that, to entrench and get value from ring-fencing their own intellectual property in trade.
Madam Speaker, in saying that, I want to take the liberty to ask through you, the esteemed Vice President, Hon. Minister of Justice, to have the august House benefit from the same zeal in domesticating all other international treaties that we are part of. Indeed, it is good that we are moving towards business but the other international human rights instruments, it is my sincere hope that I will also live to see the Hon.
Vice President and his colleagues bringing to the august House, in the same manner, International Human Rights Treaties that Zimbabwe is part to, so that we may also domesticate them. I could give an example such as the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women. I will also bring the UN Covenance on Civil and Political Rights and Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.
It is my plea Madam Speaker, through you, that the Hon. Vice President does, in the same manner bring to the august House motions for us to domesticate these Bills. Madam Speaker, may I say that I want to particularly commend the Hon. Vice President for showing us that our Constitution is a good Constitution and that we can implement it and it is good for the country.
I am heartened that, specifically in terms of Section 34, that gives an obligation for Zimbabwe to domesticate those international treaties that we are party to. In this particular Madrid Protocol and the Statutory Instrument that he wants Hon. Members of the august House to support, which I do hope they support, it allows us to fulfill our own obligation in terms of the Constitution that I hope we will defend and promote.
Finally, Madam Speaker, I want to urge Members of the august House and Portfolio Committees to remember our own Standing Rules and Orders, because in terms of Rule 20, paragraph (e) of the Standing
Rules and Orders, it requires that every Portfolio Committee must, and
‘must’ is the peremptory wording; it is not optional. We are required to:
- “consider or deal with all international treaties, conventions and agreements that are relevant to Portfolio Committees, which are from time to time, negotiated, entered into and agreed upon”. While I agree that this is a Statutory Instrument and not necessarily the Madrid Protocol itself, I want to raise concern that I have noted that we seem to be in the bad habit of Portfolio Committees not at all considering these protocols and international treaties. They are not brought to Portfolio Committees and that when the Hon. Ministers give notice that they want to move motions, may I implore you Madam Speaker, that may your office and the Clerk of Parliament indeed refer international treaties to Portfolio Committees so that we can do our part and really do justice to these Statutory Instruments. There are instances where Portfolio might also be able to amplify and assist the Hon. Ministers to do their work. So, I request that in future, we make sure that international treaties are referred to Portfolio Committees because we continue to neglect our work as Parliament because these are our own Standing Rules and Orders. We made and passed them, so let us indeed fulfill them.
Indeed, I say that I am in support of the approval of the regulations. I do hope that Hon. Members indeed lend their support and that we shall in future domesticate all our other international treaties, especially human rights treaties in the manner that we are doing the regulations through the Madrid Protocol. I thank you Madam Speaker.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Firstly, I thank Hon. Majome for querying whether Statutory Instrument regulations had been made public. It is possible that there are some other Hon. Members who were not aware but by your own statement Madam Speaker, you have clarified that issue that the regulations were distributed.
With regard to the contribution by Hon. Chasi, let me assure the House that Hon. Chasi was my deputy and I assigned him to deal with these issues. He has done an excellent job in this area. We are where we are today in this area because of his contribution. He really did a fantastic job with regard to Intellectual Property and aligning all legislation relating to Intellectual Property Trademarks and so on. I miss him in that area.
The contribution by Hon. Maridadi, initially he talked of a void and I am not so sure that he is crossing into an area which is not of his responsiblility but he has a right to do so. Indeed, currently, Intellectual Property Deeds and Trademarks are housed under one umbrella office supervised by the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I am in total agreement with the sentiments that this could be separated. I have no doubt that down the line, that could be achieved but currently, that is the situation. I believe trademarks would easily be well suited in the Ministry of Industry and Commerce. We have no doubt about that but currently, it is not there. It is independent in the Companies and Deeds Office where they are housed but I believe that as we are progressing and improving, we should be able to separate these entities.
I also recommend the sentiments expressed by Hon. Maridadi.
Fortunately, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is here. But Unfortunately, I was talking and I do not think that he heard it when you talked about increasing 5% to a reasonable percentage but you did not suggest how much. So you know Minister Chinamasa, ukamuwana avete, if you say to him Chinamasa; Chinamasa, he will answer saying, handina mari, handina mari and you say no, ndakuvigira bagwe randagocha – [Laughter.] -
So, you should have gone further to suggest the level of intention. You also dealt with the issue of automation. We are really well advanced in that area but the constraint is the issue of resources and it is the direction that we are moving to achieve. On traditional systems and traditional medicines knowledge, again we want to take this on board. It is true that in the past, most African countries have left this behind because of colonialism. Because of colonialism, we felt that our traditional knowledge was backward but we now realise that it sustained generations after generations. It is important that we must preserve traditional systems or traditional knowledge in the same manner we should protect local knowledge including our forests (fauna). All that should be protected. You will find that in Europe, they do that but when they come to Zimbabwe, sometimes you find that they come and take our trees/plants and register them in Europe but these plants are actually domestic or African plants in Africa.
Hon. Chamisa, in fact both Hon. Maridadi and Hon. Chamisa, I have nothing really to add because they have been able to articulate this Madrid Protocol perhaps more than I would do myself. I congratulate you for the understanding which you have and the knowledge which you have exhibited, it has benefitted the House. I am not sure if they have done the same except that with Cde. Chamisa – [HON. CHAMISA:
Inaudible interjection.] - I am saying you did so well.
Hon. Chamisa is aware that there is a Design Act, there is the Geographical Indication Act but initially, he almost attacked then at the end, I thought he was ignorant but as he went on, he came back but he knows that these things are there. So, we would not put these things in the regulations because they are separate from this and are covered. So, again I thought you were ignorant only to be surprised that you cleared your own ignorance by stating that you know about the existence of these issues. So, I am very glad that Hon. Chamisa is very knowledgeable.
You also proposed that we should do decentralisation of these offices. Currently, we only have Harare and Bulawayo but it is necessary that as we master and gather resources from my brother (Minister Chinamasa) here, we should be able to decentralise. It is correct, both yourself and what Hon. Maridadi has said, that once you register one application here, we have 98 countries covered by one single application and this is an advantage that we are having. In fact, it will put Zimbabwe some index above from where we are now as a result of doing what we are doing just now. In about a week or ten days time, we will be in Geneva defending these protocols and I am happy that if we succeed in approving this protocol, it is a plus when we go to Geneva – [ HON. CHAMISA: I can accompany you to help you.]- If resources are available, I would not object but you need to talk to Minister Chinamasa.
Hon. Nduna, he is supportive but he brings in another aspect that there are several protocols. I think also the other earlier contributor said the same but let me say that there are so many protocols. The inflow gate is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the outflow gate again, is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But once the protocols come into Zimbabwe, there are line Ministries which then deal with the particular protocol or particular treaty so that you will find that there are so many treaties as Hon. Majome has said. There are so many treaties that are just hanging, they are not in Foreign Affairs, they are in line Ministries but at the end of the day, as each protocol, treaty or convention comes in, the Minister of Foreign Affairs sends that to the line Ministries to process. I am happy that as Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, we have the leeway to follow-up, can do so from a legal point of view - to follow-up these protocols that are hanging.
There are several of them. Hon. Majome has mentioned a few, but they are more than the number you have mentioned, which are hanging and require to be processed. We have given instructions that we should have a list of this to show which protocols have not been processed. Hon. Majome is happy that we are domesticating; yes this process we are doing is the process for domestication of the protocols.
With regards to Portfolio Committees, honestly I have no serious comment on that one. I believe that Hon. Majome was addressing this to Parliament rather than the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. It is an issue that can be handled by Parliament administration to make sure that the relevant Portfolio Committees do their work with regards to examining the protocols as well as the treaties, conventions and so on before they are processed here in Parliament. I therefore, move that this House do approve the Trade Marks Madrid Protocol Regulations 2017.
Motion that this House recalling that the Government of the
Republic of Zimbabwe has acceded to the World Intellectual Property
Organisation’s Protocol relating to the Madrid Agreement concerning the International Registration of Marks of 1989 (the Madrid Protocol) and acceded the obligations that follow there from;
Noting that Parliament has approved the amendments to the Trade
Marks Act [Chapter 26:04] to incorporate the provisions of the Madrid
Protocol into domestic legislation as contained in the General Laws
Amendment Act, 2016;
FURTHER NOTING that the full operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol has been hampered by the absence of implementing regulations;
WHEREAS Sub-section 7 of Section 97 (b) of the Trade Marks
Act [Chapter 26:04] requires that any regulations for the operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol are to be tabled before
Parliament for approval;
AND WHEREAS, the Ministry of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs has developed the Trade Marks (Madrid Protocol) draft regulations for the operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol which have been placed before Parliament for consideration and approval;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon this House to approve the Trade
Marks (Madrid Protocol) Regulations as contained in the said Statutory Instrument and have them gazetted for effective operationalisation of the Madrid Protocol.
Motion put and agreed to.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
DECLARATION OF STATE OF DISASTER IN FLOOD AFFECTED
AREAS
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Madam Speaker, His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe has declared a State of Disaster for flood affected communal, resettlement and urban areas in the country and this is in line with Section 27 (2) of the Civil Protection Act, Chapter 20 (6): 1989. The declaration will be in force for the next three months.
The 2016/2017 rainfall season has ushered in a trail of destruction in the following provinces : Matabeleland North (Thsolotsho, Lupane,
Nkayi, Binga, Umguza and Hwange urban. Matabeleland South,
(Matobo, Umzingwane, Bulilima, Insiza, Beitbridge and Gwanda).
Midlands (Gokwe North, Gokwe South and Mberengwa). Masvingo
(Chivi, Mwenezi, Chiredzi, Masvingo and Bikita). Mashonaland West
(Kariba, Zvimba and Hurungwe. Manicaland (Mutare rural, Mutasa,
Buhera, Chipinge and Chimanimani). Mashonaland Central (Guruve and Mt. Darwin) and Chitungwiza, Mabvuku, Epworth, Waterfalls, Hopley and Budiro in Harare Metropolitan Province. The worst affected district is Tsholotsho where a total of 859 people were left homeless and are currently in a transit camp and an additional 100 households are at risk….
Hon. Members having made noise.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members on my
right, can the Hon. Minister be heard in silence? I think he is making a very important Ministerial Statement
The impact of the wet season including the effects of the tropical depression caused by Cyclone Dineo exacerbated the situation as this has left more than 1 985 people homeless. About 246 human lives were lost due to drowning and lightning strikes. More than 128 people were injured and approximately 2 579 homesteads were damaged. There was extensive damage to about 74 schools, five health institutions, about 70 small and medium dams have breached and extensive damage to road infrastructure.
The urban areas have not been spared either. In Harare Metropolitan Province, the excessively wet season caused urban flooding in Chitungwiza, Epworth, Mabvuku, Budiriro, Hopley and Waterfalls among others. In Old St. Mary’s suburb in Chitungwiza, nine aged houses collapsed and more than 2 500 houses are at risk of collapsing. More than 500 aged houses are at risk of collapsing in Mabvuku.
The affected population in communal, resettlement and urban areas are in dire need of assistance to rebuild their homes, rehabilitation of social institutions as well as recover lost property and livelihoods.
Given the extensive damage following the impacts of the 2016/2017 extremely wet season, a declaration of state of disaster has been recommended for affected communal, resettlement and urban areas in order to mobiles humanitarian assistance from public, private sector, development partners and other well wishers.
The flood disaster is to be managed by the Emergency
Preparedness and Disaster Management Committee under my chairmanship as well as sub-national civil protection structures under the chairmanship of Provincial and District Administrators. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to
thank the Minister for the Ministerial Statement. You were a bit late about it. What I seek to find out Madam Speaker, because this is likely to recur. When the President and the Meteorological Department announced that this year there is going to be normal to above normal rain, it simply means that normal to above, we should have prepared. Were bridged inspected because even up to now we are likely to have more bridges collapsing?
I have been under Gwayi River Bridge, one of the longest and biggest bridges. Its two pillars cracked three years back and as you drive over it now, it has already sagged, the same with Mlivizi River Bridge, one of our biggest bridges. These bridges are not being inspected and they have never been inspected. Can the Minister assure us that in the preparation for these emergencies, they are also inspecting these bridges? Even the dams that are collapsing, it is not because of too much rain. It is because most of these bridges have already been damaged.
They already needed repairs.
I am aware of some of these bridges...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. GABBUZA: I am aware of some of these bridges already needed repairs. Madam Speaker, can the Minister indicate if they are inspecting these bridges and repairing them before they go off, because they are not just collapsing. Most of them or those that have already gone have damages existing which they already had before this emergency. I wish to know if within that they can also institute a programme of inspecting and repairing what has not yet been damaged because we are likely to have more disasters. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Madam Speaker. I appreciate the
Minister’s address to us telling us about the state of disaster, declaring the state of disaster and also highlighting to us regarding the various things that have happened throughout the country. What I wanted to find out from the Minister is that have we got people coming in to assist? For instance, I have seen on TV Red Cross had put up tents and stuff like that for the homeless. I also wanted to find out what package is in place regarding food and water for those that are homeless, besides the Red Cross that has already come in.
I also wanted to find out from the Minister that since the rains are still continuing and we continue to read from the newspapers that the Air Force of Zimbabwe has been rescuing quite a few people, have they increased or put something aside in terms of fuel so that rescue operations can continue? I picked up a sad story in Mberengwa where students are getting food through paper bags being thrown across the river in order for them to continue sustaining themselves. There are people across the river and others on the other side and they do not have anything to help them, so they put the food inside and throw it across. Some of it goes into the water. Can something be done towards assisting those that are in isolation at the moment? I thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Mine is much
to do with clarity Hon. Minister Kasukuwere. You have pointed out that Chipinge is part of an area which has got this challenge in terms of this disaster and I appreciate that. You have to take note that we have this road from Tanganda up to Chiredzi which was badly damaged way before the rains. When the rains came, the road is now terribly damaged and there is need to attend to the road so that you access people within
Chipinge who have become victims as a result of the rains. Hon.
Minister, is there any room for priority in terms of this road from Tanganda to Chiredzi which has been damaged so badly because there is hardly a road now? Thank you.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Minister for his statement and acknowledge the importance of mitigating the disaster that the country is facing. I wanted to find out that in terms of resource mobilisation, we may have donors and other development partners, but I ask this cognisant of the fact that South Africa and
Mozambique may not do much because they may be facing the same challenge. In terms of network links with the other regional countries like Botswana and other countries that have not had the same problem, have we reached out to some of our colleagues in the region? You run to neighbour when you are in dire need like Zimbabwe. Thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I also want to
find out from the Minister. First of all, may I thank the Minister for the statement and for declaring the problem of these floods as a national disaster. Looking at Gokwe South which you have also identified, we have problems where people have not been displaced per se but where the degradation of land in Gokwe urban has become a threat to the whole town. It has been like that for quite some time but now the other areas are no longer accessible. There are roads which have been closed because of these rains which are continuous. Are you also considering it even if there are no people who have been displaced or it is about the roads in the urban?
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Thank you Hon. Minister for the statement that you have given us and showing that the concern you have and also the country has towards its people. I did not hear you speak on the local level. What mobilisation has been done? I heard you talk about the national level, that is what the Ministerial
Statement covers and may be provincial but at local level, we have serious sewage bursting especially in towns and cities. What arrangement is there besides the usual one where the DA and so on are involved? Which are the other people that are going to be involved at local level? I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker. Please allow me to commend the Hon. Minister for coming to this august House to appraise us Members of Parliament of the measures that the Executive is doing to attend to this very alarming and sad state of disaster. I would want the Hon. Minister to advise us whether there are any measures that Government does provide in order to fund or plans to anticipate disasters such as this? This is because indeed, we cannot plan that there will be a cyclone in the long range or issues like that but from time to time, there will be certain acts that are beyond our control. It is my question whether our Government does indeed have in place certain measures so that when we are hit by such calamity, we are able to start ourselves to deal with it before we seek assistance from our neighbours or international partners and so on. I am saddened by the deaths that we have experienced and also by those people who are displaced, who are living under very difficult circumstances and who are in need of rescue.
I represent a constituency that is in an urban area, I am also particularly deeply disturbed by the extent to which these floods have affected urban areas. I am also concerned about the state of planning of physical and urban planning in our country. I say this because I have heard the Hon. Minister announcing before that there are stands that are available to all manner of people, to take and occupy. It is a notorious fact that in a lot of places that have been occupied by people following his call, these areas are not known that they have been previously designated and planned properly in terms of their water reticulation and in terms of drainage. So, I would want to ask the Hon. Minister, if he can assure the august House that human settlements that are being done in Zimbabwe and that are going to be done, are going to be done cognisant of the need for planning in terms of water reticulation and the natural course of water. I say this in particular because Harare is on a water course and most of it is a wet land and I am concerned that with these rains and floods, water tends to take its course and its level. So, I want to find out to what extent it is that the flooding in urban areas, maybe including Chitungwiza is because it is human made and not an act of God necessarily? So, to what extent has it been contributed by human beings that is in the context of going to settle in places where water that was made by God is meant to flow.
So, I would request on wet lands in particular and in terms of planning because we are a country that established a long time ago, at the University of Zimbabwe an honors study programme of Rural and Urban Planning. I think it is extremely sad that we have people who might actually have avoided living there if there was proper planning and the authorities did what they did.
So, Hon. Speaker, I am requesting that and also to learnt my voice to what Hon. Gabbuza said; yes it is a calamity which has befallen us but can the Hon. Minister and his colleagues in Government investigate to what extent it is indeed, that the suffering that has come has been exacerbated or even caused by human beings who have been negligent and also allowed certain nefarious things to happen that end up hitting on us. So, I would want him to investigate the extent to which poor or failure to plan and maintain infrastructure has caused this so that in future we can avoid that suffering. Can there be an investigation to see to what extent we can avoid this and what has actually caused the flooding of homes; are these things that we can prevent? Sometimes the collapse of bridges like Hon. Gabbuza has said, are these things that we can do as a country to prevent certain calamities either hitting us at all or hitting us as hard as they have done.
HON. M. KHUMALO: I stand here to feel sorry for the people that have been affected by the floods but also I want to give advice to the Minister and those involved in the rescue. In Sipepa area for example, which is the hardest hit; the Minister said over 800 people lost their homes. It is a very terrible situation. The Siphepha issue Hon. Speaker is repeating itself. I think around 2008/9, the same incident happened. A lot of people were rescued. The Siphepha area is not a disaster, it is the Gwayi River which when it is flooded, the water goes to the villagers.
Now, those villagers were rescued by Government which took them to
Lupane beyond the river. Government settled them at a place called
Block O, where people were asked to settle there from Tsholotsho but
Government had to let those people, even the Member of Parliament for Tsholotsho, to go back to the same area. Today those people seriously have lost everything, the goats, chicken because this thing has repeated
itself.
Surely, the Minister said they are going to resettle some people. I suggest that when we resettle people, let us not just take them and give them the land but let us also…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon Khumalo! Can I
have points of clarification?
HON. M. KHUMALO: I am trying to clarify the Minister’s statement because he said he is going to resettle. So, I am saying by looking for land to resettle, Government must also go into helping them build houses because surely this is why they go back to those old areas.
Secondly, we are worried as Members of Parliament; I want the Minister to clarify that in Lupane District, before this disaster happened, we lost almost 10 people in various places through floods and we raised this alarm. Not a single Minister came to our place and not even the Provincial Committee for disaster came to us and even today a lot of people were rescued by us in Daluba, Kana Block and so on. We are worried why these things are done selectively. So, we want this Ministry to go all over the country so that we help our people in the same manner.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to add my voice and thank the Hon. Minister for declaring a state of disaster although I would like to make a comment as to particularly the
Tsholotsho/ Siphepha area. It was hit by the rains about three weeks ago and one wonders why it has taken so long to have declared that Tsholotsho area a state of disaster. I am noticing that yes, of course, all other areas have been hit but is special attention going to be given to the
Siphepha area seeing that they are the most hit? Thank you.
*HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have four questions that I need clarification on. When I grew up, we were told that prevention is better than cure. I have a question to the Minister. Which criteria did you use to determine the areas with disaster because you find that in Kuwadzana Extension, homes are flooded now and again but I never heard you talk about this area? So, I wanted to find out what criteria did you use to determine that there is a disaster. To proclaim a disaster, do you see with your naked eyes or the machines that are available to determine the disaster?
Secondly, in the rural areas, people are being settled by the village heads without Government allocating people proper areas. It is an issue that you need to clarify to us because people are being settled in areas that are not suitable for habitation. Can you address that issue so that if the village heads have that power, they should be assisted by people from your office to ensure that settlement is done in a proper area because others are being settled right on the banks of the river. For example, in Gutu, the village head just comes and pegs the settlement for the community. Our human settlements and the patterns should be addressed.
Thirdly, on the issue of building inspectors, those who monitor buildings, bridges, human settlement or even here in urban areas - houses are built anyhow. Is there a department in local authorities that determines whether the place is good for habitation? Some of the homes that are being built are not actually homes but they are time bombs. These can be a challenge and cause disaster even without rain. What we want is for people to have good places to stay.
Fourthly, our friends from China gave us rice, is it not possible for the rice to be diverted to Tsholotsho. The rice has been distributed all over the country but is it not possible for it to be taken to Tsholotsho. China is our all-weather-friend, what else is it doing to assist us with the challenges that we are facing.
HON. M. MPOFU: Thank you very much Minister for this
statement. I heard that there are 1985 people who are homeless. I would like to know where they are housed at the present moment? I also heard that about 246 people died. Is the State giving any assistance to the people who perished? For the 180 that were injured, is Government assisting these people with hospital fees? You mentioned that 74 schools were destroyed, is there any assistance by Government which is going towards those schools and where are these schools? Minister, you mentioned that there are 580 homes which are on risk-of-collapse, is there any evacuation plan on them. Are they built on wetlands or not? Lastly, is there crop damage assessment that is taking place since some crops were washed away?
*HON. TARUSENGA: I want to seek clarification from the
Minister on the issue that at least 10 people have perished along Hunyani and Nyatsime Rivers in Chitungwiza. The reason being that there are people who have been settled there starting from Eye-Court going towards Nyatsime and Dunnotar Farm. No bridges were built, so I want to understand from the Minister when this problem will be addressed.
Secondly, the houses in St Mary’s were built around 1960 and they used clay to build these houses. These houses were approved by council. Now, these homes are no longer conducive for habitation. If the rains that other parts of the country have experienced had been in St. Mary’s, there would not be any homes left. I want to find out from the Minister what measures is Government putting in place to address these issues because it is only a matter of time before we realise that St. Mary’s is no longer in existence.
*HON. MUKWENA: I rise to thank the Hon. Minister who came
with the programme of action to alleviate the national disaster that we faced as a country. My question to the Minister is that, if it were possible that there are committees that are at district level for Civil Protection Unit, since they are on the ground and they are with the people, they could easily render assistance to victims. I will give an example of what transpired in December in Chiredzi when 14 people were swept by the rains. The district Civil Protection Unit did not have 70 litres of fuel to go and pick up the police sub-aqua unit so that they could rescue people that were being affected by the incessant rains. If it were possible, we would want the committees at district level to be resourced so that they can react quickly.
*HON. MACHINGURA: I want to take this opportunity to thank
the Minister for the steps he has taken to lessen the burden of flooding in our country. Firstly, I want to commend the Minister for including Chipinge on the list of areas that need help. I know that his Ministry is trying hard to render assistance to all provinces in the country. As I speak right now, the residents of Chipinge cannot drive to their homes because the roads are impassable. As you might be aware, Chipinge and Chimanimani are situated in a dense forest and as a result, we have the problem of trees falling onto the roads. I urge our local committees to have back up machinery in order to clear these trees so that the roads are passable. I thank you.
HON. MUSANHI: I would like to add my voice by thanking the
Minister on the statement he has delivered. I think it is a very noble thing you have made that you make this statement. As a Member of Parliament for Bindura, I did not hear Bindura in your statement. Most houses in Garikai Township were destroyed by these incessant rains but I did not hear of Bindura in your statement. I think maybe you did not hear about it. Our road to Matepatepa, has been damaged by rains before for quite a long time but right now Minister, if you are going to put any aid into that area you will be able to move it in any direction as the road is badly damaged and needs urgent resuscitation. Having that in mind, I think you need to consider looking at those areas as well Minister.
Thank you very much.
*HON. MUZONDIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to understand from Hon Minister Kasukuwere pertaining to the washing away of homes by flash floods thus promote many diseases especially from overflowing blair toilets as human excrement will be flowing all over the show. I would like to know what plans are in place to avail clean water to the rural populace.
Even in the urban areas, owing to the incessant rains, the water supply pipes are bound to shift thus causing the mixing of clean water and raw sewerage. What plans are in plans to ensure people get clean water and protection from diarrheal and other water borne diseases?
HON. MUDYIWA: I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for
the update on the state of disaster arising from the floods. My concern is on those who have been affected particularly in areas like Gokwe and Tsholotsho who have lost almost everything. Most of them no longer have identification particulars. Are they going to be facilitated to get particulars like birth certificates and National Identification cards considering the fact that the voter registration exercise must be conducted before the end of this year in preparation for the forthcoming elections in 2018? Thank you.
*HON. E. GUMBO: Thank you so much Hon. Kasukuwere for
your report. It is my plea that there are certain areas in the lowveld and Gwanda where flash floods happen; there is a lot of rain and they have a lot of problems. Schools, bridges as well as the road network were damaged. A lot of these rivers are overflowing like Mtshabezi River which comes from the northern part of Gwanda where there are mines and the hospital is across the river in Gwanda town. What should we do?
Members of the CPU are called but it is difficult for them to transport one injured person across the river or all the way from Bulawayo. When you look at the sanctity of human life, it is important that if it were possible there be a foot bridge to enable us to cross with the injured because the bridge on Mtshabezi River is always flooded. Gwanda town is now divided into two – there are those who are accessing services and others are not because of the low bridge at Mtshabezi River which has been under water for several months. If it were possible, it is my plea that they come and put up a foot bridge so that we can use it during emergencies. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Members for their questions, comments of support as well as various advices that we received from them.
Let me start with the question raised by Hon. Gabbuza with regards to constant monitoring inspection and ensuring that our bridges and dams are within our safety regulations. In other words, we will not compromise or not give up and end up causing disasters. I agree with you. I will talk to my colleague the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development with specific regards to the Gwayi bridge as well as some of the bridges that you mentioned. Suffice to say that CPU will come in when there is a disaster but admittedly some of the day to day responsibilities in terms of maintenance are the provinces of competence of our respective ministries and in this particular case, the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
With regards to dams which have given in or given way – yes, if my memory serves me well, from a World Bank report of 2012 which spoke about dam safety conditions in the country. Indeed, quite a number of our dams that have actually collapsed in the past two days were noted and mentioned. I am happy to say that even with that challenge or tragedy happening, the CPU and various authorities are on top of the situation. Going forward, the issue to do with the maintenance and inspection is very uppermost in our minds.
The question raised by Hon. Holder on the level of assistance that is being provided. I want to say just this afternoon; I launched an appeal on behalf of the Government, to the private sector as well as the international community through the UNDP and various embassies, the UNDP Resident Representative attended that press briefing this afternoon at our Munhumutapa Building. We think that this is the step that we must have taken, it is a necessary step so that we mobilise as much assistance as is possible.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I speak, most of these organisations are already on the ground. They have been supporting our communities in Tsholotsho and various other areas which were affected but the appeal that we made this afternoon will ensure that we have more support coming our way because the level of challenge that we are facing has actually grown. Tomorrow we will be travelling to most of these areas, Filabusi and Insiza going around the country with the donors, some of the embassies and various other ministers to assess the situation on the ground so that as we consolidate our appeals process, we are able to capture mere detail of what has transpired, costs and the expected responses that we must give in terms of building and repair work for some of these areas. So I am sure that with the appeal that we have started, besides what Government is also doing which is raising funds which Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo alluded to, we think we will be able to have more funds coming our way for us to attend to these emergencies.
Mr. Speaker, the question from Hon. Mutseyami with regards to the Chiredzi-Tanganda. This road and I agree with him entirely, was affected by the cyclone Eline and we have quite a lot of work which must have been attended to which is ongoing but will now require that we take it on board as part and parcel of the response that we must undertake now. So this road is a priority road and the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development shared with us this afternoon that we need a whooping $500 million to attend to some of the infrastructure that has been lost and that includes this very economically important road from Chiredzi all the way to Mutare. So we will certainly ensure that we discuss with Hon. Dr. Gumbo and make it part of our priority that it must be attended to.
Hon. Mpariwa, thank you very much for your question and like I said earlier on, we launched an appeal process today and I hope that even our neighbours attended the press briefing and part of the meeting. We hope and trust that they will all come on board and do whatever they can in supporting our recovery efforts.
Hon. Mangami, the question you have raised to do with degradation, the landfall at Gokwe just behind the Government Complex; this has been attended to under the Hwange biological corridor programme that is being coordinated by Environmental Management Authority (EMA). However, we are also seeing this problem widening and growing and we will take it on board but this was a matter that was being attended to already under a World Bank funded programme which is run by our Environmental Management Authority (EMA) but it is a major challenge. It is not only in Gokwe where the landfalls have given us a challenge or slides. We have this situation in Bikita where we lost one child and a whole homestead just went under when we had this landfall. Again, this has been occurring around the Chimanimani area.
Hon. Phiri raised a question with regards to the local level involvement in Kadoma. There is a District Civil Protection Unit which is charged with the responsibility of attending to some of the emergencies that emerge at a local level.
The sewage challenge and so forth are being compounded now by the amount of rain that we have received. It has made the ground very wet and this has to an extent contributed to the sewage coming out because it is very wet. We have a lot of water underground and I have no doubt that the local authority will handle this issue. Should it require the support at national level, it will still certainly fall within what we are now looking forward to do as well as in terms of the assistance we are looking forward to.
Hon. Majome raised a very important question to do with the health; what are we doing, the funding that is available. Currently, Hon. Member, we are supporting families to the tune of $100 but this is not sufficient. Beyond that, various NGOs and Government itself have been making food available. I speak with authority with regards to what has been happening to parts of Tsholotsho and parts of the areas including Mt Darwin. We give them food for example mealie-meal, pulses including cooking oil. This was raised by some Hon. Members here.
Beyond this, every Government department is enjoying playing their part and I have in mind the Ministry of Health and Child Welfare. They have been providing support to those amongst our society who depend on various drugs, be they on ARTs, blood pressure and so forth which in many cases have been lost because of the flooding.
On education, we flew with Dr. Dokora to Tsholotsho and we will be travelling again tomorrow. There has been massive integration of schools in schools which have gone under or which have been flooded.
The children have been moved to schools that are within their area and the integration process has been going on very smoothly.
Madam Speaker, Government has also responded…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, I am not Madam Speaker – [Laughter.] –
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker, you look very beautiful, so I thought you were a woman – [Laughter.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, the Government so far with the support from the efforts of Zimbabwe, the police and NGOs have moved in to save our people.
With regards to the question of urban planning my dear sister, I am sure you moved from discussing the disasters and moved a bit into the political terrain. I agree with you entirely in terms of urban planning. There is chaos in Chitungwiza. Those of us who grew up in Chitungwiza, Zengeza 1-4 will attest that there were open spaces that were left to allow for water or rain to flow but all those pieces of land are settled right now. I need not say who has been in charge of those councils, I am sure we all know and what we must do is that we on both sides of the House, need a collective responsibility in ensuring that whoever we second from our political parties to go to council must be men and women who can uphold the responsibility. What we are faced with within the country is men and women who are not up to the task and hence urban planning has fallen below standards that are acceptable.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the human made catastrophe that my dear sister referred to, indeed, I think we have a duty to stop this lie. We will certainly investigate.
Hon. Khumalo raised a question to do with the people in Siphepha; admitted and agreed. The people from Siphepha were moved to block O but they moved back. It is always a difficult proposition when you move these people from their ancestral areas to new areas. They do not find it easy to settle there hence with our CPU and I am aware that there is a meeting this afternoon in Tsholotsho where we are looking for pieces of land or land which has been identified closer to their ancestral homes which will give them access to their fields. They are settled around the Gwayi River area because it is fertile but it is also their ancestral homes but by moving them to places adjacent to where they were, we think they will not do what happened in the past where they abandoned the new settlements in Lupane and went back.
Traditional leadership has also been engaged and we are quite confident that we will make the necessary progress. The cost of building homes and houses if they could go back and rebuild, I am sure they can also build in the new areas. However, as Government, we have committed ourselves to assist these families resettle and build model houses for them to settle and not move back to their old places.
I thank the Hon. Member for raising the question of the ten people who were lost in Lupane. I hope and trust that in future, the Hon. Member must also raise these issues with us to come and say, how come we did not know about this when he knew and decided not to communicate. I am sure as a Member of Parliament, it is his first and foremost duty to inform Government when there are challenges in his area.
Hon. Toffa has raised a question why it takes so long; we were not going to declare this extensive state of disaster just because of Tsholotsho but Tsholotsho matters and as Tsholotsho was suffering, many other areas were also suffering. So, comprehensive studies or work had to be done to understand how many people are affected, which are the areas; hence we have come up with this declaration which is all but encompassing. We did not intend to just only look at Tsholotsho otherwise we would be accused of favouritism. We have to ensure that all the other areas in the country are covered and that is what we have done.
*Hon. Chamisa our Vice President talked about the issue of Kuwadzana. Thank you Vice President. On that issue, I appeal to you – you live in that area and you have councillors. Look at the areas where residential stands are being piled; next to the road. You are the Vice
President of your party. I am now sick and tired of your councillors. May I appeal through you, to go and tell your councillors? Because of your brilliance, you may assist us so that this disaster will not go ahead.
We should resettle in good places. I believe Madyira, you will assist us in this regard.
This is not the only area but there a lot of areas where houses are getting flooded. It is a disaster which is man-made as Hon. Majome indicated. Maybe, if we sit down together and
*HON. KASUKUWERE (spkng): …together and assist one
another with councillors. We believe that we will be able to get things done in a better way. We would want to have a meeting with your councillors so that we can come up with an amicable solution to some of these dishing out of residential stands. You tend to think that I am against councillors but that is not the correct position. Some of their deeds are not very good. You asked me four questions.
There are some village heads that spend their money at beer hall parties. They are given money and then give residential stands to people. No one is allowed to sell land but this corruption is occurring in communal lands. From the district administrators downwards, there are some corrupt cases that are going on. Even in the pastures, people are being resettled as well as in graveyards. Anyone who was at a farm and purchases beer for the village head is allocated a residential stand. It is a problem that we are facing and I intend to talk to my counterpart Hon. Ncube, so that a stop can be put to such practices. It is happening all over as has been observed in the communal lands. What you observed in Kuwadzana also prevails in Gutu. It is a huge task that both of us should work on.
On the issue of the inspections, indeed it is true; some of the houses are built overnight. When Government then says they would want these houses to be demolished, the law then says you are not supposed to destroy them but should go through the courts. They build their homesteads overnight. They come with their bricks and other building materials and then by 4.30 in the morning a three roomed house will have been roofed and this is a wetland. Yes, we may say it is Chinese style but the Chinese have a standard that they meet. This is what has happened all over Harare. That situation applied around the airport area. It does happen but I am appealing to all Members of Parliament to implore our people not to compromise building standards. It is also the duty of councils to enforce council building standards. We are trying to capacitate these councils so that they do not let such corruption go scot free.
On the issue of rice from China, it is being distributed and we have a lot of it. If you want rice at home we can give you Hon. Chamisa. If you do not have sufficient rice we will tell Hon. Mupfumira to give you the rice. Just give us a shout. You are the one who talked about this issue Hon. Madyira (totem).
Hon. Mpofu, thank you for your question. With regards to the housing of our people, especially those who are affected in Tsholotsho, we have, with the support of various NGOs, set up a transit camp which is housing the 859 people. Both men and women are all housed there. We are working 24/7 to ensure that we build proper settlements for them so that family members can be reunited. As it stands, males have their own dormitories and the ladies and our aged have their own various places to stay in including children. However, we think it is very important for us to bring back the family units as soon as possible but currently they are housed in these tents. The State has been assisting them and like I have said, various other NGOs are coming on board.
Those who are injured and those who are sick are being taken care of. We have flown medical support and various other support to ensure that our people are comfortable. Also, schools are being taken care of with regards to the education of our children.
Hon. Tarusenga asked about Harare South. We are working on Harare South and UDICORP is now involved to try and restore order there as well as to ensure that bridges and roads can be built. The settlement, like I have said, these are some of the difficult settlements where you would wake up and somebody is selling pieces of land. But you then get to a stage where you will say, can we honestly kick out the children and their parents from a property that they will have built with their little savings because this land has been sold by a land baron. We have tightened our screws around the land barons and continue to arrest them and put them in prison for their past deeds because we end up being unfair to our citizens. However, we also call upon our citizens not to be duped and not to buy land from people who are not authorised. The land authorities are our City Councils, our Government institutions and in very rare cases, individuals with private properties but those should be verified and certified. We want to call upon our people to desist from buying land from the so called land barons or those who can put pressure.
St. Mary’s 1980, yes, that is an issue that should be attended to. We will look at them and see the current state of the homes and whether they can continue, otherwise if they are a disaster, we must evacuate our people as soon as possible.
Hon. Mukwena, thank you very much for your comments with regards to the budgetary support for our CPU. We are discussing and have been discussing with the Minister of Finance and more support will be given to our CPU for them to attend to some of these challenges.
Hon. Machingura, we will discuss the issue with DDF. Thank you very much, your point is noted.
Hon. Musanhi, Bindura – I spoke to the Hon. Member this morning and he never alerted me to this issue but now that he has said it, we will also bring it up. The road has been like that for quite some time. It is in a state of disrepair and I hope and trust that with funds available we must bring back the Matepatepa Road.
The question to do with water in the rural areas – we already have the WASH programme but we had in the urban centres, the emergence of typhoid but I am happy that we are on top of this situation in urban Harare.
Our dear sister from Mudzi, the Ministry of Home Affairs is part of our CPU. They will do what is necessary to restore people’s identities and the Ministry of Health and Child Care will also do their part to ensure that people’s health is not compromised.
Hon Gumbo you asked about the issue in Gwanda. I have noted it and we are going to talk to DDF and other authorities in the area so that they can deal with the issue raised. I think that answers all the questions that were asked. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move
that Order of the Day, Number 2 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 4 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
SECOND READING: ZEP – RE (MEMBERSHIP OF ZIMBABWE
AND BRANCH OFFICE AGREEMENT BILL [H.B. 9, 2016]
Fourth Order read: Second Reading: ZEP – RE (Membership of Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement) Bill, (H.B. 9, 2016).
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker, I move that the ZEP – RE (Membership of Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement) Bill, (H.B. 9, 2016) be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Tuesday, 14th March, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the House
adjourned at Nine Minutes past Five o’clock p.m until Tuesday, 14th March, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBAWE
Tuesday, 28th February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A WORKSHOP ON THE NEW EDUCATION
CURRICULUM
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that all
Hon. Members of Parliament are invited by the Ministry of
Primary and Secondary Education to a workshop on the New
Education Curriculum. The workshop will be held on Monday, 13th March, 2017 and Hon. Members will be advised of the venue and time of the workshop in due course.
TIME LIMIT ON MOTIONS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also wish to remind Hon.
Members of the Provisions of Standing Order No. 103, relating to the Time Limit on Motions. I, therefore, appeal to Hon. Members to debate motions in time and for the movers of motions to wind up their respective motions within the stipulated 21sitting days. Hon. Members with motions which have exceeded the Time Limit are advised to wind up their respective motions, failure of which the affected motion will automatically fall off the Order Paper and not be reinstated.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers
1 to 9 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE REPORT OF THE
PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS ON THE BILATERAL VISIT TO THE PARLIAMENT OF KUWAIT ON THE
ORDER PAPER
HON. PARADZA: I move the motion standing in my name:
That the motion on the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the bilateral visit to the Parliament of Kuwait, held from 25th to 29th April, 2016, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: I second
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of order is merely to try and wish my very good friend, Hon. Chadzamira for convincingly and resoundingly winning the provincial chairmanship for ZANU PF in Masvingo. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Sibanda, this is not a House of jokes. For all intents and purposes, you are not in the knowhow on the matters that you raise. Therefore, please do not poke your nose where you are not supposed to. Hon. Paradza, can you proceed.
HON. PARADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I will now attempt to do it properly. I move the motion standing in my name:
That the motion on the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the bilateral visit to the Parliament of Kuwait, held from 25th to 29th April, 2016, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: I second.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. This is a very important motion without doubt. It is important because some of us who have been following events have not seen significant change in terms of the practice that was being discussed in that report. However, our worry is that the Minister has been legendary in being absent without official leave. We want to know if there is an assurance – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - Yes, it is a fact. You can go and check your Hansard.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Address the Chair please.
HON. CHAMISA: Sorry Hon. Speaker. The Minister has found this a strange place to be and would there is very strong undertaking by the Minister that he is going to come and give seriousness to the business of Parliament. We may end up restoring this motion but he will not motion himself to this Parliament and it would become another futile exercise. Is there any assurance Mr. Speaker Sir, that the Minister for once, is going to take the business of Parliament seriously, because he has not done so in the past. We have made numerous calls and we have even made efforts to get in touch with the Executive, even the President himself to say, this man is away without official leave (awol). Even in Committees, he does not come. We just want to know if this man has repented, changed and amended his ways to come to Parliament. We need an undertaking that he is a serious official of Government. We cannot just come here to sit and restore motions that are not going to be responded to Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much. God bless you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, we appreciate your observation and the Chair would like to inform you and the august House that the Hon. Minister is alive to the issue and certainly will present himself to answer to the motions. That, he assured me. Thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE REPORT OF THE
PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS ON THE
EXCHANGE VISIT TO THE PALESTINE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. PARADZA: I move the motion standing in my name that the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the exchange visit to the Palestine Legislative Council, held from 15th to 20th May, 2016, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the
Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: I second.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I realise we are restoring a lot of motions on the Order Paper and this is the second motion that the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs is trying to restore on the Order Paper. I am wondering Mr. Speaker, if these motions that we are restoring on the Order Paper have a lot of value to the Zimbabwean population, given the limited time that we have in Parliament. I will say peace Mr. Speaker, we have pressing issues in this country. One such issue is xenophobic attacks in South Africa which I think the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs should take a lead on....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Member, you are being very unprocedural. This motion was tabled before debated and we are following the procedures accordingly.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and good
afternoon. My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, is to do with the request I gave in this House with your acceptance, whereby we requested the Hon. Minister of Transport to come up with a Statement with regards to the condition of the road. I was so specific to mention the condition of the road from Birchnough/Tanganda to Chiredzi, which I mentioned is in such a bad state that it is so urgent to have attention. It was accepted that the speech would be delivered.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am sorry for the Hon. Members who are shouting. The state of the road is bad and you need to appreciate these things, hazvinei neParty. Zvimwe zvacho munafunga zvakapfurikidza.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Member, you are out of order. What you should be debating is the restoration of the motion –
[HON. MUTSEYAMI: Order, you do not argue with the Chair.] – Order, you do not argue with the Chair, please – [HON. CHINOTIMBA:
Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Chinotimba!
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE REPORT OF THE
PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS ON THE VISIT
TO EMBASSIES ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. PARADZA: Mr. Speaker, I move that the motion on the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the visit to embassies, held from 16th to the 19th November, 2016, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper, in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE FIRST REPORT OF
THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS
AND SECURITY SERVICES ON THE IMMIGRATION
DEPARTMENT AT THE FORBES BORDER POST ON THE ORDER
PAPER
HON. CHIWETU: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that the motion on the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on the Immigration Department at the Forbes Border Post (S. C. 20, 2015), which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper, in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE SECOND REPORT OF
THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS
AND SECURITY SERVICES ON THE ATTEMPTED JAIL BREAK
AT CHIKURUBI MAXIMUM PRISON ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. CHIWETU: I move that the motion on the Second Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security
Services on the Attempted Jail Break at Chikurubi Maximum Prison, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper, in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE IMPROVEMENT OF
DIET IN PRISONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. MUSUNDIRE: I move that the motion on the Conditions
in Prisons, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the
Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. D.S SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE SECOND REPORT OF
THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES ON THE MOBILE TELECOMMUNICATION SECTOR
IN ZIMBABWE ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I move that the
Second Report of the Portfolio Committee on Information
Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services on the mobile telecommunication sector in Zimbabwe, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament of Zimbabwe be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 72.
HON. MLILO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker, I move that Order of the Day, Number 17 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: Mr. Speaker, I move the motion
standing in my name that this House conveys its profound gratitude to
His Excellency, the President, R. G. Mugabe for addressing a Joint Sitting of Parliament on the State of the Nation.
Expresses its commitment to and support for the views contained in his address and that a respectful address be presented to His
Excellency, the President, informing him of the sentiments of the House.
HON. MLILO: Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Mutseyami zvibate. Thank
you, I second.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mlilo, can you be procedural please.
HON. MLILO: I second.
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: Mr. Speaker Sir, initially I would like to thank the President of Zimbabwe, His Excellency Cde. R. G. Mugabe for the presentation of the progressive State of the Nation Address; in his address the President talked about the introduction of measures to promote local content requirements. It is a welcome move by Government as it ensures that the ZIM ASSET programme continues to be successful as well as the Ten Point Plan which as you know talks about the maintenance of economic growth, job creation, value addition and beneficiation.
His Excellency the President indicated that Government is geared towards increasing local production and skills development for a sustainable and competitive supplier base for all commodities. The SI 64, 2016 is one example of policy aimed at improving local production capacity. Government has always been the main supporter and promoter of food security in this country. It is important to note that it continues to support the people each year in all seasons. About 300...
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MUNENGAMI: The motion which is being debated by
Hon. Simbanegavi is about the State of the Nation by the President, but unfortunately most of the Members of Parliament on the other side are now moving outside, yet you always say that it is important for Members of Parliament to sit down as you can see they are just moving out. I thank you.
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, about 300
metric tonnes of maize was imported and distributed through the GMB depots and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. It is a noble gesture as people will have food while they engage in the current agricultural season. The availability...
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: The Hon. Member is reading.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are allowed to refer to your notes, please continue Hon. Member.
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: Thank you for the protection Mr.
Speaker Sir. The availability of inputs such as maize seed, fertilisers and fuel through command agriculture for both irrigable and nonirrigable land has seen the current cropping season looking promising towards a good harvest. As Members of Parliament, I think we should also take it upon ourselves to educate our constituents on the importance of small grain programmes as well as other cash crops to create a balance between food availability and economic empowerment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, our development partners who support the Government’s commitments in food security provided more than 25 000 metric tonnes of seed this season; I thank them for such support. Livestock production for milk, beef and hides has improved this year indicating industrial growth. In his address, the President focused more on agriculture because it is the season that we are currently in as well as economic growth. The mining sector is significantly growing and doing well. However, there is need to have a more comprehensive and organised structure of small scale miners to avoid leakage of precious minerals into the parallel black market thereby disadvantaging the mainstream economy. Parallel markets in the mining industry hinder a guaranteed fair tariff. The country has recorded production increases in gold. platinum, coal, chrome and diamonds. There is need to ensure that the mining industry remains afloat. It is essential to craft policies and strategies that foster growth and transparency in the mining sector.
The Special Economic Zones continue to promote good business through increased trade, increased investment and effective administration locally and regionally. However, there is serious need for more employment creation opportunities for young people - promotion of informal sector businesses through the facilitation of loans to Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs), especially those owned by the youths and women. The President indicated that a micro-finance bank would
be introduced under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises. This is a welcome and eagerly anticipated move as it will go a long way to improve local production using local resources. Government should continue to promote investor friendly measures to boost confidence of investors through effective corporate governance and policy consistency. I appreciate that Government has always strived to strengthen good trade relations.
I therefore hope that the foreign investors, business community and labour sectors will also operate in good faith to support the
Government’s efforts. The President, in his speech, highlighted the importance of financing women’s projects and business activities. I hope that Government will seriously follow up on this promise and commit to creating a specific fund for women in business. Women participate in all the sectors of the economy, therefore their access to capital ensures a strong and sustainable economy. The micro-finance bank should be fully financed, resourced and decentralized to all areas in the country so that women from all levels, especially those in the rural areas can apply for the loans successfully.
It is also important to note that the President takes special note of the high levels of gender based violence in our country. The police and the courts have to take a stronger stance against gender based violence in domestic set-ups as well as educational and employment places. There has been a high rate of reports of abuse of girls in tertiary institutions for good grades. There are reports of women being beheaded or strangled by their spouses or boyfriends. There should be a multi-sectoral approach to gender based violence. It is my hope that this will be taken seriously. Rapists, murderers, child molesters and domestic violence perpetrators should be severely sentenced. All of us, including the churches, communities and political leaders should fight against gender violence.
This brings me to the issue of health and health services as indicated by the President in his State of the Nation Address. This a critical issue …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Holder and your two
colleagues there, you either are here or out.
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: I was speaking on the issue of health and health services. It is good that Government is keenly focused on national health provision. Child mortality for children under the age of 5 years has gone down over the years due to improved child nutrition and good immunization programmes in rural areas. However, in recent months, statistics of women dying during child birth have increased.
Some of the complications could have been treated and prevented. There is need to put up more clinics in remote areas as well as improve road networks for better transportation to referral clinics. I want to categorically thank the President as well as Government for the continuous provision of anti-retrovirals, the constant research and review of HIV/Aids drugs and regimens that has seen a reduction of HIV/Aids related deaths and transmission to unborn babies.
I agree with His Excellency, the President that the supply of electricity has improved a lot in this country. Load shedding is almost zero now. We thank Government’s efforts for such good work. May it continue to be so, as electricity is essential in agriculture, health, education and mining. In fact, electricity is a basic need.
I now come to the issue of education. The President talked about the introduction of STEM in Primary and Secondary education. It is a good move as more young people have become more interested in mathematics and science subjects as well as engineering and technical subjects. It is a good foundation for industrialization and business development. Zimbabwean graduates are recognised for knowledge and skill at both the regional and continental levels and this is due to
Government’s efforts.
Zimbabweans are hard working people and His Excellency, the President thanked them in his speech for their resilience against all manner of economic hardships and for showing national pride and unity. As Members of Parliament, we should continue to strive for peace and tranquility in our country. In his closing remarks, the President also prayed for good rains this season. The Lord has heard his prayers and as always, the Almighty listens to his chosen and rains have come in abundance. I wish greater life to all Zimbabweans and I hope that water harvesting strategies will be initiated to ensure that this entire God given resource will not go to waste. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
+HON. MLILO: I am going to debate using my mother tongue for the benefit of my constituents. I would like to thank the President of the State for a job well done on his State of the Nation Address. In his speech, he highlighted the issue of El-Nino and I am happy that the
Government that we have, has set up so many ways to fight the drought. I am also happy that so many people were given food such as maize and they were not only giving to those who are faced with drought. I know that the Government that we have is a God given Government that is able to support everyone in the country. When you go right round the country to different constituencies, you will realise that most of the things that are thrown away as rubbish are things that are expensive. This is a sign that people are able to get things that can sustain them. I also want to highlight on the issue of mining. Most of the artisanal miners I know came forth after the laws that were in place by the President of the State. The artisanal miners were given an opportunity to mine gold. Those are the minerals that are assisting the economy of the country. In my own view, I know that the minerals, especially gold that is coming from the artisan miners - Hon. Labode please stop disturbing me.
I also want to touch on the issue of peace. We have to take note that in our country, the President has put up what is called competent police force. The police men that we have are able to maintain peace in the country. The soldiers that we have in the country are also able to maintain peace and this is one of the things that has managed to improve our industry especially the tourism industry. Most of the people now come to visit the Victoria Falls. The tourism industry has also increased a lot. The Government of President Mugabe has been able to put up the big airport that we have in Victoria Falls. We have visitors that are coming especially from outside the country.
There are some tourists who come to see some of the birds that have been discovered in Zimbabwe which are not common in other African countries. The money that we get from the tourism industry will go a long was in improving the economy of the country. One other thing that I am also happy about is the way that the Government, through the President did on the issue of women rights. There is nothing that we can say in this country without touching issues to do with women rights. There is no one in this country who came without having a mother. The only person who has pure love is a mother. The President put up different laws that support women, for example, the domestic laws. I am directing this to people who are seated on the other side of the House. I know that most of them love to beat up women but when you go to different police stations, you will realise that every police station has a victim friendly unit.
They put up this unit so that many people who are abused through domestic violence are able to be assisted. So many people commit that crime. We urge that they be locked up in jails for such crimes. I also take note that the major reason why the Government had to put up the law on domestic violence is to protect women. Again, when you look at the issue of the lives that are lost when women are giving birth, most of the times when you go to the hospitals, you meet some nurses who are not friendly, who victimise those who come to deliver babies in their hospitals.
There is also a special instrument, Statutory Instrument 64 that was brought up by the Government of Zimbabwe that we have. This statutory instrument is meant is for those who are opposing the Government or who want to bring in foreign laws and want to apply that to the Zimbabwean situation. The Government, through the Ministry of Industry and Commerce brought up this statutory instrument. Those who are against the Government and those who are against the improvement of the nation went to the borders and demonstrated but the Government managed to fight that. This shows that statutory instrument is actually working. The companies who are doing production through manufacturing, if you go to Mutare, there is a company that produces cooking oil or those who are producing mealie- meal are actually functional.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order?
THE TEMPORARY. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the State of the Nation
Address is very important. I am quite surprised by the Hon. Members of ZANU PF who are leaving the House first before they are told of the direction the country is taking because the Head of State have spoken. Some of them are still going outside Mr. Speaker Sir; you have to tell them that they represent people. So it is important that they represent people when you are here. I do not know what other business they are going to do out there when they were elected by the people to represent the people here. Mr. Speaker, can you please talk to the ruling party members of Parliament to represent people and respect the State of the Nation Address. Thank you.
THE TEMPERARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. Point
of order sustained. Oder, Hon. Members I think there is a lot of sense in what the Hon. Member has said and it is incumbent upon us from members from my right to make sure that we remain in the House and listen to the debates. Even if you have nothing to offer but it pays if you listen, tomorrow you might be wiser.
+HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MARIDADI: Point of order?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MARIDADI: My point of order is that I heard what Hon. Mliswa said but as Members of Parliament, we are allowed to say what was presented was nonsense and it is allowed for ZANU PF to walk out if they do not agree with the speech.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please, Hon. Maridadi,
the Speaker has already commented on that there is no point of order. There is no point of you standing up and try to make some speech.
+HON. MLILO: I was still saying that there are manufacturing companies who have managed gain so much profit especially after the statutory instrument was implemented. We will realise that so many people were able to gain employment. We want to congratulate the Government for such a good job that they did. I also want to take this opportunity to touch on the issue to do with farming.
The Government has done a sterling job on this. The President agreed to the setting up of the command agriculture which was used as the plan of action for farming in this country. We also want to thank our living God for giving us the rains. I would like to say that command agriculture has been overwhelmingly successful and, the ideas of our ZANU PF Government have actually worked. All the ideas that they have; you will realise that they are trying to fight against drought. There is no nation that will survive with drought and the Government has put up different ideas as a way of fighting against drought and when we get to harvest time, so many people will be able to benefit from that. I always meet my friends for example, Hon. Toffa whom I have seen going to her farm to get maize from there. Government prioritises the issue of farming so that people are able to fight against drought.
I also would want to touch on the issue of ZESA. The days when we used to have load shedding are over because long back, we used to hear stories like food going bad because of load shedding. So many people have highlighted the issue of too many potholes. I know that there are a few people who acknowledge the improvement on availability of electricity. We will again realise the coming up of the Dema Diesel Plant which has also helped to ease the problem of the load shedding. Some of the Members of Parliament, especially those who are quiet, know that what I am saying is very correct and most of you are looking so smart because we no longer have any load shedding and you are able to iron your clothes.
In conclusion, I would like to touch on the issue of education. When it comes to education, the Government did a sterling job. I want us to take note of the fact that, there is no province without a university and this is a sign that the Government is prioritising education. This is why so many people in Zimbabwe are educated. That is why even amongst our Members of Parliament, we have doctors, lawyers and professors - for example, one of the Hon. Members from the opposition, Hon. Chamisa. This is a sign that education is one of the most important things in our country and the Government is trying by all means to see that everyone is able to get education without any discrimination. I would like to urge Members from the opposition party to clap hands, especially when we are saying things that are valid. I would like to thank the job that was done by the Government. Some of the Members, for example Hon. Prince managed to get education which was brought by the President and we need to acknowledge and applaud the President when he is doing such good things. I would like to thank and applaud the Government for the good ideas that they are putting in place as a way of trying to improve the economy of the country.
On the issue of potholes, which is a day to day thing that is being highlighted, we have to take note that they are not brought about by the President, but some of the things are due to nature.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A BREAKFAST MEETING
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. I would like to
make this announcement. “ Please join us for a breakfast meeting for the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Industry and Commerce and the business community on Wednesday, 1st March, 2017 at 07.30 a.m. to
09.30 a.m. at the Meikles Hotel. We look forward to welcoming you all
Hon. Members there.”
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. I
want to start by thanking hon. Simbanegavi and Hon. Mlilo for their very important motion. You are aware that, the most important thing in any nation is the view and perspective of a leader of that nation. In our situation, you can clearly tell that the views of the President reflect on the situation on the ground. But, what is clear is that, from the State of the Nation that we got from President Mugabe, that State of the Nation is actually indicative of the actual state of our nation.
I say so because you do not need a speech of the President to know how the people are living in the country. All you need to do is to go out in the street, go out into the villages, go out into the rural communities and ask people how they are surviving. The state of the nation is better stated by the situation of our rural communities who have challenges with access to basic necessities who have problems with access to issues of food and issues of good roads to make sure that they can access one place or another.
Hon. Speaker Sir, the state of the nation can only be articulated by your workers. Go and ask the workers, they will tell that the state of the nation is such that companies and factories are closing. The state of the nation is such that, you go and ask those who are working, they have gone for seven, eight or nine months, you name it; whether it is in the city council or even in the private sector, companies cannot pay workers their salary. There is simply no decent wage. That is the state of the nation. You go and ask the state of the nation and the pensioners will tell you that they have not received their pensions. In fact, their pensions were eroded away because of our migration from one currency to another. That is the state of the nation.
The state of the nation is better articulated by the War Veterans who will tell you how they are struggling in an independent Zimbabwe to have a decent wage and to have a decent salary. Our War Veterans are living a miserable life. They are living under squalid conditions and I can tell you that War Veterans have a serious challenge in this country.
They have not been catered for…
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The
Vice President of the opposition party, my young brother, we want to hear what he is saying but he is the same person who is questioning why War Veterans were given money. It is painful to hear someone talk about this issue and yet the party that he leads does not recognise war veterans. If they want us to vote for them, I am sorry, we will not vote for them. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order! Hon. Members. Hon. Chinotimba, what you have said does not need a point of order. We will give you an opportunity to debate.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for that
intervention. I was just indicating that it needs no rocket scientist to tell you that the state of the nation is such a sorry state of circumstances. You need to go and ask your war veterans; our war veterans, how they have not been able to secure funding for their own children. There is no country that can ever survive without looking after its own veterans.
The United States of America looks after their war veterans. The
United Kingdom looks after their war veterans but us as a country… *HON. MATANGIRA: Mr. Speaker Sir, we are debating about
the President’s State of the Nation Address. My point of order is that we should not delve into issues that you were actively involved in by saying that the war veterans are unable to send their children to school. Which war veterans failed to send their children to school? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. Hon.
Members, if the Chair makes a ruling, let us respect the ruling. If
anyone has concerns over the debate that is going on, you are free to debate later on, not to continue giving point of orders.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Once again, I want to thank you and also thanking Hon. Matangira for the realisation that indeed, we must all together as political parties; as Members of Parliament work to achieve the common goal for which our liberation struggle was waged. We want to make sure that our war veterans have a fair life. We want to make sure that our war veterans have got pride of place in terms of our remuneration we are giving them.
The state of the nation is such that we have not looked at the total number of war veterans. Up to now, we are still auditing to find who is a genuine war veteran and who is not. I think that state of the nation is indicative of how we have neglected our war veterans. We should know our war veterans in every community, countryside and in every province. Our war veterans are supposed to be spillers and symbols of significance and of our importance as a nation.
This is where I must say Mr. Speaker Sir; the state of the nation is so sorry that the revolution is now devouring its own fathers. Not only that, we have even gone to the extent of having war veterans when they are demonstrating, we teargas them. We throw canisters on them; real war veterans who fought for the liberation of this country – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – It is a serious issue Mr. Speaker Sir because it tells you the state of the nation. When the fathers of the revolution begin to cry, what will happen to the children and the sons of the revolution? Those who did not participate in the revolution, if they are seeing the fathers cry, it tells you that we have begun to squander and destroy the tree of the revolution. This is the state of the nation.
The state of nation; is when you begin to see even the state of our roads – go to our road users. Ask them how many accidents have been caused on account of the nature and state of our roads. That is the state of the nation. The state of nation is going to be told by people in Tsholotsho and Lupane, who have had problems of floods; this is the state of the nation and we have not been able to help them as a country.
The state of the nation Mr. Speaker Sir, is being told by factories that are not operating in Bulawayo; intuthu ziyathunqa is not there. The factories are not operating because the state of the nation is such that we have not paid attention to things that matter – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
For a long time, the state of the nation is such that we concentrate on politics at the expense of economics. We have been focusing too much on slogans at the expense of uniting our people to move forward. We have become perennial people who are preoccupied with factions within political parties, forgetting that we have factors to make sure that our country moves forward. We want to do down that one. We want to do down that other. That is not what we want. The state of the nation Mr. Speaker is not a good state of the nation.
Go to the doctors; ask them what the state of the nation is all about.
The state of the nation is so sorry that the doctors cannot be catered for. They cannot even attend to our hospitals – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – That is the state of the nation. Go to the nurses, they will tell you that they cannot even administer a paracetamol - that is the state of the nation. When pregnant women are being asked to come to hospital with their own water and blankets, that is the state of the nation.
Hon. Speaker Sir, the state of the nation is so sorry that we have a problem that we need to solve as a country and as a people. The state of the nation can be told by the Dzamaras. When you go and ask the Dzamara family – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – they will tell you that they do not have one of their own. They will tell you that they cannot even account of a citizen for a citizen, after 1980 independence, internally displaced persons. That is the state of the nation.
The state of the nation is such that it will tell you that when you go into our provinces, they will tell you that they have never received any support from the Government in terms of infrastructure to make sure that our country is better than what it is supposed to be. The state of the nation is in the schools, where you have a whole Minister of Government trying to tear apart a curriculum which has been serving this country so well – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – That is the state of the nation; where you have a Minister who just wakes up on a drunken stupor, he wants to change a national curriculum. He has no basis for changing that national curriculum. What does he do, he wants to introduce alien concepts into our education. I want to give you one secret Mr. Speaker Sir and Hon. Members would know…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
Hon. Chamisa, there is a workshop on this curriculum. So, let us not pre-empt what we are going to discuss there.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am so guided, I know there is a workshop on Monday.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: On a point of order. My point of order is that Hon. Chamisa said drunken Minister. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
Hon. Chamisa, may you withdraw the word stupor?
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I withdraw that
humbly. In fact, my intention was not to indicate that the Minister is drunk, but that it is the stupor. I hear you and I withdraw that Hon. Speaker Sir. I was condemning the stupor and not the Minister. I just want to say the State of the Nation is ably told, if you go into the high density suburbs, a neighbour cannot even visit their neighbours because the roads are so tattered and torn. You have the sewer system, it is so shambolic and that is the State of the Nation. It tells you that the centre can no longer hold. We cannot come here as Hon. Members of Parliament and continue to preside over an economy, a Government and administration that is so distant from the ideals of the liberation struggle.
What was the liberation struggle all about? The liberation struggle was about one man one vote, the sovereignty of the people, the dignity of a people, the people of Zimbabwe and that is what we want. Let us go back to the ideals of the liberation struggle. To do that, we must not repeat the mistakes of 2013, of having a disputed election. Let us not have the mistake of having disputed elections. How do we have agreed elections in this country? There are two things Hon. Speaker Sir.
Number one - let us call for a national dialogue from all political parties and all national stakeholders. Yes, President Mugabe, President Tsvangirai and all the other presidents; let us talk about how we are going to develop our country and the national dialogue to think about the tomorrow that we want to see for our country, so that you are not alienating. This is no longer about partisan and political parties. It is about our nation and our generation and the future generation to be served. Let us come together black, white, yellow, pink, Ndebele, Tonga and Shona. Let us unite the Vendas and look forward to say, how do we build our country? We need a national dialogue.
The second issue which is my suggestion as a resolution to move forward is, let us come together and agree on the nature, character and the extent of elections we want to have in Zimbabwe. We should not have another disputed election because our crisis is a crisis of leadership.
It is of governance. We do not want to destroy the legacy of the liberation war heroes who fought to liberate this country. We need to build on that legacy and how do we do that? Let us come together Hon.
Speaker Sir...
THE TEMPORARYSPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. You are
left with 2 minutes.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you. Two minutes is actually too much
Hon. Speaker Sir. I am just concluding. Let us have one credible Voters Roll in this country so that we are all agreed on that as a way of resolving the State of the Nation. Number two is, let us make sure that we go biometric in voting so that we resolve all the other issues that have caused problems. Thirdly, we need to do is have a framework that is agreed upon in terms of removing all the technical people who are partisan in the conducting of ZEC as a board that manages elections.
We need to have equal access by political parties to media so that we are able to see who is saying what to the people of Zimbabwe and do away with a partisan approach in terms of the media. We need to have underwriters like SADC and the United Nations so that they are able to underwrite the elections in Zimbabwe. We agreed on that election and what do we need to do? Let us deal with people who always thrive on stealing elections and coming here without the mandate of the people. I know them and we do not want to mention them. They are not wanted in their constituencies but when they are here, they want to appear larger than life, and this is why they are not able to do anything.
Hon. Speaker Sir, we need to have free and fair elections and a truth and reconciliation programme so that we are not revenging. We are not looking at the past but we just want to say this far and no further in terms of affecting people’s rights so that we are able to unite. I want to thank you for listening and for giving me the time just to contribute.
This is the State of the Nation. Thank you very much. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. Thank you Hon.
Chamisa. Let me clarify on the invitation or breakfast that I had earlier on read to you. I am informed that it is only the Portfolio Committee on
Industry and Commerce to attend this.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate on the State of the Nation Address, also known as
SONA. Let me thank Hon. Simbanegavi for having moved this motion. It is not in dispute that His Excellency Cde. R. G. Mugabe is the
President of the nation, that he was democratically elected and he is the CEO of the Republic of Zimbabwe, if we have to use the corporate language. It is equally not in dispute that failure for the country and the economy to suffer, the buck stops with him. It is equally not in dispute that the Ministers in Cabinet are appointed by him to perform his vision.
It is also not in dispute that failure to perform, they must be reassigned.
I want to touch on the ZIM ASSET which is a programme which was initiated by the Government to ensure that the welfare of the Zimbabwean people at large transforms. It is also not in dispute that any programme must be reviewed from time to time to see that it is assessed whether it is doing well or not. ZIM ASSET has not been assessed. I speak with authority being a Member of Parliament after the 2013 elections, where I was in support of ZIM ASSET.
I was a member of the ruling party as a Member of Parliament and believed that it was important for us to move with that programme and the manifesto that we had sold to the people. It is without question that I also supported ZIM ASSET. I still support ZIM ASSET if it is performing and not when it is not performing. Willowvale Motor Industries is a good example of us making our cake grow and equally eating from it. Members of Parliament decided, through the Executive not to buy cars from a State owned car manufacturing, which is a total inconsistency in terms of what ZIM ASSET was about.
ZIM ASSET was about building the local industry or you can call it domestic resource mobilisation. We missed an opportunity. Cars which came in were not manufactured in Zimbabwe, which means employment and foreign currency was equally exported against a background of production not happening. So, you have a situation where you are exporting jobs and foreign currency but you are not earning foreign currency which certainly leads us to the situation that we are in of a liquidity crunch. The bond notes must not be blamed that they are here. It is how they have come to be here, that we must look at; it is because of failure and indiscipline on the part of Government to stick to its Manifesto, the policy that it would have said it would do.
I want to say this Mr. Speaker Sir, sanctions are an old story, and corruption has superseded sanctions. Corruption has superseded sanctions, the State of the Nation Address clearly; the President is very clear in terms of zero tolerance on corruption. Some of us who are disciplined in nature will always follow what the President says. We were loud about people being corrupt and for them to be brought to book but instead we were fired from the parties that we were in because we followed what the President had said that there should be zero tolerance on corruption – just by bringing it up, you are expelled. No wonder why my colleagues on the left side are quiet on corruption because they know that they will be expelled like me and it will be very difficult for them to come back to Parliament like I did.
So, the party which is the Government of the day has had policy inconsistency where you talk about ZIM ASSET, our industry growing - that does not happen that is a policy inconsistency. Even those who want to put money are watching what you are doing and they realise that you cannot even stick to the things that you say you will do. There is no institution that will put in money when you do not stick to that.
If anything, Mr. Speaker Sir, we have been reduced to a VAT economy where the Minister, I think dreams about which sector he should come up with in terms of the VAT. Of late it was the meat VAT but he rescinded on it to show that he is under pressure to raise money through VAT. We cannot be a VAT economy; we must be an economy that produces. You even want to VAT meat, what can you VAT, what value addition is on a cow? It is slaughtered. Fortunately, he rescinded on that after members of Parliament and I must say Hon. Zindi was one of them who brought the issue up.
So, there is absolutely no idea, no clue as to where the money is going to come from. I would like to support Hon. Chamisa’s point in terms of the fact that the state of the economy must be based on what is on the ground. Members of Parliament are underfunded; they cannot even get to their constituencies, it was not addressed. There are three pillars of the State, Parliament, the Legislature being one, representing people - has not been able to execute its duties; which mean whatever we have talked about here is not coming from a well informed view, and it is more of the social media that we are picking up. Instead of us being well funded, going back to the people and in terms of the Government policy which is there on the CDF which I think is critical for the Members of Parliament to be visible and to augment and support Government policy; that money is not there.
So, Members of Parliament who are supposed to represent people have not been able to represent the people through Government policy because if they are given a CDF, they are then able to complement
Government’s effort. For example, if there is no borehole in an area, that CDF can be used to dig a borehole. By so doing, we are complementing Government effort, we have not been able to do that. So, I am equally disturbed by the failure or maybe the President was mis-informed about the performance of Parliament; it is non-performing. It is a worrying factor which has got to be considered if we are to move forward. We have the aspect of equitable distribution of wealth; the resources in
Manicaland where there are diamonds are not found in Matabeleland South neither in Matabeleland North, yet all the people from both provinces are Zimbabweans. Why can they not benefit from the resources this country has? You have a situation where one province is richer than the other province, so when people move from one province to the other, they think they are getting they are getting into another country yet we are in one country.
The issue in terms of the resources being equitably distributed is something which I think has got to be revisited through the indigenisation Empowerment Act which empowers the resource in the community to then ensure that the people in that community benefit. The Community Ownership Trust, let us review what have they done to change the welfare of the people in these areas; absolutely nothing. There has not been accountability in terms of how these resources are done. Members of Parliament who are in these areas where there are so many resources cannot even benefit from them. The whole idea of having the chiefs to also be the custodians or to superintend over that, also has loopholes, is to do with capacity. They are dealing with the man and women who understand business. With due respect, I think we all have our roles to play and I am not saying the chiefs do not understand business but it is an aspect of comprehending issues – are they really representing people in the manner that they should?
If you look at Manicaland, the chiefs in the area, what do they have, nothing and yet they are the custodians of the Community Ownership Trust. It just shows that there needs to be far review on that in terms of the performance of the C.O.T’s. I was hoping that the State of the Nation Address would be able to look into some of these initiatives which Government brought about to see whether they are working or not. A review is certainly needed in terms of some of these.
There is also an issue of the indigenisation policy – policy inconsistency. The Minister, Hon. Zhuwao says one thing, the Minister of Finance says the other thing, and the monetary authority says the other thing. This is one Government, there is no opposition in that Government, it is all ZANU PF but they behave as if they are opposition within the governing party. So, to me what are they really doing in Government? They then expect to labour the President, to issue a statement overriding Hon. Zhuwao’s statement, Hon. Chinamasa’s statement, Dr. Mangudya’s statement. I am just trying to prove to you the work the President has to do, but he does not have to do the work, he can make it easier for himself by reshuffling the Cabinet and ensuring that competent people are appointed
Mr. Speaker Sir, ZANU PF has got a lot of competent people who can be Ministers, some are young and vibrant but they have not been given the opportunity. The State of the Nation Address, you cannot ignore the performance of the Cabinet of the day. Cabinet is responsible for the implementation of the policies that Government brings on board.
So, you can see pretty well that the Cabinet has not been performing. Equally; there was no mention of a reshuffle where we believe that a new broom sweeps clean.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you have the issue of the SDGs, where are we as a nation? MDGs are done and SDGs are there. There are 17 of them.
How do you dovetail the SDGs in what you are doing as a Government? There was no mention of that whatsoever, which means that we are not part of the global village? We are on our own. These SDGs are key in terms of Zimbabwe being at the same level. They are key in terms of us being a part of them.
I want to equally talk about the issue on unemployment. I totally agree with Hon. Simbanegavi that energy has improved. Energy has improved in the households and not in the industries. There is no industry. To me industry is what drives the nation. It is not our houses. We have no production happening in our houses. To me we were supposed to see industry taking off and producing. By having to produce then we can thank – the reason why we have so much electricity is because there is no industry. The day there is industry we will not have electricity. It is important that Bulawayo industry takes off. That was the hub of industry. When you go there, it is a sorry state. It is no longer Bulawayo that it used to be. We used to go to Bulawayo knowing very well that we will get everything that we want. Bulawayo has become another province belonging to South Africa because everything you see there is coming from South Africa. So, what are we producing as Zimbabweans?
The aspect of the war veterans is key. Thirty seven years after independence we are still debating and talking about the welfare of the veterans of the struggle, that is unheard of. We are hoping that those who were in the struggle look after each other but it seems they are failing to look after each other, so there are calls for a certain generation which respects the founding principles of this country – there has got to be some transformation in terms of moving forward as a country. We cannot say we are moving yet we are not. It requires serious transformation and respect of the veterans of the struggle so that we are able to respect them because these are issues where our generation will be haunted by them. We do not want to be haunted by things we do not know. We never went to war. We expect the Executive to move with speed in addressing the welfare of the war veterans.
I support Hon. Chamisa on that and it has absolutely nothing to do with you belonging to a party. It has everything to do with you being Zimbabwean, understanding why we are where we are, how we got where we are and that is what it is at the end of the day. There is no party in this country that has a monopoly of the war veterans. It is important that we want those that believe that they have the monopoly of the war veterans to behave so, but their behaviour is totally the opposite of them saying that they are a revolutionary party and that they respect the war veterans. Instead they tear-gas the war veterans under the same Government where you have a Minister and a Commissioner General of Police who is a war veteran tear-gassing his fellow war veterans.
Our question was, were they really at war together? It is an embarrassment, humiliation and I was hoping that in the State of the Nation Address, His Excellency brings some calm to this situation. It is something which I must say that the party that is in power must be warned that 2018, the war veterans are not there. They are for Zimbabweans - for what they fought for - multiparty democracy, oneman one-vote and the biggest reform that has happened in 2018 is that the war veterans will be for everyone and they will not be for the ruling party. I thank you.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Firstly, I would want to say
congratulations to President Mugabe for turning 93 years old. Happy birthday Gushungo! I am grateful for the speech that the President delivered to this august House. I will start with the issue of infrastructure which is important, especially in Harare and other major cities of Zimbabwe because of the state of roads that we now have. We do not have sufficient water in most cities. We do not have good sewerage systems and our road networks are deplorable. If you were to go round in the suburbs in Harare, you would observe that the majority of the tarred roads are no more. This is an important issue. They were damaged by the rains. The responsible Ministers for the repair of such infrastructure should heed the President’s call because he has ordered that these amenities be attended to. The problem that we have is that the Ministers who are delegated to perform these tasks are not performing.
The eastern part of Harare has no water. We are aware that more than $140m was borrowed to ensure that there is water in Harare. The $140m is almost finished but there is no water in Harare. These issues should be attended to so that there is improved service delivery and a better way of life for the citizens of Harare. The blame lies squarely on the Ministers. The President would have played his part.
He also talked about irrigation schemes. We have water in abundance this year. God heeded our prayers and we have sufficient rains. Command agriculture was introduced and the majority of people ploughed but the problem we have is the lack of water harvesting techniques. The responsible Ministers should come up with measures to ensure that we have dams developed and we should have more inland dams to harvest this water.
We need weirs like the one in Beatrice when cross Mupfure River.
This is not a dam but just a weir. It ensures that Mupfure River perennially has water and people are able to irrigate. It enables us to do our agriculture through irrigation from January to December. We ask the responsible Ministers to perform so that we are guaranteed in that regard.
Our leadership urged us to go back to constituencies to go and do our work. The problem that we face is that we have nothing to give to the people in our constituencies. There is no Constituency Development Fund (CDF). If this CDF were to be availed we will be able to go there and work with the people. The parastatals that we work with as Members of Parliament like ZESA, they tell you that they have no transformers and power lines. ZINARA tells you that that they do not have bitumen tar and they cannot do anything for the roads. It would have been most helpful if Members of Parliament were given their CDF so that meaningful work is done and our leaders do not castigate us.
How do you expect me to work in my constituency when there is no CDF? We urge that CDF be disbursed to Members of Parliament. Let us agree as Members of Parliament that whenever the budget is going to be passed, we do not pass it without an input on CDF because it is important for the development of constituencies. You then hear of Members of Parliament being accused of stealing some of these CDF funds due to poverty. So we urge that the CDF funds be disbursed so that they are used in a normal manner. If we were not to mention this, we would be leaving a lot of stones unturned. His Excellency - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER [HON. DZIVA]: Order, order,
Hon. Members. May the Hon. Member please be heard in silence, I think your voices are too loud? Hon. Mashayamombe, you may continue.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The
President also spoke very strongly on the strengthening of industries. I was quite touched by that issue because I reside in Harare and the majority of people work in Harare. A lot of industries have closed down and the majority that are working are not optimally performing.
The introduction of S.I. 64 that bars the importation of inputs from other countries is good and well accepted yet we are still seeing processed goods coming into the country despite S.I. 64 being in use. This Statutory Instrument was meant to create employment for Zimbabweans. After the introduction of bond notes, companies now have serious problems importing raw materials as cash is now being sold. Companies are now adversely affected and failing to transfer foreign currency to import raw materials. The bond note is good as it enables the availability of money supply within the country but as a
Government, we should go further and maybe adopt the Rand for use in Zimbabwe so that people can trade and there is foreign currency in our economy. South Africa uses the Rand and if possible, we should adopt the Rand system so that manufacturers can import raw materials from South Africa.
We are not producing much in Zimbabwe. Hon. Mliswa spoke about the issue of taxes; we have too many taxes in Zimbabwe. People are heavily taxed in Zimbabwe and if possible, Government, through the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, should look for other forms of revenue rather than saddle people who are already burdened with these taxes by imposing other taxes. There are too many taxes and they are now a burden on the people.
The President also alluded to the issue of constructing new schools because our population is increasing. In my constituency, Harare South, we have few schools. We urge the relevant ministers to expedite building of more schools as we run the risk of having more children not attending school.
The President also spoke on the issue of food distribution. At the centres, the majority of the people in towns are not self-sustaining. We urge that they also be given food aid like their rural counterparts. For instance in Harare South, which is my constituency; there are a lot of places where people reside in compounds. These former farm workers have nowhere to go as some come as far as Malawi. They are unemployed and have no means of sustaining themselves. We would appreciate it if they were to be given food handouts. Some Members of Parliament who are based in rural constituencies may think that we want to take the cloud away from them but the position is, we have serious problems of people who need food assistance in Harare South especially in Hopely. We should have a situation where food handouts are given to both the urban and communal dwellers.
The President also spoke about corruption in Zimbabwe. Corruption is a serious issue in Zimbabwe and a lot of people disagree on corruption. Corruption is now being taken in a bad way as being used to fight other people. Corrupt activities should be investigated and dealt with in a constitutional manner. We should not be pointing fingers at one another without evidence of the said corrupt activities.
Lastly, I would like to say that in Zimbabwe, we urge our people to be united because the President urged us to be united regardless of our political affiliation or chief we fall under. United we will stand and divided we will fall. If we are united, our country will be able to develop. I thank you.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Madam Speaker, the address by His
Excellency the President on the state of our nation created a spring board for our economic transformation. The introduction of S.I. 64 means that local producers are now able to get a market. For example, in my constituency, we produce vegetables and we were competing with GMOs that were coming from South Africa. So, S. I. 64 stopped all that and as we are talking, there is an improvement in terms of quality and quantity of the vegetables now being produced by our people at Mbare Musika.
- I. 64 also created a situation whereby our people are now participating in the growth of the economy. We cannot have a situation where our people are economic spectators. So, the S. I. 64 must be supported. When S. I. 64 was introduced, a lot of people made a lot of noise because they did not understand that when Zimbabwe was exporting beef to the European Union (EU), we were given a quota, not to Britain but a quota for the whole EU. There is no country that does not protect its own economy. Donald Trump, the incumbent President of the United States of America recently said, ‘America for Americans’. He is protecting the American market. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Protecting your economy is the key to success and this is what Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe, our State President has done. He has managed to ensure that our people produce under free and fair conditions. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Election!] – No not election.
Madam Speaker, when you look at ZIM ASSET, it means using what we have. We have practical examples of the success of ZIM ASSET. In my constituency, Uzumba Constituency, we have 27 primary schools and 26 secondary schools. We are left with one primary school that does not have a secondary school. ZIM ASSET means you are masters of your own destiny. Yesterday, during the struggle, we were saying we are masters of our own liberation. This is what we are doing, we are masters of our economic development and we have to continue with this programme we are doing, develop our people. Social development of our people is the key to the success of any economy.
The element of political situation that many Hon. Members have tried to mention, when there is a country and you go to general elections, you have 22 political parties, it shows that there is a desire to rule. That country is stable and the 22 political parties disappear and ZANU PF comes out victorious. It shows that it is accepted by the people and it is for the people. In a situation where we are Madam Speaker, the production of gold by our people, the small scale miners, during the past year 2016, they produced ten tonnes of gold. What does it mean? It means that most of our people were involved in some form of economic activity. That is critical in any economic development. We can talk of the Stock Exchange but that gold Stock Exchange where my mother, father and my grandparent is able to go into the river and do a little bit of panning and get some money, are now part of the economy. That is what is known as economic transformation.
Madam Speaker, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, Dr. Mangudya mentioned the issue that, it must never be criminalised to have gold in your pocket. Gold is part of our society. The Great Munhumutapa Empire was created by gold and we continue to support the small scale gold miners because they are the answers to our economic development. What does gold do when it is available in a country? If we had our own currency, it improves, you will hold the gold against your currency. You can also borrow against the gold reserves that you have got. So the small scale miners are very critical to the transformation of our economy. They are also very critical to the participants. Economics is different from soccer where you have got 11 people in each team and 60 thousand people sitting in a stadium clapping hands. Economics means the 60 thousand people must also be participating in that activity and at the end of the day, we achieve results.
Command agriculture – when His Excellency mentioned about command agriculture, a lot of people laughed. As we prayed, God gave us rains, we now have enough maize to take us for the next three years. Zimbabwe will never import maize again. This is the chance for us Zimbabweans to consolidate our position, identify communities that need food and make sure they all get food. This is critical and it is the responsibility of this august House. Certain members of the Committees that are responsible for social services must come and engage the relevant Ministers to say, this constituency does not have food. Hunger knows no political party. We need to realise that we are the third arm of the State and must continue to work together as a team.
The maize was imported, we want to thank our Government for importing maize and distributing it to the people. The Micro-Finance Bank is coming but as legislators, we must make sure that micro-finance does not reap, steal from people because most of them, their interests rates are out of this world. Most of the teachers and civil servants you see are under siege. They are slaves of micro-finance institutions and this must be corrected. This august House cannot preside over such issues. If you go to the newspapers everyday, there is a house for sale. That house for sale does not mean that owner was not a good manager, it is the interest rates that we have allowed.
Banks are declaring huge profits, against what? They are stealing from people. This must be corrected yesterday. The women’s participation in the economy is critical. We must have a women’s bank yesterday. We are seated here every year, there is going to be a woman’s bank every year and it does not happen. Why does it not happen? It is our duty as Hon. Members to respect our people. Now they have gone back to their hotels. They are sleeping and drinking tea there, tomorrow they come here for five minutes and go back and drink tea. It is not leadership.
Leadership is about presenting the problems that I have from my constituency and engage the Ministries like what the Health Committee did. I have seen them engaging the Minister to say this is good and this is right so that we move together as a country and as a community.
Gender based violence must never be allowed to raise its head in any community because people were created by God to love each other. We must never be seen to be fighting. Love is like margarine. You must always spread it over to all corners of the slice of bread – [Laughter.] – so that the nation develops in peace. When there is love, the nation moves and is develops in peace. I also am available Madam
Speaker – [Laughter.]
Health service is critical to the development of any nation. We have over four thousand trained nurses and as Parliament, we must move a motion and say, all the trained nurses must be employed yesterday so that there is health delivery system. When there is no health delivery system, it is the women who suffer most because they look after the family, look after the father and look after everybody.
It is critical that, in other instances Madam Speaker, we must focus on critical issues that give us results yesterday. We must also thank His Excellency because there is massive improvement on the health delivery system. I had relatives who were affected with HIV, Dr. Chimedza will bear with me. A person was taking 13 tablets in the morning, 13 tablets in the afternoon and 13 tablets in evening, a total of 39 tablets a day. When that person sleeps in the House and making funny noise ha-ha-ha because he is under siege but now he only takes one tablet in the morning and goes to bath. That is an improvement and it is an area that we must continue to battle against AIDS. We have defeated AIDS and we must salute ourselves. We must thank ourselves that we have defeated AIDS because we are no longer taking 39 tablets. We must continue, even in this august House, to say the truth about AIDS.
The issue of electricity in rural areas is critical but it must be backed by training our youths with different skills that benefit the people.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Air Force of Zimbabwe and President Mugabe, the Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces. The Air Force of Zimbabwe, with limited resources, has done a splendid job. All the people that have been marooned have been airlifted by our helicopters from point A to point B.
Our pilots were working 24 hours a day and that is what we must salute.
We must give credit to people who would have done something good. The Air Force of Zimbabwe, if you go to Matabeleland or even go anywhere, they are there assisting our people and the Commander-in-
Chief is Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe.
Madam Speaker, we can talk but we must realise that this year
2017, is a year where we have received rains more than any other year.
It shows that different committees of Parliament, including the Committee on Agriculture must now ask the Ministry of Agriculture what their plan is. Minister of National Parks, we cannot continue like what we read from the Bible - those people who were told by Jesus to stop fishing, and I will make you fishers of men. We must start breeding fish in all these rivers. It must happen and it can happen. This is happening in other countries where if protein levels improves, then the intelligence of the people improve. When people are intelligent, they are not violent. So, it is a society that we must develop. We must also be able to live together as a community.
Lastly, I drove from Plumtree to Mutare. I was impressed with the condition of the road. Here and there, there are some faults but it is a sign of a standard road. We must continue to admire good things. Good things must be admired. It was so smooth. The Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development must also be saluted for what they are doing. The current situation of bridges which have been washed here and there, we need now as Parliament to say let us mobilise resources and have community-based construction of these roads so that our people benefit, not to get South Africans to come and dig a trench her and there. No, we must benefit. The purpose of any crisis if it happens is that you must benefit. You must benefit from the crisis. When you have no teeth in your mouth, you are the first recipient of milk. So, harness from this current situation – [Laughter.] - We must benefit from the situation that has happened. I want to thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order. My point of order is that the Speaker who left the Chair has recognised me after Hon.
Mudarikwa. Do not talk about shebeen issues here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MADZIVA): Okay
Hon. Members. Of course, there was a list but I also look at gender issues to say how many women want to speak on the issue and political parties as well. So, we need to be sensitive on all the issues. That is why.
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, on a point of order and may it be noted. In fact, I have conversed with Hon. Khupe, our Leader of the Opposition and she requested that I convey this. This is a very serious debate on the State of the Nation but if we may appeal to you Hon. Chair and also the Chief Whip of the current Government, ZANU PF that when you are debating the President’s State of the Nation Address and you have such empty chairs, it tells you part of the state of the nation – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, Hon. Speaker, let …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can the
Member be protected.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you. So Hon. Speaker, this has to be known. This is a serious issue. We cannot have vacant seats when we are supposed to have occupied seats because vacant seats entail that there is a vacant leadership and oversight in this Parliament and we must be able to deal with this. Hon. Speaker, this is serious and I hope that you will be able to take this seriously. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, your point of
order has been accepted. This is very true and I think as Members of Parliament, we need to be serious with Parliament business on all the issues in Parliament.
HON. MLILO: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mlilo, is your
point of order on the same issue or is a different one – [HON. MLILO: Let us then convert it to a point of privilege.] - because I think I have already given a ruling that Members of Parliament are supposed to be in the House on all the issues.
HON. MLILO: At least hear me out. While I acknowledge the importance of the State of the Nation Address debate, I think the previous Speaker should as well refer to the Members of the Opposition who are not here -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Mlilo. Order Hon.
Members. My point is clear that Members of Parliament should be in the
House at all times. It does not matter which issue is being debated. You are supposed to be in the House and I acknowledge his point that Members of Parliament must come to Parliament to serve the people because you are here to serve the people. So, I agree and we are going to make efforts to make sure that Members are there in Parliament until end of business.
*HON. MAHOKA: Let me start by expressing my gratitude to Hon. Simbanegavi for bringing this motion on the presentation made by the President. Let me start by saying congratulations Gushungo! I want to talk about the issue of health that was mentioned by the President.
On health, I think the President mentioned some issues but people do not want to take what the President of the nation has said. If the President says something, people should take it up and implement what the President will have said in order for our country to develop. If we look at the issue of health, women are still struggling in hospitals. They are still walking long distances to hospitals which currently do not have any medication. If we talk of the doctors and nurses who are supposed to be providing services; in Karoi, the nurses and doctors do not have accommodation. They stay in the locations in houses that were built by the Government long ago and the rentals are very high considering the salaries that they get. In the end, they cannot sustain their families.
If we go to the hospitals, you find that the doctors are not available at the hospitals. Women cannot go through caesarian section because the doctor is not available but is in the location. You need to put fuel in the ambulance to go and pick up the doctor. What I think is that
Government houses should be occupied by Government employees. They should not pay rent but live for free because what they are doing is voluntary. The salaries that are being paid by Government is very little in terms of remuneration. So, it is more of voluntary work that they are offering. I think the Government should come up with a policy to say Government employees stay in those houses for free to ensure that what the President said in terms of health delivery can be fruitful.
On the issue of the road network, the President mentioned that in the urban areas, the roads would be resurfaced and a research was done.
The research realised that the roads in the urban areas need urgent attention. We have received a lot of rain but most of the areas now have got potholes and in the rural areas, there are no bridges especially in Hurungwe. The bridges are a sorry sight because they were washed away and people cannot access their areas even to go and bury the deceased. A car brings a body from the mortuary but because it cannot cross, you then have the cattle drawn carts carrying the bodies across with another car waiting on the other side. So, it is an issue that needs to be addressed especially in Hurungwe. The issue of roads needs urgent attention. There has been a lot of rain and we need to expedite the process to address our road situation to ensure that we assist those in the rural areas.
On the issue of roads again, in our area there are a lot of crocodiles in the rivers there. Children are crossing these rivers and I think that more schools should be built so that the schools are accessible. In Hurungwe, the children have become feed for the crocodiles as they are being eaten by the crocodiles.
HON. CHAMISA: I need just clarification Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, is there any
need for a point of clarification.
*HON. CHAMISA: Yes. As she is referring to the crocodile, we want to know which type of a crocodile she is referring to. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I think
the Speaker ruled earlier on that this House is not a House of jokes, we are doing serious business and the Hon. Member is referring to the ngwena that lives in the water. Hon. Mahoka, you may continue.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What you have mentioned has pleased me because Hon. Wadyajena is not taking this House seriously. He should take Parliament business seriously because this is not a place for idle talk, but it is a House whereby we need to seriously work.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mahoka, you may just
continue with your debate?
*HON. MAHOKA: On the issue pertaining to violence …
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon. Speaker, if you have made a
ruling, your ruling should be respected by this august House. If there are intra-party differences in ZANU PF, they should be dealt with at the appropriate place which is outside this House. Your appeal for speakers to be heard in silence should be respected by all Hon. Members.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, I hear
what you have said. Earlier on, the Speaker ruled that this is not a
House of jokes and as such, we should never treat the business of this House lightly. So on that score, Hon. Wadyajena, may you please withdraw your statement? Please withdraw your statement.
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, I do not know which statement you want withdrawn.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You said there are many
crocodiles in here; therefore I want to know which crocodile is being referred to. Withdraw that statement because the Chair has ruled that you should accordingly withdraw the statement.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Hon. Speaker, (derogatively refers to an
Hon. Member as Amai ava).
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please just withdraw your statement. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- *HON. WADYAJENA: No, No, do not threaten me.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, please
observe the rules of the House. I want you to withdraw your statement.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Do you want me to say hon. Father or mother. Is she male or female?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Wadyajena, you
cannot challenge the Speaker. Please withdraw your statement.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, I am now confused.
Which statement?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The one in which you
mentioned that there are many crocodiles after the Chair had given its ruling.
*HON. WADYAJENA: There are many crocodiles.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please withdraw your
statement.
*HON. WADYAJENA: There are many crocodiles in the river.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Are you refusing to withdraw
your statement?
*HON. WADYAJENA: She should first withdraw her statement
on crocodile(s).
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I insist you withdraw that
statement.
*HON. WADYAJENA: She should first withdraw her statement
on crocodile(s).
THE TEMPORARY SPEKER: Hon. Wadyajena, I have already made a ruling, withdraw your statement – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Members.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Let me go to the Chief Whip first. Hon. Wadyajena approached the Chief Whip.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Do not force me to take
action.
HON. ZINDI: On a point of order Madam Chair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Just hold on, I want to finish
with this ruling.
*HON. ZINDI: I want to support you on that issue. Madam Speaker, I want to say that Hon. Wadyajena should abide by the rules of this House. He should not exhibit sexist language that tends to demean female Hon. Members by derogatory referring to them as amai ava when in truth, she is Hon. Mahoka. You yourself has made a ruling but he is totally disrespecting you because you are a woman. You are Madam Speaker and you are presiding over the proceedings and yet, he has the audacity to say that he wants to go and verify with the Chief
Whip. I have never heard of such a thing in the history of this Parliament where an Hon. Member wants to consult the Chief Whip after the Speaker has made a ruling. So, that is being disrespectful and it should never be countenanced at all.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Hon. Speaker, what this woman has said
- [HON. ZINDI: Inaudible interjections.] -
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. Order Hon. Zindi and Hon. Wadyajena, I will now follow Parliamentary procedures. According to Standing Order Number 107, “any Member, having used objectionable words and not explaining or retracting them or offering apologies for the use of such words to the satisfaction of the House, must be dealt with as the House may think fit; and any Member called to order must resume his or her seat unless permitted to explain.”
*I want to clearly point out that Hon. Members, you have disrespected the Chair. This House is not going to take this matter lightly. We will take the necessary corrective measures so that you give due respect to us in the Chair as opposed to exhibiting that you are more powerful than the Chair. So, I am going to take this matter to the relevant authorities so that it can be investigated.
Hon. Wadyajena went out of the House.
*HON. MAHOKA: Let me proceed. On the issue of crocodiles, Madam Speaker, most children in Hurungwe as I speak, were eaten by crocodiles. So, I do not think that it is a problem for us to talk about in the House that most children are being eaten by crocodiles to ensure that the Government addresses the problem for them to travel to school safely. On the matter pertaining to domestic violence, – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mahoka, speak to the
Chair.
*HON. MAHOKA: On the issue of violence, against women.
Most men in the homes are engaging in violence against women. The President mentioned this issue but I realise that domestic violence against women is on the increase. This is because our law enforcement agents, such as the ZRP do not have vehicles for them to be mobile.
Even if women are abused, it is difficult for them to get assistance because the police themselves are not mobile. Our request is for the Government to increase the number of vehicles in the rural police stations to ensure that women are protected from domestic violence.
Currently, there is the issue of the tobacco season. Most women will experience gender based violence when they want a share from the produce. When their rights are violated, they are reluctant to go and report because the police station is too far and they know that the police will not come. My request is that the Government increases the number of vehicles in rural police stations.
Hon Chinotimba having told Hon. Mahoka that you are left with only four minutes.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Chinotimba, I
am the Chair and it is me who can only give a ruling. I thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Madam Speaker, I am not left with four
minutes.
* THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yes, you are left with four minutes Hon. Mahoka.
*HON. MAHOKA: On the issue of corruption that was alluded to
by the President, I have not noticed any action that has been taken. Since the President mentioned this, I have not witnessed anyone being imprisoned or brought to book because of corruption. All those who are responsible for bringing these people to book should ensure that they do their work so that corruption is brought to an end for the development of the nation.
On agriculture and farms, someone talked about VAT or taxes. I want to support the Hon. Member who alluded to the fact that taxes are now too high. In A2 farms, they are taxed twice; the council taxes them and the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement also requires tax for that same piece of land…
Hon. Zindi and Hon. Wadyajena having been making noise.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Zindi and Hon.
Wadyajena, do not make me cross.
*HON. MAHOKA: The issue of farms that I am talking about is of concern because the taxes have become exorbitant. At the Ministry of
Lands and Rural Resettlement, you have to pay $5.00 for each hectare. Those who came up with that figure should consider the issue of fertiliser in Zimbabwe. Fertiliser is expensive in Zimbabwe. If we are to visit other countries in the region, fertiliser is $10.00 and in Zimbabwe it is $35.00.
If we look at ZINWA, water is core for farmers. We do not know how ZINWA can say they assist farmers, when they milk them. They only collect money from farmers but we do not know what that money is used for. If you sink your own borehole, ZINWA wants payment. If you build your own dam, they charge you. When that dam cracks they do not give a hand. The water that they are charging the farmers is provided by the Almighty God. ZINWA only collects revenue from the farmers but they do nothing to support farmers. We feel that the money that is being charged is too much.
On electricity, the tobacco farmers cure their tobacco using electricity but the price of electricity is exorbitant. I do not know what can be done to ensure that electricity rates are reduced so that the farmer can realise some profits. Still on farming, implements and equipment are very expensive. For example, the tractors, if you buy a tractor from South Africa, it is a challenge to bring it to your farm. Diesel has also gone up and the farmer in the end does not realise any profit. The farmer is milked from both angles for the same farm.
* THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mahoka, can you wind
up your debate because your time is up.
*HON. MAHOKA: The issue is of farmers who lease their farms to White farmers and they get 5% for the leases. We want to thank the Government for bringing this Command agriculture. This enables the farmers to get more money by using good methods of farming. My request is that those who are still leasing their farms, the Government should repossess those farms and allocate them to those who are serious with farming. Those who fail to produce after being given implements should lose their farms but should pay for those implements. Those farms should also be given to people who are willing to farm and produce. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 1st March, 2017.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON.
RUNGANI, the House adjourned at Three Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 22nd February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege Section 69 of the Standing Rules and Orders….
THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER (MR. MARUMAHOKO):
Hon. Nduna, may you approach the Chair.
Hon. Nduna approached the Chair.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, after having conferred with you and you gave me authority to continue; Mr. Speaker, yesterday we debated the report on Defence and Home Affairs. The way it abruptly ended, I seek your guidance on how we should go forward so that we can get the responses to the contents of the report which them are very pertinent. I seek your indulgence and your guidance on how the report is going to be responded to, in particular about the birth certificates, identification cards and the registration certificates. I thank you.
THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER: The mover of the motion
shall restore it on the Order Paper.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I rise to congratulate His Excellency for turning 93 and we certainly wish him good health – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
HON. CHIBAYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much. According to Section 68 (d), today is a Wednesday but as you can see, we have only two Hon. Ministers. These are Hon. Dr. Made and Hon. Bimha and one Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. We have got questions from our constituencies and as you can see, the front bench is empty; there is nobody to ask questions.
We have raised this issue on several times and no action has been taken.
I thank you.
THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, this has been
said over and over again. The Speaker has taken action; I am sure he has alluded to that. I will brief him on his return that this has continued again. For now, we have three Ministers and – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order. On my left, I am saying order.
Behave like Hon. Members.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I stand to be
guided Hon. Speaker. Yesterday, you gave a ruling regarding a specific point of order which had been raised by an Hon. Member and your ruling was final. Unfortunately today, another Hon. Member has made the same point of order which you made a ruling on the previous day. What is surprising to us Hon. Speaker, is whether that ruling which you made yesterday has been superseded by this other point of order? If you can help us in making a ruling on whether what you said yesterday – [AN HON. MEMBER: Ange asipo.] - Hon. Speaker, we need to be guided on this one. If I can just remind you that the ruling was on the issue of a congratulatory message to Mr. Mugabe. Thank you Hon.
Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, the member who
stood yesterday on the same issue wanted to debate, then I said you can only put it on the Order Paper and the debate would be allowed. I made the ruling myself and I am saying what transpired yesterday.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I have a point of order.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Member?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I seek your
indulgence on the issue of attendance of Ministers.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, before you proceed, maybe it
is the same thing that you want to …
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, it is a different thing. Hon. Speaker, I wanted to say you have made a ruling that the Hon. Speaker will come and make a ruling when he comes back.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Just a moment. It is the same thing,
so I need to respond to that before you talk. Resume your seat. I have apologies from Hon. Zhanda, Hon. Prof. Moyo, Hon. Hlongwane and Hon. Nyoni. I am sure we have got some Ministers who have come in now and you may proceed with Questions Without Notice.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, you had actually ordered me to sit down so that you respond and then I would stand up.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: You were talking about Ministers.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes. I am still talking about Ministers.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: We have got enough Ministers to
answer questions.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, we have a Cabinet of around 40 Ministers and we are only seeing about three Ministers.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Some are on their way coming.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My point of order still stands. My view
Hon. Speaker is that as much as we are still waiting for the so-called letter that you are writing to the President, what is happening is that it is either the Executive is contemptuous of Parliament, contemptuous of the people of Zimbabwe or else, it is simply a sign that ZANU PF does not want to account to the people of this country. If we can continue each and every week having Ministers failing to come to appear before
Parliament when the same Ministers are actually utilising taxpayers’ money, I think it is better for us to come out into the open and tell the people of Zimbabwe that ZANU PF has become a rule unto itself and a country unto itself. It is not accountable to the people at all and that it has entirely failed to rule this country. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Member, your issue
has been noted.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question was
supposed to be directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Since the Leader of the House is here, I am sure he can respond to this question. Mr. Speaker, the preamble of the Constitution says “We acknowledge the supremacy of the almighty God.” The question is, in our schools in the new curriculum, there is no scripture union that is being done in the schools right now. Is Islam being imposed upon us? Can the Leader of the House please explain to this House on the new curriculum that is being imposed on the kids that have grown up in a Christian manner?
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I am certain that the Hon. Member has correctly quoted the Constitution accepting the supremacy of the almighty. With regard to curricula in schools, it is the duty of the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. He is better advised to put his question in writing so that the Minister responsible for these curricula will be able to deal with specific areas of the curriculum which he is not happy with. You cannot expect me at policy level to decide on which part of the curriculum is good or bad. I thank you.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Leader of the House, Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa. The Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, together with political parties agreed that the biometric voter registration kits procurement was going to be done through UNDP so that there is transparency, openness and scrutiny. According to media reports,
Government has said it is going to be responsible for the procurement. This is a serious assault on the independence of ZEC. Mr. Speaker Sir, we are all looking forward to a free, fair and credible election and that can only be realised when processes such as biometric voter registration are done in an open and transparent manner. Why is it that Government has now reneged on the agreement by ZEC and political parties that the biometric voter registration kits procurement is going to be done through UNDP.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): All the current existing political parties which participated in the issue of migrating from manual voting to biometric are agreed that we should go biometric. That is not an issue. The second issue is, who is going to buy the equipment? The Government of Zimbabwe has agreed to provide the US$17 million required to buy that equipment. The question of specifications as to what type of gadgets are going to be bought is technical. The Government of Zimbabwe is not involved. It is ZEC with its own technical experts identifying equipment and there are so many companies that have come forward, who are offering specifications that have been put forward.
So, it is not true that the Government of Zimbabwe is itself run; it has advanced $17 million to ZEC to acquire. I think every single Zimbabwean who is patriotic will feel proud that we are totally independent in finding resources to acquire equipment for ourselves rather than getting it from some other sources. We are all concerned with the issue of a fair, transparent general elections and would want to achieve that. This is why as political parties, we have all agreed to go biometric. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The first question that I have asked to the Leader of the House, the Minister responsible is now here. Could I please repeat that so that it can be responded to?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order please. Hon. Holder, I think the Leader of the House who is our Vice President has said, you have to put it in writing so that the Minister will do adequate research and give you adequate response. Of course, he was not here but he found it advisable for you to put it in writing.
*HON. CHAMISA: My supplementary question to the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa is, we have heard what you told us on the fact that Government is only coming in to assist in terms of funds on the procurement that was supposed to be done by UNDP. My question is, why is it that Government seems to be backtracking, yet it was agreed that the UN, through the UNDP, would procure the biometric machines. This is emanating from the fact that our elections are marred by a lot of conflict because there are some interruptions that happened. What I want to know is, why is it that we have changed or backtracked from the original plan. Will this biometric system be used only for registration or it can also be used during the voting system because we have heard that it can only be used for registration and when people cast their votes, that system will not be used. We want you to enlighten the nation on what will happen. I am sure you are aware of what happened in Gambia. We do not want such conflicts. I thank you.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have clearly heard the question that has come from Hon. Pastor Nelson Chamisa, the Vice President of the Opposition. We have not cut communication ties with UNDP. We have a lot of support that they give in terms of capacity building and that has not been cancelled. It is not only UN but also the EU countries and other bi-lateral organisations. Instead of each organisation or country coming forward, they have a basket fund that is used through UNDP. They dictate to us on what they want us to do and we will have requested what we want them to do. Probably, it can be capacity building like ICT. We have agreed on that note and capacity building will continue.
Hon. Chamisa, my will is that there be no conflict and unfairness during the elections, hence we have requested ZEC as an independent organisation to engage political parties before we get to the elections so that they address issues raised by various political parties. All those who want to be candidates should be given the opportunity to air their concerns so that when we get to the elections, all of us are convinced and happy with the process. That is what is currently happening. We agreed before with the political parties although some were not yet in existence but I know Hon. Chamisa’s Party was already in existence and we agreed we now want to adopt the biometric system.
As the Leader of the House, I do not understand some of these things but the young ones will understand it. Some of us have come of age but when you explain to us, we accepted some of these things. If there are certain things that you think are not in order, raise those concerns with ZEC because they will address those issues. As
Government, we have agreed that ZEC should take the lead as an independent commission. That is what I can say Hon. Pastor – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Yes, I hear you. You cannot always shout supplementary, supplementary.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I had kindly asked the Hon. Vice President whether it is going to be full throttle biometric voter registration and voting or it is just going to be biometric voter registration in part without the biometric voting process because that has been the indication.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: But that is another question.
HON. CHAMISA: It was the same question, but in two parts.
*THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Hon. Chamisa has forgotten that we agreed that we need biometric voter registration. We never said it would not go full throttle. We agreed that the biometric system would be used in coming up with a Voters Roll up until the actual voting. So, the division that he is making is something else. He should go and seek enlightenment from ZEC.
We agreed as parties as to what we want, but if he has a spirit behind him, he should tell us that the spirit of legion is upon him –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order please.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: I was only joking with him, I know he
is a pastor. If I was not in agreement with you, I would not say such words.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question
to the Vice President is, we heard the words that you have explained to us. Our country, in terms of finances, is not doing well and we have now got a partner who wants to come in and assist. We have challenges in hospitals because we are unable to remunerate doctors who are on strike. On 20th February, there is a woman called Caroline Dube who passed away.
Why is it that when we have got a partner or a funder who wants to assist us in this process, we are now backtracking and taking the money that we could have used to resuscitate and equip our hospitals to fund the electoral system? What is it that has caused us to forget about all of these challenges that we have and decide to take over the process of acquiring the biometric machines on our own?
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker, as Government, I think we have explained that we have not cut our relationship with the UNDP or partnership. All the monies that come in through UNDP are channeled to other sectors where we do not have the funds, but there are certain things that, as the owners of the nation, we should take care of and as Government, we felt that it is our duty to find funds for acquiring the machines. What surprises me is that you are against the fact that we need to take ownership of some of these processes.
UNDP is assisting. They do not come here to assist in everything.
There are things that they are assisting with. Ask the Minister of Health and Child Care who will give you the money that is being brought in through UNDP to assist the health sector. I thank you.
*HON. ZVIZWAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The whole country is aware of the fact that Zimbabwe is in partnership with the EU on three issues; on working with ZEC, the issue of capacity building that you talked about, as well as voter education and voter registration. As we journey along, ZEC and the partners are now in the process of voter registration.
ZEC in partnership with the European Union flighted an advertisement in the press that they are now procuring BVR kits. The statement was made by ZEC. The first thing they did was, they advertised. Secondly, they opened tenders and then thirdly, they short listed vendors. Under the short-listing system, the Government then backtracked and said no, we do not want you to do that. We are going to do the procurement on our own. You are aware of the fact that our elections are marked with unfairness and conflict. What has caused the Government to backtrack on this partnership? What has made you ensure that the partners do not procure the BVR?
The letter is available. You had already been appointed. For now, let us leave the letter issue because I will bring it. My question, Hon.
Speaker is, why is the Government now taking over from ZEC? Will
ZEC maintain its independence when the Government is taking over? Why can ZEC not complete the process as we agreed so that it is not under any Ministry or Government and that it remains an independent institution as we agreed?
HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member is
forgetting that ZEC was not constituted by the EU or UNDP. It was established through the Constitution of Zimbabwe. ZEC is funded by Government. In the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission Act, we have a provision which says, where they want to have partnership or access to foreign assistance, they must clear. It is not the other way round. Our money from Treasury does not at anytime, go into the European basket or UNDP basket. That is false. We support and finance ZEC ourselves.
In areas where we feel we have no capacity, we allow them to cooperate with partners to be assisted but only, after clearance, in terms of the law which sets up ZEC. So, there is no question of ZEC belonging or having been formed by an outside entity other than the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the laws passed by this honourable House. I thank you.
HON. ZEMURA: My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. SADC launched the Industrialisation Strategy in Harare two years ago so, have there been any achievements? Thank you Sir.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Let me preface my remarks by indicating that for a long time, SADC was focusing on the opening of markets. The discussions and negotiations at SADC level were more to do with countries opening up. There was a realisation by members within
SADC that we cannot continue to talk about trade until we address the issue of production in that, we need to produce and after producing, we can then engage in discussing issues of trade. Obviously, there were members within SADC who were at an advanced stage in terms of
industrialistion.
So, the hitherto dispensation fitted them very well, but for countries like Zimbabwe who still have a long way to go, in terms of industrialisation, it was then decided at the summit in Victoria Falls that we should now frontload our discussions in terms of industrialisation. Therefore, we had the opportunity as a country to host the discussions towards coming up with an industrialisation strategy and roadmap. We utilised consultancy in the member States and finally, the Heads of State and Government in their wisdom approved the industrialisation strategy and roadmap. That was in 2015. What is now happening Mr. Speaker Sir, is that, we are working on a costed action plan which I would like to believe will be presented to the next summit, which is next month in Swaziland. After that, I think we should be in a position to avail the information on the implementation matrix. I would like to thank you. *HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The response that was given by the Hon. Vice President concerning BVR; I reaslised that as he was responding to Hon. Zwizwai, there was already conflict. So, I was thinking that for the conflict to come to end, I was requesting the Hon. Vice President gives us a Ministerial Statement on the BVR for us to understand what is happening so that when we get to the elections, everyone will be in the picture of what will be happening.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member is saying that
there is potential and possibility of disputes and I do not dispute that.
The interest of ZANU PF, the interest of any political party – MDC-T, MDC-N, People First, people second; all those political parties who will be involved and registered to participate in the next general election, I think that, it is necessary and indeed a desire by all these political parties that we run a peaceful, transparent, fair, clean and credible election. To do so, we have set a platform where all the political parties who are participating in the general election discuss with ZEC and put forward their concerns so that everything should be ironed out before the election comes. That is what is there.
The Hon. Member says I must make a Ministerial Statement to repeat what I am saying; I determine where a Ministerial Statement is to be made.
HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Speaker, this issue is very important and we cannot leave it to be determined by one person, the Hon. Vice President. This is an issue emanating from the Constitution and the Hon. Vice President does not hold sway to determine whether or not he should give the Ministerial Statement. This Ministerial Statement, we demand it according to the Constitution and it must come from the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. We demand that this
Ministerial Statement is issued by the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development because it is the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development which wants to put money into ZEC and not the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. So this Ministerial Statement should come from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and should be done as soon as possible because this is a Constitutional issue. Thank you.
HON. E.D. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, since the Hon.
Member is stating that this is a constitutional issue, we are so pleased that you make your application quoting the Section of the Constitution which requires the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to make a Statement on this issue in Parliament.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, Hon. Made. Since Zimbabwe this year seems to be better placed in terms of food security, may you enlighten this House what preparations you have done in terms of dryers and the issue of procuring maize as well as the silos to store yields for this year.
*HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker, I think the Hon. Member is misleading the House. Zimbabwe is not better placed in terms of food security but you should not lie that we are expecting a bumper harvest. As it is we are actually experiencing hunger. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order including the Vice President of MDC.
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Mapiki for the question he raised. Firstly, in terms of the silos where we keep our maize, our silos are in three phases. There are silos that we built using concrete whereby we store maize. We then have the sheds.
On the concrete built silos, the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) is in the process of ensuring that those silos do not have leakages and no moisture can affect the produce. There are machines that are there to ensure that the maize remains safe in those silos. So, the Government has taken action to ensure that those silos are well maintained.
Secondly, we have companies, mostly the millers who buy maize from GMB. Some of them have promised that they want to work with GMB to ensure that our silos are adequately maintained.
In terms of buying maize from the farmers, what is important is that every farmer who is going to sell his/her produce to GMB should have a bank account. Once he delivers his maize to GMB, his money is transferred into his account. We want also to open up satellite points that will enable farmers to access the GMB than travelling long distances to take their produce to GMB. I thank you.
The Acting Speaker having recognised Hon. T. Khumalo.
*HON. NDUNA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I was of the opinion that since the person who posed the question has a supplementary, he should be given a chance to ask his question, then Hon. Khumalo will ask later.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The Hon. Member who posed the
question do you have a supplementary? I am sorry I did not notice that.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: On a point of order. Inasmuch as I appreciate the intervention by Hon. Nduna, my fear is that if we continue to be correcting and training you in this House, I think in the eyes of the public, even the international community will be reducing the integrity and the value of the Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Tshuma. Please
resume your seat. Hon. Sibanda, with due respect, I had not seen him standing up but other Hon. Members had recognised that he was standing up. So, there is nothing amiss there.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My supplementary
question is that I need clarity on the funding to buy maize from the farmers. Is there a fund that has been put aside to buy the small grains because they are in abundance where we come from.
*HON. DR. MADE: I would like to thank Hon. Mapiki. When we buy maize from the farmers, we will be buying small grains as well.
The price will be the same as the previous season, which US$390 per metric tonne.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
supplementary is on the safety of our maize. If anything is to go by…
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
Thank you Mr. Speaker. I realise that others posed supplementary questions and we were regressing, going back to issues that had already passed. There is something that happened in this House which is of concern to me. Hon. Munengami spoke in this House yesterday and complained about the happy birthday message to President Mugabe. He called him ‘Mr’. He cannot call the President Mr. He needs to correct that. When he said that, the whole country was listening to what he said.
He needs to respect the President. Is that what we can term respect?
The Opposition of this nation should be taught to respect and honour the President of the nation because he is the one who enabled you to be where you are. He respected you to be in this House. Today you are called Hon. Members – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - you want to be called honourable but you fail to say President, aah munoti muri vanhu?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Matambanadzo,
handina kuziva kuti nhingi yenyu yapinda nepapi but anyway, ndakunzwai, it is alright.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question is directed to Hon. Minister Made. If the media is anything to go by, we are being told that maize is the food for cattle.
How safe is our maize for consumption as human beings? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTUTRE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank the Hon. Member for seeking that clarification. I think we all know that in reference to certain parts of the country, it is very valid that; indeed, small grains are more suitable in certain areas, but we also know that historically, maize is an introduced crop into our environment. In the development of that grain, certainly, there are certain varieties that are also developed for purposes of livestock. So, there is nothing that is wrong in that particular clarification from a plant physiology point of view. Thank you –
Hon. Mliswa having stood up to give a point of order.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, if we continue with
these points of order, then you have no time to ask questions. The
Ministers are here now, you have been complaining that there were no Ministers in the House, they are here but you continue. Why do you do that? That is the last one Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think as Members of Parliament, we should take this House seriously. Some of us have no time to involve ourselves in party or factional politics, we represent our constituents. We come here to ask questions relating to the development of our constituencies. What I am trying to say here Mr. Speaker is that, you have a list which I referred to last week that you are being given a list. I do not belong to any party and they both have factions, and the list involve factionalism and I have no faction. So I
also wanted to give you a list of independent Hon. Members so that you can also recognise me – [HON. KHUMALO: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Mliswa, you have made your point – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, Order please.
Hon. Mliswa having been shouting at other Hon. Members was sent out of the House by the Acting Speaker and escorted out by the Sergeant At-Arms.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, let us maintain order in this Chamber please. If you continue making noise you will follow Hon. Mliswa outside.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. With due respect, this session is live on television. Zimbabweans are watching, they want to listen to what their Members of Parliament are asking Ministers so that they respond on issues affecting them out there. Let us respect the people out there who are watching this programme. I am pleading with Hon. Members of Parliament so that we take this session seriously. Thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Your point of order is sustained. Hon. Members, the nation is watching you, you represent various constituencies here, your behaviour will take you to your constituents, they are watching you. Everyone here is mature, why do you not behave honourably. You waste your time and at the end you only ask four questions yet when you come here you want all the Ministers to be present to listen to your noise. Is that what they should be happy for?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Mr. Speaker, you acknowledged me when
I stood up. You acknowledged that I must present.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: To which Minister?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: To Hon. Minister Made.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: You can carry on.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My
supplementary question is directed to Hon. Minister Made. I understood what you said concerning the procurement of maize by GMB. You mentioned that people will be receiving their money and it will be deposited into their bank accounts. In the rural areas, there are farmers without bank accounts and there are challenges for some of them, especially those in Chipinge to go and open an account. They need transport to go and open an account in Checheche or Chipinge. Hon. Minister, we faced challenges during the sale of tobacco because farmers were being charged commission by those people who have bank accounts. What measures have you put in place to make sure that those without accounts are able to get their money in full and are not robbed by those who have bank accounts? Thank you.
*HON. DR. MADE: I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking
this pertinent question that has given me a chance to enlighten this House. Firstly, I want to agree that to farmers who will have started farming, it is difficult for them. What we will do when it comes to tobacco and cotton is, we will look into that issue to assist our farmers. The advantage of opening an account is that the farmer will not have to wait for two or three weeks before they get paid. We would want them to access their money easily. We want to deposit their money into their bank accounts. So, we will consider the issue that he has raised to ensure that we improve the ease of doing business for our farmers so that they do not use middlemen’s accounts. I thank you.
*HON. PHIRI: I will direct my question to the Leader of the
House, Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa. Is there a new vision in Government in terms of investment for parastatals, such as glass companies, dairy …
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Mliswa, when
the Chair rules that you go out, I mean you go out and remain out.
HON. MLISWA: That is not what the Serjeant-At-Arms has said
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: No, no, no. Can you go out.
*HON. PHIRI: I was saying, since my question touches on a number of companies that fall under various Ministries, I will direct my question to the Leader of the House. Is there a new vision in Government as regards investment for parastatals that have closed because what is happening in these companies, it appears that there is disinvestment? What is happening in these organisations is that there is asset stripping. Most of the machinery is now being used as scrap. I will give an example of Kadoma. There is a glass company in Kadoma, which falls under IDC and is now selling equipment, machinery at Cold
Storage Commission and DMB are being sold. What is the new Government policy?
HON. SITHOLE: On a point of order. The Hon. Member is improperly dressed. He is wearing a track bottom in Parliament –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. I do not see anything wrong with his dressing.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. If you have a
nationalistic question, those that are not nationalistic would want to disqualify you from asking the question. I have said we have a glass company which falls under IDC and is now selling machinery and we have the Cold Storage Commission, they are selling machinery and the equipment as scrap. The GMB are selling the bulk tanks that are in Kadoma. Is there a new Government policy as regards these parastatals that are now selling machinery?
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, we have not come up with a new policy in Government as regards investors that can help us prop up our economy. We have sent up pleas to new investors to come in various sectors and at the moment, we have not heard any response in that regard. The asset stripping that has been made reference to, for me to be aware of it, I would not know. I cannot be responsible for guarding these drums. It would be a good thing if there are any anomalies that written submissions be made indicating the particular parastatal and the
Minister responsible will attend.
Hon. Bimha, the relevant Minister is here. Hon. Made, under whose purview GMB runs under, is hearing the news that assets are being stripped. It is not good and it cannot be condoned at all that parastatals are asset stripping. That should be submitted in writing so that the police can arrest the thieves.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I wanted to ask my question to the Minister of Health but in his absence, I
will direct it to the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa. People are crying in our Government hospitals over the issue of our doctors. Private doctors are for the affluent, our ordinary constituents in Gweru and Mkoba have access to Government hospitals. Doctors are on strike, what measures have you put in place, Hon. Vice President to put an end to the issue of our doctors who are now on strike so that they can go and carry out their duties and that our members whom we represent have medical access.
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member said it very well that the doctors are now on strike. He did not say that they have been sent on strike by Government; they have gone on strike on their own volition. Discussions are ongoing with those workers who are on strike.
They have grievances which they would want Government to address. Yesterday, we were in Cabinet and we heard their grievances and some of them have been attended to but others are still outstanding. They are still in the middle of coming up with a solution. Myself, all those that are in the august House and all our citizens wish that our doctors be in our hospitals and attend to those that are ill. As Government, we will do everything possible to ensure that their genuine grievances are looked into and addressed. I thank you.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Hon. Vice President, my question is, as you are undertaking these discussions with our doctors, nature cannot wait for a person to fall sick. I did not say that as Government, you sent them on strike but I said, as Government, what measures have you taken to address the short term problems. How are the patients going to be assisted whilst you are having your discussion? I thank you.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Indeed Hon. Speaker, when one falls
ill, those that are qualified to treat are the ones who treat. The ones that are qualified to treat patients are doctors who are on strike. We are discussing with the doctors, urging them to come back to work. We have had several doctors that have come from various areas that have come to assist. I did say as Government, we are concerned because a person falls ill any time and they require assistance only to find out that doctors are on strike. It is our wish that our doctors go back to work. The doctors are saying they are interested in working but they would want their grievances addressed.
In our negotiations with them, we informed them what we are capable of doing. In the mean time as we are negotiating, people fall ill; it is a problem we are facing as Government. That is why we are doing everything possible to ensure that the doctors go back to work. We would envisage a situation where they would resume their duties while we address their grievances because this is an issue that cuts across the entire nation. Those that are in the rural and those in the urban, those that have money and those that do not have, it is our wish that the strike be quickly resolved so they can go back to work.
Some assistance has come from the Army and from the Prisons and Correctional Services to assist in Government hospitals whilst these ones are on strike to alleviate this problem.
HON. HOLDER: To the Leader of the House, when you had Cabinet yesterday, you were updated about the plight of what is happening in the Health department. When you were being updated about the plight, did any story come up about the medical aid, PSMAS that does not work in any of our institutions. We are contributing religiously but they are not accepted and we are still paying cash. Can we be updated on that?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Holder, that is a different question from the original question and you may ask it as a separate question on its own.
*HON. P. D. SIBANDA: The Vice President has said they are taking measures to redress the issue. The problem of doctors has been ongoing for the past two decades when you have been ruling and ruling and ruling and going outside the country to get your own treatment. Hon. Minister of the lion totem, what has caused the Government to fail to resolve this problem that is affecting millions of Zimbabweans, but not you the affluent leaders who go outside for medical attention. Why have you failed through the years to resolve the issue of these doctors which dates back to 2004? I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Hon. Minister, before our advent, the doctors were there. Whenever they were dissatisfied, they would be on strike and issues would then be resolved. We came and took over and doctors go on strike and up to today, we are still resolving issues after they would have gone on strike. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. HOLDER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to extend question time.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir in terms of Order No. 69 (d). We made a request through this House for clarity on the issuance of rice by the Hon. Minister Mupfumira. We requested that we be given a list of the Hon. Members who have been recipients to the allocations of the 3000 tonnes of rice and the Hon. Speaker Adv. Mudenda, agreed to that effect that the Hon. Minister would come to do the presentation of the allocations of the rice of the beneficiaries.
There was an argument in terms of the allocation of the rice which was taking place across the country. It was cutting along this issue of political factions whereby there was this allegation that the G40 faction was benefiting more in terms of the rice allocation as compared to Lacoste and the MDC was the worst affected, though it was now encroaching to the Hon. Members of Parliament of ZANU-PF
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Honourable, what is your
point of order then?
HON. MUNENGAMI: My request is for the statement to that effect where the Speaker accepted that, that presentation would be done by the Hon. Minister regarding the presentation of the rice which was done. It is almost two months now and I am not sure whether it is a challenge just to get that list from these 270 Hon. Members of Parliament. Is that a challenge to a Minister with Principal Directors, Permanent Secretary, a Deputy Minister, Aids and so forth?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr.
Speaker. Mr. Speaker Sir, a request was made for a Ministerial
Statement on the distribution of food. I do not know whether the Hon. Member was in the House or not, but a full Ministerial Statement was given to that effect – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Just for the information, Mr. Speaker Sir, of the Hon. Member, just in case he was not here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order at the back.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: The issue of rice is very clear. We distributed 1 750 tonnes of rice to the rural provinces and they were supposed to be distributed to all constituencies through the Drought Relief Committee, not my Ministry and this was done to the constituencies through the Provincial Governors.
However, Mr. Speaker Sir, for your information and the information of the Hon. Members, it is not Government policy for the Hon. Members of Parliament, whatever party affiliation they belong to, to distribute. The distribution is done by Government through Social Welfare. I will insist that we will not give to individual Members of Parliament. They go through Social Welfare, through the Provincial
Administrator’s office. So, I would ask the Hon. Members to find out from their provincial administration where the rice has gone to. It has gone to people. It is not coming to any Member of Parliament, whether it is ZANU PF or MDC. It has to go through the official structures.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a statement was issued and I am just reiterating just in case he missed out. I thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. We have noticed back home that the rice which the Minister is saying has been distributed to the less privileged, to the people back home, it is just two cups. Minister, when you say you are giving people food, can the Government make sure you give them adequate food. That is mockery. When I got home, Mr. Speaker, I found out that my neighbours who had gone to collect that rice, it was just two cups. That is not good enough. Hon. Minister, please take note, let us not take advantage of people. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. You said the rice
was sent to rural constituencies. It is not clear you are either lying or you do not know what happens – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
HON. KWARAMBA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: He has not finished.
HON. KWARAMBA: It is a point of order in respect of what he is saying – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please! Hon. Khumalo,
I do not need your assistance. Thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, the
Hon. Member should address the Chair and not the Hon. Minister.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The point of order is appropriate, Hon. Member, please address the Chair.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I am saying in December 2016, rice was distributed in the rural areas and it was also brought into the urban constituencies. ZANU PF structures distributed the rice and said it had come from President Mugabe. But, she is saying that the officials from the Social Welfare Department are the ones who are distributing the rice. The Minister is lying to this august House and the country at large. She should say the truth.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, I think you will recall that the Minister came and gave a Statement in this august House and we gave Hon. Members a chance to ask questions and put additions and seek clarity. If you now want the Minister to come up with a repeat of that Statement, you may so request.
Hon. Chibaya, what I can do is to give you the benefit of the doubt only on that issue so that the Minister can answer but she gave a Ministerial Statement and you were supposed to have raised your questions then. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and allow her to answer the question, and then we are done.
Hon. Minister you may answer if you wish but we are not going back to that issue.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank the
Hon. Member for the question. If we say rural provinces – we have ten provinces and we have two metropolitan provinces which are Harare and Bulawayo and eight are rural provinces. When we say eight rural provinces we will be referring to those rural provinces which are eight in number. Towards the end of the year, Government resolved that periurban provinces, Harare and Bulawayo be issued but originally it was meant for rural constituencies. Gweru is the provincial capital for
Midlands. I wish God had allowed us to grow rice in Zimbabwe. -HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Speaker, as Zimbabwe, we are a
Christian nation and our Constitution says as much. I just want to implore the Minister to desist from bringing in the name of God into this. In fact, she must know God herself. –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]-
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. I have
already made a ruling that the Minister spoke on this issue and I am not going to give anyone some more time.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have made a ruling Hon. Gonese.
HON. GONESE: But Mr. Speaker, I think that any ruling must be predicated upon the proceedings and what transpired immediately prior to that ruling being made. I believe that when the point of order was raised, the position was that in response to questions which were being asked in this House about the list relating to rice specifically and not the statement which was given in this House which was just on mitigation. It was in response to that, that the ruling was made that a Ministerial Statement must be given to this august House specifically dealing with the beneficiaries and the list of distributions which were made. That is not the Ministerial Statement which is he is referring to.
I believe Mr. Speaker that in all fairness, to the people of this country, the point still remains valid that that a Ministerial Statement is due to be given in this august House so that the people of Zimbabwe can be appraised of the specific distribution. It is not helpful Mr. Speaker for the Hon. Minister to come and mislead this august House and this is what is causing the commotion. I believe that the Hon. Minister must take the people of Zimbabwe seriously and take this august House seriously and do justice to the pertinent issues which are confronting our nation.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of order
is about the issue that has been raised. The Minister was asked a question and she was about to respond and the MDC MPs started making noise. We would want to hear the Minister in silence and not noise. They should give the Minister a chance to answer the question.
Thank you.
*HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Speaker, we will not listen to Hon. Mahoka because she insults the Vice President of the country and nothing of substance will come from her.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order both sides, may we have
order in the Chamber please? I have already made a ruling and that ruling stands. Hon. Maridadi, you are a senior Member please.
*HON. MAJAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The issue of rice is problematic – whether it is MDC or ZANU PF, everyone wants to consume rice.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Sibanda.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order. Hon. Speaker, my point of order is that question 1 has been on the Order Paper since last year. Apparently, it is a question that is so pertinent to the people that I represent. I seek your indulgence and that of the Leader of Government Business, that we pray that this question be dealt with without so much delay because it has been on the Order Paper for over six months now.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you. It will be brought to the
attention of the Minister to be present to answer the question.
HON. MAONDERA; Thank you Mr. Speaker. A few weeks ago,
the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dokora said that he would bring to the House the new and old curriculum. Maybe he believes that we may forget. When are we going to get this curriculum because people are disgruntled about the new curriculum that you want to introduce.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member if you
remember, the Minister in this Chamber said he was going to organise a workshop. So, he has not done that workshop. You will hear when he is ready.
*HON. MAONDERA: Yes, he said we would organise a
workshop but he also said he would bring the new curriculum and the old curriculum as well for us to make a comparison and confirm if it is the Nziramasanga Commission recommendations.
*THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, why do we not wait
and do that process during the same time?
The Minister being absent to respond to question No. 8.
+HON. MKANDLA: Hon. Speaker, this question has been on the Order Paper since November, last year. The Minister had not turned up since then. I am therefore, requesting the Minister and respond because people are waiting for an answer in the Constituency.
POLICY MEASURES TO PROMOTE DOMESTIC TOURISM
- HON. CHIMANIKIRE asked the Minister of Tourism and
Hospitality Industry, the policy measures that have been put in place by the Ministry to promote domestic tourism and explain whether domestic tourism has improved since 2016.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA AND
BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. MUSHOWE): on behalf of
THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY
(HON. ENG. MZEMBI): Madam Speaker, the National Tourism Policy recognises the importance of the participation of the locals in tourism and thus the need to develop the domestic market. The domestic tourism market remains the backbone of the Zimbabwe tourism sector, despite the current economic challenges are facing.
In this regard, the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Industry together with Zimbabwe Tourism Authority engage in different activities in the country in order to educate our people on the holiday and investment opportunities in the tourism sector. The Government efforts to promote domestic tourism, His Excellency, the President, Cde. R. G. Mugabe initiated ‘know your Zimbabwe’ campaign in 2014. This initiative is aimed at incentivising locals to travel within the country and visit major tourist destinations in Zimbabwe.
In line with this campaign, the tourism industry has developed attractive packages for local people which include special hotel rates for city hotels being offered by leading tourist groups. Preferential hotel rates were also put in place to attract local travellers. Participation at local fares, such as the Zimbabwe International Trade fair, Provincial
Agricultural Shows in Harare, Mutare, Midlands, Masvingo, Bindura , Marondera and Chinhoyi. Cultural festive are some of the activities in increasing tourism awareness and bring the tourism products to the people.
The Ministry has developed a national tourism master plan, which is a framework to guide tourism development in the country. About 10 tourism development zones (TDZs) were identified for both domestic and international investors. In order to support local players in the industry, the Ministry is in the process of developing a tourism revolving fund. This will help to improve the tourism product and make it more accessible to the domestic people as well as attract domestic investors.
Realising that our children do not have a basic holiday culture, a schools educational programme was launched to build a culture of taking holidays among the children under the rubric ‘Catch Them
Young,’ as the school children are the future tourists.
In order to further promote domestic tourism, the Ministry is in the process of developing and revitalising Community Based Tourism (CBTs) projects with the assistance from Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA). So far, 80 projects were identified and four pilot CBTs were selected to inform the CBT manual to be finalised in May, 2017. These include Tengenenge Arts and Culture, Chesvingo Cultural Village, Bulawayo Township Tour and Girezi Eco-tourism. These projects are wholly owned and manned by communities and we are expecting both local and international tourists to visit these areas.
This will also benefit communities within the vicinity.
The local business tourism market segment is active throughout the year, through Meetings, Incentive travel, Conference and Exhibitions (MICE) while the leisure component is also pronounced during the public holidays and festive seasons. There is a great potential in the domestic tourism market that could sustain our economy if it is anchored by both promotional and empowerment financial support. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question to the Hon. Minister is; seeing that domestic tourism is a new product on the market, there are interested people in different communities who want to participate –
Hon. Toffa having been speaking to the gallery.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Hon. Toffa, can
you please address the Chair.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Seeing that domestic tourism is a new product, how do people who want to get involved in promoting…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon.
Kanhanga?
HON. KANHANGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is that domestic tourism is not a new product at all. It has been there since the formation of the Ministry of Tourism. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I was going to allow the Hon. Minister to respond after the Hon. Member had finished asking for clarification. The Hon. Minister will clarify that.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. It may not be a new product to the Government, but it is a new product to our local populace. My question relates to the fact that, I have been approached by a number of people who want to get involved but they do not know where they should go. I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister if his office is open to new players? As stated in his response, there is a lot of potential, what can new players do to participate? Thank you.
HON. MUSHOWE: Let me thank the Hon. Member for a very
useful question. It is true that domestic tourism is not a new
phenomenon in Zimbabwe, but it is also true that very few of our people have been participating in domestic tourism for basically two reasons; many people have been carrying the notion that tourism was for foreigners, tourists, as the name suggests, yet, this is a product that should be enjoyed first and foremost by our people. There has been a lot of promotional activities that have been taking place to ensure and entice our people to visit areas of tourist attractions. However, if there are people out there who want to know how and where they could go and even try to understand what it will cost them to visit centres of tourist attraction, my Ministry and ZTA are always available to entertain such enquiries and it is the business of ZTA to make sure that tourism is promoted. We would welcome such inquiries if they are there. I thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not think my question was heard clearly or the Hon. Minister did not understand it well. I am talking about people who want to participate who have something to offer as part of the product. For example, somebody who has a farm which has tourism products like heritage sites and so on. How can they be part of that, not those who want to go and visit? Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I also thought the Hon. Minister
was very clear that his offices, the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality
Industry and ZTA are open to those people to come and invest in the Ministry. However, I will allow him to clarify.
HON. MUSHOWE: Thank you Madam Speaker. You had spoken
for me very well. I thank you.
HON. ZVIDZAI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I wish to thank the Hon. Minister for a battery of initiatives that he has spoken to around domestic tourism. However, I would like to ask the Hon. Minister to indulge me and give a statistical expose of the benefits of the changes or improvements that have arisen from all these initiatives. I can see kuti dzanzwa moto dzakutaurirana ikoko kuti hanzi – this is a written question, this is not a …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are only
allowed to use one language. You started with English and you will explain everything that you want in English. In addition, just ask your question and do not listen to anyone. Speak to the Chair.
HON. ZVIDZAI: I would like to get a statistical expose of the benefits so that I can read whether this is just a pie in the sky or a big wish-list. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will allow the Hon. Minister to
respond but in terms of statistics, I think he would also need more time to go and do a research so that he will give reliable and correct statistics in the House.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. DR. MUSHOHWE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. ENG. MZEMBI): Thank
you Madam Speaker. I wish the Hon. Member could ask the original question because what Hon. Chimanikire asked for is different from what you are asking for. So, you should come up with a new question if you have a different question. I answered the question asked by Hon.
Chimanikire.
HON. ZVIDZAI: On a point of order. Madam Speaker, the Minister is simply refusing to answer a question that is very clear. If you look at the original question, it talks to ‘improved’ and talks to ‘promotion’. These are issues around change developmental issues and I do not see why he thinks there is irregularity with respect to this question. If he does not know, he must simply say I do not know.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I will not allow
the Hon. Members and the Ministers to respond to each other because I am the one chairing this session. The Hon. Minister has no capacity to bring statistics at this moment and juncture. So, I ask you Hon. Member to write down that question and put it on the Order Paper so that the Hon. Minister will respond to it next time.
ZIMBABWE HOTEL ROOM RATES VIS-A-VIS THE SADC TREND
- HON. CHIMANIKIRE asked the Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry to inform the house whether Zimbabwe hotel room rates vis-a-vis the SADC trend on hotel rates are comparable or competitive.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. DR. MUSHOHWE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY
INDUSTRY (HON. ENG. MZEMBI): May I once again thank Hon.
Chimanikire for his question. Let me begin by giving you a regional average room rates by star rating.
Table 1. Regional Average Room Rates by Star Rating
Country | 0-2 Star | 3 Star | 4 Star | 5 Star |
Angola | 150 | 214 | 355 | 439 |
Botswana | 61 | 90 | 154 | 588 |
Malawi | 110 | 152 | 187 | 245 |
Mauritius | 60 | 97 | 246 | 469 |
Mozambique | 107 | 125 | 190 | 281 |
Namibia | 84 | 115 | 127 | 368 |
Seychelles | 105 | 172 | 259 | 504 |
South Africa | 58 | 104 | 154 | 415 |
Zambia | 28 | 80 | 295 | 389 |
Zimbabwe | 79 | 129 | 149 | 232 |
Average | 84 | 128 | 212 | 393 |
Zimbabwean hotel room rates are generally competitive as shown in table 1 above. What makes Zimbabwe appear expensive is lack of value for money, for example, a 3 Star hotel in South Africa and
Seychelles is offering a product better than a 5 Star hotel in Zimbabwe. To this effect, standards and services of a five star hotel in South Africa would be way above the standards of a five star hotel in Zimbabwe. In addition, the Zimbabwe hotel rates may appear seemingly high because of the exchange currency rate with other countries’ currency for example US dollars versus South African Rand.
The level of hotel standards in Zimbabwe has generally gone down owing to economic challenges prevailing in the country. These challenges have also made it difficult for the destination to attract investors for new hotel developments in the country especially in the 4
to 5 star range. However, Government has put in place measures to address these challenges through the introduction of Special Economic Zones where incentives are provided to attract investment. In addition, there are Statutory Instruments in place to assist tourism players to refurbish their properties and uplift operating standards. I thank you Madam Speaker.
CONTRACTS OF EMPLOYMENT IN THE SERVICE OF THE
GOVERNMENT
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Justice Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, why some individuals are allowed to have contracts of employment in the service of the Government, as is the case with Rita Makarau the Secretary for Judicial Services Commission who is also the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC).
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, Justice Rita Makarau was appointed the Zimbabwe Electoral
Commission (ZEC) Chairperson by His Excellency, the President of the
Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe in terms of Section
238 (1) (a) of the Constitution. This is done after consultation with the
Judicial Service Commission and the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. In terms of Section 238 (2), for one to be eligible for appointment as the Chairperson of ZEC, they have to be a judge or a former judge or a person qualified for appointment as a judge. The current Chairperson was a former judge and this means she is totally eligible to be appointed.
Madam Speaker, the disqualifications that are contained in terms of Section 240 of the Constitution do not apply to the current
Chairperson of ZEC. In so far as her post as Secretary of the Judicial
Services Commission (JSC) is concerned, Section 10 of the Judicial
Services Act is the guiding provision. In terms of that Section, the
Secretary of the JSC is appointed by the Judicial Service Commission, which Commission is provided for under Section 189 of the Constitution.
Madam Speaker, it is therefore, clear from the constitutional and legislative provisions I have alluded to, that there is a difference in the appointment and functions of the Chairperson of ZEC and the Secretary of the JSC. Whilst the former is a presidential appointment in terms of the Constitution, the latter is an appointment by the JSC in terms of the Judicial Service Act. There is no law that precludes one from holding both positions if they are fit and proper and meet the requisite eligibility criteria. On behalf of the Minister of Justice I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, my supplementary question is…
HON. J. TSHUMA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not know how the Hon. Member gets to answer a supplementary question because he is not the Minister – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I think Hon. Tshuma, you are out of order because the Hon. Minister is representing the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and he has got the capacity to respond to all the questions, as he has also given the answer to the House.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon, Speaker. Justice Makarau, as Secretary of the Judicial Services Commission, is a senior member of a body that is charged with administering the courts in this country. Similarly, sitting as the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, Hon. Speaker, is there no conflict of interest in the two positions that Justice Makarau is occupying in the fact that, as the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, if there is a dispute pertaining to elections, the disputants in those elections will have to approach the same courts in which she is basically the manager in charge of managing the courts. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think, Hon. Sibanda, the
question does not arise because the Minister was clear in his answer that in the Constitution, there is no mandate that actually specifically states that one cannot hold those two positions because the other one is a constitutional presidential appointment while the other is a Judiciary Act appointment. So, I think the Minister has answered your question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I think with all due respect, you are out of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am being very honest, the Hon. Speaker is out of order. This is a genuine question that deserves a response from the Hon.
Minister and not from the Speaker. There is no need for the Hon. Speaker to shield the Minister from responding to that question. The question is a genuine one that has got nothing to do with appointments.
It is a question that has got to do with the manner that the Chairperson of ZEC, also being the Secretary of the Judicial Services Commission, discharges her responsibilities. It has got nothing to do with appointments. Therefore, I believe that the Hon. Minister should answer that question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, I think you are
the one who is out of order because the answer from the Minister was clear. If you have a separate question which needs a separate answer, then submit a written question and the Minister will provide the answer.
HON. MASUKU: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think the question from Hon. Sibanda arises because he is talking about the same person who is Rita Makarau, who is the Chairperson of ZEC and at the same time, she is the Secretary for the Judiciary Services Commission. The issue here is about the conflict of interest. So, the question still is relevant.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Okay, I will allow the
Minister to respond to the question, although I personally think that the question does not arise.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, you are very right in the response that you have given. In actual fact, the construction here is speculative construction that they are giving. I think that my answer was very clear. Thank you.
FOOD DISTRIBUTION IN NKETA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare to explain why food distribution in Nketa Constituency is done by ZANU PF party members, namely Mr. Keiza Mdlongwa, Mrs. Constance Ndlovu, Ms Mitsho Ndlovu, Ms.
Sibonginkosi Maphosa, Ms. Nkiwane from outside Nketa Constituency, Ms. Noweta from Northend and Mr. Dube.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE):
Madam Speaker, it is our understanding that the Hon. Member is referring to the grain distribution that is being implemented by Government under the state of disaster following the severe effects of the El Nino induced drought. Our response will accordingly be restricted to the current grain assistance under the Government Food Deficit Mitigation Programme.
Allow me, Madam Speaker, from the outset, to inform this august
House that food distribution under the Government Food Mitigation Programme is not operated on partisan line – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Allow
the Hon. Minister to respond to the question.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: At the provincial level, I reiterate again, the programme is coordinated by the Provincial Drought Relief Committee chaired by the Provincial Administrator. The District Drought Relief Committee is chaired by the District Administrator and the whole Drought Relief Committee is chaired by the Councillor or other elected local leaders at that level.
With reference to the Bulawayo Metropolitan Province at Ward level, the Drought Relief Committee is chaired by an officer from the District Administrator’s Office.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is very short and precise. The Minister is not speaking to the question. The question is so clear. It is requesting why specific names have been put across. Why are they doing the distribution? It is not a request for a workshop. Who are these people? Ngatimbomirai zveworkshop kani.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mutseyami. I have
heard your point of order. I want to make a ruling. Let us give the Minister a chance to finish his response so that we know if he has not answered all the questions clearly.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
was explaining that with reference to the Bulawayo Metropolitan Province, at ward level, the Drought Relief Committee is chaired by officers from the District Administrator’s Office while the secretariat is from the Department of Social Welfare in my Ministry. The other members are representatives from Government Ministries, the Bulawayo Residents Association and Community Representatives chosen by the respective communities and from other partner organisations operating in Bulawayo. Again I reiterate, no political affiliation is considered for membership into the Ward Drought Committees. Representatives are chosen by their respective organisations.
Following issues raised concerning partisan distribution of food in Nketa Constituency, investigations were carried out to establish how grain is distributed in the constituency. The Provincial Administrator,
District Administrator and some of the local leadership were consulted.
It was established that all distributions for Nketa Ward 25 and part of Ward 24 are carried out at Nketa Hall in Ward 25. Currently, there are five hundred households from both wards receiving grain assistance monthly at this ward distribution centre. The actual distribution of the grain is carried out by the Drought Relief team led by officers from the Department of Social Welfare.
The Ward Drought Relief members who are responsible for mobilising beneficiaries and for monitoring of the whole distribution exercise for this centre are Ms. Sibonginkosi Maphosa, Ms. Mitsho Ndlovu and Mrs. Constance Ndlovu from Wards 24 and 25. These members were chosen by the local communities to represent them in the Committee. They are coordinated by Ms. Eulyses Nowedza who resides in Northend.
We were made to understand that the selection process for these representatives were transparent and non-partisan. Our investigations also established that Mr. Keiza Mdhlongwa, Ms. Nkiwane and Mr. Dube are not part of the Distribution Committee and they are not known at the distribution centre.
In conclusion, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for bringing this matter to our attention. The Provincial and District Drought Relief Committees will continue to monitor food distribution in the respective areas of Bulawayo to ensure that all the needy have access to the food. I thank you.
HON. MASUKU: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Minister has
said the community leaders were asked about this issue on investigation.
I am part of that community, I am a leader and I am an interested person. Why was I not consulted about the issue because from what he is reading, there is no truth. It is far from the truth. Even the ward that you are talking about is not at Ward 25. So, you were given false information.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Masuku, please speak to
the Chair.
HON. MASUKU: Yes, you were given false information Hon.
Minister.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The
information we have...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members on my
left side, you have asked the question and you want the Minister to respond. So let us give him the opportunity to respond to your question.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: The information we have from
the Drought Relief Committee as set up is that the MP and Councillors from those wards were consulted. If it is a specific issue that Hon. Masuku is disputing that consultation, he can come to my office. We will raise the office and try and find out exactly what transpired. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Masuku, the Ministry
will make a follow-up.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Minister
says these Committees must be very apolitical. In the event that the community chooses a political activist to be part of the Committee, what remedies do they have as a Ministry?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
mentioned clearly that the selection process of the people on the Committee is not based on party affiliation. It will be difficult for anyone in this country to stand up and say so and so is affiliated to this party for as long as that is not the criteria that is being used for the selection process. The selection process is based on competency. What the person does or the person’s affiliation at the end of the day is immaterial, but should that person allow the party affiliation to affect the discharge of their operation and duties, then by all means you should raise up all those issues and we will take due cognisance of that and remedial action can be taken.
HON. MLILO: Thank you very much Speaker. My
supplementary question is in Cowdry Park Ward 28. We have got a councillor by the name of Collette Ndlovu or Nkomo. In Pumula Ward, I think it is Ward 26, we also have a councillor there. Those councillors are distributing rice and as they are distributing rice, they are sloganeering. That rice is only being distributed to the members of the MDC. Could the Minister elaborate on that one?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
thank Hon. Mlilo for that question. That is an area of great concern and as I said, food should never be distributed on party lines. So, we will obviously take up these allegations just like we take up the other allegations concerning the other parties and investigate, and try to get to the bottom of it and then make sure that food is not distributed along partisan lines. I thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON.
- MADE), the House adjourned at Five Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday 28th February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 22nd February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege Section 69 of the Standing Rules and Orders….
THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER (MR. MARUMAHOKO):
Hon. Nduna, may you approach the Chair.
Hon. Nduna approached the Chair.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, after having conferred with you and you gave me authority to continue; Mr. Speaker, yesterday we debated the report on Defence and Home Affairs. The way it abruptly ended, I seek your guidance on how we should go forward so that we can get the responses to the contents of the report which them are very pertinent. I seek your indulgence and your guidance on how the report is going to be responded to, in particular about the birth certificates, identification cards and the registration certificates. I thank you.
THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER: The mover of the motion
shall restore it on the Order Paper.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I rise to congratulate His Excellency for turning 93 and we certainly wish him good health – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
HON. CHIBAYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much. According to Section 68 (d), today is a Wednesday but as you can see, we have only two Hon. Ministers. These are Hon. Dr. Made and Hon. Bimha and one Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. We have got questions from our constituencies and as you can see, the front bench is empty; there is nobody to ask questions.
We have raised this issue on several times and no action has been taken.
I thank you.
THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, this has been
said over and over again. The Speaker has taken action; I am sure he has alluded to that. I will brief him on his return that this has continued again. For now, we have three Ministers and – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order. On my left, I am saying order.
Behave like Hon. Members.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I stand to be
guided Hon. Speaker. Yesterday, you gave a ruling regarding a specific point of order which had been raised by an Hon. Member and your ruling was final. Unfortunately today, another Hon. Member has made the same point of order which you made a ruling on the previous day. What is surprising to us Hon. Speaker, is whether that ruling which you made yesterday has been superseded by this other point of order? If you can help us in making a ruling on whether what you said yesterday – [AN HON. MEMBER: Ange asipo.] - Hon. Speaker, we need to be guided on this one. If I can just remind you that the ruling was on the issue of a congratulatory message to Mr. Mugabe. Thank you Hon.
Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, the member who
stood yesterday on the same issue wanted to debate, then I said you can only put it on the Order Paper and the debate would be allowed. I made the ruling myself and I am saying what transpired yesterday.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I have a point of order.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Member?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I seek your
indulgence on the issue of attendance of Ministers.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, before you proceed, maybe it
is the same thing that you want to …
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, it is a different thing. Hon. Speaker, I wanted to say you have made a ruling that the Hon. Speaker will come and make a ruling when he comes back.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Just a moment. It is the same thing,
so I need to respond to that before you talk. Resume your seat. I have apologies from Hon. Zhanda, Hon. Prof. Moyo, Hon. Hlongwane and Hon. Nyoni. I am sure we have got some Ministers who have come in now and you may proceed with Questions Without Notice.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, you had actually ordered me to sit down so that you respond and then I would stand up.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: You were talking about Ministers.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes. I am still talking about Ministers.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: We have got enough Ministers to
answer questions.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, we have a Cabinet of around 40 Ministers and we are only seeing about three Ministers.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Some are on their way coming.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My point of order still stands. My view
Hon. Speaker is that as much as we are still waiting for the so-called letter that you are writing to the President, what is happening is that it is either the Executive is contemptuous of Parliament, contemptuous of the people of Zimbabwe or else, it is simply a sign that ZANU PF does not want to account to the people of this country. If we can continue each and every week having Ministers failing to come to appear before
Parliament when the same Ministers are actually utilising taxpayers’ money, I think it is better for us to come out into the open and tell the people of Zimbabwe that ZANU PF has become a rule unto itself and a country unto itself. It is not accountable to the people at all and that it has entirely failed to rule this country. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Member, your issue
has been noted.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question was
supposed to be directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Since the Leader of the House is here, I am sure he can respond to this question. Mr. Speaker, the preamble of the Constitution says “We acknowledge the supremacy of the almighty God.” The question is, in our schools in the new curriculum, there is no scripture union that is being done in the schools right now. Is Islam being imposed upon us? Can the Leader of the House please explain to this House on the new curriculum that is being imposed on the kids that have grown up in a Christian manner?
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I am certain that the Hon. Member has correctly quoted the Constitution accepting the supremacy of the almighty. With regard to curricula in schools, it is the duty of the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. He is better advised to put his question in writing so that the Minister responsible for these curricula will be able to deal with specific areas of the curriculum which he is not happy with. You cannot expect me at policy level to decide on which part of the curriculum is good or bad. I thank you.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Leader of the House, Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa. The Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, together with political parties agreed that the biometric voter registration kits procurement was going to be done through UNDP so that there is transparency, openness and scrutiny. According to media reports,
Government has said it is going to be responsible for the procurement. This is a serious assault on the independence of ZEC. Mr. Speaker Sir, we are all looking forward to a free, fair and credible election and that can only be realised when processes such as biometric voter registration are done in an open and transparent manner. Why is it that Government has now reneged on the agreement by ZEC and political parties that the biometric voter registration kits procurement is going to be done through UNDP.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): All the current existing political parties which participated in the issue of migrating from manual voting to biometric are agreed that we should go biometric. That is not an issue. The second issue is, who is going to buy the equipment? The Government of Zimbabwe has agreed to provide the US$17 million required to buy that equipment. The question of specifications as to what type of gadgets are going to be bought is technical. The Government of Zimbabwe is not involved. It is ZEC with its own technical experts identifying equipment and there are so many companies that have come forward, who are offering specifications that have been put forward.
So, it is not true that the Government of Zimbabwe is itself run; it has advanced $17 million to ZEC to acquire. I think every single Zimbabwean who is patriotic will feel proud that we are totally independent in finding resources to acquire equipment for ourselves rather than getting it from some other sources. We are all concerned with the issue of a fair, transparent general elections and would want to achieve that. This is why as political parties, we have all agreed to go biometric. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The first question that I have asked to the Leader of the House, the Minister responsible is now here. Could I please repeat that so that it can be responded to?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order please. Hon. Holder, I think the Leader of the House who is our Vice President has said, you have to put it in writing so that the Minister will do adequate research and give you adequate response. Of course, he was not here but he found it advisable for you to put it in writing.
*HON. CHAMISA: My supplementary question to the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa is, we have heard what you told us on the fact that Government is only coming in to assist in terms of funds on the procurement that was supposed to be done by UNDP. My question is, why is it that Government seems to be backtracking, yet it was agreed that the UN, through the UNDP, would procure the biometric machines. This is emanating from the fact that our elections are marred by a lot of conflict because there are some interruptions that happened. What I want to know is, why is it that we have changed or backtracked from the original plan. Will this biometric system be used only for registration or it can also be used during the voting system because we have heard that it can only be used for registration and when people cast their votes, that system will not be used. We want you to enlighten the nation on what will happen. I am sure you are aware of what happened in Gambia. We do not want such conflicts. I thank you.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have clearly heard the question that has come from Hon. Pastor Nelson Chamisa, the Vice President of the Opposition. We have not cut communication ties with UNDP. We have a lot of support that they give in terms of capacity building and that has not been cancelled. It is not only UN but also the EU countries and other bi-lateral organisations. Instead of each organisation or country coming forward, they have a basket fund that is used through UNDP. They dictate to us on what they want us to do and we will have requested what we want them to do. Probably, it can be capacity building like ICT. We have agreed on that note and capacity building will continue.
Hon. Chamisa, my will is that there be no conflict and unfairness during the elections, hence we have requested ZEC as an independent organisation to engage political parties before we get to the elections so that they address issues raised by various political parties. All those who want to be candidates should be given the opportunity to air their concerns so that when we get to the elections, all of us are convinced and happy with the process. That is what is currently happening. We agreed before with the political parties although some were not yet in existence but I know Hon. Chamisa’s Party was already in existence and we agreed we now want to adopt the biometric system.
As the Leader of the House, I do not understand some of these things but the young ones will understand it. Some of us have come of age but when you explain to us, we accepted some of these things. If there are certain things that you think are not in order, raise those concerns with ZEC because they will address those issues. As
Government, we have agreed that ZEC should take the lead as an independent commission. That is what I can say Hon. Pastor – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Yes, I hear you. You cannot always shout supplementary, supplementary.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I had kindly asked the Hon. Vice President whether it is going to be full throttle biometric voter registration and voting or it is just going to be biometric voter registration in part without the biometric voting process because that has been the indication.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: But that is another question.
HON. CHAMISA: It was the same question, but in two parts.
*THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Hon. Chamisa has forgotten that we agreed that we need biometric voter registration. We never said it would not go full throttle. We agreed that the biometric system would be used in coming up with a Voters Roll up until the actual voting. So, the division that he is making is something else. He should go and seek enlightenment from ZEC.
We agreed as parties as to what we want, but if he has a spirit behind him, he should tell us that the spirit of legion is upon him –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order please.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: I was only joking with him, I know he
is a pastor. If I was not in agreement with you, I would not say such words.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question
to the Vice President is, we heard the words that you have explained to us. Our country, in terms of finances, is not doing well and we have now got a partner who wants to come in and assist. We have challenges in hospitals because we are unable to remunerate doctors who are on strike. On 20th February, there is a woman called Caroline Dube who passed away.
Why is it that when we have got a partner or a funder who wants to assist us in this process, we are now backtracking and taking the money that we could have used to resuscitate and equip our hospitals to fund the electoral system? What is it that has caused us to forget about all of these challenges that we have and decide to take over the process of acquiring the biometric machines on our own?
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker, as Government, I think we have explained that we have not cut our relationship with the UNDP or partnership. All the monies that come in through UNDP are channeled to other sectors where we do not have the funds, but there are certain things that, as the owners of the nation, we should take care of and as Government, we felt that it is our duty to find funds for acquiring the machines. What surprises me is that you are against the fact that we need to take ownership of some of these processes.
UNDP is assisting. They do not come here to assist in everything.
There are things that they are assisting with. Ask the Minister of Health and Child Care who will give you the money that is being brought in through UNDP to assist the health sector. I thank you.
*HON. ZVIZWAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The whole country is aware of the fact that Zimbabwe is in partnership with the EU on three issues; on working with ZEC, the issue of capacity building that you talked about, as well as voter education and voter registration. As we journey along, ZEC and the partners are now in the process of voter registration.
ZEC in partnership with the European Union flighted an advertisement in the press that they are now procuring BVR kits. The statement was made by ZEC. The first thing they did was, they advertised. Secondly, they opened tenders and then thirdly, they short listed vendors. Under the short-listing system, the Government then backtracked and said no, we do not want you to do that. We are going to do the procurement on our own. You are aware of the fact that our elections are marked with unfairness and conflict. What has caused the Government to backtrack on this partnership? What has made you ensure that the partners do not procure the BVR?
The letter is available. You had already been appointed. For now, let us leave the letter issue because I will bring it. My question, Hon.
Speaker is, why is the Government now taking over from ZEC? Will
ZEC maintain its independence when the Government is taking over? Why can ZEC not complete the process as we agreed so that it is not under any Ministry or Government and that it remains an independent institution as we agreed?
HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member is
forgetting that ZEC was not constituted by the EU or UNDP. It was established through the Constitution of Zimbabwe. ZEC is funded by Government. In the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission Act, we have a provision which says, where they want to have partnership or access to foreign assistance, they must clear. It is not the other way round. Our money from Treasury does not at anytime, go into the European basket or UNDP basket. That is false. We support and finance ZEC ourselves.
In areas where we feel we have no capacity, we allow them to cooperate with partners to be assisted but only, after clearance, in terms of the law which sets up ZEC. So, there is no question of ZEC belonging or having been formed by an outside entity other than the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the laws passed by this honourable House. I thank you.
HON. ZEMURA: My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. SADC launched the Industrialisation Strategy in Harare two years ago so, have there been any achievements? Thank you Sir.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Let me preface my remarks by indicating that for a long time, SADC was focusing on the opening of markets. The discussions and negotiations at SADC level were more to do with countries opening up. There was a realisation by members within
SADC that we cannot continue to talk about trade until we address the issue of production in that, we need to produce and after producing, we can then engage in discussing issues of trade. Obviously, there were members within SADC who were at an advanced stage in terms of
industrialistion.
So, the hitherto dispensation fitted them very well, but for countries like Zimbabwe who still have a long way to go, in terms of industrialisation, it was then decided at the summit in Victoria Falls that we should now frontload our discussions in terms of industrialisation. Therefore, we had the opportunity as a country to host the discussions towards coming up with an industrialisation strategy and roadmap. We utilised consultancy in the member States and finally, the Heads of State and Government in their wisdom approved the industrialisation strategy and roadmap. That was in 2015. What is now happening Mr. Speaker Sir, is that, we are working on a costed action plan which I would like to believe will be presented to the next summit, which is next month in Swaziland. After that, I think we should be in a position to avail the information on the implementation matrix. I would like to thank you. *HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The response that was given by the Hon. Vice President concerning BVR; I reaslised that as he was responding to Hon. Zwizwai, there was already conflict. So, I was thinking that for the conflict to come to end, I was requesting the Hon. Vice President gives us a Ministerial Statement on the BVR for us to understand what is happening so that when we get to the elections, everyone will be in the picture of what will be happening.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member is saying that
there is potential and possibility of disputes and I do not dispute that.
The interest of ZANU PF, the interest of any political party – MDC-T, MDC-N, People First, people second; all those political parties who will be involved and registered to participate in the next general election, I think that, it is necessary and indeed a desire by all these political parties that we run a peaceful, transparent, fair, clean and credible election. To do so, we have set a platform where all the political parties who are participating in the general election discuss with ZEC and put forward their concerns so that everything should be ironed out before the election comes. That is what is there.
The Hon. Member says I must make a Ministerial Statement to repeat what I am saying; I determine where a Ministerial Statement is to be made.
HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Speaker, this issue is very important and we cannot leave it to be determined by one person, the Hon. Vice President. This is an issue emanating from the Constitution and the Hon. Vice President does not hold sway to determine whether or not he should give the Ministerial Statement. This Ministerial Statement, we demand it according to the Constitution and it must come from the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. We demand that this
Ministerial Statement is issued by the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development because it is the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development which wants to put money into ZEC and not the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. So this Ministerial Statement should come from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and should be done as soon as possible because this is a Constitutional issue. Thank you.
HON. E.D. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, since the Hon.
Member is stating that this is a constitutional issue, we are so pleased that you make your application quoting the Section of the Constitution which requires the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to make a Statement on this issue in Parliament.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, Hon. Made. Since Zimbabwe this year seems to be better placed in terms of food security, may you enlighten this House what preparations you have done in terms of dryers and the issue of procuring maize as well as the silos to store yields for this year.
*HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker, I think the Hon. Member is misleading the House. Zimbabwe is not better placed in terms of food security but you should not lie that we are expecting a bumper harvest. As it is we are actually experiencing hunger. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order including the Vice President of MDC.
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Mapiki for the question he raised. Firstly, in terms of the silos where we keep our maize, our silos are in three phases. There are silos that we built using concrete whereby we store maize. We then have the sheds.
On the concrete built silos, the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) is in the process of ensuring that those silos do not have leakages and no moisture can affect the produce. There are machines that are there to ensure that the maize remains safe in those silos. So, the Government has taken action to ensure that those silos are well maintained.
Secondly, we have companies, mostly the millers who buy maize from GMB. Some of them have promised that they want to work with GMB to ensure that our silos are adequately maintained.
In terms of buying maize from the farmers, what is important is that every farmer who is going to sell his/her produce to GMB should have a bank account. Once he delivers his maize to GMB, his money is transferred into his account. We want also to open up satellite points that will enable farmers to access the GMB than travelling long distances to take their produce to GMB. I thank you.
The Acting Speaker having recognised Hon. T. Khumalo.
*HON. NDUNA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I was of the opinion that since the person who posed the question has a supplementary, he should be given a chance to ask his question, then Hon. Khumalo will ask later.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The Hon. Member who posed the
question do you have a supplementary? I am sorry I did not notice that.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: On a point of order. Inasmuch as I appreciate the intervention by Hon. Nduna, my fear is that if we continue to be correcting and training you in this House, I think in the eyes of the public, even the international community will be reducing the integrity and the value of the Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Tshuma. Please
resume your seat. Hon. Sibanda, with due respect, I had not seen him standing up but other Hon. Members had recognised that he was standing up. So, there is nothing amiss there.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My supplementary
question is that I need clarity on the funding to buy maize from the farmers. Is there a fund that has been put aside to buy the small grains because they are in abundance where we come from.
*HON. DR. MADE: I would like to thank Hon. Mapiki. When we buy maize from the farmers, we will be buying small grains as well.
The price will be the same as the previous season, which US$390 per metric tonne.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
supplementary is on the safety of our maize. If anything is to go by…
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
Thank you Mr. Speaker. I realise that others posed supplementary questions and we were regressing, going back to issues that had already passed. There is something that happened in this House which is of concern to me. Hon. Munengami spoke in this House yesterday and complained about the happy birthday message to President Mugabe. He called him ‘Mr’. He cannot call the President Mr. He needs to correct that. When he said that, the whole country was listening to what he said.
He needs to respect the President. Is that what we can term respect?
The Opposition of this nation should be taught to respect and honour the President of the nation because he is the one who enabled you to be where you are. He respected you to be in this House. Today you are called Hon. Members – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - you want to be called honourable but you fail to say President, aah munoti muri vanhu?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Matambanadzo,
handina kuziva kuti nhingi yenyu yapinda nepapi but anyway, ndakunzwai, it is alright.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question is directed to Hon. Minister Made. If the media is anything to go by, we are being told that maize is the food for cattle.
How safe is our maize for consumption as human beings? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTUTRE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank the Hon. Member for seeking that clarification. I think we all know that in reference to certain parts of the country, it is very valid that; indeed, small grains are more suitable in certain areas, but we also know that historically, maize is an introduced crop into our environment. In the development of that grain, certainly, there are certain varieties that are also developed for purposes of livestock. So, there is nothing that is wrong in that particular clarification from a plant physiology point of view. Thank you –
Hon. Mliswa having stood up to give a point of order.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, if we continue with
these points of order, then you have no time to ask questions. The
Ministers are here now, you have been complaining that there were no Ministers in the House, they are here but you continue. Why do you do that? That is the last one Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think as Members of Parliament, we should take this House seriously. Some of us have no time to involve ourselves in party or factional politics, we represent our constituents. We come here to ask questions relating to the development of our constituencies. What I am trying to say here Mr. Speaker is that, you have a list which I referred to last week that you are being given a list. I do not belong to any party and they both have factions, and the list involve factionalism and I have no faction. So I
also wanted to give you a list of independent Hon. Members so that you can also recognise me – [HON. KHUMALO: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Mliswa, you have made your point – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, Order please.
Hon. Mliswa having been shouting at other Hon. Members was sent out of the House by the Acting Speaker and escorted out by the Sergeant At-Arms.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, let us maintain order in this Chamber please. If you continue making noise you will follow Hon. Mliswa outside.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. With due respect, this session is live on television. Zimbabweans are watching, they want to listen to what their Members of Parliament are asking Ministers so that they respond on issues affecting them out there. Let us respect the people out there who are watching this programme. I am pleading with Hon. Members of Parliament so that we take this session seriously. Thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Your point of order is sustained. Hon. Members, the nation is watching you, you represent various constituencies here, your behaviour will take you to your constituents, they are watching you. Everyone here is mature, why do you not behave honourably. You waste your time and at the end you only ask four questions yet when you come here you want all the Ministers to be present to listen to your noise. Is that what they should be happy for?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Mr. Speaker, you acknowledged me when
I stood up. You acknowledged that I must present.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: To which Minister?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: To Hon. Minister Made.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: You can carry on.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My
supplementary question is directed to Hon. Minister Made. I understood what you said concerning the procurement of maize by GMB. You mentioned that people will be receiving their money and it will be deposited into their bank accounts. In the rural areas, there are farmers without bank accounts and there are challenges for some of them, especially those in Chipinge to go and open an account. They need transport to go and open an account in Checheche or Chipinge. Hon. Minister, we faced challenges during the sale of tobacco because farmers were being charged commission by those people who have bank accounts. What measures have you put in place to make sure that those without accounts are able to get their money in full and are not robbed by those who have bank accounts? Thank you.
*HON. DR. MADE: I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking
this pertinent question that has given me a chance to enlighten this House. Firstly, I want to agree that to farmers who will have started farming, it is difficult for them. What we will do when it comes to tobacco and cotton is, we will look into that issue to assist our farmers. The advantage of opening an account is that the farmer will not have to wait for two or three weeks before they get paid. We would want them to access their money easily. We want to deposit their money into their bank accounts. So, we will consider the issue that he has raised to ensure that we improve the ease of doing business for our farmers so that they do not use middlemen’s accounts. I thank you.
*HON. PHIRI: I will direct my question to the Leader of the
House, Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa. Is there a new vision in Government in terms of investment for parastatals, such as glass companies, dairy …
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Mliswa, when
the Chair rules that you go out, I mean you go out and remain out.
HON. MLISWA: That is not what the Serjeant-At-Arms has said
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: No, no, no. Can you go out.
*HON. PHIRI: I was saying, since my question touches on a number of companies that fall under various Ministries, I will direct my question to the Leader of the House. Is there a new vision in Government as regards investment for parastatals that have closed because what is happening in these companies, it appears that there is disinvestment? What is happening in these organisations is that there is asset stripping. Most of the machinery is now being used as scrap. I will give an example of Kadoma. There is a glass company in Kadoma, which falls under IDC and is now selling equipment, machinery at Cold
Storage Commission and DMB are being sold. What is the new Government policy?
HON. SITHOLE: On a point of order. The Hon. Member is improperly dressed. He is wearing a track bottom in Parliament –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. I do not see anything wrong with his dressing.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. If you have a
nationalistic question, those that are not nationalistic would want to disqualify you from asking the question. I have said we have a glass company which falls under IDC and is now selling machinery and we have the Cold Storage Commission, they are selling machinery and the equipment as scrap. The GMB are selling the bulk tanks that are in Kadoma. Is there a new Government policy as regards these parastatals that are now selling machinery?
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, we have not come up with a new policy in Government as regards investors that can help us prop up our economy. We have sent up pleas to new investors to come in various sectors and at the moment, we have not heard any response in that regard. The asset stripping that has been made reference to, for me to be aware of it, I would not know. I cannot be responsible for guarding these drums. It would be a good thing if there are any anomalies that written submissions be made indicating the particular parastatal and the
Minister responsible will attend.
Hon. Bimha, the relevant Minister is here. Hon. Made, under whose purview GMB runs under, is hearing the news that assets are being stripped. It is not good and it cannot be condoned at all that parastatals are asset stripping. That should be submitted in writing so that the police can arrest the thieves.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I wanted to ask my question to the Minister of Health but in his absence, I
will direct it to the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa. People are crying in our Government hospitals over the issue of our doctors. Private doctors are for the affluent, our ordinary constituents in Gweru and Mkoba have access to Government hospitals. Doctors are on strike, what measures have you put in place, Hon. Vice President to put an end to the issue of our doctors who are now on strike so that they can go and carry out their duties and that our members whom we represent have medical access.
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member said it very well that the doctors are now on strike. He did not say that they have been sent on strike by Government; they have gone on strike on their own volition. Discussions are ongoing with those workers who are on strike.
They have grievances which they would want Government to address. Yesterday, we were in Cabinet and we heard their grievances and some of them have been attended to but others are still outstanding. They are still in the middle of coming up with a solution. Myself, all those that are in the august House and all our citizens wish that our doctors be in our hospitals and attend to those that are ill. As Government, we will do everything possible to ensure that their genuine grievances are looked into and addressed. I thank you.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Hon. Vice President, my question is, as you are undertaking these discussions with our doctors, nature cannot wait for a person to fall sick. I did not say that as Government, you sent them on strike but I said, as Government, what measures have you taken to address the short term problems. How are the patients going to be assisted whilst you are having your discussion? I thank you.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Indeed Hon. Speaker, when one falls
ill, those that are qualified to treat are the ones who treat. The ones that are qualified to treat patients are doctors who are on strike. We are discussing with the doctors, urging them to come back to work. We have had several doctors that have come from various areas that have come to assist. I did say as Government, we are concerned because a person falls ill any time and they require assistance only to find out that doctors are on strike. It is our wish that our doctors go back to work. The doctors are saying they are interested in working but they would want their grievances addressed.
In our negotiations with them, we informed them what we are capable of doing. In the mean time as we are negotiating, people fall ill; it is a problem we are facing as Government. That is why we are doing everything possible to ensure that the doctors go back to work. We would envisage a situation where they would resume their duties while we address their grievances because this is an issue that cuts across the entire nation. Those that are in the rural and those in the urban, those that have money and those that do not have, it is our wish that the strike be quickly resolved so they can go back to work.
Some assistance has come from the Army and from the Prisons and Correctional Services to assist in Government hospitals whilst these ones are on strike to alleviate this problem.
HON. HOLDER: To the Leader of the House, when you had Cabinet yesterday, you were updated about the plight of what is happening in the Health department. When you were being updated about the plight, did any story come up about the medical aid, PSMAS that does not work in any of our institutions. We are contributing religiously but they are not accepted and we are still paying cash. Can we be updated on that?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Holder, that is a different question from the original question and you may ask it as a separate question on its own.
*HON. P. D. SIBANDA: The Vice President has said they are taking measures to redress the issue. The problem of doctors has been ongoing for the past two decades when you have been ruling and ruling and ruling and going outside the country to get your own treatment. Hon. Minister of the lion totem, what has caused the Government to fail to resolve this problem that is affecting millions of Zimbabweans, but not you the affluent leaders who go outside for medical attention. Why have you failed through the years to resolve the issue of these doctors which dates back to 2004? I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Hon. Minister, before our advent, the doctors were there. Whenever they were dissatisfied, they would be on strike and issues would then be resolved. We came and took over and doctors go on strike and up to today, we are still resolving issues after they would have gone on strike. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. HOLDER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to extend question time.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir in terms of Order No. 69 (d). We made a request through this House for clarity on the issuance of rice by the Hon. Minister Mupfumira. We requested that we be given a list of the Hon. Members who have been recipients to the allocations of the 3000 tonnes of rice and the Hon. Speaker Adv. Mudenda, agreed to that effect that the Hon. Minister would come to do the presentation of the allocations of the rice of the beneficiaries.
There was an argument in terms of the allocation of the rice which was taking place across the country. It was cutting along this issue of political factions whereby there was this allegation that the G40 faction was benefiting more in terms of the rice allocation as compared to Lacoste and the MDC was the worst affected, though it was now encroaching to the Hon. Members of Parliament of ZANU-PF
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Honourable, what is your
point of order then?
HON. MUNENGAMI: My request is for the statement to that effect where the Speaker accepted that, that presentation would be done by the Hon. Minister regarding the presentation of the rice which was done. It is almost two months now and I am not sure whether it is a challenge just to get that list from these 270 Hon. Members of Parliament. Is that a challenge to a Minister with Principal Directors, Permanent Secretary, a Deputy Minister, Aids and so forth?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr.
Speaker. Mr. Speaker Sir, a request was made for a Ministerial
Statement on the distribution of food. I do not know whether the Hon. Member was in the House or not, but a full Ministerial Statement was given to that effect – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Just for the information, Mr. Speaker Sir, of the Hon. Member, just in case he was not here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order at the back.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: The issue of rice is very clear. We distributed 1 750 tonnes of rice to the rural provinces and they were supposed to be distributed to all constituencies through the Drought Relief Committee, not my Ministry and this was done to the constituencies through the Provincial Governors.
However, Mr. Speaker Sir, for your information and the information of the Hon. Members, it is not Government policy for the Hon. Members of Parliament, whatever party affiliation they belong to, to distribute. The distribution is done by Government through Social Welfare. I will insist that we will not give to individual Members of Parliament. They go through Social Welfare, through the Provincial
Administrator’s office. So, I would ask the Hon. Members to find out from their provincial administration where the rice has gone to. It has gone to people. It is not coming to any Member of Parliament, whether it is ZANU PF or MDC. It has to go through the official structures.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a statement was issued and I am just reiterating just in case he missed out. I thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. We have noticed back home that the rice which the Minister is saying has been distributed to the less privileged, to the people back home, it is just two cups. Minister, when you say you are giving people food, can the Government make sure you give them adequate food. That is mockery. When I got home, Mr. Speaker, I found out that my neighbours who had gone to collect that rice, it was just two cups. That is not good enough. Hon. Minister, please take note, let us not take advantage of people. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. You said the rice
was sent to rural constituencies. It is not clear you are either lying or you do not know what happens – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
HON. KWARAMBA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: He has not finished.
HON. KWARAMBA: It is a point of order in respect of what he is saying – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please! Hon. Khumalo,
I do not need your assistance. Thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, the
Hon. Member should address the Chair and not the Hon. Minister.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The point of order is appropriate, Hon. Member, please address the Chair.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I am saying in December 2016, rice was distributed in the rural areas and it was also brought into the urban constituencies. ZANU PF structures distributed the rice and said it had come from President Mugabe. But, she is saying that the officials from the Social Welfare Department are the ones who are distributing the rice. The Minister is lying to this august House and the country at large. She should say the truth.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, I think you will recall that the Minister came and gave a Statement in this august House and we gave Hon. Members a chance to ask questions and put additions and seek clarity. If you now want the Minister to come up with a repeat of that Statement, you may so request.
Hon. Chibaya, what I can do is to give you the benefit of the doubt only on that issue so that the Minister can answer but she gave a Ministerial Statement and you were supposed to have raised your questions then. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and allow her to answer the question, and then we are done.
Hon. Minister you may answer if you wish but we are not going back to that issue.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank the
Hon. Member for the question. If we say rural provinces – we have ten provinces and we have two metropolitan provinces which are Harare and Bulawayo and eight are rural provinces. When we say eight rural provinces we will be referring to those rural provinces which are eight in number. Towards the end of the year, Government resolved that periurban provinces, Harare and Bulawayo be issued but originally it was meant for rural constituencies. Gweru is the provincial capital for
Midlands. I wish God had allowed us to grow rice in Zimbabwe. -HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Speaker, as Zimbabwe, we are a
Christian nation and our Constitution says as much. I just want to implore the Minister to desist from bringing in the name of God into this. In fact, she must know God herself. –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]-
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. I have
already made a ruling that the Minister spoke on this issue and I am not going to give anyone some more time.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have made a ruling Hon. Gonese.
HON. GONESE: But Mr. Speaker, I think that any ruling must be predicated upon the proceedings and what transpired immediately prior to that ruling being made. I believe that when the point of order was raised, the position was that in response to questions which were being asked in this House about the list relating to rice specifically and not the statement which was given in this House which was just on mitigation. It was in response to that, that the ruling was made that a Ministerial Statement must be given to this august House specifically dealing with the beneficiaries and the list of distributions which were made. That is not the Ministerial Statement which is he is referring to.
I believe Mr. Speaker that in all fairness, to the people of this country, the point still remains valid that that a Ministerial Statement is due to be given in this august House so that the people of Zimbabwe can be appraised of the specific distribution. It is not helpful Mr. Speaker for the Hon. Minister to come and mislead this august House and this is what is causing the commotion. I believe that the Hon. Minister must take the people of Zimbabwe seriously and take this august House seriously and do justice to the pertinent issues which are confronting our nation.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of order
is about the issue that has been raised. The Minister was asked a question and she was about to respond and the MDC MPs started making noise. We would want to hear the Minister in silence and not noise. They should give the Minister a chance to answer the question.
Thank you.
*HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Speaker, we will not listen to Hon. Mahoka because she insults the Vice President of the country and nothing of substance will come from her.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order both sides, may we have
order in the Chamber please? I have already made a ruling and that ruling stands. Hon. Maridadi, you are a senior Member please.
*HON. MAJAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The issue of rice is problematic – whether it is MDC or ZANU PF, everyone wants to consume rice.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Sibanda.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order. Hon. Speaker, my point of order is that question 1 has been on the Order Paper since last year. Apparently, it is a question that is so pertinent to the people that I represent. I seek your indulgence and that of the Leader of Government Business, that we pray that this question be dealt with without so much delay because it has been on the Order Paper for over six months now.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you. It will be brought to the
attention of the Minister to be present to answer the question.
HON. MAONDERA; Thank you Mr. Speaker. A few weeks ago,
the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dokora said that he would bring to the House the new and old curriculum. Maybe he believes that we may forget. When are we going to get this curriculum because people are disgruntled about the new curriculum that you want to introduce.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member if you
remember, the Minister in this Chamber said he was going to organise a workshop. So, he has not done that workshop. You will hear when he is ready.
*HON. MAONDERA: Yes, he said we would organise a
workshop but he also said he would bring the new curriculum and the old curriculum as well for us to make a comparison and confirm if it is the Nziramasanga Commission recommendations.
*THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, why do we not wait
and do that process during the same time?
The Minister being absent to respond to question No. 8.
+HON. MKANDLA: Hon. Speaker, this question has been on the Order Paper since November, last year. The Minister had not turned up since then. I am therefore, requesting the Minister and respond because people are waiting for an answer in the Constituency.
POLICY MEASURES TO PROMOTE DOMESTIC TOURISM
- HON. CHIMANIKIRE asked the Minister of Tourism and
Hospitality Industry, the policy measures that have been put in place by the Ministry to promote domestic tourism and explain whether domestic tourism has improved since 2016.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA AND
BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. MUSHOWE): on behalf of
THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY
(HON. ENG. MZEMBI): Madam Speaker, the National Tourism Policy recognises the importance of the participation of the locals in tourism and thus the need to develop the domestic market. The domestic tourism market remains the backbone of the Zimbabwe tourism sector, despite the current economic challenges are facing.
In this regard, the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Industry together with Zimbabwe Tourism Authority engage in different activities in the country in order to educate our people on the holiday and investment opportunities in the tourism sector. The Government efforts to promote domestic tourism, His Excellency, the President, Cde. R. G. Mugabe initiated ‘know your Zimbabwe’ campaign in 2014. This initiative is aimed at incentivising locals to travel within the country and visit major tourist destinations in Zimbabwe.
In line with this campaign, the tourism industry has developed attractive packages for local people which include special hotel rates for city hotels being offered by leading tourist groups. Preferential hotel rates were also put in place to attract local travellers. Participation at local fares, such as the Zimbabwe International Trade fair, Provincial
Agricultural Shows in Harare, Mutare, Midlands, Masvingo, Bindura , Marondera and Chinhoyi. Cultural festive are some of the activities in increasing tourism awareness and bring the tourism products to the people.
The Ministry has developed a national tourism master plan, which is a framework to guide tourism development in the country. About 10 tourism development zones (TDZs) were identified for both domestic and international investors. In order to support local players in the industry, the Ministry is in the process of developing a tourism revolving fund. This will help to improve the tourism product and make it more accessible to the domestic people as well as attract domestic investors.
Realising that our children do not have a basic holiday culture, a schools educational programme was launched to build a culture of taking holidays among the children under the rubric ‘Catch Them
Young,’ as the school children are the future tourists.
In order to further promote domestic tourism, the Ministry is in the process of developing and revitalising Community Based Tourism (CBTs) projects with the assistance from Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA). So far, 80 projects were identified and four pilot CBTs were selected to inform the CBT manual to be finalised in May, 2017. These include Tengenenge Arts and Culture, Chesvingo Cultural Village, Bulawayo Township Tour and Girezi Eco-tourism. These projects are wholly owned and manned by communities and we are expecting both local and international tourists to visit these areas.
This will also benefit communities within the vicinity.
The local business tourism market segment is active throughout the year, through Meetings, Incentive travel, Conference and Exhibitions (MICE) while the leisure component is also pronounced during the public holidays and festive seasons. There is a great potential in the domestic tourism market that could sustain our economy if it is anchored by both promotional and empowerment financial support. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question to the Hon. Minister is; seeing that domestic tourism is a new product on the market, there are interested people in different communities who want to participate –
Hon. Toffa having been speaking to the gallery.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Hon. Toffa, can
you please address the Chair.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Seeing that domestic tourism is a new product, how do people who want to get involved in promoting…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon.
Kanhanga?
HON. KANHANGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is that domestic tourism is not a new product at all. It has been there since the formation of the Ministry of Tourism. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I was going to allow the Hon. Minister to respond after the Hon. Member had finished asking for clarification. The Hon. Minister will clarify that.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. It may not be a new product to the Government, but it is a new product to our local populace. My question relates to the fact that, I have been approached by a number of people who want to get involved but they do not know where they should go. I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister if his office is open to new players? As stated in his response, there is a lot of potential, what can new players do to participate? Thank you.
HON. MUSHOWE: Let me thank the Hon. Member for a very
useful question. It is true that domestic tourism is not a new
phenomenon in Zimbabwe, but it is also true that very few of our people have been participating in domestic tourism for basically two reasons; many people have been carrying the notion that tourism was for foreigners, tourists, as the name suggests, yet, this is a product that should be enjoyed first and foremost by our people. There has been a lot of promotional activities that have been taking place to ensure and entice our people to visit areas of tourist attractions. However, if there are people out there who want to know how and where they could go and even try to understand what it will cost them to visit centres of tourist attraction, my Ministry and ZTA are always available to entertain such enquiries and it is the business of ZTA to make sure that tourism is promoted. We would welcome such inquiries if they are there. I thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not think my question was heard clearly or the Hon. Minister did not understand it well. I am talking about people who want to participate who have something to offer as part of the product. For example, somebody who has a farm which has tourism products like heritage sites and so on. How can they be part of that, not those who want to go and visit? Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I also thought the Hon. Minister
was very clear that his offices, the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality
Industry and ZTA are open to those people to come and invest in the Ministry. However, I will allow him to clarify.
HON. MUSHOWE: Thank you Madam Speaker. You had spoken
for me very well. I thank you.
HON. ZVIDZAI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I wish to thank the Hon. Minister for a battery of initiatives that he has spoken to around domestic tourism. However, I would like to ask the Hon. Minister to indulge me and give a statistical expose of the benefits of the changes or improvements that have arisen from all these initiatives. I can see kuti dzanzwa moto dzakutaurirana ikoko kuti hanzi – this is a written question, this is not a …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are only
allowed to use one language. You started with English and you will explain everything that you want in English. In addition, just ask your question and do not listen to anyone. Speak to the Chair.
HON. ZVIDZAI: I would like to get a statistical expose of the benefits so that I can read whether this is just a pie in the sky or a big wish-list. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will allow the Hon. Minister to
respond but in terms of statistics, I think he would also need more time to go and do a research so that he will give reliable and correct statistics in the House.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. DR. MUSHOHWE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. ENG. MZEMBI): Thank
you Madam Speaker. I wish the Hon. Member could ask the original question because what Hon. Chimanikire asked for is different from what you are asking for. So, you should come up with a new question if you have a different question. I answered the question asked by Hon.
Chimanikire.
HON. ZVIDZAI: On a point of order. Madam Speaker, the Minister is simply refusing to answer a question that is very clear. If you look at the original question, it talks to ‘improved’ and talks to ‘promotion’. These are issues around change developmental issues and I do not see why he thinks there is irregularity with respect to this question. If he does not know, he must simply say I do not know.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I will not allow
the Hon. Members and the Ministers to respond to each other because I am the one chairing this session. The Hon. Minister has no capacity to bring statistics at this moment and juncture. So, I ask you Hon. Member to write down that question and put it on the Order Paper so that the Hon. Minister will respond to it next time.
ZIMBABWE HOTEL ROOM RATES VIS-A-VIS THE SADC TREND
- HON. CHIMANIKIRE asked the Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry to inform the house whether Zimbabwe hotel room rates vis-a-vis the SADC trend on hotel rates are comparable or competitive.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. DR. MUSHOHWE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY
INDUSTRY (HON. ENG. MZEMBI): May I once again thank Hon.
Chimanikire for his question. Let me begin by giving you a regional average room rates by star rating.
Table 1. Regional Average Room Rates by Star Rating
Country |
0-2 Star |
3 Star |
4 Star |
5 Star |
Angola |
150 |
214 |
355 |
439 |
Botswana |
61 |
90 |
154 |
588 |
Malawi |
110 |
152 |
187 |
245 |
Mauritius |
60 |
97 |
246 |
469 |
Mozambique |
107 |
125 |
190 |
281 |
Namibia |
84 |
115 |
127 |
368 |
Seychelles |
105 |
172 |
259 |
504 |
South Africa |
58 |
104 |
154 |
415 |
Zambia |
28 |
80 |
295 |
389 |
Zimbabwe |
79 |
129 |
149 |
232 |
Average |
84 |
128 |
212 |
393 |
Zimbabwean hotel room rates are generally competitive as shown in table 1 above. What makes Zimbabwe appear expensive is lack of value for money, for example, a 3 Star hotel in South Africa and
Seychelles is offering a product better than a 5 Star hotel in Zimbabwe. To this effect, standards and services of a five star hotel in South Africa would be way above the standards of a five star hotel in Zimbabwe. In addition, the Zimbabwe hotel rates may appear seemingly high because of the exchange currency rate with other countries’ currency for example US dollars versus South African Rand.
The level of hotel standards in Zimbabwe has generally gone down owing to economic challenges prevailing in the country. These challenges have also made it difficult for the destination to attract investors for new hotel developments in the country especially in the 4
to 5 star range. However, Government has put in place measures to address these challenges through the introduction of Special Economic Zones where incentives are provided to attract investment. In addition, there are Statutory Instruments in place to assist tourism players to refurbish their properties and uplift operating standards. I thank you Madam Speaker.
CONTRACTS OF EMPLOYMENT IN THE SERVICE OF THE
GOVERNMENT
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Justice Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, why some individuals are allowed to have contracts of employment in the service of the Government, as is the case with Rita Makarau the Secretary for Judicial Services Commission who is also the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC).
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, Justice Rita Makarau was appointed the Zimbabwe Electoral
Commission (ZEC) Chairperson by His Excellency, the President of the
Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe in terms of Section
238 (1) (a) of the Constitution. This is done after consultation with the
Judicial Service Commission and the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. In terms of Section 238 (2), for one to be eligible for appointment as the Chairperson of ZEC, they have to be a judge or a former judge or a person qualified for appointment as a judge. The current Chairperson was a former judge and this means she is totally eligible to be appointed.
Madam Speaker, the disqualifications that are contained in terms of Section 240 of the Constitution do not apply to the current
Chairperson of ZEC. In so far as her post as Secretary of the Judicial
Services Commission (JSC) is concerned, Section 10 of the Judicial
Services Act is the guiding provision. In terms of that Section, the
Secretary of the JSC is appointed by the Judicial Service Commission, which Commission is provided for under Section 189 of the Constitution.
Madam Speaker, it is therefore, clear from the constitutional and legislative provisions I have alluded to, that there is a difference in the appointment and functions of the Chairperson of ZEC and the Secretary of the JSC. Whilst the former is a presidential appointment in terms of the Constitution, the latter is an appointment by the JSC in terms of the Judicial Service Act. There is no law that precludes one from holding both positions if they are fit and proper and meet the requisite eligibility criteria. On behalf of the Minister of Justice I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, my supplementary question is…
HON. J. TSHUMA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not know how the Hon. Member gets to answer a supplementary question because he is not the Minister – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I think Hon. Tshuma, you are out of order because the Hon. Minister is representing the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and he has got the capacity to respond to all the questions, as he has also given the answer to the House.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon, Speaker. Justice Makarau, as Secretary of the Judicial Services Commission, is a senior member of a body that is charged with administering the courts in this country. Similarly, sitting as the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, Hon. Speaker, is there no conflict of interest in the two positions that Justice Makarau is occupying in the fact that, as the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, if there is a dispute pertaining to elections, the disputants in those elections will have to approach the same courts in which she is basically the manager in charge of managing the courts. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think, Hon. Sibanda, the
question does not arise because the Minister was clear in his answer that in the Constitution, there is no mandate that actually specifically states that one cannot hold those two positions because the other one is a constitutional presidential appointment while the other is a Judiciary Act appointment. So, I think the Minister has answered your question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I think with all due respect, you are out of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am being very honest, the Hon. Speaker is out of order. This is a genuine question that deserves a response from the Hon.
Minister and not from the Speaker. There is no need for the Hon. Speaker to shield the Minister from responding to that question. The question is a genuine one that has got nothing to do with appointments.
It is a question that has got to do with the manner that the Chairperson of ZEC, also being the Secretary of the Judicial Services Commission, discharges her responsibilities. It has got nothing to do with appointments. Therefore, I believe that the Hon. Minister should answer that question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, I think you are
the one who is out of order because the answer from the Minister was clear. If you have a separate question which needs a separate answer, then submit a written question and the Minister will provide the answer.
HON. MASUKU: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think the question from Hon. Sibanda arises because he is talking about the same person who is Rita Makarau, who is the Chairperson of ZEC and at the same time, she is the Secretary for the Judiciary Services Commission. The issue here is about the conflict of interest. So, the question still is relevant.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Okay, I will allow the
Minister to respond to the question, although I personally think that the question does not arise.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, you are very right in the response that you have given. In actual fact, the construction here is speculative construction that they are giving. I think that my answer was very clear. Thank you.
FOOD DISTRIBUTION IN NKETA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare to explain why food distribution in Nketa Constituency is done by ZANU PF party members, namely Mr. Keiza Mdlongwa, Mrs. Constance Ndlovu, Ms Mitsho Ndlovu, Ms.
Sibonginkosi Maphosa, Ms. Nkiwane from outside Nketa Constituency, Ms. Noweta from Northend and Mr. Dube.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE):
Madam Speaker, it is our understanding that the Hon. Member is referring to the grain distribution that is being implemented by Government under the state of disaster following the severe effects of the El Nino induced drought. Our response will accordingly be restricted to the current grain assistance under the Government Food Deficit Mitigation Programme.
Allow me, Madam Speaker, from the outset, to inform this august
House that food distribution under the Government Food Mitigation Programme is not operated on partisan line – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Allow
the Hon. Minister to respond to the question.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: At the provincial level, I reiterate again, the programme is coordinated by the Provincial Drought Relief Committee chaired by the Provincial Administrator. The District Drought Relief Committee is chaired by the District Administrator and the whole Drought Relief Committee is chaired by the Councillor or other elected local leaders at that level.
With reference to the Bulawayo Metropolitan Province at Ward level, the Drought Relief Committee is chaired by an officer from the District Administrator’s Office.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is very short and precise. The Minister is not speaking to the question. The question is so clear. It is requesting why specific names have been put across. Why are they doing the distribution? It is not a request for a workshop. Who are these people? Ngatimbomirai zveworkshop kani.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mutseyami. I have
heard your point of order. I want to make a ruling. Let us give the Minister a chance to finish his response so that we know if he has not answered all the questions clearly.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
was explaining that with reference to the Bulawayo Metropolitan Province, at ward level, the Drought Relief Committee is chaired by officers from the District Administrator’s Office while the secretariat is from the Department of Social Welfare in my Ministry. The other members are representatives from Government Ministries, the Bulawayo Residents Association and Community Representatives chosen by the respective communities and from other partner organisations operating in Bulawayo. Again I reiterate, no political affiliation is considered for membership into the Ward Drought Committees. Representatives are chosen by their respective organisations.
Following issues raised concerning partisan distribution of food in Nketa Constituency, investigations were carried out to establish how grain is distributed in the constituency. The Provincial Administrator,
District Administrator and some of the local leadership were consulted.
It was established that all distributions for Nketa Ward 25 and part of Ward 24 are carried out at Nketa Hall in Ward 25. Currently, there are five hundred households from both wards receiving grain assistance monthly at this ward distribution centre. The actual distribution of the grain is carried out by the Drought Relief team led by officers from the Department of Social Welfare.
The Ward Drought Relief members who are responsible for mobilising beneficiaries and for monitoring of the whole distribution exercise for this centre are Ms. Sibonginkosi Maphosa, Ms. Mitsho Ndlovu and Mrs. Constance Ndlovu from Wards 24 and 25. These members were chosen by the local communities to represent them in the Committee. They are coordinated by Ms. Eulyses Nowedza who resides in Northend.
We were made to understand that the selection process for these representatives were transparent and non-partisan. Our investigations also established that Mr. Keiza Mdhlongwa, Ms. Nkiwane and Mr. Dube are not part of the Distribution Committee and they are not known at the distribution centre.
In conclusion, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for bringing this matter to our attention. The Provincial and District Drought Relief Committees will continue to monitor food distribution in the respective areas of Bulawayo to ensure that all the needy have access to the food. I thank you.
HON. MASUKU: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Minister has
said the community leaders were asked about this issue on investigation.
I am part of that community, I am a leader and I am an interested person. Why was I not consulted about the issue because from what he is reading, there is no truth. It is far from the truth. Even the ward that you are talking about is not at Ward 25. So, you were given false information.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Masuku, please speak to
the Chair.
HON. MASUKU: Yes, you were given false information Hon.
Minister.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The
information we have...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members on my
left side, you have asked the question and you want the Minister to respond. So let us give him the opportunity to respond to your question.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: The information we have from
the Drought Relief Committee as set up is that the MP and Councillors from those wards were consulted. If it is a specific issue that Hon. Masuku is disputing that consultation, he can come to my office. We will raise the office and try and find out exactly what transpired. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Masuku, the Ministry
will make a follow-up.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Minister
says these Committees must be very apolitical. In the event that the community chooses a political activist to be part of the Committee, what remedies do they have as a Ministry?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
mentioned clearly that the selection process of the people on the Committee is not based on party affiliation. It will be difficult for anyone in this country to stand up and say so and so is affiliated to this party for as long as that is not the criteria that is being used for the selection process. The selection process is based on competency. What the person does or the person’s affiliation at the end of the day is immaterial, but should that person allow the party affiliation to affect the discharge of their operation and duties, then by all means you should raise up all those issues and we will take due cognisance of that and remedial action can be taken.
HON. MLILO: Thank you very much Speaker. My
supplementary question is in Cowdry Park Ward 28. We have got a councillor by the name of Collette Ndlovu or Nkomo. In Pumula Ward, I think it is Ward 26, we also have a councillor there. Those councillors are distributing rice and as they are distributing rice, they are sloganeering. That rice is only being distributed to the members of the MDC. Could the Minister elaborate on that one?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
thank Hon. Mlilo for that question. That is an area of great concern and as I said, food should never be distributed on party lines. So, we will obviously take up these allegations just like we take up the other allegations concerning the other parties and investigate, and try to get to the bottom of it and then make sure that food is not distributed along partisan lines. I thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON.
- MADE), the House adjourned at Five Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday 28th February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 21st February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. MAZIWISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. My point of order is in respect of Standing Order No. 68 (d), a point of privilege. Mr. Speaker we are what we are today, all of us, united in our diversities as black, white people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker, let me go straight to the point. We are here as Members of Parliament of this country – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]
Hon. Members having stood up.
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): Hon.
Members, please resume your seats.
HON. MAZIWISA: We are here because of President Robert
Mugabe...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please resume your
seat.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, when you say you
have got a point of order, let it be a point of order.
HON. MAZIWISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, it is a point of privilege. Today as Members of Parliament, we are who we are in large part if not inclusively because of a man, President Robert Mugabe – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- who is celebrating his birthday today. We want to sing, we want to celebrate President
Mugabe’s birthday - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - congratulate and sing happy birthday to President Robert Mugabe – [HON. MEMBERS: Haivhiyiwe, haichekwi, takapinda ne Vote, we will
not allow that.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, take your seats. Both sides please, when I call for order, respect the Chair. Hon. Member, the matter is not provided for in our Standing Orders, it can only proceed with unanimous concurrence of the whole House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Hon. Members, the Speaker has made a ruling.
HON. MLILO: I have a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLILO: I do not have a point of order but I have a point of privilege. If you give me an opportunity to air it out I would appreciate it. My point of privilege is, we need to appreciate where we are going – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order! Order Hon. Members!
Without an exception, when I say order, I need order maintained in this House. Hon. Mlilo, I have already made a ruling and you stand up again repeating the same thing. Resume your seat.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker.
Order, order. Hon. Members, we do
not want to take this House as a circus. When the Speaker has made a ruling, it must be respected.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Mr. Speaker, it is a different issue
altogether.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. I have heard someone
singing there. Who is singing? Hon. Members to my left, who was singing – [HON. MEMBERS: Ngaabude!] - Order, order! Your point of privilege should not be the same as the one I have just ruled on.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. On a point
of privilege, I want to acknowledge and celebrate the life of a woman who has not only stood out advancing the women’s rights but also advanced the education of women and men of Zimbabwe, Professor Kurasha – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Mr. Speaker Sir, we all know that Professor Kurasha was the champion who started the Zimbabwe Open University (ZOU), which we have all benefited from. I am also a beneficiary of ZOU.
Order. I did not allow you to debate.
I said you should be brief.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: That is the brief that I am giving. Thank you Mr. Speaker, I am talking of a woman who advanced the education of women and men of this country – [AN HON. MEMBER: It is now a motion.] – No, it is not a motion. I was just saying one statement.
Thank you.
HON. MAZIVISA: Mr. Speaker, with your assistance, I just want to get the difference between a congratulatory and a condolence message
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Can you take your seat. Order,
order.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. My
question is, the Hon. Member has posed a question and you have not given us a ruling on the difference between the two issues. So, we want the meaning and we want to celebrate the life of the President in this
House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Mutseyami, may you leave
the House please – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order in the House, Hon. Members to my right! Hon. Mupfumi, when I am talking, please respect the Chair. Order, order. Hon. Mahoka, when the Chair has made a ruling, that ruling must be respected. On Professor
Kurasha’s issue, it is about someone informing the House that she is now late. On the other motion, I asked him to submit a motion where everyone can debate because it can take the whole month or the whole week for people to debate.
HON. GUZAH: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. GUZAH: My point of order Mr. Speaker, was with regards to Hon. Mutseyami who has now left the House.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Is he in the House now – [HON.
MEMBERS: Where is he? He is not even here. You are out of order.] – You are not the spokesperson. I can also see with my eyes, he is not here.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 6,
2016]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Reading of the National Competitiveness Commission Bill.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. CHAMISA: I am not so sure if what the Hon. Minister has indicated is quite consistent with our expectation as a House because the last time we had the Minister on the floor, he had indicated that he was going to consider the submissions we had made. We were under the impression that...
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. HOLDER: Gara pasi Chamisa nditaure point of order. My point of order is that Hon. Chamisa is mentioning what the Hon. Minister is supposed to be doing but the debate was adjourned. Saka toda kucontinya debate iroro.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, you are out of order Hon.
Holder.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move
that the debate on motion on the Second Reading of the National Competitiveness Commission Bill (H.B. 6, 2016) which was adjourned on the 16th February, to today, be further adjourned to the second March, 2017. Thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 2nd March, 2017.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
SOCIAL DIALOGUE DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN GOVERNMENT,
BUSINESS AND LABOUR
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. You recall that last week on Wednesday, Hon.
Mpariwa asked me a specific question on the Social Dialogue
Discussions and the TNF. I had responded that there was a motion which was supposed to be reinstated on the Order Paper and I would give an adequate response to that motion. The mover of that motion, Hon. Hlongwane has since been appointed Minister in Government and the seconder of that motion Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo has also been appointed a Government Minister.
So, in the absence of somebody who moved that motion, I am persuaded to submit a ministerial statement in response to those issues. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to acknowledge the mover of the motion, Hon. Hlongwane and seconded by Dr. Gumbo. That motion was enthusiastically debated by Hon. Chikwinya, Hon. Tarusenga, Hon.
Cross and Hon. Matangira. The motion is a clarion call on Government to initiate a Social Dialogue Discussion between Government, Business and Labour and for my Ministry to activate the TNF comprising the said parties.
As we respond to this motion and the attendant debate, we are encouraged that all contributors rose above partisan politics and spoke to putting economic interest of the nation first and above all. We concur with Hon. Cross that as our economy grows; it lifts everybody, those in opposition and those in Government. We again agree that our potential as a people, economy and as a nation is enormous as it is important to highlight that Government, Business and Labour might on face value appear to be coming from diametrically opposed fundamentals, economic growth and prosperity can only be achieved through funding goal congruency in this tripartite agreement.
They are difficult issues but these difficult issues have to be tackled head on. There are issues of lack of trust and diminished confidence in each other. It is imperative that this divide be reduced. We agree with the House that the key to prosperity is found in consultation, consensus and agreement, as has been submitted in debating this motion. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is therefore both heartening and welcome to respond to shared values, common purpose and a shared vision.
Hon. Members spoke a lot about a social dialogue platform and/or establishing a social dialogue framework. It is refreshing to reflect that the Government, Business and Labour representatives have since 1998, established the TNF as a means to pursue dialogue on socio economic issues with a national outlook. Although unlegislated, the TNF has managed to bring together the tripartite partners to discuss pertinent issues affecting the country. In the early years of its existence, the TNF began discussions on what has now come to be called the Kadoma Declaration towards a shared national, economic and social vision which was concluded in 2009, and launched at the highest level by His Excellency, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe on the 26th February,
The TNF has made several attempts to conclude a social contract through adoption of various protocols aimed at enhancing economic growth. On the first of June, 2007, the TNF adopted the following protocols; the first one was on prices and income stabilisation, restoration of production viability and the last one was on mobilisation, pricing and management of foreign currency. Mr. Speaker Sir, given the economic hardships and mistrust among the tripartite partners prevailing at that time, the implementation of the protocols could not take off.
The TNF later renewed its commitment to the dialogue process in 2009. The Kadoma Declaration seeks to address the country risk factor given the negative perception that investors and the international community have on Zimbabwe. In achieving its objective, the
Declaration outlines the roles and responsibilities of each of the tripartite partners.
The Declaration identifies areas in need of intervention and spells out the action that should be taken. Issues such as delay in policy implementation, corruption, unsustainable micro-economic fundamentals and bad country image are highlighted. The implementation of the Kadoma Declaration was designed to be complemented by specific protocols that I have already mentioned.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with regards to the implementation of the Declaration, to date it has been disseminated through publicity campaigns in five provinces which are; Harare, Bulawayo, Manicaland (Mutare), Midlands (Gweru) and Mashonaland West Province (Chinhoyi). Whilst a lot of progress has been made in the following areas;
- strengthening of the institutions of governance,
- empowerment of indigenisation,
- depoliticisation of the workplace,
- stability in the micro-economic fundamentals, and
- eliminating election related violence
Other areas are still outstanding such as; contradictory policies statements, corruption and use of informatory language and demonisation and these I insist, have to be addressed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, having due regard to the foregoing, my Ministry has convened consultative meetings with the Tripartite partners with a view to conclude a social contract. The Government team of the TNF met on the 2nd of December, 2016 and finalised its submissions which was then discussed by the parties on the 9th of December, 2016. All parties have agreed to work together towards achieving this collective goal. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is envisaged that the social contract will address fiscal and monitory policy implementation. Prices and incomes stabilisation, sectorial productivity enhancement in areas such agriculture, mining, manufacturing and tourism, among others. The following issues were discussed and agreed as possible ways of stabilising the economy and should be actively pursued and these include:
- Promotion of investment;
- diaspora engagement;
- implementation of Sustainable Development Goals,
- implementation of Special Economic Zones;
- import substitution through implementation of Statutory
Instrument 64 of 2016 on control of goods, that is, the open general import licence;
- decrease in local tariff and utility costs which make locally manufactured products expensive. The aim is to ensure that locally manufactured goods are affordable while also being of good quality;
- addressing low productivity levels, high cost of money, that is interests rates; corruption and the high Government wage bill and parastatal reform;
- the need to expedite the implementation of principles of the easeof-doing business in order to attract investors and lastly;
- the need for regaining trust from other clusters is also underscored.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in light of the work of the TNF, its membership has made substantive progress in coming up with a draft TNF Bill to legislate the work of the TNF. The Draft Bill which will be presented in this august House, seeks to enhance accountability within the TNF. With your permission, I will now take the House through the guideline principles envisaged in the TNF Bill:
- parties to the TNF – the proposed TNF Act shall define the parties to social dialogue and provide for the tripartite membership of
Government, organise business and organise labour at the TNF. Other stakeholders maybe co-opted into specific TNF deliberations whenever issues that require their expertise are under consideration;
- group autonomy and tripartite participation.- Mr. Speaker Sir, the proposed TNF Act shall provide for the manner of representation of parties at the TNF with appointees freely and independently chosen by the respective tripartite constituencies. The Act will
bind specified members to participate in good faith in the work of the forum at appointed times and in a prescribed manner;
- equality of parties and mutual ownership of social dialogue process - Speaker Sir, it is our intention that the proposed Act will provide for the equality of the parties through participation of the tripartite constituencies in equal members within the TNF structures. This would foster stakeholder commitment and mutual ownership to the social dialogue process;
- subordination of sectoral interest to national interests - Speaker Sir, it is of utmost importance that parties to the TNF should put national interest ahead of sectoral interest. In this regard, the TNF Act shall provide for the observance by parties of fundamental principles that guide the social dialogue process for it to be meaningful, sustainable and effective. The fundamental principles include the subordination of sectoral interests to national interests as well as the exercise of mutual respect and accountability to one another;
- the TNF structures – the proposed Act shall identify the costructures of the forum and prescribe the functions of each level, thereby establishing a clear chain of command to facilitate accountability, coordination and efficiency. The proposed Act shall outline the structures of the TNF. Presently the main TNF is the supreme policy and decision making arm of the forum which is supported by three policy clusters that are divided into social, economic and labour market policy issues. These policy clusters are supported by a technical committee which does all the technical work of the TNF and is representative of the TNF stakeholders. The secretarial work is backstocked by a TNF secretariat;
- working methods of the TNF – the proposed TNF Act shall provide for the working methods on how issues should be tabled for discussion and the manner in which agreed positions will be referred to Cabinet for approval and implementation as legally binding on the parties. The agenda of the TNF is to be set by a tripartite agenda setting Committee;
- chairing and co-chairing of TNF meetings – Mr. Speaker Sir, the tripartite constituents have agreed that the TNF shall be chaired by Government in line with the practice of the International Labour Organisation at its international labour conferences and governing body sessions. The TNF Act shall provide for the duties of the TNF’s chairperson and co-chairpersons drawn from the social partners to convene and preside over deliberations and to implement the TNF’s decisions. The proposed Act would also provide for the coordination of the role of the chairperson and cochairpersons which would enhance the implementation and monitoring of agreements;
- interface between the TNF and other stakeholders – the TNF Act shall provide for the convening of periodic consultative sessions for purposes of wider participation and consultation with various stakeholders that include the academia and development institutions among others; independent secretariat – Mr. speaker Sir, the TNF will be supported by an independent secretariat, the roles and function of which shall be provided for in the Act. The manner of appointment of the secretariat’s executive authority shall also be provided for in the Act. The TNF should be supported by an independent secretariat that is able to backstock the social dialogue process with greater efficiency. This arrangement would enable the TNF to have meetings at regular intervals on dates fixed in advance. This regularity of meeting enhances the continued relevance of the TNF to deal with issues of importance from time to time.
FUNDING MECHANISM FOR THE TNF
Finally Mr. Speaker Sir, the TNF shall be funded within the National Budget. The mandate of TNF to discuss issues of national importance requires that Government sufficiently caters for the operations of the TNF. The TNF can also receive supplementary funding from development partners and others. I hope that that adequately responds to the Hon. Member’s question. I thank you.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me thank the Hon. Deputy Minister for bringing the Ministerial Statement in terms of what I sought to find out from the Ministry on what the delay was in terms of bringing the Tripartite Negotiating Forum Bill to Parliament. Let me hasten to say, I was like - should I call for a point of order? I later thought of respecting the Minister. Why am I saying that, exactly where he has gone in terms of laying out the Bill, the introduction and so on, is exactly where I left the Bill in 2013 when I left the Ministry.
The reason for me having asked that question last week was because I know the preparatory work that I had done in the Ministry. What he has alluded to, if he were to bring the Bill even tomorrow, people would be worried for he has already brought the Bill into
Parliament. Really my question was, what is the hold up because the apparatus, set up and everything were already there when I left the Ministry.
He mentioned about the popularisation and publicity of the Kadoma Declaration and five provinces have been reached out, where are the remaining? What is the hold up in terms of popularisation because when we had actually established in 2010 and launched the Kadoma Declaration publicly, with the support of development partners? Indeed he had alluded to say it will be supported by development partners. That is the nature of the TNF, Government has no capacity whatsoever to fund the TNF or to do any activity without the support of the development partners.
May I find it from the Minister, where are we getting it wrong in terms of covering the whole batch of provinces so that we at least will be talking of the Minister bringing the Bill to Parliament. We can deliberate, and then we pass the Bill and get the apparatus going. It is worrying Hon. Speaker, that four years have gone past and the
Bill is still on the shelf gathering dust and the Minister is coming with a Ministerial Statement without even mentioning that maybe when we come back after the break, they will be able to bring the Bill to Parliament. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. T. KHUMALO: My question to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services is were you already presenting the Bill that has not come to Parliament or you were just informing us that it is there.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): Hon. Member, it was a Ministerial Statement which was clear and you are posing a question whether that was a Bill presentation.
HON. CHAMISA: My question of clarification from Hon. Deputy Minister is to do with the issue for commitment. He said there is a realisation in terms of the Kadoma Declaration, that there are issues that are outstanding, issues to do with corruption and inconsistencies of policy. Is there any timeframe as to the programme of action within Government to deal with those outstanding issues because they are very important, not just in terms of the TNF framework, but in terms of ease of doing business.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
On Hon. Khumalo’s intervention, what I am submitting in this House are the principles which will be governing the crafting of the Bill.
When you take them to Cabinet, you take them through as principles. So, I gave you an outline of the salient features of the Bill as it will be coming through. Mr. Speaker Sir, if Hon. Members would go through my submission they will see that the principles I presented today are indeed different from the principles that, with due respect, Hon. Mpariwa submitted to Cabinet in 2013.
On the issue that Hon. Mpariwa brought up, the main issues which came through was for us to table a timeframe on when the Bill will be submitted into Parliament. It is our wish and fervent hope that by the third quarter, that Bill should be through Parliament for discussion. On the issue that Hon. Chamisa raises on corruption and related issues, Hon. Chamisa will appreciate that those issues
interface other Ministries as we run through the ease of doing business. There is the need for a combined answer from an InterMinisterial taskforce to completely address the timeframes and when that can be achieved. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 2 to 16 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 17 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE,
HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON SERVICE
DELIVERY BY THE REGISTRAR GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT HON. A. MNANGAGWA: I move the motion standing in my
name that the House takes note of the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services Delivery by the Registrar-General’s Department.
Hon. Mukwangwariwa having seconded the motion instead of
Hon. Chimanikire
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: On a point of order. The Hon. Member seconded but according to the Order Paper I am supposed to second and I am present. I do not have a spokesperson in Parliament.
I second.
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.
1.0 Introduction
1.1 The Registrar General’s Department is the sole authority that provides vital civil registration and travel documents to ensure that all citizens are properly registered. In pursuit of its mandate, the Department is guided by the following Acts of Parliament:
- The Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act 2013
- Citizenship of Zimbabwe Act [Chapter 4:01]
- Births and Death Registration Act [Chapter 5:02]
- Burial and Cremation Act [Chapter 5:03]
- African Marriages Act [Chapter 5:07]
- Marriages Act [Chapter 5:11]
- National Registration Act [Chapter 10:17]
Brands Act [Chapter 19:03]
- In conducting its enquiry, the Committee visited Mashonaland
West, Midlands, Bulawayo and Matabeleland North Provinces. Your
Committee would like to thank the Ministry officials at the various
Provinces for their cooperation.
- The objectives of the enquiry were to receive firsthand information from the clients of the Registrar General’s Department and to ascertain customer satisfaction on the services rendered. Furthermore, the objectives of the enquiry were to get an appreciation of the challenges encountered during the service delivery by the Department and to make recommendations which the Committee deemed fit.2.0
Methodology
2.1 As part of its oversight function your Committee applied the following methodology to get an appreciation and assessment of service delivery within the Registrar General’s Department:-
- Approached the Provincial offices for a briefing, outlining the objectives of the Committee.
- Visited identified centres of the Registrar General’s Department
- The Committee also gathered information through the following means;
- Observation method – at the service centres; ii.Interaction with clients on how they were served; iii. Interviews with officials on the quality of service given and feedback by customers on their satisfaction of such services; iv.Conducted surveys on accessibility by clients of primary documents;
- Checking on the appropriateness of infrastructure at places visited; and
- At the end of each day the Committee would hold meetings to deliberate on observations.
- Core Functions of the Registrar General’s Department
- In the administration of the Acts under its purview, the
Department provides the following:-
- services relating to registration of births, deaths, national identity documents, passports, citizenship, brands and marriages;
- the production and issuance of travel documents.
As part of its service provision, the Department sets out standards that it adheres to. These standards relate to the time taken to process the documents which varies from 1 to 20 working days depending on the circumstances except for travel documents which may take up to 4 weeks to process.
- Other standards set by the Department relate to issuing of birth certificates and burial orders within one working day. An application for a death certificate takes three working days while the issuance of a duplicate takes five working days. The issuance of duplicate death certificates through mail received from Provinces and Districts takes up to twenty working days.
- The Department also issues brand certificates, marriages certificates, citizenship certificates, national identity documents, travel documents and provides mobile registration. Application and processing of certificates over the counter at the Central Registry takes up to fourteen working days. Application and processing of livestock brand certificates through mail at Provinces takes twenty working days.
Proceedings of the Committee
4.0 Mashonaland West Province
4.1 Your Committee visited the Provincial Registrar General’s office in Mashonaland West where it received evidence on the activities of the Department. In his briefing, the Provincial Registrar, Mr. Wilbert
Chirenda informed the Committee that the Province had seven administrative districts comprising Chinhoyi, Hurungwe, Kariba, Zvimba, Chegutu, Mhondoro-Ngezi and Sanyati. Apart from the main district offices the Province has 18 sub-offices, some of which are located at the hospitals. For example, Chinhoyi Provincial Hospital accommodates the Registrar General’s office for purposes of issuing burial orders. Karoi and Kariba districts have sub-offices. Zvimba does not have a hospital sub-office but utilises the ones at Banket and Mutorashanga Mine. Chegutu has two sub-offices in Norton and
Mhondoro-Mubaira. There is no sub-office in the town of Chegutu. Mhondoro-Ngezi is still a new sub-office in the Province. Sanyati district office which was formerly Kadoma has two sub-offices, one at Chakari Mine and the other one at Sanyati Arda office.
4.2 The Province has not conducted any outreach programmes since 2013 despite the fact that the majority of the poor people are in the communal areas and require services. Mr Chirenda said, “We used to go out each year for about 3 months taking our services to these people.
Our nearest offices are sub-offices which are about 60km away from the people.”
All the seven main offices are computerised and all data is transmitted to the production centre via satellite. The Department attributed its computerisation success to the retention fund. However, the main challenge was the inadequacy of office space and accommodation due to lack of funding. For example, eleven officers were operating from a small office, obviously creating long queues.
4.3 The Department had inadequate fuel to cater for visits to sub- offices. Some sub-offices, like Sanyati, were said to be 120km from the District Offices making it difficult to visit and monitor service delivery by staff in outlying areas on a regular basis. There was also need for adequate human and material resources as a way of improving service delivery in places like Hurungwe where a lot of people had no access to primary documents.
4.4 In the course of its enquiry on service delivery, Hon. Members of the Committee had the opportunity to interview some of the clients at the Provincial Registry in Chinhoyi. Your Committee was informed of some of the challenges encountered. For example, one old woman aged 64 from Chakari who wanted to apply for a passport was advised that her metallic identity card had numbers that were not visible hence she had to apply for a polythene identity card from her district of origin in Sanyati. Such a situation created inconveniences and unnecessary costs to the client. Further to that, some clients were made to stay in the queues for long hours without receiving any service. A case in point was that of a young man who was number twenty one in the queue for birth certificates but was still not served three hours after his arrival at the offices.
In response to the Committee’s observation, the Provincial Registrar attributed the delay to lack of computers at the sub-offices and electricity outages. Mr Kazingizi, the District Registrar for Sanyati in support of the sentiments by the Provincial Registrar stated that some clients were shunning green copies of identity cards issued at the district offices, in favour of the plastic cards which were only issued at the provincial offices.
4.5 Your Committee was further informed that among challenges encountered were situations where clients failed to bring their biological parents when they wanted to register for their primary documents. In such cases, clients were asked to go back to their original homes and bring their village heads as was the case of an 18 year old from Manicaland who was requested to do so by the officials.
4.6 In terms of service delivery, your Committee observed that at the passport offices, long queues were a thing of the past. The officials were managing to serve their clients as and when they came. Sub-offices were very helpful in the provision of service to the public. In MhondoroMubaira, people were said to be getting computerised birth certificates as the Department had moved away from the manual system. In terms of costs, there had been saving measures as evidenced by situations where clients were now paying once for a computerised birth certificate.
4.7 Computerisation had assisted a lot compared to the past. Suffice to say whenever an individual lost his/ her passport and did not know the identity card number, they could approach the offices with their correct names in their correct order and information would be retrieved from the computer in no time at all to the client.
4.8 Your Committee also visited the half completed Sanyati District Registry whose construction commenced in 2004. It was quite disturbing to your Committee to note that the uncompleted building was already getting dilapidated before it could be utilised by the Department. The challenges bedeviling the completion of the new offices were cited as inadequate resources. Expectations were that once completed, the new offices would go a long way towards enhancing service delivery to the public.
5.0 Kwekwe Registry Office
5.1 Your Committee received a briefing on the state of service delivery in the Midlands Province from Ms. Agnes Gambura, the
Provincial Registrar. The province has eight districts, namely, Mvuma, Gweru, Shurugwi, Mberengwa, Gokwe North and South, Zvishavane and Kwekwe. Passport applications are centralised at the provincial office. However, all district offices issue births, deaths, identity cards, marriages, citizenship and livestock brand registrations.
5.2 The introduction of sub-offices had managed to alleviate pressure to the members of the public as they could access service delivery in their areas. However, the sub-offices were still not enough. Some clients walk long distances before they could access services. At times, the Department had to resort to mobile registration. However, due to financial constraints, the Department had not been able to carry out its activities of registration. The last massive registration was carried out prior to the general elections in 2013. That was when the Department had to go village by village to meet the people. At the time of your
Committee’s visit, the Provincial Registrar, Agnes Gambura, said that only limited outreach visits were being conducted, to selected areas, owing to financial constraints. At least one visit a month per selected area was considered sufficient. Your Committee further received evidence from the Provincial Registrar that sometimes children were attending school without birth certificates. However, your Committee took cognizance that in most rural schools, authorities did not chase away pupils for not having birth certificates.
5.3 The real challenge for the Department was lack of office space and accommodation. The situation was further exacerbated by the fact that the Department’s records were highly active as they were required from time to time. Further to that, officers had to share desks in their offices as the Department could not afford decent office accommodation. An ideal situation would have been the one where each officer had a self-contained office with all the requisite facilities. More offices were required if ever service delivery was to be enhanced. To this end, each local authority needed to have its own fully fledged offices.
The Kwekwe district alone had three local authorities with suboffices in Zibagwe and Kwekwe rural areas. There were also five other offices which include Loreto Mission Hospital, St Joseph’s Malisa Empress Mine, Zhombe and Silobela which issue all vital primary documents. The one in Zhombe at the DDF offices is also a replica of the main office. The other one at Loreto Hospital does not issue IDs. It only issues burial orders, birth and death certificates. At the Kwekwe office, the Department issues passport forms for onward processing at the provincial office. Your Committee was informed that all clients are served and cleared on time at the Kwekwe District Registry.
5.4 In response to a question on whether educational awareness programmes were being conducted to clients, the Provincial Registrar indicated that their officers team up with the police whenever they conduct exercises on anti-stock theft campaigns to educate the members of the public. Further to that, members of the public gave feedback to the Department on the quality of service that they received.
5.5 She further alluded to the fact that they assisted all clients who came to their offices with complaints. However, there were some clients who sought services of touts. In her briefing, the Provincial Registrar said, “we have also noticed that there are touts who visit our offices every day with a view to cash in on the clients. I have also noticed sometimes members of the general public do not want to be assisted by our officials instead preferring to be assisted by touts.”
On being questioned whether the police had been informed of the presence of the touts at the offices who could possibly have been working in cahoots with members of staff, the Provincial Registrar informed your Committee that investigations had been done and they had managed to identify the culprits.
5.6 Some clients were said to have been coming to the offices to apply for primary documents without satisfying the requisite conditions. Such cases were prevalent among aliens who were claiming that they had no relatives to testify for them. It was therefore imperative on the part of the Department to ensure that clients were properly registered.
6.0 Zhombe Sub-office
6.1 Your Committee paid an unannounced visit to Zhombe Suboffice where the officials disclosed that the main challenge facing the office was that most clients expected to get computerised birth certificates. However, the office was still issuing manual birth certificates as they did not have computers. Mr Jongwe informed your
Committee that, “…..you find that we give someone a manual birth certificate today and then tomorrow they are at the district office to apply for a computerised birth certificate. That is the same with national identity cards. We are still issuing that green waiting pass. You give someone a green waiting pass today, tomorrow they are at the district office, they want plastic identity cards”.
The situation was further compounded by lack of office space. The Sub-offices were being rented from District Development Fund (DDF) and had no electricity. On being asked whether they had the service charter anywhere in their Sub-office, the officials indicated that they had none. Consequently, the assumption was that clients were not aware of the existence of a service charter within the Department of the Registrar General.
6.2 Your Committee further observed that there were no queues at the Zhombe Sub-Office, a situation attributed to the fact that the Suboffice in the district had been the first one to have been opened. Consequently, the Department had more time to serve clients. The other reason given by officials was that clients in this area could easily access
Kwekwe where they could get computerised birth certificate and plastic IDs. Some of them did not even bother visiting Zhombe Sub-Offices.
6.3 Your Committee also observed that there were no challenges of touts in the rural areas. However, the challenge faced was that of lack of discretion on the part of the officials in dealing with cases of birth registration. A case in point was that of a student who had to meet the
‘O’ level registration deadline the following day but did not have a birth certificate. In terms of cause 11 of the Birth and Death Registration Act, the responsibility for giving notice of the birth or still birth of a child provides as follows:
- c) The headman appointed in terms of Section 8 of the Chiefs and Headmen Act [Chapter 29:01] for the community in which the birth or still birth occurred, where he had knowledge of such birth or still birth.
Efforts to reason out with the officials were futile despite the fact that there was a letter from the traditional leadership and the headmaster supporting some of the requirements required. The situation was so critical as failure to get a birth certificate meant that the student could not write her “O” level examinations.
Your Committee is cognizant of the fact that supporting letters from the traditional leadership have some credence and feels that the student should have been registered on the strength of the supporting letters. However, the officials would have none of it as they preferred referring all matters to the District Office. Such a situation compromises service delivery and needs to be attended to by the Registrar General’s Department through the exercise of due diligence.
7.0 Bulawayo Provincial Registry Office
7.1 Your Committee held interviews at the Bulawayo Provincial
Headquarters which covers the urban area of Bulawayo. The Provincial
Office also serves as a District Office. There are five sub-offices in the
Province of Bulawayo namely Nketa, Emakhandeni, Pumula, Mpilo and United Bulawayo Hospitals (UBH). Shortage of office space was said to be the major challenge at the Bulawayo Provincial Offices. At the time of your Committee’s visit, the staff establishment was 29 including that of Matabeleland North Province which operated from the same premises.
The provision of services was said to be good by the Provincial Registrar General, Mrs. Jane Peters. Your Committee observed that there were no long queues. However, the clients interviewed by your Committee complained of the attitude displayed by some officials whom they said were usually rude to them.
7.2 The Provincial Office had decisively dealt with the challenge of touts with the assistance of the police. Further to that, an efficient passport collection system had been devised by Bulawayo Province in partnership with its sister Province of Matabeleland South.
Accommodation at sub-offices was a major concern as the Department had to rely on the one provided by Department of Public Works and National Housing for its computerised department.
7.3 On service provision, Mrs. Peters informed your Committee that the Department conducted educational programmes occasionally where they sensitised members of the public on birth and death registration requirements.
Mrs. Peters bemoaned the absence of a mobile registration exercise owing to limited financial resources due to economic hardships. She alluded to the fact that some people were financially incapacitated to come to the Provincial Offices. A case in point was that of residents at Elsberry Farm which was said to be 15km away. She said that it would have been good if they could conduct mobile registration annually at such places as a way of enhancing service delivery.
8.0 Matabeleland North Provincial Office
8.1 Matabeleland North Province has seven districts, namely Hwange, Binga, Bubi, Lupane, Tsholotsho, Nkayi and Umguza. Hwange district is the only one with an urban set up as it accommodates Hwange town and Victoria Falls. The other six rural districts have 22 sub-offices divided as follows: Hwange 4, Binga 5, Bubi 2, Lupane 3, Tsholotsho 3, Nkayi 3, and Umguza 2. Due to the arid nature of the region, sources of income for registration of documents are hard to come by.
8.2 The province has a staff establishment of 215 posts. Out of these 162 posts are occupied. 53 posts are vacant. The majority of these vacant posts are at sub-office level and therefore operations at that level are compromised by inadequate manpower. In terms of achievements of the Province, your Committee was informed that the opening up of suboffices had reduced the travelling distance by clients to access services despite their geographical location. However, the distances between suboffices was still a cause for concern. Sometimes there is a distance of up to 80km between sub-offices. All the district offices are computerised in terms of their operations except Bubi District Registry which is currently not on the Zimbabwe Population Registration System (ZPRS). In his overview, the Acting Provincial Registrar, Mr Willard Saenda revealed that major challenges were acute shortage of office and residential accommodation and long distances travelled to access service delivery in most of the district.
8.3 Your Committee was further informed that Lupane District
Office which was completed in 2013 was only occupied on 14 March 2016. The delay in moving to the new building was attributed to the contractor who had left outstanding bills. As a result, service providers such as ZINWA and ZESA could not connect water and electricity supplies until the beginning of March. At the time of your Committee’s visit, the Information Technology (IT) section was working on the installation of a computer for the District Registrar. The provincial staff of 32 was still operating from Bulawayo because there was no residential accommodation in Lupane. The Department had even approached the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, but to no avail on the issue of accommodation.
8.4 Your Committee was further informed that Matabeleland North Province was not issuing passports. As a result, revenue inflows were not that much compared to other Provinces.
The Province also had a unique challenge in that its clientele worked in neighbouring countries resulting in them seeking services at certain times of the year when they came back into the country.
8.5 The Acting Provincial Registrar informed your Committee that there were also uncompleted Public Sector Investment Projects (PSIPs) such as buildings at the District Offices. For example, Nkayi District Registry Office, which was 80% complete, was being vandalised and this was a serious cause for concern. Service delivery could be enhanced if traditional mobile registration exercises were conducted and this would go a long way towards providing services to clients.
8.6 Your Committee further received evidence to the fact that a lot of children who had attained the age of 16 in the Province and required primary documents, did not have resources to go to the nearest registration points. Although the national identity cards were issued for free, it was not everybody who came forward to get them due to lack of awareness.
8.7 The Province is also affected by a bad road network which reduces the life span of vehicles. It was commendable to hear that the traditional leadership also played a role in the issuing of primary documents in Matabeleland North as they are part of the system as provided in the statutes, for example, in the surrounding areas of Lupane.
9.0 Lupane District Registry Office
9.1 Your Committee visited Lupane District Registry Offices in Matabeleland North which is divided into two constituencies. There are two sub-offices in each constituency. Most of the clients are from the rural areas. The opening of the Lupane Registry office had brought relief to the clients who had previously travelled long distances to access service delivery. At the time of your Committee’s visit, the offices had only been operating for a month.
9.2 The major challenges experienced were the frequent breakdown of their vehicle and shortage of staff and residential accommodation. The furthest distance travelled by clients to access service was 104km away, that is, Dandanda area.
10.0 Binga District Registry Office
10.1 Your Committee also visited Binga District Registry Office.
The district is one of the most densely populated in Matabeleland North
Province with a population of 140 000 people according to the 2012 Census. Binga has one main office and five sub-offices. These are situated at the district hospital, Siabuwa is about 120km from the Binga centre, Kariangwe about 100km to the south east, Tinde is 100km away, and Lusulu is about 150km away. All the sub-offices are to the eastern side of the main office because of the border with Zambia to the north and Lake Kariba to the west.
10.2 The staff compliment is 22 out of an establishment of 30. The people in this district depend on fishing because the terrain is not conducive to farming as most of the land is covered by mountains and water on the western side. They face challenges when it comes to accessing registration centres because of the bad road network. There is only one surfaced road in the district. The rest is gravel road meandering in rocky terrain. In other areas like Chunga, the roads are impassable because of rocks. The area needs good servicing of roads so that clients can access service delivery.
10.3 The district provides births registration, death registration and national IDs. The four sub-offices issue green waiting passes. The plastic IDs are issued at the main office. The hospital sub-office only covers the registration of births and deaths. The District also issues passport forms at the main office, livestock brand application forms, and accepts marriage certificates that would have been processed by marriage officers. These are the major services offered to the public.
10.4 Generally, the offices are in a poor state and not conducive for service delivery. All sub-offices are rented from different Ministries. Staff accommodation is inadequate. The new offices in Binga were yet to be completed. However, your Committee noted with concern that more than three hundred bags of cement had been left to dry up within the premises of the District Registry despite the fact that a half completed structure needed so much of that cement for its completion.
The completion of the structure would have provided the much needed office accommodation. There is definitely need for more offices to be built so that clients can travel short distances to access services. The introduction of mobile registration would go a long way towards enhancing services offered by the Department. There is also need for a four wheel drive vehicle for use on the rugged terrain so that officers can access all the sub-stations in reasonable time with ease.
10.5 Overally, your Committee was satisfied with the quality of service delivery by the Registrar General’s Department in the Binga District. Constant supervision was however curtailed by the type of vehicle used but every fortnight, sub-offices were visited to monitor service delivery. In view of the diverse languages spoken in the district, all 21 members of staff were conversant in Tonga, the dominant language and other languages. The Department also ensured that, where the staff was doubtful of the correct spelling of names, they would request clients to write down their names as a way of averting errors in the names on their birth certificates. Although the shortage of manpower was a cause for concern, whenever the need arose maybe due to illnesses or other factors, members of staff from other offices in the sub-offices would be moved to fill up the gap that would have arisen in particular sub-stations. Sensitisation on documents required for registration was always done to the community whenever the Zimbabwe Republic Police conducted its own campaigns.
11.0 Observations
11.1 Your Committee noted the following observations:-
- In the execution of its mandate, the Registrar General’s offices are open from 0745 hours to 1645 hours, five days a week from Monday to Friday. However, the offices are not accessible to the public for the processing of documents internally after 3 p.m. at the Central Registry and Provincial Offices. In districts and sub-offices countrywide, offices are closed to the public at 4 p.m. However, Provincial, District and sub-offices are open during weekends and public holidays for purposes of issuing burial orders and this is commendable as the public is not denied of this essential service.
- The core values of the Organisation were not being shared among the staff resulting in negative attitude and poor service delivery to the clients. This impacted negatively on service delivery.
- Some of the officers had an attitude problem at leadership level, that is, the Provincial Registrar in Kwekwe. In Chinhoyi they displayed lack of preparedness in dealing with matters relating to the Committee’s visit. Certain requirements were not explained to the clients and conditions set were perceived stringent much to the detriment of service delivery particularly in Mashonaland West and Midlands Provinces.
- It appeared Mashonaland West Province was receiving more resources than other Provinces as evidenced by the number of cars bought using the retention fund and other fringe benefits.
- Provinces such as Bulawayo and Matabeleland North were in a state of preparedness for the Committee’s visit and showed signs
of good service delivery to their clients, a situation which should be emulated by other Provinces as a yardstick.
- The visit by the Committee was the first ever on service delivery to the Department, hence the observation that customer care in some Provinces is none existent and the service charter is not owned by the Department in some of the places visited, that is Zhombe. Officials could not articulate what was on the service charter.
- There is inadequate office accommodation in Kadoma and yet there is an uncompleted and abandoned structure which could, when completed and utilised, enhance the quality of service delivery by the Department.
- Although there are procedures, there was also lack of uniformity on procedures on issuance of primary documents particularly for those born in urban centres, rural areas and on farms.
- The Provincial Registrar informed your Committee that there were four cases of corruption that had been detected in the Midlands Province. Some offenders had been charged and others were still waiting for finalisation of their cases.
- Mobile registration has not been conducted since 2013.
12.0 Recommendations
In view of the observations and other incidental matters made by your
Committee, the following are recommended:-
- More than thirty percent of the resources drawn from the Retention Fund should be channeled towards service delivery, for example the mobile registration exercise, by not later than 31st December, 2016.
- There is need to complete all uncompleted structures in Districts such as Nkayi, Binga and Sanyati within the stipulated budget year, that is, 31st December, 2016 iii. There is need to recognise and respect the authority of Traditional leadership as required in the issuance of primary documents all the times.
- There is need for the Ministry to sensitise and educate the public on the need to acquire primary documents by not later than the end of December, 2016.
- More provision of material and human resources in all Provinces is vital as a way of enhancing service delivery at all times. There is need for refresher courses and training in customer care for officers so that quality service may be provided by the
Department in its Provinces by 31st December, 2016.
- There is need to embark on mobile registration programmes so as to reduce the distance travelled by clients as a way of improving service delivery by not later than 31st December, 2016.
- Adequate sub-offices should be opened in the Provinces so that clients can benefit from services that are given by the Department by not later than 31st December, 2016.
- There is need to speed up the computerisation exercise before 31st
December, 2016, as has been the case at Provincial Offices.
13.0 Conclusion
Your Committee noted that if the Department had been adequately resourced in the area of office accommodation, such a situation would have assisted in reducing the time spend serving clients. In view of the fact that the visit on service delivery monitoring was the first of its kind, it enabled your Committee to get an appreciation of the challenges and first-hand information on how clients are served by the Department using the Retention Fund. It is therefore your Committee’s fervent hope that the Ministry would consider this report and take remedial measures where necessary as a way of enhancing its service delivery to the people.
I thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise to
second the Report on the visit by your Committee to the Registrar
General’s offices in selected parts of the country. Mr. Speaker, the importance of the Registrar General’s office cannot be overemphasised. They provide birth certificates, Identity Documents, as well as, death certificates when we die. So, from birth to death, they keep the records of all Zimbabweans and all citizens for that matter.
As indicated in this report Mr. Speaker, the visit was one of its kind, where for the first time, your Committee was monitoring service delivery. The manner in which we conducted these visits is, they were unannounced in most parts of the areas which we visited. We could get there and inter-mingle with the clients who had come to receive service from the various offices. We were able to interview those clients and during meetings where we got briefings from the officers in the various areas, we were able to interrogate these officers based on facts gathered on the ground through the interviews that we were having with the public.
However Mr. Speaker, of major concern was outstanding projects of office accommodation. For example, in Kadoma, trees had actually germinated and had turned what was supposed to be verandas into a forest. You could get a tree that could be as high as ten metres but growing where there was supposed to be a veranda of an office. Nothing is being done by officers that are in those areas and the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing has actually abandoned the construction. Further to that Mr. Speaker, we had ceilings falling off some of these buildings from the inside. We also have tiles that are also falling off from roofs. It is as if there is no one who is responsible, firstly for the construction and secondly for the abandonment of those projects. Sadly, despite our recommendations in our last budget that was presented in this House, the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing has not been provided with funds to complete such buildings.
The worst scenario was in Binga Mr. Speaker. When we got to Binga, we saw over 200 bags of cement that have been abandoned in the open and had been washed away by the rain and no one was taking responsibility. The contractor has abandoned the project and at the end of the day, the Government lost a substantial amount of money for no good reason. There is no construction of the new building that has taken place. This case needs investigation; whether it is criminal or absolute negligence on the part of the contractor.
Finally Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that certain rules that apply in the Registrar General’s office need to be amended. For example, one may be looking for a birth certificate and they are told to go and get three witnesses. These witnesses could be far apart from the one who wants to collect their birth certificate. If you live in Harare, you are supposed to go and collect three witnesses from Binga. It is almost near impossible. Our recommendation is that any recommendations that come from the local chiefs should be respected. There is a tendency to say even if a local chief has recommended that this child was born in this village, they will always refuse to take the written documentation in order to support the birth of a child. Some of the rules Mr. Speaker need amendment. However, I would like to thank my colleagues who are in the Committee. We had a very successful tour and I am sure that our recommendations will be implemented as we will be making a follow up in the near future. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the mover of the motion. I want to thank the Committee on Defence and Home Affairs for this noble motion. Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief and straight to the point. There are a few issues that come to mind that identity documents are an important tag reflective of an individual’s identity, history, heritage and nationality. Without these Mr. Speaker, people are just moving like zombies; they have no identity, history and heritage.
Mr. Speaker, I had a rally on 11th February in Chegutu where there were over 15 000 people – [Laughter.] - I had another one on 18th February, where there were more than 10 000 people. Of all these people Mr. Speaker Sir, 9% of them are without registration and a third of those people are children. A third of any population are children under the age of five who do not have birth certificates. Mr. Speaker Sir, what I said to them is that, as I debate in Parliament, I would want for you, one day, to be aligned to the Constitution because a nation is measured by the way it upholds its Constitution. The Constitution enjoins us and implores us to take care of registration of our children, of our keith and kin of our population.
Mr. Speaker Sir, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of a Child (UNHCR), of which Zimbabwe is also a signatory, every child has a right to a nationality. On Section 19 (1) that I would want to deal with verbatim goes as follows: It says, “the State must adopt policies and measures to ensure that in matters relating to children, the best interests of children concerned are paramount”. In 19 (2) it says, “the State must adopt reasonable policies and measures within the limits and resources available to it to ensure that children enjoy family parental care, appropriation care and when removed from a family environment”.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when we speak of a child, we also speak of their identity and their birth certificate. Under the Birth and Death Registration Act [5: 02], it is mandatory to register the birth of a child within six weeks of their birth and this responsibility is placed on parents. Mr. Speaker Sir, where I come from in Chegutu West, there are clinics and hospitals that are more than 40 km apart and a lot of these births are being done in the comfort of their homes where there is no nyamukuta or midwives and doctors and nurses. What this means is that there can never be any birth registration because there is no one to take care of the birth registration. There is no birth registration officer whereas the Constitution and the Act mandates us to register a birth within 42 days.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am aware and conscious that over 50 thousand child-headed families in Zimbabwe and over 1.3 million orphans are a good number of whom might not have been registered by their parents resident in Zimbabwe. I therefore implore, we cannot force the Executive to do what we want. We can only nag them into action. I therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, by the powers vested in me as the Member of Parliament for Chegutu West Constituency, make a clarion call that there be a moratorium for those children that have never been registered for birth. There be a six months grace period for them to be registered so that they have identity documents in the future, so that they can have birth certificates and go to school.
Where I come from, there is no child who is disenfranchisised or who is hindered from going to school because there is no birth certificate at primary school level. I have implored on parents to go with them to every primary education institution and enrol them in that primary institution so that they cannot fall behind in their education. I have also implored the headmasters in those regions to take care of those children and to make payment plans with the parents, irrespective that the child have a birth certificate or not. However, this comes to an end at Grade 7 level when they leave for secondary schools that are outside my constituency. Those headmasters therefore require that the child has a birth certificate Mr. Speaker.
It is in this regard that I now ask the Executive to make sure that these children are registered and are given birth certificates without any further delay; aware that Mr. Speaker Sir, that we are already two months into the opening of schools and those children that have left Grade 7 are now going to Form 1 where they are being prohibited from entering into class because they do not have birth certificates. This is now out of my constituency and I cannot speak for other constituencies whereas in my constituency, no child gets to be hindered going to school because there is no birth certificate.
Mr. Speaker Sir, because of this urgent matter, I request a policy position Mr. Speaker Sir, requiring that there be mobile registration entities that are going to register these children, whether or not their parents have been found. Some of them have no parents and some of them have parents that have no identity documents themselves. Some of them have parents that have identity documents that are written and inscribed alienship whereas they cannot register their children because of the alienship tag.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I bring this issue because it is in the public domain and what arena and what podium I have as a Member of Parliament is this arena. I now make a clarion call that where there are children that have not been registered at birth, in Ward 25 of Chegutu West Constituency, in Ward 24, in Ward 10 where Councillor Chikazhi comes from, that all these children be registered without any further delay. That all those adults that do not have birth registration certificates, that do not have identity cards be given a moratorium of six months and be given an opportunity to be registered without any compensation and any form of payment.
After this period of six months grace period has passed, only then can the Executive only call on them to pay $10 or $20 to renounce their alienship tag. Mr. Speaker Sir, these people used to be registered in Zimbabwe and they used to having a voting right. Now they are IDPs – internally displaced people. One came and said to me, he is 85 years old and does not know Malawi or Zambia but he is being told that in Zimbabwe he cannot vote. In Zimbabwe, he cannot be removed on the tag that he is registered on, that is alienship. I call now that all these people be registered without any impediments being put on a list that is said to be of citizens.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will take you to Section 35 of the Constitution that says, “persons are Zimbabwean citizens by birth, descent or by registration. (2), all Zimbabwean citizens are equal and entitled to the rights, privileges and benefits of citizens and are equal subjects of duties and obligations of citizens”. I say so Mr. Speaker Sir because (3) says, “all Zimbabwean citizens are entitled to the following rights and benefits in addition to any other granted to them by law (a) to the protection by the State whenever, wherever they may be”.
Mr. Speaker Sir, these are citizens and where does it also call on us to embed these people? It says in Section 38 (2) of the Constitution,
“any person who has been continuously and lawfully resident in Zimbabwe for at least 10 years, whether before or after the effective date, and who satisfies the conditions prescribed by an Act of Parliament is entitled on application to be registered as a Zimbabwean citizen”. Mr. Speaker Sir, we have 85, 36 and 45 year olds. These people have been born in Zimbabwe and they are entitled by the power of the supreme law of the land to be registered as citizens of Zimbabwe. It boggles one’s mind that we cannot make a law which we are not upholding.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I implore right now in the same vein of consequential alignment of laws, to also align our Acts and laws in order to make sure that everybody who has unfairly been called an alien, is enjoined as embodied into the Zimbabwean citizenry as a citizen, aware that the Act, Section 38 (2) empowers them to be aware also that Section 38 (3) empowers them to be. I ask also the Executive to take appropriate measures to ensure that every child in Zimbabwe, whether by birth or descent is granted a birth certificate and other identity documents issued by the State.
Secondly, a six month grace period is given for all those who on one reason or the other are not registered to do so in particular, those that come from Chegutu West Constituency. Mobile registration units are established without any impediments and delay in all the country’s districts that we heard the Chairperson of the Committee on Defence and Home Affairs allude to in Mashonaland West, where she speaks of seven administration districts which also touch on Chegutu District. Without delay, mobile registration units should be deployed particularly in rural areas where the majority of the population has gone to and are aware and cognisant of the agrarian reform programme of 2000.
Mr. Speaker Sir, also in the same vein, to raise awareness on the importance of registering children at birth and the adverse effects of not doing so, let the State play its part. The MPs and the Executive should take cognisant of the fact that I stand here today, implore and ask fervently, effectively, and vociferously for them to make sure that they do not cause an internally displaced people that then cause people without a nation that houses Zimbabweans that have been unfairly marginalised. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MANICALAND
PROVINCE (HON. CHIMENE: I would like to thank you for granting me this motion. I was touched by the report that we have received especially on the issue of the children who are no longer proceeding with their education for want of birth certificates. Hon. Speaker Sir, in the report that has been presented in this august House, I would like to touch on what I have knowledge of. If the Hon. Member was not on the phone, I was going to make reference to Binga. He was going to assist me because he was going to second that I was talking about what is
Binga.
I stayed in Binga and I am one of Binga’s residences. The places that have been mentioned in Binga have touched me. I witnessed these incidences. Children did not have access to documents, the same applied also to the elders. For a child to go to school after a birth certificate had been acquired was impossible because the mother and the father did not have birth certificates. The same would apply to the grandfather. I was disturbed by that experience and I felt touched. The Committee did very well in producing this report and highlighting these issues.
The places in Binga are too far away from each other and their roads are not tar macadamised. These are gravel roads and all the people would come to Binga Centre to acquire birth certificates. They would call at the centre without the necessary documents and they are told to bring people who are grandparents or someone who is ten years older. If you want to acquire a birth certificate for a 60 year old, you had to bring in a 70 year old person.
I have reason to commend the Committee for a job well-done. If only the Ministry could understand this. There are children in this age that came to my offices. They passed their Grade 7 examinations, but they do not have birth certificates, the same applied to their mothers. I wrote a letter asking that they assist this person and there were a number of requirements that the Registrar-General’s office gives. A number of people that are required as witnesses and the people cannot afford the busfare. If it were possible, we should take this report seriously and there should practical solutions to this report to show the good work that was done by the Committee.
I call upon the responsible officers and authorities to take the work of Parliament seriously. It should not be just an exercise that ends with the publication of the Hansard day in and day out, because a lot of work is being done by this Parliament, but it is dying out there. The Members are reporting and we urge the other arms of Government to perform their tasks so that we do not just become a talk-shop. The effects of not doing work by other arms of Government will have repercussions to the
Member of Parliament and it will be detrimental to him or her in 2018.
My duty as a Member of Parliament is to raise the issues for my constituents.
The Ministry concerned should decentalise its offices and reach them at the grassroots. Mobile registration should not only come towards election time to facilitate voter registration but it should be a normal exercise to have mobile vehicles coming to give services to the people. In three months, the mobile registration should do it once every term and they should go to places that are accessible to the people. We urge the Ministry mainly as regards children whose parents are deceased and they are without proper documents.
We are ruining the children’s future because they do not have such documentation. We are killing a generation because that lineage will never have documents and it is women who bear the brunt of these problems because children become the father’s children once they have all the adequate documentation. The child has no sufficient documentation as they are the mother’s children because the father is never bothered by such issues. Women are the ones who predominantly frequent the offices and the husbands just produces registration and say, go and acquire a birth certificate when the father himself does not have a birth certificate. We may end up with a country full of people without documentation.
I agree with the previous speaker on the issue of aliens – when did they become alien when they were born in Zimbabwe? That matter should be corrected because, if the great grandfather is the alien it is only him who is an alien and the child was born in Zimbabwe and is a
Zimbabwean by birth. Such people should be given the same rights as Zimbabwean citizens. I rose because I was touched by the report because I once lived in Binga. I had to support the people of Binga and the Committee utterances in Chitonga, unfortunately I cannot interpret Nambya.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. This is a very important report. It is important because it speaks to the basic necessities of our people. I recently had an opportunity to visit people in the rural areas in – Midlands, Matabeland, Masvingo, Manicaland and there is one common message there. People are asking for proper registration documents and identity or identification documents. It is a national chorus and our nation cannot be found wanting in terms of what this Constitution demands or requires.
In terms of Section 35, there are duties and rights but there are also benefits that are supposed to be enjoyed by citizens. These rights that are supposed to be benefitted by citizens are encapsulated in the Constitution. Some of them which are very important are in Section 35 as has already been articulated but key of them is to make sure that citizens have all the documents as provided for by the State. There is not issue of cost or payment but it is just an obligation which the State is supposed to discharge to its citizens. We are supposed to have birth certificates, identity documents issues by the State. Now, you will find that citizens in this country have not been accorded certain fundumental rights and it is an omission on the part of us as Government and as a State to say that in terms of what is supposed to be given to people:
- Citizenship is a right,
- Registration of that citizenship is a right,
- There are privileges that are supposed to be enjoyed by virtue of being a citizen, because there is only one country where we are called a citizen.
When you go to South Africa, certain things are automatically withdrawn or subtracted. Once you are in South Africa, you cannot demonstrate to say I want something because you are not a citizen. Once you are in South Africa, you cannot ask for a passport as a matter of right because you are not a citizen. Once you go to South Africa, you cannot ask to vote as a Zimbabwean in South Africa because you are not a citizen. Once you go to South Africa, you cannot ask to say, I need to be given certain protection by the State because you are not a citizen. So, because people are citizens, they have to be entitled to certain citizenship rights, including the right to vote and to participate in political processes, social processes and economic processes.
Hon. Speaker, I have just taken this stand to make five key recommendations as a way forward and as a way of enriching the report that has already been tabled before Parliament; which is a very rich report and I think that we must thank the Committee for an extensive amount of work that was put into this. I realise that if our Parliament is going to continue to do work in this regard, this is not about parties but this is about our nation and what is good for our citizens. We have a duty as oversight leaders to come and present reports and work that captures the aspirations of our people.
These are my five suggestions - First of all, we need root and branch reform at the Registry office. We need fundamental reform at the Registry office. It is not just reform at systems level for operations, but, it is also reform even at the very top. Mr. Mudede has been there, he has done a good job but we must also begin to think about reform, post - Mr. Mudede, so that… – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is an advocate.] –
He is an advocate, but he should be an advocate at home – [HON. MEMBERS: Laughter.] – So that we allow reform in a fundamental way and manner at that Registry Office. There is serious reform – reform
that would entail making sure that we change systems, we de-centralise our registration. People should not just come to Harare for simple things like birth certificates. Let us have people in Thsolothso getting their birth certificates in Thsolotsho. Let us de-centralise birth certificates in Binga. We cannot Hararerise everything. Let us de-Hararerise everything so that it is there in Matabeleland or Manicaland – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
It is cheaper that way, let us have our birth certificates in Buhera, everything cannot be in Harare. Let us go to Mpopoma, Thsolothso, so that people are able to – [AN HON. MEMBER: Let us go to Zvimba.] –
In Zvimba, they have had enough. – [HON. MEMBERS: Laughter.] – Let us go to all the provinces and make sure that documents are ubiquitous, and registration is ubiquitous. The surest way of doing that is what has already been suggested by Hon. Nduna and Hon. Chimene.
Let us make sure that we computerise our systems – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Let us digitalise our systems. Let us go on the e-Government platform. Once we go on the e-Government platform, we are simply going to have automatic registration upon birth. Once you have given birth today or birth is given to a child, let us register them there and there automatically, so that they are part of what is online. Let us have online, immediate and automatic registration. We should know at the end of the day how many children have been born in Zimbabwe today on a daily basis and they must be registered at a touch of a button.
Once you are registered by birth, you are also supposed to be given a social security number, a passport number and you are also supposed to be given a driver’s licence number which is activated upon your ability to then drive but you are already given your number. All the key numbers are supposed to be given at birth. When you die, it then has to be automatic that you have died. You do not have people who are on the voters’ roll or who are on some roll who are dead. It has to be computerised. In fact, once that has happened-it has to be automatically registered.
We need to move into what is called Evidence Based Government or Data Based Government. A Data Based Government, you do not need a census. A census is a sign of being so backward. You do not need to do a national census because you have your records all the time at the central statistical office. That is what we need. We can easily do this; I had offered my services for free of charge when I was Minister of ICT. Unfortunately, the Inclusive Government was too short a period. If we could extent that to make sure that I do my work and ensure that we go on a Data Based Government. – [Laughter.] –
Mr. Speaker Sir, there can never any national progress without your knowledge of the people you have. You should know how many are finishing Grade Seven, Form Four or Form Six; how many are retiring or refusing to retire, you should know that. That should be part of the national data base, so that you know who are stubborn and who are not - in terms of the national roll.
What is critical is for us to have national progress, let us move to put what is called a national citizens’ register. A national citizens’ register is going to have citizens by profile, citizens in terms of gender, skills and citizens also in terms of location and areas of origin. That is very important because it then helps National and Central Government in terms of planning for national progress and national development. We do not end there, we should move on to the next issue of residence rolls. We should know the residents in Bulawayo, Harare, Victoria Falls, Kwekwe; we should also know the residents in Amaveni, maiguru. That is what we should have to make sure that there is a proper national citizens’ roll. Right now we do not know who is a citizen and who is not in terms of the central roll. If it is computerised, you do not need to do much. This is a very simple thing, you will simply have to get your server, there is no iCloud and simply move on that platform.
We also need to launch a free registration of citizens nationwide, for a period of time. Maybe six months - we have to fund that. As a nation we must be able to fund that to enable our people to be on the national roll not just the voters’ roll. Let us allow people who do not have identity documents to come forward and have those documents because it is their right. It is a God-given right; it is Constitution given right and it is a national given right. So, let us make sure that we move with speed and this is what we must suggest to the Ministry that is in charge, to go on this. This is a progressive thing. Let us register our people.
I also feel that as we register our people, we must also be able to say no single citizen is supposed to queue for a passport. We must be online, there should be no queues at the National Registry Office. We do not need queues, they undermine the dignity of citizens. Let citizens have access to their documents online, it is delivered to you. Even in the rural areas, once you are able to de-centralise your information kiosks, they will not queue but to go to those centres in Mahuwe or Tsholotsho so that they are able to access their documents. It is possible, we can do it. It has been done in Rwanda. We can even do far much better, we are more educated than people in Rwanda. We are more educated than most of the people in Africa, so we will be able to do that.
Last but not least, is the issue of voter registration. If you look at the Constitution, Section 69, it is a right for a person to be on the voters’ roll. It is only that the Government has not been taken to court. If a person were to take Government to court – you are not supposed to register to be a voter. You are supposed to at the age of 18, once you attain the age of 18, it automatically transfers you to be a voter. All you need to do is just to go and confirm where you want to vote but it is an automatic voter registration process – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
–
We are archaic, we waste a lot of time, energy and resources on things that are not supposed to be wasting our time. This is supposed to be done in terms of the Constitution, Section 69 (3), it is supposed to be done as of right. The Constitution demands that you be registered, you just need to take the Government to court for not exercising their right. You do not need to do anything as a citizen. What is supposed to be done is the citizen being given the privilege of citizenship.
Hon. Speaker, having said that, I think this is a very good report.
We need to give it all the support. Let us raise the level of our citizens. Let us show that we are educated people. God has given us a very important gift – the gift of education. This is because we were putting Jesus Christ first, now with what Minister Dokora is trying to do, we are going to reverse all those gains because we are taking away Jesus Christ out of education – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
The reason why we are able to say we are the best educated people is because we had education on Christian values and God blessed us for that. Now, this thing of removing our Jesus Christ, we are also going to empty our education of the glitter and glamour. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
+HON. JOSEPH TSHUMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for
giving me this opportunity. I will speak in the vernacular so that people of my Constituency will understand what we are talking about here. We are here to represent them. Firstly Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the Committee that brought this issue here. This is a very important issue. Like all those who have already spoken before me, it is very important. It is right that everyone should have all the documents that have been mentioned.
What surprises me is that our Ministry is still dwelling on the rules that were put in place by the whites long ago, by our colonizers – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – because they are saying if you want a birth certificate, you need to bring three people and you also need to bring a lot of other things, which is what was being done by whites in order to oppress the blacks. Why should we continue doing that as blacks? We are failing if we continue doing that.
The reason why I am saying that Mr. Speaker is that, if you look at the people in urban areas, just like in the rural areas, they say that the chief can write a note which can be used as evidence that this person was born in that area. Even in urban areas, the same thing can be done. Those people who were brought here in Parliament should also be given that right to write a note. I am a Member of Parliament and I should be able to write a note bearing witness to a child in Minyela so that he can also go and obtain a birth certificate. We should not be wasting time, making people to commute to and from.
I came here to Parliament and took the oath that I will abide by the laws of Zimbabwe and if I write a note that a child should be given a birth certificate, that document should be taken as authentic because I did not come here to lie. Some Hon. Members have already spoken before me, Hon. Nduna and Hon. Minister Chimene. This is a very painful thing for people to be moved round and round. Hon. Chamisa, who is Mr. Tsvangirai’s deputy, also spoke about a very important issue.
He spoke about the issue of ICT, which is very important.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think about a month and some days ago, a certain lady approached me, she lives in Minyela but originally comes from Rusape. When she tried to obtain a birth certificate, she was told to go to Rusape, but she does not know anyone in Rusape. She was born in
Bulawayo and grew up there. So, she approached me and said, “Hon. Member of Parliament, where exactly should I go in Rusape, who do I approach because I do not know anyone?” It is because we have failed to install computers, they could just have clicked on to the computer and all the information could have appeared from there. There is no need for that lady to go to Rusape. We have fibre cables and people should get information whilst they are in Bulawayo or elsewhere and this would make life easier for everyone. As people’s representatives, we should make life easier for them.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to concur with what was said by other Hon. Members. When we leave this place, the Minister of Home Affairs should come and give us answers through a Ministerial Statement. All those children who do not have birth certificates should be given those documents freely. It should happen instantly like a rat-killer which kills rats instantly. If we do that, it shows that we are really representing the people.
Mr. Speaker Sir, today is the 21st, it is the President’s Birth Day. Let us declare that everyone should just obtain those documents. They should not be asked questions. Let us give those documents freely because it is their right. It was our mistake; we should carry the burden and issue those documents freely. For that reason Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me this opportunity to speak about this very important issue. Lastly, I would like to ask all the Hon. Members here to say Happy Birthday to our President, Hon. R. G. Mugabe who is celebrating his Birthday today – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – I am saying Happy Birthday to the President today because we have been talking about birth certificates. We wish him many more. I would like to sing for him. [Singing happy birthday to you] – Long Live Gushungo! Siyabonga.
HON. CROSS: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I gather this afternoon, that the issue of birth certificates is the live issue. I would like to widen the debate a little bit and talk about the general functions of the Registrar General. I think this report is excellent, timely and deserves our full support. I would like to raise the issue of the application forms that are needed for the various applications attending to these different documents that people require. I have noticed through recent experience that often, these forms are only available for a fee. Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe any application form for a national identity document should be absolutely free and readily available. People do not have to queue for an application form. You should be able to acquire your application forms online through the internet.
Secondly, when you go through these different procedures to obtain any of these documents like a passport or birth certificate, there is no indication as to what the procedure is. We need a system which will provide information to people who visit the Registrar’s Office at the gate or inside the office, at the reception on the procedure. They should be given a note which indicates to them the procedure they have to follow.
Thirdly is the question of signage. Going to any Registrar General’s Office is a nightmare because you do not see any signs. You are not told where to go. You find yourself queuing in a queue and you do not know what it is for and nobody tells you. There is a desperate need for signage at all Registrar Generals’ offices.
The fourth issue Mr. Speaker Sir, is the question of birth certificates.
I just want to highlight to Hon. Members that at least a third of Zimbabwean young people today do not have birth certificates. I am told in my district, it is 37%, which is 2.5 million Zimbabweans without the requisite documents, essential for life. Mr. Speaker Sir, this is not a small issue, this is a national issue. I hope that when the Hon. Minister comes to respond to this report - I hope you will push him to come quickly – this is one issue that we will make sure that it is attended to immediately because it is not difficult.
On the question of national identity cards, obviously Mr. Speaker, this should be awarded to the child after birth along with the birth certificate. There should be no question of him or her having to wait after other procedures. That procedure should follow automatically. When they apply for a passport, it should be automatically given to them with the appropriate numbers, in addition to the national identity card.
I, through personal experience, have got five grandchildren. These grandchildren are reaching the age now where they will require IDs and passports and I can tell you, going to the Registrar General’s Office is a nightmare. It takes days. You have to queue for days, after that you cannot even get attended to in 24 or 12 hours. This simply is not acceptable because these are basic rights.
There is a question of dealing with national registration for Voters’ Roll. The question of the digital link – Mr. Speaker, we have a national registration for citizens. It is digital and it is fully biometrical. It shows you your picture, your signature and your fingerprints. It is one of the most modern basic citizenship registries in the world. That is an instrument that we need to use for the other functions of Government. I agree with Hon. Chamisa that virtual rights are to be automatic as 2018, you go to voting and you should be eligible to vote.
On the question of passport applications, in elsewhere, the world, you make your application for passports online and there is no delay. When my son, who was born in Zimbabwe and has lived here his whole life, he is now 50 years old, when he applied to the Registrar General’s Office some years ago for a passport, he had so much trouble in getting a passport so much that he gave up. My great grandfather was a missionary from Island. He found out where he came from and sent a fax to the Irish Immigration Department claiming citizenship of Island on the basis of my great grandfather, six generations ago. He received response immediately by fax and he was issued a passport which arrived by mail, three weeks later.
Mr. Speaker, a passport is a right. Nobody should be denied a passport if they are born in Zimbabwe, that is the simple reality. All the nonsense that we go through at the Registrar General’s office has to be done away with. The last thing that I want to mention is the point that
Hon. Chimanikire raised, the condition of the Registrar’s Offices. I do not know what we are paying in terms of fees, for we pay a lot of money for passports and we pay a lot of money for other services. What are they using that money for? I looked at the Ministry of Home Affairs’ figures in the Budget for this year, there is over $200 million in that Budget which are funds accruing to the Ministry from the services it provides.
Mr. Speaker, there is no reason why they cannot spend some of that money on fixing their buildings. The buildings are disgraceful. The conditions under which Ministry staff works is absolutely unacceptable. I want to suggest that we make this a priority issue. It is not a question of is no money because the money is there. Take these fines that the police are collecting, you will not see a single police station in Zimbabwe today that is not painted. You will not see a single police station with the fences that are not fixed. You go into a police station, sometimes you even see flowers on the table. That is the work that we want these non-statutory funds to be put to. There is no reason why the
Registrar General’s Offices cannot be treated in the same way. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on the report tabled by Hon. Auxillia Mnangagwa. The Committee did a good job. I was quite hurt by the fact that people now pay money for birth certificates, passports and for identity documents. The amount that is required for payment of passports is excessive. The stationery used is purchased by Government funds and they can make thousands of passports per day using the machinery that they have. The fees are exorbitant and if you want a same-day service passport, you pay through the nose. Our communal dwellers cannot afford to pay that amount. Passports are not meant for the working class only. Communal dwellers or people in the rural areas should also afford to acquire passports.
Passport fees should be reduced and this Ministry should decentralise its activities to district level so that our people donot travel for more than 200 km to acquire a single passport, unless if you want to say that people that are in urban centres are the ones who should access these passports. Communal dwellers in our constituencies cannot afford to come to Harare, a distance of 200 km. They sleep at the passport office and they require food. They end up acquiring the passport at around $500 because they will be suffering.
Firstly, the passport fees are exorbitant, they should be reduced and secondly, there should be decentralisation of these services. In this august House, we pass the Budget and if people do not pay for IDs, it would mean that the said Ministry cannot function properly. There should be Budget allocation for activities. They are now robbing our people because we give them insufficient funding through the allocation of the Budget. There should be free acquisition of passports, birth certificates and identity cards. We do not have money in Zimbabwe but we should not make our people suffer because we want to raise funds. When we are talking of jobs, we say people should be self-reliant and they must be paying for services.
Everyone born in Zimbabwe and even those born outside
Zimbabwe, once they reach 18 years of age, they should get their birth certificates and identity cards for free. It is their constitutional right. It is an offence for the Government to fail to provide a citizen with the relevant documents. The Constitution should be followed to the later. I believe we are not following the Constitution Mr. Speaker because in the Constitution, there is no requirement for a witness such as a grandfather or someone who is older than you or two elderly persons or two men for you to acquire a birth certificate. It is said it is a right for a citizen to have a birth certificate. The Constitution says that anyone who knows whose child is is the mother. Grandfathers’ surnames are now being used and we have problems when a child who has the same totem with the grandfather inherits the chieftainship and gives us problems.
Acquiring a birth certificate should be easy. It should not be difficult for the woman to acquire a birth certificate for the child.
People’s lives should be exercised. The Constitution did not come up as a result of us only. People gathered and there was an outreach. If people were aware that the Constitution was not going to be followed, the people were not going to talk about it, and they were saying Parliament should talk about that issue. Our offices should grant our citizens their rights, not only should these rights be granted, they should be seen to have been granted documentation to enable them to go alone to acquire an identity document when they become of age.
There are a lot of requirements that are required for one to acquire a birth certificate. The system should be made easy specifically for those that are in the communal lands. Those that are in urban centres easily reach the centres where they are acquired. The people in the communal lands cannot acquire a single dollar. The ones in towns can run around, chased by the police as they raise money. The children never applied to be born. The father and the mother brought this child because of their love. So, the child should get their right.
We thank the Committee for their investigation. It is important to us as a country. The Committee’s report should not just be treated lightly. The Committee used Government funds for its outreach or field visits. We therefore urge the relevant Ministry to look into this law and that we should have this law. Let us follow this Constitution so that our lives become easier.
I believe by so doing, we will achieve something. The motion is said to be moved by the birthday. We have already started and we are saying congratulations Gushungo for your birthday. We wish you many more years. Reach 120 years ruling this country of Zimbabwe.
Parliament of Zimbabwe says congratulations. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing me to contribute to this motion. My colleagues have done justice to this motion. They have contributed almost all the important things. I will just try to dwell on one or two things. In the spirit of my colleagues on the other side that are celebrating a birthday, it is an indicator of the importance of the motion that has been raised by the Committee that we need birth records. We need records that identifies people because it is on the strength of those records that today, people are aware that someone is celebrating 93 years of age.
The importance of age can be gleaned from the performances. I was looking at Hon. Chamisa as he was debating. I am sure he celebrated his 38th or 39th birthday a few weeks ago. I try to compare his performance with what I saw yesterday on national television. Hon. Speaker, I have got nothing else, but to conclude that age is not only in numbers, it also reflects on the performance of an individual. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
So this is the importance that we get from the need of having a proper registration that takes place in the country because a ninety something year old person no longer has the capacity to perform...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Sibanda. I
think it is important that you need to stick to the topic. Do not dilute the flow.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I am speaking to the motion that speaks about the need for the Registrar’s Department to be well equipped and in the same process, I am simply identifying that it is the national identification documents that tells us someone’s age. I simply went further to distinguish. I did not go outside the motion. I am simply explaining myself. Hon. Speaker, the other important thing that has not been indicated in the debate by my colleagues on this motion is the notoriety that exists in the department of registration.
I was listening carefully to the recommendations that were given. Some of the recommendations are that, we need to go e-governance. We need to go into e-registration but however, no one really asked themselves why we have got such a key department that has not gone digital. If you ask me Hon. Speaker, the notoriety lies in the fact that this is the only Government department that is headed by a person who is over pensionable age. It is the only one. It is the only department that I know of which is headed by someone who is close to eighty something years, when Government laws say that at 60/65 years, someone should retire. I think that is the notoriety that you can see in this department and the reason why it is not performing well. It is not performing well because it is being led by an aged person. –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order in the House.
Hon. Munengami having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order vaMunengami. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Order, in the House Hon.
Members. Hon. Holder, order in the House.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of order is
that we cannot discuss about Mr. Mudede because he is not a Member of this House. Secondly, we should not talk about the President because he is not an employee. He is the President of this country and he should be respected. We cannot fool around with the President like what they are doing. This Hon. Member is very young and should respect the
President. Had this country not been fought for, all the privileges that we enjoy should not have been available to us.
Hon. Munengami having stood up again.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Munengami, order in the
House.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MAHOKA: Mr. Speaker, there is no quorum in this august House. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Bells rung.
HON. J. TSHUMA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. There is no need for bells to be rung because there is no motion for a quorum. Where is the Member who actually called for the quorum then, let us continue with the debate - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
*THE ACTING SPEAKER: That is the procedure when
someone calls for a quorum.
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70
Members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE ACTING SPEAKER adjourned the House without question put at Four Minutes to Five O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following Members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Beremauro, G.; Hon. Chamisa, N.; Hon. Chapfika, D.; Hon. Chibaya, A.; Hon. Chikomba L.; Hon. Chikuni, E.; Hon.
Chitembwe, V.J.; Hon. Cross, E.G.; Hon. Dziva, T.M.; Hon. Gabbuza
J.G.; Hon. Hungwa, G.; Hon. Kaundikiza, M.; Hon. Khumalo, M.; Hon.
Khupe, T.; Hon. Mahiya, M.; Hon. Majaya, B.; Hon. Mangami, D.; Hon.
Maondera, W.; Hon. Mashange W.; Hon. Matambanadzo, M.; Hon.
Matimba, K.M.; Hon. Matsunga, S.; Hon. Mhona, F.T.; Hon.
Mnangagwa, A.; Hon. Munengami, F.; Hon. Ndlovu, M.S.; Hon.
Ndlovu, N.; Hon. Nduna, D.; Hon. Nyere, D.; Hon. Phiri, F.P.; Hon.
Runzirwayi, J.M.; Hon. Rungani, A.; Hon. Sansole, T.W.; Hon. Sibanda,
Dubeko P.; Hon. Sindi, C.; Hon. Toffa, J.; Hon. Tshuma, J.; Hon. Uta, K.; Hon. Zhou, P.; Hon. Zvidzai, S.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 21st February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. MAZIWISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. My point of order is in respect of Standing Order No. 68 (d), a point of privilege. Mr. Speaker we are what we are today, all of us, united in our diversities as black, white people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker, let me go straight to the point. We are here as Members of Parliament of this country – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]
Hon. Members having stood up.
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): Hon.
Members, please resume your seats.
HON. MAZIWISA: We are here because of President Robert
Mugabe...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please resume your
seat.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, when you say you
have got a point of order, let it be a point of order.
HON. MAZIWISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, it is a point of privilege. Today as Members of Parliament, we are who we are in large part if not inclusively because of a man, President Robert Mugabe – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- who is celebrating his birthday today. We want to sing, we want to celebrate President
Mugabe’s birthday - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - congratulate and sing happy birthday to President Robert Mugabe – [HON. MEMBERS: Haivhiyiwe, haichekwi, takapinda ne Vote, we will
not allow that.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, take your seats. Both sides please, when I call for order, respect the Chair. Hon. Member, the matter is not provided for in our Standing Orders, it can only proceed with unanimous concurrence of the whole House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Hon. Members, the Speaker has made a ruling.
HON. MLILO: I have a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLILO: I do not have a point of order but I have a point of privilege. If you give me an opportunity to air it out I would appreciate it. My point of privilege is, we need to appreciate where we are going – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order! Order Hon. Members!
Without an exception, when I say order, I need order maintained in this House. Hon. Mlilo, I have already made a ruling and you stand up again repeating the same thing. Resume your seat.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker.
Order, order. Hon. Members, we do
not want to take this House as a circus. When the Speaker has made a ruling, it must be respected.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Mr. Speaker, it is a different issue
altogether.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. I have heard someone
singing there. Who is singing? Hon. Members to my left, who was singing – [HON. MEMBERS: Ngaabude!] - Order, order! Your point of privilege should not be the same as the one I have just ruled on.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. On a point
of privilege, I want to acknowledge and celebrate the life of a woman who has not only stood out advancing the women’s rights but also advanced the education of women and men of Zimbabwe, Professor Kurasha – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Mr. Speaker Sir, we all know that Professor Kurasha was the champion who started the Zimbabwe Open University (ZOU), which we have all benefited from. I am also a beneficiary of ZOU.
Order. I did not allow you to debate.
I said you should be brief.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: That is the brief that I am giving. Thank you Mr. Speaker, I am talking of a woman who advanced the education of women and men of this country – [AN HON. MEMBER: It is now a motion.] – No, it is not a motion. I was just saying one statement.
Thank you.
HON. MAZIVISA: Mr. Speaker, with your assistance, I just want to get the difference between a congratulatory and a condolence message
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Can you take your seat. Order,
order.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. My
question is, the Hon. Member has posed a question and you have not given us a ruling on the difference between the two issues. So, we want the meaning and we want to celebrate the life of the President in this
House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Mutseyami, may you leave
the House please – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order in the House, Hon. Members to my right! Hon. Mupfumi, when I am talking, please respect the Chair. Order, order. Hon. Mahoka, when the Chair has made a ruling, that ruling must be respected. On Professor
Kurasha’s issue, it is about someone informing the House that she is now late. On the other motion, I asked him to submit a motion where everyone can debate because it can take the whole month or the whole week for people to debate.
HON. GUZAH: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. GUZAH: My point of order Mr. Speaker, was with regards to Hon. Mutseyami who has now left the House.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Is he in the House now – [HON.
MEMBERS: Where is he? He is not even here. You are out of order.] – You are not the spokesperson. I can also see with my eyes, he is not here.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 6,
2016]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Reading of the National Competitiveness Commission Bill.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. CHAMISA: I am not so sure if what the Hon. Minister has indicated is quite consistent with our expectation as a House because the last time we had the Minister on the floor, he had indicated that he was going to consider the submissions we had made. We were under the impression that...
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. HOLDER: Gara pasi Chamisa nditaure point of order. My point of order is that Hon. Chamisa is mentioning what the Hon. Minister is supposed to be doing but the debate was adjourned. Saka toda kucontinya debate iroro.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, you are out of order Hon.
Holder.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move
that the debate on motion on the Second Reading of the National Competitiveness Commission Bill (H.B. 6, 2016) which was adjourned on the 16th February, to today, be further adjourned to the second March, 2017. Thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 2nd March, 2017.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
SOCIAL DIALOGUE DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN GOVERNMENT,
BUSINESS AND LABOUR
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. You recall that last week on Wednesday, Hon.
Mpariwa asked me a specific question on the Social Dialogue
Discussions and the TNF. I had responded that there was a motion which was supposed to be reinstated on the Order Paper and I would give an adequate response to that motion. The mover of that motion, Hon. Hlongwane has since been appointed Minister in Government and the seconder of that motion Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo has also been appointed a Government Minister.
So, in the absence of somebody who moved that motion, I am persuaded to submit a ministerial statement in response to those issues. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to acknowledge the mover of the motion, Hon. Hlongwane and seconded by Dr. Gumbo. That motion was enthusiastically debated by Hon. Chikwinya, Hon. Tarusenga, Hon.
Cross and Hon. Matangira. The motion is a clarion call on Government to initiate a Social Dialogue Discussion between Government, Business and Labour and for my Ministry to activate the TNF comprising the said parties.
As we respond to this motion and the attendant debate, we are encouraged that all contributors rose above partisan politics and spoke to putting economic interest of the nation first and above all. We concur with Hon. Cross that as our economy grows; it lifts everybody, those in opposition and those in Government. We again agree that our potential as a people, economy and as a nation is enormous as it is important to highlight that Government, Business and Labour might on face value appear to be coming from diametrically opposed fundamentals, economic growth and prosperity can only be achieved through funding goal congruency in this tripartite agreement.
They are difficult issues but these difficult issues have to be tackled head on. There are issues of lack of trust and diminished confidence in each other. It is imperative that this divide be reduced. We agree with the House that the key to prosperity is found in consultation, consensus and agreement, as has been submitted in debating this motion. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is therefore both heartening and welcome to respond to shared values, common purpose and a shared vision.
Hon. Members spoke a lot about a social dialogue platform and/or establishing a social dialogue framework. It is refreshing to reflect that the Government, Business and Labour representatives have since 1998, established the TNF as a means to pursue dialogue on socio economic issues with a national outlook. Although unlegislated, the TNF has managed to bring together the tripartite partners to discuss pertinent issues affecting the country. In the early years of its existence, the TNF began discussions on what has now come to be called the Kadoma Declaration towards a shared national, economic and social vision which was concluded in 2009, and launched at the highest level by His Excellency, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe on the 26th February,
The TNF has made several attempts to conclude a social contract through adoption of various protocols aimed at enhancing economic growth. On the first of June, 2007, the TNF adopted the following protocols; the first one was on prices and income stabilisation, restoration of production viability and the last one was on mobilisation, pricing and management of foreign currency. Mr. Speaker Sir, given the economic hardships and mistrust among the tripartite partners prevailing at that time, the implementation of the protocols could not take off.
The TNF later renewed its commitment to the dialogue process in 2009. The Kadoma Declaration seeks to address the country risk factor given the negative perception that investors and the international community have on Zimbabwe. In achieving its objective, the
Declaration outlines the roles and responsibilities of each of the tripartite partners.
The Declaration identifies areas in need of intervention and spells out the action that should be taken. Issues such as delay in policy implementation, corruption, unsustainable micro-economic fundamentals and bad country image are highlighted. The implementation of the Kadoma Declaration was designed to be complemented by specific protocols that I have already mentioned.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with regards to the implementation of the Declaration, to date it has been disseminated through publicity campaigns in five provinces which are; Harare, Bulawayo, Manicaland (Mutare), Midlands (Gweru) and Mashonaland West Province (Chinhoyi). Whilst a lot of progress has been made in the following areas;
- strengthening of the institutions of governance,
- empowerment of indigenisation,
- depoliticisation of the workplace,
- stability in the micro-economic fundamentals, and
- eliminating election related violence
Other areas are still outstanding such as; contradictory policies statements, corruption and use of informatory language and demonisation and these I insist, have to be addressed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, having due regard to the foregoing, my Ministry has convened consultative meetings with the Tripartite partners with a view to conclude a social contract. The Government team of the TNF met on the 2nd of December, 2016 and finalised its submissions which was then discussed by the parties on the 9th of December, 2016. All parties have agreed to work together towards achieving this collective goal. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is envisaged that the social contract will address fiscal and monitory policy implementation. Prices and incomes stabilisation, sectorial productivity enhancement in areas such agriculture, mining, manufacturing and tourism, among others. The following issues were discussed and agreed as possible ways of stabilising the economy and should be actively pursued and these include:
- Promotion of investment;
- diaspora engagement;
- implementation of Sustainable Development Goals,
- implementation of Special Economic Zones;
- import substitution through implementation of Statutory
Instrument 64 of 2016 on control of goods, that is, the open general import licence;
- decrease in local tariff and utility costs which make locally manufactured products expensive. The aim is to ensure that locally manufactured goods are affordable while also being of good quality;
- addressing low productivity levels, high cost of money, that is interests rates; corruption and the high Government wage bill and parastatal reform;
- the need to expedite the implementation of principles of the easeof-doing business in order to attract investors and lastly;
- the need for regaining trust from other clusters is also underscored.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in light of the work of the TNF, its membership has made substantive progress in coming up with a draft TNF Bill to legislate the work of the TNF. The Draft Bill which will be presented in this august House, seeks to enhance accountability within the TNF. With your permission, I will now take the House through the guideline principles envisaged in the TNF Bill:
- parties to the TNF – the proposed TNF Act shall define the parties to social dialogue and provide for the tripartite membership of
Government, organise business and organise labour at the TNF. Other stakeholders maybe co-opted into specific TNF deliberations whenever issues that require their expertise are under consideration;
- group autonomy and tripartite participation.- Mr. Speaker Sir, the proposed TNF Act shall provide for the manner of representation of parties at the TNF with appointees freely and independently chosen by the respective tripartite constituencies. The Act will
bind specified members to participate in good faith in the work of the forum at appointed times and in a prescribed manner;
- equality of parties and mutual ownership of social dialogue process - Speaker Sir, it is our intention that the proposed Act will provide for the equality of the parties through participation of the tripartite constituencies in equal members within the TNF structures. This would foster stakeholder commitment and mutual ownership to the social dialogue process;
- subordination of sectoral interest to national interests - Speaker Sir, it is of utmost importance that parties to the TNF should put national interest ahead of sectoral interest. In this regard, the TNF Act shall provide for the observance by parties of fundamental principles that guide the social dialogue process for it to be meaningful, sustainable and effective. The fundamental principles include the subordination of sectoral interests to national interests as well as the exercise of mutual respect and accountability to one another;
- the TNF structures – the proposed Act shall identify the costructures of the forum and prescribe the functions of each level, thereby establishing a clear chain of command to facilitate accountability, coordination and efficiency. The proposed Act shall outline the structures of the TNF. Presently the main TNF is the supreme policy and decision making arm of the forum which is supported by three policy clusters that are divided into social, economic and labour market policy issues. These policy clusters are supported by a technical committee which does all the technical work of the TNF and is representative of the TNF stakeholders. The secretarial work is backstocked by a TNF secretariat;
- working methods of the TNF – the proposed TNF Act shall provide for the working methods on how issues should be tabled for discussion and the manner in which agreed positions will be referred to Cabinet for approval and implementation as legally binding on the parties. The agenda of the TNF is to be set by a tripartite agenda setting Committee;
- chairing and co-chairing of TNF meetings – Mr. Speaker Sir, the tripartite constituents have agreed that the TNF shall be chaired by Government in line with the practice of the International Labour Organisation at its international labour conferences and governing body sessions. The TNF Act shall provide for the duties of the TNF’s chairperson and co-chairpersons drawn from the social partners to convene and preside over deliberations and to implement the TNF’s decisions. The proposed Act would also provide for the coordination of the role of the chairperson and cochairpersons which would enhance the implementation and monitoring of agreements;
- interface between the TNF and other stakeholders – the TNF Act shall provide for the convening of periodic consultative sessions for purposes of wider participation and consultation with various stakeholders that include the academia and development institutions among others; independent secretariat – Mr. speaker Sir, the TNF will be supported by an independent secretariat, the roles and function of which shall be provided for in the Act. The manner of appointment of the secretariat’s executive authority shall also be provided for in the Act. The TNF should be supported by an independent secretariat that is able to backstock the social dialogue process with greater efficiency. This arrangement would enable the TNF to have meetings at regular intervals on dates fixed in advance. This regularity of meeting enhances the continued relevance of the TNF to deal with issues of importance from time to time.
FUNDING MECHANISM FOR THE TNF
Finally Mr. Speaker Sir, the TNF shall be funded within the National Budget. The mandate of TNF to discuss issues of national importance requires that Government sufficiently caters for the operations of the TNF. The TNF can also receive supplementary funding from development partners and others. I hope that that adequately responds to the Hon. Member’s question. I thank you.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me thank the Hon. Deputy Minister for bringing the Ministerial Statement in terms of what I sought to find out from the Ministry on what the delay was in terms of bringing the Tripartite Negotiating Forum Bill to Parliament. Let me hasten to say, I was like - should I call for a point of order? I later thought of respecting the Minister. Why am I saying that, exactly where he has gone in terms of laying out the Bill, the introduction and so on, is exactly where I left the Bill in 2013 when I left the Ministry.
The reason for me having asked that question last week was because I know the preparatory work that I had done in the Ministry. What he has alluded to, if he were to bring the Bill even tomorrow, people would be worried for he has already brought the Bill into
Parliament. Really my question was, what is the hold up because the apparatus, set up and everything were already there when I left the Ministry.
He mentioned about the popularisation and publicity of the Kadoma Declaration and five provinces have been reached out, where are the remaining? What is the hold up in terms of popularisation because when we had actually established in 2010 and launched the Kadoma Declaration publicly, with the support of development partners? Indeed he had alluded to say it will be supported by development partners. That is the nature of the TNF, Government has no capacity whatsoever to fund the TNF or to do any activity without the support of the development partners.
May I find it from the Minister, where are we getting it wrong in terms of covering the whole batch of provinces so that we at least will be talking of the Minister bringing the Bill to Parliament. We can deliberate, and then we pass the Bill and get the apparatus going. It is worrying Hon. Speaker, that four years have gone past and the
Bill is still on the shelf gathering dust and the Minister is coming with a Ministerial Statement without even mentioning that maybe when we come back after the break, they will be able to bring the Bill to Parliament. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. T. KHUMALO: My question to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services is were you already presenting the Bill that has not come to Parliament or you were just informing us that it is there.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): Hon. Member, it was a Ministerial Statement which was clear and you are posing a question whether that was a Bill presentation.
HON. CHAMISA: My question of clarification from Hon. Deputy Minister is to do with the issue for commitment. He said there is a realisation in terms of the Kadoma Declaration, that there are issues that are outstanding, issues to do with corruption and inconsistencies of policy. Is there any timeframe as to the programme of action within Government to deal with those outstanding issues because they are very important, not just in terms of the TNF framework, but in terms of ease of doing business.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
On Hon. Khumalo’s intervention, what I am submitting in this House are the principles which will be governing the crafting of the Bill.
When you take them to Cabinet, you take them through as principles. So, I gave you an outline of the salient features of the Bill as it will be coming through. Mr. Speaker Sir, if Hon. Members would go through my submission they will see that the principles I presented today are indeed different from the principles that, with due respect, Hon. Mpariwa submitted to Cabinet in 2013.
On the issue that Hon. Mpariwa brought up, the main issues which came through was for us to table a timeframe on when the Bill will be submitted into Parliament. It is our wish and fervent hope that by the third quarter, that Bill should be through Parliament for discussion. On the issue that Hon. Chamisa raises on corruption and related issues, Hon. Chamisa will appreciate that those issues
interface other Ministries as we run through the ease of doing business. There is the need for a combined answer from an InterMinisterial taskforce to completely address the timeframes and when that can be achieved. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 2 to 16 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 17 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE,
HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON SERVICE
DELIVERY BY THE REGISTRAR GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT HON. A. MNANGAGWA: I move the motion standing in my
name that the House takes note of the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services Delivery by the Registrar-General’s Department.
Hon. Mukwangwariwa having seconded the motion instead of
Hon. Chimanikire
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: On a point of order. The Hon. Member seconded but according to the Order Paper I am supposed to second and I am present. I do not have a spokesperson in Parliament.
I second.
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.
1.0 Introduction
1.1 The Registrar General’s Department is the sole authority that provides vital civil registration and travel documents to ensure that all citizens are properly registered. In pursuit of its mandate, the Department is guided by the following Acts of Parliament:
- The Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act 2013
- Citizenship of Zimbabwe Act [Chapter 4:01]
- Births and Death Registration Act [Chapter 5:02]
- Burial and Cremation Act [Chapter 5:03]
- African Marriages Act [Chapter 5:07]
- Marriages Act [Chapter 5:11]
- National Registration Act [Chapter 10:17]
Brands Act [Chapter 19:03]
- In conducting its enquiry, the Committee visited Mashonaland
West, Midlands, Bulawayo and Matabeleland North Provinces. Your
Committee would like to thank the Ministry officials at the various
Provinces for their cooperation.
- The objectives of the enquiry were to receive firsthand information from the clients of the Registrar General’s Department and to ascertain customer satisfaction on the services rendered. Furthermore, the objectives of the enquiry were to get an appreciation of the challenges encountered during the service delivery by the Department and to make recommendations which the Committee deemed fit.2.0
Methodology
2.1 As part of its oversight function your Committee applied the following methodology to get an appreciation and assessment of service delivery within the Registrar General’s Department:-
- Approached the Provincial offices for a briefing, outlining the objectives of the Committee.
- Visited identified centres of the Registrar General’s Department
- The Committee also gathered information through the following means;
- Observation method – at the service centres; ii.Interaction with clients on how they were served; iii. Interviews with officials on the quality of service given and feedback by customers on their satisfaction of such services; iv. Conducted surveys on accessibility by clients of primary documents;
- Checking on the appropriateness of infrastructure at places visited; and
- At the end of each day the Committee would hold meetings to deliberate on observations.
- Core Functions of the Registrar General’s Department
- In the administration of the Acts under its purview, the
Department provides the following:-
- services relating to registration of births, deaths, national identity documents, passports, citizenship, brands and marriages;
- the production and issuance of travel documents.
As part of its service provision, the Department sets out standards that it adheres to. These standards relate to the time taken to process the documents which varies from 1 to 20 working days depending on the circumstances except for travel documents which may take up to 4 weeks to process.
- Other standards set by the Department relate to issuing of birth certificates and burial orders within one working day. An application for a death certificate takes three working days while the issuance of a duplicate takes five working days. The issuance of duplicate death certificates through mail received from Provinces and Districts takes up to twenty working days.
- The Department also issues brand certificates, marriages certificates, citizenship certificates, national identity documents, travel documents and provides mobile registration. Application and processing of certificates over the counter at the Central Registry takes up to fourteen working days. Application and processing of livestock brand certificates through mail at Provinces takes twenty working days.
Proceedings of the Committee
4.0 Mashonaland West Province
4.1 Your Committee visited the Provincial Registrar General’s office in Mashonaland West where it received evidence on the activities of the Department. In his briefing, the Provincial Registrar, Mr. Wilbert
Chirenda informed the Committee that the Province had seven administrative districts comprising Chinhoyi, Hurungwe, Kariba, Zvimba, Chegutu, Mhondoro-Ngezi and Sanyati. Apart from the main district offices the Province has 18 sub-offices, some of which are located at the hospitals. For example, Chinhoyi Provincial Hospital accommodates the Registrar General’s office for purposes of issuing burial orders. Karoi and Kariba districts have sub-offices. Zvimba does not have a hospital sub-office but utilises the ones at Banket and Mutorashanga Mine. Chegutu has two sub-offices in Norton and
Mhondoro-Mubaira. There is no sub-office in the town of Chegutu. Mhondoro-Ngezi is still a new sub-office in the Province. Sanyati district office which was formerly Kadoma has two sub-offices, one at Chakari Mine and the other one at Sanyati Arda office.
4.2 The Province has not conducted any outreach programmes since 2013 despite the fact that the majority of the poor people are in the communal areas and require services. Mr Chirenda said, “We used to go out each year for about 3 months taking our services to these people.
Our nearest offices are sub-offices which are about 60km away from the people.”
All the seven main offices are computerised and all data is transmitted to the production centre via satellite. The Department attributed its computerisation success to the retention fund. However, the main challenge was the inadequacy of office space and accommodation due to lack of funding. For example, eleven officers were operating from a small office, obviously creating long queues.
4.3 The Department had inadequate fuel to cater for visits to sub- offices. Some sub-offices, like Sanyati, were said to be 120km from the District Offices making it difficult to visit and monitor service delivery by staff in outlying areas on a regular basis. There was also need for adequate human and material resources as a way of improving service delivery in places like Hurungwe where a lot of people had no access to primary documents.
4.4 In the course of its enquiry on service delivery, Hon. Members of the Committee had the opportunity to interview some of the clients at the Provincial Registry in Chinhoyi. Your Committee was informed of some of the challenges encountered. For example, one old woman aged 64 from Chakari who wanted to apply for a passport was advised that her metallic identity card had numbers that were not visible hence she had to apply for a polythene identity card from her district of origin in Sanyati. Such a situation created inconveniences and unnecessary costs to the client. Further to that, some clients were made to stay in the queues for long hours without receiving any service. A case in point was that of a young man who was number twenty one in the queue for birth certificates but was still not served three hours after his arrival at the offices.
In response to the Committee’s observation, the Provincial Registrar attributed the delay to lack of computers at the sub-offices and electricity outages. Mr Kazingizi, the District Registrar for Sanyati in support of the sentiments by the Provincial Registrar stated that some clients were shunning green copies of identity cards issued at the district offices, in favour of the plastic cards which were only issued at the provincial offices.
4.5 Your Committee was further informed that among challenges encountered were situations where clients failed to bring their biological parents when they wanted to register for their primary documents. In such cases, clients were asked to go back to their original homes and bring their village heads as was the case of an 18 year old from Manicaland who was requested to do so by the officials.
4.6 In terms of service delivery, your Committee observed that at the passport offices, long queues were a thing of the past. The officials were managing to serve their clients as and when they came. Sub-offices were very helpful in the provision of service to the public. In MhondoroMubaira, people were said to be getting computerised birth certificates as the Department had moved away from the manual system. In terms of costs, there had been saving measures as evidenced by situations where clients were now paying once for a computerised birth certificate.
4.7 Computerisation had assisted a lot compared to the past. Suffice to say whenever an individual lost his/ her passport and did not know the identity card number, they could approach the offices with their correct names in their correct order and information would be retrieved from the computer in no time at all to the client.
4.8 Your Committee also visited the half completed Sanyati District Registry whose construction commenced in 2004. It was quite disturbing to your Committee to note that the uncompleted building was already getting dilapidated before it could be utilised by the Department. The challenges bedeviling the completion of the new offices were cited as inadequate resources. Expectations were that once completed, the new offices would go a long way towards enhancing service delivery to the public.
5.0 Kwekwe Registry Office
5.1 Your Committee received a briefing on the state of service delivery in the Midlands Province from Ms. Agnes Gambura, the
Provincial Registrar. The province has eight districts, namely, Mvuma, Gweru, Shurugwi, Mberengwa, Gokwe North and South, Zvishavane and Kwekwe. Passport applications are centralised at the provincial office. However, all district offices issue births, deaths, identity cards, marriages, citizenship and livestock brand registrations.
5.2 The introduction of sub-offices had managed to alleviate pressure to the members of the public as they could access service delivery in their areas. However, the sub-offices were still not enough. Some clients walk long distances before they could access services. At times, the Department had to resort to mobile registration. However, due to financial constraints, the Department had not been able to carry out its activities of registration. The last massive registration was carried out prior to the general elections in 2013. That was when the Department had to go village by village to meet the people. At the time of your
Committee’s visit, the Provincial Registrar, Agnes Gambura, said that only limited outreach visits were being conducted, to selected areas, owing to financial constraints. At least one visit a month per selected area was considered sufficient. Your Committee further received evidence from the Provincial Registrar that sometimes children were attending school without birth certificates. However, your Committee took cognizance that in most rural schools, authorities did not chase away pupils for not having birth certificates.
5.3 The real challenge for the Department was lack of office space and accommodation. The situation was further exacerbated by the fact that the Department’s records were highly active as they were required from time to time. Further to that, officers had to share desks in their offices as the Department could not afford decent office accommodation. An ideal situation would have been the one where each officer had a self-contained office with all the requisite facilities. More offices were required if ever service delivery was to be enhanced. To this end, each local authority needed to have its own fully fledged offices.
The Kwekwe district alone had three local authorities with suboffices in Zibagwe and Kwekwe rural areas. There were also five other offices which include Loreto Mission Hospital, St Joseph’s Malisa Empress Mine, Zhombe and Silobela which issue all vital primary documents. The one in Zhombe at the DDF offices is also a replica of the main office. The other one at Loreto Hospital does not issue IDs. It only issues burial orders, birth and death certificates. At the Kwekwe office, the Department issues passport forms for onward processing at the provincial office. Your Committee was informed that all clients are served and cleared on time at the Kwekwe District Registry.
5.4 In response to a question on whether educational awareness programmes were being conducted to clients, the Provincial Registrar indicated that their officers team up with the police whenever they conduct exercises on anti-stock theft campaigns to educate the members of the public. Further to that, members of the public gave feedback to the Department on the quality of service that they received.
5.5 She further alluded to the fact that they assisted all clients who came to their offices with complaints. However, there were some clients who sought services of touts. In her briefing, the Provincial Registrar said, “we have also noticed that there are touts who visit our offices every day with a view to cash in on the clients. I have also noticed sometimes members of the general public do not want to be assisted by our officials instead preferring to be assisted by touts.”
On being questioned whether the police had been informed of the presence of the touts at the offices who could possibly have been working in cahoots with members of staff, the Provincial Registrar informed your Committee that investigations had been done and they had managed to identify the culprits.
5.6 Some clients were said to have been coming to the offices to apply for primary documents without satisfying the requisite conditions. Such cases were prevalent among aliens who were claiming that they had no relatives to testify for them. It was therefore imperative on the part of the Department to ensure that clients were properly registered.
6.0 Zhombe Sub-office
6.1 Your Committee paid an unannounced visit to Zhombe Suboffice where the officials disclosed that the main challenge facing the office was that most clients expected to get computerised birth certificates. However, the office was still issuing manual birth certificates as they did not have computers. Mr Jongwe informed your
Committee that, “…..you find that we give someone a manual birth certificate today and then tomorrow they are at the district office to apply for a computerised birth certificate. That is the same with national identity cards. We are still issuing that green waiting pass. You give someone a green waiting pass today, tomorrow they are at the district office, they want plastic identity cards”.
The situation was further compounded by lack of office space. The Sub-offices were being rented from District Development Fund (DDF) and had no electricity. On being asked whether they had the service charter anywhere in their Sub-office, the officials indicated that they had none. Consequently, the assumption was that clients were not aware of the existence of a service charter within the Department of the Registrar General.
6.2 Your Committee further observed that there were no queues at the Zhombe Sub-Office, a situation attributed to the fact that the Suboffice in the district had been the first one to have been opened. Consequently, the Department had more time to serve clients. The other reason given by officials was that clients in this area could easily access
Kwekwe where they could get computerised birth certificate and plastic IDs. Some of them did not even bother visiting Zhombe Sub-Offices.
6.3 Your Committee also observed that there were no challenges of touts in the rural areas. However, the challenge faced was that of lack of discretion on the part of the officials in dealing with cases of birth registration. A case in point was that of a student who had to meet the
‘O’ level registration deadline the following day but did not have a birth certificate. In terms of cause 11 of the Birth and Death Registration Act, the responsibility for giving notice of the birth or still birth of a child provides as follows:
- c) The headman appointed in terms of Section 8 of the Chiefs and Headmen Act [Chapter 29:01] for the community in which the birth or still birth occurred, where he had knowledge of such birth or still birth.
Efforts to reason out with the officials were futile despite the fact that there was a letter from the traditional leadership and the headmaster supporting some of the requirements required. The situation was so critical as failure to get a birth certificate meant that the student could not write her “O” level examinations.
Your Committee is cognizant of the fact that supporting letters from the traditional leadership have some credence and feels that the student should have been registered on the strength of the supporting letters. However, the officials would have none of it as they preferred referring all matters to the District Office. Such a situation compromises service delivery and needs to be attended to by the Registrar General’s Department through the exercise of due diligence.
7.0 Bulawayo Provincial Registry Office
7.1 Your Committee held interviews at the Bulawayo Provincial
Headquarters which covers the urban area of Bulawayo. The Provincial
Office also serves as a District Office. There are five sub-offices in the
Province of Bulawayo namely Nketa, Emakhandeni, Pumula, Mpilo and United Bulawayo Hospitals (UBH). Shortage of office space was said to be the major challenge at the Bulawayo Provincial Offices. At the time of your Committee’s visit, the staff establishment was 29 including that of Matabeleland North Province which operated from the same premises.
The provision of services was said to be good by the Provincial Registrar General, Mrs. Jane Peters. Your Committee observed that there were no long queues. However, the clients interviewed by your Committee complained of the attitude displayed by some officials whom they said were usually rude to them.
7.2 The Provincial Office had decisively dealt with the challenge of touts with the assistance of the police. Further to that, an efficient passport collection system had been devised by Bulawayo Province in partnership with its sister Province of Matabeleland South.
Accommodation at sub-offices was a major concern as the Department had to rely on the one provided by Department of Public Works and National Housing for its computerised department.
7.3 On service provision, Mrs. Peters informed your Committee that the Department conducted educational programmes occasionally where they sensitised members of the public on birth and death registration requirements.
Mrs. Peters bemoaned the absence of a mobile registration exercise owing to limited financial resources due to economic hardships. She alluded to the fact that some people were financially incapacitated to come to the Provincial Offices. A case in point was that of residents at Elsberry Farm which was said to be 15km away. She said that it would have been good if they could conduct mobile registration annually at such places as a way of enhancing service delivery.
8.0 Matabeleland North Provincial Office
8.1 Matabeleland North Province has seven districts, namely Hwange, Binga, Bubi, Lupane, Tsholotsho, Nkayi and Umguza. Hwange district is the only one with an urban set up as it accommodates Hwange town and Victoria Falls. The other six rural districts have 22 sub-offices divided as follows: Hwange 4, Binga 5, Bubi 2, Lupane 3, Tsholotsho 3, Nkayi 3, and Umguza 2. Due to the arid nature of the region, sources of income for registration of documents are hard to come by.
8.2 The province has a staff establishment of 215 posts. Out of these 162 posts are occupied. 53 posts are vacant. The majority of these vacant posts are at sub-office level and therefore operations at that level are compromised by inadequate manpower. In terms of achievements of the Province, your Committee was informed that the opening up of suboffices had reduced the travelling distance by clients to access services despite their geographical location. However, the distances between suboffices was still a cause for concern. Sometimes there is a distance of up to 80km between sub-offices. All the district offices are computerised in terms of their operations except Bubi District Registry which is currently not on the Zimbabwe Population Registration System (ZPRS). In his overview, the Acting Provincial Registrar, Mr Willard Saenda revealed that major challenges were acute shortage of office and residential accommodation and long distances travelled to access service delivery in most of the district.
8.3 Your Committee was further informed that Lupane District
Office which was completed in 2013 was only occupied on 14 March 2016. The delay in moving to the new building was attributed to the contractor who had left outstanding bills. As a result, service providers such as ZINWA and ZESA could not connect water and electricity supplies until the beginning of March. At the time of your Committee’s visit, the Information Technology (IT) section was working on the installation of a computer for the District Registrar. The provincial staff of 32 was still operating from Bulawayo because there was no residential accommodation in Lupane. The Department had even approached the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, but to no avail on the issue of accommodation.
8.4 Your Committee was further informed that Matabeleland North Province was not issuing passports. As a result, revenue inflows were not that much compared to other Provinces.
The Province also had a unique challenge in that its clientele worked in neighbouring countries resulting in them seeking services at certain times of the year when they came back into the country.
8.5 The Acting Provincial Registrar informed your Committee that there were also uncompleted Public Sector Investment Projects (PSIPs) such as buildings at the District Offices. For example, Nkayi District Registry Office, which was 80% complete, was being vandalised and this was a serious cause for concern. Service delivery could be enhanced if traditional mobile registration exercises were conducted and this would go a long way towards providing services to clients.
8.6 Your Committee further received evidence to the fact that a lot of children who had attained the age of 16 in the Province and required primary documents, did not have resources to go to the nearest registration points. Although the national identity cards were issued for free, it was not everybody who came forward to get them due to lack of awareness.
8.7 The Province is also affected by a bad road network which reduces the life span of vehicles. It was commendable to hear that the traditional leadership also played a role in the issuing of primary documents in Matabeleland North as they are part of the system as provided in the statutes, for example, in the surrounding areas of Lupane.
9.0 Lupane District Registry Office
9.1 Your Committee visited Lupane District Registry Offices in Matabeleland North which is divided into two constituencies. There are two sub-offices in each constituency. Most of the clients are from the rural areas. The opening of the Lupane Registry office had brought relief to the clients who had previously travelled long distances to access service delivery. At the time of your Committee’s visit, the offices had only been operating for a month.
9.2 The major challenges experienced were the frequent breakdown of their vehicle and shortage of staff and residential accommodation. The furthest distance travelled by clients to access service was 104km away, that is, Dandanda area.
10.0 Binga District Registry Office
10.1 Your Committee also visited Binga District Registry Office.
The district is one of the most densely populated in Matabeleland North
Province with a population of 140 000 people according to the 2012 Census. Binga has one main office and five sub-offices. These are situated at the district hospital, Siabuwa is about 120km from the Binga centre, Kariangwe about 100km to the south east, Tinde is 100km away, and Lusulu is about 150km away. All the sub-offices are to the eastern side of the main office because of the border with Zambia to the north and Lake Kariba to the west.
10.2 The staff compliment is 22 out of an establishment of 30. The people in this district depend on fishing because the terrain is not conducive to farming as most of the land is covered by mountains and water on the western side. They face challenges when it comes to accessing registration centres because of the bad road network. There is only one surfaced road in the district. The rest is gravel road meandering in rocky terrain. In other areas like Chunga, the roads are impassable because of rocks. The area needs good servicing of roads so that clients can access service delivery.
10.3 The district provides births registration, death registration and national IDs. The four sub-offices issue green waiting passes. The plastic IDs are issued at the main office. The hospital sub-office only covers the registration of births and deaths. The District also issues passport forms at the main office, livestock brand application forms, and accepts marriage certificates that would have been processed by marriage officers. These are the major services offered to the public.
10.4 Generally, the offices are in a poor state and not conducive for service delivery. All sub-offices are rented from different Ministries. Staff accommodation is inadequate. The new offices in Binga were yet to be completed. However, your Committee noted with concern that more than three hundred bags of cement had been left to dry up within the premises of the District Registry despite the fact that a half completed structure needed so much of that cement for its completion.
The completion of the structure would have provided the much needed office accommodation. There is definitely need for more offices to be built so that clients can travel short distances to access services. The introduction of mobile registration would go a long way towards enhancing services offered by the Department. There is also need for a four wheel drive vehicle for use on the rugged terrain so that officers can access all the sub-stations in reasonable time with ease.
10.5 Overally, your Committee was satisfied with the quality of service delivery by the Registrar General’s Department in the Binga District. Constant supervision was however curtailed by the type of vehicle used but every fortnight, sub-offices were visited to monitor service delivery. In view of the diverse languages spoken in the district, all 21 members of staff were conversant in Tonga, the dominant language and other languages. The Department also ensured that, where the staff was doubtful of the correct spelling of names, they would request clients to write down their names as a way of averting errors in the names on their birth certificates. Although the shortage of manpower was a cause for concern, whenever the need arose maybe due to illnesses or other factors, members of staff from other offices in the sub-offices would be moved to fill up the gap that would have arisen in particular sub-stations. Sensitisation on documents required for registration was always done to the community whenever the Zimbabwe Republic Police conducted its own campaigns.
11.0 Observations
11.1 Your Committee noted the following observations:-
- In the execution of its mandate, the Registrar General’s offices are open from 0745 hours to 1645 hours, five days a week from Monday to Friday. However, the offices are not accessible to the public for the processing of documents internally after 3 p.m. at the Central Registry and Provincial Offices. In districts and sub-offices countrywide, offices are closed to the public at 4 p.m. However, Provincial, District and sub-offices are open during weekends and public holidays for purposes of issuing burial orders and this is commendable as the public is not denied of this essential service.
- The core values of the Organisation were not being shared among the staff resulting in negative attitude and poor service delivery to the clients. This impacted negatively on service delivery.
- Some of the officers had an attitude problem at leadership level, that is, the Provincial Registrar in Kwekwe. In Chinhoyi they displayed lack of preparedness in dealing with matters relating to the Committee’s visit. Certain requirements were not explained to the clients and conditions set were perceived stringent much to the detriment of service delivery particularly in Mashonaland West and Midlands Provinces.
- It appeared Mashonaland West Province was receiving more resources than other Provinces as evidenced by the number of cars bought using the retention fund and other fringe benefits.
- Provinces such as Bulawayo and Matabeleland North were in a state of preparedness for the Committee’s visit and showed signs
of good service delivery to their clients, a situation which should be emulated by other Provinces as a yardstick.
- The visit by the Committee was the first ever on service delivery to the Department, hence the observation that customer care in some Provinces is none existent and the service charter is not owned by the Department in some of the places visited, that is Zhombe. Officials could not articulate what was on the service charter.
- There is inadequate office accommodation in Kadoma and yet there is an uncompleted and abandoned structure which could, when completed and utilised, enhance the quality of service delivery by the Department.
- Although there are procedures, there was also lack of uniformity on procedures on issuance of primary documents particularly for those born in urban centres, rural areas and on farms.
- The Provincial Registrar informed your Committee that there were four cases of corruption that had been detected in the Midlands Province. Some offenders had been charged and others were still waiting for finalisation of their cases.
- Mobile registration has not been conducted since 2013.
12.0 Recommendations
In view of the observations and other incidental matters made by your
Committee, the following are recommended:-
- More than thirty percent of the resources drawn from the Retention Fund should be channeled towards service delivery, for example the mobile registration exercise, by not later than 31st December, 2016.
- There is need to complete all uncompleted structures in Districts such as Nkayi, Binga and Sanyati within the stipulated budget year, that is, 31st December, 2016 iii. There is need to recognise and respect the authority of Traditional leadership as required in the issuance of primary documents all the times.
- There is need for the Ministry to sensitise and educate the public on the need to acquire primary documents by not later than the end of December, 2016.
- More provision of material and human resources in all Provinces is vital as a way of enhancing service delivery at all times. There is need for refresher courses and training in customer care for officers so that quality service may be provided by the
Department in its Provinces by 31st December, 2016.
- There is need to embark on mobile registration programmes so as to reduce the distance travelled by clients as a way of improving service delivery by not later than 31st December, 2016.
- Adequate sub-offices should be opened in the Provinces so that clients can benefit from services that are given by the Department by not later than 31st December, 2016.
- There is need to speed up the computerisation exercise before 31st
December, 2016, as has been the case at Provincial Offices.
13.0 Conclusion
Your Committee noted that if the Department had been adequately resourced in the area of office accommodation, such a situation would have assisted in reducing the time spend serving clients. In view of the fact that the visit on service delivery monitoring was the first of its kind, it enabled your Committee to get an appreciation of the challenges and first-hand information on how clients are served by the Department using the Retention Fund. It is therefore your Committee’s fervent hope that the Ministry would consider this report and take remedial measures where necessary as a way of enhancing its service delivery to the people.
I thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise to
second the Report on the visit by your Committee to the Registrar
General’s offices in selected parts of the country. Mr. Speaker, the importance of the Registrar General’s office cannot be overemphasised. They provide birth certificates, Identity Documents, as well as, death certificates when we die. So, from birth to death, they keep the records of all Zimbabweans and all citizens for that matter.
As indicated in this report Mr. Speaker, the visit was one of its kind, where for the first time, your Committee was monitoring service delivery. The manner in which we conducted these visits is, they were unannounced in most parts of the areas which we visited. We could get there and inter-mingle with the clients who had come to receive service from the various offices. We were able to interview those clients and during meetings where we got briefings from the officers in the various areas, we were able to interrogate these officers based on facts gathered on the ground through the interviews that we were having with the public.
However Mr. Speaker, of major concern was outstanding projects of office accommodation. For example, in Kadoma, trees had actually germinated and had turned what was supposed to be verandas into a forest. You could get a tree that could be as high as ten metres but growing where there was supposed to be a veranda of an office. Nothing is being done by officers that are in those areas and the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing has actually abandoned the construction. Further to that Mr. Speaker, we had ceilings falling off some of these buildings from the inside. We also have tiles that are also falling off from roofs. It is as if there is no one who is responsible, firstly for the construction and secondly for the abandonment of those projects. Sadly, despite our recommendations in our last budget that was presented in this House, the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing has not been provided with funds to complete such buildings.
The worst scenario was in Binga Mr. Speaker. When we got to Binga, we saw over 200 bags of cement that have been abandoned in the open and had been washed away by the rain and no one was taking responsibility. The contractor has abandoned the project and at the end of the day, the Government lost a substantial amount of money for no good reason. There is no construction of the new building that has taken place. This case needs investigation; whether it is criminal or absolute negligence on the part of the contractor.
Finally Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that certain rules that apply in the Registrar General’s office need to be amended. For example, one may be looking for a birth certificate and they are told to go and get three witnesses. These witnesses could be far apart from the one who wants to collect their birth certificate. If you live in Harare, you are supposed to go and collect three witnesses from Binga. It is almost near impossible. Our recommendation is that any recommendations that come from the local chiefs should be respected. There is a tendency to say even if a local chief has recommended that this child was born in this village, they will always refuse to take the written documentation in order to support the birth of a child. Some of the rules Mr. Speaker need amendment. However, I would like to thank my colleagues who are in the Committee. We had a very successful tour and I am sure that our recommendations will be implemented as we will be making a follow up in the near future. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the mover of the motion. I want to thank the Committee on Defence and Home Affairs for this noble motion. Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief and straight to the point. There are a few issues that come to mind that identity documents are an important tag reflective of an individual’s identity, history, heritage and nationality. Without these Mr. Speaker, people are just moving like zombies; they have no identity, history and heritage.
Mr. Speaker, I had a rally on 11th February in Chegutu where there were over 15 000 people – [Laughter.] - I had another one on 18th February, where there were more than 10 000 people. Of all these people Mr. Speaker Sir, 9% of them are without registration and a third of those people are children. A third of any population are children under the age of five who do not have birth certificates. Mr. Speaker Sir, what I said to them is that, as I debate in Parliament, I would want for you, one day, to be aligned to the Constitution because a nation is measured by the way it upholds its Constitution. The Constitution enjoins us and implores us to take care of registration of our children, of our keith and kin of our population.
Mr. Speaker Sir, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of a Child (UNHCR), of which Zimbabwe is also a signatory, every child has a right to a nationality. On Section 19 (1) that I would want to deal with verbatim goes as follows: It says, “the State must adopt policies and measures to ensure that in matters relating to children, the best interests of children concerned are paramount”. In 19 (2) it says, “the State must adopt reasonable policies and measures within the limits and resources available to it to ensure that children enjoy family parental care, appropriation care and when removed from a family environment”.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when we speak of a child, we also speak of their identity and their birth certificate. Under the Birth and Death Registration Act [5: 02], it is mandatory to register the birth of a child within six weeks of their birth and this responsibility is placed on parents. Mr. Speaker Sir, where I come from in Chegutu West, there are clinics and hospitals that are more than 40 km apart and a lot of these births are being done in the comfort of their homes where there is no nyamukuta or midwives and doctors and nurses. What this means is that there can never be any birth registration because there is no one to take care of the birth registration. There is no birth registration officer whereas the Constitution and the Act mandates us to register a birth within 42 days.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am aware and conscious that over 50 thousand child-headed families in Zimbabwe and over 1.3 million orphans are a good number of whom might not have been registered by their parents resident in Zimbabwe. I therefore implore, we cannot force the Executive to do what we want. We can only nag them into action. I therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, by the powers vested in me as the Member of Parliament for Chegutu West Constituency, make a clarion call that there be a moratorium for those children that have never been registered for birth. There be a six months grace period for them to be registered so that they have identity documents in the future, so that they can have birth certificates and go to school.
Where I come from, there is no child who is disenfranchisised or who is hindered from going to school because there is no birth certificate at primary school level. I have implored on parents to go with them to every primary education institution and enrol them in that primary institution so that they cannot fall behind in their education. I have also implored the headmasters in those regions to take care of those children and to make payment plans with the parents, irrespective that the child have a birth certificate or not. However, this comes to an end at Grade 7 level when they leave for secondary schools that are outside my constituency. Those headmasters therefore require that the child has a birth certificate Mr. Speaker.
It is in this regard that I now ask the Executive to make sure that these children are registered and are given birth certificates without any further delay; aware that Mr. Speaker Sir, that we are already two months into the opening of schools and those children that have left Grade 7 are now going to Form 1 where they are being prohibited from entering into class because they do not have birth certificates. This is now out of my constituency and I cannot speak for other constituencies whereas in my constituency, no child gets to be hindered going to school because there is no birth certificate.
Mr. Speaker Sir, because of this urgent matter, I request a policy position Mr. Speaker Sir, requiring that there be mobile registration entities that are going to register these children, whether or not their parents have been found. Some of them have no parents and some of them have parents that have no identity documents themselves. Some of them have parents that have identity documents that are written and inscribed alienship whereas they cannot register their children because of the alienship tag.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I bring this issue because it is in the public domain and what arena and what podium I have as a Member of Parliament is this arena. I now make a clarion call that where there are children that have not been registered at birth, in Ward 25 of Chegutu West Constituency, in Ward 24, in Ward 10 where Councillor Chikazhi comes from, that all these children be registered without any further delay. That all those adults that do not have birth registration certificates, that do not have identity cards be given a moratorium of six months and be given an opportunity to be registered without any compensation and any form of payment.
After this period of six months grace period has passed, only then can the Executive only call on them to pay $10 or $20 to renounce their alienship tag. Mr. Speaker Sir, these people used to be registered in Zimbabwe and they used to having a voting right. Now they are IDPs – internally displaced people. One came and said to me, he is 85 years old and does not know Malawi or Zambia but he is being told that in Zimbabwe he cannot vote. In Zimbabwe, he cannot be removed on the tag that he is registered on, that is alienship. I call now that all these people be registered without any impediments being put on a list that is said to be of citizens.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will take you to Section 35 of the Constitution that says, “persons are Zimbabwean citizens by birth, descent or by registration. (2), all Zimbabwean citizens are equal and entitled to the rights, privileges and benefits of citizens and are equal subjects of duties and obligations of citizens”. I say so Mr. Speaker Sir because (3) says, “all Zimbabwean citizens are entitled to the following rights and benefits in addition to any other granted to them by law (a) to the protection by the State whenever, wherever they may be”.
Mr. Speaker Sir, these are citizens and where does it also call on us to embed these people? It says in Section 38 (2) of the Constitution,
“any person who has been continuously and lawfully resident in Zimbabwe for at least 10 years, whether before or after the effective date, and who satisfies the conditions prescribed by an Act of Parliament is entitled on application to be registered as a Zimbabwean citizen”. Mr. Speaker Sir, we have 85, 36 and 45 year olds. These people have been born in Zimbabwe and they are entitled by the power of the supreme law of the land to be registered as citizens of Zimbabwe. It boggles one’s mind that we cannot make a law which we are not upholding.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I implore right now in the same vein of consequential alignment of laws, to also align our Acts and laws in order to make sure that everybody who has unfairly been called an alien, is enjoined as embodied into the Zimbabwean citizenry as a citizen, aware that the Act, Section 38 (2) empowers them to be aware also that Section 38 (3) empowers them to be. I ask also the Executive to take appropriate measures to ensure that every child in Zimbabwe, whether by birth or descent is granted a birth certificate and other identity documents issued by the State.
Secondly, a six month grace period is given for all those who on one reason or the other are not registered to do so in particular, those that come from Chegutu West Constituency. Mobile registration units are established without any impediments and delay in all the country’s districts that we heard the Chairperson of the Committee on Defence and Home Affairs allude to in Mashonaland West, where she speaks of seven administration districts which also touch on Chegutu District. Without delay, mobile registration units should be deployed particularly in rural areas where the majority of the population has gone to and are aware and cognisant of the agrarian reform programme of 2000.
Mr. Speaker Sir, also in the same vein, to raise awareness on the importance of registering children at birth and the adverse effects of not doing so, let the State play its part. The MPs and the Executive should take cognisant of the fact that I stand here today, implore and ask fervently, effectively, and vociferously for them to make sure that they do not cause an internally displaced people that then cause people without a nation that houses Zimbabweans that have been unfairly marginalised. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MANICALAND
PROVINCE (HON. CHIMENE: I would like to thank you for granting me this motion. I was touched by the report that we have received especially on the issue of the children who are no longer proceeding with their education for want of birth certificates. Hon. Speaker Sir, in the report that has been presented in this august House, I would like to touch on what I have knowledge of. If the Hon. Member was not on the phone, I was going to make reference to Binga. He was going to assist me because he was going to second that I was talking about what is
Binga.
I stayed in Binga and I am one of Binga’s residences. The places that have been mentioned in Binga have touched me. I witnessed these incidences. Children did not have access to documents, the same applied also to the elders. For a child to go to school after a birth certificate had been acquired was impossible because the mother and the father did not have birth certificates. The same would apply to the grandfather. I was disturbed by that experience and I felt touched. The Committee did very well in producing this report and highlighting these issues.
The places in Binga are too far away from each other and their roads are not tar macadamised. These are gravel roads and all the people would come to Binga Centre to acquire birth certificates. They would call at the centre without the necessary documents and they are told to bring people who are grandparents or someone who is ten years older. If you want to acquire a birth certificate for a 60 year old, you had to bring in a 70 year old person.
I have reason to commend the Committee for a job well-done. If only the Ministry could understand this. There are children in this age that came to my offices. They passed their Grade 7 examinations, but they do not have birth certificates, the same applied to their mothers. I wrote a letter asking that they assist this person and there were a number of requirements that the Registrar-General’s office gives. A number of people that are required as witnesses and the people cannot afford the busfare. If it were possible, we should take this report seriously and there should practical solutions to this report to show the good work that was done by the Committee.
I call upon the responsible officers and authorities to take the work of Parliament seriously. It should not be just an exercise that ends with the publication of the Hansard day in and day out, because a lot of work is being done by this Parliament, but it is dying out there. The Members are reporting and we urge the other arms of Government to perform their tasks so that we do not just become a talk-shop. The effects of not doing work by other arms of Government will have repercussions to the
Member of Parliament and it will be detrimental to him or her in 2018.
My duty as a Member of Parliament is to raise the issues for my constituents.
The Ministry concerned should decentalise its offices and reach them at the grassroots. Mobile registration should not only come towards election time to facilitate voter registration but it should be a normal exercise to have mobile vehicles coming to give services to the people. In three months, the mobile registration should do it once every term and they should go to places that are accessible to the people. We urge the Ministry mainly as regards children whose parents are deceased and they are without proper documents.
We are ruining the children’s future because they do not have such documentation. We are killing a generation because that lineage will never have documents and it is women who bear the brunt of these problems because children become the father’s children once they have all the adequate documentation. The child has no sufficient documentation as they are the mother’s children because the father is never bothered by such issues. Women are the ones who predominantly frequent the offices and the husbands just produces registration and say, go and acquire a birth certificate when the father himself does not have a birth certificate. We may end up with a country full of people without documentation.
I agree with the previous speaker on the issue of aliens – when did they become alien when they were born in Zimbabwe? That matter should be corrected because, if the great grandfather is the alien it is only him who is an alien and the child was born in Zimbabwe and is a
Zimbabwean by birth. Such people should be given the same rights as Zimbabwean citizens. I rose because I was touched by the report because I once lived in Binga. I had to support the people of Binga and the Committee utterances in Chitonga, unfortunately I cannot interpret Nambya.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. This is a very important report. It is important because it speaks to the basic necessities of our people. I recently had an opportunity to visit people in the rural areas in – Midlands, Matabeland, Masvingo, Manicaland and there is one common message there. People are asking for proper registration documents and identity or identification documents. It is a national chorus and our nation cannot be found wanting in terms of what this Constitution demands or requires.
In terms of Section 35, there are duties and rights but there are also benefits that are supposed to be enjoyed by citizens. These rights that are supposed to be benefitted by citizens are encapsulated in the Constitution. Some of them which are very important are in Section 35 as has already been articulated but key of them is to make sure that citizens have all the documents as provided for by the State. There is not issue of cost or payment but it is just an obligation which the State is supposed to discharge to its citizens. We are supposed to have birth certificates, identity documents issues by the State. Now, you will find that citizens in this country have not been accorded certain fundumental rights and it is an omission on the part of us as Government and as a State to say that in terms of what is supposed to be given to people:
- Citizenship is a right,
- Registration of that citizenship is a right,
- There are privileges that are supposed to be enjoyed by virtue of being a citizen, because there is only one country where we are called a citizen.
When you go to South Africa, certain things are automatically withdrawn or subtracted. Once you are in South Africa, you cannot demonstrate to say I want something because you are not a citizen. Once you are in South Africa, you cannot ask for a passport as a matter of right because you are not a citizen. Once you go to South Africa, you cannot ask to vote as a Zimbabwean in South Africa because you are not a citizen. Once you go to South Africa, you cannot ask to say, I need to be given certain protection by the State because you are not a citizen. So, because people are citizens, they have to be entitled to certain citizenship rights, including the right to vote and to participate in political processes, social processes and economic processes.
Hon. Speaker, I have just taken this stand to make five key recommendations as a way forward and as a way of enriching the report that has already been tabled before Parliament; which is a very rich report and I think that we must thank the Committee for an extensive amount of work that was put into this. I realise that if our Parliament is going to continue to do work in this regard, this is not about parties but this is about our nation and what is good for our citizens. We have a duty as oversight leaders to come and present reports and work that captures the aspirations of our people.
These are my five suggestions - First of all, we need root and branch reform at the Registry office. We need fundamental reform at the Registry office. It is not just reform at systems level for operations, but, it is also reform even at the very top. Mr. Mudede has been there, he has done a good job but we must also begin to think about reform, post - Mr. Mudede, so that… – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is an advocate.] –
He is an advocate, but he should be an advocate at home – [HON. MEMBERS: Laughter.] – So that we allow reform in a fundamental way and manner at that Registry Office. There is serious reform – reform
that would entail making sure that we change systems, we de-centralise our registration. People should not just come to Harare for simple things like birth certificates. Let us have people in Thsolothso getting their birth certificates in Thsolotsho. Let us de-centralise birth certificates in Binga. We cannot Hararerise everything. Let us de-Hararerise everything so that it is there in Matabeleland or Manicaland – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
It is cheaper that way, let us have our birth certificates in Buhera, everything cannot be in Harare. Let us go to Mpopoma, Thsolothso, so that people are able to – [AN HON. MEMBER: Let us go to Zvimba.] –
In Zvimba, they have had enough. – [HON. MEMBERS: Laughter.] – Let us go to all the provinces and make sure that documents are ubiquitous, and registration is ubiquitous. The surest way of doing that is what has already been suggested by Hon. Nduna and Hon. Chimene.
Let us make sure that we computerise our systems – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Let us digitalise our systems. Let us go on the e-Government platform. Once we go on the e-Government platform, we are simply going to have automatic registration upon birth. Once you have given birth today or birth is given to a child, let us register them there and there automatically, so that they are part of what is online. Let us have online, immediate and automatic registration. We should know at the end of the day how many children have been born in Zimbabwe today on a daily basis and they must be registered at a touch of a button.
Once you are registered by birth, you are also supposed to be given a social security number, a passport number and you are also supposed to be given a driver’s licence number which is activated upon your ability to then drive but you are already given your number. All the key numbers are supposed to be given at birth. When you die, it then has to be automatic that you have died. You do not have people who are on the voters’ roll or who are on some roll who are dead. It has to be computerised. In fact, once that has happened-it has to be automatically registered.
We need to move into what is called Evidence Based Government or Data Based Government. A Data Based Government, you do not need a census. A census is a sign of being so backward. You do not need to do a national census because you have your records all the time at the central statistical office. That is what we need. We can easily do this; I had offered my services for free of charge when I was Minister of ICT. Unfortunately, the Inclusive Government was too short a period. If we could extent that to make sure that I do my work and ensure that we go on a Data Based Government. – [Laughter.] –
Mr. Speaker Sir, there can never any national progress without your knowledge of the people you have. You should know how many are finishing Grade Seven, Form Four or Form Six; how many are retiring or refusing to retire, you should know that. That should be part of the national data base, so that you know who are stubborn and who are not - in terms of the national roll.
What is critical is for us to have national progress, let us move to put what is called a national citizens’ register. A national citizens’ register is going to have citizens by profile, citizens in terms of gender, skills and citizens also in terms of location and areas of origin. That is very important because it then helps National and Central Government in terms of planning for national progress and national development. We do not end there, we should move on to the next issue of residence rolls. We should know the residents in Bulawayo, Harare, Victoria Falls, Kwekwe; we should also know the residents in Amaveni, maiguru. That is what we should have to make sure that there is a proper national citizens’ roll. Right now we do not know who is a citizen and who is not in terms of the central roll. If it is computerised, you do not need to do much. This is a very simple thing, you will simply have to get your server, there is no iCloud and simply move on that platform.
We also need to launch a free registration of citizens nationwide, for a period of time. Maybe six months - we have to fund that. As a nation we must be able to fund that to enable our people to be on the national roll not just the voters’ roll. Let us allow people who do not have identity documents to come forward and have those documents because it is their right. It is a God-given right; it is Constitution given right and it is a national given right. So, let us make sure that we move with speed and this is what we must suggest to the Ministry that is in charge, to go on this. This is a progressive thing. Let us register our people.
I also feel that as we register our people, we must also be able to say no single citizen is supposed to queue for a passport. We must be online, there should be no queues at the National Registry Office. We do not need queues, they undermine the dignity of citizens. Let citizens have access to their documents online, it is delivered to you. Even in the rural areas, once you are able to de-centralise your information kiosks, they will not queue but to go to those centres in Mahuwe or Tsholotsho so that they are able to access their documents. It is possible, we can do it. It has been done in Rwanda. We can even do far much better, we are more educated than people in Rwanda. We are more educated than most of the people in Africa, so we will be able to do that.
Last but not least, is the issue of voter registration. If you look at the Constitution, Section 69, it is a right for a person to be on the voters’ roll. It is only that the Government has not been taken to court. If a person were to take Government to court – you are not supposed to register to be a voter. You are supposed to at the age of 18, once you attain the age of 18, it automatically transfers you to be a voter. All you need to do is just to go and confirm where you want to vote but it is an automatic voter registration process – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
–
We are archaic, we waste a lot of time, energy and resources on things that are not supposed to be wasting our time. This is supposed to be done in terms of the Constitution, Section 69 (3), it is supposed to be done as of right. The Constitution demands that you be registered, you just need to take the Government to court for not exercising their right. You do not need to do anything as a citizen. What is supposed to be done is the citizen being given the privilege of citizenship.
Hon. Speaker, having said that, I think this is a very good report.
We need to give it all the support. Let us raise the level of our citizens. Let us show that we are educated people. God has given us a very important gift – the gift of education. This is because we were putting Jesus Christ first, now with what Minister Dokora is trying to do, we are going to reverse all those gains because we are taking away Jesus Christ out of education – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
The reason why we are able to say we are the best educated people is because we had education on Christian values and God blessed us for that. Now, this thing of removing our Jesus Christ, we are also going to empty our education of the glitter and glamour. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
+HON. JOSEPH TSHUMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for
giving me this opportunity. I will speak in the vernacular so that people of my Constituency will understand what we are talking about here. We are here to represent them. Firstly Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the Committee that brought this issue here. This is a very important issue. Like all those who have already spoken before me, it is very important. It is right that everyone should have all the documents that have been mentioned.
What surprises me is that our Ministry is still dwelling on the rules that were put in place by the whites long ago, by our colonizers – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – because they are saying if you want a birth certificate, you need to bring three people and you also need to bring a lot of other things, which is what was being done by whites in order to oppress the blacks. Why should we continue doing that as blacks? We are failing if we continue doing that.
The reason why I am saying that Mr. Speaker is that, if you look at the people in urban areas, just like in the rural areas, they say that the chief can write a note which can be used as evidence that this person was born in that area. Even in urban areas, the same thing can be done. Those people who were brought here in Parliament should also be given that right to write a note. I am a Member of Parliament and I should be able to write a note bearing witness to a child in Minyela so that he can also go and obtain a birth certificate. We should not be wasting time, making people to commute to and from.
I came here to Parliament and took the oath that I will abide by the laws of Zimbabwe and if I write a note that a child should be given a birth certificate, that document should be taken as authentic because I did not come here to lie. Some Hon. Members have already spoken before me, Hon. Nduna and Hon. Minister Chimene. This is a very painful thing for people to be moved round and round. Hon. Chamisa, who is Mr. Tsvangirai’s deputy, also spoke about a very important issue.
He spoke about the issue of ICT, which is very important.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think about a month and some days ago, a certain lady approached me, she lives in Minyela but originally comes from Rusape. When she tried to obtain a birth certificate, she was told to go to Rusape, but she does not know anyone in Rusape. She was born in
Bulawayo and grew up there. So, she approached me and said, “Hon. Member of Parliament, where exactly should I go in Rusape, who do I approach because I do not know anyone?” It is because we have failed to install computers, they could just have clicked on to the computer and all the information could have appeared from there. There is no need for that lady to go to Rusape. We have fibre cables and people should get information whilst they are in Bulawayo or elsewhere and this would make life easier for everyone. As people’s representatives, we should make life easier for them.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to concur with what was said by other Hon. Members. When we leave this place, the Minister of Home Affairs should come and give us answers through a Ministerial Statement. All those children who do not have birth certificates should be given those documents freely. It should happen instantly like a rat-killer which kills rats instantly. If we do that, it shows that we are really representing the people.
Mr. Speaker Sir, today is the 21st, it is the President’s Birth Day. Let us declare that everyone should just obtain those documents. They should not be asked questions. Let us give those documents freely because it is their right. It was our mistake; we should carry the burden and issue those documents freely. For that reason Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me this opportunity to speak about this very important issue. Lastly, I would like to ask all the Hon. Members here to say Happy Birthday to our President, Hon. R. G. Mugabe who is celebrating his Birthday today – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – I am saying Happy Birthday to the President today because we have been talking about birth certificates. We wish him many more. I would like to sing for him. [Singing happy birthday to you] – Long Live Gushungo! Siyabonga.
HON. CROSS: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I gather this afternoon, that the issue of birth certificates is the live issue. I would like to widen the debate a little bit and talk about the general functions of the Registrar General. I think this report is excellent, timely and deserves our full support. I would like to raise the issue of the application forms that are needed for the various applications attending to these different documents that people require. I have noticed through recent experience that often, these forms are only available for a fee. Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe any application form for a national identity document should be absolutely free and readily available. People do not have to queue for an application form. You should be able to acquire your application forms online through the internet.
Secondly, when you go through these different procedures to obtain any of these documents like a passport or birth certificate, there is no indication as to what the procedure is. We need a system which will provide information to people who visit the Registrar’s Office at the gate or inside the office, at the reception on the procedure. They should be given a note which indicates to them the procedure they have to follow.
Thirdly is the question of signage. Going to any Registrar General’s Office is a nightmare because you do not see any signs. You are not told where to go. You find yourself queuing in a queue and you do not know what it is for and nobody tells you. There is a desperate need for signage at all Registrar Generals’ offices.
The fourth issue Mr. Speaker Sir, is the question of birth certificates.
I just want to highlight to Hon. Members that at least a third of Zimbabwean young people today do not have birth certificates. I am told in my district, it is 37%, which is 2.5 million Zimbabweans without the requisite documents, essential for life. Mr. Speaker Sir, this is not a small issue, this is a national issue. I hope that when the Hon. Minister comes to respond to this report - I hope you will push him to come quickly – this is one issue that we will make sure that it is attended to immediately because it is not difficult.
On the question of national identity cards, obviously Mr. Speaker, this should be awarded to the child after birth along with the birth certificate. There should be no question of him or her having to wait after other procedures. That procedure should follow automatically. When they apply for a passport, it should be automatically given to them with the appropriate numbers, in addition to the national identity card.
I, through personal experience, have got five grandchildren. These grandchildren are reaching the age now where they will require IDs and passports and I can tell you, going to the Registrar General’s Office is a nightmare. It takes days. You have to queue for days, after that you cannot even get attended to in 24 or 12 hours. This simply is not acceptable because these are basic rights.
There is a question of dealing with national registration for Voters’ Roll. The question of the digital link – Mr. Speaker, we have a national registration for citizens. It is digital and it is fully biometrical. It shows you your picture, your signature and your fingerprints. It is one of the most modern basic citizenship registries in the world. That is an instrument that we need to use for the other functions of Government. I agree with Hon. Chamisa that virtual rights are to be automatic as 2018, you go to voting and you should be eligible to vote.
On the question of passport applications, in elsewhere, the world, you make your application for passports online and there is no delay. When my son, who was born in Zimbabwe and has lived here his whole life, he is now 50 years old, when he applied to the Registrar General’s Office some years ago for a passport, he had so much trouble in getting a passport so much that he gave up. My great grandfather was a missionary from Island. He found out where he came from and sent a fax to the Irish Immigration Department claiming citizenship of Island on the basis of my great grandfather, six generations ago. He received response immediately by fax and he was issued a passport which arrived by mail, three weeks later.
Mr. Speaker, a passport is a right. Nobody should be denied a passport if they are born in Zimbabwe, that is the simple reality. All the nonsense that we go through at the Registrar General’s office has to be done away with. The last thing that I want to mention is the point that
Hon. Chimanikire raised, the condition of the Registrar’s Offices. I do not know what we are paying in terms of fees, for we pay a lot of money for passports and we pay a lot of money for other services. What are they using that money for? I looked at the Ministry of Home Affairs’ figures in the Budget for this year, there is over $200 million in that Budget which are funds accruing to the Ministry from the services it provides.
Mr. Speaker, there is no reason why they cannot spend some of that money on fixing their buildings. The buildings are disgraceful. The conditions under which Ministry staff works is absolutely unacceptable. I want to suggest that we make this a priority issue. It is not a question of is no money because the money is there. Take these fines that the police are collecting, you will not see a single police station in Zimbabwe today that is not painted. You will not see a single police station with the fences that are not fixed. You go into a police station, sometimes you even see flowers on the table. That is the work that we want these non-statutory funds to be put to. There is no reason why the
Registrar General’s Offices cannot be treated in the same way. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on the report tabled by Hon. Auxillia Mnangagwa. The Committee did a good job. I was quite hurt by the fact that people now pay money for birth certificates, passports and for identity documents. The amount that is required for payment of passports is excessive. The stationery used is purchased by Government funds and they can make thousands of passports per day using the machinery that they have. The fees are exorbitant and if you want a same-day service passport, you pay through the nose. Our communal dwellers cannot afford to pay that amount. Passports are not meant for the working class only. Communal dwellers or people in the rural areas should also afford to acquire passports.
Passport fees should be reduced and this Ministry should decentralise its activities to district level so that our people donot travel for more than 200 km to acquire a single passport, unless if you want to say that people that are in urban centres are the ones who should access these passports. Communal dwellers in our constituencies cannot afford to come to Harare, a distance of 200 km. They sleep at the passport office and they require food. They end up acquiring the passport at around $500 because they will be suffering.
Firstly, the passport fees are exorbitant, they should be reduced and secondly, there should be decentralisation of these services. In this august House, we pass the Budget and if people do not pay for IDs, it would mean that the said Ministry cannot function properly. There should be Budget allocation for activities. They are now robbing our people because we give them insufficient funding through the allocation of the Budget. There should be free acquisition of passports, birth certificates and identity cards. We do not have money in Zimbabwe but we should not make our people suffer because we want to raise funds. When we are talking of jobs, we say people should be self-reliant and they must be paying for services.
Everyone born in Zimbabwe and even those born outside
Zimbabwe, once they reach 18 years of age, they should get their birth certificates and identity cards for free. It is their constitutional right. It is an offence for the Government to fail to provide a citizen with the relevant documents. The Constitution should be followed to the later. I believe we are not following the Constitution Mr. Speaker because in the Constitution, there is no requirement for a witness such as a grandfather or someone who is older than you or two elderly persons or two men for you to acquire a birth certificate. It is said it is a right for a citizen to have a birth certificate. The Constitution says that anyone who knows whose child is is the mother. Grandfathers’ surnames are now being used and we have problems when a child who has the same totem with the grandfather inherits the chieftainship and gives us problems.
Acquiring a birth certificate should be easy. It should not be difficult for the woman to acquire a birth certificate for the child.
People’s lives should be exercised. The Constitution did not come up as a result of us only. People gathered and there was an outreach. If people were aware that the Constitution was not going to be followed, the people were not going to talk about it, and they were saying Parliament should talk about that issue. Our offices should grant our citizens their rights, not only should these rights be granted, they should be seen to have been granted documentation to enable them to go alone to acquire an identity document when they become of age.
There are a lot of requirements that are required for one to acquire a birth certificate. The system should be made easy specifically for those that are in the communal lands. Those that are in urban centres easily reach the centres where they are acquired. The people in the communal lands cannot acquire a single dollar. The ones in towns can run around, chased by the police as they raise money. The children never applied to be born. The father and the mother brought this child because of their love. So, the child should get their right.
We thank the Committee for their investigation. It is important to us as a country. The Committee’s report should not just be treated lightly. The Committee used Government funds for its outreach or field visits. We therefore urge the relevant Ministry to look into this law and that we should have this law. Let us follow this Constitution so that our lives become easier.
I believe by so doing, we will achieve something. The motion is said to be moved by the birthday. We have already started and we are saying congratulations Gushungo for your birthday. We wish you many more years. Reach 120 years ruling this country of Zimbabwe.
Parliament of Zimbabwe says congratulations. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing me to contribute to this motion. My colleagues have done justice to this motion. They have contributed almost all the important things. I will just try to dwell on one or two things. In the spirit of my colleagues on the other side that are celebrating a birthday, it is an indicator of the importance of the motion that has been raised by the Committee that we need birth records. We need records that identifies people because it is on the strength of those records that today, people are aware that someone is celebrating 93 years of age.
The importance of age can be gleaned from the performances. I was looking at Hon. Chamisa as he was debating. I am sure he celebrated his 38th or 39th birthday a few weeks ago. I try to compare his performance with what I saw yesterday on national television. Hon. Speaker, I have got nothing else, but to conclude that age is not only in numbers, it also reflects on the performance of an individual. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
So this is the importance that we get from the need of having a proper registration that takes place in the country because a ninety something year old person no longer has the capacity to perform...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Sibanda. I
think it is important that you need to stick to the topic. Do not dilute the flow.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I am speaking to the motion that speaks about the need for the Registrar’s Department to be well equipped and in the same process, I am simply identifying that it is the national identification documents that tells us someone’s age. I simply went further to distinguish. I did not go outside the motion. I am simply explaining myself. Hon. Speaker, the other important thing that has not been indicated in the debate by my colleagues on this motion is the notoriety that exists in the department of registration.
I was listening carefully to the recommendations that were given. Some of the recommendations are that, we need to go e-governance. We need to go into e-registration but however, no one really asked themselves why we have got such a key department that has not gone digital. If you ask me Hon. Speaker, the notoriety lies in the fact that this is the only Government department that is headed by a person who is over pensionable age. It is the only one. It is the only department that I know of which is headed by someone who is close to eighty something years, when Government laws say that at 60/65 years, someone should retire. I think that is the notoriety that you can see in this department and the reason why it is not performing well. It is not performing well because it is being led by an aged person. –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order in the House.
Hon. Munengami having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order vaMunengami. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Order, in the House Hon.
Members. Hon. Holder, order in the House.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of order is
that we cannot discuss about Mr. Mudede because he is not a Member of this House. Secondly, we should not talk about the President because he is not an employee. He is the President of this country and he should be respected. We cannot fool around with the President like what they are doing. This Hon. Member is very young and should respect the
President. Had this country not been fought for, all the privileges that we enjoy should not have been available to us.
Hon. Munengami having stood up again.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Munengami, order in the
House.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MAHOKA: Mr. Speaker, there is no quorum in this august House. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Bells rung.
HON. J. TSHUMA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. There is no need for bells to be rung because there is no motion for a quorum. Where is the Member who actually called for the quorum then, let us continue with the debate - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
*THE ACTING SPEAKER: That is the procedure when
someone calls for a quorum.
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70
Members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE ACTING SPEAKER adjourned the House without question put at Four Minutes to Five O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following Members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Beremauro, G.; Hon. Chamisa, N.; Hon. Chapfika, D.; Hon. Chibaya, A.; Hon. Chikomba L.; Hon. Chikuni, E.; Hon.
Chitembwe, V.J.; Hon. Cross, E.G.; Hon. Dziva, T.M.; Hon. Gabbuza
J.G.; Hon. Hungwa, G.; Hon. Kaundikiza, M.; Hon. Khumalo, M.; Hon.
Khupe, T.; Hon. Mahiya, M.; Hon. Majaya, B.; Hon. Mangami, D.; Hon.
Maondera, W.; Hon. Mashange W.; Hon. Matambanadzo, M.; Hon.
Matimba, K.M.; Hon. Matsunga, S.; Hon. Mhona, F.T.; Hon.
Mnangagwa, A.; Hon. Munengami, F.; Hon. Ndlovu, M.S.; Hon.
Ndlovu, N.; Hon. Nduna, D.; Hon. Nyere, D.; Hon. Phiri, F.P.; Hon.
Runzirwayi, J.M.; Hon. Rungani, A.; Hon. Sansole, T.W.; Hon. Sibanda,
Dubeko P.; Hon. Sindi, C.; Hon. Toffa, J.; Hon. Tshuma, J.; Hon. Uta, K.; Hon. Zhou, P.; Hon. Zvidzai, S.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 1st February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Mr. President, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over, until Order of the Day, Number 4 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I move the motion standing in my name that this House:
APPLAUDING the noble initiatives by the Government to
inculcate a culture of patriotism, unity of purpose and common desire for equality and justice as mandated by the Constitution;
DETERMINED to overcome any challenges that impede our resolve to cherish and uphold the fruits of our hard won independence;
COMMITTED to building a united and prosperous nation founded on core values of integrity and hard work anchored on the Constitution as the supreme law of the land;
DESIROUS to foster a strong sense of patriotism among school children as is the traditional practice in the global village;
NOW THEREFORE, strongly advocates for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I second.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I seek
permission to use my notes.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Why do you
want to read your notes?
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: So that I express myself clearly.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: It is okay.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for granting me that permission. I want first and foremost to thank the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education for developing a new curriculum for primary and secondary education (2015-2022) on the National School Pledge which was adopted and approved by the Government of Zimbabwe. This National Pledge talks about something important about the brave women and fathers who lost lives during the
Chimurenga/Umvukela. As we are seated here, we all lost relatives during the war.
The National Pledge is urging us as Members to respect those who lost their lives during Chimurenga war to liberate this country. We as a country, should preserve our national resources; we are rich enough. It is our duty as well to give ideas to the Government on how we should use these natural resources.
We should also preserve our traditions and cultures. As of now, I can see that our cultures and traditions are eroded due to not understanding our traditions in Zimbabwe. At times you see a man putting on earrings or covering his head with a scarf. So, we need to understand our traditions as Zimbabweans. This is another role of this national school pledge.
Most of these words are on page 15 of our Constitution on the
Preamble; these words were picked from there. So, we need to read our Constitution particularly on page15, we are rich. In Zimbabwe, we have many natural resources so we should be able to utilise them. We should be proud of our history as a country because without history we cannot be a nation.
Mr. President, it also urges us as a nation to unite, develop and prosper. Without unity, we cannot develop our country. So, I thank the Minister for developing this national pledge.
Whereas the Preamble of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides
that;
‘We the people of Zimbabwe,
United in our diversity by our common desire for freedom, justice and equality, and our heroic resistance to colonialism, racism and all forms of domination and oppression;
Exalting and extolling the brave men and women who sacrificed
their lives during the Chimurenga/Umvukela and national liberation struggles;
Honouring our forebears and compatriots who toiled for the progress of our country;
Recognising the need to entrench democracy, good, transparent and accountable governance and the rule of law;
Reaffirming our commitment to upholding and defending fundamental human rights and freedoms;
Acknowledging the richness of our natural resources;
Celebrating the vibrancy of our traditions and cultures;
Determined to overcome all challenges and obstacles that impede our progress;
Cherishing freedom, equality, peace, justice, tolerance, prosperity and patriotism in search of new frontiers under a common destiny,
Acknowledging the supremacy of Almighty God, in whose hands
our future lies,
Resolve by the tenets of this Constitution to commit ourselves to build a united, just and prosperous nation, founded on values transparency, equality, freedom, fairness, honesty and dignity of hard work,
And, imploring the guidance and support of Almighty God, hereby make this Constitution and commit ourselves to it as the fundamental law of our beloved land’.
We all know that Zimbabwe is a Christian country; there is freedom of worship in this country. Every person is allowed to choose a church of his or her choice, provided you abide by the laws of this country. Whether you pray in the church, under a tree or on top of the mountain, it is allowed. Whereas Section 1 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that Zimbabwe is a unitary, democratic and a sovereign republic and Section 3(1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that Zimbabwe is founded on values and principles, recognition of and respect for the liberation struggle.
The Republic of Zimbabwe, through the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, developed a new curricula framework for primary and secondary education (2015 – 2020) adopted and approved by the
Government of Zimbabwe after extensive consultations which contends the National School Pledge for infants, junior and secondary schools. Pursuant to the aforesaid provisions of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, the National School Pledge seeks to foster patriotism, honesty and hard work among the school going Zimbabwean population for the greater benefit of our great nation. The general populace was consulted on this and they made their suggestions and views known during the curriculum review process.
I urge all progressive Zimbabweans to note that this common history created by the National Pledge is a wealth platform upon which we may all be united and arise from any of our economic, social, political and spiritual foundations to build a formidable nation. Such a nation will make our millions of citizens rejoice, whether at home or abroad, young or old, male or female regardless of colour or socioeconomic status.
Zimbabwe has been lagging behind on the issue of National Pledge; the Americans, Indians, Jamaicans, Ghanaians and Nigerians, just to mention a few have long implemented the National Pledge. They have built strong traditions and a strong sense of patriotism among their citizens, empowering school going learners with a love of honesty. Dignity of hard work is a great inheritance of our nation. We cannot desire them to be lazy, corrupt or selective with the truth.
Let me recite the National Pledge. “Almighty God, in whose hands our future lies, I salute the national flag. United in our diversity by our common desire for freedom, justice and equality. Respecting the brave fathers and mothers who lost lives in the Chimurenga / Umvukela and national liberation struggles. We are proud inheritors of our natural resources. We are proud creators and participants in our vibrant traditions and cultures. We commit to honesty and the dignity of hard work.” This is the pledge. If you take my words, just read page 15 of the Constitution and you will get all these words. We need to work hard for our nation so that we are not lazy. We do not have to be beggars in the country whilst we have educated people. Criticism is allowed but it should be constructive so that we build a prosperous nation. I thank you
Mr. President.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President Sir, I seek
the indulgence of the House to move that the debate on this motion be adjourned and that all Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the
Day, Number 1 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
RESERVE BANK OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT BILL [H.B.
12, 2016]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, it is my singular honour to move that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe
Amendment Bill [H.B. 12, 2016] be read for the second time.
The Republic of Zimbabwe is currently undertaking a number of economic reforms to transform the business environment. In response to the many challenges which are besetting our economy, the Reserve Bank introduced various measures in May last year to deal with the schedule of imports and capital flight and resultant cash shortages within the national economy, whilst at the same time promoting exports of goods and services in order to increase liquidity in the economy.
Mr. President Sir, one of the measures adopted is the introduction of an Export – Incentive Scheme of up to 5% to promote the exports of goods and services. Given that the multi-currency foreign exchange system is set to continue for the foreseeable future and that its sustainability is dependent on the economy’s capacity and ability to generate foreign exchange to meet its domestic and foreign requirements, development and promotion of foreign exchange revenue streams such as exports of goods and services and diaspora remittances is critical to enhance foreign exchange reserves of the country.
Mr. President, the above together with the country’s trade deficit requires a substantial policy shift to promote exports in view of lack of competitiveness of Zimbabwean exports due to global shocks that include the strong US dollar, sharp decline in commodity prices and tighter global financial conditions. Mr. President, it is against the above background that Government, through the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe introduced the performance related export bonus scheme of up to 5% to be awarded to exporters of goods and services to address the challenges of low productivity and to promote exports with the overall aim of liquefying the multi-currency exchange system.
Mr. President, the funding mechanism of the Export – Incentive Scheme will be through bond notes which are backed by an offshore $200 million counter cyclical facility that has been arranged to support the export bonus scheme from externalization and or capital flight, which has continued to negatively affect the economy since dollarisation in 2009 and that has become more acute since January last year. The issuance of bond notes has a self control mechanism in that when there are no exports, there will be no issuance of new bond notes. The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill seeks to augment the legal framework for the implementation of the above policy measure. The amendment is necessary in view of the fact that due to the urgency of the matter, amendments have been made to the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act in terms of Temporary Measures Amendment of Reserve Bank Act and Issue of Bond Notes Regulations 2016. These amendments are only valid for a period of six months.
Key Provisions of the Bill
I will now outline the key provisions of the Reserve Bank of
Zimbabwe Amendment Bill as follows:
Clause 2, defines certain terms, key of which is the definition of a bond note.
Clause 3, will insert in the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act a new section enabling the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to prescribe by notice in a statutory instrument that a tender of payment of bond notes and coins issued by the Reserve Bank are exchangeable at par value with any specified currency other than Zimbabwean currency, prescribed as legal tender for the purposes of Section 44A of the Act. We also prescribed that bond notes shall be legal tender in all transactions in Zimbabwe to the same extent as that prescribed currency. Clause 4, we re-enact the provision of the issuance of bond notes temporarily enacted under the Presidential Powers Temporary Measures – Amendment of Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act and Issue of Bond
Notes Regulations, 2016. This clause will also validate the issuance of bond coins in circulation before that time. Mr. President, it is now my pleasure to move that the Bill be read a second time.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: First, I must admit that I am not a
fundi in the area that the Minister has covered, therefore, I will seek a bit of clarification. My first bit of clarification is, in today’s economy, is it possible to fix a rate and say this currency is equal to that and is it sustainable? Secondly, my concern goes to the delays. Early in the past year, we got to know about the need to introduce bond notes but it did not happen until it was legally overtaken by the temporary measures. I do not understand the delay that necessitated the temporary measures instead of proper legislation. Thirdly, you have clarified that the bond notes are going to co-relate to the volume of exports. What is the frequency of the review of the issuance of those bond notes? Lastly, I have heard that the diaspora would be keen to invest in Zimbabwe but they want something in exchange. The one thing that they are requesting is the broad right to vote. How are we tackling that?
*HON. SEN MASHAVAKURE: I have heard what the Minister
said. He wants the country to have foreign currency but we already have foreign currency because we are already using multiple currency basket which includes the Rand, US$, Yen and other currencies. I did not understand what he said. Is there a programme to encourage people to have a culture of saving through the banking system because there is the practice where people have their own home made banks and even keep their money in their socks. Will there be a programme that will encourage people to have savings and are they going to eliminate the dangers that people face in depositing their money where they pay charges to banks for running the account? Are we going to have a situation where people are going to be earning interest on savings that are deposited with the banks? If that were to be done, I believe it would be good for us and we can urge our people to have confidence in banks. Currently, a lot of people are using mobile money so banks should embrace methods that encourage people to save.
We are using US$ and there are lots of countries the world over that keep other people’s money through externalization. It can be externalized to countries like Panama and Bahamas who are in the habit of giving people tax havens. So they keep these monies in secrecy and give them lucrative interests. We want to move away from the issue of Panama papers to our own Zimbabwe papers so that we safeguard other people’s savings. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN CHIEF. CHARUMBIRA: I rise to support this Bill
which was brought by the Minister. It is carrying a subject which has been debated by people from all walks of life because it touches on their livelihoods. I am aware that when the issue of bond notes was first mooted, there were lots of speculations, guess work and gossip around this thing. In all honesty, this being a House of Hon. Members who represent the public, I think the truth should be told that the sentiments out there are that the introduction of the bond notes was very helpful. It would have been different if this Bill had been brought before the introduction of the bond notes because then we would be guessing and speculating as to whether it would work. Now, the public is asking if you can introduce more high denomination bond notes because the volume of the $2 has become too much. Now it is not about whether the bond note should be embraced. It has been well embraced already. The issue is that we are not moving too fast but as you say that you want to anchor it to the export volumes – of course you have a good explanation. However, the denominations probably, you would move from $2 now to much bigger notes so that we do not have to carry US$200 in a big box. I want to commend your Ministry and the Reserve Bank that you have been very creative. The problem of Africa that makes us not to develop is that we want to copy – saying zvakamboitwa kupi, ahh zvimwe totangawo tiriisuwo. Kufungawo kwema Zimbabeans kuti bond note rinoshanda ndokuti tifambire mberi. The doubts that we are trying to assist you in the public is that people still ask about the par value that is this currency and the bond notes the same? So, we always tell them it shall be like that forever. So, do not go back on that one and we want you to continue like that. Others ask whether the bond notes will buy in other countries and we have educated them that there is no local currency that can be used in other countries except the three international currencies. Even the South African rand, if you go to another country like Egypt or Europe, you have to look for foreign currency because it cannot be used. So, if the bond note does not buy
in Botswana, it is normal, that is the economics of the nations – local currency can never buy outside.
Hon. Minister, please keep educating the public about the cashless economy. The long queues in the banks are not necessary if we fully embrace the cashless economy. In Europe where we normally travel on business trips, you want to pay your bills and you have United States dollars from Zimbabwe or the Euros, they will ask you to use a bank card. They do not want cash transactions, so we should also move in that direction. There are no queues there for cash because they do not use cash anywhere, so let us also embrace that route.
Lastly, we are embracing cashless economy in various forms but if the RTGS system can be expedited especially between two different banks, for it to process money. The three days waiting period is just too much. It should work in such a way that at least within 24 hours, money can reflect in the other account. So, if we can improve on the RTGS system, this will cut the queues we are seeing in the banks.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity. Unfortunately some of my points have been said.
However, I will dwell on the issue of bank limits. Yes, I know we are supposed to use the plastic money but there are certain things, even if you go to other countries, you find that you have to pay those things using cash because the plastic cannot cover everything. The limit which we are given to withdraw is too little. When I am travelling, I will go to the bank and there are no banks in the rural areas because I would not have been allowed to take reasonable amounts to take with me and that sometimes leads to the queues.
The other thing I think is wasting time on the queues is taking time for economic development when people are in these queues and they are going to be given a limit so that they come back again tomorrow, this will deter economic development because these people need to get their money and go. Even the money from outside which we are given by our children which we are supposed to collect from the banks, there are still queues or you are told there is no cash today come tomorrow. Can this be expedited so that when I am going to collect my money from my children, I know there is going to be that percentage which is extra; but going there three times is not right. Can that money be available when we want it?
These queues also affect the aged. It is very bad for the old people to keep on going back and told you can get so much and come back again tomorrow. So, I am urging the relevant authorities to allow the aged to collect their pensions and monies from Diaspora once rather than being asked to come back over and over again. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. Hon.
Minister, an incentive is an incentive, it remains like that. My question is, what guarantees do we have that the export promotion will take place when you are going to issue the 5%.
Secondly, are there any sectors that have already shown signs of willingness to export? If you can please clarify on that?
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Thank you Mr. President, I just want
to get clarity from the Minister. First of all, I would like to say happy New Year Hon. Minister. The bond notes, they are being called the
Patrick and John (PJ) paper. When you withdraw the bond notes in a bank, you write your withdrawal slip as if you are withdrawing US dollars, that is not reality. They must be withdrawn as the bond notes. Where I live, with people that I had conversation with over the bond notes, they still do not understand. Somebody gave an example like this one, which I am so excited to give to you, because I promised that I would do that. Somebody said equating the bond note and the US dollars is like putting a 300 ml bottle full of coca cola and a 300 ml bottle full of water, this one who picks water will say; drink as if you are drinking coke when you know that the properties in the two liquids are not the same. This is reality Hon. Minister. I also want to understand that if I happen to sell a house here in Zimbabwe and I am paid in the bond notes, if I have a visa card and go outside the country, can my bank give that money to me in the strong currency? I would like to be enlightened on that. When we talk about people who were shipping a lot of cash outside the country hence the banks are limiting the withdrawals, who exactly was shipping this money? Is it not the Executive which was shipping all this money outside because the ordinary people do not have money? If you are paid $300.00 a month what do you ship that can
affect the performance of the country, you have nothing to ship. The use of cashless money must not be fast tracked on people Hon. Minister; they have to take it on their stride because if you force them they will choke. So, you should have means and ways and policies that will allow that the people will take it bit by bit because if you want us to choke now, where was Zimbabwe when everybody was doing cashless? I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to thank the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for a good Bill he has brought. In addition to what Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira has said that the currencies that are used worldwide are three, the United States Dollar, the Euro and the Pound. As Zimbabweans very few of us have problems because if you deny your totem and you want to take another person’s totem you do have a serious problem. If we do not encourage our own currency then we have a problem. As I grew up I met such problems in Zambia and the Zambian kwacha it had become worthless because it had lost its value and the citizens did not change it.
The Senesene from Senegal would tear off the kwacha and flash them in a toilet as they leave that country so that the country could not have its own currency. The same happened to the Malawian kwacha when it lost its value, the Malawians did not ditch their currency or change its own currency. The rand has a turbulent movement in terms of its strengths, at times it firms and weakens but they have not done away with the rand because they are a few who are into cross boarder trading. We want to move around with huge sums of money. The ordinary people in
Zimbabwe want more bond notes. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank Mr. President. I second the
Minister’s Bill. I want to talk about shops. I am saying that shop owners should be urged to bank their daily takings. They have a problem that they bank the bond notes and remain with US$, what is Government policy on that issue. There is a problem that we observed that if you try to buy flower using the bond notes you will pay a higher price, if you use a US$ it is less. May that normally be corrected and we want to find out what the policy says. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to commend the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for bringing up this RBZ Amendment Bill. I think it was long overdue that Zimbabwe comes up with its own currency which circulates in this country. What was happening is that Zimbabwe was becoming a haven of criminals because nowhere in the world and I am very well travelled it does not matter in Asia, Europe or anywhere where it is so easy to access the US$ as it was in this country. This is the only country also where you could easily get US$100.00 notes. I lived in America when you go to an ATM in America you can hardly get those big bills but you just get $20, $10, $5. This will certainly help the economy and it will certainly somehow bring down the capital flight which is a serious problem in this country. Every business man was coming from wherever they come from coming to Zimbabwe, take the US$ and take it out. So, no matter how much US$ you were going to inject into the market, as long as they were US$ they were going to be mopped out and sent out the country which was not going to help the economy. We thank you Minister.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. First and
foremost, I would like to congratulate the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa. You are very important to us in this country. The issue of funding should not be your problem because you are one of those few hard working Ministers in the SADC region.
The problem of money that you have talked about, you saw it fit that the Zimbabwean people are now facing a cash shortage and you did not sit on your laurels. In collaboration with the RBZ Governor you came up with a solution and brought the bond notes. I would want to appear to be repeating as has been said by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira, that there has been a lot of things that the Zimbabwean citizenry has had to contend with. Others were for the issue of the bond notes while others were extremely against it. We failed to understand whether these were the brains of the Zimbabweans and were they made for developing this country. Upon the release of the bond notes all of us were happy and you have delayed in producing the $5 and $10 notes that you aid you were going to produce and people are quite happy. People are anticipating the arrival of the bond notes. Do not think that you are only person to have come across this scenario.
In Mozambique, our next door neighbor, as Hon. Sen. Machingaifa has said I was in Mozambique during that time. The meticals become useless but in Zimbabwe we have problems with the pen and paper because those that are degreed appear to know a lot but their intelligence is misdirected. Our education is useless we are not properly applying that. Mozambique said get out once their currency had lost value. They remained steadfast and used the meticals alongside other currencies. The good thing about the bond is that it cannot be externalized. We would hear from the media that people were burning the bond note or flashing it down the toilets but they are not going to achieve any victory. We are using bundles to go and buy using those bond notes. This has happened in other countries and eventually they emerged victorious and rich the promised land.
We stand behind you and we urge you to remain steadfast and produce the bond notes. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I want to thank Hon. Chinamasa because
you are hard working but at times you are asked to move mountains. A single man cannot move mountains. The issue Hon. Minister is that, have you observed that our bond note is now trading on the black market at a lower exchange rate. The use of money or the money market cannot be understood simply to mean that money is being taken out of the country but what is important is the rate of exchange of our currency compared to other currencies when we use it in our own country.
The question that begs an answer is that if it has been declared as a legal tender or currency for Zimbabwe, we need clarity. Is this Zimbabwe’s currency, so that we can then say Zimbabwean two dollar note (Z$2). Is it not possible to remove the word ‘bond’ because we want now to compare our Z$2 note with the Ghana $2 and two pula from Botswana so that we see its worthiness as compared to the meticals, kwacha, rand and other such currencies, so that we do not continuously refer to it as a bond note. What are we bonded for? That is that begs an answer from the Hon. Minister.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Mr. President.
I would like to first of all thank all Hon. Senators who have contributed to this debate. Let me say that from the outset, I am very pleased that the Zimbabweans embraced the use of bond notes – [HON SENATORS:
Hear, hear.] –
This was contrary to the propaganda that in fact was being launched against the issuance of bond notes. All those who were in the forefront of that propaganda were alleging to be speaking on behalf of the people. I am happy that as we discuss this Bill, the people have spoken. They have spoken by embracing the bond notes.
Senator Sibanda, let me say that when we were confronted with the problem, because it hit us so suddenly. The capital flight that happened was quite sudden and we realised that there had been a lot of mopping out of US dollars out of the country. The problem was exacerbated by the fact that the dominant currency then was the US dollar, almost occupying 95% of our transactions. As the US dollar was siphoned out of the Zimbabwean market, we therefore found ourselves suddenly that we had no medium of exchange because the US dollars was being used as and we still use it as legal tender.
Now, a medium of exchange must circulate if the economy is to remain functional. Where people decide to put that currency under the pillow or to take it out of the country, it means there is no longer any money to transact business; to sell tomatoes or do ordinary business. If you want to sell your car or cattle, you no longer have that currency. That in fact is the situation that confronted us. We then decided and zeroed in on the bond note, because the problem we are facing in Zimbabwe is one of confidence. Confidence because people are still in the mindset of what happened in 2008. That is the problem, otherwise if we were able to renew, in Government that confidence which existed before, we should have no problem in this economy. So, we had to accept the reality confronting us, that there was no confidence in the market; first to introduce our own currency, there is still no confidence but we are working very hard towards that goal.
Generally, once the correct fundamentals are in place, we will be able to do it. Some of the fundamentals are basically to do with increasing exports so that we can build reserves. Countries normally have three months or so for import cover in terms of reserves for themselves. We need to address the issue of trade deficit and productivity. Unless there is production you cannot have currency chasing too few goods. So, we need to work on a lot of those and we are already working on those.
These were the issues Mr. President were confronting us. When we announced, we deliberately allowed debate. I think, as Sen. Chief Charumbira has said, there has never been an issue as debated thoroughly as we did on the bond notes. It started from the word go when the Reserve Bank Governor announced it, around May 2016. It has been full throttle on the debate both in print, social and electronic media. As we listened to the views of the people coming out, we were also able to change our own initial concept. We were helped to evolve our own ideas so that we become firmer and clearer.
So, personally I am very grateful for the debate that has happened since May, 2016 because we have answers for everything. We anticipated every problem because of the debate that ensued. The issue you raised is to why the temporary measures. To be honest, for me it does not worry me what happened because temporary measures are still within the framework of the Constitution and the law. We can resort to that.
Another problem which I can say to you now, the moment we started putting orders to print the bond notes, we had our own people tracking me and the Governor. Wherever we went we were being followed and people were discouraged to cooperate with us. I know two or three companies which we had engaged to print the bond notes who declined because they were threatened through e-mails. They were threatened with strikes and so forth and they had to think about their own reputation, given the way the whole message was put together. So, all these things we had to basically take into account. Overally, I have no problem with the way things have progressed because we are now here. I am confident that this august House as has been expressed, will support this Bill so that we can have a permanent legislation to undertake it.
Also, let me say that right from the beginning, we think and I still strongly feel as a lawyer that the legal framework was in place for the issuance of bond notes, but because of the controversy surrounding the issue, I felt I should put myself on guard and bend over backwards to make sure that I reinforce the existing legal framework. So, this Bill is doing nothing more than reinforcing what is already there, so that we put it beyond any doubt that bond notes are a legal tender in Zimbabwe. So, Hon. Sen. Sibanda, I want you to understand that the path has not been straight, it has been a very complicated process. You ask, ‘Is it possible to fix the rate and is it sustainable?’ As you can see, everything is managed; we are not printing bond notes willy-nilly. No exports, no bond notes.
Basically, this is why we are matching the bond notes with the United States dollars because we know the value of our exports. Exports bring US$ or foreign currency into the market and therefore once we know the value, we then say 5%. We are not even matching to the full extent of the exports, we are saying 5%. So, that control mechanism makes it possible to maintain that 1:1 exchangeable rate with the US$. So, for as long as we are talking about bond notes, yes, I can say it is sustainable.
I need also to advise, Mr. President Sir, that we are moving away slowly but clearly from an over liberilised foreign exchange market to a managed one. What this means is, all exporters as they have always done, must export and do their documentation through the Central Bank. When they are paid, they acquit and from now onwards, we are going to allow those who are exporting a portion. Already, I think currently I may be mistaken there; currently I think it has been fixed at 50% which we allow the exporter to keep for use in purchasing raw materials and buying spares so that the activities of export are maintained, increased and intensified. The other 50% is used by the Reserve Bank for importation of fuel and other essential commodities to the market and which also cover those companies that are into import substitution but are not exporters - you know soap manufacturers and a host of other companies.
Essentially, I want this august House to understand that is the direction we are going to travel. Today it is bond notes, when the macro-economic fundamentals are right and I do not anticipate it to be soon, we will move to the next stage basically to our own currency - again depending with the confidence that is restored in the authorities. Another point I want to highlight Mr. President is that, the value of any currency is not supported by anything worldwide. It used to be backed by gold; people used to keep gold vaults to support the value of the currency but that was abandoned, I think 60 or so years ago. The value of a currency is confidence by the people in their own money. You withdraw that confidence and you do so at your peril then you will not have any medium of exchange.
I was challenged in the Lower House but it is no longer here sorry, if you look at the One United States dollar note (US$1), you will never find anywhere in the world dirty currency as the One United States dollar note that you find in Zimbabwe. For your information that US$1, dirty as it is, is not accepted anywhere; it is only accepted by
Zimbabweans. – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – Only by Zimbabweans as it has no value outside Zimbabwe. If you were to take it to the United States of America, they would take it, burn and destroy if they accept it. I am sure they will accept because it is theirs but outside there, it has no value. So, why is it that it has value here? Dirty and torn as it is? It is because you are putting unnecessary blind confidence in it and you refuse to put that confidence on something that we create ourselves. Alright, I can understand the history but we need not remain entrenched in the past and forget to work for the future. It is very important that we need to look into the future.
All that is necessary to give value to a currency is confidence which arises from discipline among those who run the Exchequer. Disciple not to print willy-nilly, wholesale without following; those who are into accounting know that certain formulas are used to say, when your economy is growing at this rate, you must have your money supply according to this formula. If that is followed, sometimes it can be exceeded but even the parameters for exceeding are also known because there is a danger zone and so on. If you do not exceed the danger zone, you will be fine. So for me, I believe that we are a disciplined lot and should be supported in the direction that we are taking. So the corerelationship with exports is very important as it is a control mechanism so that we do not over supply. This is why even now we are dripfeeding into the economy so that we do not have any situation, perception of inflation.
With respect to the frequency, I think you need to understand that the initial support to exporters did not take into account incremental production. We just accepted that you are into gold production, you exported gold; you are into tobacco production, you exported tobacco and we just said, how much did you export or how much did you produce? We based the incentive on that basis. Of course, as we grow another crop, other gold exports, we pay up to 5% because in some instances, it is two and a half percent. We are also proposing, Mr. President, we are still under active discussion, to pay the 5% incentive to cotton farmers starting with this crop that is in the ground.
On diaspora remittances, we have given those who receive diaspora remittances a 5% incentive so that we encourage your relatives in the diaspora to send this money through structured channels. If they do, we will pay the recipient here 5% and so on and we hope that it will go quite some way to enhance diaspora remittances.
With respect to whether we can give the vote to diasporans, those of you who were involved in the Constitution making process will remember that this was debated extensively and the conclusion was that as of to now, we do not give. Whether that will remain so is a matter for the future but currently, the Constitution and Electoral Law does not give them the right to vote.
Hon. Sen. Mashavakure, thank you very much. We will do what we can to encourage a culture of savings. Our biggest problem in the economy is that we have been using too much cash and what that means is that it is not in the banks. When there are no deposits in the banks, the banks have no money to lend to the productive sectors. So it is an issue that I believe needs to be taken up and we have already taken up. We already have strategies of financial inclusion. We encourage all those tobacco farmers to open up accounts and were paid through their banks in the last season – that encourages a culture of savings. We have also found that those who are side marketing and I hope that it serves as a warning, those who are side-marketing cannot be paid the incentive. The incentive will be paid through the account of that person who carried them and we are not to blame for that. I hope that those who have this habit of side marketing will stop it and will be encouraged basically to open their own accounts and to market their produce directly in their own names.
The issue that you raised, the Reserve Bank is actively pursuing this matter with the commercial banks; the issue about bank charges and not paying interest for savings. When we engaged them with respect to interest on savings and deposits, they said there are two types of deposits. There are what we call demand deposits where the depositor can withdraw at any moment. That money generally is of no use to the bank because they do not know when you are going to demand it. What they encourage are savings accounts. It could be a fixed deposit, you put it for six months or one year and they pay you interest. They also encourage basically that we make more and more of our deposits under that route. That is the money they can use for lending because they know they can lend it on a short term. For example, if it is a 12 month fixed deposit, they can lend it for nine months. After nine months, they have been repaid and can redeem your fixed deposits if you should want it after the 12 months.
You are urging us to be a Panama as a country so that we have the fame of having something like Panama Zimbabwe papers. I do not want to say anything negative about another country but I think we should all know; Switzerland used to be like that, maybe still is. They would encourage deposits from everywhere and no questions asked as a safe haven security. What this meant was that anyone who steals money anywhere in the world could take this money where they were encouraged to take it. By the way, that money does not earn interest. It could be $20 million or $30 million. You just deposit it there as a safe haven. No, we are not in that class and we should never follow that route.
Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira, thank you very much for supporting this Bill. You are quite right that the sentiments that we are getting from the public on the introduction of bond notes have been very positive. For that, we are perpetually grateful to the Zimbabwean Republic. You urge us to introduce more bond notes. It is only according to the control mechanism – no exports, no bond notes. We will not make the mistake of printing bond notes to meet Government expenditure. We will go the same way like we did in 2008 and I will not allow that to happen. Bond notes are only introduced and issued to encourage production, particularly to encourage exports.
Our major sources of foreign currency are exports, diaspora remittances, lines of credit, foreign direct investment that is equity and loans. Currently, we do not have much in the way of foreign direct investment worth talking about. Whatever financing of capital projects we are doing is through loan financing. Much of it is through EPC, meaning we are given a loan, for example through China Exim Bank and the conditions are, it does not come in as cash. They insist that we buy the equipment from China and that the contractor is from China. So, there is very little that comes mostly to source domestic materials like sand, concrete and so forth. As we speak, the issue is to do with exports; that is the major source of our foreign currency.
With respect to denominations, yes we will not print any $100 bond notes. I think the maximum that we will go, subject to further consultations maybe $20. Basically, when we had the $100 here, it made it easier for people to mop out our money and they will take millions of dollars in just a suitcase through the airport, which will not have been the case if there were US$1 or US$20. We have learnt that lesson and I am happy to say that in other countries, they are also going the same route that they will not encourage $100 notes. So, the $5 bond notes, I think are coming in March – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
I thank you for commending us for being innovative. I feel so proud that we have been able to overcome this. When we interact with foreign financial institutions, to be honest we had endless arguments with the IMF, World Bank, et cetera to say “hazviite” and so on. They were also acting under pressure from our own people. We said
Zimbabwe is in a unique situation, it is a country under sanctions and we do not have our own currency. We are using other people’s currency which has now been mopped out. We cannot afford to stay in a situation where we have no medium of exchange. Over time, they have now come to understand that and the bank which has helped us basically says, do you know we have used Zimbabwe to create new products which they are now applying to other countries. In fact, they mentioned some three or four things that we have done together which had never been done anywhere else which worked and they are now applying to other countries. Of course, we cannot claim any patent on that.
Hon. Sen. Charumbira answered well the question that bond notes will not buy outside Zimbabwe. You rightly pointed out that there are very few currencies which are able to buy outside their countries. It is the United States which is global to a greater extent, the British pound and Euro to a limited extent. We tried it here before. If someone produced British pound here, no one would accept it. That of course is not the same thing with the US dollar, so the bond notes will not buy outside Zimbabwe. This is why it is our mechanism to stop capital flight and to have a medium of exchange circulating.
I am delighted that bond notes have started to be deposited back into the banking system, suggesting that the bond notes are now circulating. Anything that is taken away from circulation, it means you are going to kill the economy and suggest a serious problem. So, bond notes have started to be deposited and I am very happy that they are now a clear case that they are circulating. Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira for that and we will continue to educate people on using plastic money and to be honest, the upsurge in the usage of plastic money has even baffled us. It has been so successful to a point where I marveled at someone selling mangoes and mazhanje along the Domboshava road, he had a swiping machine so that no one would be prejudiced in buying. I clearly marveled at the innovativeness. It showed me that there is now greater acceptance of the usage of plastic money. That is the way to go because in any country, the rule of thumb is that if you have got deposits; in this country our bank deposits are $6.5 billion. So the rule of thumb is you cannot print $6.5 billion in cash but you print between 5% and 10% relative to the bank deposits. So we are going to print the bond notes up to $200 million. Ideally, like in the
United States, they work on a percentage of 10% that will move as cash. This is to do petty transactions but as you all know, the USA is a bigger country with a larger population. I take your comment and I will refer this matter Senator Chief Charumbira of expediting the RTGS system so that we cut the waiting period.
Senator Khumalo raised the issue of queues which we are working on but I want you to understand first that the queues are rising from a resistance to use plastic money, because if you have a bank account, you have easy access to plastic money. This will make your life a lot easier instead of spending a day outside an ATM machine. Generally, people use cash when they want to do things which are not above board. Clearly plastic money helps to kill any abuse or corruption because it leaves a trail. So, those who are resorting to cash want to take a bag to pay someone in cash. Therefore, we need to understand and discourage cash transactions. Plastic money is one way to fight corruption and we should use that. I agree that the more time people stand in queues retards economic development and it means you are not economically active. However, we are doing a study to understand who the people are that are always in the queues. It will just be a study to find out where they are coming from, what exactly is happening and so on. It may throw up very interesting results which we may use either to improve our systems or otherwise.
Diaspora remittances – I want you to understand Senator Khumalo and the august House that when someone wires a payment to you which could be $200, there is no physical cash to that. If $10 million is wired to Barclays Bank in Zimbabwe there is no physical cash. The Reserve
Bank must go to the Federal Reserve to buy the cash using money in the NOSTRO accounts to buy the US$, which again is a cost that we can ill afford.
Senator Chimhini, I think I have already answered your question. When we started, there was just the base and we want to encourage people to continue producing for exports using the bonds notes 5% as an incentive. That is what we are doing and I must say that those who have benefited under the scheme have been encouraged to go and produce more. That is what I discovered in the Tobacco and Gold sectors. We have been able to enhance our gold production though we fell short of the target by one tone. We are still considering and discussing how best to incentivize more gold production. The idea is that we hope to build from the gold some reserves which we hope in future we can use to anchor the value of our own currency. The bond note is not the
Zimbabwean currency. These bonds notes are backed by a facility from Afrexim Bank. When we do have our own currency, we will not have anything like a facility. So by that time, I wish we will have some gold and diamond reserves.
Senator Mlotshwa, the fact that when you deposit your bond notes and your US$, they are deposited on the same slip because they are interchangeable. When you withdraw, sometimes you are given bond notes and at times US$. The system is working very well, so what is the problem. So far we do not see any problem. The problem will only arise where you insist – like I thought your mind was going – that we separate the bond and the US$ suggesting the bond is our currency. Bond notes are in the basket of foreign currencies and at par in terms of value with the US$. We have decided to do so because the dominant foreign currency here, apart from the bond notes is the US$. In fact, the South African Rand is not seen anywhere here, not because we said we do not want it but the people rejected it completely. We even tried through the Governor to give directives that where any Government services charge fees and are tendered for payment in rand, pound or euro they should accept but there has been no evidence of much that has taken place. This means that the people are not holding Rands anymore. So, the currencies that we are seriously talking about are the US$ and the bond note which are interchangeable. You raised an issue Senator Mlotshwa which we are looking into because part of the capital flight that happened in this country was through sale of houses. The seller would insist on being paid in cash – can you imagine $300,000 in cash. The person then took the money to go and buy a house in South Africa yet that was our money. That house is a Zimbabwean house, why is that money now going outside and not benefiting Zimbabwe. So, those are issues we are now pursuing. We want basically receipts from house sells, our Zimbabwean money to pay taxes here. Now, what you are talking about is capital flight and that is how some of the money was going abroad, people then say pay me outside. Even if the money is coming from outside, you sell someone to a Zimbabwean who is abroad in the United States, then say do not worry to send the money here, deposit it in my account in South Africa or in UK. That is wrong, that money should come here, it is our money.
No, I do not agree with you Senator Mlotshwa that plastic money programme should not be fast tracked. As I mentioned, I do not understand when you say people will be choked. It will make my life easier. If there is a mental resistance in the Hon. Senator, please unblock that resistance, you will be surprised with how much time you will have on your hands without going to the bank. Some of the transactions, you can actually do them on your cell phone. You can transfer from one bank to another and it is already happening, it will make your life a lot easier. Just accept the change. I know it is difficult to accept change but this type of change, please accept it, it will be easy for you.
Senator Machingaifa, thank you very much for the comment you made especially the issue about people refusing their totem and taking other people’s totem, I liked it. That is exactly what I think
Zimbabweans have been doing. They do not appreciate the good that is in their own country. They look at the very negative side of life. If you look at the social media; you do not get as negative a social media as we have in Zimbabwe, you do not get that in any other country which have worse problems than ourselves. It was suggested that maybe it is education, so if it so, then it is wrong education that we have imparted on our people clearly. What people forget is that when you are negative about your country and yourself, it means you have no confidence in yourself. You cannot build a country with people who lack self confidence. They do not believe they can do anything in the world. So, you end up basically destroying your own self esteem which is very important. So I liked that bit about people refusing their totem. The examples you gave about Zambian kwacha, Malawian kwacha, Mozambique, they went through hell worse than we did but they were able to hang on to their own currency. The mistake we made is basically it happened in the budget that I presented in January 2009. I had anticipated our Zimbabwean dollar to run parallel with the US dollar. In fact the kombis continued to use the Zimbabwean notes until they ran out of those notes, we should have continued with that route.
Anyway because of the changes that took place, it was not possible to maintain, there was a change of guard at the Treasury and we are in a completely different situation now. Let me say to Senator Machingaifa that we will only print more bond notes in sync with exports, no exports no bond notes. We will not print bond notes to support expenditure.
Senator Murwira, thank you very much with respect to the encouragement that we should give to shops to bank their sells. We will certainly continue to do that. Thank you very much for the support. Senator Mutsvangwa, I also thank you very much for the support, particularly when you are warning us against printing any $100 bond notes. We will certainly heed that advice and we will not do it. Even as we now import, we import US dollars, like I said, when people wire, whether through Diaspora remittances or they sent money here, they do not send physical cash, we have to import. So, we obviously have to import up to denominations of US$20.00. The only problem of course is that the smaller the denominations, the more expensive it is to transport the currency to Zimbabwe.
Senator Mawire, thank you very much and I acknowledge that the negative publicity does not do our country any good. Senator Marava, I have said this, you are worrying about bond note trading at inferior rate on black market. I have said this; anyone who is doing that wants to externalize funds, clearly. So, they are being very criminal. However, as of now because of the drip feeding of the bond notes, there is not much trading, we have been monitoring. Obviously, you are not able to cover every eventuality, people who want to be mischievous will do so. Senator Marava, we will not remove the word bond from the bond notes because they are a unique currency. They are backed by Afro Exim Bank export incentive facility. They are not a Zimbabwean currency. When we introduce a Zimbabwean currency we will tell you and in fact we will get to a point where you will demand the introduction of your own currency because production would have gone up. Already, if you look at this season and God has so for been smiling on us. If the crop situation remains as is, we are looking for a very good agricultural season. More production of maize, cotton, in other words we are looking for increased growth, better growth than I perhaps anticipated in my budget in the agricultural sector.
We are now working on gold, we have been working on it and we are discussing further incentives to see how we can basically push up gold production. We are also looking at diamonds. When I presented my first Budget in 2014 as substantive Minister, I had anticipated 13 million karats, throughout. Since then, and I hardly have got more than three million. So, Hon. Minister Chidhakwa is working very hard, in fact he is devoting and focusing his attention on how to restart production of diamonds. What has been hindering has been the litigation by two of the companies and we have now engaged them with a view to try to reach an amicable understanding so that we can fulfill the promise and the plan of Government that Government only should be involved in diamond mining. So, when that production goes up, when real jobs are being created, that will increase revenues and that will correct a lot of the macroeconomic fundamentals. Already, when we look at what Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016 has done, it has sparred local production but there are challenges which are shortages of foreign currency to source raw materials and we think that it is a teething problem during this transition and that we should be able to sort out that problem sooner rather than later.
Mr. President, I once again thank the Hon. Senators for their contributions and always for their support. I therefore, move that the
Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill [H.B. 12, 2016] be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
RESERVE BANK OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 12,
2016]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 4 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
RESERVE BANK OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 12,
2016]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, I thank
Hon. Senators for their support and I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY POLITICAL
PARTIES
Fifth order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 2nd February, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State
of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 2nd February, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 2nd February, 2017.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 68TH SESSION OF
EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY
UNION
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on the Report of the Delegation to the 68th Session of the Executive Committee of the
African Parliamentary Union.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. GOTO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 2nd February, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA seconded by HON. SEN. MARAVA, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Four
Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 2nd February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. SHIRI: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, Hon. Eng. Matangaidze. May the Minister update this House on the latest development on the disability policy and the appointment of the Director of Disability in the Ministry? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Madam President. I am happy to inform the House that significant progress has been made in this regard. We are now at the stage of drafting the principles; we are formulating the principles so that we take them to Cabinet following the due process. On the second position the Hon. Senator spoke about, we have applied to the Public Service Commission for the position of Director in the Ministry. I can tell you that deliberately, our intention is to have a person probably living with a disability to fill in the position. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. I am
delighted to see the Minister of Energy and Power Development. We are happy that load shedding is a thing of the past but we are worried that those who are generating electricity want to increase the tariffs for them to get more revenue inflows. We understand that the Ministry or Government is denying them. May we be assured of sustained supply of electricity in the foreseeable future in the absence of this pending increament?
My second question is …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Is it second
question or third question?
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Sorry.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I am not stopping
you from debating. I am just saying your numbering “hazvisi kunyatsowirirana.”
*HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I asked what the Government is doing to ensure that those who are generating electricity are able to get money from the consumers so that we have sustainable supply of electricity. My other question is, what is the relationship between REA and ZESA? It seems there is duplication of roles because electricity is put in rural areas and they do not complete the job. They expect the other department to do it. So, we want clarification on the matter. Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): Madam President, I
want to thank Hon. Sen. Mumvuri for the question that he posed. Some years ago, ZESA which is responsible for supplying electricity was restructured. It now has four companies namely; ZESA Holdings, Zent, the one that manufactures transformers, ZPC responsible for power generation, and ZETDC which is responsible for distributing electricity and also gives the price for electricity and Powertel for communication.
The ZETDC made an application for tariffs to be increased. They applied to Zimbabwe Energy Regulatory Authority (ZERA). After their tariff was considered, it was denied. Indeed, they had explained that they had a challenge in terms of the revenue that they collected and wanted it increased. ZERA denied them citing that other measures could be adopted.
When we also considered it, we realised that the tariffs were low and it would be good for them to increase but those who are responsible for regulation said that when it comes to ease of doing business, it would be difficult for businesses as well as domestic consumers. Indeed, there is a point that it is better to have expensive power than not to have it at all. So, this is an issue that we are seized with and we want to balance the revenue that we get from ZESA and ensure that there is a constant supply of electricity because there is nothing for free. We are working on the issue with the respective parastatals.
Madam President, I will go on to the last question. The Hon. Member asked about the duties of REA and ZESA and their differences because at times they seem to duplicate duties. Let me say in 2002, Parliament passed what is known as the REA Act. It was set to ensure that electricity is made available in rural areas. It was realised that ZESA was only concentrating in urban areas. That is why REA was established. When REA was established, they said that 6% of what you pay for electricity would be used to fund the rural electrification project. I am sure you are all aware that 6% is deducted when you pay your bills and goes to REA.
The Government should also allocate money through the National Budget to REA. So far we raise about $30 million per year. The money is divided among the eight provinces and not ten. It is equally distributed and is used in the eight provinces. Harare and Bulawayo are metropolitan provinces and are excluded by the REA Act. On the ground, REA brings electricity right up to the household level. REA does not generate electricity. ZESA takes over and is responsible for installing the meter, and ensuring that you have the supply of electricity in your home and they begin to charge you. What REA does is that it only ensures that electricity is available in rural areas.
From the time REA started, it has so far electrified institutions such as schools, clinics and public buildings and more than 8 500 institutions have been electrified to date. What the Government has decided that REA should now ensure that they go as far as installing in the households. Most houses do not have electricity. I went to Mberengwa at one time to officiate the installation of electricity to 100 households by REA. The chief of that area said what the President is doing is amazing because the area is now full of ghosts, meaning there is so much electricity now. Madam President, I think I have explained the differences and demarcated the areas of operation between REA and ZESA. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services. May you explain fully on the issue of media? Is it policy that was put by your Ministry, the Speaker or the President of Senate because the National Assembly and Senate are different? We do not see coverage of the Senate on ZTV. We expect to be covered and be visible in this august House because the people who elected us need to see us debating. We only see the National Assembly on ZTV. Does this mean that we are not as powerful as the National Assembly or we are not representing the people. Thank you Madam President.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
want to thank the Hon Member for the question. I thought I could use any language because I am not so fluent in English, which is not my mother tongue but I will try. It is not in the statutes of this country that this House should not be covered by media at all. I am also worried because I would also like to appear on television. May the Hon. Members in this distinguished House allow me to take this matter further? When I came in, I thought I saw a lady with a camera coming here so I am equally surprised that our House is not receiving due attention, which we are entitled to as legislators. So, I will definitely take it up with the Hon. Minister and the CEO of ZBC, Mr. Mavhura. HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Seeing that there is so much rain and
the poor people in the rural areas are having their houses washed away by floods, what has the Ministry done in preparation to save these people from hunger and give them relief. This is in spite of the drought relief which was already there because this is a different situation. Is Government prepared to give these people relief?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): This issue does not fall under our purview but falls under the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. They are the ones who work on disaster interventions. However, if there are specific examples where people have become vulnerable due to those disasters, the initial point of intervention will be from the Ministry of Public Works. They are the ones on disaster mitigation. Thereafter, should the vulnerability levels persist, we intervene and I am happy to say that when we assess people that are vulnerable, it is an on-going exercise. It is not like we have a cut-off point to say the people we have on our registers are the only people we can reach out to. Even at any one point, the social welfare officers in those particular areas will ring alarm bells and tell us that there is need for intervention. If there are specific examples that you think need our urgent intervention, by all means, let us know and we will adequately respond.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question goes to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. During our break, I found out that in Zvishavane there are three coordinators that sign from each school. I tried to find out how many Government schools we have and they are about 5,000. Their only job is to sign and go back home. I want to understand from you what their job description is and who supervises them, considering the ballooning wage bill which is taking over 90% of the national revenue.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): The question is relating to a particular area,
Zvishavane. With the Hon. Senator’s indulgence, can I have that question in writing so that I can find out the specific details in relation to that area she is alluding to?
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Actually, this information is applicable throughout the country.
HON. ENG MATANGAIDZE: My request will still be the same Madam President, so that I can respond to the House in detail in that regard. I would not want to give you a wish-wash answer but I want to find out all the details before I come back with the response.
HON. SEN MLOTSHWA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Why do you as a Ministry still maintain in many missions, ambassadors instead of lower level diplomats when the country can ill afford to pay salaries for so many missions, which is an embarrassment to any already embarrassing Zimbabwe financial situation?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FORIGN AFFAIRS (HON.
MBWEMBWE): The issue of ambassadors throughout the world is a prerogative of His Excellency the President. Let me also say that the reason why we maintain ambassadors is that in spite of the economic challenges that we have, we still need to be able to relate to the rest of the world. Their presence is actually in fulfillment of our national Constitution Chapter 2 that we must have a presence to promote and protect the interests of Zimbabwe. So, the Ministry has of course done everything possible to try and streamline and downsize the structures at the Embassies. However, at the end of the day His Excellency has the prerogative to determine where we need an ambassador or where we need a charge d’affaires. Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Hon. Minister, I want to understand
that by so saying you mean that the lower level diplomats cannot perform the duties necessary to promote the country in the globe.
HON. MBWEMBWE: The reason why we have structures at
Embassies and every organisation is because different levels have capacities and competencies to be able to deal with certain level of functions. The same applies to the issues of our embassies. Again it depends on what the interest is that we are actually pursuing in that particular part of the world or region. This will determine the level to which we must then be able to lift our embassy. It will then determine whether they will need an ambassador or a charged d’affaires or maybe just a consular. It is determined by the function that has to be carried out and our interest that we have to pursue. The level, again, depends on whether its economic interest or political interest, all those factors help us to determine what level of position we should have at the embassy.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Madam President.
My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service and Social Welfare, Hon. Matangaidze. Minister, you are the one who represents the majority of the workers; what does the Government policy say; we have heard in the media that there are workers who are known as sex workers. In Zimbabwe do we have commercial sex workers, if so, the levies that are paid to the Aids levy and NSSA, do they also contribute towards those funds?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE):
Government policy does not allow commercial sex work. So, it is illegal. Considering that it is illegal, it means it is not allowed, it is an imprisonable offence. So, we cannot collect taxes on illegal practices. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Foreign Affairs. It is an open secret that Zimbabwe is
funded by countries like EU particularly in terms of election. What is Government policy regarding the selection of election observers. In the past, we have had situations where they have been barred or banned and yet we receive funding from them towards election processes.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON.
MBWEMBWE): Thank you very much Madam President. I will defer that question to the Minister of Home Affairs.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR.
CHOMBO): Could the Hon. Member repeat the question.
HON. SEN. CHMHINI: I thought the question was directed to Foreign Affairs because they do accreditation for observers. The question is Zimbabwe receives funding from a group of countries like the E.U in terms of some processes of an election process. When it comes to election accreditation or observation, EU has been barred in the past from sending its observers. What is Government policy in the selection of the International observers?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR.
CHOMBO): The Hon. Senator wishes to understand or to know the criteria that is used in inviting NGO’s and other individuals, bodies or organisations to come into our country with the intention to observe the election process. I am not sure which other organisation he meant in particular but this country, since independence, has always invited all its neighbours first to come and be the Election Observers to learn from each other and to share. We have invited SADC, the African Union to come and be observers but we have not extended the invitation to countries that have imposed sanctions on us. It will be folly, unwise to say you have imposed sanctions on me, you do not want to see me, my children but I am so anxious to have you come and see my children. So, we have imposed sanctions to invite those who have relations with us.
You do not invite those you do not have relations with.
Furthermore, when certain countries bend together, put money together, create bogus organisations and put them in these countries masquerading as NGO’s in order to effect a regime change, we do not invite them. We should even reverse the invitation of those bodies that are here to go back to their countries because they are here for no good, to effect a regime change and this we should not accept. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I asked why then do we receive funds from those countries? At the moment we have an election process and we know part of the funding is coming from those countries and we accept their funds. Why do we accept funds when we end up saying these people are fighting us they have put sanctions but we accept their funds. Can we get answer on that one?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR.
CHOMBO): Madam President, this country has bilateral relations with many countries. We accept gifts or donations from those who are charitably disposed to give us and the gifts should not come with preconditions that I want to come and observe elections, no? It does not mean that if I have lunch with you I am obligated to invite you to my son’s wedding, no? That argument does not follow but you are also being diplomatic. Tell us clearly which organisations then we will tell you clearly what the issues are. Thank you Madam President. HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Minister of Foreign Affairs in relation to international organizations, Zimbabwe’s quota. Is he in a position to tell us if all our quotas are filled and if so to what level? Secondly, we notice that we do not seem to take an active role in assisting our people to get into those organisation because there is big money. If I may put it in context taxation at the level of P2 or P4 only if I work for the UN I know I have been there my tax is $2 000 to $3 000 and that goes to
Zimbabwe’s assist contribution. So, other countries make sure that they facilitate their citizens to get jobs there because that money comes back to the Zimbabwe Government as Zimbabwe’s contribution to the UN and it is income. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON.
MBWEMBWE): Thank you very much Madam President. I thank the Hon. Sen. a lot for that question. Zimbabwe is always assisting and facilitating Zimbabwean citizens to occupy positions in international organisations right across the board from the United Nations, the AU and regional organisations. We have Zimbabweans present with the assistance of the Government of Zimbabwe and I can give the latest example of course we did not succeed at the latest AU Session where we are trying to put and assist Zimbabwean citizens to occupy positions at AU as commissioners. So, we have Zimbabweans across the board and we dominate in COMESA we have a lot of Zimbabweans in the SADC region and in the UN. Thank you.
HON. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. Could I ask
the Deputy Minister of Lands and Resettlement to explain to us the policy with regard to consultation with traditional prior to the resettlement of people especially on the prioritisation of locals before people can come in.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam
President. Thank you to the Hon. who asked a very important question. I think Ministry of Lands have structures which involve leadership. So the leadership is involved in the distribution of land even as we are working together. Since we have district committees and provincial lands committees, those committees also involve the chiefs so that they can deal with the issue of lands. So, we are working with them. –[HON.
SENATORS: Hear , hear.]-
HON. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. I am raising
this issue Minister, because I have received complaints and I will give you an example for further research. That in Umzingwane there is resettlement of people which is unknown to the local leadership and everybody is wondering where it came from. So, is that policy adequately supervised?
HON. CHIKWAMA: It is the problem of the provincial leadership which is not informing the locals that there is resettlement. If those people do not inform the locals, the Ministry cannot verify whether the schedules coming from the district or province were done in consultation with those involved. So, if you have a problem you can put it in writing, giving us a particular area where that thing has happened. I thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear,hear.]-
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President.
My question goes to the Minister of Public Service Labour and Social
Services. Parliament and Government of Zimbabwe ratified the UN
Conventions on the rights of persons with disability in 2013. Are we likely to see the domestication of this Convention in the life of this
Parliament? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I thank
the Hon .Senator for that question. The work we are currently running through Madam President where we had an outreach to come up with a new Disabilities Act is specifically to address those concerns to ensure that our laws are in sync with the conventions that we have ratified. So, as I alluded to you earlier on that we are now at a stage where we are drafting the principles for this new Act. That surely will be communicated and if there are issues that need to be added on from the principles that we will have put on we will by all means take them on board so that the principles are ready for Cabinet. You know the process after Cabinet approval and we will be allowed to do the Bill. It will again come through this Parliament and at every point we will have an opportunity to check through that indeed we are complying with the conventions and international protocols that we have acceded to. I thank you.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister Foreign Affairs. Minister can you explain why MPs in this country …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, he
requested that any questions posed to him be in English, he does not understand Ndebele. I know you can speak English.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Minister, we have a rumour that Members of Parliament were asking for red passport and the President of this country agreed to give us red passport …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, Hon.
Senator. You cannot pose questions on rumour. We want to pose questions on facts please.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Let me rephrase it. I understand the Speaker of the House of Assembly assured us that we were going to be given red diplomatic passport and we were told that the President of this country agreed to give us – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] - Can you protect me Madam President. I understand the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is the one which is refusing to give us diplomatic passports. Why is it that the Ministry is not giving us diplomatic passports, like what is happening in neighbouring countries where Members of Parliament have diplomatic passports. What is going on with the Ministry? Can you please explain to us so that from today we will know who is refusing.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON.
MBWEMBWE): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question on diplomatic passports. I think the matter keeps coming up in many forums but the decision on who gets or who does not get a diplomatic passport rests with His Excellency, the President. The Ministry cannot take this decision. I think on this matter, the position with regards to Members of Parliament would be communicated back to Parliament through the Speaker of Parliament because from previous discussions, the Speaker took it upon himself to discuss the matter with His Excellency and the Minister of Foreign
Affairs. Thank you.
HON. SEN. BUKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Chikwama. What measures have you put in place to expedite the issuance of 99 Year Leases to the A2 farmers?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam
President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking this very important question. There are some measures which we are putting in place in our Ministry with regards to 99 Year Leases.
We used to expect someone to make some developments on the farm in order to get the 99 Year Lease. Now, due….
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: On a point of order. Could the
Minister speak to the microphone, so that we hear the response?
HON. CHIKWAMA: Due to the fact that the 99 Year Lease is now a bankable document which enables a farmer to borrow money so that he or she can develop on the farm, we are now allowing all those who have A2 farms to make applications so that we can process and have the surveyor to survey the plots. It is no longer the issue of making plans or developments. We now do it speedily and fast.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services. Minister we thank you for the information areas that are being established in our areas. I want to be enlightened on whether there is something being done in terms of covering the all the people that are in our communities to access ICT.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. MLAMBO): I request to respond in English because you will end up enjoying Ndau and some of the words that are in Ndau you will not understand.
I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. I think the question is trying to address disability issues in the use of information technology. Let me first refer to the United Nations General Assembly
Resolution (2015) that created 17 sustainable targets which must be met.
One of them addresses the issue of disabilities in the use and adoption of ICT tools. It is a requirement that whatever we do, we must realise that there are people with disabilities of different forms who must also enjoy technology.
When we develop technology in the communications sector, we must pay attention to those people. It might be the use of a cellphone or deployment of such tools anywhere, she cited communication information centres, we must make sure that people who come and use that centre, if they are disabled they should be able to do so in consistent with the United Nations General Assembly Resolution which I am referring to. Zimbabwe as a country subscribes to the United Nations, particularly International Telecommunication Union has also to meet the 2030 deadline in addressing the issue of disabilities in adoption of ICTs.
Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social
Services. Minister, in children’s homes it has been realised that these children were being given $15 on a monthly basis but we realised that it is no longer being paid and there is hunger. In your Ministry, what have you done about it and how do you supervise such children’s homes?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Senator Makore for the question. The issue at hand concerning children’s homes is that there are two issues. We have those that are managed by the Government that we give per capita grants and those that are run by private voluntary organisations who apply to have such facilities and have their own funding. I think your question is related to the funding that come specifically from the Government. I agree that with the budgetary constraints that we are facing, the money that is supposed to be availed to those children’s homes is erratic. It is a big challenge that we have but we will continue to give priority on the matter and request Treasury to continue allocating these funds to ensure that these children are well looked after. What we do as a Ministry is that we have partners whom we also lobby to assist such children’s homes. Currently, the applications for children’s homes are quite a lot and we only allow them when they have reached certain stages. We now want children to stay in homes that are family style structures and not dormitories. So, we should see that the girls bedrooms are here, the boys bedrooms are there and the beds that fit in those homes; how the kitchen is – the stoves, fridges and also the daily menus. We want to see all those things. If there are boys and girls, we want to see the bathrooms and the toilets in those houses. The dining rooms and lounges are also considered.
What we encourage is that we want children to grow up in a family environment similar to those who are not disadvantaged. I have heard your concern and yes, it is our priority to ensure that the children’s homes are well funded so that we can keep them running smoothly. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Is the Minister aware that if they are not paying, this leads to abuse of children because they cannot complain. You just find that they are really scared because there is no contribution from the Government and their parents are not contributing anything. If you are putting children in that situation, there is abuse because nobody says anything and in some cases, your officers did not even
know where the Government social welfare homes were – they were getting lost when we were going with them. So, supervision is not really done properly
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam President. I
thank you for highlighting that issue. Obviously, that raises a lot of concern because when we have social welfare officers on the ground, we expect them to go and visit these homes so that if there is need for immediate intervention, it is provided. I certainly can tell you as a Ministry that even if there might not be monetary transfers to the institutions, if there is an immediate requirement for food and other assistance, as a Ministry, we can harness these resources to assist the particular children’s homes that might be negatively affected.
So as and when, we are appealing to Hon. Members, you come across such incidences and find that our officers are not performing diligently, by all means, please tell us and we will make some interventions. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
ENQUIRY INTO PARTISAN FOOD DISTRIBUTION
- HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services whether the Ministry has ever conducted an independent enquiry into the numerous complaints of partisan food distribution; and if so, what the findings have been.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. President. Mr. President, maybe just to start, we gave a Ministerial Statement on a question very related to this. So the answer I have here is a brief answer but with your indulgence, if you want to share the Ministerial Statement that we had with the Lower House yesterday, I will oblige because that then gives a lot more detail to the question that you raise but that is time dependent – with your indulgence.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Minister, can we do that after the questions have been completed.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. President, I will
proceed to give the abridged answer to the question and then go into detail later on.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Yes.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Mr. President, let me firstly start by stating that currently, Government is distributing 40 463 905 metric tonnes of grain to 809 279 households and a cumulative distribution total of 490 366 063 metric tonnes as at the 18th of January, 2017. Partners are also complimenting Government efforts by distributing cereals, pulses, cooking oil and cash transfers in some
districts.
It is imperative that I take this opportunity to emphasize the fact that the selection criterion for intended beneficiaries for the drought relief programme is conducted on non-partisan lines. Please note that applications for assistance with food aid are made through the respective village, ward and District Drought Relief Committees in line with the projections of the ZIMVAC Livelihood Assessment Report of 2016. As provided for in the policy framework, this procedure is implemented in a non-discriminatory and transparent manner.
This underscores the fact that food distribution is done purely on vulnerability status. As such, reports of this nature invoke worry to us as authorities and blemish a smooth flowing Government programme. In this regard, allow me to take great exception to claims suggesting parties and beneficiation in food distribution. Please take note that officials from my Ministry at national level together with provincial and district Drought Relief Committee members conduct regular monitoring visits in all districts and also carry out investigations when concerns are raised regarding food distribution on partisan lines.
As a Government, we do not condone the use of food or any other social protection strategy for political mileage. Given the severity of the drought, my Ministry continues to be inundated with distress calls from various sections of the public. In response, we have instructed that grain be allocated to cover these requests with clear instructions that it should be distributed through the District Drought Relief Committees using verified registers. This, I believe increases transparency in the food distribution process.
Effective collaboration of all stakeholders in food distribution will see us achieving our goal of feeding the nation without favour or discrimination regardless of gender, creed, colour or political affiliation for that. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Minister, I would want to point out that the question is asked genuinely and I do not understand why you take exception to any insinuation. You know that this question has arisen many times in this House and I do not think people in this House will be frivolous to raise that question. I have had personal experience which I have seen. I have seen other programmes being run very successfully. All I was asking for is, have you done an independent assessment of the allegations? I would have been happy with, yes we have done or no, we have not done. The response in two lines would have been sufficient to me. I repeat, have you done any independent assessment of the allegations?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. President. Hon.
Sibanda, the exception was not to you. It was to media reports insinuating otherwise. To you, it is with genuine and utmost respect to your answer. We have indeed done the verification, remember earlier on I said I have a more detailed paper, which will give details and with the indulgence of the House I will gladly submit after Questions With
Notice.
MEASURES TO STOP THE SALE OF LAND TO INDIVIDUALS
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement:
- To state the measures that have been put in place by the Ministry to stop people from selling land to individuals;
- To bring to book those people who unnecessarily cause disputes in the resettlement areas;
- To explain the role of the traditional leadership in the resettlement areas.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Mr. President.
Thank you Hon. Member for asking a good question. At the moment as I said, one of the officers who was supposed to take questions from this organisation was transferred yesterday, he is seconded to the Lands Commission. We are sorry about that. We are going to provide the answers next time. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Minister, I hope we can have that next week. Thank you.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
GOVERNMENT’S FOOD DEFICIT MITIGATION
PROGRAMME
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. President Sir. I thank you again for the opportunity to give a
Ministerial Statement on the Government’s Food Deficit Mitigation
Programme. My statement is largely in response to requests by Hon. Members from the Lower House and indeed, the Upper House that we shed light on the structure and the implementation framework of the programme.
We appreciate that the need for explaining has been prompted by disturbing allegations by the various media that the Government’s Food Deficit Mitigation Programme is being run on partisan lines. It is therefore imperative Mr. President Sir that as I outline this programme, I also give an expose of how it is and has been running over the years. The Food Deficit Mitigation Programme is a strategy that was adopted by Cabinet as part of the larger Drought Relief Management Programme to assist vulnerable households that include older persons, persons with disabilities, the chronically ill and often children with food hand-outs to mitigate the impact of drought.
Each year, a crop and livestock assessment is carried out by the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, followed by rural livelihood assessment carried out by ZIMVAC. Mr. President Sir, it is the reports of these assessments that form basis of determining which areas are food insecure by percentage of population, in order that the programme targets registered beneficiaries for those areas.
This assessment process is indicated as follows: the first round crop and livestock assessment is carried out from November to January each year. The second round crop and livestock assessment is from February to April. The ZIMVAC rural livelihoods assessment follows from May to June of the coming months. The declaration of the national percentage of the rural food insecure population is usually made in the period, July to August of the year. This is followed by the launch of the drought relief food distribution programme in the rural provinces. The Provincial Drought Relief Committees (PDRC) and District Drought Relief Committees (DDRC) use these assessments reports to carry out the beneficiary identification and registration.
Mr. President Sir, issues of drought mitigation require a collective approach with the active involvement of all concerned. This is therefore implemented in a hierarchical structure following the national development structures, which are the National Committees, Provincial
Development Committees, District Development Committees, Ward
Development Committees and the Village Development Committees.
The Drought Relief Structures that implement the programme are a different level and are as follows: at national level, the structure consists of the Cabinet, followed by the Cabinet Committee of Ministers under which the working party officials is composed of Permanent Secretaries of the respective Ministries. The national level deals with policy issues, giving direction of the programme and implementation modalities. At provincial level, there is already in existence a development structure called the Provincial Development Committee (PDC), where all line Ministries and Government agency, provincial heads meet and discuss development issues.
The Provincial Drought Relief Committee (PDRC) is a subcommittee of the PDC and is chaired by the Provincial Administrator. The traditional leadership representatives at provincial level are automatically members of the PDRC and participate on drought issues in this Committee. The Department of Social Services is the secretariat. At district level, there is the District Development Committee (DDC) chaired by the District Administrator. In the same manner as with the provincial level, the District Drought Relief Committee (DDRC) is chaired by the District Administrator. The Department of Social Services is the secretariat. Traditional leaders are automatically members of the DDRC. At ward level, the chief or the councillor chairs the Ward Drought Relief Committee (WDRC). The secretariat is provided by the WADCO. At village level, the Drought Relief Committee (VDRC) is chaired by the kraal head or village head and members of the committee are also determined by the Chair. The VIDCO provides the secretariat.
Mr. President Sir, the beneficiary selection is carried out by the villagers themselves. They are fully aware of the vulnerability levels within their communities and are able to distinguish the labour constrained and non-labour constrained households. The names of vulnerable households are compiled by the village head and submitted through the ward where initial verification is done. Thereafter, the registers are forwarded to the District Drought Relief Committee through the Department of Social Welfare.
After receiving the registers, the District Drought Relief
Committee undertakes a process of verification of the households in the registers before submitting the requirements to the national level through the Provincial Drought Relief Committee. At no time therefore, during this deliberate and elaborate registration process is political party affiliation ever requested.
Mr. President Sir, grain is collected from GMB depots and delivered to the various ward distribution points for collection by beneficiaries. The verified register is the legitimate piece of document that is used during the distribution. Beneficiaries are requested to produce only their National Identity documents; no political affiliation document is needed to access food. After the distribution exercise, monitoring teams from the national, provincial and district levels undertake regular monitoring visits in all the provinces. Where there are reports of food distribution on party lines, these are investigated by all the teams, including the grain importation logistics and distribution task force.
- However, we have in place a grievance system that can be used by those with complaints related to the grain distribution. Any aggrieved person has recourse to the village head, social welfare office or to the police.
- However, we are still using the manual system of tracking down the distribution of food and this poses challenges. Upgrade to the electronic system for verification and tracking will go a long way towards resolving challenges that are faced from time to time in this programme.
As part of the empowerment of the vulnerable households to mitigate the adverse effects of the drought, Government, this season is distributing agricultural inputs under the Presidential and Vulnerable Households Agricultural Inputs Scheme. Each vulnerable household receives a 50kg bag of Basal Fertiliser, a 50kg bag of top dressing and a 10kg bag of seed maize. A cummulative total of 5,432.02mt of basal fertilizer, 15,685.50mt AN and 7,785,48mt of maize seed has been distributed as at 18th January, 2017. Members of the House, please note that this scheme covers both urban and rural households.
This past year has been particularly unique in that, over and above catering for the traditionally vulnerable members of our society, a lot more households were assessed as food insecure, as a result of succumbing to the negative effects of the drought induced by El Nino. Accordingly, His Excellence, the President, declared the drought a state of disaster on 3rd February 2016. Government in turn appealed to the domestic and international communities on the 3rd and 4th February,
2016, for assistance in mitigating the effects of the drought.
Government acknowledges with thanks all the positive interventions and assistance we received from our social partners, both internationally and locally.
My acknowledgement would not be enough if I did not take time to also thank Hon Members who from time to time availed transport to ferry grain from district depots to ward distribution points. Thank you very much Hon. Members.
To buttress this submission, distress calls were also received from peri-urban areas that were also affected by the drought. In July 2016, Cabinet made a decision that the Food Deficit Mitigation Programme be introduced in Bulawayo and Harare Metropolitan Provinces where 18,937 and 11,094 households are receiving a total of 946.85 and 554.70mt of grain per month respectively. The programme will be rolled out to the other urban areas when the results of the Urban
Livelihood Assessment are adopted by Cabinet.
The assessment of vulnerable households in the past year has been on a continuous basis. My Ministry has been frequently inundated by distress calls from districts and constituencies appealing for food aid. In these desperate circumstances, we have had to urgently step in with immediate relief to avert hunger, pending detailed assessments of the vulnerability status of the concerned areas. It is important to highlight that the ad-hoc responses to distress calls were in all regions of the country, there was not a pattern to them and most importantly, they were not on partisan lines. My Ministry responded to all distress calls regardless of origin and responded positively, resources permitting. In the few instances where food distribution appeared to coincide with political activity, it is important to highlight that the food deficit mitigation programme has always been ongoing even in the absence of political activities. We reiterate Government’s position that the two should never be mixed.
We have called and continue to call for information wherever people are being denied food on partisan lines. In the past year, we received six isolated cases in the whole country, which I believe my Ministry staff responded to and corrected.
The success of this programme has recorded a total of 809,279 households receiving 40,463.95mt of maize grain per month, reflecting a grand total distribution of 490,366.63mt of maize as at
18th January 2017. 10,000mt of rice out of the total received of
19,000mt have been allocated to the country’s 10 provinces.
Additional releases will be dispatched on the province’s successful completion of first distributions. We recognise the special efforts of all departments which have been involved.
We continue to advise Hon. Members that food distribution should be done through the recognised established structures. More often than not, it is when Hon. Members negatively interfere that we hear of partisan alignment which is contrary to Government policy.
As I conclude, I reiterate that Government’s policy and position on food aid distribution is clearly transparent and non-partisan. Anything to the contrary is wrong, cannot be condoned and will not be allowed.
His Excellency, the President, is on record that “no one and no one should be allowed to starve” So let us all work together across party lines in upholding this position. I thank you.
HON. SEN TIMVEOS: Just last week, in Zvishavane, there was rice that was being given and it was given on partisan lines. They were asking for ZANU PF members, IDs, phone numbers and other things. The Hon. Member who is from Zvishavane actually first gave an address and reported what had taken place at the ZANU PF conference. After he was done, he then started giving out the rice. So, what must we do when we see such things happening because it is happening right now?
HON ENG. MATANGAIDZE: We called for registers of people
who will be receiving the rice. So, the registers simply have to show an ID number and the name of the person who will have received the rice. The reason why that is being done is because we wanted to ensure that existing people are getting the rice. That was not supposed to be on partisan lines. If the rice was issued using ZANU PF cards, I think we need to go and verify that, but I do not think that anyone would have been called to produce a party card for that rice. It is only the identity card that is required so that there is proof of actual names and IDs of people who will have been given the rice and that procedure is appropriate and above aboard. But to say that people were asked to produce party cards and party numbers – I think that would create challenges. I can even tell you that my party is currently processing party cards, so even if we were to use that, it would create problems because there are people who are still waiting for their own party cards. So, I doubt that he would have done it that way.
HON SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Minister, so you are saying it is in order for the Hon Member to first call a ZANU PF meeting, address the people and then he gives the rice and takes the register that you are talking about.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: That is not what I said Mr. President Sir. I will go back to my Ministerial Statement where I acknowledged the efforts from Hon. Members of Parliament for helping us to ferry the grain to the respective areas. The distribution process, I clearly outlined and said the person responsible for that distribution process will be the structures as outlined in my report. So, at no point, if the MP was present, yes by all means let him be present but the distribution process is per the structure that I gave you. So, Hon. Members, it is when you interfere that we here the issues of partisan lines but if you allow the structures as I outlined them to distribute, then we will all not have problem at all. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Clarification Mr.
President. I have stood up because what has been said has already been put on record. I want to say clearly in this House that your Ministry has a circular that you distributed that was directed to the Chiefs. It says
‘food at ward level would be distributed by the Child Protection
Committee.’ In the Committee, there are people who represent different sectors such as health and other sectors. The traditional chief is not a part of it. The structures that you have mentioned are not the ones operating. What you said about the traditional leaders is not true.
As traditional leaders, we are saying, you cannot distribute food in our community without our knowledge. The civil servant who wrote that, as the Chief’s Council we challenge that, we need to meet because this is a lie. As Traditional Chiefs we are complaining. We raised it with Minister Mupfumira to say that you are living us behind which is not right. The food distribution you are talking about is divided into two; there is the Ministry and also the NGO’s. The Oxfarm does not allow traditional leaders to mobilise people, even if you go with a list, they do not want. They do it on their own. They do their own vetting, calling the whole village and do the vetting themselves as officers from Oxfarm. These are things that we meet every day. I just want to make it clear that the traditional leaders are not in any way at the moment in the structures that distribute food. We are being attacked from left, right and centre and we are said to be partisan but we are not part of the process. We
want it to be clear to the Minister that the structure that you read is not the structure on the ground. I thank you.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. President.
Chief, I thank you for the clarification that you gave. That is why we gave the Ministerial Statement that is the structure that we have. If there are people who are not using this structure, they going against the law. We cannot go and distribute food in your community without the knowledge of the traditional leader. You are supposed to be part of that Committee. You are supposed to be in the provincial draught relief committee. If that is not happening, we need to address that to ensure that the structures incorporate the Chiefs. That is why we shared the information so that if there is a problem, we should address that. The structure should be as I said it, if there are people who are making interferences and making changes, we do not allow that.
*THE HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Minister, can you
put it in writing to us because there is a circular that you wrote to us and that is what they are using. So, can you write another one that will incorporate what you said in the Ministerial Statement and you also avail to us as the Traditional Leaders so that they know that the Ministerial Statement is this one in order for them to withdraw the one that you gave them.
HON. SENATOR KHUMALO: In the urban areas, it is different as well. The councillors or the residents associations are not involved. The councillors are called by people, come and see they are distributing food this side. Things are just done on partisan basis. We have old people who cannot walk who were not given food because they are suspected to be members of certain parties. Honestly, we need that thing to be corrected because those old people are old. Those disabled people whose parents may not be disabled need to be given food as I understand it from you. It is really done on partisan basis.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: From what the Minister has said in the Ministerial Statement, if we were following what you have said, we would not be making all this noise. It is because there is something that is seriously wrong. I want to put a suggestion that maybe again the terminology we use, once we start saying Presidential inputs, that alone, people will simply say endai munopihwa na President wenyu if you are not of the ruling part. That alone is wrong. Can we look at other names that really can accommodate everybody? The moment you are calling these inputs ‘presidential inputs,’ the misconception out there is that this belongs to a certain group of people. I think this has to be addressed, what are we calling ‘presidential inputs’ because the interpretation below is completely wrong. I thank you.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I am surprised Senator Chimhini says there is confusion when we say
‘presidential Inputs’. There is only one President and he is on record saying no one of his subject is going to starve. He never spoke about party affiliation. So, there can never be any confusion about the name Presidential input. It was at his instigation that it started. So, let us be very clear, when we are talking of a President in the country of Zimbabwe, there is only one. So, that Presidential input scheme applies to all people, if you are Zimbabwean, your President is His Excellency, President Robert Mugabe. He is on record as saying none of his subjects are going to starve. The outline I gave you is not on partisan line but provincial administrators, the district administrators. So, if there are specific examples, in my statement I mentioned that there were six examples that we identified. You had asked me earlier on Hon. Sibanda whether any exercise has been done; yes it was and six isolated cases in the country were identified. We have gone into rectifying that, so as and when example of this nature comes through, by all means, there is the re-course procedure that I outlined. Let us follow that recourse procedure and make sure we address that issue. However, the good thing is we know on record even people who are not from the ruling party are receiving food aid because obviously we want to bring them on board. It is actually their right because His Excellency said none of his subjects is going to suffer. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT (HON. SEN. Chief
CHARUMBIRA): Order, order! When I say order it means everybody should be seated.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: On a point of order, I request that the
Minister circulates the statement into our pigeon holes.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: Very reasonable request.
That is fine, it is accepted and it has been recorded in the Hansard. It is in the Hansard and the Minister can also distribute the report for the statement. So we move to Notice of a motion.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Thank you Mr. President. I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Thank you Mr. President. I would want to just pose a few words to this good motion by Hon. Sen.
Chimbudzi, that is advocating for us Zimbabweans to support the
National Pledge. Mr. President, in our supreme law of the land, the Constitution people have rights and those rights are to question some of the things that they do not understand. They have that freedom to question like people did when the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education Hon. Dr. Dokora, introduced the National Pledge.
We as a people, our culture has been polluted by politics. So it is very difficult for people to make a stand alone decision on their culture without querying on the political status. I say so because what she is advocating for, for example, the people that I share the same tribe, language and culture I do not share the same political values and at times they fail to identify with me because I have a complete different political aspiration. So, it is very difficult that we can then move forward peacefully because I would also stand on the ground that I am standing on because I believe it is my right. But at the same time because I am that then it is difficult to have a common ground with the people that I come from and that we share the same tribe, language and culture.
Mr. President, I hope I am very clear that the motion is very clear because it gave us the opportunity to talk about the things that we do not talk about like the salute of the national flag. The respect of the national flag of our country is written in our Constitution but if I wear something that has the colours of the national flag I am in confrontation with the police. Then how do I show pratriotism if I am not holding the national flag. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- Mr. President it is very difficult …
HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: On a point of order, Mr.
President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: What is
your point of order?
HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Can she please debate the motion.
Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Sorry
come again.
HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Can Hon. Sen. Mlotshwa debate
the motion properly than what she is doing. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
specifically what, because we need to know where is she going astray. Can you just pick one? Hon. Sen. Machingaifa, can you help to know which area she is digressing?
HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: She can start again Mr. President.
– [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
right at the back.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: The motion talks about patriotism, unity of purpose and common desire for equality and justice as mandated by the Constitution. So, when I am talking about the national flag I am talking about patriotism in case you did not know. I was talking about the national flag in relation to where we are going. We have a teapot situation where we have a bigger mouth and a smaller one. The water that goes in through the big mouth comes out as tea through the smaller mouth. We are preaching patriotism but we do not want people to be holding the national flag that they should identify themselves with. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- So, to me that is the kind of a situation that I am taking about.
Mr. President, it goes on to say “cherishing freedom, quality peace, justice, tolerance, prosperity and patriotism” like I said we cannot have peace if we cannot seat across the board and talk about our differences.
It is a problem that if I don’t believe what you believe it does not mean that I am less person than you are. So, tolerance is about accepting that everybody else is different from anyone else but we are all people. Whatever we do is important, so there is no way you can do things and exclude other people and then expect to have peace because we are
going to pull you down every time because we know you want to leave us. So, every time we pull you down so that we are at the same level.
So, we cannot achieve peace Mr. President, the Constitution of Zimbabwe which was put to Referendum in 2013; I am surprised to learn that we still do not have it printed in all the 16 languages so that at least everybody else understands what the National Pledge that is being talked about here. It is supposed to be the duty of the said Ministry to educate the public. So, it means that the Constitution must be put to that educational process so that everybody understands it in their own languages. It should be printed in the 16 languages, which includes the Braille that is supposed to be distributed and affords everybody a chance to understand the National Pledge.
What is surprising is that I hear that the same Ministry is printing the Islam literature, before it prints the Constitution so that at least everybody would understand it in their own language, which is right. I really have nothing more because I did not want to lose a chance to contribute to this good motion that will build us. Even the National Pledge you cannot force us to say, understand it. You cannot force people to say understand it; want it; but it has to come from within ourselves. So, if something has to come from within ourselves you should first understand us so that at least on our own we come out and say yes we understand what is being talked about in the Constitution. May be the issue is not about the National Pledge but it is about that the people do not know what is being talked about.
The last point I would like to make is that at times people do not like it because it talks about the history, how we came to be as
Zimbabweans. It says, “determined to overcome any challenges that impede our resolve to cherish and uphold the fruits of our hard earned independence.” We hear in different platforms and documents, at times history is being distorted, people are not talking exactly what happened. So, at times people are always alert and do not believe in people who are say they want to protect the hard earned independence because the same people are not protecting the true history of what exactly happened so that the children of Zimbabwe would know.
For example, the relationship between the late Joshua Mqabuko
Nkomo and President R. G. Mugabe, who appointed who to a position? Are we talking about it? So, how then do you believe all the other things people talk about that they want to protect the people of Zimbabwe from their history? I thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. Mr.
President, I also rise to commend Hon. Chimbudzi for coming up with such a brilliant motion. I would like to applaud the Government’s initiative even though belated. I think we all totally agree that Zimbabwe has been lagging behind in the implementation of this National Pledge.
Hon. Members, as Zimbabwe this is the time to reflect on ourselves and think about who we are? Where did we come from? Where are we and where do we want to go to? The question of rights or being able to choose what you want, it has got history. If we do not know our history; if we do not value our history; if we cannot inculcate that in our children about where we are coming from, then we are lost as a nation. It is important to know that in knowing your rights, it will not disturb the idea of inculcating patriotism.
In patriotism, there are differences. It does not take away the way one sees certain issues. We can walk towards the same direction as a nation, differently. What this National Pledge is trying to do, is to bring that unity of purpose and equal desire for equality and justice. At this point, we are saying we have come late, but it is better late than never. It is a pity that – personally I had an experience when I went as a diplomat to the United States of America. My children were studying there. They knew so much about Christopher Columbus or Boston Tippet and yet they had gone to school in this country but they did not even know about the history of their own parents in house.
I think it is time as Zimbabweans, we ask ourselves, who are we?
It is critical. The freedom we talk about did not come on a silver platter. There are certainly generations and generations who gave their lives to it. It is important also at this point, to encourage the Government, they have taken this initiative to come up with the National Pledge. We should also encourage writing of our own history so that we leave a legacy of Zimbabweans who are proud of being Zimbabweans. Let us never look down upon ourselves. The fact that we have differences in the way we look at things does not really make us not a nation. We are one nation, one people. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
I had an opportunity to live in America. Whether Republican or
Democrat, you have got the same values of where you want to go as an American. We need to have the same values as Zimbabweans so that we can achieve our target, where we want to go. In getting there, the freedom of choice is there. The freedom of expression is there, that will never take that away but it is important. I want really to thank you Hon. Chimbudzi for coming up with this very important motion. This is our history. Without history, we cannot be a nation. We really thank the Minister, we want more and we want change in the curriculum. We want our children, before they learn about European or American history, let them learn about Zimbabwean and African history so that they are proud of who they are. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to add my voice on the motion raised by Hon. Chimbudzi. Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi, I thank you for bringing this motion to this august House. Truly, the National Pledge is a welcome development. I do not know what the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education had noticed. May be it is because we are now in a world of technology, whereby he looked at it and realised the need to change curriculum. If children know their National Pledge, they will then understand in different ways. Others understand when the teacher is teaching, others understand through the National Anthem. It will also inculcate discipline within our children who will have moral values and they will understand the history of the country, where we came from, what happened and why people went to war. So they understand using different mediums.
Initially, I did not understand the pledge but when I sat down and attentively listened to it, I realised that we were actually lagging behind.
The National Pledge is good because it helps people to have good national values. It helps us to have an identity; there is nothing as bad as not having an identity. The reason why we were the last ones to attain independence in the SADC is because we began by saluting parents who are not our own. When I grew up, the European did not want me to know my own history but I knew about David Livingstone and others which are things that we look at today and say distorted our history and we did not know about our history.
Our children today can ask themselves who am I today? What happened to the nation for us to have independence? So what are we then looking for in terms of us being independent? Look at the rights that we talk about today, we abuse some of them today and say they are not being respected. It is all because of the history of Zimbabwe. Without that history, we would not know our rights. As Mawire, I would not know the rights that I have over my land. So I am saying it was long overdue but as one of the people said, it is not necessary or important.
We are not the only ones; we have schools and children who also thought it was a good idea to have a national pledge. If we look nationwide, other countries also have their national pledge and if we look further, we will realise even our white counterparts in their countries have what is known as ‘national service’. They realised that without national service, the youths will be difficult to control or be able to understand their nation, work with confidence as well as respecting the freedom fighters that liberated their nations. So, for that reason, we are saying that this national school pledge is very important because when children are disciplined and know their history and values, they will then be able to look after their heritage. They will understand why people went to church. They will know that people like David Livingstone were just missionaries who came in but the people who we should applaud are our ancestors and ancestral spirits such as Kaguvi and Nehanda and you will realise that it will not be difficult to control children.
On Monday, we visited the police stations. We wanted to see how prisoners are being treated and realised that when people are arrested, the way they are treated is different and that person is different from me because they do not understand the beauty of our country and values. I want to applaud Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for bringing this motion and do not know how you thought of it.
This national pledge will bring unity and peace in the nation. It can be achieved because people understand where their nation comes from and also the struggles that the nation has been through. I want to thank you Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Mr. President, I move that debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 7th February, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Mr. President, I seek
leave of the House to move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 3 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 8 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
LAND COMMISSION BILL (H.B.2A, 2016) Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Reading of the Land Commission Bill (H. B. 2A, 2016).
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Mr. President Sir, I stand to make the Second Reading of the Land Commission Bill. The Land
Commission Bill has been necessitated by the enactment of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Act, No. 20 (2013)…
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Mr. President, on a point of order.
We request that since we have received the Bill now, we have not had a chance to read it. So, may we debate the Bill next week?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Hon. Sen. Mlotshwa and of course
with the leave of the House, the Minister can move the Bill, no debate this afternoon then when we come back next week, we commence debate. Just read and listen to the whole purpose of the Bill, study the
Bill then next week we debate. Agreed to? – [HON. SENATORS: Yes!]
–
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank
you.
HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. The Land
Commission Bill has been necessitated by the enactment of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Act, No. 20 (2013) and in the particular Section 297 (5) and (6) which provide that the State and all institutions and agencies at every level through legislative and other measures must assist the Zimbabwe Land Commission Bill in carrying out its function and must protect its independence, impartiality, integrity and effectiveness.
- The Government must make adequate and suitable provision, through legislation and other appropriate means, to ensure that –
- the Zimbabwe Land Commission is able to exercise its functions efficiently and independently; and
- Persons employed by the Zimbabwe Land Commission carry out their duties conscientiously, fairly and impartially.
Mr. President, the Bill before you is a milestone in a land reform of historic dimensions almost without comparison in the modern era. It is an achievement long in the making, beginning with our people being dispossessed of their ancestral rights to their land during the colonial era and distinguished by several land marks over many generations, specifically from the First Chimurenga (1896 – 1897), the Second Chimurenga (1966), culminating in our independence in 1980 and finally the decisive phase of the land reform in 2000.
Why do I say that our land reform is “almost without comparison in the modern era?” In terms of the magnitude of the historical imbalances that needed to be redressed, the size of land transferred, the speed and comprehensiveness of the transfer, the numbers of our people who have benefitted, and the extent of the benefits actually accruing to our people, it is hard to find its peer anywhere in the world in recent times. Allow me to quote from a recent publication, Zimbabwe Takes Back its Land.
“In the biggest land reform in Africa, 6000 white farmers have been replaced by 245 000 indigenous farmers. Zimbabwe’s land reform has not been neat and huge problems remain. But 245 000 new farmers have received land and most of them are farming it. They have raised their own standard of living, have already reached production levels of the former whiter farmers and with a bit of support are ready to substantially increase that production.
The area of land redistributed to date stands at 12.6 million hectares. Such a massive exercise achieved in a relatively short period of time resulted in a number of administrative issues like boundary disputes, double allocation and infrastructure sharing problems amongst others, which need to be addressed holistically. Hence, the establishment of the Land Commission through Section 296 of the Constitution.
In terms of the legislative background to this Bill, it is the first significant legislative intervention in the sphere of land reform and land tenure since the Land Acquisition Act of 1992 and the various amendments to that Act (the last of which was in 2002). It also seeks to repeal two colonial era pieces of land settlement and tenure legislation, namely Rural Land Act and the Agricultural Land Settlement Act, which were enacted in 1963 and 1969 respectively.
The Bill will provide for the corporate status of the Commission, the tenure of office and conditions of service of the members of the
Commission. The Bill is also premised on the Commission’s functions as set out in Section 297 of the Constitution and provides for the appointment of an Executive Secretary of the Commission and its secretariat as well as the hiring of experts or consultants where necessary. It upholds the independence and impartiality of the Commission and its members and addresses conflicts of interest on the part of members of the Commission and its staff in the course of discharging their duties. It provides for the submission of reports by the Commission to the Minister and the tabling by the Minister of such reports before Parliament.
The Bill provides for jurisdiction of the Commission to conduct comprehensive inspections and audits of agricultural land, to conduct investigations whenever complaints regarding the supervision, administration and allocation of agricultural land are raised as well as over disputes regarding agricultural land. The manner in which the
Commission may conduct investigations and audits is outlined.
Investigations will take the form of public or closed hearings.
Part IV of the Bill incorporates most of the existing provisions in the Rural Land Act, which will be repealed by this Bill. It relates to the general administration of State land by the Minister responsible for the category of State land in question.
Part VII of the Bill deals with the appellate and dispute settlement functions of the Commission as well as the Commission’s power to make regulations in relation thereto. It must be read together with the
Fifth Schedule. I wish to draw the House’s attention that in striving to settle land disputes and complaints, the Commission is enjoined to endeavour to employ conciliation and mediation between the disputants as a first resort. Even where these efforts fail, the disputants are assisted by the Commission to come up with a clear agreed statement on the issues to be decided by the Commission.
The Bill will provide for the establishment of a Register of
Partially Alienated State Land Rights. Every entry in this register (whether it be a permit, lease or offer letter) will be deemed to be the definitive record of such right and in the event of any inconsistency between such entry and any other record of such right kept in terms of this Bill or otherwise, the entry in the register shall prevail as proof of the partially alienated land right or any particular thereof.
Under Part IX of the Bill, the Ministry is enabled through its designated officers, to create, vary or cancel statutory servitudes over or in favour of holdings of partially alienated State land. It provides for the reference of disputes in connection with proposed statutory servitudes and the rights, privileges and obligations of interested parties and the hearing of such disputes before the Commission. Provision is made for the registration of statutory servitudes in the Registry of Partially
Alienated State Land Rights and where appropriate, in the Deeds Registry.
Part XI of the Bill sets forth general provisions of the Bill and deals with the following matters: rentals for state land, the Minister’s authority to give the Commission policy directions, limited immunity against legal proceeding for the Commission or any member of the
Commission, Executive Secretary or person acting under the direction of the Commission in pursuance of this Bill and provision for the Provincial, District and other offices of the Commission.
This Bill should enable the Land Commission to carry out its functions efficiently, effectively and impartially as envisaged by the
Constitution. I hope that the foregoing summary of the provision of the Bill adequately explains, for the benefit of Members of this House, what it is that this Bill seeks to achieve and that the measure will receive your support. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 7th February, 2017.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA,
INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MATHUTHU), the House adjourned at Five Minutes to Five o’clock
p.m. until Tuesday, 7th February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 8th February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that I have received the Appropriation Bill [H.B. 14A, 2017] from the National Assembly.
SECOND READING
FINANCE BILL [HB 3, 2017]
First Order read: Second Reading: Finance Bill [H.B. 3, 2017]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, it is my
singular honour to present and to move the Second Reading of the
Finance Bill [H.B. 12, 2017]. The purpose of the Bill Madam President, is to give effect to the revenue measures which were announced in the 2017 National Budget Statement which I presented to the august House on the 8th of December, 2016. The measures seek to achieve the following:-
- They seek to promote foreign direct investment;
- To provide tax relief to tax payers particularly small and medium enterprises and players in the informal sector;
- They seek to enhance revenue collection through enactment of anti-avoidance measures and widespread use of information technology in tax administration;
- The measures also seek to mobilise additional revenue to fund critical sectors of the economy and also to promote efficiency in tax administration and;
- Lastly, the measures seek to strengthen initiatives towards promoting good corporate governance.
Madam President, in order to attract foreign direct investment and enhance the economy’s capacity to competitively produce goods and services, Government enacted the Special Economic Zones legislation. I have thus proposed the following tax incentives for investors into
Special Economic Zones:-
- I am giving exemption from corporate income tax for the first five years of operation and 15% thereafter. I am granting a special initial allowance on capital equipment to be allowed at the rate of 50% of cost from year one and 25% in the subsequent two years.
- I am granting a flat 15% personal income tax for specialised expatriate staff.
- I am also giving exemption from non-residence tax on fees payable in respect of any services of a technical, managerial, administrative or consultative nature.
- I am also granting exemption from non-residence tax on royalties’ payable as consideration for the use of/or the right to use patents, trademarks, secret formula or processes among others.
- I am also granting exemption from non-residence tax on dividends.
Madam Speaker, small to medium enterprises play a critical role in the economy hence account for significant portion of the gross domestic product and employment creation.
Initiatives by SME’s have thus greatly assisted in poverty alleviation, eradication and economic empowerment. In order to further enhance the growth of SME’s, I am proposing the following support measures:-
- I am waving the requirement for SME’s to account for output tax from the deemed date of qualification for registration, that is when gross turnover exceeds, the threshold of US$60 000 per annum. This measure will apply to SME’s whose turnover does not exceed US$240 000 per annum and also voluntarily register for VAT with Zimbabwe Revenue Authority.
- Eligible SME’s will thus account for VAT from the date of registration. Also one of the support measures is the option to account for provisional tax on a monthly basis.
- The informal sector largely views taxes as an additional cost to business. In order to encourage voluntary compliance within the sector; I am proposing to review downwards all presumptive taxes and the payment period from quarterly to monthly basis.
Madam Speaker, in order to provide relief to tax payers of various classes, I further propose the following amendments to the Income Tax Act, Value Added Tax Act and the Capital Gains Tax Act.
- I grant VAT exemption for banking and payment solutions offered by institutions registered under the National Payment Systems Act which are assisting in resolving some of the payment challenges arising from the current cash shortages.
- I am granting exemption of board fees accruing to nonexecutive directors from non-residence tax on fees.
- I am granting exemption of Government from debt redemption and strategic reserve levies.
- I am granting reduction of the debt redemption levy on petrol by 1% per litre.
- I am extending deferment of export tax on un-beneficiated platinum to 1st January, 2018.
- I am also giving and allowing elimination of double taxation for informal traders who are currently required to pay presumptive taxes and in some instances, informal traders tax.
- I am also granting reduction in rates for carbon tax charged on foreign registered motor vehicles to a uniform rate of 10% per annum.
- Further, I am granting tax exemption for the Zimbabwe Asset
Management Company, that is ZMCO with effect from 15th July 2014, instead of 1st January, 2016.
- I am also granting income tax exemption on proceeds of the 5% export incentive paid by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe on receipts of earnings by exporters and on remittances from abroad received by individuals in Zimbabwe which are channeled through dealers.
- I am granting capital tax exemption on donation of housing units to any local authority, employee, share ownership scheme or community development trust and I am granting capital gains trust on these schemes.
- Lastly, I am zero rating gold sales to Fidelity Printers and Refineries with effect, retrospective from 1st January 2014, this measure will be effected through subsidiary legislation.
Madam Speaker, in order to raise additional revenues to fund critical Government programmes, I am proposing the following measures:-
- Introduction of a health fund levy of 5 cents for every dollar of airtime and mobile data under the theme “talk safe and save a life”. This will promote access to comprehensive and effective health services for all citizens. The resources raised will be ring-fenced for the purchase of drugs and equipment for public hospitals and clinics.
I will be granting an extension of the limit on tax deductable expenditure which is currently restricted to transactions between the parent company and its subsidiary or branch to apply to transactions between associated companies. This will minimise base erosion and opportunities for profit shifting to lower tax jurisdictions. I am also granting introduction of the concept or permanent establishment which is necessary in establishing the right for Zimbabwe to tax the profits of a foreign country.
Also to be included is exclusion deemed dividends arising from disallowed interest expenses exceeding the date to equity ratio threshold of three to one from the current income tax exemption.
I will be also expanding the definition of specialised assets for purposes of levying capital gains tax to include income accruing from the disposal of prescribed property of any description, whether tangible or intangible including whatever nature of rights to such property.
I am also seeking the introduction of VAT withholding tax at two thirds of the output tax payable by specified VAT registered operator designated by the Commissioner-General of ZIMRA.
Madam Speaker, the proposals in this Bill will be complimented by the following measures aimed at improving administrative efficiency and minimising tax fraud.
I am providing for the payment of dividend tax arising from disallowed interest in terms of the self assessment provisions. Currently, the tax is payable upon notification by the Commissioner-General of ZIMRA.
Secondly, the $30.00 daily penalty per machine for failure to connect acquired fiscalised devices to ZIMRA server for purposes transmitting real time data of vettabale transactions.
Lastly, to empower the Commissioner-General of ZIMRA to report any unethical conduct by tax payer or a tax practitioner to a recognised controlling board or association that regulates their conduct.
Madam Speaker, the current monetary amounts for level one to three of the standard scale of fines are no longer deterrent enough to errant behaviour particularly on our roads. As a result,most of the carnage that is witnessed on the country’s roads is a result of human error arising from failure to observe road traffic regulations. I am therefore, proposing to review upwards monetary amounts for levels one to three on the standard scale of fines. I now move that the Finance Bill be now read a second time.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President of the
Senate. I listened carefully when the Minister was talking and I have found out that this Bill is not only going to help the GDP of the country but it is also going to help in plugging the loopholes or leakages of the national income. I think this thing was long overdue and it is also one way through which the nation is going to reclaim whatever would have been taken from it or from its coffers unnecessarily, through dirty hands and corrupt tendencies. I think it is a very good Bill, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Madam President. I wish to
really thank the Minister and congratulate him. This Bill is progressive and humanitarian. A lot of its aspects really are people focused, especially on health. I think we should also go to defence, all the essentials - I think it should also go to education. We should be able to pay, companies should be able to pay for the health of this nation. This is I think to me commendable this is most important that really the health sector has become very shameful.
If you are near Botswana, you go to Botswana for health services, because we do not have drugs in our hospitals. If you are near Zambia, you go to Zambia. Now, this move really to tax the very wealthy, luxury and bringing the funds, it is really commendable. I should think we should also add defence, because there is no soldier who can be told to go and start working for his own food, to carry it to go to war. I think defence should also be covered. The Minister covers it somewhere, but I am just trying to highlight the positive aspect of this Bill. It really deserves support I thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Madam President. While I
support the Bill that has been brought to this House, I want to encourage the Minister to ensure that we do not have policy inconsistencies. One thing he has mentioned is the question of FDI. We can only get FDI when there is confidence building. So, I want to believe that in Cabinet we will be singing from the same hymn book so that the effort the
Minister is putting is also complemented by what other Ministers say.
For us to get any assistance from outside in FDI is only when there is confidence in the country. So I really want to believe and ask the Cabinet to make sure that we support the Minister for us to deal with the FDI issue.
The second issue is that Minister, you have talked about 3 million businesses in the SMEs. I am not too sure whether Minister you are aware how difficult it is for people to register online. I have experienced problems where people who have small businesses would want to pay licences to the local authorities and they have been told that they can only do that when they have the tax clearance. They are asked to get the tax clearance through online registration to get the certificate. We are talking of an old man and woman running a bottle store out in Mahenye and they have to do that online on the internet. It is very difficult, in most cases people have failed to gain access because the system jammed throughout and they have been asked to do that during the night.
In other words, we are losing revenue because people decide not to register because it is cumbersome to do the registration online. The third issue Minister, through Madam President, is that the Minister talked about supporting women programmes. The question of women’s bank, I hope this is not only on paper. Let us get the money, whether it is $3 million or whatever, let us get that money deposited in some account, ring-fenced so that the women can access that money. That is one way to empower women –[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
If we continue talking about it year in year out I think this will be just paper money or records that do not reflect what is on the ground and what the Minister wants to make sure that we change, improve and the economy grows. I thank you Madam President. – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. I would
also want to add my voice on the motion that has been presented by the Minister. It is a welcome Bill because if you mention anything that supports women, as a woman I am very happy. I would like to see that happening practically as a practical person. The Minister when he presented his motion talked about supporting the cotton industry. Unfortunately, when the debate was done, I was not there. I do not know whether he has something which also supports the farmers who deal
with citrus, whether there is anything for the exportation of these citrus fruits and how he is going to assist them. Also, I would like to know - there are problems in importing agricultural inputs, especially the fertilizers that are not within the country; whether there is a lee way that he has put in place on how we can get these inputs. – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Than you Madam President. I rise to
congratulate the Minister for particularly addressing the issue of Special Economic Zones the issue of Economic Zones Madam President it has been on cards for all I can remember, for almost 20 years now. It has been like the Government was hesitant to implement the program. The most important thing that I want to congratulate the Minister about is for the first time and I believe for the first time, the Minister has decided to do what they call biting the bullet. For all the years the Government has been hesitant to offer tax reliefs to those who want to invest their monies in this country. The approach has been in my view if you do not tax them then the Government will not get money. I think we have got to a point where we are saying if the Government can not get taxes from these investors at least for the next five years, then thereafter we will then get more. I think that is the best route. Not only will it encourage the growth of our economy, but that will also create more jobs in this country.
The issue of taxing the informal traders has been a vexing issue, but it looks the Minister has come around and has now found a way of insuring that whilst the informal traders are taxed - they are not double taxed. The problem has been that they buy from Mahomed Mussa, they are taxed and then they go to sell then they are taxed. Can a way be found that they are taxed at one point because that will also encourage them not to dodge taxes because they know that they are doing the right thing. Madam President, the rest has been said, except to add what has been said before that issue of consistency, once the Government decides we want to go this way or the Minister has said this is the route to go. We would want to see that thing done. It is pointless for us to sit here and support him and only to be told that that idea has now been reversed.
I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President. I would like to thank the Minister and support the Bill, but also to say that we welcome the exemption from capital gains tax on donations made by companies and houses as you put it. In future, can you extend such donations to schools that are destroyed? We find companies are donating to various infrastructural projects like schools that are destroyed by wind or by rain. Could you extend these to such donations? Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUBANE: Thank you Madam
President for offering me this opportunity. First and foremost, I would want to commend the Minister of Finance for coming up with this Bill. It is one of those challenging jobs in our Cabinet today. I want to commend the Minister for coming up with this Bill. Most of the points have been raised by colleague Senators, so I will not repeat them. I would want to comment on the health fund levy as found in Section 31
of this Bill.
There have been cries that the people of Zimbabwe are over taxed and indeed, they are. In saying that, I would want to commend the Ministry. As Government, there are critical sectors that we should take responsibility. I know that taxing people is not the right thing, the sentiments are not good but I would want to thank the Minister that Government should prioritise allocating money to important sectors like health, other than to rely on donors to fund our health sector. It would be disastrous when they decide and it fits in into the theme of last year’s budget, ‘growing the national cake’. How do we grow the cake? One of the ways is domestic resourcing.
I would want to compliment the Minister for a job well-done. As a person who sits in the HIV/AIDS Committee, I feel that you have done very well. I feel I should commend you for a job well-done. My second point Minister is you have also said you have deferred the effective days of tax on exportation of unbeneficiated platinum. While this is a noble idea, I think it is important that we should come up with a cut off time that we should process our own resources locally. If we delay, we are keeping those people, especially South Africa because the platinum goes in its raw form and it is further processed. People in South Africa are getting jobs of a resource that is found within our borders.
I think as a matter of urgency, we should assist mining companies to set their own smelting plants so that we are able to extract because platinum is not the only mineral. There are several resources that we could benefit from. With those few words Madam President, I would want to thank the Minister for the Bill that he has just presented. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. I would also want to thank the Minister who has presented this Bill. I will focus on banks regarding ZAMCO because banks are finding it difficult because our economy is in the doldrums. We thank you for the effort you are putting in growing this economy. My plea is that let us not encourage the establishment of small banks so that when they borrow this money, it is passed on to the Government. You have told this august Senate that you have adopted the credits and accounts owned by these companies. What we want is to avoid these organisations being ghost houses because if it goes like that, these companies will not be able to pay back the money they will have borrowed. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: Thank you Madam President. I
would like to add a few things concerning this Bill which has been brought by the Minister of Finance. I have heard that in his presentation, he said that the Ministry of Health and Child Care would be assisted a lot. We appreciate that. It will be very good that in the Health Ministry where he is going to assist, he needs to remember that there are people who are affected by diabetes. Those are the only people who are not able to get their medication for free.
However, that is a disease that is very rampant and it is affecting more people than any other disease. There are so many people who are affected by diabetes and most of these people are not employed. They are not able to access medication as insulin and the other medication is expensive. We are therefore appealing to the Government to assist the people who are living with diabetes so that they are able to get medication for free like those who are HIV positive who get their medication for free. As a Member of Parliament, I would like to say that the people are pleading with the Government to consider those who are living with diabetes. I thank you.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We also thank
you Hon. Sen. Chief Gampu.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam
President. I want to thank all Hon. Senators who have made contributions and also for their support. I am gratified that all those who have contributed are supporting the direction that we are now travelling.
I expect that I will continue to receive that support in the future. Hon. Sen.tttrr Marava, you started with the issues on the measures that we are taking to plug leakages. We believe that we can generate more revenues from the economic activities as they are more than we are doing.
I also believe that the system had been corrupted. So, it is the resolve of my Ministry to close all those loopholes so that we can enhance revenue collection. Some of the measures that we have insisted ZIMRA should undertake include cargo tracking. We have had instances where these haulers declare at Beitbridge that they are destined for DRC, Zambia and so on and as soon as they pass the border, they offload goods which have not paid duty on to the domestic market. This is mainly rampant in the area of fuel. So, for this reason, with the assistance of the African Development Bank, we now are piloting a tracking system which tracks the journey travelled by any truck and it puts seals on to the vehicle from Beitbridge until it gets to Chirundu or whichever exit border post.
We have had some challenges recently and I think it proved that the tracking system is working. We had an incident where fuel that was declared to be destined for DRC, I think, was offloaded here and then replaced with water. So, those are issues that we need to keep an eye on and we will certainly make sure that all the culprits are brought to book. You can see one of the sources of our revenue, especially customs duty, is fuel. So, if there is that kind of leakage obviously, it means a big hole in our revenue collection.
Another system that we have also introduced is CCTV, mostly starting with Beitbridge Border Post which is the busiest in Sub-Sahara. It handles a lot of traffic, more than any border post in Sub-Sahara. So, clearly the administration within the border post itself, leaves a lot to be desired. There are a lot of touts who ply their trade there who have no business to be inside the building except to lobby or to bribe those officers who are given the task to move traffic and to charge taxes. So generally, there is no direct contact between the briber and the officials. It is done through those touts who mill around the border post. So, we are setting up a system, basically to exclude anybody who has no business to be inside not to be inside. So, those are some of the measures that we are taking.
I have also mentioned, I think earlier, in my main speech that we want to connect all taxpayers. Their teams must be connected real time to ZIMRA so that as transactions are undertaken, we know what has been collected by the tax payer. Generally, you will find they collect VAT on behalf of ZIMRA and it is not remitted, they collect Pay As You Earn and it is not remitted to ZIMRA. They collect all sorts of taxes which is not their money. They basically use that money for themselves. So, we want again, to eliminate that situation. So, you are right, I should never remain in the position that I find myself in where above 90% of the revenues are going to wages. We need to correct it.
We need to correct that structure of our budget and we are pursuing two routes.
The one basically, is to undertake and implement rationalisation measures within the civil service. That is a process and not an event. It will take time. My hope is that we can, by 2019, have reduced the wage expenditure as a proportion of revenue from the current 90% and above to about 55% or 50%. That will give me room, fiscal space to spend on operation and also to spend on capital formation. And this is where we can create real jobs, improving service delivery, doing our roads and doing our irrigation schemes. That is where the real production will come from, not just paying people and we have no money for them to pay for operations.
So, the other route is to grow the cake which is why the main thrust of the Budget in 2017 is to focus on production. Unless we have production, we have no economy and it causes a lot of complication. I am happy to say, Madam President, that this year we gave maximum focus on agriculture through the initiatives on command agriculture, through the initiatives of the Presidential Scheme, through the initiatives of the support to the cotton sector. So far, the heavens have smiled on us. If the rain pattern is maintained, I am expecting growth from agriculture more than I projected in the 2017 National Budget because we were working on assumptions. So, I am expecting more production from that sector, which as you know, is the anchor to all our economy. It will in turn drive our manufacturing and our industry. So, the prospects are very good.
I am also expecting and I think we have been growing gold production and it is coming on stream. Last year, we were falling short of the target buy one metric tonne, but certainly the trend is in the right direction. This year, I am expecting a bigger output from cotton. So, right across the board, as we go into next season, we are going to carry the command agriculture into wheat production. We are also in
2018/2019; going to increase the support we give to the Presidential Scheme. We are also going to include other crops like soya beans on to the Command Agriculture structure. This is to address the sector of agriculture which will in turn basically, affect other sectors in the economy.
Senator Musaka, thank you very much for your support. You mention something about the Defence budget. I am sorry it is not what it should be. All we are doing, and hardly well, is to look after the wages. An army must have equipment and we do not have those resources, which is very bad. An army can actually be even smaller as long as it has more sophisticated equipment and is mobile both in the air and on the ground. That is what makes an army an efficient army and we are not doing well there, I must admit, but it is not intentional. It is an issue that we try to be as creative as we can to mobilise resources sometimes outside the budget.
The health sector, I think I have already mentioned the efforts that we are making. I am going to be monitoring the inflows from the Health levy and especially its application. I had some disappointment with respect to 2014 or 2015; we made resources available to Parirenyatwa and Mpilo Hospitals to purchase certain equipment. At Parirenyatwa Hospital, it was installed almost within six months. At Mpilo Hospital, we had to make noises last year. It had not been done. Now, that is an investment that is like going to waste.
They have now started running around and when you ask why there was that delay, the answers you get are not satisfactory because we gave the two institutions equal resources for the equipment and also for the installation of the equipment. In one case, it happened and in the other, the equipment was just sitting, remaining in its crates and so on.
So, it then means we needed also to address the issue of management.
Clearly, there should have been a problem of management.
Hon. Chimhini, thank you for the support. The issue you mention about policy inconsistency. There are none now but where they are, personally I understand them. When we have a new or unique situation like we have and you are coming up with new policies, you need to carry everybody along with you and sometimes you are not on the same page. This is only helped by more consultations, debate and more inconsistencies which eventually will get you to a position where consensus has been established. So, I am not worried about disagreements, whether in private or public. They help basically consolidate and clarify a lot of things that we are doing, more-so when we are seeking in terms of a policy to do a U-turn. People are more comfortable with status quo. They do not like change that much. Clearly at the moment, we have a very good environment which is conducive for foreign direct investment except the stigma of sanctions; the negative impact of sanctions. That is what is now standing between us and entering the global economy. We should develop more confidence about ourselves. We should speak less negatively about our country. I am not saying our country is perfect. No country is perfect but even within the family, we are not perfect households. The expectation is that whatever problems you have in your household, keep them to your household. Do not come out in the street and shout about them. The street will not help you to resolve them. Similarly, with respect to any challenges that we may face as Zimbabweans internally, let us not go out of the country to bad-mouth our country, administration, Opposition or Government, that is internal.
My disappointment on this was with our debt arrears clearance with the multi-lateral institution, to find Zimbabweans tracking the Governor and I. They tracked us wherever we went to engage for resolution of this issue and then after we left, they would lobby them not to support Zimbabwe. That, I think is very bad. It does not matter who you are. If you are Zimbabwean, that is evil. They would write all sorts of e-mails to the World Bank and Afrexim Bank to say, do not support Zimbabwe. That is very bad because these institutions also have people who may not quite like us. They will now find a basis upon which they can withdraw their support from us. I know countries that have worse problems than ours but when we meet them outside, they never talk badly about their own fellow citizens, President or country. They do it when they are in their own countries. We need to adopt that kind of attitude also in our country.
On the difficulties for obtaining tax clearance certificates, I am advised that ZIMRA has since rectified the system challenges. Tax payers can now easily obtain the tax clearance certificate. If you continue or any of your constituency members continue to encounter problems, please let me know. We need that feed back. We are not in business. We make laws and we do not know how they affect people differently, so we need to be advised what the problems are.
With respect to the Women’s Bank, you need to know that we have capitalised it with US$10 million to start a micro-finance institution. I also need to advise the Senate that I have also capitalised the Youth Bank with US$10 million too. This is out of recognition that when we look at the SME’s sector, the key players are women and youth and not men. We need to increase their access to capital. Again, I have been advising both the Women and Youth Bank promoters that when they lend, they should look at someone who has already taken the first step and not someone who just comes and has never done anything or sold a tomato and so on, and then they give him money but on the say-so of that borrower. They should go out there, look at what people are doing at Siyaso; see those who need that capital to enhance their activities. Those are the people that they should support. Even the Bible says, you must take the first step before God comes to help you. Senator Mohadi, thank you for the support for the Bill. I will take up the issue about what support we can give to citrus fruits. Infact, the support I can tell you straight away is that, if you export your oranges, you are going to earn that 5%. That support is to all exporters. You will be able to earn that 5% but if you have any other incentives in mind that you think we should introduce, please let me know.
On importation of fertilizers, you need to know that we do not charge customs duty on imports of fertilizer and being located in Beitbridge, you are the best conduit through which fertilizers should come to Zimbabwe from South Africa. You are free to import. If you have any problems to import for your business, let me know so that we can facilitate and assist in that regard.
Senator Chipanga, thank you very much for your support for the
Bill and more importantly, for giving focus to the Special Economic Zones legislation that we enacted last year and also for the incentives that we have introduced through the 2017 National Budget. I have actually said in response and when I interact with those who are promoting special economic zones; I am saying, any investor who wants to come into the special economic zones and feels that the incentives that I offered in the 2017 Budget are inadequate, please come and we will talk. The objective here is to get serious investors into the special economic zones. All I am looking for at this stage is technology transfer. I am looking for capital, managerial skills and employment creation for our people. If I get that, make your money. I am also looking for export receipts to enhance foreign currency to the country. If I get that, make your profit and you go. I want to say anyone who is interested to come into SMEs, please let us know if there are any other incentives that you think we should as Government offer.
I have already responded Hon. Sen. Chipanga to the issue about SMEs, especially the registration and also the fact that I reduced the presumptive tax. I need also to point out that I am going to ring-fence revenues that come from presumptive tax to capitalize SEDCO that is the Government parastatal which lends money to SMEs. I want that money to be ring-fenced and it will not come to Treasury. It will go straight to support SEDCO in its capitalisation.
Senator Chief Charumbira, thank you again for your support but I just want to clarify one issue on your submission. You want us to extend the exemptions on donations to cover materials that maybe supported or given to schools and clinics that collapsed through this, it is not the same principle. What I think you want me to do, which I will look into if it is not there already, is to grant tax credits to companies that help to put up classroom blocks, donate library equipment to schools and help to repair schools. That is what I think you are talking about and it is something that we should look at. In fact, we are looking at this in the broader sense because when we talked about employment creation with Minister Zhuwao, especially youth employment, what came out clearly in our discussion was that we need to enhance skills. It is a matter which I have also discussed with my colleague here, Hon. Senator Hungwe. When we are looking at skills, we need to equip our youths with the necessary skills.
Just to give a bit of statistics. I think in any one year, something like 350 000 or thereabout pupils write O’ level and the A’ level, polytechnics and universities will probably account for 100 000, leaving something like 200 000 youths who have had a modicum of education but have no skills to talk about. So, we have been discussing and saying, and I am warming to that idea that we should adopt a policy where we have a vocational training college in each administrative district. That clearly is a tall order. We are talking about building workshops, hostels and a lot of things, so it is quite a mammoth task. So how can we link up the private sector to be able to say to a bank, please put up this vocational training centre in Beitbridge administrative district? We give them the specifications and the land we donate and it is either communal and then we say, what incentive do you want as a private player for doing that. These are some of the discussions and dialogue we should have with the private sector.
Madam President, you can imagine what the quantitative and qualitative leap that this economy can achieve if we do that. Obviously, in each administrative centre or district and vocational centre, we will take account of the local peculiarities of that place. In terms of imparting skills to our people, it will be phenomenal. Those are some of the ideas that we are talking and I am sure they will get support and traction.
Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungubane, thank you very much for the report on the administration of the HIV levy. We have improved efficiencies greatly and I am very pleased with the direction we are taking. For instance, we have now set up a team within the Accountant General’s office to peruse and study all auditors’ reports to see where there are inefficiencies or maladministration. We are now going to be in a position to respond to any of the auditors’ reports which were presented in the past. I think I will be able to do that by end of March and thanks to the team that we have set up. We are also considering installing in each of the ministries, certainly the big ministries, an internal auditor. This is basically to assist in the administration of our finances. We need to have value for every dollar that our taxpayers pay and we do not want abuse and fraud to be rampant within Government. So, we need to take those measures in order to correct that. I agree with you that we do not want to be too dependent on donors especially on key issues like health. I am hoping the health levy will play its part and we will see how it will operate.
The issue that we need to dwell on and talk about is domestic resource mobilisation. We have started that discussion within
Government and the pace is too slow but essentially, we do not have to be poor in this country. I think that is the bottom line given the range of minerals that we have but I want Hon. Senators to understand that yes, the wealth is there but it is underground. Until it is taken out of the ground, we are just as poor as someone who does not have those resources. It is important that we have policies that link up exploitation of those resources to capital and capital has its own demands. We need to be sensitive to those demands.
Again, it is a cost benefit analysis. If we think we are okay without that exploitation, we remain where we are. So, it is a matter of negotiations and being clear ourselves on those policies which promote exploitation of our resources. So, those are issues that we are tackling and obviously, I am disappointed that the diamond sector has not contributed what I had expected when I came in as Minister of Finance – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – In my first budget as substantive Minister in 2014, I had projected 13 million carats production. Throughout, I have not gotten anything more than 3 million carats and when you bear in mind that the Chiadzwa diamonds, their DNA structure is that 10% are gem and these are what they would sell at something like $80 and above per carat. Ten to twenty five per cent are near gem, and we are talking around $30 - $50 per carat. The rest, 75% are industrial which is around $8 - $10 per carat. We also need to understand that situation.
So, sometimes we enter into simplistic comparison with Botswana, Namibia or Angola. Botswana is 95% gem and so it is different, but notwithstanding, I should expect more support on the fiscus than I am getting right now. Minister Chidhakwa and I are working feverishly basically to sort out about the issue of resuming production in that area. The challenges were mainly to do with the policy that we took to consolidate and then there was litigation arising from that consolidation. We have now taken steps to engage those companies with a view to see whether we can amicably resolve those issues out of court. I hope that the efforts that we are making will be successful.
The issue raised by Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungubane about value addition and processing our minerals, I think something is already beginning to happen. We have been monitoring the undertakings made by platinum producers; Zimplats, Mimosa and so on. Zimplats has already achieved up to smelting, that is purifying up to 85%. Mimosa and others will follow and by January next year, we should be able to commission something along those lines. They will have progress to report to us. With respect to diamonds, we now have a diamond cutting and polishing that is being undertaken by Aurex - not to the extent of India of course, but clearly it is a very good step that we have taken. State of the art equipment was imported from India and they are now cutting and polishing diamonds as well as translating that cut and polished diamonds into jewellery. I would want to encourage Hon.
Senators when you travel; I think Aurex has got some workshops here. If you want jewellery go to Aurex whether you are looking for gold or diamonds or you want to engage whether you have found a new wife or husband. If you want to engage please visit, you will get it at very good prices.
I also thank Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa for the support and we work very hard to ensure that we have no bank failures and currently I can say that the financial services sector is very sound and stable. I am very pleased with the measures that we have taken to stabilise the financial service sectors. We have some challenges to do with what they charge with respect to interest but we are trying to engage them in a market friendly way. Hon. Sen. Chief Gampu, thank you very much for the support and we are also giving support, clearly we are seeking to give support to the health sector.
The point I want to make in this regard is we need to change the structure whereby I am a prisoner of the wage bill at 90% and above going to wages. I get into a situation where we cannot hire new doctors, nurses and teachers. It is not good for the future once we start on that premise where we train teachers and doctors for other countries. You are not taking into account the issue about replacement of those who are retiring. So, this is something that we are working on and I am sure that over time we should be able to overcome these challenges. With this response Madam President of the Senate, I now move that the Finance
Bill be read a second time. I thank you for your attention.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee stage: With leave forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H.B. 3, 2017]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 – 63 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE BILL [H.B. 3, 2017]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I therefore move, and I
thank Hon. Senators, for their support. I move that the Finance Bill
[H.B. 3, 2017] be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CURRENT STATUS OF VAT ON BASIC GOODS
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, you will
recall that in the 2017 National Budget, I proposed to introduce VAT at
a standard rate of 15% on products which include rice, margarine, cereals, maheu, potatoes and meat (pork, beef, fish and chicken).
- The basis for standard rating the products is mainly due to the need to rationalize the schedule of zero rated and exempt goods, in order to broaden the tax base and minimize the cost of tax administration.
- Zimbabwe, together with other SADC Member States has ratified the SADC Protocol on Finance and Investment. Under the Protocol, Member States are mandated to harmonise taxation matters and coordinate tax regimes.
- In an endeavor to harmonise taxation matters, the SADC region has developed VAT guidelines which enable Member State to sustain and enhance tax revenues on an equitable and efficient basis.
- Member States have, thus, agreed that the list of zero rated and exempt products should be streamlined, in order to achieve the following objectives:
- Broaden the tax base;
- Enhance revenue generation;
- Promote administrative efficiency;
- Minimize corruption;
- Ensure similarity among Members States; and,
- Enhance equity and fairness, among others.
- Madam President, in the SADC region, Zimbabwe has one of the longest lists of zero rated and exempt products. The list of zero rated and exempt products include, but not limited to the following:
- Grains such as maize and wheat;
- Mealie meal;
- Bread;
- Cooking oil;
- Salt;
- Milk;
- Fruits;
- Vegetables;
- Eggs;
- Inputs for manufacture of cooking oil;
- Soya beans;
- Protective clothing;
- Animal feeds and remedies;
- Pesticides;
- Fertilizers;
- Medical services;
- Selected pharmaceutical products;
- Domestic supply of electricity;
- Domestic supply of water; and,
- Supply of goods such as books, typewriters and maps for use by physically challenged persons; among others.
Mr. President Sir, countries such as Namibia, Lesotho, Malawi and Zambia have a minimum list of zero rated and exempt products. Such countries charge VAT on products such as rice, fresh milk, fruits, eggs and meat products among others.
So, we had imposed VAT to try to reduce our long list of zero rated and exempt products and it was to try to harmonise our taxation matter and also to coordinate our tax regimes. Following the stakeholder representations, concerns have been raised regarding potential informalisation due to perceived price increases, and it is because of those representations that I am proposing to shelve the implementation of SI 20 of 2017 which levies VAT on potatoes, rice, margarine, maheu and meat products.
This is to allow for further consultation with relevant stakeholders. I hope that Hon. Senators will also have an opportunity to give their input into this subject matter and also to carry out comparisons between us and other countries within SADC so that we try to go the route where we try to harmonise our taxation matters and our tax regimes. I thank you Mr. President Sir for the attention.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Senators may seek clarifications but we will not debate the Statement.
Thank you Hon. Minister.
HON. SENATOR CHIEF NGUNGUBANE: Thank you Mr.
President. I would want to welcome the move taken by the Minister that he has listened and will make further consultations. I want to seek clarification from the Minister. Minister, as you are aware that this SI 20 was supposed to have taken place on the 1st, and shops and supermarkets had gone ahead to increase the prices of those goods that you have indicated; what action are you going to take to correct that if any? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Hon. Senator
Chief Ngungubane. The clarification that I give is that there is no justification for increases of price. If an item or some goods are on the shelves, the price does not change. You only realise that the price is more when you get to the till. That is when they factor in and charge you the 15% VAT. So, the price should not change but they should change when you buy at the till when they charge you the 15%.
The price will be different from what it was on the shelf at the till. Where retailers have included the 15% VAT in the price on the shelf, it suggests mischief because it means when they get to the till, they charge you an additional 15%. So, if that is what has happened, it will be monitored, and we will make sure that it does not happen because the price on the shelf is their money. When they charge the 15% tax, that is ZIMRA’s money and it should not go into their pocket. The issue that we have been tracking and following is that sometimes retailers charge
15% VAT, but they do not remit to ZIMRA.
That is an offence and it will attract heavy penalties for such a practice. As I pointed out in my earlier discussion, the route we must take is fiscalising transactions by all major tax payers such as supermarkets and so on, so that ZIMRA has real time knowledge of transactions as they are being transacted. I thank you Mr. President Sir.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (HON. DR.
SEKERAMAYI), the Senate adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 7th February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock pm
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that I have received the Finance Bill [H.B. 3, 2017] from the National Assembly.
INVITATION TO A NETWORKING DINNER FOR COTTON
GROWERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also have to
inform the House that Members of Parliament from cotton growing areas are invited by the Cotton Company of Zimbabwe to a networking dinner on Wednesday the 15th of February, 2017 at 1800 hours at the Rainbow Towers Hotel. Members interested in attending the dinner should confirm attendance with Mr. M. Godzongere from the Public
Relations Department, office number 516 on the 5th floor, south wing at
Pax House not later than the end of the day on Thursday, the 9th of February, 2017.
SECOND READING
LAND COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 2A, 2016]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on the Second Reading of the Land Commission Bill [H. B. 2A, 2016].
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. I wish to debate the Land Commission Bill as one of the…
HON. SEN. MARAVA: On a point of order Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, what is
your point of order?
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Madam President, my point of order is on the very same Bill, the Land Commission Bill. The way it was introduced to this House, when I personally looked at the Bill and what was mentioned in this House, there is a lot to be desired. There seems to be a lot of disagreements. My wish is that we look at the Hansard first before we can continue with this second reading. Thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Unfortunately,
what you are requesting is unprocedural and cannot be granted. The Bill was passed in the Lower House and this House asked for some time to look at it and time was granted, so we have to continue with the debate.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I said thank you for giving me time to debate this Land Commission Bill. I happen to be one of the
Chairpersons who went out to consult the people and here is my report.
1. Introduction
Agricultural land is crucial resource in Zimbabwe given that the economy is agro-based. Approximately 70% of the population lives in rural areas and the majority derive their livelihoods and income from farming, livestock production and related activities. In Africa, 60% of the population is heavily dependent on agriculture and related activities. In the process, several continental conflicts and wars have been raging over the access and control of land and natural resources. Even in Zimbabwe, the Select Committees on Lands, Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development and that of Peace and Security observed during public consultations that the land question remains a very emotive one.
Since 1980, several land policies have been enacted to address the land question and another opportunity has availed itself for the Eighth Parliament to enact a law, which seeks to address challenges being faced by farmers particularly, beneficiaries of the fast-track reform process that began in 2000. Once these issues are addressed, it will go a long way in improving productivity, competitiveness and food security in the agricultural sector.
2. Background to the Land Question in Zimbabwe
Land conflicts in Zimbabwe began in 1893 through an uprising, after the Ndebele kingdom had been dispossessed of its land and relocated to Gwaai and Shangani reserves. The First and Second Chimurenga were launched by the black majority who sought to recover their lost land. Even after attaining independence, land remained heavily skewed in favour of the minority whites. There was slow progress in addressing the land imbalance due to lack of funding for the Government to buy the land and transfer it to the landless majority. As a result, there was a slowdown in the pace of land transfers in the first decade after independence. Naturally, a lot of landless Zimbabweans were disappointed by the slow pace of land re-distributed, leading to protests and occupations in the 1990s.
In 1998, following a breakdown of negotiations between
Zimbabwe and Britain and other financiers, Government began in earnest to enact legal provisions, through amendments to the Constitution, allowing for the compulsory acquisition of land without compensation. The fast-track land reform programme which began in 2000, yielded positive results in that by 2010 about 11,7 million hectares owned by approximately 4 500 white commercial farmers had been reduced to 3,4 million hectares, and transferred to hundreds of thousands of landless Zimbabweans.
It is important to note that the fast-track land reform programme was complex and gave rise to a number of challenges such as: double allocations, occupations without offer letters, forged offer letters, boundary disputes, settlers being denied access to their plots, sharing of infrastructure, compensation of former farmers, under-utilization of land as well as vandalism and theft of equipment. Another challenge was in the co-ordination of land allocations such variations on statistics on land beneficiaries between several institutions at district and national institutions. It is against this background that the 2013 Constitution was inscribed with clauses calling for the establishment of a Land Commission to address these challenges.
3. Methodology
In line with section 141 (b) of the Constitution which states that; “Parliament must ensure that interested parties are consulted about
Bills being considered by Parliament..”, the portfolio Committee on Lands, Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, together with the thematic Committee on Peace and Security conducted Public Hearings in all the ten provinces of the country. Participants at these public hearings included: representatives from farming associations, traditional leaders, women's groups, local authorities, representatives from wildlife conservancies, the youth and the elderly amongst others.
In addition, the select Committees attended a capacity building workshop on the Bill, where presentations were made by Permanent
Secretary of Lands and Rural Resettlement, representatives from the
Attorney General's Office, the Centre for Applied Research and Legal Services (CARL) and Commissioners from the Land Commission.
4 Findings
4.1 Independence of the Commission
Concern was raised regarding the 'independence' of the
Commission. The Commission is not an Executive Committee but will operate under the auspices of the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement. Section 6 (1) of the Bill highlights that the Commission should conduct its affairs impartially and independently, but this position is compromised by section 57 (1) of the Bill that states that the Minister may give policy directions to the Commission. Furthermore, section 57 (3) implores on the Commission “to take all necessary steps to comply with any direction given to it in terms of subsection (1)”
4.2 Selection Criteria of Commissioners
The process of selecting Commissioners is shrouded in secrecy and is not stated in the Bill or the Constitution. The select Committees of Parliament were informed that the selection process was the preserve of the Minister. Nobody knows the qualifications or expertise of these Commissioners that were appointed by the President in July 2016.
Section 296 (2) of the Constitution merely indicates that “members of the Zimbabwe Land Commission must be chosen for their integrity and competence in and knowledge and understanding of, the best practices in land management and administration and reflect the diversity of Zimbabwe's population, in particular its regional interests and gender balance”. The only clear position, is of the removal of the
Commissioners which is based on section 237 of the Constitution, which is the same process that is applied to independent Commissions established by Chapter 12.
4.3 Land Disputes
The select Committees of Parliament observed during the public hearing that the Commission has a huge workload in resolving land disputes. Most of these disputes have been politicized and were being exacerbated by corrupt officials in the Ministry of Lands. The land disputes took various forms and include:
- Sale of a piece of land to multiple persons, by land officers, ranging from US$3 000 to US$7 000;
- Double allocations and multiple farm ownership of land; iii. Displacement, threats, violence against initial occupiers of land by influential persons; iv. Desecration of heritage sites, sacred places, wetlands through uncoordinated land allocations.
- Disagreements on sharing of infrastructure such as tobacco barns, farm houses and water bodies; vi. Poor documentation or erasure of files or withdrawal of offer letters by the land officers; vii. Resettlement of persons on grazing land leading to challenges in productivity of livestock; viii. Disrespect of offer letters between disputants. A holder with a 99 year lease or permit is regarded as having more rights than a holder of an offer letter.
- Land allocations leading to congestion instead of decongestion in some areas, due to poor pegging and monitoring by land officers.
- Some District Land Committees contribute to land conflicts due to biased recommendations on land allocations;
- Traditional leaders were not being respected or consulted on land allocations. At times traditional leaders perpetrated land disputes through acts of nepotism and bias in land allocations.
- Inhabitants of an area not being given first preference in the allocation of land, but persons from other provinces were given priority. xiii. Disinheritance of vulnerable groups such as widows and orphans. xiii. The non-compensation of previous white farmers on improvements made on the land is leading to insecurity by new beneficiaries.
4.4. Security of Tenure
Farmers raised concerned that the Bill is silent on the issue of security of tenure. This is making it difficult for land beneficiaries to get investors or funding for agricultural activities. Furthermore, section 28 of the Bill makes it difficult for farmers to get investment in that it stipulates that “....an offer letter holder, lessee or permit holder shall not enter into a partnership for the working of his or her holding or portion of gazetted land without the consent in writing of the Minister”.
Farmers also highlighted that lack of funding and investment has led to under-utilization of land, an issue that will be investigated by the Commission in terms of section 297 (1) of the Constitution and section 21 of the Bill. Land beneficiaries expressed concern that there was high possibility of losing their land through land audits and farmers called upon the Commission to take into account all the factors leading to under-utilization of land.
4.5 Corporate Status of the Commission
Section 3 of the Bill, gives corporate status to the Commission with the capacity to sue and to be sued. However, section 58 of the Bill, seeks to protect Commissioners from legal action for the decisions taken in good faith and without gross negligence. Concern was raised that Commissioners should be held accountable for the decisions they take while in office, through legal proceedings, especially if they were prejudicial to the applicant or advantageous to Commissioners.
4.6 Land Tax
Section 56 of the Bill highlights that the Minister of Lands, after consultation with the Minister of Finance, may charge monthly or annul rentals to be paid by holders of land. Concern was raised that the levies were unjustifiable in that they did not take into account the agricultural activities and ecological regions of the country. An example was cited where livestock and wildlife producers located in ecological regions 4 and 5, in areas such as Matebeleland require more hectarage than those in crop production in region 1 and 2. Furthermore, there were calls that the Ministry of Lands should widen its consultations on the land tax and not just confide with the Minister of Finance. Other factors that needed to be taken into account in determining land taxes include; financial resources, climatic patterns, farming equipment at the disposal of the farmers. The Minister of Lands was accused of being insensitive to the plight of farmers, through the high rental charges.
4.7 Accessibility of the Commission
Section 59 of the Bill states that the Commission shall endeavour to establish offices at provincial, district and other administrative levels “.....as it considers fit for the better performance of its functions”. This provision should make it mandatory rather than leave it to the discretion of the Commission. Land holders are located in rural areas and most of them are struggling to get resources for their agricultural activities, hence it would prudent for the Commission to have offices located nearer to the affected than to be located in Harare, where there is little agricultural activity.
4.8 Classification of Agricultural Land
Section 72 of the Constitution defines agricultural land as that suitable for horticulture, viticulture, forestry, aquaculture, animal husbandry which includes keeping or breeding of livestock, game, poultry, animals or bees. Concern was raised that not much protection is given to biosphere areas located in places such as Honde Valley, Mana Pools and Middle Zambezi. These areas are protected under UNESCO conventions and should not be demarcated for land resettlement.
Furthermore, persons involved in wildlife farming are not given much support and recognition from Government Departments.
4.9 Gender Parity and Equality on Land Resources
In a book Beyond the Enclave, it is estimated that by 2003, under the A1 and A2 models, women constituted 18% and 12% respectively of the total land beneficiaries. The Select Committees of Parliament observed and heard of women being discriminated and dispossessed of land. Section 17 (1) ( c) of the Constitution states that “the State and all institutions and agencies of government at every level must take practical measures to ensure that women have access to resources, including land, on the basis of equality with men”.
Furthermore, section 297 (1) (c) implores on the Land Commission to make recommendations on the “elimination of all forms of unfair discrimination, particularly gender discrimination”. These constitutional provisions are in line with the African Charter on Human and Peoples Rights on the Rights of Women in Africa and the 2004
Solemn Declaration on Gender Equality in Africa, which calls for action to address gender inequalities including women's unequal access to land. Other vulnerable groups that are being disinherited or disregarded in land allocations include orphans and the disabled.
4.10 Compensation of Former White Farmers
Section 72 (3) of the Constitution stipulates that previous white farmers should be compensated for the improvements that were effected on the farms before acquisition. The Zimbabwe Farmers Union highlighted that the bulk of its membership cannot access finances and opportunities under public-private investment as the land currently under their occupation is classified as “disputed land”.
4.11 Database on Land Ownership
Concern was raised that the National Land Register was not credible. The Select Committees of Parliament heard of cases where records of offer letters issued by officials from the Ministry of Lands disappeared from the system. At the same time, withdrawals of offer letters, double allocations multiple farm allocations were common. Part 8 of the Bill is devoted to the administration of the Land Register. It is important that the Ministry receives adequate funding to develop a modern database, which is foolproof and reliable. It is through a credible database that some of the contentious disputes can be resolved.
5 Recommendations
- The status of the Land Commission should be upgraded to that of an Executive Commission, similar those Commissions and
Institutions listed under Chapters 12 and 13 of the Constitution. This will enable the Land Commission to work independently and with undue influence from the Executive or anybody.
- The selection criteria of Commissioners should be transparent and the process should be based on Section 237 (1) of the Constitution, where Parliament is also involved.
- Section 28 (1) should promote investment into the agricultural sector rather than hinder it.
- Land disputes need to be depoliticized, especially by policymakers to enable the Commission to find lasting solutions.
- Inhabitants of an area should be given first preference in land allocations before aspiring persons from other areas are taken into consideration.
- Traditional leaders should be consulted in the land allocations and in dispute resolution.
- The right to land of vulnerable groups such as women, orphans, elderly and the disabled need to be respected in line with the Constitution and other legal instruments.
- Corrupt land officers should be removed from the system, instead of transferring them to other provinces. This does not solve the problem.
- The Ministry of Lands should be given adequate resources to conduct surveys and pegging of land in order to resolve disputes associated with boundaries.
- The principle of 'one-person, one-farm' should be implemented through a state of the art database, with software that can detect multiple ownership.
- Land taxes should be calculated based on the ecological region and agricultural practices. At the same time, the taxes should be
gazetted after broad consultations that involve farmer associations and other interested stakeholders.
- Complainants should be allowed to sue and pierce the corporate veil of the Commission in the event that it is not happy with its decisions.
- Land rights for women should be removed from the private sphere of marriage and family and placed in the public domain of human rights. Traditional leaders should be at the forefront in leading this process.
- Previous white farmers need to be compensated for the improvements made on the farms so that the new owners can source investment and become productive. Therefore, Treasury, in the 2017 should set an allocation for the compensation of improvements on farms previously owned by white farmers.
- The Land Commission should be visible in the ten provinces of the country and this should be made mandatory. Hence Treasury should avail funding.
- The Commission must look into ways of making sure that infrastructure in the former white farms such as dams, irrigation infrastructure, and homesteads is shared equally be shared by communities and not monopolized by particular individuals. The Bill should be clear on the authority that regulates the use of such infrastructure. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Madam President. I want to
congratulate the Committee that is led by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri, that presented those findings after their visit into the country side to see what was happening on the ground and compared it with what is in the Bill. When you hear the contents of such a presentation one could be excused to think that it was written by the MDC. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- there is nothing to add or to subtract Madam President, that is perfect.
If the Bill does not encompass any of those recommendations then it is not worth supporting because it is solid and it takes care of women, the disabled and justice and fairness in lad distribution. There is nothing to add on to it. The chiefs like some of us have always argued are the owners of the land in Zimbabwe. - [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] - the land does not belong to the Government of this country because Governments come and go but the chiefs are there to stay. For the sake of continuity, avoiding future quarrels and fights with land owners, the last word must come from the chief that a person is welcome to stay where they are – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- That is the only way those families can ever be secure. Without the agreement of the chief, no matter what you do - even if we are to pass it in this House, in years to come, those people will be thrown out of the land. To get proper security, get the nod from the chief. It does not matter then whether you come from Malawi or you are white, if the chief from Chiweshe, says yes you can stay here, that is the one that stays – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- not what a party political Government said. So let us respect the owners of the land. Let us have them working side by side with the Commission and I can assure you that at last, the land problem in Zimbabwe will have been resolved permanently. I really want to thank Senator Mumvuri for the presentation, especially on how we distribute land. Let us do it using modern techniques. Let us use the
Land Commission who are trained to say at what point a place is so that you are not moved from point to point. Let everything be done professionally. Let us use software that will always say at the correct thing so that there are no fights in future. Let us avoid multiple ownership of land. No one is entitled to more than one farm but can only have so much.
There are so many people in Zimbabwe and if we are all to have ten farms each, there would not be enough land for everyone. So, it does not matter who you are, but one thing I would have added is that we should have a cap on the size of farms. Do not let a person own acres and acres that you can drive for one hour still in one farm. Let us have a cap on the size of farms and let each person get their piece of land regardless of their party political beliefs. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you very much Madam
President. With your permission, can I refer to my scribbled notes? Thank you very much for this opportunity. I am running short of words when it comes to this document which I am holding. I do not know how it was drafted, but it leaves a lot to be desired. I have got five issues only. When I went through this Bill, it is short of a lot of important issues. The first and most important issue is that one of who should be the owners of the Bill, the traditional leaders, the chiefs. This Bill is completely silent about them.
When I read through, I was looking and I thought probably I will come to a Clause where the chiefs are talked about. I thought they were going to appear under Clause 21, Clause 23, and Clause 36 but there was nothing. When I came to the last page, there was nothing about the traditional leaders. We are the ones who usually shout on top of our voices that Zimbabwe respects their culture, tradition and history. Who is history without a chief and a traditional leader? – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- Where is the guidance without the traditional leaders? What is really happening Madam President when we avoid them completely.
What is happening is not failure of understanding, it is deliberate.
Whoever was drafting or writing this Bill did it deliberately. Is it
because they wanted to hear what the chiefs would say or what would come from the mouths of the chiefs? I do not understand because traditional leaders know that they should be the leaders. If the leaders do not know them, at least involve them in this Commission. This is a sad situation Madam President because without these traditional leaders, who are our identity, then there is nothing.
Even the highest chair here Madam President. You come from a certain area, your chitupa or your I.D. has got a surname and a place of birth, a chief and a village. Never mind how women look down upon them, they are still leaders. Do not forget what happened here. It happened when VIDCO chairpersons once allocated land when the village head was there and what happened, the citizens of Zimbabwe tightly remained anchored with their chiefs. I am happy that the Government realised it later and they said something that should not be said that we are giving the chiefs their powers back. Ah, where had it gone to?
Madam President, my second point is on presidential interferences. While we respect our President and Ministers, they have got a lot on their hands. They can do with that. They should not interfere too much and they should not fail the Zimbabwean population by saying that we have got a Commission when we have got a power map. It is a power map and it is not a Commission. If you go through this Bill Madam
President, you will agree with me that this is power being claimed by the
Minister so that he can continue oppressing the Commission. The Commission has got nothing to claim or to take home with on this document.
They are just a word to be mentioned and they are not recognised even a little bit. If you look at Clause 6, it guarantees independence of the Commission, and what happens? Schedule 5(b) 6, the President can appoint, disappoint, suspend and fill vacancies of the Commission. They have no job whatsoever. This Commission should not even be mentioned. They are not there. Why do they not give them another name in the department of Ministry of Lands, not Commission? It is a mismatch.
Madam President, it is contradictory because in terms of independence, the Bill should ensure independence of the Commission. At least it would not have gone off point. Another point is that this whole document is about sprucing up the Minister’s powers. The Minister has got the power to fire the Commission, appoint
Commissioners and not even mentioning the Commission that we are talking about and yet, the document is called the Lands Commission which is supposed to be independent. There is no in dependence whatsoever. That is why I had asked for us to look at the Hansard first. I thought probably I was looking at the wrong staff, but it is the correct
staff.
On Clause 21, it is the Minister who makes the regulations and it is the Minister who fires, limits the size of the land and not only farming land, but Zimbabwean land. He can come to the village and start limiting the pieces of land that is owned by the villagers. What type of a Commission is this Madam President? On Clause 35, the Minister has got the power to vary the agricultural land...
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Madam President, point of order.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Clause 57, Madam President, this
document talks a lot about legal issues and there is talk of all other employees of the Commission, office bearers of the Commission, but there is no talk of the lawyers or legally able people who know how to respond and yet there are crimes that are to be committed by people in this Chapter, which can cause them some jail terms. The Commission is not even advised of who to hire in order to look after the interest of the people who might make mistakes in implementing this thing.
So Madam President, my point number five is that there should be no discrimination in terms of land allocation. You find that Clause 26 discriminates...
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, order.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Earlier on I had stood up on a point
of order but the Hon. Senator was still whispering to you. I think it is like we have gone into Committee now, because he is going clause by clause.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: That is why I had
called a point of order. You are now discussing. You cannot do that. We are just debating in general.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I hear you Madam President. I accept your guidance. That is why you are here. Thank you Madam President. I will not take three more minutes of your time, Madam President, but this is very important because there is serious talk in this Bill about discrimination. Our Constitution is 100% against discrimination, discrimination in any form, be it gender, and be it colour.
Discrimination is not encouraged in our Constitution, Madam President, what is happening in our Bill is that it discriminates against the poor whereby, the rich are being promised they can get as much land as they like as long as they can pay for it. They can do anything, as long as they can run the farm. These rich people who are being advantaged, Madam President, some of them have corruptly got their land, they have corruptly got their money and why should the Government continue looking after them because if you want to look at that, look at Clause 25,
Madam President. It is the one…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We are not
looking into Clauses.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Alright, I will not quote it, Madam President. That is why I am insisting that we should be looked at equally. When somebody is talking about the truth, let us all echo that truth and we will all have Madam President’s ear, like we have had your ear. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHISUNGA: Thank you very much
Madam President for giving me the opportunity to respond to this Bill. I say thank you to the Minister for fulfilling what was requested by His
Excellency when opening this Session when he talked about the Land Commission Bill and as a result, we are going to pass this Bill because it is very positive.
I also thank Hon. Senator Mumvuri for the report which he gave which was very detailed. He touched on all aspects of the Bill. But I want to make a contribution on the people who were settled on the farms. We realise that these people do not have traditional leaders such as village heads or chiefs and yet when we visit those areas, we will find there have been some traditional leaders who have been installed. This shows that traditional chiefs should also be leading their people because they are the people who are looking after the people. When we have the traditional leaders leading their people, they will enforce the protection of the environment and even observing those sacred places and areas in any place.
We have noticed that if people do not have chiefs in their area, if they are told of the sacred day in the African tradition which is called Chisi, the people in the farms will always tell you that they have nothing to do with the sacred day because they are in farms. We know that as Zimbabweans, we rely very much upon our traditional leaders because the land belongs to them and there can be no progress if we exclude the chiefs.
I realise that in this Land Commission Bill, we do not have a representative of the chiefs because when people are resettled, they should be aware that they have strayed in chief so and so’s area yet you realise that during the colonial era, the colonialists used to observe the powers and jurisdiction of the chiefs and they gave them what was due to them. Contrary to that, the independent Government is now neglecting the chiefs, looking down upon the chiefs. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CARTER: Thank you Madam President. The Land Commission Bill is much needed at this time. In the interest of development, it is required to bring finality to the land reform. We had hoped that this Commission would bring public transparency, accountability and security of tenure. Alas, it does not do these things.
These three words; transparency, accountability and security of tenure if implemented, can turn a country around. They can change poverty into prosperity.
Sadly, the Land Commission, through the Minister, increases Government control of agricultural land. More control means less public accountability and transparency. The tenure systems are getting more complicated and as far as I can see, none is supported by the banks. We were advised in this House that the 99 year leases are bankable, but this has not been confirmed by any bank. There has been no public statement, so it is still shrouded in confusion.
Commercial agriculture needs to be underpinned by the banks which this Bill fails to acknowledge. The Minister has extraordinary power in this Bill. He may cancel any title deeds he chooses to and he may acquire land on behalf of the State. He may then lease, sell or in fact, do anything he likes with the land. He is only accountable to the President, but the accountability is not to the public. No owner or occupier of land may enter a share cropping agreement with another person or company without the approval of the Minister. The Minister’s consent is also required for all partnerships by holders of offer letters, leases or permits.
This is not a business friendly Bill. In fact, this Bill goes a step backwards from a modern free democratic state to feudal control. Government talks about the ease of doing business as being important for the country. They talk about it, but can you imagine every cropping agreement, every partnership proposal must be sent to the Minister for approval. The Government truly does not trust its own people.
This Bill is framed by the Land Reform, which is underpinned by the Constitution, which in Section 21(2) restricts the right of individuals who are not indigenous citizens to own, lease or occupy State land. For the record, as a white person, I must protest that this Clause is discriminatory. Can a white person not be indigenous? In our Constitution, citizens are separated from indigenous people on a racial basis which is unconstitutional and will eventually be challenged. This discrimination is based on the same principle as applied by the Smith
Government against black people. Do two wrongs make a right?
About a thousand ex-white farmers are sitting poverty stricken in the towns around Zimbabwe. They have not been paid for their farms and they are not allowed to farm because they are white. They are second class citizens in their own land, but the main victims of the land reform were the ex-farm workers. I do not see anything in the Land Commission Bill referring to them. The irony of the Land Reform is that it has actually displaced 1.4 million people, being about half a million farm workers and their families with just under 300 000 new
settlers.
There were more people displaced than they were settled. Also, the ex-farm workers were displaced without provision of any alternative living options. Zimbabwe stands unaligned to the United Nations Charter in this regard.
This Commission does not correct the mistakes of the past and therefore, will not improve anything. It will be expensive and continue to strangle the citizens of Zimbabwe with ever increasing costs.
The reality is that politics continues to dominate economics. If our friends on the other side of this august House continue to allow this economic oppression of Zimbabweans to continue, we will become a failed state. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. I would like to add a few contributions to this Bill. I am very grateful for the introduction of this Bill. As far as I am concerned, this is an excellent Bill which should pass through.
Minister, I am very grateful for what you did because you have clarified the idea of compensation especially stating the things which are supposed to be compensated for; for example, the improvements done by commercial farmers. You have stated categorically what is going to be taken into account. The former white farm owners now know that what they are going to be compensated for is not the land but the improvements they made in those areas.
Speakers who spoke before me said that even before colonial times, the land was under the chiefs. Even when the land was designated by the colonial whites, they made false agreements with the chiefs, hence we have come to the end of this Bill. We are now talking about the enactment of the Land Commission Bill which is aimed at creating progress and development of Zimbabwe.
Even if the Constitution is silent on the membership into the Land Commission, I believe that you are part of the national leadership. In this Bill, Hon. Minister, may we please put qualifications of people who are supposed to be included in this Bill? The people who are supposed to be included are chiefs. They should be part of this Land Commission. We will be very grateful even if one or two chiefs are included and the people of Zimbabwe will be very grateful.
Madam President, when we are talking about land distribution in Zimbabwe, our culture as Africans, we are aware of the fact that all the land in terms of the Constitution is under the President. We are also aware that the President may have the land under him as the President of the country but he comes from a chiefdom somewhere and has great respect of the chiefs. Since we will have been empowered through this Commission, the President is not going to dictate that members of the Land Commission should include chiefs. I am saying, Minister, you have been empowered and you know we have to retain and preserve our culture; hence we should also carry out our culture and uphold it in land distribution.
What pleases me is that you belong to the chieftainship of Zimbabwe because you are of the eland clan. You understand what I am talking about with respect to powers of the chiefs in land redistribution. It shows that we should be included in this programme. We are begging you to chiefs you in the Land Commission. Remember, we have a lot of people who need to be recognised, the women, youths and other sectors. Land was annexed from the chiefs but now that we are an independent Zimbabwe, we need to empower our chiefs. We should give them what is due to them according to our culture and tradition.
I remember making a contribution during the Constitution making process. I said it was good for the present generation but the next generation, when we are all gone; youths will be asking as to who will be farming at that particular place we were given despite the grey hair and the fact that that person is old. They will be asking where that person is coming from. You are somebody who is farming in Mberengwa but you come from Chivhu. People will be asking what happened. At this moment, chiefs will have to be brought into the picture so that they will know who will be selected to come into that area because they know the people who have shortage of land.
At the moment, we have many political fights on the land issue. Some people are saying, they have come there because they come from the people of Charumbira and yet when they go to the Musarurwa area, they do not recognise that because they simply say, I have moved into this new place and I have nothing to do with that chief.
In the past, when people relocated or migrated from one chiefdom to the other, the chief where they came from would give them some word of recommendation that, please accept these people coming from my area. The chief would also talk about their cultures and other things.
I am saying, since we are now the Senate, the Minister should also be serious about this issue and we will have peace in the country. We will also realise that when there are no rains in the country, there will be drought. We go back to the chiefs and show them that they are an essential part of our culture hence we have these heavy rains because we went and asked our chiefs to perform cultural rituals. Therefore, it shows that we recognise the importance of our chiefs in our culture. The Lord Almighty is also aware of the presence of these chiefs because they come from him.
Chiefs sometimes no longer have land. I am not blaming the Minister or anyone else but I am saying, the problem is with the laws of the country. We have a chief who is going to beg for assistance in his area and that Chief may also beg to be given land in an area which used to fall under his jurisdiction. Powers have been vested in the Provincial Administrators or the District Administrators.
We need to be open; we need to tell the truth about the land issue in the country. We noticed that at times in Chief Musarurwa’s area, the chief was not allocated land but maybe one of his offspring was allocated land. What I am emphasizing is, it is not the chief who benefited hence our call that in the Land Distribution Commission, the chiefs should be included. During that process, they will also call for the inclusion of chiefs in the land distribution. I thank the Minister for the sterling effort made in the process of the land distribution and we are about to conclude that. We know when this country was taken by the colonialists; they were demarcating land riding on horses. When the horse was tired they would turn but we are saying all that is going to be rectified.
Madam President, what the Constitution says and the current issues are calling for alignment of the Constitution with the prevailing situation. We say the chiefs should be given those powers which should be equal powers both in the land distribution and Constitution so that when they are operating, there will not be conflict of interest. We know that these two institutions have different powers. We have read the
Constitution and we have noted that there is some duplication of services between the Ministry and the Land Commission. We should align these laws to the prevailing situation and avoid duplication of service.
Biblically talking, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar so that we do not have any struggles for this finer resource. We are Zimbabweans clamouring for the progress and development of our country. Hence, I am begging this august House to give powers to the chiefs because they deserve that. I believe that if we follow our cultural way, we know Zimbabwe is an agro-based economy and it shows we are very important.
I was invited at a certain farm where people were failing to carry out their own farming projects because the tractor would get stuck in the mud. Whatever form of mechanism they tried to use, there would definitely be no progress because they were fighting against the culture and tradition of the people. When they invited me, I said okay, I understand you have a problem but please go to the District
Administrator but they had nowhere to go. I then ate a humble pie and went to Ngezi farm and performed the rituals. The farm is owned by Mr.
Mazaiwana. We corrected the conflict through performing our rituals. Since we performed those rituals, the farmer has been able to carry on with his business in peace and progressively. Therefore, the land issue is an important one. If we rectify this anomaly today, we will not have problems with the future generation. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me the opportunity to make a contribution on this Land Commission Bill. I understood what was said by the previous speakers and what has been done by the Committee which had public hearings in various parts of the country. I only have one problem which I think should be corrected.
The Land Commission has been highly centralised. In this Commission, the chiefs and rural authorities are not included. What worries me is, who is going to talk about the interests of the people in a particular area if we do not have the chiefs or the administrators of that area. I am begging the Minister to go back to the drawing board, remove all these anomalies, take corrective measures and be proactive because when these people go to these areas, they should know that they need the assistance and opinion of the chiefs and local authorities.
We know through our history that when we had these farms, these were areas which were previously under the traditional leaders. We are saying they need to be given their powers. Even local authorities that have been empowered to run those areas are also surprised to see people migrating from other areas without their knowledge or consultation. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIDUKU: Thank you Madam President
for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. If we look in this august House, we are all citizens of Zimbabwe. We come from Africa and we are aware of our traditions and culture as the African people of Zimbabwe. Contrary to that, we have some people who get surprised and mesmerized that when we are talking about land, we should include the chiefs because when one is asked where they come from, they will tell you I come from Chief Charumbira’s area and my village head is Headman Sipambi.
What we are saying, if I may make this parable. Your cow is stolen from your village and somebody recovers that beast. They tell you we have recovered your beast but before it can be handed over to you, that beast is cut into pieces and people start sharing the carcass in your presence and you are not given anything. How do you feel when such a cruel aspect has been done to you? It is so painful and also painful to the chiefs who were the original owners of these areas. Even when we were making consultations with the people, they were telling us that the land belonged to the chiefs.
As a chief, sometimes you have to eat a humble pie and beg for allocation of land. At times you are given some pathetic piece of land. What is surprising is that there is somebody who does not even come from your area who is given a very large piece of land. When you ask for some pieces of land to be distributed to people from your area, you are told they cannot be given that land because it will have been allocated to somebody who comes far from that area yet the citizens of that area have no access to the land. I think that is wrong.
I have also heard my fellow Members of Parliament calling for one chief only into this Land Commission. My suggestion is that we need at least 50% to be chiefs and others ordinary people because if you do not do that the chiefs’ opinions are going to be overpowered by the people. The chiefs represent people from all over Zimbabwe. When the chiefs hear that the land has been resuscitated and redistributed but still the chiefs are not included; it will be like a parable whereby your beast has been stolen from you and when it is recovered you are only told that your beast has been recovered but people slaughtered it and distributed the carcass amongst themselves without giving you anything.
When people look at the chiefs, they are more than the human stature which we are looking at. They have spiritual powers endowed to them by the Almighty. As chiefs, we are not interested in political power but all we want is to play the oversight role especially when we are talking of land redistribution. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President of the
Senate. First and foremost, I want to register with the Minister that we have waited many years for this Bill and as we waited, I thought that the Executive was putting icing on a product that will come out - yotapira to everybody else, this is what I thought. Unfortunately, it does not tapira to that extend. Second point is, when my colleague stood up here to request that we wait until we see the Hansard, there was a gap in the presentation of the Bill and the Minister must request the Senators that in future the Second Reading is made appetising and understood by Senators for us to contribute more meaningfully.
Luckily, for us the presentation by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri did fill in that gap and I personally feel ameliorated in terms of the grief that I had in terms of the presentation that we had had. Let us start off by saying that the work of the Commission will be made easier and much productive if we address things like corruption in the ministry; the disappearance of files and so on. Your Commission will be able to function slightly to expectation. The next thing I will touch on and I paraphrase all my comments is depoliticisation of land. We had expected that in terms of the official statement, the land issue would have been concluded before 2010, I think if I am not mistaken. It has gone on and it appears that land continues to be politicised. Let us take off the economic factors out of politics; I know you cannot take them off completely. Let us de-politicise our economic development which land is and make it a factor of productivity, development and increasing our GDP.
The fourth thing I want to register is the issue on traditional leaders. I know very well, maybe more so in this part of the region that when we fought for this land, when the fighters came to the area they consulted the traditional systems svikiro, Chiefs and so on – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – It is critical for us to avoid probably a further fight over this land to remember those people who initiated the deliverance of this land.
The next thing I want to talk about is the land tax. Minister, I am a bit perplexed, I thought when you bought your house you are not like somebody who rents. You pay your premium in purchasing and you are done then you pay your rates. I do not understand why the land tax is extended to everybody, including those who have bought their farms because we thought it was chapter closed. If it is deemed by Government that it is necessary for those people to pay a land tax, I think it should be less severe or it should be so structured that it is not at the same rate as people who are renting land. Mistakenly, I understand that we are trying to build resources in order to be able to compensate some of the people who lost their development factor when land was occupied. If that is correct, I am saying those who have bought land have actually contributed to that fund and if they are required to contribute further, they should be actually be contributing at a lesser structure.
Last week, I raised the issue of prioritising local people in the land allocation and it is my hope that the new Commission will carry forward that idea. What we do not want is to appoint a Land Commission and think that we are concluding a chapter in the issue our land. Meanwhile, the chapter is unconcluded; you know the repercussions of lack of closure. We would like some of these things to be brought to closure.
Somebody did talk about capping the size of farms. I think it is a noble idea and I am aware that we have taken as a country many trips including one to Brazil many years ago. When we came back I read in the papers that there had been a lot of extensive research or findings into land sizes. I think certainly certain farms are beyond expectation in terms of size and it is important to make sure that on the basis of the recommendations of the Commission, under whose purview, I think that would come in when that issue is addressed.
I also want to agree with the people who are saying the chiefs have been left out of the Commission. I will not dwell on that much but I actually propose that when we get to Committee Stage, I am not too sure of the correct procedure but we have an amendment. It is not good to talk here and say the future generations will understand that chiefs were part of the system. We want the chiefs to be made here and now, part of the system. They are our chiefs, my chief sits here, I own a commercial land and he knows, I have known that before I do anything I go and consult the chief even if he is perceived in commercial areas as a nonactor. I have personally known that he is an inalienable actor in the land process. So, my suggestion is that let us include here and now the chiefs. Minister, I am sure that the status will be enhanced; it will not be lessened if you acquiesce to that request.
Last and maybe not least, we need to protect the independence of this Commission. It is one thing to legislate for the Commission and in terms of the Act, I would say semi-independence, I am not convinced reading through Act that the Commission is totally independent. It is one thing to legislate and it is another to be seen to be making the Commission independent, absolutely important. We have seen Commissions appearing to be tossed around and we think that it compromises the intention, personality of the Commissioners and it comprises Government because they set this thing and tell us it is independent and operationally we see a semi autonomous body. We kindly request and I am sure that Minister it is within your purview to ensure that you Commission when it becomes functional - is very independent. Madam President with those remarks I thank you. – [HON.
SENATORS. Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I thank you Madam President. I would
want to thank all the Speakers before me and the Minister who has brought in this Bill. In my contributions I want to add the role of the chiefs. I was crafting the definition of the chiefs that who is a chief and the criteria? I have seen that on the chiefs there is the power of God. I have seen that if you want to be called a chief you should have subjects under you. For one to be called a chief you should have the land and also a lot of subjects under him, as well as the support of the ancestors.
We want to teach each other on the role of the chiefs because one of the elements of being a chief is land, without land there is no chief. So, my plea to you Minister, is that and also what the others have said I think you should take it seriously that you should include chiefs in your Commission freely. What I am seeing is that the Executive - it looks like they do not trust these chiefs or there is something they want to protect which we do not know. Also, Minister, if you look at this Land Commission people were thinking that the Commission should be independent without being controlled by the Executive. But, the Bill as it is it shows that there is a lot of controlling and micro management of the Commission.
What is causing that? We took our land back, the land is now referred to as the state land and no one can play around with the land of Zimbabwe. So, what is it that you want to protect I think the Minister should tell us because we thought the people who were going to be Commissioners are the people of Zimbabwe, men and women of Zimbabwe - people who have integrity and who know about the land. If we give them the powers to look into our land what do we lose?
When we travelled people were saying that they wanted to own the land. All the people that have land they want some form of ownership that even if I die I will leave the land to the children. The land is enough for all of us in Zimbabwe. Even if you give people we all want farms in here because everyone will be happy that they have farms. We can till that land so you must look into those title deeds. It was a problem before we took the land but now it is our cake -we own it so, we should share the land. We should give people title deeds and we can go to banks and get some loans.
Our land is equivalent to diamonds, it is a mineral resource and is more than diamonds. Land like that in Chegutu, it is like a diamond and we should put value on that land. Even if you go on the stock market land can gain a lot of money. Lets us create investment around the land so that people will farm and a lot of wealth is created from there. We can even put value on cattle that is farmed there because the land is ours, it is no longer going back to the Whites and we agreed in our Constitution that the issue of land is irreversible.
There is no-one in Zimbabwe who is against the issue of land in Zimbabwe. Do not be fooled no-one is against the fact that land has come. Land is like a child who is born out of rape it is very bad but that nephew is my child I still love that child and when I think of the rape I will be angry but I do not hate the child. We want to give the Minister confidence that the land is now ours. The person who owns land in Zimbabwe owns it legally even if they are White or Indians, they get the land by following the processes provided in our laws of Zimbabwe, including the Executive and the judiciary you should loosen it a bit. There are other things in the Bill which are very good. I think you have included what the people were talking about that there should be transparency in this Bill. We want to thank you for that. Madam President, with those few words I want to thank you.
HON. SEN. NEBIRI: Thank you Madam President. I would also make my addition with this Bill which in this House and we talk about this Land Commission Bill it is very important and it has been introduced by the Minister whom I can say he is the one of the traditional leaders in this country. I will make my contribution regarding the composition or the membership of this Land Commission. I am saying whether they are 10 or 15 members I am calling for 50% memberships including that of chiefs. I am saying this is good but it is not enough but I am calling that the chairperson of this Land Commission should be a traditional leader or a Chief because if you do not do that you will be making a mistake.
I am saying 75% is rural and we have agreed that land is under the chiefs and therefore, it means the chief should have the power of heading this Commission. I am advising the Minister to have a look back, we have the provincial chiefs council, the district council and all the areas and we will ask the Minister whether the Minister has ever has the chance of getting through those boards and we will smell that the Minister did not have the chance of interacting with the chiefs because we would have given him the advice and also our input and advice on how they could go about the programme on the Land Distribution. Each province would be giving its input but unfortunately; the Minister did not make enough contacts - let me now turn to offer letters. This is a very good idea, but it is creating misunderstandings amongst the people because some people have had these offer letters which had been withdrawn. Some of these people whose offer letters had been withdrawn include people like Chief Kasekete. Some negative rumours have been spread about the chief and the offer letter was withdrawn.
I am advising you Minister that before you withdraw any offer letter from anybody, regardless of their social status, please make inquiries and investigations with the chiefs and they will give you enough evidence to make a judgement on whether to withdraw or retain that offer letter. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Madam President. I would
like to take this opportunity to show my gratitude to the Minister for introducing this Land Bill. We know that the main reason is that the people of Zimbabwe went to the war of liberation in order to reclaim their land. What is pleasing about this Bill is we have shown that as Members of this august Senate, we are mature people because of the way we are contributing. I am grateful for what is done by our traditional leaders. When we look backwards, we had some people amongst us who were not aware of the status of the chiefs, even those who are in this august House. But now, we are speaking the same language. They now understand the importance of the chiefs.
I am so glad because we are now aware that the land in Zimbabwe solely belongs to the people of Zimbabwe. These are the people who were advising the youngsters and persuading them to go and fight for the liberation of this country. I am begging the Minister that whenever he is going to nominate the Land Commissioners, he should include the chiefs because when they are included in this Commission, they will be able to give ways and means of allocating this land because they know some sacred places or some places which are special.
If we look at times where we live where we do not have areas under the jurisdiction of the chiefs, but we have areas such as Marange and other towns. In those areas, they have people who are building on some sacred grounds whereby if somebody builds a house on that area, they are told that that house is haunted and they may not be able to stay in that House.
I am saying when we look at some of the Commissioners; they do not understand fully the task at hand. The Bill which we are talking about is important because some of the people who are included are not aware of their roles. They are proud of their education or they have been to all those overseas areas. We need people who can relate and associate with the history of Zimbabwe and what it means. We will keep on empowering you because we know that Zimbabwe was liberated through the armed struggle and we will work under the guidance of the Head of State. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. D. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Hon. President of
the Senate for giving me this opportunity to add my views on the Land
Commission Bill. I would like to say a few things concerning this issue. I have four things that I want to lay down. Firstly, it has been said that there are 18 women who have been given places to make sure that they have land. This land was fought for by everyone and women were there in the struggle as well. Therefore, women should be given land like others.
Another aspect that I would want to bring up is that when land is being distributed, we have already said that the local people should be considered first and it will be good if they are given and considered first so that the chief in that area will identify his people who do not have land. It should be avoided that people move from different areas to come and occupy land when the chief is not aware. What also happens is that in the near future, our chief will not be respected because the people who are brought to their villages will refuse to respect them and to be under their authority.
I remember that some time ago, my aunt got married in
Mberengwa from Plumtree, Chief Mpini’s area. I remember that the chief in Mberengwa was informed that there was a chief’s daughter who had come to his village. It so happened that in Plumtree and Mberengwa, both of them knew that the marriage had taken place and there was a relationship. People should not come without the chief’s knowledge. The Hon. Minister responsible for the Land Commission should take note of that. People should not just move to new areas and they should make sure that they are udder the authority of the chief in that area.
We want our children and our grand children to respect our origin and to respect our chiefs and for them to know that chiefs are important. When we work with people who are from different areas, I have worked under evaluation. I know that instead of people coming properly; they just come without the chief’s knowledge. They do not know that they should come properly and be welcomed. When they are brought in properly, they will be introduced to the chief and they will be told of the values that the people should follow.
With those few words, I would like to ask our chiefs not to just watch what is happening. People should not fight for land and local people should be considered first in the distribution of land. Hon. Minister, we plead with you that such things should not happen so that we live together in love because what makes us fight are Ministers who just put us in places where we do not belong. That is where I would like to end. May the land be distributed fairly and may people respect our origins and our chiefs because we know what to do and we know the values to follow. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President of the Senate for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution regarding the inclusion of the chiefs by this august House. We realise that Minister, most of the Speakers in this House have talked about the inclusion of Ministers in the Land Commission.
My second point is that, let us not hasten the passing of this Bill and let it not be called a fast tracked Bill. We need to be careful with the way we look at it because the Bill is about the war of liberation, when the people of Zimbabwe went to war so that they could liberate their land which had been taken over by the colonialist.
As stated by Hon. Carter, this Bill should be looked at as a Bill which is going to remove all the anomalies in the land distribution process because if we do not do that, the future generation will be laying blame on us. When we are talking of an independent Commission, we are definitely calling for an independent body which should not be influenced even by the Minister because when we talk about the independence of the Commission and yet talk about the powers of the Ministers, that is you suppressing the powers, so the Commission has no role to play. When we talk about this land distribution, we need to attract the attention of the people and also possess the programme because if we do not correct that, people will never have that confidence in owning that piece of legislature. Therefore, what we need to do is not to simply pass this Bill, but we need to be careful about the suggestions made by this House.
The chiefs who are in this august House also have Chief’s Councils in the provinces that elected them. Therefore, these chiefs need to go and consult with their constituents and therefore, if you are given that chance, come back and we will be very much happy. Minister, I am begging you, please do not fast track this Bill. I beg you, do not fast track this Bill.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. The previous speakers have already said what I wanted to say. What I can say right now to you, Hon. Minister is, it has been mentioned before that women are important. It is vital that they also get land. What we also want Hon. Minister is that women also be registered in the farms which are given to their husbands so that even when the spouses pass on, the women can be able to be owners of those farms.
Again, they have spoken about the disabled. It has been said that the disabled, because of what they are, people would think that they are not able to own farms. Just as it is, women are also able to have farms. The men are the owners of the farms, but much of the work that is done on these farms is done by the women. Women do the planting and they do everything. What the men only do is cellphone farming and ask what goes on around the farm. Therefore, we hope that women will be put into consideration in the distribution of land.
Mr. President, it is said that many people who are rich are the ones who have, for example 19 or even 10 farms each. We hope that before we even pass this Bill, that issue should be addressed and properly considered. I believe that you know, Hon. Minister, how many people have more than one farm. We hope that this Bill will not be passed before this issue is looked into because there are some people who are greedy. They want to have it all. You find that there are people in farms in Beitbridge where they will be farming oranges and at the same time farming in many other places around Zimbabwe because they want to do so many different things since different provinces are conducive for different plants.
Hon. Minister, we do hope that each and everyone will at least get a farm where they come from. It is very painful, Hon. Minister, to find out that someone from Tsholothso has a farm in Hurungwe. One would question how they moved from Tsholotsho to Hurungwe. Are there no people in Hurungwe? Do they not have children? We do hope that such issues, through you Mr. President that this issue will be looked into. We do not want such things to be happening. However, we are speaking about it because they do exist. What has caused this to happen is that our chiefs are looked down upon. It is very rare for a chief in Hurungwe to consider giving land to somebody from Tsholotsho as it is impossible for them to know them. It is important for our chiefs to know their own people to avoid such issues. That is why we have realised that people no longer respect the chiefs because people from their areas do not know their chiefs and they do not even know their own values. Some of these chiefs do not even know of our own values. We would like to thank the chiefs who take note of our values
Of late, there is a story that happened of chiefs who stood up against a person who had been given a farm in an area where they do not belong. They stood up and said that they also have people who deserved that farm. Hon. Minister, I was so happy because they succeeded. It may happen that as you live with others in a village, you have your neighbours. It is possible that if you just get to a place and get a farm, people will steal your things and they will sell them because you would have just come to live in their area by force, without following the proper procedures.
Hon. Minister, may we take our time on this Bill because this Bill is everything in Zimbabwe to Zimbabweans. People fought, people died, people did different things because of the land issue. People want land. There is no one who is jealous about land. There is nothing like people who do not understand the aspect of land. There is no one who does not understand this issue because people fought for land from Plumtree to Mutare and from Zambezi to Limpopo. Everyone wanted land. It cannot change today. Chiefs, you have been given back your power. Please get back as fast as you can the powers that have been given to you. Do not take too long because at times you are the ones who take things back. Please take the power that you have been granted and use it. Do not agree to follow up on people. People should follow you. Even though you might not be the Chairman, we do have our caucuses. The chiefs should be heard through these. We do plead with our chiefs because we have children in different areas. We do hope that you will properly look into this issue. Let us not rush into this. Let us take our time as we say in Zimbabwe; there is no hurry in Africa. Let us take our time to do this in a proper manner so that we are a country that follows its own values because a country that copies others is not a proper one. We want to respect our culture so that in the future when we are using this Bill, we will not point fingers at each other.
Hon. Minister, you are responsible for this at the time being. Can it be history that you worked on this, things started working out well and neighbours lived together peacefully during land distribution.
The other issue is that people want to have title deeds. May it be so? May people have their title deeds so that they can feel that they are the real owners of the land? The people who still hold on to title deeds in their offices, may we talk about this. We know that there are some white people who are still holding on to these title deeds. We do hope that you will look into this issue to make sure that these title deeds are given to the rightful owners of the land so that they are able to use the land as collateral to get loans and to do development on their farms. Most of those white people managed to succeed in their farming because it was the black people who worked for them. We do hope that it will be the same with black people that they will succeed in this venture Hon.
Minister.
Please look into all these issues Hon. Minister. Please assist us on this issue and on this Bill that you brought here today. I thank you Mr.
President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUBANE: Thank you Mr. President
for offering me this opportunity to debate the report presented by Hon.
Sen. Mumvuri.
I would want to commend Parliament for recognising the importance of Senatorial Committees in participating in these Public
Hearings on important matters such as the Land Bill –[HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –I applaud Parliament for that.
Mr. President, land gives us an identity. People of my area say, we come from Chief Ngungubane. This is because of the land. They are proud of that. It gives them an identity. That is our culture. Land is embedded in our culture. You cannot separate culture from our land. I wanted to stress that Hon. Minister.
Of late, there have been greater calls coming from this House. If there are matters of domestic abuse, issues of domestic violence, child marriages and so on, it is traditional leaders. I implore this House that we should not recommend but let us use the legislative mandate that we were given by the people of Zimbabwe to correct some of the calls that are coming out there from the grassroots. It is important. We will be held accountable by our people if we fail, only recommend, sit down and it ends there. What am I saying? Hon. Sen. Mumvuri’s report recommended among other things, that traditional leaders must be at the forefront of promoting women’s rights with regards to land, but how can you promote women’s rights when you do not even sit in that Commission Hon. Minister? Let us be practical and realistic.
I have talked about land as something that gives us an identity and as part of our culture. Mr. President, if you read Section 282 of our Constitution, it says traditional leaders must, it is a command. It does not say shall. It has the discretion of someone else but the Constitution says the traditional leaders must take measures to preserve the culture, traditions, history and heritage. I will stop there though the sentence does not end there.
If you read Section 289 of the same Constitution, it says land is a finite natural resource. You cannot stretch it. It comes to a point where it will tell you that I am saturated, I cannot take anymore. Land is an infinite natural resource that forms part of Zimbabwe’s heritage. If you look at Section 282, it says, traditional leaders must among other things, preserve our heritage. So, Minister, if you are saying people chosen for their integrity in the Commission and leave out traditional leaders; we would have failed as a nation.
One Chapter of the Constitution says that traditional leaders must take responsibilities with part of our heritage. Section 289 acknowledges that point. I think Hon. President; the issue of traditional leaders sitting in the Commission is not an issue that we should be debating about. Chiefs must take control of their heritage and part of the heritage is the land. Hon. President, I am not debating the contents of the Bill but relating to what Hon. Sen. Mumvuri has said.
Section 29 talks of resettlement and placement of chiefs under resettlement land. I thought that chiefs taking part in this Commission will fulfill this provision because there is replacement of resettlement land under the authority of chiefs. It is very important that traditional leaders are among the Commissioners. I do support and agree with the calls coming from this House that traditional leaders must constitute part of this Commission.
Lastly, Mr. President, the report recommended that there should be clarity on the land tax, but I want to come in from a different angle and say that there is confusion on State land. You pay tax and it goes to the Ministry of Resettlement or Ministry of Local Government. I stand to be corrected on that but we have other aspects; Ministry of Rural Development. Councils are crying that these resettlement lands form part of their area of jurisdiction like the chiefs; they are folding their hands, nothing is happening.
With regards to the contents of the Bill, I will leave it to the Committee Stage for debate but I had wanted to respond to the report brought by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri and thank him for the detailed report; more importantly the issues that the people highlighted about traditional leaders. We are here to represent the wishes of the people. We should take cognisance of that. With those few words, I want to thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity to make my contribution. I was also part of this Committee which carried out these Public Hearings. I would like to start by thanking the Minister for introducing this Bill to this august House. Hon. Mumvuri said a lot about the land problems in the country since time immemorial but this Commission has the mandate of rectifying all the anomalies which led to the war of liberation according to Section 141 of the Constitution which says we should get views from the public.
Minister, my feeling is that the way this Commission was introduced is that it is an essential component of the lifestyles of the people of Zimbabwe. We realise that some of the people who have been allocated land have been reselling that land yet they were given for free. This is going to be unearthed by your Commission. You also heard some of the Members of the august House making some contributions calling for the audit on multiple ownership of land. Somebody has land in Matebeleland South, a farm in Mashonaland Central and that same person has another farm in Manicaland and Mutare, hence this has to be unearthed by the land audit.
People managed to manipulate the system because land was being distributed by different organisations, either through the Minister and the Land Committees in those areas but those people were allocating land to many people at the same time and even making double allocations. Somebody will have started doing some improvements on a piece of land, all of a sudden that land is allocated to somebody and they lose out. When you look at the land allocated to these people, some of them are not able to farm this land. Farming is a venture that is capital intensive but some of the people who were given land have no money to do the farming. The previous speaker said when people are given land; there should be land which they can afford to run. There should be productivity on that area.
In some areas, especially our country, it is a shame that Zimbabwe has to import food. We used an amount of about $253 million to import food, yet the underlying factor of allocating land to the people is to utilise land fully. Zimbabwe is an agro-based economy; therefore we need to determine the maximum size of farms to be given to people. You give a person about 2 000 hectares of farm land yet they cannot do the farming. Some people were allocated land and it is now time for farming, that person starts asking to be given free seed, fertiliser and whatsoever. Even if you advance these people some cash for farming, they would rather go and buy luxuries, new cars, and even go to the extent of doing bad things.
The other issue which was looked at is the issue of land taxation. We cannot fix it at a flat rate of $5 per hectare. We have regions 1 to 5 and these people live in different ecological areas. We need to look at the taxation method of people in regions 1 and 5.
During the Constitution making process, we said the chiefs should be the custodians of the land. I realised that most of my colleagues supported the idea that chiefs be included in the land redistribution process. People should not come from anywhere and get any area which they want without involving the chiefs. We know that even during the war of liberation, freedom fighters did not operate in a chief’s area without informing the chieftainship of that area. They would even respect the spirit mediums of that particular area. We should be aware of the fact that farming is a business and worthwhile venture especially if you get into it with all your heart and support it effectively. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Firstly, let me say
I am very impressed with the level of debate taking place and I feel that we should have more time to allow more contributions. With the leave of the House, I now move that debate be now adjourned.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 14th February, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA), the Senate
adjourned at Eleven Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 16th February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. SHAMU: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of privilege. I would like to congratulate the Ministry of Information, Media and
Broadcasting Services, the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Cooperation, Star
FM, ZiFM …
Hon. Shamu was asked to approach the Chair.
HON. SHAMU: Madam Speaker, I rise to congratulate the
Ministry of Information, Media and Broadcasting Services, the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Cooperation, Star FM, ZiFM and all other stakeholders for successfully celebrating the World Radio Day on
Monday, 13th February, 2017. Madam Speaker…
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order. I have no intention to disrupt or discard a very good motion from Hon. Shamu but from a procedural point of view, Madam Speaker; we understand that it is a matter of privilege from what he has said but what is not clear is what the matter of privilege is as it has to be noted what the matter is all about before he dwells into the details of the matter. Can he make clear his terminology whether or not it is a matter of privilege then he can go into details?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, while I take
what you are saying, Hon. Shamu had mentioned what it is. However, I am advising Hon. Shamu to bring it maybe as a motion because it is not a matter of privilege. – [HON. Members: Inaudible interjections.] – I have given a ruling so why are you still talking?
Hon. Members, I am appealing to you, the microphones are not working so I think it will be difficult for those who want to hear what the Minister will be saying. So please try to lower your voices because what the Minister is saying here should be heard by those who are at the back of the House.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 6,
2016]
First Order read: Second Reading: National Competitiveness Commission Bill [H. B. 6, 2016].
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam Speaker, I hereby present the Second Reading of the National Competitiveness Commission Bill hereinafter referred to as the NCC Bill. This seeks to address the nation’s loss of competitiveness and ease of doing business. In doing so, let me begin by briefly outlining the background of the proposed Bill.
In 2014, Madam Speaker, there was concern on the high cost of production in Zimbabwe. There was also concern on the pricing of some of our goods that we were producing locally resulting in us having goods coming into this country at lower prices than the goods that we produced locally. Therefore, there was a concern in terms of ascertaining the cost drivers in our economy and also to make a comparison with our major trading partners within the region. We carried out a study whose findings revealed that a lot of our utilities and other costs were on the high side compared to our regional partners. These are issues to do with power, water, transport, taxes and the cost of money; the list goes on. Obviously, these had to be attended and we made two fundamental recommendations to Cabinet that these issues could not be addressed in bits and pieces but that they had to be a wholesale approach to the entire cost structure and particularly our cost drivers. So the fundamental recommendation was that we need to setup an entity which, on a daily basis, monitors the issues to do with cost and also comparison with our regional trading partners.
Hitherto Madam Speaker, we used to have the National Incomes and Pricing Commission but whose thrust was merely to do with prices and if you recall Madam Speaker, this Commission at one time was really more of following-up on producers in terms of issues to do with prices resulting in us embarking on price controls which is really unhealthy in any given economy. Therefore the recommendation was that we look at an entity which does not look at prices but focuses on costs because it is the cost build-up that translates into a price. We also recommended that rather than create a new entity, we rebrand an existing entity. We already have the National Incomes and Pricing Commission, the recommendation was that we do not come up with a new entity but we rebrand that existing entity to a National Competitiveness Commission.
Madam Speaker, let me alert the House that all the law-making processes of this Bill were complied with and we await to hear the results of the Outreach contributions made by members of the public and interested stakeholders by the relevant portfolio committee from this Parliament. Let me outline the clauses of the Bill to the House.
Clause 1, sets out the short title of the Bill which is the National
Competitiveness Commission Act which will focus mainly on the issues of competitiveness and the ease of doing business while the repealed Act, the National Incomes and Pricing Commission dealt with price control of goods.
Clause 2, provides certain definitions of terms used in the Bill.
Key definitions such as “competitiveness”, “the ease of doing business”,
“the cost of doing business”, “cost drivers” and standard definitions are defined in the context of competitiveness.
Clause 3, provides that the State is to be bound … Hon. Chinanzvavana having been making noise.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Chinanzvavana at the corner there please – [AN HON. MEMBER: Ini here Madam Speaker?] – No, I mean the Hon. lady.
HON. BIMHA: Clauses 4, 5 and 6 provide for the establishment of the Commission, its composition as well as its functions and powers. The Commission shall consist of a Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson and a Board which shall be composed of not less than nine and more than 12 Board members who are appointed by the Minister in consultation with the President.
Madam Speaker, at least half of the Commission’s Board Members shall be women in line with Section 17 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe
Amendment (No. 20) Act 2013 – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Their terms and conditions of office, vacation of office, meetings, procedures of the Board et cetera are outlined in the First Schedule of the Bill.
Madam Speaker, the functions of the Commission are outlined in
Clause 6 (1) (a) and they are as follows:-
- to develop, coordinate and ensure implementation of key policy improvement processes, strategies and initiatives that will enhance Zimbabwe’s global competitiveness;
- monitor evolving sector specific subjects and strategies for enhancing Zimbabwe’s global competitiveness;
- review all existing and new business regulations to ascertain their impact on the cost of doing business and recommend amendments or repeals where appropriate to enhance competitiveness;
- continuously monitor the cost drivers in the business and economic environment, and advise on measures to be taken to enhance productivity and address current and emerging costs challenges;
- identify sectors of the Zimbabwean economy that have potential for global competitiveness, whilst also paying due attention to issues of structure and size of industry, technology gaps, skills, infrastructure and modernisation needs;
- review all price changes by public bodies ranging from Central Government, parastatals to local authorities that charge or levy user fees, rates from the public and clients;
- undertake research and maintain a comprehensive nationwide statistical database to be used in the analysis of competitiveness across all sectors of the economy;
- develop periodic competitive frameworks and strategies;
- provide a platform for dialogue between the public, private sector, labour, academia and non-state actors on the subject of competitiveness;
- build awareness and advocacy media on matters related to competitiveness;
- produce an annual benchmarking report on the national competitiveness such as the National Competitiveness Report; and
- perform any other function that may be conferred or imposed upon the Commission by this Act or any other enactment.
Madam Speaker, let me state that in addition to the functions of the NCC Commission, the powers of the NCC Commission are elaborated in the Second Schedule of the Bill.
Clause 7 provides for the policy direction of the Commission. In particular, it states that the Minister may give the Commission general directions relating to the policy the Commission is to observe in the exercise of its function. Procedures to execute policy directives are also detailed in this clause.
Clause 8 provides for the execution of contracts and instruments by the Commission as well as delegating some of the functions to authorised persons.
Clause 9 provides that the Commission shall prepare a report on all its activities and submit it to the Minister. Madam Speaker, let me make it clear that the NCC has to submit a report (National Competitiveness Report) on all its activities on each and every financial year. Further, the Minister may request the report at any given time when it is necessary.
Madam Speaker, the NCC shall act as the Secretariat of the
Standing Inter-Ministerial Cabinet Committee and shall report to the Minister who will then report to the Standing Inter-Ministerial Cabinet Committee.
Clauses 10 and 11 provide for the appointment of the Executive Director of the Commission and the employment of persons necessary for the conduct of the business of the Commission.
Clauses 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 relate to the financial powers of the Commission. In particular, they set out what the funds of the
Commission consist of, that money not immediately required by the Commission may be invested and also that auditors shall be appointed with the Minister’s approval to audit the Commission and give reports, statements or explanations in connection with the Commission’s activities, funds and property.
Madam Speaker, Clauses 17, 18 and 19 provide for the powers of the Executive Director to obtain information, preservation of secrecy by every person engaged by the Commission, unless he or she is required to do so by order of a competent court. It provides that no liability shall attach to the Commission for any loss or damage sustained by any person as a result of the exercise or performance of any function in good faith.
Clauses 20 and 21 provide for regulations that can be made in relation to the Commission as well as repeal the National Incomes and
Pricing Act.
Clause 22 provides for transitional necessities to the effect that any regulations which were made by the Minister under the repealed Act and which were in force immediately before the appointed day shall continue in force as if they had been made by the Commission. Madam Speaker, I hereby table this NCC Bill before the National Assembly for consideration. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker, I have got a number of points that I want the Hon. Minister to clarify on this Bill.
The first point of clarity that I am seeking from the Minister is , I ask the
Hon. Minister to state in very simple layman’s terms why we really need this board and Act? We need to understand that we have created a lot of institutions in this country that are sucking from the national fiscus. What is it that we really need out of this Bill that will make it necessary to be there?
There are other issues that I want to understand from the Minister. He says that he wants to create a board and I was just wondering to myself whether there are no other existing structures currently within his Ministry that can do the responsibilities that he wants to create a whole board for. I was really wondering because some of the duties that he wants to assign this board are literally duties that are supposed to be done by him as a Minister and other people that are within his Ministry. Why do we need to create a whole board for those responsibilities that are supposed to be done by the Hon. Minister and his team?
I also want to understand, the Hon Minister says that this board is going to be appointed by him in consultation with the President. May be before I even go there Hon. Speaker, let me start talking about this whole board. The Minister wants to create a board which is a creation of this Act. As I indicated, basically what this board will be doing are functions that are supposed to be done by technocrats that are within his Ministry. Therefore, we begin to ask ourselves what is being done. Is it really to create a board that is going to add value to the economy of this country kana kuti kutsvakirana mabasa kwamuka vazukuru who want some jobs somewhere. The Minister needs to justify the reason why we should have a Bill, an Act that is going to create another board and whether that board is actually going to add value.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, would
you please refrain from repeating yourself because you are saying the same things.
HON. D. P. SIBANDA: I am trying to emphasise. If I was talking in Tonga, I would have done it quicker but anyway this is English Madam Speaker. The other issues I want to understand, the Minister said he is going to appoint a board in consultation with the President. I am not seeing the logic behind the Cabinet Minister going to appoint a board and that board being accountable to him and then he says he does it in conslultation with the President. There is no form of accountability here in the manner that this board is being appointed. If this board was being appointed in consultation with Parliament who are the representatives of the people, then we would say at least there is some form of accountability. For him to appoint on his own, a board that will be accountable to himself I think this is the type of culture of entitlement and patronage that we are continuing to create within the economy of this country which is sucking the economy rather than creating anything in addition to the economy.
My other question which I need clarification on is, who will pay the expenses for this board and how will it generate income? The Hon. Minister talked about cost drivers in the economy. My question is, has the Minister and his team, they failed as a Ministry to deal with the cost drivers that are affecting this economy to an extent that he has to create a separate board to deal with that? So, why is he still there? He is the Minister of Industry and Commerce. His responsibility together with that of his colleagues in the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is to ensure that we create a fair environment for business operations in this country. Now, if he has failed and therefore he wants to delegate the responsibility which falls directly into his hands, why should the Ministry continue to exist? I think he needs then to tell us whether the currently existing structures have failed to deal with the cost drivers that are existent in the economy. He should tell us that they have failed.
Like I indicated Hon. Speaker, this one is an additional cost driver because it is going to suck from the same dying industry. It wants to get money from the same dying industry and what value will that add to the economy? He says that the board will be a secretariat to the interministerial - something whatever he calls it. What is surprising is that this secretariat will not be reporting to the inter-ministerial team that he talked about. It will be reporting to him and him reporting to the interministerial. It is not very clear, this relationship is not clear. How does a secretariat of an inter-ministerial board report to a single Minister and then the single Minister then goes on to report to everyone else? How does it become an inter-ministerial secretariat when it is appointed by him and him alone? So, Hon. Speaker, I believe that I need clarification. In my view, the Minister has to tell us the justification of this Bill, otherwise it is an unnecessary Bill. I thank you.
HON. MHERE:
1.0 Introduction
On the 23rd September 2016, the Government of Zimbabwe gazetted the National Competitiveness Bill. Consequently, the Portfolio
Committee on Industry and Commerce resolved to conduct Stakeholder Consultative Meetings on the Bill from the 23th to 29th of October 2016 in Victoria Falls, Bulawayo, Gweru, Masvingo, Mutare and Harare to gather stakeholders’ views concerning the Bill.
2.0 Objectives of the Consultative meetings.
The broad objective of the consultative meetings was to enable your Committee to engage industry players from the private and public sector pursuant to the need to understand their concerns in respect of the gazetted National Competitiveness Commission Bill. These meetings were held in accordance with the provisions of section 141 (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, as read together with National Assembly Standing Order No 25(c), which requires Parliament to facilitate public involvement in its legislative and other processes and in the processes of its committees and gives select committees, the power to receive representations from interested parties.
3.0 Methodology
The Stakeholder Consultative meetings were instigated by the technical nature of the Bill which obligated the Committee to solicit the views of captains of industry who are directly affected by the introduction of the Bill. To get a technical insight into the issues contained in the Bill, the Committee toured the following provinces;
Matabeleland North, Bulawayo, Midlands, Masvingo, Manicaland and Harare Metropolitan. During the course of the consultative meetings, your Committee encountered challenges of non-attendance in Vic Falls and poor attendance in other provinces by representatives who were mostly ill-prepared to give significant contributions to the Bill.
Your Committee realised with concern that the information concerning the consultative meetings was poorly disseminated from the headquarters of the various organisations that were invited to make their contributions to the provisions of the Bill. The following are the submissions from the small number of people who managed to attend the consultative meetings.
4.0 Stakeholders views on National Competitiveness
Commission Bill
The stakeholders’ submissions centered on three major aspects. They were apprehensive about the funding, over legislation and legislative resemblances aspects of the Bill as clarified below;
4.1 Funding of the Commission
There was an explicit dissatisfaction regarding the establishment of another Commission that, according to clause 12 paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) of the National Competitiveness Commission Bill, is funded from
“moneys appropriated for the purpose by the Act of Parliament; and moneys received from the Standards Development Fund…; and any donations, grants, bequests or loans….” The stakeholders opined that the creation of another Commission would bleed the economy more when the Treasury is already struggling to resource and meet the budgetary obligations of the existing Commissions.
Concerns were also raised regarding the virementing of the funds from the Standards Development Fund at the detriment of the objective of the fund which according to Standards Development Fund Act (Chapter 14: 19), is the development and promotion of standardisation and quality control of commodities and services. Mr. Speaker Sir, sustainable and sufficient funding is a fundamental component for the survival and operational efficiency of the Commission. In terms of
Funding, the National Incomes and Pricing Commission Act [Chapter 14:32] relied mostly on the proceeds of such share of the value of deposits and fines collected by the Commission for price violations. The funding compromise being proposed by the Bill effectually means that the Commission would literally survive on gifts, donations and loans which may not be readily forth-coming considering the economic challenges bedeviling the nation.
4.2 Legislative Resemblances
At the outset, the promulgation of the National Incomes and
Pricing Commission Act [Chapter 14:32] gave effect to the amendment of the provisions of section 3 of the Control of Goods Act [Chapter
14:05] and now the establishment of the National Competitiveness
Commission results in the repealing of the National Incomes and Pricing Commission Act [Chapter 14:32]. A close look at the above stated piece of legislation in terms of the structure, processes, funding framework and functions indicates that there are striking resemblances on these pieces legislation.
For instance, the wording of section 5 (a) of the National Incomes and Pricing Commission Act [Chapter 14:32] is exactly the same as those on Clause 6 paragraph 1(f) and (g) of the National
Competitiveness Commission Bill, raising suspicions that the proposed Bill could be dealing with the same aspects carrying a different name with the probable fate of its predecessor that existed for nine years without any legacy to appreciate. Thus, the submissions made by stakeholders pointed to the fact that the obtaining state of affairs as regards the introduction of the Bill and the subsequent repealing of the National Incomes and Pricing Act [Chapter 14:32] depicts a predictable circus within the Ministry of Industry and Commerce.
4.3 Over Legislation
The Committee submits that the Competition and Tariffs Commission is currently at an advanced stage proposing major amendments to the Competition Act [Chapter 14:28]. Mr. Speaker Sir, your Committee, through the submissions made, noted the upsurge of too many piece-meal legislation that have realised the existence of the following related pieces of legislation; the Competition and Tariff Commission Act [Chapter 14: 29], the Competition Act [Chapter 14:28] and the Competition Amendment Act (Act No. 29 of 2001), but dealing with two sides of the same coin. For example, section 5 (1)(g) and (h) of the Competition Act provides for issues to do with prices, costs and profits, economic competition, tariff charges and unfair trade practices while clause 6 (1) (a), (d) and (f) of the Bill provides for income and pricing policy, global competitiveness, cost of doing business, cost drivers and prices penalties and fines. In other words, your Committee Mr. Speaker Sir, is of the opinion that the functions of the Competition and Tariff Commissions can be merged with those of the National Competition Commission since they deal with similar matters. As has already been alluded to, what is essential and central is the proper implementation of coordinated legislation rather than the establishment of many Commissions within the same Ministry triggering an unnecessary financial drain on the tax payers’ money.
Informed by these pertinent submissions, the Committee recommends the Minister of Industry and Commerce to consider the following;
5.0 Recommendations
5.1 The Committee recommends for the merging of the National Competitiveness Commission and the Competition and Tariff
Commission.
5.2 In view of the similarities of the matters provided for in the Bill and the existing legislation, the Committee further recommends for the enactment and implementation of harmonised legislation.
6.0 Conclusion
With the above submissions, Mr. Speaker Sir, I now commend the
Bill for consideration by this august House. I thank you.
HON. MPARIWA: Perhaps My first question before I go to
the specifics that I want clarified by the Minister is if the Minister can define this animal in the form of the Bill that he has brought to the
House. I am asking that question because we have the NIPC versus the NICC, which he is trying to introduce. What is the difference between the two because the NIPC had the same objectives that he outlined in Article 1. One then wonders, if the first one failed without corrective measures having been taken in the NICC Bill, then this one will also fail. I would not want to allude to the fact that we are good at coming up with policies with different names yet it means exactly the same.
Now, to my specific points; I heard the Minister saying that there will be a dialogue through consultation for labour movements, business and Government. We already have an existing structure in the form of a tripartite negotiating forum. The Ministry of Industry and Commerce is also a member of the task force. Having been in Government for four years, I really know and understand how the structures in Government work. So, I am really wondering why the Ministry of Industry and Commerce when attending consultations and dialogue meetings cannot tap into that particular chamber for what the Ministry can use in its Ministry rather than form another structure. You cause mayhem and confusion and like I said yesterday, there is need for social cohesion. But this Bill will actually lead to disunity because at the end of the day, there is one Government. The Minister is a Cabinet Minister who also sits in the TNF with several other Ministers. I would advise the Minister to talk to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services because that structure of social dialogue does exist in Government.
My question is what really is the intention of bringing a Bill in a different name when it actually talks about the same thing in another Bill that has already failed? I really believe that this Bill will be a cash cow and creation of jobs for the boys. He did try to put icing on the cake in terms of the 50/50 representation on the board but I think the timing is wrong. You cannot rely on donations or grants when Government is grappling with salary payments to civil servants. So, I want to believe that even the Hon. Chair has also alluded to the fact that they feel that they had hearings which rejected this Bill. So I do not know whether we should continue debating something that will be agreed to by very few people. It would have been embarrassing if they had consulted full houses everywhere they went and the people rejected the Bill like we are doing now. This Bill is very untimely Hon. Speaker.
HON. GABBUZA: I rise to join those who are totally opposed to this Bill. This is not necessary at this point in time. This is a clear case of poor prioritization by Government. Bureaucracy is a cost, the more you put boards, the more expensive it becomes. If we calculate that the board is going to have a secretariat, calculate salaries of the secretariat when they go for researches to find prices and sitting allowances for the board members, I would rather say employ more teachers in my constituency, because I have schools that are running with two teachers as Government has put a freeze on recruitment. That money will find better use somewhere else. It might be necessary in due course but for now I would plead with the Minister to put aside these unnecessary costs. These jobs can clearly be done by the existing structures within Government. What is causing the costs, the Minister indicates that the cost of money is making Zimbabwe uncompetitive. What we must be addressing is the reason why money is expensive. There is no way you can reduce the cost of money at the bank by simply putting a monitoring board. It is not possible because the cost of money is due to risk factors. What are these risk factors for any investor wanting to borrow money to use in Zimbabwe? What they ask themselves first is; is that money coming back in US$ or in bond notes. Once you talk of bond notes, already it is a risk which attracts a premium on the money. So, the issue we should be addressing is not about putting up a board, it is about addressing fundamental economic issues across the board.
Utilities have been mentioned as one of those things that are very expensive and cause a cost to our productivity. Yes, but if you look at water regionally, Zimbabwe has got the cheapest water. It is not that expensive. The water that we use in industries is not at all that expensive. Power is expensive. Why is power expensive? Even if the Minister puts a board, there is no way you can reduce the cost of producing power by a thermal power station in Hwange which is redundant.
The station is very old, it needs continual service. Refractory machines, by their nature, because of too much heat, need to be constantly serviced because they are too old and they have been over heated. So, even if you put a board, what will they do to reduce that cost? Unless you go the hydro-electric way, put more hydro-generators then you have cheaper power. By putting a board, still the power will not go down because it is the way we generate our power.
Transport is expensive. That is what the Minister told us in that Bill. Yes, transport is expensive. It is because we are using these 30 tonne trucks, the gonyettes. There is no country that can develop without a viable railway system. Unless we sort out the railway industry and the railway system, our cost of transport in the country will still be very expensive. You cannot transport coal from Hwange using an ordinary truck on the road. That is very expensive and what is on the road – 100, 200 roadblocks all demanding money. That is a cost that adds up. When the transporter is charging you, he takes into account the several police men that he is going to bribe on the way because that is a cost. So, Madam Speaker, whether you put a board, I do not see how it is going to reduce the cost of transport.
We have a board in the form of the Zimbabwe Energy Regulatory Authority (ZERA). It is supposed to be regulating prices of power and prices of fuel, but fuel price has been changing and going down the world over on the international market, yet our fuel has not gone down. If you go to Mozambique, our fuel is twice what Mozambique is charging. Zambia, which is further than us from the sea, has got cheaper fuel than us, but we have ZERA which is supposed to be regulating. I see this pricing commission also sitting there where ZERA is sitting doing nothing but increasing cost to the productivity of the nation.
If we want to reduce costs, just the issue of continuously using paper work instead of computerisation is a cost. You do things faster by computers. Just getting a Zimbabwean visa takes you about an hour waiting at the airport. That is the cost of doing business. As long as we do not computerise, we do not e-government, our cost structure will still go up.
What should we do, Madam Speaker? I do not see the Minister, even if we gave him that mandate by approving the Bill, telling ZESA which is under a different Ministry, to reduce the price of electricity. That has never happened given the policy inconsistencies within our Ministries, given the various mandates that different Ministries are given. There is nowhere where one Minister can cut across the board of all other Ministries to tell them to reduce the price.
From experience, the Minister knows that is a pie in the sky. You can never attain that. Ministers do not normally want to bend and hear other Ministers giving directives to them. As long as that Commission is going to be put to the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, it will not give directives to ZESA and it will not give directives to the Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate. It is almost impossible.
So, Madam Speaker, I think, let us find other ways, like Hon. Sibanda indicated, within various Ministries. We do not need a separate entity. We already have the capacity. That is why there are those Ministers and Permanent Secretaries to say, okay, how can we reduce the cost of productivity within the country. So, Madam Speaker, I do not support this Bill and I think it is totally unnecessary. At this point in time, we could use the money somewhere else and use it better. I thank you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker, for
according me this opportunity to also add my voice. Mine are questions which I need clarification from the Minister.
Minister, having looked at the Bill, I understand when the Commission is in place, it will also look at the quality of goods being produced by the manufacturing companies. I understand obviously, you will be actually advocating for quality. How are you going to reconcile the cheap imports that are coming into the country and the high quality that is going to be produced if the Commission is in place? When people will actually be purchasing the cheap quality goods are they not going to lose business?
The other issue that I also need clarification from the Minister is about the labour issue. Having looked at our current Labour Act, there are still worries in terms of the labour issue whereby, they are saying it is still expensive. How do you intend to do away with that problem because it also adds to quality and it has to have something to do with the issue of cost?
The last one which I also need clarification on is about the raw materials.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Hon.
Members at the back there, you are having a meeting? I can hear your voices from here. If you cannot lower your voice please, go to the lobby. Order Hon. Mliswa. That is my duty.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker, I was talking about the raw materials. How do you intend the Commission to look at the availability of raw materials? Those are some of the things that are coming from other Ministries which also need to be regulated and for the prices maybe, to go down or the availability of such, at the end, to come up with a high quality product. With those four issues, Madam Speaker, I thank you.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you Madam Speaker for this
opportunity to try and refine the Minister’s thought process and maybe giving more ammunition as he looks at the Bill.
Madam Speaker, let me thank the Minister for tabling the Bill, but I also wish to raise the following issues. The first issue is that of competitiveness. Competitiveness is all about the cost structure of a country and competitiveness is so broad as I think colleges who have contributed have demonstrated. It is a very broad issue and my fear is that the Bill focuses on the supply side of the competitiveness issue, yet there are so many other issues which impact on competitiveness. There are demand issues, there are fiscal policy issues, there are monetary policy issues and there are structural issues.
There are institutional issues that impact negatively on competitiveness. But the way the Bill is structured, it would appear it is more concerned about the pricing structure, as measured by the consumer price index or the producer price index monitoring the level of prices in the economy and so on and so forth. The Bill focuses on what I call issues to do with internal devaluation, the pricing level, the wage levels and how that impacts on the pricing model in the economy. As I said before, competitiveness is affected by so many things that might go beyond the scope of this Bill. My colleagues have talked about infrastructure, the cost of electricity, water, roads, rail services and all that impacting on competitiveness.
There is the ease of doing business which is also affecting the competitiveness of our companies because there are a lot of costs built in the process of trying to form a business and operate a business. At the end of the day, it will affect the price model by economic players or economic entities. Therefore, the way the Bill is structured, it concentrates on the supply side yet the nature of competitiveness is quite broader. For it to succeed, it has to explore the other bigger scope that I have alluded to.
For example, there is a question of fiscal policy. The import duty structure on its own can really affect the pricing model. That is a fiscal issue which does not necessarily fall under the province of the Ministry. There is the monetary issue. Right now we have got bond notes. If you want to get foreign currency, you have to do a transfer in the bank and those who supply the foreign currency have to put 20% as commission for you to get foreign currency from those people with bond notes. That again affects the price structure.
In my respective view, the issue of competitiveness requires social contract. It requires labour, business and Government at a higher level than just at a ministerial level to tackle all these issues, some which might even be political. So, you need tripatism, the Tripartite
Negotiating Forum elevated to a social contract arrangement to deal with all the multiplicity of issues that impact on competitiveness, and not just supply side issues or narrow pricing issues as they affect the prices of goods in the economy.
So, I submit that the Minister might need to consult his counterparts in the Ministry of Labour and also other stakeholders to come up with a viable vehicle to foster competitiveness in the economy. This is because the way it is structured, I do not think it will do the trick because it will end up being narrow and its mandate will not cover all these other broader fiscal monetary, political, institutional and structural issues that I have mentioned, which nevertheless have an impact on competitiveness. Thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam Speaker. First of all I
would like to thank you as the Speaker’s panel and the Speaker of this
House for responding to the health issues of these Members of
Parliament by changing this carpet. I am honestly humbled. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Having said that Madam Speaker, at least
now I can breathe and talk. I am also standing up opposing this Bill for the following reasons. One of our greatest challenges in this country is that we always want to address symptoms of problems, not causes. If we start addressing symptoms, we are not going to correct that problem because we are not dealing with the core problem. We are dealing with lembilaphi and that will not work. As far as I am concerned, what the Minister is trying to do is trying to create a fiefdom for himself and his cronies at the expense of Zimbabweans.
We are in a mess as we speak and surely, the time has come for us to prioritise the problems bedeviling this country than dealing with the Commissions and Bills that will not resolve the bread and butter issues affecting the people. Madam Speaker, after the consultations with the people, which consultations did not have people that participated, what the Minister is doing is that he has asked us what the time is and when we tell him that the time is 9.00 o’clock, what he wants to tell us is that the time is 0900 hours. It does not work that way, never does, never will and never has.
He goes further to say the report from the Portfolio Committee where it said this NICC is going to survive on loans and gifts. We are as good as a mother who is at home and has put a pot of water on the stove and then discovers that there is no mealie-meal. She then goes to the next door to borrow mealie-meal. You do not even have enough mealiemeal to make porridge. You only have water, and that is what he has.
Why is he changing the current Bill that has been there for nine years? We already have the NIPC, what is wrong with it? What he is doing is that we have this building that we have constructed and have been using all along and failed to renovate so that it sustains what we are looking for. What the Minister wants to do now is to destroy that building or leave it empty for nature to take its course and reconstruct exactly the same building.
This time what he does is that he wants to put a flat screen TV, change the curtains and have the state or art furniture, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Madam Speaker, the other issue, which is the same issue that needs to be dealt with by the NICC was covered in the Kadoma Declaration. All we need to do is to revisit our Kadoma Declaration and start implementing. We have done a lot of talking but no action. The time has come that we should stop reinventing the wheel. We have the blue prints that have solutions to these problems that we are facing. All what we do is stop putting the blue prints that we would have written in order to solve our problems in File 13. Take those blue prints and implement them. I thank you Madam Chair.
*HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I start by
thanking the Minister for the motion which you have raised. In this instance, there is nothing that we have to be grateful for the Minister.
My mother used to tell me not to indulge in something that is taboo. There has been a combination of bad performance by both the Minister and the Committee Chair. – [HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
*HON. MARIDADI: You are talking about the Shona term makunakuna, which talks of something which is taboo and usually related to sexual relationships between relatives, like mother and daughter.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please talk using the language
which we understand because you may end up insulting.
*HON. MARIDADI: What I am saying is that he has done
something which is taboo such as talking about the root of a stone which is something none existent and taboo to see. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee also made recommendations, but there is no coherence and co-existence between the speech and the recommendation. It is like you are talking of somebody whom we describe the attire they are putting on and end up saying, this person is nicely dressed, has big breasts but the person is a man. There is no coherence. I believe that when the Committee has gone on an outreach programme, they should introduce to the House the information that has been said by the people whom they visited during the outreach programme. What the Committee Chairperson has done is quite different from what he is saying. If the people whom they visited were to listen to the speech presented by the Chairperson of the Committee, they will be surprised as to where that speech came from.
I am pleading with the Minister responsible to listen and he should know that he is an industrialist who is into the human resources. He was also the Chairperson of Air Zimbabwe and human resources and is quite aware of the situation in Zimbabwe. He knows the stance which is taken by Parliament – he brings the Bill to the House, it is debated and passed into an Act. What we need is for you to bring in Bills which are very constructive and that can be debated. I think the Minister is just indulging in child’s play because he is not serious about the Bill that he brought.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, we should
use parliamentary language and not the negative language because you are attacking the Minister in person. I think this is very wrong. You must use parliamentary and respectful language.
*HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, I did not use derogative language, but I am simply advising the Minister that when he brings a Bill, he should not just follow the bandwagon, because other Ministers have introduced Bills that have succeeded in the House and he feels left out. As such, he has to bring his Bill that does not make sense and lacks coherence.
Madam Speaker, I am not going to talk about the cost drivers because other Members have debated that. Let me be clear about this Bill. This Bill lacked thorough elaboration when it was crafted. When the Pricing Commission was introduced, they did not indulge in anything besides corruption. They would go into Makro Wholesalers and say that this television is expensive, please reduce the price and that fridge is expensive, please reduce the price. Outside, there will be their fellow members or cronies who when the prices have been reduced, they would come into Makro and buy those items. The Minister is following the same route and we believe that there are not going to be any committees or bodies of ten women or ten men who are going to talk about price reduction. Whether the board members are appointed in consultation with the Minister and the President, that makes no difference because the electricity price is going to be the same.
I am advising the Minister to stop writing notes. The best he can do is simply remove the Bill from the Order Paper and go back to the drawing board and re-craft it. The Minister is trying to introduce something whereby the Commission is going to be appointed by him and he is telling Parliament that he is going to appoint the Commission and step down from his portfolio or I will keep my portfolio and do away with the Committee. Hence, my advice to the Minister is that, he should drop this Bill, go back to his Ministry and do the job he was appointed to do. Zimbabwe is going bankrupt because we have wrong politics and policies. I will repeat, what the Minister is doing is simply child’s play. He is playing with the Members’ minds. He should work on the policies that are there to develop the country’s economy.
I think the Minister, as a politician, has influence on the political direction of the country.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Ford Ranger grey ADI9028 is wrongly parked – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members you are busy talking, I am announcing about a Ford Ranger grey ADI9028 which is wrongly parked.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this
opportunity to debate about the Bill that is proposing to establish a Commission to solve the problems of economic competitiveness that we have. Madam Speaker, while I commend the Hon. Minister for his good intentions, that is for wanting the economic competitiveness of Zimbabwe to improve, I however must lament that I want to join the chorus of voices that oppose this Bill. I want to state that I oppose this Bill vehemently. Madam Speaker, it is not that I do not want the Zimbabwean economy to be competitive but I oppose the Bill because I am not convinced that this Bill would do anything at all to change the evils and the ills that dog us as a country, that hamper economic productivity and business performance.
Madam Speaker, what I will say to the Hon. Minister is that when I was listening to his speech and when I read the Bill, I got the sense that the Executive Commission that the Hon. Minister intends to put in place is a Commission that essentially will be a Commission to tell us common sense. In other words Madam Speaker, I am saying that it is common sense to Zimbabwe everywhere, that what needs to happen in Zimbabwe is for our businesses and economy to be competitive. We cannot establish a whole commission to tell us common sense and to state the obvious. Speaker after speaker Madam Speaker has indicated that everybody knows that those issues that impede our economy are common cause and indeed are common sense.
I want to urge the Hon. Minister not to spend his precious ministerial time putting in place a commission to tell him what he already knows and what everybody else knows. Madam Speaker, the economy is not functioning because of clear basic economic variables. I will echo other speakers who said that business is failing because the economy is not doing well, which is common sense. The economy is not doing well because of the state of our governance. If the Hon.
Minister wants to effect change in the way that business is done in Zimbabwe, that becomes easy and we become competitive as a destination.
We usually talk about foreign direct investment. Madam Speaker, I want to talk about domestic investment. There are Zimbabweans in this country who are able to unlock their resources so that they can invest them as capital to start industries and other profitable businesses but they do not do so because of competitiveness. It is the risk factor that others have mentioned. The Hon. Minister must sit down with his colleagues in Cabinet to address the risk factor that Zimbabwe is facing. They must collectively answer the question – we start with the outside - that when an investor wants to invest money in Zimbabwe, when they look at Zimbabwe, what do they see. How do we appear to anyone who has money and wants to invest? Do we invoke the confidence that if a person brings in their money, it will arrive in that productive sector and generate profits. Will it be allowed to do so?
Madam Speaker, if we go to the locals who are here, those Zimbabweans who have significant reserves, when they see what is happening because they are right here; in terms of the way we manage the economy, framework our business environment, and our regulatory environment, do they have the confidence that their money will not be frittered away in all sorts of issues? I want to say this and just mention specific instances where the biggest impediments are to ease of doing business as well as to competitiveness of our economy.
I want to urge the Hon. Minister not to waste again his precious ministerial time as well as Parliament’s precious time and also the tax payers’ precious money in putting in place a Commission that as I said earlier would be there to tell us common sense that we all know.
Instead, I want to urge the Hon. Minister to utilise the existing, like my
Hon. colleagues have said, the Hon. Minister to be economic with our
State resources and time and utilise the existing institutions in Zimbabwe today that work to remove those impediments to competitiveness. I also want to mention through you Mr. Speaker Sir, that I want the Hon. Minister to take a different perspective of himself and his colleagues in Cabinet.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot think of any better or bigger economic
Competitiveness Commission that there can be except Cabinet itself. The very purpose of Cabinet is to provide a policy framework that allows business not only to thrive but to survive and do well. Mr.
Speaker Sir, to the Hon. Minister through you, Cabinet is the economic Competitiveness Commission that we have. Let us utilise it across the whole spectrum, from the financial to the infrastructure ministries, the legal environment and all those are what we already have. The Zimbabwean tax payers are already paying for the running of that and that is the biggest APEX economic business competitiveness body that we have.
Then I will mention another one Mr. Speaker Sir. We have an Anti-corruption Commission in this country and it is not an executive commission like what the Hon. Minister wants to appoint that will be answerable to him, and whether or not he will answer to it is something else. The Anti-corruption Commission is a constitutional commission. It is a commission whose power is embedded in this Constitution. I talk about the Anti-corruption Commission because indeed, one of the biggest if not the biggest driver of business costs in this country is corruption. It will not help us if the Hon. Minister sets up his executive Commission to tell us what we already know and to tell him what we already know and does not address the scourge of corruption.
Corruption pads at every stage of the production cycle and I would hope that the Hon. Minister really pays attention to this. Corruption is the biggest cost driver in this economy.
Anyone who runs or tries to run a business in this economy ends up faced with costs that they cannot normally budget for. Even in the regulatory environment when people want to obtain licences for businesses and so on. The practice is so rampant that people who leave home from their offices to work for the Government, they are busy fleecing and trying to get money. The business owner must actually find money to meet this. Apart from that, it goes all along the way from the inspectorate to absolutely everything. Corruption is eating away into the costs and it is the consumers who are actually ending up paying up for corruption. I could go to town over that.
So, Mr. Speaker Sir, the business competitiveness commission that we must actually use is the Anti-corruption Commission. I want to urge Members of this august House to do everything they can to ensure that the Anti-corruption Commission of Zimbabwe is empowered financially and politically as well to be able to do its work because it will not help and will be really wasting time in long and in short.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to add to another resource that this country has. Business competitiveness is an economic aspect and to set up a Commission again as I said, to be told common sense that you need to reduce the cost of doing business, the biggest cost drivers as my colleagues have said, the cost of infrastructure and the dilapidation of the road and rail networks - just yesterday we were told that goods trains on our tracks are travelling at the very scandalous speed of 10km per hour, I think it was the Transport Committee, outside the normal 60km per hour because the tracks and signal are so worn out.
Time is money Mr. Speaker Sir. So clearly, a train that tries to transport goods at 10kms per hour is going to cost more to the business owner who is trying to transport goods. This is common sense Mr. Speaker Sir and this Parliament produces report after report like that report of the Transport Committee. I would urge the Hon. Minister that instead of appointing this commission, to take all those Portfolio Committee reports that are presented in this august House and the recommendations seriously. If he implements just 10% of those recommendations, he will indeed see that the business competitiveness has indeed increased and not appoint this executive commission.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to point to another resource that the Hon. Minister should instead direct his good intentions to because this is common sense. We have economics students and graduates in this economy, even those who are studying economics can tell the Hon.
Minister that Zimbabwe is not short of minds and knowledge of those things that we already know. He can even utilise for free, there is a 98% unemployment rate in this country; those graduates of economics who are roaming the streets and selling tomatoes can give the Hon. Minister that information he already has, but he might want to hear from other people.
So Hon. Minister, through you Mr. Speaker Sir, this Commission is a bad idea. It is a waste of his precious ministerial time, Parliament time as well as tax payers’ money. Finally, the issue of business competitiveness, Hon. Mpariwa debated about the issue of timing. It is no secret that the politics of this country are the biggest risk factor in this country. Right now, we are in February 2017 and in less than 12 months; our country will be locked in another epic electoral battle.
Mr. Speaker Sir, judging from the levels of political violence that are occurring in our country that are coming from by-elections and so on that we have seen, we cannot begin to talk about business competitiveness and ease of doing business when you do not address those fundamentals. Let us deal with the politics. We need to address the framework to allow people to be free to express their minds politically even when we do not agree with them. If we do that, they can vote in free and fair elections and the proximity of the elections is going to be a big problem for the Hon. Minister if he does not, with his Cabinet colleagues, seriously deal with that risk factor.
I will not talk about the police and the corruption Mr. Speaker Sir.
Lastly … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order Hon. Members, there is a lot of noise in this Chamber. Lower down your conversations. If you want to continue, you go outside there and continue your discussions. Hon. Member, you may proceed.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to just say a word or two about an executive commission that the Hon. Minister seeks to create. We are a country that has a very sad history already, of just the abandonment and ignoring of even powerful organisations and institutions. We are a country that has a judiciary whose orders of court in the highest courts in the land are actually kicked left, right and centre.
I will give an example of Hon. Justice Bere’s judgment on spot fines where he interpreted the law as obvious but if you go to the streets nowadays, any street, you will find the police officers wantonly collecting fines. So, my question to the Hon. Minister that I would want him to answer is, what chance does a mere executive commission have of having its recommendations adhered to, listened to, by either himself or even anybody else if a whole arm of Government that is the judicial arm of Government can issue judgments and the police, for example, can simply ignore them? In my respective view Mr. Speaker Sir, this commission would be another crying waste of tax payers’ money when we could do other things with our money. Can the Hon. Minister utilise what we have already and listen to Parliament.
Finally, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say to the Hon. Minister in regard to this, may he perish the thought of this particular Bill and installing yet another Commission that will be redundant because it will be a Commission to tell us common sense. We have a lot of common sense in this country. We do not need a Commission that we will pay for to do that, which will also be another avenue possibly of corruption. May the Hon. Minister go back to the drawing board and start by reading the recommendations of Portfolio Committees of this Parliament and see that they are implemented. That way, business competitiveness will improve and the Hon. Minister’s headaches will be resolved. I thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. First and
foremost, I would like to express my disappointment at the attitude that ZANU PF Members of Parliament have displayed towards this debate. I think it is a very important debate. The Hon. Minister here occupies a very important position in our society as Minister of Industry and Commerce.
When we talk about competitiveness, there must be an existing industry and commerce. That is quickly disappearing in this country Mr.
Speaker. So, it is important that when the Hon. Minister comes to Parliament, he comes forward with Bills that will assist recreate industry and commerce and not destroy it. What he has presented to us this afternoon Mr. Speaker, smacks of a network of patronage, creating another monster that will devour our economy into extinction. Once upon a time Mr. Speaker, we had a viable economy in this country but where did it go to?
I listened to the Minister referring to how he is going to report to an Inter-Ministerial Committee. I thought Cabinet in itself was a complete entity and that when Cabinet makes decisions, they are well informed through the reports of a Minister. In this particular case, you see our weakness in this country is that we now have an Inter-Ministerial
Committee, kwatosara kuita Committee yemaPresidents futi.
Ndozvasara, which I think is not the right way to go about it.
When I listened to the content of what he was proposing in his Bill, I thought that the powers that he was handing over to the Commission were actually to be done by a Permanent Secretary, his deputies and directors. They are supposed to sit and come up with policies that are supposed to be followed within that Ministry to make sure that there is competitiveness in industry and commerce. When I looked at the appointment of a Commission in consultation of the President, I am sure the Minister is fully aware that what he has been trying to do is to attempt to put icing sugar on a brick and call it a cake. Just mentioning the President and then think it will do the wonders. The President does not have to be involved in this. He has to come to Parliament and we approve the board members to the Commission.
It reminds me of Masimirembwa who wanted to be honourable, who was in charge of the Price Control Commission. Every other day, people would queue on doors waiting to hear the lowered price of sugar as Hon. Maridadi has actually pointed out, and other goods. What did that do to us in 2008? It led to a total emptiness of shops in this country simply because that Commission was operating in the wrong direction.
So Mr. Speaker, the forum for negotiations and I think my colleagues have dealt with that. We do not need to create so many forums for negotiations and we should not duplicate. I am sure the Minister as he sits in Cabinet, he knows that there is a Minister responsible for those negotiations because the Tripartite Forum has a
Ministry where it is housed and produces the results that are presented in Cabinet. I am surprised that the Minister came here to try and propose another alternative.
Hon. Speaker, we have bond notes that have been produced in this country. Surprisingly enough, the US$ is disappearing from shop tills and banks. That is what the Minister and his colleagues are supposed to address, and not come here to ask us to debate over a Bill wasting our time over something that is not really necessary.
Mr. Speaker, need I remind the House that the report of the Committee was very clear. They went to Victoria Falls and nobody attended. They went to Gweru, maybe two or three people attended. Even as few as those people were Mr. Speaker, your Committee was very clear that the people were opposed to the introduction of this animal, which is being brought here as a Bill. To my surprise Mr. Speaker, I then hear the Portfolio Committee Chairman read a conclusion which I think has already been attacked by my former colleagues who have debated before me. You cannot do that to say no, no but then it was a big yes.
I beg the Portfolio Committee to withdraw its recommendation and recommend to the Minister that he should find the nearest bin and throw this Bill in there and close the bin because we do not need it in this House. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has enough on his hands. I remember and can I remind him that in September 2013, he told this House that ZISCO Steel was going to start operating by December, 2013 but up to now, nothing is happening. So Hon. Minister, may I request you to bring a Ministerial Statement on the status of ZISCO Steel instead of bringing this Bill that you brought before us. I thank you.
* HON. BUNJIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion. I am very grateful for the work done by the Committee during these Public Hearings and I am one of the people who were a Member of the Committee. What is really surprising as far as I am concerned is that all the places we visited when we talked to them about the Competitiveness Bill, it was a surprise.
In Harare, we only had one person who was knowledgeable about this Bill. When he made his contributions, he said he was not representative of all the people on such issues and Committees. In Victoria Falls, we had no one who made any contributions. In Mutare, we had people who made contributions but they told us that they had been given a short notice to attend that Public Hearing. The same statement was echoed in Masvingo and people were surprised as to the meaning and usefulness of that Public Hearing.
It surprises me because when we are talking about competitiveness looking at the people of Zimbabwe, we should be talking of competitiveness looking at the economy of the country. We should look at whether we have industries that are performing well or above the expected levels and realising profits to enable us to compete with other countries on the international markets. In that way, we can talk about competition because we will be comparing them with other countries.
Zimbabwe also has lots of technical and tertiary colleges, and we have graduates who are graduating every single year. We have those who qualify in agriculture, electrical engineering or any other engineering, even the construction industry, manufacturing and horticulture but what is happening. They graduated to be street people and not productive people. I had hoped that the Minister was going to talk about resuscitating industries and hence, jobs for these people in order that these graduates are empowered so that they can utilise their knowledge.
Mr. Speaker, I am saying let us not abuse public funds because I believe that as a Committee we abuse public funds going around on public hearings and not talking to anybody because we have no industry which we can talk about as a competitor with other international markets. Therefore, I am pleading with the Minister, please talk about resuscitating the industries and production. From there go and address corruption and after that you go to the liquidity crunch. When we have solved all those problems we can then talk of competitiveness.
For quite some time Zimbabwe has been talking about the onestop-shop and ease of doing business but all these discussions have been to no avail. We are now at a point where we are talking of National Competitive Bill Commission. This is daylight robbery; we are creating jobs for our relatives. We only want to feed on nepotism, please let us be sympathetic to our fellow Zimbabweans who are languishing in poverty and yet some of us are able to create jobs. We are living a lavish life, I plead with the Minister please create jobs for the people. We should not create a nation of vendors who run street battles with local authorities, officials and police. Please create jobs so that people have a steady income.
HON. MAHOKA: I thank you Hon. Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on the Bill introduced by the Minister. I am not going to talk much. When the Chair of the Committee went on a public hearing and heard the findings, we expected the Chair to bring the evidence and information gathered from the people and this will be included in the Minister’s Bill. We want this Bill after it has included what was gathered from the public.
I have noticed that the people who are turning down this Bill feel it is shrouded in mystery and we are saying we have no industries and no jobs and this is caused by the sanctions which were caused by our fellow members. When we talk of the potholes, we have the Mayor of Harare, Councilor Manyenyeni always talking about that. We cannot waste our time talking about an individual, all we are asking for is the Minister to go and add some flesh on to this Bill and introduce it. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker, I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. CHAMISA: I want to add my contribution Hon. Speaker
Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. I will allow Hon.
Chamisa then after that we can wind up the debate.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for that providence, I also want to thank Hon. Members for the indulgence. This is a very important debate in the sense that it has to do with our important roles as legislators and as lawmakers. We are charged in terms of both the Constitution and even in the prayer that we make in this Parliament, we are supposed to make sure that whatever we do, we do it ‘for the welfare of society and just government of men’.
So, when things come before Parliament, we have a duty to make a law which is quality and to make a law which is going to be regarded as a good law down the line in time and in space. What we do not want is to be associated in dispensation to come with a law that will not pass the test of time. This law and I have already conversed with the Hon. Minister on some of the concerns that have been raised. It is only fair that we look at the mischief that we seek to cure. We cannot just come here and start making a law which has no mischief that is known. The mischief which he has indicated, if we are to go by what the Minister has said, he said the mischief is competitiveness. With all due respect, the issue of competitiveness cannot be adequately solved by setting or changing the board that is already there. As we are speaking, there is the NIPC board, it is being paid a lot of money yet these people are not doing anything and this is the board he seeks then to resuscitate by rebranding it. It does not matter how many times you call a frog beautiful, it will remain a frog. It does not matter how much you put lipstick on a frog, it will remain a frog. We have a frog in the NIPC and this idea of trying to rebrand it to try and put mascara on its facials will not change this board. It will not change the problem we have had of a dirigistic state, a state that loves control. We cannot run a command economy, we cannot run an economy on the basis of an economic police and watchdog and this is what the Minister is trying to do.
You are aware that for 9 years this board caused tremors and chaos in the sector and this is the same thing you are going to see. It is going to be a conveyer belt of even more chaos and more terrorism on the various economic players and you do not need that because the economy cannot function on the basis of terrorism. If the economy cannot function on that basis and then putting police dogs that are going to move around haunting economists, operators and firms asking why they are doing this and not doing that. We cannot afford to do that. This is why we are appealing to the Minister. I know that the Minister is a devout Christian, he goes to the Reformed Church in Zimbabwe with Dr. Mashakada. You are a man of God, can you hear the voice of God saying this is not an appropriate policy at this particular juncture? I know that he appreciates the concerns we are raising. It is not out of hatred of this board but out of the love of our country.
I did say that our duty is to superintend over the resources of this nation. We do not want resources to be wasted unnecessarily. In fact, the better view would be to disband the NIPC and let those resources being channeled to them go to your Ministry, reduce it to a department or a division, let it be under your stewardship as a Minister. I am a lawyer and I know that there is a very important principle which says that he who has been delegated power has no power to delegate to another unless it is essentially necessary. In this case President Mugabe has given you the power to exercise certain functions. Do not further delegate those powers to any other because it is not necessary. Let us have it done under your Ministry without necessarily creating a board. It is unnecessary bureaucracy, red tape, a waste of resources and in fact an unnecessary burden on the fiscus because it is a statutory body that we seek to create.
Why are we creating it? As good law makers, we cannot come here to superintend over a bad law under our watch. We cannot do that because we know that you are a good Minister and we are good lawyers, so let us come together for a good thing to ensure that we make a good law. I plead with you Hon, Minister that let us reduce the government whereby we are over governing. Too much government can actually be dangerous. A government is best that governs least. Let us not just put our fingers all over into the pie. At times it does not help us.
Look at the SI64. I know you will say it has produced positive results but it has to be done carefully because this habit of making sure that we bring issues without the necessary support and framework will cause us fundamental problems. Let me just say that we want to protect something but when you are not producing, what are you protecting? The best way to be competitive is to produce, introduce and innovate by making sure that we have policy consistency in our policies, chlorinating our governance matrix, dealing with issues of infrastructure support and making sure that we also introduce a question of inviting stakeholders themselves through consultation. I know that industrialists were complaining about Masimirembwa’s watchdog committee which wreaked havoc. This is what you want to reintroduce, another
Masimirembwa. It is actually a perfected and rebranded committee of Masimirembwa which does not work because it is going to reproduce the same problems we want to resolve.
How do you take a patient who is in the intensive care unit into a competition? Our economy is comatose. Let us cure it, chlorinate it and deal with it before we go to issues of saying we want it to be on the pitch to compete. These issues can be resolved without any problems and I would want to urge the Minister to kindly say, “I have heard you and I will now need to go back to the drawing board.” Please listen to the wisdom of the legislators and you will see that the next time you come here we will be backing you. When the President comes here we will be backing you and you will be promoted to higher Ministry because we believe that you will have listened to your legislators. Your legislators are very clear that this is not a necessary evil. There are evils that are necessary but this evil is neither necessary nor important. In fact, it is an unnecessary evil which we do not need. May we just be humble enough not to withdraw it but to reconsider it and when you do so, you will probably give us the opportunity to then consider other issues.
In fact, what would be appropriate is to come with a suggestion to disband the NIPC and then to ensure that we realign and refocus our resources in an appropriate way. Hon. Speaker Sir, having said this, I think at the end of the day, this Parliament has a duty to make quality laws for posterity and for future generations. As Members of Parliament, we have that duty to also caution and advise our Ministers that yes, you have all the zeal but not all zeal is important. There might be need for reason and the reason we are giving, please consider it. Let us have a cross pollination of ideas, the osmosis of ideas. We are the region of higher concentration and you are the region of another concentration. Allow us to work with you Hon. Minister to appreciate our concentration because we bring the collective wisdom of our constituencies. I know that we will be able to then work together.
Let me end by urging the Minister to withdraw this Bill and reconsider it before he brings it back. I know that he is convinced and he appreciates it. This is by your House and your legislators. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 21st February, 2017.
Members having started to move out of the House.
THE HON TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon Members,
you do not move before I leave the Chair.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY
AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA), the House adjourned at
Thirteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday 21st February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 9th February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Minister, are you aware that people are sleeping in the queues at banks. When they get inside, they are given $50. This House wants to know whether this situation is going to improve. A brilliant Minister like you can tell us that by next week things will be okay.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, I never
give promises which cannot be fulfilled. Yes, I am aware that there are some challenges with respect to withdrawal of cash from the banks but I want to say that as far as I know the problem is in Harare and Bulawayo. Outside these cities there is no problem about queues. We are trying to understand why this problem is localised in Bulawayo and Harare. We are also trying to understand why this problem is localised to certain banks. You do not find this problem outside Standard Chartered or CBZ, the problem is mostly affecting CABS and POSB. It is something the Central Bank Governor is looking into, to find out what the problem really is. I thank you.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: My supplementary question Hon. Minister is, why the banks are charging us. Even if they give us $50, they still charge the same amount as when one has withdrawn more. Why can they not cut down their charges? The minimum withdrawal has gone down to $50 but they still charge us the same amount for their services.
HON. CHINAMASA: I thank Hon. Sen. Sibanda for raising this question. It is a concern which has also been raised in the Lower House and also during the debate on the Presidential Speech. There is concern about the charges that are being levied by our commercial banks. It is a matter that I have referred to the Central Bank so that they look into it and ask the banks to justify on what basis they charge such high charges for withdrawal of money. It is any issue which we are basically looking into and we will try to resolve it as soon as possible.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We have ambassadors who are out of the country, what plans do you have so that they do not abandon their duties to come and benefit in the land reform? What plans do you have in place so that they can also benefit from the land reform?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON.
MBWEMBWE): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa for the pertinent question. I want to assure you that it is a Government policy not to prejudice those who are working out of the country like the ambassadors. All those who are interested in the land, some have sent in their application and others have already been allocated land. It is our practice and policy to make sure that they are not left behind if they have interest. We have a department which sees to it that all those who will have applied; their applications are facilitated so that they are not prejudiced. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: My question is to the Minister of Education. Hon. Minister, I believe that you are changing the school curriculum but I do not remember at any stage when you called for stakeholders to come and give input into the programme. I understand that you are changing all sorts of things all by yourself in your office. What are you going to do about making sure that people believe that you are not a ‘Mohamed’ as they say, an Islamist who is trying to make every child a Moslen, when 85% of Zimbabwe is Christian – [HON. DR. DOKORA: Inaudible interjections.] – Minister I am telling you what they are saying on the ground and so, so you need to know that. You are changing the curriculum without even consulting the teachers who are going to teach the children, which is making the teachers unhappy.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order! Order, I
urge Hon. Senators not to address the House but to pose questions please.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: What are you doing to make sure that Zimbabwe which is 85% Christian stays Christian as it is and that no children are being forced to learn anything that is Moslem because it is not the religion of this country? Thank you.
HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Madam President. In spite of myself, I want to thank Hon. Senator for asking the question even though I may have exceptions to some of the terms being used to describe me in her offering. The person of the Minister is not necessarily the substance of the question. As to process, we came to this House several times indicating what we were about. On the back of the Government blue print ZIM ASSET, we were urged as a Ministry, in fact to say urged is to underplay the term. We were directed to produce a relevant curriculum for the nation.
I am very sure the Hon. Member would have remembered that there was a Presidential Commission of Inquiry into Education and Training (CIET), which His Excellency the President, Cde R.G. Mugabe commissioned in 1998 and it reported back in 1999 with far reaching recommendations. I came here and explained these matters. Come 2013 with ZIM ASSET saying, we told you we need a relevant curriculum. We retook that document with that set of recommendations and said to ourselves, if we simply move ahead and implement, we may find that some of the recommendations are out of sync with the global trends today.
So, we took that set of recommendations and some of its provision and said let us go on a consultative phase of reproducing that relevant curriculum. Those who have memories will remember 28 November, 2014 we said every school and local hall should be transferred into a consultation space so that parents freely would go there, voice their ideas and give their input to the process. Subsequent to that, we produced a summary of that input at that stage. Then being led by our team leaders or experts in the various fields of learning, we developed a zero draft out of those presentations and inputs. The zero draft is what we then took back. We had breakfast and community meetings based on that zero draft. Out of that zero draft which was being tested to and fro, we then eventually were able to produce a curriculum framework for primary and secondary education.
It is that which we shared with the relevant Portfolio Committee and we made statements on the floor of the House indicating what stage we were on. It is in three phases; phase one was the inception which was the period between Cabinet decision in September, 2015 and December of that same year where we simply made efforts to identify our key stakeholders and inform them. In fact, some of you might remember because I remember there were some Hon. Members of this House or the other House, who participated in the ‘Mai Chisamba Show’ where we had huge crowds wanting to participate in the debate as it was being steered by Mai Chisamba.
Anyway, I said it had three phases; the initial phase which was relating to 2015, then phase one which was 2016 where we had handbooks for teachers, production of syllabi for the various disciplines and then also, a call to the publishers to partner the Ministry on this journey. A lot of the publishers have produced very useful and critical texts that accompany, especially the newer areas of the new curriculum and then of course, 2017 is phase two.
So we are already in phase two which is the operationalisation in the classroom for specified grades, not everyone. We have said ECD A, Grades One and Three in primary schools. The rest remain on the old curriculum. Then when you go to secondary, it is Forms 1, 3 and 5. The rest remain on the old curriculum. We have set up an implementation, evaluation and monitoring team which will accompany this process as part of a plan or design. So, if you go to a school today, there are teachers who will be talking to the old curriculum and there are teachers who will be speaking to the new curriculum. It is not a sign of confusion, it is by design. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you for that elaborate answer, but Minister, to the best of my knowledge the teachers are not happy because they are saying that they were not consulted, neither were they trained to teach this new curriculum. I am speaking on my own behalf and I do not know on behalf of how many other Senators in this Chamber that we are not aware of that consultation that you are describing. I personally would have been very interested because I have grandchildren that are beginning their education and I would have taken great interest because I am an academic person myself.
I do not remember any such consultations taking place as we have heard about other Commissions that normally take place. I never heard about a new Curriculum Commission taking place where parents and grandparents were invited to come and give their input. I would have been there. If you have any such, please can we see the original documents that you are referring to and what was said in them. Minister, I want to tell you that there is great unhappiness amongst the parents and teachers about the new curriculum that you are introducing. It is really not considered necessary or acceptable in the education system of Zimbabwe today. Thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: May I again
please remind Hon. Senators not to address the House. You are using up time for questions. Pose the questions to the Ministers.
*HON. SEN. SHIRI: Thank you Madam President of the Senate.
My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development. We want to know the Government policy on the Constituency Development Fund. How far is it looking at the disability constituency which is the largest of all the constituencies? Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Hon. Senator
for you question. Let me say that if we say a constituency, we are referring to the 210 constituencies were people were elected. So, the Constituency Development Fund is targeting those constituencies which are geographical, which have boundaries - that is what we are supporting. The money that would have been put in the Budget will be given to those constituencies. Each constituency will be getting US$50 000 which will go towards the development of projects within that geographical area. I thank you Madam President of the Senate.
*HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President of the
Senate. The Minister has articulated well but what measures can they take to include Senators so that they become part and parcel of the management of the CDF.
*HON. CHINAMASA: What I am seeing is that when we get to
the ground this issue that has been brought up – we really want to look into that issue. We will look at how Members of Parliament chosen in that area will work in conjunction with their Senators. There are some Members of Parliament who do not work well with their Senators. We encourage that each and every Member of Parliament is under the Senator because he knows that he or she is covering a number of constituencies. Members of Parliament should know that whatever projects they are engaged in, they should call in the Senator and move together. If the Senator overseas three constituencies, all those members should call the Senator so that they work together, that is what we encourage. Nothing will move if the Senator will take his or her own way and the Member of Parliament will be doing another thing. They must not do anything without the knowledge of the other. We talk about it in our Caucus that Members of Parliament must work with their Senators for things to go well. If a Senator is not being alerted this should be channeled through the parties so that you will work amicably.
I thank you.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President of Senate.
My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. Why was Bulawayo and Harare excluded in the feeding scheme? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): From the onset Madam
President, the design of the school feeding programme was meant to capture the infant, to respond to nutritional deficiencies and hardships that we also reflected in the drought pattern of our country. However, Cabinet did agree to the plan that we put forward that we must ensure that the infants who are being fed cover the whole country. Quite clearly there are more pressing areas than others. The urban area is one such area in pockets, not everywhere is it universal; is an area where some of the schools are better endowed than others and we have urged those schools to conform to school feeding.
They have since begun to receive the support that is coming from Government. If there is ration for rice then the whole set of schools, urban, rural and farming – they receive that ration. If there is mealiemeal or grain, then they will also receive that. It is a little less on the monetary side to secure the relish but that is again where we are saying the communities through the SDC structures will assist by ensuring that at least some relish is available, not to boil the grain and give to children but to provide for this. Hopeful in May this year according to our plan we must scale it up to cover the junior school which is from Grade 3 to Grade 7. Again we want to continue the partnership with the parents as well as my colleague on the right here continuing to support us in some measure. When I see a lot of green maize in the fields, I am happy for my school children.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Madam President of the
Senate. My supplementary is based on your reference to School Development Associations or committees in feeding the children. How the schools going to manage school funds which are going to manage as SSF in one Government account as being discussed in the schools? I thank you.
HON. DR. DOKORA: Madam President of the Senate. I do not
see any conflictual circumstances there. If we are accessing SSF as a school at Chihuri Primary School I do not see the reason why that school - why that money cannot be applied towards that. At the moment what is going in the SSF is merely the tuition component which is the component which they use to buy pencils, exercise books and so on. The larger levy which we regulate is going into a separate account but we have already indicated in the floor of the National Assembly that we have been consulting and I hope the Hon. Senator has been part of these consultations. We have been consulting on the amendment to the Education Act in pursuit of the harmonization of the statutory instruments which Governs the Government Schools and the Statutory Instrument which governs the non Government Schools. We want to unify and harmonise these so that we speak of a registered school and then the law applies equally. Then we can encourage transparency and we can also ensure there are some core signatories. I am sure the financial experts are working on how this can be achieved. Then the parents post their resources to this common fund to which the school head is at signatory and the parents representatives have a signatory.
Some such arrangement is indeed under development. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you very much Madam
President. Before I pose my question I want to thank you and to thank the Deputy Minister of Information Media and Broadcasting Services for a job well done. Vakanwza nokiuita, toda kuzvitenda.
My question is directed the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs Hon.
Mguni. Minister we need clarification what is Government policy regarding the problem in the country which is rampant - the drug problem, especially in different areas. You find kids sitting on bridges and down the streams and other areas. What is the Government’s policy in fighting of this drug addiction amongst our youths. We know we have the security of the country so how are these drugs imported into the country? do we have a porous boarder anywhere?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President. The police - their objective is to prevent, detect and stop any criminal activities within the country and even abroad, through Interpol. The drug issue is a world syndrome that is challenging all under-developed countries. However, when you look at where the drugs are manufactured it is counties like Columbia, Brazileven Mozambique where there are plants. They are flooding into the country like Zimbabwe through the border or boundaries were we have very weak boundaries without security barriers. By security barriers I mean that some of the parts within the country we have got rivers like
Limpopo, Zambezi where people cannot just cross but if you go to the eastern side you can drive your cattle and walk across. A lot of people think they will come through the official border post. No, they are areas where there just cross into a country without being detected.
However, we have implemented new technology. We are bridging in the drones that are able to fly, patrolling along the border post. We have an inter Ministerial committee which involves. Finance and other ministries like Ministry of Mines where now we are buying those machines so that they can fly to take care of those boundaries to see who is crossing so that we search those people. Most of the drug carriers are using such areas. However, the fight against drugs is not only with the police, it is also with the public as we are. We need to identify places where we are suspecting that there could be drugs and there could be drug trading and then we report to the nearest police station covering that area so that we arrest those culprits.
Also the Hon. Senator asked what plans we have. We are also interested to join forces with the educational centre so that rehabilitation centers are opened because so of the children are already indulging in drugs and are already over dosed. They need to go to a certain centre where they are rehabilitated and then be taken back to the community. I thank Madam President. –[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
SEN. HON. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Minister of Agriculture. Minister, on command agriculture, farmers did not get their fertilizers on time and as a result some of their crops are now stunted. Are they going to be compensated? On the same programme again the maize varieties that were distributed countrywide are the same - 6 series, even in region 5. Do you think that you are going to get maximum yields? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (DR. MADE): ThanK you
Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi. First of all, on the aspect of the adequacy of inputs under Command Agriculture - it is not only fertilizers, just for me to add. It could be may be herbicides in some cases or even in some cases, fuel. This is a matter that we are discussing.
We are fully aware that as embarked on this exercise we had to go through some learning process also, but specifically on fertilizer - top dressing fertilizer has been quite a challenge, it is not only under Command but it is also under the Presidential inputs and also the general farmers. There are some farmers who have to support themselves, not everybody is under Command. So it is a matter that we will look into, we are monitoring every farm where a farmer committed themselves to Command Agriculture.
Madam President , on the second aspect of the maize seed I, want to say that for the first time where we were also saying when you look at seed varieties - I want to assist a little bit more on that SEEDCO has breeding approach that separates long term, medium term and short term in their breeding strategy. As when you look at other breeders, particularly Pioneer, PANAR , they do not separate the traits, they leave all the traits in one plant because physiologically the plant is self regulating. Whenever the conditions are ideal, it will push to higher yields and the conditions are not only moisture. It is both moisture, fertilizer and land preparation. They are many and this is a subject that is technical but I want Senate Members to understand that that is how the breeding process is.
So, when conditions are ideal like this year when the rainfall has generally been good across, it is just the potential of the seed that will now depend on either fertilizer or weeding and so on. It is not a major issue but the farmers that were under command got the long season variety either from Panner, Pioneer or Seedco. In complimenting the farmers, I also want to say we all can see that most of the maize is from the long season varieties. Even from the drier parts of the country and we are expecting a much better yield particularly under command, barring fertilizer shortage, most of the farmers will achieve more than the five tonnes per hectare. There are farmers that are going to achieve ten tonnes, and some will achieve eleven to twelve tonnes. I must commend the farmers for the way they have worked. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. Meanwhile,
I slightly agree to what you have just told us. You will find that we have got areas like Beitbridge which has just received below average rainfall.
They are on command agriculture and they do not even have that fertilizer as we speak now. I do not really understand the way you are putting things because if you are just saying it as a blanket statement, it is fine, but we have to consider areas in low lying rainfall areas and what we are going to do about them. Thank you.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam President, it is clearly understood that we monitor rainfall. We all know that Beitbridge area or the general area has not received adequate rainfall. We have that information. In those areas, command agriculture is supposed to be under irrigation and not dry land cropping. The situation of Beitbridge is very well-known. Even as we talk of the high rainfall elsewhere, the rainfall at Beitbridge has been very poor. So, it is a specific case. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Thank you Madam President. My supplementary is on the yields accruing from the command agriculture. Is there any percentage set aside for GMB?
HON. DR. MADE: Madam President, I want to assume that under command agriculture Hon. Senator Chief, there is no percentage set for GMB. Under command, you are given a loan. The command inputs are not for free. You have to pay and the minimum set is five metric tonnes per hectare. That is what you take to the GMB. From that five tonnes per hectare, you could have taken inputs that are equivalent to two tonnes when the calculations are done. The two tonnes will offset the loan that you were given. The three tonnes is yours.
So, there can never be any percentage set for GMB. GMB is administering the recovery of the loan. We cannot talk of anything set aside for GMB. Farmers are not growing for GMB. GMB is the institution that we are using to recover the cost that relates to what you would have taken under command agriculture. In some cases, your loan could be above the five tonnes but generally, from the way we worked all the figures, remember we are the ones who set the input cost per hectare.
So I think in the affirmative, there is no money deducted by GMB per se to say this is a fee to GMB. GMB is administering the recovery of the loan under command agriculture. I hope that I have made that one very clear. We do not want the impression that GMB is taking maize from the farmers for the sake of taking. No, you filled the forms under command and if there is anything that was so elaborate was the structure of the administration of the loan. I think they are about five forms that were filled under command and the portion that relates to GMB is very clear. All the farmers under command were not handled as a group, they were handled individually. This is what I want to emphasise. Thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: The Minister said we are expecting a bumper harvest this year because there is going to be more production than usual because of the rains. My question is, there are only three silos which have been reported out of 12 that are said to be functioning. Has the Minister done something to prepare for this harvest which is expected to be high so that there is going to be continuous food available after the harvest for the development of this country because without food, if we cannot think of how to store our food, we will keep on asking what has been done to prepare the silos which are not functioning?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Senators,
ask questions please or else next time I will just ask you to please resume your seat. We need to give a chance to a lot of Senators who are eager to pose questions. Pose your question and wait for your answer.
There is no need to address the House.
HON. DR. MADE: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator. I also want to appreciate ZBC. I think ZBC carried some clarification to the nation. When we talk of silos, there should be a clear separation of the cylindrical silos that we know. Bulawayo, Lions’ Den, Murehwa and so on; those silos operate in two parts. The whole body of the silo must be inspected all the time to see when it rains that there are no cracks and so on, so that whatever is inside, moisture does not go in. The second aspect is the mechanism inside that moves the grain or turns it around. The silos, as reported, are in different forms of either disrepair or repair and I am happy to say that those silos, when we look at them, the most operating silo is Aspindale because at Aspindale, we also deal with third party storage as well.
The Bulawayo one is the most critical for the southern part of the country. That one already is in a state of repair. We have been working on that particular one. The other silos that have not been receiving grain because for the past years, most probably, we have not been harvesting as much, are now under the process of just being inspected and making sure that they are fully operating. The capacity total is 700 000 metric tonnes. That is what I want to point out.
The second set of storage under the Grain Marketing Board and which is the biggest is the stacks of maize that you see and then the tarpaulins. The space prepared for that is 3 million metric tonnes. That is what we can store under that. The critical thing under that are the poles that we arrange at the bottom and then the tarpaulins themselves and then the grain bags. So, already the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) has been given resources to the tune of US$5 million to prepare both for the grains as well as the tarpaulins. So, the process is on and I am saying that is 3 million metric tonnes.
Then you have got the shades. We also have shades that have a roof and that can handle 150 000 metric tonnes to 200 000 metric tonnes of grain. I want to emphasise that under Command Agriculture, they are the ones who are working with the GMB to make sure that we have adequate storage, including bringing in of the grain bags. So, safely, I think, we will be able to handle the grain that will be harvested.
Now, you might say the 3 million metric tonnes plus the 700 000 metric tonnes and the 200 000 metric tonnes, it is not only maize that is handled under the GMB, it includes also wheat, soya bean, ground nuts, coffee, when the coffee crop is on, sugar beans and the small grains. So, that is why we are in that state of preparedness in terms of the strategic development of the grain facilities. I thank you.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: I wanted to ask the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. There is this worm which invaded our country. Are you containing it and how much damage has it caused?
HON. DR. MADE: I want to thank the Hon. Senator for asking that question. Firstly, I want to say that the worm she is referring to is the fall armyworm. It is different from the traditional armyworm that we have known before. The fall armyworm is the most elusive, I can say, of the pests in its behaviour and most difficult to control. Its origins are the major maize producing belts of South and Central America. This is where it originates from. In Africa, it was first recognised in the areas of West Africa some years back and of recent, in the belts of Zambia, then onto Zimbabwe and now, into South Africa.
So, from a technical point of view, what is very important is for the farmers to be always scouting and I will not go into the technical details, but the fundamental issue is that farmers are inspecting their fields everyday maybe two or three times a day. The farmers must do that working with the extension people to see if there is any invasion. It is easier to control it when it is still early on because of its feeding habits. It feeds and goes inside the stem whereas the normal armyworm is on the leaves. Once they have finished with the leaves, they move on.
The fall armyworm goes inside and once your crop is grown, it is very difficult to spray. Because of that habit, you must really get it before it goes inside. It develops to about seven stages very rapidly and at each stage, it is very difficult to deal with. So far, we are busy on it and in some areas we are managing. Now, all the countries that have been affected will be meeting here in Harare to try and look at the problem in terms of the sub region, to try and get recommendations on what we can do to control it.
Unfortunately, I must point out that the fall armyworm literally feeds on every plant, not only the plants that we grow, but also in the veld. So, it can also be on grasses that are similar to the crops that we grow. It can also be on vegetables – we must take note of that. It can also be in sugar cane. So, we are also most alert on sugar cane because once it goes into the sugar cane, you know the structure of sugar cane, it is also very difficult to control, but we are on alert on that.
I want to emphasise that it is one of the most difficult to deal with, but if we continue the way we are doing, we will win in a way, but it is the most notifiable pest and it is a pest that we also put under quarantine. In terms of if you are exporting, this is one of the things that is looked at, say we are exporting vegetables or we are exporting any plants that are alive, if we are exporting any live material. So, we have to work around the clock to deal with it. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. May you please tell me what is holding back the completion of the project of the CID? It has been going on for almost twenty years. Why are we failing to complete it because it is on the peripheries.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Madam President. I am also grateful to the Hon. Senator who asked this question. What the problem really is in failing to complete this building project is that we have economic hardships in the country. There is a liquidity crunch. We need to accumulate enough funds and capital to complete the construction of this building. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that we extend Questions
Without Notice by ten minutes.
HON. SEN. CHABUKA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: My question is directed to the
Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. You have informed this august House that you are failing to complete the CID building because of the liquidity crunch, but you are promising the nation that there are going to be many buildings which are going to be constructed by your Ministry throughout the country. Why do you not first of all complete existing projects before you embark on new ones?
*HON. CHINGOSHO: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking this supplementary question. The buildings which the Ministry is promising to launch, these are buildings which are not going to be constructed using funds from the Treasury, Ministry or
Government but we have individual organisations and persons who will be putting money into the construction of these houses. These are the people who are giving money to the Government and Government has to construct the houses for those individuals. I promise you, should Government have enough money, we will definitely complete those outstanding building projects.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: My question is still directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Minister, we are talking of land barons. These are the people who are allocated State land to construct houses and sell them to beneficiaries. Are these land barons going to pay any levies, taxes or any amount to show that they are grateful because they are given this land free of charge, yet they have a turnover of millions and millions of dollars. Are they paying anything to the coffers of the State?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Madam President and Hon. Senator Chief Charumbira for this noble question. Let me respond to you from the onset and say clearly and bluntly, that these land barons are not paying anything to the State. When we talk of the derogatory term ‘land baron’, it means this individual is using the State land without any permission. They are breaking the law and what we have now agreed on is that whenever we hear of a land baron, these people have to be arrested from the onset because the State and the local authority are not benefitting anything. As I speak to this august House, we have some of these land barons who have been arrested and are appearing before our courts of law for trial and conviction.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic
Development. On the report that I am holding here - the Public Service
Commission Report for 2015, there are recommendations that they proposed here as measures to reduce the wage bill and projected savings. They go from 1 – 34. I would like to know from you which measures you have taken and used since they recommended that every year you can save $388 729 012. I want to know which ones you have taken and used since this report is for 2015. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Member
for her question. Firstly, I am not privy to the report that you are referring to. I would suggest that this question can better be handled if you ask it in written form so that I can go and investigate and be able to give you a comprehensive answer.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: This one I think he can respond to because it is an item on reducing the wage bill. I would like to know Minister, Zimbabwe is now 37 years after independence. Why do we still have benefits like school fees paid for children of war veterans? Are they still bearing children? Do they still have school going children because we are trying to save?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I am aware Madam
President, that Central Government has a responsibility to look after the welfare of war veterans and pay the school fees for their children. So, for as long as these are their children we have a responsibility. I am aware that we may not have been honouring that responsibility as we should but the responsibility is one which we assumed and we are quite satisfied that the school fees we are paying are for children of war veterans because war veterans have been verified. There is a database of the war veterans and their children which is also verified using their birth certificates. I have no doubt that when resources are applied towards disbursement for the school fees for children of war veterans, basically the money is going where it should go. I thank you.
* HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: My question goes to the Deputy
Minister of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development.
Minister, how far have you gone in establishing a Women’s Bank and what are the publicity methods that you have taken towards this?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Let me say compliments of the new season to thyself and the Hon. Senators. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Yes, the Women’s Bank is on its feet. As I stand here, the directors have been put in place using the statutes from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and have been approved by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. They have had their workshops and training. That is the first part of the answer.
Also, we are waiting for the product which goes into the bank so that when we open, people can consume from the contents of the bank. This is the stage where we are. It is not long before we invite people to come and witness the launch of the women’s bank. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
DEBTS OWED BY THE GOVERNMENT
- HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to provide the House with detailed figures as at
30th September, 2016 of –
- the comprehensive foreign debt inclusive of interest accrued;
- domestic loans debt and who these are owed to;
- parastatals debts that Government has committed to take over;
- individuals and/or company debts covered by ZAMCO to date;
- Treasury Bills commitments including any that may have been rolled over; and
- any other debt owed by Government not covered by these specified above.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President of the
Senate, my apologies the question was not brought to my attention
before I came here. So, I respectfully ask that the question be deferred to next week, my apologies.
GOVERNMENT POLICY ON ADULT EDUCATION
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to inform the Senate, what Government policy is regarding Adult Education in Zimbabwe.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. President of the Senate. The Ministry views Non-Formal Education (NFE) as an effective alternative pathway for addressing the educational needs of learners in particular circumstances. NFE provides a higher degree of flexibility for learners who want to acquire academic and life skills outside the formal system.
In 2015, the Ministry re-launched the expanded National NonFormal Education policy and provided guidelines, implementation strategy and expected outcomes. The policy reaffirms Government’s commitment to increasing access to education for Zimbabweans and facilitating the fulfillment of the learning needs and basic rights of all learners in line with the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
The Ministry will lead the implementation of this policy with support from various stakeholders, including other governments ministries and agencies, the private sector and development partners, as well as the nation at large.
The forms that NFE takes include ODL (Open and Distance
Learning), part-time and continuing education and basic literacy skills. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education coordinates the study groups through school heads and coordinators. Special programmes can be run by any of our clusters as per request from concerned stakeholders.
CAUSES OF EARLY CHILD MARRIAGES
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development:
(a) to explain the real causes of early child marriages in Zimbabwe. (b) to indicate the plans the Ministry has put in place to end early child marriages, particularly in rural areas.
- to inform the Senate whether the Ministry has embarked on education awareness in prisons where most women are incarcerated as a result of rape and theft convictions;
- to inform the Senate, what measures the Ministry has put in place to make sure that women in prisons get adequate sanitary wear during their terms of saving;
- to clarify whether the Ministry has any policy relating to the monitoring of the use of condoms by females in the institutions of higher learning.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS,
GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Thank you Deputy President of the Senate. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. What will happen is, we want to bring a comprehensive response next week. We say so because there is an inter-ministerial Cabinet Committee which has been established which comprises of six ministries that look at the issue surrounding this question which has got five sub-sections. Just for argument sake, for instance, the issue of condoms falls under the Ministry of Health and Child Care which is a member of the six interministerial Cabinet Committee. So, we have to do it collectively and bring a comprehensive answer to the elders and the likes of the Senate and the chiefs around here. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President Sir, with
leave of the Senate, I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 9 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 10 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, it is my privilege to move the second reading of the appropriation Bill for this year. The purpose of this Bill is to give effect to the main Estimates of Expenditure for the year ending 31 December, 2017 which I tabled to this august House on 8 December, 2016.
Clause 3 of the Appropriation (2017) 2016 Bill charges the Consolidated Revenue Fund with a sum of US$3, 426, 289, 000, 00 which relates to the 2017 Vote Appropriations.
The Vote appropriations seek to ensure realisation of the overall objectives of the Zimbabwe Agenda for Sustainable Socio-Economic Transformation ZIM ASSET 2013-2018 programmes and projects under implementation by Government.
The 2017 Budget policy measures include among others:-
- Enhancing production across all sectors of the economy through giving greater and more urgent attention towards the supply side interventions;
- Strengthening of social safety nets in support of vulnerable groups in line with the objectives of our Interim Poverty
Reduction Strategy Paper (IPRSP) for 2016-2018;
- Containment of expenditures, particularly employment costs in order to re-orient the thrust of fiscal expenditures towards infrastructure development, particularly in the Energy, Water, Transport and ICTs subsectors.
Section 5 (1) of the Bill empowers the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to transfer funds already approved by Parliament between Votes in respect of the a function or responsibility transferred between Ministries and Departments during the course of the Fiscal Year.
Section 5 (2) of the Bill allows the discretion to the Minister of
Finance Economic Development to transfer funds from the Unallocated
Reserve which appears on the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development Vote to any other Vote as and when the need arises in order to meet inescapable expenditures.
In addition, and if necessary, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development can vary the amounts so transferred by taking back any surplus for reallocation to other Ministries to meet demands that may arise. Madam President Sir, I accordingly move that the Bill be now read a second time.
HON. SEN CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. President.
may I thank the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, for his now usual well presented work and always pointing to a man who is working very hard and certainly giving confidence to the country that things will get better. Commenting to this Bill in general not specific I think when you have Vote 33 to 41 I think those are Constitutional Appropriations in terms of Section 305 (3) of the Constitution. For structural purposes in future I think we need to indicate that 33 to 41 are in fact Constitutional Appropriations in terms of the Constitution 315 (3) because that separates a different allocation directed by the Constitution.
Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. Just a short comment, the Minister has indicated that this is a year we are growing the economy. We have an important activity that is coming next year, that is harmonised elections. Do you intend to virement or set aside funds because when you look at the funds allocated for all the elections some $9 million, that is not adequate. We are talking of the preparation which is in 2017 before 2018. I am not too sure how the Minister would want to handle that aspect. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank Mr. President. just a few comments which seek clarification. We stated as a country that we want to maximize on our mineral returns. I have just lent somebody my Bill. I think I suspect you have allocated $9 million to the Ministry responsible for mining. Correct me if I am wrong, but the figure is still small. How are we going to leverage on that small amount of money?
That is the first comment.
My second comment is we have seen a bit of drama in the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education and having worked with NAMACO myself, I am concerned that people are taking advantage of the limited lee-way that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development or the Statutory Instruments give them and abusing that facility. Can the Minister assure us that the moneys coming out ZIMDEF, are properly supervised? Secondly, that they will be directed to the core business and if you could explain why we have seen a redirection to non core business if not business completely outside the scope of ZIMDEF. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you very much Mr. President. Minister, first I would want to commend you on the some superb work you are doing within this particular Ministry. Honestly, it is superb. I know you are struggling under very difficult conditions. My observation is that Parliament initially has been extended, we used to be 210 in the Seventh Parliament but now, we are more than 300 but the Budget of Parliament seems to be consistently decreasing and challenged by additional Honourable Members. I do not know, perhaps you will consider it because to me it appears to be insufficient. When we were at the seminar in Bulawayo, we made some recommendations that it should be reconsidered. I do not know exactly. Perhaps you will have a relook on it in terms of the figures that I see, which seems to be lower than the challenges that it faces. For all the time under the Ministry of Gender, it appears that you were always allocating less than 1%. Sometimes, instead of $10 million, you used to give it just $2 million but, bearing in mind that it is a challenging Ministry and a lot of work has to be done by that Minister.
I know that you are aware that from time immemorial, this department really has a record of people who are complaining that it has to be upgraded. We have got a mammoth task in terms of the challenges that are within this department. Perhaps you will consider or you could inform this august House how you will move forward with these Votes. I want to thank you very much.
+HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Thank you Mr. President. People have already shown gratitude towards the sterling work which you have done in crafting the budget. I will stick to the figures that I realised in the Bill. There is an outcry on the police about the spot fine. I think you will do the understanding of public opinion. This is because when you allocate funds to a Ministry that is getting all the resources from the public, the Ministry should have the Treasury money from the citizens as a mandate other than letting the police officers collecting money, whereas, you have to budget for that Ministry and allocate a Vote of large sums of money.
So Minister, I am really concerned that you are not listening to public opinion about the issue of spot fines, and the issue of that Ministry getting enough because you will always say they are collecting on behalf of the Treasury. Let the police officers go to their core business. There are so many things that are happening and the police are concentrating now. They are sharpening their appetites on collecting money more than anything else. I am concerned when you make Votes to that Ministry, it is having a lot of money. Earlier on you said you did not see the report that I was referring to. I could see that I there is so much duplication of services by the three Ministries. The Ministry of Agriculture has Extension workers and the Ministry of Youth and Indigenisation has the same workers, the same applies to the Ministry of Women Affairs. According to this report, if you assign and cut these positions, some of them are ghost positions. You would realise a lot of money other than every time you give the Votes to the same Ministries, but they always complain that they do not get all the money that you budget for.
So, it is just a comment because it is unfortunate that I left my Bill. You could tell this House how you are going to deal with the issues of growing the cake. These must be the issues that we are talking about in this House. I stay in the rural areas and in the ward that I am staying, I realise that there are 8 ward coordinators from the Ministry of Youth. I can even given you their names and addresses. I do not see what they are doing. All what I see is that they go to the bank and get paid. When we are talking of the budget, we want our Minister to at least look and listen to what the public might expect to see as a way forward and as a way of growing the cake. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Mr. President. I
would want to thank the Hon. Senators for their contributions. I will do my best to clarify some of the issues that they have raised. Senator Chief Charumbira, you raised this issue about separating Votes. Votes 33 to 41, used to be put as sub-heads under line Ministries. You raised this issue and we have now separated it. I think this is in line with your suggestion with the constitutional requirements. What you are now saying is that we should indicate specifically that these are constitutional appropriations. I am sure that the officers who are here will bear that in mind when they next draft the Appropriation Bill.
Senator Chimhini, I think I missed your contribution and I am sorry.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question relates to the Vote for
ZEC.
HON. CHINAMASA: Okay, thank you. I got it. With ZEC, we are very much on top of the situation. This year, they should commence in a very short period of time biometric voter registration exercise which we are funding. We expect that exercise to cost us around $12 to $15 million. It has not yet been established. The money for it will come in the unallocated reserve because we were not specific. We have to procure equipment to undertake this exercise.
At this juncture, we are not yet sure because there is a tendering process. We are not yet sure what the cost of the equipment is going to be. We decided that we make provision for it in the unallocated reserve. So, we are on top of the situation. The actual cost of conducting the elections next year will be provided for in the 2018 Budget. I want to assure Hon. Senators that the funding and financing of our elections will be taken care of and the issue is under control.
Senator Sibanda, thank you for your question with respect to the Ministry of Mines. On the Ministry of Mines, I have good news and also bad news with respect to the performance of the mining sector. The good news is that gold, platinum, chrome and nickel has been performing well. Coal is not performing well and diamonds is almost as good as dead, which is why Mr. President Sir, the focus between my Ministry and the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, is to try to focus on resuscitating the diamond sector and everything will be done to ensure that we do so.
The other sector that we should exploit optimally this year is the chrome sector. From a price range of around US$60 or even less per metric tonne, the price, I understand, in the world market has risen to something like US$170 per metric tonne, which is very good. So, it is very incumbent upon us to exploit and make sure that we maximise our
returns.
The issue, Senator Sibanda, you raise about ZIMDEF and so on, if I could seek your indulgence and the indulgence of the House, this is a matter which is subjudice , it is in the courts and I would not want to comment on it until that is resolved. What I can only say is that Treasury will ensure that all funds, not only the ZIMDEF, but all funds, do perform or are used for the purpose for which those funds were established. So, other than that, I would not want to say anything further.
Senator Makore, thank you very much. Yes, I think what Hon. Senators need to understand about this budget is that much of these allocations are going to wages. Ninety percent and above are going to wages with very little going to operations and capital formation. What I have been doing is to fund capital development, mostly through loan financing and the examples abound. We are talking about Kariba South, that is being funded through loan financing. We are also talking about Hwange 7 and 8 when it is concluded. It is also loan financing. The only element which is different about Hwange 7 and 8 from Kariba South is that there is a 15% component of equity participation. That also has been agreed upon.
The Beitbridge – Harare Road, we have put it to a concession and the company should do a ground breaking ceremony any time so that work on that project can start. We are basically surrendering any revenue that we are going to earn from toll fees on that road towards the construction of the road. The contractor will bring in its money, but recoup its investment over a long period of time. I think almost up to 25 years. I do not have the exact period right now. So, that is how we have been creative in financing capital expenditure.
So, the long and short of it is that clearly, yes, we have insufficient money to pay anyway. Whether you are talking about the Ministry of
Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development, the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment or the Ministry of Sports and Recreation, we just do not have the resources to pay other than meeting the costs of labour, the employment costs, which is why I want always to ask this august House to support us so that we change that structure.
That structure is not sustainable, where 90% and above of your revenue is going to wages. We have to work together to reduce the level of expenditure vis a vis revenue to at least around 50% to 55% of revenue going to wages and I have already, on many occasions, indicated that we are pursuing two avenues to achieve that. One avenue is rationalisation of the wage bill and some of the remarks made by Hon. Senator Mlotshwa are part and parcel of that rationalisation. She mentioned youth officers, women’s officers and also in the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. Some of the decisions that we took as a committee, that is Minister Mupfumira and I, are addressing those issues and we are hoping that by the year 2019, we should have at least succeeded to reduce the wage bill proportion from the current 95% /99% to somewhere around 50% to 55%.
Of course, the other avenue we are taking to reduce the wage bill is to grow the cake and the main thrust of my 2017 Budget is basically to increase production across all sectors of the economy. If we grow that cake and the wage bill remains stable as it has been, it will then achieve its right proportion within a bigger cake and it is basically something we are trying to do. So, Hon. Senator Mlotshwa, I think I have already answered with respect to the rationalisation measures that we are taking to reduce the wage bill.
There are many things and I think you mentioned about 36 of them. As you know, the wage bill in any country is a very sensitive affair and it is not something that you can reduce overnight. You have to look at it as a process. Even here in Parliament, if we say we want to reduce your salaries, I know you will kick me out of this House straight away. So, we need to understand that sensitivity and find ways which are market friendly, so to speak, to do so.
The issue raised about spot fines – I think clearly spot fines will remain as long as we have got drivers who commit crimes when they are driving their vehicles on the road. You must expect police to mount roadblocks where they check your speed, the condition of your vehicle and over speeding is a crime for which a spot fine is fixed. Any mechanical defect on your vehicle is also a crime. You should not move with a car without breaks. So, if the police find that you are driving a car without breaks, they will fine you and they will collect the fine. What we are seeking to do though is to improve on the collection of those spot fines so that we eliminate any corruption. We are seeking to computerise and connect the roadblock to ZINARA, to the Vehicle Registry and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, so that as you get to a roadblock, and you identify yourself or the car, they can tell at the roadblock whether that car is licenced, for instance and if it is not licenced, what would be the appropriate measures to take.
They can also tell when you give them your driver’s licence that you have been convicted of negligent driving before and you did not pay the fine, or you did not serve the sentence. Thus, we are hoping we will go quite some way to minimise the corruption.
HON. SENATOR MLOTSHWA: On a point of order, Mr.
President, we have a stranger in the House.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: It is one of the people from ZBC.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): So, I was just going on to
my next point, Mr. President that we have intensified accountability of any funds which are retained by those authorities which collect revenue or which collect fines. In the 2016 Budget, we insisted that those funds should be banked as sub accounts under the consolidated revenue fund at the central bank and that was done end of January. So as we sit in Treasury, we know what amounts are in any of these accounts because they are centralised at the Central Bank. I have a right as Treasury, to raid any of those accounts to meet any expenditure or virement to the extent possible. We believe we now have complete control over these funds which are now by directive banked in the Central Bank and not in other commercial banks over which we had no knowledge of.
With this response, I now move that the Appropriation Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
APPROPRIATION (2017) BILL [H.B. 14A, 2016]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 5, put and agreed to
Schedule with Votes 1 – 41, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
APPROPRIATION (2017) BILL [H.B. 14A, 2016]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, I move that
the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the House adjourned at Twenty Seven Minutes past Four o’ clock p.m until Tuesday, 14th February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 21st February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE
DEATH OF HON. SEN. VICTOR MAPUNGWANA
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: It is with profound
sorrow that I have to inform the Senate of the death of Hon. Sen. Victor
Mapungwana, Senator for Bulawayo Metropolitan Province on Friday, the 17th of February, 201&. Therefore, I invite Hon. Senators to rise and observe a minute of silence in respect of the late Hon. Senator.
All Hon. Senators observed a minute of silence.
SECOND READING
LAND COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 2A, 2016]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on the Second Reading of the Land
Commission Bill [H. B. 2A, 2016].
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President. I want
to add a few words on this Bill which was brought in by the Hon. Minister. I heard a lot of Hon. Senators saying that we should assess people who are being resettled, where they come from but I think we all remember that this land issue is there to bring balance to things which were not in good place from 1890 to 1980 when we were colonised. It looks like we are forgetting what happened, that there where chiefs who were removed from their places where they were staying. For example, if you go to Mwenezi, you will find the chief there called Masentesi and there is a sub-chief in Mberengwa called Makuwerere, you will find Chief Ngungubane in Mberengwa as well, they were displaced from their places of origin. Other people say they are coming from Gwanda or DBS Farm but all those areas are not in their provinces. When these children are told that we used to stay in DBS or Gwanda, people there will refer to them as foreigners. They we made foreigners due to colonialism. What I am saying is that, we should be under chiefs and they should remember people who are nearby. We should remember that this was done by the whites when they were removing people. I think we have lost some chieftainships, I heard there was one called Chief Nyabira who is no longer there but there area is now called Nyabira and people do not remember that. They only think of people who are within the vicinity but you should note that there were others who were close to where you are but they are no longer there and still have that history.
As mature people, I think we should not delve much on people in those vicinities. If we do that, I think we will be sowing seeds of xenophobia thinking that we are spearheading local interest. These local interests will end up developing seeds of enmity and that is the beginning of everything because everything, there is a starting point. As mature people, we should talk but also remember history. We should not sow seeds of disunity. I also want to agree that when a person is to be resettled, someone should introduce them to the chief so that they are inculcated on the culture of that area and they all live in harmony. With these few words, I thank you Madam President.
*HON. CHIEF CHITANGA: Thank you Madam President. I would like to add myviews on the Land Commission Bill that has been introduced by the Minister. It is quite an important Bill but I have a point or two to add onto
it.
The aim of the Bill is to correct the existing imbalances in the resettlement of the people and these have to be rectified. We need to have a department that is responsible for investigating and correcting all the problems being faced by the people in these areas. My request is that, since the chiefs are the custodians of the land, they should be part of this Commission. I think the Minister overlooked the importance of chiefs as members of this Land Commission Bill yet we believe that as the custodians, we should have a bigger say in the way our land is distributed.
Chiefs are also peacemakers in their constituencies or chiefdoms. We believe chiefs are very important and should be included as members of this Land Commission Bill.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on this noble Bill. We are very grateful for this step but as chiefs, we feel that people in the rural areas are not fully represented by this Land Commission Bill because people can only be represented by a chief in that Bill.
When people were resettled during the Land Reform Programme, they were not placed under the jurisdiction of chiefs but went as individuals. We believe they needed to be resettled in the jurisdiction of chiefs as chiefs are the custodians of the Land Commission and also the custodians of our culture.
We need to have at least two chiefs so that when there is a problem, the Land Commission will refer them for assistance to the chiefs. It seems people are not aware of how people in the resettlement areas live.
We have cases of cattle straying into other peoples’ fields and they also dwindle around the Witchcraft Protection Act calling each other witches and wizards. We know that all those people came from chiefs and should be placed under the jurisdiction of chiefs. We believe if you include us as members of this Commission or as assessors, we will feel incorporated, emancipated and empowered. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Madam President for giving me
this opportunity to make my contribution on this Bill. This is quite a noble Bill because it is talking about the Land Reform Programme. We know that the Commission that has been established is going to be of great assistance and also be able to settle quarrels amongst the people who have been resettled especially when they quarrel for agricultural or pasture land.
I realise that traditional leaders are very important as they play an important role in the resettlement of people. We believe the Government is aware of this importance. We acknowledge that whenever there was a land resettlement programme being implemented, the chiefs were invited or consulted especially in the District Land Committees. Chiefs were included as members of this committee as this is the body that is responsible and has a voice in land redistribution. We then go to the districts, provinces and this is implemented after consultation with the traditional chiefs because the provincial Chief’s Council nominates chiefs who will be in the Land Committee to play an oversight role in the resettlement areas.
Chiefs are part of the land redistribution committees because they have an input. Hon. Minister, please get me correctly, the traditional leadership is very important from district up to the province. We realise that when we go national, the traditional leaders have been put aside. Hon. Minister, since this Land Commission has already been established, I am calling for the crafting of a document that empowers these traditional chiefs. After this commission has completed this task, there is need for another commission that has to lead another programme. I plead with you for the next group to include traditional leaders because at the moment, we would not want to throw spanners into the works as there will be a drawback but we need to craft a way of including the traditional leaders. Therefore we are saying, let by-gones be by-gones but in future when we are establishing such a Commission; we should include our traditional leaders from the district up to national levels.
I believe, Hon. Minister, you are going to take up this request on the traditional leaders to be included in such important land reform programmes. My fervent wish is for this Commission to work in the resettlement areas as well they only operate in communal areas. We realise that the people in the resettlement areas come from the chiefdoms who recommended them into those programmes. Therefore, I wish for chiefs to be empowered so that they play an oversight role of traditional leadership in the resettlement areas because they are aware of the problems which are involved in the resettlement programmes. I believe this Commission is exactly what the doctor ordered for the resettlement and land redistribution. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam President for according me this opportunity to add my contribution and because of language barrier, I might repeat so forgive me. The Minister’s Bill is very good but what surprises me is that yes, land was taken and given to people - which is a good thing for us to have enough in our country instead of us starving. So, we are happy with this gesture but what amazed me was that when this land was given to people, most of the people who were in South Africa are here and some are now late. For example, I know of a place where the mother died but the child is holding on to the land but it is like he is renting the land. When commissioners come, they would not know the owner of the land.
What I want to say is that if chiefs and the headmen were involved in the distribution, they would have known the people who stay in those areas. When commissioners come to visit the areas and they see the cattle, they are just told that the animals that you see here belong to the owner of the farms but they do not know who the right owner is because the chiefs, headmen and chairmen are not involved in the Commission. Some of them are fugitives from other areas and people do not know why they left or ran away from their areas. It is only this child who has welcomed that person. They will think that the farm is functioning because they have seen the animals that are there. The Chief or headman does not know that some has come with his animals. My real issue is if the headman and the Chief are involved in what is happening, what the right is doing the left should know. That is my contribution. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Madam President for giving me
this opportunity to add a few words on this Bill. Minister, I grew up in the rural areas. Chiefs are not elected like what happens with the constituencies. The issue of chiefs is that of inheritance and some people have died. What I want to say Minister is that if your Bill respects the chiefs, the predicament that we are in right now is because of chiefs that are not being respected.
Where I was born, there was a time when there was a shortage of water and in that area, chiefs would be called and asked to go to the mountains to perform rain making rituals. People would come down that mountain with the rains falling. There were also worms that used to destroy the crops but before they could get to the next village, people would consult the chiefs who in turn would go to the mountains and by sunset the worms would be no more. So, what I am saying this afternoon Madam President is that it is true that you have given powers to the District Administrators.
From 2000 when land was taken, some people do not even have offer letters. This looks like child play because the chiefs are not aware. You took the powers of the chiefs and bestowed them on the wrong people. I am pleading with you Minister that in your Bill, consider the Chiefs and give them their own Minister who stands for them but they do not have, and everything is being grabbed from them. I heard last week that one Minister went to a place where a tractor was travelling under water and requested that the District Administrator to be summoned. From the year 2000, we had Chiefs in this Parliament, chiefdom does not end.
So, in your Bill Minister, I am pleading that you put the Chiefs upfront because they are the owners of the land. Many people are not harvesting because some of the Chiefs are being bribed. You should remove the role of
District Administrators on land and restore it back to the chiefs. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. BUKA: Thank you Madam President. I am making my contribution in support of this Bill which was raised by the Minister because this is one of the most important aspects enshrined in the Constitution of the country that we want to put into implementation regarding land resettlement and land reform programmes. The implementation has to come to a conclusion in a progressive and welcome manner. Hon. Minister, may I also congratulate you on the aspects which you have adopted from the Constitution were we talk about the equality of gender.
You did state in the press that the Chairperson of this Land Commission
Bill is a lady. We also have a ratio four is to five (4:5) in favour of women.
This is very important because as far as we are concerned, especially in Zimbabwe when we talk about agriculture, we have more women actively participating. Also, when we talk about the problems regarding this farming land, women mostly suffer especially in cases whereby the husband is deceased. The land is grabbed from the widow.
I will add on the importance of the traditional leaders, this is very important and we have to uphold it. Hon. Minister, speaker after speaker has spoken on the importance of including traditional leaders in this Commission. I am pleading with you to revisit this programme and look for ways of rectifying all these anomalies, including the clauses which have been added by the august Senate. When we are talking of the land resettlement programme, we need to move together in unison as one family.
I also heard that some people are complaining on why the Land Commission was empowered to the Executive Commission. I support this wholeheartedly because land redistribution is a very important programme; it started from the time the land was grabbed by the imperialists and colonialists when they fought our forefathers. It is the same land which led to the second Chimurenga War where we had some sons and daughters of Zimbabwe who died and others where maimed and consequently we then need to have people who will take care of this land. We need to have technocrats who will work on this programme. When they have done it, we need to have some people who will bring a traditional angle on checking on the oversight on the technocrats and we know that this land reform programme led to the imposition of sanctions on our country.
We had our leaders put on the sanctions list by the West and we suffered a great loss. The approximate money lost through these sanctions is US$42b. What does this mean? It means that if only this money had been harnessed without these sanctions, Zimbabwe would be really be a land of milk and honey, and hence those people who started on this programme, especially the political leaders through the Minister should have some checking mechanisms that the land is not returned to the colonialists.
One other aspect which has really pleased me is that this Land Commission is going to undertake a land audit so that we check on the progress on the land redistribution programme. Whenever there are any problems they should be worked out so that we correct the problem faced by the settlers. The resettled people should be given enough powers so that they can use this land as a way of borrowing money from the banks as collateral. We also need to have leases because if you have a lease you have the power to possess that land and feel that you belong and feel entrant and embark on capital investments such as dams, bridges and houses. We need to support you Minister so that you quickly go back to the drawing board and start implementing the plans which had been suggested and empower the Land Commission to start doing its work.
We wish the Minister all the best and that progress is made. We are also talking about the Land Commission Bill at a time when we are noticing that people who have been resettled, if given financial support there will be progress. We have witnessed improvement in the usage of land due to command agriculture assistance to farming. There is progress because in Zimbabwe it is green everywhere.
We have heard that some people who had turned down taking up these land offers are now regretting and wishing they had taken up land because of the support given through the support programme and the command agriculture programme. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Madam President. I would like to make my contribution in support of this Bill which was introduced by the Minister in this House. We need to understand the position where we are on this issue, the Land Commission Bill. I have listened to the previous speakers such as Hon. Sen. Masuku when she was making her contribution. She made it in Ndebele, maybe some of us have missed what she said. The stance which we should take is not to be saying that why were the traditional leaders left out during the Land Resettlement Programme.
During the Land Resettlement Programme, I was a Member of
Parliament and I was part of the panel which was distributing that land. What we did is that we invited all the five Chiefs in my constituency to be part of this programme. I think where we are missing the point as what was said by one Senator that some of these places where we realise that land had been grabbed by the colonialists and relocated the Chiefs in those lands where they had grabbed the land.
I can talk of Chief Jiri who originally came from Chivhu District and was thrown at the periphery and not only this Chief, but many other Chiefs who were deprived of their land and relocated in land which was not suitable for resettlement. Taking in to account where we are now, where people have been resettled we need to have the traditional leaders getting into those areas and demarcating land according to the chieftainships in those areas. I believe this should also include former commercial farms. I believe in the powers of the traditional leaders.
The bone of contention, however is that the Chiefs should be included in the Land Commission and I agree wholeheartedly that Chiefs should be included. But the point is that the Commission is in place, it was appointed by His Excellency, the President - therefore, I am pleading with the Chiefs to understand that since the Commission has already been commissioned and have already been given the parameters of their mode of operation such as looking at the disputes in these land resettlement and also the compensation of the previous commercial farm owners. I would suggest that when this current Commission’s term of operation expires and a new Commission appointed, this should include the traditional leaders. Let us not go back, but move forward because we have already gone some distance in implementing this land resettlement programme.
We are pleading with the Minister that he takes note that this august
Senate is calling for the inclusion of traditional leaders in the new Land Commission, or supposing through the act of God, a member of the Commission passes on, the replacement should be given to a traditional leader. We accept that it was an omission that these traditional leaders were left out. In future, traditional leaders should be included so that they have a say in the land resettlement programme.
*HON. SEN. BHOBHO: I want to start by thanking the Minister for timeously introducing this Bill in this august House because this is a very important Bill which talks about our land. I also want to thank you for everything that you said especially regarding the inclusion of the vulnerable groups such as women and orphans in this Commission. It means these people are now protected and there is going to be representation of the widows and orphans. In the past, when a husband passed on, the relatives would come and evict the family from the land. We therefore feel that what has been done is noble indeed. When the husband passes on now, the family will not be evicted from their resettled land. I thank Hon. Mashavakure for the contribution because we do not need to have segregation if people are to be resettled in their original areas. This is different from what is happening. Though they belong to different parts of the country, they are representing the constituencies where they now live. We all know that each and every one of us belongs to some chieftainship where they originated from.
I know that most of us are supporting this Bill but the only bone of contention is that traditional leaders were omitted. We know that the Commission has been empowered to go and investigate the problem of boundaries. When this Commission goes round the country, they will really be impressed by what they are going to see. This season, Government gave assistance to the farmers through the Presidential Input Scheme and the Command Agriculture Programme. Definitely, Zimbabwe is resorting to being the ‘bread basket of Southern Africa.’
In my area, when land redistribution was taking place, the chiefs were included but it is only now when this Commission was commissioned that traditional leaders were left out. We are not going back on this programme because there is development happening. We have progressed and we know that Zimbabwe has an agro-based economy. We believe that the inclusion of chiefs in this body will lead to further development because chiefs live among the people and they know the people’s problems and solutions to those problems. Therefore, we do not have to throw the spanner into the works and disturb the smooth progress of this Commission. I thank you for taking that into account.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: I also rise to commend the Minister for bringing this Land Commission Bill. It is coming at a time when we are consolidating the land, which was the bone of contention for the liberation struggle. The war of liberation was fought to unite the whole country and as such, people fought together with their traditional leaders. I do totally agree that it would have been prudent to include the chiefs even for their persuasive powers as commissioners. Let me also say, now that the Commission has been appointed, ndiani angave ari muCommission imomo angafunga kuti angaita basa iri asingafambe pamwechete nemachiefs? From the time we got our independence, our Government worked together with the chiefs. It is the same Government which is still there that is aware of the importance of chiefs. I think this issue was adequately debated in this House and I think what is left is to see how that can be rectified.
The Land Commission Bill is an executive commission because the land which we fought for was won by blood. The person who should oversee the land is that one who is accountable to the people. The land commissioners are appointed but the President of this country is elected and that means the commission will do everything that is required such as auditing the land, seeing to it that there is accountability to make sure that there is no double allocation and no under utilisation because land is business. If we have to grow our economy, we have to deal with land as a business and as such, there is nothing wrong with the Commission reporting to the Minister who reports directly to the person who was elected by the people of this country. When you are elected, you are accountable to the people and you need to do what the people want.
Now, that the Minister has come with this Bill, we need these commissioners to conduct periodic audits to ensure that there is no double allocation and make sure that the land is used. We need our land to be utilised because it is a business. Let us take our land as a business. So, those recommendations should be done through the Minister to the Government. There is also the issue of title deeds Minister. That is tenure which has been discussed in this House before and let me hasten to say that the land in this country was won by blood, hence it cannot be sold. The reason why we went for the outreach to hear what people had to say about this land was whether they wanted a 99-year lease or a title deed because we consider the people to be the most important asset. They fought for the liberation of this country so that we could regain our land. As such, the 99-year lease should be given to the farmers.
Let there be banking provisions which must address the issue of security and recovery. It is not true that investors will not invest in a piece of land because there is no title deed. If that was true, China would not be where it is today because in China, there is no title deed. All the agricultural land belongs to Government and people are given half of the 99-year lease. This 99-year lease is bankable and transferable so that if I am given a loan from the bank using the 99-year lease. If I do not pay, then the transferability of that 99-year lease should come in. We cannot give back land which we fought for because otherwise we go back to the war.
Ownership of land has nothing to do with security of the investor. The investor must get the security from the transferability of that lease. We cannot remove title deeds from the Government because Government has got all the sovereign loans. They hold sovereign loans and they can secure that for the investor.
Madam President, title deeds will mean transferring land from Government to the capitalist and we need to think seriously about this problem about land. As the economy develops, we all know a lot of people are rushing to the farms now because there is nothing happening in towns. Industry is dead. Otherwise, as the economy improves, a lot of people will move from the farms to higher productivity areas like industrialisation. What we need to do at this point, is to make sure that these land commissioners do ensure that accountability. Those who have got the land, are they using it, are they using it as a business tool. Madam President, we want a united country. We want people who are united. We fought for this land. It did not come on a silver platter, so let us not give up what we fought for. I thank you Madam President.
+HON. SEN. J. NDLOVU: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the Bill that was brought by the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement in this august House. Minister, I would like to second your Bill. It is something that we have been waiting to hear especially, as the leaders who are representing the people of Zimbabwe.
First and foremost Minister, what I want to thank you for is, you made it very clear, especially to me who did not understand issues to do with land. Why I am saying so is because when we are talking about the issues to do with land, most people always say that we fought for this land. No one went to war for the sake of being a refugee, for example where they were staying in Mozambique and Zambia. Everyone left their homes so that they could go and fight for the sake of getting the land. No one went to the war for the sake of buying a house, but the major reason was to get land. Therefore, the land belongs to all Zimbabweans regardless of who you are. As long as you are a Zimbabwean, you have the right to acquire land.
While we are still dealing with the issue of resettlement areas, not looking into the issue of farms, Madam President, you realise that there are so many squabbles, especially on the issue of resettlement. Some of the members who spoke before me have highlighted that the chiefs need to participate on the issue of land distribution. Sometimes a chief just hears that so and so has acquired land in this place. Some will acquire a big space of land, some a small piece of land and some even sublet and you realise that at the end of the day, there is no peace.
Therefore, I am saying Minister; most people have indicated that the chiefs are supposed to participate in these issues. The chiefs know all the areas and how they are supposed to be allocated. Even the areas that are considered as sacred places, they know them.
Some of the people cause deforestation even on places that are considered as sacred land. For example, if I travel from Gwanda to Plumtree, as long as the chief has not said that this is a sacred place, I will not know until the chief shows me that you are not supposed to stay in this place because it is considered as a sacred land, but if someone just says to me come and stay in this place using the friendly relations that we have, at the end of the day, I will occupy even the sacred lands.
Hon. Masuku indicated that there is need for chiefs to get involved in the Land Commission because it has been realised that there is nothing that we can do without the involvement of the chiefs. They are the people who know our cultures. Everything that we are doing, we are doing respecting the chiefs who were there even when we were born. There are some who are still young, but there are others who are old in their chieftainships.
Minister, the second thing that I would like to highlight on is that in the areas where people are being given land, there is need to have boundaries because without boundaries, that is where we get so many disagreements, especially if people do not know their boundaries. We therefore urge the Minister to check with their officers to see if they are really working and we want to have peace. We fought during the war of liberation and so much blood was shed. We do not want to go through the same thing again. As long as there are people who have failed to acquire land, we will not have peace for we are all human beings and Zimbabweans and we deserve to get the land.
With these few words, I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I do not know what the word ngamafitshane means.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on the Land Commission Bill. We are very grateful for such a Bill. In order for you to be a good farmer on the land, you need to have all the necessary implements and the documents which may enable you to use as collateral when you look for financial resources from institutions. When we are working on the Agrarian Reform, you can only get that document if there are no squabbles. We also believe that since we now have this Land Commission Bill which has been set aside, it is going to look at the problems faced by farmers in co-existing, such as fighting over boundaries – Mavhunga and a neighbour fighting over the boundary. We also hope that the land audit will expose those people who have more land given to them than they are supposed to be given and that there are also some guidelines which are supposed to be followed.
Hon. Minister, we know the land was redistributed by the Land Committee, especially the District and Province Land Committees. In my constituency, we have the traditional leaders who are included in this Land Commission Bill because chiefs are responsible for the welfare of the people who continue multiplying, yet they should share the limited resources which they have. As such, these people have. As such, these people have to be resettled. This Commission has already been commissioned, but it should also start working on resolving all the boundary disputes which are in existence. We know there are some people who are in these resettlement areas who do not have offer letters but are just squatting on that land. All these problems should be solved by this Land Commission Bill. We know that the allocation is the responsibility of the Minister working hand in hand with the Committees and the Commission is there to play an oversight role on the resettlement areas. Therefore, I am pleading with my fellow members in this august House that the resettlement farmers be given the 99 year leases.
+HON. SEN. JUBA: Thank you Madam President. I have a request to the Minister, I do not know how the Government policy works. When you travel using Matabeleland North road, when you get to cross Dete, as old as l am, you realise that people are doing their farming in a very small piece of land. Honestly, if we allow them to plough in such a small piece of land, obviously they will not be able to feed their families. They have been doing so all the years that I have been there. My request to the Minister is, if maybe the chiefs do not come to that place, I will not say I know for I do not belong to the Land Commission.
If you go through that road, you take note that the people who are doing the farming there, yes they have the zeal to do the farming but there is not enough land to do so. Maybe this is the main reason why many people in that area are facing hunger. So, many a times, they sell those wild fruits to people who will be traveling in that area. Most of the times I question myself and ask why there seems to be so much hunger in that place. If only we could work together as a team as Zimbabweans, we can fight this hunger. My request to the Minister is, if only they can maybe do site visits to check what exactly is the problem or challenge in that area.
For an example, I will give an issue to do with the street kids that are so many in that area. My request is to try and find out the major cause. I thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. I thank the Minister for giving us the opportunity to debate this Bill and I want to make my additions onto the Bill. My fellow Senators have said this Commission has not been made and commissioned by His Excellency. The most important thing regarding the resettlement areas is that there are a lot of problems. I come from Zvishavane, and there are some people who were resettled in areas such as De Beer. I believe that if chiefs or traditional leaders were in charge of that area, we would not have the kind of problems which we have. They have no transport.
Some of the problems are so much that if only chiefs had been included, some of these problems would not be there. I am also asking you Minister, to include chiefs in your Commission.
I am saying since the President is resident in Zimbabwe and has appointed this Commission, you can take this Bill to His Excellency and explain to him that we had an oversight of not including the traditional leaders and knowing the President as I do, he will never turn down such a noble suggestion.
My fellow Parliamentarians also talked about the war of liberation which was fought to reclaim our land from the colonialists. The war of liberation affected each and every one of us in one way or the other but when we talk about what we want to rectify, there has to be an anomaly. I think if we talk about correcting this problem and you talk about the war coming back or being revived, nobody wants the war. We know the effects of the war and we are Zimbabweans who have their leader. We can always go back to our father figure and tell him about the observations of this House. I am saying that chiefs be included in the Commission and there will be progress. I thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to thank the Minister for introducing this Bill which we have to debate and give enough time so that we can implement it. All the things I had planned to say were stated by Hon. Sen. Mavhunga and other Hon. Senators and therefore, I will not waste your time, I thank you.
* HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam President,
for giving me the opportunity to make my contributions and I also thank the Minister for introducing this Bill. I am also grateful to fellow senators who made contributions on this debate. We are members for the Senate and we have an assignment given to us. We know we cannot have these people called to come to this august House, if it had been known that they would not bring any value to this law making process. It should be taken into account that we have a different perspective from the National Assembly on the way we view issues.
What is happening is that whenever a Bill has come from the National Assembly, we should give it our own angle so that we justify our existence. I know we have passed so many Bills in this august House and I have known of some cases whereby some Bills have been passed in one sitting. The reason being that there is no need for debating any further when we know that the Bill is okay and it is known that traditional leaders are the custodians of our culture and heritage. When we talk of heritage, we are talking of things on the land as nothing heritage does not come from the soil.
Let me divert a little bit, I recently visited Nyika area in Masvingo where there was a meeting being held by the Hon. Vice President
Mnangagwa. He stated that no part of Zimbabwe is not run by chiefs because all the land in Zimbabwe belongs to the chiefs. This confirms the fact that all land belongs to the chiefs but when we are redistributing land and leave chiefs out, why should we leave them out as the custodians of the land? This Bill has made chiefs foreigners in their land. I am saying this oversight should be corrected and chiefs be empowered. Whether we like it or not or say whatever, the ordinary mind of a Zimbabwean believes and correctly, that the land belongs to the chiefs – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] - Whether you write it down or not, every Zimbabwean except whites know that land belongs to the chiefs. If you were to ask Zimbabweans as to who owns Zimbabwe, the majority of them will tell you that land belongs to the chiefs and chiefs are the custodians of this cultural heritage. This is the reason why when people are denied land, especially in areas where chiefs do not distribute A1 or A2 land, they end up coming to the chiefs for assistance because it is embedded in their minds and culture that land belongs to the chiefs and they believe that chiefs have a role to play. Otherwise, we are a Senate that is not governed by people – that is the truth.
Madam President, we want to emphasise that when this Bill was introduced in all the areas where this was debated, there was oversight even in the processes as chiefs were not involved. This is the only time whereby as chiefs and traditional leaders we have been given the chance to correct it. Now that you have given the traditional leaders this chance, let them tell you what needs to be corrected…
The Hon. President of the Senate having realised that Hon. Chief
Charumbira was code switching.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, order, Hon.
chief may you make your contribution in one language please.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam President,
since we are talking about culture, I will speak in Shona. We have the Constitution of the land, which states in Section 3 (2) (k), due respect for vested rights; and in full Section 3 (2) states, “The principles of good governance, which bind the State and all institutions and agencies of
Government at every level, include (k) due respect for vested rights.” Chiefs have vested rights in land, so respect their rights in land issues as they are the custodians of the land. To such an extent that if we were to ask the war veterans why they went to war, they will tell you that it is because land had been grabbed from the traditional leaders. Therefore, we do not have to sideline the chiefs from land issues.
During the liberation struggle, we were told about the son of the soil and that this land belongs to Chief Chiduku or Chief Ngungubane. Why should we forget that the chiefs have a role to play? We are saying the Commission membership should be chiefs as the custodians of the land. Section 2 talks about the powers of the chiefs. Section 22 states that, ‘Chiefs are the custodians of the communal lands...” and when land has been acquired, it should be placed under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders. It is also enshrined under Section 29 of the Traditional Leaders Act that, all farms should be placed under the authority of the chiefs. We all know that when the white colonialists came, they grabbed land from the traditional chiefs. This is going to embrace all the land in Zimbabwe and in future, all these areas will be under the jurisdiction of chiefs or traditional leaders.
Section 22 (1) (e) states that we settle disputes among people and their communities. We should heed the fact that chiefs are also responsible for resolving disputes amongst people and in communal areas. So, chiefs as traditional leaders have been left out in the cold in this Bill. I would like to remind all Hon. Senators that when this Bill was first brought to this House, Hon. Chief Chiduku raised the fact that chiefs had been left out but he was informed that this was exactly what was happening now but the matter would be rectified in future. We were informed that chiefs would be empowered during implementation stage but we now realise that we have been left out and you are saying, let us forget about including the chiefs until the future yet we are making reference to what was agreed upon.
If we look at the national report, where we were seeking opinion, people who looked at version one said, regarding land allocation, administration and custody should be left under the traditional leadership. Some of these things have been included in the Constitution. We know leadership comes from the Lord. Traditional leaders are being held responsible and blamed for the way women are denied access to land but it is not our fault. It is because we were disempowered. The powers to allocate land were given to other people. We are now saying, we talked about the DAs, yet we know that the DA did not come in the 1980s but they existed long before and they were called Native Commissioners. They came with Rhodes in the 1890s but that office was run by the whites. At independence, that is when we started introducing blacks into that. We do not know what the relevance of the whites in those areas was when they were running it. So, the colonialist government stated why they had set up the Native Commissioner. I will not dwell on that but might do that in future.
Minister, may I please inform you that we will be bringing amendments to this Land Commission Bill and we are giving you notice such as on point number six. I have made a research and we were told that some of the suggestions were unconstitutional and when we made our draft, some of the things were omitted. We went to legal institutions and made the necessary research. I have been looking through these papers and I am sure when we introduce these changes, we also included people who drafted the Constitution such as Crozier. We hope that when we introduce these amendments we are not going to have any legal problems because we will have a prima facie case and it was done in such a way that we have progress.
We have two requests; when appointing the Commssioners, please include the Chiefs and when you look at the assessors who will be settling disputes among settlers, we are saying that board should include the chiefs so that they can have a say in the settlement of problems. We are told that qualification to these bodies needs people who are qualified. We have Chiefs who are competent and knowledgeable. If you want them, they are there and we can bring them for inclusion in these bodies. Yes, we talked about integrity and knowledge in land administration and the Chiefs may be better informed than others.
You also talked about gender but as far as gender is concerned, it is okay. You said the Commissioners should reflect gender balance. The only thing which was missing out of this Bill was that it left out the traditional leaders. Let me conclude this issue by saying we should not change the current composition of those Commissions because as far as we know in the Land Board and Land Commission, Chiefs were included but are left out in this Land Commission. Therefore, we are saying please include the traditional leaders in the composition of the Land Commissioners. We need to make progress in this direction.
In conclusion, let us not forget what was said in the past. Hon. Senator
Mawire raised a motion here where we talked a lot about the powers of the Chiefs. You also said the Chiefs should be empowered. I am holding a document in regard to the powers of the traditional leaders which says,
“…including resettlement areas. This has led to poor management and disturbance of the environment, with illegal activities being the order of the day. Our morals have been …”. You all stood in support of that motion on the powers of traditional leaders. You seem to be turning around and working against what we agreed upon which is empowering the Chiefs. Therefore Hon. Minister, we are supporting this Bill. Of course, there are going to be some amendments which we are going to introduce. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT
(HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): I have looked and noticed that most of the debates which were held in this House were done in either Shona or Ndebele and therefore, I am going to make my response in Shona. I thank the Hon. Members in this Senate for the contributions which they made. It shows that you are very patriotic and are aware of what lands means to you. There are so many contributions which were made in this House and I may not be able to mention contribution made by individual members but I will make a summary on what was debated in this august House.
The first point which was raised which I may want to pick on is that when we talk about agricultural land and land redistribution, it is a very important issue in Zimbabwe. Some Hon. Members who made their contributions suggested that the Land Commission should be an independent commission but let me just give some direction. Independent Commissions are in Section 2(2) in our Constitution and Land Commission is not part of those Commissions. We have already gone through that part which we have done away with when we approved the Constitution. In order for us to reinstate that clause, we need to make a constitutional amendment. There were reasons why it was not made an independent commission.
Most of the members who made contributions talked on the importance of the Land Commission. Some of them even mentioned that sanctions were imposed on Zimbabwe because of the Land Reform Programme - for it was a pain to the countries in the West simply because the Land Reform Programme meant that some of the white commercial farmers were removed and land reallocated to the blacks. It was really painful to them.
When we talk about Independent Commissions, we need to know what they are because when a commission is said to be independent we are not going to have any control over it because it will be independent. I am leading a Commission which is talking about this independence. As a Minister of
Lands, I have many stories of the whites from the West who are now saying they have interest in the Land Commission Bill and if it becomes independent they will sponsor it. This may retard progress which we have achieved.
I am pleading with this august House that please, let us not clamour for an independent commission because we may not be able to correct it in its operations land is important because Zimbabwe is an agro-based economy.
Everything that is called economy comes from the land and we also know that Zimbabwe was granted independence through a bloody war of liberation and at times if you make that mistake, we may find ourselves getting into another war. I will now turn to the current case regarding the motion which has been introduced which is the Land Commission. This was gazette according to the
Constitution of the country. When the Bill was passed, it also talked about the Land Commission. As far as the development of the Land Commission Bill is concerned, we are now saying the Land Commission is going to be given areas of operation, its powers and rights.
As long as we have agreed that it is not an independent Commission, we need to look at how membership into this Commission is done. We realise that most of the members who made a contribution are saying, traditional leaders should have been included in this Commission. I also belong to a chieftainship and my ancestors were removed from their land and resettled somewhere. In that area where we were staying, we had some Chiefs who were installed and yet in the commercial farms there were no Chiefs.
Since independence, the Zimbabwean Government has been working hand in hand with the traditional leaders; even when we talked about the fast track land reform, we realise that traditional leaders were included because we had people who were coming from the communal areas which were congested and they had to be decongested. Hence it was essential that we work together with the traditional leaders because they were aware of the overpopulation in their areas. Chiefs are also included in the District Land Committees. It shows that the Government of Zimbabwe acknowledge that the Chiefs are very important in the land distribution.
Let me be clear Section 297 of the Constitution. In that Section, we talk about Land Commission that they play an oversight role - just like we have the Portfolio Committees and Thematic Committees of Parliament of
Zimbabwe but they are not responsible for distributing land. When we are talking about the functions of the Committees, we summon people to appear before these Committees. The Land Commission is not empowered to do a lot of things, but it has to play an oversight role on the Ministry and check on the progress. When they feel there is a problem somewhere in the way the Ministry is operating, this Commission will then seek for assistance from legal minds who will give ideas on how to correct problems.
Supposing there is a task which has to be undertaken by the
Commission, they have to sublet that responsibility. Let me be clear here, the
Land Commission is not responsible for land redistribution. When the Land Commission has made a recommendation, it does not mean to say that it is going to be implemented there and then, but there is going to be a meeting to check on the recommendations. We should know that when we talk about land distribution, we fought a war of liberation, hence politics should be part and parcel of land distribution. We do not want any foreign interference in the land distribution. Therefore Hon. Members, please be aware of the fact that the land is a thorny issue, hence has to be handled with care. We do not have to be so independent that Government is left out.
I believe what has been said by the Chiefs is very important to us as Zimbabweans because before the advent of the colonialist, all the land was under the traditional leaders and they separated us the people of Zimbabwe changed our way of operation. Let me point again from the onset, it does not follow that these people who would have benefited from the land, are the people who are in that particular land. We have people who were resettled by the colonialists in Gokwe. We have people like Chief Jahana who were moved from their areas and were taken to Gokwe because when they were settled in those areas they passed through some chieftains. When I got to that place, we were told that we want to resettle Chief Janana in his ancestral land, why should he come back, let him stay in Gokwe. He was removed unsettled by the settlers and put him somewhere.
Colonialists removed Chiefs from their throne because they did not want to be under Chiefs and that is why we are saying in all the areas where we have resettled people in A1 or A2, we want to put those areas under traditional leaders. In areas like Zvimba, we have 3 Chiefs who have been installed who will then play an oversight role in the resettlement areas. We have problems
of people fighting over the resettlement areas and some of them are even saying we belong to the chieftainship and we need to go back to where we were. In those areas we have people from other areas who have been resettled.
What I know is that as traditional leaders, you are aware of the fact that your Government is always moving around and will never leave you behind. We noticed that in some resettlement areas under the Chiefs they are better administered than what is happening in A1 and A2 areas because Chiefs play that custodial role in trying to fight off the unnecessary hunting, veld fires and other ills against the land. Whatever it is you said during the debate, we are all moving together and we are agreeable. I realise that some of the Senators were repeating what had already been said and now that this has been repeated over and over it will stick in my mind. Whenever we have a point we should know about the rulings which are given. We also talked about the legal minds that they should check on what has been said and any suggestions and to move hand in hand with the alignment to the Constitution.
We have been told by the traditional leaders that they are going to introduce some amendments and again we will talk to the legal minds to check on whether these amendments are not going to be contrary or ultra vires to the Constitution, we want them to make bonafide contributions. Members also talked about the administration and some of the issues which were debated fall under the jurisdiction of the Minister. These are issues such as title deeds and 99-year leases, where we talk about the security of tenure and this does not fall under the Land Commission. I also want to thank you for the contributions which you have made because you are giving us direction and guidance on the running of the country. We have talked about tenure documents which are in existence. In 2006, we talked about the 99-year lease which was designed for the A2 farmers. The A2 farmers are regarded as businesses because they are profit making. When we looked at the new constitution, which we adopted in 2013, we agreed as a nation that we are not going to use title deeds in the land which we acquired for A2 and A1 resettlement but instead, we are using 99-year leases so that this can be used as collateral.
After 2013, we again scrutinised the 99-year lease and agreed that the document should be used as collateral just like somebody using title deeds.
We worked with the World Bank who worked together with the local institutions; hence the 99-year lease can now be used in financial institutions as collateral because the banks have agreed. I know that we have some financial institutions in this country which may not want to support the Government stance but ZB bank, CBZ and Agribank have agreed to accept the 99-year leases as collateral. So, farmers can go and borrow money from there. Some of the banks have not come out into the open on their stance regarding these 99-year leases but if this has been promulgated into a legal framework, then the banks will be obliged to comply.
Currently, we are appealing to those people who have 99-year leases which were given earlier, that we have since revised that document and given it new powers so that it can be used as collateral. Also included are issues that talk about inheritance laws where the vulnerable such as widows and orphans are evicted from their land. We know these things can continue to happen but when we are alerted, we will definitely revisit that and correct that problem. We are also all aware that Zimbabwe has inheritance laws that protect the vulnerable and these laws state that if there has been a couple and the husband passes on, the land remains the property of the widow.
We also have a document called A1 permit, which was introduced in
- This talks about the tenure of the A2 farmers and this has no time limit. If you have been given that, it has no limit such as the 99- year lease but it is there forever. It also mentions what will happen to the land when the other partner passes on. This document also talks about inheritance in a polygamous situation and gives detail on the inheritance. All the wives in a polygamous family now benefit from the land which they will have acquired together with the husband.
I would have thought that the women would be the happiest because of this aspect. They had a problem before because they could not get anything after the passing on of the husband but the new ruling is that women living in a polygamous family should all be registered so that when the husband passes on, they do not lose out like what was happening in the past.
Members made lots of contributions and I believe most of the issues were dealt with when we debated. I heard some Members debating the various sizes of agricultural land in resettlement areas. This is not up to the
Land Commission Bill but as a Ministry, we need to follow what we stated. We said the maximum land according to the region is situational. So, we need to check why a farmer has 1000 ha in such an area but we take into account the geographical features of that land regarding the mountains and the arable land. At times the farm might be very big yet the arable land will be very small so we leave it like that. But when the land is too big, we will subdivide it so that more people benefit. What is of paramount importance however is that we will look at the productive levels of this land audit which they will do on their own. When they are through with their audit, we will then analyse the results. We are not going to tell the land auditors what has to be done but they have to do it like the census where they need to know the number of people in a family, their age group and health conditions as well as how the family is living.
So, when we go for the land audit, we will look first and foremost at the people who took those farms, who are sub-letting the farms and who are successful farmers or poor farmers. This will help the Government to plan on how to assist these farmers who were resettled. So, I am very happy because most of the topics that we touched on talked about the Land Commission. These were issues such as fairness, accountability and transparency. The Commission should look at whether, on the oversight role, the Commission is fair or otherwise and thereafter they make recommendations. The Land Commission is also allowed to give other recommendations regarding the land administration. So, the Land Commission is empowered to give recommendations after making some observations. We are also asking you Hon. Members to support the Land Commission because the commission got a little allocation from Treasury and this can impede on its operations, resulting in them not performing to their best ability. So, we are pleading with you Hon. Members to continue supporting the Commission in order for it to work efficiently because they will need transport, computers, allowances and other things.
The Land Commission should not embark on desk research but should have an in-situ inspection and make the correct recommendations which will be given to the Ministry for auctioning. So, they need to be supported financially.
I know some of you talked about the Land Commission having to be decentralised and having offices throughout the country. What we are saying is, when we have empowered this Commission, it will operate according to the assignment given. The first assignment was working on the organogram and the number of people in that Commission because we needed to know the number of people involved in that. If the body is agreeable, the Public Service Commission is responsible for recruiting the Secretariat, but their main duty is land audit and land inspection and then the Secretariat will be selected by them and even the decentralisation will be up to the Commission.
The Ministry is not going to dictate on the process of decentralisation because if the Ministry does that, it will be micro- managing. It is there just to empower and support them. All the Ministry wants are reports which have to be used because they give guidance to the operations of the Ministry.
Again, when you look at the Bill, you have to be careful on Section 27 which states that when this Committee is in session, they may involve some people on a temporary basis, to include them in their Committees. These people recruited on an adhoc basis may include the chiefs because what is needed is their expertise. I know some of you seem to be disagreeing with what we are saying, but I am trying to emphasise the point that the
Commissioners will need to expand by recruiting members on an adhoc basis, especially in these sub-Committees, but the Commission will know the criteria laid out for the inclusion of these people.
Now, all the Commissioners are full time. There is no Commissioner who is part time and yet in some statutory Commissions, they have temporary Commissioners. In our case, these Land Commissioners are full time workers, which means they do not hold another job, but are full time members. So, if they were in another employment, they would leave that employment and stick to the Land Commission business as a full time member.
I am sure in my response, I have touched on a lot of issues and what we said is what is supposed to be stated. In some of the instances, you were talking about the roles of the Ministry, but I have stated that the Commission has an oversight role only and what we need is that the Land Commissioners should hold consultations with the different groupings in the country so that they give recommendations to the Ministry. These will be based on thorough investigations and research. When we go through the Bill clause by clause, we will then clear all the grey areas in this.
The most important thing which I found out in these debates is that the traditional leaders should be included as Commissioners or assessors and also Hon. Chief Charumbira has said he is going to bring some amendments for inclusion. I thank you Madam President.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Chief Charumbira, I do not
know if you have anything further that you wish to add?
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: We have no additions. We
are only waiting for the amendments and we will make our contributions. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT
(HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): I now move that the Land Commission Bill
[H.B. 2A, 2016] be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 22nd February, 2017.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, I need to clarify a few points. Just because the Bill has been read a second time does not mean that that is the end of it. Actually, we had to go through this particular stage because the Hon. Chief’s amendments can only come during the Committee stage time. In addition, those amendments have to be on the Order Paper. If it is going to be tomorrow, they have to be on the Order Paper tomorrow, otherwise maybe, they will be on the Order Paper on Thursday and then we do the Committee Stage and then we conclude.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT
(HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 22nd February, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA), the Senate adjourned at
Twenty Seven Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 22nd February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam President for
according me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion which was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chipanga on the State of the Nation Address to Parliament. I want to thank the President; on his address, he pointed out things that would move us forward as a nation in reference to ZIM ASSET. He said that in line with this programme, we should see that agriculture, mining and tourism are spearheaded because these will bring change to our country.
Looking at agriculture, the President, Cde. R. G. Mugabe said that the Government has put in place command agriculture which will look at empowering our country in getting two million metric tonnes of grain by supporting A1 and A2 farmers. He also talked about the Presidential Scheme which is targeting about 800 000 communal farmers. We are all aware that people who are hungry are ungovernable. Even at home,
when children are hungry there is no peace. I really want to thank this programme because where we come from; this is going on very well. People were given enough inputs although the fertilizers were not enough. We received good rains this year. The first crop is near harvest and even if people get fertilizers, it will be of no use. For the late crops, we are still receiving rains and if the Government could put plans in place for people to get fertilizers, it would help.
Right now, people are having the wheat programme but I think they should complete the maize programme so that all the crops get fertilizer. The President also said they are going to support our cotton growers. We know that cotton spearheads industries. Many people will be employed and our industries will start ticking because we can make wool from the cotton. We really want to thank the Government for these plans.
The President did not leave out the issue of corruption. He also touched on corruption that we should nip corruption in the bud. He urged us not to engage in corruption and also spearhead our ubuntu culture. We know that as Senate, we bemoan the practice of early marriages. He also encouraged us to follow our culture as a nation. With these few words, I want to thank His Excellency the President for his speech. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Madam President,
how are you this afternoon? I want to thank you for the opportunity that you have given me to support the motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chipanga in reply to the State of the Nation Address which was delivered by His Excellency the President and Commander-in-chief who is our leader in this country, an able leader who is capable of looking after his children.
We want to thank him for bringing the two Houses together when he was delivering his speech, thus showing us the way to go for the betterment of our lives. I was happy when he spoke about the Command Agriculture. Still on that Madam President, this programme was quite successful in some areas and it faced challenges in other areas. Like where I come from in Hurungwe, when I got to a place where people were being given the command agriculture seed, others were getting diesel coupons. Those who got coupons when they went to collect the diesel, they failed to access it. I thought since we have enemies of progress, when we got our land, it is an open secret that illegal sanctions were imposed on us. They did not want this programme to succeed. So, all those who got coupons did not receive the diesel allocations.
Also those who were distributing, I think this has been talked about for a long time. Through my personal investigations, if this had been done secretly, people would have been given Command Agriculture commodities in one place instead of getting them from different points where others would receive coupons, seed or fertilizers. Further down in Nyamhunga rural areas, 250 registered farmers received seed but they were only given 30 bags of top fertiliser out of the 250 who received seed. Meaning, it is very difficult for the programme to succeed as our enemies hampered the progress of this programme.
The Lord was happy with this programme hence these rains. Even
up to now, it is still raining. I received a call advising me that there is a lot of rain in Magunje. Those with late crops are still looking for fertilisers and cannot find it. As a small farmer, I do not celebrate when the crops are still in the fields but only do so after harvesting. Right now, the crops are not ready as some fields are being washed away by floods. When I asked others, they advised that they failed to plough all their hectares as inputs came late. So they kept the surplus inputs as evidence.
We were not happy to learn that some people received fertilisers and seeds but sold them. Those who sold their implements should face the wrath of the law because it was wrong for them to sell their implements in order to buy cars as this hamper the programme. These people should be punished. Those who got fertilisers in place of seed should keep the fertilisers as proof that they did not use it since they failed to get the seed.
The other thing that made me happy, Hon. Sen. Mavhunga mentioned the issue of corruption. I want to support that one as well because our President is always talking about it. In this country, corruption is like murder. From my own understanding and the people I represent, anyone who is caught on the wrong side of the law should be prosecuted because they tend to continue if you just warn them and there will be no end to corruption. It is like an everyday song about corruption. Perpetrators should be named and shamed and even prosecuted as a lesson to would–be offenders just like what happens to children when they steal. They are punished in order to teach them that stealing is bad. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF. CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: Madam President, I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC) HON.SEN. TIMVEOS: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House:
ACKNOWLEDGING the progress made by the Zimbabwe
Electoral Commission(ZEC) towards assuming its Constitutional mandate of ensuring that elections are conducted efficiently, freely, fairly, transparently and in accordance with the law;
FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING the financial restrictions facing ZEC due to scarcity of resources allocated by the Treasury and the interest from the international donors, including UNDP, to assist in supporting ZEC as a key pillar of democracy;
AWARE that the desire by government to engage the International Community as economic partners for the development of Zimbabwe will also be enhanced by inviting the widest range of international players to observe and monitor our national elections;
AWARE that the holding of a transparent, free and fair election in 2018 will depend on the integrity of the voters roll as well as an enabling environment;
NOTING the slow process of aligning the Electoral Act to the
Constitution means that there are areas wherein ZEC is acting unconstitutionally and that there have been actions by ZEC which have not been aligned even to the Electoral Act;
NOW, THERFORE, calls upon
- The Government to expeditiously align the provisions on
ZEC to the Constitution;
- ZEC to urgently engage with partners to implement the biometric voters roll in order to fulfill the Constitutional mandate; and
- Government to align the Electoral Act with the Constitution and create an electoral environment that complies with Article 17 of the African Union Charter on free and fair elections.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to debate my motion. Madam President, the purpose of this motion is to fulfill our legislative mandate of oversight with regard to the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission. we need to investigate closely where the Electoral Act is not aligning to the Constitution.
Mr. President, we also need to examine certain decisions and actions taken by ZEC which are not in line with the law and as legislators, our Constitution requires us to raise awareness on aspects of the political, economic and administrative environments which inhibit ZEC from fulfilling its mandate. We rate the environment in Zimbabwe based on the SADC Charter, principles and guidelines governing democratic elections as well as the AU Charter.
Mr. President, as Zimbabwe we are part of SADC and we should implement, sign, ratify and domesticate the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and Governance. This should be done as a matter of urgency. Mr. President, in my research I realised that there is quite a few countries that had signed this Treaty, for example Algeria, Kenya, Ghana, Lesotho, Malawi, Nigeria, just to name a few Mr. President and why should Zimbabwe be left behind. Zimbabwe is part of SADC and we should not be left behind in signing these treaties.
The general constitutional mandate of ZEC is to ensure that elections are conducted efficiently, freely, fairly, transparently and in accordance with the law. The General Laws Amendment (GLA) Bill denies the vote to certain citizens, for examples the diaspora, prisoners and those in hospitals. Let us say you are in hospital, you are not given an opportunity to vote. With regards to the diaspora, some countries have provisions to vote at embassies and consulates abroad.
Mr. President, the Electoral Court is also full of High Court Judges whereas Section 183 of the Constitution states that Judges cannot be appointed to sit in more than one court. The constitutional independence of ZEC is guaranteed by Section 235 yet this is compromised by Section 12 of the Electoral Act which requires ZEC to seek approval from the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs before accepting any donation. It is further compromised by Section 192 (6) of the Electoral Act which provides that regulations made by ZEC must be approved by the Minister as well.
Postal voting, Mr. President is allowed for security forces,
personnel engaged in election duties but does not provide safeguards for their votes to be made freely and fairly without intimidation from their superior officers. I realise that teachers should also be given the same opportunity because they also conduct elections during election time. They also work as election officers at all times and should actually be given an opportunity to vote as well. Mr. President, the Constitution also states that voter registration should be continuous and this should be followed at all costs.
I just want to ask the House how conducive the political, economic and administrative environment is to a free, fair and transparent election. Mr. President, we need political tolerance. We are all Zimbabweans and violence should not be allowed at all cost during elections. We need equal access to State media by all political parties before and during elections. ZBC continues to shun other political parties and surely this should not be allowed because the Constitution is so clear on this matter.
I also want to really sympathise today with our traditional leaders for being forced to frog-match people to vote against their will like we have seen in the past. This should not happen in an independent Zimbabwe. Our traditional leaders should be given all the respect and never be used by politicians.
Our Government should be well resourced as well for elections.
The AU Charter Article 15 (4) reads that ‘State parties shall provide the national independent and impartial electoral bodies with resources to perform their assigned missions efficiently and effectively’. So, in general Mr. President, it is clear that the current environment is not conducive to a transparent free and fair election. However, we welcome the biometric voting system and we hope our people will be taught well so that they adapt well to the new system.
Finally Mr. President, I call on the Government of Zimbabwe to give real freedom to the people of Zimbabwe by creating an enabling electoral environment, come 2018. I thank you so much Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, I stand to support the motion moved by Sen. Timveos. I will endeavour to deal with three or four points on this motion.
The Constitution of Zimbabwe does provide us with the opportunity to vote freely and express our will as we wish in a voting situation. In that process Mr. President, the referee is ZEC. ZEC is the referee before, during and after the voting. I therefore call upon ZEC to exercise that constitutional privilege which they have been given by our National Charter in order to ensure that if there are delays of six week after the vote, that should apply when the Government wins or loses. If there are no delays, they should similarly apply when the Government wins or loses. That is what we would consider to be an equitable refereeing.
The second point that I want to deal with is on the diaspora vote. We are advised that part of the problem that inhibits the conduct of the diaspora vote is the unavailability of funds. We know that we do not have money. I for one do not know what happened to the money that we had. However, we were made to understand initially that the UNDP was going to toolkit the biometric system equipment. Subsequently we understood that we as a Government are taking that over. I have a suggestion for Government, you have got a financier for the equipment, it will not compromise our sovereignty if we were sponsored by the UNDP. They sponsor us on a day to day basis and I do not see how it will compromise our status as a nation. I therefore, suggest that that money goes ahead and is used to toolkit the biometric system and the money that Government has found be redirected it to the registration of diasporans, particularly in the SADC region.
I do not believe that it will be difficult to register people in South Africa Botswana and Mozambique if we limit it to those states if we do not have money; at least we will be showing goodwill and affording the people in the diaspora an opportunity to vote. On a daily basis I talk to people in the diaspora, their hearts bleed for a vote, they would want to vote. However, they are afraid of two things that the system may not be fluid when they come home to vote and they will either travel into the country and arrive after the voting system is over. Once again ZEC should be an arbiter in that situation and make sure that all the nationals of Zimbabwe are allowed the opportunity to vote. It is an exciting experience to vote. Everybody yearns to vote, and we should endeavour to fulfill that wish.
Mr. President, I also noticed that Judge Justice Makarau has stated that one of her problems with running ZEC is the staff, some of whom she inherited from the past and others that were seconded. If indeed there are people who were seconded from other Ministries – everybody must be happy about the situation around ZEC. If people are not happy about the situation then I suggest those who may be found unsuitable should return to where they came from. The establishment is being increased on a daily basis in certain ministries, they should be able to find places for them. Alternatively, if they are unsuitable - retrench them. I am sure there would be people who are over 55 years of age, who would cherish to be retired at an early age in order to facilitate the so much needed transparency that all of us should require in ZEC.
The last point I want to make is the deployment of those people who run elections. The mover of the motion Hon. Sen. Timveos has referred to that situation. Mr. President, I suggest that one way to deal with that situation is to allow teachers to vote around where they have registered instead of deploying them all over the country where generally they are unable to vote. If anybody doubts my sincerity, I have talked to teachers, and to people who mann voting stations - they yearn to vote Mr. President. Let us maximize the opportunity to allow them to vote.
Last but not least, we are operation in a global village, it is critical that our elections are not only free and fair but they are seen to be free and fair. If we have nothing to hide, I do not understand why we should be too selective about who watches over our elections. It is important we want investment, we need relations with the international community, let us take the necessary steps to ensure ZEC can execute its mandate professionally and as freely as they possibly can, only for the benefit of Zimbabwe. Mr. President of the Senate with those remarks, I thank you.
HON. SEN. CARTER: Thank you Mr. President of the Senate
for the opportunity to speak on the motion. As outlined in the motion the holding of a transparent free and fair election depends on the integrity of the voters’ roll as well as an enabling environment. I would like to focus on these two things, integrity and the enabling environment.
Firstly the integrity of ZEC, for the people to trust the voters’ roll, they need to trust ZEC, can we trust ZEC? For the people of Zimbabwe to trust ZEC, several things should have been done already to build that
trust.
The first one has been mentioned already but I will mention it again. The Government should have aligned all electoral laws with the Constitution of Zimbabwe and they have not done this. Why would they choose not to do this? It is difficult for anyone to understand the reason. These issues were not addressed, the process of voter registration, voter education, compilation and access to the voters’ roll and the diaspora vote. Moreso the electoral court has not been reformed in line with Section 183. So, the necessary laws to empower ZEC have not been done.
Secondly, on the integrity side, ZEC needs to be an independent
Commission; the lack of independence of ZEC is illustrated by the
Government continuing to control the voters’ roll. It is a constitutional requirement for ZEC to supply opposition parties with an electronic version of the voters’ roll. The one that was used in 2013 and this, they failed to do; they said the computer is broken. This has been the answer for four years. There is a court order saying the 2013 roll must be supplied as soon as the Registrar General’s computer equipment is working. ZEC clearly has access to the 2013 electronic roll because it has been used in bi-elections and the 2013 has been supplied for constituencies where bi-elections has been held.
An application by civil society for the current electronic voters’ roll and that will be the 2013 roll as well as the bi-elections updates got the response that it would be supplied as soon as possible and everybody’s hopes went up, but that never happened. ZEC is controlled by a former Major in the Zimbabwe National Army Captain Utoile
Silaigwana. He has admitted to withholding the 2013 roll on orders from somewhere. It will not be possible to properly order the 2018 role unless the 2013 roll is made available for comparison. When you ask
ZEC for the 2013 roll…
HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: On a point of order Mr. President of
the Senate.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: What is your
point of order?
HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: The Hon. Senator is reading.
HON. SEN. CARTER: I am referring to notes.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Go on.
HON. SEN. CARTER: Thank you. So, when you ask ZEC for
the 2013 voters’ roll they will direct you to the Registrar General and when you ask the Registrar-General for the 2013 voters’ roll he says he has nothing to do with registration anymore. Therefore, control of the voters’ roll is at the core of the control that is needed by Government. So, Government is not following the law in producing the voters’ roll and when a Government does not follow its own law then public trust collapses. So, the independence of ZEC is a crucial thing and I need to illustrate it with one more example. It is about the biometric voters’ roll. So, the UNDP, as you have heard mentioned, agreed to provide technical services around the Biometric Voters’ Roll. They also agreed to pay for the procurement of the equipment and a Procurement Equipment Committee was set up consisting of five people from UNDP and four from ZEC, led by Captain Silaigwana. Once the tenders came in for evaluation, Government, through ZEC realised that they could not control the tender process because there were more UNDP people on the committee. So, the only way to keep control therefore, was to abandon the relationship with UNDP.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Is that a fact or opinion that Government realised that they had no control?
HON. SEN. CARTER: As far as I know, it is factual Mr.
President, but the point is that we have been informed that they have abandoned the UNDP. Is that a fact or opinion? How do we verify that?
However, the fact, I am told, is that they have abandoned UNDP. So, Government will now take control of the BVR and roll it out. This is not a fact but I understand that it will be through the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I only say that because I have heard that, so if it is not true, we can discuss that but if it is true - because there is no other way they can do it, then this is another contradiction of ZECs independence. So, the independence of ZEC has totally collapsed into a branch of Government.
Talking further about the integrity, as we have already heard, ZEC should be well funded but I see in the budget $9.7 million allocated to ZEC. $6 million of that amount is for employment and $3.6 million is for operations, leaving $100,000 for capital. So there is no money for funding the BVR. When Government went into this relationship with UNDP, it was meant to put in $17 million. Where will the money for the budget come from? I am afraid that the lack of funding and budgetary money that has been allocated again undermines the integrity and trust that people have for ZEC. There are three more requirements needed to build the integrity of ZEC. They should adhere to regional principles of voter registration, voting and results management. They should be involved in continuous voter education and they should extend the right to vote to all eligible citizens. But because ZEC lacks independence, integrity, transparency and funding, it is fatally flawed and unable to adhere to these regional principles.
I will now move on to the environment. As I outlined in the beginning, the holding of a transparent, free and fair election depends on the integrity of the voters roll and the enabling environment. Allow me to read a few lines from this report. This report is from the Counselling Services Unit and is referring to the political violence that happened in January this year. Government and ZEC should have zero tolerance of political violence. In January this year CSU reported that; there continues to be reports of politically motivated attacks on opposition supporters in both rural and urban constituencies. In all the cases in
January, ZANU PF supporters were alleged to be the main perpetrators.
A worrying aspect of the ZANU PF instigated political violence is that the ZRP officers refused to assist the victims. On 19th January, 2017 two days before the by election of the Bikita West House of Assembly seat, the NCA candidate was attacked by armed ZANU PF supporters and left for dead. Now that the ZRP know that ZEC has issued a statement, are they taking any action against these blatant violations of electoral regulations? My point is, it is often difficult to know who did it but ZEC should have stood up and condemned it. That is the main point I am trying to make.
The second part on environment is equitable media coverage which also has been mentioned and is very clear that there is no access to media coverage for all political parties. It is just obvious that it is the case but ZEC remains silent. Before any by-election, it should be speaking out on that matter but it is not speaking out. So, in no sense can anyone claim that we have an enabling media environment. It is simply not true.
Now, moving on to election observers, a framework for long term election observation should be established. If we want Foreign Direct Investment to come into this country, it starts with bringing in people to see how we operate, see our elections and if everything works before they say yes, we trust this process. That will encourage investment, but if we keep people out and we have already been told that unfriendly countries will not be invited- I presume they were referring to America and the European Union. You are restricting them so they will not be keen to invest. It is as if there is something to hide and this is the opposite of an enabling observer environment. On these three issues, it is simple to see that we lack the enabling environment that is necessary.
In conclusion therefore, we are left with a situation where ZEC is clearly unable to deliver a free and fair election. ZEC is a State captured institution which will not allow the necessary reforms required and as a country, we are imprisoning ourselves. I thank you Mr. President. HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD
MARRIAGES
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on SADC Model
Law on Eradicating Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. D. T. KHUMALO: The SADC Model Law which
was moved by Senator Mohadi is a very useful motion in that it says, let us agree that the girl child should grow. At the present moment we have different laws which do not make it clear whether we want the girl child to grow. We have at the present moment, a law which says when a girl is 16 years, she can go around and have sex but she cannot get married. Our own Constitution says anybody under the age of 18 years is a child and cannot get married but we are saying, a 16 year old child can have sex but cannot get married. Therefore, we are allowing these unscrupulous people to have sex and give these children babies, and leave them because they cannot marry them.
We are saying that should not be allowed. Let us accept what the SADC Model Law says. It says no child under 18 years can consent to anything. Can Zimbabwe also accept that? The SADC Model Law says if there is anybody who gets married, wherever the person gets married, that marriage must be registered. The offices for registration of marriages are very far. The rural people are not able to have access because they will need to have money and it is difficult to have money.
Therefore, they end up having unregistered marriages. I am suggesting that the marriages must be registered. We have our traditional people, our traditional chiefs and their village heads, should be part of witnessing those marriages and have the books to register those marriages so that there is nobody without a registered marriage. If it is not registered, it is not recognised. Can everybody have a recognised marriage which can be registered by the village heads who will take it to the chief and the chief is the final person to make sure that within his area, who is married and who is not married.
This is because we will end up with people having two marriages. They have the lobola and agree to have five wives or they get married in the church and everybody knows that they were married in the church, but at the end, they go and marry another one secretly. If this was done at the local level, the chiefs would know that this person is cheating this young woman whom he now wants to marry yet he has another marriage. Is this one he is marrying as the second wife consenting to be the second wife? Cheating will not be that much if the chiefs were involved in the registration of marriages.
If in any case there is a marriage which takes place in the rural areas which is for a person who is under 18 years, you know traditionally that we invite people like aunties and gogos for that marriage ceremony to make sure that they are celebrating the marriage. Can these elderly people who are witnesses to a marriage of an under 18 year old be arrested. Can we inform the police that down there, is a wedding for a girl who is under 18 years and all those people are witnesses. I would recommend that those people be arrested as well. If they are arrested, they will be a different judgement.
For example, the elderly people who are there should do what is called community service. They should cut grass in the community so that everybody asks as to why they are cutting grass. They will then say it is because I was at a wedding of my muroora or whoever it is, so that they are embarrassed and next time, people are not going to do that. The parents of this girl who is getting married should go to jail so that next time, they know that you are not supposed to allow a child who is under 18 years to get married. It will be a deterrent because everybody is going to talk about it and say do you know that Mai So and So and Baba So and So are in jail because they were marrying their daughter at a younger age. Everybody will be afraid of marrying children who are under 18 years.
The other thing that I thought was interesting about the SADC
Model Law is that it collected all the information from different international statutes so that it brings everything together like the
African Charter, Maputo Protocol and the 1979 CEDOW. They are all put together to make sure that everything has been put together. I am therefore asking this House to help on what Senator Mohadi has said. Can we ratify the SADC Model Law so that we can use most of it and follow it as a country and as a nation so that we are proud that we are the signatories and therefore, we are going to follow what is in the SADC Model Law? I thank you Mr. President and I hope this House will support this SADC Model Law. Thank you.
*HON. SENATOR MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion raised by Hon. Senator Mohadi. The SADC Model Law can also be referred to as an agreement which has to be ratified by other countries. I believe as Zimbabwean Parliament, we have debated this motion at length and it has also been debated in the region. It has even gone international. The marrying off of young girls is a problem in a country like Zimbabwe.
We have heard some Members who made contributions saying this is a law which is aimed at protecting these young children because we need to give these youngsters time to mature and get into a marriage knowing what they are getting into.
If an under age girl gets married, she will still be immature and this is a disadvantage to the country. We are debating the issue because we are saying the developing or education of this young girl is disturbed. When you disturb her education, you are also disturbing the development of the country. We know a housewife is the backbone of a home, but if this young girl gets into an early marriage, she has no clue and has not matured mentally. At times, these girls are married off to elderly men and yet despite the fact that being mature, their physic is also not ready for the household chores which she has to face. I believe we debated this at length and it is our wish that the Minister responsible for this Ministry comes and responds because we would like to hear what she is going to say. Would she talk about child marriages? We also debated the case of some orphanages where inmates are ill-treated or the homes are underfunded.
This is a problem in the country because these early marriages have led some children to be parents. Some were made pregnant while still at school and their lives have been disturbed. What we are saying is that we are begging that these people should look for ways of looking after the affected young girls. We need to sit down as a country and craft ways and means of protecting these young girls and do away with early marriages.
What is painful is that some men who marry these young girls are also old men. We have a feeling that there should be some control mechanisms which build in controlling the behaviour of these children. As parents, we should control the movements of our children especially coming home late at night. We have some homes where there is no rule of law. The children there only behave as they want and they come in and go out as much as they want. The big question is - where did you borrow this culture from or where did you get these ways of living? We believe that these young stars who are left to roam at will with no parental guidance are the ones who indulge in early marriages and early sexual activities, hence have children who are either dumped or taken to the orphanages.
We need to be as parents. Follow what the Bible says and according to Proverbs, it says spare the rod and spoil the child because we know that some of us when we were growing up, our parents did not spare the rod. Whenever you made anything against the rules of the home you were really thrashed. Our children are being protected because of the human rights. You are supposed to do what is good for a child? The child has rights. If you thrash your child for misdemeanor you can even be prosecuted, but in the past the father or mother would punish that child and nobody would say you are committing an offence.
We then wonder what kind of a world we are living in you ask if this Zimbabwean is a whiteman or a blackman because of the cultures. You look at it and make a similarity of somebody who is travelling on a foot path across a bridge because it will be swaying to and from; it is not steady.
We also said our chiefs should be empowered so that they lead people in the resettlement areas. This is the kind of a culture we need to adopt of controlling our children. If it means we have to thrash them, let us thrash do so and let us not follow these international rules on children’s rights because we are suffering a lot. Our resources are not adequate to take care of these children. We need to take ways of protecting our culture and children hence the future of Zimbabwe, I thank you. –[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President forgiving me the opportunity to debate this motion regarding the National Pledge which is to be recited by learners at school. I also want to thank Hon. Dr. Dokora for introducing this pledge because the aim is for the children to inculcate a culture of patriotism, unity of purpose and a common desire for equating justice according to the Constitution. We know that learners or children should understand their culture and they should know how we as the African people of Zimbabwe are supposed to live. We also asked as members of the Senate, that we should encourage the children to know the aims and importance of education. They should also know that the natural resources of the country belong to them and it is for the development of their country.
During our time when went to school, we used to go to school barefooted and yet Bata Shoe company was in existence but we could not afford to buy those school shoes. In some instances, children were not allowed to put on those shoes. Talking about the toilet, we could get into the toilet barefooted in badly constructed toilets with floors which were similar to trench toilets but we simply used them and we developed.
We got to a stage where we had to fight for the liberation of our country. We have children of Zimbabwe, some of whom died and others were maimed in the war of liberation. We also had a case whereby the schools we attended, were inspected by White inspectors yet we used to teach the children the history and the culture of our country. When we were going to school there was an organisation called the Girls Guides and the Boys Scouts. We had to make a pledge according to the Scouts supporting the Rhodesian Government and this was done from Sub A to Standard 6. Hence as people of an independent Zimbabwe, we should teach our children to be patriotic and be culturally oriented.
Let me recite the pledge that we used to recite during my school days because I still know it. There was war and shots being fired but we kept on fighting for the liberation of the country despite all the wars that were going on around us because we believed in patriotism and independence of our country. Currently, our children go to school putting on shoes and refuse to attend school without shoes. There was a time when it was compulsory for school children to wear shoes called,
‘Toughies’. These days some children will not even attend school without a lunchbox. We should acknowledge that our Government is taking care of the welfare of the people in a better way than what used to be done by the Smith regime.
This is the pledge that we used to recite, “I promise on my own and it is my duty to do my best and to uphold …” This is the pledge that we used to recite as Girl Guides and the Boy Scouts also had their own pledge. As parents, we need to inculcate these values of patriotism because we need to talk about the independence of our country and uphold our sovereignty. We have an intelligent Minister in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education and we should support him. I know children are children and there may be some delinquencies but when we have inculcated some moral values in them, they will definitely be good citizens. We need to protect them by creating this culture of patriotism.
Our Constitution, as the supreme law of the country, guides where we are going. Some people tell their children that we are now putting on ties, walking on pavements and driving cars but all these came through the attainment of independence because there were some forbidden areas during the Smith regime. For example, in the farms there were schools which only ended at Sub A and Sub B. These were meant to educate the Africans in the agriculture language because they were not a threat when they were not educated. The whites used to believe that an educated African was difficult to govern.
We had companies such as David Whitehead and Bata Shoes, despite the fact that people were working there, there was still oppression. We liberated the country with the onset of the liberation struggle. Upon attaining independence, those who intended to return to school did so freely. So, let us be like the children of Israel who fought for their independence by moving from Egypt to Israel, a land of milk and honey. We are in a land of milk and honey, Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Mr.
President Sir. I would like to add my voice to this motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi regarding the national pledge that is being recited in schools because our children should know the history of their country. Hence we will be inculcating the values of patriotism.
We support fully this initiative by the Hon. Minister, Dr. Dokora and support the upholding of this national pledge as it upholds the principles of patriotism. I am sure of the fact that when the Hon.
Minister introduced this national pledge, he had researched thoroughly.
I say so because I fully support the contribution by the previous Senator. Hon. Sen. Manyeruke. When we were in school, during the Smith or the colonial regime, education was aimed at creating a soft and obedient African and it was very painful. I had a personal experience when I was beaten by a teacher after failing to respond to the question - Who is the mother colony of your country Rhodesia? I failed that and was beaten because the answer was - the mother colony was Britain and America.
So you can imagine the cruelty that was perpetrated by the colonialists. I am saying; let us inculcate the spirit of patriotism and our African culture.
How can one be expected to uphold the name of one’s oppressor?
For instance, during our hay days, we would talk about who discovered
India, Vasco Da Gama yet we did not know anything about our Chief
Chingaira. We would talk about the Magellans and Vasco Da Gamas’. Therefore, what the motion raises in this pledge should be supported by this august House. I remember some of our children talking about the
Prince Charles’s son; they would google the picture on WhatsApp and kiss it. Kissing the royalty yet when a child is born in the chieftainship such as Mambo Musarurwa or Mambo Chiduku, nobody would kiss that
picture.
If we inculcate the values of patriotism and our African culture, they would know what this all means when we talk about chieftainship like Chief Musarurwa or Mambo Ngungubane. Even the current topical issue of early marriages, we would be following our culture and know that this is wrong. I am saying let us be patriotic. Love your country as much as you love yourself. I know there is no British or American child who does not know how to recite their Constitution because this is inculcated in them in schools. I am saying, as members of this august Senate; let us support the recitation of the national pledge and the history of our country and culture.
As stated by Hon. Sen. Makore, that was very pertinent and we should support that. I am pleading with this House to support this motion fully because this is the backbone of the Zimbabwean culture. This is the backbone of the history of Zimbabwe and opening up of our minds that all the natural resources, the fauna and flora belong to the people of Zimbabwe. We should preserve them for the development of our country. This is why I said, I need to make some inclusions and additions in support of this motion because it is a very pertinent, important and essential motion. I believe that through working on the pledges and history of our country, we will be able to inculcate the values of patriotism, hunhuism, ubuntu and we will know why we have
Chiefs where we are going and where we are coming from. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY
POLITICAL PARTIES
Seventh Order read: adjourned debate on motion on violence that has become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: I rise to support the motion which was raised by Hon. Senator B. Sibanda and seconded by Hon. S. Ncube. This motion talks of violence in its context as the application of force by one party on another in order to achieve negative objectives. Mr. President, the country is still heavily infested with violence, mainly socio and political with the political violators and politically violated.
Mr. President, you only need to go into communal areas and see how politics is applied on almost everything, including food distribution which falls under the District Administrators’ office, presidential inputs distribution, Chinese rice and many other things. There is violence against the stomachs of citizens – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.].
Mr. President, such practice where only one party benefits at the expense of all other parties does not augur well with the gospel that we preach on a daily basis. We do have a Peace and Security Committee in this august House and this is a serious infringement on other individuals’ peace and security rights which we as Senators are supposed to protect.
Mr. President, this country must do everything in its power to enable its citizens to live harmoniously in a politically violent free Zimbabwe. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me the opportunity to support the motion raised by Hon. Sibanda and seconded by Hon. Ncube. Really, violence is a pain in the life of people. Let us take a look at domestic violence. When the parents are fighting, the stability of the children is disturbed because of what will be happening. It even disturbs their progress at school. I remember when we were growing up being told that in the areas of Chihota and Seke, they were places which were no go areas, especially in the evenings or if you were a foreigner. At times, when one was at the age of marriage and you go and tell your parents that I want to marry somebody from Seke or Chihota, people would be very much unsettled because these places were notorious.
It is also likely that if you live in a family where there is always domestic violence, when you say you want to marry into that family there is always a problem from your family because they know that you will be importing violence into their family. Of all the forms of violence, the worst is political violence because we have some people who think when we talk of political violence people may forget. What has really happened is in political violence; if you are violated or assaulted you will never forget. We have people who have assaulted other people and forgotten about it.
We have a mass grave in Marondera where people were buried in 2008. A lot of bodies had been dumped in Wenimbe Dam and the bodies were retrieved from there. These people died due to political violence. The people were buried in this unmarked grave. We are saying political violence is a scourge. I remember during those days if you were to go for whatever reason visiting Marondera Mortuary, you would feel the pain and be terrified because of the bodies thrown around. Some of the bodies were throwing out some pungent smell and a lot of maggots. These were the bodies of people who had died during that political turmoil.
As a result, we are saying as human beings let us respect each other’s political beliefs because it comes even to a case where we have some street kids fighting. As a person, you are really touched by that …
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: My point of order is that the Hon. Member makes a very interesting statement that there is a mass grave somewhere in Marondera. If this is a fact Mr. President, could we be favoured with evidence or a report that was made to the police so that the issue is put to rest? I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: This is very true that there is a mass grave because it is near a gum tree plantation. If you want to exhume, I can lead the people for exhumation of those bodies because I have some tangible evidence on the existence of such a grave.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Chifamba
address the Chair please.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Like I have said, this is the place that I know. It is not hearsay and I can tell you that even if you were to blindfold me I can lead you to that place. If you were to exhume, you would find a lot of bodies which were buried there. These bodies were retrieved from the Wenimbe Dam. That is why I am saying violence in all its forms, is very diabolic and satanic because when I saw these people who were retrieved and put at Marondera Mortuary, I became emotional.
Hon. Chief Musarurwa advised that whenever people are coming for an organisation meeting or whatever, they should first of all seek the permission of the traditional leader. I sympathise with you Hon. Sen. Chief because if you had to give us the permission to hold a political rally as an opposition you will definitely be in problems. This is a fact because in Zimbabwe the Chief should not allow you to hold our rally if you do not belong to the correct party - regardless of where you go, even if you go to the police and seek for permission to hold a political rally in that area, you are told that the place where you want to hold your rally has already been booked and therefore you need to have ways of being a delinquent and hold that meeting without permission.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President of the
Senate. I rise to support the motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda. I would like to support the fact that violence is an integral part of our social political way in life. I am going to debate more on the violence which I have got detailed statistics on - gender based violence, which is among our society and this has got to be dealt with. Gender based violence is one of the most common yet unacknowledged - not even documented. It is a serious human rights violation in our society that we as Members of Parliament need to seriously look at and see how we can stop it. Yes, it is true our Government has come up with quite a number of laws, Domestic Violence Act to protect the survivors but the question is the number of gender based violence cases is still going up. What is it that we can do as people who have been elected by the people to defend them?
We need police stations which are highly friendly so that those who are victims can get their cases across and be helped. The victim friendly units of the police - we need more of those and also to make sure that they are actually giving the privacy which the victims would want when they are talking about gender based violence. The most commonly reported form of violence is actually against women by their intimate partner; what is referred to as intimate partner violence.
Mr. President of the Senate, a married woman can report violence against her husband and that should be taken seriously because there is no sane wife who would report her husband being violent on her when that husband loves her. So, this is something we need to seriously teach our people and also make sure that the police take them very seriously. We have been given statistics again and again how serious gender based violence is. We know that Mashonaland Central Province has got the highest percentage of violence and we know that Matabeleland South, Midlands and Harare becomes the eighth highest.
The prevalence of all these forms of violence against women, there are especially physical, sexual or even kutuka pabasa - it is violence, it makes people feel uncomfortable in their own country. The question which I am asking this august Senate what is that we can do, a lot more has been done. The legal framework is there, the Constitution is a female document, is there implementation about what is on those documents? It is not enough to have this Constitution which has got all these wonderful provisions to protect the women and girls and yet nothing is being done. There is not implementation. The question is it is us as Members of Parliament who should uphold everything which is in that Constitution. So, what can we do to make sure that what is in the Constitution is implemented so that at least we can live as a progressive developing nation where both men and women live nicely?
The research which was done by ZIMSTARTS found that 68% of the women whom they interviewed about 3326 women had experienced some form of gender based violence in their life time. So, you can see when we speak of gender based violence, it is a very serious issue in our society. On the other hand, 3274 men who were interviewed, 46% actually admitted to having perpetrated some of violence to their partners. So, this is something we need to serious look at. The most dominate form of GBV as I have said, is actually young people being abused by elderly men.
When we visited Musasa Project; we saw young girls 9, 10 and 11 years who have been impregnated by a relative within the families they live in. Our people instead of looking after their children – in our society if I die today, my children are my sister’s children are my brother’s children. It is no longer the case today and what has happened to the moral fabric, what can we do to restore that so that we look after our children so that we have good leaders of tomorrow.
Mr. President, women with secondary education experience less violence, so the question of pushing for the girl child to go to school, the question of making sure that girls just do not end at primary level, they go to secondary level and to tertiary level is also very important. Statistics show that most of the women who experience violence are less educated, so education itself is a protective factor for women. Really as Members of Parliament, we need to make sure that our girl children, our women are educated - even those who are in marriage, that is why the model SADC law is talking about protecting those young girls who are in marriage so that they go back to school and education becomes a protective factor in society.
We also want Government to expedite the development of mandatory sentences to perpetrators. A lot has been said - some have been even talking about having them jailed for life, for 30 or 40 years. We need a mandatory sentence for those perpetrators. We also want the period which they are going to be jailed stated somehow in the Act of Parliament. This will make gender based violence a crime that is very serious. We want a sentence which is deterrent, it is too lenient people think it is okay, I can do it and I can get away with it. I am saying we need really serious mandatory sentencing. We would also want current costs of protection orders that applicants pay to be reduced, because a lot of victims fail to raise that amount. So, if that can be reduced more and more victims will be able to go to the police and report. Mr. President, as I say education, education can bring the number of victims down. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 68TH SESSION OF THE
EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY
UNION
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 68th Session of the Executive Committee of the African Parliamentary Union.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE STATUS OF CHILDREN’S HOMES
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the Status of Children’s Homes.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON EARLY CHILD MARRIAGES
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Early Child Marriages.
Question again proposed
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 39TH PLENARY
ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
Twelfth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 39th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd February, 2017
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUMVURI seconded by HON. SEN MARAVA, the Senate adjourned at Sixteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 23rd February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. Bimha. Please explain what the Government policy is regarding the products which are selected for duty free in the industry; what is the criteria used because people in the constituencies want to know. They want to know which industries are covered by this programme so that they get into business and develop our country. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen.
Chief Musarurwa for such a pertinent question. The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is responsible for policies on duty and also selection of products which maybe imported at a certain duty which has been laid down or products which may not be levied a duty. As a
Ministry, we coordinate with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development on products which may have duty levied on them. When we talk of goods which should have duty imposed on them, these are products similar to those which are manufactured in this country. The aim of this project is to protect our industry. We would want people to be patriotic and buy goods manufactured in the country. As a result, when goods similar to those which are manufactured in Zimbabwe are imported, we call for a high duty so that we prohibit importation of those goods.
There are times whereby we feel these goods are no longer being adequately manufactured in the country; hence we remove the duty so that the goods can come in easily. There are times whereby we ask the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to reduce or cut off duty completed from other imported goods such as raw materials which we use for manufacturing certain products in this country; hence we say remove the duty or waive very low duty.
On the third part, we also have some duties which are laid out according to the agreements made within trading groups such as SADC, COMESA or AU. As members of these organisations, we have a standard laid down on the products and we have to follow that because we have agreed as member countries that when we import such goods, the amount is so much. Like I have stated, this involves SADC. Again, we may also have agreements between two countries which are bilateral such as agreement between Zimbabwe and Zambia or Zimbabwe and South Africa. When such an agreement has been made, we then take it to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development for implementation because they are responsible for the fiscus of the nation.
Let me add, at times Madam President, we also have some other statutory instruments which we put in place to protect our industries such as Statutory Instrument No. 64. We did not call for a higher tax but said the goods which we manufacture should definitely be prohibited from coming into the country. The main aim is to support our industry so that we grow it and create jobs. Usually, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development imposes value added tax on some goods which may seem to be a luxury to other people but for the essential goods, the tax is very low or non-existent. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: My question is also directed to the
Minister of Industry and Commerce. Minister, can you update this House and the nation about the success or failure of S.I. 64 (2016), whether it has met its objectives or not? Thank you
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam President. I would also like to thank the Hon. Sen. for a very pertinent question.
Madam President, where I come from they say, mushonga unovava ndiwo unorapa. When S.I. 64 (2016) came on board, there was an outcry from within and without but towards the end of last year, my
Ministry was inundated with letters and calls from the producers who were now very happy that Government had put measures that propelled their production. Companies that were about to close were now on an upward scale and there is, every year, an exercise carried out by
Confederation of Zimbabwe Industries (CZI) called the ‘manufacturing sector survey’. In that survey, they will be trying to assess the capacity utilisation of industry. The capacity utilisation as per their last exercise had increased by 13% from 33% to 47% - [HON. SENATORS: Hear,
hear.] – This was the first time in six years for the capacity utilisation to go up. Six years ago, capacity utilisation was on a decline every year by 2% or 3% and only last year it jumped to a 13% point. That is no mean achievement and this is not an exercise carried out by Government, by the way, but carried out by CZI.
If you look at those sectors because this capacity utilisation is an average figure and because it is an average figure, you then want to go and look at those sub-sectors which scored high. When you do that you will find that those sectors that had the support of S.I. 64 were the ones that had put that average upwards. So, in terms of measurement, in a scientific manner, that statistic alone will show you that the measures that we took including S.I. 64 were really beneficial.
Secondly, when those companies that were exporting to Zimbabwe realised that we were having measures to stop the imports, instead of forcing imports, they came to set up shop here which creates employment. For example, there is a company in Mutare called Willowton that used to export cooking oil to Zimbabwe. When we put the S.I. 64, it meant that their brand called, D’lite was no longer coming in. So they decided to say look, because we can no longer export to Zimbabwe, we go to Zimbabwe and put up a factory. They have now put up a factory in Mutare. - [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Not only are they going to produce cooking oil, but they are also going to be producing margarine and soap. In so doing, they will be creating employment.
There are so many other investors that have come. There was an investor Madam President, from Zambia. They were exporting a washing powder to Zimbabwe, which I think we all know - ‘Boom’.
They have a factory in Zambia but because of the measures, they have come and set up a factory in our industrial site at the moment. In two months time, we will see the commissioning of that plant. - [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – They will also be diversifying into potato crisp and other products as a result. They have come in because of the measures that we have taken. The list goes on and on but the facts are there to indicate that the measures that we have taken to support our local industries are really bearing fruit.
The cooking oil industry was probably one of those where we are now experiencing companies now going into exports because they are producing enough cooking to supply our local demand as well as export to other countries. So, in short, the measures are now bearing fruits. What we want to see is supporting those measures. In other words, for example, when we came up with S.I. 64, the idea was to give time to those local producers to retool and re-equip so that they get the modern machinery and technology and that they will have grown and will be able to walk on their own when we open up.
What it means is that they need funding to retool and buy new machinery and there is a targeted fund that has been facilitated by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe that those companies that have benefited from S. I. 64 and require funding in terms of re-equipping and retooling access that funding. We also have a similar facility within Common
Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA), the Preferential Trade Area Bank (PTA bank) and the African Development Bank have also come on board to support that very idea. So, we believe if we continue to come up with measures to support our local producers, but at the same time we must also warn our local producers that support does not mean that it is passport for them to hike prices because of the fact that they are being supported. We also want them to be responsible and give something.
In other words, they have to try and get the prices down because they now enjoy volumes since competition is no longer there. Therefore, when you enjoy volumes, it must push your cost of production down and in the end it must translate into lower prices. That is what we want to look at and make sure they also act responsibly. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President, thank you Minister for the explanation that you have given on the progress in industry. We also hope that you will bring a detailed Ministerial Statement to that effect. The House and the country as a whole would immensely benefit from those statistics. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: My question is also directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce on the issue of micro-nutrients. It was agreed in 2011 that to improve the nutrition status of Zimbabweans, there has to be addition of micro-nutrients into food stuffs such as mealie-meal and others. How far are you following that so that even the small firms can also make sure that they add those micro-nutrients, i.e. vitamins, irons, iodines and Vitamin A, B and so forth. How far are you supervising and making sure that even the small factories which are cheaper for us, we choose those ones? That is why they also need to be monitored. How far are you monitoring them?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Just to thank the Senator for the question. I am not so sure whether I am really qualified to give you the right answer because the issue of these nutrients are more to do with certain standards which are given to the producers and this is beyond us as a Ministry. Our thrust is really to assist those who are in the manufacturing sector to be able to produce and facilitate the growth of factories but in terms of the recipe and requirements of their product is not really within the domain of my Ministry. Obviously, I would think it is an issue that needs to be referred to the appropriate Ministry.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Supplementary. There is PPP …
THE HON PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Can it be
supplementary when he says the original question does not fall under his Ministry.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: No, because it says the Ministry of Industry and Commerce is the one which does the PPP with the businesses. It has to be the one which ensures that happens. Ministry of Health cannot go and supervise industry because I thought that is an industry issue.
HON. BIMHA: Well, my understanding of PPP is Private Public
Partnership which is a completely different thing. It is really a way of encouraging investment where we are talking of foreign investors coming into joint ventures with local partners or where Government also participates. That is probably what you are referring to. However, in terms of standards there is the Standards Association of Zimbabwe. Their role is to set standards and encourage players in the manufacturing sector to comply with those standards.
Madam President, as of now the Standards Association of Zimbabwe does not have a regulatory authority to enforce those standards that they come up with. Hence, we are in the process of coming up with a Bill to Parliament on the setting up of a National Standards Regulatory Authority. It could be in the end an issue of restructuring the Standards Association of Zimbabwe but as of now, we do not have the law where Standards Association of Zimbabwe enforces standards but it encourages the conformity to standards. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce is, Minister you have given a positive trend in commerce and industry, and it is again common knowledge that the economy is not performing in this country. Do we have any companies you can list that have improved in capacity utilisation, big companies because we are not talking of small companies? For us to talk about the growth of the economy big companies should be performing, not closing down. Can you give examples of those companies?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): I think the suggestion that was made by Hon. Senator Chief Charumbira would be the only way to cater for this question because there are so many examples which I cannot think of offhand in terms of capacity utilisation. The statement that I will bring to this House will bring the capacity utilisation by sector to say food, plastics and et cetera. Capacity utilisation increase from the previous year (2015) to last year (2016) and I would then zero in on specific companies. Companies like Tregers, Cairns and there are so many of these examples. In the dairy industry and processing, and food industry there are examples that I can give company by company, sector by sector but I think if I bring up a statement here, it will probably be more informative than just giving two or three examples that I can think offhand. I thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Are you
proposing to the Hon. Senator that he puts his question in writing?
HON. BIMHA: Yes.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question goes to the Minister of
Industry and Commerce. Minister, can you please explain to the House why ex-ZISCO Steel workers have not been paid up to now and why they were not given any packages when ZISCO folded?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam President and Hon. Senator for the question. Any question relating to ZISCO, you cannot just ask in isolation. You need to give the background. It was not just a question of not giving packages. One has to go back to the background then we will give a good context to the answer.
Under normal circumstances, when a company is unable to pay its debts and has borrowed so much money that it is unable to repay, in law that company will be allowed to fold. In most cases, whatever can be recovered from that company will then be distributed pro rata, on how much is owed to the various creditors. In some cases, employees go without anything because the company does not have the money. Now, because this was an institution that Government had an interest in, Government did not go that route to say there is no money so workers you can go. They kept them - giving them the little that they could manage to secure from different types. So much has happened. There are a number of workers who have left. Some have volunteered to go.
It is quite a long story but what I think is more important is where we are now. We still have workers there. Fortunately, just two weeks or so ago, the representatives of the workers and unions were in my office.
I am now giving them on a fortnightly basis an overview of what Government is doing to rehabilitate ZISCO because their interest, apart from their immediate needs, at the end of the day, the issue is there any future for us. We are doing the best we can to make sure that those workers who are still there we find ways of paying them. We are working together with the Minister of Mines and Minister of Finance and Economic Development to ensure that we cater for their needs, particularly in terms of schooling as well as medical expenses. We are putting together a structure to assist them. It is probably too early for me to be able to divulge the details, but we are working on something to ensure that we keep them alive - but more importantly, that we continue to appraise them of what we are doing that ultimately ZISCO comes back on stream. I think this is priority number 1, we do have their interests and we do as I say we are doing a number of things to make sure that we keep our workers and we are keeping them informed. The board and management also is very much in touch with them in terms of giving them the information of where we are and what we are going to do to pay for their welfare needs. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President, my
question goes to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. In view of the fact that we have foreign currency shortages, has Government as facilitator, in liaison with various stakeholders, identified priority industrial clusters or sectors that must be resuscitated in sequence?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you very much Madam President of the Senate and the Hon. Sen. for the question. My answer will be in two parts. As of now, there is need for us to mobilize as much foreign currency as possible to enable our industrialists to be able to get the much needed raw materials.
The priority has been given to raw materials. As you are aware, the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe came up with a priority list and raw materials are actually number one. So, the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe has gone out of its way to assist those companies that require foreign currency for raw materials.
In cases where they do not have the funding, they have also come up with certain structures or packages to assist these companies. One of those schemes is what they call the guarantee system, where the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe approaches the supplier of raw materials or equipment and gives guarantee that you can supply company X with the raw materials required on the strength of the guarantee of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Governor, without foreign currency being exchanged. Therefore, that has helped a number of our companies to access the raw materials that they require without necessarily money changing hands.
There are other facilities that Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe is working to assist these companies. Having said that, there is also the question of saying is there any priority in terms of sectors’ assistance. The answer is yes; our thrust in terms of industrialization is really on value addition and beneficiation. Therefore, companies that are involved in value addition and beneficiation receive priority.
Companies that are into export receive priority because its exports that will generate the much needed foreign currency. Therefore, we need to support those companies that generate foreign currency so that we also in return grow our economy.
Definitely, there is priority in terms of exporters, priority in terms of those companies in value addition and beneficiation. There is also priority in those sectors that we have identified within ZIM ASSET as critically to our industrial development and one example is food processing. Why food processing? Food processing is very much linked to agriculture and agriculture is our mainstay; so the more we produce from our land the more we can grow our industry because there is a very strong linkage between agriculture and industry. In any case, most of what we produce in industry goes back to agriculture. As a result, we give priority in those sectors. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Minister of State in Vice President Mnangagwa’s Office, Hon. C. Sibanda. Zimbabwe Government and the United Nations through UNDP have entered into a contract whereby UNDP was going to assist in the procurement of Biometric Voters Roll Equipment (BVR) to use in the forthcoming election. Is this contract still standing, are the two parties still towing their agreement because there is talk that one of the contracting parties might be reneging?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I do not think the
Minister is in a position to answer that question, it is not directed to his ministry.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I thought through your position this falls right in the Leader of the House’s purview.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Sibanda is a
Minister in the Vice President Mnangagwa’s Office, not the ministry.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. During the first part of this year there was a huge outcry when you introduced Statutory Instrument No. 20, and it was huge because I believe even Ministers were also affected by the increases. We were happy that the instrument was later rescinded. What we see is that prices are still as they were and the argument we get from the shops is that – blame me, I am not an economist. They say they bought...
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, Hon.
Senator ask your question.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: My question is what measures you are
now taking to ensure that the business community complies with the withdrawal of Instrument No. 20?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam President. I did not get the question, the withdrawal of with Statutory Instrument, I am not so sure.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: This is why I
appeal to the Hon. Senators not to address, pose your question so that you get the answer that you are after. May I appeal to Hon. Sen. Chipanga to pose your question to the Hon. Minister again without preambles?
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Statutory Instrument No. 20. I thank
you.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): I want to assume that the Statutory Instrument referred to was probably addressing the issue of VAT. There was a reversal of an earlier pronouncement on VAT which was VAT on a number of basic commodities such as meat, rice etcetera. This was reversed by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. What the Ministry is doing now is to ensure that people comply. What happens is that when the announcement on the reversal was done, there is a possibility that some retailers and some shops did not actually reduce the prices but kept them as they were. This is a problem that normally happens when you pronounce something and the next day you withdraw the pronouncement. Others continue to cling to it and that happens that other people want to capitalise on such happenings but I am sure the responsible Minister is taking measures to make sure that the various parties comply with the new pronouncement.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce and has to do with pricing. If you go to a service station, there are two pumps where if you pay cash the price is less than the other pump where you use a card to swipe. Even if you go into some shops, it is cheaper to buy with cash than swiping. What is Government policy on that?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): It is true and it is not just happening at fuel pumps but it is happening all over the show where there are people capitalising on the issue of the fact that we have different approaches to payment. Hence they are saying there is a different price for swiping and another price for cash. This is not allowed and the relevant Ministry is working on the issue of enforcement. This is the Ministry of Finance together with the Monetary Authorities. They are also very much aware of this particular issue and they are working on ways of making sure that the various parties comply.
HON. SEN D.T. KHUMALO: My question is also to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. What measures are you taking to improve value addition on small grains because they are full of stones and it is not edible? How can you improve that mealie-meal to be edible so that we are interested in eating it?
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): The issue of production, whether it is maize, small grains or tobacco, production per-se is in the purview of the Ministry of Agriculture. They are supposed to ensure that there is production and that the production is up to the standards that they stipulate. We come in when you want to process that which has been produced and when you put up a factory to get your maize through a grinding meal to produce mealie-meal. That is where we come in. I have not experienced buying mealie-meal with stones but surely, even before measures are taken, the moment you produce substandard products, people will not buy it. There is a lot of competition and people can buy elsewhere. So it is incumbent upon any producer to make sure that they meet standards so that they stay in business. Any business person would like to make sure that whatever they do, their product should be accepted by the consumer. These companies also have their own associations and they also conform to certain standards. However, if things get out of hand, we will definitely intervene but I have not yet heard any reports to my Ministry in that regard. I believe that we will continue to have players coming into food processing who comply and conform to set standards.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: I would like to find out from the
Minister of Industry of Commerce. Minister, we have heard a lot on the progress in ZISCO Steel. We know there are some minerals which are coming from Buchwa and being taken to ZISCO. Has this issue ever been discussed on the business aspect of it?
*THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): When looking at ZISCO operations, we do not separate it but we take it as an integrated project. Even when we are calling for investors, we do not ask them to go and manufacture steel and then ask them to source raw materials from other places. We know that the world over, in countries where we have the necessary ore which is responsible for the manufacture of ore, they should have access to that ore and that is why we say ZISCO is an integrated mining industry. When we are talking of the production or revitalising the projects of ZISCO, we are including all the industries that are involved in that. These are things like ore which is necessary for the production of steel found in Buchwa. So we are saying when ZISCO has been resuscitated and is performing to maximum and Buchwa also has progress. When we talk of the partners who came into ZISCO such as ESSAR, they also looked for some ways where they could source for the iron ore which is used for the manufacture of iron. They went to Chikomba and Manhize so that they could go and examine the ore and see its suitability in the manufacture of iron and steel and the value which they have.
We also remember some researches which had been done in the past in these areas, they were saying the grade was not up to scratch and they could not measure the quantities and quality of that, hence, ESSAR looked at the availability of ore in Buchwa and Chikomba. So in summary, let me say when we are talking of developing and resuscitating ZISCO, we cannot talk about it in isolation neglecting the suppliers of ore and other raw materials.
When we are talking of these partners who want to come and partner with ZISCO Steel and talking with the Mines, we are talking of these subsidiary industries. Remember that in the past, ESSAR wanted to come in and they nearly pulled out of this deal during the time of the inclusive Government. We had Ministers coming from different political parties, ZANU PF and MDC-T, and hence they were giving out different instructions. Now what we are saying is we are one Government, and we have put all the responsibilities under the Ministry of Mines. We are saying ZISCO is an integrated process and we definitely look forward to the success of our programmes. We are saying Buchwa is one of the areas we are interested in.
Let me now turn back to Lancashire Steel, a company which was also sourcing for some products from ZISCO and manufacture other products such as wire and fencing material. We are now saying we want to resuscitate Lancashire Steel, independent from ZISCO Steel as much as possible because we say that we now want to manufacture steel bullets, and we want to export that abroad. After that, we will look for the investor who is going to partner with Lancashire in the manufacture of steel products.
We are also saying we need to resuscitate a company like Zimbabwe Chemicals which manufactures products for the construction of roads such as the Beitbridge to Chirundu Road. This road is now under construction. There are a lot of products which have to be sought from Zimbabwe Chemicals such as tar and other products and hence, the need for us to resuscitate this organisation so that we construct these roads because the company will be operating in full capacity. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Hon. Minister, what is
Government policy regarding the investment of foreigners in these areas that they should be limited to some certain sectors of the economy and avoid getting into areas which are reserved for the locals because we noticed that in these instances, we have foreigners like Nigerians and the Chinese who are in all sectors which I thought were reserved for indigenous Zimbabweans.
*THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): I thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira for this question. When we are talking of reserved areas for indigenous people and foreigners, it really exists, is self explanatory and very clear. We may have a problem in policing the implementation of it because we have set out some areas which we have said, these industries can only be operated by people of Zimbabwe such as small industries like the salons and food outlets. We are saying when investors come; they should start by going to ZIA, which is Zimbabwe Investment Authority. They will give that foreign investor the areas where they can operate from and also give them the direction on how they can go and be told on the way that they can open up businesses in Zimbabwe through the establishment of what we have done as the One-Stop Shop. They will also be given the regulations which are to be followed in Zimbabwe.
We agree that we have some foreigners who come into the country and instead of going to ZIA, they go to local authorities and ask for permission to do some business. The local authorities, because they want money, will allocate those people some businesses which they have to embark on because they want to benefit through taxes. This is mainly happening in the City of Harare. There are some foreigners who are operating in areas which were specifically set aside for indigenous Zimbabweans and they are working because they were given the permission by the local authorities. We are calling for the local authorities to enforce this idea of separation of business industries from those reserved for Zimbabweans and for foreigners. I thank you.
ORAL ANSWER TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
CHALLENGES POSED BY LACK OF POINT OF SALE FISCAL
MACHINES
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Industry and Commerce to inform the House what plans are in place to alleviate challenges posed by lack of point of sale fiscal machines, in view of the fact that such machines are not readily available in the country, a situation that has affected business.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam President. This question is for the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. It is to do with point of sale fiscal machines. It is for the Ministry of Finance and RBZ and not for the Ministry of Industry and Commerce.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank you. The
Hon. Senator stands advised.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE VICE
PRESIDENT MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. SIBANDA), the
Senate adjourned Twenty Eight Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until 7th March, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 14th February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Madam President, I move that Order of the Day, No. 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th February, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th February, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Madam President, I move that Order of the Day, No. 4 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Madam President. I rise to move the motion standing in my name;
That this House:
CONCERNED with difficulties to attract effective investors to
Zimbabwe for sustainable profitable investment due to Zimbabwe’s low population;
FURTHER CONCERNED that most non-governmental Organisations diligently promote birth control down wards instead of encouraging family planning for prolife that is population growth;
CURRENT world trend in population are to encourage large families so as to grow market for products;
NOW THEREFORE, this House resolves that the Zimbabwe
Government should encourage large families as follows;
- Give incentives to families to have a minimum of eight children;
- NGOs and Organisation promoting birth control should now be requested to promote family growth.
HON. SEN. SHIRI: I second.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Madam President. The issue
here I am tabling before the august House is one on population.
Zimbabwe’s population, not just population. our population in Zimbabwe Madam President, is too low to make any meaningful contribution in terms of economic development. If you look at the population of Zimbabwe and compare even with those countries that are even five times smaller than Zimbabwe, take for example England, it is five times or four times smaller than Zimbabwe. It has got a population of 76 million or more and the dynamics of development is enormous. We have only about 14 million people and even that 14 million may actually be a political figure, we could be less than that. The country is vast with many resources but empty. We have no people. We should be serious about development. The issue here is a very serious one. Let us take development alone - which investor would come to Zimbabwe to invest seriously for 14 million people? Even that 14 million, we will only have may be less than 200 000 people who are an effective consumer of any product, seriously. Even ourselves on our own, the beef and maize we cannot even consume it. We have to rely on exports. I will come on to that and show the functional weakness of that kind of a policy. If the internal dynamics are not properly developed and the internal dynamics I am talking about here are human beings, the actual people, the resources which we do not have. It is quite a serious one.
The Japanese factory, Toyota or Daihatsu cannot come to Zimbabwe and say look I want to come and build a factory to employ people. To start with, even if they set up so many factories the people may not be there with the necessary skills. They are not there, let alone the market. How many of our people can buy those cars? Why should he actually come here to invest for 14 million, instead he will go to Nigeria 150 million, Ethiopia 90 million and to Egypt where actually the people are there who can buy the product. So, that is a serious issue and it is a serious matter of concern.
Madam President, on population again, I will take you through history again the problem of having less people. Even if there was a conflict, we cannot fight a war because we will run out of people. We do not have the people, we cannot even fight it. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- This is very serious in terms of security; we just do not have the soldiers.
I will give you an example in the European wars, the second World War. The Germans were ruthlessly efficient in terms of equipment, tactics and everything but they did not have enough blood. The Russians were hopelessly inefficient but they had more blood. They kept on coming. You lose 300, tomorrow they have so many people coming from Siberia. The Germans were surprised and ended up taking conscripts who do not know the traditions of fighting. Whenever they hear a gun, because they were Hungarians, they were conscripts, they simply ran away. That is how really serious it is if you do not have your own people committed. Our own people really with the traditions of fighting here are getting old. I am sorry to say, in fact my General
here - these are people with the tradition of fighting but he is old. We need new more people to be on the ground. The ones that stayed in the Chimurenga war are all getting old and I am old too.
Let us face it, this is a reality. The population is dwindling and dwindling. I am appealing that as we go along in terms of economic development, security, consumption everything, we should actually encourage our young people, those who can and those who are able to support children and actually give them support mechanisms to make sure that they have more children. Well, we should actually encourage more people. The organisations Mr. President, that are diligently committed to be antilife in the sense that all they are doing is birth control, in other words; do not have children, have two children or none at all. They are actually very happy if you do not have any children. No this should be reversed. They should not be encouraging prolife but they should encourage life.
The amount of money they are spending Mr. President, thousands and thousands in birth control must be spent in supporting families and children in schools because they have the money. If they have the money to actually discourage life, why can they not encourage life? Hon.
Members, face it. What they do Mr. President, I will tell you.
Well, they will come to our ladies, our beautiful women and say ahh no do not have many children, there is this method of control, all of them with side effects. Once they have gone into side effects, they go and complain, look I am now having side effects and they say ahh do not worry, there is treatment for it. Now, the same people they have sold the birth control, they get money. Now, you will go back with side effects and they sell again the medicine to you. So again, they are making double money. It is hypocrisy of the worst order. [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.]
So, I am diligently and honestly arguing that the system must be reversed. Those organisations doing that kind of promotion there should be prolife. They should promote more life that what they should spent more money on. It makes sense as I have argued that look, I am looking at all sides- economic, social, security, development - really, this is brilliant. Those who offer themselves to say look, I may want to go into this programme must be supported. The Government should actually encourage everybody that we should actually have more people, otherwise one day, we will be overwhelmed that we cannot even fight a war. I thank you Mr. President. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity that you have given me. I want to second the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Musaka which is focusing on population increase. Increase in population is good because it has a positive bearing on our economy and businesses. For example, Mr. President, it is like Zim Gold, every month it sells 10 000 litres. If we were to bear more children and come to a population of 20 million, it means the litres would increase and also the money that we get in the country will increase, as well as the labour and employment is created. It is not only Zim Gold that we are talking about but we are talking about other companies that will come into this nation.
Mr. President, this will lead to positive development on the part of Government and the people. More profit means that even companies will now be resuscitated. Once companies are operational, it means people can now get employment. Mr. President, an increase in population attract investors from outside because they are assured that there are customers in Zimbabwe. My request to the Government is that what we are talking about is not that tomorrow we should wake up and say children should be born. We want the Government to take this up and consider this. We also request Senators and MPs to take the issue to their constituencies and encourage people to bear more children.
Mr. President, we will be doing this to ensure that we have more schools, hospitals, wider roads, decent accommodation and other things that will actually lead to the development of this country. I want to thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. BHOBHO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Musaka. I realise that it is very important because he mentioned a very important point that we need to bear more children. For us to have a nation, it is all about having more people. For us to have soldiers, it is because of the children that we bear. In our time, we gave birth to a number of children. If our generation comes to pass, there will be no children. The chiefs were excited because they had a list of members in their community and they knew that the Bhobho family had so many people and they would be able to articulate how the chief runs his community.
We are saying, those of child bearing age should bear more children, not one or two because we need these children to be in the Defence Forces. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. GOTO: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to support the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Sen. Murwira. This is a very important motion. We might be laughing but for us to be in this House, it is because we were born. He explained that he wants people to bear more children so that there is a population increase. If we had not been born, we could not be here. It is true people should bear more children. If people are few in a country it is not a nation.
I want to give an example without giving external forces. As we moved around Mashonaland East province during COPAC outreach programme, I always told people that we should not have few children. People would laugh at me when I was encouraging them to have more children. I explained to them the advantages of having more children. During the COPAC meetings, there was no one breast feeding. When we went to Mudzi, I saw young women who were breastfeeding and I actually said to them it is better to go and sit there and breast feed from there because the noise is disrupting us. In Hwedza, there were no young women who were breastfeeding.
I challenge people to say, if you become old, what will happen to the party. You find people bearing just two children. We know the cost of living is high but a person needs to do justice when it comes to bearing children. Hon. Sen. Musaka, we support your motion that people should bear more children; there is no problem there.
In my family, we are ten. Others died but we are all there. When we needed mealie-meal, we would make sure we get a 90kg of mealiemeal and a big pot will be used to cook for us to have something to eat. Nowadays, you find people talk of the cost of living. For us to have more schools, it will be a result of having an increase in population. My husband always says a child is a goblin because when we were in the fields with the children during school holidays, we would finish to work on one hectare in no time. If you have one child, it will take time for you to finish ploughing a hectare. If you have two children, you end up making negative comments about the person with more children.
Others used to give birth with limited spacing and that is what is supposed to happen. The truth is we should bear more children. Procreation is very important. There is nothing that can be done if there is no procreation. If the family is there over the festive season, you will enjoy yourself. If you do not have children, what do you do? If you only have two children and one dies, you are only left with one. Yes, you might say that God has made his decision but if you have more children, you are still able to enjoy. Chief, we really want to thank you for all that you say. Polygamy is not bad. It is actually very good because women do not want to give birth. So, it is better that more women come in to bear more children. Therefore, I want to support this motion.
Hon. Sen. Musaka, all those who are going to contribute to this motion will be positive. Right now, I have six children but among them, the one with the most children only has three. I always try and explain to them that if one dies what is going to happen. I always tell them that we need the family name to continue. In the end, the Goto family will be extinct, so we need to keep the family name going. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the motion by Hon. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Murwira. This is a very good motion and you have done well. I want to give a background of issues that were of concern to me on population control.
This idea of having few children was re-colonisation that happened to us without knowledge. Long back, we were born 12, 14 or 9 and that was done in all countries. If you go to Britain, Germany or any other country, there are a lot of families that give birth to many children because they know that you cannot separate the population and economic development. If you look at countries like Britain, they have population of nearly 70 million and yet it is a small country. They did that because of economic development and also to have a good army for defence. When we de-colonised Africa and won the liberation struggle, they sat down with IMF and World Bank and they came up with human rights issues and started teaching our women and children that you do not need to have many children because of the cost of living. That is a lie. Even if children are 10 or 15, they will still go to school. Let us thank Bishop Marange who refused to be colonised. He did well and he is in a polymagamous marriage and that is what we want as men – that is to have more women and thereby have more children. Your motion Hon. Musaka should be Government policy that we should bear more children for the economic development of our country. If there is an increase in population, the country will develop and if we are few, there will be no development. Let us make sure not to do that because African countries are the only ones with a limited population.
There are two million people in Botswana and 13 million people in Zimbabwe. The Europeans knew what they were doing but our eyes have been opened and I hope that the women will support the motion.
Let us support this motion. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President for
recognising me so that I add my voice to the motion that is in this House this afternoon. The motion was moved by Hon. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Murwira and it is gender balanced. I thought it was going to be raised and seconded by men only, but I realise that there is a man and a woman who have supported each other and have realised that the situation is not desirable in the country. We might laugh and make jokes of this motion and it has been mentioned before that you want people to give birth to one or two children – what are you going to do in future?
Hon. Musaka, I do not know what has made you move this motion. Even in the Bible, God says be fruitful and multiply because he knew. If we look at all those who have contributed, they have said that without a large population; you will not achieve economic growth. Look at what is happening in different countries. In Africa, there are so many wars that are happening and if we do not have a large population, where are we going to get our defence forces – that will affect us.
Having a large population will also add to the economic growth of the nation. There will be more exports and imports leading to economic growth. This is an issue that we may think is very trivial. I want to thank Hon. Komichi who said that that this issue came with the Europeans when they colonised our nations. During that time, our ancestors used to give birth to a number of children as procreation was their nature. I remember that my grandfather had about 15 children. In my family, if you see a family called Mundenda at Manica Bridge, our real surname is Mataga and Mundenda is a nickname because they just used to go. If you go to Manica Bridge, it is Mundenda throughout because my grandfather used to make sure that he had women all over and they gave birth to his children. I am sure that traditional leaders will agree with me that you had realised this issue.
To follow up on the statement given by Hon. Komichi that the Europeans are the ones who were able to see that Zimbabweans are very clever and if we encourage them to have more children, we will not be able to penetrate their country and economy. So, they then decided to come up with issues of birth control and they started making birth control pills and other contraceptive measures and advised our women to bear fewer children. People of my age, we used to go to school after selling groundnuts or even round nuts. There was no money, but we went to school and now, people talk of the costs. Now even in the fields, you cannot do much because you have few children but if you had many children like we were in our family, you would finish weeding a hectare in no time.
The chiefs have taken this up before. They talked to our parents and discouraged people from taking contraceptive pills because they knew that the Europeans were after decreasing our population. But through education, we thought that it was right for a person to have one or two children. So Hon. Musaka, the mover of the motion and the seconder, you have brought a very important motion.
If you go to the rural areas and look at the homes that are built there – they are out of this world but despite the big houses, you will realise that a person has only two children. You then say to yourself, if that person had taken that money to the Government, he would have done better than to build a mansion without the children. Let me tell you a little story. I am sure that we all witnessed what happened in Budiriro where a woman lost a husband and two children. Maybe those were the only children because we never heard of how many were left and now the mother is left on her own. What will happen is that that woman is going to die of stress. That will be continuous stress for her and she will end up being hypertensive. So, this motion is very important and, we need to really consider it. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MABHUGU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the motion that was moved by Hon. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Murwira. A large population is very important but, there are challenges that come with that. Firstly, if we compare the life that people had long back and that they used to bear more children, the children used to wear traditional clothes made out of animal skins. But now, things have changed because you need to buy proper clothes for your children. So, having more children depends on whether you can look after them or not.
Secondly, when we increase the number of children, you need to make sure that they go to school. Nowadays we see that other children, especially in the rural constituencies where we come from, children are failing to go to school and they are failing to send those children to school. So, should we have more children so that they end up just sitting at home? Right now, they are unable to get any employment and I do not think that that is a wise move. On the issue of investment, that is a difficult one; we might bear more children thinking that they will invest, but we also need to address the issues that we have in this nation. I do not think 51% will attract any investors. So we also need to address issues that will attract foreign direct investment. There are a lot of things but I will only touch on a few issues that really are pertinent to me.
On the issue of employment, there is none now. A child finishes university education but they cannot get a job. Our children are now living in the Diaspora because there are no jobs. If we were more organised, all our children would be getting jobs in Zimbabwe. So, we need to look into that and address it to ensure that development takes place.
On the issue of the fact that children can die, yes, that is God’s choice. I had an uncle who had over five children but now he is left with one. I also have an uncle who has two but those two are looking after him but the one who has 15 and has one left is not being looked after by his child. So, let us first create a conducive environment for us to bear more children. With those few words, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: I rise to commend the mover and
the seconder of this motion. In principle, I totally agree with it. Without a good population, it is difficult to draw investors. From experience, I can talk a little bit on that. The Chinese for example; I lived in China for five years, why that country has succeeded so much and over the last 40 years they have moved maybe from the bottom of the least of all countries to be the second largest economy in the whole world. They have taken advantage of their population. In China, if you move around as a tourist, the biggest percentage maybe 96%, everywhere you go is full with domestic tourists. They have also taught their people to visit places of interest in their own country raising revenue for the country. I totally agree.
In our efforts as diplomats in China to try and bring a lot of companies to Zimbabwe, the first question they would ask is what the population of Zimbabwe is. The moment you tell them we are about 14 million; they will all look around and say ah, I do not know how I can continue. What we have done as a country in China, we came together as a SADC group, so that when we spoke to these companies, we gave them a population of 250 million which is the population of SADC and that is when they got interested. I am talking about the big businesses.
However, I tend to agree with what the Hon. Senator has just been saying. We need to look at many other things if we are going to encourage our people out there to have more children. We need to see if we are developing as a country, our infrastructure, do we have enough schools to send these children to? Do we have enough hospitals to send these children to, have we done enough in terms of food security because you may end up having 15 and lose 10 of them because of malnutrition. So in terms of food security, what is it that we have done to make sure that our population increases. We need a bigger, population that is indisputable. It is true we need to have a big strong army to fight in times of war. In Europe, they are actually paying, the older population is more than the younger population and that is very risky. Like we said, we go back to the investor; the investor wants to invest in a country for 50 years so they do not look at this population which is in this House today. They look at the population 50 years from now.
Now, what we are saying in this House is that what legacy are we leaving for our children? Are we doing enough to give them confidence to say yes, we will be able to continue living the way they feel they have to live. We are churning 35 000 students every year and those children have no jobs. So, these are the issue we need to deal with and there is nothing impossible to turn around the economy of this country when you look at the natural resources we have and the human resources we have. So, that is development that is for sure and it is good to keep it in the back of the mind of every Zimbabwean vachiri kuibara haikona isu takapedza that it is important to have more children. There is nothing wrong but we need to give them an assurance that these children will survive in that environment.
The issue of support – giving incentives to families, this is happening in the countries where economies are doing well. We also hope that when we boost our economy, we will then be able to incentivise our younger children to have more children. So, this is very good and is very realistic. All the arguments which you have put upfront are very real but we need to look at our infrastructure to make sure that our children will live a decent life. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Musaka for moving this motion and Hon. Sen. Murwira for seconding the motion. However, I want to differ from them, in the sense that I do not know of any law in Zimbabwe that says you must have few children. People are making a decision not to have children. Why are they making those decisions? Decision are based on what you aspire as parents for your children. If you aspire for them to go to Oxford, there is nothing wrong with that but the schools fees at Oxford is at £34 000 per year. This is different from having your children going to University of Zimbabwe where the annual fees is US$1 400 a year.
So you do things that suit your life style.
I honestly do not believe that we should be debating this motion here because there is no – [AN HON. SENATOR: Inaudible interjections.] – you should make a choice of what you want to do. There is no law in Zimbabwe that says you shall have two children and no more, unlike China where you could not have more than one child. There it was legislated. When it is legislated, then I see that there is something wrong with it but to legislate for people who are not legislated, I do not see the point. Those that want to have none can have none. It is an open field. Nobody tells you what to do with your life. It is an open cheque; you decide as a couple in your bedroom what you want to do. You cannot have the Parliament of Zimbabwe coming to tell you what to do there, whether to have children or not have children, it is really none of our business. The problem only happens if this Government starts to legislate, I am against legislation of numbers and you must remember that there are those people that have got different reasons for not having children. People do not always have children because they cannot have them but it is because of probably medical conditions which they do not want to take risks for. So, if people decide that I have done two and if I have a third one I might die, why force them to have children. Let people have the children that they want, children that they can afford, children that are not legislated for – that is freedom. But to start telling people what to do in their bedrooms, I really think that we have gone over the top. I thank you
HON. SEN. D.T KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for
allowing me to debate. This debate is excellent and I thank those who have brought this motion into Parliament so that we can think and be together in all what we do.
In my family, my grandmother had twelve, my mother had nine, my sister had twelve, and my brother had twelve children because at that time, that was possible. You could put them in the field and they would help you in the field. We never suffered from hunger. Issues at the present moment - we were taken to school by working hard. Now, we were moved to the areas where there is no water. If you look at Nigeria or Egypt where there is dense population, there is plenty of water. Unless this country develops the availability of water, children are not going to have many children because it means before the children go to school, they have to walk 15 km to go and look for water.
Go to Lupane, I know, that is why it is impossible for them to go to school. The schools themselves are too far away. Not only that, for example myself, that is why I am saying let us be together and really be together. I have five children, during the time when they were going to school there was what was called cadetship. Children in universities had their tuition fees paid by cadetship. My children applied for the cadetship but they were not admitted into cadetship. There was selection, so my children were left out. So, why should I have 10 or 11 children when my children will not benefit from resources which are there? Let us be together, not choosing by where you come from. My children were left out because of where they come from.
I was in Lesotho, I lived with other people’s children whose friends were on cadetship. People, let us be frank and fair, equal opportunities for the children wherever they come from. – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
Let us look at the Presidential Scholarship; ask the children who have gone there. Are they equal from where they come from? This is our President and the President of those children but are they given that Presidential support? No. So, why should I have 15 children who are not going to school, who are going to be workers of these children who get opportunities to be sponsored through the Presidential Scholarship? – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Our Children are not going to be many, so that they will be workers of other children. There are no schools, they have to wake up early in the morning and go to school.
Let us think of that.
The other reason why our children cannot have many children is because of education. To me education is paramount because once a person is educated he or she knows how to look after his/her children. My five children are not going to suffer because the person who is not educated and is encouraged to have many children when the schools are too far, they are not getting the education. When a woman is pregnant, we know she is pregnant of a child who is going to be a worker of other children because schools are too far away. Let education spread equally in all the areas.
Water and health services availability are paramount as well. Are they there in the whole country? Let us be together and work together for everything. Many people’s children went outside the country in my area because they were not taken into local universities. They had to go outside the country to acquire education. So, why should I have many children who are not going to be educated and be other people’s workers? Let us correct that very thing of every child from everywhere to go to school and have services available everywhere so that these children will stay here. My children who are outside the country should be having 12 children in Zimbabwe.
Personally, I did not want 12 but I had planned for eight children. When I came here and my children were not included in the cadetship and I was supposed to foot all the tuition fees when others were not paying anything, I had to say five is enough because that is what I could afford. Ladies and gentlemen, let us have equality everywhere. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank those who moved this very important motion. This motion is important to those who realise its value. Our children are a way of growing our heritage. We are not saying these children should be born today or that schools should be built today. We are not talking about yesterday because if we continue talking about yesterday, it is now state. We are saying as a nation, in future we may not have the population that we are talking about. We are not talking about today. We are talking about sustainability.
As we sit in this House, if we ask each other, how many are you in your family, few of us are first born children? Most of you are either second or third born. All I am saying is we need to encourage our children to bear more children in order to sustain our population. In the Bible, the death of the first born children was there. Even today it is there – what you should know is that when this happens, there are a lot of misconceptions that come with this notion. So, we need to encourage our children to have many children.
Why do we ask a daughter-in-law why she has one child? What we are saying is we are not happy with her having one child. We are talking about the future, not today. Today is already past. Those who were born and wore animal skins and ate wild fruits, it is all in the past. Since the time of family planning, there was no one who has given birth to one child and clothes this child in iron clothes. They still buy clothes from local shops, that is what we are saying should happen. Our tradition encourages us to bear more children. Those of the Soko totem used to bear a lot of children, about 12 to 15 but other totems could not bear such a number of children. That is why the Bible says that when Abraham married Sarah and could not bear children, he had to get the maid. A child is a very important being.
In Muzarabani, we say that if you do not go to school, you will die. Yes, they do have degree. There are a few job opportunities but things will be well – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – In terms of food this year, there is plenty because of command agriculture. There is a lot of maize. We will bring some for consumption and we have already started consuming pumpkins. So, the children who will come will eat what we produce. Let us not liken ourselves to the white people. The white people knew that if they mislead us as black people we would keep going backwards.
However, looking back on the farm areas on those who grew up during my time, the white farmers would bear nine or 11 children. In this House, we agree that the white farmers had many children minimally spaced in terms of age. Chief Nyashanu had 35 children and when each wife gave birth, they would have many children in return. Nowadays, there is one wife and one child, where are we going if we continue encouraging our children to do that? Our children are afraid of labour pains but the Bible says that if one gives birth, they shall experience pain because we have sinned. They should give birth for up to three or four times depending with the situation, even if they fail to reach eight as stated in the motion. Sometimes we encourage our children to bear once and yet the only child may not be intelligent but the dumbest in school every year. There is not even a degree given to an unintelligent student.
Let us embrace what God gave us. This is a very good motion, it develops our country Zimbabwe. As black people, we should tell our children to give birth and multiply. As for us, we are now too old to give birth, we are like off-layers. We are talking about the new generation and that is to come. Do not tell children that giving birth is painful, that is why we are now experiencing more births through caesarean section. Those who gave birth to 15 children did so through normal birth. As black people Mr. President, we are saying let us not reduce our population because we were able to give birth to many children before. They should follow suit so that the population is maintained. Even in the Bible, giving birth continued until Jesus came.
Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. President
for this motion. This motion is very difficult to debate. I stood up to debate but I know it is difficult. To begin with, the Hon. Senator who introduced the motion is Hon. Sen. Rtd Gen. Musaka. We know that
Retired Generals do not just say things at random; they research intensively because that is what they learnt in the army. So, I know that they have a background to this motion. He told us a lot including economies and so on, but I should also support him through the Bible which says, be fruitful and multiply – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – there is no limit. I was pleased to hear this today, that chiefs should look for more and may find one Senator as we leave the Chamber today. Polygamy was applauded. We do not want to talk about off-layers when we are talking about these issues.
However, before I dwell much into this motion Mr. President, I want to be factual on this issue. The facts are; in the past we used to have more children and it was a good thing. Even today, culturally, the expansion of the family means the growth of the nation and it is factual. Chiefs are mocked because they are the ones who still have many children; most of you do not even have and some only have one. We did not have anyone to support us, but today we have found a number of supporters and it is a good thing to us. You know that chiefs are against family planning according to our tradition. If it is about giving birth, there should be no birth control and no use of artificial means to close the womb.
As someone who is learned and is a chief, I want to say that the idea that the bigger the population, the more the country is developed is a false phenomenon. We do not want to go out there and begin to talk about things that will make us a laughing stalk as senators who are not learned. It is not true to say the larger the population, the more the economic development. Here in Africa, we have countries such as Sudan and Ethiopia which have more than 100 million people in population but we have better standards of living with 14 million people than those countries. So, it is not the issue of population which determines development but, there are a number of other factors. There are also some small countries like Switzerland which has a population of about 7 million, but their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is probably five times greater than that of Zimbabwe.
When companies such as Toyota are making investments, they do not invest according to the population like in Ethiopia. For example SADC as a region, they consider the regional GDP - they look at the budget like our own budget as presented by Hon. Minister Chinamasa in terms of revenue. They then make conclusions based on that to say, there are people who are wealthy and our cars have a high probability of being bought by a considerable number of people. So, it is not only about the number of people, but the actual wealth reflected in the GDP figures – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – This should tally so that Toyota will invest. If they conclude that you have the highest population but are poor, they will not come for investment. I wanted to clarify on that.
Today, we have people who have children of up to 12 in number and out of that, only two are afforded the opportunity to go to school while the rest are reduced to herding cattle in the rural areas. People would just note that the children dropped out of school in Grade Three due to lack of funds. So, we are not encouraging people to bear children for the purpose of sending them to the grazing land to herd cattle –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – I do not think that is what we intend to do. If we do that, it will sound as if we are debating blindly without looking into the future.
However, what has been spoken before and what you will speak after me and seem to be avoiding yet it is most critical is that there are more women in this country than men. So polygamy will help to get rid of extra women – [HON. SENATORS: Aaah!] – Is that not so? Women are 52%, it is good to have it that way because some will be unable to have their own men and yet you are encouraging the birth of many children. If one does not have a husband, how is it possible to give birth? I read a newspaper today which says, last year Zimbabwean people used 110 million condoms, that is in today’s paper. Yes, I know there is an issue of diseases and also preventing pregnancy, if you want a child you have to remove the condom. As we proceed, we also need to give a fair assessment unless what you are saying Hon. Sen. Musaka on large families, all is workable but where we are losing it, is that unless you come back to the family existence in our culture. If you follow the western world or the nucleus family, this issue of a large family works when we look at the extended family in our culture. If you fail to have children then you have the extended family assisting you.
If you want us to go back to that culture, let us agree that we go back to that culture but let us not forget that we cannot be the Western world. Let us also be in our own Africa cultural world. You need to go back to the African cultural world. Once I give children and cannot afford to look after them, I will know that my uncle or my brother will look after them. In the western world, it is ‘each man for himself and
God for us all’, hence you need to look after your family as a nucleus family. In our African culture, you bear children for the extended family not for the nucleus family and it is good. Let us go back to our culture of an extended family. If we do not do that, you will find that is what has resulted in street kids because the nucleus family if they have nowhere to go, they go into the streets. In our African culture, there are no street kids because if I bear 40 children, all of them will go to school because the extended family takes a hand in the growing up of those children. In our African culture, there are no children’s homes.
I am happy that people spoke but men want as many children as possible but the women are the ones who do not want more children. They end up having their tubes tied and using different forms of contraception. Hon. Sen. Khumalo - some have not told us how many they have. I realised that in workshops, so many interesting things are said. So we want to know from those who supported the motion how many children they have. Probably, they are just encouraging others to have more children when they only have two. I hope they will be given an opportunity to inform us how many children they have. If it is Hon. Sen. Bhobho, Hon. Sen. Mawire, we want to know how many children you have. This issue of all layers kills the debate.
Recently, I read in the paper that a woman of 65 years was staying with one of the relatives who is 19 years old. They fell in love and agreed to have a child at 65 years old. That was in the paper. In this House, I looked at everyone and saw that there is no off layer because no one is 65. The motion that you are supporting, the 65 year olds are having children. In November, we want to see all of you pregnant so as to ensure that you are serious with the support that you have given to this debate. Mr. President, I thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President. I could not
stop myself from adding my voice to such a beautiful motion. Mr. President, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Musaka for this motion. This is not the first time that he has talked about this. When he was debating the status of children’s homes, he bemoaned the issue of having few children and encouraged us to have more children. He was talking about what is happening at
Chirinda. The children there struggled to get food here in Zimbabwe.
I also want to thank the contribution by Hon. Sen. Makone. There is no policy that says you should not bear children. You can bear as many children as you want. If we are to ask so many people here, most of us came from extended families. Some of us come from chieftainships. There were resources and if there were no resources, you would find that children grew up in poverty. What it means is that as a parent, you have a burden. Yes, the issue of family came through NGOs but it was realised that there is need for you as an individual to plan the children you want to have. There is no family that was encouraged to take contraception but people took contraception voluntarily to control the number of children that they could look after. If a person has five children, there are quite a lot of children because from the families that we came from, you could have 40 or 45 children. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira on what he said that now we have realised there is greediness. You now look at the children in your nucleus family. Long ago we used to look at the extended family and all children in the family would go to school.
What the ancestors would say is that when you reach a certain level of education, you had to get a job and look after the young ones in the family. Another interesting point that was mentioned was looking at the economy and status of our country. Yes, there are many of us but we realise that there is climate change. If it rains you will end up having floods at times, like the situation we have right now whereby there are floods. If the heat is too much, yield at the end of the farming season is reduced. Our fields are flooded and we cannot get much of the small grains. In families, it is a challenge to get enough food. Mr. President, we also look at the fact that the country has meager resources and it is a burden on the country. Our country is struggling with a population of 14 million. We do not have industry; we have not managed to fully develop it. As it is right now, we are struggling.
I thank the contributions that came. Let us take a leaf from the President and resuscitate our industry and social services. Most countries that have many children, their food is subsidized by their governments. In those countries, the old aged are looked after through the government social services, meaning that a nation is able to look after its people. Such incentives are not available in Zimbabwe. There may be provisions in the Constitution but we have not reached a stage whereby it is balanced and we can have such provisions. The economy is not balanced and we urge people to bear more children.
I realised on television the other time that Ethiopians were travelling on foot from Ethiopia to South Africa. What it means is that politically we have to be correct and minimise conflicts so that we become productive. If there is peace and tranquility, that will then increase the population and we can also be like China, Britain and other nations. The countries that colonized us would come and plunder resources from Africa to feed their nations abroad. We became dependant on these Western countries instead of us developing our industries and becoming self-sustainable.
Long back when I was a teacher, I would ask children what they would want to do when they grow up. They would say, I want to be a teacher, nurse or policeman, which meant that the child’s mentality was that they needed to go and work for someone else for them to be successful. That is the mentality that came through colonialism. It is that mentality that we need to get rid of and change our mindsets. We need to boost the economy on our own and make it survive. That is a very important point to drive our own economy, be self-sufficient and dependant on ourselves. Then we can say yes, we can now drive this thing. Right now, we do not have industries and our economy is deteriorating. We are saying, we need to work and progress. That is why this year we have command agriculture so that people can produce for us to have adequate food and food security.
I want to thank the mover of this motion. It is a good idea; these are very good wishes. We have seen other countries developing. If you are a billion and you pay PAYE or income tax, you have more money than the income tax that is obtained from a smaller population.
Mr. President, I cannot spend a lot of time. I was listening to what was being debated and realised that what Hon. Sen. Musaka said is true. Also, Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa gave her experience in China and said countries that are well-up and have large populations can develop. In Africa, some countries have large populations but are wallowing in poverty because of conflicts. So, we must be politically correct for us to be economically correct. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MURWIRA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th February, 2017.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT
OF SENATE
MEETING OF SENATORS
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): All Hon. Senators are requested to remain behind in the Chamber for a special senatorial meeting after the Senate has risen. Thank you.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA,
INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MATHUTHU), the Senate adjourned at Three Minutes to Four o’clock
p.m, until Wednesday, 15th February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 15th February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Mr. President, I move that Order of the
Day, No. 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. President, I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th February, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHARUMBIRA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th February, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Mr. President, I move that Order of the Day, No. 4 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD
MARRIAGES
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move the motion standing in my name that this House-
MINDFUL that the SADC Model Law is a milestone in eradicating the matrimony of the children and also in protecting those who are already in marriage;
APPRECIATIVE that the Model Law embraces all concepts on the prohibition of child marriages as adopted in Swaziland in 2016;
DESIROUS to see the end to child marriages as well as any retrogressive measures and hurdles that mitigate against the eradication of such unions.
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon Government to domesticate provisions of the Model Law as part of our statutes.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I second.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President, first and
foremost, I will start with the background of this model. According to
UNICEF, it defines child marriage “as formal marriage or a union before 18 years of age”. Early marriages are a big threat to the human rights and well-being of children. Marriage under the age of 18 is a violation of human rights, including the right to equality on grounds of sex and age, the right to marry and establish a family, the right to life, the right to education, development and the highest attainable standard of health. Child marriage denies the young an opportunity to grow and empower themselves. It challenges the basic right of these children to health, protection and development. These girls are forced into it a lot more in comparison to their male counterparts and impacts girls with more intensity.
Mr. President, in 2015, the United Nations Human Rights Council adopted a resolution calling States to take measures to address child marriage. Earlier in the same year, the African Union (AU) launched a regional campaign to eliminate child marriage in Africa. This was followed by the AU Girl Summit on ending child marriages in Africa, held in Lusaka in November 2015, where the main themes spoke to the need to protect the girl child from child marriage and to resolve the underlying causes including access to education and harmful cultural practices.
There are international human rights instruments that have been put in place in relation to the problem of early marriages. The key ones are (1) Universal Declaration of Human Rights; (2) Supplementary
Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade, and
Institutions and Practices similar to Slavery; (3) Convention on Consent to Marriage, Minimum age for marriage and registration of marriages; (4) Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) and (5) Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC).
Mr. President, according to UNICEF (2013), an estimated 14 million girls between the ages of 15 to 19 give birth each year. They are twice likely to die during pregnancy or child birth than women in their 20s. Over 700 million worldwide alive today were married as children and that, one in every three girls in the developing world is married by the age of 18. Judging from such statistics, it is clear that early marriages are unfriendly or hostile to development and predisposes young girls to health complications such as HIV/AIDS, cervical cancer, fistula and stunted growth in children born of young mothers, factors which also lead to the increase of both maternal and child mortality.
Between 2011 and 2020, more than 140 million girls around the world will become child brides, according to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA). It further says, if current levels of child marriages hold, 14, 2 million girls annually or 39 000 daily will marry too young. Furthermore, of the 140 million girls who will marry before they reach 18, 50 million will be under the age of 15. Child marriage is an appalling violation of fundamental human rights of girls and boys. Child marriage is a formal or informal union where one or both spouses are below the age of 18. According to multiple human rights agreements, marriage under the age of 18 is a violation of human rights, including the right to equality on grounds of sex and age, the right to marry and establish a family, the right to life, the right to education, development and the highest attainable standard of health. Child marriage is a product of cultures that devalue women and girls and discriminate against them.
“The discrimination, according to a UNICEF report on “Child marriage and the Law,” “often manifest itself in the form of domestic violence, marital rape, and deprivation of food, lack of access to information, education, healthcare, and general impediments to mobility.”
Zimbabwe is one of the countries in the world with high cases of child marriages. The Zimbabwe National Statistics Agency Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey of 2014 indicates that the proportion of women who were married before the age of 15 is more than that of men. In Zimbabwe, one in three women and less than 1 in 20 of men of the age group of 20-49 years were first married or in union before the age of 18, according to the survey mentioned above. According to UNFPA, 31% of the girls are married before the age of 18 in Zimbabwe, and that 39% of the women in the rural areas aged 20-49 years currently in marriage or union were married before the age of 18, compared to 21% in urban areas.
Mr. President, in terms of provinces, the Zimbabwe Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey for 2014 indicated that Mashonaland Central tops on the list of provinces with a high number of cases of child marriages with 50%; followed by Mashonaland West with 42%;
Masvingo 39%; Mashonaland East 36%; Midlands 31%; Manicaland 30%; Matabeleland North 27%; Harare 19%; and Matabeleland South 18%.
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING CHILD
MARRIAGE
- The SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and protecting children already in marriage should be used by Southern African states, Zimbabwe included, to shape their own legislation and policies in a manner adequate to address child marriages.
- In its preamble, the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and protecting children already in marriage, calls upon member states of the SADC to adopt measures to eradicate child marriages, prevent its occurrence and protect children already in marriage or affected by child marriages.
- Further to that, the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage, its part contains the main mandate of the law; it outlaws all forms of child marriage or unions. In complimenting the third part, parts four and five set out standards to prevent (including education for girls and vocational training, etc) and to mitigate the effects of child marriage (assistance to child victim of child marriage and other), respectively. In part, six of the draft laws, states are encouraged to keep track of information and data concerning child marriage in their own territories.
WAY FORWARD FOR ZIMBABWE
- Zimbabwe is a State party to international instruments whose aim, among others, is to protect the girl child, including protecting them from child marriages. These legal frameworks, which include: (i) Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW); (ii) Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), (iii) SADC Protocol on
Gender and Development, and the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage.
Mr. President, the provisions of the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage should be incorporated and domesticated into gender laws of the country. After all, Zimbabwe has prioritized children’s rights. It adopted the Convention on the Rights of the Child and various laws have been passed in recent years, which protect children.
Mr. President, children’s rights are now set out in Section 19 of the Constitution. Section 19(1) clearly sets out that the State must adopt policies and measures to ensure that in matters relating to children, the best interests of the children concerned are paramount. In Section 19(2), the State has undertaken to ensure that children enjoy family or parental care, or appropriate care when removed from the family environment, have shelter and basic nutrition, health care and social services, are protected from maltreatment, neglect or any form of abuse and have access to appropriate education and training.
Mr. President, more importantly, the Constitution of Zimbabwe states that a child is a boy or a girl under the age of 18, which therefore means that anyone under the age of 18 cannot marry or be married.
Further to that, Section 78 of the Constitution stipulates that, “Every person who has attained the age of 18 has the right to found a family.”
Parliament of Zimbabwe, during alignment of laws should consider the following:
- The need for the awareness of the SADC Model Law on
Eradicating Child Marriage and development partners. UNDP, UNFPA and Plan International should play critical roles in this regard, including the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and
Community Development;
- Existing pieces of laws (such as the Children’s Act) should be fully enforced to protect child rights and the girl child from child marriages, in compliance with the SADC Model Law on
Eradicating Child Marriage;
- Also, the ZRP should fully investigate all cases of child sexual abuse and child marriages to bring to book perpetrators of child marriages and all those who facilitate their occurrence; iv.Thus, the police and other key players should be exposed to the provisions of the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriages. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to second such a good motion raised by Hon. Sen. Mohadi. All of us in this august House are mature and know what a child is. So, if there is a call for the barring of child marriages, we really appreciate what that means. The problem is that all of us are not well up to be able to ensure that the child becomes active in the sense of attending school until they reach the age of 18, especially the girl child.
Mr. President, if a child completes Grade 7 at the age of 14 - as parents, we are all aware that for her to spend the next five years without actively occupying her mind, in the end she would look for somewhere to go. In my view, Mashonaland Central has the highest number of child marriages. The answer lies in the fact that the majority of such children are in the farms and mining communities. Most of the parents in the mines and farms are not well-educated. In as far as they are concerned, the fact that their child is not educated is not an issue. It also takes us back to the reason why we should not have more children. However, I am not going to discuss about it Mr. President. Once the parents have failed to send their children to school because they cannot afford, in the end the child will be involved in unacceptable activities.
In the same farms, I personally experienced this last year in the area where I am farming. One of my workers’ daughters had gone to school as far as Grade 7. The father had made preparations and bought uniforms for her to go to Form One. Come January, the girl said she was no longer going to school. She had lost interest in school; she was 14 to 15 years. My employee approached me and informed me that he had bought uniforms and put funding in place for the child to continue with her education. The daughter said she no longer wanted to go to school. Barely six months lapse, she was married.
These are some of the problems we are facing because of the farm lifestyle. There is no culture of going to school to attain higher education. In fact, once a child has stopped going to school, the boy goes to herd cattle or goats while girl child goes to the fields. You may not accept that as a farm owner but eventually the parents will come and plead with you. So, how best then can we eradicate this issue? We know that SADC has put such a law and Zimbabwe is in the forefront driving these issues of the rights of the girl child and women but we still have pockets with 32%, 52% and 49% of girls that are getting married when they are below the age of majority.
My considered view Mr. President is that for as long as we do not go back to the era of free education - which may not be attainable because of the economic climate - when it was mandatory that parents should send their children until they reach 17 years when they will have attained “O” level and we are going to have this problem of children dropping out of school because parents will have failed to pay school fees for form 1. What then happens is that once they fail to go to school in the farming communities, they end up working and it is an eventuality that they become pregnant and they get married.
Why then do we have this high frequency of child marriages in rural areas as opposed to urban areas? This is due to the fact that the father in the urban centre is employed and they can send their children to Form 4 because they have the finances to do so. In the urban areas, there is also a mentality that once my daughter is educated they become a clerk. The daughter knows that if they are educated they become a nurse or another profession which is recognised. That culture is absent in the communal lands. For us to eradicate this, we need the assistance of the powers-that-be that there be a mandatory law that children go to school until they attain “O” level. Once a child attains ordinary “O” level their world view is different from the one of a Grade 7 or Grade 5 person.
They have better visions.
A long time ago when I was still in school, we used to have debates and we would debate on whether it would be good to work in an urban centre or to work in farms. There will be those in support for working in farms and those against. In an urban area you are given a better and a cleaner environment than would be the case with a farm labourer in the farms. This encouraged us to go to school and became educated so that we could become clerks. If we do not send our children to school we are not going to be developed.
I wish we were one of those countries where the Government would support through the Department of Social Welfare, children that one cannot look after. If we have a social welfare support for food and rentals like other countries, then the child could be in a position to stay at home even if they fail to go to school until they attain “O” level. It is mandatory that children go to school until they become 16 years of age.
On average the child will have attained “O” level. Alas, Zimbabwe cannot afford that. Because we are not able to do that - I see that if there are no interventions into the issue of the education system, we are going to go round in circles. We may come up with good legislation where we have the police to ensure that people do not break the law by getting married before a certain age. Be that as it may, the children also run away. The parents will become evasive about such information of their children that become married below the age of 18 because the parent will then say it is one mouth less to feed.
Secondly, if the child would be married by a border jumper, any income then comes home. So the problem will always be there. It is my request that this august Senate should come up with views on how best we can keep the majority of our children in school until they reach the age of 18 years. At 18 years those that will have gone to school earlier will be in their first year at university or doing advanced level. It is detrimental for a child to get married at 16 like in the farms because my example that I have cited earlier on is that she could marry at 14 years and that child becomes a mother and she will not be able to run any household at that age. The boy could be impregnating other girls but the boy child may not be an issue, what is an issue is the girl child because once the girl child becomes pregnant she suffers because she needs to support her child.
We should come up with measures to ensure that our children remain in school. If we do not come up with such a solution, this perennial problem will continue. Whether there are laws or not, I do not believe that this will help us unless we come up with a way to eradicate this and to ensure that our children remain in school. Thank you for the opportunity Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: I rise to commend the mover of
this motion Hon. Sen. Mohadi and the seconder Hon. Sen. Chipanga. First of all, we really have to applaud the SADC Parliamentary Forum which is a regional inter-parliamentary body of all the member states of SADC for coming up with this model law which is a first of its kind in the whole world. It was applauded by people who attended the Plenary Session in Swaziland where it was launched. People came from all over the world including America, Europe, Asia and Africa. We really applaud SADC Parliamentary Forum for coming up with that model law.
What they focused on is that they wanted to exploit the fact that it is us parliamentarians who are uniquely positioned to make sure that we put the legislative framework to stop all these evil things happening to our children. It is truly saddening that every year 15 million girls below the age of 15 are being married off. It is a very serious problem and it ties in with what Hon. Sen. Chipanga had just been saying that we need to educate our children. If these girls are educated, they also bring up better children who will not be married off at a tender age.
It is us as parliamentarians who are key role players. We should lead the development of the legislative framework. The relevant legislation and policies are made by us. We can set the political agenda because we are opinion leaders as parliamentarians. With all these statistics from the provinces we can actually set the political agenda to end child marriage. We are the people who pass the Budget and let us keep that in mind that as we pass the budgets, more money is provided to make sure that the girl child is actually being catered for.
We are also there to monitor implementation. It is just not a matter of coming up with legislation and policies but to monitor whether it is being done. We need to ensure that there is accountability. If there is a Ministry which deals with children, we need to monitor if the policies which have been put in place are implemented. As Members of
Parliament this is our job and this is why SADC PF came up with this. They are calling the entire member Parliaments to come up with laws which will totally eradicate this evil thing which is happening.
In Zimbabwe we have done quite a lot. A lot of legislative framework has been put in place but we are being informed by statistics that it is not enough. This is something that we need to go back to the drawing board and say all the policies, laws and legislations which have been put, why are they not helping these young girls? Why are parents not aware of the evils of giving away a little child who is 15 years old? We have 15 year old grandchildren in our homes and they are vulnerable to abuse. So, when a parent actually volunteers to give away a little child of 15 years of age and say, okay go and that child loses out completely her parents when she needs guidance and advice from somebody who loves her dearly; it becomes a problem.
So, this is something which we need to seriously look at. The issues in our Constitution; Section 19 clearly states that, ‘the State must adopt policies and measures to ensure that , in matters relating to children, the best interest of the children are paramount’. Us as parliamentarians, we are there to uphold the Constitution. Is this happening and if it is not, what should we do? It is something which we should think seriously about.
We would also like to see issues of alignment like where it says in the Constitution, a child can only be married at 18. There is a statutory law which still talks of 16. So if you say at 16 a child can have sex, and then you say a child can be married at 18, what are we saying? The need for alignment cannot be over emphasised and that is also to be done by us as Members of Parliament.
Mr. President, the model law sets a consistent standard for the SADC region. The SADC realises that this problem of early child marriages is just not in Zimbabwe but it is all over, more so even in the SADC countries. We are saying in Zimbabwe, those two kids – there was a landmark ruling on January 21st where two kids were actually granted by the Constitutional Court – those children were given away at a very tender age. We should build it up from there and continue to make sure that our laws and legislations clearly eradicate child marriages. I want to thank the movers of this very critical motion which calls on all of us to think what we can do to eradicate early child marriages. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I stand to lend support to the motion. I will deal with a number of issues - the statistics and the rationale have been provided. The next thing that I would want to examine is the imperative for the relevant law for which we have a model. It should not be a huge task either for the legislative Houses, nor for Government to put in place the relevant law. The advantage of the model law is that it makes our task much easier than generating the law from nowhere. So, I stand to urge the Minister and say, you have the prototype, so let us move on and let us desist from some mentality that I have heard where it is said, it is better now than never. I think it should say it is better because it is forever.
The second point that I want to make is as a nation, we pride ourselves sometimes with small things like a high literacy rate which is basic. Yes, we are able to read and write, is that what the modern world calls for and is that what development calls for? If we follow the statistics, either in SMEs or generally in world trends, the girl child is the future of investment. They are the more productive sector as they develop into women. So, it is absolutely important that all laws guide this critical mass towards the achievement of economic development. Therefore, I am saying, let us graduate from the basics of speaking about literacy rate but let us move towards an acceptable universal education level which is a minimum of ‘O’ levels and that takes you close to an age during which you could be married.
I want to emphasise a point made by another Senator here that, in certain sectors of our community, people get married may be because there is no alternative. I do a bit of farming and I was talking to this young girl that I had employed. She told me that she had done Form 2 and I said to her, you will work here for two months and get enough money for you to be able to proceed to at least do Form 3 and Form 4. She said to me, uyo ari kusakura padhuze neni ane ‘A’ level. What that means is, we have taken hope out of our children. They have nothing to look forward to if the ‘A’ level person is employed kusakura, so, I have no basis to motivate this little girl to get to ‘A’ level.
I am saying; let us give our young generation hope as a nation. Let us create a new imperative where when these people are growing up, like we used to have; I remember my grandmother wanted me to be a teacher but I wanted to be an engineer and that gave me hope. All I did was focus towards that and unless that hope is created, the legislation will be there, the poverty will be there and I am going to deal with the poverty but the cause will not be realisable.
The last thing that I would like to raise Mr. President is that, I would like to see this nation telling itself that instead of perennially crying about incapacity as a nation, we have the capacity, and all that we are doing is that, we are spending more time mourning, unable to educate our children and unable to offer social service to those who do not have because we do not extend our imagination. We do not extend our goals because there is enough in this country at least for the foreseeable future to make sure that we are a developing nation.
Therefore Mr. President, I suggest that as Zimbabweans, we put our heads together and set up stringent goals that challenge us to turn this economy around. We need to create a social system that is going to support our children and at the same time, eliminate the undesirable force for young girls to get married at an early age where they will be abandoning school and thereby stunting their social and physical development. Mr. President with those words, I urge that we start with the legislation and I also urge that we mobilise both our efforts and our resources to create a better future for our children and leave a legacy. We are running the risk of being a generation of no positive legacy until we take certain steps. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: I thank you Mr. President. I rise to support the motion brought into this House by Hon. Sen. Mohadi seconded by Hon. Sen. Chipanga. The motion deals with the issue of early child marriages. We have had several debates over this issue; I want to believe it is the third time that we have talked about the issue of the girl child. There has been no solution. We now say the world over, we have this problem but each and everyone looks upon their individual country for solutions. As a parent and a resident of this country or a citizen of this country, when I look at that issue, it appears as those that are tasked with such duties are not doing their job well.
There is the issue of education, famine or hunger. I recall reading a certain book one day, there was a discussion that started in 1853 and ended in 1953. It was on education but it meant that education was not being able to speak English or being able to work our mathematical problems but it was said that education simply meant that a child or an adult would understand the differences between the good and the bad.
As we used to grow up, we were told that we should never do it because it has repercussions. As such, we never tried to do those things because we were afraid of the consequences.
Mr. President, there are rights that are being given to children.
People are advocating for children’s rights and advocate that children should be informed about sexual reproduction and what sexuality is all about as well as the use of contraceptives such as condoms. What is the meaning of this in terms of church values? You have armed them, they now have the teeth and they want to bite. There are children that we are seeing doing Advanced level but never complete it. Day in, day out, they are told of the dangers of HIV/AIDS and that if you use the condoms as a contraceptive they will not fall pregnant but how then are they falling pregnant at Ordinary level or Advanced level? What is education assisting in that regard Mr. President?
The parent’s background is important in shaping what type of a person a child becomes, coupled with educational environment. Recently, a police commissioner said that we should be forgiven because the recruits only come to the police training centre for six months and that they become thieves since they grew up with their parents. Charity begins at home.
Mr. President, we are too much of a talk shop, we do not walk the talk. Those that have money and want children to have their rights exercised, should work hand in glove with the Ministry of Social Welfare. When a girl who is at school falls pregnant, they should look at the root cause. A child leaves home with cakes, mineral water and a soft drink (Mazoe) but they leave school because they have fallen pregnant. Is it because of poverty for them to have fallen pregnant? It is because of their culture. We should go back to where we started. If we were to go back there, maybe things will turn out to be better.
I recall when we had our inheritance from these whites; when the whites were still in, they would leave school and once they go to the family home, the gate is locked. They would only see their friends at school. Parents should supervise their children so that they do not have any night activities. However, currently a question was posed in this august House on whether we could call the church leaders so that we could talk to them but there was no response. The Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of Social Welfare, denied responsibility. He said some of these things are emanating from the church. I recall one year when I was in Magunje where I come from, all Government leaders were there, there was a councillor who was a member of the Apostolic Faith Sect who said in their church, if a girl child is eight years old and does not complain during sexual intercourse, then she is good and fine. It means she can become a wife. It ended there because no clarity was then sought. It is a sad issue indeed; we must follow the laws of this country that if a child is below the age of 18 years, they should not be married.
Barely, a long period had elapsed when we talked about what should happen to such people that promote child marriages. We said we could even come up with those that are going to be held as an example. It was like those years when the freedom fighters came to Mbare and anyone who was involved in pick pocketing, when they were court, a bus would be used to run over that hand. The issue of pick-pocketing at Mbare decreased because this acted as a deterrent menace.
Deterrent measures have been discussed many times at women’s fora that the men should have their manhood castrated and it will be viewed by everyone so that people can be deterred from that. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add a few words on such a good motion that has been raised by Senator Mohadi seconded by Senator Chipanga. It is an important motion for us as a country. Educated as we are, we find ourselves with this problem of early child marriages. We used to swim in the same pool with boys but no mischief took place because we respected our culture. We used to live with aunts and we would be guided on how to live. We would be told about the pros and cons of certain behaviours. The modern life we now live is detrimental to our culture. We no longer have that social unity we used to enjoy. The family unity has crumbled. We no longer have extended families pulling up together and no family gatherings are held to guide the family on how best to live.
I am grateful that as a country, we have such laws and yet this has become a world problem, which also affects Zimbabwe. Mashonaland Central is at 50%, I am happy that my chiefs are hearing it for themselves, Hon. Chief Chisunga and Hon. Chief Nembire. We have the highest figure of child marriages but what are we saying about it? Let me hasten to say that in this august House, we should not lose heart because we have debated this motion on several occasions. We should be talking about it until we find a solution.
If we had money, we could urge our Thematic Committee on
Gender to go and conduct outreach in these areas where there are high figures of 50% plus. The Committee which is chaired by Hon. Senator
Makore, in their report touched on such aspects of early child marriages. The said Committee should be funded to go into such areas to find out if this 52% is mainly coming from the mines and farms. It cannot only be these two sectors. What also causes that is the family unity, where there is no respect between the father and mother. A child might decide to leave the homestead because you will always be at loggerheads infront of children.
Some take their positions at workplaces to look down upon their spouses, that is wrong. Children will not learn anything good out of that. When they are in schools, they discuss and find that other families do not live like that, it pains them. Others have married in terms of the Marriage Act, Chapter 511 but they do not love their husbands. How come you now find defects on your husband after you have been married for so long? Let us change our attitudes towards our families. If parents do not behave well, children will run away from us; they will accuse us for our behaviour.
When you try to remonstrate them, they will openly tell you that they are also acting likewise we have taken after. So, how then do you stop them from doing this? I reiterate that the Thematic Committee be given funds so that it can come up with some solutions. I urge all of us as parents, to remember that our children belong to us not to the teachers.
I once gave an example of a woman called Mamoyo who was known for being cheeky to her husband and not to everyone else. When it was time for tea, the community would know it because the husband wore an apron labeled tanganda. During lunch time, the man wore an apron written royco usavi mix. This is not good at all. It does not give us a good standing in society.
We are educated but I do not know where our problem is, educated as we are. Let us go back to the basics and find out why we are failing to come up with a solution to this problem. Let us correct such a problem. We should not blame the teacher for the behaviour of our children; those children belong to us not the teacher. Children learn from their parents. Let us have characters, as parents that are beyond reproach. Chiefs will have fewer problems to deal with and we will have families which are intact, well mannered and admirable. Thank you once again Senator Mohadi and Senator Chipanga for raising this important motion but we have not yet come up with a solution. Let us take a while longer to come up with a solution that works, so that as Zimbabwe we cannot be ashamed about this.
If funds permit, this same Thematic Committee should go outside the country and see how other countries are progressing on the issue of early child marriages. Do they have the same problems that we have as Zimbabwe? Such exchange visits will help us to eradicate this particular problem because we would have learnt from other countries. Thank you Mr. President.
+HON. SEN. JUBA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank those who brought this motion to the House. I will say something different from what has been said. Have you seen how these young children are going after elderly men? They are going out of their way to look for men. Our children are now wild, they do not understand at all. They have lost all respect. I do not know how we can end this. Our children no longer go after people of their age because they say if they go after the young ones, they will leave them for South Africa.
If you look at these children – there is a lady in Hwange who asked her child why she was doing that. She answered by saying, what were you doing when I was doing this. Honestly, this time it is the girls who are going after boys, this is not a secret. Again, a lot of policemen are young, some of them have been suspended from work because of these girls. These young girls now go after men. Even if the mother is good and well behaved, you will be surprised that the child is going after boys. You can ask the mother or even the teacher. If you go to the teacher and ask how the child is performing at school, the child will tell you that, I will go and report you to the police because you are abusing me. The child will report you to the police, but we cannot do that because you cannot assault your child. What used to happen when we were still at school is that, teachers used to beat us and we would not report that at home.
However, today, it is us the mothers who are going to complain to the teachers asking them, why did you assault my child? What do you expect the teacher to do? I am worried about mothers, we are all women and giving birth is the same. There is no one with four legs. I am blaming our daughters, they are going after the boys and the boy ends up asking the girl to stay with him. However, as soon as the girl bears children, the boy will no longer be interested in her again. I am now an old woman and it is very painful if your daughter bears a child with a Khumalo, brings the child back to you and another daughter brings back four whilst the other one brings six; no, what is happening? It is tough outside there, even the chiefs know that these children are very naughty and you cannot be able to explain it. The children have no respect whatsoever but they are born of well-respected parents. Even if you report them to the chief, the chief will not be able to do anything.
Honestly, I do not know what we can do. When we were growing up, our parents were very proud of their daughters and people would refer others to say, you should look at so and so’s daughter, but now all of them, be it a Ncube or Khumalo, they are doing all sorts of bad things. As parents and Hon. Members, let us go and talk to our children because our children are so naughty and disrespectful. It is not only happening in Matebeleland North, it is worse there because there is a mine. I asked one of the children, young as you are, why are you going to the drinking bar, are you sure you will survive these diseases? The child replied; “do you not also know that you are going to die?” I said,
yes I am old and I will die and the child replied, “yes, I will also die.”
I am wondering where this world is leading to. When I had my last born child who is now aged 23, I had a problem because the doctor left some cotton wool inside me. If I was young, say 15 years of age at that time, do you think I would have survived? I would not have survived because a child’s body is not as strong as that of an adult. This is what we say in Ndebele, your body has to be strong, but our children are very young and their bodies are still tender. With these children, you cannot teach them anything because they never listen. I thank you Mr.
President.
+HON. SEN. BHEBE: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add a few words. Firstly, I would like to thank Hon.
Sen. Mohadi for bringing this motion and the seconder Hon. Sen.
Chipanga. I was driven by the motion to say something on the issues raised, especially on the issue of child marriage or children who give birth at a young age. I have heard some Hon. Members speaking about things they are unhappy about, especially that we should assist each other as Zimbabweans. A law should be enacted, if it is possible.
Although people will not adhere to it, it is better to have an Act of Parliament that stipulates when one can start bearing children.
I remember when we were young, people used to go out in the bush where there were rivers and bath. Boys and girls would bath and girls who would have reached puberty bathed at the same place and there was no problem. There was nothing wrong. If one failed to come out of the river, boys would carry you out on their backs. However, today you cannot bath in the presence of a five year old child because they now know the nakedness of a person. I do not know what they are eating that makes them to do that. I do not know where we are going wrong as already said by one Hon. Member.
I think this is a problem in the whole of Africa, that children are having a very difficult time. Maybe it is a result of not going to school or the population is increasing and no one listens to anyone. I know that a teacher is given a certain number of pupils in a class whom he/she will be able to control. However, we are too many and maybe it is difficult to control us. I know there are certain churches where girls are examined for purity. Girls did not want to break the church regulations because they knew that every month of August, they would be examined. There are human rights activists who started complaining that the children were being abused and that it was not a good thing to examine the children and it created some problems. This paves way for children to have too much freedom and also when we come to what they wear, you will find that what they are wearing now, the top will be too short and the trousers down there and this part of the body will be exposed. At Mbare, I remember one time a girl was stripped because they said that she was already walking naked. I know that some our children are big and men think that maybe she is grown up because of her body. For us who have children from what Hon. Chimbudzi said; we must teach our children, charity begins at home.
So let us start teaching them at home because we live with these children on a daily basis. Let us try and pick up the Bible and start talking about the Bible, telling them that God says children should listen to their parents. You should tell the children, ‘I do not want you to dress like this, but I want you to dress like that.’ If I teach my children that and my neighbour teaches her own children to do that, I think that will be better.
For those who attend or who go to the hospital, for some Hon. Members, if you go the hospital, it is a sorry sight. Some of the children like grade 7 pupils are impregnated by the teachers because the child attracts the teacher. She goes out of her way to make sure that the teacher notices her. I do not know what SADC can really do to stop or prevent these children from getting into early marriages. They must grow up first. For me when I was growing up, I was very thin and I was so scared of getting married, but I know that some are not afraid. Where I came from in Kezi, boys go after these young girls at times and some of them are very young , some are impregnated and because some of these children are being looked after by their grannies, the grannies end up chasing them away to say go and stay with your men. I do not really what can be done by the Government to try and protect the girl child.
I know the boy child is also affected. As it is now, us as parents we are afraid when our children go to school. When you child finishes
‘O’ level, you really thank God that your child has completed her ‘O’ levels. So we thank the Lord for that, but we must try as Governments to try and enact laws that prevent children from bad habits. If these children are no longer going to school, then something must be done for them to start working or using their own hands- maybe like carpentry and other things. I think it is much better and keeps them busy. Instead of the child going to work for Mrs. Bhebhe and so, on, someone will notice the child the child will get impregnated. However, but if there are other places where they can be kept doing something, keeping them busy, it really prevents them from these marriages. I also wanted to add my few words, with those words I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I had not
decided to speak on this motion but I have realised that this is an important issue. When I perused the issue, I would first and foremost want to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Sen. Mohadi and her seconder Hon. Sen. Chipanga.
Thank you for raising such a motion. I have heard those that have spoken on this motion saying that I should speak very strongly about this motion because we have spoken about it several times and there is no solution at the end of the line. I believe that the more we speak about it, the more we come out with the solution. Some have spoken and have given an example, of what happened in the past, and others about the future. My analysis of these issues is that we lost our track when we lost our traditional culture and adopted foreign cultures. Our grandmothers and our mothers before us during the time when they grew up, the girl child was looked down upon. By the time they got to do standard 3, the girl child would be assumed to be well educated and they would not proceed further. During our time we ended in grade 7 as girl children.
Upon attainment of our independence in 1980, our Government did well when they promoted the women and granted them equal rights. There were equal employment opportunities and other things attendant to them. Education is one such area, but it would appear that problems then come up when there was the equality of the girl child, our country lost track. We failed to appreciate that the equality for the woman meant that in education and work, men and women are equals. We had problems-fights started to emanate in the communal homes, it was aching to us during the time when we grew up. Sen. Chimbudzi, did indicate to us that our discussion in the home and the way we conduct ourselves as spouses will lead to the behaviour that is detrimental to our children’s own lives.
Gone are the days when you would remonstrate with another person’s child. The parent would also come and vilify you for having played your motherly role. They may even want to tear off their clothes, protesting as to why you were remonstrating with the child and the child having moved around with a man and the manner in which the child danced. The child would listen to the confrontation between the two elders. Gone are the days when we used to be remonstrated by any elder of the family if we misbehaved. Once you were corrected, you would appreciate why you were being chastisised, because you would have erred. We should go back to our culture, these things have their pros and cons. Everything has its own side effects, I did not go there but I learnt that those that are of the Maliwian culture, will take their daughters to the river and discuss issues concerned with womanhood. As the Shonas, I am no longer remembering, but it is the culture that we lost which has led us to go astray, hence our moaning today.
There will be the reed I do not know what that reed was for, maybe it was for virginity testing because children, mainly the girls would be very good in looking after themselves, being afraid that once they fall foul of those rules, they will be stigmatized. I did not hear anything being made reference to the boys but there was an age where they were allowed to marry. We should not look at the girl child only. I was also of the belief that it is now better. Central Government has come up with education and they have granted us equal rights. They have said that the girl child should be granted the opportunity to uplift themselves. It is a good thing, the girl child is now going to school.
We should not have this problem of early child marriage because we are now educated but again, we see that we have problems from these enlightened people who should understand the dangers of child marriages. Since they will not be going to school, the old man would not want you to go to work. Maybe he could have several children and want to multiply like the sand. It will be a waste for the education that you have received. We should not be having a problem of early marriages because of our levels of sophistication, which have gone high.
We even have lessons for culture. Teachers should be encouraged to teach such subjects. The traditional leaders in their areas of jurisdiction should hold awareness campaigns with gender committees. We once had a problem with them. The women ran around with the programme of women’s rights but when they were busy pursuing that agenda, they lost out on culture and morals because men and women have problems with human rights. There was a misinterpretation. The woman could tell her husband that you have come late, your meal is over there and I am already in bed. They do not wake up. Our mothers could spend the night awake, waiting to receive the father and give him his evening meal. As women we tend to do things the wrong way.
We have given rights to our children and we now have repercussions coming out of these rights. We have that jealous in teaching our brothers’ children. The old women, the Mawires are now
girls; let us go back to our culture. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President. I thank the mover of such a good motion, Hon. Sen. Mohadi seconded by
Hon. Sen. Chipanga. I am happy but I have not yet read the model law. I did not understand what happens to someone after the age of 18. If there is that absence, maybe it is a good law and we can use it.
Everyone is talking about the global village, which is self-explanatory be it Mongolians, Liberians, Zimbabweans and the world over are assumed to live in a manner that is similar or there should be uniformity in terms of our behaviour, sophistication and everything. If you are not in sync with the global village, it means that you will have been left behind. So, if we look at the global village, it does not have a culture. It is not very good. It has its own cons rather than pros.
Due to the global village, it is where the school of thought is there that the children can get married at a young age. Physically, they will not be mature enough to become fathers and mothers. We are educated as a country but there are two types of education. You could have attained academic excellence and there is the school of life where you learn to reason. There is that education where you are able to read and write. Literacy merely means that you are able to read and write. There are those that are well-educated but cannot utilise the good education that they have acquired to the benefit of our community. Are we able to extract from the global community the good things that come with globalization and leave those that are detrimental to our own culture?
We should not be taking hook, line and sinker everything that is owned by the global village.
Our level of education should be able to ensure that we go back to the basics and incorporate good manners and morals from our culture. There are organisations for the rights of the children. A child has rights and that right should not be taken away. The child is taught about those rights but it is unfortunate that those that teach the children about their rights are elderly people. So, they are urging children to rebel against their teachers and parents. If your father tells you not to go to the video clubs as what other young men will be doing in the area, you are being oppressed. Such rights, when interpreted in that form have made our culture redundant. We no longer have children respecting their parents in terms of our culture.
This so assumed high level of literacy should put us in better stead, that we be able to take out the good from the bad. At political level, we should be able to come up with the good and the bad things that should be done. What may be good today may not necessarily be good tomorrow. We should have the vision to see what is good for us. If a meal of sadza has not been consumed the previous day, in the morning it turns out to be worse off and it may not be suitable for consumption. We should throw it away. The same line of thinking should be put into
use.
Coming to technology, the smart phones also have problems. People can discuss on such forums. The majority of youths in the urban areas have such devices and can arrange to meet somewhere. Some that are sophisticated can use the WhatsApp forum and a lot of things can be arranged. E-mails and internet can also be used. They can search on Google and they can even see pornography. That is meant to make children rebel. You could even see that the video clubs are seeing pornographic materials because there are such people that specialize in coming up with the material. The child will not go to school from 0700 to 1200 hours, they will be at the vigil club and the parent might assume that the child is in school whilst they are not at Mhofu Primary School, where they were learning. Such deviant behaviour is not good because a child will spend their time at the movies instead of at school. Such movies can be seen on televisions and at cinema houses and these movies have changed the children’s mentality. Even parents in this Parliament will leave this place around 1900 hours. I recall one day when the National Assembly finished at 2100 hours and the children will have no father or mother to look after them. The children will be free to do as they please. That may be detrimental to our children. This is the type of life that we are living today and it is detrimental to our way of living. We should come up with solutions to such a problem. We may want to go the world over to look for solutions but I observed that even in the SADC region, there are problems in some of these countries.
A lot of my friends are teaching in South Africa. A friend of mine who was teaching Physics – I was teaching but not science subjects – but we were good friends. When he came back to process his papers, he was laughing and saying that 10 girls in his classroom were pregnant. He went to see the principal on why the girls were pregnant, he was told to mind his business and just teach them because it is South Africa. What causes that is that the child gets money when they give birth and there are certain social security measures that are put in place where they benefit. So, it is a money making venture for the children.
Around 2004 there was a celebrity called Sarah Paylin in United States of America who wanted to become President. She had a 17 year old daughter who also had her own daughter. It is all over and it is not akin to Zimbabwe. There is now less control of the children. Some people support it because they say it is children’s rights and human rights but it shows that there is now chaos in the way of living of a country. This needs to be remedied so that life can go on very well. I would want to believe that we should take this model law and look at it more closely and come up with those things that are good for Zimbabwe and leave out those that are detrimental to our country and make our own additions. That way we will be able to progress. I thank you Mr.
President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th February, 2017.
On the motion of SENATOR MASUKU seconded by SENATOR
MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Fifteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 16th February, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President, my question is directed to the Minister of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment. What is Government policy on Community Share Ownership Trusts (CSOTs) chaired by the chiefs in terms of the law? What does the policy say about companies that qualify and do not remit anything to these Community Share Ownership Trusts?
*THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, INDIGENISATION AND
ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT (HON. ZHUWAO): Thank you
Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira for the question. This will give me an opportunity to explain Government policy regarding indigenisation and what His Excellency the President, Cde R. G. Mugabe explained in a policy statement in terms of the clarifications on the indigenization policy for businesses that are into natural resources sector. President Mugabe explained that natural resources are finite resources which after extraction, cannot be replaced. As a result of that, the local community should benefit from the extraction of such natural resources.
Government policy is that the line Ministers should assist the Community Share Ownership Trusts to ensure that qualifying businesses fulfill their obligation as regards the promises that they would have made. What remains to be done is to legislatively strengthen that policy as Government and come up with a legislation that compels the companies to honour their promises.
Let me further explain that at the moment, Government is busy drafting such an enabling legislation. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural
Development. It concerns the issue of potholes in the urban centres. What role does ZINARA play on the road signs and kilometre pegs because in the entire country, there are no kilometre markers. What is happening? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Thank you Madam President. I thank Hon. Sen. Komichi for the question which then requires me to explain what the state of affairs is as regards the two questions. The first question is in regards to potholes in urban locations all urban settlements or cities. Towns have nothing to do with the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
Harare City Council, Bulawayo City Council, in fact all local authorities
- ZINARA gives money to four road authorities; Town Councils, Rural District Councils, DDF and the Department of Roads. Those four road authorities have the power to maintain their own roads network. The
Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development is in charge of trunk roads. So the potholes that we are seeing in the urban centres require us to ask the councils what they are doing with the money that they are receiving if they are not dealing with the potholes.
It is correct Sen. Komichi, to say that road authorities in these cities are having inadequate funding. So they are not able to maintain the road infrastructure. The roads are now in a dilapidated state. As a result, they are now pothole infested because of the heavy rainfall which we are receiving, which reminds us of the heavy falls which we got in 1945 and in the 1980s. The heavy vehicles that are using those roads, because of the water table we are having our roads susceptible to potholes. We are not going to assist cities such as Harare, Gweru, Chinhoyi, Bindura, etc. There was a declaration that there is a national disaster on city roads. So, we are assisting the City of Harare to maintain these roads because they are receiving inadequate funding.
The funding now released by ZINARA is inadequate so as to ensure that all those people that are charged with road maintenance will be able to discharge their duties properly. At most, ZINARA has raised $148 million. Out of that amount, a lot of it is used to pay for the
Plumtree-Mutare road and other ancillary activities. We have a debt of $206 million which is serviced over 10 years. So far we have paid for three years with 7 years still outstanding. So we are realising very little and as a result, we are unable to give sufficient funds to our urban authorities.
Some of these urban centres that are properly using their funds have good roads. For example, Bulawayo is very clean because it is using their funds for that specific purpose. Gwanda and Kwekwe are in the similar category. The municipalities are paying or using that money for the purposes that it is intended whereas others use that money to pay their allowances and pay debts. As a result, they will be unable to meet their obligation on the road maintenance exercise. We went round the local authorities and urged them to use the money set out for the roads for that specific purpose. I believe I have tried to explain in a much clearer manner as regards that issue. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I have asked about the road signs that are now missing in the entire country.
HON. DR. GUMBO: I am sorry; it is true there were three questions in one not two in one. The third aspect is that the road signs that we are now using conform to the SADC region. So, it is no longer the function of the Ministry of Transport alone but it is an issue that we are now carrying out in conjunction with the SADC region. We used to have our signs mounted on metals but we now use wooden poles. I am sorry we are not doing that as SADC but the problem that we are facing Madam President, is the signs that we are putting on the roads are now being vandalised and it is a problem that we are facing with our citizens.
It is noted that the signs are missing, some have been stolen and vandalised and these are being sorted out. For example, Plumtree to Mutare, we do not have such a responsibility until after 10 years. Group
5 has the responsibility to maintain those signs as well as the road itself.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to ask the Minister of Health and Child Care. What measures have you taken as a Ministry to assist children that are born with growths and the parents are unable to have those children operated on. Your hospitals are asking for cash upfront. Also, albinos are facing challenges of accessing their skin lotions or sun creams in order that they do not seriously get affected and develop wounds as a result of being susceptible to the heat wave. What measures are you taking to alleviate this plight of these vulnerable people? I thank you Madam President.
*THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you President of the Senate. I would want to thank the Senator for the two important questions that she has asked. What we are doing about children being born with abnormalities, growths in their bodies and swollen and are asking for assistance from the nation at large. We have observed that the majority of these people have gone to hospitals and have been told that those that have hydrocephalus can be done locally. A tube can be inserted to drain water in the head. There are those that are born with a growth on the back, which is caused by the neural tube diseases. It affects the spinal cord or the brain. We can now conduct such operations in this country. We have certain doctors and professors or neurosurgeons that are capable of conducting these operations but we require modern equipment to conduct microsurgery. That is where we are found wanting.
What hurts us most is that these children should go as far as India and China for medication. We would love to have the equipment that they have in India and China to be available locally because our local doctors can conduct the same surgery. Those doctors that ask for cash upfront; it is not Government policy. Our policy is that every child should come to the hospital and be attended to. Payment will be done later. However, we have observed that some of our hospitals are not following this policy. Our policy says we do not chase away patients.
The second issue of the albinos, these people suffer from lack of melanin. Melanin gives human skin the colour. It helps as a sun screen.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: May the Hon.
Minister please address the Chair.
*HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you. The sun affects
the albinos because they do not have melanin. As a result, their skins are affected. That is why the majority of them should wear hats so that their faces are not affected by the sun. We need money for them to be constantly applying sun screens so that their cells are not affected and damaged. We may have these sun screens here and there but again our problem is lack of resources. Day in day out, Madam President, I mourn the lack of adequate provision from the Treasury for the needs of the Ministry of Health and Child Care.
Ideally, we would require $65 million per year to buy drugs through the National Pharmaceutical Company of Zimbabwe. To afford sunscreens and other such medication, we will be in a position to buy such drugs for our people. I am grateful Hon. Senator for the question that you have asked. Our plea is that we require adequate funding to buy these drugs. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. May I be enlightened on the issue of the Basic Education Assistance Module (BEAM). What assistance are you going to give the girl child in the communal lands who now has to be married before the age of majority?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief for your pertinent question. The BEAM is a programme that we set out to assist particularly the girl child that the chief has mentioned. The leaders of the community assist us in looking for those children that are disadvantaged and those that have no parents to assist them with their fees. The communities select the children that are vulnerable. The chief is one of the elders in the community and has influence to direct in terms of orphans and those that are vulnerable in their respective communities.
I know that as Government we owe schools in fees for children that are on the BEAM. As Government, we believe that we will be paying and the headmasters should not chase away those children from school. The children should pursue their education and should even write their examinations. I would want to believe that we now have an understanding with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. They are informing headmasters that children are no longer allowed to be sent away from school. They are now allowed to write their examinations and if there is any problem with payment, my Ministry will be responsible for the payment. I thank you for what you have mentioned Hon. Chief and because of the plea that you have made, Treasury would hear us and disburse some funds to pay for these debts.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My supplementary question is, what happens to the children who are on BEAM when they want to proceed to
Form One?
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam President. I would want the august House to understand that the Committee that chooses children that are entitled for BEAM is the same for those that are at primary and secondary schools. Once a child has progressed from primary to secondary school, the same requirements would have been met. This is because this is the same selection committee that has identified the child at primary level. So, if there is incoherence in that regard, please come and see us because that should never be an issue. A child once admitted on BEAM from primary would go through secondary education on the same scheme. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President.
My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Before 2013, there were some special interest councilors to represent certain interests but they are no longer in use. The Constitution only came up with Members of
Parliament with disability. Are you going to be putting such provisions in the laws as you look at the operationalisation of the metropolitan provincial and district councils because it is missing in the Constitution?
I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Madam President. I would want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question posed. Indeed, our Constitution is silent on that issue but the Ministry in its alignment is looking to get that in terms of the law. So, the issue of the disabled, when dealing with the alignment of the Constitution, that issue would be brought on board I thank you.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce. What steps has the Ministry taken to remove Statutory Instrument 20, to remove the consequences of the high charges of materials because even the farmers are failing to adapt?
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I thank you Madam President for the pertinent question from the Senator. The issue of the Statutory
Instrument No. 20 belongs to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. It touches us as Industry and Commerce but it emanates from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. Therefore, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development stated clearly, that Statutory Instrument is going to be suspended but we are busy coming up with measures to reverse that instrument. Maybe tomorrow the suspension of the reversal will be published by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: My question is directed to the
Minister of Health and Child Care. We have a number of people who are diabetic, unemployed and old - what help is Government giving to these kinds of people?
*THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): I would want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. I would want to say that some of the diseases that are non communicable such as cancer, high blood pressure and diabetes, mostly those three are now affecting the majority of our population and consequently a lot of people are suffering from strokes. You can suffer from heart diseases because of diabetes. Your liver can also be damaged because of diabetes. Diabetes affects even the eyes. It affects a lot of organs. We are observing that it is now quite common in Zimbabwe.
There are a lot of organisations that are assisting us as the Diabetic Associations. What is required is to create awareness amongst our people on how they can tell whether they have diabetes and this visibility should be raised in as far as that issue is concerned that if you are passing too much urine, eating a lot, getting hungry quickly and feeling weak, we suspect that you could be suffering from diabetes. There are certain other symptoms that prevail amongst women. We observe that any disease is not any one’s fault. These are chronic diseases and we hope our hospitals when they see that you suffer from high blood pressure, the drugs that are prescribed to you should be charged at half the price as compared to other drugs because if you are going to be prescribed insulin, it is quite expensive and for a long time as it is a chronic disease.
I plead with you that the Ministry of Health and Child Care be given adequate funding. It is my plea once again that we be given sufficient funding so that we are able to buy medication. A lot of people suffer from diabetes, cancer and hypertension. They should easily access these drugs from Government hospitals. A lot of people are dying because they go and seek attention from hospitals and are not able to accept it. I urge this august Senate to give us more in terms of budget allocation.
We once reached a stage where we gathered together with experts in the Ministry to see what will be the required amount for the Ministry per year and what the cost of health care per year is in the public sector in Zimbabwe and we came up with a figure of $1.3 billion annually. Everyone was shocked bearing in mind that our economy is a $4 billion one. We are saying this is the amount that we require to ensure that the
Ministry of Health and Child Care properly discharges its duties.
Whether the money is there or not but this is the figure that is required. Zimbabwe needs to know about it. We require $1.3 billion per year which helps us with infrastructure, equipment, staffing and drugs. That is what the health system of Zimbabwe requires. That will cover all the issues including those living with albinism and such other issues. Please register it in your minds that we require $1.3b. We are not being unrealistic but this is what the country needs, whether the money is there or not. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MABUGU: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Could you please tell us as to whether the construction of the Beitbridge-Masvingo-Harare road has started? If not when is the construction going to commence because a lot of fatalities are being recorded on that road due to potholes. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO): I
would like to thank Senator Mabugu for her question. Let me clarify to the Senators. We are happy because they will be listening to our questions unlike in the Lower House. Our road from Beitbridge to Chirundu which passes through Harare will now be constructed. We gave the tender to Geiger International which comes from Austria. What has stopped the commencement of the work is the rainy season but the engineers and other workers are already in this country. We were discussing with Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira that our team of engineers and their own engineers are already in the country. Yesterday, we were looking for a place to conduct the ground breaking ceremony with all our chiefs from Beitbridge to Mahonaland East in Chikomba because this is the section that we are going to be constructing at the moment. We spoke to those in Masvingo and we informed them what it is all about and we were imparting knowledge to our chiefs. Half that road will now be constructed.
We stopped the Harare to Chirundu Road because we were promised some money by the Japanese. They promised a grant to His
Excellency the President, Cde. Mugabe. They are working in Makuti to see when they are going to be channeling the 20 km section that they would want to construct – how much would that grant cost. Then, we will deduct that amount from the one that is being charged from Harare to Chirundu by the contractor. It is now a reality Hon. Senator that the road is now going to be constructed. It will be constructed in segments - that is from Beitbridge to Chikomba, into six segments so that those that are working on that section of the road will be six groups. We would want to believe that in 18 months, one section of the road will have been completed in two and a half years.
We believe that the road will be fully dualised and that would reduce accidents as well as the potholes which I now also have observed when I travel that they are numerous. We are also trying to patch up the potholes from the fund that we came into agreement with South Africa.
The Beitbridge access point is co-joined by Zimbabwe and South Africa. The levy that is being paid by motorists is being kept in Zimbabwe and we were given $4 million to repair potholes – that is $2 million from
Beitbridge to Chirundu and Beitbridge to Victoria Falls so that we cover the potholes and at the same time we will be constructing the road. I would want to believe that there are now fewer potholes along the Masvingo/Beitbridge Road. The road is getting narrower and narrower and as a result of that, a lot of swiping of motor vehicles is now occurring on that road.
Let me just empty all the issues that are there. The Zimbabwean companies are also going to be allowed to have 40% of the construction works. Advertisements are going to be placed in newspapers and I would want to say this so that it comes into the public domain because people are approaching me as individuals. You are going to be informed about the 40% quota of Zimbabweans and what are the works that you could do – whether it could be to transporting quarry, gravel or any other such works. Advertisements are going to be placed so that you can come on board as business persons and the Zimbabwean public can then benefit. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: My question is directed to Hon. Dr.
Gumbo the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Last year, you talked about the road from Nkayi and Tsholotsho. The Minister promised that in a short time, they would have started work and how far have you gone now about that road which has gone for over 30 years without being rehabilitated.
HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you for this backdoor supplementary
question. I still want to take it that the issue is about roads and I think I should just oblige to respond to it. It is true that we promised that we would be dealing with or constructing the Nkayi-Bulawayo Road which we did. We did it by re-gravelling and it is totally washed away for now and it is in a very bad state. It is one of the roads which we are going to construct on what we call a Build, Operate and Transfer (BOT) model, but before that BOT takes place; it takes a lot of time. As you can see, even the one that we are talking about now, the Beitbridge-Chirundu Road, it was awarded last year in February but up to now, construction has not started. So at times may be we come too overzealous and let our colleagues know that we are going to be doing whatever we want to do and you will expect us to be on the ground the following week or month.
It is not really possible. The plans are there and we will be working on that road which is on a BOT model. So, we have not forgotten about it but at the moment, it is in a bad state and nationwide, all roads are washed away. The 70 000 km of roads particularly in the rural areas which we re-graveled last year, they are now all gone and there is actually no road to talk about countrywide. We are very concerned about it and we will be visiting all the places irrespective of whoever is there as an MP or anybody. We are looking at it as a Ministry to make the roads passable and not at the area or constituency or person but just to make sure that the roads are passable. There is a lot of crop that is going to be harvested this year because of the command agriculture and we would want to make sure that all the roads are trafficable. So, we are going to be visiting Nkayi Road again but at the moment, even if we can have the money, which we do not have because we need it as well, there is no ways we can visit any place and do the roads. You cannot do it in mud because of the rains that are upon us. We like them but also they come with a cost and this is the position. I thank you Madam President. *HON. SEN. CHIEF CHISUNGA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Minister of State for Provincial Affairs for Mashonaland Central, Adv. Martin Dinha. We have people that are facing the danger of hunger in Mashonaland Central in the Mbire District. We have gone for two months without getting the maize for drought relief. What steps have you taken to redress the situation?
What measures are you taking to make the road from Kanyemba to Bindura to be traffickable?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Chief, the
question that you have asked is for the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services and the second one about the road is for
Minister Dr. Gumbo. Please pose your questions to those two Hon.
Ministers.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHISUNGA: I stand guided Madam
President. May the respective Ministers may respond to the questions.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam President, I only heard bits and pieces because the question was initially addressed to Hon. Dinha. I will respond.
That is the truth of the matter Madam President. The problem about the impassable roads is a problem that we are aware of year in, year out. We know that in Muzarabani, in Mashonaland Central, there are problems. The information that we have currently is that we had sent sufficient maize to cover two months knowing that within the two months, there will be problems with transport logistics. We had agreed that we would have problems of food for two months; thereafter the situation would have improved. Maybe we miscalculated; we may need to revisit the drawing board and see how best we can strategise that. Year in , year out we plan to ensure that we deliver as much maize as possible before the onset of the rainy season because the roads become impassable during the rainy season. With regards to having sufficient stocks in the area to cover for the period that we have set out, maybe there was a mis-calculation or miscommunication between those that are at the head office and those on the ground. We will take it as a learning curve. In future, we would want to look maybe, at three month supply having been given to the area to alleviate such a problem. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Thank you Madam President. The Ministry of Transport has a headache with roads in Mashonaland Central. We went to Mashonaland Central on the 10th of January, 2017 and informed the local Members of Parliament, road authorities in your province and we discussed about the roads in question that we would assist in ensuring that something would be done about those roads during this year. You may not have been at the meeting but the point is that there are some measures that we agreed with the leadership in Mashonaland Central on how we would do it.
The Ministry of Transport requires US$5 billion to ensure that all the roads are now trafficable. Mashonaland Central and Matabeleland North are the provinces that I personally visited and I assisted and I am aware of the draught, or famine or hunger. Chiredzi is impassible; the same area where I come from in Gokwe is also impassible but we will go to all these places.
We have received questions as regards the roads that you have discussed. We have put aside a funding to assist in that regard. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment. Hon. Minister, when youths were given loans, they misused them because they did not know how to run their businesses well. What measures are you going to put in place to educate the youths on how best they can run their businesses and handle their finances well?
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, INDIGENISATION AND
ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT (HON. ZHUWAO): Thank you
Madam President. I am grateful for the question posed by the Hon. Senator. I would want to explain initially that the loans given to the youth by banks to start up their business; we are mostly informed that it was misused. There are allegations that 97% of those loans were not repaid but I would want to say that the newspapers in the majority of cases will be saying false information. The money that was loaned is US$4, 9 million and US$1, 7 million was repaid. So, the majority of that loan was paid. The problem that was then experienced was that the youth that were given the funding failed to secure a market for their products.
Secondly, some of these youth did not have knowledge on how to manage finances. Some did not even know how businesses work. When we looked into the issue, we came up with a programme where each youth who is at a vocational training centre should also be taught about business entrepreneurial skills and the management of businesses. So, these entrepreneurial studies are now being carried out at 42 of our vocational training centres.
At National Youth Service, we have instructed that all the participants should also involve the education of entrepreneurial services as well as the history of this country. About of 320 graduates underwent such programme. So, we now require all youth that are undergoing youth services, we are going to open all our camps for youth service this year so that they are all taught on how to have entrepreneurial skills and management of funds.
I would want to further add that the majority of those youth that are into practical subjects may not have the knowhow of accounting. We have taken measures to have such support services in the form of companies. There are about four companies in line with the four ZIM
ASSET clusters. Youth Employ Zimbabwe is for poverty eradication,
Kid-ship Zimbabwe is for utilities and infrastructure and Youth Make Zimbabwe is for value addition and beneficiation.
I would want to conclude Madam President, by explaining further that as a Ministry we have now said our thrust when we want to assist the youth, is to assist the youth that are already working. Last year, we went round this country and we found 39 358 youths that are already working. They have created employment for 93 692. These are the youths that we are targeting so as to enhance the work that they are doing. We will be assisted by the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development to open an Empower Bank for the youths. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. Hon. Minister, we have got thousands of girl children who graduated from nursing, who are not employed. Their certificates have gathered enough dust. Do you have any plan; how are you going to help these children, especially those whose training has already become obsolete due to nonusage. How are you going to help them?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Madam President. I would like
to thank the Hon. Senator for that very important question. It is true that there are a lot of our nurses whom we have trained at the level of
Registered General Nurse, who train for three years as opposed to the
Primary Care Nurse who trains for 18 months. Those who train for three years are called Registered General Nurses. We now have 4 200 unemployed who have come out of our schools.
What we do need however, in our institutions is a figure of 8 000 nurses. So, while on one hand we have 4 200 unemployed, on the other hand we need 8 000 nurses in our institutions. The issue at hand is, we need the establishment of nurses and other health professionals to be put up. The current establishment reflects an establishment of 1983. We have been lobbying hard enough to be given more nurse establishment and other health professionals.
When you train nurses for three years and they do not get into work, usually after two years we have to re-train them, at least put them at a refresher course and that is expensive. So, we have got two options; firstly, to put up the establishment so that we can absorb all those nurses. Secondly, to do like what the Philippians and other countries do, to train nurses for other countries, on a properly structured manner where you say, okay we are training nurses – Ghana, do you need nurses; can we send 200 nurses? We have a Memorandum of Agreement and a properly structured way of doing it.
Our preference is that, let us first fill in our needs by putting up the establishment. I must announce today that the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development has been very good, he has offered us to recruit 2 000 nurses to start off with. I think that is good. So, we will be recruiting 2 000 nurses and we are hoping that as we talk with them more and more, they may expand that but for now, 2 000 nurses are going to be recruited so that we lessen the number of nurses that are unemployed in our country. So, it is a pertinent question; it is an important issue and really, we should carry this as a country that we have more places for those nurses who are training.
Let me add that we will not stop training. It has been advised that please since they are not being employed, stop training. We argued that we will continue training, may be at a lower scale because once you close a nursing school, to re-open it is always expensive. So, we have lessened the numbers. For example, institutions that used to take three lots of nurses in January, May and September, we have asked them to take two lots of nurses for training so that we have less number of nurses but we continue training. Thank you Madam President.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number
Hon. Sen. Mohadi having wanted to move for the extension of time for Questions without Notice.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: At this point in
time, you cannot extend the time, you have extended already. I would like to remind Hon. Senators - this is why I always almost beg to say, please do not address the House when you want to pose a question because you are eating into the question time. Please, pose your question and that question must be directed to the correct Ministry.
We actually take up half of the question time addressing the House before we pose our questions and questions have to be on the Ministry’s policy please. So, I am sure when we come back next Thursday, with that in mind, we will pose questions. This is a long list but all these Senators are not going to enjoy questions which have come from their constituents because some of us have taken time. It is not appreciated. Please pose policy questions, make them short so that we can all pose the questions we would have brought from our respective constituencies.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
EVICTION OF COMMUNITIES FROM FARMING AND GRAZING
LANDS IN THE ZVEHAMBA, MATANKENI AND MAHETSHE
VILLAGES OF MATOBO DISTRICT
- HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to inform the House why the Government is violently evicting communities from farming and grazing lands in the Zvehamba, Matankeni, Mahetshe villages of Matobo District at the behest of Trek/ARDA Project which is enforcing a 1947 plan, which does not recognise that these families have been residing in these areas since 1912.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Hon.
President. I would like to thank Hon. Mlotshwa for asking the question. The area in question belongs to ARDA and is clearly demarcated on the ground. This area is adjacent to communal areas. When ARDA took occupation of the area in 1947, they did not take up all the land that was allocated to them. ARDA had an agreement with the community that they can temporarily utilise the land that was not under its immediate use. However, the advent of command agriculture has seen ARDA reclaiming all their land, hence, resulting in evictions/conflict.
A visit was carried out by Matebeleland South Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement Officials, the Matobo District Administrator and
ZRP on the invitation of Hon. A. Ncube. It was discovered that;
- No violent evictions were carried out;
- Farmers were engaged on 27th September, 2016 and 10th
November, 2016;
- Mainly arable land was affected by the ARDA expansion while houses were spared and at the moment, only eight arable pieces of land were affected;
- There is only one case where ARDA expansion affected one household belonging to Mr. Collet Ncube. ARDA pledged to assist him to relocate whilst Public Works Department has been engaged to evaluate his property. Collet Ncube has not yet moved;
- ARDA is on the ground and has since cleared 400 hectares for command agriculture;
- After full expansion, ARDA will cover 1000 hectares;
- Only two villages will be affected by the expansion, which are,
Zvehamba and Matankeni, thus Mahetshe is spared; and
- Villages have an alternative arable land since they were fully aware that the land they were using belongs to ARDA.
In addition to that, we do not manage land belonging to parastatals, that falls under other Ministries. Land belonging to ARDA is a responsibility of the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Hon. Minister, ARDA was not there
in 1947, there was a colonial organisation that pegged the land and forcibly evicted people who had settled there in 1912 and ARDA only came to fore in 1980. On the 13th of August, 2016, the Minister of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage, Hon. A. Ncube sent people to inform the villagers. On the 15th September, we have footage of how violently the Ministry used excavators to destroy people’s farms. So, you cannot tell me that there was nothing like that. It is there, I live there.
As the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement, I want to know, how do you then present in the Cabinet, because you are supposed to give these people an alternative? They have a right to land, they have a right to farm and they need grazing land for economic purposes. If you take 500 hectares and you do not give alternative as a Ministry, where do you expect them to go? My question is, when are you giving them the alternative because what you are reading there is not the true case?
HON. CHIKWAMA: I think ARDA has been there since long back, before 1980. Through our research, we found that maybe the name might have changed but it was there. Another issue I want to raise is that, whatever problem we might have in any area in Zimbabwe, we engage the people. That is why I told you that a team was set to visit the area and the findings are those which I read here. I do not know whether you are saying it is a lie but this is what is on the ground and Hon. A.
Ncube can confirm that.
On alternative allocation of land, the Ministry cannot give an assurance that they are going to provide that because this land was allocated on an agreement long back that they were going to use the land which ARDA was not using at that time until ARDA was ready to use it. I also informed you that we do not manage land belonging to parastatals, it is the responsibility of other Ministries. So, if you are not sure with
our answer, you can approach the Ministry of Agriculture,
Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, he is the one who controls ARDA. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President. I just want to follow up on that question. Between 1947 and 2016, I think we almost have 70 years if my arithmetic is correct. In 70 years, people built a lot in terms of property development. The dates that have been advanced here by the Hon. Senator indicates that these people were given one month within which to uproot themselves from places that they have been working from for 70 years. Surely, is it correct for a Government of Zimbabwe to treat its citizens in that manner?
HON. CHIKWAMA: Hon. Senator, I think I have already
explained to you that there is no one whose house or property was destroyed. Only one person was affected and there is a team which is making evaluation of that property. The team from Public Works is also evaluating the value of that property. I heard you saying it is now 70 years but ARDA was not using that land. However, it was until the programme of command agriculture was implemented that ARDA decided to use the land and they went back to the community to talk to them that we are going to use our lands. I have already explained everything - there is nothing like that, through our investigation this is what the team that visited there came up with. – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
Hon. Senator if you do not like the answer, there is a possibility of you making an appointment at the Ministry and you have a thorough discussion which you can even take an hour or more.
WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT STRATEGIC PLAN
- 4. SEN. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Environment,
Water and Climate to advise the House whether the Ministry has:
- developed a water resources development strategic plan for the country in view of dwindling water levels and what timeframes have been specified for the development of extra water capacity for the main cities; and
- what concrete plans, if any, are in place for the construction of the Zambezi Water Project.
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): I want to thank Hon. Sibanda for
the two parts questions. In response to part (a) of the question Mr. President, my Ministry has a strategic plan in place with proposed dams covering cities and towns like Harare, Bulawayo, Chitungwiza and Bindura among others. The designs for the proposed dams are already in place. The Ministry hosted a water investment conference in 2015 where some of the priority projects were presented to potential investors in order to finance the implementation of such projects. Water supply projects for towns like Harare and Chitungwiza have already secured investors. Water supply for Bulawayo will be boosted once the Epping
Forest project is completed at the beginning of the 3rd quarter of 2017.
As for part (b) of the question Mr. President, the National Matabeleland Zambezi Water Project has a total budgetary requirement of US$1.72 billion. Due to the huge funding requirement, the project has been put to 3 phases. $122 million of this is required to complete the first phase which is to build Gwayi Shangani dam and a $10 million mini hydro scheme on the same dame. The remaining $1.4 billion is going towards the second and third phases which are the construction of the conveyance infrastructure from Gwayi-Shangani Dam to Cowdray Park in Bulawayo and the construction of the pipeline from the Zambezi river to the dam.
Currently the first phase is under way, wholly funded by Government and the contractor will this year finish the foundation works following a budget allocation of $4.5 million by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
This is one of the priority projects and very important to the region and the country for which prospective investors are being engaged to finance the full implementation to completion. Funding constraints have seen limited progress being registered on the project, especially when given that it is capital intensive, but Government remains committed to see through the project. I thank you Madam President.
PLANS TO MITIGATE DROUGHT IN THE COUNTRY
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Environment,
Water and Climate;
- to state the plans in place to mitigate drought in case the country faces one.
- to inform the House, what measures the Ministry has put in place to safeguard people in the low lying areas in the event of floods.
- to inform the House, what contingent measures the Government has put in place in the event that Kariba Dam does not get adequate water to generate energy for the country
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): Mr. President, my Ministry has
plans to rehabilitate 100 community dams in the country’s 10 provinces under its water resources management planning and development department and the Ministry’s parastatal ZINWA making use of the US$
7 million committed last year by Government. This is key drought mitigation measure as it promotes the harvesting of rain water in the said dam for later use during the long dry spells associated with droughts.
The Ministry is working in the same vein to redesign and rehabilitate community dams which were damaged by the recent incessant rainfall activity and flooding across the country. These dams are key water sources for agricultural activities, especially water supply for irrigation watering livestock and recharging groundwater for domestic consumption. The Ministry is working with partner agencies in the WASH sector to drill, equip or rehabilitate a total of 5 600 boreholes in all communities across the country to ensure adequate water supplies. Mr. President, with regards to the (b) part of the question - my Ministry is the technical arm of government that collect, analyse and disseminate meteorological and hydrological data and information in the interest of safety of the public and facilitating quick decision making on the part of Civil protection teams countrywide. The Ministry under its water resources management planning and development department and with ZINWA as the technical arm, collects data from hydrometric stations on strategic locations on the country’s rivers and these are regularly monitored to check if flows are not posing a hazard to low lying communities.
The Ministry continues to push for automating its hydrometric stations so that there is real time data transmission and flood alerts can be given as quickly as possible in time to give the disaster response effort enough time to execute mitigation measures and save lives. The actual movement and translocation of people and animals during floods is led by the Civil Protection Unit, for which my Ministry is a member and actively participates.
As for question (c) on informing the House of contingency measures, the Government has put in place in the event that the Kariba
Dam does not have adequate water to generate energy for the country. Mr. President, my Ministry is in charge of water affairs and has a role to ensure that the available water resources in Kariba and other dams are used as efficiently as possible and in the national interest. In terms of power generation, the Ministry at the beginning of each hydrological season engages with all parties to the Zambezi River
Authority where the Ministry of Energy and Power Development, as well as Zimbabwe Power Company are represented and advises parties to the water available so as to guide generation scheduling and avoid blackouts. Contingency measures to be able to generate power for the country will among other things start with spreading the available water resources over the entire hydrological season and thus avoiding black outs. The Ministry is also facilitating the development of mini hydro projects on state dams and rivers, some perennial rivers and streams and thus providing an enabling environment for power generation. The actual power generation and plans for contingent planning in terms of energy rests with the responsible Ministry.
Lastly, responding to Question (d) from Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi, which requires me to inform the House on plans the Government has to remove weeds in most dams in our country, especially lake Chivero from which water to the locations in Harare come from.
Mr. President, the weeds in some of our dams such as Chivero are a symptom of pollution of our water sources by, among other things, the discharge of untreated sewerage effluent from the cities’ sewerage treatment works. This effluent deposits a lot of organic nutrients into the water bodies, thus giving rise to the massive growth of weeds. The Ministry, through its environment arm is pushing for all stakeholders to observe best practices in environmental protection to sustainably put a stop to the pollution of our water sources and avoid costly remedial works which will divert funds from critical water infrastructure developmental investments.
There is a principle in place however which puts the burden on polluters. They should pay for the cost of restoring the environment to its ideal state before pollution as a result of their activities.
Government has further invested in draglines, which among other duties will be employed to clear our water bodies of the water hyacinth. Attending to the source, that is, ensuring that waste water being discharged into the environment is of acceptable quality remains the priority to addressing the challenge. This is why Government is working with development partners on various waste water rehabilitation programmes in towns and cities so that the infrastructure is functional again and hence waste water quality is enhanced. I thank you Mr. President.
MEASURES TO ASSIST MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTIONS 6. HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to:
- Inform the House on the measures that have been put in place by the Government to assist mental health institutions like Ngomahuru and Ingutsheni to allocate them with the requisite resources;
- To inform the House, what the Ministry is doing to ensure that Ngomahuru Mental Hospital gets adequate medical supplies for the mental patients;
- To state the measures in place by the Ministry to ensure the availability of a clinic at Chikurubi Maximum Prison; and
- To inform the House what plans the Ministry has in place to assist
Bindura Prison to cater for the following:
- Transport for prisoners;
- Uniforms for prisoners;
- A borehole.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): I would want to thank Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for that very important question. I want to acknowledge that Ingutsheni and Ngomahuru Hospitals are national institutions. Ingutsheni Hospital is in fact one of our six central hospitals. Therefore, they are of particular importance to the nation because they cater for the mental health of our population. The most important thing to recognise is that inmates and patients at those two institutions do not pay any user fees. The Ministry therefore, always tries to prioritise allocation to these two institutions.
The amounts that are allocated to them may seem small but where ever money is received, it is allocated to them too. The Ministry also sources for donations in the form of food for these two institutions, as well as clothing items, as there are some patients who are permanent at these institutions. We have got a list of donations that have been received from the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, as well as ZIMRA. Let it be noted that we have also given permission to the hospital management board at Ingutsheni and Ngomahuru to source for donations from the community in their respective areas where ever possible.
In terms of monies that were given to Ngomahuru and Ingutsheni
Hospitals in the past two years, for 2016, Ngomahuru made a bid $798 135 and Government allocated $410 000. The actual cash received by the hospital was $498 048. Ingutsheni Hospital bidded for $3.3 million in 2016 and they were allocated through the budget $860 000. The actual money that came to them was $671 000. For 2017, Ngomahuru has made a bid of $1 million but the Government has allocated $410
- We are still waiting for the actual money that will be received by
Ngomahuru. Ingutsheni bidded for $23 million and have been allocated $872 000. We also have a list of donations that have been given and I will forward this for the scrutiny of Senators and the House. Thank you Mr. President.
SENSITISATION OF PROVINCIAL AND DISTRICT HOSPITALS
ON THE ONE THOUSAND NUTRITION DAYS
7) HON. SEN. D.T. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House what measures the Ministry has taken to sensitise the Provincial and District Hospitals on the One Thousand Nutrition Days, which the country embraced during the period 2010/11.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you very much Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for the question. I understand the question aims to understand what we have done as a Ministry to sensitise our provincial and district cadres on the importance of nutrition during the first 1000 days of birth, as a measure to reduce stunting and malnutrition. Since 2011, the Ministry has trained provincial and district health teams, responsible for both hospitals, clinics and also for communities to ensure they have adequate knowledge and skills in promoting nutrition in the first 1000 days of birth and to reduce stunting and malnutrition.
The Ministry has gone further to include sensitization of a multisectoral committee at provincial and district levels on the importance of nutrition in these days. Training and capacity building activities have been conducted in all the eight provinces, targeting officers from different sectors, including Public Service and Social Welfare, Agriculture, Education and Local Government to ensure that they are aware of the importance of nutrition in the first 1000 days as a measure to reduce stunting.
Further sensitization and capacity building on importance of nutrition in the district and provincial staff have been conducted through training on various programmes, such as baby friendly hospital initiative, community infant and young child feeding programmes, world breastfeeding week and sensitization among other programmes the
Ministry is currently implementing.
The Ministry has also developed a national nutrition communication strategy, which will end in 2018. One of the key aims under that is to involve multi-sectoral interventions to improve awareness of the 1000 days window of opportunity for preventing stunting for community members. The Ministry is also supplementing iron and foliate in pregnant mothers, as well as, Vitamin A supplementation in the six to 59 months age group. Thank you.
HON. SEN. D.T. KHUMALO: My supplementary question is, we were moving around and asked the staff within the district and provincial hospitals. None of them knew anything about the 1000 days. We went around as a Committee of Parliament. None of the district and the provincial hospitals we visited had an idea of what the 1000 days are about.
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you very much Hon.
Senator. I would just appeal that we get that report so that we can also appropriately respond to it.
UTILISATION OF DIETICIANS SERVICES IN HEALTH
INSTITUTIONS
- HON. SEN. KHUMALO. D.T asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain why to the House why Health Institutions are not utilizing the services of dieticians at their disposal to assist the malnourished children.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you for the question Hon. Senator.
Let me first clarify that the Ministry of Health and Child Care is fully utilising nutrition specialists in all our provincial, district and community health facilities in managing malnourished children and adult patients. Our districts have nutritionists, a health professional cadre more like a dietician whom the Hon. Senator has referred to. Dieticians and nutritionists are both experts in food and diet. They have studied how diet; nutrition and supplements affect your body and your health. In our setting, the only difference between a nutritionist and a dietician is that a dietician is found at central hospital level, offering clinical nutrition services and dietetics which focuses more on individual patients and institution level while a nutritionist is found at provincial and district level offering a mixture of clinical nutrition and community nutrition dealing with nutrition issues for populations and communities. Currently, the country trains nutritionists from the University of Zimbabwe and other universities such as MSU have already started producing nutritionists. Hence our Ministry has a post of a nutritionist for every district and these professionals are responsible for management of malnourished children and adults. As we speak, almost 80% of the nutritionists post have been filled up in the various provinces and the gaps are due to challenges that include freezing of posts affecting other healthcare staff as well.
Currently, the Ministry employed about four dieticians in central hospitals and we also hope to improve recruitment of dieticians in provincial and district hospitals where their services are mostly relevant. There is however, a need to increase the number of positions for nutritionists and dieticians in the health sector to ensure that the population easily accesses services of these professionals.
HON. SEN. T. KHUMALO: Supplementary. During our visit, the
provincial hospitals were referring the treatment of malnourished children to church hospitals because they said they were not able to do that feeding treatment. What is your response to that?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Again Mr. President, this is a
specific hospital and I would like to see that report as well so that we can appropriately respond and take measures on it.
PROVISION OF PSYCHOLOGICAL SUPPORT TO VICTIMS OF RAPE AND SODOMISED CHILDREN
- HON. SEN. T. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain to the House why the Ministry does not provide psychological support to victims of rape and sodomised children as way of mitigating against their traumatic experiences that results in such victims being admitted in mental institutions.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): The Ministry of Health and Child Care
works tirelessly towards the realisation of child rights as enshrined in our Constitution. As a Ministry we take great cognizance of the Principle of Survival and Best Interest of the Child as articulated in the regional and international treaties that Government has ratified:
- AU African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child
(ACRWC ratified 1995)
- UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UN CRC ratified in
1992)
In this regard the Ministry of Health and Child Care strives to ensure that institutions, services and facilities responsible for care and protection of children are catered for by competent, suitably qualified staff in child friendly environments. To this effect, the Ministry of Health and Child Care has the following in place as regards to survivors of sexual abuse in terms of rape and sodomy:
- Survivor Friendly Clinic/Services Approach:- a friendly environment is the initial step in the provision of psychological support. The environment is non threatening, is child friendly with play materials of different forms to allow the survivor to relax and not be further traumatised.
- The services are delivered by qualified doctors and nurses who would have undergone training in the care and management of survivors of sexual violence.
The training package is inclusive of counselling skills and psychotherapy which form the basis of psychological support. Counselling is begun from the time the survivor is first attended to. Parents/guardians also receive counselling to enable them to be supportive to the survivor.
- The health personnel providing these services with support from partners specifically Family Support Trust are afforded a chance to further their skills in counseling by sending them to embark on a certificate course on Systematic Counselling with Connect. In 2016, 46 nurses received such training and this programme will continue to be rolled out to all who are providing the services.
- Peer Support Groups/Group Psychotherapy for survivors of sexual violence are being established for continuity with psycho-social support. It helps the survivors to have better coping mechanisms in their day to day lives and prevent cases of depression et cetera. The groups meet on regular basis where the capacitated health personnel with counselling skills facilitate the meetings.
- Community Focal Persons, these are volunteer community cadres who are capacitated on issues of child rights including child violence issues. They identify cases of child rights violations, in this case, abuse; gives information to the survivors
and guardians on services available for intervention and they do basic counseling. They refer to the hospital for medical intervention, police and social welfare for further protection. They also assist in follow up of survivors in the community encouraging them to attend Peer Support Groups and to attend livelihoods skills training.
- Livelihoods Skills Training, those who will not be in school are taught different skills which help them to earn a living, for example hairdressing and cookery.
- Continuing with Education, during the counselling sessions, for the school going, they are encouraged to continue with education.
Collaboration is done for the school child to be further assisted through the School Psychological Services (where the case might not have been identified in the school).
As the Ministry of Health and Child Care, we do not have statistics of children in Mental Health Institutions Post Traumatic Syndrome following history of sexual violence. This is appreciated as it calls for a study to find the extent of Post Traumatic Syndrome as related to sexual violence.
PROGRAMMES IN PLACE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE NEED
TO CONTINUOUSLY TAKE ARVS
- 10. HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain to the House what programmes are in place to educate the people on the need to continuously take their ARVs in view of the fact that statistics show that men do not like their medication, a situation that has led to a lot of deaths in the country.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): In general, men seem to present late to health facilities for health services and hence record higher mortality associated with HIV compared to women. Some of the reasons include:
- Men have a very poor health seeking behaviour than women; they present with advanced stages of HIV and hence are more likely to die than women.
- On the other hand; women have more opportunities to interact with health services during pregnancy (antenatal care services) and when they are accompanying their children for immunisation and growth monitoring, they therefore, access services offered at the health facilities much earlier than men.
There are a number of initiatives that the Ministry is pursuing to support people so that they can adhere to their antiretroviral medicines, especially men, pregnant women and adolescent boys.
The following are some of the programmes and communication
related initiatives:
- Within the prevention of mother to child transmission of HIV PMTCT programme, the male mobilisers and male champions who have been recruited and trained to work with men in the communities. This approach uses the peer influence model so that men can influence each other positively. Some of the issues that they target include; encouraging male partners to get tested, especially when the wife is pregnant and or during the lactation period and if he tests positive. When he tests positive,
he is referred for antiretroviral therapy initiation. After initiation, the community based mobilisers actively follow up the men on ART to encourage them to adhere to treatment. They also form support groups and these are very important to assist each other in dealing with issues that they may be facing. The programme has so far shown positive results although it is only in selected districts due to funding limitations. Resources are being mobilised to scale up this particular intervention.
- The second intervention is adherence, counselling and support.
This is offered in the health facilities as part of the package of HIV care and offered by qualified trained and experienced health workers.
- The third thing that we do is wellness workplace based programmes and these are targeting employers and employees who are mostly men to improve their health status.
- The fourth one is outreach teams by health workers from health facilities. These go into the communities together with the
village health workers and this helps in increasing ART initiation and adherence, counselling at community level targeting especially men who otherwise would not seek health care.
- The fifth one is those who are tested through the Voluntary Medical Male Circumcision Programme and found positive are referred for HIV services. The Voluntary Medical Male Circumcision Programme targeting men is an entry point to sexual and reproductive health services.
- The sixth one is men’s health day initiatives. It is a special day set aside to provide comprehensive health services to men. This has been organised by local health facilities and local leaderships. These provide platforms for dialogue with men on health service delivery and to encourage health seeking behaviours among men, including ART adherence. Currently, this initiative is limited due to inadequate resources.
- Finally, special clinics are also being held for men through extending working hours outreach clinics to informal sectors, small scale miners and others to be able to reach them and give them appropriate counselling and ART therapy. I thank you Mr. President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank
you Hon. Minister. I understand that there was a typing error on question 11. The question is by Hon. Sen. Timveos.
PLANS IN PLACE TO SAVE LIVES OWING TO PROHIBITIVE
COSTS OF BLOOD
- SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Health and
Child Care to inform the House what plans are in place to save lives owing to prohibitive costs of buying blood which requires as much as one hundred and twenty dollars ($120,00) a pint.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Mr. President of the Senate. I have question 12, I do not have question 11.
USE OF HERBS ON CURING CANCER AND HIV
- SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House whether herbs can cure cancer and HIV and, if not, to explain why herbs can continue to be sold on the market for such purposes.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Mr. President of the Senate and I
would like to thank very much Hon. Sen. Timveos for this very important question.
There has not been enough evidence from research, from large randomised clinical trials in particular to prove that herbal medicines do cure these two diseases. This does not mean that herbal medicines should not be used by people suffering from these diseases. Some herbs have been known to ameliorate side effects of medicines and symptoms of these diseases and also provide some sort of relief on the part of the patient. The patient feels in charge of their illness and thus brings about a positive outlook to life which may benefit therapeutic outcomes of known remedies for these ailments which they are taking.
The cultural element plays a crucial role in determining what a patient takes. The role of the traditional medicine practitioner in our setting has a large influence in the treatment of these two diseases. These players in the health care system know the plants that may help in alleviating the conditions and thus, collaboration with them and with mainstream health care is crucial to establish evidence-based practices.
The advent of Chinese and Indian supplements on our market has also confounded the problem. These two systems are complex in their ways of diagnosis and treatment, and very much dissimilar to western methods. Traditional Chinese medicine is a much personalised therapeutic intervention method and it is difficult to use the same benchmarks of assessing effectiveness of these herbs in large randomised clinical trials. Patients should visit qualified practitioners before consuming these supplements especially for these two diseases.
Some cancer drugs have been synthesised from plant products and these include the well known
- Vincristine and Vinblastine which are synthesised from the Vinca plant. There is no evidence from the large randomised clinical trials that the plant itself may cure cancer.
- There is also another drug called Paclitaxel which is from the Yew plant. Again, there is no large randomised clinical trial to prove that they cure cancers.
- Others are Topetacan and Etoposide.
In terms of HIV, numerous plants have been used in different societies to boost the immune system of HIV positive patients. In Southern Africa, the African potato and the sutherlandia have been endorsed for their immune boosting capabilities. This is mainly based on in-vitro studies (particularly cell culture) which means inside the patient, which have identified components in them that achieve these properties. The results have not translated to in-vivo studies that play significantly to prove their effectiveness in curing the HIV.
To this effect, the following steps have been taken by my Ministry to assist in terms of traditional medicine. We now have the traditional medicines directorate whose database we are populating so that traditional health practitioners who claim the cure are on that database. We also have a directorate which coordinates operational research and this is really what we want - operational research and biomedical research to validate such claims.
I have already instituted a Complimentary/Traditional Medicines
Research Committee (CTMRC) under the Medical Research Council of Zimbabwe mandated to provide oversight on all research involving herbal medicines and traditional practices. This Committee ensures research involving herbal medicine is conducted using high scientific safety and ethical standards that ensure integrity of data as well as the safety of participants, research staff, the public and the environment.
This platform creates linkages between practitioners of traditional medicine and researchers to validate claims with regards to cure of cancer, HIV/AIDS and other chronic diseases. We are however, careful that the medicines from our traditional healers are going to be patented so that they are not stolen by scientists from outside the country. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you very much Mr.
President. It was so nice listening to the Minister of Health and Child Care on these issues. Minister, are these herbs that are sold in the streets and shops registered? We have Chinese, Malaysian herbs and teas all over; how are they brought into the country, how are they regulated? If there is no scientific research to prove that they are actually effective drugs, how does one allow them into Zimbabwe if we do not have any evidence scientifically that they can heal anything?
Hon. Minister, thank you for the effort that you are making to do more research on our traditional herbs because recently, I found out that
Mukute is called Jamoon and then they give it a botanical nice name and it becomes something very mysterious, researched in New York and India yet we are talking about Mukute. It said to be very good for high blood pressure and diabetes. All I am saying is that unless a herb has some name which is longer, more confusing, then it is not accepted zvikangonzi Mukute then hapana nyaya chivanhu hazvina nebasa. So, I am saying, do you register these herbs?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I would like to thank very much
our chief for asking that pertinent question. It is true that the whole traditional herbs are under a lot of scrutiny now, positively. In fact, our Ministry is really encouraging research. I have seen a lot of such practitioners coming to my office with bags of mushonga saying these heal makumbo, maziso and HIV.
However, it is very difficult to then say let us use them. We have encouraged all those people to say let us do some research work by giving you patients with such problems so that we record the progress which we call operational research taking parameters that, how high is your haemoglobin, your HIV CD4 count. However, we will do operational research but there is the ethical side of it that if a person is
HIV positive, you should give them known ARV’s medication. So, it is a very difficult ethical one, whether to try this on someone who is HIV positive. Then we have those who suffer from cancer, they would have reached a stage where the relatives will say, I will go and try traditional medicine. There is no way that we can say no, we actually encourage that, so we use that and let us see. Some of these medicines are just placed in a water jar without any measurement and stay there for say about two hours and then they drink it, but how much has been extracted of that drug – we do not know.
So, there is a lot of room to do operational research. Moringa is a well known immune booster. If one takes it during tea time instead of using our usual teabags of our choice. So, somebody is actually doing that research on Moringa to be able to validate how much drugs there are, how much to take, can you take it as a pill or a tablet? So, it is important that this research in terms of traditional medicine is respected. What we do not like is for these herbs to be just flown Europe and then come back packed differently and then it becomes foreign to us and we pay exorbitantly. So, we need to also protect our own practitioners.
This issue of the Chinese bringing their herbs, at one time we had tianche which took our country by storm. Roughly, it is an immune booster which has not been seen to cure anything. A lot of the Chinese medicines are taken as complimentary medicines; they come in as complimentary medicine. That is why they escape the scrutiny of the Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe. The MCAZ is trying to make some of these complimentary medicines to be registered. They are saying zvanyanya manje, can we not register anybody who says they have complimentary drugs.
Right Now, there are some who came saying they have sterm cell therapy. We need to scrutinise that because it is going to take us by storm if we are not careful. So, you are quite right chief, that these things need us to sit down and open ourselves to the research. Let us not close our doors but also, let us protect our people. If you are on ARV’s, continue taking them. If you want supplementary, just do that but we will be saying, take ARV medication which are approved to be working so well. So, it is an interesting area which we must scrutinise. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 62.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE SENATE
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President. I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on the Order Paper, be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have disposed of.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD
MARRIAGES
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on SADC Model Law on eradicating Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 21st February, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA), the Senate adjourned at
Twenty-Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 21st February, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 15th February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A ZIPAH MEETING
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that, the
Zimbabwe Parliamentarians on HIV Steering Committee is inviting all ZIPAH Members and those interested in joining the organisation to a meeting on Thursday, 16th February, 2017 at 1200 hours in the Government Caucus Room.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege. Tonight at about midnight the cyclone in the Mozambique channel is going to cross the coast. It is just south of Beira and I am told that by
Friday it will be over Matebeleland South. I am told that up to 400mm of rain can be expected. In South Africa, they have issued a warning to people living in the north-east of South Africa as to what precautions they are to take. Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not know if the Minister responsible is in the House but I would hope that the Government of Zimbabwe would take the necessary technical measures to prepare the people of Matebeleland South for this coming event. I understand that the cyclone will be influential over Zimbabwe for approximately five days. I hope this might not be a repeat of Cyclone Eline but it does merit close observation and careful preparations. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
Hon. Cross was asked to approach the Chair.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. MUPFUMI: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. We have a lot of people in state enterprises such as Hwange Colliery and the National Railways of Zimbabwe who live in compounds in these areas and have not been paid their salaries for some time.
What is Government policy, across the board, with regards to payment of these outstanding salaries?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members, if you start with one language, you must stick to that language until you finish.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir and I am also grateful to Hon. Mupfumi for this question.
These are parastatals that fall under line ministries and they report to those ministries. As the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, we only come in when there are labour issues that have to be resolved unless there is anything else that has to do with the Ministry. If you remember yesterday, I spoke about the problems bedeviling the Hwange Colliery Company and the National Railways of Zimbabwe workers and others including those of ZISCO.
There are other companies that have now gone bankrupt or have shutdown. The workers are in problems because they are not being paid.
We believe there are plans in place whereby the line ministries should render assistance to these parastatals. As the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, we come in where there are social problems regarding these workers because we are supposed to assist people when they are starving or have other social problems – [AN
HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.]
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, the Hon. Member sitting at the back. Please you did not come here in order to make noise, I will recognise you.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Once again, thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I emphasise the fact that as a ministry, we only intervene when we feel there are welfare challenges being faced by these workers such as lack of food or provision of social services.
For example, we assisted the Hwange Colliery Company workers a month or two ago giving them food for sustenance.
HON. P D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, the Hon.
Minister states that they intervene where they see that there is a problem pertaining to the welfare of employees. I am sure it also applies to former employees as well.
We have got an outstanding situation of pensioners who have not received their once-off lump sum payments of their pensions from various ministries, departments and Government parastatals ranging from 2009 going backwards. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that those pensioners who are now wallowing in poverty get their emoluments from Government?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. In
relation to pensions, allow me to focus specifically on NSSA which falls under our purview. You will also appreciate that there are other pensions in Government which do not necessarily fall under our Ministry.
I hope that you realise that due to financial constraints, it is difficult to give lump sum payments as and when people go on pension or are retired but I believe that commitment has been made to pay monthly disbursements which in the short to medium term, should cushion the retrenched and employees who have gone on retirement in the interim. I do understand and appreciate the predicament that when people go on retirement, they expect a lump sum payment and the challenge is really with the financial position that we currently find ourselves in. We hope that it will be attended to as and when the financial situation improves. I thank you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, the Minister stated that there is an arrangement …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, the Hon. Minister.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Sorry, sorry, the Hon. Minister
Matangaidze – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, please address the Chair do not worry.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I do not mind them. The Hon. Minister has actually stated that monthly disbursements have been agreed. Can he clarify to this House in terms of the percentages like what the Hon. Member of Parliament asked that what is the lump sum that they are supposed to be paid? He agreed that they are paying monthly disbursements. Can he clarify on the aspect of the percentages of the monthly disbursements?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not quite follow the question, percentage of what?
HON. MUNENGAMI: Let us say they have a lump sum of $2 000.00 just as an example. Then the Minister, instead of paying the lump sum of $2 000.00 pays monthly disbursements; he did not clarify the specific percentages of those monthly disbursements.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. May I seek the indulgence of the House to come back with the specific percentages related to the amounts being paid. Suffice to say, the minimum that we are disbursing right now is $60 per month but obviously, that will vary with amounts of money owing to individual retirees. My Minister is on record that we appreciate that the $60 per month is not adequate. I would like to think going into the second quarter of this year, we should be able to push those disbursements to a minimum of $100 per month. I thank you.
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question
is going to the Minister of Agriculture. All value chain actors should be empowered to build their capacity leading to the creation of reliable local selling markets of their produce. I do not know what the Government policy is in terms of rolling out this programme to benefit the farmers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(CROPPING) (HON. MARAPIRA): I thank the Hon. Member for the question. As Government, we have a lot of programmes meant for value addition. There are a lot of companies which have been opened up, for instance in cotton production we have companies in Chitungwiza which are there for value addition. We also have companies in Norton for value addition. So, we are actually looking forward for more companies in terms of value addition. I thank you.
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: My question has not been adequately
answered. I am saying I feel all value chain actors in agriculture should be empowered to build their capacity leading to the creation of reliable selling markets of their produce. Now, I do not know what the Government policy is in terms of rolling out this programme to benefit these farmers – [HON. DR. LABODE: There is no money.] – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! We do not have self appointed Ministers here. So, allow the responsible Minister to answer accordingly. Thank you.
HON. MARAPIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I would want to advise the Hon. Member that usually when it comes to value addition, it is under the Ministry of Industry and Commerce – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker Sir, I would want this to be put in writing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. This is why we always say Ministers and Deputy Ministers should always attend Parliament during Question and Answer sessions. The problem which we have just encountered, we do not want to expose our Ministers or Deputy Ministers. I think Hon. Mnangangwa was very clear in her question and the Deputy Minister at first, was also very clear in answering, only to turn later to say no, this does not fall under our
Ministry. That was the first. Then secondly, she has to put it in writing.
So, has he remembered now that the questions fall under a certain
Ministry that he now wants it to be put in writing – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I have listened very carefully to the question from the Hon. Member. It is quite involved as it touches on agriculture and also on the Ministry of Industry and Commerce. So, sometimes it is necessary that the two Ministries coordinate so that a comprehensive answer is given – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. J. TSHUMA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Munengami, please. Can we hear the question please? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Tshuma, the Hon. Member has apologised. Why do you want to hit him further?
HON. J. TSHUMA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. I want to find out what the Government policy is on the issue of teachers that were engaged by your Ministry beginning of Third Term last year, 2016 who have not received a cent of their salaries up to today and yet they are reporting for duty every day. What is the policy of your Ministry towards paying these teachers since they have now worked for more than four months?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I thank the Hon. Member for raising the question. It is a matter that has been exercising the mind of the Ministry, fortunately not alone but together with the employer. So, as I speak, I am aware that the employer and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development are aware that they need to take care of those teachers that have not been paid as indicated in the Hon. Members statement. So, it is an important matter and I am grateful that he shares our concern as well.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. In the absence of
the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, I will direct my question to the deputy. Hon. Speaker, I think you may recall that even during the SONA presentation by the Head of State of Zimbabwe, he bemoaned the absence of a legal framework on the Tripartite Negotiating Forum which is a chamber that brings together all social partners, that is business, Government and labour; so that there is social cohesion which will result in a social contract. When are we likely to see the Minister bringing such kind of a Bill to Parliament?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. If you recall, there is a motion in this House on initiatives that our Ministry is taking and we need to respond to that motion. Only yesterday, I was speaking to Hon. Hlongwane requesting that it be brought back on the Order Paper. I have a detailed response to that and with her indulgence, if I can adequately cover that in a formal presentation next week, I thank you.
HON. MAJAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. Is it Government policy that teachers sign pay sheets every month? Does it mean that the Ministry has no data base?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I thank you Hon. Speaker and
I thank the Hon. Member for asking the question. I want to just recall sometime in 2015 when there was a very difficult moment in our sector when the Public Service Commission did say there were persons that could be described as ghost teachers. Now, the Hon. Member is asking whether it is policy for a person to sign for the pay sheet as they collect their dues. I think we should understand that when we are trying to be accountable and transparent, these kinds of instruments assist us to be clear and dealing with persons who are at a station and who are actually able to sign for their dues. I thank you.
*HON. MAJAYA: Why is it that only teachers are the ones that sign when receiving their pay slips and yet the police force does not have such modus operandi?
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister of Secondary and
Primary Education is not the Minister of Home Affairs, so that question may not arise.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, you are holding a list from the
ZANU PF Chief Whip and equally, the MDC T Chief Whip does give you a list. I do not belong to either party, so how am I accommodated?
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, a list is composed of more than one person. So, the Hon. Member will recall that I have always recognised him and in my absence, my fellow panelists on my right here have recognised the Hon. Member. So, you will be recognised in due course.
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I have realised that you have taken it as conversion that in this Parliament we come to be divided on the basis of parties. You realise that...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Be divided?
HON. CHAMISA: Yes, you are dividing because once you say there is a list from ZANU PF, a list of MDC-T, you are already delving into parties but when you are Speaker, you are Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – In the Constitution, there is nowhere where it is contemplating, even in the rules that you would then divide people on the basis of parties. We may need if you want equity, to perhaps look at rural and urban areas but not on parties. Once you do that, you are actually prejudicing constituencies on the basis of a criterion that is unknown at law.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear you; you have made your point.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you and I am glad you know that it is a correct point. Thank you very much.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear Hon. Chamisa. There is the
question of equity as well and from the right, there have been complaints that some people are not recognised, so I have said those who want to speak, go to your whip and at the same time, on my left they have said we are not recognised. To be equitable, we are not guided by ZANU PF. We are guided by the people who want to speak from either side. So, it is a question really of equity rather than anything else. I thank you. *HON. PARADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am directing my
question to the Deputy Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and
Irrigation Development, we have farmers who are under the Command Agriculture programme who are being tossed around as they are told to go and collect their fertilizers in Harare. When they get to Harare they are again told to go back to their rural areas and get the inputs for their farming season there. What is the solution to this problem because if you continue to toss around people who are supposed to be working in the field that is really painful?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I thought that expression is common
parlance and if you want an explanation it really means people being allowed to come in and go back, come in and go back without getting the service.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE (HON.
MARAPIRA): The inputs availed did not tally with the number of farmers who were in the programme, hence these farmers have been told they are on a waiting list. When more inputs have been imported because we do not have enough in the country, they will be told. I am hoping that within a week or two, the farmers will be advised of the availability of the inputs.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The Minister has told this august House that the inputs are not adequate for the farmers in the programme but what we know is that when the farmers registered in this programme, they were also told the amount of inputs that they would get. Now that these farmers are going to be getting these inputs late when the yield is supposed to be ready for harvest, how are the farmers going to be compensated for this loss in produce?
HON. MARAPIRA: We are all aware of the problem we are
facing in the country and this is a foreign currency problem. If we had enough foreign currency, we would have bought all the inputs required by the farmers.
HON. MAONDERA: Minister, do you agree that this Command
Agriculture programme is now in a sorry state and has not been able to progress as planned. It is now operating in a haphazard manner and this may distort the expected bumper harvest as envisaged by this programme.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The question does not arise.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Health. When women give birth, they are doing a national duty. So, what is Government policy regarding the fact that at each hospital or clinic, there should be a mothers’ waiting shelter to enable the mothers to stay within the hospital premises instead of travelling long distances?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): It is Government policy especially in rural areas where our road networks are very poor and we have few or no ambulances to access these areas, hence expecting mothers have a problem in accessing these facilities. Therefore Government policy is that any hospital with maternity facilities should be having waiting rooms for mothers where these mothers are given accommodation and food. That way, they are able to easily get assistance whenever they are about to give birth. Government policy is that mothers should give birth at health institutions.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: I want to thank the Hon Minister for his response. However, what is happening is that most of the Members in both Houses of Parliament have been supporting the construction of these waiting mothers’ shelters through donations of building materials. Is the Minister aware of what is happening on the ground regarding this programme?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: This is Government policy which started
in the year 2012 that waiting mothers’ shelters should be constructed at most health institutions. This programme started in health development fund districts which were allocated funds to be used in every hospital which deserved it. So, the funds were to be used to build the waiting mothers’ shelter but because of money problems, we are not able to keep up the pace, but as soon as funds are available we will continue with the programme. There are also times where as a Ministry; we ask Members of Parliament and the community to give assistance wherever possible in the construction of these shelters. As a Ministry, we believe that if we construct these shelters, expecting mothers will find it easy to access health facilities.
HON. MUCHENJE: My supplementary question is, in places
where these mothers’ shelters have been constructed, the expecting mothers are expected to pay rentals equivalent to about twenty dollars for the shelter. When they are going to give birth, they have to pay some maternity fee which may go up to seventy dollars. Why should women who are performing a national duty be made to pay and yet we have shelters constructed for them?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. Remember I said it is Government policy that we construct these shelters and nobody should pay for these services. There is a fund which is called HTF and when a mother has given birth at a hospital or clinic, the responsible clinic or hospital should then apply for a refund from the
HTF.
THE HON. SPEAKER: If there are specific cases, can the Ministry be given the list? - [AN HON. MEMBER: I have supplementary question.] - No. We have had enough of supplementary questions.
*HON. CHIKOMBA: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. We are all aware that this year, Zimbabwe is going to have a bumper harvest. We have some chemicals which fight off pests. If we do not have the required pesticides, we are going to lose a very big percentage of our harvest. What is Government’s policy regarding the availability of these chemicals?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(CROPPING) (HON. MARAPIRA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Member for asking a pertinent question on the availability of pesticides. Government has put in place some chemicals which are used in the growing of maize. Whenever there is any excess harvest within the family, it should be sold to Government.
HON. DR. LABODE: My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Welfare. I note with regret that drugs for chronic noncommunicable diseases like diabetes, insulin and cancer drugs are now going out of stock because of lack of foreign currency. What action are you taking to ensure that we will not have a lot of patients dying because they cannot access insulin? A patient on insulin just needs to miss one day to die. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): The issue that the Hon. Member has alluded to is an issue of concern. Yes, we have got shortages of foreign currency. However, we have been assured by Treasury that they are going to prioritise the issue of essential drugs. We have forwarded our list of the essential drugs and we have been promised that foreign currency is going to be availed to procure such medication.
HON. D. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Labour and Social Services. What is the Government’s policy with regards to …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, you are a seasoned Hon.
Member, you address the Chair.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir and
I am sorry about that. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of
Labour and Social Services. May the Minister tell the House the Government Policy in regard to the distribution of the food relief and also to tell this House the role of the police.
I have noticed that in my constituency, the police will be holding paper work and lining up the people. What is their role with regards to food relief distribution?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I recall that I gave a
detailed outline of how the food deficit mitigation programme is implemented. However, I will give you the main features of that to address your question.
The agreed and authenticated list of vulnerable members of our society is kept in offices of the Social Welfare Section. However, the people who come up with that list are community leaders, councilors, DAs and everybody of note in that community. The police are there to maintain discipline and transparency. It is not up to the police to distribute the food. Peculiar circumstances might warrant that at some that the list is handled by the police detail although that is not as per the structure that is outlined.
The list of the people who are on the authenticated register cannot be changed by anybody. The influence of the police is to maintain law and order while food is being distribution. If there are specific examples where the police interfered or even changed the list of beneficiaries, then by all means, we need to intervene and come up with remedial action. In that regard, I will ask the Hon. Member to give me that specific incident and we will respond to that.
HON. D. SIBANDA: I hear the Minister very well but the
Minister should take note that I said I visited my constituency; it was the
ZRP who were holding the list and lining up the beneficiaries. Is it their role? Can the Minister specify; the people want to know. - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I do not think we can belabor that question. The police are there for law and order. If there is a specific situation and an Hon Member becomes aware, you will have to call the Ministry or Provincial Officers and lodge an official complaint for investigations.
+HON. J. MHLANGA: Thank your Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. Whatever was done with the operations of universities and the polytechnics showed that 74% of women students are harassed. There is harassment such as sexual harassment and some of them are even raped by their lecturers and fellow students. We also have non-teaching staff and security guards. They also torture these female students. The main reason why some of these are subjected to such heinous acts is because they need to be supplied with food, higher marks and accommodation.
What is Government policy regarding the protection of the girl child so that the perpetrators of such heinous crimes are convicted and put behind bars and the girl child is protected?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATIONS, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GANDAWA): I thank the Hon.
Member for her question, but I wish to respond to her in English so that I can get to respond to each and every detail that she spoke about.
I hear what the Hon. Member has said with regards to abuse of female students who are in our tertiary institutions, be it polytechnics, universities or teachers’ colleges, especially with regards to male lecturers, who she alleges want sexual favours from students so that they award them higher marks.
As a Ministry, we do not condone such kind of behaviour and should we get to know the lecturers who are involved in that, they will be disciplined, but suffice to say that we actually have started to implement a sexual abuse and harassment policy in all our tertiary institutions, so that we curb against the practice. You will also note, Hon. Member, that in tertiary institutions, most of the students that we have there are above 18 years and sometimes they consent.
We are somehow restricted as per the policy that we are going to put up so that we tend to curb against the abuse if these people are not in a relationship. However, in most cases, we will have problems in some instances where the student says they are mature and can get into a relationship, but we have taken note of the problem that is happening in our institutions of higher learning and we are very sure, we are actually now in the process of realigning all our university Acts to the
Constitution and this matter has been brought up in all the consultations that we have done.
We have gone across all our 46 institutions and this issue was very pertinent. It came out everywhere where we addressed students and we are seized with the matter. Very soon, we are going to bring that sexual harassment policy to this august House. Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker Sir.
HON. MAZIWISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. In the absence of the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, I will direct my question to the Deputy Minister.
Hon. Minister, we have seen in the recent past, the last few weeks to be precise, very good progressive and collaborative work between the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development and the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, to try and fill up our potholes which were there before the initiative, but which had been made worse by the rains that have fallen; which is very good work. But Hon. Minister, considering the fact that the responsibility to construct, maintain and rehabilitate our local roads lies naturally, if not exclusively, within the purview of our local authorities, which local authorities quite clearly have abdicated their responsibilities - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your question?
HON. MAZIWISA: What is the Ministry of Local Government,
Public Works and National Housing doing to make sure that those local authorities are brought to book, they are held to account and in deserving circumstances, dismissed from their jobs?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you very much, Hon. Member, for that question. Hon. Speaker, the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, in the first place and I am sure recently, in trying to do something about it, it has declared that problem as a national disaster, thereby making it possible - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can the Hon. Deputy Minister be heard in silence please, otherwise I cannot rule whether he is answering the question or not.
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister has not finished.
Can the Hon. Minister first finish and then you can ask.
HON. CHAMISA: It is on a point of procedure.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can we hear the procedural matter?
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, we are not yet dealing with written questions and written answers. The Minister has got a written answer which is definitely out of procedure. These are oral questions -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Sibanda, when I have called you to order, you must listen. The Hon. Minister can refer to some notes, but not a written speech.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Hon. Speaker- [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Indeed we have a problem in our local authorities as far as roads are concerned, with special reference to potholes but I want to quickly say our local authorities are trying their best in trying to remedy the situation. The problem which is being faced by our local authorities – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. CHINGOSHO: The problem which is being faced by our
local authorities is because of the excessive rains. The other problem is that our road infrastructure is old. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. On my right and on my
left, can we listen to the Hon. Minister?
HON. CHINGOSHO: Of course, the problem as you are all aware is lack of funds. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order Hon. Munengami.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Hon. Speaker, – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Inaudible interjection.]- the other problem that is being faced by our local authorities with respect to potholes is that when you try to fill in the potholes with these excessive rains, they make the potholes worse.
This means mending a pothole is like keeping on patching a cloth which is already torn. What we need in our local authorities is new roads altogether. However, we have had some instances where some local authorities …
Hon. Mliswa having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Take your seat Hon.
Mliswa. Hon. Matangira and Hon. Munegami, if you persist, you will be out of the House. Thank you. Can you wind up Hon. Minister?
HON. CHINGOSHO: However, we have had some few instances
where those few resources have been misappropriated. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Maziwisa, why point of order and what is the problem now?
HON. MAZIWISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have got a supplementary question. I want to know, when the Hon. Deputy Minister makes reference to the fact that the local authorities are doing their best; which local authorities he is referring to given that the ineptitude, ineffectiveness and corrupt tendencies of these local authorities are a matter of public record.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The making of a general statement by the Hon. Deputy Minister is appreciated. If you come from any part of the country, you will find that the question of potholes affects virtually all local authorities. So, the Hon. Minister is correct in that sense.
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Deputy Minister for being honest. He is an honest man and I think he is a man deserving to be promoted to be the Minister of Local Government. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I hope I will not get a statement to the effect that Hon. Deputy Ministers cannot perform as you have affirmed it today.
*HON. SITHOLE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. The Deputy Minister has stated that some of the problems which caused nonrepairing of these potholes is because of finance. We have been told that Chitungwiza roads need an amount of US$9 million to repair the potholes but at the same time, we are going to hold a birthday bash for His Excellency, the President using an amount of US$9 million. Is it not possible for Government to divert the funds for the birthday party to the repair of the Chitungwiza roads?
Hon. Bhebhe having stood up to ask a question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Bhebhe. The birthday bash is
not being held in Chitungwiza. - [Laughter.] -
HON. BHEBHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs in the absence of the Minister of Home Affairs ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not worry about the absence. He is
there, direct the question to him.
HON. BHEBHE: I am worried Mr. Speaker, because I have deferred this question for three weeks.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not pre-judge him. Let him answer.
Ask the question.
HON. BHEBHE: The question pertains to the issue that worries every motorist in Zimbabwe. Is it Government policy that when police go to roadblocks, they are given a target to meet on daily basis? If so, on the affirmative or in disagreement, on both instances I have a supplementary question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your question Hon. Member?
HON. BHEBHE: Is it Government policy that every time when police officers are going on roadblocks, they are given a target to meet in terms of collections?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The question has been coming through Parliament and we have been giving the answers. I think I can clarify where the word target comes from. There is a key performance indicator in any worker where each police officer must have target on how many small vehicles they have searched, how many trucks they have searched and how many buses. It is not related to the revenue but to see that they are working, otherwise they will stand under the trees – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Therefore, on key performance indicators, we have targets and on revenue, we do not know because all cars may comply and there is no revenue collected. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. BHEBHE: Mr. Speaker, the issue of performance has got nothing to do with the targets of revenue collected by the police –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The Hon. Deputy Minister has disabused the issue of target on money collected. It is the number of vehicles that are being searched, that is the target. So, the question does not arise.
Hon. Members having stood up
Order, order. When the Chair is giving a ruling, you do not stand up. The Hon. Deputy Minister explained clearly that there are no targets search for money collected. What is said is the number of vehicles that have been searched by the police in charge at that particular roadblock. That is the issue.
HON. BHEBHE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker, this is a very pertinent question that I am asking.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Would you clarify the question rather than asking the point of order.
HON. BHEBHE: I am asking this question because when the police go out on roadblocks, they are supposed to issue tickets because it is not everyone who drives around a vehicle who carries money or has money in his bank account. You would find that the police do not issue out tickets but they demand to an extent of threatening people to go to police stations and open dockets. Hence, I am asking the issue of the targets that arise because if you do not meet the target, it means you are going to coerce or force people to pay spot fines. This is why I am asking the issue of targets. That is the clarity we want because people out there are going to charge us by the questions we ask and the responses we give.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have heard you and there are two issues here. If there is that demand on the spot, the concerned citizen should quickly phone the Police Headquarters so that the officer who is demanding is brought to book.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. If you notice, right now as you move around on the roads, police officers carry spikes which they throw under people’s vehicles. I would like the Hon. Minister to clarify which law and policy they follow as they use these spikes. There are many people who have lost lives because of this.
I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sorry Hon. Member, I did not quite get your question.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I
asked the Hon. Minister of Home Affairs on the issue of the police officers who move around with items which damage vehicles’ wheels which in English are referred to as ‘spikes’. They throw them under vehicles any time they feel like. I want the Hon. Minister to clarify which law and policy they follow in order for them to throw these spikes, perhaps we could understand.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Where is the supplementary question going to because the original question was about targeted collection and not spikes?
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Health and Child Care on Government policy pertaining to mortuaries. If he recalls, they came to Norton Hospital just before the elections and promised people that they were going to refurbish the mortuary. I would like to know whether it is Government policy or just a political statement because the mortuary has still not been fixed. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order that is a specific question about a mortuary in Norton. So that question should arise out of a written question – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] – I have ruled. It is a specific issue relating to a mortuary in Norton, so it cannot be a policy issue.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Hon.
Speaker, I would like to repeat my question and direct it to the Minister of Home Affairs. I would like him to …
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member, I did not
say you should repeat the question. I said if it is a new question then direct it to the Hon. Minister.
+ HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I direct my new
question to the Minister of Home Affairs. I would like him to clarify to us on the issue of police officers who move around carrying piercing metal objects which are called ‘spikes’, in English that they throw under vehicles. We realise that this has become a problem so many times. I would like the Minister to clarify to the House which law or policy the police use to throw these objects? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I wish to state that police officers do not throw spikes under any car that is moving around because I heard the Hon. Member saying that they throw spikes under vehicles. No, they do not throw under any car.
The police officers have many and varied ways, using their Act, which they use in order to stop criminals. For example, a gunshot can be fired in the air – just one bullet. It can also happen that in the Act it was specified that a warning shot can be fired in the air in order to stop a criminal. That is an operation that is done in order to stop criminal activities that happen in this country. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Misihairabwi-
Mushonga, I would like to apologise and state that the time for Oral Answers to Questions has elapsed. We will therefore continue next
week. – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Hon.
Speaker.] – Order, order you should first extend the time Hon. Member.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I
move that the time for Oral Answers to Questions Without Notice be extended by ten minutes.
Hon. K. Sibanda having passed between the Hon. Member speaking and the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. K. Sibanda, you may
not cross between the speaker and the Chair. Please go back. Hon.
Member, you may continue.
+ HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My supplementary
question to the Hon. Minister of Home Affairs is, if you look at the
Criminal Codification Act, Section 38 (a). It states that, ‘Anyone who throws… I will put it in English.
“Anyone who throws, propels any missile, article or thing on any person, motor vehicle, boat, aircraft or building with the intention or realizing that there is a real risk or possibility of causing damage or injury”.
+So it is actually a criminal offence in the Criminal Codification Act. Are you saying that the police are allowed to do things that are unlawful because it is specified in the Criminal Codification Act? I thank you.
+HON. O. MGUNI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I also want to thank the Hon. Member of Parliament for clarifying on the specified law. I would like to also go back and consult with those at the Ministry of Home Affairs who know about the law so that it can be clarified to me whether police officers who are on duty are classified as a person or as officers so that we know how this law is used. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: My question is directed to the Hon. Deputy
Minister for Home Affairs. I would like to ask through you Madam Speaker, whether the Commissioner General of Police has presented to the Ministry, an annual report in terms of Section 13 of the Police Act that details offences investigated in the previous year as well as instructions from the Attorney-General, to investigate as well as directives by the Minister. This must be done as soon as possible or after the 31st … – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members
over there. The Minister is listening so that he understands the question in order for him to be able to answer but you are making a lot of noise. Have you heard the question Hon. Minister? – [HON. O. MGUNI: Yes, Madam Speaker.] – Hon. Member, you may proceed.
HON. MAJOME: The question is, has the Commissioner-
General of Police presented to the Hon. Minister an annual report as envisaged by Section 13 of the Police Act, which requires that as soon as possible after the 31st December each year, the Commissioner General must present a report to the Minister that details the activities of the police in the preceding year, as well as instructions from the Attorney
General to investigate issues and any policy directives. Has the Commissioner General received that report?
HON. MGUNI: That is actually a very pertinent question of which I must admit that it was not done exactly after the 31st as she said but I happened to see the report which was given to Dr. Chombo who went to present it to Cabinet. So, I saw it. I am 100% …
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga having passed between the Chair and the Hon. Member speaking.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga.
HON. MGUNI: I am aware that yesterday Cabinet did receive that report because they wanted to hear about it, Hon. Member. Thank you. HON. MAJOME: Why is it that in this whole Eighth Parliament, no report has ever been presented to Parliament? No such report has ever been presented to this august House in terms of Section 13. Why has that never been done and when can we expect to see that report because it is already the 15th February and the Act says as soon as possible, after the
31st December?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. That is a very
truthful articulation that she has made. I will make sure that it is brought. In fact I saw it being given to Dr. Chombo to present to Cabinet. I will inform him, he is my colleague, to say can we go to Parliament and present it. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Health and Child Care. Minister, what is Government policy regarding the provision sunscreen lotion for people living with albinism through your Ministry?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): I want to thank Hon. Mangami for asking that question. However, we do not have a definite policy on that since we normally deal with ill patients. Albinism is a condition that people can live with at home. In that case they buy their own creams. Those who really can afford will then have to buy the cream but if they are patients, then we provide the cream. Thank you.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: The Hon. Minister is indicating that Government has got no policy but my view is that the condition of albinism affects the health of an individual and in terms of our
Constitution; health is a right and not a privilege. Is the Hon. Deputy Minister therefore telling us that Government has got no policy that supports a constitutional provision?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to
clarify my earlier answer. I said if the patient is in hospital we will try to provide the sun creams. However, if they are living in their homes, it would be very difficult to know how many they are and where they are. At the moment, truly speaking, we do not have a policy as to the provision of the creams.
HON. KHUPE: On a related matter Hon. Minister, I saw an albino cancer patient who is really in bad shape. He went to a hospital and was turned away because he could not pay $250. What is Government policy in regard to people who are not employed, are albinos and do not have money to pay when they go to a hospital, are in a bad state and they cannot be attended to?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: This indeed is a particular incident.
However, Government’s policy does not preclude people from getting emergency treatment. It is their right as expressed by the Hon. Member.
If we have such specific incidents, it is very important for us in the Ministry to know because there are centres that are specialised for cancer patients where these patients can actually get assistance.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
STATE OF CHINEMBIRI TO CHITUNGWIZA TOWN CENTRE
ROAD
- HON. G. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to inform to the House what the condition of the road from Chinembiri in ward 21 to Chitungwiza town centre is like.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Let me thank Hon. Sithole for asking the question.
Madam Speaker, let me inform this House that the condition of Chinembiri Road, like many other roads in Chitungwiza is in very bad shape. It is so bad that routine maintenance may not still be possible.
Repair of the same is planned for 2018 as Chitungwiza Municipality is currently prioritising and working on re-sealing its arterial roads which link to Chitungwiza and Harare. Let me inform this august House that Chitungwiza Municipality will be carrying out periodic maintenance in the following order.
- Arterial roads which facilitate transportation of the public and commercial goods.
- Collector roads which link Chitungwiza suburbs with arterial roads right down until we get to street access roads.
CHANGE OF HOUSE OWNERSHIP IN UNIT O CHITUNGWIZA
- HON. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to inform the House why house number 33522 in Unit O in Chitungwiza changed ownership from Mary
Chakanetsa, the initial owner who bought the stand in 2010 to Beauty Mushamba without the knowledge of the initial owner.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Madam Speaker Sir, I would like to start by thanking the Hon. Member for asking the question. Fortunately my Ministry is also currently seized with this issue. However, let me inform this august House that in the billing system of Chitungwiza Municipality, Mary Chanetsa appears to have lost the property, but on the ground she has ownership of the property. This was a result of a fraudulent transaction done by the then Acting Director of Housing and Community Services of Chitungwiza Municipality who has allocated to Beauty Mashava a stand on a non developable piece of land. He went further to unlawfully instruct the Information Technology Section (IT) to register that undevelopable stand with the number 33552 owned by Mary Chanetsa.
Having gone through the internal audit report by the Chitungwiza Municipality, the Ministry has since directed that the fraudulent transaction be reversed with the necessary reimbursements.
*HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker, today I have
spoken to Mary Chanetsa but we have been told that she is not allowed access into that property. This means that there is some misunderstanding because local authorities are saying one thing and the Minister is saying another.
*HON. CHINGOSHO: I thank Hon. Sithole for the
supplementary question. As far as we are concerned, I am hearing this information for the first time. If the owner is being denied access to the stand we will note it down and make a follow up on what really is happening on the ground because it is different from the instructions issued.
*HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Deputy Minister for the
response you have given. Is it not possible for the Ministry when you look at the case we have dealt with? It is just a tip of the iceberg and it shows there are so many cases whereby the corrupt authorities are double allocating these stands. May you please direct all local authorities to give that to all the officials responsible for transferring properties in a unlawful manner. These officials will then be prosecuted because we have many people who have their properties changed ownership without their knowledge. There are people who have been ejected from their rightful home by the new owner and therefore I think there should be some direction put in place.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I understand people were
robbed of their properties by these corrupt local authorities. I do not think it is possible for the Ministry to go door by door and ask whether the owners were robbed of their houses. I advise that all the people who are facing this problem report to the Ministry so that the problem can be solved.
*HON. MARIDADI: My request is that circulars or directive
from the ministries should be sent to local authorities, directing the local authorities that if ever there is any change of names on property ownership; there should be some steps which have to be followed because we realise that there are some people who suddenly found themselves without a home and these transactions are done corruptly. In most cases it is widows and orphans who suffer. Can we have this blanket circular which will protect these vulnerable groups of people? *HON. ZVIDZAI: My question is generally these corrupt
activities are associated with officials as in this particular case. In many cases the Councils want to act on the staff but the Ministry interferes and stops the councilors from acting appropriately. We have got examples of Harare, what is the Ministry going to do? I have just heard that they are dealing with the issue of reimbursement. What is going to happen in the case of these wrong doing directors? What sanctions are going to be applied to the director?
HON. CHINGOSHO: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for
the question. In the first place the Ministry does not condone corruption. So, the steps which the Ministry is going to take on those corrupt officers if identified - some of them have been suspended because of that. The question of saying that the Ministry is trying to interfere with the Councils, I think that is a very unfortunate situation. I thank you very much.
UTILIZATION OF THE FUNDS COLLECTED FROM PARKING
SHOP LICENCING AND RANK FEES
- HON. PASSADE asked the Minister of Local Government,
Public Works and National Housing to inform the House how the Harare City Council has been utilising the funds collected from parking, shop licencing and rank fees.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Let me inform this august House that parking fees are no longer collected by the City’s Mainstream processes, but City’s
Parking, a Private company wholly owned by City of Harare through
Harare Sunshine Holdings, which runs all the city’s businesses. The
City Council received a dividend amounting to $480,000 in 2016 from Harare Sunshine Holdings and the dividend went towards the repair and maintenance of roads.
- Rank Fees
The City Council collected $1,329,177 rank fees in 2016 and again channeled the funds towards the repair and maintenance of roads. The following were the targeted roads for the total overlay using proceeds from the parking and rank fees;
- High Glen Road overlay
- Churchill Road full overlay
- Chizhanje Road overlay
- Harare Road (siyaso) overlay
- Road patching around the city
However, the amounts fall short of the total required to rehabilitate
Harare’s road network of 5,000km.
- Shop licence Fees
The City collected $4,700,123 by way of shop licencing fees in
2016 and paid salaries and other operating expenses such as fuel, stationery and hire charges from the proceeds.
CONSTRUCTION OF A COLLEGE IN KADOMA
- HON. PHIRI asked the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development to state the plans that are in place to construct a college in Kadoma.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): The establishment of a tertiary institution in Mashonaland West Province is an absolute necessity that is long overdue. The college does not necessarily have to be built in Kadoma. Mashonaland West Province leadership must decide where it should be situated. It should be noted that my Ministry intends to establish three tertiary institutions in the province, which are a polytechnic, teachers’ college and an industrial training centre as per its 2005 Strategic Plan of having a university, teachers’ college and a polytechnic in each province. Government is to be commended for fulfilling this plan as far as universities are concerned. Each province now has a State university but Government still has to meet its obligation to establish teachers’ colleges and polytechnics in Mashonaland west, Matabeleland North and Mashonaland Central too which does not have a polytechnic.
Let me give the Hon. Member the background to the proposed Kadoma College. In fact, it was supposed to be a polytechnic and was to be called the Mashonaland West Polytechnic. Possible sites then in 2012, were Kadoma Town Council and Ngezi Rural District Council but these have since been overtaken by events. The Ministry had identified Trelawney Training Centre as a temporary site to kick start the project because of the already existing physical infrastructure. There was need for Treasury support to finance capital projects at this proposed temporary site. Due to tight fiscal space, this has not been possible in the short term. To date, the province must identify and avail suitable land for the establishment of the Polytechnic, a Teacher’s College and an Industrial Training College. The Ministry encourages the
Mashonaland West Province leadership to expedite the provision of the land for the establishment of the three tertiary institutions. Should Kadoma be one of the sites that the Mashonaland leadership chooses for one of these institutions, then the Ministry will establish it there.
HON. ZVIDZAI: On a point of order Madam Speaker, the
Minister has repeatedly referred to Mashonaland West leadership which must decide where to place the tertiary institutions. Which leadership is he talking about?
HON. DR. GANDAWA: The leadership pertains to the Hon.
Members and the Minister of State for Provincial Affairs for
Mashonaland West who is actually seized with the matter as we speak.
POLICY ON CORRUPT OFFICERS
- HON. CHIKUNI asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House what the Government policy is on corrupt officers who are transferred to other stations whenever they commit a crime and their whereabouts are not disclosed when follow up action is made.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GANDAWA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF HOME
AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker, Hon. Members;
I would like to get more details on the matter as it sounds sensitive and very particular indeed in this august House. The police officers who are found to have engaged in corrupt activities are not transferred, but are dismissed immediately from service. In addition to the dismissal, criminal charges of corruption are laid against the officers and due processes of court proceedings are commenced immediately. This is the reason why our courts are also clogged with cases of dismissed exofficers who are always taking the Commissioner General of Police to court in their fruitless attempt to challenge their lawful dismissal. The Hon. Member and this august House should not be misled by what we read in the media.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as for the transfer of police officers from Beitbridge to other stations, may I bring to the attention of the House and the Hon. Member that the police officers were not transferred for engaging in corrupt activities. The transfers were originating from a Government policy that all staff from Government Departments at Beitbridge and other national key points should be rotated to other stations. These departments include the Police, ZIMRA, Immigration and Zimbabwe National Army. The Zimbabwe Republic Police was the first department to comply with the Government policy. Let me reiterate that this has nothing to do with corruption allegations, it is a policy issue.
The latter part of the Hon. Member’s question must have more clarity as we need to attend if there are such cases of our officers who try to evade the rule of law. As the Minister of Home Affairs, it is important for me to dispel once and for all the misdirected notion that police officers who were previously at ZRP Beitbridge were transferred for corruption, no. This was a result of a Government policy which is for everyone. May the Hon. Member be well informed in this regard accordingly? I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A MEETING AT POLICE HEADQUARTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I would like to inform all members of the Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructural
Development that they are invited to a meeting to be held tomorrow, 16th February 2017, at the Police General Headquarters at 10 o’clock to discuss the implementation of the electronic traffic management system.
STATUS OF REGISTRY OFFICES IN BULAWAYO AND
MATEBELELAND NORTH PROVINCE
- HON. M. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Home Affairs
- To explain to the House when the Provincial Registry and
Passport Official relocated from Mhlahlandlela complex in
Bulawayo Province to Lupane Provincial Offices in
Matebeleland North Province.
- To inform the House when Jotsholo Registry Offices would be electrified since the grid is a few metres away from the offices.
- To inform the House when the Ministry would establish additional sub registry offices at Zewal and Dandanda areas.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF HOME
AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO): Mr. Speaker Sir, Matebeleland
North Provincial Registry Office is currently located at Old Income Tax
Building and not Mhlahlandlela Complex. The Provincial Registry for
Lupane has started relocating to the new Government Complex in Lupane. The department is currently in the process of computerising the offices. On completion of the computerisation of the Provincial Offices, the department intends to install the passport system online. Once the passport system is online, then the Passport offices at this Government Complex will be ready to issue out passports to the public.
However, we have been informed by the Ministry of Local Government that we may face challenges regarding accommodation for our Provincial Passport officers at Lupane which will naturally affect the opening of the offices to the public.
Madam Speaker, Jotsholo offices are being leased from the Kusile District Council. The Council will be approached to provide electricity to the building. We are made to understand that the Japanese Embassy which had renovated the building had made an undertaking to have electricity connected. However, to date, they have not yet done so. We have made a request to the local authority for electricity to be connected.
Madam Speaker, the establishment of sub-offices is the responsibility of the Public Service Commission. The Government has since directed that there will be no creation of new posts due to the current financial challenges facing the country. I thank you.
ILLEGAL SETTLERS IN CHIMANIMANI
- HON. CHIKUNI asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to inform the House how far the Ministry has gone in addressing the issue of illegal settlers especially in Chimanimani where they are responsible for veld fires which have destroyed vast plantations this season.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Manicaland Provincial
Lands Committee (PLC) held a meeting with the plantation companies to map a way forward on the issue of illegal settlers. The traditional Chiefs proposed that the companies must cede land for formal settlement. They suggested that the resettled people will provide labour and help in fire management. The proposal is still under consideration by the companies especially Border Timbers.
On the other hand, traditional Chiefs are claiming traditional land rights of the area and do not consider their people as illegal settlers. The Chiefs also want to benefit from activities by the companies through employment and provision of services in the area such as schools and clinics.
On privately owned land, for example Thornton which is owned by Border Timbers, the company applied for eviction of illegal settlers at the courts and the eviction orders were granted.
Allied Timbers Company is being affected by illegal gold panners and was advised to seek eviction order from the courts. I thank you.
HON. CROSS: The situation in the plantation industry is extremely serious. We have 60 000 hectares of mature pine in Zimbabwe, which is very small and thousands of hectares have been destroyed by illegal occupation, fires set by settlers and illegal gold panning. When is the Ministry going to get tough on this issue because if they are not, I am afraid we must say goodbye to this entire sector?
HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think that I have alluded that we give the company the authority. Whenever we give someone a paper which is authentic which enables him or her or a company to contest in a court of law, he is the one who is supposed to do that work so that he can evict those people. That is why the company went to the courts and was granted an eviction order.
According to the Ministry, we have Committees from the district and the province. Those people are the ones who are dealing with the situation. That is why we said the PLC held a meeting with the companies and they agreed on a certain issue. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I heard the Hon. Minister speaking about issues of illegal settlers being dealt with by the PLC. I just wanted to know who comprises the PLC because we have also got similar challenges in our provinces. Thank you.
HON. CHIKWAMA: I did not say the PLC is the one dealing with the illegal settlers. I said on the situation of Chimanimani, they held a meeting together in order to come up with the way forward in solving the issue of the illegal settlers.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Who comprises the PLC?
HON. CHIKWAMA: The PLC comprises of the following
people; the Provincial Minister of Affairs who is the Chair, all the heads of department of that province are also involved, the JOC and chiefs are also members of the PLC. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you mean all chiefs of
that particular province or chiefs of that particular area?
HON. CHIKWAMA: Chiefs of the whole province have two or more representatives who are going to sit on the Provincial Lands Committee, while the other chiefs in the districts also have representatives in the District Lands Committee.
*HON. ZVIDZAI: As far as we are concerned, these plantations in the Eastern Highlands were given material for the production of paper in the mills in Chimanimani. We also used to manufacture matches, but we are now importing matches from China. Now, since you have started allowing the courts and the police to evict people as they are illegal settlers, are these plantations now growing in such a way that industry may be resuscitated to its former height?
*HON. CHIKWAMA: I was actually talking about the timber plantations as enquired by Hon. Chikuni. When we are talking about illegal settlers in these plantations, people should be settled after they have received letters which empower them to be in those places.
So, we are saying, in the case of Chimanimani, we have chiefs in those areas, who are protecting these illegal settlers. They are claiming that the forefathers of these people were evicted from these areas by the settlers, but at the same time, their subjects and children are benefiting by getting employment in those plantations. Therefore, you cannot have your cake and eat it. Consequently, the courts and the police have been empowered to follow legal procedures in evicting these illegal settlers.
We know there are some plantation and factories which have continued to operate despite all these problems and again, we are talking about one district which is faced by these illegal settlers.
CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW DISTRICT HOSPITAL AND
COMPLETION OF LUPANE UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL
- HON. M. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Health and Child
Care:
- To inform the House when the new District Hospital would be constructed in the Lupane District in view of the fact that Jotsholo Growth Point has been designated the new district headquarters for Lupane District.
- To inform the House when Lupane Provincial University Hospital would be completed, considering that its construction has been going on for the past ten years, a situation that has seen some criminal elements vandalising the infrastructure at the new hospital
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Khumalo for asking that question. At the moment, Lupane District has no Government hospital. As already has been said, Jotsholo has been designated as the new growth point for the district. We have received plans and a request for the construction of such a hospital.
However, we have not received land for the construction of the hospital. So at the moment, we are in consultation with the relevant district hospital.
The second part of his question was, he wanted to find out when the Lupane Provincial University Hospital is going to be constructed because it has been in the offing for the past ten years.
HON. M. KHUMALO: Correction, Mr. Speaker, they made a
mistake. There is no university there. It is a provincial hospital. That university is out.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I also at the point was trying to correct that impression. Although the university is constructed next to the hospital, the hospital at Lupane is going to be the provincial hospital for Matabeleland North because at the moment, we are using a designated hospital which is a Catholic Mission Hospital.
He wanted to find out when the construction is going to be completed. We are, at the moment, at the site. What happened was, we had run out of funds with the initial project which was Government run. However, we have now secured funds from a Chinese programme known as FOCAC and US$55 million has been afforded for the construction of the provincial hospital for Matabeleland North at Lupane. We have actually retained the last contractor who is on site updating plans and we will update the House as the work progresses. I thank you.
HON. M. KHUMALO: Can I make a follow up Hon. Speaker, on the two questions, the new district hospital because we do not have a district hospital. If you look at the 2017 budget, the Ministry has again allocated St. Luke’s which is a mission hospital with funds to do some construction at the privately owned hospital. Whilst the Minister says they are looking at the plans for a new district hospital, why is the Ministry allocating funds to the Catholic hospital? [AN HON.
MEMBER: What is wrong?]- Hon. Speaker, we have been using that Catholic hospital as a district provincial hospital, but the relations between the Government system and that private hospital are not good. They want to be independent and that hospital is becoming poorer and poorer because of the involvement of Government activities. Why do you not stick to the Government hospital at Jotsholo and the provincial hospital in Lupane?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to
thank the Hon. Member for the concern he has raised. It is true that the relations between the Ministry of Health per se and the particular hospital is not very good. It is for that reason why we are moving expeditiously to provide a purely Government hospital for Matabeleland North. However, at the moment, I have said we have secured funds to construct the hospital, but in the mean time, the people of Matabeleland North must have a service. Before this hospital is completed, we are obligated to support the current designated hospital because it is a Government aided institution. We are going to move as expeditiously as possible for them to have a purely Government hospital, but in the mean time, our hands are tied. We support the current structure so that the people of Matabeleland North will have the facility. Thank you.
SOURCING OF DONATIONS FOR MAINTENANCE OF THE
DAMAGED LAUNDRY MACHINE AT INGUTSHENI HOSPITAL
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care whether it is procedural for the Ingutsheni Chief Executive Officer to source donations from the staff for the maintenance of the damaged laundry machine at the Hospital.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker and I want to thank Hon. Masuku. Ingutsheni Central Hospital has old but sometimes malfunctioning laundry equipment which frequently breaks down...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It seems you are answering a wrong question Hon. Minister. You are answering Question Number 26
instead of Question Number 25.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Is it the one about donations at
Ingutsheni? I am sorry they have been given in this order. The answer to that one is that it is never Government policy and it is not procedural. However, what has been happening is that Ingutsheni has got an old and sometimes malfunctioning laundry machine and we have prioritised the procurement of a new laundry machine during this year. We have allocated about US$250 000 for its infrastructure development at Ingutsheni and from that, we are going to procure a new laundry machine. However, I want to reiterate that it is not procedural. What I have found out on the ground was an ordinary SOS for cash or kind had been sent out by the CEO and I am not sure whether the staff at the hospital chipped in. Thank you.
LAUNDRY MACHINE FOR INGUTSHENI HOSPITAL
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain to the House why Ingutsheni Hospital does not have a laundry machine and to state what alternatives the hospital has for its laundry requirements.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): I said Ingutsheni has got old equipment and this old equipment is very difficult to service at the moment. Ingutsheni Hospital being a mental institution, does not generate any funds. So, most of the time when we have got funds we prioritise funds for
Ingutsheni and Ngomahuru. So, during this year’s budget, we have allocated US$250 000 for its infrastructure development and we have agreed that they are going to procure a new laundry machine for Ingutsheni. Thank you.
HON. MASUKU: On a point of order, the question is not fully answered. The last part of the question was not answered.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Hon. Deputy
Minister, can you please clarify.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you very much. He wanted to find out the alternatives. At the moment, when the laundry equipment is down, we have been speaking to Mpilo so that some of their laundry can be done at Mpilo. I want to assure this House that it is not a permanent arrangement. We would want a situation where Ingutsheni could stand on its own.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much. Hon. Minister, the Hon. Member was asking about alternatives. There are big washing machines and driers at UBH which we acquired during the inclusive Government and they were under my purview. Why can you not utilise those washing machines and driers for Ingutsheni as well because the machines are already there. The room is there and they are massive. They can service the whole of Bulawayo.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for that information. We would want to look at that situation and see whether we can utilise that facility. Thank you very much.
HON. MUSANHI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to find out from the Hon. Minister whether the same hospital in question does not have food for the patients?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for that follow up question. As I said, we have got challenges at Ingutsheni because the nature of mental institutions is such that they do not generate funds for themselves. However, we prioritise funds when they are available. At the moment, they have enough food. When we did not have enough in our coffers, at some point we approached the Ministry of Labour and Social Services and they provided us with food items that included about 15 tonnes of maize, three tonnes of rice and 1 200 litres of cooking oil for Ingutsheni.
They also provided 35 tonnes of maize meal for Ngomahuru, 2 tonnes of rice and 600 litres of cooking oil. They have also provided soap about 350 boxes and cooking oil. Last month, I provided 200 boxes each of canned beans for the two institutions and at the moment they have got adequate food. I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Could the Minister also tell us, having said that they have sufficient food, is he aware of the fact that the staff at Ingutsheni put out an appeal in the Bulawayo public fora and a lot of food was provided. Is he aware of that...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Can
the Hon. Member be heard in silence. I think the Minister wants to respond to the question. Hon. Members from my right side, please.
HON. WATSON: I think it is of concern to the Bulawayo community that they are providing food to an institution which may or may not need food. What they also provided, which while you are considering your options about washing machines, is repairs to a vehicle
– because they have no working vehicle at Ingutsheni. What is the Ministry doing about shortage of drugs at that particular mental institution? Thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for her concern for Ingutsheni. Like I said in my earlier answer, because of our resource constraints, we priorities Ingutsheni but we have been honest to say, any well-wishers can come in and assist us in provision of either food items and clothing for Ingutsheni. I want to thank the Bulawayo community, they have responded and assisted us. We have received food items from shops like Pick n Pay and Choppies for Engutsheni.
Thank you for that assistance. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. SITHOLE: The admission by the Deputy Minister that the Government institution is now surviving on well-wishers, is it an acknowledgement that the Ministry has failed to fulfil its constitutional mandate to provide basic food to the patients?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to dispute what the Hon. Member has just said. In actual fact, we say we have got resource constraints, which means that we have got shortages. However, we have also allocated resources and I have with me here an allocation of funds to the two institutions. Ingutsheni hospital to function properly had asked for over $410 000 for 2016 and Government only provided $378 ooo. This means there is still a huge shortfall. We have chipped in for the drugs and for the maintenance. However, it does not raise money on its own because the inmates do not pay for the services provided. So, we are admitting that we have a shortfall and it is for this shortfall that we have appealed for assistance.
NUMBER OF VIRAL LOAD TESTING MACHINES AVAILABLE
IN PUBLIC HEALTH INSTITUTIONS
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Health and Child
Care to inform the House on the following:
- The number of viral load testing machines that are available in public health institutions; and
- The number of viral load testing machines are functioning and the reasons for some of the machines that are not functioning.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. My apologies for questions numbers 27 to 30 because these questions had been posed before and I had tendered the answers to these questions in December and they have just reappeared on the Order Paper. I could supply the House with the answers in the next session. I thank you.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. GANDAWA): I move that
Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 29 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 29 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER
AND TERTIARY EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT ON HARNESSING BIOTECHNOLOGY FOR
SOCIO-ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
Twenty-ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the
First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary
Education, Science and Technology Development on Biotechnology.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. GANDAWA): Madam
Speaker, I want to present responses to the recommendations by the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development.
Firstly, I want to thank the Chairman of the Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology
Development, Hon. Dr. Mataruse and his Committee for the report on biotechnology. The National Biotechnology Authority (NBA) is a strategic arm of the Government of Zimbabwe established through the
National Biotechnology Authority Act [Chapter 14:31] of 2006. As the National Competent Authority for all biotechnology and bio-safety matters, NBA advises Government on all aspects of biotechnology and bio-safety to enable policies and laws to be made from an informed and evidence based point of view.
Biotechnology has been identified as one of the most promising tools that can bring about rapid sustained socio-economic development in Zimbabwe. However, being a new field, modern biotechnology is commonly associated with a lot of misconceptions in the public domain including policy makers and legislators. In its quest to explore and exploit the potential of new and emerging technologies including biotechnology, the NBA endeavours to provide adequate advice to policy makers and the public on the benefits and potential risks associated with the use and adoption of products derived from new and emerging technologies such as biotechnology, synthetic biology and nanotechnology. Emerging technologies are part of the future of our industry, our children and the economy depends on it. Thus, the adoption of these technologies is more relevant and sustainable.
The Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development carried out an enquiry that sought to explore the benefits and opportunities that biotechnology presents to the country. Following the recommendations from the
Parliamentary Portfolio Committee, the National Biotechnology Authority made the following observations:
- ESTABLISHMENT OF THE NATIONAL REFERENCE
LABORATORY
Zimbabwe is a signatory to the Cartagena Protocol on bio-safety to the Convention on Biological Diversity, an international agreement which aims to ensure the safe handling, transport and use of products of biotechnology that may have adverse effects on biological diversity, taking also into account risks to human health. In order to contain health and safety risks of undertaking involving biotechnology processes and products, the National Biotechnology Authority (NBA), (the designated, National Competent Authority for the Cartagena Protocols on biosafety and national focal point on bio-safety clearance House for Zimbabwe) regulates the development, use and application processes and products.
Thus, the National Biotechnology Authority, needs to set up a National Biosafety Reference Laboratory manning all biosafety levels from 1 to 4. A facility of this kind is currently lacking in the country and its construction will give Zimbabwe the capacity to handle high risk category living microorganisms (LMOs). It is important that Zimbabwe through NBA has such a facility in order to be able to benchmark our test results with other biotechnology laboratories in the region and beyond.
Madam Speaker, currently, many analytical centres, research and academic institutions are relying on foreign laboratories for advanced analysis. NBA will generate income by carrying out various analytical tests (gene analysis, particle analysis, drug analysis and forensics) for our regional and local clients on a cost recovery basis. The laboratory will also be used for routine clinical and diagnostic research procedures.
Evaluations of safety and efficacy of vaccine clinical trials and data for health interventions (for example drugs, devices, and therapy protocols) will also be carried out. Furthermore, the laboratory facility will also offer training on good laboratory practices and other capacity building activities. Already, NBA has a superstructure (which is a flatlet) which needs to be renovated and transformed into Biosafety Level 1 and 2 laboratories.
In view of the above, the NBA wrote to the Ministry requesting for funds to set up a reference laboratory manning all biosafety levels to enable handling of high risk category organisms and the Ministry is amenable to avail funds to this effect. It is our view that biotechnology research and development should be allowed in our institutions while the NBA supervises that research.
2. INSTITUTIONAL FARM
There has also been need for the National Biotechnology Authority to have an institutional farm in order to contain health and safety risks of undertakings involving biotechnology processes and products. The
NBA regulates the development, use and application of biotechnology processes and products. The NBA therefore, requires land to carry out operational research, including confined field trials (CFTs). According to the NBA Act of 2006, it is a legal requirement that before a permit is issued, controlled field trials (CFTs) are conducted. In view of this issue, the NBA has written to the Ministry of Lands and Rural
Settlement requesting for an institutional farm to be used for conducting CFTs and other research and development projects. We still await a response from the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement.
- ESTABLISHMENT OF THE NATIONAL
BIOTECHNOLOGY FUND
Madam Speaker, the National Biotechnology Authority has proposed through my Ministry to establish a Biotechnology Fund as is required by the NBA Act; in order to bridge the gap between research, development and the industry, given that researchers come up with new products which fail to reach the commercialisation stage. The management and control of the Biotechnology Fund shall, subject to this Act, be vested in the Minister as Trustee of the Fund. The purpose of the Fund is as follows:
- To promote biotechnology research in institution
- Fostering and stimulating demand for any product of biotechnology;
- Research into the improvement of the production, manufacture, processing; storing or marketing of any product of biotechnology;
- The training of persons to be skilled, competent and efficient in the field of biotechnology;
- The provision of technical, consultancy and advisory services to persons engaged in the marketing of products of biotechnology;
- The provision of technical, consultancy and advisory services to persons engaged in the marketing of products of biotechnology;
- Any undertaking which in the opinion of the Minister, is calculated to promote biotechnology.
4. PUBLIC AWARENESS AND EDUCATION
Madam Speaker, the National Biotechnology Authority contributes to various parliamentary Committees where it makes various presentations on biotechnology and other new emerging technologies. In these Parliament meetings, policy makers receive factual information and current research outcomes on biotechnology and biosafety issues. The NBA had an opportunity to present at a workshop for parliamentarians in Masvingo in September 2015.
The NBA through its networks in various countries, has managed to arrange Seeing is Believing Tours of BT cotton field trials in countries such as Malawi, Burkina Faso and Sudan. This is part of the organisation’s public awareness and education tools aimed at influencing policy and decision making through practical experiences. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. DR. MATARUSE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker
for giving me this chance to thank the people who contributed to the production of this report namely: the Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development, the National Biotechnology Authority, the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development and special mention, Hon. Dr. Made came physically to present and educate the Committee. The Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development and the Committee on Agriculture, chaired by Hon. Chitindi. Finally, I thank the Deputy Minister for analysing the report thoroughly and, responding
to it.
I have noted five very important extracts from the Minister’s report. Firstly, the adoption of these technologies, which means, the biotechnolocy, the nanotechnology, and the nanobiotechnology is more relevant and sustainable. That is a commended report.
Secondly, the nation needs Biosafety Reference Laboratory Level 4 to handle very minute and sophisticated organisms. 4 – the National
Biotechnology Act, provides for the establishment of a fund and the Ministry has responded that, it is going to implement that Act. The subject is highly technical and it is new, so it needs further education or continuous education and awareness and the Minister has actually reiterated that. We appreciate that too.
The National Biotechnology Authority needs land to conduct confined field trials and the Ministry has accepted that and we hope that the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement is going to act positively and urgently. With this in mind, I now request the House to adopt the Committee report. Thank you very much.
Motion put that the First Report of the Portiolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development be adopted.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON.
- MADE), the House adjourned at Fourteen Minutes past Five
o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 14th February, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
APPOINTMENT AS CHAIRPERSON OF THE JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that, the
Committee on Standing Rules and Orders has appointed Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi as Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – the appointment is with immediate effect.
NETWORKING DINNER FOR COTTON GROWERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also wish to inform all Members of
Parliament who had registered to attend the networking dinner hosted by the Cotton Company of Zimbabwe on Wednesday 15th February, 2017, that this event has been postponed. Hon. Members will be advised of the new date in due course.
VALENTINE’S DAY WISH
THE HON. SPEAKER: I want to wish all Hon. Members a happy Valentine’s Day – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for wishing us a
happy Valentine’s Day and we also want to say happy Valentine to you too. We expected to see flowers as most of us here are happily single though but we expected to have flowers. - [Laughter.] –
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, happy Valentine to you too. I rise on a matter of urgent public importance…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Nduna, I had not finished my ritual. Hon. Sibanda, please be guaranteed that the flowers are in my heart. - [Laughter.] –
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Mr. Speaker, I was up before you
announced for Notices of Motions because mine is not a Notice of Motion.
THE HON. SPEAKER: So why are you taking the podium?
HON. NYAMUPINGA: I was up before and you ordered me to
sit down.
THE HON. SPEAKER: But I never addressed you.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: I thought you were looking at me
because I was standing up. Maybe your eyes are blind because of the valentine greetings that you are getting – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am going to indulge you because of
Valentine’s Day. Can I hear you?
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I
wanted to respond to the Valentine wishes that you gave us on this Valentine Day. We also wish you the same and Mr. Speaker, you did a good thing to remind especially your fellow Members of Parliament in this House if they ever sent any valentine messages to their wives and partners home before they left to come to Parliament – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I hope they are learning from you Mr.
Speaker.
This is what we expect as women that when there are days like these where we need to be shown love, you always remind them. Thank you Mr. Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, I can only trust Hon.
Nyamupinga that they did in the privacy of their bedrooms.
HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, mine is a point of priviledge and has nothing to do with Valentine’s Day or with love but a lot to do with the welfare of Members of Parliament, especially when they are crossing the road from the park coming to Parliament. I have noticed that motorists are…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get the first part?
HON. MLILO: When Hon. MPs are crossing the road from the
park coming to Parliament; motorists are speeding there willy-nilly and have high disregard for human lives.
I would like to propose to Administration, through your humble office Mr. Speaker Sir, that let us lobby council to erect pedestrian crossing traffic lights so that Members of Parliament do not get struck by cars there. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mlilo, your observation is noted
and action will be taken accordingly. Thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, mine is more on a
point of clarity from you. Last week you indicated that you would write to His Excellency pertaining to the conduct of the Ministers. Has that letter gone to His Excellency?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will indulge you. The letter went, yes and very detailed indeed.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker. With the leave of the House, I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 29, be stood over until Orders of the Day Numbers 30 and 31 have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE ON THE
WORKING CONDITIONS AT THE HWANGE COLLIERY COMPANY LIMITED, NATIONAL RAILWAYS OF ZIMBABWE
AND DETE REFRACTORIES
Thirtieth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social
Welfare on the working conditions at Hwange Colliery Company Limited, National Railways of Zimbabwe and Dete Refractories.
Question again proposed.
*HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for according me this opportunity to add my voice on this report we presented as a Committee when we visited Hwange. On this journey, we did not want to see Hwange and the other companies that we visited only but it was a sign that we wanted to see how companies in our country are operating because of the challenge that we are facing of workers being retrenched. Many workers who are now on pension are not getting their dividends and others have had their companies closed.
The other thing that really urged us to go out as a Committee to see how workers are being treated is that we know workers are the backbone of our wealth but as we are seated in here, that is not being recognised. Everything works because of the worker. Even here Mr. Speaker, for you to be seated there and your work to be seen is because of your workers but if your workers are not being treated well, then you see that our economy is not growing because workers are the ones that help us in creating wealth.
On our visit, we met the workers at Hwange Colliery. We have workers who went on pension in 2009 but up to now, they have not received anything. They are just seated there and not being given anything. We also met workers who were retrenched and vacated from the company houses because they could not pay rentals and their children are no longer going to school. We saw that workers were now being treated as slaves. They are not given their pensions and those who were staying in company houses are being asked to vacate the houses.
The other thing that we observed is that companies prefer engaging contractors but in the Labour Relations Act, we say that a contractor is an individual not a company. At the Hwange Colliery Company, there are contractors there who are individuals but workers are not getting their salaries while contractors get their money. As a Committee, we recommended that if it were possible, to enable the workers at Hwange
Colliery to get their money, this issue of contractors should be stopped. There are many people there especially those who are skilled to do the work, provided that there is money. I think they should stop engaging contractors so that workers get their salaries because most of the money is being channelled to pay contractors.
The other thing that we noticed at the Refractory after visiting Hwange Colliery Company is that the workers there were being treated as slaves. They were not allowed to go for tea time or break and did not have protective clothing. They were not even given time to go for lunch and would only go for lunch after finishing work. The other thing which was happening to these workers is that they are not being paid their salaries but are being paid in kind. They are given bricks as payment and asked to go and sell the bricks. The company cannot get sales but it wants to give products to its workers as salary. The company itself is not able to sell its products but expects the workers to sell them and get their salaries from there.
We noticed that the way workers are being treated in all these companies is equal to slavery which is not in line with the Labour Act because we removed that and said workers should be treated well not as slaves. We see that in this 21st Century, there are still companies in Zimbabwe that are treating workers as slaves. With these few words Mr.
Speaker, that is my contribution from our visit to Hwange. Thank you.
HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir
for giving me chance to air the same sentiments as have been aired by the last Hon. Member. We actually are experiencing in Zimbabwe a lot of mishaps and malpractices by companies who made a lot of money from our local people – the blacks working for companies like Hwange Colliery and National Railways of Zimbabwe. We have got a lot of companies in Zimbabwe; it is not only those that were visited. We have got in the country, I will give you an example of Madziwa Mine, Trojan Nickel Mine people have been laid off in retrenchments as well as pensioners who have been going without anything for years.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is now actually an understanding that these people here entered an agreement with their former employers and the companies have changed hands in times where new companies come in and make arrangements for re-engagement of the same workers and some of these contracts will say when one reaches pensionable age, he has to be retrenched, given a truck or a certain amount of money and he must relocate to his rural home.
The problem is Hwange Colliery, we do not know when it opened and started mining but it is a long time ago. Madziwa and Nickel Mine opened a long time ago. Most of these people here were aliens. Their father came from Malawi and he had his children at Madziwa Mine. Now pensionable age has arrived, the father long died and now the children are the ones remaining. They have to go to their rural home. They do not even know where Zomba is and they are told to vacate the house that the parent used to live when he was born. They do not have any remuneration and come 2009, a lot of companies have failed and closed.
We have lots and lots of people who are not employed and the new contracts now, because of change of ownership in those mines is coming into effect. We are finding the people who have been there who were retrenched, they are able-bodied and have not reached pensionable age but are not being employed. These contractors come in with new people when those people are still living in the compounds.
Mr. Speaker Sir, from where I come from Bindura South, we have got this problem at Trojan Nickel Mine. People are being shipped out, they are told to go home and they do not have any home. Likewise in Hwange, one can imagine now - number 1 in Hwange, how old are those houses and the people who are there who have been retrenched? Where do they go? They had homes when they were still young and they came to find employment, they got it. Pensionable age came and he had forgotten about going back home because he was getting remuneration where he was working. We are saying honestly, Government has to put in place a policy whereby when one is still working, one contributes but when he goes on pensionable age or retrenchment, what they are being given, if at all they get it, is so minute; is so little, one cannot live on it; let alone to tell one to go to Jambezi.
He does not have a home there, the company does not actually go there and construct a home for them and may be one had quarreled with his relatives, he is no longer acceptable. It is also actually happening with the National Railways of Zimbabwe, it used to be the highly paying company and I worked for the same company. You go to Sizinda in Bulawayo, the people there are all aliens, most of them are aliens. You go to Matshobana, it is the same. You tell them to go back home, where do they go? There are no homes to be talked about. I think on the social welfare and labour, we have to revise and revisit what we call pensionable remunerable payments. One has to board a bus, maybe he has gone to settle in Matobo, he has to come to Bulawayo to get his pension or whatever peanuts he is going to be getting. He boards a bus, comes to the bank and does not get the money. He has to sleep in Bulawayo but what is he eating and what is the cost of going back home? What does he buy and how much is he getting - US$30.
We need actually to revive and say as a Government, let us look at the welfare of our people, those that have made the welfare of this country successful. Yes, they came from elsewhere like we also came from Zimbabwe then Rhodesia, we used to go to Wenela. We are crying to the Public Service, Labour and Social Services Ministry to say there has to be remuneration paid to Zimbabwe because the people went out there, they worked and came back without anything. Their pensions are supposed to be paid and repatriated to Zimbabwe. Let us pay our people what is meaningful so that they actually will have a decent life and maybe also to say if need be, if people who are contributing towards NSSA, if it could be increased to say when you go on retirement, how much do you get. This is across the board, never mind where one is actually working. If you retire, you become a reject and you get nothing.
The life that you used to live is no more the life that you are living now.
I want to thank you Hon. Speaker for this chance of airing my two words. I thank you.
HON. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to contribute to this debate as one of those people that visited Hwange and Dete. It is a very sad script in our life as an independent Zimbabwe. What is sad about Hwange Colliery is that the majority of the people there, as has been said are aliens and they have now been retrenched.
The people who are left at the Colliery and jobless are a third generation.
Their properties including businesses that were created by Hwange Colliery, the bosses either working for Hwange Colliery or who used to be with this company have taken those businesses and are now in private hands while people are wallowing in poverty.
There is need may be that a commission of inquiry be instituted to check into what is going on at the Colliery. As a member of that
Committee, I think my contribution stops here. I thank you very much.
+HON. MKANDLA: I would like to add my voice to what others have said. I am one of the members who went to Hwange Colliery and Dete National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ). I will start with Hwange Colliery Company. Most of the employees at Hwange are of different races, both foreigners and nationals. People in that area are facing many challenges. Most of the workers, when we visited in 2015, were not getting paid and I do not know whether they are being paid now. What I know is that they were not getting paid and most of the children of the lower grade workers are not going to school or getting medical attention.
However, most of the Managers’ children are well educated and getting medical attention when they get sick. They still have maids and garden workers who are paid by the company yet lower grade workers are not being paid. Most of the contractors at Hwange Colliery are renewing their four year contracts though they are not being paid. Hwange Colliery gives people beans and mealie meal for food but they are not being paid. Some do not even have shelter and some have been retrenched but they do not have shelter. The company has shown that it does not even care about that, though those are the same people who have worked to improve the area.
Then going to NRZ in Dete, we met with the employees and most of them come from very far. I am speaking as one of the residents of Dete. There so many wild animals yet these people work night shifts and walk bare footed in the middle of the night. They do not even have money to pay for their rentals. I know that Mr. Speaker is aware of this because that is where he comes from. Most of the employees do not even have money to pay their rentals in the low density areas which are very expensive so most of them have resorted to living in the high density areas. It is difficult to stay and rent someone’s property and not pay rent.
If we do not do anything at Hwange Colliery, we will end up having a situation like at Kamativi mine where most of the employees are not being paid and people are facing serious challenges. When this committee came back, I realised that nothing had been done in terms of follow up on what was happening in Dete. Some of the workers are not even allowed to go to the toilet when they are working. When they go they are monitored on time taken to go and come back from the toilet. If one falls sick, the managers will blame them for going to seek medical attention. When we got there, we were told that most of the employees were given protective clothing, though it is okay for them to get that but that is not everything that they need.
There is also a bakery that was opened but it was not completed to become a bakery and at the end of the day, it was being operated as a flea market. In a community there is need for people to survive based on what is there in their community. There is also a hotel that is there but it is so expensive and at the end of the day people are not even able to use it. When someone is working it is a sign that someone is trying to survive. The situation that is at Dete NRZ and Hwange Colliery - most of the people indicated that they needed Members of Parliament to debate on the situation.
I also want to urge Hon Minister that when they are there in their offices, they should get time to also make site visits so that they get to know exactly how people are living. When we do not have any employment in Zimbabwe we should realise that we are killing the economy of the country. There is no one who can go to work on a hungry stomach and we have to take note that as we work, we will be doing so for the improvement of the country. With these few words I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: I also want to add my voice as one of the members of this Committee. As alluded to by the earlier speaker, we are supposed to derive benefits from our own God given resources. Coal, gold and all the other minerals are finite resources which will never sprout out of the ground ever again if they have been extracted. There is a point that is very sad that obtains at Hwange Colliery, Dete Refractory and at NRZ in that area. At Hwange colliery, the workers are not being paid and the living conditions are deplorable in terms of houses and amenities. The amenities are nowhere to be found. The people that are there, one other way are not registered because first and foremost, their children do not have birth certificates and they are termed aliens. They were voting at one point but they are no longer voting because their alienship still subsists and they have been asked to retract that alienship.
That as it may be, if that worker dies today without a salary or any good conditions of service, immediately there is a coffin that is delivered by the parent company Hwange Colliery, the National Railways of Zimbabwe or the Dete Refractory. This can be brought to an end because we can utilize our God given resources first and foremost, in that locality before we expand to other cities and towns using importation of resources and mineral wealth from as far as Hwange. I say this because Hwange, Lupane and Nkayi road is in a deplorable state, plundered and put into a state of disrepair by coal companies and by coal laden bulk transporters from Hwange, coming all the way to
Harare in order to resuscitate, revitalize, revamp and you can name it Mr. Speaker Sir; Harare at the expense of Hwange. It is my clarion call that a quarter of all resources from all localities be given back to those localities before we enhance the images of other towns and cities at the expense of the locals.
It is my clarion call that if we can expand and enhance the welfare and well being of the localities - first and foremost given that we plough back a quarter of all extracted resources – aware that Zimbabwe has got an open cast mine at Hwange Colliery that is endowed with 1.2 billion worth of coking coal which is world acclaimed and which is of high quality and standard. If we can have a quarter of these extracted resources ploughed back to Hwange, there will be no want perse. The workers will go with pay but we have misdirected priorities.
I will give you an example of Zimplats, formerly BHP; we are the second largest producers of platinum in the whole of Africa. There is a low lying bridge within their locality, confines and spaces of operations where in 2015 in December a whole family of seven perished in their locality where they could have rehabilitated….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I thought you were talking about Hwange Colliery – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for your guidance. I will take you back to using local resources for the locals in those areas. I am just saying, let us not just justify the issue of getting what we can and caning what we get at the expense of the formerly marginalised black majority. Let them enjoy their benefits in their locality; in particular in Hwange whilst they live. Let them not enjoy the benefit of being planted using expensive and expanded coffins. This is my point exactly. Let our resources first and foremost benefit the locals and then let us import them into other citizen towns.
The issue that the workers are walking long distances crisscrossing the width and breadth of the railway line in a wildlife infested area cannot be condoned. Immediately, we need to resource these people. We need to tool them with uniform and we need to make sure that they are also armed so that they can go to work to come back and not to go to work and come back in a disused state or in a state which can only be good for being buried –[HON. MEMBERS: Hatisikunzwisisa kuti arikuti chii.] – As I wind up Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Ehe wind up.] –
In 2014, there was a rush for our ubiquitous amount of coal which is qualitative and quantitative, but to this day and age where we import more than 14 000 barrels of oil were we would be using our own fossil fuel championed by Hwange Colliery; we are seeing a situation where our locals are dis-enfranchisised at the expense of the global community.
Above the issue of empowering our own people with our own people with our own coal, let us use our own resources to produce our own oil – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The people of
Hwange are listening here today and they want to know from you Mr.
Speaker Sir…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. In terms of our Standing Order Number 106, we are not allowed to be repetitious or bringing in irrelevant materials. I am appealing to Hon. Nduna to be pointed and wind up please.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. One of the directors at Dete Refractory is also on numerous boards here in Harare. It is also my recommendation and clarion call that board members be chosen after appearing before your Committees of Parliament so that it is known that they do not appear on more than three boards because they are then employing a lot of lethargy in their modus operandi in other areas at the expense of good service.
I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to ventilate these points vociferously and effectively. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. As your Chair, I hope those who speak after will talk about what they actually saw and raise substantive issues because unfortunately, I happen to come from that part of the country and I get disappointed when people become very superficial on issues on the ground. So, those who are coming after, please go for substantive issues that can help us.
HON. SANSOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am not a member of the Committee so I will not speak about what I saw but because I did not go – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Can we listen please?
HON. SANSOLE: I was saying I am not a member of the Committee hence I will not speak about what I saw because I did not participate. However, I will raise substantive issues….
THE HON. SPEAKER: But you can speak about what you know.
HON. SANSOLE: Yes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you.
HON. SANSOLE: Mr. Speaker, I think at the time that the report was presented to this House; Hwange Colliery was 23 months in arrears as far as salaries are concerned. The three entities that we are looking at are either state enterprises or parastatals and I am worried about the trend to meet obligations relating to remuneration by way of payments in kind. If you look at Hwange Colliery, members of the Committee raised the issue of payment in the form of food hampers. I have seen that happening and I think that it is indicative of the failure by the Colliery’s management to manage their cash flows and I think there is need for them to work on managing their cash flows so that they are able to meet their commitment in terms of salaries.
It is not just salaries, Mr. Speaker Sir, medical aid deductions are made from employees, but those deductions are not remitted to the medical aid society. Pension deductions, similarly, are made from employees and are not remitted to the pension fund. As a result, there have been workers that have found themselves in very difficult situations. I have actually seen people failing to meet their medical bills. Also, funeral assistance is not available. The company is no longer offering much in the form of funeral assistance. So, we have seen people being buried as paupers because of lack of assistance from the company.
The company has also subcontracted mining to companies like
Mota-Engil, in the process, rendering employees redundant. In spite of that, production is still going down because, according to the company, they are not being paid by companies that they provide coal to, such as the ZETDC, which has affected Hwange Colliery Company. I would actually call upon the company to address that issue as it affects worker’s welfare.
On the National Railways of Zimbabwe, the same issues have been raised to do with failure to meet salary obligations and it is also indicative of management’s failure to manage their cash flows and their salary arrears. The children of workers of the NRZ have failed to secure employment in the NRZ and actually, children of employees who have died in service of the NRZ are being neglected by the Railways. Those who have actually died in active service in railway accidents have not been taken care of by the NRZ.
Now turning to Dete Refractories, the issue of payment of workers in the form of products like tiles and bricks, I think the company is also taking a cue from Government which offers stands in lieu of bonuses and I think the trend is continuing of paying people in kind. I think employers should desist from that. While they may resort to paying in the form of bricks, what I am concerned about is that they are offering these bricks not at a discount. It would make sense if the company offered bricks and tiles to the workers at heavily discounted prices so that the workers are able to dispose of them quickly and get their money, but for a worker to acquire the product at the same price that the company is selling on the open market does not make sense because the workers cannot compete with the company. So, I would actually ask that the Dete Refractories address the issues of welfare of workers and take care of their obligations. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am going to be very brief and succinct. I want to thank the Committee for a report that is rather heart rending, but I want to address an aspect that I think does not quite come out from the report and that aspect relates to the aspect of environmental degradation and its impact on the workers at Hwange Colliery, in particular, its effect on pregnant women and the children that they bear.
I am quite certain that if an investigation were to be carried out, it would be established that women have been affected by the spontaneous combustion that is very visible if one visits the environs of Hwange Colliery because you can see yellow fumes all over the places where mining has taken place. Clearly, nothing has been done about controlling that aspect. I am quite certain that if an examination was carried out, that has affected the health of the people around that area.
Mr. Speaker, I want to say that this report is quite representative of most mines in this country. I come from Mazowe South and if you go to Jumbo Mine, you can see that the mine owners have clearly abandoned the environment. They have completely abandoned the workers in terms of where they live. The roads, especially now, have been completely taken by the rains and the mine has completely forgotten that it has a responsibility to look after the health of its workers apart from the mine
itself.
I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister definitely needs to be cognisant of the fact that our mining areas are, to a large degree, enclaves of stateless people. A lot of those people, as Hon. Matangira has correctly and in a very detailed manner stated, are largely the people that came from Malawi. They are the people that do not have identity cards. They cannot get passports; they know no one in Malawi, they cannot vote, they did not participate in the Land Reform Programme, they cannot really benefit from any Government programme and even as far as food distribution, they are in a very dire situation. They do not get sufficient food.
I would like, once again, to appeal to the Minister, to really craft policies taking this very serious situation into account. It is unfortunate that the Minister of Health and Child Care is not here. There are very serious health ramifications taking place in the mines because there are no facilities there. They were originally supplied by the mine owners in the past, but as of now, the mines have completely forgotten about the workers and are simply concerned about getting the gold or whatever mineral that is there to be extracted.
So, I would also like to suggest that the Minister of Mines and Mining Development carries out road shows in the fashion that the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, I think, has carried out around the country and visit some of the mines in collaboration with MPs in the areas and just see the state of dilapidation of mines and the environment in the area and be able to have a hands on, together with the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, and see the exact situation in the area. Then, on that basis, be able to come up with practical solutions to deal with this situation.
Getting back to Hwange, I would really like to press on this point to say that the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, the Minister of Environment, Water and Climate and the Minister of Health and Child Care should visit this area and study the extent of environmental degradation and the mine must have a responsibility to rehabilitate that area and have a detailed study and see the effect of what the mining process has done and its effect on the people. I thank you.
*HON. BUNJIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion. I am a member of the Committee which visited the Hwange area. What we observed is very sorrowful and painful. Let me introduce my discussion on this. We have people who are selected as representatives of the country. The problem which we have is that some of these representatives are selfish. All they think of is nobody else but themselves. They forget about the welfare of the other people and the reasons why they were appointed to those positions.
I have a feeling that they are so happy when they see people suffering because if it was not for that, these people would have worked so hard that Hwange and Kamativi would not have been shut down...
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of order is that as Hon. Members, who are representatives of the people, when she talks of representatives of the people, what does she mean and who is she referring to as a representative of the people who are very selfish? If she is referring to the Committee which visited that area and talking of Members of Parliament, she is off-side because when she talks about the representatives of the people, she is also included. I would like to say there is no debate; she is completely off balance and off-side.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I think the point of order has been misplaced. The Hon. Member may continue debating.
*HON. BUNJIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for clarifying the point of order. I will explain why I talked about representatives. I am saying we have Ministries which represent many organisations which are under them and they play the oversight role. What we hope is that whenever there is any development, these Ministries should be holding discussions and strategic ways and means of upholding some of these organisations so that they do not go bankrupt and people do not lose their jobs. We also know that these organisations are spinners of foreign currency.
We have Hwange Colliery, the National Railways of Zimbabwe and also Dete. What has surprised me is that these organisations are handed over to people like the Chinese to come and work and make tiles. The workers who will be on that company are paid in kind. Instead of being given their cash as salary, they are given products manufactured by that company such as bricks and they are told to sell them. When they have sold them, that is where their money would come from.
Hwange Colliery is into coal mining. We were shown some equipment which had been imported from Germany. Unfortunately, there is under utilisation and poor use of that equipment. These machines are used under the instructions of top military brass that come and dictate the amount of coal which they want. When they have reached the target which was said by that Brigadier, the coal is loaded into the National Railways Wagons and the coal is transferred to Bulawayo. These generals will be using the railway line.
We also know of some BBR, the Bulawayo/Beitbridge Railway.
This is the institution which is being used. We realise that when a Minister or some top brass says they need such a quantity of coal, the mine goes into operation. But, for the other ordinary workers, they are told that we have no equipment or need to be doing this mining. We have some skeleton staff that has been put aside to look after the equipment. We also have the security guards who are employed to patrol the railway line so that it is not destroyed. They are at the mercy of wild animals which may devour them in the course of their duty.
Other general workers also lack the necessary cash to sustain their families. What hurts me is that the destruction which is being carried out in these mines is being done by the people of Zimbabwe and not foreigners. We go to the extent of depriving our fellow workers of cash and they die of hunger. When we think of the liberation struggle, we had sons and daughters of Zimbabwe who were prepared to sacrifice their lives so that we may have land of milk and honey. What we are realising is that there are some people who are saying these war veterans sacrificed their lives for nothing because these selfish people are benefitting.
We have companies such as the National Railways of Zimbabwe and Hwange Colliery. These are companies whereby we would have expected some think tanks to sit down and hold strategic plans of upholding the wealthy of this country and these companies. I am putting this blame on the Ministers who are not interested in their duties, but are interested in their selfishness. They only want to fatten their pockets.
They waste their time putting up strategies. Even when they go out to negotiate for the country, they are so corrupt that what they want is to be given something in return for offering that tender to the foreign companies who may want to come into the country.
We have realised that National Railways wagons are being sold.
The railway line is being taken by these people to sell somewhere. People are suffering in abject poverty. What hurts me is that this is being done by fellow Africans. We do not have a white man who is carrying out these diabolic and satanic activities. It is the black people, ourselves and we are saying none, but ourselves. Let me take an example - [Hon
MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] -
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Members, please
listen.
*HON. BUNJIRA: I am talking about all the companies which have gone bankrupt. They have been destroyed by Ministers who are indulging in corruption. I am also taking into account ZISCO Steel. We were told that the company is about to be re-opened, yet this was a blue lie. It was just taking people occupied hoping that one day the organisation is going to be opened and yet there was nothing going on. With rains and the weather playing havoc on the equipment and existing infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, a lot of things have been stolen from these parastatals.
I thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to put blame squarely on the shoulders of the Ministers that because of their corrupt activities, the nation is now in problems.
+HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
We have some Hon. Members in this House who are turning this august House into a dining room. They are busy feeding and drinking yet we are doing business in this House. I think it is highly unfair. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order what the Hon. Member is saying that some Hon. Members on my right are busy munching something. That is not allowed in terms of our Standing Orders. If you want to eat anything, please leave the House.
*HON. MUPFUMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am not in the committee that visited the Hwange area but I am going to state what I know from previous experiences and explain how we managed to bring the country into bankruptcy. I am also a businessman and know how a country is run or destroyed.
What I know is that Zimbabwe is a land of milk and honey. We had our currency that was highly valued which was the Zimbabwe Dollar (Z$). During that era, companies in Zimbabwe used to pay workers’ salaries on time as these companies had banked their monies in financial institutions. We knew there was a time whereby if a company had not raised sufficient funds to pay salaries, they would go to banks for overdrafts and pay salaries. The National Railways of Zimbabwe had no financial problems as trains were traveling normally and workers were receiving their salaries.
Problems started when members of the opposition went abroad and begged the West to impose sanctions on Zimbabwe – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The opposition members are the people who are responsible for the problems in which we find ourselves in because they begged for the imposition of these sanctions. During the Zimbabwe dollar era, the currency lost its value because members of the opposition who were defeated in the general elections went to the West. The Americas and the third war of liberation in the land reform and the countries of the West then imposed sanctions on Zimbabwe.
We could not trade in our Zimbabwe dollar. We then adopted the United States dollar which is what we are using to date – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. TOFFA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Listening to the previous contributions, they were constructive and progressive contributions. The current Member of Parliament is diverting totally away from the debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I think he needs to stay focused. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, please
direct your observations to the Colliery.
*HON. MUPFUMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I will continue with my debate. The point I am bringing across is with regards to the issues and problems bedeviling Hwange. I am also trying to explain as to why the Hwange Colliery Company is failing to pay workers salaries because when we adopted the United States dollar, all the money that was banked within our financial institutions were declared null and void and could not be used yet we had no United States dollars in the banks.
These mining companies went to borrow money from the banks and thus went into overdraft. Hence what they had as collateral were the minerals in the ground and this meant that both the coal mine workers and railway workers had no money. I wish we could dig deeper into the reasons why people are not being paid their salaries. Let us not just scratch this issue on the surface.
I am pleading with our colleagues to go and beg those countries to remove the sanctions. The incumbent President of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump, said he does not want to see people suffering. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – If they could approach him, they would rescue the country because what has been done by the people is tantamount to asking for your family members and relatives to be attacked by robbers then you start blaming somebody else.
The National Railways of Zimbabwe should be given an overdraft so that workers are paid their salaries and development recurs in these organisations. We have no problems in our country; all these companies that are failing to cope at this stage are not having the expected profits. Again, this is tantamount to paying your domestic workers with foreign currency yet they are not generating any foreign currency.
I will be blunt and not hide from the truth. Members of the opposition are very much against the development of Zimbabwe. They hate progress in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe looked for ways of resolving our problems through the Look East Policy yet members of the opposition are against it. To my surprise, they are saying, ‘Zimbabwe has gone to the dogs’, yet they are responsible for the imposition of these sanctions. *HON. MUCHENJE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. In
Parliament, we do not have ‘chefs’. We are all equal as Members of
Parliament. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order there is a vehicle registration number ABY 4196. It is a black Mercedes Benz and another ADL, 9103, a black Jaguar – both vehicles are blocking other vehicles.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to make this contribution. Hon. Speaker, when we have Committees which have gone out to make some investigations, they should be given a chance to make their presentations on time because when we go out on these outreach programmes, we will be using State funds. I may say that our discussion has been diverted and is like a Malaysian aircraft which has gone astray.
I am a member of the Committee which went to Hwange to discuss with the workers and also made our own observations. The workers told us that Government has a Community Share Ownership Trust which dictates that workers should be given 10% for empowerment but the workers were not receiving anything from that Community Share Ownership Trust. The workers were also pleading with the Government to give them access to some of the claims which were used by the Government. They proposed that these reserves be taken by the trust and when they are paid for, the monies will then be used for the workers’ expenses and salaries.
We are therefore pleading with the Minister of Indigenisation that they should look at such a project so that the 10% empowerment is handed over to the workers because the company has been running for quite some time through the hard work of the workers. We also noticed that the company which was subcontracted to do coal mining, these are owned by individuals and the Government from that. We hope that the Minister of Indigenisation will craft a policy to empower the workers.
We then visited the coal mining areas and there was some equipment which was being used, bought from Germany which is a very cold country. We realised that when such equipment is manufactured, it is supposed to operate in an atmosphere of zero degrees, yet in Zimbabwe we operate in an atmosphere of 26ºC and this equipment is not adaptable to such an environment. Hence, there are continuous breakdowns as the machine cannot be used and as a result, we then have some small indigenous people who are invited to come and do some mining which does not benefit the nation.
We also received some information that the workers of Hwange Colliery who have been working for quite some time are now suffering from lung tuberculosis because when they are working underground, they inhale that hazardous and toxic gas. We also saw one worker who when he coughs you would think there is some booming sound coming from somewhere. I am saying we have a lot of gases coming from the mines. We also noticed that some of these workers had blisters on their feet because they were treading on hot coal. I completely sympathise with the people of Hwange.
We realised that whenever there is an explosion, there is a lot of coal dust which rises and these people inhale that gas. Also, the pigment of their skin is now dark because they suffer from the coal dust. Not only that, we also noticed that there are some people who have nothing to do with Hwange but because they are within that environment, they also suffer from those toxic waste.
We were also informed that the workers had NSSA deduction on their salaries, yet the monies were not directed to NSSA and as a result when workers have problems or when they die, they do not receive any social assistance from NSSA because there were no contributions forwarded to NSSA. Our belief was that if an organisation has paid money to NSSA, the workers would benefit upon retirement. All we have noticed is that NSSA is taking that amount buying some properties and when the workers need that money, they do not benefit because it is redirecting its efforts.
We also looked at the PSMAS or health insurance funds. There was a man whose wife had died because she could not access medical services because the health medical funds were not working. Again, we realised that despite the fact that monies were being deducted from their salaries, Hwange Colliery Company had not directed that money to the health fund. We are robbing these people and yet biblically we say, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. What is happening to the people of Hwange shows that they have problems and there is nobody who can come forward to help them. There is another issue which is promising in getting somebody to help them revive operations at Hwange but we cannot talk about it because it is at a small scale.
We then moved to Dete. Mr. Speaker Sir, we need to lay out a clear policy on the appointment of board members. There is only one person who was said to come to that company maybe once a year. We were told that this individual or board member belonged to 12 boards. Definitely, regardless of how hardworking you are you cannot meet all the needs of the organisations that you are representing. Therefore, we are saying as this august House, let us make a recommendation that the number of boards or portfolios held by an individual should be limited because one cannot travel to all these areas.
We were also told that some of the executives were giving themselves some meager salaries yet the workers were paid in kind, being given bricks to sell and after selling them then got their salaries. We also realised that some companies are going bankruptcy because the executives are giving themselves meager salaries and benefits, yet the shop floor worker is receiving peanuts or better still, monkey nuts. We need to relook at some of these issues. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will make
a brief contribution on this motion. I am very grateful to these
Committee Members who visited Hwange and Dete and then gave us a report on their observations. My observations are that most of our companies seem to have political interferences in their operations – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, may you please protect me. The Hon. Members should not clap hands while I am speaking because I may lose concentration and divert. When I talk about interferences, I am so happy because the Minister of Social Welfare is in the House. The Minister of Mines is also in the House but the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development is not in the House but the Minister of Industry and Commerce is in the House. Let me give an example, when coal miners mine the coal, they sell it to ZESA. ZESA is giving court orders to defaulters when they have not paid for electricity, yet it is not paying Hwange Colliery for the coal supplied to them, but they are paid for electricity. If Hwange Colliery complains they do not get a positive response from ZESA; this means political interference is dominant in parastatals.
Let me give you a second example of what I am talking about. In most companies of Government, they determine prices for their services - for ZUPCO to travel to Beitchnough they charge a certain amount. At Hwange, the price of coal is being set so, how do they make money for example if we say 1 tonne of coal must sell at US$10, how do they pay their workers? We have people in the transport business who go and import maize from Mozambique because of hunger in the country, but these people are not paid. As representatives of the workers, we are saying these people who import maize must be paid. When Railways have a breakdown and we ask for money they are told that they are not given anything and nobody benefits from such transactions - as a result the railways becomes bankrupt.
I am glad we have a representative of Hwange and Dete and what I am saying is if Hwange fires a worker for misbehaving, there will be political interference. Politicians will go to the executives of that company to enquire on why they have fired that individual. I am pleading with this august House that we should not have political interference in the operations of these parastatals. Mashava and Zvishavane Asbestos Companies were working properly and were progressing. After the political interference, these companies went bankrupt, in other words we are shooting ourselves in the feet.
I am pleading with the powers that be that we should not interfere in the operations of parastatals. We have politicians either from MDC-T or ZANU PF, these people really go and interfere into the operations of these parastatals. When authorities in an organisation have taken a decision to punish some errant workers, political interference will say
the companies should exonerate such errant workers. I am glad the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Service is here.
We had an occasion where Hon. Zindi said she had been arrested by NSSA for failing to pay US$15 and yet NSSA is failing to go and arrest the authorities of Hwange and Dete. As an individual who owns a farm, if I fail to pay NSSA, they will quickly come to arrest me. It means there is political interference. NSSA deducts money from people’s pay slips and yet at the end of the day they will say there is no money at NSSA.
NSSA is a parastatal, why is it not going to correct the problems in some of these organisations. I am pleading with the Minister under whose ambit NSSA fails to take steps. What we know is that NSSA will visit company by company and make them pay, why are they not going to ZESA and Hwange and yet they are supposed to be getting money from them? It is their responsibility and I am very glad that you fired the corrupt executives at NSSA because they were awarding themselves mega salaries. The Minister of Mines and Mining Development should be empowered so that he determines the price of coal. The board members of these organisations should be the people who set down these prices and they should not be dismissed willy-nilly. They should be given time to operate. Some of the board members are relatives of Ministers or any other high ranking officials.
We want people to be appointed into these boards through merit and not use this idea of cronyism. I am a representative of the workers and I have vast knowledge as to the needs of the workers. Some individuals have natural intelligence and wisdom bestowed on them by the Lord like Jesus Christ the son of man. We just appoint people, we do not even look at whether they are intelligent we just appoint. We are failing to run these companies and at the end of the day we blame the parties the Government yet we are our own enemies.
The other reason why these parastatals are not progressing or growing is that these workers are not paid, regardless of the amount of work they would have put in like they may ferry people or goods from one place to the other successfully but they are not paid for that work.
This is my contribution which I felt I have to make because I wonder if the Committee that visited these companies really assessed the situation. On the issue of housing in Hwange, it is now a town and I am suggesting that the houses should be given to workers and the companies concentrate on coal mining. We had workers who had been given houses meant for pensioners but last month they were evicted from these houses, and when they are being evicted where do they go? They are not given any form of assistance. I am pleading with the Committee that visited Hwange; they should be a laid down Statutory Instrument which says the houses at Hwange should be allocated to workers, especially pensioners so that they own those houses. This is my contribution for the time being and I am asking is for NSSA to follow up on organisations so that they pay their dues. If only the Minister of Energy and Power Development was here, I would have taken him to task for failing to pay for the coal supplied to them by Hwange Colliery. Nevertheless, when they fail to pay people, they are not taken to court yet when people fail to pay for electricity, ZESA asks people to pay upfront. I am saying down with those people who are misbehaving in such a manner. People need to be paid and there should be minimal political interference.
HON. P.D SIBANDA: I am literally going to translate into English what Hon. Chinotimba was saying. Most of my colleagues were speaking about the current situation at Hwange Colliery. I think it is important for me to try and go back into the history of this company. I grew up in Hwange town in the 1970s. My father was employed there during that time. Hwange Colliery was the largest coal producer then within the continent and internationally. When we were growing up, Hwange Colliery town was a hive of activity. There were buses that transported school children from one point to another throughout the day. There was free transport available to ferry people who wanted to move from one point of Hwange town to the other. Every week employees of Hwange Colliery used to get rations, not as a salary but as an addition to the monthly wages that they used to get as an incentive that was given to workers.
Now I begin to be very surprised when I go back to Hwange and see how much it has become a ghost town. I begin to ask myself what kind of a devil came into Hwange Colliery and ate away all that activity and profitability that was there during the pre independence era. Hwange Colliery was a wholly Government run entity preindependence. Now there are some private investors that are in there, with about 40% shareholding. The reason why I am talking about a devil is because the Bible, in John 10:10 says, “the thief comes but to steal, kill and destroy” As we speak right now, Hwange Colliery is producing coal because there is no shortage of coal. The demand for coal and coal products in the domestic and international markets is still high. From time to time, Hwange is staffed with boards and management who are tasked with the responsibility to run that organisation. So, there is no real reason other than stealing, killing and destroying that has taken away the activity that was in Hwange during the pre-independence era.
Like my other colleagues said, there are unsaid issues that are happening at Hwange Colliery and I always question these things. Why would you continue to appoint boards in a company that is literally not functional or no longer producing? I think one of the reasons as pointed out by one of my colleagues is that if you look at the appointment of members of the board at Hwange Colliery, apparently I have knowledge of the various boards that have been operating in Hwange Colliery for the last few years. The boards are mostly made up of girl friends with no qualifications. Right now we can go to Hwange Colliery and check the board’s credentials. It has people without even the basic five O’ levels. But because those people are either girl friends or relatives of some Cabinet Ministers, they remain on those boards. If people think I am lying, let the Minister, who is here, show us the composition of the board and the qualifications of those people that sit in the board. We have now become a country that appoints people into boards because they are either relatives or lovers and that has become a means through which those people are earning their living.
We have got stories of deliveries of coal. At one time a huge tonnage of coal was delivered to the DRC from Hwange Colliery. An instruction was given from a very high office in the Executive to the fact that the delivery should be priced at a discount of 50%. I am talking of something that is factual and is known. It is known that the other 50% that was officially discounted went into accounts of individual Cabinet Ministers. So, political interference that has been mentioned by my colleague Hon. Chinotimba and pure thieving that is taking place at Hwange Colliery is what has killed that company and nothing else. It is pure theft by Cabinet Ministers; I want to repeat that it is Cabinet Ministers that are stealing from Hwange Colliery. How else can we explain the folding of a company that is still producing a product which is still in demand on the market?
I think the curing of tobacco in this country is dependent on coal. Our power station is dependent on coal and therefore if all these products of coal are still in demand on the market, why is it that the company is failing to stand on its feet? The problem that we are having is the same problem that is affecting all Parastatals. Political interference, the culture of people entitlement, patronage and the culture where people simply steal and they are not made to account. That is the kind of way that we are running our companies in this country. We know of people that are stealing in multiple parastatals that we have as a country but no one is made to account. It is not a lie that Hon. Bunjira indicated that some army generals are actually pilfering from Hwange Colliery. They are taking loads and tonnages of coal and they are not paying even a cent yet no one asks them to account. I believe that if we are going to turnaround Hwange Colliery Company and any other parastatal that we have in this country, let us stop the culture of patronage and entitlement and then we make people to account like it happens in a private sector – otherwise right now, when we compare what Hwange Colliery was when I was growing up and what it is right now, we can safely conclude that the Rhodesian Government was doing far much better than the current or our own Government.
In simpler terms, our own Government in terms of running economic entities is a failure. It has failed in ZESA, NRZ and Hwange Colliery. We need to pull up our socks and ensure that we change the way that we do things.
Hwange Colliery Company produces coal and one of the major products of coal besides power generation is tar that is used to make our roads. It is funny that if we conduct researches, we find that the areas that are less electrified in this country are found in the same region where Hwange Colliery is located. The worst road network is found in the region where the only producer of coal is situated. That is how we run our things. We are having better road networks and electricity provision in the other regions of this country but leaving the people that are surrounding Hwange and that are being affected by the pollution of Hwange Colliery without electricity and without roads. Right now, if you look at the state of the Bulawayo-Hwange Road, it is pathetic but where does tar come from? It comes from the same Hwange area that we are talking about. If we look at all the surrounding areas, we are all aware that by electrifying and also by ensuring that you put up good roads in an area, you are improving the welfare of people.
Instead of improving the welfare of the people and communities that surround Hwange Colliery Company, we are busy looting. Who are the people who are looting? Are they the communities that surround Hwange Colliery Company? The answer is no. They are people from other regions. I think we need to change the way we deal with these issues. People around Hwange and surrounding areas in the region are looking forward that they should benefit from the operations of Hwange Colliery Company. They should benefit in terms of employment creation. They should benefit in terms of creation of opportunities of business that come out of the operations of Hwange Colliery. They expect that they should also benefit in terms of the products of coal that are coming out of Hwange Colliery so that their welfare may be improved. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
*HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to support those who have spoken before me. I am not a member of this particular Committee but I belong to the Mines and Energy Committee. When I visited Hwange Colliery, as a woman, I was really touched especially with the conditions of service for workers. The workers are not being paid. They were being given hampers excluding any salary to cater for such things as school fees for their children. Parents expect that when they are employed, they should be able to pay school fees for their children so that these children will look after them in future.
The second thing that touched me is that there are machines that were imported from Belarus at Hwange Colliery – looking at the story that we got from Hwange Colliery, the coal that we produce in Hwange is the best coal and it is sold in Botswana and South Africa. The energy that we use, the coal comes from Hwange Colliery. I am saying we should investigate the cause of all this.
We should look at the board members; there are some members who are there because of nepotism. The executive is also paying themselves salaries. They do not have a heart for the workers who are working hard so that we get foreign currency in our country.
Lastly, for me to be a woman like this, I was born of a father who was working. If a father is working, I have some expectations. The way of transportation of coal is not being maintained. The NRZ employees are not receiving any salary. It is really painful. We should investigate what has caused all this.
What is also at stake is the issue of corruption. On his State of the Nation Address, His Excellency said that all those who are corrupt should be jailed but that is not happening. Why is it not happening; because we are pointing fingers at each other? We should remove our political jackets so that our nation should be rich. The cake of the nation is not going to increase because of us. We are the leaders and people are waiting for us but at the end of the day, we are after each other.
NSSA is prosecuting people and issuing out debt collector letters but it is not giving anything to Hwange Colliery despite their contributions. The workers there are suffering. Our country should be rich because the coal that is mined from Hwange Colliery is very special and is exported to other countries but at the end of the day, we are not getting anything. We should investigate this matter. Thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. J. TSHUMA: May I also add my voice on this matter. I grew up in Hwange and did my primary education there. I know exactly the services that Hwange Colliery Company used to give from time immemorial even after independence. After that, it is so disheartening to watch how the trend started slanting and going down and down and further down.
Now, I would like to add my voice on one particular issue. We can speak about all things that we have spoken about but the fundamental issue for us as Members of Parliament is to be able to defend and represent our people at all given times and at any cost without fear or favour. What we are lacking now as a nation or what we are doing wrongly as a nation is that we want to glorify bad things. We want to defend a thing that we cannot defend at all. That has no defence at all. Why do I say so? Mr. Speaker Sir, I have heard several speakers here, come up with their contribution about the demise of Hwange Colliery Company, but I will tell you one thing, the question comes back to management of the company. People have been put and entrusted with running that company as a parastatal and while they are doing that, have we taken time to assess and say, have they done it correctly and if they have not done it correctly, what have we done?
I speak so, Mr. Speaker Sir, because at one point I was in Hwange and I discovered that some engineer ordered a part and when they ordered that part, they knew it was a wrong part, but that part still came to Hwange Colliery Company and it cost over a million dollars for that part to only come and then be put in the store room. That is a million dollars gone which could have been used to pay workers at Hwange Colliery Company and we allow that engineer to stay at work. He is still employed by Hwange Colliery Company up to today. So, you have managers that do whatever they please at the expense of the people and then we sit back here and want to play blame games and want to justify the unjustifiable.
It is wrong, Mr. Speaker. We need to be true to ourselves. Are we putting the right people in those positions for them to run those companies? I can give you an example of even NRZ. We took out a man who knew what he was doing at NRZ just because he did not agree with somebody. Archford Mabena was taken out of NRZ. He had come up with a proper strategy to turn around NRZ and where is it today? People are suffering and we condone that and say it is okay, we are going to build a nation. Really?
So, what we need to do is say, let us look at the people that we entrust to run our things. Is that person competent enough? Let us do management based result strategies and say that we are giving you a certain period to perform and when that period comes, let us sit and earnestly review and say what have you done, what have you accomplished. If you have accomplished nothing, we show you the door and get the next person. Zimbabwe is not short of brains. Zimbabwe is not short of people that can do things. They have actually gone out.
They are serving other nations. In South Africa, Zimbabweans are doing very well, in Cameroon they are doing very well and even in America itself, they are doing very well these same Zimbabweans. Why are we not bringing them in and putting the right people, the right candidates to do our jobs so that our parastatals can run properly.
I say so because when these things start happening properly, then it will cleanse even the name of the party and it will cleanse the name of the Government. Everyone will remain clean and the economy is going to start working. The NRZ right now is being sesigcwalisa amagonyethi ethareni and then at the same time sibulala iNRZ. Is that right? It is not right, Mr. Speaker Sir. When we are here, in this august House, let us put things properly and clearly. It is not about politics, but it is about the worker that we represent.
We have sworn an oath here to say we are going to do it diligently. Are we doing it diligently if we want to protect and sort of glorify wrong things? We should not do that as Members of Parliament. We should not do that as this august House. We should never be held accountable for things that we could have exposed and corrected as a people. Let us correct those things. Let us put the right people to run our institutions the right way. If the person is failing, show them the door and we get the next person. We have got enough people that can do those things.
So, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to implore and I want to beg this House to say, as a way forward, let us see, let us look – I can even reiterate the points that were said by other Hon. Members here, even the board members, are we putting the right people there because that same board member is going to sit in an interview to then hire the Managing Director of Hwange Colliery, of NRZ or of whatever parastatal. If you put the wrong person in that board, then we have lost it already from there. So let us have people coming in deservingly with proper CVs and with proper background checks.
I remember one day, a person who had worked for CMED for time immemorial tried to apply to go into the CMED board. They refused him and they put someone who did not even know what a car distributer is. But you are going to run a board that deals with such issues. Then do you think we are serious? So, let us not defend things that we do not want to defend. Marara marara. Let us have things done straight so that we do not all get painted with the same brush when somebody has benefited and I have not benefited, yet I am made to defend something that I have not benefited from. It is out. We will not accept that.
So, as this House, let us have it clear, let us put the right people for the right job so that Zimbabwe goes forward. I thank you Mr. Speaker
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for
giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion regarding parastatals, Hwange Colliery Company and Nation Railways of Zimbabwe.
We have realised that the former workers faced such big problems and as the august House, we need to look for solutions to this problem. My recommendation would be the following. We need to look first at who caused the bankruptcy and the shutdown of these companies. My answer is, the responsibility of this breakdown is on the executive of these organisations. So, what we need to do is look at the leadership of these organisations such as Hwange Colliery and the National Railways of Zimbabwe because this is a wide spread phenomenon, but particularly pinpointing at Hwange Colliery and the National Railways of Zimbabwe, we need to remove, to retrench the executive and the board members because for as long as these people are in place, the companies will continue to be bankrupt, resulting in them shutting down.
We know that Hwange Colliery is a parastatal, which means it falls under a certain Ministry and the National Railways is also a parastatal.
We have said there is no production at Hwange Colliery and yet we have Ministers who are changed now and again. Even when the President sets out the Cabinet, there are some people who are removed from their positions, but the people in those Ministries such as Permanent
Secretaries, they are not changed, yet the fault lies with the Permanent Secretary. I am saying, this is where the problem of these parastatals emanates from. It is from these Permanent Secretaries. I recommend that these Permanent Secretaries be removed. When we have a new
Minister, there should be a new Permanent Secretary.
If we implement this plan, the companies will grow. When we look at the National Railways of Zimbabwe, if that solution I have given is implemented, we will have progress. Some of the Permanent Secretaries also chair some of these boards and when we look at the reason why the Permanent Secretary is still there, we are told that there is nepotism, but then I ask myself this question, does it mean to say that this Permanent Secretary is the relative of a ZANU PF member, an MDC-T member or any other party because when Ministers are changed, they come from different Ministries.
I wanted to change into English because I now have a command of English. Some Member of Parliament once referred to me as a Grade 2, but I may inform them that I am now in Grade 3. I am progressing in my education development.
Let me now speak in English. Let us be serious if we want to do business, run this country, turn around the economy of this country and stop the problem which is facing this company. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.]- Solution number one is to look at what project we can do in Hwange which gives us money in a fast way so that we can overcome the problem. I am a member of the Mines and Energy Committee. We went to Hwange and heard about these problems from the Workers’ Committee.
The management lies, but our Ministers rely on that advice which is very dangerous. If you want to get the truth about the problem of that company, listen to the Workers’ Committee. The Hon. Member who contributed about the contractors who are now contracted in Hwange said they are paying their workers’ salaries, but Hwange workers are not getting any. Why is this happening? The Workers’ Committee told us plainly that all the equipment which came from Belarus was taken there by Government. They are working day and night making very huge production. That production which is now produced by that machinery and the workers who are not being paid are making some open and straight forward deals.
The production being made by the Government department which is the Hwange workers, are now taking that production for sale. They are going through the channel of the contractor, yet the contractor did not even spend anything out of that production. It is a mafia selling those products. At the end of the day, the workers are going to work but they are not earning anything. They are doing production and those big trucks which carry about 200 tonnes, the Belarus ones, they are now being damaged and used to work for something that is not coming into the fiscus. That is where the problem is.
Let us look at the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare; I think they must also be involved in this problem. Before the company collapses, the Ministry should go and find out the problem and the cause of urgency. For example, Hwange needs only $5 million to mine the best coal underground than the top one which we can call alluvial coal. There is alluvial and underground coal. The best coal is underground and that is needed in Africa and the world over. There is machinery which has got a problem and the money needed is only $5 million so that Hwange comes back to normal. Who is supposed to fund this?
I think Hwange workers contributed their pensions to NSSA which is not being given to them because they are not ripe. Why can NSSA not inject that $5 million to Hwange and make production? It is also good for NSSA to make double profit because the workers are going back to work and get more pension deduction from their salaries. They are also making profit from the sale of the coal. I think this Ministry, especially with their department when they opened this NSSA bank, should have considered doing such kind of a project.
There is also a problem at NRZ. NSSA should assist NRZ because it is only short of the locomotive heads which pulls the wagons. They only need those heads but how much is the head in America? I found out when I was doing the project for ZISCO Steel that the head only costs about $900 000, which is less than a million dollars. Let us say it is a million dollars, how many heads do they need? If we take ten heads, it still needs $10 million and five heads need $5 million, then you inject it in NRZ. This should be done by NSSA through the pension fund which was contributed by these workers.
I think that is the type of business that they should do rather than going for the Stock Exchange, selling shares and whatever. Today you buy shares at $2 and tomorrow it is being sold at $1. It is not good business. What about the housing business that they are doing? How many people are failing to pay rent for the houses? Even the workers of NRZ are staying at Makokoba and other areas in Bulawayo and they are failing to pay rent. NSSA is doing the same project to build houses for the people and tomorrow, they are not going to get their money.
It is not a good turn up business. I am talking about NSSA because this is the only Ministry which suffers when people are facing problems like at Hwange and NRZ. The other project which I think if they want help, they should also engage me and sorry to say that, but I can give advice. For example in mining, we have got so many people who are suffering the same as Hwange, but Hwange only deals with coal. In gold, my colleague Hon. Nduna always talks about production.
NSSA should take $10 million and inject it into gold mining and fundraise tomorrow so that they can have money to assist these other companies which are collapsing. The machinery that I saw in China, if you heard that I was lost there; it happened that I saw the best machine which I am now bringing to Zimbabwe through my investors in
Kwekwe. If they inject $10 million buying this equipment and bring it to Zimbabwe, definitely they will earn not less than 13 tonnes of gold, which 13 tonnes of gold can give them about $520 million.
I am telling you through my calculation of being in Grade 3 and that today I am now advanced from Grade 2 to Grade 3. They get such kind of money. Is it not free money on average of three grammes pe tonne. In this country, we are rich and our gold and ore, with three grammes per tonne, it is the lowest that I am talking about but we can go as far as a kilogramme per tonne. Let us not go as far as that but let us talk about three tonnes only; they get 13 tonnes of gold. So, the Ministry of Labour and Social Services through NSSA bank, why can they not be involved in this kind of business? Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. A lot of issues have been raised and perhaps I just want to emphasise on a few points regarding the issue of non-payment of salaries to Hwange Colliery workers. To date Mr. Speaker, it is of interest to note that workers are owed about three years of salary backlogs. I do not think that any of us would appreciate it for himself to be in a similar situation. Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely no reason why Hwange Colliery should not be able to pay its workers because it is the most viable business that we can think of in this country. There are ten characteristics of Hwange Colliery
Company which makes it not a good candidate to fail to pay its workers.
Firstly, Hwange produces coking coal and we know that coking coal is used in the steel making industries and how many steel making industries do we have? Locally, we have ZISCO Steel and of course, it is not functioning but there are many others. We have Essar, Isil Metal in South Africa and many other steel companies. So, there is still a market for coking coal. Secondly, Hwange produces power coal which is that coal that we use for generating electricity. All thermal power stations make use of this coal. Therefore, there is no shortage of a market for power coal because we have our four thermal power stations locally, which are all in short supply of coal. We have several thermal power stations in Zambia and several in South Africa.
Hwange Colliery produces what we coal high value coal which is that coal which burns with a lot of energy. It has a high calorific value and if you burn gramme to gramme, it produces more energy. So the world over, everyone is looking for the type of coal that you find in Hwange and it fetches a very high price. So, that should bring more money to the coffers of Hwange. Hwange produces low sulphur coal which is very good grade with very less impurities. Hwange also runs open-cast mine which is the cheapest mining method in the whole world and that open-cast mine reduces, of course the operation cost. Then, Hwange Colliery Company has a long conveyor belt. I think it is more than 5 km long and there is no need to tram coal from the mining area to the workshops or to the working areas by trucks. It simply moves cheaply on conveyor belts with two or three artisans monitoring the operations of the belt. So, that reduces the operation cost because the transportation of coal is by conveyor belt and it is the second longest from the one that is in Ngezi Platinum in terms of length.
Hwange Colliery also has a very good market in the tobacco industry. All the coal like has been said, is used for tobacco drying. Then tar like my colleague has mentioned, it is a by-product which is an extra additional amount of money after selling coal because the bitumen tar is a by-product of coal. There is also sulphur which comes when you are producing coke. That sulphur is sold to produce sulphuric acid which is an additional amount of money. So in a nutshell, there is no shortage of market for Hwange coal and Mr. Speaker, there is therefore no reason why the Colliery Company must fail to pay its workers for three years.
What are the problems in Hwange? I will just give you a synopsis.
Like Hon. Members who have spoken before me said, the problem of Hwange is corruption, corruption and corruption – mismanagement and corruption. Just a few pointers to that – to get to a general manager, if you are just an engineering foreman, you have to go through 25 managers before you can get to the General Manager. So, you can imagine exactly the situation that we were told about Air Zimbabwe by the Minister last week. There are too many managers in every department. You get manager for mining, mining manager, underground mine manager and then you wonder what is the difference in all those managers. So, each one of that manager gets a special perk – children are taken to school for free or the Colliery pays and many other various perks. A junior manager gets some special vehicles which is equivalent to our Deputy Ministers in terms of the range of vehicles that they get. You can imagine the other managers that are above, what they get.
Coke is produced in Hwange but who is producing it? It is the Chinese who are not paying a single cent to the Colliery. They are producing it and sending or exporting it to their own country. So, how can the Colliery not fail to pay its workers and such shady deals in the coke production are visible in Hwange. The conveyor belt was deliberately destroyed by the Colliery so that the managers now have their own private companies of lorries that are now carrying coal for 6 km, instead of using the cheapest form of transportation. They have put their own companies subcontracted to the Colliery which are now carrying coal. Of course, you cannot compare the conveyor belt to the lorries. The lorries need a driver, they need several people and other equipment to load and on top of that, you need diesel but the conveyor belt simply needs two artisans carrying the coal 24 hours but it was destroyed. When they tried to replace it, the conveyor belt was bought for about $3 million, it crossed the border and there were documents to show that the conveyor belt was replaced but it never arrived in Hwange. It was never found in the warehouses of Hwange. Up to now, nobody knows what happened to the conveyor belt and the cars are still tramming bringing the coal to the coke works. That is an expense because if you brought in the conveyor belt Mr. Speaker, then it means that the managers’ companies that are subcontracted to carry the coal would lose business.
There was talk of the Belarus equipment and there is something again, a synopsis of corruption Mr. Speaker. Equipment was bought from Belarus and Hwange Colliery artisans (diesel plant fitters) were pulled out from the Colliery to go and train on how to fix that Belarus equipment. The moment they graduated, they formed a separate company under the engineering manager to provide services to the company and at the same time getting a salary from the company. So, we have artisans getting a salary from the company and at the same time subcontracted by the engineering manager by that time who resigned and brought in the same engineers to work with him to provide services to the Colliery. All these issues are in the public domain and workers have tried to go to the courts about them, the Minister was engaged about them and nothing is coming out.
Now, there is a structure of how to pay. Whenever Hwange Colliery gets money, there is an agreed structure of how to pay the prioritisation and firstly, who gets the money – it is the contractors.
They are priority number one. Who are the contractors? The contractors are companies that are owned by the managers themselves. So, even if the managers do not get a salary, they will still get money from the contracts that they have within the company. So, that is why we are saying the issues about Hwange, it is corruption and more corruption. Unfortunately, the Minister of Mines and Mining Development was engaged on these issues and he promised that within three months all workers would be paid, but up to now workers are still not paid. They agreed on a system of paying where the Minister gave a directive that whenever you get money, first priority is the workers - at least part of their salaries. Then second priority you go to the contractors and other service providers, but the moment the Minister left the management argued that we can follow that system because the software system that the Minister provided has collapsed so we go back to the old system.
So, that is why I say the issues about Hwange - for some of us, we believe that it is deliberate destruction to suffocate that particular region.
I have a lot of reason not to believe that it is deliberate because the
issues of Hwange could be solved overnight, just fire the whole management. Hon. Sibanda was talking of one board member whom I went to school with she does not have a single O level but she has been in the board ever since the previous Minister Mpofu, and many other Ministers. Others are removed but that particular lady remains on the board. She does not have a single O level - then you wonder, how can you turn around a company with people who have absolutely no knowledge of what mining is about?
Hon. Speaker, the issues of Hwange are slightly are beyond the Minister, perhaps we need to engage His Excellency directly to say can you deal with this. There are no problems that cannot be solved but it is just people are not interested to sovle the problem because all the big bosses have lined the pockets in Hwange; they are getting monies continuously. No wonder why we hear of community share ownership scheme in Ngezi, Ngezi Mine is paying but we never hear of a Community Share Ownership in Hwange. If it is there ZESA is not paying. Colliery is not paying, Hwange National Paying are not paying to the Community Share Ownership, hence that whole region if you go there, that is where you smell the largest amount of poverty in that area and yet they are the richest. For some of us, we become so emotional about these issues that are why we have been saying perhaps this issue of decentralizing the powers to bring back the local issues to local people, I think it would assist us a lot. We have a national asset that is benefiting a few relatives and friends at the expense of the local people who are supposed to benefit. By the time their tummies are full, I think there will be no coal left and that is very pathetic, it will be detrimental to the country and also to the communities around.
I thought I needed to raise this Mr. Speaker; the issue of Hwange is very emotive. If Government does not solve it, one of these days I think we will mobilise as a region and fight whoever is responsible for our poverty in Hwange because we know what is happening. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATANGAIDZE): Thank you for this opportunity to respond to initially the report by the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare on the working conditions at the Hwange Colliery Company Limited, National Railways of Zimbabwe and Dete Refractories.
Allow me to thank initially the Chairperson, Hon. Kwaramba and indeed all the Hon. Members who have passionately debated on this motion today. A lot of the issues which came up, particularly in today’s debate, you will appreciate that they transcend to other ministries. But of importance to my submission now, dwell to a great length on the issues which are peculiar to our Ministry. I hope as well as I make that submission that other Ministers will indeed take up the very positive submissions that were made in this debate and follow up on the issues so that together as inter-ministerial task force we can get a solution to, not just Hwange, National Railways and Dete Refractories as well.
Mr. Speaker Sir the import of the Committee’s report alleged gross violation of labour laws by the three companies, Hwange Colliery Company Limited, National Railways of Zimbabwe and Dete Refractories by breaking the fundamental rights of employees in terms of the Labour Act Chapter 28:01 and even more importantly Section
65(1) of our Constitution on labour rights which reads, ‘Every person has a right to fair and safe labour practices, standards to be paid a fair and reasonable wage’.
Mr. Speaker Sir, your Committee’s report and the subsequent debate highlighted that the labour law violations manifested in, firstly,
- Failure to honour collective bargaining agreements
- Rampant dismissals of employees through taking advantage of ambiguity in the labour laws. A case in point, being taking advantage of the Supreme Court judgment on Zuva
Petroleum Pvt Ltd vs. Nyamande and another 43/15
- Failure by the companies to uphold expected safety and health standards, and
- Generally poor working environment and relations.
Mr. Speaker Sis this House implored my Ministry to take cognisance of these violations, more so in light of the fact that the three companies are significant players in our countries economy and in light of the fact that failure to pay salaries and wages is a serious breach of the
Labour Act Chapter 28:0, Section 2A (1) (C), Section 6 (1) (a) and the Constitution Section 65 (1). In addition, terminations on notice are regulated by Section 12 of the Labour Act and read with convention 158 and recommendation 166 of the International Labour Organisation
Standards. Article 4 of Convention 158 reads “The employment of a worker shall not be terminated unless there is a valid reason for such termination connected with the capacity or conduct of the worker or based on the operational requirements of the undertaking, establishment or service”
Mr. Speaker, accordingly your Committee’s expectation from my Ministry as validated by Hon. Members was as follows:
- To conduct an inquiry into the working conditions at the three companies
- To ensure that the three comply with the labour laws of this country, and
- To expedite the comprehensive alignment of the labour Act to the Constitution in order to guarantee fair satisfactory conditions of work in the country.
The House particularly requested for speedy implementation to avoid piecemeal solutions such as the Labour Laws Amendment Act of 2015. Mr. Speaker Sir, we concur that workers are key assets for the realization of optimum output by organisations which leads to a country’s economic prosperity. We again agree that there is urgent need for concerted efforts to restore the dignity of the workers in pursuit of our ZIM ASSET goals. Accordingly, Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministry instituted investigations and requested and independently established the following:-
- At the National Railways of Zimbabwe, outstanding salaries are now over 16 months. Currently there is law production against targets.
- Employees are also on record alleging that machinery is obsolete, thereby posing potential danger to themselves.
- At Hwange Colliery Company Limited outstanding salaries are now over three years but Human Resources stated that they have since secured a loan from RBZ to the tune of US$7 million. On further inquiry, the employer outlined their proposal that they intended to pay the employees 22% of their salary initially in the first month and then to stagger the remainder over 36 months.
- The Hwange Colliery Company Limited confirmed the report that the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee that safety clothing is now available.
Dete Refractories
Dete Refractories is a very old plant with primitive machinery and they have no capacity to recapitalise so that they can buy modern equipment.
Issues in Dispute
For the three companies, the main contentious issues relate to non- payment of salaries and alleged lack of commitment by the employers to find solutions to the problem. There are concerns that even if a plan is put in place there is no commitment by management to adhere to such plans. The employees alleged acts of unfair labour practice by Dete
Refactories where tiles and bricks are said to have substituted salaries.
- The other issues in dispute relate to non-payment of pensions which were deducted but not remitted, as well as medical aid and funeral assurance schemes for employees. It was the employees’ case that management was not prioritising their welfare.
- The employees from the three companies alleged that the employers were breaching health and safety issues, thereby putting them at risk. Of concern was the use of obsolete machinery and lack of safety or protective clothing. Others at National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ) are said to be working in areas with dangerous animals like lions for the railway patrolmen in Dete area.
Further allegations against the employers were that for the NRZ, the July, 2015 dismissal of targeted vocal employees, thereby alleging victimisation.
- The workers also lamented high rental charges for company accommodation despite the companies’ failure to pay salaries.
- There were further allegations of corruption leveled against
Hwange Colliery Company when outsourcing or hiring machinery. The employees stated that they have other options to repair the machinery which is cheaper than hiring, which require immediate payment and is also less expensive.
Observations
- The three companies are of strategic importance to the country considering the workforce in its employ and dependence of the workers.
- The railways is of strategic importance as bulk carriers and its importance to the economy cannot be overemphasised.
Hwange Colliery Company Limited and its workforce is also the backbone of the economy in terms of power supply, particularly, its supply of coal to the Zimbabwe Power Company and tobacco farmers.
- Dete Refractories has become a source of livelihood for people in the area and if it functions below capacity it will lead to loss of employment and loss of livelihood for the people.
- It is common cause that the working relationships between the parties have deteriorated, as it is characterised by mistrust.
- Identified breach of regulations in particular Section 25 (a) of the
Labour Act [Chapter 28:01], where Hwange Colliery Company Limited has gone for three years without convening a works council meeting. These meetings would be of strategic importance where the companies are facing the alleged challenges.
Recommendations
- The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, labour
inspectors together with designated agents from NEC Transport, Energy and NEC Bricks will move immediately to make further enquiries on the issues raised on the working conditions at these companies. There is need to conduct inspections in loco to safeguard the rights of employees and promote fair labour standards.
- Since the companies are of strategic importance to the economy, there is need to map the way forward so that they are revived to their former glory.
- On the issue of hiring machinery at Hwange Colliery Company which lack transparency, the company has to invoke proper tender procedures to the satisfaction of stakeholders concerned. As for hiring of contract workers by NRZ during peak periods, management has to follow procedures which uphold corporate governance principles.
- It is also important to highlight that for the NRZ, advancing technology will increase efficiency and productivity. This calls for repairing of electric signals which will enhance service delivery.
- On the of housing for NRZ employees, the company should consider heavily subsidising these for the employees. This is so, considering that they are not paying the employees their salaries and wages as well as meeting their welfare concerns.
- Dete Refractories should cease paying employees in tiles and bricks as there are limited market for these products in the area. It is also ultra-vires the Labour Act [Chapter 28:01]. The company should instead, look for buyers outside Dete and sell the products, then pay employees their salaries.
- Health and safety issues were of concern in these companies. The
Ministry and NSSA will conduct special inspections to check compliance and impose penalties for breaches. Hazardous working environments should be avoided at all costs. Mr. Speaker Sir, because this issue came in debates quite a lot, let me also inform this House that NSSA has since acquired the mobile clinic which will be moving from site to site checking for diseases related to pneumoconiosis,
Tuberculosis and other related diseases
- We are calling for frequent dialogue between employees and employers in a bid to improve the working environment.
- We urge the organisations which have alleged financial incapacity to henceforth enter into payment plans with their employees so as to clear the backlog in outstanding salaries. Failure of which they should approach our Ministry and /or NEC for redress.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like the House to take note of the significant progress Government has achieved in aligning our labour laws to the Constitution. I am happy to report that Cabinet approved the Principles of the new Labour Law on 12th December, 2016 and authority has since been granted to proceed with drafting the Bill for Parliament’s consideration.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I hope my presentation covers the broad issues that are particular to my Ministry in this regard and again emphasise that by no means have I adequately covered the other issues from other Ministries. May other Ministries take that on board so that we get a proper solution to this issue. I thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like
to thank the Minister for responding to our Report on the working conditions at Hwange Colliery Company Limited, National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ) and Dete Refractories and in the process wind up this motion. On behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Public Welfare, Labour and Social Welfare, I would like to thank the Minister for the detailed report on the issues we raised in the Report. We hope that all the recommendations will be taken on board.
Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me to thank all members of your Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare who in pursuit of Parliament’s oversight role undertook the inquiry into working conditions at Hwange Colliery Company Limited, NRZ and Dete
Refractories.
Let me extend the same to the following Members who contributed to this debate: Hon. Tarusenga, Hon. Matangira, Hon. Ndlovu, Hon.
Mkandla, Hon. Nduna, Hon. Sansole, Hon. Chasi, Hon. Bunjira, Hon.
Mupfumi, Hon. Mapiki, Hon. Chinotimba, Hon. Sibanda, Hon.
Matsunga, Hon. Tshuma, Hon. Matambanadzo, Hon. Gabuza and Hon.
Sibanda.
Mr. Speaker, I now move for the adoption of this motion and its removal from the Order Paper.
Motion that this House takes note of the motion on the Second
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social
Welfare on the working conditions at the Hwange Colliery Company Limited, National Railways of Zimbabwe and Dete Refractories.
Put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move that Orders of the Day Numbers, 31 to 39 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 40 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ACTION TO END VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND GIRLS
Fortieth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Activism against gender-based violence campaign.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand up to humbly submit a response to a well thought-out motion on a belated note. This was not the choice of the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development. It is the way we structure the Order Paper. It could come as Order of the Day Number 32, 52 or 75, we thought that the motions per ministry, were put in alphabetical order.
Nevertheless, today I submit to this House that the Ministry of
Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development think highly of this motion and would like to thank the members who debated and gave a robust debate on it.
The Ministry commemorates together with the nation the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence which run each year from the
25th of November to 10th of December. The theme for the past year was,
‘From Peace in The Home, to Peace in the World: Let us Unite to end Gender Based violence’.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Ministry kicked off the year’s commemorations with a press statement on the 25th of November, 2016, paving way for several activities that were carried out around the country. On the Saturday of 10th of December, 2016, the Ministry held the national commemoration in Harare. We did this deliberately on the last day of the 16 days to ensure that we mark the beginning of 365 days of action against gender-based violence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Ministry has since 2010 adopted the 365 days approach with the 16 days only utilised to amplify voices together with our partners and organisations and make the noise a little more louder in raising concern on gender-based violence. Basically, the 16 days are there to spell out the theme of the United Nations (UN).
Let me furnish this august House that every single day, week and month, the Ministry carries out activities targeted at preventing and responding to gender-based violence. We are working with religious and traditional leaders, communities, young girls and boys daily to address the scourge of gender-based violence.
The Ministry is running One-Stop-Centers in Rusape, Gweru and Gwanda which provide a complete service package for survivors in the form of legal aid, counselling, health services as well as police services. This is to get response and help for the survivor in one area because in the past, you would go to the police camp before the Ministry intervened and you are told to go and get the address of the perpetrator. On getting to the hospital, you would be told that such a machine or liquid is not available and the poor survivor is shuttled around for help which they do not have. So the Ministry saw it fit that we build these One-StopCenters. All the services are free of charge and critical to ensure genderbased violence survivors have their dignity restored.
The Ministry is in the process of setting up additional One-StopCenters in Masvingo and Mashonaland Central. I assure you that all ten provinces will be covered soon with the pace and the way we are engaging our partners and all the well wishers.
The Ministry continues, Mr. Speaker Sir, to work so well with the media who provide a very useful platform to raise awareness on genderbased violence. Every day we read stories in the press of deterrent sentences passed for convicted rapists, an issue which we want the public to know that if you rape, you will be locked up in jail. Let me add on that with the press on our side, we are able to read every minute, from every type of media, be it print or electronic media about these issues. You will recall that last week there was a case at Emganwini where a young man butchered up his mother into pieces before burying her and so forth. So there is no time to rest for the Ministry or our partners.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Members, we must know that the media is in our courts and is a powerful tool to send out messages and information every single day of the year. Our partnership with the media will ensure that every day 24/7, we reach out to Zimbabweans with information on gender-based violence. You will recall that through the partnership with the police, we agreed and it is happening that there be third party reporting because some people are not able or asked to hide any form of gender-based violence because it is done by a relative or somebody who is the income earner in the home. So, we have agreed that there be third party reporting, which has been taking place. I am sure you have seen that if it is a young girl or boy at the school, this thing is reported through a secret to the next person whom they confide in and then it gets to the apprehension of the perpetrator. We are not resting and there is no honeymoon for the Ministry. We are using every way to engage partners, even those that are well-wishers are very welcome to come to the Ministry and we strategise other new tactics, be it ICT or whatever.
In conclusion, several activities are done so well using the 10-Point Plan directive on Private Public Partnerships. This we do by working together with civil society partners such as Musasa Project, Padare, Women’s Action Group, Say What, Shamwari yeMwanasikana and I am sure that you have seen Dr Rebecca Chisamba’s Show now incorporates a lot of these activities through dialogue. So, we are not resting on our laurels Mr. Speaker Sir. All these complement Government efforts in raising awareness on the negative effects of gender based violence. We are to seek help should it happen to anybody. So, I urge Hon. Members to join the crew in the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development in their constituencies to encourage people to speak out, not to seal in information. This way, we will get a long way and the motion will get two times 365 days attention. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. First of all, I would like to thank all Hon. Members who contributed to this very important motion on the 16 Days of Activism against Gender Based Violence. I would also like to thank Hon. Deputy Minister Damasane for responding to this motion and for advising us that as a Ministry, they have already 365 Days of Activism against Gender Based Violence as opposed to the 16 days. I hope that their efforts will ensure that violence against women and girls is ended. So, I would like to thank you all and move that this motion be adopted:
Motion that this House:
NOTING that the 16 days of Activism against gender-based violence campaign is a time to galvanise action to end violence against women and girls around the world.
ACKNOWLEDGING that in 2016 the ‘Unite Campaign’ strongly emphasises the need for sustainable financing for efforts to end violence against women and girls towards the fulfillment of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development.
RECOGNIZING that this year’s theme is “From Peace in the Home to Peace in the World, Make education Accessible and Affordable for Women and Girls and end Violence against Women and Girls”
CONCERNED that violence against women and girls happens 365 days and yet this campaign is for 16 days, from 25 November to 10 December.
NOW THEREFORE, this august House calls upon:
- The Ministry of Women Affairs and Women’s Organisations to campaign throughout the whole year and advocate for ending violence against women and girls. They must not limit the campaign to 16 days; and
- The government to make sure that Agenda 2030 for Sustainable Development is funded to fulfill these goals; put and agreed to.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI seconded by HON. D. SIBANDA, the House adjourned at Twenty-Nine Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.