PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 13th July, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. What steps are you taking to redress corruption surrounding the delivery of maize? Farmers are being told that their maize has not reached 12.5% moisture level and 30 minutes later, they go and sell the maize to conmen who in turn resale the same maize to the Grain Marketing Board (GMB). What measures have you taken to address the situation?
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):
Madam President, I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Firstly, each farmer who delivers maize to the GMB has the maize tested to assess its moisture content. The moisture content of 12.5% is acceptable. We are aware as she has mentioned that there are certain depots where our workers examine the maize and tell the farmer that the maize has not reached the required 12.5% moisture content. If the farmer is not satisfied, we have areas where police officers who are in uniform can be consulted, other farmers can go to our Ministry offices which are not situated at the Grain Marketing Board. I want to assure this august House that where we have found such scenarios, we have taken corrective measures.
I am aware that in Mashonaland West, some GMB workers have been dismissed because of such misdemeanor. When I realised that this was now rife, I gave a directive as the responsible Minister that we now want the agriculture extension officers to go to the fields and give the general information to farmers in terms of the maize moisture content.
There may be a few isolated cases now, but it is not all the GMB depots that have issues of corruption. We are dealing with these problems once they have been reported.
Madam President, my advice is that we have a long season variety; most of the maize have not reached the required moisture content because of the heavy rainfall. If we harvest the maize, put it in our silos, the maize will continue to breathe and by so doing, it releases moisture which may cause our maize to rot in those silos. It is an issue that we are attending to and hopeful that in the next season, the dryers will be there to assist in ensuring that the maize that is delivered has the correct moisture content. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUGABE: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. We realise that tobacco is one of the crops that earn the much needed foreign currency. What measure is Government taking in order for farmers to be able to harness renewable sources of energy that are not harmful to the environment? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):
Madam President, I want to thank the Hon. Senator for raising the question. Firstly, let me also buttress the point that indeed tobacco is an important crop in terms of foreign currency earning and I assume that the environment question she is raising is that either the crop itself is harmful or that we cut trees in order to cure the crop. Of course, we must admit that tobacco is the biggest culprit, “kunaka kwayo ndiko kuipa kwayo.” It is a crop that we have to look at different methods.
The Tobacco Research Board has been experimenting with the famous rocket, what we call rocket ban curing. It uses less energy or wood particularly for the smallholder farmers. However, the cost of putting that infrastructure is what we must support the farmers with at the end of the day. There are also other trials that we have been doing with power paraffin powered curing systems from China. That is also another way. Otherwise for us, the best for now would be to have coal but as we all know, to transport coal from Hwange to the major tobacco producing areas of our country requires that we work on the railways. Of course, road transport is feasible but very costly both in terms of damaging the roads and so on. I am aware collectively as Cabinet that proposals are there by the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development for us to revamp the National Railways.
For now, we have to include planting forestry. We are working together with the Minister of Environment, Water and Climate and the Forestry Commission to increase the plantations of gum trees. So, those are some of the measures that we are taking but it is admitted that indeed tobacco is having a major impact on the environment. It is also causing siltation. When we cut down trees, we are contributing to siltation. Yesterday, we were talking of irrigation schemes that we must protect in terms of the environment. Sometimes we are also destroying indigenous trees that are very important to our environment. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. We would want you to enlighten us on what measures you have put in place as Government because you have supported Command Agriculture programme and there is a lot of maize on the farms and rural areas. What measures have you put in place to ensure that there is money? How long will it take for a farmer to get their money after delivering their maize? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Thank
you Madam President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa. The question that he raised is pertinent and it gives us an opportunity to explain. We know that most farmers have very good produce and it is not only maize. We said GMB should buy all grains, what we call cereals and pulses such as beans, round nuts, ground nuts, et cetera. We want the GMB to buy them, including soya beans. Those who were buying soya beans were telling farmers that they have cheaper soya beans from outside the country but we gave an instruction that GMB needs to buy all the produce.
We are adequately prepared and we are working together as directed by Cabinet that we need to pay the farmers upon delivering their produce promptly. What we urge is that every farmer must have a bank account to ensure that his money is deposited in his bank account. That will simplify the process for us. Secondly, the payment takes a week to two weeks upon which the money should be reflecting in the bank. This is also because we will be working together with the millers. Before, the millers used to access grain from the farmers but this season we agreed and it was not by coercion, in case others think we coerced them. It was realised that it is easier for millers to get the grain from GMB than to source the maize on their own.
We also made sure that it enables ease of doing business in that the millers do not pay GMB but they pay to the Treasury. GMB is only a custodian of the national strategic grain reserve that is monitored by the President. So the maize in the reserve, that which we keep when there is drought is what we are talking about. The millers will go straight to the
Treasury and they will pay for their maize. They will be given a note for them to draw the maize. We did this to ensure that we monitor the whole system. We are working with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
Currently, farmers who are delivering their grain can testify that most of them have been paid. I do not have figures with me right now. I could have given you but I can also give that information even though it is not policy. I have answered the policy side and I am willing to provide the figures to the Senate to show that we have paid farmers. So far, we have paid a lot of farmers. Madam President, I also want to say that this morning I talked to ZBC advising them that there is a lot of grain coming in. We now have 300 000 in the national strategic reserve. So far, the maize that has come through is about 290 000 and this maize is mainly from Mashonaland West and Mashonaland Central. We will now be getting into a higher harvesting in small scale farming areas, communal areas, A1 and A2 areas. So everything is progressing well and we are paying our farmers to ensure that they are able to go back to their farms. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I
want to say that the Minister has made me happy in his reply to the previous question. However Minister, what can we do to assist you to ensure that the people out there know that GMB is now paying because in other areas they believe that GMB does not pay? People are going to the rural areas and buying a bucket of maize for $2 which translates to $160 per tonne. As a result, people in the rural areas are being ripped off. What can we do to instill confidence in the farmers that there is money at GMB so they do not sell their maize cheaply? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND IRRIGATION
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want to thank Hon. Sen.
Chief Charumbira for his question. Firstly, I want to explain that even where we put controls with communal farmers, we do not put stringent measures for them when selling amongst themselves. However, what Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira raised about people going to those areas, ripping off the communal farmers and bringing the grain to GMB thereby benefitting themselves because the maize is being bought at $390 per tone; they are making much more than what the farmer is getting when selling at $160 a tonne. I think this is an issue where we have to assist each other because our small farmers do not have anything because of the drought. Now they have had an opportunity to harvest something after getting the Presidential inputs. We need to assist each other to ensure that we stop these middle men who are ripping off the farmers. We have the power and authority to say that people who are doing that are criminals because that is a criminal offence and they can be arrested. So these are just ideas that I am putting across but that will make life difficult for some of us.
Secondly, we need to go out on awareness campaigns to advise them not to sell their maize. But, we know it is a challenge because the parents will also want cash. So, we can also assist each other and utilize the media.
As we get the first maize produce that was grown, the large scale and commercial farmers are coming in and so, we need to raise awareness that GMB is paying for maize delivered. We are in discussions with the Minister of Finance and the Reserve Bank. For the small scale farmers, we need to find cash because they being small scale means that they may also need cash for their day to day running. So, from what is being discussed here, I will see how we can continue the deliberations with the Minister to ensure that we get cash.
It is true that confidence has to be instilled in our people that maize will be paid for but the small scale farmers have not yet brought their produce. The test of the pudding is in the eating. As we move towards buying grain from the small scale farmers, I will take note and ensure that we pay. We requested the RBZ to come up with a policy to ensure that the opening of accounts is not a cumbersome process especially for the small scale farmers because they do not have accounts. I know that RBZ and the Ministry of Finance are working flat out. Even the swipe – we might request that we engage the same procedure that we are using with cotton and tobacco to ensure that there is some cash and also ease of opening bank accounts. However, we look forward to seeing the enhancement of ease of doing business but the truth is GMB is paying. *HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: My supplementary question is
where the Minister said the millers are paying and they are buying directly from GMB. At what prices are they buying the maize?
HON. DR. MADE: Thank you but that is a question that I cannot respond to currently. However, we have plans to deliberate on the pricing. What I want this House to know is that the price that we buy with from the farmer is to enable the farmer to go back to the farm. There are people who are talking of those prices and are saying the Government prices are low. We are not going to move from $390 because we need to empower the farmer. Our farmer is farming under very difficult conditions. The position of Cabinet is that there was a drought and when we started the land reform, the farmers were accessing loans or credit facilities at very high rates. The cost of production is not equivalent to the cost of production across the world. So, we need to look at the cost of production for the farmer. Our priority is to ensure that the farmer is secure but the consumer also has to survive and cannot sustain the $390 per metric tonne. We are still deliberating on the matter but I want to assure the farmers that they will continue to get $390 per tonne. That also applies to wheat. We will continue to pay the farmer that top price. What I want us to know is that the price of maize remains at $390. The bare minimum for wheat will be at the bare minimum it was in the last season.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: My question is directed to the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development. Your Ministry is doing a good job in encouraging women empowerment. One of the empowerment programmes is that of the women’s bank. Can you enlighten us if the women’s bank has been implemented and is operational in provinces and also, if men are eligible to get funds from the women’s bank.
*THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIKWINYA): Thank
you Madam President. I thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Our bank is progressing well, but for us to start operations at the bank is not easy because there are a lot of things that need to be done before it can start operating. What we need now is ICT, that is where the challenge is. Our bank’s headquarters is housed at Trust Towers along Samora
Machel Avenue. We are renovating to ensure that we begin working. We now have a Chief Executive Officer who is already working. The finance person was recruited and is already working. Recruitment is done by the board, which is their work.
You asked what will happen in the rural areas. The Ministry of
Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development is in partnership with POSB. POSB is one bank I know which has branches all over the country. Whilst they have closed some of their branches due to lack of business, we requested them to allow us to use them all and we want to work with them. Like I said in the Lower House, they will ensure that some of the workers who were with POSB will be reinstated, that is what we have proposed to the board so that instead of just taking over their infrastructure, they can also be employed.
I want to believe that we will not surpass the month of September before we open up our bank. However, it is said that for the ICT programme to be set up properly so that we are all networked from say Harare to Masvingo, it takes a period of 90 days and now we are almost midway which means that we are almost finished.
You asked the criterion used to obtain a loan. Men are not allowed to take a loan; we do not have money to give you. You should visit every other bank for loans but with this one you cannot. Let us use this one to help women who have been disadvantaged all along. This one is a positive discrimination and we are not ashamed of it.
We have the issue of financial inclusion, a programme where we find ways and means of injecting money into our bank so that it becomes financially stable. We trust that women will also be depositing their money in there and obtain it from there. I am sure that we now have a lot of orders particularly on agricultural projects. Our Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development is aware of that.
I think we have 70% of poultry farmers in this country who are women. So, women will do a lot of poultry and they will be distributed to markets without taking long to sell; we already have a ready market.
We received an order worth millions of dollars from Namibia recently, which was approved by Cabinet.
Our Minister also knows that we have tractors for women, 100 000 just for women so that we do farming. So, we are trying by all means to establish our bank. Anyone who wants to own a tractor from that programme should be trained first for a fee of US$65 and then we give you an offer on the type of crops that you will plant and the market for the final products. This is done so that women will be able to repay the loan which they will have taken. So, we are still making plans and putting things together for our bank to operate well. If you know Pick N Pay, they also gave us a contract for farm produce; they will no longer be buying from outside but from women. Others are saying we should do what is called internal mobilisation funding and that is where we are. However, if anyone in here has a lot of money, can you give us so that we inject into our bank so that it kick starts. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Hon. Minister, are you saying that as a man, if I reside in Checheche and have a business, will you allow me to deposit my money in your bank but will not be able to access the loan.
*HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam President. That is what I said, that when it comes to banking money, we can work together but in terms of accessing the loans, we cannot accept men. I wish you could just understand that and give us a break for a short period. We are saying the 52% of women in Zimbabwe need to have that opportunity to access loans. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. I want to find out the criterion used on the recruitment of staff. Are you only going to focus on women or you will also be recruiting men?
HON. CHIKWINYA: On that issue, we are quite flexible because we have males who are doing the general work such as cleaning – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – protect me Madam President. The issue of employment is where we use equal opportunity of 50:50 but we want it to come in as a statute. Once the 50:50 rule becomes statute, it will no longer be for women only. Section 17 provides for gender balance. We are going to take it to the National Assembly and bring it here and once it is passed, you can get the menial jobs because for high posts, I think women will be heading. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank you Hon. Minister for your very elaborate response to questions. My question is; you mentioned that your Ministry is working with Post Offices in rural areas where there were village banks established by the same Ministry. Are you going to resuscitate those village banks so that it becomes easy where infrastructure is already in place?
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam President. The village
banks will continue to operate separately because this banking institution is different from a village bank. The regulations and how it operates, the modus operandi is very different. Therefore, we will leave the village banks to operate separately while we grow the women’s bank separately. However, we may have a situation where we may want to lend money to the village banks so that they operate as village banks from the parent women’s bank. They can borrow money so that we resuscitate them because we know that they were doing a great job for women at community level.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. Hon. Minister, what measures is Government taking for timeous provision, adequate and affordable fertilizers for 2017/2018 given that in the past year, fertilizers were in short supply.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank Hon. Sen. Chimhini. The issue of inputs is related to the availability of foreign currency. Right now, our objective is that we are trying to save money by substituting production in order to reduce imports. It is almost an egg and chicken situation. It is also related to foreign currency allocation. Agriculture is a generator of foreign currency, i.e. tobacco, cotton, even meat exports where we export.
However, foreign currency has to be allocated to other vital sectors. For example, yesterday there was talk of the health sector and the stock of the fuel sector. They need foreign currency for imported materials. So, we have to share that cake. So far in the coming seasons, we are grateful that we have already started moving the Presidential Inputs Scheme. If you go to various depots across the country, we are already moving fertilizer. We have been moving fertilizer in the past two months and I want the Senate to know that.
On our manufacturing, we are grateful to NSSA which has also been assisting the fertilizer industry from the last season in terms of some amount. So, the carry-over stocks will go into the season. The fertilizer companies require mainly the trace elements that go into the manufacturing of fertilizer. The phosphate or dombo redu tinaro from Dorowa, but we give them foreign currency from machinery and equipment. So far, Treasury together with the Reserve Bank have provided some resources. We are already moving the inputs for the cotton. On the Presidential Cotton Input Scheme, we have some carryover stocks.
So, I can say barring heavy rains; the preparations have already started but as you know, our season is dependent on the rains. If we have more rain, it means our biggest struggle is on top dressing fertilizers. I think that is where the biggest challenge is. We are advising the farmers to put lime so that we correct the soil ph. Our soil has got some residual fertilizer but it becomes available to the plant if we correct the soil ph. There are several technical measures that we are also undertaking but we are better prepared this season than the previous season. This is because of foreign currency allocation. We are going to stop in some areas as was suggested yesterday about importation of certain commodities that we can produce so that we enhance production.
I have just come from Europe and everybody knows that organic material and certain pulses that help in nitrogen fixing. We are talking of organic farming as only in the gardens. In Europe, to correct the soil which is pulverized by inorganic fertilizers, we have to correct the soil. They are now using organic material on a commercial scale. It corrects the soil ph and it improves on the yields. These are some of the measures that we are going to introduce in our agriculture as well, to commercial so that we must do and we are discussing it with other countries. Most of these countries like China, Europe, and Russia and so on; they are calling for organically produced material, not only as a feud, but in terms of commercial proportions. Those are some of the things that we are following. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: The aspect of pricing Hon. Minister,
you did not touch on that one. I talked about affordability.
HON. DR. MADE: My apologies Madam President. It is an
appropriate component that I had left. The issue of pricing is very important. That is why we have the Cabinet Committee in the
President’s Office that looks at ease of doing business so that we look at water and electricity. I have already alluded to transport that as long as we are transporting mainly the bulk input raw material to agriculture by road, the cost continues to be up.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Minister, I am excited
about the potential of organic going commercial in Europe. I thought we should better place ourselves. Why can we not move faster than Europe in the organic area which is more effective and less costly? Thank you.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam President, I do not want to be too
technical and argumentative but all I can do is to say to Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira, that in Europe when we talk of animals, virtually all animals are housed 360 days a year, be it dairy, beef, poultry and piggery. We must remember that. So technically, I think for us to be able to be mechanised to apply the organic material and I am now talking of even tankers that travel 200 km to deliver organic material on different farms, we must start in my view, but this is a technical matter. We must start and that is why organic material item has been included under the livestock. We have not announced yet but it is going to come under the livestock special programme that we will be announcing soon. In
Europe, it starts with bio-energy where every dairy farm or beef farm are generating power first.
From the digesters, you now take that material and you apply it in the field. So we must also invest in that as you know well as an environmentalist yourself. I think we should start at least in those areas in the dairy sector, cattle fattening areas and in the poultry area, it is very easy for us to do. So, it is an idea that we support but we should look at those niche areas that we should start with. At least I am very happy to say to the Senate that it has been directed by Cabinet that the livestock sector must include this organic subject. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President.
My question goes to the Minister of Women’s Affairs. We always hear that there is the financial inclusion facility that has been brought by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. How can women access such a facility? Do they have to come through your Ministry? How must they go about it?
*THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIKWINYA): We have come up with a policy that each bank in this country should have a window where women can access money under financial inclusion. It is now a must that each bank should advance loans to women. Secondly, on how they should become aware about this money, we are coming up with media that is favourable to women and deals with gender issues. We are asking the media for a channel that specifically deals with women issues on television or radio where you can either listen and view issues pertaining to women only. We now have focal persons in each Ministry from our own. We are requesting that where line ministries have communal based workers such as agricultural extension workers, we give them information pertaining to women’s issues so that as they do their main line of work they also deal with women issues. This will enable issues that are beneficial to women to be registered at communal level. The media would be the best way to go around it. It appears the Minister understands in that regard. Econet and NetOne are very cheap. We intend to send out bulk messages through them so that women can access information on what we are doing. I thank you. *HON. SEN. MAKONE: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. When we went round the GMB depots with the Peace and Security Thematic Committee, we learnt that farmers were being paid $390 per tonne but they will be selling that for $220 per tonne. This means that Government will be giving a subsidy of $170 per tonne. If GMB were to collect 200 million tonnes out of the success of the command agriculture initiative, there will be a subsidy of $340 million. What stops me as a miller from buying 10 tonnes at $220 and my young brother will bring the same 10 tonnes, resell it for $390 and continue doing the same thing? You will be thinking that you have bought 220 tonnes but it is only 50 tonnes that is being circulated. You have no way of stopping that. Why do you not subsidise the inputs, pay the farmer $170 and the miller buys at $220 so that the miller cannot come back and gain a profit of $170 per tone? The net effect is that the seed becomes cheaper to the farmer. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want to thank the Hon. Senator. First of all, the $220 as stated to the
Committee, I need to look at that but I take note of what the Hon. Senator has said. I want to comment on the principle of subsidising the inputs. That is fundamental and universal because as you saw when I presented that we are paying the farmer $390 per tonne to keep them in the field and I made reference to the fact that our pricing structure for all commodities, the ease of doing business needs to be looked at. This is a matter we are looking at in greater detail but the comments that have been made by the Senator are relevant but I cannot answer to say yes, we will do this and that, no. We have to work on it because it is a combination of the Ministry of Finance, Industry and so on but the final price of $220, no I have only heard it here and I will find out. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: My question is directed to the
Minister of Agriculture. What measures have you put in place to empower your mechanisation department so that farming implements and equipment are readily repaired because of the problems that they are facing.
* THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): First
and foremost, I would want to thank Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for her question. We have already announced that there will be a parastatal called the National Mechanisation Authority of Zimbabwe, which means that the issue of mechanisation and irrigation will now be given more depth at practical level and not at policy level.
Secondly, it is up to the farmer to see that his or her implements are in tip-top condition. We do not want to give people the idea that the
Government will always be there to service the farmers’ tractors. If a bolt is broken, it is not the duty of the Government to go and replace it. We are turning down loans that are above certain rates because we want to empower the farmer. We would also want to bear in mind what Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira has said, that we would want to have ways in which farmers are not conned by conmen in terms of their produce. We want farmers to develop and become bigger.
So, I want to stress the point that this is what we have in mind that we are no longer giving tractors for free, no. Even as we speak with the
Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Affairs regarding their bank, we are working hand in glove to ensure that the farmer is empowered, so that the farmer can raise some deposit to buy the nuts and bolts for the tractor or for his/her implements and become self reliant and self sustaining. At the moment, we do have tractors and as you are aware, they come from different programmes such as the
Brazilian project and others came from Government under the RBZ. Under the command agriculture, we want to know what needs to be done because at this time we are busy repairing combine harvesters, there is no foreign currency allocation and farmers have challenges in that regard. But, we will assist the farmers by giving them a loan at low interest rate.
Certain farmers are saying that they are having problems with their engines and we will assist them in that regard but we will tell the farmer that once we have done the repairs, we have empowered the farmer to plough and he/she should send the money. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I move that Questions without Notice
be extended by 15 minutes.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to ask my question. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation
Development, regarding command agriculture on animal husbandry.
We were told that we were supposed to register yet when we go to Rural District Councils on the animal husbandry command agriculture, they profess ignorance. So, what do you suggest that we do because we need to have the command agriculture extended to animal husbandry? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I
would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking the question on command livestock. I want to appeal and say that we are going to make an announcement and please, do not go and start on it before we make the announcements. Please, I want to plead and I appreciate the question. It is a very good question and I want to make it clear because we are elaborating just like we did on the cropping side. We do not want farmers to be misled to go up and down because it costs money. It will be quite an extensive and deep programme of livestock and I do not want to speculate on it because we are busy on the paperwork. It will have legal elements and we will make the appropriate announcements starting with the food security and nutrition Chair, who is the Hon. Vice President, then we will cascade down.
There will be legal papers that have to be approved by Cabinet and we do not want any misinformation and misdirection of the farmers. So, I want to thank you and we do not want to say which institution. We will announce which institution will be involved. Any other programme for now, it is not command livestock. So, command livestock – we will announce it properly. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. We have noticed in the media that there is $300 million which has been put aside. So, I am pleading with the Minister that he gives an announcement that is going to talk about command on livestock or animal husbandry because the media has talked about animal husbandry and people are now looking forward to getting assistance in this line.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam President, there is no problem with the patapata. It is okay but like I have said now, the procedures and everything and I understand why, it is because this programme has been long awaited and everybody wants to be involved. So, it is okay and people must know that the programme is coming. The media is correct in announcing the initial amount but it will also depend on those that will be interested in financing the programme. It will be Government as well as the private sector, but it was important that we indicate the initial amount that we are going to start with. I still want to maintain the position on the appropriate announcements on how the farmers, how the groups and how institutions will apply - that we will make at the appropriate time. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. What is involved in command agriculture – does it have any time limit so that we know that in crops it is so many years or in livestock there are so many years of its implementation.
HON. DR. MADE: We are going to have timeframes but I want to just make reference to the fact that command agriculture and special programmes - remember we started with the special maize production for import substitution and now we are going to have soya bean. We are going to have fisheries and even wildlife farming as well. We are also going to have fruit trees as well. We are going to have different components of the agricultural sector.
There is the irrigation component that we are talking about but on cattle, I would like to talk about livestock in general. Initially, the programme will be three to five years because as you know, livestock has a longer gestation period. There will be things that will be done by Government, for example the foot and mouth fencing. We do not expect the farmers to do that for us to control foot and mouth. That is a longterm project. Even the farmer, when you are breeding, the dairy sector is long term and the beef sector is long-term. Depending with on the enterprise of the livestock, it will have a longer gestation period. It might also include improved pastures, for example, for you to recoup that back will take longer. It will be there with us for a little while.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is to do with the rural folk. In the past, the GMB used to have semi-depots whereby the rural farmers would deliver their produce on scotch carts. Those semi-depots used to assist a lot but they are no longer operational and the distances that have to be travelled by the rural folk are hundreds of kilometres in some cases. The rural farmer will definitely lose and he will not break even. What plans do you have to assist the rural farmer because definitely, as you know, they form the greater chunk of this country?
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank Hon. Senator and indicate that the GMB has been directed to open all the satellite depots plus the new ones. It has been made very clear that farmers, both in terms of cotton areas and grain areas should not be travelling more than five kilometres even less. I have said the GMB has been directed to purchase pulses, that is sugar beans, cowpeas, all grain and cereal material including soya bean. At least I am happy to say that is what we have directed. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
CHALLENGES POSED BY LACK OF POINT OF SALE FISCAL
MACHINES
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House what plans are in place to alleviate challenges posed by lack of point of sale fiscal machines in view of the fact that such machines are not readily available in the country, a situation that has affected business.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, I want to
indicate that I am standing in for the Minister of Finance and I will respond to questions 1, 6, 8, 9 and 10 on his behalf.
Mr. President, the observation by the Hon. Member is appreciated and suffice to say that the Government through the Reserve Bank continues to support efforts aimed at promoting electronic payment transactions in the economy. These efforts have culminated in increases in Point of Sale (POS) machines from 16 000 in January 2016 to currently 40 600. This has resulted in an impressive increase of electronic and plastic money transactions from around 40% in 2016 to the current average of 80% in the formal market.
Efforts are underway to intensify the use of electronics and plastic money in the informal sector which is currently predominantly cash based. In addition to POS machines, the Reserve Bank is also promoting the use of other electronic means of payment available to the transacting public for use in the economy such as real gross settlement (RTGS), electronic funds transfer (EFT), mobile financial services, Near field Communication (NFC) and quick response (QR) code.
Furthermore, the Government has also, through the 2017 National Budget, scrapped import duty for POS devices and we are proceeding to remove the 5% tax per transaction on POS and electronic payments. It is our considered view that this initiative will further bring the requisite financial resources and capacity for institutions to import more POS machines.
MEASURES TO CURB CORRUPTION
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to explain to the House the measures taken by the Ministry to curb corruption as the economy recovers.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, Hon.
Members will recall that in my 2016 Mid Year Fiscal Policy Review
Statement and in my 2017 National Budget Speech that I presented on 8th December, 2016, I emphasised on the need to tackle all forms of corruption. Also, one of the critical success factors that would ensure the successful implementation of the 2017 Budget was that of confidence building underpinned by policy consistency.
This critical success factor underpins the need to improve the ease of doing business in Zimbabwe by improving and aligning pieces of legislation that impinge on business. I believe that as we improve the ease of doing business by amongst others, setting up appropriate information technology platforms, aligning legislation and regulation and other institutional elements that curb bureaucracy and inefficiency will curtail corruption. Members will recall that I specifically stated that budget process and its focus is on the elimination of all forms of corruption.
In that regard, I indicated that efforts will be made to improve the computerisation of the Public Finance Management System (PFMS). My Ministry has since started implementing that process and is currently enhancing its capacity to accommodate more transactions by upgrading the servers and their connection to the rest of the PFMS. Improvements in the PFMS capacity is expected to build an effective and efficient budgeting and financial transactions system and ultimately curb corruption along the value chain.
In addition, Members will recall that I informed the House that I will be instituting measures to strengthen the Public Finance
Management System by enhancing capacity of the Accountant General’s
Office to follow up on queries raised by the Audit Office. I am pleased to inform the House that the Public Service Commission has since approved the setting up of the Performance Management Units. These units will be responsible for the evaluation of performance of State enterprises and follow up on queries raised by the Audit Office respectively.
The Accountant General’s Office has since recruited the necessary personnel to conduct the required follow-ups and performance analysis. These Performance Management Units will also advise Ministries and State enterprises on ways to improve performance and effectiveness in response to the Audit Office queries.
Mr. President, in addition Members will be aware that the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission has the constitutional mandate to identify, investigate and effectively deal with all forms of corruption in society. My Ministry is always ready to work closely with ZACC for the later to fulfill its constitutional mandate and Treasury is currently providing the necessary support to ensure that ZACC performs all its functions.
CHALLENGES MILITATING NEGOTIATIONS WITH SOUTH
AFRICA ON ADOPTION OF THE RAND
- HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House what the perceived challenges or problems are that militate against Zimbabwe negotiating with the South African based monetary union so as to allow the country to adopt the rand as the official currency while continuing to solve the economic dilemma.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, I want to
thank the Hon. Senator. Hon. Senators will be aware that the Rand is part of the basket of currencies used under the multi-currency system of exchange in Zimbabwe since 2009.
In this regard, Government is against the usage of the Rand in
Zimbabwe alongside other currencies in the basket of nine currencies.
The multi-currency system provides a wide range of choice of currencies to Zimbabweans.
Government does not believe that Zimbabwe’s challenges are a currency phenomenon but rather a structural challenge. In any case, the Rand is foreign exchange that needs to be earned. We do not print it. It can also be externalised.
Competitiveness is brought by increasing production and productivity in order to reduce the average cost of production through economies of scale. Usage of the Rand means that Zimbabwe will need to earn and sell US dollars to obtain the Rand from South Africa. So, it is very clear Mr. President that the Rand will have to function as a multicurrency designated in the same basket; not as an exclusive currency. On behalf of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. President. I would like to register my gross dissatisfaction which I requested the
Minister here present to advise the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that my Question Number 11 has been outstanding since October last year. If the Minister is not prepared to answer the question, he might as well say so and I forget about it. I have revised it as at end of September to end of March and it still remains unanswered. I am grossly dissatisfied. Thank you Mr. President.
STATE OF SILIKWE IRRIGATION PROJECT
- HON. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to explain to the House why the Silikwe Irrigation Project in Matshetshe communal lands in Gwanda still remains in a semi-developed state almost 20 years after the project was initiated.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Mr.
President, certainly on an earlier comment by the Hon. Senator, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development will respond to the question – [HON. B. SIBANDA: A year later?] – Yes, he will respond a
year later, yes.
Mr. President, I want to thank Hon. Senator Sibanda. The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development has not yet provided enough funds to complete the project, that is the Silikwe Irrigation Project. However, I am confident that in the resources that are being allocated, the project will be completed. Thank you.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
WITHDRAWAL OF MONEY FROM BANKS
- HON. SEN. NYATHI asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development: -
- to indicate when the banks would be in a position to allow depositors to withdraw any amount of money from their bank accounts without limits
- to state measures in place to ensure that people do not spend their productive time in long queues just to withdraw money which is as little as US$50.00 per day.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on
behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, the
fundamental reason of limiting cash withdrawals is to ensure that the available physical foreign exchange cash is evenly spread to the banking public given the fact that the demand for cash is higher than its supply. The shortage of cash is not caused by banks or the Reserve Bank. The shortage of cash is a symptom of a combination of structural challenges besetting the national economy namely fiscal deficit, current account deficit, market discipline and low productivity.
Fiscal deficit reflects that expenditure is larger than revenue. Excess expenditure over revenue causes cash shortages as it means reliance on overdraft to access the scarce foreign exchange. This is double tragedy which must be addressed.
This situation is exacerbated by the current account deficit which shows that Zimbabwe is a net importer. This requires foreign exchange to meet the excess imports over exports. The foreign currency shortage is further compounded by the glaring market indiscipline. The practice by some traders, including foreigners operating within the Reserved Sectors of the economy, to operate without banking accounts is unethical business practice that should not be tolerated in this country. Non-banking of cash by such unscrupulous traders has a haemorrhaging effect on the circulation of money in the economy.
As I advised this House before, money like blood needs to circulate for any economy to survive and grow. If money that is in the national economy amounting to around $760 million (11.7% of total deposits), made up of $140 million of bond notes, $23 million bond coins and an estimated $600 million of multiple currencies, was circulating efficiently, there would be no cash shortages in the country – a range of 10 – 15 percent of deposits in an economy is the best practice for cash in circulation in most economies throughout the world including developed countries.
It is the traders and individuals who are operating in the shadow economy that are therefore exacerbating cash shortages whilst at the same time externalising cash and also feeding the parallel markets. They do not pay taxes as well. They are abusing the privilege of operating in the Reserved Sectors of the economy.
Once again Hon. Members, let me reiterate that cash challenges can only be addressed when we deal holistically with the challenge of low production and productivity, fiscal deficit, current account deficit and market indiscipline. The following measures are being undertaken by Government to address the structural rigidities:
- Reducing Government expenditure to match with revenue;
- Fostering market discipline through the existing legal instruments to minimise capital flight or externalisation and to promote the smooth circulation of money within the national economy;
- Addressing low productivity to increase fiscal space, employment and exports through implementing investor friendly measures that include synchronising the indigenisation law to the localisation policy, ease and cost of doing business reforms, State owned enterprises reform and issuance of bankable 99-year leases;
- Promoting exports and foreign exchange receipts from the diaspora through the export subsidy scheme being granted by the Reserve Bank; and
- Promoting local production through the Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016 put in place by Government and the foreign exchange management system by the Reserve Bank.
BANK WITHDRAWAL LIMITS
- HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to explain why banks are limiting withdrawals to a maximum of $100 per transaction from banks to Ecocash transfers, a situation which results in exorbitant charges to the user, a case in point being Agribank; and consider whether or not it would be prudent to allow withdrawals up to the maximum limit of $5000 per day.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Bank to wallet transactions
are not limited. However, banked individual customers transact up to $10 000 per month on their wallet with a daily limit of up to $5 000. Non-banked individual customers can transact up to $3 000 with a daily limit of $1 000. Merchants, farmers and SMEs can also transact on mobile wallets up to $50 000 per month depending on their category.
In line with the goal to encourage the use of electronic means of payments, the limits have been broadened to facilitate payments by the transacting public and business whilst taking cognisance of the antimoney laundering requirements which are key in any financial system. To this end, the transacting public is urged to move away from the culture of over-reliance to various electronic payment modes available in the country.
A cash withdrawal limit of US$5 000 is quite excessive by global standards.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 40TH PLENARY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held in Harare, Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th July, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NONESTABLISHMENT OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th July, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No 3.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th July, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON.
- MADE), the Senate adjourned at Four Minutes past Four o’clock
p.m. until Tuesday, 18th July, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 28th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING SPEAKER
MINISTERS WITH LEAVE OF ABSENCE
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): I have
received apologies from the following Hon. Ministers:
- i) Eng. Madanha; ii) Hon. Marapira; iii) Hon. Damasane; iv) Hon. F. Moyo;
- v) Dr. Gandawa; vi) Hon. Prof. J. Moyo; and vii) Hon. Sen. Mupfumira.
HON. GONESE: I rise on a matter of privilege in terms of
Standing Order Number 68 and 69. I have noted the number of Ministers whom you have read out as having sought your leave of absence, they are just seven Mr. Speaker Sir. It is something which we have raised time and again and in particular in relation to this sitting. As you will recall, we adjourned on the 22nd June, 2017 to Tuesday, 27th June, 2017. In terms of the sitting calendar, we were supposed to have adjourned to the 11th July, 2017 and today so far, I just see one full Minister and two Deputy Ministers. I believe that all of us must be cognisant of our responsibilities.
It is a serious matter and it must also concern you, where you are sitting that you have got a situation where you have got only eight apologies and you have most of the front bench unoccupied. I do not know why we had to adjourn to this week if we were not prepared for it. Yesterday Mr. Speaker Sir, you are aware that we had under consideration, the debate on the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill (No. 1). However, it was evident that the numbers were not adding up. Be that as it may, the point I am making at this moment is to say that the people of Zimbabwe expect us to transact business as and when we are called to come to the House.
However, we must also plan our things. This is the reason why we have got a Business of the House Committee in terms of Standing Order No. 14. That Business of the House Committee scheduled its sittings in terms of which we were supposed to be having a two week break whereby Members were supposed to go to their constituencies. As I speak the Senate is not sitting. They did their things in accordance with the sitting calendar. For some unknown reason, on Thursday, we adjourned to Tuesday when we were not ready for it and it is clear that the Ministers were not ready for it. That is why they are not here today.
I also note that among the Presiding Officers, the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker are also not here. I do not know whether it is a coincidence or not. We normally have got live coverage of our Question Time on Wednesdays but today it is not there. What it means in short is that we are wasting the taxpayers’ money. If you look at the cost of having these Members here when in fact there are only two or three Ministers to answer questions - it is clear that we have done things in a haphazard manner. I want to register my protest, speaking for myself and also on behalf of other Members of our caucus that this is not acceptable.
In the past, we have said that those Ministers who are not taking the business of the House seriously must face the music. I know that last week one of our Vice Presidents mentioned this and it is something which perhaps we need to take more seriously and crack the whip so that in future, this does not happen. This is undesirable and it is unacceptable.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Gonese. Your
concerns are noted but you always repeat and repeat the same thing.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a matter of privilege - [HON
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Let me warn you Hon. Members.
This is time for questions and not time for point of orders. Let it be the last one.
HON. MUNENGAMI: The preamble of the Constitution is very clear in as far as – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - valuing Christianity. It is within our Constitution. Every time we have a session you come and sit there and pray meaning that it is important that we believe in God, the Almighty. What we do inside the House as
Members of Parliament also reflects what we do outside as Members of Parliament. In the same vein what we do outside Parliament can also be a reflection of what we as Parliament are in terms of the institution of
Parliament. It is very sad and so embarrassing Hon. Speaker for us as Members of Parliament to go out there when we are in our constituencies and say things which are so blasphemous in terms of our values and our Christian beliefs.
We have got our President, His Excellency …
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): To the
point please.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Hon. Speaker, I am talking about the
President. If someone is not listening, it shows that the person does not respect the President – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Please can you keep quiet and respect our President. I am talking about our President, His Excellency, the Commander in Chief, the Head of Government and State, Cde. Robert Mugabe. We have an Hon. Member by the name Kudzanai Chipanga who referred to our President as an angel – Gabriel, an angel of God. That fact on its own to refer to our President as an angel is blasphemous.
Like what I said before Hon. Speaker, what we say outside reflects what we act or do in Parliament. If we refer to our President as an angel, even to go to the extent of saying that when he dies, he will be sitting next to God, Hon. Speaker, vetting people, vetting us – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It is something which we really need to look into. It is something that you need to tell us as Hon.
Members to say this is not what it is supposed to be as a Member of Parliament. We cannot refer to our President as the angel Gabriel. In fact, you have got your name. We have got Hon. Jacob Mudenda who has a biblical name. Can we also refer to Advocate Mudenda as the biblical Jacob? This was very bad honestly.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: You are out of order.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. K. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Can I understand what budget is put in place by your Ministry to finance the infant feeding scheme that was introduced by your Ministry?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you. I thank the Hon.
Member for asking the question. The arrangements that are in place to carry out our task of school feeding, as the nation knows, it began last year in May with the infant school level. The infant school level has a population of 1.5 million. In collaboration with the rest of the Ministries that are concerned about the matter, we have scaled up that in May this year to cover Grade 3 to Grade 7 – [Laughter.] – The calculation of grain requirement, that is …
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Members at the back, Hon.
Nduna, let us respect this House Hon. Members. You may proceed Hon.
Minister.
HON. DR. DOKORA: The calculation of the component of grain requirement to the end of term in December 2017 stands at approximately $18.5 million but this is the transfer costing mechanism where grain is delivered to the school system and there is counterpart support from the communities when they are also expected to chip in with relish supplies on their part. There is a further component that we are preparing for, which is the scaling up of school feeding to the day secondary schools but that is going to happen next year in May. In the meantime, we are capacitating every rural day school with at least a borehole, a one hectare drip irrigation plot and some solar panel as part of our Triple P efforts in the sector. It is a burden that we all share.
Thank you.
HON. K. SIBANDA: What about urban schools? What benefits are they getting from that scheme?
HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I thank the
Hon. Member for being particular about the urban circumstances. When we began school feeding at the infant level last year, the urban sector was excluded except where there was confirmed hardship. For instance, in the areas in Harare, I can cite the areas in Epworth. Those were identified under ZIMVAC as requiring this kind of measure. However, Government has since mainstreamed school feeding so that every school now at the levels I have just spoken about should be participating. Where they are not, my system should certainly take the corrective necessary measures so that they are incorporated. I thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. There is an issue of food that is being distributed in constituencies in line with the drought mitigation programme. From what I know, that programme was stopped in May. I wanted to ask and request that this programme be continued for the next three months, that is June, July and August because currently, the maize that is being harvested still has high moisture content and people are not able to take their maize to the mill in order to get mealie-meal. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that people continue to have maize meal until the moisture content for the maize is good enough?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank Hon. Nduna for his question. It is true that the drought prompted food mitigation programme ended in May. What we are doing currently as the Government, is to do an assessment known as ZIMVAC which shows us how many people were able to harvest, how many will face challenges and those needing assistance. You will also realise that there are areas that were affected by the floods and such areas need continued support. Right now we are assessing where assistance is needed through the report that I talked about and we will continue to assist those areas as I mentioned. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. NDUNA: How long does it take for those plans that you have to take off to ensure that our people are not affected by hunger and poverty?
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: The ZIMVAC report should be
in this august House in the next two months. We should have the figures by then even though it does not mean that if there is an area that makes a distress call, we will sit idly. We will go and assist. If there are such challenges, we will assist as a Ministry.
HON. PHIRI: There are those who have been receiving food aid especially those living with disabilities and vulnerable orphaned children, for all these days they have not been getting anything. What measures have you put in place to ensure that these are guaranteed of supplies because they have not received food aid in the past few months?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: We have vulnerable groups in
our society; those living with disabilities, child headed families and those with chronic diseases. All these people are on registers that we maintain as a Ministry. We have continued to give and we will continue to do give them food assistance. The programme that was there last year had been initiated after the President had declared a state of disaster thus giving us the mandate to give food. After this year’s harvest, we are assessing if all people are now able to feed themselves. We want to see if there are any who are not able to feed themselves, however those who are on our registers that we update now and again, we will continue to render our support as usual.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa. Considering our interface by way of policy with the World Bank and the
International Monetary Fund and considering the fact that we have been complying with the requirements that they have raised, what is the current position and grand plan that now exists between our country and these institutions?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): The Hon. Member is
asking what our relationship is with the World Bank and the African Development Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The short answer is that we cleared our arrears last year to the IMF in the sum of around US$107.9 million. We are now in the process of seeking to clear our arrears with the World Bank and the African Development Bank. Those two institutions are ready to receive our money and we are in the process of mobilising the necessary resources. In short, it is work under progress.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, one of the reasons why
our relations keep strained with the international financial institutions is because of fiscal indiscipline that has been highlighted by international financial institutions for a long time. These indisciplines include unlimited borrowing on the market not for productive purposes, uncontrolled expenditure including unnecessary foreign travel. What are you doing as Treasury to ensure that you reduce the fiscal indiscipline that is currently prevailing in our economy?
HON. CHINAMASA: The Hon. Member is not correct to say
that there is fiscal indiscipline. The challenge we have is to contain expenditure and a lot of that expenditure sometimes is necessary but of course, we said we have to live within our means. That expenditure is sometimes necessary. Some of it is constitutional and we inherited it through our Constitution. We inherited a very large bureaucracy, a very large Parliament, lots of Commissions and provincial entities. All these need to be funded and it is a constitutional obligation. When I now seek to fund them, it is called fiscal indiscipline. It is not so. I am merely meeting the constitutional obligation that I have; to meet Government expenditure and programmes.
The Hon. Member is wrong to say that the borrowing is totally to do with consumption. Yes, I do borrow to pay wages but I have tried to balance what goes to consumption and what goes to physical infrastructure. The House will want to know that the completion of the Tokwe-Mukorsi was done from the budget – from borrowing and a lot of the support that we are giving to the private sector is a result of some of those borrowings. We identified key private sector players whom we considered, if supported, could revive their operations. I can only mention one or two; Cairns and Rio Zim. These are not consumptive; they are in the productive sectors. They have been revived, they are creating employment and that is the way we have been managing.
In short, I want to say that our problem is fiscal deficit because of huge Government bureaucracy over which we have very little control. Cabinet has taken a decision by appointing me and the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to address the issue of a huge wage bill and we have been taking measures through rationalisation, redeployment and re-training to reduce that deficit. We are beginning to observe some savings from the measures that we are undertaking. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MUKUPE: My question is directed to the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development…
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, I thought you were standing up for a supplementary question.
HON. MUKUPE: No, I have a new question.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have not recognised you in that
context. I gave you a chance for a supplementary, you were not answered?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: It is a supplementary question Mr. Speaker. Thank you Hon. Speaker. I appreciate that the Hon. Minister is a lawyer by profession and not an economist. Therefore, he might not have a good grasp of everything that has got to do with financial matters.
However, Hon. Speaker, my question to the Hon. Minister arises out of a report that came from both the IMF and the World Bank. I appreciate that the Hon. Minister and his department have been using some of the borrowings on productive purposes. However, they are noted, I do not even need to list them, issues of fiscal indiscipline that are taking place in the economy. What is Treasury doing to ensure that it reduces those issues of fiscal indiscipline that are negatively affecting the economic growth? I can give a number of examples Hon. Speaker.
For example, in terms of borrowings that are happening for infrastructure development, we are seeing that most of the money being borrowed is escalating - the project funds are actually escalating. Let us say the project figure is given as $500 million, you will find that by the time the project completes, it will be around $800- $900 million and that is fiscal indiscipline. We are seeing a number of losses and leakages of funds as has been highlighted by the audit. We are seeing a lot of unnecessary foreign travels that are happening and a number of Treasury
Bills being issued in the market. Those are examples Hon. Speaker …
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, I think the Minister has covered almost what you are repeating there. – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA:
No, he did not cover…] – He did.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: He concentrated on other borrowings. I am speaking specifically to issues that have got to do with fiscal indiscipline. What is the Hon. Minister and Treasury doing to ensure that we reduce fiscal indiscipline so that we can see economic growth again and we reconnect our relationships with IFIs? Thank you.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I think the Hon. Member
needs to be fair on us. If he is alleging fiscal indiscipline, please let us have specific allegations so that I can do justice and respond to it. You can do it through Oral Answers to Questions with Notice or through a motion. I can then specifically respond to a specific allegation and see whether I agree with you or not on whether it is an act of indiscipline. How can I respond to you when you put it in general terms?
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am merely asking the Hon. Member to put the question in writing so that I can go and investigate whether it is an act of fiscal indiscipline or not. The indiscipline I know basically is that there are some businesses that are operating without opening bank accounts. There are also businesses that are transacting business without banking their cash but if you are talking about fiscal indiscipline, please spell it out and I will respond.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, I wish to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery, of students and lecturers from
Bulawayo Technical College and Bulawayo Metropolitan Province. You are most welcome – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. D. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy as regards child to book ratio, both primary and secondary?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. Speaker and I
thank the Hon. Member for raising the question. In the education sector, we talk about teaching and learning materials. It is no longer a monoculture of the book because you can have a lot of your teaching and learning materials loaded on a tablet. So we have to ask a different question, the adequacy of teaching and learning materials, but simply to ask if there is a policy on child and book ratio cannot answer to the circumstances that obtain in my sector right now. I thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, some of the schools that I
represent do not even have those IPads or computers. What is the policy regarding books in schools? We have noticed that there are no reading books in schools. It is 15 students per book, what is the policy Hon.
Minister on books?
HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Hon. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for rising to make the same point that I have just responded to. I think I am on record on the floor of this House saying that we have invited schools to make their indications on teaching and learning material requirements for their various schools. I have put it clearly to all our systems that we have US$9 million for which the schools have made their indications and the procurement processes are underway. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, a few years ago with the assistance of UNICEF, you introduced a programme to capacitate and develop teachers especially those who teach languages such as Tonga, Nambia and Venda. These were enrolled in such universities as the Great Zimbabwe University and we realised that most of those teachers were expelled from the colleges in the last semester. What is the position with regard to that programme of capacitating teachers in order to improve the quality of education? I thank you.
HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for keeping close to the activities of my Ministry. I would like to share with the Hon. Member and the House that, yes there were some discords in the arrangement of settling our termly payments with one of the universities. I think it may not be fair to mention the university by name but that has since been sorted out and the 3 000 teachers are continuing with the five cooperating universities.
Further, in the course of this year, we should be confirming more than 800 of them from the universities who are graduating on the various programmes that we have supported them on, including in the indigenous languages. Thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, I will go back to the question on books. What is the policy on the availability of those gadgets which you are talking about? Again, what is the policy on the availability of those books in the libraries of schools, taking cognisance of libraries which are in rural areas?
HON. DR. DOKORA: I thank the Hon. Member for the persistent interest in the books and reading culture in my school system. I wish to share with her the same indication that we have drawn attention to, that the schools are invited and have already responded to their requirements. Further the School Development Committees can indeed stock some of the library requirements of their individual schools. They are, and I must say this with the Hon. Member in mind, there are Hon. Members of Parliament who have also been stocking books for library purposes in the schools that are in their various constituencies.
It is my Ministry’s responsibility to say that when they are importing these books; we issue what are called duty free certificates that are granted to me via the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, so that these books can come in for free and go into the libraries of the schools. The specific requirements that relate to our new curriculum, generally those that I have pointed out, schools must indicate. Teachers must say what they want and then we purchase on their behalf.
HON. CHIWETU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Rural Development Promotion and Preservation of Culture and Heritage. What is the Government policy on the capacitation of chiefs for them to be self reliant? This is with regards to motor vehicles, so that they become mobile? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT
PROMOTION AND PRESERVATION OF CULTURE AND
HERITAGE (HON. A. NCUBE): Thank you very much for the
question raised by the Hon. Member. The first thing that I can say is that Government gives allowances to the chiefs. On vehicles, that is in the process. Thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker Sir, the question to the Minister was clear. What are you doing to empower chiefs and he is telling us that he is giving them allowances and buying them cars. What is your
Ministry doing to empower chiefs so that they do not rely on
Government alone? Empowerment Mr. Speaker.
HON. A. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. As far as we are concerned, as Government we are only able to pay some allowances to our chiefs. Unfortunately, we are not able actually give them some monies - maybe to come up with some businesses. It is not provided for in the Constitution. I have already stated that we are in the process of acquiring some vehicles for chiefs only. That is what I know.
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon.
Chinamasa. Recently, the Auditor General’s office did a fantastic job by unearthing a lot of financial irregularities in Government departments. Moreso, our Committee on Public Accounts also did a fantastic job by unearthing a lot of financial irregularities. What is your Ministry doing to make sure that culprits who swindled Government money are brought to book, because the Auditor General has been doing a lot of work, yearin-year- out, but we have not seen any action on your part as
Government to make sure that Government finances are accounted for.
As Parliament, according to Section 298, we have got a duty to make sure that revenues are properly accounted for. So, what is your Ministry doing?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, in fact
much of the question, I answered it about three months ago but I can repeat. In Treasury we have established, under the Accountant
General’s Office Department, two units. One to go through the
Auditor’s Report; what you need to understand of course is that the
Auditor’s report which was tabled, we have not yet seen it as Treasury – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] – That is the rule. In fact it is something that I am going to interrogate because we have not yet
read it.
The tradition is that the Auditor-General must table it before he gives it to us to comment. So, until we go through it and it is voluminous, we have no basis to respond to see whether we agree with her or we do not. That is the rule. I would have preferred a situation where before tabling it, she can give us a draft for comment before she processes a final copy. In short, the Auditor’s report would be studied.
There is a unit now in the Accountant General’s Office dedicated to studying it and then we will make our comments, then advise this august House what measures we are going to take against those who are found to have misappropriated the funds. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MAONDERA: Hon. Minister, for the year 2016, I can understand but previously reports were being brought out – 2013, 2014,
2015 and some of the issues in the 2016 reports are recurring from 2013. Are you telling me that you have never read the reports from 2013, including some of the reports that were brought to this House where he himself, the Minister, took some money through airtime? It was here in this House when it was reported. So, are you saying that you have not read those reports or you are trying to play to the gallery? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I explained that before the statement that I made in March, we did not have the apparatus within the Ministry to go through these Auditor-
General’s Reports and it was only through pressure from the Portfolio Committee on Public Accounts that I promised, and we are working together, to put in place people who can study and interrogate those reports so that corrective action can be taken, including against the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for airtime.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: My question to the Hon. Minister is, the
Auditor’s Report, they report here to Parliament and they report to the Minister, but I am surprised that if the Minister says that when the Auditor General commenced duty there was no apparatus for the report that came from the Auditor General. So, I am confused on how it could be that the Auditor General could have reported to him and yet he says he did not have the apparatus to consider the report from the Auditor General?
*HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General does not report to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, she reports to you. As a Government, we are in the process of setting up an internal audit with an internal auditor who will report to me before the Auditor General gets her report. So the Auditor General is yours as Parliament. She is not mine. That is why she never told me of what she submitted to you last week. So, we will also have sight of it in the form that she gave it to you.
*HON. MUKUPE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. Where I come from, the high density suburbs, we are deeply disturbed. There are sittings that you hold as Cabinet and you make agreements that this is now Government policy, but we realise that others in the social media say the opposite and that then gives us confusion as to what policy says. My question is related to the issue that was a brain child of the First
Lady Dr. Mugabe on Command Agriculture. What exactly is happening in terms of funding of the Command Agriculture? Right now as a populace, we are confused. We do not know what to listen to anymore.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I will not respond to what people say. I will only respond to the question what is the policy of Government on Command Agriculture.
Government, realising that commercial banks were not lending to farmers and that there is low productivity in agriculture, decided that more resources need to be mobilised for on-lending to the farmers. The policy therefore, is to mobilise resources to on-lend to the farmers, put in place mechanisms for farmers to repay their loans. That in fact is what the Government policy is. In this respect, the support to agriculture is through two ways – the Presidential Input Scheme. With respect to the previous year, it was 800 000 vulnerable households that we supported through the Presidential Input Scheme and Command Agriculture. We also support the cotton farmers to the tune of US$42 million, again through the Presidential Scheme. These are free inputs to the farmers.
Then the Command Agriculture is basically a loan to those who are in farming. Mostly last season it was to support the production of our staple food maize. I am happy to say that the programme has exceeded our expectations, but that is not to say there may not be shortcomings in the programme, we are identifying where and how those shortcomings are about so that we can improve. We have already undertaken the Winter Wheat Programme. We are also going to undertake next season 2017/2018 - again, a Command Agriculture for maize, soya beans and small grains. So, that is the policy of
Government. What anyone says outside this policy, I cannot say.
Again to emphasise, Mr. Speaker Sir, that the participation in the scheme is purely voluntary and people can opt out and can opt in as they wish. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Hon. Minister to explain the feasibility of taking the programme to villages and rural areas because the majority and masses of Zimbabwe are applauding this noble programme. Thank you.
HON. CHINAMASA: I thank the Hon. Member for that question, but I need to respond as follows – communal people A1 and old settlement, former purchase areas are eligible for the Presidential
Input Scheme which is free of charge. In the 2017/2018 season we are going to support 1.8 million households. This will ensure that each household will have one bag of fertiliser of compound D, one of ammonium nitrate and10kgs of seed.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: My supplementary question is, since the Minister says that banks have been shunning funding the agricultural sector or rather the financial sector itself has been shunning funding the agricultural sector and also given that Government does not have sufficient funds as Treasury for agricultural funding. What is the source of funds for command agriculture and what is the term sheet for those sources of funds?
HON. CHINAMASA: The structure is that Sakunda Holdings
provides the inputs upfront to be paid in a year when people harvest and then start paying back. Currently, they are now starting to pay for the inputs that they received last year. On our part, because Sakunda is a private player, it requires to be paid an interest and it also requires security. So, we have provided that security and we are paying inclusive 5% interest. I want to say that following the success of this past season, we have now begun to observe the commercial banks coming on board. As, I speak, Sakunda is mobilising the support of the commercial banks because these inputs must be paid upfront to the suppliers of fertilizers and chemicals. So, we have found out that Sakunda is now working in conjunction with about three banks which include CBZ and Barclays Bank. That basically is a structure which is on a cost recovery basis. I want to emphasise that those who are on the database who fail to pay, will obviously jeopardise their opportunities for borrowing in future. We cannot keep on repeating giving support to farmers who have no intention of repaying. I also want to say that command agriculture is helping us to identify serious farmers. Over a period of time, we should have a good pool of serious farmers whom we can support to produce for this country.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: My question is on the fact that the programme on command agriculture was well received in the rural areas when it came but the problem is that the Minister has not come out in the open on what is happening because while other people are moving in
one direction, others are going the other direction yet these people sit together in meetings. What we want to understand from the Minister is why they are failing to understand and agree that this project is good. Yesterday night, we saw lorries parked at GMB to deliver maize yet others are saying there is no maize but the evidence of maize is there.
What exactly is happening Minister, please inform us?
*HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker, disagreements among
people are not a hindrance to this programme because the programme is actually moving successfully. The fact that people are not agreeing and appear like dogs barking does not stop the programme from moving on smoothly.
*HON. SITHOLE: We heard the Minister saying that Sakunda
Holdings is responsible for bringing in resources. I want to know if a tender procedure was followed for Sakunda to do what it is doing since the country’s laws say everything has to go through a tender process. In addition to that, we want the Minister to give us a ministerial statement enlightening us on how the whole process was done.
*HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, we need to understand each other here. If anyone has money to pay ZFC, Windmill and SEEDCO right now as we speak, for the tonnes I require to give to people next week but being paid back next year at an interest rate below 5%, they should come forward so that Government can borrow that money.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is so clear that the Minister’s
responses and what he has addressed by way of the subject matter on command agriculture is a matter of national importance. May it be placed before you Hon. Speaker that there be a ministerial statement from the Minister, so that we also have time to engage the Minister, enrich his perspectives and also compound his passion for goodness in the context of our agriculture and also our national economy. This is a special request and I am sure that the Minister is ready to give us a response.
*HON. CHINAMASA: What I have just said is in itself a
ministerial statement. There is nothing else that I can add on to what I have said. Let those with ears hear. I have said everything about command agriculture. The only thing that I had left out was that we are going towards command fisheries, command livestock and command soya-beans. That is the only thing left. Our only challenge as Treasury is for us to source funds from the private sector to fund the programme but they should be prepared to sign a contract agreeing that they will be paid after a year. We signed a contract of 5% interest with Sakunda. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, I do not think there
is any problem for you to issue a ministerial statement taking cognisant of what is in the media and what the people are saying. Even though you have repeated this, it is good for you to bring a ministerial statement so that the nation gets to know where exactly you stand.
HON. KHUPE: My question is also directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Hon. Minister, businesses are slowly closing down, the reason being that they are unable to pay their foreign suppliers. They are also not able to buy raw materials from outside the country because they are unable to access foreign currency from banks. Bond notes cannot buy raw materials from outside the country, bond notes cannot pay foreign suppliers and besides, those bond notes are not available in banks. What is Government doing to make sure that businesses have access to foreign currency because this is the money which we need to move our economy forward?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank
the Hon. Member for the question. Before she goes to town about access, you must access something that is there. So, the first step we are taking is to ensure that there is foreign currency to be accessed. What we are doing is to incentivise those who are exporting. All of us are earning in US dollars but we do not make US dollars, none of us makes US dollars. So, the export incentive is primarily intended to build a larger pool of foreign currency so that we can meet the demands of manufacturers. I recognise the problem you mentioned about shortage of foreign currency to buy raw materials and so on. I consider it temporary in the sense that we have taken measures through the Central Bank to move away from the previous system of an over liberalised foreign exchange market. We are now moving towards a managed foreign exchange market.
We have set out priorities over usage of that foreign currency to address the key priority uses which are importation of fuel and raw materials. We are building - basically we are going towards there. The problems you mention are temporary in my view. I thank you.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I thank the
Minister for the words that he said about lack of foreign currency. From what Hon. Khupe said, there is also shortage of local currency, we realise there are bank queues and in this cold weather, people are sleeping at the banks to try and get money. At one time you were standing there and you said this will come to an end. You also said Dr. Mangudya will commit suicide if it does not come to an end but he is still alive. From what you said it seems like you are backtracking from what you had said earlier, the challenge still persists. Is there anything that is being done by your Ministry to address the challenges because we tend to think the Minister is not aware of the challenges and we think the Minister does not know what to do anymore?
This issue has affected workers, widows, pensioners and even
Members of Parliament have faced challenges in the banks. What is the Government doing to ease the cash crisis or the liquidity crunch in the country? I thank you.
HON. CHINAMASA: I encourage Members of Parliament to use
plastic money. Plastic money is not a challenge. Please understand me Vice President. There is no country that has a policy which states that all the money in the bank should be in physical cash. In our country, the deposits in the banks amount to US$7.2bn. So, it is impossible for us to give US$7.2bn in physical cash of US dollars. For us to get US dollars, we get it through exports and when we get that money, we then use that money to buy more cash from the Federal Reserve Bank in America. The money that we are supposed to buy fuel, we are now buying money for you to use. What I am saying is that each country says about 10% to 15% of bank deposit should be in physical cash, is that not the case? Now, when we look at it, we realise that what is in circulation is in line with about 11% but because of people who do not listen, they are the ones who are taking money, hoarding it and it is no longer in circulation.
The money has to circulate from Hon. Vice President going on to Hon. Chamisa then come back to Hon. Mpariwa. Right now money is not circulating because there are people who are hoarding that cash. We have taken other companies to court that since 2009, have not banked any money but they are in business and acquiring millions which they receive in cash. Those are issues that we are looking into. The main challenge is that you need to change your dirty mindset – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Remove this mindset that you need to buy everything in cash.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: The people that I raised this question for are people who are out there who are struggling to access cash. They are in queues right now. If you go outside and look at the bank close by, you will find that they are standing in queues and those are the people who are said to have a challenge in terms of their minds. The Minister said they have dirty mindset – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
*THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order please, Hon. Members on my
right. If I heard the Minister correctly, he made that statement of dirty mindset in general; he did not refer to anyone.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank you Mr. Speaker. The
Minister explained well but I want to understand on the issue of money that comes into Zimbabwe. Our banks right now, if you get money from outside the country you are questioned and for you to get that money, you need to explain what service you are offering and yet we are having challenges to bring money into the country. If you go to South Africa, if you get money from outside their country, they will just ask if you know the person. Here in Zimbabwe, it seems like there are so many questions asked for us to access that money. What can be done to ensure that we easily access money that is send by our relatives from outside the country?
HON. CHINAMASA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to
say that the Security Council of the United Nations has established a task force to counter anti money laundering and what the Hon. Member is raising; the restrictions, the bureaucratic procedures one has to go through before you receive your money or before any money is sent anywhere in the world, are a result of the measures which are insisted upon by the anti-money laundering taskforce which has set up an organ of the United Nations Security Council. This is basically to fight terrorism, money laundering and financing of drugs.
So, yes, the restrictions are very severe but also the penalties are even severe. If our banks do not comply, they stand to be excluded from the mainstream of the global financing system. I thank you.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would want to
understand from the Minister that, is it in line with the agreement that we made? If a person gets money from South Africa, a person is not asked so many questions like what happens here, which means there are so many people who are no longer sending money here because the questions are too many. If you are to get money as a consultant from a company outside the country, you are expected to fill in so many forms. Now, if you are an ordinary person, for you to fill in all those forms, you then find other means of getting your money. Does this situation have to do with the sanctions that have been imposed on us? What is happening here in Zimbabwe is not happening in other countries.
HON. CHINAMASA: It applies to all countries but sometimes in respect of the enforcement, they discriminate. In our case, they tend to discriminate on the basis that we are under sanctions. We are a sanctioned country and in our country there are sanctioned entities and that creates more problems for us than other countries, for instance Zambia. However, Zambia, Tanzania, all of us, are members of a 19member group, ZAMLAK which basically enforces within the membership, the rules of the Security Council.
However, I want to agree with the Hon. Member that being a sanctioned country, with sanctioned entities within our country, we are basically perceived, discriminated and sometimes the enforcement is discriminatorily done.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Earlier on, the Hon. Minister indicated that there is shortage of cash in the economy because people are hoarding which is true or either they are externalising. That one is a very clear indicator that the citizens have got no confidence in the financial sector and the economy of this country. What is Treasury doing to ensure that that confidence is restored? It is not about putting in laws and arresting companies, it is about restoring confidence. What are you doing to ensure that the confidence is restored so that people can put their money into the banks again?
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member is
correct that some of our challenges are a result of externalisation and in this respect, we are in touch now with the authorities in countries where our money is being externalised. So, sooner or later, we should have information on who is externalising money.
With respect to hoarding, we are taking measures like I said. Some of the measures could be legislative to ensure that large corporations which handle large volumes of cash on a daily basis, should be required to bank a percentage of that every day. We must restore the relationship with our banking sector. I do not agree with you that these are rising from lack of confidence; I consider them as acts of indiscipline. I thank you.
HON. CHAKONA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry. With the completion of Tokwe-Mukorsi Dam, what is Government policy with regards to the development of tourism facilities around the dam? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY
INDUSTRY (HON. ENG. MZEMBI): Thank you Hon. Chakona. The
valency between water and tourism is established in our policy but upon completion of the dam, Government has since assigned a multistakeholder team that has gone on the ground, initially to conceive policy and master planning around the asset with a view of making sure that it directs all actions regarding investment into and around the hinterland of Tokwe-Mukorsi Dam. For example, we did not have a fisheries policy; it will be a major element of what is missing currently around that facility. So, there are efforts to get a coordinated outcome through a master plan and it is work in progress. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question was
directed to the Minister of SME’s but unfortunately she has just left. I also wanted to congratulate her in her absentia, for being appointed the
President for the Committee of Development for Promotion on African Handicrafts, through the African Ministers which is comprised of 27 countries. I thank you.
HON. DR. MUKANDURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, in his absence, the Deputy-[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order!
* HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Transport. For those who travel from neighbouring countries such as Mozambique and South Africa and use our roads, there are traffic signs showing that there are animals or a curve ahead to guide the motorists that they have to be careful when approaching those areas. We want those who come into our country to have such information as they drive, but you will realise that some of these road signs are destroyed and are no longer there. We are requesting that in our Government policy, these road signs be attended to in order to reduce road carnage and also ensure that we have more tourists coming. We want to know where we stand as a Government and what plans are there in that regard. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank Hon. Mnangagwa for the question. The question that you posed, it is true that in some areas, the road signals have fallen off and are no longer there and visible. Our policy as Government is that the road signs should be replaced if they fall or in the event that they become dilapidated. However, I realise that what causes this is that those who are supposed to attend to the road signs do not have a budget and this derails the time that they are supposed to put them in place. I also want to hammer on the fact that on the road signals, as SADC countries, we need to have the same road signals to ensure that those from Mozambique going to Zambia, when they get to Zimbabwe, they do not behave as if they are learning how to drive because the road signals will be different.
However, that programme is being implemented. If you look at the road signs from Plumtree to Mutare, you will realise that the road signs are in line with the SADC road signs. So, we call this integration to facilitate ease of movement.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE ACTING
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I humbly suggest that time for questions without notice be extended. Thank you.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I object.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker, you recall that last week or two ago, the Minister of Transport made an undertaking that there was going to be a Ministerial Statement on very disturbing disasters that have continued to manifest on our roads. I am not so sure whether the Minister is still seized with the matter or perhaps it has skipped the Ministry. However, it is a very important one because we want to hear the progress and the measures that are being taken, particularly preventative and curative measures when it comes to accidents that have been a national scourge and phenomenon.
So, I am just asking if the Ministry is ready with that statement. If not, in terms of the chronological element, when is the Ministry able to favour this august House with such an important Ministerial Statement because we want to find ways of ameliorating the situation Hon.
Speaker. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): Thank you Mr. Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Chamisa for the question. Yes, the Ministerial Statement is going to come. We have been waiting for those who are doing investigations to actually ascertain what transpired during that accident and also consult stakeholders on the possible punitive measures that we can take as a Ministry. So, the Ministerial Statement will come – [AN HON. MEMBER: Time frame.] – It will now depend on how early we will be fed by the investigations, the results. So, that is coming. I thank you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
MOTIVATION TO SCHOOL TEACHERS
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Primary and
Secondary Education to inform the House of the Government’s plans to motivate Government school teachers so that the teachers are dedicated to their jobs.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I
would like to thank the Hon. Member for that pertinent question. The bedrock of success of any organisation depends on the motivation and calibre of its human capital. The conditions of service for Government employees however are set by the Public Service Commission under the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. I am aware that the Government through the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development established a housing revolving fund which disburses housing loans to civil servants inclusive of teachers.
I am also aware that the Ministry of Local Government and
National Housing is allocating housing stands to civil servants, including teachers as part of none monetary benefits. The Ministry of Primary and
Secondary Education has adopted new housing designs for teachers’ houses and has directed all district schools inspectors that where new classroom blocks are being built and new schools are being constructed, that should be accompanied by the necessary inclusion of teachers housing. You can only attract the best teachers if you offer adequate and quality accommodation.
The Ministry is currently retooling the teachers through the capacity development programme to enhance their skills and competences in order to respond to the digitals society and ever changing environment. The Ministry is also in discussion with the teachers over the Teaching Professions Council which seeks to restore the professional status of the teachers as well as to establish the code of conduct and professional standards of practicing teachers. In addition, the Ministry is also establishing a research centre which will be headquartered at the Early Learning Centre in St. Mary’s. All this is in an effort not only to physically make a difference in their welfare, but also in the professional sphere of their work in the Ministry. Thank you.
CONSTRUCTION OF BLOCKS AT NGWENYAMA PRIMARY
SCHOOL
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Primary and
Secondary Education to inform the House of the Ministry’s plans to build more blocks considering that there are 657 learners in only two blocks at Ngwenyama Primary School in Nketa Constituency and the number of learners will increase since they will be having grade seven classes next year.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCAITON (HON. DR. DOKORA): Hon. Members, the Ministry is
committed to the provision of quality and relevant education including appropriate infrastructure for our learners. Through the public sector investment programme (PSIP), the Ministry is rehabilitating schools and providing additional infrastructure as per site specific requirements. Parents are also fully supportive of the provision of infrastructure through their School Development Committees which indeed, confirms a shared vision with the Government. The Ministry has gone public including on the floor of this House to seek support through partnerships such as the Joint Venture Partnerships to develop school infrastructure.
We are looking for partners who shall build schools and transfer them to Government for those who can provide resources to build schools, so, we can contract the actual construction companies. Through these initiatives, expansion of schools such as the one in question will soon be realised. Your support and cooperation is therefore highly appreciated.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA) Order,
less noise in the House Hon. Members.
HON. DR. DOKORA: Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Members are
expected to urge their communities to support their education at the local level through their levy payment, working at school projects sites and in cases offering specialist support services. We all have once legacy to support in education, that of His Excellency not just for this country, but in a Pan African context as well. I am also looking at draft regulatory measures that will further enhance the pooling, application and transparent management of resources in the subsector of education. I shall be coming to this august House when the Education Amendment Bill is ready for debate in the House. Thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister indicate the progress on the private funders? We had a donor with $20 million, is that part of the private funding and how far has it gone?
HON. DR. DOKORA: The $20 million Hon. Speaker that we spoke about is a bilateral loan from OPEC and we have discussed the 17 schools that are in the construction pool using that loan facility. As of now we have 100 schools that are proposed under the joint venture, which is what I am referring to here and for which I will also be coming back to the House to seek some of the amendments that are now going to appear in the Education Amendment Bill that will support this initiative. We have arrived at a point where we have identified through our financial services advisor (IDBZ), a consulting firm for the 100 schools that must be constructed or started this year. So to that extent, I can confirm that we have identified the consultant and the sites for the pilot phase of the larger programme on construction of schools using joint venture/private sector money and working with the Government. Thank you.
SIGN LANGUAGE IN SCHOOLS
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education the steps taken by the Ministry to ensure that sign language is taught in schools.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCAITON (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. The
response is that under the Constitution of Zimbabwe, sign language is one of the 16 languages defined in the same document. As you are aware, the curriculum framework 2015/2022 has introduced new learning areas and updated existing ones. Within this context, sign language is within the language learning area and now part of languages to be used in special needs education and also used in examinations like any other.
I think Members might recall that when I announced results from ZIMSEC relating to the 2016 examinations, there was a significant rise in the component of special needs education candidates who went through examinations, reflecting the Ministry’s continued inclusive education policy. Material development officers for sign language are now part of the curriculum development unit at the Mt. Pleasant Complex. At the same time, special education is among the critical skills shortage areas covered under the teacher capacity development programme, in order for competences such as sign language teaching to be mainstreamed in our system.
The initial teacher training, and I must emphasise that the initial teacher training does not reside in my Ministry, it resides in another Ministry. All I can do is develop personnel in my system and make some provision in resource units that are located at cluster centres.
HON. MAJOME: I thank the Hon. Minister for his response and
do note that indeed, teacher training is not in his Ministry but I am wondering where he said that ‘all I can do is to develop units in my
Ministry’. Does the Hon. Minister not collaborate with the allied Ministry that is also supply chain of his Ministry? Is he not willing or able to actually meet with the other Minister so that the preparations that he is making in terms of the Constitution do bear fruit and are not put to waste.
HON. DR. DOKORA: In all fairness Hon. Speaker, I think that is a substantive question which requires the line Minister who has the mandate to do the initial training.
TIMETABLE FOR ECD CHILDREN
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education if he is aware that the ECD children as young as 4 years are spending the whole day from 7am to 4pm at school i.e. Avonlea Primary School and if he is also aware that this deprives them of the rest appropriate for their age and subjects them to hardship and health risks, especially in this cold weather.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): The District officials from
Warren Park – Mabelreign visited Avonlea Primary School today on 28th June, 2017 to establish the position of the dismissal time for the infant classes. The timetable indicates that ECD A and B finish their school day at 12 o’clock while Grade 1 and 2 finish at 12.45 p.m. grade 3 – 7 finish their school day a little later on.
Time
Day |
A S S E M B L Y |
07.30
0800 |
0800
0830 |
0830
0900 |
0900
0930 |
0930
1000 |
1000
1030 |
1030
1100 |
1100
1130 |
1130
1200 |
1200
1230 |
1230
1300 |
1300
1400 |
1400
1430 |
1430
1500 |
1500
1530 |
1530
1600 |
1530
1600 |
Monday | Math | Math | Eng | Eng | HERI
S.S |
SHO |
B R E A K |
FARE
ME |
FARE
ME |
V.P.AE | V.P.A |
L U N C H |
P.E | P.E | V.P.A | V.P.A | ||
Tuesday | Math | Eng | Math | Math | Agric | Agric | SHO | SHO | V.P.A | V.P.A | AGRIC | Agri
c |
P.E | P.E | ||||
Wednesday | Math | HER
I S.S |
HERI
S.S |
Eng | Eng | SHO | SCIE
TECH |
SCIE
TECH |
FARE
ME |
SHO | ICT | ICT | P.E | P.E | ||||
Thursday | Math | Scie
Tech |
Scie
Tech |
SHO | SHO | ENG | ENG | HERI
S.S |
V.P.A | V.P.A | AGRIC | P.E | P.E |
ECD-A TIMETABLE
A.M | 7.45 | 8.25 A.M | 8.45 | 9.05 | 9.25 | 9.45 | 10.45 | 11.05 | 11.25 | 11.45 |
Monday | Assembly | Free | Mass Display | English | P.E | B | Maths Science | Shona | V.P
Arts |
ICT |
Tuesday | Health | Play | P.E | Maths Science | Mass Display | R | English | V.P Arts | Shona | Heritage Studies |
Wed | And | Free | Mass Display | Shona | P.E | E | Maths Science | English | Heritage Studies | Free
Play |
Thurs | Arrival | Play | P.E | Maths Science | Mass Display | A | English | V.P Arts | ICT | Shona |
Friday | Assembly | Free
Play |
Mass Display | English | P.E | K | Maths Science | Shona | V.P
Arts |
Free
Play |
MASS DISPLAY | 20 X 5 | ENGLISH | 20 X 5 | ICT | 20 X 2 |
P.E | 20 X 5 | V.P ARTS | 20 X 5 | FREE PLAY | 20 X 7 |
MATHS SCIENCE | 20 X 5 | SHONA | 20 X 5 | HERITAGE STUDIES | 20 X 2 |
Class Timetable: Grade 3 Year 2017
Friday | Eng | Math | FARE
ME |
SHO | Agric | Agric | ENG | SCIE
TECH |
SCIE
TECH |
SHO | AGRIC | P.E | P.E |
Analysis
Subject Period | Time - Hours | ||
English 9 x 30 | = 4 hrs | ||
Ind. Languages 9 x 30 | = 4 hrs | ||
Maths 6 x 30 | = 3 hrs | ||
Heritage & Social Studies 4 x 30 | = 2 hrs | ||
FAREME 4 x 30 | = 2 hrs | ||
Visual Performing Arts (V.P.A) 8 x 30 | = 4 hrs | ||
Physical Education 10 x 30 | = 10 hrs | ||
ICT 2 X 30 | = 1 hr | ||
Science & Technology 8 x 30 | = 4 hrs | ||
Agriculture 8 x 30 | = 4 hrs |
Avonlea School
- Timetable for ECD- A finishes at 12 noon
- Timetable for ECD-B finishes at 12 noon
- Grade 1 and 2 finish at 1245 hrs
- Grade 3 (new curriculum) finishes at 1600 hrs to accommodate the needs of the new curriculum. It incorporates P.E, Agriculture and Visual Performing Arts which are done after lunch.
- Grade 4 – 7 lessons finish at 1315 hrs. Sporting and clubs are done up to 1600 hrs.
- Sports are done on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday.
- Clubs are done on Wednesday.
HON. MAJOME: Has the Hon. Minister then found out that
possibly that there are other extracurricular activities that are used to detain children to spend the whole day at school despite the timetable.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I am keen when Hon. Members take a
keen interest in the sub-sector but I would not go so far to say the people who are waiting at a law firm after 5 o’clock p.m have pecuniary activities beyond their normal service requirement of their lawyers at the law firm. I could not quite clearly be favoured with a timetable that is not official. What I have is what I must go by. This is the official timetable and allocates from 7.45 a.m there is School Assembly. At 8.45
a.m there is Mass Display and English is from 9.05 to 9.25 a.m, 20 minutes slots and so on. This is calibrated all the way to the dismal time that I have indicated. So, I stand by what my officials have indicated is happening on the ground. Thank you.
OVERSTAFFING OF YOUTH OFFICERS IN MANICALAND
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Youth Development,
Indigenisation and Empowerment to inform the House on the Ministry’s plans with overstaffing, especially in Manicaland where they have over 500 youth officers.
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT,
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT (HON. TONGOFA):
In response to the question I would say the employer of all civil servants is the Public Service Commission. As a result, it is the one which has the mandate to deal with its employees. As a Ministry, we abide by what the Public Service Commission would have said. I thank you.
HON. MASUKU: My supplementary question is that is it correct that you have got excess manpower in your Ministry?
HON. TONGOFA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Following the
rationalisation of the civil service yes - we used to have 3 – 5 youth officers per ward but the new establishment reduced them to one officer per ward. As a result, we ended up with excess staff but most of them are being moved to other ministries, for example the Ministry of Sport and Recreation, which is also seeking manpower from our Ministry. That is correct but the Public Service Commission is moving them to other ministries which need them.
PAY FOR EXCESS YOUTH OFFICERS
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment to inform the House if the excess youth officers in all the provinces are on the payroll.
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT,
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT (HON. TONGOFA):
Yes, they are on the payroll. As I have said, some of them have been moved to other areas that need them. Some of them are on the payroll, even those who are still within the Ministry and are to be moved to other areas are still on the payroll. I thank you.
REFUNDS BY PENSION FUNDS
- HON. N. MGUNI asked the Minister of Public Service Labour and Social Welfare to explain to the House why Pension Funds that own buildings and other properties which they rent out in United States dollars do not refund the money that was wiped out by inflation.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): May I just as
a point of correction state that instead of that matter being deferred for the attention of my Ministry, that question is actually wrongly placed. It is under IPAC and IPAC is under the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. This is the record, so that it does not continue to be placed under my Ministry.
GOVERNMENT FOOD DISTRIBUTION BENEFICIARIES
- HON. MPARIWA asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare to provide data and number of beneficiaries on districts and provinces covered by the government food distribution since the beginning of 2017.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr. Speaker
Sir, the food deficit mitigation programme has over the period continued with its noble task of feeding the food insecure households in all the ten provinces in Zimbabwe. This was an intervention to cushion the food insecure against the harsh effects of the El Nino induced drought. By end of January 2017, the number of households receiving food assistance stood at 809 279 and it reached 854 744 households by end of
May, 2017.
The increase in the number of households under Government registers was attributed to increase in distress calls which necessitated that beneficiary registers be updated all over the country as households requesting food assistance had to be assessed and registered. I have supplied the table showing the data that has been asked for.
Please find attached disaggregated data by province, district for the number of households and the cumulative grain distributed as at 21 June,
2017 as indicated below.
Manicaland | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Buhera | 30,000 | 1,5000.00 | 25,498.63 |
Chimanimani | 7,500 | 375.00 | 6,812.43 |
Chipinge | 16,242 | 812.10 | 14,596.14 |
Makoni | 10,276 | 513.80 | 9,018.64 |
Mutare | 8,400 | 420.00 | 7,252.10 |
Mutasa | 5,980 | 299.00 | 4,947.60 |
Nyanga | 7,422 | 371.10 | 6,320.92 |
Total | 85,820 | 4,291.00 | 74,446.46 |
Mash Central | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Bindura | 13,420 | 671.00 | 8,700.77 |
Guruve | 16,140 | 807.00 | 8,397.00 |
Mazowe | 34,578 | 1,728.90 | 12,941.00 |
Mbire | 16,500 | 825.00 | 14,296.00 |
Mt. Darwin | 44,912 | 2,245.60 | 21,513.40 |
Muzarabani | 10,144 | 507.20 | 11,573.60 |
Rushinga | 13,360 | 668.00 | 9,726.50 |
Shamva | 8,766 | 438.30 | 4,415.30 |
Total | 157,820 | 7,891.00 | 91,563.57 |
Mash East | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required | Cumulative distributed |
Chikomba | 2,741 | 137.05 | 2,277.65 |
Goromonzi | 4,474 | 223.70 | 3,763.04 |
Hwedza | 2,427 | 121.35 | 2,056.25 |
Marondera | 2,334 | 116.70 | 2,056.25 |
Mudzi | 12,804 | 640.20 | 10,254.31 |
Murewa | 13,948 | 697.40 | 9,936.44 |
Mutoko | 8,914 | 445.70 | 7,056.45 |
Seke | 592 | 29.60 | 496.45 |
UMP | 5,767 | 288.3 | 4,449.20 |
Total | 54,001 | 2,700.05 | 42,232.59 |
Mash West | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required per month | Cumulative distributed |
Chegutu | 22,161 | 1,108. 05 | 14, 929.34 |
Hurungwe | 31,842 | 1,592.10 | 17,637.31 |
Kadoma
Mondoro |
11,722 | 586.10 | 7,573.64 |
Kadoma
Sanyati |
14,380 | 719.00 | 7,629.73 |
Kariba | 7,950 | 397.50 | 12,197.48 |
Makonde | 18,355 | 917.75 | 12,197.48 |
Notorn | 4,868 | 243.40 | 3,911.26 |
Zvimba | 44,231 | 2,212 | 24,231.92 |
Total | 155,509 | 7,775.45 | 92,572.65 |
Masvingo | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required per month | Cumulative distributed |
Bikita | 23,411 | 1,170.55 | 13,125.00 |
Chiredzi | 17,598 | 879.90 | 17,840.45 |
Chivi | 11,492 | 574.60 | 10,480.45 |
Gutu | 13,241 | 662.05 | 10,804.17 |
Masvingo | 20,335 | 1,016.75 | 11,459.75 |
Mwenezi | 22,737 | 1,136.85 | 21,890.06 |
Zaka | 14,506 | 725.30 | 16,047.72 |
Total | 123,320 | 6,166.00 | 101,647.60 |
Mat North | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Binga | 15.884 | 794.20 | 11,884.20 |
Bubi | 6,885 | 344.25 | 5,200.30 |
Hwange | 9,196 | 459.80 | 6,970.74 |
Lupane | 14,295 | 714.75 | 9,334.05 |
Nkayi | 11,345 | 567.25 | 5,558.10 |
Tsholotsho | 14,370 | 718.50 | 9,304.45 |
Umguza | 14,525 | 726.25 | 9,12.90 |
Total | 86.500 | 4,325.00 | 57,381.74 |
Mat South | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distribution |
Beitbridge | 6,972 | 348.60 | 3,995.15 |
Bulilima | 10,040 | 502.00 | 4,192.11 |
Gwanda | 12,043 | 602.15 | 5,649.72 |
Insiza | 10,176 | 508.80 | 5,587.47 |
Mangwe | 7,920 | 396.00 | 3,074.00 |
Matopo | 11,291 | 564.55 | 3,855.60 |
Umzingwane | 8,350 | 417.50 | 4,453.85 |
Total | 66,792 | 3,339.60 | 30,807.90 |
Midlands | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Gokwe North | 18,356 | 917.80 | 12,219.41 |
Gokwe South | 22,772 | 1,138.60 | 16,231.00 |
Gweru | 3,470 | 173.50 | 2,538.80 |
Kwekwe | 9,263 | 463.15 | 5,933.63 |
Mberemgwa | 11,763 | 588.15 | 8,652.56 |
Mvuma | 4.584 | 229.20 | 4,054.05 |
Shurugwi | 7,158 | 357.90 | 5,562.24 |
Zvishavane | 12,353 | 617.65 | 9,146.82 |
Total | 89,719 | 4,485.95 | 64,338.51 |
Bulawayo | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Fort Street | 10,065 | 503.25 | 3,258.60 |
Tredgold | 8,872 | 443.60 | 3,034.30 |
Total | 18,937 | 946.85 | 6,292.90 |
Harare | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Chitungwiza | 3,361 | 168.05 | 872.80 |
Harare Central | 9,036 | 451.80 | 2,286.95 |
Highfield | 3,929 | 196.45 | 1,421.45 |
Total | 16,326 | 816.30 | 4,581.20 |
National | Actual h/h on registers | Grain required p.m. | Cumulative distributed |
Manicaland | 85,820 | 4,291.00 | 74,446.46 |
Mash Central | 157,820 | 7,891.00 | 91,563.57 |
Mash East | 54,001 | 2,700.05 | 42,232.59 |
Mash West | 155,509 | 7,775.45 | 92,572.65 |
Masvingo | 123.320 | 6,166.00 | 94,301.75 |
Mat North | 86,500 | 4,325.00 | 57,381.74 |
Mat South | 66,792 | 3,339.60 | 30,807.90 |
Midlands | 89,719 | 4,485.95 | 64,338.51 |
Bulawayo | 18,937 | 946.85 | 6,292.90 |
Harare | 16,326 | 816.30 | 4,581.20 |
Total | 854,744 | 42,737.20 | 558,519.26 |
ZIMVAC REPORT
- HON. MPARIWA asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Services to present the ZIMVAC report to Parliament.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
Speaker Sir, while the National Assembly requires the Ministry to present the ZIMVAC report to this august House, it is unfortunate that it is not possible to present the report as it is still in its final stages of preparation. However, let me take the opportunity to indicate to the Hon. Members the processes which have been covered so far.
The 2027 edition of the ZIMVAC was conducted with the field work and data entry having been completed. Preparation of draft report was done and the team is in the process of finalising the report. Once completed, the report will be tabled before the House. Earlier on in my submissions Mr. Speaker Sir, I said within the next two months, that report should be available. I thank you.
EMPLOYMENT OF THE DEAF
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services if government has a policy to employ people who are deaf.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE):
Zimbabwe is a state party to the UNCRPD, hence Government recruitment policies do not discriminate against disability but rather inclusion of all persons with disability. In our Constitutional alignment process, amendments to the Disabled Persons Act seek to introduce a quota system in the employment of persons with disabilities both in the public and private sector. That will promote inclusion of persons with disabilities in employment. I am therefore pre-empting these amendments seeking support of the House when the Ministry finally tables the Disabled Persons Bill.
HON. MAJOME: I thank the Hon. Minister for his response that shows a lot of hope. May I be indulged by being told possibly how far the Ministry has gone with its draft and when it proposes to bring the Bill and possibly what size of quota, maybe the range that the Ministry might be thinking of having for this very noble cause. I thank you.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. speaker Sir. The
draft policy is now pending Cabinet approval. We will be submitting it to Cabinet for its consideration but off the cuff, you will find that the quota of people living with disabilities in the country is between figures of 7% to 10 % going by the figures of the last census. So, one would say it would only be appropriate that we take on that percentage.
BOARDING PASSES FOR DEAF PEOPLE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services the procedure on issuing boarding passes for deaf people which they use to board buses and commuter omnibuses.
(b) To further explain to the House if the Minster is aware that deaf people are having difficulty accessing them.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA): Mr. Speaker,
whilst the Ministry is aware that the people are having difficulty in accessing boarding passes, it is unfortunate that it is not the Ministry’s mandate but rather these are self generated. We envisaged a situation where we can be seized with the mandate of issuance of authentic travel warrants for all persons with disabilities. Due to the current liquidity crunch, Government has indeed delayed in honoring the travel warrants hence transport owners shun them. Efforts are underway to encourage Treasury to expedite payment. We therefore urge transport operators to desist from turning away our people in need like the deaf.
My Ministry is in the process of drafting an awareness strategy which will include some of the issues like this. The Ministry instead issues travel warrants to those in need upon application. Travel warrants relate to social welfare assistance given to support access to transport (road and rail) services to vulnerable groups including those people with hearing impairment.
ALLOCATION OF GRANTS TO THE DEAF
- 36. MAJOME asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Services if deaf people are allocated a grant by Government. If so, how much is it and how often is it disbursed.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA): Mr. Speaker Sir,
the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare under the Department of Social Welfare administers the Disabled Persons Act (Chapter 17.01) and the Social Welfare Assistance Act (Chapter 17:06) meant to cater for needs of persons with disabilities including those with hearing impairment are assisted by the Government through the disbursement of grants as follows:
Administration
Administration grants are once off payments made to non-
Governmental Organisations (NGO’s) offering services to persons with disabilities to assist in their daily administrative operations. The grants are pegged at a rate of US$400 per institution and are paid out on a yearly basis.
Per capita
Per Capita grants are calculated at a rate US$15 per beneficiary per month and these per capita grants are meant to cater for the upkeep of inmates in the institution. These are paid upon claim by the institution.
Public Assistance
This grant is a monthly cash transfer given to individuals and households that aims at supporting beneficiaries to survive.
Beneficiaries are entitled to US$20 per month. I thank you.
DISTRIBUTION OF FOOD AND AGRICULTURAL INPUTS
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to explain what the Ministry has done to ensure that there is no biased distribution of food and agricultural inputs in light of the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission Consolidated Food Aid Report of August 2016 confirming the discrimination of suspected opposition supporters. Have the perpetrators been brought to book?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. First and foremost, the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission Consolidated Food Aid report, due to the manner in which it was adopted, this prompted our Ministry to summon the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission wherein the issue was discussed at length and recommendations were made to always engage Government at the highest level when such reports are being consolidated. As such, we have not auctioned on any alleged perpetrators burt rather, we have engaged all the relevant stakeholders to ensure that there is no partisan distribution of food.
Whilst we accept constructive feedback, and we have made efforts to set up complaints desk from head office to districts to ensure that such complaints are well received and acted upon.
As part of ensuring the fair and equitable distribution of food and agricultural inputs, the following measures were effected to ensure efficient programme delivery to the intended beneficiaries.
- Targeting of beneficiaries based on a combination of scientific studies such as ZIMVAC and community based verification and registration of beneficiaries at village level;
- Dissemination of information about the programme during a number of workshops/meetings with stakeholders during the year; and
- Provision of an appeal process to allow persons to seek redress of the grievances. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: I heard the Hon. Minister saying that they summoned the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission and I would want to know what authority they had to summon an independent commission that is independent in terms of the Constitution and mandated to have its independence respected and is not summonable. Does that not amount to attempting to coerce the commission and intimidate a commission that is required to be independent?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
Hon. Majome, it is a question of semantics. If it pleases you, we invited the Human Rights Commission for a discussion on that matter.
NSSA PENSION SCHEME
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare to:
- State how long it takes for one to qualify for NSSA Pension Scheme.
- State what happens to funds in the event that one has not
contributed for the period required.
- Indicate when the Ministry will align the pensionable age for
NSSA to that of the rest of Government pensionable age.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): NSSA
has three main social security pension branches under the pension and other benefits scheme with different qualifying contribution periods as follows:
Retirement Pension: A member qualifies for a retirement pension after contributing for a period of at least 120 months (10 years).
Survivor’s Pension: Paid to the surviving dependents of a deceased contributor after at least 120 months (10 years) of contributing to the NSSA Scheme.
The following categories of individuals are eligible to apply for the survivor’s benefit:
Widow/Widower receive pension until death provided they do not remarry and the marriage should have been contracted before the retirement or invalidity of the contributor. They receive 40% of what the contributor would have received.
Dependent Children of the deceased who are below the age of 18 and or those who are below 25 years, provided they are in full time education. Permanently disabled children who are incapable of supporting themselves receive the benefit until death regardless of age.
They receive 40% of what the contributor would have received.
Parents of the deceased contributor receive 12% of what the deceased contributor would have received.
Any other dependents are also eligible to receive 8% of the benefit entitlement:
This benefit is paid out to the surviving claimants in order of priority starting with the spouse and children.
If a contributor’s contribution period does not meet the minimum pension contributor requirements, a grant (once off payment) or contribution refund will be paid out as illustrated below:
Retirement Grant: A Member who attains pensionable age after contributing for at least 12 months but less than 120 months (10 years) qualifies for a retirement grant that is a once off payment.
Retirement Refund: A member who retires from employment after contributing for less than 12 months will get a refund of contributions with a 7% interest.
The retirement ages for the national pension and other benefits scheme are as follows:
Early Retirement – 55 years – Only contributors who would have been employed in arduous occupation as specified under the second schedule of S. I. 393 of 1993 such as mining, agricultural work, forestry work and Railway Enginemen.
Normal Retirement – 60 years - All other contributors are allowed to retire at 60 years.
Late Retirement – 65 years – A contributor may elect to continue working but will not contribute beyond 65 years. The contributor must therefore claim retirement benefit on reaching 65 years.
Since a Civil Servant’s late retirement age is 65, there is therefore no misalignment. Our Actuaries are however, looking at the impact of varying the listed scenarios on the level of the pensions and continued viability of the scheme. The reviews are necessary to prepare the authority for the reforms that may be critical in the future.
HON. GABBUZA: I want further clarification from the Minister. What would happen to a civil servant or any employee who remains at work even beyond 65 years when he is due to receive his retirement package?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Mr. Speaker Sir, after the cut
off age of 65 years, if a person continues to work, there will not be any pension deductions to that person. That person is then considered retired and would be due for the pension that has been accrued; but from 65 years onwards, they cannot be contributing to the fund. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Is there a choice where you can apply for early retirement? It appears that you consider the late retirement even if the 65 years one has left work. If one would want it to come early and you have completed the number of years required, is there any such possibility that one could do that?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, like
I said, after the age of 55, depending on the sector that you are working in, if it is arduous work, early retirement is considered. In the other categories, after the age of 60, if one wants to apply for early retirement that option is considered. I thank you.
COST OF MOTOR VEHICLE NUMBER PLATES
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain why the cost of motor vehicle number plates is so expensive considering that cheap material is used to produce them.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): If my understanding of the question is correct, the selling price of the number plates is that high, that is, it costs $160 mainly because the cost of producing it is high. It is neither cheap to produce the current motor vehicle number plate nor is it made from cheap material. It costs us about $100 to produce a set of vehicle registration documents, that is, front and rear number plates, the registration book and the third number plate for a motor vehicle.
The material used in making motor vehicle plates is high quality aluminium. In addition, the Zimbabwe motor vehicle number plates unlike the majority that are found in the region, are embedded with a number of security features in order to avert the problem of use of clone number plates by criminals and other such persons who may choose not to comply with vehicle registration legislation.
My Ministry in consultation with the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development is more than prepared to make some concessionary reductions. At the moment, we already have a draft proposal paper where we have proposed a reduction in the number plate user fees given the fact that the last downward review was made in 2009. In that draft paper, we see opportunities to reduce the user fee charge for motor vehicle number plates to $125 and that of trailers to $105.
We are also considering a reduction in the replacement cost for a damaged or lost number plate in respect of number plates for public service vehicles and private vehicles from the current $160 and $140 to $90 and $75 respectively. It is our considered view that the proposed downward reviews in number plate user charges will contribute in a small way towards Government policy on ease of doing business.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: My supplementary question is that in
the event that one of the number plates has been lost, why is that you insist on the vehicle having new number plates instead of reverting to the old or original number plate that can then tell the story of the vehicle to say this vehicle was bought on such a day and it was registered on such a day. Where is the logic in you then saying no, we discard that number plate and we start with a new one?
HON. ENG. MADANHA: This is mainly due to the fact that a
number plate is just like a passport and it has got security features. We would like to say that when you lose one number plate, definitely you have to apply for a new set of number plates because of the security features that are there. It is a security embedded number plate. So, we definitely have to get a new set of number plates. I thank you.
*HON. MUKWENA: My supplementary question is that if only
the material that is used for the number plates is durable because that material is not durable at all.
HON. ENG. MADANHA: These number plates are imported and
we have considered as a Ministry that there should be a downward review because most of our stakeholders are actually yearning for the reduction of the cost of the number plates and we are definitely going to reduce the cost. I thank you.
HON. MASIYA: What is worth over $40 to replace a third number plate? What is that which cost up to that amount?
HON. ENG. MADANHA: As I have stated before, it is because of
the security features that are on these number plates that the cost actually goes to that amount. I thank you.
STATUS OF NATIONAL RAILWAYS OF ZIMBABWE
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House on the current status of National Railways of Zimbabwe in terms of its recovery programme.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): Following approval by Cabinet for the NRZ to float its tender to raise funds for the recapitalisation of the organisation, the following events have since taken place:
- The request for proposals was gazetted on 5 May 2017, and subsequently appeared in the local press. Advertisements were placed in the press in South Africa and an international newspaper in the
United Kingdom. Direct communication was sent to Zimbabwean Embassies in Russia and China. Various other companies that had expressed interest in the recapitalisation were also invited to bid.
- A compulsory pre-bid conference was held on 30 May 2017 in Bulawayo, which was attended by 82 potential bidders.
- A non-compulsory tour of NRZ facilities and infrastructure was conducted from 6 to 9 June 2017 as part of their due diligence. The tour covered NRZ’s workshops in Bulawayo to Dete Section of the line and the Dabuka Marshalling Yard. Twelve potential bidders attended the tour.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the tender is due to close on 4th July, 2017, after which adjudication will take place, with a target of submission of recommendations to the Ministry by the board on 1st August, 2017.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the NRZ has also been sourcing for finance from local banks to repair locomotives and wagons as an interim measure to improve capacity and business volumes. To date, the organisation has secured a loan of $5 million from a local financial institution, which will be used to repair five locomotives and 200 wagons. The requisite approvals from the board and Government are being processed. In the meantime, the organisation has so far this year overhauled 165 wagons using its own resources.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the NRZ has also been involved in negotiations with a Russian wagon manufacturer, UNIWAGON for the supply of 100 new wagons through a $10 million facility from the Russian Exim Bank. The NRZ has submitted a business case on its capacity to service the loan and other relevant documentation, which the Russians are currently going through.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the NRZ has engaged a consultant to assist in the right sizing of the organisation against the background of its failure to meet its wage bill requirements. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES POLICY
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Small and Medium
Enterprises and Co-operative Development to explain the Small and Medium Enterprises Policy and the Ministry collaborates with local authorities to implement it.
THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM
ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON.
NYONI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking the question and I have divided my answer into two sections. Firstly, the goal of the Small and Medium Enterprises is to provide a robust enabling environment for our people to develop and promote the diverse economic opportunities. The policy maps out measures to address the challenges being faced by the Micro Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMES). The Small and Medium Enterprises policy is a national document which sought to articulate diversified issues on MSMEs development in Zimbabwe and is implemented by various stakeholders inclusive of local authorities.
The second part of my answer is to explain how the Ministry collaborates with the local authorities to implement this policy. There are some sections of the policy that fall under the purview of local authorities, especially to do with MSMEs infrastructure provision and maintenance of an enabling legal and regulatory environment with focus on implementing the local authorities by-laws.
The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative
Development has had the opportunity to visit various Rural District Councils (RDCs) to check on how the SMEs policy is being implemented. Examples of RDCs visited are Murewa, Filabusi,
Plumtree and in Manicaland we visited Chipinge to mention just a few. It was however noted that most rural local authorities implement the policy in a systematic manner better than urban local authorities. The variance may be attributed to the high density (increased number) of SMEs in urban authorities compared to rural local authorities. The Ministry has a decentralised structure up to district level and officers in the Ministry are there to assist the local authorities where they have challenges in implementing our policy. I thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE ACTING
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ( HON. CHINAMASA), the House
adjourned at Nine Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 18th July, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 27th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 1) BILL
[H.B. 1, 2017]
First Order read: Resumption of the Committee Stage: Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 1) Bill [H. B. 1. 2017].
House in Committee.
On Clause 6:
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): I move the amendment standing in my name that on
page 3 of the Bill, in Clause 6, delete sub-clause (2) on lines 13, 14 and
HON. GONESE: As I have pointed out, I will proceed to debate the Clause. In debating the Clause, I just want to say to the Hon. Vice President that I did hear the response that he gave but perhaps due to the inadequacy of time there were some matters which were not adequately responded to which I would like to speak to. In particular, I would like to say that the submissions made were to the effect that let us try to improve the existing Clause by providing a safety valve and I want to reiterate that this suggestion was not only made by Members of Parliament coming from your left but also by the Chairperson of the
Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi and in particular, this was the suggestion that instead of simply informing the Senate, instead we have a scenario where the approval of one of the Houses is sought.
In this regard, I would like to draw the attention of the Hon. Vice President to Clause 339 of our Constitution which has got separate provisions which speak to either advice or consultation. I do appreciate the argument advanced by the Hon. Vice President that he would like to have the President have the discretion to make the appointment.
However, I would want to say that in view of the sentiments expressed by some members in this august House, what we are seeking is a situation where we have some safety valves; something which can vaccinate against unfettered and unbridled discretion being exercised by an individual.
The proposal that we are making in this regard is simply to subject that appointment to the scrutiny of one of the Houses, whether it is going to be the Senate or the National Assembly. I do not think it matters too much but what is important is to look at what happens in other jurisdictions. When members in their debate referred to the American Constitution, I just want to point out that in terms of the American Constitution, their President makes the appointment of the Chief Justice with the advice and approval of their Senate and that is the clause we were seeking to have.
In his response, the Hon. Vice President made reference to the Three Arms of the State and there I agree with him. When you have got the Judiciary, it must be taken as an Arm of the State in its own right.
The Legislature is an Arm of the State in its own right and we also have the Head of the Executive. However, where I slightly have some difficulty in understanding the logic of the arguments advanced by the Hon. Vice President is where he stated that when you have got the Head of State and you have got the Three Arms of the State, the President is effectively the head of all the three Arms. If I understood him correctly, I have got some difficulty in accepting and understanding that proposition. I believe that these three Arms are separate and more importantly, the reason why you have them and why you have the doctrine of separation of powers is to have them existing separately, each one with its own specific role.
It is common cause that the main role of the Executive is to govern, that of the Legislature is to make laws and the Judiciary interprets those laws. I think it is appropriate for the Judiciary to have a say in the appointments. I know that in terms of the proposed amendment, the Judiciary does have a say but that say is only to be consulted and unfortunately Section 339 says that whenever any authority is required to consult, it is not bound by the advice given by the authority so consulted.
The reason why I am raising this point is that we have debated it before but I would think that our Constitution would be improved. If we were to say for example, as an alternative, if the Hon. Vice President is not amenable to the Legislature, either through this august House or the Senate being required to give its approval, why do we not perhaps go back to a situation where the appointment is made on the advice of the Judiciary Services Commission?
This suggestion would take care of the sentiments expressed by the Hon. Vice President in his response about the spectacle of having your prospective Chief Justice being interviewed in public. This spectacle would be removed if we simply say that the appointment is going to be made on the advice of the Judiciary Services Commission. This means the Judiciary Services Commission would have a more direct and meaningful role. The President would then be guided by the advice of that Commission which is responsible for the running of the Judiciary.
At the same time, you are now striking a balance and you no longer have a situation where your prospective three top judicial officers, which is the Chief Justice, his Deputy and the Judge President are not subjected to that spectacle. More importantly, it takes care of the concerns raised by the Executive of having perhaps the juniors interviewing their seniors or what they referred to as professional incest where you are going to have members of the Judiciary having that role to interview a person who may then become their senior upon appointment.
So, I would like to ask the Hon. Vice President to take seriously the suggestions that I am making with a view to having a constitutional provision that we can all be proud of and that in the future will serve this nation better than the amendment which is before the House. The existing clause which we wish to reiterate places too much power in the hands of one individual. Those are my submissions Mr. Chairman.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Chair. There is one observation that I have got and it speaks to the Fifth Schedule in our Constitution, in particular Part 2, Subsection 6 which relates to disagreements in terms of the Bills. The present section on this Bill, the amendment Bill of the
Constitution, Section 6 (3) in particular says, if the appointment of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice or Judge President of the High Court is not consistent with any recommendations made by the Judiciary Service Commission in terms of Subsection 2, the President shall cause the Senate to be informed as soon as is practicable.
On the Fifth Schedule of the Constitution, Part 2, Section 6 which states that where the Bill has originated, that is the place that is supposed to concur or informed. In this instance, this Bill would have originated in the National Assembly. On Section 6, in terms of disagreements between Houses, a Bill presented to the President in accordance with the paragraph is deemed to have been duly passed by Parliament in the form in which it is presented to the President. If there has been any disagreements, this Bill will need to be referred back to the National
Assembly or the National Assembly needs to be informed and not the Senate. This is my observation and I think there could have been an oversight there. It is not the Senate that is originating, it is the National Assembly and it will be referred back to the National Assembly. I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE
LEGAL AND PARLIAMNENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Chairman, I will reply for the third time the same question which Hon. Gonese has raised three times and three times I have replied. I will also reply again. The State is constituted of three pillars. No singular pillar is a State but the three pillars of State constitute the State and these pillars are the Executive, Judiciary and the Legislature. These are the three pillars which constitute the State. The President is the Head of State. When these pillars are put together, then we have the President as the Head of State which has three pillars.
However, the Constitution provides that one pillar of the State which is the Executive is headed by the President who also rises up to head the State. I said this and I am repeating. If it was possible to say it in Shona, I would have said it but it is difficult. I believe he is able to understand but he continues to ask the same question.
What the American Constitution says I think is suitable to America. We are stating what is suitable to Zimbabwe. The appointment of the Chief Justice will be done by the President after consultation with the Judicial Service Commission. It is very clear in the Constitution that for every office that falls vacant, that of the Chief Justice included, there is need to have three nominees for each vacant position. In the case of the Chief Justice, the President has to submit three nominees to the Judicial Service Commission for the purpose of consulting the Judicial Service Commission in relation to qualifications, probity and integrity. This is then ranked and recommendations are made to the President. The President has the discretion to select from the three as evaluated by the Judicial Service Commission. That I have already said – I am only repeating because he is repeating the same question.
With regards to Hon. Nduna, I did not really understand his argument but we are providing that where the Judicial Service
Commission has made a recommendation which the President has not followed, we require him to notify the Upper House, the Senate. That is the provision which we have put. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 6 put and agreed to.
Clause 6, as amended, put and agreed.
- [HON. GONESE: Divide the House!]-
Clause 7 put and agreed to - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
HON. GONESE: Mr. Chairman, we challenged your ruling on Clause 6 and we are entitled to do that. We have challenged your ruling and you have not listened.
On a point of order….
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Gonese, please take
your seat. We are already past that.
But I was on my feet and I challenged your
ruling. I think it is not fair. Can you allow me to speak? I have a point of order.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I have already made a ruling, where were you?
HON. GONESE: I was here. You were ignoring me. I was here and I said point of order but you were ignoring me. Obviously, we cannot proceed. I was here and I said divide the House.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Just take your seat. Hon. Gonese, resume your seat - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: I am saying I have a point of order. I stood up and you ignored me. You cannot do that Mr. Chairman. When I ask you, you must respond to me.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: When I said those of the same opinion, your number was small.
HON. GONESE: How do you know?
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: How do I know? Do I have
to account for what I hear?
HON. GONESE: You have to explain when I challenge your
ruling.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: How do I challenge when you were quiet…
HON. GONESE: No, I was not quiet. You were ignoring me and looking at - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: No, I was not ignoring you -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: I raised this at an appropriate time. Rules are rules even if we are a minority.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I said those of the same opinion will say ‘aye’ and you said ‘aye’ - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
On the amendment, we did not object but on Clause 6, I stood up. It is not fair. These are the rules. I am entitled to challenge your ruling.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: But you are talking of Clause 6 - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, order Hon. Member.
HON. GONESE: Can I make a point of order?
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, I will give you time.
With all fairness Hon. Gonese, we have done Clause 6 - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: Can you allow me to speak Mr. Chairman
because I believe that as a Chairperson, you are sitting in that Chair as an impartial person. I was on Clause 6 and fortunately, the cameras are here and you can play them back. When we were on Clause 6, I stood up immediately. I am not objecting to the amendment…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Gonese, in all fairness,
you were calling for a division of the House. That is what you said and not that you wanted it to be debated. You said let us divide the House
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: Can you please hear me? Let us go over the rules…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no. You said let us divide the House.
HON. GONESE: Can you just allow me to speak?
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Can you say yes or no. Did you not say…
HON. GONESE: Mr. Chairman, I am not under cross examination. With due respect, let us go to the rules.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Then I will not give you the
time.
With all due respect, let us go to the rules. The
rule says that if your office as the Chair makes a ruling, a person can challenge the ruling. That is in accordance with the Westminster type of democracy. You can look at all the books on that. When we challenge your ruling Mr. Chairman, you can then use one or two methods. One is to divide the House as we have said. You can also revert to the provision in the Standing Order if you wish but today you did not do that.
Because when I challenged, you said I think the ‘ayes’ have it. Then I said divide the House…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Alright…
HON. GONESE: You are suppressing my rights.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no. Look…
HON. GONESE: No, no. you are suppressing my rights.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: But you want to suppress my
rights?
HON. GONESE: Alright, I am listening Mr. Chairman.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Take your seat. Can you go
to Clause 2 of 125 where it says, “if however, the Chair is of the opinion that a division is unnecessarily claimed or is in abuse of the rules of the House, he or she must decline to direct that a division must take place…”, and that is exactly what happened. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: That is done formerly. May I now respond to you? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Chairman, I think that we will not accept this – [HON. MATUKE: No, no, we cannot allow you to abuse the House.] – Hon. Member, I am still talking to the Chair – [HON. MATUKE: He has made a ruling] - - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. MATUKE: No, we will not allow you to waste our time.] - Mr. Chairman, let me make a suggestion…
THE DEPUTYCHAIRPERSON: I have already made a ruling – [HON. MATUKE: A ruling has already been made, so you cannot insubordinate the House. You have to abide by the rules.] –
No, no let me respond, if you refer me to a rule Mr. Chairman, I should respond to it. – [HON. MATUKE: We will not allow you to do that.] -
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I have made my ruling, may
you resume your seat please Honourable.
HON. GONESE: I want to respond and I know the rules. Can you allow me – [HON. MATUKE: How can you insubordinate the House? You cannot do that, he has made a ruling.] I am not abusing the
House. It is you who is abusing the House because - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: You said let us divide the
House. We are not going to divide the House because it is not necessary.
- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: No, no, you cannot do this, you must also allow me to explain myself - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Chairman, when you are presiding, you are a neutral person - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. KHUPE: Hon. Chairman, there are two different views in this matter. So because there are two different views, you must divide the House - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It is very necessary because this a very serious issue Mr. Chairman - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, we will not accept it. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We will not proceed if you do not want us to divide the House - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order please resume your seats. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – When the
Chair has made a ruling, it has to be adhered to. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I made my ruling and am not going back on that. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Tough luck. -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. It is important that we recognise the sentiments of the opposite bench. The
sentiments of the opposite bench are necessary that you listen to them so that you are seen to be neutral. Your division of the House will not change anything but make sure that people express what they want. So it is important that is done. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order Hon. Member, I
put the question and you said ‘Aye’ and the ‘Ayes’ were more than the
‘Noes’, that is it. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Mr. Chairman, yes it is your ears that heard the ‘Ayes’ - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: This is what I am saying that I have ears to hear as the Chairman. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: You must realise the opinion of the opposite side of the bench - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Yes, the Chairman’s ears and not your ears. Hon. Minister, Clause 8 amendment.
On Clause 8:
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): I move the amendment standing in my name that on
page 7 of the Bill, line 13, after the words “Civil”, insert the words, “and criminal”.
Amendment to Clause 8 put and agreed to.
Clause 8, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Third Reading: Thursday, 29th June, 2017.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Thank you very much Madam Speaker, but my understanding is that the Hon.
Leader of the House moved that the Third Reading should come on Thursday. I believe that it is within our rights to debate that motion because any motion that is made in this august House is subject to debate. I believe that when he is making a proposal, it is a motion that the Third Reading must be on Thursday. In other words, there are three options.
The first option for that Third Reading is that it will be done now. When the Hon. Vice President can seek - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] – Yes, that is the first option. The second option is that it can be done tomorrow. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The other scenario is that it can be done tomorrow since it is a sitting day, so we can still debate the propriety of having the Third Reading deferred to either tomorrow or Thursday. It is within our rights to say tomorrow or Thursday. It is within our rights to express our own sentiments; our own views as to when that Third Reading can be done. I know he is in charge of the Bill but it is also our entitlement to respond because he has made a proposal. I want to make a response to that proposal, and I believe that he did not afford us that opportunity. You ask for either debate or objection.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Hon. Gonese,
according to our Standing Rules and Orders, Section 139 states “not more than one stage of a Bill must be taken at the same sitting without the leave of the House”. So, the Vice President and Minister of Justice,
Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has asked that the Bill be done on Thursday, which is allowed by our Standing Rules and Orders.
HON. GONESE: I am allowed to respond, because we can
suggest tomorrow, which is a sitting day. It is within out rights because he has moved; whatever he says is a motion; a motion that we should have the Third Reading on Thursday. Those are motions without notice. If you say can we adjourn a debate, it is a motion. If a Bill is going for the Third Reading and you say ‘Thursday’, it is a motion to which you should ask for debate or objection. That is what the procedures provide for. You ask is there any objection, then we may or may not object, but you cannot pre-determine or pre-suppose what the House is going to say.
He has made a proposal that the Third Reading of the Bill should be on Thursday. We are entitled to respond and perhaps provide an alternative and say tomorrow, 28th June, which is a sitting day. That is my entitlement and my right to respond to say that well, he has made that proposal which amounts to a motion, then I or any other Member for that matter can respond and make a suggestion, a proposal or an objection.
Hon. Matuke having stood to move that the Third Reading of the Bill be done on Thursday.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, let me respond
to the point of order that was raised by Hon. Gonese. Hon. Gonese, the sponsor of the Bill decides when the next stage can be taken. I, as the Speaker right now, stand with the decision of the Vice President.
HON. GONESE: It is a decision of the House. I reject that contention Madam Speaker. You put it to the House. It is the House which decides, it is not your decision. You are misleading the House. Every time you adjourn a debate you ask – why do you then ask for other motions. Whenever there is a motion for the adjournment of the House, you say to when Hon. Minister and he says tomorrow and you ask is there any objection. Why do you ask? You ask because the decision of adjournment or when this motion ultimately rests with the august House. The mover of the motion simply postulates when he/she wants the debate to continue, then you put it to the House. Today, you did not. You simply say read the next Order, which is unprocedural.
The procedural way is when the Hon. Vice President has moved his motion that the Third Reading be held on Thursday, you then ask – that is why every time whenever such motion arise in this House you ask the question. Today for some strange reasons, you did not ask. That is the reason why I am on my feet to object to say you have departed from our usual procedure. Ask and if we are to be defeated that will be so, but we have to exercise our rights.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, can you give me
a chance to respond? I am hearing what you are saying, but in accordance with the rules and the procedures of Parliament – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Which ones.] – The same ones which Hon. Gonese was talking about. Section 139 of the Standing Orders and I did not ask for any objection at this stage because it does not arise.
HON. GONESE: We have been in this House - every time you have always asked that question. Why depart from it now? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – She must not suppress our rights, the Chairpersons. We should be entitled to respond, which she did not do. She should ask us, or else let us divide the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I have given you
enough time and in accordance with the Standing Rules that I have right now, Section 139, I will not allow any further interruptions from you.
HON. GONESE: Place it on record Madam Chair that we have
said that you have not followed the proper procedure. We just want it placed on record that as far as we are concerned, the Chair; the Hon. Office of the Speaker has not proceeded in accordance with the rules of practice which we have been employing in this august House all the time. Whenever a motion has been moved - for any motion to be heard on any particular day, the question has always been put.
Today, the reasons best known to your office, you decided to depart from that practice. We want it recorded that we have objected and have said that you have proceeded out of line with the rules of practice and the rules of procedure which we use in this august House, which are in line with the practice of Commonwealth jurisdictions and Parliaments.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think Hon. Gonese you are so
much misplaced on this one because the procedures that are here, that have always been there, only ask for the one who proposes the Bill to decide what day of the reading. It is only after the Minister has sought for the leave of the House that I ask for the objection. In this case, he had already said he was moving that the Bill be read on Thursday. So, there was no need for me to raise an order for objection. I am on the right track.
COMMITTEE STAGE
ESTATES ADMINISTRATORS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 8, 2016]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: Estates Administrators
Amendment Bill [H.B. 8, 2016].
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): I move that the debate on the Committee Stage be moved to Thursday.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Order of the Day, Number Three
be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SITHOLE: On a point of order. My point of order is on a different issue which is of national importance and I was requesting that maybe this august House takes note and acknowledges what has happened in the past. Since today is 27th June, maybe as Parliament we can propose that this day becomes a national holiday in commemoration of the atrocities and genocide in slow motion which happened in 2008 when we lost more than 200 members. Thank you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Sorry Hon.
Sithole. Hon. Sithole, order, order.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I concur, Hon. Speaker. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I did not hear you Hon.
Sithole. Can you repeat your point of order?
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is on a different note. It is a matter of national importance, of the history of this nation which you should acknowledge as the august House. We are proposing that we have a national holiday in remembrance of the people who were killed towards the 27 June election, in that one man race which happened here in Zimbabwe. As you can hear, Madam Chair, those who are complaining are actually suspects to the things that happened – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. MUNENGAMI: I support the motion, Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that the House revert back to Order of the Day, Number 3. I realise that the Minister is present.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
COMMITTEE STAGE
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B. 2, 2017]
Third Order read: Committee Stage: National Peace and
Reconciliation Commission Bill [H. B. 2, 2017].
House in Committee.
On the Preamble:
HON. GONESE: Mr. Chairman and the Hon. Minister, I have proposed an amendment to the preamble and the proposal is clearly set out on the Order Paper and I want to explain the rationale and the motivation for making that amendment.
The reason why I have made that proposal, Mr. Chairman, is that if you look at the current preamble it simply makes reference to the
Constitution and the proposal that I am making is seeking to improve the Bill by giving the background. I want to believe that this is an amendment which is being made in good faith; this is also an amendment which is being supported by various organisations who are engaged in matters relating to peace and reconciliation.
If you look at the suggestion that I have made, Hon. Minister, you will find that it is really giving the contextual background, the reasoning behind the provision in the Constitution which led us, as a nation, to have the proposal to have such a Commission put in place. If you look at the wording of the proposed amendment, it speaks for itself. I just want to highlight a few aspects from it.
What we are seeking to do, Mr. Chairman, is to say that as a nation, we are seeking to move away from the past and as a nation, we want to embrace the call to dialogue and truth. To seek a new path to a future which has got peace and respect for human rights, and a future which has got hope and love, which can have a new culture of justice and accountability. I believe that this proposal does not take away anything from the Bill; but instead, will improve it and I actually earnestly hope that the Hon. Minister will take this into consideration and will accede to that proposal to amendment the preamble.
With those submissions, Mr. Chairman, I hope that we can have a meeting of the minds. This is not a partisan proposal. It is a proposal which I think, if we reflect carefully upon it, you will find that there would be no reason for any objection because I believe that this will enhance and advance the interests which we want to protect by introducing the Bill. I therefore seek the support of all Hon. Members in this august House and in particular, the acquiescence of the Hon. Minister so that his amendment can be taken on board. That is my proposal.
I so move the amendment standing in my name that in line 10 on page 3 of the Bill, to delete the words “WHEREAS sections 251 to 253 of the Constitution provide as follows:” and to substitute:
“WHEREAS Zimbabwe must seek a departure from a past of violence and gross violation of human rights, and a transition from fear and hatred, and instead must embrace the call to dialogue and truth, seeking a new path to a future of peace and respect for human rights, a future of hope and love, a new culture of justice and accountability;
AND WHEREAS the Constitution provides that path to justice, dialogue and restoration, to truth-telling and the making of amends, to support and rehabilitation of victims, and offers new tools for the construction of a society of sustainable peace through the establishment of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission;
AND WHEREAS sections 251 to 253 of the Constitution provide as follows:”
HON. MAJOME: Thank Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to speak in support of the, I believe, very noble proposals that have been proposed by Hon. Gonese in the spirit of making laws for the order and good governance of Zimbabwe.
I tend to agree with him, Mr. Speaker Sir, because I want to believe that you will also agree that there is no benefit or value that is to be found in regurgitating provisions of the Constitution that are already there as it is the supreme law. Rather, there would be value in putting in substantive provisions that actually put matters of national peace and reconciliation in a better state. I can think of nothing better than to try and marry what is in the Constitution with what the Bill will propose to do, which is providing a link.
I also want to express that even before the present Clause 1 of the Bill, the Bill would propose to do something that it is not doing, that of putting into operation a commission that is already in operation in terms of the Constitution. So, we will be able to solve that problem by removing those provisions of the Constitution because we already have the Constitution and substituting them with these proposals by Hon.
Gonese. These provide a practical link between what is in the
Constitution and what it is that the Bill proposes to do. I thank you.
HON. CHINANZVAVANA: I stand in support of the
amendment proposed by Hon. Gonese in the spirit of embracing the so called dialogue and truth telling. We would like to think that the new substitution would ensure that there is acknowledgement or that the Constitution provides for truth telling and support for the rehabilitation of victims and would ensure a commitment to offer the new tools for the implementation of such and that the society would have sustainable peace. Failure to do that would seem like there is lack of will power on our part to acknowledge that there are violations against humanity that took place and that measures should be taken for the restoration of peace. We cannot pretend that it is not there, that there is an elephant in the middle of the room but we have to acknowledge it. Ignoring it would not take it away but its presence would rather be confronted and dealt with. With those submissions, I rest my case Hon. Chair.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I also want to buttress what I consider to be a very useful amendment, particularly the one that is being proposed by Hon. Gonese. This amendment enriches the Bill and also gives the Bill a context. I support this amendment in the context of the preamble that is there. As you are aware, a preamble is supposed to give direction in terms of the spirit, the tenor, the tone and the composition of a particular piece of legislation. In this context, if you look at the one that is there, it does so but in part. So, the amendment that has been suggested would actually give a conclusive indication of what the Bill is all about, its context, the confessions that are supposed to be made, the admissions that are necessary and indeed the commission that we are so undertaking. So, it is very important from that perspective that we adopt the amendment that has been put forward by Hon. Gonese. More importantly, we also need to ensure that we put the purposive and teleological perspective of the Bill. In terms of drafting, that would also enrich our Bill in terms of the context, content and direction. It would also give sign posts to where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going as a people. This is an amendment that is not offensive to the spirit of the Bill, to the intentions of the policy makers and indeed as law makers, we feel that this is a very profitable amendment. I would want to move that we adopt this amendment Hon.
Chair. Thank you very much.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL
HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think to do service to the minds of other people, it is important that they express their feelings then we digest and next time we talk about it. We need to deal with these things effectively and I also want to apply my brains here. You have put your brains here, so let me digest then we come and talk about it.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Vice President, are we deferring this amendment? Is it only the preamble that has been suggested by Hon. Gonese?
HON. MPHOKO: The whole thing.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Chairman Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn and ask the Chair to report progress and seek leave to sit again.
Motion put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 28th June, 2017.
HON. ADV. CHIMISA: On a point of order Madam Chair..
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: My point of order is on a matter of privilege but I would want to raise it in the presence of the Hon. Vice President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, who is also the Leader of
Government Business Cde. E. D. Mnangagwa, in his presence also is the
Vice President, Hon. Mphoko. My point of privilege is from Standing Order No. 68 (d). You are aware that we were not supposed to sit this week. We only had to come because there was an important business,
Hon. Vice President, which business was for us to - I am sure, pass the Constitutional Amendment Bill. It would appear that we have come to sit and we are not very clear in terms of our numbers that are required to sufficiently meet the two thirds threshold, yet it has a massive effect on the tax payers’ money. This was not in terms of our sitting calendar, the sitting dates. This was not supposed to be a sitting of Parliament, we are supposed to be in our constituencies – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members from my right. Can Hon. Chamisa be heard in silence – [HON. MATANGIRA:
Where did you get that information?] -
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much. Hon. Matangira
was requesting where I got the information, that is the difference between leadership and being a follower – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So, we are in the leadership of Parliament, we are aware of the sitting dates and we define the business of Parliament and it is very important for him to appreciate that when we say information from a position of authority; we are not speculating and we must be able to listen before he starts questioning. The Vice President is aware of what I am talking about because at this level, we understand what we are talking about – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Hon. Speaker, my request to the Vice President was just to say in future, this is an untenable and indefensible situation and it is our wish to optimise on the little and meagre resources we have. The country is under difficult circumstances; we do not want to bring the whole Parliament because there is an expense to it. We always want to make sure that we are precise in whatever we do. We save on the little and meagre resources we have. So, this is a plea in terms of our privileges that when we sit, let us sit with the understanding that we have done sufficient work to make sure that whatever we are doing is also speaking to the meagre and minute resources we have as a country. That is the point I wanted to make and I wanted the Hon. Vice President to also appreciate that point. I am sure he does appreciate that point because I know he is also concerned about the circumstance of resources. I know that there are some who are not in this House on account of various reasons. So, let it be placed on record that this is an undesirable situation. The desirable situation is for us to come and do the business of Parliament to the benefit of our citizens. I want to thank you very much – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you very much Madam Chair. I realise that the Hon. Member, Vice President of the MDC – T and a Pastor - his concerns about time consuming debates – [HON. CHAMISA: Inaudible
interjection.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Chamisa, let the Hon.
Vice President respond.
HON. E. MNANGAGWA: When the Hon. Member was making
his contribution on a point of privilege, I was not agreeing with him but because of dignity and discipline, I listened. I believe that at his level, he should do the same. I was saying that I allowed debate for everybody to exhaust themselves in spite of the repetitions, tedious repetitions which are happening. I was patient enough to take that in my stride. Today we came here to do two clauses which have been debated. I am happy that we have gone through those debates. Today, for some reason, the Hon. Members were able to deal with the two clauses of the Bill in reasonable time and I am thankful for that. So, on Thursday again, I hope they will do the same so that we will quickly go through the work on Thursday; that is the issue at hand. The question that he says we must not do it – there is a lot of work, there are a lot of motions and so on. In relation to debate relating to the constitutional amendment, the debate is over to those who are not aware. What is remaining is the voting. I thank you Madam Chair.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that
Orders of the Day, Nos 4 to 8, be stood over until Order of the Day, No.
9 and the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
THIRD REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON
THE 2014 AND 2015 APPROPRIATION AND FUNDS ACCOUNTS
FOR THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL
DEVELOPMENT
HON. MPARIWA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House adopts the Third report of the Public Accounts Committee on the 2014 and 2015 Appropriation and Funds Account for the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
HON. CROSS: I second.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The Public Accounts Committee examined the Ministry of
Transport and Infrastructural Development on the findings of the
Auditor General on the Appropriation accounts for years ended December 31, 2014 and 2015 and the accounts of the four Funds administered by the Ministry, namely the Department of Roads Fund,
2013and 2014; New Limpopo Bridge Fund, 2014; New Vehicle Number
Plate Revolving Fund, 2013 and 2014 and the Traffic and Legislation Fund, 2012- 2014.
The Ministry is lagging behind in terms of reporting on Funds.
This is a violation of the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) [Chapter 22:19]. Section 35 (4) of the PFMA requires the Ministry to prepare and submit financial statements for Funds within three months after the end of a financial year, which is a month after the deadline for submission of appropriation accounts. The Auditor General is expected to report on Funds by the same time she reports on Appropriation accounts which is June 30 of each year. It is of great concern that the Ministry reported on Funds well out of time and this has been the general trend for most Funds. This points to a culture of nonaccountability and a general lack of specific sanctions for failure to meet statutory deadlines on the submission of financial statements for audit. The Committee is also concerned that the then Accounting Officer for the Ministry, Mr Munodawafa did not take audit seriously as audit recommendations made in the 2014 Annual Audit Report were not implemented, hence are subject of discussion in this Report.
2.0 OBJECTIVES OF THE ENQUIRY
Section 299 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment No. 20 of 2013, states as follows:
(1) Parliament must monitor and oversee expenditure by the
State and all Commissions and institutions and agencies of
Government at every level, including statutory bodies, Government controlled entities, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities, in order to ensure that-
- all revenue is accounted for;
- all expenditure has been properly incurred; and
- Any limits and conditions on appropriations have been observed.
Section 309 (2) (a) of the Constitution provides for the functions of the Auditor General as follows:
“to audit the accounts, financial systems and financial management of all departments, institutions and agencies of Government, all provincial and metropolitan councils and all local authorities”.
National Assembly Standing Order No. 16 mandates the Public
Accounts Committee to examine the sums granted by Parliament to meet public expenditure and such other accounts laid before the National Assembly.
It is therefore, the duty of the Public Accounts Committee to report whether such public funds have been managed and expended as authorised by Parliament. In this context, the Committee examined the audited Appropriation and Funds Accounts for the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure Development as reported by the Auditor General in her Annual Report for the financial years ended December 31, 2014 and 2015 respectively.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee held two oral evidence sessions with Mr
Munodawafa, the then Permanent Secretary and Accounting Officer for Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, and other senior officials within the Ministry. The Committee requested written evidence which was then analysed and further formed the basis of the Report.
4.0 FINDINGS AND OBSERVATIONS BY THE
COMMITTEE
4.1 APPROPRIATION ACCOUNTS FOR THE MINISTRY
OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT
FOR THE YEAR ENDED DECEMBER 31, 2014
4.1.1 Unvouched and Misallocation of Expenditure, 2014
Section 81 (2) (b) (iii) of the PFMA requires all payments for public monies to be supported by sufficient vouchers of proof of payment. The Ministry, in violation of this provision, failed to avail for audit examination payment vouchers amounting to $608 478 for the Harare – Mutare road project. The Audit therefore could not verify the nature of expenditure incurred under the project.
Furthermore, Treasury Instruction 0950 requires all expenditure on voted funds to be classified under appropriate sub-heads and items as shown in the Estimates of Expenditure. During the period under review, Treasury released $400 378 for the Harare – Mutare project but funds were used to settle outstanding invoices for other projects which had no allocation under the 2014 Budget. These were Harare – Masvingo $199
785 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Hon. Speaker, can I be heard in silence because I am talking here and I am mentioning names of some constituencies where Members of Parliament may have interest because they are really responsible for those communities. I think understanding and hearing what I am saying here, will give the benefit of a report back to their constituencies.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May the Hon. Member be
heard in silence! You are protected.
HON. MPARIWA: Shamva – Bindura $58 965, Harare – Gweru
$54 473, Makuti reseal unit $45 027 and Manyame Bridge $41 790. These expenditures were then reported under Harare – Mutare project thereby overstating the expenditure on the project whilst understating expenditure on various other projects.
There is no doubt that such an environment is conducive for fraudulent activities since payments cannot be verified in the absence of supporting documentation and value of projects may be distorted through misstating of expenditures. Without following proper budgetary processes, State funds may be directed at unintended purposes resulting in missing national priorities.
The Permanent Secretary conceded to the audit observations. He indicated that supporting documentation for the unvouched expenditure could not be availed during the audit period as they were in the provinces. He blamed the manual recoding system obtaining in the provinces. The Ministry indicated that some vouchers were collected from the provinces and the amount had been reduced to $400 000. The Permanent Secretary made a commitment that he would avail the outstanding documentation during the entrance meetings of the 2016 audits. In relation to funds diverted from the Harare - Mutare road project, he pointed out that the transfer of funds to other projects was in response to litigations instigated by the contractors. He acknowledged the need to seek Treasury concurrence in future.
The Committee noted with concern the reluctance by the
Permanent Secretary to follow proper procedures by unilaterally moving funds from one project to another without securing Treasury approval.
4.1.1.1 The Committee recommends that the Civil Service Commission, the appointing authority, should by 31stAugust, 2017, issue a stern warning against Mr Munodawafa, the then Permanent Secretary for the Ministry, for failing to seek Treasury approval for moving funds on projects approved by Parliament and disguising expenditure under different projects.
4.1.1.2 The Ministry should avail vouchers for the outstanding amount of $400 000 by 31stAugust, 2017.
4.1.2 Unreconciled figures for the Receipts and Disbursement
Return and the PFMS figure, 2014
The Receipts and Disbursement return showed an amount of $20 091 146 and the PFMS showed a figure of $21 284 987 resulting in a variance of $1 193 840. The Ministry did not carry out reconciliations to establish the source and composition of the variance. The then Permanent Secretary indicated that reconciliations were lagging behind resulting in the variance. He advised the Committee that the reconciliations for 2014 were completed and the figures were reconciled.
With such weak internal controls relating to revenue management, there is a risk of losing State revenue as some receipts could not be accounted for. The Committee noted with concern the lack of supervision by Management in the Ministry in respect of reconciliations that must be carried out on a monthly basis. Reconciliations submitted had no supporting documentation.
4.1.2.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should submit to Parliament the reconciliations with the supporting documentation by 1stAugust, 2017.
4.1.3 Understated Expenditure
The Audit observed that Treasury made direct payments to service providers amounting to $2 762 669 on behalf of the Ministry while the Appropriation Account submitted by the Ministry reflected an amount of $2 590 004 for direct payment resulting in a variance of $172 695.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the Ministry had investigated and found out that the direct payments made by Treasury as per Treasury records were correct and the payments were made to ZINWA. The matter has therefore been addressed to the
Committee’s satisfaction.
4.1.4 Suspected Fraud
An Internal Audit Report revealed that between January 2012 and May 2014, the Ministry suffered a loss of $181 950 through fraudulent activities perpetrated by an Accounts Clerk at the Victoria Falls station. The Accounts Clerk resigned when the fraud was uncovered to avoid prosecution. At the time of concluding the audit, no action had been taken by the Ministry whereas Treasury Instruction 0435 requires that a police report be made immediately after preliminary investigation into such kind of loss pointing to criminal action.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the fraud had not been detected until after the audit. The Ministry suspected that there was connivance between the Vehicle Inspection Department (VID) official and a bank employee. It was a question of under-banking which was concealed by the two individuals involved which went on for some time. The Permanent Secretary also indicated that the official absconded from work after the matter was reported to the Police. He went further to state that the Ministry had instructed Pension Office to stop disbursement of terminal benefits accruing to the former employee as part of efforts to recover the defrauded funds. However, terminal benefits were far too little considering the amount in question.
To strengthen internal controls, the Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the Civil Service Commission had appointed two accountants to perform receipting duties and prevent such function from being performed by Vehicle Inspection Department inspectors as was the practice.
The Committee noted with concern that no proper care was being taken by the Ministry to safeguard public funds. Where under qualified personnel are entrusted with public funds, the Committee expects the Ministry to ensure constant supervision. The fact that the Ministry admitted that it took long for it to detect the fraud, points to lack of supervision in the Ministry. There is a danger that Government might be losing a lot of funds through such fraudulent activities.
4.1.4.1 The Committee recommends that since the terminal benefits are not adequate to cover the stolen funds, the Accounting Officer should by 31stJuly, 2017report the matter to the Police to ensure that the culprit is brought to book.
4.1.5 Absence of supporting documentation for direct payments to telephone and cellular phone service providers
The Auditor General observed that Treasury made direct payments amounting to $240 330 to telephone and cellular phone service providers. The Ministry did not make any effort to obtain confirmation of amounts owed and receipts of payments made from service providers as required by regulations. During oral evidence, the Ministry availed receipts from Telone and Netone but the amounts were more than the payments made.
4.1.5.1 The Committee recommends that, going forward, the Ministry should consistently check direct payments made by Treasury to service providers and ensure that they maintain up to date records on the management of public funds.
4.1.6 Weak controls in telephone usage by officers
The Audit observed that the Ministry’s telephones at the Head Office were open to Members of staff via the switchboard but there are no controls in place to monitor and limit time spend on calls. The Ministry incurred a bill amounting to $1 919 774 which has been outstanding since 2012. The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that they have since installed a PABX system which makes it possible to monitor and control usage. Since its installation, he indicated that usage has gone down and they are currently paying an average of $649 per month. The Committee commends the Ministry for taking corrective action.
4.1.7 Failure to submit Annual Departmental Asset Certificate
In violation of Treasury Instruction of 2004, the Ministry did not submit for audit examination an Annual Departmental Asset Certificate which shows whether all assets were properly accounted for. Some provinces submitted incomplete certificates and the Head Office register was not up to date. The Permanent Secretary indicated that most officials in his Ministry were not conversant with requirements for maintenance of assets registers. They have put in place teams that go around twice a year to all depots for purposes of updating assets registers. The Permanent Secretary advised the Committee that the Master Assets Register was now up to date. However, the Ministry up to the time of concluding this Report had not submitted the Annual
Departmental Asset Certificate.
4.1.7.1The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, submit the Annual Departmental Asset Certificate to the Auditor General.
4.1.8 Unpaid invoices for Department of Roads
The Audit observed that the Ministry had unpaid invoices amounting to $7 562 005 (2012: $8 331 008) for services rendered. There was no budget to clear the outstanding debts. As observed in previous audits, there was no system in place to monitor timely payment of creditors exposing Government to potential litigation by creditors. The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the issue of outstanding debts was a big challenge for the Ministry and that it has been consistently in discussion with Treasury to disburse funds to settle outstanding obligations. In 2016, the Ministry was given US$2 million to settle the outstanding obligations and for 2017, there is a budget allocation of US$2 536 000. Due to tight fiscal space, the Ministry indicated that the Treasury had in situations where the Ministry was facing litigation, requested ZINARA to meet the Ministry’s obligations.
The Committee noted with concern that the budget allocations for the Department of Roads are not taking into account the long outstanding debts going as far back as 2012. There is a risk that the Ministry would face litigation and Government would lose out more. It is also worrisome to the Committee that the Ministry continue to incur additional debts regardless of its indebtedness which is worsening the situation. There are therefore poor budgetary controls within the Ministry.
Though the Ministry indicated that payments were made on the first come first served principle, there were situations where those who were contracted late were being paid ahead of those who came in earlier. The Ministry said in such cases, there were threats of litigations. In the absence of a transparent system of paying creditors, this could be a source of corrupt practices.
4.1.8.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31stAugust 2017, engage Treasury on the possibility of taking over the long outstanding debts by the Ministry. Going forward, the Ministry should operate within the approved budget.
4.1.8.2 The Ministry should by 30th September 2017 put in place a transparent system of paying its creditors.
4.2 Appropriation accounts for the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development for the year ended December 31, 2015.
4.2.1 Undisclosed Ministry Expenditure met by Statutory
Funds
The Ministry did not disclose payments that were made on its behalf by Statutory Funds to directly settle its obligations for goods and services during 2015. Over the years, the Auditor-General noted that some expenditure for the Ministry’s Head Office were charged to New Number Plate Revolving Fund and Traffic and Legislation Fund without providing a detailed disclosure of assistance received.
The Permanent Secretary, in his response to the audit observation, argued that his Ministry indeed disclosed but probably not in the format acceptable to the auditors. He also defended the intermingling of funds from the Appropriation account and Statutory Funds on the premise that they were both administered by the same officials. The Permanent Secretary admitted that he was knowingly violating the Constitutions of the Funds in question under the pretext that he had started discussion with Treasury on the possibility of amending the constitutions to allow access by other senior officials in the Ministry. He went on to blame the auditors for reporting 2013 issues in 2016 which is well out of time.
The Committee noted with concern the total disregard of regulations and procedures by the Permanent Secretary and apparent lack of remorse for his conduct. The Committee’s understanding was that Fund Constitutions provide direction on the management of funds and they have a force of law. It is also the Committee’s understanding that monies under these funds should be accounted for separately from appropriated funds. Furthermore, it is the Committee’s understanding that the Auditor General at the beginning of each year gives to Accounting Officers the format in which specific returns for both appropriations and Funds should be prepared. The PFMA compels accounting officers to submit accounts for appropriation and funds accounts for prior year within 60 days and 90 days respectively in the beginning of a financial year. This effectively means reporting for both is more or less at the same time and surely reporting on 2013 issues in 2015 should not be blamed on the auditors but the Accounting Officer who delayed in submitting financial statements. Detailed disclosure of all the sources of expenditure is more-so in line with best practice.
It is of great concern that the then Permanent Secretary, with impunity, was violating regulations and went on to apportion blame on auditors for raising issues on accounts that he submitted well out of time. The Permanent Secretary has a duty to manage public funds within the ambit of the governing regulatory frameworks and be held accountable in the manner he has managed such public funds.
4.2.1.1 The Committee recommends that the Permanent Secretary should with immediate effect observe the Constitution of the Funds under his Ministry and ensure that expenditure from such Funds are as per the dictates of those Constitutions.
4.2.1.2 The Civil Service Commission, should by 30th September, reprimand the Accounting Officer for wilful violations of Funds Constitutions.
4.2 Public Financial Asset not prepared according to the recommended format
In violation of the PFMA, the Audit observed that the return for Public Financial Assets was not prepared according to the recommended format as it excluded columns such as balances as at January 1, 2015, expenditure for the year, adjustments and closing balances as at December, 31, 2015. Attempts by auditors to get confirmations form parastatals and other public entities under the Ministry did not help the situation as only three out of eight entities responded. As a result, the auditors could not establish whether the balance of $97 078 183 disclosed in the return represented the correct net amounts of loans and investments outstanding as at December 31, 2015. It is of concern to the Committee that failure to disclose all transactions for loans and investments does not promote transparency and accountability which is a requirement under the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
As portrayed by the Ministry in its earlier responses, they professed ignorance of a recommended format which the Auditor General indicated was issued to all Accounting Officers by her Office in the beginning of every year. The Ministry however indicated that it had since complied and submitted a return in the recommended format. A return for public financial assets in conformity with the recommended format was subsequently submitted as evidence and the matter has therefore been addressed to the Committee’s satisfaction.
4.2.3 Rolling out PFMS to Revenue Collection Stations
The Audit reported that out of 27 revenue collecting stations, 15 were not connected to SAP while users at five stations which had SAP running had no profiles and needed training. At six stations, SAP was down and the receipting was done manually – meaning that most of the transactions from outstations were processed at the Ministry’s Head Office. It was also observed that delays in submitting sub-collectors schedules by stations, posting of revenue information was lagging behind and there were variances between receipts in the PFMS and cash reflected in the bank account throughout the year. There is a risk of exposing public funds to fraud in such a highly manual environment.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the SAP project was driven by Treasury and as a result, the Ministry had no control in terms of getting all the revenue collection stations connected. He indicated that two stations, one at Eastlea and the other one at
Belvedere were connected. For stations still on the manual system, the Civil Service Commission had approved that the Ministry engage staff with accounting skills to ensure that procedures are adhered to.
The Committee was aware that there were plans by Treasury to roll out SAP to districts and it is the Committee’s expectation that this process is speeded up to enhance accountability in revenue collection.
4.3 Roads fund accounts for the years ended December 31,
2013 and 2014
4.3.1 Variances between disbursements made to the Fund by
ZINARA and amount reflected in financial statement in 2013 and
2014
The Audit observed that ZINARA made disbursements amounting to $11 800 882 for maintenance of roads in 2013 and the fund financial statements reflected $10 363 302 as the amount received from ZINARA resulting in a variance of $1 437 580. The Audit later confirmed that of this variance, $936 870 was in respect of direct payments made to contractors by ZINARA, leaving a balance of $500 710 unaccounted for. It was also noted that the Fund did not conduct monthly income reconciliations during 2013.
In 2014, the fund financial statements on the same reflected disbursements of $11 610 945 while the ZINARA schedule showed a figure of $9 409 285 giving a variance of $2 201 660. No reconciliation was done to establish the source and nature of the variance.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that variances in 2013 were due to direct payments made by ZINARA to service providers without the knowledge of the Ministry. The department then prepared its accounts based on disbursements amounting to $10 363 302 as reflected in its bank account. After the audit, an investigation was carried out and established that the variance of $1 437 580 was relating to direct payments. The Ministry advised the Committee that it had now reconciled the figures. However, the Committee noted that the schedule for direct payments that was submitted by the Ministry as evidence was not supported by vouchers or invoices being paid rendering the evidence incredible.
As for the $2 201 660 observed in 2014, the Ministry indicated that it was still carrying out reconciliations to establish the source.
The Committee noted with concern the challenge in the Ministry of maintaining up to date records. Reconciliations should be carried out on a monthly basis and any variances observed should be investigated at the material time. There is really a serious performance challenge and lack
of supervision in the Ministry. The Permanent Secretary indeed admitted before the Committee that there was a casual approach by his officers in dealing with these matters.
4.3.1.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31stAugust, 2017, submit invoices and vouchers supporting the $1 437 580 direct payments made by ZINARA in 2013.
4.3.1.2 The Ministry should as a matter of urgency finalise reconciliations for the 2014 ZINARA disbursements and submit credible evidence explaining the variations of $2 201 660 by 31st August 2017.
4.3.2 Irregular payment of bonuses to casual workers
In 2013, the Audit observed that for four years in succession, the Fund paid bonuses to casual workers violating Section C, part 3 of the contract signed between the Fund and the workers which stipulated that no bonuses should be paid. In addition, there was no authority from the Civil Service Commission to support payment of bonuses amounting to $97 630. This was a clear improper charge against public funds which may result in budget overrun.
The Permanent Secretary conceded that it was wrong for the Fund to pay bonuses to casual workers. He added that the Director in charge of the Fund thought that the Fund was autonomous and he could run it as he wishes. The Ministry stopped payment of bonuses after the matter was raised with auditors.
The Committee was perplexed to note that there was a circular from the CSC which clearly stipulates that casual workers were not entitled to bonus and the Director in charge of the Fund went on to pay such bonuses in disregard of the Circular. The Ministry took no action against the Director, yet this reflected on the performance of the Director.
4.3.2.1 The Committee recommends that the CSC should by 31stAugust 2017, issue a cautionary letter against the Director of the Fund for failing to observe policies and procedures in dealing with public funds.
4.3.3 Procurement of a binder material worth $320 000 without following Tender procedures in 2014
Statutory Instrument 161 of 2008 – Procurement (amended) Regulation Number 16 stipulates that purchases of at least $300 000 should be done through a formal tender. During 2014, the Audit observed that the Fund purchased a binder material called eco-roads soil stabilizer meant to strengthen dust roads at a cost of $320 000 from a private company without flouting formal tender.
The Permanent Secretary indicated that since the material was purchased for research purposes, the Department of Roads did not think that it was necessary to proceed by way of a formal tender. However, the Committee noted with concern that the Statutory Instruments had no such exclusions for procurement for purposes of research. The Permanent Secretary conceded that the action was wrong and he indeed apologised for a clear disregard of laid down policies and procedures.
4.4. NEW LIMPOPO BRIDGE FUND, 2014
The Fund was established to finance the maintenance of the old and the new Limpopo bridges and the roads linking the South African and the Zimbabwean border. ZINARA was appointed as a tolling agent of the Fund which collects around $1.6 million toll fees every month. The Fund received a qualified opinion in 2014 and the issues are highlighted below.
4.4.1 Fund Revenue understated by ZAR21 577 326
The Audit observed that the financial statement had an omission of
ZAR21 577 326 which was collected between November and December 2014. The Audit was therefore not satisfied that the $3 241 168 disclosed in the financial statement represented all the revenue that was collected by ZINARA on behalf of the Fund. In coming up with the revenue figure, the Fund relied on the bank statements and deposit slips supplied by ZINARA and did not keep copies of receipts and maintain monthly summaries of revenue collected. This could enable the Fund to carry out independent reconciliations against bank statements. Failure to account for all revenue collected may result in material misstatement of financial statements. Furthermore, revenue may be misappropriated if receipts and monthly returns are not submitted by ZINARA for verification.
The Permanent Secretary indicated that motorists travelling across the Limpopo bridge have the liberty to pay either in United State dollars or in Rands and yet they maintain a United States Dollar bank account. The bank was supposed to convert the Rands to United States Dollars which did not take place. He advised the Committee that there is now compliance in that regard.
In response to the absence of copies of receipts and monthly summary of revenue collected, the Permanent Secretary indicated that the computer system they inherited from the private player who was previously engaged on a BOT arrangement did not produce additional copies of the receipts. However, the Ministry had since instructed ZINARA to change the system to ensure that it generates additional copies of receipts in order to comply with audit requirements. The Audit also noted that monthly reconciliations between duplicate copies of receipts, bank deposit slips and bank statements were not being carried out to which the Permanent Secretary indicated that they were now being carried out.
4.4.1.1 Going forward, the Committee recommends that the Fund should keep copies of receipts and monthly summary of revenue collected and carry out monthly reconciliations to enable them to detect errors and omissions at the material time.
4.4.1.2 The Ministry should submit monthly bank reconciliations by 31st August 2017 as evidence that monthly reconciliations were now being carried out.
4.4.2 Absence of a Contract appointing ZINARA as a collection agent
The Audit observed that there was no contract entered into, between ZINARA and the New Limpopo Bridge Fund stating the terms and conditions under which ZINARA was appointed as a collection agent, save for a Minute written by the Accounting Officer advising
ZINARA to retain 20% of the toll fees collected. It also observed that
the Statutory Instrument 147 of 2013 which authorised ZINARA to collect toll fees on behalf of the Fund was silent on the retention of 20% of toll fees by ZINARA.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the decision for ZINARA to become the collection agent was hurriedly taken and was unanticipated. He indicated that a contract was now in place. Regarding the 20% retention fee, he indicated that it was in fact 15% and the two governments had agreed on the percentage.
4.4.3 Absence of supporting documents for payments amounting to $1 000 000.00 for road works and salaries for contract workers amounting to $32 948
Treasury Instruction 1216 requires that a payment voucher should be supported by adequate documentation. The Audit observed that no expenditure returns were submitted to support payments amounting to $1 000 000.00 allegedly spent on road works and salaries for contract workers amounting to $32 948 were also not supported by pay sheets.
The Permanent Secretary indicated that the supporting documents in both instances were in the provinces and what was needed was to get the copies from provinces and avail them to auditors. He pointed out that supporting documents for the $1 million were indeed availed to the auditors before the finalisation of the audit. Pay sheets supporting the salaries for casual workers together with the alleged missing vouchers were submitted to the Committee and the matter has been addressed to the Committee’s satisfaction.
4.4.4 Absence of supporting documentation for the source of
Accumulated Fund figure of $722 562
The Audit could not validate the source of the Accumulated figure of $722 562 reflected in the Income and Expenditure as it was extracted from a bank statement and was not supported by source documents. The Audit therefore, could not place reliance on the Accumulated Fund balance of $2 654 009 reflected in the balance sheet.
The Permanent Secretary pointed out that $722 562 relates to the first one and a half months of operation after they took over from the private player and at that stage, they had no guidelines as to how they were supposed to operate and then they operated in the manner that was not in compliance with the expectations of the auditors.
The Committee was concerned that the Ministry has been extracting figures from the bank statements or receipts instead of using ledgers to prepare financial statements. This is contrary to good accounting practice and reflects weak accounting control and poor record keeping.
4.4.4.1 Going forward, the Committee recommends that the Ministry should maintain proper accounting records and ensure that accurate and complete information is kept.
4.5 New vehicle security registration number plate revolving fund 2013 and 2014
The Fund was established to import blank registration plates of the specifications stipulated in the vehicle registration and licensing regulations and incidental materials, for production of vehicle registration number plates and sell to vehicle owners. The Fund in both years received adverse opinions which are an indication that there were material misstatements which render financial statements unreliable. This state of affairs is of great concern to the Committee as those entrusted with public funds should exercise due diligence and care and instil public confidence. Below are the issues which gave rise to adverse opinion.
4.5.1 Failure to maintain ledger accounts for sale of Number plates, 2013
The Audit observed that the Fund did not maintain individual ledger accounts for sales realised by 32 agencies while some agencies did not submit monthly sales returns or receipts together with bank deposit slips to facilitate reconciliation of the sales figure. There were indications from monthly sales returns received from agencies that some number plates were cancelled. However, a schedule of the returns inwards for cancelled number plates was not availed for audit verification. As a result, the sales figure of $16 275 058 disclosed in the financial statements could not be validated. The situation did not improve in 2014 where the sales figure was $17 473 239.
Failure to carry out monthly reconciliations can result in errors going through the system undetected and such an environment is also conducive for fraudulent transactions.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the 2013 and 2014 figures had since been reconciled and were included in the recasted financial statements which were submitted to the Auditor
General’s office. To curb future recurrences, the Ministry now make use of its internal audit to carry out periodic audits which cover receipting and banking against sales just to ensure that if there are any discrepancies, they will be immediately attended to. The Ministry also has made it mandatory for all agents to submit sales returns together with the duplicates receipts and the deposits slips on a monthly basis and in the event an agent failed to comply with the directive, officials are dispatched to go and collect the documents. The Committee was satisfied with the measures taken to address the observation.
4.5.2 Absence of detailed stock takes procedures, 2013
The Audit observed that the Fund did not have detailed stock take procedures to provide guidance to officers. The Fund had a checklist that was not comprehensive enough to highlight condition, quantity and value of inventory on hand. No consolidated report was produced on the outcome of the stock take exercise conducted at year end. As a result, auditors could not confirm whether, the inventory disclosed in the financial statement with a value of $3 273 246 was accurate.In the absence of comprehensive stock take procedures, there is a risk that values of closing inventory may be manipulated.
The Permanent Secretary conceded that the system that was initially in place did not meet the Audit expectations. The Ministry had changed the system, the new system involved both internal and external auditors in the stock. The Committee was satisfied with the measures that were taken in addressing the observation. The Committee also questioned the basis of the price of number plates, considering that the Ministry had relied on one sole supplier over a period of more than 19 years. The Fund was also in a position to lend surplus funds to other entities and the Committee was wondering whether it was now a profit making venture or whether the percentage being retained should be reviewed. The Permanent Secretary indicated that the Ministry was seized with the matter within the context of ease of doing business. He confirmed that there was scope for reducing the price of number plates.
4.5.3 Suspense Account, 2013
There was a balance of $3 560 631 (2014:$3 560 631) disclosed in the financial statements and it had been outstanding since 2011. No evidence was shown to the auditors that the Fund had taken measures to either investigate or clear the suspense account. Existence of a suspense account implies that the financial statements are not reliable.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the balance relates to stocks that were procured prior to the introduction of the multicurrency regime and there was no guidance from Treasury regarding the conversion rate. Thus the balance in the suspense account therefore relate to the value that was placed on closing stock for raw materials and finished products. He however indicated that his Ministry got some guidance and recommendations from the Auditor General on how to recast the figure. There was therefore scope to recast the figures going back to 2009, based on the value which has been placed on those number plates.
4.5.3.1 The Committee recommends that the Fund should clear the suspense account by 30thSeptember 2017 based on the formula given by the Auditor General.
4.5.4 Long Term Advances to Air Zimbabwe, 2013
Audit observed that for the second year running, the Fund made some payments to Air Zimbabwe service providers without obtaining prior Treasury authority. Payments were then treated as long term loans, although no interest is being charged, contrary to the provisions of the
Fund’s Constitution. The accumulated payments as at December 31, 2013 amounted to $22 909 504 (2012:19 875 976). The loan agreements had not been signed by Air Zimbabwe and no repayments had been received. During 2014 the Fund further advanced to Air Zimbabwe $7 578 660 as a loan to repay its operation expenses. The Audit further noted that there were no explanatory notes submitted with accounts on the long outstanding loans to Air Zimbabwe, which is required by best practice.
There is a risk that the Fund may fail to achieve its objectives if its revenue is diverted to other entities which is in violation of the Constitution of the Fund. The Committee further queried whether retention funds are justified if the Fund had such excess funds to loan out to other entities. In the absence of explanatory notes on items, the integrity of the financial statements may be compromised.
The Permanent Secretary admitted that the Ministry erred in diverting Fund monies to Air Zimbabwe without Treasury approval and offered an apology for its action. He confirmed that loan documents for all the amounts observed were in place. The Committee questioned the possibility of Air Zimbabwe paying back the loans, considering its current dire state.
4.5.4.1The Committee recommends that the Ministry approach the Treasury and work out the modalities for takeover of the debt for Air Zimbabwe by Treasury by 30 September, 2017. Going forward the Ministry should desist from diverting Fund revenue without Treasury approval.
4.5.4.2 The Treasury should assess and advise by 31st
December, 2017 whether there is need for the Ministry to still retain the current percentage of the Fund revenue in view of the amounts, hovering around $23 million that have been extended to Air Zimbabwe though over a period of time.
4.5.5 Payment vouchers amounting to $555 572 not supported by invoices, 2013
The Audit observed that the Fund paid a total amount of US$555 572, that had no supporting invoices. The figure relates to cash withdrawals amounting to $88 593 that were made without the Chief
Accountant’s approval and supporting payment vouchers; payment of wages and salaries totalling $174 517again without supporting documents and a further payment of $292 462 made on behalf of the Ministry Head Office still without supporting documents. Thus the auditors could not ascertain whether the payments were a proper charge against the Fund.
The Permanent Secretary defended the payment made on behalf of the Ministry on the basis that the Fund had no dedicated staff to run the Ministry and for him there was nothing wrong in utilising the Fund for administrative purposes. On the basis of the arguments advanced by the Ministry, the Fund was being used to augment resources appropriated to the Ministry, which is not the intention in terms of its Constitution. Regarding the missing vouchers, the Permanent Secretary indicated that they were available.
4.5.5.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should submit to Parliament all the supporting documentation relating to the $555 572 by 31st August 2017.
4.5.5.2 Treasury must review and advise by 31st December,
2017 on the need for the Ministry to continue to retain funds under the Fund, considering that it is now being used to fund expenditure ordinarily funded by appropriated funds.
4.5.6 Acquisition of Assets outside the approved budget, 2013
The Audit observed that the Fund purchased assets worth $302 960 which were not budgeted for. The assets were shredders, printers, scales and filing cabinets. However, seven scales valued at $9 429, have been lying idle ever since they were purchased. This resulted in wasteful expenditure.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the Ministry realised the need for filing cabinets for safe keeping of used receipt books by CVR during the course of the year.In relation to scales that were lying idle, he indicated that use of the scales was postponed pending a tender process for disposal of old number plates.
The Committee was concerned that the Ministry’s budget formulation was poor, considering they should have anticipated the need for the equipment during the budget formulation. There is also poor planning because the equipment was just purchased without clear objectives and direction as to what they really wanted to achieve. On one hand they purchased equipment with a view to dispose of old number plates by way of shredding. Later on they realised that there was some aluminium in the old number plates and they realised the opportunity to dispose them through sale. The Ministry really needed to be reminded that they are dealing with public funds and there is need to ensure there is efficiency, economy and effectiveness in the use of public resources.
4.5.6.1 The Committee recommends that the Civil Service Commission should revisit the employment contract of the officials in the Ministry running the Fund and advice on their continued suitability by 31st December, 2017 in view of the glaring poor performance.
4.5.6.2 Treasury should by December, 2017, review the framework of the Fund, in view of the observations noted.
4.5.7 Purchased Vehicles under the Fund converted to personal issue vehicles to directors, 2013
The Audit observed that the Fund sought and was granted authority to purchase three vehicles valued at $128 179. However, the vehicles were later issued as personal vehicles to the Directors at the Ministry’s Head Office and $33 894 was spent on putting on extras, such as radios, sport lights and bull bars. Subsequently, the Ministry sought authority from Public Service Commission to convert the vehicles to personal issue vehicles and such authority had not been granted at the time of the audit.
The Permanent Secretary indicated that the vehicles were meant to be pool vehicles for CVR. However, there were three directors that had no personal issue vehicles, hence they were issued to directors. He claimed that the Ministry got Treasury and PSC approval to allocate the vehicles to the Directors. The Committee noted with concern that there is a clear violation of the Constitution of the Fund and there seems to be no consequences for such violations. The Accounting Officer actually defended use of the Fund to meet expenditure ordinarily funded through appropriated funds. In fact the Fund has proved to be an additional budgetary source for the Ministry.
4.5.7.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, submit to Parliament approvals from
Treasury and the CSC for its decision in issuing Fund vehicles to Directors in the Ministry.
4.5.7.2 Treasury should, by 30th September 2017, submit to
Parliament a justification for continued retention of funds by the Ministry under this Fund, in view of these violations and other uses which the Funds are being put to.
4.5.8 Inadmissible Accounting Records, 2014
The Audit observed that the Fund used excel spreadsheet to maintain its records instead of a reliable accounting package. There was no consistency in the recording of manual and excel ledgers, resulting in eight manual ledger records reflecting a total of $2 457 581, which was not posted to excel ledger accounts, while sixteen excel ledger accounts had expenditure amounting to $2 092 206, which was not posted to the manual ledger. The fourteen ledger accounts which were maintained in both manual and excel ledger accounts, separately, had variances amounting to $1 930 756. There is a risk that inconsistencies in recording financial transactions may result in materially misstated financial statements and failure to reconcile manual and excel records could result in failure to detect errors and fraud.
The Permanent Secretary indicated that they have adopted a pastel accounting version 14. He also indicated that the figures were reconciled.
The Committee was concerned with the extent of poor record keeping that was prevalent in the Ministry and the inaction by the Accounting Officer as these issues are reported year after year.
4.5.9 Trade Receivables that could not be ascertained
The Audit could not ascertain the existence, accuracy and completeness of trade receivables amounting to $1 201 012 as the Fund did not maintain detailed individual debtor records. There were no debtor reconciliations carried on throughout the year. One agent of the fund understated sales for the month July, 2014 by $46 493 thereby under remitting revenue by the same amount.
The Ministry indicated that individual debtor records were now being maintained and reconciliations were being carried out. The
Committee was however, concerned about the weak controls in the Ministry which can possibly lead to fraud if no action is taken to address the issues.
4.5.9.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, submit to Parliament evidence of reconciliations and individual debtor records being maintained.
4.5.10 Absence of a Management Committee to administer the
Fund
The New Number Plate Revolving Fund Constitution Section 3 (a) states that the Fund shall be administered by a Management Committee appointed by The Accounting Officer who shall be responsible for the day-to-day running of the Fund. The Fund has been operating without a
Management Committee since its inception. In the absence of the Committee, decisions taken by Management may not be independent as has been demonstrated in this Report.
In his response to the observation, the Permanent Secretary regretted that the requirement of setting up a Management Committee was not fulfilled. He has made an attempt to set up one such Committee but he indicated that the Committee was not operational as the Chairman was pursing part time studies.
The Committee noted with concern that there was a deliberate effort by the Permanent Secretary to downplay the need of a vibrant Management Committee to administer the Fund. The challenges besetting the Fund are just numerous to guarantee and instil public confidence that there is proper safeguard and management of public resources under this Fund. The Fund is rather a cash cow for the
Ministry which is not the intent and purpose for which it was set.
4.5.10.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 30th September 2017, put in place a viable Management Committee to administer the Fund and demonstrate ample evidence that the Committee is now in charge of the affairs of the Fund.
4.6 TRAFFIC AND LEGISLATION FUND 2012- 2014
The accounts for the Fund for 2012 to 2014 received an adverse opinion which is a clear indication that this is another Fund under the
Ministry that is badly administered. Below are issues raised in the audit?
4.6.1 Computerised Accounting System partially utilised
The Audit observed that the Fund purchased computerised accounting software called pastel in 2011 to ensure that reliable financial statements were produced and that the organisation’s information was protected. However, the Fund did not have an approved Information Technology security policy. The Chief Accountant acted as the system administrator, thus exposing the financial information to manipulation, as there was no segregation of duties. While the computerised accounting system was introduced in 2011, it was not being fully utilised as most of the financial information was not uploaded on the system.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the Ministry until recently had no IT skills at the appropriate levels. Their target is to have an IT policy by end of 2017. Regarding the full functionality of the system, he informed the Committee that they are currently in discussion with the service provider to enable it to deal with depreciation and revenue processes which were said to be the outstanding functions. He pointed out that the Chief Accountant was the supervisor as opposed to the Administrator of the software. He went further to state that they did not feel that there was any compromise by having the accountant there.
The Committee noted with concern that the Permanent Secretary has not been consistent in his responses. To the auditors he indicated that the IT officers did not have the capacity to administer the software and as a result, the Chief Accountant was acting as the Administrator. During oral evidence session, he then denied that the Chief Accountant was an Administrator. He blamed his junior staff for the responses given to the auditors. The Committee was very much concerned with the conduct of the Accounting Officer in dealing with audit matters. He displayed total disregard of the audit processes and as a result, the Committee could not place reliance on the evidence he gave.
4.6.1.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, submit to Parliament reliable evidence regarding the level of utilisation of the computerised accounting system and such evidence to include the officers administering the system.
4.6.1.2 The Committee recommended that the Civil Service Commission should assess the conduct of the Permanent Secretary in relation to audits and take appropriate action by 31st December 2017.
4.6.2 Suspense Account
Audit observed that the Fund’s balance sheet had a suspense figure of $2 548 991 and auditors could not verify the source of this figure as supporting ledger accounts were not being maintained. It was established that in 2009 the accumulated figure included an amount of $2 499 758, whose origin could not be established. The suspense figure has been carried on over the years without being investigated. Continued failure by the Fund to investigate the source of the balance affects the integrity of the financial statements and errors may occur undetected.
The Ministry attributed the figure to the period prior to the dollarization and indicated that they have sought guidance from the Auditor General in addressing the observation. However, the Ministry had simply removed the figure from the financial statement without supporting documentation showing how it has been removed from the financial statements.
4.6.2.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should fully investigate the suspense account and clear the balance by 30th September, 2017.
4.6.3 Payment for Construction works without supporting documentation
The Audit could not establish whether payment for construction works amounting to $182 301 which included $43 146 incurred in 2013 were a proper charge to public funds. The payments were for hiring of equipment. There were no payment vouchers compiled, neither were there invoices, competitive quotations and certificates of completion availed to auditors.
Auditors also reported that they failed to establish whether expenditure valued at $929 851 disclosed in the 2012 financial statements represented a fair value of projects, that were completed or under construction, in the absence of work progress certificates. The projects undertaken at various Vehicle Inspection Depots included construction of some hill starts and office blocks.
The Ministry indicated that they have now centralised all payments done under the Fund. The Accounting Officer approves all payments to eliminate loopholes. He pointed out that construction of hill starts was under the purview of the Provincial Road Engineer and there were no certificates produced for the work. Going forward, all construction work has to be certified by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
The Committee was concerned about payments being made without supporting documents as the issue has been reported in all the four Fund Accounts.
4.6.4 Absence of supporting documentation for revenue received
The Audit could not place reliance on the revenue figure of $5 346 014 (2013: $5 158 177) disclosed in the financial statements, as the cash book was updated using entries from the bank statements, instead of using amounts from actual receipts together with related sub-collectors schedules from all depots. As a result, there were un reconciled differences of $233 858 (2012: $251 085) between, figures shown in the financial statements and those in the ledger accounts.
The Ministry indicated that receipts are now being received on a weekly basis from the various collecting centres and reconciliations are carried out at the end of every week. It was also indicated that the difference of $233 858 had since been cleared. The Committee expressed concern that the Accounting Officer waits for audits to point out issues and the review does not seem to have a mechanism to review its systems.
4.6.4.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, avail supporting evidence to Parliament of weekly reconciliation being carried out and the differences cleared.
4.6.5 Unrecovered Travel and Subsistence Advances
The Audit noted that Travelling and Substance Advances issued to staff members were not being acquitted within the stipulated period of 30 days as required by Treasury Instruction 1505. This resulted in an increase in 2014 of outstanding advances by 94% to $352 081from $181 357 in 2013. The Fund did not put in place mechanisms to recover outstanding advances.
The Permanent Secretary admitted that his officials were not doing their work as expected, resulting in one of the officials being discharged from the service for this and other misdemeanours. He advised the
Committee that the figure has gone down to $93 960.
4.6.5.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 30th September 2017, submit to Parliament evidence of recoveries made and a schedule showing officers who are yet to acquit and action being taken to recover the amounts.
4.6.6 Procurement of fuel on behalf of the Ministry
Audit observed that the Fund purchased fuel coupons with a value of $707 921 in 2014 and $953 757 in 2013. The fuel coupons were issued to VID depots and to the parent Ministry. It was observed that part of the fuel expenditure amounting to $227 840 was paid without compiling payment vouchers. It was also observed that the Fund and Ministry accounting systems are not integrated, posing a risk of fraud if adequate records are not maintained.
The Permanent Secretary again defended the use of Fund resources to meet expenditure funded by appropriated funds on the basis that the Fund had no independent stuff but was administered by officials at the
Ministry’s Head Office. Though the Head Office officials administer the Fund, it is the considered view of the Committee that there should be a clear demarcation of expenditures and ensures that Fund revenue is utilised for the purpose for which the Fund was established.
4.6.6.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 30th September, 2017, set up a Management Committee responsible for the day to day running of the Fund.
4.6.6.2 Treasury should, by 30th September, 2017, review and advice on the continued retention of funds by the Ministry, in view of the violations observed.
4.6.7 Advances to Treasury
It has been reported that in 2009 the Fund advanced $888 678 to Treasury for the purchase of vehicle spare parts. Since that time the amount has been appearing in the Fund’s balance sheet as an advance. There was no evidence of follow up to ensure that the advance was recovered.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the
Ministry made some follow ups with Treasury and the response was that Treasury was looking at advances from these funds in a holistic manner.
Again, the Committee was dismayed to note that the Permanent Secretary gave a response that was at variance with the one he previous gave to auditors. He had said to the auditors that the amount was wrongly classified as an advance to Treasury when in fact it should have been treated as an expense. He indicated that the error had since been corrected. Under such circumstances, the Committee is left wondering as to what exactly is the correct position regarding the matter.
4.6.7.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, submit to Parliament documentary evidence regarding the correct stance in relation to the advance.
4.6.8 Absence of Assets Register for the Fund
Accounting Officer’s Instruction clearly states the need for assets under the Fund to be recorded in an asset register clearly marked with the name of Fund. The Audit observed that the Fund was not maintaining a separate register from its parent Ministry. As a result, the assets belonging to the Traffic and Legislation Fund could not be identified and verified form those of the Ministry.
The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that there were administrative lapses and the Ministry now maintains a separate asset register for the Fund.
4.6.8.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry should, by 31st August 2017, submit to Parliament an asset register for the Fund.
4.6.9 Failure to maintain ledger accounts for depreciation
Audit observed that the Fund did not maintain ledger accounts for depreciation. As a result, the rates applied in the calculation of depreciation were different from those provided in the accounting officer’s instructions resulting in a net understatement of depreciation in the 2013 financial statement by $77 676. The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that the ledger accounts for depreciation were now in place and that correct rates were now being used.
4.6.9.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry submit to Parliament the ledger accounts for depreciation by 31st August 2017.
5.0 CONCLUSION
The Committee draws a general observation that the Ministry has no separate accounting units within its structure to oversee the administration of each of the four Funds under its purview, save for, the Central Vehicle Registry. This arrangement is the main source of the numerous challenges and inefficiencies confronting these Funds. There is one Chief Accountant responsible for the administration of these Funds in addition to the Appropriation Account. Consequently, the state of governance in the administration of the Funds leaves a lot to be desired. The Constitutions are very clear on the need for Management Committees to oversee the day to day administration of these Funds, but this has been ignored and there are no consequences for such non adherence to the regulations. These have to be constituted as a matter of urgency.
The attitude of the Permanent Secretary as the Accounting Officer in respect to audit issues makes a mockery of the Office of the Auditor General. This has been displayed in the manner he has responded to audit observations which did not tackle the issues at hand. The PFMA is very clear on the need to cooperate with auditors in the process of executing their constitutional mandate. To say the least, the Permanent Secretary had shown disregard for the work of the Audit office as similar issues are raised year after year without corrective action being taken. He had also shown disregard for laid down policies and procedures as he was not apologetic for violating Constitutions of Funds under the Ministry.
He had further shown disregard for the Treasury in failing to seek approval for operating outside the regulations when situations demanded so. The Permanent Secretary displayed a lax attitude even when he responded to questions put to him by the Committee. The Committee gave stern warning to the Permanent Secretary to reflect on his conduct and ensure that he provides that assurance that he is properly managing public funds in line with laid down policies and procedures.
Lastly, as observed in other Ministries, Funds are generally poorly managed by Ministries when compared to Appropriation funds as demonstrated by the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Going forward, Treasury should direct that all revenue collected under various funds be deposited into the Consolidated Fund before it can be disbursed to Fund Administrators to ensure proper utilisation. I thank you.
HON. CROSS: I think you would have gathered Madam Speaker
from this report’s contents that this is one of the worst reports that we have presented to this House in the past three years. The principal problem at the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development was the attitude of the Permanent Secretary. He certainly did not cover himself with glory in his presentations to the Committee when he appeared before us. The problems which we encountered at the Ministry are many and have been adequately covered in the report itself.
I just want to bring to the House’s attention a couple of things which I regard as being of extreme importance. The first thing is the magnitude of the sums which are involved here. We are talking about in many cases millions of dollars rather than hundreds of thousands or even tens of thousands. We are talking about a Permanent Secretary taking no action to discipline a member of staff who stole $190 000. We are talking about a Ministry which supervises eight of the largest parastatals in the country, including critical parastatals such as Air Zimbabwe and the National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ), all of which are in direstraits from the financial point of view. The NRZ is not a going concern, neither is Air Zimbabwe, all of which are running at a heavy
loss.
I think the extent of administration and accounting exhibited by the Ministry Madam Speaker gives great cause for concern. I want to talk particularly today about one issue, which was the question of the licence plate fund. We pay $160 for a licence plate that in South Africa costs you $16. So, we pay ten times more than the South Africans. When we investigated this, we discovered that they have no stock system. We discovered that the contractor who supplies the licence plates has been the same contractor for 23 years. There has been no examination of costs, no scrutiny of exactly why the contractor should remain contractor for supplying number plates for 23 years and whether or not they should go to tender.
What shocked me Madam Speaker was the size of the surplus funds which were generated by this fund and the fact that the Permanent Secretary regarded these funds as being at his discretion. I would just point out that this habit inside the Government of treating levies and funds as a form of taxation; if you add all the levies and funds which we subscribed to, they constitute 30% of the cost of employment. If you add all these ancillary costs such as licence plates fees and things like that, it increases the cost of our operations in Zimbabwe very considerably. Here you have a Permanent Secretary and a Ministry which is using these funds at their discretion to make $23 million loan to Air Zimbabwe without justification, without even a note on the accounts and without even asking the Ministry of Finance to authorise them to do so simply because Air Zimbabwe cannot pay their salaries. This is unacceptable.
The fact that the Permanent Secretary has been moved from this Ministry to another Ministry without the necessary disciplinary action being taken is not good enough – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I think what we have got to say today is that we want the Minister, Hon. Gumbo to appear before this House within ten days or as soon as possible thereafter and give a full explanation of what he has done about these issues. I do not think we should rest until that has happened.
The other question that I have Madam Speaker is the question of ZINARA. We must reckon that ZINARA today is collecting about $300 million a year and that is the revenue that is received by NSSA. It seems to me that ZINARA is treated as a cash cow by many Ministries and by individuals in Government and it is doing all sorts of things. For example, the changes to the road system outside Borrowdale Village, which have just been completed was conducted without the permission of the Municipality of Harare, without their knowledge and consultation. Not even plan approval was sought. The Mayor of Harare simply saw a contractor move on site, funded by ZINARA and they knew nothing about it. Madam Speaker, that is totally unacceptable.
In another instance in Bulawayo, the Mayor was driving to work one morning and found a contractor fixing the Hillside Road. The
Hillside Road was refurbished from one end to the other. It was done by ZINARA using ZINARA funds. The Municipality of Bulawayo was not consulted, there was no plan approval and no cash transfer to the municipality, instead of which ZINARA does not pay what the municipality should be receiving for road maintenance. Madam Speaker, this is simply not acceptable.
I acknowledge that the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development who was here a few minutes ago has in fact imposed on ZINARA some discipline because he told ZINARA to allocate a certain amount of money, that is $10 million for the municipalities, which is absolutely nothing. Harare by itself used to collect $36 million a year from licence fees and all of this goes to ZINARA now. In Bulawayo, we used to collect $9.5 million and we now collect $800 000, which is less than 10% from ZINARA.
When I look at ZINARA, I see an institution which is spending twice what it is supposed to be spending on administration. In the Act, ZINARA is supposed to limit its administrative costs to 7%. Last year, they spent 19% of revenue on administration. They have a luxury head office, they have expensive vehicles. Madam Speaker, this kind of situation cannot be tolerated. These institutions must be brought under State control and must be brought under ministerial control and they must live within their mandate. I think the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) has done a great job in bringing this report to the House and I commend the report for adoption.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to lend my voice on this quite effective report that is pregnant with a lot of issues that are very key. Yours truly is the Chairperson of the Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development. It gives me great sadness that I stand here and have to try and lend my voice in a committee that is riddled with parastatals that are non-performing to say the least. Therefore, the efforts should be directed in trying to bolster your Committee in terms of making sure that it carries out its mandate in a way that is unimpeded, that is going to make sure that these parastatals get out of the doldrums of economic quagmire and incompetence that they are currently in, as opposed to trying to dissipate and make sure they disintegrate the committee from other sectors.
Madam Speaker, the issue that the parastatals or the Ministry has got about 27 revenue streams of which 15 are non-computerised and are non-accounted for and maybe just below 15 are accounted for in terms of effective monitoring is unjustifiable and should not be condoned. I want to give you a snippet of what monitoring of revenue streams and computerisation of them can do to a sector. Currently, the Ministry has requested in the 2017 Budget $5.5 million for the dualisation of the
Ruwa Turn Off to the tollgate along the Harare – Marondera Road. I want to also tell you what $6.5 million can do on the Norton to Kadoma Highway. They have requested for that amount in the 2017 Budget to dualise Norton to the Norton Tollgate. We see in this report not $5 million, not $6 million but a ubiquitous amount of money running into millions of over $10 million to $20 million that is not being accounted for because of a moribund, antiquated, rudimental and historical way of dealing with modern day issues. We need to immediately enforce revenue generation, revenue accounting systems using the right methods which are computerisation. Otherwise we will want to continue to tax the unsuspecting innocent citizenry in order to finance private individuals who are entrenched in their positions of authority in the Ministry.
By the way, the Ministry of Transport is involved in multi-billion tender processes or buying processes that involve multi-billions. For it to continue to be rudimental in the matter it is, it is certainly uncalled for. The first thing that I want to make a clarion call to are issues to do with the revenue collection systems that are not riddled with a lot of paper work but that are computerised and there is a track record, aware that if you deal with a computer, it is garbage in garbage out. If you want to deal with modern day ways of doing issues, you open a computer, input information – you leave a foot print. You leave a print there that is going to trace back where and what happened to the money. We are supposed to be custodians of our God given wealth and we are also supposed to be custodians of the taxes that Zimbabweans are paying.
We also need to do away with the issues of continuously levying of our citizens. This cannot be condoned and should not come at a time when we cannot account for the little that we have been given. We should first account for that which we have been given. I will give you an example; I am aware as your Chairperson of the Committee on Transport that annually, there is about 100 000 certificates of competences that are produced in the whole nation by VID Depots around the country. You would know, like I do, that anyone of the Hon. Members here present, at some point or the other, there has been a call from a relative or otherwise that has been called upon to produce US$150-200 in order for them to go through licencing system in the VID for them to get a certificate of competence.
What that translates to is; a minimum of US$150 will translate to US$15 million annually going to individuals. This is not going through the system and is not benefiting the nation. We are all creatures of the
Constitution and we are supposed to come here according to Section 117 – to make laws for the good order and just governance of man. We are supposed to be a Government by the people, with the people and for the people. If we continue to turn a blind eye to such issues, we certainly continue to let down our people.
The other third issue that I want to allude to is that we need to integrate all systems so that one system in the Ministry can police the other. There are more than 13 parastatals that fall under the Ministry of Transport. If they are disintegrated in their modus operandi, we are certainly fooling ourselves. We are pulling wool over ourselves. As a Committee, we asked the Minister the other time to come and make a Ministerial Statement here regarding insurance and third party insurance to which he acceded to. I applaud him for coming here to come and tell this august House that between 2009 and 2016, they only received
US$264 000 from the remittance of 12,5% on third party insurance.
A report is coming to this House but because of this report, I can tell you that before the year is out from May 2016 to date; what has been attributed to the Traffic Safety Council and to the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development in general is about US$10 million. What has gotten to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is about US$5 million. There is nothing that speaks greater in terms of financial accountability than systems speaking one to another and systems being computerised and integrated in particular, in the transport management system because I have said it; that this is a multi-billion dollar industry. If we continue to turn a blind eye, we are shooting ourselves and the nation in the foot.
The past few days have not been very good for the country in that we saw 43 people perish in a bus accident at Makuti near Karoi. Just yesterday, at Dema Growth Point, about eight people perished in a commuter omnibus. I will tell you where my heart lies in terms of financial accountability. There is money which is paid – minimum
US$400 for every public service vehicle which has a minimum of about 15 seater. This money is paid towards insurance. This money is for the bereaved in terms of compassionate compensation. They are supposed to get US$2 000-3 000. If they are injured, they are injured, they are supposed to get nothing less than US$1 000. What we have seen in the Lion King bus where 43 people perished, we saw Insurance Council of Zimbabwe rise to the fore to say that they had insured that bus and they have paid an amount that is equivalent to about US$2 000 towards the bereaved families. This is the sort of scenario we would want to occur even at Dema Growth Point accident but alas, this cannot occur like that because that passenger insurance is not yet computerised. So, the unsuspecting innocent citizens are going to die for free whilst monies are being received by phony, fraudulent and fakesters because of lack of computerisation.
Computerisation can plug illicit outflows, revenue leakages and it can have a spike in revenue generation. I call for such computerisation right now and integration of all systems. Last week, the Minister of Home Affairs came in to say, as long as they are embedded in the transport management system of the country, there is going to be a lot of revenue generation; not only that, there is going to be an unimpeded advance towards economic development because of the reduction of road blocks. It was not I who said it. It was the Minister of Home Affairs who said it under oath. He said that it was going to occur this week. As your Committee Madam Speaker Maam, we are awaiting for the spike in revenue generation, effective policing and reduction and eradication of road blocks. That Madam Speaker Maam, speaks to an effective and efficient transport management system. As long as we do not integrate these systems, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
As I conclude, we have spoken so vociferously all the time about the parastatals that fall under the Ministry of Transport. These include Air Zimbabwe, the Civil Aviation Authority, CMED and NRZ. I am aware that the US$653 million required at NRZ that is as enshrined in your report from your Committee. I am also aware there is a US$1,300 billion required at Air Zimbabwe. I am also alive to the issue that there is a lot of money owed by ZEC to CMED. As alluded to in this report, if Government does not take over the debt of Air Zimbabwe and clean the balance sheet of National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ), you might as well abolish your Committee because we have nothing to do. We need to efficiently monitor and have oversight on these parastatals, aware that they are turning over a new leaf.
Madam Speaker, why do I say this? Government took over the COTTCO debt of US$68 million. It has given more than four seasons worth of free inputs to cotton farmers. It can also take over the debt of Air Zimbabwe and NRZ so that you make the Auditor-General’s job very easy and you also make the job of yours truly and your Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development quite amenable to modern day trends in order that we can be embedded as Air Zimbabwe with other international organisations and airlines to create an aviation hub that is second to none, in particular at Victoria Falls airport and to also complement and augment the existing rail network then we can create a north-south corridor that is second to none. By so doing, we can obviously have an effective, efficient, transparent and illicit outflows and flaws free transport system. I thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me start by saying here the vision and mission of the Auditor-General, the Auditor-
General’s Office is a creation of this Parliament. It says, “to examine, audit and report to Parliament on the management of public resources of Zimbabwe through committed and motivated staff with the aim of improving accountability and corporate governance.”
The reason I am reading this mission statement is that I am holding three books here. One is of Appropriation, one is of State Enterprises and the other one is of local authorities for 2016 that have been tabled in this Parliament by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. What it means is that the Auditor-General is now up to date and for a very long time, the Auditor-General was four to five years behind and now she is up to date. So she is living up to her mission and vision.
What I understand is that the first five year term of the AuditorGeneral is coming to an end and for me, we do not change a winning formula and we must not change a winning team. The Auditor-General as it is, is a winning team and formula. I would implore that the Auditor-General is given another five year term so that she continues with her good work – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – What I know, with the reports that the Auditor-General has submitted to this
Parliament through the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, is that there is a lot of Hannah Hannah in the corridors of power to probably not renew her contract so that people are not audited. I am going to put that aside but, borrowing from Hon. Nduna’s English, my clarion call is that the Auditor-General is given another five year term so that she continues with her good work.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, the report that has been presented by the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee makes very sad reading. I have browsed through the Appropriation of 2016 and it makes equally very sad reading. The Permanent Secretary who was in the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development who has just been transferred to another Ministry is a former General Manager of National Railways of Zimbabwe. He then became a Principal Director in Government, was promoted to Permanent Secretary of Ministry of Transport and
Infrastructural Development and now moved to Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development in Zimbabwe is one of the most problematic because money has been lost in that sector. The President has alluded that money has been lost in that sector.
The Permanent Secretary, Mr. Munodawafa is replacing Prof. Gudyanga who has been recommended to be fired by your Parliament because of incompetence and fraud. The Portfolio Committee on Public Service has recommended that he be fired yet he has been transferred to another Ministry. I am so happy that the Vice President who is the deputy head of State, the deputy head of Government and the deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces is here. I want to ask a question to Hon. Vice President Mphoko - what goes on in your head when you hear a report like the one that has been presented in this
Parliament? Do you go home, eat supper and sleep? – [HON. HOLDER: Address the Speaker!] - In this Parliament, back benchers are not in this Parliament to protect Ministers. They must know that – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Back benchers are not here to protect speakers. The Vice President of Zimbabwe, Hon. Mphoko, the Vice President of Zimbabwe Hon. Mnangagwa and the Head of State of this country, Cde Robert Mugabe are very intelligent men. They do not need to be protected by back benchers because they can protect themselves –
[HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – Why should a back bencher who got –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Madam Speaker! – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order – [HON.
HOLDER: Point of order!] – Order, order Hon. Members, Hon. Vice President Mphoko please.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL
HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):
I want to help him so that at least he continues. Madam Speaker, he asked about how we feel when such reports are presented? Personally, I am very allergic to corruption, I do not like it. I am not a corrupt man. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Thank you. – [HON. MARIDADI:
Thank you. Ngiyabonga baba Mphoko, ngiyabonga kakhulu.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Maridadi
please stick to the debate. – [HON. HOLDER: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Holder, I will not allow any points of order at this juncture. The Hon. Vice President has spoken and I will not allow you to speak after him. – [HON. HOLDER: Zvakanaka!] – Hon. Maridadi, please continue with your debate.
HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, the audit system that we use in Zimbabwe is the same audit system that is used in Malawi, Zambia and almost the same audit system that is used in South Africa. I have taken the liberty to look at all those jurisdictions and did a comparative analysis of what happens in those jurisdictions.
When they present audit reports in the Parliament of Malawi, the Minister who is in charge of that Ministry, if it is the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and whatever, the Permanent Secretaries of ministries that the Committee has oversight on are in Parliament seated there. The Ministers are in Parliament, they are seated there and the report is presented. The Minister will rise and respond to that report and say exactly what they are going to do in response to issues that have been raised in that report and that is the system that we must adopt in this country. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Hon. Dr. Gumbo should have been there, Mr. Munodawafa should have been seated in that chair and Hon. Mpariwa should have been reading this report. I would have asked Hon. Dr. Gumbo - are you going to have a good night’s sleep after listening to this report? I would have asked Mr.
Munodawafa - what are you going to do after listening to this report because an honourable man would simply say, Minister, I have failed and here is my resignation. I have eaten enough money and done enough corruption. Here is my resignation letter – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker, my blood boils when I go back to the constituency. The house that I live in, tonight we do not know where our meal is going to come from, our supper. I do not know where my supper is going to come from tonight. In the house next door, they also do not know where their supper is going to come from and we have a report which says $97 million cannot be accounted for. Madam Speaker, $97 million is about 1.2 billion rands. If you take $97 million and put it in Mutare Municipality, even stray cats in Mutare will change their lifestyles because they will realise money has been put into this town. That money cannot be accounted for and there is a gentleman who is driving a Government vehicle, going to his house, enjoying a salary and nothing has happened to him. He has been re-assigned to another
Ministry where he is going to continue pilferage to the coffers of this country. It cannot be accepted.
One day I was in the Portfolio Committee and there was one gentleman who came to give evidence. I was saying, how about Parliament going to Highfield, Mukumbura, Mabvuku and Kuwadzana and do these sessions with the public of which the public would hear that the gentleman who is giving evidence has just misappropriated $1.1 million and nothing has happened. Anorohwa kuMabvuku ikoko. People in Mabvuku will kill him because this money does not belong to me or to this Parliament. It belongs to the 15 million of us in Zimbabwe.
What pains me most is that Zimbabwe is endowed with people with skills? Why do we recycle the same 21 Permanent Secretaries as if they are the only people who are called Zimbabweans? For the life of myself, I cannot understand why Parliament has recommended that somebody should be fired but instead of being fired he has been put into a Ministry where there are more revenue streams.
Madam Speaker, I was in that Portfolio Committee when Mr.
Munodawafa came, he confessed that it does not really matter how much money we put into Air Zimbabwe. Air Zimbabwe can never be viable for as long as they use the business model that they are using. It is there; it is recorded and he said it, yet he is the same man, one month earlier he allowed $27 million to be put into Air Zimbabwe without even a single sentence to say I have put money into that parastatal. That money has been thrown down a bottomless pit and it will never be recovered.
That level of impunity; that level of entitlement cannot be allowed to continue. I can guarantee you, with this type of reports, one day we will not be Members of Parliament, but our sons and daughters will be Members of this Parliament. They will go and spit on our graves and say, what were you doing in that Parliament talking and talking and yet you allowed these fraudsters to continue to steal our money.
There is another issue of $ 1.9 million which has been stolen. We have orphans; children who have lost both parents to either road accidents or diseases. Those children are not going to school and yet this Government fails to account for $1.9 million and the person who has caused the disappearance of that $1.9 million is still there wearing a suit, going to a Government Complex and pretending to be working for Government. It is not acceptable – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
The Lion King accident claimed two people from my constituency. One of them was a young woman, 32 years old and she left two young children. One is about nine months old and the other one is about 4 years old. We were at that funeral and Government had not disbursed $200 for the funeral. There are children who have to be looked after until they turn 18 years. Those children – [HON. HOLDER: Inaudible interjection.] – I will not listen to that man. I will call him names if he continues to do that and I will not be very charitable when I call him names.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, focus on the
debate.
HON. MARIDADI: Please tell him to keep quiet. We are
discussing serious matters here and if he continues to disturb me, I will call him names and I will call him names that is so unpalatable; he will never like me. I am very good at that by the way.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Maridadi. I
will not allow emotions to go over this motion because it is important for us to have a report of this motion. Hon. Holder please, can you please respect the Member who is speaking so that he can debate. If you have any comments, I will allow you to debate on the same matter.
HON. MARIDADI: This matter is a serious issue. I get
emotional about this matter because it is a serious issue. This is
Zimbabwean money which is being stolen by individuals that we know. I represent a constituency of about 80 thousand people. If I go round that constituency, there are households and I am going to one of such households today, where there are 18 people living at that household; none of them knows where to get the next meal.
I was talking about that lady who passed on. The children, one of them is about one year old and the other is about four years old. We do not have a mechanism of looking after the disadvantaged in society.
Those children must now be a responsibility of this Government. Now, how can the State take responsibility of such people when such money is disappearing without trace?
Madam Speaker, we are talking here of ZINARA – [HON.
HOLDER: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Holder, I will not allow
you to continue in that way. If you continue to shout, I will not hesitate to chase you out of this House.
HON. MARIDADI: ZINARA, when I hear the word ZINARA….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, you are left
with five minutes. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members on my right, this is a very important motion.
HON. MARIDADI: I am left with five minutes but I am being disturbed. My recommendation Madam Speaker; the Portfolio
Committee Chairperson has given timelines of what must be done. Those timelines must be observed. If this Parliament wants to be taken seriously by the people that we represent out there, heads in Government must roll. The first head to roll in this Government is that of Mr.
Munodawafa. Concurrently, the head that must roll is that of Professor Gudyanga. If it were me running the show, I would expect the Minister to come with the resignation of the Permanent Secretary. He hands it over to the President and says Mr. President, here is the resignation letter from the Permanent Secretary and by the way, here is my resignation as well and they leave together. Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank
and congratulate, Hon. Paurina Mpariwa the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee and her Committee for continuing to execute their duties and unfortunately, depress us with an endless litany of misappropriation of public funds in our nation. At the beginning when Hon. Mpariwa was speaking, there was a lot of hub-hub and discussion in the House. When she continued with the report, I started thinking that possibly the reason why Hon. Members were continuing to hum and not listening, was that may be we have gotten to the very shameful and unfortunate point where we are now accustomed to the fact that whenever the Public Accounts Committee issues a report on the performance of accounts and appropriations in any Government department, we now know that there is always misappropriation, pilfering and disappeared funds.
Madam Speaker, it is a very sad state of affairs. It appears as if we have become numb and we do not expect anything different that we can actually predict that she is going to tell us that the Auditor General condemned this procedure, found unsupported expenditure and so on and so on, and indeed it is. What then becomes different is only the amounts that are lost and that are unaccounted for or maybe the manner or the attitude of the people responsible.
Madam Speaker, I think it is time that this Parliament, that we shake ourselves and awake from our slumber. We cannot sit here day by day, listen and just digest and take in all these shocking reports of pilfering. I do agree with Hon. Members who spoke before me, US$65 million is a shocking amount of money to just disappear, as it were, to
be unaccounted for. For a Government to be prejudiced or potentially prejudiced of US$65 million is totally wrong.
Madam Speaker, I want to ask fellow members of the august House, what it is that we are doing and what we are going to do about this because the way that these monies have disappeared is actually unconstitutional. Even our Constitution itself went to detail in explaining and detailing what it is that must be happening to public funds.
In part four of the chapter on Public Finances, Chapter 17, it lays out duties of custodians of funds and property. Now, this former
Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development that was being talked about and the other officers who seem to have connived in one way or the other, are custodians of public property as envisaged by Section 308.
Subsection 2 provides that it is the duty of every person who is responsible for the expenditure of public funds to safe guard those funds and to ensure that they are spent only for legally authorised purposes and in legally authorised amounts. Subsection 3 provides further that they also have a duty, those who have the custody and control of public property, to safeguard the property and ensure that it is not lost, destroyed, damaged, misapplied or misused.
In this case, we have been told by the Portfolio Committee that stocks pertaining to number plates are not accounted for and that is only one of the issues. Madam Speaker, we are also told that this Parliament must provide, in Subsection 4 of Section 308, and I quote, ‘the speedy detection of breeches of subsections 2 and 3, that is the misappropriation of funds or the misappropriation of property and the disciplining and punishment of persons responsible for any such breaches and where appropriate, the recovery of misappropriated funds or property’.
In that light, Madam Speaker, I want to recommend that for once, in resolving, and I hope we will adopt this report, that we go further and actually execute what is said in the Constitution. There must be prosecutions of these people who pilfered funds. Our duty, as
Parliament, is to ensure that our Constitution is upheld. We have a
Prosecutor General who is established in terms of Chapter 13 and in Section 259 the Prosecutor General is empowered to direct the
Commissioner General of the Police to investigate any suspected crime.
In winding up the motion of this report, I want to propose that we go even further. It is clear that there is money missing here. I want to propose that the House resolves that the Prosecutor General is recommended to exercise their powers in terms of Section 259 and have the Commissioner General to specifically investigate the commission of criminal offenses regarding the various amounts that had been lost in one way or the other. I also want to propose that in terms of Section 308 (4) that this Parliament is enjoined to also provide mechanisms of not only prosecuting and stopping this, but also recover monies.
The report read by Hon. Mpariwa tells us that an amount of possibly US$1.9 million was spent in making telephones for the Ministry and that only when safeguards were put in place, the amount dropped to US$649 thousand. Madam Speaker, I want to propose that this House uses its power to also recommend that monies that were expended making telephone calls, which I assume using Tel One lines, are recovered and specifically, that the Ministry is recommended to get print-outs from Tel One that indicate the numbers that were telephoned and for there to be a forensic owning up of the numbers and whoever it is who would have telephoned on private business would be made to recover that money.
I also have a word for the Attorney General’s office as well. We are told that the contract that pertains to the collection of monies from ZINARA for the Limpopo bridge was done in a manner that did not have a contract that was drafted. Madam Speaker, we have a whole
Ministry that has legal expertise and the Attorney General’s office which is, in terms of the Constitution, enjoined to give Government legal advice. I want to propose and recommend that the Committee also ensures that there is improvement in the way that legal relationships are entered with the Government. That the Attorney General’s Office takes a more proactive and a more responsible role, as far as going over and drafting contracts, to ensure that we do not have such large amounts of money and such valuable contracts being conducted in a manner that is totally unknown.
Madam Speaker, I cannot avoid speaking about the reason why I moved to debate in this motion. On our Order Paper, we have order number 41, that is a motion that is pending before this House, pertaining to the use of monies by ZINARA. I want to implore upon this House to finally resolve and to avoid us the shame that Hon. Maridadi was referring to, that our descendents will spit on our graves if they ask us,
‘what we were doing when we were sitting in that Parliament and being entertained by endless reports of pilferages’, that we actually take action. It would not be necessary to move motions to ensure that monies be taken back to local authorities. Like even Hon. Cross has mentioned that the municipalities of Harare and Bulawayo, just as an example, are not receiving monies for the repairing of roads.
Madam Speaker, in the Constituency that I represent in Harare
West, I was just speaking in Good Hope there. If we were to go to Good Hope suburb you would be forgiven to think you are in some rural outpost in God knows where. The residents are extremely upset, they are extremely angry. They are having to get money out of their pockets to repair roads and yet we hear that ZINARA, in this particular report, misappropriates money, not by the pick or by the shovel, but by whole earth movers and yet the roads in our localities are gone.
Just on Friday or so, Madam Speaker, I read with sadness, the report that a headmaster from a school in Kwekwe lost his life coming from a teacher’s union meeting in Kariba when the car they were travelling in tried to avoid a pot hole, rolled and the school head was killed. I want us, as we debate this motion and the pilfering of monies that are for roads, to remember that the cost of financial impropriatory, the cost of stealing money from taxpayers in this way results in lives being lost, apart from the Lion King Bus, but the numbers of
Zimbabweans who have lost their lives perishing on the roads – is what this US$65 million prejudice costs.
Madam Speaker I want to urge that Hon. Members do resolve and unite in order to make sure that we assist the Portfolio Committee that has exposed this to indeed, take measures for once for heads to roll. As I indicated, Madam Speaker, especially where we are told that the Permanent Secretary who was in that Ministry showed total lack of remorse and seemed to think that it is particularly okay. I do not blame him because surely, if he can be in charge of pilfering and actually supervise over the missing of funds and not hold account, I am sure he is in his right senses to actually act like it does not matter because he has actually been promoted. I would believe that a transfer to the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development is a promotion.
It has not mattered so far, but Madam Speaker, let this House put an end to this and draw a line and have consequences visiting upon people. Let us not continue to be numb about these issues. Madam Speaker, I therefore end my debate by exhorting Hon. Members to indeed, finally resolve to take strident and action, as well as the Anti Corruption Commission. What does it do, why do we have an Anti-
Corruption Commission when this is corruption of the highest order? It has become the order of the day and there are very wide powers that the Anti-Corruption Commission has to stop this kind of behavior. The next public official who flouts Government tender procedures or expenditure procedures must know that Parliament will not tolerate it and that we have better discipline. I thank you Madam Speaker.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th June, 2017.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I just want to thank Hon. Mphoko for
being here. We really appreciate. It is a very good thing. Thank you Vice President, we appreciate your presence. When we have Vice Presidents in the House, it gives dignity to the reports that are being given. Thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate.
The House accordingly adjourned at Seven Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 22nd June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
OFFICIAL OPENING OF BATANAI PRIMARY SCHOOL
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the Hon. Members
from Manicaland Province that the official opening of Batanai Primary School in Headlands Constituency, Manicaland Province, which was scheduled for 30 June 2017, has been brought forward to 29 June, 2017 at 1000 hours.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 8
on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the
Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 40TH PLENARY SESSION OF THE SADC-
PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
HON. DR. MUKANDURI: I move the motion standing in my
name that this House takes note of the Report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held in Harare, Zimbabwe from the 3rd to the 15th of November, 2016.
HON. MAVENYENGWA: I second.
HON. DR. MUKANDURI:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1.1. In line with Strategic Goal Number Seven (7), the Role of
Parliament in National Development, the strategy to analyse and debate policies and legislation for national development, the 40th Plenary
Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was convened in
Harare, Zimbabwe from 03 to 15 November 2016 under the theme,
“Statelessness in the SADC Region”. Thirteen countries (13) countries were represented at the Plenary which included: Angola, Botswana,
Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Lesotho, Malawi, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Seychelles, South Africa, Swaziland, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
1.2 The delegation from Zimbabwe which was led by Hon. Advocate J.F. Mudenda, Speaker of the National Assembly, comprised the following Members of Parliament:-
Hon M. Mutsvangwa, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Dr. S. Mukanduri, Member of Parliament;
Hon. T. Mohadi, Member of Parliament; Hon. I. Gonese, Member of Parliament, and
Hon. J. Toffa, Member of Parliament.
1.3 The following Members of Parliament attended the Plenary
Assembly as observers:-
Hon. J. Passade, Member of Parliament;
Hon. J. Mhlanga, Member of Parliament; Hon R. Bunjira, Member of Parliament; and Hon. E. Murai, Member of Parliament.
1.0 OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONY
2.1.1 KEY NOTE ADDRESS BY HON. E.D. MNANGAGWA, VICE-PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS
2.1.2 Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa, the Vice-President and Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, officially opened the 40th
Plenary Assembly. In his address, Hon. Mnangagwa commended
SADC PF for identifying “Statelessness” as the central theme of the 40th Plenary Assembly as it is critical in ensuring the final ratification and implementation of the SADC Protocol on the Facilitation of the Movement of Persons of 2005.
2.1.3 The Vice-President outlined the challenges associated with statelessness which include difficulties in travelling, marrying and accessing education and health care. He implored on SADC Member States that have not acceded to or domesticated the 1954 UN Convention relating to the Status of Stateless Persons and the 1961 UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, to ensure that this is done speedily.
2.1.4 On the recurrent topic of SADC PF’s quest to transform itself into a Regional Parliament, the Vice-President, encouraged Member States to lobby their Foreign Affairs Ministers to include the matter on the agenda of the next SADC Summit of Heads of State and
Government.
2.1.3 STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE
REGIONAL WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS (RWPC)
2.1.4 Hon. Dr. Patricia Kainga Nangozo reiterated the fact that women bore the brunt of statelessness through lack of gender neutral citizenship laws. Dr. Kainga indicated that women lose their citizenship upon marriage to foreigners and are unable to pass on their citizenship to their children.
2.1.5 The Plenary Assembly was informed that there is incontrovertible evidence that when women are in charge of politics and the economy, great improvements are realised in the socio-economic conditions of a country.
2.1.6 Finally, she advocated for fifty percent gender equality to be a reality, applauding Zimbabwe for introducing a quota system which tremendously contributed to the participation of women in Parliament.
2.1.4 ADDRESS BY DR. E. CHIVIYA, SECRETARY-
GENERAL OF THE SADC PF
2.1.4.1In his address, Dr. Esau Chiviya applauded Zimbabwe for hosting the Plenary Assembly for a record fifth time, which spoke to
Zimbabwe’s commitment to the values of the SADC PF. He implored Member States to seriously consider the Transformation of the Forum into a Regional Parliament and commended the ninety three percent turnout to the 40th Plenary Assembly Session.
2.1.5 HON. NJOBVUYALEMA’S STATEMENT
2.1.5.1Hon Njobvuyalema, the outgoing Vice-President of the SADC PF, lamented the failure by the regional body to attain the goal of transforming into a Regional Parliament and urged the Forum to intensify efforts for that transformation.
2.0 SYMPOSIUM ON THE THEME: “STATELESSNESS
IN THE SADC REGION”
3.1 Five (5) resource persons made presentations on the theme and these included:-
- R. Tabagwa, the Country Representative from the United
Nations Refugees Agency (UNHCR) in Zimbabwe;
- M. Reuss, the Senior Regional Protection Officer on
Statelessness of the UNHCR in Southern Africa;
- T. Mabonga an Associated Protection Officer of the UNHCR in Zimbabwe;
- I. Matambanadzo, a Gender Specialist, and
- L. Muller, the Director of Statelessness Programme and
Lawyers for Human Rights in South Africa.
- It was noted that Statelessness is a global problem affecting about 10 million people without nationality. In Southern Africa, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are stateless.
- Causes of Statelessness emanate from forced displacements, inaccessibility of services by public administrations, disintegration of traditional family bonds, discrimination on the grounds of gender and non-recognition of migrant workers, among others.
- The impacts of Statelessness include lack of identity for the affected persons, challenges in getting married, denial of property rights, and inaccessibility to social services such as health, education and restrictions of movement, among others. The most affected groups are women, children, refugees and migrant workers, who in times of conflict and upheaval, experience amplified levels of sexual violence. The Plenary noted that women carry a disproportionate responsibility in raising children conceived out of conflict situations.
- National Governments were urged to scale up political commitment to address specific vulnerabilities of stateless women and children in a humanitarian manner.
- International and regional agreements which protect the rights of stateless include the 1954 Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons and the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness as well as the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child.
- National Parliaments were called upon to accede to these instruments, support the drafting, adoption and ratification of protocols and work towards the development and adoption of a SADC Ministerial Declaration and Action Plan on Statelessness. Parliaments within the region were implored to note the vacuum in the appropriate and enabling legislation to mitigate and eliminate the root causes of statelessness and initiate legislative reforms that address identified gaps or challenges, including discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or gender, thereby helping to prevent statelessness.
- In their individual capacities, Parliamentarians were urged to join the “I belong” campaign which is a Global Plan of Action to End Statelessness by 2024, spearheaded by the UNHCR.
3.0 MEETING OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
The Committee deliberated on the following matters:-
4.1 Parliamentary Studies Institute (PSI)
4.1.1 Firstly, to ensure sustainability of the PSI, it was agreed that funding for the Institute would be drawn primarily from Member contributions instead of co-operating partners only. Secondly, a resolution was made to write formal letters to Members of the Executive in Zimbabwe that include Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa, Vice-President of the
Republic of Zimbabwe and Hon. Prof. J. Moyo, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, notifying them on the location of (PSI). It is trite to note that the University of Zimbabwe was identified as a suitable venue of the (PSI).
4.2 Election to the SADC-PF Executive Committee
4.2.1 Hon. Fernando de Pledade Dias dos Santos, Speaker of the
National Assembly of Angola took over the Presidency of the SADC
Parliamentary Forum, deputised by Hon. Monica Mutsvangwa of
Zimbabwe.
4.3. Annual Contributions by Member States
4.3.1 It was agreed that the mode of currency for annual contributions by Member Parliaments should remain as the Namibian dollar or the South African Rand. Member States were urged to settle outstanding arrears of subscriptions by the first quarter of 2017. As at 04 November, 2016, Zimbabwe had settled all outstanding contributions to the Forum. It was also agreed that the Forum should establish a timeframe, with a grace period, for payment of subscriptions, afterwhich a defaulting Member will be suspended and re-admitted upon clearance of all outstanding contributions.
4.3.2 The Annual Mandatory Contributions for the financial year 2017/18 were maintained as those of the 2016/17 financial year, with each Member Parliament contributing ZAR 1,430,000.00, except for the
Parliament of Seychelles whose contribution was pegged at ZAR
121,000.00.
5.0 TREASURER’S REPORT
5.1 Increament in Annual Member Contributions
5.1.1 The Plenary agreed that Member States should consult with their National Governments regarding the proposal for a 10% increament in Annual Mandatory Member contributions, and to give a response before the end of 2016.
5.1.2 Approval of the Budget of 2017/2018 Budget
5.1.3 A budget, outlining the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the 2017/18 financial year was approved.
6.0 LAUNCH OF THE SADC MODEL LAW ON
ERADICATING CHILD MARRIAGES AND PROTECTING THOSE IN MARRIAGE
6.1 Statement by Hon. J. Njobvuyalema, Outgoing Vice-
President of the SADC PF
6.1.1 Hon. J. Njobvuyalema, highlighted the importance of the Model Law in protecting the rights of the Girl-child both in and outside marriage. Some of the rights in the Model Law relate to access to family planning services, education and other entitlements to uplift the socioeconomic well-being of the Girl-child. Hon. J. Njobvuyalema appealed to the Legislators to develop strategies to popularise the Model Law in their countries for effective implementation.
6.2 Solidarity Message by Melissa Kubvoruno a Nineteen (19) year old girl (Girls Champion and Ambassador for Ending Child,
Early and Forced Marriage: Rozaria Memorial Trust)
In her solidarity message, the nineteen year old, young woman urged the Parliamentarians to address the following:-
6.2.1 Domestication of the SADC Model Law so that it becomes an authoritative source of law.
6.2.2 Enactment of a single marriage law to ensure clarity on the rights of the Girl-child.
6.2.3 Implementation of commitments in the SADC Model Law in order to address the social and economic issues that influence child marriages.
6.3 Launch of the Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and Protecting those Already in Marriage
6.3.1 Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa, Vice-President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, officially launched the Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and Protecting those Already in Marriage on 12 November, 2016.
6.3.2 In his statement, the Vice-President alluded to the importance of the Model Law as an essential tool to provide evidence-based information on how SADC countries can address child marriages, in light of inadequate or sometimes conflicting related legal instruments.
The Vice-President outlined that the Model Law could easily be adopted or adapted by the SADC Member States as they reform or develop legal instruments and policies pertaining to Child Marriages. Given that the Model Law is now recognised as a working document, the VicePresident encouraged the SADC PF Secretariat to consider transforming it into a SADC Protocol on Child Marriages.
6.3.3 In order to raise awareness on the Model Law, SADC PF was encouraged to organise workshops with key stakeholders, which included Parliamentarians and the media.
7.0 PLENARY SESSION
7.1 In tandem with its constitutive mandate, the 40th Plenary Assembly deliberated and resolved on various issues of regional importance and concern as set out in the Executive Committee Report,
Reports of the Standing Committees and the Regional Women’s
Parliamentary Caucus and Members’ motions.
7.1.2 Motion for the Adoption of the Prevalence of the dual
Epidemic of Tuberculosis (TB) and Diabetes around the World
7.1.3 The motion was moved by Hon. Ahmed Munzoor Shaik
Emam of South Africa, seconded by Hon. Jasmine Toffa of Zimbabwe.
The motion noted that according to the World Health Organisation (WHO) Report of 2016, T.B. still poses a serious public health concern despite major progress in reducing TB cases and deaths in the past two decades. The WHO also predicts that diabetes will be the seventh leading cause of death by 2030.
7.1.4 To address this challenge Member States were called upon to:-
- Commit themselves in addressing TB-Diabetes at an African and SADC level by kick-starting discussions on how this new health challenge that is likely to surpass the challenge of TBHIV in the future, can be addressed.
- Establish a Regional collaboration mechanism to conduct surveys, detect and manage TB disease prevalence among people with diabetes and vice-versa.
- Develop monitoring and evaluation tools to regularly assess the implementation and efficacy of such collaborative mechanisms.
- Consolidate, domesticate and implement various instruments
to address TB-Diabetes.
7.1.5 The Plenary Assembly, therefore, urged Member States to commit themselves to bring the TB pandemic to an end and ensure a reduction in mortality rates from non-communicable diseases including diabetes.
7.1.6 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.2 Motion for the Adoption of the Tackling Hunger in
Southern Africa
7.2.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Lukamba Paulo of Angola, seconded by Hon. Elias Enock Luka of Malawi. Sustainable agriculture was identified as a key factor in ensuring food security in the SADC region. It was noted, however, that the Region has a number of trade barriers militating against full agricultural production.
7.2.2 In this regard, the Plenary resolved that:-
7.2.3 Investment in agriculture is key to development in the region.
7.2.4 Parliaments are encouraged to ensure adequate budgetary support to the agricultural sector to ensure food security.
7.2.5 Member Parliaments to ensure the existence of policies which promote investment in agriculture at household level, as a developmental strategy and prioritise the allocation of arable land to small households.
7.2.6 Member States to prioritise capacity-building from lower grade professionals to higher education graduates in agriculture and veterinary services, with a view to modernise agricultural production.
7.2.7 There is need for a deliberate empowerment programme for farmers, which includes availing the means of production, such as affordable farming implements, tractors and inputs, seeds and irrigation equipment.
7.2.8 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.3 Motion for the Adoption of the Need for SADC Member
States to Expedite the Signing and Implementation of the Tripartite Free Trade Area Agreement (TFTA) aimed at creating an Enlarged Market Extending from Cape to Cairo.
7.3.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Jasmine Toffa of Zimbabwe and seconded by Hon. Ernest Yahaya of Malawi.
7.3.2 The motion focused on the strategies of facilitating InterAfrica trade to ensure that citizens derive maximum benefits from their natural resources by acceding to the Tripartite Free Trade Area
Agreement (TFTA).
7.3.3 The agreement seeks to create an enlarged market extending from Cape to Cairo. Non-signatory Members within SADC were encouraged to take the necessary steps to accede to the (TFTA) whose aim is to enhance the exploitation and beneficiation of African natural resources.
7.3.4 The Plenary was encouraged by the fact that 26 African
Countries had signed the TFTA.
7.3.5 The need to expedite the ratification process for the TFTA Agreement by Member States in line with their constitutional requirements was noted.
7.3.6 Member States were urged to enhance the beneficiation of their natural resources pursuant to the need to enhance value addition.
7.3.7 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.4 Motion on the Negative Impact of Political Violence on
Women’s Participation in Politics
7.4.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Dr. Jessie Kabwila of Malawi, seconded by Hon. Shaik Emam of South Africa. The motion outlined the strides women had made in ensuring their participation in politics, but decried the situation where, in the majority of SADC countries, women were still experiencing gender-based harassment and violence in politics.
7.4.2 In a bid to achieve gender parity in the political field, the motion called upon Member States to:-
7.4.3 Take targeted political, legal and administrative measures to deal with gender-based violence which discourages women from participating in mainstream politics;
7.4.5 Member States to take note of the negative impact of political violence to women’s political participation and educate political leaders against violence; and
7.4.6 Undertake research on how other countries are addressing political violence, including case studies from Latin American countries.
7.4.7 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.5 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Standing
Committee on Human and Social Development and Special
Programmes (HSDSP)
7.5.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Shaik Emam of South
Africa, seconded by Hon. Jasmine Toffa of Zimbabwe; and
7.5.2 The report noted that there are laws and policies on Sexual Reproductive and Health Rights that need to be reviewed in 23 countries including some in Southern Africa.
7.5.3 Parliaments need to consider the following areas:-
7.5.4 Provisions relating to the minimum age of consent to sexual activity need to be clearly spelt out in legislation. Conflicting legal systems, particularly statutory and customary laws need to be harmonised.
7.5.6 A solution needs to be found on the criminalisation of consensual sexual acts amongst adolescents, where boys end up in prison.
7.5.7 Legal gaps on the age of consent to medical treatment, including access to contraceptives, HIV counselling and testing and termination of pregnancy, should be addressed.
7.5.8 The sexual and reproductive health and rights for vulnerable adolescents and youth, like those living with disabilities, need to be enshrined in law.
7.5.9 Parliaments implementing SRHR, HIV and AIDS and
Governance Project, through the Office of the Speaker, should take the Project seriously and ensure that the activities are implemented timeously to ensure that the Forum maintains its good standing with its cooperating partners.
7.5.10 Parliamentarians are urged to advocate for the establishment and implementation of strong birth registration systems in their respective countries which will support the effective enforcement of protective legal provisions for children in health rights.
7.5.11 Member States are urged to move with speed to harmonize the dual legal systems, where they exist, to ensure the expedited elimination of child marriages.
7.5.12 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.6 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Joint Committees on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment (TIFI) and that of Food, Agriculture and Natural Resources (FANR) 7.6.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Tambudzani Mohadi of Zimbabwe, seconded by Hon. Lukamba Paulo of Angola.
7.6.2 The report focused on the energy crisis which has adversely affected the productivity and competitiveness of SADC economies. A power deficit which is attributed to inadequate investments in power generation and transmission infrastructure in the past two decades was noted.
7.6.3 To address this challenge, Member States were encouraged to pool their financial resources together for the development of hydropower from the Inga Dam, which has the capacity to meet the needs of the African Region.
7.6.4 Member States were called upon to:
7.6.5 Establish and promote cost effective tariffs which should include safety nets for the poor and disadvantaged in the region.
7.6.7 Utilise public and private partnerships as well as international financing in order to meet the high cost of investing in energy infrastructure.
7.6.8 Domesticate and implement the SADC Protocol on Energy (1996), and ensure complimentary but coherent regional visions, policies, plans, strategies, codes and standards.
7.6.9 Ensure Parliaments use relevant Portfolio Committees to exercise oversight over the energy sector including its policy and institutional framework.
7.6.10 Member States were encouraged to use Public Private
Partnerships (PPPs) as well as international financing in order to meet the high cost of investing in the energy infrastructure.
7.6.11 SADC Parliaments were urged to ensure that the relevant Portfolio Committees on energy play a greater oversight role on the sector and advocate for coherent cross-boarder regulatory policies.
7.7 Motion for the Adoption of the Report by Regional
Women’s Parliamentary Caucus (RWPC)
7.7.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Dr. Jessie Kabwila of
Malawi, seconded by Hon. Monica Mutsvangwa of Zimbabwe.
7.7.2 The motion called on Member States to review laws, policies and practices that adversely affect the rights of women and girls as they relate to statehood and citizenship. These groups are highly prone to losing their nationality due to various factors such as forced displacements and gender discrimination.
7.7.3 The Plenary Assembly resolved that:-
7.7.4 The SADC PF Secretariat and the Speakers of National Parliaments should monitor and implement the resolutions of the 38th and 39th Plenary Assemblies which highlight the need for gender balance in electoral observation missions sent by respective National Parliaments.
7.7.5 Parliaments of Malawi and Zimbabwe should be recognised for successfully launching the ‘he-for-she’ solidarity campaigns which seek to advance gender equality in society; and
7.7.6 Parliaments should monitor budgets to ensure that necessary financial and other resources are directed towards gender equality initiatives and programmes for the implementation of existing and emerging commitments.
7.8 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Committee
on Gender Equality, Women’s Advancement and Youth
Development
7.8.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Patricia Kainga of Malawi, seconded by Hon. Sikhumbuzo Ndlovu of Swaziland.
7.8.2 The motion called on Member States to grant young people and women opportunities to fully participate in national development programmes. Parliaments have a role to allocate adequate budgetary provisions to sectors that empower both women and young girls such, as education and health. Furthermore, the Committee proposed that the theme of the next SADC Plenary Assembly should focus on the youth. 7.8.3 The Committee appealed to the SADC PF Secretariat to implement the institution’s policy on gender balance in all Standing
Committees in line with a resolution made at the 39th Plenary Assembly.
Some of the countries that were violating the resolution included the
Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Seychelles and Zambia.
7.8.4 The Plenary Assembly was urged to ensure gender balance in Standing Committees in terms of Rules of Procedure.
7.8.5 Member Parliaments were urged to ensure that budgets have the necessary financial provisions and resources towards gender equality initiatives and programmes, for the implementation of existing and emerging commitments.
7.9 RESOLUTION ON THE AMMENDMENT OF THE
SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE,
12 CLAUSE 3
7.9.1 Through a waiver of Article 29 (2) of the SADC –PF Constitution which provides that any Member Parliament may submit a proposal to amend the Constitution to the Secretary- General for preliminary consideration by the Executive Committee (EXCO), it was acknowledged that at a special meeting, on Friday 11 November 2016,
EXCO agreed to waive the three months’ notice period and resolved that Clause 3 of Article 12 of the Constitution of the SADC PF be deleted and substituted with the following:-
“Members of the Executive Committee shall hold Office for a term of two years and shall retire by rotation: Provided that the former Treasurer, two Presiding Officers and two Ordinary Members, to be nominated by the Executive Committee, shall for transitional purposes, continue to hold Office for a further one year as ex-officio Members with full deliberative but no voting rights”.
7.92 The amendment was adopted.
8.0 Recommendations
Resolution | Action | Timeline | |
8.1 | Revive Negotiations on the
Transformation of the SADC PF into Legislative Body |
The Speaker of the National Assembly,
Advocate J.F. Mudenda, to engage the Minister of Foreign Affairs before the next Plenary Assembly Meeting scheduled for May/June 2017. |
01/04/ 2017 |
8.2 | Location of Parliamentary Studies Institute at University
of Zimbabwe |
The SADC Parliamentary Forum to write to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education advising them of the proposal to set the PSI at the University of Zimbabwe. | The Secretary General has since written to the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education. |
8.3 | Raise awareness on the
SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and Protecting those Already in Marriage |
Administration of Parliament to distribute copies of the Model Law to all the Legislators and conduct training programmes.
|
Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs. |
8.4 | Raise awareness on
Statelessness |
SADC PF legislators to raise awareness on the “I belong” campaign on the prevention and elimination of Statelessness by 2024. | In-time for the next Plenary Assembly. |
8.5 | Increament in Annual
Member Contribution by 10% |
The Speaker of the National Assembly to consult the Executive on the capacity of Government to absorb the 10% increament on Annual Contributions by Member States. In the meantime, the annual contribution to be maintained at the 2016/2017 level of ZAR 1, 430, 000, 00. | Before the next
Plenary (May/June) |
8.6 | Budgetary support to Public
Institutions on Citizen Registration |
Legislators to ensure adequate budgetary support is given to public institutions on citizen registration. | 2017 Budget
Allocations |
8.7 | Secretary-General’s
Residence |
The shortfall for one million Namibian dollars for the purchase of the
Secretary-General’s residence should be sourced from the Member States particularly those with outstanding contributions |
By December 2017 |
8.8 | Members of Parliament to join the ‘I belong’ campaign. | A global plan of action to end
Statelessness by 2024 spearheaded by the UNHCR |
On-going
|
8.9 | SADC Protocol on Energy
(1996) |
Portfolio Committee on Energy to make a follow-up on complementarity in regional power strategies to ensure a shared vision | Before the next
Plenary (May/June) |
9.0. Conclusion
9.1 Parliament of Zimbabwe was able to successfully host the 40th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum for the fifth time. This would not have been possible without the support of the Government of Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe Tourism Authority (ZTA),
Katswe Sisterhood and the local chapter of the United Nations Human Rights Commission (UNHCR). The Plenary Assembly created a platform to share ideas and experiences on issues that directly affect the citizens of the region and to promote regional integration. The Forum also created an opportunity for the participants to identify policies and laws that need to be ratified, particularly on the theme of the Plenary. I thank you.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, are you
standing to debate?
HON. MAJOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would want to debate in support of this motion but I stand guided because I thought that maybe the seconder would debate. I am willing and ready to debate.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may go ahead
because the seconder is not here.
HON. MAJOME: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to second this motion and support the sterling work that our Zimbabwean team members of the SADC PF are conducting while they go out to the SADC PF.
It is encouraging to hear the SADC PF and I am sure through the voices of our envoys, the Hon. Members who are here amplifying and echoing the issues that are of concern to us even here in our Parliament of Zimbabwe. I am particularly moved and commend the SADC PF for keeping the issue of ending child marriages as well as supporting those who are in child marriages on the radar. I feel particularly proud to be an Hon. Member of Parliament from where the mover of the motion on the SADC Model law on ending child marriages comes from, Hon. Innocent Gonese.
I want to first say that it is encouraging to see male Members of Parliament such as Hon. Innocent Gonese and also even the mover of the motion Hon. Dr. Mukanduri speaking and integrating into the mainstream issues of ending child and forced marriages. It looks like the future for Zimbabwe, also SADC and ultimately Africa is bright when men take responsibility to protect not only their own natural daughters but the daughters of every other parent and see the importance of protecting them against early child and forced marriages.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank the SADC PF on doing that. I also want to urge our country as Zimbabwe that us being the country and SADC member State that hosts the Member of Parliament who moved the motion in SADC PF, need to show a brighter light than everybody else in the region to make sure that the SADC Model law on ending child marriages and supporting those who are in those marriages are a reality. We do not just call it talk show and clap hands but we take those measures and implement the SADC Model law.
While I am there, I think possibly we should even stop calling them child marriages because when we do that we are euphemising a very backward and barbaric practice. Possibly, we might think of rechristening it and call it ‘juvenile marital rape’, because what these things that are being called child marriages put children in circumstances where men have sexual intercourse with them without their consent. We know that children are not capable of consenting to sexual intercourse even if they are 15 or 16 years old and even if they might consent, they do not fully appreciate the consequences and the impact is not the same. If they were given a chance to say yes or no in every sense of the word, if they had economic and educational opportunities and social protection, they would not fall prey to that and they are juveniles. So, I want to propose that it be called ‘juvenile marital rape’, because to clothe it with the cloak of marriage is to really make it decent. I hope that when we pass – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members at
the back, do not be surprised when I pick on you because I am watching you. Why do we not just lower our voices or just go outside to the lobby if you feel you need more discussion?
HON. MAJOME: I hope that Hon. Members of this august
House will unite in order to make sure that we implement and factor facets of the SADC Model law on ending child marriages and supporting those who are already in child marriages.
In that Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to urge us to quicken and strengthen our oversight role in the different Portfolio Committees that we are in. I say this because we are a country that had already adopted certain steps such as the National Gender Based Violence Strategy of 2012 to 2015 which had four key result areas that aimed at dealing with child marriage. If we were to implement that, we would go a long way. These four key result areas also are in accord with ending child marriages and supporting those who are in marriages are: -
- the prevention of early child and forced marriages and gender based violence;
- the provision of services to those who would have survived gender-based violence which is defined to include child marriages;
- the management of information, research, data collection investigations, monitoring and evaluation of all those efforts that are made to end early child and forced marriages.
- The fourth and last key result area of that national gender based violence strategy of 2012 to 2015 is that of coordinating the efforts of all those who work in those so that we have impact.
However, Mr. Speaker Sir, sadly from 2012 to 2015, the strategy expired without any visible action plan and any budget for that to happen.
It is this for reason that I call Hon. Members of Parliament in their different Portfolio Committees in health because there health services that survivors require. Those who are on the Committee on Justice, Legal Service for victims; for raping juveniles for them to be prosecuted and for damages to be found and protection orders to be found and those who are also in the Portfolio Committee on Budget and Finance to ensure that sufficient money is allocated for ending these things, also those that are in the Portfolio Committee on Education, to ensure that girls and boys are kept in schools and not married off so that there is sufficient funding for education.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I also urge Hon. Members of this august
House to ensure that the Executive fulfils the Constitution in terms of Section 76 and ensures that it provides money to ensure that basic state funded education is given to children because that is what the constitution says. Progressively accessible and affordable tertiary - education, that is what will keep the girls and boys away from what is called marriage so that our nation can develop fully.
Secondly, and lastly, I rise to also say that I am particularly encouraged by the motion that I heard was moved by my namesake from Malawi, the Hon. Jessie Kabwila in the SADC parliamentary forum that was reported by Hon. Dr. Mkanduri in his report about the motion that the SADC Parliamentary forum adopted to resolve for our Member States to take measures to remove the impediments that women in politics encounter, particularly political violence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is my hope and conviction that the only way of vaccinating against violence, that keeps women out of politics is to ensure that Zimbabwe implements Section 17 of the Constitution which requires that we shall take legislative and other measures to ensure that there shall be 50% equal representation of men and women in elected and appointed bodies. Elections include elections such as this august House.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is our duty as Parliament to ensure that the Constitution is upheld. As we go into the next election, it is imperative that in order to protect the majority of the Zimbabwean population who are women from political violence during elections we must move with speed and ensure that we effect necessary electoral reforms that makes sure that for the 2010 seats that are in this august House, at least 105 of them are occupied by women and at least 105 are occupied by men, because that is what the Constitution says - so that come 2023 when the 60 seats that are the temporary affirmative action expire, we shall make sure that at least 105 are held by women. in fact, if Parliament does its responsibility, there should be more women, that is 105 seats plus the 60 seats for women but right now, we are only at 34%.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I propose that one way of doing that is to simply reform the Electoral Act per province. What can be done in the electoral act is when the delimitating commission starts, it actually delimits, and we make provisions in the electoral act to indicate that there are certain seats we demarcate and delimit 105 seat to say these are for women. In each province, that the Zimbabwe electoral Commission goes – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I think my Hon. Colleague, Themba Mliswa forgets that among the youth are also women. The majority of the youths are women, they are not men. So, I think he should not seek to drown the fact that the majority of the youth are women.
This Parliament must ensure that before the next election, we change the Electoral Act to ensure that in delimitation, 105 seats are demarcated to women. We know that these are for women only and equally in each province and the delimitation can go further and delimit that for the next two terms certain 105 seats are for women only. After two terms, the next 10 years, they change over, those seats that would have been for women only become delimited as the seats for men and we do that as well in the local authority election.
I want to end by reminding the august House that the only place where women enjoy 50% representation in elected bodies in the country right now is the provincial councils. In terms of the Constitution, we created provincial council and introduced 50% - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - In chapter 14 of the Constitution, this Parliament created provincial councils and created a system of proportional representation., a zebra listing system where the representatives who were elected in March 2013, have equal men and women but alas, the only place where there is equal representation of men and women in terms of Section 17, has not been allowed to be. There are provincial councilors in equal numbers, but they have not taken off.
Mr. Speaker Sir, that is a travesty of injustice. They must get into office and we must emulate that 50% in the National Assembly and in the Senate, I think we will require also changes to the Traditional Leaders Act and the Electoral Act that will also ensure that women chiefs are also elected into the council of chiefs. There must be measures done, because the Constitution is clear; it requires that there shall be equal representation in all elected and appointed bodies. The
Chief’s Council is not a sacred cow, neither is the National Assembly. This Parliament has a responsibility to ensure that we do that.
Mr. speaker, that will be the only way of ensuring that the SADC Parliamentary forum resolution and motion to ensure that in SADC we shall eliminate those barriers, including violence against women because that violence only happens because of these difficulties. If there are designated seats, women do not fight each other. You are not going to see women fighting each and beating up each other for council seats for women only and parliamentary seats for women only and also to be elected to the National Council of Chiefs and to provincial Councils.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let us do our work as this Parliament so that our politics reflects the composition of Zimbabwe so that SADC as a region can achieve all its goals and be a beacon of hope across all of Africa and the world. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to appreciate Hon. Dr. Mkanduri and the Zimbabwean delegation for having attended and represented Zimbabwean Parliament in an effective, efficient and vociferous way in terms of their representation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are quite a few issues that I want to touch on. One of them is energy that was brought up by Hon. Mutsvangwa, secondly, the child marriages and the African wealths, the intra-regional trade that was brought up by Hon. Toffa. I want to then also conclude by saying where does this all come from in terms education; this is where it is all embedded. In the same vein, I would want to touch on
Africa’s wealths, Zimbabwe’s wealth in particular and Africa’s wealth in general. Aware that the first point that I spoke to and about was the 10 000 mega watts Inga dam, power generation which is sufficient for the whole of the SADC 14-Member states if optimally, effectively and efficiently utilised. On that note, I want to applaud the Zimbabwean delegation for capturing this very noble point, because for as long as there is no power, we cannot have investment, intraregional trade and free, basic, efficient and optimal education.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what I need to bring to the fore is exactly what we could do with adherence to our own Constitution. In particular, Section
38 (2) of our Constitution provides that anyone who has been resident in Zimbabwe, who was born in Zimbabwe, for a continuous 10 years, is automatically a Zimbabwean citizen. As long as we do not adhere to this, we cannot register our children at birth and so that they go to school. A lot of our children need birth certificates in order to be enrolled in schools.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to touch on issues to do with child marriages which was also discussed here. The reason why we do not have the right age for our children is because they do not have birth certificates, they are not registered. Even when the Child Registration Act provides for the registration of children within six weeks, that is 42 days after birth, this is not being adhered to. As a nation, we are viewed by the way we uphold our own Constitution. Our Constitution and our Acts of Parliament need to be aligned so that our children can be registered at birth and if not at birth, within the 42 days so that as they grow up, they are not in danger of getting married at a tender age as we will be unaware of their correct ages.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in this day and age, where we have genetically modified food, we are at risk of having our children getting married at a very young age because they are not registered, certified and do not have the requisite registration certificates. I applaud Hon. Dr. Mukanduri and his team for bringing this at the highest level in the 14-Member SADC states at that forum. We need to speak with one voice when it comes to registration of our children Mr. Speaker Sir so that we are not at risk of having child headed families.
I also want to touch on the intra-regional trade. The intra-regional trade can only come about if we adhere to the ethos and principles of our own national agenda. Our national agenda speaks in a disintegrated manner of our own wealth in our nations. If we amalgamate national development plans, we can have a powerful SADC region and ultimately, a powerful African Continent. I want to refer to notes as it relates to intra-regional trade. Africa has an abundance of natural resources.
The continent ranks number one in its reserves in chromites, cobalt, diamonds, gold, palladium and phosphates. African production accounts for 80% of the world’s platinum group of metals. For example, titanium, vanadium, zircon, 55% of chromites, 49% of palladium, 45% of vanadium and up to 55% of gold and diamonds. With such ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth, who needs Europe, who needs all other continents, who needs India or any other country?
Mr. Speaker Sir, we can emancipate ourselves using our own mineral wealth. Africa matters because global decisions have a direct impact on the continent’s development prospects, especially when it comes to regulation and climate change. We cannot isolate Africa if we need to have a climate which is globally acceptable. So, as a sleeping giant, we need to take advantage of our mineral wealth in order to advance and enhance intra-regional trade. Mr. Speaker Sir, this should be the reason why, not only SADC but Africa matters. As richly endowed with mineral wealth as it is, the continent should not be a final destination of aid.
Finally, I will touch on why we should not shy away from our
God-given resources, in particular, gold. It is a panacea…
Hon. Nduna having been speaking to the gallery.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, address
the Chair.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am indebted to you and I will not digress from concentrating on you. I will concentrate on you Mr. Speaker Sir, you alone going forward. From Genesis through to Revelation, the Bible refers to gold more than 783 times, so we should not shy away from such issues as gold. I speak to and about the issues of artisanal mining here, but here is Hon. Dr. Mukanduri and his team going to talk of that in an elongated manner for intra-regional trade in the SADC protocol that they attended.
The first issue, gold is good and it is there in Genesis 2:12. The second thing, gold is tested by fire, that is 1Corinthians 3:12. Thirdly, gold is a sign of power and the continent is powerful and throughout history, the ruling class has always sought to own gold and silver. Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say, as they concentrate on Africa, let Africa not forget to concentrate on itself in order to enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of regional trade so that we can be powerful and export our God-given gold mineral wealth to enhance our economies.
Fourthly, Mr. Speaker Sir, God has given us the power to be stewards over the gold and the silver which is his. Why do we shy away from owning our own God given golden mineral wealth?
As I conclude, I want to say that all the issues that have been raised in that report can only come to fruition if we self-introspect in terms of our wealth and in terms of what it is that we can do with what we have got. If it was by my thinking, by today we should have gold coins in Zimbabwe because they are globally acceptable and a well sought after commodity. All that can enhance our economy and then we can talk of education, health and empowering women.
If you empower a woman, you empower a nation. What men can do women can do better. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Mr.
Speaker Sir, the word ‘women’ is derived from one ‘man’. It means multiple men, ‘we men’. We should not shy away from the fairer sex. It has been enshrined and it is contained in that report that we should effectively concentrate on empowering our women, aware that the Constitution of Zimbabwe is giving 60 women representation up to year
It is prudent for those women parliamentarians that have come through on the power of the Constitution to lobby their male counterparts who are me and the others to make sure that that becomes an open ended section in the Constitution which is not limited.
Otherwise in 2013, we will not be having these women. This is the time to be lobbying for an amendment in the Constitution so that we can always have them in the House.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it has never been easy for women. I want it put on record today that me and the other rightful thinking male counterparts are going to move and push the gender agenda and make sure that women are empowered. Without a woman, who would want to live in this world? I thank you.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I stand to
support the report which was read by Hon. Mukanduri. Looking at the work that was done by the Committee that went on our behalf to the SADC Parliamentary Forum, I am happy that they are looking at challenges that we are facing in SADC, especially gender based violence. In this country, the issue of gender based violence is not given much precedence. If we do not look at that properly, our GDP will not grow. This is because money that is being wasted when people get hurt in violence is a lot. Firstly, that person does not go to work because she was affected. Secondly, one of them in that home will not go to any work because they have to look after someone who is not well.
So, it is affecting a lot of people. Even if it is in the field, our produce will be low and Government is expected to give them money. The hospitals that they visit, there are charges that are supposed to be paid. The Government is not yet in a position to pay for them but those who go through the police, the Government pay and it is money being wasted. Those people who are affected, many of them are found to be HIV positive. This is because many women who are involved in gender violence are forced into having sexual intercourse.
So, you find that they will be affected by HIV and through gender violence you find that the number of people who are affected with AIDS grows. There are certain issues that the Government is not looking at when it comes to gender violence. There are no places to shelter these people who are affected by gender violence which we call safe houses. The Government is not putting money aside to construct safe houses where those people who are affected by gender violence go. We only have Musasa which has safe houses here and there. If you look at our wards which are over 1 900, there are very few wards that have these safe houses.
The Government should make sure that each and every ward has a safe house where these people who are affected run to. This is what we want our Government, through the report from SADC that they should look at that. What we are saying is that people should not be beaten all the time because they do not have anywhere to go. If they go back to where they came from, they will say go back because you are now a married person. But, if there are safe houses, it means that the people will have places to go whilst counselling is going on so that the husband should understand that a wife or a child are not punching bags.
So, I am grateful for this report which was brought in by Hon. Mukanduri and his delegation. They also touched on child marriages especially here in Zimbabwe. They also touched on the alignment of laws to the Constitution, but that does not hinder us to prosecute the people who are perpetrating child marriages because the Constitution is supreme. The issue of child marriages is troubling people because when we went around this country being headed by SADC PF, it was found that in this country, a lot of children in this country are being married whilst they are still young because of poverty, lack of education and also lack of food.
We were told that there are certain areas where children are being fed on GMO food and their bodies grow big, but they will not be mature. We were really troubled because if those people have big bodies, they will not vote, but when it comes to marriage, they are saying what do you want that person to do because when you look at the person, their bodies show that they are grown up. Also this issue of identity documents like birth certificates, there are a lot of challenges that people face when they want to take birth certificates.
So, we are saying all these impediments should be removed so that children would have birth certificates on point of birth, whether in hospital or out of hospital, they should be issued with birth certificates so that we know the proper age of children. This is hindering a lot of issues, especially when it comes to courts and people say their child is young when something has happened and it becomes a challenge. When people bribe their children, parents will lie because there is no proof to show the proper age of the child, which is 18 years. We are very happy because SADC PF is working very hard. It brought up a SADC Model law and now they are bringing up motions so that when member states go back to their countries, they advocate for the same issues and make sure people get assistance in their countries. So, this issue of child marriages is something to be taken seriously.
We know that all these men are proud to be going out with young children and that is very painful to us. These men should respect the fact that these children are young, especially the well dressed men who are the ones who go and park their cars near schools so that the children, because they are poor, are easily enticed to come to their cars. The poor children will not have seen cars and they are given biscuits and sweets before they are sexually abused in the cars which these men turn into bedrooms. I am pleading with this House, through Hon. Dr.
Mukanduri’s report and Hon. Nduna’s contribution for all of us to remember that we all have girl children in our homes. Would we like to see our children abused and impregnated then forced to terminate the pregnancy before being chased away. That is a very painful issue. I think as this House, we should fight together when it comes to child marriages so that when we come across old men taking these young girls into their cars, we should report them to the police. We encourage the lawyers in this House to help us amend the existing law and make sure it is written down that any old man seen going out with a young girl should be incarcerated for life .
I also want to say that we are waiting for another report that will soon come out after our public hearings on child marriages. I do not want to pre-empt the report but I just want to urge every Hon Member in this House to open our eyes wide to ensure that the children in our constituencies are not being abused by old men and not being taken advantage of because of poverty. The poverty will not go away because if the young girls do not finish school, they will bear a lot of children and poverty will prevail amongst the women.
I also want to applaud this delegation which went around and brought this report. I want to support what Hon. Majome said on the issue of chiefs, that they should be given the same platform. You find that we only have four female chiefs in this country but if you go into the Senate, there is no female chief in there. When we come to election time, these women are bribed and given dresses and are told that they should not vie to come to Parliament because they do not have any business there. It is because they are poor that they end up receiving those gifts. So when elections come, they will refuse the positions saying that they are not competent enough because they will have been confused by the bribes that they get. We are pleading with the Gender Commission to do its work and ensure that all the people who do not follow the Constitution should be convicted and prosecuted. We want to see women chiefs in the next elections and even in the Chief’s Council, we want to see women there. The Gender Commission’s work does not just end with the female chiefs. Even here in Parliament, if we look at the proportional representation, we thought it was proper for us to have 60 women but we shot ourselves in the foot because now the 50/50 representation is not being recognised. We cannot have the constituencies that we want. The 60 representation does not add up to the constituencies that we want. During COPAC days, we travelled a lot when we wanted the lives of women to be uplifted. Come 2018 elections, we want the 105 constituencies plus the 60 so that in 2023, we will have achieved equal representation. We do not want a scenario where when the 60 facility comes to an end, we see ourselves having only 16 women in this House. Let us not be hoodwinked by this 60 as it does not add up to 50/50, which only comes out with 105 constituencies. We should get into the constituencies and rule in there. We want to get into constituencies without asking permission from anyone. I want to get into my own constituency as a woman and engage in various programmes freely. I have my own constituency but it does not add up to the 50/50 representation. Men should not be afraid of women. We are not taking away your constituencies but it is in the Constitution. It is not about Nyamupinga or women. We want 50/50 in 2023 and Hon. Majome should assist us with the legal side of things and let us know if we should approach the Constitutional Court if we are not given the 105 constituencies.
Before I sit down, I want to thank Hon. Mukanduri’s delegation for the work that they did and would also like to encourage this House, all the honourable blackmen and Hon. Chibaya to fight for 105 constituencies to be given to women. We want you to leave a legacy. Even you Mr. Speaker, you would want to go down in the Guinness Book of Records that you were also involved in the fight for women to get their rights to be given 105 constituencies in 2018. I want to thank Hon. Dr. Mukanduri because you are fighting for the rights of women. If there is a man who is not progressive, I think you should leave them. They are sick and need attention because it is the rights of women. I thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of privilege. I rise on a very important extraordinary matter of national importance particularly if we have regard to Section 119 of the Constitution which speaks to the ability and cogence of Parliament intervening to uphold the Constitution of the Republic. I am saying this in connection with Section 23 of the Constitution and also Section 84 (1). I may read so that I motivate my point of privilege in terms of Standing Order 68 (d) because it is a very important intervention. It says “Rights of Veterans of the Liberation
Struggle; (1) Veterans of the liberation struggle, that is to say-
- those who fought in the War of Liberation;
- those who assisted the fighters in the War of Liberation; and
- those who were imprisoned, detained or restricted for political reasons during the liberation struggle; are entitled to due recognition for their contribution to the liberation of Zimbabwe, and to suitable welfare such as pensions and access to basic health care”.
I am saying this because it has arisen during the subsistence of this parliamentary debate and I would have raised it earlier that one of our war veterans, Dickson Chingaira, also known as Cde Chinx has been conferred as a liberation hero. It is within our power as Parliament to then intervene and make sure because we are supposed to uphold the Constitution in terms of Section 119. We are supposed to intervene and say as far as we are concerned as Parliament, it is our sincere position that Cde Chinx is supposed to be a national hero as opposed to a liberation war hero –[HON. MEMBERS; Hear, hear.] -This is not about parties, this is not about individual considerations but it is about the Parliament of Zimbabwe coming to stand up to defend those who fought during the liberation struggle and those who sacrificed a lot during the liberation struggle.
As Parliament, we must take our stance to defend the Constitution against any other consideration because Cde Chinx contributed in song, conscientisation and mobilising the people during the liberation struggle. We should not undermine the role that was played by our revolutionaries. For that reason, I kindly move that Parliament consider this matter because Friday is a day of sitting. So, may we take tomorrow as a day of sitting to sit and consider this aspect on Cde Chinx and convey a national heroes status on Cde Chinx. This is a suggestion and recommendation I am giving. It is not for debate.
I have raised it as a matter of privilege and I need the ruling of the Speaker because it is not supposed to be for debate. I want to thank you very much. I am just placing it. If we do not agree with it, let the
Speaker then so rule. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: In respect of what Hon. Adv.
Chamisa has tabled just now, I will study the matter and make a ruling in a few days.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I would also want to add my voice to
Hon. Dr. Mukanduri’s SADC Parliamentary Forum Report. First and foremost, I would like to make a resolution that as Zimbabwe we should help move SADC Parliamentary Forum to be a Parliament. The moment that motion is moved for SADC PF to be a Parliament, it will give it teeth to bite. At the moment, they are just a Parliamentary Forum and those recommendations can never be taken seriously by any Government because they are not recognised as a Parliament. I think it is time for Zimbabwe and the other 13 SADC countries to put their heads together and turn it into a Parliament. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to recommend to your humble office if you can move that agenda on behalf of Zimbabwe to show how serious we are in recognising the work that is being done by SADC PF.
Coming to the issues that were raised by Hon. Dr. Mukanduri on the SADC PF motions, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is so shocking to learn that a child is a woman when it comes to sex but when it comes to voting that child is a minor. What is it that men are benefiting from these children because as women we are giving birth to these children which were sired by the men? If they are not respecting those children, I think the time has come as women to do what we call citizen arrest. It is painful to carry a pregnancy for nine months and have a caesarian section and then a simple man with a black suit which when he stands next to the fire that suit will burn, he goes and abuse that child. As women, the time has come. If the Police are not doing the work for us; women let us stand up and arrest these men on our own – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Talking of the child Mr. Speaker Sir, we are talking of guarding against child marriages. However, there is one area that is so silent that we are not looking at as Government, that is, the issue of the impact of a young child falling pregnant and the repercussions of falling pregnant.
They get what we call fistula. I have been searching high and low in terms of our Government dealing with the issue of fistula. The only thing that I have found is international organisations (NGOs) that come to this country offering treatment of fistula. So, that is one area of coverage that Government and the Minister of Health and Child Care should look at seriously. Fistula should be free of charge in any hospital because this is a 13 year old child who has got fistula.
Talking about the issue of the 50% representation of this girl child, in 1980 we were told that the girl child cannot go to school. Her role is to be at home, cook and look after the sick. We fought so hard for this child to go to school. Eventually, they were allowed to go into universities with lower points and men told us that our children are going through pipes to get to the university. So, this ‘baccosi’ thing is not an issue as far as we are concerned as women. It is a way of shielding themselves, stopping us taking our role as women.
Today, we have got the girl child who is now a doctor or a scientist. That was the hard work of the women of this country. We are saying once again Mr. Speaker, the time has come for political parties to recognise the importance of the 50% agenda – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] - All the high ranking positions are held by men in most of our political parties. We should lead by example. Let the 50% agenda start from our political parties. By so doing, everything becomes automatic but our greatest challenge is the man that we cannot live without who is denying us that. The same man uses us to campaign for him. When we are done campaigning and being take aways, we are dumped – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We are saying no to that Mr. Speaker Sir. Let it be mandatory to respect the 50% agenda.
We have a challenge again on the child marriages and women gender based violence through the cultural norms. Cultures are talking of ‘ngozi’ in Shona, ‘ingozi’in Ndebele where we are told that in order to get rid of that ‘ngozi’, you have to send a girl child who is about seven years old to that family where the man committed the crime. We sacrifice our girl child to become a wife at seven. So, there is need for our chiefs; the Chiefs Council needs to sit down and work on this issue of ‘kuripa ngozi’ using the girl child. Who decided that it has to be a girl? Why not a boy child? Why is it always that the girl child has got to be used ‘kuripa ngozi?’ For what? Somebody was killed whether male or female and you want a replacement. Why do you not replace with boys? Why is it that replacement is only done using girls? That must come to an end Mr. Speaker Sir. We need everybody here to put our heads together to deal with that issue.
We have a huge challenge as a country. Beautiful laws are promulgated – protocols, conventions, et cetera. The sad thing is that as a country we take so long to domesticate those laws. They pass through this Parliament and they end up in file 13. I think there is need for us to have a constitutional amendment where all conventions and protocols signed by member states wherever they are, must automatically be domesticated. That way, it is easier for us to do our oversight role in the implementation.
As we are sitting here, we have a challenge of the implementation of these beautiful laws for women. A very good example Mr. Speaker on the implementation of laws is the issue of rape. In this country when one is raped, they do whatever investigations and DNA testing to find the specimen of the rapist. Sadly, the results of that specimen is put together with evidence of other criminal offences like meat, skins, marijuana and that DNA test becomes contaminated. These men know this, so when he goes to court he denies the rape and demands another test knowing that the DNA has been contaminated. The time has come that as a country we respect the women and accord them the rightful opportunity for their cases of rape to be heard.
Talking of violence Mr. Speaker, political violence is perpetrated against women, especially when it comes to elections. We are raped and society judges us. We become outcasts because rape is an embarrassing thing to a family, especially to the men. However, we are raped by the same men that are marrying us. So, we are saying no to political violence, especially using rape as a tool to stop women participating in political activities, married or not. If we ask male Hon. Members to raise their hands, those that have their women in positions within their parties or within the ZANU PF or MDC Party – they come to meetings on their own and then go and pick up this girl child to use as a take away and keep his wife at home safe.
Mr. Speaker, this is the 21st century. I heard some Hon. Members calling us ‘baccosi.’ We are happy to be called ‘baccosi’ because we have made an impact. You would never call us names if we did not make an impact, never – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – You are always called names if you have made an impact. That means to say what we are talking about is hurting them. What I am asking you Hon. Members, the male ones, if you cannot beat them, join them. The time for you to join us is now because we are here and we are here to stay.
The idea that as women we cannot participate in politics because we are not economically empowered, I will give it a different dimension Mr. Speaker. The same women that you are saying are not good to take up leadership positions, the same women that you are raping, the same girl child that you are using to go and beat up people on your behalf for you to get into power, go there with nothing. All what they do to them is giving them intoxicating alcohol or drugs to influence them to beat up people. Basically what we are saying is, there is no resource used. The only resource that is being used is our bodies – our feet, eyes and hands. So ladies, 2018 is our year – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Come 2018, every single woman from ZANU PF, MDC, Ndonga, et cetera, our problems are the same. Our goal is 105 seats. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, this debate is very exciting as there is division here between men and women but we are married, stay together and have children but we fight when it comes to certain issues. Men and women are one because Zimbabwe cannot be built by men only or women only.
I want to talk about the issue of statelessness. Statelessness is when a person lives without any documentation to show their places of origin. I think this is affecting the whole country as we have refugees from Ethiopia, Somalia, Mozambique and other neighbouring countries and they are taking refuge in Zimbabwe. They will not be in possession of any identification particulars when they come to Zimbabwe and they cannot be issued with such in Zimbabwe. When they return to their countries, they are strangers because they would have left a long time ago. So they live in a state of being stateless and will be in trouble.
When you go to Tongogara Camp you find that there are a lot of refugees and if you bring them to Harare, they do not have any identification particulars. In the event that they are repatriated, they cannot convince their authorities that they are valid nationals of those countries. They cannot travel to other continents like Europe when they are in Zimbabwe because they do not have any identification particulars, hence they are not free to travel. I think those matters should be looked at, not only in SADC but worldwide. When those people are raped and they go to court, supposedly they are underage; they do not have birth certificates to prove their ages. At times they do not even know their names when they are taken to court, so it is really a challenge. These are the challenges that are caused by being stateless. I think this should be looked into.
In Zimbabwe we also have people like that now because of the scourge of HIV and Aids that can kill both parents and surviving relatives will refuse to assist the orphans in obtaining identification particulars. The orphans just live being troubled and when they are raped, they cannot stand for their rights. They also cannot tell their ages or places of origin because there is no documentation. So these laws should be amended because for one to be orphaned and not be in possession of identification particulars is very difficult. When they try to migrate to other countries they are often referred to as aliens even when they are born in those countries and want to attain citizenship, they have to pay when they are so poor and cannot even afford to buy their own food. I think we should look at our laws even here in Zimbabwe. I have witnessed that children like these have difficult times in courts when they do not have requisite identification particulars.
This also leads to early child marriages and abuse by both men and women. This issue of marrying young people is not only being perpetrated by men but even women are violating the rights of men to the extent of raping and sexually abusing them. Their sperms are taken to South Africa for ritual purposes. I think you have read of rampant sexual abuse of men by women in newspapers. We should not be one sided but look at both sides of the coin because the country is similar to the body with various parts. There is no body part that is more important than the other. So when we are looking at the law, we should look at both sides of the coin.
It is very true when women were complaining that their rights are being violated. We should have more women in Parliament. There is a term that was used by the Hon. Member that we are saying ‘bacossi’, we are not saying that. We are saying all people are important but when it comes to this quota issue, we should not look at just adding numbers when those people are not adding any value. When we say women should come to Parliament, we should look at their contribution, because if we put 400 women here - they should not spend the whole year here without tabling any motions. They just come here to warm the benches, not different from the women we have left in our rural areas – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order I will give you more time to defend yourselves – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
*HON. T. KHUMALO: Mr. Speaker, may the Hon. Member withdraw the statement that we come here to warm the benches when the wives they have left home are doing much better. Even here, there are male Members of Parliament who spend many years here without tabling a motion but spend most of their time in hotel rooms sleeping with our daughters. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order if I have
given you a chance to talk please you do not have to continue when I say order. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – * Alright, alright, I will give you more time to defend yourselves.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for your protection and allowing me to debate. I was reflecting on when people were reading
the Hansard. I did not say women only but that if you agree for people to come into Parliament in order for us to have 50/50 representation.
Even when it is men – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
ladies please, enough is enough. We have heard your objection and concerns but let us do to a limit – [HON. MEMBERS: He should withdraw the statement!] – Order, order, I do not see any reason why – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order Hon.
ladies, I do not see any reason why if you feel you have been offended, you stand up and defend yourselves – that is a fair debate. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You may continue Hon.
Member.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, if only people would listen to what I am saying, it was going to help us in the future. If we look at the law which is in place that people should come to Parliament representing people, if we would take the academia, the engineers and other different professionals, we would add value to our Parliament since it would be comprised of professionals. These would help the women who are in the rural areas. This is what I am trying to explain.
Even if there was a special group of men comprising also of different disciplines so that when we debate about health issues, we would be having professionals in the health field to assist. If it is about education, there will be also veterans in that field. Even when matters arise that need lawyers, they will be available. So, when we stand to debate, we will be having experts in different areas. This is what I wanted to say, I was not saying that these people should not come in but I was looking at value addition, that we should add value in Parliament so that our debates would be exciting. When we want to add 60 people, if that group consists of professionals - say maybe in mining that would be good, so that when we go astray, they would help us.
Looking at that, Mr. Speaker, I am talking about tuberculosis and HIV/AIDS. I think this issue has destroyed so many of our professionals and has consumed a lot of money. There should be enough funding reserved for those diseases and preventative measures should be put in place. In the rural areas, a lot of children learn from the barns where tobacco is treated and tobacco can also cause tuberculosis. So issues like these should be looked into. Even some of the houses that people live in rural areas also contribute to the spread of tuberculosis; we should have standard houses in the rural areas which are well ventilated.
On the issue of HIV, looking at areas like prisons, I think there should be laws that people be tested before they are brought into the cells. Some of the inmates come with diseases and spreads them to their colleagues, hence the increase of HIV in prisons. Many people who go to jail, sometimes they would be HIV negative but by the time they are released they will be testing HIV positive. So, I think the SADC countries should have a law pertaining to that. Condoms should be distributed in our prisons to avoid the spread of HIV.
Again, you will find that our prisons cells are not well ventilated, so if a person has tuberculosis, it will spread quickly to other inmates. So, they should help us to curb the spread of these diseases. If people come out of the jails affected with tuberculosis, they will also pass it on to their families. So, the SADC Parliament or even the whole world should look into that matter and put proper measures in place to curb the spread of tuberculosis.
Our mines also should be well ventilated so that people who get in should not breathe the gases that emanate from there because people are getting tuberculosis from there. There should be regional standards when it comes to mining, that these mines are well ventilated so that they do not get tuberculosis. A law should be put in place, because people use mercury; when you burn it, it emits some gases and affects the liver and countries in SADC should look into that. Illegal gold panning is very rampant in Africa
Coming back to the issue of women’s participation in politics, it is a very good idea, though women should support each other. Women always say men do not support us, when a man stands during election time, the challenge that we have is that we have a lot of talk which denigrates women. I think you should accept one another as women, because women look down upon themselves. So, if women want better positions in politics, they should uplift one another so that they get the positions that they are crying for. Women should improve their level of education; even men are also going to school so that they get good positions.
I have come across a woman who was bandaged, her name was Robinson. She was beaten through political violence, so the political parties should rally against political violence. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the support that I was given by women when I was debating.
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th July, 2017
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, I had requested that
Parliament sit tomorrow for purposes of considering this important business, I know that you have said you need days but I have since consulted and I am sure you are also consulting. This is my request and I have put it on the table that Parliament sits tomorrow just to consider the importance of a Hero who has passed on, whom we are supposed to give due regard. I beg you, I am not opposing the adjournment of the House but I am suggesting that we come back tomorrow to transact this very important business because Friday is a business day for purposes of
Parliament – [HON. T. KHUMALO: Chanting a song.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Khumalo!
We made a ruling in this House that anyone found singing in this House will be asked to leave the Chamber.
Hon. Gonese having stood up to speak was asked to approach the
Chair.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE HON. RUNGANI: I move that the House do now adjourn.
HON. CHIBAGU: I second.
HON. GONESE: There is debate Mr. Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am allowed to debate the adjournment of the House. I am debating the adjournment of the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, it should not be about
my ruling. It has nothing to do with my ruling.
HON. GONESE: When there is…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I can only allow
you to debate on other issues, my ruling stands.
HON. GONESE: But you do not know. You cannot preempt – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – seriously. Mr. Speaker Sir, any adjournment of the House can be debated.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: My ruling stands. No, if I
made a ruling, it stands.
HON. GONESE: I think it is important Mr. Speaker, to follow procedures. At this point in time, you asked, ‘is there any debate,’ I stood up to debate the adjournment which has…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You can carry on with your
debate.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much for your indulgence Mr.
Speaker Sir. The reason why I stood up is because, at this point in time, there is an important matter which was raised. The matter relates to an issue of national importance. When it was raised, there was reference to provisions of the Constitution which were made and our Constitution is the supreme law of this land.
For that reason, the people of Zimbabwe are looking upon us to discuss and deliberate on matters of such national importance. Our
Standing Orders, in their wisdom, allow, in terms of Standing Order Number 68, Members of Parliament are allowed to raise motions without notice and there are two motions which can be raised without notice. Firstly, it is a motion for adjournment of a debate and also a motion on a matter of privilege. You do not give notice, you just rise and if you believe that you have an important matter you raise it.
I believe that before we can accede to the request for adjournment, we have to dispose of that important business first so that we, in this august House are cognisant and aware of where we are proceeding to.
As a result Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe that it is inopportune to adjourn the House at this particular point in time. It is more appropriate for us to know whether we can have – if we adjourn to the 11th of July for example, those matters will have been overtaken by events. They will be redundant and you cannot then come and debate an issue on the 11th of July of someone who has already been buried.
As an institution, we are supposed to make a statement, in accordance with the motion which was already moved on a matter of privilege that, this debate, for it to have any relevance must be done tomorrow. That is the reason why we wanted to have a pronouncement as to where we stand before we can agree or disagree with the motion to adjourn the House. So, we cannot accede to…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I will not allow you to continue…
HON. GONESE: No, but I need to adumbrate the point. It is important for me to adumbrate the point so that all members including the Chair…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you just take your seat.
HON. GONESE: But the Chair must appreciate where I am coming from.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have heard you.
HON. GONESE: I am just adumbrating the point so that before we can accede to the motion by Hon. Deputy Chief Whip to adjourn the House, we need to know from the perspective of the Chair. In our view, we have got a national hero.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, let me make a
decision.
HON. GONESE: I want to wind up Hon. Speaker but if you are interrupting me, how do I finish? I want to finish now and I am just coming to the conclusion. I cannot finish until such time as you allow me to do so. I think I need to make a point now as to why I am making these submissions – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am winding up Hon. Speaker, there is no meaning as to how long I will take when I am responding. Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of our Standing Orders, I am actually allowed to speak for 20 minutes and that is when the amber light comes. I have not reached that stage. The Clerks-AtThe-Table, if I have exceeded the time, will light the amber light. I have not yet reached the time limit; there is no amber light yet.
I was just trying to clarify the reason why we are raising this matter of national importance. The view of the majority of
Zimbabweans; if any one of us here takes time to check the sentiments which are coming out on social media, in the press – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – but I have not exceeded my time Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Do not abuse the time, you can wind up.
HON. GONESE: If you allow me to just wind up, then we save more time. I will abide by your ruling Mr. Speaker, if Hon. Members can allow me to wind up properly. I am now kindly requesting the Hon. Speaker to respond to the issue raised by the Hon. Member before we adjourn. If we adjourn before that ruling is made, it will be made redundant. I rest my case Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Normally, when I make a
decision - I made a ruling and my ruling stands.
The House adjourned at Twenty Three Minutes Past Four o’clock
p.m. until 27th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 21stJune, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the
presence in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the delegation from Swaziland, Hon. Titus Thwala, leader of the delegation, Hon. Sikhumbuzo Dlamini and Mr. Mpendulo Ngcamphalala, you are most welcome – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
OPEN LEARNING CENTRE CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOPS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to remind the House
that the Open Learning Centre is inviting Chairpersons of Committees to two half day capacity building workshops on Friday, 23rd and Monday,
26th June, 2017 at Meikles Hotel, Mirabelle Room, from 0800 hours to 1400 hours on each day. Lunch and refreshments will be provided.
TABLING OF REPORTS
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Madam
Speaker, in terms of Section 12 (1) of the Audit Office Act [Chapter 22: 18], I lay upon the table the reports of the Auditor-General for the year ended December 31, 2016 being: -
- Narrative report on Appropriate Accounts, Finance Accounts,
Revenue Statements and Fund accounts;
- Narrative report on State Enterprises and Parastatals; and
- Narrative report on Local Authorities, Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
Thank you.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have a list of Members of Parliament and Ministers who sent in their apologies; Hon A. Ndhlovu; Hon. Dr.
Mpofu; Hon. VP. E. Mnangangwa; Hon. VP. Mphoko; Hon. Chinamasa;
Hon. Kasukuwere; Hon. S. Nyoni; Hon. D. Parirenyatwa; Hon. Bimha;
Hon. Prof. J. Moyo; Hon. Muchinguri; Hon. S. K. Moyo; Hon. J. D.
Hungwe and Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to just give a motion on a point of privilege for Hon. Members to note that there is now available tea and coffee machine for their use in the Members Bar that was not there before. It is especially made for female Hon. Members who might not visit the bar because they might not know it and it is at a cost. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. My concern and the reason why I am rising is that whilst I commend those Hon. Ministers who have indicated that they are not able to attend today’s session and that is an improvement from the past practice where there was simply no recognition that this is an important occasion in terms of our Constitution Section 107 as read in conjunction with our Standing Orders Number 63 and 26.
My worry is that for the second week running, last week we had a situation where an organ of a political party had its sitting last week and we did not raise any concern because we appreciate it that they have some important business to transact. Our concern is that for the second Wednesday in a row, we are now having a situation where the Ministers who have given their apologies are actually attending a meeting of an organ of a political party. If we are to follow the dictates of our Constitution, we must prioritise matters of the State over matters of a political party.
In our Constitution, we made special provision that all Ministers, Vice Presidents and Deputy Ministers must avail themselves to answer questions coming from Members of Parliament and it is enshrined in our supreme law or Bible, so to speak, in so far as the nation is concerned.
We strengthened that position in the Constitution by adding in the
Standing Orders in terms of Standing Order Number 26 that any
Minister who fails to attend Parliament in order to answer questions is in contempt of Parliament. I get very concerned and worried that we do not take this seriously.
Today, if you look on your right Madam Speaker, there are very few Ministers because some of them are attending that meeting. I have said before and I will repeat it – it is important for all political parties especially those from where the Ministers are coming to schedule their meetings on a day which is not a Wednesday. We have got the whole weekend where they can transact the business which they failed to finish last week. We want to place it on record that this is not acceptable and again we have a scenario where the Vice President is not here who is
Leader of the House. He has not designated any other Minister to be the Acting Leader of the House. The person who sometimes acts as Leader of the House, Hon. Chinamasa is also not available because he is attending the same Politburo meeting. So, when we have got matters of policy which Hon. Members representing their constituencies want to put to Hon. Ministers, they have no one to ask.
In order to indicate our displeasure at their conduct, we must do something as this august House. I will actually ask all Hon. Members that perhaps we may have to resort to a situation where we defer
Question Time so as to indicate our displeasure at this course of conduct.
The timing is very poor because in terms of the sitting calendar Madam Speaker, we are actually supposed to be adjourning Parliament today for the next two weeks. In other words, if there are pertinent questions which Members wanted to ask, they would have been overtaken by events. I think that the timing is particularly very bad. For that reason, I want to emphasise that it is not appropriate for the political party in question to show its disdain for matters of State and put matters of their party ahead matters of the State. Those are my submissions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. All the
points you made are very much valid. As the Chair, I am as well worried that on my right I was expecting Ministers even those who are not in the Politburo but I think as a House, someone was suggesting a proposal and we can agree on such a proposal.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: There are many Hon. Members who
are capable of being Ministers who are on the other side in the ruling party but they are here because there are some who are holding on to those posts. As Parliament, to show that we are serious and that we were voted in by people, I think we should note down the names of the Ministers who did not send any apologies and we charge them so that they can pay a fine of contempt of Parliament. They will know that as the Chair sitting there, you have a right to lead this House. It is my suggestion that the Clerk should compile the names of the Ministers who did not put any apologies so that they can be charged and then we send the ruling to the President because they are not doing their work properly. We can confiscate their cars or office keys to show our disgruntlement.
Hon. Dr. Made comes each and every week and he is punctual. We really respect that. I think we should come up with a resolution as Parliament that those Ministers who do not send their apologies we should charge them with contempt of Parliament for looking down upon this House.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those are the ideas coming from Hon. Chamisa that we should compile a list of Hon. Ministers who are absent without leave. I am still consulting on that proposal. I urge Hon. Members to direct their questions to those Ministers who are present.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Madam
Speaker. I am not taking away what Hon. Chamisa has indicated as a proposal, which you said you are consulting on. So, that remains on the table and we are supporting that. However, I just think that as Hon. Gonese had raised, we need to take a position as Parliament to indicate that we are actually quite unhappy because when we continuously go on with the programme, we legitimize this kind of behavior. So, we need to take a stand where we say if they are not willing to come and unfortunately those that have come would have to also be taken on the basis of others. We just do not ask questions. We have got a whole agenda that is there; we have motions. We can defer Question Time and do Question Time when they are here. That is my proposal Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I know you
need to see Cabinet Ministers but according to the Constitution, the Deputy Minister is also a Minister. We can have questions posed to the Deputy Ministers and they will respond. I think we can proceed because there are so many Deputy Ministers and Ministers. We can go ahead.
However, I take the issue of listing down.
Hon. Members according to the Chair, I think we can proceed with questions to those Ministers who are present because I am being advised that among the Ministers, there are some answers from other Ministers.
We can proceed with questions to those Ministers who are here.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have not recognised you
Hon. Member – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. MATUKE: Madam Speaker, I think you have already
made a ruling. For a Vice President from the opposition to come and challenge your ruling, I think it is not fair. So, I am proposing that we proceed with Questions Without Notice.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am
actually just rising to support you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can we have
order.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, I rise to thank you for the ruling that you have made that we proceed with the Ministers who are here present. I am also happy to realise that you have said we should take down the names of the Ministers who are not here present so that they are charged for contempt of Parliament. I want to thank you and I hope the Clerk is compiling.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, Hon. Made. Maize is being taken to GMB and we are hearing that there is a lot of moisture content and the maize is being returned. After it has been returned, it is being sold on the black market and it is not finding its way to GMB. What plans do you have that the grain will not end up in the hands of unscrupulous people?
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):
Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking such a pertinent question. It gives me a chance to explain to our farmers so that the nation at large can understand. We take our maize to GMB with moisture content of 12.5%. This season, we see that most farmers grew long season varieties and because of the incessant rains, the grain has not dried completely. Why I thank the Hon. Member is that she said when the farmers go back, they sell to other buyers whom we are afraid will bring the same grain to GMB and would short change the farmer. So, I am going back to investigate this issue with GMB. There are times when we say 12 and a half to 13% moisture content but our fear is that if we have a lot of grain with that moisture content of 13%, it will rot in our granaries. So we want to look at the grain that is going for milling and waiver the 12.5%. We also do not want the Grain Marketing Board to pay for the moisture weight or excess moisture; we should have a good balance on that. I plead that you give me time to go and investigate then I will bring an exact answer to the august House. Thank you.
*HON. MLISWA: Before people harvested it was said that there were collection points and driers to be erected. If driers are there, why are they not being used? At the collection points, why do the GMB officers not go to collection points to collect samples of whether or not the moisture content is right instead of having people ferry their grain to the GMB only to be returned? There was mention of a collection point in the driers, is there anything like that?
*HON. DR. MADE: Thank you Hon. Mliswa for that question. All that has been mentioned is in plan. These are places where farmers are but some of the driers were not functioning and are being resuscitated especially those in the A1 and A2 areas. Like I stated before, this year’s harvest irrespective of whether it is from A1 or A2, countrywide we have maize that has completely dried. I agree with him that farmers should not take their grain to GMB to wait in long queues especially those who want to store their grain in silos. It would be proper for it to be collected and tested. I am saying the GMB should disburse sacks to farmers in time for them to store their grain for ease of transportation.
On collection points, I said that samples should be collected from there. I concur with his suggestion so that farmers do not waste time travelling only to be turned away.
*HON. MURAI: Do you not have a department which teaches new farmers of when to harvest instead of them to harvest maize that is not ripe for harvest? You should know these are new farmers so they need training on when to harvest matured crop. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order now you are
making noise. The Hon. Minister is responding to the question.
*HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon.
Member for his question. There are a lot of things that a farmer takes into consideration in growing his crop. Once his harvest is ripe, most farmers will be afraid of veld fires. We have had police reports that some farmers are engaging in arson, so we should help the farmers so that they harvest their crops in time.
I want to assure the Hon. Member that we have Agritex officers to educate farmers and they work in conjunction with GMB in training new farmers on when to harvest and take their grain to the GMB. We thank the farmers for the effort they are making in taking their grain to GMB.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you not have a supplementary question? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
HON. MANDIPAKA: No. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, I know, I am presiding
over this House.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: When maize is being transported to the GMB, we have farmers who engaged in command agriculture and others who were funded. When you go to Kadoma, there are farmers who used their personal money and would spend about two weeks but you will find that those who engaged in command agriculture do not take time to sell their grain. Is it Government policy that those who funded themselves wait longer to sell their grain than those who engaged in command agriculture?
*HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, that is a very specific question. I think the Hon. Member should put the question in writing and allow us to conduct investigations because it is now an allegation.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Minister of Home Affairs has gone out, so I recognise – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is now there!] – I know what I am saying. He had gone out when Hon. Mandipaka wanted to pose his question.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, this is how you waste time when you want to ask questions. You are busy making noise president; president that has nothing to do with the business of the House.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. May the Hon. Deputy Minister explain whether Government has any policy that is water tight to ensure that police uniform, regalia and kit does not fall into bad hands that tarnish the image of the force when such uniform is used by unauthorised persons. Do you have any policy in place? I thank you. *THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Yes, there is a very strong policy which embraces even the camouflage; including the security forces uniform, that if you are to be found abusing it in unofficial duties; you have to face criminal charges. It is standing there in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*HON. MANDIPAKA: Madam Speaker, I wanted to find out
from the Hon. Minister whether there is a policy, because he is talking of a charge. I am asking for a policy in Government that ensures that that regalia does not fall into bad hands. I thank you.
HON. MGUNI: That is what I said. Yes, it is there. I will bring it to the Hon. Member for him to see and read.
*HON. MANGWENDE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question
is directed to the Hon. Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, Hon. Dr. Made. What are you doing about the chicken disease called Avian influenza that has widely spread throughout the country affecting chickens?
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank the Hon. Member for asking a question concerning the Avian influenza. Firstly, I want to say that the disease is not wide spread. If it had been widespread, we would not be having any chickens left because it is really a menace. So, that is why I am thanking the Hon. Member because it gives me an opportunity to explain about the state of the disease.
Many people are falsely stating that it is widespread, but that is not the case. The disease is especially spread by migratory birds.
HON. MURAI: On a point of order! Can the Hon. Minister raise his voice like what he does when he is at a rally dishing out rice –
[Laughter.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you are being
asked to raise your voice so that all the Hon. Members in the House will hear.
*HON. DR. MADE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. This disease is spread by migratory birds. The animals that are normally attacked by this disease are birds. Chickens which were greatly affected were those at Irvines, because there is a way that they look after their chickens and they have veterinary specialists who look after their chickens. Chickens which were affected are breeders, those which produce eggs for reproduction of broilers.
These chicken birds are quarantined in their rooms and the surrounding areas are protected. So, the first room, the birds died because of that disease. After investigations, it was discovered that these chickens died because of Avian influenza. According to our policy, the Chief of the veterinary services who is in charge took precautions to kill all the other chickens in surrounding areas, that is three chicken runs were affected. So, the area was quarantined and we are about to finish the quarantine period and there is no other chicken which has been affected by this disease. I thank you.
*HON. BEREMAURO: Thank you Madam Speaker. What plans has the Government taken concerning countries like Botswana who have banned chicken exports to their countries?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister has
answered what has to do with the disease. If you have a different question, not as a supplementary question.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy on the removal and restoration of road blocks on the roads? I am asking that because you have said in the media, road blocks will be removed and there will be few on the roads. However, what is surprising is that road blocks are still in place and they are many.
Is it a matter of time to implement what you said? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. Your question is very pertinent Hon. Member. What should be clear to Zimbabweans is that there is no policy on road blocks because it is something that is done as a security measure against criminals. We will not be in Norton from six to six waiting for criminals; you will not catch any criminals. Therefore, we will pitch road blocks wherever they should be because we are looking for criminals. However, because we see that road blocks are many in the country and disturbing the smooth movement of workers and students, it makes relations to be poor between regulators and users and as such they should be reduced. That is the Government programme to provide easey ways of doing business. As home affairs, we should be compliant to that programme so as to facilitate ease of doing business. I thank you Madam Speaker.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Minister. I hear you. However, considering that some of the road blocks are being mounted by bogus police, what do you say about it? What have you done about it? On two occasions, bogus police officers were involved. What do you say about bogus police officers’ operations?
+HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Those
doing that are apprehended and put in prison. Secondly, we have a programme of electronic traffic control which will make it possible for those bogus police officers to be identified because they will not be having those gadgets. That person who will be found carrying a book when it is no longer in use and all those bogus police officers will be arrested. I thank you.
+HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. There is an issue that police officers are now holding motorists accountable on the road because the seats of their vehicles will be torn. Is that Government policy?
+HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The police are
there to prevent crime, protect property and life. Therefore when an accident occurs that can lead to fatalities, yes, the police have the right to do that. If it is torn such that it can cause fatalities, the police have the right to protect the life of those seated on that seat. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, the question from Hon. T.
Khumalo was, what is the law that provides that if a seat of a car is torn, it is an offence? We expect the Hon. Minister to cite a specific law and not explain.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I do not want
to misquote the Act. However, can he write down that specification?
Hon. Members having stood up to debate +HON. J. TSHUMA: Sit down.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I am presiding, just ask
your question.
+HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. I would like to understand what policy has Government put in place when this matter was raised before. The people who stay in urban areas, when they are seeking to obtain birth certificates, we, their representatives do not have any right to vouch for them as what chiefs do in the rural areas. Here in towns, do we have a law that allows us and the councilors to vouch for these people so that they are able to get birth certificates here in town, instead of being referred to communal areas? Some come from
Rusape or Binga. Do we have a law that allows us as Members of
Parliament and councilors to vouch for these people? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The Act which is in place does not provide for a Member of Parliament or a councilor to vouch because it was done specifically for communal areas. If we were to incorporate the urban people, there is nothing written for Members of Parliament or councilors to vouch. I thank you.
HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to understand what your department can do so that we are also incorporated so as to help the people. What is in place now was done for the people in communal areas. What can we do now so that we can also change the law so as to incorporate the rotation of the people in the urban areas? Is there something that you can do?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Yes, there is something we can do because our Members of Parliament who are in urban areas can combine and bring a motion so that you debate it and then we will make a Bill out of it. I thank you.
HON. KHUPE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Madam Speaker, many accidents have happened in the past and some of them recently and many people have died in the process. Some of these accidents are caused by throwing of spikes. I witnessed a police officer in Gweru last week throwing a spike. This is a very dangerous act. What is Government doing to make sure that they stop this dangerous act of throwing spikes because it has killed many people including the police officers? This act must be stopped. I think the police can come up with ways and means of stopping cars rather than using this dangerous act where many people have died. What is Government doing to stop this act?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I received a lot of phone calls and a lot of help from Hon. Adv. Chamisa and we quoted the Act which was indicating that if we found any police officer who throws a spike on a mobile car, there is a minimum sentence of three years. I think you remember this and it was published on papers because a spike is not a weapon or a tool to throw. It is laid on the ground to control the movement of traffic. So we clearly did that but however, I also want to elaborate that most of the deaths on the road are not from the spikes because we have got the statistics. They are from speeding drivers who do not have licences, the unfit vehicles and state of the roads. So there are a lot of contributing factors towards the death toll that we received on the road. I thank you Madam Speaker – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible
interjection.]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, muzvibate.
+HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question is that from morning, police will be holding these spikes which have chemicals. It is a health hazard when they hold these spikes for a long time. So, what Government policy do you have to avoid this health hazard?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is now different from the
original question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister, you indicated that you have put in place a law that shall fine police officers who throw spikes guilty of an offence. However, beside waiting for that to occur, what measures are you taking as a Ministry to ensure that police officers in their training and retraining are taught not to throw spikes when they are conducting their duties? Thank you.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. We did not bring the law now. It was already there on the Act. We are just activating and creating awareness to the officers on duty to know so that the memorandums are sent every now and then so that they know that they do not have to throw spikes to a motorist.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is, does the Government not have alternative methods which do not entail the use of spikes? The Minister could enlighten us whether there is any other country which has police officers moving around with spikes because from my own personal observations,
I have never come across any other country where you find police officers moving around with spikes, which in the process of executing their duties can be abused. It is difficult to regulate whether the police officers are going to follow the law and lay them on the road as opposed to a situation where they throw them. The Hon. Deputy Minister could clarify for us as a nation on that aspect? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, you are
now shouting, particularly Hon. Wadyajena please.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker and thank you Hon. Gonese for your question. We are Zimbabweans and I think what we should do is to contribute and come up with a better solution if that one is bad. Let me use two countries as an example because he said are there other countries that do such things. We have Belgium. Recently they shot the rear wheel of a truck that refused to stop on a road block, they shot the rear wheel and that truck rolled out. In South Africa, in each standard roadblock, there will be two flying squad vehicles. When somebody refuses to stop on the road block, those vehicles are there to chase that car like a Hollywood movie, but it has created a lot of accidents when people are chasing each other.
A spike as I have been identifying it in Parliament is a tool that is laid down on the road to control traffic. It should only be applicable to a person who refuses to stop on the road block. You cannot throw a spike to someone who is adhering to the rules of the road. Therefore, the spike is put on the ground for those who disobey the rules. That is exactly what we have and the country has got its own laws which may not be the same as the other counties. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Perhaps the Hon. Deputy Minister did not understand the question. The question was whether they have explored the possible use of other methods which do not entail the use of spikes. In his response, it was quite clear that the examples which he gave have nothing to do with the use of spikes and instead, relate to the use of alternative methods. So, if the Hon. Deputy Minister could clarify to us whether Government has plans to explore the possibility of doing what other countries are doing, whereby they can have police officers chasing after a motorist who will have refused to stop. Also, in his response, it appears that he is not aware of any other country where police officers use such a primitive method. Could he specifically tell us which other country in the world uses such a primitive method to try and stop motor vehicles?
HON. MGUNI: When I began answering the Hon. Member, I said, as Zimbabweans, we can come together and bring up any other method that everyone thinks is better than what the police is using. We do not refuse but we have not seen anyone coming forth and that is why the police have invented their own method to stop those mushikashikas. Secondly, there are road disobeying motorists that have killed police officers. If you look at this issue of spikes, it is in the courts right now. I was just generous to answer the question, The police presented full evidence showing that five of their officers have broken legs and they can no longer stand in front of the vehicles or lift up their arms to try to stop the errant motorists. So, if somebody has a better way of stopping those criminals, please bring it, our office is open. We will not even refuse the proposal.
HON. TOFFA: Minister, considering the fact that most of these cars that are having spikes thrown under are kombis that are carrying innocent people and people are dying, can he not stop the police from throwing these spikes because people are dying. Is it legal to throw these spikes?
HON. MGUNI: That is the exact answer I gave through the help of Advocate Chamisa. We managed to clear the air and said it is illegal to throw a spike at a moving vehicle.
*HON. MAHOKA: My question is directed to Hon Mguni. What is the Ministry doing concerning aliens who were born in this country whom you are saying should bring $40,00 to renounce citizenship yet they were born here. In our Constitution on Section 35, it says; it is the right of children and for a person in Zimbabwe to be given an Identity Card.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): We have got a Statutory Instrument which I remember came into effect in 2009, which says that the aliens can change their birth certificates or identity cards by paying a $40,00 fee. She is correct because it is written like that in the Statutory Instrument. However, it was presented in this Parliament by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development because they are the ones that peg the fees that are paid. There was no dispute from the Hon. Members present. What Home Affairs is doing is just to execute that Statutory Instrument. However, if they have identified that it is too expensive for the aliens, we can move a motion in order to rectify that Statutory Instrument.
*HON. MAHOKA: He has explained very well but what he is
saying relates to the old Constitution whereas we are referring to the new Constitution which stipulates that “a child who was born in
Zimbabwe” in the new Constitution and not the old Constitution.
HON. MGUNI: As I explained before, there are Bills that are coming to Parliament because the Act is saying another thing and the Constitution is saying something else. So, we need to drive the Act to align it to the Constitution and then we can execute our work properly.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Perhaps to just seek
further clarification from the Minister of Home Affairs, like Hon. Mahoka said, Section 35 (1) says persons are Zimbabwean citizens by birth, descent and registration. The question that therefore follows is that as we speak right now, those people have identity cards that define them as citizens. Why then are they being asked to pay a fee to become citizens when they are already citizens by the mere fact that they do have an identity card and we have Section 35 (1)?
HON. MGUNI: It is exactly what I explained that the fees are pegged by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Can they direct that question to the relevant Minister?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to draw the Minister to Section 2 of the Constitution which talks about the supremacy of the Constitution. It says; “this Constitution is the supreme law of Zimbabwe. Any law, practice, custom or conduct inconsistent with it is invalid to the extent of its inconsistence.” What I want to say is that we have glorified this creature called alignment of laws and the majority of us have decided not to abide by the Constitution and glorified an animal called alignment of laws. The Constitution is very clear. If you are a Zimbabwean you get a birth certificate without paying a penny. If there is a Statutory Instrument that says pay $40 and this Constitution came into effect, why are we labouring ourselves about an unlawful practice when the
Constitution is very clear – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear.] -
HON. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, I do not want to contradict with the supreme law of the country which is the Constitution. I have heard what Hon. Ziyambi is saying and I have to call an urgent meeting with my Ministry and spell out that thing so that we can rectify the problem. *HON. MAKARI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Does the Government have a policy which prevents girls or women who sell their bodies from abuse by the police? If there is a law pertaining to that, was it publicised? – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Hanzi mahure].
HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, there is no point of order. *HON. NYAMUPINGA: Pane zvirikutaurwa. We cannot have a person achitaura kuti mahure muno umu. We cannot have that Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Speaker of Parliament was
very clear on what is a point of order in the House. If it does not refer to the procedures and to a certain Member of Parliament, then it will not be a point of order - [HON. ZWIZWAI: It refers to our voters.] -
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Madam Speaker, if the Speaker of
Parliament read something from here, probably you did not understand.
The Hon. Member who said that should withdraw - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. MAPIKI: I did not say that word but she said commercial sex workers. In Shona, it still comes to the same word “hure” – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I, therefore welcome the point
of order raised by Hon. Nyamupinga but it is important to acknowledge that the direct translation of what is being said is exactly what Hon. Mapiki is saying – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Let me finish my ruling – [AN HON MEMBER: Ko varume vanonzi chii?] - It is important in this House to acknowledge that it is very unparliamentary to use that word – [HON. MEMBERS: Why?] - Hon.
Mapiki, I ask you to withdraw that word – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - Can Hon. Mapiki withdraw the word
“mahure?”
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I can withdraw if you give me the proper word. I withdraw.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I did not hear you. Can you
please withdraw? I will not allow your point of order. Hon. Mapiki, I did not hear you. Can you please withdraw.
*HON. MAPIKI: Hon. Speaker, I withdraw but can you tell me what the word commercial sex worker says?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mapiki, can you
approach the Chair – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Members from my right. I will not allow any point of order until I am done with Hon. Mapiki. Hon. Mapiki, can you withdraw.
*HON. MAPIKI: “Ndasvomhora” – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Hon.
Members from my right side, can you please sit down. Hon. Members, let me do my work. I said Hon. can you withdraw.
HON. MAPIKI: I withdraw.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in respect of Section 6 of the Constitution which talks about languages that we can use in this House. We do not want you to deprive us of that section. Languages namely: Chewa, Chibarwe, English, Kalanga, Koisan, Shona can be used. Why are you depriving us from using our mother tongue in this House but you encourage us to use English – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Hon.
Members from my right side, can you please sit down. Hon. Members, I have made a ruling on this issue. All languages apply in this House but there are words that are very unparliamentary and I will not allow them as I chair – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and that is final. Can Hon. Deputy Minister Mguni respond to the question?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Madam Speaker, I am aware that there is no Act that grants commercial, whether it is social or what workers. I am afraid to name it. It is not yet approved that they can do their work. However, it does not constitute police to abuse such people because you cannot even abuse a person you arrested committing crime. As police, you need to be professional. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I move that the time for Questions
Without Notice be extended by 30 minutes.
HON. MUPFUMI: I object.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a matter of privilege, Standing
Order 68 (d). Hon. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity on a matter of privilege just to indicate that earlier on across the divide, we raised our concerns around some of the Ministers without excuse. There are some who have sent their apologies and we appreciate but there are those who have not. We have counted the number of Ministers and I will go to the Deputy Ministers. We just have about four of them and there are those who have not come.
I want to say Hon. Speaker and I seek the indulgence of Hon. Members. We have Ministers who have not been coming to Parliament and it is always important for us to raise these things so that the names are recorded. Hon. Mguni, I want to say in as much as you may not have all the answers, we want to appreciate your kind effort to try and answer questions – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I want to say he makes an effort. You may disagree with answers but he takes his duties seriously and we appreciate. Hon. Dr. Made, we appreciate you and all the Ministers who managed to come. We may not agree with you as Members of Parliament but we appreciate you. Those whom we have not mentioned, we hope that you will earn our confidence next time.
Hon. Speaker, I stood up to say there are Ministers who have been consistent in coming to Parliament and those who are not. Allow me, because it is a procedure of Parliament in terms of our Standing Orders to cite and mention those names so that if they have a duty to then come to the Speaker to say we were doing this and that, it is their responsibility. Their names must be known so that Parliament records.
It is our duty as an oversight arm of Government to say MPs have asked Members of Cabinet to do their duty. We are doing our duty by being here, so I have got names.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Chamisa may I interrupt you before you proceed to that stage.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Sure Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members I really appreciate what Hon. Chamisa has said, it is very important and we know it is very true and a fact. So we this in mind, as Hon. Members of Parliament, we cannot do that task thoroughly but I would love the Parliament administration to give us a list of those ministers who have been coming to Parliament from 2013 when they were appointed to now. How many have been consistent in their Parliament attendance and those who have not come today. I think for it to be fair, let us have the administration make a list on who has been coming and how many times so that we can publish what is factual. Are you agreeable to that suggestion Hon. Chamisa?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, we are not
here to embarrass our Hon. Ministers and I appreciate that the effort is to make sure that they come. So we await the kind gesture and reserve because we had already compiled the list. We are going to authenticate and validate the effort of the technical team and will help them should they fail to do it because we have the names and ready to do it.
On that score, because it is a matter of privilege again, Hon.
Chidhakwa had said he was going to give us a Ministerial Statement on the $15 billion. I hope that he will kindly favour – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Muzukuru wangu but we want him to favour Parliament with a response on the $15bn. It is such an important matter that we want to know where the $15 billion is. – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Point of order!] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Before I have another
point of order, may I have Hon. Chidhakwa to respond on the issue of the Ministerial Statement concerning the issue please, just when you will be able to table the report.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I made an undertaking that I would give a Ministerial Statement to explain the issue of the $15 billion and what work is being undertaken. I also said – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order the Hon.
Minister is responding and you are making noise.
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: I also said that would include the work that is being done by the Auditor-General. I am guided also by how much work has taken place there but I will be explaining to you what the situation is. I thank you. – [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Point of order!] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no other
question pertaining to the issue because the Hon. Minister has responded. May you please approach the Chair Hon. Chinotimba? –
[HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the point…] – Hon. Mliswa I have not appointed you. May you please approach the Chair as well?
Hon. Chinotimba and Hon. Mliswa approached the Chair.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
RECOURSE TAKEN BY FARMERS WHO HAVE NOT
BENEFITTED FROM PROCEEDS OF TREASURY BILLS
- HON. KANHANGA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain to the House the recourse that may be taken by farmers who have not benefited from the proceeds that were put towards the purchase of Treasury Bills since 2007.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Hon. Members will recall
that Government took over the RBZ debt in 2015, through the RBZ Debt Assumption Act. The assumed debt had, among other creditors, farmers. Government currently issues creditors with Treasury Bills after reconciliation with the Debt Management Office housed under my Ministry.
Farmers who have since completed the reconciliation exercise have already been issued with Treasury Bills, whilst those who have not yet been issues should approach our Debt Management Office with a view
to reconcile the outstanding amounts before Government can issue Treasury Bills.
POLICY REGARDING DEBT TAKEOVER OF STRATEGIC
COMPANIES
2 HON. CHIKOMBA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain the policy regarding debt takeover of strategic companies such as David Whitehead Textiles.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Hon. Members will be
aware that Government does not take over debt from private companies. However, Government realised that due to economic challenges, a number of companies were failing to service their loans with commercial banks. In response, Government incorporated the Zimbabwe Asset Management Company (ZAMCO) with the primary mandate to efficiently resolve the problem of high Non Performing Loans (NPLs) of banking institutions in Zimbabwe through acquiring, restructuring, managing and disposing the NPLs.
All strategic companies, including David Whitehead should, therefore, approach ZAMCO.
LOAN AGREEMENT WITH AFRICA IMPORT-EXPORT BANK
FACILITY ON BOND NOTES
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development -
- to state when the loan agreement that gave rise to the $200 million Africa Import Export Bank ‘facility’ for the bond notes was concluded;
- to indicate whether or not its terms were published in the Government Gazette ; and whether or not this was done in 60 days in terms of Section 300 (3) of the Constitution; and to explain the terms of the said parent loan agreement;
- to indicate whether or not the loan agreement that gave rise to the facility was referred to Parliament in terms of Section 327 (3) of the
Constitution; and whether or not it was referred to the relevant Portfolio Committee in terms of the Standing Orders. If not, when will it be so referred?
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, the $200
million Africa Import Export Bank Facility for the bond notes is not a loan but a facility. In this regard, the issues being asked about a loan agreement and reference to Section 300 (3) of the Constitution do not apply.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Madam Speaker, I wish to raise a point of privilege. I am disappointed that the Hon. Minister is circumventing the question. The question is clear and he is not answering the question. I asked this question before about what he is referring to that is the $200 million Afrexim Bank loan and the Minister cleverly avoided answering the questions and avoiding the obligations in terms of the Constitution by claiming that it is not a loan but a facility. Therefore, this question is arising from his answer then.
Yes, I get it. He said that the $200 million Afrexim Bank loan is not a loan but a facility. What I am asking now is, if it was not a facility. Can he then give details about the parent loan agreement that gave rise to a facility because a facility is always a facility, in terms of a loan? A facility is something that is directly derived from a loan. So, there must be an agreement which allows facilities. That is the question and he is not answering. I am really concerned because it does not look like the
Minister is taking my question seriously. He is deliberately avoiding it.
I am not asking about AFREXIM bank facility itself but I am asking about the parent loan that gave rise to the AFRIXEM bank facility. It is very clear; we have gone through this before. I am asking this because of what he said before. In terms of the Constitution, there is an obligation to answer the question.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, it is very clear in the response and the Hon. Member acknowledges that the question has been answered. If she has a new question, certainly, there is no harm in the Hon. Member restating the question in the manner she is restating it so that the Minister can answer.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, I think the
question has been answered but if you want precisely the other way of questioning, then you can write another question.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Speaker, as a Member of Parliament, I
was elected by my constituents to represent them. This is a very important issue. I think it is unfair for Ministers to avoid questions. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development was in this House and I
asked him a question about the US$200 million AFRIXEM Bank loan
and the Minister said it is not a loan, it is a facility. So, exactly what the
Minister said is what he said about the US$2 00 million AFRIXEM
Bank facility.
Now, this question is not about that. The Acting Minister of Finance, Hon. Made should not give me an answer that he gave me about the US$200 million AFRIXEM Bank facility. I want an answer about the parent loan that gave rise to that facility. He said I should put it in writing but this is what is there in writing on the Order Paper, I do not know what part of writing it is that the Minister does not get. The Minister cannot avoid answering; he has an obligation in terms of the
Constitution to answer this question. So, can he please now answer it?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister could you
answer the question now or you need more time to research?
HON. DR. MADE: I know that the Hon. Member might want to give the position in that. The answer that I have given, I have responded - to be very honest. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, I think you can
then write another question elaborating the specific question.
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker it is not possible to elaborate.
I do not know what part of the question the Minister does not understand. This is a point of privilege Hon. Madam Speaker. This is an evasion of the question. This is an answer that he gave in relation to the US$200million AFRIXEM Bank facility. My question is not about the facility, it is about the parent loan that gave rise to the facility.
Madam Speaker, if you go to your bank and you have an agreement with your bank, you can get a loan and it is in agreement with your bank but pursuant to that loan agreement, your bank can give you a facility to draw from time to time. So, I am not asking about that facility, I am asking about that original, the base agreement that allows them to get that facility. It is in writing Madam Speaker, it is so clear. I do not know what I can further elaborate. If the Minister does not want to respond to the question, that is fine but not to pretend - I cannot write it over and over again. It is very clear.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will refer back the question to
the Minister so that they can do another research on the question to be able to respond on the requirement by the Hon. Member.
FERTILIZER FOR MR. GODFREY TICHARWA VAMBE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House when Treasury will release funds for payment to Mr. Godfrey Ticharwa Vambe for his five tonnes of ammonium Nitrate Fertilizer that he bought in 2008 from the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) depot in Harare under the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Input Scheme.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I would
appreciate if the Hon. Member could furnish me with more details so that I can take it up and facilitate the payment being sought. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker, I rise also to raise a point of privilege. I originally asked this question to the Hon. Minister of Agriculture who ironically is the one who is answering this question on behalf of the Minister of Finance. I am sure, even as he is Acting as the
Minister of Finance, he is the same Minister who said he will not answer that question; he will only make that money available to Mr. Vambe when Treasury avails that money and I should ask the Minister of Finance.
Now, I ask the Minister of Finance, he comes back with another cloak, he says, oh, he should get more detail and as the Minister of
Agriculture, he knows about this. He even got a copy of the letter of Mr.
Chitarwa Godfrey Vambe who did not get his inputs since 2008. Surely, I do not know what details he wants because I have been tossed from pillar to post and this is very disrespectful.
This is a constituent who has been waiting for his maize, he gave money to the GMB, the Minister of Agriculture says, I do not know, ask the Minister of Finance. I ask the Minister of Finance with details, he says I should give him more details and he is the same person, by the way.
HON. DR. MADE: I think Madam Speaker, with all fairness, I am responding on behalf of the Minister of Finance, to be very frank. I have responded to the Hon. Member as Minister of Finance for her to give me more details. I do not think we should confuse and say the same person standing there is the Minister of Agriculture, that is not fair. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIR: Hon. Dr. Made, right now, is
standing as the Minister of Finance and the response that he has given you is adequate in accordance with the Ministry that he is representing.
You must furnish them with more details in order for them to respond.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Speaker, can I get your help to ask the
Acting Minister of Finance to get the details from the Minister of Agriculture who has those details because this is a question that I asked him – he has those details. The Minister of Agriculture referred me to the Minister of Finance, so through your help, can you please ask him to get those details from the Minister of Agriculture, including the letter to the G.M.B that I gave him.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, I do not think it
is workable for the other Ministry to give instruction to another Ministry; you are the Member of Parliament representing the constituency. You can go to the Ministry and get the details then you can furnish the Ministry of Finance with details that you have in order for them to give you a response.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order! Madam Speaker, with due respect, I understand and appreciate Hon. Minister Made’s response that he is not the Minister of Finance. In so doing it becomes very difficult for him to answer other questions, so what is the point of us continuing asking him questions. We must be very clear on this. what does the Constitution say when one is Acting, he must be able to be conversant with whatever he is going to say and to me it is pretty clear that the
Minister is not the one responsible for Finance and Economic Development but for Agriculture.
So, it is equally important and I wish the Deputy Minister of
Finance was here to respond because he under studies. What is the
Deputy Minister of Finance doing if he is not here because when
Minister Made in Agriculture is not here, Hon. P. Zhanda is here or Hon. Mharapara is here? So, what is the role of the Deputy Minister? This just creates a whole lot of problems which exposes our Executive at the end of the day. This is a total waste of tax payer’s money where we expect people to be able to be answerable to Parliament. We cannot take this lightly, if the Minister is not here to respond and he is in charge of that Ministry, it is recommended that you actually suspend or your defer those questions to another date when the responsible Minister is here because this is an absolute waste of time. I have no time to be here listening to an Acting Minister who cannot answer things adequately.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): There is no
point of order here Hon. Mliswa. Hon. Minister Made has given a response from a technical side of the Ministry. It is in writing, that is why we said submit it because it is written. He can respond to all the financial questions that are arising. He is very competent in that Ministry and he can respond to all questions.
POLICY ON BUSINESS PEOPLE BANKING DAILY TAKINGS
FROM SALES
- HON. A. MNANGAGWA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain the policy that compels the business people in retail shops, wholesales and others to bank their daily takings from sales with the banks in order to ease the financial cash shortages that the country is currently faced with.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I want to
thank the Hon. Member. The policy set out under the Bank Use Promotion Act [Chapter 24:24].
- Section 10 of the Act requires all businesses to have bank accounts.
- Section 11 requires businesses to bank all their cash receipts.
- Section 13 requires the businesses to maintain records of their sales and what they bank on a day-to-day basis.
Madam Speaker, non-compliance with the obligations is a criminal offence that is punishable through a fine or imprisonment or both. This law is designed as a tool to combat tax evasion and money laundering as well as to promote efficient circulation of cash in the economy through official banking channels. The policy also discourages illicit cash dealings.
So far, the following three firms have been sentenced and fined the indicated amounts for not complying with the Bank Use Promotion Act;
- Builders Home Hardware - US$17 000
- Bathroom Boutique - US$9000
- Eurostar Electricals - US$20 000
On behalf of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development,
I thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: My supplementary question to the Acting Minister of Finance and Economic Development is that, it is well to name and shame those people who are not banking their cash. However, we once asked in this august House that, most Ministers and Members of Parliament are running businesses and is there evidence that they are banking their cash so that the whole nation will follow suit. It is not fair to push other businesses to bank their cash yet Ministers and Members of Parliament – I believe 90% of them who are running businesses are not banking their cash. What assurance can you give to the nation?
HON. MADE: Hon. Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for raising the question. I will not respond on a speculative basis. These are very specific areas as asked. If the Hon. Member has a specific name or company, you can put it in writing and an appropriate response will be given. Speculatively, I think that is not fair. Thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I hear what the Hon. Minister is saying that we should not be speculative. Without speculation or equivocation, have it on good authority. I went to ZINARA for example and not insist that they only accept cash. Why is Government not leading by example and not insist that they only accept cash instead of allowing citizens and also lead by example so that we move to a cashless society by activating the e-platform because it is convenient for a lot of people? However, there are circumstances where you go there, even in the registration, if you go to Immigration, they have those problems and these are Government Departments but we continue to have those problems. Why is Government allowing this to happen?
HON. MADE: Certainly, I want to appreciate the issue as raised by Hon. Member in the supplementary question. If there are specific areas as he has already named specific institutions, we will certainly take up the matter on those institutions named. Indeed, it is the objective of Government that certainly, the public institutions should assist and lead by example. Thank you.
CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE BY ZIMBABWE
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY AUTHORITY (ZESA) ON HOSTING
ZANU PF PARTY CONFERENCE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Energy and Power
Development;
- a) to explain to the House why Zimbabwe Electricity Supply
Authority (ZESA) Holdings flighted an advertisement in The Herald on 14 December, 2016 to congratulate the President of Zimbabwe for successfuly hosting his annual ZANU PF political party conference on
14 to 18 December, 2016, despite Section 196 (3) (a) of the
Constitution’s requirements of public officers’ objectivity and impartiality;
- to state the cost of the advertisement;
- to state the benefit of the advertisement to electricity consumers;
- to inform the House whether or not the advertisement was budgeted for and for how much; and
- to indicate to the House whether or not ZESA will also flight advertisements to congratulate other political parties such as MDC-T and MDC for holding events.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): Thank you Madam
Speaker. As correctly pointed out, ZESA Holdings congratulated His
Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe on the hosting of the party’s National Conference out of respect for the Office of the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe. The advertisement cost US$890. Indeed, the electricity customers tend to benefit especially if one takes into account what the President has achieved in terms of securing funding from the Chinese Government for the mega projects such as Kariba Power Station Extension and Hwange Power Station Expansion. Thanks to the relationship between ZANU PF and the Chinese Communist Party, these two projects have now managed to get much needed funding and the contribution to the economy in terms of availing a total of 900 megawatts to the economy is immeasurable.
ZESA Holdings includes advertisements in its annual budget and the 2016 budget was no exception. ZESA Holdings always supports the Office and person of the President of Zimbabwe who has been duly elected by the people and whosoever assumes that office will be supported by ZESA. ZESA is owned by the Government and the President is the Head of State and Government. I thank you Madam
Speaker.
HON. MAJOME: Supplementary question Hon. Madam Speaker.
I notice that the Hon. Minister said that he put this advertisement to congratulate the President of ZANU PF out of respect for the Office of the President. Is the Hon. Minister aware that the Office of the President is the office of a State President in terms of the Constitution and is not a party office? If he is aware, why is he using the Office of the President and mixing it up with a party function?
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, the most important
point is that he was congratulated in his capacity as the President of Zimbabwe and Head of Government. Of course, it is a known fact that he comes from ZANU PF party and as a party, there are certain relationships which they exploit to benefit Government. I thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Can you
respond to Question No. 19 (e).
Hon. Adv. Chamisa having stood up to make a supplementary question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. I just
wanted to let Hon. Minister Undenge finish Question No. 19 (e) to indicate to the House whether or not ZESA will also flight adverts to congratulate other political parties such as MDC-T and MDC for holding such events. That was the other question by the Hon. Member.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier on, the congratulation was to the President and Head of Government by virtue of the fact that he holds that office. It is the person who holds that office who will be congratulated. Thank you.
HON. MAJOME: I have a follow up question Madam Speaker?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your follow up
question?
HON. MAJOME: I need to refresh the Hon. Minister’s memory
about what the advert actually says. The advert says that they congratulate Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe for the successful hosting of the 16th People’s Annual Conference. That clearly refers to the party. Is the 16th Annual People’s Conference a State Conference or is it a Conference of ZANU PF political party? May be he has forgotten because I have got the advert right here. Are you aware that electricity consumers are unhappy about using State funds to fund political party publicity?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think Hon. Majome the
Minister has responded to your question when he said –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Yes, the Hon. Minister has responded. Hon. Minister, can you repeat your response because I thought I heard you clearly.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, perhaps let me reiterate the answer which I gave. I mentioned that ZESA Holdings always supports the Office and person of the President of Zimbabwe who had been duly elected by the people. Whosoever assumes that office will be supported by ZESA. In this particular instance, ZESA congratulated the President for hosting a successful Annual Conference. It was in connection with that. As you know, I mentioned that the Head of State comes from ZANU PF party. I thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I really appreciate what the Minister of Energy has said. My question to the Minister is whether he is aware that by condoning that kind of conduct, the Minister and the entity are both unconstitutional in violating the Constitution of Zimbabwe in particular, Section 194 on the basic values and principles governing public administration because these are State entities. They are not supposed to be partial in any way, either in the discharge of their duties or even in the allocation of resources that belong to the people. So, is he aware that by the mere conducts, we are infracting and tearing apart the
Constitution of Zimbabwe? He has a duty to uphold the Constitution. Is he going to do anything to try and stop that conduct and behavior because it is clearly unconstitutional? Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, perhaps the Hon. Member can benefit from the fact that it is not only ZEZA which congratulated the President for holding such a successful conference. A lot of private sector companies, commercial entities and ZESA is a privatised company which has its own board and the Minister does not interfere with the operations on a day to day basis. It is not a policy issue on the other hand. So, it has that decision and following on what it would have decided on. It is not something unique but it is something which is done by several commercial entities. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I think
the Minister is clear in his response. This is the last supplementary question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, you are right that ZESA is an operation that has got its own board. However, it is a State owned enterprise and therefore, in terms of policy, it is guided by Government. So, the question is whether it is Government policy that you should take public resources and use them to congratulate political parties. Simply answer the question. It is your responsibility because you are the one that gives policy direction. So, it is the policy. Do not avoid the question.
- [HON. MACHINGAUTA: Musazvipamhe.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Machingauta, can you
withdraw what you have just said?
HON. MACHINGAUTA: Ndinomedza zvandataura.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Unomedza kuti chii?
HON. MACHINGAUTA: Ndinomedza zvandataura zvekuti
vasazvipamha.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, I think I have been very
clear on this matter that ZESA as a commercial entity did so respecting and congratulating the President in his capacity as the Head of Government and having done something which was commendable.
Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: All supplementary questions
have been exhausted. I will not allow any other.
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
You address me and not the Minister.
HON. MAONDERA: My point of order is that at some point, the
Minister promised to come to this House with a ministerial statement regarding prepaid meters. How far has he done because residents are suffering and there is a lot of corruption and they are being duped of their hard earned cash? At some point, he promised to come with a response in the form of a ministerial statement and it has been a long time before we received that ministerial statement.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The point of order was not
arising but I will allow the Hon. Minister to respond when he will bring the ministerial statement.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): I agree with you Madam
Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. You are
talking about a ministerial statement that he has to bring and he said he is agreeing to that.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: I will bring the ministerial statement
Madam Speaker.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: I think it is important to follow up. This very Hon. Minister, on 10th February 2017, he promised before this House after he was ordered to submit a Ministerial Statement pertaining to the formation of a company called Genesis, which is set to compete with Petro Trade. To date, it is four months and three weeks down the line, the Hon. Minister has not brought that Ministerial Statement. Therefore, I think it is important that the Hon. Minister should give us a date so we can hold him accountable. Otherwise like the Genesis one, we will wait until after the elections for the Hon. Minister to bring a Ministerial Statement. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think Hon. Members, your
points of order are not arising but I will allow the Minister to tell the House when he will be ready to bring the Ministerial Statement.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: I will bring it when I am ready with the response.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maondera, withdraw
your statement.
HON. MAONDERA: I withdraw that he must just apologise and
resign.
ELECTRIFICATION OF JOTSHOLO DISTRICT REGISTRY
OFFICES
- HON. M. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the House when electricity supplies would be connected to the Jotsholo District Registry offices in view of the fact that quotations were done by the Ministry officials.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): I want to thank the Hon.
Member for his question.
Though quotations have been made, no payment has been received yet by ZETDC for connection fees. However, Jotsholo Clinic tee-off
50kVA, 33/0.4KV transformer is burnt but the line is healthy and is on. At the moment, there are no replacements for burnt transformer, procurement of the transformers is in progress and supplies will be restored as soon as the transformers have been delivered. The delays in the procurement are mainly due to unavailability of foreign currency, which is being managed by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
HON. M. KHUMALO: We are happy that they have done
quotations but he mentioned that the clinic which relied on a transformer is in the district town where there is also ARDA and a lot of work is happening there. If the transformer is not found, what is the Minister’s plans to ensure that a transformer from other sources around is put there so that the clinic and township are functional?
HON. DR. UNDENGE: As I have already said, there is a general shortage of transformers in the country. My Ministry and ZESA have initiated a process of ordering those transformers and importing the spares so that those transformers which can be manufactured locally will be manufactured here. As I said earlier on, some of the transformers have been affected because of the incessant rains which we had in the past. Some have been vandalised and in total, there is a shortage of
4000 transformers. As they will be delivered, we will prioritise areas such as clinics. So, the Hon. Member should bear with us as it will be rectified as soon as we have the transformers.
HON. M. KHUMALO: I think he did not understand me. What I
am saying is that in the constituency, there are other lines that have transformers but the lines are not functional. Can the Ministry not take a transformer that is not being used elsewhere in the constituency and put it at the clinic, which is a sensitive area?
HON. DR. UNDENGE: I understand what the Hon. Member is
saying. We will follow that up with the officers of ZETDC to see if there is a transformer lying idle in the area so that it is put at the clinic.
The matter will be followed up. I thank you.
PLANS TO ENSURE TIMEOUS PAYMENT TO FARMERS
- HON. CHISOROCHENGWE asked the Minister of
Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to inform the House what plans the Ministry has to ensure that farmers are timeously paid as a way of encouraging that they sell their produce to the authorised buyers such as the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) instead of withholding such produce due to cash shortages.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank the Hon. Member and respond as follows that resources have been mobilised to pay farmers who deliver grain to the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) timeously. I am aware that in some cases though in terms of cash requirements, that might be an issue but all the farmers that have bank accounts are being paid timeously. This season we also have proof that last season it was the same. I thank you.
POLICY REGARDING REPAYMENT TO HERMISTON
IRRIGATION SCHEME
- HON. KAZEMBE asked the Minister of Agriculture,
Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to inform the House what Government policy is regarding repayment in a case scenario similar to the one at Hermiston Irrigation Scheme in Mazowe West Constituency where farmers received incomplete equipment under the Brazil facility resulting in their failure to utilize it and to further state when the farmers are expected to start honouring their repayment obligations.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):
Hermiston Irrigation Scheme received a complete set of irrigation equipment. Farmers who benefited from the Brazil facility are expected to honour their repayment obligations starting from December 2016.
HON. KAZEMBE: My supplementary question is that maybe the
Minister is not aware that these people did not receive all the equipment that they require. As I am speaking right now, they cannot utilise the equipment. Initially, they did not have a transformer and now the transformer is not connected. They do not have a cable. They have had this equipment for almost a year now and it is not working. They are expected to start paying back.
HON. DR. MADE: I think the Hon. Member very correctly is now
referring to the ZESA issues. I am referring to the agriculture equipment. So, that is a matter that we can only take but otherwise as relating to the equipment from Brazil, they did receive all the equipment. The issue he is raising relates to ZESA connections which we will deal with.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
REFUSAL OF BOND NOTES BY MULTICHOICE (DSTV)
- HON. CHIRISA asked the Minister of Finance Economic
Development what steps the Ministry is taking over the issue of refusal by Multichoice (DSTV) Zimbabwe to accept bond notes from customers for their monthly subscriptions.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I believe
the issue being raised by the Hon. Member has been overtaken by events. As we speak, Madam Speaker, all traders are accepting payment in bond notes.
STRATEGIES TO MOBILISE RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES
- HON. N. MGUNI asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to state what strategies the Ministry has put in place to mobilise resources to cater for the needs of persons with disabilities as required by the provisions of the Constitution.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I am pleased to inform this House that all efforts are being taken to ensure that budgeted resources that are due to persons with disabilities are disbursed as timeously as possible. My Ministry has since disbursed the resources that were budgeted for the Disabled Persons Programme in the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare for 2017.
Members may also wish to know that disabled persons are given priority in other programmes that are under the respective Ministry’s mandate such as support to vulnerable groups under the Drought Mitigatory Programme, Health Assistance Programme and BEAM.
Treasury prioritises the release of funds to the Ministry of Public Service and Social Welfare due to the fact that most beneficiaries under this
Ministry’s programmes are vulnerable and need support from the State.
CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE BY ZIMBABWE ELECTRICITY
SUPPLY AUTHORITY (ZESA) ON HOSTING ZANU PF PARTY
CONFERENCE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Energy and Power
Development:
- a) To explain to the House why Zimbabwe Electricity Supply
Authority (ZESA) Holdings flighted an advertisement in The Herald on 14 December, 2016 to congratulate the President of Zimbabwe for successfully hosting his annual ZANU PF political party conference on 14 – 18 December, 2016 despite Section 196(3)(a) of the Constitution’s requirements of public officers’ objectivity and impartiality;
- To state the cost of advertisement;
- To state the benefit of the advertisement to electricity consumers;
(d)To inform the House as to whether or not the advertisement was budgeted for and for how much; and
(e) To indicate to the House whether or not ZESA will also flight advertisements to congratulate other political parties such as MDC – T and MDC for holding events.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. UNDENGE): Mr. Speaker Sir, let me thank
the Hon. J. Majome for raising the above questions. Allow me to respond as follows:
- As correctly pointed out, ZESA Holdings congratulated His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe on the hosting of the Party’s National Conference out of respect for the Office of the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe.
- The advert cost $890.
- Indeed, the electricity customers stand to benefit, especially if one takes into account what the President has achieved in terms of securing funding from the Chinese Government for the mega projects
Kariba Power Station Expansion and Hwange Power Station Expansion.
Thanks to the relationship between ZANU (PF) and the Chinese Communist Party. These projects have now managed to get much needed funding and their contribution to the economy in terms of availing a total of 900MW to the economy is immeasurable.
- ZESA Holdings includes advertisements in its annual budgets and the 2016 Budget was no exception.
- ZESA Holdings always supports the Office and Person of the President of Zimbabwe who has been duly elected by the people and whosoever assumes that office will be supported by ZESA. ZESA is owned by Government and the President is the Head of State and
Government.
Mr. Speaker Sir, some Hon. Members in this Hon. House seem to politicize anything. It is our considered view that we would serve the electorate better by focusing on material issues.
ELECTRIFICATION OF MUZAVAZI AND MAVHUDZI
SECONDARY SCHOOLS
- HON. GANGARAHWE asked the Minister of Energy and
Power Development to inform the House when the Rural Electrification
Agency would electrify Muzavazi Secondary School in Ward 8, in Mhondoro- Mubaira Constituency.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. UNDENGE): Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministry has recently been overwhelmed by questions from Hon. Members here who want to know when certain institutions in their respective constituencies shall be electrified. In this regard Mr. Speaker Sir, while it is the Government’s responsibility to provide electricity to rural institutions through the Rural electrification Fund (REF), the available resources have not been enough to meet expectations, hence creating a huge backlog.
For 2016, the REF had budgeted to receive a levy of
US$63,555,000 from the REF levy. However, only about
US$36,000.000 was disbursed to the REF leaving a huge gap between what was expected and what was realised. This reduction in the levy revenue impacts negatively on the capacity by the REF to execute planned projects.
Currently REF has been implementing the Rural Electrification
Program in consultation with Rural District Councils and their Provincial Administrators in coming up with priority projects considering the cost of the project to be involved, equity distribution within the provinces and resource availability.
It must be noted that REF is in the process of finalising a Rural Energy Master Plan (REMP) which will act as a guide in implementing the Rural Electrification program. The Master Plan will consider factors such as resource availability, equitable distribution thereof and economic factors.
Once the Rural Energy Master Plan has been finalised, Members may engage the Rural Electrification Fund’s Provincial Offices for details regarding electrification of various institutions of interest to them. It is unproductive for me to be responding to repetitive questions regarding the electrification of thousands of rural schools, clinics, business centres, community centres, farms and villages nationwide.
However, Mr Speaker Sir, allow me to advise Hon Gangarahwe
that the Rural Electrification Fund has no plans to electrify both
Mavhudzi Secondary School in Ward 8 and Muzavazi Secondary
Schools in ward 27 this year. As such, the schools will be considered for electrification under the new Rural Energy Master Plan, once finalised. I thank you.
Questions Witht Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 24 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number
25 has been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON MINES
AND ENERGY ON THE CONSOLIDATION OF DIAMOND
MINING COMPANIES
Twenty Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Mines and Energy on the
Consolidation of Diamond Mining Companies.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Following a
Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Mines and Energy report dated
6th April, 2017 which was presented to the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament on the same date and a letter to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development dated 30th May, 2017 responses to the Committee report are presented below.
Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company was formed following the March 2015 Government pronouncement to consolidate all diamond mining companies in Zimbabwe to form a wholly owned Government company. The Government’s objective was to ensure that there would be transparency, accountability, optimal commercial exploitation and viable marketing of Zimbabwe’s diamonds.
Government’s first step in the consolidation process involved consultations with eight diamond producers and their shareholders at that time. The consultative meetings were meant to seek the consent of these former diamond producers to participate in the envisaged consolidation of their companies, concessions and operations. There was however no consensus for Government’s consolidation proposal with the exception of Marange Resources (Pvt) Ltd which was in full support of the Government’s policy.
At the same time, the special grants which formed the basis of the former diamond producers operations in Chiadzwa had since expired in June 2015 save for the DTZ one which expired in June 2016. In light of this, the Government on 22 February 2016 wrote to all the diamond producers in Chiadzwa advising them that their special grants had since expired and would not be renewed. They were instructed to immediately stop their operation and given 90 days to remove their equipment from the concession areas.
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development issued ZCDC with a Special Grant 6026 on 22 February 2016 which covered all the concessions mined by the former diamond producers as well as new areas, current and future thus vesting the mining rights on ZCDC. ZCDC commenced operations in former Marange Resources concession in March 2016. In addition to Marange Resources operations, ZCDC also started operations by way of evaluation of the resource in Gye Nyame Resources formerly Kusena Diamonds (Ltd) Concessions as these two companies were dormant due to inadequate funding being invested in them.
ZCDC is currently undertaking exploration work in these concessions. Regarding Kusena and Gye Nyame, ZCDC will engage
ZMDC to discuss the acquisition framework. For Marange Resources, ZCDC has since entered into asset purchase and lease agreements. The foreign shareholders in Diamond Mining Corporation (DMC) offered to sell their shareholding to the Government of Zimbabwe to allow ZCDC to access and undertake mining operations in the former DMC concession. Government agreed to this and shares were sold to ZMDC.
After the initial payments of the shares were made to DMC by Government in April 2016, ZCDC started mining operations at the former DMC concession, which we now call Portal Q.
DTZ OZGEO Foreign Shareholders also expressed their wish to sell their shares to the Government of Zimbabwe and negotiations for this transaction were concluded in May, 2017. ZCDC has since fully paid for the foreign shareholder shares, giving it full access to the former diamond miners assets, that is, DTCZ OZGEO including the processing plant. Following this acquisition, ZCDC commissioned the plant on 9
June, 2017 and is currently conducting exploration and evaluation of the conglomerate ore resource that is in that area. Mining of the conglomerate is thus expected or set to commence in July, 2017.
The remaining companies, Mbada, Jinan Mining and Anjin Investments challenged the Government consolidation process and instituted legal proceedings against the non-renewal of their special grants, as well as the Government’s instruction for them to cease their mining operations. Litigation with Anjin and Mbada is continuing in the courts. Regarding Jinan however, the Government concluded the agreement in April 2017, whereby the foreign investor AFECC has been allowed to remove their assets from Zimbabwe, thereby availing the concession to ZCDC’s operations.
Structure of ZCDC
Following the need to have corporate independence and reclaim its identity, in April 2017, ZCDC relocated from offices it rented from
Marange Resources to its new registered address, 35-37 Cosham Road,
Borrowdale. The company will hold an Annual General Meeting
(AGM) in July 2017, in which ZMDC, as well as the Government nominees and the Ministries of Finance and Economic Development and Mines and Mining Development will attend the AGM.
The operations of ZCDC are based on Special Grant Number 6026, which was issued to it by the Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development on 22 February, 2016. The special grant covers an area of approximately 795 800 hectares in the mining district of Manicaland, vests mineral rights on ZCDC and allows ZCDC to carry out mining operations for diamonds and alluvial gold. The special grant is valid for 36 months and is renewable every 36 months. In order to improve compliance monitoring, the organisation has put in place a compliance register which covers statutory regulatory compliance, KPC compliance, as well as IT licences compliance.
Corporate Governance
ZCDC’s thrust is to operate within the laws of Zimbabwe and to adopt best practices, tenets and auspices of the King Report on
Corporate Governance for South Africa (King IV) and the National
Code of Corporate Governance in Zimbabwe. In terms of the corporate governance, the board of directors is currently composed of four members, although in terms of the Memorandum of Articles of Incorporation of the association, a minimum of two board members is required and this number can be increased to a maximum of eight. In terms of the Companies Act and the Articles of the Company, the board in its current form is compliant.
Mrs. S. Chella is a Non-Executive Director and Chair of the board.
Mr. Mukwekwezeke, Non-Executive Director and Mr. Muwisha, NonExecutive Director, Mr. Chiadzwa, Non-Executive Director. The board also established five standing board committees namely: the Strategy and Investment Committee, Technical Committee, Finance Committee,
Audit and Risk Committee and Human Resources and Remuneration Committee to assist in its effective discharge of its duties.
Following the recent assignment of the Permanent Secretaries by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, the Minister of Mines and Mining Development is seized with the appointment of additional members and a new chairperson in line with the provisions of the law. The new chairperson is Mrs. Chella. The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development will oversee the operations of ZCDC through
ZMDC, as well as the Permanent Secretary as the regulator. Madam Speaker, let me clarify this. There was concern at the level of the committee that the ownership of ZCDC is not clear. ZCDC is owned by ZMDC and ZMDC is a corporate body established by an Act of Parliament. That is the ownership of ZCDC through ZMDC which is wholly owned by the Government of Zimbabwe.
The new Permanent Secretary will not be a member of ZCDC. I have already discussed this matter with him. He will play his regulatory role and leave the issues of running ZCDC to the board members. This will ensure transparency and independence of the Ministry as recommended by the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee and its compliance with best practice corporate governance. A substantive Chief Executive Officer, Dr. M.B. Mpofu, on secondment from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe was appointed in March 2017. This has brought about stability in the organisation. The Mineral Resources Executive who was in acting capacity was assessed by the board and confirmed with effect from 1st June, 2017. ZCDC was incorporated under the Companies Act and is owned by ZMDC.
Diamond Production at Chiadzwa
Madam Speaker, let me preface this paragraph by saying, for 12 months we were only able to go into two concessions and all the other concessions were subjudice and therefore we could not operate in all the other concessions; Mbada Concession, Jinan Concession and Anjin Concession. We could not go there to operate because the court cases were still running. However, I would want to say to you that the only court cases that remain is a constitutional court case in respect of Anjin and an appeal by Mbada.
To date, the company has already surpassed its previous year’s production producing 1,039,925 carats in five and half months up to 18 June, 2017 against a total of 961,000 carats produced in 2016. Annual production is expected to increase by 150% to 2.4 million carats for the full year of 2017. For the comfort of Members of Parliament, I now get figures of production at the end of the day from Chiadzwa. At the end of the week, we declare figures to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. So, every week we have got figures that are picked up by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
ZCDC has transformed its diamond mining model from an alluvial based model adopted by most of the former miners to a conglomerate mining business model which requires more intensive investment to unlock significant and sustainable diamond value for the nation.
ZCDC’s future is premised on sustainable conglomerate mining with probable resource estimates totaling 16.8 million tonnes of diamondferous ore in portals A and B (ex-Mbada and ex-Marange respectively) having been identified and earmarked for mining. Another 21.8 million tonnes of conglomerate ore resource to be mined from Portal E, which is ex-DTZ, while DTZ OZGEO claims this resource to be proven, ZCDC geologists are yet to confirm this assertion. So that is the 21.8 tonnes of conglomerate material.
The company is currently mining on three concessions, Portal A, B and E i.e. former Mbada, Marange and DTZ-OZGEO concessions, respectively. The target for this month has not been written here but the target for this month to the end of June is 235 000 carats. We have already mined one million carats that are sitting with the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe as collateral security for the loan financing that we have received from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.
The ZCDC strategic Business Units are shown in the structure below and I have submitted this for the comfort of Members of
Parliament so that you know what is going on in terms of the structure of ZCDC. We have tried to ensure that that structure conforms with internationally established diamond mining companies. (Please see chart on Page 9 of 32 of the report.)
EXPLORATION AND EVALUATION
Exploration and evaluation work was implemented to guide the mining operations in planning and production over the entire mine life. The organisation has 300 million tonnes of ore containing 200 million carats all in the inferred category of ore resource classification, whose confidence level is currently about 20%. We are working now to improve the confidence levels. The 300 million tonnes comprise 20% alluvial and 80% conglomerate ores.
The diamond ore resources has been in the inferred category because geology was not able to carry out the evaluation work to upgrade ore resource to high confidence levels ahead of the production due to inadequate human and financial resources. This slowed down the process of developing systematic, coherent, cost effective and sustainable mining methods, owing to the lack of dedicated earth moving equipment for ore resource evaluation work. Lack of up-to-date geological modeling software for information processing, generation of geological models for production planning and resource estimation greatly affected the performance of ZCDC in 2016. In 2017 following the capitalisation of ZCDC by Government of Zimbabwe and adoption of its new business model, a structured ore resource evaluation approach has been designed which entails the use of geophysics surveys to identify potential mineralised zones ahead of diamond drilling and reverse circulation drilling to confirm the existence of such zones.
Geophysical surveys have already been undertaken at Chiadzwa. Geophysics surveys enable the evaluation of work to focus on resources on potential targets which is both cost-effective and allows for effective utilisation of time. Let me just say that I am on record as having said the companies that were mining in Chiadzwa were not exploration ahead of mining. They were doing exploration with mining and the instruction that we gave to ZCDC is precisely that they must establish a resource and they must have a pre-feasibility study which then identifies the mining methods because the size of the ore body, the nature of the ore body will determine the methods of mining that are required and that is exactly what they are doing and that is what is contained here.
INVESTMENT IN EXPLORATION AND EVALUATION
US$5.6 million budget featuring a full complement of geological equipment requirements has been provided to purchase diamond drilling rigs, reverse circulation rigs, dump trucks, excavators, front end loaders, geology software and revival of sampling plants in all operational portals. The equipment is currently on order and awaiting payment and delivery. ZCDC has further recruited senior experienced exploration geologists and plans are underway to complement the skills by engaging a geophysicist.
Let me just say when I say waiting payment, I mean we have to have the foreign currency in order to make the payment effective for external payments – that is what we are waiting for. The money is in our account to make the payments.
In the second half of 2017, 16 million tonnes of ore containing 10 million carats will be evaluated to increase confidence levels from the current 20% to 85%. The remainder will be evaluated over the medium to long term. In addition, the services of geological consultants will be engaged to provide framework and guidance of the ore resource evaluation work to be compliant with international standards of reporting exploration mineral results such as SAMREC and JORC for production and bankable ore reserve and resource statements.
Exploration and evaluation work outside the diamond portals and alluvial gold is being outsourced to exploration organisations fully resourced for the task as part of futuristic ore resource building. I have provided a table that outlines the ore body that is on each of the portals and the confidence levels, grades and the gem content in the areas.
(Please see chart on Page 12 of 32 of the report.)
ARTISANAL MINING MODEL
The issue of artisanal miners is noted. It is imperative that benchmarking is done and extensive consultation with various stakeholders is undertaken to establish a framework to guide the establishment of a model appropriate for Zimbabwe. With the depletion of alluvial diamonds and subsequent adoption of the conglomerate mining model, there is need to re-evaluate the feasibility of incorporating artisanal mining in Zimbabwe’s diamond sector. Of importance, is the need for a legal framework, a security model and input from international diamond industry stakeholders.
Hon. Members, I hear the issue of can we not allow artisanal miners in diamond mining in Chiadzwa? I think that if you look at the structures of most countries, artisanal miners are found in Sierra Leone in the Manair River, in northern part of Angola; elsewhere diamonds are not done in that manner and because our alluvial diamonds which are usually the object of artisanal miners are towards the end, there is really no need for us to create an expectation in people and saying you will go and mine diamonds when they are towards the end. The conglomerate diamond mining that is currently the programme that we are working on is not an easy way of mining diamonds. The kimberlite diamond mining requires a lot of resources and I would suggest because of the …
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Minister may you please address the Chair.
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: Because of the need for security that
goes with diamonds, if there is a mineral that I have seen that is so difficult to manage Madam Speaker, it is diamonds. You have a parcel here with gem quality, you have near gem quality and industrial, if you want to upset the pricing structure of this parcel. You can just take away five pieces of gems and the whole structure changes – that is how difficult it is. You cannot put $5 million in suitcase but you can put five million worth of diamonds in your pocket and move away – depending on the quality of those diamonds. So the issues of security come into play. I think if we want security and stability of this country, let us allow gold miners in everything else but in diamonds, I think that is recipe for disaster.
OPERATIONAL CAPACITY OF ZCDC
ZCDC is in a sound financial position after having been capitalised by its shareholder to the tune of $80 million through Treasury Bills which will be used to enhance operational capacity. Part of this amount has already been invested towards capacity enhancement initiatives aimed at ensuring organizational stability, growth and sustainability in line with ZCDC business model.
The company also secured $23 million of CAPEX from the RBZ of Zimbabwe as well as US$35 million of loan to purchase equipment from Belarus, you ‘have already started seeing some of the equipment that has entered the country. We expect 21 of those 55 toners to come into the country and they will enhance our capacity to move earth in a very significant way.
Plant capacity – a total investment of US$154 is available for
ZCDC. Security enhancement – security is one of the key aspects. ZCDC has invested in security to ensure that illicit diamond outflows that compromise compliance with Kimberly process certification scheme are curtailed. Between February 2016 and June 2017, significant transformation has taken place in ZCDC security framework. The transformation includes the appointment of the security executive, managers and so on and so forth. We have put in CCTV monitoring systems, we are expecting a drone that will be flying over Marange, 24 hours a day and it will be sending information to a central position where cameras will see what is happening in the entire area of Marange.
So that should be coming on the 24th of June, 2017.
Security has also to do with the people and we have been talking to ensure we agree on how to gratify the people of Marange so that they participate in securing the area.
Cleaning and sorting – we have brought in new technologies for cleaning and sorting the diamond and I want you to know that in the last three weeks, as a result of the cleaning that has been taking place, the near germ to germ has increased from 12% to about 41%, so that for us is a very good thing.
Diamond Marketing – we are not selling diamonds at the moment but when we start, we will go back to the auction and we will ensure that the auction is run as expected. It was run by a company called First Element and their contract expired and it will now be run by MMCZ and a new team to be established. We are establishing a gemology center in Mutare; we have already secured a piece of land in Fan Valley where we will build a gemology centre. I also want this House to know that we also have been offered a gemology centre by the Indian Government which, after my visit to India, we have had discussion and we will have a gemology centre set in Mutare.
Relocating the people – we know that there are people who have not yet been relocated from Marange who are still being affected very negatively by the operations there and we are building new houses and we are finalising the ones that had been built by the companies so that we continue the relocation of people.
I also want to say that in that relocation programme, we will be providing housing water, education, agriculture, security and youth’s employment by way of project that the people can undertake. I also want to assure this House that US$10 million was promised by the companies to the people of Marange, it was not lived up to and we have said to the company that as soon as funds are coming and the company is operating at a profit, we need to honour that issue.
The rest of the issue has to do with the skills mix of our people, how many engineers because there were questions asked by the
Parliamentary Committee, how many technicians we have. I have all the figures here (please see chart on page 20 of the report) their qualifications, it is all contained in this document that I wish, Madam
Speaker to lay I before the House as my response to the report by the Parliamentary Committee on Mines and Energy. I thank you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order! I do not know what Hon. Matuke might want us to do in terms of adjournment of the House but I have got an issue. I am a Member of the Committee on Mines and Energy and I want to raise a complaint, not to the Minister but to the Administration of Parliament. I do not know whether it is a deliberate effort or it was deliberate effort for them to allow the Minister to bring his report in response to the Committee on Mines and Energy. I think next time, what is needed to be done Hon. Minister is whenever a Minister, whether it might be Hon. Chidhakwa or any other Minister for that matter, it is important for the Committee which oversights that particular Ministry to be notified to say that the Minister is going to give a report. We presented our report, it is about two or three months now, and we do not have that report in order for us to cross check for reference purposes on when the Minister will be making a report.
So, I think it is important for us to be given that notification so that at least we can bring the report, we refer to the response on what the Minister will be doing, so that at least we will be on the same level with the Minister. As of now, the Minister has given us, maybe it might be a very good report, it might be a bad response, whatever but at the end of the day, we do not have the report to cross check on the responses which the Minister has brought to us. I think that is the complaint which I just wanted to raise.
Secondly, now that the Minister has presented the report to us, like what I said again, I do not know what Hon. Matuke’s intentions are? Is he going to ask for the adjournment of the House? If so, how are we going to respond, for example I have got so many issues which I wanted the Minister to respond to. We have got some issues which we wanted the Minister to respond. So those are the two issues which I thought maybe before Hon. Matuke could have said whatever he wanted to say, in as far as the adjournment of the House, maybe I might be wrong but I just seek your clarification.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mnengami, usually when
the Minister gives a response, it is after the debates have been done. So, the report was there and people were debating, so it is not the administration that can push people to debate on the report but you as Members of Parliament and your Committee Chairperson can always be lobbying for your report to be debated at any time.
Now, that the Minister has responded, it is the Chairperson of the
Committee that will respond to the issues that the Minister has raised.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I have heard what you have said, Hon. Speaker and I am not even arguing but my issue was for example, let us say today, maybe our Chairperson was around, he might also have wanted to respond but the unfortunate part of it is that he might not have his own report in order for him to allow to cross check or to reference responses to the Minister. I think in future, it is very important to allow the Committee to know when the Minister is going to respond in order for them to be prepared to make some responses to the report that the Minister would have presented.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Member, but the Chairperson still has the time to respond to the Minister because we are not adopting the report by the Minister. This gives him even more time
to do it.
I want to appreciate and applaud the Members of Parliament from
Swaziland for their dedication and commitment in serving the people. They have been in Parliament when we started and they are still here, showing that they are very responsible Members of Parliament and I wish our Members of Parliament can copy the standard and values that they represent. I really want to appreciate them – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
HON. MUNENGAMI: I Just have one wish Hon. Speaker. For example when we presented the report to Parliament, I never debated on it – [HON. RUNGANI: Where were you?] – Chief Whip muri mai vangu ndokudai zvisingamboiti…
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Munengami…
HON. MUNENGAMI: Sorry Hon. Speaker. My question which I
want to raise is; because I did not manage to debate, can I be allowed to debate now? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
Hon. Mukwangwariwa having been speaking.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mukwangwariwa, I am the Speaker of Parliament – [HON. MAONDERA: And hamusisina quorum futi.] - Order Hon. Member, can you please sit down. I am happy that Hon. Munengami is a law student and you really understand that in law, we deal with certain procedures and values. So, with what has already happened, we can only resolve it for other reports but you can no longer debate on the motion.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Why – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: It is according to the procedure of
Parliament.
HON. MATUKE: Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON. MPARIWA, the National Assembly adjourned at Twenty Eight Minutes
Past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 21stJune, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the
presence in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the delegation from Swaziland, Hon. Titus Thwala, leader of the delegation, Hon. Sikhumbuzo Dlamini and Mr. Mpendulo Ngcamphalala, you are most welcome – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
OPEN LEARNING CENTRE CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOPS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to remind the House
that the Open Learning Centre is inviting Chairpersons of Committees to two half day capacity building workshops on Friday, 23rd and Monday,
26th June, 2017 at Meikles Hotel, Mirabelle Room, from 0800 hours to 1400 hours on each day. Lunch and refreshments will be provided.
TABLING OF REPORTS
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Madam
Speaker, in terms of Section 12 (1) of the Audit Office Act [Chapter 22: 18], I lay upon the table the reports of the Auditor-General for the year ended December 31, 2016 being: -
- Narrative report on Appropriate Accounts, Finance Accounts,
Revenue Statements and Fund accounts;
- Narrative report on State Enterprises and Parastatals; and
- Narrative report on Local Authorities, Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
Thank you.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have a list of Members of Parliament and Ministers who sent in their apologies; Hon A. Ndhlovu; Hon. Dr.
Mpofu; Hon. VP. E. Mnangangwa; Hon. VP. Mphoko; Hon. Chinamasa;
Hon. Kasukuwere; Hon. S. Nyoni; Hon. D. Parirenyatwa; Hon. Bimha;
Hon. Prof. J. Moyo; Hon. Muchinguri; Hon. S. K. Moyo; Hon. J. D.
Hungwe and Hon. Dr. J. Gumbo.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to just give a motion on a point of privilege for Hon. Members to note that there is now available tea and coffee machine for their use in the Members Bar that was not there before. It is especially made for female Hon. Members who might not visit the bar because they might not know it and it is at a cost. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. My concern and the reason why I am rising is that whilst I commend those Hon. Ministers who have indicated that they are not able to attend today’s session and that is an improvement from the past practice where there was simply no recognition that this is an important occasion in terms of our Constitution Section 107 as read in conjunction with our Standing Orders Number 63 and 26.
My worry is that for the second week running, last week we had a situation where an organ of a political party had its sitting last week and we did not raise any concern because we appreciate it that they have some important business to transact. Our concern is that for the second Wednesday in a row, we are now having a situation where the Ministers who have given their apologies are actually attending a meeting of an organ of a political party. If we are to follow the dictates of our Constitution, we must prioritise matters of the State over matters of a political party.
In our Constitution, we made special provision that all Ministers, Vice Presidents and Deputy Ministers must avail themselves to answer questions coming from Members of Parliament and it is enshrined in our supreme law or Bible, so to speak, in so far as the nation is concerned.
We strengthened that position in the Constitution by adding in the
Standing Orders in terms of Standing Order Number 26 that any
Minister who fails to attend Parliament in order to answer questions is in contempt of Parliament. I get very concerned and worried that we do not take this seriously.
Today, if you look on your right Madam Speaker, there are very few Ministers because some of them are attending that meeting. I have said before and I will repeat it – it is important for all political parties especially those from where the Ministers are coming to schedule their meetings on a day which is not a Wednesday. We have got the whole weekend where they can transact the business which they failed to finish last week. We want to place it on record that this is not acceptable and again we have a scenario where the Vice President is not here who is
Leader of the House. He has not designated any other Minister to be the Acting Leader of the House. The person who sometimes acts as Leader of the House, Hon. Chinamasa is also not available because he is attending the same Politburo meeting. So, when we have got matters of policy which Hon. Members representing their constituencies want to put to Hon. Ministers, they have no one to ask.
In order to indicate our displeasure at their conduct, we must do something as this august House. I will actually ask all Hon. Members that perhaps we may have to resort to a situation where we defer
Question Time so as to indicate our displeasure at this course of conduct.
The timing is very poor because in terms of the sitting calendar Madam Speaker, we are actually supposed to be adjourning Parliament today for the next two weeks. In other words, if there are pertinent questions which Members wanted to ask, they would have been overtaken by events. I think that the timing is particularly very bad. For that reason, I want to emphasise that it is not appropriate for the political party in question to show its disdain for matters of State and put matters of their party ahead matters of the State. Those are my submissions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. All the
points you made are very much valid. As the Chair, I am as well worried that on my right I was expecting Ministers even those who are not in the Politburo but I think as a House, someone was suggesting a proposal and we can agree on such a proposal.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: There are many Hon. Members who
are capable of being Ministers who are on the other side in the ruling party but they are here because there are some who are holding on to those posts. As Parliament, to show that we are serious and that we were voted in by people, I think we should note down the names of the Ministers who did not send any apologies and we charge them so that they can pay a fine of contempt of Parliament. They will know that as the Chair sitting there, you have a right to lead this House. It is my suggestion that the Clerk should compile the names of the Ministers who did not put any apologies so that they can be charged and then we send the ruling to the President because they are not doing their work properly. We can confiscate their cars or office keys to show our disgruntlement.
Hon. Dr. Made comes each and every week and he is punctual. We really respect that. I think we should come up with a resolution as Parliament that those Ministers who do not send their apologies we should charge them with contempt of Parliament for looking down upon this House.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those are the ideas coming from Hon. Chamisa that we should compile a list of Hon. Ministers who are absent without leave. I am still consulting on that proposal. I urge Hon. Members to direct their questions to those Ministers who are present.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Madam
Speaker. I am not taking away what Hon. Chamisa has indicated as a proposal, which you said you are consulting on. So, that remains on the table and we are supporting that. However, I just think that as Hon. Gonese had raised, we need to take a position as Parliament to indicate that we are actually quite unhappy because when we continuously go on with the programme, we legitimize this kind of behavior. So, we need to take a stand where we say if they are not willing to come and unfortunately those that have come would have to also be taken on the basis of others. We just do not ask questions. We have got a whole agenda that is there; we have motions. We can defer Question Time and do Question Time when they are here. That is my proposal Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I know you
need to see Cabinet Ministers but according to the Constitution, the Deputy Minister is also a Minister. We can have questions posed to the Deputy Ministers and they will respond. I think we can proceed because there are so many Deputy Ministers and Ministers. We can go ahead.
However, I take the issue of listing down.
Hon. Members according to the Chair, I think we can proceed with questions to those Ministers who are present because I am being advised that among the Ministers, there are some answers from other Ministers.
We can proceed with questions to those Ministers who are here.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have not recognised you
Hon. Member – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. MATUKE: Madam Speaker, I think you have already
made a ruling. For a Vice President from the opposition to come and challenge your ruling, I think it is not fair. So, I am proposing that we proceed with Questions Without Notice.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am
actually just rising to support you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can we have
order.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, I rise to thank you for the ruling that you have made that we proceed with the Ministers who are here present. I am also happy to realise that you have said we should take down the names of the Ministers who are not here present so that they are charged for contempt of Parliament. I want to thank you and I hope the Clerk is compiling.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, Hon. Made. Maize is being taken to GMB and we are hearing that there is a lot of moisture content and the maize is being returned. After it has been returned, it is being sold on the black market and it is not finding its way to GMB. What plans do you have that the grain will not end up in the hands of unscrupulous people?
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):
Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking such a pertinent question. It gives me a chance to explain to our farmers so that the nation at large can understand. We take our maize to GMB with moisture content of 12.5%. This season, we see that most farmers grew long season varieties and because of the incessant rains, the grain has not dried completely. Why I thank the Hon. Member is that she said when the farmers go back, they sell to other buyers whom we are afraid will bring the same grain to GMB and would short change the farmer. So, I am going back to investigate this issue with GMB. There are times when we say 12 and a half to 13% moisture content but our fear is that if we have a lot of grain with that moisture content of 13%, it will rot in our granaries. So we want to look at the grain that is going for milling and waiver the 12.5%. We also do not want the Grain Marketing Board to pay for the moisture weight or excess moisture; we should have a good balance on that. I plead that you give me time to go and investigate then I will bring an exact answer to the august House. Thank you.
*HON. MLISWA: Before people harvested it was said that there were collection points and driers to be erected. If driers are there, why are they not being used? At the collection points, why do the GMB officers not go to collection points to collect samples of whether or not the moisture content is right instead of having people ferry their grain to the GMB only to be returned? There was mention of a collection point in the driers, is there anything like that?
*HON. DR. MADE: Thank you Hon. Mliswa for that question. All that has been mentioned is in plan. These are places where farmers are but some of the driers were not functioning and are being resuscitated especially those in the A1 and A2 areas. Like I stated before, this year’s harvest irrespective of whether it is from A1 or A2, countrywide we have maize that has completely dried. I agree with him that farmers should not take their grain to GMB to wait in long queues especially those who want to store their grain in silos. It would be proper for it to be collected and tested. I am saying the GMB should disburse sacks to farmers in time for them to store their grain for ease of transportation.
On collection points, I said that samples should be collected from there. I concur with his suggestion so that farmers do not waste time travelling only to be turned away.
*HON. MURAI: Do you not have a department which teaches new farmers of when to harvest instead of them to harvest maize that is not ripe for harvest? You should know these are new farmers so they need training on when to harvest matured crop. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order now you are
making noise. The Hon. Minister is responding to the question.
*HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon.
Member for his question. There are a lot of things that a farmer takes into consideration in growing his crop. Once his harvest is ripe, most farmers will be afraid of veld fires. We have had police reports that some farmers are engaging in arson, so we should help the farmers so that they harvest their crops in time.
I want to assure the Hon. Member that we have Agritex officers to educate farmers and they work in conjunction with GMB in training new farmers on when to harvest and take their grain to the GMB. We thank the farmers for the effort they are making in taking their grain to GMB.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you not have a supplementary question? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
HON. MANDIPAKA: No. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, I know, I am presiding
over this House.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: When maize is being transported to the GMB, we have farmers who engaged in command agriculture and others who were funded. When you go to Kadoma, there are farmers who used their personal money and would spend about two weeks but you will find that those who engaged in command agriculture do not take time to sell their grain. Is it Government policy that those who funded themselves wait longer to sell their grain than those who engaged in command agriculture?
*HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, that is a very specific question. I think the Hon. Member should put the question in writing and allow us to conduct investigations because it is now an allegation.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Minister of Home Affairs has gone out, so I recognise – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is now there!] – I know what I am saying. He had gone out when Hon. Mandipaka wanted to pose his question.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, this is how you waste time when you want to ask questions. You are busy making noise president; president that has nothing to do with the business of the House.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. May the Hon. Deputy Minister explain whether Government has any policy that is water tight to ensure that police uniform, regalia and kit does not fall into bad hands that tarnish the image of the force when such uniform is used by unauthorised persons. Do you have any policy in place? I thank you. *THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Yes, there is a very strong policy which embraces even the camouflage; including the security forces uniform, that if you are to be found abusing it in unofficial duties; you have to face criminal charges. It is standing there in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*HON. MANDIPAKA: Madam Speaker, I wanted to find out
from the Hon. Minister whether there is a policy, because he is talking of a charge. I am asking for a policy in Government that ensures that that regalia does not fall into bad hands. I thank you.
HON. MGUNI: That is what I said. Yes, it is there. I will bring it to the Hon. Member for him to see and read.
*HON. MANGWENDE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question
is directed to the Hon. Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development, Hon. Dr. Made. What are you doing about the chicken disease called Avian influenza that has widely spread throughout the country affecting chickens?
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank the Hon. Member for asking a question concerning the Avian influenza. Firstly, I want to say that the disease is not wide spread. If it had been widespread, we would not be having any chickens left because it is really a menace. So, that is why I am thanking the Hon. Member because it gives me an opportunity to explain about the state of the disease.
Many people are falsely stating that it is widespread, but that is not the case. The disease is especially spread by migratory birds.
HON. MURAI: On a point of order! Can the Hon. Minister raise his voice like what he does when he is at a rally dishing out rice –
[Laughter.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you are being
asked to raise your voice so that all the Hon. Members in the House will hear.
*HON. DR. MADE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. This disease is spread by migratory birds. The animals that are normally attacked by this disease are birds. Chickens which were greatly affected were those at Irvines, because there is a way that they look after their chickens and they have veterinary specialists who look after their chickens. Chickens which were affected are breeders, those which produce eggs for reproduction of broilers.
These chicken birds are quarantined in their rooms and the surrounding areas are protected. So, the first room, the birds died because of that disease. After investigations, it was discovered that these chickens died because of Avian influenza. According to our policy, the Chief of the veterinary services who is in charge took precautions to kill all the other chickens in surrounding areas, that is three chicken runs were affected. So, the area was quarantined and we are about to finish the quarantine period and there is no other chicken which has been affected by this disease. I thank you.
*HON. BEREMAURO: Thank you Madam Speaker. What plans has the Government taken concerning countries like Botswana who have banned chicken exports to their countries?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister has
answered what has to do with the disease. If you have a different question, not as a supplementary question.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy on the removal and restoration of road blocks on the roads? I am asking that because you have said in the media, road blocks will be removed and there will be few on the roads. However, what is surprising is that road blocks are still in place and they are many.
Is it a matter of time to implement what you said? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. Your question is very pertinent Hon. Member. What should be clear to Zimbabweans is that there is no policy on road blocks because it is something that is done as a security measure against criminals. We will not be in Norton from six to six waiting for criminals; you will not catch any criminals. Therefore, we will pitch road blocks wherever they should be because we are looking for criminals. However, because we see that road blocks are many in the country and disturbing the smooth movement of workers and students, it makes relations to be poor between regulators and users and as such they should be reduced. That is the Government programme to provide easey ways of doing business. As home affairs, we should be compliant to that programme so as to facilitate ease of doing business. I thank you Madam Speaker.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Minister. I hear you. However, considering that some of the road blocks are being mounted by bogus police, what do you say about it? What have you done about it? On two occasions, bogus police officers were involved. What do you say about bogus police officers’ operations?
+HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Those
doing that are apprehended and put in prison. Secondly, we have a programme of electronic traffic control which will make it possible for those bogus police officers to be identified because they will not be having those gadgets. That person who will be found carrying a book when it is no longer in use and all those bogus police officers will be arrested. I thank you.
+HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. There is an issue that police officers are now holding motorists accountable on the road because the seats of their vehicles will be torn. Is that Government policy?
+HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The police are
there to prevent crime, protect property and life. Therefore when an accident occurs that can lead to fatalities, yes, the police have the right to do that. If it is torn such that it can cause fatalities, the police have the right to protect the life of those seated on that seat. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, the question from Hon. T.
Khumalo was, what is the law that provides that if a seat of a car is torn, it is an offence? We expect the Hon. Minister to cite a specific law and not explain.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I do not want
to misquote the Act. However, can he write down that specification?
Hon. Members having stood up to debate +HON. J. TSHUMA: Sit down.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I am presiding, just ask
your question.
+HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. I would like to understand what policy has Government put in place when this matter was raised before. The people who stay in urban areas, when they are seeking to obtain birth certificates, we, their representatives do not have any right to vouch for them as what chiefs do in the rural areas. Here in towns, do we have a law that allows us and the councilors to vouch for these people so that they are able to get birth certificates here in town, instead of being referred to communal areas? Some come from
Rusape or Binga. Do we have a law that allows us as Members of
Parliament and councilors to vouch for these people? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The Act which is in place does not provide for a Member of Parliament or a councilor to vouch because it was done specifically for communal areas. If we were to incorporate the urban people, there is nothing written for Members of Parliament or councilors to vouch. I thank you.
HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to understand what your department can do so that we are also incorporated so as to help the people. What is in place now was done for the people in communal areas. What can we do now so that we can also change the law so as to incorporate the rotation of the people in the urban areas? Is there something that you can do?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Yes, there is something we can do because our Members of Parliament who are in urban areas can combine and bring a motion so that you debate it and then we will make a Bill out of it. I thank you.
HON. KHUPE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Madam Speaker, many accidents have happened in the past and some of them recently and many people have died in the process. Some of these accidents are caused by throwing of spikes. I witnessed a police officer in Gweru last week throwing a spike. This is a very dangerous act. What is Government doing to make sure that they stop this dangerous act of throwing spikes because it has killed many people including the police officers? This act must be stopped. I think the police can come up with ways and means of stopping cars rather than using this dangerous act where many people have died. What is Government doing to stop this act?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I received a lot of phone calls and a lot of help from Hon. Adv. Chamisa and we quoted the Act which was indicating that if we found any police officer who throws a spike on a mobile car, there is a minimum sentence of three years. I think you remember this and it was published on papers because a spike is not a weapon or a tool to throw. It is laid on the ground to control the movement of traffic. So we clearly did that but however, I also want to elaborate that most of the deaths on the road are not from the spikes because we have got the statistics. They are from speeding drivers who do not have licences, the unfit vehicles and state of the roads. So there are a lot of contributing factors towards the death toll that we received on the road. I thank you Madam Speaker – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible
interjection.]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, muzvibate.
+HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question is that from morning, police will be holding these spikes which have chemicals. It is a health hazard when they hold these spikes for a long time. So, what Government policy do you have to avoid this health hazard?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is now different from the
original question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister, you indicated that you have put in place a law that shall fine police officers who throw spikes guilty of an offence. However, beside waiting for that to occur, what measures are you taking as a Ministry to ensure that police officers in their training and retraining are taught not to throw spikes when they are conducting their duties? Thank you.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. We did not bring the law now. It was already there on the Act. We are just activating and creating awareness to the officers on duty to know so that the memorandums are sent every now and then so that they know that they do not have to throw spikes to a motorist.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is, does the Government not have alternative methods which do not entail the use of spikes? The Minister could enlighten us whether there is any other country which has police officers moving around with spikes because from my own personal observations,
I have never come across any other country where you find police officers moving around with spikes, which in the process of executing their duties can be abused. It is difficult to regulate whether the police officers are going to follow the law and lay them on the road as opposed to a situation where they throw them. The Hon. Deputy Minister could clarify for us as a nation on that aspect? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, you are
now shouting, particularly Hon. Wadyajena please.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker and thank you Hon. Gonese for your question. We are Zimbabweans and I think what we should do is to contribute and come up with a better solution if that one is bad. Let me use two countries as an example because he said are there other countries that do such things. We have Belgium. Recently they shot the rear wheel of a truck that refused to stop on a road block, they shot the rear wheel and that truck rolled out. In South Africa, in each standard roadblock, there will be two flying squad vehicles. When somebody refuses to stop on the road block, those vehicles are there to chase that car like a Hollywood movie, but it has created a lot of accidents when people are chasing each other.
A spike as I have been identifying it in Parliament is a tool that is laid down on the road to control traffic. It should only be applicable to a person who refuses to stop on the road block. You cannot throw a spike to someone who is adhering to the rules of the road. Therefore, the spike is put on the ground for those who disobey the rules. That is exactly what we have and the country has got its own laws which may not be the same as the other counties. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Perhaps the Hon. Deputy Minister did not understand the question. The question was whether they have explored the possible use of other methods which do not entail the use of spikes. In his response, it was quite clear that the examples which he gave have nothing to do with the use of spikes and instead, relate to the use of alternative methods. So, if the Hon. Deputy Minister could clarify to us whether Government has plans to explore the possibility of doing what other countries are doing, whereby they can have police officers chasing after a motorist who will have refused to stop. Also, in his response, it appears that he is not aware of any other country where police officers use such a primitive method. Could he specifically tell us which other country in the world uses such a primitive method to try and stop motor vehicles?
HON. MGUNI: When I began answering the Hon. Member, I said, as Zimbabweans, we can come together and bring up any other method that everyone thinks is better than what the police is using. We do not refuse but we have not seen anyone coming forth and that is why the police have invented their own method to stop those mushikashikas. Secondly, there are road disobeying motorists that have killed police officers. If you look at this issue of spikes, it is in the courts right now. I was just generous to answer the question, The police presented full evidence showing that five of their officers have broken legs and they can no longer stand in front of the vehicles or lift up their arms to try to stop the errant motorists. So, if somebody has a better way of stopping those criminals, please bring it, our office is open. We will not even refuse the proposal.
HON. TOFFA: Minister, considering the fact that most of these cars that are having spikes thrown under are kombis that are carrying innocent people and people are dying, can he not stop the police from throwing these spikes because people are dying. Is it legal to throw these spikes?
HON. MGUNI: That is the exact answer I gave through the help of Advocate Chamisa. We managed to clear the air and said it is illegal to throw a spike at a moving vehicle.
*HON. MAHOKA: My question is directed to Hon Mguni. What is the Ministry doing concerning aliens who were born in this country whom you are saying should bring $40,00 to renounce citizenship yet they were born here. In our Constitution on Section 35, it says; it is the right of children and for a person in Zimbabwe to be given an Identity Card.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): We have got a Statutory Instrument which I remember came into effect in 2009, which says that the aliens can change their birth certificates or identity cards by paying a $40,00 fee. She is correct because it is written like that in the Statutory Instrument. However, it was presented in this Parliament by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development because they are the ones that peg the fees that are paid. There was no dispute from the Hon. Members present. What Home Affairs is doing is just to execute that Statutory Instrument. However, if they have identified that it is too expensive for the aliens, we can move a motion in order to rectify that Statutory Instrument.
*HON. MAHOKA: He has explained very well but what he is
saying relates to the old Constitution whereas we are referring to the new Constitution which stipulates that “a child who was born in
Zimbabwe” in the new Constitution and not the old Constitution.
HON. MGUNI: As I explained before, there are Bills that are coming to Parliament because the Act is saying another thing and the Constitution is saying something else. So, we need to drive the Act to align it to the Constitution and then we can execute our work properly.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Perhaps to just seek
further clarification from the Minister of Home Affairs, like Hon. Mahoka said, Section 35 (1) says persons are Zimbabwean citizens by birth, descent and registration. The question that therefore follows is that as we speak right now, those people have identity cards that define them as citizens. Why then are they being asked to pay a fee to become citizens when they are already citizens by the mere fact that they do have an identity card and we have Section 35 (1)?
HON. MGUNI: It is exactly what I explained that the fees are pegged by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Can they direct that question to the relevant Minister?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to draw the Minister to Section 2 of the Constitution which talks about the supremacy of the Constitution. It says; “this Constitution is the supreme law of Zimbabwe. Any law, practice, custom or conduct inconsistent with it is invalid to the extent of its inconsistence.” What I want to say is that we have glorified this creature called alignment of laws and the majority of us have decided not to abide by the Constitution and glorified an animal called alignment of laws. The Constitution is very clear. If you are a Zimbabwean you get a birth certificate without paying a penny. If there is a Statutory Instrument that says pay $40 and this Constitution came into effect, why are we labouring ourselves about an unlawful practice when the
Constitution is very clear – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear.] -
HON. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, I do not want to contradict with the supreme law of the country which is the Constitution. I have heard what Hon. Ziyambi is saying and I have to call an urgent meeting with my Ministry and spell out that thing so that we can rectify the problem. *HON. MAKARI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Does the Government have a policy which prevents girls or women who sell their bodies from abuse by the police? If there is a law pertaining to that, was it publicised? – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Hanzi mahure].
HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, there is no point of order. *HON. NYAMUPINGA: Pane zvirikutaurwa. We cannot have a person achitaura kuti mahure muno umu. We cannot have that Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Speaker of Parliament was
very clear on what is a point of order in the House. If it does not refer to the procedures and to a certain Member of Parliament, then it will not be a point of order - [HON. ZWIZWAI: It refers to our voters.] -
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Madam Speaker, if the Speaker of
Parliament read something from here, probably you did not understand.
The Hon. Member who said that should withdraw - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. MAPIKI: I did not say that word but she said commercial sex workers. In Shona, it still comes to the same word “hure” – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I, therefore welcome the point
of order raised by Hon. Nyamupinga but it is important to acknowledge that the direct translation of what is being said is exactly what Hon. Mapiki is saying – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Let me finish my ruling – [AN HON MEMBER: Ko varume vanonzi chii?] - It is important in this House to acknowledge that it is very unparliamentary to use that word – [HON. MEMBERS: Why?] - Hon.
Mapiki, I ask you to withdraw that word – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - Can Hon. Mapiki withdraw the word
“mahure?”
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I can withdraw if you give me the proper word. I withdraw.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I did not hear you. Can you
please withdraw? I will not allow your point of order. Hon. Mapiki, I did not hear you. Can you please withdraw.
*HON. MAPIKI: Hon. Speaker, I withdraw but can you tell me what the word commercial sex worker says?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mapiki, can you
approach the Chair – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Members from my right. I will not allow any point of order until I am done with Hon. Mapiki. Hon. Mapiki, can you withdraw.
*HON. MAPIKI: “Ndasvomhora” – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Hon.
Members from my right side, can you please sit down. Hon. Members, let me do my work. I said Hon. can you withdraw.
HON. MAPIKI: I withdraw.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in respect of Section 6 of the Constitution which talks about languages that we can use in this House. We do not want you to deprive us of that section. Languages namely: Chewa, Chibarwe, English, Kalanga, Koisan, Shona can be used. Why are you depriving us from using our mother tongue in this House but you encourage us to use English – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Hon.
Members from my right side, can you please sit down. Hon. Members, I have made a ruling on this issue. All languages apply in this House but there are words that are very unparliamentary and I will not allow them as I chair – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and that is final. Can Hon. Deputy Minister Mguni respond to the question?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Madam Speaker, I am aware that there is no Act that grants commercial, whether it is social or what workers. I am afraid to name it. It is not yet approved that they can do their work. However, it does not constitute police to abuse such people because you cannot even abuse a person you arrested committing crime. As police, you need to be professional. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I move that the time for Questions
Without Notice be extended by 30 minutes.
HON. MUPFUMI: I object.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a matter of privilege, Standing
Order 68 (d). Hon. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity on a matter of privilege just to indicate that earlier on across the divide, we raised our concerns around some of the Ministers without excuse. There are some who have sent their apologies and we appreciate but there are those who have not. We have counted the number of Ministers and I will go to the Deputy Ministers. We just have about four of them and there are those who have not come.
I want to say Hon. Speaker and I seek the indulgence of Hon. Members. We have Ministers who have not been coming to Parliament and it is always important for us to raise these things so that the names are recorded. Hon. Mguni, I want to say in as much as you may not have all the answers, we want to appreciate your kind effort to try and answer questions – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I want to say he makes an effort. You may disagree with answers but he takes his duties seriously and we appreciate. Hon. Dr. Made, we appreciate you and all the Ministers who managed to come. We may not agree with you as Members of Parliament but we appreciate you. Those whom we have not mentioned, we hope that you will earn our confidence next time.
Hon. Speaker, I stood up to say there are Ministers who have been consistent in coming to Parliament and those who are not. Allow me, because it is a procedure of Parliament in terms of our Standing Orders to cite and mention those names so that if they have a duty to then come to the Speaker to say we were doing this and that, it is their responsibility. Their names must be known so that Parliament records.
It is our duty as an oversight arm of Government to say MPs have asked Members of Cabinet to do their duty. We are doing our duty by being here, so I have got names.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Chamisa may I interrupt you before you proceed to that stage.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Sure Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members I really appreciate what Hon. Chamisa has said, it is very important and we know it is very true and a fact. So we this in mind, as Hon. Members of Parliament, we cannot do that task thoroughly but I would love the Parliament administration to give us a list of those ministers who have been coming to Parliament from 2013 when they were appointed to now. How many have been consistent in their Parliament attendance and those who have not come today. I think for it to be fair, let us have the administration make a list on who has been coming and how many times so that we can publish what is factual. Are you agreeable to that suggestion Hon. Chamisa?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, we are not
here to embarrass our Hon. Ministers and I appreciate that the effort is to make sure that they come. So we await the kind gesture and reserve because we had already compiled the list. We are going to authenticate and validate the effort of the technical team and will help them should they fail to do it because we have the names and ready to do it.
On that score, because it is a matter of privilege again, Hon.
Chidhakwa had said he was going to give us a Ministerial Statement on the $15 billion. I hope that he will kindly favour – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Muzukuru wangu but we want him to favour Parliament with a response on the $15bn. It is such an important matter that we want to know where the $15 billion is. – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Point of order!] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Before I have another
point of order, may I have Hon. Chidhakwa to respond on the issue of the Ministerial Statement concerning the issue please, just when you will be able to table the report.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I made an undertaking that I would give a Ministerial Statement to explain the issue of the $15 billion and what work is being undertaken. I also said – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order the Hon.
Minister is responding and you are making noise.
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: I also said that would include the work that is being done by the Auditor-General. I am guided also by how much work has taken place there but I will be explaining to you what the situation is. I thank you. – [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Point of order!] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no other
question pertaining to the issue because the Hon. Minister has responded. May you please approach the Chair Hon. Chinotimba? –
[HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the point…] – Hon. Mliswa I have not appointed you. May you please approach the Chair as well?
Hon. Chinotimba and Hon. Mliswa approached the Chair.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
RECOURSE TAKEN BY FARMERS WHO HAVE NOT
BENEFITTED FROM PROCEEDS OF TREASURY BILLS
- HON. KANHANGA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain to the House the recourse that may be taken by farmers who have not benefited from the proceeds that were put towards the purchase of Treasury Bills since 2007.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Hon. Members will recall
that Government took over the RBZ debt in 2015, through the RBZ Debt Assumption Act. The assumed debt had, among other creditors, farmers. Government currently issues creditors with Treasury Bills after reconciliation with the Debt Management Office housed under my Ministry.
Farmers who have since completed the reconciliation exercise have already been issued with Treasury Bills, whilst those who have not yet been issues should approach our Debt Management Office with a view
to reconcile the outstanding amounts before Government can issue Treasury Bills.
POLICY REGARDING DEBT TAKEOVER OF STRATEGIC
COMPANIES
2 HON. CHIKOMBA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain the policy regarding debt takeover of strategic companies such as David Whitehead Textiles.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Hon. Members will be
aware that Government does not take over debt from private companies. However, Government realised that due to economic challenges, a number of companies were failing to service their loans with commercial banks. In response, Government incorporated the Zimbabwe Asset Management Company (ZAMCO) with the primary mandate to efficiently resolve the problem of high Non Performing Loans (NPLs) of banking institutions in Zimbabwe through acquiring, restructuring, managing and disposing the NPLs.
All strategic companies, including David Whitehead should, therefore, approach ZAMCO.
LOAN AGREEMENT WITH AFRICA IMPORT-EXPORT BANK
FACILITY ON BOND NOTES
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development -
- to state when the loan agreement that gave rise to the $200 million Africa Import Export Bank ‘facility’ for the bond notes was concluded;
- to indicate whether or not its terms were published in the Government Gazette ; and whether or not this was done in 60 days in terms of Section 300 (3) of the Constitution; and to explain the terms of the said parent loan agreement;
- to indicate whether or not the loan agreement that gave rise to the facility was referred to Parliament in terms of Section 327 (3) of the
Constitution; and whether or not it was referred to the relevant Portfolio Committee in terms of the Standing Orders. If not, when will it be so referred?
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, the $200
million Africa Import Export Bank Facility for the bond notes is not a loan but a facility. In this regard, the issues being asked about a loan agreement and reference to Section 300 (3) of the Constitution do not apply.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Madam Speaker, I wish to raise a point of privilege. I am disappointed that the Hon. Minister is circumventing the question. The question is clear and he is not answering the question. I asked this question before about what he is referring to that is the $200 million Afrexim Bank loan and the Minister cleverly avoided answering the questions and avoiding the obligations in terms of the Constitution by claiming that it is not a loan but a facility. Therefore, this question is arising from his answer then.
Yes, I get it. He said that the $200 million Afrexim Bank loan is not a loan but a facility. What I am asking now is, if it was not a facility. Can he then give details about the parent loan agreement that gave rise to a facility because a facility is always a facility, in terms of a loan? A facility is something that is directly derived from a loan. So, there must be an agreement which allows facilities. That is the question and he is not answering. I am really concerned because it does not look like the
Minister is taking my question seriously. He is deliberately avoiding it.
I am not asking about AFREXIM bank facility itself but I am asking about the parent loan that gave rise to the AFRIXEM bank facility. It is very clear; we have gone through this before. I am asking this because of what he said before. In terms of the Constitution, there is an obligation to answer the question.
HON. DR. MADE: Madam Speaker, it is very clear in the response and the Hon. Member acknowledges that the question has been answered. If she has a new question, certainly, there is no harm in the Hon. Member restating the question in the manner she is restating it so that the Minister can answer.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, I think the
question has been answered but if you want precisely the other way of questioning, then you can write another question.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Speaker, as a Member of Parliament, I
was elected by my constituents to represent them. This is a very important issue. I think it is unfair for Ministers to avoid questions. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development was in this House and I
asked him a question about the US$200 million AFRIXEM Bank loan
and the Minister said it is not a loan, it is a facility. So, exactly what the
Minister said is what he said about the US$2 00 million AFRIXEM
Bank facility.
Now, this question is not about that. The Acting Minister of Finance, Hon. Made should not give me an answer that he gave me about the US$200 million AFRIXEM Bank facility. I want an answer about the parent loan that gave rise to that facility. He said I should put it in writing but this is what is there in writing on the Order Paper, I do not know what part of writing it is that the Minister does not get. The Minister cannot avoid answering; he has an obligation in terms of the
Constitution to answer this question. So, can he please now answer it?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister could you
answer the question now or you need more time to research?
HON. DR. MADE: I know that the Hon. Member might want to give the position in that. The answer that I have given, I have responded - to be very honest. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, I think you can
then write another question elaborating the specific question.
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker it is not possible to elaborate.
I do not know what part of the question the Minister does not understand. This is a point of privilege Hon. Madam Speaker. This is an evasion of the question. This is an answer that he gave in relation to the US$200million AFRIXEM Bank facility. My question is not about the facility, it is about the parent loan that gave rise to the facility.
Madam Speaker, if you go to your bank and you have an agreement with your bank, you can get a loan and it is in agreement with your bank but pursuant to that loan agreement, your bank can give you a facility to draw from time to time. So, I am not asking about that facility, I am asking about that original, the base agreement that allows them to get that facility. It is in writing Madam Speaker, it is so clear. I do not know what I can further elaborate. If the Minister does not want to respond to the question, that is fine but not to pretend - I cannot write it over and over again. It is very clear.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will refer back the question to
the Minister so that they can do another research on the question to be able to respond on the requirement by the Hon. Member.
FERTILIZER FOR MR. GODFREY TICHARWA VAMBE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House when Treasury will release funds for payment to Mr. Godfrey Ticharwa Vambe for his five tonnes of ammonium Nitrate Fertilizer that he bought in 2008 from the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) depot in Harare under the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Input Scheme.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I would
appreciate if the Hon. Member could furnish me with more details so that I can take it up and facilitate the payment being sought. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker, I rise also to raise a point of privilege. I originally asked this question to the Hon. Minister of Agriculture who ironically is the one who is answering this question on behalf of the Minister of Finance. I am sure, even as he is Acting as the
Minister of Finance, he is the same Minister who said he will not answer that question; he will only make that money available to Mr. Vambe when Treasury avails that money and I should ask the Minister of Finance.
Now, I ask the Minister of Finance, he comes back with another cloak, he says, oh, he should get more detail and as the Minister of
Agriculture, he knows about this. He even got a copy of the letter of Mr.
Chitarwa Godfrey Vambe who did not get his inputs since 2008. Surely, I do not know what details he wants because I have been tossed from pillar to post and this is very disrespectful.
This is a constituent who has been waiting for his maize, he gave money to the GMB, the Minister of Agriculture says, I do not know, ask the Minister of Finance. I ask the Minister of Finance with details, he says I should give him more details and he is the same person, by the way.
HON. DR. MADE: I think Madam Speaker, with all fairness, I am responding on behalf of the Minister of Finance, to be very frank. I have responded to the Hon. Member as Minister of Finance for her to give me more details. I do not think we should confuse and say the same person standing there is the Minister of Agriculture, that is not fair. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIR: Hon. Dr. Made, right now, is
standing as the Minister of Finance and the response that he has given you is adequate in accordance with the Ministry that he is representing.
You must furnish them with more details in order for them to respond.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Speaker, can I get your help to ask the
Acting Minister of Finance to get the details from the Minister of Agriculture who has those details because this is a question that I asked him – he has those details. The Minister of Agriculture referred me to the Minister of Finance, so through your help, can you please ask him to get those details from the Minister of Agriculture, including the letter to the G.M.B that I gave him.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, I do not think it
is workable for the other Ministry to give instruction to another Ministry; you are the Member of Parliament representing the constituency. You can go to the Ministry and get the details then you can furnish the Ministry of Finance with details that you have in order for them to give you a response.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order! Madam Speaker, with due respect, I understand and appreciate Hon. Minister Made’s response that he is not the Minister of Finance. In so doing it becomes very difficult for him to answer other questions, so what is the point of us continuing asking him questions. We must be very clear on this. what does the Constitution say when one is Acting, he must be able to be conversant with whatever he is going to say and to me it is pretty clear that the
Minister is not the one responsible for Finance and Economic Development but for Agriculture.
So, it is equally important and I wish the Deputy Minister of
Finance was here to respond because he under studies. What is the
Deputy Minister of Finance doing if he is not here because when
Minister Made in Agriculture is not here, Hon. P. Zhanda is here or Hon. Mharapara is here? So, what is the role of the Deputy Minister? This just creates a whole lot of problems which exposes our Executive at the end of the day. This is a total waste of tax payer’s money where we expect people to be able to be answerable to Parliament. We cannot take this lightly, if the Minister is not here to respond and he is in charge of that Ministry, it is recommended that you actually suspend or your defer those questions to another date when the responsible Minister is here because this is an absolute waste of time. I have no time to be here listening to an Acting Minister who cannot answer things adequately.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): There is no
point of order here Hon. Mliswa. Hon. Minister Made has given a response from a technical side of the Ministry. It is in writing, that is why we said submit it because it is written. He can respond to all the financial questions that are arising. He is very competent in that Ministry and he can respond to all questions.
POLICY ON BUSINESS PEOPLE BANKING DAILY TAKINGS
FROM SALES
- HON. A. MNANGAGWA asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to explain the policy that compels the business people in retail shops, wholesales and others to bank their daily takings from sales with the banks in order to ease the financial cash shortages that the country is currently faced with.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I want to
thank the Hon. Member. The policy set out under the Bank Use Promotion Act [Chapter 24:24].
- Section 10 of the Act requires all businesses to have bank accounts.
- Section 11 requires businesses to bank all their cash receipts.
- Section 13 requires the businesses to maintain records of their sales and what they bank on a day-to-day basis.
Madam Speaker, non-compliance with the obligations is a criminal offence that is punishable through a fine or imprisonment or both. This law is designed as a tool to combat tax evasion and money laundering as well as to promote efficient circulation of cash in the economy through official banking channels. The policy also discourages illicit cash dealings.
So far, the following three firms have been sentenced and fined the indicated amounts for not complying with the Bank Use Promotion Act;
- Builders Home Hardware - US$17 000
- Bathroom Boutique - US$9000
- Eurostar Electricals - US$20 000
On behalf of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development,
I thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: My supplementary question to the Acting Minister of Finance and Economic Development is that, it is well to name and shame those people who are not banking their cash. However, we once asked in this august House that, most Ministers and Members of Parliament are running businesses and is there evidence that they are banking their cash so that the whole nation will follow suit. It is not fair to push other businesses to bank their cash yet Ministers and Members of Parliament – I believe 90% of them who are running businesses are not banking their cash. What assurance can you give to the nation?
HON. MADE: Hon. Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for raising the question. I will not respond on a speculative basis. These are very specific areas as asked. If the Hon. Member has a specific name or company, you can put it in writing and an appropriate response will be given. Speculatively, I think that is not fair. Thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I hear what the Hon. Minister is saying that we should not be speculative. Without speculation or equivocation, have it on good authority. I went to ZINARA for example and not insist that they only accept cash. Why is Government not leading by example and not insist that they only accept cash instead of allowing citizens and also lead by example so that we move to a cashless society by activating the e-platform because it is convenient for a lot of people? However, there are circumstances where you go there, even in the registration, if you go to Immigration, they have those problems and these are Government Departments but we continue to have those problems. Why is Government allowing this to happen?
HON. MADE: Certainly, I want to appreciate the issue as raised by Hon. Member in the supplementary question. If there are specific areas as he has already named specific institutions, we will certainly take up the matter on those institutions named. Indeed, it is the objective of Government that certainly, the public institutions should assist and lead by example. Thank you.
CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE BY ZIMBABWE
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY AUTHORITY (ZESA) ON HOSTING
ZANU PF PARTY CONFERENCE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Energy and Power
Development;
- a) to explain to the House why Zimbabwe Electricity Supply
Authority (ZESA) Holdings flighted an advertisement in The Herald on 14 December, 2016 to congratulate the President of Zimbabwe for successfuly hosting his annual ZANU PF political party conference on
14 to 18 December, 2016, despite Section 196 (3) (a) of the
Constitution’s requirements of public officers’ objectivity and impartiality;
- to state the cost of the advertisement;
- to state the benefit of the advertisement to electricity consumers;
- to inform the House whether or not the advertisement was budgeted for and for how much; and
- to indicate to the House whether or not ZESA will also flight advertisements to congratulate other political parties such as MDC-T and MDC for holding events.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): Thank you Madam
Speaker. As correctly pointed out, ZESA Holdings congratulated His
Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe on the hosting of the party’s National Conference out of respect for the Office of the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe. The advertisement cost US$890. Indeed, the electricity customers tend to benefit especially if one takes into account what the President has achieved in terms of securing funding from the Chinese Government for the mega projects such as Kariba Power Station Extension and Hwange Power Station Expansion. Thanks to the relationship between ZANU PF and the Chinese Communist Party, these two projects have now managed to get much needed funding and the contribution to the economy in terms of availing a total of 900 megawatts to the economy is immeasurable.
ZESA Holdings includes advertisements in its annual budget and the 2016 budget was no exception. ZESA Holdings always supports the Office and person of the President of Zimbabwe who has been duly elected by the people and whosoever assumes that office will be supported by ZESA. ZESA is owned by the Government and the President is the Head of State and Government. I thank you Madam
Speaker.
HON. MAJOME: Supplementary question Hon. Madam Speaker.
I notice that the Hon. Minister said that he put this advertisement to congratulate the President of ZANU PF out of respect for the Office of the President. Is the Hon. Minister aware that the Office of the President is the office of a State President in terms of the Constitution and is not a party office? If he is aware, why is he using the Office of the President and mixing it up with a party function?
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, the most important
point is that he was congratulated in his capacity as the President of Zimbabwe and Head of Government. Of course, it is a known fact that he comes from ZANU PF party and as a party, there are certain relationships which they exploit to benefit Government. I thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Can you
respond to Question No. 19 (e).
Hon. Adv. Chamisa having stood up to make a supplementary question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. I just
wanted to let Hon. Minister Undenge finish Question No. 19 (e) to indicate to the House whether or not ZESA will also flight adverts to congratulate other political parties such as MDC-T and MDC for holding such events. That was the other question by the Hon. Member.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier on, the congratulation was to the President and Head of Government by virtue of the fact that he holds that office. It is the person who holds that office who will be congratulated. Thank you.
HON. MAJOME: I have a follow up question Madam Speaker?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your follow up
question?
HON. MAJOME: I need to refresh the Hon. Minister’s memory
about what the advert actually says. The advert says that they congratulate Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe for the successful hosting of the 16th People’s Annual Conference. That clearly refers to the party. Is the 16th Annual People’s Conference a State Conference or is it a Conference of ZANU PF political party? May be he has forgotten because I have got the advert right here. Are you aware that electricity consumers are unhappy about using State funds to fund political party publicity?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think Hon. Majome the
Minister has responded to your question when he said –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Yes, the Hon. Minister has responded. Hon. Minister, can you repeat your response because I thought I heard you clearly.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, perhaps let me reiterate the answer which I gave. I mentioned that ZESA Holdings always supports the Office and person of the President of Zimbabwe who had been duly elected by the people. Whosoever assumes that office will be supported by ZESA. In this particular instance, ZESA congratulated the President for hosting a successful Annual Conference. It was in connection with that. As you know, I mentioned that the Head of State comes from ZANU PF party. I thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I really appreciate what the Minister of Energy has said. My question to the Minister is whether he is aware that by condoning that kind of conduct, the Minister and the entity are both unconstitutional in violating the Constitution of Zimbabwe in particular, Section 194 on the basic values and principles governing public administration because these are State entities. They are not supposed to be partial in any way, either in the discharge of their duties or even in the allocation of resources that belong to the people. So, is he aware that by the mere conducts, we are infracting and tearing apart the
Constitution of Zimbabwe? He has a duty to uphold the Constitution. Is he going to do anything to try and stop that conduct and behavior because it is clearly unconstitutional? Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, perhaps the Hon. Member can benefit from the fact that it is not only ZEZA which congratulated the President for holding such a successful conference. A lot of private sector companies, commercial entities and ZESA is a privatised company which has its own board and the Minister does not interfere with the operations on a day to day basis. It is not a policy issue on the other hand. So, it has that decision and following on what it would have decided on. It is not something unique but it is something which is done by several commercial entities. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I think
the Minister is clear in his response. This is the last supplementary question.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, you are right that ZESA is an operation that has got its own board. However, it is a State owned enterprise and therefore, in terms of policy, it is guided by Government. So, the question is whether it is Government policy that you should take public resources and use them to congratulate political parties. Simply answer the question. It is your responsibility because you are the one that gives policy direction. So, it is the policy. Do not avoid the question.
- [HON. MACHINGAUTA: Musazvipamhe.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Machingauta, can you
withdraw what you have just said?
HON. MACHINGAUTA: Ndinomedza zvandataura.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Unomedza kuti chii?
HON. MACHINGAUTA: Ndinomedza zvandataura zvekuti
vasazvipamha.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Madam Speaker, I think I have been very
clear on this matter that ZESA as a commercial entity did so respecting and congratulating the President in his capacity as the Head of Government and having done something which was commendable.
Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: All supplementary questions
have been exhausted. I will not allow any other.
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
You address me and not the Minister.
HON. MAONDERA: My point of order is that at some point, the
Minister promised to come to this House with a ministerial statement regarding prepaid meters. How far has he done because residents are suffering and there is a lot of corruption and they are being duped of their hard earned cash? At some point, he promised to come with a response in the form of a ministerial statement and it has been a long time before we received that ministerial statement.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The point of order was not
arising but I will allow the Hon. Minister to respond when he will bring the ministerial statement.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): I agree with you Madam
Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. You are
talking about a ministerial statement that he has to bring and he said he is agreeing to that.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: I will bring the ministerial statement
Madam Speaker.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: I think it is important to follow up. This very Hon. Minister, on 10th February 2017, he promised before this House after he was ordered to submit a Ministerial Statement pertaining to the formation of a company called Genesis, which is set to compete with Petro Trade. To date, it is four months and three weeks down the line, the Hon. Minister has not brought that Ministerial Statement. Therefore, I think it is important that the Hon. Minister should give us a date so we can hold him accountable. Otherwise like the Genesis one, we will wait until after the elections for the Hon. Minister to bring a Ministerial Statement. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think Hon. Members, your
points of order are not arising but I will allow the Minister to tell the House when he will be ready to bring the Ministerial Statement.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: I will bring it when I am ready with the response.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maondera, withdraw
your statement.
HON. MAONDERA: I withdraw that he must just apologise and
resign.
ELECTRIFICATION OF JOTSHOLO DISTRICT REGISTRY
OFFICES
- HON. M. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the House when electricity supplies would be connected to the Jotsholo District Registry offices in view of the fact that quotations were done by the Ministry officials.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): I want to thank the Hon.
Member for his question.
Though quotations have been made, no payment has been received yet by ZETDC for connection fees. However, Jotsholo Clinic tee-off
50kVA, 33/0.4KV transformer is burnt but the line is healthy and is on. At the moment, there are no replacements for burnt transformer, procurement of the transformers is in progress and supplies will be restored as soon as the transformers have been delivered. The delays in the procurement are mainly due to unavailability of foreign currency, which is being managed by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
HON. M. KHUMALO: We are happy that they have done
quotations but he mentioned that the clinic which relied on a transformer is in the district town where there is also ARDA and a lot of work is happening there. If the transformer is not found, what is the Minister’s plans to ensure that a transformer from other sources around is put there so that the clinic and township are functional?
HON. DR. UNDENGE: As I have already said, there is a general shortage of transformers in the country. My Ministry and ZESA have initiated a process of ordering those transformers and importing the spares so that those transformers which can be manufactured locally will be manufactured here. As I said earlier on, some of the transformers have been affected because of the incessant rains which we had in the past. Some have been vandalised and in total, there is a shortage of
4000 transformers. As they will be delivered, we will prioritise areas such as clinics. So, the Hon. Member should bear with us as it will be rectified as soon as we have the transformers.
HON. M. KHUMALO: I think he did not understand me. What I
am saying is that in the constituency, there are other lines that have transformers but the lines are not functional. Can the Ministry not take a transformer that is not being used elsewhere in the constituency and put it at the clinic, which is a sensitive area?
HON. DR. UNDENGE: I understand what the Hon. Member is
saying. We will follow that up with the officers of ZETDC to see if there is a transformer lying idle in the area so that it is put at the clinic.
The matter will be followed up. I thank you.
PLANS TO ENSURE TIMEOUS PAYMENT TO FARMERS
- HON. CHISOROCHENGWE asked the Minister of
Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to inform the House what plans the Ministry has to ensure that farmers are timeously paid as a way of encouraging that they sell their produce to the authorised buyers such as the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) instead of withholding such produce due to cash shortages.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): I want
to thank the Hon. Member and respond as follows that resources have been mobilised to pay farmers who deliver grain to the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) timeously. I am aware that in some cases though in terms of cash requirements, that might be an issue but all the farmers that have bank accounts are being paid timeously. This season we also have proof that last season it was the same. I thank you.
POLICY REGARDING REPAYMENT TO HERMISTON
IRRIGATION SCHEME
- HON. KAZEMBE asked the Minister of Agriculture,
Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to inform the House what Government policy is regarding repayment in a case scenario similar to the one at Hermiston Irrigation Scheme in Mazowe West Constituency where farmers received incomplete equipment under the Brazil facility resulting in their failure to utilize it and to further state when the farmers are expected to start honouring their repayment obligations.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):
Hermiston Irrigation Scheme received a complete set of irrigation equipment. Farmers who benefited from the Brazil facility are expected to honour their repayment obligations starting from December 2016.
HON. KAZEMBE: My supplementary question is that maybe the
Minister is not aware that these people did not receive all the equipment that they require. As I am speaking right now, they cannot utilise the equipment. Initially, they did not have a transformer and now the transformer is not connected. They do not have a cable. They have had this equipment for almost a year now and it is not working. They are expected to start paying back.
HON. DR. MADE: I think the Hon. Member very correctly is now
referring to the ZESA issues. I am referring to the agriculture equipment. So, that is a matter that we can only take but otherwise as relating to the equipment from Brazil, they did receive all the equipment. The issue he is raising relates to ZESA connections which we will deal with.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
REFUSAL OF BOND NOTES BY MULTICHOICE (DSTV)
- HON. CHIRISA asked the Minister of Finance Economic
Development what steps the Ministry is taking over the issue of refusal by Multichoice (DSTV) Zimbabwe to accept bond notes from customers for their monthly subscriptions.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I believe
the issue being raised by the Hon. Member has been overtaken by events. As we speak, Madam Speaker, all traders are accepting payment in bond notes.
STRATEGIES TO MOBILISE RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES
- HON. N. MGUNI asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to state what strategies the Ministry has put in place to mobilise resources to cater for the needs of persons with disabilities as required by the provisions of the Constitution.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. I am pleased to inform this House that all efforts are being taken to ensure that budgeted resources that are due to persons with disabilities are disbursed as timeously as possible. My Ministry has since disbursed the resources that were budgeted for the Disabled Persons Programme in the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare for 2017.
Members may also wish to know that disabled persons are given priority in other programmes that are under the respective Ministry’s mandate such as support to vulnerable groups under the Drought Mitigatory Programme, Health Assistance Programme and BEAM.
Treasury prioritises the release of funds to the Ministry of Public Service and Social Welfare due to the fact that most beneficiaries under this
Ministry’s programmes are vulnerable and need support from the State.
CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE BY ZIMBABWE ELECTRICITY
SUPPLY AUTHORITY (ZESA) ON HOSTING ZANU PF PARTY
CONFERENCE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Energy and Power
Development:
- a) To explain to the House why Zimbabwe Electricity Supply
Authority (ZESA) Holdings flighted an advertisement in The Herald on 14 December, 2016 to congratulate the President of Zimbabwe for successfully hosting his annual ZANU PF political party conference on 14 – 18 December, 2016 despite Section 196(3)(a) of the Constitution’s requirements of public officers’ objectivity and impartiality;
- To state the cost of advertisement;
- To state the benefit of the advertisement to electricity consumers;
(d)To inform the House as to whether or not the advertisement was budgeted for and for how much; and
(e) To indicate to the House whether or not ZESA will also flight advertisements to congratulate other political parties such as MDC – T and MDC for holding events.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. UNDENGE): Mr. Speaker Sir, let me thank
the Hon. J. Majome for raising the above questions. Allow me to respond as follows:
- As correctly pointed out, ZESA Holdings congratulated His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe on the hosting of the Party’s National Conference out of respect for the Office of the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe.
- The advert cost $890.
- Indeed, the electricity customers stand to benefit, especially if one takes into account what the President has achieved in terms of securing funding from the Chinese Government for the mega projects
Kariba Power Station Expansion and Hwange Power Station Expansion.
Thanks to the relationship between ZANU (PF) and the Chinese Communist Party. These projects have now managed to get much needed funding and their contribution to the economy in terms of availing a total of 900MW to the economy is immeasurable.
- ZESA Holdings includes advertisements in its annual budgets and the 2016 Budget was no exception.
- ZESA Holdings always supports the Office and Person of the President of Zimbabwe who has been duly elected by the people and whosoever assumes that office will be supported by ZESA. ZESA is owned by Government and the President is the Head of State and
Government.
Mr. Speaker Sir, some Hon. Members in this Hon. House seem to politicize anything. It is our considered view that we would serve the electorate better by focusing on material issues.
ELECTRIFICATION OF MUZAVAZI AND MAVHUDZI
SECONDARY SCHOOLS
- HON. GANGARAHWE asked the Minister of Energy and
Power Development to inform the House when the Rural Electrification
Agency would electrify Muzavazi Secondary School in Ward 8, in Mhondoro- Mubaira Constituency.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. UNDENGE): Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministry has recently been overwhelmed by questions from Hon. Members here who want to know when certain institutions in their respective constituencies shall be electrified. In this regard Mr. Speaker Sir, while it is the Government’s responsibility to provide electricity to rural institutions through the Rural electrification Fund (REF), the available resources have not been enough to meet expectations, hence creating a huge backlog.
For 2016, the REF had budgeted to receive a levy of
US$63,555,000 from the REF levy. However, only about
US$36,000.000 was disbursed to the REF leaving a huge gap between what was expected and what was realised. This reduction in the levy revenue impacts negatively on the capacity by the REF to execute planned projects.
Currently REF has been implementing the Rural Electrification
Program in consultation with Rural District Councils and their Provincial Administrators in coming up with priority projects considering the cost of the project to be involved, equity distribution within the provinces and resource availability.
It must be noted that REF is in the process of finalising a Rural Energy Master Plan (REMP) which will act as a guide in implementing the Rural Electrification program. The Master Plan will consider factors such as resource availability, equitable distribution thereof and economic factors.
Once the Rural Energy Master Plan has been finalised, Members may engage the Rural Electrification Fund’s Provincial Offices for details regarding electrification of various institutions of interest to them. It is unproductive for me to be responding to repetitive questions regarding the electrification of thousands of rural schools, clinics, business centres, community centres, farms and villages nationwide.
However, Mr Speaker Sir, allow me to advise Hon Gangarahwe
that the Rural Electrification Fund has no plans to electrify both
Mavhudzi Secondary School in Ward 8 and Muzavazi Secondary
Schools in ward 27 this year. As such, the schools will be considered for electrification under the new Rural Energy Master Plan, once finalised. I thank you.
Questions Witht Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 24 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number
25 has been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON MINES
AND ENERGY ON THE CONSOLIDATION OF DIAMOND
MINING COMPANIES
Twenty Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Mines and Energy on the
Consolidation of Diamond Mining Companies.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Following a
Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Mines and Energy report dated
6th April, 2017 which was presented to the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament on the same date and a letter to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development dated 30th May, 2017 responses to the Committee report are presented below.
Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company was formed following the March 2015 Government pronouncement to consolidate all diamond mining companies in Zimbabwe to form a wholly owned Government company. The Government’s objective was to ensure that there would be transparency, accountability, optimal commercial exploitation and viable marketing of Zimbabwe’s diamonds.
Government’s first step in the consolidation process involved consultations with eight diamond producers and their shareholders at that time. The consultative meetings were meant to seek the consent of these former diamond producers to participate in the envisaged consolidation of their companies, concessions and operations. There was however no consensus for Government’s consolidation proposal with the exception of Marange Resources (Pvt) Ltd which was in full support of the Government’s policy.
At the same time, the special grants which formed the basis of the former diamond producers operations in Chiadzwa had since expired in June 2015 save for the DTZ one which expired in June 2016. In light of this, the Government on 22 February 2016 wrote to all the diamond producers in Chiadzwa advising them that their special grants had since expired and would not be renewed. They were instructed to immediately stop their operation and given 90 days to remove their equipment from the concession areas.
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development issued ZCDC with a Special Grant 6026 on 22 February 2016 which covered all the concessions mined by the former diamond producers as well as new areas, current and future thus vesting the mining rights on ZCDC. ZCDC commenced operations in former Marange Resources concession in March 2016. In addition to Marange Resources operations, ZCDC also started operations by way of evaluation of the resource in Gye Nyame Resources formerly Kusena Diamonds (Ltd) Concessions as these two companies were dormant due to inadequate funding being invested in them.
ZCDC is currently undertaking exploration work in these concessions. Regarding Kusena and Gye Nyame, ZCDC will engage
ZMDC to discuss the acquisition framework. For Marange Resources, ZCDC has since entered into asset purchase and lease agreements. The foreign shareholders in Diamond Mining Corporation (DMC) offered to sell their shareholding to the Government of Zimbabwe to allow ZCDC to access and undertake mining operations in the former DMC concession. Government agreed to this and shares were sold to ZMDC.
After the initial payments of the shares were made to DMC by Government in April 2016, ZCDC started mining operations at the former DMC concession, which we now call Portal Q.
DTZ OZGEO Foreign Shareholders also expressed their wish to sell their shares to the Government of Zimbabwe and negotiations for this transaction were concluded in May, 2017. ZCDC has since fully paid for the foreign shareholder shares, giving it full access to the former diamond miners assets, that is, DTCZ OZGEO including the processing plant. Following this acquisition, ZCDC commissioned the plant on 9
June, 2017 and is currently conducting exploration and evaluation of the conglomerate ore resource that is in that area. Mining of the conglomerate is thus expected or set to commence in July, 2017.
The remaining companies, Mbada, Jinan Mining and Anjin Investments challenged the Government consolidation process and instituted legal proceedings against the non-renewal of their special grants, as well as the Government’s instruction for them to cease their mining operations. Litigation with Anjin and Mbada is continuing in the courts. Regarding Jinan however, the Government concluded the agreement in April 2017, whereby the foreign investor AFECC has been allowed to remove their assets from Zimbabwe, thereby availing the concession to ZCDC’s operations.
Structure of ZCDC
Following the need to have corporate independence and reclaim its identity, in April 2017, ZCDC relocated from offices it rented from
Marange Resources to its new registered address, 35-37 Cosham Road,
Borrowdale. The company will hold an Annual General Meeting
(AGM) in July 2017, in which ZMDC, as well as the Government nominees and the Ministries of Finance and Economic Development and Mines and Mining Development will attend the AGM.
The operations of ZCDC are based on Special Grant Number 6026, which was issued to it by the Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development on 22 February, 2016. The special grant covers an area of approximately 795 800 hectares in the mining district of Manicaland, vests mineral rights on ZCDC and allows ZCDC to carry out mining operations for diamonds and alluvial gold. The special grant is valid for 36 months and is renewable every 36 months. In order to improve compliance monitoring, the organisation has put in place a compliance register which covers statutory regulatory compliance, KPC compliance, as well as IT licences compliance.
Corporate Governance
ZCDC’s thrust is to operate within the laws of Zimbabwe and to adopt best practices, tenets and auspices of the King Report on
Corporate Governance for South Africa (King IV) and the National
Code of Corporate Governance in Zimbabwe. In terms of the corporate governance, the board of directors is currently composed of four members, although in terms of the Memorandum of Articles of Incorporation of the association, a minimum of two board members is required and this number can be increased to a maximum of eight. In terms of the Companies Act and the Articles of the Company, the board in its current form is compliant.
Mrs. S. Chella is a Non-Executive Director and Chair of the board.
Mr. Mukwekwezeke, Non-Executive Director and Mr. Muwisha, NonExecutive Director, Mr. Chiadzwa, Non-Executive Director. The board also established five standing board committees namely: the Strategy and Investment Committee, Technical Committee, Finance Committee,
Audit and Risk Committee and Human Resources and Remuneration Committee to assist in its effective discharge of its duties.
Following the recent assignment of the Permanent Secretaries by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, the Minister of Mines and Mining Development is seized with the appointment of additional members and a new chairperson in line with the provisions of the law. The new chairperson is Mrs. Chella. The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development will oversee the operations of ZCDC through
ZMDC, as well as the Permanent Secretary as the regulator. Madam Speaker, let me clarify this. There was concern at the level of the committee that the ownership of ZCDC is not clear. ZCDC is owned by ZMDC and ZMDC is a corporate body established by an Act of Parliament. That is the ownership of ZCDC through ZMDC which is wholly owned by the Government of Zimbabwe.
The new Permanent Secretary will not be a member of ZCDC. I have already discussed this matter with him. He will play his regulatory role and leave the issues of running ZCDC to the board members. This will ensure transparency and independence of the Ministry as recommended by the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee and its compliance with best practice corporate governance. A substantive Chief Executive Officer, Dr. M.B. Mpofu, on secondment from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe was appointed in March 2017. This has brought about stability in the organisation. The Mineral Resources Executive who was in acting capacity was assessed by the board and confirmed with effect from 1st June, 2017. ZCDC was incorporated under the Companies Act and is owned by ZMDC.
Diamond Production at Chiadzwa
Madam Speaker, let me preface this paragraph by saying, for 12 months we were only able to go into two concessions and all the other concessions were subjudice and therefore we could not operate in all the other concessions; Mbada Concession, Jinan Concession and Anjin Concession. We could not go there to operate because the court cases were still running. However, I would want to say to you that the only court cases that remain is a constitutional court case in respect of Anjin and an appeal by Mbada.
To date, the company has already surpassed its previous year’s production producing 1,039,925 carats in five and half months up to 18 June, 2017 against a total of 961,000 carats produced in 2016. Annual production is expected to increase by 150% to 2.4 million carats for the full year of 2017. For the comfort of Members of Parliament, I now get figures of production at the end of the day from Chiadzwa. At the end of the week, we declare figures to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. So, every week we have got figures that are picked up by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
ZCDC has transformed its diamond mining model from an alluvial based model adopted by most of the former miners to a conglomerate mining business model which requires more intensive investment to unlock significant and sustainable diamond value for the nation.
ZCDC’s future is premised on sustainable conglomerate mining with probable resource estimates totaling 16.8 million tonnes of diamondferous ore in portals A and B (ex-Mbada and ex-Marange respectively) having been identified and earmarked for mining. Another 21.8 million tonnes of conglomerate ore resource to be mined from Portal E, which is ex-DTZ, while DTZ OZGEO claims this resource to be proven, ZCDC geologists are yet to confirm this assertion. So that is the 21.8 tonnes of conglomerate material.
The company is currently mining on three concessions, Portal A, B and E i.e. former Mbada, Marange and DTZ-OZGEO concessions, respectively. The target for this month has not been written here but the target for this month to the end of June is 235 000 carats. We have already mined one million carats that are sitting with the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe as collateral security for the loan financing that we have received from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.
The ZCDC strategic Business Units are shown in the structure below and I have submitted this for the comfort of Members of
Parliament so that you know what is going on in terms of the structure of ZCDC. We have tried to ensure that that structure conforms with internationally established diamond mining companies. (Please see chart on Page 9 of 32 of the report.)
EXPLORATION AND EVALUATION
Exploration and evaluation work was implemented to guide the mining operations in planning and production over the entire mine life. The organisation has 300 million tonnes of ore containing 200 million carats all in the inferred category of ore resource classification, whose confidence level is currently about 20%. We are working now to improve the confidence levels. The 300 million tonnes comprise 20% alluvial and 80% conglomerate ores.
The diamond ore resources has been in the inferred category because geology was not able to carry out the evaluation work to upgrade ore resource to high confidence levels ahead of the production due to inadequate human and financial resources. This slowed down the process of developing systematic, coherent, cost effective and sustainable mining methods, owing to the lack of dedicated earth moving equipment for ore resource evaluation work. Lack of up-to-date geological modeling software for information processing, generation of geological models for production planning and resource estimation greatly affected the performance of ZCDC in 2016. In 2017 following the capitalisation of ZCDC by Government of Zimbabwe and adoption of its new business model, a structured ore resource evaluation approach has been designed which entails the use of geophysics surveys to identify potential mineralised zones ahead of diamond drilling and reverse circulation drilling to confirm the existence of such zones.
Geophysical surveys have already been undertaken at Chiadzwa. Geophysics surveys enable the evaluation of work to focus on resources on potential targets which is both cost-effective and allows for effective utilisation of time. Let me just say that I am on record as having said the companies that were mining in Chiadzwa were not exploration ahead of mining. They were doing exploration with mining and the instruction that we gave to ZCDC is precisely that they must establish a resource and they must have a pre-feasibility study which then identifies the mining methods because the size of the ore body, the nature of the ore body will determine the methods of mining that are required and that is exactly what they are doing and that is what is contained here.
INVESTMENT IN EXPLORATION AND EVALUATION
US$5.6 million budget featuring a full complement of geological equipment requirements has been provided to purchase diamond drilling rigs, reverse circulation rigs, dump trucks, excavators, front end loaders, geology software and revival of sampling plants in all operational portals. The equipment is currently on order and awaiting payment and delivery. ZCDC has further recruited senior experienced exploration geologists and plans are underway to complement the skills by engaging a geophysicist.
Let me just say when I say waiting payment, I mean we have to have the foreign currency in order to make the payment effective for external payments – that is what we are waiting for. The money is in our account to make the payments.
In the second half of 2017, 16 million tonnes of ore containing 10 million carats will be evaluated to increase confidence levels from the current 20% to 85%. The remainder will be evaluated over the medium to long term. In addition, the services of geological consultants will be engaged to provide framework and guidance of the ore resource evaluation work to be compliant with international standards of reporting exploration mineral results such as SAMREC and JORC for production and bankable ore reserve and resource statements.
Exploration and evaluation work outside the diamond portals and alluvial gold is being outsourced to exploration organisations fully resourced for the task as part of futuristic ore resource building. I have provided a table that outlines the ore body that is on each of the portals and the confidence levels, grades and the gem content in the areas.
(Please see chart on Page 12 of 32 of the report.)
ARTISANAL MINING MODEL
The issue of artisanal miners is noted. It is imperative that benchmarking is done and extensive consultation with various stakeholders is undertaken to establish a framework to guide the establishment of a model appropriate for Zimbabwe. With the depletion of alluvial diamonds and subsequent adoption of the conglomerate mining model, there is need to re-evaluate the feasibility of incorporating artisanal mining in Zimbabwe’s diamond sector. Of importance, is the need for a legal framework, a security model and input from international diamond industry stakeholders.
Hon. Members, I hear the issue of can we not allow artisanal miners in diamond mining in Chiadzwa? I think that if you look at the structures of most countries, artisanal miners are found in Sierra Leone in the Manair River, in northern part of Angola; elsewhere diamonds are not done in that manner and because our alluvial diamonds which are usually the object of artisanal miners are towards the end, there is really no need for us to create an expectation in people and saying you will go and mine diamonds when they are towards the end. The conglomerate diamond mining that is currently the programme that we are working on is not an easy way of mining diamonds. The kimberlite diamond mining requires a lot of resources and I would suggest because of the …
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Minister may you please address the Chair.
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: Because of the need for security that
goes with diamonds, if there is a mineral that I have seen that is so difficult to manage Madam Speaker, it is diamonds. You have a parcel here with gem quality, you have near gem quality and industrial, if you want to upset the pricing structure of this parcel. You can just take away five pieces of gems and the whole structure changes – that is how difficult it is. You cannot put $5 million in suitcase but you can put five million worth of diamonds in your pocket and move away – depending on the quality of those diamonds. So the issues of security come into play. I think if we want security and stability of this country, let us allow gold miners in everything else but in diamonds, I think that is recipe for disaster.
OPERATIONAL CAPACITY OF ZCDC
ZCDC is in a sound financial position after having been capitalised by its shareholder to the tune of $80 million through Treasury Bills which will be used to enhance operational capacity. Part of this amount has already been invested towards capacity enhancement initiatives aimed at ensuring organizational stability, growth and sustainability in line with ZCDC business model.
The company also secured $23 million of CAPEX from the RBZ of Zimbabwe as well as US$35 million of loan to purchase equipment from Belarus, you ‘have already started seeing some of the equipment that has entered the country. We expect 21 of those 55 toners to come into the country and they will enhance our capacity to move earth in a very significant way.
Plant capacity – a total investment of US$154 is available for
ZCDC. Security enhancement – security is one of the key aspects. ZCDC has invested in security to ensure that illicit diamond outflows that compromise compliance with Kimberly process certification scheme are curtailed. Between February 2016 and June 2017, significant transformation has taken place in ZCDC security framework. The transformation includes the appointment of the security executive, managers and so on and so forth. We have put in CCTV monitoring systems, we are expecting a drone that will be flying over Marange, 24 hours a day and it will be sending information to a central position where cameras will see what is happening in the entire area of Marange.
So that should be coming on the 24th of June, 2017.
Security has also to do with the people and we have been talking to ensure we agree on how to gratify the people of Marange so that they participate in securing the area.
Cleaning and sorting – we have brought in new technologies for cleaning and sorting the diamond and I want you to know that in the last three weeks, as a result of the cleaning that has been taking place, the near germ to germ has increased from 12% to about 41%, so that for us is a very good thing.
Diamond Marketing – we are not selling diamonds at the moment but when we start, we will go back to the auction and we will ensure that the auction is run as expected. It was run by a company called First Element and their contract expired and it will now be run by MMCZ and a new team to be established. We are establishing a gemology center in Mutare; we have already secured a piece of land in Fan Valley where we will build a gemology centre. I also want this House to know that we also have been offered a gemology centre by the Indian Government which, after my visit to India, we have had discussion and we will have a gemology centre set in Mutare.
Relocating the people – we know that there are people who have not yet been relocated from Marange who are still being affected very negatively by the operations there and we are building new houses and we are finalising the ones that had been built by the companies so that we continue the relocation of people.
I also want to say that in that relocation programme, we will be providing housing water, education, agriculture, security and youth’s employment by way of project that the people can undertake. I also want to assure this House that US$10 million was promised by the companies to the people of Marange, it was not lived up to and we have said to the company that as soon as funds are coming and the company is operating at a profit, we need to honour that issue.
The rest of the issue has to do with the skills mix of our people, how many engineers because there were questions asked by the
Parliamentary Committee, how many technicians we have. I have all the figures here (please see chart on page 20 of the report) their qualifications, it is all contained in this document that I wish, Madam
Speaker to lay I before the House as my response to the report by the Parliamentary Committee on Mines and Energy. I thank you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order! I do not know what Hon. Matuke might want us to do in terms of adjournment of the House but I have got an issue. I am a Member of the Committee on Mines and Energy and I want to raise a complaint, not to the Minister but to the Administration of Parliament. I do not know whether it is a deliberate effort or it was deliberate effort for them to allow the Minister to bring his report in response to the Committee on Mines and Energy. I think next time, what is needed to be done Hon. Minister is whenever a Minister, whether it might be Hon. Chidhakwa or any other Minister for that matter, it is important for the Committee which oversights that particular Ministry to be notified to say that the Minister is going to give a report. We presented our report, it is about two or three months now, and we do not have that report in order for us to cross check for reference purposes on when the Minister will be making a report.
So, I think it is important for us to be given that notification so that at least we can bring the report, we refer to the response on what the Minister will be doing, so that at least we will be on the same level with the Minister. As of now, the Minister has given us, maybe it might be a very good report, it might be a bad response, whatever but at the end of the day, we do not have the report to cross check on the responses which the Minister has brought to us. I think that is the complaint which I just wanted to raise.
Secondly, now that the Minister has presented the report to us, like what I said again, I do not know what Hon. Matuke’s intentions are? Is he going to ask for the adjournment of the House? If so, how are we going to respond, for example I have got so many issues which I wanted the Minister to respond to. We have got some issues which we wanted the Minister to respond. So those are the two issues which I thought maybe before Hon. Matuke could have said whatever he wanted to say, in as far as the adjournment of the House, maybe I might be wrong but I just seek your clarification.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mnengami, usually when
the Minister gives a response, it is after the debates have been done. So, the report was there and people were debating, so it is not the administration that can push people to debate on the report but you as Members of Parliament and your Committee Chairperson can always be lobbying for your report to be debated at any time.
Now, that the Minister has responded, it is the Chairperson of the
Committee that will respond to the issues that the Minister has raised.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I have heard what you have said, Hon. Speaker and I am not even arguing but my issue was for example, let us say today, maybe our Chairperson was around, he might also have wanted to respond but the unfortunate part of it is that he might not have his own report in order for him to allow to cross check or to reference responses to the Minister. I think in future, it is very important to allow the Committee to know when the Minister is going to respond in order for them to be prepared to make some responses to the report that the Minister would have presented.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Member, but the Chairperson still has the time to respond to the Minister because we are not adopting the report by the Minister. This gives him even more time
to do it.
I want to appreciate and applaud the Members of Parliament from
Swaziland for their dedication and commitment in serving the people. They have been in Parliament when we started and they are still here, showing that they are very responsible Members of Parliament and I wish our Members of Parliament can copy the standard and values that they represent. I really want to appreciate them – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
HON. MUNENGAMI: I Just have one wish Hon. Speaker. For example when we presented the report to Parliament, I never debated on it – [HON. RUNGANI: Where were you?] – Chief Whip muri mai vangu ndokudai zvisingamboiti…
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Munengami…
HON. MUNENGAMI: Sorry Hon. Speaker. My question which I
want to raise is; because I did not manage to debate, can I be allowed to debate now? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
Hon. Mukwangwariwa having been speaking.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mukwangwariwa, I am the Speaker of Parliament – [HON. MAONDERA: And hamusisina quorum futi.] - Order Hon. Member, can you please sit down. I am happy that Hon. Munengami is a law student and you really understand that in law, we deal with certain procedures and values. So, with what has already happened, we can only resolve it for other reports but you can no longer debate on the motion.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Why – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: It is according to the procedure of
Parliament.
HON. MATUKE: Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON. MPARIWA, the National Assembly adjourned at Twenty Eight Minutes
Past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
DEATH OF HON. N. K. NDLOVU
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House of the death of a former Deputy President of the Senate, Hon. N. K. Ndlovu. May I invite Hon. Senators to rise and observe a minute of silence in memory of the late former Deputy President of the Senate.
All Hon. Senators observed a minute of silence.
PARLIAMENT OPEN DAY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I would like to
inform the House that Parliament of Zimbabwe will hold an Open Day
Exhibition in the Parliament Car Park along 3rd Street on 8th and 9th June, 2017.
The car park will therefore be closed from Wednesday 7th to Friday 9th June, 2017 and parking will be available on the south side of Nelson
Mandela Ave between Sam Nujoma (formerly 2nd Street) and Vengai
Muzenda Street (formerly 4th Street) along 3rd Street up to Jason Moyo Avenue and along Kwame Nkrumah, between Sam Nujoma and Simon Vengai Muzenda streets.
Due to limitations in parking space, Hon. Members are strongly encouraged to park their vehicles at their respective hotels and utilise shuttle services being offered by the hotels.
We kindly appeal to Hon. Members to bear with us during the three days. Any inconvenience is sincerely regretted.
BIOMETIRIC SYSTEM IN PARLIAMENT
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I would also like
to inform the house that the biometric system is now operational at all points of entry and exit in parliament building. In terms of the operations; on pressing the button, one should wait for a signal and a green light above the door, then proceed to open the door. In the event that the system fails to respond, one should press the emergency button for assistance.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: I am blind and so, how am I
going to see the green light?
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank you for
your question Hon. Sen. Mashavakure. It is true that you are being asked to see the green light when you are blind. We will look for ways and means to ensure that as you enter or exit the building, there will be someone to assist you. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I move
that Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th June, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th June, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th June, 2017.
MOTION
SADC MODEL LAW ON ERADICATING EARLY CHILD
MARRIAGES
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I would like to put my presence in recognition for the debate made in this House without mentioning names. As you are aware, this motion was almost debated by three quarters of this House. I have found out that there is no need to mention names unless if I was to mention the names of those who did not debate.
This was a hot motion taking into consideration the plight of the girl child. I think everybody was eager to debate across the whole
House. Apart from Hon. Members’ contributions, our Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa also responded to this motion saying that they were already making preparations that a Bill be prepared to come to this august House of which it is a step ahead. The Ministry of Gender and Community Development, Deputy Minister Abigail Damasane also responded to this motion, of which I think some measures are being taken because we need to bring the motion to finality.
By debating and talking without this being put into law, we would not have started anything. So, we need quick responses for the Bill to come to both Houses so that we debate on this motion and close the chapter after we have seen some results.
With these few words, I would like to thank everyone who contributed on this motion because if I was alone, it would just have been a single voice but there were so many voices heard on this issue. I would also want to thank those who contributed opposing the motion.
This is a step to correct some mistakes. Keep on doing so.
I now move that the motion on SADC
Model law on eradicating early child marriages be adopted as follows:
MINDFUL that the SADC Model law is a milestone in eradicating the matrimony of the children and also in protecting those who are already in marriage;
APPRECIATIVE that the Model law embraces all concepts on the prohibition of child marriages as adopted in Swaziland in 2016;
DESIROUS to see the end to child marriages as well as any retrogressive measures and hurdles that mitigate against the eradication of such unions;
NOW, THERFORE calls upon Government to domesticate
provisions of the Model law as part of our statutes.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY POLITICAL
PARTIES
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: Madam President, I want to thank you for affording me this opportunity to debate on this important motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda. This motion has come at the right time. It has come at our time of need. It has come in time to help all of us as Zimbabweans and we should give it its due weight.
Madam President, it starts from this august House. If this august House does well, the whole country will do well. The world over is listening to what is happening in this House, so any good that is going to come out of this House will lead to Zimbabwe being respected. Zimbabwe will have a good reputation internationally. We will raise our Zimbabwean flag high by such deeds.
Our Zimbabwean flag is very beautiful and therefore it behoves the nation that it also has good people. It is quite disgraceful, especially for some of my colleagues, to hear that representatives in this august House, in their constituencies - there is violence, that people are being murdered or people are fighting for whatever reasons. An Hon. Member of Senate or Member of Parliament should not be tainted by such wayward behaviour.
It once happened, Madam President, that a Member of Parliament shot a person and claimed that they had mistaken the person for a baboon. It came out in several publications and we were shamed. As Members of this august House which you lead, we should denounce violence freely without any encouragement or being coerced into that. We should denounce violence wholeheartedly. It hurts me, Madam President, that Zimbabwe has only 10 million people. Big and beautiful as it is, Zimbabwe can house a lot of people. I was happy when Hon.
Members raised a motion that we should multiply and fill this earth.
When there are so few of us, why should you be seeing an enemy?
If there are so few people in Zimbabwe, why should you have an enemy? If you see enemies in Zimbabwe, it means you have a weakness, a nauseating weakness. It is such a serious weakness if you find enemies amongst the people of Zimbabwe. Instead we should be concerned about how best we can work to become more developed. We need to be driving our energies towards positive activities. There are very few people in this country that cannot live harmoniously. It is not good. God did as he pleases. He observed that we are capable and we came here to this august House where we are ably led by you and we should also lead by example. If we fail, by extension you would have failed. I know you as a person who does well.
Madam President, all the Hon. Members who are in this august House are very few. We should miss one another, love one another. At times when we have adjourned I call other Hon. Members of the House and even Hon. Members on the other side of the House and I genuinely will be missing them. Why do we then arm ourselves with sticks or logs and send poor innocent people on the promise of a few Scuds to go and assault others or even kill them, then they come and report back that Sir, we have carried out your instructions, we have butchered them. That is not good. There is no godliness in that act.
Imagine countries like Nigeria where they have 40 million people. South Africa is in the first world. Could they be happy? They are almost close to 70 million, but this country, Zimbabwe, with a mere 10 million - I am talking of the entire population, maybe with 2 million adult men and maybe 2.5 million women and the rest are school children and toddlers, but the 4.5 million cannot live harmoniously. They even track one another – we have seen you talking to so and so, why were you greeting this particular individual, what were you discussing?
What a poor country. We are poor. We are the poorest. There is no country that is as poor as Zimbabwe. We used to sing ‘unohwina sei usina morari?’ Whether it was politics, we used the morale of the people to galvanise people into action. We should never assault people or scold anyone. After politics we would simply go home and we would eat and drink, but now, let me tell you Madam President, people are being sent to go and commit arson.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, order. I
once requested in this august House that we are the creme de la creme of this institution. We need issues that have facts. Let us stick to the facts, I plead with you.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: I have more than enough evidence Madam President. I do not know how we could refer to the evidence that I have. I will give you one that happened closer to my home. Two people were killed close to my home. They were set on fire with petrol and diesel and the people, as we speak right now, do not have flesh. I
am not going to go deeper because I am looking to ensure that we live in harmony and live as relatives so that we develop our country. Even if you think that either of us has been given the hard end of the deal, it should be bygones and let bygones be bygones. Let us work harder to achieve a better and more comfortable tomorrow where we live harmoniously.
If the love that we show each other in this House is genuine and we have to preach it to the entire country, this country will develop. It will be a good country. I have said there are very few of us and it hurts us. We should look for each other, find each other and move ahead peacefully.
Madam President, I would want to talk about the issue of the Executive, the Government. The Government does not have any other arms apart from the ones that it has. The Executive uses its various
Ministries and agencies to do the administration. They do the State’s or the Executive’s bidding. It is these Ministries and agencies that are responsible for carrying out the work of the Government - making reference to the police and prison officers. You cannot see the Government moving but the Government is represented by people. Whatever people do, they should ask themselves the question whether this gives them a good image as a Government employee? If they have a conscience, they would be able to then act accordingly and if they go to church it will be a bonus.
A lot of things are being done in the name of the Government by people who are employed by Government. As a Government agent or member of the arm of the Government, you should do reputable things. If you discharge your duties as a Government worker; abusing your public powers, the mandate that you get from the people to lead, like the power that we are using here; we are now important. We are now in the Guinness register.
Now that all of us are in the public domain, we are easily known even if you are quiet. If you arrive and people start saying she has come without even knowing you were coming, but if we look and see you, we will realise that they were talking of you. Even at a beer drink people will recognise that as a leader you have arrived. As a respectable leader, you need to behave in a decent manner.
It is my plea Madam President that all those who carry out functions in the Executive’s name should be ashamed of themselves. Have you observed on social media police officers that are drunk? A police officer who can hardly stand on his feet….
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Member,
let me correct you. I have earlier on said you are the crème de la creme of the institution. We are elders in this august House. Be that as it may, could we quote issues that appear on social media? Anyone can wear police uniform and misbehave and a colleague can take the photograph and publish this on social media to tarnish the image of police or even record what happened. So, let us leave these issues to those that are not as elderly as ourselves.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: It is because I followed the issue. I will leave that Madam President. Allow me to proceed on the issue of political parties. If there are no Zimbabwean citizens following your party, there is no need for you to say you are a leader of a political party. This debate Madam President, you may even thank me because I am handling it well. Madam President, members of political parties need to go to the people. I once thought to myself that if it were possible, Government would stop political parties from addressing rallies individualy. Certain countries have become more advanced and political parties meet at a central point, for example Chikwanda-Chibiriri
Township where political parties would come and address the people.
Political parties would go where the people are gathered and address them. That way we will be able to stem out the violence because we will be in the open. What is required is for us to be transparent because someone who would want to instill violence will not do that because he will be shying away from the audience. We are sick and tired of people who go behind the scenes and plan evil; come back wearing white robes and say that they are saints. People should be repaid by the community for their deeds. We are working so that we will be repaid by the Zimbabwean citizenry.
In conclusion, I would like to say that in this country we are blessed in that we did not lose our culture entirely. We still observe our culture; we still have headmen and chiefs who are the custodians of our values and traditions. If it were possible we should give traditional leaders the chance to lead the country from where we are coming from and where we are going. These traditional leaders were not installed by the Government but by God. It would be easy for our Government if we give the traditional leaders to take us where we would want to get to so that we can have peace, tranquility and economic development. We have forsaken this peace and everything attendant there at the traditional leadership level. Chiefs should also be consulted on their vision. I believe that they can take us forward. I thank you.
HON. SEN. SIBANDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th June, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low
population.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Madam President for
affording me this opportunity to contribute on the motion by Hon. Sen. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Sen. Murwira. I acknowledge and recognise those who contributed before me on Zimbabwe’s low population.
This is a very broad topic and I will confine myself to the issues which were raised. Madam President, when we talk of population growth, we have to align it with economic growth and since we have to responsibly manage the fiscus, let us not forget that we are currently a net importer of goods and as a result, we have serious balance of payment headaches. Economic growth means more revenue for Government in the form of taxes from a bigger cake. It means our children will enjoy a better life in the material sense; higher standards of living, infrastructural development, better schools, housing, affordable health care, better life expectancy and an improved means of subsistence.
On the other hand, a growing population (not population explosion) may create increased demands for goods and services.
Growing markets tend to stimulate investment and create employment but that is if there is disposable income and if people can afford goods and services. A growing population increases the demand of social services; that is housing, schools, hospitals, public utilities and other types of infrastructure which is not directly concerned with the production of goods. Increasing the population without adequate social capital is increasing the misery of the masses. You cannot have a population growing faster than the economic growth.
Madam President, it is well documented and known how children are walking for more than 10 km to attend school, how the pregnant, the sick and the ailing are failing to access affordable health care; how most metropolitan areas go for days, weeks, months without water and without collecting garbage. How people are living in squalid conditions; one has to just visit the Mbare hostels.
The number of people looking for scarce jobs is surging on an annual basis with youths spending productive time loitering in the streets. We cannot be a welfare State because our welfare department is over stretched fending for vulnerable groups in drought stricken areas and in urban areas, hence we cannot afford to double or treble our population as the current economic environment is not conducive.
Madam President, I do however, appreciate what our Government is doing in order to address the above challenges and many more; even with HIV/AIDS, our death rates are falling and birth rates are rising. The majority of our population is very youthful and well educated. All things being equal, our youth would willingly raise families in sizes that they are comfortable with. Couples can only plan according to what they can afford, hence they have the choice to opt for family planning or not.
Before the use of Depo-Provera, implants, condoms and vasectomies, there were traditional methods of preventing pregnancies. Women used to tie a cloth around their waists; all these are tools of birth control. If a family opts for larger family, there are fertility drugs and herbs.
Madam President, it is the economic situation for those who wish to be parents or those who are already parents that should determine the number of off springs. People should build families that they can afford. Bringing investors creates employment but not full employment because with modern technological progress, productive capacity increases such that any given output can be produced by a progressively smaller labour force which would leave more people unemployed if our population were to grow rapidly. May I remind Hon. Senators that at the age of thirty seven (37), Zimbabwe is a young democracy.
Madam President, I urge Senators to rather clamour for more incentives for our various productive sectors of the economy in order to enable us to rebuild Zimbabwe’s economy first. I do not believe that our Government, for now, can afford to give incentives to urge or compel couples to reproduce beyond their means. That would be folly, a fallacy on our part and farfetched.
In this motion in response to citizens’ demands or priorities, I believe it is not a priority at this given time as it will reverse the current social gains in the social sectors. I am not pouring cold water on this motion, no. My only plea to Senate is let us not send out or transmit the wrong signals to the people we represent. Let us rather concentrate on the current reform programme for ease of doing business. Let us use our resources efficiently and effectively knowing fully well that they are finite. Let us rather continue telling the world that investing in
Zimbabwe makes sense. The current Government impetus should be well supported. Let us move our economy forward. I thank you Madam
President.
*HON. SEN. CHIZEMA: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tawengwa for what he said. I want to highlight on the issue of having eight kids. Are we saying women are the ones to turn around the economy by having many kids? One thing that we have to take note of is that going into labour is a very painfully process that women have to bear. I totally disagree with the motion where they are saying every woman is supposed to have eight children. I also disagree with the issue of saying they want NGOs to discourage the use of family planning or trying to come up with an organisation that promotes child bearing, I have never heard of that and it is abnormal. I take this as undermining and violation of women’s rights because going through labour is a difficult and painful thing. I am standing on behalf of women and I know most women will not agree unless if we are saying if I give birth to one child, then my partner will also give birth to the second and this continues up to the eighth child, may be – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.] – eheka iwe Hon. Sen. Musaka unoitawoka one.
*HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President, I felt touched and decided to add a few words. I rise to debate on the motion raised by Hon. Musaka and his seconder. Firstly, I would want to look into the motion and say this is a futuristic motion. We have dire economic conditions, we cannot do things willy-nilly but everything being equal and our economy is ticking and we have a low unemployment rate. I think that we should go in stages and the Zimbabweans that are in the country should propagate our nation and ensure that we remain intact. In other countries, if you have too much liberalisation, you will be overwhelmed by outsiders and they will take over your jobs and everything else. Even the leadership, they will also take over. Look at what is happening in the United Kingdom and in
America. I am not saying that the current American President’s views are wrong but I would want to say he may be right to say, America for the Americans, Zimbabwe for the Zimbabweans and Africa for the
Africans.
In the UK, they have problems with the bombs now because a lot of Islamic people are now there. They allowed everyone to have citizenship willy-nilly. They have had three bombs in three months with the most recent one being this last Saturday. So, they are having problems in trying to come to grips with the issue. The Mayor of London is a Muslim but bombs are being discharged there. There are hardliner Muslims who have claimed responsibility for these bombs and it was because mass citizenship was granted to whoever wanted it and as a result, they reaped what they sow.
He talked about birth control which should not be the topical issue. Yes, families should have children that they are capable of looking after and birth control should not say that we should have less children. I am in agreement with what has been said by Hon. Sen. Chizema when she said we should have a cutoff point of eight children. Let us have more children and those that can have four, six or even ten; it is their choice if they have the means, it is well and good. So on that issue, the law should not be stringent in coming up with a specific cutoff number of children that one can have. But, if you are futuristic in mind, which is what I believe the motion is all about ensuring that this country belongs to the current Zimbabweans that we know of and that the Zimbabwean race is perpetuated, because of the dangers that are happening in other countries. They are failing to have people to employ because they have few children. Zimbabwe should not find itself in that situation. It has been said by Hon. Sen. Marava in reference to another motion that this country is far from being filled. We are a young democracy. As Hon. Sen. Tawengwa has said, we have so many years to go and there is a lot of potential for us to occupy our country fully. But be that as it may, let us be selective in whom we grant Zimbabwean citizenship to and not every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Investment cannot be lured by populous nations but it can come even with a small population which is highly technical and knowledgeable. What we need is that the growth of the economy should be proportional to the growth of the country so that our aspirations can be perpetuated and realised so that we would become self sufficient. We must be moving with the times and we must develop both the economy and skills in our country.
The issue of saying birth control all the time, I think that the NGOs should desist from that. With those words, I would want to clarify a few points and basically I am in support of this motion; subject to incorporation of the ideas that I have put in that there should not be cutoff figure. I really support Hon. Sen. Musaka’s motion. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: I would want to thank you for the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka seconded by Hon.
Murwira. I was touched by a single statement or verse raised by Hon. Sen. Chizema. At one time we saw as if the members of the apostolic faith were uneducated when they had too many wives or that they did not know what they were doing. In fact, they knew what they were doing. If a single woman is to have ten children, it is a difficult thing to conceive and give birth. Others when they fall pregnant, they do not eat, they go on labour then go back to a cruel man and become pregnant again by a cruel man.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: Order, if I call order, it means that you take your seat, Hon. Member. I heard that Sen. Chimanikire, you once debated on this issue and you now want to have a second bite of the cherry.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: I appreciate the point Mr.
President, but I had wanted to add further submissions.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIDUKU: Thank you Mr. President. I see that this debate was conducted very well but, we are now doing the wrong things. So, I have risen to say we should not spoil this good debate. For us to be chiefs; it is because of the people. For a village or a homestead, it is because of people. So, why should we encourage certain things to come into effect?
Let me go back – the issue of child birth was introduced by God Himself. He is the one who commanded the people to multiply and fill the earth. What difficulties or pain is there that is associated with child birth. It did not start today but it has always been there – this is not a new thing. God created this and commanded that people should be fruitful, multiply and fill this earth. You have now become street wise and you now want to be more godly than God and say that God was wrong by giving the people the command that you must fill this earth. If you want to believe that God was wrong, stop breathing for ten minutes and see if you survive. God gave you everything, you are now sitting pretty doing everything, and you now want to be white people.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Chief, if you say that you are full to the broom, it is too strong. Thank you so much for commending that.
*HON. SEN. CHIDUKU: When one has had some cowpeas and
their stomach is full, they behave as they please. If such adults would want to teach our children not to give birth, the Hansard debates will say, Senator so and so, the father of so and so and grandfather of so and so is teaching people not to multiply. People will recognise you and give you respect, but by doing supporting negative issues, are you going to be respected? The Lord gave women ovaries and if they produce a single child, her husband will not divorce her but the other one can produce ten. That is what the Lord has given them. You should not say that the one that has had ten has too many children.
We should not teach our people that way. God loves people, he created this planet so that people can live on this planet. If you want to murder the innocent, you will not go to heaven. Let nature take its course, it should not be against God’s command. You will be punished by God and you will perennially be poor. You cannot say you will not be rich because of many children. Are you the owners of this wealth? Can you create wealth because you have few children? You will never enjoy any riches. Once your children become degreed and are now pilots, they produce nothing.
Others say they do not want daughters or sons but the girl child is supporting many homesteads. You cannot play God’s role. Let him play His role. Let what God did put in place occur. If you have five chickens and each is laying two eggs, would you look after them? You will slaughter them as soon as a visitor calls in. You will slaughter it but if a hen produces 12 to 15 chicks, you will give it food because it is doing a good job. You are saying it is painful to give birth, God said it will be painful at labour because you influenced the men to eat the forbidden fruit. That is when you were punished and as you give birth, you will feel pain until you know that the Lord is there.
Let us be more serious as elders and stop making comments that it is painful to give birth. The Lord commended giving birth. Even animals, cattle, goats and chickens give birth as women do. Do not be afraid, if you have reached menopause, so be it. If you are still in the child bearing age, continue bearing children. That is why men have extra marital affairs and you start mourning that your husbands are leaving you. It is because you are refusing to produce children. If the Lord blessed you with a single child, your husband will accept that and will still love you. But, if you say you now want to have two children, you will see a grown up man with a lot of riches and when he dies, he is survived by his wife, two children and two grandchildren. What were you doing all along? All those riches no longer have anyone to make use of and the mansion becomes disused. People even become afraid to pass through that area. This is not what we want. Our poverty will not end as black people.
We were born black and we now want to use lightening creams in order to be closer to the whites. You are saying Lord you made a mistake but the Lord made us in his own image. Do not laugh at those people that you call ugly; they are God’s creation. We are doing a lot of things wrongly by wanting things that do not belong to us.
I did not want to debate on this issue but I realise that this was a good motion that was now taking a wrong turn. When Hon. Sen. Musakwa moved this motion, he did not give us the causes in terms of the pros and cons. His appeal was straightforward. We have a small population and so, let us increase in numbers. With those words, I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NEMBIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I have decided to add some few words to the motion regarding the family planning in Zimbabwe. I support that we have large families in
Zimbabwe but let me hasten to say that everything went wrong after our Zimbabwean or African women attended the Beijing Conference. When they came from the Beijing Conference, the African or Zimbabwean women did not understand that China was hiding behind a fingure. It had a policy of two children per each family. They thought that the business opportunities that they had been promised would be better if they did not reproduce. China then bore children for us and they are now giving us jobs. That is something that went wrong.
Birth control is in the hands of the Almighty, our ancestral spirits. Those that can, should have ten to twelve children as long as they can look after them. We should never fight against our tradition. We do not expect our women folk to say that it is painful to give birth. We all know that it is painful but it a practice that is to be done. It is a necessary evil. It is painful to pay school fees for children but we support that we should have bigger families that are properly planned for. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion on ZEC who are supposed to monitor elections for 2018. Laos, when they are there they will be monitoring the issue to do with elections for 2018 and the other forthcoming elections. Hon. Sen. Timveos who brought this motion asked if we can have a law passed that can guide ZEC on their working conditions. She indicated that once this is done, it will assist on preparations on the forthcoming elections. Looking at the time that we are left with before we conduct our elections, I think the pace that is being used in preparing for the forthcoming elections is so slow especially when we are looking at alignment with the new Constitution.
My question will be when because we are taking so long to fix these things; we know that they have indicated that almost everyone has to go through the registration for the elections. What I want to find out Mr. President Sir, is that when we look at the time that we are left with, we realise that we no longer have enough time. Therefore, this might lead to the forthcoming elections not being conducted properly. I have realised that at Parliament building, the biometric system is now being used. It is not everyone who is at Parliament who knows how to use the biometric system.
My question is, when it is taking long for the preparation of the forthcoming elections, how are people going to know whether the system will be functional or not? Are we not going to have a process whereby we will fail to check whether the system is functional or not?
How is ZEC going to be able to manage everyone on the biometric system so that they will be eligible voters? ZEC has indicated that they want 10 000 people at each and every polling station. Are they going to be able to do this with the time that we are left with? I think it is best if we are to start the process now especially computerising all the names of the Zimbabweans so that when we are voting we will not have any challenges.
We have heard some of the candidates for the forthcoming elections indicating that they will not accept it if they lose the elections. We need to have enough time so that ZEC can educate people on the use of the biometric system. So many people are not sure on how the biometric system is going to be used and need to be educated on that. This will give confidence to all the voters for they will know that the biometric system is a very safe and good method to use when conducting elections.
I have realised that most Hon. Members were trying to use the biometric system when entering Parliament Building and it was not functional. How are we going to know then that the one they are going to use for elections is going to function properly? Maybe there is need for clarification or we use the old system of writing. We can opt to use the old system that was being used instead of this biometric system. We can only adopt this if people have been given enough education on this. Can we have this biometric system implemented whilst there is still enough time so that we give confidence to all the voters? I thank you.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th June, 2017.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF
THE SENATE
INVITATION TO A CAPACITY ASSESSMENT DIALOGUE
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENTOF THE SENATE : I have
to inform all Chairpersons of Committees that they are invited to a meeting with consultants for a capacity assessment dialogue tomorrow Wednesday, 7th June, 2017 at 1000 hours in the National Assembly Chamber. The purpose of the meeting is for the consultants to hear from the Members what they feel their capacity needs are and to fill in questionnaires which will assist the consultants to develop a capacity building plan.
On the motion of HON. SEN. TAWENGWA seconded by HON.
SEN. MARAVA, the Senate adjourned at Ten Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 8th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
VISITORS IN THE SENATE GALLERY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We have a special
sitting today being the Open Day. I wish to recognise the presence in the President of the Senate’s Gallery of the following schools; Morgan Zintec College and Rock Foundation Primary School.
CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP REMINDER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to remind
the House that all Hon. Members of Parliament are invited to a capacity building workshop, convened by Parliament in collaboration with the United Nations Agencies in Zimbabwe on the United Nations System and Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) at the Sango Conference Centre, Cresta Lodge in Msasa on Monday, 12th June, 2017.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Services. May you enlighten us on Government policy in terms of paying school fees for orphans in rural areas? Suppose a child is now at university, do you proceed to pay the fees at tertiary level? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I want
to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa for the question. Government currently has a policy called BEAM and it is only focusing on primary and secondary education. It does not look at higher education.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. Do you have a policy in place now, that it is difficult for the aged to get their monies from the banks? They end up coming to banks many times wasting the funds that they have. What measures have you put in place to assist them from coming again and again to get their pensions?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo’s question which raises two points. The first one is notification on when the monies are available and the second question is on when the cash will be available in the banks.
On the first point, we are making it a point that we inform the populace when the money is going to be availed in the banks just like we are doing with the salaries. We avail dates at the beginning of the month when their payments will be coming through. On the issue of the availability of hard cash once they come to the banks; we appreciate that currently there is a liquidity crunch in the country and it is a very tight position.
What we are promoting and the Government’s position right now is that people should move on to either plastic money or mobile banking. We are making that facility available to the aged so that the money translates onto their mobile phones or they can swipe at the available retail outlets. I am led to understand that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development has gone an extra gear up in availing points of sale for mobile money and the plastic card utilisation.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare again. There have been incidences where people have been denied food in the rural areas. I know that it is not your policy to discriminate people when they are going to be given food but when it does happen, what do you advise that it be done by those who are discriminated against?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): When
we set up the Committees which look into, in the first instance identifying potential beneficiaries and when the food eventually comes in to supervise over the distribution process; we had set in place a review mechanism where in the event of anyone who is aggrieved comes back through the very same channels. There are the district, ward and provincial committees where aggrieved people can channel their complaints through.
Over and above that, we also have dedicated social welfare officers in all the outlining areas. Surely, should complaints come through, we encourage whoever is the complainant to channel them formally through those channels and we will take it on board. The Government’s policy is that nobody should be discriminated. Once that complaint comes through, surely there are channels to bring it to our attention and we will take remedial action. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you very much Hon. Minister for
that answer. Should it happen in the presence of those very structures that you are mentioning, what should we do? Where do we go because it is happening and we would like to advise people what to do?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: When I outlined the structure of those committees, the lowest committee level will be at ward level. From the ward level we go to the district level, from the district we go to the provincial structures. Surely, if the person has been discriminated on at the ward level, the second port of call will be the district level where they will obviously get an audience. If it is still happening at the district level, by all means, they will cascade it up to the provincial level and by that time, believe me, word would have come to the Ministry and we will take remedial action.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: My question is again directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. At all times, we are told exactly that there will be additional workforce in various ministries. For example, there were some promises in the Ministry of Health and Child Care and other ministries that we shall be employing people to the tune of almost 2 000. I would like to find out the role of your Ministry in ensuring that such a thing is done or what is your role as related to such other policies of employment?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): When
vacancies or employment opportunities arise in the public sector, the initial generation point would be the line Ministry that identifies those vacancies. In this instance, Hon. Sen. Makore highlighted the Ministry of Health and Child Care - Yes, of note; the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education is also on record as having that request. Once that process has gone through, the Public Service Commission goes into verifying that indeed those vacancies do exist.
The second point after that would then be to approach the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to see whether adequate resources can be harnessed to fund those positions. Only then when the funding is in place and is of a sustainable nature and the vacancies have been verified, then the ministries are given a go ahead to recruit.
Yes indeed, that permission has been given to the Ministry of
Health and Child Care and as we are speaking right now, the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education is also looking into filling vacancies - off the cuff, I would say to the tune of 2 300.
HON. SEN. SHIRI: My question is again directed to Deputy Minister Matangaidze. When are we going to have the new Disability Board and what is the criteria used to choose the members?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I am
on record in this House saying that we are at a very advanced stage in coming up with a new Disabled Persons Act. This Act will speak to the composition of that board, so we do not want to take the cut before the horses. So, let that Act come through; we believe that certainly by the third quarter, the Bill will be coming through both Houses for deliberations and after that we should be able to fill in positions for that board.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: My question also goes to the
Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.
Minister, you have indicated that there are jobs at times. That is our Minister who specialises in disability. As a parent Ministry, do you have a quota to say that those who have disabilities but with the qualifications are employed?
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Our plan as a Ministry is that we need to create a department that is led by preferably a person with disability. As a Ministry, this position is already there on our organogram. The challenge that we have is that whenever there is a vacancy in Government, it has to be funded. What we are trying to do as a Ministry is that we want to see how we can rationalise how that can be funded. We also have a plan to come up with a Disabled Persons policy which specifies that if we are saying people in Zimbabwe, between 7% to 10% are living with disabilities, if we are employing people, it will be good for us to consider that ratio in future so that it will be in the policy that we intend to develop in connection with disabilities.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: If there is anyone who is from the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, my question is directed to them.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Is there anyone
standing in for the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development? Please bear with us, Hon. Member, there is nobody from the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: This question is directed to the
Minister of Public Services, Labour and Social Service. What is Government policy regarding someone who passes away and the body is paraded on top of a commuter omnibus?
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I think that
question should be directed to the relevant Ministry, but if you wish to respond Minister, please do so.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I think
you are correct, Madam President. This question should be directed to the Minister of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement. Deputy Minister, what measures are you taking to A1 farmers who are in conflict because their plots are being allocated to some other people?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Could the Hon. Member
please repeat their question. I did not hear her quite clearly.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: The Minister is
kindly asking you to repeat the question.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Madam President. I was saying to the Deputy Minister, what measures have you put in place in rural areas where there are resettled A1 farmers because currently, there are double allocations and they are having two tenants for each plot and there is conflict. The ones who have been there since 2004 are there, but new people come with offer letters.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam
President. I want to thank Senator Maluleke for that question. Senator, the issue of A1 farmers is that the A1 farms are allocated by the District Lands Committee and then there is the Provincial Lands Committee. They send papers to the Ministry for recording purposes to approve, but they will have done that allocation already. This is done at the districts. They identify and write the list and they send it to the province. The province then approves and informs them to distribute the land. If they are A2 farms, they are also allocated at district level, it comes to the province and then the Minister approves.
So, the situation that you are talking about, it is good if you put it in writing so that we know who has been affected. Is it an A1 or A2 scheme? There is no law that says that a person can be given an offer letter to a piece of land that has already been allocated. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
VISITORS IN THE SENATE GALLERY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I would like to inform
the House that we have in the Gallery Waterfalls Gardens Junior School.
You are welcome.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. Minister, I kindly would want to know what policy you have for our rural aged population who are now seriously adversely affected by the economic situation in the country due to their age because whatever policies, if there were any, they do not seem to be having an impact on the rural aged. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Marava for that question. Madam President, when we come up and design social protection policies in the Ministry one of the key areas we look at is a group in our community that we call the vulnerable. Normally, when we give a definition of the vulnerable, we are talking of the aged, child headed households, people living with disabilities and people who are chronically ill. So, in place there already is that mechanism for us to identify obviously the help of the community, people who are vulnerable, the aged, that you specifically refer to.
Regardless of whether there is a state of disaster in terms of food mitigation or not, our Ministry maintains a register of people that society has agreed are vulnerable. We come in with intervention programmes to assist those people. Typically right now, we avail maize meal as and when the situation allows. We also give cooking oil, bales of clothing and other mitigation issues that we come up with. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement. What is your policy on making sure that 50/50 of people are given land - women and men. The report we were given here says only 18% of women were given land. So, when are you going to reach 50/50?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Hon. Sen.
Khumalo for your very valid question. On the 50/50, as you know it is a process. We are still in the process of doing that. As we are allocating land, we also consider women. However, most women have benefitted through their husbands. Usually in our Ministry, we want the details of a married person; we need the name of the wife so that the wife cannot be allocated land elsewhere. We also want women to get land. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHIRI: My question is directed to the Deputy of Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, Hon.
Matangaidze. Honourablae, we understand Zimbabwe also celebrate World Play Day for children. How important is it for us as a nation. We see we have students in the Gallery and we want them to understand how we view this day. Thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Shiri for her question. Yes, Zimbabwe ratifies international protocols that mandate us to recognise those protocols. We have the days of the elderly, disabilities even the day of the child. If I remember well, Hon. Sen. Shiri we were together at Victoria Falls to commemorate the International Day of Disability.
This year we started recognising the day of the children. We did not give this as much visibility as we did with the Day of Disability because our budget was inadequate. In the coming years we intend to do that more seriously. In July, we have a day to commemorate the day of the civil servants that we will commemorate in Masvingo. So, as a Ministry, we value these days and I hope that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa will be able to allocate adequate funds to commemorate these special days. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the
Deputy Minister of Tourism. Hon. Minister, I would like to find out from you; we heard before on the issue of road blocks that some of these road blocks are the ones that cause the decrease of tourism in our nation.
How true is that?
HON. A. NDHLOVU: Thank you Madam President. With your
permission, I would answer in English. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for asking such a very pertinent question which is not only topical but it is a question which affects our efforts to continue to grow the GDP of our country through tourism. Madam President and all Hon. Senators here present, this is a matter which we as Government are seized with.
I would like to share with the Hon. Member that our Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Industry works very closely with the Ministry of Home Affairs. We have a taskforce in place dealing with the matter. I would also like to share with you that the Minister of Home Affairs, a few months ago shared with the nation that Government is working towards E-road blocks. This will make it smoother for our citizens and tourists to move on our roads. I would also like to remind her and every other citizen of our country on the importance of the need for us to ensure the safety and protection of all citizens as well as our tourists. I am positive that within a few months to come, this issue will have been dealt with through the taskforce which works on tourism on the safety on our roads. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I think the Hon.
Senator wanted to know how true that allegation is.
HON. A. NDLHOVU: Thank you Madam President. I do not understand which allegation she is talking about? - [HON. SENATORS: That road blocks cause the decrease of tourists in our country.]- It is not necessarily true that we are losing tourists as a result of road blocks. However, we work very closely with the private sector, Zimbabwe Tourism Authority which works with the Zimbabwe players on tourism which represents private sector interests. The issue has been raised by players that tourists are complaining about road blocks but tourists are still coming. That is why I have reminded you of the need for us as Government to ensure that our roads are safe, hence we need to have those road blocks but in a progressive way. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement. I would like to know the difference between an offer letter and a title deed which is being offered by the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement. Those who have offer letters cannot access loans from the banks. What is Government policy on that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam President. Thank you Hon. Member for the question you asked. When we come to offer letters, it is something which has been offered to somebody to occupy the land whilst he/she is applying for a lease. A lease is something which can be used to apply for loan in a bank; it can be used as collateral to acquire funds from the bank. With the title deed, it is privately owned. When a person has a private land, he/she is supposed to have the title deeds which is different with the offer letter.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Chikwama. Hon. Minister, is your policy to those people who acquire land unlawfully? When you hear that, that is what has happened, what do you do? We still have few cases of people being evicted from their land unlawfully. Maybe it can be done by people in power who are exercising power over those who are losing their land.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Senator,
you cannot ask ‘what can you say’? I always remind you to ask questions on policy. You are not supposed to solicit the Minister’s opinion. What is your question?
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Madam President. What I
want to understand is the current policy on the issue of those evicting others and taking land unlawfully? It is still happening although there are a few cases.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESSETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam
President. Thank you Hon. Senator for your question which I think is important. The Ministry’s policy is that land is allocated and there is a process that is done. There are Committees that start at district level and we have them at provincial level. I can say because of the fast tract land programme that we did, there was need for the creation of the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement in order to ensure that things are procedurally followed. If there are people who have acquired land unlawfully or by force, you can write to the Ministry or to the province informing us that there is someone who has taken land unlawfully and
by force. Everyone is allocated land using the processes that I outlined before from districts to the provinces and to the Ministry. If it is A2, the Ministry approves and then those people are given land. We already passed the fast track system phase, why we went through this system is because we wanted land to be owned by the black majority. Now we are following the procedure that is in line with policy. I thank you.
- SEN. CHIPANGA: My question is directed to the
Minister of Psychomotor, I do not know the full name of that Ministry. Minister, I wanted to find out from you how far your Ministry has gone in terms of measures because we understand it deals with skills development and how is it aligned to the new curriculum that we have?
- THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR LIAISING ON
PSYCHOMOTOR ACTIVITIES IN EDUCATION (HON. SEN.
HUNGWE): Thank you Madam President for the question raised by Hon. Sen. Chipanga concerning my Ministry. That term is difficult for most people, even to interpret, they need to understand. People want to know what psychomotor means? People need to know that it is something new. This Ministry Hon. Senator was formed because we had got to the stage whereby people could not secure jobs because the jobs that they were looking at were white colour or they could get them from mines or companies like Meikles. These jobs were no longer available.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Chipanga, I want you to pose your question again.
*HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Madam President. I want
to find out what is in place as of now. Are there people who have been trained in your Ministry to start working so that we do not continue to be at a stage where they cannot get jobs?
*THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR LIAISING ON
PSYCHOMOTOR ACTIVITIES IN EDUCATION (HON. SEN.
HUNGWE): Thank you Madam President. I think the clarity that you sought is right now we need to start on skills training. That is what we are expected to do. It is now in place, what is lacking is the funding but the training and the skills are already in place. We have identified the skills; we now know which skills are needed in agriculture, in mining and industry. What is left now is just funding for that. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MUSAKA: As a follow up, I once asked this question sometime back. Minister, the people of Hwedza are waiting and saying tipei mvuto tirove mhangura, Zimbabwe ibudirire. The Hon. Minister said we are waiting for the budget and the budget has come. So where are we, are we still waiting? I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I do not think the
Minister needs to answer that question because he did say they have done their homework, they are just waiting for the money, ndozvavataura ndinovimba vedare munonditsigirawo ipapo.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Madam President. I
had you say that there is Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement with us, I do not know the Minister, if I am wrong, Minister you just advice me that I am wrong. I wanted to ask that there are people who went to resettlement areas; these people do not have leadership. Now there is command agriculture and all these programmes need leadership to guide these people. What is your policy because you said you do not want village heads and chiefs? Our people are staying like animals there. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): I want to thank the Hon.
Sen. Chief for his question. I have not heard that in resettlement areas there are no village heads. Where I am going these days they are there. I do not know, maybe it has not yet been regularised and there is no policy to it. In most areas, especially in A1, there are village heads and those are the people we see when we get to the area. When we get there, we first see the village heads and the Committee Ward Members. So, I think that now needs the Ministry of Rural Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
VISITORS IN SENATE GALLERY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Before I call for
further questions, I would like to advise the Senate that we have in the gallery, students from Seke Teacher’s College. You are welcome. –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry. As a nation, we request to be enlightened on where we went wrong in the UNWTO Chairperson elections. We seemed to have been doing well but we want to know where exactly we failed. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Minister,
this is not a policy issue but we will allow you to answer it because it is a national issue.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM AND
HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. ANASTANCIA NDHLOVU):
Thank you Madam President. You rightly said this is not a policy issue but this is an issue of national interest. It was a national project, so with your permission Madam President, can I please answer in English because some words in tourism cannot be well expressed in Shona.
Thank you Madam President and thank you Hon. Senator for asking this very important question. As Hon. Senators and the whole nation were aware, the country was in the race for the position of the UNWTO Secretary General. We have been campaigning since last year and Government represented by the President cleared the current Tourism and Hospitality Industry Minister, Dr. Eng. Walter Mzembi to represent the country in that race. Madam President, as I answer the hon. Member, please allow me to pay tribute to SADC and the AU for the support that they gave us as a country by endorsing our candidature.
Madam President Ma’am. I will say that our candidate was a force to reckon with as the Member maybe aware as outlined in the media report; we led in the first round with 11 votes and Georgia following with 8 then others.
Madam President Ma’am, as the Hon. Member maybe aware, as the Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry, he gave it his all and as a country we gave it our all. Allow me Madam President Ma’am to also thank His Excellency the President for supporting this bid in a manner never seen before.
Madam President Ma’am, from the results of the first round, it is very clear to everyone who understands geopolitics that the first round was about tourism and the best candidate won – who is Minister Mzembi. After the second round, we strongly believed but it all of a sudden became so real that Zimbabwe was about to take over and implement the reforms which our leader always talks about – the need to have a reform agenda at the United Nations and its agencies. Of course as you are also aware Madam President and the rest of the Members, the country is under siege from the work of the imperialist and they did all they could for us to lose in the second round.
I have good news however for the Hon. Senator that the race is not yet complete as the candidate from Georgia who won a few weeks back needs to be endorsed by the General Assembly with a two—thirds majority of the membership of the UNWTO, which is 102 votes.
Therefore, the race is not yet complete and we will only know the final result after the General Assembly in Chengdu, which is scheduled for September this year. I would like to thank the Hon. Member and to thank her for always showing interest in the growth of tourism. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural
Resettlement, Hon. Chikwama. What is Government’s policy concerning those who are in the A2 Scheme which were pegged and there was a remaining piece of State land. Now in the A2 Scheme, they are saying that there is not supposed to be any State land. What does Government policy say in terms of allocation of this remaining State land? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam
President Ma’am and thank you Hon. Sen. Mavhunga for your question.
When talking of land in Zimbabwe, if all land is gazetted, it is supposed to belong to the State. For those who are there, if there is a portion that was left behind which belonged to the State, if you are in the A2 Scheme and there is State land, you need to follow the procedure to apply using the procedures. Sometimes there is an open space because there is need to put a school or business and that is done by the Ministry to ensure that there are businesses or to build a school. But, when we talk of State land, every land that is gazetted in Zimbabwe is State land.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: I think that there is need to clarify. I am saying for the land that was left such as land which had barns and homesteads, are you saying that land should be left as it is or you are saying it now belongs to all those people in the surrounding area? I thank you.
*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Hon. Sen. Mavhunga for your
question. There are A1 Schemes and if an A1 has infrastructure that is there, that could be for the caretaker or it will be left like that. Long ago, it would be left like that because a caretaker would be put there by the
Ministry to take care of the place. For those in the A2 Scheme, if there
is infrastructure, the person who gets the land and there is property on his land, it belongs to him. Currently, if there is no one where there is infrastructure, you apply as I said.
I can say that we have a Committee that went round in
Mashonaland Central, Mashonaland East and Mashonaland West as well as Matabeleland North. The evaluation team went around and they left a paper for one to apply for that property. You could lease that land or you could make it an A2 farm if there is space. If there is a homestead, and it is made into an A2 Scheme and there is enough land, it would be good for an A2 in order to maintain that infrastructure. We realise that under the A1 Scheme, so much infrastructure was destroyed because no one really claimed that infrastructure but because we realised that, that procedure actually maintains existing infrastructure, we decided to follow that route. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order time for
Questions without Notice has expired.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Madam President, I move that time for Questions without Notice be extended by 15 minutes.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I second.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you very much Madam
President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Marava for asking for the extension of time. Madam President, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Minister of Tourism. What measures, plans or programmes are put in place to promote domestic tourism and even regional tourism? We have seen that there are countries who are benefiting a lot from domestic tourism involving even the rural areas in terms of cultural tourism. What plans does the Ministry have? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. A. NDHLOVU): Thank you
Madam President. Please allow me through you, to thank Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa for this very good question. I would like to share with her that Government, through our Ministry has a National Tourism policy that was launched in 2014. Government has further developed a National Tourism Master Plan that is going to be the nucleus around which that National Tourism policy will be implemented. The National Tourism Master Plan Madam President, has designated our country into eleven tourism development zones. All that was done in a bid to try to promote domestic tourism and to ensure that we achieve tourism product development and diversification.
The Hon. Member will agree with me that every district or village of our country has some unique product to offer. That means that where she comes from, there is so nuch tourism potential. I also urge her to work with my Ministry to see how we can also grow the tourism potential in the area that she represents because that falls under one of our tourism development zones. In a bid to promote domestic tourism, that is very critical in growing tourism in our country. Madam
President, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe, in 2014 launched the
“Know your country, Know your Zimbabwe” campaign. This seeks to see us involving our school children and the university students because we have realised that the big tourism economy such as the People’s Republic of China among others have become so big due to the domestic tourism in their countries.
Madam President, over and above that, a few days back, the Acting
President launched the National Launch that officiates the International
Year of Sustainable Tourism for Growth. What do I mean by that? The United Nations has declared 2017 as the year of tourism. It therefore proffers a number of opportunities for our people to also play a part in tourism especially the formally marginalised groups such as the women and our young people.
I therefore, call upon all Zimbabweans to take part in the sustainable tourism year. A number of activities will be rolled out through our parastatal, the ZTA. That will, in a way also grow domestic tourism. Over and above that Madam President, it is very sad that our people do not have a holiday culture. They probably think that a tourist has to come from outside the country, which is not necessarily so. So all the efforts that we are doing are to ensure that we try to instil a holiday culture in our people.
I am therefore urging them to visit the tourist attractions which are close-by to them because I believe that every district has something to offer. Unless we do it ourselves, tourists from outside cannot continue to grow the economy for us.
She also spoke about what Government policy is in promoting regional tourism. As a country Madam President, I will very briefly share with the Member that we work very closely with other countries in the region through Retail Southern Regional Tourism Organisation on Tourism and work with other countries at the level of the continent. I am proud to share with her that the country was elected in March this year to chair the African Union Specialised Technical Committee on Infrastructure and Energy within which tourism falls. That will also help our efforts of growing regional tourism as we contribute towards the continent’s ambition to achieve our brand Africa.
Coming to the issue of promoting tourism in rural areas that is covered through the Tourism Master Plan that I spoke about, as soon as it is launched, we will have a session with parliamentarians. Madam President, we will approach your office and that of the Speaker so that our national representatives of the people in our country are aware of these developments since tourism can contribute, not just our GDP but we also hope that it changes the livelihoods of our people in a sustainable manner. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President.
My question goes to the Ministry of Tourism. How far has your Ministry gone in developing a policy on accessibility so that even persons with disabilities can enjoy the nation’s tourist facilities?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM AND
HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. A. NDHLOVU): Thank you
Madam President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking such a very important question. As previously said, more than seven percent of our population is comprised of people living with one form of disability or another; therefore, they are a key stakeholder of this population. It is Government’s desire through my Ministry that every citizen of this nation is able to enjoy tourism facilities that we have. I am also very humbled to share with this august House, through you Madam President, that our Ministry also works very closely with the representatives of people living with disabilities from this august House. We work very closely with both of them including Hon. Senator Anna Shiri. Last year, you may be aware Madam President that the theme of the World Tourism Day was to do with inclusion and inclusivity of all citizens with a major and specific focus on people with disability.
Prior to the celebrations, we took a tour of all hotel facilities in Harare to take stock of how accessible they are and it was realised that one or two in Harare had the facilities that he is talking about. After that, we engaged in a process of the ease of doing business with which is chaired by OPC. Part of the work that we seek to achieve is to ensure that we achieve inclusivity in tourism and with a major focus on people with disability. I am very happy that Hon. Senator asked about that and they are aware of the efforts. We work very closely with them and we shall continue to do that. The Government policy is that every citizen of this country should be able to enjoy all the tourism facilities in their beautiful country. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you very much Madam
President. My question goes to the Minister of Labour and Social Services regarding employment. He explained that different Ministries give them the needed employment. Is it in their policy to ask whether gender is taken into consideration because we now find that other ministries are taking it just to mean women not looking into both men and women. They are now employing women in everything and our young men are not getting jobs because they have taken into account that gender means women. Is the Ministry aware of that? Do you ask any question on the balances within their ministries because we want both men and women? That is gender is not women.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Members, I
am appealing to you not to address because you are eating into the time that others like Hon. Sen. Marava would like to ask questions.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I
would like to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for that question. The long and short of it Madam President, is that Government policy is very clear that there is a 50/50 representation on all opportunities as they come through. So that policy is there, 50/50 for both the boy and girl-child.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Education, Hon. Prof. Mavima. Professor, there is word going around that there is going to be closure of about +/- 40 schools in Matebeleland South, so I hear. I would like to know what Government policy is when issues like this take place because parents and children are both adversely affected. What are the Ministry’s plans?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam President and I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for that question. The truth of the matter is that there are not going to be any closures. There was a statement to that effect, and the Minister responded and indicated that there were not going to be any closures. As Government, we are not a business. We sometimes operate inefficiently in order to serve our citizens effectively. So, in situations where there is paucity of population and there are fewer students, we have to ensure that those students receive their right to education without interference.
There may be a situation where we may have to consolidate some schools in the future but there is no immediate plan to close any schools in Matebeleland South. There are also situations in Matebeleland North and there is no plan by Government to close schools. It is Government’s policy to priorities education. We are known for our high standards of education in this country. Therefore, we are going to maintain that and maintain the right of our learners to go to school. So, there is not going to be any closure. Thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
RATIFICATION OF THE MARAKESH TREATY
- HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE asked the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House when Government intends to ratify the Marakesh Treaty so that the blind and disabled persons in the country can benefit from easy access to published works.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
President, allow me to start by saying the Government continues in its mandate of articulating the rights and needs of persons with disabilities through enacting and ratifying disability legislation. Not so long ago, the
Government ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. In 2016, the Government through the responsible ministries, embarked on nationwide consultations to align the Disabled Persons Act to the Constitution. The proposed National Disability Policy currently awaits consideration by the full Cabinet. This clearly shows that Zimbabwe has made great strides towards advocating for the Rights of Persons with Disabilities through adoption of legislation which caters for the needs of persons with disabilities.
Likewise, the Government has started taking the necessary steps towards the ratification of the Marakesh Treaty, which mainly focuses on ensuring laws that allow for the production of books in accessible formats for the blind and visually impaired without the need to ask permission from the holder of copyright (author or publisher).
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with
Disabilities (UNCRPD) recognises that intellectual property rights (including copyright) can act as discriminatory barriers to the right of people with disabilities to read. The UNCRPD thus created Marakesh Treaty to facilitate access to published works for persons who are blind, visually impaired, or otherwise print disabled.
Zimbabwe is a signatory of the Marakesh Treaty since 2013. The Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliament Affairs has already written and submitted a memorandum to Cabinet seeking approval of the proposed ratification. We await a response from Cabinet to this request.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. PRESIDENT
OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Mr. President, I move that Orders of
the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 8 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON EARLY CHILD MARRIAGE
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Early Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN AFFAIRS,
GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to respond to the robust debate that was done on the 21st July, 2016.
Mr. President, I rise to thank the Hon. Sen. Makore who is also the Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development for raising the motion on child marriages. I would also want to thank all members of the Committee. I would like to thank them for making an effort to gather evidence on the causes and impacts of early child marriages.
I would also like to thank Hon. Senator on the robust debate on the motion, research and information gathered by the Thematic Committee and the debate raised on this subject matter. It has given my Ministry more insights in developing strategies to end the scourge of child marriages.
I am in total agreement with the issues that were highlighted in the report as well as insights from various members of this august House. My Ministry has done several interventions to address the scourge of child marriages in Zimbabwe.
LEGAL FRAMEWORKS TO ADDRESS CHILD
MARRIAGES IN ZIMBABWE
Mr. President, we acknowledge the legislative provisions that address child marriages which are:-
1.1 Constitution
The Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) of 2013 on
Section 78 (1) states that “Every person who has attained the age of eighteen has the right to found a family”
Section 26 (b) “Children are not pledged in marriage”
Section 19 (1) “The state must adopt policies and measures to ensure that in matters relating to children, the best interest of the children concerned are paramount”
1.2. The Domestic Violence Act (2007)
The Domestic Violence Act provides for the protection of children from violence by identifying them as potential victims of domestic violence.
Section 3 (1) clearly states the following as unacceptable forms of abuse derived from cultural or customary rights or practices that discriminate and degrade women:
-pledging of women or girls for purposes of appeasing spirits; or
-forced marriages; or
-child marriage; or
-forced wife inheritance. I know when we say it in English it does not pull the heart. Forced wife inheritance Mr. President – kugarwa nhaka as in 2017. Ukungena owsintwana.
2. GAPS IN LAWS THAT CONTINUE TO PROMOTE
CHILD MARRIAGES
I am happy that the Constitutional Court outlawed clauses of the Customary Marriage Act Chapter 5:07 which had no limit for marriage as well as the Marriage Act 5:11 which allowed minors to marry by written consent of their legal guardians. This has been a positive move in our campaign to end child marriages.
However, it is critical to note that the same legislative provisions still have got limitations which this august House has to align. The gaps in laws that continue to promote child marriages are as follows:-
The Maintenance Act Chapter 5:09 in Section 14 states that maintenance for a child shall cease when they marry, meaning that the Act recognises child marriages.
Section 8 of the Matrimonial Causes Act states that a maintenance order in favour of a child shall cease when the child marries, meaning that it recognises child marriages.
The Guardianship of Minors Act Chapter 5:08 states in Section 4 (1) (b) that a parent who is granted the sole guardianship shall also have the power to consent to the marriage of a minor.
The General Laws Amendment Act Chapter 8:07 in Section 12 (5) permits the operation of laws that grant majority status at an age earlier than 18 years.
Mr. President, with the state of affairs of such gaps in our laws, I call upon this august House to realign these laws so that the issues I have highlighted are addressed in order to protect our girl children from child marriages. I do agree with the debate that there is need to implement concrete activities that address the root causes of child marriages, for example economic hardships referred to in the report.
- THE MINISTRY’S INTERVENTIONS
Mr. President, my Ministry has not been sitting on its laps. I would like to outline the interventions that my Ministry has been doing to address child marriages.
The following has been done:
-Launch of the African Union to end child marriages which was held in 2015.
-Held a massive march in February 2016 in celebrating the constitutional ruling outlawing child marriages which some Hon.
Members here present attended.
-The Government of Zimbabwe is carrying out advocacy and awareness raising campaigns throughout the country to sensitize people on effects of child marriages.
-Provinces are engaging traditional leadership in dialogues on ending child marriages. The Chiefs developed a communication on ending child marriages as far as in 2013.
-The Ministry is working with partners in carrying out radio programes on the campaign to end child marriages.
-Also use of Mai Chisamba Show as a media strategy to reach out to many people is being carried out with various partners.
-We are also working with the Apostolic Christian Council of
Zimbabwe (ACCZ) and Union for the Development of Apostolic Churches in Zimbabwe (UDACIZA) on the campaign to end child marriages. The ACCZ have conducted sensitization meetings within their churches in all ten provinces.
Mr. President, all stakeholders under education, economic, empowerment, reproductive health rights, safety and protection and leadership development have been working tirelessly together with my
Ministry to end the problem of child marriages.
More specifically, the Ministry working with development partners is developing a National Action Plan and Communication Strategy on ending child marriages. The National Action Plan is being finalised.
The Action Plan will focus on the following:-
- Coordinated response by all stakeholders in ending child marriages so that we speak with one voice.
- Participation of young women in activities to end child marriages.
- Education ofgirls which entail increased school retention of girls in secondary school.
- Alignment of marriage and child protection laws to the Constitution.
- Capacity building of law enforcement agencies Curriculum development.
- Developing partnerships with traditional leaders.
- Strengthening community based child protection mechanisms.
- Socio and economic empowerment of girls.
- CONCLUSION
Madam President, I would like to end by emphasising that the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development seeks the support of this House in pushing for a speedy realignment of laws and the adoption of the SADC Model Law, as well as the marriage Bill that is being drafted by the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Mr. President, let us all be ambassadors of ending the early child marriages scourge in our constituencies. Let us be the guest of honour at every function within our Constituencies. It will get us somewhere. I thank Mr. President.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Minister. I want to take this opportunity to thank your Ministry for showing respect for Parliament by responding to this motion. We have been crying for this from various Ministries. Some Ministries never appear to respond the way you have done and I want to say special thanks to you for being here as Deputy Minister Damasane and I hope other Ministries will take a leaf from what you have done.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President. I want to take this opportunity also to thank the Minister over the response to this well debated motion on early child marriages. I also would want to thank all the participants who participated in this debate and really expressed concern as regards to early child marriages.
As has been spoken, Hon. President, there seems to be a lot of work to be done as regards the constitutional alignment to sort of align all these pieces that have been mentioned by the Minister so that they also comply with the current Constitution.
Yes, there have been some launches, we do agree, but I have stood here, Mr. President, to move a motion to adopt this particular motion that we raised, so that it becomes something so much more tangible.
Thank you very much Minister.
I therefore move that the motion on the Second Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Early Child Marriages be adopted.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I also want to
thank you for being patient for all this time until the Minister has come to respond. Thank you.
Motion forthwith adopted.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Mr. President. I wish today to wind up the topic as I have been advised by administration that the rules are that it has achieved its maximum number of days allowed on the Order Paper. However, I wish to thank again all those who debated and those who did not debate. It is their democratic right to do so. I suppose not standing up to debate a motion is also a decision and a constitutional right.
However, it generated intense debate. That is how it should be in a democracy. I think that is what Senators should do in a mature manner. With your permission, Mr. President, I would like to lengthen this debate if you allow me, since I am going to move for an adoption, for me to really thank all those who supported by reading out their names as a way of thanking them and then I will respond to those who actually also expressed a different view.
Mr. President I wish to thank Sen. Murwira for supporting the motion, Sen. Bhobho, Sen. Komichi, Sen. Mustvangwa, Sen. Goto, Sen.
Mawire, Sen. T. D. Khumalo, Sen. Manyeruke, Sen. Makore, Sen.
Mavhunga, Sen. Juba, Sen. Mashavakure, Sen. Maluleke, Sen.
Chimbudzi, Sen. Machingaifa, Sen. Ndlovu, Sen. Mumvuri, Sen. Chief
Chiduku, Sen. Chief Nembiri, Sen. Chief Dumbu Sithole 4, Sen.
Muronzi.
I thank them all for supporting the motion vigorously with passion for Zimbabwe’s population. However, Mr. President, I also wish to give a reply to six senators. If you wish I can read their names. Their sole objection to the motion was, Zimbabwe’s economy is not right for such a move. Mr. President, Zimbabwe’s economy is number two to South Africa. That is an economy. An economy characterised by a various number of activities - manufacturing, mining, transportation etc.
Most economies in Africa are dependent on one functional thing.
Until recently, Zambia’s economy was dependent on copper which has a functional weakness on the world market. Once nobody buys copper, the whole economy collapses, there is no economy; equally the same with Botswana diamonds. That is not an economy. Yes it is not. They may say the standard of living is very high, the GDP – these misleading statements about GDP are so misleading. The day no one buys diamonds as diamonds are only bought by those celebrities with excess money and not everybody. You know it is not an economy really when you run on an economy like that. When you compare to Zimbabwe’s economy, Zimbabwe’s economy is vibrant, it is brilliant, it is doing well.
It is characterised by policies that work, as it is at the moment.
Now, Zimbabwe’s economy – if you want, Mr. President, go to any supermarket anywhere, whether you are in a turf which is some kind of rural area, whether you are in Kadoma, go to OK, in Chinhoyi, in
Shurugwi, you go to any supermarket, look at the number of trolleys. Everybody is shopping. Is this an economy that is collapsing? Is this an economy that you can actually cry and say things are not working? Look, the economy is brilliant. What do you want us to do? Who does not have problems?
So, this argument to shout that look, Zimbabwe’s economy is collapsing and we are Senators. That was some of the argument here by some of the Senators saying no, we cannot adopt these policies of actually encouraging population to grow because our economy is in shambles, what shambles? This economy is doing well. Even our
President once said this when he was in South Africa, that Zimbabwe’s economy is number two. Zimbabwe has developed and we have gone ahead. Look at the roads we are constructing; the mining; our Command Agriculture. Mr. President, unless you want me to read, there are only six people who brought in the economic argument that no, we cannot embark on population as a sort of encouragement. I move….
HON. SEN. MARAVA: On a point of order. Mr. President, the Hon. Member is now debating. We thought he was going to wind up his motion but now he is debating to such a depth that it arouses our anxiety to debate.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Mr. President. Zimbabwe’s
economy is not fragile. Therefore, we should embark on foresighted policies. We should have depth and understand international trends; what is happening all over the world. That I already debated. I do not want to tell you the advantages of bigger populations; I can go into history and show you what happens if we do not have people. Even fighting war, you cannot fight a war if you do not have people. Mr.
President, I move that the motion that (quote) be adopted. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
order. You know Senator Musaka is a General, a very educated General. He is loaded with a lot of competences but just to comment and say, I think in this House we are debating. Once we say debating, it means there will be different views. If we all agree; in fact we should accept that for us to be of any value, when we debate we should have divergent views.
Some people who have written a lot said, wherever there are more than three people and all agree, it means there is someone who is not thinking. It is very healthy that we have divergent views. It only means that we have exhausted all eventualities and possibilities so that when we move ahead, we know the possible pitfalls and then we take care of them. So, it is healthy that we debate in different direction but at the end of the day, we adopt the motion.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA,
INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN.
MATHUTHU) the Senate adjourned at Thirteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until, Tuesday, 13th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday 21st June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
OPEN LEARNING CENTRE CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOPS
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I have to remind the House that the Open Learning Centre is inviting Chairpersons of Committees to two and half day capacity building workshops on Friday, 23rd June and Monday, 26th
June, 2017 at the Meikles Hotel, Mirabelle Room, from 0800 hours to 1400 hours on each day. Lunch and refreshments will be provided.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 40TH PLENARY SESSION OF THE SADC –
PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC – Parliamentary Forum held in Harare, Zimbabwe from 3rd to
15th November, 2016.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President.
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 In line with Strategic Goal Number Seven (07), the Role of Parliament in National Development, the strategy to analyse and debate policies and legislation for national development, the 40th Plenary
Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was convened in
Harare, Zimbabwe from 03 to 15 November 2016 under the theme,
“Statelessness in the SADC Region”. Thirteen countries (13) countries were represented at the Plenary which included: Angola, Botswana,
Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Lesotho, Malawi, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Seychelles, South Africa, Swaziland, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
1.2 The delegation from Zimbabwe which was led by Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda, Speaker of the National Assembly, comprised the following Members of Parliament:-
Hon M. Mutsvangwa, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Dr. S. Mukanduri, Member of Parliament;
Hon. T. Mohadi, Member of Parliament; Hon. I. Gonese, Member of Parliament, and
Hon. J. Toffa, Member of Parliament.
1.3 The following Members of Parliament attended the Plenary
Assembly as observers:-
Hon. J. Passade, Member of Parliament;
Hon. J. Mhlanga, Member of Parliament;
The late Hon R. Bunjira, Member of Parliament; and
Hon. E. Murai, Member of Parliament.
1.0 OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONY
2.1.1 KEY NOTE ADDRESS BY HON. E.D. MNANGAGWA, VICE-PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS
2.1.2 Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa, the Vice-President and Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, officially opened the 40th
Plenary Assembly. In his address, Hon. Mnangagwa commended
SADC PF for identifying “Statelessness” as the central theme of the 40th Plenary Assembly as it is critical in ensuring the final ratification and implementation of the SADC Protocol on the Facilitation of the Movement of Persons of 2005.
2.1.3 The Vice-President outlined the challenges associated with statelessness which include difficulties in travelling, marrying and accessing education and health care. He implored on SADC Member States that have not acceded to or domesticated the 1954 UN Convention relating to the Status of Stateless Persons and the 1961 UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, to ensure that this is done speedily.
2.1.4 On the recurrent topic of SADC PF’s quest to transform itself into a regional Parliament, the Vice-President, encouraged Member States to lobby their Foreign Affairs Ministers to include the matter on the agenda of the next SADC Summit of Heads of State and
Government.
2.1.3 STATEMENT BY THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE
REGIONAL WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS (RWPC)
2.1.4 Hon. Dr. Patricia Kainga Nangozo reiterated the fact that women bore the brunt of statelessness through lack of gender neutral citizenship laws. Dr. Kainga indicated that women lose their citizenship upon marriage to foreigners and are unable to pass on their citizenship to their children.
2.1.5 The Plenary Assembly was informed that there is incontrovertible evidence that when women are in charge of politics and the economy, great improvements are realised in the socio-economic conditions of a country.
2.1.6 Finally, she advocated for fifty percent gender equality to be a reality, applauding Zimbabwe for introducing a quota system which tremendously contributed to the participation of women in Parliament.
2.1.4 ADDRESS BY DR. E. CHIVIYA, SECRETARY-
GENERAL OF THE SADC PF
2.1.4.1 In his address, Dr. Esau Chiviya applauded Zimbabwe for hosting the Plenary Assembly for a record fifth time, which spoke to
Zimbabwe’s commitment to the values of the SADC PF. He implored Member States to seriously consider the transformation of the Forum into a regional Parliament and commended the ninety three percent turn
- out to the 40th Plenary Assembly Session.
2.1.5 HON. NJOBVUYALEMA’S STATEMENT
2.1.5.1 Hon Njobvuyalema, the outgoing Vice-President of the SADC PF, lamented the failure by the regional body to attain the goal of transforming into a regional Parliament and urged the Forum to intensify efforts for that transformation.
2.0 SYMPOSIUM ON THE THEME: “STATELESSNESS
IN THE SADC REGION”
3.1.1. Five (5) resource persons made presentations on the theme and these included:-
- R. Tabagwa, the Country Representative from the United
Nations Refugees Agency (UNHCR) in Zimbabwe;
- M. Reuss, the Senior Regional Protection Officer on
Statelessness of the UNHCR in Southern Africa;
- T. Mabonga, an Associated Protection Officer of the UNHCR in Zimbabwe;
- I. Matambanadzo, a Gender Specialist, and
- L. Muller, the Director of Statelessness Programme and
Lawyers for Human Rights in South Africa.
- It was noted that Statelessness is a global problem affecting about 10 million people without nationality. In Southern Africa, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are stateless.
- Causes of Statelessness emanate from forced displacements, inaccessibility of services by public administrations, disintegration of traditional family bonds, discrimination on the grounds of gender and non-recognition of migrant workers, among others.
- The impacts of Statelessness include lack of identity for the affected persons, challenges in getting married, denial of property rights, and inaccessibility to social services such as health, education and restrictions of movement, among others. The most affected groups are women, children, refugees and migrant workers, who in times of conflict and upheaval, experience amplified levels of sexual violence. The Plenary noted that women carry a disproportionate responsibility in raising children conceived out of conflict situations.
- National governments were urged to scale up political commitment to address specific vulnerabilities of stateless women and children in a humanitarian manner.
- International and regional agreements which protect the rights of stateless include the 1954 Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons and the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness as well as the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child.
- National Parliaments were called upon to accede to these instruments, support the drafting, adoption and ratification of protocols and work towards the development and adoption of a SADC Ministerial Declaration and Action Plan on Statelessness. Parliaments within the region were implored to note the vacuum in the appropriate and enabling legislation to mitigate and eliminate the root causes of statelessness and initiate legislative reforms that address identified gaps or challenges, including discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or gender, thereby helping to prevent statelessness.
- In their individual capacities, Parliamentarians were urged to join the “I belong” campaign which is a Global Plan of Action to End Statelessness by 2024, spearheaded by the UNHCR.
3.0 MEETING OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
The Committee deliberated on the following matters:-
4.1 Parliamentary Studies Institute (PSI)
4.1.1 Firstly, to ensure sustainability of the PSI, it was agreed that funding for the Institute would be drawn primarily from Member contributions instead of co-operating partners only. Secondly, a resolution was made to write formal letters to Members of the Executive in Zimbabwe that include Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa, Vice-President of the
Republic of Zimbabwe and Hon. Prof. J. Moyo, Minister of Higher and
Tertiary Education, notifying them on the location of (PSI). It is trite to note that the University of Zimbabwe was identified as a suitable venue of the (PSI).
4.2 Election to the SADC-PF Executive Committee
4.2.1 Hon. Fernando de Pledade Dias dos Santos, Speaker of the
National Assembly of Angola took over the Presidency of the SADC
Parliamentary Forum, deputised by Hon. Monica Mutsvangwa of
Zimbabwe.
4.3 Annual Contributions by Member States
4.3.1 It was agreed that the mode of currency for annual contributions by Member Parliaments should remain as the Namibian dollar or the South African Rand. Member States were urged to settle outstanding arrears of subscriptions by the first quarter of 2017. As at 04 November, 2016, Zimbabwe had settled all outstanding contributions to the Forum. It was also agreed that the Forum should establish a timeframe with a grace period for payment of subscriptions, after-which a defaulting Member will be suspended and re-admitted upon clearance of all outstanding contributions.
4.3.2 The Annual Mandatory Contributions for the financial year 2017/18 were maintained as those of the 2016/17 financial year, with each Member Parliament contributing ZAR 1,430,000.00, except for the
Parliament of Seychelles whose contribution was pegged at ZAR
121,000.00.
5.0 TREASURER’S REPORT
5.1 Increament in Annual Member Contributions
5.1.1 The Plenary agreed that Member States should consult with their national governments regarding the proposal for a 10% increament in Annual Mandatory Member contributions, and to give a response before the end of 2016.
5.1.2 Approval of the Budget of 2017/2018 Budget
5.1.3 A budget, outlining the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the 2017/18 financial year was approved.
6.0 LAUNCH OF THE SADC MODEL LAW ON
ERADICATING CHILD MARRIAGES AND PROTECTING
THOSE IN MARRIAGE
6.1 Statement by Hon. J. Njobvuyalema, Outgoing Vice-
President of the SADC PF
6.1.1 Hon. J. Njobvuyalema, highlighted the importance of the Model Law in protecting the rights of the girl-child both in and outside marriage. Some of the rights in the Model law relate to access to family planning services, education and other entitlements to uplift the socioeconomic well-being of the girl-child. Hon. J. Njobvuyalema appealed to the legislators to develop strategies to popularise the Model law in their countries for effective implementation.
6.2 Solidarity Message by Melissa Kubvoruno a Nineteen (19) year old girl (Girls Champion and Ambassador for Ending Child,
Early and Forced Marriage: Rozaria Memorial Trust)
In her solidarity message, the nineteen year old, young woman urged the Parliamentarians to address the following:-
6.2.1 Domestication of the SADC Model law so that it becomes an authoritative source of law.
6.2.2 Enactment of a single marriage law to ensure clarity on the rights of the girl-child.
6.2.3 Implementation of commitments in the SADC Model law in order to address the social and economic issues that influence child marriages.
6.3 Launch of the Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and Protecting those Already in Marriage
6.3.1 Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa, Vice-President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, officially launched the Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and Protecting those Already in Marriage on 12 November, 2016.
6.3.2 In his statement, the Vice-President alluded to the importance of the Model law as an essential tool to provide evidence-based information on how SADC countries can address child marriages, in light of inadequate or sometimes conflicting related legal instruments. The Vice-President outlined that the Model law could easily be adopted or adapted by the SADC Member States as they reform or develop legal instruments and policies pertaining to Child Marriages. Given that the
Model law is now recognised as a working document, the Vice-
President encouraged the SADC PF Secretariat to consider transforming it into a SADC Protocol on Child Marriages.
6.3.3 In order to raise awareness on the Model law, SADC PF was encouraged to organise workshops with key stakeholders, which included Parliamentarians and the media.
7.0 PLENARY SESSION
7.1 In tandem with its constitutive mandate, the 40th Plenary Assembly deliberated and resolved on various issues of regional importance and concern as set out in the Executive Committee Report,
Reports of the Standing Committees and the Regional Women’s
Parliamentary Caucus and Members’ motions.
7.1.2 Motion for the Adoption of the Prevalence of the dual
Epidemic of Tuberculosis (TB) and Diabetes around the World
7.1.3 The motion was moved by Hon. Ahmed Munzoor Shaik
Emam of South Africa, seconded by Hon. Jasmine Toffa of Zimbabwe.
The motion noted that according to the World Health Organisation (WHO) Report of 2016, T.B. still poses a serious public health concern despite major progress in reducing TB cases and deaths in the past two decades. The WHO also predicts that diabetes will be the seventh leading cause of death by 2030.
7.1.4 To address this challenge Member States were called upon to:-
- Commit themselves in addressing TB-Diabetes at an African and SADC level by kick-starting discussions on how this new health challenge that is likely to surpass the challenge of TB-
HIV in the future can be addressed.
- Establish a regional collaboration mechanism to conduct surveys, detect and manage TB disease prevalence among people with diabetes and vice-versa.
- Develop monitoring and evaluation tools to regularly assess the implementation and efficacy of such collaborative mechanisms.
- Consolidate, domesticate and implement various instruments to address TB-Diabetes.
7.1.5 The Plenary Assembly, therefore, urged Member States to commit themselves to bring the TB pandemic to an end and ensure a reduction in mortality rates from non-communicable diseases including diabetes.
7.1.6 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.2 Motion for the Adoption of the Tackling Hunger in
Southern Africa
7.2.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Lukamba Paulo of Angola, seconded by Hon. Elias Enock Luka of Malawi. Sustainable agriculture was identified as a key factor in ensuring food security in the SADC region. It was noted, however, that the region has a number of trade barriers militating against full agricultural production.
7.2.2 In this regard, the Plenary resolved that:-
7.2.3 Investment in agriculture is key to development in the region.
7.2.4 Parliaments are encouraged to ensure adequate budgetary support to the agricultural sector to ensure food security.
7.2.5 Member Parliaments to ensure the existence of policies which promote investment in agriculture at household level as a developmental strategy and prioritize the allocation of arable land to small households.
7.2.6 Member States to prioritise capacity-building from lower grade professionals to higher education graduates in agriculture and veterinary services, with a view to modernise agricultural production.
7.2.7 There is need for a deliberate empowerment programme for farmers, which includes availing the means of production such as affordable farming implements, tractors and inputs, seeds and irrigation equipment.
7.2.8 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.3 Motion for the Adoption of the Need for SADC Member
States to Expedite the Signing and Implementation of the Tripartite Free Trade Area Agreement (TFTA) aimed at creating an Enlarged Market Extending from Cape to Cairo.
7.3.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Jasmine Toffa of Zimbabwe and seconded by Hon. Ernest Yahaya of Malawi.
7.3.2 The motion focused on the strategies of facilitating InterAfrica trade to ensure that citizens derive maximum benefits from their natural resources by acceding to the Tripartite Free Trade Area
Agreement (TFTA).
7.3.3 The agreement seeks to create an enlarged market extending from Cape to Cairo. Non-signatory Members within SADC were encouraged to take the necessary steps to accede to the (TFTA) whose aim is to enhance the exploitation and beneficiation of African natural resources.
7.3.4 The Plenary was encouraged by the fact that 26 African
Countries had signed the TFTA.
7.3.5 The need to expedite the ratification process for the TFTA Agreement by Member States in line with their constitutional requirements was noted.
7.3.6 Member States were urged to enhance the beneficiation of their natural resources pursuant to the need to enhance value addition.
7.3.7 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.4 Motion on the Negative Impact of Political Violence on
Women’s Participation in Politics
7.4.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Dr. Jessie Kabwila of Malawi, seconded by Hon. Shaik Emam of South Africa. The motion outlined the strides women had made in ensuring their participation in politics but decried the situation where in the majority of SADC countries, women were still experiencing gender-based harassment and violence in politics.
7.4.2 In a bid to achieve gender parity in the political field, the motion called upon Member States to:-
7.4.3 Take targeted political, legal and administrative measures to deal with gender-based violence which discourages women from participating in mainstream politics;
7.4.5 Member States to take note of the negative impact of political violence to women’s political participation and educate political leaders against violence; and
7.4.6 Undertake research on how other countries are addressing political violence, including case studies from Latin American countries.
7.4.7 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.5 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Standing
Committee on Human and Social Development and Special
Programmes (HSDSP)
7.5.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Shaik Emam of South
Africa, seconded by Hon. Jasmine Toffa of Zimbabwe; and
7.5.2 The report noted that there are laws and policies on Sexual Reproductive and Health Rights that need to be reviewed in 23 countries including some in Southern Africa.
7.5.3 Parliaments need to consider the following areas:-
7.5.4 Provisions relating to the minimum age of consent to sexual activity need to be clearly spelt out in legislation. Conflicting legal systems, particularly statutory and customary laws need to be harmonised.
7.5.6 A solution needs to be found on the criminalisation of consensual sexual acts amongst adolescents, where boys end up in prison.
7.5.7 Legal gaps on the age of consent to medical treatment including access to contraceptives, HIV counselling and testing and termination of pregnancy should be addressed.
7.5.8 The sexual and reproductive health and rights for vulnerable adolescents and youth, like those living with disabilities need to be enshrined in law.
7.5.9 Parliaments implementing SRHR, HIV and AIDS and
Governance Project, through the Office of the Speaker, should take the Project seriously and ensure that the activities are implemented timeously to ensure that the Forum maintains its good standing with its cooperating partners.
7.5.10 Parliamentarians are urged to advocate for the establishment and implementation of strong birth registration systems in their respective countries which will support the effective enforcement of protective legal provisions for children in health rights.
7.5.11 Member States are urged to move with speed to harmonize the dual legal systems, where they exist, to ensure the expedited elimination of child marriages.
7.5.12 The Plenary Assembly adopted the motion.
7.6 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Joint Committees on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment (TIFI) and that of Food, Agriculture and Natural Resources (FANR) 7.6.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Tambudzani Mohadi of Zimbabwe, seconded by Hon. Lukamba Paulo of Angola.
7.6.2 The report focused on the energy crisis which has adversely affected the productivity and competitiveness of SADC economies. A power deficit which is attributed to inadequate investments in power generation and transmission infrastructure in the past two decades was noted.
7.6.3 To address this challenge, Member States were encouraged to pool their financial resources together for the development of hydropower from the Inga Dam, which has the capacity to meet the needs of the African region.
7.6.4 Member States were called upon to:
7.6.5 Establish and promote cost effective tariffs which should include safety nets for the poor and disadvantaged in the region.
7.6.7 Utilise public and private partnerships as well as international financing in order to meet the high cost of investing in energy infrastructure.
7.6.8 Domesticate and implement the SADC Protocol on Energy (1996), and ensure complimentary but coherent regional visions, policies, plans, strategies, codes and standards.
7.6.9 Ensure Parliaments use relevant Portfolio Committees to exercise oversight over the energy sector including its policy and institutional framework.
7.6.10 Member States were encouraged to use Public Private
Partnerships (PPPs) as well as international financing in order to meet the high cost of investing in the energy infrastructure.
7.6.11 SADC Parliaments were urged to ensure that the relevant Portfolio Committees on energy play a greater oversight role on the sector and advocate for coherent cross-border regulatory policies.
7.7 Motion for the Adoption of the Report by Regional
Women’s Parliamentary Caucus (RWPC)
7.7.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Dr. Jessie Kabwila of
Malawi, seconded by Hon. Monica Mutsvangwa of Zimbabwe.
7.7.2 The motion called on Member States to review laws, policies and practices that adversely affect the rights of women and girls as they relate to statehood and citizenship. These groups are highly prone to losing their nationality due to various factors such as forced displacements and gender discrimination.
7.7.3 The Plenary Assembly resolved that:-
7.7.4 The SADC PF Secretariat and the Speakers of National Parliaments should monitor and implement the resolutions of the 38th and 39th Plenary Assemblies which highlight the need for gender balance in electoral observation missions sent by respective National Parliaments.
7.7.5 Parliaments of Malawi and Zimbabwe should be recognised for successfully launching the ‘he-for-she’ solidarity campaigns which seek to advance gender equality in society; and
7.7.6 Parliaments should monitor budgets to ensure that necessary financial and other resources are directed towards gender equality initiatives and programmes for the implementation of existing and emerging commitments.
7.8 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Committee on Gender Equality, Women’s Advancement and Youth
Development
7.8.1 The motion was moved by Hon. Patricia Kainga of Malawi, seconded by Hon. Sikhumbuzo Ndlovu of Swaziland.
7.8.2 The motion called on Member States to grant young people and women opportunities to fully participate in national development programmes. Parliaments have a role to allocate adequate budgetary provisions to sectors that empower both women and young girls such as education and health. Furthermore, the Committee proposed that the theme of the next SADC Plenary Assembly should focus on the youth. 7.8.3 The Committee appealed to the SADC PF Secretariat to implement the institution’s policy on gender balance in all Standing
Committees in line with a resolution made at the 39th Plenary Assembly.
Some of the countries that were violating the resolution included the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Seychelles and Zambia.
7.8.4 The Plenary Assembly was urged to ensure gender balance in Standing Committees in terms of Rules of Procedure.
7.8.5 Member Parliaments were urged to ensure that budgets have the necessary financial provisions and resources towards gender equality initiatives and programmes for the implementation of existing and emerging commitments.
7.9 RESOLUTION ON THE AMENDMENT OF THE SADC
PARLIAMENTARY FORUM CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE, 12
CLAUSE 3
7.9.1 Through a waiver of Article 29 (2) of the SADC –PF Constitution which provides that any Member Parliament may submit a proposal to amend the Constitution to the Secretary- General for preliminary consideration by the Executive Committee (EXCO), it was acknowledged that at a special meeting, on Friday 11 November 2016,
EXCO agreed to waive the three months’ notice period and resolved that Clause 3 of Article 12 of the Constitution of the SADC PF be deleted and substituted with the following:-
“Members of the Executive Committee shall hold Office for a term of two years and shall retire by rotation: Provided that the former Treasurer, two Presiding Officers and two Ordinary Members, to be nominated by the Executive Committee, shall for transitional purposes, continue to hold Office for a further one year as e-officio Members with full deliberative but no voting rights”.
7.92 The amendment was adopted.
8.0 Recommendations
Resolution | Action | Timeline | |
8.1 | Revive Negotiations on the
Transformation of the SADC PF into Legislative Body |
The Speaker of the National Assembly,
Advocate J.F. Mudenda, to engage the Minister of Foreign Affairs before the next Plenary Assembly Meeting scheduled for May/June 2017. |
01/04/ 2017 |
8.2 | Location of Parliamentary Studies Institute at University
of Zimbabwe |
The SADC Parliamentary Forum to write to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education advising them of the proposal to set the PSI at the University of Zimbabwe. | The Secretary General has since written to the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education. |
8.3 | Raise awareness on the
SADC Model Law on Eradicating Child Marriage and Protecting those Already in Marriage |
Administration of Parliament to distribute copies of the Model Law to all the legislators and conduct training programmes.
|
Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. |
8.4 | Raise awareness on Statelessness | SADC PF legislators to raise awareness on the “I belong” campaign on the prevention and elimination of Statelessness by 2024. | In-time for the next Plenary Assembly. |
8.5 | Increament in Annual
Member Contribution by 10% |
The Speaker of the National Assembly to consult the Executive on the capacity of Government to absorb the 10% increament on Annual Contributions by Member States. In the meantime, the annual contribution to be maintained at the 2016/2017 level of ZAR 1, 430, 000, 00. | Before the next
Plenary (May/June) |
8.6 | Budgetary support to Public
Institutions on Citizen Registration |
Legislators to ensure adequate budgetary support is given to public institutions on citizen registration. | 2017 Budget
Allocations |
8.7 | Secretary-General’s Residence | The shortfall for one million Namibian dollars for the purchase of the
Secretary-General’s residence should be sourced from the Member States particularly those with outstanding contributions |
By December 2017 |
8.8 | Members of Parliament to join the ‘I belong’ campaign. | A global plan of action to end
Statelessness by 2024 spearheaded by the UNHCR |
On-going
|
8.9 | SADC Protocol on Energy (1996) | Portfolio Committee on Energy to make a follow-up on complementarity in regional power strategies to ensure a shared vision | Before the next
Plenary (May/June) |
9.0. Conclusion
9.1 Parliament of Zimbabwe was able to successfully host the 40th Plenary Assembly session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum for the fifth time. This would not have been possible without the support of the Government of Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe Tourism Authority (ZTA), Katswe Sisterhood and the local chapter of the United Nations Human Rights Commission (UNHCR). The Plenary Assembly created a platform to share ideas and experiences on issues that directly affect the citizens of the region and to promote regional integration. The Forum also created an opportunity for the participants to identify policies and laws that need to be ratified, particularly on the theme of the Plenary. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me an opportunity to second the report on the SADC Parliamentary
Forum which was the 40th Session held here in Zimbabwe held from the 3rd to the 15th November in Harare. We are grateful for the report because it was the 5th time that Zimbabwe was hosting the SADC Parliamentary Forum. I want to further thank those who represented us as Parliament who were led by the Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Advocate Jacob Mudenda and all other Members of Parliament even those who went as observers.
If this is held again in this country, we need more observers. We realise that most observers were from the National Assembly. So, when this forum is held again in Zimbabwe because it does not have any financial implications, we would also want to attend so that we get to hear of some of these debates. Maybe in future you may be selected to go and represent others at such fora.
Mr. President I am grateful for fact that when the opening was done at the SADC PF, the Vice President Hon. Emmerson Mnangagwa emphasized on the theme of the Plenary Session which was on statelessness. We heard that if you are stateless, you are not free to move around. If you do not have documents, it becomes difficult for you to be mobile and you cannot be educated, even accessing medical services, you will not be able to do so. So, what we are saying is that it is difficult for one to be stateless. When it comes to marriage, who will receive the lobola because people will be asking who to give the lobola to and where the relatives can be found. We really support this Mr. President and we thank the Vice President for emphasizing on that issue so that if there are other countries who had not signed the 1954 Convention to consider the status of statelessness in 1951 Convention; they should do so.
I had not even been born in 1954 and when these conventions were done in 1961 that is when I was born. So, it is something that was realised a long time ago. If there are other countries who have not committed themselves within SADC to sign this protocol in order to end statelessness, they should reconsider. We want to thank the Vice President as the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for urging the countries to sign the protocol in order to end statelessness. I also want to thank the Vice President on urging this Senate; we once spoke about this in this Senate that SADC Parliamentary Forum wants to have its own regional Parliament.
I am happy that the Vice President also encouraged them to work with the Ministers of Foreign Affairs so that this issue is put on the agenda at the next SADC Head of States Meeting. I believe this is something that is already underway. It is also important that adoptions are done in this report on certain laws. So, it is good if we have a Regional Parliament because as a region, we can have common laws so that when you travel in the region, you are aware of the various legal instruments and laws. We see it as being important that this lobby be done to ensure that we have a Regional Parliament, not just for you to remain a forum but to do like what happened at the AU, where they now have a Parliament. These are the words that came from the Vice President and we really applaud him for this. We also realised that at this plenary session, he also realised that there was the launch of the
SADC Model Law on Child Marriages and those already in marriage.
As we debate this matter, it put us high on the world map as Zimbabwe because it shows that we are ahead. The Vice President also echoed the same sentiments. Even the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development is also working on it. The
Women’s Caucus is also moving with the agenda on ending child marriages. At our various workshops, we are talking about the issues of child marriages and have a mission to eradicate child marriages and also supporting the SADC Model law. At the launch of the SADC 40th Plenary Session, the person who gave the solidarity message encouraged that we have harmonisation of marriage laws. He said that we must align our laws so that one law will not contradict another. We have Chapter 5:11 that permits a monogamous marriage and then we have the other one that allows polygamy whereby a person can join in that marriage as a second wife because they are looking for good living and we also have the traditional marriage. All these marriages should be brought together and harmonised in line with our Constitution and should put emphasis on the marriageable age of 18 as it is in the Constitution. This was a 19 year old girl who was urging the countries to take up the SADC Model Law in order to address the issues of child marriages.
The other things that are in the SADC Model Law are access to education for children, access to family planning and it is something that will urge us to continue implementing this law. We are hoping that as
Zimbabweans, we will adopt this as a legal instrument and we are ahead of the matter. I want to thank the SADC Plenary because there were so many recommendations.
I was proud to hear a number of names of our parliamentarians. I heard the names of Hon. Toffa, Hon. Sen. Mohadi and Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa. They are all moving motions and it gives us pride to know that our members are participating. There were over 13 countries but amongst them we had our members being mentioned. We also encourage the issue of ending hunger. In Zimbabwe, we are ahead because we have command agriculture, command wheat production and command livestock. We are also moving towards command fisheries so we are a step ahead in terms of eradicating hunger. If we put in mind the issue of nutrition as is always emphasised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo so that we all have nutritious diets; all that was discussed at the SADC 40th Plenary Session. The issue of establishing linkages from Cape to Cairo was mentioned. We need to establish those market linkages to sell our wares. I became over excited when the issue of violence was mentioned especially when considering women who want to venture into politics.
It was realised that in terms of governance, if women are present, there is development. We heard it being talked about and we should not deny that as a House right now, we are focusing on elections and we are encouraging more women to take up politics but you begin to demonise those women. That is what we call violence. It is violent for you to prohibit women from entering into politics. Mr. President, I am happy that at SADC PF level, they realised the need to bring up such a motion that encourages us as women to take up politics.
However, I cannot conclude without mentioning that as Zimbabwe, we managed to get the Vice Presidency of the forum which is held by Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa and we are applauding this. It gives us pride that we have people with the capacity. I would want to thank the debate that we have in this House and we want to thank the Government that when this plenary session was held, we were not in debt. So, I think that is why we were able to get the Vice Presidency position because before, we were always in debt. So, I hope that in future we will not accrue debts.
With these few words, I want to thank you and also give others time to make their contributions. For the work that was done, we applaud the SADC Parliamentary team. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I have also stood up to add my voice on the motion before us that was brought by Hon. Sen. Mohadi. We also want to thank her since she was one of the delegates at the SADC Plenary Session. Firstly, I would want to congratulate Zimbabwe that for the first time, we are not in arrears because on all reports that were tabled in this House in terms of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, we were informed that Zimbabwe had failed to take part in certain things because they were in arrears or we were told that we are in need of such an amount of money. So, we want to thank the Government and the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development who fought hard for us to pay our subscriptions to the
SADC PF.
I would also want to thank the delegates who represented the nation, debated with others and we also appreciate being a member of the 13 countries of the SADC PF.
We understand that two countries were not there and it is good for us to participate where others dialogue because we also learn a lot and it gives us an oppportlunity to see our weaknesses and our strengths as well. It is like we can talk about Committees that are going round the country. When we were going out, we would see that Committees are exposing us to a lot of things that we did not know when we thought that everything was in order. So, that is the same with some of these countries. We get that exposure and we share experiences.
Most of the issues were mentioned by Hon. Sen. Mohadi and some were mentioned by Hon. Sen. Mavhunga, especially on the issue of violence. The issue of violence is a challenge. When I heard Hon. Sen. Mavhunga talking about violence, I realised that the Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Gender was excited and that issue was also mentioned by the Vice President, Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa. It was on gender based violence and other issues such as early child marriages. Other children are forced into marriage because of poverty and others are used as payment to appease spirits. So, when the Chairperson heard this, she was really excited about it and we congratulate you as the issues are being taken on board. Even the whole of SADC has taken it up because it is an issue that is of regional concern. So, we want to congratulate the Chairperson and her members of the Gender Committee.
Hon. Member, you mentioned a lot of issues. You mentioned other policies that were there – about the laws. When you mentioned it, you did not mention other laws that were amended or what exactly was amended. I was also happy to learn that all countries in the SADC were also looking at the diseases that have become a menace in this land and I am sure that they will work together in order to end these diseases such as diabetes, TB, High blood pressure as well as HIV/AIDS. Those are issues that were discussed. It is encouraging to know that all countries are concerned about this. Most countries are affected by these diseases and others cannot even access drugs because they are expensive. So, the fact that these issues were considered, gives us joy in that the SADC PF will look into it and ensure that the drugs become affordable to everyone.
We also want to thank the discussion that was made on the suggestion that the SADC Parliamentary Forum should have its own regional Parliament. It is a good move because, you will find Members of Parliament from Zimbabwe, Botswana, Malawi and Kenya all becoming members of the regional Parliament and it will strengthen the region because we will be discussing issues that are affecting the SADC region.
I also want to thank the elevation of Hon. Mutsvangwa as the Vice President. If the SADC Parliamentary Forum wants to pass certain things, we have our Member who will come and appraise us on what will be happening.
Most times we bemoan issues that, what we say should be done but we have realised that some of the things that we have done have been actioned and implemented already, especially that one of the SADC Model Law. We debated that issue strongly and the Vice President mentioned it as well as the Minister. This shows that we are working as a Parliament. So, we should go and unearth some of these ills so that we bring them to the fore because the issues of gender based violence were discussed here in Zimbabwe and we debated on the matter and now we are waiting for the Bills to come but at the SADC Parliamentary Forum, it was mentioned. So, we want to thank SADC for that.
We also want to thank the President of the nation, who is also the Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces who is always preaching peace. The SADC Plenary Session would not have been held here for the fifth time had there been no peace in Zimbabwe. They will be coming to Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe is a peaceful country and everything is there. We also have tourist attractions and if they want, they can go to Victoria Falls and other tourist resort areas. So, we really want to thank all that. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion. I would also want to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for moving this motion on the Report of the 40th Plenary Session of the SADC PF. As she was reading her report, I realised that it is important that the 15 SADC countries should periodically meet to discuss issues affecting our region.
She mentioned that 13 countries attended and I am sure reasons were given why the other two were not able to be represented but normally they do attend. What I realised is that sometimes as a nation if we just mention our laws without countries that give us the best practices especially on the issue of statelessness. I heard Hon. Mohadi mention that she is doing a campaign titled “I belong”, which means that when the 15 SADC nations meet for the next Plenary Session, we will see the report. So, the 15 nations will declare war on statelessness and that will assist in ensuring that everyone has documents because all countries will be working together.
That is not the only thing that they are doing. They have also declared war on HIV/AIDS and TB. On the issue of TB, there was a workshop that we attended recently and I realised that as a country we need to do awareness campaigns because TB is affecting people whether you are HIV positive or not. It is a disease that is well known. It started years ago. Even in the Bible it is there. So, as nations we need to assist each other and see what we can do as a region. I see this as a way forward and it will assist us in eradicating some of these diseases as we begin to engage in dialogue as SADC countries.
What I also applaud is the issue of the war that we have started here in Zimbabwe that we do not want early child marriages. The countries in the SADC region have also said no to child marriages. If all countries in the SADC region declare war against child marriages, it is a good move than for us to say in Zimbabwe we do not want it and South Africa says no, we are for child marriages. It becomes a challenge for us to implement that law. So, I am really excited by the work that is being done by the SADC PF.
I want to thank all the Hon. Members of Parliament, Hon. Mohadi and others who are representing us. If there are other areas where we are going wrong, they can identify those and we see how we can solve that and develop. I really appreciated this SADC Plenary Session. Furthermore, it is encouraging to note that these countries are also coming to Zimbabwe to see our country. What made me happy is that the Vice President was there and he showed understanding while encouraging other countries to end the issue of statelessness.
Everyone must belong to a country and everyone should have an identity document. For one to be employed, you know if you leave your House and get on a bus, are involved in an accident and die on the spot, it is difficult to identify you and inform your relatives but as SADC if we declare war against statelessness, I see us developing.
Another issue mentioned was on gender based violence (GBV). I am repeating most of the things that have already been mentioned by the previous speakers. I want to emphasise on gender based violence. I am sure you can see that if 15 countries declare that we do not want gender based violence, do you think we cannot eradicate this? I personally see the eradication of GBV – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – If you do not report, it is not our fault. As women, if we are beaten we will rush and report at the nearest police station. You men do not want to report. We are not ashamed, we will go and report. So, if you men are beaten up you should also go and report, and then we will find a way forward.
The issue that was emphasised was that politically if there are men only and there are no women, there is no development because we also have a lot of issues. Long ago, there was an issue that we need to group as women. However, it has been noted that women will always choose a man to represent them. I see the 15 countries educating each other that women are needed at the decision making level. We are not saying that we want to be ahead all the time but we are saying politically; let us assist each other because we are the ones who cook. So, the campaign that is being made by SADC, I support it. I belong and I belong to
Zimbabwe. I thank you Hon. Sen. Mohadi.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NON-ESTABLISHMENT
OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of
Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion that was tabled by the Thematic Portfolio Committee on Indigenisation and
Empowerment chaired by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa on Non-Establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts.
Mr. President, I think the Government came up with a good initiative on this matter because that is what was assisting our people in rural areas on their development assisted by their natural resources in their communities. My view is that this programme was not implemented properly in all areas as was anticipated by the Government. In my view Mr. President, I think the programme was taken but was not clearly laid out as to how it should go in terms of the law. It was supposed to plug all loopholes that are there in the law. Most of these people were talking to the qualifying business and some of them are the white minority whom we fought during the war. Most of them are foreigners. This means that their mindset of developing the rural area is negative. It roped in the chiefs. What happened in terms of implementation pains us because the traditional leaders have lost their authority and power?
Mr. President, the issue of lack of legislation to address the indigenisation and empowerment is of concern. The Government said all Community Share Ownership Trusts should be done nationwide but in Mutoko and Mudzi, nothing was done. We did not see any followups being done by the Government to establish why the Trusts for these two districts were not done. This means there was no legislation in place to do this. If there was legislation binding them, they could have done this. Furthermore Mr. President, the whole nation – for those who were able to do share ownership trust and were successful, we see development taking place because we saw schools and clinics built. Other districts were able to buy rigs to drill boreholes in these communities. The issue of water challenges has been lessened.
Mr. President, in other districts, we understand that communities were given cheques of one million dollars and other different amounts but those people did not honour their pledges, after giving the President the cheques to say this is what we are committing ourselves to and those companies are still operating. No one goes after them, why is that so? We are greatly pained when we are told that the President stands before the nation – you know wherever the President goes, people come in their numbers and you see the President handed a cheque that does not mean anything. Ten years later, no one follows up to that commitment or pledge. What pains me the most Mr. President, is that most companies are foreign. Why are they not arrested if the law is there? I think those Trusts are still there and most of the traditional leaders, some of them in here are the chairpersons who were given papers that have nothing.
We are seated as Government thinking everything went on well. I was thinking that we need to revisit this matter. If there are loopholes, they should be plugged out. There should be a law in place that binds and ensures that the indigenisation and empowerment community share ownership trusts are successful. What is the Ministry of Indigenisation and Empowerment doing to ensure that what was said by Government is done? If they are not doing it, what is the problem? That should be discussed. I was thinking that the Committee, chaired by Hon. Sen.
Tawengwa did not do justice. They should go to the Community Share Ownership Trusts that were established so that they find out who gave out cheques and made pledges and why they did not honour those cheques. They should go round the country so that we can call the Minister of Youth and Indigenisation to him accountable as to why these companies did not honour their pledges and obligations.
We thank them for going to Mudzi but the Committee has assisted us and we need to look deeper into it because this is the tip of the iceberg. Overally, how can the President be given a cheque which is nothing. In Masvingo, there is Renco Mine that is still operating but it gave the President a cheque which is valueless, why? If there is no legislation, as two Houses, we need to pass legislation to deal with those loopholes and ensure that these companies honour their obligations. It is embarrassing that we are here in this august House coming up with legislation but we are failing to deal with the issue of Community Share Ownership Trusts. Mr. President, I am deeply pained when it comes to this matter but there is nothing much we can do because those leaders who are in Government are just quiet and we tend to wonder why they
are just quiet. It is painful...
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: You need to
repeat that statement. Repeat that statement Senator, it is sweet.
HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Mr. President, what I am saying
is that when you hear people talking of corruption, you cannot deny it because you realise that those that are supposed to deal with corruption are getting something out of it. With these few words Mr. President, I urge Hon. Sen. Tawengwa’s Committee to complete the job. They
should be given funds to go to all the areas and see projects that took off. For those that were not carried out, they should bring them to Parliament so that we ask why the projects have not been implemented. I thank you.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Senator,
you have done well. Hon. Sen. Tawengwa, you have been challenged to complete your work. They have said that the chiefs who are the traditional leaders, why are they silent when these things are so bad.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to debate on the motion on the report by Hon.
Sen. Tawengwa on Indigenisation and Empowerment, seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Dandawa. Mr. President, in my debate I will not dwell much on those community trusts that have not been established but dwell mostly on those community trusts that have been established.
I wish to remind Hon. Senators that I believe that the Community
Share Ownership Trusts were established three or four years ago by His
Excellency. His Excellency went around the country launching these Community Trusts. There was a lot of enthusiasm and excitement about the launch of those Community Trusts, obviously because everybody thought that they were vehicles to development -particularly in rural areas. Little did we know that those qualifying companies that attended most of those launches were just disguising. They were not serious.
They displayed dummy or fake cheques. Like the previous speaker said, that is disrespecting the Head of State and the nation as a whole. I am saying this because those qualifying companies have not fulfilled their pledges to date. As a result, most of the funds that were disbursed to those few trusts that we established are now dwindling. Very soon, there will be no trust to talk about in this country.
Like what other Hon. Members have said already, there is need for us as Hon. Members to urge the relevant Ministry to revisit the statutes so that we can have a look at what we should do in the event that other people default their pledges. As it is now, it is just a gentleman’s agreement, anybody can pay as and when he wants to pay.
All these qualifying companies have boards that look at, among other things, their dividends and profits - but in all those boards, there are no representatives from our communities. As a result, we are not sure what profits they accrue and what is due to those community trusts. For as long as we have no community representatives in those boards, we shall always cry foul, because we do not know how much they raise in profit and how much they are supposed to be paying to the community trust.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Interestingly,
why are Chiefs quiet when things are so bad?
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I wish I had an answer but I do not have an answer at the moment.
I think it is important for us, particularly as traditional leaders who happen to chair those community trusts to urge the Ministry so that we have representatives, not necessarily from the traditional leaders but even from the community leaders will be able to furnish us with the information from the mines. As it is, we are in the dark as to what is accruing to them.
We have a few community trusts that I believe are doing well, although I have not had a chance to visit them. I understand that they are not doing badly in Zvimba, Gwanda, Umguza and Bubi where I come from. Like I said earlier on, the funds will be dwindling and there will be no trust to talk about anymore because most of those qualifying companies are not forthcoming.
If I had my way Mr. President, I would urge this Committee on
Indigenisation and Empowerment to visit not those who have established – I do not know why they even visited Mutoko; those who have not established community trusts, but those that have established community trusts and all of them in the country and do an assessment as to whether these community trusts are achieving any meaningful development within the communities. If I had the resources, I would have given them yesterday so that they would visit all the community trusts.
With those few words, I would like to thank you for allowing me to contribute to this report.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President for
allowing me to talk about this interesting report on Community Share Ownership Trusts tabled by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa which was not done properly….
*THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Just to
protect Hon. Sen. Tawengwa and the person who spoke, there is no one who said that he did not do justice with his Committee but he is saying he has done well but he is only being told to go beyond the investigations.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: What was said about Hon.
Sen. Tawengwa was also said about me because I am also in this Committee. There is something that was said before about the gentleman’s agreement, meaning to say that there is no law that says that the qualified company is obliged to give you something.
When we spoke to Ministry officials who do that, they were open to say that a pledge is a pledge. It is like proposing and if one disappears and goes, that is it. It is not legally binding. There is nothing in written form that forces a person to honour the pledge. That is where we find one of the challenges. That is not an obligation and they are not obliged to honour. It is just a pledge that I will but the ‘I will’ may not be fulfilled tomorrow. That is the first challenge that this is not binding.
What did they say in English?
What I am saying is that a pledge is not binding. Once you say pledge, it is like a person standing up to say that I will do this. For example in church, pledges are made. People stand up and say I will give $100 and people just go without honouring the pledge. Let me leave that example.
On the issue that the Committee should have gone to various areas, that is a good idea but the challenge was that of financial constraints. If the money was available, we would have gone to other places. We went to Mudzi and Mutoko because that is where we could afford. The Chairpersons in those areas –Hon Sen. Tawengwa, Hon.Sen. Chizema and Hon. Sen. Mavhunga know the challenges. I think our Committee has only gone out the second time. We wanted to go to all the other areas but we failed because Parliament does not have money.
The Speaker normally tells that during the budget Members of
Parliament should push for a higher allocation. He has implored us not to pass the budget but in this House, we only hear about it being discussed and we never get to hear what is happening. In the other House maybe they know what is happening, but they should ensure that if resources are not allocated to Parliament, the Budget should not pass in the National Assembly. So, all these years we have not been able to get allocation; it is now four years. Every year we are complaining that Parliament does not have enough money. We were lucky that there are some who were able to fund us.
We were supposed to go to Zvimba. It covers Chegutu and Mhondoro – the trust. Those in Gwanda and Bhubhi came here and we were able to talk to them. We also heard through gossip that the Community Share Ownership in Zvishavane is going on well and we also heard about Marange, but we never managed to talk to these officials. We only heard that the marriage of convenience had failed in Mutare. So, we need to represent our Parliament so that we are given resources in order to be able to conduct our oversight function.
You will also realise that there is another challenge that is there on Community Share Ownership Trusts in that there are papers that are supposed to be processed by the Government. For example, those that enable districts are able to get 10% ownership of shares. It is written somewhere, but the Government itself and the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment shows that they drag their feet. We witnessed that in Bindura, the Company Freda Rebecca Mine came and explained to us, as well as other representatives of the community. They said they had the commitment to ensure that Bindura gets its 10% Share Ownership Trust and this document was taken to the Ministry in May, 2015 but the papers did not come back. We never asked them thereafter if the papers were processed. So the Ministry is also dragging its feet, complicating everything.
In Bikita, we were told that the officer who was dealing with the matter passed away and there was no replacement to take up the matter to ensure that the processes were done by the Government for the papers to be ready. So, there are so many issues and at times, like I said, for those who tell you that they want to give you US$50 000, probably they give you US$1 000, as they end up relaxed.
You will realise that there are no companies in Mutoko. These are just flying companies. Probably they are named qualifying companies, but they are not really established companies. I am not talking on behalf of the Committee, this is just my opinion. The companies there have very nice names, but I think most of them are not even companies, they are just called qualifying companies because they are just there.
Probably, they are just companies registered at the deeds office.
You cannot compare it to Lafarge Cement which has a Share
Ownership Trust in Umzumba-Maramba-Pfungwe (UMP) and
Mabvuku. These are big companies that are well known and if they promise you US$300000, they own up, but if you move from the initial seed money, if you do not get the 10% Share Ownership Certificate, it means it ends there and you will not proceed in anything. With US$300 000 in UMP where they wanted to build a college, you would just have started to put a foundation for the college and the process ends there because you cannot get the money. So, that is why I am saying the Government needs to play its part and expedite some of these procedures so that the blame is left on the so called qualifying companies. So, I think it is best if things worked out that way.
There is also another challenge. Currently, even those who wanted to do Share Ownership Trusts, it now requires the launch of the
Government. Before, you would just go to Sabhuku Mashavakure’s house and they would do their launch there, but now it has to be done provincially. So, right now in Mutoko, it should have been established. They want the launch to be done by the Government. They also want to find out if Hwedza, Goromonzi and UMP have something so that they have a provincial launch and that is delaying establishment.
In Mutoko, when we asked, they told us that they were waiting for provincial launches so that they allocate resources towards the launch. So, I think that move to do a provincial launch is also affecting the establishment of the Share Ownership Trust. What I am saying is, the Government should ensure that everything functions well because companies are dragging their feet and the Government is also dragging its feet in terms of processing documents. So, they are actually working together to ensure that the Community Share Ownership Trusts are not established.
So I think in my opinion people really, want to work. People really want to be given money. Other companies want to give money, but there are challenges that I have mentioned that derail the process. So in the end, no success or development takes place. I think from now the
Government should do its work, the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment should carry out its mandate.
In Mutoko, I also remember that long ago, before 1990 when mining granite started in the 1970s, the granite stone was called a natural resource. Most of the money went to the district of Mutoko but later on the Government changed the law to say that it is a mineral. So if it is a mineral most money now goes to the Government and it is under the Minerals Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe (MMCZ). So now at the district level, they do not get anything. I think they get US$1 per tonne of the granite rock, which means if a truck carries 18 tonnes, they only get US$18. For you to get money to develop or improve on roads and other infrastructural development - like what they say they built Mutoko High School and hospital in Mutoko before the stone became a mineral,
it is difficult.
So, I think the Government should leave some of these issues to the traditional leaders in the district. They should just ensure that there is transparency and work is being done following laid out procedure because instead of development there is under development. So, I think it is a good idea for the Government to leave the black granite to be run as a natural resource by the district itself.
I am sure there was an issue of the weigh bridge - the workers at the council are told that the truck that passed has 85 tonnes. They use different roads, some of them exit through Kotwa and others can go through Corner Store in Murehwa. So, there is no accountability on what has gone out. I think most of the things that I wanted to say have already been said. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAROZVA: Thank you Mr. President for
the opportunity that you have given me in support of the report by the Committee chaired by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa. I do not have a lot to say but just to add a few things that have been left behind. Most things have been said by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane.
The traditional leaders have been given the leadership role on this issue but the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment has a department known as NIB, which goes to qualifying businesses and discuss without the chiefs. They are the ones who are given money and put it in accounts. As what Hon.
Mashavakure said that in Bikita, there was someone who was working at NIB and he passed away. After his death, two/three years down the line, there was no one to take up the issue and the chiefs were just seated there waiting for someone to come in, without knowing what to do.
There was no one to talk to the qualifying businesses and the company board, no one in the Trust is a member of it. So, they discuss here in Harare. They do not discuss in the communities where we are but we are only told that the money is in the account. We are only told to utilise the little funds that will have come but when the agreement on the pledges were made, you were not there.
I wanted to respond on why the chiefs are quiet. The traditional leaders are not quiet but that there are some who have said that you need to use that money and keep quiet. It is not a sin for us to remain silent. I cannot give names, may be they are here or they may not be here. What I want to say is we need to assist each other in this august House. If we agree here and the law is there, that if a person pledges to the President, that pledge should be honoured as made because what happens is that we are told it is a pledge and they are not obligated to honour it. So, we need to come up with something binding for them to honour the pledges.
With these few words, I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG Number 3.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS, on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the report that was brought in this House by Hon. Sen. Timveos and seconded by Hon. Sen. Masuku. This report comprised of almost everything. We are talking just to emphasise on what was said. I realise that sometimes you cannot say everything or contribute to all the reports.
When you are listening to debates and you realise that people are talking about things that they know and not only contributing, it is a matter of you adding your voice but talking about something that you know. You will realise that the debate becomes interesting.
There are only four issues that I want to point out as a member of the Committee, that I also participated. I realised that in all the areas that we went to, especially to the institutions of higher learning; the universities and colleges; we started in Masvingo, like what was highlighted in the report that we went through almost all the provinces, from Masvingo we went to Gweru. One major problem that was identified was the issue of accommodation.
When we went to Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo Polytechnic, students were complaining a lot, especially on the issue of accommodation. Even if the accommodation is there, it is not enough to accommodate all of them. Even to the other places that we were touring, it was the same, although with Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo, the problem was a bit too much. Most of the students who go there are elderly and a few young ones. The difference is that if you are an elderly person and you are paying for yourself, it is better because you can choose to live in the campus or rent outside.
My emphasis is that the Government should try by all means to build accommodation for the students so that if they choose not to stay at the college, it is either because of the expenses or their own choice or that they do not like the food that is prepared for their meals. I would like to emphasise this to Government that they should build enough residential places for the university students. The Government should also give those grants that they use to give way back to universities. Those grants used to help students a lot. As highlighted in the report, for some students to go to college or university, the parents had to sell a beast. When the students go to universities, they will not know what exactly will be needed at the universities. The parents will only be thinking that what is needed for them to pay for is fees only. When students get there, they are given a list of things that are needed at the college and all those things, they will not be prepared to pay for them.
What disheartens us is that there are some elderly people, when they go to university they will not be having a clear vision on what exactly it is they have come to do at the colleges. At colleges there are some students who want a high lifestyle that they cannot afford for example having expensive cell phones and hairstyles. You ask yourself whether the student knows exactly why they are at college. Long back, some students used to go to school bare footed and some of them used plastic bags as satchels. This is one thing that we must acknowledge that life is never the same to everyone. You have to know your background and not succumb to peer pressure.
What also disheartens me is the issue of condoms which they highlighted that there are some condoms that they do not want freely distributed but prefer the expensive flavoured ones. Most of the things that I am highlighting, the speakers who spoke before me highlighted on that. If you really want to behave like a normal human being, you must appreciate your situation and not refuse to use freely given condoms whilst you do not have enough money to buy expensive ones.
I know that our Hansard is uploaded online, some will listen to radios and some will have access to hard copies, I know they are going to hear that this is what the Committee said. One thing that I know is all university students are regarded as mature people. Throughout our tour, we combined all the students and elderly people; we talked to them differently so that they will freely talk on what they want. Some of them highlighted that they want the perfumed condoms. As parents, honestly how do you feel when you hear your child saying such things? If we are parliamentarians, it does not mean we are not parents anymore, we are parents and we go out and hear such things from students, it is really disheartening.
There is a saying that says when you see your neighbour’s child doing something that is wrong, it does not mean that your child is not capable of doing that same thing. All that I am trying to say is that those at colleges, universities and those at home, one thing that we all have to know is that HIV/AIDS affects everyone; people must not take it for granted. At the end of the day, you get your education but you die before you even use the certificate that you acquired.
You would have spend four years at the university or even progress to PhD or doctorate and at the end of the day you will not be able to use those certificates. There is a saying that says when you stay at the same place, you will not be able to learn other things. They say cancer and BP cannot be cured. Some of them will say it is better to have HIV/AIDS because it can be cured. If someone can have the boldness to say there are some people who are referred to as ‘blessers’ and others say if I engage in sex without a condom I must be paid US$50. Why honestly should someone demand US$50 that can buy groceries that can fit in two small plastic bags; before the end of the week, that grocery will be used up but you would have destroyed your
future.
We are trying to encourage, especially as leaders and as parents, all the Zimbabweans that people should take note of all the things that we are saying. I am impressed by what NAC is doing. They tried even to involve music galas to teach people on the use of condoms. Last week when we visited Midlands State University, I am not touching on the motion that is yet to come but I am just comparing, someone took freely distributed condoms and the ones bought in shops and asked three students to come and tell the difference. The students laughed but were not able to tell the difference. It is the same condom that they chose that they were saying is cheap that they opted for the expensive one.
Most of the times it is all about packaging that will then attract them. The most important thing is does that thing protect or it does not protect. It is my desire that this report be accessible to everyone. When they say that we want to achieve HIV/AIDS free nation by 2030, we really want to push for this. As we are contributing, all we are trying to do is to reduce the HIV/AIDS pandemic. As we talk like this, it is my desire that everyone has access to such information that we are contributing. There must be awareness campaigns on HIV/AIDS and child marriages so that people get to know. When we teach our children at a tender age, by the time they get to a certain age, they know what is right and what is wrong. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF
STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I just want
to add a few words to this debate on statelessness. I am of the view that the issue of statelessness is greatly underestimated. I am saying that because I am aware that the number particularly in the farms where large compounds are found, there are a number of children who have no documentation. Similarly for various reasons, there are numerous children in Matebelelaand who do not have documentation. In my opinion, it is not a very difficult situation to resolve because children have grown in communities where they are known to be children from that very community by the leadership around.
The process of acquiring identification documents is a serious challenge because; first you need the money to transport yourself to the offices. Secondly, you need money to transport witnesses to the offices. Thirdly, I am made aware that particularly for people who have to change national status; the amount of money that is required is unaffordable. My argument is that I do not understand why a birth certificate should cost something like $5 and why a lost identity card should cost something like $10, particularly knowing the state of poverty that is in the nation where the average person does not have a dollar to live on, on a daily basis.
There is an argument that there are no legal instruments and I do not believe that we need a legal document or a law in order to allow our children born in this country to have identity documents. I am aware that in my opinion it is common sense that we should provide those documents and it is my assumption that whatever legal document that will be crafted, it will be based initially on that common sense. Let us look exactly at the challenges that face these people whose status is not clear. They enjoy very limited civil rights. In law, they are not employable and if they happen to be employed, you cannot register them with NSSA. They lose all privileges because of their status of being stateless and in general, we underestimate the cost of having people who are stateless.
Mr. President, this takes us to the issue which was debated relating to Zimbabweans who are arguing and in my opinion entitled to a state of dual citizenship largely because we as a leadership and as a nation are responsible for forcing them out of this country. In the countries of their new residency, or in the countries of their employment, those people eventually earned citizenship. After they earn citizenship, because their own nation State has been hostile to them in one way or another, when their identification documents of Zimbabwe expire, they are required to denounce their dual citizenship status.
It is in my opinion a very unconvincing argument in the sense that we know what has led those people to look for dual citizenship and their status in the external country is dependent to some extent on holding the citizenship in that country yet we are the cause and we are sort of also the prosecutor and we are the judge. I believe that we should be sympathetic to our own people and ensure that wherever they are, vakachengeteka.
I believe that we are taking a civil liberty away from our own people for reasons that we have created. In my opinion, it therefore defeats the logic and it borders on being on an exercise that I would call in Shona, hutsinye on your own people. I believe that we should allow our people to enjoy that kind of citizenship.
In short Mr. President, my presentation to this House is that we grossly underestimate the level of statelessness because it is not evident but people are born here, they have no identity cards and they have no birth certificates. We do not seem to have invested a co-related effort in attending to their problems. I therefore urge that Government takes this seriously. There is an argument that every five years when we go to the elections, people get an opportunity to register but I am sure that there are complications in that registration process. Secondly, the person has lost five years of privilege. Is that fair on the citizen? I believe that it is not fair. With those observations Mr. President, I thank you for the opportunity.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE
CONSTITUTION
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees (SDCs) and School Development
Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT SENATE: Hon. Sen. Timveos and
Hon. Sen. Ncube, I want to advise that in case you were not here, the Minister responsible for Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora was here last week on Thursday. He made a statement saying what is contained and whatever the information is about on the abolition of SDCs and SDAs, to him we are debating prematurely because that thing does not even exist today but Government is coming up with some legislation, a Bill. He says - why do you not wait for that time then we will debate the correct thing according to him? I think all those who were here got him right that we may debate but this thing does not exist as it was put in this motion.
So my appeal is, as the Minister has said – I think it will be something which is more factual, more substantive and that which we will have an opportunity to reject or accept. That is my advice. Thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President. I actually went through all the Hansards even though I was away last week. I have investigated and have examples for Harare. I want to ask if it is okay for me to debate this motion and give those examples of the schools that I have visited for the last two days.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Okay,
proceed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I rise to add my voice and support the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Khumalo seconded by Hon. Sen. J.
Ndhlovu which asked this House to align the Education Act to the
Constitution, cease forthwith the transfer of SDC/SDAs Funds to
Schools Service Fund, formulate a consolidated Statutory Instrument to guide operations of SDCs and SDAs taking into account stakeholders input.
Mr. President, I know like I said earlier on that the Minister was here last week even though I was not around but I have seen and gone through the Hansard. So, I was encouraged by what the Minister said and I then wondered where Hon. Khumalo got all this. I then went on to research. Mr. President, I do not intend to repeat what has been said by other speakers but I am happy that so far everyone in this House, going through the Hansard is in agreement that the SDCs have done a wonderful job and they should not be disturbed.
The Permanent Secretary and the Minister did say that there is nothing like that but Mr. President, I beg to differ. I went to Warren
Park, Mbare, High Glen, Glen View, Mufakose, Chitungwiza, Mabvuku North and Central, Tafara and Epworth. These schools are now transferring the monies that they are receiving to the main fund which is the Schools Service Fund (SSF). The main question now is, how they can do such a thing when the Hon. Minister and the Permanent Secretary as well have no knowledge about it because he gave a statement in The Sunday News to say there is nothing like that. Already, you have said that the Hon. Minister was here last week like I saw in the Hansard saying there is nothing like that. Meanwhile, all these schools that I have just mentioned are actually depositing their funds in this SSF account.
I am appealing to this House and the Minister, Hon. Dokora and his Permanent Secretary to actually investigate this because there is so much that is being done behind their backs. When they come into this House, they are under oath and cannot say things are not happening when this is happening. So, what are we saying? Do they know what is happening or they do not know? Mr. President, I want to challenge Hon. Dr. Dokora to investigate just in Harare because I know he is here and lives here in Harare. Unfortunately for him, if he does not know about this, that is why I insisted to debate on this because his name is being tarnished.
The parents of all these schools are not happy with this because what was happening with the SDCs, they were actually developing their schools and the money was managed from there, which actually helped Government to achieve so much. That is why our education rate is so high worldwide as Zimbabweans. Now, the parents are worried to say if the money goes to the main account, what is going to happen to those schools. Since Hon. Dr. Dokora said he knows nothing about it, I am challenging him to actually investigate the schools that I have mentioned and then possibly like he said, he can come to Parliament.
The parents of these schools that I went to are saying, we are not disputing the law. What we are not happy about is the lack of consultation. Every time the Hon. Minister wants to enact a law, he should come to us and ask what we think about the proposed law as parents of these schools, and we can actually direct him accordingly. When I spoke to the parents, which was yesterday, they actually want the Minister to come and address them because it looks like these schools have decided to go against the law. When you then talk to the schools, they are saying we were directed by the Minister to do so and use this account which they call the SSF account.
So, the Ministry should then bring the amendments to the
Education Act to Parliament for debate if it wants to make changes. Mr. President, the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education should abide by the laws of the country. The Ministry should immediately direct that all schools in Harare that have transferred SDCs Funds to SSF to immediately reverse the transactions because these transactions have already happened.
Mr. President, I really want Hon. Minister Dokora to actually look at aligning the Education Act to the Constitution of Zimbabwe and I will repeat, to immediately stop the transferring SDCs funds to SSF and formulate new consolidated Statutory Instruments to guide operations of SDC/SDAs after proper stakeholder input. The parents of all these schools are very proud of their children and they want the SDC/SDAs to carry on the good job that they have been doing, and for them because it is them that are paying these levies, they want to see how.
I know there is a bit of money that goes to Government and it is fine but levies are for schools to develop. They do not need to go to the SSF account. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to just say a few words. I am passionate about this because I actually spoke to a few of these committees last night. I am touched. Hon. Minister Dokora needs to clear his name because it is being dragged in the mud. I thank you Mr. President.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: This is for
those who were here when the Minister made his statement - very strange and probably shocking. The Minister said, currently there is no legal instrument that will enable any such transfer to take place. That is what he said – it is not possible, there is no such instrument but you are saying it has actually happened, which means there is an Instrument. It raises another issue; did the Minister lie to Parliament? Did he deliberately misinform Parliament? I would want to get further advice, even after this sitting, from the administration and do more research to see if it is contempt of the Senate.
For example, you come to the Senate and say what you want. You can just lie to Senators and say there are of no consequences; you can say whatever and get away with it or he was being honest and truthful, we do not know. I stand guided again by the administration after this sitting. I appeal to Hon. Sen. Ncube that this motion is still on the Order Paper and you can debate tomorrow. You will have an opportunity to continue after we have done research, because this is very serious. We have reached a very serious juncture.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I withdraw my debate for now.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd June, 2017.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: On a point of order Mr. President. When somebody withdraws a debate, does it mean that we have wasted ten minutes and it is not going to appear in the Hansard?
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Ncube had risen to debate and we asked her to defer her debate to another day. She did not say anything so there was no statement to withdraw. She is simply withdrawing the opportunity to debate. Hon. Sen. Mashavakure is very intelligent. He makes very smart observations.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE, the Senate adjourned at Six Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday 20th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
PARLIAMENTARIANS FOR GLOBAL ACTION (ZIMBABWE
CHARTER) ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that the Zimbabwe Charter of Parliamentarians for Global
Action will hold its Annual General Meeting on Wednesday, 21st June 2017 at 12 noon in the Government Caucus Room. New Members are welcome.
OPEN LEARNING CENTRE CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also have to
inform the House that the Open Learning Centre is inviting Chairpersons of Committees to a two and half day capacity building workshops on Friday, 23rd June and Monday, 26th June, 2017 at the Meikles Hotel, Mirabelle Room, from 0800 hours to 1400 hours on each day. Lunch and refreshments will be provided.
INVITATION TO THE 2017 PROVINCIAL FOOD FAIRS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also have to
inform the House that the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Gender and
Community Development is inviting all Hon. Members to attend the 2017 Provincial Food Fairs for the dried vegetables, cereals and fruits in all the provincial centres throughout the country on Saturday 1st July,
- Details of the programme have been placed in your pigeon holes.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 21st June, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 21st June, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I rise to move that Order
of the Day, Number 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day on today’s Order Paper have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NON-ESTABLISHMENT
OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. BHEBE: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to debate on this report. I would also like to thank the Hon. Member who moved this report, Hon. Sen. Tawengwa and the seconder, Hon. Chief Dandawa.
In my point of view, the report on the Indigenisation Committee is very important because it directly speaks to us as Zimbabweans. The report reveals that as a Committee, we went to Mudzi and Mutoko to find out more on the challenges they have when it comes to the aspect of Community Share Ownership Trusts. It is really difficult. There was a day when it was launched where people showed the President cheques. There were cheques that were issued that pointed to the fact that a particular company would support the programme. When I look into
this programme, I realise that it was meant to assist the people, the communities and the challenges they face at schools or local clinics that need to be built or renovated; it might be water challenges – that is why this programme was set up in the first place such that those companies like mines in that particular area would support this programme. When I saw those cheques that were given to the people, I think it was disrespectful on the part of the companies that gave out the cheques because they never honoured what they had promised.
Therefore, there is need that our Government makes sure that this programme moves on as it is meant to assist the people. In our Committee, we spoke a lot about Mudzi and Mutoko especially about the precious stones that are mined from there. We do not even know where the stones are taken to. Other Hon. Senators have already spoken about the confusion when it comes to which Ministry we would want to speak to in order to protect these precious stones. We do not know if we should speak to the Ministry of Mines or the Ministry of Indigenisation because these are two ministries that are supposed to work together. We need to know how they work together.
The journeys that we travelled as a Committee are very wide and long. Most of the provinces have similar problems. There are a few provinces where Community Share Ownership Trusts are functioning but in most places, nothing is happening at all. We do not know what causes this challenge.
I come from Matabeleland North and the province where I come from, there is a Community Share Ownership Trust. However, the Trust does not get enough money; we only receive money from a mine that is near the Trust because the mine assists on other issues in the community. It has assisted in building schools, clinics as well as hospitals. I remember that there is a hospital that needed its mortuary to be renovated and it assisted in that way. It also assisted women and youth groups for them to do small projects for themselves as well as the disabled and those affected and infected by HIV and AIDS. That is what we are looking at.
When we look at a Community Share Ownership Trust, that is how it should assist people in different communities. Therefore, Madam President, I think that this Committee has a lot of work. It needs to move around and meet particular ministries such that we know and we can be able to assist our people and know the challenges they face. We also have to know why these companies face so many challenges and do not honour their promises.
If only the Ministries could come here and answer our questions. If only they could shed light into what we are supposed to do because the problem of Mudzi and Mutoko is existing in Zimbabwe and needs to be solved as it is a challenge to the people who live in that community. I have heard some Hon. Members refer to the fact that we were supposed to give power to our chiefs because these places belong to the communities where they come from. I do believe that our chiefs are the ones who chair some of our Committees. When they chair these Committees in different areas, I am no longer sure if they are given the power and authority to make sure that the existing laws are followed.
Government agreed that the Community Share Ownership Trusts that are down in the communities should be chaired by the chiefs such that they are apolitical. If these are chaired by chiefs, they become apolitical and everyone is free with them.
Therefore, I am wondering - with the authority that they were given, whether they cannot manage to control what is happening with these companies. Also, what I would want to know from the Ministry, if the Minister was around is, if he could clarify to us which companies are supposed to assist the Community Ownership Trusts. Is it the mines only or it is any other company that is existing in that particular community because we are so confused? We are tired, we are working on our own and there is no one assisting us.
Apart from us being assisted by the Ministries and the Government setting up the proper laws, especially those who pledged to assist with particular cash and funds, nothing will happen. We will keep on walking in a circle and going backwards. Therefore, Madam President what I am saying is, there should be a law that is set up and they should make sure that law is functioning. If, as Government, we are not going to enact this law, there is nothing that is going to go ahead. With those few words, as so many other Hon. Members have contributed, Madam President, I would like to rest my case. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 21st June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Alignment of the Electoral Act to the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President. I want to
thank everyone who debated on this motion. I did not have enough time to compile a list of everyone who had debated, but I want to thank every Hon. Member, who contributed to this motion by debating. You did very well and I appreciate every sentence and every thought that you put into it and the research that you did. So, I want to move for the adoption of the motion that this House:
ACKNOWLEDGING the progress made by the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) towards assuming the Constitutional mandate of ensuring that elections are conducted efficiently, freely, fairly, transparently and in accordance with the law;
FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING the financial restrictions facing ZEC due to scarcity of resources allocated by the Treasury and the interest from the international donors, including UNDP, to assist in supporting ZEC as a key pillar of democracy;
AWARE that the desire by government to engage the International Community as economic partners for the development of Zimbabwe will also be enhanced by inviting the widest range of international players to observe and monitor our national elections;
AWARE that the holding of a transparent, free and fair election in 2018 will depend on the integrity of the voters roll as well as an enabling environment;
NOTING the slow process of aligning the Electoral Act to the Constitution means that there are areas wherein ZEC is acting unconstitutionally and that there have been actions by ZEC which have not been aligned even to the Electoral Act;
NOW, THERFORE, calls upon
- The Government to expeditiously align the provisions on ZEC to the Constitution;
- ZEC to urgently engage with partners to implement the biometric voters roll in order to fulfil the Constitutional mandate;
- Government to align the Electoral Act with the Constitution and crate an electoral environment that complies with Article 17 of the African Union Charter on free and fair elections.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE CONSTITUTION
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees (SDCs) and School Development
Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 21st June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MURONZVI: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to say a few words as regards the report tabled by the Committee on the Sustainable Development Goals, which is chaired by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane.
Mr. President, I rise to say that as regards this Committee, from the first time I became a Member of the Senate when the Committee was still known as the MDGs, now it is called SDGs we had not visited any place. It used to bother me as I was in this Committee as to why we were not conducting field visits and what the reasons were. I was at sea as regards that issue despite the fact the Committee is very important.
A lot of members left that Committee and we remained hanging in there - being curious to find out what was happening because of lack of the visits despite the Chairperson discharging his duties well. It even pained our Chairperson. I would like to thank you for steering this
Committee Chairperson and it hurt you very much. As a result of the Chairperson being hurt, I used gossip with others that we are unable to travel because our Chairperson is too quite. This really pained him, until he summoned the Clerk of Parliament to explain to us why we do not go out for fact findings.
The Clerk was not around by then but we met the Deputy Clerk. The Deputy Clerk apologised to us and that is when we went to our first visit in Murehwa. What we saw during the visit was mentioned by the seconder. I am mainly concerned by SDG Number Three “ensure health, life and promote wellbeing for all at all ages”. The statement implies that all ages should be looked after in terms of SDG Number Three. This is an important Committee. I realised its importance when we called Dr. Gwinji who explained to us that a lot of people are dying – about 17 million deaths are caused by diseases. He added that 8.2 million deaths were caused by cancer and 1.5 caused by diabetes.
I do not know why this Committee is looked down upon but when we went to Murehwa to visit hospitals, we were told that clinics and hospitals do not have medication. They did not have laundry machines and these are some of the challenges they were facing. I am trying to say that field visits help us to know better what is happening. This field trip opened my horizon and I appreciated the importance of the Committee when we went to this field visit. The health of a human being is important. It is my plea to the Clerk of Parliament to look for funding to enable us to cover the length and breadth of this country to see what the health situation is like in Zimbabwe. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Mr. President for this
opportunity to add my contribution to this debate on the report tabled by the SGDs Committee, which is chaired by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane. I am disturbed by the additions that were made by the previous speaker and I am concerned. An unhealthy nation has no development, that is why there should be co-existence between health and development.
The Committee did a splendid job when it looked at health issues and the state of the hospitals. They could have gone to Marondera and Mutoko but their field visit was an eye-opener. What they observed in those areas is what predominantly exists in most of the areas in this country. I support her recommendation that village health workers should be paid; they should be recognised and that they should be given sufficient tools of trade because they are with the majority of the people on a daily basis.
In the farming areas where I come from, they are referred to as Mai Utano or Mbuya Utano. When people go to these health workers, they are given malaria tablets before they are tested. These health workers live for the people. They also teach personal hygiene. So, for these health workers to discharge their duties in a professional manner, it is important that they be given a wage or salary and motor bicycles so that they can be mobile.
There is also the issue of donors who are the mainstay of the health of the people. I believe that Government should ensure that the 15% from each budget as recommended by the World Health Organisation goes to the health sector. People should be taught. A lot of people are dying due to lack of knowledge as a result of diabetes. When they die, people cast aspersions and blame it on superstition. More often than not, Hon. Sen. Khumalo believe that if we eat a lot of food we think we are enjoying ourselves but the truth of the matter is we are killing ourselves.
If it were possible the Ministry of Health and Childcare should have sufficient funding to ensure that they discharge their duty of ensuring that people live a healthy life. In Bindura, where I come from, we have a hospital where people pay $5.00 as consultation fee and they are examined by a Doctor. Thereafter, they go and buy medication from the pharmacy. We would want a situation where Provincial Hospitals have drugs so that patients can access them at the hospital.
We heard that in Mutoko, the X-Ray machine was not mounted although it had been purchased. It is not in use, maybe it is because of lack of expertise or the lack of persons who operate such equipment. So, I suggest that the ministry must employ experts who can be able to operate such machines. I rise to support that if we want real development and not have brain drain, we should have a health system that is well funded.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Mr. President, I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 21st June, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF
STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Mr. Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday 21st June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
*HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to debate the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Timveos who is the
Chairperson of that Committee and I am a member. Mr. President, the Committee travelled and incidentally this past week, it re-visited some of the institutions in conjunction with the Portfolio Committee of Health.
We visited one of the Universities called the Midlands State University.
I just want to comment on the activities which we observed there and history seems to be repeating itself. We must understand that we focused more on universities because that is where most teenagers are found, we call these institutions key populations.
In these key population areas, we find a high prevalence rate of HIV and AIDS than the national statics which is around 14%. You find that in young populations such as teenagers, including some of the key populations such as sex workers, minors, artisanal miners and truck drivers, there is a high prevalence rate which is above 20% and some are saying 29%. That was the purpose of our field visits to institutions of higher learning to find out the causes of high prevalence rate of
HIV/AIDS among the children who are the future leaders of our country.
Mr. President, I am worried about what is happening in institutions of higher learning. Some of the things might have been mentioned but let me repeat them. The first reason is poverty; this is one of the causative agencies in the spreading of HIV/AIDS because they are failing to look after themselves during their years in school for three to five years. The other reason is they become excited because they would have found new freedom, away from parents for the first time. The other one is peer pressure because they want to do what their friends are doing.
What worries me is that, regarding the Midlands State University, two things came out clearly. First, girls are falling pregnant, which is indicative that they are having unprotected sex. Some of them are saying that they do not want the type of condoms they are given. It is surprising that they are choosing playing with their life. They want flavored condoms; to me this does not mean anything. It means that they are having unprotected sex which leads to unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases. The same thing was talked about last week when we re-visited. We had Mrs. Nyamwanza from NAC. She brought condoms - the public distributed condoms which are not flavoured and the flavoured ones. She opened them and put them on a tray. The children were asked to choose between the flavoured ones and the unflavoured ones. The children smelt the two and they chose the NAC freely distributed condom and said it was flavoured, leaving out the flavoured one. What we are trying to prove here is that there is no difference between a flavoured condom and the one not flavoured and distributed for free, whether it is ribbed or strawberry flavoured, it means nothing.
Children must use condoms so that our HIV/AIDS prevalence figures go down and that they should not indulge in unprotected sex.
The report talked about the issue of less use of the female condoms.
One of the reasons that were given is that it takes a lot of time to wear. Be that as it may, I believe that girls should be encouraged to use the female condom. I also observed that the Midlands State University as the authorities at the institution; are not imparting skills or teaching these children to ensure that the children enhance their welfare.
What is happening at the Midlands State University is that as one of the largest enrolling universities which has 23 000 students, what are they doing? Yes, they are conducting lessons as you know; the
Midlands State University did not come into existence before the University of Zimbabwe and other universities. The Midlands State University only came on board later on. When they enroll these students, they are doing what is called “fund raising” and the fees that they are receiving from these students, they are not ploughing them back to ensure that the welfare of the students is taken care of.
This time around, we went to Zvishavane Campus. The Midlands
State University is situated in Gweru, but they have a campus in Zvishavane where we went. The information that we got from the students there is that they are complaining that the fees that they are paying, the funds are being channeled and used at the main campus. They now have campuses in Shurugwi and Mutare. Midlands State University is an overburdened with students – which is 23 000 while the largest and oldest one, the University of Zimbabwe has 14 000 students and all of them are not resident at the University of Zimbabwe.
Although universities cannot contain high numbers of students, they should have numbers that they can manage and contain. Midlands State University – the students are posted all over, where there are no hostels. They first build other blocks and request students to look for accommodation – where will they be looking for accommodation? A student who has come from Bulawayo and is now at a new campus would rent their own accommodation in Zvishavane. We are exposing our children unnecessarily to evil. The concept that we should grow, I believe that it happens in other countries but these countries have an economy which is ticking and at the moment our economy is not ticking. So, we cannot have campuses with satellite campuses in Mutare and such other places. It is not right because the girl-child is not empowered and they cannot be self-supporting. So, to send them away from their parents or guardians is to expose them to sugar daddies like ourselves whom they now call ‘blessers’, who then step in and end up taking care of them and they naturally abuse them. I do not believe that this is right.
In terms of the health facilities in these institutions, there are nominal health services – 24 hours per day but there is no such thing at the Zvishavane Campus. Maybe it is happening at the mother university and not at the Zvishavane Campus. Even when we were leaving, we asked the children where they were going and they said that they were going to their lodgings. I adopted a boy-child and I communicate with him. I did ask him to inform me what the state of affairs is like and once in a while I send him $10 through EcoCash to assist him. We just met as we were networking in our bid to get to know more about the students and that child greeted me and addressed me as Senator Mumvuri. I decided that we should discuss and I eventually adopted him. I am proud to say that even today, we have established contact with each other.
What I am saying is that, we should not dump our children but let us look at the enrolment and have figures that we can adequately take care of in terms of facility provision such as lodgings, hostels and library facilities. Although we were on a mission on HIV/AIDS, it does not come as a surprise that in Zvishavane, there are artisanal miners and other people. There are artisanal mine ‘blessers’ who are careless with their lives and our children are exposed to the dangers that I have earlier on mentioned. Generally in universities, when our children go there, we should tell them, especially the girl-child, I have children that are there and we should teach them to value their morals.
There are those that are champions of teaching others in peer groups and there is a peer group that is called ‘Say What’. In the
Midlands, a certain child came representing the ‘Say What’ group, which is supposed to disseminate information on HIV/AIDS. This is done through peer education but those children who are supposed to lead as good examples also misbehave. The child said that, they would do that because they cannot sit their in the lodgings when others are going to enjoy themselves. Others are enjoying pizza, so they join the group as a result of peer pressure but is that what you came to the university for? The children should appreciate that although they are teenagers, they are still children and they should not indulge in adult sex lives as their parents. They are going to the universities to pursue their learning. The parents sent you to school, they manage to pay school fees for you and they will have done very well in giving you basic things for your survival – having toothpaste, toiletries and such things. That is sufficient for you and you should not go there and drink beer. You never drink beer at your parents’ home and these are the bad results of peer pressure, especially the teenagers.
The boy-child is the one who instigates others into such behaviour although they do not suffer the same consequences as the girls. The HIV/AIDS issue in the universities is a cause for concern and still is a cause for concern. These are higher education institutions.
We went to Gweru and there is a group called ‘The Dreams’ and they are the same age group but they are children that are already mothers and fathers. Amongst this age group, HIV/AIDS figures are very high. As Government and parents, we still have a lot to do. We may blame sex workers, but they are not solely responsible since their impact is not as great. Artisanal miners, yes they might be but we are worried because these are population areas for HIV/AIDS.
In institutions of higher and tertiary, there are a lot of things that can be done. I do not know how best we can resolve this but I advocate that loans and grants be reinstated at universities so that our children are empowered. There is no other panacea to this. When we went to university, we used to receive pay-outs and were able to send our siblings to school after receiving such payouts. That is how we were empowered. So, it will be a matter of choice for a child to have a blesser and not because of circumstances. Because of the economy, our children are forced to have blessers and succumb to peer-pressure. Institutions of higher learning should have sufficient funding in the form of loans and grants so as to reduce this menace of HIV/AIDS. We may be thinking that we are going forward but after years, we may realise that there are no people to take over from us.
With those few words, I would want to strongly support this report. I thank you Hon. Sen. Timveos for leading this Committee. We were very objective and something must be done. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I want to add my voice to the report which was presented in this august House by our Chairperson Hon. Sen. Timveos. I am also a member of the same Committee. Truly Mr.
President, we visited the institutions of higher learning in Zimbabwe but we did not go round the whole country. We just visited a few of the institutions.
From the report that you got and from the contributions that are being made by Members who visited all these areas, you find that there is a lot that can be done in these institutions of higher learning. I say so because when we talk about that you find that these children have no protection whatsoever pertaining to the issue of HIV/AIDS. Meanwhile, we are trying to reduce the rate of HIV but in a way or the other, it is increasing because if there is no control of these children who are still sexually active, we are not going anywhere.
Mr. President, it was quite clear when we discussed with these children that they are having unprotected sex and as a result, there are high instances that these children can be HIV positive. There is great need that there be awareness workshops and meetings in these institutions so that children are aware of what HIV/AIDS is all about. You find that most of these children are at a denial stage whereby they do not even believe that there is AIDS in the country. They do not care about it. Sometimes they go to an extent of telling you that if other people are surviving, we will also take these tablets and survive also. This is very dangerous because we are looking at these young boys and girls who ought to build Zimbabwe and fathers of tomorrow but they become parents when they are already infected by HIV/AIDS. There is a likelihood of them bearing children who are also HIV positive which is very dangerous.
Mr. President, because you find that in some institutions they have clinics, I propose that medicines be made available in those clinics so that students get their ARVs within their complexes. You find that some of these children have to travel long distances going back to their homes to get ARVs because that is where they will be registered. By so doing, they end up missing lessons because no one will wait for them. So, we need to make medicines available at those schools.
Another thing which could also assist; there is need for testing machines within the campuses so that children do not have to travel long distances to be tested or get the CD4 counts and so on. There should be an extra budget to the institutions of higher learning because that is where our future generation is based. If they are spoiled from there, they will never be corrected again and that means we will carry on like that until no more.
Mr. President, I also propose that there be further outreaches to those institutions that we did not manage to visit. I think a lot is happening there and we have, as legislators, to protect these children because they are in danger. Five to ten years from now, the situation will be worse if there is no action that is taken because they are just like orphans without parents, yet we are supposed to be their parents. We have to protect them in a way or so. We cannot just look at them and think that their parents will take care of them. It is our duty as a country to take care of the school going children and they have to be protected because they have their own rights. What they do not know is that there should be some awareness workshop to make them aware of every little bit of information on how they can be protected and also how they can protect themselves.
I thought I should just add a few words because this report has been debated for quite a long time. You find that HIV/AIDS is not something very new. Most of our motions also cover HIV/AIDS. Whenever we talk about these issues, we will just be mixing things here and there. Some of the reports have not been reported because they are almost similar and we are facing almost the same problem. HIV is there, it is real and kills. We have to protect our children. With those few words Mr. President, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President and how are you? I have decided to debate on the very important motion that is before us. It is indeed a good motion. The report was tabled by the Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on HIV/AIDS regarding the
HIV/AIDS in institutions of higher learning in Zimbabwe and the
Committee regarding the HIV/AIDS issue has raised many issues. When the Committee went to Zvishavane, they were received by a group of sex workers that were very happy to be entertaining Parliament on that day.
Secondly, when they went to the university, they met a group that was saying because of the poverty prevailing in the country, it was proper for them to misbehave because they would want to raise food or it was for want of money to pay for their educational fees. As a result, they have the so-called blessers who then pay for their fees. They ended up into relationships with their blessers because they pay for fees and get sexual favours in return.
It is saddening Mr. President, that when we were growing up these universities used to have well behaved children that would go to such institutions of higher learning and the children were focused. Parents would know the reason why the child is going there and if they had no money, the child would not be going to university.
For those who put in their money because of poverty so as to ensure that they go there and attain better status, they would work for three years to repay the loan or they would be put on bonding by the Government. After three years, they would be free to work. The university students that we do have, once they have completed their studies do not want to repay their educational loans. My view Mr. President, is that on the issue that we have sex workers in the country – I asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services if we had sexual workers in Zimbabwe. Hon. Members of both sexes in here, if we are to clothe a father and a mother, we have a son and daughter not a sex worker. When we say we have sex workers, there will be a committee to represent thieves. In Rhodesia, we had the Zimbabwe African Thieves Organisation (ZATO) that recognises thieves and the rights attended thereto. If a sex has a right, she will be entitled to pension and what form of pension are they going to get – it is sickness and diseases. We do not have a company where we employ sex workers. We should not bless the issue of sex workers.
There was the issue of condoms that was mentioned by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri, it is true. I was asked by some young men who said there is some oily substance in the condom – where does it come from? Is the oil in the condom the same as fluids that will come out of a woman?
Does that mean when the child reproduces, they will have the oil going into their male sex organ? They do not prefer that but instead they prefer to draw the fluids that emanate from the women’s sexual organs which is healthy.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Can
you be precise?
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Places where sex workers made
reference to are brothels and they are even licenced so that they look after the health of their clients. That is how we had sex workers and this is what we are now doing. I understand that they are also advocating for the distribution of condoms in prisons. If these condoms are distributed in jails, are we not then promoting gays? I will give an example of a motor vehicle. If a person was to drink petrol, they will then become drunk and if the petrol were to come out through the exhaust, that person will die. What are these condoms used for? Once they are used for gay sex, that person will die...
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: On a point of order Mr. President.
Maybe there is another motion I do not know about but the report he is debating is of the Committee on HIV/AIDS visiting tertiary institutions because there is research that was done that HIV/AIDS prevalence is now high between the age groups of 15 to 24. As a Committee, we decided to visit tertiary institutions because this is where...
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
Order. Please give us your point of order. Do not debate again.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: He is talking about things that are not in the report.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
Thank you. Hon. Sen. Machingaifa, you are alleged to have strayed from the debate.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. I wanted us to enlighten one another. Nevertheless, since we are denying ourselves the opportunity to enlighten each other, I rest my case. I was of the view that when the Committee conducted these field visits, they were not through. They found those that were saying they suffer from poverty and those that have accepted that they are HIV positive and are now on drugs. Those that have defaulted from receiving their medication, how many are they and how many are still alive? If you go back, people now appreciate that – in previous years many people had very thin hair because of HIV but now people will remain health and do not have thin hair because they have accepted that there is HIV/AIDS.
We also want to find out the issue of stigmatisation…
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: You are saying people are
refusing to be enlightened but we would want people to be enlightened on new information, but the motion should come up differently. We are talking about children that are in institutions of higher learning. Give us your contribution on that issue.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Students in institutions of
higher learning should help us by being disciplined. They should not have ‘blessers’ because of poverty. They should not be given tuition in return for sex. In the past, there were hostels and there was food for these learners. Even if tuition was to be increased, no learner would destroy their buildings. The Ministry should have manageable figures of students at these institutions of higher learning. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: I think you now know that
when Hon. Sen. Machingaifa is debating, he has a lot of brains and a lot of issues; some of them will not go on the touchline.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President. This is an important motion. I would like to thank the Committee that went to these institutions and came up with this report that is being debated.
This is a practical case which affects the present and the future. It affects the legislators because of their position in society. As the institution responsible for making laws, we are going to be insulted by our grandchildren when they discover that we were the crop of legislators that encouraged such misbehavior. I believe that we should come up with a solution and we should not act as the proverbial jumping from the frying pan into the fire, or adding fuel to the fire.
There is a lot of poverty and girl children at tertiary institutions are suffering. We are far from reaching a solution in as far as they are concerned. These children value a temporary measure instead of coming up with a permanent solution. They forget the major reasons they went to these institutions of higher learning as a result of peer pressure. There is need for assistance from parents. This is why in the old African society we had rules where children were never said to be old until any age. A child would remain a child and would be scolded by the parents even if they were married and had their own children until their parents died. When we said 18 years is the age of majority and the child is free to do what they want, we shot ourselves in the foot. By accepting bad influence, these children end up having bad morals which are not in line with their family values and culture. In the end, the culture and behaviour is eroded.
There is an Hon. Member who said that if it was possible, grants would be reinstated. I believe that the fault lies with the Government. If our Government was serious, some of these problems would be dealt with. I am happy that Government has reduced the number of road blocks. This is a good move because a plethora of road blocks was now costing the country, a lot of tourists were no longer coming to this country. For example, the money that is saved in one sector can be given to the Ministry of Health. The Ministry of Finance should not find it difficult in taking care of these children at tertiary institutions. Our children are our feature. The Ministry of Health should be empowered to look into the plight of these children and ensure that they are given health; follow up on them and give them life surviving skills.
Some children are sent to university by parents who will have sold groundnuts and second hand bales of clothes. We should treat this motion with the seriousness it deserves in the sense that parents suffer for the investment of their children. We may talk about other investments such as insurance or funeral policies and so forth; there is no better investment than the investment in human child – that is my own child. My child is my future. If I was able to send my child to the university from selling groundnuts and avocado pears, the Government should also play its part. By sending my child to the university, I am assisting the country because the child becomes a national investment should he or she survive because the institutions of higher learning are now a death trap to the girl child?
Government should set its priorities right with regards the budget so that money can be used on sensitive issues such as saving lives of the girl children who are at institutions of higher learning who are our future leaders. I believe that certain funds which are being allocated to certain sectors should be given to the girl child. The money that is being saved from the road blocks should be given to the Ministry of Finance and Ministry of Health and Child Care to ensure that our children live well.
There is going to be a huge saving on the reduced road blocks.
Our institutions of higher learning are important because they are our children’s future. They affect the lives of our children. As the elderly or the so called ‘blessers’ should strongly deny this title. We should theoretically and practically refuse that title. It is not pleasing. It is an insult to God to say ‘blesser’. The so called ‘blessers’ should be arrested because first and foremost they are taking advantage of the poor girl child but would never countenance such an incident happening to their own children. Why then should that behaviour which you do not want to be exihibited on your child be exhibited on other children?
The reasoning capacity of a girl child at a university is not the same as that of a grown up businessman who receives $5 000-$10 000 in earnings per day from their business. If approached by such a person, nine out of ten girl children succumb to such temptations. The end result is that it will come and hound the Government. This misdemeanour should be stopped at all cost. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHISUNGA: I would like to thank the Hon. Sen. Timveos for the report she tabled in this House. I am a member of that Committee on HIV/AIDS. I would like to add my voice by saying that the objective of going to the tertiary institutions was to find the evidence that tallies or supports the reports that were given by the National Aids Council which stated that these are the prevailing conditions in our institutions of higher learning.
Our Government, through the Minister of Health and Child Care and other organisations, is at war on the prevention of HIV/AIDS. We had to go there because of such things. What our Committee saw we tabled the findings in Parliament so that the House can assist us in coming up with solutions.
We want this House to come up with policies that help us to achieve the goal that there will be no HIV/AIDS by 2030. There are several interventions that we were scrutinising to see how effective they are, such as the use of condoms, male circumcision, PMTC and such other things, to find out if they are effective. We also wanted to observe the so called children that we are referring to as children in schools. They are no longer children, they are now adults. This is what the authorities of those schools said.
So, the purpose of our report is to get assistance, to look at ways and means for us to fight and conquer this HIV/AIDS pandemic so that we have an AIDS free country which will help our country develop. Mothers believe when they say that if you educate your daughter, you will have developed the country. So, our objective is to look at ways to eradicate HIV/AIDS.
We saw that in the 1980s when condoms were being used, people believed that in them was oil that caused diseases or sickness. I believe that the Hon. Minister Parirenyatwa, should come up with awareness programmes so that they understand these interventions that are being made to eradicate HIV/AIDS. People are dying for want of knowledge. This is an all out war. We may fail to achieve our victory by 2030 of eradicating HIV/AIDS. Some of the behaviour by these children at higher institutions is caused by poverty and the fact that they are now mature adults who feel that they cannot go for a week without being sexually active. Some of these youths have wives and husbands at home when they go to these universities. The country should be developed by coming up with solutions that ensure that our future is guaranteed in terms of their health. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMUVRI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 21st June, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA), the Senate adjourned at Six
Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 22nd June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
VISITORS IN THE SENATE GALLERY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to
acknowledge the presence in the President of the Senate’s Gallery, of the delegation from Swaziland, Hon. Titus Thwala, leader of the delegation, Hon. Sikhumbuzo Dlamini and Mr. Mpendulo Ngcamphalala. You are most welcome – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -
OFFICIAL OPENING OF BATANAI PRIMARY SCHOOL
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
Hon. Members from Manicaland Province that the Official Opening of
Batanai Primary School in Headlands Constituency, Manicaland Province which was scheduled for the 30th June, 2017 has been brought forward to 29th June, 2017 at 1000 hours.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. May the Hon. Minister enlighten us on Government policy as regards the issue of roadblocks? We read in the press that we are only going to have 40, what about the prevalence of the robberies in this country? How are you going to contain that? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFARS (HON.
MGUNI): We have been receiving a lot of complaints on too many roadblocks around the country where people were alleging that it is disturbing tourism. Some people were saying roadblocks are delaying school children to get to schools. Some came late to work saying they were delayed by these road blocks. So, in Cabinet, the issue of roadblocks was discussed vividly and we decided to scale them down in the form that I would like to explain now. We would like to have four standard roadblocks per province. What is a standard road block? It is a roadblock that could be mounted permanently with drums, boom gates, warning lights to ensure that there is police ahead.
However, according to the Commissioner General’s powers, he may shift them depending on what he thinks and where they should be strategically mounted but we would like to monitor a maximum of four standard roadblocks per province. We have got what we call spot checks, whereby police patrol an area and come up with a conclusion that, that area is a hot spot. When we call an area a hot spot, it is an area where crimes and accidents usually happen. Then the Commissioner General has powers to plan when to put those spot checks but spot checks are not permanent. Spot checks can last for thirty minutes or six hours. It is varying because police is security, so no one should predict that by now they are there. Then we have got highway patrols, depending on the vehicles available, they will be patrolling the highway.
We are scaling down roadblocks to that number because we have done our work on the integration side, whereby VID, ZINARA, et cetera we must integrate. Hon. Minister Chombo will be making a groundbreaking ceremony at a place which we call Electronic Traffic Management System. Most of the things will be electronically managed. Even the police at the roadblocks will not carry books, it is a gadget similar to a cellphone where if the driver does not put a belt, you now punch the code and that receipt is also printed in the traffic management system centre. This means that we are trying to eradicate corruption from our own police officers so that everything is transparent and accountable. Everybody will see a change, we want the easy ways of doing business. We want traffic flow; a lot of people now think that police is hindering the easy ways of doing business in Zimbabwe.
Thank you Madam President.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Madam President, what the Hon.
Minister is saying is that police officers are supposed to be in hiding. Is that what they doing, for example where there are flushing lights that show that there are police ahead. However, the flushing lights are always so faint. Is it because police officers are hiding or it is because you did not notice that the police officer could be in danger as well as the motorist? I do not know why they are like that. I have been to South Africa and their signals are clear as compared to ours. The system here is poor. I have heard that there are traffic police who died due to this problem. What is lacking on this within your Ministry?
HON. MGUNI: Most of our gadgets that we are using at the moment like those blue lights are imported from South Africa. However, probably it could be the maintenance and systems or they supply us with lights that are not of high quality as she is comparing to other countries, but we have to improve on our lighting systems because the four standard road blocks I talked about have to be quite visible.
These ones are not hidden. I have even said that they should carry the banners showing ‘Police Ahead’ after maybe 800 metres, ‘Police Ahead’
200 metres, ‘Police Ahead’ 80 metres. Those things must be there on a standard road block. It will be clear and the people will know that there is a road block before they reach there. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. When I was coming from Holiday Inn yesterday, I saw three police bikes and they had spikes by the robots. They wanted to throw them at a commuter omnibus that was infront of us and we nearly had an accident. We nearly rammed into that commuter omnibus and they left. What is the policy on these spikes?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): A spike, even if you go to other countries, whether it is South Africa or Swaziland – they are far advanced anyway. When you approach a national key point which is a place with high security, the spikes are used to control traffic that you cannot drive through unless that spike is removed by the form of mechanical intervention where you swipe your card or by a human being after you comply with everything that is needed.
A spike cannot be thrown into a moving vehicle according to the law. It must be laid down on the ground to control the vehicle to stop. Now, what happens in South Africa – I want to copy the South African style. There is an electronic system that we will introduce when we are integrated; when a vehicle passes on top of a spike, it detects a red light showing that, that vehicle may not have paid its licence or it is known in South Africa. Then those who are about 400 meters will be telephoned to inform them about this vehicle. That is when the driver will see a spike on the ground when he is approaching.
The dispute that I have come across in Zimbabwe most of the times is that – I am not sure whether the tax driver refuses to stop and then police run to throw the spike. If it is like that, we issued a statement that it is illegal to throw a spike on a moving vehicle. We said this is constituting three years imprisonment of a police officer. I think everyone saw it. It was there in the Herald and in the Chronicle because we wanted to clarify. If it is laid on the road and the driver decides to drive on top of it, that driver is reckless. He needs to be charged because he is carrying about 17 people in his vehicle and he does not care to use flat tyres. He continues running on top of the spike. That is where it is Madam President. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. It was mentioned that heavy vehicles should not travel after 6 p.m. in Zimbabwe but they still continue to move on the roads after 6 p.m. What do you say about it? What is the policy on heavy haulage on travelling during the night?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): My Ministry may not be the custodian of that regulation but we are there to enforce. If the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development decides to implement that to protect carnages and horrific accidents that are happening on the roads, the police will wait to enforce.
Remember, we are not the ones who also put the regulation which says that vehicles must have licences but police are just enforcing to see that the vehicle has pays a licence. I heard that the trucks that have been stopped are fuel trucks and not every truck because others must move. The fuel trucks have been stopped because of that horrific accident that happened in Ngundu.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: My question goes to the Minister of Home Affairs. First of all, I want to thank you about the reduction of police on the road. Now that you are going to have a very huge surplus of our police officers, how do you intend to utilise them especially those from the roads?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): This question has been coming up from all the studios and so forth. We do not have a surplus. We have never employed any more new officers. We said the spot checks – the Commissioner General will determine where they have to go and check. There will be high-way patrols. They have actually applied to purchase more vehicles so that the police are on the high-way patrol. The police cannot be short of having something to do; they have got a lot to do especially on the roads.
The statistics of Zimbabwe where people die most is not in hospitals. It is on the roads and so the police have profiled that we need to stop corruption on the roads, we need to stop these carnages. I thank you.
*HON. MAWIRE: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Minister, we are hearing stories about bogus police roadblocks that have become a challenge in Zimbabwe. How then are we supposed to know that this is a standard roadblock and this one is a bogus roadblock? How can we tell the difference? May you assist us on that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you very much Madam President. That is a much debated question at the moment. However, the integration system that I promise will be in place within a month, it is electronic, whereby a bogus police officer will never get a gadget to be linked into the server of that system. Therefore clearly, everyone will see that this is a bogus roadblock because they will try to use books and manual things yet, it is no longer manual because they cannot get hold of those things and they are not linked. They are not dispatched from the integrated system. So, we are trying to eradicate that. That is why we brought this new system so that there is nothing like that which happens. We have got to seriously enforce against the abuse of police uniforms which a former member will put on and try and go and pose as a police officer on duty.
That one we are very strict on.
I think you read from the newspaper today that we caught a high ranking member of the police force who was trying to manufacture those books to give out receipts. So, we are on it, we are dealing with that. We actually want to finalise all those cases and arrest and imprison them. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President. Let me just divert to the Minister of Health and Child Care. We hear there is a shortage of the birth control pill that is called Marvell. What plans do you have because a lot of women are going to the clinics and that pill is not found? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA): Thank you very much Madam President
and I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for her question. It is true that some contraceptive tablets, from time to time, we have shortages and that worries us because women get used to a particular type of tablet and it is good that that continuity is there.
In this particular case, we are in the process of making sure that the particular pill that she is talking about is made available as soon as possible because it is important that all the rural areas get the same type of tablet that is received here because a lot of our drugs come as donations and we are very careful that we have some continuity so that a woman does not jump from one tablet to another. That is why sometimes you get some of these shortages. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you very much Madam
President. My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. It is now two years after the disappearance of Itai Dzamara. We would like to get an update of how far the search has gone. Secondly, how much time is taken for a person to be declared dead if he has been reported missing?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President. The police and Dzamara’s
family formed a committee that is still working on the case. So, we asked them to report, every month, how far they are and they are giving us reports and leads. However, there have been leads coming in and the police would go and investigate and find out that it is not fruitful.
To declare that a person is dead, it is about the police submitting a report with the family, agreeing with the family, that now we have exhausted all means to investigate and what should we do; should we declare the person dead? We cannot, as police, just close a case and say the person is dead, because the person comes from a family. It needs to be agreed with the family to do the correct declaration. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. What plans have you put in place to ensure that those that would have died as a result of road traffic accidents or those that would have been injured will not have their properties stolen by those that come to assist them. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President. When an accident occurs, the nearest police should go there to help or react. Therefore, we will be knowing who went there.
I just want to give you an example of a pastor and his wife who had an accident while driving towards Bulawayo from Harare. Luckily when he left Harare someone saw that in his wallet there was US$500. We could trace the police officers that attended the scene because the next of kin from Bulawayo, who went there to receive the body, saw that the wallet was empty, but the people from here saw that he left with
US$500. So, we had to track them because we know who went there.
So, we have got a strong following system that we know who attended the scene because there is radio communication when there is an accident. That happens so that we can see who read the communication, who disseminated the information to who. We will be knowing the people and all those police. It is unfortunate that one of them passed away while he was to go to court. He was taken to court and on his way to court, he passed away. It is also a lesson that once you do something bad, because we are from a society that is full of, even not police – Madam President, can I explain a little bit that it is not only police who may arrive at the scene of accident first, also some pedestrians or some motorists can arrive before the police and usually the society that we have now, can search a dead person and take his belongings. But it is a lesson that if you do it sometimes God is looking at you and you will die like this policeman who we had arrested.
Already we had investigated and said go to court, he passed away. That is what happened but we have got a thorough system that can track who attended the scene. Thank you Madam President.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: My question is directed to the
Minister of Health and Child Care. Hon. Minister, why is it that when a child is ill because of malnourishment, the Government hospitals do not attend to such children. At the end of the day, such children will be transferred to private hospitals. We visited some institutions and we realised that this is what is happening on the ground.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for that very intriguing question. When children come to the hospitals and they are malnourished, especially in our Government institutions, they are weighed properly, assessed using the circumference of the arm, taken the height and they are pegged to see what degree of malnutrition they may have. They do all this to find whether it is malnutrition in terms of kwashiorkor or it is just severe malnutrition. Certainly, at Harare and Mpilo Hospitals, there is a programme to nourish those children; to give them nourishment through enhanced feeding over time and also to find out why they are malnourished. Usually it is because of poverty.
Usually, it is because of poverty that children are not fed well and they are fed with the wrong food, it may be a lot of food but wrong food. So, you will find their skins begin to peel off and have big tummies but not those healthy tummies. Some people may mistake that for being a healthy child when in fact it is a malnourished and kwashiorkor child.
In our institutions we assist and ensure they are put into those nutrition villages and fed properly and look at the socio-economic circumstances surrounding that particular child. In the private sector, usually they refer back to us. They do not actually take much cognisance; they refer back to the public sector. We believe that some of the private institutions should also take charge and also have those nutrition villages to cater for those people. Usually those who go to the private sectors are people who can afford. Children malnourishment is not really usually in the private sector but we find it more in the public sector.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: What I am talking about happens in
Government hospitals. For example, in Murehwa when we went there they said they do not have treatment. Therefore, they transfer those children to private mission hospitals because they do not have any assistance to those children. So, what happens with such cases when there is a nutritionist nearby? The Government hospitals do not have the capacity to take care of these children and attend to them. Why do these Government hospitals refer these children to mission hospitals? Why is it not the other way round?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I think that particular question if
it pertains to Murehwa hospital, we have to go and investigate and find out why they are referring to the mission institutions.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. Minister, what are the key critical issues in the proposed Public Health Bill to enhance the Public Health Act. What is delaying the Ministry to bring the Bill to Parliament?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chimhini for those two questions. First of all the
Public Health Bill is an important Bill. The last Act of the Public Health Act was written in 1924, so we have been working flat out to make sure that it is now up to date in terms of the relevance to the situations that are here now. Particularly, if you look at the new conditions, the new diseases, the new types of management that is needed, the decentralisation process that we have done in our institutions, the management process are key also.
The Public Health Act or Bill that is now going to be coming to
Parliament – it is good, I do not know whether you saw me bringing it. It is already here. It took long because it really had to have very wide consultations. After that it then went to the Attorney General’s Office where it took some time for the legal people to make sure that the Public Health Act, when it becomes an Act does not impinge on other laws and then becomes a tussle. It is a big document, so they had to be very thorough, very detailed and it took longer than most Bills take. Some
Bills take a shorter time, this one took a longer time because of consultations and the legalities involved because the Public Health Act will supersede a lot of other Acts.
For example, if I invoke the Public Health Act and say Beitbridge town, we want you to clean up the city. I can invoke the Public Health Act, but what it means is that Beitbridge Town Council should now clean up its city by force, if you see what I mean, because I have invoked that particular Act. That sort of invocation impinges on other areas of governance. So, it has to be thorough, that is why it took long.
I am glad that on 14th June, 2017 it came back from the Attorney General’s Office. It is going to Cabinet, next Tuesday and thereafter it comes to Parliament.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. Hon. Minister, may you enlighten us on the issue regards the artisanal miners who are performing their mining in illegal areas such as Chegutu and Gadzema. A lot of people have died. Why are you turning a blind eye to these actions that are taking place? Is what they are doing legal or illegal? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Madam
President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The part that relate to Gadzema is a specific question, I do not know whether the people that are there are doing so on the basis of mining licences. I will have to check and see whether they are properly constituted. If it is the artisanal miners who we know that they mine everywhere and anywhere, this is the point I have made always that we need to have our people follow the legal systems. There are areas that cannot be mined; areas that are close to the roads, hospitals, schools et cetera; those areas are not open to prospecting and pegging. The artisanal miners do not have any boundaries, they just mine anywhere and everywhere and sometimes at their own risk.
Just a few days ago, we lost people in Mazowe, 8 artisanal miners who were mining on concessions which belong to another mine. The mine collapsed and they died in there. This is the danger that every day is lurking over us because we do not know where people are and how they are mining and whether they are following the normal mining methods required in mining engineering.
Madam President, I want to use this opportunity to encourage our people – the artisanal miners as much as possible to try and register themselves so that we can assist them properly in scientific methods of sinking their shafts and mining so that they do not get mines collapsing on them. I also want to take advantage and say there are disused mines which were sealed and closed because the mining resources had been exhausted. Our artisanal miners are sinking sideways and they get into the tunnels and there are pillars – there is a system of mining called ‘the pillar and board system’, that system is where large pillars are used to hold the ceiling. The pillars will have gold and they go there and destroy such pillars, when they destroy such pillars, the roof collapses and they die in there. There is always a danger that they may be badly affected because sometimes when they destroy the pillar, they will not know it would be the only one left to support the ceiling; as a result it will collapse and they die. I urge our people to take care when it comes to disused mines, mines that were abandoned and mines that have stopped operations; they should not go under the ground particularly when those mines are sealed. They should not go underground because the danger is always there. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: Thank you Madam President.
My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. May you please explain to this Senate how many police officers should be manning each roadblock so that the road users may know what a genuine roadblock looks like?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam President, the standard roadblock I described earlier on should have four officers going up. The highway patrols are allowed to stop a vehicle if it is suspicious; there could be two officers in that car or three officers and they can stop a suspicious car. The driver could remain manning the vehicle, so only two officers can walk towards the suspicious vehicle and that is not a roadblock, it is a highway patrol. Spot checks need about three officers upwards where they can stop a vehicle, even speeding vehicles because this is counted under spot check, that is when they have got machinery and they should be three upwards.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President, my
question goes to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural
Development. Please advise whether from a policy perspective you will consider scraping off treacherous sections of tarmac roads in order to replace them with gravel in view of the state of some of the potholes on these tarmac roads until such time when we will be able to retard the roads.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADANHA):
Thank you Madam President, I would like to start by thanking the Hon. Senator for asking a very important question. When it comes to the condition of roads, what we should note is that most of our roads were built during the colonial era and most of them have not been completely rehabilitated since then. It means most of our roads are in bad condition.
Roads are classified; we have earth roads, gravel roads and tarred roads. So, if a road is classified as tarred, what simply needs to be done is to look for funds and rebuild the tarmac. As Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, we are making all efforts to ensure that most of our roads are rehabilitated to their original conditions. To this extend, we have extended an invitation to all private companies and all Zimbabweans to come and partner, be it with any entity responsible for road construction so that we can rebuild roads. Let us all remember that the private sector which makes goods wants their goods to be moved from point A to point B. So, their participation in public-private partnerships is crucial at this moment.
Also we invited private companies to come and partner with us be it through build-operate and transfer schemes so that we can actually rebuild our roads. We will not spend money to scrap the little tarmac which is there and put earth because with an earth road, just see in your constituencies, when you grade your road and two hours later there comes a downpour, the whole road is gone again.
So, our effort and policy now is to actually rehabilitate the roads. We are making every effort through ZINARA, which is mandated to collect funds for road construction so that we can actually fund road constructions, besides the PPPs and BOTs that I have mentioned. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Minister, I want to commend your Ministry, you are one of the Ministries which responds to reports of Portfolio and Thematic Committees. You acted swiftly on the Chitungwiza
Municipality. The Municipality has been employing unqualified people all along in several departments at the expense of service delivery to the residents. Can you update this Senate and the nation at large on the progress made so far by the Pawadyira Commission, whether it is going ahead or not? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you very much Madam President. I want to thank the Hon.
Senator for his question with regards to the progress so far in
Chitungwiza. I want to agree that the contribution by Parliamentary Committees has been very useful in helping us to also look at some of the areas. It helped us as a Ministry and with specific regards to
Chitungwiza. In Chitungwiza, we are working and the Pawadyira Commission is in place. We are also proceeding through the tribunal system to look at the cases that involve all the councillors who we suspended earlier on.
The service delivery issues are still issues that we are grappling with. For a very long time, I want to say to this august House that most of the residents or properties were not captured on the database of the town council to the extent that no rates and no services were also being given to those properties. We are now in the process of capturing them and making sure that they are on the database. Our Physical Planning department has been brought into Chitungwiza to assist the Pawadyira Commission with regards to looking at most of the areas that were pegged or allocated stands. We still have a lot of challenges to try and get Chitungwiza right.
The Commission is also looking at a number of areas and that includes the number of people who were hired. We need to rationalise the staff and also look at whether those people who were hired were coming to work. The town council is almost behind in terms of salaries to the tune of about 13 to 14 months. The salaries have not been paid and service delivery is low. We are grappling with road construction and road rehabilitation with some of the funds coming through from ZINARA but I must admit that we are still a long way to go with regards to getting the situation in Chitungwiza right.
Some of the areas of service delivery like water and so forth, there are some improvements in terms of attending to burst water pipes and sewage challenges but we still have a plethora of challenges because Chitungwiza had grown way beyond the capacity of management to look at. Corruption had become quite endemic in the system and we are trying to deal with all these issues. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement. Minister, you are aware that in our Zimbabwean Constitution, everyone has a right to good living conditions or land.
What about those that were born in farms and were left on these farms. When are they going to be resettled because they are not living peacefully in those farms. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. W. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Madam
President and thank you Hon. Member for such a good question. The issues of workers and their families that were on the farms - in other areas, they were accommodated or allocated the farms but in other areas, they have not been allocated or some of them turned down the offers. Some of them were stubborn and if an A2 piece of land were to be found, they could work as workers of the new land owner but the majority of them were not willing to do that.
Our Ministry’s policy is that, those that have not been allocated land, a list be compiled and those that are problematic, once the land has been identified, some will be resettled. It is not all of us that will be allocated land because we are running out of land but we are certain that some will get some land. Those that are on the land, I urge you to employ such workers. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Minister. I would like to appeal to Hon. Senators not to give a lengthy preamble before you pose your question because we would like as many Senators as possible to ask questions, please.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. Could
I find out from the Minister that, looking at the conditions of living in those settlements, what could be done to alleviate potential time bomb in terms of things like cholera and other serious outbreaks. I know that it may not be directly your question, but it is in your lands.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: That is not your
question.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President.
My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. In our Constitution, we are wayward in terms of the Constitution as provincial councils are concerned; as he comes up with the alignment of the laws to the Constitution that fall under his purview in his Ministry, is he going to assist us the disabled to have representation in the areas such as provincial, metropolitan councils and other bodies. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Through you Madam President, I would want to thank our Senator who asked such a pertinent question regarding the people living with disabilities. He talked about representation on provincial councils and metropolitan councils.
Let me start by saying that we are in the process, through Hon.
Ncube’s Ministry that deals with rural development so that we can sit down. We are trying to come up with a law that is in line with the Constitution of Zimbabwe. Over and above that, it is lawful that all persons, including those that are disabled are part and parcel of the number of persons that live with disabilities in the metropolitan councils. We also want to empower our councils and capacitate them so that we have representation of such people as that could assist the councils as they come up with their own policies. We will be strongly looking in that direction to increase the number of representatives for those with disabilities. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care, Hon. Dr. Parirenyatwa. On paediatrics, access to the state of the art medicine for those suffering from diabetes, just like those suffering from HIV; why is it that they are not entitled to also access free medical treatment?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Madam President, I just wanted him to
repeat the last part of the question.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: This is why I
always beg Hon. Senators to pose your questions instead of giving us a preamble. Could you please repeat your question?
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you. The question is a comparison policy on those diabetic children and those with HIV – the diabetic ones are not getting state of the art medicine free of charge like their counterparts. That is the question.
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Madam President.
We are aware that HIV treatment to all patients, pediatric or adults; whether you are diabetic or in the case of an adult if you a hypertensive, it does not matter as long as you are supposed to get treatment for HIV; you will get it across the board. It does not matter whether you are diabetic or not.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: The question is -
why do you not provide treatment for the diabetic children in the same way you provide treatment for the HIV positive children?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Diabetes is a chronic disease like
hypertension or cancer. Our policy is that for all chronic illnesses, the patient should pay half the price of the normal price for that particular condition. In terms of diabetes, that is the same thing that occurs. For children the question that is being posed is - why do those children who are diabetic also not get free treatment? I want to propose here that it may need a policy change. It sounds quite reasonable for children and I think that there are very few children picked up with diabetes early. So, it should be a policy that we should be able to encompass and look into.
Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: My question goes to the
Minister of Health. What is the policy with regard to patients who are economically disadvantaged and vulnerable? They seek medical attention at a clinic and qualify for free medical service. They are then referred to a district hospital, provincial and end up at a central hospital, say Harare or Mpilo and stay there for three months. When they are discharged, a bill of $4 000 follows and are threatened with these attachments and executions. What is the policy?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira
for that very pertinent question. We want to insist on a referral system. If a patient is referred from a clinic to a district hospital, for example up to a central hospital like has been said, because they have followed that chain, we then say that patient should not be penalised at the central hospital. When they are admitted for a long period, what is then asked from them is usually the hotel payment. Otherwise the drug treatment, diagnosis and consultations are not usually paid for.
We are aware that a lot of our hospitals are charging for medications, x-rays and other procedures of diagnosis. We think that any patient who has been referred – what we have found is that a lot of patients go straight to the central hospitals. Those patients will be penalised for doing that but if you have been referred, you should not be penalised for that. What happens like I have said is that you do get charged for the hotel stay and for some of the investigations that are done, and that becomes the cost that you bear.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Minister, so what do we do because these people approach us? How do we assist them when they come to us and we know that policy?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: When you are approached by
patients who have suffered that, we usually refer back to the hospital to review that and they usually are very helpful. Besides, there is supposed to be a Public Service, Labour and Social Service – there is that fee of social safety nets. They are supposed to pay us. They are supposed to pay the hospitals and that money usually does not come but if a patient who has been treated cannot afford and is indigent, he/she is supposed to have the social safety net from Public Service, Labour and Social
Service. This is where we should follow up for them to pay for that patient and not for the patient to pay because the patient is truly indigent and cannot afford payment.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I move that time for Questions Without
Notice be extended by Ten Minutes.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. What policy are you going to come up with as regards the King Lion Bus which has caused a lot of accidents on the roads?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): Thank you Madam President. I also want to thank the Hon. Senator for asking such an important question. We are all very sorrowful and our hearts bleed when we come across such accidents as happened in Karoi recently and also last month in Mvuma. I think we had two serious accidents. As a Ministry, we are currently consulting with all our stakeholders with the hope that we can tighten up some of our laws, fines and so forth.
However, let me make it very clear that there are many issues that will result or that can cause an accident. I know most people think that because roads have potholes, they are the cause of accidents. Yes, I agree with that but let me make it very clear that the major cause of accidents on our roads is human error. Let us take the Mvuma accident; you find that two drivers side-swiped which is a human error that was not caused by a pothole. Let me take this recent accident of this bus in Karoi; you find that from preliminary investigations, there are indications that it had a tyre burst and it was over-speeding, and that is human error not the condition of the road.
There are three major causes of road accidents. You have the road condition which can also cause accidents but the percentage is very small from the statistics that we have already collected. You also have the mechanical condition of the vehicle which can also cause accidents but from the statistics we have collected on all accidents that have happened on the roads, you find that the percentage is very small. Now, 90% of all accidents that are occurring on our roads are caused by human error. So, we have to tighten up our laws, fines and we are working on that one. We are consulting our stakeholders.
As a Ministry, if somebody is found to have committed an offence, let us say you are over-speeding and you already have two offences, then as a Ministry we have got the authority to withdraw or suspend your licence but is that the solution? The solution will rest in training our drivers …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, may I
please ask the Minister to answer the question because I have four names here who must pose their questions?
HON. ENG. MADANHA: We are working with our stakeholders
to tighten our rules and regulations and I beg you all to respect road rules and regulations. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: I was not answered. I have asked what you are going to do about the King Lion bus because it is causing people’s deaths on the roads.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I beg Hon.
Senators to ask policy questions not just general questions like the one you have asked.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. My question goes to the Minister of Mines. I understand Zimbabwe has uranium as a mineral. Why are you not mining it so that we can make nuclear plant for energy?
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Madam
President and thank you Hon. Senator for that question. We do not know how much uranium we have. There is some exploration work going on to establish the size and the confidence levels of the resource. I would like you to know that until you reach a certain minimum level at the given prices, you may not be able to mine it. Once that is done, we can see whether it is economically viable to mine it or not. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Madam President, I am standing up to thank you for whipping up the Cabinet Ministers. Cabinet Ministers do not want to come to this House. I salute you and I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MABUGU: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. What policy do we have as regards the cost of blood in hospitals? Blood is expensive and other people are losing lives because they cannot afford it. What measures are you going to put in place as regards the Blood Transfusion Services regarding the blood? What measures are in place to assist those with emergencies but with no money so that they get the blood then pay later?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Hon. Senator for that question.
It is true that blood is very expensive in this country. It used to be $135.00 per unit of blood and it has now come down to $120.00 in the private sector. In the Government institution, it is still high and is at $100.00. However, we have gotten certain partners who have assisted us, particularly with pregnant mothers and we now have coupons. We have been distributing those coupons. Any pregnant mother who deserves to have blood to use, we use those coupons for them. That has alleviated a lot of suffering for the pregnant mothers.
There are still a lot of people who suffer road traffic accidents, need blood and those are emergency cases. We have instructed that all emergency cases should be treated as emergency cases and given what they need to have at that time, the cost will be looked at later on. If it is a chronic case, then it is slightly a different matter but for emergencies and pregnant mothers, that is the arrangement that we have. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam President for
giving me the opportunity to ask a question to my son, Hon. Minister Kasukuwere. Minister, may you quickly assist us on the people that were retrenched and pensioned by Chitungwiza Town Council. For the past two years, they have not been receiving their money. Among these people, there are war veterans who have worked for Chitungwiza Town Council and they have reached their pensionable age. If they are going to leave this world before their children and they are not paid, they will leave their children homeless. I implore you to do something about this issue. We do not want them to run the risk of the late Chinx who died before he lived in his house. Give them stands so that their children will have somewhere to stay. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Through you Madam President of the Senate, I would want to thank the Hon. Senator who is my mother. I have understood about the issue. Let me see what we can do about it. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE DISAPPEARANCE OF $15
BILLION
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House whether the Committee to investigate the disappearance of $15 Billion was set up and to further state when its findings would be brought before Parliament.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Mr. President, question number 9 has been misdirected to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development instead of the Minister of Mines and Energy Development.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Hon. Sen. Timveos, you need to
redirect your question in writing to enable the Minister to prepare the response.
PLANS TO SAVE LIVES OWING TO PROHIBITIVE COSTS OF
BLOOD
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House what plans the Ministry has in place to save lives that are frequently lost due to prohibitive costs of blood which requires as much as one hundred and twenty dollars a pint to buy.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): The Ministry of Health and Child Care notes with concern the cost of blood and blood products to patients who need the product.
The Ministry continues to engage the National Blood Service of Zimbabwe to address the challenge. I am glad to report that as a result of this intervention, the price of blood has been reduced from $135 to $100 as of now. We continue to agitate for even lower fees.
In addition to lowering the cost of blood, we have been supporting pregnant mothers with blood as required at the time of delivery by supplying coupons for exchange with blood or blood products from
National Blood Services of Zimbabwe
PROGRESS REPORT ON CHIRAMBA CLINIC
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Health and
Child Care, to give a progress report on Chiramba Clinic in Ward 4,
Chimanimani West which was constructed through CDF Program in 2011 and to clarify why the clinic is still not operational thereby disadvantaging the community which contributed its labour and local material for their benefit.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Construction of the clinic in question was spearheaded by Hon. Ms. Karenyi (MP) in 2011, together with the community and it has the following structures in place: a four roomed staff house, two rooms meant to be the clinic block and a blair toilet.
However, the following are still outstanding; main clinic block, waste zone (Otto way pit, bottle pit and placenta pit), laundry area, 2 x staff houses and water supply. Further to that, the Department of Public Works in Chimanimani has condemned the structures as sub-standard, especially the roofs have been recommended to be removed. It is because of these issues that the clinic is not ready to be opened.
The Ministry encourages participation of local Members of
Parliament and the community in the provision of health infrastructure. Where the community has mobilised resources for the construction of a clinic, it has to liaise with the District Health Executive (DHE) for site identification and approval of the project and co-ordination with the
Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. The facility has to meet the required standards in terms of the designs or drawings and materials to be used. The construction process has to be supervised by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing in conjunction with staff from my Ministry, in particular the District Health Executive. I am reliably informed that for this project, this process was not properly followed, leading to this challenge.
MEASURES TO ASSIST SCHOOL CHILDREN WHO HAVE
DEVELOPED ANEMIA AFTER DONATING BLOOD
- HON. SEN. GOTO asked the Minister of Health and Child Care, to inform the House the measure in place to assist those school children who have developed anemia after donating their blood.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): National Blood Services collects blood from school children periodically to boost the national supply. This programme is done in conjunction with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. The practice is that the donor is screened for anemia before blood is collected. Those with haemoglobin showing anemia or borderline are not allowed to donate. For those who are found suitable for the collection of a pack of blood will not render them anemic at all. Enough time is given before a donor donates again and also protects against the development of anemia.
DISSEMINATION OF HIV/AIDS INFORMATION TO DISABLED
PEOPLE
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Health and
Child Care to explain how the information on HIV/AIDS is
disseminated to disabled people to enable every citizen in the country to be taken abroad.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): The Ministry of Health and Child Care is committed to leaving no one behind in its interventions in the national HIV response as we focus on closing all the taps in prevention and treatment of HIV/AIDS. People with Disabilities (PWDS) are among the vulnerable group for which we have specific programming in view of the challenges they face in accessing services. Herewith some of the measures in place for dissemination of HIV/AIDS information;
- Key materials developed by HIV and Reproductive Health departments has been adapted and produced in Braille, to mention specifically the gender based violence materials, sexual reproductive health package and the HIV treatment literacy manual. These have been sent to the Council for the Blind for further dissemination using their different platforms.
- A sign language dictionary focusing on HIV and reproductive
health was developed in partnership with Disability HIV and AIDS Trust
(DHAT) and other such partners. Health service providers and community representatives were trained on the use of HIV, STIs, TB and Reproductive health sign language. More resources need to be mobilised for such initiatives to be rolled out to scale.
- In response to the need by the visually impaired to access information on condom use, condom instructions were put in Braille in partnership with UNFPA with follow up sensitization meetings on this intervention targeting People living with disabilities in the communities. With more resources, this intervention could be done to scale. I thank you.
HIV/AIDS POLICIES
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Health and
Child Care
- Whether the Ministry consults people living with disabilities when formulating policies on HIV/AIDS and
- Whether people with disabilities are aware of policies on
HIV/AIDS and whether they are user friendly.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Yes, within the Ministry of Health and
Child Care we have a rehabilitation unit that works together with People living with disabilities and sectors working in the disability field.
Policy formulation and implementation is guided by evidence and it is a consultative process. For example, the Ministry of Health and Child Care conducted a national survey on living conditions among persons with disability with a focus on health including HIV/AIDS, STIs, TB and Cancer. This is a process that involved people living with disabilities from planning, data collection and reporting showing significant consultation of people living with disabilities by the Ministry of Health and Child Care. In response to the findings from the survey, we are improving our existing strategies and policies to ensure they are inclusive of people living with disabilities, including infrastructure that is accessible in critical departments like maternity wards, pharmacy and targeted campaigns for people living with disabilities.
Because of constant interaction between the Ministry and organisations of people living with disabilities, including in the processes of formulation of such policies, organisations of people living with disabilities and their membership are aware of the policies and have platforms for communicating them in their constituencies. Through their involvement, people living with disabilities strongly influence these policies to ensure they are friendly. With resources, such policies can also be availed in Braille and other formats.
CERVICAL CANCER SCREENING
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House whether cervical cancer screening was being done in every district and if not, to state when this would be done.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank again Sen. Timveos for her very pertinent question. Mr. President, since 2013 cervical screening services have been rolled out to all the five central hospitals in the country to eight provinces or provincial hospitals and to 63 district hospitals. We have also included the majority of the city health clinics and all mission hospitals. They are offering cervical cancer screening services.
The procedure which is being used for cervical cancer screening is called Visual Inspection with Acetic Acid. I think in the provinces it is just called VIAC. For those women who are VIAC positive with precancerous lesions, they are offered Cryotherapy at the health facility.
I thank you Mr. President.
EDUCATION OF WOMEN ON CANCER
- SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Heath and Child
Care
- Whether the government has any programmes in place to educate women on cancer;
- Whether CD4 count machines are now available in every
district;
- What policies are in place to reduce the spreading of T.B throughout the country on adults and children with T.B;
- Whether there are programmes in place for information dissemination on TB nationwide;
- What the Ministry is doing to reduce incidents of cancer prevalence and also to make drugs affordable to the patients;
- Whether stateless people have access to ARVs and if so, how do they get them since they have no identification particulars;
- To further state how successful PMTCT has been throughout the country and whether male partners have been involved in such programmes.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA):
- The first part of the question has to do with cancer and I think I have already answered that.
- Yes all district districts have CD4 counting machines. CD4 test is needed to assess the level of immune suppression in people living with HIV as we monitor their health while they are on treatment. It should however be noted that as the country has adopted the ‘Treat All’ approach, all people who test positive are supposed to be initiated on antiretroviral treatment regardless of their CD4 count.
- There are a number of policies in place that are meant to reduce the spread of TB both in adults and in children. Stopping the spread of TB disease depends on early detection and treatment initiation.
- Free diagnosis for all presumptive TB cases – Diagnosis is free by microscopy and GeneXpert. Patients who need to have chest x-ray may be asked to pay a fee. We are now digitalising all hospitals radiology services. Currently, 16 hospitals are digitalised. This year we are expecting an additional 20 machines procured with Global Fund support and 12 machines from the Chinese to be commissioned. By 2020 all hospitals should have fully digitalised radiology services which will make this service almost free.
- Free treatment of all TB cases with support – It is mandatory in this country that all presumptive cases found TB positive are put on treatments and should be seen through their treatment period till they finish. Treatment is one of the strategies to stop transmission, but it is important to have full adherence to prevent Drug Resistant TB developing. The country has TB management guidelines which give standard Guidance in treatment and management of TB. This manual standardises the management of TB to avoid mismanagement.
There are also guidelines for the management of Drug Resistant TB which also outlines the way those found with Drug Resistant TB should be treated. Proper management of cases help in having the cases cured and also avoid complications and deaths. Most TB patients are poor and they need support during treatment to enhance adherence.
- Mandatory notification and contact investigation – For all persons found TB positive all persons whom they are living within the same household or work with should be screened for TB and if found positive are put on treatment.
- Information on TB is disseminated through a number of programmes that the Unit has put in place in order to reach the whole country.
- Materials in the form of fliers, posters and pamphlets have been developed and printed distributed to all provinces for further transmission to communities throughout the country.
- The Ministry of Health and Child Care, in partnership with international development partners is mentoring journalists from both the electronic and print media in reporting on TB as a way of spreading correct information on TB as media is key to reaching the people with information.
- Staff from the Ministry and the Unit are on radio and television giving information on TB regularly as part of NAC funded media awareness.
- Recently the Ministry of Health and Child Care forged an alliance with Parliamentarians to spread information on TB in their constituencies.
- It is true. This is a good question because other countries around us are denying people with no state medication. In our particular case, stateless people have access to ARVs and other HIV services like anyone else, despite them not having identification particulars. In our efforts to reach out to such stateless people, we identify them in hard to reach areas, displaced communities, farm resettlements and other targeted areas needing HIV services and we conduct targeted outreaches, community sensitisations and dialogue days and campaigns. Those who can go to health care facilities, HIV services, including treatment with ARVs are offered to all and for free to all who walk in. We do not require identification particulars for one to access HIV services. Clients are assigned unique registration numbers for purposes of documentation, tracking and reporting to ensure we do not lose them in the continuum of care.
- The Ministry of Health and Child Welfare – our prevention of Mother to Child Transmission Programme (PMTCT) has been very successful. To date it is being offered in 1560 sites which is a 95% coverage from only three sites in 1999. This has seen new cases of HIV infections in children reduced in the last two to three decades. As at end of 2016, mother to child transmission of HIV occurring during pregnancy, labour and delivery or post delivery through breastfeeding rate in Zimbabwe was down to a rate of 5.2% from a high of 18% in 2011 and a peak of almost 30% in the late 1990s. Without any intervention 20% to 45% of children born to HIV infected women become infected themselves.
Our PMTCT programme and other interventions specifically targeting men, encourages male partners to accompany their pregnant women to antenatal care so that the couple can take the HIV test and access their health services together and support each other, whatever the outcome of the result. Health care workers are trained in couples counselling and receive training on how to support couples through the process of disclosure of an HIV positive status.
At the same time, the Ministry of Health and Child Welfare has been training male mobilisers with the support of Padare Male Discussion Forum and traditional leaders such as chiefs and headmen to encourage them to accompany their women for antenatal care (ANC), with some successes, albeit at a much slower pace compared to what we would wish for. It is worrisome that in 2016, only 24% of male partners presented to antenatal care with pregnant women. Such activities have been code named ‘Operation perekedza mimba yako!’ by some creative chiefs in their respective constituencies. Men will continue to be encouraged to take their place in HIV response, both for their own health as well as in support of women and children.
NEW START CENTRE IN ZVISHAVANE HIV/AIDS POLICIES
- SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain why Zvishavane and the surrounding districts do not have a New Start Centre.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): The Ministry of Health and Child Welfare remains committed to make HIV testing and counselling services easily available, accessible and affordable to the public. HIV Testing Services (HTS) are available both within the public, NGOs and private sectors through static facilities and outreach services. The Ministry also provides HTS services through partners like PSI, PSZ and other NGOs that provide counselling and testing services.
The New Start HIV Testing and Counselling Services are provided by PSI, a partner of the Ministry of Health and Child Care and these services are provided from 12 stand alone sites throughout the country. These sites were reduced from an initial 26 in 1999 to 12 in 2005 due to funding constraints. It is important to note that New Start HIV Testing
Services complement Ministry efforts to make these services accessible.
The static New Start sites then provide mobile outreach services to surrounding areas and therefore, the areas around Zvishavane should receive mobile testing services through the PSI New Start static site in
Gweru.
However, Ministry also has decentralised HIV Testing and Counselling to all 1500 primary clinics in the country to provider initiated HIV Testing and Counselling (PITC). With this PITC within the Ministry public health facilities and New Start mobile outreaches areas around Zvishavane should be covered adequately. Thank you.
NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING AT TONGOGARA REFUGEE
CAMP
- HON. SEN. TIMVEOS asked the Minister for Home Affairs to state the number of people living at Tongogara Refugee Camp and to inform the House whether their children are given primary documents.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Mr. President. The department of the Registrar
General in collaboration with the Minister of Public Service and Social Welfare carry out yearly static registrations when need arises, to give the children of those refugees primary documents.
The number of birth certificates that were issued to the children of refugees at the said camp from 2015 up to now is 263. The breakdown is as follows;
CHILDREN BORN TO REFUGEES: REGISTRATION
STATISTICS AT TONGOGARA CAMP; ACCORDING TO
THEIR NATIONALITIES AND GENDER FROM JANUARY 2015
TO 14 JUNE 2017
DATE | DRC | RWANDA | BURUNDI | ETHIOPIA | SOMALIA | ERITREA | TOTAL | |||||||
M | F | M | F | M | F | M | F | M | F | M | F | M | F | |
2015 | 80 | 95 | 5 | 9 | 6 | 16 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 92 | 123 | |||
2016 | 9 | 9 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 16 | 15 | ||||
2017 | 6 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 9 | 8 | ||||||
TOTAL | 95 | 107 | 8 | 14 | 11 | 22 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 117 | 146 | |
GRAND
TOTAL |
263 |
ZIMBABWEAN CITIZENSHIP
- HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House why persons who have attained citizen status and apply to change from alien to full Zimbabwean citizenship are required to pay exorbitant and unaffordable amounts for identification documents.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Sibanda for the important question. Persons applying to change their identification documents from alien to citizenship status are made to pay a statutory fee of $40.00. This is in terms of Statutory Instrument 140 of 2009, National Registration Amendment Regulations, 2009 (No. 17). The fee is not exorbitant as people think. It is in our view reasonable because the first issue is non-chargeable, which means is free.
However, the fee can be revised if need be to make the documents affordable, through the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development, who are the statutory fees originators, especially during their budget presentation. This is when we must catch it up and query it if it is too high. I thank you Mr. President.
PROGRESS MADE ON EXPLORATIONS BY MONAF AND APEX
COAL MINING COMPANIES
- HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to update the House on the progress made by Monaf and Apex Coal Mining Companies in Lubu and Lasulu, Binga, respectively, which were conducting explorations in the previous five years and are no longer seen on the ground doing such work.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr.
President. I would like to thank the Senator for that question. Monaf Investment Private Limited was issued with Special Grant, SG 4686, covering 19 236 hectares, in March, 2010 for a period of three years.
The Special Grant is known as the Lubu Coalfields situated 60 km due
South of the town of Binga in Matabeleland North.
Over this tenure, an exploration programme was started right at the granting of the Special Grant. Badger Mining was engaged to design and manage an exploration programme, subsequent to the granting of the Special Grant. The initial phase of exploration was awarded to African Mining and Exploration Limited (AMEX), who drilled 29 boreholes between 4th October, 2010 and 20th December, 2010.
The subsequent phases of exploration were again awarded to AMEX and include drilling of an additional 89 boreholes. Drilling started on 2nd February, 2011 and concluded on 12th October, 2011.
There were other activities that were carried out, such as:
- Environmental Impact Assessment Report complying with the Environmental Management Act [Chapter 20:27].
- Identification of historical data and compilation of a desktop study.
- Construction of a field camp for the project staff
- Mobilisation of different contractors, equipment and technical
staff. Beaconing of the area was also completed.
- Geophysical down-hole wire- line logging of the drilled holes was
- Approximately an analysis of more than 500 samples was done and an expenditure of $4 135 000 was expended on the project.
In order to facilitate the exploration, the company also acquired a property in the town of Binga, 60 km to the North of the project area. This property was equipped as an exploration base and all the field activity, logging of core and sampling of core was managed from this base camp.
In addition, the access road into and across the project areas was upgraded to reduce the travel and supply times to and from the exploration activity area. A fuel depot was established at the Northern edge of the project area.
When the first tenure expired in 2013, the company then applied for an extension of the Special Grant which was granted for a period of two years. This started from 8th January, 2016 to 7th January, 2018
During the almost three years of waiting before the renewal, the camp was dismantled, workers were disengaged, access roads were destroyed by rain and there was no maintenance. What they are doing now is to re-mobilise funding in order to start the activities. We hope that re-mobilisation exercise will be completed soon and it will enable them to continue with the exploration programme.
APPEX PETROLEUM PRIVATE LIMITED SG 4949 and 4950
Appex Petroleum was granted Special Grant 4949 and 4950 and this is 70 km South-East of Binga, covering 2 000 hectares. During this tenure, an exploration programme was started which included Phase 1 exploration drilling, termed twin holes, which was aimed at ascertaining confidence in the historical data from the Shell Coal Company and nine diamond drill holes were completed.
Phase two exploration drilling had planned 30 diamond drill holes but then completed 23 diamond drill holes on a grid roughly 1 km by 1 km, meant for resource and quality data determination. The tenure expired in 2013 and the company applied for an extension of the Special Grant, which was granted for another two years, starting from 8th January, 2016 to 7th January, 2018. We hope that this will enable them to do their work. What they have been doing is simply to review historical data. That is it in terms of Lubu, part of it is really reviewing historical data.
HON. SEN. CHIEF SIANSALI: Hon. Minister, do you realise
that from the time you extended their permit up to now, they have done nothing and the permits will be expiring in January, 2018.
HON. W. CHIDHAKWA: The law says that we must give them
six months and renewable in another six months and then look at the activity that is taking place on the ground. If that does not happen, the Government can in fact withdraw the exploration grant that would have been given to them. I do not know whether they are in their first six months or in their second six months. I am aware that once it reaches 12 months with no activity on the ground, we should in fact withdraw the special grant and enable somebody else to do the exploration.
WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
STATISTICS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITES WHO BENEFITED
FROM RESIDENTIAL STAND SCHEME
- HON. SEN. SHIRI asked the Minister of Local Government,
Public Works and National Housing to give statistics of person with disabilities who have benefited from residential stands scheme.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Madam President, let me start by thanking the Hon. Member for asking the question. However, let me inform this august House that disabled persons in Zimbabwe lack access to secure decent housing. The Government of Zimbabwe recognises housing as a basic human right and need, and this right based approach fosters, among others zero tolerance to any form of discrimination as stipulated in the National Housing Policy.
Local authorities also stand guided by the National Housing Policy dictates which prioritises all vulnerable groups including people with disabilities and as such a quota is reserved for that.
Persons with disabilities are afforded the opportunity to join any scheme that will be running at any given time. However, statistics of beneficiaries of stands that the Hon. Senator is requesting for cannot be produced at this juncture as the Ministry is still in the process of registering prospective beneficiaries for the uptake of stands.
Madam President, let me inform this august House that we have been accommodating persons with disabilities in flats constructed by the Ministry. Special attention is placed on the choice of floors taking into consideration the nature of the disability and some of the flats have been built with a ram. What I assure the House is that once the statistics are ready, I shall provide the House with the same. I thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA) in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA) the Senate adjourned
at Twenty Two Minutes past Four O’clock p.m. until 11th July, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday 13th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
REGISTRATION FOR ICT TRAINING
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I wish to advise all Members of the Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary Caucus who have not yet been trained in Information, Communication Technology (ICT), to register with Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary secretariat office by Thursday, 15th June, 2017. I really would urge that you do that because it is for your own good. Once you gain that knowledge, you can google on your own and do a lot of research. So, I urge those who have not registered for this course to please do so.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Thank you Madam President. I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NON-ESTABLISHMENT
OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move the motion standing in my
name that this House takes note of the First Report of the Thematic
Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of the Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts.
HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: I second.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: 1. 0 INTRODUCTION
In 2014, the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and
Empowerment enquired into the operations of the Community Share
Ownership Trusts (CSOTs) and Employee Share Ownership Schemes (ESOS) in order to assess the progress made towards the implementation of these schemes in accordance with the requirements of the indigenisation law. It is during this enquiry that the Committee noted with concern the non-establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts, areas that are endowed with natural resources. It is against this background that the Committee resolved to investigate into the issues surrounding the non-establishment of the CSOTs) in these districts. This report is a summary of the
Committee’s findings, observations and recommendations on the same.
2.0 OBJECTIVES
The objectives of the enquiry were:
2.1 To appreciate the mining activities in Mudzi and Mutoko
districts;
2.2 To ascertain how communities are benefiting from the mining activities in the two districts as per the requirements of the indigenisation laws;
2.3 To appreciate challenges that may be hindering the establishment and implementation of the Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts.
2.4 To recommend strategies that may enhance the successful achievement of indigenisation and empowerment.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee received oral evidence, written submissions and conducted fact finding visits to some mining sites in Mudzi and Mutoko
districts.
3.1 Oral Evidence Sessions
3.1.1 Mr. P. Sigauke, the Chief Executive Officer of Mutoko Rural District Council appeared before the Committee on the 19th of March, 2015 to brief the Committee on the mining activities in Mutoko district and the establishment of the CSOT.
3.1.2 Mr. Kutamahufa, the District Administrator appeared before the Committee on the 11th of June, 2015 to also brief the Committee on the mining activities in Mudzi district and the establishment of the
CSOT.
3.1.3 The Deputy Minister of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic
Empowerment, Hon. Tongofa appeared before the Committee on the 18th of June 2015 to explain the progress made towards the launch of Mudzi and Mutoko CSOTs.
3.1.4 The Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, Professor Gudyanga, briefed the Committee on mining activities in Mudzi and Mutoko districts on the 25th of June, 2015.
3.1.5 The Provincial Minister of Mashonaland East, Retired
Brigadier General Ambrose Mutinhiri, appeared before the Committee to brief the Committee on the endeavours that his office had undertaken to engage mining companies in Mudzi and Mutoko districts on issues relating to the establishment of Community Share Ownership Trusts.
3.1.6 In addition, the Committee received written submissions from the witnesses that appeared before it to give oral evidence on circumstances surrounding the non-establishment of the Community
Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts.
3.2 Fact Finding Visits
The Committee finally undertook fact finding visits to Natural Stone
Export Company in Mutoko district and Kilwright Mining Company in Mudzi district from 12 to 13 May, 2016 and held meetings with Mutoko and Mudzi Rural District Councils.
4.0 COMMITTEE FINDINGS
4.1 Mining Activities in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts
4.1.1 The commonly panned minerals in Mudzi district are gold, manganese, tantalite and black granite. Illegal gold mining is rampant in Makaha ward where the local communities and other external investors are extracting this mineral without proper documentation. Black Granite quarrying is the main mining activity in Mutoko district.
4.1.2 According to the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, Mudzi district has 113 registered gold locations while Mutoko has 89. There are eight registered black granite mining locations in Mudzi district while 25 are in Mutoko district.
Mudzi has nine industrial minerals mining locations and Mutoko has 23. The Permanent Secretary further stated that these mines are current but not necessarily active.
4.1.3. The Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development also indicated that most mines were being forfeited due to the following reasons:
- High charges on levies—a claim of gold costs US$5.00 per hectare while it is US$10.00 per hectare for base metals such as tantalite.
- Lack of technical knowledge on the business; and
- Lack of capital as many people apply for claims with the hope of receiving donor or investor assistance, and when this does not happen many get forfeited.
4.1.4 During the fact finding visit to Mudzi district, the following emerged as issues of concern:
- Communities are not benefiting from the mining activities in the area as there is no tangible development due to the rampant illegal mining activities. This is further compounded by the noncompliance to the requirements of the indigenisation law by the four qualifying companies that are operating in this district.
- Traditional leaders are not involved in the regulation of mining activities by mine owners, yet they are the custodians of the areas in which mining takes place;
- Strangers in search of minerals in the area have gone to the extent of searching for gold in the graveyards, for example
Rwenyi area;
- Indigenous small scale miners also do not remit funds to RDCs
for development levy;
- The Zimbabwe Republic Police has no vehicles to enable them to effectively monitor illegal mining activities in the area;
- There is land degradation and pollution due to the open pits and gullies that are left unattended;
- Kilwright Mine is not functional but is holding on to its claims.
- Resource constraints do not allow the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to visit the mines in order to verify the status of mining companies; and
- People are moved from their residential area by miners without compensation.
4.1.5 On a positive note, the Committee was informed that plans for the setting up of a legal buying centre for gold in Mudzi district were under way.
4.1.6 In Mutoko, it was revealed that there was no weigh-bridge to verify the tonnage of the black granite. The Rural District Council (RDC) donated land but does not have resources to set up a weigh bridge. Consequently, the RDC relies on the submissions from the
Minerals Marketing Company of Zimbabwe (MMCZ).
4.1.8 The RDC’s only source of income from granite quarrying is through charging a development levy per unit of production as prescribed in the RDC Act. A unit is a thousand tonnes and RDC gets $1.00 as development levy per tonne of production, which is equivalent to the cost of bread. Considering that the lowest selling price per cubic metre is US$430 while the highest price is US$820, the development levy is unacceptably low.
4.1.9 The major activities involved in black granite quarrying include sampling, excavation, stone quality assessment, stone measurement, drilling, blasting, washing, transportation, and finally processing in Harare. Most of these activities can absorb unskilled labour, thereby creating employment opportunities of about 80% of the local people.
4.2 Natural Stone Export Company Mining Operations in
Mutoko District
4.2.1 The Committee toured the Natural Stone Export Company with a view to appreciating its operations and assess its compliance to the requirements of the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act. Accordingly, the Committee toured the cutting and polishing plant as well as where the extraction of the black granite stone was taking place.
4.2.2 During the tour and meetings held with Mr. Muvuro the Mine Manager, the Committee learnt that Natural Stone Export Company was pegged in 1974 and started operating in 1986. The company extracts black granite stone and has some branches in Mutoko, Karambika,
Shamva, Mupfurudzi Game Park and plans to open a new site in Chidenga to mine Kelly Granite.
4.2.3 The Mine Manager also stated that the granite stone is measured by the controllers at the site and MMCZ also measures the granite to verify its weight and endorses the weight.
4.2.4 The Committee was informed that in 2010 Natural Stone Export Company employed 1 200 workers with more than 40 managers, but now it has 179 workers and only two managers. This was attributed to the high costs of doing business in Zimbabwe. The Mine Manager stated that the ease of doing business is better in other countries compared to Zimbabwe where too many taxes are levied.
4.2.5 The Mine Manager further informed the Committee that high taxation has resulted in the company not being able to compete at par with other countries in the international market leading to low returns for the company.
4.2.6. On value addition and beneficiation to the granite stone, Mr. Muvuro informed the Committee that the company does the cutting and polishing of the stone to make kitchen tops, tiles and tombstones, but these are for the local market only. The finished products are sent to Harare for sale. The Mine Manager also informed the Committee that there is no legislation in place for the weighing of finished products.
4.2.7 On winding up, Mr. Muvuro told the Committee that whenever the company moves people due to its mining activities, it compensates them.
4.3 Kilwright Mining Company Mining Operations in Mudzi
District
4.3.1 The Committee undertook fact finding visit to Kilwright Mining Company with a view to appreciating its operations and assess its compliance to the requirements of the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act. However, the Committee could not tour the actual mine site as it was a long distance from the offices. Apart from this, the mine site also needed a high terrain vehicle and Members needed to be in appropriate gear to visit the mine. Thus, the Committee held a meeting with Mr.Gerald Mlotshwa who is the mine owner.
4.3.2 During the meeting, Mr. Mlotshwa informed the Committee that he took over the mine from Tantco (Pvt.) Ltd. Company in 2011.
Since then, the mine was under care and maintenance. He further informed the Committee that initially, the mine was run by him and a consortium of foreign investors. The investors were expected to inject US$250 000 in the business, but failed to do so leading to the cancellation of the agreement.
4.3.3 Mr. Mlotshwa stated that a lot of illegal mining activities were taking place at the mine, with about 700 illegal miners in operation. This was brought to the attention of the Ministry of Mines and
Mining Development, and Mr. Mlotshwa. The Zimbabwe Republic
Police moved the illegal miners in 2013.
4.3.4 Mr. Mlotshwa informed the Committee that he had found a potential investor, Kemet Corporation, an American company which is the largest consumer of tantalite in the world. In 2015, Kemet
Corporation signed a deal with Mr. Mlotshwa to buy 4 000 kilograms of tantalite from him per month.
4.3.5 Mr. Mlotshwa further informed the Committee that he had secured funding from banks, which was approved in April 2016. Kemet Corporation funded the mine to the tune of US$300,000 while Mr. Mlotshwa contributed US$200 000. The full operations of the mine were expected to commence in August, 2016.
4.3.6 On compliance to the requirements of the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act; Mr. Mlotshwa assured the Committee that he would comply once mining operations commence.
4.4 Status of Kilwright Mining Company as of the First
Quarter of 2017
4.4.1 The Committee further enquired on the status of the
Kilwright Mining Company from the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development and the following issues brought were to the attention of the Committee by Mr. Tahwa, the Acting Permanent Secretary for the Ministry:
4.4.2 Kilwright Industries (Pvt.) Ltd. were the holders of Benson 44 Claims from 2011, unfortunately, the company failed to pay its annual fees since 2012.
4.4.3 The failure to pay inspection fees resulted in the claims being forfeited on 29 April, 2016.
4.4.4 After the forfeiture, the ground became open for pegging and prospecting, resulting in Lamblight Syndicate applying for the same mining claim and were given title.
4.4.5 Kilwright Industries (Pvt.) Ltd. however, challenged the forfeiture and has since taken the matter to the High Court of Zimbabwe (Case number 6817/16). The Ministry was still awaiting the High Court ruling. Upon being requested by the Committee to give an update concerning the status of his company, Mr. Mlotshwa confirmed this position. Thus, the Committee could not further pursue the matter as it was still before the courts at the time of finalising this report.
4.5 Establishment of the Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko Districts
4.5.1 The Deed of Trust for Mudzi district was produced in 2010.
The CSOT is in place with Chief Chikwizo chairing the Committee.
However, there is no compliance to the requirements of the
Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act from any company operating in this district. Charter Explorations and Vee Tee mine which were the qualifying companies were no longer functional.
4.5.2 Mutoko district was asked to come up with the first CSOT in Zimbabwe in 2010 as a pilot programme. The deed of trust was submitted on the 24th of November 2010. Trust accounts were opened with the Agribank and the Metropolitan Bank on 22nd February, 2013 in anticipation of seed money. Sadly, this remains a pipe dream as the CSOT was never launched.
4.5.3 There are six qualifying businesses in Mutoko district. Of
this number, only three have contributed towards the seed capital of the
CSOT- that is Natural Stone Export Company, Southern Granite and Zimbabwe International Quarries.
4.5.4 The establishment of the Mutoko CSOT was faced with challenges that include reluctance by the mining companies to make financial contributions to this indigenisation programme with the view that royalties that they pay to the Central Government should be channeled back to the affected communities.
4.5.5. Furthermore, the qualifying companies do not honour their pledges as these are not legally enforceable. This has resulted in most companies pledging what they think they can afford and being complacent in complying with what they would have pledged. Mr. Sigauke of Mutoko RDC further stated that in most cases, the companies cite operational challenges as the major factor constraining their ability to honour the pledges. During the fact finding visit and a meeting held at Mutoko Rural District Council, it was revealed that Natural Stone Export Company supports the CSOT and had given US$24 000 for the launch of the CSOT.
4.5.6 The Committee learnt from the Deputy Minister of the
Ministry of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment that the Mudzi and Mutoko CSOTs were to be launched at the provincial level and not at district level as is the case with some established CSOTs. It was further stated that plans for the official launching were at an advanced stage. He, however, could not give the exact date of the official launching, stating that the Ministry wanted to have tangible projects before His Excellency; President R.G Mugabe could officially launch them. The Committee was informed that work was in progress to ensure that communities in these districts benefit from their natural resources. These were the same sentiments that were echoed by the Minister of State for Mashonaland East Province, Hon. Rtd. Brigadier
General Ambrose S. Mutinhiri when he appeared before the Committee. 4.5.7 Another issue of concern is that the Mutoko CSOT does not have a share certificate which enables it to sit on the qualifying company board in order to be abreast with developments and what is accruing to the companies.
4.6 Corporate Social Responsibility
4.6.1 Corporate Social Responsibility initiatives by granite mining companies contribute immensely to the development of communities in Mutoko district. However, there is lack of coordination of programmes and projects and the RDC is not notified. The following are some of the products of the corporate social responsibility given to the communities by these companies:
- A classroom block by Ilford Services Group at Gurure
Secondary School;
- A clinic in ward 5 by Zimbabwe International Quarrying and
CRG Quarries (Pvt.) Limited in ward 5;
- A school block and toilets at Kowo primary School;
- A cattle dipping facility constructed in the Charehwa area;
- Provision of transport to take ill villagers to Mutoko General
Hospital; and
- Donations to national events such as Independence Day celebrations.
4.6.2 During the fact finding visit to the Natural Stone Export Company mining site, it was revealed that this company contributes the following on corporate social responsibility:
- Rehabilitation and construction of four schools in Makochera area;
- A borehole at Makochera Primary School—the Committee had an opportunity to visit this school;
- Supporting the education of the intelligent but economically disadvantaged children in the community, e.g Tryness Mazowe who is now at the University of Zimbabwe;
- Gives 200 litres of diesel to each of the five chiefs in the area per month to help them visit their people;
- The District Administrator is also given fuel as well as giving support during national events.
5.0 COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
Observation
5.1 The Committee noted that the non-establishment of Mudzi Community Share Ownership Trust is a result of the non-functional status of Charter Explorations and Vee Tee mines which were the qualifying companies when the deed of trust was registered.
The Committee also noted that the lack of a legal enforcement instrument for companies to honour their pledges and contribute to seed capital resulted in the non-compliance by the qualifying companies both in Mudzi and Mutoko districts, hence the failure to launch the CSOTs at the provincial level.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 1/2017
The Ministry of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic
Empowerment must immediately review the Indigenisation and
Economic Empowerment Act to include a requirement of a minimum of
25% of the amount pledged by the qualifying companies towards the seed capital of the Community Share Ownership Trusts; and to provide for the application of punitive measures to those who fail to meet the requirements by December, 2017.
Observation
5.2 The Committee noted that there are delays in the processing of legally binding documents that ensures the attainment of the 10% shareholding by Mutoko Community Share Ownership Trust due to the non-availability of the mine directors or shareholders as they are always outside the country.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 2/2017
Ministry of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment must expedite the processing of subscription agreement documents to ensure the attainment of the 10% shareholding by the Community Share Ownership Trusts by giving timelines to the owners on which these documents should be finalized by December, 2017.
Observation
5.3 The Committee noted that lack of a conducive environment for ease of doing business in Zimbabwe is a bottleneck to the economic growth of the country and defeats the implementation of the
Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 3/2017
There is need for a concerted effort in all sectors of the economy to improve ease of doing business by putting in place the requisite internationally acceptable sub-indices of ease of doing business such as rationalising taxes, providing electricity, protecting investors and speedy processing of documents on starting a business among others by
September, 2017.
Observation
5.4 The Committee noted that there is no harmonisation of responsibilities of key institutions (Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development, the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment and local authorities, particularly the RDCs.) in mining and indigenisation sectors.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 4/2017
Government should ensure that there is harmonization of key responsibilities by the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, the Ministry of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment and the RDCs by December, 2017.
Observation
5.5 The Committee noted that the Mines and Minerals Act has no provision of community benefits and participation in mining activities within their communities.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 5/2017
The Mines and Mineral Act should be amended to include a provision for community benefits and participation in mining activities in their areas during the consideration of the current Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill in Parliament.
Observation
5.6 The Committee noted that the levy collected by the RDCs is too low.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 6/2017
The levy should be calculated as an agreed percentage between the RDC and the mining companies, of what is extracted from their areas of jurisdiction by September, 2017.
Observation
5.8 The Committee noted that the Mines and Minerals Act does not provide for compensation to the people who would have been moved from their areas of residence or have their farms taken for the purposes of mining.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 8/2017
The Mines and Minerals Act should be amended to include a provision for compensation to the affected communities when it is finally passed into law in Parliament.
Observation
5.9 The Committee noted that the Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development slept on duty when it delayed to forfeit the block claims of Mr. Mlotshwa resulting in him holding on to them for five (5) years without producing anything that contributed to Government revenue and to the CSOT.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 9/2017
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development must timeously forfeit mining claims upon failure by the owners to make the annual inspection fees payments and open the ground for other potential companies by July, 2017.
Observation
5.10 The Committee noted that small scale miners are not served with formal written notification of forfeiture of their claims by the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development as they are displayed at the provincial offices.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 10/2017
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development should come up with sensitization strategies by September 2017, to conscientise the small scale miners to embrace the practice of visiting the provincial offices regularly to check on the status of their claims.
Observation
5.11 The Committee noted that the absence of the weigh bridges in Mutoko and Mudzi districts made it difficult for the Rural District Councils to know the actual weight of the black granite stone to enable them claim for an upward review of the levies that they charge.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment
Recommendation 11/2017
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development should ensure that weighbridges are built in Mutoko, Mudzi and across the country where mining activities are taking place for appropriate measurement of the minerals that are extracted in mining areas by December, 2017.
Observation
5.12 The Committee noted that there is massive environmental degradation caused by mining in these districts yet communities are not benefiting from theses mining activities. Environmental degradation comes as a result of quarrying, dumping of the large black granite boulders everywhere, pollution and unsustainable clearing of vegetation to pave way for quarry extraction and, to construct roads resulting in serious deforestation.
The Committee also noted that most of the roads are for use by the quarrying companies while villagers benefit only by chance by virtue of being near them and that roads that lead to schools or clinics are not constructed. It was further noted that the use of heavy machinery such as graders, front-end loaders, and heavy trucks, contribute to the rapid deterioration of roads.
Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment Recommendation 12/2017
The Committee therefore, recommends that the Environmental
Management Agency (EMA) ensures that there is immediate removal of the black granite boulders to clear the environment and that it be mandatory for the mining companies to practice reforestation in areas that they would have cleared off vegetation.
The Committee further recommends that Government ensures that the mining companies also develop the areas that they would be operating in by constructing roads that lead to schools and clinics by
December, 2017. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: Thank you Madam President
for affording me this opportunity to second the report tabled by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa. Briefly, let me confirm that when the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment started moving around looking at what was happening in Mudzi, amongst the people who started giving evidence was the Chief Executive Officer of the Rural District Council who gave us an overview of what was happening. Then came the Deputy Minister of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment who was saying almost the same thing. Then we met with Mr. Gudyanga, the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Mining Development and also the Provincial Minister who were all saying the same thing.
Even during the Committee’s investigations on the types of minerals that were mined there, which include gold, tantalite and black granite. We discovered that in Makaha ward there were illegal miners who are depriving the local community from benefiting. In Mudzi there are about 113 registered gold mining companies, 89 in Mutoko and eight were mining black granite. In Mudzi 25 companies were mining black granite. Many companies there were not able to progress due to the following reasons. The charges were prohibitive, hence people who were supposed to engage in the mining could not afford to do so and were also not knowledgeable. It was a question of lack of cash for the majority and the Committee also realised that the local communities were not benefiting anything from the companies that are operating in their areas. The chiefs are excluded in the mining programmes of precious stones. The police were also bemoaning their lack of adequate transportation to move around.
The Committee also realised that there was need for a nearby centre where miners can sell their minerals. When they sell, they do not know how much minerals they are selling as there is no weigh bridge.
There were a lot of other activities during the mining of the black granite - like blasting, drilling and processing of the minerals. Without wasting much time, I will end here because Hon. Sen. Tawengwa mentioned most of the activities. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I just want to add my voice on this report that was tabled before this august Senate by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa, seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Dandawa.
Mr. President, this is a very crucial report, taking into consideration that there is no establishment of the community share ownership trusts. I do not want just to talk about Mudzi and Mutoko because there is need in every area where there are ongoing mining activities for the people to benefit. You will find that we are always bemoaning the lack of sufficient schools and clinics in the communal areas, of which if at all they had these schemes, they would be constructing some of these clinics and schools. Due to lack of these community share ownership trusts, there is no development in our own areas yet a lot of mining is taking place there.
Mr. President, I also listened very well when they were presenting their report, particularly in the two areas that they visited. They discovered that there was no involvement of the chiefs, if we all recall that chiefs are the custodians of the land - then why should they be left behind? How are they now going to supervise the land that they are supposed to take care of? I think there is much need on that issue. Also during their report, they cited a lot of land degradation which is a very thorny issue as most of these disused mines are left open and a lot of degradation is taking place. This is now a trap for our livestock as well as people because when holes are left like that, some of them will not be very deep, as a result when people walk at night and even during the day - or grazing livestock, fall into these pits and die.
I think there should be a policy on this issue to protect the people and EMA should be in the forefront. When a policy is enacted, it means the perpetrators have to be fined. There has to be a sentence for these people who leave holes unattended to. Apart from that, you will find that they use chemicals when they are operating and sometimes in these holes, there will be water that would have been left there with the residue of those chemicals which are very poisonous to people as well as livestock. So, there is really need for something to be done.
Mr. President, I felt that I should just contribute to this report because it is not about Mudzi and Mutoko only but where there is mining, these things are there. As Legislators, we have to put our heads together and find means of how we can minimise the degradation of the land because we have to leave a legacy for our children and not to leave such holes with cyanide and so forth. If we leave them like that, they will curse us in our own graves saying that we did not leave a good legacy for them. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you very much Mr. President. I
have stood up to add a few words to the motion raised by Hon. Sen.
Tawengwa about the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment. In fact, the very notion of indigenisation is highly supported by everybody. It is so beneficial because it creates employment to people who endeavor to explore in that land but the issue where the communities do not benefit out of these processes is very disturbing. In the report, it was mentioned that there is no provision of community benefit and the participation in the mining activities. Now, that shows exactly from the onset that these people who are supposed to benefit in communities, sometimes suffer a lot of problems as a result of these mining explorations.
Mr. President, the area where there is vast degradation of land, it is not only in the mining sector alone but I noticed that even in the area of Seke where sometimes people dig this particular soil which they use for building purposes. There are holes everywhere and these particular holes are dangerous to animals, especially in the mining areas, there is quite a number of destruction cases that we notice cattle falling in these deep holes, water becoming so much poisonous to the extent that it will not be safe to drink by those animals. As a result, they get contaminated and again those people who own them lose their cattle because of those explorations. It is also mentioned that the Mines and Minerals Act has no provision for compensation of people moved from those particular mining areas.
Mr. President, people want to live their lives and again they depend on areas that they would have developed themselves. It is not easy to move a person from an area which one feels has developed for quite some time and there is no total regard in terms of expected compensation. Those areas must be looked at very seriously because the person who wins is the miner himself but those who live in those areas tend to suffer as a result of that. Those are issues that this august House has to look into very seriously because people need to be protected from these particular things. There is also pollution that was mentioned and the roads are so bad, they have totally deteriorated.
Again, there is deforestation, there is a lot of evidence that wherever these miners go, there is a lot of cutting down of trees and as a result, they do not seem to care to even plant other trees as a substitute measure.
Mr. President, those are areas which are so much worrisome. It appears also economically that there is little benefit out of that because they sell that gold to other people not to Fidelity as is expected because they would have found, perhaps a little one but want to have huge profits out of very small proceeds.
I would like to concur with the last recommendation that was made that at least those miners must take upon themselves to repair the roads that they would have damaged so that at least that is another contribution to the community. I have also heard that the contribution that they do to the communities is in the tune of a $1 which is almost the cost of one loaf of bread.
Mr. President, this report needs to be looked at diligently and make recommendations to it and adopt those recommendations in this House so that we sort of redirect these people to force them to contribute to the communities that are suffering as a result of that. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me the opportunity to support the report which was tabled by Hon. Tawengwa, which is about the unavailability of Community Share Ownership Trust in Mudzi and Mutoko District. I think that the Community Share Ownership Trust is the only way that will make surrounding people to benefit from the minerals that are in their areas. It will not be fair for them not to benefit from that because they are the ones being affected by dust, diseases, degradation of land, deforestation and they also have their roads damaged when these people are engaged in their mining activities. So, I would like to thank this Committee which went to investigate and got recommendations on ways to resolve
that.
The challenges that were noted are that the miners who were supposed to pay as qualifying companies are not meeting their obligations because they just pledge and do not fulfill. So, we applaud what the Committee has brought that whenever they make pledges, they should be forced to pay 25% there and there. If they come up with a payment plan, at least the people would have something because most of these miners are just pledging and they do not honour up. We have seen it even from the areas where we come from because there is no law that enforces them to pay the pledges. Community Share Ownership Trust has 10% on the mines but there is no documentation which supports that. So, the Committee is just saying that the processing of that document should be expedited. For people to know that we should have 10%, you should be sitting in the board meetings so that you know the work that has been done in order for you to get 10%. That is what the Committee is saying and we support that and what the Committee is saying is clear.
It is true that as a country, we cannot survive when people, for years have been mining these stones. We see them from Mt. Darwin. There is no weigh bridge in Mutoko and what are we doing? I think there should be weigh bridges everywhere so that we know the amount of minerals that are being exported from this country. Just imagine a Council getting a dollar out of every mine, because a dollar is worth a lot of bread, but it is not even a loaf of bread because you need transport to go and buy a loaf of bread. That tonne is just that people are saying that it is a tonne because there is no weigh bridge. We want all this to be looked at and we have to look at our laws so that people will benefit from the minerals in their areas.
We also heard that districts are not supposed to launch Community Ownership Trusts because it is done from the provincial level. But, we want to say that the province should expedite that so that people will not congregate at district level but as a province. This means that the people in Mutoko and Mudzi are being short-changed because the province is taking too long to come up with the Community Share Ownership
Trusts. We just say all the recommendations should be implemented.
Turning to the Ministry of Mines, they are also doing something and the youth are not aware of what is happening. I think they should be transparent and they should all be looked at from one point when it comes to indigenisation. If it is not clear, investors will not come in. There should be harmonisation which we support. With these few words, we want to thank the Committee for the work that they have done. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you very much Mr. President. I
would like to thank Hon. Sen. Tawengwa for the report that he has just delivered to the House. This is why some of us end up being labelled as sell outs when we refuse to acknowledge some of these activities which, when they come, they are meant to benefit the society. By and large, they never do in the end and it is clear that they benefit no more than one or two people, and not even people in the area where the projects are launched, but away from the areas.
We are not taken seriously when we debate these things. When we debate something like this Mr. President, I would have liked the Minister of Mines to be sitting here listening to what the Hon. Senators are saying, the concerns that we have because there is no amount of talking that we will do in here that will result in a change of any kind unless the person who is going to institute the change is here. I do not honestly believe that he is going to bother to take the Hansard from the Senate, read it and implement it. I do not think that it is going to happen.
Mr. President Sir, the ease of doing business in Zimbabwe will continue to be lip service, unless we take our work seriously and hold to account those in the Executive that are supposed to implement. The things that have been pointed out by the Senators are all correct and I am sure that this is not the first time that they have been mentioned in this House or outside this House. We will continue to mourn and cry but nothing is going to change. Things will only change if there is a mechanism by which we hold the people responsible to account for what they are supposed to do.
It is a pity Mr. President Sir. I come from Mashonaland East and this is where Mutoko is and this is where the granite is taken from to Italy and to other places. I can tell you that is where you find the poorest of the poor people in Zimbabwe. We have got holes everywhere. Our mountains are half removed. They never ever come back to do any repairs and they do not come back to look at the roads that they have been using for cutting away these mega tonnes that they take to Europe with them and nothing is done about it. Surely, there must be somebody who is benefitting from that, otherwise somebody would have been stopped a long time ago and we would like to know who in the end is benefiting.
Mr. President Sir, would the Government be happy to see the people of Mutoko sitting on the roads making sure that those vehicles cannot pass carrying the materials, the ores that they take away from our area. I am sure if we were to organise something like that, the first thing that will be sent are the police to arrest the people. Suddenly, something will start happening because now, money cannot flow out so that it can flow into someone’s account. We have to make decisions in here that will result in action being taken. Talking nonstop is not going to help us.
With those words, I want to thank you Mr. President Sir.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to make my contribution on the report given by the Committee which has been represented by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa. It is true that we may not beat our chest and boast that we are Government and yet we are not benefitting from the natural resources which are in our country. We should also be able to tell the quantities of the mineral ores which are taken out of the districts and out of the country. We have 30 tonnes - lorries which will be taking out the ore. We are pleading with the Government that they should acquire lots of weigh bridges. If they are saying they cannot erect these weigh bridges on our roads, they should utilise the facilities from the Grain Marketing Board because the Grain Marketing Board has enough weigh bridges and at times they are
idle.
I am saying this because we can soon be impoverished because of our minerals going out. As a result, we would like to invite the Ministry of Mines to attend one of our deliberations so that he will be in a position to understand what we are talking about so that he may formulate policies which are according to the needs of the people. When we talk of the Minister, we are talking of an official who drafts policy according to the needs of the country. We have had some researches which have been done by some Committees like when we talk of the Community Share Trusts, we were informed that the Chairperson of that Committee is a traditional chief and the other Members include Hon. Sen. Chief Nyamukoho and yet he has been telling this House that he is not aware of the production levels of some of these minerals and ores which are being dug out. We need to put in place some mechanisms which can assist in harnessing the value of these ores because for all, we know the miners are exporting the ore and we remain impoverished.
When the Committee made the fact finding visit, we praised them because we say it is step one. Why do I call it step one - that was the first stop which they held their investigations but Zimbabwe is a very big country and is endowed with a lot of minerals. We need to hold such investigations by the Committee so that we can harness and benefit from our rich natural resources especially minerals.
I am now urging the Government to do some deliberate policies to include some women in some of these programmes because women are very responsible and they will really play that oversight role in checking on the extraction, production and exporting of minerals. That is why we are calling for the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to be present in this House and listen to our debates. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I thank
Hon. Sen. Tawengwa who raised this motion talking about the minerals in Zimbabwe. When you do not visit these areas where mining is taking place, you are not very much touched because you cannot visualise what is going on. These miners visit and prospect at different areas and they will mine at any other place. If they feel that the ore is not the quality which they want, they simply leave it but when that mineral is brought into the market, it fetches a lot of monies.
When these minerals are exported they benefit us a lot. We have also realised that in the value addition some of these minerals especially these rocks which are being mined in Mashonaland East are manufactured into floor tiles but they are so expensive that you cannot afford them. Even when they are exported and brought back into this country they will be so expensive that the ordinary person in Zimbabwe cannot afford them. One may be forgiven to think that these minerals are mined in South Africa or in some other countries overseas. That is why we are calling for the Minister of Mines and Mining to visit the countryside and inspect all the mines including the gold mines.
Zimbabwe is rich in natural resources such as gold and granite. I have been observing this since year 2000 and I recognised these mining companies extracting the rocks from these areas and exporting them. We need to embark on value addition because these products which manufactured may include tombstones and we need to know what is going on. I am pleading with the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to go on a tour to inspect these minerals and look at how our natural resources are being utilised because Zimbabwe as a country, we are so disadvantaged that we will not benefit from the mineral mines.
I thank you.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Mr. President. I would like
to put a few words on this report which has been tabled about
Community Share Trusts which are not being enjoyed by Zimbabweans.
There is an old Ndebele saying which goes, “the riches of a fool are eaten by those who are wise”. That is important when I am looking at this report. I see that at places where these Community Share Ownership Schemes are people have developed in those areas. Schools have been built, clinics have been built and the women and youth are also involved in projects. If there was nothing in that community that would enable a community share scheme to begin, it is because there are a few resources. Why should those few resources be made available to the people of Mutoko. Even if it is little, they should enjoy that because it is theirs. It is not for foreigners.
I see in many places there are many things that are hidden from the Zimbabweans so that they remain poor while others are getting richer. Mr. President, I will say it because this portfolio has had quite a number of different ministers and we have observed that there is a particular place which has a lot of wealth such as stones which they were given abundantly by the Lord in their area but the people from the community are not getting anything there. Those people who are mining there, their licences should be cancelled if the people are not getting anything.
People from Mutoko can come up as a group, take over the mines and work on them so that the things are done in a proper manner through various fora.
I would like to agree with many Hon. Senators that have spoken here that, that is end of the story and nothing happens. I do not know whether what we debate is not heard or is not of quality but Hon. Senators here are representatives of the people out there. If they debate here, they do not only say their opinions but they say what they will have heard from their constituencies – challenges being faced by their people; opinions for people they represent. If we bring such things here and there is no feedback that we have heard your issues, we have taken your matter to Parliament - what is the answer? What is going on concerning that?
It is important that when you debate such important matters, responsible Ministers should be there so that they can hear what the needs of the people are so that they can work it out. It is not good Mr. President that after 37 years people sitting on top of wealth which can develop their lives, you find they are still poor and continue to be poor.
People want to be heard so that they realise what is theirs.
It is happening in various areas where there are resources which are being mined. Where there are trees for making furniture, you find that the people who stay there do not realise much from the trees. It does not help the people of Zimbabwe, but it is taken out of the country and we say Zimbabwe is a country which is underdeveloped. Zimbabwe has a lot of riches and resources which are given abundantly by the Lord. With these resources that were given to Zimbabwe in various places, Zimbabwe should be a rich country but many countries are far much richer than Zimbabwe. As a result of our wealth and resources, we are being suppressed. They take our resources.
What I would like to say is that we are now independent. Are we still being suppressed 37 years after independence? Who is suppressing us? It is like just standing in water but you are thirsty. We have a lot of resources but we are poor. That is the truth which is there in Mutoko.
They have the resources they were given by the Lord but they are poor. Why is it like that? Since the report has been tabled here, for it to pass through without getting a proper answer is not good. I am not saying that people should not make it pass but it is important that this august Senate should hear from the Minister, whether he has heard about these or not. The Minister should hear the challenges and queries that are being raised by the people and inform the House of the steps or measures he is taking so as to address issues of the people of Mutoko so that they can access their resources. With these few words Mr. President, I am saying if this debate comes to an end after the report, action should be taken. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I thank
Hon. Sen. Tawengwa for this report supported by Hon. Sen. Chief Dandawa. You have given us an insight on what is happening on our minerals in Zimbabwe on the extraction and selling. We also thank the Committee for this eye opener which you did in your investigation, especially on the operations of the Community Share Ownership Trust. What really surprises me is that we were informed that in Mudzi District, there are 113 mining companies and we ask ourselves what these companies are doing in the Mutoko and Mudzi area. This shows us that as Zimbabweans we have some problems whereby we ignore some of these problems when they are coming in.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. TAWENGWA): Just to correct you, they are not 113 companies but mines.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I am talking about 113 registered mines. We were informed that the Community Share Ownership Trust is shared by the chief in the area and this creates animosity between the chief and the community because they will think that the chief is corrupt and is benefiting. Again, the chief may be held responsible for the problems which may be occurring. At times, this may lead to lack of respect from his subjects because when he is chairing such an organisation, he also expects to get some benefits from the extraction of minerals. This is in our Statutory Instruments and that is why it was said the chiefs or traditional leaders should be in the forefront of such functions.
We have also noticed that in Zimbabwe, according to our culture, we have some sacred places which should not be disturbed. However, we have realised that in some areas in our country, mining programmes have dishonoured these sacred places. What is really sad about these mining programmes is that the people in those areas do not benefit because the minerals production is shipped out of the district and maybe out of the country.
We also noticed that even the police have no power to arrest the perpetrators of such heinous crimes because they should also be benefiting through the supply of transport so that they can move and maintain law and order in the mining area. The mining companies do not care about the police. They will only think about the police if they have problems such as fights or some cheating in the finances. We are saying the Community Share Ownership Trusts were meant to benefit locals so that they get enough food; schools and clinics are built and roads are maintained. These areas which may have been lagging behind in development should be developing now because of these minerals which are extracted in their areas.
I am asking and begging the Minister of Mines and Mining Development and the Minister of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment to come and listen to the debates. This is because we are not talking about a soccer match between Zimbabwe and Liberia, which is just a game but we are talking of life savings and the social service of the people of Zimbabwe and their welfare. When you look at these places, we only have a few people, maybe two people who are benefiting. Therefore, I am calling for this Committee to move around the country and make thorough inspection on the programmes of these mining projects so that we are able to identify the source of the problems. Everybody wants to benefit from mining and as Members of Parliament, we also need to benefit from these programmes. We are aware that our Parliament is unable to function properly due to lack of funds.
Let us utilise our mineral resources hence we need respective ministers to monitor the indigenisation, small enterprises and mining programmes. We do not have to be competing, we are saying let us scrutinise and monitor so that we empower the communities because we are now into problems due to land degradation and destruction of our rivers through siltation of dams. These places have been mined since
2010 hence the insurmountable destruction and a lot of disadvantages. When these mining companies finish extracting the desired minerals, they should restore the land to its former state and fill up all the holes.
I call upon this august Senate to hold these mining companies to account. As Members of Parliament, we have moved from our homes to come and debate, so we should be safeguarding the wealth of our country. Very few people are benefiting from these mineral ventures yet most of the blame is placed on artisanal miners. I thank this Committee for the thorough investigations that it carried out on the mining activities in this country. When we heard of the functions and modus operandi of the Community Ownership Share Trusts, we were very happy and elated because we thought the programme would lead to the development of districts, provinces and communities - but it has come to naught.
Therefore, let us not drag our traditional leaders into this mud simply because Hon. Sen. Chief Nyamukoho chaired this meeting yet the district did not benefit. The people will be blaming the chief for presiding over a self-destructive organisation. When we encounter natural disasters like what happened in Tsholotsho, the chiefs stay with the people are supportive. All these people who are responsible for the extractions are benefiting yet they do not support the communities. When these people embark on their programmes, they appeal to the chiefs and the police. We need to look at the programmes that are on ground. I also noticed in some instances during the process of ferrying these stones to the intended destinations. These huge rocks are left by the roadside without removing them timeously and this creates traffic jams and hazards on our roads.
This Committee should be empowered to move around the country and make thorough investigations and recommendations to the country.
We need to disempower these Community Ownership Share Trusts as they are creating animosity between the Members of Parliament, local communities and the extractors. People were informed Community Ownership Share Trusts would bring about benefits and development in the areas where extraction would be taking place yet we have nothing to show for it. The Community Ownership Share Trusts should finance the implementation of parliamentary programmes.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President, I wish to add my voice on the motion that we are debating in this august Senate. The first point is that we are to blame as parliamentarians because when we were writing the Constitution, we all agreed that people who have certain resources in particular areas must benefit. When we came to the issue of devolution, we were the first people to argue and said we did not need devolution at this stage. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Had we accepted that there was something to benefit from devolution then we would be having locals demanding what is rightfully theirs. We are now complaining that a lot is happening in our areas and we are not benefitting yet if we had maintained what we put in the Constitution, definitely we would not be complaining today.
The second issue is who initiated the Community Ownership Share Trusts? Was it Government, if it is Government, why then did we fail to make sure that we implement? You would get a company coming and saying, yes we are going to give $10 million. There is a very specific example from Manicaland in Chiadzwa and we know very well that we got nothing from that. The question we then ask is what happened? We know Portfolio Committees have tried to investigate and it died a natural death as we did not get any answer as to what happened to the Community Ownership Share Trusts that were supposed to have benefited communities. All I am saying is that once we come up with a policy, let us implement it. I do not believe that as Government we have failed to make sure that those schemes work and benefit communities.
In terms of this debate, I am calling on the Government to revisit whether these schemes are working and if they are not, what is happening and who is responsible? What has happened? I do not want to speculate on the fact that certain people are benefiting, but my question is why has Government not taken it upon itself to make sure that people benefit in the communities? We know exactly what these schemes should have done. We know very well that there are certain people who may be benefiting and this is why Government is not taking it upon itself to ensure that they enforce or it enforces the Community Ownership Share Trusts to be operational.
Mr. President, there is every justification at this stage to take stock of what we have in the various provinces. Once we identify what we have, let us check whether people are benefiting. Let us not just talk about indigenisation when we cannot enforce the laws we come up with. We do not want to come up with policies that just end up as policy issues that are on paper and kept by an individual rather than everybody knowing what people have to benefit from. It is our responsibility to now start demanding what people should benefit from. I think this is a very good example from the report we received this afternoon that something has to be done. It should not just end as a debate but practically Government should be called upon to bring people to account and this is the time to do it. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 14th June, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY
POLITICAL PARTIES
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 14th June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Five minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday 14th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Madam President. I
move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be deferred to Tuesday, 20th June. 2017.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY
POLITICAL PARTIES
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President for this opportunity. As indicated, I would like to wind down debate on my motion. As I do that I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Ncube who seconded the motion and all the Senators who debated the motion. I am very grateful to their input. I want to register my appreciation for their contributions in both sections, the social and political segments. Your contributions are well appreciated.
In rounding up, I would like to restate the following points – first, we must remember that we are a Zimbabwean family with one
Zimbabwe, one country to whose stability we should all contribute. Secondly, I do not know of any positive contribution that violence can give to this country, society and to its people. I know that as we debate, some of us may have suffered violence in our lives but as indicated by other contributors, it is critical that we learn to forgive each other as
Zimbabweans and move forward. As a generation, we have a legacy of delivering liberation to this country. We need to add to that legacy and leave a legacy where we are remembered as a nation that corrected its errors and contributed to a second legacy which is a society that is fearless, violence free and respected by itself and future generations.
With those words, Mr. President, I move the motion that;
NOTING that violence has become an integral part of our socio- political way of life;
CONCERNED that we cannot build a progressive developmental nation within a violent environment;
CONCERNED about the violence oriented and negative legacy we are developing as a nation;
NOW THEREFORE calls upon this House:
- to denounce all forms of violence being perpetrated upon and among the people of Zimbabwe;
- to call upon the law enforcement arms of Government to enforce law and order without fear or favour;
- to admonish political parties so that they desist from the use of violence in order to impose their will on the people of Zimbabwe;
- to challenge the Executive to fulfill its constitutional obligation by respecting human rights in terms of Sections
48-78 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, be adopted.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NON-ESTABLISHMENT
OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of the Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. I
would like to commend the mover of this motion and the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on their report. I
listened carefully to the report and the contributions which came from Hon. Senators. In my mind, questions that kept coming are - was this statutory framework properly thought out in the beginning? Are we not getting unintended results from these statutes? Is it not time for us as legislators to look at these statutes?
I speak as a Senator from Manicaland, I come from Zimunya Marange. We have actually seen a situation which is untenable, a situation which has brought in so much conflict. When the Community Ownership Trust was launched, a big occasion. The Head of State and
Government came and a dummy cheque was presented. With all the
Committees in this Parliament that have tried to investigate what exactly happened, no cent was received from the pledges that were made. What it actually means is that these regulations are conflicting. Why did we come up with statutes which make Ministries fight? We heard the
Minister of Mines and Mining Development saying one thing and the Minister of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment saying the other and yet they all sit in one Cabinet and report to one President of the country.
In all statutes of Government, there should be one Ministry which implements the regulations and administration. The international companies that come to mine in this country are left to run from this Ministry to that Ministry and there is no coordination. We do not need statutes that create competing centres of control and administration. It is time that we come up with statutes which make sure that if it is mining let the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development take control of regulations and administration. The companies are left to do what they want and yet when they first come into the country to invest they deal with Government. When they go to mine in different areas they are left to deal with district and provincial officials.
Whilst the intended results were that we want to enrich and empower those districts, we have not benefited from these Community Share Ownership Trusts. When these multinational companies come into this country, they should deal with the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development because the Ministry of Mines has got researchers who keep updates of what is happening globally. As such, they can pin down companies which come into this country to pay the monies which they would have been asked to pay.
There is confusion of authority and this has been coming from a lot of international companies which have come into this country. There are inconsistencies and confusion of taxation. EMA charges its own taxes and other arms of Government charge their own taxes and these international companies will then go to where they benefit better. If they can corrupt one or two officers they will do that. There should be central control to make sure that these companies pay what they are supposed to pay. We have a situation where EMA is fighting against indigenisation laws, fighting with the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. Why can the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development not follow through to make sure that the intended results are achieved? The world-over Central Government is the centre of authority but we have a situation where the Community Share Ownership Trust is given to a district official who does not even have a car to run around or at times it is given to a chief like what has happened. Chiefs have just been taken advantage of because they have not been empowered to run the Trusts because information does not come to them so easily. Companies have taken advantage of that. We need uniformity and that can come from Central Government. We do not want companies to pay on benevolence basis - no! There should be an enforcement mechanism which should be put in place.
Mr. President, if the intention was to create value of these statutes – it is very clear even here in Parliament that we have not been able to establish what happened to the Community Share Ownership Trust in Marange. It is very clear that it created conflict among Ministries. It also created conflict among various levels of Government such as provincial and districts. As legislators, we need to harmonise these statutes. It is critical that there is coordination among all levels of Government to make sure that we get the intended consequence; otherwise that is what is called law of unintended consequences. This is what we are getting from Community Share Ownership Trusts statutes. It is important for this House to take this report seriously. I want to thank the Committee and say this is not just happening in Mutoko but all over the country. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NDLOVU: I thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate. Since I am a Member of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment, I have a few words to say. We went to Mutoko and Mudzi to see what was obtaining on the ground in terms of the mining activities and we sat down with people from the surrounding areas to understand how the Community Share Ownership Trust works in those districts. We found that quite a lot of people are not working. Some of the pledges that were made to Government did not materialise. There was only one company which pledged a certain amount to help the community.
All over Zimbabwe, there are various minerals which can help our people in their communities. People need minerals in their districts and communities in order to sustain themselves. The local people have not been benefiting anything. In Mudzi, the roads are deplorable. There are no schools. Sometimes when miners are ferrying these huge stones they leave them by the road-side thereby posing a danger to humans and traffic. Some miners just extract these big stones and leave big holes. Workers are not being paid and yet these stones are exported outside the country. What does the law say on such matters?
As a Senate, we should look into it and carefully look at this report which has just been presented. We should look at the report thoroughly so that we come up with resolutions which should be presented to the
President so that the communities can realise the true value of
Community Share Ownership Trusts. People are doing as they want.
From where I come from in Matabeleland South, the Community Share Ownership Trust of Gwanda is better managed because it has built schools, clinics and there are some schools that have been rehabilitated.
EMA should do its work. I do not know whether the responsible Ministry - the artisanal miners are being chased around by EMA and they leave their mines uncovered. Some artisanal miners are being charged and fined. There should be a law that enforces the closing of tunnels so that beasts do not get injured. Another danger is that these mines are full of water and beasts may fall into these tunnels which are full of water.
I think we should come up with a solution to this matter because Zimbabweans have to benefit from their minerals. Our country is rich and it cannot have poor people because we have minerals. Each province has its own mineral which can sustain its community and we should not always cry to Government when our areas have abundant riches. Each of us should look at our provinces. We have chiefs and traditional leaders but most of these traditional leaders do not know anything. They are deprived of information. If there is something happening in their area of jurisdiction and you ask them what is going on, they will tell you that they do not know. The Ministry of Mines should let them know what is happening in their areas in liaison with the chiefs because they know all the minerals in their area. May I request all of us to put our heads together and not just look at Mutoko roads only but all over, where there is gold, diamonds and other resources. It is worthless if people do not benefit. There is no employment so people rely on those minerals for sustenance. Mr. President, we need to assist our people on that matter. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I want to thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion which is very essential. It is a painful exercise and I am very grateful to the
Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment, which went to Mutoko and Mudzi to check on the community ownership trusts. I am very grateful for what you did Hon. Members because you brought back very valuable information. To say the truth, if you had not visited those areas, we would be in the dark, not knowing what is happening in some parts of Zimbabwe. However, because of your dedication, we now know what is happening on the ground and we are not relying on hearsay but on concrete proof. Thank you Hon. Sen. Tavengwa and your committee for that sterling job.
Listening to what you were saying, I was very touched and emotional. These articulated trucks that you were talking about also move around in areas in Mutare. They are used to transport imports and exports. As they move, they destroy the roads. When these boulders are taken from Mutoko, they are exported to Beira or Maputo in
Mozambique. What surprises us is that while all these things are being exported, the people in the areas where the mining of granite is taking place are living in poverty. So, we need to relook at our Indigenisation and Empowerment policy so that it helps improve the people’s lives. I know for sure that if we had properly implemented the ownership share trust scheme, the people in Mutoko and Mudzi would be living lavish lives. However, these miners are shortchanging us and we have a feeling that the miners should be working with district teams, provincial teams and local traditional leaders. They should be talking about the programme and the progress in that area. As you already know, the traditional structure of administration, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Ministry of Local Government are both aiming to improve the livelihood of the people. When we were talking during the war of liberation, we thought we were going to come back to Zimbabwe and murder all the whites because of their cruelty. Nevertheless, we were told that we were fighting to regain our properties which had been taken away from us forcefully by the whites.
We need to know that Zimbabwe is very wealthy because of its natural resources. You then start asking yourself why we should be talking about poverty in Zimbabwe when we have so many mines and natural resources such as platinum, diamonds and gold. When we look at what is happening in other countries, they are progressing and developing using their natural resources. So, why is Zimbabwe poor? I am appealing to you Mr. President to invite the Ministers responsible for these Ministries to come and listen to these debates. We come from our constituencies to speak about the development of our country. People need to live lavish lives and healthy lives. We may talk about Mutoko and Mudzi but they are not the only ones. In the areas that we come from, a lot of dust is raised during the mining of diamonds which at times are referred to as blood diamonds because they finance wars as they generate huge amounts of money. In the case of Zimbabwe, you wonder why – what is the curse on Zimbabwe, we have the diamonds but we are not progressing or developing. There is nothing which you can point to as having come out of the community ownership share trusts. The youths should be employed but we have so many who are unemployed, hence the question what is happening? The only thing we hear about is when the artisanal miners are fighting, people dying and killing each other.
As this Eighth Parliament, we need to work on resolving these problems so that we leave a legacy where people will be saying that the Eighth Parliament led to the improvement of lives. I have heard the Speaker of the National Assembly saying that Parliament has a lot of tasks to perform and yet we are failing to achieve whatever is expected of us. So I am pleading with you Hon Members that we are on the final stretch of our term in office and we should work hard to create some last minute miracles. I have spoken to some people during my research and spoke to people who come from China. They were telling me of a board which brings together Government and the political parties. This board is neutral; it is not partisan. It helps in researching and vetting the progress in the country. As a Zimbabwean, I think we need to create that kind of a board like the one in China, which will bring accountability to the responsible Ministries. Where there are some shortcomings, they should be rectified.
When you look at what is happening in the country, you really wonder and say, what do people think when they read the debates in the Hansard. We say what do they think about us. I was at a retreat in Ethiopia and one of the topics which was very hot was the generation gap. We were being asked whether we are preparing for the future of our countries, the future of coming generations and we are now here preparing for the future generation.
Zimbabwe has been known to be very good at drafting policies which are progressive but the implementation of these proposals is nil. If we look at things like gender development and youth development, some countries have benefited from the plans generated by Zimbabwe, yet we are still behind. When you look at our President, he even wishes to have people who would work with him in bringing prosperity to the country. As the august Senate, let us work with our President and bring prosperity to the country.
Mr. President I am not going any further because as they say, too many cooks spoil the broth and I am saying too much talking may spoil the broth. I am sure you heard the contributions put forward by Hon.
Senators yesterday. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. First and foremost, I would like to thank the entire committee and its leadership for what I would call an eye opener. Secondly, I want to submit that the report focused on Mudzi and Mutoko but it is a summation of what is transpiring in all the corners of this country. We have set up the community trusts and just about given up on them in terms of making sure that they are a success.
Mr. President, I would want to empasise that mineral wealth is a finite resource; we cannot regenerate it. If we let it go and do not put it to good use at one stage, we cannot hope to recover anything in future from that lost mineral. For me, it is therefore imperative that mineral wealth should be guarded with the greatest of jealousy; the amount of jealousy equivalent to the jealousy you have for your own wife. - [HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: or husband.] – Or husband as Sen. Sibanda says here. I was not aware Mr. President that they are also jealous.
Mr. President, I have a proposal here that we need to create an instrument that functionalises a Community Share Ownership Trust. What I seem to see is a board that was set up and as I have said left to the wolves. We have chiefs sitting on Community Share Ownership
Trusts. What is the point in asking a chief to sit on the final product? The chief does not know what has happened. I therefore propose that various chiefs in their localities be co-opted into the boards of management of each company from which – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear,
hear.] – I am saying that Mr. President very proudly.
The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development has a submission from me where I have suggested that certain chiefs in an area in which there is potential mining be part of the board. Why have I said that? It is my belief that chiefs in this country are not corrupt. It is my belief that the only person who can look after the wealth of his subjects is the chief. It is also my belief that where there is conflict, the chief is the most capable in terms of ameliorating that conflict. Therefore, anything that transpires within an area managed by a chief, from which the chief is excluded smells a rat Mr. President. My view is that people are not keen to see chiefs on those boards because they know that the chiefs will not tolerate some of the nonsense that goes on in the mining area. Chiefs can bear me out. I am not politicking here; I have done that and I will continue to insist on that position.
The next area I would like to deal with is the area that the Committee raised, the area of forfeiture. My belief is where you apply for something in writing, you must later receive the response of a regret in writing. Our people are generally not that sophisticated from a business point of view but they have applied for a mining opportunity.
They have been given a mining opportunity and sometimes they do not realise that because they have not paid their taxes, they are going to forfeit. So, I am proposing that before the forfeiture, there must be written communication to the individual who has a claim and he is advised.
Part of my contribution says, I have been to mines and asked about one of my claims and said, when is it due to expire. I have been told well, in three or four years. I have said, hey is it three years or four years because they simply said in three or four years. I am sure that when I go there after four years and somebody tells me that they have forfeited my mining rights, there will be a small war because they did not seem to know the period of forfeiture.
Mr. President, I want to thank the Committee for talking about beneficiation. If you go to places like Thailand, there are very few factories in towns. The factories are there in Mudzi, Mutoko, rural Gwanda and Tsholotsho – simple psychology that I think we should adopt. The idea is you generate your raw materials or your stone in
Mutoko and process it there. Firstly, you are creating massive employment for those people. Secondly, you are preventing rural to urban migration which results in huge housing backlogs.
Often times I hear us announcing we have a backlog of 1.2 million as if we are proud of it. It is not right that we have that kind of backlog. It is testimony to our inability to work on economies of scale where we are saying products are produced and processed here and move into the consumption area after processing. The cost of the final product would be much lower than if you were to move stones from Mutoko to Harare and then process them. This creates all the attendant problems of housing, water and all services as a result of failure to plan.
Mr. President, I endorse the proposal that the Minister should be made aware or should be here to listen to some of the debate. I am not sure of the parliamentary procedures but I assume that the Minister can be written to and given our Hansard copies for this process so that he is offay of what we have discussed. For me, it is very serious, that is what we call Zimbabwe – the mineral wealth. The land we can renew but the minerals we cannot renew.
My last worry Mr. President is that it will be very difficult to functionalise suggestions about mineral wealth as long as we have got parallel corruption in this country. So it is necessary to have a multifaceted approach to the preservation of this mineral and that multifaceted approach says that we should take all steps to minimise leakages, starting with the process of applying for mining rights to the process of processing that mineral right ending up with the benefit to the community. A measure of the development is the extent to which your rural areas are developed, if your rural areas are under-developed, the 25% of the population that lives in urban areas does not matter from an economic and statistical point of view. Therefore your index as a developed country remains low and if we use our mineral wealth to improve Zimbabwe’s standing in the global world, we are doing ourselves a farvour. We are doing our own people a farvour.
I heard something when some of the Hon. Senators, who are from the affected regions, constantly saying they do not want the wealth to end up in one or two hands. We had that song if we all listened and that says that they actually know where the wealth is going to or they suspect they understand who is the one or the two people who are taking the wealth. It is high time we take a stance if we know and say, aah, aah this cannot go on, the Community Share Ownership Trusts need to benefit from the exploitation of the minerals in the local area. Mr. President, I do not know whether those are few or many words. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President, I would like to add a few words to this motion on Community Share Ownership Trusts and its benefits to the communities. We can see its wealth from the minerals being mined but the wealth is not cascading to the lower community levels. This wealth is finite and we should preserve it. All wealth is finite and should be preserved. In order for this place to remain in place, people within the communities should have a share in that wealth.
Many of my colleagues have debated here. Honestly speaking, we will never develop if chiefs or traditional leaders are not part of the scheme. I have heard elsewhere and today that the United Nations has taken over. I worked with traditional leaders looking at food issues. In Matabeleland, I would not go into the communities without first approaching the traditional leadership. I was working with the chiefs and because I was working with the chiefs, you can verify with the United Nations and they will tell you to go and emulate the work of the people of Matabeleland North. There should be an integrated approach between the traditional leaders and the miners. Surely, if at all it is done that way, they will remove all the wealth and the owner will only get there after everything has been finished and you are given a pittance of your wealth.
I would like to request Government to allow chiefs to be involved. In my opinion, the Government is at fault when they advise these miners to approach the District Administrators (DA) and not the chiefs. Does a DA have authority over the chief and you report to the DA and not the chief? This is why things are not moving well for us. I observed this also when we were working at COPAC. The land was badly dilapidated and in some places, beasts died after falling into the open mine shafts. Had there been a chief, he would have ordered the miners to fill up those holes. The local communities who were not beneficiaries were the ones left with the task of filling up the holes. We therefore request that chiefs be part of these Community Share Ownership Trusts right from the onset.
When someone has been given a claim, there should be a written payment advice of how much they should pay. Similar to when you borrow from a bank, your interest rate does not rise just because you made a profit. No, they simply state the installments. We should do the same with these miners. They should pay their contributions to the Community Share Ownership Trusts and they should work in order to realise profits and community benefits.
Another thing that worries me is we have people who are involved in furniture manufacturing. When they enter the communities, they haphazardly cut down trees without prior discussion with the chiefs and go and make their furniture. They do not even pay anyone from the communities and locals are not employed but they engage people from other communities. They take all the timber and no chief nor the community in Tsholotsho benefits.
In Lupane, secondary schools are still 15kms away and you hear that the people of Lupane are still illiterate. How can they be educated when schools are so far away and people come and take their timber? School children do not have desks to write on as the timber was used elsewhere. The traditional leaders should be involved from the onset and there should only be one minister so that we know who to approach for better enforcement of laws and there should be no Government infighting by ministries. Whoever is awarded a claim to cut down timber will give the tender to the respective Minister of Industry and Commerce so much or you want to give the Local Government, Public Works and National Housing so much. We request that these people should sit down and ensure community members or chiefs benefit. We request that we should be understood. Everything should be done in an integrated approach to ensure that we work together. We also request that you help so that they understand our request. There is no chief who will allow his people to be poor but he would want his people to live well and develop, enjoy their wealth and access it. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. GOTO: Thank you Mr. President. I stand to add my voice on this motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa of the Indigenisation, Thematic Committee, seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Dandawa. I am one of the Committee Members and I am happy because many people have supported us. It is really a challenge on this issue.
Firstly, I want to say that if this had been investigated long back, I think something would have been done by now. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tawengwa for standing firm so that we compiled this report. We have only travelled once in terms of Community Share Ownership Trusts because we are told that there is no funding. So, I think this should be looked into. All the 10 provinces have this Community Share Ownership Trust. So, I think we should visit all these areas to see what is happening so that we can come up with an exchange programme for these people to visit each other.
It was very difficult when we visited Mudzi and Mutoko, even the way we were welcomed by the people. I think you have heard from the report that things are not well there. The people there are not registered, hence they are not contributing to the board so that our chiefs will get funding.
Meetings cannot be held because people have not registered. We were accompanied by the Chief for that area. Even if the chief was there, we could see that they do not relate well with their local leaders. The people should work well with their local leadership so that things go well. Whatever business that they are engaged in, it comes to a point where you face difficulties and you need the local leadership of that area so that they do their traditional rituals in order for them to carry on with their work. We have seen that our chiefs were being left out and were not happy about it.
They told us that they are building schools. They are just building one block and one borehole, how much have they contributed? Are they going to build a block every year because they have just built one block which they share to showcase to people? That will not make our economy grow? We only saw one school, one borehole and a kitchen from where the children eat. The roads are full of potholes. They are not looking after the place well. Stands are scattered all over.
We also visited the area where they work. We saw that they have reduced the workforce because they are saying that they do not have money. You can see that because they are not adding any value to our economy and our children are not getting employment. The area is very dangerous. It is a health hazard because there is no safety. So, I am encouraging you and I am saying thank you for helping us. For sure, we want the Ministry to be present so that they get to hear what is going on. They should make a follow up of their Ministries, for example, the Ministry of Agriculture is happy because of the Command Agriculture but this Ministry responsible for mining, I think it is like they are not working. They should make a follow up to see results in their ministries. You cannot just say you are heading a Ministry yet nothing is coming out of that ministry.
We want to thank you Senators for supporting this motion. I think you should recommend that we should visit other places to see what is happening so that we share information because after seeing what others are doing, we end up copying and not to just wait to hear. I want to thank you, even our chiefs we want work together with them when it comes to this. We should not put our chiefs aside but we should work with them because we really want to uplift our culture. For us to be where we are today, it is because of our culture. There are certain things that you cannot do but these days you find that people are doing anything.
Our chiefs, we are with you, we support you, and you should get involved in these things. The Chief that we travelled with at one point left us alone because he was really upset. I think we should not repeat it. Next time when we visit these places, we want to see the involvement of chiefs because they are the custodians of our land. I thank you.
HON. SEN. BHOBO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on the motion raised by Hon. Sen.
Tawengwa supported by Hon. Sen. Chief Dandawa on the Thematic Committee report. I am also a member of that Committee. I stand up to show my gratitude to the research done so that we compile this report. People had to go and make investigations and it took us some time to bring all this to the open so that the country and the people are aware of what is going on in the country.
The people of Zimbabwe and this august House have heard that report which was tabled here and I am very grateful to all the people who have made the contributions on the mining projects which are being undertaken throughout the country. I am also grateful for what the Hon. Members have advised that as a Committee, we should move around the country, around the mining projects and see how far they are taking this assignment of mining. We are very grateful to the war veterans who have paved the way for us to liberate the country and we are now owners of our natural resources because in the past, it was unheard of for Hon. Senator Bhobho to own a mine but because we are a liberated country, we have freedom, we are now owning our wealth. In the past, first priority was given to the whites and then on the second world, it was the coloureds and others, but the African was right at the bottom. We are now proud to have our own productive mines. As a country, we are now moving along the ZIM ASSET programme which helps us in conserving and developing our country. We can only do that if we make a thorough inspection, research, look at places where there are any short comings and rectify them.
We also need to inculcate the values of patriotism on the future generation so that we know where the country is coming from and where we are going. We should be fighting these foreign miners and other producers who are extracting this wealth and exporting it. We are so grateful for the powers being given to the Committee that it should move around the country seeing the mines and the productive areas and then bring any anomalies or short-comings to the House.
We are the ears and eyes of the people of Zimbabwe. I support Hon. Members who brought this report and also the people who supported this country. It is the first time that such a Committee has produced an intelligent report which talks about what has to be added and what has to be removed from the report regarding the progress in our natural resources and the extraction of them. We carried our task as empowered by the Committee and the Constitution of Zimbabwe. We should be aware that Zimbabwe is a land that is full of natural resources. We are now using this wealth in carrying out the fact finding visits and researches for the development of the future of our country. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to also add my voice to what has already been said by others. Firstly, I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Tawengwa and his seconder for bringing up such an important motion here in Zimbabwe. This motion will lead this country to take action and make sure that this is an important motion. I see our country developing just like what has happened with command agriculture. If this motion is going to be received by the Minister of Mines, I think we will develop our country.
Thank you Mr. President. I am happy that people were quite happy to debate on this motion and I would also like to thank the Government for having taken action in everything. The was a cheque of large sums of money that was made out but thereafter, there were quarrels and fights here and there over what happened to that cheque. I wish this country was led by women. If the country was led by women, this country would be very rich.
I have noticed that when we talk about what we want or what we require, the Ministry of Women’s Affairs quickly comes and explains everything about what we wanted to know. We have noticed what has been happening in other countries. There is a Ndebele song that goes,
‘All these other nations are now developing because of us’. Now, it touches all other tribes. If we look at when people started mining, we will be shocked when we look at what has come out.
We were once in COPAC and we were moving around the country. We were asking people about the mines that were sprouting all over the country. People were complaining. Firstly, they were saying we just see people coming to mine without the knowledge of the chiefs especially in Mashonaland. People were complaining that locals should benefit from whatever is found in that area. I am very disappointed Mr. President when I hear that people come from abroad to mine here and they leave only a dollar; that is an insult to the country.
We have educated Ministers Mr. President. I am not insulting anyone, but when I look at it from a woman’s point of view, they notice everything. If only some of these Ministries were led by women, I wish I could have access to the President so that I could tell him that he should let women lead. When we go to some areas, you find that most of the chiefs are men, but when you come to my area in Filabusi, there is a place with gold.
A lot of people want to come and mine. We have small scale miners who want to mine and we also have the Chinese. These Chinese have brought very big machinery but people from that area also wanted to mine. When the chief arrived there, they found that the Chinese had already installed their big machinery. He asked them who had given them permission to start mining there. They called the DA who they call DA Mafu and they were told that before the end of the week, all the machinery would be removed. They were told that it is not that there were no people in Zimbabwe who could do mining. He was not happy that people from China were the ones who had come to start mining there but those are people who do not put any infrastructure anywhere. They did not build even a small bridge for primary school children to pass but when they come they destroy everything and just leave. They do not even bid farewell when they leave. So, people have been enriching themselves because of us. People from all over the world were coming to get wealth from here in Zimbabwe. If we look at those who came and took our furniture, gold and diamonds; they owe us a lot. That is why I am saying this is a very important motion and let us handle it seriously so that it can extricate us from all our poverty.
This is a very rich country and God loves this country. He loves it very much. We do not realise that God really loves this country because we have everything that is required in a country but we are the poorest of them all. Our children are trying to do artisanal mining but the
Chinese are coming in to do the mining and they give them peanuts and disappear. When the Minister of Mines and Mining Development took over that portfolio, he promised us that corruption was not going to take place. We want the Minister to come and tell us how far he has gone and what he has done in as far as our minerals are concerned because US$15 billion went missing. If this US$15 billion was not taken by the Chinese we would have been more developed than New York itself.
People should handle these issues carefully. Because of corruption, it is only a few who are benefiting. I wish our people could start following up on this cheque that went missing. If we really look into the issue of this cheque, most of these things would just fall away. I do not know how much we owe other countries but some countries have come to loot our wealth. We are lucky because they did not loot everything. Had it been that they looted everything, then we would be having nothing.
I have been to Dubai. Dubai had nothing but oil. They have used their oil in a very good way. I have been reading an article in the paper about Marange diamonds. The article was saying that if these Marange diamonds were in Dubai, the whole world would be bowing to Dubai. If you look at what they have with the little oil that they have you find that they have turned that desert into a greenbelt but with us who have diamonds we have let foreigners come and take our diamonds giving us peanuts. It is an insult Mr. President.
I do not know if it is allowed that you ask the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to come here so that we can tell him all that we wish. In fact he has to report to us what he has done. He has to tell us what he has done about the issue of corruption especially when we are talking about this black granite that is used for tombstones. If you surf that stone on the internet, you find that it is not found anywhere else but here in Zimbabwe. Everyone is now rushing to Mutoko and they are now calling it Tokyo. You can go all over the world but that is our stone. If you go to other countries you will find how they have been using our stone. I am hurting Mr. President.
I would like to thank the Thematic Committee which presented this report. They should not just go to Mutoko but they should go all over the country so that they can tell us where things are not moving in the right direction. They should also go back to Mutoko to see if things have been rectified through the Minister. If it is possible, we would ask a delegation to go to the President maybe he is not being told the truth. I would propose that we come up with a delegation to see the President and find out from him why we are so poor yet we have such minerals in our country especially diamonds. You will find that the President may be shocked because I do not think that he is being told the truth by Ministers.
The Committee should move forward and we will ask the delegation to go and tell the President that they have not been given the money. The chiefs must also speak up because they should drive stateof-the-art vehicles and not ramshackle. If I were a chief’s wife, I would also voice up. You are the chiefs because you are the owners of this country. You must not just accept anything. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 15th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the alignment of the Electoral Act to the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 15th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE
CONSTITUTION
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees (SDCs) and School Development Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to Resume: Thursday 15th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No 3. Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to Resume: Thursday 15th June, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF STATELESSNESS
IN AFRICA
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to Resume: Thursday, 15th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV
AND AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GOTO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to Resume: Thursday, 15th June, 2017.
On the Motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON.
SEN MAWIRE, the Senate adjourned at Five Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday 15th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: We have the Ministry
of Industry and Commerce being represented. There being no questions without notice we will go into Questions With Notice.
WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
MEASURES TO CAPACITATE LOCAL FERTILIZER COMPANIES
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Industry and Commerce what measures are in place to capacitate the local fertilizer companies so that they are fully operational.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Madam President, The Government, through my Ministry, continues to implement specific policy measures and strategies as a way of capacitating and promoting the local fertilizer companies.
May I inform Hon. Members that the Government, through the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ), mobilised resources to avail to local fertilizer firms to enable them to retool and modernise. During the last quarter of 2015, Zimphos secured a US$10 million loan from the RBZ. Of that amount, US$5 million has so far been utilised at Dorowa Mine to buy equipment as well as refurbish the plant. As a result of the intervention, Dorowa Mine is not operating at 60% capacity utilisation. The remaining US$5 million is currently being utilised to rebuild the sulphuric acid plant at the Zimphos Msasa plant. About US$1.8 million has so far been invested in the project, which is now 25% complete. The company expects to finalise the project during the first quarter of 2018.
The Government, through the National Social Security Authority (NSSA), extended a US$20 million facility to the local fertilizer companies to capacitate them for local production. The uptake of these funds by the companies will further lead to an increase in capacity utilisation.
The removal of products such as Urea and Ammonium Nitrate, Compounds and Blends from the Open General Import Licence under the Import Management Programme has given local firms and opportunity to increase their production. So far, local manufacturing capacity in the fertilizer industry as a whole, has increased from 25% to 40%.
May I also advise the august House that the sole ammonium nitrate producer in the country, Sable Chemicals, resumed production in April
- Currently, 1 500 tonnes of ammonia is in stock and an additional 2 000 tonnes is expected by mid-May. This development is expected to lead to a combined ammonium nitrate fertilizer output of about 7 000 tonnes.
The Government programme on command agriculture has
contracted local firms to supply both top dressing and basal fertilizer to farmers. This programme continues to create local demand for fertilizers from the local companies thereby stimulating production. I thank you.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE NON-ESTABLISHMENT
OF THE COMMUNITY SHARE OWNERSHIP TRUSTS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment on the
Circumstances Surrounding the Non-Establishment of the Community Share Ownership Trusts in Mudzi and Mutoko districts.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF NYANGAZONKE: Thank you Madam
President. I would like to take this opportunity to support the report which was brought by Hon. Sen. Tawengwa seconded by Hon. Sen.
Chief Dandawa. I am also a member of this Committee. We had an opportunity to go to Mudzi and Mutoko districts to look at how they work and why there is non-establishment of the Community Share Ownership Trust. We saw that there is nothing to realise because since there is nothing to work.
We found that the gold is being mined but people do not have the relevant documentation. As to why they do not have the documents, people do not know why. There is damage of the environment, chemical pollution and communities will have problems because of the pollution.
The question is, who is going to attend to those problems and when? When we went to other places where there is mining of black granite, we realised that some other companies would like to go into mining of the same but they do not have the resources to start a company.
The claims are there but after sometime because someone does not have an investor, the claims end up being forfeited. So there is no development where such matters are arising. Where there is no money going to Rural District Councils, it is going to be difficult for development in Mutoko and Mudzi districts which are the entry points into Zimbabwe. These are our people and we should work together with them. When the company was running in 1974, the operations only started in 1986. There is a company called Natural Stone Export Company which had 40 managers but on the ground there were only two managers. There were 1 200 workers but as of now, there are 179. You can see that one thousand people are no longer there. Where are the families of these people? What caused them to leave?
We have high taxes in this country but these minerals are exported into Mozambique. I believe the rates in Mozambique are low, so business is better there. We will not develop if we have high rates. We will lose investors and businesses will collapse. When they cut these stones, the off cuts are used to make tombstones but the bigger stone is exported. Yes, it helps in business but it does not bring viability because the profits realised are low.
We also met with traditional leaders in the two districts. There is nothing that they are doing even though they are the chairpersons of the Trusts. They chair the meetings but there is nothing. They chair those meetings but they do not realise anything out of that. In discussions, they told me that they came by public transport. You can imagine a chief going to a meeting using public transport. He has not dignity at all as a leader in his own community. A traditional leader should be given his necessary respect and dignity. There is nothing that is being done to make a turnaround of the situation. When is this matter going to be remedied? Yes, chiefs are the owners of the land but when are they going to be the owners of their land. They are going to be owners when things are difficult. May this House intervene so that we may not lose our humanity and history?
As traditional leaders, we should ensure that when people do things our minerals develop the community and the traditional leader as well. There was a school which was painted and its roof was rehabilitated. Even though that was done, the level of education should also change. With those few words I thank you Madam President. * HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank you Madam President for
according me this opportunity to add a few words on the report that was tabled by Senator Tawengwa, a report which is very important in our lives. This report is important because I was really pained when I heard that in Mudzi there are about 113 miners and in Mutoko there are 189. The Government should look at what is happening there so that we realise a lot of revenue. I can see that we can mine a lot of minerals from there.
Since the Committee investigated and found out that there is no Community Share Ownership Trust, I think that these miners should support the Community Share Trusts so that the schools are supported, boreholes are sunk and even clinics are constructed. But because these people are many, it means they are not paying anything. There are a lot of them but they are not realising anything and supporting the
Community Share Ownership Trusts.
We went to Zvishavane where we visited the small scale miners. We found a lot of machinery there and we thought these were illegal miners. We are saying as a House, we want the Minister to go down to the grassroots in the rural areas and verify the Committee’s findings because many a times, we say they are illegal miners but we find that these illegal miners have a lot of big machines which degrade our land.
In Mudzi and Mutoko, these earth moving machines have left a lot of pits which are as big as this House. This should be investigated so that after mining they close those pits. As a country, we are not benefiting anything but the companies are benefiting through exports of these stones. We have heard that the lives of school children are in danger because of the haulage trucks which will be ferrying those big stones. I think the Minister should go down to the grassroots and find out what is happening there.
I want to thank the Committee for coming up with the findings. They did a very good job and they brought to light what is happening in those areas. I heard another Senator contributing that even the chief was really pained and left us. It is very painful that as a nation we know our land is full of milk and honey but our laws are not protective enough because we are looking at the Ministry of Youth, Indigenisation and
Empowerment and the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. They should go down to the grassroots and see what is happening. They should engage other relevant Ministries and EMA which should enforce the closing of those pits.
We only visited Maashonaland East but what is happening in the rest of the country? Our country is very rich if we do our things properly. If we use our minerals properly, you will find that our business as parliamentarians would be supported. As an august House, we are asking Government to provide resources to the Committee to go around the country. I am not only referring to this Committee but all the Committees. If they are supposed to tour the country doing their duties they should be supported. You can see that our land is endowed with milk and honey but we do not know where it is and we are not guarding our minerals jealously because people are coming and taking our minerals away.
Some of the stones, we just see them thrown on the roadside but when they come back after they have processed the minerals, they will come and sell the products at exorbitant prices.
*HON. SEN CHIEF NEMBIRE: I rise to also add my voice to the debate on community share ownership trusts. Madam President, 75% of Zimbabweans are living in the rural areas where there are a lot of minerals but there is no poverty alleviation that has been seen in these areas. The Mines and Mineral Act which is going to be amended is very powerful. It will help alleviate the poverty in rural areas. If gold is found where the chief lives, the homestead will be demolished. So, this law should help alleviate the poverty of the people living in the area. Also, the people who are mining black granite in Mutoko and other areas in Zimbabwe are causing deforestation and degradation of the environment which leads to endangering of livestock. So, the chiefs and EMA should work together. Currently the chiefs and EMA are not working together, maybe because of the law.
This issue of mining minerals should bring beneficiation to the people. The law is not empowering people through the minerals found in their areas. Wherever minerals are being mined, dynamite is blasted and most of the houses are affected but no compensation takes place because people will just be taking their wealth outside the country. So, we want the chiefs to be involved and engaged for the way forward. Chiefs are very poor because the minerals in their areas are not benefiting them. The chiefs do not have cars but there is a possibility of the chiefs being rich if they are made to benefit from the minerals in their areas. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: I also want to add a few words to the debate. This issue of community share ownership trusts is very painful to us. The year that the diamond was discovered in Marange – the last people to see the diamond were the people who discovered it. There were policemen and soldiers all over and the people in that area had a tough time. I think there are laws that can help us, that we think of later, but I think this is where devolution should come into place because people from those areas are living in a sorry state. There are certain laws that we put in place that are not good at the end of the day.
As we are talking right now, if our Ministers were working handin-hand with the chiefs, we would not be having some of the challenges. It is not surprising that one of these days you will hear that a certain mountain fell down without the knowledge of our chiefs. There are certain powers that were taken from chiefs and given to youngsters. The people who are coming and taking our wealth are not from anywhere else but from Zimbabwe and we are allowing them to do that.
In Marange, people were removed from their homes and placed in desert areas where they do not have anything because of people who want to reap and eat what they did not sow. I think this august House should return all the powers to the chiefs. I am pleading with you Madam President. The post of Chief and headman are now being held by one person and that is killing our nation. Right now, as Members of Parliament, we are living in trouble because we have not even been given our allowances but a lot of diamonds were mined in Marange.
We want to thank this Committee which brought out the light. There are other Committees which are not bringing out the truth that they would have found on the ground but if all of us would take the example of this committee it would help us. I was also thinking that way back, even if someone was to steal a bottle of water they would be sentenced accordingly but these days there is nothing like that. Anyone who steals is not judged and that means we are impeding the progress of our own nation. I am pleading with the august House that this is our last hope and we should return the chief’s powers. I was also thinking that each and every Minister should work with chiefs in their area for progress’s sake because we have a lot of wealth but we are bringing people from outside to come and mine while we are left in poverty. These people who are mining black granite are working with people in this country and they would have been allowed. There is a lot of corruption there but the people in those areas are living in abject poverty. The people of this nation are struggling; it is very painful. With these few words Madam President, I thought it was important that I should add my voice on this report. Thank you.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I move that Order of the Day, Number 2 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 3 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE CONSTITUTION
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees (SDCs) and School Development Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Madam President, I wish to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo who has raised these very serious matters relating to my Ministry. Indeed, the House was seized with debating these matters. I wish to advice that as of now, the Ministry is busy aligning the Education Act to the Constitution and I would want Hon. Senators to engage with the Bill when it comes to Senate with the realistic prospect of contributing to the wholesome development of our education system.
As it stands, debating as it is put here is really debating on a matter that has originated in the social media, which has no legal force and is really wasting Hon. Senators’ time. So, I will bring the Bill and that would then become a substantive issue for debate. Thank Madam President.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you very much Madam President
for allowing me to respond to the wise words from the Minister. Can the Minister assure us that so far no funds have been transferred from the SDAs to the Government School Fund and that there is no need for us to panic - until such time as we have debated the Bill on Education and we have agreed that the money can be so transferred? If the money has already been transferred before debate, then I do not think that would be wasting our time. Thank you Madam President.
HON. DR. DOKORA: Hon. President of the Senate, I actually want Hon. Senators to debate the Bill so that I can then use the substantive issues in the amended Bill to craft the Statutory Instruments that flow from it to guide the operations of the Minister. I have come here on several occasions to seek the participation of Hon. Senators. There is no way in which I would avoid the House when in fact I am going out of my way to ensure that we all put our best brains on the table so that we can ensure that the evolution of our education sector is wholesome. We have got a Statutory Instrument that governs SDCs and a Statutory Instrument that governs SDAs and these are separate instruments which we are trying to harmonize in the Bill. So, we must debate those issues first. I have no legal instrument to transfer the money. Thank you. I therefore move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the alignment of the Electoral Act to the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the first report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF STATELESSNESS
IN AFRICA
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the adoption of the of a Draft Protocol on the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights on the right to nationality and the eradication of statelessness in Africa.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion on statelessness regarding people in Zimbabwe. When we talk of statelessness, there are many people, especially in southern Africa who are roaming around stateless and Zimbabwe has not been spared. Zimbabwe is one of the countries that can be used in eradicating this statelessness of individuals who do not belong to any country.
When we talk of somebody who is very stateless, there are many reasons why people end up being stateless. One will be running away from civil unrest in their country of origin and they seek refuge in other countries. Unfortunately, during the period of fleeing from the civil unrest, they leave behind all their identification and travel documents as they will be in a hurry in a bid to save their lives. When they reach the refugee camps, they will have run away from their Governments and homes where they had citizenship. They will not be in possession of identification documents such as birth certificates and identification cards and as a result, even their children lose their citizenship because their parents are stateless.
The other reason why some people are stateless is that we have some people who voluntarily leave their countries of origin and migrate to other countries. When they get there, they work, live and marry illegally and children borne out of such unions will be stateless. Their whole lineage will be thus affected and not benefit from any benefits found in that country because they are stateless.
In Zimbabwe, we have children who were left behind by their parents who went to the diaspora in search of greener pastures. These children are classified as orphans of parents in the diaspora. These children may also suffer statelessness as it destroys the formative values of human beings. We are calling upon the countries of the world to eradicate statelessness. Let me talk of Zimbabwe, we have people living in the diaspora and some of them left this country in a hurry and do not have proper travel documentation. The media says there are a lot of Zimbabwean refugees in South Africa and people suffer whenever there is unrest because they are stateless.
All countries have to work towards eradicating statelessness and one of the things that we are advocating for in order to curb statelessness is for countries to live peacefully and harmoniously. We urge all Governments to listen to the grievances of their nationals in order to maintain peace and harmony in their countries. All leaders should listen to their people. When people from peaceful countries go in search of greener pastures, they do so with requisite documentation and even the spouses can follow without any hassles. Even when they stay in foreign countries, they will be able to obtain proper documentation and their children also stand to benefit. We should have peaceful countries.
Let me talk of countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Mozambique. We have refugees from these countries and some of them are arrested due to lack of proper identification documents. We have people who have been arrested for illegally entering and living in Zimbabwe. It is not the responsibility of the Zimbabwean Government to issue these illegal immigrants with identification documents. When these stateless people are arrested in Zimbabwe, their repatriation process should be expedited so that they acquire proper documentation in their countries of origin.
When these illegal immigrants are arrested and imprisoned. We will be feeding and taking care of them. When they are in the prisons, they will be benefiting from our economy as they will be feeding on the tax payer’s money instead of us just focusing on our own nationals who are inmates. Therefore, we need to make it easy for our Zimbabwean nationals to acquire birth certificates, national identities and passports in order to eradicate statelessness. People fail to acquire these documents because of the long route of processing them. Some of the requirements are so circuitous that people cannot get the documents. For example, a new child is born in a hospital, the documents necessary should be obtained at that particular hospital but we have a lot of protocols and processes which make it difficult for anybody to acquire an ID card or even a passport. We have people moving out of the country without the proper documentation because of the round - about route which you follow in acquiring these documents. We have heard people illegally crossing for example, into South Africa; crossing the Limpopo River and they face problems when they get there. They can even be devoured by crocodiles in the river. The worst part of it is that when they get to that country, they will become Stateless people because they do not have proper documentation.
I plead with this august House to craft a law that will make it easy for people to acquire documents so that they do not become Stateless. Zimbabwe was one of the countries which used to be highly recommended because of the processes of acquiring the documents. Our President was number one in signing when they were writing down these signatures. The first was the President of Uganda and the second was the President of Zimbabwe, as a result, let us guard this jealously. Let us not let our President down because he is fighting hard for people to acquire these documents. Let us remove all those hurdles in acquiring these essential documents. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Thank you Mr. President. I also wish to
thank Hon. Sen. Timveos and the seconder of the motion. Mr. President, the report makes a sorry reading. It is not just those affected with HIV/AIDS in the higher institutions, our children are suffering. They do not have adequate provisions in terms of accommodation and pocket money.
Mr. President, I think I should talk about accommodation, maybe in a comparative manner with other institutions where I have been to. I do not want to talk about where I have not been. I have been to North
America and Britain. Education, yes, they pay but they also get grants. Your local council, board, wherever you come from, wherever you are going to, the system is so well organised that there is a grant or money for you. When you get there, you go to the Bezel. For example, you come from Leads and that is where you are going for your university, you are therefore advised that you will be coming from home and in the final year, that is when you can get into the halls of residence when you would have become mature and serious with your studies. If you come from elsewhere, from a different country, they will also advise you that in the first year, get into the halls of residents because you do not know anything about the environment, you do not know how much they will charge you and they will call these new students ‘digs’. They will reap you off and then you will have problems and will not be able to concentrate on your studies.
However, the bottom line is that they must have adequate money in terms of catering. Again, it is comparative; I will also go a little bit into the history of our universities. I have been to the University of
Zimbabwe but it has since changed. There are either three or four places that you can go and eat with the money your council would have given you – your grant. You would be having sufficient money for the term. The Students Union I was with had catering facilities. In all the halls of residence, there is also catering. The halls of residence were constructed in such a way that you can actually prepare your food, at every level; there will be provisions for cooking. You can buy your food, put it in the fridge and nobody will steal it. So, you would be adequately supplied to study and you are well fed. You would have reasonably enough money.
Now, the situation is that the few institutions I have been to, accommodation is quite a headache for the students. If he comes from Mberengwa going to the University of Zimbabwe, the halls of residence are not enough. ‘Digs’, as they call them, private accommodation is quite a headache even in the halls of residence themselves. The universities here were constructed like boarding schools, there is nowhere to cook, and they were meant that students should go to the dining to eat. Yes, it made sense, there were white universities and there were very few blacks. They constructed them in such a way that everything was provided for by the community, it was more like a five star hotel. The dining at the University of Zimbabwe, when I went there immediately after independence, the meat they ate was brilliant, the catering, everything there was just up to standard because the community catered for it. Right now, when we came in, there would be somebody who does what they call supply cooking and charges a commercial rate. The commercial rate is so expensive, the students cannot afford it, hence the idea of HIV/AIDS.
The Chairperson who actually tabled this report, I could not believe it, students said ndinenge ndatowana ‘blesser’ anondichengeta. It is really sad, I cannot send my daughter or my son to a university to go and practice some very immoral acts – to become prostitutes, because there is no money. Mr. President, it is so sad. I think our system of education must be re-looked at, the grant must come back. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA), the Senate
adjourned at Half past Three o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 15th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the
Day, Numbers 1 to 12 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE 6TH
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE BY THE ISLAMIC CONSULTATIVE ASSEMBLY OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF
IRAN
HON. PARADZA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwe delegation to the 6th International Conference by the Islamic Consultative Assembly of the Islamic Republic of Iran, in support of the Palestinian Uprising, held in Teheran in Iran from the 21st to the 22nd of February, 2017.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: I second.
1.0 Introduction
HON. PARADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker, at the invitation
of the Islamic Consultative Assembly (Parliament) of the Islamic
Republic of Iran, the Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Advocate
- F. Mudenda, accompanied by two members of the Portfolio
Committee on Foreign Affairs, myself (Committee Chairperson) and
Hon. P. Misihairabwi-Mushonga (Member), attended the 6th International Conference on Palestine, held in Teheran, from February 21-22, 2017.
The delegation was welcomed at Imam Khomeini International Airport by Hon. Alaeddin Broujerdi, Chairman of National Security and Foreign Policy in the Iranian Parliament.
The Conference whose theme was “Together Supporting
Palestine” was organised and sponsored by the Iranian Parliament.
More than 700 delegates from 70 countries were in attendance.
This two-day Conference was organised and hosted by the Islamic Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Iran and was attended by Speakers of Parliaments, Members of Parliaments, leaders of resistance movements, scholars, foreign Ambassadors accredited to Iran, leaders of political parties, representatives of non-governmental organisations, political and religious groups as well as representatives of various media organisations.
2.0 Objectives of the 6th Conference
The history of the Palestinian struggle against its illegal occupation by Israel is well-documented. Therefore, the major objective of the 6th Conference was to mobilise the entire Muslim and Arab world to unite against Israel in support of a free self-rule Palestine.
In addition, the Conference wanted to solicit further support for Palestine from non-Muslim but pro-Palestinian governments and other organisations from across the globe. This is largely because the rise of an assortment of terrorist groupings operating in the Middle East had created a major detraction from the Palestinian crisis. As a result, the Palestinian question had literally disappeared off the radar in terms of international geo-politics.
As it is, within the Middle-East and Arab power houses, the Palestinian crisis no longer has patrons and champions as was the case prior to 1967. Therefore, the 6th International Conference on Palestine was meant to revive or rather to remind the entire world that the
Palestinian issue still remains unresolved despite a series of United
Nations resolutions including the famous Oslo Accord, which came up with a two-state solution – with Israel and Palestinians existing side by side in peace and harmony as neighbours.
However, Iran, as a major power within the Middle East, and with support from some militia groups like Hams and Hezbollar, is not in support of the two-state agreement and is demanding the unconditional liberation of Palestine. Radical armed groups in the Middle-East, Hamas included, want to wipe Israel from the map. Hamas, which won elections more than 10 years ago but never ruled Palestine, is now confined to an enclave called Gaza Strip where the group has fought brutal wars with Israel in 2008, 2012 and 2014 trying to reclaim the lost Palestine territories.
The Oslo Accord, which seems to be the only realistic solution to the Palestinian question, does not attract consensus among the interested grouping or countries in the Middle-East, hence the escalation of the conflict.
3.0 Conference Proceedings
3.1 Welcome Remarks by the Speaker of Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Dr. Ali Larijani.
The Speaker of the Islamic Consultative Assembly (Parliament) Dr. Ali Larijani welcomed all the delegates to the Conference, especially his counterparts from across the world, including parliamentary delegates, clerics, scholars and other freedom-seeking activists from the region.
He called on all the Muslim world to support the struggle in
Palestine. Dr. Larijani also informed the Conference that the Iranian Parliament has since passed a law to offer support for the Palestinian people. This, he said, was why his Parliament was hosting such a conference for the 6th time.
He reminded the delegates that the Conference was being held at a time when the situation with Palestine was fast deteriorating, with Israel committing more atrocities against innocent Palestinian people as well as constructing illegal settlements within the Palestinian territories, especially in the West Bank and the Holy City of Jerusalem.
Dr. Larijani also told the conference that Israel was supporting and sponsoring terrorist groups in order to destabilise the Muslim countries within the region. The creation of these terrorist groups had resulted in serous tensions among Moslem countries along the Middle East and beyond.
3.2 Address by Iran Supreme Leader, The Grand Ayatollah
Ali Khamenei
The Islamic Republic of Iran’s Supreme Leader, Grand Ayatollah
Ali Khamenei officially opened the two-day conference while the Iranian President, His Excellency Hassan Rouhani, presided over the closing ceremony.
In his speech, The Supreme Leader pointed out that the Palestinian issue was not only a bilateral conflict between Palestine and the Zionist regime of Israel, but was in fact a confrontation between the entire
Muslim world versus Israel.
He reminded the delegates that the Palestinian crisis was the root cause of the current conflict within the Arab and Muslim countries in the Middle East.
The Supreme Leader Ayatollah called on all Muslim countries to rally behind the struggle in Palestine and warned them against falling into divisive machinations by Israel and its Allies, especially the United States of America, through their sponsorship of artificial civil wars among Muslim and Arab nations. He said the creation of these civil conflicts within the region had resulted in the Palestinian crisis being rendered the least priority even at international fora.
The Liberation of Palestine should serve as a focal point for all Muslim and other freedom-seeking nations even if they hold different viewpoints and opinions. The Iranian Leader lamented that the history of Palestine was a sorrowful story as millions of Palestinians were now homeless or refugees in their own country. Thousand others have either been maimed or killed in defence of their motherland.
The Supreme Leader lamented that both the Muslim world and the international community had abandoned Palestine yet this crisis has a special priority in today’s world.
He reminded the conference that Israel continued to suppress the people of Palestine in a brutal manner, arresting several thousands, looting and murdering people, occupying the land that belongs to Palestine and building illegal settlements and in the process changing the complexion and identity of the Holy Cities like Jerusalem.
The Supreme leader called on the people of Palestine to continue with their resistance against the Zionist regime including mounting further uprisings until the total liberation of Palestine is achieved. Liberating and protecting Palestine and its Holy places by all means necessary, is a holy jihad for all Muslim countries, he said, adding that the time for compromises was over.
The Supreme Leader called on Palestinian groups that are collectively fighting for the liberation of their homeland to focus on the common enemy – Israel – and not to fight among themselves as this weakened their common objective.
3.3 Address by the Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon.
Advocate J.F. Mudenda.
In his address to the conference, the Speaker condemned the Israeli Government for its continued violation of all UN resolutions ever since the creation of the Zionist State way back in 1948.
The Speaker told the delegates that Zimbabwe fully supported the struggle in Palestine and was also in total support of the Oslo Accord which calls for the creation of two states. Zimbabwe has since recognised Palestine as an independent State and is host to a fullyfledged Palestinian Embassy in Harare.
The Speaker also gave a chronology of events, mostly atrocities committed by succeeding Israeli governments towards the Palestinian population for about 70 years, including the current construction of illegal settlements within the Palestinian territory.
He called on the international community to now refocus its efforts on resolving the crisis by taking ‘a concrete plan of action, once and for all’ instead of relying on UN resolutions or conferences whose outcome are always frustrated or ignored by Israel.
The Speaker paid tribute to Iran for its unwavering support for the Palestinian cause. This, however, has resulted in Iran enduring a cocktail of sanctions imposed on it by the US and its European allies. He also lamented the double standards approach taken by the US and its allies to clandestinely side with Israel against Palestine.
The Speaker concluded by calling for the setting up of a standing committee to spear-head campaign for the liberation of Palestine saying the hope now lies in intensive and robust Parliamentary intervention as UN resolutions and other solutions remain un-implemented up to this day.
3.4 Conference Declaration in Support of the Palestinian
Intifada
During the conference, several heads of delegations presented their views in the plenary, conveying solidarity messages in support of the Palestinian liberation.
The conference set up five committees that drew up various resolutions. These five clusters were;
- Committee for Parliaments and Assemblies.
- Committee for Palestinian and pro-resistance movements.
- Committee for the youths.
- Committee for pro-Palestine NGOs.
- Committee for Political Affairs and final declaration drafting.
Madam Speaker, as you will recall, reports and resolutions from these five committees were submitted to the plenary and the outcomes were consolidated into the final communiqué.
3.5 The Final Communiqué
- The conference paid tribute to Iran’s Supreme Leader Grand
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s speech which set the tone for the 6th International Conference on Palestine.
- Overally, the conference resolved that the Palestinian question shall be considered as the first and foremost priority for the Muslim world and Arab state including other progressive friends of Palestine.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have been listening very attentively to the report being read out by our Chairperson of the Committee, but I am not so sure if I am following correctly because each time he is referring to Muslim, I do not know because I am trying to understand who ‘Muslin’ is because you are saying Muslin.
HON. PARADZA: It is pronunciation - Muslim. That is how we do it in the English language, Sir – [Laughter.]-
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you can as
well get a chance to debate.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: No, no, I wanted to follow because it
was not clear. I hope you...
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, address the Chair. Hon. Member, take your seat.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much, Hon. Madam
Speaker. I hope that the Hon. Member is going to correct the pronunciation for other members to also follow appropriately. Thank you very much.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is what he did the first time.
HON. PARADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is not
‘moslem’, it is Muslim.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think what you need to explain is that wherever you say ‘muslim’, you mean Muslim nation so that everyone understands.
HON. PARADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker.
- It was also resolved that the intifada (uprising) and other forms of resistance shall be the only effective way of dealing with Israel that would force it to vacate the occupied territories as all other methods are considered secondary.
- Efforts were to be made to amicably resolve any differences among Muslim nations in light of the spread of Israelisponsored terrorism in the Middle East.
- The conference denounced Israel for its destruction of the Palestinian economy, including its cruel besieging of the Gaza Strip, currently home to Hamas.
The conference condemned the latest moves by Israel to construct illegal Jewish settlements within the Palestinian territories especially the West Bank.
The conference also condemned Israel for its destruction of
Palestinian holy cities and other religious sites dotted across Palestine.
The conference resolved that Israeli authorities should be tried at the International Criminal Court of Justice for carrying out genocide atrocities including the massacre of Palestinian children.
The conference also condemned the current US administration for openly supporting Israel by proposing to relocate the American Embassy from Tel-Aviv to East Jerusalem.
3.6 Closing Address by the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, H.E. Dr. Hassan Rouhani
President Rouhani, in his closing remarks to the conference, paid tribute to all the Palestinian martyrs, those injured and all those who have sacrificed their lives for the liberation of Palestine. Since 1948, he said, succeeding Palestinian generations have lived miserable lives as displaced people and refugees in different parts of the world with suffering, displacement, torture and martyrdom as their only heritage.
The Iranian President impressed upon the conference delegates that it was the duty of both the Muslim world and the international community to stop Israel from the on-going systematic killings of Palestinian people. According to President Rouhani, the only option available for Palestinians to free themselves from Israeli occupation was through uprisings (intifada) as all other options have failed to resolve the issue.
President Rouhani lamented that some Muslim and Arab nations were working in cahoots with Israel in destabilising the Middle East instead of helping to stop the current civil wars ravaging the region. All these unnecessary wars were benefitting the Zionist regime at the expense of Palestine. He concluded by committing Iran to the liberation of Palestine using all the available resources at its disposal and called on all progressive Muslim and Arab nations to do the same.
4.0. Meeting with Iranian Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for Arab and African Affairs, Hon. Hossein Jaberi Ansari
The Speaker, Hon. J.F. Mudenda, accompanied by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga and Ambassador Nicholas Kitikiti paid a courtesy call on Hon. Ansari, the Iranian Deputy Minister of Foreign
Affairs in charge of Arab and African Affairs.
Minister Ansari commended Zimbabwe for its interest in Palestine and expressed gratitude that the Speaker had accepted the invitation to attend the conference. He highlighted that the objective of the conference was to re-mobilise the international community for it not to forget the Palestinian crisis.
In his response, the Speaker paid tribute to the Iranian Government for its hospitality indicating, however, that it was his hope that a clear plan of action would emerge from the conference. The proposed plan of action would include, among other things, the formation of a working committee comprising the various representatives of Parliaments who were in attendance at the conference.
This Committee would be mandated to undertake the following:
- Ensuring the speedy implementation of conference resolutions.
- Engaging with the Israeli Parliament with the view of understanding the position of the Israeli Legislature.
- Consider other possible avenues for engagement with the Israeli authorities.
- Encouraging unity of purpose among the Palestinian groups.
- Act as an advocacy voice on Palestine at various regional, continental and international fora.
5.0 Meeting with the Speaker of the Islamic Consultative
Assembly of Iran, H.E. Dr. Ali Larijani
Dr. Larijani, who was chair and convenor of the Conference, commended our Speaker Hon. J.F. Mudenda for delivering a very powerful speech to the conference. He hoped that the delegation’s visit to Iran would assist in improving and further expand bilateral relations between the two Parliaments.
He informed the Zimbabwean delegation that the Palestinian crisis was a complex one and therefore, what was needed was total support from all corners of the world. He, however, lamented that while most Muslim countries were rich and had money, they were reluctant to use it on Palestine.
Dr. Larijani agreed with his Zimbabwean counterpart’s proposal of setting up a working committee that would follow up on all conference resolutions and other issues related to resolving the Palestinian crisis.
In response, Hon. Mudenda thanked his counterpart for inviting him and his delegation to the conference which he described as a “huge eye opener” to the Palestinian conflict. While he admitted that the Palestinian question was a complex issue, however, a compromise way forward must be found in trying to resolve it.
The Speaker encouraged his Iranian counterpart to continue leading the conversation on Palestine and assured him that the Parliament of Zimbabwe was fully behind those efforts as this was the only way available in achieving a lasting solution to the 70 year old conflict.
His wish was to see all the conference resolutions translated into practical action and he advocated for the setting up of a working committee to follow up on all the resolutions and monitor other regional efforts.
Hon. Mudenda concluded by assuring Dr. Larijani that both the Government and Parliament of Zimbabwe including the entire citizenry were in total support of all efforts that would eventually lead to the liberation of Palestine. He also invited his counterpart to visit Zimbabwe sometime in future and to bring along potential Iranian investors to scout for business opportunities within the local economy. I might as well add that an Iranian delegation is coming here from the Iranian Parliament at the end of July.
6.0 Meeting with Hon. Alaeddin Broujerdi, Chairman of the
National Security and Foreign Policy in the Iran Parliament
On the sidelines of the conference, I had the opportunity of meeting my Iranian counterpart, Hon. Broujerdi, who chairs the Committee on National Security and Foreign Policy in the Parliament of
Iran.
During our meeting, I thanked the Government of Iran for inviting us to the conference and I also re-emphasised Zimbabwe’s commitment towards the liberation of Palestine. On behalf of my Committee, I pledged to continue engaging our Iranian colleagues on all matters related to supporting Palestinian struggle from Israeli occupation.
I also took the opportunity to discuss several issues pertaining to the enhancement of trade between our two countries and appealed to him to use his offices in promoting Zimbabwe as a business and tourist destination. In the same vein, I also invited him and members of his Committee to visit Zimbabwe as a way of cementing our bilateral relations including trade between our two countries.
In his response, Hon. Broujerdi said he was happy that Zimbabwe supported the struggle in Palestine and urged us to continue speaking against the evil deeds and other atrocities that were being perpetuated by
Israel.
Hon. Broujerdi accepted our invitation for him and his Committee to visit Zimbabwe in July. He also sends his warm regards to H.E. the President, Cde R.G. Mugabe and wished him good health.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, I think
you should summarise your report because it is too long.
HON. PARADZA:
7.0. Conclusion
In conclusion Madam Speaker, the delegation wishes to record its gratitude to the Islamic Consultative Assembly of Iran, for inviting and also fully sponsoring the round trip to Teheran and back including the pre-travel assistance rendered by the Iranian Embassy in Harare. I thank you Madam Speaker.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO AN ANNUAL MEETING OF
PARLIAMENTARIANS FOR GLOBAL ACTION ZIMBABWE
CHAPTER
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that Hon. Members of the Parliamentarians for Global Action Zimbabwe Chapter, are invited to the annual meeting on Wednesday, 21st June, 2017 at 1200 hours in the Government Caucus Room. New members are welcome.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I
wish to commendt the efforts by our delegation as led by the Chairperson in the report he has given, the Hon. Speaker being the leader of that delegation. I wish to however, just underscore two fundamental points as regards our position at an international level in terms of the Israelis/Palestinian conflict. It is my humble submission that it would appear that in our scope and perspective as a country, we have taken a view that is, in my humble opinion, very misbegotten and misconceived because we have chosen to side with one country against the other.
It is good to sympathise with a cause but the two State solutions to do with the resolution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict cannot be resolved by choosing to side with one partner. It takes two to tango and we have chosen to interact with just one side – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – From a diplomatic point of view, it puts the country in a very invidious position because then we are not able to be an honest empire when it comes to resolving the issues that are affecting these countries. We need to engage both the Palestinian authorities and also the Israel authorities so that whatever we are suggesting is something that is not only advancing justice, advancing the issue of geo-politics that is progressive particularly in the context of the modern world. So, that is my first point. Our dimension and our approach is supposed to be revised to make sure that we are alive and sensitive to the various considerations that are supposed to be put in place particularly in the context of the two State solutions that has to be advanced.
My second point which is also equally important is the way we have scoped and sculptured our diplomatic orientation as a country. We need to move away from pursuing politics without understanding the economics of it. Whatever interest we are going to pursue internationally, we must allow the flag to follow trade. We must allow business to define our politics and our engagement. It would appear that at times it is more to do with slogans; it is more to do with ideological enclaves that are not advancing our economic interest. So, let economic interests determine where we are going to erect and set up our flag so that at the end of the day, it is about Zimbabwe’s interest economically and not the politics of it which may not even advantage or advance our interest as a country. So, national interest is supposed to be identified in the context, not just of politics, but also in the context of economic consideration. When we look at these issues, we need to think Zimbabwe first and think economics first, so that whatever makes economic sense is what we are then going to adopt and advance as a country.
Having said that Hon. Speaker, I hope that the authorities in Zimbabwe are going to revisit and revise their orientation which I think is highly politically charged flying orientation but is devoid of the underpinnings and foundational considerations of the material consideration that are supposed to be put in place. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the team that went to Iran – [AN. HON. MEMBER:
Taurisaka tinzwe.] – and to say that I am hopeful that the trade relations between Iran and Zimbabwe were concretised by this trip. I am aware that there is considerable trade that is happening already and the politics between Iran and Israel, I think is probably beyond resolution by
Zimbabwe. I am quite hopeful that the trade between Zimbabwe and Iran will continue to grow from strength to strength. I am aware that there is trade concerning tractors and there is a possibility of trading in oil which is of interest to us. There is considerable interest in our tobacco by the Iranians and I think those at the moment, are matters of considerable interest to us.
I am happy to hear that the Hon. Speaker advanced matters of trade which is of interest to us at the moment. The politics behind between Israel, Iran and Palestine, I think are a matter that has been raging for many years. They are of course of interest to us but I think we are too small a nation and our priorities are too huge at the moment. We need to priorities matters of trade and advance the interest of Zimbabwe in areas of trade and I think the Hon. Speaker was correct to advance matters of trade. I want to congratulate the Hon. Speaker and our team that was in Iran for advancing matters of trade. I thank you.
*HON. MUFUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. First and foremost, I would like to thank the Committee on Foreign Affairs led by Hon.
Paradza that went to the conference in Iran which was led by the Hon.
Speaker which had to do with the freedom of Palestine. From ab initio, Zimbabwe has been supporting Palestine from the time it was led by the late Yasser Arafat. We have always been like that in terms of economic and military transactions with that country.
There is also another speaker who made reference to Israel, that Zimbabwe should differentiate economic issues and political issues; that is very correct. In terms of trade, we are acquiring drip irrigation and other state of the art technology from Israel. So, in that regard, Zimbabwe knows it has to balance its political and economical interest. In fact, Zimbabwe is trading very well with Israel but if we were to look back in terms of politics of Palestine and Israel, the people of Palestine have shown that they are being heavily oppressed by the Israelis. There was once an Arabic league and it seems to look at the military issues as regards that particular country. I have observed that Arabic countries such as Egypt receive aid and as a result, they may not be willing to represent other Arabic countries. If we look at other countries like Palestine, they are unable to do that. They Egyptians have not come up with canals that they use for smuggling goods. Zimbabwe may be steering a middle course but it should take a stance as regards the oppression and that such oppression should not be left unabated.
Remember in 2013, there was a Member of Parliament or a leader called Galloway. He came up with the Gaza Frontier and he wanted to bring food to the people of Palestine who were starving, but Israel intervened and stopped that. So, other countries should also intervene so that Israel cannot oppress the other Arabic countries.
The rich and affluent Jews in Europe went to resettle in Israel. Israel is being used as a springboard by the Europeans in order to serve their own interests. If Syria wants oil, they would use Israel. If they want to attach Iran or Iraq or other Arab countries that are in the Middle East, Israel is used for terrorist activities. So, Zimbabwe should see that in a different light as opposed to the issue of the economy. Economic issues and military or terrorism issues are two different things. People should be able to turn their own wheel.
I was once surprised that there is the International Criminal Court that deals with criminals, genocides or atrocities against humanity, but Israel is killing people without anyone stepping in when the starving people are being killed. They are not summoning the Israeli leader to the International Court of Justice to answer these charges. So, we observe that such matters should actually be condemned.
There is also the country of Morocco which is being used by European countries in the same mode as Israel because the Morocco does not want to unite with the people of Zimbabwe in defending its sovereignty. We need to look at Israel properly, although there were resolutions that were made on the State of Nation Address of Palestine, other countries have not properly dealt with Israel so that they would desist from oppressing the Palestinians as regards the issues of economy or wealth, medication and such other issues.
We thank you Hon. Paradza for your trip with the Speaker. We are trading with Iran. Iran is now involved with Palestine and Israel to try and come up with a solution to the issues concerning Palestine and Israel. Iran is playing a pivotal role; is an arbitrator so that there will be an end to terrorist activities by Israel. In terms of oil, farming and textile industries, because they have such companies such as Modzone in Zimbabwe, I believe that we should be cooperating with them and work with them. Iran is very good in terms of irrigation. As a result of the land reform activities that we have conducted, if we were to bring and tap into this expertise, Zimbabwe will be in a better place in terms of irrigation farming. Coupled with the expertise that we have, Zimbabwe can then become self sustainable.
They also have an advanced solar technology and Zimbabwe can tap into that. They are advanced in terms of ICT. Your trip, I believe brought us a lot of knowledge that we can tap into and use as a country for the benefit of our Zimbabwe. If such trips could continuously be done and expertise can be harvested from those trips so that we are able to manufacture our own drugs because we should have our own expertise, whether we are manufacturing medicines for HIV/AIDS or family planning. We should also be able to manufacture machinery for irrigation. Thank you Mr. Speaker for granting me this opportunity.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I listened to the report very carefully and I got very worried. The problem of Palestine and Israel is a problem between brothers, because they have the same genealogy; for those who understand the Bible. They are both sons of Abraham. When two brothers fight, the fight is so vicious. As a foreigner, you cannot intervene. The problem that we have as Parliament is that, this trip was fully funded. When people fully fund a trip, they want to use you and when you write a report, you write what they want you to hear. Had this trip been sponsored by the Government of Zimbabwe, we would have gone there with an open mind and would be independent in our reporting.
Zimbabwe is so insignificant in the scheme of things and we must be very careful when we choose our friends. Do we choose them on emotion or we choose them rationally. Mr. Speaker, there used…-
[HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Hon. Zwizwai, I respect you.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, we used to have what was called the Non-Aligned Movement; countries that would look into a problem and they do not take sides. That is what I think for Zimbabwe is key. Zimbabwe’s economy is on the brink. Essentially the economy of Zimbabwe is collapsing and whatever we do or say, it must be with the economy of this country in mind. Donald Trump has made it very clear that America comes first. When Donald Trump chooses his friends, he chooses them on the basis of what economic value they give to the United States. It is about economic interests and nothing else.
Mr. Speaker, I do not understand for the life of me, what siding with Iran will help us. Iran is siding with Syria. Look at what is happening in Syria at the moment. The President of Syria is a person who cannot even visit a country like Zimbabwe. There are bombings day-in, day-out; innocent civilians and these are people that are sponsored by Iran. Iran is a country that has sponsored this trip of the Speaker of Parliament and Members of this Parliament and they have come back with the report. They are giving an open-ended support to Iran.
Israel is a friend of the United States. The United States is the
United Nations. For Zimbabwe to prosper, we need the support of the
United States. That is why we cry about sanctions all the time. When
America says I cannot play with you Zimbabwe, that is why we cry. If America does not want to play with us, why do we not say America you can go to hell, we are going to play with Iran? What is Iran going to give us? Balance of payment support comes from the United States. Mr. Speaker, investment comes from the United States; investment does not come from Iran and does not come from Palestine. I happened to be watching television one day when the former President of the United States, Barak Obama spoke about the problem of Israel and Palestine at a press conference. After he gave his view of the problem of Israel and
Palestine, the Israeli Prime Minister told him that, “excuse me Mr. President, I need to assist you. Can you sit there quietly and I will tell you”. When he spoke, I could see that even the President of the United States was at see, because this problem is so deep rooted and is so complex. A small delegation of three Zimbabwean MPs and a Speaker cannot understand it. It is beyond us. This problem is far beyond us and the capacity to comprehend the problem between Israel and the Palestinians is beyond an MP from Hwange. It is far beyond the Speaker of this Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, in terms of technology, the Governor of the Reserve
Bank of Israel was born in Zimbabwe, went to Milton High in Bulawayo and I met him in Switzerland. I am sure Hon. Cross knows about him and he is Jewish. I spoke to him and he said, the Israeli economy is such that if you go to Israel with your economic knowledge, you are not able to run the Israel economy. They have no land, it is a desert, yet in terms of agriculture, they are a leading nation. It is Israel that brought the technology of Drip irrigation into this country and people that brings us that kind of technology into a country like Zimbabwe; we must be able to support them. I am not saying Zimbabwe should take the side of Israel but that Zimbabwe should remain nonaligned. Whatever considerations we have, I would plead with the Speaker of the National Assembly of the Zimbabwe Parliament, Advocate Jacob Francis Mudenda that whatever you say at international fora, you must have the economic interests of Zimbabwe at heart. Political interest Mr. Speaker, do not give us food.
Mr. Speaker, let us put our mouth where our money is. I would say, Hon. Paradza, thank you very much for the visit and thank you very much for accepting to go to that conference. I would like you to convey my thanks to the Speaker of Parliament, but plead with him that Hon. Member of Parliament from Mabvuku/Tafara says Mr. Speaker, the problem of Israel and Palestine is beyond us and we cannot understand it. It goes back to history. Going to this conference and coming here siding with Iran and Palestine, Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is good for this country. Let us remain nonaligned and focus on the economic interests of the country. I think that is what we must do. I thank you Mr. Speaker for your time.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me first thank the Speaker and the team that accompanied him to Iran to attend this very important meeting. Mr. Speaker, we should not forget as Zimbabweans that we were born from war. Zimbabwe went through difficult life in this country, we had to fight for our independence and we had to fight for our freedom. The Palestinians were with us. We were together in the trenches and we cannot leave Palestine today because we have no economic interest in Palestine. We fought together with Arafat who is not alive today. The life that is being led by Palestinian people today is worse than the life that we went through in Rhodesia. As Zimbabweans, I am surprised to hear our colleagues talking about the almighty America because America has strength and is rich - therefore we should befriend with America because of that. We should have principles and should be guided by these principles as a nation and as human beings. We should feel for others. We know what the Palestinians are going through – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Muri kutirova imimi munomu. Moda kufira vanhu vekuIsrael?] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, I think that is too much.
HON. MARUMAHOKO: It is not an issue that we should take lightly here Mr. Speaker. Where there is a conflict and where two nations are fighting, naturally, you do not side with the one that is stronger. Naturally, you side with the weaker side. You sympathise with the weaker side, therefore it is logical that Zimbabwe had to side with the Palestinians. The Israelis get support from America and are an untouchable nation as they view the weaknesses of Palestine. For us here as Zimbabweans, to stand and compare the support that Israel is getting from America, and we know what America is doing today – it is a bully. They can walk all over any country and do what they want today. Is it what we want as human beings in this world? Is that peace?
Would that encourage peace? Not at all.
I did not have the intention to stand up and talk but what I got from the Members who stood up from the other side - supporting Israel and supporting America, yet just yesterday, we lost Gaddafi in Libya. An innocent leader of Africa, a man who was trying to make his country prosper, because he differed with America, Gaddafi was killed, just like that. The whole world went quiet, it is shameful to hear other Members supporting nations that behave in that manner. We should sympathise with Palestine. I happen to have had a visit with my Chairman here to Palestine and what I saw there, reminds me of the days that we went through in Rhodesia, the days that we would not want to talk about. It is so painful to hear a Member, an African for that matter, born from the struggle, stand here and support American policies.
We have the Arab league Mr. Speaker that is mediating between on the conflict between Israel and Palestine, they need to be given support and that is the foundation of the support. That is where the support is starting from, these visits, not that they have been funded; but you need to have first hand information. You need to go and visit there and get that first hand information that you may use it to assist the two people who are fighting. You do not get it from nowhere.
I thought I would stand to air my view on this issue which is quite touchy. When some of us stand up here, it is very touchy, we went through this, it is not an easy thing. I thank you.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I wish to start by thanking the Chairperson of the Foreign Affairs Committee for the report he has presented on their visit to Palestine. In the context of that report, I also need to flag certain issues, which I hope the Chairperson can address when he responds to this debate.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to start by saying that the Palestinian question is a very complex question and it appears not to be going away. It is deep rooted and seated. The genesis of the Palestinian question is of course, the occupation of Palestine or Palestinian lands by the Israelites, in particular the occupation of West Bank and Gaza Strip. That is the core of the problem. This side of the House is by no means supporting occupation or the Israeli settlements in Gaza and West Bank, we do not support that. We do not support imperialism or neocolonialism. We are a progressive political party.
At the same time, we have to understand Palestine in the context of the geo-politics of the Middle East. In terms of the geo-politics of the Middle East, it is now commonly agreed that to solve the Palestinian question, you need to adopt a two-state solution. I think that is the UN prescribed approach to dealing with the Palestinian question, a two state solution. What does a two-state solution mean? It means that the Israelis must withdraw from West Bank and Gaza Strip, but at the same time Palestine must also accept that Israel is now a geographical reality as opposed to its present thrust that we must destroy Israel from the globe.
I think a two-state solution is better. Let the two States exist side by side as sovereign states sharing Jerusalem as their capitals. I think that is an objective and pragmatic state rather than for us to be wishful thinking that Israel is going to disappear. No, it is not going to disappear.
I would urge the Chairperson of the Committee to pursue or advise this House about the merit of a two-state solution to the Israeli crisis so that withdrawal yes, and then establish two sovereign states which are recognised by the United Nations. To this end, I am happy that the UN has already started recognising Palestine. It has been given a seat in the World Health Organisation and other UN agencies. For me, that is a progressive realisation that we need a sovereign independent Palestine state. So the solution is not to take sides with one entity but let us advocate for sovereignty and the respect of the borders between
Palestine and Israel. For me, that is the step which we must pursue.
Beyond this approach Mr. Speaker Sir, I must pose it that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is now being overshadowed by a new geopolitical reality in the Middle East called terrorism. Now, because the world is now focusing on terrorism, the Palestinian question is gradually being overshadowed. In the fight against terrorism, you find that Iran, Qatar, Syria and Yemen are on one side. Whereas Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and other Middle Eastern countries are on the other side. So, Middle East has now become a powder keg of the world because there is a contestation now between Russia siding with Iran, Qatar, Yemen and Syria on the one hand and you have America siding with Saudi Arabia and other countries on the other. So, terrorism is now overtaking the Palestinian crisis in terms of global focus.
I would hope that in future trips; we factor in the new geo-politics of the region vis-a-vis terrorism because it has actually broadened the alliances, those which are pro-Iran and those that are pro-Saudi Arabia in that region. Let us not just take a narrow approach when dealing with the Palestinian question. It has a lot of ramifications as I have tried to demonstrate. Thank you very much.
HON. MLISWA: I want to thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio
Committee on Foreign Affairs, Hon. Kindness Paradza for his report.
Equally, I want to also agree with Hon. Mashakada on the approach. I think it is important that we observe the sovereignty of each country. I think that is very important. It is also important to put into consideration the power politics involved. We cannot achieve the intended progress if we do not understand the role of the USA in this.
We have seen the USA former President, Barack Obama coming into office but failing to deal with this situation. This is the most powerful nation in the world, the so called best democracy. Equally, we cannot leave the power of the Jews outside Israel. Israel is not powerful because of the Jews in Israel. Israel is powerful because of the Jews outside Israel. They control the world economy. Even here in Africa, if you go to South Africa, the Jews control the economy. You cannot go into power without having being endorsed by the Jews. This is the trend around the world and that is the reason why Israel is a bully. As small as they are, they are a bully – [HON. ZWIZWAI: So, we were endorsed by the bully.] –
Not only that, you also have to go beyond that and put into perspective the role Israel plays in the intelligence of world politics. For example Mossad, the intelligence arm of Israel, how they are involved in controlling the world. So, the world intelligence is controlled by Israel. America even relies on them. At the same time, we want to have a situation where we recognise boundaries. Hon. Dr. Mashakada is spot on in saying that we must recognise boundaries but, who mediates because when there is a conflict, there must be a mediator. No one is prepared to mediate because the most powerful people in the world, the Jews, are watching. Which side do you go and if you go on the wrong side, you withdraw. The current American President, Donald Trump has come in understanding the role that Israel plays. He wants to now, basically from a realistic point of view, say is Israel is right when Israel is not right.
In so doing, we will have had a situation where the United Nations Council has a role to play in terms of human rights violation. It is not good for them to focus on Africa alone when they cannot focus on countries which are right there. The role of the Middle East is critically important and what is the United Nations Security Council’s take on this? We have seen them at one point coming to deal with little Zimbabwe but now, in terms of Palestine, they seem not to know what to do, yet people are dying every day. So, do we have a situation where the world, because of who is who, allows certain people to kill and to violate other people’s rights and when it comes to Zimbabwe, they then move on. The aspect of this conflict is also territorial in that, you control through the territories that you have. The same way politically, we would also perceive things here.
Russia has been very quiet and I do not know where it is in this because Russia seems to be the only nation that can probably come in and deal with the situations. I think that they are able to adapt to the Mosad approach through KGB, the organisation which matches them but the silence of Russia which is a power house and part of the G7 is equally important. What is the position of the G7? We are now taking it further and my point is, we cannot really say that we have done justice to this without us considering the players of this. They are super powers and we must admit – what is the position of the super powers in this.
Equally, why are they not being involved? This report shows that Zimbabwe is adhering to the principle of human rights, not only in this but beyond Zimbabwe.
This report clearly gives us a plus in terms of us ensuring that there is democracy that prevails and human rights are respected. For me, it is very important that we remain focused equally on what we can do and how far we can go. It is important that through this, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is equally important because ultimately, that is the responsible authority in terms of this. Hon. Paradza must understand this; we do not see the Ministry of Foreign Affairs implementing any of your recommendations. That is the other problem that we have. Whilst this has been put together, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs does absolutely nothing to really follow up.
So, my point is that, whilst the Parliamentary Committee has done a sterling job, I do not see the Ministry responsible taking it beyond this House. That creates a problem. What is the role of Parliament? This is a time when Zimbabwe must be seen to be engaging and this engagement is necessitated by such reports which violate on people’s human rights. That equally helps Zimbabwe – we have a dent of not being sticklers for human rights. So to me, when we are seen to be doing this, it does help that it assists in the investment of the country.
The other reason we do not enjoy that investment is because people believe that we do not respect people’s rights and there is no rule of law. So to me, we have to be very consistent. It is not just about Israel but it is about the image that we portray to the international community, that we believe in human rights and as such we must be engaging further than Zimbabwe. So, I want to really commend this report but equally, the challenge lies in the responsible Ministries not being able to implement. We have the Minister of Foreign Affairs who hardly is here and it will be amiss of me not to mention that. I do not even see the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs to be part of this debate, sitting to listen and brief his superior. So, where are we going? The
Deputy Minister is not here to even listen to this important report which Parliament has spent a lot of taxpayers’ money on. We are then accused of spending taxpayers’ money without any cause.
You cannot blame the nation for saying that when the responsible Ministry is not here for this report and I think that it would have been important that before this report is presented, to also just look around on whether the responsible Ministry is around. This is falling on deaf ears because none of us are empowered to do anything about this report other than recommend. So, I also implore that the responsible Ministry shows an interest in these issues because the work that we are doing as Parliament goes to nothing. I know that this Committee has spent a lot of time and it has been sincere in dealing with these issues and such. The Ministry must be reciprocal and must also complement the efforts of the Members of Parliament and the Committee that has done this.
With that Mr. Speaker Sir, I think I will support this issue and I think that we do not have to be emotional and we do not have to encourage issues of an eye for an eye because it has never worked but what we must be seen to be doing is to create a better Zimbabwe for generations to come – where we have gone wrong, let them enjoin.
Thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY
POLITICAL PARTIES
Thirty-Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on acts of violence and terror against innocent people.
Question again proposed.
HON. WATSON: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for the time to debate this motion. When Hon. Mandipaka debated, he pointed out that this motion has been on the Order Paper for some time although it was time sensitive when it came to the House. He tried in his debate to take the violence that occurred at the time described in his motion back in time to the formation of the opposition in 1999. However, in doing so, he neglected to balance his argument. In fact, although there has been violence indeed since 1999 and before 1999, a lot of that violence was not formulated by the opposition. There was the case of Talent Mabika and Tichaona Chimenya who were violently petrol bombed, attacked and died. Although the perpetrators of those crimes were known, they were never apprehended; they were never prosecuted and nothing occurred about that very violent murder.
Violence then continued in Zimbabwe throughout the period 2000 to 2008 at every election. In fact, very few perpetrators were ever brought to court or was it proved conclusively. The source of that violence has remained hidden to Zimbabweans. The source of violence in the Presidential run up in 2008 was one of the reasons of intervention of SADC and the lead up to the GNU. Therefore, it has to be a balanced argument. It cannot be one sided.
Although a lot of perpetrators or said alleged perpetrators of violence are described in Oliver Mandipaka’s debate, some of them have already been tried and released for lack of evidence. Therefore, to call upon the Ministry of Home Affairs to prosecute and the ZRP to investigate seems a little irrelevant because they seem incapable.
The Minister, at the time, did not bring a statement to this House which was his obligation given the seriousness of the alleged crimes.
Therefore, I strongly feel that the Minister should come in light of Hon.
Mandipaka’s debate and explain to this House exactly what was discovered, what has happened and who the perpetrators were before we allege in this House, that it is the formation and the opposition itself which is violent. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. I am sorry to Hon. Mliswa for stopping him. Hon. Speaker, I wish to draw your attention to that fact that, as you may recall, Parliament had instructed us, myself and Hon. Mandipaka to join our motions. That could not happen. We could not agree on certain contents. What it therefore meant was that we were supposed to come back to Parliament and indicate to you that we had failed to agree so that we would then motivate the course to be taken by both parties in the two motions forward.
That has not been done. So, I wish to then indicate and table that. Perhaps, the best way to proceed would be for us to find a way of debating this one and also, if I may be allowed to move mine so that when it comes to then adopting the resolutions, we are able to join. Yes, we will allow this one to be debated but before we conclude on it, I hope that I will also be allowed, Hon. Speaker, to also bring mine because we cannot allow Parliament to plough the same field twice. It is unnecessary; it is excessively laborious for Members of Parliament to be forced to engage in this aspect twice.
So, this is my humble submission Hon. Speaker, and I hope we will get a ruling from the Chair in terms of how we are going to proceed because these motions are similar, save to say we just have slight differences in terms of orientation. Hon. Mandipaka is emphasising parties being violent and I am emphasising the obligation that has to be placed on the police in terms of making sure that we alleviate the scourge of violence in Zimbabwe.
So, I await the direction without necessarily vetoing the approach to be taken by Hon. Members who wish to debate. I just hope that we will be able to be just to both motions for the speedy and meritocratic attention to issues before us Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I do understand what you are
saying Hon. Chamisa, but as you are quite aware, this motion was adjourned. It is not like it is being introduced but anyway, I am being advised here by the Clerk that Hon. Chamisa’s motion will have to come as an amendment and the Hon. Members can debate on either the original motion or the amendment.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to contribute to this debate which was moved by Hon. Mandipaka in terms of the political parties’ perpetration of acts of violence in our nation and I repeat, strongly condemn political parties perpetrating acts of violence in our nation.
All political parties are responsible for the violence in this country; ZANU PF included, MDC included. I say so because in my debate, I will clearly say that charity begins at home. The violence you see perpetrated by the young people in the streets starts at home. When I talk about home, I talk about the political parties that they belong to. You cannot exonerate any political party from this. It has become a culture. Any politician believes that they must have an army; they must have a riot squad to go and deal with somebody who wants to contest or anything. I say so with my history of having been a provincial chairperson of the ruling party.
The critical issue to understand is - what are political parties doing to ensure that there is tolerance amongst themselves? I will give examples. MDC – when Elton Mangoma left, he was beaten up at
Harvest House. This is there is in the public domain and I did not hear a statement from the leadership of the party admonishing that if there is anything, they were equally part of it.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. There were people who were arrested who are members of the Movement for Democratic Change. They were tried and acquitted. In that regard, we need to come to the assault which the Hon. Member is referring to. The truth of the matter is that the persons who were alleged to have assaulted Hon. Mangoma were acquitted by a court of law. At the end of the day, you cannot visit that violence on the doorsteps of the Movement for
Democratic Change - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
I think it is important to put it in that context. So, it is not proper for the Hon. Member to impute to the MDC responsibility for that particular act of violence. If he wants to give examples, he must not give examples whereby he makes reference to inaccurate information. It is now in the public domain that a court of law acquitted the Hon. Members. James Chidhakwa was acquitted by a court of law. He was not found guilty of any offence. My point is that Hon. Mliswa must not say that the MDC was supposed to make a statement because MDC was not responsible for the violence. That is my point of order. He must not make that submission that MDC should have ….
HON. MLISWA: Before even the Speaker rules, I have absolutely have no qualms in withdrawing. I withdraw. I will withdraw by proffering a very good example of a Glen View incident where a policeman was killed by MDC who are in jail - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - They were convicted and they are serving sentence right now…..
HON. GONESE: Another point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No. No. No.
HON. GONESE: There is an appeal and the …..
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have not recognised you.
HON. GONESE: There is an appeal and the matter is now subjudice ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have not recognised you.
HON. GONESE: I can sight our Standing Orders Mr. Speaker where it says that we must not make reference to matters which are subjudice…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have not recognised you.
Hon. Gonese approached the Chair.
HON. GONESE: My point of order is that this matter is subject to an appeal and therefore, it is subjudice. Our Standing Orders are very specific; that were matters are under consideration by our courts of law, we cannot make reference to them because they are subjudice. The appeal has been duly noted and it is pending before the Supreme Court.
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, I totally agree with Hon. Gonese that the Standing Orders are very clear pertaining to issues before the courts. It does not specify that, ‘under appeal before the courts’. He was convicted before the courts. In being convicted before the courts, he must be very specific which Standing Order then said appeal. Appeal does not set aside the judgment because they are still in there. It is the same thing with the Kereke situation. Kereke has been convicted, he is in prison and he has appealed. He is not sitting in Parliament because the court is yet to hear that and that is what it is. That is what I understand about the law.
I want to be very clear about that….
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order, this is a very important debate. I am making a supplication to your Hon. Chair that if we may make sure that there is quorum because we need all the members to be here - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
We want to see if there is quorum. We want all members to be here.
This is very important.
Hon. Adv. Chamisa having consulted with Hon. Gonese.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, I am the mover of this motion and I want to withdraw it in the interest of our business so that we are able to transact - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. MLISWA: These issues are important and let me on that note, commend Hon. Chamisa who has been visiting the MDC convicted people in prison. I thank you for that because they find solace in that. I have seen him on social media commenting. I think it is very important that as political parties when we allow people to be violent, we also visit them in prison. That only shows that you are human.
On a more serious note, Hon. Chamisa, you have ….
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: On a point of order, I just want to remind the Hon. Member here that when he is debating, he must also take into cognisance that he is also one of the perpetrators because at one point he beat Hon. Mahoka.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is not a point of order.
HON. MLISWA: I went before the courts and I was acquitted. I do not know if you know of any other court that convicted me.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you continue with your
debate?
HON. MLISWA: I was acquitted because I was not there. On a more serious note, I seriously want to commend Hon. Chamisa. I follow him on tweeter and I think it was very good of you to be able to do that but next time, find others from ZANU PF who are there so that you can also give solace to them as a lawyer - [AN HON. MEMBER: And pray
for them.] -
I was to talk about Ambassador Stevenson situation where we all know that there was a machete which was brought out because she disagreed with MDC on her thoughts. As a result, she went to join Prof.
Welshman Ncube’s MDC. These are examples which I am giving
which we have done nothing about as political parties to address. This issue is serious because we are going towards elections. What happens is that it seems to be a training ground for people to exercise beating each other for the grand finale which is the election. Unfortunately, there is not much being done by the political parties to address this. If there is anything, more is happening.
I will also talk on the other side, ZANU PF. Just recently…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you stick
to the motion of the debate?
HON. MLISWA: No, the motion is very clear. I am on strongly condemning political parties perpetrating acts of violence. These are parties that I am taking about. I am within that Mr. Speaker Sir.
I also want to talk about ZANU PF where in Bulawayo, Lacoste and G40; even the Vice President himself was involved. So, if you are having a leader at that level getting involved in violence, even going to the police station, where are we going as a country? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So, to me you have a situation where it is political parties - moreso ZANU PF is the party that is actually governing the country, they should lead by example. If I go through the Constitution here, it is very clear as to the functions of the Commissioner General, the functions of the police. It does not talk about the Vice President being in charge of the police but it talks about the President appointing the Commissioner General, in consultation with the Minister.
The Vice President has got the power to send the Minister to go and check but he decides to go himself. What message are we sending to the nation because he belongs to a faction within the party that has been beaten up and he is now going to defend them? It is totally unacceptable and I think it is important that we have leaders who lead by example.
What is then happening is that these young people end up being more violent, because they are getting protection from the Presidium. So, if you are getting protection from the Presidium, why should I stop fighting? I speak with so much passion because I see us dividing our nation because of the political interest that we have. It is not the first time, if you go through the Constitution, it is very clear about the role of the police - Section 219 (3), the police service must be non-partisan, national in character, patriotic, professional and subordinate to civilian authority as establish by this Constitution. So, you are now getting the police to be partisan when they should be non-partisan because they work on instructions. When they see the Vice President they have no choice but to salute and take the instruction, but is that what the
Constitution says?
So, we have leaders violating the Constitution everyday and breeding this ground for these young people to be violent. They go out there to go and destroy peoples’ properties when demonstration are there, knowing that they are protected by the Presidium. To me, we must not mince our words when we come to this situation because the act of violence in political parties, intra party can also affect any of you especially on the ZANU PF side, where the factions are even more dominant than any other party.
They are now using violence to be able to dictate who is more powerful. I saw it myself when I was the provincial chairman when the
Hon. Minister of Defence, Sekeramayi’s wife was beaten up at the
ZANU PF Headquarters by ZANU PF youths – [HON. MEMBERS:
Ahh.] – because of the factions because people believed that Cde. Sekeramayi was Gamatox and the wife was beaten up. How would you allow honestly, a Minister to have his wife beaten up and the party does not even issue a statement? It means you are giving a go ahead for these young people to be violent.
I equally saw it in Hurungwe West where the Human Rights Commission report is very clear about the acts of violence, which pains me because these are the people that I served. Innocently because of their will and their right to exercise their vote, they were beaten up. Why beat up a person because you differ from their opinion? Is this the nation that we want to build? Are we here because of the will of the people or we are here because of violence? It is a question I ask every legislature in here. From the primary elections that you underwent did you every the youths to beat anybody, if they did may the good Lord forgive you. It is important that we exercise this from our political parties, because this aspect of violence is growing and while it is growing it needs to be curbed.
We have innocent people who are running their businesses in these hard times having their properties being destroyed, goods being looted. They took loans and now they cannot pay back the loans and we still are not strong on it. The police from what I know of them will never act until they are given instructions to act, especially when it is a so called political matter. They will tell you we are waiting for a directive. They have taken off to be able to practice and what I am saying is that the hierarchy in the police must understand that the many people from all political parties who have suffered violence, some have died, is something that will haunt them for the rest of their lives, because the Commissioner General of police must be able to leave that office one day to say that I discharged my duties professionally I am in accordance with the Constitution of the country. My question is will he be able to respond to that affirmatively.
It is important Mr. Speaker that the police must work with the community as they say. There must be no barrier whatsoever, but a barrier has been created and while has been created, there is now animosity between the police and the public which then makes people paint a picture and label the police to be partisan rather being non partisan. I think Commissioner General Chihuri is a war veteran who will respect – he went to war to liberate this country and to me I think it is equally important for him to enjoy the fruits, but at the time sticking to the founding principles of the struggle.
They went through the Smith regime - because of oppression and because of the violence that was there and I think his quest to be in the struggle was to see a free Zimbabwe where people enjoy, where they is law and order. I think there is the aspect of minimum force, the police is empowered to use minimum force, but you know - what is minimum force? We saw the war veterans being tear-gassed. Was it really necessary for the police to tear gas the war veterans who are innocent and cannot even run? So, to me already you are actually provoking society to respond and society responds by being violent because you were violent. Do we not have police officers? The Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission recommends that police officers must continuously go through training so that they are up with the modern trends of policing in the whole world. Without them being given those refresher courses, they will always not be there. We see a situation where resources which are meant to really work against those who are not... [Time limit.]
HON. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, I want to thank you for this
opportunity to debate and I think it is equally important that we all observe tolerance as a nation, we all respect each other. There is no point in us being violent because the seed that we are planting in our political parties is slowly manifesting and it will harm us. I thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: Mr. Speaker, I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI seconded by HON.
GONESE, the House adjourned at Five Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 20th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 14th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. There are housekeeping issues Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What housekeeping issues?
HON. GONESE: As you know Madam Speaker, when we start
Question Time, you inform us of the Ministers who have sought your leave. Those are the housekeeping issues I am talking about so that we know which Ministers have been officially granted leave of absence.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am being informed that
someone has gone to collect the list from the administration office.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development – [HON.
CHIBAYA: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, what are you
saying, what is wrong with you?
HON. MANGAMI: What is Government policy regarding the
mining claims which are under utilised?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker.
The policy is that all claims, if possible, should be mined. If there are claims that are idle, then members of the public are free to apply for those claims. If they belong to companies that are not willing to release them, please engage the Ministry of Mines so that we assist you to utilise those claims. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am appealing to Hon.
Members to listen when the Ministers are giving answers because there are mines all over which are lying idle so the answer will help every Hon. Member.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What measures are
in place to ensure that the youth can mine on such claims which are lying idle so that as a country we can continue having 3% royalties which can lead to us to getting better remuneration?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have repeated the same
question Hon. Nduna. He has advised you what to do as regards to the mines that are not being utilised, so you may not bring the same question.
HON. MUDARIKWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. Hon. Minister, can you inform the House on the progress and challenges the nation is facing on Bureau Veritas that is pre-inspection? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I want to thank the Hon. Member
for that pertinent question regarding the pre-inspection that is currently obtaining. As we contracted Bureau Veritas - you will be aware that there is a Bill that was pronounced by the Head of State when we opened the 8th Parliament. One of the 14 Bills was touching the issues of quality control. While the Ministry is still in the process and at an advanced stage of coming up with the Bill to be tabled before Parliament, we contracted a company called Bureau Veritas to do preinspection for all specified products that are destined here in Zimbabwe in a bid to already put into effect, the quality control systems. This experience has seen us grow from what I could say teething problems to graduation, but not yet completely graduated.
The experiences that we have had with Bureau Veritas include delays in clearances, communication with the implementers who are ZIMRA at our border post. Be that as it may, we already have a hotline through e-mails and through the Ministry of Industry and Commerce where we attend to issues as they come. The other bottleneck that we experience is that there are some products that we think should not be inspected all the time. I will give an example of the inspection on the importation for items such as generators, once these are inspected and issued with a certificate, it has come to our knowledge that this should be done once to those companies that are supplying to avoid reputation where it is not necessary. I thank you.
*HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Ministry of Home Affairs. What is Government policy concerning buildings that have been constructed in districts and most of them are just lying idle with some even being stolen. In Murewa there are some offices for Birth registration that have not been completed in terms of construction.
*THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have not been clear Hon.
Member. What did you say is being destroyed?
*HON. ZEMURA: Well, I am saying Government buildings are getting dilapidated because they are constructed in the district areas. We do have offices for the Ministry of Home Affairs where people acquire their birth certificates from. People are being soaked in rain. They were constructed a long time ago by the Ian Smith regime.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The buildings maintenance is under the Department of Public Works. If they can complete those buildings, we will move our staff from those ancient buildings to the new ones. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I believe you have understood the response, Hon. Member. Please direct the question to the appropriate Minister.
+HON. MASUKU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. What is
Government doing in regard to reviving the industry in Bulawayo? May I be informed as to when Government is going to come into the revival of industry in Bulawayo? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
thank the Hon. Member for such a pertinent question in regards to the revival of industry in Bulawayo. Let me say that it is important that the country should know that yes, we are not just looking at Bulawayo, but the entire country. What is important is that Bulawayo, as we know, is the industrial hub of Zimbabwe. What we are doing, as we planned to do just after our promotion at the trade fair this year, was to ensure that we see investors focus on Bulawayo.
As we speak right now, there are certain companies that are there in Bulawayo that have been revived. I can give you an example such as Datlabs. In 2013, when we inaugurated our focus on Bulawayo, Datlabs was operating at 18%, but at present, they are now operating at 78%. We have other textile industries that have been revived, but that is not sufficient. What I ask is that as the people are listening, those people in Bulawayo, if there are any projects that they have, they should try and ensure that as they do these businesses, they should approach us because we have certain funds that are there, that have been set aside for the revival of industries, especially those that benefit or come from Statutory
Instrument Number 64 of 2016.
If you come, you will be able to access the funding that has been set aside for the revival of such industries. May I appeal that as I speak, Bulawayo has been designated as a special economic zone and we are focusing our minds and accept that Bulawayo should be looked at specifically, with a view to revive its industry. I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Could the Minister tell us what the delay is in implementing Special Economic Zones?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order. Can we have order in the
House so that the Minister understands what is being said?
HON. WATSON: In the spirit of developing industry in
Bulawayo and answering Hon. Masuku’s question, could the Minister please inform us what the delay is in implementing Special Economic Zones, especially for Bulawayo? Thank you.
HON. MABUWA: Regarding the programming of the role out of the Special Economic Zones, I would like to say that the Special Economic Zones Act or the programme itself does not contain only the implementation of manufacturing concerns. It concerns other Ministries or other sectors such that it is being overseen by the Ministry responsible for investment promotion and macro economic development framework. So, as the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, we are part of the whole role out strategy, the manufacturing concerns in Bulawayo will benefit out of this.
The programme is still with the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development and the Ministry responsible for Micro-Economic Development Framework, but as far as we are concerned, we are already ready and a framework will be announced by those responsible Ministries and then we will play our own part, as the Minis try of Industry and Commerce. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question is on the resuscitation of industry. It seems it is only targeted to Bulawayo. What is Government’s position on other industries? For example, in Norton we have got industries too which need to be resuscitated like the Central African Batteries which equally can enjoy from Statutory Instrument Number 64. In terms of the money that they are going to avail, how much money is there to resuscitate these industries?
HON. MABUWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I know that I used a vernacular language that might not be privy to all of us, but in my introduction when I responded in Ndebele, I said we look at the entire nation, but I am going to focus on Bulawayo as the question has come, as I was really questioned about Bulawayo, but as the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, we are looking at the entire country. I am now perhaps going to withhold what I can say about Norton because the next person will stand up and say what about the next town and so forth and so on, but I think it is the right of Members of Parliament to know what is happening in their own constituencies regarding the industries and our offices are open.
Now that Norton has been exemplified and you said that this was the last follow up question, I will touch a little bit on industries that we have resuscitated in Norton which include horticulture and the value addition of fruits that are being manufactured in Bulawayo. There has been a more than US$10 million investment in Bulawayo that was invested by Schweppes and then the batteries manufacturing – we have a battery manufacturing, rightfully as indicated by the Hon. Member. Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016 - the batteries manufacturers have benefited out of that and we have already resuscitated companies here. If the one which is based in Norton is not yet benefiting out of the resuscitated companies that are enjoying the supply of batteries in here. They can come in, see us and we discuss what their problem is regarding the reasons they are not manufacturing the batteries here in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is a Land Cruiser
ABE-3460, sticker number 0268 should be removed on the Speaker’s parking bay in the car park. Hon. Mliswa, please go and remove your vehicle – [HON. MLISWA: I am sorry. I thought the Speaker is at the
PB today.] - Do you become the Speaker when the Speaker is at the
PB?
*HON. CHISOROCHENGWE: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. What is Government policy with regards to police officers that are abusing people who would have given complaints?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): The police has – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, can we have order.
HON. MGUNI: The police have to give good service to the nation. That is why they have got various departments like the Liaison Committees, Crime, Special Investigations, Law and Order and so on. When a person comes, there is a procedure that the police should receive you, get your complaint and forward it to the people who must actually give that service, listen to the complaint and make follow ups. The complainant has the right to follow up into a higher step. Let us say it is a district, if it is not done correctly, you have got the right to go to the province. If they are failing, you can reach the national level.
*HON. MAHOKA: My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. What is Government policy as regards the issue of mining permits because once people have paid for these permits they are not accessing the mining permits within a short space of time. They are waiting for about a year. What measures are you going to take to ensure that the process does not take a long time?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Mining permits have to go
through four offices for signatures which are at provincial level, Mining
Affairs Board, responsible Minister and then the President’s office. Those that are signed at provincial level should be quickly processed within a short space of time. For those that come to the Mining Affairs Board, it meets once in two months but if there are a lot of permits to be processed, it may take a longer period. Those that go to the Minister coming from the Mining Affairs Board, the Mining Board will have recommended to the Minister that the permits be issued, the others may have been turned down and these may take longer. Those that have to be signed at the President’s office also take time because they have to go through Cabinet. There are few documents that go to the President’s Office and these pertain to strategic minerals but they should not take a long time.
*HON. MAHOKA: Hon. Deputy Minister, you have answered
the question but you have not stated the stipulated period. Is it a year or three months because it is taking us a year for such papers to be processed? How long does this process take?
*HON. F. MOYO: It will be difficult for me to state the period because it varies from one province to another. If one were to send their papers to Mashonaland East which is not endowed with minerals, it will take about a month. If it goes to Mashonaland West Province,
Matabeleland South or Midlands, it can take three to four months.
In our department, we also have transport challenges and this might cause delays in going to the ground with surveyors to peg the mines. As a result of that, we will be able to timeously issue these permits. We have few surveyors and few vehicles. Although we are facing these problems at the moment, it should not take you more than a year to have the permit processed.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: As a Ministry, how much
time do you think this process should take?
*HON. F. MOYO: We envisage that permits that are processed at provincial level must not exceed three months. I would like Hon. Members to understand what happens during other processes. Once an application has been made to get a mining permit, one has to wait for a month to ensure that there is no one who has an objection to the claim that you would want so that the interested parties can also raise their objection. So it is also taken into account when an application is pending. If you have your own surveyors and those that are on the ground, you should peg and put notices that show that you would want to prospect on the particular mining area.
*HON. NDUNA: For those whose delays have been caused by your departments, they will not be denied permits; what measures have you put in place to ensure that these people are not victimised or arrested by the police whilst they are waiting for their permits to be processed?
*HON. F. MOYO: If papers have not been processed and you have no permit to mine, you should not go to the ground and start mining – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, have you
heard the response?
HON. NDUNA: Yes maam.
HON. CHAKONA: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. In her absence, I will direct the question to the Deputy Minister. I would like to know Government policy – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we have order please.
HON. CHAKONA: I would like to know Government policy with
regards to drought relief food. When is the Ministry going to stop or is
it continuing distributing drought relief food? – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Please let us give the
Minister a chance to respond.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Madam Speaker. I thank Hon. Chakona for that question – [HON.
ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zwizwai, please.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Madam Speaker, the food
mitigation programme was in four parts. There is the first part which deals with vulnerable people. That programme will always be ongoing because that is dependent on the current registers which are there and for as long as vulnerable people will always be there. So, it is a social protection net which is there. The second mitigation was targeted towards the drought situation that was coming through. Now that we are expecting a bumper harvest, that position has since changed; we ceased that programme last month. We are now working on the new ZIMVAC assessment/livelihood assessment to see that the people who had good harvest and people who did not have good harvest, we see the assistance if at all it is required that we can come up with.
Other programmes like the school feeding programmes are ongoing and assisting the vulnerable in general but the generality of the people who had been affected by the drought, that has stopped Madam Speaker.
HON. S. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga having passed through the Chair and the member speaking.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga.
HON. S. CHIDAKWA: I would like the Minister to clarify who are vulnerable people because three quarters of our people are now vulnerable since they are not employed. I thank you.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Madam Speaker, vulnerable
people come in four categories. The first category is the elderly, the aged. The second category is the chronically ill, we have the disabled on that classification and we have child headed families under the vulnerable sector. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question is - as I was in my communal home, I saw elderly women working for food for work projects. They were filling gulleys and others were cutting down trees. Is this not slavery for the aged? - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You have heard my question? Is this permissible in terms of our Constitution? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
Sometimes we waste a lot of time making a lot of noise and it deprives a lot of members from asking questions.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister as a supplementary concerning the elderly aged between 65 or even 70 years. Is that within the rights enshrined in the Constitution because the elderly should be given these rights that are in the Constitution? Are we not violating the Constitution and are we not being cruel to the elderly? Is this not slavery in our own country? I want to understand what Government policy is because it is quite painful for the elderly to work in Government or community programmes. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, your
question is not emanating from the original question.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is on the part of the vulnerable –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can
we have order please. The first question had to do with the vulnerable, the elderly that were cutting down trees and those that are aged and are at work. That is not emanating from the original question.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Please, do not be concerned Madam
Speaker.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
thank Hon. Chamisa for his question, a Pastor and an Advocate – [HON.
ZWIZWAI: We are not in church too.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zwizwai, I do not
want to send you out, that is too much. I think you must behave yourself as a Member of Parliament.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: The duty of selecting the
vulnerable members of the community is entrusted with the community. When we come up with food for work programmes, it is people who are able-bodied who can work. The elderly would have been screened by ward, district and provincial committees who then put these people in categories that certain persons are able to work and others not.
The committee includes the elders in the communities, church elders, the traditional healers and Social Welfare officers meet and decide on those that are able to work and those that are unable to do so.
As a result, some of these people will be placed on food for work programmes. If Hon. Chamisa has people who are working who are not capable of working, you should inform us so that we can rectify that anomaly in order that the member cannot be on food for work. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My point of order is, I seek the Hon.
Minister to clarify whether as Government policy, old age as a group of vulnerable people is defined by age or it is left open for the communities to determine looking at the physical aspect of the individual.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is what he was
explaining.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, I think in terms of the law Hon.
Speaker, there should be an age limit that defines a person’s old age. So, we want the Hon. Minister to clarify that point.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is another way of
bringing in a supplementary question. I had said that was the last supplementary. You can bring it as a separate question that will be fine.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. I would like to find out what intervention you are going to come up with as a result of buses that are killing people on the roads. In April, we lost a number of people when a bus caught fire. This month, there was the Nyamakate bus disaster. What measures is Government putting in place as regards the transport sector, buses in particular?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADANHA):
Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member who has just asked a very important question, Hon. Nyamupinga. Let me start by conveying my deepest condolences to the bereaved – [HON.
ZWIZWAI: Wanga usati waita namanje?] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, I want to send
you out today.
HON. MADANHA: I also wish all the injured….
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of order. Madam Speaker, I asked my question in Shona.
*HON. MADANHA: Thank you Madam Speaker. First and foremost, I would like to thank Hon. Nyamupinga for her question, which is pertinent. I would want to express my condolences to those who lost their relatives in this accident. Those in hospital; I wish them a speedy recovery.
Madam Speaker, the issue of road accidents is painful to everyone. As Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, we are deeply concerned that we had such serious accidents within a short space of time. Firstly, some accidents are caused by the condition of the vehicle. Secondly, accidents can be caused by the poor condition of the road. We have just experienced incessant rains and we have a lot of potholes - that may cause accidents. However, the most contributory factor to accidents is human error.
We have the Vehicle Inspection Department which inspects all the vehicles that are on the roads. In terms of the roads themselves, I believe all Hon. Members are seeing the work that we are doing to ensure that we repair these roads by patching potholes. We had a programme which was officiated by the President of this country since all our roads were in a state of disaster. We embarked on a pothole filling exercise and we are now on the second phase to properly construct these roads so that we have good roads, which might reduce accidents.
Since I earlier on pointed out that our major problem is that the drivers are flouting the road rules. If you make reference to the bus that was involved in this fatal accident, we had reports that the driver could have been excessively speeding. There are also reports that there was a tyre burst. Yes, accidents occur; it is true that we may not have zero percent in terms of accidents - but we can minimise the number of accidents occurring. As Government, we would want all drivers to be competently trained and should have proper documentation, because some of these drivers have fraudulently acquired their drivers’ licences.
As Government, we are mostly concerned about what happens once there is an accident; those that die and those that are injured. We understand that most of these people are uninsured. The ambulances and fire brigade are reluctant to respond because they are afraid of the expenses because they may not be paid for services. When one is injured, they would go to hospital. They will need drugs and the like, but who will pay for that because most of these people do not have medical aid cover. This is the greatest challenge that we are facing as a Ministry at present.
Since last week we have been going round all the provinces, dealing with the issue of the Road Accidents Fund, which is a programme we are saying as a country let us see how best we can assist the people if they are involved in an accident. It is a plan that we intend to come up with. As Government we would ensure that we look into the condition of the roads, human error, drivers’ licencing issues as there are allegations that some of these drivers are not properly licenced. I thank you.
Almost all Hon. Members having stood to pose supplementary questions.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order. The first supplementary question should come from the person who asked the question.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Here we
are talking about an old lady who is from the communal areas. We are talking of an old lady who is not insured, who was on a journey and was involved in an accident and unfortunately died. What policy does
Government have in place? A lot of women died in that bus disaster at Nyamakate. We understand that most women have extended families whom they look after. What is Government policy regarding such incidences? We only hear that Government provides coffins worth $200, for each of the victims.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I believe they are still looking into such issues. May you bring to this House what you would have found so that we can see how they can deal with the issues – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Member, you have to behave yourself.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order. Madam Speaker, this case
is a national disaster. It is only proper, in the interest of time that the Ministry concerned issues a statement, thereafter Hon. Members can ask questions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think I support what Hon. Mliswa is saying because we are going to spend the whole afternoon talking about this issue. Hon. Minister, I think you have to go and prepare that Ministerial Statement concerning the Hon. Member. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, can we have order?
HON. CHIRISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is, as he gives his Ministerial Statement, Government gave assistance, was the bus insured? We want to find out what the issue is. Secondly,...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those are the same issues
that will be incorporated in the Statement.
HON. CHIMWAMUROMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Hon. Made...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Made is not in the
House Hon. Member.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development, Hon. Fred
Moyo. My question is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order in the House.
HON. HOLDER: What is Government policy regarding the chrome claims that are being distributed from the Ministry of Ministry of Mines? What policy have they put in place to distribute these chrome claims evenly?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you very much for the
question. The policy for distribution of claims is that Government acquired 50 percent of claims that were being held by private companies. We are going to distribute those based on claims given to smelters, claims given to the generality of our citizens and claims that will be retained by Government. On claims given to citizens, they are going to be broken into groups of individuals such as women, youths as well as special groups. Special groups involve the disabled as well as war veterans. That is the policy at the moment.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I heard the Deputy Minister saying, we are going to but there are people right now on the ground. Has the programme started or it is going to start, because there are people right now who have claimed all over the place. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the question Hon.
Phiri?
HON. PHIRI: I am saying, I heard the Minister saying we are going to start but there are people who are on the ground now.
HON. F. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. There are people who are on the ground now because they were already working on claims. They will stay on those claims until we officially give them their certificates. The distribution is only starting today going forward but those who are on claims because they had tributes, they were already working there and will stay on the ground. Those who have positioned themselves unofficially will be removed from the ground that they have occupied illegally.
HON. HOLDER: The Minister has mentioned that the programme has started today. We want to find out whether payments are being made to individuals or they are made to the Ministry of Mines directly because unscrupulous people are collecting money from the people. Are they from the Ministry or not? [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKR: Hon. Members, we want to
hear what the Hon. Member is saying. Hon. Murai, what is your problem?
HON. F. MOYO: I am sorry Madam Speaker, I did not get the question quite well.
HON. HOLDER: Madam Speaker, I heard the Minister saying that the programme is starting today and what I want to find out is, payments are being claimed by the people who claim to be from the Ministry of Mines, is it legal. Are these people that are on the ground, collecting money from people from the Ministry of Mines or they are unscrupulous people that have opened offices and are asking individuals to pay for these claims? There is going to be disaster as far as I see it.
HON. F. MOYO: All claims will be issued from head office from the Ministry in Harare. Anybody who is being given claims on the ground at provinces - paying money, it is illegal and I am not sure who
is doing it. All claims will be issued from the Ministry’s Headquarters and certificates are then sent to provinces. Nobody should be paying for claims from the provinces.
*HON. KAUNDIKIZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Minister Dokora. In the rural areas, there are secondary schools that are doing agriculture but they do not have teachers to instruct those subjects. What is Government policy as regards staffing in such institutions? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you very much Madam
Speaker. The Government policy is that we should have teachers in schools who instruct in such subjects in our country. I thank you.
HON. MURAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
question is that, Hon. Minister, in primary schools, according to the new curriculum, Agriculture as a subject has become examinable yet there are no teachers, textbooks and other resources to that effect. How are we going to do it when we do not have these in place?
HON. DR. DOKORA: Madam Speaker, it is true what the Hon. Member has stated that agriculture has become part of the new curriculum of our nation from Grade Three onwards. It is also pertinent to note that it is not a case that is universal, that there are no teachers who are able to undertake that task. We have in the past indicated that the deployment of teachers we are making now relates to the specialisation that the teachers did go through during their college days. Further, we have collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture to ensure that there is wholesome and holistic treatment of this area of the new curriculum. I thank the Hon. Member for the concern he has expressed.
*HON. KAUNDIKIZA: Madam Speaker, whilst the Minister has
responded but I am saying at times the situation is better in the urban areas. In rural areas, we do not have such teachers. The children do not have anyone to instruct them. What is Government’s policy with regards to that issue?
*HON. DR. DOKORA: Once again, I thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. I am saying that Government’s position is that we are not responsible for staffing of teachers. We do not invite them and say we will pay them – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There is the employer who should authorise me to employ. I should have the number of teachers that I require. Since last year, I have been requesting for a specific number of teachers, 7 000 in particular, but there is a Government policy that I will be given 2 300 initially. I am waiting for the 2 300 to be released by the employer, the Public Service Commission. I am still waiting for such a decision to happen. I thank you.
*HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The problem
that I have Hon. Speaker is that the answer that has been given by the Hon. Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora is as if his Ministry is in South Africa and the Ministry that does the hiring of people is in Mozambique or South Africa. They are both Cabinet Ministers. How do you introduce subjects before you know how you are going to acquire the teachers for the particular subjects?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have understood Hon. Dr.
Dokora’s response. He is merely saying you are posing the question to the wrong person. He is not responsible for the recruitment of teachers.
If the Minister …
*HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, all I am saying is that before the Minister introduces a subject, he should talk to the people that hire and those that release the funds so as to ensure that he is allowed to hire and that there will be funding. After such discussions, then he can introduce a subject. It is like saying I will impregnate you and you will have five children before proposing. Put the first things first. Propose to the woman and she must accept your proposal, and then get married and the rest is history.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: What Hon. Maridadi is now saying about
proposals and children is not pertinent as regards our present circumstances that I should first have the funding and the teachers – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I was listening when you were posing your question Hon. Member. Allow me the chance to answer you in full. So, once all these things have been put in place and there is 100% preparation, then we should start the ball rolling. As I respond to the question, may I pose a question? Would anyone go to work so that they will only think about everything that needs to be done at the workplace when they are at home before they go to work? Even this country …
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. The long and short of it is that the Hon. Member’s supplementary question is whether there is cohesion and coherence in governance when the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education comes up with certain policies to introduce a new curriculum, subjects and so forth. Is there that cohesion within Cabinet itself so that there is complementarity in the sense that the Ministry responsible for employment of civil servants is aware so that they make adequate provisions for the teachers to be employed and that is the question which requires an answer? The Hon. Minister is hedging and fudging, and trying to avoid the question. That is what the nation wants to know whether there is that cohesion in Cabinet. I think it is important for that to be responded to for the benefit of the nation.
*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: My question goes to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. In your new curriculum for Primary and Secondary Education, you said beginning
2018, there will be ‘O’ and ‘A’ Level examinations that will take into consideration course work up until the last examination. How are the people that are supplementing their subjects going to be assessed. Will they not be able to write examinations? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF PRPIMAARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you so much Madam
Speaker and I thank Hon. Chinanzvavana for such an important question which I will use to give an explanation to bolster what came up during the time we met with the Members of Parliament at a workshop. Those new curricula are the ones that are going to start the issue of continuous assessments based on a weekly basis and the outcomes.
The idea is that this continuous assessment should be used but it depends on the weight that is going to be given to each specific subject which may vary. As they write their final examination, part of the course work will also be used but those that are not being continuously assessed are not going to be affected. They will simply go and write their examination and the same thing would happen the following year without the issue of course work. So, they are free to keep on supplementing until they obtain the required subjects. I thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Yes, we have understood about the issue of examinations - what measures have you put in place for headmasters and schools not to withhold examinations of pupils who would not have paid their school fees so that the school children can continue with their education? I thank you. *HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank the Member who has posed the question as a supplementary. As a Ministry, we expect that there will be two years in which people can pay for examination fees. For primary level, they will start in Grade 6 and in secondary level; they will start paying their examination fees in Form 3 so that when they write their examinations, they will not be owing the examination board. That is the first point.
Secondly, we are pioneers or we first said in 2013 that the person should not be disadvantaged and we urged parents to have payment plans with their schools. There is no free education and parents should be disabused from that notion. As a Ministry, we urge parents to pay the necessary levies to our schools so that the teachers can work well with their children. That will also help the children to write their examinations without any burden. We should not get to a stage where the child has completed his or her education but they have not yet fully paid for their levy. Why are we in such a position? I thank you.
*HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Sport and Recreation. First and foremost, congratulations for the win by the warriors but in terms of the national policy, I congratulate him for coming with that. What does it say as regards the sponsorship of the national team? At one time there was Mr. Chivhayo and now there is Mr. Magaya. Bearing in mind that Prophet Magaya raises funds from the church, if the people do not go to church, what lasting solution have you put in place to the funding of the national team? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you Hon. Mliswa for the question that you have posed. Government policy is that Government funds the national teams but we encourage the corporate sector who would like to be associated with sport to also come in. Because of our economy, there are various corporates which come in various forms and we would want to thank them for coming forward to ensure that sports progresses.
We find it even in our constituencies that business people are also involved to ensure that sports continue going forward. ZIFA has a relationship with Mr. Magaya where the national team is accommodated in very good premises and we are quite grateful. There is no problem. This is not a contradiction to Government policy that Government funds national teams. Where there is private capital to assist, we accept that. I thank you.
*HON. MLISWA: My question is about sustainability. If Mr. Magaya were to wake up angry and chase them away from his good hotel, that will disturb the preparations of the players in terms of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. What should be done is - we also heard that he has taken Mr. Pasuwa’s motor vehicle. It has been repossessed. Is there a written contract or a concept that is used or a contract that says for five years, he is going to be supporting the national team so that the players remain motivated and they will continue winning? I thank you.
*HON. HLONGWANE: My response is that it is not only Mr. Magaya but even a corporate company can be angry. On the issue of sustainability in that regard, I agree with Hon. Mliswa. It should be situated in the contract. There is a difference between a donation and a sponsorship. A sponsorship simply means that the organisation has agreed to put money in sport because of the values of the organisation and what is being done in sport. There is a matching of values which is sponsorship. If there is a sponsorship deal, it will be signed or deduced into by a contract because those that are giving their money expect certain things to be done. We will urge ZIFA to ensure that there may be a contract with Mr. Magaya, that we will accept and we have no problems with that. I thank you.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We want to
ask the Minister of Sport and Recreation that, since Mr. Magaya gives money to football supporters, why is he forcing these players to go and pray in his church and they are given anointed oils and anointing waters and so forth. How does this happen? Is it part of the sponsorship package or these are the conditions of the sponsorship package or they are hoodwinking the players? I thank you. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order. Hon. Mutseyami, you are an Hon. Member and if you are happy, do not use your legs. Do you clap with your legs – no, do not do that.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: I never did that.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You do not use your legs to
clap.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Mr. Speaker Sir, no, I did not do that. It is
not...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, you sit down. I was watching you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: No, no. You saw it wrongly.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I may ask you
to go out. I was watching you.
HON: MUTSEYAMI: For what reason?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You were making noise.
*THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Hon. Speaker Sir, our Constitution says there is freedom of worship. Each member has a right to worship whatever they believe in. Players said they were not forced to go and worship in Mr.
Magaya’s church. That allegation which has been raised by the Hon. Member needs to be investigated. If there is any coercion and if there is such coercion, we will look into it and see what steps could be taken in line with our Constitution, but what we know is that they voluntarily went there. Every Zimbabwean has a right to freedom of worship.
*HON. WADYAJENA: Mr. Speaker, he did not properly respond to the question because in the newspapers, the coach Mr. Mapeza said he ran away and Mr. Magaya said he would withdraw the support. It would mean that he left and he could not go there after the team had won. I want them to investigate on such issues – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. Minister Mzembi was concerned by the issue of road blocks and that it is doing a disservice to tourism. What are you doing as a Ministry to ensure that you remove the numerous road blocks so that it will not disturb the tourism sector? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Hon. Speaker. Two weeks ago, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe chaired a meeting that resolved how to bring down road blocks. Therefore, we went down to get a plan on how to bring them down. Last week, I articulated in this Parliament correctly to say, it is not easy to balance good quality service versus compliance because we need not to loosen our security while we provide services.
Therefore, we have now got a standing document that will reduce road blocks.
However, as the question was raised previously here, we need VID to come to the integration of the new system so that police can use the gadgets just to capture and quickly read and allow the vehicles to move faster than we do now. At the moment, we are compelled to do a lot of work in a road block to check the fitness of a vehicle which is the VID’s responsibility, to check whether the licences are valid which is RMT responsibility and to check whether the drivers are travelling well. If it is integrated, we can even calculate as police the time the driver left and the time the driver arrived at the road block; calculate the speed using a computer and then it will be free flow for the tourists. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: My supplementary question to the
Minister is with regards to the reduction of the number of road blocks.
What is your policy as regards to court judgements that the police should always have a Form 265 and should not force people to pay spot fines? What have you done concerning the issue of having the Form 265 so that the people can be able to be ticketed? What are you doing to reduce this issue of spot fines in a time when people are having difficulties in having hard cash from the bank?
HON. MGUNI: There are gadgets...
THE TEPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, are you quite
clear with the question?
HON. MGUNI: Yes, thank you Mr. Speaker. Presently 500 gadgets which will actually raise the invoices have been deployed into the country, into traffic stations because we will never see a manually written invoice because it is only what he is articulating that is giving us a problem. Also, we are eradicating corruption where that machine must detect the system, the offence and actually eject an invoice which is corresponding with the offence, not from a human error or a human’s mind. This is where we are shifting now.
However, if there is a system that the court says we must not do, we have also the right to go and oppose that system. Why - because we have got reasons why we want to use a system that will maintain POSA in this country. At the moment, we opposed that because we want to use a system which will control vehicles. We cannot just allow anything that is intruding to our security to be implemented. We have to balance it for the country. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: My supplementary question is that whilst you want to come up with these new measures, the courts have come up with judgements that if a person has no spot fine, he should be given a Form 265 and they proceed. At ten road blocks you are stopped for indicators and asked to pay a fine of US$10 when there is no Form 265. After you have gone past, you are being asked to pay monies that are not being receipted. We are saying, put that form into use so that if I do not have the money, I could even go to court. Once you have put these measures that you are talking about, then you can bring in your gadgets that can then test these issues.
HON. MGUNI: Hon. Speaker Sir, when I ended my answer I said if something has been ruled in court and we see that it is compromising our security systems, we have the right to oppose. However, let me explain this, I stood up to explain to the Hon. Member – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Now, let him explain Hon.
Members. You raised a question and you are now talking.
HON. MGUNI: Let me articulate correctly to him. Number one, remember I mentioned here that the registration of our vehicles in Zimbabwe needs to be integrated and computerised. Most of the people that are stopped at road blocks for fines – you will find that the driver does not have a licence; the car he is driving is not his and the owner is not known. If you let that person to go and pay at a police station, how will he pay? He is not known. The address and vehicle do not correspond. You cannot be always doing what he wants. We need to enforce the law and see that the person pays – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. Order please! Order!
Order.
HON. ZWIZWAI: I move that the time for questions without Notice be extended.
HON. KWARAMBA: I object.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, resume your seat!
Hon. Members, a ruling was made here on these points of order and I am not going to entertain any point of order.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: With all due respect, I am not disputing what you have ruled but we have a problem in this Parliament that there are Members that contribute for the sake of wanting to be seen to have been speaking and objecting to meaningful debates or questions.
If we were to ask the Honourable who objected why she has objected – she does not have a valid reason on why she has objected. It is high time that something is done because there is no reason for the objection. Where are we going? We should be doing something in order to develop our country.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You have made your point.
Please take your seat?
*HON. MUNENGAMI: What is the reason for her objection? We should be serious with our work – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are talking and I am
talking. Enough is enough. Do not stretch me too much, otherwise I will send you out.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, if you notice, question number 1 was deferred from the 15th of March and as you are aware, when it comes to written questions, they can give answers to their colleagues or
Deputy Ministers who can respond on behalf of the Minister of Finance. It is unlike questions without notice on policy but it is not acceptable on written questions because we are now in June; almost three months down the line and we have got a question which is continuously being deferred –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. You
may continue.
HON. GONESE: My point is, when it comes to written questions, answers can be given to colleagues or other Ministers. I have already given examples of other Ministers who were here in Parliament who can be furnished by Ministry officials with the written responses. I submit that it is not acceptable to have a situation where a question is continuously being deferred in circumstances where colleagues can respond on their behalf.
I want this to be noted by the Chair so that the relevant Minister is advised to take heed of what I have said so that this august House and the people of Zimbabwe are afforded the opportunity to know the answers to important questions which would have been posed by Members of Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Gonese.
That is a point taken. We will liaise with the Minister. This has been on the Order Paper for too long – since March. I am sure something will be done next week.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of privilege, I am surprised that the Order Paper indicates that question 8 has been deferred since 3 May. In my recollection, it has been actually longer than that and I also rise to express concern at the way that Ministers are not bothering to come. I therefore seek your assistance in getting Ministers to answer these questions.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Majome.
That is a point taken too.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
DOUBLE ALLOCATIONS OF FARMS
- HON. CHIWA asked the Minister of Lands and Rural
Resettlement:
- to explain how the Ministry would manage the double allocations of farms in cases where original owners who were once evicted from the farms have since been given permission to return to their original farms which are already occupied following the administrative court’s ruling that the Minister does not have powers
to withdraw offer letters.
- further explain to the House what other pieces of land such farmers are entitled to considering that this is now a second withdrawal.
- to explain how the Government would manage the investors’ confidence as the administrative court ruling would effectively reverse the agreement and investment surety that was reached at the
Bi – National Conference between Zimbabwe and South Africa in
November, 2016.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): a) The administrative
court’s judgment in the case of Lowveld Sugarcane Association was to the effect that the Minister has no powers to withdraw an offer letter in terms of the Agricultural Land Settlement Act [Chapter 20:01]. However, that decision was in our view erroneous as there have been numerous High Court judgments that state that the Minister of Lands can withdraw offer letters in terms of the offer letter itself. The process is administrative. As a result, an appeal has been noted in the Supreme Court against the judgment. The Minister of Lands is the one that administers the Agricultural Land Settlement Act as well as the gazetted Lands Consequential Provisions Act [Chapter 20:28] which provides for offer letters. In any event, the judgment will not lead to double allocations as the former owners who were evicted and complied with such evictions are stopped by law. The judgment does not apply retrospectively.
- I would respectfully refer you to the answer I gave above. Be that as it may, the said farmers are not entitled to any alternative land as their offer letters were lawfully withdrawn. There is therefore no second withdrawal to talk about.
- As I have stated above, the judgment of the administrative court has since been appealed against. However, investor confidence will remain as the move to actually withdraw the offer letters of the beneficiaries was necessitated as a result of the Bi-national Conference between Zimbabwe and South Africa. Our investors will therefore be re-assured by the Zimbabwean Government’s action in withdrawing the
said offer letters.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 to 5 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON.
RUNGANI, the House adjourned at Five Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 13th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY
LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received Non-Adverse Reports from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on Statutory Instrument Numbers 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68 and 69 published in the Gazette during the month of May 2017.
REGISTRATION FOR ICT TRAINING
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also wish to advise members of the
Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus who have not yet been trained in Information Communication Technology (ICT) to register with ZWPC Secretariat Office by Thursday, 15 June, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the
Day, Numbers 1 to 9 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day on today’s Order Paper have been disposed of.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON
THE FINDINGS OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL ON THE 2010 AND
2011 ACCOUNTS FOR THE BULAWAYO CITY COUNCIL
HON. MPARIWA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House adopts the Second Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the findings of the Auditor General on the 2010 and 2011 Accounts for the Bulawayo City Council (S. C. 1, 2017).
HON. CROSS: I second.
HON. MPARIWA:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The Committee on Public Accounts examined the 2010 and 2011 accounts for the Bulawayo City Council, the first ever accounts of a local authority to be examined by the Committee. Section 309 (2) (a) of the Constitution which came into force in 2013, brought the auditing of all public entities including all provincial, metropolitan, and local authorities under the ambit of the Auditor-General. Previously, local authorities were audited by UDCORP.
In terms of reporting, all metropolitan and local authorities were reporting using the Council Fund Accounting Framework as prescribed by the Urban Councils Act [Chapter 20:15] and the Rural District Councils Act [Chapter 29:13]. The Committee points out from the onset that this reporting framework is now out of context in terms international best practices. The world over, public entities have moved towards the International Public Sector Accounting Standards (IPSAS) which is also the financial reporting framework provided for in Section 37 of the Public Finance Management Act [Chapter 22:19]. Fund accounting does not adequately present the financial wellness of the Council which information is useful to managers, key stakeholders and the public in general. This calls for the urgent need to review the legal frameworks and bring them in line with the PFMA.
Of great concern to the Committee was the huge backlog by
Council with regards to the production of financial statements for audit.
In 2014, the Auditor General was auditing the 2010 and 2011 Bulawayo City Council accounts. By all accounting standards, reporting on these accounts will not be of much value. All the same, the Committee resolved to examine the Bulawayo City on the 2010 and 2011 accounts as a wakeup call on their part and also because some of the issues were yet to be resolved. The Committee expressed its appreciation to the City of Bulawayo that after their appearance before the Committee, the officials have taken action and resolved most of the observations made during audit.
2.0 OBJECTIVES OF THE ENQUIRY
Section 299 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment No. 20 of 2013 states as follows:
(1) Parliament must monitor and oversee expenditure by the
State and all Commissions and institutions and agencies of Government at every level, including statutory bodies, government controlled entities, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities, in order to ensure that-
- All revenue is accounted for;
- All expenditure has been properly incurred; and
- Any limits and conditions on appropriations have been observed.
Section 309 (2) (a) of the Constitution provides for the functions of the Auditor-General as follows:
“to audit the accounts, financial systems and financial management of all departments, institutions and agencies of government, all provincial and metropolitan councils and all local authorities”.
National Assembly Standing Order No. 16 provides for the Public Accounts Committee to examine the sums granted by Parliament to meet public expenditure and such other accounts laid before the National Assembly.
It is within this context that the Committee examined the 2010 and
2011 accounts for the Bulawayo City Council as reported by the Auditor General in the 2014 Annual Audit Report on Local Authorities.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee held a training workshop on the analysis of audit reports of local authorities which was facilitated by Ralph Bomment Greenacre and Reynolds and with the support from the African
Development Bank (AfDB). Given that before the enactment of the new
Constitution in 2013, local authorities were outside the purview of the Auditor General and their accounts were not subjected to Parliamentary oversight, the training workshop was critical to familiarise Members of PAC with the accounting environment for local authorities and also the reporting frameworks. The workshop was held in August 2016.
The training workshop was preceded by the oral evidence session which was held in Bulawayo on 22 August 2016. This is the first time Council officials had interfaced with the Committee and the kind of questioning they were subjected to, was an awakening call that it was no longer business as usual. The Council submitted further written submissions whilst the Committee was in Bulawayo. This Report is therefore an outcome of the Committee’s analysis of the oral and written submissions and as highlighted earlier on, Council had since taken corrective action on most of the issues raised in the audits.
4.0 FINDINGS AND OBSERVATIONS BY THE
COMMITTEE
4.1 Absence of Supporting Documents for Industrial
Attachment Expenses (2009)
The audit observed on the 2009 accounts that Industrial attachment expenses amounting to $3 781 were paid without any supporting documentation. In the absence of such documentation, there was no assurance that the payments were a proper charge against Council funds and fraudulent activities and unauthorised expenditure may occur and remain undetected.
The Finance Director informed the Committee that departments used to hire students on attachment on their own and would keep records and just submit names for payment. As a result, records could not be immediately availed when requested especially that the audit was taking place years later. To curb recurrences, they have centralised industrial attachment engagements within the Human Resources Department.
Subsequent to the hearing, Council submitted vouchers supported by memoranda of agreements in respect of attachments as supporting documents. The supporting documents have been recomputed and they add up to $3 781 and as such, the matter had been satisfactorily resolved.
4.2 Unreconciled differences of $486 986 and $104 486 for
Kingdom Bank. - 2010
The Audit observed on the Bank reconciliation statements that reconciliations for significant balances of $486 986 and $104 486 for the Kingdom Bank general expenses and salaries account respectively were not carried out. The Acting Town Clerk informed the Committee that some of the funds were embezzled by a clerk who had since resigned from the service of the Council after the matter was discovered. The matter was handled through the courts and Council was in the process of recovering the embezzled funds.
The Finance Director informed the Committee that apart from the embezzled funds, all the outstanding amounts were reconciled. After the hearing, Council availed supporting documentation which showed that the figures were reconciled and as such, the matter has been resolved.
4.3 Failure to perform monthly reconciliations between payroll summaries and the general ledger in 2010 and 2011
The Council failed to perform monthly reconciliations between the payroll summaries and the general ledger, resulting in variances of $345 236 and $963 108 in 2010 and 2011 respectively. The Council highlighted to the Committee that it would run the payroll in the system but payments would be made later. For instance, it would run a payroll in August and may be pay in October. Meanwhile, circumstances would have changed such that what was run in the system varies from what was eventually paid out, hence the variances. These variances would occur because the Council was not doing the reconciliations on a monthly basis as is the standard.
The Committee noted with concern that there was laxity on the part of management. Officers responsible for monthly reconciliations were not being adequately supervised. Council indicated that the variance was investigated and resolved after the matter was raised by audit. Supporting documentation was availed after the meeting and the matter has therefore been resolved. The Acting Town Clerk assured the Committee that monthly reconciliations were being done and that the matter would not recur in future.
4.4 Purchase of Ambulances and Vehicle trackers, 2010
A tender was awarded to a local supplier for the supply of ambulances amounting to $205 106 during the year ended December 31, 2010. The supplier was paid in advance. As at December 31, 2013, the ambulances in question had not been received. In addition, vehicle trackers amounting to $100 000 were paid for in advance and had not been delivered to Council at the time of audit in 2014.
The Acting Town Clerk informed the Committee that the contract with the supplier, Axis Medical Corporation Limited, was for four (4) ambulances and was done through a Municipality Procurement Board. Most suppliers at that time were requesting for advance payment since they did not have capital and half of the amount which is the amount in question was paid. The supplier disappeared and the Council pursued the matter in the Courts and got a judgment under case No. HC231/2011 to recover the actual amount from the supplier. Efforts to execute the judgment were fruitless after they found the offices in Harare deserted and engagement of trackers did not yield any results.
Regarding vehicle trackers, they awarded the contract and they paid an advance against a bank guarantee. However, the supplier disappeared and they pursued the case in the civil courts and they again had the judgement but the supplier, Trackat, also from Harare had as well vanished. The City did not call on the bank guarantee until the period expired. The procurement policy allows them to pay in advance for bank guaranteed purchases.
Again, the Committee noted with concern the level of maladministration in the City of Bulawayo demonstrated by failure by officials to follow up a Bank guarantee until it expired. This was a recourse, in respect of Track at Company, a supplier of vehicle trackers who was paid and eventually failed to deliver the goods.
4.4.1 The Committee recommended that by 30 March, 2017, the Council should institute disciplinary action against the officials responsible for the transactions for negligent of duty.
4.5 Cash reconciliations, 2010
The Audit observed that the cash account on the general ledger was not being reconciled to the physical cash in the vault. This resulted in a variance of $1 238 818 between the general ledger and physical cash balance. The revenue hall bank statement, which should have been the only control around the physical cash receipts and reconciliation process, was not updated timeously. On further enquiry, management updated the revenue hall bank statement to a balance of $39.
Council indicated that they had since disbanded the vault and all payments are being done through the banking system. It indicated that the variance was also investigated and cleared.
4.6 Supporting documentation, 2010 and 2011
Auditors were not provided with expenditure supporting documents for repairs and maintenance and general expenses amounting to $151 504 and $179 396 respectively. Under such an environment, funds could be misappropriated without the system detecting.
Council officials admitted that there was a problem of poor records keeping and as a result, some records were lost. This was compounded by doing audits out of time as key information was lost along the way. They indicated that documentation is also requested by other authorities such as ZIMRA and in some instances they are not then followed up. As corrective action, they now request two copies of invoices from service providers. They have also purchased scanners for all key points such that invoices and other documents supporting payments are scanned and stored in the system. Furthermore, the Finance section had been instructed to maintain both a manual and electronic register of all documents to keep track of financial records.
The Committee expressed concern on the extent of poor record keeping exhibited in the Bulawayo Council. Given that they were behind in auditing their books, there was therefore a greater need for proper record keeping to ensure that such documents are in place whenever they are required for audit purposes. The PFMA is very clear that such documentation should be availed to the auditors whenever they are requested. This kind of behaviour by Council officials points to weaknesses in terms of the PFMA when it comes to penalties for failure to avail information for audit. There are no clear consequences for failure to avail such audit evidence.
4.6.1 The Committee recommends that by 30 April 2017, Treasury should spell out in regulations, stiffer penalties for Finance directors who fail to avail information for audit purposes.
4.7 Disciplinary procedure, 2010 and 2011
The Audit observed that Council funds estimated to $76 000 were embezzled by an assistant accountant. The accused employee was dismissed and signed an agreement to repay the embezzled amount effectively treating the embezzlement like a loan.
There was no evidence that proper legal proceedings were followed to ensure that the perpetrator was apprehended by law as charges were withdrawn after the repayment agreement was signed. This undermines the importance of organisational ethics in the eyes of employees.
The Acting Clerk informed the Committee that Council instituted both criminal and civil proceedings at the advice of the Chamber Secretary. She indicated that after the matter was unearthed, the officer concerned immediately resigned from the service of Council to escape dismissal. Council proceeded to the Civil Court to sue her for the recovery of the outstanding amounts. She pointed out that it was case Number HC1705 of 2012 and they got judgment in the sum of $43 833.87 against the staff member. The matter was unearthed by internal audit.
In terms of recovering the embezzled funds, the Committee was informed that the officer ceded her Local Authorities Pension Fund
(LAPF) benefits to the Council but unfortunately LAPF is also not up to date in payments. It has however confirmed to Council that it would pay when funds become available as the officer had total benefits amounting to $69 000. She also ceded her Old Mutual amount because she had an investment with Old Mutual as well, to the tune of $17 000.00. Regarding the criminal proceedings, the Committee was informed that the case was reported at the CID Fraud Section and thereafter, several trial dates were set up until the Council lost track of the matter. Initially she was put in remand and then released. Council was advised that they would proceed by way of summons. Since then, there was no progress on the matter.
The Committee noted with concern that the criminal side of the matter has not been pursued with much vigour and this might actually encourage other officials to swindle public funds.
4.7.1 The Committee recommends that Council should with immediate effect vigorously pursue the criminal case and ensure that the culprit is brought to book. This would deter others in future.
4.8 General Observation
4.8.1 The Committee is of the view that with fully integrated financial system, it is possible in the modern world to produce accounts at the click of a button. If Council transactions are done through such a system as opposed to manual processes, a lot of irregularities highlighted in the 2010 and 2011 accounts could be avoided.
4.8.1.1The Committee recommends, the Auditor General in the current year audits, to audit the system being used by the local authority. This will enable the Committee to make informed recommendations regarding the system being used by the local authority.
4.8.1.2Treasury should, by 30 June 2017, give guidance on the migration of local authorities from the current fund accounting reporting framework stipulated by Urban Councils Act to International Public Sector Accounting Standard (IPSAS) which is the generally acceptable standard stipulated by the PFMA.
4.8.1.3 Treasury should also, by end of the first quarter of 2017, puts in motion the process of aligning the Urban Councils Act and the Rural District Councils Act to the PFMA and the Constitution.
5.0 Conclusion
The Committee is pleased to note that by the time of concluding the enquiry on the Bulawayo City Council 2010 and 2011 accounts, the City had taken corrective action on most of the issues that were raised during the Audit. This is an indication that it is within their capacity to avoid the irregularities observed, by ensuring that they produce unqualified accounts. The Committee, therefore, concluded that there is a culture of non-performance embedded in the local authority since there are no consequences for non-performing. Audit is also not taken seriously in the local authority since again there are no consequences for issues raised in audits or even missing deadlines for submission of accounts for audits. The Committee recommends that the Council should be proactive in its day to day administration of Council funds to curb recurrences of observations in future. Production of accounts within the stipulated time frame and the quality of audits should be part of the performance contract for the Finance Director in Council. Failure in that regard, the employment contract should be revisited. I thank you. HON. CROSS: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir for
affording me this opportunity to contribute to this debate to follow up my Chairperson presentation this afternoon.
The first observation I would make is that, to look at a set of accounts which is six years old is largely irrelevant because things have changed so much in the intermediate years. Nevertheless, this is a very good start in terms of bringing the situation in local authorities under the control of Central Government. I think that the job that the AuditorGeneral is doing in the local authorities is exceptional. In a very short space of time, she has been able to get on top of the whole exercise and has started to bring the standard of auditing and accounting in all local authorities up to some kind of an agreed standard.
What happened previous to her intervention, I do not know but certainly in the Public Accounts Committee we have seen a considerable improvement. The question of the importance of local authorities is underestimated in Government. The truth is that Parliament does not deliver roads, health, welfare and education services to the people. We do not repair roads, it is the local authorities that do that. I think that we have to pay much more attention to local authorities in the future and perhaps this is a good start. The problems of local authorities are mainly financial with 40% of the revenue of Bulawayo City Council coming from sales of water and about 50% from rates.
One other thing that is not covered in our report but which we noted during our visit to Bulawayo is the fact that on the rates side, the
Bulawayo City Council has been able to increase the coverage of rates in Bulawayo to 100%. In other words, all homes, buildings and property in Bulawayo are now properly rated. This has resulted in this year, under today’s conditions, on a substantial increase in rates income. I think this is a significant achievement when other local authorities are reporting significant decline in income. In fact, Bulawayo City Council this year, in the circumstances under which we are operating, has seen a significant increase in rates income.
The second problem is the question of water management. Bulawayo City Council has a very long history of good management of water. Even so, Mr. Speaker Sir, more than 40% of the clean water reaching Bulawayo’s residents is in fact being wasted through leakages of one kind or another. Gradually, this situation is being brought under control by a system in Bulawayo which other local authorities, should implement.
There is continuing problem of raw water supplies in Bulawayo; we have not built a new dam for Bulawayo for more than 20 years. Historically, Bulawayo City Council has had the responsibility for its own bulk water supplies and this was not the responsibility of ZINWA under this regime, the city built a dam roughly every five years. The five dams which supply Bulawayo City Council were constructed by the
City itself.
This situation means that Bulawayo is always in a situation of water insecurity and I think this is a matter we have talked about in ad nauseum Government for too long, it is time this matter was given attention. As far as the council is concerned; they reported to us that they saw the future in Bulawayo as being in the various aquifers to the north of the City, already supplying the city with about 15% of its consumption and they think that ultimately the aquifers could provide more than 60%.
Then there is the question of staffing and salaries; Mr. Speaker, it was extremely encouraging to see that Bulawayo City Council is only spending 40% of its revenue on salaries compared to over 100% of Central Government and in Harare 70%. They are the only City Council in the country which is close to observing the required 30% on salaries and 70% on services. This has been achieved largely through the efforts of the council itself. The Town Clerk in Bulawayo, for example, receives about US$7 500 a month compared to Harare where the Town Clerk was thirty over several thousand dollars a month. Harare City Council has a problem in the sense that their salary scales are completely out of kilter with the realities on the ground. Bulawayo City Council is more or less in compliance and therefore they are relatively up to date with their salaries and other payments.
I must say we were very impressed with the Acting Clerk in
Bulawayo; she has now been replaced with a permanent Town Clerk. She and her staff really did an excellent job in presentation and seem to be on top of their responsibilities. Two issues really concerned us; first the question of prepayments to contractors who did not deliver the products for which they were contracted. This shows a fundamental weakness in procurement policies and principles. I hope that with the new procurement policies which is now being implemented, these will be corrected but it represents a complete loss of revenues to the City Council of significant fund.
The second major concern is the question of not taking disciplinary action in time against delinquent members of staff. If a member of staff steals US$76 000 from you, they should be in jail within a week – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – There should be no hesitation on the part of the authorities to take action. Even if the individual concerned has accepted responsibility and agrees to pay back, if they are involved in criminal activities on this scale, they should be punished for it. I must say in that respect, we found the Bulawayo City Council delinquent.
I hope now, Mr. Speaker, given the fact that they have been subject to a public hearing with the Committee that this sort of practice will not recur in future. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. First and foremost, I would want to thank the Committee chaired by Hon. Mpariwa for the report that the Committee is tabling on the state of affairs in the Bulawayo City Council. The major issue was that the majority of the people that were employed by Bulawayo City Council were in a non substantive capacity and the majority of them did not have the relevant qualifications. The majority of them pretended not to be knowledgeable so that they could use that as an excuse to steal money to such an extent that if you were to ask one how they accounted for these monies, they knew the money was stolen. We then went to look at their academic and professional qualifications, there was no such indication in their records. We believe that this occurred during the GNU period when the majority of the people were employed on trial, either on nepotism – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Mr. Speaker Sir, the books of accounts, if we were to seriously consider why there were no monthly reconciliations, you could see that the balance in the bank and what was on books did not tally. There were no proper accounting systems followed. This was used as an excuse for stealing funds and they laid the blame on the person whom they then claimed dead or whom they knew is no longer with the council. No one was arrested by the police. There was no evidence as to what then happened after the person had been arrested by the police. There was no evidence of any disciplinary action taken against the employee even if the employee was in a position to refund the money; no such steps were taken to recover such monies.
Bulawayo City Council did not have an asset register, which meant that they did not know what they were accruing in the form of rents, what type of buildings they have and what funding or income was being derived from such properties. That led to a weakness whereby a duplication of books of accounts could be done where people could be using a second book to steal money.
If you look at the issue of the supply or purchase of an ambulance, there are certain briefcase companies that were awarded the tender to supply the ambulance. Such issues caused a lot of revenue loss to the City Council because the person did not have a tenure address and they did not know where that person was resident. What surprises me is that there are big companies in Bulawayo which are capable of supplying motor vehicles. A person that was awarded a tender is Harare based. His address is unknown, despite the fact that there are decent companies in Bulawayo that could have supplied that tender. I earlier on said that there are people who pretend to be silly so as to ensure they steal money.
Council audits take a lot of time to then correct a lot of the imbalances in the city councils. Those are 2010 accounts and in 2017 we are now debating the issue. Others would have lost the job or died because of AIDS. So it becomes difficult for them to be traced and arrested. What also showed us that things were not well is that we observed that despite councils making a lot of money from beer halls, like Harare City Council; at the time when we grew up in the Magaba and Mapitikoti areas of Mbare, councils used to make a lot of money. A lot of councils that have people with Masters Degrees are now renting out these beer halls; it shows a failure by the council employees.
It is also true that a lot of people who are renting these beer halls are making a lot of money by sub-letting, when they will be leasing at a nominal fee. As a result the council is deprived of income. The money that is supposed to benefit the council ends in the pockets of an individual. By so doing it cripples the income generating capacity of the city councils. This is the corruption that we saw in most cases in
Bulawayo City Council. A person who could not account for $76 000, that person is a seasoned thief. If these people are allowed to repay in installments without interest, it would show that those ‘big fish’ who were not arrested were also part and parcel of this corruption. People were actually set free because of their totem for instance the Museyamwas, the eland tribe, were set free.
This was prevalent in Bulawayo. It is a tip of the iceberg in terms of corruption. Corruption is rife in city councils. In Chitungwiza and other areas, we found out that the leader or the Head of the council does not even have an Ordinary Level or Junior Certificate, but without even Grade Seven, they were awarded a job. Even if they passed Grade Seven, they would have two qualifications, the birth certificate and the house rental. As a result, the country will not progress. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for granting me this opportunity to add my views on this motion.
HON. CHASI: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I would like to first of all commend the Committee for a very detailed report and also to thank the Auditor General’s department. I think it is one of our star performers in Government and a department that helps us in our oversight function.
Firstly, I think we need to empower the Auditor General’s department, if we are going to effectively carry out our oversight function. The fact that we are actually looking at 2010/2014 figures, I think attests to what I am saying. Some of the employees that we are looking at or talking about at the moment have either retired, are deceased, have been dismissed or have simply resigned. So, to some of them there is no truth in saying mhosva haiwori. Inowora because they have left, you cannot locate them. They have stolen and some of the companies who were paid in advance cannot be located. So mhosva yacho yatorova zveshuwa, they will not be found. They have gone away with a lot of money.
Mr. Speaker, Bulawayo City Council traditionally is one of our best run councils in this country. Some of the things that have been happening there, that we have heard from the report are quite disconcerting. However, it is quite pleasing to learn that council officials have responded positively to some of the criticisms that have been leveled against them. I would like to suggest that in terms of alignment, the Committee has suggested that there is an urgent need that the Local Authorities Legislation be quickly brought into alignment with the Public Finance Management Act, given some of the shortcomings that have been experienced in terms of the management of local authorities.
Maybe this is a matter that needs to be brought to the attention of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, given the shortcomings that have been mentioned here.
The unreconciled amounts, I think appear to be considerably significant. It is however quite pleasing to note that the recoveries appear to have been made but it is also shocking that council seems to have taken a somewhat lackluster position concerning its attitude towards those that have stolen money from council, in terms of reporting matters to police or taking legal action against them. It is probably necessary that they be banned from making advance payments and one cannot fail to suggest that maybe there was collusion between council officials and those companies to whom advance payments were made.
In conclusion, the Auditor General must be commended for the great work that she is doing and that Government probably needs to give the department more resources in terms of personnel and maybe vehicles, so that Parliament and Government in its generality can be empowered in order to oversee Government departments. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, just to inform Hon. Members that the report presented by Hon. Mpariwa has been put into your pigeon holes so that you can refresh your minds before coming to debate tomorrow and Thursday.
HON. SANSOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to point out, first of all that the audit of Bulawayo City Council was conducted about three to five years after the end of the financial years in question. The auditors actually found that most of the issues raised have been rectified at the time of audit. From experience, I found the audits to fall into two categories; the difficult audits and the pleasurable audits. I think the auditors must have found the Bulawayo City Council audit to be a pleasurable audit because they took corrective action when things went wrong. If you look at the major recommendations, you will find that they have to do with first of all, use of ICT systems, realigning legislation - that is the Urban Councils Act, the Rural District Councils Act to bring it in line with the Public Finance Management Act. They have to do with migrating from fund accounting to International Public Sector Accounting Standards (IPSAS).
Basically, they are recommending that council migrates to a more modern system that properly accounts for assets. The major shortcoming of fund accounting is that fixed assets are written off in the year of purchase. They are not properly accounted for and do not properly reflect at the true value in the financial statements. That is the major recommendation and that applies across all local authorities. All local authorities in the country use fund accounting and they are migrating to IPSAS. You cannot pin that as a shortcoming on the part of the Bulawayo City Council.
The absence of supporting documentation is a common occurrence in most local authorities. Without supporting documentation, it is impossible to verify that expenditure that is shown in financial statements is correct and that expenditure has been properly accounted for. The absence of documents to support revenue makes it difficult for auditors to verify that all revenue has been properly accounted for as required in terms of the Constitution. In the case of the Bulawayo City Council, most of the expenditure documents were eventually traced and located.
The only major shortcoming that we found was the situation where they paid for ambulances in advance and they paid for vehicle trackers in advance. At the time, it was a requirement by most suppliers to demand payment in advance. It brings to light the need for local procurement, because they were dealing with companies that were in Harare and they could not trace them afterwards. They could not be found at the addresses that they gave. If they had used a local supplier to source those vehicles, they would not have had that problem.
The bank reconciliations that were not done at Kingdom Bank were eventually done and the accounts were reconciled. Corrective action was taken for the embezzlement that was done by members of staff, although it is a practice that is not to be encouraged - that when people steal funds, they should be given time to pay back. That amounts to an unauthorised loan. On that score, the Bulawayo City Council was found wanting.
Regarding the use of the vault system, there was need at that time for council to maintain large amounts of cash to enable it to pay, because they were paying using cash. Otherwise that requirement then fell away when it was found that there were better systems of paying using RTGs and so forth, but we all appreciate that we have found ourselves in situations where we have had to make cash payments from our pockets or from businesses where businesses retain cash and use the same cash to pay out. That practice is being discouraged. The differences in the payroll summary were mainly due to timing differences that when payments were made, the variance would arise because of a later payment date.
I would like to say that, generally we found that Bulawayo City Council is better run in terms of financial management than most local authorities in the country. I would like to support the Committee’s recommendations in order to improve the internal control systems of Bulawayo City Council that generally are better than most local authorities. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Mr. Speaker Sir. I will not take too much of the time in debating except to perhaps speak to one main issue. This is one of our first Local Government Reports and what became very clear to us as a Committee is that we should have done this long before - because clearly, the lack of supervision and the lack of oversight on Local Government authorities had created a situation where local authorities did not think that they were answerable to anybody. I must say Mr. Speaker that part of the discussions that we were having with local authorities was to do with what they were using as accounting systems. We felt that this is true of most of the reports that we are going to be bringing here on local authorities. We found that one of the things that we complain about which is not having revenue is not really about not having revenue, it is about lack of systems. Lack of your billing systems and lack of knowing how many households you do have. We were trying to find out as we were speaking that with a proper system, it would be easy for anybody to ask a local authority to say, how many households do we have in Bulawayo and immediately be able to tell how much money you would be able to get.
With a proper billing system, you would have a situation where revenue would be coming in, even the rentals that my colleague Hon. Mapiki was talking about; all those things were a problem, not because of anything else but because of lack of systems. We are happy that our partners that the Committee is working with have indicated that they are going to be working with local authorities to begin to develop those systems. With those systems, we would be better able to manage local authorities.
In terms of Bulawayo Mr. Speaker, the reason why I stood up is merely because of one issue, that is the issue of procurement. Two issues arise on the issue of procurement. The first one is and I do not know why we have a problem with institutions following what is in the Constitution. I know that we brought here a Procurement Bill that is not an Act yet, that will make it much easier for us to push and make sure that local authorities follow systems for procurement. Even before we have that particular Act Mr. Speaker, we have the Constitution that provides for us a framework for which procurement should happen. For example, our Section 18 on Fair Regional Representation, it states, “the State and all institutions and agencies of State and Government at every level must take practical measures to ensure that all local communities have equitable access to resources to promote their development” and of course 264, which is our devolution.
In reality, local authorities do have a framework in which to operate. What we saw about those issues of procurement simply was that no one is following this. The Bulawayo City Council had an option to look for people that could provide the ambulances and all the other things that they procured from Bulawayo, but all the companies that they used were from Harare. Because they were from Harare, they had not done due diligence. By the time they could not be paid, they could not find these people and you are sitting there saying you are a Bulawayo local authority. The resources that you have are coming from local communities. Can somebody explain why for God’s sake you believe that the people that should benefit from those processes should be coming from Harare?
So, as somebody who comes from that region, I sit there and I say, day-in day-out, we are coming to this House Mr. Speaker, to complain about issues of marginalisation and that we are not getting tenders that are being floated at a national level. This is even more upsetting because here is a tender to which a local authority has the obligation or power and authority to make a decision to look for those that are in their local communities, but no, they will come again to Harare. As if that is not enough, you will use standards which are open to manipulation. For example, it is clear that if you are going to give somebody a tender, you will say to them give us a Government guarantee. In the first instance, there was not even a Government guarantee. In the second instance, there was a Government guarantee but they did not even follow to say this is the period to which we should have been paid, let us go and reactivate the Government guarantee. For all intent and purposes, one sits there and says clearly there is collusion.
The reason why you are not looking for people in your own communities is because you actually want to deliberately find people who do not live in those communities so that you can collude in corruption. For some of us, that was the most disappointing issue and I must note that one of the other disappointing issues and this is across local authorities as we deal with them. Your Committee, as it goes out to do these Public Hearings; one would be expecting that your own councillors come to these hearings so that they sit in to hear what their own officials are saying. In Bulawayo, I think we only had the Mayor if my memory saves me right. Councillors did not come. You are the representatives of the people but you do not even come to participate in the processes. So, how are we going to be sure that even as you sit in that council you are doing due diligence to make sure that these things do not happen.
Like I said Mr. Speaker, the reason why I stood up is that day-in day-out, when I am in Bulawayo and I am being stopped in the streets, the complaints are that we are marginalised and resources do not come from here. This was a typical example of people who themselves sit in that local authority and had the authority to do what they were supposed to do but who deliberately decided that they were going to take hard earned resources from their own people, fly them to Harare. This makes some of us very upset. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
+ HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to applaud the
Committee of Public Accounts for the report that they presented which reflects work that was done diligently, especially on things that are happening in urban areas like Bulawayo. When we grew up, Bulawayo was known to be a clean city among all other cities in Zimbabwe. It was a city that was well-known for its leadership which was so committed to what it did. It is disheartening to realise all these things, particularly those that were highlighted in this report. We all know that when you are trying to source a consignment, you have to do comparative schedules and make background checks on the service providers that you want to engage. When you are holding public funds, it is true that you cannot just source service providers without knowing the background of the service provider that you are engaging. This is one thing that brings corruption. You cannot be someone who is employed, especially handling finances and fail to look at such critical issues.
One thing that people who are in public office should take note of is that these are public funds that are supposed to be used wisely. One other thing that has to do with the issue of sourcing for service providers especially by the council is that when you hold meetings as council, this is where discussions on how to handle finances are supposed to take place. I think this is where the problem emanates from.
Why I am saying this Mr. Speaker is that, I realise that all the Hon. Members of Parliament scrutinise policies. It is also important that we cascade the issue of looking at policies to the councils as well so that they can fully understand what it means to hold such offices.
I believe that people like Town Clerks, Director Engineering and Housing, are people who are employed based on their highest qualifications that we know they would have attained. These are the people who should have a reputation in their work history but you realise that, especially with what is happening these days, the councils are the ones who want to know how the technocrats work. This is what is causing all these problems Mr. Speaker Sir, especially those faced by urban areas.
I know that the Government has rules and procedures that are supposed to be followed, especially when sourcing for a tender. It is surprising that in such a beautiful city like Bulawayo, such issues are not considered. These are the works that have brought corruption especially in our country. It is disheartening to note that last year, the City of Bulawayo that we love so much was filled with corruption, which was also revealed in the newspapers. Most of the tenders that are acquired that have to do with any equipment to be used within the city are not done properly.
As Parliament, we should try and come up with proper procedures that have to be followed, especially on acquiring of a tender in cities. At the end of the day, people might think that as Parliament, we are trying to take over what the councils ought to be doing but we will only be trying to correct things, especially those that bring corruption. Some of these people are after things that only benefit them and at the end of the day, they bring their friends as service providers. As a result, we face such situations like what happened and in the end, you fail to find that person who was awarded that tender. Why should we have a situation like the one for Lobengula whereby we failed to know where exactly he went to? It is disheartening to realise that such issues are not followed up properly.
I would like to congratulate the Committee for doing such great work and commend that they carry out such audits almost every year so that we try and fight this corruption, especially when it comes to do with issues of public funds. I have noticed that these days, what the council does is to disconnect water especially to those with arrears, which is something that they are not supposed to be doing. This is because people who are supposed to be paying for the services are no longer paying because they have no trust for council. At the end of the day, they believe that it is better off not to pay than to give to people who will fail to know how to use the funds that they have paid. If only we can have such Committees and when they visit all the cities, they should also try and inform the citizens of that community on what exactly they would have managed to find out in their fact-finding visits. Even in our National Anthem, we state that all the leaders should be of integrity and I know that most of our Members are taking note of this and are learning from what the Committee said that all the leaders should be leaders of integrity. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, two weeks ago, you
were saying we should be gender sensitive and I do not see any Hon. female Members rising – where are they. Out of the five Members who have debated, only one lady has debated. So next time, do not accuse the Chair.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to debate on the report by Hon. Mpariwa and Hon. Cross. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is my hope that Hon. Mpariwa and Hon Cross can also pay attention to my debate, aware that they have presented this report which is very crucial and important.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is an issue that I need first and foremost to touch on. We are all creatures of the Constitution and as a nation, we are viewed by the way we uphold our own Constitution. As it has been said in Section 309 (2) (a) – that the Auditor-General is now taking route in terms of auditing all financials in the urban councils and in all Rural District Councils and this is applauded. Mr. Speaker Sir, I need to bring to your attention and to your awareness that we have just come from a half - day Conference where UNDP was actually churning out their mandate, how they are empowering and how they are solidifying parliamentary processes in order that we avert, avoid and eradicate all forms of corruption and revenue leakages in all other sectors that are accountable to Parliament. It is my fervent hope that UNDP can bolster and also strengthen the office of the Auditor-General to this effect that immediately when the Auditor-General embarks on a fact finding mission and they find flaws and faults in any organisation, immediately, the Committee on Public Accounts and the law enforcement agencies should interrogate the Auditor-General’s report; whoever is found on the wrong side is immediately arrested and incarcerated.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is also in that view that because of this report that has had so many glaring issues because of an archaic way of dealing with modern day issues, we need to embrace ICT and get out of the BBC mode (Born Before Computers Mode) so that we increase revenue generation and plug revenue leakages. I want to draw parallels to this report and to the modus operandi in Bulawayo to that of Chegutu West and other local authorities. You will find that, because we are not embracing ICT in terms of revenue generation and dealing with our administrative issues using information communication technology which is modern; because we are not going that route Mr. Speaker Sir, we are still fraught with a lot of paper trail and with ubiquitous amount and piles and piles of manual receipting and all that. As Hon. Mapiki alluded to, this is done solely so that there can be ways of circumventing authority and ways of making sure that people pilfer from the coffers of the unsuspecting innocent citizenry which we as local authorities oversight are supposed to be protecting.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want at this juncture also to applaud the new
Town Clerk of Bulawayo. Aware also that he is coming in from Victoria Falls which is an equally good City which has standards second to none and which are global in nature, as it is embedded with one of the seven wonders of the world; I am hoping Mr. Speaker that he brings to Bulawayo, the global initiatives so that they can embrace the ICT which I believe is also embedded in Victoria Falls.
I also want to give a solution - aware that the budget of 2017/2018 speaks to amongst other things, domestic resource mobilisation, Mr. Speaker Sir, yours truly is the Chairman of the Transport and
Infrastructure Development Committee. I would suggest to the City Council of Bulawayo that they have a lot of good roads which are very spacious, so much elongated, are a beauty and marvel of any other local authority. It is my clarion call to that local authority that they can use some of the monies that are generated from parking fees to plough them back to maintain, rehabilitate and reconstruct their road network which, like I have said, is certainly an envy of a lot of local authorities, including Chegutu. To also add Mr. Speaker, we are also on the path to try and make sure that we emulate what we have seen in Bulawayo City Council to try and get a cure in terms of maintenance of their road network. So for their carriageway markings and lighting, if they can utilise the monies received from billboard advertising, monies taken from parking fees and monies generated from ICT to plough back to their infrastructure development.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I have said – one does not want to reinvent the wheel. If we can digress and come out of the silo mentality which is the one that is causing local authorities, including Bulawayo City Council, to continue to be moribund in their ways of dealing with the administrative issues; the same Auditor-General came into Chegutu in 2015and found that there were flaws in terms of their administration and revenue collection, generation and upkeep of that revenue because we are still manually related in terms of dealing with financial issues. That is done solely so that the administration of any council can circumvent and continue to put their fingers and their hand and dip them in the cookie jar. Because of this report, we need to make a stand. If we cannot arrest or cause anybody to be arrested immediately because maybe of the prescription period that has expired, the period 2010 to date, which is seven years, Mr. Speaker Sir, at least let us cause the change of mindsets. Let us remove the silo mentality, let us integrate
all systems in order to avert, maybe to completely annihilate that antiquated way of dealing with modern day issues.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the only way that we can send a strong message to would be offenders in the future before the Auditor General has embarked on her fact finding mission and on her reports, the only way we can send a very clear message that this cannot be tolerated in particular where we are supposed to plough back that revenue we have collected from the residents back to service delivery, is by making sure that any report that is found to be flawed, that is pregnant with irregularities, should certainly have the accounting officer face the exit. It is lucky that the previous accounting officer, whose term and tenure was during this 2010 and 2011 audit report, is no longer with the council Mr. Speaker Sir. Otherwise for those that are still in their tenures, they should immediately vacate office so that we have no repeat processes of this delinquent behaviour.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am also aware that there are people that are in offices who are not qualified to be in those offices. Why are the monies that are received from residents and rate payers not remitted where they are supposed to be? It is because the administrators are not qualified in the manner that they are supposed to be qualified. If they are qualified, the reason they do not raise alarm bells is because either they are naive, they are involved or they are the ones that are in the forefront of this daylight robbery in these local authorities.
Therefore, it should be interrogated because of this report; the issues of qualifications of accounting officers, be they in Rural District Council or be they in the urban councils so that because of this report, it should cause an immediate expulsion and cause an immediate rejuvenation of those positions in order that we have square plugs in square holes, not square plugs in round holes.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I conclude, it was brought to this House’s attention that a certain percentage of water supply goes down to the rate payers in Bulawayo. In particular, this was brought about by Hon. Cross. In Chegutu where I draw parallels, we should learn from those that are at least giving back to the rate payers in terms of service delivery. There is a ubiquitous amount of water and copious of it, Mr. Speaker Sir, to say the least, but there is no treated water trickling down to the rate payers so that we can avoid and avert the scourge of cholera and typhoid which is termed a primitive disease.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this is not a laughing matter. Even the Bible says,
“the year that King Hosiah died, I saw the Lord”. Today, this report was presented here. Chegutu should be transformed because of this report; Harare should be transformed because of this report. Immediately, what we are going to propose as solutions to Bulawayo should be double where there is no service delivery in places such as Chegutu.
Immediately, I call for the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to descend on Chegutu and make sure they work on the 2015 Auditor General’s Report, and expeditiously excavate and remove from the entrenched position of authority of the accounting officers, the CEO in particular or the Town Clerk so that we have a rejuvenated town council we have limited work for the Member of
Parliament in that area, and we have good service delivery to the people of Chegutu who are crying for 22 mega litres and are having only 12 mega litres.
Mr. Speaker Sir, given this time, I want to thank you for this opportunity to debate vociferously, effectively and efficiently on this report. I thank you – [Laughter.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order can the Hon. Member be
heard in silence please.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Committee that has brought this report, quite a good report. I would also like to thank all those who have spoken before me. Mine is going to be very short. I shall speak from the heart because what I am going to talk about here is what I have experienced for eight years when I was an executive mayor of the town of Kadoma.
What has been spoken here, I think is just a tip of the iceberg. It is true that Bulawayo had the best run council in this country. I know that because I was once the President of Urban Councils. We are missing the times of the old mayors of Bulawayo, like the late Naison Ndlovu. We are missing the likes of Siwela. We are missing the likes of Malinga and all those other former mayors. They ran that council quite well. Yes, there are some who came after, have done their best, but the report tells us a lot from 2009.
Councils need to be promoted. Councils need finance. Every one of us here and all those outside, even the President himself comes from a local authority. Every one of us here has taken a bath; every one of us here has visited the good room, every one of us here has taken a meal.
Everyone of us here has travelled on a road done by a local authority. So they need our support. But before we support them, they must put their systems in order. I do not understand when we talk of a local authority which is not reconciling its books every month then you say it was this and that. There is something wrong. When we hear of a local authority that tenders for an ambulance and at the end of the day, they do not get what they paid for, there is something wrong. It is so bad that we hear that a local authority is failing to pay its own workers. This is because there are no monthly reconciliations.
The Urban Councils Act is very clear on Section 285 on what should be done. Therefore, when a local authority fails to go by the law, then it is acting unlawfully and action should be taken. We cannot have somebody stealing from a local authority and at the end, you see him every day. There is something wrong.
I have said that local authorities are failing to pay their workers; worse still, they are failing to pay for pension for their workers that have retired. Right now, there are some people who are going after retiring and they have nothing. The workers go to the local authority’s pension fund to get their monies but the money is not there after someone has
retired.
Our problem is that our local authorities have become so politicized that the councillors are not making their own decisions. They end up at Harvest House for assistance - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- I want to repeat this. Can I say that again? - [HON.
MEMBERS: Yeees!]- Our problem is that our local authorities systems have been so politicized that the councillors are no longer taking their own decisions. They are taking decisions from their headquarters – Harvest House. As long as our local authorities take decisions from somewhere else, then we have a problem - party politics outside.
My last point Mr. Speaker Sir, I have said that local authorities need to be funded. They cannot operate on their own without funding from Government. Let us give the local authorities the money that has been promised to them. If at all there is not enough money, they should be given the little amount that is there. Yes, I know that in some local authorities, we have cities, towns, rural councils and so on. Most of our towns graduate from a local board to a town, to a municipality and to a city. The graduation goes with money. Our people are complaining that the status that some of the cities have taken – they are no longer cities. Some of them have turned into villages. People are paying rates that do not go along with their status. In some towns where they have got the city status, they are supposed to be paying rates but the rates are no longer rates because of the failure to sufficiently give the people water, good roads and so on. The cities have turned into local boards.
Therefore, these supposed cities should now be downgraded to towns so that people pay according to what they are getting. You cannot pay rates for a city when the status now is a village. I rest my case.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me an opportunity to also debate on this important report that is seeing my colleagues to move out.
Hon. Speaker, it is important especially to speak immediately after a former executive mayor who used to report at Harvest House for decisions that he was making at Kadoma Municipality.
The importance of this report is that it exposes certain things that are happening in our governance, albeit at local level but the importance of this report is that it reveals what is happening at a sub-set of the total set. I believe that the local authority is merely a sub-set of the whole set. It is a reflection of what subsists in the whole set. I believe that local authorities are merely samples of the type and extend of governance that we have in the country. They reflect us. They reflect our systems as a country. Bulawayo City Council has been used only as an example but I believe that we can generalize the findings that are made against Bulawayo City Council in almost all local authorities and even we go up to the national level; to central governance.
Besides the figures that are coming out of this report, there are certain observations that we need to make as a country, have a serious introspection and chat a new way in which we have to deal with usage of public resources. The first observation that I am going to make is on the culture of entitlement that prevails in the country. The report indicates that there were employees of Bulawayo City Council that abused or did not use the resources of the local authority properly and no punishment was exerted on them.
If we look at that and let me take it at the set level; I talked of it as a sub-set but let me look at it at the set level or the national level. That spirit of entitlement where a person can willy-nilly do whatever they do which is criminal and still they go scot free is not only found at local authorities. It is there at national level as well.
Hon. Speaker, I have tried to look into the records and discovered that since 1980 when we became an independent country, there is no one in the Executive or in senior offices that has been either convicted or merely prosecuted for abuse of State resources – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So, if this has been happening at national level, what would you expect at local level? The feeling is that if I as a parent in my family am misbehaving, I should not expect anything more from my little son or daughter. The level of misbehavior that I conduct is actually transmitted to my children. So, the behaviour that is seen in local authorities is a reflection of the entire behaviour of the central governance of this country.
Hon. Speaker, we are all aware like I indicated that in this country we have seen a lot of people that govern public resources being arrested and at times being released from police custody by powers that are supposed to protect the resources of this nation. I can speak of the Juma case of ZINARA, but I can also speak of the case of the Umguza RDC
Chief Executive Officer who Hon. Speaker, utilised public resources that were meant to make a road and that road was never made but the resources of the public were paid out. He was arrested, went to court but up to today, I think it is 4 or 5 years down the line, nothing has happened to that person, but he abused public resources. Even the court system can be jammed in this country in order to protect someone who is corrupt. So, when we see that happening in local authorities, as a nation we should not be surprised. Instead, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and say where have we gone wrong and where do we have to rectify the situation that we have.
Let me give you an example Hon. Speaker, to show you that this Bulawayo City Council issue is not only applicable to Bulawayo; it actually cascades throughout the country. Last year on 8th February, 2016, I wrote a report to the Minister of – what do you call this Minister who is responsible for rural local authorities – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Ndizvozvo zvawataura.] – The Minister that is responsible for local authorities, this Minister response for heritage whatever, I cannot cite the ministry –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, he is an Hon. Minister not this Minister.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am talking of the office not the individual Hon. Speaker. Anywhere the Hon. Minister responsible for Rural Development and Heritage, I cannot fully cite it. I took a letter to the Hon. Minister, indicating about specific areas of criminal activities that were taking place in a local authority where I highlighted a number of allegations that were coming out. I was requesting for an audit to be sent to check the books and check on the allegations that has been brought to me as a Member of Parliament.
Hon. Speaker, an audit team was sent and it verified the allegations, although I have not been favoured with the copy of the audit report, because the Hon. Minister feels that I should not be favoured with the report despite the fact that I am the complainant who went to alert him that there is corruption that is taking place at a local authority. In my view as a parliamentarian, when an Hon. Minister feels that I am not entitled to a copy of that report which I complained about, then it is a sign that the Hon. Minister is protecting corruption in a local authority.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, you
should know there are processes, if that report is not yet public, he cannot give it to you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I am not a member of the public. I am a Member of Parliament, besides, I am actually the complainant. I believe that in any set up, the essence of administrative justice is that if I come and report to you that there is a problem that is taking place, I should be entitled to a response. Let me say Hon. Minister, one of the allegations that I had laid in that report was that management of that local authority...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Speaker not Hon.
Minister.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, one of the allegations that I had laid in that report was that managers of that local authority had gone to a bank in their personal capacities and borrowed money, thousands and thousands of United States dollars. The Chief Executive
Officer of that local authority instructed the Treasurer to pay using
Council resources; to pay back their personal loans, not Council loans. The audit report picked that up and to date, nothing has happened to those managers, including that CEO. So when we look at the Bulawayo City Council report. We should not be surprised, we should actually be able to reflect and say this is a sign of the culture of entitlement that we have adopted as a country and that we are running so hard with. We need to reflect on that Hon. Speaker and then say maybe it is time that we begin to stop. I am sure madam stop it should also say let us stop this spirit and culture of entitlement – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
-
Hon. Speaker, the other factor that I am seeing is that our system of supervising local authorities has been seriously corrupted and compromised. I think my colleague who was speaking was saying councils have become politicized, but I believe that it is the supervision of local authorities that have become seriously politicized. Let me dwell on this example that I have just given you. The CEO of that local authority is a Central Committee member, the Hon. Minister of Rural Development is a Central Committee member and therefore it appears there is nothing that the Hon. Minister can do to this person, that is politicization of administration structures of the State – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and this is the kind of thing that is killing this country Hon. Speaker.
That is the kind of thing that is killing this country whilst everybody else is watching – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Just name them, name it is Binga RDC.] – It is Binga RDC. It has to be on record because my complaint to the Hon. Minister was on record.
The supervision of local authorities has become – [AN. HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I am a former councilor myself Hon. Speaker and I really understand how politics has got itself into administration of councils, such that there is no longer any proper administration that is existing in councils. In council, management are running councils according to how related they are politically or otherwise with someone that is up there – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
They feel that as long as they are politically well linked or politically well inclined, nothing will happen to them. I have given you an example besides Binga RDC, there is also the Umguza RDC where the CEO squandered millions of public funds and has been in court, the court system has been jammed, nothing is happening and then you begin to ask yourself where will we get to as a country if we allow millions and millions of dollars being taken away in that kind of a manner.
What it means is that even if I become CEO of a local authority tomorrow, what I will do is to try and link myself with the those that are in political offices so that then I can squander resources in any manner that I would like. The other thing is that as political parties, especially governing political party; it is sad that a governing political party at times will get down to local authorities and start to use assets of local authorities in a manner that is not prescribed by law. The moment we begin to do that, we create a culture where instead of proper administration of councils, councils will be managed in a manner that is corrupt and that is meant to squander and abuse public resources, because they will always shield themselves behind political power.
I believe that, that is one of the reasons why we are seeing these situations that we are seeing now. Above that, when we look at the 2013 Constitution, it creates an element of autonomous entities - on behalf of local authorities and provincial councils. I think this micro-management kind of thing, where we then want to buy loyalty and allegiance from officers that are in councils by Central Government is uncalled for. We do not need it. What is happening now is that everybody at local level has to give loyalty and allegiance to someone up there, especially in the Central Government; in Ministries so that whatever errands they make against public resources, they would be untouchable. So, we have got a lot of untouchables in this country.
If they are arrested – I wish I was Hon. Nduna. I think this yellow light would not have gone on. Mr. Speaker, what I am basically saying is that let us reflect as a country. I call upon my leaders that are here, that as a country at times let us be selfless and give it to the country and say that let us try to do the best for the generations that are yet to come. This scenario where when people are arrested by law enforcement agencies, we simply go and tell them to release them, that is uncalled for. That is the worst kind of scenario that we can do. The next thing that we are going to expect is that the police will no longer arrest people. Let us also stop interfering in the operations of the justice system. Let us leave the justice system, as independent as it is. Let us not jam the justice system because the moment we interfere in the operations of the courts, then we are creating that culture of entitlement in everyone in this country.
As long as people are linked politically to someone who is strong, they will abuse resources in this country as much as they like. There is no where we are going to get to as a country. We will continue to drown in these economic problems that we have as a result of culture of bad governance. Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing me to speak.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 14th June, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that the House reverts to Order of the Day, Number 1.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 1) BILL
[H.B. 1, 2017]
First Order read: Second Reading: Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill [H. B. 1, 2017].
Question again proposed.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me at the outset to pay tribute to all the Hon. Members who have contributed to the debate generated by my Second Reading Speech on Constitutional Amendment Bill No. 1, 2017. I was encouraged by the application of their minds on the pros and cons of this Bill pertaining to the appointment procedure of the Chief Justice of the country in future. An extent which that will enhance the administration of justice and improve access to justice by our people and of course, the need to bring more clarity to Section 174 by providing an explicit provision to effect that the Labour Court and the Administrative Court are subordinate to the High Court.
Mr. Speaker, you may recall that in the second paragraph of my Second Reading Speech, I emphasised that the constitutional framework for judicial independence in any jurisdiction is paramount in determining the quality of justice delivery, access to justice and administration of justice. I also highlighted that these aspects are indeed intricately linked to the procedure of appointment of Heads of Judiciary and other Judges. Such appointments must be executed in a manner that does not compromise the constitutional, legislative, administrative values and etiquette expected of such crucial officials.
It is the procedure of these appointments which I firmly believe must be in tandem with international good practice and be subjected to proper administrative process, with no internal or external influence whatsoever. I went on to highlight that judicial independence can only be achieved when the constitutional bedrock on which such appointments are anchored is solid enough to arrest any mischief, perceptions and challenges that may arise in the administration of justice. This background is crucial, as it will be able to recall each and every one of us to order at any such time we will be tempted to be taken adrift by waves of our narrow partisan interests. Mr. Speaker, I have applied my mind on the contributions that were made by Hon. Members.
Such contributions will guide us during the amendment process.
I will start with findings and recommendations made by the Committee arising from the report presented by Hon. Ziyambi. The first item raised by the Committee is that the title of the Constitution itself must be amended from Constitutional Amendment No. 20 Act of 2013 to Constitution of Zimbabwe 2013 so that this Amendment Bill will lead to the enactment of Constitutional Amendment No. 1 Act. While there appears to be the general consensus that this amendment must be done, it should be borne in mind that the changing of the title is not just done that simply, as it involves another amendment process to be initiated; given that the title itself is part of the text of the Constitution and we can seldom trivialise the text simply because it is a title and seek to change it willy nilly.
In any event, I was wondering if there is any one among us who is uncertain and confused that this proposed amendment is to the Constitution that we all endorsed in 2013. To seek to amend the title of the Constitution in my view, will complicate the situation further. It is one’s conviction that this amendment is to the effective and operational Constitution that matters, and thus the proposal to amend the text expressing the title of the Constitution may not be taken aboard by this proposed amendment as it was never part of the principles which were part of the drafting instructions to our drafters.
Mr. Speaker, I am grateful that after the Committee’s findings, the Committee has also been able to analyse contributions by our citizens and have been guided by those contributions to arrive at certain conclusions that they have presented to us as their recommendations.
Mr. Speaker, I am amenable to be encouraged by the recommendations made by the Committee which has clearly supported the Bill we are debating today.
Firstly, on the proposed amendment of Section 174 of the Constitution by the addition of subsection 2 that explicitly subordinates the two courts to the High Court but maintains the quality of basic conditions of service between judges of the High Court and judges of the two subordinate Courts, the Committee has not grappled with that position and has swiftly recommended that we cause that amendment.
This sentiment also appears to be shared by the majority of other members.
In fact, the Committee went further to dismiss a minority suggestion that we amend the Acts which deal with establishment of respective courts and leave the Constitution. This clearly is an absurdity which flies in the face of settled legal principles that enabling Acts can only be enacted provided that their final scope, content and text is not at variance with the supreme law of the land. That said, it would be difficult to reflect a position in an Act of Parliament when the
Constitution itself has a glaring lacuna or gap. The first and imperative action is for the legislature to move in and correct that anormally. Surely, Parliament cannot shy away from its duties that are constitutionally conferred and authoritatively given to it by the people.
Mr. Speaker, pertaining to the appointment procedure under
Section 180 of the Constitution, items 5.5 and 5.6 of the Committee’s
Report unequivocally support the Amendment Bill and thus noted that:
‘...the responsibility of the judiciary to interpret the laws of the land must vest in individuals who are qualified, professionals, fit and proper and the proposed amendment does not seek to take away these cardinal baseline requirements,...’.
Further, the Committee also authoritatively agreed with the proposed amendment as it does not seek to erode the independence of Judiciary, given that provisions that insulate such independency as provided for in terms of Section 164 and 165 on Independence Judiciary and the principles guiding the Judiciary are not going to be tempered with at all except for the administrative aspects of the appointment procedure under Section 180, only pertaining to the appointment of the three heads of the judiciary that are inclined towards empowering the office of the sitting and outgoing Chief Justice to choose his or her successor at the expense of Judicial authority, that must be exercised by the people through their elected representatives.
The Committee persuasively advanced this notion as follows, “ the system of representative democracy which subsists in Zimbabwe is being negated by the current procedure which leaves the selection of such influential office bearers who define direction and policy of the country to unelected individuals. It is settled that judicial authority drives from the people, hence the need to change the status quo”.
I now turn to submissions by Hon. Gonese and I will lump my responses to his submissions together with those raised by Hon. P. D. Sibanda. Firstly, let me put it on record that this is not a self-serving amendment as these two Hon. Members have been at pains to portray. It is my firm belief and conviction that those who entertain such notions are not only mischievous and self-destructive to say the least, but dangerous, not only to our constitutional democracy but to themselves. It must be clear to them that I, as the Minister to whom the Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs portfolio was assigned, have the unfettered mandate to propose amendments accordingly to the people’s wishes, the law and procedures available for the peace, order and good governance of the motherland. It is that duty which I credibly execute in a balanced manner, to the satisfaction of all our Zimbabwean people regardless of their political persuasions.
Hon. Gonese expressed his concern about the timing of brining this proposed amendment describing it as being too early. This sentiment is shared by Honourables Cross, Majome and Ndebele. The timing of bringing a proposal of an amendment to the Constitution can only be addressed by the Constitution itself. No constitutional provision prescribes or limits the time within which proposals to amend the Constitution must be tabled before this august House. The only direction we get from the Constitution pertains to the procedure that must be followed when amending the Constitution and this is set out in terms of Section 328 on amendment of Constitution. In terms of 328
(6), where a Constitutional Bill seeks to amend any provision of Chapter 4 on Declaration of Rights or Chapter 16 on Agricultural Land, it must be submitted to the referendum within three months after it has been passed by Parliament by the affirmative votes of two-thirds of the membership to each of the Houses of Parliament.
Thus, the restrictions have been placed in amending these two provisions in our Constitution not on the basis of time but procedure.
This is what we refer to as entrenchments. These entrenchments also apply to provisions relating to the amendment of term limits provisions and Section 328 itself; as prescribed by Section 328 (7) and (9) respectively. Section 328 (9) restricts the amendment of Section 328 itself, in case someone wants to amend the amendment clause first before attempting to amend other provisions.
The provisions from which this particular amendment proposal on appointment of judges arise, are not entrenched and thus are subject to amendments as long as the proper procedures are followed, and of course, when the rationale of the need of that amendment is found, either by the Government of the day or by any Member of Parliament, who would wish to sponsor a Private Bill. In this case, we are following the procedure prescribed in terms of Section 328 to the letter and spirit, and thus, no issues of constitutional ripeness or otherwise legally arise, particularly on the benchmark of time.
Mr. Speaker, now that we learn that there is no provision in our
Constitution that prescribes the time within which a constitutional amendment may be brought before this august House, one may want to learn from even our neighbour, South Africa which adopted their
Constitution in 1996 and started to be operational in 1997. The South
African Constitution came into effect on 4th February, 1997 and by 28th
August, 1997 barely seven months after the effective date, the late President Mandela was signing a constitutional amendment into law, with less than six months of it coming into effect. It made changes related to the Oath of Office of the Acting President and to the jurisdiction of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and also to the effect that the Chief Justice should designate another judge to administer the Oath of Office of the President or Acting President, rather than administering it personally.
As a comparative analysis, how do you reconcile the more than four years that our Constitution has been in effect and the less than seven months within which South Africans changed their Constitution? That notwithstanding, the South African people remain proud of their
Constitution even when it was changed within six months. I believe that other than some of our own such as Hon. Ndebele, whose pride as a Zimbabwean has been dented simply because we have proposed a constitutional amendment within four years.
Mr. Speaker, it arises from the above South African example that it is not true that a Constitution cannot be amended within four years as in our case, as long as that amendment is legally and procedurally executed as we hereby do. It is trite that while intended to be both foundational and enduring; constitutions are not intended to be immutable. In fact, if the Constitution is to endure, it must be able to respond to changing needs and circumstances. Some amendments are made for the public interests; or to adjust the Constitution to the environment within which the political system operates, including economics, technology, international relations, demographic and values. They can be changed to correct provisions that have proved inadequate over time, or to further improve constitutional rights or to strengthen democratic institutions.
In fact, the early writings of eminent thinkers such as John Locke in his seminal work ‘Treatise of Government’ and newfangled writers like Donald Lutz in his work ‘Towards a Theory of Constitutional
Amendment’, support the notion that if a population rested on popular consent, then the people can also revise, amend or replace it with a new one, equally on the basis of popular consent. This popular consent may be practiced through a convention, referendum or legislative process of a relatively bigger majority.
Mr. Speaker, while I was very excited and enthused by the level of debate directed towards this constitutional amendment, I was also discouraged by the level of misdirection of this august House by some Hon. Members who, at all cost, were desirous to discredit the fact that the appointment of the Chief Justice and Deputy Chief Justice through an interview process has no precedence. Hon. Gonese, in the last paragraph of his submission, wanted to enjoin Kenya as one such jurisdiction that subjects prospective candidates to the office of the Chief Justice to public interviews. Section 166 (1) of the Kenyan Constitution is relevant and clearly provides that:
‘The President shall appoint –
(a) The Chief Justice and Deputy Chief Justice in accordance with the recommendation of the JSC, and subject to the approval of the
Ntional Assembly’. There are no public interviews; and
‘(b) All other judges in accordance with the recommendation of the JSC’. There are no interviews.
So, that was misdirection by Hon. Gonese.
Surely, with the much touted Kenyan example having been used by the Hon. Members as a shining example of a jurisdiction that appoints its judicial officers through an interview process, and has now been discredited as an outright lie and misdirection of Hon. Members, we stick out as the only country which unprecedentedly appoints its Chief Justice and Deputy Chief Justice through a public interview process.
Mr. Speaker, allow me to also address the unwarranted fears that the Hon. Members appear to have been harbouring throughout the debate. The unwarranted fear that the appointment of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and President of the High Court shall erode the independence of the judiciary and unsettle the separation of powers as was expressed by Hon. Ndebele, Chirisa and Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga. On this concern, it should be noted that judicial independence is a function of a number of inter-related elements other than the procedure of appointment alone, which procedure has not been done away with in the appointment of the whole bench, the rest of the judges still have to go through a process of interviews as in the current Constitution, but just three of the members of the judiciary, by virtue of it being a means of curing an administrative mischief that may potentially occur.
Fundamentally, the Constitution has other adequate mechanisms that guarantee judicial independence to advance and secure the integrity of the bench from all forms of interference. These range from their fitness and properness, their qualifications, integrity, probity, moral, character and impartiality; there are dismissal procedures and remuneration and those are the safeguards that safeguard the independence of the Judiciary. We must also remember that whilst we hold premium the principle of the independence of the judiciary, it should be noted that as an arm of Government, the Judiciary is an independent but interrelated and interdependence sphere of the Government machinery that can only survive when it interlocks with other organs through the lenses of an equally celebrated principle of checks and balances. Surely, the Judiciary cannot exist in an island or in a vacuum because if that notion of its existence as a vacuum was true, surely the President would not be even allowed to play even a single role in the appointment process as is the case across jurisdictions worldwide.
Mr. Speaker, then comes the issue of the people as the source of the Judicial authority. The notion that Judicial authority derives from the people is not an immaterial proposition but a fundamental one that is rooted in the subterranean layers of our electoral mandate. Democracy itself is embedded in the popular views of the masses at any given time. When we say certain provisions of the Constitution have outlived their usefulness and should be reviewed, it means that the popular will of the greatest number share that view. It is that view that must be debated and if it steals the thunder, it is the one that must be adopted.
However, those popular views must be debated, tested and interrogated, following the constitutional and legislative procedures in place and that is what we are doing in this august House. In any event, it is a good and longstanding practice even in well established democracies to include the elected representatives of the people in the judicial appointment process. In Kenya, they involve both their President and the National Assembly – not the interviews as previously debated. In South Africa, it is the President and the National Assembly; and in America, it is the President and the Senate. It is only in Zimbabwe that the President is involved after the public interviews which we are now removing.
Mr. Speaker, it is against this backdrop that we propose this constitutional amendment especially if regard had to be heard to the invidious position that it leaves our judicial officers in. Does it not naturally make sense that an outgoing Chief Justice cannot chair interviews for his or her potential successor? The reason is simple as it is predicated upon a possible conflict of interest, which mitigates on the principles of good governance and transparency of the whole appointment process leading to the contamination of the bench and subsequent compromise the administration of justice. However, the President in compliance of the current Constitution before this amendment went ahead and appointed a new Chief Justice in terms of the current Constitution which is the law until it is amended. That is the rule of law.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also wish to highlight that it is not right to hold the notion that there are other pressing issues that should take precedent ahead of the imperative need of addressing gaps in our Constitution; as Hon. Ndebele clearly said in the closing remarks of his submissions before he quoted the late nationalist and legal icon, E.J.M. Zvobgo. Is the Hon. Member insinuating that the Constitution is immaterial to the extent that we must ignore it up until a time when our economic fortunes have improved? We must surely be guided by former South African Chief Justice, Ishmael Mohamed who emphasised the importance of the
Constitution when he said: “The Constitution of a nation is not simply a statute, it is a mirror of the national soul, the identification of the ideals and aspirations of a nation, the articulation of the values binding its people and disciplining its government”.
Do we need a mirror of the national soul that is broken? Do we need the identification of the ideals and aspirations of our nation to be in tatters? Do we want the articulation of the values binding our people and disciplining our Government to be on a blighted and shaky constitutional framework – no? Interestingly enough yet paradoxical, Hon. Ndebele put his lessons at the University of Zimbabwe Law School into practical use by branding our Constitution sui generis, which means in a class of its own. I hear he is a freshman at the University of Zimbabwe but deliberately refrained from reasoning that a Constitution with gaps and provisions such as Section 180 can hardly be described as sui generis. Surely, the Eighth Parliament cannot go down in history as a Parliament that jettisoned its mandate of making laws for the peace, order and good governance of its nation and leave it all to the courts to grapple with the jurisprudence of interpreting and assigning meaning to half baked provisions. We make laws as Parliament; the Judiciary interprets that law and the Executive implements and enforces that law.
Mr. Speaker, it is disturbing to note that some Hon. Members such as Hon. Cross and Chirisa prefer to align the legislation to the Constitution first before amending it, even if it has glaring lacunae or gaps. Surely, this becomes a case of the proverbial cart before the horse maxim. You can only align legislation to a Constitution with watertight and robust provisions. A flawed constitutional framework means a weak legislative framework and consequently a society not found on justice, law and order. Your guess of the by-products of such a society are as good as mine. Surely, that is not the kind of society that we yearn for here in Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker, let me also turn to those who wanted to advance the notion that this is a partisan amendment. While Hon. Members
Mukwena, Nduna, Katsiru and Matambanadzo supported the Bill, I feel that they went too far to make it like the amendment is a party amendment simply because the party which also proudly supports and whose people I humbly subordinate myself to wishes to sponsor it and by virtue of that, it shall come to pass. This amendment is an apolitical centered amendment that is found on the notion that for the administration of justice to be smooth, it must be predicated upon an independent appointment process, insulated from potential internal influence of its senior officials.
However, I wish to pay tribute to Hon. Mukwena, Hon. Katsiru,
Hon. Matambanadzo, Hon. Phiri, Hon. Chakona, Hon. Mandipaka and Hon. Nduna for their emphasising the importance of enjoining the source from which judicial authority is derived in the appointment of senior judicial officers: the people through their popularly elected representatives, the appointment must be done by an official from a different arm of Government, which official has the authority of the masses from which judicial authority is derived - who is the President.
Even Hon. Maridadi was close to endorsing this notion, albeit vicariously, by referring to the role the Presidency plays in making the constitutional making process succeed, and by extension, the role the presidency can play in making the judiciary work through appointments. Unfortunately, he could not afford to be too clear for fear of reprisals from his party colleagues.
Mr. Speaker, there was raised concern that this Bill did not get support from Cabinet as evidenced by sentiments expressed by other Cabinet Members through the media. I surely do not find that to be an issue that stops this amendment process as disagreements will always be part of our deep seated democratic principles. Just like here in Parliament, we are witnessing divergent views on one issue and if that happens in here, what is irregular in that happening in Cabinet especially in view of the democratic mechanisms in place to ensure that the voice of the majority wins the day. After all, there is a long standing tradition of ‘Cabinet collective responsibility’ that dictates that even when a Cabinet Member does not agree with the majority decision, it is either that they are bound by that decision or they resign.
The fact that we have not seen any resignation arising from the successful endorsement of this Bill by Cabinet is eloquent testimony that the Bill has full backing of Government and the final arbiters, the people, through their elected representatives who will have the final say on the Bill. Mr. Speaker, that said, I now propose that the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 1) Bill [H.B. 1, 2017] be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 14th June, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Order of the Day, Number 2 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 3 has been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B. 2, 2017]
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill, (H. B. 2, 2017].
Question again proposed.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL
HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and the Thematic Committees on Human Rights and Peace and Security on their report on the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC) Bill, B. H. 2, 2017. I also want to thank all Hon. Members for their support especially those involved in public consultations. May I also take this opportunity to thank the Hon. Members who have made contributions to this debate.
I note as highlighted in the conclusion of the report that the Bill did not receive general public acceptance. I would therefore like to make comments and clarification in relation to the issues in the report and from contributions made by Hon. Members.
Let me start by pointing out that this Bill aims to operationalise National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC), which was established by Section 251/253 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
Section 252 of the Constitution clearly states the functions that the NPRC must implement in order to fulfil its mandate. How the NPRC will implement the listed ten functions is up to the Commission as it is independent to decide how to embark on its work. The Executive cannot therefore prescribe how the Commission should implement these functions.
Whilst we are all trying to figure out what exactly the Commission will be working on and we are even giving suggestions as to what it should look into, it is best that we leave the Independent Commission to decide how it will implement its functions. The Bill is only giving the principles of operationalising the Commission as we all want it to start work yesterday. The aim of the Executive is therefore not to prescribe to the Commission how it should conduct its work, but to give the principles that will guide the NPRC in the fulfilment of its mandate.
The modalities of how the NPRC will be operating as it implements its functions will be given in the regulations for the Bill when it becomes an Act. These regulations will be tabled in this august House for your approval.
Hon. Members, allow me to respond to some of the issues raised for example, the delay in tabling revised the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill. The response is that after the withdrawal of the NPRC Bill in May 2016, several versions were worked on trying to incorporate the issues that had been highlighted in the adverse report of the Parliamentary Legal Committee and also by the public from the hearings conducted by the relevant Portfolio Committees. The Bill was also subjected to stakeholder consultations and it was pointed out that stakeholders appreciated the process. The draft that came from this process was then presented to the Cabinet Committee on Legislation and later to Cabinet. The Bill had to follow the due process to ensure that it had incorporated the views gathered. The Bill that was finally presented to Parliament for gazetting thus received a non-adverse report from the PLC.
The fact that the first Bill received an adverse report and that the views from the public were also condemning the Bill, called for extra effort to be put in crafting of the Second Bill before the tabling of the Bill before this august House.
Long Title
The long title is not expressing the purpose of the NPRC Bill and what it intends to achieve.
Response:
- The long title of the Bill is in consonance with the contents of the Bill. The purpose of the Commission is laid out in terms of the Constitution. Thus, the major purpose of this Bill before the House is to make the Commission operational.
- The purpose of the Bill is as stated in the Constitution and the
Bill cannot therefore give a different purpose Clause 2 Interpretation Issue:
Major terms used in a conflict situation were not defined. Words like victim, conflict, dispute, amnesty, perpetrator, post conflict justice, torture and reconciliation.
Response:
- The purpose of the interpretation section is to interpret words used in the Bill. The Constitution is the basis of the Bill and some of the cited words have not been used throughout the Bill. Unless such words have been used, that is when they maybe defined. Where the Constitution has used the words and did not define them, then defining them in the Bill runs the risk of limiting the constitutional intended meaning.
- The purpose of the interpretation section is not to give the dictionary meaning of the terms used. One of the purposes of the interpretation section is to shorten the text of the Bill. One such definition is that of ‘Minister’. If the Minister has not been defined, it has the effect that every time the Bill seeks to make a reference to the Minister, the Bill would have to cite the Ministry for the Minister. This will lengthen the text of the Bill. The word ‘dispute’ has been defined not in a dictionary fashion, but only to ensure that the Commission will handle the dispute which is within its constitutional mandate. This has been done to ensure that the Bill is not in conflict with the Constitution. Clause 3: Procedure Powers and Functions of the Commission
Issue:
The Bill failed to categorise, list and define functions of the Commission, its powers, procedures for handling complaints up to the stage of acquittal or conviction and conditions for granting amnesty.
Response:
- The Constitution lays out the functions of the NPRC in Section 252 of the Constitution. For purposes of drafting an Act of Parliament, it is contrary to guidelines of drafting legislation to repeat the same functions. The Bill can only provide for additional functions which have not been covered by the Constitution.
- According to Section 34 (2) of the Constitution, the NPRC as an independent Commission, is given all the powers necessary to enable it to fulfil all its functions including healing and reconciliation. Some issues are therefore left entirely to the discretion of the Commission.
- The procedure for handling complaints up to the determination of granting amnesty (pardon as stated in the Constitution) will be provided for by the Regulations in terms of Clause 19 (2) (e) of the Bill, as the Bill is only highlighting principles.
Clause 6: Offices and Operations of Commission Issues:
The NRPC should decentralise offices to remote areas to ensure equal access to justice by all.
Response:
- As an independent Commission, the NPRC is empowered to establish offices where it feels necessary in terms of Clause 6 (1) of the Bill. Further, the Commission is obliged to ensure accessibility of its offices in terms of Clause 6 (2). Thus, decentralisation is one of the strategies of achieving accessibility.
Clause 8: Investigating Functions of the Commission
- Clause 8 (1): Disputes or issues to be investigated by the Commission should be described in detail so that functions of the Constitution are transparent and clear to all.
- Functions of the NPRC must be clearly demarcated from those of the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission (ZHRC).
- Clause 8 (3): Due court processed under civil proceedings were acknowledged, but those under criminal proceedings were negated, meaning that the Commission can investigate matters before criminal courts.
Response:
- In Clause 8 (1), the Commission is empowered to deal with any type of dispute or conflict brought before it. The Constitution did not define the scope of the dispute or conflict to be adjudicated by the Commission. Defining the scope of this dispute may have the effect of limiting the dispute. Limiting the scope of the dispute or conflict may deny the citizens of their fundamental constitutional right to have the processes of healing and reconciliation.
- The function of the ZHRC and the NPRC are clearly laid out in the Constitution, according to Section 243 and 252 respectively. What the Bill stated are the additional functions that the NPRC should implement.
- The issue of citing matters before the civil court only is noted.
At the Committee Stage Clause 8 (3) will be amended to ensure that the Commission will not deal with matters which are before both the civil and criminal courts.
Clause 13: Staff of Commission Issue:
What role does the Minister play in the setting up of the
Commission Secretariat?
Response:
- The NPRC will come up with its own organogram, based on the activities it will want to implement. For the NPRC to be able to recruit its own staff, the Minister and the Minister of Finance and Economic Development have to be consulted for purposes of budgetary issues since all commissions are vote supported by their respective parent ministries. This is administratively upright.
On the issue of gender, the Bill is silent on gender and there should be a specific gender section.
Response
- The NPRC is an independent Commission which has powers to set up units or Committees that will enable it to properly function in the implementation of its mandate - as stated in the first schedule, paragraph 8 (1). The Executive cannot therefore prescribe the units or Committees that the NPRC can set up; for example gender unit as that will be infringing on the independence of the Commission.
However, it should be noted that the primary purpose of the Commission is to facilitate healing and reconciliation among feuding parties. How it does that is the prerogative of the Commission.
- In terms of Clause 19 (2)(b) of the Bill, the Commission is empowered to create committees as it thinks fit. Thus, the Commission may create a Gender Unit and other Committees for identified disadvantaged members of society using this provision.
- In terms of Paragraph 1 of the First Schedule, Members of the Commission should be drawn from all genders as provided for in terms of Section 17 of the Constitution. This is one of the best strategies of achieving gender quality.
Defining one as perpetrator of victim
Issue
The Bill is silent on procedures for ascertaining one’s status as perpetrator and/or victim.
Response
- The Commission will provide the procedures in the regulations.
CONCERNS RAISED BY HONOURABLE MEMBERS OF
PARLIAMENT (MPS)
HON. GONESE
Issue
The Bill does not tell us why we need to have this Commission, what the motivation is or the history of our country which led to the inclusion of the Commission in the Constitution.
Response
- The purpose of the Bill is to operationalise the Commission which was established by the Constitution. Outlining the history of the country should have been relevant if the Bill was creating a new creature not provided for in the Constitution. The history can only be relevant for purposes of establishing the Commission. This Bill is not establishing the Commission but the Commission is established in terms of the Constitution.
Issue
Repetition of the same words in Clauses 10 and 11 and also First
Schedule paragraphs 2 (1) and 2 (4).
Response
- From the concerns raised by Hon. Gonese about the provisions which he alleges were repeated in Clauses 10 and 11, a closer analysis of the provisions outlined reveals that the provisions refer to different contexts that is […answer may incriminate him or her Clause 10 (2) and
…. answer may incriminate someone (Clause 11 (2)]
This also applies to the First Schedule Paragraph 2 (1) and 2 (4) on the term of office for Members of the Commission which is cited according to Sections 320 and 340 of the Constitution.
- In drafting, it is encouraged to use same words when you are creating provisions which are closer contextually. Different words can only be used when denoting different meaning. Thus, since the meaning has to be maintained with different contexts, similar words had to be used.
Issue
The need to replace the NPRC Chairman after the death of the late
Dr. Cyril Ndebele.
Response:
- The Executive remains committed to ensuring that the NPRC operates with its full complement of Commissioners and is pre-occupied with the matter.
HON. KHUPE
Issue (Also raised by Hon. Majome)
The Bill does not state how truth telling and justice will be addressed.
Response
- In terms of Clause 9 (11)(b) of the Bill, it is an offence to give false information before the Commission and this encourages truth telling. Further, Clause 10 (3) creates an incentive for truth telling by making self incriminating evidence inadmissible before any competent court.
- As truth telling and justice are part of the functions of the
Commission as stated in Section 252 (a) and (c) of the Constitution, the modalities of how truth telling and justice will be addressed are left to the Commission to work out. These will be laid out in the regulations that will be laid before this august House.
Issue
How will information be archived and will the public have access to the Commission information.
Response
- The archiving of information is an administrative issue guided by Government regulations.
- In terms of Section 62 of the Constitution, every person has a right to access information held by the State or by any institution or agency of Government. In terms of Section 62 (4) of the Constitution, a law may restrict access to information in the interest of defence, public security or professional confidentiality. According to Clause 15 (8) of the Bill, whilst it grants access to the public 18 months after the year to which the information relates, it means that this upholds a person’s right to access the information, albeit in a restricted manner. This period will allow for finalisation of the Commission’s investigations.
Issue
There is no guarantee that witnesses will be protected during the process that is before, during and after giving evidence.
Response
- According to Clause 9 (12) of the Bill, the protection of witnesses is guaranteed. The modalities of how this protection will be granted is left to the discretion of the Commission as it has powers to decide how to implement its work.
Issue
The Bill did not capture the gender dimension of conflicts.
Response
- According to Clause 15 (6) (d) of the Bill, the Commission is expected to come up with a comprehensive strategy for incorporating a gender perspective in conflict prevention, management and resolution and peace building measures.
Issue: (also raised by Hon. Majome and Hon. Saruwaka)
The NPRC was given a lifespan of 10 years in the Constitution and has already lost 4 years, how will the lost years be incorporated.
Response:
- The counting for the lifespan for the Commission started in August, 2013 that is, after the effective date and the Constitution will operate for 10 years. As to the incorporation of the lost years, we stand guided by the custodian of the Constitution as to how this issue will be addressed. Extending the lifespan of the Commission beyond 2023 in the absence of a constitutional amendment would be unconstitutional.
HON. MAJOME
Issue: What mechanisms will be put in place for reparations?
Response:
- According to Clause 19 (2)(d) of the Bill, the NPRC will come up with mechanisms to deal with the implementation of its functions as provided for in Section 252 of the Constitution. The mechanisms will also lay out the procedures for consideration of reparations. Before the regulations of the Commission come into effect,
Parliament will have to approve them in terms of Clause 19 (4) of the Bill. This ensures independence of the Commission.
Issue:
Guarantee of non-recurrence of atrocities was not incorporated in the Bill.
Response:
- As part of implementing its functions, the Commission will come up modalities of guaranteeing a non-recurrence of the atrocities. In any event, it is very difficult not possible, to legislate for the guaranteeing of non-recurrence of a conflict in any country as the issue depends on people’s attitudes towards the resolution of conflicts.
Issue:
Commission should have power to initiate its own investigations.
Response:
- The Commission has a given lifespan of 10 years which has to be utilised to implement the laid out functions in the Constitution. Giving the Commission powers to initiate its own investigations which have not been reported to, it may lead the NPRC on a fishing expedition which might result in wastage of resources and not yield the intended results. The Commission should therefore be guided in its operations by what is in the Constitution.
- It should also be noted that there are 10 functions that the NPRC has to fulfill. The Commission is therefore not being operationalised to conduct investigations only but it even needs to “develop and implement programmes to promote national healing, unity and cohesion in Zimbabwe and the peaceful resolution of disputes” amongst other functions.
Issue:
The Bill did not mention the kind of violations that the
Commission will deal with.
Response:
- According to Clause 3 (2) (a) of the Bill, the Commission will conduct investigations into any dispute or conflict which falls within its mandate as set out in Section 252 of the Constitution. Listing the violations to investigate will limit what the Constitution has prescribed. The Executive cannot therefore prescribe the type of violations that the Commission should deal with as the Commission is guided by the Constitution.
HON. SARUWAKA:
Issue:
There should have been wider consultation on the Bill not just in the 10 provinces.
Response:
- The consultations are part of the Parliamentary processes and the Executive has no say in it. This issue is best addressed by Parliament.
Issue:
Bill should set up a Victims’ Fund for rehabilitation and compensation support for victims.
Response:
- The decision to set up a Victims’ Fund is the prerogative of the Commission which is best placed to decide how it intends to implement its functions. According to Clause 16 (1) (c) of the Bill, the Commission is empowered to get donations which it can use for purposes of the Victims’ Fund, if it deems fit.
Issue:
The NPRC should not include members from security sector as part of the Commissioners and its secretariat.
Response:
- Commissioners for the NPRC were interviewed by the Standing Rules and Orders Committee of Parliament and I believe they made their due diligence. As for the Secretariat, the Commission will recruit its own staff and they are best suited to determine the type of staff they want to engage.
HON. CROSS
Issue:
The Bill falls short of the UN five principles of the right to:
knowing what happened, justice, compensation, non-recurrence and written record.
Response:
- The UN principles are fused in the 10 functions of the
Commission as listed in Section 252 of the Constitution. As the Commission implements its functions, it will also adhere to and incorporate the UN principles.
- Further, the public will be afforded an opportunity of knowing what happened as the public will be allowed to attend hearings subject to the provisions of Clause 9 (6) of the Bill. The public will also be able to get information of the proceedings subject to provisions of Clause 15 (8) of the Bill.
- On the issue of justice, it is the primary responsibility of the Commission to discharge its duties without fear or favour. This is critical in bringing justice to the public. A closer analysis of the provisions will reveal that there is justice in the hearing of the matters. Reference is made to the provisions of Clauses 9 -11 of the Bill. For example, every party will be entitled to have a lawyer of his/her own choice as in Clause 9 (4) of the Bill. No person will be forced to testify against himself or herself, as in Clause 10 (3) of the Bill and this is a key component in the criminal justice system.
- The other two principles of non-recurrence and compensation have been dealt with.
Issue:
In the Second Schedule of the Bill, paragraphs 10, 11, 12, 13 and
16 provide for the NPRC to provide for loans to its members and staff. This provision should be scratched as NPRC only has a lifespan of ten years.
Response:
- Whilst it is true that the NPRC only has a life span of ten years, the laid out conditions in the stated paragraphs are meant to motivate the members and staff of the Commission. It should also be noted that these conditions are the same with other independent Commissions and leaving them out for the NPRC might have created discord and discontent among the Commissions. Paragraph 15 of the Second Schedule provides for the safety nets for guaranteeing loan repayments.
CONCLUSION
It is my wish that Honourable Members understand that we cannot list or have everything we want addressed in the Bill but that some of the issues are left entirely to the discretion of the independent Commission.
Let us therefore understand that the NPRC is a national Commission that has powers to look into all national issues, not just Gukurahundi, Entumbane, Murambatsvina and Electoral Violence amongst others, that affected, are affecting and will affect the nation in future. It is my hope that by looking at our past, the Commission will assist us to understand the present and build a peaceful future.
Mr. Speaker, I now commend the NPRC Bill [H. B. 2, 2017] to the
House and move that the Bill be now read a Second time. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I have an issue, if you can allow me. Let me take advantage of my standing here and correct certain perceptions on the Commission, especially the issue on certain people. Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of corruption is not the prerogative of the Opposition Party or anybody, especially opposition. It is a concern of everybody, including some of us. I say with pride, I am not a corrupt man and I will never be. In the first place, my occupation Mr. Speaker, if I drop dead now – Ooh by the way, I turned 77, Gonese where were you? – [Laughter.] – [HON.
GONESE: You are out of order Mr. Vice President.] – Hayi mani kangifuni, I want to share please.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Vice President.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPOKO):
Mr. Speaker, special favour.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. I am bound by the
regulation, I am afraid. Thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a Second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 14th June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON.
RUNGANI, the House adjourned at a Half past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 8th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP REMINDER THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to remind the House
that Parliament of Zimbabwe, in collaboration with the United Nations (UN) Agencies, will convene a capacity building workshop for all
Parliamentarians, on the UN Systems and Sustainable Development
Goals on Monday, 12th June, 2017, at the Sango Conference Centre, Cresta Lodge, Msasa in Harare. The buses will pick up Members from
Nelson Mandela Avenue from 0730 hours.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1to 30
be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 31 and the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 45TH SESSION OF THE AFRICAN CARIBBEAN
AND PACIFIC PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY (ACP) AND
INTERSESSIONAL MEETINGS
HON. DR. SHUMBA: I move the motion standing in my name,
that this House takes note of the Report of the 45th Session of the African Caribbean and Pacific Parliamentary Assembly (ACP) and Intersessional meetings of the ACP – EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly held in Brussels, Belgium from 21 to 24 March 2017.
HON. ZINDI: I second.
HON. DR. SHUMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I present the
Report of the 45th Session of the African Caribbean and Pacific
Parliamentary Assembly (ACP) and Intersessional Meetings of the ACPEU Joint Parliamentary Assembly, held in Brussels, Belgium from the
21st to the 24th of March, 2017.
1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 The Intersessional Meetings of the ACP-EU Joint
Parliamentary Assembly were convened at the European Parliament on
23 and 24 March 2017. The Session brought together Members of
Parliament from the ACP group of states and their EU counterparts. Hon. Dr. Daniel K. Shumba, led the Zimbabwean Parliamentary delegation comprising the following Members and Officials:-
Hon. Sithembile Mlotshwa, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Irene Zindi, Member of Parliament;
H.E. Mr. Tedius T. Chifamba, Ambassador of Zimbabwe to
Belgium;
Ms. Rudo N. E. Doka, Acting Principal Director – External
Relations and Secretary to the delegation; and
Embassy Officials.
1.2 The meetings were preceded by the meetings of the Bureau of the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly on 22 and 23 March; the
ACP Parliamentary Assembly on 22 March; the Bureau of the ACP
Parliamentary Assembly on 21 March; and the ACP Standing
Committees on Political Affairs, Social Affairs and the Environment and Economic Development, Trade and Finance on 21 March 2017.
1.3 Hon. Netty Baldeh of The Gambia, the President of the ACP
Parliamentary Assembly and Co-President of the ACP-EU Joint
Parliamentary Assembly chaired the 45th Session of the ACP
Parliamentary Assembly.
1.4 The Assembly observed a moment of silence in honour of the following departed colleagues:-
Mr. James Mancham, the founding President of Seychelles who passed away on the 7th of January 2017;
Mr. Rene Preval, the former President of Haiti who passed away on the 3rd of March 2017;
Victims of terrorist attacks in Mali that claimed at least 42 lives and injured more than 100 people;
Victims of cyclone Enawo that struck Madagascar on the 7th of March 2017 and claimed approximately 51 lives, injured more than 100 people, displaced over 232 456 and destroyed agricultural crops, property and infrastructure; and
17 people who died following a stampede in an Angolan football stadium.
1.5 The Assembly received communication from the President and from the ACP Secretary-General and exchanged views on the reports of the Standing Committees on Political Affairs; Economic
Development, Finance and Trade; and Social Affairs and the
Environment.
1.6 Hon. Shumba issued a rebuttal to the European Parliament's resolution on Zimbabwe that was adopted on 16 March 2016, through statements during the ACP Committee on Political Affairs, the ACP
Parliamentary Assembly and at the ACP-EU Committee meeting on
Political Affairs. (Copies are attached as Annex I). He also exploited the lunch organised by the Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the European Parliament on 23 March 2017, and condemned EU sanctions and the European Parliament's resolution on
Zimbabwe.
2.0 ACP Parliamentary Assembly
2.1 On behalf of the ACP Secretary-General, Ambassador
Ognimba, Assistant Secretary-General responsible for the Political Affairs and Human Development Department stressed the importance of the ACP Parliamentary Assembly and ACP-EU cooperation in promoting and monitoring the implementation of the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).
2.2 The Assistant Secretary-General informed the Assembly about the European Union’s outreach to ACP countries by three former Commissioners, Mr. Louis Michel, Mr. Pascal Lamy and Ms. Emma Bonino. The former Commissioners would visit ACP countries and regions to exchange views with ACP leadership in preparation for negotiations on the post-Cotonou relations. The list of countries to be visited and the schedule of visits had not been availed yet.
2.3 The issue generated heated debate among Parliamentarians who called for a postponement or cancellation of the visits, arguing that the EU should not set the agenda for the ACP. The Assembly enquired whether the ACP side could undertake a similar outreach to EU Member States and proposed that ACP Ambassadors should identify experts to undertake the exercise and take part in the negotiations.
2.4 Other Parliamentarians observed that while it would not be possible to stop the outreach exercise, it was important that
Parliamentarians took part in the consultations with the EU facilitators.
2.5 As it was apparent that there was an information gap, the Parliamentarians requested the Secretariat to provide adequate briefing notes before the meetings.
2.6 The Assistant Secretary-General assured the Assembly that the outreach exercise would enable an exchange of views with the ACP leadership and that it was not the EU's intention to start negotiations on the post-Cotonou relations.
2.8 Observation/Comment
It was interesting to note that when the issue was initially raised by Mr. Neven Mimica, the European Commissioner for International Cooperation and Development during the 32nd Session of the ACP-EU JPA in Nairobi, Kenya in December 2016, the ACP Parliamentarians did not raise any concerns regarding the proposal.
3.0 Meetings of the ACP-EU Standing Committee
3.1 Committee on Political Affairs
3.1.1 The Committee adopted its agenda with one amendment. It was agreed that ''African'' would be removed from the topic, ''The future of the International Criminal Court (ICC) after possible withdrawal by some African states''. Member of the European Parliament (MEP) Michael Gahler argued that the removal did not make sense since
African countries were at the forefront to withdraw from the ICC.
Consideration of the draft report on the financing of political parties in ACP and EU countries
3.1.2 The Co-Rapporteurs, Hon. Worlea Saywah Dunnah (Liberia) and MEP Cécile Kashetu Kyenge (Italy) presented the draft report.
3.1.3 MEP Gahler, the only MEP who contributed in the discussion warned that political financing could be used to buy votes and stressed the need for an open and transparent system that would create a level playing field among all participants. He claimed that a number of ACP and EU countries were subject to foreign interference, especially by Russia, which financed populist parties. The MEP observed that many ACP countries had adopted rules to guard against foreign funding but what lacked was the enforcement of these rules and suggested that the EU could play a role by assisting ACP countries to enforce these rules. He also stressed the role of civil society organisations (CSOs) to ensure transparency.
3.1.4 On the other hand, a majority of the ACP Parliamentarians argued against the funding of CSOs and for them to carry out oversight roles since these organisations were usually aligned to political parties.
3.1.5 Representative of the European External Action Service (EEAS) and DG-DEVCO denied that the EU funded political parties but provided support to strengthen democracy. CSOs and parliaments were singled out as important institutions to carry out oversight roles in the financing of political parties in order to curb interference and corruption. The EU participated in election observation missions and engaged in political dialogue as part of strengthening democracy.
The future of the International Criminal Court (ICC) after possible withdrawal by African states
3.1.6 The subject had generated heated debate during the ACP meeting. Parliamentarians questioned why the subject had been included on the agenda and called for its removal. They observed that the ACP did not have a common position on the matter and argued that any position to be taken had to be consistent with the African Union (AU) position. A few dissenting voices argued that it was not the business of the AU to advise member states to withdraw from the ICC but sovereign decisions by member states.
3.1.7 During the joint meeting on 23 and 24 March, Mr. Kim Frost, the Chef de Cabinet to the ICC Presidency delivered a presentation in which he gave a background of the ICC and stressed that joining and withdrawal from the ICC were based on sovereign decisions. Of the ten investigations at the ICC, African States Parties referred eight while the United Nations Security Council referred two.
3.1.8 He informed about the latest developments regarding the notification of withdrawal from the Court by Burundi, The Gambia and South Africa. Following the election of a new President in The Gambia, the government had withdrawn its notification on 14 February whereas South Africa had withdrawn its notification on 13 March after the country's Constitutional Court had ruled that the withdrawal was unconstitutional. Only Burundi was on course to withdraw in October 2017.
3.1.9 The presenter observed that these notifications had had positive effects on the ICC as there was rallying support for the Court and the Rome Statute, with States Parties renewing their commitment and engaging African States at bilateral and multilateral levels about their concerns with respect to the Court.
3.1.10 He noted that some of the criticisms leveled against the Court were valid, for example the lack of efficiency in its administrative functions while some criticisms were based on issues outside the mandate of the Court, for example the issue of selectivity arguing that the Rome Statute did not have global jurisdiction.
3.1.11 Only two MEPs participated in the debate, MEPs Gahler and Kyenge. MEP Gahler stressed the importance of looking at issues from the victims' perspective. MEP Kyenge questioned why the Court seemed to concentrate on Africa.
3.1.12 Parliamentarians from Botswana, Liberia and Trinidad and Tobago pledged their countries commitment to the ICC and called for the strengthening of the institution. The St Vincent and Geraldines' MP argued that African States should not fear the ICC if they had clean hands and asked whose interests they were serving if they condemned the Court.
3.1.13 The ACP Parliamentarians notably from Ethiopia, Kenya and Sudan deplored the impartiality of the Court and stressed the importance of respecting the sovereignty of State Parties that were seeking to withdraw.
3.1.14 The representative of the EEAS stated that the EU Member
States were in full support of the ICC and agreed that where challenges existed, they should be addressed within the framework of the Court.
Non-Members were encouraged to sign/ratify the Rome Statute.
Growing involvement of China in African matters
3.1.15 This agenda item had also generated heated debate during the ACP meeting. Parliamentarians argued that it was the sovereign decision for Member States to cooperate bilaterally with China, which they argued, was sustainable contrary to EU aid which involved cumbersome drawdown procedures. They also stressed that the item be removed from the agenda.
3.1.16 The ACP Assembly President advised Members that they could vote against the inclusion of the items on the agenda during the joint meeting on 23 March.
3.1.17 At the joint meeting on 23 and 24 March, Professor Jonathan Holslag, Lecturer at the Free University of Brussels delivered a biased presentation about Africa-China cooperation. He opined that China was engaged in an unequal partnership with Africa, with African countries being indebted to China to the tune of $ 150 billion, adding that African countries had failed to generate adequate resources to repay its debt. He warned Africa's leadership to avoid the mistakes of the past of siphoning raw materials but to seek development of its manufacturing base. He claimed that unlike China, Europe presented long-term, equal and sustainable partnerships.
3.1.19 Only MEP Kyenge and the EU Co-Chair were present during the discussion yet it was the EU side that had proposed the item to be included on the agenda.
3.1.20 ACP Parliamentarians dismissed Professor Holslag assertions that did not present the realities of China's operations in
Africa. They outlined the projects that had been implemented by China in their respective countries and lamented the lengthy and cumbersome procedures for drawing down EU aid and the unequal Africa-EU partnership. They argued that the topic should not have been included on the agenda for discussions in such a forum but could have been a matter of introspection by the EU-side alone. They stressed the sovereignty and the freedom of African States to pursue partnerships.
3.1.21 The representative of the EEAS stated that China was not viewed as a rival within the EU and observed that Africa needed partners that respected its priorities to implement Agenda 2063.
Political dialogue under Article 8 of the Cotonou Agreement
3.1.22 Ms. Kristin de Peyron of the EEAS stated that Article 8 of the Cotonou Agreement was an important instrument to reinforce bilateral relations. She informed that in 2016, the EU had engaged more than half of the ACP countries in political dialogue. ..
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKERS GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! I recognise the
presence of Wise Tech College and Seke High 1 in the speaker’s
Gallery. You are welcome – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. DR. SHUMBA: Topics discussed included regional issues of common interest such as terrorism, maritime security, organised crime, Agenda 2030, the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, the
International Criminal Court, Syria, Ukraine, job creation, economic partnership agreements and migration. She believed dialogue could be continued and deepened in order to achieve positive results in the partnership. She observed that although some countries were not keen to engage in political dialogue the EU welcomed dialogue at all levels.
3.1.23 ACP Parliamentarians observed that the dialogue was onesided, focusing on ACP problems, lacked dynamism and forced countries to change their domestic policies. They stressed that the EU should be sensitive to local situations in ACP countries.
The political situation in ACP Member States
3.1.24 Parliamentarians from the Burkina Faso, Burundi,
Cameroon, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, Gabon, The Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Niger, Papua New Guinea, Sudan and Zimbabwe delivered statements during the Committee meeting.
3.1.25 The Committee also exchanged views on the following subjects:
- Challenges in the field of development-security nexus in ACP and EU policies. Djibouti had volunteered to be Co-Rapporteur of the report.
- Valletta Action Plan-State of implementation.
- Future priorities for the Joint-Africa Strategy
3.1.26 During the ACP Committee meeting, members of the Assembly expressed concern about the continuous engagement of EU experts to exchange views with the Parliamentarians and asked whether the ACP did not have qualified experts who could be engaged. At the ACP Committee meeting, Assistant Secretary General Ognimba claimed that when calls for proposals were dispatched to ACP countries, the responses received from the ACP side were substandard and therefore they could not be selected.
3.2 ACP-EU Committee on Social Affairs and the Environment
3.2.1 The Committee exchanged views on the following topics: The role of sport as enabler for education and poverty eradication
3.2.2 The Co-Rapporteurs MP Abderahmane Marrakchy of Mauritania and MEP Teresa Jimenez-Becerril Barrio presented the draft report. Emphasis was placed on the role of sport in social development, the need to include sponsorship and marketing of sport as well as the provision of sustainable technical assistance.
Improving the access to basic health systems, notably to medicines in the fight against infectious diseases
3.2.3 The Committee appointed Honourable Mfanawemakhosi Dlamini of Swaziland as Co-Rapporteur for the report. In their preliminary discussions, members stressed the importance of access in the following areas, cost, drugs, medical personnel, education, diet and infrastructure.
3.2.4 During the joint meeting on 23 and 24 March, the CoRapporteurs alluded to policy challenges, the difficulties encountered in the management of drugs and the monopoly of pharmaceutical companies which were not interested in research in tropical diseases. The preliminary remarks were followed by an HIV/AIDS-focused presentation by Ms. Lynette Mabote from the AIDS and Rights Alliance for Southern Africa (ARASA).
3.2.5 In the subsequent exchange of views, the following issues were highlighted: the need for coherent policy formulation and implementation; need to strengthen affordable ACP health systems; fighting poverty; providing infrastructure, clean water and access to medicines; integration of programmes for traditional medicines; incorporation of sex education in primary and secondary curricula; and decriminalisation of HIV/AIDS.
Development of science and technology in ACP countries as a powerful development tool
3.2.6 A presentation was made which underscored that increased use of information communication technology (ICT) was good for growth and productivity, trade, investment and public finance, employment creation and poverty reduction. The Committee agreed that ICT if sufficiently deployed could be a key driver in the ACP countries. The ACP lamented the relative progress in this direction and called for effective collaboration between policy makers and researchers. While the EC DG DevCO argued that it had focused on ICT under the 9th, 10th and 11th EDF programmes, it came under scrutiny by the Committee as to why the EC still relied on the 2001 Communication despite the dramatic changes and developments that had affected the digital sphere.
Refugee and internally displaced children in Africa: what educational perspectives
3.2.7 The Committee exchanged views with a representative of the Save the Children Fund which premised its presentation on its experience in Kenya (and the Horn of Africa) and opposed Kenya's decision to close Dadaab the biggest refugee camp on the border with Somalia. It was revealed that six out of ten people in Dadaab were children and that 14.5 million people in the Horn of Africa needed food assistance while half a million needed emergency assistance. Challenges cited in the crisis included political instability, conflict, drought, sexual and gender-based violence, lack of reconciliation in source countries (e.g. DRC, Ethiopia and Rwanda) which prevented return.
3.2.8 In the animated discussion, the representative of Kenya, citing serious security concerns, insisted that despite a court reprieve, the
Dadaab camp would be closed. He criticised travel advisories by some Western countries on Kenya which affected tourism and diminished revenue that helped the country to cope with such issues. ACP MPs from Africa stressed the need to address the root causes of the problems and queried who armed the fighting groups and whether or not instability was only due to democracy deficits. Different views on strategy emerged with the ACP calling for a long-term (stability, return and sustainability) and the EU (stressing education delivery). It was resolved that the political issues should be raised in the Political Affairs Committee while the Social Affairs Committee would focus on the cooperation issues.
Revision of the European Consensus on Development: What
Consequences for the ACP-EU Development Cooperation
3.2.9 The Committee had robust discussion under the topic. The EU informed the meeting that since October 2016, several steps had been taken by the European Council leading to the adoption of the Revised Consensus seeking to adapt the EU's development cooperation and align it with the United Nations Agenda 2030. Key elements were the nexus between migration and development, fighting poverty and exclusion, good governance, empowering partner countries, combating tax evasion and capital flight from partner countries.
3.2.10 MEP Norbet Neuser the EP Co-Rapporteur underscored the need for regular updates on the implementation of Agenda 2030 by the EU given that some member states were yet to meet the 0.7% ODA target, that the Brexit would eliminate a major donor (UK) and that the US was pressing for the EU to commit more resources (2%) into security.
3.2.11 MEPs fronted by Catherine Bearder stated that the ACP needed to stand on its feet and not rely on EU benevolence; called for fair Intra-ACP and ACP-EU trade; insisted that the EU should not get ACP raw materials at 0% tariff; urged the ACP states to add value to their raw materials and argued that there should be no aid to countries with human rights violations (and cited alleged human rights violations against minorities in Ethiopia's Ogaden region).
3.2.12 In support, the European Commission's Director General Development Cooperation elaborated that the new vision for the next fifteen years was being defined to mirror Agenda 2030 focusing on People, Planet, Prosperity and Peace. The EU would seek working together on joint programming, trust funds, partnerships and resource mobilisation, whether public/private or domestic and international.
Funds would be allocated in 2020.
3.2.13 The ACP led by Namibia urged the EU to: prioritise in the revision of its development strategy, value addition and beneficiation in the ACP regions which were the source markets of raw materials to the EU for centuries; identify and deal with its multinational or transnational companies that were involved in illicit financial outflows from developing ACP states; transfer technology and assess the impact of conditional aid on job creation, trade and development.
3.3 ACP-EU Committee on Economic Development, Finance and Trade
3.3.1 Members of the joint Committee discussed among other issues, the implementation of Economic Partnership Agreements. The European Commission indicated that it was now focused on implementation rather than negotiation of the EPAs. It was reported that the ECOWAS and East Africa Community EPA regions were yet to implement the Agreement as other member countries were yet to sign and ratify the agreements.
3.3.2 Nigeria’s delegation stated that his country was not going to sign the EPA unless the negotiations were reopened to address issues of deindustrialisation and revenue losses.
3.3.3 The European Commission was categoric and indicated that countries with issues needed to solve them at regional level. It should be noted that in the ECOWAS EPA group, Nigeria together with The
Gambia and Mauritania were the only countries that had not signed the ECOWAS EPA, while in EAC, Tanzania, Burundi and Uganda had not signed, a development that had resulted in the non-implementation of the EPAs in these regions. Noteworthy was that only 28 out of 79 ACP countries were implementing EPAs. A delegate from Mauritius stressed the need to conclude a comprehensive EPA for the Eastern and Southern Africa (ESA) region. In response, the European Commission indicated that deepening and widening of the EPA was a possibility in the context of outstanding chapters.
3.3.4 The ACP members enquired on how the ACP countries were to access the €400 million which was set aside by the European Commission to support the implementation of the World Trade Organisation’s Trade Facilitation Agreement (TFA) which entered into force on 22 February 2017. The European Commission indicated that the funds were to be disbursed via multilateral organisations such as the World Bank. The ACP side expressed concern over the difficulties encountered when accessing the EDF funds stating that approval processes were cumbersome. The European Commission indicated that it had launched the mid-term review of the 11th EDF and a public consultation was underway. The ACP side was urged to participate in the review.
4.0 Lunch Organised by the Group of the Progressive
Alliance of Socialists & Democrats in the European Parliament
4.1 Hon. Daniel Shumba was invited to the S&D lunch along with other Members of Parliament from key ACP countries, among them Burkina Faso, Namibia, Mali and Uganda on 23 March. Several S&D
Members of the European Parliament, diplomats as well as Dr. Patrick
Gomes, the ACP Secretary General and staffers from the European
Parliament attended the fully subscribed event.
4.2 The Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists &
Democrats (S&D), the second largest political group in the European Parliament has a social democratic political orientation and dates back to
1953 at the start of the European Parliament.
4.3 In her introductory remarks, Ms Maria Arena, Member of Parliament (MEP) and Facilitator (the S&D) stressed the importance of camaraderie and referred to the outcome of the meeting of ACP-EU Bureau of the Joint Parliamentary Assembly held the previous day at which sharp differences over the agenda and clashes between ACP Members of Parliament and EU Co-President Louis Michel had occurred.
4.4 MEP Maria Arena informed that in the Joint Bureau, EU CoPresident Louis Michel had proposed that the current session of the JPA should discuss the growing influence of China in Africa but the EU side was surprised by ACP Co-President Baldeh's and the Africans' reaction vehemently opposing that proposal. She described as odd the reason put forward by Co-President Baldeh that the ACP strongly objected to the EU meddling with and contaminating the debate on Africa-China relations with issues of human rights and the environment.
4.5 In her words, Africa was entitled to do as it pleased but the declarations undermined the discussions on the Africa-EU relations and the pillars of governance and development under Cotonou Agreement since Africa had zeroed in on trade only. This was a wrong signal to reject the other two pillars, she stated.
4.6 Rather rhetorically, MEP Maria Arena asked whether or not
Co-President Baldeh was speaking his own views or he represented the ACP? Was it Co-President Louis Michel who was patronising and condescending on his part? Should the EU talk to Louis Michel so that trust and confidence was not lost. She surmised that the matter was significant and needed to be discussed.
4.7 The MP of Burkina Faso stated that his party was on the left and that forging relations with China was part of globalisation and as a result, sovereign nations could strike relations with other nations respecting the leftist principles and values. His view was that in the post-
2020 relations with the EU, the ACP should underscore its belief in equality, solidarity and the promotion of human rights and respect for values to the left.
4.8 The MP from Namibia prefaced his remarks by stating that an injury to one was an injury to all and categorically rejected any discussion on relations with China. He contextualised that the EU should understand Africa from the exploitation of its resources by EU settlers and economic refugees which built the infrastructure that the EU had today. Just as the EU had relations with the United States (US), the EU should let Africa define its trade exchanges and not meddle with its relations with other partners.
4.9 Commenting on the behaviour of MEP Louis Michel,
Namibia lambasted MEPs for not standing with the ACP MPs when Louis Michel treated the latter like kids and "dictated nonsense" to them as what had happened at the Joint Bureau meeting the day before. Africa today could not be treated in the same manner that its forefathers faced at the hands of colonialists. The MP angrily criticised the EU for
"stretching" Zimbabwe under regime change tactics and also deplored the detention of an African in Denmark being subjected to medical experiments or trials.
4.10 MEP Kyenge argued that she had been a victim of racism in Italy, suggested that issues needed to be separated namely the struggle on human rights which was a political matter on the one hand and racism/xenophobia. While saying no to xenophobia, she urged that focus should be to talk about the role of peace and stopping impunity.
4.11 Commenting on relations with China, MEP Kyenge conceded that the ACP could freely choose its partners but respecting the values of human rights. She informed that in 2015 she visited the DRC and saw mass graves which the government allegedly described as graves of poor people showing no appreciation of human life. Her point was that countries needed to tackle issues that were being swept under the carpet and that if there were political prisoners, they should be tried and be released.
4.12 Hon. Dr. Shumba supported the views of his Namibian counterpart and stated that the ACP-EU relationship should be sincere, show commitment and mutual respect and be of equal partners. He added that MEP Louis Michel was disrespectful despite ACP MPs being representatives of political parties and countries.
4.13 Commenting on Zimbabwe-China relations which he said was a sovereign right with whom to trade, Hon. Dr. Shumba attacked the EU and US sanctions against Zimbabwe which he said undermined the capacity to provide descent life, health service and other support. He argued that this was a violation of human rights through economic suffocation and noted that the EU did not condemn that.
4.14 He added that trade with China was helping to address infrastructure, its support had no conditionalities unlike EU aid or
European Development Fund (EDF) which was difficult to access. Hon. Dr. Shumba remarked that the relations with the EU were worrying to old and new power players and in that context, he criticised the EU for pushing to undertake a fact-finding mission to Zimbabwe and yet it conspired with strategic NGOs to cause regime change in the country. The unilateral fact-finding mission was intended to undermine a legitimate government suffocated by lack of resources.
4.15 In the same breadth, he queried why the EU wanted to actively participate in Zimbabwe's electoral process when the sanctions were in place and its biased NGOs were creating pressure on the populace. He condemned the European Parliament for adopting a nonlegislative resolution against Zimbabwe on 16 March 2017 based on unfounded allegations.
4.16 The French MEP intervened and said that Louis Michel was right in substance but what he said was unacceptable and was condescending in the manner he explained issues and should change his way of speaking not content. He insisted that some of Louis Michel's proposals were good. Calling for fraternalism, he argued that certain regimes in Africa were undemocratic and did not respect human rights and therefore that should be condemned. His conclusion was that the two Co-Chairs (Mr Baldeh and Mr Michel) should unite.
4.17 The MP from Mali stated that Africa's sovereign right to develop trade relations with other partners was not negotiable. He pointed out that the continent's relations with China went back more than fifty years ago and that China's project implementation in Africa took a shorter period (1-2 years) while the EU took longer (3-5 years).
The MP challenged the EU to explain how many agreed projects at the Valletta Summit had been implemented and remarked that the EU should review its approach. Commenting on MEP Louis Michel's reaction, the MP described it as uncalled for and argued forcefully that
Co-President Baldeh's point (which Louis Michel ignored) was not that Africa did not respect human rights. He underscored that Africa had signed treaties on human rights and was bound by international obligations such as the Paris Agreement. He added that Africa was opposed to impunity and conceded that indeed some leaders in Africa "killed". It was therefore incumbent upon the ACP to be exemplary in order to gain respect.
4.18 The MP from Uganda added his strong disapproval of Louis Michel's utterances and the EU stance on China stating that Africa today was different and its independence should have meaning. There should therefore be no intimidation as this was a partnership. He cautioned the EU never to help where it was not requested and elaborated that Africa had indicated its priorities to the EU but the latter ignored that and was delving into its own areas of focus. In his view, if China was bad, the EU should do better and said it was unthinkable for the EU to imagine that MPs would come to Brussels and contradict their Heads of State and Government on cooperation with China. The MP concluded saying that the ACP wanted to discuss relevant issues.
4.19 The MP for Trinidad & Tobago and representing Overseas Countries and Territories defended his country's relations with China arguing that China (followed by Brazil) was coming up fast with development aid and was engaged in serious business, developing infrastructure and creating jobs. He insisted that the ACP was a collective group of sovereign states and observed that at this time, that the review of the Cotonou Agreement had begun, the EU had raised two issues - the role of China in Africa and the European External
Investment Plan (EEIP) both which omitted the Caribbean! Was the EU fearing a Cotonou with China, he asked and concluded by stating that the ACP needed to be treated with respect.
4.20 After the robust exchanges, MEP Maria Arena the Facilitator assured the ACP members that the message on the unacceptable attitude of Co-President Louis Michel would be conveyed to him and she opined that it was difficult to convey a good message in the manner in which he presented himself. She acknowledged that the ACP countries were sovereign but insisted that the EU wanted to assess the impact of its agreements on the partnership with the EU.
4.21 Regarding the issue of values, the Facilitator suggested that at the next meeting, a document mapping out these values would be discussed in order to exchange best practices. Finally, on the impact of sanctions, she suggested that there should be debate within the JPA preferably adopting joint positions against the liberals in the EU and the
ACP, that is debating in the ideological rather than North-South context.
5.0 Comments
- The strong protest by the ACP group of MPs registered effectively and should shake the arrogance of MEP Louis Michel who is not new to such condescending attitude and controversy vis-a-vis the ACP Parliamentary Assembly. It was clear that his strategy, by attacking Co-President Baldeh, was to alienate him from the rest of the ACP and yet it was
the ACP Parliamentary Assembly as a body that had decided against any discussion of Africa's relations with China as well as the issue of the proposed withdrawal by some African states from the International Criminal Court (ICC).
- The two divisive subjects highlighted the weaknesses in the agenda setting process which currently allowed the EU to arm twist the compromised ACP and foist its issues while ignoring the concerns of the ACP. For instance, in the Joint Bureau, the ACP reportedly proposed to discuss the issue of radicalisation but the EU refused. With the review of the ACP-EU relations post-Cotonou now underway, there is need for candid debate on the definition of the future partnership.
- The EU fears of the growing influence of China in Africa and the Caribbean's concerns that it was being left out would certainly be active undercurrents during the on-going reflections on the future of ACP-EU relations.
EMERGING ISSUES
|
RECOMMENDATION |
ACTION |
RESPONSIBILITY |
TIMELINE |
1. |
Condemnation of EU Sanctions Against Zimbabwe and the European Union Parliament’s Resolution on Zimbabwe
|
See Annexure 1 |
Leader of the delegation |
Done |
2. |
European Union’s outreach to ACP Countries by 3 former Commissioners to exchange views with the ACP leadership in preparation for negotiations on the postCotonou relations |
ACP Parliamentarians proposed that ACP Ambassadors should identify experts to undertake the exercise and take part in the negotiations. |
H.E. Ambassador T. T. Chifamba |
|
3. |
The future of the International Criminal Court after possible withdrawal by some African States. |
Non-Members were urged to sign/ratify the Rome Statute. |
Zimbabwe is not a signatory to this Statute |
|
4. |
The allegation that some ACP and EU countries were subject to interference through foreign financing of political parties |
The EU argued that they provided support to strengthen democracy through CSOs and Parliaments. |
Parliamentarians |
|
5. |
The growing influence of China in African matters and the assertion that unlike China, Europe presented long term, equal and sustainable partnerships |
Parliamentarians argued that it was the sovereign decision of Member States to co-operate with China and the co-operation was sustainable, contrary to EU aid which involved cumbersome procedures. |
|
|
6. |
ACP Parliamentarians noted that political dialogue was one sided, focusing on ACP problems, lacked dynamism and forced countries to change their domestic policies |
|
|
|
7. |
The role of sport in social development, sponsorship and marketing of sport and provision of sustainable technical assistance was emphasised. |
The recommendation will be referred to the relevant Portfolio Committee and Ministry |
|
|
ACP urged the EU to prioritise value addition and beneficiation in the revision of its development strategy; deal with multinational and transnational companies involved in illicit financial flows from developing ACP states; and Technology transfer and to assess the impact of conditional aid on job creation, trade and development. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKERS GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I recognise the presence in the
Speaker’s gallery of students and teachers from Acturus High School and Morgan ZINTEC College. You are most welcome.
BUS ACCIDENT
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I also wish to draw the
attention of the House to a fatal bus accident which occurred in Hurungwe North Constituency yesterday. I invite you all to rise and observe a moment of silence as a mark of respect for the late 46 passengers who were travelling in that bus.
All Hon. Members observed a minute of silence
REQUEST FOR A MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yesterday, during question
time, Hon. Members requested the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to make a comprehensive Ministerial Statement on pensions that were eroded by dollarisation. I have to advise the House that the Ministerial Statement will be made by the Minister of Finance as the Minister responsible for pensions administration. This will be done when the statement is ready.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a matter of privilege Madam
Speaker, I wish to thank you for raising a very important observation regarding the accident that has occurred. It is a very serious issue and as a Member speaking on behalf of other Members of Parliament, we convey our sincere condolences. However, we were expecting that we would hear from Government what is being done in the context of this very tragic development. We are fortunate to have the Acting President Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa, the Vice President of the Republic. Is there something that the Government intends to do or has already done to try and help the families and also just to show the indications and the attitude of Government in the context of this very sad and tragic development Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member but
I think it was just notification of what happened. At the moment, I do not think we have something which has been done, but I think the Vice President can give a response.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGANGWA): Madam Speaker, with a heavy heart I confirm the notification that you have made in this august House. I came in and went out immediately. At the time I went out some few minutes ago, there were 44 people who died but you have announced 46.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, I was given the information by someone.
HON. E. MNANGAGWA: Okay, 44 died and 31 are critically
injured and we dispatched the Minister of Local Government to assess the situation and in the process, Government is preparing to assist upon declaring the incident a national disaster. We shall make the announcement later.
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday 13th June, 2017.
Hon. Chimanikire having stood up to debate.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The time I asked for debate Hon. Chimanikire was seated. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Yes, I am able to see what is happening. Why are you forcing me? I think he realised it later that he wanted to debate but the time I asked if there was any debate, there was no one standing up.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that we
revert to Order of the Day, Number 2.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 1) BILL
[H.B. 1, 2017]
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Reading of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 1) Bill,
(H.B. 1, 2017).
Question again proposed.
HON. CROSS: Madam Speaker, I rise on this particular debate because this is absolutely critically important to the nation as a whole. I want to point out that it is four and half years since we have adopted the new Constitution. During this time, I doubt if we have amended more than four or five pieces of legislation to bring them into line with the new Constitution. So, implementation of the new Constitution probably stands at about 5%, with 95% still to be aligned. I also point out that we spent two years on this exercise, we consulted the entire country and then had a referendum in which the great majority of people voted in support of the new Constitution in its entirety.
Now, the first act of the Government is to bring forward an amendment which undermines one of the most fundamental principles of the new Constitution which is the separation of powers. I believe that the separation of powers in our new Constitution has not been adequately addressed. I would have liked to have seen, for example, that all
Members of Cabinet should not be Members of this House so that
Cabinet is held fully responsible to this House for its actions, and that was not done. We agreed on that aspect as parties on a on a consensual basis.
The issue of the independence of the judiciary is an absolutely fundamental principle recognised in international law and practiced by democracies throughout the world. We now come forward with an amendment which is going to undermine that principle. I want to ask my colleagues on the opposite side, are they prepared to pay the price that will be the consequence of this action? For example, it is going to be recognised by the rest of the world as an attack on the rule of law, an attachment on our Constitution and as violation of the will of the people of Zimbabwe.
If you want to amend the Constitution like this, let us take it back to the people. Let us have a referendum and if the referendum says yes, then I will go along with it. But for us to attempt to change the
Constitution simply because the opposition in this House has a clear two thirds majority and they can ran this thing through Parliament; over our dead bodies, because we are going to oppose this at every stage.
Madam Speaker, this proposal has very severe consequences, not just for us in this House, not just for the people of Zimbabwe but for the whole community of Africa. I was deeply relieved when the Chief Justice was appointed by the President following the procedure which is laid down in the Constitution. I felt it was a victory for the rule of law, for constitutionalism and that it was a sound decision. We support the new Chief Justice and we think he is the excellent choice. He certainly was the best choice of the panel.
I was hoping that this particular amendment to the Constitution would have been dropped at this stage. In fact, by bringing it forward to the House today, I believe it sends a very negative signal, not just to our critics in the West, but to the entire world and I believe it is fundamentally wrong. I would be most happy if the Vice President would remove this Bill from the agenda of this House. Thank you.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Members who debated yesterday and today. In 2013 when we were doing our Constitution, I was one of those people who were gathering information from people in Mashonaland West Constituency, which represents a fifth of the whole country. I was one of the rapporteurs. I do not see any conflict on this issue. All of us are talking about the Constitution and what people said. I hear people from the other side saying rule of law whilst in the Constitution it is said that for us to change that part, we should have two thirds majority.
So, I do not see where the Constitution is not being followed. What people said in 2013, I do not see where we are violating the Constitution or where the rule of law is being affected, we are saying the same thing. We are following the Constitution. I said we listened to what people said. When we came up with the Constitution, at the end it is not a secret that the document was agreed upon so that we would go for elections and look at it after elections. People who do not agree with that are lying to themselves.
Madam Speaker, we now have a problem in this country over people who think that they are the gurus and well versed in the law. They think that they are learned by being lawyers. We have lawyers who are learned but we have people who are being imprisoned. Almost a third of the people who are in our prisons are innocent because of incompetent lawyers whom they engage. They are lawyers who advise people in bad faith. If it is ZANU PF which is bringing this into the House, it is doing what is according to the law. Whether you are a guru or what, ZANU PF is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Can I have protection?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, can the Hon. Member
be heard in silence please.
HON. PHIRI: There are people who choose to change the goal posts such that if today they feel that it is the correct thing, they change the goal post. Like what is happening now, we want to follow the Constitution. The people on my right side have changed the goal post and said it is not in the Constitution. I am very lucky today Madam
Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can we
have order in the House.
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order. The point of order I am trying to make Madam Speaker, is that the mover of the motion, the Hon. Vice President of this Republic, the Acting President is a lawyer and a serious man and he wants to take notes when Members of
Parliament are making contributions. Achimwene is lost – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – totally lost, he must focus – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I will speak in Chichewa
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – If I call for order, I will be calling on everybody. Hon. Maridadi, can you please stand up. What do you mean when you say achimwene?
HON. MARIDADI: Chichewa is one of the languages in the
Constitution and achimwene…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is it one of the languages in
Zimbabwe?
HON. MARIDADI: Yes it is. It is actually the first. I will speak in Chichewa. Chichewa is listed – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Order,
can we have order in the House. Hon. Maridadi, what does achimwene means?
HON. MARIDADI: I will put it into a sentence in Chichewa so that he hears me.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am asking you so that I hear. I want to understand. I just want to hear what is meant by the word achimwene. Why should you speak in Chichewa when I am asking you to explain to me what achimwene means?
HON. MARIDADI: Achimwene is a Chichewa word which means brother – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why do you not speak what
we all understand?
HON. MARIDADI: No, I am using a language that he understands.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Does it mean brother?
HON. MARIDADI: No. We do not allow you as a Member of
Parliament to call an Hon. Member of Parliament brother. Call him an Hon. Member, we are doing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – ndifuna kuti pachiChichewa…(speaking in Chichewa) –
[Laughter.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are out of order Hon.
Maridadi. Can you take your seat?
HON. MARIDADI: He is totally lost, he is in the bush and has stayed there. Can he please come back into the House?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why is it that you are also lost
Hon. Member? Can you please sit down?
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Tichaonana – [Laughter.] – (Speaking in Chichewa) – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – (continues to speak in Chichewa) –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. You
were debating in Shona, you are now confusing the Hansard.
HON. PHIRI: I was responding to him in his Nyanja language. I am very lucky because after yesterday’s debate, I went back and researched so that I find out what is happening in other countries. In
Ghana and Namibia, the Presidents do the appointments. In the Nigerian Constitution [Chapter 12], you will notice that they also have that provision. We are debating on the issue of the President making appointments. In all those countries, the President does the appointments. Yes, we said that we will be in agreement. The President appoints in consultation. Why does the President consult? If you look at the United States of America…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Order Hon.
Members! Hon. Nduna, you must be reminded of what the Speaker said yesterday.
HON. NDUNA: Do not worry Hon. Speaker. I am quite cognizant – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Madam Speaker, I am not standing here on a frivolous point of order. I am standing on a point of privilege and I am quite aware that when a President goes into office, it is because the people have spoken – [HON.
ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, I seek that the Hon. Member be guided accordingly.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Nduna!
HON. NDUNA: He seeks to have the President come through the back door and that cannot be allowed Madam Speaker. You need to make a ruling – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, we are in
Parliament – [HON. MUTSEYAMI: Inaudible interjections.] - Hon. Mutseyami, we are in Parliament. I could not hear your point of order, Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker for indulging me.
Hon. Zwizwai keeps shouting to the effect that he would want to have a President of his choice other than through the ballot box. That cannot be condoned – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Not here now, not then and not in the future. Madam Speaker, if he continues that way, you need to make a ruling or you need to show him the exit. We are all creatures of the Constitution, whether opposition or otherwise. You cannot have your cake and eat it. If you want to indulge in politics, you need to come through the ballot box. You cannot create a President other than through the ballot box – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Wakadya mari yemaroads iwewe.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Nduna. Hon.
Zwizwai, behave yourself. Hon. Nduna, if you rise and have a point of order, please you have to make it straight to the point. You cannot debate; it is not a platform for you to debate. You are not the one who is supposed to give a ruling. Hon. Zwizwai, please withdraw your words that you keep on shouting. You are not supposed to be shouting.
HON. ZWIZWAI: Which words?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Whatever you were shouting,
you have to withdraw.
HON. ZWIZWAI: Which one?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That you will have a President
of your choice without the ballot.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Excuse me Madam Chair. I do not agree
with the sentiments echoed by Hon. Nduna in saying that I prefer a President who is not elected. I did not say that and I know Hansard is recording verbatim. You should not use us as a valve for relieving the tension raised through party factionalism – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - He is one of the people who pretends to love the President, His Excellency, Cde. Mugabe because we know he is one of the people who nicodemously goes and plot against him. I am advising these people to go and discuss these things, get the right information and say whatever it is that they want because they are pretending to love His Excellency and yet in actual fact they are talking about factions.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members,
regarding the point of order raised by Hon. Nduna, we are going to listen to what was said by Hon. Zwizwai and we are going to give a ruling because we do not want you to abuse this facility of Points of Order.
Please do not defend whatever it is you were saying. Hon. Phiri, may you please continue.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. As I was saying, there is a lot of noise in this august House and you cannot make any meaningful contribution. In the United States of America, we have heard that there is something being said by Trump, the President of the United States and he installed a Judge who is in agreement with conservative ideas. This Judge supports conservative ideas and is the youngest Judge so far who is 49 years. He was appointed to that bench because of his ideology. What I am saying is, the President should be given the power to appoint the judges who follow the ideology which will be prevailing at that time.
What we know is that when we talk of the ideology of Zimbabwe, according to the Constitution and the values which we should support, Zimbabwe was freed through a liberation struggle. If Judges are appointed by any other people with no reliable background, they simply pick on other people who may not be suitable for that position and may not have the record of the war of liberation.
People go to the election to be appointed to rule the country. There are many ways of ruling the country and one of them is through the President of the State. You may also rule the country according to the courts. You may also rule according to the work which is done in that country. That means, if the President appoints a Judge, the Judge is supposed to be following and interpreting the laws.
Let us talk of the Chief Justice. We need to follow the sentiments of that time. We do not need to have a Judge who runs for 20 to 30 years and yet he will be running contrary to the sentiments of the ruling party. The Judge should follow prevailing political situations. That is why, when we talk of constitutional amendment, we talk of two-thirds majority. When you have two-thirds majority, it means you are supported by the people. That also empowers you to make whatever constitutional changes you may want.
We know there were checks and balances done in the Constitution and these also apply to the referendum. What we are saying is, if you did not want the Constitution to be changed, you would have not fired your own fellow people from the party. Your numbers have reduced because you fired your own members. Therefore, you gave us the power to do as we want. Thank you Madam Speaker.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I want to recognise the
presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of students and teachers from Vimbayi
High School. You are welcome – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. CHAKONA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
just want to run through a few issues that I think are pertinent in so far as the - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Members at the back, may Hon. Chakona please be heard in silence?
HON. CHAKONA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
just said I want to draw to your attention a few issues that I think will add to the debate in motion. Firstly, I was just looking at the process of appointing a judge according to the new Constitution. The new Constitution basically just provides a form that anyone can complete and nominate a person to become a Judge, irrespective of whether that person is experienced or not. At the same time, if you look at it, the same form refers to Section 177, 178 and 179 of the Constitution as read with 180.
Madam Speaker, when I looked at those; the procedure of the nomination of a Judge according to the new Constitution leaves a lot to be desired because now a person can merely campaign to become a Judge and be appointed by people to become a Judge and that is very dangerous and undesirable if we are serious in terms of integrity and quality of our Judges. The same Constitution, Chapter 7 of the Judicial Services Act, spells out exactly how the Judicial Services Commission is composed of and it makes it clear that the Chief Justice himself is part of the Judicial Services Commission. The Judge President is part of that and three other Judges that are nominated by the President. It also states that the commissioners are appointed by the President. Therefore, if the commissioners are appointed by the President, I do not see the reason why the same President is not qualified to appoint a Chief Justice.
Going further, the Chairman of the Public Service Commission is also part of the Judicial Services Commission. I then would like to make it very clear that on the 1st of May, 2016, a man by the name Tazorora Musarurwa wrote an article where he was analysing the
Judicial Services Commission. He said, in 2010 when the then Judge President, Justice Rita Makarau was opening the judicial year; she bemoaned the lack of proper remuneration and services for the Judges and the Judicial Services. In that address, Justice Makarau spelt out that the Judicial Services was not being properly looked after. In that same article he said, “In May, 2010 just after bringing into operation of the Act, Justice Makarau had been promoted to Supreme Court and was now the Judge of Appeal. I stand corrected; Justice Makarau although having sat on the Supreme Court bench has never written a Supreme Court judgment. This is because soon after her appointment, Makarau was appointed to Acting Secretary of the Judicial Services Commission. Clearly the authorities wanted Makarau to be responsible for fixing that which she claimed had been harming the Judicial Services. Her failure would leave no one to blame; considering the political and economic environment, she had done well.”
This actually means that the prime role of the Judicial Services Commission was basically to look at the affairs of the Judicial Services or the affairs, remuneration packages and welfare of members of the Judiciary. When this extended task of selecting Chief Justice was brought into the Constitution, it now sort of like contradicts with the spirit of why the Judicial Services Commission was created in the first instance in 2007. I then go by the motion that the appointment of the Chief Justice should be left to the President himself.
Madam Speaker, I am a Member of Parliament as you know. In my Constituency, I work with the people who I feel subscribe to the notion and ideology that I want to run my Constituency. I cannot see myself having somebody giving me people to work with in my
Constituency and equally so, if I at my micro-level would want to put up my own team to work with; I believe it is the same spirit that the President should also be viewed that he should also be viewed that he is afforded the opportunity to put a team that he works with - [HON.
GONESE: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Gonese.
HON. CHAKONA: Especially a person who heads the Judicial Services Commission. Madam Speaker, if you read the article that was written by Tazorora carefully; he makes it clear that the Judicial Services
Commission duties are not to select judges. I rest my case, thank you. –
[HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Ziyambi, you are the Chairman of the Committee.
HON. NDEBELE: Good afternoon Madam Speaker, thank you
for recognising me. I am not a lawyer like most people who have contributed but I will make an effort to speak like a lawyer for a very few minutes so that I do not lose it.
Madam Speaker, allow me to begin by stating that, like my right Honourables, I love my country but it is at times like these when I am really ashamed of my Government. I will explain Madam Speaker. It is very sad and regrettable that the ruling party is on and all out to amend the Constitution so early in its lifespan. Those who are in the know argue that the Constitution itself is sui generis. It happens to be an Act of Parliament but it is an Act of Parliament in a class of its own, completely different from other Acts of Parliament. In that regard, it is untouchable, it is the supreme law of the land and I am happy that our Constitution in Section 2 states as much. It may not be cast in stone but that does not mean that we should change it lightly. Why in the Zimbabwean case? 94.5% of our voters in this country endorsed the
2013 Constitution in its current state.
Hon. Speaker, to allow an amendment so early in the life span of our Constitution is playing extreme liberties with the Constitution itself. We must let it remain intact and uninterfered with. Let the courts play their constitutional rights of interpreting the Constitution. Our courts are known throughout time that if there are grey areas, they refer them to this august House for amendment without fail. We cannot amend the Constitution to elevate mediocrity. Let those who want to be Chief Justice compete publicly like what we saw happening. Let it not be done behind closed doors. Why are we afraid of our children? They are all Zimbabweans, let them compete in public and let the public judge who deserves to be.
To put it differently, Madam Speaker, the Constitution itself in Section 90 invites the President - unfortunately, the Acting President has gone out, but it invites the President to protect it. So, it is his duty to protect the Constitution. When members at some point stood up here to congratulate his Excellency for appointing Chief Justice Malaba, I never felt the urge because I knew he was merely satisfying his duty as President; he was protecting the Constitution. In the same Section 90 (2), the Constitution urges the President to recognise and respect the ideals and values of the liberation struggle. I always say in this House that I was born in the war and the reason people went to war is not to concentrate power on one individual - that is not to why we went to war. Power cannot be centered on one individual. The Constitution says as much.
Madam Speaker, let me submit that in my belief, these amendments are being driven by people who want to please the President or to put it differently, they know he may want so much power as to select the Chief Justice himself. I am weighed down with grief and sadness as I debate the proposed amendments.
However, increasingly Madam Speaker, I hear it out there; the young people of this country are getting incensed with developments taking place in this country. We are losing patience with the elderly – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- It is true. Madam
Speaker, let me submit once more that there are more pressing issues facing this Government than amending the Constitution. I could take hours on hand listing them but there is 95% unemployment rate in this country that is affecting the young. There is deepening economic problems that should be addressed before amending the Constitution. The industry has shut down. Where I come from in Bulawayo, industry has died; it has come to a standstill. To me, that is a priority other than amending the Constitution to concentrate power on one man.
There are cash shortages; we have elderly people where I bank at the POSB. Those things require urgent attention. So, they take priority over the amendment of a Constitution like this. There are factional wars on the other side of the House that are threatening the operations of
Government House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-. Those must be addressed before we look into constitutional amendments like this. Why are we shredding a new Constitution so early in time
Madam Speaker? There are progressive provisions within that
Constitution that this Government should be driving such as devolution.
If we had devolved power, I am definitely sure that the provincial council in Manicaland would not have lost US$15 billion.
Madam Speaker, there is a stronger call for transparency and respect for separation of powers as provided for in Section 180. The current procedure is transparent, a Zimbabwe not a foreigner is selected publicly and then the President is not removed at all from the whole process. Three names are referred to him, there is that back and forth and I do not need to labour on that. That process as it stands respects the separation of powers. Now, if you take us back to a situation where the President has to select his own man, his personal appointee, we are back to partisan appointments. This proposal is even way worse than what was obtaining in that ‘cease fire document’ they called the Lancaster House Constitution. There, he would refer to the others who had teeth to say no, but in the current amendment, he refers to the Senate and that on its own in my view is a deja vu! It is concentration of power on one individual.
Madam Speaker, there is a lot that this Executive President is able to do on his own. If you indulge me, I will quickly go through that; it began with the Executive Presidency in 1987. The President appoints heads of defence, police, intelligence, correctional services; he can also act without reference to Cabinet or indeed anyone else when appointing and dismissing members of the Service Commissions. He does not have to consult the Cabinet or anyone else when deploying the Defence Forces inside or outside the country though after deploying them he has to tell Parliament why he did so. He merely consults the Cabinet and does not have to act on its recommendation when granting pardons. He also acts in his own personal discretion when calling elections and referendums, when conferring honours and awards and appointing Ambassadors. What more power? I repeat Madam Speaker, what more power in a democracy? I have full respect for the Acting President and I know he is a lawyer; he will steal a leaf from my small contribution.
I also want to quote the late Dr. Zvobgo because I know there are voices that Dr. Zvobgo spoke about on the other side of the House before he passed on. Dr. Zvobgo said, “Of these people that will sing and of these people that think their role in Parliament is to get angry on behalf of others, these mafikizolos have nothing to lose if ZANU PF is harmed. They shout Mugabe’s name loudest and most of them are opportunist, corrupt and incompetent. They know that people do not want them but they believe that they are secure in their blind fanaticism”. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order!
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERLY
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, let me
take this opportunity to recognise the presence in the Speaker’s gallery of students and teachers from Ebenezer High School. You are welcome.
*HON. KATSIRU: Madam Speaker, we have an issue that we
should handle carefully. Although it may look like a big issue, as far as we are concerned it is something that we can easily solve. In this country of ours, it is very clear that we held a referendum, came up with a new Constitution and put in place all the laws within the confinement of the Constitution. It is also very true that all Members who are in this august House represent different constituencies and when I hear that some of these contributors are saying they represent constituencies, they should know that every one of us here represents some constituencies. When we look at what you are saying, we have people who are in the majority and they are the ones who want to amend the Constitution because they have seen a gap which needs to be filled in the law making process, hence they are calling for an amendment. Let me explain further that if we have people that represent the minority and try and go against the people who are in the majority and blame them for trying to change the Constitution then there is something wrong. What we should know about the Constitution is that it is not cast in stone and amendments can be done when it is felt that it is necessary. So, the members of the opposition who are going against this are simply making these contributions just to meet the needs of their handlers in the West.
We also know that as far as they are concerned, it is not their will but they are following the ideas from their handlers.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I hope you
understand your point of order and you will not belittle yourself.
HON. GONESE: I understand my point of order and I will try not to belittle myself Madam Speaker. The Hon. Member in debating, is talking about members having handlers. He made reference to Hon.
Members listening to their handlers and I believe that it is objectionable. We are all Hon. Members in this august House and I believe that we should not belittle each other by making reference to handlers and that
Members here who are opposing the Bill are being directed by outsiders. I believe that those words are not appropriate. We are here to represent our constituencies and I submit that those words should be withdrawn because they are very offensive to Members on this side of the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I would like to say it is important to remain focused on the debate. All of us are Members of Parliament who represent the people. Hon. Katsiru, you may continue with the debate and focus on the debate in question.
*HON. KATSIRU: I just heard one previous speaker saying that all you people who are making these contributions are ingratiating themselves with the President.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Katsiru, please focus on
the debate. I have said you are all Members of Parliament and please just focus on the judiciary debate.
*HON. KATSIRU: Madam Speaker, when we wrote the
Constitution of the country, we made something which was quite different from the Lancaster House Constitution, which had some prohibition clauses to the effect that there would be no changes before a period of 10 years. However, the current Constitution does not have those disclaimer clauses which prohibit changes to be done, hence when we feel there is need to amend some parts of the Constitution, it is our right. We know that the majority of the people who voted us into power will be supporting what we are saying because we support their views.
We come here with all the might given to us by the people who voted us into power. So, it is very essential that we talk of amending the Constitution.
Madam Speaker, as the people of Zimbabwe, we should not
operate on assumptions since those will not be the facts. The fact is that the Constitution which we are now operating on allows that whenever amendments need to be made, they should be done because there will be a gap to be filled. I have realised that at times we have a problem because when we look at the people of Zimbabwe, both the young and old, they all have views that they support. When I am debating, I am talking about my political party ZANU-PF’s policies which is dictating what is good, especially in the replacement and appointment of judges. My party is saying that we should appoint judges who support the views of ZANU PF because it is the ruling party. Now that we are the ruling party – ZANU-PF and we then appoint a judge who is going to support the opposition, that will reflect that he will not be our judge. We will not be able to echo our sentiments but will be fulfilling the mandate of the opposition. That is why we are saying that the country should follow ZANU-PF party policies.
We did not just wake up one day ruling but we went into elections and won resoundingly. The changes we are implementing now are some of the reasons why we won. So we will correct those things that are not right because that is the mandate given to us by the people. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker for
affording me this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion regarding the changes and amendments in the Constitution. I believe that this Constitution was done with the full contribution of the people of Zimbabwe. We have seen that there are some changes which should be done and we are saying, as the majority in this House, we need to change what we feel should be changed because the opposition is already beaten, hence we need to make the necessary changes.
I have also realised that there are some Hon. Members in the opposition who are making contributions and are saying they know that the Constitution should not be changed. They should be aware that the Leader of the House and member of ZANU PF is one of the most educated lawyers and one of the freedom fighters who fought for the liberation of this country; so when he is talking about the constitutional changes, he knows that it has the backing of the reasons why he went to war to fight for the country.
I need to remind members of the opposition that we need to change the Constitution. May I remind them that when we went to the land reform, some of the members of the opposition were supporting that we should not take the land but we took it, and because of the opposition, some of these members took the case to the international courts to try this case, but they did not succeed because some of these people even died abroad trying to reverse the land reform programme. We are saying you are the minority in this place. Therefore, please we are going towards the elections in 2018, but if you are going run away from the truth, I tell you the truth that you are not going to be voted into power in the next elections. Therefore, follow what the people want and why you were elected into power.-[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please give Hon.
Matambanadzo a chance to make his contribution on this motion.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Madam Speaker, I will continue with my contribution. There is an Hon. Member who made his contribution and I feel I should give that person some assistance so that we walk on the same path. Hon. Ndebele made his contribution and yet his background leaves a lot to be desired. Let me look at him, what happened is that his father was a war hero. He fought for the liberation of this country and he is fighting against what his father did. It is quite a shame to his father because his father is lying at the Heroes’ Acre and now he is saying we should not make amendments to the Constitution, and yet he should follow what was done by the people who fought for this country.
As a result, that is why we always say when somebody goes to the opposition party, they will always oppose for the sake of opposing without proper logic. I am saying power should be given to the President.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Matambanadzo, please
do not mix up the languages, use the language that you were using.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker for
your guidance. I had to change the language and speak in English because I have now gone back to school and I am in Grade 3, and I want to show off that I can now make my contributions in English. I will take an example; we have Donald Trump who was elected by the people of the United States. He elected a very young man to be a judge - Trump has already started working on making some changes. He is doing that and yet he is somebody who is new in his seat but he has already made these changes. What will stop His Excellency the President who has been there for 37 years to fail to make changes, yet he has been in that seat for 37 years, how can he be overtaken by Donald Trump?
Some people may say they are educated but may not be knowledgeable. Some were educated in Britain, African countries and some in Zimbabwe. I will say to the people who were educated abroad, especially in Britain that they were given colonial education. When they feel there is something to be changed, they will be feeling that this law was made by the Europeans and it should not be changed. Yet when the
Europeans came, this country was run by our chiefs, the leaders like
Lobengula, Monomutapa and all those people and we had the rulings. The opposition has the sentiments and they believe in the supremacy of the whites, the supremacy of the Europeans and as the indigenous people of Zimbabwe, we are saying we are prepared to change the Constitution and empower President Robert Mugabe. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAEKR: Order Hon. Members.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKR: Let me take this opportunity to recognise the presence of Zengeza Number 3 High School which is in
Speaker’s Gallery. Students and teachers, you are welcome.
HON. CHIRISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is so sad that it is so sad that four years down the line... –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. CHIRISA: Madam Speaker I was saying it is so sad that four years down the line after we approved the Constitution, we are talking of amendments. I do not think it was really necessary to talk about amendments because it will be open for more amendments. The amendments... –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members from my
right let the Hon. Member be heard in silence.
HON. CHIRISA: The amendment is proposing to do away with
the designation of senior judges.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Speaker, speak to the
Chair.
HON. CHIRISA: It also speaks Madam Speaker of abolishing the public interviews and in the amendment I think is also saying the
President’s approval or appointment is final. I do not think it will be fair for people not to contribute or to be involved in matters that concern the citizens. I think in future it should also be recognised that it is better to talk about Acts and not tamper with our Constitution.
The proposed amendments take away the gains made by the
Constitution that we celebrated with regards to transparency, because what it is saying is that the appointment of the Chief Justice is only done by one person who is the President. Madam Speaker, this confirms that the Government is pre-occupied with the Constitution as a means of ligitimising the power and less as a mechanism for limiting such powers. If you compare the Lancaster House Constitution and the current one, you will find that the amendment is reverting to what was in the
Lancaster House Constitution. So, we might as well revert to that Constitution instead of touching on the popular Constitution agreed on by the people of Zimbabwe. Having said that Madam Speaker, I would like to say to the Government and the ruling party, instead of changing or amending the Constitution which was done by all Zimbabweans regardless of political affiliation, they should change the President.
There are a lot of people who are capable of also leading Zimbabwe.
Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaah!] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I think
it is important when debating, to remain focused. When you are doing your summaries and conclusions, please do not try to smuggle some information that is unconstitutional.
*HON. MUKWENA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the
opportunity you have given me. I stood to support the Bill which was brought in by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, who is the Vice President of Zimbabwe and Acting President. I thank the Hon. Minister and his Ministry officials for the expertise they showed. They deliberated and made adequate research so that this Bill can be brought here. It is therefore appropriate for the Bill to be brought here and that is why we are called the lawmakers. The lawmakers are here to scrutinise the Bill which was crafted by the Hon. Minister and his officials. The House is here to scrutinise…
An Hon. Member having tried to pass between an Hon. Member
Speaking and the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, you
cannot cross between an Hon. Member debating and the Chair.
*HON. MUKWENA: Thank you Hon. Madam Speaker. This
House is now scrutinising the Bill which was crafted by the Hon. Minister and his Ministry. I am here to support the Bill as a representative of the people of Chiredzi where we had 30 033 voters who voted for the President of the country, President Robert Mugabe. If we look at that figure, it means that the President of the country was given the power from that Constituency, 30 033 votes, who are more than those in this House. This means that the President was given the power.
When the President appoints the Chief Justice, merit was used and those who are learned know that. The President also used lawyers whom he consulted to help him so that they agree to the appointment of the Chief Justice. So, I am thankful to that decision because it is a good thing. We cannot go against the Constitution of Zimbabwe because it provides that elections must be done after every five years. The outcome of those elections, and the one who obtains two thirds of the majority of votes should constitute the Government. The Government is then responsible for ensuring that governance is done well.
I want to give an example of the Hon. Members on your left. In 1999, a referendum was done and we were defeated and we accepted the outcome. Why is it that the ZANU PF party did not dispute the outcome? It realised that two thirds majority did not agree and the ZANU PF party agreed to it. In this regard, in 2013, the ZANU PF party obtained the two thirds majority of the votes and its leader, the President of the country has the power which he was given by the people. Therefore, we are not looking for anything from the Constitution because the Constitution is the one providing for all those things. If this was not provided for in the Constitution, this Bill would not have been brought into this House. In short, I would like to thank the Hon.
Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Vice President and Acting President for bringing in the Bill. We support it fully. Thank you.
HON. CHIMWAMUROMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker
Ma’am. I understand that we have those who have gone through plans, projects, agenda and even curricula. These go through a process; they are planned, implemented and evaluated. This is what we are doing now. We have evaluated what is good for the people. The needs of the people are the things that make us to do what we are doing now. We do not just make changes, we follow what people need. We noted this with the opposition, when there was need – [AN HON. MEMBER: Addresa Bill mhani opposition yekuita sei.] – It is still the Bill. When there was need for Vice Presidents, they chose two more. This was their need –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members, can the
Hon. Member be heard in silence.
HON. CHIMWAMUROMBE: It was only their President – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I need your protection
Hon. Speaker Ma’am. It was their President who made the decision. They never went around asking for decisions from anybody else. I am surprised today, they are crying foul. It is hypocrisy, they should follow what the people need and what the Constitution provides for – [AN HON. MEMBER: Taurai maprinciples eBill kwete zvamave kurasika izvo.] – The principles of the Bill still come from the people. If we do not follow what the people need…
Hon. Chimwamurombe having been speaking to the gallery.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, speak to the
Chair, stop debating with other Hon. Members. Speak to me.
Hon. Gonese having been speaking to other Hon. Members.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, you are the
opposition Chief Whip, I expect your behaviour to be…
HON. CHIMWAMUROMBE: Madam Speaker Ma’am, when
we evaluated this Bill, we noted that there was need for changes to be made – [AN HON. MEMBER: Uri muCabinet here?] – we are advised by our Executive. When the Executive bring changes to the Bill, they give it to us and we agree on that. This is what we have done and we have agreed that these changes should be done. Changes in this Bill should go through Madam Speaker Ma’am. I thank you.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MARIDADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: 13th June, 2017.
On the Motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON.
MARIDADI, the House adjourned at a Quarter past Four o’clock p.m. until 13th June, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 7th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
RECOMMITTAL OF THE ZEP-RE (MEMBERSHIP OF ZIMBABWE
AND BRANCH OFFICE AGREEMENT) ACT
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Section
131 (6) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe states that: -
“When a Bill is presented to the President for assent and signature, he or she must, within twenty-one days, either –
- Assent to it and sign it and then cause it to be published in the
Gazette without delay;
Or
- If he or she considers it to be unconstitutional or has any other reservations about it, refers the Bill back to Parliament through the Clerk of Parliament, together with detailed written reasons for those reservations and a request that the Bill be considered.
Section 131 (7) further states that:-
‘Where a Bill has been referred back to Parliament in terms of Section 131 (6) (b) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, The Speaker must, without delay, convene a sitting of the National Assembly, which must –
- Reconsider the Bill and fully accommodate the President’s reservations;
Or
- Pass the Bill, with or without amendments, by a two-thirds majority of the total membership of the National Assembly;
His Excellency, the President, informed Parliament on the 2nd of
June, 2017 that he had not assented to the ZEP-RE (Membership of Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement) Act No. 4 of 2017 owing to reservations pertaining to the last paragraph of the preamble on the top page of the Act. The President noted that the sentence in question was not clear on what should be done and who was responsible for the stated enactment.
Thus, in order to facilitate the reconsideration of the Bill, the Bill now stands recommitted to the Committee of the whole House pursuant to Standing Order Number 121 (3) of the National Assemble.
CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP ON THE UN SYSTEMS
AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also wish to inform the House that
Parliament of Zimbabwe, in collaboration with the United Nations (UN)
Agencies, will convene a capacity building workshop for all
Parliamentarians, on the UN Systems and Sustainable Development
Goals on Monday, 12th June, 2017, at the Sango Conference Centre, Cresta Lodge, Msasa in Harare. The buses will pick up Members from Nelson Mandela Avenue from 0730 hours.
ACCOMMODATION FOR HON. MEMBERS DURING OPEN DAY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to advise Hon. Members that they will be provided with accommodation in Harare on Thursday and Friday in order to facilitate their participation in the Open Day activities.
MINISTERS WITH LEAVE OF ABSENCE THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, here is a list of Hon.
Ministers who have sought leave of the House:
- Sen. T. Muzenda;
- M. Chikukwa;
- T. Kanengoni-Malinga;
- Sen. S. Mumbengegwi;
- Eng. Madanha;
- Dr. O. Mpofu;
- O. Muchinguri-Kashiri;
- W. Chidhakwa;
- F. Moyo;
- D. Marapira;
- P. Zhanda;
- Sen. Mupfumira;
- The Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa; The Vice President, Hon. Mphoko.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My question is directed
to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. May you please tell us what Government policy is regarding command livestock in the Matabeleland region? There is a very big difference between command agriculture in Mashonaland and command livestock in Matabeleland. The Mashonaland programme has well known funds allocated and also channels of communication regarding the programme. On the contrary, the livestock programme in Matabeleland has no known rules and regulations of operation. The livestock command programme is not explicit on the livestock covered, such as goats, cattle and sheep.
+THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Thank
you very much Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for a very pertinent question. Firstly, the command livestock programme will be implemented throughout the country and not only confined in the
Matabeleland South Province as is the perception. At the moment, we
are on the drawing board looking at the modalities of implementing this programme.
Tomorrow there is going to be a meeting of the Cabinet Committee responsible for Food Security and Nutrition where all the facets of the livestock command programme will be discussed. This will include the budget and implementation programme. We will discuss cattle, both dairy and beef and also small stock. When we have worked out this programme, we will take it to Cabinet for scrutiny, approval and budget allocation. When Cabinet has made the decision, the public will then be informed of the command livestock programme.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Minister for his response concerning command agriculture on livestock but I want to ask you Minister, what plans you have in place so that CSC will start functioning before you start this programme. What is happening is that people are losing their livestock to the middleman. So if CSC is not functioning properly, people will be conned by the middleman – that is my question
Hon. Minister.
I also want to thank you for command agriculture. I want to thank the Hon. Minister because… – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] - Let me thank him, the Minister sent sacks to all GMB depots so that people do not have problems. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Minister, we want to thank you, you should do the same with the livestock programme. Thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Ziyambi, you are a reputable and well versed lawyer who knows the orders of Parliament, hence you should sit down when you are ordered to do so. It is not a time to thank each other but a time for questions.
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Mr.
Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi for his supplementary question in line with CSC and also clarify the plans that we have in place concerning livestock.
Let me take an example of a maize farmer who has stocked up his harvest which he then takes to the GMB. Regarding the CSC, we are now putting into place measures of resuscitating it so that it operates as per farmers’ requests. We do not expect all the livestock to be taken to the CSC even after we resuscitate it. We are working on a joint programme that will involve the Government and the private sector. We will be working separately but complimenting each other especially the private sector which operates abattoirs. We will also look at the funding of the livestock command programme.
In the agriculture command programme, maize farmers are supposed to surrender a certain tonnage per hectare to Government towards repayment of your obligation. The same mode of operation will be used in the livestock command programme. A farmer who owns a herd of ten cattle and is involved in the command livestock programme may be asked to cede two herds of cattle to the CSC as repayment. We will also seek assistance from the private sector to support this command livestock programme. CSC will work side by side with the private abattoirs depending on the structure of the funding. It could also be poultry but if it is pigs, it will also work in conjunction with CCC or the Pig Industry Board.
When we are talking of cattle ranching, people need pastures and such farmers will need support on the establishment of pastures. They may also need water reticulation for their livestock. This is going to be broad-based in terms of the structures that we will put in place and the farmers will also contribute on the way we should proceed. I thank you.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Where is the supplementary question coming from when the Minister made such an elaborate explanation on the programme?
+HON. KHUPE: I would like to further elaborate on the measures in place to eradicate diseases through livestock vaccinations? Currently, many cattle are dying because of diseases. We would also like the Government to send veterinarians countrywide to treat livestock and educate farmers on diseases.
+HON. DR. MADE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and I would also
like to thank the Hon. Member for the pertinent question. May I also advise this august House that all livestock need to be vaccinated against diseases …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa, Hon.
Maziwisa and Hon. Ncube. May you be attentive please, thank you.
+HON. DR. MADE: I would like to make some correction.
Cattle may die due to tick borne diseases or dosing. It is critical that veterinarians make a proper diagnosis on the health of livestock. I agree with you that vaccination is very important. We are also encouraging that when we embark on the command livestock programme, we will encourage vaccination of livestock both in summer and winter seasons. Dipping of livestock will also be mandatory under this programme so that we curb tick borne diseases. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: My question is directed to the Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Services…
HON. ZINDI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Mine was a supplementary question as a follow up to Hon. Dr. Made’s response.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Procedurally, I cannot go backwards unfortunately. I have already recognised Hon. Mangami.
HON. ZINDI: That is why I called for a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Unfortunately, we have to follow
procedure.
HON. MANGAMI: I would like to find out from the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare if the Government has got a policy on the exportation of labour. If it has, can it be explained so that we know how to go about it.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. As things stand, there is no generalised policy on the exportation of labour but indeed on an ad-hoc basis, you will notice initiatives coming through at ministerial level where certain requirements come in. The last one that comes to mind right now is when we were looking at sending teachers to Sudan. So, those initiatives will be coming in on a ministry by ministry basis but we should come up with a framework governing conditions to do that.
Probably, that is something that can be considered.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Point of clarity Mr. Speaker!
THE HON. SPEAKER: You ask a supplementary question.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Of course, it is a supplementary question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, withdraw the statement
of-course, you are not fighting the Chair.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Well noted Mr. Chairman, I withdraw that
statement. Mr. Speaker Sir, to the attention of the Hon. Deputy Minister, I have heard with regard to the issue that the exportation of labour is as a result of abundance in terms of labour in our country. If I can get clarity from the Hon. Minister as to whether it is an issue of abundance of labour or it is an issue that our economy under the Government which is moving this economy has failed to create jobs. It has failed to meet the capacity to create jobs to meet the population visa-vis the economy. Is it an issue of abundance of labour or it is an issue of the Government failing to create jobs?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The
House will fully appreciate that if we talk of literacy levels in Africa, Zimbabwe is right there at the top highest point in echelons. Mr. Speaker Sir, if you look at countries like Israel, you will find that their biggest export is labour because of the capacitation that the Government would have given to its people. We are right there at the top echelon where we have people we can export and people who can stand their position in which ever country we would have send them to.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you will appreciate that in South Africa right now, Zimbabweans are right there at the top. In Australia, we are at the top. We should be proud of the human capacity that we are building in the country. Thanks primarily to the Government initiative which has put thrust on educating its people. Because of that, invariably you will find that we are coming up with people who are relevant worldwide. So as a country, we should actually be proud that we have people of substance, people who make a mark wherever we send them. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, the other part of the question was job creation which you did not address.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Mr. Speaker Sir, when people
are talking about job creation, it is very critical that we look at it holistically. When we are talking about job creation, it does not necessarily have to be formal sector. The informal sector is a very valid part of job creation – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Jobs invariably will be on a permanent basis and jobs invariably will be on a contract basis. So, for somebody then to limit that a job can only be a job because it is on a permanent basis, it is really myopic.
Currently, you will find that Government programmes that were put in place; something that clearly comes to mind right now is the Command Agriculture which was a huge success by any measure.
Downstream jobs have been created as a result of that. You will find Mr. Speaker Sir, that the initiative that organisations –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Chibaya, can you hold your own please. Thank you.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
Clearly, this very good answer that I am giving is incensing other people but I was adding on to say that the Command Agriculture Programme which has been a huge success by any measure, we are looking at an excess of two million tonnes of grain that has been produced. That alone has a ripple effect on job creation. The issue about jobs is that some jobs by its very nature are contract jobs. If you look at the production of tobacco, by its very nature it is contact. Some jobs will be permanent jobs; so the country - yes, has indeed created in excess of two million jobs as things stand. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. As a follow up to the response by the Hon. Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social
Welfare, I need to find out from him whether they are coordinating with the Ministry of Higher Education because that Ministry has also made pronunciations that they are creating a data base of all excess labour that is to be exported. So I need to find out whether there is that coordination so as to export that excess labour for record purposes, for logical follow up and monitoring between the two ministries. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MATANGIRA): Yes, indeed we
are coordinating with the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education. We await them publishing the results that they come up with on the excess labour that is available; but we are indeed proud of the quality of graduates that, as a country, we are producing.
HON. SITHOLE: My supplementary question to the Minister is emanating from Section 194(k) of the Constitution, which clearly states that ‘employment, training and advancement practices must be based on merit, ability, objectivity, fairness, equality of men and women and the inclusion of persons with disabilities.’ I would want to know the Government policy regarding the appointment of various persons in various boards. I am saying this on the background of what we recently read in the media which related to nepotism, whereby the daughter of the President was appointed to sit on two boards and the son of the President also appointed as senior official in the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, when we ask supplementary
questions, they must be anchored on the primary question that was asked. The primary question was exportation of labour and what you are raising now has nothing to do with exportation of labour.
HON. SHUMBA: I would like to ask the Minister what the policy is in terms of quantification and harnessing diasporeans revenue and directing it towards our GDP. Diasporeans are registered with the countries of destination and nations exchange that database. What is our policy in ensuring that the revenues – because there is a lot of remittances from diasporeans to nations and if that remains in the informal sector, it is then not harnessed to contribute towards our GDP.
HON. MATANGAIDZE: Of course exporting labour will bring
in revenue through diaspora remittances, but the detailed response to the quantum of the remittances from the diasporeans – I think the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development would be better placed to quantify that.
+HON. D. TSHUMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this
opportunity. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. My question is, what is the Ministry doing to help people who worked in the Zim-dollar era before the US$ who are no longer getting pensions, but the companies that they worked for have buildings, for example Laff House, Old Mutual, are still getting money but they are not giving the workers their pensions? What measures are you putting in place to ensure that these workers get their pensions?i9
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MATANGIRA): The Hon
Member raised a very pertinent question in that if you look at the way
the insurance firms are set up, the funds are not necessarily all held cash funds because some are invested in different portfolios. This question is emanating from the point that indeed, if the ZIM-dollar had devalued, but surely at some point-in-time the insurance firms would have made significant investments which would still have held value regardless of the devaluation of the ZIM-dollar. What then transpired in dollarization is that we assigned an exchange rate to the ZIM-dollar at that point-intime, which then prejudiced the pensioners. So, I think it is a discussion that should be taken forward so that what was then attributed to the pensioners as a result of assigning a value to the ZIM-dollar is not commensurate with the investment that the insurance companies had made. I would suggest that maybe this Parliament debates that further and run with that. So, the position is that a value was assigned to the dollar and that was what was running and there is need to probably pursue this discussion to come up with an equitable number for the benefit of the pensioners.
HON. D. TSHUMA: Let me ask in English. I want to find out
what efforts the Ministry is pursuing to regularize that so these pensioners start to get their dues, because despite the ZIM-dollar effect to the US dollar effect they need to get their dues. What is the Ministry doing to make sure that we capacitate that and have the people getting their pensions as soon as possible?
HON. MATANGIRA: I think it is important for me to highlight that the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare superintends over NSSA and the Public Service insurance policies. There are other insurance policies like the Local Government insurance policy and private insurance policies which do not fall under the purview of the Ministry. So, yes, if it is a contribution that probably should be housed together and consider that holistically in a combined effort, then that will be a point to come up with. As a Ministry, you will notice that we have made some pronouncements on NSSA, increasing the pension benefits attributed to people who fall under NSSA. So as a Ministry, indeed we are making sure that people get what is commensurate with what they put into the pension scheme.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The issue of
pensions is a very hot one and many are affected, including me. Can the Minister not come up with a Ministerial Statement that addresses all those issues and also the issue of a Commission that was once set up to investigate eroded pensions so that everything is put in the public domain, and people know exactly where we are coming from and where we are going? So, I would kindly urge the Ministry to come up with a
Ministerial Statement that is all embracing. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Yes,
we concur, with the indulgence of the House, may be in the next two or three weeks, we should be able to give the detailed response that is expected. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. As much as I would say words have been taken out of my mouth by Hon. Maridadi, but in addition to that, I just wanted to highlight to the Minister that from 2009 to 2017, the Ministry should have taken the responsibility to inform the nation in times of the erosion of the pensions of the pensioners. Why would the Minister wait until today, 7th June, 2017 in order to be urged by Hon. Backbenchers to come and make a statement on the issue of erosion of the pensions of pensioners, and yet some have since died.
How is that going to be addressed?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am
sure when I made an earlier submission, Hon. Zindi did not pick on that submission. I clearly said that the two pension schemes which fall under the auspices of our Ministry is the NSSA Pension Scheme and the Public Service Insurance Scheme. There are other insurance schemes which do not fall under the purview of our Ministry, but I have committed to go and liaise with the relevant line Ministries to give a holistic Ministerial Statement covering out the pension funds which are not under our purview. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Mr. Speaker Sir, I even went on to say that you will notice in the past few months that NSSA has even increased on the insurance benefits. The Minister is on record as saying that the current payments of $60.00 per person are too low. We have employed Actuarians at this point in time, to give us an assessment whether we can increase that to a minimum of a $100.00. So, Government is clear on wanting to increase those benefits.
That will all come in the detailed report that will be submitted, but it is important to answer Hon. Zindi’s question and it is important for her to appreciate that insurance is not just under our purview but transcends other Ministries, and in coming up with the report that we ask for time to come to come up with the report. We will need input from other Ministries so that the report comes out as a complete report to the satisfaction of the House. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Leader of Government business. Is it Government policy that when the President of ZANU PFis holding star rallies in any particular town, it shows that there is a complete shutdown whereby shops, vendor stalls and so on are all closed? Is that an accurate reflection of the policy of Government?
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGANGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I would wish to reply to the question raised by the Hon. Member relating to...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order at the back please!
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT: I wish to reply to the question raised by the Hon. Member relating to what he perceives as policy. May I assure the Hon. Member that there is no ZANU PF policy which requires shops to be closed when there is a ZANU PF rally. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: My supplementary question is whether as the
Hon. Vice President you are going to bring to order...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. GONESE: My supplementary question is whether as the
Hon. Vice President you are going to bring this to order? In today’s Press Mr. Speaker, Hon. Minister of State Mandi Chimene and the
ZANU PF Secretary for Youth are quoted as saying that on the 16th of June 2017, all roads must be leading to Sakubva Stadium and all shops are going to be closed to ensure maximum attendance. They are quoted in today’s newspaper as having said that. Are they going to be brought to order, because people are being forced to attend and if it is not Government policy, are those two going to be brought to order, because that is what they said today?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you through?
HON. GONESE: Yes, I was asking whether they are going to be brought to order because they have been quoted in today’ Press as saying that there should be a whole shutdown and all roads must be leading to Sakubva Stadium and that they must ensure maximum attendance, and that shops will be closed and vendors stalls will also be closed.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member would want to know whether it is true that all roads are leading to Mutare on a particular day - I doubt it that all roads will lead to
Mutare. Some will go to Masvingo and some roads will go to Bulawayo –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] Secondly, I would like to inform the House that it is not ZANU PF policy to force people to attend ZANU PF rallies. If anybody who has a relative who was forced, the courts are open for them to say, ‘I was forced to go to a ZANU PF rally’. We do not force people to attend our rallies. Thirdly, we have no policy - both as Government as well as ZANU PF to force people to stop their businesses because there is a rally. People must eat and work and it is our policy that people must work and earn a living. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, the last part was not answered about what will be done to the Minister of State who has stated that they ensure maximum attendance by having the shops closed. What is going to be done to that irresponsible Minister and also to the Secretary for Youth, Kudzanai Chipanga who has expressed similar sentiments?
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT: The Hon. Member is asking
what will happen in terms of disciplinary procedure to persons who breach party policy. I think when that happens, we can invite him to come and listen to what we do in our party – [Laughter.] –
HON. CHASI: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I would like to address…
Hon. Holder and Hon. Mandipaka having been speaking at the top of their voices.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Holder and Hon. Mandipaka at the back there, can you listen to the question – [AN HON. MEMBER: We cannot hear.] – yes, you are talking that is why you cannot hear.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to address my question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. My question relates to the old age practice in rural primary schools, where children are required to bring all manner of tools to school, tins, slashers, picks and so on to do what is called general work after school. This has no payment or compensation of any sort. I think it is correct to say that, that is child labour. I want to suggest that that type of work is discriminatory in terms of the Constitution.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, what is the question?
HON. CHASI: My question is, that type of work is exploitative in terms of the Constitution and Article 19(3)(a), what is Government policy on that and why is it permissible in this time and age? What is the Ministry doing in terms of prohibiting it? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member asked whether there is policy on child labour, there is no such policy in the Ministry. Thank you.
HON. CHASI: Mr. Speaker, it is factual that this is happening. In my Constituency at Kanyemba Primary School and I suggest that the Minister must not be dismissive of this fact. It is happening. I suggest that the Minister must investigate this. It is happening every day.
Children are required to carry out what is termed general work after school. I did it at that school in 1971 and I think it is highly improper that it should continue to happen at that school.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I thought that I had answered the substantive part of the Hon. Member’s sense of anxiety on these matters. However, now that the Hon. Member has insisted, may I, through you Hon. Speaker, indicate that when children are in school and not outside time for school, they are expected to carry out general cleaning work in their institutions? Thank you.
*HON. PARADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order at the back there please.
*HON. PARADZA: My question is directed to the Acting President, Hon. Mnangagwa. What is Government policy on people who are living within our borders like the Zimbabwean/Mozambican border whose livestock is being stolen and driven to Botswana? When they decide to track and find them there, they are denied permission to take them back. Instead, the livestock are gunned down and killed and the owners are incarcerated and beaten up. Thank you.
HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. What he said is true, it happened on our border with Botswana. We have a good relationship with Botswana. This incident led to talks between the Governments of Botswana and Zimbabwe. So, we have our teams from both Botswana and Zimbabwe’s Foreign and Home Affairs Departments who are investigating the issue so that we can come up with a solution. This is because we also have livestock from Botswana crossing over to Zimbabwe and if we come across them, we drive them back and yet if livestock from Zimbabwe cross over to Botswana, they have their law of shooting them down because they believe that they are infested with the foot and mouth disease. We are trying to come up with a solution to curb disunity between us. When we come up with a solution, we will be able to let you know. It is something which is under discussion.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I wish to direct my question to Hon. Sithembiso Nyoni. Hon. Minister, at one time, the Government and your Ministry mooted the idea of formalising the informal sector. Can you highlight to this august House, where you are facing challenges and hurdles to implement that policy? Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your question is addressed to who?
HON. MANDIPAKA: Hon. Sithembiso Nyoni.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you repeat your question.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I am saying to the Hon. Minister, at one time Government and your Ministry mooted the idea of formalising the informal sector. Can you highlight before this august House what challenges you are meeting in terms of policy to implement that wonderful initiative. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mandipaka, that question was
dealt with before.
+HON. D.M. NDLOVU: Thank you for this opportunity. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. May he please explain what the police are doing at roadblocks since we are paying with plastic money? They spend the whole day punishing people when they are supposed to have travelled because they should pay spot fines. The motorists will not be having any cash and the police do not even have swipe facility, yet people spend the day being detained there. People going to attend important occasions, doctors, et cetera spend the day detained there when they do not have swipe machines. I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. There is a new company which has come to change the way in which the police are operating so that they do not carry any receipt books. We now have a machine which will enable a vehicle’s number plates to be scanned. The person would state the owner of the vehicle, a slip will be printed to enable the person even though he does not have cash on him to approach the nearest police camp and pay. We will be having such machines. We are leaving old ways. We want to stop corruption which is there. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order. The owner of vehicle ADL6603 parked near Zimnat, could you please go and remove your vehicle. It is obstructing other vehicles.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would
want to ask a supplementary question to the Minister on how police work. Is there going to be a revamp of how the police work looking at what happened two weeks ago when women had a meeting in the rural areas and tear gas was thrown at them. Even livestock were affected because of the smoke. Is there anything that is going to be done on how the police work? Looking at how they throw spikes, it is like the police are not working well with the people. Is there anything that is going to be done for them to work well with the people because they do not belong to any political party but to the people?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you Hon.
Member for coming up with such a question. I will answer it in English because if I can use my vernacular, you may not understand. Mr. Speaker, that is a worry that we as the leaders of Home Affairs have to balance security versus quality service to our citizenry.
We went to Morris Depot where the police are trained and we wanted to see the material they are using. It is very up to standard and very professional – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – When the police officers are trained and deployed on the ground, some are doing other things that are not according to the police policy as a force, which they need to be disciplined on. The disciplining mechanism which is there in the police has actually seen the suspension of more than 357 police officers last year who had been doing other things that are outside their working scope. Therefore, it is also the duty of the public to understand what is expected from a policeman so that if that police officer commits something outside the working scope, he has to be reported so that we deal with the police office.
I am not privy to give information on the tear gas that was thrown at a place. I need to understand, get a full report and see where they threw that teargas and what was happening because it might be in the bush where the people from that bush were attacking the police and they were defending themselves. It can happen – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Let us find out what happened and we will come back to give a full report. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Minister, so that I help and assist you in your understanding of the circumstances and so that you do justice to the question I have asked, this was a political gathering, a meeting of unarmed women and from nowhere - political structures –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. Hon. Zwizwai,
you are not an interpreter.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It was a political meeting which was actually known, notified and everyone was aware of that meeting but we had the throwing of tear gas. My simple question is that, in the run up to elections, Hon. Speaker Sir, what kind of measures is the Ministry putting in place to make sure that we do not send signals of a country that is up in smoke and a country that is back on the path of self-conflict and instability.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. I think it is fair for the Minister, since it is a particular instance to go back and do further investigations so that he comes back and give accurate information.
HON. KHUPE: Hon. Speaker, I have a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. KHUPE: Hon. Speaker, you have asked the Minister to go and do investigations so that he brings a correct answer. However, I think it is important that when he does those investigations, he knows exactly what transpired. It was a meeting in Lupane East at a homestead and I was part of that meeting together with Hon. Muchenje and Hon, D.
Ndlovu and we were teargased by police after we had a meeting which was a political meeting of innocent citizens.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: This is why I have said he has
to go and do his investigations. If you were there, he will mention that you were there and that is the purpose of investigations.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
supplementary question is arising from the Minister’s response that our police are getting good training for them to do their work and that whatever they do out there is out of their head. Section 208 of our Constitution states that policemen are not allowed to take unlawful orders from anyone. In Zimbabwe we hear that when police arrest someone, we see political figures having their influence and order that those people be released. I do not know whether the Minister is engaging the people like the Vice President so that he will not intervene when the police are doing their work.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yesterday the Speaker of
Parliament sitting in here took trouble to talk about points of order. I am not going to entertain anymore points of order. I will only give you as the last one and no more points of order.
HON. MLISWA: My point of order is that the Hon. Member must state which Vice President because they are two.
HON. MGUNI: Firstly, I have understood his question and it might not be a policy issue. However, the Vice President is somebody who has got a very huge responsibility in this country who cannot give unlawful orders. The police are trained in a way that they cannot take any unlawful order. I thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. I realised you have removed cadetship from our tertiary institutions, meaning to say the vulnerable and the poor are now going to be denied the right to go to school. I realise you are now saying you will refer them to banks. The bank issue was refused before because you were bonding parents who have nothing for their children to go to school. My million dollar question is - what is Government policy vis-à-vis the protection of the poor than for you to bond them for the rest of their lives?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Institutions of higher learning are currently owed to the tune of $34m by Treasury and institutions are no longer coping with the resources that are required for teaching and learning. They have since reduced the number of students that they are taking on cadetship using an assessment of the requirements.
If the students that are critically not able to pay pass the criteria that they are using, they will be assisted but the loan scheme is not bonding the parents. The loan scheme is just going to assist in terms of the tuition and accommodation fees which the guardians or parents should be able to pay back if they benefit from the banks. We are looking at other funding mechanisms to try and assist students that are not able to pay.
As you are aware, the STEM initiative also is paying for the students and we are still as Government looking at ways that we can assist our people, those that are not able to pay. The nation should bear with us as Government while we are looking at modalities and ways to assist the students. We are aware of that situation and the economy is not performing well. The parents and guardians are facing difficulties in paying fees but we have to meet half way in a way. I thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Supplementary. The issue of using banks
for parents to get loans with due respect was raised once upon a time in this country. There was a huge debate over the issue and it was totally refused by Government and the populace. You are taking us back to the same debate and my question is - why then would you stop the cadetship before you have a solution to factor in the issue of the cadetship? HON. DR. GANDAWA: Like I have already indicated, the
institutions are strained in terms of getting teaching and learning equipment. The more they increase the numbers of students, they will continue to fail to operate because they still need resources to assist or teach the students. We are saying, while there are students that are not able to pay, they should be assisted if they pass the test through the criteria that is prescribed. Some parents or guardians completely cannot afford to pay but in most cases they do not have the resources at that particular moment. So those will access the loans which are there in the banks and they should be able to pay back.
I must hasten to say that with the current economic situation, it will be difficult for us to be able to say Government will be able to fund everyone. I should not stand up here and lie to you that the Government will be able to fund everyone. It is impossible. We have to meet half way. Education is a public good. The Government must assist and the parents must also assist so that we have our populace to be able to maintain our literacy rate and be able to develop our nation. It is the responsibility of all of us. The Government, the public sector, business and guardians to assist in getting our population educated. I thank you
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
POLICY ON ISSUANCE OF TRAVEL INSURANCE BY MEDICAL
INSURANCE COMPANIES
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to inform the House what Government policy is regarding the issuance of travel insurance cover by medical insurance companies when individuals travel outside the country.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): May
the Hon. Member kindly refer this question to the Minister of Health and Child Care who is responsible for medical insurance.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
GROOMING OF WOMEN ON ETIQUETTE
- HON. A. MNANGAGWA asked the Minister of Women’s
Affairs, Gender and Community Development to inform the House what plans the Ministry has in place to groom women on etiquette, requisite interview attire outfit for them to be employable.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON.
DAMASANE): Mr. Speaker Sir, there are 10 Public Service
Commission training centres namely Magamba, Senga, Esikovheni
(Mat. South), Elangeni (Bulawayo), Alvond (Masvingo) Mashonaland West, Mashonaland East, Harare and Matabeleland North has since closed down. Mr. Speaker Sir, there are courses and workshops for the public and the Ministry has always been party of the resource persons and adjudicators alike.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and
Community Development has two training centres, Rodger Howman (Masvingo) and Jamaica Inn (Mashonaland East) which offer courses on dressmaking to women and communities . These lead to women putting on decent attires and some of them depicting our African attires. We urge all parliamentarians to get in touch with the institutions in their constituencies. They have open days and graduation days where the districts come for the shows which tabulate dress codes for church, soccer matches, smart casual and dress codes for fieldwork. For example, no high heels when one is going to the farms but track shoes, tommies and sunhats with no accessories.
There are also church grooming schools and in the Ministry under the Community Development, the Ministry partners with civil society and church groups when it comes to promotion of life skills, economic and social development projects. The latter is where the Ministry partners with trusts that seek to introduce modeling, etiquette, grooming, some trusts have cascaded to district levels. For example, Miss Rural, Miss Towns, Miss Tourism, Mr. or Miss Universe, Miss Matofotofo (Big Fat Woman) and Mr. Ugly – the list is endless. These pageants are held under these trusts. The issue of dress code comes into play and the Ministry which has personnel right up to ward level are part of the organisation for the pageants. Nowadays, we do not operate as a Ministry in isolation, but we use inter-ministerial approach which also encourages the Provincial Development Committees.
There are also private partnerships in grooming and etiquette. We have got private modeling companies which are found in peri-urban areas where our provincial capital towns are found. These work hand in glove with Women in Tourism which is one of the sectors which the
Ministry works through for the promotion of etiquette and hospitality.
Hon. Members, just for information sake, our sectors are Women in Agriculture, Women in Mining and Women in Tourism. The areas under Womens Affairs in relation to the question are not exhausted by the answers given above. The Hon. Member is free to check with the training modules of the aforementioned training centres.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker Sir, as a Government Ministry, I supply Circular Number 10 of 200 from the Public Service Commission, which sets to advise all Heads of Ministries about Public Service standards of dress. It has an outline of men’s wear and women’s wear which addresses the issue of how men and women should dress for formal occasions, for uniformed staff and footwear.
This Circular states in no uncertain terms that there can be no sleeveless tops, strapped dresses or blouses, tops that have low neckline, no tight fitting trousers, no jeans, no see-through garments, no miniskirts, uncorresponding outfits on men e.g. a jean and a tie, no nike track shoes, hats and caps at irrelevant functions with of course open sandals unless it is for medical reasons.
Hon. Members are aware that in their constituencies, there are always end of year career guidance days where students who have completed their primary and secondary education are prepared to go to the next level. The Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development is part and parcel of the career guidance days varying from province to province.
The Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community
Development is stakeholders number one for the Secretary’s Day commemorations. Counting down to this day, activities are normally laid out for the girl children from high schools, politics, women secretaries in business both private and public, women administrators in hospitals, church organisations, et cetera and resource people from time to time carry out grooming lessons on dress code. Commemorations of this nature are on rotational basis from province to province.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I alluded to earlier, on part of the exercise in all aforementioned issues above, the issue of appearance and handling of oneself in the interviews, the confidence and knowledge level are part of the process. For example, tackies do not augur well with formal wear, pulling a chair when one is offered to sit, et cetera.
There is no rose which comes without thorns with all these efforts to the world we live in which now has external forces that overshadow the good work. These are:-
- Designs from other countries which cover a quarter of the body.
- Designs from online services.
- Being copy cats of other crazy designs.
- Influx of secondhand clothes.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this year’s theme for International Women’s Day addresses the type of women we expect in the near future. “Bankable, beautiful, brainy, bold, balanced, blessed and business minded”.
We therefore urge Members of Parliament to be ambassadors in each and every constituency of good etiquette, grooming and dress code that can sustain an interview leading to employment. I thank you.
POLICY REGARDING REVIEW OF FUNDS TO PENSIONERS
- HON. D. TSHUMA asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House what the Government policy is with regards to reviewing the money given the pensioners on a monthly basis in accordance with the poverty datum line.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
Speaker Sir, I thank the Hon. Member for his question. There are various methods of reviewing monthly pensions paid to pensioners on a monthly basis. These include ad hoc percentage increases where pensioners are awarded a pension increase as and when a Pension Fund has the capacity to grant such increases. The other method is indexation where monthly pensions are linked to either rate of inflation or pensionable emoluments of serving members or to the poverty datum
line.
Government policy with regards to the reviewing of pensions for Government pensioners is that they are indexed or linked to pensionable emoluments of serving members. Each time there is a review of salaries and allowances for serving members, monthly pensions are also adjusted by the same percentage awarded to civil servants.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also wish to inform the House that pension increases are done subject to actuarial evaluation. Currently, NSSA is conducting such an evaluation of its schemes with the view of increasing the monthly payout.
POLICY ON ISSUANCE OF PRIMARY DOCUMENTS TO VICTIMS
OF GUKURAHUNDI
- TSHUMA asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House what Government policy is on the issuance of primary documents to all those affected during the Gukurahundi period.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I have gone there to Tsholotsho South with officers from Social Research to assess the situation and we have made some recommendations that some of the requirements were never complied with. At the moment therefore, we are drafting a process to cater for the replacement of the lost vital civil registration. Even those that had not applied will be catered for. With the mobile registration programme, we expect to ease the ways of acquiring the primary identity documents as some people travel long distances.
ONLINE REGISTRY OFFICES FOR LUPANE AND JOTSHOLO
- M. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House why Lupane and Jotsholo Registry Offices are not online, a situation which results in clients having to apply for primary documents in Bulawayo.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): The Department is in the process of computerising Lupane
District Office. Jotsholo Registry Office is a sub office which is yet to be electrified. The offices are leased from Kusile Rural Council. The council has been approached to ensure that the offices have electricity.
This matter is still pending with the council.
ISSUANCE OF PASSPORTS TO PEOPLE IN LUPANE
- M. KHUMALO asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House when the Ministry will make provisions for people from Matabeleland North to be issued with passports in Lupane.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): The Lupane Provincial Registry is still under construction at the Government Complex in Lupane. When construction is completed and staff accommodation secured, the offices will be open to the public to apply for passports. Government has identified land for housing for civil servants in Matebeleland North Province. When the exercise is complete and staff houses constructed, our provincial staff can then relocate to Lupane.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY
POLITICAL PARTIES
HON. MANDIPAKA: Mr. Speaker I move the motion standing in my name That this House –
Aware that Zimbabwe is a peace loving nation;
DISTURBED by recent acts of violence and terror on innocent people by some political parties;
WORRIED by vicious attacks on police officers and security agents;
CONCERNED by the looting and destruction of property and
infrastructure in Greater Harare:
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon Parliament to resolve to –
- strongly condemn political parties perpetrating acts of violence on our nation;
- calls upon the Government of Zimbabwe Republic Police to arrest all those rowdy youths involved in acts of violence and to facilitate their prosecution; and
- ask the Minister of Home Affairs to make a statement on the state of affairs with regards to recent political violence and to assure the nation of its safety and security.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: I second.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, you will recall that this motion should have been debated during the peak of things. That is in August last year when things were happening when we had protests and disturbances in the country. Apparently Hon. Speaker, you will appreciate that certain quotas within this Parliament made efforts to scuttle this motion but I am quite happy and excited that at last this motion is going to be debated as it still creates relevance to the nation. It is my joy that at last we have to debate this very crucial motion. It is an innocent motion and allow me to allay fears from certain quotas that this motion intended to witch-hunt. It is not witch hunting at all but it is for the good of our country and our nation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, from the onset we need to ask ourselves what
Parliament is? According to the research that I have so far made,
Parliament is a deliberative assembly of one nation – not two nations. So as we sit in Parliament, we are one people and one nation. It is advisable that as we debate, we do so as Zimbabweans because that is our identity and the thing that puts us together as one. As Zimbabweans, we must be proud of the institutions that we create. We must believe in ourselves and the sanctity of our institutions, for example the Zimbabwe Republic Police.
This motion simply calls for co-existence in a polarised political environment. It is a motion that seeks to respect, call upon citizens and Members of Parliament to respect our own police force and entire defence forces and other security services just because the safety that we enjoy is provided for by these security services and the police force.
The motion also seeks to condemn politically motivated violence that threatens peace, security and stability in our motherland. As we all know, that instability is recipe for disaster.
I wish to commend our police force, defence forces and security agents for the professionalism, patriotism, loyalty and discipline that they have exhibited for the past 37 years in this country. We enjoy peace because of the efforts of these commanders. So, allow me at this juncture to express my profound gratitude and congratulate the following commanders for their astute leadership: - Comrade Dr. Augustine Chihuri, the Commissioner General of the Zimbabwe
Republic Police; the Commander of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces,
Constantine Ghuveya Chiwenga; Air Force Commander, Comrade
Perence Shiri; Comrade Paradzai Zimondi, Commissioner General of the Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Services and Comrade Bonyongwe, the Director of General Central Intelligence. These commanders have done us proud in this nation; we have enjoyed peace unlike other
African countries for the past 37 years because of their leadership and loyalty. We are proud of the crop of cadres that have led our security services.
Generally, Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabweans are peace loving, hard working, hospitable and revered for their civalisation and education. Peace is a sacred gift, once lost we can never re-gain it. It therefore becomes paramount for all of us of sober minds that we need to cherish and uphold peace for socio-economic development.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my heart bleeds to hear that there are certain political elements or political malcontents misguided in their operations, political parties and certain political activists that have no pride in our own police force, Defence Forces and security agencies. I feel pity and my heart bleeds. These security apparatus are ours, they are our own creation and Zimbabweans, despite our divergent political views, should be proud of these institutions.
The police force is made up of our own children, our sisters and brothers, our kith and keen and there is no reason why we should not be proud of our own kith and keen that makes up the police force. We should actually create a bond between ourselves as Zimbabwean citizens and these institutions. I am a bit disturbed, we were all disturbed and worried in August last year by acts of violence and acts of terror on innocent people in Harare by certain political malcontents, employed to subvert a constitutionally elected Government under the guise of human rights and regime change. There were vicious attacks on police officers Mr. Speaker Sir. It is also on record that the attacks were not only vicious but callous and unprovoked attacks on our police officers that were on duty, some to the extent that they were assaulted and their police uniform torn apart by these malcontents.
It is also on record Mr. Speaker Sir that a ZBC vehicle was set on fire and a police vehicle was also set on fire. There was unwarranted destruction of a police base at Market Square during these skirmishes by these political maul contents. Now, Mr. Speaker Sir, given that, I call upon Parliament to resolve to, strongly condemn any political renegates, political malcontents or any opposition political parties for that matter which are quite disturbing for the disturbances that we witnessed last year. Perpetrators of such violence should be brought to book, the ZRP has to be supported morally, spiritually and materially in their efforts to maintain law and order.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Minister of Home Affairs must, if possible, give a statement that reassures the nation that we are going to enjoy peace as we move towards elections in 2018 and that they have also dealt with these political malcontents and carried out thorough investigations. Security implies absence of threats or danger, but security of course, starts with an individual but transcends to a nation. I had disturbing pictures of police officers that were severely assaulted, police base that were set alight and police vehicles. Apparently those pictures went missing under very suspicious circumstances. I was supposed to have shared the pictures amongst Hon. Members that are here in this august House, but they just went missing under suspicious circumstances.
Allow me Mr. Speaker, to trace political developments, violence and illegal demonstration, were they came from, how they emanated and how they came into existence. Some of us are aware that the emergence of a certain political party in 1999, brought with it certain problems, and I will mention those problems that were brought. For the record, proponents of the regime change agenda continued to collude with this political party that I am talking about, and other political opposition parties, to cause disturbances and de-stabilise this peaceful country in the Southern region in Africa. Alas, their efforts are going to fail because we have got a vigilant Police Force, Defence Force and Security agencies which is of our own making.
At Banket Country Club in 1999, a political formation or movement was formed under the name MDC. This political formation was supported largely by commercial farmers. It is only then that we started to experience political violence and disturbances in this country. We sharply recall the food riots of 2000. We also recall the resistance to the land reform programme; we also sharply recall in December 2001, that some Zimbabweans in the opposition assisted in the crafting of ZIDERA. The final push was spearheaded by none other than Mr.
Morgan Richard Tsvangirai ‘Mazidhengere’ of Buhera. In 2008, we witnessed violence demonstration; leader of the opposition MDCT,
Richard Morgan ‘Mazidhengere’ of the Save totem is on record for instigating violence. There is an audio if you can still remember where we hear Mr. Tsvangirai saying…
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to raise an
objection. In terms of Parliamentary rules, we are not allowed to discuss an individual who will not be in this House to answer for themselves. The Hon. Member has mentioned the name of Morgan Richard
Tsvangirai more than four times, and making very serious allegations yet Morgan Richard Tsvangirai will not be able to respond to the allegations that he is raising.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mandipaka, refrain from
mentioning names.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Mr. Speaker, I am just trying to re-trace where violence started from. He is heard on audio saying, I will quote word for word; “what we want to tell you Mugabe today is that please go peacefully, if you do not go peacefully, we will remove you violently”. This is when we started to experience violent demonstration in this country as a result of this instigation.
HON. ZVIDZAI: Mr. Speaker you have ruled against what the Hon. Member is saying and he must simply stop. In continuing to do what he is doing, he is lying. Violence never started in 1999, there are more than 20 000 people of Zimbabwe who were killed in – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Way before 1999 by Gukurahundi. He must shut up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! I will give you an
equal opportunity to respond to what he is saying.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, some of the
demonstrations last year were carried out under the umbrella of NERA.
HON. MUKWANGARIWA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker.
The Hon Member told the other Hon Member to shut up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, I did not hear that but if
he said so, it is unparliamentary language.
HON ZVIZVAI: I withdraw but dzakutsaku there must stop talking nonsense.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon Zvizvai, you
cannot withdraw and then replace the words with more unparliamentary language.
HON. ZVIZVAI: I withdraw.
HON. MANDIPAKA: As Zimbabweans that are peace loving,
we cannot be Syria or Lybia. The independent media - you will recall very well that it went on the prowl to portray this country negatively and the results were very clear. Violent sanctions were imposed upon this country. I say they were violent because they have decimated our population in terms of what they should get socially, which could be electricity, water, labour or employment. We were slapped with these violent illegal economic sanctions. Our nation got so polarized yet we remain innocent.
Let me refer the minds of Hon. Members in this House to the Constitution. We are cognizant of the fact that our Constitution establishes the rights of citizens to protest, to demonstrate and express political views. Zimbabweans were made to live in perpetual fear because of unprecedented political attacks and physical attacks on innocent civilians. There was massive looting from ordinary people trying to eke a living. Some of the looting was carried out on informal traders and on some vendors. The wave of violence in that regard at that material time threatened national peace and we are all aware of that.
A police vehicle Reg. No ZRP 046R was set on fire. A Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation vehicle Mazda B250 Reg, No ACM 2668 was burnt to ashes. A police base at Market Square was stoned and burnt. Constable Dhowe of ZRP National Traffic was attacked viciously, sustained a swollen jaw and injuries on the ribs. Constable Madhibha Force No. 075073A of ZRP Mabvuku Traffic was also attacked whilst driving a motor bike, corner First Street and Nelson Mandela. On
August 24, 2016, at 12:00 hrs about 70 rowdy youths grouped along
Inez Terrace and stoned a green Jeep Cherokee Reg. No ACV4825 belonging to Steven Mpamba. A Mercedez Benz Reg No AAJ 2293 belonging to Leonard Nyamuwambo Zuze was stoned and damaged. Choppies Supermarket at corner Rezende and Nelson Mandela Street was looted. Kellies shop at corner Speke Avenue and Inez Terrace was looted by protesters. Choppies Supermarket along Robert Mugabe was damaged and a wooden door set on fire. I am just trying to single out certain incidences that occurred during those disturbances.
Constable Morris Takawira Force No. 085484R of Harare central was attacked at corner Robert Mugabe and Harare Street and sustained head injuries. Constable Pesanayi of Butshwa Support Unit was hit by a stone on the left ankle during demonstrations. An assortment of electrical appliances were stolen from various shops within greater Harare. So, these are the things that were happening during those demonstrations.
Let us now look at the Rule of Law. We need to respect our own laws Mr. Speaker Sir. We also need to respect the Public Order and Security Act because it is our piece of legislation. We cannot be seen to be a lawless country and the police cannot stand and watch whilst protestors and illegal demonstrators attack defenseless citizens and officers on duty. The ZRP have a constitutional duty, obligation and a moral duty to protect citizens from marauding youths.
Opposition political parties allegedly are in the forefront of fomenting political violence and hostilities through unsanctioned demonstrations. The introduction of a noble Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016, you will remember very well that a warehouse in Beit Bridge was burnt to ashes and property got lost just because of the introduction of that noble statutory instrument. A militant group going by the name Tajamuka made up of violent youths from opposition parties has been I the forefront of fomenting violence and calling on other youths to engage in violent behavior. They were targeting institutions like the police force. The social media also has been used to propagate hate speech against this regime and all these things are happening under the guise of democracy and rights.
In conclusion, I am sure that men of sound judgement, sober habits and mind who are patriotic Zimbabweans will agree with me and testify that we have one of the best police forces in the region, if not in Africa and beyond. Over the years, our police force has exhibited great potential and professionalism as they carry out peace keeping and peace building missions in various war torn countries. The United Nations could not have employed the services of ZRP if it was not a professional police force. So, they have done these duties competently in countries like Angola, Sierra Leone, South Sudan, Guinea Conakry, Liberia, Kosovo, East Timor and Burkina Faso. Our police officers have been in these countries to protect innocent lives.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Section 86 of the Constitution says fundamental rights and freedoms must be exercised reasonably and with due regard to the rights and freedoms of others. As people demonstrate, it does not follow that the majority would want to see demonstrations, see looting or that the majority share political persuasions and views of those that will be demonstrating. So, as they exercise that, they should take due regard for the rights of others.
Section 206 (1) of the Constitution talks about national security. It says “ the national security objectives of Zimbabwe must reflect the resolve of Zimbabweans to live as equals in liberty, peace and harmony, free from fear and in prosperity” but if we go to Section 219 (1) (b) it is clear on the functions of the police. It says “there is a police force or police service which is responsible for preserving the internal security of
Zimbabwe.” So, when police officers are deployed in streets with baton sticks or fire arms to protect other innocent citizens we should not cry foul.
Police also have a duty to protect and secure the lives and property of the people. If a police vehicle or ZBC vehicle are being burnt, they have a right to move in and make sure that they quench such disturbances. They also have a right to maintain law and order and this entails that the police cannot be bystanders when property is being burnt to ashes by protestors. This august House should stand up and resolve to condemn acts of violence. It should also condemn protests that have been targeted on innocent civilians and political malcontents that are misguided in their political persuasions to cause disturbilisation in this peaceful country. We encourage the Commissioner General of the police to work thoroughly and get these political malcontents and bring them to book.
If necessary, the Minister of Finance should allocate financial resources that are adequate for the cause of our police force, a police force that the majority of Zimbabweans are proud of except a few that have been spoilt by western beliefs. Mr. Speaker Sir, opposition parties have themselves to blame if they do not win elections because the majority of Zimbabweans would like to live in peace and that peace has ably demonstrated that peace has been with us for 37 years because of ZANU PF Government. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir
for giving me the opportunity to make a contribution to this motion. I would also like to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Mandipaka for giving the broad picture of the motion and what has caused it to be debated in this Parliament. I would like to take note of the fact that some of the things are overtaken by events. When this motion was mooted, the situation in the country was not so good, but I am happy that Zimbabweans are finding reason in that they do not need to fight authority because we are a democratic country.
In a democracy Mr. Speaker Sir, elections are held periodically and in our case, every five years, people of the land are given the opportunity to elect leaders of their own choice and institutions that are born of the Constitution are supervised by those leaders. So basically, I find no reason why people should be demonstrating to say they want a change of Government when the time has not come because in a democracy, you are given the latitude to do so. When you do so, you need to do it properly so that we promote our democracy.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to make reference to what Hon. Mandipaka has said and most of the things I will be talking from experience.
Zimbabweans are peace loving people and they do not want to be antagonised. Within our system, community or society, we do have what we regard as malcontents or deviance, people who would like to see discord in society so that development is negated. I do not want to go further to what Hon. Mandipaka said because those things are already on record but I would like to say in Zimbabwe, we have got a police service that is law abiding.
Our police service is born of the Constitution and the obligations that they carry are a mammoth task of protecting life and property and maintaining law, and who in Zimbabwe does not want law and order? Even when we go to banks, we see people organising themselves without any police officer nearby because Zimbabweans are peace loving people. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to say the good part of it is that in Zimbabwe, the philosophical policing principle is that consent. People in Zimbabwe are policed by consent and this is a historical heritage that we received from our traditional background and also from the revolution. This is because some of the people who are now in the police service were ex-combatants or liberation fighters.
So, they realised that the police cannot operate in a vaccum. Police officers have to work in tandem with society. This is why there is very limited antagonism between the police and the public. I would also like to take note of the fact that the police is a reflection of society itself. If society is violent, the police in a bid to maintain law and order can also try to match what is happening. If society is peaceful, the police can also be peaceful. If the society is corrupt, police officers are also corrupt. What I am saying Mr. Speaker Sir is that in Zimbabwe, policing is done effectively as it is at the present moment because there is trust between the police and the public.
The generality of our people are peace loving and they are never involved in criminal activities. The generality of our people are peace loving and they are never involved in violent demonstrations. It is so because if you notice our police officers in comparison with police services of other nations, you will realise that our police service is the least armed in the world, next to the British Bobby. When police officers are moving around, they do not have weapons or anything. They are at the mercy of members of the public and it is the public that protect them.
This is what we expect in a democracy such as ours. We expect the police and members of the public to work together. Even with political parties, desperation should not be targeted at the police. People who lose elections should know that their chance will come, like what is going to happen. 2018 is coming and people should be doing their homework so that they win the minds of the people. If people do not achieve that, then violence is not an option. We have been operating under very difficult circumstances over the years.
I would like to tell you Hon. Speaker Sir, that we are moving towards a common cause that violence negates development and what we need to do is to ensure that when we lose elections, we have to go back to our offices and try to come up with new strategies that will make us win next time. At the present moment, there is a Government in office and that Government should be protected by law enforcing agents including the police.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have often wondered why police officers sometimes try – they also become defensive in situations. Police work itself is in the majority of cases, reactive because police officers do not know what people think. They do not know what people are going to do next time, especially when people are moving in groups and being driven by certain emotions. At such a point, the police should be in a position to ward off anything that is designed to disrupt public order and law and order. This is why we have the Public Order and Security Act [Chapter 11:17]. We would like to see cohesion between the police and the public.
Sometimes I hear legal gurus saying there is no need to inform the police about a demonstration or whatever or procession. It is very absurd because what happens is that; there is a problem or disease called mob psychology. When people are moving as a group – even if you put Hon. Members in a bus, observe how they behave in that bus, it is mob psychology. When things are happening in such a way, that emotions are being heated up, you will see that people will end up destroying property, attacking and injuring people and so on.
We are saying, there should be a common understanding. Those who want to demonstrate or go into processions should discuss with the police and say, this is how we are going to be doing it so that the police will make safeguards. The police will be able to know what to do in the event of this or that happening. This is exactly what our law provides for. I am saying this because I have realised that in certain situations, even other political parties, they are also going to the police station to report what they want to do. I have not seen any discord because the police is for everyone, it is a national police service.
However, if people just demonstrate on their own and the police come, they are also driven by emotions. For example, the issue that was being talked about in Lupane, it happened elsewhere. The police themselves are human beings, they want their lives because they may also be killed – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI – MUSHONGA: Nevakadzi
ivavo?] – Yes. As a result, they should be in a position to protect themselves first so that they are in a position to protect others – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So, the fact that our police officers are not armed, it is based on the fact that they have got trust on members of the public. Once a police is in trouble, we see members of the public intervening trying to find out what the problem is.
In other countries – if you watch Al Jazeera, you can see what is happening in other countries and their jurisdictions. You can go and watch it today, it cannot go through without an event where police officers are throwing teargas on a daily basis. They are firing guns, tear smoke and so on. This is not the situation that is obtaining in Zimbabwe. Mr. Speaker Sir, as a way forward, people should not live on the figment of their imagination.
The ‘Tajamukas #, This flag’ and other forms of violence that sometimes happens is not characteristic of our country as Zimbabweans. They should know the background of the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP) as well as the background of our security services, they are not made of weak steel. We should uphold the law as Zimbabweans
because the Constitution obligates us to do so – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We should provide constructive criticism in situations where we see that the police is on the wrong side and the police should listen to what the members of the public are saying – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Right now, we have this thing that we might not discuss much because it is pending at the courts, the spikes.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Wind up
your debate, you are left with five minutes.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Yes I am winding up Mr. Speaker Sir. At one stage, I was driving to Rusape and I saw a female police officer wielding a spike and there were three commuter omnibuses following one after the other, they were driven through the roadblock and all the police officers ran away. Look at the dangers the police officers are exposed to. There is a reason why the police officers are also worried. Mothers and fathers are worried that they are likely to leave their families unattended in the event of them being killed or injured. So, all of us should find reason and work together towards building our nation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to conclude by saying, Zimbabweans are hard working, give them space to do what they know better, working hard and building a prosperous nation. I thank you.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 to 52 be stood over until Order Number 53 and the rest of the Orders have been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 1) BILL
[H.B. 1, 2017]
Fifty Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No.1) Bill, [H.B.1, 2017].
Question again proposed.
HON. MAJOME: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for affording me
an opportunity to debate this sadly historical Bill that is before the House, that is a Bill that seeks to amend an infant Constitution that is even yet to find its own feet. Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to express my disappointment as a citizen of this country and my fears about the path that we are starting to embark upon, that is amending a Constitution that was so resoundingly adopted by the people of Zimbabwe in a very historical process.
Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me to just remind members of the august House about the very proud and historical process that was conducted in making this same Constitution that we are already deliberating about amending. As a Zimbabwean, I stand proud to say that as a citizen of a country and of a jurisdiction that made world history by becoming a country that crafts and adopts a Constitution in the most wide reaching, consultative and participatory process ever.
There has not been any country in the world that has done like we did, that is to conduct 4400 public meetings to consult the public about what they wanted to be in the Constitution. As a proportion of the population, we had about no more than 10% of Zimbabweans participating in hearings and finally for the referendum, there is no referendum to adopt a Constitution that recorded as high majority as 93% - 94% that Zimbabwe recorded in adopting this very same
Constitution. So, it is from that context Mr. Speaker Sir, that I rise to debate in opposition to this amendment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me to debate in my opposition to this amendment in a manner that is based on three premises. Firstly, I object to this Bill from a point of process. Secondly, I will object it from a point of principle and lastly, I will object to this amendment from a point of the content of the Bill itself.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of the process of this Bill, I can do no better than to refer the august House to the very provisions of Section 328(4) of the Constitution. In that provision Mr. Speaker Sir, it provided the very unique process of amending the Constitution that is different from all other Bills.
If you will allow me to belabour the House because it is important to say that it is required that when a Constitutional Bill has been tabled, different from any other Bills, Section 328(4) provides that
“immediately after the Speaker has given notice of a Constitutional Bill in terms of (3), Parliament must invite members of the public to express their views on the proposed Bill in public meetings and through written submissions, and must convene meetings and provide facilities to enable the public to do so.”
Mr. Speaker Sir, as a member of the portfolio committee that was tasked by the Hon. Speaker to conduct these public hearings and to receive submissions, I stand here to express my utmost disappointment and regret that I was not allowed and enabled to see a single written submission that was submitted by the members of the public. Those written submissions that are specifically mentioned by the Constitution, I would want to assume that they were submitted because there were members of the public and organisations that were saying that they did that. However, none of those submissions was ever brought to the attention of members of the committee. Requests were made in meetings to say, can we see these submissions because they are specifically mentioned in terms of the Constitution but they are in some dark void somewhere.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is extremely sad that we can take constitutional provisions so lightly and seek to want to proceed with a Bill where members of the public have taken the trouble to write submissions in terms of the Constitution and submit them but those submissions are done short shift of; they have not been seen.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I have a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. What is your
point of order?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I think it is very unfair for the Hon. Member to discuss deliberations that happened in the Committee and express sentiments that are not very correct, to say things that happened in a Committee and processes that happened whereby she was even allowed to say that if you want to view the submissions, they are open for you to see everything that happen. For her to come here and start mentioning things that happened in the Committee, I feel it is unfair for the rest of the members of the Committee – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – What she is trying to do now is trying to bring in
Committee deliberations into her debate, which I feel is very unfair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, you were part
of the Committee and consensus if reached within the Committee, there is no way one would isolate himself or herself out of the consensus that has been reached. So, debate on what you think or raise your own opinion rather than the Committee’s opinion.
HON. MAJOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, from a point of privilege, I did request in the Committee to see the submissions and that request was never done. I am saying this because as a Member of Parliament, I have no other forum in which to raise this complaint. I raised it in the Committee repeatedly and I never got the submissions. I thought if I do not raise it in this House, I cannot go to court...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you just take your seat
please so that I consult. Hon. Majome, can you please approach the Chair?
Hon. Majome approached the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Majome, you may
proceed.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will proceed on
the issue of processes and the second issue I will say is that the public in the public hearings that we went to, roundly and soundly rejected and condemned this proposed amendment. The predominant members of the public on the sentiments that they said, I remember specifically that the only places that there was some support of the Bill was in Gwanda and Hwange in particular if I recall. We went all over the country to the major cities and the overwhelming and thunderous response was that we do not want to amend the Constitution now and we do not want to amend it for this reason. That is the process because as Members of Parliament, we are representatives of the people of Zimbabwe. We are reminded by our Constitution, none other than Section 3 (2) (f) – that is our founding values and principles. We are reminded at the very beginning of the Constitution that the principles of good governance which bind us including Parliament are; “respect for the people of
Zimbabwe from whom the authority to govern is derived”.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is those people that we went to hear from and in my experience from a process point of view, we were sent out there so that we hear what they have to say. As I said, predominantly it was rejection but for those that were expressing support of the Bill that I saw in Gwanda and Hwange, from what I understood as a lawyer myself and as a constitutional lawyer in particular is that while they were expressing support for the Bill, they actually appeared to also contradict themselves. What they wanted was a system of appointment of judges that allows the independence of the judiciary and transparency. In their defending it, they would say issues that would counter the support of the Bill and that is why and with respect, I defer to your view that I should not refer to the record of hearings which was not even made available but that is what the public were saying. For history, posterity will record and I am glad that our Parliament records verbatim by Hansard Reporters, by tapes and so on. For the sake of history, I believe that those who would want to see the history of this sad amendment, they would actually get the verbatim tapes of what the public was saying and I am certain that it vindicates what I am saying here.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in Hwange with respect, there was even some very absurd proposals that, yes of course we must amend the Constitution to make the President appoint all the three top judges because a chief will appoint their ministers and in Shona it was like machinda avo yet the principles of the construction of the judicial arena is different from the way that traditional leadership is practiced. One even went further to say that they support it because from above, there are certain offices at the lower levels like judges and Ministers but like in religion there is God above. I do not believe that we can equate His Excellency to God and matters ecclesiastically are very different from these matters of governments that are here on earth. That was some of the support that was being expressed for the Bill. Mr. Speaker Sir, that would not accord with the system of governance that we practice in modern democratic system of governance.
I will now turn to my objection on the basis of principle. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I say this because coming from a minority party in this Parliament, I want to appeal to my colleagues across the benches and across the political divide that from a principle point of view, the ruling party does enjoy an overwhelming and exceeding majority. They would have the power to change the Constitution if they want to but my appeal to them is from a point of principle Mr. Speaker Sir, that I would urge them to do what is right to the people of Zimbabwe. It is not disputed that they have the numbers but from the principle point of view, I urge them to think and put the people of Zimbabwe first. We can tinker with a Constitution but let us remember that the people of Zimbabwe indeed supported this by an overwhelming majority.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am compelled to respond to one of my fellow Hon. Members here who was yesterday spewing forth unbelievable contempt for this Constitution and belittling it as merely a compromised document. I want to believe that saying that is nothing short of disdain. It is nothing but scandalous and as Members of Parliament, we represent the people. I am from the Movement for Democratic Change and when I am in this Parliament and when I am in my constituency, I do not represent the people of the MDC only, but I represent the people of ZANU PF, the people of NDA, NDU and the majority of Zimbabweans who are not in fact members of any political party. I hasten to add that the majority of those people who are not members of any political party are a population that is not yet old enough.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is not a secret that the majority of our population is made up of young people who are below the ages of 16 and 18 and those people are not capable of voting and of being members of any political party. I would want to remind my hon. colleague who indicated that it was just a compromise perk between ZANU PF and MDC. This Constitution transcends political parties and it is about people who are not MDC and who are not ZANU PF but the lives it touches are of those who are not us politicians. I want to plead from a point of principle that simply because the ruling party enjoys the majority, it must not trample the aspirations and the interests of the people.
Mr. Speaker Sir, history will judge us harshly and my appeal is from a point of principle, that we need to observe the rule of law and the separation of powers that this amendment proposes to trample over. I do not subscribe to the view at all that an amendment that would concentrate back power into appointing the top three judges and indeed the head of one of the arms of Government in the leader of one of the arms, His Excellency the President would not undermine the rule of law and judicial independence. Mr. Speaker Sir, that is the furthest from the truth and I will have to refer to the classical scholars of constitutional law, matters of the rule of law and judicial independence because I think that is what will help us assess this amendment. This amendment will indeed just detonate and trample over judicial independence. A. B. Dicey, one of the leading scholars of constitutional law is the leading influence on defining what the rule of law is which would be undermined by this amendment. According to him, he identified that the rule of law has three main principles and I will stick to two. The first one is that absolute supremacy of the law as opposed to the influence of arbitrary power is the key tenet of the rule of law. Concentrating power into appointing the Chief Justice, the deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President in His Excellency, the President, is indeed promoting the use of arbitrary power and giving him or whoever holds that office the power to decide whatever they want is against the rule of law.
Secondly, equality before the law is that no person is above the law. Mr. Speaker Sir, the process we have in the Constitution now does recognise that. It allows His Excellency, the President to participate in the question of choosing the top three judges. His Excellency, the President, not only is he also allowed to nominate a candidate, apart from being at the end of the day, the one who selects from the panel of candidates selected by the Judicial Service Commission, it allows the public of Zimbabwe and the office of His Excellency to participate in the selection process. It is a feature that promotes equality before the law.
Mr. Speaker, our previous Constitution used to hold in Section 27 that, “the President takes precedence over all persons”. That is no longer the case. The people of Zimbabwe voted against that. Now to try to bring back by concentrating back and doing a u-turn is clearly not what the people said and what they wanted and it is not good for the land. Mr. Speaker Sir, I will also...
[Time limit].
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move that the
Member’s time be extended.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: I second.
Motion put and objected.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would want to add my voice on the Amendment Bill No. 1 H. B. 1, 2017 of the Constitution of the motherland. Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to preface by saying, a nation is judged by the way it upholds its own Constitution. There was a clause in the Lancaster House Constitution that said, for ten years we would not tinker with the Constitution. In 1990 Mr. Speaker Sir, there was a commission that was led by the late Chief Justice Chidyausiku in terms of amending the Constitution after the ten-year period. In the present Constitution, there is no clause that limits the time that is needed for amendment of a Constitution if there comes a need.
Aware Mr. Speaker Sir, that there are sections of the Constitution and Chapters that would require a referendum and those that would not require a referendum. Those that would just require a simple majority of Parliament to speak to and about the amendments that is so required. These key issues Mr. Speaker Sir, I thought I should bring to bear and to the fore, so that in that context, one can then debate. I have not gone into the crux of the matter, so the opposition should not immediately try to pre-empt. I have not yet gone into the crux of the debate. What one needs to know is there is no Government that comes into power, that takes anything to chance or that is required to take into account or to honour the wishes of the past Government.
I will give you an example, the refusal by the British Labour Government to honour the Lancaster House agreement obligations that spoke to and about the compensation of landowners, so that the formally marginalised black majority would have their land, premised on the agreements that were in the Lancaster House Constitution. I will give you exactly what the Government of Tony Blair did to the other Government that went before it. Clare Short and Tony Blair completely annihilated, rubbished and shredded the agreements, not once, not twice but numerous times that had been made in the Commonwealth regarding the land and compensation of the erstwhile colonisers, the minority settlers, the British in terms of land acquisition.
Mr. Speaker Sir, based on that, I would go on and say, there is a debate that I heard here that said, the Head of State surely could not be given the sole mandate of appointing the three top judges. That is a fallacy, if the debater takes it in that context. Mr. Speaker, it might be showing that whoever is saying or churning these words might not have the ambition to be head of State one day, or does not even see themselves being head of state one day. The debate should not be premised on that. We have many issues that are embedded in the Constitution that were included at the time because a nation is judged by the way it upholds the Constitution. We should be very careful to continue to be haunted by what is in the Constitution without amending it because we are judged by the way we uphold the Constitution.
One such issue that I want to speak to and about is the issue of Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, she is always talking to and about the issue of devolution of power and the issue of councils. Why not amend the Constitution if we cannot finance that ability. Why should we come here and be hamstrung, wax lyrical and think that everything is okay. Currently Mr. Speaker Sir, what we do not have is resources to take care of some issues that are in the Constitution. The issue is not only about alignment of the Constitution. As much as we would want to amend and adhere to the Constitution, it is very clear that there are no guidelines and there is no timeline Mr. Speaker Sir on constitutions of other jurisdictions as to when and how sections of the constitutions need to be aligned with the Acts of this jurisdiction. I say so because the Kenyan Constitution has real timelines to say by this time we have to have amended and aligned these laws. So, with us Mr. Speaker Sir, as much as we are moving with exceptional speed - effectively and efficiently, we need in terms of alignment of the Constitution, it needs to be noted that it is on our own volition. We are not bound by what is in the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have spoken about Tony Blair and Clare Short having rubbished what went before them in terms of agreements. Now, came Donald Trump. He has appointed the Chief Justice – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – and the people that are debating here today would cry wolf if that is done by Zimbabwe. They have not even heard what my opinion is about the amendment of this Constitution and they need to wait for that time.
Let us have a scenario where we create a Constitution that we are going to be judged by. In terms of politics, if you cannot beat them, you need to join them. In politics the majority Mr. Speaker Sir, have their way, simple - including the minority if they have their voice. That does not – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – yes, we have democracy but these are the first tenets. Mr. Speaker Sir, nyika ino hayaitongeka. Ikanzi haivhiyiwi, haivhiyiwi uyu odhonzera uko, kana kuti roita sejuzi raTizirai rekuti uyu woruka uyu warudunura – [Laughter.] – regai titonge.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let there be a defined ruler ship. Here are the tenets of democracy. If there is a majority say, let that majority say be upheld. We are all creatures of this Constitution and we need to uphold it. By the way, I have come here as a representative of the majority. I have come here as a legislator to make laws for the good governance and order of the people of Zimbabwe whose majority is ZANU PF – [ZANU PF MEMBERS: Yes!] - I want to make sure that there is no doubt left here Mr. Speaker Sir.
We are not a hung Parliament. You can say all that you want to say but at the end of it all, we need to have a conclusion. We need to put a conclusion to this and a conclusion that I so desire. Now, here is what you have been waiting for, is that there be a majority say and sway in this debate. Mr. Speaker, I am going to be judged by that. I am one in this Parliament a Member of Parliament amongst the 210 who represents Chegutu West, and I will say what Chegutu West says and speaks to and wants to have in this Constitution. They want it amended – [HON.
MEMBERS: Yes!] –. Hakuna zuva rinobuda rimwe risati ranyura.
There is only one MP in Chegutu West and he is here today.
So, if those people of 50 000 in number want to have their say, they will come through me, no matter how much the minority says in Chegutu - it counts to nothing for the next five years. Ndozvatiri uku and by the way, I am not here by mistake; I am here by a majority after annihilation and turning around the matrix of the rulership in Chegutu West where they had 9 000 votes against 3 000. They went from 9 000 to 6 000 and I went from 3 000 to 12 000.
As I wind up, I want to say the issue of the amendment of this section of the Constitution does not need a referendum but a simple majority in the House. It says two thirds by the way; and we in the ruling party, having gotten the majority in terms of votes, Mr Speaker Sir, we will not be swayed by the line of thinking of the minority. We will be swayed by the majority of our voters, the electorate Mr. Speaker Sir who include churches. I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Let me start by
thanking the Vice President for sitting in until this late and allowing us to go through this debate because under normal circumstances he probably would have left. So, we do appreciate that he is sitting in here to listen to some of the things that we have to say. Having said that Mr.
Speaker, I struggled a lot around this debate because part of me felt that perhaps, like Jesus Christ, let this cup pass. Later on, I then said I will probably not live with my conscience if I do not say what I have to say for a number of reasons. I am not a prophetess but I am hoping that today when the Hansard is done, he will keep it because God willing and if both he and I are alive, we will have this conversation one day. These are the reasons why I want to raise this – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – No, I have to do that, it is okay.
Mr. Speaker, I am sad for a number of reasons. This is why initially I had said it is probably too emotional for me to even go into this debate, but I am going to go into it. The first reason why I am sad is because it is premised on what Hon. Gonese raised yesterday, that it is premised on a very wrong notion that this was a compromise position. Unfortunately, Hon. Goche is not here because he was one of the nine who were in the Management Committee and who had to deal with the political issues that made certain differences.
I am not sure whether the briefing that was given on what the differences were was the right briefing, because we never had any problems with this particular provision. If you want to look at the things that we had problems with during the negotiations, you will find them in the transitional provisions - because then, we had to reach some form of compromise. So, if this had come on the basis of those things that were coming from those transitional provisions, I would have no problem accepting that was the issue. Whoever is peddling that is not telling the truth. It was never an issue of debate, difference and we never had any argument around it. It is important just on that basis to be honest that this is what happened. I am quite sad because during those negotiations, we created relationships about protecting each other and about being honest about things that happened. It would be unfair to destroy, not the issue here, but those relationships that were built then. I thought I needed to raise that.
The second reason why I am sad is because unlike others who spoke yesterday and wanted to create the perception that perhaps this is coming because the Vice President knows that he will be the appointing authority, I actually do not believe that. In fact, if I believed that he would be an appointing authority, I will be one of those people who will be very supportive because the chances that I will be Chief Justice one day would be pretty high. It is because of that fact that I said he needs to keep this Hansard.
If what we were being given here was merely something that was saying - I am concerned about the framework on appointment. However, I am now giving you a new framework that creates some safeguard that does not create this one power that is in one individual. I would be very willing to debate and discuss a new framework. My concern is that there is not even a safeguard and here is the danger. This is why I said the danger about himself, not about me and the nation. I am secondary. The danger is that – and that is the sad thing about the debate in this House, when we say the President appoints, we continue to be focused on the fact that that President is going to be Robert Gabriel Mugabe. It cannot be. He will leave power at some stage. In fact, this Constitution provides that he cannot run a second term. So you are not going to have President Mugabe.
Here is the danger. He will have a complete lunatic. This is why I am saying if he was the one who was coming, I would probably be a bit comfortable because I would know I can go and talk to him and negotiate but you can literally have a lunatic. When you have a lunatic of a President – Mr. Speaker, trust me, in the last few months, there is a State that will remain unnamed. They thought they were very progressive, organised and having clear democratic institutions until they voted a mad person into power. Every day of their lives, they wake up and are in shock that this has happened to them. The danger is that you can actually have that happen here.
Politics is a very funny and dangerous game. It is unfortunate that Hon. Goche is not here today. When we were negotiating, the person we feared more than anything else was Hon. Goche. We spent nights negotiating around how we would deal with Hon Goche because he was straight – I am ZANU PF, I have the ear of the President and it is not going to happen. Wind down 2015, where was Hon. Goche? The same person who had the ear of the President was being accused of going to
Israel to look for people that were going to kill President Mugabe.
Where is he sitting today? Backbencher!
Let me talk about Tomana. Where was Tomana? Tomana was the Attorney-General of this country. He was the chief adviser of
Government. Where did he go? He sat at the boot of a car driven around Mbare Msika as a criminal. He is sitting at home right now, one of the major legal minds. The reason why I am saying so….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I might as well let you give
examples but let us stick to the debate and make sure that we move forward.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I will continue but
remember I said I am sad for a number of reasons. I am talking directly to the Hon. Vice President. I am talking to him about…
HON. ZIYAMBI: We are discussing on the Chief Justice and the
Hon. Member is discussing somebody who is not in the House to answer to what she is saying. I think it is very unfair to discuss on Hon. Goche and Mr. Tomana who are not here. She should give examples that relate to the office of the Chief Justice and not to speak about individuals who were not even in the office of the Chief Justice. I think it is very unfair on those particular individuals.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I accept that because I
know the strategy is to take my time. I am talking to the mover of this particular Bill. I am merely saying let us look at the danger of concentrating power in one individuals because he may genuinely be pushing for this because he believes that there is genuine position of changing. I am saying let him think about the possibility of having something that there is no safeguard. This is why I am saying you can have somebody who you are sitting with here today and the unfortunate thing is that those that will sit around and will be saying these things and pretending that they are supporting are the same ones who out there say different things altogether.
When some of us speak, we speak on the basis that we know that most of them are not genuine in protecting that particular individual and will not tell the truth about what is happening. All I am saying is that when we go to the amendments, we will go back to the issues that are saying we understand where you are coming from. I do not want to create aspersions around why he is saying it. I want to take him at face value, I want to believe that what he is saying here he wants to genuinely change it because there is principle reason to do so. I am pushing a point which says let us do it but let us find a safeguard, whether that safeguard is to bring in that appointment to Parliament for approval. In fact, I agree with the Chair when he made the presentation, he said you cannot say there is one size that fits all. You cannot argue that this is the best way of choosing a Chief Justice.
In South Africa, some of you could have seen the interviews that were going on when Malema was interviewing this person. I sat there and my tummy churned up. I felt that this is totally wrong but that is their system. I cannot sit here and say let us use the South African system. What I know in looking at all the other jurisdictions is that it does not matter whether the President is the appointing authority or has a safeguard because the only person you can put faith in is God and not a person, it is not possible because a person will change and behave in a different manner today. We have seen people change, we have seen people who have been praising somebody today standing up and castigating that particular individual. I do not want that to happen to the Vice President, to me and to this nation. I do not want to be sitting in here and be part of those who will bring a monster into power. Some of you may not believe that the current one is a monster – that is your opinion but I also do not want to create a monster tomorrow. That person may not necessarily be a person who is coming from ZANU PF. Always imagine that person could actually be coming from these other benches tomorrow and may not necessarily believe in the principles of democracy. So why do you want to play fejafeja with something that is so important, fejafeja with people’s lives including my own life? This is why I will stand up and say let us find - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Mr. Speaker, as we go into this particular debate, like I said before. There are countries that believed that things were fine who woke up and things were not necessarily fine.
The last point that I want to bring up is one of the reasons that have messed up this debate. I was actually going to start with that. Being a student of law myself, I would have been very excited to come here and have an intellectual conversation like Hon. Majome was saying. Beginning to understand that there was somebody called Dicey, why did he say those things about Separation of Power? Does that explain anything in this context? We are unable to do it because it has become so messy this whole process. Why has it become messy Mr. Speaker? Let us be honest, it has become messy because even the Cabinet itself is divided on this issue. For the first time, we have a Bil - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Yes, we have a Bill that is coming in. Hon. Zhuwao was on television saying that I do not believe in it - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I am not saying it.
No, he said it to the press - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
- He said it publicly.
So if there is division in your own Cabinet around this issue why do you want us to agree to it when there is division in it? Come to this
House united and say this is the reason why we are going to bring it.
You cannot run away from it. This is why I said … - [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - Ndisekuru vangu so I am going to tell him what you tell me outside. The things that you say to me imimi vacho makagara ipapo, you are the people who say those things - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - We need to talk about it now so that we can deal with the issues that are there.
When we go into the amendments Mr. Speaker, I will bring the specific amendment around what we need to do to create the safeguard but the issue that I continue to underline and will underline over and over again is that. Hon. Vice President, keep this Hansard. I hope I do not have to bring food for you kuChikurubi when these same people who are clapping for you use this very same amendment to put you into Chikurubi because they will have brought a person of their own. You will have a Chief Justice who is your wife, you will have a Deputy Chief Justice who is your brother-in-law, you can have a judge President who is your son-in-law and have anything that you want and have a family that runs the entire judiciary - that is how bad this provision is. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, thank you very much for having given me this opportunity to debate on this amendment. It gives me great pleasure to be able to debate this when the Acting President is in the House. It is not many a time where the Acting President is present when you debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I also hope like Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga said, that I hope he keeps the Hansard. I hope he also keeps the Hansard to also remember that I debated when he was Acting President.
Mr. Speaker, Section 89 of the Constitution is very clear and I believe in constitutionalism. It talks about the President and that the President is the Head of State and Government and Commander-in-chief of the Defence Forces. What is the State? We talk about the three pillars of the State: - the Judiciary, Legislature and the Executive. These are the three pillars of the State and the President will be the head of the State. So how can you then have the head of the house that does not have control or a say in who – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I am debating. Who absolutely has no say.
The people, through the ballot would have spoken just like we are here as Members of Parliament, the people would have spoken through the ballot. Just like the people of Mabvuku spoke for Hon. Maridadi, he is the Member of Parliament there. So to me, we cannot have different strokes for different folks, as Members of Parliament, we must be consistent – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.] – We must understand that the will of the people must be respected, whether it is a monster the people have elected, so be it, that is the will of the people - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
We cannot decide for the people, so let us not contradict ourselves by - [HON. GONESE: Inaudible interjections.] - Members of Parliament, especially I must say that on my right probably boast of the best legal brains. There was Tendai Biti, Welshman Ncube, Mwonzora was there – these are some of the best legal brains. They had an opportunity to deal with this at the time… - [HON. MEMBERS: We
did!] – In dealing with this at the time, they also knew that the people would elect a President and as long as the President is following the Constitution, there is absolutely no debate. The debate is, is he following the Constitution or not? – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – We are here to uphold this Constitution.
I will go to Section 116 of the Constitution, which talks about the Legislature, which means it is us – for the avoidance of doubt. The legislature is very clear that if you go to Section 119 they talk about the
‘Role of Parliament’. By the way, there is nothing wrong with ZANU
PF in case you thought there was something wrong with it. “The Role of Parliament - (1) Parliament must protect this Constitution and promote democratic governance Zimbabwe. Democratic governance; this is what is being exercised, democratic governance, if democratic governance is not being exercised, you have the right to go to the Constitutional Court. These are some of the avenues which they can also pursue if they are not happy with the democratic governance that is being exercised. You cannot! We have Donald Trump – one thing I respect America for is that the Head of State enjoys power. The Gulf War was started when
George Bush Senior was playing golf and he instructed a war to happen. He did not have to talk to anybody; he did not have a caucus with anybody. He was playing golf. With the powers entrusted in him by the people, he made a decision while playing golf to attack Iraq, whether right or not but the decision was made.
We are looking for a Head of State who shall make decisions and is accountable to them. As Members of Parliament, we hold him accountable; he cannot escape. To me, the issue at hand is about constitutionalism. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this amendment.
This amendment is in line with the global village which we are part of. We are always lagging behind and when we want to be part of it, we then doubt. Unless, the opposition whom I thought would have gained confidence with the coalition which is there, would actually be supporting this Bill because the coalition is led by the leader of the biggest opposition. So, I thought this would have been a welcome move for Tsvangirai when he becomes President – whenever, I do know for him to do this – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- Would they not want?
We cannot have a situation where doubting Thomases, those who do not see themselves being in power must speak for those who want to be in power – that cannot happen! Allow those who see light at the end of the tunnel, continue moving and get to that light and they can follow.
Like they say, ‘if you cannot beat them, join them’. It is equally important to understand that.
We also had a situation where at the end of the day it is important that we are seen as legislators to be respecting this Constitution. I, for one, independent Member of Parliament representing Norton, we go on with what the Constitution is required to do. We cannot go against the Constitution. As such, it is important that the other side lobbies graciously, politely to the majority to see how best we can move forward; that is politics too. Politics is not about being stubborn when you are a few; it is about realising there is a majority and we must do that. Exactly, the same way I won in Norton; I spoke to some members of the opposition –for them to give me votes, I was not stubborn but I managed to cohese them so that I could win. So, it is part of the strategy. Strategy requires you to analyse factually, constitutionally, properly and ultimately be the winner at the end of the day. I do thank them for the votes that they gave me and I am doing exactly what the people who voted for me expect me to do by ensuring that this
Constitution is adhered to, and respected at the end of the day.
You are debating the appointment of the Chef Justice. They have never debated the appointment of the Commissioner General of Police whom they accuse of being brutal. So, where is the sanity here? Where is the consistency? So, if the President appoints the Commissioner
General, the Attorney-General, the Prosecutor General, the Commander
Defence Forces, the Army Commander, the Air Marshal and the
Commissioner General of Prisons, why can he not appoint the Chief
Justice? It has got to be in line. What is important is for the President to appoint somebody who has integrity, dignity, who shall be a nationalist, patriotic and who shall be able to respect and to uphold the founding principles of the struggle. Critical! – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
The President cannot appoint somebody who is awkward, one who will depart from the founding principles of the struggles. No one debates about the founding principles of the struggle but the question lies in the Head of the State to be able to appoint somebody who he believes will be able to do the job. Equally, it is more of double barrel, Mr. Speaker Sir.
As much as the President appoints, he equally has the power to fire. So, what is wrong with that? When the Chief Justice fails to discharge his duties constitutionally, he can be fired. We do not want a long process yet we have more things to do in the country – [Laughter] - There is more that we should be able to do. If you look at the
Constitution itself, it covers what we must do as legislators at the end of the day and that the debate seems to be more personal than factual; it is not constitutional. I urge Members of Parliament to really read the Constitution and realise that even if the President appoints, in fact this must be applauded because no one ever thinks. The Head of State has shown that he is the number one citizen of this country by ensuring that whatever he wants to do is constitutional – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- We must be grateful that he is also advised by the Vice President who is also in charge of the Chief Justice to do things which are constitutional. We have not been seen to be wanting in terms of us being constitutional at the end of the day.
I think it is important that those that will be in power one day will equally have the opportunity to amend this Constitution. So, what they have to do is to work as hard as they can to ensure that when they are in power, if that is the minority then they will be speaking their language and that is democracy. That is the beauty of democracy – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I look forward to a day that those who are opposing this will be in power and to see whether they will oppose it or defend it. So, it is only natural that those who are in power must defend and those who are in the opposition must oppose. I thank you – [HON.
Members: Hear, hear.]-
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I remember when I was a Government employee in the inclusive Government and in 2012, His Excellency the President and Head of State, there was meant to be
‘An all-Stakeholder Conference’ at the Sheraton and it was disrupted. I went to that conference as the lead person for the then Prime Minister and when I got there, there was a lot of disruption. So, I called the then Prime Minister and told him that there has been disruption, please do not come. I also phoned the then Deputy Prime Minister, Prof Arthur Mutambara to say, you cannot come here for security reasons because the All Stakeholder Conference was not going to happen for it had been disrupted. The then Prime Minister had to drive straight to State House to meet the President and he met the Head of State. President Mugabe said “call the media” and the media was called straight away. I was in that room when the media was summoned by the President. The
President did not even wait for his spokesperson George Charamba. He instructed Lawrence Kamwi to call the media into that room. I remember the President’s first words which were “ndiani ari kudisrupter all stakeholders conference yekugadzira bumbiro remutemo, chinhu chatakagarira husiku, tagara nehusiku tichiverenga mabhuku tikaappointer vana Goche nana Chinamasa kuti vaite?” and he said I will not brook that nonsense. That stakeholder conference, Mr. Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister will go ahead tomorrow at the same time and at the same venue. We will not even deploy police officers. “Let anyone who wants to disrupt that conference go and disrupt it and we will deal with them”. I am sure the Hon. Vice President remembers, the conference went ahead the following day at the same venue and same time without the police and without any disruption. The President wanted to create this document called the Constitution. Let me also say that I have excerpts of an interview which was done by the Hon. Vice
President and the Hon. VP in his interview said, ‘our President is a lawyer. President Mugabe read law. He has honorary degrees but one of the degrees that he read is law from the University of London.’ So the President knows his mandate.
The number one mandate of a president is upholding the Constitution. When the President wakes up in the morning to go to work at 8 in the morning and gets into his office until he leaves his office at 5pm, all he does in the interim is protecting and upholding the Constitution. He is not doing anything else and that is why even with that process where the Judicial Service Commission interviewed people for the position of Chief Justice, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe went ahead and appointed Justice Malaba as Chief Justice from the list of people that he got from the Judicial Services Commission. So the President is upholding the Constitution in the state that it is. People can wax lyrics and say whatever they want to say but the President is a man of honour who knows the rule of law and how to protect the
Constitution. Mr. Speaker, allow me to go to the section that has been quoted by another Hon. Member but he did not do a very good job, which talks about the Head of State the President, Section 89. It says that “the President is the Head of State and Government and
Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces.” He ended there but Section 90 talks about the duties of the President. “The President must uphold, defend, obey and respect this Constitution as the supreme law of the land.” I did not write this Constitution.
Let me go to Section 189 which speaks of the appointment of judges. “The Chief Justice, the Deputy Chief Justice, the Judge
President of the High Court and all other judges are appointed by the
President in accordance with this section.” Mr. Speaker, when the President appointed the current Chief Justice Malaba, he was acting in accordance with this Constitution after the Hon Vice President, as the
Minister of Justice had made notice that he was going to amend the Constitution so that the President could appoint single handedly.
I would have wanted to respond to the person who said the
President appoints the Commander of the Defence Forces, the Head of
Police and Head of Air Force, that is the Executive. The Army, Police, Prison Services and Air Force are part of the Executive. The State has three arms which are the Executive, Judiciary and Legislature. That is why the President cannot appoint the Speaker of Parliament. It is called the principle of separation of powers and people must be able to understand that.
If you are a Member of Parliament who brushes his/her teeth in the morning, comes to this House but do not understand that, what then do you understand? That is pedestrian information for a legislator who is literate and able to read 1,2,3. That is why in some other quarters people of Mabvuku are saying “Maridadi, ma MP ngavaite vanhu vakaendawo kuchikoro with 5 O’levels including any language which could be Tonga, Chewa, Nyanja but people should be able to read.” The problem with our people is that they do not read. When they see paper they want to go to the toilet. Paper is for reading and not for taking to the toilet.
Mr. Speaker, the sum effect of allowing the President to appoint the Chief Justice single handedly is that we are retrogressing. In South Africa, another jurisdiction, the President appoints in consultation with the leaders of opposition political parties in Parliament. What it means is that Mr. Julius Malema is consulted. My money is consulted.
Someone is talking about America. When we debate in Parliament, we are also talking of what is called best practice. President Mugabe always says that Zimbabwe is a sovereign nation. We can talk about best practice but we must also have our own. America is not best practice. If George Bush was playing golf and he declared war on Iran, is that what you want to do? It is bad and that is why President Mugabe – because he respects the Constitution - President Mugabe came to Parliament to seek condonation to be allowed to continue to deploy our forces in the
DRC. President Mugabe did not deploy forces to DRC and then left for
Zvimba to go and spend the weekend. He deployed forces and came to
Parliament and said to the Parliamentarians, “I seek condonation for our forces to be in the DRC” because he respects the Constitution.
Our Hon V.P here is a lawyer who spent 10 years of his early adult life in prison fighting for the liberation of this country. The reason he went to jail for 10 years is because he wanted Zimbabweans to be respected.
He was observing democracy because Smith did not observe democracy.
Now, let me tell you that I have a problem when you try to bring a Bill to Parliament but Cabinet is in conflict on its own. The Constitution is a product of a political process and Cabinet is part of the political process. When a Bill is coming to Parliament, it is brought by a Minister like the Hon. Vice President. The assumption is that Cabinet has discussed and agreed on it. But when you bring a Bill and you have one Minister calling for a Press Conference to say zvirikuitwa imomo handibvumirane nazvo, then there is a problem Mr. Speaker. Let me tell you what is happening. I have three or four newspaper cuttings. It appears that even journalists are saying no, the Hon. Vice President is bringing this to Parliament so that he can benefit. I do not believe that.
This man is a lawyer and he is a man of honour. People that are saying that Hon. Vice President are setting you up for failure. They will clap hands for you in Parliament and as soon as they go out they will talk about you and they are setting you up for failure. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- You can say what you want to say but the history of this country taught us. It has set us up and why I admire the Hon. Vice President is that he has been able to sit, listen and take notes. Hon. Vice President, the skill and capacity to listen is strength. I want you to maintain that a strength.
I will tell you what happened once upon a time. People that are not able to tell each other the truth. Hon. Vice President, if your fly is open and someone says to you Mr. Vice President your fly is open, respect that person. But, there are people that will clap hands and say you are looking so fine when your fly is open. Those people do not love you. People that are clapping hands so that you amend this Constitution do not love you.
I am not a member of ZANU PF and I do not want to be a Minister nor a Deputy Minister and so, I will tell you the truth as it is. Hon. Vice President, I will borrow from Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga. I was thinking about it when I was at home that His Excellency the President appointed Mr. Malaba as Chief Justice using these same provisions in this Constitution because he knows that it works. Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga says when we debate in Parliament; we are debating Constitutional Amendment Bill.
Mr. Speaker, let us not debate with blinkers, saying members of the opposition are going to oppose this Bill because President Mugabe is the incumbent. Let us separate between the Office of the President as an Institution and the incumbent President Mugabe because this office will outlive a lot of people.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (MARUMAHOKO): Order,
you are left with three people.
HON. MARIDADI: Time flies when it is a member of the opposing and it is amazing. Mr. Speaker when we make laws, we are making laws for posterity; we are not making laws for one person. As Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga said, one day we will wake up and it will not be President Mugabe. It will probably be a lunatic in the name of
James Maridadi who will appoint his wife as Chief Justice and his son as Judge President. What will you do? Those are institutions of democracy and institutions of governance Mr. Speaker that need to be strengthened and the best way to strengthen institutions of democracy is to uphold the Constitution. With those few words, I commit my debate in the name of the Lord. Amen. Thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGANGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to congratulate all the Members who have spoken. They have spoken so well that I am so enthused by their contributions and I wish that this debate must continue tomorrow or Friday and next week because it is so interesting that both sides are contributing constructively and I am enjoying it. I believe that at the end of the day, I will show and lead the way. Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 8th June, 2017.
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the House do now adjourn
HON. ZIYAMBI: I second.
On the motion of the HON. ZIYAMBI, seconded by HON.
ZIYAMBI, the House adjourned at One minute to Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th June, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p. m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
BIOMETRIC SYSTEM IN PARLIAMENT
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to advise the House that the biometric
system is now operational at all points of entry and exit in Parliament building. In terms of the operations, on pressing the button, one should wait for a signal and a green light above the door then proceed to open the door. In the event that the system fails to respond one should press the emergency button for assistance.
PARLIAMENT OPEN DAY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Parliament will be holding an Open Day from Wednesday, 7th June to Friday 9th June, 2017. There will be exhibitions in the car park. Hon. Members with vehicles parked in the car park are kindly requested to remove them by end of day, Tuesday, 6th June 2017 to facilitate pitching up of tents and erection of exhibition booths. Hon. Members are requested to park their vehicles at their respective hotels and to utilise shuttle buses being offered by the hotels. Parking space will be available on the southern side of Nelson Mandela Avenue, between Sam Nunjoma Avenue and Third Street and along Third Street up to Simon Vengai Muzenda Street, formerly Fourth Street.
RAISING OF POINTS OF ORDER AND POINTS OF PRIVILEGE
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Chair has observed a disturbing trend whereby Hon. Members have developed a tendency of abusing Standing Orders pertaining to the raising of Points of Order and Points of Privilege in the House. The Chair wishes to clarify the procedure for raising Points of
Order and Points of Privilege as follows:-
- a) a Point of Order may be raised by another Member without notice in terms of Standing Order Number 68 (d), to alert the
Presiding Officer of a breach of the rules of the House by a
Member on the floor or by any other Member in the Chamber. Thus, Points of Orders should relate to possible violations or breaches of provisions of Standing Orders of the House or practice of the House or abuse of the rules of the House. Points of Order cannot be raised because a Member is not happy with another Member’s contribution. In fact, the majority of Points of
Order in the Eighth Parliament have been in this category. A
Member raising a Point of Order should simply direct the
Presiding Officer to the point complained of by citing the Standing Order or practice being violated.
- b) A Point of Privilege is raised by a Member to raise a complaint of breach of privilege or contempt which requires the immediate attention of the House. The Point of Privilege should thus clearly state the breach that should be addressed by the House. Hon. Members should therefore be guided accordingly and not abuse the rules of the House.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LANDS,
AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION
DEVELOPMENT ON THE UTILISATION OF THE BRAZILIAN
MECHANISATION FACILITY AND LIVESTOCK SITUATION IN
ZIMBABWE
HON. CHITINDI: I move the motion standing in my name that this
House takes note of the First Report of the Portfolio Committee on Lands, Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development on the utilisation of the Brazilian Mechanisation Facility and Livestock Situation in Zimbabwe.
HON. GWANETSA: I second.
HON. CHITINDI: Introduction
Farm machines have revolutionised the agriculture sector. Agricultural Mechanisation is a central indispensable pillar for making farm operations efficient and productive. In Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA), land productivity is among the lowest in the world, and Agricultural Mechanization has either stagnated or retrogressed in recent years. In SSA countries: over 60% of farm power is still provided by people’s muscles, mostly from women, the elderly and children; only 25% of farm power is provided by drudge animals; and less than 20% of mechanization services are provided by engine power, Food and Agriculture
Organisation (FAO) (2013) Report. In an effort to increase efficiency of agricultural production and maintaining the integrity and quality of farm products, the Government of Zimbabwe, under More Food For Africa Loan Irrigation Rehabilitation, entered into an agreement with Brazil, to the tune of US$98.6 million for the provision of mechanization equipment.
The first phase of the loan, amounting US$38.6 million worth of Brazilian equipment has been received and installed around the country. In light of the persistent and frequent droughts, farm machines are an indispensable strategy in the fight against hunger and poverty as well in achieving food security. As part of its oversight role, the Portfolio
Committee on Lands, Agriculture, Mechanization and Irrigation
Development resolved to conduct an inquiry on the utilisation of the Brazilian Mechanization Facility. In addition, the Committee took advantage of the verification tour of the irrigation schemes to get an update on the livestock condition throughout the country.
2.0 Objectives
2.1 In its inquiry, the Committee was guided by the following objectives;
- To assess the functional status of irrigation schemes in Zimbabwe;
- To appreciate the Brazilian facility programme on the ground in changing the livelihoods of beneficiaries;
- To understand the repayment modalities of the loan agreement;
- To assess the technical skills and competencies by beneficiaries in the use of the equipment;
- To appreciate the impact of drought on livestock and the economic well- being of farmers.
- Methodology
- In its inquiry, the Committee employed the following methods
3.2 Oral evidence session
3.2.1 On the 16th of February 2016, the Portfolio Committee on
Lands, Agriculture, Mechanization and Irrigation Development invited, Mr. J. Chitsiko, the Permanent Secretary for Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development for an oral evidence session to update the Committee on the utilisation of the Brazilian Mechanisation Facility, functional status of irrigation schemes and the 2015/2016 crop and Livestock Assessment.
3.3 Fact Finding Mission
3.3.1 Following the presentation from the Permanent Secretary, the
Committee conducted a tour of irrigation schemes from the 20th - 27th of
July 2016. The Committee was divided into two groups with the first group covering Zvimba (Musasurwa Irrigation Scheme), Zvishavane
(Bannockburn Irrigation scheme), Gwanda (Tuli Makwe Irrigation Scheme) and Lupane (Tshongokwe Irrigation Scheme). The second group covered, Mt Darwin (Mutondwe Irrigation Scheme), Mutoko (Chitora Irrigation scheme), Buhera (Nyanyadzi Irrigation Scheme) and Chiredzi (Tshovani Irrigation Scheme). The tours also provided the Committee with an opportunity to meet the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanization and Irrigation Development officials from the Agricultural, Technical and Extension Services (AGRITEX) and veterinary services.
4.0 Committee Findings: The Permanent Secretary for
Agriculture, Mr. J. Chitsiko
4.1 Irrigation Development in Zimbabwe
4.1.1 In his presentation, the Permanent Secretary noted that Zimbabwe has a total of about 205 590 hectares (ha) equipped with irrigation infrastructure. Of this hectarage, 132 465 ha is under functional irrigation. The More Food for Africa Loan Irrigation
Rehabilitation is targeting to put an additional 4100 ha under irrigation.
4.2 Functional Status of Irrigation Schemes in Zimbabwe
4.2.1 Zimbabwe has an irrigation potential of 2.2 million ha.
Currently, there are irrigation facilities covering about 200 000 ha. About a 120 000 hectarage has functional irrigation infrastructure; meaning that there is a gap which needs rehabilitation. Government has secured US$7 million for the identification and assessment of irrigation schemes that require immediate rehabilitation.
4.2.2 The Committee was informed that the repayment period for the Brazilian equipment is 15 years at an interest rate of 2% per annum. In addition, the Permanent Secretary noted that on the contention of whether the small holder farmers would be able to pay back the loan, the Ministry, adopted strategies that ensure farmers are able to repay. The method that has been adopted is of an operational lease where the farmers only pay for the services that have been rendered by the use of equipment rather than paying for the loan itself. The revenue that is raised is therefore, used to repay the loan as well as servicing of equipment.
4.2.2 The Permanent Secretary further highlighted that the Ministry has been able to raise money for the repayment of the loan on on-going process.
4.2.3 In terms of distribution, the Brazilian facility covers the communal areas, old resettlement an d A1 of the new resettlement. The Permanent Secretary also acknowledged that the assessment exercise to evaluate suitability of irrigation schemes to receive the equipment was conducted 5 years ago, hence some of the equipment delivered to farmers may no longer be suitable.
4.2.4 It was also reported that the Ministry had attached its officers to the manufacturing company in Brazil as well as appointment of a local servicing company to ensure adequate maintenance of the equipment in Zimbabwe.
4.3 A summary of the utilisation of the Brazil Mechanization
Facility.
Equipment |
Quantity |
Quantity |
Quantity |
Balance |
Tractor |
476 |
368 |
301 |
67 |
Disc plough |
218 |
218 |
209 |
9 |
Disk harrow |
446 |
446 |
259 |
187 |
Planter |
310 |
310 |
215 |
95 |
Fertilizer |
100 |
100 |
73 |
27 |
Knapsack |
6650 |
6650 |
5805 |
845 |
Center pivots |
50 |
37 |
- |
- |
Pumps |
106 |
106 |
106 |
- |
Traveling guns |
96 |
96 |
96 |
- |
4.4 The Permanent Secretary highlighted that in addition to the
Brazilian Mechanization Facility, the Government and the Indian
Government are finalising an irrigation equipment programme worth
US$30 million. The Government was also in negotiations with the
Belarus Government for another agricultural mechanization programme.
4.5 Fact Finding Mission
4.5.1 Chesa Mtondwe Irrigation Scheme in Mount
Darwin District
4.5.1.1 There are 3 projects in Mt Darwin District that received equipment under the More Food for Africa. At Chesa Mtondwe, the Irrigation scheme started operating in 2015 and has two agricultural seasons. The scheme has 25 hectares of irrigable land with 50 households as beneficiaries. Each household owns 0,5 hectare plot under semi portable sprinkler irrigation scheme. These beneficiaries include the following: war veterans, the youth, one Chief, four schools, the elderly and there are only three households headed by women. The beneficiaries also comprise of villagers that were relocated following the construction of the irrigation scheme and villagers from the vicinity of the irrigation programme. The farmers grow crops such as maize, sugar beans, round nuts, sweet potato and vegetables
4.5.1.2 Under the Brazilian Facility the scheme received two tractors, disc harrows, planters, Knapsack sprayers, fertilizer spreaders and other farming implements. Payment of the equipment under Brazilian facility include a fee of US$40 per hectare for using the pump, per season. A portion of the fee is sent to service the loan. The farmers also pay
US$100 for use of tractor per season. The fee covers fuel, at
US$40 per ha. Villagers were discouraged to bring their own fuel. It is anticipated that the farmers should repay the equipment in seven years.
The loan repayments are being done through Agribank.
4.5.1.3 The farmers received a starter pack from Government, mainly of maize in their first season. They managed to get an average of six tonnes per hectare. Benefits arising from the irrigation scheme include: employment creation, poverty reduction, nutritional benefits and improved well-being of the villagers.
4.5.1.4 Challenges faced at the Scheme include: Water losses due to dam leakages, siltation of the dam and lack of markets for their produce.
4.5.1.5 On livestock, the district is facing challenges of grazing and water shortages. The cattle need to be relocated especially in October and November, when water becomes scarce. Currently, livestock go for 10kms in search of water. Farmers are also getting paltry amounts for their livestock on the market.
4.6 Chitora Irrigation Scheme in Mutoko District
4.6.1 Chitora Irrigation Scheme is under the Old Resettlement scheme.
Mutoko district has six irrigation schemes with a total of 72 hectares. Chitora scheme has 36 hectares. The scheme receives water from a nearby dam with a 100 hectare capacity. However, the dam’s capacity has been reduced to 80 hectares due to siltation. Farmers grow crops such as maize, vegetables, sugar beans and sweet potatoes.
4.6.2 There are 3 schemes in Mutoko that benefited under the Brazilian facility including Chitora. One scheme at Murara received equipment in 2015 but has not yet made use of it because the dam dried; hence the equipment is just lying idle, yet beneficiaries have to service the loan.
4.6.3 Chitora has 72 households and 57 have paid fees, which enables them to fully benefit from the equipment. Under phase 1 and 2 of Chitora, there were no women beneficiaries because gender was not taken into consideration. Under phase 3, the situation improved where 50% of the beneficiaries are women. The irrigation scheme has a dispute resolution mechanism and inheritance policy within the scheme’s Constitution.
4.6.4 Mutoko district plans to expand the irrigation by another 40 hectares considering that the dam has the capacity to supply new hectares. However, there is resistance from some villagers who will be affected by the construction of the scheme.
4.6.5 Challenges: farmers complained of high electricity costs and for 9 hectares of irrigable land, U$19 000, accrued, making operations unviable and unsustainable. In the same vein, farmers complained of high input costs in production, particularly for fertilizer, chemicals, maintenance of infrastructure. In addition, Veterinary and Agritex officers lack vehicles to enable them to offer services to farmers. Agritex officers also lack resources to conduct demonstration plots for farmers.
4.6.6 Farmers complained that they were getting poor prices for their produce at Mbare Musika. This was exacerbated by cheap imports from South Africa. Furthermore, farmers fail to get proper holding bays and decent accommodation at Mbare Musika before trading their produce. Farmers are also being ripped off by middlemen at Mbare Musika.
4.6.7 On value addition, farmers requested for cold rooms to enable them to get more value for their products.
4.6.8 Farmers were skeptical of contract farming as they had been conned by some contractors.
4.6.9 On Livestock - the health of livestock has deteriorated in the area due to lack of pastures. Furthermore, the district has one fridge for the storage of vaccines and this makes it difficult to manage livestock diseases in the area, because the vaccines require a regulated temperature to be effective.
4.7 Nyanyadzi Irrigation Scheme in Chimanimani.
4.7.1 Nyanyadzi irrigation scheme started operating in 1932 and is under the old resettlement scheme. It covers a total of 432 hectares. The scheme receives water from Odzani and Osborne Dams. The scheme has 3 seasons per year and the farmers grow crops such as maize, vegetables, sugar beans, sweet potatoes, onions and wheat.
4.7.2 The scheme benefited two tractors, and 120 knapsacks under the Brazilian facility. Nyanyadzi has 721 plot-holders, thereby benefiting 2000 households.
4.7.3 Challenges: farmers complained of high water and electricity costs, making their operations expensive.
4.7.4 On Livestock - The health of livestock has deteriorated in the area due to lack of pastures. Furthermore, the district has one fridge for the storage of vaccines and this makes it difficult to manage livestock diseases in the area because the vaccines require a regulated temperature to be effective.
4.7.5 Veterinary and Agritex officers lack vehicles to enable them to offer services to farmers. Agritex officers also lack resources to conduct demonstration plots for farmers.
4.8 Tshovani Irrigation Scheme
4.8.1 The Irrigation scheme started operating in 1974 under ARDA. The scheme has 360 hectares of irrigable land with 120 households as beneficiaries. Each household owns a three hectare plot. The farmers grow crops such as cotton, chili, wheat, maize, sugarbeans, round nuts, sweet potatoes and vegetables.
4.8.2 Under the Brazilian Facility, the scheme received 3 tractors, 2 disc harrows, 2 planters, 23 knapsack sprayers, and 1 fertilizer spreader. Benefits arising from the irrigation scheme include: employment creation, poverty reduction, nutritional benefits and improved well-being of the villagers.
4.8.3 Challenges faced at the Scheme include: Water losses due to dam leakages, siltation of the dam and lack of markets for their produce. On livestock, the district is facing challenges of grazing and water shortages. There is cattle that will need to be relocated especially in October and November, when water becomes scarce. Farmers are also getting paltry amounts for their livestock on the market. A training was conducted by the Ministry on the use of the equipment. On dispute resolution, the scheme has a constitution which guides all the beneficiaries.
4.9 Musarurwa Irrigation Scheme
4.9.1 Musarurwa Irrigation Scheme is one of the nine smallholder irrigation schemes in Zvimba District. The scheme became operational in September 1998. It draws its water from Hunyani River. It has a membership of 50 plot holders of which 20 are male and 30, female. The Irrigation Management Committee is responsible for day to day operations as guided by their Constitution. Crops grown in the scheme comprise of the following; green mealies, sugar beans, groundnuts, tomatoes, sweet potatoes and leaf vegetables.
4.9.2 Since its inception, the scheme has managed to empower the community through employment creation, attainment of balanced diet, rural electrification, cattle raising and an improvement in the livelihoods of the community.
4.9.3 Under the Brazilian Facility, the scheme received 1 tractor, disc harrow, planter, and a Knapsack sprayer. The scheme is not spared from high ZESA and ZINWA bills. A total of US$8000 and
US$11000 for ZESA and ZINWA bill were reported respectively.
It was reported that farmers were failing to service the bills due to low yield. In addition, the scheme faces frequent breakdown of equipment. Most of the equipment at the scheme are old and constantly break. Furthermore, farmers observed that they were failing to access loans due to lack of collateral security.
4.9.4 Agritex department reported that they were playing an instrumental role by providing technical and advisory services, farmers training and dissemination of agricultural technologies in order to improve the livelihoods of the farmers. However, the department noted that transport was a challenge, limiting their mobility to assist farmers. However, one of the Agritex Officers is stationed at the scheme.
4.9.5 On livestock, the Veterinary Services Department reported that the livestock situation was fairly good across the province.
Grazing land was reported to be available in Zvimba District. However, in some parts of Makonde, Kariba, Ngezi and Sanyati were running out of grazing land. Daily farmers were also not spared as they are facing food shortages. The District has 66 Dip tanks that are all operational although 2 faced water challenges. Chemicals were reported to be available for dipping. Some of the challenges raised include, high cost of repair and maintenance of dip tanks and spread of rabbis. The Department recommended for drilling of more boreholes, administration of anti-rabies for free.
4.10 Bannockburn Irrigation Scheme.
4.10.1 The scheme has a total hectarage of 110 ha and only 23 ha are currently under flood irrigation with 88 beneficiaries allocated 0.25 ha each. The center pivot system is still under construction which covers 30 ha, with 89 beneficiaries affiliated. The scheme started with 36 beneficiaries in September 2012. The scheme is operating in two seasons, planting 3 crops namely maize, sugar beans and butternuts, with very low yield being obtained. The Departments of Agritex, Mechanization and Women Affairs play an important role in the development of the irrigation scheme.
4.10.2 The scheme benefited 2 tractors, and 120 knapsacks. The scheme's major challenges are lack of fencing materials, frequent pump breakdowns, high cost of tractor hiring, high cost of inputs, invasion by wild animals such as hippos and warthogs, high water and electricity bills, lack of transportation of products to the markets and theft of property.
4.10.3 Concerning the scheme, the Department of Mechanization reported that they had completed construction of a pump-house,
900m tank, and supply canal 300mm*120m under the PSIP. The Department also completed construction of infield canals, borehole drilling for Extension workers, homestead refurbishment, land leveling, land tillage, fencing of infield roads. The Department was still in the process of installing center pivots, pipelines and electrification of homestead. Financial challenges was pointed out as the major impediment to the ultimate completion of the project.
4.10.4 On livestock, it was reported that Zvishavane District faces perennial droughts, which have worsened the livestock situation in the District. Grazing land was reported to be poor across the district with worse in communal and A1 sectors which are overgrazed. Mining activities have disturbed grazing as some of the miners fail to reclaim the land after extracting minerals and the pits also become death traps for livestock. The District lost almost 900 cattle due to drought.
4.11 Tuli Makwe Irrigation Scheme
4.11.1 Tuli Makwe Irrigation Scheme was established in 1966. The scheme consists of four blocks of irrigable land covering 202 ha under surface irrigation scheme. Currently, 191.1 ha is arable. The water source is Tuli Makwe Dam. The scheme has 476 members, with plot sizes averaging 0.5 – 2 ha. Crops mainly grown at the scheme include maize, wheat, potatoes and beans. Part of the scheme was rehabilitated in 2006/7 with assistance from the French Government. In addition, 332 members, who are capable of paying water and electricity bills are authorised to irrigate. The scheme has an estimated electricity bill of US$101, 087.12 as of 18 May 2016, which is highly unsustainable for rural communities. Two out of four pumps are operational.
4.11.2 The state of infrastructure, 4 pumps which are 75kw electric motors each whilst 2 run at a time, 1 is fully functional and the other breaks constantly. Canals and pipelines are too old and farmers frequently replace some. The fence is too old (installed 1965) and worm out, total of 23 km require replacement.
4.11.3 The scheme needs to rehabilitate its infield canals, put up scheme fences, repair/replace delivery pipeline, repair electric motors, install center pivots and alternatively installation of solar system for the scheme pumping station at an estimated cost of
US$1,746,000.00
4.11.4 The scheme benefited the following from the Brazilian Mechanization Facility, 4 tractors, 1 disk harrow, 2 planters and 1 fertilizer sprayer. Farmers indicated that they were unaware of the total value of the equipment, although they were paying for services rendered. The scheme’s major challenges include, lack of spares, high water and electricity bills, dam siltation, pumps and canals frequently breaks down. In addition, farmers complained that the road network is poor thereby limiting access to markets. Farmers mourn that when they manage to sell their products in Bulawayo, they face stiff competition from cheap products from South Africa.
4.11.4 On livestock, the Department reported that the District has 4405 livestock excluding small stocks. The district also experience perennial droughts, thereby straining the animal health. In addition, the grazing land is limited. As a department, it encourages destocking, however most farmers are resisting, coupled by the market situation where buyers are offering low prices for cattle. Dip tanks need rehabilitation. Farmers were failing to pay US$2.00 per head per year. On animal health, farmers are failing to access drugs and vaccines, hence are not able to vaccinate their cattle. The black leg and tick-borne diseases are the major killer in the district.
4.12 Tshongokwe Irrigation Scheme
4.12.1 The scheme was established in 1966 with 15 plot holders in which each farmer had 0.4 ha under irrigation. Currently, there are 63 plot holders each occupying 0.4 ha. Crops grown include green mealies, summer irrigated maize, tomatoes, vegetables, onions, butternuts, potatoes and sugar beans. The scheme has created employment and aided in food security. The irrigation is run by the Irrigation Management Committee comprising of 7 members (2 male and 5 female) with subcommittees in areas such as water, marketing, discipline, health and security committees.
4.12.2 The scheme received the following under More Food for Africa Programme, tractor, 3 disk plough, planter, Disc harrow and knap sprayer. In an effort to cut transport costs to the market, the scheme managed to buy a trailer but was advised that the tractor should not leave the farm. The scheme won 3rd price for the well run irrigation scheme in the country in 1999, came best in 2000, hosted the National World Food day in 2013 among others. The Committee was astonished and witnessed that truly, they deserved to be the best, and this can also be attributed to the fact that most plot holders are females who are full time farmers.
4.12.3 The major challenges facing the scheme are water shortages due to dam siltation, high inputs costs, poor road network and unavailability of loans. Farmers were selling their produce at the boarding schools in the district. Customers come from as far as Bulawayo, Hwange, Victoria Falls and Lupane. Farmers mourn stiff competition from cheap imports from Zambia in Vic Falls and South Africa in Bulawayo.
4.12.4 In addition, the scheme recognised the need to install center pivots.
4.12.5 The Committee was further informed that the district was proposing two additional irrigation schemes namely, BubiLupane Irrigation Scheme with a dam capacity of 40 000 000m3, capable of irrigating 150 ha with 400 plot holders. The Semizi Irrigation Scheme, with a dam capacity of 95000m3, capable of irrigating 20 ha with 60 plot holders, both under flood boarder strip.
4.12.6 On livestock, the cattle census indicates that Matebeleland
North has 640 000 head of cattle. The grazing situation was considered dire and deteriorating due to the perennial droughts. Worse off, farmers were losing their cattle to wildlife. It was reported that 50% of boreholes were functional thereby straining livestock on access to water. Most of the disease outbreaks were under control.
5.0 Committee Observations
5.1 After deliberations on the presentation from the Permanent
Secretary and tour of irrigation schemes that benefited under the More Food for Africa programme, the Committee made the following observations;
- There is no clear irrigation policy in Zimbabwe, mechanization facilities (fund) are a piecemeal solutions to the challenges faced by the irrigation schemes. A clear policy will not only attract investment in the irrigation sector, but lay down irrigation scheme management.
- Although the Brazilian Mechanization Facility is meant to increase yield capacity, failure to give consideration to production costs such as electricity, water, tillage may result in farmers failing to realize meaningful profits and hampered the success of the programme.
- Farmers were not aware of the cost of the irrigation equipment they received, as well as the repayment period, although they appreciated that they were paying for the services rendered.
- There is no deliberate policy for the involvement of women and youths as well as vulnerable groups such as the disabled into irrigation schemes. Some are beneficiaries by coincidence.
- The successful story of Tshongokwe Irrigation Scheme can be attributed to the notion that the majority of plot holders are woman, who are committed. The Irrigation Policy should therefore seek to gender mainstream more women into irrigation schemes.
- Some irrigation schemes received more equipment than their hectare capacity
- Farmers are getting a raw deal in the marketing of their commodities on the domestic markets. The local markets are always over flooded with cheap agricultural products from the neighbouring countries.
- Dam siltation remains a threat to the success of the Irrigation programmes in the country. All the Irrigation schemes indicated that they were facing dam siltation challenges.
- Siltation of dams is a threat to the growth of irrigation schemes in Zimbabwe.
10.Most irrigation schemes concentrate on marketing their agricultural products in their raw form, there are no considerations for value addition at the farm place in line with the detects of the ZIM ASSET prescription.
11.Farmers are being forced to sell their cattle at sub-economic prices as they are forced to destock due to lack of pastures.
12.Irrigation development is the most progressive strategy to mitigate the impact of climate change.
13.These irrigation schemes have led to employment creation, nutritional benefits and poverty reduction.
14.Farmers are suffering losses, due to lack of technology and information on post harvesting methods and on value addition of some produce.
15.Reliable water sources are critical to enable farmers to make use of irrigation equipment and to enable them to service their loans on time.
16.There are some who are struggling to pay the cost for usage of the equipment, which will be a burden in servicing of the loan.
17.Farmers lack information on terms and conditions of contract farming.
18.Agritex and Veterinary officers are immobile due to lack of vehicles, hence hampering their capacity to advise and assist farmers.
19.The Department of Veterinary and Agritex play an important role in assisting irrigation schemes to produce maximum yields.
- In the absence of a contract farming legislative/policy framework, farmers remain skeptical of contract farming.
6.0 Recommendations
6.1 The Committee recommends the following;
- The Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanization and Irrigation Development should finalise and launch a comprehensive
Agricultural Policy as well as developing a clear Irrigation Policy that lays out the selection process of beneficiaries, which takes into account gender issues in line with the
Constitution by end of year. In the absence of the said policy frameworks, it will remain difficulty to attract investment in the agriculture sector.
- Mechanization facilities should also include solar system, to enable irrigation schemes to substitute ZESA electricity with solar power system and minimize costs of electricity in-line with the use of renewal energy. New arrangements such as India and Belarus should therefore encompass solar power.
- Periodic monitoring, evaluations and audit of the equipment under the Brazilian Facility is critical to ensure that the equipment is being fully utilised in line with PFM Act. The Committee recommends that a yearly regular audit be carried out by the Ministry of Agriculture and produce reports for public consumption to that effect.
- Irrigation schemes should be capacitated by providing value addition machines, to be able to add value to their produce, as a strategy to increase their profit margins in line with the detects of ZIMASSET.
- Statutory Instrument 64/2016 should be reviewed by end of March 2017, to include a wide range of agricultural products, and a full monitoring of point of entry should be implemented to ensure that local farmers are protected from cheap imports.
- Efforts should also be made towards attracting agricultural mechanization manufacturing companies to open their plants in Zimbabwe.
- Although the Irrigation Scheme is a noble idea to empower the locals, the Ministry should come up with Constitution framework by end of March 2017, to be used by the management committees.
- AMA should be decentralised in all the farming districts of the country to assist farmers in the marketing of their products as well as to disseminate information on the terms and conditions of contract farming among others.
- Water and electricity tariffs should be minimised to enable both the farmer and the utility providers to break-even. A discussion of the cost-structure tariff should be encouraged between the Ministry of Agriculture and Ministry of Energy as a matter of urgency.
10.Leadership in Mutoko District should expedite the process of expanding the irrigation scheme at Chitora, to reduce hunger and create employment in the district. Chitora Irrigation scheme, exhibited huge potential for development.
11.Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanization and Irrigation Development should finalise the contract farming framework by mid-year 2017, as a strategy to encourage investment in the irrigation schemes.
12.The Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanization and Irrigation Development should institute an equipment rationalisation process, by withdrawing equipment where it is unnecessary and give to those in need.
13.Distribution of the second phase should only be instituted, after carrying irrigation schemes assessment needs within six months.
14.The Ministry of Finance should provide for adequate resources in the 2017 Budget Vote on Agriculture to enable Agritex and Veterinary services to provide services to farmers in the various districts of the
THE HON. SPEAKER: I would like to inform the august House
that Hon. Majaya lost her husband last week. Could we all rise and observe a minute of silence?
All Hon. Members observed a minute of silence.
*HON. GWANETSA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I stand up to
support the report which has been given by Hon. Chitindi. This is in regards to the Committee on Lands, Agriculture and Irrigation
Development. Before I go further, may I please put a heap of praises on
Hon. Made. I remember we gave a report on the bad state of ARDA and
Cold Storage Commission. I am glad to announce in this House that Hon. Made made a follow up on the report and there is some improvement in these two bodies.
My hope is that Hon. Made will follow up on the projects raised on the irrigation schemes and I have all the faith in him. In the report which was given, we were informed that all our irrigations amount to 2.2 million hectares. I am saying if all these irrigation schemes could be working in the proper state, we would not suffer from hunger or starvation, but we encountered some problems in the operations of these irrigation schemes. I am going to highlight a few of them raised by Hon.
Chitindi and I am going to talk about five points.
The first one is on equipment distribution, siltation of dams, electricity supply; the lack of co-operation between agricultural parastatals in regards to irrigation and the last point is on livestock. In the report raised by Hon. Chitindi, donations of equipment receivedfrom Brazil such as was given to Mutondwe in Mt. Darwin. there are twenty-five hectares and only two tractors. If we are working in a proper manner, it means one tractor can do the job in two days. This means that there is over supply. We think that we need to have a relook at the distribution of tractors and equipment. We were told that some of these things were done in five years. My advice is that the equipment should be equitably distributed.
I will now turn to siltation. Most of our dams have silted because at times when you look at the dams and say they are 100% full, but because of siltation, they will be 25% full. The main causes of siltation is that people are following wrong land management proposals such as when they are farming, they follow channels which cause erosion. We are saying we need to be careful on that. We know that our country is an agro-based economy and we were relying on rain fed. I am saying if we can work on desiltation of our dams, we will be able to feed Zimbabwe and no one can starve.
I am now turning to electricity supply (ZESA). There was a shortage of electricity in these irrigation schemes. When we talk about farming we say farming is a window period, meaning that if you do not do all your planting and agriculture on time, you will definitely lose out. We realised that throughout all the irrigation schemes we visited, we had problems in ZESA, hence problems in the functioning of these irrigation schemes.
My fourth item as I stated is the unity of purpose by parastatals in agriculture. Wherever we went around, there was nobody who represented GMB, Agribank or anybody who represented Agricultural Marketing Authority (AMA), yet we are saying if only these parastatls had representatives in these irrigation schemes, the problems would be nipped in the bud before they cause destructions. When we talk of a parastatal like Agribank, they would know that farming is a business and people would receive loans for appropriate programmes because what we found out was that people were growing different crops in that place.
In all the provinces we went, we did not have representatives from AMA because this is an important arm of Government because they will be advising farmers on the crops which will be bringing in cash to the farmers. This is because they know crops which are on the market and which are needed by the market and they could be advising the farmers. We are saying if they could participate, irrigation schemes will bring up the economy of the country.
I will now close my topic by talking about livestock. Whenever we do any farming, there are stocks which remain behind and we got into those irrigation schemes. We saw what the agricultural irrigation schemes were doing that they had all they could do in agriculture, but they did not indulge in animal livestock and yet they could use some residue from the farms. In my constituency, we grow sugar-cane and there is a bi-product called molasses. When we put molasses on maize stocks, we will have added value to your livestock, that is why we talk of beneficiation and value addition. But, there was none of these livestock programmes in these irrigation projects. I will be very brief because if I make a very long speech, even the Minister of Agriculture would now know where I came from. So, let me be brief. I thank you.
HON. MATUKE: Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th June, 2017.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A NEEDS ASSESSMENT DIALOGUE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have an announcement. I
have to inform all Chairpersons of Committees that they are invited to a meeting with Consultants for a Needs Assessment Dialogue tomorrow, Wednesday, 7th June, 2017 AT 10.00 a.m. in Committee Room No. 4. The purpose of the meeting is for the Consultants to hear from Members what they feel their capacity needs are and to fill in questionnaires which will assist the consultants to develop a capacity building plan. The meeting is at 1000 hours in Committee Room No. 4.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that we revert back to Orders of the
Day, Number 8, 2 and 3 on the Order Paper, in that order.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON MANDATORY SENTENCE
FOR RAPE ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker, I move that the motion on Mandatory stiff sentencing for rape and other gender based violence crimes, which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper.
HON. MATSUNGA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
ESTATES ADMINISTRATORS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 8, 2016]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Estates Administrators Amendment Bill [H.B.8, 2016].
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Madam Speaker, Government’s role in
relation to the creation of a conducive and viable business environment and the effective, efficient and fair administration of justice is beyond question. The nation’s thrust towards economic growth through the ease of doing business initiative is firmly anchored on an efficient justice delivery system insofar as the resolution of commercial and business matters is concerned. Government is, therefore, fully committed towards the creation of a sound and robust legal framework which is essential for the establishment of a conducive and productive business environment. There is, therefore, no doubt that if our legislative framework equips the courts to handle business cases expeditiously, the country’s economic recovery and growth agenda will become achievable. In the whole, our economic goals, as enunciated in the economic blueprint, ZIM ASSET, will be realised.
Madam Speaker, there is consensus that the resolution of insolvency cases is one of the key factors crucial to the effective and efficient running of business enterprises. Be that as it may, the current legislation governing the resolution of insolvency cases is fragmented and scattered in several pieces of legislation. There is, also, duplication of duties between the Council of Estate Administrators and the Master of the High Court, thereby prolonging the process of resolving insolvency matters. These shortcomings which adversely affect the ease of doing business in the country, have , therefore, necessitated the crafting of the Estate Administrators (Amendment Bill) 2016, which seeks to amend the Estate Administrators Act (Chapter 7:20).
Madam Speaker, this now brings me to the contents of the Bill before Hon. Members. Clauses 5 and 7 seek to amend the principal Act by broadening the scope of application of the Act to include the
Insolvency Practitioner in relation to the register kept by the Council of Estate Administrators and prohibition of practicing without a practicing certificate, respectively. In addition to the register of Estate
Administrators, the Council shall establish and maintain a register of Insolvency Practitioners. This is in keeping with the broad amendment to the Act which seeks to include Insolvency Practitioners under its ambit. Similarly, as is the case with Estate Administrators, Insolvency Practitioners will be prohibited from performing insolvency work except with a valid practicing certificate.
Madam Speaker, Clause 6 seeks to insert a new part to the principal Act, to provide for the registration and de-registration of insolvency practitioners. The new part also seeks to provide new qualifications for insolvency practitioners. In terms of the new provisions, the Council shall establish and maintain a register to be known as the Register of Insolvency Practitioners. The register shall contain the details of Registered Insolvency Practitioners in the country.
This will enhance, transparency, accountability and efficiency since all Registered Insolvency Practitioners will appear in that register.
Madam Speaker, in order to enhance transparency, efficiency and accountability, the Register of Insolvency shall be open to the public. Any interested persons can inspect the register and if they so desire, make copies thereof. Further, the Secretary of the Council shall provide the Master of the High Court with a copy of the Register of Insolvency Practitioners every year. This will improve the administration of justice and effective functioning of the courts given the role of the courts in insolvency matters.
The new provisions seek to ensure that Insolvency Practitioners are people of high professional standard. Such professionals as registered legal practitioners, registered accountants and auditors and members of the Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators in Zimbabwe are specified as eligible for provisional registration as Insolvency Practitioners. These requirements, together with the additional requirements for final registration as set out in the new provisions, will ensure the professionalism of insolvency practitioners resulting in greater efficiency in the resolution of insolvency cases.
Clause 8 seeks to insert a new section to the principal Act to provide for the renewal procedures for the practicing certificate of the Insolvency Practitioner. This Clause also provides for the grounds upon which the application of the practicing certificate may be rejected. Like any other professional practicing certificate, the practicing certificate of an Insolvency Practitioner will be renewed annually, upon satisfaction of the specified requisite criteria. If the specified criteria is not met, the
Secretary of the Council of Estate Administrations and Insolvency Practitioners will reject the application.
The provisions on the renewal of the practicing certificate of the Insolvency Practitioner will help to ensure that only competent persons are granted practicing certificates and, as such, remain in the Register of Insolvency Practitioners. The annual renewal of the practicing certificate of the Insolvency Practitioner will provide checks and balances to the functions of the Insolvency Practitioner insofar as insolvency matters are concerned. That only insolvency practitioners who meet the prescribed requirements will have their practicing certificates renewed will ultimately improve the administration of justice through the professional and competent handling of insolvency matters.
Clause 9 seeks to insert a new section to the principal Act that will provide for the application of provisions on the disciplinary powers of the Council to Insolvency Practitioners. The grounds specified in the principal Act as constituting misconduct and thus requiring disciplinary action by the council will also be extended to encapsulate insolvency practitioners. These provisions will ensure that insolvency practitioners observe highest standards of professional ethics in the conduct of their duties. This in turn, will guarantee the professional and competent handling of insolvency matters. This will ultimately not only improve the effective administration of justice in the country, but also contribute to the ease of doing business campaign.
Clause 11 will add a new section to the principal Act to provide that if any court in Zimbabwe removes a registered Insolvency
Practitioner from the register, such court should inform the Council.
This will enhance the harmonisation of the functions of the court and the
Council. This will help to ensure that the register of Insolvency Practitioners kept by the Council will remain up to date and only contains persons who are qualified to be such.
Clause 12 will insert a new schedule to the principal Act. The schedule will provide for the code of ethics of an Insolvency Practitioner to enhance the professional and competent performance of his or her duties. The schedule will provide for such professional ethics as integrity, objectivity, confidentiality, professional behaviour, professional competence and due care. Honourable Members will agree with me that these are important principles which should be observed by every professional. The Insolvency Practitioner, being a person occupying a position of such a high professional matter, is, of necessity, required to observe these professional ethics. There is no iota of doubt that the observance of this code of professional ethics will create highly competent and professional Insolvency Practitioners who will perform their functions in insolvency cases above board.
Hon. Members will note that this amendment Bill has dealt extensively with the challenges inherent in the resolution of insolvency cases in this country. The amendment Bill will harmonise the fragmented legislation dealing with insolvency cases and thus ensure that these cases are resolved expeditiously. If enacted, the amendment Bill will make the Council of Estate Administrators and Insolvency Practitioners the sole oversight agency for Estate Administrators and Insolvency Practitioners. Further, the code of ethics provided for in the amendment Bill will ensure that Estate Administrators and Insolvency Practitioners observe professional standards which will improve the handling of insolvency cases. There is, therefore, no doubt that the Estate Administrators Amendment Bill, 2016, once enacted into law, will go a long way in enhancing the speedy resolution of insolvency cases, thereby improving the ease of doing business in Zimbabwe.
I therefore, commend the Estate Administrators Amendment Bill, 2016, to the House and move that the Bill be now read for the second time.
HON. ZIYAMBI:
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The Estate Administrators Amendment Bill [H.B. 8, 2016] was gazetted on 9 December 2016. The Bill seeks to ensure that the Act be in tune with best practices internationally. It seeks to create requirements for registration of Insolvency Practitioners. The Bill provides for the qualifications, registration and de-registration procedures for Insolvency
Practitioners.
2.0 METHODOLOGY
This report is a product of public consultations conducted from 20 to 25 March 2017 in Bulawayo, Gweru, Masvingo, Mutare, Kadoma and
Harare. The consultations were in compliance with Section 141(2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, which requires that Parliament ensures that interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament. The Committee’s report was also informed by written submissions from interested stakeholders and an analysis of the Bill by the Committee.
3.0 SUBMISSIONS BY PARTICIPANTS
The Committee received the following submissions on the Estates
Administrators Amendment Bill.
3.1 Clause 2: Amendment of section 1 of Cap. 27:20 No issues.
3.2 Clause 3: Amendment of section 2 of Cap 27:20
No issues.
3.3 Clause 4: Amendment of section 4 of Cap 27:20 No issues.
3.4 Clause 5: Amendment of section 19 of Cap 27:20
No issues.
3.5 Clause 6: New part inserted in Cap 27:20
i) 25A Register of Insolvency Practitioners
No issues.
- 25B Register to be open for inspection.
Most Participants felt that by prescribing a fee to access the Register which is a public document impedes access, thereby hindering public accountability. They submitted that the Government should ensure that the department is adequately resourced to enable the public to have free access to the Register. A fee should be for making copies not accessing.
- 25C Qualifications for provisional and final registration.
Members of the public who included the technocrats in the field in question raised queries to the proposed section 25C (d) in that it is too broad and as such, is prone to manipulation and abuse. They submitted that qualifications must be clearly defined in the Act and not left to the discretion of the Council. iv) 25D Application for registration.
No issues were raised.
v) 25E Registration
Members of the public felt that Section 25E does not provide redress to those applicants aggrieved by the Council’s decision. The proposed amendment does not provide an appeal mechanism thus negating principles of administrative justice.
- vi) 25F Cancellation or suspension of registration.
No issues were raised. vii) 25G Restoration of registration.
No issues were raised. viii) 25H Code of ethics for insolvency Practitioners. No issues arising.
3.6 Clause 7: Amendment of Section 26 of Cap 27:20
No issues.
3.7 Clause 8: New section inserted after section 29 of Cap
27:20
No issues.
3.8 Clause 9: Insertion of new section to Part VII No issues.
3.9 Clause 10: New section inserted in Cap 27:20
No issues.
3.10 Clause 11: Insertion of New Schedule to Cap 27:20
Members of the public stated that ‘professional misconduct and/or conduct’ should be included in Part A of the proposed amendment. It was also submitted that failure to observe the Code of Ethics should constitute professional misconduct and must thus be considered when assessing the conduct of an insolvency practitioner. It was agreed that declaration of assets must be included in the schedule and that sexual harassment must be included as professional misconduct.
4.0 COMMITTEE FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
4.1 Regarding payment of a fee to access the register, it was the
Committee’s finding that a reasonable fee be levied to access the register. Instead of shooting down the proposed amendment, regard should be had to the amount levied. In this instance, payment of a fee is in line with international best practice.
4.2 The Committee found that the proposed section 25C leaves room for manipulation and abuse as unqualified and unworthy individuals may end up being registered as insolvency practitioners. To cure this anomaly, the qualifications for registration must be clearly defined and stated and not left to the discretion of the Council.
4.3 It was the Committee’s finding that the Bill does not provide an appeal mechanism in the event that an application for registration is denied. It is suggested that a clear procedure for administrative justice to applicants be clearly outlined.
4.4 The Committee found that ‘professional misconduct and/or conduct’ should be included and defined in Part A of the proposed amendment. It was also observed that the proposed amendment does not provide censure or punishment against a practitioner who fails to observe the Code of Ethics because in terms of the amendment, failure to observe the Code is not considered
professional misconduct when assessing the conduct of a practitioner. This goes against the essence of the Code and the Act.
4.5 Sexual harassment should be included in the code.
4.6 On 25C which talks about cancellation or suspension of registration, there is no mention of suspension unless on 25 (iii) (b) and 25F (iv). These sections need redrafting so that they are clear in terms of suspension of a member.
4.7 Issues surrounding gender sensitivity must be included in the Bill.
4.8 Reference should be made of the Civil Service as we no longer have the Public service
5.0 CONCLUSION
Generally, the proposed amendments were accepted because the public felt that to a large extent, they are in line with international best practices. The public commended the spirited efforts by Government to improve the ease of doing business in the country by aligning Acts of Parliament to internationally accepted standards. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Madam Speaker, I rise to commend the work by the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and his staff which provides evidence of
Government’s effort on ensuring the alignment of our legislation towards international best practice and also evidence of Government’s sensitivity to what is happening in the economy. Clearly, this legislation provides Government’s sensitivity to the economy.
The condition of our economy creates a lot of fertile ground for insolvency which requires that people who are engaged in the business of dealing with insolvency companies need to be regulated in a very tight fashion. The registration of those people conducting - [HON. P.
- SIBANDA: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda!
HON. CHASI: The registration of those people who are engaged in that type of business must be subjected to a very tight regime as is provided for in this Bill; so it is very timeous. It is also commendable that this Bill provides a Code of Ethics against which the conduct of those practitioners can be measured. I think that is a very innovative piece of measurement of their conduct. It is not sufficient that one is an auditor or a lawyer and they automatically should be able to practice in this area of business.
So, I would like to commend and encourage Hon. Members to please support this Bill – that is my submission. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Hon. Madam Speaker, I wish to
lend my voice to the support of this very important Bill and I also rise to commend the leader of Government business in the House, our esteemed Vice President who is also the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for very, I suppose as usual, diligently pursuing the legislative agenda of improving ease of doing business. I wish if his work ethic could also be emulated by the other members of Cabinet that he leads so that we see Bills coming in order to improve, not only our economy but our lives. So I do commend him seriously.
Madam Speaker, I will proceed to support. I support the Bill because it will indeed go a long way in bringing Zimbabwe also to the forefront of, I suppose cutting edge practices and procedures in terms of the regulations of professionals who are involved in handling trust monies and trust accounts that are in administering estates. I want to believe that also members of the public that the Committee heard, as the Hon. Chairperson indicated, were very much in support of this and welcomed the innovations that are brought by the Bill. A lot were actually wondering why all along insolvency practitioners were left to their own devices and dealing with very phenomenal amounts of money but not subjected to any professional conduct and the temptation clearly was great.
Madam Speaker, in my support of the Bill, I hope that the Hon. Vice President will also consider making some few changes that were mainly elaborated by the Chairperson. In particular, I would also lend my voice to request that they seriously consider in the Bill where there appears to be an oversight, where it describes the procedure of disciplining an errant insolvency practitioner, on which the issue of suspension just arises out of the blue in the procedure when the heading talks about cancellation of registration. It really does go diligently to spell out how a deviant insolvency practitioner or a suspected one is going to have their registration cancelled but then it forgot to tell us how the suspension arises. Does it arise because the deviance is not serious enough to merit cancellation or does it arise before the actual hearings to cancel or is it antecedent to the disciplinary procedure? If that is dealt with, that will prevent a lot of law suits and a lot of other avenues through which some deviant insolvency practitioners can try and hide.
Madam Speaker, I would also hope that the Hon Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs can consider involving the Council of Estate Administrators in itself, in amending the code because I really commend that there will be a code of ethics in Clause 25 (h), where it provides that the Hon. Minister may, by
Statutory Instrument, amend the code of ethics. My concern is that the absence of the council that has been created by this in the formulation of the code of ethics will assist the Hon. Minister to come up with a code of ethics that really hits the nail on the head and deals with errand insolvency practitioners.
Madam Speaker, allow me to speak somewhat on the issue of charging fees in order for people to access the Register. I am of the view that we can achieve the very noble purposes of this Bill without burdening members of the public with the expense of paying money to look at a public record. I agree with the members of the public that were saying; to get a photocopy of a record, one would need not to meet the cost and burden the State. But to merely inspect the record, I believe it is something that is unduly onerous to our suffering public. We already pay taxes and the money that we pay in taxes should be sufficient in order to pay those people who man those registries. I hope that there can be a de-link between the inspection and the actual copying. In any event, I do not believe that the Government can earn very much revenue by making people pay to inspect records. I am sure revenue can be raised in other ways but in a way, that does not burden the public necessarily. It undermines the right to freedom of information and also tends to shield State craft and public information from the public which would help if it was open.
Madam Speaker, I also just want to commend the Hon. Vice
President who is the Minister of Justice for introducing the framework approach to the practice of insolvency administration. I want to believe that it will make Zimbabwe hold its head high in international best practice regarding insolvency practice.
I would like to conclude by also underpinning the recommendation that the issues of sexual harassment must also find their way into being mentioned in the framework approach in the code of conduct of insolvency practitioners because it is a rampant practice that happens, that is not mentioned but it would really enhance the ethics because all the other issues that are mentioned in the code of conduct are about a very high degree of personal probity and personal integrity and issues like that should also be dealt with. With that Madam Speaker, I hope that this very encouraging Bill, receives the support of the House and that our esteemed Hon. Vice President will indeed consider the suggestions and recommendations that are also made by Hon. Members in the spirit of indeed improving the ease of doing business.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee. I would wish to say that we will take note of the report. I see that in some areas, there are areas of merit which may require me as Minister of Justice to look at it and see whether they can come on board. It is not a guarantee that they will come on board but I am considering the possibility of considering the possibility to bring them on board –
[Laughter.]-
Secondly, I thank the contributors, Hon. Chasi and Hon. Majome for their useful contributions. They have also made very useful observations to the Bill and I will have to consider those recommendations and at the next sitting, I will be able to make my final decision as to what it is that I can take on board to improve the Bill because the intention is to do the best for our country. I think everybody’s spirit and intention is that we must have a Bill that serves us and also taking on board the best practices of the world into our legislative framework.
Madam Speaker, I am being guided that whatever amendments I am to bring about can come at the Committee Stage after taking into account the useful contributions from Hon. Members.
With those remarks, I now move that the Estates Administrators Amendment Bill, [H.B.8, 2016] be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 7th June, 2017.
SECOND READING:
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 1) BILL
[H.B. 1, 2017]
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 1) Bill, (H.B.
1, 2017).
Question again proposed.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I rise to debate on the report by the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
INTRODUCTION
On 3rd January, 2017 under the General Notice 1/2017,
Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No.1) Bill [H.B 1, 2017] was published in terms of Section 328 (3) of the Constitution.
The Bill seeks to explicitly subordinate the Labour Court and the Administrative Court to the High Court. This will be achieved by amending Sections 172 (1) (a) and 173 (1) (a) of the Constitution, which currently provides that the Labour Court and the Administrative Court are headed by a ‘Judge President’.
The Bill seeks to amend, Section 174 of the Constitution by the addition of subsection (2) that explicitly subordinates the two courts to the High Court but maintains the equality of basic conditions of service between judges of the High Court and judges of the two subordinate courts.
The Bill also seeks to change the procedure outlined in Section 180 of the Constitution; providing for the appointment of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President, as well as that of appointing the heads of the Labour Court and Administrative Court
(now to be designated as ‘senior judges’).
2. METHODOLOGY
Pursuant to provisions of Section 328(4) of the Constitution, the committee invited members of the public to express their views on the proposed Bill in public meetings and through written submissions after convening meetings in Harare, Bulawayo, Chinhoyi, Gwanda, Gweru,
Hwange, Lupane, Marondera, Masvingo, Mount Darwin, and Mutare.
Other than the countrywide tours and written submissions, the Committee also piloted a radio public hearing that was hosted by Star
3. ATTENDANCE BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
Statistics of attendance to the public hearings by members of the public were as follows:
Venue |
Date |
Male |
Female |
Total Attendance |
Harare |
17 February 2017 |
62 |
91 |
153 |
Gweru |
20 February 2017 |
79 |
45 |
124 |
Masvingo |
20 February 2017 |
53 |
47 |
100 |
Gwanda |
21 February 2017 |
39 |
39 |
78 |
Marondera |
21 February 2017 |
141 |
117 |
258 |
Lupane |
22 February 2017 |
31 |
23 |
54 |
Mount Darwin |
22 February 2017 |
44 |
9 |
53 |
Bulawayo |
23 February 2017 |
85 |
69 |
154 |
Chinhoyi |
23 February 2017 |
67 |
236 |
303 |
Hwange |
24 February 2017 |
60 |
33 |
93 |
Mutare |
24 February 2017 |
51 |
26 |
77 |
Grand Total |
|
712 |
735 |
1447 |
- 4. SUBMISSIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
4.1 Short Title
The Short Title is not consistent with the title of the Constitution. Members suggested that the title of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No.20) Act 2013 should be amended to read Constitution of Zimbabwe, 2013 so that this amendment becomes No. 1.
4.2 Interpretation
No issues.
4.3 Amendment of Section 172, 173 and 174 of the
Constitution
Members of the public expressed the need to prioritise alignment of laws to the Constitution, rather than amending it in its infancy.
Members of the public queried the motivation of the amendment. In respect of the subordination of the Labour Court and the Administrative Court to the High Court, many submitted that the clarification could have been easily achieved by amending the Acts of Parliament providing for the exercise of jurisdiction by the High Court, Labour Court and Administrative Court, or issuing practice directions by the High Court without amending the Constitution. Some members felt that this amendment would increase legal costs to citizens litigating in the two courts.
However, there was another view that the amendment seeks to clarify the current position which subordinates the Labour Court and the Administrative Court to the High Court. Nothing, save for the wording of the Constitution is being changed. Some said the Constitution should not be amended. There was a view that opposed the amendment, thinking it is the ursuping the powers of the public.
4.4 Amendment to Section 180 of the Constitution
4.4.1 The proposed amendment was viewed as taking away gains made by the Constitution regarding the appointment of judicial officers. The view was that much concentration of power in the President erodes judicial independence. While noting that there is provision for consultation with the Judicial Service Commission, this consultation was viewed as academic since the Commission’s position can be ignored without any adverse consequences to the President’s position. This was so because the amendment provides that where the President proceeds against the advice of the Commission, he or she shall inform the Senate, but the course of action that the Senate has to take is not defined, neither is the purpose of such a referral.
4.4.2 The amendment was also seen as contravening certain provisions of the Constitution, in particular Section 3 (2) (e) on observance of the principle of separation of powers, good governance, rule of law and Section 164(2) on the independence of the Judiciary and the attendant obligations on the State, through legislative and other measures that require the state to protect the courts to ensure their independence, impartiality, dignity and effectiveness.
4.4.3 An alternative view saw this amendment as necessary in that the JSC in its present composition cannot sit and adjudicate over the appointment of its head as they are clearly conflicted. The Constitution in its current format creates a situation where the outgoing Chief Justice interviews his/her successor, thus indirectly influencing the judicial system even in his/her absence, a situation viewed as undesirable. The outgoing Chief Justice, having worked with almost all the prospective candidates has his/her own biases and preferences because of his/her inherent human nature. As such, his involvement in the interviews clearly creates an uneven ground.
4.4.4 In addition, the other view was that leaving the primary selection of the judicial system entirely in the hands of unelected people compromises democratic principles as the Constitution clearly states that judicial authority derives from the people. It was noted that Kenya and Zimbabwe are the only two countries in the world where public interviews are conducted for the appointment of the Chief Justice and those countries that developed the jurisprudence of judicial independence do not subscribe to the current method.
4.5 Amendment of section 181 and the 6th Schedule of the Constitution
No issues.
5. COMMITTEE FINDINGS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS
5.1 The Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No.20) Act, 2013 implies that the 2013 Constitution is the twentieth amendment to the Lancaster House Constitution. In the same vein, the Constitution of
Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 1) Act, 2016 implies that there is another
Act that is being amended which is different from the 2013 Constitution.
There is a need to rename the 2013 Constitution to read as ‘Constitution of Zimbabwe Act, 2013’.
5.2 Regarding the subordination of the Labour Court and the Administrative Court to the High Court, the submission that the supposed conflict may be erased by amending the Acts of Parliament providing for the exercise of jurisdiction by the High Court, Labour
Court and Administrative Court, or issuing practice directives by the High Court without amending the Constitution. The reason being that Acts of Parliament are subservient to the Constitution, hence their amendment does not cure a constitutional deficit. It should be the other way round.
5.3 The amendments as they pertain to Section 172-174 of the
Constitution and paragraph 18(3) of the Sixth Schedule are largely administrative and seeking to bring about clarity to grey areas. The
Committee therefore is in agreement with the amendment since it simply seeks to clarify the current position, which subordinates the Labour Court and the Administrative Court to the High Court. There is need for clarity on the remuneration for judges that will come after the amendment.
5.4 The other issue that the public expressed was the need to urgently align laws to the Constitution rather than rush to amend the
Constitution. The Committee noted that even though this didn’t apply to this Bill, it was worth noting and urges the Executive to prioritise the alignment of laws to the Constitution.
5.5 Regarding the erosion of judicial independence, the committee noted that judicial independence is a function of many elements and not entirely dependent on appointment procedures. Current practice is not settled on any gold standard for the appointment of judges and the legal practice in many countries, including those that developed the jurisprudence on judicial independence advocate some involvement of the elected representatives of the people in the judicial appointment process. The point to take out of this diversity is the acknowledgement that there is no best system to appoint judges, however novel a given jurisdiction`s system may appear to be. Accordingly, little if anything arises out of the process(es) used to appoint judges. The Committee noted that the responsibility of the judiciary to interpret the laws of the land must vest in individuals who are qualified, professionals, fit and proper.
To the extent that the proposed amendment does not seek to take away from these cardinal baseline requirements, the committee files no objections in this regard. Crucially, the Committee notes that constitutional and other legislative provisions that guarantee judicial independence after appointment greatly advance and secure the integrity of the Bench from all interference. Most importantly are provisions that insulate judges from arbitrary dismissal and also guarantee their remuneration from control and influence by the Executive. The committee notes that whilst the constitution makes reference to the independence of the judiciary, it should be noted that as an arm of state, the judiciary is an independent, yet interrelated and interdependent sphere of the state architecture. It cannot exist as an island or in a vacuum. The need for an interplay between these spheres of the State, to the extent it does not compromise the mandate and integrity of each other, is recommended. That aside, the system of representative democracy which subsists in Zimbabwe is being negated by the current procedure, which leaves the selection of such influential office bearers who define the direction and policy of the country to unelected individuals. It is settled that judicial authority derives from the people, hence the need to change the status quo.
As noted before, appointed members of the judiciary should be professionals, qualified, fit and proper. These provisions remain entrenched in the Constitution and the President in making any appointments, should be guided by them, and those appointed should live to the honour of the office to which they are appointed. In addition, appointed judicial officers bear loyalty and allegiance to the Constitution and to their oath of office, and not to processes through which they were appointed. However appointed, a judge should be a man or woman of integrity, and if they live short of standards expected of them, corrective measures as provided for in the Constitution should be activated.
5.6 The Committee further took note of the view that an outgoing Chief Justice cannot chair interviews for his or her successor for the simple reason that he or she is conflicted. Having worked with almost all the prospective candidates, this diminishes the transparency of the whole process in that certain prejudices and biases against some candidates will largely influence the final decision. As such, the outgoing Chief
Justice’s involvement in the selection process vitiates the principles of transparency which the same bench seeks to enhance.
In the same vein having the JSC conduct these interviews for the
Chief Justice, entails having juniors interviewing their future boss. While on the face of it, it may appear as a noble process, it can create potential conflicts and breed a system of patronage which will contaminate the bench. Simple governance dictates that an independent person or tribunal should adjudicate on the selection process as the bench is exposed to the risk of being indirectly influenced by the outgoing Chief Justice long after he is gone.
5.7 The Committee however, notes that the new Section 180(3) needs some clarification as to the function of the senate after being informed about the decision of the President being at variance with the
JSC’s recommendation. In its present format, the notification, according to the committee is only academic. It is the Committee’s recommendation that instead of informing the Senate, the National
Assembly must be informed.
6.0 CONCLUSION
It is the Committee’s general conclusion that the amendments as presented, together with our recommendations be adopted by parliament.
I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. It is
with a heavy heart that I rise to debate this Bill. It is really unfortunate and I want to say that it is a sad development that within a short space of time, the Hon. Vice President has seen it fit to bring a Bill which I will respectfully submit is retrogressive and is taking us backwards. We had come up with very progressive provisions, which I believe are within the spirit of the new Constitution, which enhance values of transparency, good governance and which promote the doctrine of the separation of powers. I believe that this particular Bill Madam Speaker, is the antithesis of those values and I will explain why I made those submissions.
First and foremost, I also want to say that the current environment has been poisoned by a lot of falsehood, misrepresentations and one of these is that Section 180 is an MDC clause. That, with due respect, is nonsensical and I will explain why I say so. Madam Speaker, some of the members in this august House were part of the Constitution making process. They were in COPAC and I want to point out that we have had two processes where the people of Zimbabwe have been widely consulted and at this point in time, I would also want to make reference to the Constitutional Commission of 1999. When we embarked on this process Madam Speaker, that Commission went to all the provinces in
Zimbabwe. I would like to outline what came out of those consultations.
It was clear that the people of Zimbabwe were very clear on this aspect that they want to have a Judiciary which is selected by an independent Judicial Services Commission. This has come out not once, but twice, through the Review Commission of 1999 and also through the COPAC process. The Constitution Commission asked several questions to the people of Zimbabwe and I would like to give the responses which are very clear. In Bulawayo, on page 8 of the report, it was quite clear that the people of Bulawayo said they wanted an independent Judicial Services Commission. It should be set up to appoint judges and magistrates with the approval of Parliament.
In Harare, on page 11 again across the board, they expressed similar sentiments. In Manicaland on page 19, similar sentiments were expressed and this was replicated in Mashonaland Central, Mashonaland West, Mashonaland East, Masvingo, Matabeleland North, Matabeleland
South and in the Midlands with the exception of one province which is Matabeleland South, the people were very clear that what they wanted was to have the Judicial Services Commission to select all judges. This is what came out in 1999.
However, for reasons best known to themselves, the Constitutional Commission then came up with provisions which were going to retain the power to appoint judges in the hands of the President. Fortunately, that draft was rejected by the people of Zimbabwe. What had been put in that draft Constitution was contrary to the views which had been expressed by the people of Zimbabwe?
I would like to come to the COPAC exercise. First and foremost, I would like to reiterate that this provision which relates to the appointment of judges was actually agreed by the majority of the people of Zimbabwe and it was quite clear that it was not a contentious issue. There was broad consensus. When it came to the question as to how judges should be appointed, it was actually a very important talking point where the people were widely consulted. The overwhelming view was that we must have appointments which are based on merit. This is what came out.
We have over 70 outreach teams and most of these teams were led by MPs in the last Parliament. When they went out, they had rapporteurs and representatives of political parties and there was general agreement by all the three political parties which were represented in the Constitution making process and that this was to the effect that an Independent Judicial Services Commission should choose all the judges and this is what came out.
When the actual process of writing the Constitution was embarked upon, there were several areas where there were some disputes and these were the parked issues. If those who were in COPAC want to be honest, this issue relating to the appointment of judges was not one of the contentious issues. It was not one of the parked issues and where there were gaps which were referred to the Committee of seven which my colleague here Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga was a member and ZANU
PF was represented by the then Minister of Justice, Hon. Patrick Chinamasa and Hon. Nicholas Goche. The current speaker was a technical advisor to that Committee – this issue of the appointment of judges was not one of those where there was a gap or further negotiations to be carried out.
The point I just want to make is that let us not support our arguments by downright lies and say that this was a provision which was brought in by the opposition or the MDCs, it was not. There was that consensus and that agreement. As a matter of fact, I want to put to rest this nonsensical argument that this was a product of some compromise.
It was what the people of Zimbabwe said. It is what the people want that we must have appointment to such positions to be based on merit and that is reflected in the actual provisions of our Constitution if you go to page 9. It is very clear and for the benefit of all Hon. Members and just as a reminder to the Hon. Vice President, who is very familiar with that provision, I would like to read it out and it says:
“Appointments to offices in all tiers of Government including Government institutions, agencies, Government controlled entities and other public enterprises must be made primarily on the basis of merit”
I would like to say that the time has come for us to move towards meritocracy where you have the best candidates or the best qualified persons. Even if you look at the provisions relating to the judiciary, it actually speaks to having judges to continue appointing themselves with developments in the field of the law which are taking place elsewhere and this is what will come out when we have got a public process where interviews are carried out, judges are interviewed by their peers to demonstrate that apart from the paper qualifications that they may have, the aspirants are the best persons, the most suitable persons for the job.
What this Bill is seeking to do is to replace this transparent and open system with something which is opaque or mucky where you have a scenario where this power to appoint is concentrated in the hands of one individual. It is really unfortunate and this has led to sentiments that perhaps the mover of the current Bill is envisaging a situation where he would be in a position to make those appointments. I want to remind everyone in this august House –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections]-
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, I strongly object to the insinuation by Hon. Gonese that I am amending the Bill with a view to be appointing persons in future. That is not correct.
HON. GONESE: That is not what I said. I said that there are some sentiments. Before you make your ruling, I just wanted to clarify that I did not say so. I can reiterate what I said. I said that there are people who have expressed sentiments to that effect. It is not me. I was simply pointing out what has come out in some quarters and not from me.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Gonese. I think
you are saying one and the same thing because if there are some people who are saying that, you have put it across to this House and the Hon. Vice President was responding to that. That is not correct. I think he has corrected that and you can proceed.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I have
left that aspect. What I simply wanted to point out is that what I think is desirable and what is really best for our country is to have the provisions which are in the current Constitution whereby the President or Head of State plays a part and the Judicial Services Commission also plays its
part.
The second misrepresentation which has been made is that the current process sidelines the Head of State and President. This again is a lie. The current process, firstly, it gives the President a chance in terms of the provisions which allow members of the public and the President himself to make nominations. So, the first opportunity for the President to select or to have his or her preferred candidate to participate is to nominate. So the President is allowed to nominate whoever he feels is the best candidate for any of those vacancies – either the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice or the Judge President of the High Court. So that is the first opportunity. Then when the nominations are done, Madam Speaker, all the candidates come for interviews and this is in the public domain.
I am very happy that the last time it was actually on national television so that the people of Zimbabwe can see for themselves who is bright, who is brilliant, who understands the concepts of the judiciary and so on and so forth and then the people themselves, will be able to see those candidates who are entirely unsuitable because they are persons who may be qualified in terms of paper because the provision simply says that you have been qualified to practice as a legal practitioner for a period of 12 years. Some people might have passed through law school, but they are not people who are able to execute the duties, who do not have the qualities required for this particular job and the people of Zimbabwe can see for themselves that this person is a dunderhead, that this person does not qualify so that when it comes to short listing, the persons who are conducting the interviews are able to sift through the names. So, that is one of the reasons why I believe that the current system is correct in my view.
The other lie which has been propagated is that you are going to have a situation where juniors are going to be interviewing their seniors and that has been propagated by The Herald and some quarters. This, with due respect, is really nonsensical. If you look at the composition of the Judicial Services Commission, you have got the Chief Justice, his deputy, you have got the Secretary of the Judicial Services Commission and you also have three legal practitioners who are nominated by the Law Society of Zimbabwe. As we speak, when we look at some of the members who constituted that panel, they actually have got some senior legal practitioners who went to school with some of the judges who are sitting in the Constitutional Court and those cannot be, by any stretch of the imagination, called juniors, but even if that were true, Madam Speaker, it does not follow that your peers cannot interview you or even your juniors for that matter.
If you look at what happens in life, you look at boards of directors, they actually choose who is going to be their chairperson. Actually, you have shareholders appointing their boards of directors. Even if you come closer to politics, they actually have the citizens of Zimbabwe electing their President who happens to become their senior, so to speak, when that person is elected into that high office. So, at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with it.
So, what is wrong with having legal practitioners interviewing a person who is going to become the Chief Justice? There is nothing wrong with that and I believe that what we are now proposing is to have this power concentrated in an individual and the Bill itself is very dangerous because it does not even say that the persons who are going to be selected must be selected from the current crop of judges. So, you can actually have somebody from outside who has never practiced law but who has been qualified to practice law all of a sudden becoming the Chief Justice. That, with due respect Mr. Speaker, is undesirable.
At least if you had a situation where you say, okay, the persons to be appointed must be selected from the current crop of judges, it might be better although it is not good, but at least it is preferable to having a situation where it is just open ended and you can have just somebody picked from the street who happens to have acquired a law degree 20 years ago and because of their political persuasion, that person is the person who is going to be selected to become a Chief Justice. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that we should not support the Bill as it stands because at the end of the day, it is not going to take us forward, but it is really going to take us backwards.
Mr. Speaker, we would like to say that some other examples have been given. If you look at the example of America, you will find that the people of Zimbabwe were very clear and the examples or justifications which had been made, for example, is that the President of America chooses his or her own bench. It is not even true.
The Kenyans were the pioneers of this system where you have got public interviews and we would have wanted a situation where Zimbabwe is taken as an example, as we are actually one of those countries where other countries are going to emulate and say that Kenya and Zimbabwe, they have got a situation where public interviews are conducted. But now what are we doing? We are going backwards. Even in America, when they select their judges, this is with the approval of the Senate. At their very least, Mr. Speaker, I would submit that we should not have a scenario where we just inform the Senate which then has no power whatsoever. Even the Judicial Services Commission would then be ignored.
[Time Limit]
HON. MUDZURI: I propose that the Hon. Member’s time be extended.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I object because he is saying nonsense – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. May the
Hon. Member withdraw the word nonsense.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I will withdraw the word
nonsense, but I object.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for the opportunity to also add my voice to this amendment. I want to say, Hon.
Speaker, I have no problems with the...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Sibanda. After yourself, I had not seen that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order please. I have not finished talking. I had not recognised Hon. Mandipaka. After yourself, then there will be Hon.
Mandipaka.
HON. MUDZURI: Members of the Committee will start debating and then we can have others. That is the procedure – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. Honourable,
you are the vice president of a party, please.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I had started saying that I have got no problems with the amendments to Sections 171 to 174. In my view, I see these amendments as reasonable, however I have got problems with the substitution of Section 180 of the
Constitution and my problems, Hon. Speaker, are basically premised on the following.
Firstly Hon. Speaker, the preamble to our Constitution actually summarises the aspirations and desires of Zimbabweans to entrench democracy, good governance, transparency, accountable governance and the rule of law in the country. Also, Section 3 of the Constitution which lists the founding values and principles of the Constitution; especially on Section 3 (1), paragraphs (b),(c) and (h), which provides that our nation is founded upon principles of rule of law, respecting of fundamental human rights and freedoms and good governance. Section 3 (2) explains what the concept of good governance is and in that explanation, what comes out very clearly is that the doctrine of separation of powers is an important aspect of good governance in this country.
Now, when I look at this amendment, I am seeing about two things. I am seeing the importation of the ZANU PF Constitution into the national Constitution, where we now want to adopt the concept of one centre of power in the national Constitution as it is in the ZANU PF
Constitution – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
It is my view Hon. Speaker, that when Zimbabweans say they aspire to have a Constitution that respects separation of powers; they are simply saying that they do not want State power to be concentrated in the hands of one man. I appreciate that in ZANU PF they want one man to have all the power to do as they wish because it is their own concept that they want one centre of power – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – However, Zimbabweans have said that very clearly that they do not want a one centre of power in the manner that their country is governed – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – They aspire that there should be separation of powers. The concept of separation of powers Hon. Speaker is to ensure that there is no abuse of State power by one person or by one group of people. What we are seeing in this amendment – before I even go to the amendment, the current section as it stands is actually bad enough for the doctrine of separation of powers in that it gives so much leeway to the President to play as he wants in order to get a person appointed to the position of Judge.
If you look at Section 180 (2) (b), which was cited by Hon. Gonese, it gives the President an equal opportunity to nominate a person to be appointed to the position of Judge. Obviously, once that nomination occurs; looking at the fact that most of the appointees or those that select the people that will go for interviews are members of the Judicial Services Commission, it is likely that a nominee of the
President from the beginning will likely go to the interviews. After the interviews, the nominee of the President is also likely to be one of the three that will be recommended to be appointed by the President.
So, as it is, it is already bad enough for separation of powers.
Now, to try and remove entirely the role of the Judicial Services
Commission in the appointment of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and the Judge President, what it means is that the Executive will be entirely in control of the Judiciary sector of the State. Also, what it means is that the independence of the judiciary will be serious assaulted by this amendment if it is approved by this august House.
I therefore, submit that for respect of the desires and aspirations of
Zimbabweans – I think there is no compelling reason. I listened to the Chairperson of the Committee on Justice when he was talking about the compelling reasons for the amendment of Section 180. Hon. Speaker, you cannot say that because you think that members of the Judicial Services Commission are conflicted in interviewing and nominating three people to the President for the appointment of one of them to become Judge, therefore they are seriously conflicted more than having one individual in the office of the President to do all the appointments and selection from the beginning up to the end? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I think if there is any conflict that is there, I think the conflict that is in the Judicial Services Commission is far much better and lighter compared to a scenario where one man or one woman who happens to occupy the office of the President is going literally to select all members of the Judicial Services Commission, especially these three critical offices.
When we are talking about the Chief Justice, he is literally the Head of the Judiciary in Zimbabwe. The Deputy Chief Justice is the
Deputy Head and the Judge President is the Head of the High Court. Therefore, when we are having these critical offices being appointed by one person, you are basically saying that these people should owe their allegiance to that one person who occupies the office of the President. Therefore, the independence of the Judiciary will totally disappear in that kind of a set up Hon. Speaker.
It is my view that this amendment is an affront to democracy and good governance. Therefore, it is unnecessary at this point of development of our State that we should be seen to amend such an important section which is actually supposed to entrench good governance and democracy in a country, and then we begin to hammer it so that we can compromise the independence of the Judiciary. What it means is that in any cases of dispute that might arise, be it cases of dispute in elections; we do not expect a Judiciary that has been appointed by a key player and interested party to then adjudicate fairly in a dispute that involves other parties. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
It is my view that this amendment, honestly speaking is not desirable. I know that the previous speaker cautioned Hon. Gonese when he indicated the sentiments that are there outside. Honestly speaking, those are the sentiments that are currently prevailing that the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is preparing his own carpet, so that when he comes in, those are sentiments that are outside.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Sibanda.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I take serious objection to the Hon.
Member’s utterances that I am amending the Constitution for personal reasons. That is not true; I object to such insinuation by the Hon.
Member.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, this Chair also
is not happy. May you withdraw that part of your statement?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, these are sentiments that are coming from the people unless Hon. Speaker, I thought that my constitutional duty is to represent people of Binga North.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, when the Chair
says withdraw, can you withdraw that?
HON. P. D. DIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, with all due respect, I
think that before I withdraw, it is important for me to indicate that these are sentiments …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, please can you
withdraw that or else I will ask you to sit down.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I think as a matter of principle, you would rather order me to sit down than to withdraw something that came from Binga because that is a sentiment that came from the people…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please, you may sit
down. Take your seat.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Following the
debate by Hon. Sibanda and Hon. Gonese, I thought that I should also add my voice. I do not believe Hon. Speaker that the doctrine of separation of powers translates into usurpation of the powers that a President of any country should have. If we interpret the doctrine of separation of powers in that respect, then I think we stand guided. I do not believe that we should usurp what we expect of a President of a country to do.
I am saying so because judges, commanders or whoever official do not operate in isolation. Any country has one leader and I am surprised to hear one Member from the opposite side talking about the one centre of power – it does not make any relevance in this debate. What we are basically saying Hon. Speaker Sir, is that this amendment is coming at the right hour, having practically seen what has taken place in this country. So, laws are made by people and they are not cast in stones. We can change our laws as and when we see it necessary and fit to do so. So, I think that constitutionally like what we are doing in this august House, it is the right thing to do. If we have seen that we have a problem practically on the ground, there is no reason why we should not amend our own laws because they are our own laws.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I heard Hon. Gonese saying, what is wrong about the JSC appointing or interviewing judges or the Chief Justice or whoever and I would want to ask a similar question - what wrong is there when we let our own President appoint our own Chief Justice. There is nothing wrong about that. I am saying there is nothing wrong because we have often heard the opposite side teaching us to follow the democracy in America, Britain and these other countries. If the Americans are able to appoint their own Chief Justice, why can we not be able to appoint our own Chief Justice?
Mr. Speaker Sir, when the Chairperson of the Committee Hon. Ziyambi presented the report, he said Kenya and Zimbabwe are the only exceptions in this world and why can we not join the other countries in the world that make it a fact or a point that the President of a country appoints a Chief Justice. So, that is my submission Hon. Speaker. I am saying; this is the most desirable amendment coming at the right hour because of the experience that we had in the past. Thank you.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir
for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. First and foremost, I would like to thank the Chairperson of the Committee for taking note of certain technical issues that he raised in terms of the amendment of the Constitution to say that we should not repeat ourselves like an amendment of an amendment. Those are technical issues that I have also observed but I need to come to the issue that is contentious here.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no Constitution in this world that is perfect – nowhere in this world. Constitutions are made and when developments do happen, there are certain observations that are made by the people because the society itself is dynamic and when certain things are noted by the public or the State, there is need for us to amend the Constitution. This process that the Minister or Vice President is doing is in accordance with natural justices. I go on to say that I want it to be very clear even to the opposition that this Constitution was a compromise –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- It is.
I want to say this because I have gone through the Constitution several times and there are areas where the Constitution contradicts itself. We are saying that these areas need to be clarified and need to be amended with a review and amendments of certain Ministries taking note of what is it that people who crafted this Constitution wanted to say. I would want to go further and say, the process of interviews is not the best method of selecting the best candidate. I want to say this because it is a snap and one of the hurdles in the process of recruitment and selection; and the Constitution just pinned itself on that and said this is the best method - it is not.
How about performance rating? Even this panel - did it rate the judges to see who is performing better because these are issues in recruitment and selection? You just do not say you come to a meeting for 20 minutes, you assess a person and you say that is the best candidate – no. We still need to improve the Constitution and make sure that we have hurdles for judges and people in high offices so that we are in a position to say this is the right candidate. For the present moment, we are doing this as a compromise so that we move forward but that is not the best method in my view.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the issues that Hon. Gonese was highlighting are things that were consumed by the Constitution but we are saying that this Constitution still needs to be improved. So in summary Hon.
Speaker Sir, I am saying we need to proceed by amending the
Constitution – not only in this area, there are certain other areas that we are going to address as you will see with time. I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I had asked the Chief Whip to adjourn the debate. I therefore move that the debate do now adjourn –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. The Vice
President is the owner of the motion, therefore accordingly, he is allowed within his powers to adjourn the debate.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is the point of order?
HON. GONESE: My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, is in terms of the Standing Orders. Our Standing Orders allow, if he has moved for the adjournment of the debate, it is allowed – if you look at your notes Mr. Speaker, it asks, is there any debate to the motion - because that is a motion. An adjournment motion is like any other motion and is subject to debate. You can check for advice from the Clerks-at-the-Table. That is in accordance with the Standing Orders. If a motion is moved for adjournment, you ask for debate and we can make our representations.
Mr. Speaker, I have stood up and I want to debate that motion – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It is within my rights to debate the motion first before the adjournment
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please.
HON. GONESE: The rules Mr. Speaker, allow for debate first. This a motion and a motion for adjournment is a motion Mr. Speaker. It is a motion for adjournment. Before we go to the numbers, I debate the motion.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Gonese. Hon.
Gonese, why do you always want to cause some noise – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order please. You are the Chief Whip of the Opposition and I think it is always nice for you to probably liaise with the Chair if you have an objection of that nature – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order please.
HON. GONESE: I will be very brief Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much for the opportunity you have given me, I was going to request, in debating the motion for adjournment, that procedurally Mr. Speaker, when the mover of a motion wants to adjourn, the mover of the motion seeks adjournment of the debate. However, Members have got their rights to debate that motion. In debating the motion, my first point is, the Chair had recognised Hon. Muderedzwa and Hon. Majome in that
order.
My second point would be, this is a very important debate and we have anticipated to start it at the beginning of the Session. However, we do appreciate that the Hon. Vice President might have other commitments. I also believe that in the spirit of consultation, which we normally do, if the Hon. Vice President wanted to adjourn the debate, we have got two sides in this august House and it was appropriate Mr.
Speaker for my colleague to indicate to me that this is the situation. We were caught unawares and that is the reason why you then find us behaving in this way. If we had done things in consultation, this might not have happened. I want the other side to appreciate that fact.
Lastly Mr. Speaker, I just respectfully ask that we allow the Hon. Member who had been nominated to be the last person to debate and after that we can have the adjournment without any problem and we can continue the debate tomorrow – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Gonese, when you came here, you asked me for an explanation that you have done and I accept that, but for you to go further and say that I allow the Hon. Majome to debate is something else. Can I ask the debate to be adjourned please?
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th June, 2017.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, SECONDED BY HON. MUKWANGWARIWA, the House adjourned at Two Minutes past
Five o’clock p.m.