PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 4th May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Agriculture (Livestock), Hon. Zhanda. What assistance are you giving to farmers to enable them to harvest maize considering that we have a bumper harvest and it is still raining?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): I want to thank Hon. Sen.
Chimbudzi for the question. I believe I once answered such a question.
There are measures in place to ensure that farmers do not lose crops.
Government has combined harvesters which are functional and for those that are dysfunctional, Government is taking measures to repair them to help farmers harvest wheat. Madam President, some of the maize still has moisture and the Government is looking at how many dryers are available. The Government has also taken measures to repair the dysfunctional machines that dry maize. We must dry the maize first before taking it to GMB.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you very much.
My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development. I would like to thank you for the arrangement which you made that the entire diamond minerals in the country are now under the production of the Government. You did put up a consolidated company and you promised that it will be functional. We would like to know the progress in establishing this company because we want the country to benefit from the diamonds.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MOYO): Thank you Madam President.
There are some issues which are a problem in this consolidated company. We have three problems. The first problem is that there are some issues which are sub judice and have to be worked out before full implementation. The second problem we face is sourcing for mining equipment in order that we can be able to dig out the ore so that we can have enough diamond to reach our planned target. The third problem is for us to have the necessary equipment and the qualified personnel to be able to quantify the amount of diamond underground; exploration of the quantity of the diamond mineral in the country. If we can work all these we will be able to implement the production of the diamond in the country because we need machines which will drill and also, the cleaning of the diamonds. When we are through with this, especially having gone through this case which is sub judice. We will be able to expand our production. We now have two companies which had stopped production but what is now happening is that these companies have now been merged into one. We are now mining diamonds at a reasonable place. I am sure the diamond production is on the increase. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: My question goes to the Minister of
Mines and Mining Development. What is the threat of synthetic diamonds on the future of natural diamonds?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): I thank the Hon. Senator for asking that question on synthetic diamonds. The synthetic diamonds are diamonds which are manufactured in a laboratory using chemicals. They are not natural. The natural diamonds are the ones which are God given and are found underground. When we talk of the synthetic diamonds, they were initially developed to be used in machines which cut other metals because by nature diamonds are the hardest and strongest metal of all the minerals we have. Diamonds can cut through any metal or any material. What is happening is that there are now plans that these synthetic diamonds be used to replace the natural diamonds in manufacturing items such as rings, bracelets and other decoratives.
There are plans for the replacement of these natural diamonds. We have noticed that we have people who are qualified who are able to differentiate the natural diamonds from synthetic diamonds. They believe that the natural diamonds will always be more precious than the synthetic ones and therefore we are asking people who are mining the diamonds that they should be able to do their production at a low cost. These are a favourite of the market because they are more favoured than the synthetic diamonds. There could be a problem but this could be a very small problem in that these natural diamonds need to be produced at a competitive cost so that they retain their value against the synthetic diamonds. Let me point out that the comparative of these diamonds - the synthetic and the natural is not a phenomenon peculiar to Zimbabwe but it is international.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: My question goes to the Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Services in relation to the aged. What is the policy or how are we solving the issue of the aged going to the banks to collect money where they do not get the money and they are told to come the next day. What is the Ministry’s policy on reducing this problem being faced by the elderly?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I
would like to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for that question. As the issue stands and regrettably, I do not think there is a deliberate policy earmarked towards that. In society right now there is a general understanding that we are supposed to give the aged priority in our dealings. We see that happening in most of the retail outlets where a special queue or jumping the queue - we accord that respect as a civilized society to our elderly. I would like to think that that should be happening with the banks as well. We can motivate the banks to work in that regard. I do agree with you that probably there might be need to come up with a detailed policy in that regard. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: My question goes again to the Deputy
Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. We so heard that in the Export Processing Zones, the labour laws will not apply. What is the rationale in terms of that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I
would like to thank Hon. Sen. Makore for that question. The position he brings up is not the correct one. In fact, our President is on record saying that there is no way we can make the labour laws not applicable in the Special Economic Zones. That Bill was indeed returned to Parliament, if you remember very well specifically to address that issue that we cannot bypass provisions of the Labour Act, Chapter 28:01 because it is particularly related to the Constitution of this country. There is no way that the particular Act would follow through. The correct position is that labour laws albeit amended will be applying in the Special Economic Zones. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: My question is directed to the
Deputy Minister of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services. May you tell this House what Government policy is when it comes to broadcasting because there are many stations that are talking about politics yet we do not have stations that talk about religion? What measures is the Government putting in place so that there can be radio stations on religion? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
want to thank the chief for the good question. If we were not here today, we would be going round the country touring and telling people about upcoming and expanding programmes on broadcasting. If we have digitalization, it would enable broadcasting to be broad because we will have about 12 stations to be used by whoever. What it means is that whoever wishes to broadcast on religion, sports, entertainment, music, children, women, and education, there will be those 12 channels to broadcast to the nation. There are a few religious programmes now and there will be an opportunity 24 hours per day for 365 days. There will be channels broadcasting on religion or other programmes that I have mentioned above. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: Thank you Madam President.
My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Throughout the past years, farmers were not getting their monies on time after depositing their grains at the Grain Marketing Board, what plans have you put in place to alleviate this problem since this year we are going to have a bumper harvest through Command Agriculture.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): I know in the past we had problems in paying out the farmers but in 2016, there were remedies put in place and farmers were paid on time for grain delivered to the Grain Marketing Board. I am saying the farmers were paid in a short space of time because they were paid in a period of less than a month after depositing their grains. When we export our goods, we are paid in a period of between two and three months but as we speak now, Government has given enough funds to the Grain Marketing Board to pay the farmers soon after delivery. Government is also working hand in hand with manufacturers and millers so that they deposit their money with the G.M.B so that when maize is delivered, the farmers are paid on time and these grain millers and other private sectors benefit. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Labour and Social Welfare. As a Minister responsible for the workers and social welfare, we have people who are living with disability who were fired from Leonard Cheshire Home and they were advised to go to Ruwa Rehabilitation Center. However, they are saying Ruwa Rehabilitation is not suitable according to their disability, so they are now living in the open, exposed to the vagaries of the weather. Now, that they have that stand of, what is your Ministry doing about that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam President.
I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Machingaifa for that question.
However, Madam President, if you refer to the Order Paper, Hon. Sen. Shiri had asked the very same question. I have got a detailed response to that question, so can I tackle it at that point. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Mines; what Government policy do you have on ZMDC where people lost their jobs and these people are not employed and were not given any packages, they do not know that the company has been closed and are struggling in raising their children.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam President. ZMDC is a Government company. At the moment it has a lot of mines - we have three gold mines; Sabi mine in Zvishavane was closed but is being resuscitated. As I am speaking right now, the chiefs in
Zvishavane are at the mine being informed by the management that the mine is now working. So those who were employed at that mine will get back their jobs. The second mine is Jena in Silobela, we had some challenges, it was about to close but we are in the process of giving them money so that the mine would re-open. The workers are not being paid but if we chip in as we did in Sabi, I think it will be well. With regards to the one in Chegutu, the pillars in the mines collapsed so we are looking for investors whom we can work with. We are planning that the money that we got from Korea and China, if we get the money we can channel some of the funds there so that workers will be re-employed and get paid.
However, on this mine, we should look at exploration and sink a new shaft because the shaft which was there collapsed. We have other mines like Mhangura, those ones I am not very sure whether we will be able to re-open them. In Alaska, the smeltering, there is a chance that if we can find some people who have the technology, we can re-open the plant. We can also engage Zambia because they have their trucks which carry copper which they export to China, so we can engage them so that we can also do the same and export minerals as well.
ZCDC works under the ZMDC, there are also challenges which are there, which we are looking into. All these mines had some challenges. It is very difficult for ZMDC to get funding from all these companies, so they will not be able to pay their employees. Yes, it is very true that they have gone for several months without salaries but we are working tirelessly to solve that. So, we can only refurbish these mines so that we will be able to pay these workers. We do not want this to continue, we are working very hard so that the issues at ZMDC will be solved. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. BHEBE: My question is directed to the Minister of
Information, Media and Broadcasting Services, the Hon. Deputy Minister Mathuthu. Just a few days ago, there was a launch of languages to be used in broadcasting. When are you going to start those languages in broadcasting?
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, MEDIA
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Thank you Madam President, I also thank Hon. Sen. Bhebhe for the pertinent question. Only if she had been watching the news bulletin that was broadcast yesterday afternoon before 1800 hrs would she have realised that the news was broadcast in a variety of languages. We have already started using other languages.
It is just unfortunate that you were not available to watch these broadcasts as we have already started using the nine languages that we launched in Bulawayo last week with the exception of just a few other languages that we are yet to hire people with the requisite skills in the language like San. We are yet to engage someone who can speak ‘Sili’ language though I do not like using the word ‘Sili’ which is the language that is used by the San to broadcast to them so that they are not frustrated. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Hon. Minister, we continue to confront a very sorry state of affairs when we visit our foreign missions, whether in Africa or outside. It is a sorry state and a desperate situation where diplomats are not being paid; their belongings and clothes are found strewn outside their homes due to rentals owed even in the houses that they live in. We have quite a number of foreign missions, maybe up to 50. What plans does the Ministry of Foreign Affairs have in place because our financial situation continues to be in a sorry state and does not seem to be getting any better any time soon? What plans do you have in place to deal with that serious problem? Even local staff are not being paid and diplomats in Zimbabwe are being paid in Zimbabwe but can only access $50.00 from the banks with their Visa cards. One cannot build up a rental of $2000.00 from a daily withdrawal of $50.00.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON. MBWEMBWE): Thank you very much Madam President. I want to
thank the Hon. Sen. for the question. I think it is a very good question and we continue to reiterate that what is happening at our missions and embassies is a reflection of the economic challenges that we face back home. So their situation is not any different from what we are experiencing back home.
However, as a ministry, we continue to make efforts to make their situation less difficult and ameliorate the situation. We have about 45 embassies including consulates. We have looked at them, their structures, downsized where possible and abolished some positions where possible, all in an effort to try and make sure that we have something that is manageable in the hope that the limited resources that we have will be able to cater for the remaining staff. However the situation continues to be dire and as a Ministry, we will continue to make efforts to better their situation. I think it also calls upon us as legislators to continue to make an appeal to Treasury to allocate more resources in terms of the budget to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Minister, what measures is your ministry taking to improve international relations as a way to woe investors, given that we are engaging foreign embassies and do not know how much they have done for them to justify their existence?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON. MBWEMBWE): Thank you Madam President and I thank the Hon.
Senator for the very pertinent question. Let me start by saying that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is the window through which we interact with the international world. The efforts and programme of improving our relationship with the international community are the effects that we are doing back home in terms of ensuring that Zimbabwe is an attractive investment destination. I think that is what you are asking about in terms of what we are doing to improve our relations so that people are happy to come and invest back home.
I think that maybe my colleagues in the Ministry of Industry and commerce and Ministry of Finance will be able to competently respond to that but as Ministry of Foreign Affairs, we have been doing everything possible to make sure that we are able to market the economic reforms that we are carrying to do with the ease of doing business, One Stop Shop, regulatory environment that we are improving as part of reforms to try and attract international investment. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, Hon. Eng. Matangaidze. Hon. Minister, do you have measures in place for people who are working in forestry plantations in Manicaland who have gone for months without getting their salaries? They cannot look after their families, what plans do you have in place for these people to survive? Now schools are about to open and they do not have goats to pay school fees with.
* THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chabuka for her question that is directly linked to forestry issues and thus becomes specific. So I think we should engage the companies, management and the employees so that they can come up with payment plans for employees to get their salaries.
There are measures that Government has in place when companies do not pay their employees. They approach the courts but looking at the prevailing economic environment and before we take that route, there are ways where people can engage each other to resolve such matters. So before we take any other measures, I think our labour officers should engage management and find out where their challenges are so that we can map a way forward, but if we fail, then we can take the other routes. For now, I implore that the employees and the workers should come together and show each other the challenges they are facing for them to work together. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. Recently, there was a report in the print media that the street children organised a clean-up campaign in the streets of Harare. Is this a declaration that they are saying this is our permanent home? If not, what measure is the Government taking to reduce or eradicate the number of children who are still residing in the streets, who most of them are not attending any formal schools. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Madam President and Hon. Senator for your intervention. Madam President, our Ministry is on record even in this august Senate saying that the place of the child is in school and every child has a right to decent upbringing. The decent upbringing only comes up in a family structure, in a homely environment where the child has access to good feeding, good moral values as they grow up. We do not believe that they can get those good moral values and good upbringing in the streets.
So, our first point of call is to take those kids from the streets into provided homes.
We are moving away from even the provided homes, dormitory set up of the provided homes into homes which are reflective of the homely environment which every other school going kid goes through. As Government, we are willing to partner private voluntary organisations in coming up with these homes where children living on the streets can be brought into these homes. At our last count which was some 3 to 4 years ago Hon. Senator, we discovered that we had about up to 5000 kids who are living in the streets.
We believe that this is not an insurmountable task to take them out and put them into the structured homes that we are talking about. To do that, we require assistance from society as well. Some of us do encourage children to stay on the streets. We do have funds that we want to extend to these children on the streets. We are saying - why not formalize the way we give assistance to children on the streets. If we formalize, instead of doing it in a haphazard manner where you drive up to the traffic lights, you take your left over from Chicken Inn or wherever and give the child who is on the streets. You are promoting that because the child knows that by staying on the streets, they will still get assistance on the streets. You are giving them money and if it is a girl child that you are giving money at the tender age of 10 or 12, we believe you are not promoting that girl child by giving them money.
So, as a society, I think it is a challenge to all of us to put our heads together and support these institutions that Government and the private voluntary organisations are coming up with and we channel funds towards that direction. We see in certain instances where children on the streets are compelled to join in illegal strikes and issues like that. So, it is actually wrong when you as a leader, you are getting a disadvantaged child to engage in those immoral activities, to engage in wrong things to serve a purpose, maybe political purpose so, we are saying let us support the institutions which are in place right now. We believe the number that we are dealing with is not too big. It is not insurmountable; we can actually address the issue about children on the streets. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. Hon. Minister, how can your Ministry assist the disabled who are found at the Beitbridge Border Post to get decent accommodation as they are found 24/7 and yet the border is the face of Africa and there are a lot of tourists crossing over there? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for that question. Again on that one, if you go to the Order Paper, questions 27, 28 and 29 talk to the disability policies and what Government is doing to come up with positive interventions to bring about positive change and make better the lives of people living with disabilities. May I request that when I have adequately covered those which I will do today; if there are any supplementary questions, then I will take that because I believe
it embeds with the National Disability Policy which we are trying to work on so, with your indulgence Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: The questions that the Minister is
referring to are not specific. My question is specifically on the Beitbridge Border Post.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: What I was alluding to was that
as things stand right now, there is no deliberate policy targeting an affirmative action towards availing houses to the disabled in our society. We believe that should a policy like that come through, that say, for argument’s sake there are 10 thousand stands in Beitbridge, there has to be an allocation of 8% to 10% of the stands that should go towards the disabled people in our society because 8% - 10% of our population comprises of people living with disabilities.
So, should a policy come like that and we need to be advocating for that policy to come through, then that will adequately address those issues. Like I have said, 8% - 10% of the Zimbabwean population is living with disability. If we then say whatever split of every programmes that Government institutes, whatever split has to reflect in the 8% - 10% being covered, then it comes up as a framework that is implementable that can adequately cover the challenge that Hon. Sen.
Mohadi is talking about.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. My question goes to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. What I would like to know is, what policy framework has been developed or is being developed to limit the number of disputes in the gold mining area in view of the estimated loss of up to about US$5m as presented in the media every month?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam President.
The Senator’s question is very pertinent. Yes, it is very true, we are losing a lot of gold but to account for it we do not know because the numbers that the media talks about is different. Gold is lost in many ways. Gold is lost when it is being exported because the owners are holding on to it. According to our Act, if you have gold and you do not have a licence, you will be prosecuted despite how you would have obtained the gold. They will not declare the gold, that is problem number one. The second challenge is that, right now we do not have money circulating in the country, so the people who have gold, if they want to sell it and do not get cash – or they want to sell on Sunday when banks are closed and they come across someone who wants to buy the gold and they get money, they will sell it. If that person is buying unlawfully, that gold is lost.
There is also gold which is lost when there is a wrangle and people take each other to court. What happens is that the court will give a ruling that you should stop working together and they will be fighting for whatever would be coming out of the mine. If they sell anything during that period of a wrangle, people will clamour for compensation. So, these parties are stopped from operating until they have solved their issues. This gold is not lost because someone has taken it but because production would have been stopped.
What I really want you to know is that some people borrow money from the bank and attach their houses as collateral and when their operations are stopped, it means that they will lose their houses and they become homeless. That is a major challenge we face. We are saying that now we are buying machinery, there is the GPS which is like a phone which can be used on your claims. If that one is entered in our computers at the Ministry, no one can go and claim possession of that mining claim again. That is the programme that we are embarking on and it is called Cadastre. It is like here in towns where we have computers – that is why you find that urban stands are not haphazard because they are computerised and that is the programme which we want to introduce as well. It will take a bit of time but once it is in place, I think all these challenges will be a thing of the past.
However, what we encourage is that there are people who claim mines which are not theirs, there are some errors which we encounter in our offices because of lack of due diligence. There are some who are just criminals and some are jealousy of other people who are making money and claim other people’s properties. We are solely responsible but some of the challenges are due to people who are not doing their work properly and also the machinery which is outdated which we are using. We want to help each other so that we work together amicably and avoid tempting the people in our offices and ourselves as well. We should expedite the computerisation of this programme just like in other countries.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, since this is a common phenomena of dispute, would it not be possible for the Minister to draft clear guidelines that people should use prior to going to courts. I acknowledge your point about the delays in the legal system?
HON. F. MOYO: It is possible. In fact, two weeks ago, I had a meeting and a discussion with the Judge President. He gave us indications of what we could do as a Ministry discussing with the relevant arm of our courts to create a situation where it is not possible for people to rush to courts before the Minister has made a final decision. This is because once the matter has gone to court, the
Minister’s hands are tied.
The courts are agreeing to say yes, there is a possibility where we could create an environment that allows all the processes within the Ministry to be completed before the matter is taken outside. So, we are trying to look into that. We think that we could also lessen the burden if there was moral behaviour on all those who are involved in mining. We have shifted from agriculture into mining, so there is a stamped for claims. We are doing chrome claims now and we are getting the same stampede such that there is violence on the mines because people see it as the next opportunity of growth in the sector of the economy. So we just need to all put our heads together and try to make this sector work in a civilised way because at the moment we have problems as you said.
Thank you.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. My question goes to the Hon. Minister of Mines and Mining Development. Hon. Minister, considering that so many people have now been issued with mining claims and also that you are on record telling the nation and this House how much you would love to assist the small scale miners and so on, I and the nation would like to know whether in the farming areas we are coming out of the woods? Are we also coming out of the woods in the mining industry? If so, how do we measure that? Thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam President. I
do hold the same feeling, not only at a personal level but as Government and Ministry that there is an opportunity there; there is an economic opportunity for small scale miners. All other sectors of the economy have got SMEs, be it agriculture, tourism, education, hospitality and so on. So there will be that opportunity in mining as well and that is what we are trying to create. That is Government policy. We are in fact under pressure from Government to say, move with speed to formalise the activities of small scale miners.
Unfortunately, small scale miners come in two forms. There are those who legally hold title, who are operating in an institutionalised manner and those who do not have any title who are not of fixed aboard who tend to migrate from area to area. That is where our challenge is. When we go to those who are structured, I can confirm that the national body, Zimbabwe Miners Federation formed by Government has got reasonable records which we are looking at. We are actually trying to make sure that those are now readable and dependable.
However, when it comes to the miners whom we are calling makorokoza, they do not stay in one area. Once somebody says gold has been found in this district, they can travel across the country and they are working there, they have no house, they sleep in the bush and this is where we have a challenge. If you ask us how many these are, we actually do not know. What we are trying to do now is to work with the other Ministries, particularly the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to try and see how we can assist this group of miners. They work for other people who have got claims, they go in, either they formalise and dig ground with these people who have got title and they are charged a commission or they simply go and work, which is referred to as trespassing. These are the people I was saying when they find gold they will not come forward because they do not have any paper work to say how they got that gold.
So the formalised ones, we are getting somewhere, the monies that we are bringing in to capacitate – this is the group that we are capacitating which I would encourage Hon. Senators here - those who are interested, to enter that sector. Those who are not structured, yes, we have a challenge. We still have to get to the bottom of it - who are they, where did they come from, where do they work, do they have IDs, is it a mother, father or a child, state of health and so on. That is a big challenge for us but we are trying to see how best we can unravel that. I hope I have answered your question. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Mines and Mining Development. The question is, time and again we read in the media of gold and diamond minerals which have been discovered at some place or the other. When these minerals have been discovered at roadblocks, usually they are taken by the police. Will these minerals which are impounded at roadblocks be kept by the police or they are deposited into your custody. What is the process?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): What I expect is that there should be a decrease in the number of minerals which are impounded by the police. What is happening is that the minerals which are impounded at roadblocks are taken by the police to be used as evidence of a crime which has been committed. When the courts are through and judgment has been passed, the minerals are taken back to the Ministry. When you go to the archives, right now we do not have such minerals there. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT, in terms of Standing Order Number 62
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
REVIVAL OF THE THULI COAL MINE IN BEITBRIDGE WEST
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development whether the Ministry has plans to revive the Thuli
Coal Mine in Beitbridge West.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thuli Coal Mine is under
Special Grant (SG) 4541. The SG was initially issued to Firmo (Pvt) Ltd on the 30th June, 2006 for a period of 5 years, expiring on the 29th June, 2011. Exploration and mining was done during this period. However, mining operations stopped in 2010.
The SG was subsequently renewed in the name of Thuli Coal (Pvt) Ltd for a period of five years from 2nd October, 2012 and expires on 1st October, 2017. There has been no mining activity during this period.
However, the Special Grant has since been taken over by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe who are the major shareholders in Thuli Coal (Pvt)
Ltd.
There is exploration going on which started in June 2016. The current exploration is to come up with a feasibility study report with resource and reserve estimations. Thuli Coal Mine is, therefore, in operation with exploration underway.
MEASURES TO ENSURE THAT MINING FIRMS REHABILITATE
THE ENVIRONMENT DEGRADED BY MINING OPERATIONS
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to explain the measures the Ministry is taking to ensure that mining firms rehabilitate the environment degraded by mining operations.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Rehabilitation challenges cover
historical, current and future activities. Historical challenges will be difficult to correct from a funding perceptive as some companies have since closed. Government will have to come up with a policy on how this is going to be corrected going forward. Current activities will be carried out in compliance with current laws of the country. The Ministry has completed decentralization exercise or programme which has seen an increase in human capacity in the provinces and hence should be able to monitor mines better. The amendments to the Mines and Minerals
Act which are under review propose to make it mandatory for miners to have the prospectus from the EMA authority to ensure mining operations are conducted in an environmentally friendly manner. The Ministry itself also through the same amendments to the Act seeks to establish a rehabilitation fund which should be supported by mining activities current cash flows to make sure that rehabilitation is effectively done. I thank you.
PLANS TO BOOST AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION IN RURAL
AREAS
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Agriculture,
Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to explain the following:
- Plans in place to boost Agricultural production in rural areas.
- Measures in place to capacitate the local fertilizer companies so that they are fully operationally;
- How people in communal areas benefit from Command Agriculture Programmes are going to benefit people living with disabilities;
- Whether the Ministry has any plans aimed at training rural people in obtaining Master Farmer certificates as was the issue earlier on;
- Whether the Ministry has any plans of resuscitating the District Development Fund (DDF) Tillage Unit to boost tillage programmes in the country;
- What the Ministry intends to do with obsolete equipment as a way of ensuring that it does not fall into wrong hands.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Mr. President. The
response is as follows:-
- The Presidential input Scheme, irrigation development, rehabilitation and modernization projects, more food Africa project, the cotton input scheme, the livestock input scheme and provision of extension services are all aimed at boosting agricultural production across the country.
- This question has been misdirected on fertilizer production since it falls under the purview of the Ministry of Industry and Commerce.
- Command Agriculture targets all productive farmers willing to enter into contract with the Government and does not consider disability.
- The master farmer training is now under the department of extension and is ongoing despite the financial challenges. (e)The question has been misdirected as the District
Development Fund is not under the purview of the Ministry of Agriculture.
(f) The Ministry disposes obsolete equipment under its purview in accordance with the set down procedures by the Treasury.
I thank you.
SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY PERFORMING ABOVE
EXPECTATIONS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Industry and
Commerce, to inform the House the sectors of the economy which are performing above expectations, given the fact that there is no tangible economic growth in the face of continued company closures in all urban centres.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Mr. President Sir, firstly, allow me to apologise that I came in late due to a commitment that I thought was going to finish on time, I was discussing with people who came from outside the country. Having said that Mr. President Sir, I am here to respond to a very pertinent question asked by Hon. Sen. Chimhini – Hon. Senators will appreciate that although the economy is facing a myriad of challenges, there are sectors that are performing above expectation. The implementation of the economic blueprint, the ZIM ASSET and the Ten Point Plan, have been pillars to the resurgence of some economic sectors in the value addition and beneficiation cluster.
May I also highlight that the implementation of various Statutory
Instruments among them the famous Statutory Instrument Number 64 of
2016, which are strategies to revive local industries have played a key role in meeting these objectives. Members of this august House will recall that a recent survey conducted by the Confederation of Zimbabwe Industries highlighted that the average capacity utilization significantly increased from 34, 3% in 2015 to 47, and 4% in 2016. This marked increase is indicative of some sectors that are performing above expectations.
May I inform Hon. Members that the Agro-processing sector has generally performed above expectations and US154 million dollars has so far been invested? Within that sector and edible oil sub-sector has increased capacity utilization from about 10% to an average now of 90% - this industry has also attracted $60 million in investment. Refurbished existing equipment and has created additional 500 new jobs. The cooking oil industry has also witnessed the entrance of new players that have invested to produce edible oils and other related products.
In addition, the yeast industry that almost closed managed to attract new investment and is now operating at 90% capacity utilization. The biscuit manufacturing sector has gone up from 35% to 75%. The detergent industry has increased capacity utilisation from 30% to 60%, largely as a result of increased investment especially in new technology.
The personal care products sector improved from around 30% to an average of 50%, with Medichem experiencing an increase in demand of over 300%. The pharmaceutical sector has witnessed growth from around 30% to now 65%. A variety of drugs are now being produced locally and some players have increased their drug production. The furniture sector has also witnessed increases in the production of bedding and related goods, with capacity utilization improving from 45% to the current 70%. One of the companies has also commenced exports of bedding within the region and has increased working hours in order to meet demand for the products.
Downstream industries such as label and plastic packaging suppliers have also realised positive results from the improvements in the production levels of various companies. As a result, capacity utilization in the plastics packaging industry has increased from 37% to 60%. These companies are also investing in new technologies in order to meet the required standards.
New investment in the chemicals and plastic sector totaling around US$3, 5 million was realised during the period. Nelspot Investments, Pro-plastics and General Belting invested in a bottleblowing, PVC and high pressure pump machinery respectively. The former recently introduced a new washing powder soap which is called
‘Spotless’, through a subcontract with a Mauritian company. The cement manufacturing industry invested nearly US$200 million whilst the dairy sector mobilised a total of US$746 000.00 and out of that, about US$520 000.00 was used to purchase 400 heifers in September
2016 to boost local milk production under the Dairy Industry Revitalisation Fund. This is being led by the sister ministry, the Ministry of Agriculture and the Department of Livestock.
A combined increase in employment was realised from 2 663 to 3
423 workers disaggregated as follows:-
- synthetic fibre sector – Blue Track and Sensational have increased their employment work from 550 in 2015 to 1 050 in 2016.
- plastic sectors from 2 070 to 2 272.
- personal care products from 43 to now above a 100.
Government appreciates that there are some sectors that still face challenges and will continue to implement policy measures to address these. Chief among the challenges are delays being encountered in foreign currency payments across all sectors of the economy that has affected the manufacturing sector. The delays have affected the importation of raw materials, equipment spares, consumables required by the sectors hence affecting local industry’s capacity to produce. However some sectors have responded to our interventions and are performing above expectation as just outlined. I thank you.
PROVISION OF TRANSPORT TO AGRICULTURE EXTENSION
OFFICERS
- HON. SEN. GOTO asked the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development –
- to inform the House what plans the Ministry has in place to provide adequate transport to Agriculture Extension Officers in order to enable them to monitor command agriculture, in view of the fact that the current fleet is inadequate;
- to state the steps taken by the Ministry to ensure adequate provision of stationery to the Agriculture Extension officers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Hon. President. If you
look at the Order Paper, you will realise that this question has been outstanding for a while. The first time I came here to answer the question, the Hon. Senator was not around and I made a written submission. When I returned the following week, it was still appearing on the Order Paper. Again when I was about to leave, I pointed out to you that I had already responded to the question. With your indulgence, in view of the fact that the Hon. Senator comes from my home area, I can answer the question again. – [Laughter.] –
The responses to the Hon. Senator’s questions are as follows:-
- The Ministry has purchased 200 motor bikes and 58 vehicles to facilitate monitoring of the Special Maize Programme which we termed ‘Command Agriculture’ which have been distributed to agricultural extension workers. There are plans to purchase more if financial resources are availed.
- The Ministry provides stationery and other office consumables used by agricultural extension officers when Treasury releases financial resources. I thank you.
PROGRESS MADE ON THE ALIGNMENT OF THE
DISABLED PERSONS ACT
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare to update the House on the progress made in the alignment of the Disabled Persons Act (Cap 17:01) 1992, with the current Constitution following nationwide consultations made by the Ministry on the Act since 2016.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
President Sir, allow me to start by commending Hon. Sen. Mashavakure for executing his representative mandate well over the years. Indeed, his ability and that of Hon. Sen. Shiri, to identify and articulate pressing rights and welfare issues affecting people with disabilities in our jurisdiction will be remembered as a hallmark of disability rights advocacy. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
Zimbabwe adopted a new Constitution in 2013. In tandem with this positive development, as Hon. Members of this House might be aware, the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare had consultations on the alignment of the Disabled Persons Act (Chapter 17:01) to the Constitution of Zimbabwe. The consultations were held in all the provinces of Zimbabwe with technical support from the interministerial task force on the alignment of Acts to the Constitution. The
Ministries of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and Women’s
Affairs, Gender and Community Development played an important role in facilitating. The Chairperson of the National Disability Board was also present during these consultations. The consultations were aimed at generating stakeholders’ input to inform amendments of the Disabled Persons Act.
In January 2017, a consolidated report of the proceedings was compiled. We are currently in the process of formulating Draft
Principles that will be submitted to the Cabinet Committee on
Legislation for onward due verification and validation processes.
The Government will continue to engage society to convey their views about fundamental matters affecting persons with disabilities. This is critically important and should not be left to persons with disabilities alone, but all Zimbabweans willing to contribute in the process of sustainable development of our country. I thank you Mr.
President Sir.
MEASURES TO DOMESTICATE THE U.N. CONVENTION ON
THE RIGHTS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House what measures the Ministry is taking to domesticate the U. N. Convention on the rights of persons with disabilities either through the alignment of the Disabled Persons Act of 1992 to the Constitution so that it incorporates the convention into the national law or to alternatively domesticate the UNCRPD separately.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): We
need to give due acknowledgement to the objectives of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities to ensure equal rights to persons with disabilities by elaborating in detail the rights of persons with disabilities and setting out a code of implementation. Indeed, this convention is a milestone in the global battles to reframe and realise the ideals of persons with disabilities as human rights. The Republic of
Zimbabwe ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of
Persons with Disabilities on the 23rd of September, 2013.
It is worth noting that our constitutional founding values and principles recognise the inherent dignity and equal worth of all human beings. This provision and indeed many others in our legislative framework mirror some of the general principles underlying the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
Section 22 under National Objectives is an expression of intent and commitment by the State to meet goals of development for the disability fraternity. Section 83 makes explicit constitutional commitment towards the realisation of economic, social and cultural rights of persons with disabilities.
Mr. President, having said the foregoing, it is important to note that Zimbabwe remains committed to ensuring the full and effective inclusion of persons with disabilities in the development agenda. As outlined, our laws are in tandem with the aims and spirit of the UNCRPD. As such, domestication of the UNCRPD will be undertaken through the Disabled Persons Act Amendment Bill. This will incorporate the provisions of this important human rights instrument. I thank you.
PROGRESS MADE ON THE FORMULATION AND
ESTABLISHMENT OF A NATIONAL DISABILITY POLICY
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Services to inform the Senate the progress made in the formulation and establishment of a National Disability Policy.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
President, let me start by informing this Hon. Senate that this policy is a culmination of extensive consultation with Disabled Persons Organisations (DPOs), relevant line ministries, academic community and human rights organisations. It is a consolidation of inputs from all these stakeholders. The purpose of the National Disability Policy is to provide coordinated guidance in the development of social services intervention strategies aimed at enabling independent and empowered lives for persons with disabilities.
To date, significant progress has been made. This document has been successfully considered and approved by the following Government policy fora:
- Cabinet Committee on Legislation (CCL).
- Cabinet Committee of the Working Party of Officials.
- Cabinet Committee of Ministers (Social Services and Poverty Eradication Cluster).
The proposed National Disability Policy currently awaits consideration by the Cabinet. The adoption of this document is critical in that it will offer a good yardstick, upon which we can constantly review our challenges and successes towards realisation of disability rights as human rights. I thank you.
MEASURES TO ASSIST DISABLED PERSONS
- HON. SEN. SHIRI asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to explain the circumstances where a group of disabled persons were in violation of the Constitution evicted from Leonard Cheshire institution where they had been residing for more than thirty years and if the Ministry could inform the Senate what measures had been put in place to assist these people.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
President, subsequent to sustained and prolonged legal struggles between the executive of Leonard Cheshire Disability Zimbabwe and the residents at Masterton Cheshire, the Constitutional Court on the 23rd of November, 2016 ruled in favour of the executive. The implication of the judgment was the granting of due authority to the executive to evict Masterton residents who had been refusing to vacate the residential care home for over two decades.
To date, in line with our mandate of promoting, protecting and ensuring the welfare of persons with disabilities and providing social assistance to vulnerable groups, the Ministry has undertaken several assessments and interventions aimed at ameliorating distress amongst the residents at Masterton Cheshire Homes.
Mr. President, as per assessment, chief amongst the submissions by residents, were the need for a reprieve of 3 months (7 December to 7 March) to enable them to seek alternative accommodation and an appeal for capital to initiate income generating projects. My Ministry duly relayed these appeals to the executive of the organisation, which acceded and committed to disburse a loan limit of US$800.00 to each resident.
Out of the 17 residents, only 3 submitted applications for this facility.
It is worth noting that the residents have not welcomed the idea of cooperating with the Ministry on the way forward pertaining to their welfare needs. Nevertheless, in recognition of the importance of providing a safety net for these residents, our officials have since come up with a plan to avail a smooth transition for these residents. In this regard, Ruwa National Rehabilitation Centre stands ready to provide alternative accommodation and food rations to the residents for a month upon eviction. Families of the residents will be traced to facilitate reunification. Seed capital of US$800.00 will be availed by Leonard Cheshire Disability Zimbabwe to enable initiation of income generating projects. This will be a worthwhile foundation for integration into communities.
Mr. President, the foregoing interventions put into perspective the need to prioritise the planning and development of community-based services as developmental alternatives to institutionalisation. Section 22 provides the basis and intent for living up to this ideal. In the long run, community-based models of care are socially and financially less costly than institutions.
Deinstitutionalisation aims at reforming institutional processes so as to reduce or eliminate reinforcement of dependency, hopelessness, learned helplessness, and other maladaptive behaviours. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President. We
are informed that Leonard Cheshire did change the constitution or part of it along the way. What is the legal aspect regarding an organisation which changes part of its constitution to meet its need? I thank you.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: I thank Hon. Sen. Mashavakure
for the supplementary question. When this idea was being discussed, it was before the courts and the fact that some parts of the constitution guiding Leonard Cheshire had been changed, the courts took into account all those changes. When a case is before the court, it is termed subjudice and as a Ministry, as one of the three arms of the State, we cannot interfere. We listen to what has been said by the other arm of the State which is the Judiciary. I do see those people because it is on my way whenever I am moving around. I sympathise with the people living with disability who are living in the open. I think the best we can do is to find a solution on a win-win aspect so that Leonard Cheshire is happy and people living with disability are happy.
*HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to ask my question. Hon. Minister, you have just told us that you pass through Cheshire and the people living with disability are living in the open. You are saying as a Ministry, you cannot go against the judgment of the judiciary. We are saying, as Government, when you are passing through that place and see people living with disability when we are experiencing rains and inclement weather conditions, what do you want these people to do? How do you solve such a problem because you are saying you have personally observed that? Can you afford getting sleep after observing this?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Hon. Sen. Makone for the
supplementary question. Hon. Senator, our wish as a Ministry is that there should be a solution to such a standoff. As a Ministry, we are saying, we need to hold an indaba and solve this problem. We are asking these Cheshire tenants to move into the Ruwa Rehabilitation Centre, they do not have to be staying in the open place. There is an alternative accommodation in Ruwa and they will also be fed during that time and their food will be paid for. Even if they want to go and demonstrate, whilst they are at Ruwa, there is a chance for them to go and do that and the Ministry will be looking into their problems. Further to that, we sent transport to these people who were staying at Cheshire so that we ferry them to Ruwa where there is shelter and they turned down that offer.
Let me talk about institutionalisation, it is now international. The idea of institutionalising people is now outdated. Such a vulnerable group of people should be living in families and their families should be looking after them. The idea of having people living in a dormitory is now outdated. People are moving away from institutionalization. These are families; they should be supported to have a family structure as well. Whatever assistance Government can come up with, that will give a family structure that is what people should be looking at. So people should desist from the whole concept of living in an institutionalised structure.
Yes, maybe it is a culture shift, or there is a need for a paradigm shift in their minds. Together, if we continue engaging, we will come up with appropriate solutions which do not bring in a culture shock in the way they move going forward. I thank you Mr. President.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
MEASURES TO ENSURE WOMEN ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE OF
THE WOMEN’S SOCIO-ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL RIGHTS
- HON. SEN. BUKA asked the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development, to state the measures in place to ensure that women in both urban and rural areas are knowledgeable of the women’s socio-economic and political rights as enshrined in the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS,
GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Mr. President, I would like to thank Hon. Senator Buka for raising the question and as you are all aware, my Ministry has been given the mandate to socially, economically and politically empower women as enshrined in our Constitution.
Mr. President, over and above the contributions made through input into legislative processes, the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development in conformity to the national economic blueprint the ZIM ASSET, seeks to increase and strengthen women’s participation in the economy and especially the three critical areas of mining, tourism and trade which contribute significantly to the mainstream economy.
To sufficiently address the social and political rights of women and girls, the Ministry also runs women in decision making programme where Ministry officials sensitise communities on the 50/50 principle in both rural and urban areas. The programme advocates for women to take up decision making and political positions to ensure that women’s concerns are included at all levels through their participation. Participation of women in these key decision making positions is important in pushing issues that affect them and encourage people to use a gender lenses, for example non-taxing of sanitary ware. The programme also empowers women with knowledge of their political rights. The 50/50 campaign encourages women to be actively involved in decision making and leadership fora. The campaigns are happening at provincial, district and ward levels.
Mr. President, in addition to this, the Ministry is developing an online database for professional expert women which will be useful in providing female candidates for board appointments as they arise in the ten provinces.
The Ministry is in the process of developing a strategy on women in decision making, that is in both the public and private spheres and also in politics. The main objective of the strategy is to increase the number of women in decision making at all levels. Hopefully, we hope to see this reflected in the Parliament and Senate as well as in the public and private sector.
The Ministry in partnership with partners such as ZWALA and WILSA are carrying out a programme on legal literacy where communities are sensitised on family laws as well as the gender provisions in the Constitution. The content of these sensitisation meetings includes marriage laws, inheritance laws, maintenance laws, Domestic Violence Act and the Children’s Rights. These sensitisation activities are carried out down to the ward level where a lot of women are.
I submit an attachment of the Gender Provisions in our Constitution. I thank you.
THE GENDER PROVISIONS IN THE CONSTITUTION
PREAMBLE
RECOGNISES AND ACKNOWLEDGES THE ROLE PLAYED BY BOTH WOMEN AND MEN IN THE NATIONAL LIBERATION
STRUGGLE LISTS THE VALUES EQUALITY.
2 (2) The obligations imposed by the Constitution are binding on both natural and juristic persons including State institutions.
- Values include: (e) Recognition of the inherent dignity and worth of each human being, (f) Recognition of the equality of human beings and (g) gender equality.
- Official languages are expanded to 16 and this gives women voice to participate in national development processes.
- Under empowerment and employment creation, the State is entreated to ensure appropriate and adequate measures are undertaken to create employment for all especially women and youths.
- The State should put in place to ensure food security. This is usually a woman’s role and concern.
- (1) The State must promote full gender balance in Zimbabwean society by:
- Promoting the full participation of women in all spheres on the basis of quality with men.
- (i) Taking measures to ensure that both genders are equally represented in all institutions and agencies of Government at all levels,
(ii) Women constitute at least half the members of all
Commissions and the elected and appointed governmental bodies.
17(2) The State to put in place temporary measures/affirmative action measures to rectify gender discrimination.
- Provides for Children’s Rights.
- Provides for elderly persons.
- Provides for persons with disability.
24 (2) (d) Under work and labour relation, the State and all Government agencies must endeavour to secure the implementation of measures such as care that enable women to enjoy a real opportunity to work.
- Provides protection of the family by putting in place measures for the:-
- Provision of care and assistance to mothers, fathers and others
- Family members in charge of children and
- For the prevention of domestic violence.
- Provides that marriage should be freely and voluntarily
entered into, no child pledging, equality of rights and obligations of spouses during marriage and its dissolution, provision for protection of children and spouses upon dissolution of marriage.
- Provides for the State to:-
- Take all practical measures to promote free and compulsory basic education for children and higher tertiary education and
- Ensuring that girls are afforded the same opportunities as boys to obtain education at all levels.
- The State must take all practical measures to ensure the provision of basic, accessible and adequate health services.
- Provides for domestication of International Instruments.
36 (1) (a) Women can pass citizenship to their children.
- Citizenship cannot be lost through marriage or dissolution of marriage.
48 (1) and (2) Guarantees the right to life, (d) excludes women from the death penalty.
- (3) Refers termination of pregnancy to be regulated by an Act of Parliament.
- Provides a right to inherent human dignity for every person in their private and public life and to have that dignity respected and protected.
THE ACTS THAT SUPPORT GENDER EQUALITY AND
WOMEN EMPOWERMENT
- Equal Pay Regulations (1980).
- Legal Age of Majority Act (Lama) 1982.
- Labour Relations Act (1984).
- Public Service Pensions (Amendment) Regulations (1985).
- Matrimonial Causes Act (1987).
- Maintenance Amendment Act (1989).
- The Electoral Act of 1990.
- The Administration of Estates Amendment Act (1997).
- The Sexual Offences Act (2001).
- Domestic Violence Act (2007).
ANTENATAL AND POST NATAL CARE FOR MALES
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare whether male partners attend antenatal and post natal care, in view of the fact that many children are orphaned, and if not, to state how they are encouraged to do so.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Madam
President, let me start by acknowledging that, it is indeed my Ministry that is mandated to provide care and support services to orphans and vulnerable children in Zimbabwe.
However, as we may all agree, children belong to the whole society, both men and women alike. Therefore, by the same token, the mandate of care and protection of children cuts across several line ministries and organisations. Pursuant to this understanding, the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare works closely with the Ministry of Health and Child Care to encourage the involvement of both parents or guardians, relatives and the community at large in providing care to their children as well as to orphans in our society.
However, with regards to the specific evidence based programming and policy interventions, the Ministry of Health and Child Care is better placed to respond to this matter. For example, I am aware, from my interactions with young parents, that male partners’ attendance at antenatal and post natal care sessions is directly recorded at local health service centres like clinics and hospitals in the country. This therefore should provide a worthy basis for design of strategies to encourage the participation of male partners in ante and post natal care.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I move that Order of the Day, No. 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA,
INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MATHUTHU) the Senate adjourned at Sixteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 11th May, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
INVITATION TO THE ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY
CAUCUS ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
all members of the Women’s Parliamentary Caucus that the annual
General Meeting will be held on Friday, 5th May 2017, in the Senate Chamber at 0900 hours. All documents pertaining to the meeting have been placed in the members’ pigeon holes. All members are urged to attend and to bring the required documents to the meeting.
APPOINTMENT AS CHAIRPERMSON TO THE THEMATIC
COMMITTEE ON INDEGINISATION AND EMPOWERMENT
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that Hon. Sen. Mavhunga has been appointed Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (HON. SEN. DR.
SEKERAMAYI): Madam President, I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Before this
motion goes into adjournment, I would like to appeal to the Ministers here present and those who will read the Hansard, that the mover of this motion Hon. Sen. Chipanga and the mover of the other motion Hon. Sen. Nyambuya, cannot conclude their motions until Cabinet Ministers have responded to these motions. As you are aware, when they do conclude, we then forward the responses to His Excellency the President and we cannot forward the conclusions without responses from respective Cabinet Ministers. So, I am appealing to Cabinet Ministers to respond to the debates that emanated on these motions from this particular House. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 4th May, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 4th May, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS was concerned by reports that the incidence of HIV and AIDS was on the rise in the age group of 15 to 24 years, while it was declining for the rest of the population. National AIDS Council confirmed that the key population at risk was in the age group of 15 to 24 years for females and 19 to 29 years for males.
1.1 OBJECTIVES
In order to understand the causes, interventions in place and recommend solutions, the Committee sought to engage institutions of higher learning as a big percentage of this age group is found in these institutions. The Committee wanted to find out what National AIDS Council in conjunction with tertiary institutions was doing to address the problem. The Committee then embarked into an inquiry into HIV and AIDS education, information dissemination and management in tertiary institutions.
2.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee decided to visit different universities and colleges in order to get a good representation of issues and views from around the country. It was agreed that in each institution, the Committee would interview officials and student representatives. University and College officials took oath and gave information to the Committee. Student representatives from each university and college were interviewed. Officials were interviewed on their own and students were interviewed in the absence of officials. The Committee also heard oral evidence from officials from National AIDS Council who gave information on the work NAC carries out at tertiary institutions.
2.1 Institutions of higher learning the Committee interfaced with.
The following institutions in Harare were toured in March 2016;
Seke Teachers’ College, Catholic University, Belvedere Teachers’ College and University of Zimbabwe.
In October 2016, the Committee visited the following institutions of higher learning; Great Zimbabwe University, Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo Polytechnic (Gwanda), Gwanda University, National University of Science and Technology, Lupane University, Hillside Teachers’
College, Midlands State University and Mkoba Teachers’ College.
3.0 FINDINGS
3.1 Key Drivers of HIV infection
In each institution visited, the Committee asked both officials and students what they considered to be major drivers of HIV infection.
Below are the facts captured by the Committee;
- a) Student Poverty
Unemployment levels are high in the country and most parents cannot afford to adequately support their children in tertiary institutions. This results in cross generational relationships which mostly affect female students who get into relationships with older men in exchange for money. The older men are not always willing to use protection, leaving the students vulnerable. It was reported that some students become prostitutes to make ends meet.
At Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo Polytechnic, the Committee was informed that desperate female students engage in sexual relationships with artisanal miners in the area. Some of the miners are married or have multiple sexual relationships.
Student poverty has also resulted in “semester marriages”, which are entered into by students who want to cut costs by sharing living quarters and expenses. This arrangement is responsible for the spread of HIV as students in these ‘marriages’ only use condoms for the first few times of sexual interaction and then abandon them later. Both students and officials in all universities attested the existence of the ‘marriages’.
However, the ‘married’ students may also have other relationships in which they are sexually active.
- “Ugly Condoms”
Students were unhappy with a particular brand of condom distributed in all institutions visited, these were dubbed ‘panther condoms’. The condom is given by NAC and other partners. Students reported that they did not like the look or smell of it and therefore, do not use it.
- Peer pressure and hormones
A common thread of thought that ran through all the institutions visited was that the age group of 15 to 24 years is one most susceptible to peer pressure and to giving in to hormonal urges. Recommendations from students and lecturers was that sex education should be taught from as early as primary school so that people are aware of developments in their bodies and have sufficient knowledge on how to deal with said developments.
- Lack of Information and HIV and AIDS awareness prior to tertiary Education
It was reported by students from different institutions that they had no prior education or information on sex, sexuality and HIV and AIDS in secondary school. Apart from this gap, some parents do not discuss issues related to HIV and AIDS with their children. There were those who reported that certain students who acquired HIV from their mothers at birth did not know they were positive, but their parents/guardians just gave them medication without explaining what it was for. This was also responsible for defaulting in the taking of anti-retrovirals by adolescents who had no idea what the medication was nor what it was treating.
- Inadequate information and Sexual reproductive health services in Clinics and Hospitals
Hospitals and clinics do not offer information and services on SRHR to adolescents easily. They are looked upon as being morally decadent when they go to hospitals or clinics to seek such assistance. Few tertiary institutions have fully equipped and functional clinics to help students with information and health services.
- Lack of Accommodation on Campus and ‘New Found
Freedom’
Most tertiary institutions are unable to accommodate all their students on campus where they can be monitored and chaperoned to some extent. A case in point was Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo Polytechnic which had over a thousand students enrolled, but the hostels only house a few students, that is, 100 female students in the new site and 200 in the old site. Construction of hostels was left unfinished by Ministry of Local
Government, Public Works and National Housing. Mkoba Teachers’ College reported that most students lived off campus because they could not afford the residence fees. Midlands State University enrols huge numbers, such that the institution is unable to offer all of them accommodation.
Even those on campus sometimes engage in risky behaviour because of the ‘new found freedom’ away from parental restriction.
- Abuse of Alcohol and drugs
Many reported the use of drugs and alcohol as leading to lowered inhibitions which lead to risky behaviour. Adolescents are exposed to drugs and alcohol which are consumed/used to excess without the usual restriction from parents or guardians. Students in every institution stated that abuse of alcohol and drugs was a big contributor to HIV infection.
- Unavailability of constructive entertainment on Campus
Unavailability of entertainment on campus exposes students to risky behaviour when they seek it off campus. Some students expressed frustration at the lack of entertainment on campus as search for relaxation and recreational activities off campus usually resulted in risky behaviour. Students from the University of Zimbabwe complained that the college did not offer them much recreational and relaxation options on campus, resulting in students going to night clubs in the city where risky behaviour was rampant.
3.2 INTERVENTIONS BY TERTIARY INSTITUTIONS
3.2.1 HIV and AIDS awareness Campaigns
The Committee noted that the levels of intervention of tertiary institutions differed depending on the leadership and resources. All the universities and colleges toured informed the Committee that they hold awareness campaigns at the beginning of each semester in conjunction with National AIDS Council (NAC) and other supporting partners such as SAYWHAT, Population Services International (PSI), Zimbabwe
National Family Planning Council (ZNFPC), United Nations Population
Fund (UNFPA), New Start Centre, SAFAIDS, Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development and Ministry of Health and Child Care. The awareness campaigns ensure that all new intakes receive information on HIV and AIDS and other sexually transmitted infections.
The Committee was highly impressed with Seke Teachers’ College which, despite shortage of resources exhibited a strong HIV and AIDS awareness programme, where awareness campaigns were conducted regularly throughout the semester.
The University of Zimbabwe and Midlands State University have a robust programme on HIV and AIDS in terms of HIV and AIDS awareness. They also provide literature on HIV and AIDS to their students, which is accessible all year round.
All institutions interviewed reported that they hold candle light memorials at least once a year in memory of those who had died from
AIDS. This served as an HIV and AIDS awareness tool. Midlands State
University, National University of Science and Technology and Seke
Teachers’ College students and officials informed the Committee that they also use what they call ‘edutainment’, where entertainment such as drama and music were used to communicate how HIV is contracted and how it can be prevented. Sports events have been used by many tertiary institutions to run HIV and AIDS awareness campaigns, where they pitch tents and invite technical partners in the field to assist with information dissemination on HIV and AIDS, counselling and testing.
The Committee, however, fears that HIV and AIDS awareness campaigns held only at the beginning of semesters are grossly inadequate to deal with the issue of HIV and AIDS awareness. The Committee was also concerned by the fact that since the awareness campaigns were not compulsory, a good number of students were not captured by the campaigns.
The interaction of the Committee with some tertiary institutions officials revealed that the awareness campaigns needed to target staff as well. There were no reported efforts at HIV and AIDS awareness campaigns aimed at all tertiary institutions lecturers and other key staff.
The Committee was pleased to note that all the teachers’ colleges visited held more HIV and AIDS initiatives for students preparing for teaching practice. The practice is useful as it reinforces the students’ knowledge on HIV and AIDS, which protects them from risky behaviour during teaching practice.
Not all tertiary institutions were aggressively carrying out HIV and AIDS awareness campaigns. For example, the Catholic University did not consider teaching students about HIV and AIDS a necessity as the institution taught good morals only as prevention of HIV infection.
3.2.2 The Life Skills Course
Government policy compels all tertiary institutions to address the issue of HIV and AIDS and hence the Life Skills Course taught in all institutions of higher learning. The Committee was impressed to note that the University of Zimbabwe developed a manual dedicated to teaching students about HIV and AIDS. The institutions of higher learning visited all reported that HIV and AIDS is taught as part of the Life Skills course, which was an examinable compulsory subject. However, HIV and AIDS was a topic among many others related to life skills. The Committee was of the opinion that a subject dedicated entirely to HIV and AIDS may reiterate the direness of the matter of HIV and AIDS and the urgent response it requires.
The Committee noted with concern that in Polytechnic and teachers’ colleges, students who were taking science courses were not offered the Life Skills Course. This creates a gap in knowledge which leaves the students concerned vulnerable to HIV infection.
3.3.3 Peer Educators
All the institutions visited have initiated the ‘institution’ of peer educators to disseminate information on HIV and AIDS to other students. Peer educators are clubs consisting of volunteer students who engage in information dissemination and peer to peer counselling. They get information on HIV and AIDS, sexual reproductive health and other health matters from their clinics and technical partners.
It is believed that students receive information on HIV and AIDS and sexual reproductive health from other students more readily than from adults. Peers are also better communicators of this information as they are in the similar circumstance of age and tertiary education.
Midlands State University reported that its peer educators were planning to produce a movie and musical CDs and videos to convey the dangers of HIV and AIDS and what can be done to prevent it.
The peer educators are volunteers and effective, but few in numbers, as was reported in every institution toured. These are fellow students who are also pressed for time. The Committee found this intervention of tertiary institutions to be commendable, but needing incentives to increase the numbers.
3.3.4 Provision of Free Meals
The Committee sadly heard tales of struggle for financial resources by many students at every tertiary institution visited. At Mkoba
Teachers’ College, the officials’ biggest concern was that most students cannot afford food and the college cannot afford to give them free meals. HIV positive students from underprivileged families on ART cannot take their medication on empty stomachs. It was heart rending for Committee Members to listen to tales of how some students survive on maputi (popocorn),while others only managed to exist on one meal per day. Mkoba Teachers’ College had worked with a Non-Governmental Organisation to feed the underprivileged students, but the NGO had since ceased operating. The college officials informed the Committee that they were actively seeking partnerships with organisations which could assist to ensure students on ART were properly fed.
Officials at Mkoba Teachers’ College also informed the Committee that students who are HIV positive suffer deteriorating health because of lack of decent food and some even die when they go out to teaching practice because they cannot afford food. The Committee was horrorstruck that a generation was being lost and that it made no sense to train people who would serve for a year or two then die. However, the
Committee was impressed by efforts made by Seke Teachers’ College to ensure that all underprivileged students who were taking medication for any chronic illness received at least one free meal per day.
3.3.5 HIV and AIDS Policy
The Committee found that generally institutions of higher learning who had operational institutional HIV and AIDS policies had good programmes running. Institutions that had HIV and AIDs policies of note were the University of Zimbabwe, Midlands State University, Seke
Teachers’ College and National University of Science and Technology. Some of the institutions reported that they had drafted policies, but these had not been approved by their boards’, e.g. Lupane State University. Other institutions had policies but did not effectively communicate them to their students as evidenced by the fact that the students were unaware that such policies existed. Great Zimbabwe University and Hillside
Teachers’ College were cases in point.
The only private university interviewed, i.e. Catholic University had no HIV and AIDS policy at the time of the Committee’s visit.
The Committee is of the view that an HIV and AIDS policy is important for such institutions as it spells out intervention measures and captures implementation strategies.
3.3.6 Campus Clinics
The Committee was pleased to note the lengths that MSU, UZ and NUST went to in providing health care services to its students. They have fully functional and well-staffed clinics which offer HIV counselling and testing services and also initiate ART. Great Zimbabwe University reported that it began initiating ART in July, 2016 and at the time of the Committee’s visit, the facility was unknown to students. MSU offers 24 hour services in their clinics where students can be tested, counselled and initiated on ART.
In all the institutions visited, there was a clinic on campus except
Gwanda University which became operational in September 2016. The Committee noted with concern that all the colleges had small clinics which were poorly staffed. Most of them had one nurse each and no doctors. It was reported that they also had no capacity to initiate ART.
Students interviewed informed the Committee that their peers who were HIV positive had to go back to their home health centres to get their antiretroviral medication because they needed transfer letters in order to obtain ART from their college clinics. The Committee was distressed to hear that students sometimes miss lectures and tests in order to go back to their home clinics and hospitals to replenish their ART supplies. This is an added expense on students who are already struggling to make ends meet. It was not clear why the transfer letters are difficult to obtain. Some students feared stigmatisation when they visit clinics and hospitals off campus to get ART services as these have designated areas/rooms for attending to opportunistic infections and collection of anti-retrovirals.
4.0 National AIDS Council Involvement
All the institutions visited reported that they conducted HIV and
AIDS awareness campaigns where they invited National AIDS Council (NAC) to participate at the beginning of each new Semester/ term. NAC works with technical partners who donate their human resources for information dissemination and literature and condom distribution. Organisations such as UNFPA, Population Services International, Zimbabwe National Family Planning Council and New Start Centre donate condoms and offer HIV counselling and testing services, voluntary medical male circumcision and in some cases, screening for cervical cancer. National AIDS Council cooperates with the Ministries of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development and Youth, Indigenisation and Empowerment. NAC also collaborates with a youth organisation named SAYWHAT who have officers permanently
stationed at tertiary institutions.
4.1 NAC informed the Committee that in 2015, $400 000 was budgeted for tertiary institutions and in 2017, one and a half million dollars has been targeted towards the same. Activities carried out by NAC in colleges and universities include awareness campaigns, training of peer educators, condom distribution and coordinating various activities by different partners. National AIDS Council works in conjunction with experts from the Ministry of Health and Child Care and other partners who carry out voluntary male circumcision, cervical cancer screening and HIV counselling and testing. NAC supports exhibitions and competitions in numerous tertiary institutions such as quizzes and musical expos which were reported to be popular with the youth.
The Committee was pleased with the efforts of NAC who
sometimes use mobile networks to send bulk messages with information on HIV and STIs.
4.2 The Committee had fears about funding for HIV running out, but NAC announced that it was working on a proposal for Global Fund finances. Global Fund had given indications that it had set aside funds targeted at young women and girls in the age group that the Committee is concerned about.
4.3 The Committee was pleased to hear that National AIDS Council also works with vocational training centres, army, police and prison training centres, where they have trained focal persons who can hold continuous dialogues with students on issues of HIV and sexual and reproductive health.
5.0 CHALLENGES
5.1 The Committee found that most tertiary institutions have no capacity to initiate Anti-Retroviral Therapy because they were not registered with NAC, while most were understaffed and under resourced. None of the institutions received financial assistance
from Government in order to deal with HIV and AIDS in students in colleges.
5.2 Information gathered pointed to the fact that most parents in Zimbabwe do not share any information relating to HIV and AIDS with their children. There were reports of students who only discovered at college that they were HIV positive, but had been taking ARVs all their lives without knowing what they were being treated for. This exposed the students to re-infection and then infecting others without knowing.
5.3 The Committee found that in most institutions of higher learning, HIV and AIDS was not treated with the seriousness and urgency it deserved.
6.0 RECOMMENDATIONS
6.1 Government should give students grants / loans to protect them from the risk posed by poverty. This item should be budgeted for in the 2018 budget.
6.2 Government, through the Ministry of Health and Child Care, should create one stop health centres at all universities by end of 2017 and these should provide sexual reproductive health services as well as HIV and HIV related health services.
6.3 Every tertiary institution should have a well-resourced clinic, with adequate staff and drugs starting from the next semester for universities (September 2017) and next term for colleges (May 2017). Clinics should have free testing and counselling and must have all the necessities to run an HIV and AIDS programme.
6.4 The Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing must make it a priority to build hostels for all tertiary institutions in order to safeguard particularly the female student, e.g at J. M. Nkomo, the Ministry should complete the building of hostels by end of 2018.
6.5 Truck drivers and artisanal miners should be exposed to HIV and AIDS awareness campaigns as this population is part of the key populations interacting with students. National AIDS should begin work in the affected areas forthwith.
6.6 All service providers must have coordinating mechanisms so that they offer institutions of higher learning complementary services instead of duplicating them.
6.7 All clinics in institutions of higher learning should create awareness in students on testing and treating sexually transmitted infections, TB and cancer on enrolment beginning in the next term in May 2017 for colleges and the next semester in September 2017 for universities.
6.8 Universities and colleges must ensure that HIV and AIDS is not only talked about at orientation but throughout the student’s life at college. There should be a meeting discussing HIV related matters at least once a month.
6.9 Government must ensure that students’ lives are saved by including HIV and AIDS as a topic in every college, including faculties of science to increase HIV and AIDS awareness starting next term in
May 2017 for colleges and next semester in September 2017.
6.10 Students should use the available condoms until they get the desired ones in order to avoid HIV infection while institutions of higher learning should spread awareness of the female condom.
6.11 All tertiary institutions must take advantage of available resources in order to maximise interactions between students and NAC and other relevant partners.
6.12 Government should only register institutions of higher learning who have adequate health facilities to cater for the health of students. Starting from 2018, every tertiary institution should have a clinic.
7.0 CONCLUSION
The Committee is convinced that a holistic approach to dealing with HIV and AIDS in the population in institutions of higher learning will see the country eradicating AIDS by 2030. This requires parents playing their part in teaching morals, behaviour change and talking to their children about HIV and AIDS, it also calls for schools from primary to secondary education to teach children about sexuality and HIV and AIDS and also for Government to make policies that will ensure that institutions of higher learning adequately care for students’ health. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Mr. President. I stand in support of the report that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Timveos on HIV and Aids.
The Hon. Senator alluded to all the challenges that your
Committee noted when it toured these institutions of higher learning. Mr. President, I will just emphasise on the salient areas like poverty. It was quite pitiful, as your Committee was conducting discussions with students at these institutions, to be serious with their education as they lead difficult lives. This is why your Committee recommends that Government should offer student grants and loans to enable underprivileged children to acquire higher education like their privileged counterparts. It was also pitiful to note the lack of food at these institutions. Your Committee asked itself, as parents, whether the parents or guardians of these children had adequately prepared for the children before sending them off to college, particularly those who are affected by HIV and Aids. At some institutions, students would spend the day on popcorn only. In some places where there are artisanal miners and truck drivers, the students end up being abused by artisanal miners and truck drivers, all in a bid to raise money to buy food.
Mr. President Sir, your Committee also noted the lack of vocational recreational centres at most of these institutions where they can engage in various sporting activities so that they do not end up in undesirable places. Your Committee also noted the lack of medical facilities in most of these higher learning institutions and students have to seek for these services outside the institutions. Do the Ministries of Health and Child Care and Higher and Tertiary Education concur to such a scenario? As such Mr. President, your Committee recommends the availability of clinics at all institutions of higher learning, not just walls but properly functioning clinics with the relevant material and other resources, particularly availability of drugs.
Mr. President Sir, she said that there are not enough hostels. It is a pity for these colleges, for example Midlands State University. Your Committee was shown that some of the students learn at a functional mine complex in Zvishavane. This place is not suitable for learning purposes but it is because of lack of infrastructure. We feel that the students must not be accommodated at such a learning complex that put the children in a very difficult situation because of the very environment they are in. Mr. President, the other thing that was seen by your Committee is on the discussion and teaching on HIV and AIDS, where should it end?
When children go to school they should be told that there is this scourge. We do not stop there – no. Your Committee resolved that there should be ways that these children should be reminded that this scourge or endemic is there and it is not something that can be cured. We need to be morally upright for us to survive. It is a pity what was said by the mover that some would go into sinister marriages which are not proper in order to get educated. It is important that when students go to institutions like that, people should put their heads together. The
Government must realise that those children are not put into a precarious situation because of the environment they are in and because of lack of other things that are necessary.
Your Committee also looked at ways of how this disease can be
prevented in learning institutions. It is the responsibility of us all because these children said we have truck drivers who take advantage of our poverty and abuse us. Not only men, there are also sugar mummies; fathers and mothers who abuse children because of their poverty. That is a pitiful situation. If we have such parents, really will they do that to their own children? It is the responsibility of everyone that students must be protected so that they can finish their education. What does it mean for a nation of Zimbabwe to have literate or educated people more than other nations because when they are not protected, this will shorten their life span?
Your Committee saw it important that HIV/AIDS is something that should be protected against at such institutions so that students are gainfully employed after leaving school. When they leave school infected with this virus they will spread it and education will be useless because their life span would have been curtailed.
Mr. President, just as I have said, the mover of this motion Hon.
Timveos looked at almost everything that your Committee saw. Your Committee resolved that Government should take it seriously to protect institutions of higher learning so as to protect the nation of Zimbabwe. When we talk of Zimbabwe, we talk of these youths who are at higher learning institutions; these are the people we are talking about. We are at the sunset of our lives but the nation of Zimbabwe – the youths who are still at school should be protected. Government should look at such matters seriously so that the literacy rate and our life span goes hand in hand and that there is a balance.
With that Mr. President, I summarise by saying your Committee has a lot of work in order to curtail this HIV/AIDS pandemic. It is therefore a lesson that this Committee be resourced because it is important. It should be supported when it has a programme to run on HIVAIDS. With that Mr. President, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. I wish to make a few comments on the motion before the House and start by saying it was shocking to hear some students talking of being worried about getting pregnant other than to get HIV/AIDS. One would wonder where this is coming from but as indicated by the mover of the motion, this is all emanating from the poverty levels that are experienced in the institutions of higher learning. As Parliament, we need to take that very seriously so that we do not expose our young girls in the tertiary institutions. It is also important that we take the issue of HIV/AIDS seriously and make sure that once the students have been detected that they are positive, they must take their drugs, compliance becomes critical. This information was not coming up clearly that they are fully aware that once you are positive, you can survive if you are taking the drugs. This simply means that there is not much education being given to the students.
It is also necessary to realise that most of the students, because of the newly acquired freedom in the institutions, they do things without seriously thinking of the consequences. So again, it is important as indicated by the mover, if we could provided accommodation in most of the institutions of higher learning, we may reduce that freedom where the students have to go out, get their own accommodation and do whatever they want.
Mr. President, it is also important that all the students realise the importance of testing because for one to know their status is helpful. In most cases, people believe that it is better not to know but in this day and age, it is important that they appreciate that everybody has to know his or her status. Once you know your status, you go on treatment and when you are on treatment, you comply. However, one critical issue which was very clear is that there are no mechanisms to help the students to get their viral load testing. Institutions of higher learning do not have that facility and if you have to go out to get that facility, it is prohibitive in terms of costs. So, it is critical that the Government takes serious measures to make sure that viral load testing is actually provided for us to reach the 90/90/90.
Mr. President, one good thing we noticed is that discrimination and stigma are no longer issues. People can now talk freely about HIV and AIDS. However, I think what is important is not just about talking, it is about us trying to live positively and make sure that if you have sex, it is safe. Mr. President, it is important to constantly remind the students and the nation at large that HIV and AIDS are not death sentences. It is also important for people to appreciate that HIV and AIDS are two different issues; these are stages. So once somebody is HIV, it does not necessarily mean that they have AIDS. This information was very clear in the colleges that nobody seriously talks about it. If you say you want to discuss HIV and AIDS, people will say we are aware of HIV and AIDS issues, and you ask what the issues are. This simply means that there is lack of education about HIV and AIDS. Mr. President, I want to say that the insights we got when we went out should enlighten us as
Parliamentarians that when we go back into our communities – these students come from communities, we need to continuously talk about the effect of HIV and AIDS. This is because that is where we get our labour force and when we have students who are affected in their early years of life, then we have a problem. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 4th May, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
MANDIWANZIRA): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 8 to 14 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 1 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE BILATERAL AGREEMENT WITH
MOZAMBIQUE ON THE PUNGWE WATERCOURSE
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
MANDIWANZIRA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF
ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND CLIMATE (HON.
MUCHINGURI): I move the motion standing in the name of the Hon.
Minister of Environment, Water and Climate;
THAT WHEREAS Section 327(2) (a) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
AND WHEREAS Article 22 (1) of the Agreement provides that it
shall enter into force thirty (30) days after the deposit of the instrument of ratification by parties;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (2) (a) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe and Mozambique on the Pungwe Watercourse be and is hereby approved for acceptance.
Mr. President, the Pungwe River flows from Mount Nyangani in Eastern Highlands and drains into the Indian Ocean, having passed through Mozambique. This watercourse is currently managed under the Pungwe Basin Trans-boundary Integrated Water Resources Management and Development Programme, a joint initiative between the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Government of the Republic of Mozambique.
The two Governments now propose to enter into a bilateral agreement to promote effective management of the Pungwe Basin.
OVERVIEW
Mr. President, the Agreement outlines measures jointly adopted by the parties for the sustainable utilisation of the Pungwe Watercourse, which measures include;
- i) the joint responsibility to prevent, reduce as well as to control the pollution of both surface and ground water, for purposes of enhancing the quality of the waters and the surrounding ecosystems; ii) the obligation to exchange data and information, including rainfall figures, floods and river flow data; and iii) the adherence to the flow regime agreed upon by the parties, which limits abstractions from the Pungwe Watercourse to the stipulated levels.
The Agreement therefore, seeks to provide criterion for the conservation, allocation and sustainable utilisation of the Pungwe Water Resource.
JUSTIFICATION FOR THE AGREEMENT
Mr. President, this agreement will, among others, enhance the ability;
- i) to safeguard Zimbabwe’s interests in the sustainable supply of water to the City of Mutare, as well as the utilisation of water from the Pungwe River Basin in general, for afforestation, livestock management and tourism; ii) to minimise potential water-related conflicts between the two countries; and iii) to create opportunities for other forms of cooperation in different sectors.
Mr. President, in addition to the existing good relations, Zimbabwe has with our neighbour Mozambique, the cooperation on the Pungwe River demonstrates the importance of transboundary river basin management for economic and social development.
I therefore plead with the august House to approve the Agreement between Zimbabwe and Mozambique on Co-operation on the Development, Management and Sustainable Utilisation of the Water Resources of the Pungwe Watercourse. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to thank the Minister for having achieved an agreement between our two countries. Whilst in this region we take water for granted, water in some areas is a very emotive issue. Even in Southern Africa, some years ago before the 90s, South Africa threatened that if they were not given access to Zambezi water they were prepared to go to war. This was only averted when they got an agreement with Lesotho which allowed them to access water from Lesotho highlands. That only shows you that water is important. This is why I wish to thank the Minister for having succeeded in negotiating with our neighbor, Mozambique. For that reason, I support the adoption of the motion. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHISUNGA: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for bringing this agreement to do with the integrated management of our water resources sustainably. I want to thank the Minister for coming up with this proposal because on several occasions it rains in our country and the water goes straight to the Indian Ocean and if we do not make use of that water, it is a resource which has been wasted. As a nation it is prudent that we accept this proposal and support it so that our communities can continue to benefit from the use of the water resources which are beneficial for the purposes of irrigation and doing several projects such as electricity generation. This can enhance the development of our economy. I think it can also stimulate activities which generate employment for our people. I want to congratulate the Minister for coming up with this agreement. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I also wish to thank the Minister for bringing up this agreement. My understanding is that the President has already signed this agreement. The reading is not clear. Once that has been done, Parliament should just approve. We wholeheartedly agree in this House that whatever has been done should be with the approval of
Parliament. It is a noble cause. It is part of Zimbabwe as a matter of fact. Sorry I am not trying to make subversive statements but if you look at the map - having agreed Hon. Minister that we should go ahead, I strongly feel that it was part of Zimbabwe anyway. This is testimony of the ugly face of colonialism. The Berlin Conference Agreement should be reviewed so that we fight colonialism right through because the Zambezi, Pungwe and Limpopo Rivers get into the Indian Ocean and we have no access. This is where I think the Berlin Conference negotiations need to be taken back. I know that some people may say no, no, do not touch what the colonial masters did, if touch it midzimu yacho inozodii ikadii. This must be reviewed. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I also want to add my voice on this motion which has been brought in by the Minister of Water Resources. I want to thank this Ministry for the agreement that has been made between the two countries. It is of great importance really because water is life. Without water we cannot survive. We know very well that Zimbabwe is a landlocked country and we do not have water that is available. Most of our water just comes and flows into the Indian Ocean. So there is need for us as a country to harness as much water as possible so that we can have life in our country.
Another issue that I want to add after this agreement which I support fully, there is also an issue with Limpopo River which flows from where it comes up to the Indian Ocean. It bypasses some areas that are in Region 5 where there is very little or no sufficient water. If that water is harnessed, there can be a belt along the river for irrigation purposes. You find that across South Africa, they have irrigation schemes whereby they grow a lot of citrus fruits and they are really getting a lot of money for the country through that river. Whereas us as Zimbabweans we are getting nothing. So, it is a good idea which I support. Even our livestock would not be suffering because they would be having sufficient water as the Limpopo River flows perennially. If water is harnessed there would be a lot of activities that would be taking place along that river. With these few words Mr. President I support the motion. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I would want to thank the Minister for the development aspect which he brought in this House. The aspect of water is beyond question in terms of asking whether people want it or not. The agreement over Pungwe River to us is a benefit to Zimbabwe. We call it a benefit in the sense that we are in the process of demanding development everywhere in Zimbabwe. The question of water, as was mentioned by the previous speaker is life. The question of water is also energy, food and employment. Therefore, now that this very desirable instrument is brought in this House; you have an excellent regard in terms of the consent of this House, that we desire growth, expansion of even our energies elsewhere. It is much of the benefit to the nearest city which is Mutare and ultimately everywhere else. There is no other word that I can add other than those few ones I have said. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. I have no
qualms with the agreement, it is already signed, but I wish to say to the Minister, I will be very selfish in my contribution as a person who comes from the constituency where we have the Pungwe River; we do not want a situation which we have at Osborne Dam where water goes to the lowveld and is not supporting the local communities.
Minister, it would be critical if it is made possible to discuss with local communities to understand what the agreement is all about. Like everybody has said, the importance of water, we cannot overemphasise that, but I think the benefit to the local community in the management of this agreement would be definitely be critical. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I think as it has been said already, the agreement is fully appreciated because nobody can deny the fact that water is necessary in a country and in the region. Minister, there are rivers on which it has been stated that they are going to have dams, particularly the Gwai/Shangani, those waters are going to Zambezi and Zambezi is not being used by the local people. For how long will those people be in need of water? It has been said that water is life, so why can it not bring life on the other side of the country; can we do something with this water system? It has been indicated that electricity is going to be there, it promotes agriculture and economic development of the area.
As far as I can see that Gwai/Shangani will not only look at the area, it can be distributed to cover a lot of other areas. Why is it neglected so much? As far as I know, this Pungwe agreement means within a few years, we will see activities there. Why can we not see activities in GwaiShangani for such a long time? What you have brought to this House is well appreciated, Hon. Minister. People in those areas in the western side of this country also need employment, economic development as well as food security and nutrition like everywhere else. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to say a few words on this agreement. I also want to congratulate the Minister and thank him for bringing this very important topic to this august House.
Mr. President, Hon. Senators have mentioned that water is life. It is a right to people and I appreciate that when we talk of one area, we are talking of Zimbabwe. If one area is developed, Zimbabwe is developed; I want to congratulate the people from Manicaland that development has come because without water there is no development. As we know, water cuts across, now when we talk of industries, you talk of agriculture and many other things - you will be talking of water.
Mr. President, in support of this motion, I would like to remind the
Minister of an outstanding project that has been on the cards for quite some time that is the Zambezi water project. In view of the heavy rains that we got this year, all the water that could be harnessed to develop part of Zimbabwe which is not only Matabeleland, because the Zambezi water would cut across the region - it could go as far as Masvingo and so forth. It has been on the cards for a long time and especially with this project that the Government has come up with, that is Command Agriculture and I heard the Vice President talking about the livestock project under the Command Agriculture. How does that project succeed if there is no water like in the Matabeleland region? Government can provide whatever resources it can in the form of seed, animals but if there is no water, all that goes down the drain.
I would like to urge the Minister to consider speeding up the Zambezi water project so that Zimbabwe will go back to its initial status to be the bread basket of Africa. Mr. President, I support 100% this motion and request consideration of the Zambezi Water Project to be speeded up so that there is balance in the development of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I stand to lend support to this project. A lot of what I would have cried about has been said. I only want to make one sentence and a very short one. It is commendable that we are taking preventive action. Oftentimes we wait until there is a crisis and then we endeavor to make agreements. With those few words, I lend my support to the signed agreement.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to thank the Minister for the motion which he introduced in this house. Minister, you are very welcome into this House and you have come to talk about the importance of water. Water is an essentiality; it is life.
Just this past week, I was in Hurungwe North at a farm in Hon.
Marumahoko’s constituency and they were saying the white employer was advising them to drink water from the Zambezi River. This employer told them that if they were to dig a well in their area, the water would be salty and hard so they should rather drink from the Zambezi
River.
The other week, we were with the Minister of State for Matabeleland North Province, Hon. Mathema and he was educating us that westerners sunk boreholes that they referred to as bush pumps.
When we say we want to drain water inland from big rivers such as the Zambezi River to the Zambezi waterworks, we do not applaud such ideas but only want to applaud ideas from westerners. Therefore, I thank you Minister and I am in support of this project. Whenever we can have any waterbody, let us preserve it and keep our water for use on irrigation as there is life whereever there is irrigation. So, it is not going to benefit us if we allow this water to be drained to the oceans.
I remember sometime back, our former colonisers who we disempowered and are different from us as Africans, fear crossing flooded rivers. They let the water flow to the oceans hence the flooding of the Sengwe and Limpopo Rivers. A few months down the line, the Africans search for water for their projects and so, it is vital for us to harness all the rain water in our country for development. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
MANDIWANZIRA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF
ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND CLIMATE (HON.
MUCHINGURI): Thank you Mr. President. Allow me to express my very deep gratitude and sincere thanks to this august House for this overwhelming support to the ratification of the said Agreement. I particularly wish to single out Hon. Sen. Chipanga, Hon. Sen. Chief Chisunga, Hon. Sen. Musaka, Hon. Sen. Mohadi, Hon. Sen. Makore,
Hon. Sen, Chimhini who is a beneficiary, Hon. Sen. Khumalo, Hon. Sen. Masuku and Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda and Hon. Sen. Machingaifa who have just spoken for their voiced support for the Agreement and wish to thank all the Hon. Senators who did not add their voices but I know that they are in support because they did not object – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.] – So, I wish to thank everyone.
I wish to acknowledge the point raised that indeed this Agreement was signed on the 11th of July 2016, but our law is very clear that our signatures mean nothing until the National Assembly and the Senate have ratified that Agreement. So we were just holding meaningless pieces of paper until your voices today and I thank you for that. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – I acknowledge all the contributions that have been made particularly the points that were raised about other river basins that we could be using effectively as a country and not allowing this water to flow to the seas yet communities around these rivers are dying of hunger or struggling to make ends meet yet they could actually be undertaking sustainable agricultural projects using water from these rivers but we have not started harvesting these waters.
I acknowledge the outcry from Hon. Sen. Masuku regarding the Zambezi Water Project. It is one that has been on the cards for the longest of times. It serves a huge and productive community of our country that produces some of our finest beef that went on some of the finest tables in Europe because of that sustainable wildlife as well as ongoing livestock agriculture in that region. The Hon. Senator is correct that under the current Command Agriculture programme, livestock is a major focus and therefore it is important that the project be attended to as it will provide water for the sustenance of the successful livestock project in that region. I wish to advise the House that the Ministry will do all it can despite limited resources to ensure that this and many other similar projects in the country are pushed for the success of our country. It has become very clear to all of us that as a country, we must first of all look to ourselves for emancipation before we look elsewhere. The support will only come when they realise correct things in self sustenance. When we are hungry and lacking, they assist only a few but what to assist once they realise our development for their own benefit.
I thank you for your support and am going to take all your ideas and spread them to fellow ministries so that we introduce these projects because they are developmental – harnessing water is very important. I thank you for supporting this Agreement that we signed but could not be implemented in full before your support.
Motion;
THAT WHEREAS Section 327(2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
AND WHEREAS Article 22 (1) of the Agreement provides that it shall enter into force thirty (30) days after the deposit of the instrument of ratification by parties;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon this House to approve the Bilateral Agreement with Mozambique on the Pungwe Watercourse, put and agreed to.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. MANDIWANZIRA), the Senate adjourned at
Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 2nd May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to draw
the attention of the House to an error on the Order Paper where the Hon. Minister on the Order of the Day No. 2, should be reflected as Minister of Industry and Commerce instead of the Minister of Lands and Rural
Resettlement. Can we correct that?
APPOINTMENTS TO THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARIANS’ NETWORK AGAINST
CORRUPTION.
I have to inform the House that following the holding of elections for the Executive Committee Members of the African Parliamentarians’
Network against Corruption, the Zimbabwe Chapter, the following Hon.
Members were elected to the corresponding positions:-
Hon. J. Maridadi - Chairperson
Hon. F. Mhona - Vice Chairperson
Hon. K. Paradza - Secretary
Hon. P. Misihairabwi-Mushonga - Deputy Secretary
Hon. T. Saruwaka - Treasurer
Hon. P. Mpariwa - Deputy Treasurer
Hon. D. Mackenzie-Ncube - Committee Member
Hon. J. Toffa - Committee Member
Hon. Senator K. Chabuka - Committee Member and
Hon. N. Ndlovu - Committee Member
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Madam President, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 on the Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 2nd May, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers
6 and 7 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second. Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS TO PROTECT DOMESTIC ANIMALS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the
Electoral Act to the Constitution.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD MARRIAGES
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the SADC
Model Law on eradicating Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY POLITICAL
PARTIES
Twelfth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of
Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Thirteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on
Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. I would like to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka that the people of Zimbabwe should multiply- we should give birth to more children and it is very true. This motion is calling for the multiplication of people and I am very grateful to Hon.
Sen. Musaka for that. Like what the Bible says, we should multiply and be like the sands of the sea, hence we are following biblical teachings. On creation, God had seen it that with the size of the world, it should be populated by people who will fully utilize it because God only created Adam and Eve, and then called them to multiply; hence my call for support of this motion raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka and this is a very good idea.
I have heard some previous contributions stating that is the only way we can grow our economy so that we can have a lot of products which are marketable and even when we want to call investors to come into the country, the investors also look at the population of the country so that they will be assured that their products will be bought by many people so that the economy will grow. So, I support Hon. Musaka’s comment for letting people to multiply and the only way people can multiply is by giving birth to more children and not limiting ourselves.
Madam President in summary, there is nothing wrong in the multiplication of the population in the country, but let me hasten to say that we should not multiply through abuse of younger girls such as indulging in early marriages for our girls. If you want to marry more women, please go and propose for love and marry mature people, because the mature people will agree to that concept of coming into a polygamous marriage. I am also calling for the people who want to have more children that they should be able to take care of those children.
Again, if you want to multiply, please, let us avoid domestic violence.
However, let me give advice people who may want to engage a polygamous marriage. The golden rule is that you ask for the concurrence from the first wife, if she is agreeable then you may marry other women and you will be assured of a peaceful polygamous set up. In family, my father and mother gave birth to 13 children, in so doing, we are going to have children if we do not limit these people. We are also doing this because we want to prevent domestic violence. If you read the H-Metro, most of the stories are on divorce cases and then we ask, how can we multiply when we have so many divorces? Let us create a peaceful environment in the home, whenever there are any misunderstandings, they should be solved peacefully.
Again, I want to support this motion that people should multiple and this can only be done, like I have alluded to, in a peaceful home environment and we cut down on domestic violence. I am saying, we need to make contributions so that we justify our presence.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Chief
for the reminder that we have not just come to while away time and drink water but to debate.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON EARLY CHILD MARRIAGES Fourteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Early Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. I also want to rise and support the report which was brought into this august House by your Committee on gender and development. Madam
President, Zimbabwe as a nation is renowned for its good literacy rate, but we are not as good on this practice of early child marriages. Child marriage is still a huge problem in this country. Zimbabwe is among other African states with the highest child marriage prevalence rate in the world and it ranges in the plus or minus 31%.
However, by comparison at one time - Malawi had one of the world’s highest rates of child marriages with more than half of their girls being forced out of school into marriage, some of them as early as nine years old being married to older husbands. According to the United
Nations International Children Emergency Fund report, by application of human rights principles, marriage of a child is a gross Human Rights violation in all proportions and is also a catalyst for gender inequality and ultimately contributes to perennial poverty being passed on from generation to generation. In Zimbabwe, this scenario is more prevalent in our farming and mining communities where the children live at the greatest risk of being married at very young ages and this is deplorable. It is still happening in Zimbabwe.
Those who have gone to the resettlement areas and have compounds around them are witnesses of these happenings. Several of us are sitting here, sometimes we hardly warn of the dangers of early child marriages. I think as Hon. Members, we must play our part and educate the communities in which we live or where our farms are located that child marriages are not good. However Madam President, I also want to quote the findings of the Zimbabwe Multiple Indicator Monitoring survey which notes that this practice does not exist in a vacuum. There are several factors that are driving child marriages and as Zimbabwe and other countries, we are condoning those. Very little is being done to eradicate or at least to reduce the practice. Some of the driving factors are poverty, cultural and religious practices feature as key drivers of child marriages in Zimbabwe. Similarly child marriages in Malawi, according to the UNICEF report were also due to a complex of economic and cultural religious factors – so they are almost the same.
However, Malawi reacted that and were the first African country which passed a law banning all child marriages in 2015 and raised the legal age of marriage to 18 and above. Child marriages directly hinder the achievement of the SDGs, which simply means the international community will not be able to fulfill its vision of a more sustainable world for all of us unless we tackle the child marriage practice the world over.
It is pleasing to note Madam President, according to world trends, that rates of child marriages are slowly and steadily declining globally but we are not doing enough. Actually the practice has got more negatives than positives where it is practiced. It is no excuse that people are poor and they marry off their children; and that religious practices take precedence over the interests of the young girls – that is not proper, considering and all the other practices that I mentioned.
Madam President, some of the negatives include but are not limited to the following: - the child bride is expected and exposed to domestic violence when she is married early; there are also dangers of health complications that are associated with early sexual activities and child bearing during the union. There is social isolation when a child marries early through unwanted separation from her friends, relatives and close affiliates she goes away given to the strangers. Do you think she is going to be happy when she goes there? No. The young brides married in such a union find it difficult to insist on condom use by husbands, thus exposing them to HIV Aids and other STIs that are spread through sexual contact. These are our children. Some people are conversing whilst I am debating Madam President.
Such unions, Madam President, also result in bonded labour and ultimately lead to commercial exploitation. Those children are being used for no apparent use as some religious people, especially those from the apostolic sects want to marry many wives and bear many children for cheap labour and these children do not go to school. This is what I am talking about. Early pregnancies also present major risks to both the young bride and the unborn child that she conceives.
In Zimbabwe, we should play our part to achieve these global efforts. For example, by aligning our laws to boost what we have gained in the past. Early this year, we celebrated a court ruling that banned child marriages until all women are 18 and above – that is what the court did, but we have not aligned the law here. There is still a dichotomy that exists that states that a child can engage in sexual activities at the age of 16 but the age of marriage is 18 years. So we should align the two as quickly as possible so that we can prosecute the offenders accordingly.
Ending the practice of child marriages requires work across all sectors and at all levels. We should also understand the factors that drive these early child marriages as I mentioned earlier and adapt interventions that address them accordingly. If we all have a concerted effort, I think we can manage to reduce and eventually eradicate child marriages. It is a topic we are discussing today that has a potential danger of wiping our nation as opposed to what Hon. Sen. Musaka proposed in his motion that we must have more children. If they are marrying early like this, then we are just condemning them to death and we will not achieve the goals that we want to achieve. So I just want to support this motion. It is a national report which must be discussed openly and the practice must be taken all over where we have gatherings; talk about child marriages, discourage and condemn them. Children must be at school longer for them to have a good future. I want to thank you Madam President with these kind words.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Sen. Mumvuri. I do believe even the boy child is not allowed to marry at 14. He also has to be 18 to marry.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Madam President. I
rise to make my contribution on this motion and support it because it is a noble motion introduced by Hon. Sen. Makore regarding the problems which are faced by our youngsters who are forced into early marriages.
This is a very painful exercise. We were debating this with Hon. Sen. Musaka and we said, let us control this problem because at the moment nobody seems to be serious about solving it. What we know is that where there is a will there is a way. I have all the faith in the people of Zimbabwe. We are very intelligent, very learned and if we want anything solved we can solve it. I also know that as Zimbabweans we are very good at theory but very bad at putting our theory into practice. When we talk about these early marriages, if there is a law put that if there is a learner in Form 2 or 3 and that learner has been impregnated and has given birth; if people search they will know who impregnated the minor.
We are in a period where there is auctioning of tobacco. If you go to the auction floors, there is a very sorry side which you come across because we have young mothers carrying babies on their backs. At times you may even ask who was responsible for that pregnancy. I visited a hospital where there was vaccination of children and this programme was concluded on Sunday. When I visited that place, I heard a sorry side, very painful whereby we had children carrying babies on their backs, not only that some of those young girls were pregnant. What surprised me is that when they go to the gynecologist, he/she does not bother about asking whoever is responsible for impregnating these young girls. My suggestion is, if you want to terminate that culture, we should impose a law whereby the health personnel at the maternity wards should ask about who is responsible for that pregnancy and whether there was any dowry or lobola paid. This will come to an end.
All I am saying is that we are not a talk show, simply talking and theorising; we are not putting what we talk into practice. If given enough time, I will make a research to look for those early married girls and bring their names to the House including also names of people who married the youngsters.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUBANE: Thank you Madam
President for offering me this opportunity to offer a few words, not many about this motion. Firstly, I would want to thank the mover Hon.
Sen. Makore. You know child marriage is not a new problem. We have lived with it; maybe it is only now that we are beginning to take it seriously. Secondly, you know the society at large has great expectations when they look at the Senate and the National Assembly. So, when we debate such issues about child marriages and many others, we should not forget that we carry the hopes of millions out there. Our success as Parliament will be gauged on the ability to uphold the Constitution, to make good laws and many others. If we fail to do that, people will mock us when we leave this Senate. So, it is very important that when we debate these laws, we seriously apply our minds.
Madam President, it is no secret that Parliament is a revered institution. If you talk of Parliament, they see something and so, we should leave up to the expectations. Madam President on 20th January 2016, we received great news, the judgment that was given by the Constitutional Court that child marriages are unconstitutional and we have an obligation, if you read Section 119 of the Constitution, to uphold the Constitution. The High Court has said child marriages are unconstitutional, so it is a starting point but it is more than 14 months after this judgment. What have we done as a nation to address this? I think it is a question that we should be asking each and every one of us as Members of Parliament, parents and as members of this society, what have we done?
Madam President, I would want to thank the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I remember he came in when we were debating the SADC Model law and he responded to it. To me, it was something that was good that a Vice President and Minister can come and listen to the contributions that are coming from this Senate. We hope that other ministers would do the same to come and listen before they present their Bills to this Senate. So, I would want to thank the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for coming in and I hope when he came, he factored in all the concerns that are raised by Hon. Senators from this august Senate.
Madam President as I stood up, I said child marriages is not a new thing. If you look at the various Acts, we have several of them that talk of child marriages. I am thinking of the Domestic Violence Act, the
Legal Age of Majority of 1982. If you are 18, you can make a decision.
In one way or the other, they affect the Customary Marriages Act, the Marriages Act. I am not debating the model law but I am trying to address it because these things are interlinked. I am trying to say where we are going wrong. To me, I feel we have gone off tangent. As a
House, we are presenting reports, debating and it ends there. However,
Madam President, the challenge is still very big. I want to challenge this House, I am also a Member, so I am included in the challenge that when we receive this Bill, we should also think retrogressively. We have children who were married off, what will the law say about them? What about the children who were born as a result of child marriages? Madam President, I think those are the issues that we need to ask ourselves and have an input as an august House.
Madam President, I think there is need for us to have a paradigm shift when we talk of child marriages and other laws. You know, the law says chiefs have no jurisdiction in all issues that are of a criminal nature. I am thinking of child marriages. Yes, it is right to say it is criminal. Maybe the word is not appropriate to say it is a criminal offence because you are now excluding us. I think there is serious need for this House to review the jurisdiction that you give to traditional leaders.
I remember, on 3 March 2014 for your own information, I have this communication, chiefs signed the communication; it was signed by the President of the Zimbabwe National Council of Chiefs, Chief
Charumbira and the Deputy Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and
Community Development, Hon. Damasane. Allow me to read Madam
President; “Zimbabwe National Council Chiefs’ meeting on ending
Child Marriages.”
I do not want to read much; at least I am talking from an informed and authoritative position. It says, “The National Council of Chiefs will take the following interventions aimed at ending child marriages, partnering with the Ministry, PLAN International and other relevant development partners; reviving cultural education, cascading information on child marriages to all the chiefs in the country, leading the dissemination of awareness campaigns on the subject matter, strengthening and creating clear structures and platforms where traditional and religious leaders converge and exchange ideas, collaborating with Government and development partners in reviving the Zunde RaMambo, Isphala Senkosi concept to extend beyond food security in order to abate household poverty.”
In brief Madam President, the chiefs – as I have said, I am talking from a position of authority; the chiefs have done this wherever they have gone. They have conscientised members at provincial, ward assemblies, you name it. However, the chiefs have a handicap because when it comes to issues of law, we are handicapped. They are like a toothless dog that will only bark and will not bite you. A thief can go into any home knowing that that dog will not do anything. I am challenging this House that if we are to address this issue of child marriages, we should give chiefs the jurisdiction to try cases involving child marriages.
Madam President, if we come and say the case is of a criminal nature and we should not touch it, it is alright but in a serious matter, are we addressing the issue? The answer is no. I am thinking of the rural areas, the proximity to the police station and to the courts. People travel long distances and travelling is money and we know money is a challenge these days. People let such cases to die a natural death because they have to travel long distances to access justice. People should not travel long distances to access justice, no.
Madam President, I know that it is unethical to talk of cases that we try in our courts. However, you will forgive me for being unethical in trying to solve this issue. Madam President, some years back, a parent came to my court to report that a certain gentleman had failed to pay lobola. The first instance is that you get suspicious, failed in what sense? Have you explored all other avenues of communication and conflict resolution? No. By then the child was in Form 3, she should have been 14 to 15 years of age. They went to church and on arrival, the girl disappeared. It was on a Friday, the whole of Saturday and Sunday the girl was missing until the mother had to call the father and inform him that their daughter was missing. The father was not a Christian but circumstances forced him to go to church because of this problem. They went there and he was told that their daughter was missing.
However, after some investigations, it was discovered that the Bishop had organised and married off his nephew to this daughter. The father was coming to me because they agreed that the Bishop, on behalf of this boy, will pay lobola and had not fulfilled his promise, so they were coming to the Chief. What touched me a lot Madam President, was that this girl was not going to school for about 15 months but on the day that they came to my court, she came putting on a school uniform, meaning that she wanted to go to school. I talked to her and she said,
“Chief, help me, you are my last resort, I want to go back to school and I want the perpetrators to be brought to book”.
In brief, Madam President, I told them that we have no jurisdiction and they were very disappointed that ‘a court that we uphold so much does not have jurisdiction to try child marriages.’ I said the nearest
court is Zvishavane or Mberengwa which is further away. So, what I am trying to illustrate Madam President, is that we need a paradigm shift to say that all issues that have a criminal nature, the chief should not try them. We will pass Acts that will perpetuate a perennial problem. I challenge this House Madam President; that we should think seriously of such issues if we are to address them. You know there is nothing peculiar in trying a criminal case. Our forefathers did it, what can stop the current crop of chiefs from doing that? It is food for thought for this House.
Madam President, I talked of children who were married off. So, when this Bill comes, people out there have great expectations. They want to know whether the law will take its course on those children who were married off or we are saying we will start prosecuting those that will practice child marriages when the law is passed. I think we should come out clearly on that one.
Secondly, it is a cross cutting issue – we have talked of religious leaders’ harmful cultural practices and I will not dwell much on them. I feel we need to have a holistic approach on this matter. There is need for these young children; unlike our forefathers, children these days are getting married when they are very young. Marriage officials should also verify whether the child getting into marriage is over 18 years or not and take appropriate action. We say in Ndebele “akulamuntu ongatshaya ikatali ngapha egida” What I am trying to say is that I cannot give myself self praise. Praise should come from the other people because if I am saying it because I am a chief, people will be saying maybe I am too pompous and therefore you have to forgive me. The call has been loud coming from this House. What we are asking for Madam President is action.
Finally, if you have been listening to the report, the statistics show that this practice is prevalent in the rural and resettlement areas where chiefs have jurisdiction over. The other thing is let us develop our economy. We cannot solve this problem without developing our economy. Some problems are structural in nature and if we turn a blind eye to them, we will not succeed. The challenge is that these boys and girls are walking long distances to and from school. Those men and women who waylay these innocent souls should spare these children. We should build more schools, especially in the resettlement areas to reduce the distance that they travel to and from school. We need also to improve our recreational facilities. If you take a snap survey- instead of these facilities developing, their number is going down. These recreational facilities are being closed down. So, what will these children think of? Marriage!
The issue of poverty and greediness – you know we say certain things blindly and ignorantly but they have a meaning and an impact later on. When a girl child is born, what do we say, “Aa sagewala isibaya”. We say it ignorantly but that is where the thought of greediness and saying ah-h I have got a child, I will fill up my kraal. We need to detach such things from our children that we bear. When a boy is born we say “Aah saphela isibaya”, meaning that I have to take more cows from the kraal to pay for lobola.
I can see that the orange light is now on, but allow me a minute to sum up what I have said. Madam President, if we are to address the issue of eradicating HIV/AIDS by 2030, we should seriously address the issue of child marriages. With those very few words, I would want to thank the mover of the motion and thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
WINDING UP OF MOTIONS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I would like to
appeal to Honourable Senators who have motions on the Order Paper, particularly motions which are not Committee reports to please have your motions removed from the Order Paper. As you can see, it is quite voluminous and yet we have spent about 45 minutes just going through and having the motions moved over to the following day. That means people have nothing to contribute to your motion at this point. Except for those motions which are Committee reports, it is because with Committee reports we would like the Ministers responsible or shadowed by that particular Committee to respond to the Committee report.
I am appealing to the Honourable Senators who have their motions which we have been adjourning for quite a while to please remove your motions from the Order Paper.
LIAISON AND COORDINATION COMMITTEE MEETING
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I would like to
inform the House that the Chairperson of the Liaison and Coordination Committee, Hon. L. Matuke, has convened the first meeting of the LCC for the year 2017. The meeting will be held tomorrow, Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017 in this Senate Chamber at 10:00 a.m. All Committee
Chairpersons must attend as well as the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson of the Women’s Caucus, the President and Deputy President of the National Council of Chiefs must attend this Committee tomorrow. I thank you.
Before we adjourn the House and leave, we would like to heartily welcome back Hon. Sen. S. K. Moyo –[HON SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- Thank you. You are welcome Sir.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA,
INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MATHUTHU), the Senate adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 9th May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
ZANU PF CAUCUS MEETING
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: There will be a
Caucus meeting for ZANU PF Members of Parliament on Wednesday, 10th May, 2017 at ZANU PF Headquarters at 1000 hours. You will be advised of the agenda. Please attend and be punctual.
BILLS RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have received
the following Bills from the National Assembly:
- The Judicial Laws Amendment Bill (Ease of Settling
Commercial and other Disputes) [H.B. 4A, 2016] and
- The Deeds Registries Amendment Bill [H.B. 3A, 2016].
SECOND READING
NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS COMMISSION BILL [H.B.6,
2016]
First Order read: Second Reading: National Competitiveness
Commission Bill [H.B.6, 2016].
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Thank you Madam President. Madam President, you will recall that the National Competitiveness Commission Bill [H.B.6, 2016] sailed through the National Assembly successfully after going through the processes there on the 4th April 2017. The National Competitiveness Commission Bill, hereinafter to be referred to as the NCC Bill is hereby presented in this august House for your consideration and approval. I hereby present the Second Reading before the Senate.
Madam President, let me commence by outlining the background of the proposed NCC Act. The NCC Bill will repeal and replace the National Incomes and Pricing Commission Act, hereinafter to be referred to as the NIPC to enable the rebranded commission to deal more effectively with the issues of competitiveness and ease of doing business. The major affected changes relate mainly to the proposed functions of the new commission. As you recall Madam President, the Cabinet at its 38th Session on 25th November 2014, discussed and adopted recommendations of the Cabinet Memorandum on the national pricing structure. At that meeting, Cabinet directed that NIPC be rebranded and transformed into a new entity which will be responsible for the implementation of all the recommendations contained in the Cabinet Memorandum on the National Pricing Structure which sought to improve the country’s competitiveness and reduce the cost of doing business.
Madam President, in order to implement the recommendations contained in the Cabinet Memorandum on the National Pricing Structure, the NIPC will be transformed into the new entity, the NCC, which will carry out the recommended mandates. Thus, it is necessary to repeal the National Incomes and Pricing Commission Act [Chapter
14:32] and replace it with the National Competitiveness Commission. Madam President, let me alert the House that all the law making processes for this Bill were complied with.
Explanatory Memorandum to the Clauses of the NCC Bill Let me outline the clauses of the Bill to the House.
Clause 1 sets out the Short Title of the Bill. The title is the National Competitiveness Commission Act which will focus mainly on the issues of Competitiveness and Ease of Doing Business whilst the repealed Act, the National Incomes and Pricing Commission dealt with price control of goods.
Clause 2 provides certain definitions of terms used in the Bill. Key definitions such as “competitiveness”, “ease of doing business”, “cost of doing business”, “cost drivers” and standard definitions such as “rates”, “regulatory authority” and “tariff” are defined in the context of competitiveness.
Clause 3 provides that the State is to be bound by the provisions of the Act.
Clauses 4, 5 and 6 provides for the establishment of the National Competitiveness Commission, its composition as well as its functions and powers. The NCC Commission shall consist of a Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson and a board which shall be composed of not less than nine and not more than twelve board members who are appointed by the Minister in consultation with the President.
Madam President, at least half of the commission’s board members shall be women in line with Section 17 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act 2013. Their terms and conditions of office, vacation of office, meetings, procedures of the board, and so on, are outlined in the First Schedule of the Bill. Madam President, the functions of the NCC Commission are outlined in Clause 6 (1) (a) (1) and they are to:-
- develop, coordinate and ensure implementation of key policy improvement processes, strategies and initiatives that will enhance Zimbabwe’s global competitiveness;
- monitor evolving sector specific subjects and strategies for enhancing Zimbabwe’s global competitiveness;
- review all existing and new business regulations to ascertain their impact on the cost of doing business and recommend amendments or repeals where appropriate to enhance competitiveness;
- continuously monitor the cost drivers in the business and economic environment and advise on measures to be taken to enhance productivity and address current and emerging cost challenges;
- identify sectors of the Zimbabwean economy that have potential for global competitiveness whilst also paying due attention to issues of structure and size of industry, technology gaps, skills, infrastructure and mordernisation needs;
- review all price changes by public bodies ranging from Central Government, parastatals to local authorities that charge or levy user fees, rates from the public and clients;
- undertake research and maintain a comprehensive nationwide statistical database to be used in the analysis of competitiveness across all sectors of the economy;
- to develop periodic competitiveness frameworks and strategies;
- provide a platform for dialogue between the public, private sector, labour, academia and non-state actors on the subject of competitiveness;
- to build awareness and advocacy media on matters related to competitiveness;
- produce an annual benchmarking report on the National Competitiveness such as the National Competitiveness Report; and
- perform any other function that may be conferred or imposed upon the Commission by this Act or any other enactment.
Madam President, let me state that in addition to the functions of the NCC Commission, the powers of the NCC Commission are elaborated in the Second Schedule of the Bill.
Clause 7 provides for the policy direction of the Commission. In particular, it states that the Minister may give the Commission general directions relating to the policy the Commission is to observe in the exercise of its functions. Procedures to execute policy directives are also detailed in this clause.
Clause 8 provides for the execution of contracts and instruments by the Commission as well as delegating some of the functions to authorised persons.
Clause 9 provides that the Commission shall prepare a report on all its activities and submit it to the Minister. Madam President, let me make it clear that the NCC has to submit a report (National
Competitiveness Report) on all its activities on each and every financial year. Further, the Minister may request the report at any given time when it is necessary.
Madam President, the NCC shall act as the Secretariat of the
Standing Inter-Ministerial Cabinet Committee and shall report to the Minister who will then report to the Standing Inter-Ministerial Cabinet Committee.
Clauses 10 and 11 provide for the appointment of the Executive Director of the Commission and the employment of persons necessary for the conduct of the business of the Commissions.
Clauses 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 relate to the financial powers of the
Commission. In particular, they set out what the funds of the
Commission consist of , that money not immediately required by the Commission may be invested and also that auditors shall be appointed with the Minister’s approval to audit the Commission and give reports, statements or explanations in connection with the Commission’s activities, funds and property.
Madam President, Clauses 17 and 18 provide for the powers of the Executive Director to obtain information, preservation of secrecy by every person engaged by the Commission, unless he or she is required to do by order of a competent court. It provides that no liability shall attach to the Commission for any loss or damage sustained by any person as a result of the exercise or performance of any function in good faith.
Clauses 20 and 21 provide for regulation that can be made in relation to the Commission as well as repeal the National Incomes and Pricing Act.
Clause 22 provides for the transitional necessities to the effect that any regulations which were made by the Minister under the repealed Act and which were in force immediately before the appointed day shall continue in force as if they had been made by the Commission.
Madam President, I hereby move that the National
Competitiveness Commission Bill [H.B. 6, 2016], be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee State: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 6,
2016] House in Committee
Clauses 1 to 22 put and agreed to.
First and Second Schedule put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendment.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS COMMISSION BILL [H.B.6,
2017].
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
BIMHA): Madam President, I move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Madam President, I move that Order of the Day, Number 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2017
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. RTD. GEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2017
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Madam President, I move that Order of
the Day Number 5 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I stand to make a contribution on the HIV/AIDS subject as a Member of that Committee. Firstly, let me admit that HIV/AIDS is a technical subject from the nature in which the virus mutates and therefore, becomes difficult to deal with. That puts complications within scientific adventurism in terms of providing cure for the disease. So, at any one time we should be cognisant of the difficulties that human kind is going to face in dealing with this condition.
Secondly Mr. President, I would like to emphasise as the report does on the relationship between HIV/AIDS on the one hand and poverty on the other. Two submissions have been made on that relationship. I would only want it to be understood clearly that we as the leaders in this countries and as the people charged with the relevant responsibility to run this nation, have a responsibility that we cannot avoid. Our responsibility is to deal with poverty that threatens our people and even our unborn children. If we do not do so, then we would have classified ourselves into a group that has contributed to the increase of HIV/AIDS in this nation. if we continue to do that, than I would not be surprised as future generations will classify us or the political systems as also one of the drivers of the HIV state of the nation.
Mr. President, the report also relates to sex education. I know as black people we tend to have a negative attitude towards early sex education, but let us all understand that the earlier we infuse this information into the mental system of our children, the better for us and the nation. they will grow up knowing and understanding that what they have learnt at early childhood is of value to their development process.
Mr. President let me move on and briefly look at moral recovery. I once again emphasise that we as the people of Africa have carried an enviable link with our past. We are known for being less adventurous and therefore, being respect to our traditional values. I urge that this nation rediscovers those values. I urge that in our social vocabulary, particularly social sexual vocabulary, we increase the frequency of the word ‘no’ against ‘yes’. That will contribute to our ability to manage this condition.
The report also refers to the need for the subject HIV and AIDS to be examinable. I think the Members of the Committee cannot be seen as having been adventurous. It is important that all students and tertiary institutions understand as much as possible about this condition. Why do I say so – because when you are at college, you are respectable.
During our days, those who were at college were known as umcollege. When you walked past, they would say that one is at college. I am sure that to some extent, it happens today. People say the son of so and so is at college, the son of so and so is at university.
The manifest behaviour of the university or the college student is envied by many. You talk to many children and they tell you that they would like to go to university. Therefore, if it becomes a subject that is examinable, it emphasises the value to which we attach the management of HIV and AIDS in this nation. To some extent, I would like to commend the Minister of Finance for putting forward a levy that is designed to address the issue of post NGO support for our HIV and AIDS programme. I am only concerned that if the economy does not recover, the returns from that levy will continue to dwindle and dwindle and dwindle. Once again, the poverty cycle is likely to visit us and specifically, I am talking about the levy that they are putting on airtime. That also applies to the AIDS levy, it will continue to dwindle. We know it has dwindled. It may dwindle further and render a good will null and void. I therefore urge that we seriously look at our economy. It is that economy that will be the source of poverty reduction.
Another point that I would like to raise and probably my last point is that we are thirteen years away from 2030. It looks like a long time but it is only two or three elections away to be precise and 2030 where we are hoping to achieve the 90:90 proportion. It is only three years away. The efforts we vest today is the effort that gives us the results that we desire tomorrow and inversely, the lack of effort we do not invest today is the lack of effort that is going to give us no return.
For me, it is imperative that we all look at the AIDS scourge which I must mention that some students felt that because there is now management treatment, it is not an issue. It is still an issue. We know that mutating viruses do change form and they become a stretch on research. Therefore, I suggest that we all stick in there; the leadership in this country, the parents and traditional leaders. I want to go an extra mile and put a lot of emphasis on women. This is not discriminatory. It is known that women tend to be better champions of values. Today, they are taking greater leadership roles in the country and in the world.
I urge that we give space to our women – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- and they champion this struggle for us if we want to achieve results. With these words, I do not know whether I should call them few or numerous; I thank you for the opportunity.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to support the report that was given by our Chairperson on HIV and AIDS. I will add a few words as I am a member of the Committee. It is true that what is in the report is what we witnessed in institutions of higher learning. It was really sad.
Government has taken measures to end the issues of HIV and
AIDS through the levies that were mentioned by the previous speaker. Institutions of higher learning have adults who leave their homes but when they get to universities, they present different morals. For example at one of the universities we went to, one lady said that she will not use a condom because she would have found a blesser to give her money and she would want to satisfy him by not using a condom. This is so because she is given money.
In the first place, we were ashamed of what these students were saying. We asked ourselves if the parents knew that their child has a blesser at the university. The parents would have worked very hard by selling their livestock to pay fees and clothes for the children to be well dressed among others but the children have the audacity to stand up and say that they do not urge their partners to use condoms because they are blessers. We asked them why they call them blessers and they responded that they are the ones who give them money.
When we further looked at this issue, as the report and the previous speaker said, the institutes of higher learning, that is where we find the learned who should assist the Government in implementing Government policy but they are doing the opposite.
On drugs, one student said that when they go for studies, some students sleep over there and they will be taking drugs. The girls will be high and will not even know who they were intimate with. They will wake up the next morning and they will not recall what will have happened because of the drugs. It is sad that Zimbabwe is a small nation but the issue of drugs has become a menace. That is an issue that we need to address as a nation in schools and with our children. The issue of drugs is causing deaths because of being high and drunkenness. The children will tell you that they do not know what would have happened, they will only find themselves waking up in the morning because of the drugs they would have taken. As a Committee or as Parliamentarians, we need to sit down and consider what we can do. The issue of drugs is there and the girl child is having “blessers” out there. What are we going to do? The parents are struggling, they do not have anything and they are sacrificing for their children to go to school so that they can have a better future.
We also noticed a problem in that our lecturers might have policies on HIV and AIDS but the students do not know that. This is a reflection in another way that they are not assisting these students to have awareness and consequences of HIV/AIDS. We cannot leave out these lecturers because they are hiding out these policies when the students need to know what is happening. We still have a lot of work ahead of us as a nation. That is why we sometimes advocate that our Parliament be allocated more money in the Budget so that the Committees continue going on tours and do their oversight role. If Parliament does not have money, Committees cannot perform their oversight function. We will be seated here whilst Government policies will not be implemented. The implementation of policies is good for the nation but because Parliament is not getting adequate resources, it is a stumbling block that affects our performance as Members of Parliament. The Budget allocation to
Parliament is very little and does not enable Parliament to do its work.
When I asked, what do you want from those “blessers”? They said they need accommodation and food. If you tell them the traditional foods we used to eat, they do not accept that because life has changed. We have realised that no student is not aware of the struggle that their parents are going through to take them to colleges but they are not taking cognisant of all that. Let us look at it as a nation and find ways of reducing the HIV/AIDS pandemic in the institutes of higher learning. There is too much freedom at the institutions of higher learning and some of these freedoms are now giving us challenges. They are creating problems that are affecting the nation at large.
We would also want to hear from this House, what we can do because we seem to be failing to handle this issue because when a country says we need to contribute to Aids Levy to curb the HIV pandemic, then you have children saying that they have “blessers” to provide them with food. It is a challenge that we need to address. Let us share ideas because we might lose most of our children because of the situation that we witnessed.
We want to thank the Chairperson for presenting the correct report of what we witnessed in universities and colleges. Some were requesting that they need clinics because it is difficult for them to access ARVs from their provinces and they miss some of their lessons. This will also make people know that this one is living positive because they will have gone to collect their medication. If the freedoms are not curtailed, we will still have the challenge. This issue requires Government intervention as well as the drugs. Can we really deploy in colleges, because it is happening – children are getting drunk and getting high. Therefore, the HIV/AIDS prevalence rate will remain high. We want to thank the Committee and the Chairperson, Hon. Sen. Timveos. I am sure your report will assist Government in coming up with policies.
NAC is trying its best but it seems not to be working out. We would want to think that once the Government adopts this report, I am sure they will be able to realise and come up with measures as to how we can reduce the HIV/AIDS prevalence rate. It is not only in higher institutions of learning, there is also a lot of mobility amongst people that are in love. Let us assist each other and ensure that Government policy becomes successful. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I would want to add my voice on the debate of the Report on HIV/AIDS and tour that we had as a Committee. I am also a member of the Committee. The other issue that we realised was that when students go to universities and colleges, the fees that they are told is not the correct amount. The figures are inflated when they get there. So for them to communicate with their parents becomes a challenge. That is why you find students ending up engaging in such activities because they know that their parents will not be able to afford the fees. The male students end up engaging in artisanal mining and in drugs. Their plea was that, learning institutions should inform them the correct amounts. If it is
$500, let it be $500 but when they get to the colleges, the money would be raised from maybe 300 to 500. That child has no means of getting the $500 and they end up engaging in such activities.
What pains me are the “blessers”. The “blessers” are elderly people. They go there with their expensive cars, the Hummers, the Discoveries, the Ford Rangers, you name them and approach these children. These children are not approached by men of their age and I always ask to say, what is making you go for elderly men? Some people do not even take their HIV tablets at home and the wife is not even aware. The student then is not able to advocate for a condom because she wants money. The male students end up going to do drugs because there are no elderly women or there are few of them who can look after these young male students.
At one institution, the students told us that the administration does not even ask them where they were going when they knew that there were blessers to spoil them. What do they think will happen after being spoilt by those blessers? I do not know what spirit has come over our children because the child does not even want to use the condom and they will tell you that I want one with a good scent. You forget that you came to school to educate youself so that you are empowered and you can have a better future. The sad thing is that the female students can become pregnant, leave school and the male student stays at school. The girl student is always at a disadvantage.
Regarding our children, we need the Almighty to intervene. We can make efforts to eradicate HIV/AIDS, but it does not seem to be working. At one workshop, the children said that they want to be intimate at the age of nine years. If they engage in sexual activities at nine years, then it means that they will become HIV infected at a tender age. Our children are now seized with a satanic spirit. I will continue hammering on the issue that men should not go after these young students. Why do you go to take the young children because you do not even eat a raw apple or guava? The reason why you do not eat it is because it is bitter – why can you not go for people of your own age? They do not even go after the elderly ones but they want to go for the young ones. No one is going after your child. Your child has been probably taken abroad but you want to go for other parents’ children and infect them with different diseases because when you become of age, you already know your status. But, you go and look for young female students or maybe it is because of this myth that if you are intimate with young children, you will be healed. Is that true?
If you meet someone of your age and you are both positive, you can look after yourselves but if you go after the female student, you have spoilt her life and when that girl finally gets pregnant, she is already HIV positive and she will infect her husband. Let us leave these students so that they can marry and give birth to children who are not HIV positive but at a later stage, that child may become infected by the HIV/AIDS virus.
On the issue of grants, if that money was available for the welfare of the students, then probably we would be having less of this promiscuity because sometimes they can spend the whole day with nothing to eat and just having maputi. Some are unable to go back to their rural homes. Sometimes they do not even have bus fare to go probably to Bulawayo or their provinces to go and get their next supply of ARVs. That is what is affecting the lives of most of these children. Some of the teachers were asked if they knew about their children and they responded to say, sometimes they would only realise that the child is not coming to school, only to discover that they had died and were already buried. With those few words, I want to thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity that you have given me. I want to thank the Chairperson of the HIV/AIDS Committee, Hon. Sen. Timveos for the report that she tabled in this House and the seconder of that report, Hon. Sen. Masuku. I am a Member of that Committee and what we saw when we went round is disheartening Mr. President.
What concerned me most was that if a person is on ARVs, that person has to go and get ARVs from their provinces. Imagine having to travel from Lupane to Mutare. I had my brother’s child who was on
ARVs and once a person defaults, it affects him and the person can die.
So, my request is that when one is no longer in that province, there should be measures to ensure that we have a policy that ensures that that person can access the ARVs in the area that he is. So, I think that is something that should be considered by those in the Ministry of Health and Child Care that if they have a card to show that they are on ARVs, they should access those tablets in whatever areas they are in.
Mr. President, what I witnessed was that there was an issue on poverty, hunger, as well as accommodation. My request is that, this House and the Government should ensure that there is adequate accommodation for the students because it is true that if a person does not have shelter, they will do anything in order to get accommodation. What we are saying is that the Ministry or the Government should ensure that universities and colleges have adequate accommodation for the students to enable us to debate and come up with measures as to how we can deal with the issue of HIV/AIDS.
Mr. President, on the issue of blessers, the students said that if I get
$500, does it warrant me to use a condom because that person will have blessed me, so I also have to return the favour but without knowing that it is detrimental to the life of the child. We are pleading with the Government in this House that we should ensure that policies are put in place because sometimes the child has nothing at her disposal.
Mr. President, what also pained me was that in the institutions of higher learning, sometimes there are no hospitals and there are no adequate medicines. So, I am saying in these institutions of higher learning, we would want this House to support that they also put hospitals, adequate human resources and medicines to ensure that people get their medication on time. My request in this House and from the Government is that the issue of HIV/AIDS should be taken as a subject and it should be given adequate time for students to learn about it because we realised that awareness and HIV/AIDS is inadequate.
My request is that this House and the Government should ensure that HIV/AIDS becomes a subject and students should be given adequate time to learn about it. When we talked to the lecturers, all was well but when we met with the students it appeared to be a new topic.
Mr. President, that should be looked into and HIV/AIDS should be a subject. The other thing I wanted to say is that as the august House, we are supporting that if possible there should be that subject so that people can be educated. With these few words, I want to thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for this opportunity that you have given me. Mr. President, this is not a new issue but what we realise is that it depends on where the children is coming from. Morals do not just start from the highway. I am sure that within our homes, sometimes it is a challenge because you may be living with someone of loose morals. You find that the mother and father are actually scared of their children and cannot reprimand them just because the child is now a graduate. That child getting such treatment feels that I am now honourable and it becomes difficult to talk to them. They see us parents as uneducated and do not listen to any counseling that may come from us.
My request is that men and women, fathers and mothers, and even the nation at large, know that a child is a child no matter how old they are because their actions or behaviour reflect on you as the parent. Even if a child is married, whatever they do in that family, where she is married it will not reflect on the child but you the parent. The issue of HIV/AIDS is there to stay. There are a lot of people who look beautiful but they are on ARVs. The ARVs are just the same as BP tablets. What is the difference? Take your ARVs so that you live longer but do not go amongst the innocent students and get into intimacy when you know that you are infected.
People should be wary of their morals. I have realised that institutes of higher learning are no longer admirable. When a child comes home on vacation, they come home as if they are children with morals and yet what they do there is bad. Even the administration should have laws and regulations that control these children. If you go to the avenues, you will find young girls there. Now, we call them sex workers meaning that they are workers in that field. How will the Government assist? If we are to pay that levy, will it be able to save everyone? It is impossible. So let us try and find out the traditional norms and values that we need to inculcate in our children.
I have an experience whereby one lazy person got into the middle of my field with a UD truck and stole my maize. If you do not work with your own hands, know that there are two things. You need to be able to do the mental or to work with your hands. So, if you cannot work with your hands, ensure that you are academically educated. If you are not educated and cannot use your hands, what can you do? We want to thank Hon. Sen. Timveos and Hon. Sen. Chimhini for the report that was tabled.
As was said by other Senators, it is good for our children to have values but the elderly should not abuse students but this is very difficult because you hear others talking of wanting the sweet sixteens’. As old as we are, where do you think we are still going? Even if the sweet sixteen comes to me, what will I do with that sweet sixteen? So, we want to emphasise Mr. President, that we need to know our ages. I realise that Sen. Musaka is enjoying it but I am serious. It is important Mr. President for us to know our ages. We also want to urge our children to be tested and find ways of living their lives. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I am happy
with the debate that is before us. Firstly, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Timveos for the report that she tabled from the Committee on
HIV/AIDS. Yes, it is a very important issue but what is good should be appreciated, not to say these things when a person has died. I think our Government had foresight that HIV/AIDS would affect the nation and even development. They came up with a policy that would then come and assist everyone in the nation. Medication was sought and if I am not mistaken, Zimbabwe is one of the countries within the SADC that managed to reduce the HIV/AIDS prevalence rate through awareness campaigns.
I want to thank you so much Hon. Makore for what you said. I was laughing with my colleague here that it is as if we discussed what you said. I am one of the Hon. Members who are saying poverty is what is leading our children into such promiscuity. Why is it in colleges, hospitals and such other institutions only? I agree with Hon. Makore that charity begins at home. Some have said that to be forewarned is to be forearmed. If both mother and father are in the home and we see our children going and coming back at whatever time they want; we get into bed and sleep knowing that our child is not yet at home. We tell others that you should be aware that John might knock.
What values are we inculcating in our children? I am saying this issue lies with the parents. As parents, we need to educate our children because some of the behaviours that we are doing as parents, if we are the ones being seen picking up girl children, my boy child will say whatever my father is doing is right. If the girl child sees me going out while the father is not there, she will assume that that is right. Every time, we always want to blame the Government. Who really is the Government? The Government is us the people. We should not continue piling things on the Government but we should address these issues. The Government has enough problems to deal with resuscitating the economy.
What troubles me in Zimbabwe is that we have shunned our values. I once mentioned that when we were growing up, the girl child used to be with the grandmothers and mothers in the kitchen. The boy child would be with the grandfathers and fathers. Children were advised on what was expected of them. Now, there are no such situations. We now talk about the Government. Should the Government come to our houses and tell us how to raise our children? We are now saying that they come from home to college and the money is not adequate.
From my assessment as a person who comes from rural areas, I have noticed that those children who are poor are the ones who are well disciplined at colleges. Those who lack discipline are from middle and wealthy families. When you look at the issue of drugs, those are the children who are a problem. When we come here, we do not look at the real matters. We always say that the Government should do this and that. We are the Government, let us instill discipline in the areas where we come from and also follow our values as Africans.
I have a young sister, the last born in our family who went to the United Kingdom in 2000; I remember she came back in 2006 and she was saying that in terms of drugs, what is happening in Europe is bad. It is not a crime for a child to indulge in drugs. Our children are moving around – their mothers are in Europe and they go there and come back. Mothers and grandmothers go there because they have been invited by the children. When we get and come back, we shun our values. When you get into the street, you see someone as old as my mother wearing a trousers moving around. They have already left dresses and they want to show people that they have come from Europe. They would like to show that they are different and that they are more superior. There is a difference there. They would have already lost their African values.
In these institutes of higher learning, we have a challenge in the caliber of lecturers. I heard that the Committee Members from this
Committee mentioned that it was evident that the lecturers have the policies in their offices but the student is not aware. Why is that lecturer holding that paper? Is it not that they were given the policy to give awareness to the students. As legislators, when we go to our constituencies, we are also supposed to raise awareness on the issue.
For us to be Ministers and Members of Parliament, we came from those lecturers. So, they should educate the children as to what is expected of them. I think the other challenge that I have noticed is that in colleges and other universities, most of them are male. Since they are male, they are those men who no longer have morals and values. Instead of being guardian to the children, they end up wanting relationships with the girl student. For the lecturer to say if you sleep with a man without a condom you will get HIV and AIDS, it then becomes difficult. They no longer give that knowledge to their children. It is not happening because their conduct is not right.
There was once a policy that stated that if a lecturer or teacher was caught having a relationship with a student, that lecturer or teacher had to be dismissed. We have a challenge here in Zimbabwe. We will continue mourning that if only the Government had more funds and could do a, b, c and d. That person should be dismissed, as was the policy. So, all of that is not being done.
I do not agree that students are poor and do not have money to pay. I was in boarding school at form two level and we would be sent to school without a trunk but we behaved knowing that we had come to be educated. Students would not go out of the school yard without a pass. Why is it that today students are allowed to go out of the school yard without a pass? We need to come up with rules and regulations. We are not implementing policy. The policy is there but it is not being implemented.
I am not in the Committee but I am happy and impressed by the visits that were done by our colleagues. Right now, it has become enlightenment to all of us and a shock that children do not want to use condoms. If the Committee had not gone out, we would not be aware of the challenges that are happening. As we are in this august House, let us go and raise awareness in our constituencies and also inform parents that this is what the children are engaged in at colleges. We should know that charity begins at home. Values are inculcated at home. If we are not organised and we are not of high moral value as parents, we will not manage. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Hon. President for
the opportunity that you have given me to add my voice to the report on HIV and AIDS. It is a painful issue because there are very few of us who have not lost relatives due to HIV and AIDS. I would like to thank the Government on this issue that it has done its part and has put in place the HIV and AIDS levy. This has enabled a lot of people to survive.
My issue is in two parts. In my opinion, some of our policies as Government as well as our traditional knowledge were supposed to be merged in order to fight such diseases. I think of the legal age of majority that gives children the right to do whatever they want and not allowing the parents to intervene.
I go to our traditional norms. We had aunties who would seat down with the child before she is married. I am surprised when we talk of the children using condoms. Long ago, a child could not engage in sexual intercourse until they got married. In our area, if a child indulge before marriage, a blanket was bought and a big hole was put to show that that this child was no longer a virgin. Where did the aunties go? They are the ones that are telling them to use condoms, is that the way we can advise our children. What was better was that as elderly men and women, we should be looking at the fact that, where did our values gone, then come together and see how we can bring them back.
When we look at the issue of the children who are abused by their parents. Who will the child listen to if the Government says, leave that child, she has become of age. If a stick has to be used, it must be used for a child to have good values. Let us have such policies in place. Why do we need traditional leaders if we are not using them. Why can we not bring the parents together and advocate for virginity testing to be done for a child to get married. When your child is getting married, you do not even know whether the child is still a virgin or not, you just charge and you are advocating for the use of condoms.
Mr. President, I think we need to seat down and come up with better ideas and not to think that things should work this way, yet we are giving our children the freedom to go and engage but with a condom.
The parents are there, looking after the children, giving them everything. Mr. President, it is painful. I passed through some nightclubs at night and the girls are naked. You come here and blame the sugar daddies, what do you want them to do when people are naked on the streets. That is not the case and with those few words Mr. President, I want to thank you.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: Mr. President, thank you for giving me the opportunity for me to add a few words on this motion that was brought by Hon. Sen. Timvios in this august House. I am not in the HIV Committee, however, I was very much touched by what was being contributed by most Hon. Senators. It is saddening for us as chiefs as we see that our values are slowly eroding away from people. Some previous speakers spoke about sugar daddies who are so much of a problem in institutions of higher learning. It is true that they are indeed problematic because they fall in love and abuse these young children. Their intention is not to marry them but for them to benefit from them whilst abusing them.
People no longer have conscience at all that is why they do such scurry things. Truthfully, if you have a girl child and you leave them at home, you go to an institution of higher learning take advantage of another child who is same age as your child because you have money, where is your conscience. That is where our problem is. If the Government is to strengthen the laws concerning this issue, it would go a long way in assisting to curb this issue.
Concerning the issue of transmission of HIV/AID, people who do this intentionally, should be put under the law. There should be a law that takes care of these actions so that they pay for their deeds. Conscience no longer exist amongst us as people and this is caused by what we call democracy. The human rights that we always talk about. The children that move around with sugar daddies and do what they want believing it is their right to do whatever they want, whenever they want and to have sugar daddies, however it is a bad thing.
I remember the former South African President, Thabo Mbeki once released a statement that HIV/AIDS is nonexistent but it is there because of poverty. He said that what perpetuates HIV/AIDS is poverty and people did not understand what he meant. What he meant was that our poverty and suffering as Zimbabwe and the whole of Africa is what leads our children to handle themselves the way they do, having sugar daddies and dating for money’s sake. I have heard that these sugar daddies are now referred to as “blessers”.
As chiefs, we are here to advise you and to correct you in your wrong ways. It is amazing that the pastors, the bishops, the elderly and even Members of Parliament are amongst those who do wrong. As we sit in this august House, I beg with you Hon. Members, let us have conscience. Let us go to church; perhaps the Lord could have mercy upon us. He said it in his Bible that if you follow my commandments, you will not die of diseases of foreigners. The diseases that are referred to are like HIV/AIDS. What God is saying is that we should follow his commandments. We should have our conscience and people should not be brave. That is a very bad thing. With those few words, I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. BUKA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA, the Senate adjourned at Nine Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 10th May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
INVITATION TO A BRIEFING BY ZIPAH
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the Senate that the Executive Committee of the Zimbabwe
Parliamentarians on HIV and AIDS (ZIPAH) is inviting all its members to a briefing tomorrow the 11th of May, 2017 at 1300 hours in the Government Caucus room. All members are urged to attend.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Madam President, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2017
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2017
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: May I appeal to
Hon. Senators whose motions are still on the Order Paper, except for the first two and those motions which are not Committee reports, to please move that they be wound up.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDGS No. 3
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDGs No. 3: “Ensure
Healthy Lives and Promote Well-being for all at all ages.
HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI: I second.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 Pursuant to its oversight role over the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), the Thematic Committee on SDGs enquired into SDG No.3 “Ensure Healthy Lives and Promote WellBeing for All At All Ages”. The Committee was compelled to enquire on SDG No.3 as part of the implementation of the Post 2015 development agenda, that of sustainable development goals and the importance of a healthy nation for the production of the economy.
2.0 OBJECTIVES
The objectives of the enquiry were:
2.1 To appreciate the provision of primary health care in
Zimbabwe, combating the prevalence of non-communicable and communicable diseases, combating the outbreaks of recurrent diseases, reducing child mortality rates and improving maternal health care and the nutrition policy and nutrition status of children under five years in
Zimbabwe; and
2.2 To assess and monitor the implementation of SDG No. 3 in
Zimbabwe.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee held oral evidence sessions with the following stakeholders:
- The Ministry of Health and Child Care represented by the
Permanent Secretary Brigadier Gen. Dr. J. Gwinji. Dr Gwinji briefed the Committee on a number of issues which include the provision of primary health care in Zimbabwe, combating the prevalence of noncommunicable and communicable diseases, combating the outbreaks of recurrent diseases, reducing child mortality rates and improving maternal health care and the nutrition policy and nutrition status of children under five years in Zimbabwe.
- The Food and Nutrition Council represented by Mr. G.
Kembo who briefed the Committee on the nutrition policy in Zimbabwe.
- Natpharm represented by Mr. R. Mtombeni, the Procurement
Manager on behalf of Mrs. Sifeku Managing Director Natpharm. Mr.
Mtombeni briefed the Committee on drugs supply.
- The Traditional Medical Practitioners Council of Zimbabwe represented by Mr. Ndoro, Director Traditional Medicines in the Ministry of Health and Child Care on the traditional medicines and practitioners.
3.1 The Committee conducted familiarisation visits to Murehwa
District Hospital and Marondera Provincial Hospital from the 29th to the 30th of November 2016 respectively. The visits conducted in Murehwa and Marondera aided to an appreciation of the provision of primary health care by district and provincial hospitals in Zimbabwe.
- THE COMMITTEE FINDINGS
- Ministry of Health and Child Care
The Committee was informed by the Permanent Secretary in the
Ministry of Health and Child Care, Brig. Gen. Dr. J. Gwinji that primary health care is a strategy to deliver health care services to individuals, families and communities in the country’s pursuit towards meeting SDG He further pointed out to the Committee that maternal, neonatal and child health are the cornerstones of primary health care with the following services being provided; family planning, promotion of good nutrition and breastfeeding, immunisations, provision of adequate, safe water and sanitation. The importance of Village Health Workers (VHW) was also articulated as he informed the Committee that there are at the core of primary health care.
Dr. Gwinji also pointed out that VHW are community based cadres selected by fellow villagers and trained by the Ministry of Health and Child Care to provide health education, to assist in the promotion of healthy life styles and to assist in the prevention of communicable and non-communicable diseases. The Village Health Workers feed into rural health centres or clinics and are captured into the national health information system. He also stressed out the fact that currently there are over 1500 clinics operational with over 1000 planned for in line with ZIM ASSET. Dr. Gwinji reiterated that the Government has noted a series of challenges which include; inadequate funding for construction of new clinics, unavailability of nurses due to lack of funding for additional salaries, 50% shortage of VHW, food insecurity and the high burden of HIV & AIDS, communicable and non-communicable diseases. The Committee also learnt from Dr. Gwinji that the Ministry of Health and Child Care is pleased with the high coverage rates for childhood immunisations, the improvement in the national nutrition status, the establishment of waiting mother’s homes and high medicine availability at rural health centres and clinics.1
- Prevalence of communicable and non-communicable diseases
Dr. Gwinji pointed out to the Committee that cancer and diabetes are among the four major non-communicable diseases targeted for action by the global environment. The non-communicable diseases (NCDs) in 2012 accounted for over 17 million deaths, cancers 8.2 million deaths and diabetes 1.5 million deaths. The Committee was also informed of the sad fact that the burden of diabetes continues to increase to the extent that the World Health Day Commemorations focused on diabetes. He also informed the Committee that currently more women are at greater risk of developing diabetes than men. Dr. Gwinji pointed out that cancer has grown to become a public health problem globally. The World Health Organisation earmarked the 4th of February annually to be recognised as the World Cancer Day for the purpose of raising awareness and mobilising support for cancer control. The Committee learnt through Dr. Gwinji’s highlights that there are five most common cancers and these are ranked according to their disease burden. These include cervical cancer, Kaposi sarcoma, breast cancer, prostate cancer and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Dr. Gwinji informed the Committee that current Anti-Retroviral treatment is one pill per day with minimal side effects. ART treatment is $100 per year as Government and $70 per patient per month. The Permanent Secretary proposed that on regional and international, ART treatment needs to go down to less than $70 per month.
- Combating outbreaks of recurrent diseases
The Committee also learnt through Dr. Gwinji, that the role of the Ministry of Health and Child Care includes detecting early and responding effectively and timeously to control, stop the spread and prevent the loss of life due to epidemic prone diseases. That the Ministry of Health and Child Care requires human, material resources, information, tools and medical supplies and logistics to react quickly to be aware of diseases outbreak on time. Dr. Gwinji pointed out that there is need to strengthen the national capacity for early warning systems, disaster risk reduction and management of national and potential global health risks in accordance with the SDGs.
He also informed the Committee that there is a rapid disease notification system through which the Ministry publishes a weekly bulletin which reports diseases, conditions and events of public health concern. Included in the bulletin are cholera, common diarrhea, typhoid, maternal deaths, malaria, etc. The Committee was informed that there is need to ensure prompt treatment and identify root cause for future prevention efforts. Therefore, there is need to raise awareness on the importance of safe water, sanitation and hygiene.
The Ministry of Health and Child Care stressed out that it continues to advocate for the provision of adequate, safe water in urban areas, improved sanitation and hygiene as a way of addressing determinants of the diseases and ending ongoing outbreaks of typhoid and common diarrhea. The Committee was informed of the Integrated Disease Surveillance and Response, (IDSR) which provides the required guidance in dealing with outbreaks of diseases and conditions of public health significance.
Dr. Gwinji also pointed out that the country has conducted Ebola surveillance at major ports of entry. In a bid to promote the Implementation of International Health Regulations, IDSR has conducted trainings of rapid response teams in districts, cities and provinces and has provided training of district executives, post basic nurse training schools, and the uniformed forces. The Ministry of Health and Child Care stressed that it is awaiting adequate resources to train all health facility staff. That the All Hazard approach and Emergency response framework housed in the epidemiology and disease control directorate, works closely with the Department of Civil Protection and convenes an Inter-agency Coordination Committee on Health for regular updates on outbreaks and response mechanisms.
The Ministry of Health and Child Care reiterated to the Committee the fact that is need for more Government support seeing some Southern African countries are reluctant to collaborate even when an outbreak in their territory threaten the nation. Dr. Gwinji further said that that there has been no breakthrough from traditional medicines as they remain individualistic and secretive. However, a department now exists in the Ministry to bridge the gap and do further research of the medicines.
4.1.4 Reducing child mortality rates and maternal health care
The Committee learnt from the Ministry of Health that the major causal factors for under five mortality rates include pneumonia, diarrhea, malaria, HIV/AIDS, measles, malnutrition, meningitis, tetanus among others and major causes of deaths of new borns include asphyxia, infection and prematurity. Sadly, HIV/AIDs remain the major contributor of childhood morbidity and mortality in Zimbabwe, a fact reiterated by Dr. Gwinji to the Committee.
The Committee was also informed that scientifically proven child health interventions includes; integrated management of neo-natal and childhood illnesses, immunisation programme, introduction of new vaccines, breastfeeding, growth and monitoring, pediatric HIV intervention strategies, community based management of diarrhea, malaria, pneumonia and malnutrition, etc. The Ministry intervenes through the following; water, sanitation and hygiene interventions, breastfeeding, oral rehydration solution, prioritising community case management. The major challenges in the Ministry of Health include; high turnover of skilled manpower; low staff morale, inadequate drugs and supplies, user fees, inadequate nurses trained in pediatrics, etc. Dr.
Gwinji said that there is need for more training in mid-wifery. The Ministry of Health pointed out that surveys show improvement of skilled attendance at birth and institutional deliveries arose to 80%, ante-natal care coverage rose to 94% and neonatal mortality rate dropped down to 29/1000 live births in 2014. A commendable achievement of the Ministry of Health and Child Welfare include the decline in maternal mortality rates by 50% from 1 068 deaths per 100 000 live births in 2002 to 525 deaths per 100 000 live births in 2012. That the survey of 2014, show improvement in contraceptive prevalence rate, skilled birth attendance and post-natal care. The interventions made to improve maternal health care in 2015 include 480 service providers (doctors, midwives, nurses), training of jadelle insertion, clinical mentorship of doctors and nurses in different areas (Caesarea section, sonography, theatre techniques, etc.), repairing obstetrics fistula, cervical cancer screening and the establishment of 32
VIAC sites.
4.1.5 Nutrition
Brig. Gen Dr. Gwinji informed the Committee that a comprehensive policy exists which still has to be endorsed by the Ministry. That the policy covers essential nutrition status and child survival. The policy covers the following interventions; early initiation of breast feeding, complimentary feeding, growth monitoring, management of acute nutrition, infant and young child feeding counselling, protection of breast feeding and maternity protection. He also pointed out that there is a possibility of the misuse of breast milk substitutes as some mothers end up concentrating on formula feeding. The policy has also put into consideration breastfeeding hours and care centre close to the work place. That there is need for a multi-sectoral approach to curb malnutrition, for example the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services and Ministry of Agriculture surveys show that half a million people need food assistance, 400 000 children under five, 7 000 children, 37 000 pregnant women may suffer malnutrition. Other sectors include the Food and Nutrition Council and the Zimbabwe Vulnerability Assessment Committee which provide the scope for sharing information on nutrition in Zimbabwe. That stunting growth is now at 27% and wasting remains at 3%, therefore nutritionists are looking at ways to reduce it.
4.2 Food and Nutrition Council
Mr. Kembo, Director of the Food and Nutrition Council pointed out that the council is an agency mandated for the coordination, analysis and promotion of a multi-sectoral response to food and nutrition insecurity in Zimbabwe.
He pointed out that the council is guided by the SDG 2 which aims to achieve:
- Food security and improved nutrition;
- Promoting sustainable agriculture;
- End hunger and ensure access by all people to safe nutritious
food all year round and to end all forms of malnutrition including achieving by 2025, 40% the internationally agreed targets on stunting and wasting on children under five years of age and address the nutritional needs of adolescent girls, pregnant and lactating women and older persons by 2030; and
- Charting a practical way forward in terms of fulfilling legal and existing commitments under the ZIM ASSET cluster, advising Government on a strategic policy direction for food and nutrition security, promoting multi sectoral and innovative approaches for addressing food and nutrition security in line with ZIM ASSET and providing backstopping to the Working Party for Food and Nutrition
Security.
4.2.2 The Committee learnt that the Food and Nutrition Council is a council involved in engagements with multiple ministries and other stakeholders and aims to strengthen its multi stakeholder fora which include the United Nations, Government and Non-Government actors as well as through decentralised structures which include Food and Nutrition and Security Committees at national, provincial, district and sub-district levels. Senior Government officials are recognised in the formation of committees which are committed to the successful launch of the Food and Nutrition Security Policy to ensure high level attention on food and nutrition security issues. That there is the Cabinet
Committee on Food and Nutrition Security chaired by the Vice President with participation from 17 ministries, Working Party for Permanent
Secretaries Chaired by the Deputy Chief Secretary in the Office of the
President and Cabinet with the participation from 20 Permanent Secretaries, National Food and Nutrition Security Committee Chaired by the Permanent Secretary under the Vice President’s Office, the Director of the council being the co- chair and the Provincial , District and Ward
Food and Nutrition Security Committee chaired by the Ministry of Agriculture and co-chaired by the Ministry of Labour and Social Services.
4.2.3 Mr. Kembo reiterated to the Committee the fact that malnutrition and food insecurity are the biggest risk factors the country is facing as it affects close to 30% of Zimbabwean children under five, a situation that is compounded by the high prevalence of food insecurity which stands at 42% in rural areas. For children under five, 1 in every 3 is malnourished. He informed the Committee that the main causal factors for malnutrition in Zimbabwe include high levels of poverty, low and erratic economic growth, high levels of inequality and poor implementation of well-meaning and soundly designed policies and strategies. The council noted the following to the Committee as leading causal factors in the high prevalence of malnutrition:
- Inadequate knowledge and practices regarding appropriate healthy diets for children, adults, mothers and caregivers of the children in the first 1000 days of their life;
- Weak capacity systems for delivering community based nutrition services;
- Inadequate information guiding the design of relevant nutrition interventions, inadequate knowledge with regards to practices in relation to water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH);
- Weak coordination and resource mobilisation which militates against the successful service coverage for high impact interventions.2 2.4 The Committee learnt that the Food and Nutrition Council is committed to Scaling Up of Nutrition Movement (SUN) whose main focus include improving nutrition during the first critical days between a woman’s pregnancy and her child’ second birthday. The SUN Movement aims to understand the following:
- how diverse groups share information on various platforms therefore encourages multi sector participation;
- the programmes implemented such as the common results framework for national nutrition plan;
- How much money is spent through mobilising and tracking resources with an impact on nutrition and the laws passed.
4.2.5 FNC questioned the rationale behind raising Value Added Tax for dietary foods such as meat, and proposed that VAT should be raised on sugary, salty foods and alcohol and reduce VAT on meat products and informed the Committee that communities in Zimbabwe should be urged to prioritise the importance of nutritional gardens. FNC pointed out that it is responsible for co-ordinating and leading the
Zimbabwe Vulnerability Assessment Committee (ZIMVAC), a leading Government consortium of UN agencies, NGOs and other international organisations established in 2002 as part of SADC’s Vulnerability Assessment and Analysis System (VAA). The Committee learnt of the importance of ZIMVAC which include contributing towards updating the government and its development partners on the food and nutrition security situation through baseline surveys, assessments, monitoring, and complementing exercises and other organisations such as ZIMSTAT. Since its inception ZIMVAC has undertaken 15 rural livelihoods Assessments (RLAs) and five Urban Livelihoods Assessments conducted in 2003, 2006, 2009, 2011 and 2016 and observed that early warning systems, diets and copying strategies are poor. The assessments were guided by ZIM ASSET of 2013 food and nutrition cluster as well as the Food and Nutrition Security Policy.
4.3 National Pharmaceutical Company of Zimbabwe
(Natpharm)
- Mtombeni pointed out that Natpharm was a Government stores department which was commercialised in 2001 and is run by a Board of Directors. It is involved in the procurement of medicine and medicine supplies, distribution and warehousing of drugs and equipment. Natpharm has over the years been receiving partner support in the procurement and in the delivery of medicines. It works with a formal tender system target medicines that are in the current register of the Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe. Natpharm pointed out to the Committee that all medicines that come into the country are registered through MCAZ. Natpharm has a Strategic Business Unit within its organisation whose main role include procuring medicine supplies for both the public and the private sector.
- The Committee was informed that Natpharm has storage facilities and warehouses for storage of drugs. It has five cold rooms, four of them in Harare, one in Bulawayo and six warehouses in the country, that is Harare, Mutare, Gweru, Masvingo, Bulawayo and
Chinhoyi.
- Natpharm has a fleet of vehicles comprising of 23 delivery trucks with 95% delivery coverage in the country. The poor state of most of the roads in Zimbabwe militates against 100% coverage of
Natpharm’s distribution of medicine supplies, hence the organisation is at most of the times obliged to leave medicine supplies for inaccessible areas at some district hospitals.
- Natpharm shared with the Committee its aspiration to come up with Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) and joint ventures with more development partners noting the resource constraints the Ministry of
Finance and Economic Development faces in funding the institution. Natpharm aspires to monopolise the procurement of all medicines and eliminate competition from other organisations.
- The prevailing situation in the health sector was reiterated to the Committee that most provincial and central hospitals find themselves in a worse situation because of shortage of resources and drugs rather than the rural health centres. Mr. Mtombeni laments due to the fact that donations are not sufficient and target mostly the peripherals but stressed the fact that Natpharm has favourable competitive advantage over other organisations involved in the procurement of drugs due to the fact that it is the largest procurer and wholesaler of drugs in the country to the Committee.
- Mtombeni informed the Committee that the National Aids Council has been playing a pivotal role in assisting Natpharm in the procurement of ART drugs and anti-cancer drugs where Natpharm identifies the drugs that are in short supply in the market and NAC identifies and procures the drugs from the supplier. Profits are shared between Natpharm and NAC. The Committee was also informed of a Steering Committee on ICT in the Ministry of Health which works with public institutions which helps in identifying drugs in short supply.
- The Committee learnt of Natpharm partners which include; The Global Fund, UNDP, UNICEF, USAID, CHEMONICS, JSI which are implementing partners for USAID, WHO and National AIDS
Council.
- In terms of Vital, Essential and Necessary (VEN) classification; vital medicines are around 36 % and essentials are around 24 % and Necessary 40% as at 14 February 2017. Vital medicines are life medicines which hospitals cannot do without and whose shortage leads to deaths. Essential medicines are essential. Their unavailability can cause great discomfort but patients will not die. Necessary drugs cause discomfort when they are not available but their unavailability or shortage do not lead to deaths.
- Like all the other health institutions in the country, Natpharm pointed out to the Committee that it is affected by liquidity challenges, thus it has been calling for assistance in recapitalisation for it to run its operations. It is owed US$27 million by the government and has not been receiving any funding from the fiscus. This has caused heavy reliance on donor support for essential drugs, warehousing, procurement and distribution.
- The Committee was informed by Natpharm that Malaysia specializes in the production of latex, therefore Natpharm procures latex products from Malaysia because it has vast rubber resources produced at a much cheaper price.
4.4 Traditional Medical Practitioners
4.4.1 The Committee learnt through Mr. Ndoro that the
Department of Traditional Medicines (TM) and Traditional Medical
Practitioners Council (TMPC) is a department under the Ministry of
Health and Child Care which was formed in line with the Alma Ata Declaration made by the World Health Organisation. He also pointed out the fact that traditional medicine is a key pillar of the health care delivery system. The Ministry of Health and Child Care has a
Directorate responsible for;
- Policy formulation such as practice of traditional medicine;
- Providing regulatory legislation, registration of traditional medicine;
- Conservation of traditional medicine and commercialisation of evidence based medicine.
The directorate collaborates with other Government departments.
The Traditional Medical Practitioners Council;
- regulates the practice of traditional medicine;
- licences traditional medicines and traditional medical practitioners; and
- standardises the traditional medicines and practitioners.
- The Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe (MCAZ) is mandated to regulate medicines including traditional medicines in the country. The Medical Research Council of Zimbabwe provides oversight in terms of research and coordinates research in terms of traditional medicines. The council has a Committee on traditional and contemporary medicines which coordinates research in the medicine types. The Committee was informed of policy gaps which exist such that there has been resistance by certain religious and cultural groups on the uptake of some traditional medicines and the Ministry of Health is working towards addressing these issues.
- The Ministry of Health and Child Welfare pointed out that through the TMPC, it ensures that it has 100 % institutional deliveries so as to reduce maternal and neo natal deaths through improvement of global health and increased involvement of Traditional Birth Attendants.
In the event of complications during child birth such as uterus rupture, birth fistula among others, the TMPC encourages referrals to conventional clinics and clinicians and specialist doctors due to the fact that Traditional Birth Attendants do not have the capacity to attend to such complications. The Traditional Medicines programmes aim at capacitating Traditional Birth Attendants so as to enable them to recognise danger signs during pregnancy and labour and to prioritise referrals to conventional clinicians should complications arise. Mr. Ndoro informed the Committee that in Chipinge district, most mothers use traditional medicines to prepare for child birth. Therefore, the TMPC has put in place various interventions which include promoting the role of the Traditional Birth Attendants and Village Health Workers. It was identified that there are no clear incentives for Community Health Workers. The council emphasised to the Committee that it has encouraged dialogue through the engagement of Traditional Medical Practitioners and users of the traditional medicines.
- The Traditional Medical Practitioners Council informed members of the Committee that it educates mothers about exclusive breast-feeding so as to curb the rate of infant mortality and also encourages mothers on the need to breastfeed babies up to six months before the introduction of solid foods as some cultural practices allow the introduction of solids before the recommended time. Some religious beliefs such as the apostolic sect discourage the use of modern medicine such that they prohibit the immunisation of their children.
- The Committee noted that global trends have shown that non-communicable diseases are on the rise. The council, therefore focuses on identification, early detection, treatment, support and follow up of clients and monitoring of treatment compliance. The council has various working groups under the National AIDS Council (NAC) that deal with non-communicable diseases.
- Traditional medical practitioners’ pivotal role in treating and managing mentally challenged people was also articulated and ensure their conditions do not become worse through review of treatment needs. 4.7 The School of Pharmacy at the University of Zimbabwe and Harare Institute of Technology work with the council in investigating claims on traditional medicines from the council through research. The Traditional Medical Practitioners Council has been lobbying for the inclusion of traditional medicines into the curricular of tertiary institutions. The Ministry of Health, through Mr. Ndoro, pointed to the Committee that it is resource constrained, therefore, very few resources go towards the development of skills and research of traditional medicines. The Word Health Organisation (WHO) and the African Union have developed research guidelines on traditional medicines which the council has been using. There is need to come up with a framework which Traditional Medical Practitioners are comfortable to adopt and use.
4.7.8 The council informed the Committee that it has been difficult to stop the smuggling of indigenous trees and traditional medicines into
and out of hospitals and out of the country.4
4.5 VISIT TO MUREHWA DISTRICT HOSPITAL
- Provision of primary health care services
Dr. Kahoba highlighted to the Committee that Murehwa District Hospital covers 6 000 sq. kilometres, 30 administrative wards, 26 health facilities with a population of 210 000 where 31 000 are between 0-4 years and 51 000 are 5-14 and the rest above 15yrs. He also said that the hospital has an expectation of 3 500 pregnancies per annum. The district has one government hospital and two mission hospitals, seven government clinics, 17 rural council clinics, one mission clinic and one private clinic. The Committee learnt of statistics of morbidity due to various ailments which include pneumonia, bacterial, TB, meningitis and cardio vascular diseases are as follows; 2013 – 9 477, 2014 – 16
176, 2015 – 11 169 and 2016 – 6 242 patients. Maternal total live births 2013 – 2 103, 2014 – 1 245, 2015 – 1 213 and 2016 – 1 321. Still births decreased due to the increase in trained midwives where Musami Hospital has 15, Nhowe Mission Hospital 9 and Murehwa Hospital 19.
Caesareans are currently at 12.9%.
- Prevalence and impact of non-communicable and communicable diseases
Dr. Kahoba alluded to the fact that diabetes and BP are on the increase due to poor diets. Cancer is also on the increase but the hospital is able to do screening with the assistance of three nurses and one trained doctor. Patients are then referred to Parirenyatwa Hospital. The prevailing and sad scenario was also confirmed to the Committee that HIV/AIDS and STIs infections are on the increase in the district but patients are benefitting from ART therapy as well as initiation. Biopsies for cancer screening are underway and as such, three patients were examined on breast cancer and referred to Parirenyatwa for further treatment.
- Combating outbreaks of recurrent diseases
He also said that the district last had a cholera outbreak five years ago. The index case was in Harare and its treatment is through an isolation ward. The Committee was informed that the communities in the district have been sensitised to be on the look-out for outbreaks of recurrent diseases.
- Reducing mortality rates and improving maternal health care
Dr. Kahoba also informed the Committee that midwives have been decentralised nationally and this has seen their presence in frontline clinics. That in cases of maternal emergencies at rural health centres, an ambulance is available for transfer to highway centres. In areas where there is no midwife, there is a trained nurse. Follow up programmes are now in existence for under-fives. The Committee further learnt of the Health Development Fund Programme which has seen the refurbishment of maternal clinics and which seeks to identify gaps in service delivery pertaining to maternal health. The fact that most neo-natal deaths are due to pre-term underweight babies was reiterated.
4.6 VISIT TO MARONDERA PROVINCIAL HOSPITAL
- 6. 1 Provision of primary health care services
The presence of trained rural health workers has assisted the province in terms of primary health care services and rural health centres are near the communities. The province has been involved in pre-malaria testing, distribution of mosquito nets, immunisations and outreach facilities, malnutrition follow ups, growth monitoring by village health workers, testing of the quality of water and provision of blair toilets.
4.6.2 Prevalence and impact of non-communicable and communicable diseases
Diabetic patients are receiving glucometers for individual testing. The hospital has a demonstration nutrition garden for diabetics and also imparting that education to the communities.
4.6.3 Reducing mortality rates and improving maternal health care
The hospital carries out maternal audits. There is a limited number of anesthetists and the training is limited at national level. The hospital has an obstetrician and gynecologist to assist in maternity ward and equip skills to the nurses and this has led to a decrease in maternal deaths.
4.6.4 Nutrition
The general focus has mainly been on wasting rather stunting, thus more work needs to be done in that area. The under-fives and pregnant mothers do not pay because the hospital has a subsidy payment towards that area. The hospital does not have a nutritionist but a Food Services
Supervisor who is equal to a dietitian.6
5.0 COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS
5.1 During the fact finding visit to Murehwa hospital, through
Dr. Kahoba, the Committee observed that Village Health Workers
(VHW) play a pivotal role in primary health care service provision.
5.2 The Committee observed that diabetes cases are constantly on the rise as alluded to by Dr. Kahoba during the Committee’s factfinding visit to Murehwa hospital.
5.3 The Committee observed that although Murehwa District Hospital received a donation of an x- ray machine from the Chinese, it has not been installed for functionality.
5.4 During Murehwa hospital tour, the Committee observed through Dr. Kahoba, that information on rape victims especially the under-age is not accessible although rape kits, a doctor and focal persons manning the department are in existence.
5.5 During the Committee’s tour of Murehwa and Marondera hospital, the Committee observed that heavy donor dependence was positively affecting health institutions but negatively affecting the government’s future plans of funding health institutions.
5.6 The Committee noted that the procurement of equipment in the health sector is at national level and the Global Fund and has led to purchase of inappropriate equipment in the district and provincial hospitals, a fact reiterated by both doctors of Murehwa and Marondera hospital. This indicates that there is no consultation between the hospitals, the Ministry of Health and the development partners in terms of procuring equipment.
5.7 During the oral evidence session with Natpharm, the
Committee observed Natpharm’s aspiration to monopolise the procurement of all medicines and eliminating competition from other organisations.
5.8 From the Committee’s enquiry with Natpharm, the Committee noted that most donors target resources and drugs to the peripherals.
5.9 Through Mr. Mtombeni, the Committee noted that Natpharm is owed US$27 million by the Government and is, therefore, heavily relying on donors.
6 RECOMMENDATIONS
|
Resolution | Action | Timeline |
6.1 | Village Health Workers should be sufficiently remunerated.
|
There is a need for the
Government of Zimbabwe to compliment the work being done by VHW through topping up their allowances in terms of budgetary allocation. |
By July 2017
|
6.2 | The Government should continue sensitization of the public about diabetes.
|
The Government of Zimbabwe through the Ministry of Health and Child Care should engage in sensitisation programmes to the public about diabetes. | By August 2017 |
6.3 | The Ministry of Health and Child Care should ensure the installation of the x- ray machines in district and provincial hospitals. | The Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Health should release funds for the installation of x ray machines in provincial and district hospitals to avoid referrals and congestion to and in areas as further as Harare. The Ministry of Health should also engage domestic development partners to assist in funding. | By July 2017 |
6.4 | The police and the hospitals should work together to curb the escalation of rape cases through sharing of information. | There is need for the police and the hospital to complement each other in terms of access to information about rape and rape kits. | By June 2017 |
6.5 | The need for the
Government of Zimbabwe to prioritize funding for the health sector. |
There is need for the Ministry of Health to actively lobby for lump sums in terms of budgetary allocation and the Ministry of Health should also shift focus and engage domestic development partners who fund the health sector and desist from heavy reliance on foreign donors. Further, new proposed taxes such as taxing of airtime should be channelled towards revamping the health sector. | By July 2017
|
6.6 | There is need for the
Ministry of Health and Child Care to consult |
The Ministry of Health and Child Care at national level should consult the users of | Continously when
there is need for procurement |
provincial and district hospitals when procuring equipment through the tender system. | equipment (local clinics and hospitals) to suit their needs. The hospitals and clinics should state their own prescriptive with use of tenders, guidance and authorisation from the Head Office. |
|
|
6.7 | The Government should
prioritize the efficient and timeously procurement of drugs.
|
The Committee recommends Government to supply the central and provincial hospitals with drugs. The Committee further notes that the Ministry of Health and Child Care should deploy qualified personnel to ensure disbursement of drugs to avoid expiry. | With immediate effect |
6.8 | The Government should recapitalize health institutions in dire need of capital and facilitate Public Private Partnerships. | Government should reimburse Natpharm its money to allow it to recapitalise its operations which are currently supported 85% by donor and 15% from the Strategic Business Unit. The Committee further notes that heavy donor dependence is an unhealthy situation for, should the donors withdraw, the company risks collapsing.
|
By August 2017 |
I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to second the motion tabled by my
Chairperson from the Committee on the Sustainable Development
Goals. Madam President, I will not attempt to regurgitate what my Chairperson shared with the House. Moreso, as he said, Members will have the privilege to get the copies of the report.
However, Madam President, we came to learn that a lot of non communicable diseases are now on the rise and are taking more people more than the well known HIV and AIDS. It has been observed that Government should attempt to put efforts and measures to make awareness campaigns in the community so that people may know these diseases before they take life.
Diseases like high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, to name a few, are taking people day in day out in the rural set ups. Personally, I have come to witness that people do not know the symptoms of high blood pressure if it is attacking someone hence they hypothetically conclude to say that it is witchcraft. In most cases, people who die of high blood pressure do not show many signs besides just failing to breathe and releasing a lot of mucus and saliva. Vanhu vanobva vati arohwa nezvishiri.
People are dying every day and many people prescribed lines of tablets to take, they stop along the way. Mostly, those that are given two lines prefer to take one line and ignore the other; hence the attack at any time. The Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Health shared that Government should embark on putting early warning systems on such diseases. He also highlighted that Government is flying a journal which I think is only centered in towns because journals can only be accessed by people in towns and those that are on electronic media. We need to find other measures that we can put in place to make sure that the rural folk will also access this information and be aware of these diseases.
On nutrition, I have come to realise why my fellow Senator is very passionate on nutrition and she got herself a very good nickname. As we were given the information on nutrition, I was so shocked to learn that the effects of poor diet and nutrition in the first 1000 days are irreversible, hence there is high need Madam President, for families and households to know the best diet for a child in the first 1000 days. We have witnessed Madam President, a lot of stunted children, however, I am not an example of such, I am just short because of the genealogy of my family. We have witnessed a lot of stunted growth, a lot of stunting in children, a lot of wasting, consequentially leading to loss of life. The effects of non-good diet on children has got very detrimental effects.
Most effects that we call dull conclusively in schools might not be actually dull but they became dull because of failing to get good diet during the first one thousand days. There is high need to educate both men and women, not only pregnant women, to know the best diet a child should be given in the first one thousand days. People think children that develop kwashiorkor and other diseases are products of poor families that do not have food, I beg to differ Madam President. It is an issue of not knowing when to eat what. Some families in the rural set up have got all what is required to feed their children, but the fact that they do not know when to give their child what results in them feeding them with the same line of food, hence the children develop kwashiorkor and a lot of other diseases caused by lack of nutritional diet.
Madam President, some children that fail to get the proper diet at child age develop a lot of dullness in participation. They develop a lot of dullness in associating with others. Once they develop such, that means that family is perpetuated in poverty because consequently, they will not get good employment and they will remain poor. If they remain poor, they will bear and perpetuate a lineage of poor people, hence the high need to listen to Hon. Sen. Khumalo when she sings about
nutrition.
Madam President, I would like to acknowledge Government for accepting and giving a directorship to a department of traditional medicines. It has been an issue that was lagging behind in our country, whereby we failed to recognise what we grew up using. Now that the directorship is there and we have people that mann the department, Mr. President, I would like to encourage the department to tirelessly put stringent measures to make sure that they control their department because within that department is where we find a lot of fake certificates on traditional healers, a lot of tsikamutandas that have got fake certificates from the same departments.
Mr. President, I would like to encourage the Ministry to make sure that the directorate of that department puts security measures so that it is not infested by non-deserving healers who are unscrupulously cheating and stealing from the communities. It is unfortunate, as traditional leaders, we have been blamed for associating with those people, but those people have got certificates from the same Government departments with all features that are deemed to be authentic. It is not a blame on the traditional leaders but on the authorities, that they should make sure that they give only the deserving and not to anyone. Mr. President, I had the privilege to be part of the group that went to Marondera and Murehwa Hospitals and I will not touch a lot on what I saw there, except for one or two that touched me most.
Mr. President, the centralised procurement system of Government is somehow working on the negative to the hospitals. I say so because we realised on our tours that it is either the central purchasing department will buy a wrong machine or equipment altogether or if it buys something, it buys either a very sophisticated machine which has got no one to install or it buys a machine which has got no one to operate in the country. On our visits, we realised that there was an Xray machine which was lying idle for more than ten years, accumulating dust in a hospital. Patients are being turned away when we have got a very highly sophisticated machine which is not being used, just for nonfailure to get someone to install it. I wonder what cost more, to buy it or
to install it.
Mr. President, we also realised that in Murehwa, the hospital had stopped giving out linen to patients because they do not have a washing machine. The hospital is now hiring out people to do its laundry and that obviously comes at a fee. Within the same institution, there was a washing machine that was there also accumulating dust because Government is only failing to install the same machine. The reasons that were given were that no one is able to install it. Those are the reasons that we got as damning as they are. Mr. President, I would urge Government to make sure that, as much as we centralise the procurement system, we can, at least abide by the priorities of the concerned hospitals. It would be better because you will be buying things that they want and that are of priority to them than to buy, receive and send out before acknowledging first what is on their priority list.
Mr. President, I noted that within hospitals, there is an issue of laxity whereby there is no interactive action. No interactive communication in the sense that when you got to the nurse, some drugs were said to be out of stock but when you go to the pharmacies, they had those tablets in stock. So, such a disparity shows that there is no communication in the same house. I would urge the Government to make sure that they come up with a template way of communicating on such issues because patients were being turned away and we do not know how many died after that – when the drug was there expiring in the pharmacy.
Another issue that I noted Mr. President, is that hospitals are working understaffed. As understaffed as they are, they have opted to make sure that they pull and develop a system that they call locum. That locum system is whereby nurses are allowed to go for overtime. Instead of going on leave, they apply to go and work and they get paid. But, I would fail to make an economic sense in this because we have a lot of nurses who were trained but are failing to get into the system. The issue of money here is being ruled out because these same nurses that are within the system are already going on overtime and getting paid. In most cases, at the end of every month, the overtime locum pay is more than their monthly salary. So, I fail to make an economic sense out of that. Why do we not employ nurses that are outside there so that they can also get employment, feed their children and other beneficiaries –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
Moreso Mr. President, if we employ new staff, because money is already there, we are assured of getting the best quality service from those people. It is common knowledge that if one has pulled for a long time, he will not give the best of his ability. These people are not there to work because they want, but they are there because they have seen it as a money-making gimmick. So, they are on duty but very tired and as such, they will not give the best of their expertise. Government should consider making sure that they abide by the working days of the nurses and employ more staff to make sure that they fill the gap – equivalent to the money that they are giving to the nurses that are doing locum. Mr. President, I think that I have tried to make an attempt to shorten the gaps and fill up on what my Chairperson had presented. So, let me leave some for other Members of the Committee. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF
STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move the motion standing in my name:
That this House;
RECALLING ongoing efforts of the African Union to move towards the adoption of a Draft “Protocol to the African Charter on
Human and Peoples’ Rights on the Right to Nationality and the
Eradication of Stateless in Africa;
TAKING NOTE of the conclusions and Recommendations on statelessness adopted by the SADC “Technical Migration Dialogue for Southern Africa Addressing Mixed Migration in Southern Africa:
Linking Protection, Immigration, Border Management and Labour
Migration, Gaborone, Botswana from 16-18 August 2016”;
ACKNOWLEDGING the Conclusions of the “Conference on
Ensuring Everyone’s Right to Nationality: The Role of Parliaments in
Preventing and Ending Statelessness, co-organised by the Parliament of South Africa, the inter Parliamentary Union and the Office of the United
Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, from 26 to 27 November
2015”;
RECOGNISING the requirement by the Sustainable Development
Goals (SDGs) endorsed by the UN General Assembly on 25 September
2015, in particular SDG target 16,9 to provide by 2030 legal identity for all, including birth registration;
FURTHER RECOGNISING the numerous formal pledges of SADC Member States to accede to the 1954 UN Convection relating to the Status of Stateless Persons and the 1961 UN Convention on the
Reduction of Statelessness and the Recommendations from the Human Rights Council’s Universal Periodic Review to the same effect;
COGNISANT that the Zimbabwe National Constitution provides for Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms incorporating the right of children to a name and provision of identity documents;
NOW THEREFORE calls upon the Government to:
- i) resolve any existing situations of statelessness within our own country; ii) review the legislative frameworks and administrative practices in nationality matters with a view to ensure their consistency with the Zimbabwe Constitution and International standards on the prevention and resolution of statelessness, as well as on protection of stateless persons; iii) initiate legislative reforms which address any identified gaps or challenges, including any discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or gender, thereby helping to prevent statelessness; iv) ensure gender equality as regards the equal right of men and women to pass on their nationality to their children and spouses and to change or retain their nationality.
- expedite the implementation of Article 6(4) of the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, thereby preventing childhood statelessness;
- establish and maintain comprehensive birth registration and civil registration systems within Zimbabwe with a view to prevent statelessness; vii) accede to the 1954 UN Convention relating to the status of Stateless Persons, the 1961 UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness and the 1990 UN Convention on the rights of all migrant workers and members of their families.
(vii) support the drafting, adoption and ratification of a Protocol to the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights on the Right to Nationality and the Eradication of Statelessness in Africa.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President for affording
me an opportunity to speak on this motion. What is statelessness? A stateless person is someone who is not considered as a national by any State under the operation of its law. A person becomes stateless, for example if they lose citizenship of one country without having acquired any alternative citizenship. Such a person Mr. President, will not have any nationality under the laws of any State.
Here, nationality refers to the legal bond between a person and a State. This legal bond in the Constitution of Zimbabwe is established under Section 35.1 of the Constitution which stipulates citizenship by birth, descent or registration. Mr. President, Sections 36 and 45 of the Zimbabwe Constitution say, it is of essence that the State fulfills its constitutional mandate through elaborating national laws in compliance with constitutional provisions that provide for the establishment of statehood and guarantee of nationality through laws that promote ready access to national registration and documentation.
Mr. President, the 1961 Convention is the leading international instrument that sets rules for conferral and non-withdrawal of citizenship to prevent cases of statelessness from arising. By setting out rules to limit the occurrence of statelessness, the Convention gives effect to Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which recognises that everyone has the right to a nationality. Why is it that Zimbabwe should ratify the 1961 Convention on the reduction of statelessness? The adoption of the 1961 Convention on the reduction of statelessness will contribute to the balancing of the rights of individuals with the interests of States by setting out general rules for the prevention of statelessness and simultaneously allowing some exceptions to those rules. By adopting the 1961 Convention that prevents statelessness, States contribute to the reduction of statelessness over time. This means that Zimbabwe can foster the progressive realisation of registration of all persons within the country avoiding statelessness.
Mr. President, Zimbabwe is a State party to the 1954 Convention relating to the status of stateless persons and the 1961 Convention complements this Convention. The 1961 Convention guides States with rules for the conferring, granting and non-withdrawal of citizenship to prevent the occurrence of statelessness. It sets out rules to limit the occurrence of statelessness and gives effect to Article 15 of the
Universal Declaration.
Failure to ratify Mr. President, the 1961 Convention to the reduction of statelessness reflects negatively on the Government of
Zimbabwe’s failure to fulfill its citizens’ social, economic, civil and political rights. The failure by the Government of Zimbabwe to fulfill the basic right of granting statehood to its people is of paramount importance towards wholesome development. Mr. President, in my research on this motion that I moved, I was shocked during my research to find out that we have over 10 500 refugees who are at Tongogara
Camp east of Harare. These are from DRC mostly and DRC has 8 100, Burundi has over 700, Rwanda has 700 and Mozambique over 700 as well. So, there is a school at this camp as well but mostly now, it is crowded and some are actually having to learn from underneath trees. There is a lot Mr. President, such as malnutrition and believe me, there are so many children at this camp. The issue of birth certificates and identification cards is really an issue.
The Citizenship Act should also be aligned to the Constitution. The
Constitution is very clear that if you are born in Zimbabwe you are now
a Zimbabwean. So, the issue of registration should not be an issue but we have also in Zimbabwe a lot of aliens. I remember the Government introduced an issue to say that aliens should renounce their citizenship but because it is done in Harare I have, especially in Zvishavane, been approached by a number of people who say they do not have money to come to Harare and they do not have Identification certificates. Some of these people who are called aliens have passports but when they went to try and renew their passports, they were told no, you are not Zimbabwean which had actually caused a lot of problems to many people. I think the Registrar General’s Office should look at this problem and possibly try to make sure that all districts deal with these issues of identification certificates so that everyone can get one.
Mr. President, it is paramount to note that various rights are infringed when pertinent issues such as birth registration are not addressed. These include issues such as the right to an identity. Stateless people are not able to get relevant documents such as identification certificates like I said. Children are not able to obtain birth certificates and according to the Constitution, this should be easy like I previously said. In addition Mr. President, the right to vote and to be voted into office, under Zimbabwean law, Section 67 of the Constitution, only citizens can stand for election and be voted into office by other citizens.
Right to access to information held by the State; the Constitution provides that citizens or permanent residents can access information held by the State; social and economic rights enjoyed by citizens in Zimbabwe; the right to basic State funded education and the right to access basic health care services. I can go on and on, on this issue of statelessness but surely it really needs to be addressed because we really have – when I was researching on this motion, at Tongogara they are actually suspecting that this year the number of refugees might go up to at least 15 000. You can imagine they have children and mostly when these refugees come to Zimbabwe, they have many children who do not have identification. So, these are issues that we should look at and the
Registrar General’s Office should look at it closely and take the issue of statelessness very seriously. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to second the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Timveos. Statelessness is widely seen to have a devastating human impact. It undermines a person’s dignity and often deprives him or her of economic, social, cultural, civil and political human rights. Access to education, health care and the labour market may be denied. The resulting marginalisation may even adversely affect social and economic development of the society as a whole. The deprivation therefore becomes a violation of basic human rights.
Mr. President, up to date, statelessness has not yet received the attention it deserves. Estimates indicate that throughout the world, there are about 10 million stateless people. Individuals, women and children are particularly exposed to the risks of statelessness. This is why the Gukurahundi issue has remained emotive and the more we need to be sober in discussing this post independence unfortunate period.
In Southern Africa, individuals who are statelessness or are at risk of statelessness can be found in their countries of origin and in migratory contexts. In the region, various specific causes may lead to statelessness. These include modernisation and transformation processes, understaffed and underfunded public administrations, shortcomings in birth registration and documentation; disintegration of traditional family bonds; discrimination on the basis of gender or other criteria; and last but not least, the multigenerational movement of migratory workers who have often lost ties to their ancestors’ country of origin.
Mr. President, the SADC Member States have already acceded to various universal and regional human rights instruments that enshrine the individual right to a nationality. Among these instruments is, for instance, the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, which protects every child’s right to acquire a nationality.
However, law and practice in the SADC Member States are not yet in full compliance with international standards regarding the prevention and reduction of statelessness. Mr. President, in some countries, sexual discrimination in nationality laws denied women the right to pass on their nationality under the same conditions as men. Children of foreign descent, for example children from migrant workers often suffer marginalisation. Birth registration practices are not comprehensive or they discriminate between children born to own nationals and children born to nationals of other SADC Member States. In some areas, members of ethnic minorities remain excluded from nationality.
Mr. President, these gaps in the protection of human beings against the risk of statelessness has recently been addressed in several international frameworks. In 2014, the international community agreed upon a global action plan to end statelessness and called upon the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees to implement this plan by
- With a view to prevent statelessness, the Sustainable Development Goals adopted by the UN General Assembly in September 2015 include the target “to provide legal identity for all including birth registration”.
Mr. President, without a birth certificate one cannot claim nationality.
The World Humanitarian Summit in Istanbul in May 2016 confirmed the global commitment of all states to end statelessness.
Among parliamentary activities, the most noteworthy has been the ‘ Conference on Ensuring Everyone’s Right to Nationality: The Role of
Parliaments in Preventing and Ending Statelessness’ in Cape Town in November, 2015. Members of the National Parliaments of Angola, Malawi, Mozambique, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe participated in this global conference and called upon regional parliamentary assemblies to contribute to the prevention of statelessness and the better protection of persons at risk of statelessness.
On the SADC level, statelessness is discussed by the Migration
Dialogue for Southern Africa (MIDSA). At the “MIDSA Technical
Workshop on Addressing Mixed Migration in Southern Africa: Linking
Protection, Immigration, Border Management and Labour Migration” held in Gaborone August 2016, SADC Member States concretized their recommendations on the prevention of statelessness in the SADC region.
Recently, the ECOWAS Member States intensified their efforts to prevent statelessness. A comparative look at their activities may be informative; with the “Abidjan Declaration on Eradication of
Statelessness” of February 2015, the ECOWAS Ministers of Justice and Interior committed to prevent statelessness in migratory contexts, to resolve situations of statelessness in non-migratory contexts, to identify stateless persons, to better protect stateless persons, to create strategies and partnerships and to initiate concrete legislative and administrative reforms to reduce and prevent statelessness. Within the first year after the adoption of the Abidjan Declaration, 22 000 persons acquired identity documents and or late birth certificates and five countries have either recently acceded to the Statelessness Conventions or are in the process of doing so. These are progressive steps which Zimbabwe should embrace.
Mr. President, the Zimbabwean Constitution has a comprehensive Bill of Rights and a specific section (Section 81) to deal with the Rights of Children and in particular every child has a right to be given a name and a family name. The spectrum of right also covers the provision of a birth certificate to ensure that children born in Zimbabwe are entitled to citizenship.
Section 36, the right to citizenship extends to any child found in Zimbabwe who is or appears to be 15 years of age and whose nationality or parents are not known is presumed to be a Zimbabwean citizen by birth. This provision is meant to guard against statelessness.
The Zimbabwean Government must be proactive in making sure that all the pieces of domestic legislation are in conformity with the Zimbabwean Constitution as well as the relevant international instruments which must be acceded to.
The office of the Registrar-General must be flexible and make it easy for people to obtain identity documents and remove unnecessary red tape and bureaucracy which makes it difficult to obtain identity documents.
The offices must also be decentralized to make it easy and inexpensive for children to obtain identity documents.
Procedures must be accessible for children born in Zimbabwe or refugees or other displaced persons to acquire relevant documents and prevent them from being rendered stateless.
Parliamentarians, as representatives of the people should urge the Executive to keep track of developments in other regions regarding the eradication of statelessness.
The Issue of Citizenship and Statelessness
Mr. President, given the above, it goes without saying that the issue of citizenship is a very important matter, regardless of the nationality. Without the need of exploring jurisprudence, it is essential to note that the holding of national citizenship is a universally guaranteed right.
When one is recognised as a citizen, it provides the individual with various benefits such as the right to register and vote in elections, the rights to unrestricted entry and stay in a country, access to health services and so on. The aforesaid can be classified as socio-economic human rights.
It is worth noting the positive steps made towards reducing statelessness in Zimbabwe.
Dual Citizenship
The right to dual citizenship is only for citizens by birth thus citizens by registration or descent are precluded by the provisions of Section 42 (e) of the Constitution from dual citizenship.
The Constitutional Court in the case of Mutumwa Dziva Mawere vs. The Registrar General & 3ORS CCZ 4/15 which brief facts are as follows, the Applicant (Mawere), a Zimbabwean citizen by birth sought a declaratur that, being a citizen by birth, he was entitled to dual citizenship and that the law did not require of him to renounce his foreign citizenship before he could be issued with a Zimbabwean national identity document. The Registrar General contented that the Applicant could not be issued with a Zimbabwean national identity document without first renouncing his South African citizenship.
The Court in this matter granted the Application thereby confirming the constitutional recognition of dual citizenship under Zimbabwean law. Thus any person who is a Zimbabwean citizen by birth is entitled to dual citizenship. The law does not require anyone to first renounce their foreign citizenship before they can exercise their
Zimbabwean citizenship. This is a positive development Mr. President.
The Constitutional Court re-enforced the position stated in the
Mawere Case, in the case of Farai Daniel Madzimbamuto vs. The Registrar General & 3 ORS CCZ 114/13 whose brief facts are as follows, the Applicant (Madzimbamuto) was a citizen of Zimbabwe by birth. One of his parents was Zimbabwean by birth while the other was
South African. He left Zimbabwe for the United Kingdom on a
Zimbabwean passport in order to take up employment in that country.
On expiry of his passport, he attempted to get a new one through the Zimbabwean Embassy in London but was referred to Harare because the Embassy no longer had the capacity to issue passports.
The Applicant returned home briefly but due to the chaotic situation and long queues then prevailing at the passport office, failed to submit an application for a passport. He returned to the United Kingdom where he was able to obtain a South African passport by virtue of his mother’s birth in South Africa. When the Applicant returned to Zimbabwe permanently in 2012, he presented his South African passport to Immigration Officials who treated him as an alien because of his
South African passport, even though there was evidence that he was a Zimbabwean citizen. The authorities restricted his stay in Zimbabwe to a specific period.
Mr. President, it is important to note that the Constitutional Court held as follows:
“A Zimbabwean citizen by birth does not lose his or her citizenship on acquiring a foreign citizenship. He or she is entitled to hold foreign citizenship and a foreign passport. Indeed, the Constitution has made it clear that Zimbabwe citizenship by birth cannot be lost except if the citizenship was acquired by fraud, false representation or concealment of a material fact by any person”.
Mr. President, the court further stated that:
“A purposive interpretation of this conferred in Section 66 (Freedom of Movement) read into the Applicant’s entitlement to dual citizenship is that the Applicant’s right to enter, remain and leave Zimbabwe cannot be restricted even when he presents or travels again on a foreign passport.”
From the above, it is therefore unlawful for the Immigration Officials to ask Zimbabwean citizens entering the country (including those doing so holding a second passport) how long they intend to stay in Zimbabwe and endorsing a date by which they should leave the country. It must also be noted that the information which appears on the inside of the cover of the Zimbabwean passport as well as the information on the Registrar-General’s website to the effect that dual citizenship is prohibited is not only misleading but ultra vires the Constitution and same should be disregarded as the matter has been settled by the Constitutional Court. I hope we will all go and check in our passports as we go home today.
Law Reforms
Mr. President, the need for law reforms cannot be taken lightly. In line with the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the child, to which all Southern African States are parties, the Zimbabwean Constitution and nationality laws, especially the Citizenship of Zimbabwe Act (Chapter 4:01) should provide for an explicit and unqualified right of a nationality from birth for all children born on their territory who would otherwise be stateless.
The law should provide that a young child found in the territory of the State shall, in the absence of proof be considered to have been born within the territory of parents possessing the nationality of Zimbabwe.
The Zimbabwean law should facilitate the naturalisation of stateless persons, relaxing the rules applied to them.
Mr. President, the law should protect against arbitrary denial and deprivation of nationality providing for due process protections ,including the rights to seize a court in relation to any administrative decision on nationality, providing limited grounds for loss or deprivation of nationality that protect against statelessness.
Mr. President, birth registration and identity documentation have already been mentioned by the mover. Acquisition of birth registration and identity documentation should not be a nightmare in any given country. States should take all measures to ensure that all children born in the country are registered at birth without discrimination, including those children born in remote areas and in disadvantaged communities as well as those in the country as refugees, stateless persons or migrants, regardless of migratory status; and that children not registered at birth can be registered later during childhood or adulthood. These measures should include for example the use of mobile birth registration units, registration free of charge and flexible systems of proof where it is not reasonable to meet the standard requirements.
Children whose births have not been registered should be allowed to access basic services such as healthcare and education while waiting to be properly registered.
In conclusion, Mr. President, States should take measures to strengthen their civil registry systems in general, in particular for the issue of identity cards ensuring that services are accessible across the entire country, staff are trained, discrimination is minimised in administrative decision-making and administrative and judicial review and appeal mechanisms are in place.
Mr. President, it is my humble submission that there is no reason whatsoever to have a person declared stateless, given the advancement in technology which can easily identify any person residing in
Zimbabwe, since the majority of cases, traditional leaders and the police do try to account for any person residing in Zimbabwe. With these words, I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11 May, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDs in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank our Chairperson, Hon. Sen. Timveos for the report that she tabled in this House where we went on tours in institutions of higher learning, colleges and universities. Mr. President, we saw a lot of things that were being talked about in these institutions. We realised that the girl student coupled by their dressing which exposes their bodies, you tend to question yourself whether they came here to get education or what. They forget where they come from and the challenges the parents went through in looking for school fees because we heard them explaining on their own, the nature of the families they come from – poor families. We said to them, your family might be poor but they made sure you came to university.
Mr. President, the girl children have become promiscuous. They no longer value their bodies or recall what the Bible says that your body is the temple of the Lord. They are not worried about the diseases. Mr. President, we went to Mkoba, Lupane, MSU and other institutions, and came across students who said they end up having affairs with the lecturers instead of the lecturers teaching them to finish their courses. They end up engaging in affairs so that they get better grades for them to pass their degrees. That is a challenge that needs to be considered by us and the Government because lecturers are taking advantage of the girl child who needs to pass.
Most importantly, it seems the girl child has gone out of their minds. The men who were there are focussed and are hoping to get better jobs and look after their families. The girl students do not value themselves and have no focus and do not care about themselves. We hope the Almighty will intervene. I was touched by that issue because I also have girl children. I have aspirations and hopes that my children go to university but I said to my child, I am busy looking for a place for you to do a teaching degree but it pains me because you are going there to be promiscuous.
These children are not concerned about the diseases that are there. All they think of is the money that they will get from the people. They do not care whether that person is infected or is on ARVs. They do not care whether they can get access to the ARVs. Their request was that as MPs, please find us condoms that are of high grade and value because the ones they are using are not of good quality.
It pained me and I am hoping that the report that was tabled by the
Chairperson that was carefully written and is accurate, will enable the Government and us to unite and see how we can raise awareness in our children so that they understand why they go to school. If they are already infected with HIV and AIDS, they end up passing on the pandemic to those who are learned but, the students that we saw in the institutions seem to be all positive and we hope that God will intervene. We want to thank the tour that we embarked on. We went as a
Committee and we worked together as a team but the challenge is that our children have become promiscuous in these institutions of higher learning. Thank you for the opportunity that you have given me.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2017.
An Hon. Member having moved for the adjournment of the Senate; the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs walked into the House.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (SEN.
TAWENGWA): I welcome the Vice President.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. President Sir, I seek leave of the august House to revert back to Order of the Day Number 1, that it be disposed of.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Mr. President, we objecte
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: It is
only one objection.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Do you want us to divide the House?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We are
not going to divide the House because I have asked if there are any objections and it was only yourself – why?
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDMENT (EASE OF SETTLING
COMMERCIAL AND OTYHER DISPUTES) BILL [H.B. 4A, 2016]
First Order read: Second Reading: Judicial Laws Amendment
(Ease of Settling Commercial and Other Disputes) Bill [H.B. 4A, 2016] THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. President, our Government remains committed to removing the difficulties involved in doing business in Zimbabwe. The desired growth in the economy and investment would be sustained if we have an enabling environment. Rigorous business hurdles for setting up and running a business, limited access to credit, limited legal enforcement of business contracts are just but to mention a few challenges we face in Zimbabwe and across Africa. The ease of doing business project is centred on how as a nation we can improve our commercial laws and regulations as well as their enforcement so that we improve economically in the region. Its objective is to eliminate the unnecessary cost and other policy inconsistencies affecting business. Business regulation and enforcement plays a pivotal role in the fulfilling of ZIM ASSET as it contributes towards economic growth. That is why this Bill seeks to amend the High Court Act, the Magistrates’ Courts Act and the Small Claims Courts Act so that disputes of a commercial nature are dealt with expeditiously in our courts. It will expedite justice delivery and promote access to justice.
Hon. Members might be aware of our considerable efforts to get rid of stringent business regulations which hinder economic growth, causing unemployment and corruption. This also leads to delays in export time and reduces exports. Court regulations that result in delays in dispute resolution weaken the enforceability of contracts, increase corruption and are associated with inconsistency and unfairness of dispute resolution. Justice delayed is justice denied. A competent court system capable of enforcing business contracts and ensuring a smooth transfer of titles in the event of sale or purchase of property reduces the cost of doing business. Mr. President, this now brings me to the contents of the Bill before Hon. Members.
Clause 3 and 8 seek to introduce ‘virtual sittings’ in our court system. This will enable provision to be made by rules of court for
‘virtual sittings” of the Court at which all or any of the parties to a civil suit may (by mutual agreement) participate in sittings of the court by electronic means. The virtual sitting will enable court proceedings to take place especially in places where parties involved are outside the country, in hospital or have failed to attend court due to other commitments. Virtual sittings consist of the judges of the High Court or in matters heard at the Magistrates Court, magistrates, sitting in court or in chambers communicating with all parties. The communication is by the use of any electronic or other means of communication by which all the parties to the proceedings at the sitting can hear and be heard at the same time without being physically present together. Some business previously confined to the civil courts will qualify to be heard by superior judicial offices via telephone and video conferencing.
Mr. President, the parties involved in the suit must consent to the hearing of the case by means of a virtual sitting. The Bill states that the High Court rules of court for virtual sittings apply only to civil proceedings and not criminal proceedings. The Bill does acknowledge the possibility that the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act may under exceptional and specific circumstances, allow the use of virtual sittings in criminal hearings. In its current form, the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act does not make provision for virtual hearings. This will assist in speedy resolution of commercial disputes between parties electronically, without them being necessarily present in court.
Mr. President, Clauses 2 and 5 of the Bill provides for the creation of divisions in the High Court for specific purposes. The judiciary is set for reformation through specialised extensions of the High Court. This is in line with the Constitution as provided for under Section 171 (3) which stipulates that a law may be made to provide for the High Court to be divided into specialised divisions but every such division must be able to exercise the general jurisdiction of the High Court in any matter that is brought before it.
The High Court will be given some powers to create divisions through a Statutory Instrument where necessary, in this instance the Commercial Division. From time to time, the High Court may create divisions to speed resolution of disputes. This is a positive measure as it will go a long way in breaking the perception that commercial litigation in the country is frustratingly slow while the costs are far too burdensome. The amendment will assist in the fast, efficient and high quality dispute resolution of disputes and claims of a commercial nature.
Cases will be heard by judges with suitable expertise and experience.
The Chief Justice, after consultation with the Judge President, can now cause the creation of a specialised division of the High Court in accordance with Section 171 (3) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe by notice in the Government Gazette. The Chief Justice shall specify the name of the division of the High Court concerned; and define or give a statement of the scope or nature of the division’s jurisdiction and if necessary or expedient, specify the places and times at which the division shall sit. Specialised divisions of the High Court may be created to specialise in the adjudication of cases in the field of commercial law, family law, mining law, electoral law, revenue law, the law of the deceased and insolvent estates or any other specialised field of law.
Other specialised divisions will include the Fiscal Appeal Court and the Intellectual Property Tribunal. The rules of court applicable to the High Court shall apply to all divisional courts. The Judge President shall assign at least two judges of the High Court to be judges of a specialised division of the High Court for such period as the Judge
President shall specify. This is the practice in other jurisdictions such as Ireland, Tanzania and Britain just to mention a few. Cases are determined in a manner which is just expeditious and likely to minimise the costs of those proceedings.
Mr. President, Clauses 4 and 9 introduce an electronic service of litigation in Zimbabwe to enable rules to be made for such matters as the electronic service of process. These proposed amendments will apply equally to the High court as well as the Magistrates’ Court. This move will transmute the current paper-based court processes by moving towards computer-based technology. In a bid to expedite court processes, the Bill seeks to allow for:
- the service of process, for example summons and court applications by electronic means;
- the authentication of documents by electronic means, whether executed inside or outside Zimbabwe; and
- the digitalisation of the records filed or lodged with the Registrar and the conditions of access thereto or for the copying thereof for the purpose of any judicial proceedings.
Mr. President, Clause 5 of the Bill will amend the interpretation section of the Magistrates’ Court Act, Chapter 7:10 by adding definitions of business, commercial court and commercial dispute for the avoidance of doubt and the closure of any loopholes when disputes of a commercial nature arise. This will also ensure speedy conclusion of disputes as there will be no need to battle on interpretations of what constitutes a commercial dispute. This has been done for clarity.
Clause 10 of the Bill addresses the decentralisation of the Small
Claims Court. The recent decentralisation of the small claims through
Statutory Instrument 34 of 2016 has also played a significant role in making the country conducive for business. Every Magistrate Court in
Zimbabwe can now sit as a Small Claims Court. This means that Small Claims Courts are now in every province countrywide and in every district where a Magistrate Court can be found. Instead of forking out fares travelling to and from provincial towns for the small claims, upcoming business people can now walk to their nearest Magistrates’ Court for justice.
The definition of person has been extended to juristic persons to allow corporate entities to follow up on their debtors. Formally, they had no locus standi in the small claims court. Artificial personality, juridical personality or juristic personality is the characteristic of a nonliving entity regarded by law to have the status of personhood. Statutory Instrument 34 of 2016 has also increased the jurisdictions of the Small Claims Courts from $250 to $1000. This was done in order to decongest the Magistrates’ Courts in order to facilitate speedy resolution of disputes.
Mr. President, Clause 11 of the Bill seeks to afford parties in a dispute the right to legal representation in the Small Claims Court which was previously non-existent in such courts. Lawyers are now allowed to represent clients in the Small Claims Court in line with the constitutional provision as stipulated under Section 69(1). However, the tariffs should be governed by the Minister responsible and party to party costs cannot be claimed. The right to legal representation is generally regarded as a constituent of the right to a fair trial. Legal representation is an important tool or means of enforcing one’s rights. As a minimum, the right to a fair trial includes, the right to be heard within a reasonable time, the right to counsel and the right to a public hearing just to mention a few. This right is also protected under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 10), International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, ICCPR (Article 14), African Charter on Human and People’s Rights, ACHPR (Articles 3, 7, 26).
Clause 12 of the Bill seeks to shorten the period within which small claims court proceedings may be initiated for speedy conclusion.
Currently, for one to commence action in the small claims court, the plaintiff must deliver personally or through registered post, a letter of demand to respond within 14 days. If the defendant fails to respond to the claim within the 14 day period, the plaintiff must request the clerk of the Small Claims Court to issue summons which again must be responded to within the 14 day period. Hon. Members, the amendment which Clause 11 seeks to introduce has an effect of reducing the 14 day period to seven days for ease of doing business. This again is a positive move in providing speedy conclusion of disputes of commercial nature by reducing the time period of institution of actions in the Small Claims Court.
Mr. President, Hon. Members will note that this amendment Bill has addressed quite a number of issues to facilitate ease of doing business in Zimbabwe. The role of the Judiciary in dealing with insolvency and resolution of other disputes is of considerable importance. There is a significant relationship between the positive and negative between court efficiency in handling debt contracts and total credit. There is also a correlation between procedural formalism of the court system and the duration of resolution. Courts are essential for entrepreneurs because they interpret the rules of the market and protect economic rights. Efficient and transparent courts of law encourage new business relationships.
I therefore commend the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill of 2016 to the House and move that the Bill be now read a second time.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Mr. President and I also thank the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs for bring in this Bill. Indeed, a revolution – take the law to the people. This is exactly what should be done. The law is now going to the people and it is going to be less expensive. If there is a dispute, it is dealt with immediately and then we do business. I congratulate the Minister for this Bill. I support it. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I would like to thank the Hon. Vice
President Hon. Mnangagwa for bringing in this Bill. This is a good Bill.
I do not have a copy but what he has read is very ideal. It is important for disputes to be settled at courts close to the business communities. This Bill is important and I want to thank the Vice President for bringing it through. It is important for us as a nation and it is bringing services to the people. This is where devolution comes in like I said during my statelessness motion, that if people get services close to them, we find that our systems will work well. So, I would like to thank you Hon. Vice President for the Bill that you have brought.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
Thank you Hon. Timveos. This Bill is in our pigeon holes and the announcement was made yesterday by Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. I
would like to thank the Vice President for the Bill that he has brought to this august House. We hope that when you want to amend certain laws, they should be brought to us on time to enable our Government to work
well.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the Bill that has been brought by the Vice President and the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I heard him say that the Small Claims court will be operating at the Magistrates Court and will now be able to take claims of up to $1 000. I think it is important that authority be given to the traditional leaders. In rural areas, we have businesses that we do there and there is a lot of cattle rustling. If the matter is taken before the traditional chief, the Chief must be given authority to preside over such cases in line with probably two cows which are in the range of $1000. In short, it is a good Bill that enables justice to get to the people. If it is devolved to the traditional leaders, it will assist us so that at least people can access justice close to them. They do not need to get on a bus to go there. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice. I would also want to thank the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who is also the Vice President of Zimbabwe. We want to thank you so much for your humility and for coming to this august House with these Bills and enlightening us on such important matters.
I am in support of the Bill. I think it is very pertinent because these are the issues that trouble people because some people were being imprisoned for failure to attend a court session. It is because they would travel long distances to go to the urban areas far from where they stay. You have done us proud by taking the offices to where people are. Even those with disability also face the challenges to go to attend court sessions and sometimes they did not even have money to travel but now, these services have come to the people and it has made business easy.
We thank you for the ease of doing business. We thank you Mr.
President.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Hon. President of the Senate for giving me this opportunity to debate. I would also like to thank the
Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
I would like to say that in Zimbabwe today, even those who are abroad, when they find out that they are given a right to go and analyse their own situations – in the past, many people lost a lot quietly because it was too far for them to move to the towns where they could attend to their issues. This Bill will assist us as Zimbabweans and it will attract investments if we make such laws which are good for all Zimbabweans regardless of their age.
When we speak of making sure that Zimbabwe is conducive enough for people to come and do business which is the ease of doing business with such a law that has been brought by the Vice President, we look forward to an improved economy because many people will be attracted to come and do business in Zimbabwe. I would like to thank the Hon. Vice President for bringing this Bill to this House today. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Mr. President. I
stood up to thank the Vice President for the Bill that he has brought to this House. It is a challenge for us who come from rural areas. I represent the rural constituents who are poor and do not have bus fares to go to the courts. These days we use swipe machines and the rural folk do not know that and there is a problem. We thank you Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for the Bill because you have brought the courts to the people. I come from Midlands and the cases in this province exceed all the other areas. People are committing murder daily and as traditional leaders, we do not know what to do. I am sure that this Bill will assist. Even the ZRP have come to me and requested me to bring the issue before the House that there are no vehicles to take the accused and the police officers to courts.
Mr. Acting President, you have done something very good and I congratulate you for the Bill, please keep it up. You are now representing the people and those that have voted us here, I am sure they will be very happy when they hear of such a Bill. I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. May I thank all the Hon. Senators that have made contributions positively supporting the introduction of this Bill which gives power to the Judge President and the Chief Justice to create the Small Claims Court with jurisdiction up to a US$1000 in commercial and civil disputes. As Hon. Senators have said, this will now entail the possibilities of disputes of that nature being dealt with at local level rather than coming to Harare to the High Court where they were resolved in the past. Furthermore, as Hon. Sen. Masuku has said, the passing of this Bill will in turn promote the image of Zimbabwe internationally by creating an environment where commercial disputes can be resolved quickly, depending on the size of the disputes. It has been positively accepted by the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and businesses in general that the introduction of this Bill will promote the environment for running businesses and creating businesses in Zimbabwe.
We are very thankful that the august House is supporting the amendment of the Judicial Laws Bill in order to promote the ease of doing business in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Thursday, 11th May, 2017.
SECOND READING
DEEDS REGISTRY BILL [H. B. 3A, 2016]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Deeds Registry Bill [H. B.
3A, 2016].
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. President Sir, the Government of Zimbabwe remains devoted to eliminate the problems involved in doing business in Zimbabwe. The anticipated advancement in the economy and investments would be sustained if we have a favourable working environment. There are quite a number of obstacles that are involved when one wants to set up a business in Zimbabwe. After the realisation of the stagnation of business growth, the ease of doing business project was launched. As a country, we evaluated ways which we could implore in order to improve on our commercial laws and regulations and their enforcement so that we improve economically in the region.
In a world that is globalising, many transactions are not being completed electronically, thereby making it relatively unfavourable for business to be conducted only through paper records. That is why this Bill seeks to amend the Dees Registry Act so that registration of properties can be pursued electronically and an electronic database is created in order to promote economic growth both local and internationally. The effect of these changes will ensure business is promoted by the expedited registration period, electronic database thereby save both expenses and time.
Mr. President Sir, I am sure that everyone is affected by the aforementioned challenges which significantly contribute to corruption in Zimbabwe. The unavailability of electronic access to the Deeds
Registry’s Offices also contributes to the delays in export time and reduces exports. The unavailability of access to the Registry Office is of great concern as we are in an era of globalisation and digitalisation. It is fundamental to ensure that there is a smooth transfer of titles and registration of properties, thereby reducing the cost of doing business.
Mr. President Sir, at this juncture, I would like to highlight the contents of the Bill before Hon. Members.
Clause 2:
This clause seeks to amend Section 78 of the principal Act so as to restrict the execution of powers of attorney only to those witnessed and signed by a legal practitioner, notary public or justice of the peace and the signature of such legal practitioner, notary public or justice of the peace. Attestations of such powers by “competent witnesses” or commissioners of oaths will no longer be competent for Deeds Registry purposes. This new mandatory provision of having a legal practitioner, notary public or justice of peace attesting to approve of the power of attorney is due to the high increase of fraudulent transfers of immovable property based on fake powers of attorney. This new requirement will protect the public from fraudsters who intend to swindle innocent victims.
Mr. President - Clauses 3 and 4; the amendments sought by these
Clauses will permit the digitalisation of the Deeds Registry and the eventual establishment of an electronic Deeds Registry which will supplement the paper based one, thereby greatly expediting and facilitating deeds registry administration. Access to the electronic registry for the purposes of information gathering and conveyancing work or notarial practice will be subject to certain safeguards against fraud, violations of privacy and other abuses.
The Clause will not limit the Deeds Registry Office to Harare and Bulawayo only, but will allow for a decentralised electronic database. The Bill will also allow maintenance of the register to be extended to provide online services which is the new trend in business and allows users not to be physically at the Registrar’s Office, thereby saving time and promoting business in Zimbabwe. This Bill will also allow the public to inspect registers and records electronically, which are applicable for paper based public inspection. In the past an individual was required to come to the Registry in Harare or Bulawayo only to inspect records electronically wherever the individual is.
Hon. Members, will note that this Amendment Bill has addressed the core issues to facilitate ease of doing business in Zimbabwe in terms of the Registrar’s Office. The role of the registrar in expediting the registration, inspection of property and register is fundamental in promoting business in our country. It is high time that we move from paper based systems that are long winding, difficult to access and confined to a specific geographic location. We need to embrace technology and use it as a necessary tool to promote business and attract investors by eliminating obstacles that lengthen the process of registration of a company in our country.
I therefore commend the Deeds Registry Amendment Bill (H.B. 3A, 2016) to the House and move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I seek one
or two clarifications. Before I seek that clarification, I must commend the effort to improve technologically the record system. Because, it has been a nightmare to go to the registrar in order to get information. It would take you days if not weeks and you would come back and find that your request has been misplaced. The net result would be in another week or so.
What I would want to check with the Vice President is what happens to the old records? Will we go on a deliberate update of the system or we will continue to run parallel systems? I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President. I
thank the Vice President for the Bill that he has brought. When you talked about the commissioner of oaths; I need clarification that, in all our systems, do we no longer require commissioners of oaths because the legal practitioners are expensive. Last year we were told that prominent lawyers lost their licences because they had abused trust funds. It seems like there is no one who can be trusted. So, will we have solved the problem if we remove commissioners of oath such as the pastors because they all have challenges? Or, maybe I have not understood that commissioners of oath will still be there but, they will still have matters that are not within their jurisdiction. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President. Firstly, I would want to thank the Vice President for this Bill. What we applaud is the ease of doing business. Also that you have done us proud in that records should be accurate and straightforward because we find that people are lamenting everyday over properties that are fraudulently sold.
Such frauds will now be curbed.
We want to thank you again that there are papers that used to take time for business to take place but now with what you have brought before us that the electronic system will ease the challenges of doing business, it is good. I am sure because we have not read a lot in this Bill, but from what you have explained, I think that it is a good Bill.
With these few words I want to thank you.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Hon. President of the Senate, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I would like to thank the Vice President who is also the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Hon. President of the Senate, Zimbabwe though with so many learned people seemed to be behind in so many things. So often there were people who dragged our name into mud because they came into the country with briefcases pretending to be coming to do business here because what we refer to as the database was done in a way that it never ensured that it could be around forever. This Bill which was brought here by the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary A affairs, who is the Vice President, will therefore make it difficult for those with briefcases who take advantage of people. Secondly, it will ensure that those who were not paying taxes be found.
We look forward to that Hon. President of the Senate that we become part of the global village as it is said. Therefore, this Bill will ensure that Zimbabwe is put on the world map because there will not be
such cases as corruption in Zimbabwe (P) MAZIVEYI 2.mp3 since there are people who take advantage of others as they come pretending to be genuine business people. Mr. President, I do believe that even though we got it in such a short time, there are so many things that are included in this Bill because it states that there will be training that will be done. I believe that this Bill is technical and it will go a long way to protect those who would want to do business in Zimbabwe and to also avoid corruption. Hon. President, I would like to thank the Hon. Vice President for bringing this Bill.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you so much Mr. President. I was reading the NewsDay and I just want to understand from the Vice President, some journalists say that the Bill criminalises investigative journalism. They say the Bill talks about arresting people who disclose or publish information – is this true? I just want clarity. It is the story that I read about the Bill in the Newsday. Thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. President Sir, I thank the Hon. Senators for the positive contributions they have made. It is true that using electronic and online communication is far much faster. Where you may have a process of registering your title deed, which might take 90 days, you might now take three hours or even an hour, instead of three months or several months because of the introduction of electronic processing.
Now, the question of the current Deeds Registry which we have both in Harare and Bulawayo we are already on a programme of digitalisation of the two registries so that they become digitalised and you can now computerise so that they can operate online. Most importantly, we are creating a database where registered practitioners are registered. Notary public practitioners are also registered so that we do away with the current system. This relates to the second question that I was asked where commissioners of oath were given to many people on the basis of their integrity such as being a headmaster or a leader in a community would be granted a certificate as Commissioner of Oath.
Now, it is only going to be given to people who are registered professionals so that these people have ethics and regulations governing their professions, and do away with instances where we have been having problems of fake Commissioners of Oaths who created their own stamps and so on. Once you go to a person who says he is a Commissioner of Oath you go online to check from the database whether it is true or not. So, you can easily at home and on your own phone check whether this person is registered and certified to do what he says he wants to do. This has improved security of transfers. Our people were suffering. You are staying in a home but then discover that the house you are staying in has been transferred to somebody else when you are staying in the house. All those things will now not be possible because we have this system which we are introducing.
This also covers the question of this briefcase business which Hon. Sen. Masuku is talking about. That will be eliminated again. You cannot claim to be what you are not, anymore because there is a profession to which you are registered. Once you get registered, you are put on a database. If you commit any crime, you are removed from the database by the profession which you belong to; either it is a practitioner or notary public.
Hon. Sen. Timveos, I have not seen the newspaper which you are referring to in the first place. Secondly, I am not so sure whatever the paper is saying, we do not have that. We are not criminalising anything in relation to investigative journalism, no. We are addressing business, the ease of doing business is what we are addressing in the Bill. The question of journalists peeping their nose into other people’s affairs is not in this Bill. It is elsewhere. So I am afraid, I do not know precisely what the journalist was addressing but I am not addressing the issues he was addressing. I am addressing the issue I am addressing. I thank you Mr. President.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Thursday, 11th May, 2017.
On the motion of THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER
OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA), the House adjourned at Five Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS ANNUAL
GENERAL MEETING
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform all members of the
Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus that the Annual General Meeting which could not be held on 5th May, 2017 due to lack of quorum, has been rescheduled for Wednesday, 17th May, 2017 in the Senate Chamber at 09.00 a.m. Members are requested to bring their documents for reference purposes.
INVITATION TO A CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also wish to inform the House that there will be a Catholic Church service tomorrow, Wednesday, 17th May, 2017 at 12.00 p.m in the Senate Chamber. All members who are
Catholics and non-Catholics are invited to attend.
COLLECTION OF THE UPGRADED HIGHWAY CODE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I further wish to inform the House that all Members of Parliament are requested to collect a copy of the upgraded Highway Code from the Journals office.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MINERALS AND EXPLORATION
MARKETING CORPORATION BILL [H.B. 11, 2015] ON THE
ORDER PAPER
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that the Minerals and Exploration Marketing Corporation Bill (H.B. 11, 2015) which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper at the stage it had reached in terms of Standing Order Number 161(1).
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The reason I rose regarding the Minerals and Exploration Marketing Corporation Bill is that the last time this Bill was presented to this House I, as a member of the Mines and Energy Portfolio Committee, did mention that the Bill needed to be separated between marketing and exploration. I seek clarity and guidance from you, Mr. Speaker, whether that has been done or not.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, I think it was the recommendation of the Committee that the Bill be split into two. In other words, exploration alone and marketing alone. Are you still of that position and if so, why do you bring them as a combined Bill?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. It was my understanding that we engaged the Committee and discussed areas of difference, but if that is not the correct position, we withdraw our position and we will go and engage the Committee and come back.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am not quite following Hon. Minister.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): It is correct that the Committee requested the separation of the two Bills and we agreed to engage the Committee. When I looked at the motion now, it was my understanding that the engagement had been done, but I want to take note of the Hon.
Member’s comments and we will do as he requests – look at the matter and engage with the Committee to see whether we create a common ground on their concerns.
THE HON. SPEAKER: We need to be clear. Was it a request or a recommendation?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): No, we engaged the
Committee to explain the Bill prior to bringing it across here. On the day when the Committee made the recommendations, I might have missed that debate Hon. Speaker. If it was done in the House, I was not aware that that is what happened.
The Chairman of the Committee on Mines and Mining
Development approaches the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister of Mines and
Mining Development, I think your latter explanation was correct that there was need for further engagement. In which case the re-instatement cannot subsist and therefore, perhaps you could move the standing down of Notice of Motion Number 1.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
move that Notice of Motion Number one be stood over, until all the other motions have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 and
3 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 4 is disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B. 2, 2017]
Fourth Order read: Second Reading: National Peace and
Reconciliation Commission Bill [H.B. 2, 2017]
Question again proposed.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would also like to add my voice to this very important motion. I would like to begin by saying that, the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission’s specific mandate is to deal with the past by making sure that they facilitate truth telling.
For me, in order for this peace building process to be a success, it is important that truth telling be done in an open and transparent manner.
We want to make sure that what happened is not going to happen again. For instance, if you look at issues to do with Gukurahundi and other issues, it is like what Government did was to take an elastoplast and put it on a wound without applying betadine. So, what has been happening in the 35 years is that, that wound has been eating into the flesh. It is now deeper and the pain is severe. So, it is important that we remove that elastoplast, apply betadine so that the wounds heal and heal for good. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
That can only happen, Mr. Speaker Sir if the truth is told. Let the truth be told because the truth shall set you free. Once truth has been told, we want justice. Let justice take its course. Once justice takes its course, then there will be peace. Once there is peace, then you can reconcile the nation. Once there is reconciliation, then there will be development because a country cannot develop on a foundation of injustices. You have to deal with the injustices in order for development to take place. So, our plea to the Hon. Vice President is that let this process be done in such a manner that we are going to heal the wounds and heal them for good.
The Bill does not state how that truth telling is going to happen. It also does not state how justice is going to happen. So, it is important that this Bill at least clearly states how that truth telling is going to happen and how justice is going to happen.
On Section 9, where the Minister can issue a certificate prohibiting disclosure of evidence which is deemed to be of a security nature. If you look at all these issues that ever happened, all these issues are very sensitive. There is not even a single one which is not sensitive. So, if the Minister is allowed to be issuing certificates, it means he is going to be issuing certificates every step of the way. We are saying let this process be done in an open and transparent manner. Why are we not doing it like what the Rwandese did; they were sitting underneath trees while people were giving evidence. This is what we want; we are saying let us deal with this matter once and for all so that we move the country forward.
So, the issue of the certificate, I do not support it because the Commission would not be independent. It would be like the Minister would be interfering with the job of the Commission. Even if the new Bill provides that an affected member can appeal to the Commission, if they are not satisfied about that certificate, for me even if they were to appeal, I do not see anything new happening.
The other issue has to do with the issue of archiving the information. How is the information going to be archived because the Bill does not state clearly? On the issue of access to information, will the public have access to information wherever they want to use it? The other very important issue is to do with safety and protection of witnesses before, during and after they give evidence. If there is no security and protection, it means witnesses are going to be followed before they go and give that evidence, they will be threatened or after they give evidence they be followed and threatened. So, we need a guarantee that witnesses are going to be protected during this process.
The other issue is that in this whole process, violence has always had a gender dimension and we are saying the majority of the people who have been affected are women. So, the peace building process must try by whatever means possible to make sure that they become sensitive and capture the gender dimension. At the same time, there are people during this process who were excluded politically, economically and socially. The majority of these people are women. The peace building process must mainstream all these people because they were excluded. That is where issues of devolution come into play; power must be devolved to provinces so that every Zimbabwean has an equal share of the cake. The point that I am trying to raise here is that, let the peace building process mainstream gender so that issues to do with gender are taken into consideration; like I said that women are the ones who have been affected in the majority.
The last issue that I would like to raise has to do with the existence and the term of office of the Commission. According to the
Constitution, the Commission is to exist for 10 years. If we look at what is happening right now, four years have already been lost. How are those four years going to be compensated? Are we going to amend the Constitution because it is a constitutional matter so that the four years are incorporated, or are you going to do something to make sure that those four years lost are incorporated? I do not think that the Commission will be able to do this work in six years because this is a mammoth task Mr. Speaker Sir; a lot has to be done. I said earlier on that we want this process to be done in an open and transparent manner so that we have peace and tranquility in this country. Whilst there is peace and tranquility, this country is going to develop for the good of every Zimbabwean. I rest my case.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for this opportunity to debate the National Peace and Reconciliation
Commission Bill which is one of those Bills that will give us an opportunity as Zimbabweans to be able to implement our Constitution. I must say through you Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to express my pleasure at the presence of the Hon. Vice President and Minister of National Healing, Peace and Reconciliation, Hon. Mphoko for gracing this House in order for this debate to be heard. That is exactly as it should be and I am pleased that he will hear the concerns we have.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to really commence my debate and further to the Chairperson’s report and the views of those who have debated before me, I believe – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] – I believe it will be
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order at the back there, we need to follow what the Hon. Member is saying.
HON. MAJOME: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. It will be remiss of me to begin expressing my views about the content of this particular Bill without also expressing my strongly and deeply held views about the other issues around the process of coming up with this Bill. It is no secret that this is the second attempt to bring a Bill before the Hon.
House on the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission. I talk about this because this particular Commission that the Bill refers to is one Commission whose lifetime is ephemeral. It is the only Commission in the Constitution that has a timeframe, as the Leader of the Opposition in the House Hon. Khupe has said before me that the
Constitution, as Hon. Members are aware, provides that there shall be a National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for a period of 10 years after the effective date. The effective date is defined as the date upon which His Excellency, the President assumed office after the general election of 2013.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Section 324 of the Constitution provides that, “all constitutional obligations must be performed diligently and without delay.” I believe it is our duty as Parliament to ensure that we do indeed fulfill this Constitution. We must frown upon delays such as the present that are not explained as to why is it that we have failed all this time and why have we caused this delay that the Constitution says is not permissible Further on, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to submit very humbly and very respectfully that if we had performed our duty diligently in terms of section 324, we would not be doing a second take of this Bill. Why am I saying so Mr. Speaker Sir? I am saying that because it is common cause that a Bill was drafted that was condemned roundly from every dwala, every tree and everywhere in Zimbabwe. Ordinary members of the public who came for the first hearings first time were aghast at just how unconstitutional the Bill was.
The reason I am raising this is that Zimbabwe is a country that is really struggling in terms of resources. Our Government does not have much money; our revenue authority is struggling to raise revenue for the Government. I am glad that the Hon. Vice President and Minister of the National Healing and Reconciliation is here. May he please convey that message to other Hon. Ministers, that can we please do everything that we can to make sure that we use those very precious and those very scarce resources very well.
We did go round the country in vain because of the state of the
Bill. There was money, time spend and precious parliamentary time that went, I say that because at that point, I had the privilege of chairing the Portfolio Committee and the Hon. Members of that Committee worked extremely hard. They went and listened to views. It was not easy; the anger that we felt and that we heard from Zimbabweans, I will speak later on about the anger that I could almost touch particularly in Bulawayo and in Matabeleland North in particular when this Bill was heard. It takes a lot out of Members of Parliament to sit and receive such anger. We are the face of the public and the public, we are the ones that the public looks at and they take their anger on us.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I say this because we have the office of the
Attorney General. In terms of Section 114(4), subsection 4, the Attorney-General is the Chief Legal Advisor of Government and they are the ones that draft Bills such as the one that we have. They are required to promote, protect and uphold the rule of law and act in the public interest. It is my respectful view that if the Attorney-General’s Office was performing its functions fully as required by the Constitution, they would not have suffered; the Hon. Vice President and Minister of National Healing, Peace and Reconciliation carrying on with a Bill that was palpably unconstitutional. That then caused him to redo this Bill.
They should receive proper legal advice and the Attorney General’s office should actually be doing that. They should not be led by the
Nose, but should give legal counsel to Government so that our
Government can be seen to be doing its work properly.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to say because of this delay, it has caused us to lose further time. The survivors and the victims of gross human rights violations that occurred in this country are angry, hurt and are waiting for solutions. I will therefore, want to suggest respectfully that in order to make up for these four years, this unexplained delay of four shameful years of having the Commission start – we have a duty to make this up to the Zimbabwean public who wrote this Constitution. It is my respectful view that when the Commission begins its work, the reckoning of the ten years must start from the minute that the Commission starts to work because the Constitution provides that it is ten years after the effective date. Today is after the effective date. It is still after the effective date and we can start reckoning the days from this day to the ten years so that we show that we care about the people that we represent.
I would like to acknowledge the improvements that have been made in the Bill – that it is encouraging indeed that the Vice President listened to the people of Zimbabwe when they cried and screamed about the first Bill. I would like to thank him for that and hope that he continues to further improve the Bill so that we can be judged well in terms of history.
I would like to say that the experience that we had in the public hearings is very eloquent and pitiful cry for peace and reconciliation to happen in Zimbabwe. The very way in which the public hearings were conducted shows that this Bill is of critical importance. Zimbabweans are bleeding and dying and Zimbabwe is in need of healing.
I will mention experiences that we had Mr. Speaker Sir. We had experiences particularly in public hearings that show that we need this
Commission to start its work yesterday and to meticulously follow what the Constitution provides in terms of its duties. It must not do superficial show of it. There was violence at the Public Hearings of this National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill. It was very ironic in that it was about peace and reconciliation but it was like war, in particular in Mashonaland Central. I will not forget that the atmosphere was extremely hostile. Survivors of brutal violence of May 2008 that I personally know because I happen to hail from this province; there was one particular one whom I first met when he was in hospital when he had been assaulted and his brother had been killed who was an MDC Councillor for a Ward in Mazowe Central. He was brave enough to come to the public hearing to give his views but he was prevented….
THE VICE PRESIDENTAND THE MINISTER OF
NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON.
MPHOKO): On a point of order Hon. Speaker, some of us have damaged ears and people are making noise. I want to hear what the
Hon. Member is saying.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, may I caution that you did a very good job during the public hearing and consequently, the Bill then proposed was withdrawn. I request that you go to the meat and bones of the current Bill.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for your guidance but I am talking about the hearings on the second Bill. I am saying this because it is not possible to include everything in the report. During the hearings of this second Bill that has improved so much and I thank the Hon. Vice President for working on – in these particular hearings in Mashonaland Central, Bindura in particular, a survivor of very brutal violence whose name is Hilton Chironga was actually prevented from speaking at that hearing. He was brave enough to come to express his views but he was grabbed by the belt and was forced to sit down by the Deputy Mayor of Bindura together with other councillors –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- She identified herself as such in the public hearings.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this kind of conduct shows how much we need hearing. The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill will teach us to be tolerant…
*HON. ZHOU: On a point of order, the Hon. Member is lying. I am one of the Committee Members and this did not happen.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, the danger is that you had a recorded report and you cannot now go outside that report. This is where your fellow Committee Members might disagree with what you are trying to say now. Can you proceed?
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir but I would wish that you remind the Hon. Member to speak the truth because there are video recordings for these particular hearings. He must also …
THE HON. SPEAKER: The issue Hon. Member was not
captured in your report. That is the issue. It becomes extraneous.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will proceed to indicate that the state of intolerance that we have in this country shows that we need peace and reconciliation and we need to…
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order, we would like to listen to what the Hon. Member is saying but the Hon. Members on the left side are making noise and accusing us of murder as if they never murdered anyone. If it is a matter of calling each other murderers, then the Bill will not pass. We cannot allow people who say a lot of false statements. They are giving false information as well as the person who is debating. A lot of heckling is happening on the left side; especially the woman with a wig and who calls herself a doctor. It is very dangerous for an Hon. Member to behave like this.
Mr. Speaker, war veterans died for the liberation of this country. The Sitholes died and were buried inhumanly. If they say such statements, no peace will happen – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Is it not shameful that we are dealing with a Bill that is seeking peace and we are not behaving in a peaceful manner? Can the heckling please stop and allow the debate to proceed quietly?
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I hope you will allow me to use my device because that is where I put my notes for the debate on this particular Bill.
I hope that the Hon. Vice President will consider improving the Bill in the following respects in order to give effect to the desperately needed healing and reconciliation that our country desires. In particular, I am hoping that he would develop in the Bill clear provisions and mechanisms to ensure that four things are done in particular because I do not see them in the Bill:
- The telling of the truth – that we are not going to be able to move forward as a nation if we do not deal with our past. We must be able to learn to sit at tables, tell each other our experiences and hear them no matter how unsavoury and disturbing they are. That telling of the truth will help us reconcile. The telling of the truth that this was done to me; we will find each other that way. It is not a dangerous thing at all. That is the beginning in the Bill because the functions of the
Commission in terms of the Constitution require that the Commission does so and in the Bill, there does not seem to be much devoted to that. Secondly, I would hope that the Bill also takes time in dealing with the second issue of reparations, to show a process on how people can start to talk about it and what mechanisms might be done.
The third one is the issue of justice. The Bill must indicate how justice for those people who survived the atrocities is going to be done. Yes, we have a criminal justice system, but this issue keeps arising is because there are people who are walking around scot free but they raped people, killed people, took people’s goods but are floating around and the criminal law is not working. The Bill must indicate how it is going to relate to that, because there is some mention of amnesty out of the blue but it does not say if the amnesty is going to be available and for what kind of issues. How do you arrive at that stage, if there is going to be any amnesty? In my respectful view, amnesty must actually not be talked about but instead there must be mechanisms that indicate how those people who have not obtained criminal or civil justice are going to be able to go possibly to the police to claim damages - because, the police are there and the witnesses are still around.
The fourth thing is the guarantee of non-recurrence. I would hope that the Hon. Vice President devotes some time in having this Bill devote some effort to indicate how those terrible things that happened in this country that we did to each other and that were done to us that they do not ever happen again so that Zimbabwe can move forward. I notice that the Bill talks about giving investigative functions to the
Commission. I have a difficulty with this for two reasons in the way it is crafted. The Bill is saying that the Commission will investigate only when a person comes forward and complains that this happened to me. I hope that the Hon. Vice President allows the Commission and makes it clear that the Commission can mero motu, as lawyers say on its own initiative investigate. It should not be sitting and waiting in its offices but it should actually be proactive and go there.
Further on, I hope that we can consider removing the discretion that the Commission will have as to whether or not to investigate if a person comes because many people will not have justice. It is my hope also in Clause 6 (5), there is an indication that if the Commission wants the cooperation or the assistance of any department of Government and that Government department does not comply; the Commission can tell a relevant Committee of Parliament which can summon that department.
But, the Bill does not go on to state what then happens if the Commission still refuses. I would hope that there would be some measures to make sure that there can be compulsion of cooperation with the Commission.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also go further to indicate that in this particular Bill, I would hope that it specifically mentions or defines - in a way what those issues are that the Commission would want to deal with – what kind of violations are we dealing with. Are they gross human rights violations, are they kidnappings, are they extra judicial killing or are they more or less like sudden poverty maybe inflicted by finding your money in the bank in loss of zeros and your pension having gone. Are they economic, physical or psychological to maybe indicate that? I also hope that the Bill itself in Clause 13 and I implore the Hon. Vice President through you Mr. Speaker Sir to allow the Commission to put up in place its own organogram or staff infrastructure.
My appeal to the Hon. Vice President is that it would not take anything away from the Hon. Vice President if the Commission were to indeed enjoy the independence that the Constitution gives it for it to do its organogram and they consult the Hon. Minister of Finance. If the Commission were to consult with the Hon. Vice President about how to setup the organogram; it would, with respect amount to interference with the independence of the Commission. Once you set up the architecture, if they can hire and fire at will, it means that it is already impinged.
In that respect I also urge the Hon. Vice President through you Mr. Speaker Sir to consider also not taking away the provision that requires the Commission to give its financial reports to him first. I believe that the provisions in the Constitution requiring reports are sufficient. Also that for the first meeting of the Commission, I also submit that you should consider meeting it…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, your time is up
unfortunately.
HON. MARIDADI: I move that the Hon. Member’s time be
extended by five minutes.
Motion put.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I object.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I
will take a slightly different dimension or approach to this Bill that is being brought. I have a problem in accepting this Bill at this stage because, if you go through the report that was compiled by the Committee that also represented us, their first statement on their conclusion, they say, generally the Bill did not receive wide acceptance from the Members of the public. So, I am at pains because if members of the public did not accept the Bill during hearings, in the first place, why did you consult them. If they were not comfortable with the Bill, we must also take consideration of what the members of the public were saying. Last but not least on the conclusion, there is this statement by the Committee – it is the Committee’s view that the Bill in its present format is unacceptable. I want to partially support and agree with that Committee’s observation.
I say so because Mr. Speaker, there is a maxim which says ‘justice delayed is justice denied’. If this country had conflict in one way or the other; whether it was a tribal, religious, ethnic or political conflict and we are looking at the number of years that we have gone past and we have failed as a nation to go and give evidence about what has happened, why are we trying to open up those wounds now. I say so because I think that there is a third force which is trying to throw into our Constitution and system certain negativities that will cause conflict amongst and between ourselves.
Mr. Speaker, I am for peace and I respect the Constitution’s Sections 251, 252 and 253. In 2008 Mr. Speaker when I was in the police force, I went to Liberia for a year for peace keeping duties and what happened there during that period of time is that there was a Truth and Reconciliation Commission and people were going to give evidence about the conflicts that they had, but it was done soon after the conflict. You cannot have a truth and reconciliation commission 17 years past the conflict. What are we trying to achieve here? I am at pains Mr. Speaker to accept this Bill because if you look at countries that have no peace and have disturbances, it is because of these issues that we are trying to bring into existence. These are issues to do with tribes, ethnicity and so forth. I think that it is not good for our democracy and our country. Let us not forget our history. In 1987 on the 22nd of December, the late great son of the soil, Father Zimbabwe and the surviving His Excellency, the President of this country entered into a Unity Accord. It is my view that the leaders were trying to unite people together.
As we debate and talk about this Bill, we must not forget what Father Zimbabwe did for us. It was a way to try and unite the people, and forget about being Shona or Ndebele and being one nation. I advocate for unity amongst ourselves and forget about these things that we are talking about – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –. I have a problem Mr. Speaker in accepting this Bill at this stage. I thank you. *HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me
this opportunity to add my voice on such an important issue of national interest to the people of Zimbabwe from Zambezi to Limpopo. The last speaker and the two previous speakers are both correct. It then depends on one’s point of view and in terms of where we come from as a country and where are going. This Bill, wateya ngoma wati iye idi riwanike neuya riwanike zvinongofana nemumba kuti zvakaitika zvakaitika, zvakaoneka. It simply means let by-gones be by-gones. The sixth sense tells you that this was right or wrong. By so doing, you will have made a decision and it is a right that we were given by God.
The 2008 and Gukurahundi issues that were being made reference to I exclaim, where are we going as a nation? You now want to open old wounds that had healed. If a husband and wife fought last week, would they continuously be revisiting the reason for the conflict? Would there be peace in that particular home? Let us be nation builders. That is why we were saying that if the prayer that is given by the Speaker would be understood by each and every individual in their mother tongue, that would guide us as to what exactly we seek to achieve in this august
House.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! What is maunderstendero in Shona? What is that?
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am saying as is the case in the Bible when many received the Holy Spirit from God and the word was being preached. Each and everyman was able to hear the message in their own mother tongue. If all mother’s languages were to be used, we were going to understand all the idioms whether in Shona and Ndebele and one would quickly understand….
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member. The rules say that you should stick to one language. That is why I had to ask you what is maunderstendero. Please stick to one language.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Maunderstendero simply means
understanding. We would then understand because it will be in our mother tongue.
The Bill before the House is done by those that is, as has been said by the last speaker, people that want to cause conflict or a third force. It is a third force that is causing Zimbabwean children to fight one another. The Bill has been delayed and if possible, we should stop having the Bill. There should be peace and reconciliation and we move ahead. I thank you.
HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think the first point I wish to make about this particular Bill is that Members of Parliament must be reminded that it is coming as a result of a constitutional provision, which is establishing the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill. It is not for us today to then say we must strike it off and not establish this Commission. It is also instructive that those responsible for perpetrating violence and pain among the Zimbabweans will probably be happy if we are to stop this process and let by-gones be by-gones but in reality Mr. Speaker Sir, the nation does not heal that way. We must be able to face our demons if we want this country to progress. It is very easy for a perpetrator to expect the victim to forgive and forget but if you reverse the processes you will realise that a victim can only be healed when the truth and justice has been done.
On this particular Bill Mr. Speaker Sir, I wish to mention to you that any outcome is determined by the process and on the process of this Bill, there are a number of issues that I really feel were not considered and have really affected the content of this particular Bill. The first point I wish to raise Mr. Speaker is that the importance of this Bill is such that there was supposed to be very wide consultation of all Zimbabweans to input their views. There were only 10 meetings throughout the country with one meeting held per province and I am sure that is definitely not enough to gather enough information to guide the nation forward. The numbers of affected people are so many that we needed to open up the process. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Parliamentary Committee that was collecting oral evidence did not visit my constituency – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, please at the back there.
HON. SARUWAKA: Mr. Speaker Sir, in my constituency, Mutasa Central, the Committee that was moving around collecting views did not pass through it. They held their meeting in Mutare. I then had an opportunity to meet with the constituents over this particular Bill with the help of the National Transitional Justice Working Group Zimbabwe (NTLWG) and I wish to share the input that came from the people of Mutasa Central. Mr. Speaker Sir, there were submissions to the fact that the Bill must give the Commission power and capacity to set up a victims’ fund. This is important because you will realise that many victims need rehabilitation and compensation. Some of these require simple things like wheelchairs and walking sticks. For someone who was maimed through violence, up to date, they are unable to do their day-to-day chores; they can be helped if a fund, through this Bill, is established. The money can be used to support the victims and that way, they can be able to heal.
There is a submission from Mutasa Central where they were saying, they particularly feel that when setting up the Commission, may you please leave out those from the security sector, either as commissioners or as part of the secretariat. The simple reason advanced by those who made this submission was, unfortunately our security sector has been tainted. It has been pointed as the perpetrators in most of the instances so much that if they are going to be commissioners, it removes the confidence from the victims hence they (the commissioners/secretariat) will not be able to discharge their duties properly because of their tainted past. It is a specific request that as you set up your Commission, please make sure that you just pick from the civilians and not those that were participating in the atrocities.
The last point that I wish to make is the interpretation made by Sekuru Lancelot Sakupwanya who is 70 years old now. In his submission, in terms of the ten year life span of the commission, his understanding, which we agreed as to be probably the best and I am appealing that you take that to be the proper interpretation of the ten year period; is that the term has to be from the day the Commission starts work and not from 2013 when the Constitution was put into effect. We would really appreciate if you consider the tenure to reflect Sekuru
Sakupwanya’s interpretation. Those are my submissions Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to add a few words on this Bill. I am unhappy about this Bill or I can say I do not like it. I do not want the Bill to be there. The Bill should begin with who started the war, who fired the first shot and who first killed who.
We are hurt because we were in camps then.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. We have to be very careful about what we say. The Executive, in its wisdom as guided by the
Constitution has brought this Bill here. There is no way we can say the
Constitution is wrong. To say the Executive is wrong in bringing this Bill, the Executive has complied with the constitutional provision. That is why the Bill is before us. There is no way you can say the Bill is not supposed to be here.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. That is my
view....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I have guidance from the Chair. Otherwise, you are saying there is something wrong with the Executive and there is something wrong with the Constitution. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, the previous speaker, Hon. Mandipaka spoke about the findings from the public hearings and that the Bill was not received well by the members of the public. I am among those members who did not receive it well. I said as one person who was in one of the camps, people should not just talk about gukurahundi....
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order and switch off your microphone. Hon. Member, you are not like the ordinary members of the public. If you follow Section 119 of the Constitution, it says that you should uphold this Constitution. You are not like the generality of the people. You are bound by the Constitution. So, confine yourself to the issues that are in the Bill only.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. What I want
to say is that I have heard people saying, when I was in Dzapasi, there was what we used to refer to as the Entumbane battle that killed a lot of people. People were put in trains and came to their homes. The issue that we are trying to talk about is to open old wounds that had healed– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – When others were debating, people were silent, so allow me to debate in silence. Please protect me Mr. Speaker.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member, please understand. Debate the issues that are around the Bill only – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: It appears as if I am now appearing to be stupid because people were discussing about people being killed in Bindura. I am trying to explain but you want me to confine myself to the Bill. People were talking about people murdered and I want also to make reference to the same issues. I want to give reference to the
Entumbane issue....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Chinotimba if you recall, I told Hon. Majome not to talk about the past issues in Bindura because that is not what is contained in their report as a Committee and she complied.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon. Speaker, people are talking about
Gukurahundi issues and other such issues. If that is the case, Mr. Speaker, let me end here and say that we will not agree. I do not like this Bill whether you accept it or not. I am not saying the Executive is wrong. The Executive has done well to bring this Bill, but people talk about corruption. They discuss issues about corruption. If the Executive cannot see, clearly this Bill will destroy the country. I will not allow it. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to add my voice to this Peace and National Reconciliation Commission Bill [H.B. 2, 2017]. Mr. Speaker, we do not live in the past. Rivers never flow in reverse. Let us try to be like a river. Let us focus on the future. Let us always be positive...
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, what is your point of
order.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I am pained Hon. Speaker. I am pained by the fact that we are debating an important Bill and Hon. Chinotimba may take it lightly. It is not good for an Hon. Member like Hon. Chinotimba...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I have ruled the Hon. Member out of order, so you cannot debate that.
*HON. ADV.CHAMISA: I am not debating Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not debate what Hon. Chinotimba
did. He was ruled out of order.
*HON. ADV.CHAMISA: Yes, he has been ruled out of order, but my request, Mr. Speaker, is that if we want to build our country, when we have such a debate, we should not have too much differences. We should not appear as if we are playing games or fighting. The Vice President is here, he is representing the entire country. He represents the President and the Constitution as you have said. My point of order is, that let us give due gravity to this issue because this came out as a result of the people’s input. We should debate this issue bearing in mind that these issues came from the people. These are the people’s issues and not ours. It is not our opinion. If the Vice President is here, the country is here and we represent the people. We must respect that.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, have you decided to take over my presiding over this House? I have already given those comments and made a ruling that no one should talk about any other issues except what is contained in the Bill. I am still holding that position. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: I ask Hon. Members to please give me a chance to express myself freely without any disturbance. Mr. Speaker, I will start again that rivers do not flow in reverse. Let us try to be like a river. Let us focus on the future. Let us always be positive.
Mr. Speaker, this Bill does not seek to unite people. The reason why I say this is that in 1980, when independence was granted to this country, there was no truth and reconciliation. Nothing was done to Smith when he did worse. Now, when we are beginning to look into issues to try and criticise our own Government. That is now treasonous, Mr. Speaker. We have a new Constitution, but we need to remember that this Constitution that we adopted is a Constitution that came with a compromise because there was the GNU and there were all sorts of things. It is very liberal. A lot of laws are not yet aligned to this
Constitution.
In 1987, as Hon. Mandipaka said, on 22nd December there was a unity accord and the third force which Hon. Mandipaka said, a third force is trying to cause division amongst ourselves. Already we have division here, Mr. Speaker. Our division here is between the opposition and the ruling party, ZANU PF and MDC. We divide the people and us as MPs. MP means men of the people. Our power derives from the people...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I appeal to the Hon. Members not to be emotional – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Holder, what you are saying is an appeal towards amendment of the Constitution. As long as this Constitution has not been amended vis-a-vis the section that deals with this Commission, there is no way you can wish away the provisions of the Constitution.
So, in that regard, we must discuss the Bill presented here by the
Executive. Thank you.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker, but that is not going to intimidate me. I would actually say to you, Mr. Speaker Sir...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Holder you will withdraw that statement.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I will withdraw that statement, but Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand guided. May I proceed with my debate Mr. Speaker Sir?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sit down, thank you. Read your Standing Orders. You cannot dispute the ruling of the Chair, otherwise I am going to send you out. Hon. Holder, can you sit down please?
HON. CROSS: This afternoon, Mr. Speaker, I wish to address the House from the perspective of being a Zimbabwean and I can recall when I was growing up in the Matopo Hills in Matabeleland because I was born near Mbalabala. I recall visiting villages and speaking to the elderly people, particularly the men – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I spoke to elders who wore the ring on their heads. I think you know what I am talking about. These were the Indunas, the tribal leaders.
I can well remember these…..
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa once said the Hon. Vice
President is here. He represents the presidency and we should respect that. He has appealed to this august House that he would like to follow clearly and please less noise. You do not seem to be respecting that.
Thank you.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker, I can remember these elders in the
Isindebele villages talking about the time when they used to raid the
Shona villages in the north and they talked in derogatory terms about the Shona people. I can remember them referring to the Shona people in extremely derogatory terms. This means that for them the war that existed in the country before 1893 was as alive today as it was then. I was a young White Rhodesian, who went right through the war of liberation. Mr. Speaker in the war of liberation….
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order, this White man is
talking about selous scouts in here. He killed our people. How can he talk about peace and reconciliation? Many people died because of this
White person – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Chinotimba, come
back. Your Standing Orders here clearly state that you cannot refer to an Hon. Member in the manner you have done. Can you please withdraw the statement?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: He said it himself that he is a Rhodesian.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you withdraw your statement!
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I withdraw, but he is a White Hon.
Member, he is not Black. I am Black. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Cross, please avoid raising emotive issues that are historical. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON.
MPHOKO): I am sorry, I might be taking it over from you; I am not sure. I think it is important to guide some of our Members. What is happening in this country is that the President cannot operate outside the Constitution; nobody can.
You have been demanding us to come here to Parliament, using the Constitution. So there is nothing amiss by this Bill because it is here in the Constitution. Nobody here, even if you think you want the Bill not
to be discussed, you cannot clear it from the Constitution. First and foremost, let us fulfill the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we have an obligation, I have an obligation charged to me by the President and Parliament and I want to make sure that the Bill passes through. It is very important. Only the fear of the unknown can scare the people, otherwise this Bill is for the nation. It is not for me, not for you and not for anybody else; it is for the nation.
Thank you.
Hon. Chinotimba having wanted to raise another point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Chinotimba, please observe protocol. When the Hon. Vice President has explained in support of what I have been trying to put across to yourselves, you cannot raise another point of order please. Hon. Cross please, you must hold yourself.
HON. CROSS: I will try to. Mr. Speaker, we went through a bitter civil war and the winds of that war remain war today. When I was
General Manager of the Cold Storage Commission, I lived through Gukurahundi, all four years of it. I witnessed first time the suffering of people of Matabeleland and the Midlands. Later on in 2005, I witnessed Murambatsvina. Since 2000, we have had the continuous violence against members of the opposition in a democratic process. These are wounds of our nation which have to be healed and I fully support this Bill today. I want to see this Commission established and operational as soon as possible. I just want to make the following comments Mr.
Speaker Sir. The United Nations laid down five principles for
Commissions of this nature.
The first is the right of everybody to know what happened. The other day I met the matron of Mpilo Hospital in Bulawayo. She is a middle aged Ndebele woman by the name Khumalo. Her father was murdered outside Gwanda and the family was never able to find out what happened to him or where he was buried. For that woman who today is middle aged, that incident when she was a young teenager is as real as yesterday. She has a right to know what happened to her father, who were the perpetrator and what were the reasons. So, the first right which the UN prescribes is the right to know what actually happened.
The second is the right to a sense that justice has been done. In Rwanda where we had this terrible genocide in which over a million people died in a very short space of time - 80 thousand people per day, justice was only obtained when the traditional leaders in Rwanda were brought into the game. The murder – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Order Hon.
Members from my right and from my left.
HON. CROSS: The modern methods of justice simply will not be able to cope with the volume of work that was involved – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I want
to hear Hon. Cross debating.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: My point of order is that I was talking about Gukurahundi and I wanted to express when this started and who started it? Why was I ruled out of order and why is Hon. Cross talking about Gukurahundi when I have been barred from talking about it and the Chimurenga. I wanted to say the first thing was not Gukurahundi but it was Entumbane. They are saying no, but this one is talking about it. People were killed - who killed them? So, let us leave that out. He is labeling me a murderer when I liberated him. For him to be in this House, it is because of me. They should stop such issues. I have been barred from speaking
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Chinotimba. Hon.
Members, can we please maintain order in the House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members, I will not hesitate to take action right now, if you continue in this mood. – [HON.
CHINOTIMBA: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Chinotimba and Hon.
Mawere, do not force me to take action against you. – [HON.
CHINOTIMBA: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Chinotimba!
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):
On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MPHOKO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I left Cabinet to come here because you wanted me to be present. Now, you are busy discussing something outside the Bill. Can you please guide us Madam
Speaker, that we follow the discussion not any other discussion please. If anybody comes here and talks about something different, rule them out of order please. I left Cabinet to come here and now you are not even making use of me. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order. I
heard Hon. Chinotimba’s point of order but I would want to correct you. When you rose you said you did not support this Bill. This is why the
Speaker said you cannot say you do not support this Bill because it is in the Constitution. You should have pointed out what exactly it is in the Bill that you do not want.
Secondly Hon. Members, listen whilst I explain this other issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, Hon. Members. I am still speaking – [HON. HOLDER: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Holder, can you please respect the Chair. Hon. Member, the other issue is that you must not repeat what have been said, the Vice President has heard about it. We want new ideas as regard the input of the Bill; debate around the Bill and not anything. Please do not comment on things that have already been spoken about.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will not take any point of order from now – [HON. HOLDER: Point of order.] – I am not going to take your point of order.
HON. CROSS: Thank you Madam Speaker, the point that I am making on the second principle for the United Nations is that it may be necessary under these circumstances to involve our traditional leaders in this process of seeking justice for our communities.
The third principle is the right to compensation. Madam Speaker, we know that during these periods which the President called ‘moments of madness’, people suffered physical losses and we need to ensure that there are some mechanisms available for compensation.
The fourth principle laid down by the United Nations is the right to understand that this will never happen again. These kinds of incidents and maladministration will not happen again. The fifth item is the right to written record. This Bill, in my view falls, short of these five principles.
In addition to that, I would like to raise the question of the Second Schedule for the benefit of the Vice President. In the Second Schedule of the Bill, there are provisions under sections 10, 11, 12, 13 and 16 which provide for the Commission to provide loans to members of the
Commission for houses - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I want
to hear Hon. Cross; I cannot hear anything from here. Please, can you maintain order in the House?
HON. CROSS: In the sections in the Second Schedule, these provisions – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members from the back. Sergeant–at-Arms, can you please escort Hon. Pedzisai and Hon. Holder from the back outside the House – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] –
Hon. Pedzisai and Hon. Holder were escorted out of the House by the Sergeant-at-Arms
HON. CROSS: Thank you Madam Speaker, I have a couple of other things to say. So, these sections provide for the Commission to have the right to provide loans to members of staff and the commissioners themselves to purchase houses. In a Commission which is only going to last for ten years, I do not think this is really warranted. I think this is a provision that actually should be excluded from the Bill in its final form.
The final point I am going to make is that in this Bill, the President is given the responsibility of fixing salaries of the Commissioners. I would like to suggest that this should be assigned to Parliament. I do not think that the President should have responsibility for these nuts and bolts of these problems. He should be relieved of that responsibility and it should be given to Parliament, where I think we would be able to do an adequate job. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Mr. Speaker for
affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this debate. Although I would want to debate, the members on the opposite side are making noise.
I rise to say a few words. I am of the view that yes, there are certain things that need to be looked into in this Bill. I believe that the spirit of the Bill has already been tainted by the members on the other side. The members of the opposition should go and caucus. We should also go and caucus. Because when I was listening, I observed that we are no longer seeing eye to eye and we will not come up with a healthy Bill.
We should go and caucus as parties. There were issues pertaining to this Bill being taken to public hearings. The members of the public were not in agreement with this Bill in its form. Peace has already been achieved because the leaders of the liberation army, the late Vice President Joshua Nkomo and His Excellency President Mugabe buried the hatchet and came up with the unity accord.
The Bill was taken to the public. I went to Mutare and when we went there, we were told that Hon. Majome was assaulted in Mutare because of this Bill. Why would you want to proceed with such a Bill? How can we proceed with a Bill that is not acceptable to the ordinary members of the public? Let us scrutinize the Bill as political parties in our Caucuses – thereafter, we will then come back to this august House and make amendments instead of being at each other’s throats.
HON. CHIBAYA: First and foremost, I would like to remind Hon. Members that we are in this august House to represent the people of Zimbabwe and this Constitution was written by the people of
Zimbabwe.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to remind our legislators in this House that there was a Parliamentary Select Committee which was mandated to lead the writing of this Constitution. That Select Committee was made up of legislators drawn from both parties – MDC and ZANU PF. Some of the Members of Parliament are still in this august House. We did consultations and people …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Hon.
Chibaya, please address the Chair.
HON. CHIBAYA: We did consultations and I am happy that Hon. Speaker you we part of that Committee. The people of Zimbabwe were very clear that they need a Peace and Reconciliation Commission. It is disappointing Hon. Speaker that as Members of Parliament who represent the same people, we are going against this amendment.
This Bill seeks to align our legislation with the provisions of the new Constitution and I do not see anything wrong with it. Mr. Speaker, I am …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Madam Speaker.
HON. CHIBAYA: Madam Speaker, I am seeing a demon in this
House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Chibaya.
HON. CHIBAYA: I do not see the reason why….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Chibaya. I want
you to stand guided – there are no demons in this Parliament. There are Members of Parliament. Just concentrate on your debate.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I am simply saying that if Hon. Members on my right are against this Bill, I do not know which part of this country they represent. If they represent the people of this country, they cannot go against the Bill.
Let me just take you to Section 252 (b) under the functions of the
National Peace and Reconciliation Commission; it says ‘to develop and implement programmes to promote national healing, unity and cohesion in Zimbabwe in the peaceful resolution of disputes’. So, Hon. Speaker, I do not see the reason why we are going against this Bill. I just want to thank the Vice President for coming up with this Bill. Hon. Members of this august House were actually complaining that you were not coming to align the Constitution with our legislation. I want to thank you very much and I support you.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to add my voice in a different dimension because the issue of peace and reconciliation is what Hon. Chibaya said – having a way forward on national healing, unity and peace in Zimbabwe. It is alright that certain issues are being raised but let us not decide to say we want to start our history from this point. As Zimbabweans, we must go back. This is some of the work of the Peace and Reconciliation Commission to even go back to the Portuguese and get the records of the slave trade and what happened. There is no emotion. You must never be emotional because if you are emotional, it shows that you are an agent of somebody wanting to destroy the country – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - agents always show by the way they behave.
We are saying we are a country known as Zimbabwe and this
Constitution was produced by everybody. We must thank the Hon. Vice President. He has come here as per your request so that he can listen to what you are saying. I am saying, as a historian, a man of international repute – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Oh yes, oh yes, I am a former Minister with a wide range of experience. Hon. Chamisa and I are in that range of Members of Parliament of rare breed. We are looking at a situation as the people of Zimbabwe; how do we go forward as a nation.
We need to know what happened during the time of colonization. We have Acardia here; it was a product of people raped. African women were raped day and night. I was in Kenya recently. The Mao- Mao, with the assistance of the Government are suing the British. All of you who have debated are scared of attacking the British because we must attack the British for colonisation and we must demand the heads of Chingaira and Mashayamombe because there is no way that we can [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I am speaking, I am not singing and I do not need people to join me in my speaking –
[Laughter.]-
The whole thing at the present moment is that we want to correct ourselves. Hon. Cross here, I know in confidence that he is a shareholder in Thomas Meikles. Thomas Meikles is made out of looting. Thomas Meikle was the chairman of the loot committee and he is a beneficiary of theft. His shareholding is an accomplice…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mudarikwa.
Order, Order Hon. Members, I think I take guidance from what the Leader of the House spoke about two weeks ago when it comes to issues to do with pointing fingers at other Members of Parliament. He said that, all the Members of Parliament that are here have no or current criminal records and that is why you are Hon. Members of Parliament. Desist as Hon. Members from making allegations. We have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, but let us remain guided and focused by our debate. Hon. Mudarikwa, please focus on the contents of the Bill and the debate and do not lose focus. You may continue.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Well, I withdraw but it was maybe the
concept. I said the Meikles Holdings and Thomas Meikle is a product of a criminal act that was committed.
HON. MLISWA: Can I say this. It is not proper to talk about a public listed company. It has 50 000 shareholders and you cannot talk about it because some of us are shareholders and they are not here to defend themselves. Meikles are not here to defend themselves and we cannot talk about the company which is not here to defend itself. It is now a public listed company -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, it is the same company that has given 500 cars to ZANU PF to campaign. Are you not forgetting that and you do not even know who gives you money? Meikles has donated cars to you. You are so ignorant because you do not even know the company that gave you money. It gave ZANU PF 500 cars, why are they not talking about it? - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Order Hon. Mliswa. Order Hon. Members. Hon. Mliswa, order. Hon. Mliswa, you have raised a point of order to me and not to the other Members of Parliament and I
have to respond. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Mudarikwa. Order Hon. Members. Hon. Members please stand guided, I think I made a ruling on this issue and I said no to allegations.
We must respect each other.
In our Standing Orders we have privileges as Parliament – freedom of speech and whatsoever, but we must remain guided. Hon. Mudarikwa, I want you to remain guided and focus on the contents of the Bill please if you want to debate.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order, he called me pfutseki. He insulted me pfutseki and he even says we can go outside. I am ready to go with him outside if he wants us to go outside anytime. He is big and he will come down hard. As big as he is, he will come down hard. I will go for his jaw, I am not a player.
Hon. Mliswa, approach the
Chair.
HON. MLISWA: He must withdraw I am not pfutseki. He said pfutseki to me in here. Let us go and you will see it when you come back. I will deal with your fat burley - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Mliswa, approach the Chair.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL
HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):
Thank you Madam Speaker. We are not achieving anything. We are making so much noise – [AN HON. MEMBER: It is healthy.]- No, confusion is not healthy.
Madam Speaker, I want to propose that this debate should be adjourned because it looks like people do not understand what we are supposed to be discussing.
The Vice President and Minister of National Healing, Peace and Reconciliation has asked for this debate to adjourn so that Members of Parliament can go and read the Bill because from what we are debating, it shows that you do not know
the Bill at all.
HON. MPHOKO: Madam Speaker, the debate on the Bill cannot
be adjourned until tomorrow because I am attached to the visiting king.
I will be here next Tuesday….
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2017.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is appropriate as Parliament to thank
Government leadership because when we ask them to come to
Parliament, they come. So, we would like to thank the Vice President,
Hon. Mphoko for coming. We want to thank you because we – [HON.
MATAMBANADZO: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Matambanadzo, can you
withdraw that statement?
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: I withdraw Madam Speaker.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I hope what I am going to say will not
hurt anyone because I am saying this with good intentions for nation building. I just want to thank the Vice President for coming. He has shown respect for this august House. The heated debates or conflicts that you witnessed here are what we also need to work on as Members of Parliament. What I ask you to take to the President, Hon Vice President is that we also need peace and reconciliation in Parliament – [Laughter] – so that we reach that level where we can debate issues without raising emotions but debate with love because we cannot build a nation without love. Love and peace begins with us and then spreads to the rest of the nation. So, Hon Vice President, this is my plea which I am asking you to take to the President and Cabinet to help us reconcile with each other in our different parties and constituencies because we have people here who are fuming and it is difficult to handle them – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think what Hon. Chamisa has
said is very important and I agree with that. The reconciliation must start from this House.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON. GONESE,
the House adjourned at Nineteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 17th May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
INVITATION TO THE COMMISSIONING OF TOKWE-MKORSI
DAM
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that all Hon.
Members are invited by the Hon. Minister of Environment, Water and
Climate to the commissioning of the Tokwe-Mkorsi Dam on 18th May,
2017 and it will be at 2.00 p.m. Hon. Members, please note that Parliament is unable to provide fuel coupons and accommodation for this event.
I think there should have been perhaps some better coordination between us and the Ministry so that we could facilitate travel arrangements, but for the moment, those who can afford, please proceed accordingly.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Even though Parliament cannot provide for all Members of Parliament, is it not prudent for at least Parliament to provide for a certain section of Hon. Members, in particular, those that relate to this infrastructure development so that Parliament is seen also to be serious in that regard to advance the ZIM ASSET cause, Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! As I indicated earlier on,
last minute arrangements can be very futile. I think in future, we will coordinate better with the responsible Ministry so that we can come to some understanding as to the logistics.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of
order is on privilege. I rise to say, as Parliament, we should thank the issue of Command Agriculture – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I think it is really a point
of privilege. So, I give you the floor. Please be brief because this is your Question Time.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. As Members
of Parliament, God blessed us with enough rains and people were able to produce a lot or crops through Command Agriculture. As Parliament, we would like to support such initiatives. We would like to thank the Minister and the Vice President. They should remain steadfast so that we continue to have a good harvest. If we have bumper harvests, we will not be perpetually bothering Minister Mupfumira for food support.
If possible, these people should be promoted. I thank you.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of
correction. As Parliament, we are not here to belittle the President. He is the one who initiated the Command Agriculture. We do not accept ZANU PF Factions to come here to compete and praise those that are in the succession race. Mr. Speaker, this House is not an arena for factions that are in the succession race. Command Agriculture was initiated by His Excellency, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe. If you want to thank, you should thank him. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! By the door there. Hon. Zwizwai, I think the correction is accepted but you read too much and gone further to talk about factions. I do not think Hon. Chinotimba was speaking from that position. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order! Hon. Members, I shall not allow some points of order because this is time for your questions. I think I have been a bit unprocedural, I did not ask for any notices of motions. Are there any notices of motions? If there are none, we can proceed.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
+HON. NKOMO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is a
point of privileges….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Go straight to your question. Where is it going?
+HON. MALAKI NKOMO: What I wanted to ask Hon. Speaker
is, some of us would want to hear what is being said in Parliament…
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member please sit down. All of
you sit down. Once I say that ask your question, Hon. Nkomo, please go straight and ask a question that is directed to the Hon. Minister who is right here. Can you go ahead and ask your question?
+HON. MALAKI NKOMO: The question I wanted to ask is that
we would want to hear what is being said in Parliament, however, because of the noise, some of us end up not hearing anything. Is it not possible for something to be done concerning this issue, that is where my question is.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I have heard you, we
will do something about it.
+HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, Hon. Kasukuwere.
Hon. Zindi having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please take your seat.
HON. ZINDI: Suddenly, Hon. Samukange has taken my seat –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
+HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to direct my question to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. I would like to know what Government policy is concerning implementing Government policies in small towns. What makes me ask this question is that in the past we asked what Government policy says concerning the employment of people by
Government in smaller towns. However, the answer that the Hon. Member gave us concerning that policy is not what is actually taking place on the ground. What happens is that different councillors in different towns end up hiring their own people from their political parties. That is not what Government policy says. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker, I have heard him – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Minister, please answer in Ndebele.] - I have understood him but I cannot answer in Ndebele.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Please, go ahead Minister.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank
Hon. Mlilo for his question on council workers. I will start with the Constitution, it is against discrimination. If he has information as regards discriminatory tendencies, it will be good for him to put it in writing so that we can look into it. No one can be denied employment as a result of their political affiliation; we need full information so that we can investigate the issue. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
+HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to ask the Minister, what has Government done to make sure that there are people from his Ministry who are send to ensure that Government policies are followed on the ground.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Speech not recorded due to technical
fault.
+HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question
to the Minister is, he said that the Constitution does not discriminate on partisan grounds when employing. Why is it that your Ministry, when council has employed someone capable of his duties - like in the case of the Town Clerk of Harare, why did you bar the employment of the Town Clerk opting for someone from your political party ZANU PF? Please clarify on that.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister said if you have incidents that are occurring, as MPs, you must report to his office.
HON. MUNENGAMI: These are factual things and he is actually very much aware that at one time City of Harare employed a Town Clerk which he as a Minister refused to accept. So that is the same question which I am asking him – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I think he is very clear. You are not debating an individual, we are talking of policy issues. All Members of Parliament who have a complaint and can actually confirm, approach the Ministry with those facts – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister pertaining to the question asked by Hon. Mlilo which is a question relating to the power..
THE HON. SPEAKER: Ask your question please.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, my supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that issues of employment are some of the issues that are given to the province and autonomous status of local authorities. Your response was such that you are able to intervene...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, you do not debate the reply; you ask a supplementary question, full stop.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, by interfering in the issues of how local authorities employ people especially those of low grades...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, ask your supplementary
question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: That is what I am asking Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, you are making a statement. Ask your question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, my supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is - will your Ministrynot be interfering with the province of local authorities by interfering with issues of employment especially of junior employees in local authorities as asked by my colleague? I thank you.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question and just to remind him that the Urban Councils Act guide the operations of our local authorities in the country and the councils are a creature of our legislation. As Minister, I have a responsibility to ensure that all that happens in the local authorities is in terms of the law; in terms of employment and all other areas…..
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Mashayamombe,
Hon. Mashayamombe, if you are not interested in the debate you can leave the House.
HON. KASUKUWERE: In other words Mr. Speaker, councils
are not a state within a state. We are governed by laws which give the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing the authority to superintend and supervise activities of local authorities and that is a broad responsibility. Whatever we do is in terms of the law.
Local authorities are not autonomous or states within the country of Zimbabwe.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
Considering that we only have a few women in this House, we feel that when they stand up and you recognise three male Members of
Parliament forgetting your female Members of Parliament – we feel that gender parity is not taking place –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, order! This is not an arena for popular posturing – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaaaaaaah.] –When I looked – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaaaaaaah.] – Order, order! Those who asked supplementary questions were all male; the majority of them on my left. You do not expect me to wait until a female Member of Parliament rises. So, you have to open your eyes and see that there is someone who has not been recognised then your observation is justified but the points of order that arose came from male Hon. Members.
HON. DR. CHIMEDZA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development…
HON. ZINDI: On a point of order…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will come to you.
HON. ZINDI: But it is in relation to what Hon. Nyamupinga has
just raised.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will come to you.
HON. DR. CHIMEDZA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development but seeing that he is not here and it is related to public service, I will direct it to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services.
Money is deducted from civil servants’ salaries every month for their medical aid. From the last time we checked, most of the money had not been remitted. Public Service Medical Aid Society is owed almost $90 million by Government. As a result, service providers to Public Service are owed over a $150 million. Hospitals and pharmacies have been closed and laboratories are struggling. We are losing jobs in that sector and we are creating jobs for Indians. People are now moving to India because we are starving our own system with the money that we owe. When are we going to settle the bill for Premier Service Medical Aid Society so that we capacitate them to pay service providers and then we bring our private health system up to scratch?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): I would like to thank
the Hon. Member for a very good observation and question.
However, my Ministry is not responsible for remittance of payments to service providers. I will follow up the issue with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to find out what the latest status is on Premier Service Medical Aid Society.
HON. MPARIWA: With all due respect Hon. Speaker, I am not contesting what you have said but I think when Hon. Nyamupinga stood up; she was not posturing. I did not see her heels. She was standing even obstructed by other members. Just to put the record straight, when we rise in Parliament to speak on behalf of the people, we present women, the elderly and families. As women, you must take us seriously. It is offensive to say the least. I thank you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, order! Order! Order!
Order! Order! Hon. Chimedza.
HON. DR. CHIMEDZA: My apologies Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon Mpariwa, if the Hon.
Speaker’s language was a bit harsh, I apologise.
HON. DR. CHIMEDZA: I directed the question to the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services because the employees are under this Ministry. As such, I think the Minister should be at the pulse of what is happening with this issue. If the money is being paid, you should have discussed with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. It should concern you and we need some sort of idea that this thing is on the radar of both Ministers and they are working on it.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): With all due respect
Mr. Speaker, the question was directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and I gave the facts as I know them. The issue of Premier Medical Service – it is not the only service provider that has not been paid. We are aware of the current liquidity challenges and I am not here to say it will be today or tomorrow. I have other equally important issues which require the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, hence I have said I will follow through to find out the latest status on the issue.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, your apology
is accepted. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services Hon. Mupfumira. I want to find out if as Government you are also looking into the pensions that people receive from NSSA upon reaching 60 years. We are aware that companies are shutting down when workers are 40 or 50 years of age, and those that are at 50 are no longer employable; are they going to wait for another 10 years before they receive their pension and in the meantime the children are not going to school and they have nothing to feed the children with. Are you also going to look at the revision of pensionable age to 60 years so that they be reduced? Thank you Mr. Speaker.
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr.
Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for her question and comments. Firstly, we are very much aware that the amounts received by people on pension are meagre and we are working to ensure that within the next few months, they receive reasonable amounts.
Secondly Mr. Speaker, on the issue of age, this should be looked into holistically and not just to NSSA or that we should reduce the pensionable age from 60 for 50; we will bring that to Parliament. We will bring in documentation that would determine the pensionable age of workers whether it is 50 years or whether it is going to be 60 or 70 years before Parliament for its consideration. At the moment however, we are working with what is legally in the law. I thank you.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- May I be heard in silence please? Thank you for the time that you have given me to ask my supplementary question to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services on the question that was posed. I wanted to find out that, when you look into the issue of pensionable age, it might take a bit of time. I was of the belief that those that have not yet reached the pensionable age and are still capable of working, can you not give them loans from your bank so that they can be able to do their projects and earn their pension. Is that not possible?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Matambanadzo,
please ask a question.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: I had already given my
supplementary question. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question to the Hon. Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services is that, is it not possible that those that are younger and who have been retrenched or are no longer employed as a result of the closure of their companies and have been pension contributors but have not yet reached the pensionable age; can they not be given loans from the NSSA Bank that you recently opened so that they can start projects? By so doing, you will be supporting indigenisation. I thank you.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I thank the Hon.
Member for the question. The Hon. Member’s suggestion is good. As NSSA, we have a department that is responsible for disbursing loans. They go through small to medium enterprises and we have set aside funds for retrenchees in that regard, they are entitled to loans so that they can come up with projects that are legal. Anyone can go and open an account at the National Building Society, it is legal. We have set aside some funding so that they can start their own projects as retrenchees. I thank you.
*HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the
Minister whether it is a requirement that I am supposed to go under the banner of SMEs or that as a retrenchee in my own right, I should simply go there and access a loan without any other conditions or strings attached. Is it conditional I should only go through SMEs? That is what I want the Minister to explain because it is my right as a worker.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, the issue here is
that there are experts and several Government departments that are involved. We have given money to people that deal with SMEs. There are processes which need to be followed so as to ensure that the loans that are disbursed can be serviced. We are not a financial institution and therefore, we will give SEDCO. They are the experts that disburse that amount. Go through SEDCO and access loans. They look at the viability of your project because there are others that were given loans for projects but they never repaid the loans. It is up to you to go and apply and be able to access these loans. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: Hon. Speaker, I rise to seek clarification arising from the response of the Minister. I immediately got worried to know that, if I am to go by the response of the Minister, they do not have the capacity to be able to loan people who should access loans from the bank. I was of the opinion that they have established a bank which has got the capacity to be able to disburse and give loans to whoever wants to access the loans from the National Building Society. can I have clarification and confirmation that they do not have the capacity to loan, hence to give loans through SMEs?
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think I was
very clear in my earlier response. We have the bank which I said anybody can go and loan from the bank. I did not say they are not capable but I said NSSA, as an institution does not give loans to individuals. The bank is there and anybody is allowed to go and get a loan depending on certain credit checks which will be done but there is a special fund for retrenchment which is not the NBS. As far as the bank is concerned, anyone is free to go and access loans if they so wish, anybody.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would want to
thank the Minister for her responses. Minister, you said you are looking at increasing the $60. My question is what levels are you going to be looking at and when?
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for the
question. My response is that the current board’s objective is that we should give people a livable pension. Secondly, we should improve the benefits that we are giving to the people. I am happy to announce that from 1st April, 2017 we started on funeral benefits for members and whether pensioners. Apart from the $300 that was being disbursed as funeral benefit, we are now going to be looking at the provision of a casket, transport and all the requirements. If you already had a policy, $500 is immediately disbursed as cash over and above the $300 that they were being given. It is good enough.
On the issue of money, I made a statement earlier on that we have to increase to a livable pension. It is a process and not an overnight event. NSSA has been around for years and the $60 was the figure. There is an actuarial evaluation process which will be through by June, that will show us where we will get to. We are doing an evaluation and I am hoping certainly by September, 2017 we should have not less than $100. End of the year, I am saying at least $150. My wish is that we keep on increasing the livable pension of our pensioners. Already, the funeral benefit is functional so we have people’s interests at heart, that is why you saw us changing things in all the areas that NSSA has investments. We have been following them up. We do not want people to pay extra in contributions but they must be paid more.
The National Health Insurance that is being talked about, we want to introduce it with the existing funds, not to have members contributing more. If we manage it properly, we should be able to introduce the National Health Insurance. Thank you Mr. Speaker and I hope I am
clear.
*HON. MUZONDIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development. Minister, what plans do you have to give grants to students especially university and college students?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): I thank the Hon. Member for such a good question. At the moment Government has fiscal constraints and we can, therefore, not reinstate the granting of grants to the education sector students in conjunction with the Reserve Bank, we are looking at ways to come up with loans but we cannot disburse grants at the moment. We are looking forward to disbursing loans. The RBZ has already advertised for financiers that can give such loans at low premiums so that students can be able to pay for their tuition and accommodation fees. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It has been brought to my attention by
Hon. Gonese that I did not announce the names of the Hon. Ministers who sought leave of absence in terms of our Standing Orders. Hon.
Members, the Hon. Ministers are as follows:
Hon. Dr. Dokora, Hon. Mandiwanzira, Hon. Mabuwa, Hon. T.
Muzenda, Hon. Prof – [ HON. ZWIZWAI: The list is bogus Mr. Speaker because Hon. Mabuwa is here. It is a rigged list.] – Order, order. Order please, I have not finished. I think Hon. Mabuwa must be commended. She was supposed to have travelled, unfortunately, because of certain circumstances, she has to travel next week. Inspite of having advised us, she decided to be here in Parliament, we commend that – [HON. MEMBERS:Hear, hear.] –
Can I proceed? The next one is Hon. Prof. Moyo, Hon. Mushowe,
Hon. Mlambo, Hon. A. Ndhlovu, Hon. A. Damasane, Hon. Eng.
Madanha and Hon. Mguni.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise on a matter of privilege arising from that announcement. Over time, we have had these announcements being made of the Hon. Ministers who would have sought leave of absence. The Hon. Speaker is aware that in terms of our Standing Orders, there is a specific provision in terms of Standing Order No. 63, whereby those Members who have not sought leave are supposed to be charged with contempt of Parliament. I know Mr. Speaker, this has been raised before in this august House, but I think that it has now taken ordinately long period of time without any specific action being taken. The Chair has advised us that His Excellency, the President has been informed about this problem.
We have also been given assurance by the Hon. Vice President, who is the Leader of Government business that he advised Ministers at
Cabinet about the need for them to attend Parliament in compliance with Section 107 of our Constitution. However Mr. Speaker, I believe that time has now come for Parliament to show its teeth. We have got the powers enshrined in our Standing Orders and I believe that mechanisms must be put in place. At this point in time, I am suggesting that a
Privileges Committee be set up in terms of which all those truant Ministers who have not been seeking the leave of the Speaker, who have not been seeking leave of absence, can be brought to account. They can be given an opportunity to explain themselves and they have to appear before that privileges committee which will then investigate and interrogate the issues so that those who are to be found guilty can be punished appropriately as provided for in terms of the Standing Orders. That is my motion Mr. Speaker that we set up a privileges committee so that this committee can interrogate. The Ministers can explain themselves as to why they have not been seeking the leave of absence –
[HON. MEMBERS:Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. In addition, my apologies.
The two Vice Presidents and Hon. Mumbengegwi are with the visiting King. It could be perennial but as foreign Minister, he travels a lot. The second aspect I want to address myself to is what Hon. Gonese has raised. I think we cannot start by constituting a committee now. We need to do some administrative audit and identify those that need to be interrogated. To suggest a privileges committee now, I do not think it is proper.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker and Good Afternoon. My supplementary question is, when the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education responded, he said that plans are underway for students to access loans so that they can go to school because Government cannot come up with grants. If one is given a loan, once you have used the loan, you should repay it. Once these students have been granted the loans and they go to school, is there a waiver to the period that they need to repay the loan after completion of their studies because one can go to school, be educated, complete their studies but may even reach the retirement age before they are employed. Are they going to be secured in terms of their loan repayments after they would have acquired their degrees and after the Government would have created the 2.2 million jobs? Is there any such plans?
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for such a pertinent question. As I have earlier on said, the RBZ and the Ministry of Finance are working on the modalities so that we can have discussions with financiers so that the students can be assisted in that regard at tertiary institutions and colleges. This is still under consideration. Government and financiers are going to come up with an agreement that will be user friendly to the students upon their attaining their degrees and once they attain employment. The modalities are going to be worked out and it is work in progress. The RBZ advertised two days ago. I take his points he has given us and the ideas to look into the situation and how best we assist them. We accept the
Hon. Member’s contribution so that it becomes easier for both the country and our students. I thank you.
*HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Our spirits have been lifted when the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education said the loans could be accessed in August this year. I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister if that will still be possible, the timelines for the disbursements of loans in August this year are they likely to be achieved? I thank you.
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for the question. Our plans with the Ministry of Finance and the RBZ, we hope that when the September semester starts, we would want to be in a position to be disbursing these funds. So we hit the ground running this last year so that the students can access these loans in September. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Members at the front bench, the consultations are making noise. Please, the questions are coming to the Ministers and yet you are talking to the Ministers. How do they hear what is being asked?
HON. KHUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce. Madam Speaker, the cash crisis has become more defined and bond notes have added to that crisis. The business community is the hardest hit because they are failing to pay their foreign suppliers, resulting in the majority of them shutting down. What is the Ministry doing in conjunction with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank to make sure that businesses have access to foreign currency because theoretically, right now as we speak, bank accounts reflect that there is money when in actual fact the money is not there. So, what is Government doing to make sure that businesses have access to foreign currency? At the same time, it is not clear in what currency the money is, whether it is in bond notes or United States Dollars. So, I would like to know what the Ministry is doing in conjunction with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank Governor to see to it that businesses have access to foreign currency so that they are able to pay for their foreign supplies. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking this very important question regarding shortage of foreign currency in our nostro accounts as we acquire raw material and equipment. I would like to inform the House that there is a standing committee that has been created in the Ministry and it is spearheaded by the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mukwangwariwa, may
you please leave the House.
HON. ZWIZWAI: Go out!
Hon. Mukwangwariwa walked out of the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, you can as
well go out – [Laughter.]-
HON. MABUWA: That special committee is responsible for liaising and getting information from industries on a case by case basis and what we did is we used to meet weekly, but now the Committee is meeting twice a week to make sure that we facilitate the prioritisation and payment of foreign acquired raw material, as well as the acquisition of equipment.
This Committee is also responsible for the implementation of Statutory Instrument Number 6 which talks to the wavering of duty and the wavering of all duties that are due on equipment supplies.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker for such a good answer to such a good question that was posed by Vice President Khupe. From what we saw written by the IMF a few weeks ago...
*HON. MANDIPAKA: I seek clarification from Hon. Advocate
Chamisa. He said the Vice President and not the Vice President of the MDC. He should state it in full – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Zwizwai, you have got to respect yourself.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I withdraw my statement and clarify. I thank you Hon. Mandipaka for the clarity that you seek - the good question that was posed by the Vice President of the outgoing Prime Minister of the Inclusive Government who is Hon. Thokozani Khupe. My question is that the IMF has talked about a lot of issues in terms of our economy and it is said that it is has shown that our economy was in the doldrums or that the economic situation was now bad, especially the lack of cash in the banks and that pensioners are having difficulties in accessing their money.
My question is as a result of what the IMF has said, Madam Speaker, as Government, what are we doing about it to rectify the problems that were raised?
*HON. MUPFUMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. May
he please ask the question instead of giving us a lecture. I thank you.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I was saying, based on what the IMF
said, what are we doing about it as a country to correct the issue that shows that our economy has declined? It has resulted in the suffering of the majority of the people. Teachers are suffering and nurses are suffering. What can we do in terms of the business and the economy? I thank you.
* HON. MABUWA: Thank you for the question that has been asked by the Hon. Member. It is a pertinent question which is a follow up with regards to the steps the Government can take. Maybe he read about the opinion of the International Monetary Fund which expresses their view point.
The IMF, throughout the years, has been known as an expert and when they give expert evidence the world listens. Once the world listens, what happens is that it is followed and it is accepted that this is the state in which our economy is in. It may be something that may bother each and every country that the IMF has given their expert opinion on. It is based on their expertise and they gave their expertise as regards each country. The interpretation that we derive from their opinion is applied according to our own circumstances. It increases our country risk factor resulting in us carrying out environmental scanning for our country to come up with measures.
We have a relationship that we are mending with the IMF and the same is being done for the World Bank. We are doing this to mitigate our country’s risk factors, go further and look at how best we can do and we then can decide to also give our own side of view and ask them to check our records to see what is happening. We will come up with measures to look into issues that would have been raised by the IMF.
We will also look at our relationship as Africa and see what we should do to come up with mitigatory strategies, hence you then find out that we will come here in Parliament and request that Zimbabwe be allowed to be a member of Africa Trade Insurance. These are measures that we are taking to mitigate our country risk factors so that Zimbabwe is seen to be doing something when it experiences such issues. We also revive our relationship with Afrexim Bank as well as the PTA bank, which is now the Trade and Investment Bank and other banks that are in Africa. They then can go and present our case which tends to mitigate the reports by the IMF which says that our financial sector has gone down so that we can have an A rating for financial sector so that we use other means to access. I thank you.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural?
Development. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy as regards people that are involved in road accidents and destroy the infrastructure.
They also destroy bridges and solar lights in the cities. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Mashayamombe for his pertinent question. I cannot give a response on this question. I request him to put the question in writing so that as an Hon. Member, he should be given a satisfactory answer. It needs to be researched so that I can eliminate operating in the dark. I thank you.
*HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, regarding the issue of the Brazil equipment. There are people who were given this equipment more than a year ago, because it was not sufficiently delivered and there were some parts that were missing. What is Government policy as regards repayment for such equipment? When are such people expected to repay for this equipment because when it was delivered, it was not complete. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Madam
Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member and really plead that he puts the question in writing so that I deal with the very specific areas.
*HON. MASHONGANYIKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Primary Education - [HON.
MEMBERS: Haapo!]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Do you not see
that the noise that we make waste a lot of time? Let me address her, not yourselves.
*HON. MASHONGANYIKA: Let me direct the question to the
Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development. My question is, what is Government policy as regards our Government schools where children are not paying school fees because they are failing to access cash? This is causing your new curriculum….
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May he not answer. Let me
advise you on that point Hon. Member. Please put your question in written form. If you want an oral answer, you can wait for next week.
Thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services.
Is it Government policy or is it in the Ministry’s policies that board members are removed from the board because they belong to certain organizations? The reason why I am asking this question is because of the ZCTU President who is being removed from the NSSA Board. Why is he being removed from the NSSA Board?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. It is
Government policy that boards are appointed and removed by a
Minister. It is also the NSSA Act that the board is tripartite; workers, employers and Government. It is also normal board requirements that confidentiality is kept within a board.
In terms of the Act, if a member carries acts of misconduct, the Minister can remove the member. It is not our policy to discriminate against any trade union. If we remove any member, we will request that particular organisation to give us new names, which is the normal procedure and that is what we will do. I thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
would like the Minister to clarify and shed more light; does it mean that the ZCTU President who is being removed committed a misconduct?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, that is too
personal and it is not a policy question. Order, Hon. Members. I was explaining to Hon. Sibanda that, it is too personal. If you need something of that nature, you can put the question in written form so that you get an explanation.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: My supplementary question has to do
with the rights that are in the Constitution, particularly Section 65 (2), that trade union leaders are supposed to be protected. This is not just a constitutional right but it is also a right that flows from ILO statutes that we are part to as member countries. Are we not violating the rights of a trade union leader who is legitimately exercising his responsibilities in terms of the law?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are we not coming to the
same question? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members, can we have order please, the Minister is answering.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
thank the Hon. Member. A board appointment is not an employment. There are certain requirements, rules and regulations and norms which are expected of any board member – [AN HON. MEMBER: Which are
those?] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: If a board member carries acts of
misconduct, if he does not work well within the board, the Minister is at liberty to remove the board member. It is not employment. ILO - we are talking about employment. Boards are at the pleasure of whoever the appointing authorities is, so I am not talking about – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: We are not talking about people who are working Hon. Speaker – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Imimi Minister maka appointwa.] – kunemitemo.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, order.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: There are certain laws that need to be
followed. In this House, you send people that are misbehaving out of the House. If the people do not behave in formal etiquette, we can dismiss them. I like all my trade unions and we like people that conform to corporate governance norms and ethics. This is not a job where you can be employed to be a board member.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members can
you please take your seats, I am giving an order and if I call for order, I will be referring to you all to take your seats.
HON. ZINDI: I move that time for Questions Without Notice be extended.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I object.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Someone is objecting – [AN. HON. ZWIZWAI: Hazvigone kuti munhu wamadzinga muHouse ouya oobjecta.] – Hon. Zwizwai, you do not know why I send him outside.
HON. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Some of these members have got nothing to say. They have not even asked one question. He does not represent anyone in this House. He has not even bothered himself to ask even one question. That is why he is always objecting, hapana kana mubvunzo one waunobvunza iwewe. Kudhara wanzi buda panze, he has not even said a thing in this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we have order Hon. Chief Whip – [HON. GONESE: Iye munhu wamadzinga uyu.] – Yes, I ordered him to come back – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
HON. GONESE: On a matter of privilege Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the matter of
privilege?
HON. GONESE: The matter of privilege arises from the fact –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order.
HON. GONESE: The matter of privilege arises from the fact that
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: I had said the matter of privilege rises from the fact that you had specifically nominated Hon. Members, I think it was Hon. Masuku, Hon. Tshuma, you had nominated them that they were going to ask questions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member,
HON. GONESE: I am just raising it Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you are
just delaying us. I had nominated them but I cannot extend the time when the time is over. No, we cannot have that. Hon. Gonese, why are you doing that? – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Kupolling station vanovhara pane munhu wekupedzisira nyangwe 7 dzachaya.] – Are we at a polling station? – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Ko vanhu varikuiteiko apo?] –
Order Hon. Members, what are you doing there? Hon. Members who are not Ministers, please leave the front bench. I am asking you those who are not Ministers, please leave the front bench, you are confusing people here. That is too much noise. How can we proceed with business of the House? – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Mliswa, you see what is happening there?
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker on deferring question 1, I just want to raise an issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – but this time listen to me.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, order please! HON. GONESE: But Madam Speaker, I have a point.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I have made a ruling, you cannot just speak – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I just
wanted to raise the point that this question was deferred since the 15th of
March which means to say that it has been on the Order...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Which one?
HON. GONESE: Question No. 1. If you look at the time when it was raised, it was deferred since the 15th of March and it has been continuously deferred. You are aware Madam Speaker that in respect of Written Questions, even if the relevant Minister is not here, the Ministry officials can prepare a written response because it is still on notice. Last week Hon. Chidhakwa came to read answers on behalf of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. So, that is the point that I am raising that we should not have questions which take more than two months before they are responded to because they can be submitted as Written Answers to Questions with Notice and so, the Minister could have delegated another Minister to respond.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have got a very valid point but I think last time when Hon. Chidhakwa was here, the Hon.
Member was not in that time, this is what happened – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, it is okay, I take your point.
– [AN. HON. MEMBER: Next time musatanga kuattaka vanhu Madam
Speaker.] – You cannot just stand up and start talking whilst I am in the
Chair. – [HON. MUPFUMI: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mupfumi, this is why I
am asking those who are not Ministers not to sit there – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order. It is quite sad that we attack the Executive for not being here to respond, but there are Members of Parliament who are responsible for the questions on the
Order Paper who are not here. They equally have not asked for leave.
We cannot continue like this. They do not take this House seriously and I think with due respect, Minister Kasukuwere is here to respond to these questions. It is equally important for you as the Chair to try and zero in on these Ministers, especially those from ZANU PF who only appear when there are functions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa.
Hon. Mliswa has a valid point of order, especially those on my right, you will have to respect the House and also support the Ministers.
CONSTRUCTION OF MUPFURE, NYAGAMBU, DZUMBUNU
AND MARIRANGWE BRIDGES IN MHONDORO-MUBAIRA
CONSTITUENCY
- HON. GANGARAHWE asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to indicate when the Ministry would construct Mupfure, Nyagambu, Dzumbunu and Marirangwe bridges along skyline road in Mhondoro – Mubaira Constituency which have been rendered impassable by the heavy rains received this year and in view of the fact that it was indicated in January, 2017 that they would be reconstructed under emergency funding and that a team of engineers from the Ministry has already been sent to assess Mupfure and
Nyagambu bridges and a Bill of Quantities.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Mupfure, Nyagambu, Dzumbunu and Marirangwe
Bridges along Skyline-Mubaira road are going to be attended to in the second phase of the emergency road works programme.
The emergency works were categorized into phases according to the urgency and to enable Government to harness the funding that is required to carry out the works. The most urgent work formed phase 1 (60 days) and this phase is now almost halfway through. As soon as this is completed, funding will be availed for the second phase. The bridge repairs will be done in this second phase over a period of 180 days. I thank you.
RESUMPTION OF ROAD CONSTRUCTION IN MHONDORO-
MUBAIRA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. GANGARAHWE asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to state when road construction under the Ministry in Mhondoro – Mubaira Constituency would resume, considering that the re-grading exercise was interrupted by the heavy rains in February 2017 which further worsened the state of the roads.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is true that grading of the Skyline-Mubaira-Chegutu road which traverses Mashonaland East and West Provinces was suspended due to the heavy rains. Grading in the Mashonaland East section of the road resumed last week and 5 km has been covered so far. The grading of the road in Mashonaland West Province is programmed for the second phase which will start after the completion of the current phase one works. Phase one will be completed in about a month’s time.
I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before we proceed with
questions, I just want to remind Hon. Members that they cannot attend to cellphones here in Parliament, please. You can go outside. Can you hear me? I do not want to send people outside -[AN HON. MEMBER:
Dorcas!] – Why are you lifting up your hand –[AN HON. MEMBER:
You want to send the Minister out?] – which Minister now? -[AN HON.
MEMBER: Kasukuwere!]- Aah no. Why Minister Kasukuwere?
Unodenha stereki iwewe.
ROADS REPAIRED TO DATE FOLLOWING DECLARATION OF
STATE OF DISASTER
- HON. N. MGUNI asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House which roads have been repaired to date using the millions of dollars set aside for that purpose, following the declaration of the state of disaster on the country’s roads.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Mr. Speaker Sir, since the declaration of state of disaster on our roads in February 2017, the Government mobilised $14.5 million dollars which was readily disbursed to the Department of Roads for the State Roads Emergency Rehabilitation Programme which commenced on the 13th of March 2017. The progress of the programme in brief is as follows:
- Progress of the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme
1.1. State Roads
Manicaland Province
Completed Projects
- Stapleford Road: Washed away section and culvert construction completed.
- Honde-Valley Road: Washed away sections completed and opened to traffic.
Mashonaland Central Province
Completed Projects
- Centenary-Gutsa Road: Washed away section repairs have been completed.
- Katarira-Mahuwe Road: Repair and upgrading of culverts, progress is at 55% complete.
Mashonaland East Province
Completed Projects
- Wedza-Mutiweshir-Goneso washaway completed.
- Murewa-Madicheche box culvert and culvert repair completed.
Mashonaland West Province
Ongoing Projects
- Harare-Chirundu damaged sections: Pothole patching and shoulder re-gravelling, progress is at 65% complete. Bush clearing is at 45%
- Chegutu-Chinhoyi: Pothole patching and routine maintenance activities, progress is at 50% complete.
- Lionsden-Mhangura: Bush clearing and pothole patching is at
62% complete.
Masvingo Province Completed Projects
- Moodies Pass-Mushongwe: Drift Construction was completed.
- Makambe-Malipati: Construction of the retaining wall is now completed.
- Bondolfi-Renco- Causeway, construction was completed,
- Makwi-Neshuro: pipe culvert construction was completed.
Matabeleland North Province: Completed Projects Lonely-Motapa Road: shoulder grading has been completed.
Matabeleland South Province: Completed Projects
- Ntepe-Mbizo: erosion protection works have been completed,
- Old Gwanda Road: backfilling of washaways has been completed.
Midlands Province; Completed Projects
- Gwehava-Sai Loop Road: Work on damaged pipe Drifts at
Chipanangare has been completed,
- Gungubane Mangava Road: drift repairs have been completed at the 100 Km. peg,
- West Nicholson Mberengwa: Temporary approaches at
Mwenezi Bridge have been completed.
1.2 Urban Roads
Repair work on urban roads is continuing, with good progress in the major routes around Harare and work commencing in other urban areas. Pothole patching has been the main focus and below is a brief report on surfaced roads for the major cities.
City of Harare: Completed Projects:
- The Chase road has been completely patched,
- Stonechart Lane,
- Sunridge Road,
- Mabvuku Drive,
- Donnybrooke Way,
- Tynwald road and other roads which had not been listed here which I know had been done but that was before the compilation of this list had been done.
City of Bulawayo: Completed Projects
- Khami Road,
- Nketa Drive,
- Steelworks Road,
- Five Street. Rural Roads:
Funding has also been released to the District Development Fund (DDF) and Rural District Councils (RDCs), and considerable repair work has been done.
Manicaland Province: Completed Projects
This is the work of RDCs
- Shinja Road: Piped drift has been repaired,
- Bande-Avila Road: Damaged culverts have been repaired,
- Govakova- Village 50 West: Road repairs have been completed,
- Mandeya Loop Road: Culvert construction has been completed,
- Bazely-Mwandiyambira: Grading has been completed.
Mashonaland Central Province: Completed Projects:
- Gweshe-Katena: Drift repairs have been completed,
- Kahumwe-Kapatamu: Damaged sections have been repaired,
- Bakasa-Kadzimwenje: 15 Km. of grading have been completed,
- Chiswiti-Dande: Mupamhadzi Causeway has been repaired, 5) Matope-Mutondwe: Pavement repairs have been completed,
6) Chishapa road: Culvert repairs have been completed.
Mashonaland East Province: Completed Projects:
- Chivhu-Zimhondi: Pavement repairs have been completed,
- Zvichemo Ruzvidzo: Grading has been completed, 3) Bangauya-Chindoko: Grading has been completed, 4) Munyawiri-Pote: Grading has been completed.
Mashonaland West Province: Completed Projects:
- Vuti East road: Nyangahwe piped drift has been repaired,
- Johanadale-Lowood: Damaged piped drift has been repaired, 3) Zumbare-Chigaro: 23 Km. of the pavement have been repaired,
4) Manyewe-Bururu: 27 Km. have been repaired.
Masvingo Province: Completed Projects:
1) Padare-Chipinda: Piped drift repairs have been completed, 2) Neshuro-Dinhe: Culvert repairs were completed,
- Kono-Matambwe: Piped drift approaches were completed,
- Masekesa-Gudo: Drift repairs have been completed,
- Veza-Bangala: Culvert repairs have been completed.
Matabeleland North Province: Completed Projects:
- Gobi-Lisulu-Sibombela: Piped drift and culvert repairs have been completed,
- Litshe Road: Damaged culvert has been repaired,
- Rest Camp-Majiji: Construction of the collapsed culvert has been completed,
- Nkayi-Tshalalisa: Damaged culverts and drift have been repaired,
- Nkunzi-Guswini: Backfilling of gullies and drift repairs have been completed
Matabeleland South Province: Completed Projects:
- Old Machuchuti-Tule: 14 Kms. of grading have been completed,
- Kumbudzi-Mtshabezi: 11 Kms. of grading have been completed,
- Kafusi-Mapate Bridge: Repairs have been completed,
- Sontala-Mbembeswana: 24 Kms. of grading have been completed
- Makado-Malusungane: 18 Kms. of grading have been completed.
Midlands Province: Completed Projects:
- Chimbandi-Chireya: Culver construction has been completed,
- Manot-Mbungu road: Re-gravelling of the affected sections has been completed,
- Donga-Pakame: Piped bridge repairs have been completed,
- Python-Donsa Road: Reclamation and backfilling of gullies has been completed,
- Mkoba-Dimbamiwa: Bridge approach has been repaired,
- Siboza-Pakame: Nyagambu Bridge repairs have been completed.
These are some of the projects that have been completed with the money that was allocated to us, the $14.5 million that the Hon. Member wanted to know about. The works are continuing and we are now on Phase 2 of the project. So, most of the roads are going to be attended to.
I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. If you look at how Tafara Way was repaired, Tafara Way is the main road between Tafara and Mabvuku and that is the road used by most transporters – buses, lorries et cetera but, although it was repaired, that road is already bad. But, if you look at the one in Mt. Pleasant, it was well repaired and it can take quite a number of months for it to be damaged. So, what really causes the fact that some roads are properly repaired and others are not? Is it the calibre of people who stay there?
*HON. DR. GUMBO: I want to thank Hon. Maridadi for the question that he raised for me to explain the position. Hon. Speaker, when we called for an emergency on the state of our roads, we worked with the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing Hon. Kasukuwere, and we requested His Excellency the President to declare it as a disaster, of which he did. But, we also requested for SPB so that we bypass the tender procedure and we use those companies that are available in order for us to repair the roads in the whole country. It is not the only road that is bad. I also realise that Chiremba Road was not properly repaired. Those who are not repairing those roads properly are the City of Harare – they are doing a shoddy job.
The other companies that I am talking about that repair the roads are doing well. We did not look at the social status of people, whether they are wealthy or not, as a Ministry we do not consider the social status. As a Ministry, our aim is to construct wider roads for areas where most people stay. I talked to ZINARA as the Minister of Transport that they should engage City of Harare to ensure the roads are repaired well.
If we use Chiremba road, there is a problem before you even go a long distance. Our hope was that since the SPB has allowed us to take companies that are already there to address the road issue, these are the challenges that we have met. I agree with you and we are looking into it. We may decide to take away the tenders because it does not help in anyway. I thank you.
*HON. CHIBAYA: I want to thank you Madam Speaker for according me the opportunity to pose my question to Minister Gumbo. I want to thank you for the good work that you are doing as a Ministry. As you were explaining the roads that you have repaired, I did not hear you mention Gweru because I am sure in Gweru we have quite a number of relatives that you visit in Mkoba. What are you doing in Gweru Hon.
Minister?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, please go and
put your question in writing. I will not allow you to answer that question Minister because he is referring to a particular place. Can you put it in writing?
*HON. CHIBAYA: The question is saying that money was allocated to repair roads that were damaged by the heavy rains countrywide. My request is that he responds to my question.
HON. DR. GUMBO: Yes, the question that was raised was that $14, 5 million was disbursed and how did we utilise it looking at the roads countrywide. It is true we did it in phases in repairing those roads and we considered the badly damaged roads. We did not forget Mkoba and other towns. In urban areas, we work with the councils especially when we realise that they are facing challenges. The councils were getting money from ZINARA but it is inadequate for them to complete repairing all the roads, that is why we requested for a disaster fund. So, we will go to other urban areas as well.
Even in Harare, there are other areas with roads that have not yet been repaired. So, we did it in phases. Phase one has been completed and we are now going on phase two. We will try to ensure that our roads in the areas we stay are acceptable and safe.
*HON. MACHINGURA: Madam Speaker, I wanted to find out
that of the $14 million disbursed to repair roads, what criteria was used because the road from Tanganda to Chiredzi, which brings in a lot of money to the country, was left behind.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, you
segregated that road.
HON. DR. GUMBO: Madam Speaker, I thank the Hon. Member
for the question. Maybe I was not able to quite explain. I said we have three phases that we use to repair the roads. Firstly, the wash-aways that I talked about in rural areas were quite many. In the second phase, the road that he is talking about is not a road that can be repaired using the money that we have. It requires quite a lot of funding. As we speak right now, there are companies that we requested to give us quotations.
Let me explain by saying Madam Speaker that the companies we are taking, for us not to have problems with the Public Accounts Committee in their oversight, we said if an emergency is declared, then the companies bypass the SPB. This allows us to say if we are taking the road from Chiredzi, we get companies from that list on which they can compete among themselves as service providers. The company that wins the tender will repair the road. So, the road that you are talking about, I am aware of it and we have listed companies which have tendered to repair those roads. I want to enlighten all the Hon. Members in this House that I cannot give you a whole volume which is huge to show you how many roads we want to address. We are not looking at politics or provinces but we want to repair the roads in our country as Ministry of Transport without favour.
*HON. MLISWA: Minister, we want to thank you for the work that you are doing and where you have repaired you have surely done a good job but on the issue of companies; for the companies that are not performing well, I heard Hon. Maridadi talking of his area. He is saying that the City Council is the one that is giving those tenders. Can they not come in and remove that service provider and recommend a good company because they are responsible for the roads.
HON. DR. GUMBO: Mr. Speaker, I responded to that question. I said that there are areas that were repaired but we discovered that the poor roads were done by City Council. We said that and requested ZINARA to call those people to talk to them that they cannot proceed because at the end of the day, ZINARA is the one that pays. I responded to this before and I said that I know the roads that were done; the bad roads and we know which companies we will have given the tender. We have identified the roads. Sometimes the mixtures that were being used by the City of Harare were compromised. We complain when work is not done well and it cost us more to repair it.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Hon. Minister, I want to thank the Hon.
Minister for his explanation on the road mentioned by Hon. Machingura. Hon. Minister, my request is that the road that we are talking about, as we speak it is more than 110 km and it is a major highway. There is no road at all. My request is that, from your explanation Hon. Minister, now that you have stopped the official tender, when do you think you can commence the repairing of that road? I thank you.
*HON. DR. GUMBO: I want to thank Hon. Mutseyami for
requesting me to clarify. The road that he is talking about is a pertinent highway. It requires that we give the tender to a company that is good at road construction because of the traffic that moves along that road. I say that the tender process has been done. Because of the fact that I was busy and the challenges that I faced, I am not sure of the stages now. I still need to find out whether they have given out the tender for that and I would want that road to be attended to as soon as possible. Those people had to come and talk to us and they realised that it was on our plan because as Hon. Members, you have highlighted the challenges of that road. We are doing our best to ensure that we attend to that road as soon as possible. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order. Hon. Nduna, we cannot allow any further clarifications, we need to proceed with our work.
MEASURES TO RESOLVE THE CONFLICT BETWEEN KAROI
COMMUNITIES AND A CHINESE CONTRACTOR EXTRACTING
SAND FROM THE BADZE RIVER
- HON. KWARAMBA asked the Minister of Environment
Water and Climate to inform the House
- What measures the Government is taking to resolve the conflict between Karoi Communities and a Chinese contractor who is extracting sand from the Badze River resulting in environmental degradation and siltation of the river.
- What legal provisions are being used by the Chinese Contract in those operations given the fact that the Mines and Minerals Act only allows the mining operations on a Joint Venture Agreement with
Government?
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Mr. Speaker Sir, commercial sand extraction is regulated under the Environmental
Management Act, Chapter 20:27 as read with Statutory Instrument 3 of 2011. It therefore follows that sand extraction requires a licence before such activities are undertaken. The person or persons engaging in sand extraction should submit an Environmental Management Plan to the Agency for approval. The plan specifies economic, environmental and socio-cultural considerations which in this case would avert conflict with local communities and lead to continuous rehabilitation of the mined out areas to avoid degradation and siltation of the rivers.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is disheartening to note that the Chinese contractor is operating outside the provisions of the national laws. In this case, the contractor has been issued with an environmental protection order in terms of Section 37 (4) (b) of the Environmental Management Act, Chapter 20:27. The order directed the contractor to cease operations and abide by the provisions of the law meant to avoid land degradation, siltation and conflict with the locals by consulting and involving them on the work at hand. The inclusion of locals is a key facet in sustainability of any project.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I need to highlight that the project at hand is not prescribed as a mining project in terms of the mining laws of the country. The sand being mined is not classified in this case as a mineral and does not fall under any provisions of the mining regulations. Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministry is committed to ensuring sustainability in all projects that are undertaken in the country with communities having a say in how these projects are undertaken.
HON. KHUPE: What is your Ministry doing to make sure that social corporate responsibility is adhered to? If you look at this Chinese company in question, it is extracting sand, causing environmental degradation and siltation which is a big disadvantage to the communities. What is your Ministry doing to ensure that this particular company ploughs back to the communities so that they benefit from their sand which is being taken by this company?
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. I am sure this speaks a lot to the issues to do with how communities can benefit from their national resources. I think this is a question that has been addressed and is being addressed. In terms of our empowerment laws, in terms of the community trust and where possible, I think the Ministry of Mines has also been encouraging communities alongside the partners, who are in this case the companies, to have a mutually beneficial relationship that should see the communities benefiting from their resources which are extracted in mining in those areas.
To that extend Mr. Speaker, what I would also do is to put this question forward and ensure that EMA fully ensures that there is compliance and work together with other sister Ministries to ensure that communities do benefit. This has been a long standing policy position of our Government that the people must benefit, be it the mineral resources or any other resources that is obtained in the communities. I thank you.
*HON. MLISWA: My supplementary question is on the issue when the Chinese do their mining, they do not rehabilitate the environment. There will be dams and pits and people lose their livestock and even children lose their lives. I have seen that in my Ward 13 that the Chinese have destroyed this country. Where is the
Environmental Management Authority and what is your Government policy. There is need for whoever who excavates to fill the hole after doing their mining. What are you doing, especially to these Chinese companies, they have destroyed our country? I thank you.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Let me thank Hon. Mliswa for his supplementary question in support of what Hon. Khupe has said. The companies that have been mining in our country are many. Several nationals have done mining in our country. If you go to Masvingo at Mvuma shopping centre, you will see the dumpsites. If you go to Dorowa, you will see the same thing. We should not be blaming the Chinese alone. Let us look at this case in its entirety. All those that are into mining should be able to do sustainable mining which is good for the community.
Secondly, there is the issue of the pits that are left uncovered. The agency for Environmental Management (EMA) should ensure that they look into such issues. The issue is going to be under consideration in the Mines and Mining Amendment Bill where a fund is going to be set up to ensure that after they will have completed their mining, the fund will be able to rehabilitate the environment. Government agreed that we should have such a fund called the Environmental Reclamation Fund which will be controlled by the Ministry of Mines.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the Minister who is standing in for the Minister of Environment and Water, Hon. Muchinguri, whether they are seeing it easier to take two steps to have an Infrastructure Development programme for the community; so that those that are mining within a certain community would leave something beneficial to the community such as roads, clinics and hospitals so that they benefit after the miners will have left.
Secondly, is it not possible that when we come up with these mines, we do not look at looting of our minerals but that we have a city, a town or a residential place of some sort or habitat so that once the mining activity ends, the people can be able to sustain themselves after the life of mining? Is Government looking in that direction so that there will not be ghost towns when the miners leave. I thank you.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you very much Advocate
Chamisa for the question. I would want to say that we have a convergence of minds on the issue of empowerment. We are in agreement when it comes to empowering people in ensuring that they have their wealth. We now agree on the issue of the Community Share
Ownership Trust that we used to argue over when we were both in
Cabinet.
If you go to Shurugwi today, we have schools and dams. There is a company that is operating there called Unki. US$10 million was given to the Community Share Ownership Trust. Let me move with the issues. Go to Zvimba, Ngezi in Chegutu, ZIMPLATS put US$10 million dollars in the CSOTs. There is also the 10% shareholding that should be given to the CSOTs and it covers Norton, which is the area for Hon. Mliswa. We go to the Midlands, the Zvishavane Community Trust is in place. It has built a lot of good schools. It has received funding, US$10 million from Mimosa. Schools and clinics are being built, roads are being constructed and they have also purchased road construction equipment. You could ask Hon. Zhuwao and he can give you a document on a lot of things that have been done. Circle Cement and Lafarge are building schools in Hon. Simbanegavi’s area – vocational schools and US$300
million was ploughed into that CSOT.
In Gwanda in Matabeleland, companies that are in that area such as Caledonia Mine and PPC, they put a Community Shareholding for the community. They put in a fund of US$10 million that has been used to uplift the science laboratory schools in Matabeleland South Province. In
Umguza, it is happening in Matabeleland North. It may not have
reached Binga, but at the mining resources where there is an abundance of mining resources, this has been done very well.
I thank you that we are in agreement and we are in congruence as regards this issue. A lot of people have suffered and we should remain united on that issue. They announce ownership in London when the locals have nothing to do. I believe that the issue of you being a lawyer has helped both of us. Let us remain in that mode. I thank you.
BENEFITS GAINED BY THE DISABLED FROM THE STEM
PROGRAMME
- HON. MGUNI asked the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology Development to inform the House whether students with disabilities have benefited from the Science Technology Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) Programme in view
of the fact that there is a shortage of specialised teachers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, any student who passed Mathematics, Biology, Chemistry and Physics at O’level and wishes to advance to A’level, taking a combination of these STEM subjects benefits from the STEM initiative on a first come, first served basis without discrimination. There is no record of any student with disabilities who has been turned away if he or she has the requisite qualifications.
The STEM initiative as well as the implementation of the enrolment exercise is guided by the principles of our national
Constitution which stipulates that there shall be no discrimination on the basis of, among others gender and disability. This accounts for the fact that our application forms and admission notifications do not capture statistics on students or applicants with disabilities since they are all treated equally and without discrimination. I thank you, Mr. Speaker
Sir.
*HON. MLISWA: This is an important question because
Minister, we want to find out how many people have benefited from
STEM that are living with disabilities and do these schools have infrastructure that is user friendly to the disabled. The majority of them cannot access the classrooms because the environment is not conducive. What has been done by the Government to ensure that the environment is conducive to learning for students with disabilities and how many students with disabilities have benefited from such a programme? I thank you.
HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I thank Hon. Mliswa for a supplementary question. I believe that in my response I have said that we did not have the statistics as regards the children with disabilities that have benefited from STEM. We did not discriminate whether they were able-bodied or disabled, but if there is need for such research, I will go back and research into that area to find out how many students with disabilities have benefited from such a programme. I would not like to mislead this House. We had not looked at it in that manner. We were looking at students who had Cs or better who could be enrolled for science subjects. May I be given an opportunity to go and look into this issue?
The other part of his question appeared as if the schools do not have infrastructure for students with disabilities. I would want to research into this area so that as the Government we look into these issues that these children with such disabilities may not be discriminated against such that they are given the same opportunity as well-bodied children. I thank you.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you. I have heard what the Minister has said, but it is known that in this country 10% of our population are people living with disabilities. Can he go back to the policy and make sure that 10% of the STEM beneficiaries are students living with disabilities.
The Minister says that they do not discriminate, but once we treat the able-bodied and the disabled the same, we will have discriminated because the disabled ones already start at a disadvantage. If it were possible, they should go back to Government policy and deliberately say that 10% of students that are going to benefit from STEM are those that live with disabilities. I thank you.
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member. I believe that it was more of a comment than a question that we should revisit the issue of the 10% of people living with disabilities and ensure that these are catered for in STEM. I believe it can be done and it is beneficial to our country. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated that access to STEM is on the first come, first served basis which means that children are competing equally. Is the Minister therefore considering supporting rural secondary schools, especially the laboratories so that those rural students are able to compete equally with those schools that already have proper laboratories to pass science subjects in towns et cetera. I know it is not in their mandate, but are they considering a deliberate policy to promote science education by supporting school laboratories.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for a very pertinent question. We are indeed seized with the matter. We are aware that most of our schools in the rural areas do not have the facilities that will allow our students to benefit from the STEM, which gives a gap between the rural community and urban schools.
We are mobilising resources in the Ministry to the tune of $3 million to try and assist the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to set up what we call STEM hubs in each district. We are starting per district; we identify schools in each district that we can capacitate to be able to teach these STEM subjects. Our target was August but we are still mobilising the resources and we will advise the districts and which schools that we will fund to set these laboratories in schools. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
PERIOD FOR RESOLVING CASES OF CORRUPTION,
MISMANAGEMENT AND FRAUD IN CHIREDZI TOWN
- HON. CHIWA asked the Minister of Local Government,
Public Works and National Housing to inform the House how long it would take the Ministry to resolve cases of corruption, mismanagement and fraud which were raised by the residents association and stakeholders in Chiredzi Town, given that reports of such cases were also confirmed by the Nhamo led investigation team, as well as the Auditor General.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I inform the Hon. Member that indeed, the Ministry is seized with the alleged cases of corruption, fraud and mismanagement of public affairs bedeviling Chiredzi Town Council. It was in response to the calls from the Hon. Member and Chiredzi residents and Ratepayers Association that I deployed an investigation team to look into these cases of corruption from 29 March to 8 April 2016. I have had sight of the investigation report and the Ministry is already in the process of implementing recommendations from the report.
CHALLENGES FACED BY CHIREDZI TOWN COUNCIL
- CHIWA asked the Minister of Local Government Public
Works and National Housing to explain the challenges faced by the Chiredzi Town Council which have resulted in its failure to provide sewer and road services in Makondo Extension Ward 8, despite the fact that residents paid up the full value of their stands seven years ago.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I inform the Hon. Member that I have taken note of the question and I will deploy officials to investigate the matter.
USE OF SEPTIC TANKS AS A SEWER RETICULATION SYSTEM
BY CHIREDZI TOWN COUNCIL
- CHIWA asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to state whether it is now standard practice for residents of high density suburbs to use septic tanks as a sewer reticulation system, as is the case in Ward 7, Chiredzi Town Council; and to further elaborate how the town council would account for service fees paid by the same residents.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I inform the Hon. Member that it is not Government policy for residents of high density suburbs to use septic tanks as a sewer reticulation system. Instead, the respective local authority should connect its residents to the conventional sewer reticulation system. The use of septic tanks in high density suburbs is strongly discouraged as it contaminates underground water.
RECOVERY OF THE ZIMBABWE NATIONAL ROAD
ADMINISTRATION FUNDS IN CHIREDZI TOWN
- HON. CHIWA asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House what steps the Ministry is taking to recover the Zimbabwe National Road Administration Funds that were paid to the contractor for road resurfacing project in Lion Drive, Chiredzi Town, considering that the road collapsed within two weeks after commissioning.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Mr. Speaker Sir, in 2016, Chiredzi Town Council submitted the rehabilitation of Lion Drive as their periodic project. ZINARA approved the project and Chiredzi Town Council proceeded to award the contract to a contractor named Clime Construction through a tender process. In terms of the Roads Act, Chiredzi Town Council has an obligation to supervise the implementation of the works and ZINARA has to monitor the same.
The contract sum was $60,685.66 and to date, the contractor has claimed and has been paid $31,630.00 to cover mobilisation and earthworks up to Base 1. The contractor has submitted a claim for $29,065.50 for surfacing works but council has not yet certified the works for ZINARA to pay, alleging poor workmanship. The council has written to the contractor to make good before payment is processed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a ZINARA team went to site for interim payment certificate verification and they advised council that there was poor workmanship and there was need for them to engage with their contractor. ZINARA is still waiting for the outcome of their engagement.
REHABILITATION OF MANYUCHI AND CHPWE BRIDGES IN
MARANDA AREA
28.HON. L. MOYO asked the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development to inform the House, what steps the
Ministry is taking to rehabilitate the Manyuchi bridge below Manyuchi
Dam and the Chipwe bridges in Maranda Area which link Mberengwa,
Mwenezi and Beitbridge in Matabeleland South.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Mr. Speaker Sir, the bridge in question is a single span bridge which lies along Sarahuru-Maranda-Mwenezi road which was damaged during the cyclone Eline of the year 2000. Big rocks were carried from the dam and were deposited on the bridge.
Chipwe Causeway which lies along the same route was also completely washed away during the same period. The effect was such that the whole Manyuchi community area could not access Maranda
Mission hospital and growth point during the rainy season.
The Ministry has prioritised the repair of Chipwe Causeway as it is cheaper and benefits the travelling public than the repair of Manyuchi Bridge. The repairs will be carried out under the emergency road rehabilitation programme which is on-going. The repairs will cost $285
000 and have been scheduled for the second phase of the programme.
In respect of Manyuchi Bridge, the design team is still investigating possible solutions to either expand the bridge or relocate as the current site is not ideal for such a structure as it is located 150-200 metres downstream of the Manyuchi Dam Spillway. The repair of the bridge will be considered for phase 3 of the emergency works programme.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON. MANDIWANZIRA), the House adjourned at
Thirteen Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 6th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 11th May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
LAUNCH OF THE WASTE MANAGEMENT AND BIN ROLLOUT
PROGRAMME
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the Senate that the Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate will hold a Waste Management Launch and Bin Rollout to Parliamentarians on Thursday, 18th May, 2017 from 1000hrs to 1100hrs at the Africa Unity Square. All members are invited to this event. The launch is aimed at creating awareness in proper waste management and practices in all constituencies for a clear, safe and healthy environment.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Deputy Minister of Agriculture (Livestock). Minister, do you have any means to supply us with combine harvesters in districts like Muzarabani? Shortage of combine harvesters will result in late harvest for farmers on command agriculture as we have a bumper harvest this year.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Speech not recorded due to
technical fault.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, translation
is not coming through. Hon. Sen. Manyeruke, the Hon. Minister will have to respond to your question in English. Is that okay with you?
HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Madam President, it is
okay.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Madam President. I
earlier said, I did once informed this Senate on steps taken by Government in making sure that there were enough combine harvesters to harvest our maize so that the farmers who want to grow wheat can go into the fields as quickly as possible in time. As I said, Government did identify almost about 280 combine harvesters available in working condition and the other combines which are not in working condition. Government is in the process of repairing those which are not in working order to make sure that the programme is accelerated.
We might have as many combine harvesters as possible but it will be possible to harvest all the maize at one time for every farmer. So, if I can have some details as to where you are exactly so that I can get the office to check if there are any combine harvesters available in that area and how you can be accommodated as quickly as possible. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development. What policy measures does your Ministry have or is contemplating to put into place to address the inadequate science laboratory facilities in regions where these are below standard. I am referring specifically to Matabeleland where I estimate that there is approximately 12% availability of science facilities in rural secondary schools. I am sorry I have directed my question to the wrong Minister, I wanted the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you. We have already
taken steps Hon. Chair. In 2014...
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, who is
Chair?
HON. DR. DOKORA: Hon. Madam President, it is because I spend too much time in the other House. Sorry Madam President. I was just saying that we have already taken steps as part of the strategy to mainstream the studies relating to the sciences and mathematics. In 2014, we distributed to every secondary school including satellite secondary schools, the advanced Zim-Science kits which have a lifespan of four to five years. As I speak now, we are looking at the resupply chain of some of the components that are perishable or that diminish through experiments carried out in schools. Every school in every part of the country did receive the science kits that I am making reference to.
Secondly, we have also encouraged the local communities, and I
know in Matabeleland South, they are a model province for us because the rural district council there, Gwanda, for instance, has made sufficient efforts to mobilise parents to contribute to the construction of laboratories and with the support of the mining companies in the areas. I think it was also through the instrumentality of the Community Share Ownership scheme. When we received a couple of those laboratories, we did sing on the top of our voices that this was a model that should be replicated by other Community Share Ownership schemes across the country, but of course we are continuing to make efforts as I will indicate in another question from Hon. Sen. Mashavakure later on – what other strategies we have underway under the joint venture strategy. *HON. SEN. MURWIRA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. How far have you gone in distributing computers in schools that are in the rural areas since we want to enhance our children’s education?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): It would be useful Madam
President to have the question in writing if statistics are required, then I can actually get the numbers on the table. But, the Hon. Sen. would remember that the computerisation programme was initiated by His Excellency the President, Cde Mugabe some fifteen or sixteen years ago when he began that process of donating computers to schools. At first, it was desktop computers. I know I have shared some thoughts on that matter before in this Hon. House. Subsequent to that series of donations and perhaps continuing alongside that series, the Ministry of ICT here represented have also extended a helping hand to my schools particularly in the last year. There were some significant contributions that were made directly to the schools through their Universal Services Fund.
The third source is quite clearly the parents themselves and the corporates who contribute as part of their social responsibility. The matter that we continue to emphasise of course in our sector, is that the question should not be of providing a token to say, well we have given computers to a school when you have provided three computers. That is not very helpful. We desire that when computers are donated to schools, the ratio of one computer to eight learners be used as a yard stick or benchmark because that is the kind of minimum benchmark used by UNESCO. So, if you have five computers and a school has over one thousand learners, you are saying that the computers are for use in administration and not for the learners.
We expect parents, and we urge them, because part of the resources that we are deploying through the mobilisation of school improvement grants for instance, they also go towards helping in securing some of these tools but the parents must take an active decision to assist their schools. I am aware that the Ministry of Energy and Power Development is also helping my schools by putting power. It is only those schools with power that then can immediately focus on the ICTs or the use of solar and generators. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question goes to Hon. Minister Chidhakwa. Thank you very much for coming, you have been away for a very long time. I am happy to see you today.
Hon. Minister I am from Zvishavane. I would like to know if ever Shabanie Mine is going to open because it has been closed for a long time and employees have not yet received the monies owed to them.
Since you are here today, it is good for you to bring closure to this.
Some of the buildings which housed Shabanie Mine have been given to Midlands State University. People are now being moved away from their homes. They are refusing to move because they are saying the mine still owes them their money. It is actually good to address this with the emergency that it deserves. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Madam
President and I would also want to thank the Hon. Sen. for the question.
The Ministry regards SMM as key to the revival of the economy in that region. Historically, SMM played a very critical role in providing employment opportunities and incomes for the communities. I believe that if we were to revive SMM, combined with the new entrance of Unkie and Mimosa and very shortly you will also see; following approval by Cabinet of another entrant, Todal which is a platinum mine. We have been looking at various ways, for a long time SMM was under judicial management and we have received various proposals from the judicial manager as to how he saw the resuscitation of the mine. To a lot of the proposals, we did say no, but we did agree to a situation where the SMM would reduce some of its structures and be able to raise some money which would then be pumped into the revival of Gaths Mine initially. There are a number of things that need to happen, all the earth moving vehicles need to be refurbished, but the plant itself needs to be refurbished.
We went into an arrangement where the university would take over some of the houses and that would help the university to deal with the immediate problems of the students, at the same time providing liquidity to the mine for the purposes of reviving the mine. I am happy to say that we did send a team two weeks ago, because one of the things that was very problematic was the issue of the market. You are aware that there has been a very strong lobby against the use of asbestos and I am happy to say that a delegation arrived back home from Geneva, where the meetings were held. I have information that the asbestos lobby, the continuation of the use of asbestos got a reprieve and we will be able to continue, with the support of Russia, Kazakhstan and a few other countries. That is the one side. A delegation that we sent to India, went to look for the markets and I am happy to say that we were able to establish a market of fifty thousand tonnes per year, plus another ten thousand tonnes which ordinarily goes to Turnall for the manufacture of asbestos sheets and so on.
From a marketing point of view, I feel comfortable that we can proceed perhaps not at the same level, because when the company closed, I am advised that it was on 80 000 but we may be able to start on 60 000 and see how we can move forward. From an equipment point of view, what we did was, we included the bill for the equipment, particularly for the earth-moving equipment under the small scale mining equipment which I spoke about when I was at the Trade Fair. So, there will be some money that will be outlaid from that small scale facility, but there will also be some $15 million that we are negotiating. I will be finalising the details with the Minister of Finance next week so that we can move forward.
I want to assure you that it has not been an easy walk. Not many people were keen to go into asbestos because of the big lobby, not even financers were ready to come on the table because they were not so sure whether the company would be able to resuscitate and be able to repay back their money. I want to assure you that now we have reached a stage where I can confidently speak. I am not ready to come to Zvishavane yet on that matter, I have been to Zvishavane on other matters, but not on that matter. I want to firm up on a few things so that when I come, I want to be able to speak with a voice of authority. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Mining Development. Is it Government policy that gold panners can go onto somebody’s farm and start mining? If it is not allowed, what measures can the farmer take to protect his farm from these illegal miners?
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Madam
President. The law says, if a farm is below 100 hectares, consent from the farmer is required. So, a miner cannot go onto a farm that is below a 100 hactares without the consent of the farmer but the law also continues to say, such consent cannot be unreasonably refused. What that means is that, there has to be agreement, particularly with respect to the arable land where the farmer is doing activity. Where the farmer is not doing activity, that area should be made available to the miner but where the gold or any other mineral is exactly where the agriculture is best suited for, the current position is that the farmer must be compensated. If it means relocations, it may mean relocation but there has to be full compensation to the farmer by the one who wants to do the mining.
If the farm is above 100 hectares, there is no consent required but on approving the mining permit, at the stage of consultation, the farmer must be consulted and he must say what he/she wants. In that case also, the farmer must be compensated and compensated adequately for current infrastructure developed as well as for future loss of revenue the farmer would have secured. Normally, that is where the pushing and pulling begins, how much would the farmer have earned over a period of time. What we have done is that, just today Madam President, we started a discussion in the National Assembly to discuss the National Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill. It will obviously come to the Senate and clarification on those matters will have to be given.
Madam President, let us just say that I think that can be managed. The problem has been so much the fact that there were big farms of about 3 000 hectares, then we subdivided those farms into six hectare plots. Somebody may have had a mining claim there and he was not required to ask for consent because the farm was 3 000 hectares; but when the new farmer came, the new farmer found a miner who had rights but the miner was now competing for a six hectare plot when yesterday it was competition between 3 000 hectares of farming and mining. Now, it is six hectares and mining. Those are the issues that we are now trying to correct in the Mines and Minerals Act so that we can move forward.
It is important to note that these two resources are our resources as a country. We cannot ignore agriculture because we need it and we cannot ignore mining because we need it. What we must do and what I entreat this House to do is that as we craft the laws, let us recognise both titles – the mining title and the agricultural title so that we do not sterilise resources which would otherwise have developed the country.
So, let us come up with mechanisms and we will be proposing them to you – mechanisms that will allow a farmer to do what he/she wants to do and also allow a miner to do what she/he wants to do. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: My supplementary question Minister is, would it not be courteous for the prospective miner to pay a courtesy call to the farmer largely because a purchased farm is private property and in my opinion, it is protected by property rights and cannot just be entered into willy-nilly?
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Madam President and
thank you Hon. Senator for the question. Not only should it be courteous to enter a freehold entity; but even leasehold, where somebody is holding a lease. It is not proper for anybody to just walk in and start digging without telling the other person that, ndauyawo, ndakabata kapepa kangu aka, can we discuss about it? That is provided for in the environmental and social impact assessment. When that environmental and social impact assessment process is made, they are supposed to hold consultations with the local leadership, the DA and the local farmers so that when they use explosives who will be affected or when they use such things as cyanide, who will be affected. It should be done not just as a matter of courtesy, but as a matter of principle. Once we have done the Mines and Minerals Act, we will publish a Code of Conduct of relations between the miner and the farmer so that they are guided by a certain conduct of relating to each other. We noticed this in Australia where they have a very strong system that enables that interaction through a code of conduct which is linked to the Mines and Minerals Act. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development Hon. Chidhakwa. Minister, I would want to find out how the small scale miners can be assisted through the small miners’ facility that you mentioned, especially those who are in rural areas. How can they access this?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Hon. Senator for that. Actually, all our miners are in the rural areas as we do not have any claims in the urban areas. There will be a few around Harare for lithium and limestone and so on. The facility is structured as follows; we know that a small scale miner cannot afford to put crushing, milling and gold recovery facilities. We know that a lot of the small scale miners are still using picks and shovels for their mining. What we have started off with is a programme that says, we will give two jackhammers to a small scale miner – one jackhammer to use underneath and one which is suitable for roof activities.
Secondly, we will sell to them a water pump. We will give them a compressor and a generator and then we will give them a winch which enables them to bring the ore from underground to the top. So, it will be like a tonner. I think we have one tonners and two tonners. So, where they were using buckets and filling buckets underground, bringing the material up, they will now use the winch and they will put the material, fill one tonne and then press a button , it comes up for them to offload into a truck. When they offload into a truck, they take the material to a crushing milling facility where the crushing and milling will take place.
When you look at it, you have made it easy for the miner to dig because they have jackhammers, you have given them the ability to ferry the ore up from the ground and we provide trucks to the milling facility. We will start off with 26 such centres and around them, there will be miners who will be given support. What we have done is that we have identified areas where there is gold concentration, those are the areas where we will start from. I want to emphasise this Madam President, that the beneficiaries will not be chosen by Minister Chidhakwa but the beneficiaries have chosen themselves over the last five to ten years. What we will simply do is, we will go to the Fidelity list and say, who has been supplying and selling their gold to Fidelity continuously? Then we say number one and we look at the equipment and we say we need to support them. That list is what is going to guide us because we want to put our best foot forward first and support those that are selling gold to
Fidelity. I am hoping that by doing that, we will send a message to those who sell their gold elsewhere that it is not profitable to sell it elsewhere because you will never qualify for Government funded equipment.
I want to say that I do not know which area or region you come from and I do not know whether in your area there will be such a facility but if there is going to be and there are people who have been selling gold to Fidelity who need to be empowered, I am sure that they will in that order benefit. This is the beginning, because then we will recover the money when they sell gold to Fidelity and we will rotate the fund and give to the next group of people to the next one and so forth. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and mining Development. Minister, the media has been awash with complaints against your Permanent Secretary. Can you explain what is really happening in terms of office abuse, whether it is an allegation or not, can you explain to the House?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Senators,
you should raise questions on policy in given ministries.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Point of order Madam President. The
question I am asking becomes a policy matter in that we are asking what is happening because these are public resources and we want to know the Government policy.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: But you were
quoting what is being said in the media and so forth. Sorry Senator Chimhini, I am advised that question is in the report of the Committee in the National Assembly.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHISUNGA: My question is directed to the
Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development, Hon. Gandawa. May I know what policy measures Government has taken towards facilitating the recruitment of people from provinces such as Mashonaland West and Matebeleland North whose provinces do not have teacher training colleges. What measures has Government put in place to make sure that people from those areas are also recruited in those teacher training collages?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you Madam President and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Teacher colleges, polytechnics and universities are national institutions and cater for nationals of Zimbabwe. We also enroll students from across the world should they want to come and enroll in the country. So, irrespective of the area where the student comes from, it is Government policy that they must be treated equally and afforded the same opportunity in all our institutions across the country.
Suffice to say that, we are aware that Matebeleland North and
Mashonaland West do not have a teachers’ college and polytechnic, both of them. We are in the process now and at an advance stage of establishing sites to put up a polytechnic and teachers’ college in these two provinces which do not have a teachers’ college and polytechnic. We were still focused on establishing a university in each province which we have now completed. I am sure in the other half of the year, in Matebeleland North, we have engaged the Ministry of Mines who are willing to lease to us the Hwange Colliery Training Centre for the teachers’ college and a polytechnic for a start. In Mashonaland West, we are still in discussions to try and locate a place where we can put a teachers’ college and a polytechnic.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary
Education, Science and Technology Development, Hon. Dr. Gandawa. We want to find out how the STEM programme has been accepted in universities especially considering the girl students.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for a pertinent question. The STEM programme is a programme that has been widely accepted by the people. The question is how have the girl students taken this. We have 10 568 students who have come in through STEM. Fifty-two percent of them are male students taking up STEM subjects but 48% represents the girls. We are encouraging them so that we reach a gender balance between the numbers but there are quite a number of girls who are taking up sciences. It is a challenge when you get to universities because the boychild is getting more access into sciences at university level. So, we do have measures to raise awareness and encourage the girl-child to take up sciences. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: My question is directed to the Minister of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development. Minister, gender equality is a good concept but often misconstrued in families particularly in rural and some urban areas, thereby causing divorces and misunderstandings among families as a result of misinterpretations. What programmes of awareness is the Ministry implementing to specifically outline areas of equality as to what it implies in families to understand the dimensions that are within this concept? Thank you very much.
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN AFFAIRS, GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIKWINYA): Thank
you Madam President. The Hon. Member who has asked the question is right but let me not hasten to say we are moving with the times and women want their space in every sector. Let me refer you to the Constitution of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Section 17 where we are talking about 50/50. We are moving there but in homes, it could be slightly different because we are also in a patriarchy society wehre fathers believe they run homes. When we do walk in there from a position of power and authority, our male counterparts get very threatened but let me assure you Hon. Member, it is just a question of time for you to understand and appreciate who we are in society – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I sincerely hope that as we move and work, you will learn to appreciate who we are, what we can contribute to society and not just in society but in our families and children so that as we move as counterparts in development, we all develop in that manner.
– [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. SEN. MAKORE: A follow-up question please, Madam
President, infact Hon. Minister, we are aware of such development and everybody else is aware of that. The question seeks to find out programmes that you are embarking on to impart knowledge for people to understand what it means. This is calling for programmes that can be implemented in rural areas because it is a gross misconception to those who do not understand it. Thank you very much.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you once again Hon. Senator. We
have so many programmes on the ground, not just by my Ministry but also by various womens’ organisations to try and disseminate information to those who may have not understood this properly or those who may feel that some women are threatening their bossy positions in the homes.
We do programmes as a Ministry and have a Department for Gender Equality. Gender equality does not mean female or male counterparts but it is talking about both men and women and their position in society. When we talk about their positions in society, it therefore means that we are talking to both you and your wife to understand this equality concept. The programme that you are talking about is on the ground, it may take a bit of time for you to understand because you are a father or a male. It may be problematic for you to understand that we are now going to move in that manner. However, the programmes are there on the ground. The churches, schools, communities, the Law Society, even the chiefs and the villagers are on those programmes both from Government and NGOs. I sincerely hope that it will go further than that but so far so good. The programmes are on the ground.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Minister, can you tell us what programmes you have put in place to make sure that those people in our society who do not have birth certificates and national identification get them before the beginning of the voter registration exercise.
In mind, I have got people who used to be called ‘aliens’ but were born in this country and who according to the new Constitution are Zimbabweans and those who were affected during the Gukurahundi era.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President and thank you for your question Hon. Senator. The Ministry of Home Affairs has presented the programme that we were expecting to rollout and start all over the country in two weeks time, especially targeting the remote areas like Binga and Chipinge where we want everyone to get the documents.
However, we are very much aware that if you issue a birth certificate or national identification to somebody who is not a Zimbabwean national, it means you have converted full rights to that person and equal rights to Zimbabwean nationals. We will be taking very cautious steps in rolling out that programme. I have seen everything on the budget that went up to $17 million. That is why we did not embark on it last month. Our intention was to start last month but we have returned it to the technocrats so that they can revise it and lower the expenses as most of the expenses were on the allowances of the new recruits. We decided to localise the people in those areas in order to cut down on the costs but we are going to start very soon.
I personally went to assess the situation in Tsholotsho as it is one of the areas that we want to go and issue birth certificates and national identification documents. We resolved to exempt some of the laws and regulations so that people can have their requisite documents because it is their right. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUGABE: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. Hon. Minister, there is concern over land degradation that is causing river siltation and establishment of contours through maybe wrong farming methods, mining or natural means. What measures have been put in place to assess or remedy the damage caused?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Madam President and
thank you Hon. Senator for your question. However, as she puts it, it does not involve the Minister of Agriculture alone but involves various other ministries, hence I will respond on the part of the Ministry of Agriculture.
The issue of contours has always been promoted by the ministry in terms of ensuring that water does not have long runways. We encourage that there be contour ridges particularly to farmers whose fields are on slopes which are done and assisted by our extension officers to form those contours. Degradation is not only caused by agriculture as in other areas, I might as well advise that there is a new way of countering that aspect of degradation using livestock. You will appreciate that degradation takes places where there is no grass. When it rains and the top soil is very crusty and when it rains water is already flowing away particularly in areas like Matabeleland South. From my agricultural point of view, we are promoting what we call ‘communal ranch and grazing and kraaling’ so that when the animals are gathered in one place where there is no grass growing because of the hooves; next year, because they would have broken the crust, you will find that grass is plentiful in those areas. That is one way or another from a Ministry’s point of view of what we are trying to do. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I move that time for questions
without notice be extended by 10 minutes.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: My question is directed to the
Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Hon. Minister, I want to know the Government policy because your department is the one that deals with apprehending the wrong doers to maintain law and order. How do they manage to apprehend the air polluters since we see your officers in the roadblocks urinating and defecating in the open and affecting people by the nature’s smell? How do they apprehend the public?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President and thank you for your question Hon. Senator. According to the Constitution, police are bringing peace, investigating crime, preventing crimes and they are also doing it on behalf of every Ministry that is in Zimbabwe. So, if there is an Act that is being provided by the Ministry who is heading the environment saying no one should urinate behind a tree, police will enforce that one. That is the duty and we do not enforce anything which is not lawful and where we do not have an Act to act upon it, we will act only when there is an Act that has been passed and is given to us to make the people act lawfully. Therefore, if urinating behind the tree is now illegal, the police will be informed by the Minister of Environment. I thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: There is the Environmental
Management Act and I think it provides that all the waste be put in a toilet. So, if the police do not know that by now, we are in a danger because we are going to be infected.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Madanha. The country is now poised for a bumper harvest especially in the rural areas where I come from. The cheaper mode of transport, the railways is dysfunctional and that leaves one mode of transport like vehicles and other modes that are available for the poor peasant vulnerable rural farmer that this time, he has got his bumper harvest. Can you inform the public or the nation if there are any steps your Ministry has taken to assist and protect this rural farmer to take his/her produce to the market before he is visited by bogus commercial buyers? That will not be good for the nation especially considering our gross domestic product.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Member for posing such a very important and crucial question. It is true that without proper road infrastructure, it will be very difficult for us to move our farm produce to the market. We all know that the previous rain season brought with it joy but at the same time, it also brought some sorrowful incidence. We are all aware that for the past 50 or so many years, we had never experienced such a rainfall pattern.
As a result of these rains and the Cyclone Dineo, a lot of roads and bridges were destroyed. The Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, after the state of roads was declared a disaster, has been working with other Ministries like the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to raise funds so that we can actually invest in our road infrastructure. Three programmes were arranged and the first one being the programme of emergency works which started last month and is terminating this month.
This programme was mainly to restore movement of goods and services through filling of potholes and also carrying out some urgent repair works so that we can facilitate the movement of goods and services. So far this programme bore some fruits and as we can see, even right here in town, we see a lot of repair works taking place. Next month we will be moving to a second stage which will be the stage to build up some security features on most of our structures. For example bridges that were destroyed, we need to put up things like protective works so that in the next rain season, we do not experience the same level of destruction.
This programme will also take two months and for the rest of the year, we are going to implement a programme of rehabilitation which will include resealing of roads and complete maintenance so that we actually guarantee that our crops are moved to markets. Madam President, I agree with the Hon. Senator that the cheapest mode of transport which is the national railways is to some extent dysfunctional. We are also not sitting down and watching. We have got various programmes that we are undertaking so that we can restore the viability of the NRZ. I think we all know the problems that we have like the vandalism that took place at the NRZ. We are also aware that our track at the NRZ really needs rehabilitation and we also know that our communication and lighting system is no longer functional.
To this extent, we are inviting potential investors who are willing to invest in the NRZ and Cabinet has approved the recapitalisation of the National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ) with conditions which we think are more conducive to attract investors to come and invest in NRZ. Now, coming to the question of people living in the rural areas, we are all aware that we have got four entities in the country that are responsible for maintenance, construction and rehabilitation of our road infrastructure. These four entities right now as I speak are working flat out to repair our damaged roads. These entities are the Rural District
Councils (RDCs), the District Development Fund (DDF), Urban Councils and the Department of Roads.
Zimbabwe National Roads Administration (ZINARA), which is an authority created by an Act of Parliament has got the responsibility to mobilise funds and distribute to all these four entities so that they can work on our roads and restore transit of goods and services in a safe and secure environment. So, we are pretty sure that our farmers will have road condition which are acceptable to transporters so that any transport costs that are charged are not too high. We are repairing our roads and we hope sooner or later, we will have our road network in good conditions so that our farmers can take their farm produce to the market.
I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
FUNDS FOR SHABANIE MINE WORKERS
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain:-
- whether any money has been budgeted to cater for the Shabanie Mine workers who have not been paid for the past eight years, considering that the mine managers in charge of affairs are dismissing the workers;
- what criteria is being used to pay fifty dollars a month for some of the workers who are still at Shabanie Mine; and
- whether money paid by Midlands State University students who
are renting the mine houses goes to Treasury and if so, why is it not being used to cater for the workers’ salaries.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDHAKWA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
(HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam President. I thank Hon. Sen. Timveos for the question. Madam President, when I asked for written responses from the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development, I was only able to get responses to one question, which is number one. I then noticed that there were actually 10 questions which need to be answered by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I wish to request that questions numbers 2 to 10 be deferred until next time.
As I was doing that, I got a written answer and I will read the answer for question number 1 Madam President. Madam President, the question by Hon. Sen. Timveos should be addressed to the
Minister of Mines and Mining Development. That is what the answer says.
The only part that I need to clarify now as the Minister of Mines and Mining Development is the issue to do with the US$50. I think the US$50 is just an amount to give people so that they have something to use. It is not enough and it can never be enough. I think that it is important, as you rightly said, to resuscitate the activities of Shabani Mashaba Mines (SMM) and the actions that I talked about, we will deal with those issues.
The money is not going to Treasury because SMM is a limited liability company. The money will go to the Judicial Manager who will then use it for the purpose of resuscitating the activities of SMM.
Basically, that is the answer to question number 1. Thank you Madam President.
POLICY ON HIV/AIDS AT INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development to explain the
Ministry’s position regarding the implementation of the policy on HIV/AIDS at institutions of higher learning in the country.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you Madam President. HIV and
AIDS is one of the most challenging and important health issues in the world today. The Ministry found it necessary to incorporate HIV and AIDS education as part of the curriculum in Higher and Tertiary Education institutions. A curriculum review was conducted in 2003 and this resulted in the launch of the HIV and AIDS Policy specifically designed for tertiary education institutions. The aim of this policy is to provide colleges and institutions of higher learning with a standard framework and guidelines for the implementation programmes.
The policy complements the National HIV and AIDS Policy of the Republic of Zimbabwe. It expands, develops and adds new dimensions to the existing programmes currently being implemented by both the public and private sectors. In doing so, this policy also strengthens the effectiveness of the National Policy by developing practical solutions to fight the HIV and AIDS pandemic.
Madam President, as part of the multi-sectoral responses to addressing HIV and AIDS, the policy serves as the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development’s response to effectively address the epidemic. The Ministry and community within institutions of higher learning agreed that there is need for a sectoral policy to deal with this epidemic.
- Policy Guidelines
The policy seeks to reduce the prevalence of HIV and AIDS and mitigate its impact amongst intended beneficiaries.
The policy covers HIV and AIDS, STIs and opportunistic diseases linked to HIV and AIDS.
HIV and AIDS Programmes must be integrated into the main budget at ministerial level at the planning stage. This budget should benefit the
Ministry, its colleges and the communities they serve.
Initiatives come from all within the Ministry, colleges and communities they serve.
HIV and AIDS prevention care and support programmes should be fully integrated into the college curricula and other participatory activities at the colleges.
HIV and AIDS programmes require that both the Ministry and its institutions develop alliances with other ministries and institutions, including schools as well as those in the private sector and donor community.
2 Legal Framework
The legal framework of this policy takes into account the 1999 National HIV and AIDS Policy of the Republic of Zimbabwe and should be interpreted in conjunction with Statutory Instrument 1/2000, Statutory Instrument 202 of 1998, International Labour Organisation (ILO) Code of Practice on HIV and AIDS and the SADC Employment Code of Conduct on HIV and AIDS.
Madam President, the key features of HIV and AIDS laws are;
- Republic of Zimbabwe National Policy on HIV and AIDS;
- SADC Employment Code of Conduct on HIV and AIDS; and
- International Labour Organisation Policy;
- Labour Relations Act, Statutory Instrument 202 of 1998
(HIV/AIDS) Regulations
Madam President, the main objectives of this policy are;
- To provide a standard framework and guidelines which colleges and institutions of higher learning can use in the implementation of their programmes;
- To prevent new infection and spread of HIV and AIDS by encouraging responsible behaviour;
- To provide care and support for the infected and affected by empowering them with skills to cope with their condition. Ensure that both structures, a conducive and supportive environment exists in all colleges to empower and support those infected and affected;
- To train and equip students by offering continuous in-service training on HIV and AIDS, and provide accurate and up to date information on HIV and AIDS.
- To produce peer educators, trainers and volunteers who are adequately equipped and empower them to confidently carry out outreach programmes in the communities they serve.
- To mainstream gender issues into the college HIV and AIDS programmes; and
- To form smart partnerships to enhance HIV and AIDS programme implementation.
Madam President, the policy with the following components; Risk reduction, reducing stigma and discrimination, care and support
(including counseling), teaching skills, the rights of people living with HIV, gender and HIV and AIDS, and collaborating with other stakeholders like the National Aids Council. In closing Madam President, I would present a copy of the policy that governs HIV/AIDS in our colleges to the Senate. I thank you Madam President.
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW CURRICULUM
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary
and Secondary Education to clarify whether in the implementation of the new curriculum there are any core subjects which are obligatory for all
‘O’ Level students and to further explain whether all subjects are now optional such that each student chooses his/her own combination.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Madam President.
I thank the Hon. Sen. Mashavakure for his question. The secondary school curriculum and I make a very brief response because we took the opportunity to do a workshop on these matters, it is more elaborate in the documents that we then submitted to Hon. Senator but he chose to raise this question so I am obligated to respond. So, the secondary should offer learners from Forms 1 to 4 a broad based curriculum from which they acquire the necessary competences from different learning areas. Hon. Senators will recall that we stopped calling them subjects but
Learning Areas to cater for students’ diverse talents, interests, aptitudes and abilities. The choice of Learning Areas at this level guides learners on progression to various career paths or further studies and is promoted by the Ministry’s emphasis on STEAM/STEM, Visual and Performing
Arts, Humanities and languages, Design and Technology and Commercials.
The short answer as to whether there are necessary inclusions, the short answer is yes. Each learner shall participate in at least ten (10) learning areas, seven (7) of which will be cross cutting (compulsory) and three (3) to five (5) others will be necessary electives. The necessary electives indicate a choice of pathway by the learner.
In Forms 1 to 4, all learners engage in the following cross cutting learning areas.
- Agriculture Forms 1-4
- Physical Education, Sport and Mass Displays Forms 1-4
- General Science Forms 1 – 4
- Mathematics Forms 1-4
- Indigenous Language Forms 1-4
- English Language Forms 1-4
- Heritage Studies and LOP Forms 1-4
The necessary electives shall be chosen from the Learning Areas in the following categories.
- Sciences
- Mathematics
- Languages
- Humanities
- Commercials
- Technical Vocational
- Music and Arts
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: When the workshop was held
I was out on the Reconciliation Bill, so some Members of Parliament did not attend and that includes me. I thank you Mr. President.
ACQUISITION OF A PRINTING PRESS BY ZIMSEC
- SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to explain the impact made by the acquisition of a printing press by ZIMSEC on the level or amount of fees paid by each student particularly those writing public examinations at end of year.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. President. I
thank the Hon. Member and I take note of the explanation that he has provided but I am willing also to have bilateral engagement with the Hon. Senator so that if these responses are too brief we can be more extensive when you visit us at our offices.
ZIMSEC has not acquired the printing press as yet. It is in the process of acquiring the printing press at a total cost of US$5 007 126, and has to date made an initial payment of US$1m out of the required advance payment of US$3.1m, towards the procurement of the printing press. The balance US$2 100 000.00 is yet to be paid and due to the difficulties in acquiring foreign currency, it may take a further 2 months to pay off. Delivery of the printing press is on receipt of the full advance payment of US$3.1m, after which it may take a further 3 months to mount it as it is custom made to suit ZIMSEC’s requirements.
- The impact of acquiring the printing press will not be felt immediately. The main objective in getting the printing press is security and integrity of the examinations. For the financial benefit to be realised, this may only be in the subsequent years after the printing press has been installed and is printing commercially to realise revenue. We will need also to look at the commercial side of that printing press once installed at Norton.
- A prerequisite of the success of the printing press is recruiting qualified staff. ZIMSEC is looking at three critical managers, an engineer, an ICT technician and printing manager. The candidates will benefit from secured production of question papers which will eliminate the stresses caused by re-runs of examinations due to leakages. This has a stabilizing effect on the examination system.
- The introduction of the updated curriculum has also presented an opportunity for ZIMSEC to factor in implementation expenses into the existing examination budget. ZIMSEC has incorporated continuous assessment in the overall final assessment regime. With this in mind, it would not be prudent to reduce the fees that are currently being paid by candidates as there are various aspects of the programme that need some substantial funding.
DEVELOPMENT OF A SPECIAL NEEDS EDUCATION POLICY
- SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education whether the Ministry intends to develop Special Needs Education Policy and law in line with the recommendations of the Nziramasanga Commission Report.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): My Ministry has taken note of the developments between 1999 and now, in particular the adoption of the 2013 Constitution of Zimbabwe as well as Regional Global trends towards inclusivity.
Therefore, the Hon. Senator’s request is being addressed from several angles as part of the effort to achieve the goal of an inclusive education system in which the Special Education Needs are part and parcel of the Ministry’s service delivery to all learners in Zimbabwe.
Accordingly, the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education has embraced inclusivity in the current constitutional alignment of the Education Act and relevant Statutory Instrument. Inclusivity is among the principles underpinning the curriculum framework 2015-2022 and has been adopted as a cross cutting theme in all Ministry programmes.
In essence, the specific requirements of learners with Special Educational Needs are being addressed as an ongoing concern in line with the Ministry’s policy position on inclusive access to education and quality learning outcomes for all.
OPERATIONALISATION OF THE NEW CURRICULUM AT BOTH
PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to explain to the House whether the operationalization of the new curriculum at both primary and secondary schools takes into consideration capacities and alteration span of students involved, considering that some practitioners in the education sector claim that the time frame needed by each student would cover from 7 a.m. to 5 ‘o’ clock p.m.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: On a point of order Mr.
President. There is an error on the phrase ‘alteration span’. Papers
Office miscopied my question. I had written ‘concentration span.’
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I am grateful for the correction while I am on my feet.
The development of syllabuses for both primary and secondary was done by experts in the education system, experienced educationists and practicing teachers, among others which considered the normal attention span of learners at infant, junior and secondary school. Infants aged 4-8 (ECD A – Grade 2) has attention span of between 8-20 minutes and they have a curriculum that emphasizes learning through play, especially at E.C.D and most of their lessons have very minimum time allocation of between 10 to 15 minutes.
The time allocated to their learning area should see them completing their day programme at or before twelve mid-day. Junior and secondary school learners have attention span 16-40 minutes, which is relatively longer attention span and these can complete their day programme a little later as compared to Infant Level that is around 4-5
p.m. The time allocated for each Learning Area is flexible and should allow the teacher to complete the concepts as planned. Teacher creativity is expected to integrate concepts from different Learning Areas, for example; dance and music can be combined instead of teaching dance separately and music separately.
Please note that schools are now providing one hot meal once a day – about mid morning or shortly thereafter.
POLICY REGARDING THE USE OF SCHOOL BUSES BOUGHT BY
SCHOOL DEVELOPMENT ASSOCIATIONS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: To ask the Minister of Primary and
Secondary Education -
- To explain the policy regarding the use of school buses bought by the School Development Association in view of the fact that in some schools buses are used for political party related functions where hiring fees are not paid to the schools concerned;
- To explain what action can be taken by School Heads and School Development Associations in the event that they are coerced to release their school buses without payment.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): As a Ministry, we have made
it public that schools can purchase buses for their use. The new school curriculum says that there are opportunities there for deploying those buses in pursuit of heritage studies or those that lead them to tourist destinations. I am happy to let the Hon. Members know that a number of schools have purchased these buses which are used for related business. Any hiring of school buses should be done in consultation with the School Development Committee (SDC) of the particular school.
It is not the function of the school head to act unilaterally.
There is no way in school where heads and the School Development Committees (SDCs) can be coerced to release school buses. In fact, our heads and SDCs have an authority over school assets and the situation will remain the same until any changes are made. I make this reference also in respect of use of school premises for church services and so on. Access to those school premises is made through the administration of that school and the SDCs in consultation. If there is indeed coercion, evidence would be visible in the form of tangible complaints, for example. letters, representations coming through our offices. I thank you.
RATIFICATION OF THE MARAKESH TREATY
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to inform the House when Government intends to ratify the Marakesh Treaty so that the blind and print disabled persons in the country can benefit from easy access to published works.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. President, I thank Hon. Sen. Mashavakure for the pertinent question. However, may I kindly refer this question to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to respond and they deal with this issue more comprehensively. I thank you.
REPAIRING OF A STORM DRAIN IN WATERFALLS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to indicate when a badly constructed storm drain at House No. 254 Clee Drive, Prospect, Waterfalls, in Harare would be attended to in view of the fact that stagnant water in that place has become a breeding area for mosquitoes and despite that, this case was reported to both the City of Harare and the Civil Protection Department.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chimhini for the question. May I inform the Hon. Member that No. 254 Clee Drive is situated on a low lying area. Storm water is supposed to pass through Stand No. 254 Clee Drive into the next stand at the back. However, the stand owner at the back has put a boundary wall with no weep holes to allow storm water to pass through naturally.
This has led to storm water ponding inside Stand No. 254 Clee Drive.
The City of Harare is going to ensure that weep holes are created on the boundary wall thereby allowing natural flow of water across stands. I thank you.
PLANS TO TAME THE TRAFFIC JUNGLE CAUSED BY KOMBI DRIVERS AND ILLEGAL TAXI OPERATORS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Home Affairs to state the Ministry’s plans to tame the traffic jungle caused by kombi drivers and illegal taxi operators in urban centres who flagrantly break traffic rules with impunity and no immediate corrective measures have been taken by both the Zimbabwe Republic Police and the Municipal Police.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President. Thank you Hon. Sen.
Chimhini for the question. In answering the question from Hon. Sen.
Chimhini, it is important to emphasise that the Zimbabwe Republic
Police derives its mandate from Section 219 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. Among other duties charged to the Zimbabwe Republic Police is the duty to prevent crime and to maintain law and order.
In the exercise of some of its functions, Sections 219 (2) (b) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act of 2013, allows the Zimbabwe Republic Police to cooperate with other bodies that may be established by law for the purpose of preventing particular classes of offences. Indeed, as Hon. Sen. Chimhini rightly observes, classes of such offences that readily come to mind include violations of the Road Traffic Act and its sister motoring laws and the contravention of different by-laws under the Urban Councils Act [Chapter 29:15].
As Government, we remain conscious of the traffic congestion in our urban areas, particularly, in Harare. We are also keeping an eye on the rowdy behaviour mainly by touts, commuter omnibus and taxi operators including the notorious mushika-shika. Mr. President, Hon. Senators will appreciate that our greatest challenge in taming the traffic jungle in municipal areas is chiefly two-fold. Firstly, the nonavailability of reliable and dependable urban public transport that has seen almost our cities being flooded by private operators and secondly, inadequate parking space and designated termini for our motoring public, greatly contribute to the traffic menace in our cities.
Compounding the situation is the issue of rapid urbanisation and population growth (both in terms of people and vehicles) in most areas in Zimbabwe. This has inadvertently caused a lot of strain to existing infrastructure such as roads, parking space, holding bays, toilets for us by commuters among other necessary amenities. I am however, confident that Hon. Senators are fully aware of the regular police and municipal deployments in and around the cities trying to bring sanity on our roads by reining in errant motorists and apprehending offenders. The Zimbabwe Republic Police has deployed motorised, bike and foot patrols that continue to arrest unruly motorists almost on a daily basis.
Furthermore, the ZRP, together with other stakeholders such as the Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe are continuously undertaking various strategies and putting to an end the lawlessness caused by unscrupulous road users.
Some of the strategies include:
- campaigns against irresponsible driving behavour, road rage and deliberate disregard for the law, rights and respect for others.
- Arresting traffic offenders and processing them through dedicated courts;
- Clamping all vehicles parked or loading and offloading at undesignated areas;
- Controlling traffic at faulty intersections or during peak hours; and
- Impounding unroadworthy vehicles and pirate taxis.
To this end, the Ministry of Home Affairs welcomes the recent upward review of traffic fines as this might serve as a deterrent to would-be traffic offenders.
Hon. President of the Senate, as a forward-looking Government, we have other long-term plans to ease congestion in urban areas which I am sure will be announced by relevant Cabinet Ministers at the appropriate time. Suffice to say that as a Ministry responsible for the maintenance of law and order, we will never allow errant motorists to break traffic rules with impunity. We however continue to sincerely appeal to all road users to exercise sobriety and restraint on all our traffic bad habits and use our roads with dignity at all times. I thank you Madam President.
CLASSIFICATION OF ZIMBABWE AS A PROBLEM
COUNTRY DESPITE SIGNING OF THE HUMAN
TRAFFICKING ACT
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Home Affairs
to-
(a) inform the House why Zimbabwe continues to be classified as a problem country despite the signing of the Human Trafficking Act? (b) state Government Policy on the implementation of the provision of the Human Trafficking Act that was signed by the
President.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President. The above questions were directed to the Minister of Home Affairs by Hon. Sen. Timveos.
In response to the first question, it should be clarified that Zimbabwe was only classified as a problem country in terms of human trafficking in 2015 when the country’s legislation to curb human trafficking was still fairly new. The country had ratified the protocol to prevent, suppress and punish human trafficking especially women and children in 2013 and the Act was enacted in 2014. More so, by then, the country had not yet come up with its National Plan of Action (NAPLAC) which is the guiding blue print on curbing this crime of human trafficking. The NAPLAC was only launched on the 29th of July in 2016. Furthermore, since this was a new phenomenon in the country’s legislation; there was and there is still a lot that needs to be done so that the general public is informed about the dangers of human trafficking as well as educating the law enforcement agencies on the aspects of the crime of human trafficking.
Pertaining to the second question which requires the Minister to state Government policy on the implementation of the provision of the Human Trafficking Act that was signed by the President; it should be highlighted that the Act makes provision for the establishment of the anti-trafficking Inter-Ministerial Committee tasked with coming up with the National Plan of Action to curb human trafficking. This Committee was established in 2015 by the President through Statutory Instrument 2 of 2015 and has since come up with a National Plan of Action (NAPLAC) against trafficking in persons as mandated by the Act which was launched on 29th of July, 2016. The NAPLAC is centred upon four major goals, each with a specific objective. The four major goals are prosecution, prevention, protection and partnership/coordination.
Under prosecution, the aim is to establish an effective criminal justice and legal framework. The objectives of this goal are; to detect, investigate and prosecute trafficking in persons cases, continuous review of legislation to keep it aligned with regional and international standards as well as eliminating corruption in trafficking in persons cases. The NAPLAC notes that there is need for further capacity building of law enforcement, prosecution and the judiciary on identification, investigation, prosecution and adjudication of the crime as well as on victim support and witness protection.
The prevention goal aims to make sure that trafficking in persons is prevented. The objectives hereto are as follows:
- To conduct research and documentation and facilitate information sharing on the crime;
- To raise public awareness on trafficking of persons;
- To build capacity of key stakeholders on the prevention of trafficking in persons;
- To recommend to Government and non State actors to carryout poverty alleviation programmes involving potential vulnerable groups and targeted communities.
The gist of the protection goal is the establishment of identification, referral and assistance system for victims of trafficking with the following objectives:
- To establish a functional identification and referral system for reported cases of trafficking in persons.
- To facilitate the provision of appropriate shelter and psychosocial support services to identify the victims of trafficking;
- To establish a sustainable national re-integration and rehabilitation programme for identified victims of trafficking;
- To protect the privacy and identity of trafficked persons before, during and after criminal proceedings.
Under partnership and coordination, it is envisaged that coordination and cooperation at national, regional and international level is ensured. This is to be done by ensuring enhanced participation and coordination in ensuring enhanced participation and coordination in international and regional cooperation; monitoring and evaluating the implementation of the overall national response to trafficking in persons as well as funding the implementation of the NAPLAC.
The Committee has already started implementing the NAPLAC and a provincial taskforce team that was recently established in the Bulawayo Province to assist in carrying out awareness campaigns at provincial level. Plans are underway to cover all provinces such that the message cascades to the grass root level. I think if an evaluation can be done now, it is no longer classified as a problem country in terms of human trafficking as it was in 2015. I thank you Madam President.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
PHYSICAL EDUCATION (P.E) IN SCHOOLS
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to state whether it would be prudent to discard Physical Education (P.E.) from the school time table since all students would be required to take part in the same form of sporting discipline at some point each week.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Any learning area that is cross cutting (compulsory) cannot be dropped. Physical Education, Sport and Mass Displays play an important role in the total development of the learner. Through Physical Education, Sport and Mass Displays, learners acquire the knowledge, skills, right attitudes and values towards the pursuit of lifelong physically active and healthy lifestyles. The curriculum further encourages the development of enterprising skills covered in the form 5 and 6 pathways. The Physical Education, Sport and Mass Displays learning area provides a platform for the development of competencies that, in the subsequent levels, can be used for application in amateur and professional sport. The framework provides a platform and opportunities to develop character, social and self-management skills. The Learning Area provides a long term impact on reducing national health bills. Most of the health problems we have today can be attributed to lack of physical wellness and fitness exercise. Besides, a healthy nation is also potentially an economically productive and happy nation. The underside side needs no further explanation. It is therefore not prudent to discard Physical Education from the school time table because whatever learners will do in life, the benefit from this Learning Area will be felt for life.
ADEQUACY OF MATHS AND SCIENCE TEXTBOOKS IN
SCHOOLS
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to explain to the House whether Mathematics and Science textbooks in schools are adequate in their content and approach, including what the new curriculum aims to instill to the learners with regards to the STEM concept.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Mathematics and Science
textbooks that speak to the updated curriculum are now available on the market. However, I want Hon. Members to appreciate that teaching and learning is never locked in a textbook but rather by a syllabus. Textbooks are reference resources. In addition, the textbooks which were used for the old curriculum have some content that is still relevant and can therefore be used in the current Phase 2 as resource or reference materials, but not all. It is encouraging to note that though we have Mathematics and Science books on the market, a lot more are coming through our indigenous publishing companies who have risen to the expectations of Phase 2.
MEASURES TO BRIDGE THE RESOURCE GAP BETWEEN
RURAL, URBAN AND CHURCH RUN SCHOOLS
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to appraise the House on the measures that Government is taking to bridge the resource gap between rural , urban schools and those run by churches in terms of a balanced implementation without disadvantaging any learners throughout the country.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): The Ministry has adapted
various mechanisms to mobilize resources. The following are some of the measures the Ministry has undertaken to reduce the resource gap:
- School improvement grant system targeting rural schools where schools are given a minimum of between $5 000 to use in improving their schools.
- Joint Venture Partnerships in construction of schools.
- Ministry of Energy and Power Development helps out rural schools through REA, introducing electricity and encouraging schools to take up solar energy in the rural set up.
- On ICTs, all provincial offices are connected and above 90% of our districts are also connected. Plans to connect all schools are at advanced stage.
- In the long run, the updated curriculum will produce a selfsustaining mechanism, whereby schools will be able to carry out projects through the learning process and these processes should be able to support some of the needs of the schools. For example the agriculture and enterprise projects.
- All secondary schools were issued Advanced Zim-Science kits – the same church, Government and satellite schools.
These are the efforts that Government is doing to reduce gaps in terms of the balance implementation. We will continue to call upon
Honourable Members to assist in reducing this gap in their Constituency Development programmes especially through CDF. Parents should contribute towards the development by giving the necessary support.
NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING AT TONGOGARA REFUGEE CAMP 33. HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister for Home Affairs to state the number of people living at Tongogara Refugee Camp and to form the House whether their children are given primary documents.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): The number of people living at Tongogara Refugee Camp can be confirmed with the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare who are responsible for refugees. The Department of the
Registrar General in collaboration with the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, however, carry out yearly statistic registrations and/or when need arises to give their children primary documents.
PROGRESS REPORT REGARDING THE ZIMBABWE
BROADCASTING CORPORATION PAYMENT OF ROYALTIES TO
ZIMBABWE MUSIC RIGHTS ASSOCIATION
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Media,
Information and Broadcasting Services to give a progress report regarding the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation payment of royalties to Zimbabwe Music Rights Association for the period 2010 to 2017 amounting to US$593 089.00, considering that the non-payment of royalties adversely affects the livelihood of musicians who rely on such royalties.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
The Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation (ZBC) relies on music for most of its radio and some television programmes. The national broadcaster recognises the critical role played by musicians whose products drive programming. Without these products, the national broadcaster would not be able to run its programming which is centred on 75% local content.
As a result, ZBC is committed to promoting Zimbabwe musicians through the airplay given and the payment of royalties for the music played. It is true that ZBC has a legacy debt with regard to the payment of royalties, which it is currently trying to settle. The national broadcaster has since engaged Zimbabwe Music Rights Association (ZIMRA) and agreed on a payment plan. In a meeting held in 2016 between ZBC and ZIMRA, it was agreed that the national broadcaster should pay off the legacy debt first and then a new agreement for the payment of royalties will be drawn up.
It was also agreed that the royalties rate of 10% of revenue which was agreed upon during the Zimdollar era was too high, unrealistic under the US$ regime and not in tandem with regional trends. The agreed new royalties rate is 2, 25% of revenue and this will be implemented once the legacy debt has been run down. The new rate is in the range of what other regional broadcasters are paying. The national broadcaster is currently paying an average of $5 000 per month to run down the legacy debt which now stands at $478 080 as at 31 April, 2017. Please note that in some months, the national broadcaster pays up to $10 000 as it is committed to ending the debt.
COMPLETION OF THE ENVISAGED DIGITALISATION
PROGRAMME
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Media,
Information and Broadcasting Services to explain:
- when the envisaged digitalisation would be completed since the current analogue system entails that programme logging be done manually.
- explain how the Ministry intends to deal with the following challenges to assist artists;
- the handling of some information which would be left out when manual logging is done;
- handwriting can be illegible, disadvantaging the artists;
- ensuring that log sheets submission to Zimbabwe Music Rights Association which may be too faint to read, do not further disadvantage the artists; and
- ensuring some programmes are not completely left out, particularly during night programmes by the Zimbabwe
Television.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
ZBC is currently in the process of digitalising the radio studios, replacing analogue equipment with digital equipment. It is work in progress whose completion can only be determined by the availability of funding to finish the project.
A meeting has since been done between ZBC and ZIMURA where it was agreed that quarterly meetings will be held to review the whole process. So far, a new form has been introduced which the two entities agree will ensure that all relevant information is captured.
ZBC and ZIMURA have since agreed that all handwritten forms should be in capital letters to ensure it can be read easily. ZBC shall ensure that the forms submitted are not faint.
Both television and radio are logging their programmes as a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP). While some of our programmes are played at night, they are prepared during the day and management shall ensure that all programming is logged and accounted for. The music playlist is actually compiled by Music Committees to ensure accountability.
PROGRESS ON REGISTRATION AND OPERATIONS OF
CHURCHES
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Women Affairs and Gender Development to inform the House on the progress made in implementing the recommendations by the Thematic Committee on Gender Development that Government should regulate registration and operation of churches participation in the legislation to curb violence on women and girls in churches.
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN AFFAIRS, GENDER AND
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIKWINYA): Mr.
President, let me begin by acknowledging the concern raised by Hon.
Sen. Timveos. Let me highlight that as the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development, we appreciate the work that has been done by the Committee on Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development through undertaking public hearings on ending child marriages. It is through these hearings that issues raised are now being put forward for debate to make us all accountable and provide recourse where there is need. I am glad to state that my Ministry undertook to mobilise women and communities to participate in these public hearings and they did so as it is amongst their responsibilities to mobilise communities, including churches, to participate in Government programmes.
Mr. President, let me clarify that it is not within the mandate of the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development to regulate the operations of churches in Zimbabwe. However, we work together with churches and engage church bodies with the aim of mainstreaming gender issues through training and capacity building. Let me share with you some of the work we have been doing with churches. In 2016, the Union for the Development of Apostolic Churches in Zimbabwe (UDACIZA) developed its Gender Policy which is meant to effectively empower UDACIZA and affiliated church leaders to transform religious communities and congregations to be active agents of change in the elimination of violence against women and girls.
The policy seeks to discourage adverse religious beliefs and practices, thereby encouraging faith-based communities to be more gender-sensitive and responsive to gender equality and the GBV needs of their respective communities.
The gender policy is also aimed at enhancing the capacity of the church to engage in GBV prevention activism, to speak out on positive faith-based norms and the unacceptability of the crime.
The formulation of such policies as the UDACIZA Gender Policy is in line with Section 56 (3) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which outlaws unfair treatment of any person on the grounds of sex, gender, culture, religious beliefs, marital status, age, disability, economic or social status among others.
My Ministry has also been working with the Apostolic Christian Council of Zimbabwe (ACCZ) amongst others, in providing training to community based volunteers amongst their congregants. The training that has been put in place will continue in providing these community based volunteers, that is women, men and religious leaders with basic information on Gender Based Violence so that they develop skills that will enable them to control the menace of gender based violence within their communities.
This has led to congregants reporting any forms of abuse, be it sexual, physical or emotional. If Hon. Senators visit courts to follow proceedings, quite a number of church members see their way to jail.
As I humbly submit my response, let me once again highlight that my Ministry has no mandate to regulate the operations of churches in this country. Our role is to raise awareness on the causes and effects of gender based violence, the provisions of the legislation in relation to gender based violence as well as ensure effective mainstreaming of gender in activities of these churches with the broad aim of empowering women and communities and bringing to an end the problem of gender based violence in Zimbabwe. Thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E. D.
MNANGANGWA): Madam President, I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 1 to 5 and 7 to 10 be stood over until Orders of the Day, Numbers 11, 12 and 6 have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I wish to
announce that the Senate has received the Immovable Property Security Interest Bill [H.B7A, 2016] from the National Assembly. It will therefore be on Second Reading on Tuesday next week.
COMMITTEE STAGE
JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDMENT BILL (EASE OF SETTLING
COMMERCIAL AND OTHER DISPUTES) [H.B.4A, 2016]
Eleventh Order read: Committee Stage: Judicial Laws Amendment Bill (Ease of Settling Commercial and Other Disputes) [H.B.4A, 2016].
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 12 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDMENT BILL (EASE OF SETTLING COMMERCIAL AND OTHER DISPUTES) [H.B.4A, 2016].
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE
,LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E. D.
MNANGAGWA): Madam President, I move that the Bill be read the
third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
COMMITTEE STAGE
DEEDS REGISTRY BILL [H.B.3A, 2016]
Twelfth Order read: Committee Stage: Deeds Registries Bill [H.B.
3A, 2016].
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 4 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
DEEDS REGISTRY BILL [H.B.3A, 2016] THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E. D.
MNANGAGWA): I move that the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD
MARRIAGES
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on SADC Model law on eradicating Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Madam President, I would like to thank Hon. Sen.
Mohadi for raising the motion on the SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriages and protecting children already in marriage, this is an indication that Hon. Members are committed in protecting our girls. As the Ministry responsible for women empowerment, gender equality and community development, we are glad that SADC has passed a model law that speaks on issues of child marriage.
The law was developed by the South African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC PF) and has the potential to shape how the region addresses child marriages.
The passing of the SADC Model law on eradicating child marriages and protecting children already in marriage is a welcome development for Zimbabwe because currently the alignment of marriage laws to our Constitution, of making the marriageable age of both girls and boys to 18 years is still in progress. This presents an opportunity for
Zimbabwe to align the laws on marriage to the SADC Model law.
Madam President, the SADC Model law is in line with most of the International and Regional Instruments this country is party to, for example, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), Article 12 states that “the betrothal and the marriage of a child shall have no legal effect and all necessary action, including legislation shall be taken to specify a minimum age for marriage and to make the registration of marriages in an official registry compulsory”.
Further, Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides that “men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intended spouses”.
Some of the provisions in the SADC Model law are also in our laws. It is important to adopt provisions that work for our country and protect our girl children. For example, the SADC Model law has provisions that gives emphasis on the protection of the rights of the child, for instance the right to health, education, registration of birth, protection from discrimination, protection from exploitation and abuse, amongst others which are also the same provision found in our children’s Act as well as our Constitution on Section 81.
The Constitution of Zimbabwe on Section 26, states that the State must take appropriate measure to ensure that children are not pledged in marriage. This is also a provision which is included in the SADC Model law. Madam President, in the Commission on the Status of Women 61 recommendations; the Commission strongly condemns violence against women and girls, including harmful cultural practices which include child marriages as these are a major impediment to achieve women empowerment.
Madam President, I concur with all of you on the domestication of provisions of the Model Law as part of our statutes so that we can put an end to this scourge. Madam President, Let me just encourage Hon. Senators to read through the SADC Model law on eradicating child marriages and protecting children already in marriage so that when the law is brought to Parliament we will make informed contributions. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Minister, I wish
to thank you and your Ministry for being the first Ministry to respond to the motions tabled in this House, may you never tire of doing that. We thank you very much, it is appreciated.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2017.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA,
INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MATHUTHU) the Senate adjourned at Seven Minutes to Five o’clock
p.m. until Tuesday, 16th May, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE
ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS ANNUAL
GENERAL MEETING
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that all members of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary caucus are advised that the annual general meeting has been rescheduled following its failure to take off on the 5th May, 2017 due to lack of quorum. The meeting will be held tomorrow, Wednesday, 17th May, 2017 in the Senate Chamber at 0900hrs. Members are requested to bring their documents to enable fruitful deliberations.
INVITATION TO A CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I also wish to inform
the House that there will be a Catholic Service tomorrow, Wednesday, the 17th May, 2017 at 1200hrs in the Senate Chamber. All members who are Catholics and those who are not Catholics are invited.
SECOND READING
MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B. 7A,
2016]
First Order read: Second Reading: Movable Property Security Interests Bill (H.B. 7A, 2016).
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, I rise to
present the Movable Property Security Interests Bill [H.B. 7A, 2016], for consideration by this august House. The main principle objective of this Bill is to provide a framework within which movable property may be used as collateral or security for purposes of obtaining loans upon reasonable terms from the financial services sector, that is from the commercial banks.
Madam President, in order to allow a wider demography of our citizens access to bank loans at reasonable interest rates and in equal measure, to provide players in the financial sector the additional comfort offered by security, we have considered it fit to introduce this Bill to spare enterprise development and at the same time to promote stability in the financial services sector.
Principally, Madam President, the initiative entails the establishment of a collateral registry of movable property such as machinery, automobiles, inventory and account receivables. The registry will serve as a central source of information and will facilitate commerce, industry and other economic activities by enabling individuals and business to utilise their movable assets as collateral for credit, thereby injecting vitally important liquidity into their respective enterprises. The initiative promotes the availability of credit by significantly diminishing the risk assumed by lenders as they may bond movable assets as collateral and have immediately available recourse where a borrower defaults in loan repayment.
As alluded to, in the 2016 National Budget Statement, access to finance is one of the most important components for sustainable business and economic growth in any economy in the world.
However, Madam President, the majority of Zimbabweans are not able to access credit from financial institutions due to lack of acceptable security in the form of immovable property such as houses or factories which are traditionally preferred by formal lending institutions. This Bill seeks to specifically address this gap.
Madam President, the collateral registry system is aimed at achieving the following:
- providing a mechanism for efficient registration of security interests in movable property and realisation of such interest in the event of a default of payment by borrowers;
- it seeks to provide the creation and perfection of movable
security interests;
- providing a platform to inform parties and the public about the existence of a security interest in movable property and
- the collateral registry will be established as a department of the Reserve Bank headed by a Registrar appointed by the Governor of the Central Bank.
Madam President, with respect to enabling legislative framework, currently, the legal frame dealing with secured transactions is fragmented and needs to be consolidated and modernised in line with international best practices. The current laws governing this subject are in five pieces of legislation namely:
- The Deeds Registries Act,
- The Hire Registries Act,
- The Bills of Exchange Act,
- The Grain Marketing Act, and
- The Agricultural Finance Act, among others.
This system is inefficient, costly and lacks the transparency required to support the growth of secured lending transactions.
This Bill will provide for a holistic approach towards the utilisation of movable assets as collateral by harmonising the entire relevant Acts.
In this regard, even the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act and the Banking Act will be amended for the financial sector to achieve the intended objective of this Bill.
Creation of security interest by execution of security agreement
Madam President, the Collateral Registry will register the security interest provided the debtor has the rights in the movable asset. Such assets may include any type of movable assets such as machinery, automobiles, inventory, livestock and account receivables.
Collateral Registry Fees
The operations of the Collateral Registry would be funded through levying of cost recovery fees and charges to be specified in the regulations. The fees may be charged for registration, amendment and cancellation of notices.
Consumer Protection
In order to protect the borrower from inaccurate information being registered in the Collateral Registry, the Bill will ensure that any information that is registered would be confirmed and authorised by the borrower.
Access of Information to the Public
Madam President, currently lenders have limited information regarding the borrowers. For example, if a lender is considering a loan to a small or medium-size enterprise, one of the biggest deterrents is the possibility that the borrower has already given its assets as collateral to another lender which evolves into a dispute involving lenders concerning whose debt is superior to the other.
The Bill will therefore create a reliable and affordable public registration system to allow lenders and the public to see which assets have been pledged as collateral by the borrower which will assist the lenders in making a more informed business decision when advancing a
loan.
Benefits of a Collateral Registry
The expected benefits of a Collateral Registry are as follows:
- Promoting financial inclusion since most economic agents including SMEs, women, youths and other under-banked groups currently experience challenges in accessing financial services due to lack of immovable property often required for collateral purposes;
- Increased access to credit through reducing the risk of credit;
- Improving competition in the financial sector by enabling both banks and non-bank financial institutions to offer secured loans; and
- Reducing cost of credit through reduced interest rates as economic units move from informal to formal financing.
Experiences in Other Countries
Madam President, many countries regionally and internationally have established collateral registries over the last few decades. These include Liberia, Ghana, Malawi, Kenya, Lesotho, Rwanda, China, Peru, Mexico and Ukraine, among many others.
Studies show that collateral registries have substantial economic impact. A study conducted in 2013 found that in countries that have introduced collateral registries, access to bank finance increased by 8% and the terms increased by six months whilst interest rates declined by
3% per annum on average.
Conclusion
In conclusion Madam President, the proposed Collateral Registry will bring substantial benefits to the economy including enhancement of the participation of MSMEs in the mainstream financial sector through the growth of secured lending in Zimbabwe.
In view of the anticipated benefits from the establishment of the Collateral Registry, I hereby table the Bill to introduce the new legislation for the establishment of a Collateral Registry before this august House for consideration. I therefore move that the Movable Property Security Interests Bill be now read for the second time. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: Thank you Madam President. I rise to very briefly make some comments on this Bill which in my view is a very good Bill and is a very important and progressive development. I actually think this is what is called thinking outside the box. When we have got challenges and problems facing us, more often than not we tend to look at the conventional and the usual ways out fof solutions. We tend to look at history and see how other people have done it and so on. There is nothing wrong with that but we should also be brave, bold to look at other ways of doing things, avoid being conventional and doing things the way we have traditionally done it for ages and ages.
Therefore, the way this Bill has been crafted, the framework which has been introduced by the Minister this afternoon, to me is a very progressive way of broadening the production base of this economy and our capacity as a nation to generate wealth and export products, which is what we need badly at this point in time.
We are mourning about the lack of capacity to produce and about the high cost of production because the majority of our people do not have access to capital. Up to now, the majority of the people who have had access to capital are those with title because our financial institutions traditionally have always insisted on collateral security mostly in the form of immovable property. How many of us have got immovable property? Actually, the majority of Zimbabweans do not have immovable property. That is the stark reality of our situation.
Therefore, the coming of this Bill is addressing that very big gap which has existed in this country, which in my view the Minister has been bold enough to accept that we have been lacking but above all, to address so that we broaden our means of production. I would like to commend the Minister in that this is going to see many of our people such as youths, women and SMEs. All these people, as a result of this particular Bill are going to be able to access loans and capital because they will be able to use their movable assets to access capital.
What this entails is that if this is carried out successfully; I actually like the features which the Minister has described which will ensure that those movable assets are going to be vetted and ensure that they are bona fide movable assets. Once we do that, we will certainly see growth in terms of production and our economy. We should also be able to produce more so that we export and create wealth, which is what we need to do at the present moment; to create wealth, so as to bring in more finances and resources into this country. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. B SIBANDA: I rise to make a few comments on the
Bill. The first comment is that I applaud and will always do, a determination to give opportunity without necessarily handing out. The second thing is to enquire from the Minister about our banking institutions which are traditionally known to be conservative in terms of loan behaviour. How much consultation and buy-in has been undertaken or given by the banks? Thirdly, how are we going to prevent behind the scenes disposal of assets that have been registered in the collateral register? Finally, I am at sea as to the level of liquidity in the country to be able to support what could be substantial demand for lending at this point in time in the country. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: This Bill that has been brought in by Hon. Chinamasa is a good thing for Zimbabwe. We know how difficult it was for women to get loans from the bank. Many-a-time they were told to bring their husbands even if they have houses. It was very difficult but now we see that women who are doing their projects are getting a chance to get into the mainstream economy. This will enable Government to also collect revenue from the women. Our women are going to be happy and this Bill and the women’s bank are both welcome.
The women’s bank is going to help a lot of women who engage in projects to uplift their lives and the lives of their families.
We would like to thank the Minister so much because I think the Government will be helped as well, especially in these times that we are in where the country is running backed by an informal economy. If there is a chance that women can get loans using this registry, it will help us so much. We want to thank the Minister for such a brilliant idea and realising that if you leave women behind, we will not progress as a nation.
*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I would like to find out if it is possible that a person who wants to get a loan and knows that Sen Chimhini has money and wants to borrow that money to use as implied by the Minister but the person refuses to give me money because they will say we do not agree with what the Minister has said. Can the Minister explain to us whether there is a law that will help us to get loans from those people who refuse to give out loans so that we do not become happy, yet the law will be difficult to implement.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I also rise to support this Bill. It has been a long wait for such a Bill to be brought to this House. As women, we were the most privileged because women are known to be the poor of the poorest and could not afford collateral in the form of money. Now as women, we are very happy. As a woman from Matabeleland South, where there are goats and cattle, we are now going to use those as collateral. It is a great achievement to use our livestock as collateral. Minister, I applaud you for coming up with this Bill. Without much ado Madam President, I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I want to applaud the Minister for this very important Bill which he has brought to the House. I support the Bill and we are looking forward to it because all along only the urbanites with properties in town were being favoured in terms of loans. I support this Bill because a lot of people in the rural areas, people with livestock, who are farmers can use what they have as security to access loans from the financial sectors so as to be able to source fertilizers. Minister, I applaud you for this Bill which is very broad and catering for all Zimbabweans so that they can access loans from the banks. Thank you for your vision.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I did not know that I would be speaking. A lot of people who spoke before me aired their views concerning women. Thank you Hon. Minister Chinamasa for bringing this Bill. We remember women, particularly widows and the disabled, some of them even have cars as well as livestock but they could not do anything. I was requested by some other women last week to request that they be allowed to pay for their houses cheaply after the death of their husbands. The Minister should also help so that they can get collateral for their houses. Now there is a new way for them to get collateral and that means a lot to me. Even people in rural areas can now be considered for collateral because they have their livestock which they will bring as collateral so as to access loans to expand their farming operations. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I want to thank the Minister for
bringing this Bill to this House. All these years especially in the rural areas we were facing challenges that you could have your beautiful house at the township but the house was considered as valueless because you could not use it as collateral. You could own a lot of cattle but they were not accepted because they were not immovable property, but now I think if this Bill is passed, it will be easy for us in the rural areas.
I also want to add that what is left now is for our banks that were used to the old system that if you did not have immovable property you were not credit worthy. These banks are going to be compelled by this law to accept the wealth that I have at my homestead or in my rural areas so that I will be able to get a loan to start a business. It has been said before that if we do that, it will be easy for us to start our businesses which will enable us to export. Our economy is agro based and if we are able to get loans, we will be able to farm and export our products so that our economy will grow. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I rise to thank the Minister for bringing
in this important Bill. I want clarification on that fact that our country is full of informal businesses, does this Bill include furniture items such as sofas to be used as collateral? Most informal traders have houses that have a lot of furniture but when they want to borrow, they are denied credit. Like what the Chairperson of the Women’s Caucus has said, surely if you include furniture as collateral, many women will benefit and the informal sector will be happy. On everything that you have said concerning this Bill, I want to commend you very much. I thank you. *HON SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Madam President. A lot
of things that I wanted to say have been said by other Hon. Senators but let me say that I am thankful for this Bill which has been brought in by our Minister. On behalf of the women and youth who are not represented here, I want to thank you Minister for bringing this Bill. A long time ago there were pawn shops where you could take your furniture as collateral for a loan but now with this Bill you have laid out the rules. Here in the urban areas, if you go to Hopley suburb, you find that there are a lot of houses that have been built but the residents do not have title deeds. Yes, they are building huge houses but they do not have title deeds to borrow money from the banks. So, we are really thankful for this Bill. We are also grateful for the idea that banks can give out money to those people with brilliant and innovative ideas. The absence of such a facility was hampering a lot of progress in this country. A lot of people have ideas and they have the strength to work but for them to get the capital was a problem. We really appreciate the introduction of this Bill because for it to happen it shows that people have faith in what you want to do.
Minister, is there a ceiling on the money that one can borrow or it varies with the things that you have. The issue of implementation has been touched by the previous speakers and I want to thank Hon. Senators who have contributed because we have a lot of wealth in our country, especially in the rural areas. Many people have goats, sheep, cattle and even quail birds but they did not know how to use them. Some people were just looking at it as inheritance for their children but these assets will now have value placed on them, especially in light of what Hon. Dokora was saying that there is a lot of wealth out there which can be used by people for trading. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: I want to thank the Minister for the Bill
that you have brought in this House. It is good for all the people as what the other speakers have said. What has excited me is that this Bill will give value to domestic animals which are not immovable. My question is that there comes a time when a person declares those movable assets and then a drought occurs and animals die. In the event of a disaster, what would happen to such an arrangement because for immovable property to be guaranteed, it was because a house was built on a fixed place. Can the Minister explain to us what would happen when someone declares a movable asset and natural disaster happens?
+HON. SEN. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President for the
opportunity that you have given to me so that I can make my comments on the Bill that has been brought by Minister of Finance and Economic Development. This Bill is quite good. Hon. Senators have said that when women want to access loans they are asked a lot of questions whether they have title deeds or whether they are married as a way of denying them access to loans even though they have such things. I have title deeds but I have more access to a loan with these title deeds because I am not quite sure whether I will be able to pay their loan with my title deeds. With this Bill, we thank you Minister. It will be easy for us to approach the bank with our properties. They will not fail to give you the loan if you declare your things. I thank you very much Minister. In Matabeleland South, I do not think you will not fail to access a loan from the banks, particularly Agribank helps us. We have livestock and mines and others have such things. I do not see that we will fail to access loans. I am representing women from Matabeleland South. I thank you. *HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Madam President
and how are you today? I want to thank the Minister for the Bill that he brought in. A lot has been said about the Bill which is very important and exciting. I stood up to greet the Minister, how are you Minister, work very hard with the Bill that you have brought into this House which is very exciting and which is very important in Zimbabwe. On behalf of the poor men like me who were having problems in getting loans when they are able to engage in businesses, we want to thank you.
My question is if it is goats’, cattle, the loan that you will be getting, how long will that loan be repaid? You should also encourage us Zimbabweans that if we are given the loans, we should repay them instead of lying that the animals have been killed by natural disasters.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUBANE: Thank you Madam
President. Mine is to thank the Minister. It is a pro-poor Bill. If you are considered to be somebody in society, one of those things that people consider is the immovable property, houses. As alluded to before by
Hon. General Nyambuya, most of the people in this country do not have houses. So, this Bill will come in a long way in assisting the less privileged members of the society.
Secondly, I would want to thank the Minister. I think you will take the burden from the people, off the people that have been abused by the so called loan sharks, somachonisa because they could not access banks because of the demands that were there. I would want to find out Hon. Minister, you know that every good thing should be fully explained. The interest rate and the repayment period, we could be happy that we will be able to trade our movable property, but as long as we do not know the interest and the period, we will not know how to go about it.
Finally Minister, I think it is important that there is security of this movable property. It is of no use for me to go to the bank to borrow and I fail to repay the loan. If you look at the number of stories we read in the Press of people who are failing to service their loans, it is alarming. I want to find out from the Minister what measures you have in the Bill to address that? Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: I want to thank the Minister for
bringing in this Bill. Firstly, I would like to thank the Minister because he took time looking at the lives of people in Zimbabwe and he found it befitting to help the poor. My question is, if it takes place, we want to go and get loans and you are a single parent, corruption should not be heard of. Those who are financing first of all look at faces. We want them to help women as women. My question is that I have taken the loan, have a house, children and then nature takes its course and I die. What would happen to my family? Are there ways of easing the lives of my children because death can knock at anytime? So, is there a way to deal with this if death strikes?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam
President and I want to begin by thanking all Hon. Senators for the support that they are giving to this Bill and also for their contribution. Let me say from the outset that what we are doing is an attempt to change the mindsets of our people and it will not be achieved overnight.
The mindset that we are changing is for our people to realise that when they have got these movable assets like sheep and goats, they cannot go out and say I am poor.
A person will have 20 goats and he still has the audacity to tell others that he is a poor person and that he should be able to be dependent on the handouts given by the State. That is the mindset that we want to change. They must realise that they have got assets. Often I am very amused Madam President when in Makoni District, there are a lot of tobacco farmers. You ask one of them what he does and the person will say I am not employed, and yet he is a tobacco farmer delivering tobacco at the Auction Floors.
So, that is the mindset that we want to change. All of us do not think that we can earn a livelihood when working for yourselves and even in terms of our surveys, we exclude all those people who are taking tobacco to the Auction Floors. We tend to regard them as unemployed. It is not correct. Those who are in artisanal mining, we take them as unemployed because we find them having sand all over their bodies and we end up saying they are not employed and yet they are probably richer than some of us. That is the mindset that I think this Bill seeks to change.
We also want people to understand that if you are in the business of rearing cattle, sheep and goats, it is a business and those assets need to be traded. You must never fall into a situation where you cannot pay your children’s school fees and yet you have got 50 head of cattle or you have got 30 goats and you do not pay for your child’s school fees because you do not realise that you can do business from trading in these assets. So, it is very important. I want to emphasise lastly before I respond to specific contributions that all this is because of the structural shift that is happening in our economy.
Personally, I regard it as a good thing that has happened to this country. The collapse of the formal sector had to come because there were only a few people in the formal sector. Let us take for example in the agricultural sector. We were talking about 4 000 farmers. There is no way an economy can grow and expand when a vital productive asset like land is held by one or two people. So, it is important that we realise that because we moved from that ownership of land and now we have the A1 farmers. We distributed that land to about 350 000 households, you can also multiply the number of people who are dependent on that piece of land. Now, that change caused disruption in our productive system. So, initially there was a fall of production, everyone was laughing at us.
However, I cannot see how we could have gone from that skilled land ownership to the current one where it is now owned by the majority of our people, without a transition. There has to be a transition and what we are talking about here Madam President is how to manage that transition from yesterday to today and tomorrow. I am happy to say that we analyse these situations and try to come up with policies that relate to the reality of our situation. We are not doing textbook things; we are relating it to the people. Of course, as we do so, it will take time even for the people themselves to understand that this is an opportunity for them.
Right now our economy is highly informalised. I always give the statistics that in 1999 or thereabout, there were 2 million workers in the formal sector, by the time we reached 2005, because of the revolution in the Land Reform programme, the formal sector collapsed and the 2 million formal workers dwindled to half a million and could be just about less. It is our responsibility to now move that economy from the informal and back to the formal again. That is the transition which we are now travelling. I am very happy with the progress that we are making so far. It is a process and not an event, it cannot happen overnight.
Let me become specific to the contributions. Hon. Sen. Gen. Nyambuya, thank you very much for supporting it, I agree with you entirely. You said that we are thinking outside the box, not quite. You know the people are already ahead of us, this is already happening on the ground. Let me also say that when we talk about borrowing, you could actually be the lender to your brother. It is very important. It is not just the financial institutions we must look at as the lending institutions or the lenders. Anyone of us can be a lender to all of us. So, we must look at it in that light and we are now providing a legal framework so that you can lend in the comfort that there is security, in the event that things may go wrong.
We also need to change the mindset of our people in the sense that, when you borrow, things can go wrong. That is the risk of doing business. Hon. Senators, now, we do not want a situation where when things go wrong, when someone’s cow is being taken away, you then come and say it is not politically unacceptable, it is a contradiction in terms – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – When you borrow and have given security, you may not be able to pay for various reasons. Some of the risks, you insure against but some you may not have insured or anticipated. There are those other risks and causes of default where the person has just been fraudulent, those are different.
However, in the majority of cases, I think that we need to change the mindset of the person who is borrowing and also us who are neighbours to say, when it happens, you must take it as it should happen.
If you default, someone must come and claim. That is the contract, it is not new, but we always want to borrow and we do not want to see people suffer who are now being taken to court or something for failure to pay. So, you are quite right thinking outside the box but I also want to say people are more advanced in terms of lending and borrowing. What we are only doing here is providing a framework under which they can do so with the security that this will create.
There is no way we can create wealth and I am supporting Hon.
Sen. Gen. Nyambuya’s statement here. You cannot create wealth using own resources. You cannot raise yourselves using your own boot straps. You can yes, but the journey maybe too long to a point where you never reach where you want to go until you are an old man. So those who have initiatives cannot grow businesses without borrowing.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Old man or woman – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. CHINAMASA: Thank you very much Madam President.
What I want to emphasise for both men and women, if we are to grow our businesses, our living standards – it could be building a house or even buying a cow, we cannot avoid always borrowing. What is important is; for what purpose are you using the money you are borrowing? Will it come back? That is what the lender wants to know also. If I give you money, what activity are you doing or undertaking which gives me comfort that it is generating cash flows which can pay back what I am lending to you. That is the discussion. I want to say to Hon. Sen. Gen. Nyambuya, thank you very much for your support. This will help to broaden the productive base which is something that is very important to grow the economy. It will also increase access to capital by a majority of our people.
At the moment, our biggest challenge in the economy, especially with SMEs, with the informal sector, is access to capital. When I go round, I can vouch that the people now have general skills to undertake their activities. The skill is there to an extent of some managerial skills also and technology. However, the thing they lack most is access to capital and that is what we are trying to assist.
Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda, yes the banking institutions are conservative, but when I talk about mindsets, I am talking not only about the mindsets of us individuals but of institutions also. The way I see it is that – and this is what we tell the banking institutions, if they do not face up to the reality of our situation, they will be out of business sooner or later. This is because the business of a lending institution is to lend money. If you are not lending, you get broke. You make money from the interest you charge when lending to people. If you do not lend, and as it is, they may say, we only lend to established firms but the base of established firms is reduced. So, in the end you cannot avoid lending to people who are plying their trade in the informal sector.
Madam President, what I am aware of is that, most financial institutions or banks now have a macro-financing window to address and attend to small economic players. Clearly, yes they are conservative but we have to shift their mindsets and we do so – I know many of them have visited and sent teams to India, Bangladesh, essentially to understand how big commercial entities can lend to small people. I am happy to say that there is now a growing base of macro-financial institutions in the country. I think in total you have something like 160 or so macro-financial lending institutions. I think only five of them are deposit taking, the rest cannot take deposits. They can only come with their capital and lend out. I am happy to say that this is already taking place. It increases the level of liquidity in the economy.
How do you prevent disposal – these are issues I do not have an answer to right now but we will learn from the experiences of other countries. They will be dealt with and addressed in the regulations. What happens if a cow which is collateral dies – I think those are issues that are addressed through insurance and I am sure that insurance schemes will also come handy. You can see the ripple effect it will have in the entire economy - the insurance companies will also come in, I am sure and so on. However, all these issues will be dealt with in the regulations.
Hon. Sen. Mustvangwa, thank you very much for your support to the Bill, in particular, we are talking about women, youth, economic players who are in the informal sector. Clearly, we cannot leave women behind and in this case they are very much in the forefront of informal businesses. I am going to commission a study, Madam President, to do a survey of the informal sector. We have got a regional company which is specialized in conducting those surveys. We are doing a survey of the informal sector; we want to know how many they are. We also want to know what specific activities they are doing, the environment, and the location - are they under a tree or in some accommodation.
Now, on the basis of information that we will gather, we will be able to form informed decisions which can be the basis of our policy formulation, so we will do this undertaking. We also want to know how many women, how many are the youth, the elderly, and the disabled, are business people in the informal sector, if I may make reference to a contribution made later. All that information will be very useful to formulate our policies.
Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda – how much consultations have taken place in the banking institutions, in fact the banking institutions are supporting this Bill to the yield for different reasons I suppose. Their main interest in this Bill is the creation of a Collateral Registry. The problem that we have identified as being the cause of many non-performing loans are people who hop from one banking institution to another borrowing without any intention to pay back. This is because there was no framework under which one bank could go to another and say who has borrowed for you. That information was treated as confidential.
Now, Collateral Registry will basically tell us not just people who are borrowing, small like we are talking about but they will have a register of all borrowers and a banking institution can access that information before it considers a loan to any person who comes to borrow. Because of the Collateral Registry, it will mean that the bank at least is now better placed to avoid people who will give rise to bad nonperforming loans especially those who are just fraudsters in a way who walk from one bank to another to borrow. This is to combine it or to complement the Credit Reference Bureau which as you know, we passed in this august House through the Banking Amendment Bill which is now law. So, we are trying to tighten up on credit, with a view basically to avoid the bad apples and I think we will get there.
Hon. Sen. Chimhini, thank you very much for your support. You raised a question - can we force banks to lend? No, we cannot. Like I mentioned, banks’ main business is to lend but they want to lend to good borrowers who will use the money for the purpose for which it is borrowed and who will be able to pay. That is the relationship you will have between yourself and the bank. We cannot say for instance,
Senator Chimhini, go to Barclays; and say you must lend to Senator Chimhini, who wants to build a house or buy cattle. If we do that it will not work. In fact, it may well end up that Senator Chimhini will end up borrowing just to go and marry other women. Muzukuru ndakukutsvinyira manje. You do not borrow to go and pay lobola; a woman is not a tractor.
Hon. Sen. Mohadi, thank you very much for the support and like you have mentioned, we are including livestock, that includes cattle, goats and sheep. What it means basically Madam President, is that the inclusion of livestock will entail a system of identification. We cannot just say a cow; it means we are talking about branding. Especially with branding, we are now talking about cattle tags so that the beast will be clearly identified. With respect to what happens to those who breach, we will certainly come up with regulations that will criminalise disposal without the consent of the lender.
I know branding is an exercise that has already been started by the
Ministry of Agriculture. It is still at its infancy stage but the police and Ministry of Agriculture have been encouraging branding cattle so as to minimize theft and also to make it easier to trace any stray animals. It becomes easier if in fact it is branded and it has cattle tags.
Hon. Sen. Mkwebu, thank you very much for your support. You
are very right that this is basically targeting livestock mainly cattle, goats and sheep. If a person has got his cattle and wants to borrow fertilizer inputs, it should be made possible and generally as you know in our Presidential Input Scheme, we are just talking about two bags - one bag AN, one bag compound D and 10kg seed. Now, the total of that is something like maybe US$65 to US$70. If we have farmers who have two or three beasts to borrow that, they will know that they can pay the money back. That is basically what we are just thinking about. Let us leverage the asset that we have to create more wealth. That is what is behind this Bill.
Hon. Sen. Khumalo, thank you very much for again supporting the Bill. You raised the issue about people who are disabled that, will they also benefit – clearly, yes. I see no problem and this is why we need to have that survey so that we are able to know what numbers we are talking about for sound policy formulation.
Hon. Sen. Chipanga, thank you very much for supporting the Bill. If I may take this opportunity Madam President, to explain what we are seeking to do. For example, in the horticulture we are going to come up with a command horticulture, not just for local consumption but also for exports. We have the advantage here in that we are a non-GMO country, non-GMO food has very good natural taste. GMO food has no taste and worldwide there is a scramble to buy non-GMO food across the board. So, we should exploit that situation in order to basically increase our exports in horticulture and any agricultural products. It is very key and for that of course, we need irrigation to boost our production.
I am happy to say that we will soon be announcing command irrigation, not just for communal, A1, A2, institutions such as prisons which has land, ARDA and so on. We want to push in a very strong way irrigation development. We should never be in a situation where we cry when there is drought. This past season has shown that God loves us. If we do not take advantage of the gifts that we receive from the Almighty, it is not His problem. It is the problem of His people –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
Hon. Sen. Timveos, thank you very much. Of course, the collateral will include furniture but I would respectfully ask that you do not give your bed. Use the refrigerators, dining room suites, lounge suites as collateral but please do not offer your beds. However, it covers everything. You can actually offer the bed, this is just family advice.
Hon. Sen. Tawengwa, you want to know whether there is a ceiling. No, it is really a relationship between you and the lender and whether he is satisfied with the collateral that you are offering. If the lender is satisfied for whatever amount, a deal will be struck. You made reference to the Pinyoro and so on. What we are doing here is to provide a legal framework that is transparent to both the lender, the borrower and the public, which Pinyoro was not. So, it is quite an improvement from previous systems.
The issue you raise about title deeds is a matter that we are also worrying about. It is amazing how wealthy our people are. In fact, we have a company from the United States which was interested in mortgage lending. They were saying, it looks like all the houses, cars and furniture that you own are for cash, there is no mortgage. There must be an opportunity to leverage those assets to create more wealth. That we are not doing and that we must do. So, we must and we are going to look at why people do have houses and not have title deeds.
We are going to interrogate that so that we can see where we can play a facilitative role for people to have title deeds. Once we have got title deeds, we can leverage almost ten times the value of those assets and that is what will create more wealth for this country.
Hon. Sen. Makore, I think I have already answered you when you asked what happens when a sheep, goat or cow used as collateral dies. Clearly, it is a matter that I think should be handled through insurance in my view.
Hon. Sen. Ndhlovu, thank you very much for supporting the Bill. With respect, you raised an issue about title deeds - I have already mentioned. If you go to any town today and I always give the example of a town in my constituency Rusape, there is massive expansion in residential housing. All those stands have no title deeds – [AN HON. SENATOR: Ah.] – Yes, there are no title deeds; it is just an agreement of sale from the local authority and they are given conditions that you must put some permanent structure within a given timeframe. That is all, there are no title deeds. What I think is important is to convert those assets to create more wealth, to leverage them as collateral. That is something that we are looking at to see how this can be done or where we can play a facilitative role.
Hon. Sen. Machingaifa, thank you very much for supporting the Bill. I thank you and especially that this Bill will certainly help the poor. I do not want to call them the poor because if they have got assets they are not poor. This is a term we use very loosely. If you have got 15 goats, how can we say we are poor? We know the goats give calves almost twice a year and sometimes they can produce twins or triplets. How can you be called poor? I get your point. Clearly, it is supporting that class of people whom all along were marginalised. We are trying to lift them from that situation.
Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungubane, thank you very much for supporting this Bill and I take the point that hopefully with the coming of this Bill and this law, it will do away with loan sharks. However, you cannot always prevent it, it is always very difficult. Sometimes people do not want the hassle of filling any forms, going to the registry and they always try to choose the easy way. The easy way generally is to the loan sharks. Nothing is written down but the loan shark just enforces through his muscle. I am sure we are all aware of that. Generally, people end up being exploited in the process.
Hon. Sen. Chimanikire, thank you for supporting the Bill. I want to conclude Madam President by saying the major focus of this Bill is to change the mindset of our people so that they accept that they have got assets and that they treat those assets in a business-like manner so as to create more wealth for the country. With that response, I now move that the Bill be now read for a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B. 7A,
2016]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 13 put agreed to.
First and Second Schedules put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B. 7A,
2016]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move that the Bill be
read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move that Order of the
Day, Number 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday 23th May, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Madam President, I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. BUKA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday 17th May, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to debate the motion on Sustainable Development Goal No. 3. We had a tour of some hospitals as well as having people from Ministry of Health and Child Care and from the National Nutrition as well as from the Pharmaceutical Industry. My major interest is on the issues which were raised - in particular which relate to diseases such as cancer, diabetics and high blood pressure. These diseases are usually called non communicable diseases because we cannot pass them to the next person.
These diseases are caused generally by poor feeding practices of individuals. So, we would like to encourage ourselves as we are here that we should eat properly. We were told that the Government was putting money aside to help in combating these diseases. I am saying while the Government is helping us, can we also help the Government by eating properly. I know some people will say I am obese or I am overweight and I do not have these diseases. This is because maybe genetically, as we are going to discuss it later as you heard our previous speaker last week stating that sometimes the problems we have as children affect us as adults. Maybe you were a lucky person and you never had the problems and you are not susceptible to these diseases.
However, those who eat properly delay in getting cancer and once it is discovered that you have the cancer, if you eat properly, it may slow down the moving of the cancer in your body. So, eating properly can help us in many ways. It was recommended that some of these diseases come because we like sugar, salt and alcohol. Those are the three major foods that increase our susceptibility to diseases.
Therefore, we are requesting you as Members of Parliament that wherever you go, discuss these issues so that you combat these diseases. At the present moment, the discussions also said can we help in reducing obesity among children because when these children get obese while they are young, as they grow old, they are going to get these diseases earlier than usual. We discussed the issue of wasting of children. We were happy to learn that the stunting and wasting in Zimbabwe has been reduced. We used to have 30% of our children under five years being stunted.
However, now there has been some improvement and we have 27% of the children who are stunted. What can we do to improve the stunting? Remember these reports are given so that we become helpers of the Government in the reduction of these problems. So, we can improve stunting by ensuring that when we go to our villages or our constituencies, we talk about a balanced diet. What is a balanced diet? It is being able to put nzungu or peanut butter into starchy foods.
It is also being able to add a variety of other foods, the pulses into our foods so that the children eat a balanced diet and that you reduce the bulk by adding fats into the food of the children. Can we all go and tell our constituents that we need just to make ibhizha which has beans and peanut butter. This is going to reduce our stunting so that we become a better nation. We also discussed the issue of the agriculturalist, apart from the programme on the reduction of these problems.
So, the growing of different foods in the areas where we are working, can we encourage our communities to ensure that there are butternuts, pumpkins, carrots as well as vegetables which are added to our food as well as our children’s food so that we reduce the diseases which we have. The eating of pulses help in different ways. It reduces the absorption of cholesterol, cholesterol leads to high blood pressure and so on. Therefore, if we eat some of these foods which we used to eat previously - I have heard many people now saying if they eat beans, they have a problem. I am not refusing that you may have a problem, but substitute the beans with something else. It is us who need to be healthy and be examples when we go out there to be seen eating properly.
We also had Mr. Kembo from the National Nutrition Council who discussed with us the issue of 1000 days. Yes, the Chief discussed 1000 days before but they are not only for the child but to reduce the maternal deaths and poor health of mothers during delivery or after delivery. They need to eat properly within those 1000 days. It is us here who should go and speak in our constituencies and say, those women and girls who are planning to get married should eat properly. This will help so that the child they deliver when they conceive will be up to date and alright – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – The mother will not be anaemic if she would have been eating properly. She will not bleed a lot when giving birth. So it is our wives and daughters whom we should go and protect there in the villages and our constituencies. This is what the programme which we attended entailed.
I would also like to bring the issue of the National Pharmaceutical Company (Natpharm). Natpharm is a pharmaceutical organisation which is like a storeroom of the medicines for the country. I was happy about the fact that they try to reach everywhere but because of the roads which are not in good condition, they leave some of the areas. However, in my concern, I do not think we need to let them be a monopoly. Can we suggest that other pharmaceutical firms be there so that there is competition. If there is no competition, things are expensive and nobody will buy from anywhere else and so they are going to sell at expensive prices.
People are finding medicine very expensive when you visit the pharmacies because we only have one Natpharm. So, can we try and encourage other pharmaceuticals to be involved so that medicine is not expensive because if I enjoy a monopoly, I will sell at whatever price and you have no choice except to buy from me.
There is the issue of breastfeeding. I talked about the 1000 days. As Zimbabweans, I sometimes feel we should be proud because we pioneered these things before they were internationally taken, the issue of exclusive breast feeding. Why exclusive breastfeeding? Exclusive breastfeeding means; no water, porridge or anything until a child is six months. Why? This is because the milk from the mother has all the nutrients which the child needs.
However, some people will say, but this one cries a lot. If that child is always sucking the breast, that child will not cry too much, go and try it – [Laughter.] – and make sure that your children, friends and grand children exclusively breastfeed. If a child is always on the breast, they will not cry, they will be satisfied because crying means it is unsatisfied. Continue breastfeeding.
The children who are continuously breastfed do not get sick. I bet you go and observe and record, a child who is breastfed never gets sick.
This is because the breast milk contains immunity to defend the child. We say, the mother should continue breastfeeding until the child is two years, why? The immunity in the milk defends the child against diarrhoea and other sicknesses. That is why we say feed for 1000 days. The birthday of the child at two years amounts to 1000 days. So, this is 1000 days.
After six months, I am saying, introduce the other foods, but continue breastfeeding so that this child does not suffer from diarrhoea. A child who is breastfed does not generally suffer from diarrhoea. Even if the child is still crawling - you know they say the child is teething and will suffer from diarrhoea, a breastfed child will not have serious diarroea. Go and try it with your relatives and grandchildren at home and encourage them to breastfeed. Therefore, this is what was very interesting for me in our meeting.
Finally, I would like to say each one of us here, go and be a champion of nutrition in your area. You tell the adults about consuming little salt and sugar and avoiding alcohol. The children should be breastfed exclusively for six months and then add a variety of other foods. For those who are likely to have cancer, consume butternuts, the foods which are rich in carotene. A variety of fruits and vegetables will prevent cancer. There it is, I give it to you for free. Thank you Mr.
President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Sen. Khumalo. I know that in the Committee they call her the champion of nutrition, which she is and we welcome that.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF STATELESSNESS
IN AFRICA
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.
MOTION
ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS TO PROTECT DOMESTIC ANIMALS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Just as a
reminder, I think Madam President of the Senate, has said this before, those who have motions on the Order Paper, which have been there for quite some time, we urge you if possible, to wind and withdraw them tomorrow.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Three minutes past
Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 17th May, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
INVITATION TO THE COMMISSIONING OF TOKWE-MUKORSI
DAM
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that all Hon. Members are invited by the Minister of
Environment, Water and Climate to the commissioning of the TokweMkorsi Dam project on 18th May, 2017, at the Dam site in Masvingo
Province from 1145 hours.
Hon. Members, please note that Parliament is unable to provide fuel coupons and accommodation for this event.
COLLECTION OF THE UP-GRADED HIGHWAY CODE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also wish to
inform the House that all Hon. Senators are requested to collect the upgraded Highway Code from the Journals office.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO TH CONSTITUTION
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move the motion standing in my name that this House -
NOTING the efforts made by Government in expanding the education system at primary and secondary levels across the country to meet the demand for education since independence;
APPLAUDING the Government’s decision to embrace all stakeholders in education thereby leading to the creation of School
Development Committees (SDCs) and School Development Association
(SDAs);
FURTHER applauding the excellent work done by parents through the SDCs and SDAs in enhancing the quality of education in Zimbabwe;
DISTURBED by the abrupt decision by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to order the closure of SDAs/ SDCs accounts at Government schools and transfer monies to the Government controlled School Service Fund;
CONCERNED that the move will retrogressively impact on the gains made in the educational system over the years and result in the total collapse of the system;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon the Ministry of Primary and
Secondary Education to;
- align the Education Act to the Constitution;
- cease forthwith the transfer of SDA/ SDCs funds to the
School Service Fund; and
- formulate a consolidated Statutory Instrument to guide the operations of SDCs and SDAs taking into account stakeholders’ input.
HON. SEN. NDLOVU: I second.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Madam President, I request to read most of my content because I am reporting the constitutions of different organisations. So, there is no way I can remember them by head.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: But Hon. Senator,
you are aware that you are supposed to make that arrangement before we come to the House.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I am very sorry, Madam President. Madam President, Zimbabwe is known for its excellent education and a population which is highly educated and interested in education.
Zimbabwe itself boast by its literacy rate which is in the country.
I, therefore, would like to show some of the issues that we are looking at. Others have attributed to the expansion and investment in the education sector to the President of the country who is an educationist. The Government then took the paradigm shift after 1980- 1990, from quantity to quality education which came in 1990 so that the parents can be involved in the education of their children. This therefore, called for the stakeholders, that is parents, school heads, teachers and the communities to be involved. The other reason was the realisation by Government that on its own it did not have the finance which could cover the whole country, so the community was to be involved in order to help the Government. In that instance, the Government advocated for the involvement of parents through the SDCs and SDAs. These were boards which consisted of members who were elected by the community, the parents and other stakeholders who were interested in the education.
The involvement of parents in the education system was not only limited to the urban schools but also to the district areas where the Better
Schools Programme was started so that the parents would be involved. This is the issue where the parents also subscribed to so that there is improvement in the education system.
There comes my concern Madam President, the 2017 Government directive. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education has all of a sudden decreed that all SDCs accounts at Government schools be closed immediately and the funds be put in the SSF fund which is controlled by Government only without parents. The directive is not written; it is an oral directive which has gone to the schools through the education officers. For the benefit of the Members of this august House, let me explain that before this new directive, there were two accounts at the schools - the SSF fund controlled by Government and the SDC account controlled by parents. With the SDC account, the community had to elect people to run it and they levied parents after discussions at the beginning of the year or at an annual meeting, they appointed people to run the fund. The signatories to this fund were the head of the school, the deputy and the chairperson of the SDC and the deputy. All withdrawals would be signed by either the school head or the deputy and then countersigned by the SDC chairperson or the deputy.
Whilst they were doing this, they would make sure that they follow the Ministry’s directive that these SDCs became corporate bodies capable of suing and being sued. It was the SDC account which paid all non-teaching workers at the school and sometimes paid for the teachers so that schools could run in the manner in which they thought was good to give development to the school. In fact, this is the account that ran the schools. Hon. Senators will remember seeing most school buses written Donated by SDC. In fact, all assets at schools were under the SDCs.
The School Service Fund Account
Madam President, the other account at the school is called the
School Service Fund. This account is under the Public Finance
Management. This account is where the Government tuition fees go to. The amount which has to be paid at the present moment in most of the schools is $10. The signatories to this account are restricted to Government employees; the headmaster, his deputy and the senior teacher. No parent has anything to say in this account. Now, we are closing the SDC account where parents were involved and it is this account where they cannot sign or say anything.
The New Directive of 2017
Madam President, it requires transference of the funds from SDCs to SSF. As I have said, it is an unwritten directive but it is being advocated for by the District Education Officers who go to school heads and ask them to put the money into this account. The Ministry’s District Inspectors in their directive cites the provisions of two statutes as justification to this instruction – the Education Amendment Act 2006 as well as the Audit and Exchequer Act, Chapter 22;03. These provisions are Section 8 (1) of the Education Amendment Act, 2006 and Section 30
(1) (b) and Subsection (2) (a)-(c) of the Audit and Exchequer Act
[22:03].
Madam President, it is clear that there are some legal inconsistencies inherent in the Education Amendment Act, 2006 Section 8 (1) to (5) regarding this issue. School Development Committees as I mentioned before are a creation of a statute and the bodies that run them are duly elected by parents and other stakeholders. Following the directive, the role of SDCs in the running of the school in general and the use and application of funds in particular is now unclear. Legally and technically speaking, SDCs have ceased to have authority or power. They are in limbo and they do not know what to do at the present moment due to the following reasons:
- Section 8 (1) is making reference to the Audit and Exchequer Act
[22:03] which was repealed and substituted by the Public Finance
Management Act [22:19];
- The SSF account created or established by Section 8 (1) above for Government schools was not specified on the purpose or uses of the funds as stated in Section 8 (3) (a) to (d) for non-Government schools;
- The Public Finance Management Act [22:19], Section 18 (1) to (11) requires the Treasury to draw up a Fund Constitution; (2) (a) to (c) for the usage and regulation of the fund (SSF) created, and there is no provision for Government schools to draw up their own Fund Constitution for the usage of the money, neither does it allow the SDC Constitution to be used;
- According to Section 18 (5) (c) (i) to (iv), if the constitution drawn up confers that Fund with corporate powers, then that Fund shall be regarded as a corporate body with powers as conferred by its Fund Constitution to control (5) (c) (i) to (iv);
- Subsections (6) to (11) spell out who should be and who should not be involved in this fund and how the assets acquired by this fund are to be treated;
- Subsection (9) provides that subject to any enactment by any or in terms of which the fund is established or in the case of fund establishment in terms of subsection (1), the provisions of the fund constitution thereof, the Treasury may any time direct that any money in such fund shall be paid into the Consolidated Revenue Fund and subsection (10), the Treasury may wind up that fund and shall transfer any monies in that fund to the Consolidated Revenue Fund. The constitution of the current provision of the SSF vests the entire authority for the management and application of this fund with the school head and his/her deputy.
It provides for the establishment of a finance committee made up of five members notably; the School Head and his/her deputy and a senior teacher while the SDC chairperson and the treasurer are relegated to an onlooker role. From this committee, Section 3(c) requires that the appointment of three signatories who, according to subsection (e), shall be the two government employees and these shall authorise any expenditure.
- The said SSF constitution is clear that the SDC chairperson and the treasure sit in the SSF as observers and not as participants.
- If there was a change, the signing arrangement of the SSF account by bringing SDC members it would be in violation of the constitution of the SSF as it should just be the employees of Government.
- The SDC are corporate bodies and parents pay their levies happily because they elect five member executives to manage their affairs and look after the use of their levies together with school administration. Now that these levy funds from the SDC account have been transferred to the SSF account, parents are saying no taxation without representation because if their money is going to
be used without them having anything to say, they are not willing to pump out the money.
- Historically, the SDC treasurer would give the finance report at the SDC Annual General Meeting as a way to enhance transparency to ensure that the parents and other stakeholders appreciate how their money would have been used. In this case the government employees have no right as the constitution does not say they should report to the parents on what their funds have been used for.
- The SSF constitution empowers the school head and his/her deputy to unilaterally authorise expenditure while the SDC is reduced to spectators role. This means that all the SDC statutory functions regarding the application of the “levy funds” are now to be exercised by the head or his/her deputy.
- Section 9 of the Education Amendment Act empowers Treasury to, at any time direct that any money in the SSF account be paid into the Consolidated Revenue Fund subsection (10) vests the Treasury with the power to wind up the fund and transfer any money in that
fund to the Consolidated Revenue Fund. It is clear that there is no SDC role here with regard to the authorization of this transfer given that the only signatories to this account are the two government employees.
- The SDC bursar will be downgraded to an accounts clerk reporting to the government bursar, hence this will trigger labour related litigations. SDCs “as employers” were advised to deal with their legal matters in consultation with the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services but now in this case they are not supposed to. This means that all the SDC employees will remain employed the SDCs but the payment of their salaries being authorised by the school head and/or his/her deputy (government administrators).
The following questions then ensue:
- How is the SDC going to deal employees works performance and labour related legal matters when literally it does not control their remuneration?
- The Labour Act Chapter 28:01 defines an employer as any person whatsoever who employs or provides work for another person and “remunerates or expressly or tacitly undertakes to remunerate him”. Practically, the SDC does not control the remuneration of these employees and looking at this definition, the SDC ceases to be the employer. The employer is now Government through its employees hence the Government cannot surely take control of SDCs funds and then on the contrary refuse the responsibility of the employer.
ALLEGED SDCs CORRUPTION
Madam President, Dr Dokora, in the Sunday Mail of 30th April,
2017 said “the reason why they transferred the funds was to curb the corruption being done by SDCs. While there can be one or two incidences, that cannot be the reason to want to throw the baby with the bathwater. If the Minister’s assertions are correct, one would assume that the law should take its toll by bringing the culprits to book.
Alternatively should the current legal framework have been inadequate, it would be best for the Ministry to tighten the screws so that those who want to dip their fingers into the fund will not be able to do so.
The argument on corruption by SDCs in my view does not hold water. Evidence which is in the public domain is that it is school heads and bursars who have been implicated in matters of corruption so why give them the money. There is nowhere an SDC member can withdraw funds, given that the primary signatory is the school head or his/her deputy. If the reasons given were true, why would the Minister want the money to be transferred from the SDCs account where parents can counter sign withdrawals to the SSF account which is wholly signed by the school head and deputy alone? It means that there is a real reason behind the move and one does not need to go further but look into the recent media utterances by the Minister to deduce the motive and the agenda behind the move.
MEDIA POSTURING
What the media says about why the money is being transferred
Madam President, before the new directive was given the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, through its Minister Dr. Dokora and his deputy Professor Mavhima together with the Permanent Secretary have been quoted in the media and in particular in the Sunday Mail casting the vices around SDCs. It appears the Minister wanted to use the media blitz as a way to sway public opinion against the SDCs. Notably, it is again in these articles that one can understand the real motive of wanting to move or control the funds from SDCs to schools SSF accounts.
The Ministry has been clear that they want to have a hand or it wants to put its hand in the jar of the funds. In their calculation, they claim that there is between $1.2 billion to $2 billion of monies in the SDCs funds nationally in the education system, which they claim is not being used wisely. The Ministry yearns to have control over this money as they believe SDCs are incapable of running schools. In one article in the Sunday Mail, the Ministry actually dreams of creating a central fund where the money will be deposited and administered even before building schools. That means instead of building our school when we have donated our money to our SDC, the money can be taken to go and build anywhere and not what we had planned for our school.
Speculative Reasons
The reasons for the transfer according to the members of the public are as follows:
1.Firstly, the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education basically wants to have a fund to control just like other Ministries like that of Higher and Tertiary Education. The Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education has funds such as ZIMDEF that they control and members are aware of the level of transparency in those funds. We have been hearing in the news what is happening. The Minister basically wants his Ministry to have a fund of their own which they can use as they like, especially that it is $1.2bn which is known to be circulating within the parents.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Senator, you
are an Honourable Member and I have reminded Hon. Senators in this
House time and time again that we are honourable persons and that what we debate in here has to be a proven fact. We cannot just repeat what is in the public domain. We need to keep our dignity and credibility. That is why we are referred to as honourables. We cannot quote as if it is fact about the billion unless you can prove it
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I am saying it is the media –[HON SEN.
TAWENGWA: Are you the megaphone of the media?]-
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Please, I cannot
argue with you but I am just reminding you. That is why I am sitting in this seat so that I guide the debate in this House. I am trying to guide the debate that you are giving to the House.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Secondly, there has been a feeling in the community and remember, each time there has been a youth march, the school buses were taken. The community is of the view that it is the same thing which is going to be done – they have no control when their buses are taken for rallies and marches and they are supposed to repair them. This is what makes the community not happy about their funds being taken.
We have said cry, the beloved country; cry, the beloved education development which has been going on because the parents had worked so hard to ensure that their schools are developed. We hope the Minister and those who are working with him will think carefully about the transfer of these funds from SDC/SDAs to the Government operated SSF. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President for the opportunity that you have given me. I would like to make a few comments on the motion that has been moved by Senator Khumalo. She has said she is talking about issues raised in the media which things are not substantiated by a circular. I will debate on that. Suppose we are saying something like that what measures should we take? She stated that SDC/SDA which are school associations which were moved after our independence after Government had realised that on her own she will not be able to shoulder the responsibilities in these schools and asked the parents to give a hand for the development of their schools. My opinion is that this motion, if it is possible, if at all this thing which is alleged and has already been said by Senator Khumalo, schools knew what they wanted and parents would sit and resolve on what to do with the resources that will have been pooled together and schools will develop.
Now, with this new development from the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to take SDC funds to put them into SSF, things will not move well because the funds will be controlled. Government should see which place needs a class very fast and therefore those funds will not be used as per what the school would want them to be used for, if at all this is going to be done. With those few words I will stop there.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2017
MOTION
ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS TO PROTECT DOMESTIC ANIMALS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to make my contribution. I would like to make my contribution on the motion which I raised. May I start by apologising for the delay in removing this motion on the Order Paper because we had lots of business and our motions were right at the bottom of the Oder Paper. May I also take this opportunity to thank all those Members who made contributions on my motion especially when we were talking about both domestic and wild animals which are left to run astray and in most instances, this leads to traffic accidents. Some of the traffic accidents were fatal and the person who would have passed on is somebody who will be fending for the family. When they die in such accidents, it means there is a fault somewhere.
We also looked at these animals and we noticed that these animals have rights and they have to be taken care of and be protected from accidents on the roads. We also realised that when some of these animals are run over on the road, nobody removes the carcasses and there is a lot of environment pollution due to some odours which emanate from there and also maggots. It was a pleasure listening to Members who made the contributions including the Hon. Chiefs who made the contributions...
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: When you make a
contribution, you do not talk of ladies and gentlemen but talk of Hon.
Members.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Please forgive me for using such a salutation. This motion which was on stray dogs and other domestic animals which are handled carelessly, we know that there used to be a law which had been put in place to the society for the prevention of cruelty to animals. I am therefore appealing to the Government to resuscitate these laws which are now redundant and the resuscitation should be put into practice because we have these animals which are suffering due to lack of care resulting into the accidents and also leading into fatal accidents.
I am appealing with the SPCA, National Parks, the Chiefs and the Veterinary Department that they should resuscitate these redundant laws to protect these animals. As I have said, these animals have a right and they are protected by the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I am therefore pleading with this august Senate to withdraw the motion that this
House:-
DISTURBED by the persistent problems posed by stray dogs and other domestic animals to their surrounding neighborhood and communities countrywide;
COGNISANT that all animals are protected under the laws of the country;
CONCERNED that owners of such stray animals denigrate on their responsibilities to look after them, thereby bestowing the onus to do so on other members of the community;
INCENSED by the fact that some people have suffered from bites inflicted on them by rabid dogs and have faced challenges in getting proper medication while others have been involved in fatal accidents caused by such animals;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon the Local Authorities and the
Society for Prevention of cruelty to Animals to:
- enforce laws that do not only protect the stray animals but also safeguard the lives of people;
- prosecute owners of stray animals and also ensure that proper facilities are constructed for the safe custody of such animals
Motion; With leave, withdrawn.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD
MARRIAGES
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on SADC Model law on eradicating Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. I move that
the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 18th May, 2017.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. BHEBHE: Thank you Madam President for this opportunity that I also make some comments on this motion moved by Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi and the seconder on the National Pledge. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for the motion and would like to say a few comments in support of the motion. This motion has been debated a lot in this House. When I look at the Constitution of the country, on the preamble, the National Pledge is there. This means it is not something new which we have seen in the motion by the Hon. Senator. It has always been there in our Constitution.
In short, the National Pledge is done in schools particularly for the young children especially those who are just entering school. It is of great help indeed. It instills in the child the importance of the country, nature, cooperation, respect and all things that are good about the country. I remember when we were growing up, one would qualify to go to school by touching your ear to start Grade 1. But now, children at four years can recite the National Pledge whereas an old person will not be able to understand. The child understands this better.
In Ndebele there is this saying which says “catch them young”. We support that. The Minister once said if you take your child to ECD, when that child starts Grade 1 with a child who did not go through ECD. The one who does not go through ECD will not compete with a child who came from ECD, it will be difficult. Madam President, as such, let us support this motion. The Minister had taken it and should give a report back so that it would be a strong Government policy.
I realise that it makes things easy, children can no longer cry.
When children are going to school, you find a child terrified of going to the class, but right now the child will tell you to go back home when they have arrived at school. It means our children are clever, they do not have a teacher who is different from a parent. I stood up to support, and I support this motion, which is good. Let us give it the importance that it deserves so that it becomes a policy that is working. It should not be something under trial, it should be done and implemented and we will see that it is important. It will make our children grow up clever.
The current generation is different from our generation. I said when we were going to school, we were first requested to touch our ears with our hand before being registered into school. These days if you ask our children to pray before eating our food, they pray. This is equivalent to the National Pledge, which means they have it in their minds. I would like to thank the mover of the motion and the seconder. Madam President, with those few words, this motion has been debated. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity of winding up the motion which I raised. I would like to thank the Senators who supported this motion. I am also grateful to the more than 20 Senators who made contributions on this motion on the National School Pledge. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education is very appreciative of all the contributions you made in this august House.
May I also state categorically that the schools around the country are well aware and have adopted this pledge. This is because it talks about the history of the country including the war of liberation and wealth of this country and is drawn from the Constitution. In the past, we were forced by the colonial regime to sing the British National
Anthem such as ‘God save our gracious Queen’ or ‘God save our gracious King,’ but we have nothing to do with the Queen. We are independent and we have our own pledge. We thank the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education for such a pledge. I am pleading with this House to allow me to withdraw from the Order Paper, the motion that this House;
APPLAUDING the noble initiatives by the Government to inculcate a culture of patriotism, unity of purpose and common desire for equality and justice as mandated by the Constitution;
DETERMINED to overcome any challenges that impede our resolve to cherish and uphold the fruits of our hard won independence;
COMMITTED to building a united and prosperous nation founded on core values of integrity and hard work anchored on the Constitution as the supreme law of the land;
DESIROUS to foster a strong sense of patriotism among school children as is the traditional practice in the global village;
NOW THEREFORE, strongly advocates for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
Motion; With leave, withdrawn.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY
POLITICAL PARTIES
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Madam President. I also wish to thank Hon. B. Sibanda and the seconder of this motion. Madam President, this is an important issue raised by Hon. Sibanda. Indeed, he is an honourable man to bring up this issue. Violence of whatever nature, whenever or however it occurs, is unacceptable. Anybody Hon. Madam President who seeks to access anything through violence, be it wealthy, sex or anything, it has repercations – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.] – bad consequences.
Hon. Sen. Sibanda, I think did not look at the bigger picture. Let us go a little bit into history with violence and conflict if you like. I will take it from the other angle. It is not just a question of violence between MDC and ZANU-PF during elections. Let us look at a bigger picture. If you really want to solve the problem of violence as a nation to say, this should never happen again. Ever since this country was established, you can go back to the Monomotapa era, it has always been the issue that invasions occurred. Once they occurred, that is violence, to access what? Wealthy from a particular region, from a particular tribe and it had bad consequences.
I wish to remind this House that in history, human beings are unique, they do not forget. Stories are always told, zvaiita vana nhingi, zvavakatiita vananhingi, they do not forget – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – that thing will come back to haunt you. So, it is true, let us learn never to make violence a way of life. I really wish to thank, I repeat again, Hon. Sibanda for bringing this motion.
I move on again, the same thing, colonialism came, it did not come in peace, they came with violence, looting, doing all sorts of things. Again look at the backlash when actually there are generations following who want to take up and revenge. See then what happens, do not blame anybody. If you start it you really have a problem, even in our politics everything else that we do, let us remember never to start anything that will have such serious repercations.
Madam President, I will just conclude my debate by thanking Hon.
Sen. Sibanda again. Such statements as, listen to this; ‘President Robert Mugabe must go, if he does not go peacefully, we will actually force him to go.’ That kind of statement does not really auger very well. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to make my contribution on the motion on violence. I am grateful to Hon. Sen. Sibanda who said something which is very true when he said violence is a socio-political way amongst the people of Zimbabwe and this is an undeniable fact. We have seen that violence has been with us in Zimbabwe since the Gukurahundi period. We are told there were people in Matabeleland who numbered 20 000, who were massacred in the Gukurahundi era.
This culture of violence is engrained in us and as such, if there is to be somebody who visits those areas and start talking about violence, the people of Matabeleland shiver in fear. We now have children who were between 35 and 40 years, who have never been in a learning institution because of what was laid down in those areas. Violence reared its ugly head in Matabeleland and I say that because in the past, I was an office bearer in the MDC and I know there are some learners in those areas who cannot indulge in any mathematical calculations or English because they were disturbed during the Gukurahundi.
We also saw the ugly head of violence during the period of murambatsvina, keep the country clean. When we are talking of violence it is an all inclusive term, not only beating but it also includes some policies which are hurtful to the people’s lives. So a clean-up campaign is also one of those areas which talk about the violence. When we talk again about the 2008, we had people who had to be affected in those areas. In the 2008 elections, there was such violence that we are told a lot of people died during the June 27 elections.
This past week I was in Chireya and I was shown 12 graves. From there I went to Nembudziya where I was shown 12 graves. These were graves of people who were massacred during the 2008 elections and the residents and citizens of those areas are now staying in fear. When you talk about political campaigns or elections, there is fear in them because they associate it with violence. We also know that there are some people who are denied food handouts which come from the State because they are labeled as people who belong to a wrong party. This is structural violence because it is engrained in the procedures and administration. This can be removed from our society if we all agree that we are denouncing violence.
We noticed that violence is being used as a tool to access power to intimidate the opponents. Why should you be elected into power through violence? Getting into power through such a means is very bad and has no respect. Our country has no trading partners because it is known as a violent country and hence everybody shun it.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: On a point of order! I think what this
Hon. Senator is saying is out of order because he is talking about people who are elected into power through violence. So, I think he is blaming the freedom fighters because they had to fight for the country for it to be liberated.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. I am going
to get to that point, give me a chance. We should not be elected into power through violence and I am talking of violence of a black against a black. It was a different way whereby the black people were fighting the colonialists who were white regime. In the 1970’s, we were also part of that war of liberation; I was a collaborator and we fully support the war of liberation. However, what is hurting us is that we are fighting amongst ourselves, the liberated blacks.
Right now, we are going to a stage where the people of Zimbabwe are now aware that violence is bad and I am pleading with our chiefs and some of them are in this august House. Some of them have remained in their rural areas; I believe that our chiefs have great power to create peace in the country. If the chiefs talk against violence in the country and say they do not want any spilling of blood, nobody will fight because our chiefs are well respected. This is regardless of the age of the chief, just like we have Hon. Sen. Musarurwa; he is a young chief.
As young as he is, if he declares that he does not want any violence in his area, nobody will go against it.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF. MUSARURWA: On a point of order! I
have just heard my name being mentioned as I was entering this august House. So, I want to know if there is anything wrong that I have done.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. TAWENGWA): Hon. Sen. Komichi is saying Chief Musarurwa may look just like an ordinary young man but because of the throne which he holds, he is a well respected chief. If he says no to violence in his jurisdiction, people will listen and that when these politicians come to their jurisdiction, they should ask for our permission.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. Yes, if a
chief says there should be no violence in my area, they are listened to because they are people of honour and dignity. We also have war veterans who fought for the liberation of this country. The colonial regime was defeated and Zimbabwe is now a free country. It is a land of milk and honey. When these fighters came into the country they were well respected and they were the envy of many but then as time went on, we had some of these liberators who were being used by political parties to torture and torment people in the rural areas.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: On point of order! I am pleading
with the Hon. Senator who is contributing to stick to the facts and support the liberation fighters because they are again protected by the
Constitution of Zimbabwe. Let us respect our freedom fighters – [AN
HON. SENATOR: Wakadirwa mvura inopisa.] –
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon.
Senators, I beg you to be tolerant and let us not create a mockery because as Hon. Members of this august Senate, we should not mock each other. What may have happened has happened. Let it be water under the bridge.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Hon. Sen. Mavhunga, you are not
aware of where I am going with my debate. I am saying the legacy bestowed on us by the freedom fighters should be restored and upheld. The dignity which they had and the liberation which they brought into the country should really be respected. They should not be used as puppets on a string but in order for us to restore that legacy, I am calling upon all the freedom fighters to preach the gospel of non-violence. Let us preach the gospel of peace.
If we talk to our children who would have noticed some violence being perpetrated by the freedom fighters, the children will equate freedom fighters with violence. We are saying, if we were being violent during the campaign and election periods, please let us carry out that in peace. Therefore, we do not have to hear freedom fighters like Hon. Sen. Mawire being blamed for thrashing and torturing the elderly in the villages.
When we are talking about non-violence, let us go through the eight points of attention which was applied by the freedom fighters during the war. Why is it that the eight points which were being used are now being opposed at this time? We were told: protect the mass, do not violently take things from the public, let us be peaceful, let us not be cruel to captives and prisoners of war but we need to be peaceful.
We are saying, if the freedom fighters are talking of peace, this will be a blessing. It will be a blessing to Zimbabwe to hear a freedom fighter saying during campaigns we want peace and tolerance. We believe if we combine that effort we are going to succeed in our programmes. Through that action and adoption of peace, Zimbabwe is going to develop. We will all be one family and there will not be any divisions. When we go to elections and whosoever wins because there has been peace, there will not be any fights because the campaigns and elections will be done peacefully.
I will now turn to the other group which should be helping in keeping peace in the country. The police, through the Commissioner General, should enforce the adoption of peace in the country. In their operations, they should listen to the voice from the churches, the voice from their leaders and the freedom fighters that there should be peace. As Morgan, if I hit Peter because of politics or if Peter fights Morgan because of politics, he has to be arrested. There should be no sacred cows in maintaining peace in the country. We know our country is a peaceful country and by arresting the perpetrators of violence, we will be creating peace in the country.
I am pleading with the chiefs, the freedom fighters and the people of Zimbabwe; let us spread love, peace and happiness in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. Let me take this opportunity to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon. Sen. Sibanda. Thank you Hon. Sen. Sibanda for bringing such a motion in the august Senate which is aimed at bringing peace in the country. As members of this august Senate, what should we do? This is because we are saying, we encounter violence during the period of campaigns and elections. However, we have some biblical quotations that say Samson killed a lion and ate honey out of the carcass. As Hon. Senators, what should we do in our constituencies?
In our constituencies, when we are moving out from here to areas like Gokwe and Chireya, you do not give notice to Hon. Members in that area. That shows that there is violence. When getting to somebody’s constituency, please you should give notice to the person whose area you are visiting.
When we look at our history, in 1890 the colonialists came with violence because they were impounding Africans’ properties and land.
They even established Parliament, which was an all-white Parliament. There was not even a single black despite their numbers. Members were not even allowed to know that there is going to be an election. We only learnt about these positions in history when we talked of General Peter Walls, the Governor Humphrey Gibbs, Sir Garfield Todd and the Smiths. This was violence because we were being taught English which was not our language when we were leaving in a violent atmosphere.
Hon. Sen. Sibanda, thank you for bringing up this motion. We are all educated and we need to look at the source of violence. When we have seen the source, we can uproot that violence because we know the causes. When we look at the war of liberation in the areas such as
Muzarabani, we have more people who died during the war of liberation, especially Chibondo whereby the graves were exhumed from mines.
There was violence. That is where violence started.
The biblical Samson had to get honey from the carcass of a lion.
Daniel also survived in the lion’s den and this was again violence. When we look at Cain and Abel, brother killing brother, we see violence started from the heavens because God fought a war with Lucifer. When Lucifer was defeated, he was dropped down to earth. When you look at the distance travelled by Lucifer when he was chased from heavens, we can see that is where violence started. I think as Zimbabweans we need to sit down together and hold talks on peace so that we stop violence and ask from the Lord above because he is the only one who can stop violence. This is because we believe that the war started from the heavens. If we look at the wars which were fought during the Israelites war, when they got to the land of milk and honey, it was all violence. As I am talking, some people are mumbling and that is violence, which shows that we are indulging in violence because when we talk about profiteering and feeding, it means we are talking of violence. However,
I believe that as Zimbabweans, we should talk about peace, because we will be talking about what is good for us. Nevertheless, we have a situation where in our negotiations we do not have a win-win situation- then there will be a problem. I thank you Hon Sen. Sibanda for raising this motion on violence.
In our circles, we do not have violence but when we watched the news on television, there was violence which was happening at Mabvudzi School where the teachers and other staff members were attacked by robbers. Violence is an invisible enemy because sin is also similar to violence. So I am saying violence is violence and we need to stand and put our heads together to fight this violence. There should be no provocation because if you take your finger and put it into somebody’s mouth, definitely that will be provocation that you will have started. What I am saying is that if you live in a glass house, do not throw stones, because if you throw stones, people will also throw stones at your house and the glasses will be broken. Hon. President, the people are making noise and I am begging you to protect me because I am still making my contributions. Can the violence start in this House? Hon Sibanda brought a very good motion.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Members, we need to be very peaceful. Hon. Chimanikire, listen to me, we are not in a public brawl where anybody can say whatever they want.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Let me conclude my motion. You
do not have to tell me what to say because you will be violating my rights. All I am saying is for us to say the truth. We know that violence started from the heavens. All the religious bodies, the Seventh Day, the Pentecostals and all the established bodies, we need to put our heads together and fight violence. I believe that in the 1890s, we were under the colonial regime, then we started the war of liberation against the colonialists led by our leaders Cde Nkomo and Cde Mugabe.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: On a point of order Mr. President. We are in the Senate, we are Senators, leaders, Hon. Members and we also have women. She is a lady and I am a lady. We are coming from a women’s caucus just now and I am not meant to make a point of order but as women, if we say violence started from the heavens yet we are leaders who are supposed to be advocating against violence what are we saying? I stand to be guided on the motion under debate.
* THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: The
motion which is being debated is saying we all need to be saying we do not want violence but we want to live in peace. We need to denounce all forms of violence, regardless of who it is being perpetrated upon or who the perpetrators are.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. I do
not see where I erred. All I said was I am pleading with the churches or religious bodies to pray for peace so that Zimbabwe can be in peace. So where did I make a mistake? What I am saying is; the person with the pain is the one who feels it because pain cannot be transferred to somebody else. We need to pray to the Lord above to bring peace and order upon Zimbabwe. This is the truth and I will repeat that violence started from the heavens and only the Lord above can stop this violence.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We
need to work very hard to stop violence as long as we are alive.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, I had promised to move
the adoption of this motion but I have had further requests for debate by certain Hon. Senators. I therefore move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low
population growth.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the Electoral Act to the Constitution
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on this motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos. The motion is talking about working in peace together with the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC). We are also being told that it is one of the three pillars of democracy. The Constitution of the country talks about the four pillars of democracy which are ZEC,
Human Rights Commission, Anti-Corruption Commission and the
Media Commission. When these bodies were included in the Constitution, it was emphasised that they should work as independent bodies with no interference. In other words, the Chairperson and the Commission should work freely so that the people of Zimbabwe get the required services. ZEC operates together with various political parties - both the ruling and the opposition. The people of Zimbabwe would like to have a situation whereby the Electoral Act is aligned in such a way that the Chairperson and the Commission are empowered. If the
Electoral Act is not aligned, it means the powers of the Electoral Commission Chairperson are weak and therefore she cannot make decisions. If that Act is not amended or aligned whatever it is they are doing would be against the law. ZEC at the moment is running under a law which violates the Constitution because the laws which govern them have not been aligned to the Constitution.
Again if the law is hazy, there is bound to be some interference in the operation of ZEC. For example, there is no clear policy on how ZEC and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs should operate. There is interference which is happening. As a result, we are calling for the alignment of the Electoral Act so that the Commission may work efficiently. The Electoral Commission is faced with a mammoth task of compiling a new voter’s roll. How can we have a good BVR when the law that is supposed to operationalise that BVR has not been aligned to the Constitution? We have no faith in that process because Commissioners are operating on a law which is ultra vires the Constitution.
Mr. President, I have some facts which I want to present to this august House. The voters roll which we are fighting and say has to be removed and be replaced by the BVR has a lot of anomalies. Let me talk about what happened in 2013 when people were registered for elections. The result which I have came from eight provinces, shows how people were registered between 2000 to 2013 and their numbers were increasing. There were two provinces which had numbers of voters dwindling. I am not going to talk about all the provinces but I am randomly going to pick a few.
In 2000 Bulawayo had 350 000 voters and yet in 2013 there were
310 000 voters. So, from 350 000 to 310 000, it means the voters in that area had reduced from 2000 to 2013. In the year 2000 Harare had 800 000 voters and in 2013, it had 790 000 voters. It shows that the voters were decreasing and they reduced by 83 000 and Bulawayo reduced by 53 000. Let us go to the rural areas – in Manicaland had 575 000 in 2000 and in 2013 it had 798 000. Mashonaland West had 500 000 in the year
2000 and in 2013 had 656 000. Masvingo had 593 000 in 2000 and in 2013 had 669 000. That is why we have had squabbles with ZEC because it is empowered and responsible for registering the voters. The people of Zimbabwe are saying ZEC should be independent so that the political parties should have clean voters roll.
According to the population census of 2012, Harare had more people than every other province in the country. There were about 2 million people in Harare. There is no province which has people who are as many as that. All of them are below that and you find that the voting patterns are decreasing and you start wondering why. This creates mistrust in the registration process which is undertaken by ZEC, hence the call for ZEC to be independent.
Let me now talk about BVR. We know that there are provinces which are being given 700 points of registration in the country. How will 2 million people in the City of Harare register? Bulawayo has 392 points of registration and yet it has 1.2 million people. How are these people going to register? Mashonaland Central has 1.1 million people yet it has 1200 points of registration. These are some of the things which cause disagreements in the country. We all know that each political party has its stronghold in this country, the opposition has more voters in the cities while the ruling party has more voters in the rural areas.
Therefore, we are saying ZEC should put equal voter registration points in all provinces. I know people may talk of geographical setup in those areas and they may say in the urban areas the geographical set up may be small. I would want to argue and say that while geographical setup in urban centres is small but their population is big. There is also a huge activity in the towns as people spend most of their time fending for themselves, seeking employment or any other ways of living, hence the density of the population is very high.
We are saying if Manicaland has 1300 registration points, Harare should have the same figure because they have the same population density. When we see registration points of Harare being reduced to 700, we say it is rigging of elections. We are saying why should there be that change. According to our view, ZEC is rigging elections before we start this voting process. If ZEC purports to be independent they should be talking to political parties and agree on the number of registration points. If they hold such meetings there is going to be an agreement among these people. I am pleading with this august House that this information should be passed on to the powers that be. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Timveos who brought this motion to this august House. I am really grateful because even as we are debating, we are just adding on to what she has already said. I think she put it plainly and all those who have debated before me, have also put it plainly. When I look at this issue, it is really painful especially to the opposition political parties in this country. When we talk about this and looking at the fact that we will be having elections very soon, and that people should register to vote, as I was listening to the last speaker, the speaker was quoting figures.
ZEC has a very big job and people can say all this is because of voter apathy. The truth is that there are many people in the cities. Who is ZEC and who are the people in ZEC who are responsible for the registration and the voting? If you look at the composition of the staff at ZEC, these people are not independent. They are not free people. It is just the same as if I am standing here. I am Senator Spiwe Ncube and I represent my party. I am here because of a party that brought me here.
This is what we are talking about. Who is ZEC, who are the people in ZEC, what are their positions and who are they representing?
One speaker said that if the Constitution were to be followed to the core, these people should work independently. If you are working under someone’s instruction, you will be afraid to lose your job because if you do something opposing what your employer is saying, things will not go well for you. Here we are talking about biometric voting. We have not seen it but we have heard that it is now available. Now we are in the middle of the year and we are talking about elections that we will be facing next year. Registration has not started and we do not know exactly what is happening. Where are we going?
I want to talk mostly about elections. This motion that was brought here stated a lot of things. There is a point where she says, now therefore. It means that this person is looking at ZEC and what is going to happen and what the Constitution says. People said what they wanted in the new Constitution but up to now, it is silent. So, that means maybe these things should not have happened. Maybe we wasted State funds and people’s time because it appears as if nothing is happening since 2010 up to now. It is being said we will align the laws but nothing is being done. It looks like there are some things that are not regarded as important.
Mr. President, this is really painful.
An Hon. Senator having passed between the Chair and the Hon.
Member speaking.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order
Hon. Senator, you may not cross between the speaker and the Chair. +HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. We got independence and we were saying we are now in Zimbabwe but we are not free. If we cannot correct things that pertain to us as human beings, it means that our being here is pointless. We are here as mouthpieces for those people who cannot be here because all of us cannot be here. If people have chosen you to represent them, leadership does not start from here, it starts from the grassroots. There are constitutions from burial societies, clubs and other several constitutions up to the Constitution of the nation, but people do understand that what they write in the Constitution is what should be followed.
Why is it that this country does not follow that? People have been talking and saying that for things to be in order, we have to do this and that. We can say a lot of things. We have been patient as people of this country that things should be rectified so things should be aligned to the Constitution and that ZEC should also follow what is said. That way, people can have a free and fair election. There is not much that we are talking about but all what we are saying is that ZEC should be independent so that they can have powers to rectify things.
We do not think that this machine that they are talking about will enable everyone to register. If we do not succeed to do that, it means we are going back to the old voters roll that we have been complaining about. So, what is going to happen now? Our plea or our request is that people are still waiting out there because it is painful to rule people in a bad way. People are patient and they are waiting. Why is it that some things are being rectified but this has not been rectified?
Mr. President, I thought the Constitution was very important. This is what should have been rectified considering what the people said now that we are looking at elections. Even if we go for elections, people are going to say that we already saw that this was coming because things were not rectified in the first place. I would like to thank Senator Timveos and all the other speakers that this issue that we are talking about should be listened to and that the Constitution should be aligned to what the people said and what the political parties especially the opposition parties said, so that when we go for elections, we should be satisfied that we have been beaten or we have won.
If there is nothing to hide, why is it that this thing is not coming to an end and why is it that we say there is no money and yet there is money to do other things. This is suspicious. If we were not hiding anything, then things should be put out in the open. At times when you say things and not write them down, you tend to forget. However, those things that are written, you cannot forget. People said what they said and what they wanted, it is known. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. I just want to add a few words on this motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos on electoral laws. Firstly I would like to say, yes, realignment is not progressing in the way that we were expecting. However, as Hon. Members, I think we should speak the truth and it will help us to move together. I have heard people saying that ZEC is just trudging on without powers. Mr. President, all Hon. Members here present know that there is a document called the Electoral Law, which gives ZEC powers and defines its jurisdiction on how to handle elections and registration of voters. For us to say that today there is no legislation, I think we are not being truthful.
Mr. President, it is true that there is slowing down when it comes to legislation. I want to touch on the BVR which I am sure that most of us are not well versed with. I am saying this because we heard some people saying that they do not want it but some people later on said it is just registration, next year we will vote. We then hear the same people coming back and saying that the voters’ roll that we were using in the past was not up to date because dead people were included. What I know is that dead people do not vote and they are not counted.
Mr. President, we have heard about the statistics which Hon. Sen. Komichi has tabled. I did not see them but I know that if I research, I will find them easily. However, all the people who are well versed in politics know that when independence is coming, there is what we call euphoria for voting. For example, in 1980, many people came out in their numbers to vote. Everyone wanted to vote, but as time progressed, people were now developing cold feet. They were saying that ‘we voted and some were saying that ‘we have already won,’ whilst some would be saying ‘even if we vote, nothing will change.’ That is what Hon. Members should be aware of. I know that these days you just find yourself there but those who were Members of Parliament before know that voters decrease with time. It is a phenomenon which is well known worldwide.
Let me come back to Harare and Bulawayo. In towns and cities there is one challenge, someone has alluded to it. All the people in towns want to make money. They are looking for food and with unemployment; they are worried about what to serve on the table. For them to spend time in the queue voting for people who will get their money and cars, a lot of them are not concerned about it. Secondly, in towns, even with 2 million people, it is very true. However, if you look at the registered voters, you find out that those people do not reach even up to 1.5 million. It is because there is voter apathy.
However, if you look at the rural areas…
HON. SEN. MARAVA: On a point of order Mr. President. While we are following the debate very closely, I would like to point out to one fact that; urban residents know their priorities and they cannot fail to differentiate between a need and a want. In this case Mr. President, urban residents have their priorities well in that they respect the importance of voting.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: What is
your point of order?
HON. SEN. MARAVA: My point of order is that I would like to draw the attention of the Hon. Senator that the people of Harare and Bulawayo and all the towns of Zimbabwe know their priorities. Like he is saying they are worried about getting food, they are not worried about the vote, they do not worry about staying in a queue until they vote, I say no to that.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: That is
your view, let him express his view.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. I just want to remind Hon. Senators that I did not grow up in the rural areas. I went to the rural areas recently. Before it was called Harare, I was here when all these others suburbs like Glen Norah were not yet established. This is not new; I am talking about something that I know. I know that in the rural areas, it is different from the towns because now I am in the rural areas. I have realised that in the rural areas, when it is election time, they spend the whole day at the polling station to vote, they can carry their lunch boxes there to eat. I was once a Member of Parliament and we should not put our emphasis on the voting patterns. If you look closely, you will realise that when a new Member of Parliament is being voted for in a by-election, there are differences.
So, I am saying the statistics brought in by Hon. Komichi are not something that we should dwell on and spend time debating on because they are not the ones which will make us win or lose. This is because if figures have dropped in Harare from 800 000, it does not mean that the voters, because of voter apathy, the people are now losing, but if we had a Proportional Representation system that if the whole country is seen as one constituency, that is when you can cry foul because there are a few people and that the figure would be affected. However, if you are using the First Pass the Post, you will win. Even if you register 500 people, they will still vote for you and where there are 2000 people, you will win in your constituency. We have seen it; probably some of you were not yet interested in politics in 2000. We witnessed it; all the Harare seats were taken by MDC. The gap between ZANU PF and MDC in the
National Assembly was so close. At that time it was 63 seats against 57 but as time went on tables turned.
In 2008, despite the fact that there was violence, do you know how many votes the MDC had in the National Assembly and how many ZANU PF had? So, Mr. President, I am saying that is not the issue. We should encourage people to go and register. Now, that there is a new system, the BVR which will deter people from voting twice, if we could applaud that system. Even if a few people register we will be certain that there will be no rigging. As Members of the Senate, that is what we should be discussing about instead of going around showing people statistics of how many people have registered in Masvingo. Yes, they can win in Masvingo only and lose in other constituencies where more people have been registered. This issue of how many people have registered against the population is not an issue.
I also want to raise an issue on the independence of ZEC. It is comprised of judges who would have been appointed by the President but what cushions them and protects them is that they do not lose their jobs and their money does not come from Treasury but it comes from the same bag as the Judges, hence they are not afraid of anybody.
It is now in our people’s minds that even if ZEC is good at anything, if I did not win, it means they do not know what they are doing. I think it is also affecting the operations of ZEC. If they do well, they will be condemned and if they do not do well they will still be condemned. So, why not bring in ideas pointing out where ZEC is going wrong? At one time Registrar Mudede was pointed out and his entire office that the registration work was given to ZEC. Before they had
even finished voter registration, people were already crying foul that they are not independent. So, where are we going? Can a country be governable that if you do not win then there is no fairness? We are already complaining that we are losing before we have even voted. I have heard someone saying that if we go to elections in 2018, I am not going to concede to the results before we have even started the registration process. What if we start voter registration and vote, what are we going to say then? People only want to win and then they will say the elections were fair. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 6th June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUSAKA seconded by HON. SEN. MUMVURI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Four minutes to
Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 6th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 11th May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
LAUNCH OF THE WASTE MANAGEMENT AND BIN ROLLOUT
PROGRAMME
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House
that the Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate will hold a Waste
Management Launch and Bin Rollout to Parliamentarians on Thursday,
18th May, 2017 from 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. at the Africa Unity Square. All Hon. Members are invited to this event. The launch is aimed to creating awareness in proper waste management and practices in all constituencies for a clean, safe and healthy environment.
FIRST READING
MINES AND MINERALS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 19, 2015]
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA) presented the Mines
and Minerals Amendment Bill [H.B. 19, 2015].
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): May I request that
Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 3 has been disposed of.
HON. GONESE: Just a matter of clarification Madam Speaker. I have no objection but I think that the Hon. Minister owes it to this august House to indicate to us as to whether the relevant Ministers are going to turn up at a later stage because often times, we have had this situation where on a Tuesday or Thursday, which are days where Government business is supposed to take precedence, we have a situation where the relevant Ministers do not turn up and we end up not debating those Bills. In particular Madam Speaker, in respect of Order Number 2, you will recall that on Tuesday the debate was prematurely adjourned because the Hon. Vice President who is in charge of that particular Bill was not in attendance; neither was the Minister of State in his office or even the officials from the relevant organ on National Healing were not in attendance. At this point in time, I think it is important for us as the representatives of the people of Zimbabwe to be appraised as to whether the Hon. Vice President is going to turn up or whether he has again thumped his nose at us showing the total disdain that he shows for this august institution. In moving his motion for the Orders to be stood over, it is important for us to know where we stand in that regard.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Administration of
Parliament, with the help of the Chief Whips will have to write to the responsible Ministers to be present in time for their Bills to be debated.
Motion put and agreed to.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL (H. B. 7A,
2016)
Third Order read: Consideration: Moveable Property Security Interests Bill [H.B. 7A, 2016].
Amendments to Clauses 2 to 7, 9, 11, 13, First and Second Schedules put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL, (H. B. 7A,
2016)
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I move that the Bill be read
the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential speech.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): I move that the debate
do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2017
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA), the House adjourned
at Twenty-Seven Minutes past Two o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 16th May, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 10th May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A BRIEFING BY ZIPAH
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the Zimbabwe Parliamentarians on HIV/AIDS Executive (ZIPAH) is inviting all Hon. Members to a brief meeting tomorrow, 11th May, 2017 at 1200 hours in the Government Caucus.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order. I have on your Order Paper, Order of the Day Number 10 and I seek your indulgence seeing that today is private members day that after Question Time, you Madam Speaker, make a ruling that we debate this motion today seeing that some of the issues that are embedded there – today is the 10th May, 2017 and we are nearly half way through the year and they were supposed to be included in the National Budget. There are issues to do with people with disability to which the convention we ratified in 2013 which we still have to domesticate. So, aware of all that Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence and for you to make a ruling that we debate that motion today so that we can make sure that the lives of the people with disability are mainstreamed in the same way that the differently abled are living. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thought by now the Hon.
Member should know how the procedures are done. Anyway the Hon. Member should liaise with the Chief Whips on those issues. That is not the duty of the Chair.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order. My point of order is with regard to Standing Order No. 69 (d) whereby today we have
Question Time and we are supposed to get answers from Ministers.
Unfortunately, as I speak now, there are no Ministers, we hardly have Ministers here. I understand His Excellency, the President is not around hence issues of Politburo or Cabinet meetings cannot be an excuse, so that one is out of question. My question to you Madam Speaker is that if you can advise the House as to who will be the Leader of the House since we do not have the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa neither do we have the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon.
Chinamasa in order to move our business.
Madam Speaker, just to complement my order, we have a challenge in this country as we speak today whereby we have a road which links Birchenough-Tanganda-Checheche which has become so bad and we hardly have a Minister so that he can speak on how we can move forward with regard to that road.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think you have got to follow
the procedures of the House. You were complaining about the Ministers, can we deal with that one first and not the issue of roads at home. Referring to your point of order, at the moment I do not have a list of Ministers who gave their apologies. I have talked to our Clerk and she is liaising with her office that maybe we have a list of those who gave their apologies.
On the issue concerning the Leader of the House, I think not so long ago I gave you the answer that it is the duty of the Chair to appoint a Leader of the House. Up to now you have never heard of anyone who will take the place of the Vice President when he is not here. I cannot go and push the appointing authority to appoint someone.
HON. MUNENGAMI: As Parliament we have got that power.
Honestly, for you to say you cannot go and push the Executive – we have the power as Parliament to make sure that they appoint the Acting Leader of the House at any given time. It is the duty of Parliament through you as our Chair to make sure that we have an Acting Leader of the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Hon. Speaker did that and
we are still waiting for the answer. Concerning the Hon. Ministers who gave their apologies. On the list we have, Hon. Mandiwanzira, Hon.
Mabuwa, Hon. Sen. Muzenda and Hon. Prof. J. Moyo.
HON. MLILO: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege that
I have actually earlier raised, I am sure it is a couple of months ago, particularly with regards to the pedestrian crossing that we have along Nelson Mandela that I and other Members of Parliament almost got struck down by errant drivers. I had to lobby it through the Speaker to have the administration, at least to get Harare City Council to erect a pedestrian robot so that we do not lose this gift of life. This gift of life comes from the Almighty God and these are National Assembly Members who represent so many people. In these days of economic hardships, it is difficult to run by-elections, so let us protect these lives for they are worth a lot. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thought since today is a
Wednesday where we have our question time session, you can give your question to the Minister. Yes, you can bring it to the Chair and I will as well take it to the responsible Minister. However, I will recognise you so that you bring up that question straight to the Minister.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I totally concur with you in terms of those Ministers who have given leave. However, if you go to
63 (2) of the Standing Rules and Orders, it says “A Minister who fails to attend Parliament without leave having been granted in terms of the suborder 1, shall be in contempt of Parliament. So, are these Ministers going to be in contempt of Parliament? We have come here before, the
Speaker has said he has written to His Excellency about the performance of the Ministers and surely the President cannot be here hence delegates his Ministers to be here to attend to some pertinent issues which are in the country right now.
Rightfully so, the President is not in the country right now, there is no Cabinet and we equally are Members of Parliament who want to go our constituencies and they are equally Members of Parliament who probably have gone to their constituencies too. They are not sticking to their mandate which the President has given them. For how long can we go on like this, being told every time that we have written to the
President? The failure by the President to respond to the Speaker’s letter also reflects to his attitude pertaining to the Ministers. As the Head of
State, once he receives a letter like that, he must be able to zero in on his Ministers and as such there are so many capable ZANU PF Members who can be Ministers anytime, in both sides whether you call them Lacoste or G40 can be appointed to be Ministers by the President. Why has the President not responded to this House which is very important in terms of the functions of Government at the end of the day? Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa,
while I do agree with what you are saying, I think the Chair is also going to follow up on what you have said.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I am
raising a matter of privilege on behalf of myself, other Members of Parliament and the entire population of Zimbabwe who have been short changed or who are being short changed by the public broadcaster.
Last week, on Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017, the leader of the Opposition, Hon. Khupe raised a question relating to Gukurahundi on the difficulties people are having in obtaining identity documents because of people who were killed during the Gukurahundi era. The Hon. Minister of Home Affairs responded that it was a non-issue and then there were follow up questions. It has now come to our attention that the public broadcaster, the Zimbabwe Television Company, through its wisdom or lack of it decided to switch off the live coverage at that particular point in time.
In terms of Section 141 of our Constitution, Parliament must be accessible to the Public and it is for this reason that Hon. Chamisa raised that point in this very august House as a result of which we started having live coverage. It is my respectful submission Madam Speaker that it defeats the whole purpose if somebody at Pockets Hill decides at any particular point, that they are going to switch off that live coverage. The whole idea is to have all the proceedings, particularly during question time to be aired live on television.
Madam Speaker, for that reason, I am raising a complaint because someone from ZTV had a merit to say that, it is up to their discretion to decide to switch as and when they deem it expedient. I submit, Madam Speaker that this is a disservice, not just to the Members of this august
House but to the entire country. I want as a matter of procedure that the Chair makes a pronouncement that that behaviour is not acceptable. If the ZTV has accepted that they are going to broadcast our proceedings live, then they must do so.
Other countries have got their own television stations which are run by their Parliaments. Unfortunately, we do not have that but it is an obligation which the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation must take seriously. When they have come, they must, with due diligence, carry it out to its logical conclusion and not to switch it off as they did last week.
I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think we will have to use our administration so that we check on what happened on that day then we give a ruling.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. MALACH NKOMO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to Minister Ncube who is in charge of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage. Minister, if we look in the rural areas, they have areas where there are velds – what does the law say on the use of such places? Maybe people pass on, how can people use such velds?
THE MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND
PRESERVATION OF CULTURE AND HERITAGE (HON. A.
NCUBE):Thank you Hon. Chair, may I ask the Hon. Member to repeat his question.
+HON. MALACHI NKOMO: Thank you Hon. Minister. My
question is about…
HON. ZWIZWAI: Madam Speaker, the Hon. Minister was
sleeping and I was only saying he does not have the right to sleep in this
House but since you said I should withdraw, I withdraw. – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member,
you are out of order because the Hon. Minister was not sleeping. So you have to withdraw without making statements. Please, go and withdraw.
HON. ZWIZWAI: I withdraw Madam Speaker.
+HON. MALACHI NKOMO: Hon. Minister, I was saying if
you look at the rural areas, we have areas that are lying idle as people are no longer ploughing in those areas. What is the jurisdiction of chiefs so that people can use those areas? What is the Government policy on those areas that are no longer being used?
+THE MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND PRESEVATION OF CULTURE AND HERITAGE (HON.
NCUBE): Thank you Madam Speaker, I will respond in SiNdebele. Yes, these places that you are referring to are under the jurisdiction of rural authorities. If you have a problem or have some developmental project …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Minister,
I urge you to please raise your voice so that those Hon. Members who are sitting at the back can also hear you.
+HON. NCUBE: The areas that you make reference to, you should approach your rural local authorities and apply to use them. They will tell you what to do - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order may we have
order in the House so that we hear the response.
+HON. NCUBE: The chiefs have no jurisdiction over that land.
+HON. MALACHI NKOMO: Madam Speaker, I did not hear
the Hon. Minister’s response. May he kindly repeat his answer as there was too much noise in the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members
you have laughed enough. May we please give the Hon. Minister a chance to response to the question?
+HON. NCUBE: I said that the places that the Hon. Member is making reference to are not under the jurisdiction of chiefs. The people who are in charge of such land are the local rural authorities. He should approach the local authority and if they are sacred places, the elderly will be duly consulted on that. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Madam Speaker, I have a question to the same Minister of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and
Heritage. What is the Government’s policy regarding the payment of allowances to village and kraal heads? Are they all entitled or there are some special selected few?
HON. NCUBE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker for the question raised by the Hon. Member. As far as the Ministry is concerned, each and every village head is entitled to an allowance except in situations whereby some village heads may not be registered but as long as the village head is registered, he is entitled to an allowance.
HON. GABBUZA: My supplementary question is, in the event
that the village is not registered but continues to perform the duties of village head, does the Hon. Minister have a programme to ensure that they register and are they going to be back paid for the period that they have been working without receiving allowances?
HON. NCUBE: That is very clear. In the first place and as I have already said that the village head must be registered, in cases where they are not registered, the village head is supposed to approach the office of the local district administrator for registration. After that, the village will be paid his/her allowance. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The last part of the question was whether they are going to be paid for the months that they worked without payment?
HON. NCUBE: Yes, they will be paid.
HON. MAKUNDE: My supplementary question to the Hon.
Minister is that registered village heads have gone for eight months without receiving that allowance. When are they going to be paid the allowances?
HON. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. There could be some communication breakdown in cases whereby … - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, I think village
heads are everywhere. You need to listen and understand the Hon.
Minister’s response but some people are busy talking and having meetings in the House.
I was advising the Hon. Member that maybe in
his constituency or district or anywhere there are some village heads who have not received their allowances. Please, go to the District
Administrator’s office with some written documents to explain exactly how much the arrears are so that the district office will communicate with the provincial and head offices respectively. In turn, we are going to send those to the relevant ministries.
HON. MAKUNDE: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker,
maybe I need to clarify to the Hon. Minister that all the requisite information has been submitted to the DA’s office for the eight months that I am talking about but nothing has happened.
HON. NCUBE: May I ask the Hon. Member to bring the details to my office next week.
+HON. ZWIZWAI: Thank you Madam Speaker but before I ask my question, I want to congratulate myself because today is my birthday and I would also want to congratulate all the mothers in this country.
My supplementary question is looking at the remuneration of village heads and chiefs. Hon. Ministers have three cars and all the Hon. Members of Parliament except for those who came through by-elections do not have cars. The Government is supposed to buy cars for chiefs and headmen and now we are heading towards the end of our term. I would like to ask the Hon. Minister when …
Hon. A. Ncube having stood up to respond to the question. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ZWIZWAI: Hon. Minister, if you stand up again I will raise my voice. So we want to know what Government plans are for our headmen and chiefs to have their cars before this term of Parliament is over. What is the budget required for them to have the cars?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, the question
that you have asked is not relevant because we were talking about the village heads unless this one is a new person. You must plead with me, otherwise I will not allow the Minister to answer.
* HON. ZWIZWAI: I am pleading Madam Speaker.
Thank you very much Madam Speaker. It is
already something in the pipeline. Let me just assure you that very shortly our chiefs will be given cars. At least we have 226 registered chiefs – [THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: How many?] - 226 chiefs. So, do not worry, if he has – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, address the Chair
Hon. Minister.
HON. NCUBE: Madam Speaker, something is in the pipeline.
We are through with the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development – [HON. MEMBERS: Why are you leaving others out?] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Hon. Members, the
Minister was giving an answer and you were busy shouting at him. Why were you asking him – [HON. MLISWA: Why is he leaving other chiefs out Madam Speaker?] – How do you know that some chiefs are being
left out?
HON. MLISWA: They are not 226 chiefs; there are 2800 chiefs who should benefit.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
question is that we are talking about the chiefs’ allowances and I have found it befitting that we should talk about the figure as well. Each village head and chiefs are given US$25. I want to ask the Minister, as a Ministry, what do you think the village head will do with that US$25 for the whole month? Do not you have plans to raise their allowances so that they will be able to buy something with that money? – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Pindurai Minister ndini ndirikufaitira masabhuku.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Minister before
you answer, Hon. Members, we have other questions which will backfire on us like the pegging of salaries. Those things require that people sit down; we cannot ask him to answer that now. At the moment, they have gone for 8 months without getting their salaries, on top of that why are you giving them US$25?
Thank you Madam Speaker. Regarding the
allowances of the kraal heads or village heads, they are not being given salaries but they are given allowances – [AN HON. MEMBER: How much?] – it is not for me to determine how much they should be given.
At least they are being given something - [HON. MEMBERS: US$25?] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development. In view of students on attachment from various universities in this country, I want to find out from the Minister; what is the policy direction in regards to paying full tuition fees for students who would be on attachment? Parents are having to folk out full fees for students who are on attachment for a full semester or a full year. What is the policy direction towards paying tuition fees during attachment of university students? Are you not thinking of having to cut to at least half the amount because lecturers would not be actually teaching those children, even if there are visits by lecturers to assess and monitor the work of the students on attachment, it will not be as much as the required full tuition to be paid? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you very much Madam Speaker and I want to thank the Hon. Member for a very pertinent question. We are indeed as a Ministry seized with the matter...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please raise
up you voice.
HON. DR. GANDAWA: I want to thank you and the Hon.
Member for the pertinent question. As a Ministry, we are seized with the matter. The matter has been brought to our attention when we had consultations with the students and we have engaged our institutions of higher learning to ascertain how much it costs, the actual amount it costs to assess the students. They are assessed twice during the year on which they are on attachment. I can assure the House and the Hon. Member
who asked the question that we are attending to that matter and the rightful cost will be charged, not the full fees that we are currently charging. So I want to thank the Hon. Member for this pertinent question. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am very grateful for the positive response by the Minister. Further I want to know whether there is going to be consultation with the parents of the students in terms of policy formulation towards that policy direction because they are part and parcel of the people who contribute or pay the tuition fees.
HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
I want to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. The aspect is not for the consultation with the parents like I indicated. The idea is that when the students are on attachment, we want to know the actual cost of the assessment or of the lecturers and remove in actual fact the tuition fees because they are not at the university or at the college. So, we thought when we get that cost, we will then look at it and then implement that policy as it is. Should there be need for us to consult the parents, it is a welcome idea. There is no harm in us consulting widely so that we come up with a policy that is inclusive.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I also
want to hear from the Minister because this is a very pertinent issue and it is one of the reasons why people went to the struggle. As Parliament, we were seized of the matter for about two to three years. Do we have a timeframe that there is termination and that we will get the answer to this so that we can evaluate the time that we have? We know that it is the system of Government that takes a lot of time doing their investigations. What is the timeframe and how long is it? When is it going to start and when is it going end because the nation is waiting.
You should not keep on postponing.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
HON. DR. GANDAWA): I want to thank you Madam Speaker and also want to thank Hon. Chamisa for the question which is very good. It is true that when you are working at least you should have timeframes...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, Hon.
Matangira, and your two colleagues, we are in the House and so please attend to the business of this House.
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: As I have said that we should have a
timeframe, it is true that this is an issue which Government has been seized of for a long time and it should be resolved. We have a Bill that pertains to principles that should govern the operations of all higher education institutions which has been passed by Cabinet. The past two days, the Ministers and the Vice Chancellors are back from outside where they had gone for further learning so that we help in the crafting of this Bill. In the morning we had a meeting with the drafter and so, we have given him two weeks for us to have the draft so that we send the draft to the Attorney-General so that they can write to us and that it is referred to CCL.
*HON. ZINDI: My point of order is whether the Minister is still answering the question on tuition fees in terms of timeframe, because I thought the supplementary was about timeframe, to do with the implementation of tuition fees so that parents will not pay when children are on attachment. I stand to be guided because I am lost.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let the Hon. Minister help
- I think you should be brief when answering.
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you Madam Speaker...
As Hon. Minister Dokora entered the House, Hon. Members started making noise, mimicking the bleating of goats.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members. What
is that? Can we have order please? Order in the House. Whoever will continue to say mee, I think I will send him/her out because we are not children but Hon. Members of Parliament.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I think when Hon. Dokora entered the
House that is when...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It wastes our time for nothing.
*HON. DR. GANDAWA: The Hon. Member thinks that I am lost
but the question that has been asked by Hon. Chamisa is very important.
So, I really wanted to explain that in July we are expecting to bring the Bill in this House. I just wanted to give you the road that we are taking instead of saying that we are coming in July, but as legislators, I wanted to show you the procedure so that Hon. Members will pass the law.
Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question goes to the Hon. Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. I just want to preface my question by extending a message from my constituency in particular from Jumbo Mine, Glendale, Kanyemba and Mazowe Rural...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think when
you start to make a list, that one may need a written question.
HON. CHASI: No, it is just an expression of people extending their thanks for the food that they received from Government...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Chasi.
HON. CHASI: Vanhu varikungotendawoka, haisi mhosva, but my question is that we have witnessed the proliferation of beggars in the streets, at traffic lights - particularly in the leafy suburbs of Harare and the concern is to say what is the response by Government to people with disabilities, especially those who are blind? The major concern is the use of children who accompany blind adults at these traffic lights. In view of the rights that are contained in our Constitution against the backdrop or the rights that are contained in Section 22 of the Constitution vis-a-vis those with disabilities and Section 19 vis-a-vis the rights of children, I would like to know what interventions the Ministry has with regards to those two groups of people? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for a very important question and the issues he has raised are quite important. I would request that he puts his request in writing.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. What is the policy of Government on dispensing of money from Treasury to local authorities, particularly looking at issues of repairing of roads and street lights. I have observed that, as a representative of the people…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, do you
understand what is being said? Can you go close to someone who can help you?
HON. GONESE: I just want to raise a point of order. Madam Speaker, we came up with the new Constitution. We know our official language and up to now I am surprised that this august House has not taken the necessary steps to have simultaneous translation so that whenever someone asks a question in Tonga, Shangani or Nambya and so on, we have somebody up there who is interpreting and we have earphones so that the Hon. Minister can hear at the same time that the question is being asked. I am surprised that three and half years down the line, in 2017, we have not taken the necessary steps to enable us to comply with the Constitution.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Gonese. First
of all, I did not stop the Hon. Member from asking in the language she likes. Secondly, you sit in the Standing Rules and Orders Committee, where I think you agree to do these things on time. You are part of all the procedures – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, can we have order please.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker I think that is not fair. These are matters – I hear you Madam Speaker…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are now eating into our
question time.
HON. GONESE: I understand but I want to implore the Chair. The Speaker is the head of administration Madam Speaker and I believe that the Chair should take the necessary administrative steps. Those are not matters which are dealt with by the Committee, but by your office - the Clerk of Parliament.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright, we will look into
that.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Maybe I will
have to start afresh. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Madam Speaker, I would like to know Government Policy on the disbursements of money or resources which are used in local authorities or residential areas, particularly looking at repairing of roads and street lights. Madam Speaker, I observe that where I come from in Bulawayo Central
Constituency, we have – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can we
hear what the Hon. Member is saying. I know it is because you do not understand the language.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: We have suburbs where there are rich people and it seems they are preferred when it comes to repairing their roads – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order in the House.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: We have suburbs like Northend, Source town and Trenance where we have middle income earners and when we look at the local authority, you find that they rush to repair roads where the rich live,disregard those who are poor. Their lights are not being repaired. I would like to know what the position of the Ministry is on that. What criteria do they use to attend to matters pertaining to such suburbs? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the
Hon. Member for the question. First and foremost, on the budget of the Ministry, there is provision that 10% should be allocated to the local authorities. However, the problem we are facing at the moment is that although the budget is out, we are still waiting to get the 10% from the
Treasury – [AN HON. MEMBER: 10%?] –
HON. CHINGOSHO: Yes, 10% of the budget…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, address the
Chair and do not respond to hecklings.
HON. CHINGOSHO: So as soon as that money is received I think we will take note of what you have said, as you have pointed out; places where rich people live are the places where services are being channeled and where people are poor, they are not getting the services. We take note of what the Hon. Member has said. As soon as that money comes, it should benefit those who are less advantaged. Thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I hear the Hon. Minister talking about lack of funding. The most surprising thing on roads rehabilitation is that, every time there is the Zimbabwe International Trade Fair (ZITF) in Bulawayo, Robert Mugabe Way is always resurfaced and road markings are put in place. My question is, if you are saying you have no money, where are you getting this money to resurface this road? In the whole of Bulawayo, it is the only road that is being resurfaced when as a country we declared our roads a national disaster. My question Madam Speaker is that; where are they getting the money and why specifically that road?
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The money that was used when they were preparing for the Trade Fair for rehabilitation was from ZINARA. Special authority was given and the council asked for permission to use the funds to prepare that road.
*HON. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity you have given me. My question to the Hon. Minister is that yes, there is money from Government which should be channeled to local councils but there is a report on local councils by the AuditorGeneral. If the report is negative, does the Government continue to give them the 10%? This is because if the money is given to the councils and they have not adhered to the recommendations of the Auditor-General, will the Government continue giving them money?
For example, Norton Town Council, the Auditor-General came up with her report and one of his recommendations was that the council was mismanaged. So, does the Government continue channeling money to councils like that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Hon. Madam Speaker. I want to thank
Hon. Mliswa for the question. What happens is that policy states that if the council does not abide by the recommendations of the Auditor –
General - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members on that corner. Hon. Ncube and your colleagues, can you please listen to what is happening here because the way you are laughing, it seems as if you are somewhere. I do not want to send someone outside. Can we please concentrate on what is happening in this august House?
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Government
policy states that if the council does not abide to the recommendations of the Auditor-General, they are not given the 10% unless they abide to what the report is saying. I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question goes to the Deputy Minister
of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services. It is my considered view that politics and political stories in the media have overshadowed developmental stories. I want to find out from the Minister whether Government has a policy on media content both in print or electronic that is biased towards developmental stories rather than politics. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
My apologies to the House for the devilish attach I almost went into. I thank the Hon. Member for such a pertinent question. In media, there is no policy which prevents anybody from speaking to the media on any issues except if they have been vetted by the system which will not allow scandalous issues to be publicised or spoken about. There is no policy really but the editors are supposed to ensure that whatever is put on print or electronic media is decent for the population of Zimbabwe so that even the children who watch television and those who have access to our newspaper can consume that product without getting polluted in their minds.
Although we encourage freedom of speech in this nation, we would encourage that the media, that is print and electronic would concentrate issues which are developmental more than issues which destroy the nation. I thank you.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Minister for your answer.
My supplementary question is that, is it possible for Government to put a law that enforces the media to report on development when there is no development. The other thing that is important is that on our radio stations, there are programmes with a lot of sexual content which are being aired. I have names of radio stations which are airing such programmes. Are you aware of such programmes because they are polluting the younger generation. Some children stay up late with radios in their bedrooms wanting to listen to such programmes. Are you in the process of removing such content?
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I was trying to follow what the Hon.
Member was saying because I am not very articulate in Shona. I think I understood and if I did not, he will correct me. Allow me to talk in English. We have the Censorship Board in Zimbabwe which deals with issues which are scandalous to some extent. Yes, we have freedom of expression but your freedom of expression should not encroach on other people’s freedoms.
You mentioned that some radio stations are publicising obscenities. It is unfortunate and I wish I had an opportunity to get which programmes are obscene and I would be pleased if the Hon. Member can favour me with that information. I know that there are some programmes which deal with relationships in homes – [AN HON. MEMBER: Chakafukidza dzimba.] - like the one the Hon. Member is mentioning. What I was getting at is that the purpose of such programmes is to try and build homes. Some controversies at homes comes about because of the issues to do with those things - [Laughter.]- because this is an Honourable House I do not want to touch on sensitive issues which I will be charged on. However, I want to assume that it is to try and build homes, try to fix squabbles amongst couples and ensure that we have a happy nation.
On the aspect of development – development is up to what an individual thinks is development. I am sure everyone in Zimbabwe is aware that we have so many progressive programmes which our Government has passed out to the nation. If you go out to the rural areas, people are busy in their fields as we speak, after the very good rains, which we received from the Almighty, people in rural areas and some in peri-urban areas, embarked on agriculture and they are reaping their harvest and I think that is developmental. We have various programmes which have been offered by Government departments from different Ministries which people can take. The Minister of Higher Education was talking about issues in their Ministries and so on and so forth. I heard some Hon. Members jesting with the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education saying mbudzi, which is development – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – yes, according to me. A home without mbudzi is not a home. Thank you.
HON. PARADZA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. In 2014 and 2015, there was hype when a panel of media inquiry went around the country soliciting for views from people and a thick report was produced. The report has not been debated or implemented and we have not heard anything concerning that report. What has happened to that report?
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I think the
Hon. Member is referring to the Information and Media Panel of Inquiry (IMPI) report, the 600 something paged document. We are yet to hold an Indaba with all stakeholders who participated when the teams led by Nyarota went out into the country to gather views on how we can improve our media space. Thereafter, we will bring some proposal to this august House so that we come up with a proper instrument which will guide the media.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Hon. Madam Speaker. I am
encouraged to hear the Hon. Minister indicating that the Government has a policy that recognizes freedom of expression and allows all manner of views to be heard except those views, that content that is obscene. My question to the Hon. Minister therefore is that, given the case, what is the Hon. Minister and her Ministry doing to ensure that there is coverage of different voices or put in a different way; are our views as opposition political parties and thoughts obscene and therefore is that why they do not receive equal and unbalanced coverage, particularly on the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation and State owned media. Are they obscene and therefore banned because of that?
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not
remember myself referring to obscenities from the opposition parties, from my response. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, can you repeat
your question so that the Minister understands what you have asked.
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker, my question is that the Hon.
Minister indicated that content that is censored or barred from the media, is that which is obscene and that generally all other content is allowed. Therefore, my question is that does the Government consider views, opinions and content from and about opposition political parties to be obscene. I asked that because it is generally not covered particularly in the state owned media like in ZBC. So, is it because maybe Government views those views as obscene because she said that only that which is obscene is censored? So, the view is our opposition views are considered as obscene and therefore not covered in the media why? HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Like I said earlier on, I do not think
news from opposition parties is obscene but nevertheless there is a lot of other media besides the so called State owned media, we have Daily
News, News Day, Zimbabwe Independent and others. Now, people in Zimbabwe are going on line, they are reading digital news. So, what I know is that if you invite ZBC to your programme, they should come and cover your event. Maybe if the Hon. Member can inform us of an incident when they invited the ZBC team and they did not come –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon. Mnengami,
please, we have other Hon. Members here present not yourself only. HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I have seen some news by the
opposition; I have seen the President of the opposition on news, even other Hon. Members on news. Like I said, if the Hon. Member can favour us with an instance when they invited ZBC and were denied coverage.
*HON. SEREMWE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, Hon. Mupfumira. There is an increase in the number of disabled persons at the roadblock intersections. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that these disabled people are removed from the roads? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order please. Hon.
Members, the Hon. Minister will respond to the question.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order, may I just correct the Hon.
Member?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes you may.
*HON. MLISWA: They are not called disabled people but
people living with disability challenges.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, it is
people living with disabilities. I think our Hon. Member has helped us. – [HON. MUTSEYAMI: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Mutseyami, surely help him Hon. Munengami because this time you are controlling your colleague.
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERIVES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Madam Speaker, I want
to thank the Hon. Member for his question but this question was asked by Hon. Chasi, so I will respond to it during the Oral Answers to Questions With Notice session.
I concur to the correction because we do not refer to people as things but they are referred to as peopled living with disabilities. We should respect others and not refer to people living with disabilities as things. It is just a point of correction but the Hon. Member’s question will be answered in conjunction with Hon. Chasi’s question.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I would
have loved to refer my question to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development but now that the Leader of the House is here, I will refer my question to him.
Hon. Vice President, revenue performance for this quota went down by 18.2% compared to the fourth quota of 2015 revenues which also constitutes the worst since 2013. What measures have you put in place as a Government to address this disturbing reality because without revenue, this country cannot move forward? I would like to know the measures you have put in place with reduction in revenues. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Wakaenda kuEngland ukauya nemarii!] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member – [HON. MUNENGAMI AND HON. MUTSEYAMI: You did not respect our VP, we also do not respect your VPs!]- - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, I am grateful that the Hon. Vice President of the opposition has asked that question. May I say that these things happen that in some quota, we fail to meet the projected revenue inflows. Generally, the first quota of each year, the inflows are lower but they increase during the second, third and fourth quotas of the financial year. It is not a surprising issue that the inflows during the first quota were low.
Secondly, I am sure you are aware that the economy, during the fourth quota last year, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development informed the country and the nation that he had lowered the GDP growth of the country as a result of constraints in the economy.
Recently, he has already upped both as Minister of Finance and
Economic Development and also under the World Bank and
International Monetary Fund (IMF). Country teams have indicated that the economy has now grown and the growth rate has now grown by another 1.6 or so beyond our initial projection. We should be happy now that the projections have gone beyond what we were producing before and not concentrate on the constraints that happened in the past because we shall never return to the past but continue to deal with the future. The future, currently in terms of the economy is bright.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My supplementary question to the Hon. Vice President is, you indicated that the Hon. Minister and other institutions reported a higher rate of growth but we continue to see queues everywhere in the streets. Queues that are caused by shortage of funds, we see banks struggling to discharge their obligations due to excessive borrowing by the Government. How do you intend to deal with those challenges that the economy is currently facing so that we alleviate the economic problems that Zimbabweans are facing?
HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The
growth of the economy is not determined by the length of queues in towns although - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – That could also be indicative of constraints and problems in an economy. What determines the growth in an economy are the statistics that are gathered in relation to various sectors of the economy as they grow. In this particular incident, the major growth was registered in agriculture and mining.
These two sectors of the economy have been able to drive the growth of the economy. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, the supplementary
question is coming from Hon. Khupe as the one who originated the question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I have got a point of order Madam
Speaker. I believe …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is now a point of order?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes, I said on a point of order Madam Speaker. I believe that the Hon. Vice President did not attend to my question. My question was, how does the Government intend to deal with these challenges which are symptoms of an economy that is in problems and he did not touch on that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Which means that
supplementary question was not supposed to come in because we want to deal with what Hon. Khupe was asking. Hon. Khupe, please proceed.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much. I would have loved the
Vice President to respond on this one. Madam Speaker, the Hon. Vice President alluded to the fact that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, may we have
order in the House please?
HON. KHUPE: The Hon. Vice President alluded to the fact that there is a bright future but according to the Global Competitiveness Index report, Zimbabwe has been ranked at 126 out of 139. How then can you say there is a bright future when we have been ranked so low?
Hon. Vice President, you also spoke about agriculture yet there are several other pillars of the economy which determine whether an economy is performing or not like the technological, infrastructural development, health and primary education. So, how then are you saying this economy is performing without looking at all these pillars of the economy?
HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA: Madam Speaker, the issues that
the Hon. Member is raising are issues of fact that we have challenges in all those sub-sectors of the economy. I have not said that every sector of the economy is registering growth – I have not said so. I indicated the areas which have registered growth and impacted on the overall picture of the economy in a positive manner - that is what I stated.
The issue of the fact that Zimbabwe is very low in ranking would now be improved with the positive indicators in the economy that have been identified not only by our own statistical office but also by the World Bank and the IMF. So, this spirit of positivity is what we must embrace as a nation. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Hon. Vice President. You talked about the projected growth, would you also attribute command agriculture to that projected growth? Secondly, I did hear you talk about command mining, is it also part of your vision in command mining to ensure that growth does get to what Government expects?
HON. MNANGAGWA: Madam Speaker, the current command
model relating to agriculture is not limited to agriculture. Where the command format lends itself to any sub-sector of the economy, we are at liberty as a nation to adopt it if it can bring positive results. It does not mean that we require specific sectors and say this model shall fit in mining, manufacturing or infrastructure – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members on my right,
please behave yourselves.
HON. MNANGAGWA: If it does fit, we shall adopt the model
but adjust it to meet the demands of that particular sub-sector of the economy if we feel it can fit and improve the thrust of economic growth in that sub-sector. I thank you.
HON. MUZONDIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I seek to move that time for Questions Without Notice be extended by 10 minutes. In saying so, I want to indicate that I have consulted with my counterpart the ZANU PF Chief Whip - [THE HON. DEPUTY
SPEAKER: Just shorten it.] – Yes, I just wanted to indicate that there was that consultation.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. MUZONDIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. Minister, may I know what Government policy is regarding the employment of ward coordinators and which Ministry they fall under? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. I assume she is referring to ward coordinators for the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development. The normal recruitment is through the Public Service Commission.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy regarding the processing of school fees for those students who are under STEM vis a vis the opening of schools because as of now, those STEM students are not being allowed either to get into schools whether they are boarder or not. What is Government policy regarding the late payment of school fees to the relevant schools? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVEOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Thank you very much Mr. Speaker and I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The policy with regards to payment of the fees for students that are on STEM is that schools submit the invoices to ZIMDEF which in turn will pay the full fees. I am aware of the issue that he has raised. There are certain schools that have not received the fees to date and I am sure the matter is being attended to. I think by tomorrow the fees will have been paid for those schools that have not received the fees. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Minister for the answer. What happens to those students who would have come for their school education because they are not even allowed to get into the school premises even though they are supposed to be in school?
HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I
am sure we should be able to attend to the matter because we were not aware that there are students that were denied access to the schools. I want to thank the Hon. Member for bringing it to our attention and it will receive due attention. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MLISWA: My supplementary to the Minister is, with the school kids coming in there is certainly a new curriculum which is there. What has his Ministry done as a line ministry to ensure that the teachers are trained because Hon. Dr. Dokora’s vision has been accepted by Cabinet but the line ministries should also accept that. What has your Ministry done with the training of teachers so that they can be able to teach those kids?
HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I seek
your indulgence for the Hon. Member to repeat his question; I did not get it clearly.
HON. MLISWA: Hon. Minister, kids are coming back to school, there is a new curriculum which is there. What has your Ministry done as a line ministry in order to support Hon. Dokora’s new curriculum because his Ministry is not responsible for training the teachers? What have you done as a Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development to augment and support his vision?
HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
It is indeed the responsibility of the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development to train the teachers and we work in collaboration with our sister ministry, the Ministry of
Primary and Secondary Education. By adopting the new curriculum, it automatically means we have to look into the curriculum of the teacher training colleges. We are actually in the process of refining the curriculum of the teacher training colleges to have specialised teachers that the Hon. Member is raising. It is a pertinent issue and it will receive attention. There is a process that is currently running for a teacher capacity development which is already in process and there are five universities that have been assigned which are working with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to address the gaps that were caused by the change of the curriculum while the long term process of training the teachers in the colleges is being looked at. Thank You Mr. speaker Sir.
HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education Hon. Dr. Dokora. Hon. Minister what is the Government policy on distance between schools to the other?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON., MARUMAHOKO):
Order Hon. Mawere.
HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: I say so because every house in Harare has become a school. You can go to Hillside, you see a house inscribed enrollment Grade 1 – 7. How many people does a house carry?
That is my question and the distance as well. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Hon. Speaker and I
want to thank the Hon. Member for the question that has been raised –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order in the House Hon. Members.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I noticed that whereas in the biology of human species, we do not ordinarily emit sounds coming from the animal kingdom, but I could be mistaken for thinking otherwise especially on the right side of the House. I hope they are well. Anyway, the Hon. Member raises the question and asks about the optimal distance between household and the child school. For the primary school, the radius is 5 kilometres and for the secondary school, the radius is 10 kilometres. However, it is common knowledge and we have presented matters here in the House that we do have a deficit which we have now set out to try and correct and those measures are in place.
To the second aspect of the question which says that almost every house in Hillside has turned into a school, I think this is a matter for administrative measures that should be taken, because schools or school entities should be formally registered. If there are illegal establishments in those areas, quite clearly, I would be grateful to take the list to the Secretariat of the Ministry to deal with those matters. I thank you.
HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: Hon. Minister, does your Ministry have the mechanism to make a follow-up on these illegal entities of schools?
HON. DR. DOKORA: I am grateful that the Hon. Member has made this follow-up question. In the middle of 2016, when we presented our new structure that will assist us in the mainstreaming of the updated curriculum, we sought and were granted 305 posts that relate to school supervision by the Public Service Commission through the line Ministry of Hon. Minister Mupfumira. So, we have decentralised our key personnel to the 72 districts and instead of being headed by a District
Education Officer, they are now headed by a District Schools Inspector. The inspectorate behaves totally differently from what an education officer would have done. So, we have the teeth and we can set about correcting the anomaly.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I am very happy Hon. Speaker that finally the Leader of Government business in Parliament is here. We have a total number of 47 Ministers in Zimbabwe and I have checked with my register, we have not had more than 7 Ministers coming into the Chamber. I am saying this in the context of Deputy Ministers to the number of about 24, making it a total of 71. If you look at the turn-over of our Ministers, we do have Ministers who are regular in their attendance of Parliament and we must appreciate them.
We have the likes of Dr. Made, the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa being one of them, Dr. Dokora, inasmuch as we have issues, he is also very consistent. We also have Hon. Mupfumira and Hon. Chidhakwa and others come at times. I just want to say we are raising this to the Leader of Government to say as Parliament, is it not possible to say this is our last call and our last request to Ministers to being in attendance. Next time Hon. Vice President, we are going to move a motion and it is going to be a by-partisan motion to say that those who are not coming to Parliament as Ministers without leave, in terms of Section 107 (2); we are going to invoke the powers that are within Parliament of Contempt of Parliament.
We are aware Hon. Vice President that the Speaker has written to the President and you have made representations in Cabinet. So, may this be known and may this be understood, because we are not happy as Parliament on account of absenteeism by a number of our Ministers consistently, in terms of not attending Parliament. Having said that also is to inquire from the Hon. Minister of Mines when the Ministerial Statement which he promised on the missing $15 billion is going to be presented to Parliament. That $15 billion is haunting us everywhere. It is almost like a bad spirit or an evil spirit. Are we able to be clear to the nation what has happened as regards that $15 billion? Thank you Hon.
Speaker Sir.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I understood that the Hon. Member was presenting a point of order which requires a ruling from the
Speaker. However, I can reply. I am happy that Ministers are in. Some Ministers are not in the country and some are engaged elsewhere but the crop of Ministers are in the Chamber is adequate to deal with any policy issues, in particular when two Vice Presidents are in. I do not think there is any inadequacy in relation to the issues of policy. So Mr. Speaker, I believe that it was a point of order which the Hon. Member raised which possibly you can make a ruling.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, let me say
that the issue of the $15 billion is an issue of the work that is being done by the Auditor General and the Auditor General and the companies that have been appointed have not yet told us what the outcome of the investigations were. Therefore, it is not yet time for me to bring to this House a report on the $15 billion and I entreat the House to be patient. I think from the Auditor General’s perspective and her team of people working, it is a matter of great detail. Whatever they do must be such that it is unassailable at law, because if it is, she could also be sued for presenting information that is improper. The companies also that have been given the work to do would want to do their work in such a way that it is unassailable at law. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MLISWA: I think the issue that Hon. Chamisa brought up was a Ministerial Statement and he can issue it by saying that the
Auditor-General’s report is at the issue. What is wrong with issuing a statement? This is an issue which the nation must know and the
Minister can equally say that there are investigations going on and the Auditor-General’s Office is seized with this matter and therefore, we shall inform you when the – why can he not issue a statement pertaining to that because the diamond industry is being run like a mafia and it continues to be run that way – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – we need him to issue that statement so that we can hold the Auditor-General accountable.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you and I want to thank Hon…
HON. MLISWA: The point of order is not for the Minister to respond, it is for you the Chair to respond to what I have said. In this regard, I have guided you in saying that you can tell him to issue a statement. It is either you tell him or you do not. We are a House of rules.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am actually
finalising a Ministerial Statement on the first quarter of 2017 on the mining sector. In doing so, I will also include matters to do with the diamond sector, specifically to do with the question that was presented in this House by Hon. Members of Parliament. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of order
is with regards to clarity with the Minister. There is a question in this
House which I asked the Hon. Minister about three months ago and the Hon. Minister pointed out that he was going to give a response. The question is with regard to the State of the Nation Address, which was done by His Excellency, the President. His Excellency pointed out that a US$100 million loan facility was given to the artisanal miners and it has produced a situation whereby we have no production of gold. However, the truth of the matter is that not even US100 million was given to artisanal miners. My question to the Hon. Minister then, which he said he was going to do a research was, who gave His Excellency the information that, US$100 million loan facility was given to artisanal miners, leading to him giving a statement to the nation on something which never happened. Somewhere somehow, there is an Honourable someone who lied to His Excellency that a US$100 million was disbursed. What happened? To this day, he has not given an answer.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister do you have an
input to the point of order that has been raised.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: No Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: My question is not to do with the Hon. Minister as a person. My question is to do with accountability with regards to the Hon. Minister as a line ministry to account as to who informed the President falsehoods. This is because the President pointed out clearly in his State of the Nation Address, that a US$100 million loan facility was given to artisanal miners, which resulted in more production of gold when it never happened. So, who gave information to the President to that effect? The Hon. Minister must clarify. We cannot just say the Minister stands and says ‘no’. For how long will that no last, because the public has to know? Zimbabweans and the tax payers must know. Who took the US$100 million?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Hon. Minister of Mines, I think it is important that you take note of the point of order and then you bring an appropriate answer to the House.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
RECOURSE TAKEN BY FARMERS WHO HAVE NOT
BENEFITTED FROM PROCEEDS PUT TOWARDS THE
PURCHASE OF TREASURY BILLS SINCE 2007
- 1. KANHANGA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain to the House the recourse that may be taken by farmers who have not benefitted from the proceeds that were put towards the purchase of Treasury Bills since 2007.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT
(HON. CHIDHAKWA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, I have been unable to get the import of the question posed by Hon. Kanhanga. Accordingly, I respectfully ask him to clarify his question so that I can give a proper response to him.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Your answer is not very clear
because this question is a question with notice, meaning that the
Minister has been informed and your office has been given this question. Now, I do not seem to understand what you are saying when you say that it is not very clear. I do not know whether you said it is not very clear because I was actually attending to somebody. You want some clarification?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the question refers to the purchase of Treasury Bills since 2007 and refers to proceeds. In discussion with the Minister of Finance before he left, we were not able to establish what that means in terms of its benefit to the farmers. How you relate the farmers and to the proceeds of the purchase of Treasury Bills, that is what the Minister of Finance and Economic Development asked me to seek clarification on from the Hon. Member so that whatever answer we give to him will take into account the two issues that are contained.
*HON. KANHANGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The year that we are referring to - 2007/2008, tobacco farmers had 5% being taken from the tobacco they were selling. Others got some rebates but some of us did not get it. That is why we are asking this question. What was the procedure? Some got the rebates and some did not, it is like the Treasury Bills is the money that you use and it has to mature and we should get it back. I hope I have clarified my question.
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: I do now understand the issue and I
think that it is an issue of the rebate that was supposed to come to farmers including the Honourable Member of Parliament. I want to discuss with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development so that we can resolve the issue. If one part of the farmers benefited from a reimbursement, surely another part of the same grouping should be able to benefit from a rebate. I seek leave to allow me to speak to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to sort out the matter. I thank you.
DUTY ON IMPORTED BOOKS
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development:
- To explain why the Ministry is imposing duties on imported books by promulgating Statutory Instrument 115 of 2015, in contravention of Government’s undertaking as a signatory to the UNESCO Florence Agreement on importation of Educational,
Scientific and Cultural Materials not to apply customs duty or other charged on books, publications and documents which are not used for advertising purposes;
- To indicate to the House whether or not the Ministry is aware that these duties charged on imported goods have had the consequence of increasing the retail price of books and affecting the viability of publishers and authentic booksellers in the country.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): (a) Hon. Members will recall that in the 2015 Mid-Term Policy Review Statement, I indicated that capacity utilisation in the printing and publishing industry had declined, mainly due to an influx of cheap imported printed products, lack of access to affordable funding and obsolete equipment, among other challenges.
The intention however, was not to levy duty on textbooks, since the local industry does not have capacity to produce all ranges of textbooks, especially for higher and tertiary education.
I, therefore, proposed to levy duty on selected finished products in respect of which local industry has built capacity such as cartons, boxes, sacks, bags, exercise books and printed cards, among others.
Consequently, Statutory Instrument 115 of 2015 which provides for duty free importation of textbooks was gazetted on 23 October 2015.
- With respect to the second leg of the question, as already indicated, the retail price of books could not have increased due to the levy of customs duties since it has been waived. Please refer to Statutory
Instrument 115 of 2015.
Whereas the local industry has capacity to produce textbooks for use in primary and secondary education, these are, however, imported. Consequently, some local publishers have relocated to neighbouring countries due to low volume of business.
HON. MAJOME: My supplementary question is that while I have
noted the Ministry’s noble intention not to prejudice the publishers of textbooks, is the Hon. Minister aware that by failing to define exactly what a textbooks is in that Statutory Instrument, it has the effect of customs officials also giving an embargo on textbooks that are not available in the country. Is he possibly going to investigate to find out this because if he does just say that is not happening when in fact on the ground that is happening, it does continue to cause problems? I thank you.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: My knowledge of the Customs Tariff
Handbook is that it is divided into tariff sub-heads and the tariff sub heads will define the specific items that are listed under that particular head. If indeed the tariff handbook and Statutory Instrument 115 of 2015 do not coincide, I think it should be adjusted to reflect what the policy position as taken by Government should be. Allow me to pursue the request by Hon. Majome and make sure that there is agreement between the policy position as taken by Government and the tariff heads as contained in our tariff sub head. I thank you.
REHABILITATION OF MANYUCHI BRIDGE IN
MATEBELELAND SOUTH
- HON. L. MOYO asked the Minister of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage to inform the House, what steps the Ministry is taking to rehabilitate the Manyuchi Bridge below
Manyuchi Dam and the Chipwe Bridges in Maranda Area which link Mberengwa, Mwenezi and Beitbridge in Matabeleland South.
THE MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND
PRESERVATION OF CULTURE AND HERITAGE (HON. A.
NCUBE): Firstly, the said bridges are under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development which is better positioned to respond to this question. What I can confirm is the condition of the roads. The said bridges are in Mwenezi District which is in Masvingo Province and not Matabeleland South. Manyuchi is a road that was washed away and destroyed by Cyclone Eline long back and has therefore become impassable. The stretch falls under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Likewise Chibwe Bridge was washed away by the rains during the Cyclone Eline period resulting in the area also being impassible as it links Mberengwa, Mwenezi and Beitbridge. I thank you.
MEASURES TO ALLEVIATE THE PLIGHT OF KRAAL HEADS
- HON. GANGARAHWE asked the Minister of Rural Development, Preservation of Culture and Heritage to inform the House which measures the Ministry is putting in place to alleviate the plight of Kraal Heads who are required to travel to nearby towns to withdraw the twenty five dollars that they are entitled to, resulting in them using as much as ten dollars transport and paying five dollars in bank charges leaving them with very little money or nothing as they have to travel twice due to cash shortages from the Mhondoro - Mubaira Constituency.
THE MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND
PRESERVATION OF NATIONAL CULTURE AND HERITAGE
(HON. A. NCUBE): I would like to acknowledge that the matter raised by the Hon. Member is indeed critical and merits urgent attention. As you may be aware, the village heads used to get their allowances at their respective station as cash from the District Administrator’s Office. However, due to the cash challenges, the District Administrators can no longer access cash from the banks to disburse to the village heads. In January 2017, the Ministry was instructed by the Accountant General to pay village heads allowances through online platforms.
Following the above instruction, the Ministry has engaged mobile service providers namely Net One, Telecel and Econet so that the village heads were given the opportunities to choose the service provider of their choice. The process is now at an advanced stage and some provinces like Midlands and Manicaland are already implementing the system.
MEASURES TO ASSIST PEOPLE IN AREAS WITH INADEQUATE
RAINFALL
- 14. MUDAU asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to inform the House on the measures the Ministry has put in place to assist people in areas where there was inadequate rainfall and to further elaborate on what Government intends to do as a way of assisting those who lost their crops to wild animals such as elephants.
*HON. MUZONDIWA: On a point of privilege! There is a door that has loosened from its hinges that is posing a danger to Hon. Members. If possible can it be removed because it is hanging. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr. Speaker.
The Ministry has always been reaching out to food insecure households across the country despite there being a declaration of State of
Emergency. The Ministry is actively and strategically deployed in all
the provinces, in particular the rural areas to mitigate the plight of our citizens. In areas where there has been inadequate rainfall, the food deficit mitigation programme is covering those.
I urge the Hon. Members to ensure that the affected family data is captured by the department of social welfare in that particular district. A fully fledged inter-ministerial committee is present to administer food distribution. We are also encouraging affected families to involve themselves in food for work programmes, particularly those able bodied people and other beneficiaries. We only give the disabled, the chronically ill and people living with other disabilities and the elderly, food without need for work.
On those who lost their crops due to wildlife attacks, my Ministry is coordinating with the Minister responsible for wildlife to ensure that the data is accurately captured and affected families are placed in the food deficit mitigation programme. Measures are also being put in place to ensure that the elephants do not cause further harm to human beings. Ordinarily, my Ministry has in place, the public assistance programme for the various vulnerable groups. The beneficiaries after assessment are given the public assistance programme. Our conditions are always open.
HON. MAONDERA: Hon. Minister, is it your policy that those people who are getting paltry NSSA pension are not eligible for food assistance?
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Ordinarily, the people we give food
assistance would be elderly, the disabled, the chronically ill and the child headed families under normal circumstances. However, this year, because of the draught, we have extended to include able bodied who might be in the group you are talking about, those people receiving paltry pensions, they will be included but we expect them to do food for work programmes in their areas. Thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: Hon. Minister, are you aware that your officers in the department of social welfare are turning away people if they are once verified on NSSA pension in various districts, particularly in urban areas.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank
the Hon. Member, I am not aware that our officers are turning away people who are on paltry pension but as I said, we have an assessment in progress which identifies those people who are definitely in need of assistance. If there are any officers who are turning away people who are eligible, I would kindly ask the Hon. Member to ensure that it is brought to our attention.
*HON. MUPFUMI: In Manicaland, there is no food that has been distributed even to those disadvantaged people. So, what is Government policy with regards to food assistance to everyone whether in the rural or in urban areas because there is no food assistance that came to my constituency.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Like I said earlier on, under normal circumstances, people who are given food aid are the elderly, the chronically ill, the disabled and child headed families. However, this year, there was drought, so we even extended the programme into urban areas because the food mitigation programme which was there was only touching the eight rural provinces but because of drought, we extended to urban areas.
I have once given a Ministerial Statement but I will explain again how the food aid programme is being conducted in the provinces. There is a Drought Relief Committee that is chaired by the Provincial Administrator that involves a number of ministries and local leadership in those provinces. The Provincial Minister oversees that committee on how the programme is progressing and the others are the secretariat. The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services caters for the vulnerable. It is the Provincial Ministers who have complete oversight of the programme.
I can give an example because I once responded to a similar question. For example, the issue of rice, all the provinces received 1 750 tonnes of rice that was supposed to be distributed being headed by the Provincial Minister and Provincial Administrator. My department comes in as the secretariat only because we cater for vulnerable people. Some Provincial Ministers did not ensure the success of the distribution programme as it was supposed to be conducted across all the constituencies with the identification of all the vulnerable people. You can ask me that of the normal social welfare but this now involves Provincial Administrators and they are responsible.
I was being assisted to engage all the Provincial Ministers on how they can distribute by the Minister of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage, Hon. Ncube. We deal with challenges on an individual basis but the best approach is for the Provincial Minister, Provincial Administrator and provincial heads to sit down and identify the beneficiaries of the food. I thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: The Hon. Minister said, if I heard her
well that she distributed and allocated the maize then the distribution is done by the Provincial Administrators. My question is, if she allocated that rice, how then does she evaluate in terms of who benefited and who did not? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hausi Minister nyarara!
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I want to
thank the Hon. Member. What happens on a weekly basis is, I need a report of what is happening in all the provinces and districts hence reports are compiled. I am assuming from the ward to the district to the province and those figures are fed into the Department of Social Welfare. Based on those figures, we will assess and see how many people have benefited in all the provinces. The details can be availed to the House because we are given registers of beneficiaries from the distribution. I thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. At some point in this august House, the Hon. Minister made an undertaking that she was going to visit Mutasa South Constituency to witness the food distribution in order to ensure that food was not being distributed in a partisan manner.
Earlier when I spoke to Hon. Saruwaka, the Member of Parliament for Mutasa South, he advised that the Hon. Minister has not been to Mutasa South Constituency. May the Hon. Minister inform the House as to why, after she had made an undertaking, she did not go there?
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank
the Hon. Member for that question. I am sure you all appreciate the fact that the Minister cannot physically be present in all the constituencies, districts and wards. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – However, the Minister, through her Ministry officials sent a high level delegation comprising of my Deputy Minister and Provincial Principal
Director to Mutasa to find out … - [AN HON. MEMBER: No one
went!] – I have got reports and I know that happened Mr. Speaker. I could not be there physically but my Deputy, Principal Director and other officials went to investigate because certain allegations had been made – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The report is there, and I came through my officials and Deputy Minister. I thank you.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you, in terms of provisions of
Section 69 (d), Hon. Saruwaka had a programme to which he invited the
Hon. Minister to. The Hon. Minister acknowledged that she would attend the programme and because I was an interested party in the distribution of food in Musikavanhu, I also attended the function.
Hon. Minister, you were not there and even the officials and the Shadow Minister that you are talking about did not attend because I was there attending the function. Where did they come from Hon. Minister?
– [AN HON. MEMBER: Minister ndewe Government!]-
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: The Minister belongs to the Government,
it is true but when I reported I did not say I attended the function that was arranged by the Hon. Member of Parliament. When I received the invitation, I resolved that I would go to the district but I ended up delegating my Deputy, Principal Director and other officials to go and investigate and find out what had happened. Our findings revealed some challenges that were there and were then rectified. I did not attend their meeting but I said I sent a team instead to investigate. I thank you. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Pursuant to Section 56 of the Standing Orders – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We are a House of rules and I would like us to stick to the rules. Pursuant to Section 56, provisions of Section 37, we must be 70 and we are not 70. We must take the business of this House seriously especially when Ministers are here to respond and the Chief Whips must do their work. Unfortunately, I am not whipped but I am here and I actually whip myself. Why can they not whip others? As a result, I am therefore lifting the Standing Orders based on Section 56 (1) Mr.
Speaker Sir.
[Bells rung.]
[Quorum formed.]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order in the House. We have
got the required quorum in the House, so the business of the House should continue.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
POLICY ON WITHDRAWAL LIMITS FROM BANKS
- 2. CROSS asked the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development to explain to the House the current domestic debt of the Government in terms of Treasury Bills, Reserve Bank Overdraft and any other domestic liabilities or loans and to further give an estimate of the interest being incurred on these liabilities.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
(HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, on the 11th April 2017 I gave a detailed Ministerial Statement on Treasury Bills. I am sure I covered all the issues being raised by Hon. Cross.
POLICY ON WITHDRAWAL LIMITS FROM BANKS
- HON. MANGWENDE asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to explain the government policy with regards to the withdrawal limits from banks by clients who are not civil servants considering that some women are sit and sleep all day by the banks.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, on the 4th April 2017, I gave a detailed Ministerial Statement on cash shortages and queues at banks. I am sure I covered all the issues being raised by Hon. Mangwende.
INITIATIVES TO MOVE AWAY FROM HARMFUL CULTURAL
PRACTICES THAT AFFECT THE GIRL CHILD
- HON. MNANGAGWA asked the Minister of Rural
Development, Preservation of Culture and Heritage to inform the House on the initiatives and efforts that have been made to date by the traditional and community leadership to move away from harmful cultural practices that negatively affect the future of a girl child.
THE MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND
PRESERVATION OF NATIONAL CULTURE AND HERITAGE
(HON. A. NCUBE): Chiefs network with Government Ministries, developmental partners, schools and Community based organisations in discouraging harmful cultural practices against the girl child. They conduct community meetings to urge parents to afford all girl children the opportunity to go to school for example campaigns held in Nyanga District of Manicaland Province. They institute stiffer penalties against perpetrators. They advocate for eradication of early child marriage at ward meetings. Of late village heads have been incorporated into Village and Community Child Protection Committees.
However, Chiefs are requesting for authority to preside over criminal cases involving girl child in order to be more effective. Thank you.
PLANS ON FOOD AID TO DESERVING HOUSEHOLDS
- HON. MPOFU asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House what plans the Ministry has put in place to continue providing food aid to deserving households considering that the current food aid programme is coming to an end.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Mr. Speaker, the
Ministry has always been reaching out to the food insecure households across the country, despite there being a declaration of state of the disaster drought period.
My Ministry is guided by the results of the Crop and Livelihood
Assessment which is religiously conducted every year by the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. These results will also be complimented by those produced by the Zimbabwe Vulnerability Assessment Committee which will determine the number of food insecure households requiring assistance each year.
Let me emphasize that, my Ministry’s mandate is to offer social protection to the vulnerable of the society and these include the food insecure households. Therefore, let me assure you that as soon as the results of the aforementioned assessments are produced, my Ministry will immediately embark on a nationwide food distribution programme under the usual Food Deficit Mitigation Programme to those who would have been identified to be in need of food assistance.
Therefore, Hon. Members, be advised that it has been and will always be my Ministry’s mandate to provide food assistance to food insecure households after the production of the assessment reports by the
Crop and Livelihood Assessment and the ZIM VAC.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
TABLING OF VALUE FOR MONEY REPORT
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Mr. Speaker, by way of
background, the office of the Auditor-General is mandated to conduct routine value for money audit. I hereby seek your approval to table the Value for Money Report on the Management of National Pension and other benefits schemes, Statutory Instrument 393 of 1993 and Accident
Prevention and Workers’ Compensation Insurance Scheme, Statutory Instrument 68, of 1990. I thank you.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA), the
House adjourned at Eight Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 9th May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to draw the attention
of the House to an error on today’s Order Paper wherein Order of the
Day, Number 1 has been erroneously reflected as Consideration Stage:
Estates Administrators Amendment Bill [H.B. 8A, 2016] instead of the
Second Reading: Estates Administrators Amendment Bill [H.B. 8A, 2016].
*HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order. Thank you Madam
Speaker for according me this opportunity. The Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing tabled a report which we received in this House. We normally say that the Executive is not implementing the recommendations of Parliament but as a House, we are not implementing our recommendations. The Portfolio
Committee said it point blank that Hon. Chigumba is a land baron in Chitungwiza. So, as Parliament, what are you going to do because one of us is a land baron? Land barons are causing a lot of problems. Are we going to chase the Hon. Member from this House?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Whatever we do in this
House is procedural. We do not just chase people away. Would you please take your seat so that we can proceed?
*HON. MARIDADI: That is the procedure that I was asking for. *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is not that he will be
chased away. The Minister will look into that.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): With the indulgence of the House, may I move that
Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until
Order Number 2, 3 and 4 are disposed of?
Motion put and agreed to.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDMENT BILL (EASE OF SETTLING
COMMERCIAL AND OTHER DISPUTES) [H.B. 4A, 2016]
Second Order read: Consideration: Judicial Laws Amendment Bill
(Ease of Settling Commercial and Other Disputes) [H.B. 4A, 2016]
Amendment to Clause 5 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDEMENT BILL (EASE OF SETTLING
COMMERCIAL AND OTHER DISPUTES) [H. B. 4A, 2016]
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker Ma’am, I now move that the Bill be
read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
DEEDS REGISTRIES AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 3A, 2016]
Amendments to Clauses 4 and 5 put and agreed to.
Bill as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forth with.
THIRD READING
DEEDS REGISTRIES AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 3A, 2016]
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move that the Bill be read a third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
SECOND READING
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (No. 1) BILL
[H.B. 1, 2017]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 1) Bill [H.B. 1, 2017].
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, allow me at the outset, to reaffirm the commitment of Government in its constitutional implementation, to deepen the sacrosanct principles of constitutionalism in our flourishing constitutional democracy. The long and arduous constitutional development of our young nation, has taught us that there is more to gain in religiously adhering to the dictates of constitutionalism including the principles of separation of powers, judicial independence and rule of law. These principles can only be of utility towards sound constitutional implementation if both the content and substance and adjectival aspects of our constitutional, legislative and administrative frameworks are above board.
Madam Speaker, the constitutional framework for judicial independence in any jurisdiction is paramount in determining the quality of justice delivery, access to justice and the administration of justice. These aspects are indeed intricately linked to the procedure of appointment of heads of the judiciary and other judges. Such appointment must be executed in a manner that does not compromise the constitutional, legislative and administrative values and etiquette expected of such crucial officials. The appointment procedure must be in tandem with international best practice and be subjected to proper administrative processes with no internal and external influence whatsoever. This can only be achieved when the constitutional bedrock on which such appointments should be anchored is solid enough to arrest any mischief, perceptions and challenges that may arise in the administration of justice. This Bill is brought before this august House in order to reflect the spirit and letter of the above espoused values.
Madam Speaker, the purpose of proposing this constitutional
Amendment Bill stems from serious concerns regarding the procedures of appointment for the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President of the High Court. It has become public knowledge that, with the current constitutional framework on appointment of the heads of the judiciary, the probability of subjecting some judicial officers to public interviews by members of the Judicial Service Commission to which they are also members is high. This will also create a probable situation where junior members of the JSC find themselves in an invidious position to interview their superiors.
Furthermore, the possibility of the outgoing Chief Justice, who invariably and by virtue of him or her being the Chairperson of the JSC of presiding over the interview process of his or her potential successor are inescapable under the current constitutional regime. This without doubt is irregular, inappropriate and stands firm to violate the principle of separation of powers, checks and balances and good governance. In any event, it is quite unexampled and has no precedent in the American,
Asian, African, Caribbean, Pacific and Scandinavian jurisdictions.
Madam Speaker, this Bill seeks to regularise the above. It will amend the Constitution by substituting section 180, which provides for the appointment of judges. The appointment procedure for all judges will remain as it is except for the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President of the High Court. It is proposed by this amendment that these three officials will be appointed by the President after consultations with the Judicial Service Commission (in various jurisdictions around the world, and under the previous Constitution the appointment of all judges was done in this way except for the Judge President who was appointed by the Chief Justice). If the appointment of a Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice or Judge President of the High Court is not consistent with any recommendation made by the Judicial Service Commission made during the course of the consultation, then the President will have to inform the Senate of that fact as soon as possible.
Consequent to the foregoing amendment, paragraph 18(3) of the
Sixth Schedule to the Constitution, titled Commencement of this Constitution, Transitional Provisions and Savings, is also amended by excluding vacancies in the offices of Chief Justice and Deputy Chief Justice from the scope of that provision.
Further, paragraph 18 (6) of the sixth schedule of the
Constitution has been misconstrued to mean that judges of the Labour
Court and the Administrative Court are at par with judges of the High
Court and that the Judge President of the Labour Court is at par with the Judge President of the High Court when in actual fact the High Court has inherent jurisdiction in terms of Sections 171 and 176 of the Constitution respectively. Given the fact that the Administrative Court and the Labour Court are specialised courts meant to deal with particular areas of law, it was never the original intent to place these courts at the same level with the High Court which has original jurisdiction on any area of the law.
Madam Speaker, in view of the foregoing, the proposed Constitution Amendment (No.1) Bill, therefore seeks to introduce a separate appointment procedure for the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President of the High Court. Furthermore, it seeks to bring more clarity to Section 174 by providing an explicit provision to the effect that the Labour Court and the Administrative Court are subordinate to the High Court.
Madam Speaker, this brings me to the specific contents of the Bill before Hon. Members. The Constitution Amendment Bill contains eight clauses.
Clause 1 of the Bill sets out the Short Title of the Bill which we all have become familiar of.
Clause 2 is the Interpretation section and defines the term
“Constitution” as the Constitution of Zimbabwe as set forth in the Schedule to the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act of 2013.
Clause 3 amends Section 172 (1) (a) by insertion of a new paragraph (a) which says “a senior judge.”
Clause 4 amends Section 173 (1) (a) by its substitution with the phrase “a senior judge”.
Clause 5 amends Section 174 by the insertion of a new subsection 2 which clarifies that the Labour Court and the Administrative Court are subordinate to the High Court without taking away the salaries, allowances and benefits of the judges of the subordinate courts.
Clause 6 amends Section 180 by the insertion of a new section that clearly sets out the appointment of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President of the High Court as being done by the President in consultation with the Judicial Service Commission.
Clause 7 amends Section 181 (2) (b) and (c) of the Constitution by changing the titles of the ‘Judge President’ of the Labour Court and the Administrative Court to ‘senior judge’.
Finally, Clause 8 amends the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution, paragraph 18 (3) by excluding the vacancies of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President of the High Court from the scope of the provision.
Madam Speaker, Hon. Members will note that this Bill is crucial as it ensures that the appointment procedure for the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and Judge President of the High Court is regularised in line with the sacrosanct principles of separation of powers, checks and balances and good governance. It also seeks to bring the appointment procedure in line with good international best practices implemented in other jurisdictions the world over, in a manner that promote and depends our deep seated democratic principle of constitutionalism.
Madam Speaker, I now commend the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No.1) Bill (H.B. 1. 2017), to the House and move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I am
seeking an adjournment of the debate for the reason that in terms of the provisions of Section 328 of our Constitution, when it comes to all Constitutional Bills, there is a legal requirement that public meetings must be held. The public meetings by the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs were held. However, the Committee has not yet sat down to deliberate and adopt a report which will then set the tone for the debate which is going to ensue in the House. The next meeting of the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is scheduled for Monday next week.
The Committee met yesterday but it was also seized with another report on the National Peace and Reconciliation Bill as a result of which there was insufficient time to deliberate on the report for this particular
Bill. It is for that reason that I am seeking the indulgence of the Hon. Vice President to allow the Committee to inform the House of its findings which will then guide the other Hon. Members in the debate which is going to ensue. I so move Madam Speaker.
HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA: Madam Speaker, were it not for
the reason that this Bill is extremely important, I would not have acceded much more so because the appeal has come from Hon. Gonese who has always stood in my way when I seek his cooperation -
[Laughter.]- But because this Bill is critically important, for that reason I will accept his request. I now move that debate be adjourned. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Just a point of clarification Hon.
Madam Speaker. I also seek clarification in terms of Section 324 if we have also complied. I see that there is a double-barreled requirement of having public hearings and also enjoining Parliament to write to the public inviting them to have written submissions. I was just enquiring with the Chairperson of the Legal Committee and he indicated that perhaps it is something that borders on conjecture because nothing formal and official has been made or done to make sure that there are written submissions from members of the public and stakeholders because this is a very important Bill as the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has said. This is a very important Bill and of course, it would require a robust engagement not only of the citizens but even of the Hon. Members. So, I just wanted to be sure as a Member of Parliament that we have done justice to the dictates and requirements as per the Constitution in terms of making sure that our law making is sufficiently clothed and couched in manners so prescribed in the Constitution.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: So, may be the Hon. Chairperson can
help us whether he had received some written submissions.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me just read what the provision states. It says here in section – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, let me read what the provision says. It says here, “Immediately after the Speaker has given notice of a Constitutional Bill, in terms of subsection 3, Parliament must invite members of the public to express their views on the proposed Bill in public meetings and through written submissions and must convene meetings and provide facilities to enable the public to do so.”
What I said is the Speaker refered the Bill to the relevant Committee and before he had even presented, the Hon. Member is querying the process. The Speaker referred the Bill to the relevant Committee to comply with the provisions of this particular section. We have not presented for him to question whether what he is saying was not included or not. So, I think he has jumped the gun, he should just wait for Tuesday and his answers will be – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, to my
understanding, the Hon. Member was seeking for clarification [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.] – whether that process is being done, so I give it back to you whether you are still receiving those submissions; there is nothing wrong about that.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, I think when Hon. Gonese
stood up to explain, he said we have a report that we need to deliberate on and we will come and present. I am saying he has jumped the gun; we are in the process of doing that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is okay Hon. Member.
What I wanted to hear from you is whether you are receiving the written submissions or not. If you are doing that, then I know you will bring it in the House, there is no problem Hon. Chamisa.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: In fact, I want to apologise to Hon.
Ziyambi.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you were addressing me.
It is me who asked Hon. Ziyambi.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Do you know why I am apologizing
Hon. Deputy Speaker - it is because...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am Speaker when I am in
this Chair.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: The reason why I am apologizing is
because I do not understand the sense of anger from Hon. Ziyambi.
Perhaps I have wronged him.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is what I have corrected
Hon. Chamisa.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you if you have corrected it. All
we wanted to hear is whether yes or no that process...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think I have explained that
process.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: But the response has not been given.
So, I am sure that – [HON. MEMBERS: inaudible interjections.] – Sorry if you may allow me Hon. Speaker, the response is not supposed to be given by the Chairperson. It is supposed to be given by
Parliament, either yourself or at the very least by the Clerk because you stand in a better position to give a response in equanimity with the calmness that is required. There is no need for us to fight over a very simple issue.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member.
The Clerk was advising me that they sent the request for the public submissions in written form and it is being done but I know it goes straight to the Chair. There is no problem, everything is under control [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Can we please proceed, Hon. Ziyambi.
CONSIDERATION STAGE:
ESTATES ADMINISTRATORS AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 8A,
2016]
First Order read: Estates Administrators Amendment Bill [H.B.
8A, 2016], as amended.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, my apologies both to Madam
Speaker and to the House. My speech has not arrived; I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2017.
SECOND READING:
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B. 2, 2017]
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill.
Question again proposed.
HON. ZIYAMBI: On 10th February 2017, the Government of
Zimbabwe gazetted the National Peace and Reconciliation Bill [H.B.2,
2017.] to put the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC) into operation and related matters. This Bill is the successor to the National Peace and Reconciliation Bill [H.B 13, 2015] (the old
Bill) which was gazetted on 18th December 2015 and withdrawn from Parliament in May 2016 following an adverse opinion on the Bill by the Parliamentary Legal Committee as well as members of the public during the Public Hearings held from 10 to 18 April 2016.
2.0 Methodology
The Justice Committee and thematic Committees of Human Rights and of Peace and Security conducted joint public hearings in all of the country’s provinces, and gathered views and opinions on the Bill. Hearings were conducted in all provinces of the country by two separate teams, Team A and Team B.
Team A held public hearing meetings in the following provinces:
Matebeleland North (Victoria Falls; Chinotimba Hall, 13 March 2017);
Bulawayo (Bulawayo Large City Hall, 14 March 2017); Matebelenad
South (Plumtree, Plumtree Town Council Hall, 15 March 2017); Midlands Province (Gweru Civic Center Hall, 16 March 2017).
Team B conducted its public hearings in the following provinces:
Masvingo (Masvingo, Civic Centre Hall, 13 March 2017); Manicaland
(Mutare, Civic Centre Hall, 14 March, 2017); Mashonaland East
(Marondera, Mbuya Nehanda, 15 March 2017); and Mashonaland Central (Bindura, Tendai Hall, 16 March 2017). The two teams held joint public hearing in Mashonaland West (Chinhoyi, Cooksey Hall,
17 March 2017); and Harare (New Ambassador Hotel, 18 March 2017).
2.1 Attendance figures at Public Hearings
During the public hearing, many organisations and individuals made their submissions and contributions. The following statistics reflects the level of participation. At Chinotimba Hall,18 participants attended and 7 contributions were made; Bulawayo Large City Hall, 111 attended and the Committee received 38 contributions; and Plumtree Town Council Hall, 46 participants attended, 29 submissions were made; Gweru Civic Centre, 134 participants turned up and there were 36 contributions made; Masvingo Civic Centre, 42 participants attended, 21 submissions were received; Mutare Civic Centre Hall, 123 participants attended and 26 contributions were received; Marondera, Mbuya Nehanda Hall 156 participants attended, 34 contributions were received; and in Chinhoyi Cooksey Hall, 264 participants came and 11 contributions were made before the meeting was closed prematurely; at New Ambassador Hotel in Harare, 156 participants came and 31 contributions were received. Thus, for Team A and Team B, 10 meetings were held, 1050 participants attended, 607 were males, and
443 were females, and a total of 207 contributions were made.
Organisations that made their submissions include the following:
The National Transitional Justice Working Group Zimbabwe
(NTJWG); Catholic Commission for Justice and Peace in Zimbabwe
(CCPJ); Zimbabwe Human Rights Associations (ZHRAs); Post-
Independence Survivors' Trust (PIST); Centre for Public Engagement;
The Ecumenical Church Leaders Forum (ECLF); and The Zimbabwe Christian Alliance (ZCA).
3.0 Submissions by members of the Public
3.1 Clause 1 – The Long title
Members expressed that the purpose of a short title is to give a short descriptive summary of the subject matter of the Act. Hence, it was felt that the current title is weak and does not embrace the full purpose of the proposed law. It was the view that the purpose of the NPRC Bill and what it intends to achieve has to be stated clearly in the Long title.
3.2 Clause 2: Interpretation
The interpretation section was viewed as being shallow and not aiding in the interpretation of words used in the Bill. For instance, members of the public cited the definition of ‘dispute’ that was equated to ‘conflict’ which was then defined to mean any dispute or conflict of a kind within the scope of the Commission’s constitutional mandate, which Constitution however does not provide a definition of a conflict. Stakeholders also noted that major terms used in a conflict situation are not defined in this Bill.
3.3 Clause 3: Powers, Procedures and Functions of
Commission
Stakeholders raised concerns on the failure by the Bill to clearly categorise, list and define the functions of the Commission, its powers, procedures for handling complaints up to the stage of acquittal or conviction and conditions under which one is granted amnesty. It was a strong view that the functions of the Commission are not corresponding with the powers of the Commission.
3.4 Clause 4: Independence of the Commission
Stakeholders expressed concerns about the extent of the independence of the Commission in circumstances where the Minister of National Security is allowed to lodge a certificate to the effect that the disclosure of any evidence or document or class of evidence or documentation is, in his or her opinion, contrary to the public interest. Some concerns were also raised on the role of the Minister in the setting up of the secretariat arguing that this was some form of interference with the functions of the commission eroding its independence.
3.5 Clause 5: Seal of the Commission
No issues.
3.6 Clause 6: Offices and operations of Commission
A strong view was expressed that there is need for a clause sanctioning decentralisation by setting up offices even in very remote areas to ensure equal access to justice by all.
3.7 Clause 7: Removal of Members from Office
No issues.
3.8 Clause 8: Investigative Functions of Commission
Stakeholders took issue with Clause 8 (1) and submitted that it is vague, embarrassing and non-specific in that it does not define the nature of the dispute or conflict or of the action or the omission or what it means by authority and/or person. The public indicated that the nature of the dispute or issues to be investigated by the Commission must be described with sufficient detail so that the functions of the commission are transparent and clear to all. It was also submitted that its functions must be clearly demarcated from that of the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission.
Concerns were also raised regarding Clause 8 (3) which acknowledges the due court processes under civil proceedings but negates to do the same for criminal proceedings which implies that the
Commission can proceed to investigate matters before criminal courts. The argument raised by stakeholders is that transitional justice systems are put in place where the judicial system is inadequate and/or unable. Subjecting the same person to two parallel systems is against established legal practice especially in criminal matters.
3.9 Clause 9: Manner of conducting investigations
3.5.1 There was general discontent with this clause which affords perpetrators of violence, dispute or conflict, 14 working days to respond to the allegations raised in writing to the Commission. This period was viewed to be too long, thereby providing suspects with an opportunity to destroy evidence, abscond or intimidate witnesses since they will not be in custody or detention.
Clause 9 (4) of the new Bill regarding legal representation for people appearing before the Commission at their expense, is a condition that was viewed as prone to manipulation and abuse by those with financial resources.
3.5.4 Clause 9 (12)
No issues
3.6 Clause 10: Compellability of witnesses and inadmissibility of incriminating evidence given before
Commission
No issues
3.7 Clause 11: Appearance before Commission
No issues.
3.8 Clause 12: Other Offences
No issues.
3.9 Clause 13: Staff of Commission
No issues.
3.10 Clause 16: Funds of Commission
Concerns were raised on the import of consulting the Minister regarding donations to the Commission. This was viewed as eroding the independence of the commission.
4.0 Committee Findings and Recommendations
4.1 The Committee notes that the Short title of the Bill does not give a descriptive summary of the subject matter of the Bill. The need to have a short title that gives a descriptive summary of the mischief the
law is trying to cure is recommended. The Committee believes the South African Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act 34 of 1995 is very informative in this regard.1
4.2 There is need to have an interpretation section that defines key terms in accordance with internationally accepted standards. In its present format, the Bill does not define a victim, conflict, dispute, amnesty, perpetrator, post-conflict justice, torture and reconciliation among other terms. The interpretation section is too weak and evidently shows poor drafting.
4.3 Powers of the Commission must directly correspond with its
functions.
4.4 It is the Committee’s view that the issuance of a Ministerial certificate in the public interest is universal practice necessary for the preservation of law and order. As such, while some members of the public expressed reservations with this, it is a clause that is necessary for effective governance and maintenance of peace which are key state functions.
4.5 The Committee noted that in the event that the Commission is operationalised, its offices should be decentralised. Having this clause in the Bill, effectively provides a legal instrument to compel the commission to open offices closer to the people.
4.6 It is the Committee’s finding that the Bill as earlier stated does not adequately define its terms and references. There is need to clearly define and list the functions of the Commission vis-a-vis the functions of the ZHRC. Notably also, is the fact that the Commission’s operations are only limited to civil proceedings before the court but by implication, the Bill suggests that the Commission proceed to entertain a matter that is pending and/or ongoing in the criminal matters.
4.7 Regarding the 14 day period afforded suspects to respond in writing by the Commission, it is the Committee’s view that the Constitution in terms of section 70, affords such persons rights to adequately prepare for their defence. As such, the 14 day period is considered to be reasonable and justifiable in a democratic society as ours.
Again in terms of section 69 (4) of the Constitution, it affords anyone the right at their own expense to choose and be represented by a legal practitioner before any court, tribunal or forum. As such, it is the
Committee’s recommendation that this provision be upheld.
4.8 Regarding donations to the Commission, it is the
Committee’s view that any nation would safeguard its independence and sovereignty by ensuring that donations from hostile nations or organisations meant to foment discontent are not allowed.
4.9 As a general observation, it is noted that the Bill is silent on gender and there is a need for a specific gender section. It is recommended that a separate section must be inserted on gender. This section must set up a gender unit or similar mechanism of choice which will do the following:
- Develop specific guidelines and rules on how the
Commission will incorporate gender into its work;
- Develop strategies to encourage the participation of women, girls and other marginalised groups in the work of the Commission; and
- Facilitate gender equity into the structure of the Commission.
5.0 Conclusion
Generally the Bill did not receive wide acceptance from the members of the public. More specifically, the Bill did not deal with legal issues pertaining to previous amnests granted, and the period which the Commission has jurisdiction over. Also, the Bill failed to define salient terms and references, particularly the issues to do with perpetrators and victims. It is silent on the procedures to be used in ascertaining one’s status as a perpetrator and/or victim. At the centre of any healing process are victims. The Constitution states in section 252 that healing is one of the functions of the NPRC. It further talks about providing rehabilitative treatment and support to victims and survivors.
This healing cannot be achieved if victims are left in the margins of the process. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am.
I would like to contribute to this debate on the Bill which was introduced in this august House. At the very outset Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to point out that the Hon. Vice President, who is in charge of peace and reconciliation does not seem to be committed to the issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – To begin with, he is not even here to pilot the Bill itself. He was not even here when the Bill was read a second time. Instead, this was done on his behalf by the Hon. Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
I have looked at the Second Reading Speech, which was presented to this august House and with due respect Madam Speaker Ma’am, this is really very shallow. The purpose of a Second Reading Speech is to outline the principles to indicate the mischief which the Bill intends to cure. Alas! Madam Speaker, this Second Reading Speech, all it does is to regurgitate what is in the Preamble of the Bill. It does not tell us why we need to have this commission, what the motivation is, the history of our country, which led the framers of our Constitution to include this Commission as part of the Independent Commissions supporting democracy.
I therefore wish to submit that it is very disappointing that the Hon. Vice President does not seem to have any interest in the principles and objectives for which the Commission is being established. That is my starting point.
When you look at the Second Reading Speech, all it has done is to give us a summary of the relevant Clauses. It does not speak to the real issues and the real issues are that; sadly in this country we have had a history of conflict and we are looking at the very beginning when this country was colonised, even going back to the time when we had to liberate ourselves. Issues of conflict arose in the liberation of this country, resulting in the policy of reconciliation in 1980. Unfortunately, even after attaining our independence, we have had a sad history of a lot of conflicts. We have the Gukurahundi incidents which happened in Matebeleland and in the Midlands.
Madam Speaker, after every election, we have had issues of violence, particularly in 2000, 2002 and also in June of 2008. Those are some of the issues which we want to address so that we can bring genuine reconciliation amongst the people of this country. This was the motivation that led the framers of the current Constitution to see it necessary to include in the provisions of the Constitution, the need for a Commission to look after or deal with those matters with the objective to ensure that such incidents do not recur. This will ensure that once and for all we can say that in future, going forward we are not going to have another situation where the people of this country are going to be involved in those kinds of disputes or conflicts.
The second issue I would like to raise Madam Speaker Ma’am arises from the fact that the Executive does not seem to be taking this issue very seriously. If you look at the fact that our Constitution was adopted in 2013 and it is now almost four years down the line. We have had a Commission whose members were appointed more than two years ago and yet when the original Bill was brought before this august House, it was blatantly unconstitutional. It was clear to all and sundry that the drafters of the Bill were not taking us seriously. In all the public hearings that we had in this country, that issue was raised about the unconstitutionality of the Bill. What did the Hon. Vice President do?
He simply withdrew the Bill and for more than a year nothing happened. One would have expected that since the issues were very clear and straightforward, what simply needed to be done was to cure the mischief that had led to the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC), among others, to issue an Adverse Report which had also led to members of the public to reject the Bill. One would have expected the Hon. Vice President to have moved with speed to ensure that this Bill came before us as a matter of urgency to enable the Commission to carry out its work.
Be that as it may Madam Speaker, I would actually endeavour to say that the Commission is in fact created by the Constitution. At the end of the day, if one looks at the provisions, I think it is on Section 252, it is clear that because of that establishment by the supreme law of this country there is really nothing that should have prevented the Commission from carrying out its work. Again, it is Section 342, goes further to give the parameters under which some of these Commissions can operate. I am at a loss as to why it has taken this long for the Hon.
Vice President to have ensured that the Bill is brought to this august House timeously.
Again, Madam Speaker, I want to reiterate the point that the Executive is not taking this issue very seriously. You are aware that the former Chairperson of the Commission, Mr. Cyril Ndebele died some time last year. Up to now, he has not been replaced. The Constitution is very clear, the requirements for that appointment is simply for His
Excellency to consult the Judicial Services Commission as well as the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders, after that consultation to appoint a Chairperson of the Commission. It is clear that this has not been done simply because the Executive does not have any interest in having these issues which are really fundamental and necessary to enable us to move forward and not have another scenario where people can just perpetrate acts of violence with impunity.
The purposes of having transitional justice is to ensure that when those incidence would have occurred, we have a process of reconciliation, a process of justice, a process of healing so that in future you are not going to have a recurrence. It is clear to me that here we have a situation where the Executive does not have any interest in having that to happen.
Having said that, I will now go to the Bill itself. The problems which we had first time have not been fully cured. As I have already pointed out the problems that arose first time around where some of the issues which I have already alluded to - where you had poor drafting and lawyers coming up or crafting provisions which even a kangaroo court presiding officer would have been able to point out that this is clearly in violation of the provisions of the Constitution. That poor drafting, there was an attempt to deal with those issues which were fundamentally unconstitutional but however, we still have some issues of poor drafting.
I will just allude to two particular clauses.
If you look at Clause 10 (1) of the Bill which talks about persons who appear before the Commission, it is clear that any person who is questioned by the Commission in the exercise of its powers shall be compelled to produce an article and it goes on. That same provision is duplicated in Clause 11 which again states “any person who is questioned by the Commission in the exercise of its…” word for word. You just wonder as to whether these people were fast asleep or whatever. This is something which is a cause for concern. That duplication you also see it when you look at the First Schedule. Clause 2 (1) talks about provision of the Constitution and talks about the appointment of members on a renewable basis. This again is duplicated in sub-clause (4). You find that you have those errors of poor drafting.
However, that is not the end of the matter. The other issues have already been pointed by the Chairperson of the Committee. It is really unfortunate that when you have a Bill of this nature, you would really expect it to focus principally on the victims and survivors. When you look at this Bill, it is very sad that no emphasis is placed on those people who are really the critical persons we want to deal with, the people who would have suffered as a result of any acts of violence. It is important that this be rectified when we get to the Committee Stage so that you have clear definitions which are incorporated in the Bill, in particular, when it comes to issues of victims and survivors.
Another issue where sufficient attention and sufficient detail has not been given applies to the issue of gender. It is very clear that when you have conflict situations, the sufferers and major victims of such incidences are usually the women. If you look at most of the crimes which are committed in conflict situations, you look at rape and offences of a sexual nature, they are perpetrated against women. Even when you look at situations where heads of households die and so on, usually it is the women who are left to look after the children when the father has been killed in conflict situations. I would have expected that any serious mover of a Bill of this nature would have given sufficient detail to issues relating to women who usually are the biggest sufferers when it comes to matters of this nature. I would therefore implore- unfortunately he is not here and I am just hoping and praying that he is going to read the Hansard. I know he never comes to Parliament anyway. I am just hoping that his co-pilot, the other Hon. Vice President will indicate to him that he must read the Hansard so that he can take into account the submissions which are going to be made by Members of Parliament and in particular by the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and try to take them on board so that we can have an improvement on this Bill.
Another cause for concern is that here we are talking of an
Independent Commission which is set up in terms of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and the independence of that Commission is paramount. Here we have a situation where there are six references to consultation with the Minister. You wonder what role does the Minister have to play here. The Minister is not part of the Constitution in so far as matters of healing are concerned. As far as I am concerned, if it is the wish of the Executive to have a Minister who is also responsible for the issues relating to healing and so on, the role of that Minister must be subordinate because that role is not enshrined in the Constitution unlike the role of the Commission. I therefore, believe that the requirement that for instance when the Commission is setting up its secretariat, it is obliged to consult not just the Minister of Finance and Economic Development but also the Minister responsible for healing should be set aside. It should be removed and expunged from the Bill. It has no place where you are talking of an Independent Commission. There should be no need for the Minister to be consulted. If he has nothing to do, then he must be assigned other duties and responsibilities which have nothing to do with issues relating to national healing which can be adequately dealt with and covered by the Commission itself which is set up in terms of our Constitution.
Again Madam Speaker, another matter for concern is that, you then have the provision which says ‘in consultation with’. I think it will be preferable to perhaps say ‘after consultation’ if there is any need for a consultation at all which is obviously a weaker provision in so far as the obligation is concerned. In so far as the acceptance of donations and so on, I again believe that, yes, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development in terms of the Bill has to be consulted. I believe that it must be made clear in terms of how the Bill is crafted that the Commission itself is able to get donations from people who are willing assist because it is common cause that this country is broke, that the fiscus is not able to sufficiently fund all the Independent Commissions that are established in terms of the Constitution.
I believe that the Commission is composed of persons of integrity who are selected after a rigorous process. As I have already pointed out, the Chairperson is appointed by His Excellency, the President and the other eight members of the Commission are appointed after adverts are placed in our national newspapers and interviews conducted by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. Obviously, when those interviews are conducted, I believe that the Commissioners who are going to be produced are going to be persons of integrity. We must give wide latitude to accept donations from whoever they feel is going to assist them in the execution of their duties and I believe that they should not be unnecessarily hindered from accepting those donations.
My last point relates to the issue of Ministerial Certificates. I know that at least there has been an improvement that the Commission has got power to decide whether to uphold the issuance of a Ministerial Certificate. I believe that it should be completely expunged from the Bill – in any event public interests are not even defined in the Bill. So, in other words we are giving a blank cheque to the Minister of State Security to interfere in the operations of the Commission. I wish to submit Madam Speaker, that that power to issue a ministerial certificate should be removed altogether, we do not need it.
If you look at the hearings envisaged in terms of the provisions of the commission, I believe that we are coming up with a scenario where we are having proceedings of too much of a formal nature. I believe that when you are dealing with issues of mediation, issues of trying to bring about national healing, we need to have a process which is as informal
as possible. If you look at what happened in Rwanda where they had their local courts called Gacaca courts and I believe that this is something which we must be envisaging, a scenario where you do not have formal hearings taking place so that the provisions in the Bill make it clear that what we are having is a situation where we are going to have issues of negotiation, mediation which are done in as informal a manner as possible which will allow members of the public, people who have been victimized to come forward without fear so that they can say what they have gone through. Hopefully, the commission will then be able to make the appropriate recommendations. It is for these reasons that I believe that the concept is good but what it entails is for us to have a full commitment which unfortunately and which very sadly is lacking on the part of the Executive. I would like to implore the Executive to at least take into account the spirit of the Constitution which led to the establishment of the Commission. Thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Madam Speaker. Let me start by saying, I am hoping that as we get into this debate we can be as frank and perhaps as brutally frank as we can. If we do not, we will not be able to get to the bottom of what this is all about.
I want to join my colleagues and chairperson in saying the general view that we got was not that people did not want the Bill; the general thing that we got was that people wanted the Bill but they wanted a Bill that made sense and this particular Bill was not making sense both in the way it was drafted and the manner in which the contents and the issues therein where expressed.
Before I get into why I am saying so Madam Speaker, let me just say to you that the anger that we faced when we went for this public hearing is amazing. It is unfortunate that we are unable to bring the audio tapes or the electronic taps…
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order! Madam Speaker, this
debate is very serious, I saw Members of Parliament from the other side, especially women, going out, what for, I do not know. The Masvingo election is done. So, what are they going to talk about - I do not know
[Laughter.]-
THE TEMPORARAY SPEAKER (MS. DZIVA): I think there
is no point of order.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madam Speaker, I was
speaking to the anger that we found and to some extent, just this last comment by the colleague is relevant because I think if the people that we met actually had a way of sitting and watching the way we are debating this, they would be very disappointed. For many of them, it speaks of their lived realities, their day to day lived realities. It is unfortunate that as a nation we have gotten to a point where issues of conflict, healing, issues that should be bringing us together, we do not care much about them, we are so used to just living life as life without necessarily understanding where people are coming from.
Madam Speaker, for me the debate and the public hearing showed me a divided nation, an extremely dived nation - divided in a number of ways. Firstly, divided in the appreciation and understanding of the issues that happened in the pre-colonial era, divided in the issues about what happened in the post colonial era and divided around the issues that happened just after independence and what is currently happening today. I think that is the unfortunate part about this particular Bill, whoever is drafting the Bill has just thought it is mechanical, business as usual without dealing with what exactly we want to address and you are not finding what exactly we want to address. Are we trying to do a truth and reconciliation commission, we are trying to just create a certain institution that is going to be dealing with issues generally about healing. So unlike my other colleagues, I actually think the disappointment is in that after the first time where we took this particular Bill for people to speak, those issues have not been brought in because the basic thing that people said is that do not give us something that is not talking about truth. Our concern is somebody who comes back and said this is the truth about what happened during Gukurahundi, this is the truth about what happened during the liberation struggle.
The unfortunate thing that has happened with this Bill is that the moment people hear about National Peace and Reconciliation, the first thing that comes to their mind is Gukurahundi. Unfortunately it stops you from thinking. If you go step by step, you should be saying to yourself why is it today we are still talking about war veterans not getting anything and not being supported. It is because we never dealt with the issue around reconciliation, we would have said, what is it that we are going to do about those that participated in the struggle and the pains that they experienced during the liberation struggle - nothing like that happened, so we have not debated that, we have not debated what happened immediately after independence. I am prepared Madam Speaker because these are some of the very uncomfortable conversation that we started facing. I remember and I hope some of my colleagues who were at the hearing also remember this, a very young woman standing up in Bulawayo, saying this war between amaShona lamaNdebele can only be described in this manner yikulwa kukaSatan loJehovah – it can never finish. This is a young person who was not there during the Gukurahundi era but the pain is about what she is dealing with in terms of the marginalisation that she lives with on a daily basis.
So, until you address the problems and issues that people are facing, you will not deal with this. To play around and pretend that you have a national peace and reconciliation when you are not dealing with the issues of transitional justice which are issues of who has gotten land, jobs and resources in this country, it is why you could clearly separate the issues that were being raised in Matabeleland and Mashonaland regions.
For example, I remember when we went to Mashonaland West and somebody in the group was standing up and saying, ‘Stop talking about Gukurahundi, after all the maNdebele people took inkomo zethu and our wives.’ At a very basic level, it is a very upsetting statement for some of us but it is a real statement. I am saying if that is the reason why the people of Matabeleland today continue to suffer marginalisation because there were cattle and women that were taken – then let us talk about it. And if there is supposed to be reparation of the cattle coming back to Mashonaland, let those cattle come back then we can go back to the issues that we are talking about. I do not know what we are going to do with the women that were supposedly taken. We cannot have them and take them back.
In reality, we cannot pretend that certain things are being said and we ignore them. If it is a general feeling that somebody thinks it is justified to continue to oppress and subject a particular tribe on the basis that you believe that there were cattle and women that were taken away
– then let us deal with it. Unfortunately, this Bill does not deal with that. So, it is a useless Bill as far as we are concerned because that Bill is supposed to be talking about why when you go into Matabeleland you necessarily find people who are angry? They are angry because of certain things that are being done systematically.
Madam Speaker, if you look at Section 18 of our Constitution, as we drafted that Constitution, we put in a provision around equality of regions because there was an understanding and appreciation that the issue around inequality was important. Inequality comes from the fact that historically, people believe and live through the realities that they are not being treated fairly. If you go to an interpretation stage and do not find a definition of why there is a need for reconciliation, then we are talking nonsense.
I have said in this House, and I am glad the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa is here - when I raised the issue around the reburials of people who were killed during the Gukurahundi era, the Vice President, at that stage said to the House, we will facilitate for those that want to do the burials. As I speak to you right now, if anybody is trying to have a memorial service, not a reburial – to basically just get people in a community to talk about what happened and how they think, they are arrested and stopped from having those conversations taking place yet those people watch day in and day out here in Mashonaland, people sitting down and saying we are doing reburials. How do you think those people feel?
For me, these are the issues that we are supposed to deal with. If we pretend that there are no ethnic issues, we are joking and not being serious. When we are here, let us not talk about Matabeleland and
Mashonaland – let us talk about here in Mashonaland. The Zezuru and
Karanga divide – completely there and we live with it in this very
House. We have those major differences about whether you are Karanga or Zezuru and who is in control of what resources at this particular point in time and what it means. Let us not pretend that those are not realities that we are talking about. If we do not include the issues around ethnic conversations and how we are going to deal with it, day in and day out, we are going to be dealing with them. We are going to be saying to ourselves, ‘MaZezuru ambotongawo, tavekuda kuti maKaranga ambotonga.’ That is the debate that is there and if we continue to pretend that the debate is not there, we are lying to each other.
I think it is important that in terms of a way forward, we do not play around with this if we really intend to do a proper truth and reconciliation process. Let us go back and look at what happened in
Rwanda, like Hon. Gonese was saying. They said to themselves, ‘We are going to do a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) and it will mean that truth is about dealing with the things that we are unhappy and uncomfortable about. We will have to deal with issues of will there be arrests or amnesty? We cannot have situations were amnesty is given; part of the problems that we have right now is, if we go to post 2000, there are people who murdered people during the general elections, arrested, convicted yet they were given an amnesty. Every other day, when you declare some of them heroes, people are upset. They are hurt because they know that these people have a particular history that they have had before.
Trust me, people may get away with it now in the current context but the generations that are going to be coming tomorrow and in the future – this thing will come back. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- The children of those who were murdered will also come back to murder because you are not going to be in power in perpetuity. There will be a time that you will be out of power and when you are out of power, that person who comes in and is in control is going to come back and deal with you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- We need to be able to understand and appreciate that particular aspect.
Madam Speaker, as a Committee, which is one of the things that was missing in our report, had an opportunity to visit South Africa and Kenya and do an analysis around what happened. In both areas, we found that whilst South Africa had done a good job around truth and reconciliation, they had not dealt with some of the fundamental issues around transitional justice which is why in South Africa today they are beginning to have serious divisions and contradictions around policy issues, issues of land and the redistribution of land and resources … -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections. ]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members,
may Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga be heard in silence. I think those who wish to engage in private conversations can do so outside the House.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I am just giving you an
example of South Africa that whilst South Africa dealt with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, one of the lessons that we learnt from there is that it was too limited because it just dealt with the things that had happened during the apartheid era. It did not deal with the fundamental issues around transitional justice, resource allocation - who is getting what and if something does not happen well, there is going to be a disaster in South Africa. I think we should learn from that particular aspect and not allow things to continue to fester and hope that they will go away. They will not go away Madam Speaker, as at one stage those things will come back to bite us.
We went to Kenya, for example, Kenya did the same. They had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) but they failed to organise it in a way that they would then say we have done a TRC but how are we going to implement the issues that are coming out of the TRC and up till now, they are grappling with those issues. So in Kenya, things may seem to be working well but the issues around ethnic problems are still there. The fortunate thing about some of these countries is an acknowledgement that they have a problem. The sad thing about Zimbabwe is the denialism that we have, a pretence that we have no problems. So you will have somebody sitting here and saying, but in our country we have not had conflict; in our country we do not have ethnic problems yet we know that if we are organising our factions, we are doing so on the basis of ethnicity. Why are we pretending that it is not a problem that we are having? Let us deal with it and deal with it once and for all.
I gave an example, which is on my favourite subject, around the issues of war veterans and gender. Madam Speaker, when I went back to look at, for example, those who were at the Lancaster House
Constitution, I found out that there was a woman called Kadungure. She was the only woman who was there and it was noted. I do not know whether that woman is there right now and I do not know whether she died. I do not know what her circumstances were but I am giving that example in that it is clear because we never had a conversation about what happened during the liberation struggle that perhaps those that really participated, worked and suffered are the ones that are not being acknowledged today.
It is because we never really did a truth and reconciliation process. I am saying what we noticed during the hearings is that we have a bigger problem than what we are talking about here. We have an angry society and in fact, most of us were being abused. They said, you are wasting money and they were right - you came here last year and you said to us let us talk about this Bill; now you are coming back again with this Bill and for us it has not changed anything fundamentally in terms of what we have done.
So, if we do not want to have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, let us just come back here and be honest that we do not want to have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. We will have it when every one of us who are leaders today and who are governing have gone and we forget about it. Let us not pretend that we want to have a
National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.
In conclusion Madam Speaker, let me give you this warning. We are going to have a huge uprising in this country and that uprising is going to come from the generality of the people who are not beneficiaries of the assets that people are using every other day. We will have people in the streets burning homes and burning everything else because the language of speaking will not have worked. We are going to have an uprising in the area around issues of ethnicity. We will pretend to talk about it right now but I can tell you as somebody who comes from that region that one day you will have a situation where people will stand up and they will say anyone who is not coming from here, we will hack to death and we will beat up.
You will not have an excuse for it because they keep giving you warnings and warnings and you are refusing to deal with issues that they are raising. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Madam Speaker – [AN. HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): I have
discretion as the Speaker in Chair right and now so, I recognise Hon.
Chasi.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MAJOME: My point of order is, I had been recognised by the previous Speaker. While I do venerate the authority that you wield in that Chair, from a privilege point of view, I had been recognised by the previous Speaker. I have no doubt about your authority Madam Speaker but what happens is that the procedure where a member has been recognised to speak next; not that it is actually in the Hansard, does that not matter at all? What then happens to my turn to speak because I had been recognised that I would speak after Hon.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I understand
where you are coming from. It is a matter of discretion and at this stage, I am the one in the Chair and I have recognised Hon. Chasi. I will give you a chance after that.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Your point of order Hon.
Mliswa must be supported by the Standing Rules and Orders. So, in accordance to what Standing Order are you raising your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: No, in fact my point of order is; what you are saying too, must be supported by Standing Rules and Orders. You talked about discretion, where in the Standing Rules and Orders does it say that you use your discretion to overrule somebody? We are a House of rules, the rules apply to you and to us. Where in the Standing Rules and Orders does it say that the Chair can use discretion because we are a House of rules. Which Standing Order are you using in terms of that discretion you are talking about?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Chair’s ruling is final.
HON. MLISWA: But the other Chair had ruled.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am the Speaker.
HON. MLISWA: It is on record in the Hansard because she said that Hon. Majome and me.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, you are out of
order, I am the Speaker right now and I make decisions – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not representing anyone, I am the Speaker right now and I have made a ruling.
HON. CHASI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am just waiting to have your attention Madam Speaker. This is a very important Bill and I have great difficulty in supporting it from any angle whatsoever and from a technical drafting point of view, it is a disaster. I have great respect for the Attorney General’s Office. I have worked with them, they are a very hard working office; they are technically sound but with respect to thisb Bill, they have failed us. I think those that have spoken before me have spoken in connection with section 1, the interpretation section. Even members of the public, when we went round for the public hearings, were able to see that there was no interpretation section. I think it had two words that were meant to constitute an interpretation section. There was no interpretation section in that Bill.
If you look at the level of interest in the Bill, those that have spoken about the level of interest have spoken very well and have indicated that there does not appear to be interest; any level of meaningful interest in this Bill by those that are meant to be piloting it at all. The period intervening between the first time the Bill came to Parliament and this time around does not reflect the necessary level of interest. The content itself does not reflect the seriousness that the public I think take of the content and the nature of the material that we are talking about. So, I think the level of anger that we witnessed when we went around the country, is pertinent to mention. Going around the country, it was very clear that the public viewed us with a great deal of suspicion that we were playing with their time and that we were complicity in the delays, that we were not serious as Parliament in terms of what is...
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker, in terms of
Standing Order No. 56 – [Laughter.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order in the House, I have not
yet recognised you.
HON. MLISWA: Rule 56 talks of the quorum of the House; the quorum of the House is not enough for us to continue. As such, I am bringing this in terms of Standing Order Rule 56. I thank you. We are not enough – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: According to the point of
order raised by Hon. Mliswa, I will allow Parliament to take necessary procedures so as to make sure that the House had a quorum. If it does not, we will adjourn the House. I will allow them to ring the bells for seven minutes.
Bells rung.
Quorum formed.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chasi, you may continue
with your debate.
HON. CHASI: Madam Speaker, I really do not want to repeat. Most of the points have been raised by those that have spoken before me. The points relating to the ministerial certificates are pertinent and I do not want to repeat them. I just want to say overally, it is not a supported Bill. It is not clear in terms of timelines, its import and it is not clear as to when it is meant to commence. I agree with what most of the Speakers before me have mentioned. I want to repeat that I have difficulty in supporting it. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker for according me
this opportunity to speak. I do not take your indulgence lightly and I thank you. I want to also lend my voice to support what was said by our
Hon. Chairperson and my colleagues from the Portfolio Committee.
Hon. Madam Speaker, in debating this particular Bill...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can Hon.
Majome be heard in silence. You will be given a chance to debate if you like the issue.
HON. MAJOME: In debating this particular Bill, I wish to possibly begin on a point of privilege. With the absence of the Hon. Minister, I would like to inquire if there are any officials who work in the office of His Excellency, the President and Cabinet and particularly Hon. Mphoko’s Ministry because they do not appear to be here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will allow them to give me
some feedback but from what I can see, I do not see anyone on the back.
HON. MAJOME: So with that Hon. Madam Speaker, I will beg
for your assistance. This is because it is a point of privilege, as was raised by Hon. Gonese. The Hon. Minister who sponsored the Bill is not here, who is the Vice President and there is not a single official from their Ministry to debate this. The question is how often do Bills from the organ on Healing and Reconciliation come to this Parliament, the point is that this is very rare. So Madam Speaker, I would wish it put on record and hope that Hon. Members of Parliament take very strong exception to the attitude of the Executive in not valuing the processes of this Parliament.
As we are now, Hon. Members where we are debating, we raise certain issues in connection with the attitude of the Office of the Hon. Minister regarding issues of healing and reconciliation and also the attitude of the Hon. Minister with respect to him about his attitude and understanding of what an Independent Commission should or should not do. That attitude will be critical in the success of this Commission in its operations. If the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission is going to enjoy its independence as envisaged and indeed as demanded by the Constitution...
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of privilege. From the
Standing Rules and Orders, we are given the powers as individual Members of Parliament. If there is a point we feel impinges or encroaches our right to privilege in this House, this issue has already been indicated by Hon. Chasi, the Chair, Hon. Ziyambi and Hon.
Mliswa. I do not think it is sufficient to say we will have the Minister reading the Hansard. Yes, he can read the Hansard but he will not be able to understand and read the body language and the emotions of Hon. Members. This is a serious national debate. It can only be a debate by all of us.
We know that the Vice President is busy but inasmuch as he is busy, the Minister of State could also come in. –[inaudible interjections.]- We are saying perhaps he is busy but Hon. Speaker, you know that it is good practice that when we are debating such important Bills, we always have technical officials. I can see that there is none. The seats are vacant and it tells you one thing. It is either there is no seriousness by individuals who have been entrusted by Government to deal with this Bill because we cannot allow a situation whereby serious debates are undertaken in Parliament about serious national issues in the absence of those serious national offices.
So, Hon. Speaker, it is my plea that we either summon as
Parliament, because we cannot just be speaking to ourselves. We do not want echoes that are going to the caves, mountains and walls. We want echoes that are going to the corridors of power so that when we speak truth to power, power gives power to truth. As it is, we are just speaking truth to power but there is no power to listen to our truth. So, what are we doing? We are not expecting you Hon. Speaker to burden yourself under these circumstances but let us have the relevant authority.
The Vice President should be here so that we are able to give justice and good effect to the spirit in the Constitution. This is a very important Commission and we would want the Minster or the Vice President to be here. This is a plea that I am making and I know that the plea has the majority support of all progressive Members of Parliament.
This is not a partisan call, it is a patriotic call. This is not an MDC or a ZANU PF issue, it is a Zimbabwean issue.
The issues that are being raised, Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga raised issues that are very touching and these issues require that we have the hearts of the rulers of the land. If we do not turn the hearts of the rulers of the land, we may not be able to turn the hearts that are crying and wipe off the tears on the chicks of many Zimbabweans who are literaly crying for justice. So, Hon. Speaker, I seek your indulgence and the indulgence of this Committee that on this one, let us summon, or may be summoning is too strong a word, but let us kindly request the Hon. Vice President to be present or to avail himself for this important debate – and the Minister of State to be here so that we are able to engage them on this progressive national discourse. Hon. Speaker, I so state and place on the table. Thank you very much.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): I wish to
respond before you can raise your point of order. I note with great concern the matter of privilege that has been raised by Hon. Majome and Hon. Chamisa. I think it is important for Hon. Ministers to be responsible when they are carrying out their duties. However, I have been advised by Parliament that the Vice President had made an apology. He has gone to Bulawayo on national duty, so they asked if it could be debated and through the Hansard they will respond after tomorrow – [HON. MEMBERS: No, no.] – I think if we agree, we can adjourn this debate to tomorrow when he comes back and Hon.
Members can debate in his presence [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.] –
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, just to say this; we are constantly accused of not being efficient as Members of Parliament. You in the Chair have always told us you have written to His Excellency over the conduct of the Ministers. Up to now you have not told us what His Excellency has said. We continue doing this everyday and it becomes a game. Next time can we get a response from you pertaining to the letter that the Speaker wrote to the President pertaining to the conduct of the Ministers who are not here?
Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa, if I am not mistaken is the Acting President and I respect his conduct to duty. He is so disciplined to it. why can the other Hon. Vice President not do the same? He equally has a Minister in his office who is Hon. Tabeth Malinga Kanengoni. To me, if Hon. Mnangagwa is not here, we see Hon. Sibanda presenting issues, why can he not learn from Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa on the way he conducts his duty, maybe he can learn. I think he needs to go for some schooling from the Presidium pertaining to his conduct as Hon. Vice President. If he is not available, his responsible Minister must be able to represent him.
According to the Section 107 (2) of the Constitution, “Every Vice President, Minister and Deputy Minister must attend Parliament and parliamentary committees in order to answer questions concerning matters for which he or she is collectively or individually responsible.”
So, the responsible Ministers are not here. In support of Hon. Chamisa’s submission, who are we debating to, who are we talking to? Thank you
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I have to
respond to the point of order raised by Hon. Mliswa. Hon. Mliswa, I think I gave a ruling on the matter. The Office of the Vice President and the Ministry of National Healing, Peace and Reconciliation had communicated with Parliament that they had another engagement in Bulawayo, they are absent. We have heard it and we have had a ruling and we are going to debate this issue when the Vice President is present.
However, I had recognised Hon. Majome to debate on the issue, so I will allow Hon. Majome to finish her debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – if she is comfortable – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Madam Speaker as I raise the point of privilege, I would want either the Hon. Minister as well as the State Official and at the very least, the officials from the Ministry to be here because I do not want to talk to myself. However, I have a point of order Madam Speaker. Do I have your assurance that when they come, I will have an opportunity to proceed with my debate? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Members, I think the ruling has already been made and we have agreed that the debate can be adjourned.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Hon. Mliswa having been speaking at the top of his voice.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, we are still in the House.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2017.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON.
MUKWANGWARIWA, the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes past
Four o’clock pm.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 4th May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that I have received Non-Adverse Reports on the following, notice of amendments to Bills, Statutory Instruments and General Notices:-
- i) Estates Administrators Amendment Bill (H. B. 8A, 2016]; ii) Movable Property Security Interests Bill [H. B. 7A, 2016]; iii) Judicial Laws Amendment Bill (Ease of Settling Commercial and Other Disputes) [H. B. 4A, 2016]; iv) Deeds Registries Amendment Bill [H. B. 3A, 2016];
- v) Statutory Instruments 33, 34, 35, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46 and 47 gazetted during the month of March 2017; and vi) General Notices, 133, 134 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141,
142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160 and 161 gazetted during the month of March 2017.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
BILL [H.B. 2, 2017]
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIOAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE) on behalf of THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON.
MPHOKO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move this Bill standing in for the Vice President.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the purpose of the National Peace and
Reconciliation Commission (NPRC) Bill, 2017 is to provide for the operationalisation, composition and functions of the NPRC in fulfillment of Chapter 12 Part 6 (Sections 251-253) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which established the NPRC. The Bill also seeks to confer additional jurisdiction on the Commission, including the investigating powers, provision of the terms of office, conditions of service, qualifications and vacation of office by Members of the NPRC, the appointment of the Executive Secretary and to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing. The NPRC Bill, 2017 shall come into operation when the President assents to the Bill. The NPRC shall be a full time Commission.
Clause 1: Short Title of the Bill
The clause provides for the short title of the Bill which is the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.
Clause 2: Interpretation
The clause provides for the definitions of words in the Bill. To this end, words like Commission, seal, Executive Secretary, Minister, are defined for ease of reference.
Clause 3: Procedure, Powers and Functions of the
Commission
The clause provides for additional functions of the Commission as original functions are established in terms of the Constitution. The clause also seeks to provide for procedures to be followed by Members of the Commission when conducting meetings. It also provides for the manner in which vacancies may be filled. The same clause confers ancillary powers upon the Commission which may help the Commission to discharge its functions in a better way.
Clause 4: Independence of the Commission
The clause reinforces the independence of the Commission established in terms of Section 235 of the Constitution.
Clause 5: Seal of the Commission
The clause empowers the President to, by proclamation, set the seal of the Commission. The seal must be kept in the custody of the
Executive Secretary.
Clause 6: Offices and Operations of the Commission
The clause gives the Commission powers to establish offices throughout the country. The Commission has to establish such offices in consultation with the Minister and the Minister responsible for Finance. The offices established must be accessible to all people including those using public transport and those with disabilities. Where necessary, the Commission may request the cooperation of certain entities like other independent Commissions, local Government structures, civil society organisations and faith based institutions for the Commission to better perform its functions.
Clause 7: Removal of Members from Office
The clause reiterates the procedures to be followed for the removal of Members of the Commission from office as set up in the Constitution.
Clause 8: Investigative Function of the Commission
The clause confers investigative functions upon the Commission. the Commission shall invite any person affected by any dispute or conflict arising out of any action or omission on the part of an authority or person; to, in any one of the officially recognised languages, make an oral written complaint to the Commission requesting it to investigate such action or omission. The Commission has got powers to make the investigations. However, the Commission shall not investigate any matter which is pending before any competent court.
Clause 9: Manner of Conducting Investigations
The clause sets out the investigation procedures for the Commission. In its hearing procedures, the Commission must not be bound by strict rules of evidence. Any person who is called to appear before the Commission to defend the allegations raised against him or her must be afforded fourteen working days to respond in writing. Any person appearing before the Commission is entitled to be represented by a legal practitioner of his or her choice at his or her expense. This clause obliges Members of the Commission and their staff not to disclose information obtained except in special circumstances.
The Minister responsible for National Security may issue a certificate to the effect that certain evidence or documentation must only be disclosed in camera in the best interest of defence, national security, external relations and the like. Any person who is dissatisfied by the decision of the Minister may appeal to the Commission while any appeal against the decision of the Commission lies with the Administrative Court.
Clause 10: Compellability of Witnesses and Inadmissibility of
Incriminating Evidence given before the Commission
The clause provides for the inadmissibility of incriminating evidence. Only the person who may be compelled by the Commission to testify before the Commission will enjoy this privilege.
Clause 11: Appearance before the Commission
The clause compels persons who appear before the Commission to take the oath or make an affirmation before they testify. Any person who appears before the Commission shall be entitled to give evidence in any of the officially recognised languages.
Clause 12: Other Offences
The clause establishes various offences for violating the provisions of this Bill. Such offences are to empower the Commission to discharge its functions better without any form of disturbance.
Clause 13: Staff of the Commission
The clause confers upon the Commission power to make an establishment of its staff.
Clause 14: Appointment and Functions of the Executive
Secretary of the Commission
The clause gives power to the Commission to appoint the
Executive Secretary who must assist the Commission in the discharge of its functions.
Clause 15: Reports of the Commission
Provides for the manner in which various reports may be submitted to Parliament by the Commission through the Minister.
Clause 16: Funds of the Commission
The clause provides for the various sources of the Commission’s funds.
Clause 17: Accounts of the Commission and Appointment of
Internal Auditor
The clause compels the Commission to keep proper books of accounts. The Commission is allowed to appoint an Internal Auditor in terms of this clause.
Clause 18: Audit of Accounts
The clause provides for procedures for auditing of the
Commission’s books of accounts. In terms of this clause, the Auditor General is empowered to audit the accounts of the Commission. Any person who fails to cooperate with the Auditor General shall be guilty of an offence.
Clause 19: Regulations
The clause confers upon the Commission power to make regulations which shall be of no force unless they have been approved by Parliament. I so move Mr. Speaker Sir, that the Bill be read a second time.
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker Sir, the position in relation to this Bill is that the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs conducted public hearings together with the Senate Thematic Committee on Peace and Security. The public hearings have been completed. However, the Committee has not yet sat down to deliberate on the report and come up with a report for presentation to this House to set the tone on the debate by Hon. Members.
It is in this regard that I am moving that the debate be adjourned. The Chairperson of the Committee walked in when the Hon. Minister was making his second reading presentation and I have already discussed with the Hon. Chairperson of the Committee as well as the Hon. Deputy Chief Whip of Government. I therefore request that the debate do now adjourn. I believe that the Hon. Minister has been appraised of this position. I so move.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 9th May, 2017.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
SUSPENSION OF CHITUNGWIZA MUNICIPALITY
COUNCILLORS
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a Ministerial Statement to Parliament on the suspension of Chitungwiza Municipality Councillors.
The Chitungwiza Municipal Councillors have been suspended from office in terms of Section 114 of the urban Councils Act [Chapter
29:15], [as read with the Local Government Laws Amendment Act].
This has been necessitated by the continued high levels of maladministration, non-compliance with laid down procedures and practices and corrupt practices by the Councillors.
Twenty-four of the twenty-five Councillors have been served with letters of suspension, in terms of section 114(2)(b) of the Urban Councils Act. The suspended Councillors have all been afforded the opportunity to defend themselves and were asked to respond to the charges in writing, within seven days. Thereafter, the responses will be studied and suspensions will be uplifted for Councillors who are not guilty of the charges. However, where no sound argument against the allegations is proffered the case/s will be referred to an Independent Tribunal appointed in terms of Section 157A of the Act. The Independent Tribunal will hear the matter in order to establish whether or not the accused Councillors are guilty of gross misconduct or willful violation of the law and give a determination as prescribed in the Fourth Schedule of the Urban Councils Act [Chapter 29:15].
Chitungwiza Municipality has twenty-five Councillors, fourteen from MDC-T and eleven from ZANU-PF. The Municipality has been marred by administrative and political problems for a number of years. The Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing tried a number of interventions aimed at resolving the challenges bedeviling the Council but Chitungwiza Municipality did not listen and chose to continue with its destructive path at the expense of service delivery.
The current problems facing Chitungwiza Municipality are as follows:
- Service delivery is virtually at a standstill with heaps of uncollected garbage, numerous sewer bursts and blackages, little or no water supplies, as debts to Harare City mount up with no payment plan in sight. In addition, there is a complete lack of development control and little or no by-law enforcement.
- There is rampant abuse of Council and Stateland resulting in both Councillors and their officials cashing in on large tracts of land for personal gain. Wetlands and land set aside for a
cemetery have also not been spared as these have been subdivided and sold to unsuspecting home seekers. These pieces of land have not been paid for.
- There is a flagrant disregard for the Management of Stateland Manual in allocation procedures with no referral to the Council waiting list, which is supposed to be the basis for all allocations.
Many stands are disposed of without proper documentation.
- Council is releasing land allocated before the said land is paid for and the same land is then resold at large profits to individuals by Council officials and Councillors.
- Councillors and staff have abused their offices to repossess stands from real beneficiaries.
- There is lack of systems which create a conducive environment for corruption. Even where cases of corruption are exposed, disciplinary action has not been taken.
- The Council has, on several occasions resolved to disregard the urban Councils Act, including utilizing capital funds collected under the Estates account for the payment of wages to the detriment of servicing residential stands.
- Council chooses to defy/ignore circulars and directives issued, resulting in unnecessary expenditure. An example is the recent resolution to increase Councillors unapproved travel allowances for a 24 hour period from the stipulated $95,00 to $300,00.
- The Executive is reluctant to advise Councillors who end up coming up with resolutions that are ultra-vires.
- Checks and balances are not in force since Councillors and officers are conspiring in their illegal activities, thereby prejudicing Council of millions of dollars.
- Communication with rate payers has completely broken down resulting in a continuous stream of persons coming to the Ministry offices to lodge complaints. There is no other Council in Zimbabwe that has faced so many demonstrations, which
have resulted in Council officials hiring security guards to protect them from angry residents.
- The Council is technically bankrupt and efforts to curtail unnecessary expenditure have been ignored. The Council budget submission was turned down twice in 2016 and once in 2017 by the Ministry, in order to make corrections and to ensure compliance.
- The Council has a huge workforce that is not working as there are no resources to equip them. Moreover, the workers have not been paid for the past 14 months.
The Intervention
The above mentioned challenges forced the Ministry to invoke
Section 114 of the Urban Councils Act, [as read with the Local
Government Laws Amendment Act], thereby suspending all twenty-five
Councillors. The disciplinary procedures have been put in place.
To keep the Council running whilst disciplinary procedures are being taken, a Caretaker Council was appointed in terms of Section 80 of the Urban Councils Act.
The following Caretakers have been appointed:-
- M.S Pawadyira, a retired civil servant with vast local government experience and who has served on a number of caretaker councils.
- Z. Chisango, the District Administrator for Chitungwiza, who has been instrumental in reporting maladministration and who is aware of the situation on the ground.
- Cde Joshua Mabiza, a former councilor of Chitungwiza and a local businessman.
The terms of reference for the Caretakers are as follows:
- To reverse all illegal land acquisition mentioned in the two investigations reports and the internal audit report on land
abuse and to institute correctional measures to prevent similar occurrences of land abuse.
- To oversee the taking of disciplinary action against staff implicated in the reports.
- To oversee the putting in place of proper procedures with regards to estate management.
- To put forward options for the provision of services to areas where stands have been sold to home seekers.
- To review all resolutions of Council taken since 2013 and rescind those that is ultra-vires.
- To establish a formal complaints system for use by members of the public and open dialogue with the community.
- To take any other steps necessary for the return to normalcy of Chitungwiza Municipality.
The Ministry has also instructed the Provincial Administrator for
Harare Province and the department of Housing and Social Amenities to assist the Caretakers in undertaking their roles. The Minister of State for
Harare Province is fully informed of the situation. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
INVITATION TO THE LAUNCH OF THE ZIMBABWE
PARLIAMENTARY JOURNALIST FORUM
THE HON. SPEAKER: Before points of clarification are raised,
I have one announcement. This is to inform all Chairpersons of
Portfolio Committees that they are cordially invited to the launch of the Zimbabwe Parliamentary Journalist Forum to be held on Friday 5th May, 2017 at 18:00 hours at the Cresta Oasis Hotel.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just want to applaud the Hon. Minister for trying to address the ills of Chitungwiza Town Council by invoking the statutes and the sections in the Act, 114 in particular that deals with such ills. The second issue Mr. Speaker is also to request that after the Minister takes care of Chitungwiza, after disciplinary processes and all have been done. I invite him to Chegutu Town Council so that we can also make sure that we curtail the collusion, corruption, nepotism and all other shenanigans that bedevil the town council of Chegutu West.
Aware also that I had a meeting about an hour ago with the town council but there does not seem to be any cohesion and knowledge of where we are, where we have come from and where we are going. There is certainly a dearth in terms of progress, prosperity and averting disaster that bedeviled the council in 2009, that of cholera and typhoid. So, I am making a clarion call and a fervent request to the Minister that he expeditiously, effectively comes to Chegutu and address the issues and ills that are bedeviling the town council in the same manner if not worse than he has done with Chitungwiza Town Council. I thank you.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question to the
Minister is whether what is happening at Chitungwiza in terms of … HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I have a point of order Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, point of order.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, you are aware that our
Parliament is modeled around the Westminster tradition. Once the Minister has given his statement, it is incumbent upon the official spokesperson of the opposition to be given the first priority if they wish to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, that is the tradition. Indeed, I can show you where it is.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Can you address the
Chair.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: This is so fundamental Hon. Speaker because what it does is that you are then able to give the due regard to the composition of Parliament. This is not to say that it would stop any other Hon. Member but in terms of sequence and order, we have a tradition that we have in this House which we have followed so ably and eloquently. We have Hon. Cross here who is the opposite number of Hon. Kasukuwere. He has been on his feet Hon. Speaker. I see that it is important for others to also contribute. If there is no attempt to then give an official statement from the opposition, you are at liberty to chose whoever is there. Hon. Speaker I kindly ask you. What makes our democracy interesting is for us to know that we have an official opposition in the Republic of Zimbabwe which is ably represented in this House. Thank you very much.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Advocate Chamisa, you are perfectly correct. Unfortunately, in the absence of Hon. Khupe, I could not recognise the Leader of the Opposition - which is the normal practice. I was not advised that in her absence, the Acting Leader of the Opposition is – [Laughter.] – so in the absence of that advice, I felt not compelled to follow our adopted Westminster approach. In that regard, Hon. Khupe is here but I do not think she was privy to the Ministerial Statement. I am going to ask the Hon. Member I had recognized, and after that I will call upon the de-facto Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Cross to make a statement in response.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My contribution is that with the situation as it is at Chitungwiza, have there been any external audits on all other councils? This is because what is happening right now is across, especially urban councils where the councils have turned the cities and towns into growth points. Has it happened across the country that external audits are done? Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. CROSS: Firstly, I would like to state at the outset that I welcome the Minister’s action today. You will recall that during the previous Parliament, the MDC dismissed the entire council of Chitungwiza for corruption and we only retained one member of our party as a councilor in Chitungwiza on those grounds. Mr. Speaker, the circumstances prevailing in our cities is appalling and no city illustrates this better than Chitungwiza. In fact, in my view the situation in
Chitungwiza is a crisis, similar to the crisis that prevails in Harare –
[HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order please. Hon. Ziyambi, you are not in a gym. Please can you listen to what the Hon. Member is saying.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, the problems of the councils are very deep. They relate not just current condition, they go back to many years. The fact that Chitungwiza does not receive more than 30% of its requirements for water is a fact. It is not the responsibility of Chitungwiza Town Council. It is the problem of Harare City Council that has the obligation of supplying the City of Chitungwiza with water. If Chitungwiza had a separate water system, it could provide for its own water requirements.
In addition Mr. Speaker, Chitungwiza was designed perhaps for 200 000 people. I do not know what the population of Chitungwiza is today and I do not think the Minister does, but I will tell you that it is in excess of the population of Bulawayo. In fact, Chitungwiza is the second largest city in Zimbabwe. The problem with the City Council is that they struggle with totally inadequate resources. I think the income on a monthly basis in Chitungwiza is substantially less than a million dollars. There is no way on earth you can run a city the size of Chitungwiza with those kind of resources. On top of that, you have the chaotic situation with regards to land allocations which prevails, not just in Chitungwiza but throughout the metropolitan area of Harare. I want to tell you that there are more than five hundred thousand homes today in Harare on land which was allocated to them illegally by land barons on a political and patronage basis. The amounts of money which have been accrued by these individuals are staggering. If you take the City of Masvingo for example, there is a ranch to the south of Masvingo,
Victorial Ranch which I used to administer as General Manager of the
CSC. This ranch has been taken over by the State under the Land Reform Programme. It has been allocated to land barons linked to a political party. They have divided this estate into 13 thousand stands which they are selling at $4 000 per stand. That is $56 million and it is in excess of the total budget of Masvingo town.
In fact, in Masvingo town, you only have 11 000 housing stands. This new city to the south of Masvingo, without water, sanitation, title deeds, without any official town plan, any recreational facilities, without schools or clinics, will be bigger than Masvingo. It is totally unacceptable from a town planning point of view. I think that the
Minister has to acknowledge today that the problems in Chitungwiza are just the tip of the iceberg that you can see. In fact, this situation is pervasive throughout Zimbabwe.
I do not think that firing the City Council is the solution. We had a situation in Gweru where the Minister suspended the Gweru City Council and put in a Commission. The Commission awarded themselves contracts – I have the facts related to that. The Commission earned substantially more in allowances than the entire council would have earned during their duration. There was absolutely no improvement in the conditions prevailing in Gweru during their tenure. At the end of this untidy process, we end up reinstating the Gweru City Council and ask them to pick up the pieces and proceed. Even the cases against the Mayor of Gweru and one of the councillors who were finally dismissed from their positions by the Minister, in my view were in fact, pretty flimsy and would not have stood up in a court of law.
The Act which the Minister has acted under is in terms of implementation of the constitutional provisions with regards to dismissal of councillors. It makes it very clear that the conditions under which a councillor can be suspended and dismissed are the same as those which apply to Members of Parliament. You cannot dismiss a councillor or suspend them on the basis of an allegation. You recall Mr. Speaker, when Hon. Kereke was accused of a crime, he sat in this House for many months, participating as a full member of the House despite the fact that he was in court and being charged. It was only after his conviction of a criminal act that he was dismissed from the House.
I do not believe that the procedure that the Minister is following is the right procedure in terms of the national interest. If he is satisfied that there are allegations against councillors then I personally support him with respect to allegations against 13 of the individuals concerned and not the others, including every single one of the ZANU PF councillors who have been involved in land deals. I will support him if he asked the police to investigate those individuals, prosecute them, convict them in a court of law and then proceed against them. To proceed against them in this particular manner, not only denies our democratic rights but it also disrupts the orderly management of the councils concerned. I do not believe that in any way a commission of three people, handpicked by the Minister can in any way improve the administration of the city.
It is vital Mr. Speaker, that we recognise the elected representatives of our people and give them a chance to perform their duties. If they do not do a good job, elections are coming in 2018 and people can decide who should run the City of Chitungwiza. From a national point of view, the problems the Minister has identified are spot on. The way to address them is not to suspend the council, but to tackle the problems with which they are confronted. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for affording me the opportunity to respond to the Ministerial Statement by Hon. Kasukuwere. In your Statement Hon. Kasukuwere, you said you saw a lot of corruption, huwori...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Corruption is huwori, I am sure you know that.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, but there
is colloquial language...
THE HON. SPEAKER: No! No! No!.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: People understand that word in
Shona...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Are you dismissing my order.
Please proceed in Shona.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: May I be given the Speaker’s indulgence in using certain English words as I debate in Shona. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I am saying the history that has been given by the Hon. Minister that he dissolved the entire Chitungwiza Council because of corruption, I am asking him that he explains to this august House what has been happening since 2000 and why all councils have been dissolved and commissions put in place.
I said whenever the councils have been suspended, have the commissions that have been put in place been able to rectify anything –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, if you have something
to say, you will have your chance to say it. Let us give the Member a chance to debate.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: We are now talking about Gweru, I became the Mayor for Harare and was suspended. We were falsely incriminated and we vacated office. All these mayors were removed by the Minister of Local Government. I am saying people need to be represented by these councillors who would have voted them into office and after your removing them from the council, there will be another election and the people will re-elect the same people. It will then appear that there are certain things that you are doing wrongly when you put those commissions in place.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, may you
please address the Chair.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Minister, may you please explain to us what good have these commissions done. Secondly, he mentioned that there are some stands or farms that are being allocated to people and there are a lot of things that have been brought before the Portfolio Committee on Local Government which has tabled reports that the land is not being parceled out by council officials only, but there are land barons that are involved. There are other councillors that will be implicated and it is not all of the 25 that have been implicated. Some of the stands that they have allocated in places such as in Harare South and areas as Chitungwiza, there are certain stands that he is allocating as Minister without plans and on these pieces of land, people erect their houses then they are demolished and there will be a tug-of-war.
Thirdly, there are provincial committees. When are they going to come into effect? He has not even brought the legislation that says the provincial councils will be assisted by Members of Parliament. It is four years down the line when the Constitution was passed and up to now, he has not brought in the legislation to that effect. When is this law going to come into place? There are certain constitutional councils that should have been helped to ensure that the councils perform well. When is he going to bring into place such legislation?
As Government, they have also failed to lose money to run provincial councils and they ask that councils have 30% to pay the workers. After the last election, all the bills were written off and the Government did not pay for those outstanding debts. So, there was a lacuna in payments and resources for city councils – how can these city councils be able to redress this issue? I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I seek
clarification from the Hon. Minister but before I do that, let me congratulate him for a job well done. Hon. Speaker, It is my view that the MDC run councils have failed the nation of this country. I wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister how fast he is going to move to assess what is taking place in other urban councils similar to what has happened in Chitungwiza which the Hon. Minister must deal with competently like he has done in this matter. Thank you.
*HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister, I thank you for the statement that you have given over the suspensions of the councils. You have several allegations yourself – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order please Hon.
Maridadi, I think you are not going to talk about party issues.
*HON. MARIDADI: I have not yet even spoken. No, these are national issues. Chitungwiza Town Council has been suspended on allegations as there are people that go to court, like Hon. Kereke and he was convicted. There are certain allegations that you took land in Pomona and you said $5 million should be paid to Hon. Chiyangwa so that you would sort out his issue on land but you were not suspended as a Minister. You remained as Minister because the President knows the law that you cannot be chased away because of allegations but you are suspending people for selling a few stands whilst you are alleged to have stolen the whole of Pomona. And, you said that Mr. Chiyangwa should give you $5 million which is a lot of money. If we were to engage $5 million into Chitungwiza, you will reinstate the councillors back to
Chitungwiza Council.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please address the Chair.
*HON. MARIDADI: May they please keep quiet because I am debating – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. KASUKUWERE: Madam Speaker, I am sure that we
must debate issues but let us be fair with each other. Just to make allegations Hon. Member is unfair and I think I have given a statement. If there are issues to do with me, you can raise that on a separate occasion. I am talking about Chitungwiza today - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Madam Speaker, I seek the protection of the House. I think the Hon. Member is just being unnecessarily personal.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, I think that
the Minister has a point. We are debating on the corruption of
Chitungwiza Town Council and not personal allegations. Hon.
Members, I think that need to be fair here. Hon. Maridadi, let us be fair.
*HON. MARIDADI: I hear you Hon. Speaker – [HON.
WADYAJENA: Ari kunditukira Minister wangu.]-
HON. MARIDADI: He must stop being excited like an uncircumcised youth - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members,
before you bring up your point of orders, I think I am chairing. I was not going to leave Hon. Maridadi doing that. I think you have to give me the chance. Hon. Maridadi, I think you have to withdraw that statement and proceed with your debate.
HON. MARIDADI: I withdraw that Hon. Wadyajena is not circumcised.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Hon. Maridadi, if you
want to proceed with the debate, I think you have to be honourable enough. Hon. Maridadi, withdraw that statement.
HON. MARIDADI: I withdraw.
HON. WADYAJENA: What are you withdrawing?
HON. MARIDADI: That you are not circumcised.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You want him to repeat the
statement, that is the issue of circumcision.
HON. WADYAJENA: Does he know that I am not circumcised?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are not debating that
issue.
HON. WADYAJENA: He said it.
HON. MARIDADI: His behaviour shows that he is not circumcised.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
Hon. Wadyajena take your seat.
*HON. WADYAJENA: How do you know about this?
*HON. MARIDADI: I was told.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Also, Madam Speaker he is insulting the culture of Nembudziya.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, take your
seat. Hon. Maridadi, proceed with your debate.
*HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, I was just giving an example. Hon. Cross gave an example of Masvingo and cited Hon.
Kereke, that is what I did to the Minister that there are allegations that you demanded US$5 million and you stole the whole of Pomona.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please do not talk about the
Minister’s personal issues. Let us debate the issue of city councils. *HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Speaker, if you ask me not to talk
about the Hon. Minister it is the same as asking me to sing ‘Ishe komborera Africa’ without mentioning the word ‘Ishe’. The Local Government starts with the Minister. Chitungwiza has been suspended by the Minister and I am only saying people should not be suspended on mere allegations. Our Constitution is very clear that once it is alleged that someone has committed an offence, a report is made to the police, the person is arrested and investigations are carried out. Once the person is convicted, then he or she is removed from office but here Minister,
you have put the cart before the horse. You have made yourself the judge, the jury and the executioner. That is not procedural because allegations Hon. Speaker, most of us face allegations. I went to court on allegations, I was tried and I was proved innocent. You did not chase me out of Parliament; I was coming to Parliament and made contributions during debates.
All I am saying is Hon. Minister, as Parliament we come up with the laws and enact such laws. It would appear that you are on the wrong side of the law. I gave him a personal example that he is under allegations of theft but he still holds his position as Minister.
*HON. WADYAJENA: I did not stand to talk about what Hon.
Maridadi said that the Minister faces US$5 million allegations concerning Chiyangwa, but it is because this man is insulting the people of Nembudziya by saying I am not circumcised. How did he become aware of that?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Wadyajena do not compel me to send you out of the House. We are not talking about your issues of circumcision. We are not here to play. We want to do serious business. Why are you taking us back to things that we pass through? You must behave like an honourable Member.
*HON. MARIDADI: In conclusion, I would like to say that the Minister should look into that issue seriously. I do not condone corruption and those that are convicted of corruption should be dismissed. I support you in that regard but my plea is that due process should be taken, be they councilors or Members of Parliament who belong to ZANU PF or MDC, they should have proven allegations. As the MDC, you are aware that Hon. Cross once said that, in the last Parliament we suspended Chitungwiza councilors on corruption allegations but due process was followed. Even when you are found guilty of wanting to topple the President, after you are proven guilty you will be dismissed. I thank you.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Firstly, we
do not accept that our country should be plundered because of corruption. The statement brought by the Hon. Minister is acceptable.
The clarity that I seek from Minister Kasukuwere is that all of us are listening to the Hon. Minister because he was appointed by the His Excellency, the President, regardless of the fact that there have been banners that were lifted by people inscribed ‘you are a thug’
My question is if you look at councils, they owe workers salary arrears ranging from 6 to 14 months across the country. Looking at the revenue raised by the councils, it is inadequate for them to pay backlog in salaries. Council employees are suffering; some have not received their salaries for the past eight months to two years. In the case of
Chitungwiza some of the workers have not been paid for 14 months.
The manner in which councils are being operated; Chitungwiza Town Council cannot raise this amount, therefore Government should come up with a loan at low interest rate of about 5% as is required by our Constitution so that these councils can pay off their debts and start up on a clean sheet.
We can be continuously chasing away employees for such issues but it will not help us out. I would like the Hon. Minister to come up with a holistic approach and come up with a solution. We are listening and we are probing because we are paying you respect despite the fact that in your own political party you are referred to as a thug but we are not doing that. What good are they? – [HON. WADYAJENA: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, I was clarifying that even if his party disregards and disrespects him, as the opposition we are respecting him and we are hurt that they refer to him as a thug when he is a Minister.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is irrelevant to the issue of the suspension of the Chitungwiza Town Council.
*HON. MUPFUMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would want to
thank the Minister of Local Government for a job well done as regards Chitungwiza. If it were possible for things to move well, he should appoint people to investigate Chitungwiza Town Council. If they are found not guilty they should be allowed to go back to work – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inga ndozvaataura wani.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members. Hon.
Members, I think you are taking my job because you are not the ones to chair the debates. It is my duty.
*HON. MUPFUMI: If these matters are quickly concluded as
these are allegations, they should return to their positions. The law of this country empowers you to suspend councillors who are not performing their duties properly. Once, you have suspended them, you have the right to have this council reinstated. People are suffering in urban areas. They have no water because we are politicking on issues. There is no refuse removal and councillors cannot be paid. In Mutare where I come from, council workers have not been paid for two years. You are in charge of local Government and you should ensure that councils receive the money that they are supposed to receive every year. There are times when we waiver the debts that need to be paid by ratepayers to councils. Government should pay the councils so that they remain viable.
Members of the opposition should not be indulging in opposition politics in councils. When you went for elections, you said you were going to raise money to run these councils but we are seeing that service delivery has gone down. There is no money to run these councils. Let us do things that are beneficial to us so that when we come here we make contributions that help this country –
*HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I once requested that as Members of Parliament, we should be taught on how we conduct ourselves here. Hon. Mupfumi is behaving as if he is addressing a rally in Dangamvura. We seek clarification but he is addressing the House giving advice and now we do not know if he is seeking clarification or what.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is why I have said Hon.
Members, let us remember that we seek clarity on gray areas of the Minister’s presentation on Chitungwiza Town Council as to why he came up with such a decision not to address rallies or make the utterances that we are making.
*HON. MUPFUMI: Chitungwiza Town Council –
An Hon. Member having passed between the Chair and the Hon.
Member speaking.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Next time Hon. Member, we
do not pass between the Chair and the Hon. Member on the floor – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – - [Laughter.] – Order, Hon. Hungwa.
*HON. MUPFUMI: I was asking that once you are done with
Chitungwiza Town Council, you should come to Mutare Town Council. In Mutare, they dismissed the heads of departments after council stands were disposed in a corrupt manner. We have requested that you come to Mutare but you have not come. We urge you to come to Mutare and expeditiously deal with the Mutare Town Council.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are Hon. Members in this house and we have got to behave honourably.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I rise to debate on the statement that has been given by the – [HON. MEMBERS: Debate?] – to seek clarification but before I seek clarification I just want to applaud the Minister for upholding the law and constitutionalism in Zimbabwe. Last year, we sat in this House to amend the Urban Councils’ Act to come up with procedures for the suspension of chairpersons and councillors. The
Urban Councils’ Act was passed and unfortunately, some Members walked out and they forgot to read the Act when it was enacted. What then transpired was that the Minister was empowered by the Act. The new Section – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member. Hon.
Mutseyami, other Hon. Members were listening when you were debating – [HON. MUTSEYAMI: Inaudible interjections.] – No, I think you need to respect each other.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The reason why I was applauding the Minister is that if you go to the new Section 157, it speaks about the procedures of suspending or removing councillors from office. It states that ‘in accordance with Section 278 of the Constitution’. That is the reason why I referred to the Constitution to say that the Minister upheld constitutionalism by following the due process – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! – [AN HON.
MEMBERS: He is talking on behalf of the Minister. He is not the Minister.] – Order! I think the Hon. Member is correct on what he is saying. He is reminding other Hon. Members what we agreed upon here in the House. Where is he wrong? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order.
HON. ZIYAMBI: If you go to the Urban Councils’ Act, it is very clear that ‘if the Minister has reasonable grounds for suspecting’. In other words it is not saying that somebody has to be convicted. It is saying that if he ‘suspects’ that the councillor or chairperson is unable to
conduct his job or there is gross misconduct –
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My point of order Madam Speaker is, with all due respect, we totally agree that the Hon. Member is citing the correct sections of the law but in doing that he is responding to other issues that have actually been raised by other Hon. Members when they were seeking clarification. I think he is taking away the responsibility of the Minister. Hon. Speaker, if you listen to what he is saying, he is literally responding to clarifications that were sought by Hon. Maridadi and other Hon. Members. Therefore, what will the Hon. Minister do? I think this the responsibility…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I want
to hear what he is saying.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: The responsibility to respond lies with the Minister. As for us Hon. Members, I think our responsibility is to seek clarification. He is not seeking clarification. With all due respect, he is simply answering to other Hon. Members …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Member, but
he even asked that, before he sought clarification he had something to say. So, I am giving him time to do that.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker for protecting me. Before I go to what I want to seek clarification on from the Minister, I just felt that we need to applaud the Minister for following due process. He followed the due process according to the laws of Zimbabwe which empowers him to act if he has reasonable suspicion that something has happened which warrants a suspension.
Madam Speaker, the Minister did a good job of acting on time. We have problems of maladministration, land barons and the Minister has suspended the councillors to afford them an opportunity to appear before a tribunal that he is going to set up to answer to those allegations. It is a very good and progressive way of doing things which we should applaud.
I would like clarification from the Minister on what he is going to do with regards to land barons that have been milking the nation and most of our councils of a lot of funds that could be channeled towards developmental projects.
*HON. MUFUNGA: I would like to thank the Hon. Minister of Local Government, Hon. Kasukuwere for the work that he did in Chitungwiza. I am happy that he was not partisan when he dealt with the issue. He suspended councillors from both parties. I would want to know if the Chief Executive officer is not also implicated in these allegations as well.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: I have a few clarifications that I would want to seek from you….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May you please address the
Chair? You have got to face the Chair.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would also want to appreciate that if indeed there are reasonable grounds for the Minister to take this action, we applaud this.
However, there are issues pertaining to the timing of the Minister’s action. How long had the Minister known that there was this kind of rot that was taking place in the Chitungwiza Municipality? I am asking this because there are certain suspicions and perceptions that probably the Hon. Minister took that action against Chitungwiza Municipality in order to take away attention from his political problems –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am being honest. Hon. Speaker, it might not please others but what I am saying is, these are perceptions which are obtaining in the country that maybe the Hon. Minister suspended the Chitungwiza Municipality in order to take away attention from his troubles. I want him to address the issue of timing.
Secondly, the Hon. Minister indicated that councillors have been afforded an opportunity to defend themselves in writing and then only after he sees what they would have written in response to the allegations, he will then determine whether to take them to a disciplinary hearing or not. The clarification which follows from that is, will you determine the guilt or otherwise of councillors merely on the basis of their written response because it appears from his submissions, he is saying that after he gets their responses, he will determine that this one will go for disciplinary hearing and this one’s suspension can be lifted.
Looking at the fact that he will determine on his own, as an individual – he is not a tribunal; if he is going to determine the reasonable suspicion of those allegations on his own as an individual, is there no danger that that process will be mired in political discrimination where those that are politically correct will be absolved at first instance by the Hon. Minister? Those that are not politically correct will be taken to the tribunal. Is there no danger of that kind of thing happening?
Thirdly, Hon. Speaker, it partly touches on what my colleague
Hon. Mufunga …
HON. MUPFUMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member is just waffling. He is wasting time. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are out of order –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I do not need any comments from you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Member objecting to what I am reminding him about the provisions of the Act - the provisions of the Act specifically specify what the Minister has said and now he is seeking a point of clarification on things that are already there in the Act. We will spend the whole day indirectly reading the Act….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member. I gave
you a chance to refer to those Acts and all the sections. Would you please leave it to the Minister to reply? I think it will be fair because that defence…
HON. ZIYAMBI: May I finish Hon. Speaker –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Can you afford me time to say one or two things before I sit down?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is that a point of order?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You can go ahead.
HON. ZIYAMBI: What is happening now is that Hon. Members are asking the Hon. Minister the provisions of the Act and not the action that he has taken. We cannot have a situation where people are asking what is in the public domain. They should ask specific issues relating to the action that he has taken and not to procedural issues, otherwise we will spend the whole day listening to questions that are already in the Act. That is my point of order to say, can we refer to things that will allow us to expedite our business and go.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. What we do not
want is to go back because what you were referring to is also the procedures. Hon. Member, would you please proceed?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I want to appreciate Hon.
Ziyambi and especially my brother Hon. Mufunga from Mutare….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I responded to
that, would you please proceed.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. The other clarification that I am seeking from the Hon. Minister is from the fact that he indicated in his submission that the councillors and officers were abusing land. He told us of the action that he has taken against the councillors. He did not go on to inform the House of whatever action he intends to take against the officers that are facing the same allegations with the councillors. Then Hon. Speaker, the Hon Minister has also gone on to inform us that he has appointed a caretaker council. We know from previous incidences where the Hon Minister has appointed caretaker councils that they have been accused of gobbling more financial resources than councils themselves. I would want the Hon. Minister to inform the House about the action he has taken to ensure that in the case of Chitungwiza Town Council, the caretakers that he has appointed will not gobble more resources than the council that he has suspended.
Finally, the Hon. Minister, in previous incidences has been accused of appointing his ‘blue-eyed boys’ as caretaker councillors in councils. Can he inform the House what guided him in the current situation to appoint the people who he appointed caretaker councillors?
HON. SARUWAKA: My point of clarification to the Minister relates to the manner in which he has suspended the councillors in
Chitungwiza. Just last year, I think the Minister was trigger happy in Gweru when he suspended eleven councillors and only two of the eleven were found guilty. I think that shows that when you do things hurriedly, you are bound to make a lot of mistakes. I just wanted to understand whether he is going to be prepared to face litigation from the councillors that would have been found not guilty because by suspending them, he is labeling the elected officials and man of honour within their constituencies and their wards of abuse. Is he going to be ready to meet the litigation from these councillors?
Secondly, I understand from the caretaker committee he has appointed that he took someone who I think is approaching 93 years, a retired Mr. Madzudzo Pawadyira. As a former Minister responsible for the youths of this country, when is he going to give opportunities to younger people of this country? We are worried when a Minister goes further to appoint old people into positions when we have got capable young people of this country.
Thirdly, it is clear that the caretaker committee that was appointed by the Minister was handpicked. In the past we have seen him appointing on a partisan line. So, I would want to understand from the Minister that when he appoints a partisan committee, does he not realise that he is undermining democracy in a country because these people were elected by the residents of Chitungwiza. When he then handpicks individuals to cover their space, I think he is directly undermining democracy. Could he please inform this House whether he took note of that?
Lastly, I would want to make a plea to the Minister that indeed if the councillors of Chitungwiza are proven guilty by the courts, would he then probably take his notes to the Head of State so that he does the same with his Cabinet because that is a very good move which we have not seen our Head of State doing? I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: I want to prefix my clarification that I am seeking from the Minister by thanking him for having taken the action that he did. I am doing so particularly after about three or four weeks ago when I tabled a report on service delivery by both urban and rural local authorities. I want to believe the Minister has gone through that report since we have tabled that report as a Committee in this House. Perhaps some of the actions that the Minister has taken must have been influenced by that report. I am saying so because in our report on service delivery, as we went round the country, we noticed that for example Chitungwiza in particular, management and councillors were working in cohorts to some extent in terms of corruption involving land. Even the land barons, to some extent had the support of the councillors as well because there is no way a decision would be taken to issue or to give away land to home seekers, land that is actually in wetlands. Also, the management making resolutions to give land to home seekers that are within wetlands, stream banks and right on top of some of the streams in Chitungwiza. We visited and witnessed that and it is detailed in our report that we tabled in this House. Therefore, I think the action that has been taken is good action by the Minister in terms of having to go to the bottom of the corrupt activities taking place in all our councils.
Another issue that I would want clarified is with regards to the matter of salaries and benefits backlog within the councils where Chitungwiza is one of them. I would want clarification in terms of the five percent allocation that is supposed to go to the metropolitan councils. What action is he taking along those lines because I think it is important in terms of having to facilitate smooth administration by councils? Not only that, in 2013 we saw ourselves having debts owed by residents being cancelled but we did not see similar action being taken to also cancel the debt owed by the same councils which had to meet various other debts incurred in the process of service delivery to the citizens.
One important area which is also in our report is that of
Government agencies who also owe a lot of money to these councils. Yes, in our report we did mention the issue of having to offset debts but it is not being effective because of certain issues, particularly on salaries where councils need the actual cash in order for them to pay their workers. So, I am of the opinion that the Minister should also clarify what should be the way forward in as far as that issue is concerned.
Another issue of concern is to do also with the qualifications of our councilors as well. I think it is an area that our Minister has got to look at. Yes, I know that it is an issue that is in our Constitution, but silent. I am not sure about the Electoral Act, whether it clearly states at least the minimum qualifications for councillors to understand the kind of duties and responsibilities before them. It is an area I would also want clarification from the Minister.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker, in addition to the dissolution as an action that has been taken by the Minister, I would also want to urge the Minister to take cognisance of our recommendations that we made in our report on service delivery. That would also assist him when he gets to the conclusion of the matter or perhaps in the process of coming up with a conclusion to this matter. I thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. For the sake of
transparency and also to allay our fears that this Commission and the subsequent commissions will be awarded heft allowances, can this
House be favoured with the exact amounts which are going to be paid to these commissions and what criteria was used by the Minister to arrive at those figures.
Secondly, I also want the Minister to make it clear on whether he is not setting councillors against town clerks or senior management of councils, as happened in Harare where the Mayor of Harare wanted to suspend the Town Clerk and conversely he is the one who was suspended. Is he not setting councillors against town clerks thereby compromising service delivery in local authorities? Thank you.
*HON. GANGARAHWE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I seek clarity from the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Firstly, I would want to thank you for a job well done for suspending the councillors in question because service delivery was not at 70% of the revenue. I also need clarity on how you come up with the 70% – 30% ratio for salaries and service delivery.
I once met the board for the Chitungwiza councillors when they were enjoying at Margolis and they did agree that what they had done was not right. They agreed to increase the salaries of the workers and theirs at 132%. Later, they observed that their salary bill was for $19 million per year, meaning they have $1.6 million per month against a revenue of $700 000 to $900 000 per month. What steps are you going to take to redress this anomaly, because I foresee that there are serious challenges as regards Chitungwiza. I can make reference to the newspaper in Chitungwiza called Chit Owner. It was published and I believe Members of Parliament from Chitungwiza are aware of this.
I would also want to thank you. How then is the 70% – 30% service delivery viz-a-viz salaries going to be achieved when they are collecting less than what they are supposed to pay out at the end of the month. In terms of corruption, we have observed that corruption is rampant. When are you going to come to the City of Harare because they are clamouring that the rates that are being paid go back to them but they are not able to produce the amounts raised from the audits of parking fees? They are sending residents associations to block the audits. I would want to find out how you are going to work on that one.
I saw some Hon. Members and the Mayor of Harare, Councillor Bernard Manyenyeni requesting that they buy a Mt Pleasant stand for a song. I bought a 2000 square metre stand in Mt Pleasant for $50 000 but I was surprised that a stand that is more than 5000 square metres should be bought for a song, which is part of corruption.
I am grateful for the Bill that was passed which was accepted by the people that empowered you. It is a good Bill that curtails corruption. I believe that you are not moving with the pace that is required; your speed is slow in regard to the corrupt councils that we have. Those that are corrupt should be removed from the councils. Why did you start with Chitungwiza? Harare has more corrupt tendencies and you should deal with them.
My father was once a superintendent in the City of Harare when it was under Local Government Housing. We never used to have burst pipes and potholes. If possible, we should go back to the Local Government Housing which was doing a good job. Without saying much Hon. Minister, you should move with speed and deal with all our urban authorities to rid them of corruption. The Bill that we conducted public hearings on, which we voted for here empowers and urge you to go at a faster speed. There is a backlog of salaries. How are you going to address that anomaly when revenue viz-a-viz expenditure is not sufficient? As a result, there will be nothing left for service delivery.
From the Government point of view, people are insulting the President, the Government and MPs as if we get something. People need to be educated that the potholes that are in Harare, the burst sewer pipes and the non-availability of water is the responsibility of the City of Harare. I am the one who constructed Margolis Resort. They are always there. They come there per week and pay more than $200 per head as councillors. The work that they do is to increase their allowances and salaries only. I thank you Hon. Mininster.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
WORKSHOP ON THE ROLE AND FUNCTIONS OF
PARLIAMENTARY BUDGET OFFICE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): I
have an announcement for a workshop for Committee Chairpersons and Parliament staff on the role and functions of Parliamentary Budget Office, that is, PBO on 8th May, 2017 at Holiday Inn. Parliament has organised an orientation workshop for Committee Chairpersons,
Members of Finance and Economic Development, as well as, Public
Accounts Committees and other members of staff to be held on Monday, 8th May, 2017 at Holiday Inn, Harare from 0930 hours to 1300 hours.
The half day event is aimed at assisting Committee Chairpersons, MPs and Parliament staff to understand the role and functions of PBO by looking at comparative experiences and clarifying the role of PBO staff, vis-a-vis that of Committee Clerks and Researchers. Participants are expected to identify specific areas of interest that the PBO can include in their work plans. The workshop will also touch base on quarterly reporting guidelines for ministries and other Government departments. All Committee Chairpersons, Members of Finance and Economic Development as well as Public Accounts Committees are expected to be seated by 0920 hours. The Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda will deliver his opening remarks at 0930 hours. I thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My first question to the Minister is what measures is he putting in place so that we have sufficient checks and balances on local authorities in terms of complying with the provisions of the Constitution regarding the issue of devolution. It is a well-known fact that in 2013, we agreed as a nation across all political parties that we should be having devolution. What measures is he putting in place?
Secondly, to improve on the operation, efficiency and effectiveness of local authorities, Section 301 is very clear that, at least five percent of revenue collected by Government must be allocated to local authorities.
What measures is the Minister putting in place?
Lastly, I would like to know from the Minister if there is no conflict of interest. It is common knowledge that the Town Clerk for
Chitungwiza, Mr. George Makunde is the Deputy Secretary for Administration within ZANU PF structures in Mashonaland Central. He was also responsible for bussing people a few weeks ago to the demonstration against the Minister. I would want to know the suspension, if it does not border on criminal abuse of office on behalf of the Minister against the citizens of Chitungwiza. I would want the Minister to clarify to the House if he is not solving his personal vendetta with the Town Clerk; Mr. Makunde who is the secretary for administration in Mashonaland Central and was against him on the demonstration that was running in Mashonaland Central two weeks ago.
Thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me thank the Hon. Members in this august House for doing a splendid job because they came up with this legislation that the Minister is now using. This was a job well done for empowering the Minister. We may ask questions for clarity but as Parliament, we did very well. We should be beating our chest because we did very well. Let me thank our Minister that he read the situation well, analysed it well and observed it and took measures to curtail corruption. We are always talking about corruption in this august House and should be curtailed.
I would want the Hon. Minister to clarify on what will happen to the land that was illegally allocated to the councillors. When is it going to be reposed? If it had been sold to other innocent parties, what measures are you going to take to ensure that the land is restituted to Government? When these councillors are busy stealing, what role is the council officials playing? They are also complicit in these acts. Your investigations should also involve these workers and we want you to tell us what measures you are going to take against those workers. I would like to say that Minister, you are moving very slowly, we urge you to move with speed because Harare, the capital city has problems. We came up with a resolution after the water loan from China was misused. We saw your Councillors and Mayors like Manyenyeni driving new motor vehicles and nothing was being done. My question is, have you audited what that loan was used for? You are moving slowly, but you are doing a good job, hasten your speed.
The Bulawayo City Council is not performing well. They do not have water. You should expeditiously deal with such issues because we have empowered you as Parliament. We want to oversight you to see if you are moving at a fast pace or you are now moving slowly. Are you now condoning the theft by these councillors? I thank you.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I urge that we look at our privileges and commitments as Parliament, that when we discuss issues that have been brought by the Ministers – this is a national crisis, we should also introspect. We are doing work avoidance because it is the duty of Members of Parliament to ensure that they carryout oversight of the Executive using councils. We should be telling these Ministers that we are not doing our work to oversee the work of councils because all Members of Parliament are members of councils, in terms of the Constitution.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me thank the Hon. Members for their very solid responses to the Statement that I have made today. Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that judging from the remarks and contributions that have been made by the majority of our Members, they want us to do what we are doing, that is to fight corruption in the local governance system. I have no doubt in my mind Mr. Speaker Sir that, yes, in the contributions, there could be a few of us who want to push this whole matter of corruption under the carpet, it will not work. It will not be correct, it is wrong.
I want to start by thanking Hon. Nduna for his very strong contributions and call to us to have a look at the Chegutu council. The same also goes for Hon. Phiri. Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, we have a challenge in our local authorities. The corruption has to a large extent become chronic, almost literally all of the councils. Today, this opportunity, I must say as the Minister, we will not run away from our duty to protect the citizens in our country. I want to appeal to my colleagues Members of Parliament, all of us from both sides of the
House; we have a duty to protect the interests of our people, irrespective of our political differences. I think we must unite when it comes to our people. When a family goes for three, four months without water, it should really concern Members on my right and those to my left. It is our duty together.
Hon. Cross, thank you very much for your solid support and understanding that the existing conditions are appalling. Chitungwiza is a case study for corruption. If anyone wants to study how a city can be made useless and redundant, go to Chitungwiza. I had an opportunity to walk around there yesterday, from my discussions with the members of the community, people are fed up and it is not about the politics. It is about their failure to administer the affairs of a given city. I am not pointing fingers at anyone. In the way we have handled ourselves, we have not suspended people from a given political party, we suspended the councillors. Each councillor must carry his or her own cross, not Eddie Cross. Hon. Cross goes on to say, Harare City again requires us to attend. Water that Chitungwiza uses is 30% which is close to about 30 mega litres of water that Chitungwiza must be getting – here is the challenge Mr. Speaker. Even that water which they are getting, Chitungwiza is not paying to Harare. The funds that they collect - how do you justify a situation where councillors sit, they undermine the circulars that we have written from $65 and $95, they go to $300 per diem? In other words, whatever is coming their way is meant to enrich individuals.
Mr. Speaker, I will be hesitant to go deeper into these matters because there is a process that is underway but I will still be able to favour our colleagues with some of the salient features of the level of corruption. Councillors identify a piece of land, they connive with officials in the City Planning Department, they approve and they then take those stands. They do not sell in the council premises but under a tree. A councillor walks out and says, here is the land, give me my $5 000 but wait here, I will bring you a receipt of $200, which is what they give to the council and take the balance which is $4 800. If anybody in his right senses were to defend that, then I think we have a problem.
Mr. Speaker, this means that the residents and our city mothers and so forth are going for hours and hours without service delivered. The collection of refuse has come to a standstill. So, I want to thank Hon. Cross for his appreciation and understanding of the depth of our challenges in these towns. Mr. Cross, I hope that you and I must work closely together to address this situation. It is not about ZANU PF and it is not about MDC but it is about people who have lost direction and who think that they must take advantage of our people. We do not have to politicise and defend a thief because a thief is a thief – whether the thief is ZANU PF, let us deal with him and if he is MDC, let us deal with them. Because, to try and say it is political, it is actually trying to evade or run away from our responsibilities. The beginning has to start somewhere and it has begun now.
I agree that Chitungwiza was built and meant to serve 200 000 people. When Forbes Magadu was appointed the Chairman, they worked on that town but today like he has correctly said, it is bigger than
Bulawayo and Gweru but yes, on the statics, 20 000 new households that have been built in Chitungwiza are not on the rate base. Nobody knows who owns those properties but they are getting service from this local authority. I will invite my dear brother and colleague Hon. Cross to come. Yesterday, I visited one of the areas and I saw that one metre apart, there is a gravesite and houses are starting there and next to that graveyard, there is a borehole and next, there is a vegetable piece –
[HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Inaudible interjections.]-
Mr. Speaker, when the Vice President spoke we were listening and he must also allow us to speak. I was just trying to emphasise in response to a good contribution that has been made by Hon. Eddie Cross. On top of it, the question of land barons, this is what we are tackling. The land barons have ballooned the number of homes in Chitungwiza beyond what our council can manage because these are now owned by individuals who have decided to make themselves planning and housing officers. We have to address it and this is what is being addressed in my terms of reference to the Commission that is looking at Chitungwiza. We will not leave any stone unturned in our pursuit to put right what has gone wrong.
On the question of land barons, I am happy that the nation is rallying around us. This is a serious cancer in our society. You were dead right in your statistics that somebody sells 13 000 stands at $45 000 each and they put in their pocket $54 million not only in Chitungwiza but across many sectors and many cities in our country –[HON. ENG.
MUDZURI: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mudzuri, you were
given the floor to debate. Can you give the Minister the chance to answer to your questions?
HON. KASUKUWERE: It is $54 million. The amount of money
Mr. Speaker – I am just only using the statistics that Hon. Cross gave us when he gave an example that if you calculate say 13 000 stands and $4 000 or $5 000 each, what would they give you. This is about US$54 million and this is the amount of money that our local authorities are losing to individuals who claim to own land and sell it and it is indeed a serious cause for concern. If these land barons were to go unchecked, they can become a law unto themselves. They can become dangerous to the stability of our country and we have seen it and we will see more in the future. It does not just end with the land barons as we talk about them, but their network of criminals who are councillors and all the way to the officials.
You have towns, Kuwadzana for instance, as you are driving to Bulawayo to your left there is a new unplanned development that is coming up there just before the stream and there is no water. I am saying collectively as Zimbabweans, can we live with this kind of corruption? Under there, there is the sewer and so forth yet councillors have found a way of giving phone numbers to middlemen who sit in hotels selling that piece of land. I can favour you Hon. Eddie Cross with this information and I am sure you can do something about it. What is required is dignity, honesty and integrity.
On City of Harare, Victoria Range, we are addressing this matter because again, there has to be a process that allows us to create towns in the country. You cannot come up on your own and say I am going to do the following. I came to this Parliament last year Mr. Speaker and made a statement in terms of the three or four other new settlements that we are creating in this country – Umguza in Bulawayo, Chishawasha in Harare, part of Caledonia as well as part of Manyame and this is how things must be and not for an individual to create a town of his or her own without adequate supply of water, without roads and without power. They just pave the roads and collect people’s funds. I am not going to allow this to happen and as Government we are determined to nip these challenges right in the bud.
Mr. Speaker, Gweru City Council – yes, I hear you but to the contrary, we made tremendous progress with that commission. If the truth were to be said, I can tell you that even the salaries of the workers were almost up to date but as I am speaking now, we are almost two or three months behind notwithstanding perhaps also the calibre and I think that this is collective. At times, the calibre of the people that we have asked to become councillors leaves a lot to be desired. If I were to share some of the insults some of the so-called mayors will send across mobile phones, it is disheartening and unexpected of someone who is a city father to go into such kind of expletives to insult other people.
We will do everything in our power to ensure that we do not get those who are appointed to run these councils to milk those councils – which we should not accept. The legal position in terms of the law is very clear. The Minister is empowered to do what I am doing and I want to thank Hon. Ziyambi for having actually shown us what is contained in the Urban Councils Act and all the relevant sections. So, we are basically following the law. We will also invite the police who have an open invitation. The police do not have to wait for the Minister to say come because where there is detection of a crime, the police must just move in and do what they do best, and carry out the relevant arrests. Mr. Speaker, we will not accept corruption to mount and fester in our local authorities.
*Hon. Eng. Mudzuri, I would like to thank you. You have tried to suppress the truth Vice President, but the truth will always come out.
This is not a Kasukuwere issue, it is a national issue. Those councillors were stealing and those that are clean are going to be absolved. Let us come up with touchable results. The fact that you were once suspended was unfortunate; it was just your fate. I cannot respond to that. I would also like to thank Hon. Eng. Mudzuri for his good contribution that we must fight corruption. We should work together, hand in hand and get rid of corruption. The acquiring of stands should be transparent. We are going to eradicate shady deals as regards stands allocation.
In Harare - yes, we said there are allegations. We are going to cast our net wide. We are not going to have any sacred cows. Devolution which is in the Local Government Amendment Bill; when our Ministries were separated, we decided to come up with a single law and bring it to Parliament so that we are able to perform our duties. Yes, we need to move with speed but people should pay their rates. People should not wait expecting to have their debts written off. It is not going to happen.
They must pay for the services.
The other issue is that councils are awarding their workers hefty salaries, more than the revenue that they are collecting. We need to be courageous in setting this matter correct. You would find that a starting salary for one of the council employee is $4 000 a month. This is what is prevailing in our councils. We need to put our heads together to come up with permanent solutions.
I would also like to thank Hon. Mandipaka who acknowledged that our councils, especially urban councils have failed in action and that we must move decisively to deal with that scourge. Hon. Maridadi is no longer here, I wish he was here. Unfortunately, he does not take the work of Parliament very seriously. Yes, he used to enjoy being a radio
DJ talking to kids, it is different now. We are talking about Parliament. We are no longer on the Kids-Net where he used to talk to children and laugh with them. This is Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, the allegation on Pomona- Pomona is a piece of land that was taken by a developer and we have repossessed that land as the
Ministry. We are saving that land for the purposes of our country. Hon.
Maridadi is now here. I want to thank you very much for your contribution. I just made it a point that, we are discussing serious Parliamentary and national issues. It is about our people - service delivery. I know your background my dear brother; you used to play with kids on radio station. I am sure you think you are still playing with kids. It is a different circumstance now. Can we be a bit more mature and serious about national issues?
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, my
background has nothing to do with this. I was serious when I was discussing the issue of Chitungwiza. The example that I gave about Hon. Kasukuwere is a serious example. When I spoke about Hon. Kasukuwere having solicited a $5 million bribe, I am not the one who brought that on fore and it is a serious issue. I did not talk about it his background as a driver. He used to be a driver at CIO, driving kids to school. He is now a Minister, nobody spoke about his past. There is a lot of background on Hon. Kasukuwere that we know, that we are not going to talk about. Hon. Mliswa told us a lot of things about Hon.
Kasukuwere. We did not bring it in. This is not personal – [HON.
MEMBERS: In audible interjections.] –
Mr. Speaker, Hon. Kasukuwere must deal with matters at hand and not talk about backgrounds. If he wants to talk about backgrounds, he must not cry foul because we know a lot about him also.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. In the CIO,
there are vehicles somebody must drive and it was during those times when we had some people playing with kids.
I want to thank Hon. Mutseyami for his contribution. The issue of outstanding salaries - indeed like what I said, I think we require to be a bit brave. If we have to stop the challenges that are facing our local authorities; both sides of the House, we have got to confront this challenge. The salary bill is unsustainable. It way above the collections. The 5% that must come, that can only be occasioned if we complete the legal process of coming up with the Local Government Bill.
*Hon. Mupfumi, I would like to thank you very much on your contributions as regards Mutare. There are issues which need to be addressed. You also talked about salaries for workers that have not been paid. These are the problems that we are facing nationwide as regards issues pertaining to councils. We are not going back. We are going to set these councils straight. Hon. Ziyambi, I want to thank you. Indeed you did a good job by commending what we are doing, that is upholding the Constitution. That Mr. Speaker is important; it is about the laws of our land, we must uphold it and that is our duty.
The issue of land barons- we talked about it and we will spare no effort. In fact, we will be coming back to Parliament to give a statement on the action Government will be taking on identifying those holding State land illegally. There is a huge amount of State land in the hands of individuals who must not be having that land and that land must come back to the State. By saying so, it creates additional challenges but we are in it to do what is in the best interest of our country.
Hon. Mufunga, thank you very much. You congratulated us for doing well. Eleven councillors are ZANU PF and the rest are MDC.
We suspended all of them and they are going to be cleared. We gave them seven days. Four of them have already stated their positions in regard to the law of this country. We are going to sit with our lawyers and see who is guilty and who is clean. Those that are guilty will be dealt with in terms of the law. They will appear before the tribunal.
He also talked about the issue of workers. The Town Clerk is not employed by the Town Council. The Minister works with councillors. It is the duty of councillors to look into the duties of the Town Clerk.
Hon. Ziyambi spoke about the reasonable grounds for the decision to be taken. In fact, he was supporting what we have done that there are grounds for us to do exactly what we have done and it is also in keeping with our Constitution. The time, he has said we should have dealt with this situation a lot earlier but like Hon. Zindi has said, she said it earlier on. The Committee produced a very important report and I want to call upon all Members of Parliament to get a copy of the report that was produced by our Committee, which basically also details what is happening in our urban authorities.
Beyond that, the internal audit which is the basis of our action was commissioned by the councillors themselves in Chitungwiza. So, we were basically acting on the information they had provided to us which exposed their own glaring challenges associated with corruption and so forth, to the extent that even the Mayor is appearing before the courts.
So, we will attend to these problems.
The determination; well, where there is a prima facie case; we will be able to say this is substantive and let us proceed with the law, but where there is no case, we should not punish innocent people.
The caretaker council which is now in place led by Mr. Pawadyira who is a long standing and a very competent one. He headed our Civil Protection Unit for a very long time. We will look at all the issues objectively and if there are officers who are implicated in the corruption, naturally, that is the power the commission has been given but it is not for the Minister to target or persecute any individual.
The question that I have appointed my blue-eyed boys: I am not sure how the eyes are blue but we have appointed Zimbabweans who are competent. Certainly, from the remarks that he made what we want to assure our Hon. Members of Parliament here is that we will not allow this to be a feeding trough by those who have been appointed as Commissioners.
Hon. Saruwaka spoke about the Gweru suspension that will perhaps face litigation and that there are men of honour in relation to
Chitungwiza. There is no honour when you sell stands under a tree. The Gweru issue has been dealt with and handled. Those who were asked to leave their positions have been told to do so. It shows we will always be just in our dealings. We will not punish innocent people. He also spoke about the age of Mr. Pawadyira. I am not sure how that comes into play but we have appointed Mr. Pawadyira because of his experience and we hope and trust that the level of probity that he has exhibited in the past will be put into good use. There is no clash in terms of democracy. Democracy is not a one way street which says you can loot, abuse and hide under the cover of democracy. We will pierce that veil of democracy and fish you out if there is anything that is going wrong.
Mr. Speaker, Hon. Zindi thanked us and like I said, I want to pay tribute to her leadership and the Committee that she heads, which has unearthed quite a lot of dirt that this Ministry is seized with, and that has actually given us a lot to run after and actually deal with some of these challenges. We are informed and also guided by the Hon. Zindi’s report.
Mr. Speaker, Hon. Zindi observed the construction in wetlands, stream banks, unfairness to the people and this is exactly what we are trying to get at. We cannot allow wetlands to be abused with people just building on wetlands. We are subjecting our children to danger going forward. She also raised the matter of salaries and the backlog. Yes, you proposed 5% allocation but this is not the only solution. The solution is austerity measures. Are we paying for a job that is being done? What can we do also to ensure that the number of people working in given councils is adequate for the tasks that they are expected to carry out? I think clearly, there is a case of overstaffing as well as over payment but we are going to tread very carefully and ensure that we win this battle by engaging and ensuring that sense prevails.
Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General’s reports were given to all of us. I think we all read them. I am sure all Members of Parliament are in agreement with me that what Mrs. Chiri produced was damning to most of our local authorities. In those reports, there is a plethora of cases of corruption that were unearthed by the Auditor General’s Office. For example, issues of salaries, rationalization and so forth. The question that she has also raised to do with the qualification of our councillors, I think this is a very important point. We will look at the law to see how this can become part of a cocktail of measures that we could propose to Parliament so that we avert the crisis that is facing our nation in terms of local governance.
The recommendations by the parliamentary Committee will be taken on board and we are glad that Parliament has done very well. They have exercised their minds on this matter and we are excited about what they have done.
Hon. Maondera also asked us to ensure that the amounts we pay, we are going to fix them in the best interest of our people. We will not allow - like I said earlier for those who have been appointed to turn it into a money making venture. We are not splitting councillors against the town clerks; we just want good work to be done. If the councillors become embedded with their workers, and end up losing direction, we have a duty to stop that.
Hon. Gangarahwe, we thank you because you have observed 132% increases. There was a time when there was connivance that the workers would say increase our salaries and also increase your allowance. When people get $300 in allowances per day, they will just require 10 days to receive $3 000 untaxed and put it in their wallets. It was a case of the left hand washing the right, connivance. We cannot use things that were used at a beer drink, but there is nothing that is beyond the glare of the public, no matter how hidden the venue might be.
There is an issue regarding the Sunshine City. We wanted the parking space in Harare to be audited. No one knows how much money is being paid. Hospitals and clinics are paying but it is not known where the money is going. There are some companies or boards that are in Ghana but the revenue that is raised is unaccounted for. If you touch on such issues, it will appear as if you are stirring the hornet’s nest, but this is the truth of the matter. The leaders that are in council even tell you that Minister this issue is difficult. We do not know whether it ends with the leaders of the council or the party. There are leakages in terms of finances.
What I kindly request of this august House is for us as Hon. Member to fight against corruption. Be assured, we will do our part and if anybody has enough allegations against this very Minister, please the police station is there, go and report. Devolution of local authorities, I have already responded to that. Efficiency of local authorities; this we will have to attend to and this is what we are trying to do.
In answering my dear colleague who spoke about George Makunde, this is not political. We dealt with an audit report that emanated from Chitungwiza Town Council. It was not done yesterday, let alone last month but it has been with us for the past three months. So, it is not personal and I have no vendetta against anybody, all we have simply down is I suspended the councillors not the Town Clerk or anybody else. We are dealing with facts that have been presented before us as a Ministry.
Hon. Mahoka, we thank you. You spoke about the restoration of the land - there will be serious problems as regards the issue of land. That is why you see other big men running scared. There are some bad people that were feeding and when we call them to account, they come up with excuses. It does not matter how clever the hare is, but when the tortoise has caught the hare’s leg, it will remain holding on it despite the fact that the hare says that the tortoise is holding on to a root.
Those that were benefiting, and have enriched themselves and they should restitute. There are Government workers that are not being properly paid whilst others are busy getting the majority of the proceeds and they say they have got money. Where did you get that money and can you account for it. We are not going to sweep anything under the carpet. You find that someone has sold the entire town and has issued out stands. He has graded some roads and there is no proper planning.
There is no sewerage and no water and you say you are a businessman.
We cannot accept that.
We are also going to look into the issue of the workers that has been raised by Hon. Mahoka and the water deals in Harare.
I would like to thank all Hon. Members and appeal to all of us from across the political divide, let us join hands and give our people a better deal. Let us join hands and fight corruption where it exists. We will respect the recommendations from our Parliamentary Committees. They have given us very good guidance. We will also carry out investigations and I am sure that in the next few weeks, we will also be looking at quite a number of councils where the investigations have been completed. Those who serve the people must serve with dignity and honour. Those who serve the people and think it is a time to loot must know that the hour has come. Thank you very much.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON. MUKWANGWARIWA, the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes to
Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 9th May, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
INVITATION TO THE ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY
CAUCUS ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that all
Members of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus are being invited to an annual general meeting to be held on Friday, 5th May, 2017 at 0900 hours in the Senate Chamber. All documents pertaining to the discussions at the meeting have been circulated through the Members’ pigeon holes.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Just as a matter of procedure, I will request the Chair to indicate to us those Ministers and Deputy Ministers who have given their apologies because they should seek the leave of the Speaker if they are not in the House. As a matter of practice, you have been advising us. So I think it is just an omission and I am just kindly requesting the Chair to appraise us so that the nation and the Hon. Members are aware of those Ministers who have complied with the relevant procedures and sought your leave to be absent from today’s Question Time.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you for your observation Hon.
member. I rushed here and did not check with the Papers’ Office. I ask some officials to go and check and I will advise accordingly.
*MR. ZWIZWAI: I wish to raise a point of privilege. Thank you. Good afternoon Hon. Speaker. I have stood up to raise issues centred on privileges and immunities. Considering that three months ago as she was giving a response in this august House, Hon. Chikwinya changed her statements and furnished us with false information on the issue that they had started recruiting human resources for the Women’s Bank without having flighted the advert for the populace of Zimbabwe. I raised that issue and you gave me your word that you would go and listen to the recordings and also look at what was written in the Hansard. You came back and gave a ruling that the Minister should give a ministerial statement to correct the matter because you had listened to the recording and seen the statement in the Hansard that these were some untruths. It is now three months before the Minister has come to the august House to give the statement. We do not know whether the money is being utilised without the knowledge of the people. This shows that this House is not taken seriously, especially you as the Presiding Officer, and it is in contravention with the Standing Orders. My request is that, since the Minister is not adhering to your ruling, serve her with contempt of Parliament and to give that ruling because the Minister is undermining your authority. I am being assisted by experts that the Privileges
Committee is another method that you can use in order to summon the Minister to come and update this august House and the nation at large on the false information she gave us.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you said what the
Minister said was false and yet you have not heard the response from the Minister. Before we have heard the response from the Minister, we cannot talk about false statements. I request that you withdraw that statement.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: I am sorry Mr. Speaker, I said the Minister gave false information but what she said was in contradiction of what she said. What she said was not true yet she was under oath.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, do not be too clever by
using idioms. The last part of your statement is not acceptable at all.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: I withdraw the words that I said about false information but what I am saying is that the Minister is not adhering to your ruling.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, may you please sit down so that I can respond. Before we went on short leave, the Minister came but we did not accord her the opportunity. She had prepared the statement. I am sure tomorrow we will request that she comes and gives us a statement.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. ZIYAMBI: My question is directed to the Minister of
Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment. Community Share
Ownership Trusts were established to be custodians of trust funds. They purchase equipment that is supposed to be used by the community but there is a challenge that the Community Share Ownership Trusts are now claiming ownership of the equipment and are now hiring the equipment to the council.
Is that what is supposed to happen when people are trustees and have bought equipment using the community’s money. They have to hire out the equipment to others yet they should be beneficiaries.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, we agreed that you would not code switch. What are you saying when you are talking about hiring and setting up?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Speaker, in our vernacular, it is difficult to come up with the right words for those terms.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: It is kukweretesa.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Minister, kukweretesa or hiring out equipment to the council.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH, INDIGENISATION AND ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT (HON. TONGOFA): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would also like to thank the Hon. Member for that pertinent question.
When Community Share Ownership Trusts were set up, they were set up to assist those in the communities. What happened was that the seed capital was supposed to be maintained but it was now being used up and nothing was coming from the companies. For them to be able to maintain the equipment, they can then hire out this equipment for a fee to ensure that the machines are maintained. The equipment that can be hired out includes drilling machines, caterpillars and so on. For this equipment to remain viable, we requested them to take measures to ensure that they have funding for maintenance of the machines. That is why we took up that measure. I thank you.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I would like to thank the Minister for the response that he has just given. In our communities, council renders services for the people. If the machines are bought and the trustees keep those machines, the people who are supposed to be working as council are not doing their job. The council has the right to ensure that maintenance of the equipment is done. If any type of equipment is bought, it goes to the council but if this equipment stays with trustees, it seems that they are making profit. That is not clear. So, who are the owners because the ones we know as the owners are the ones who are now having to pay for the use of that equipment?
*HON. TONGOFA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. What I am not sure of is the amount that is being charged on hiring. The trust includes part of council and traditional leaders. We tell them to raise money for the maintenance of equipment and not to make money but if there are other issues the Hon. Member has heard pertaining to this and is contrary to what I am saying, he can advise my Ministry so that we can take action.
*HON. MLISWA: The issue of Community Ownership Trusts which is being talked about, others were given graders and drilling machines. What Hon. Ziyambi is referring to is about the Zvimba Constituency. Where I come from in Norton, there are no graders and any other equipment. How was the distribution of the equipment done among constituencies? Chegutu and Norton do not have any equipment but Zvimba has. Is that how it is done that others get and some do not get yet the community is supposed to benefit from its resources?
*HON. TONGOFA: I think this question was raised sometime back by the same Hon. Member and I explained that the traditional leaders are responsible for the distribution of this equipment. It is not the Ministry that distributes this equipment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think these trusts were not found in urban areas but in rural areas. That could be the reason why Norton does not have this particular equipment he is talking about. I thank you.
*HON. MLISWA: The Minister said that in Norton there is no rural area but Norton has three rural constituencies. It has ward 15, 13 and 14. These fall under Chegutu Rural District, so Norton has rural and urban areas. So, he is saying that the rural people were not being given and now that I have conscientised him that Norton has both urban and rural areas, what equipment has he given to the rural areas? I am asking about those who are under Chegutu Rural District, why were they not given the equipment?
HON. TONGOFA: The wards that he is talking about are under
Chegutu Rural District and they are the ones who consider those wards. If we are to look into it, you will find that they probably benefitted from the trust under Chegutu Rural Council. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: My supplementary is to do with the issue of traditional leaders and community ownerships trusts that have been mentioned by the Minister, we have Kariba dam along the Zambezi and coal that is in Hwange Thermal Station as well as Kariba Power Station, surrounded by areas with Tonga and Nambia people. We want to know if ZESA and Hwange as companies, have set up community share ownership trusts so that the people who are from Binga and other areas benefit. What measures have you put in place, or are they just living in poverty whilst their resources are being used elsewhere in the country and also in areas like Namibia, without them benefitting from their resources. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member that is not a
supplementary question but a brand new question altogether.
HON. M. NDLOVU: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Chombo. I come from Bulilima East. I would like to know what the policy is on spellings that are mis-spelt on identity documents. The example is in Kalanga, we spell our names chehanga as tjehanga but the people at the Registrar’s office spell it with ‘ch’. When people then go to have these anomalies corrected they are penalized, that is vanoripisiwa.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR.
CHOMBO): Ordinarily, when someone applies for a document, you
are required to check the spelling when the officer is taking the record. Secondly, you are also required to produce other documents where the name is spelt correctly. If, for any other reason the name has been misspelt, the corrections are made without any payment. If there are areas where an officer made a mistake and then demanded that some payment be made, let us know and we will adjust accordingly.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Minister, when we look at our
country, most people do not have identity documents and that is a challenge that is in most rural constituencies. There is also a challenge of names that are misspelt. The challenge is that there are no documents. Does Government have any measures in place to ensure that those without documentation are able to get that documentation in line with what is in the Constitution? Are you going to have a programme whereby there is going to be decentralization for people to get identity cards and birth certificates as well as passports? Are you considering this?
HON. DR. CHOMBO: I wish to confirm that later in the year the
Registrar’s department will visit the rural areas to make sure that those citizens who need identity documents are given an opportunity to do so. They will also give an opportunity to citizens who want birth certificates to do so and also to attend to death certificates. I also wish to say that there are offices in each and every district in the country with even some sub-offices that are open every day and are providing these services. So, we will make a public announcement to enable people who have missed this opportunity to take advantage of this and get their birth certificates, identity documents and death certificates issued.
*HON. MLISWA: I thank the Hon. Member for his response but there are other people who do not have any type of document because the Registrar’s office only give documentation to those with papers. However, we have orphans who do not have anything in terms of documentation. They do not have enough documentation. What is going to be done about that? If they have no form of documentation, how can you identify them? What measures do you have in place as a Ministry to ensure that those without adequate paperwork are able to get their documentation? I am asking specifically on behalf of the orphans who do not have any documentation?
HON. DR. CHOMBO: I want to thank Hon Mliswa for his question. Orphans and other vulnerable groups that do not have papers of where they were born, are people who have the right to get identity documents. We will look into the fact of who looked after them and that gives them the right to get documents that are under discussion.
It is a long process; it is not done there and then because we need evidence on which school you attended and for how many years, as well as who looked after you. Those papers have to be prepared for one to be able to acquire the documents. Most people who are born in this country have their identification documents and it pertains mainly to refugees. So, if we are to meet such challenges, we have ways of addressing this issue. If they are not addressed, advise us on the areas and the people concerned to ensure that they get their identity documentation that they have a right to.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon.
Minister, with the biometric voter registration system every eligible voter, that is, everyone who is above 18 years will have to register afresh as a voter. What is Government doing to ensure that there is a roll out programme ahead of voter registration where people will be given an opportunity to get birth certificates and IDs? There is a great concern, especially in Matabeleland where people were killed during the gukurahundi era – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - and their children up to now do not have IDs and birth certificates. What is Government doing to make sure that there is a roll out programme ahead of voter registration, so that by the time voter registration begins, all eligible voters have IDs and birth certificates? This is a crucial time where every Zimbabwean is supposed to be given an opportunity to go and vote for leadership of their choice. I thank you.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: I thank you for giving me this
opportunity to address the question that was raised by Hon. Khupe. First and foremost, the issue of gukurahundi does not arise in this particular case – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Minister of Home
Affairs, can you please proceed.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I wish to state very
clearly that regardless of your circumstances of not having a birth certificate or an ID, the Government has made it clear that arrangements are made. You can bring your relative, your uncle, brother, sister, school master and even anybody who knows you testify. That is why I was telling Hon. Khupe that the issue that she was raising was a nonissue viz-a-viz the issue of birth certificates. Thank you.
HON. KHUPE: I have a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. KHUPE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise on a point of order because we are raising a very important issue where children and many people do not have IDs and birth certificates as a result of gukurahundi.
Their parents were killed and right now they do not have access to birth certificates and IDs. This is a very important issue; it is not a non-issue. It is very important when it comes to registration of voters. Can the Minister withdraw Mr. Speaker Sir, because I do not think that it is fair for him to say the issue of gukurahundi is a non-issue and that it does not arise when children do not have birth certificates.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Minister, can you
approach the Chair.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I have asked the Hon.
Member to explain the context of his statement so that he is understood.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to clearly clarify this matter which has arisen out of the question that Hon. Khupe had raised. The issue that she raised was lack of birth certificates or other national identification documents by persons in her catchment area due to – [HON.
MEMBERS: No! no!] –Mr. Speaker Sir,
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order please. Carry on Hon.
Minister.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I think the word catchment
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I had not recognised you Honourable. You cannot start speaking before I recognise you. What is the point of order?
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of order is that the words which the Minister is using – Mr. Speaker, we must be very sensitive when we are in this august House. I believe that when an Hon.
Minister talks of someone’s catchment area, I am not clear as to what he is trying to insinuate because we have got an Hon. Member who is the Vice President of the Movement for Democratic Change – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, she is the Vice President and she has raised a question. She is also the leader of the official opposition in this august House and she has raised an important and pertinent issue.
It is an issue which touches on the nation of Zimbabwe because the issue of Gukurahundi has been acknowledged to have been a mistake by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe. The supplementary question raised by the leader of the opposition, who is an Hon. Member of Parliament is a national issue. In his response, I believe that the Hon. Minister should not belittle Hon. Khupe or to denigrate or do something which undermines the integrity of the Member who has asked the question.
I therefore ask that the question of a catchment area or the use of the words ‘catchment area’ should be withdrawn. Mr. Speaker Sir, we are waiting for him to explain and clarify as you asked him to do and he is compounding the error when he started talking about it being a nonissue, it is what caused the problem. Now he is compounding the error by making reference to a catchment area. What does that mean Mr.
Speaker?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Can you switch off your microphone please? Hon. Minister, I think the word ‘catchment’ creates some sensitivity, if it could be withdrawn please.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: Mr. Speaker Sir, under your wise counsel, I withdraw the word ‘catchment’.
HON. MANDIPAKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Minister cannot withdraw the word ‘catchment’ only. He should withdraw the words, ‘catchment area’.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I asked the Minister to withdraw the word and I am asking the Hon. Minister to further explain. Thank you – [AN HON. MEMBER: MDC irikutiitira noise, we cannot hear.] – Order, order. I have ruled that the word catchment is sensitive and the Hon. Minister has withdrawn. That is my ruling and I cannot go further than that. I am now asking the Hon. Minister to explain himself – [Hon. Mandipaka having stood up on a point of order.] – Sit down please, sit down. We cannot go on like this. Can you allow the Hon.
Minister to respond.
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of order is that there are Members of Parliament who are standing. There is Hon. Shumba and the other two at the back, they are afraid to sit on empty seats because they will be expelled from the Party – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, please allow the Minister
to explain himself.
HON. HOLDER: Mr. Speaker Sir, these people are making noise, we cannot hear what is being said – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member there.
Order, Hon. Mandipaka, two wrongs do not make a right.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker I just want to clarify so that Members can understand what I meant. When documents are issued, Government is very clear that there are many people who may not have the relevant persons to assist them to acquire them on time and there are people who have not had birth certificates or other relevant national documents on time. So, there are sufficient measures in place to make sure that they are assisted to acquire birth certificates and other relevant documents. As I said to the earlier question, on the second half of this year we are going to do some blitz in all the provinces and see those who need national documents and these will be provided by the department and throughout the country. Those who may be left out for a reason or another are also very much welcome to our various district centres and sub-district offices to get the relevant and necessary documents and that they can register as voters and that they participate in the election, come 2018. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. KHUPE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker
Sir, I hear what the Minister is explaining that there is going to be a blitz to make sure that all those who do not have birth certificates are issued with birth certificates or IDs, but the issue here is that the Hon. Minister said, the Gukurahundi issue is a non-issue and we are saying, he must withdraw that; whereas Mr. Speaker Sir, it is a big issue.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of order has to do with what the Minister said that Gukurahundi is a non-issue. It is a big issue in that 35 years down the line, still those children whose parents were killed during the Gukurahundi era do not have IDs and birth certificates. So, it is a big issue and we are requesting the Hon. Member to withdraw what he said that it is a non-issue. Unless Mr. Speaker Sir, if he believes that it was a non-issue, then it must be put on record that the Minister is saying it was a non-issue and therefore for him it does not matter -[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I had agreed with the Hon. Minister to explain himself on the issue of Gukukurahundi being a non-issue but he did not explain that.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The matter that relates to Gukurahundi that Hon. Khupe raised -[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I do not want to send someone out. Allow the Hon. Minister to explain himself and let us
listen.
HON. DR. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The issue that Hon. Khupe raised related to the persons that did not have relevant documents, birth certificates, et cetera due to Gukurahundi. That is what I was responding to say that in our issuance of birth certificates, et cetera, it is regardless of any reason. If you do not have it, we have the mechanisms for you to have it. Thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. Minister, we appreciate the assistance that has been given to cotton farmers in terms of availing the farming inputs. I also understand that cotton has been declared a State commodity. What is
the buying price of cotton for this year, and when do we expect deliverance?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, we are dealing with policy issues and I think the way you crafted your question does not touch on policy issues.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question goes to the Leader of the House, our Vice President Hon. Mnangagwa.
Mr. Speaker, patriotism and the love for one’s country are celebrated virtues the world over. I would want to find out whether Government has any policy in place to ensure that we enjoin those from different and diverse political persuasions to respect national events, for example attending the burial of national heroes, then celebrating our independence and the respect for national ethos as provided for in the Foreword in our Constitution. I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I thank the Hon. Member for the question that he has asked. If I may repeat it because I use one ear as the other one was damaged -[AN HON. MEMBER: You are disabled?]- I am disabled,
yes.
If I understood him, he said attending national events requires patriotism. Does a person commit an offence or a crime by failure to attend national events? No, you do not commit an offence. Patriotism is measured by citizens obeying the rule of law and obeying the
Constitution. We need to be constitutionally committed to our Constitution. We need to obey the laws of our land. Those are the two pillars which guide a citizen to be patriotic to your country. Now, if you are patriotic to your country and there is a national event of your country, that patriotism will compel you to attend national events. If you do not, we do not have laws to prosecute you. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Gonese, earlier on
you requested for a list of Hon. Ministers who have sought leave to be away. The list is as follows: Hon. Prof. J. Moyo, Hon. A. Ndlovu, Hon.
Chinamasa, Hon. Mbengegwi, Hon. Bimha, Hon. O. Mpofu and Hon.
Mzembi.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I wanted to find
out from the response provided by the Hon. Vice President, whether there is that feasibility of coming up with a policy, given that we have some people from different political persuasions, who disregard and denigrate national events. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the primary right
of an individual is entrenched in the Constitution, the right to freedom and the right to choice. So, the question of patriotism is not an entrenched right but it comes as a result of love of country by obeying your Constitution and the laws of your country. If you fail to attend national events, then it is yourself who must examine your own conscience. We have no legal instruments to deal with those who may abstain from national events, but it is expected that when there is a national event, the majority of our citizens would be patriotic enough to attend national events.
A number of Hon. Members having wanted to pose more supplementary questions.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. There is no
supplementary, please sit down. We do not want to belabour the issue that has been so clearly enunciated by the Hon. Vice President. There is no law that compels anyone to attend national events.
Hon. Munengami having contributed without being recognised by the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Munengami, if you
have not been recognised by the Chair, you have said nothing. Secondly, if you wanted a separate question, you should have asked for a separate question. Thank you.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Government has a policy on home ownership, how far have we gone in implementing it since it was introduced? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question. The Government has since written to most of the local authorities, imploring them that where it is possible, those who have occupied homes for more than 25 years, we believe by then they would have paid sufficiently for them to own those properties.
We have been working with most of the city authorities; City of Harare and others. His case in point is Kadoma, I am aware that the councilor in Kadoma has also been proceeding in that same direction but the position of Government is very clear, we encourage people who have stayed in those homes for a long time to own them. It is up to the local authorities to implement that Government policy. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
*HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, the question raised by Hon. Phiri
concerning home ownership; it is true that those letters can be written but you will find some people are not able to get those ownership documents and once a person passes away, the council officials will repossess the property and give it to someone else. What is Government doing? The issue is all about the timeframe. Every time we are being told that it is happening, yet it is the opposite. What is the deadline when a letter is written so that when one is deceased the family does not suffer?
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would
like to thank Hon. Mliswa for the question that he raised. I have come across what he mentioned in Chitungwiza today. Most of the residents are concerned about that issue whereby the parents are deceased and the children remain behind. These properties are being fraudulently sold without benefiting the orphans. I came across such a situation this afternoon.
I want to thank Hon. Mliswa for saying this. We have a Government policy already. The issue is on implementation. What he said is pertinent that we need to come up with time limits to ensure that all councils report and inform us that those who are residents are given their documents. Hon. Mliswa, write another letter to the Council to get a response and I will bring a response to Parliament to ensure that the Council complies. I thank you.
HON. PHIRI: I want to thank the Minister for his answer. We also have Government houses where people have stayed more than 20 years. We have talked about councils, fair enough. What about people who have stayed in Government houses for more than 20 years? Does that policy also apply?
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. Let
me clarify. In terms of housing, there is what we call institutional houses that belong to the State. They are meant to serve Government officers who come and stay in those areas but may be moved to other areas. For example, the police stations and D.A’s offices, and we have got to keep that pool of houses for Government officers who can be sent or posted to those areas. So, you cannot just sell all those houses because somebody has been in there for that long. What we have now done in recognition of that challenge, we have also started a housing scheme aimed at civil servants but we have got cases of other people who were working for Government who are also deceased. We have also taken a compassionate view in terms of how we can assist those people. We have a case in point in Highfield which was read in the past week. We are handling those matters in the best way possible. We do not want to compromise them but at the same time, we cannot give away
Government houses which we will require in the future. I thank you.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. I would also want to thank the Minister for saying people must be given home ownership because they have lived in those houses for a long time. My question is, is there a condition where they are asked to build standalone toilets before they are given home ownership, because right now they are using communal toilets? A case in point is Mabutweni suburb in Bulawayo where people have been asked to build standalone toilets before they are given that home ownership. Is there a thing like that
Hon. Minister? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Hon. Members, do not blame me if I am to send someone out very soon.
I will do it right now so let us keep our cool.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Khupe for her question. Again, the houses or the development that have been done perhaps in the past were core houses. What we take into account is, when you are talking about a house, it is not just about the toilet but about the dwelling. Can we sell that and allow the home owner to develop and put their toilets in place. I do not think the condition to say you must first of all put a toilet is acceptable. I think that is just causing unnecessary problems. As councils, we have instructed even Bulawayo City Council. I would like to say when Dr. Chombo was
Minister of Local Government, I recall he addressed the council in
Bulawayo and asked the council to do exactly the same. It appears at times councils are taking their time because they are surviving out of the rentals that come to them. We think they must actually be more proactive and go into more development of new homes across their areas so that they do not survive out of rentals alone. We want to see incremental growth of our towns and that is what we are working on. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Matambanadzo, what is
the issue. Is it a supplementary question or what? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir
is that Hon. Khupe has been recognised more than five times and what she has been saying has no direction at all. Her contributions do not build the nation and she has caused a lot of confusion here but we need them to respect us. We want them to contribute on issues that build our nation. Mr. Speaker Sir, right now the whole nation is watching what we are doing here. If you look at it there is nothing that is happening. No business is taking place in this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –. For example, the question that she posed to Minister Chombo – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – She was talking about the issue of I.Ds but if you look at it, Hon. Khupe is more experienced than I am. I only just came to Parliament while she has been in Parliament for years but she is facing challenges in making sure people have documents – [ HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –. It is an easy method. – [THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order!] –. What is her problem? Mr. Speaker Sir, personally a person who has come of age and does not have an I.D, an elderly person, I am able to get them I.Ds – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –. So, for those people without parents, they can still get their I.Ds. They were not born by animals. There is no such a person – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – [THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order!] –. I am talking from experience that I have gained in this short period. I have never met such a situation. I am an urban constituency M.P – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]– [THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! Hon. Matambanadzo. Take your seat please] – and at the same time Mr. Speaker Sir –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Order, Hon.
Members! We complain here that every Wednesday we do not have Ministers in the Chambers, we have questions to ask them. Ministers are here but you spend your time just talking – [HON. MEMBERS: Talking nonsense!] - No, no, no. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. ZINDI: My question is supplementary to the issue raised concerning houses. There are people who would have purchased stands from rural councils and the policy says that you are supposed to pay lease fees for as long as a survey has not been carried out. One may die before that and in the end, squabbles arise with relatives because they do not have title deeds.
With the challenges that we are facing in acquiring funds and the long period that the person has paid lease fees, has the Government not yet realised that it is important for them to ensure that the Surveyor General is able to survey the area basing on the number of people who will have paid for them to get a title survey which enables them to get title deeds? This is a challenge in rural local authorities that we represent. We are facing such challenges. People end up fighting over property that is still under lease.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE): I
will try to explain what we have done as Government in ensuring that people have properties and that they do not lose their land. The issue at hand was that the title deeds that guarantee you ownership to property could only be acquired in urban areas. This meant that the smaller towns and other areas did not have the opportunity to own title deeds. People were building houses, under the lease system. We agreed with the Physical Planning department as a Government that we are going to extend the building of houses, be it that the whole country is now building houses; we need to have all the facilities in all designated areas for houses. We need to give people their documentation. This will assist the survivors if the owner of the stand is deceased.
If the owner is a policeman in Dotito whilst he is from Honde Valley and dies, his family can sell the Dotito property and buy another one in Honde. We are now on the title survey and we are giving title deeds in all areas that will be approved by the Department of Physical Planning.
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, on a point of order. While Hon. Minister Kasukuwere responded, he is not the Minister in charge of rural. It is Hon. Abedinico Ncube. It was a rural question.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Housing!
HON. MLISWA: It was a rural question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please! Order Hon.
Mliswa.
HON. B. TSHUMA spoke in Nambya.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. May be I
have not understood the question but I think I heard what he said. He said that there are NRZ houses where people were given title deeds in low density areas but that was not the case in high density areas. Again in Hwange, the Minister sent a team to look into this issue. I would like to say that we are on our way to come and rectify this issue. We are coming next week.
*HON. CHIBAYA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dokora. Where I come from in Gweru-Mkoba, people would like to know if it is Government policy that for those parents who cannot afford to pay fees in cash can go and perform hours of labour at the school to cover for their fees or they take a goat to go and pay for their fees –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Mliswa! Hon.
Mliswa and company over there!
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I want to start by thanking
Hon. Chibaya whom I have faith with and trust that when he grew up as a school child, there was a moment where his parents or guardians assisted to ensure that his fees are paid. His fees could have been paid using the available money or by selling wares such as goats or cows in order to get money to pay fees.
That has not changed in any way except that we have emphasised that if a parent is looking for a market on his or her own, there is no advantage but if it is agreed that there is a central market through the local authority at a particular time, parents can go and sell their livestock, they will be able to have money to pay school fees for their children.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Minister but you did not respond
to the second part of the question.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: Mr. Speaker, we have parents in our
various communities who are experts in building and have their paperwork which categorizes them as Class I or Class II. If such a parent is unable to get cash, he can go to the school and offer his labour rather than for the school to look for another builder. So, they will give the tender to that parent with Class I to build the school. However, if there is no building at that school –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please, order.
Questions without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I am proposing that the time for Questions Without Notice be extended.
HON. RUNGANI: I object.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Question No 1 on today’s
Order Paper was answered in this House last week on Wednesday.
Questions No 2 to No 12, the Ministers are not in the House.
MEASURES IN PLACE TO ENHANCE BUSINESS AND SKILLS
TRAINING
- HON. CHITURA asked the Minister of Small and Medium
Enterprises and Co-operative Development to explain to the House what measures the Ministry has put in place to enhance business and skills training of beneficiaries of various funds in order to ensure that these entrepreneurs succeed and recapitalise such funds?
THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM
ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON.
NYONI): In order to ensure country-wide coverage of business and skills training, an initiative was taken by the Ministry to decentralise activities to provincial and district levels. There, the Ministry has Business and Co-operative Development officers who train all the beneficiaries of various funds with basic business and co-operative skills so that they undertake viable projects. Beneficiaries are being trained in business courses such as; How to start your Business, How to improve your business, Marketing, Production Management, Financial Literacy and Bookkeeping, among others. These are offered to both urban and rural entrepreneurs.
The Ministry mobilised a number of funds that have passed through Parliament. These include the following:
- Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa
(BADEA) fund
The funding worth US$3 million was mobilised from BADEA in 2015 and was to be disbursed through SMEDCO. However, the funds could not be accessed because of sanctions.
- OPEC Fund for International Development (OFID)
Under this project, the Ministry obtained funds worth US7.6 million from OFID for a 5 year period from 2016-2021 for Manicaland, Masvingo and Matebeleland North provinces. Under the agreement, the Government of Zimbabwe will provide US$700,000 to increase the fund to US$8.3 million.
The Government through Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe
Availed US$90 million worth of loan facilities meant for SMEs. The funding facilities aimed at increasing access to sustainable funding for SMEs and cooperatives include:
- Horticulture facility US$10 million
- Cross Border facility US$15 million
- Gold Support facility US$40 million
- Women Empowerment fund US$15 million
- Business Linkages facility US$10 million
The Ministry in conjunction with RBZ will be launching these five facilities on Friday 5th May, 2017 at Rainbow Towers Hotel and I am inviting you all Hon. Members to attend.
The Ministry has engaged various development partners who have signed MOUs with the Ministry to provide funding for various livelihood projects and to mainstream training and skills development where emphasis is given to capacity building in various trades, including market access, skills upgrading and general business management. These include UNDP, SNV
Netherlands, Technoserve, American Friends Service Committee
(AFSC), International Labour Organisation (ILO), Voluntary Services Overseas (VSO), Cluster Agricultural Development Services (CADS) and International Youth Foundation (IFY).
ASSISTANCE TO CIVIL SERVANTS WHO ARE BEING CHARGED
INTEREST BY THEIR CREDITORS AS A RESULT OF LATE
PAYMENTS OF SALARIES
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare what the Government is doing to assist civil servants who are being charged interest by their creditors such as Topics each month as a result of late payment of salaries.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): The pay dates for civil
servants are determined and set by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. Currently, due to the liquidity crunch facing the economy, Government has had to delay and stagger pay dates. All civil servants except the rest of the civil servants and pensioners are being paid on dates within the month worked. All efforts are being done to ensure all civil servants are paid on time to avoid unnecessary penalties with financial institutions and other suppliers. Please note that in the current month, the rest of the civil servants were paid on 2nd may, 2017, which is a great improvement indeed from previous months. We hope Treasury will continue on this positive trend.
In the interim, we urge parties to renegotiate payment dates of obligations taking into account the obtaining salary dates. I thank you.
MEASURES TO ASSIST PEOPLE IN AREAS WITH INADEQUATE
RAINFALL
- MUDAU asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House on the measures the Ministry has put in place to assist people in areas where there was inadequate rainfall and to further elaborate on what Government intends to do as a way of assisting those who lost their crops to wild animals such as elephants.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. Can I seek leave of the House to come back with the answer next week because it is a new question, it did not come to the office.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. So, the question
will be answered next week. The Minister has no response at the moment.
FERTILIZER FOR MR. GODFREY TICHARWA VAMBE
- MAJOME asked the Minister of Agriculture,
Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to indicate when Mr.
Godfrey Ticharwa Vambe would get his five tonnes of Ammonium
Nitrate Fertiliser from the Grain Marketing Board (G.M.B) Harare
Depot which he purchased in 2008 under the Reserve Bank of
Zimbabwe considering that G.M.B had made an undertaking to give him fertiliser as soon as Treasury released the funds.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member. Mr. Speaker Sir, Treasury is yet to release funds to GMB to pay farmers for the inputs owed from 2008. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
MEASURES TO RESTORE EFFICIENCY IN THE PUBLIC
TRANSPORT SERVICES BY HARARE CITY COUNCIL
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to explain the measures taken by the Ministry to restore efficiency of the public transport services of Harare City Council to similar standards that were set by the Harare United Passengers Omnibus Bus Companies in the 1980s.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Majome for asking the question. It may please this august House to note that the ZIM-ASSET strategy is set to introduce mass bus transport system on all our urban roads with the intention to reduce the current dominance on the urban public transport sector by para transit modes in terms of kombis. So far, efforts to implement the strategy have been through the following:
- Capitalising ZUPCO
The sum of $25 million ZUPCO – India Exim Bank bus loan deal, which is currently under negotiations is one step towards the implementation of the strategy by building capacity in ZUPCO. The deal will enable ZUPCO to procure 290 buses from ASHOK Pvt Ltd. 145 of this number will ply intra-city routes. The introduction of high capacity buses on urban routes is expected to drive out para-transit modes without legislating. That action will naturally reduce the number of kombis and illegal operators in the form of mushika-shika on our roads and is expected to have a significant impact on urban traffic congestion.
- Private Sector Involvement through Public Private Partnerships
Mr. Speaker Sir, a private company called A1 Metro Buses has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the City of Harare and had a trial run for the Harare – Mabvuku route.
- City of Harare has constructed holding bays so as to decongest the Central Business District. One has so far been built on Coventry Road in the Kopje area as is now functional. This holding bay caters for kombis which use Copacabana rank. Three more such bays are on the
cards.
- Introduction of shuttling services so as to get rid of illegal pirate taxis. So far, 30 shuttle buses have been licensed to service Harare Central Business District.
Mr. Speaker Sir, these are some of the measures the Ministry together with the City of Harare are taking to restore efficiency of the public transport service with the hope of surpassing the then standards that were set by the Harare United Passenger Bus Company of the 1980s. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank the Hon.
Minister for a very detailed and considered response to my question. My supplementary question is two-fold but I appreciate the efforts that the Ministry is making. My question is, given the imperative for devolution of power to local authorities in the Constitution and given the fact that there has not yet been any disbursement to councils including
Harare City Council of money from public revenues, in terms of Section 301(3) of the Constitution that requires that 5% of all national revenues are given to municipalities, when does the Ministry intend to make that money available so that Harare Municipality can actually support and introduce an urban – public transport system?
Secondly, is the Government going to restore the infrastructure that it took from Harare City Council when it took over the assets of the Harare United Passenger and put them into ZUPCO. Right now it does not service Harare at all.
*HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I would want our Parliament, if it were possible, to be able to consider the issue of coverage of parliamentary debates be done 24 hours per day as the case in other countries like South Africa and Kenya. I am raising a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, because once the live coverage ends, people leave this Chamber. If you observe, you may notice that we do not have a quorum. Those that are seated here are interested in the debates, the majority of them are now out of the Chamber. We may be running the risk of not having a quorum. We are no longer treating Parliament with the respect that it deserves because we no longer have a quorum. We should not only be in the House when the ZBC is in the House. When ZBC leaves, we should also debate.
Parliamentary debates should not be centred on television. Parliamentary debates are there for the development of our country when questions are posed and responded to. The majority of the MPs have left the Chamber, I do not know if they are seeing off the ZBC crew to Pockets Hill or maybe this is just a bad practice that we now have. If you look at the figures, I am not going to raise the issue of quorum, but the figure of the persons that are in here are below the required quorum. The gaps that you are seeing have been created by people that have gone out. We should look into this issue closely – even if it is not ZBC, we should have a mechanism as Parliament to cover our own debates so that our people can see their Members of Parliament in action. The majority of them are cheating. Mr. Speaker Sir, I leave this matter in your hands, because it always happens.
You can see the ministers’ bench is empty and there is only the deputy minister who is now responding to his questions. This is an important issue and I have decided to raise it so that it is placed on record and be given the due respect it deserves. We have a few members of the youth that are aspiring to be ministers, such as Hon. Wadyajena but I do not know which Government will that be, they are sitting in the front benches. I thought I should just leave this matter with you, because it involves the taxes payers’ money and the people’s time – people whom we are supposed to represent. You should put it across to the MPs that this is vital. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Thank you Hon. Chamisa for the pertinent issues that you have raised but what you have left out is that you spend a lot of time making a lot of noise during question time. If you had mentioned that, it would have been worthy. I want to add on and say that a lot of time is wasted saying a lot of useless things. Indeed, what you have said is true that once ZBC leaves, the Ministers also leave this august House. We should not be people that come because the television is present. We should come to the House to represent our constituents. Television coverage should not be an end in itself, parliamentary business is important.
It is true that Parliaments the world over are now having televised coverage. It is not for purposes of visibility to the public but to ensure that they also learn how Parliament works. I will accordingly make the necessary report to the powers that be and your response will come in due course. I thank you for such a pertinent observation.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Indeed, we
should reduce our noise levels and also look into this issue of objections and so on. We must be constructive but we must learnt this from the Westminster type of Parliaments. We should have parliaments for Africans based on afrocentric. They should not be enjoying the fights between oppositions and ruling parties. When you develop a country, there should not be fighting, assaulting one another and setting one another on fire. It is important that we do this. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It has been heard and it is
pertinent. I thank you.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would to thank the Hon. Member for the two supplementary questions. The first one, it is true that local authorities should get five percent of total revenue which the Ministry gets from Treasury. At the moment, we are still waiting to get the funds from the Treasury. As soon as we get the funds, definitely the local authorities will get their five percent.
The second supplementary is on the Government or Ministry’s plans to restore the services by allowing local authorities to carry out the services. As the Ministry’s plan to improve services in local authorities, it has proved that if local authorities are given the opportunity to run the services, things will improve in the local authorities. That is one of the plans that the Ministry is going to implement. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
According to Standing Order No. 56, the quorum of the House should be
70 plus and I think we are not. Pursuant to that, Standing Order No. 56
(2) is very clear in that ‘the Chair shall thereupon adjourn the House without putting any question until the next sitting day’. I therefore, move that in terms of Standing Order No. 56, there is no quorum in the House.
[Bells rung.]
[Quorum formed.]
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity and I also want to thank the Minister for his so eloquent answer. My supplementary question is that, the resuscitation of the efficiency of the United Passenger Bus Company cannot come in without ZUPCO buying locally. What plans does the Ministry which plays the oversight role on ZUPCO or where ZUPCO is embedded – what plans do they have to make sure that ZUPCO buys buses locally in order to enhance the efficiency of the public transport system in particular in Harare?
Hon. Mliswa stood up and counted the number of Hon. Members in the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa, I did not
give you that responsibility.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Hon. Speaker and Thank you Hon. Member for that supplementary question. As I indicated earlier on, the Ministry is trying to revive the ZUPCO services by allowing the local authorities in this case, especially Harare and Bulawayo to allow the local authorities to run the services on their own. So, this is what is happening. Thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, we are only 66 and it requires
71.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I did not give
you that responsibility to count people here.
HON. MLISWA: But in terms of Standing Order Number 56, we must be 71 and we are not.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. We have
just rung the bells and we counted people and we had enough people in numbers here.
HON. MLISWA: I have just done a recount and we are 66.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Who gave you the authority to do that? You may continue Hon. Member.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I have conferred with the Minister and my question goes as follows: what plans does the Ministry have in making sure that ZUPCO buys its buses locally, aware that if they do buy their buses locally, they will both enhance the efficiency of the public transport system, that is mass public transportation and they will enhance the capacity of the local industry by 10% of the manufacturers of buses locally. What plans does the Ministry have to force ZUPCO to buy those buses locally to enhance public efficiency of the public transport and also to capacitate the local manufacturing industry to up its game by 10%?
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, this is a serious issue according to the rules. We are a House of rules and I am citing Standing Order Number 56 again. We are not 71 and business cannot continue because as Hon. Chamisa has said, we are wasting taxpayers’ money.
We are supposed to account for it and we should be leading by example. It is the rules that I am sticking by – there is no quorum and as such, we cannot continue.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Mliswa but at
the same time, I did not give you the right to count. You should have raised your issue and not to go round counting people. Yours is to stand up and call for a quorum when you find that there is no quorum.
HON. MLISWA: I was just trying to be sure. So once again, I stick to my point of order which is on Order Number 56 again.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I hear you.
[Bells rung.]
[Quorum formed.]
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON.
RUNGANI, the House adjourned at Twenty Three Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 2nd May, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
DEATHS OF HON. RONIA BUNJIRA AND HON. KIZITO
CHIVAMBA
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is with profound sorrow that I have to inform the House of the deaths on Saturday, 5th April, 2017 of the proportional representation Member of Parliament, Hon. Ronia Bunjira and on Wednesday, 19th April, 2017 of the Member of Parliament for Chiwundura Constituency, Hon. Kizito Chivamba. I invite Hon. Members to rise and observe a minute of silence in respect of the late
Hon. Members.
All Hon. Members observed a minute of silence.
SWEARING IN OF A NEW MEMBER
THE HON. SPEAKER: On the 11th of April 2017, Parliament of
Zimbabwe received communication from the Zimbabwe Electoral
Commission (ZEC) on the election of the following member of ZANU PF party as member of the National Assembly with effect from 9th April,
2017, Hon. Omar Joosbi representing Mwenezi East Constituency.
Section 128 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that before a Member of Parliament takes his or her seat in Parliament, the member must take the Oath of a Member of Parliament in the form set out in the Third Schedule. Section 128 (2) states that – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible injections.] – Hon. Members on my left, Hon.
Mpariwa! I shall repeat that - take an oath in the form set out in the Third Schedule. Section 128 (2), states that the oath must be taken before the Clerk of Parliament.
I therefore call upon the Clerk of Parliament to administer the oath of a Member of Parliament to Hon. Omar Joosbi.
NEW MEMBER SWORN
HON. OMAR JOOSBI subscribed to the Oath of Loyalty as required by the Law and took his seat – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
APPOINTMENTS TO THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE
AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARIANS NETWORK AGAINST
CORRUPTION
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that following the holding of elections for the Executive Committee
Members of the African Parliamentarians’ Network Against Corruption (Zimbabwe Chapter), the following Hon. Members were elected to the corresponding positions: Hon. J. Maridadi, Chairperson; Hon. F.
Mhona, Vice Chairperson; Hon. K. Paradza, Secretary; Hon. P.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga, Deputy Secretary; Hon. T. Saruwaka, Treasurer; Hon. P. Mpariwa, Deputy Treasurer; Hon. D. Mackenzie
Ncube, Committee Member; Hon. J. Toffa, Committee Member; Hon.
Sen. K. Chabuka, Committee Member and Hon. N. Ndlovu, Committee Member.
HON. NYAMUPINGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to respond to the announcements that you have just made. How do we have
Committees that all women are deputies? - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Nyamupinga, when
elections are conducted, they are conducted in terms of certain rules. It was up to those conducting elections and those present to ensure the balance that you are indicating now. But as things stand, we go by what we were given and wait for the next elections to take place.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. According to
Section 69 of the Standing Rules and Orders and it also dovetails with Section 141 of the Constitution which seeks public involvement in parliamentary processes, I am aware that every Wednesday we have live broadcasting with ZBC. Mr. Speaker Sir, you would want to know that your Parliament is covered every other sitting day by S-FM and this has been going on for a very long time. I am aware that in some parts of my constituency, there are no newspapers but there is radio transmission. But now, S-FM has ceased to broadcast Parliament live on our sitting days. It is with your indulgence that I request that they continue to cover
Parliament on the days that we are sitting so that the people of Chegutu West and other constituencies can continue to be involved in parliamentary processes so that they are not left on the fringes of involvement in Parliament. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. Your concern
is extremely noted and it does enhance the visibility of Parliament. I am advised by the Clerk of Parliament that certain measures are being put in place to respond to the concern that you have just raised. I think things should be in order in the next few days or so. Thank you for that observation.
HON. PARADZA: On point of privilege, I would like to notify this House that as we sit in here, we have 1500 Palestinians who are on hunger strike. Among these, there are 14 Members of Parliament. The Palestinian Embassy in Harare is inviting us all to their Embassy tomorrow at 1200 noon to be with them in solidarity with these Members of Parliament who are on hunger strike in Palestine.
HON. ZINDI: I would like to make a follow up on what Hon. Paradza has just said. Would he please inform the House what the hunger strike is anchored on?
HON. PARADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The hunger strike is anchored on the fact that Israeli authorities are abusing Palestinian prisoners. They are not allowing them to see their relatives. They are denying them medical attention. They are torturing them. They are arresting them willy-nilly and they are not even allowing them to have the basics. This is what we are going to do tomorrow. We are going to the Palestinian Embassy, in solidarity with our comrades in Palestine.
Thank you.
HON. MLISWA: I rise to try to bring to your attention some issues which I think require you to intervene.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of privilege?
HON. MLISWA: It is to do with the death of Hon. Bunjira and Hon. Chivamba. I attended and there was absolutely no support from the Parliament of Zimbabwe in terms of the bus. I do not know what you can do to try and ensure that Parliament does play a part. It was quite disappointing that there was no one to even speak on behalf of the Parliament of Zimbabwe. These are both funerals I am talking about and equally, I think it is important that we must be seen to be a National House of Assembly that has compassion. In having compassion, it was also disappointing not to see MPs, especially those representing those on proportional representation. Here was a Member of Parliament who did her work honestly but we were not there to support. It did worry me as an MP as to what would happen to me. I hope it is not us, coming into the various political parties we belong to. I think the aspect of death and human dignity is very important, in terms of us observing that. I have no doubt that you shall be able to handle this issue, especially after His Excellency even mandated you to go to Mashonaland Central to deal with the issues there. I think you are capable of handling this. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. Why Hon. Mliswa do you want to spoil the good statements by bringing in things that have nothing to do with the substance of your statement? I hope in future you do not do that to destroy your good intentions. I think the point is taken. As regards the bus, our bus is at the garage, unfortunately, and it could not be availed. But that could not have stopped Hon. Members using their own vehicles as you did to be there.
I think your statement is definitely well received. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
This is on a point of privilege on Section 69. I stood because we are troubled by the type of vehicle, the Ford Ranger that we were given and all other vehicles. We realise that these cars are roadworthy but the Government says we should pay for those vehicles. We do not have secretaries in our constituencies and we end up doing the secretary’s work. We are always travelling in our constituencies and if you see people sleeping in this august House, it is because they are tired of travelling. Those vehicles are no longer serving their purposes because I am now doing the work that the secretary is supposed to be doing, because Government said there is no money. However we are expected to pay for those vehicles, yet we are performing Government duty with that same vehicle.
In the Seventh Parliament, the vehicle loans were written off and MPs did not pay for the vehicles. My request is for all the vehicles that we were given not to be paid for and the Government should foot the bill, because the work that we are doing is difficult. We are doing
Government’s work. We were given nothing and we are struggling. We were told that CDF would be availed but we did not get anything. We are now heading for elections and CDF has not yet been released. So, if all of us in this House – the stands that we talked about the other time are not even available. So, my request is that we should not pay for the vehicles but the Government should pay. If we unite as Parliament, I know that we will be able to achieve what we want. That is what I wanted to say. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I allowed you Hon. Member to
speak but this is not the forum to bring up such issues. Secondly, I was disturbed when you were interrogating the budget. The Parliament budget was No 2 and when we came back from Bulawayo, I tasked you to interrogate the budget and urged you to check if your concerns were addressed in the budget. We met at Cresta Lodge and I reiterated the same statement that you need to look into the Parliament budget but when you got to budget item No 2 for Parliament during the Committee of the Whole House, Parliament budget allocation - any debate? The Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. Chinamasa said that he would add $10 million to the Parliament budget which was earmarked for CDF and members applauded and clapped your hands. When any further comments were called for, members did not say anything but today you are standing up to make certain requests. Why did you not put in your requests during the budget interrogations?
Thirdly, we have a Committee on Welfare that is composed of our
Chief Whips. You meet at your caucuses and these issues must be addressed there. They should also be brought to the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders, not in this august House; not here.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: I have a point of order.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Please talk to your Chief Whips. I have responded to you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 4 has been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation address.
Question again proposed.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017
MDC Members having cheered Hon. Kasukuwere and Hon.
Zhuwao as they entered the Chamber.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Members, I have
said in the past it is not comfortable to send a Member of Parliament out of this House. So, please do not invite me to do that.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker, I move that Order of the Day Number 5 be stood over until Orders of the Day Numbers 6, 7 and 11 have been disposed of. Thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE FIRST REPORT OF
THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT ON
COTTON SECTOR PRODUCTION ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. CHITINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise to move a motion in my name that the motion on the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development on cotton sector production which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to find out if it is procedural that a Minister would shake the hands of all back benchers as if they are coming from a prophet.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE FIRST REPORT OF
THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LANDS, AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT ON THE
OPERATIONS OF THE AGRICULTURE AND RURAL
DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY (ARDA) AND COLD STORAGE
COMPANY ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. CHITINDI: I move the motion standing in my name that the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Lands, Agriculture,
Mechanisation and Irrigation Development on the operations of the Agriculture and Rural Development Authority (ARDA) and Cold
Storage Company, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Kasukuwere!
Hon. Kasukuwere went out of the House and came back.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Minister, please take your seat. As you were leaving, there was a point of order regarding yourself. Can you proceed?
*HON. MARIDADI: My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, is that I saw Hon. Minister Kasukuwere moving around shaking hands with the backbenchers. I observed that he only greeted backbenchers on the ZANU PF side and we were wondering as to why we are not also being greeted by the anointed water. He should go back to Prophet Wimbo and say the Hon. Member should also greet Hon. Members from the opposition so that he can retain his position. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Minister, your going around greeting people and so on is unusual – [Laughter.] – I have been here for a while now and I have never seen that happen. May I request that in future, please take your seat as you normally do and we carry on with business. Thank you.
Hon. Kasukuwere having stood up.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: No, hazvibvumirwi.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank you very much for the advice you have given me and also in future, as you are the Chairman of the Committee that was probing, I will also come and greet you on my way out. Thank you very much.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Kasukuwere, can you withdraw the last part of your statement.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I withdraw.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON MINES
AND ENERGY ON THE CONSOLIDATION OF DIAMOND
MINING COMPANIES
HON. DR. SHUMBA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Mines and Energy on the Consolidation of Diamond Mining Companies (S.C. 9, 2017).
HON. MUZENDA: I second.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of order billed from what Hon. Mliswa has said, that there are certain things that as Parliament we ought to do in respect of each
Member by giving honour to each individual Member of Parliament,
Hon. Simon Khaya Moyo who is a very good man was not feeling well. It is well documented and we should have a way that once a Member comes back, the good Lord has been merciful to Hon. Simon Khaya
Moyo and we acknowledge through the Hon. Speaker that we want to welcome him so that the heavens will hear and more years will be added on to his life because he is a good man. I say so because I am genuinely happy in that those Members that are humane are very happy. We take life for granted but it is not partisan. There is no party that owns lite, either – that ZANU PF or MDC owns life. None of the two parties owns life and we should cherish life. We must praise the Lord for this man because he is a good man, across the political divide. Thank you very much.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Thank you Hon. Adv. Chamisa for the kind message. I am sure that it is appreciated by all of us and more importantly, by Hon. S. K. Moyo himself. We are so happy to see you back on your two feet again. May you be blessed accordingly? Thank you. - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]-
HON. DR. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I now present the report on the consolidation of diamond mining companies in Zimbabwe. The diamond industry plays an important role in the socio-economic development of several African countries, given that 65% of the world’s diamonds, with an annual value exceeding 8, 5 billion United States dollars are extracted on the continent. Globally, it is estimated that 10 million people benefit either directly or indirectly from the diamond industry. In Southern Africa, countries such as Botswana, Namibia and South Africa are realising substantial socio-economic gains from the industry. For instance, diamond revenues in Botswana enable all children up to the age of 13 to receive free education and in Namibia the sector contributes 40% towards the country’s annual export earnings and has had a positive socio-economic impact on the lives of the African people.
Zimbabwe’s diamond scenario has sadly been the opposite of what is happening in other Southern African countries. After the discovery of huge diamond deposits in Marange in the mid-2000, the expectation was that diamond revenues would contribute significantly to Zimbabwe’s national development, but alas, it has been an equally huge disappointment. This sentiment was expressed in the 2016 National
Budget Statement by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development when he stated that, “this is a resource that seems to have not benefitted the generality of our people…“
In this context, the Committee on Mines and Energy sought to follow the objectives below:
- To unpack the underlying causes of the poor performance of the diamond industry;
- To analyse the contribution of diamonds to Treasury; and
- To analyse the socio-economic impact of consolidation of the diamond mines.
1. Background on the Diamond Industry in Zimbabwe
Diamonds were first discovered in Zimbabwe in 1903 in the Somabula area. For over a century, the industry remained small with two mining operations by River Ranch located in Beitbridge and Murowa Diamonds in Zvishavane. The sector became a force to reckon with following huge discoveries in Marange in the mid-2000s with projections estimated at 25% of the world’s annual diamond market.
Several companies were awarded special grants to operate in Marange through joint venture partnerships with the Government, represented by the Zimbabwe Mining Development Corporation (ZMDC).
Government had an average of 50% shareholding in all these companies which included Mbada Diamonds, Marange Resources,
Jinan, Diamond Mining Corporation (DMC) and Anjin Investments.
Other mining companies included Kusena Diamonds, Rera, GyeNyame,
Nan Jiang Africa Resources in Bikita and DTZ OZGEO in Chimanimani. The alluvial diamonds were identified over an area covering hundreds of thousands of hectares, hence Government in its wisdom decided to issue multiple licenses to different investors. The policy position of government shifted towards the end of 2015, with the thrust of centralising all diamond mining activities through Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company (ZCDC).
2. Methodology
The Committee held oral evidence sessions with the following stakeholders: the Ministry of Mines and Mining development was represented by its Minister Hon Walter Chidhakwa, the Deputy Minister, Hon Fred Moyo and the Permanent Secretary Professor Francis Gudyanga; Officials and former employees of ZCDC; a representative from Pedstock and the former acting General Manager of Minerals
Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe (MMCZ), Mr. Richard Chingodza.
The Committee had an opportunity to conduct a field visit to Chiadzwa to get an insight into the socio-economic impact of the consolidation process. Unfortunately the Committee did not get an opportunity to interact with ZMDC’s former joint venture partners because of legal disputes between them and the Government of Zimbabwe. The Committee was unable to visit and interact with regional countries such as Botswana and Namibia, due to financial challenges. The proposed visit would have enabled the Committee to get an understanding of the factors behind the successes recorded by the diamond industries in the specific countries.
3. Findings
4.1 Purpose of Consolidation of Diamond Mining Companies
The Committee was informed by the Minister of Mines and Mining Development that, the consolidation process sought to stimulate growth and productivity of the diamond industry, as well as promote transparency and accountability in the entire diamond value chain, with the ultimate result of improved revenue inflows to Treasury.
The consolidation process would also address the following challenges that were inhibiting the growth of the sector;
- Erratic diamond sales.
Mining companies were negotiating contracts for the sales and marketing of diamonds to companies of their choice and these contracts were individualistic in nature and disregarded national interests. Through consolidation, marketing and sales would be conducted through one institution.
- To plug out smuggling and leakages of diamonds.
Allegations were abound of leakages and smuggling of diamonds, with estimates that diamond revenues worth an estimated
US$15 billion could not be accounted for. No explanation has been forth coming as to the Zimbabwean diamonds discovered at the Shanghai Stock Exchange in China. Monitoring and supervision would be easier through one company.
- Lack of mutual commitment.
There was no mutual commitment between government and its joint venture partners. This was emanating from the fact that the joint venture partners were unwilling to expand their operations into the mining of conglomerates and to explore for the kimberlitic pipes, given that alluvial diamonds are almost depleted. Underground operations require huge investment and the joint venture partners were unwilling to invest into those expansion projects. To address this, ZCDC was to embark on underground mining for the conglomerates and kimberlitic pipes.
3.2 Structure of the Zimbabwe Diamond Consolidation
Company (ZCDC)
4.2.1 Legal Status
The Committee was informed by the Minister of Mines and Mining Development that ZCDC is a subsidiary company under ZMDC and is similar in nature to other subsidiaries such Jena Mines, Sandawana Mines and Marange Resources. ZCDC was formed following the expiry and cancellation of mining rights. This had been preceded by the invocation of section 291 of the Mines and Minerals Act where the Secretary of Mines exercised his right of refusal to renew the licenses. This paved the way for Government to establish ZCDC, through the Companies Act and the Zimbabwe Mining Development Corporation Act. It must be noted that this assertion was not the initial presentation of the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development.
Some of the companies such as DMC, DTZ-OZGEO and Kusena accepted the consolidation process but the Government still faces challenges from Mbada Diamonds, Jinan and Anjin.
4.2.2 Shareholding of ZCDC
The initial plan by Government was that ZCDC’s shareholding would comprise of all the mining companies that were operating in Marange, with government retaining a 50% shareholding. ZCDC was to appoint five of the ten board members and the rest would be selected from among the former joint venture partners. Each joint venture partner would get shares based on the net value of assets and liabilities. Government then resolved to expand its shareholding in ZCDC to 100 per cent. Behind closed doors, bilateral negotiations were held between China and the government, resulting in Anjin and Jinan agreeing to a settlement whose matter is still before the Constitutional Court and the rest of the board members will be appointed once a determination has been made. Only then, can ZCDC be able to carry out operations on all the mining concessions in all the mining area.
4.2.3 Corporate Governance
Currently, ZCDC has five board Members and the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga is the acting Chairman. The Committee learnt that all except one of the board Members hail from Manicaland. This is in violation of Section 194 (j) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. The Minister of Mines and Mining Development has continued to prevaricate on the issue of properly constituting the Board of Directors of ZCDC. Secondly, during the Committee’s visit to Chiadzwa, it was noted that almost 90% of the Management Executives of ZCDC were holding their positions in an acting capacity, with almost all of them not having diamond mining experience. To the contrary, the management Executives that were relieved of their duties, two months into the consolidation process, had a combined total of 127 years of experience in the diamond industry acquired from well renowned companies such as De Beers.
4.3 Diamond Production at Chiadzwa.
Production statistics from Marange diamond operations have been on the downward trend for the past five years, largely attributed to a number of factors which include:
- Depletion of alluvial diamonds at most of the concessions;
- Inadequate exploration to determine the quantities and values of the diamonds before formal mining operations began in 2009. The lifespan of the mining operations in Chiadzwa are unknown and current ZCDC operations are not supported by any geological or exploration information.
- The diamond recoveries at the diamond concessions have gone At the height of production in 2011, recoveries stood between 25 to 40 carats per tonne but at the time of consolidation this had gone down to between 5 to 6 carats per tonne.
- Inadequate investment to meet mining obligations. Most of the joint venture companies did not fully fulfil their investment agreements.
- The Portfolio Committee was informed that at the time of Consolidation, all the companies were insolvent, hence impacting negatively on mining operations.
ZCDC officials informed the Committee that their future plans were on ramping up production, through exploration and investment.
The previous annual production projections were for 6 million carats. In
2016, ZCDC managed to produce only just below 1 million carats. In 2015, before the consolidation process, approximately 2,3 million carats were produced.
4.4 Operational Capacity of ZCDC
After the consolidation process was effected, ZCDC management was ordered by the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga to increase production volumes and according to the former company executives, these targets were unrealistic, given the high operational costs and the low grade recoveries. The alluvial diamonds had depleted in most concessions and were near depletion in others. This did not make economic sense to the management that was in office at the time, but they were forced to comply.
After only about 100 days into office, the former management team was dismissed, save for one person, Dr R Nyashanu and yet, some of them had signed 6 year contracts. Most of them were dismissed after undergoing a polygraph test, commonly known as a lie detector. The former employees were asked questions such as ‘are you drunk’, ‘do you operate a syndicate’. The Management executives were not given any reasons for their retrenchment or dismissal. This may constitute an
unfair labour practice as defined in Section 65 of the Constitution. Professor F. P. Gudyanga has continued to refuse to produce the polygraph test results to Parliament. We shall soon be giving official notice of contempt of Parliament in respect to this refusal.
During the site visit, the Committee was informed by ZCDC officials that the company did not have adequate machinery and equipment. As a result ZCDC was hiring and sub- contracting most of its mining equipment and machinery, and operations. To boost its operational capacity, ZCDC secured a loan from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe worth US$ 30 million for recapitalisation. The Company somehow managed to purchase equipment at an auction in January, 2017 worth US$7, 5 million that previously belonged to Mbada Diamonds. The Committee noted that the two mining operations of ZCDC relied heavily on diesel generators because they are not connected to the national power grid.
The Portfolio Committee was informed by the Minister of Mines and Development that ZCDC has embarked into gold mining in GacheGache and has since purchased machinery and equipment for that venture. Although mining has not yet started, ZCDC will be at the centre of those operations. This is contrary to the purpose and the mandate of ZCDC. We found this to be very opportunistic and misdirected by diverting resources from its diamond mandate to gold.
4.5 Diamond Prices
The Committee was informed by the former Chief Executive Officer of ZCDC Dr R. Nyashanu, that the joint venture companies realised different prices for their diamonds. The average price stood at 47, 29 American dollars. The prices realised by the diamond companies is revealed in the graph below:
Figure 1: Diamond Prices (Source: Presentation by Dr Nyashanu to the Portfolio Committee during the Fact-finding Visit to Marange)
The former CEO of ZCDC further highlighted that Mbada Diamonds had the lowest diamond prices yet owned concessions with the richest ore grades. Dr Nyashanu attributed the low prices to either illicit practices or to low grade recoveries.
4.6 Diamond Revenues Submitted to the Treasury
In the 2016 Budget Statement, the Minister of Finance laments the poor revenue inflows to the fiscus from the diamond sector when he states that “there was greater economic impact from diamonds during times of uncontrolled alluvial panning than what is being realised following the introduction of formal diamond mining arrangements.” In the same vein, the former acting General Manager of the Minerals Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe (MMCZ), Mr. Richard Chingodza attributed the poor revenues to Treasury due to incapacity of government representatives that sat on the boards of the joint venture companies to access critical information such as production statistics, board minutes or audited financial reports.
The Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P. Gudyanga, told the Committee that the country lost diamond revenues through leakages and smuggling and the loss will be quantified through a forensic audit being conducted by the Auditor
General. According to the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga, from 2010, Treasury has realised approximately 600 million American dollars as shown in the table below:
Figure 2: Payments to Government from Diamond Sector
(Source: Presentation by Secretary of Mines at the 2016 AGM of
Chamber of Mines)
4.7 Illicit Financial Out-Flows
The Committee received evidence from the former acting General Manager of MMCZ Mr. Richard Chingodza of illicit financial outflows from the extractive sector. Some of these illicit financial flows were aided or facilitated by government officials, in clear violation of government accounting procedures and regulations. The MMCZ lost approximately four (4) million America dollars. The money was transferred to Pedstock, an agricultural company, which further transmitted it to an unknown recipient who resides outside the country. The Director of Pedstock, Mr. Jackson Dror admitted before the Committee that he was being used as a conduit to transfer the money from MMCZ to the unnamed recipient.
The Former Acting General Manager of MMCZ was ordered to release this money by the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development, who is currently the acting board Chairperson of the parastatal. The invoice raised for the money was that it would be used for the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP) Border Control and Minerals Unit operations in curbing leakages and smuggling of minerals.
The Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga admitted to the Committee that the money was sent to the unknown recipient who is a foreigner and his identity could not be disclosed because it will jeopardise the State security operations aimed at curbing leakages and smuggling of minerals. Pedstock made cash payments to the unknown recipient because he refused to open a bank account. Pedstock received a commission for its services.
Furthermore, the Committee learnt that the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga had both personal and official links with Pedstock, where on several occasions he purchased or benefitted from agricultural equipment from or by the company.
4.8 Role of MMCZ in the Diamond Industry
The Minerals Marketing and Corporation of Zimbabwe, has the main responsibility of advising government on the marketing of its diamonds. However, the corporation has been facing a number of challenges in executing its mandate.
Since 2009, the parastatal is without a substantive General Manager and since 2013 has been without a Board of Directors. The parastatal is being run by a one-man illegal board, comprising of the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga and in 2015, he paid himself 35 000 United States dollars as Board fees in violation of the MMCZ Act and basic principles of corporate governance. The Board should have between 6 to 10 members. So legally and technically, MMCZ has no board and board fees should not have been paid to anyone. In the absence of a Board, the annual budgets of MMCZ have failed to get approval, in violation of the Public Finance and Management Act, the MMCZ Act and the Audited Office Act.
Furthermore, the Parastatal has been unable to conduct strategic planning sessions to discuss critical issues, including the Ministry’s intention to transform it into an exploration company. The respective Bill is awaited by Parliament.
The Committee was also informed that MMCZ has paid for some of the Ministry of Mine’s expenses, activities and programs, yet these should be supported by Treasury. Some of these payments have found their way into personal accounts. An example was cited of payments made into the account of Mr. Nzarayapenga whose credentials the
Portfolio Committee did not ascertain but was alluded to during an oral evidence hearing with the Acting General Manager Mr Richard Chingodza.
During the fact-finding mission to Marange, the Portfolio Committee noted the absence of MMCZ at the mining operations yet its officers are visible in other mining operations which include platinum where government does not necessarily have a controlling shareholding.
4.9 Value Addition and Marketing of Diamonds from
Marange
The Committee was told by the former CEO of ZCDC, Mr. Mark Mabhudhu that the country lost a lot of diamond revenues before 2014 due to lack of value addition. The marketers of Marange diamonds, never fully understood its footprint and after feedback from the market, it became apparent that the country had sold some very unique diamonds with fancy colours for a song. The diamonds were not being properly sorted, hence it was easy for them to be undervalued.
The cleaning and sorting of diamonds from Marange is undertaken by a company known as First Element. The Committee was informed by Mr.
Richard Chingodza that First Element is a foreign company that was hand-picked by the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development. Due diligence was not conducted to ascertain its capability and credibility. In the course of time, management at MMCZ noted operational deficiencies which they highlighted to the Executive but no action was taken and the management of MMCZ was threatened not to interfere in the affairs of First Element.
The first anomaly was on the losses experienced in the cleaning of diamonds. This was noted following a comparative analysis with a former company Kenako, which is an indigenous company that used to clean the diamonds.
Secondly, an arrangement was made for the construction of a cleaning facility for the diamonds through a build-operate-transfer arrangement where First Element won the bid, yet it had inflated the costs in comparison with other bidders. MMCZ management disapproved of the agreement, the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga was not happy with it, hence creating tension between the two parties.
Furthermore, management of MMCZ observed that when auctioning diamonds, First Element would claim to have invited 80 or 100 companies when in reality there were just a few buyers, less than five. Upon scrutiny, it was discovered that one company would just be 20 or more people passing out as individual companies. This created room for collusion and transfer pricing, prejudicing the country of substantial revenues.
Another anomaly, was on the auditing of MMCZ’s books. The
Committee was informed that the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga hand-picked an audit firm to scrutinise MMCZ books. However, the audit firm was not appointed by the Auditor General’s (AG) Office and the AG was not even aware that such an operation was taking place. As a result the company’s financial records have been compromised.
4.10 Relocated Mining Community at ArdaTransau
When diamonds were discovered in Marange, several thousands of families were relocated to Arda Transau, a farm on the outskirts of Mutare city. The relocation program began during the era of the joint venture agreements. When it came into existence in 2015, ZCDC has managed to relocate 23 families. However, the company inherited several unfulfilled obligations by the former joint venture companies. The Committee had an opportunity to visit and interact with the relocated families. These were some of their concerns:
- Housing defects: Some of the home owners were experiencing housing defects such as cracks on the floors and walls. This was attributed to poor workmanship and the fact that some of these houses were constructed on wetlands.
- Relocation Allowance/Disturbance Allowance: There were complaints by some of the families that they did not receive their relocation allowance, which was supposed to be given on an individual basis rather than per household. Most of the households are in polygamous relationships.
- Inadequate Space for Expansion: Complaints were raised that children who had reached the age of majority or had married were failing to get land to build their own homes. The half-a—hectare plots they were allocated are inadequate to meet their needs.
- Unemployment: The youth complained they had no sources of
livelihood in the area. This was attributed to lack of capital to start income generating projects.
- Right to Water: Some of the residents complained that portable water to their homesteads had been disconnected. Each household has to pay $8 per month but due to lack of sustainable livelihoods, very few households have the capacity to pay these bills. For households without tap connections, the people walk long distances to access water from wells, some of which is not safe for drinking.
- Lack of Houses: There are some families who were relocated but have not yet been allocated houses. There were allegations that some people were are renting out their houses to persons from elsewhere other than Marange.
- Compensation for Property: A complaint was raised by a former shop owner who had not been compensated for loss of property which he left behind in Marange. The relocated families also highlighted that they were not aware of valuation results of their properties which they left behind in Marange.
- Lack of Feedback:The community expressed disappointment in that government agencies and the mining company did not give feedback regarding their concerns.
In spite of these challenges, the local authority of Mutare, is coordinating an irrigation project, which seeks to empower the community in market-gardening. The project has been constrained by lack of financial resources.
5. Committee Observations
5.1 Purpose of Consolidation:
The purpose of consolidating diamonds mines, whilst it is a noble idea, needs to be supported by best international practices. In regional countries such as Botswana and South Africa, their diamond policy framework allows for independent players to participate in the sector. What was lacking in the former arrangement, with joint venture partners, was strong monitoring by the government representatives who sat on the company boards.
5.2Structure of the ZCDC
5.2.1 Legal Status
ZCDC is not properly constituted. This is a private company formed under the Companies Act and is supposed to superintend over such an important national resource. Secondly, Section 315(2) of the
Constitution clearly highlights that “an Act of Parliament must provide for the negotiation and performance of concessions of mineral and other rights to ensure transparency, honesty, cost-effectiveness and competitiveness’. The Ministry of Mines missed an opportunity to correct the challenges it is facing in Chiadzwa.
5.2.2 Corporate Governance
It is unacceptable that ZCDC should be a subsidiary of ZMDC, when it is clear that the Board of ZMDC has no control over the company as revealed by its absence during the Committee’s visit to Chiadzwa. There is also a conflict of interest in that currently ZCDC is chaired by the Secretary of Mines and ZMDC Board oversees that subsidiary, yet the ZMDC board is answerable to the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development. Such an arrangement clearly violates good corporate governance principles.
Secondly, nepotism and tribalism was the criteria used in appointing the board of ZCDC. All of them hail from Manicaland and there is no illustration of gender representation. This clearly violates sections 17 and 18 of the Constitution which promote gender balance and fair regional representation respectively. Furthermore, it is improper that ZCDC should be run by a management team that does not have any experience in diamond mining. Surely, the country should not expect positive growth and meaningful returns to emanate from such an operation.
5.3Diamond Production at Chiadzwa
The six (6) million carats per annum projections are possible only if the company acquires investment for exploration. Right now, no one knows the quantum or the value of the diamonds in Chiadzwa. Without adequate geological information, ZCDC cannot outline strategic goals for the future. Secondly, in proper governance system, management is supposed to advise the Board on operational issues, but instead, in this case the Secretary of Mines is directing the mining operations.
The Committee would also like to express its disappointment on low productivity at the mines, more particularly due to the fact that it failed to see any diamonds during its site visit. The Committee had high expectations that after rigorous physical searches, it would see the diamonds.
The Minister of Finance and Economic Development highlights that government realised better revenue during times of uncontrolled panning, highlighting the significance of artisanal and small-scale miners to the growth of the sector. Other countries, especially in West Africa have developed sustainable models for integrating artisanal and small-scale miners into the diamond sector. The Minister of Mines and Mining Development needs to consider such models, as a way of empowering and creating employment for surrounding communities.
5.4Operational Capacity of ZCDC
During the fact-finding visit, the Committee observed that ZCDC does not have adequate equipment and machinery and has to hire some of it. It is inadequate for ZCDC to borrow from the local financial market given the high interest rates. ZCDC has to scout for investors but there is low investor confidence, after the ouster of the joint venture partners. It will be difficult for the company to attract the much needed investment. It is also important for Government to be consistent in the implementation of its policies. This is one area that has been raised by investors, in various mining fora such as the Regional Mining Indaba held in Cape Town annually. Secondly, the Committee is concerned that ZCDC is now venturing into gold mining operations in Gache-Gache yet its operational capital is very thin.
5.5Diamond Prices and Revenues to Treasury
The Committee awaits for the results of the forensic audit to determine the extent to which the country may have been prejudiced by the former joint venture partners. Poor revenues to Treasury should also be attributed to delays taken by government to set up cleaning and sorting facilities. A lot of valuable diamonds were sold for a song. Secondly, the blame on the poor revenues and the disparities in diamond prices should be apportioned to both Government and the former joint venture companies. Government had representatives that sat on the Boards of the joint venture agreements and were there to advise government on policy issues or anomalies which were hindering the State from realising its objectives.
5.6Illicit Financial Outflows
It will be very difficult to conduct an audit trail on some of the funds that were siphoned from MMCZ. Pedstock made cash payments to its unnamed source for services rendered. It is clear that government accounting systems were violated and there are no prospects for MMCZ to recover the US$4 million that it lost.
Secondly, State security matters should be financed by the relevant agency, under the intelligence services. It was improper for the
Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development Professor F.P Gudyanga to siphon MMCZ of its resources and expect it to perform effectively afterwards. It defeats the whole purpose of Government’s intentions of developing turnaround strategies to revamp or rebuild ailing or dead parastatals.
5.7Cleaning, Sorting and Marketing of Diamonds
The Committee noted with concern the allegations of diamond losses experienced during the cleaning, sorting and evaluation of diamonds. One of the functions of MMCZ is to advise the Minister on important issues such as this one, so the Minister should take matters of this nature seriously. It is not proper to disregard concerns raised by an institution which has been established to safeguard national interests of government and defend a private company which might not have the interests of the nation at heart.
5.8 Relocated Families
The unfulfilled expectations of the relocated families can only be met once ZCDC is fully operational and making a profit. ZCDC has inherited a number of liabilities from the former joint venture partners, such as wages. ZCDC’s financial position is very precarious and cannot be expected to meet the concerns of the communities anytime soon.
5.9Property Rights Issues
Section 72 (2) of the Constitution states that “every person has the right, …to acquire, hold, occupy, use, transfer, hypothecate, lease or disposes of all forms of property, either individually or in association with others”. The grounds for dispossessing the mining companies of their concessions are weak and indefensible. These were joint venture agreements and if the lease had expired, surely ZMDC could have easily reacted to rectify the anomaly. It appears this was just a weak excuse to get rid of the joint venture partners. It cannot be denied that the consolidation process put a dent on investor confidence into the mining sector. It is important that property rights are respected so that it does not affect investment opportunities for the entire mining industry. When the Committee visited Marange it saw immovable property such as offices, airstrip, employee houses, watch towers, machinery which was lost inadvertently by the joint partners and will now be inherited by ZCDC without paying any compensation.
5.10 Workers’ Rights
These need to be respected in line with the labour laws of the country. It defies logic that the Board of ZCDC retrenches some of its workers and then immediately replace those positions. Retrenchment entails downsizing operations. The former management Executives of ZCDC were relieved of their duties after undergoing a polygraph test. The questions and manner in which the polygraph was applied clearly violates fundamental rights particularly section 51 of the Constitution which talks about the right to human dignity. In other countries, polygraph tests are permitted but adhere to fundamental human rights. In practice, a polygraph test cannot be used as a basis for a finding of guilt, it is used to support other evidence, but in this case, the polygraph tests were used to find the eleven (11) interviewees guilty and a strong reason for dismissal. Zimbabwe’s jurisprudence need to be developed on the application of polygraph test in order to protect the rights of workers.
5.11 Political Interference
The Committee noted with concern that there is too much political interference in the mining of diamonds in Marange, particularly by the
Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development, Professor F.P Gudyanga. Without a proper legal framework which outlines the responsibilities of the various State actors in the diamond sector, the current system is porous and being abused. As a result, the country will not be able to realise meaningful returns from the sector. Whilst, the
Diamond Policy outlines government’s vision in the diamond sector, it is not binding on anyone. Furthermore, it is unacceptable that the Secretary of Mines is directly involved in operational issues at ZCDC, at MMCZ, at ZMDC and at other institutions that a directly linked to the mining industry. The workload is too heavy for one person and this had negative impacts on operations of some of these entities.
I will now hand over to the Deputy Chairperson to give you the recommendations. Thank you Madam Speaker.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO THE FIRST MEETING OF THE LIAISON AND
COORDINATION COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before I call your seconder, I
would like to make an announcement. I would like to inform the House that the Chairperson of the Liaison and Coordination Committee (LCC), Hon. Matuke, has convened the first meeting of the LCC for the year
- The meeting will be held tomorrow, 3rd May 2017, in the Senate Chamber at 1000 hours. All Committee Chairpersons must attend as well as the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of the Women’s Caucus.
HON. MZENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to give recommendations of the Committee.
6 Recommendations
|
Resolution |
Action |
Timeline |
6.1 |
ZCDC should be properly constituted. |
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development should bring before Parliament a bill to regulate diamond mining operations by ZCDC in line with section 315 (2)(c) of the Constitution. |
Before end of December 2017 |
6.2 |
The Board of ZCDC should be dissolved. |
Any board appointments by ZMDC or by the Minister of Mines should be in line with sections 17 and 18 of the Constitution which promotes fair regional representation and gender balance. |
On-going. |
6.3 |
A Board for MMCZ should be appointed and the process of selecting a substantive general manager for the parastatal concluded. |
The Minister of Mines should initiate the process for the appointment of the board of MMCZ and its substantive general manager in order to promote good corporate governance at the parastatal and in the mining sector. |
Before end of June 2017 |
6.4 |
Mining policies for the diamond industry should be clear and consistent in order to attract investment both foreign and local. |
The Ministry of Mines needs to come out clearly on the position of government pertaining to foreign direct investment into mining concessions in Marange |
Policy should be outlined by June 2017. |
6.5 |
Competition should be promoted in the production of diamonds in Zimbabwe. |
The Ministry of Mines should allow independent players to participate in diamond production in various parts of the country, including the Marange concessions. |
By December 2017. |
6.6 |
Investment is needed for exploration of diamonds in Marange. |
The Ministry of Mines need to create a conducive platform that promotes investment into exploration to determine the quantum and values of diamonds in Marange. Evidence-based information will strengthen government’s ability to make decisions on diamonds in Marange. |
On-going |
6.7 |
ZCDC should solely focus |
The Ministry of Mines should ensure that ZCDC focuses only on |
Within a month of |
|
on diamond production. |
diamond production and cease all operations of gold mining in Gache Gache. |
tabling this report. |
6.8 |
Illicit financial outflows from MMCZ should be thoroughly investigated. |
The Auditor General, the AntiCorruption Commission and the Zimbabwe Republic Police, must investigate these illicit financial outflows. |
Before end of June 2017. |
6.9 |
Due diligence should be conducted on companies to be selected for cleaning and sorting of diamonds as well as on buyers who attend the domestic diamonds auctions. |
MMCZ should ensure public tenders forth the cleaning, sorting and buying of the country’s diamonds are floated and due diligence is followed in the selection process in order to minimise leakages and collusion in pricing of the gems |
On-going. |
6.10 |
Allegations of diamond losses through cleaning and sorting by First Element should be investigated. |
A Commission of inquiry should be appointed by the Minister of Mines to ascertain if the country has been prejudiced by First Element and give feedback of its findings to Parliament. |
Before June 2017 |
6.11 |
MMCZ officers should have representation at all diamond operations including those in Marange. |
The Minister of Mines should ensure that all MMCZ officers are visible at diamond mining operations in Marange in order to promote transparency and accountability. |
On-going. |
6.12 |
ZCDC should be managed by skilled personnel with knowledge of the diamond sector. |
Appointments to serve on ZCDC should be based on merit, so that State participation in the industry is justifiable. |
Within three (3) months of tabling this Report. |
6.13 |
Results of polygraph tests should not be used as a basis for finding one guilty or dismissal of workers. |
The Ministry of Mines should reinstate workers that were dismissed due to polygraph test because the practice is not supported by the labour laws of the country. |
By June 2017. |
6.14 |
Property rights in the mining sector should be respected in line with section 72(2) of the |
The Minister of Mines needs to ensure that property rights of investors in the mining sector are |
By December 2017. |
|
Constitution. |
respected in order to build confidence that Zimbabwe is an investment friendly destination. Furthermore, companies that lost their properties as a result of consolidation should be compensated. |
|
6.15 |
Relocated families at ArdaTransau should be compensated for loss of property and be given their relocation allowances on an agreeable formula. |
ZCDC should ensure that all relocated families that lost their properties are compensated fairly and relocation allowance should take into account families in polygamous relationships. |
By June 2017. |
6.16 |
New land should be identified to cater for population growth at ArdaTransau. |
The Ministry of Local Government need to address the shortage of land at ArdaTransau, so that families live in socially and culturally acceptable environments. |
Before end of June 2017. |
6.17 |
Corrective action should be taken on homes that have developed defects. |
Ministry of Local Government should institute an inspection of houses with defects at ArdaTransau to assess the safety and well-being of the tenants. Furthermore, corrective action should be taken on those buildings |
Before end of December 2017. |
6.18 |
A policy should be developed to integrate artisanal and small-scale diamond miners who are operate illegally in Marange. |
The Ministry of Mines needs to copy best international practices, especially from countries in West Africa and come up with a policy position in order to integrate artisanal and small-scale miners in the mining of alluvial diamonds. |
Before end of December 2017. |
6.19 |
Government and political interference in mining of diamonds in Marange should cease forthwith, particularly by the Secretary of Mines |
The Civil Service Commission should recall the Permanent Secretary of Mines Professor Gudyanga in line with section 205 of the Constitution. The grounds for dismissal include his role in aiding illicit financial outflows, poor corporate governance and at times his position has been conflicted. |
Within a month of tabling this report. |
6.20 |
Modern equipment and technology should be installed for searches in sorting areas in order to curb leakages. |
ZMDC should invest in modern equipment for diamond detection rather than conducting body searches which an archaic method of control. |
Before December 2017 |
6.21 |
State participation in the diamond sector should be minimal but the marketing of diamonds should be centralised and remain the preserve of the State. |
The Ministry of Mines should ensure that marketing of diamonds is centralised and is in the hands of the State. |
Before December 2017 |
7 Conclusion
The diamond industry in Zimbabwe needs to be supported by strong and consistent policies and a sound legal framework. This should also be buttressed by the observance of good corporate governance principles by the implementers of these policies and laws. In that way, Treasury and the country will be able to experience positive socio-economic returns from the diamond industry as being experienced in the neighbouring countries.
HON. MLISWA: First of all, we are dealing with an illegal entity. ZCDC is not supposed to be there. How it happens to be there, one wonders because it has not passed the test. So, I would like to begin by saying that we are basically dealing with a mafia that is involved in diamonds. Unfortunately, the Minister of Mines who is supposed to superintend and the Ministry’s failure to superintend also implicates him in all the under-hand dealings which are happening. For the first time, it is important that Ministers become honourable. They do not have to be fired but I think being honourable is to also resign. Minister Chidhakwa must resign because he has totally failed to superintend his Ministry.
How can the Minister superintend a board with one person who is the Permanent Secretary? So, the aspect of the respecting structure is between two people, the Minister and the Permanent Secretary. The role of the Ministry and the Permanent Secretary is to have oversight of the board. So, how can you surely have those you are supposed to oversee sitting on boards? There is absolutely no oversight. Basically, what you have is a mafia approach of people who are looting State resources every day and in looting State resources, they have gotten away with murder. They have been able to make money so that they are able to also bribe people in the process. Professor Gudyanga – evidence has been shown and Parliament has done its part. The Parliamentary Committee has exposed him but he is still working up to now. My question then is; what is the role of the Executive in Parliament recommending somebody who is not up to the job?
The country is being destroyed because we have people who are sitting and doing nothing but stealing. The economy is in its worst state ever. Diamonds were supposed to be a blessing but they are a curse. They are a curse to this nation because we all believed that the turnaround of this economy would really be premised on the diamonds. The President, His Excellency in his own statement acknowledges that $15 billion went missing but what surprises me is that more billions are still missing and still nothing is being done. We talk about ZIM ASSET which is supposed to benefit from the State resources. We talk about domestic mobilisation in terms of resources, how can you really mobilise resources domestically when there is no accountability? The aspect of accountability is truly out of order and whether the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission is doing its job, I wonder. I also wonder whether the ZRP is doing its job. Even the Chinese who we say are our all weather friends are equally disappointed, the so-called all-weatherfriends. If you see the Chinese people not wanting to do business with you, you are the worst economic nation ever because the Chinese can go anywhere but they are refusing to do business with Zimbabwe because of the diamonds.
Intellectual property rights are not respected. Anybody just wakes up one day and you get the military and the police there seizing everything when people have invested money into the country. We talk about having the Zimbabwe Investment Authority trying to sell Zimbabwe to the people in terms of investment. What are they selling when we have examples of people not respecting intellectual property rights? We have the best experts such as the former CEO of ZCDC, articulate, knows his staff and has been in the industry working for DeBeers but if you know what you are doing and if you are going to protect the interests of the nation, they do not want you there. He was fired for no reason. The report clearly indicates how many labour cases that they are going to face. Where is the money going to come from? There is no money. It is very important that we are seen to be walking the talk.
Right now they are mining in Gachekache. They are behaving like
Makorokoza. They go to the diamond mines and they korokoza. Now in Gachekache, they korokoza without achieving anything. So, how really can you do anything tangible in Gachekache when you have failed to mine the God given diamonds that we have?
Money has been seen going into people’s personal accounts. You know that we have citizens who are very law abiding. If I was not a
Member of Parliament, I would really lead a demonstration to
Gudyanga’s office because he does not deserve to be in that office. What is he doing in that office, a Professor? It seems like he went to school to come and steal from the resources of this country. He is a Professor of stealing. He is not a Professor running the Ministry as he should. We have got the aspect of the diamond industry. The smuggling - they have created a system where they benefit from smuggling and basically do not want any security or system in place because they know they will benefit at the end of the day. The price of diamonds right now, listening to the report by the former CEO, was very clear that we can still turn this around if we have people who are professional who have to do it.
We have the aspect of those being relocated Madam Speaker. Surely, do we not have mercy on our people? They were relocated and told that they were going to get everything according to what they wanted compensated. Up to now, they have not been compensated and with the way we are looking at things, by the time that the compensation is due to them, there will be no diamonds left with the way these thieves are stealing those diamonds. So, what security do they have?
We represent people and in representing people, the people that were relocated, how are they able to earn their living without
Government coming in to do what it has to do? We, as Parliament, can play our role Madam Speaker but it is very clear to me that the
Executive is not playing its role. The Executive includes His Excellency and the two Vice Presidents who should oversee the performance of those Ministers who have not had a reshuffle - I do not know for how long. The reason why people are not reshuffled is that they are constantly patronising His Excellency because they know that they have got crimes. These guys are criminals and if there is anything, they must actually spend more money building jails because after some time, they will be languishing in those prisons. We have people who are supposed to be in prison running the Government. How can we really encourage that to happen? From an operational capacity, it was pretty clear that if it is brought back to what it is supposed to be, there is a lot of profit.
With the Community Ownership Trust, money was given; we saw cheques, we saw the President being given cheques by these diamond companies but we have seen nothing in terms of the communities being assisted with that money at the end of the day. You really wonder in terms of reviewing the policy whether the Community Ownership Trust is working? I think the danger in the Community Ownership Trust is especially where diamonds are related where you have so much resources is that they should be housed at provincial level and not at district level. This is because the capacity for the people to manage so much money is not there.
There are certain areas and provinces which do not have diamonds but they grow food, they produce maize and the maize feeds everyone. So, it is equally important that from the Community Ownership Trust, if a provincial development trust was put together, it would ensure that things are happening in a proper way.
Madam Speaker, I want to end by saying we must respect this
Constitution and report clearly, expose the lack of respect for this
Constitution where nothing is implemented according to the Constitution. That is the reason why I rise to say that we are dealing with a dysfunctional company; a company which is not supposed to be registered, a company which is supposed to be closed right now and people are arrested and investigated. Maybe, let them be investigated and arrested, which is critical. I am in fact used to being arrested and then investigated but really it must be investigation to be arrested. So to me, it is important Madam Speaker that we take this report seriously.
I want to thank the Committee for producing such a report without fear or favour – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - For me, it was going to be difficult for anybody else to do that, more-so the report coming from the Government of the day, which really is in the hands of the ruling party. I hope the ruling party will take this seriously. We are also tired of members of the ruling party giving reports and not acting. When they go to the caucuses, they do not do anything. It is about time you also act in your party which is ruling because failure to act, you shall not govern. You shall be punished for the thieving and corruption that is happening. The good Lord is watching you. Act, do not talk. Thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I will be very brief. Madam Speaker, let me first of all thank the Chairman for the very good and bold report. What is happening in Marange can be best summarized in two words - negligence and ignorance. I will try and highlight to you Madam Speaker how negligence is taking place.
When the several companies were merged together, although unwillingly, they were not given time to wind up. They were just told to leave everything. They left equipment, vehicles and houses and certainly there were few guys left to mann and look after the equipment. When you go now, there are several lorries and a lot of equipment which has been vandalized. Existing companies are now cannibalising removing tyres from the vehicles that were left and assisting themselves to do their own equipment which they are failing to do.
There are things like the monitoring and surveillance cameras that were manning the whole area. Nobody is looking after that and they are now dilapidated. The nice houses that were built for the workers, now rats, owls, et cetera are living inside; things are just falling apart. The people that instructed the merger of those companies did not even take time to make sure the remaining equipment is looked after for the benefit of this country. When equipment is imported, it is not for that particular company. It serves this country and it must be protected.
Unfortunately, what is happening there is really a sorry state.
Secondly, when you travel to Marange there are no bridges. This new company that is mining which brings out the issue of negligence, is not even constructing bridges. With all the rains that were falling, each time they want to pass through a stream, they bring rocks, rubbles, et cetera and dump it across the stream and their equipment and trucks cross over. When heavy rains come, they flash off all those rocks into Save River causing more siltation. They go again, bring some more rubble, dump into the river and they cross. They are not interested in building any bridges at all. That is serious level of negligence. EMA is there, they are watching these things. Rivers are being silted and people are without water downstream because of the siltation.
On security checks, diamonds world-over are precious stones. You do not just pass through a diamond mining company as if you are crossing a park. There is thorough checking. There are various equipment or machines that you go through to check whether you have swallowed any diamonds. They have very sophisticated equipment but in Marange, we have two or three security officers with very dirty and torn uniforms. You can see that this is a poor company manning. The way they check, they have to touch all over you. They use very primitive method of security check. You raise your feet and they check under your feet. Where on earth do you search for diamonds in that manner?
The old companies that were pushed out had sophisticated equipment. You go through it and it scans you to check that you have no other stones in your pockets. In the new system, the companies have to use their hands to check if anybody is moving out with diamonds.
That is primitive and not efficient at all.
On the issues of ignorance, the method of mining which is being used now, we have been told before that those diamonds are not from under the earth’s crust, they are alluvial diamonds brought by water from somewhere. The ‘somewhere’ up to now, with all the mining that has been going on, nobody knows where they came from. The alluvial were brought from somewhere. If we were a clever country, the idea is to look for the source where those diamonds came from but up to now, with all these years of mining, nobody knows. If you ask those geologists, they will tell you we are almost certain. You cannot be almost certain after nine years or so of mining. That is serious ignorance on the part of Government. We have mining going on and we do not know the source of those diamonds.
The method of mining, currently they are mining an overburden of about 15 metres waste material, almost the height of this Parliament building. They mine it, put it on tracks and tram it about a kilometer to dump it somewhere just to access one metre of the ore body which they suspect could be having diamonds. Where on earth do you mine like that? We are told those people doing the mining are not professional diamond miners, they have no experience. The previous guys had experience but the current ones could have experience in mining chrome and other minerals. Where would you mine 10 or 15 metres of useless material? You carry it away just to access one metre underground. We were suggesting to them that, why do you not simply push it on the side to access that then you do not need to pay a lot of expenses moving it to the furthest point. That is a very expensive method of mining.
Within the mining area, there is no electricity and yet the grid is just a few kilometers away. They have to run all the equipment using generators on diesel. Honestly, you do not need to be an economist to see that it is not cost effective. Just put a grid across and use it, which will be cheaper. To run 40 or so processing plants using 7, 20, 30 50 kv generators is very expensive and the amount of diesel, you would really need a filling station to be on standby. That is exactly what is pertaining there. Besides, I was asking myself when we went as a Committee, what is the role of ZMDC there and what is the role of Government because everything happening at Chiadzwa is sub-contracted.
Even cleaning the diamonds, they subcontract. The surveyors to survey, they subcontract. To do the geological findings, they subcontract and to do the actual mining, they subcontract. Then you wonder why we have all these officers. Why do we not simply allow a private company to mine and you charge them because we have subcontracted everything from the actual preparations of mining, the mining up to the selling. Even the sorting of the diamonds have to be done by a private company – subcontracted. So what is the purpose of our presence there?
When you are mining diamonds, Madam Speaker, there are four things that they normally call four Cs. There is the clarity, the carratage. The clarity being the smartness of the diamonds but for you to get a smart diamond, you do not need to look for it from the alluvial deposits because the alluvial deposits are mixed with a lot of other dirt. You will spend more money to clean it. You look for a deep seated diamond underground which is not tainted with other impurities. There is the issue of the corners, that is the other C. You cannot mine an alluvial diamond and expect to get money more money because it has rolled over. It was transported by water over a long period of time. So the corners which are important in a diamond, the 16 or 32 corners which normally are important when they are buying them for a high value, if you buy a diamond that has been rolled over, all those corners have been smoothened, it is now a pebble stream. The people mining there are going for the alluvial instead of the deep-seated. When we got there, they were thinking of mining the metamophors, the ones that have been crushed under the rods which are even less properly shaped than those that would be found under a normal environment.
From the Committee’s analysis, as Government, we have no business in mining those diamonds because we do not have the expertise and we do not have the knowledge, not even the care. We would rather have the original companies to mine and we agree on a shareholding. Even if we called back the companies that were mining, they will not be interested because right now, all the equipment is obsolete. Their debtors and creditors have been selling that equipment. Some of it has been stolen; it is really a sore state. For us as Government to be sitting and expecting revenue from that defunct mining operation is just a waste of time. The quicker the Minister of Mines puts his hand on what is happening in Marange, the better. Otherwise, there is no diamond to
talk about now with the current level of expertise that is there in Marange. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. CHIRISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Chairperson of the Mines and Energy Portfolio Committee for presenting such a wonderful report. I also want to contribute but my question is diamonds, diamonds and diamonds which have a very high potential of reviving this economy, unfortunately because of illicit flaws and corruption, this has not happened. Mr. Speaker Sir, there has not been any explanation so that we have knowledge of how much diamonds we have in Marange. Nothing was done. I think this was done purposely so that people will harp harphazardly take away our diamonds to fill up their pockets.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let us take the local authority, the Mutare Rural District Council which should be one of the beneficiaries, there is tax levy that is supposed to go to the local authority, they never received that. The companies also committed themselves to community social responsibilities, that is looking after the communities. This has not happened and I doubt whether the new company will be able to do that because they are not concerned about all these things. The local authority, the Chief Executive Officer of Mutare Rural District Council and his team are not allowed Mr. Speaker Sir, into Marange diamond fields, yet they are the local authority.
They have projects or programmes that they had planned when the diamonds were discovered but they were not sponsored because this was not priority for the companies that were mining. The ZMDC is worse because they are not even considering all those things. Mr. Speaker Sir, the community which was supposed to benefit when they moved out of Marange to go to ARDA Transaal, they did not keep the promises that were made. They did not fulfil the commitment that was made and these people are suffering. We went and sympathised with them. The situation is so pathetic that those people when they agreed to be moved, they thought it was going to be heaven on earth. The promises and assurances that were made were never implemented. They were supposed to get a monthly allowance and were supposed to have own houses for their children built at a later stage but this was not done. There were houses that were kept for the other group to occupy when they moved into ARDA Transaal but the children of the parents who were already in ARDA Transaal have moved into those houses because they have also married. Those small houses cannot accommodate them, their families as well as their parents. Mr. Speaker Sir, Marange diamonds is a sad story.
We also have the $15 billion that the President talked about and up to now, we do not know what happened to that $15 billion which could have covered a lot of ground in terms of reviving the economy and making sure that each and every family would survive in this economic situation. I do not think there would be any need for Minister Dokora to talk about paying school fees with goats because that $15 billion would have covered everything.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Mutare as a city would have benefited from Marange diamonds, but looking at the roads and the state of the city, it is not showing that Mutare is the capital city of Marange where there are diamond fields. I think Government should do something. It should pull up its socks and make sure that Marange diamonds are used for the purpose that everybody is expecting. The Marange community and the local authorities have high expectations. As Members of Parliament representing people, we also had high expectations and this is a sad story.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is EMA that is collecting millions of dollars, but if you look at the state of Marange fields, there are gullies and livestock are falling into those gullies which are not being reclaimed.
The people there do not have clean water and the women suffer most. There is a lot of pollution affecting their health. When this happens, it is mostly the women and children who are affected. I think we have failed as a State. We have failed as a Government to make sure that Marange benefits every community member and the country at large.
The Committee members who visited Marange diamonds had also their expectations and thought they would go and visit where the final diamonds are then packed for forwarding. Mr. Speaker, when people went in, they thought that they were going to see the diamonds but they did not see them. You should have seen how these MPs were searched yet they did not see or touch any diamond. The way that they were searched was an embarrassment, especially that the women MPs were searched by male security guards which I think is not fair because there was no reason to search us for as there were no diamonds that we even saw. So, maybe they were trying to prove to us that their security is tight but to whom because already diamonds are going out of Marange
fields.
Then Mr. Speaker, I have the issue of the Kimberly Process which we are a member of, yet we are supposed to then get statistics and compare what our Ministry has as statistics of diamonds that have already been mined and what Kimberly Process has as a monitoring agent but we do not have that kind of information. As a Committee, I think that we need to also get statistics to also monitor because that is our oversight role to make sure that the statistics are matching the
Kimberly Process and the Government of Zimbabwe. The dismissal of some of the former employees was very unfair because if you look at the way that they were dismissed and the exit interviews that were done using the system which I do not know, it was very new to me and even the terms that were used there were also new to me. To me, this was a way of just saying, you go without anything after all those years that they had worked at Marange Diamonds. I think that it is very unfair because they did not get any packages and their families are suffering.
When this happens, it is the women and children who suffer most.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when we talk of recruitment at Marange Diamond fields, we did not see any locals even for lower grades and people were being bused from other provinces to come and work in the mining fields. I do not think that that is fair for the Marange communities and I think that as Parliament, we must make sure that the recommendations that were made by Hon. Muzenda are followed to the point. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I would want to add my voice and I would want to congratulate Dr. Shumba and
Hon. Muzenda for presenting a report that is flawless in terms of presentation – that is quite eloquent and they did it vociferously and effectively. I want to say that the whole world-over, nations which are endowed with a ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth, it translates into modernisation of their infrastructural development.
I want to say diamonds in particular, that reside in our nation should have translated to the wealth of the nation and I am quite alive and aware to the issue of the late Muammar Gaddafi the Libyan President, in that he would distribute the mineral wealth of his nation to all and sundry in the citizenry of Libya. And, one would wonder why they killed Muamar Gaddafi – those neocolonialists, colonialists and the capitalists. Mr. Speaker Sir, we should have taken a cue from such countries and such leadership style in order to enhance and to develop our nation, utilising what we have to get what we want. Mr. Speaker Sir, I certainly want to touch in particular on the lessons that we have learnt from the ills of the mining in Marange fields so that they are not repeated in various other areas; also aware that we have a lot of other minerals, over 60 minerals of which only 20 have been exploited and less than 20 are being extracted.
What we know as a nation is that we have diamonds, gold, platinum and chrome and the rest of other minerals including lithium and uranium. We are not yet or we have not yet embarked on extracting those resources. What has happened in Marange should not recur in all other areas and how do I hope that it would not recur. We have seen a lot of illicit outflows at Marange and as I speak, we are certainly enriching Mozambique and the Portuguese speaking countries and other Asian countries through Mozambique, through illicit outflows and through revenue leakages from the diamond rich Marange area. The sooner we stopped those leakages and illicit outflows by putting in relevant administration structures that are going to curtail the outflows of our mineral wealth, the better. Howbeit, whatever it is that is occurring at Marange that occurred there that caused the illicit outflows which by the way, President Thabo Mbeki at one point said, Africa was losing about $80 billion worth of US dollars in terms of its minerals per annum. This is one of the ways that Africa is losing its wealth and in particular Zimbabwe. This should not recur elsewhere Mr. Speaker Sir – for a nation as small as Zimbabwe and as land - linked as Zimbabwe is, with an amount of wealth in particular the diamond sector as we have, we should be red, taidayi tese takamenyukira, with a good skin and with a lot of wealth individually and severally in this nation.
Our nation should not be a $4.5 billion economy Mr. Speaker Sir.
I beg to differ when the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development comes here and presents a budget that only speaks to and about tax collection at the border amounting to about $4.5 billion to finance the national budget. Mr. Speakr Sir, we are a way bigger than that because we are endowed with mineral wealth which we are not utilising optimally, effectively and efficiently to its conclusive positive end.
Having said that, the issue of there being a Minister of Mines and Mining Development alone making decisions on such very key and important issues, I believe that it is okay for a nation which is not at a crossroad such as ours; a nation which wants to up its budget to about $50 billion and $100 billion per annum. We need as I have always alluded to, a decision making process which is called a mining indaba when it comes to our mineral wealth, where we can sit – all technocrats and all those fundis in the mining sector to speak about our mineral wealth so that we can optimally utilise them for the good order and benefit of the citizenry of Zimbabwe. Mr. Speaker Sir, yes the Minister can make the final decision on what it is that is supposed to occur in the mines and mineral sector but, to say that we are so impoverished as a nation and we have more than 13 million heads in terms of population and to say we are also endowed with technocrats that are second to none, in the whole of Africa and we are so literate. We are the second highest literate nation in the whole of Africa, if not in the whole world. We need to come together with the Minister of Mines and Mining Development and say what is it that we can do to get out of the impoverishment of this nation by utilising the diamonds, in particular those that resides at Marange.
So, the mining indaba needs to be put in place immediately so that we can help the Minister of Mines and Mining Development, getting us out of where we are, to get us to where we want to be Mr. Speaker Sir. This nation is too impoverished but we are a nation – tirikufa nenyota makumbo ari mumvura. Having said that, infrastructure development, the spaghetti network roads of Hong Kong and America can come into
Zimbabwe if we utilise our God-given diamond resources Mr. Speaker
Sir. It is not too late, having said there is now formulation of other quasi and Government departments, ZTDC and such like, if they are formulated in the right manner; if without delay, the formulation of mining indabas to complement and augment what the Minister of Mines and Mining Development is doing, we are certainly going to get out of the doldrums of poverty and get to the city of Canaan as a nation. Mr. Speaker, we are a nation endowed with milk and honey. It certainly makes me weep on how it is that we are where we are; endowed, as I have said, with ubiquitous amounts of mineral wealth.
Now, we are dealing with the gold sector. As long as the Mines and Minerals Act has not come to Parliament and we are waiting for it like forever, we are going to continue having leakages in the gold sector as well. I speak so today because there has not been any investigation in the gold sector but we are losing more in the gold sector than we lost in the diamond sector. We are losing because the same enfranchisation of those that are marginalised, the Black majority, who today have been commended for bringing 10 tonnes of gold in 2016, who are termed artisanal miners and small scale miners are not formally part of this economy.
Tomorrow we will be standing here debating the illicit outflows caused by gold because of the marginalisation of these people that are on the fringes of economic benefit. Whereas, if we embrace them, embed them in the economy of this nation, bring them together and make sure that we get what we want out of the gold that we have as a nation, we will get out of the doldrums of the economic quagmire that we currently are embedded in.
I make a clarion call today, in the same manner that Members of Parliament have embraced the issue of the gold sector championed by the artisanal miners and also led by yours truly. I make a clarion call here today so that in the future, we will not cry for our gold that would have eloped to other nations. It is sad Mr. Speaker Sir, there is five tonnes of gold accruing to Rand Refinery, from Zimbabwe each month through illicit outflows. I should hasten to say, as a nation we are only crying for about 28 tonnes of gold per annum, when we cannot curtail the illicit outflows going to South Africa, now being refined as South
Africa’s own gold and being sold to multi-nationals in other jurisdictions. It is time we wake up and smelt the coffee as a nation so that each and every one is playing their part to make sure we enrich Zimbabwe to become second to none.
Those claims that are held for speculative purposes is where the small scale miners and artisanal miners are busy eking out living and making sure that they are making you Mr. Speaker and the rest of the
Members of Parliament earn their living at the end of the month. Mind you Mr. Speaker, you are earning your salary, the 4th or 10th of the next month because those artisanal miners and small scale miners would at that time have been evading arrest to try and deliver their gold to Fidelity Printers. However much time it takes them to deliver their gold after the impediments, red tape and bureaucracies that are there embedded in the present Mines and Minerals Act, then at that time, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development only gets his money and gives you out of the royalties 5% from the big miners and 3% from the small scale miners.
I make this clarion call that Hon. Members here in Parliament can come together with one voice and make sure that there is no repeat in illicit outflows to the tune of US$15 billion or more because of the marginalisation of those people that are bringing gold to Fidelity Printers. Mr. Speaker Sir, the small scale miners and artisanal miners who minimally get 15 points per day and maybe a maximum of 100g per month each, will never be engaged and involved in illicit outflows, in particular those that are utilising claims that are held for speculative purposes. Also aware that the ACR and De Beers who left Marange are now entrenched and embedded at Pickstone Mine in Chegutu West
Constituency and they are listed on the Australian and London Stock Exchange, using the mineral wealth deposits, rewards and power of the gold that we have got here in Zimbabwe, and Chegutu West in particular, the small scale miners will work for the good of this nation.
These are the people that plundered our resources in Marange.
These are the same people that we are living to plunder our resources in Chegutu West in particular and Chegutu Administrative District in general and also Zimbabwe in general. We should wake up and empower the small scale miners to immediately extract the resources that we are endowed with and deliver them to Fidelity Printers, as they are doing but we should remove the impediments and we should not arrest them. We should de-criminalise them and we will benefit as a nation without any further illicit outflows and revenue leakages as they have been seen in Marange.
As I conclude, I would like to congratulate the Hon. Members for now taking on board the issue of de-criminalisation of artisanal miners and that they are now going to make a clarion call that there be a moratorium before the Mines and Minerals Act comes to this House. There should be a moratorium for all those artisanal miners that are delivering their gold to Fidelity Printers, that they are not arrested, according to Section 3 of the Gold Act, that criminalises gold possession. Also de-criminalise the Mines and Minerals Act, Section 368, that criminalises prospecting without a licence and get these people incarcerated for 10 years without an option of a fine.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity and I want to congratulate once again Hon. Dr. Shumba and Hon. Muzeda in absentia for a report that is quite pregnant with a lot of very important issues. I thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Let me start by thanking Hon. Shumba for the report that he has brought which was seconded by Hon. Muzenda. We thank the Committee for coming up with such a report which is detailed.
Let me then say that when reports are tabled by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, you find the officials from the Ministry taking notes, meaning that they are serious about the business. When the Committee brought the report, I was anticipating that the officials in the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development would be taking notes to show that they treat the issues being raised here seriously. I believe they have taken it as nothing of consequence, hence their absence.
When the issue of diamonds came to light, artisanal miners were mining and smuggling was rampant. At that time, a lot of money was going round in Zimbabwe. Even in Hurungwe, money was found because artisanal miners were spreading the wealth. When Government descended into the arena to look into the diamond mining, money was never shown in this august House and neither were reports that were positive shown of the positive developments that were taking place in Marange. Maybe a report was tabled during my absence, but even if I was absent I should have seen the report in my pigeon hole but alas, to date I have not seen anything to that effect.
I am not sure if the workers at Marange are being paid from the proceeds, because as Government we should pride ourselves with the God-given diamonds. Diamonds should not be a monopoly to an individual but these diamonds are for the nation and should benefit the nation. We should be able to ensure that there is poverty alleviation as a result of the well-endowed diamonds that we have.
I have observed that we are not going to receive anything meaningful from the diamond mining. Karoi is now better than Mutare
City. There is no evidence to show that there is diamond mining nearby. Mutare is in a sorry state. It has potholes, the roads are in a bad state and the schools are nothing to be proud of as a country. We want to see a change in the state of affairs in Mutare in that regards. I believe that even the communities; the Community Share Ownership Trusts
(CSOTs) have not received anything tangible that was used by the CSOTs. The people in that area are still suffering. If possible, we should be able to uplift the standard of living of the people in Marange so that they could pride our Government of having done a good job.
There is an issue of the board which was raised here. I do not know if it is true that our country which has God-given diamonds, is run by a one man board. Prof. Gudyanga is now the one-man board. He is the owner of the cattle, the headman and also counts the cattle to see if they are all in the kraal. I do not think that is good corporate governance. There is need for separation of roles in that regard so that there are checks and balances.
Recommendations have been made by the Committee. I support the recommendation that there be a board by the end of June. The board should quickly be put in place so that there is good governance. If there are also investigations into the theft that are alleged to be taking place, Prof Gudyanga should be suspended so that investigations can be done. I believe that the recommendations made by the Committee are good for us. There should be the timeous appointment of the board and diamond mining should not be the preserve of Government when nothing is coming to Government. There should be several players involved in diamond mining. There should be several experts that will then compete so that this country can develop.
Hon. Mliswa urged that the Constitution should be respected. In his absence, I do not believe that the Constitution is being followed. If it was being followed we would now have a 50/50 representation. The men would be ashamed and would be giving the 50/50 representation. They should not run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. The men should behave in an honourable manner. Let me thank the Committee and the Deputy Minister who is here taking notes because he does not have the staff to come and listen to what is being debated in this House.
Let me go into the issue of mining, there is Eureka Mine which either folded up or was forfeited, as the member has used the word. We believe mining was stopped and because the mining was stopped, there should be those people that specialise in mining who should put their papers in order so that they are allowed to continue mining. In the end, we are punishing innocent souls because we require money to be raised in order to have taxes. We should not tax people heavily or punish our people. I thank you Mr. Speaker for granting me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 3rd May, 2017.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON. D.
SIBANDA, the House adjourned at Quarter to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday 5th April, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): I have to inform the House that I have received the National Competitiveness Commission Bill [H.B. 6, 2016] from the National Assembly.
INVITATION TO THE ZITF OFFICIAL OPENING
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also have to
inform the Senate that the Zimbabwe International Trade Fair (ZITF) is inviting all Hon. Members of Parliament to attend the ZITF official opening on Friday, 28 April, 2017. Hon. Members are to collect their invitation cards between 1400 hours and 1600 hours in the Members’ Dining during the course of this week. Parliament will not provide fuel and accommodation.
NON ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have
received a Non Adverse Report received on all Statutory Instruments published in the Government Gazette for the month of February 2017.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF THE ADVERSE REPORT BY THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE ON THE LAND
COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 2A, 2016]
First Order read: Resumption of Committee: Consideration of the
Adverse Report by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Land Commission Bill [H.B. 2A, 2016].
House in Committee.
HON. SAMUKANGE: Yesterday we did meet Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira and some members of the traditional leadership and it was agreed that the debate will be adjourned pending the meeting between the Parliamentary Legal Committee and the leadership. The reason being that, I am not going to say this is going to happen, but there is a possibility that the decision or views taken by the chieftainship maybe considered by the Parliamentary Legal Committee. If we are convinced that indeed they are right and we are wrong, we may have to withdraw our adverse report. On the other hand, the other scenario is that our objection maybe amended. The third scenario is that we may stick to our original position and if that happens, we will need to come back and address you on the way we look at the amendment. There will be no point now in debating the issue if the views that I have expressed are going to take place. Yesterday we agreed that the leadership from here will meet the full Committee consisting of the five members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. My suggestion is that the debate be adjourned pending the discussion and determination of issues.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: On a point of order Mr.
Chairman. I think the suggestion is good because there are three possibilities after this meeting that he is talking about. I think it is important that Members in this House also give the Committee their views for possible consideration when they meet the leadership of this House because that will help them to map out the correct position with regards to the proposals that were made in this House. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I rise to agree with what Hon. Samukange, the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Legal Committee has said. I want to confirm that we did meet yesterday and had very amicable deliberations. What I think will be good as Hon. Sen. Mashavakure has said, is not to keep the Hon.
Senators suspicious as to why we are avoiding getting into these issues. I wanted to highlight the issues and also to justify why I think we need to continue talking. I want to bring out the issues why we think we need to continue talking. The first is that when the Parliamentary Legal Committee sits to scrutinise a Bill, to see if it is consistent or inconsistent with the Constitution, the Committee is expressing an opinion and not making a ruling. For the benefit of Hon. Members, this is not a ruling; it is an opinion which they will have expressed. It is up to the House, in terms of the law to say yes, we agree with you or no, we do not agree with you. What the House says is what prevails. They are not directing us but are only advising us. We have had Bills on which the Parliamentary Legal Committee has given an adverse report. One of them is the recent Labour Amendment Bill that was given an adverse report by the PLC but the National Assembly said they do not agree and they passed the Labour Amendment Bill, which is the law that we have today.
I stand here to say as the Senate, we are the ones to say what we want, but in the spirit of good working relationship with our PLC, it may not be necessary for us to sit and reject, maybe they may not have benefited from our views. The practice by the PLC always is that before they issue a report, they invite the key interested parties. In this case, as chiefs we are the ones who moved that amendment. We should have been invited by the PLC. They did not do that and we understand they had gone for more than two months without meeting because they had a lot of work and did not have time to meet stakeholders. As a result, we were not able to express ourselves on the issues that they have written.
We are saying, let us defer because we find the basis upon which they have said the amendments would be ultra vires the Constitution, which means inconsistent with the Constitution. The basis to us, I think if we had been invited, they could have arrived at a different conclusion because they seem to be saying the chiefs have no jurisdiction outside communal land. In our view and interpretation, because it is not correct....
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Sen. Chief, with
all due respect, you are now debating. I thought you stood up to say you are in agreement with the Chairman of the PLC that we defer the Bill until the consultations are through.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. Chairman, I agree we
defer but the House needs to understand why we are deferring. It becomes very suspicious to say let us defer, let us defer. I will debate and conclude and say let us defer. That is where I am going Mr. Chairman. I think it is fair that I explain and I think I am entitled to explain why I am saying we should defer.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Yes, to explain but not
to debate.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I am explaining Mr. Chairman. My explanation is that the whole basis on which they have relied on in making the adverse report to us is not quite correct. To say traditional leaders are only in charge of communal land in terms of the Constitution, that is not correct.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: You are now debating
Hon. Chief because you are now getting into the subject matter.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. Chairman, I think
what I am doing is very correct because we have a right to debate.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: The Chairman of the
PLC has moved that we defer the debate until they consult and you had agreed to that.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. Chairman, I want to
give this flavour before I propose deferment. There is a preamble to it because I want members to understand why. We are saying if you go to the same Constitution, Section 282 (2) is very clear. It says, “traditional leaders will be in charge of communal land including any other land which has been given to them”. So, when you say they cannot be in charge of resettlements, that is not correct in terms of this same Constitution. This clause, in law we say it is permissive; it allows traditional leaders to be in charge of land that is not communal. Beyond that, there should be a law which allows traditional leaders to be in charge, is it not it? That law is there and it is called Traditional Leaders Act; it is already there.
Section 29 of that law says, emplacement of resettlement land under authority is there and there are procedures in that law, then you gazette that area. We have more than 15 chiefs today whose jurisdiction is squarely resettlement areas. We have Chief Chanetsa in Mashonaland West, Chief Beperere in Zvimba - I can go on and on. There is no consistency. The findings that chiefs cannot be in charge - to us, even in reading the Constitution, it is not correct. We are saying let us sit down and discuss this. Mr. Chairman, I rest my case.
THE TEMPORY CHAIRPERSON: Are you then in agreement
that the debate be deferred?
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. Chairman, I agree
that we have more time with the PLC.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUGABE: I thank you for the opportunity to present my maiden speech to this august House. In my presentation, reference will be made to the State of the Nation Address delivered on 6
December 2016 by the Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the
Zimbabwe Defence Forces, His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe. In his address, reference was made to a number of pertinent economic issues, including but not limited to the following: ZIM ASSET, the Ten point plan, domestic violence, Command Agriculture, Ease of Doing Business reforms, the Tripartite Negotiating Forum (TNF), the Women’s MicroFinance Bank; the livestock sector, just to mention a few. My short speech will particularly focus on Command Agriculture in particular, the agricultural sector in general, beef industry, peace and political stability, value addition and beneficiation.
Mr. President, agriculture is the backbone of the economy of this country. All other sectors are linked to this sector. Therefore, this sector should be fully revived in order that other sectors can perform as well. The President, cognisant of this fact, made reference to the need to boost agricultural productivity through the Command Agriculture. Today, thanks to good rains, the Command Agriculture has been a success in most provinces and the nation will not starve. Initial reports from Government and other stakeholders show that there will be a bumper harvest in 2017. This positive development resulting from Command Agriculture and effective distribution of the Presidential Inputs Scheme will mean that Zimbabwe will not import food anymore.
Mashonaland West, like other provinces, received a lot of rains. Some areas leached but the province will make a considerable contribution to the maize harvest in 2017. I want to take this opportunity to thank local agricultural officials in the province for the hard work and effective fertilizer distribution. The funds used in the
Command Agriculture should be managed properly so that a revolving fund is created and continues to support agriculture in our provinces, particularly in the rural areas and small scale farmers.
As I said earlier on, agriculture is critical to the performance of other sectors thus parastatals critical to agriculture should also be revived because they have forward and backward linkages with other sectors. The President, in his wisdom, referred to the need to further impetus to the revival of the dairy industry. In Mashonaland West, there are a couple of initiatives by farmers in this important area of milk production. The President noted that in 2015, milk production reached only 58 million litres against an estimated national demand of 120 million litres. This means that there is a huge demand for milk in the market, hence the need for more players to get into this sector. The President urged new farmers to enter this sector so that by 2020, the nation will be self sufficient in terms of milk production.
In the same vein, the revival of the Cold Storage Commission is critical in the beef production industry. This requires the renovation and refurbishment of abattoirs in Bulawayo, Mutare, Masvingo, Chinhoyi and Marondera. You are aware that Mashonaland West also plays a very important contribution in the production of beef in the economy. Beef production will go a long way in boosting generation of forex as it has a huge market in Europe, Middle East and even regionally.
Agriculture requires reliable sources of water. In his address, the President mentioned the need to revive and expand the existing water sources, dams and other infrastructure, including irrigation schemes.
This is vital since climate change causes a lot of erratic rainfall patterns. You are aware that Mashonaland West has a number of dams which include Biri Dam, Mazvikadei Dam, Lake Chivero, other small and big rivers – all of which are important sources for irrigation water.
The President, lest people forget, mentioned the importance of political stability. He reminded the nation to cherish the prevailing peace and tranquility which is also contributing to the success achieved in all sectors, particularly tourism. He urged us all to find national pride in our core values of unity, hardwork and freedom. He said he is proud of the defence and security forces who also contribute in prevailing peace in Zimbabwe. He finally said, “But lest we forget, let us pray to the Almighty to graciously open the heavens for more rains this season.” I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS TO PROTECT DOMESTIC ANIMALS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on stray dogs and other domesticated animals.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. BHEBHE: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to say just a few words on the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Mawire and her seconder. This motion talks about stray animals. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mawire for moving this motion because she noticed the danger that is caused by these stray animals.
I have heard people talking about stray animals; these are animals that roam around without anyone taking care of them. These animals belong to some people who do not care about them. Animals like dogs move into the bush because no one is taking good care of them. In the bush, they meet jackals and they fight. At times these jackals would be suffering from rabbis and the dogs end up contracting the disease. When they come back home, they can fight with other domestic animals like goats and goats are also infected; that disease will spread to almost all the animals because animals always fight when they meet. The worst part is when people eat meat from their goat or cattle that are infected and they also get rabbis.
So, people should take good care of their animals. The problem is people think of their animals when they want them to do something for them, thereafter they forget about them. We need these animals, especially during ploughing season and that is when we lock them in the kraals. After harvesting we forget about them and they roam around and are hit by vehicles and cause a lot of accidents.
There is an Hon. Member who once spoke about these stray animals but I have forgotten the name. I only remember that, that Hon. Member said we should look after our domesticated animals properly and lock them up in kraals. It should be turned into law that if an animal causes an accident, the owner of that animal should be fined or sent to prison. Maybe the police should enforce this and people should be made aware that these animals must be locked up in the kraals, especially at night.
Some of us use these animals for ploughing and some of us also use their dung as manure if we do not have money for fertilizer. People never listen because people do not want to follow the law because they are not arrested. I think chiefs should be empowered to enforce the issue of looking after the animals properly in their areas. At times dogs, if you are sweeping your yard, because that dog is hungry, it will come to your house looking for something to eat. A lot has already been said
Mr. President.
There are people who are naughty and at times they teach their dogs to hunt but when they go hunting and catch something. The people eat the meat and forget to give the dog some bones. You will realise that those dogs because of they know how and where to hunt, they will go. I remember sometime there were dogs that nearly killed me. When I tried to find the owner and asked the neighbourhood who the owner of those big dogs was, I could not find any. They were just saying they belonged to a neighbour.
People are encouraged to take their dogs for vaccination but they do not do that. You will realise that it is expensive to buy an injection for rabbis. We should not just talk about these things. This should be turned into a law. If we had a law of how people should look after their animals, it was going to be easy. We know that wild animals escape from the game reserves. Long back, there were fences which were erected around the roads to prevent animals from going into the roads but we are the very people who have vandalised those fences. We removed those fences but we are not able to look after our animals. Mr.
President, I just wanted to add my voice to this motion but a lot has been said about stray animals. With these few words, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Mr. President. I also wish to contribute to this very important motion raised by Hon. Sen. Mawire, seconded by Hon. Sen. Machingaifa. I would also like to thank them for raising this motion.
Mr. President, the motion is wider than just dogs; it is animals in general, in Zimbabwe. Wild animals are threatening life and people are no longer safe or feel secure in their homes. That too is a problem and stray donkeys on the streets are a menace on our roads and on highways in particular. Cattle are also a problem and dogs, as has been mentioned in the motion, are a problem too. In the case of dogs, they also bring about disease and wild animals too bring disease. If buffaloes mix or they go to graze in the areas where cattle will be grazing, there is spread of foot and mouth disease.
So the issue really is an important one and I think that this House should take note that we should all be responsible. Mr. President, rights are a responsibility. In the process of trying to exercise your rights, do not stamp on anybody’s rights, as that would make you forfeit your rights. Anyone who does not actually get responsible and actually restraint themselves on their rights, they lose their rights. I am saying this Mr. President in relation to the owners of dogs, owners of cattle and owners of donkeys. Something must be done because they are causing havoc and institutions too like the National Parks are also responsible for animals. They should take care of these animals to make sure that they do not destroy people’s crops and that they do not threaten people’s lives.
So Mr. President, really this matter must be taken seriously and serious legislation must be crafted to ensure that all of us and all of those who own animals like dogs, donkeys and wildlife as well should actually take responsibility to ensure that they are safe and they do not threaten anybody’s life. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the Electoral Act to the Constitution.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Mr. President for according
me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos and her seconder. Mr. President, this motion is very important especially looking at election time. The Hon. Senator urged ZEC to see to it that it is transparent and that it should align some other laws so that we have free and fair elections. We know that ZEC’s mandate is to act like a referee. A referee when he or she is in the playing field, he or she should be very observant and should be able to see where there is foul play. If the referee sees that there is foul play and he does not blow his whistle, it is not good. So, Hon. Sen. Timveos gave us the opportunity to debate and warn ZEC that its house should be in order as it should check for mistakes.
Looking at ZEC in the 2008 elections, they spent almost three months without releasing the results and that was really a bad thing which was done because the world would be watching. How come that ZEC is now a fool when they have gone to school – that they can spend three months without releasing results. It is a very bad sign and ZEC should perform its mandate properly. There are certain things which are not proper because you cannot defeat a person who is defeated in light.
Coming to 2013 elections, the Voters’ Roll was released in a few days, about three or four days before the elections and it is a very bad thing. So, this motion which was brought by Sen. Timveos, I think that we should encourage ZEC to do its work properly especially now that we are going towards elections because it is like a referee. It should look at all the mistakes which are made by people in the playing field and blow the whistle because the world would be watching, but if it favours some other people, it is very bad. Thank you Mr. President.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me the opportunity to say just a few words on the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos and her seconder. Mr. President, Zimbabwe is a country with very educated people and most of them hold degrees. We should not be saying anything about how elections should be run especially in this House. After the Government had noticed that people should conduct elections in their areas, it gave powers to ZEC to conduct those elections and it is good that elections should be held and this is something that is blessed. Even God wants that and even when you watch television, when people are going to vote, they should be free and everything should be made plain for people to choose their leaders freely. What I would like to emphasise is that God is the one who blesses us with leaders, so everything that we do should be blessed by
God. However, if we start meddling like what my colleague has already said that we waited for a long time, waiting for results. This was a very grave offence that was supposed to have been reported to SADC or to the United Nations so our Government should really respect the people who are mandated to carry out those duties.
Government should not interfere with those people and they should not give them roles because in our Constitution, it is stated when the voters roll should be made available and when everything should be done. What we have noticed is that people were being harassed and most of the time people were being threatened. As I have already said, Zimbabwe is full of educated people and I think this is being done deliberately. Being a country like Zimbabwe, with educated people, how can we fail to carry out our own elections. I do not think that is fair because even God will blame us for that.
Let us do what God expects us to do. We should not tell lies. I am sorry Mr. President for saying this but that is the word that I am supposed to use in the vernacular, that if you speak and do things that are not proper, not that people are failing but it is being done
deliberately to continue in your position for a very long time. Going forward, we should do our own things. A lot of people respect us. They know we can do our own things; we are not like other countries which need assistance every now and again but when it comes to our own thing, we should not do the wrong thing deliberately because it does not assist anyone at all. As it is, we should know that we are leaving a history. What type of history are we leaving for our children? Is there ever going to be a time when things are peaceful? What is going to happen if we miss the mark? We are educated people and we have our own traditions and we will not retaliate.
Mr. President, ZEC should be left to run their own affairs. No one should try and interfere with their work. ZEC should carry out its mandate properly for this country that is loved by God. This is a peaceful country no matter how hard people are suffering.
Zimbabweans have been through thick and thin but they will just keep quiet. Even if they go hungry or they are harassed, they will just keep quiet. I do not know, maybe one day God will say enough is enough but that is not what we want. What we want is peace in Zimbabwe. Those who are mandated to do that do not want to do it properly. Maybe they want us to blame the Government that is there. This makes people blame the Government and yet that is not correct. They might have their own agenda. Maybe it is because of corruption – I do not know.
As it is, I do not want to keep on blaming the Government that is there because God does not want that. The Bible says that we should pray for the leaders and our Government. People should not be harassed or beaten up for making their own choice. Those people who are leading ZEC if they do things that are not proper and they do it deliberately, I am sure they will be disciplined in a proper way.
Mr. President, I am happy that we have chiefs and elders in here. I think we should talk to Justice Makarau and others so that we respect the people, the elders and the children because this is a country that we were given by God. Other countries used to visit our beautiful countries but now we are like a laughing stock. If you go to Australia and say you are from Zimbabwe, everyone will turn around to look at you wondering where you are coming from. We used to be a country which had very educated and respected people. Maybe chiefs should also put in a word about how people should be made to make their own choice and not to be harassed. ZEC should not do some of these things deliberately. Maybe they should be invited here so that we talk to them. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD MARRIAGES
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the SADC
Model Law on eradicating Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
Question again proposed.
MOTION
SUPPORT FOR THE NATIONAL SCHOOL PLEDGE
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on advocating for unequivocal support for the National School Pledge by all Members of Parliament.
Question again proposed
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: I stand to add my voice to the
debate on the National School Pledge. I think it is very relevant that children should be aware of our culture. Therefore my plea is that when these children are taught the new curriculum, which is aimed at protecting them and their culture, they should know that they have to recite this pledge in their own languages. In Chiredzi, they say it in their language. In Bulawayo, they say it in Ndebele and in Plumtree, they say it in Kalanga. We think that it should be put in the vernacular languages so that these children are aware of what they are reciting. In some countries they do not allow their children to go to school before they learn about the history of their country. So, I am pleading with the powers that be that this national pledge should be recited in vernacular languages because at times the children are not sure of what is being said. What might happen is that when Zimbabwean students go to other countries to learn, they will go and spread the wrong gospel regarding this pledge. I thank Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for raising such a pertinent motion regarding the school pledge. We have known that the learners from grade zero and even grade one have their poem which they recite regarding the national pledge. The senior learners also have a full pledge which they have to recite thereby showing that this is a pertinent issue regarding our culture. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY POLITICAL
PARTIES
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. GOTO: I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Sibanda for
bringing up this motion. I am going to say a little bit regarding the chaos which happens either at domestic or national level. I am so pleased with this motion because he has opened our minds so that we are able to tell what is good from what is bad. In our country, we have both domestic violence and political violence which is perpetrated by political leaders. What I know is that as political leaders, we have our followers who we should tell to avoid this political violence. In the past, we have seen people whose houses have been destroyed, properties destroyed, some people killed and some maimed. We should tell the people of this country that as people of Zimbabwe we are one, united and of the same family.
We know that since time immemorial, there were wars which were being fought and this started long back even during the biblical times but what we need to know and ask ourselves is, what is causing this violence. I put the blame squarely on the leaders because we incite violence by what we say. When we talk of violence, we say peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with us. Therefore, it starts with me. I say that because if there are parents who teach their children to go and fight back, what it means is that in that household there is no culture. Such people show that they are not good Christians or prayer warriors hence they teach their children to do things that are bad. I am saying we have many political parties in the country. We started as one party but we now have many parties because that is provided for in our Constitution. We are not talking about partisan politics but I am talking about beings.
I remember when I was a Member of Parliament in the National Assembly that there were a number of parties in my constituency. I am not going to mention the name of the constituency but I remember a day when we had a funeral in our constituency and as a Member of
Parliament, I went to that funeral but there were very few people in attendance. The councillor excused himself citing that he was attending another funeral at another homestead. My councillor belonged to a different party from mine but when it came to mapping the progress of the country, we would unite and work together. For example at prize givings at schools, we would divide the chores. One would go to one school while the other went to the other. We really worked hard and in unison, as people who wanted progress in their country. What I noticed was that if we, as the leaders of the people are peaceful, we avoid political violence in our country.
Let me go back to the funeral where I said there were very few people. I noticed that the people who gathered there were people of my party and they were putting on their party regalia. When we started discussing, we agreed that everyone should go to funerals that occurred in our constituency and sympathise with the bereaved. What I noticed was that the deceased was the councillors’s mother and what pleased me most was that when we got to that funeral, there were people from different churches - Methodists, Anglicans and Catholics. When the councillor saw me from afar, he recognised me and welcomed me despite my political affiliation. As a political leader, I was able to mourn with the bereaved and was even given time to speak. I made a speech where I said I was very pleased to note that there were different church denominations gathered at the funeral and that was a sign of unity and nothing could divide us, not even political affiliation because we are one. We paid our last respects to the deceased and it was a peaceful funeral. In some instances when a funeral is of a ZANU PF, the MDCs do not go there and vice versa. My plea is that as people of Zimbabwe, we are one. We are united and should be peaceful.
Whenever people want to incite violence, let us be able to tell each other to desist from such heinous acts because we love peace. Let us avoid domestic and political violence. To tell you the truth, regardless of which party you belong to, come 2018, we will vote for you even if you belong to the other party because what we want is that you will develop our constituency and hence, we have to support you.
Hon. Sen. Sibanda, thank you for such a motion because some of us are not aware that when we are talking of development we are united, but when we are talking about political issues, we are a different person. I also beg my fellow Members of Parliament that when we deal with the youngsters, let us not incite them because we incite these children to be violent. Let me tell you one thing. You may incite these youths to commit violence but tomorrow you may suffer because of what you will have done today.
In Parliament, we have committees like the Gender Committee. Our Chairperson of the Gender Committee is Hon. Sen. Makore who belongs to a different party from mine. In our Committee, we are so united and committed with such people as Hon. Sen. Mabugu and Hon.
Sen. Moeketsi. We do not practice party politics when we travel on
Committee business. When we went to Hon. Sen. Mabugu’s constituency, we were taken good care of without any partisan politics or party affiliations. Under a violent situation, we could have said no, the food has been provided by an opposition member so we might suffer but we did not care about that. We even went to Hon. Sen. Buka’s area and what pleased us was that we were also fed without any partisan divisions. We were one and the same.
As politicians, let us be united and avoid unnecessary political divisions. Hon. Sen. Makore, I am proud of you. You are my
Chairperson despite your political standing but we are one and the same. Hon. Sen. Sibanda, thank you for such a pertinent motion. We should try as much as possible to avoid political and domestic violence. If we read in the Bible, we know what Lot’s children did. I am not going to dwell into that but I am saying Hon. Sen. Sibanda, thank you for the motion. It is a constructive and peaceful motion. I thank you. I know my fellow party members will not applaud me but the truth has been said.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, I can
see you are smiling to this new chapter and the beginning of unity among political parties – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, I move that debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Mr. President, I move that debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th April, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MARAVA, the Senate adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 4th April, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the
Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Mr. President, I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF THE ADVERSE REPORT BY THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE ON THE LAND
COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 2A, 2016]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: Consideration of the Adverse Report by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Land
Commission Bill [H.B. 2A, 2016].
House in Committee.
HON. SAMUKANGE: Thank you Madam Chairperson. I must start by introducing myself. I am Hon. Jonathan Samukange, Member of Parliament for Mudzi South and I am the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. The Parliamentary Legal Committee, just for your information, consists of five senior lawyers. Previously, I indicated that when we take into account the number of service, it is slightly over 100 years of service. For example, I have been in practice for about 40 years.
The Parliamentary Legal Committee considered the amendment to the Land Commission Bill [H. B. 2A, 2016]. After its serious consideration, our main task as the Parliamentary Legal Committee is to consider whether the Bill is consistent with the Constitution; that is the main consideration that we take into account when we deliberate on any Bill or Statutory Instrument that has been presented to us. I believe that all the Hon. Senators have our report before you.
I will begin by stating that Section 152 (3) of the Constitution states that the Parliamentary Legal Committee must examine;
- every Bill other than a Constitutional Bill, before it receives the final vote in the Senate or in the National Assembly;
- any Bill which has been amended after being examined by the Committee, before the Bill receives its final vote in the
Senate or the National assembly;
Further, Section 324 of the Constitution provides for the diligent performance of the constitutional obligations according to the
Parliamentary Legal Committee here-in-after referred to as the Committee; diligently and without delay performed its constitutional role or obligation.
For the above mentioned reasons, the Committee on the 30th March, 2017 at 1010 hours met to consider the Notice of Amendment to the Land Commission Bill [H. B. 2, 2016]. After deliberations on the amendments proposed, the Committee unanimously resolved that an adverse report be issued in respect of the notice of amendments, due to the following considerations:-
- the Constitution clearly reiterates the jurisdiction of the traditional leaders, in particular Section 282 (1) (d) which states, “ traditional leaders have the following functions within their areas of jurisdiction – “in accordance with an Act of Parliament, to administer communal land and to protect the environment”. I must emphasise that traditional leaders have the jurisdiction. In other words, the obligation to administer communal and the inhabitants that are found in that communal land.
- Section 282 (2) of the Constitution states, “except as provided in an Act of Parliament, traditional leaders have authority, jurisdiction and control over communal land or other areas of which they have been appointed, and over persons within those communal lands or areas. It is patently clear where the role of the traditional leaders lies when it comes to the land in Zimbabwe and that is with the communal land.
- Subsection 72 of the Constitution defines agricultural land as follows, “land used or suitable for aquaculture, that is to say for horticulture, viticulture, forestry or aquaculture or for any purpose of husbandry”, but does not include communal land. This is further illustrated by Section 288 which refers to the definition as stated in subsection 72. The definition of agricultural land clearly excludes communal land. This was done in order to clearly define the roles of the two constitutional bodies, that is the Land Commission and the traditional leaders.
- Section 297 (1) (a) of the Constitution states that, “the Zimbabwe Land Commission must ensure accountability, fairness and transparency in the administration of agricultural land that is vested in the State”. Having considered the above provisions of the Constitution, the Committee was of the opinion that the amendments proposed to the Land Commission Bill were ultra vires the Constitution. The role of the Land Commission are manifestly clear as are the roles of the traditional leaders and the two are not expected to interact at any point. Had that been the intention, it would have been clearly spelt out in the Constitution.
For the avoidance of doubt, it is the Committee’s view that the Commission has jurisdiction over agricultural land which traditional leaders have no authority, jurisdiction and control over communal land or other areas for which they have been appointed, noting that the definition of agricultural land in Section 72 excludes communal land, thus rendering the proposed amendment unconstitutional. That is the
Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
It is our view that the Constitution makes it very clear that it defines what is the communal land, defines who are the authorities in the communal land and the authorities in the communal land are traditional leaders, commonly known as chiefs, assisted by headmen and sabhukus. On the other hand, we have agricultural land which the Bill seeks to be administered by the Land Commission, separating the two.
To try to have the two interact can cause untold problems. Apart from that, the Constitution itself makes it clear. It is my submission that unless the Constitution has been amended, the proposed amendments to the Land Commission will violate the Constitution and become unconstitutional. As I have indicated, it will be ultra vires. I urge the Senators to seriously consider the Report. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: On a point of order. Madam President, I am of the view that we defer the debate until tomorrow because we have just got the Report now. We want to discuss it as a House and come back and debate from an informed position. I thank you.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 5th April, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY
THE PRESIDENT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th April, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th April, 2017.
MOTION
ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS TO PROTECT DOMESTIC
ANIMALS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mawire for bringing up this important motion in this august House about stray dogs and other animals.
There are many diseases that are found in animals and these affect people and they are difficult to treat. Such diseases are also found on dogs. Dogs sometimes have anthrax. Usually affected dogs will have a lot of saliva dripping out of their mouths and moving around as if they do not belong to anyone. Such dogs have owners but the owners are not responsible. If such dogs bite an animal, that particular animal should not be consumed. If it is consumed, the disease that was in the dog will be passed on to human beings. We hear that in such and such a district there is anthrax which is caused by these stray dogs.
It is important that Government should look into that so that stray dogs should be confined in a particular place. If they are confined, there is need for resources to cater for the dogs. As owners of animals, we should not increase responsibility on Government by failing to look after our own animals. It becomes very difficult. It is better that stray
animals be killed so that people and other animals can be protected from diseases.
Some other stray animals on the roads are causing road carnage. You find cattle, goats and sheep along the roads. One wonders what has happened to our tradition of herding animals. I am sure all the people who grew up during my time know how to herd. What has caused people not to herd their animals now? The Government has started to protect some roads, particularly Bulawayo roads. In some places where people have been hurt or killed in road accidents, the Government has erected fences to protect animals from straying onto the roads.
What is disappointing is these fences are being vandalised by people, not animals. You will find that the fences have been removed and taken to their people’s to protect their gardens and yards, forgetting that the fence was put there to protect their own animals and their own lives. It is important Mr. President that in any district or place where there are fences, people in that area should know that the fences should remain intact.
Again, what I have observed is even if the fence is there, some people do not close gates. As a result, beasts end up on the roads and cause a lot of carnage. Such kind of behaviour defeats the purpose of putting up that fence. It is the responsibility of the people in the area to ensure that gates are closed for their own protection. We also have wild animals which are dangerous; people forget that. These wild animals end up entering their homes and they will be in danger. The problem with people is that they realise the danger after something bad has already happened. You will realise that when a beast has caused an accident, no one will accept ownership of that beast. It will decay there, but lives of people would have been lost.
Residents of these areas should also realise that when they have animals like dogs, cows or whatever, they should take charge by looking after their animals. This will also protect their animals against diseases if they remain in their own designated areas. This should be a lesson to youngsters so that they grow up knowing that owning an animal means responsibility, you do not have to leave it to go wherever. Animals need care, you do not have to let them roam without anyone managing its movements. If someone does that, it means that person is not responsible enough.
With those few words, I would like to support this motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Mawire. Let us look after our domestic animals so as to prevent carnage and prevent spread of diseases when animals mix with other animals from affected areas. I thank you.
Hon Sen. Musaka having stood to debate after the Hon. Deputy
President had named Hon. Sen. Mawire to adjourn the debate.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Sen. Musaka, I wanted to give the chance to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to come back to the First Order of the Day.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th April, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President Sir, I
move that the House revert to Order Number 1 on today’s Order Paper.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND READING: PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND
DISPOSAL OF ASSETS BILL (H. B. 5A, 2016)
First Order read: Second Reading: Public Procurement and
Disposal of Assets Bill (H. B. 5A, 2016).
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, it is my
singular honour to move that the Public Procurement and Disposal of
Public Assets Bill, [H.B. 5A, 2016] be read a second time.
In line with the provisions of Section 315 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Bill seeks to fundamentally reorganise the way in which procuring entitles such as Government Ministries, parastatals and local authorities acquire goods, services, works, joint ventures and consultancy services from bidding institutions.
In the current challenging economic environment, ensuring efficiency and integrity in public procurement system is essential to ensuring sound public delivery and maintaining citizens’ trust in Government. In order to achieve this, there is need to professionalise and modernise the procurement systems in the country. Mr. President, there is need for Government to tap into the potential of procurement as a strategic policy lever to advance socio-economic objectives which can only be achieved by reviewing the legislative and institutional architecture for the national procurement system.
Mr. President, fostering institutional responsibility and personal accountability in the public sector will help stimulate a healthy business environment and promoting innovation and fair competition.
The Bill will transform the State Procurement Board into a new, non-executive procurement authority tasked solely with providing a regulatory and oversight role as well as setting standards, guidelines and monitoring compliance, thus leading to a separation of the regulatory and operational functions.
The Bill will introduce the ‘Procurement Regulatory Authority’ responsible for setting public procurement standards, regulating, monitoring and evaluating procurement activities which are conducted by procuring entities. Mr. President, the Bill will devolve procurement decision making to procuring entities and set out the procedures to be followed and the steps to be taken in procurement proceedings to ensure fairness and transparency.
Mr. President Sir, some of the key objectives of the Bill seek to achieve the following:
- it seeks to promote competition among bidders;
- it seeks to provide fair and equitable treatment of bidders which will eventually culminate in value for money procurement;
- The amendment seeks to ensure that all public procurement is conducted in a transparent way and finally, and most importantly;
- The amendment seeks to provide the general public with the satisfaction that contract awards follow a fair and transparent process.
With respect to key provisions of the Bill:
Mr. President Sir, I will now outline some of these key provisions of the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Bill.
- Clause 3 (1) deals with application of the Act in terms of which it shall apply to all stages of the process of the procurement of goods, construction works, services by procuring entities and the disposal of public assets by procuring entities.
- Clause 3 (3) deals with that which the Act will not apply to and sets out the relevant services and contracts to which it is inapplicable and provides for procurement by diplomatic or consular missions outside Zimbabwe.
- Clause 3 (6) provides for defence procurement and procurement related to public security or the national interest.
- Mr. President Sir, the objectives of the Act are set out in Clause
4 and include:-
Clause 4 (1) (a) ensuring that procurement is effected in a manner that is transparent, fair, honesty, cost effective and competitive;
Clause 4 (1) (b) Promotion of competition among bidders;
Clause 4 (1) (c) Fair and equitable treatment of bidders to achieve value for money procurement;
Clause 4 (1) (d) promote integrity of, and fairness and public confidence in procurement processes.
- Mr. President Sir, Clause 5 of the Bill establishes the Procurement Regulatory Authority of Zimbabwe whilst Clause 6 provides for functions of the Authority which will include:-
Clause 6 (1) (b) Monitoring and supervision of public procurement systems in procuring entities;
Clause 6 (1) (c-d) issuing technical guidelines and preparing standard documents and templates to be used in connection with public procurement;
Clause 6 (1) (e) developing a framework for e-procurement;
Clause 6 (1) (h) promoting public procurement capacity building;
Clause 6 (1) (k) referring contraventions to appropriate enforcement agencies
Clause 6 (11) Establishment and implementation of an independent review mechanism.
- President Sir, the powers of the authority are set out in Clause 7 of the Bill and these include the power to issue directions of a general nature to procuring entities regarding the manner in which they are to conduct procurement proceedings.
- In terms of Clause 8 of the Bill, the operations of the Authority shall be managed by a board consisting of seven or nine members chosen for their knowledge and experience in procurement, law, management, engineering and other relevant disciplines. Clause 11 provides for reports to be produced by the Authority.
- President Sir, Part III of the Bill deals with responsibility for procurement and Clause 14 decentralises procurement to procuring entities by delegation of the activity to accounting officers that is in
(Clause 14 (2) and members of the entity’s procurement management unit.
- In terms of Clause 15 of the Bill, procuring entities require authorisation to conduct procurement and where a procuring entity fails to obtain authorisation, the Authority may authorise another procuring entity to conduct such procurement on its behalf. Clause 19 provides for shared procurement amongst procuring entities.
- President Sir, Part IV of the Bill deals with procurement preparation and planning and in terms of Clause 20; a procuring management unit shall use only the standard bidding documents produced by the Authority.
- In terms of Clause 20 (2), a procuring entity shall ensure that before initiating procurement proceedings, adequate funds have been budgeted and allocated to the procurement;
- In terms of Clause 22, for each financial year, a procuring entity shall prepare a procurement plan.
- Clause 26 provides for a procuring entity to conduct market consultations; with a view to preparing contract specifications and informing potential bidders of the entity’s procurement plans and requirements.
- Clauses 27 – 29 deal with technical requirements and qualification of bidders whilst Clauses 30 – 34 provide for methods of procurement.
- Procedures for competitive bidding and restricted bidding are provided for in Clauses 35 to 56. Clause 55 provides for contract award in terms of which a procuring entity, having evaluated the bids, shall award the procurement contract to the bidder that submitted the lowest bid which meets the price and non-price criteria set out in bidding documents or offers the most economically advantageous tender.
- Clauses 57 to 66 provide for procurement of consultancy services.
- President Sir, Part IX of the Bill provides for transparency and integrity and in Clause 66, it also provides for information to be provided to rejected bidders and Clause 68 provides for notification of a contract award which shall be published on the website of the Authority.
- President Sir, Part X of the Bill deals with challenges to procurement proceedings and in Clause 74, provision is made for application to review by a review panel. Clause 75 provides for the appointment of review panels and how they shall be composed. Appeals against the decision of a review panel lie in the Administrative Court.
- Clause 79 places the responsibility for contract management of the procuring entity.
- President, Clause 84 of the Bill requires that where the procurement consists of goods or construction works, a procurement contract shall give the procuring entity the right to inspect the procurement requirement before accepting it and all reasonable times to observe and inspect the manufacturer of the goods or the progress of the construction works.
- Clauses 90 – 94 provide for disposal of public assets, with Clause 92 outlining the disposal procedure to be adopted whenever an asset becomes unserviceable, obsolete or surplus.
- Part XIII of the Bill provides for investigations by the Authority. Clause 96 provides for appointment of an investigator by the Authority and in Clause 97, the powers of an investigator.
- President, Clause 99 empowers the Authority to declare a person ineligible to be awarded a procurement contract if the person has been convicted of an offence under the Act or the Prevention of Corruption Act in respect of any procurement proceedings or if any procurement contract between a procuring entity and a contractor has been cancelled or otherwise terminated on account of fraud or persistent underperformance or non-performance of the contract.
Mr. President Sir, with this presentation, it is now my honour and pleasure to move that the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Bill, [H.B.5A, 2016] be now read a second time. Thank you.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to say just a few words in support of the Bill. I read this Bill and from my experience as a civil servant and also as a Minister, I think this is a very big move towards getting it right in terms of procurement. Any procurement system must have a number of key tenets to it which are sustainable. Some of them include timeliness. We are talking of taxpayers’ money and value for money to ensure that State resources are not wasted. We are talking of the need for transparency so as to reduce underhand dealings and corruption. We are also talking of fairness to the bidders. In my view, any system which passes this scrutiny is a system which is going to be sustainable.
The current system, it is well known, had promoted what was now known as ‘tenderpreneurs’; people who were specialising in just submitting tenders, winning them but they have no capacity to supply Government with resources or services which have been tendered for, thereby increasing the cost of doing business and sustaining a system which was to a very large extent corrupt. The current system was also long, there were too many delays and it gave room for malpractices. I therefore welcome this proposed Bill which is fairly devolved and has got a board from what the Minister has described, which is going to ensure that there are checks and balances.
Mr. President, I also welcome the fact that this Bill is going to have some enhanced guidelines in terms of how State assets are disposed of. In some cases, there are so many damaged, unused redundant assets, which are lying in yards and all over the show which are better disposed of. Revenue is raised and then we try and get it right in terms of getting equipment which is necessary for that organisation.
I therefore would like to commend the Minister for doing a good job and bringing to this House a well thought out Bill, which in my view is going to add value to Government. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President. I also rise to support this Bill because it seems like it has got enough benchmarks that if utilised properly will enhance the wealth of the country. However, there is only one snag that I would like to seek for further education. While understanding that Clause 99 is in place to guard against corruption, I seek further education because we may fall into a trap.
This Bill is now a non-Executive Bill.
I wish the Minister could educates us as to which further areas are well looked after because the greatest enermy that has always haunted this country is corruption. I am not seeing enough preparedness of the Bill to fight corruption. It can easily be another snag which has not been fully considered. Otherwise, challenges for procurement proceedings, I think they are well covered in the document. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President. My
discussion is very short. It is an issue on centralisation. When I worked for the Government, everything is centralised. You find that equipment is needed but the peripheral people, where the equipment is going are not involved. As a result, they end up with equipment which cannot fit into their rooms or is not the right one they wanted. I wish the provincial or the district people who are the users of the equipment become involved so that we do not end up with equipment which is procured but lies around because it is not fit for the use.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Mr. President. I also rise to congratulate the Minister for the Bill. Like Hon. Sen. Marava said, I seek clarity on the non-executive nature of it. However, listening very carefully to what he was reading out, if this is the process of fighting corruption, here it is. Really, the system was incompetent. The Minister himself is admitting, he gave that kind of indication that things were not right. Now that the Minister has come up to fight against corruption, I congratulate him. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise also to welcome the move by the Minister to bring this Bill to this House. I also want to touch on corruption Hon. Minister. You said Part 9 deals with transparency, I want further clarity because in all the good things that have been brought here and that is in all our papers that we have agreed to, the only snag is the corruption issue. We have seen and witnessed so many-a- time when those that are supposed to investigate are being blocked by the Executive, especially when they feel that they need to protect a certain individual. So, we want assurance that the Bill will not be tempered with. Also, that the powers of the investigator are not belittled because if you put somebody and say use this paper, do this job and at the same time say do not do it, it then becomes a problem. So, I want to know how much protection we have for the investigator because we can never deal with corruption if those that are supposed to investigate are not protected.
Hon. Minister, I also need some clarity on the Procurement Board because we need to have people that will make sure that we push for the benefit of the country and everybody and not just for the benefit of individuals. Let me give you a case that always haunts me. I saw an excavator at Matopo and the people were trying to grade the road. I asked why they were failing to do so and they told me that the excavator was meant for places where you push ice and not soil. So, when procurement is done, people must know what they are procuring because we never have ice here in Zimbabwe. Why then would anyone procure excavators that are used to push ice?
*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. I also rise to make my contributions on this Bill. First, we know that we already have a Procurement Act in place but the problem was with the officers who were implementing this Bill because they were taking it as their own business. There was corruption and they would benefit a lot from the procurement processes. So, I hope that this new Bill is going to remove all those anomalies. Also, the sentences to be meted out to accused corrupt people will serve as an example to other people that if they break the law, they are going to be persecuted and be given tough sentences. We also need to know that if anybody has benefitted from these corrupt activities, the goods or whatever was acquired through corrupt activities should be confisticated to the State. We hope that this Bill is going to take care of the briefcase sales persons and fly-by-night suppliers who just appear and win tenders yet they do not have the capacity to supply. In most cases this is done in connivance with the procurement officers. This was one of the problems which was letting down the wealth of the country because of corruption. We only hope that this is going to be removed forever.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: In congratulating the Minister on this
Bill, I want to make certain observations. In the Minister’s presentation, the word ‘transparency’ has come out strongly in several places and in my opinion, that is very important. It is apparent that the repetition is designed to treat some mischief and I implore the Minister to ensure from now on that the mischief is treated without reservation, because our experience seems to be that there is not adequate application of the law even where the law exists. We would like that law to be applied without fear or favour. Secondly, the ability and responsiveness of the
Procurement Authority, justice delayed is justice denied. It is quite often that cases go on reported and they go on and on until we lose interest. Can we ensure that justice is not delayed? The Minister also makes a point about censure from deviation from standards. Minister, we implore you that once again the censure should be thorough and immediate. You have also made reference to a contract review panel. That is important but what I might have missed is, at what stage the potential contract or the actual contract is reviewed. Is it an ongoing process during the tender process or is it after the contract has been awarded?
Another comment is on the disposal of public assets. You can simply observe that a number of Government departments have been turned into junk yards full of junk. Often times I am sure that first, there has been extreme negligence in cases where things are not sold at the end of their life time but they are just forgotten. Last but not least, I want to make the observation that good legislation is as good as it is implemented and therefore Minister, I beg you to make sure that your good effort is not turned to waste by neglect.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I also stand to thank the Minister for bringing this very important Procurement and Disposal of Assets Bill to this House. He has been thanked enough in terms of contributions by Senators but I wish to add a few words to this particular Bill because we have had quite a number of boards that were introduced but without
effect.
It is my wish that as you stated that you are seeking fairness and transparency in all these procurement operations, it is so much onerous save to say the agencies that are within this particular Bill that you are going to deal with has to be so strict because sometimes you put a boil on top of the other boil and the ultimate experience is that the result becomes conclusively itchy to the nation and without any advantages.
The element of monitoring and supervision is very important to this particular nation. It has become a culture – this is why Hon. Senators are wailing in terms of experiencing corruption. Corruption is cancerous in the country and it has become a culture which is difficult to treat as was mentioned by the last speaker, Hon. Sibanda.
That you have made an attempt to put something is so much respectful and that step for which you are seeking for standards to be set in terms of expected supervision and mechanisms is so much important to me. We are of the view that this Bill is very important. It is a step despite that it exists as law such as was mentioned here but without effect. Perhaps, now you are putting more teeth to it so that it becomes much more effective. Mr. President, I would not have been fair if I had not stood up to say such few words in support of the Bill. Thank you very much.
+HON. A. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. We thank Hon. Chinamasa for bringing this Bill. We have debated and the Bill is important. My wish is that there should be serious supervision because things stay for long without there being any ownership. The other thing is that those who will be responsible for procurement should not rush into buying things that are substandard because they are cheap but will fail to deliver as per the country’s expectation. We request that there be serious supervision particularly to curb corruption.
We wish Hon. Minister to hear you saying, I have caught some of the people who are corrupt. Do not be afraid Hon. Minister to come here on your own and tell us the thieves. We do not want corruption in Zimbabwe because it is a bad sin and it is only one person who wants to own everything. We therefore request that there be supervision, Hon.
Minister. Thank you very much.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I want Mr. President to
thank all Hon. Senators who have contributed and given me their overwhelming support for this piece of legislation. I also want to say that all of you who have contributed and those who have not, I think do recognise that this is a very important piece of legislation – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Why do I say it is a very important piece of legislation? It is because any entity, no matter what its size is cannot run without procurement. So, it is very important that we recognise this fact.
The other issue also which has come out generally from the contributions and which has been recognised is that we are moving away from the current system which was centralised. All procurement by Bulawayo Municipality or parastatals wherever they are was done through the State Procurement Board, a situation which rendered the system unviable, lack the transparency that we all have spoken about. There were a lot of delays in the procurement and delays meant that even the end cost became even beyond measure just because of the delays. Therefore, it introduced and almost nationalised inefficiency in the way that entities were run and conducted. So, this amendment is to decentralise.
First, what used to be the State Procurement Board will now have the name ‘Regulatory Authority’. It will no longer be in charge of procurement. The procurement will be done and decentralised to procurement entities. In this case, in each line Ministry there will be a Procurement Unit to procure for that ministry. In each municipality, they will set up a Procurement Unit and in each parastatal, the same thing. The Regulatory Authority is going to be responsible for setting standards and guidelines to be followed and complied by all procurement entities. It will also supervise what they do and assess their capacity. If a procurement authority has no capacity, it will not be allowed to procure until that capacity is created and established.
Also, the Bill provides for collective procurement of different procurement authorities if the economies of scale will bring the cost of procurement down. Where there is no capacity from any procurement authority, the Regulatory Authority may direct that the procurement for that procurement authority be done by a different procurement authority.
All that I think is going to be a very positive improvement on the way we have been doing things.
What I want Hon. Senators to take note is that clearly we have been alleging corruption on the part of the State Procurement Board. Right now, it is like we are devolving that problem. It has to be appreciated. We are devolving that problem to the procurement authorities. Corruption will not go away because corruption is committed by human beings. What I think is important is that there will be accountability at the local level. People will know what their municipalities are procuring, the cost and that is the whole purpose of our councillors and also, of our rate payers in the case of municipalities. So, the corruption will not go away. What I think is important is that because of the devolution of the functions, there should be greater efficiency, accountability and transparency - that is our expectation.
As I have always said when the subject of corruption is brought up, corruption is a different kind of crime because the briber and the bribed have both benefitted. So, you do not expect any of the two to talk or report to the police. Most of the time we only understand, appreciate or get to know that corruption has taken place after the horse has bolted and we are lucky to find out which horse it was. What I think is important for me for prevention of corruption is to set up a system that will prevent corruption and deter any person who may want to commit corruption.
That basically is what this Bill is about.
The whole functions of the Regulatory Authority are centered on norm and standard setting, guidelines, overseeing and monitoring whether things are being done in terms of the guidelines. If those systems are followed and complied with, it should go quite a long way to prevent the occurrence of corruption. I hope that it will happen as it is being envisaged. Let me come to the specific contributions.
I thank Hon. Sen. Nyambuya. It looks like he was in the procurement department, wherever he worked before. The clarity is very clear about the abuses and shortcomings of our current procurement system. I support him fully on all the things that he has said. The fact that it was decentralised, meant that there were long delays and long delays meant inefficiency in the procurement entities. I thank you very much for your clarity of thoughts on the issue of procurement.
Hon. Sen. Marava, I think I have already responded with respect to the subject of corruption. Let us not wait until it has happened. Let us introduce systems to make sure it does not happen or when it happens, the system should be able to tell us who did it. Generally, you will find those who indulge in corruption, at whatever level, the first port of call is to destroy the systems. Once you are in an organisation and systems are destroyed, it makes all of you suspects and you are not able to pin point who has done it because there were no systems. Generally, you will find that those who commit corruption, their first attempt is to destroy the systems and at the end it can be free for all. Once it is free for all, it could have been you or them, it cannot be established and those who have done it will probably complain the most so that they distract attention from themselves.
Hon. Sen. Khumalo, thank you very much. I thought you had missed the point. With this legislation, there will no longer be centralisation. We are decentralising to procurement entities. Where you should keep an eye on is on the procurement entities, if we are to mention for example, the Bulawayo City Council. If anything goes wrong at the Bulawayo City Council, they should train the people and set up the procurement unit of properly trained people so that when they procure, they give value to the organisation.
Hon. Sen. Musaka, thank you very much. I think you raised once again the issue of corruption and I think I have adequately covered my thoughts on this subject matter. Hon. Sen. Mlotshwa, there will always be interference. Interference is a form of corruption. What is important is to ensure that whenever there is interference, someone can detect it when in fact it is perpetrated. Otherwise, we cannot say there will be no interference or there will be no corruption. What is important is to set up systems. Whoever is manipulated should be prepared to pay the prize. If you agree to be manipulated and the system exposes you to have been the one responsible, we will not listen to excuses that I was phoned by so and so to do a, b and c. Why did you agree? The blame must lie squarely on the person who is managing the systems.
The example you gave, for instance, of excavator being suitable for countries with ice, it is again either corruption and sometimes not necessarily, it could be lack of capacity. They know they want an excavator but they do not know how to assess one that is suitable for their purposes. It could be tractors for instance, generally those who are the suppliers use all sorts of gimmicks, including a low price. They offer that excavator at a low price and it becomes an attraction and the organisation without batting an eye, they go for that purchase. Later, they find that the tractor that they bought at a very good price has a heater under the seat and the driver cannot drive until the heater is removed. Probably part of cost was the fact that it was fitted with a heater.
Hon. Sen. Chimhini, thank you very much. The sanctions are there, apart from reporting to law enforcement agencies. Some of the sanctions, like I pointed out in my Second Reading speech, include outlawing that person from tendering in future. For those who know, it could be a very heavy punishment. Sometimes they mutate and end up tendering under a different name and so on. That is something the regulatory authority will have to come up guidelines, how you can identify people who are briefcase companies. It is very important also that some of the guidelines should guide the procurement authorities to the extent possible, to avoid middle people.
Obviously, if the qualities are too small, you cannot sometimes avoid middle people but if the quantities are huge go to the manufacturer and obtain your requirements from them to avoid the mark ups that arise as a result of having so many middle people.
Hon. Sen. Sibanda, thank you very much. Again, I agree with you the importance of transparency and about systems like I pointed out. What is important here are the systems. I also agree with you that decisions on procurement should be taken expeditiously and if there are any cases of malpractices, they should be exposed expeditiously. If there are any censures, they should be meted out and any penalties meted out nearer to the commission of the crime and not further away when people have forgotten what the punishment is about.
The review panel is after the award. We have started using it in terms of our procurement. We have resorted - in order to understand some of the prices especially, the multi-million dollar prices. We have resorted to employing a consultant who is skilled in that sector. Let us say it is an energy contract, several millions – as lay people we may not quite understand the items that are involved in the bill of quantities and we have resorted to employing a consultant to comb through the bill of quantities. Sometimes what the suppliers do, they repeat some of the items because all they want is to make money. An item which is just one, they can have it three or four times repeated and charging the same amount.
We have had cases where, through the use of the consultant, we have reduced the contract price quite appreciably and saving some millions in the process. The contract review panel is to assist in doing that. I have taken to heart the issue about disposal of public assets, especially that we have created junk yards of obsolete equipment. That equipment should be disposed of urgently and we should have a policy. We are formulating a policy in the Ministry already on disposal. It was when we originally drafted this Bill, that portion of disposal was not part of the Bill.
The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development had to insist that we incorporate how we dispose of public assets, the procedures to be followed and so on and so forth. I know there is something in the manuals of the Accountant General but we want to incorporate it into legislation. I also agree that any good legislation is as good as it is implemented. We hope that there will be improvement on our implementation.
Thank you very much Senator Makore for your support. I also want to say to Senator Sibanda, I thank you and appreciate your point that there is need for supervision of the procurement process to avoid importation of cheap imports, especially by procuring entities. This will be done and I am sure that we will not be able to have this problem in the future. Of course, thieves must be exposed. It is very important. Whenever there is any deviation from the rules, whether there is any suspicion of corruption, it think those issues should be investigated very quickly.
With these remarks Mr. President Sir, I now move that the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Bill [H. B. 5A, 2016] be now read a Second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND DISPOSAL OF PUBLIC
ASSETS BILL [H. B. 5A, 2016]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 and 2 put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: On a point of order, this may not be the right time but we realise that every time a Bill comes to the House, we will not be having copies at hand because we do not know when the Minister is coming -[HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections]- Please can you give me the opportunity to speak. I am saying we were given the Bill but we did not know the date when the Minister was coming. That is my point. It is important that we know the date the Minister is coming, unless if the Minister only tells the other side because if you are saying I am wrong, it means you knew that he was coming today
THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES (HON. SEN.
MASUKU): Thank you Hon. Member, that is noted.
Clauses 3 to 106, put and agreed to.
First, Second and Third Schedules put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND DISPOSAL OF ASSETS BILL
[H.B. 5A, 2016]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President Sir, I now
move that the Public Procurement and Disposal of Assets Bill [H.B. 5A, 2016] be now read for the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: After
such good work this afternoon and having a very good, honest, transparent and hardworking Minister, I think we should join him as we go outside and chat with him a bit. So, he should adjourn the House and we can have tea with him.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Can I rise on a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Okay.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to thank the hardworking Minister, but I want to follow up Senator
Mlotshwa’s point. What happens is that the Bills are all in the pigeon holes but the frequency or time which they come to be discussed like this, I do not know what is going to happen to the making of the Order Paper? Can it come earlier so that Members know that this Bill is going to come in today? It is not possible for the Minister to give notice again because he has already given notice at the first reading but at the moment now, to say when is the Bill going to come so that we can discuss it and give it due recognition; I just want to support what Hon.
Senator Mlotshwa said and a way can be found. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: That is
a valid and reasonable contribution. Certainly, Hon. Sen. Mumvuri you are right. Like on a Tuesday, you do not know what is coming this week. We adjourned last Thursday and we come in the House, that Bill which we only saw in October last year is now for discussion. So, that is a valid point and I think it is for the administration to ensure that a day or two days notice is given to say next week the following Bills will be on the Order Paper so that those who left them back in Rusape can ensure they bring them that week. Yes, I think it is a system that can work well.
Without spoiling the good work of this afternoon, we have passed a very good Bill and Members will agree with me that even in the absence of our Bills in the pigeon holes, I think we are clear we have done very well. This is good work. Minister, can I call upon you to move for the adjournment of the Senate.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the Senate
adjourned at Twenty Six Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 6th April, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair) ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. SHIRI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Sport and Recreation, Hon. Hlongwane. May you kindly update this House and nation on the latest developments on the national paralympic games?
THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen.
Shiri for the question that she has posed. This coming weekend, on the 7th to 9th of April 2017, we are going to have the national paralympic games in Mashonaland Central Province, particularly in Bindura. The preparations for the national paralympic games are on course. As a Ministry, since Monday, we have dispatched a team of officials led by the Principal Director responsible for Sport Development and Promotion, to situate in Bindura to make sure that they assist with the final stages of the preparations. I must also state that all the preparatory meetings that were held since the beginning of the year, our Deputy Director responsible for the northern region, Mr. Mashatise has been attending and liaising between the local organising committee and the Ministry.
Our parastatal, the Sports and Recreation Commission is also on the ground to make sure that we are able to deliver much better games than those that we delivered last year in Matebeleland South province. It is all systems go; there is cooperation at institutional level between the Ministry, the SRC as well as the Minister of State responsible for Mashonaland Central province office. We are expecting teams to start arriving in the province today until tomorrow morning so that they are on time for the games.
The funding for the games is usually a challenge. As you know, we get the funding from the Treasury. We get the funding as and when we apply for it and often, we run through the predicament of the fact that the funding comes when the games are already closed. In respect of the games for last year as well as for this year, we are working very hard. I have had discussions with Minister Chinamasa yesterday to say that funding has to be released to the games so that service providers are paid on time and that we do not run into problems of provisions for the athletes as well as the officials that are running the games. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, could I ask the Minister of Agriculture to clarify to this House, the various contradictions that we hear about plus or minus $200 million having been put to the command agriculture and the initially advised $500 million.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Mr. President. I thought you were going to protect me Mr. President, because I do not think this is a policy matter at all. However, I am not aware as well where the different figures and contradictions are coming from, unless I am made aware that the contradictions are coming from which source. From a Government point of view, the Vice President responsible for that initiative clarified it that initially, Government had earmarked $500 million but because of the cost of money from other quotas who wanted to contribute to the coffers which was higher than expected, it therefore ended up being about $250 million or so. That is what I know, from a Government point of view.
*HON. SEN. BHOBHO: Thank you Mr. President. I am directing my question to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government policy regarding the assistance that you gave through the command agriculture? What plans have you put in place, now that we are going to have a bumper harvest because Zimbabwe has got a lot of maize? What measures have you put in place to help these farmers who have gladly accepted this gesture, in harvesting the maize?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Indeed, Government has identified a certain number of combine harvesters around the country that are in working condition and those combines that are not in working condition, we are currently taking steps to repair those combines to make sure that the harvesting of the crops is done in time to preserve losses of the said commodity. This will allow speedy going back of farmers into winter cropping. Further to that, Government has also identified working driers around the country and non-working driers that Government has also started initiating to repair them to make sure the crop which does not meet the right moisture is also dried before it is send to the silos. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President. My
question goes to the Minister of Agriculture on the issue of animal husbandry. There is command agriculture but we have not heard how we can go about on livestock command agriculture for livestock farmers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator that if I come here and she does not ask me questions, I do not feel good at all. Surely, you have not heard anything regarding livestock command agriculture because the document has not been finalised yet but it is Government’s intention that the command agriculture scheme be extended to livestock farmers, particularly farmers in Matabeleland South, Matabeleland North, part of Midlands and Masvingo Province where livestock is the mainstream activity of agriculture. I have no doubt that Government is irrevocably committed to making sure that happens as quickly as possible. We have done the document but as I said, it has not yet been approved. Therefore I cannot say out the timelines. What I can certainly say is that Government’s wish is to make it happen as soon as possible. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. BHEBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. Is there a law that is in place, particularly on how the police operate? I am asking this with regards to the people in Bubi where the police were involved in gold panning.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Mr. President. The law is there in the Standing Orders of the Commissioner General of Police and that the police should not be involved in pirating taxes or gold mining. On that, we need to work together as a forum and the community if we see such people doing that and inform the Commissioner General of Police so that the person may be guided or disciplined in line with the law. If we say these people are in charge of implementing the law and they are the ones found breaking the law, it does not work out well. Even the residents can help us so that those who are involved in such activities, we take measures against them so that the law is upheld. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: Thank you very much Mr.
President. Hon. Minister, looking at what you have just said, I see that the police are being allowed by you to be involved in such activities. It seems this policy is double-edged. If you do not allow that, the police would not be involved in such activities. We do not want to have the police at all because you have corrupted them. As peacemakers, you have allowed them to be involved in that. Even if you see them doing such activities, you will not arrest them. What are you going to do?
HON. MGUNI: I thank you Mr. President. What is good is that everyone who has been chosen by the people, either here in the Senate or in the National Assembly, has a right to correct anomalies. What she is saying is good but I believe that she has seen that those who were involved initially in Bubi we arrested and they have since been discharged from the service. If we find a police officer involved in such activities, we discharge them from service. We do not allow them to be involved in corrupt activities. If an officer disobeys the law, we will reprimand them. We have laws to correct such anomalies. We are there for them.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. There are officers called neighbourhood watch who work within districts arresting criminals. From my observation, they are not incentivised. What programmes do you have as Government to help these people?
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): We started a new programme in Kariba just last week which we call “Police is the community and the community is police.” This programme involves the police working with the community in their areas. It is important that there be people who come from the communities who should be involved in police programmes to see what activities are happening, what needs to be done and the challenges. This will enable the community and police to work together and assist where there are challenges.
We have seen that these people are very helpful. Some of them have got the requisite qualifications and age and we are incentivising them. We have recruited them to join the police force. Some are old and do not have the requisite qualifications. We sat down with them and highlighted this. They understand this but we go a step further and give them uniforms and shoes to wear during their voluntary operations.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. Do you have a policy that allows our police to stop commuter omnibuses and small vehicles using spikes? Is it lawful in this country?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): A boom gate, a spike, a drum and a mobile plastic wall which is usually yellow are all called security barriers. They are used to stop or control traffic – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- The bone of contention is how they are put on the road. Spikes should be laid on the road so that an offender or any motorist stops and obey what the police want.
However, I have physically gone to where the police have been carrying the spikes. I have seen some taxi drivers driving over the spike which is laid and he will be carrying passengers. He may run for a distance with punctured wheels whilst the passengers are in there. You will see how those passengers are traumatised. I think that we need to educate the nation that they should not always try to break the law. When the police stops you, stop and comply. That will make no conflict between the police and the society. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: A few days ago, I actually saw a police throwing a spike whilst the commuter omnibus was moving. The omnibus swerved and almost killed people. Is that how it is mearnt to be?
HON. MGUNI: We are in a world where people can capture a lot of incidences through the gadgets they are carrying. We have already dismissed a lot of police officers through the help of the public when they record indecent acts which are not professional.
If the police officer threw a spike onto a moving vehicle, that is not correct. If we can get such evidence, we will discipline the police officer because the spike must be laid down. It is used to control traffic, for motorists to stop and obey the instructions.
*HON. SEN. MUGABE: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government policy regarding pest control in farming this past season? We noticed that the maize crop and horticulture crops like tomato have been attacked by a lot of pests for example chilo worm, army worm and other strange worms. Some of these pests migrate from other countries. Do we have plans to fight off these pests that must have laid eggs in our lands?
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE (LIVESTOCK)
(HON. ZHANDA): It is true that in this cropping season, a lot of pests attacked our crops and they were coming from other countries. We have some chemicals which I cannot mention at the moment which are used to fight these pests. When we are looking for the ideal chemical to eradicate these pests, it takes time. It may take up to a year or two because before you use any chemical, you need to carry out some research to establish if the chemical is compatible with what you want. That chemical will then be imported and be registered in the country so that it can be used legally in the country. At the moment, we are still in a trial and error situation.
On the chemicals which are used to fight pests that destroy tomatoes. We have different specialists who supply these chemicals. All one needs to do is to go to the particular vendor who sells that chemical and tell them the kind of worm or pests which we have. They will give you the appropriate chemical.
The other advice I may give to farmers is that let us scout our fields, after growing crops, we need to scout and check for the pests which could be destroying our crops. We can then look for the chemicals which will fight them. We have some farmers, when they saw these pests, they thought it was the normal army worm which we knew and used that chemical but it failed. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Sport and Recreation. Hon. Minister, males have their own league and they play football up to I do not know. We also have the Mighty Warriors, they have their national team and their league but do you have a league for netball?
THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon.
Sibanda for her question. Did you want to ask for football or netball?
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Netball.
+HON. HLONGWANE: It is true Hon. Members. We have a
netball league here in Zimbabwe, which is quite popular but it is different from football because very few people are interested in netball. With football, a lot of people support it, reporters, companies and the corporate world are interested in football. Netball in Zimbabwe is quite advanced, I would like to inform this House that as I am talking, our national team for netball won the gold medal for Africa, last year. In the whole of Africa they are number one.
I would also like to inform you that, that particular team has qualified for the world cup netball which will be held in July 2017, in Botswana. Also, our under 21 for netball in Zimbabwe has qualified for world cup again, this year. So, netball is popular and has structures across the country. We have teams in the rural areas, urban areas, army, police and in other municipalities. I thank you Mr. President.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: You have mentioned the army, rural
areas and the police, do you also have players from prisons because there are women as well, so that you encourage them to associate with others and realise their talents? There are also some women who are good at playing guitars, do you also approach prisons?
+HON. HLONGWANE: Thank you Mr. President. Thank you
again Hon. Member. Yes, prisons are among the organisations which give us players for netball. Quite a number of our netball players come from prisons. In our national team, there are three players from prisons. Even in the Mighty Warriors, prisons supplies players in that team. I would like to inform the House that prisons are involved in sports as well. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question is directed to the Minister of Sport and Recreation. Hon. Minister, you are on record talking about sport development. What measures are you putting in place to develop coaching, so that we avoid firing the coaches after every loss at major matches? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Member
for the good question. Your question elicits an answer that is multifaceted, in the sense that at policy level, our job as Government is to regulate provisioning of coaching education across all sport codes in the country. That takes various forms. As Government, we are very much concerned about the quality of service provided by those who are entrusted with the task of making sure that they assist our athletes in the country, especially those athletes who are within the elite sector of sport development.
To intervene and mitigate on some of the confusion that may come out of the absence of requisite skills, one of the things that we have done, working together with the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development is to introduce diploma and degree programmes so that we have a cadreship of administrators as well as technical officials that are trained in both the theoretical and practical aspects of coaching and administering sport.
The National University of Science and Technology in Bulawayo provides a diploma to those students who do not have 5 ‘O’ Levels but would want to supplement for the deficit in terms of their subjects, so that at the end of a three year programme they are able to be given their diplomas. It also provides a degree in sport science and coaching.
Bindura University of Science Education is also in the same area as well as the Zimbabwe Institute of Management. We have developed a programme together with the Sports and Recreation Commission that tries to fill that skills gap within the sports and recreation sector. As far as coaching in particular sport codes is concerned, that is regulated by International Confederations of those sport codes.
In the case of football, it is regulated by CAF and FIFA. In the case of rugby it is regulated by World Rugby and so forth. What we have advised the National Sport Associations is to make sure that they do not expose our athletes to inadequate skills in terms of those skills that are provided for by coaches. Therefore, as we speak now there is a movement within the National Sports Associations to make sure that those who are going to be coaching a particular sport code have the requisite skills that are accredited with the national, regional as well as the international confederation. That is definitely a requirement.
This is very important because if we do not do that we will find that substandard skills would be interacting with our athletes. A product can only be as good as how it is being produced. So, it is a very important question that you ask but I want you to know that it is a matter that we are dealing with and it is being handled at the highest level.
Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Minister, what is Government policy regarding the deaths which occur in accidents on the roads like the accident on the bus going to Beitbridge on the road to South Africa? The road is very narrow and people are dying. There was an accident in which many people died just last night. Then, what are your plans regarding the correction of these problems on this major highway?
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Thank you Mr. President and I thank Hon. Chabuka for this pertinent question. As a nation, we are very much grieved by the accident which occurred and we lost so many people. This is regardless of the condition of the road but what really hurts us as the Government of Zimbabwe is the deaths on such accidents. We have just received a police report that confirms that they are now 17 people who have died and at the same time, we have some other people who were injured in this accident who are critical. This really touches me since this problem is part of my purview and one of my jurisdictions.
I am talking of the road which is from Beitbridge to Chirundu, as I have told this august House before that we have sourced for a loan from a company which is prepared to help and to partner us and this company is called Geiger International from Austria. Geiger International is going to construct and repair this major highway and shortly we will be holding a groundbreaking ceremony. When you are coming from Masvingo near Chaka Growth Point, there is a river there and you will see that we have already started on some work there. That is where we are going to do groundbreaking. We want to start the programme of constructing this road and it is a very busy road which is used by people who would be going to do business in South Africa.
It is a main artery road which is very valid in our economic situation. As a result, we have divided the development project into six sectors and each sector will be given 100 kilometers long to work on that road. Because, we feel that if we give many companies, each one of them will be responsible for a particular potion, we can complete this job within two years. I am sorry about what happened.
The main problem which we were facing is that we did not have enough money to construct or repair these roads. Consequently, we have had to borrow money from outside. We borrowed an amount of $998 million which is nearly $1 billion and we are saying, we need to go to Chirundu and we are looking for a further $886 million which is another billion dollars. So, these are two billion dollars which are needed. Since we started working on our roads, we have never used such an amount and the amount which we need is $2.1billion dollars. We may not have that money as a nation but we have friends who are prepared to lend us that kind of money and we are very sympathetic to the people who passed on on our roads.
On the other hand, we are begging Hon. Members to talk to the drivers in our constituencies and please, advise drivers to drive carefully on the roads because some of these accidents are caused by man fault.
We have just launched a new Highway Code and it has been shown that 99% of our accidents are mainly caused by human error. These omnibus drivers should be aware that they are carrying valuable human lives on board, hence should avoid recklessness.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Minister, many accidents are caused by haulage trucks and recently we lost one of our cadres from our party because of the haulage truck. When are you going to make matters well in the railway line so that we remove the haulage trucks from our roads? Can you explain to us when they are going to remove these haulage trucks from our roads?
I would like to explain so that you understand. The haulage trucks destroy our roads. When are you going to repair the railway line and how long will it take you to repair it? Are you not disturbed by the deaths of people in these carnages?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: Hon. Senator, it is a
supplementary issue, so let us be brief please.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: It is painful Mr. President. I am sorry.
*HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you Mr. President. It is not a supplementary question but it is important.
Firstly, the question is two pronged. She is talking about removing the haulage trucks from the roads and also about the national railways. When we construct roads – dualisation; from Bulawayo, we want to construct it from Beitbridge to Victoria Falls. When we dualise, and have more lanes, we hope that it will help in reducing accidents but it does not mean that we will not have accidents completely. Haulage trucks cannot be removed from the roads because some of the things cannot be transported using other modes. They will always be there but the drivers have to exercise caution on the roads.
As she is talking about the rehabilitation of the railways, our railwayline is now dilapidated of which poor management and over employment are the causes. Cabinet has now given us a go ahead for us to source some funding to resuscitate our railway lines. Regarding the resuscitation of transport, the Private Public Partnerships (PPP) or other external donors who may come and assist us. We need to look at all those ways of resuscitating the railway system. Unfortunately, the accounting system or the balance books of the National Railways have been so badly managed that we do not have any partner who may come into the country and gladly come into partnership with us after observing that. Now, we are in the process of sourcing for partners who can help us resuscitate the transport and the railway system in Zimbabwe. I am begging you Members of Parliament to please assist us in sourcing for this assistance.
We have had enquiries coming from people and we know at times we have overuse of the roads, which is at times caused by the poor railway system. These heavy trucks will then destroy the roads. +HON. SEN. NCUBE: My supplementary question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Gumbo. What measures are there concerning these haulage trucks to push a time frame that by such time, haulage trucks should stop moving? We have realised that most of the accidents happen at night. I thank you.
*HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you Senator Ncube for the
question. Some people are calling for haulage trucks to be barred from moving on the roads at a certain time. We do not have that particular law which says we set time that these heavy duty lorries should only travel at some particular time. We have insinuated that after 6 o’clock in the evening, we should not move these lorries. Unfortunately, some of our drivers do not listen to some of these laws which are made at an ad hoc basis. We have noticed, as the law makers, that if you continue guiding people through using the laws, there may appear to be a problem. You may seem to be a nuisance to such a case that when these haulage truck drivers are driving after 6 o’clock and they are arrested,
we may find that we now have problems and corruption may creep in because a driver would be apprehended for driving after 6 o’clock in the evening.
As legislators, we are aware of our situation and if you feel it is valid that we really set a law which says these heavy duty tracks should not travel after some time, we need to work together so that we do not apportion blame whenever there is anything which may happen in future. I may be a Minister today but tomorrow it could be you. I am very grateful for the question which has been asked. We do not have laid down rules and regulations saying these heavy duty trucks should not move after such a time. We may need to have lay byes or places whereby these truck drivers should put up and rest in places such as Mvuma and Mutendi. These drivers move in the evening, put on some flash lights, which may blind other people. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President. My question
goes to the Deputy Minister of Agriculture (Livestock), Hon. Zhanda.
We are heading for a bumper harvest in this country and we thank God for that. However, I have come across information that Government is intending to bar private millers from buying maize from producers directly. You are on record in this House encouraging that this country and economy or the market is going to be on a ‘free buyer - free seller’,
‘willing buyer - willing seller’ basis, which was a good thing. Can you tell the nation why the Government is intending to run away from that position which I think is very advantageous to the population?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Mr. President. I want
to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Let me also clarify probably what I said and what I meant. Maize is no longer a controlled commodity; it was de-controlled. When Government decontrols a commodity, it means that Government is not only the buyer. Anybody can buy because it is legal for anybody to buy maize. That is what I meant.
However, I did say that Government offers $390, a price that you cannot see anywhere, as a way of incentivising farmers to produce what can be adequate to us as a country and that is what has happened. I am happy that you also see the way we have seen it as Government that the Command Programme has produced results. I am not talking on whether it is $4 million, $3 million or whatever it is but we are on the right track in terms of self-sufficiency or producing what is required for
I think you are aware that the Command Agriculture Scheme is not meant for free. It is on a full recovery basis and the only way as Government we can recover what we have advanced to farmers is to encourage them to market their produce through GMB. Moreover, that is where they are paid more than anybody and one would be surprised why one would opt to sell it through a private buyer who will obviously offer them less. In my view, if you find a farmer who wants to sell to a private buyer who offers them less, it means obviously he is trying to circumvent paying what he owes or has been advanced under the
Command Agriculture.
Government has considered that obviously because of the $390, which might be perceived to be a bit higher, will encourage millers and stock feed manufacturers to buy from GMB at import parity, which means it would be probably less than $390. So, the import parity figure will be a figure that has to be agreed. Therefore, I do not see anything wrong with that.
One would have also wanted to encourage that this is why we had a demise of the cotton sector in this country where COTTCO was the only financier of the growing of cotton. Other ginneries came and wanted to buy what they have not invested in. At the end of the day, that is why you saw cotton was no longer being grown by other farmers because of side marketing. Therefore, all those private companies as well, one would think that they should also not come at the middle of the value chain. They must start at the beginning by wanting to cause maize to be grown on their behalf and not to come and buy what has been financed by others.
From a Government point of view, I think for this Command Agriculture to go ahead because Government borrowed money; this scheme was not financed by Government, it was financed by money from the private sector and that money has to go back. Therefore, it is prudent and important that the money must be paid back in order for the programme to go ahead for the next seasons to come. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I hear you Hon. Minister and I thank you for agreeing that Government has changed goal posts because we were looking at the same buyer. Remember our country is made up of
70% of rural people, most of whom are not on the Command Agriculture Scheme. We expect also those people to benefit by selling directly through the ‘willing buyer - willing seller’ scheme which is very profitable to everybody and it is quicker. Hon. Minister, I think you should look into it again. How about re-looking into that so that most of our people who will benefit from selling to private people can continue benefiting - [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - Can you protect me. There is a lot of disturbances from that corner. I think it is Hon. somebody there.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is no
longer a question, you are now…
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Yes, coming from you it is alright but not from him.
HON. ZHANDA: I think I did explain the reasons very well. As I said, if a commodity is deregulated, Government is not saying it is law but is encouraging people to market their produce through GMB, for the purposes that I have explained. As I also alluded to, if you look at the record this past rainy season, every farmer was paid within a specified period, the US$390. Therefore, I do not think it is in the interest of this House, given the example that I have given you on cotton and the same with maize as well as alluding to what you have actually acknowledged that this Command Agriculture has produced results, which are for the benefit of this country. So, we would wish and want the programme to continue in the years to come but if we allow the side marketing of that crop and avoid paying back from where we got the money, I really do not know what this House will stand for. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the time for Questions Without Notice be extended by ten minutes.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. MUMVURI: My question is directed to the
Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Let me start by thanking you and Government for the good work of commissioning the Victoria Falls Airport. A lot of airlines are now using the destination when coming into our country, which is helping our country in line with ZIM ASSET. As Air Zimbabwe, where are we placed? We are not increasing our flights outside to bring tourists here from Britain though some other countries like Rwanda have come in. Where is Zimbabwe placed in such a scenario?
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO): I
want to thank Hon. Sen. Mumvuri for the preamble that he has given. For sure, we have so many planes coming into Zimbabwe and next month we will be having Kenya Airline. We have negotiated with a number of countries to also fly into Zimbabwe. However, in terms of Air Zimbabwe – colleagues, the Ministry of Transport is a difficult Ministry. The things that they need to have are not cheap. The railway and the roads are not in good shape and even the aeroplanes are not in good shape but when given a job to do, you have to do it. Let me assure you that we are working at it squarely and what is on the ground is that we have plans for Air Zimbabwe. We can equate it to what the National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ) was but we have been given permission by Government to work on it. We are far ahead in our plans for the Ministry of Finance to take over the debt of Air Zimbabwe. This will enable us to streamline the Air Zimbabwe management and look for new aeroplanes to help alleviate the plight of Air Zimbabwe. The plan is still in its infancy stage, so I cannot divulge much because there are still
more things to be done but I just want to assure you that before we get to July, you will see a lot of Air Zimbabwe aeroplanes flying. We will be going to Brussels on 26th April to try and service our debt so that we will get our planes flying to London and other routes. So, I think you can hold your horses a little bit because in the near future, things will be alright and we will be running a competitive airline. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Sport and Recreation. We know that ZIFA was instrumental in campaigning for the CAF presidency and we are proud that you allowed it. However, the ZIFA President made a diplomatic blunder when he made a press conference after Ethiopia when he said; we wanted somebody whom we could control. Is it in your policy that you go about controlling people of other nations in terms of sport?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Was it
the Ministry which made that statement or it is an individual?
THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): The thing about sport in general is that sport has its own democratic structures that should be allowed to evolve and express themselves. Football in particular, is one such sensitive sport that we try as Governments across the world to maintain a distance from in respect of issues to do with staffing. When they play out, ordinarily governments do not want to publicly take a position or express themselves to the extent that this was an issue to do with the election of the CAF President and to the extent that regional and national confederations as well as FIFA were involved. I think that our position as Government is that we allow those matters to situate firmly within the purview and domain of football democracy. So, I would not want to make a comment that maybe misconstrued. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: I would like to find out from the
Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development if it is possible to have a 24 hour shift in the repairing and construction of our roads. I am saying that because the road construction is likely to progress in the evening where there will be less traffic. Could you also consider working in the evening instead of during the day?
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Your question can be divided into two. Our roads are in four levels and I think you are talking about roads in town where there is very heavy traffic during the day but when we refer to areas such as Tsholotsho, Chiendambuya and Muzarabani, we do not have a lot of traffic and therefore, people can work at anytime.
I believe the Hon. Senator asked this question with the current disaster that occurred on one of our roads in mind and I am saying, we are talking about the State Procurement Board which has since given us the permission to do whatever we want. They have said we should not burden ourselves with that problem but source for people who can do the job. We have since selected service providers who can do the repairs maintenance of these roads.
I know in some areas, we have roads which have been washed away by rains but now that we have procured services of these service providers who will be working during the day, I will talk to my colleague, Hon. Kasukuwere regarding roads in the urban areas so that the repairs and construction of roads can be done during the evening when there is less traffic. We will definitely communicate. Thank you very much.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing
Order No. 62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
MEASURES TO PROSECUTE SHOP OWNERS WHO CONTINUE
TO SELL ARMY REGALIA TO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
- HON. SEN. MAWIRE asked the Minister of Home Affairs to explain to the House the measures that have been put in place to prosecute the shop owners who continue to sell army regalia to members of the public, defying the directive that prohibits civilians from wearing army regalia.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Firstly, allow me to straighten some misunderstanding relating to army uniform. While Section 99 of the Defence Act, Chapter 11 paragraph 2 prohibits the wearing or selling of army uniforms in terms of clothing that so nearly resemble uniforms supplied to members of the Defence Force, the conduct complained, in most cases, pertains to the clothing resembling army uniform and not the Zimbabwe Defence Force camouflage itself. The influx of such material comes from imports and in most instances, such materials do not resemble army uniform in those countries.
The police and relevant Zimbabwe National Army units have and continue to carry out joint awareness campaigns on the provisions of the Zimbabwe law. I am sure you are also aware of statements that have been made by the Hon. Minister of Defence, Dr. Sekeramayi relating to the same issue including the few arrests that have been made. We are quite happy that the generality of the populace have heeded to this advice and very soon this will be overcome.
In conclusion Hon. Senators, may I point out that the ZRP is committed to respecting and upholding the rights of every citizen and infrastructures that belong to the owners and citizens of Zimbabwe. This may result from resource constraints if some of the duties are not performed in full. Our police officers will always try to provide satisfactory and human service to all the people of Zimbabwe. Police is community and community is police. I thank you.
CHALLENGES POSED BY STREET PEOPLE WHO HARASS
MOTORISTS IN THE PRESENCE OF POLICE OFFICERS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Home Affairs, the role of the police in addressing the challenges posed by street people who harass motorists in the presence of Police Officers manning traffic along Samora Machel Avenue and the corner of Leopold
Takawira street, and seem oblivious of the growing illegal menace by such street people and beggars.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): First and foremost, I wish to acknowledge the problem of street people and those who beg for alms in our cities. This is a multifaceted problem that requires a holistic approach by Government, local authorities and leadership in various positions. However, be that as it may, the Zimbabwe Republic Police will not stand aside while such persons commit criminal offences or harass members of the public. We remain pretty aware of the nagging nature of some of these people as they plead for powers, particularly those who are in the habit of taking intoxicating substances and end up harassing motorists and other road users. At times, their activities are no different from touts. The Zimbabwe Republic Police has not turned a blind eye to any touts, vendors, street persons or beggars who contravene the law by harassing passersby or motorists.
The police are, however, unaware of any complaints of harassments committed by beggars at the point mentioned, which is at the street operating at corner Samora Machel and Leopold Takawira street. May I however, take this opportunity to assure Hon. Senators and the nation at large, that the Zimbabwe Republic Police remains committed and ready to weed out any social delinquency, regardless of their status in society. Certainly, the group is no exception. Should they thwart the law, the ZRP will decisively deal with them. Members of the public should therefore report any delinquencies to the police. I thank you Mr. President.
APPLICATION OF THE PUBLIC ORDER AND SECURITY ACT
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Home Affairs, to clarify how the Public Order and Security Act is applied given the fact that the Police all over the country demand to authorize the holding of private meetings of political party leadership at private venues and if the Minister could cite the specific provisions of the Act used to determine the holding of such meetings so that confusion between notification and seeking police authority is clarified.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): The Public Order and Security Act, Chapter 11:17 was enacted primarily for the purpose of providing a legal framework for the maintenance of internal security and order. One area of life which was targeted for the regulation was public gatherings after it was shown that there was a tendency for such events to quickly degenerate into violence, resulting in loss of life, injury, malicious damage to property and looting. The Zimbabwe Republic Police as the law enforcement arm of
Government has in most cases enforced the provisions of the Public Order and Security Act (POSA) to ensure that law and order is maintained at all times and at all places. Sections 24 and 25 of POSA require that convenors of public meetings give notice in writing to the regulating authority for the district in which the public meeting is to be held. This is the requirement of the law and not the police. The police are there to enforce what is in the law.
Section 2 of the same Act defines a public meeting as follows:
“any meeting of more than 15 persons in a public place or meeting which the public or any section of the public is permitted to attend whether on payment or otherwise”. The definition extends to exclude a meeting of any organ or structure of a political party or other organisation held at a private place. I deliberately cite this definition for its importance in answering the question raised by Hon. Sen. Chimhini. The meetings that are not notified to the police in terms of Sections 24 and 25 are those that do not fall within the scope of public meetings and such meetings are exclusively for organs or structures of a political party held at a private place.
It is critical however, to underscore that, if members of the public are allowed to attend such meeting, then the provisions of Sections 24 and 25 would apply. In such circumstances, the convenor would be required in terms of the law to give notification of the meeting to the regulating authority. A suggestion is made that police demand to authorise the holding of private meetings. I do not think so. Where conveners of meetings and gatherings adhere to the provisions of the law, police will readily facilitate such meetings.
The police have over the years noted that political leaders and their followers tend to choose which laws to obey and which laws to disregard. Under such a scenario, the police would have no option since they are mandated to enforce the law as it is and not as it ought to be. My appeal to Hon. Senators is for them to familiarise themselves with the provisions of the law so that whatever they do is within the scope and limits of the statute. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Minister, the question wants you to explain the point of notification and authority. There is something wrong with the law, if it is notification, it is simply informing the police. We are not seeking authority and I would want the Minister to respond
to that.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Mr. President. I think the Upper House and Lower will have people that are representing the people. It is the law that says you have to notify the police. As police when we are notified, we do what we call risk assessment. Previously, if a similar gathering caused harm within the society, we may stop it because we know that these conveners, when they convene such a meeting it ends up causing looting, destruction of shops, not creating a peaceful environment among the community. Therefore, the reason to notify the police is for them to know and make a profile of that gathering whether it is a threat or not. If it is a threat, the police will stop the meetings.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I want to find out, is it logic or it is written in that law?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Mr. President. It is driven from the Constitution and any Standing Order that will come, even from the
Commissioner General, we have to see that it is linking up with the Constitution. Remember, there are other people who are not in a meeting, who are in their houses, who do not want to be offended by unpeaceful methods and by looting of their property. So, as police we need to protect everybody. We need to facilitate the gathering whilst protecting other people who are not in that gathering. As long as the Constitution allows us to provide peace to those who are not in that gathering, we must look for an instrument that will protect those that are not in the gathering, so that everything is peaceful.
POLICY ON TREATMENT OF SUSPECTS AND ACCUSED
PERSONS IN POLICE CELLS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Home Affairs to explain to the House;
- Government policy on the treatment of suspects and accused persons held in police cells, particularly at Mutare Central Police Station where up to ten inmates can be held in a cell without any flush toilets, water, toilet paper and have to use stinking blankets infested with lice.
- Whether this does not constitute inhuman treatment, in view of the fact that these arrested suspects or accused persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): The Zimbabwe Republic Police is a creation of the
Constitution and as such, is obligated to uphold all Fundamental Human
Rights and Freedoms enshrined in Part 2 of the Constitution. Among these rights are the rights of arrested and detained persons. The constitutional provisions spell out and lay a firm foundation of Government policy regarding the treatment of arrested and detained persons. All other statutes such as the Police Act and the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act build onto this foundation.
May I also assure Hon. Senators that our systems provide for sufficient checks and balances in the protection of the rights of arrested and detained persons. For example, Section 21 of the Schedule to the Police Act, Chapter 11:10 makes it an offence to neglect or to ill-treat in anyway any person in custody. The Hon. Senator makes specific reference to Mutare Central Police Station cells which he alleges have no flush toilets and that detained person at Mutare are treated inhumanely.
It is unfortunate that most police cells were built before independence with external flush systems. Government is doing all it can to keep the flushing systems in good working order and making the necessary renovations so that they meet modernity. The only major constraints are limited resources, but in order you for you to get a deeper understanding of how the ZRP safeguards the interests and rights of arrested and detained persons.
Allow me to give you a brief insight into police operations and administration. In their day to day operations, police stations are guided by the national laws, the Constitution being the supreme law, the Police Act and Regulations; in addition, there are standard operating procedures that include the Police Standing Orders issued by the
Commissioner General of police in terms of Section 9 of the Police Act,
Uncoded rules, the Client Service Charter, Guiding Principles, Station
Orders and Routine drawn by each Officer in Charge of a police station.
These instruments are vital in spelling out the Dos and Don’ts at police stations. Some of these Dos and Don’ts relate to the treatment of arrested and detained persons, their general up-keeping while in police custody and the general maintenance of the police cells. Police stations maintain the following records in relation to police cells:
A register of cell visits, the officer or a Member- in- Charge of the station where or a shift leader or a relief officer is required to visit each cell after every thirty or fifteen minutes in a rural or an urban police station respectively. The purpose of the visit is to check on the welfare of detained persons.
A visit register is also maintained for members of the judiciary. Magistrates and judges carry out announced and unannounced visits to police cells to check on the detention of arrested persons.
A blankets laundry schedule and register; blankets in cells that have been issued out for use are washed every seven days and such action endorsed on both the laundry schedule which is normally pasted on the walls of each cell and on the appropriate register. These records are available for inspection.
All police cells are guarded by roving patrols and toilets are flushed every 15 minutes or earlier upon request by inmates. Further to these efforts, police cells are cleaned twice each day; once in the morning and once in the afternoon and upon request or as directed by the Officer-in-Charge when such need arises.
All detained persons are issued with toilet paper upon detention using scales that are stipulated in the Police Standing Orders. Some of these good practices have been copied by regional Police Services for implementation in their own countries.
With specific reference to Mutare Police Station, our checks revealed that there are seven police cells at the station. The station on average detains ten accused at a time and has 44 blankets in use which may be increased when need arises. It can be increased to 50 blankets, as we have 50 blankets in stock. As indicated, the blankets are washed as per set schedules and are not lice infested as alleged.
For the avoidance of doubt, there may be a few occasions when the sewer system is faulty or when the water supply is cut, particularly at stations that rely on water from local authorities. In such circumstances, police readily provide alternative sources of water and the Police
Construction Unit in each province gives priority to faulty sewers. I personally visited the cells at Mutare and found out that the water was cut. I managed to call the Mayor and he cooperated and water was reconnected because even the police officers did not have water in their hostels. They had to walk for five kilometers to go and fetch water when it was cut.
The ZRP is in the process of upgrading its cells and other infrastructure and we are hopeful that the flushing systems at all police cells will be gradually improved to allow flushing by the user or by electric sensors. In the meantime, the ZRP will continue to maintain the facilities in a humane and habitable state that is possible.
I went to Kariba where the community and the business forum saw that the toilets and other facilities were not good; they contributed. That is why I was saying “police is community, community is police.” The community there with the business people cleaned the station. US$3 500 was also raised from the fund raising dinner that was held to fix the cells and toilets at Kariba Police Station.
May all Zimbabweans be in that mood so that we make our police stations a home and place to report cases and have good administration.
I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I want to believe that when Ministers come and give responses, they say things as they are. We want the truth. Anybody who has been detained at police stations knows very well that there is no toilet paper in the cells but for the Minister to come and say cells are checked after every fifteen minutes does not serve the country. All I am simply saying on a point of order is that Ministers must come and tell the truth because we have been there and we know what is happening. The truth has to be told. Thank you Mr. President – [HON.
SENS: Hear, hear.]-
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT (HON. SEN.
TAVENGWA): Order, order. I think you should withdraw the statement that the Minister is not telling the truth. Maybe in order of their standard operating procedures, that is what should be done. If then the officers at that station are not applying that, then that is something else.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I am not accusing the Minister because I want to believe that the Minister is given a report by the officials. I am saying the officials who gave that report to the Minister are lying because I was in those cells. I am not accusing the Minister. I am accusing those who gave the Minister wrong information. They are lying to the Minister – [HON. SENS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. MGUNI: I went physically to Mutare cells, as I have indicated. You can even phone the Mayor, the Propol for Manicaland but there was not water. Even if they knew that I was coming, the municipality had cut the water. We had to meet with the Mayor and we solved the problem amicably and the toilets were cleaned. I thank you Mr. President.
MEASURES TO CURB THE RAMPANT STEALING OF MAIZE
FROM THE FIELDS
- HON. SEN. GOTO asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House what measures the Ministry has put in place to curb the rampant stealing of maize from fields, a concern that is seriously affecting the programme of Command Agriculture which was embarked on by the Government.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I am sure that most of the Hon. Members and myself included, are farmers or somehow have relatives who are into farming. I am also confident that those people will readily attest to the ZRP’s readiness and commitment to the success of Government programmes, including the land reform exercise and all its intended activities.
From the onset of the Land Reform Programme, the police established police posts and bases in all resettled areas in order to bring police services closer to people. Police regularly complement these efforts through mounted cycle, vehicle and foot patrols in a bid to curb criminal activities that could impede on agricultural activities.
In addition, most farming areas have active neighbourhood watch committees and Home Affairs offices for police like bases and police stations. These schemes that involve policing with locals must be manifested and promoted through each community in that separate area. All these initiatives are among a host of proactive crime fighting strategies provided by police in farming communities.
Let us all rally behind these efforts and safeguard our agricultural produce. So far, crime statistics from the police on theft of farm produce do not suggest anything sinister. I wish to give modest assurance that our harvest is safe. Let us not tire in giving the police the necessary support and information to bring the culprits into books. Thank you Mr.
President.
DEVELOPMENT AND PROMOTION OF SPORTS
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Sport and
Recreation, to state the plans that the Ministry has to develop and promote sports in Zimbabwe.
THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Thank you Hon. President. I stand guided Hon.
President by the limited scope of the expected parameters of the question I am addressing which is demanding an outline of plans by the Ministry to develop sport and recreation in Zimbabwe. However, I must make clear pronouncement that beyond plans and planning, the Ministry of Sport and Recreation has already effected some functional frameworks for the betterment of our sport and recreation sector in the country. To avoid deviation from the given question, there is need to inclusively outline both the Ministry’s intended and implemented strategic course to develop the sport and recreation sector in Zimbabwe.
Against this background, it is worth noting that our drive to develop sport and recreation has been guided by the Ministry’s national sport and recreation policy campus which was adopted by Government in August, 2016, which seeks among other things:
- To bring the marginalities of the past to rest by mainstreaming all sport codes practiced in Zimbabwe with a noble intention of fostering mass participation by all Zimbabweans.
- Enhancing the monitisation of sport and recreation with a strong bias of making the sport and recreation industry an alternative source of employment for the people of Zimbabwe, in other words integrating sport and recreation to the real economy of the country.
- To lobby for the widening of access to recreational facilities in a bid to promote and strengthen social coercion, nation building and manufacturing patriotic consent; at the same time, cultivating a robust culture of fitness and wellness across the country.
- To serve the mandate of promoting investment, marketing and consumption of sport and recreation services; and finally
- To develop a sustainable funding model for sport and recreation in the country.
In respect of the practical steps that we have taken as a Ministry, since the consummation of the national sport and recreation policy in August 2016, the following operational policies have been elaborated on and are currently under implementation.
- THE COMMUNITY SPORT AND RECREATION CLUB SYSTEM.
The community sport and recreation club system has been operationalised to assist the Ministry of Sport and Recreation to create sport and recreation clubs in marginal communities and rather all communities across the country. The conclusive aim of this programme is to promote mass participation by all in sport and recreation.
The community sport and recreation club system is an effective platform for stimulating inclusion and participation by all in recreation, including our youths, women, persons with disabilities and the elderly in order to address issues of discipline, employment patriotism, gender, health, lifestyle tolerance of different community development fairness, culture, nationhood, social coercion and generating a productive working class, thereby contributing towards the economy of Zimbabwe.
As we speak right now, starting September of 2016, the community of sport and recreation club system is being implemented across the country in our communities; in wards. We have an encumbrance which I must state that in terms of the structure of the Ministry, we are not able to reach the wards because our officers are only present at the district level. We are however seeking synergies with those Ministries that have a presence at the ward level to make sure that this programme is a success across the country. We are also developing a cadreship of volunteer corps to make sure that they do participate in this programme with a view to making sure that all the youths belong to one club or the other across the country. This programme is affecting 21 sport codes that have been identified that are not present at the community level.
- TEAM ZIMBABWE NATIONAL SELECTION POLICY
The Ministry of Sport and Recreation has also established a guiding framework in the selection of Team Zimbabwe participants to represent the country in competitions at regional, continental and international levels. The policy framework is aimed at making sure that there is transparency as core principle that guides the selection of athletes as well as technical teams into our national team. This is important in order to prevent nepotism, favouritism, clientelism as well as rent seeking in the selection process and selection criteria.
This has been informed by the fact that previously we had youth that have attained gold Hon. President at National Youth Games but those athletes do not find themselves making the grade into our national teams as a result of the many ills that I have enunciated above.
- POLICY ON HOSTING OF NATIONAL AND
INTERNATIONAL EVENTS
This is an operational policy that serves as a template for Zimbabwe’s bidding and hosting of regional and international games so that we develop our sport tourism in a very big way. Right now we are working on a joint venture project with the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Industry to try to bring to Zimbabwe the ballon d’or which is a prestigious FIFA event recognises the best athletes in football.
- SPORT ACADEMY POLICY
The Ministry of Sport and Recreation Academy is currently working on developing a Sport Academy Policy with biases and interest in forming a multi-disciplinary high performance centre which will work as an incubator for talent identification as well as athletes’ development. The principal objective of this policy roadmap for athletes’ development is to enhance Zimbabwe’s capacity in meeting the required international performance standards. Through this initiative, the Ministry of Sport and Recreation will work in partnership with the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development to identify universities and colleges which are endowed with the best sport and recreation facilities with a view to accrediting those facilities as district, provincial as well as national training centres. The accreditation process will be code based and standard facilities within a particular given institution.
On the other hand, we are working as a Ministry at the ward; district and provincial levels to make sure that there are training centres at those levels. In this regard, we are working at those levels. In this regard, we are working with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to make sure that we consummate at a macro level or at a national level, a project that we have piloted successfully in Bulawayo.
- The Zimbabwe National Fitness and Wellness Programme
The Ministry has also developed the Zimbabwe National Fitness and Wellness Programme whose main purpose is to promote health, fitness and wellness lifestyles for all Zimbabweans as well as to increase public awareness of the benefits of health. At this juncture Hon.
President, I need to state that 30% of Zimbabwe’s disease burden according to the World Health Organisation, is attributable to noncommunicable diseases. The solutions for these reside in a robust national fitness and wellness programme. The Ministry of Sport and Recreation has now put that in place and we are waiting to launch that programme with a view to rolling it out across the country. This is a programme that we expect every Zimbabwean, regardless of age, to participate in. We have developed manuals that have adapted programming to make sure that those that are beyond 80 also participate in wellness programming. Those that are 60 and beyond also participate in wellness programming. Those that have a disability also participate in wellness programming.
- Sports Medicine Industry
The National Sports and Recreation Policy emphasises the need for the establishment of a sound sport medicine sector. In response to that, the Ministry of National Sport and Recreation has engaged in a bi-lateral understanding with Cuba in this regard. This plan will see Cuban sport medicine specialists coming on board to Zimbabwe to exchange skills with their Zimbabwean counterparts. As such, at the outset of the programme, a seminal approach will be administered in the interest of reducing the financial burden which may result from a conventional exchange sequence.
However, emphasis will be exerted on prophylaxis as far as this programme is concerned. We are worried Hon. President that our athletes get medical attention after they have been injured. We are working on trying to reverse that course so that there is emphasis on prophylaxis and preventive approaches tosports medicine. Athletes must know how to behave when they are on the field of play so that they avoid contracting injuries that may be threatening to their careers.
- Anti-Doping
Zimbabwe is among the 179 signatory nations to the UNESCO Convention, hence the mandatory compliance to anti-doping programming. The same Convention sufficiently serves as pragmatic instrument by which governments across the world should institutionally enact their globally sanctioned obligation to the cause of anti-doping. This is a clear indication of the magnitude of the importance of antidoping and its keynote relevance is at the apex of contemporary global sport development priorities.
In Zimbabwe in particular, the Government is working in partnership with the Zimbabwe Olympic Committee to make sure that an anti-doping programme is administered and this is in fact, something that is already going on. Last month we put in place a National Antidoping Coordinating Committee which comprises of all stakeholders. Plans are afoot to enact anti-doping legislation and the legal department within my Ministry is working on the principles of such a Bill.
- Municipal Sport
We are also working, in short Hon. President, as a Ministry to make sure that we undertake a programme to revive municipal sport and the Minister is going to be visiting all the 32 Urban Local Authorities with a view to lobbying for fledged sport and recreation departments within those municipalities. Sport and Recreation development for all is to be included as well as to make sure that change of land use within the urban local authorities, where it affects sport and recreation is in fact not effected.
The maintenance and servicing of sport and recreation infrastructure - we have seen a deterioration of such infrastructure within our urban local authorities as well as making sure that we revive community sport and recreation activities.
Hon. President, these are some of the activities that the Ministry of Sport and Recreation is engaging in in order to develop and promote sport and recreation in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE RATIFICATION OF THE PARIS AGREEMENT
ON CLIMATE CHANGE
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): Thank you Mr. President. I rise
to seek leave of the House to move a motion on the ratification of the
Paris Agreement. The Paris Agreement as already been approved by the National Assembly today and has a bearing on a United Nations meeting that is scheduled to take place in Washington DC which meeting has already been organised by UNICEF and it will be taking place from the 16th to the 21st of April, 2017. The meeting will bring together Ministers responsible for Finance, Water, Climate Change and Sanitation to discuss issues of financial support to programmes targeted at addressing effects of climate change. Water is a basic human right in our Constitution and its effective supply has been affected by climate change. The meeting will help Zimbabwe to take part in the critical discussion on financing. Mr. President, the meeting will be attended by donors and other development partners and will assist Zimbabwe and other countries to access critical financing. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: With all due respect, we want to give the
Minister’s motion all attention. Looking at the time, I was of the opinion that it can be looked at next time when we come back.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: I know that you are all
eager to proceed home but because of the break, the Hon. Minister is proceeding to present these issues when we are on break. This is why she has requested.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Mr. President, with all due respect Sir, is that the normal procedure?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: It is procedural. She asked
me and we are in agreement. There is no problem at all. I do not believe that it will take us more than 30 minutes. Please let us consider this issue as seniors and mature people. Thank you very much.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF PARIS AGREEMENT ON CLIMATE CHANGE
HON. MUCHINGURI: I move the motion standing in my name
that;
WHEREAS Section 327 (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any international treaty which has been concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe signed the Paris
Agreement on Climate Change at the United Nations Headquarters in
New York, United States of America on the 22nd of April 2016;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of ratifying the
Paris Agreement on Climate Change;
WHEREAS Article 21 (1) of the Paris Agreement on Climate Change provides that the same shall come into force on the thirtieth day after the date on which at least 55 parties to the Convention accounting in total for at least an estimated 55 percent of the total global greenhouse gas emissions have deposited their instruments of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid
Agreement be and is hereby approved for ratification.
Thank you Mr. President. Zimbabwe participated in the historic
21st Conference of Parties (COP 21) which took place in December,
2015 in Paris. The Conference resulted in the adoption of the historic Paris Agreement on Climate Change. His Excellency, the President, signed the Agreement on 22nd April 2016 in New York, thereby binding Zimbabwe to fully commit to its implementation. One hundred and ninety-six countries reached a consensus on the need to cut greenhouse gas emissions, thereby making the Paris Agreement a unifying treaty in the world’s effort to combat climate change. To date, 136 countries have ratified the Paris Agreement with over 30 countries being in Africa. The countries that have ratified the Paris Agreement are already preparing and positioning themselves to benefit from the Agreement’s provision.
What are the overviews of the Paris Agreement?
The Agreement was developed to compliment the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) that did not include the developing countries in climate change mitigation, especially with reference to greenhouse gas emissions reduction. Greenhouse gases cause global warming, which consequently cause climate change. The Agreement has an implementation framework that also highlights its objectives. The framework aims to strengthen the global response to the threat of climate change in the context of sustainable development and efforts to eradicate poverty. Provisions on the implementation of the nationally determined contributions elaborate their purpose as building climate resilience and contributing towards keeping the global temperatures below 1.5 degrees celsius through mitigation actions.
Zimbabwe’s focus is on energy and agriculture. Climate change mitigation generally involves reduction in human emissions of greenhouse gases. Mitigation may also be achieved by increasing the capacity of carbon sinks through such measures as afforestation, reforestation and reduction of deforestation.
The Agreement encompasses the concept of adaptation with the aim of enhancing adaptive capacities, strengthening resilience and reducing vulnerability to climate change. Adaptation entails anticipating the adverse effects of climate change and taking appropriate action to prevent or minimize the damage they can cause or taking advantage of opportunities that may arise. It has been shown that well planned adaptation action saves money and lives.
What are the justifications for the Agreement?
It is from the above background that I recommend to this august House to consider ratifying the Paris Agreement for the following reasons:
- Ratification of the Paris Agreement will allow Zimbabwe to join the rest of the world in implementing the Agreement in order to strengthen the global response to the threat of climate change in the context of sustainable development and efforts to eradicate poverty.
- Being part of the Agreement will ensure that Zimbabwe is eligible to access resources provided for under the different frameworks and mechanisms for climate change adaptation
and mitigation, particularly with reference to the intended nationally determined contributions.
- Ratification will ensure that Zimbabwe can participate in pre 2020 preparatory activities that will define the operational modalities of the Paris Agreement and with other African countries to ensure that these modalities are not detrimental to Zimbabwe’s socio-economic aspirations.
- Benefiting from the multilateral climate funds is conditional upon a country being party to the Agreement. Hence Zimbabwe will be better positioned to benefit by ratifying the Paris Agreement.
I therefore plead with this august House to approve the ratification of the Paris Agreement. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: This is a beautiful piece of Agreement. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing it to this House. I think it was already overdue. It should have been brought here long back because a year has gone. We are only saying that because we need others and we need them more than they need us. We have always said that Zimbabwe cannot be an island. Now that we are realizing it, I think this brings joy to almost every citizen. Let us keep it in our minds that we cannot do it alone. Let us listen to other countries and to the whole world. This is a beautiful piece of document and I am happy that you have brought it to us. I think, Mr. President, you were right that we should look at it right now because it helps the families of
Zimbabweans. Also considering the fact that there are funds that are associated with this piece of Agreement, I think Zimbabweans, poor and hungry as we are, will welcome everything that comes with it. Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: The consequence of climate change is a world concern and its contribution to the greenhouse gas in terms of effects on Africa is greater than in the highly developed countries. In other words, generally they contribute to this infection to the climate. Africa only contributes something like 8% whereas the 92% is coming from all the other countries which are developed. We however, suffer more than those other countries and because of such consequences, we will support this in and out. Generally, the destruction through the climate change which we have suffered as African countries can cost billions. Rather, we will accept that piece of legislation and that we also participate highly in this one because we think that the reparation for the destruction of climate change has to be contributed by such other countries which cause that rather than Africa itself. If you look at the 8%, it is far smaller than the 92% destruction that has been caused by the developed countries.
We would want to thank the Minister for bringing this Agreement to this House. We support it greatly. The reason why we were trying to stand up is that it came late and others were also supposed to have supported this particular Agreement. It is most unusual but we do support the document.
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): Thank you Mr. President. Let me
take this opportunity to thank the two Hon. Senators who have supported the ratification of this very beautiful piece of legislation, the Paris Agreement. Indeed, Hon. Sen. Marava, I want to thank you for supporting this piece of legislation. Zimbabwe is lagging behind. I want to agree that already 40 countries within Africa have already ratified this piece of legislation. We had also, as Zimbabwe, to give ourselves an opportunity to look very closely to the benefits that accrue and also, have an appreciation that as we appeal for funding, there are no conditions that are imposed on Zimbabwe which will undermine our own policies as a country. I want to say that it is better late than never.
We had to make sure that we really tighten all those concerns that we have. It is not to say that we had not started preparing ourselves for the implementation of the Paris Agreement. We have moved quite some steps to ensure that we have put in place structures that will be responsible for putting together projects which are bankable for us to be able to tap on the Green Climate Fund and also the Adaptation Fund. So,
Zimbabwe has really moved some steps.
We have put together technical teams which you find in our National Determined Contributions (NDCs). I have already indicated that energy is one such and I am sure you appreciate that Kariba last year was only producing 298 megawatts as opposed to 700 megawatts. So for us, renewable energy becomes very critical. A technical team has already been put together to start ensuring that we tap into resources, whereby we participate like all other developing countries to make sure that rather than relying on hydro, which sometimes during times of drought which is a cause of climate change, that we do have alternatives and these are renewable energy programmes. So, we are already implementing the Paris Agreement.
Hon. Sen. Makore, thank you for supporting this Paris Agreement ratification motion. Climate change, I agree it is real and Zimbabwe is suffering from recurrent droughts which we have experienced in the last ten years. Just this season, we experienced above normal and normal rainfall. We know the floods, whilst we welcomed the rains which we received but we know the damages that came with this normal to above normal rainfall. We know how our infrastructure was destroyed and how we lost 171 of our dams, and now 140 dams are under threat also.
We are saying, whilst we have these problems, we need to adapt to that situation. It is very expensive. We hope that the developing countries which did not contribute much to the problems of climate change would result in most of these African countries tapping on the
$10 billion that already has been availed. You know the target is on 2020 where we expect $100 billion to be availed for developing countries to address most of their challenges, like in Zimbabwe, afforestation problems, harvesting of water and building resilience of our communities to cope with climate change impacts.
At this juncture, I want to thank China which has availed $60 billion under FOCAC which they have availed to Africa for us to be able to build resilience for our countries to cope with the impacts of global warming and climate change. I want to thank the Hon. Senators for supporting this Bill. I thank you
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI), the Senate
adjourned at Eleven Minutes to Five o’clock p.m until Tuesday, 2nd May, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 11th April, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the following Statutory Instruments gazetted during the month of January, 2017. The Committee is of the opinion that Statutory Instruments 153, 154,155, 156, 157, 159, 160 and 161 of 2016 and
Statutory Instruments 1 up to 22 of 2017 are not in contravention of the
Declaration of Rights or any other provisions of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just want to indicate that in terms of the Judicial Laws Amendment (Ease of Settling Commercial and Other Disputes) Bill, (H.B.4, 2016), I had forwarded the amendments not understanding what then happened because the technical people at the office of the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who were supposed to take them on board - In fact, they indicated that they were going to incorporate them and I hoped they were going to also be reflected on the Order Paper. However, it is my observation Hon. Speaker that those amendments, which are very important to enrich and ensure that the Bill really passes the test of jurisprudential legitimacy are not included on the Order Paper.
I have conversed with the Hon. Vice President who is indicating to me that he is not aware of the amendments, so I seek your guidance because it will be very unfortunate if these amendments were to be disregarded. In terms of the Standing Orders, once a Member has some amendments to make, he has to make a notice of those amendments, which I did in terms of the Standing Orders. They were supposed to be included on the Order Paper and that has not been done. I have got the amendments and I was going to seek the indulgence of the House to have regard to the amendments as and when we debate the specific clauses during the Committee Stage.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do your amendments relate to the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Indeed Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is only fair that what has to be discussed in the Chamber must be before the Chamber in the record of the Order Paper and for two major reasons, firstly the Ministry responsible must be favoured with those amendments and secondly, the Hon. Members must also be favoured with those amendments. So, I suggest that they be incorporated for tomorrow in the Order Paper.
COMMITTEE STAGE
DEEDS REGISTRIES AMENDMENT BILL, (H.B.3, 2016)
First Order read: Committee Stage: Deeds Registries Amendment Bill, (H.B.3, 2016).
House in Committee
Clauses 1 to 2 put and agreed to.
On Clause 3:
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move the amendment standing in my name that;
Clause 3 (New Part inserted in Cap. 20:05): Electronic
Registry Amendment of New Section 89 (“Interpretation in Part
VIII”)
On page 3 of the Bill, insert between the definitions of “registered user” and “user agreement” the following definition:
“self-actor” means an individual wishing to lodge any document for registration in a Deeds Registry or for attestation or execution by a
Registrar—
- on his or her own behalf, or on behalf of himself or
herself and one or more other persons having a shared interest in the property in question; or
- on behalf of a company (other than a public company) of
which he or she is the alter ego, or the majority shareholder;”.
New Section 93 (“Registration of Registered Users and
Suspension or Cancellation of Registration”)
On page 4 of the Bill, in sub clause (3) of clause 93, delete paragraph (a) on lines 34 and 35 and redenominate paragraphs (b) and
(c) as paragraphs (a) and (b) respectively:
On page 5 of the Bill, in sub clause (4) of clause 93, delete paragraph (a) on line 12 and redenominate paragraphs (d) to (i) as paragraphs (c) and (h) respectively.
Amendment to Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Proposed Second Schedule:
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move the amendment standing in my name that;
Clause 4 New Schedule Inserted in Cap. 2:05
On page 10 of the Bill, in paragraph 1 (“Scope and Purpose of
User Agreement”) insert after line 25 the following subparagraph after subparagraph (a) and (b) subparagraph (1):
“(c) have access to the electronic registry as a self-actor .”
Amendment to Clause 4 put and agreed to.
Clause 4, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, there has been representation that some Hon. Members, in particular Hon. Chamisa handed over some proposed amendments to that Bill, but there has been some technical deficiency I think in the process, and the proposed amendments are not appearing on the Order Paper. This is not a guarantee that I agree with him but we would like to facilitate the fact that it comes on the Order Paper and we can argue tomorrow. So I move that Order of the Day, Number 2 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL, [H.B. 7,
2016]
Third Order read: Second Reading: Movable Property Security
Interests Bill,] H.B. 7, 2016].
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I rise to
present the Movable Property Security Interests Bill [H.B. 7, 2016] for consideration by this august House. The Bill’s principal objective is to provide a framework within which movable property may be used as collateral or security for purposes of obtaining loans upon reasonable terms from members of our financial system.
Background
Madam Speaker, in order to allow a wider demography of our citizens access to bank loans at reasonable interest rates and in equal measure, in order to provide players in the financial sector the additional comfort offered by security, we have considered it fit to introduce this Bill so that it spurs enterprise development and at the same time, that it promotes stability in the financial services sector of Zimbabwe.
Principally, the initiative entails the establishment of a collateral registry of movable property such as machinery, automobiles, inventory, and accounts receivables. The registry will serve as a central source of information and will facilitate commerce, industry and other economic activities by enabling individuals and businesses to utilise their movable assets as collateral for credit, thereby injecting vitally important liquidity into their respective enterprises. The initiative promotes the availability of credit by significantly diminishing the risk assumed by lenders as they may bond movable assets as collateral and have immediately available recourse where a borrower defaults in loan repayment.
As alluded to in the 2016 National Budget Statement, access to finance is one of the most important components for sustainable business and economic growth in any economy in the world.
However, the majority of Zimbabweans are not able to access credit from financial institutions due to lack of acceptable security in the form of immovable property such as houses or factories which are traditionally preferred by formal lending institutions. This Bill seeks to specifically address that gap.
Purpose and functions of the Collateral Registry
Madam Speaker, the collateral registry system is aimed at the following:
- providing a mechanism for efficient registration of security interests in movable property and realisation of such interests in the event of a default of payment by borrowers;
- the creation and perfection of moveable security interests;
- providing a platform to inform parties and the public about the existence of a security interest in movable property; and
- the collateral registry will be established as a department of the
Reserve Bank headed by a Registrar appointed by the Governor.
Enabling Legislative Framework
Currently, the legal framework dealing with secured transactions is fragmented and needs to be consolidated and modernised in line with international best practices. The current laws include:
- The Deeds Registries Act;
- The Hire Purchase Act;
- The Bills of Exchange Act;
- The Grain Marketing Act and
- The Agricultural Finance Act, among others.
This system is inefficient, costly and lacks the transparency required to support the growth of secured lending transactions.
This Bill will provide for a holistic approach towards the utilisation of movable assets as collateral by harmonising all the relevant Acts. In this regard, even the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act and the Banking Act will be amended for the financial sector to achieve the intended objective of this Bill.
Creation of security interest by execution of security agreement
Madam Speaker, the Collateral Registry will register the security interest provided the debtor has the rights in the movable asset. Such assets may include any type of movable assets such as machinery, automobiles, inventory, livestock and account receivables.
Collateral Registry Fees
The operations of the Collateral Registry would be funded through levying of cost recovery fees and charges to be specified in the regulations. The fees may be charged for registration, amendment and cancellation of notices.
Consumer Protection
In order to protect the borrower from inaccurate information being registered in the Collateral Registry, the Bill will ensure that any information that is registered would be confirmed and authorised by the borrower.
Access of information to the public
Madam Speaker, currently lenders have limited information regarding the borrowers. For example, if a lender is considering a loan to a small or medium size enterprise, one of the biggest deterrents is the possibility that the borrower has already given its assets as collateral to another lender which evolves into a dispute involving lenders concerning whose debt is superior to the other.
The Bill will therefore create a reliable and affordable public registration system to allow lenders and the public to see which assets have been pledged as collateral by the borrower which will assist the lenders in making a more informed business decision when advancing a loan.
Benefits of a Collateral Registry
The expected benefits of a Collateral Registry are as follows:
- Promoting financial inclusion since most economic agents, including SMEs, women, youth and other under-banked groups currently experience challenges in accessing financial services due to lack of immovable property often required for collateral purposes;
- Increased access to credit through reducing the risk of credit;
- Improving competition in the financial sector by enabling both banks and non-bank financial institution to offer secured loans; and
- Reducing cost of credit through reduced interest rates as economic units move from informal to formal financing.
Experiences in other countries
Madam Speaker, many countries regionally and internationally have established collateral registries over the last few decades. These include Liberia, Ghana, Malawi, Kenya, Lesotho, Rwanda, China, Peru, Mexico and Ukraine, among others.
Studies show that collateral registries have substantial economic impact. A study conducted in 2013 found that in countries that have introduced collateral registries, access to bank finance increased by 8% and the terms increased by six months whilst interest rates declined by 3% per annum on average.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker, the proposed Collateral Registry will bring substantial benefits to the economy including enhancement of the participation of MSMEs in the mainstream financial sector through the growth of secured lending in Zimbabwe.
In view of the anticipated benefits from the establishment of the Collateral Registry, I hereby table the proposals to introduce the new legislation for the establishment of a Collateral Registry before this august House for consideration.
I therefore move that the Movable Property Security Interests Bill
(H.B. 7, 2016), be now read a second time.
HON. CHAPFIKA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
rise to present the Portfolio Committee joint report of the Finance and Economic Development and Small and Medium Enterprises and Cooperative Development on the Movable Property Security Interests Bill (H.B. 7, 2016).
INTRODUCTION
The Movable Property Security Interests Bill which was gazetted on 28 November 2016, seeks to provide for use of movable property as security for purposes of obtaining loans from financial institutions. The Bill comes against the background in which government is stepping up its efforts to improve the ‘Ease of Doing Business’ in the country. The majority of Zimbabweans are facing challenges in securing bank loans, particularly capital to invest in their businesses, given that financial institutions require collateral security in the form of title deeds which most citizens do not have. Zimbabwean banks, which are the traditional sources of funding, are reluctant to provide loans to Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) and individuals who do not have immovable properties as collateral due to the high perceived risk associated with lending to SMEs and individuals. Therefore, the Bill will enable borrowers and lenders to recognize movable assets as collateral, thereby supporting credit financing secured with such assets. The Bill was well received by mostly Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) and individuals in general, as it will create an opportunity to secure credit much easier than before.
METHODOLOGY
The Portfolio Committee on Finance and Economic Development together with the Portfolio Committee on Small and Medium Enterprises and Cooperative Development resolved to analyse the Bill jointly since it largely affects the MSMEs which the latter Portfolio Committee superintends over. In order to solicit the views of the public on the Bill and consistent with Section 141 of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe, the two Committees conducted joint public hearings on the
Bill. The hearings were held from 20 to 24 March 2017 in Mutare, Marondera, Harare, Chinhoyi, Bindura, Masvingo, Gweru, Bulawayo,
Gwanda and Victoria Falls - thus ensuring that each of the country’s 10
provinces are consulted.
The two Committees would like to extend their sincere appreciation to all members of the public who participated during the hearings in their individual capacities and those that made written submissions as representatives of organizations. These include the
Bankers Association of Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe Chamber of Small and
Medium Enterprises, Microfinance Companies, Deposits Protection Corporation, lawyers and members of the public in general. Their valued contributions form part of this report with recommendations for consideration by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic
Development.
FINDINGS AND OBSERVATIONS
The Bill was welcomed by both prospective borrowers and financial institutions. For the borrowers, the Bill will unlock funding for their business activities as they would be able to borrow funds using an array of movable properties at their disposal. However, for the lenders, the Bill was received with some reservations as they sought clarification on some issues, as will be highlighted below.
Clause 2: Interpretation/Definitions
While a number of words and phrases have been defined in the
Bill, it was observed that some of the definitions lack depth and require further explanations so that they are unambiguous. For example,
“intangible assets” is defined as all types of movable assets other than tangible assets in the Bill. It was argued that this definition, if juxtaposed with the Kenyan Version, it includes receivables, deposit accounts, electronic securities and intellectual property rights. In Zambia, their Movable Property Security Interest Bill defines an intangible asset as including movable property, a financial contract, incorporeal rights, excluding goods, documents of title, securities, money and negotiable instruments. Thus, the comparison shows that the Zimbabwean Bill has to be more comprehensive to avoid misinterpretation and allow certainty of the law.
Clause 3: Application
This clause states that security interests in movable assets will no longer be registered as notarial bonds from a specified date. Members of the pubic welcomed the development, in particular, given the current challenges faced in the registration of notarial bonds. It was highlighted that the costs of registering notarial bonds were prohibitive and therefore a deterrent to investors. However, members of the public are hopeful that the registration fees for security interest in terms of the Bill will be more administrative than anything else. Thus, there is need to ensure that that borrowers are not overburdened with high security costs and therefore it is imperative that the registration fees be pegged at affordable levels, which will only cover the costs of operating the registry.
Clarity was also sought on whether it is mandatory or not to involve conveyancers in the registration of movable property as is the case with the registration of immovable property and notarial bonds.
Clause 4: Establishment of Collateral Registry
Whilst there were no objections with the establishment of a Collateral Registry, members of the public and business organisations pointed out the need to consider housing the registry under the existing Deeds Registry Office. This would ensure that one public office is responsible for matters relating to the registration of securities for movable and immovable assets. The Registrar must be a public officer in the same manner as the Registrar of Deeds and the Registrar of Companies.
There were also numerous calls for the registry offices to be decentralized so that borrowers do not travel long distances to register their security interests as this might increase costs. It is however, the
Committees’ understanding that creditors will register their security with the financial institutions who in turn will register these with the Collateral Registry electronically, hence there will be need for decentralization.
Clause 4 (3) provides for the position of the Registrar of Collateral
Registry, who shall be appointed by the Governor of the Reserve Bank.
This provision was found to be contrary to the powers given to the Governor in section 59 of the Reserve Bank Act. It was recommended by members of the public that such appointment be done in consultation with the Minister, for purposes of enhancing transparency. Clause 8: Enforcement of registered notices relating to security interests
The Committees noted that the Bill deals with fears expressed by financial institutions relating to delays that might be experienced when enforcing the security notice. The provisional sentence proceedings are acceptable as these avoid a trial process and according the security notice liquid document status.
Although the Bill affords the financial institutions protection by empowering a secured creditor to seize and take custody of the movable assets pending the grant of the provisional sentence, it is important to consider empowering the Deputy Sheriff or Messenger of Court to carry out such seizures. If this is not possible, requiring the presence of the police during the seizures would prevent any consequential problems. Prospective borrowers expressed concern over the issue of sale procedures during enforcement of the contract. The Bill should ensure that neither of the parties lose out by factoring in the issues of depreciation of the asset and undervaluing of the assets. Some members of the public proposed that assets be disposed of only after the creditor and debtor have agreed to a reserve price.
Clause 9: Registered Notices and other Entries in Collateral
Registry to be conclusive proof of rights and obligations The clause provides that the registered notice will be conclusive proof of the rights and obligations of the parties. However, it was highlighted that there was need for the notice to have a detailed account of the rights and obligations of the parties in the same way as the security agreement. There was also need to clarify on which of the two takes precedence, i.e. between the notice and the security agreement in terms of the rights and obligations of the parties. Stakeholders also suggested deletion of the word “purporting” in Section 9(2) which is misleading. Documents issued by the Registrar should have a standard format and should follow the prescribed format for it to be admissible in court, as the term “purporting” could be ambiguous.
Clause 11: Regulations
Although the Bill has significant detail on the registration process of security interests, the Regulations to the Bill need to be promulgated immediately after the enactment of the law. It is envisaged that the Regulations will specify the registration costs, the acceptable list of movable assets and the prescribed documents, among other issues to be regulated. The Committees recommends that extensive consultations be done before the Regulations are gazetted.
Clause 17: Period of Effectiveness of Registration of Notice
The clause states that the period of effectiveness of the registration of an initial notice may be extended more than once. Section 17(3) should therefore provide for the maximum number of extensions for the period of effectiveness of the registration of an initial notice.
First Schedule Part III, Clause 10 (4) and 21(2) – Rejection of registration of notice or search request and Search results
The clause provides that if the registration of a notice or a search request is rejected, the Collateral Registry must communicate the reason to the registrant or searcher without delay. Members of the public submitted that there should be a specific time frame for such communication as the word delay is not explicit. The time period within which the Registrar is required to issue an official search certificate indicating the search result should also be specific.
First Schedule, Part III – Clause 22 (1) Errors in required information entered in notice
The clause provides that an error in debtor identifier renders the registered notice ineffective. Stakeholders submitted that the validity of a registered notice should not be affected by any defect, irregularity, omission or error in the registered notice unless the defect, irregularity, omission or error in the registered notice is of a material nature and is seriously misleading.
Mandatory Insurance
The Bill should also clarify how movable assets, which are prone to fire, theft, death and other hazards should be treated. There might be need to consider mandatory insurance policy on all movable assets that are offered as security in order to protect both parties from possible losses that may occur.
Valuation of Movable Assets
Members of the public and business organisations raised concerns over the valuation process of the movable assets, given that movable assets depreciate in value. Thus, the valuation process must be able to protect both parties involved in the loan transaction. It was proposed that the regulations classify assets based on their ability to sell on the market, given that second hand goods are being used as collateral.
Property Registered in the Husband’s Name
Some participants sought clarity on how the Bill will deal with women who would want to secure loans using property registered in the husband’s or spouse’s name whichever case may be – either husband or wife. This was raised in light of our African cultural practice where the family’s assets are registered in the husband’s name as head of the family.
COMMITTEES’ RECOMMENDATIONS
The Committees recommends the following in Parliament’s quest
to improve the Bill:
That Insurance policies should be mandatory for all movable assets to be used as Collateral.
That appointment of Registrar of the Collateral Registry should be done in consultation with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to enhance transparency.
That a clause be included in the Bill to provide for assets registered in the spouse’s name to be used by the either spouse subject to consent of either party.
That the term ‘intangible asset’ be clearly defined.
That the Bill provides a mechanism for determining the depreciation of movable assets.
That the Bill be specific on the time frames within which the Registrar must issue reasons for rejecting a search request and the issuance of a search certificate.
That the Minister of Finance and Economic Development should promulgate regulations as soon as the Bill becomes law in order to operationalise it.
CONCLUSION
The Bill was widely accepted by the members of the public and business organisations as very progressive since it has the potential to unlock the much needed financial resources and will boost economic activities particularly in the SMEs sector. The Bill is, therefore, recommended for adoption, subject to the proposed amendments for the Hon. Minister’s consideration.
HON. KHUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would also like to add my voice to this very important debate on the Movable Property Security Interest Bill. I would like to add on to what the Chairperson has just presented. I would like to speak about an issue which is very close to my heart.
Madam Speaker, it is a fact that Zimbabwe is highly informalised, with more than 5.4 million people in the informal sector. It is also a fact that more than 78% of those people are women. Women have tried to go to financial institutions to borrow money, but financial institutions look at women as people who are not credit worthy because they do not have either immovable or movable property which is registered under their names and hence that is why we are advocating for a women’s bank which will not require collateral in the traditional banking sense but rather would harness the trustworthiness of women as an asset in business.
However, as far as this Bill is concerned, for the sake of this Bill, I would also like to add my voice and propose that women be allowed use property which is registered in their husband’s names as collateral so that they are able to access loans from financial institutions. It is a fact that the majority of women as I said earlier on do not have any property either movable or immovable which is registered under their names. Therefore, they are not able to access any loans from the banks, so we want women who are the majority in the informal sector to be able to access loans so that they are able to grow their businesses and contribute to the growth of this country and the economy for the good and better life of every Zimbabwean. So, I would like to buttress what the
Chairperson said, to say the Minister must consider allowing women to use property which is registered under their husbands as collateral so that they are able to access loans from financial institutions. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. First of all I would want to thank the Minister for coming up with this Bill which is very noble since the SMEs sector has been much affected because they could not easily borrow from the financial institutions. I am actually happy with the issue that there is no dispossession of the security item, one would remain with that security item and it will continue to be used. However, people out there are actually worried about the payment period which these financial institutions usually give. If you are borrowing small amounts, repayment period of at least three months to six months may not be feasible and then people will end up with their security items being dispossessed as they will be sold out, as it is now. So, that issue should be thoroughly addressed so that the security items are not going to be sold if the repayment period becomes small.
The other issue is about the insurance of such of security items. I think the Bill should also address the cost of insurance; it will also affect the cost of money. So, when those two issues are addressed, I think members of the public, specifically the SMEs will benefit. I thank you.
HON. CHAKONA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
would like to first of all thank the Minister for bringing this Bill before this House, a Bill which is very critical especially in some of our constituencies that are rural based.
Madam Speaker, I would also want to thank the Minister especially on the creation of collateral registry system which is very imperative in so far as this Bill is concerned. Madam Speaker, I also just want to comment on the main benefits of the Bill itself, especially on the financial inclusion that we are also now including in the financial sector, those that are marginalised and especially those in the rural areas. They also now have access to financial resources to increase productivity and to increase their operations.
Madam Speaker, as we move towards value addition and beneficiation which is part of our Government’s pre-occupation at the moment, the creation of a financial base for those that have the means of production would automatically mean that they can equip, retool themselves in order to increase productivity and value addition.
Another issue Madam Speaker, one of increased credit worthiness amongst our populace, the majority of our people are in the rural areas and they do not have title deeds to their land. They do not have title deeds to stands they have at growth points. So, the creation of this Bill unlocks value and means of productivity amongst our people. Competition itself is very important in the financial services sector where in, the more the customers, the less the interest rates will become.
However, I just want to touch on a few issues. Madam Speaker, the liberation struggle itself was actually fought in order to unlock value amongst our people and this Bill really fulfills the major objective of the liberation struggle itself where people wanted equality; equal treatment as human beings, right to access financial systems, right to access financial models and stuff like that. I think this is one of the fulfillment of the liberation struggle.
Since time immemorial, Madam Speaker, the economic power of an African was always found in his livestock; it was always in his farming land in the rural area - that is where the economic power of an African has always been. Now, the inclusion by the Minister of that particular sector of our people means that the majority of the people who are in the rural areas will now have access to financial resources. Our people in the rural areas have got the livestock, land but that land cannot be colletarised as a result of the non-existence of title deeds. So, I want to thank the Minister for that.
Another issue is that since the majority of our people are in the rural areas, their access to financial resources has been limited as a result of their unavailability of the financial sector itself in that particular area. So, the creation of this Bill will obviously mean more banks will go into the rural areas and then people will have access to the banking sector; which means there is more money that will circulate in our economy. The more the banks are out there, the more money will be circulated in the banking sector.
On recommendations, I just want to recommend one thing. Our people have this tendency of not paying back loans and we have seen it especially loans that are Government initiated and driven. I think it is important that in the Bill, there is a clause that mandates people to repay loans so that we create a revolving fund for the economy.
Again, also the creation of credit bureau, whilst the collateral registry system is going to be there but we also need a credit bureau to vet and assess loans and the type of collateral that will be pledged by any applicant. So, it is important that there be a credit bureau like the financial credit bureau which was created by the financial service sector. So, this other credit bureau will be there to register the collateral and at the same time vet the collateral when somebody is pledging it. Those are my recommendations, I thank you.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to support this Bill and to commend the Hon. Minister of Finance for coming up with this Bill. I also do not want to pretend that this is by any means a very simple and straightforward task that we are setting up for ourselves as a country. We need to appreciate that by enabling our people to be financially included; we are also creating a greater market for financial task. We are also creating the possibility of our people to be swindled by various people that may be approaching them for purposes of advancing loans to them.
I wish to raise just a few points that we need to consider. I want to suggest that before this law becomes operational, the Ministry effects a roll out programme. This programme will educate our people to understand precisely what is going on so that the institutions that are going to be playing critical parts in this exercise in particular the
Reserve Bank, understand and prime themselves for the mammoth task that they are going to be playing in order for the policy that underlies this law to be effective.
Central Banks the world over have an obsession with security and are not primed to have the multitudes of people that are going to be interested in the type of exercise that underlies this law. The Reserve
Bank will have to principally prepare itself for the many people that will be coming to its offices in Bulawayo and Harare. I say this against the backdrop of having worked there for over two decades. It is not primed for hundreds and hundreds of people who may want to access the Registry at the Reserve Bank. One would have thought that there will be a very strong need for the Reserve Bank to decentralise itself to be able to effectively serve the people that will want to access the Registry.
This is where I have a fundamental issue with the housing of the Registry at the Central Bank. I can see very serious limitations with the space. For example, limitations of visitors at the Central who may want to access this Registry. I am sure that if the Ministry visits countries where the Registry is housed at the Central Bank, it will have very clear ideas on how this has been done. So, there is a fundamental need for us to have a practical appreciation as to how others have implemented this on the ground. I would like to emphasise that at a practical level, we need to understand what the implications are.
I am happy that issues of valuation have been considered because I am sure as we begin to operationalise the contents of this Bill, we will begin to deal with very real and practical aspects of what the implications of the Bill are. I would like once again, to thank the Minister for coming up with this Bill which will help our people to be financially included. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me
this opportunity to air my views on this Bill. Like my colleagues who came before me, I would like to applaud the Hon. Minister for coming up with this Bill. It is a Bill that shows creativity on the part of the Executive in trying to empower the majority of our population. Contrary to the other Bills that sought to empower the black people especially one that sought to loot what we did not create, I strongly believe that this is a Bill which is going to empower our people without unnecessarily looting from other people.
So, we want to applaud the Hon. Minister for coming up with this Bill. I honestly believe that this Bill is going to open up room for entrepreneurship skills in our people because it is going to make it easy for the small business people to access loans. Hon. Speaker, I believe that as good as this law is, like one Hon. Member indicated earlier on that there is need for further dissemination of information so that everyone becomes at equal level in terms of understanding how this law is going to operate.
I also foresee a scenario that during the incubation of this law, we are going to see a lot of resistance especially from the financial institutions and uncertainty in the market. I believe that it is important that the Executive comes up with measures to deal with that level of resistance and that level of uncertainty as this is a new development in the economy. Therefore, as a new development it is important that we give assurance to the finance sector so that they can come aboard as quickly as possible into this new development.
I also want to say that whilst some colleagues of mine were indicating that women should be allowed to use property that is owned by their spouses or that is jointly owned in marriage, it is my belief that this law should be sensitive to such property so that we do not see our society being affected by situations where one of the spouse would, without the agreement of the other take movable property and leave it as security in order to get a loan for a business, which usually will be run by only one of the spouses, not jointly owned by the family.
Hon. Speaker, I think during the public hearings, one thing that we also realised was that this Bill does not have a lower limit of the amount of money that it caters for or the amount of loan that can be borrowed by a person who takes movable property to the financial institution. I believe that it is important, although the Minister of Finance is not listening, I think it is important that...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO)
Order Hon. Member.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes, he was not listening Hon Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is not your duty to say that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: He was busy speaking but I am saying the Bill needs to come up with a lower limit of how much people can borrow using the movable assets. This is because if we do not set a lower limit, it means that when I am broke and I need money to go and buy beer, I can simply take a movable property to go and secure a loan of $20 or $200. In reality, that loan will not equip our business because what we want to achieve is to ensure that our people are equipped in terms of business. So, it is important that we set at least a lower limit of the amount of loan that can be secured using this Bill. I also propose that it is important that the Bill should set guidelines through which the two parties that want to agree on a loan should determine the value of the movable property that is being used as collateral security. If we do not do that and leave it entirely up to financial institutions, as currently is the case, to state the value of collateral security, the danger is that we will see a lot of movable property being secured as collateral for an insignificant loan amount. This will not have an impact in terms of what this Bill desires to achieve. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
HON. ZINDI: I also rise to lend my support to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development on this very important piece of legislation. However, allow me to say that this law will not operate in a vacuum. This is the angle that I want to come in and lend my support. In other words, all the other policies; for example, the Ease of Doing Business should be at the back of our minds when we start implementing this kind of law. We have seen that most of our businesses experience so many difficulties to the extent that people get discouraged from operating their businesses simply because of too many levies and statutory requirements that business people ought to observe and pay. So, we are not going to implement this piece of legislation in a vacuum but in relation to all other policies which we are saying are positive in terms of making sure that our businesses operate profitably and does not discourage the entrepreneurs. I am saying so because our economy has become so informalised and the majority of our people are in the informal sector so, the laws ought to be user friendly. I can give an example of the Shop Licensing Act; so many levies are required. I am happy at least that Government has realised the importance of ease of doing business and I am sure that law is going to be tabled in this House in order to facilitate business other than to hinder progress in profitability of businesses.
At the same time, the taxman, ZIMRA, ought to come up with user friendly compliance laws because when you look at how ZIMRA enforces compliance, most people end up closing their businesses. Just two or three days ago, I was reading in the media that most businesses, particularly those small businesses have closed shop because of the pressure they are getting from ZIMRA. So, I am coming in and lending my support to Hon. Minister Chinamasa for unlocking the value of our country, financially, by inclusion of the moveable assets but these laws ought to be in support of ease of doing business. The taxman should not end up being termed ‘harassment’ by entrepreneurs or by business people.
The other issue I would also want to raise for the attention of the Minister is the issue of cost of money. There are processes which one goes through to access a loan. There are costs that come with it. I will give an example of the commercial banks. The registration process can end up taking close to $10,000 if you borrow $30,000 and you will be left with $20,000 yet effectively, one would have applied for $30,000 for the business to be viable. So, the cost of money also ought to be looked at in terms of facilitating what we think is meaningful to the lower end of the market who are our poor people, the youths and the majority of women who are in the informal sector. Therefore Mr. Speaker, having pointed out these areas of concern in terms of making sure that our laws are speaking to each other in terms of facilitating business, it is important to ensure that this law facilitates entrepreneurship growth and also protects the reserved sector, which is the retail industry where most of our people are found engaging in such economic activities. We need a law to protect that reserved sector. I thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: I would like to applaud the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development for coming up with this Bill Movable Property Security Interests. It is very important in that it is going to empower people, especially those in the informal sector who were not able to access loans due to non-availability of collateral. As we were going round during public hearings, in Chinhoyi, we came across graduates who felt that they were not being included in this Bill because they have no security, collateral or jobs. So, Hon. Minister, would you please consider this group of people.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I also stand to add my voice to the Bill, which is very good. I want to say a few things concerning, especially us, who come from rural areas. This Bill is good because people can now access loans but the access that I am talking about is that as I speak right now, there are people who are losing their property because they took loans hoping to repay after harvesting. Unfortunately, there was no rain for a couple of years and that affected them and now they are losing their properties. This is a very good Bill but people should be protected so that when they access the loans for farming purposes and do not get good yields, it should be understood. Currently, they are losing their property because they cannot pay back. Where they rush to get loans, the movable property that one can take can have a value of US$6000. On that value, there is administration fee wanted and insurance is also needed. So, they end up getting that money as US$4000 instead of
US$6000. Over and above that, the interest rates here in Zimbabwe, that are being charged by the banks, are not fair. They are not justified considering we are using the United States dollar. If you are charged 10% interest per US$1, you are destroyed. So, we can be happy and applaud all this, but the interest that is being charged by the banks is unbearable. I once mentioned it here and people laughed at me when I said the point-of-sale machines were good and you said the interest charge was too much, but I was happy when the Minister reconsidered after realising that surely, people were losing money.
This Bill is very good and it would be good to have certain amounts that can be borrowed because, especially with women, if you tell them that money is now accessible using movable property, they will rush to get loans and that money will not be repaid. This is a good Bill, but we should consider how we can protect our nation to ensure that they do not lose their properties.
My issue was on the interest on the loan borrowed. The issue was that our colleagues, the women, we might make them happy, but they should be careful. Secondly, I am not saying women only, even the drunkards who want money to go and buy beer can access those loans and end up getting their wives into problems without any property at home. I stood up to also talk about the interest rates to say that once loans are borrowed, the interest rates should be reviewed. Some may take the loan to buy fertilizer and the yield is not good enough and they lose out.
On US$10 000 or US$20 000 - if you are charged interest over one or two years, you are unable to repay that because the amount becomes exorbitant. So, our request is that the Minister should protect the people of Zimbabwe who will access these loans so that if we do not achieve very good yields, that should be understood. I thank you.
HON. SANSOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think we have all agreed that the Bill will go a long way in facilitating access to finance for SMEs and individuals who do not have movable property that they can pledge as collateral.
I just want to point out that at the moment, micro finance institutions are actually accepting movable property as collateral, but then the difference is that they insist upon the collateral to be placed in their possession. So, that becomes a challenge to someone operating a business. Imagine someone who operates a garment making business being required to surrender their sewing machine because they want to borrow money. They are no longer able to generate money to repay that loan or someone operating a commuter omnibus business being required to surrender their commuter omnibus vehicle to the money lender in order to access finance. It becomes a problem to raise money to pay back that loan.
So, with the establishment of the collateral registry, that will no longer be necessary because the collateral registry will take care of that, but I think the Bill needs to go further to actually outlaw that practice so that borrowers are protected and do not lose their assets in the process of securing loans. Also, measures need to be taken to ensure that assets that are pledged as collateral are not fully depreciated before the loan is extinguished and I think the value of the loan and the lifespan of the loan needs to be matched to the amount that is borrowed. So, I think also, problems associated with the registration of livestock used as collateral needs to be addressed so that those livestock that are registered as collateral are actually easily identifiable. Those are the points I needed to add to this Mr. Speaker. I thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I also rise to just amplify in support of what I consider and perceive to be a very important Bill. A very important Bill in the sense that it is immediately going to open the flood gates to development and growth. Also, it is punctuating a good and positive signal coming from Government in terms of creating a conducive environment for ease of doing business.
I say this Hon. Speaker Sir, because most of our economies in developing countries or in the third world countries are being affected by the laws, rules and policies that we institute as countries and the legal morass has been the centre of the downward flow of economic activity, but this Bill is going to be very important in terms of inviting more economic players, more participants and I would have four reasons why I urge members to support this Bill.
The first important reason why this Bill must be supported by all members is the ability to unlock dead capital. There is what is called dead capital which was invented by Hernando de Soto from Peruvia. In his study he said US$9.3 trillion is entrapped in middle class and poor classes the world over because emerging economies are not able to immediately tap into the so called dead capital or under utilised assets. So clearly, once we allow movable property to be hypothecated and to be also monetised, we are going to immediately unlock that dead capital, but we are also going to invite more players. Instead of just having big players, we are now translating our economy into being an economy for
all.
It used to be an economy for big banks, an economy for the propertied class in terms of immovable property, but once we have done what we are doing, Hon. Speaker, we are going to immediately unlock fundamental capital, resurrecting dead capital into live capital, resurrecting the yester year capital into today’s capital and that is very important because immediately, we will then be able to move our economy to a higher standard, to a higher level and I think it is a very positive development and we must support it.
You are aware – I have read what is called the ‘Centre Periphery
Thesis’ from Andre Gunder Frank and also Walter Rodney on ‘How
Europe Underdeveloped Africa’. You will find that most of our economies are under developed because we have not moved a step further to allow for our own circumstances to define the kind of economy we have, which leads me to the second point and I would like the Hon. Minister to take note of this. We have been operating on a template of Rhodesian policies and Rhodesian laws. For the first time, we are moving from Rhodesian laws to Zimbabwean laws. We are now legislating for – [AN HON. MEMBER: From Rhodesian law?]- Yes from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe. So, I call them Rhodesians from Rhodesia.
I know that it is a Queen’s language, so I understand. We are moving to entrench developing economies by making sure that we have effective growth strategies for those economies. The only way we are going to be able to do this is when we are able to implement laws and policies that will speak to our circumstances.
In Rhodesia, they would say immovable property was the only form of property respected and honoured by banks. For the reason that our people were unable to have that kind of property, they were almost shut out and were not part of the mainstream of the economic activities. Now, we are moving into the movable property where most of our people own certain movable property, and we will be able to involve them in terms of participation and inclusion.
The third point, this Bill is automatically going to introduce financial inclusion at the highest level. It is going to create what we have seen as a shadowy economy being translated into a mainstream economy. We must be able to understand the circumstances of our people so that we move that which has been hitherto, regarded as shadowy economy into what is our obtaining economy. That way, we will have inclusion to a greater extend of most of our people. Once we have financial inclusion alongside the dead capital which we are releasing, we will be able to realise new models which will speak to fundamental issues of the means of production in terms of what we own and what we have. So, it is a very important Bill and it has to be supported.
I am also particularly very happy with the creation of a bureau that will deal with people who have borrowed. That way, you cure the mischief that we have seen in the banks where people develop a penchant of borrowing and not honouring their obligations. However, once we have that, we are then going to have credit credibility in terms of how certain people do business. Your pattern and track record will speak for itself. With modern ICT digital platforms, you are able to say, this person is a ‘do not touch,’ that one is ‘to do business with.’ It is a very important and creative provision of the Bill which I have seen and I think it is a commendable one which we have to support.
More importantly and my last point Hon. Speaker Sir on why I moved to support this Bill; a lot of our people in the rural areas are unbanked and under-banked. However, once we are able to look at these assets which are entrapped in the dead capital, we will be able to bank the unbanked. How do we have the banking of the unbanked? Immediately, we are going to the rural areas and see banks having a lot of interest because by law, we will now be having assets in the rural areas being recognised and acknowledged. This is going to give a major boost to our economy as we rebuild our country.
I want to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing such a positive Bill. I do not know what has been happening of late Hon. Speaker Sir. It would appear there is a fresh breath, a breeze of wisdom that is blowing through Government and it must be appreciated – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – This is a very nice breeze. We are beginning to see some very technically sound Bills coming, not corrosive, atrocious or seeking to take away people’s rights but to entrench the rights of our people and the dignity and integrity of Zimbabweans. It must be applauded Hon. Minister. If you may continue to associate with this kind of spirit, we will continue to help you. However, if you bring your old – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Alright I will leave that one, but if you continue on this path, we will support you and encourage you to make sure that you continue on this path. The pastoral bit got a bit of me – [Laughter.] – Thank you very much.
HON. SHAMU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to add my voice to this very important debate which I feel does speak to the economic policies of ZANU PF – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very clear that an analysis of the current developments in the country underscores the fact that the majority of economic activities in the country are carried out by Small to Medium Enterprises (SMEs). Hence, Government through the wisdom of His Excellency, saw it necessary to have a Ministry headed by Hon.
Nyoni in existence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill, which the Hon. Minister had aptly presented to this honourable House, clearly defines the best way of fighting poverty. The best way of fighting poverty is to capacitate small businesses, corner vendors, the village cobbler, growth point grocery shops, clothing tailors and the various small business enterprises that we have. Mr. Speaker Sir, small as they are, collectively they are a special economic group that requires serious support from all institutions that are responsible for money lending business. Hence, I feel that this Bill has a very important role to play.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to underscore this point which has been touched slightly, though in a different way by Hon. Chinotimba; that lack of finance to SMEs will see them resorting to borrowing money from money lenders whose average interest rate of 30% per month are too heavy for any business cash flows to carry. Hence, we feel that this Bill was long overdue.
Furthermore, it is now very necessary that all local authorities should formulate SME supportive by-laws so that they begin to charge reasonable licence fees and levies and adopt policies and methods of policing those policies that have a human heart. Mr. Speaker Sir, at the end of the day, the bigger picture is, we need to gravitate towards creating an environment, where the people of Zimbabwe will indeed be capacitated to be able to control the means of production. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Are you able to see through those spectacles?] – I can see you clearly. One of my eyes was scratched whilst I was harvesting maize. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just want to add one sentence to the Bill that is before us in this House. This Bill was long overdue because the liberation struggle was fought for the black people to be equal to the white people who were in the minority. This was realised when the Land Reform Programme took place and Zimbabweans were given their farms. Before, they had lost their farms to the white farmers because they did not have collateral to engage in commercial farming. The spirit of the liberation struggle has now returned to say that even cattle or any property can now be used to get a loan from the banks.
The President said for 2018 to be a successful year in Zimbabwe, people should engage in farming. The Hon. Minister said movable property should be used for collateral. Whether it is movable or immovable, one can now access a loan.
Hon. Mliswa having passed between the Hon. Member speaking and the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order Hon. Mliswa. You cannot pass between the Member debating and
the Chair.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I said that
movable property should be registered according to the Bill, so it is a welcome development. Those in the rural areas whom we represent can form groups or cooperatives and bring their resources together where their movable property can be valued. They can be given loans to ensure that each one can farm one or two hectares. Who then will not be able to engage in productive farming? In 2018, we will have a lot of food and there will be no challenges; everything will work according to plan as what has been said by the President, Cde. R.G. Mugabe.
My only wish is that this Bill should be expedited to ensure that those in the A1 schemes are able to access loans and also that they should insure their scotch carts and property in order to engage in productive farming. Others may say that in the case of cyclones and other disasters, the property should be insured. We should understand that there are low and high risks. You cannot fail to insure your property for $500 and yet your collateral is for $10 000. This Bill should come. The two million jobs that are mentioned in ZIM ASSET will be created because everyone will be engaged in production. Each one will have machinery or something and be able to access loans.
This is amazing Mr. Speaker Sir. We should expedite this Bill because we are behind time. Those that might be a challenge are those who may have run out of ideas, who have gone to access loans but have failed. If they take their movable property like scotch carts and other property, they can get the loans. 2018 might be a challenge to them but in short, this is a very good Bill and it is a welcome development for all of us. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I feel over the moon by the overwhelming support that Hon. Members have given to this Bill. I feel heartened by the efforts that we made in coming up with this piece of legislation. I would want to echo what Hon. Chamisa said that this is a Bill which is recognising the reality of our situation as we speak, the reality that our economy now is highly informalised. I am the Minister responsible for our commercial banks and the more I have been thinking about it, the more I am feeling sorry for our commercial banks because it is very clear.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, what is your point of
order?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, when the Minister is responding, if it could be possible for Members just to honour our Ministers so that they respond in silence. It is so disrespectful. When our Ministers are responding, you find some Hon. Members will be whispering and they will not be whispering meaningful things. They will be talking about things irrelevant to the House and we are talking about making the law for the nation. It is very important that we give the honour to our Ministers – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Next time, you would want to be Ministers. Some may not be Ministers but it is good just to have good habits. Even if you are not going to be a Minister, let us respect our Ministers. Even when we become Ministers, please respect us. It is very important – [Laughter.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Order Hon.
Members. That is a very pertinent observation from Hon. Chamisa. The Minister is responding and others are discussing some issues that are not relevant to the debate. What are we here for? What do we take to our constituencies? Gossiping? Hon. Minister, you may continue.
HON. CHINAMASA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was saying that I am the Minister responsible for our commercial banks and the more I think about our reality, I understand how they operate. They do not seem to understand the movement of the situation that is taking place in our economy. They are still mired in practices of the past and not relating to the reality of our situation. Our economy now is highly informalised and as a result, the commercial banks continue to apply very outdated, obsolete engagement methods with the clients. They do not go out to the clients. They wait for the clients to come to them and then they talk of business plans and so forth, which in reality may not have a meaning to small businesses.
I would want to say this Mr. Speaker Sir, that as Minister of Finance, the Governor of the Reserve Bank is obliged bi-annually to report to me on the activities of macro finance institutions. He did a report which I received last week and I would want to share that report with Hon. Members. I am going to produce copies to circulate to Hon. Members so that they read and understand what is already beginning to happen amongst our people. It is something quite amazing, the growth in the credit to small scale individuals and SMEs is on the rise and that is without even the security which I am going to provide here. Basically what I am saying Mr. Speaker Sir, when this Bill is enacted into law, I see exponential growth in credit which will unlock the potential of this economy.
Mr. Speaker, let me now come to the specific contributions made by Hon. Members. I thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Finance and Economic Development. I am heartened that in fact they made a joint effort with the Portfolio Committee on Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative Development. That is how it should be, because the major focus of this Bill is on small and medium sized enterprises. Those unbanked and unserved enterprises that are in our economy had no access to credit. That is the major thrust of this Bill.
So, I am very happy with that joint effort by these two Portfolio Committees.
As I have already said Mr. Speaker Sir, I will certainly circulate the report from the Governor on the activities of the macro finance institutions. There are now 185 of them and I think that about four of them are deposit taking and there is now out there about $250 million credit to individuals and small scale enterprises. This Bill will go quite some way to increase the level of that credit. So, I am happy that also the public received this Bill and is supporting it to the hilt.
With respect to the observations made Mr. Speaker Sir, I am going to engage the Portfolio Committee with a view basically to go throuth the suggestions for amendment and those which I think can be taken on board, I will certainly do so - which means, that is the way that I am going to operate. Today I hope that the august House can do the Second Reading and we can postpone to another day for Committee Stage so that we have enough time to discuss amendments before the Bill becomes a law.
The clarifications which were sought about intangible assets, I thought that Hon. Chamisa the lawyer, was going to help me to explain to the House what are intangible assets –[HON. CHAMISA: I understand.]- You understand, you should have done that without prompting from me. But clearly for lawyers, it is very clear. It comes from the Latin word, ‘tangible’, means to touch. Anything that can be touched is tangible. Anything that you cannot touch, which is incorporeal, that is what becomes now intangible assets and these include, intellectual property, trademarks, brands, goodwill and so on, they cannot be touched, but they are asset all the same. As long as these assets can be recorded and registered, they will become available to operate as security.
Clearly I agree with the observations of the Committee that, the view of the borrowers was that this will unlock potential of their businesses – no doubt about that. Also the issue about notarial bonds, clearly I agree that the cost of registering a notarial bond is very expensive and what this Bill is going to do is to bring a more transparent registration system and this is why we are housing it. For as long as things are registered in the Deeds Office, they tend to be more dead capital than live capital, which is why there is the provision here that it becomes a department in the Reserve Bank. We are monetising assets which had no value before and only the Reserve Bank can understand that language and not the Deeds Registrar. The Deeds Registrar is just there to register and keep – whether people utilise the assets register there, it is neither here nor there for him. As far as he is concerned, they have been registered and he is a good keeper; he keeps his records that is
Now, I want us to have that mindset shift to say we are now going into the business of monetising whatever is movable – whatever we have from livestock, goats, sheep, chickens and what have you. We are now going to be in the business of putting value to those assets.
Clearly, conveyancers have no place here when we come to the registration system. I think I have already answered the recommendation to say, it should be under the Deeds Office – no. We want to monetise these assets. The issue about decentralsation; clearly for now, let us have a pilot scheme and we see how it evolves. In the event that there is demand for decentralisation, we will do so - but for now I think let us start it being resident in the Reserve Bank and as our people become electronic/digital, we will find that the issue about decentralisation may not even arise. I have noted the requirement that the appointment of a registrar should be with the approval of the Minister. Personally, we will incorporate it but clearly for me, I do not feel the need for it.
We will also look into the issues of course in our consideration of amendments into the issues raised on enforcement and on seizures so that we are clearly within the law and within the Constitution. I also notice and took note of the demand that the registration fees should be reasonable – that I think goes without saying.
The point made by the Committee that women should feel free to use assets which are belonging to their husbands. Yes, with their consent, I agree – no problem but without their consent – no; and vice versa – no. So, with consent, no problem but you cannot, if the car is registered in the name of a person, you cannot tomorrow just hear that it is now a security for a debt which you were never aware of. That cannot happen and in any case, the creditor cannot accept such security; because the creditor will know that without the consent of the person who owns the asset, there is going to be trouble ahead, and we do not want to expend a lot of time in quarreling over whose asset it is.
The recommendations about insurance policy, we will consider that. That the registrar be appointed with the approval of the Minister, we will also consider that. Then Hon. Khupe, I think that I have already answered her. She was quite passionate that women - and I do not think that she thought the reverse could also be true, that women should be allowed to use movable property in their husbands’ names. Yes you can but with the consent of the husband or by the husband with the consent of the spouse.
Hon. Mangami, thank you very much for the support for the Bill. I also thank Hon. Chakona for his support. Clearly what we are doing is towards promoting financial inclusion. Whether you are into production, whether of a secondary nature, value addition, you need access to credit and depending on your resources, we want to make it easier for people to receive that credit.
Hon. Chasi, thank you very much for your support. Again, you were raising a query about Central Registry but I think that you supported that it be housed at the Reserve Bank. Hon. Sibanda, thank you again for your support for the Bill and I agree with you that this is about empowering our people. This is about bringing our marginalised people into the mainstream of the economy and it is a very good effort that we are making. You make the point which I have already alluded to earlier that of possible resistance from the commercial banks but I want to say that I think any commercial bank worth its salt will now have a window which basically is going to address the needs of SMEs.
Thank you very much Hon. Zindi. In fact, what motivated this Bill is that in our exercise to carry out ease of doing business, this is how this Bill was spawned, it originated from that exercise. That exercise remains continuous as far as we are concerned. We are looking at sector by sector to understand what obstacles are standing in the way of ease of doing business. We will then take decisions to remove those obstacles and this Bill is a product of that exercise.
Hon. Zindi, you also raise the issue about ZIMRA. I want to say that when we have an informalised economy; in my situation, the problem is raising revenue. All of us want good service delivery and that good service delivery, whether we are talking about education, health, medicines, roads, irrigation schemes and so on; all that service delivery requires money. With an economy that is highly informalised, my problem is how to get the money. Essentially, what ZIMRA is doing is to identify people with income who are not paying taxes. There are people with income who are not paying taxes.
All they are doing is to follow up to understand who has income and one of the methods that they are using is that if you supply to an established trader, for instance you supply goods to TM or OK Bazaars, OK Bazaars are under legal obligation to withhold 10% of the price of goods that they bought from you. They withhold if you do not have a tax clearance certificate. It is ZIMRA’s way of identifying would be tax payers. If your money is withheld 10% because you are not able to produce a tax clearance certificate, when you go to ZIMRA and produce it, you will get your money back. But it is a way to identify who the emerging tax payers are. It is to build and broaden the revenue base.
Hon. Chinotimba, yes, you support the Bill but of course you raised an alarm about what will happen in a default. Life is about taking risks. If we agree that we do not take risks we will never develop. We must be able to take risks and a risk means you may lose that which you already have. But taking risks also means that you can quadruple the assets that you have. That is the risk. Infact, I always believe when I look at my close relatives; it is like I went to school to study too much about risk and not to take a risk. Some of my relatives who never went to school are much richer because they take risks - perhaps because they do not analyse and they do not get paralysed by analysis. They take risks and they make money. With me, we have to sit and analyse, take it to people who will further analyse and in the process I do nothing. The point I am making is that we need to encourage risk taking on the part of our people. That is the essence of business.
We must not mourn too much when things go wrong and then cry and say people must be protected. No, we will never progress. If you protect and then say do not lend money; if there is no lending of money, there is no business. We need to understand that equation that no risk, no money. The higher the risk, the higher the return.
Hon. Sansole thank you very much for your support. The hire purchase is already provided for in the Bill in terms of the amendments. It is very important that we take note that the asset you are providing as security, you remain the owner but you cannot do what you will during the time that you have pledged it in security. The whole concept of hire purchase is that yes, you are driving the car but the car is not yours. Also with lease title, yes, you will be using the asset but the asset is not yours until you finish paying for the asset.
Hon. Chamisa I thank you very much for the eloquence with which you have supported this Bill. You are quite right, we foresee the opening of flood gates to our economic development and turnaround. Already, I keep telling people that I sleep well because I see the stirrings of an economic recovery. I see the entrepreneurship that in fact, is very evident among our people. It is coming right across the economy and across all sectors. What is happening in the gold sector; you can ask Hon. Nduna or Hon. Matambanadzo - [HON. CHAMISA: He is not reliable.]- No, no, no, on gold he is very reliable. I do not know about other issues. Artisanal miners are now contributing 40% of our gold production. Last year it was 21.6 metric tonnes. 40% of that came from our artisanal miners.
If you look at what is happening with cotton and what is happening under Command Agriculture; just look at what is happening across the board, it is a very impressive record. It is something that cannot happen overnight but it is already beginning to happen. Please keep your eyes open, give it encouragement and not comment negatively on those who fail because a lot of them will make attempts, not everyone will succeed.
Our problem is that we have a culture of laughing at failure. Failure is a good basis for success. It teaches you very good lessons if you want to try again. I agree with Hon. Chamisa that we are in the process of unlocking dead capital. It is not just with movable assets but we are also doing it in the case of the land that we acquired under the land reform exercise. As you are aware, we are undertaking exercises to re-survey the new boundaries with a view to giving A1 permits and also with a view to giving 99 year leases which we have agreed with the banking sector will now be used as collateral.
As we are talking about movable property as collateral, we must also say, those who benefited under the land reform programme, you can apply for a 99 year lease and it will be collateral which means you can use that instrument to go and borrow for your capital development and your working capital.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I agree entirely with what Hon. Chamisa said, especially about the Rhodesia-Zimbabwe, he makes a very apt point. In fact, I did not expect that it will come from him but we must recognise when valid points are made from any quota. Our problem Mr. Speaker Sir, is that we still think in the old ways. We have all been damaged mentally by colonialism and we define ourselves in new terms. We should try very hard to define ourselves in new language, in new terms. Define ourselves as people who can do it. The major problem that we confront among our people is, the damage of colonialism made them feel they are incapable, made them feel they are just workers, they have to look for employment, made them feel they cannot be employers.
It is very catalystic. If you at children from the white community and children from the black community at same school. At the school in primary, the white boy is now saying, I am going to be an employer, yet the black boy is saying, I am going to look for employment. That is the mind shift that we have. As people mourn, where is employment? They never asked themselves, what employment am I creating for other people. All they can think is where is the employment? Who is going to give that employment to you and your community? Who is going to create it? Government cannot create employment. What Government can do is to create a conducive environment for those who are creative, who are entrepreneurs to create jobs and make money for themselves.
People should be asking us, coming to Government to say, please your environment is not conducive enough to do a, b, c and d. We are quite happy and we will listen. That basically, is what I think I need to add on to what Hon. Chamisa has said. The period we are going through in terms of the development of our economy is a transitional period. Formal businesses collapsed. I want to say that in 2000, there were two million people in formal employment. Over the years, because of the challenges that we have faced, we now have only half a million. This means the rest of the people are now in the informal sector.
According to the 2012 FINSCOPE survey, 5.8 million people are employed in the informal sector and there are 3.8 million businesses employing those 5.8 million people. So, it is very important for us to understand and situate ourselves as to where we are.
Thank you very much for the comment that you noticed that there is this fresh breeze blowing through Government. We took time to put our act together but we are now in full swing as we go to 2018. We are very clear where we are going, we have built the necessary consensus and you are going to see even more as we go in the next twelve months.
Hon. Shamu, thank you very much for your support for the Bill and I also want to thank Hon. Matangira for his support and for lamenting the delay in bringing this Bill before the House. With this response, Mr. Speaker Sir, I now move that the Bill be read for a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee: Wednesday, 12th April, 2017.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Mr. Speaker Sir, as Parliament and as parliamentarians, we must encourage the positive conduct and positive habits by our Ministers. Hon. Chinamasa has come in to say, our Portfolio Committee did a lot of work because these are ideas coming from the people and he is willing to embrace those ideas to effect changes. It is a very good thing. We must applaud it as Parliament and we want to thank you Minister. This is a positive development, it must be encouraged because it moves us forward. Thank you very much –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I
thought that was a well thought comment that was made by Hon.
Chamisa, what is the haaaa for?
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
ISSUANCE OF TREASURY BILLS AND BONDS
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to
make a Ministerial Statement on the Issuance of Treasury Bills and Bonds. Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministerial Statement provides important information about the issuance of Treasury Bills and Bonds by the Government of Zimbabwe. A Treasury Bill is a short term debt obligation backed by the Government with a maturity of less than one year. Bonds, on the other hand, have a maturity of more than one year.
I will use the acronym “TBs” to represent both Treasury Bills and Bonds.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my statement will cover the following critical areas: total issuance of TBs since 2014; TBs that matured and have been liquidated; outstanding TB maturities; and Government’s policy on effective management of domestic debt with a view to minimising the issuance of TBs. The Central Government issued TBs to raise money to fund its programmes as well as to address legacy issues that include servicing Government debt; the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) debt; Recapitalisation of Public Institutions; and takeover of collateralised Non-Performing Loans on the balance sheets of Commercial Banks by Zimbabwe Asset Management Corporation (ZAMCO).
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have appended supporting tables to my statement for the benefit of Hourable Members of Parliament and the general public and plead that they peruse these in the Hansard. Mr. Speaker Sir, Government remains fully cognisant of the need to effectively manage risk that is associated with over issuing of TBs in the market and the implication that it may cause.
Issuance of Treasury Bills
With respect to issuance Treasury Bills, the total value of Treasury Bills issued since 2014 stands at US$4.417 billion. A total of US$1.102 billion has since matured and been liquidated leaving an outstanding amount of US$3.315 billion as at 3rd March, 2017.
Table 1: Issuance of Treasury Bills
|
2014 |
2015 |
2016 |
2017 |
Total |
Amount Issued |
705,043,241 |
1,381,371,792 |
2,018,725,945 |
311,760,551 |
4,416,901,529 |
Matured and Liquidated |
(260,041,205) |
(648,832,382) |
(192,937,644) |
- |
(1,101,811,231) |
Outstanding |
445,002,036 |
732,539,410 |
1,825,788,301 |
311,760,551 |
3,315,090,298 |
Mr. Speaker Sir, 25% of the amount raised went towards the financing of Government programmes while 75% went towards dispensing with legacy debts as shown in Table 2.
Table 2: Utilisation of TB Proceeds
|
US $ |
% of total Issuance |
Financing of Government Programmes |
1,104,779,334 |
25.0% |
Government Debt |
1,686,780,970 |
38.2% |
RBZ Debt |
925,453,385 |
21.0% |
Capitalisation of Public Institutions |
196,878,384 |
4.5% |
ZAMCO |
503,009,457 |
11.4% |
Total |
4,416,901,529 |
100% |
Government has been honouring its obligations – I want to emphasise this. We have been honouring our obligations on the maturing Treasury Bills as demonstrated by a total of US$1.102 billion that has so far been repaid timeously. The breakdown of this amount is as set out in Table 3.
Table 3: Liquidation of matured TBs
Activity |
US$ |
|
% of amount raised for the activity |
Financing Government Programmes |
|
641,618,405 |
58.1% |
Government Debt |
|
382,320,006 |
22.7% |
RBZ Debt |
|
59,172,820 |
6.4% |
Capitalisation of Public Institutions |
|
0 |
0.0% |
ZAMCO |
|
18,700,000 |
3.7% |
Total |
|
1,101,811,231 |
24.9% |
Let me now turn to a brief discussion on the main areas that benefited from the resources mobilised through Treasury Bills.
Financing Government Programmes
Government occasionally goes to the market to raise resources to fund its critical expenditures such as infrastructure, production and recurrent expenditure among others. Government has been able to fund projects such as Tokwe-Mukorsi and other infrastructural projects as well as productive activities using Treasury Bills.
Under normal circumstances, such infrastructural project would have been funded by long-terms loans from Development Financial Institutions such as the World Bank and African Development Bank among others. However, this has not been possible for Zimbabwe given the country’s external debt overhang.
A total of US$1.105 billion was raised since 2014. Of this amount US$641,6 million has since matured and been repaid leaving an outstanding amount of US$463.2 million.
Table 4: Financing of Government Programmes
|
US$ |
Amount Issues |
1,104,779,334 |
Matured and Liquidated |
(641,618,405) |
Outstanding |
463,160,928 |
Issuances for the Financing of Government Legacy Debt
Mr. Speaker Sir, Government remains a major economic player in the market. It draws services from both private and public institutions.
These services should, however, be paid for. Unfortunately,
Government has, over the years, been “consuming” these services without paying for them resulting in the accumulation of domestic arrears.
Failure to pay by the Government for the services rendered negatively affected the operations of the local industry. Therefore, Government has since issued US$1.687 billion worth of TBs to meet its debt obligations to various local players since 2014.
A total of US$382.3 million worth of TBs have since matured and been honoured leaving an outstanding stock of US$1.304 billion.
Table 5: Financing of Government Legacy Debt
|
US$ |
Amount Issued |
1,686,780,970 |
Matured and Liquidated |
(382,320,006) |
Outstanding |
1,304,460,964 |
A number of firms in the production sectors have resuscitated their production due to the initiatives taken by Government to honour its commitments and legacy debts.
Assumption of RBZ Legacy Debt
Mr. Speaker Sir, the amounts issued towards the financing of the RBZ legacy debt were subject to validation and reconciliation according to the RBZ Debt Assumption Act, which was passed by this House not long ago. As a result, Government issued TBs worth US$925.5 million.
Of this amount, US$59.2 million has since been paid while a total of US$866.3 million remain outstanding as at 3 March, 2017.
Issuance for the Recapitalisation of Public Institutions
Public Institutions are essential vehicles through which Government influences economic activities. However, low capitalisation of such institutions has been negatively affecting the operations of some of these critical institutions.
In view of this, Government has extended a total of US$196,878 million towards recapitalisation of Public Institutions as set out in Table
6.
Table 6: Capitalisation of Public Institutions
Institution |
US$ |
Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe |
110,000,000 |
Agribank |
36,878,384 |
ZB Bank |
20,000,000 |
People’s Own Savings Bank (POSB) |
20,000,000 |
Small and Medium Enterprises Development Corporation (SMEDCO) |
10,000,000 |
Total |
196,878,384 |
Issuance for the financing of ZAMCO
Mr. Speaker Sir, with respect to issuance of TBs for financing ZAMCO, the financial services sector stability remains crucial for sustainable development. However, when we noted rising NonPerforming Loans (NPLs), we could see that this threatened to cripple the country’s financial services sector.
Government responded by establishing the Zimbabwe Asset Management Corporation (ZAMCO) that bought collateralised NPLs on the balance sheets of Commercial Banks. As at 3 March, 2017, the total NPLs bought by ZAMCO amounted to US$503,009,457.
This strategic initiative sought to:
- Give banks an opportunity to release resources that had been tied
up in NPLs so that they could continue to support economic activities throughout the country; and
- Help borrowers to restructure their facilities so that they would continue to service their loans at affordable interest rates over a relatively longer period. Banks tend to impose stringent conditions for customers who are in default, thereby pushing them further down
the cliff.
Government has also made a conscious decision to resuscitate CAPS Holdings and Cottco through warehousing their (these companies’) legacy debt under ZAMCO before Government fully takes up its equity.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I hope my statement will help address the speculation in the market regarding the amounts raised through the issuance of TBs, utilisation of proceeds, liquidation of maturing TBs and the outstanding stock of TBs.
Government has never defaulted on any of the maturing TBs. It is therefore, important for anyone who wants to comment on TBs to do so from an informed position and to always endeavour to get the correct information from either Treasury or the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Government is fully aware of the implications of TB issuance for the financial sector stability and economic growth. I thank you once again Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. May I find out from the Minister, if there are Treasury Bills which have been issued which have not been sold out? What has happened to SMEDCO and has anything happened so far in terms of their TBs? What is the role of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development if the TBs which were given to a particular institution, are not disposed? Do you claim them back what happens to them if they are not sold out within a period which you might have specified?
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just want to find out from the Minister whether there is communication or any meeting that is held between the company when it is bought, the debt from the bank and that person who initially owed that bank or that loan? Is there any meeting that is held between the two to advise the initial debtor that indeed your debt has now been assumed by this Government institution which is buying the debt from the banks? Thank you.
HON. HOLDER: I just want to find out from the Minister regarding to the Treasury Bills that have been issued. I did not hear him mention anything of Treasury Bills that were issued and were cashed in before maturity period; I never heard any of that information. Some Treasury Bills that were issued to certain companies and have actually been cashed in before the maturity period, I did not hear the Minister commenting anything on that. Thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you very much. I just want to seek
Clarification from the Minister; some of the Treasury Bills were used for the production sector. I just wanted to find out from him if the Command Agriculture which has been so successful was also a beneficiary of that?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you very much. I
want to thank the Hon. Members who are seeking clarification. This is a very important subject because; I think Hon. Members need to understand how we have been financing Government programmes. It is very important. We find ourselves in a situation where our major problem is low production, low exports and we realised that for as long as we do not address these two areas, we will remain forever in a vicious circle. We also found that there was an attitude by commercial banks to extend credit in that whatever credit was extended is too expensive and therefore it is basically extended to ruin the very businesses which are seeking the credit. So, the issuance of Treasury Bills has been targeting to keep the State ship afloat. We have been doing this by supporting the productive sectors, supporting those who were owed for services they rendered to Government but were near collapse and are strategic. We felt that we should identify those entities and support them and we pay them some of them, through Treasury Bills, I think it is about, US$1 billion that we forked out.
You raised the issue Hon. Mangami, about Treasury Bills with
SEDCO. I have supported SEDCO and again it has been in the form of
TB’s. Again, let us understand that TB is a debt instrument. In other words, I am borrowing money from the market to give it to them. It is a loan which has to be paid on maturity. Every TB will state the date of maturity and this is why I mentioned, repeatedly that we have never defaulted on any TBs that matured. We have always honored our obligations. If we had failed to honour, I am sure the market would have already said something about it but we have been conscious to keep the confidence of the market. We have never defaulted in honoring our obligations.
So, I have supported SEDCO and I think you also need to know of course that in my 2017 budget, I raised a presumptive tax on SMEs and I wring-fenced any revenues from that presumptive tax to go towards further capitalising SEDCO and we will be watching to see what the
falls are.
Hon. Gabbuza, you asked the question; an individual owes bank money, collateralised. Generally, the people who approach ZAMCO, it is not the bank; the bank is almost in speed or trying to achieve a sale in execution of the property. So, the person who approaches the ZAMCO is the debtor, the client of the bank. Then ZAMCO, will then negotiate with the bank and the bank is only too happy because as you will appreciate; on its balance sheet, is a non performing loan and I am happy to say that we have also to discount those loans as they come to
ZAMCO.
What I think you will need to understand is, how are we going to come out of this. Essentially, we have more faith in the future of this economy, maybe than the commercial banks themselves. We believe that when we take collateralised debt, including the immovable properties; these properties value, will appreciate and when the economy recovers, everyone should be able to end up very happy. We will get paid, the asset would have appreciated and the creditor will be able to dispose of that property for real value not for basically giving away prices as is the case at the moment. So, the person who is approaching ZAMCO is invariably, the debtor and then ZAMCO approaches the bank. An agreement is struck with respect to the conditions upon which the debt can be taken over.
Hon. Holder, like I mentioned, when a TB is issued, it has a maturity date say five years, but someone is so desperate, they may not be able to wait for those five years. He will go to someone where they will discount it. While it has a face value of US$100, the person may say if you give me US$50, I give you the debt instrument. So, generally it is transferable, so that happens. I am sure there are a lot of TBs which have been discounted in the market which are no longer with the original holder of that TB. As far as we are concerned, at the end of the maturity period, we pay what is on the face value. Whatever transactions may have happened between now and the maturity date have nothing to do with us; we pay whoever is holding it, the face value of the TB.
Hon. Mliswa, yes Command Agriculture has also benefited under the TB’s but as you can appreciate, this is not money borrowed and wasted. With the production that is quite evident this season, we are going to be paid back and will be quite happy that we will be able to retire a lot of these TBs easily, which is why now we are extending the Command Agriculture to cover this coming winter wheat programme and also to cover the 2017/2018 agricultural season. We are also in the process of expanding the scope of Command Agriculture. We hope this coming season we will expand it to include all seeds, soya beans, sunflowers and so on. This is because currently all the cooking oil companies are importing crude oil because there is no raw material in the form of cotton seed soya beans or sunflower seed. We want to cure that through support to producers of soya beans and oil seeds. This will add to the productive capacity of our country and our people. So, we use TBs in a very careful manner. I am very wary that I do not want it used for purposes of consumption because that will get me into serious trouble.
I have used TBs to complete the Tokwe-Mukorsi Dam. Tokwe Mukorsi was funded through the issuance of TBs. We now have an asset and we are looking into the issues to do with developing an irrigation scheme with a view to expanding the productive sector and increasing output which can be exported. That is what will give this country the economic recovery it deserves. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MLISWA: I am just standing as Hon. Member to appreciate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order at the back.
HON. MLISWA: I am just standing as an Hon. Member, to
appreciate the work that the Minister has put in. I must admit that I was one of the first people that thought that a lawyer would not be a good finance person, but I must withdraw that and say I have seen a man who has put in a lot of work into what he is doing. He is thorough and I think he must be commended for that especially when TBs are going into the aspect of production like command agriculture and Tokwe-Mukorsi, which is critical. I think it goes back to our theme when we went to Bulawayo, of Domestic Resource Mobilisation. If the local industry can be resuscitated through that, I think certainly we are on the right track.
Thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the Minister’s
explanation raises further areas of clarification and I need to seek those clarifications. We have ZAMCO buying bad debts from the banks. This person is failing to pay the bank but ZAMCO has bought that debt. Obviously, they are entering into payment arrangements with this bad debtor. The Minister has given us how much of the bad debts they have bought. Does he have figures of how much these bad debtors are paying back to ZAMCO? Is he happy with the response?
Secondly, if this person has been failing to pay the debt to the bank, does ZAMCO have the mandate to write off the debt and say this man is a bad debtor and so, let us cancel the debt because he is a bad debtor? This is because he is now banking on speculation and the value or the collateral is going to appreciate. Suppose it does not appreciate and the economy does not improve, what happens to this debt? ZAMCO is remaining with the debt. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Those are the risks that the
Minister has been talking about.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I find that when ZAMCO takes over these debts, they are always at the point of sale in execution. This means that this person’s business has collapsed but he had given that security. So, what ZAMCO is doing is merely to warehouse the debt until such time that there is good economic recovery. That is the risk that we are taking. Personally, I am sleeping well because I know the foundation that we have been laying and also see signs of economic recovery. It will be over time. I do not believe in miracles in terms of economic recovery but step by step, I can see things happening to recover our economy.
This august House needs to know that because of what we did and also contributed by these TBs with respect to command agriculture; anyone of you who is coming from a cotton growing area will see the miracle that has taken place this season alone. From last year’s production of 25 000-30 000 metric tonnes, we are now expecting between 110 000-150 000 metric tonnes of cotton seed. What this will mean in terms of the general economy, stock feeds, cooking oil, lint and spinning and so on, is enormous and exponential in terms of its impact on the economy.
So, I have every faith that the economy is going to rebound. Mr. Speaker Sir, I must say that we are in the process of revising our growth targets of GDP for this year. We are now looking where I had anticipated in the 2017 budget, I had projected a growth of say 0.7%. I am now looking at something like 3.7% this year, largely contributed not just by agriculture. Every sector has performed, whether it is sugar, cotton, maize and cattle. There are those areas like soya beans which we want to boost now. If you look at mining, it is also performing and there is growth in gold, platinum, ferrochrome and chrome ore.
Let us take for instance chrome ore; last year we allowed export of 30 million worth of chrome ore. About this time last year we had exported 10 million. This time we have already sold 50 million and we are projecting something like 300 million by the end of the year. Those are tangible signs that the economy is recovering if we remain focused on doing the right things. To remain focused, we certainly are going to.
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
On the motion of the MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the House
adjourned at Thirteen Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.