PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 4th October, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS AND IMPLEMENTATION REGISTER
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move the motion standing in my name
That this House;
RECOGNIZING that in 1999, Parliament adopted the final report of the Parliamentary Reform Committee (PRC); and one of the recommendations contained in the report was that of establishing a Code of Conduct and Ethics and Implementation Register for Members of
Parliament;
ACKNOWLEDGING that the Constitution of Zimbabwe, in section 198 provides for the enactment of an Act of Parliament which must provide measures to enforce the provisions of principles of public administration and leadership, including measures to:―
- require public officers to make regular disclosures of their assets;
- establish codes of conduct to be observed by public officers; and
- provide for the disciplining of persons who contravene the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Constitution or any code of conduct or standard so established.
NOTING that the recommendation by the PRC and the requirement by the Constitution culminated in Standing Order No. 48 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the Senate;
COGNISANT of the approval of the Code of Conduct and Ethics and Implementation Register by the Committee on Standing Rules and
Orders on 21st of April, 2016;
NOW THEREFORE, resolves, that the Code of Conduct and
Ethics and the Implementation Register be adopted.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Madam President, in 2008, the Seventh
Parliament of Zimbabwe adopted a Code of Conduct and Ethics of Members of Parliament. The implementation of the Code could, however, not take off as the register was not in place. A register for the declaration of assets has since been prepared, considered and adopted by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders.
The two documents were circulated to all Members of Parliament in December, 2016 for their comments. Comments submitted were considered and a workshop was held for the presentation of the Code and the Register. The Code of Conduct and Ethics for Members of
Parliament is an official document which regulates the behaviour of Members of Parliament by asserting what is considered to be acceptable behaviour and what is not.
Purpose
- To establish standards of correct behaviour which the Members of Parliament propose to observe as elected representatives serving their country in its highest democratic institution in accordance with the dignity of the institution in which they serve in.
- The Code-
- Has been developed for the guidance of all Members of Parliament.
- Sets out ethical standards and principles to assist Members in observing the expected standards of conduct in public office and to act as a benchmark against which that conduct can be measured.
- It contains the rules concerning the additional income, gifts and personal interests that must be declared by Members of
Parliament published in the Register of Members’ Interests.
- Is not designed to be exhaustive, and there will be occasions where Members will find it necessary to adopt more stringent norms of conduct in order to protect the public interest, and to enhance public confidence and trust.
Members of Parliament are expected to promote and support this
Code by leadership and example.
Madam President, the two documents were circulated and the rest of the things that are in this code, I am sure that Members of Parliament are aware of them but I am now going to touch on what the Code contains.
What the Code Contains
The Code is a five part document that looks at various matters that relate to the manner in which Members of Parliament are ethically expected to behave, some highlights of its content include:
Purpose of the Code
This section was introduced in order to provide an informed description of the purpose of the Code it aims.
- To create public trust and confidence in public representatives and to protect the integrity of Parliament; and
- To ensure certain standards of conduct amongst parliamentarians in an endeavour to increase public confidence and curb corruption.
Like I said Madam President, other things will be covered by other Members, that is the scope of the conduct, the financial interests, confidentiality of the code and many others. I think I should come to the conclusion so that I leave something for other Members to debate.
Conclusion
Whether the Code is written or communicate informally, a Code of Conduct defines behaviour and expectations for those that it governs and in this case, it is Members of Parliament. While codes may not prevent inappropriate behaviour or fraud, they do provide Members with legal and ethical standard that will influence their performance and commitment to Parliament. Madam President, I believe that the Code of
Conduct and Ethics will be adopted in this House as a Code for all Members of Parliament. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion of which the Hon. Members have read the Code of Conduct and they understand what it means because we have to know what is contained in the Code of Conduct.
Madam President, without much ado, I will go on to the Scope of the Code.
The section covering the Scope of the application of the Code was introduced in order to clarify the extent to which the Code applied. The section indicates that the application of the Code includes, all Members of Parliament and those who are part of the Executive notwithstanding the fact that the Executive is subject to other roles. This broad approach is aimed at developing a Code that provides a tool for the public’s scrutiny and one which enhances accountability of the public official. This section is in line with the widely accepted standards of Parliaments in other jurisdictions.
Financial interests
The section which provides for the disclosure of financial interests of a Member “direct or indirectly”, was extended to include those that cause a direct benefit to the immediate family or any business partner of that Member. This was done in order to promote good governance and to ensure that Members advance public interest as required by the Constitution.
Madam President, this section prevents Members from pressing for financial benefits in the conduct of parliamentary business as their involvement would be regarded as exerting undue influence and as such, contrary to public interests. This provision seeks to restrict Members from influencing decisions in Parliament which would benefit only those areas which they have a financial interest in. However, even where Members are prevented from certain types of lobbying, there are grey areas and this is because there is difficulty in defining what amounts to a conflict of interest in any particular set of circumstances and it has to be accepted that it is impossible for the Code to foresee and cater for all possible eventualities which may arise or be diversed by human ingenuity. The ultimate goal is to identify the potential to conflict and ensure public trust in Parliament and avoid any implication that Members use their positions for private enrichment.
Therefore, what can only be done is to provide a guideline which prohibits the promising, offering or giving to a Member whether directly or indirectly, of an undue advantage for the benefit of a Member or another person or entity in order for that, the Member acts or refrain from acting in the exercise of his or her official duties.
Confidentiality Clause
Madam President, on the confidentiality clause; this clause was inserted in order to promote compliance by the Members. This came after the realisation that Members might be discouraged to disclose information relating to their financial interests because they want to protect their privacy. Therefore, in order to promote compliance with the Code, strict measures will be put in place to protect the confidentiality of the information provided by the members. The clause clearly spells out who has access to the register, specifically the confidential part. Access is limited to the Clerk and his/her staff (only when performing their duties or responsibilities in terms of this Code.)
The mischief that this section seeks to address is that appreciation of abuse of office can be as damaging as the actual abuse of power. There is therefore need to provide provisions which protect the integrity of Parliament through the aspect of transparency, which is provided through the disclosure of financial interests by Members. It has to be understood that disclosure does not necessarily remove the conflict between a private interest and the public interest, but it helps identify instances where potential conflict exists and makes it easier to detect when it occurs.
The form and timing of the disclosure of financial interests by Members is divided into two categories, that is; either ad-hoc or routine disclosure. Ad-hoc disclosure requires a Member to declare financial interest before participating in a debate, committee hearing or vote where that financial interest is likely to result in a conflict of interest. Whereas routine disclosure demands that Members must declare their financial interest on taking up the position as a Member and at regular intervals thereafter. The Code adopts the routine disclosure approach and Members are required to declare their financial interests within 60 days of the Opening of Parliament and to periodically update the register of financial interests during the lifetime of a Parliament. This approach of routine registration of interest is an effective means of identifying conflict. The system of routine registration forms is an essential part of combating corruption as allegations of illicit enrichment can be easily identified as mysterious increases in Members’ interests are revealed.
Another issue that has to be clarified is the question of who is supposed to register? The answer to this question seems to be obvious, but the expansion of the definition of financial interest of a Member (direct or indirect) to include those that cause a direct benefit to the immediate family or any business partner of that Member raises a lot of concern. This is particularly so because the interests of individuals who, themselves are not public officials are required to be registered. This is necessary in order to stop Members from circumventing the regulations by channeling assets to other members of their family and business partners. In an attempt to cure this perceived invasion of privacy, the register has a part that contains confidential information and access to this part of the register is restricted.
Breach of the Code
This section deals with the procedures to be followed in the event that a Member fails or neglects to comply with the provision of the Code. The insertion of this section came after the realisation that the previous Code only indicated that a breach of the Code amounted to contempt of Parliament but did not provide for the procedures to be adopted in the event that such breach occurs. The section also provides for the procedures to be followed when conducting investigations for the breach of the Code and clearly states what constitutes breach thereof. This was done in order to promote and enforce compliance with the code.
The provision of principles and rules in the Code was not enough. There was need to include regulatory frameworks which provided mechanisms for enforcing the rules and applying sanctions whenever there is breach. This is crucial in the combat against corruption as it deters potential offenders. The enforcement and regulation of the Code is done by a Committee which is empowered to instigate its own enquiries against Members for breach.
Conclusion
Thus in conclusion, whether written or communicated informally, a code of conduct defines behavior expectations for those that it governs and in this case, Members of Parliament. While codes may not prevent inappropriate behavior or fraud, they do provide Members with legal and ethical standards that will influence their performance and commitment to Parliament. Madam President, with these few words I beg to second the motion. I thank you.
HON. SENATOR MASUKU: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second, Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 5th October, 2017.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF AN ADVERSE REPORT ON
STATUTORY INSTRUMENT NO 74 OF 2017, POLICE
(ASSOCIATION) REGULATIONS 2017
Second Order read: Consideration of the Adverse Report by the
Parliamentary Legal Committee on Statutory Instrument No. 74 of
2017- Police (Association) Regulations, 2017, published in the Government Gazette during the month of July, 2017.
House in Committee.
HON. SAMUKANGE: My name is Hon. Jonathan Samukange, Member of Parliament for Mudzi South. I am accompanied today, on my right by Hon. Fortune Chasi and on my left, Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi.
These are lawyers and members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee
(PLC). As has already been stated by the Chairman, the Statutory Instrument was referred to the Committee for its consideration, in particular on whether it is consistent with the Constitution.
After our deliberations we concluded that it was inconsistent with the Constitution, in particular that it compelled police officers to join the association. The Constitution is very clear, no one is compelled to join an association and that is the main reason why we then issued an Adverse Report. I am going to read the whole summary of our deliberations and my learned friends who are members of the Committee will either assist in answering questions or expanding what I will have read.
In pursuit of its Constitutional mandate as provided for in Section 152 of the Constitution, the Parliamentary Legal Committee (hereinafter referred to as “the Committee”) met on the 18th July, 2017. On its agenda was the analysis of Statutory Instrument 74 of 2017, Police (Association) Regulations, 2017, gazetted on the 9th of June 2017. After deliberations, the Committee unanimously resolved that an Adverse Report be issued in respect of the Statutory Instrument, due to the following considerations:-
- Section 3: Purpose and functions of the Zimbabwe Republic
Police Association.
The purpose of setting up the Association and its functions thereof are provided for in Section 72 (2) (m) of the Police Act as read with Section 3 (2) of the Regulations as regulating all matters affecting the welfare and efficiency of members. The Constitution, in Section 222, establishes a Police Service Commission whose functions are articulated in Section 223. One of the functions of the Commission is to ensure the general well being and good administration of the Police Service and its maintenance in a high state of efficiency. This function refers to matters affecting the welfare and efficiency of the members of the Police force which are being regulated for under these Regulations. It is the constitutional mandate of the Commission to look into the issues of the welfare and efficiency of members, not the Commissioner-General of Police as provided for in the Regulations. As a result, the Regulations are parallel with the functions of the Commission and seek to usurp the powers of the Commission thereby violating Section 222 and 223 of the Constitution.
In addition, the Commission may make Regulations for any of the purposes in Section 223, and in this case the Regulations make no reference or mention of the Police Service Commission. In contrast the Regulations in Section 3 (2) states that all issues shall be brought to the notice of the Commissioner-General of Police. There is no mention of referral of the matters upon receipt to the Police Service Commission.
- Section 3 (3) Affiliation and Membership
The affiliation to an Association may be voluntary and by choice of an individual member. Section 3 (3) of the Statutory Instrument provides that the association shall consist of members of the Police Service. The wording of the provision is not clear whether membership is voluntary or compulsory and automatic by virtue of one being a duly attested member of the Zimbabwe Republic Police. If the latter is true, the provision is in contravention of the right; that is the freedom of assembly and association guaranteed in Section 58 of the Constitution.
Section 58 provides that;
- Every person has the right to freedom of assembly and association, and the right not to assemble or associate with others.
- No person may be compelled to belong to an association or to attend a meeting or gathering. The net result Mr. Chairman is that the regulations, as formulated make it compulsory and actually violate those rights which I have outlined.
Members of the Police Service must be given a choice to join the
Association or not. There is no mention in the enabling Act that the
Association is an extension of the constitutional mandate of the Police
Service as provided in Section 219 of the Constitution. It is also not
clear if the public is welcome to join the Association or it is only confined to the Police Service.
- Section 6: Powers of the Commissioner-General of Police.
The powers given to the Commissioner-General of the Police in terms of Section 6 of the regulations are excessive and encroach on the members’ right to freedom of association as members may want to choose their leaders amongst themselves who chair and spearhead the work of the association, but are not afforded this opportunity since the Commissioner General appoints the individuals mentioned above. In addition, his powers as earlier mentioned contravene Section 223 of the
Constitution as he is taking the powers and functions of the Commission, thereby usurping the powers of the Police Service Commission.
- Enactment of the Regulations
The enactment of the regulations by the Minister violates Section
223 (2) of the Constitution in that the Constitution empowers the Police
Service Commission to make regulations with the approval of the Minister for any of the purposes in Section 223 of which the issue of welfare is part of the matters mentioned. In terms of Section 117 (2) (c) as read with 134 of the Constitution, Parliament confers subordinate legislative powers upon a body or authority within the scope laid out in the enabling Act. These regulations should have been cited as having been made by the Police Service Commission with the approval of the Minister. There is no mention or reference to the Commission in the regulations at all, thus they are in contravention of Section 223 (2).
It is the collective wisdom of the Committee that the Statutory Instrument contains provisions that contravene the provisions of the Constitution and unanimously resolved to issue an Adverse Report on the Statutory Instrument. We rest our case –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear,
hear.].
House resumed.
Progress reported.
HON. SAMUKANGE: Madam President of the Senate, I now with leave, move that this House having given consideration to the Report of the Parliamentary Legal Committee on Statutory Instrument Number 74 of 2017, Police Association Regulations 2017 resolves that the Statutory Instrument would, if enacted, be in contravention of the provisions of the Constitution.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. I rise to debate on the Presidential Speech which was delivered to this august
House by His Excellency, the President on the 12th of last month.
Madam President, the President touched on a lot of issues in his address. He outlined a number of Bills which Parliament is expected to pass during this current sitting. The main things of his address include the alignment of laws with the Constitution and he sighted about 30 pieces of legislation which were to be aligned to the Constitution. With this Session being brief as it is, I think we have to work overtime, to sit longer periods and be more productive if we have to achieve this ambitious agenda which was set by the President.
The second thing in his address broadly touched on the improvement of Zimbabwe’s business of environment of doing business in Zimbabwe. The priority attention should be given to those areas which enhance Zimbabwe’s appeal as a nation to attract investment so that it becomes an investment destination, and those areas which improve the domestic business environment generally. The third area – [HON. MUSAKA: Inaudible interjection.] – Mr. President, I want to be heard in silence.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
you may continue.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you. I said the fourth area which His Excellency touched upon was the need for hard work by all Members of Parliament. This means both Members of the Senate and the Lower House, including the ticking off of absentee Ministers. Ministers sometimes do not come here deliberately under the guise that they are doing other business outside there. I think it is a privilege to be appointed a Minister from among us and we expect those Ministers to be here – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] – and articulate our issues. The
President was adamant. He said there should be a tick off so that the
Minister when he is absent, he should give through you Presiding Officers his notice of absence.
The ambitious agenda which I have mentioned above demands absolute commitment and diligence from all legislators who should also engage in robust and well informed debates. That is what we must do here. To achieve this, all MPs should always be present, punctual, disciplined, professional and display impeccable Parliamentary conduct according to the President. His Excellency referred to those Ministers who do not attend Parliament as being guilty and they lack impeccable Parliamentary conduct. He said they are expected to lead by example, especially if you are Cabinet Ministers.
The other area which the President addressed in his Speech is the
Government’s legislative agenda which tabled out 26 Bills to be considered during this session. Several of these tabled Bills have featured before in previous sessions of Parliament and they have never been attended to. However, there are some new interesting Bills which have come up for the first time and I am interested in a few of those.
Among these new Bills are the following: the Land Developers Bill, the
Teaching Professions Council Bill and the Mandatory Sentencing for Rape and Sexual Abuse Bill. These are very important in my view and we should deal with them before the end of this session if I were to direct the Ministers to bring them here.
Mr. President, the Land Developers Bill is intended to bring some security and sanity in the operations of land developers in general. We expect to see the issue or problem of land barons to be a thing of the past if this Bill is enacted. It should empower the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to deal with these effectively once and for all. I also urge local councils to also abide by the law because some of the councillors do not do things above board and with this Bill, I think we will go a long way.
The other Bill which I want to discuss briefly is the Mandatory Sentence for Rape and Sexual Abuse Bill. This Bill is aimed at the provision for more deterrent penalties for perpetrators of rape and other offences including sexual abuse. For example, there is a rise of abhorrent incest going on in the rural and urban areas. People do not respect boundaries of relatives any more. They are abusing women and children with impunity. Earlier on, there was a proposal and I think the Government has already shown its intention that penalties must be increased for the offenders that 60 years without option for those who rape children under 13 and 40 years for those who rape adult people. I think this should be maintained and it should come to fruition so that we see sanity in this country. We are guilty of many of these offences as a nation and we are doing nothing about it.
Lastly, I want to discuss about the Teaching Professions Council
Bill. This Bill is intended to regulate and promote ethical conduct
within the teaching profession. In my view, as a former teacher, I think this Bill was long overdue. It should have come a long time back when we got independence. The teaching profession is the only profession which had no professional council to regulate its workers and conditions of service. I think we should applaud the Minister for coming up with this Bill. In his quest to introduce the new curriculum, he has come up with this consummated Bill which I think in my view is going to go a long way to encourage the people in the teaching profession to do their best. By the way, this sector of the teaching profession comprises by far the largest number of Government workers in this country. The teachers are the bulk of civil of servants. They deserve much better treatment and improved conditions of service. So through this Bill I think that would go a long way.
Mr. President, I want to thank the mover of this motion, Senator Chief Charumbira and his seconder, Senator Chief Mtshane for bringing this debate into this august House. I hope we will debate it. As I said, we need robust debate on such issues across the political divide; not just to leave it to one section. Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. Mr.
President, I would also want to add my voice in support of the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane. The number of legislative pieces which the President mentioned in his Speech will definitely see our country moving forward. As such, we are supposed to come here with evidence based information so that we can debate robustly and also from a position of knowledge so that we can come up with better Bills for our country.
I will dwell mostly on the issues which you raised and I must commend the Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary Caucus for the wonderful lobbying and advocacy that they have been doing.
We have now seen that the President came up with quite a number of pieces of legislation. The Child Justice Bill will certainly provide the proper ways of handling children and the Marriages Bill will certainly outlaw early child marriages. We have seen ourselves as a House debating at length the SADC Model Law on eradicating early child marries and now, the Bill will be brought to Parliament.
I would also want to talk about my other Bills but I will zero in on the Corporate Governance Bill because as you can understand, no matter how much noise we make, no matter how much advocacy and no matter how much lobbying, if the cake in terms of Treasury money is not there, we will not be able to achieve the results that we want. So on corporate governance in any modern economy, there are usually two major players in the creation of wealth. There is the Government and then there is the private sector. The commercial entities which are public and private are usually the most creative and productive creators of wealth. These assume the risk of raising and investing capital in any country to meet the task at hand. Because they manage risk in an individual capacity, it is tempting to cut corners and usually at the expense of the owners of the capital – the workers and the consumers. In any such environment of risk management, the law of the jungle easily and readily beckons. So, I am talking about corruption here.
The Corporate Governance Bill - we all hope that, that regulation will become very important in terms of making sure that everybody who deals in raising capital does it in its proper management.
I am glad that His Excellency the President also took due cognisance of the international corporate trend. In his speech, he highlighted the issue of virtuous corporate governance as an instrument of gross domestic product growth. Certainly, this shows us that this was a long overdue piece of legislation – the Corporate Governance Bill.
Parliament needs to rise to this occasion and this is the time Hon. Members, that we need to look at how capital has been managed in this country. Related also to the Corporate Governance Bill is the domestication of the Marrakech Agreement on the World Trade Organisation. We all know that we are a global village where local and national goods link communities across continents and it is important that we understand that. If we do not understand that, those who are in power of raising capital and those who are in power of signing agreements will take advantage. So as Members of Parliament, we should rise to understand those issues if we want the issues of our country to be managed well.
I am happy to highlight that once again, His Excellency the
President has grasped the crucial role of trade and has presented to Parliament this important agenda. Zimbabwe is keen and ready to play its rightful role in global wealth creation through accession to this Marrakech Agreement and I think that we need to understand more about it. As I said, as Members of Parliament we are here to uphold the Constitution and to play the oversight role to make sure that those who were put in power are carrying out those policies.
The President also turned his attention to the issue of labour which is a very important area. I was once a Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Services in this country and I think that is a very important Bill to come to Parliament because indeed, Zimbabwe is actually trail blazing in terms of our human resources and we know that. Of course, there is brain-drain because of our economy which is not performing well but eventually, we want all our Zimbabweans who are in the Diaspora to come back and help in the development of this country.
So, that Bill is also coming at a very good time. The high quality of brains of educated Zimbabweans are a source of great pride – we know about that here at home, regionally and internationally. So, this new Labour Law Amendment Bill is equally very important and I encourage all of us to debate it robustly.
I also want to commend the Presidential Speech because it embraced a lot of Bills which are coming. He showed his understanding of the need for a comprehensive approach to the optimally husbandry of minerals which we have in this country and the fertile soils that we have and also the tantalising tourist attractions which we have. As a result, as Zimbabweans, we should never be poor because God gave us all those wonderful natural resources.
All these Bills will certainly harness all these to a potential of growth and prosperity but the law of the jungle will wreck havoc to the hard working people. Corruption has transferred wealth from the most vulnerable to the most corrupt cartels of self-anointed land barons. The Land Developers Bill is certainly coming at the right time to deal with this. The victims – the young couples or young families who are trying to look for a place to live are hoodwinked and they buy these little lands and then end up without anything. The victims are fully aware of the evil players who stole their hard earned monies and I hope that with the Corporate Governance Bill, we can deal with the land barons in this country. Mr. President, I submit.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this important motion. I would want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira who moved the motion which was seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane. The Presidential Speech for the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament had very important words for both the National Assembly and the Senate. In his speech, His Excellency talked about amendment Bills that will be coming to Parliament and he also talked about the Labour Amendment Bill and also the Public Entities and Governance Bill that is likely to address issues of corruption. If we look at what was happening in Zimbabwe, people were left jobless overnight but if this Bill on labour comes into this House, we can have a look at it. We need to consider it so that people are respected at work.
He also mentioned issues on mining and talked about the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill which addresses the issue of our minerals that we have here. Right now, there is a lot of environmental degradation that is taking place because of mining activities. This amendment is a welcome development and I hope that when it comes to this House, we will debate it effectively. There was also mention of the Motor Vehicle Accident Fund and if we look at what is happening in our nation, people are dying due to road carnage. This accident fund will enable us to assist the deceased and ensure that everything works accordingly.
He also spoke on Command Agriculture and we want to thank the Lord for giving us a good rain season. We know people prayed through their different religions. Some prayed through the spirit mediums and some to God but what we want to thank him for is that we were able to get good rainfall. This year, if people are to engage in Command Agriculture, there should be awareness on veldt fires because a lot of people lost their produce because of the veldt fires. We would also want a situation where when people start harvesting there should be equipment such as combine harvesters, to assist in harvesting.
He also talked about the issue of irrigation. If we look at what is currently in place, a lot of wheat has been planted and our request is to increase irrigation so that we once again become the bread basket of Southern Africa and assist other nations. Now that wheat is available, we also need combine harvesters to harvest the grain and ensure that it is not left in the open or lost.
The Defence Forces and the Security Forces also have great work ahead of them. If you look in the electronic media, there is a lot of conflict in other countries but let me say that in Zimbabwe there is peace. Yes, I know people can have differences here and there but the bottom line is that there is peace in Zimbabwe. So, I hope that the security forces will continue to do their work diligently in as much as they were appreciated by the President. So, the security forces should remain efficient and effective. Even in this august House, we also want to thank them because they are also maintaining peace. As we debate in Parliament, we want to thank the President because he acknowledged that we are doing a lot of work. So, as the Upper House, we should ensure that we debate the motions that come into this House effectively.
We want to thank the President of the nation for the speech that he gave and for the wise words of wisdom. I hope that we all heard the words and I hope that as we continue to do our work we will remember those words. With these few words, I want to thank you.
*HON. SEN. GOTO: I also rise to add my voice to the
Presidential speech that was presented on the 12th September for the
Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament. I want to thank Chief
Charumbira for raising the motion. We want to thank the President for his words which were very important. He mentioned a lot of things and as an individual, there is something that should have touched you. On my part, I was deeply concerned with the issue of child marriages and the fact that the whole nation is affected was indeed disturbing. However, I realised that to put an end to the issue we need to come up with legislation to ensure that children are children before they become adults.
Long ago, children used to engage in different games and they also used to follow the community norms that were there. Last Saturday, we had a function for traditional leaders in Mashonaland East. They were all involved in the traditional ceremony which is something that we do not uphold nowadays. I wish the children were there to see what was happening then they would understand that this is our tradition and culture. The way the children were dancing – there were so many men who looked at the girls who were dancing and got attracted to them. The girls who were dancing followed the taught routines and were not ashamed to perform those routines. The girls do not know anything besides dancing. Long ago we used to go swimming with boys and that was not a challenge. It is just like the days of Adam in the bible – if he had not taken the fruit they would not have known that they were naked. So, the children who were dancing were not even aware of what was happening but the men who were watching were busy looking at them and expressing their hopes to have them as wives. So, we need to uphold our tradition and culture. That was something that deeply touched me.
There were also so many Bills that were mentioned and if they are to come to Parliament, both Houses should support the Bills. I want to urge us as Senators to come up with legislation and not to be political but to look at the Bills as a Government. It is unfortunate that at times we find ourselves being political. So, we need to come up with legislation that will be good for the nation. The Bills that were mentioned included the Sexual Bill, Labour Bill and Teaching Profession Bill. All the Bills are important to this country. Even if the teachers are out there, they should know why they trained as teachers and why they are there. They should know their Code of Conduct. Even as Senators, we are Senators but we also have our Code of Conduct that we should follow in public and how to work with the public. I support that.
He also mentioned command farming and right now our silos are full. So many people have joined Command Agriculture after seeing the results. Once you take your grain to GMB, you get your money in no time. It might not be in cash but you can get it there and then through a bank transfer or ecocash. As I speak right now, I am coming from buying shellers and disc harrows. So, let us reinvest the money that we got from farming.
He also mentioned mining but we are destroying our nation through artisanal mining because we are not registering and we are engaging in environmental degradation. Artisanal mining is dangerous and so we need to look into it. He also mentioned the Accident Fund. We have heard of people dying in road carnages and people are heard searching for their relatives on the radio. The Accident Fund is equivalent to the Aids levy. Aids levy is used for people living with
HIV/AIDS. So, the Accident Fund will also assist those people who do not have relatives to give them a decent burial. If possible, if all those Bills come, let us support them so that in 2018 we are able to proceed without any challenges.
He also mentioned issues pertaining to rape. I do not know what we can do concerning issues on rape. There is an elderly woman, a grandmother who was murdered. She was cut into pieces and people realised that she had been raped prior to the murder. Those are issues that come to us as leaders. Let us not take the traditions and cultures of other countries and bring them to Zimbabwe. I know most people bring these foreign cultures but our children should learn how to dress the traditional way. The way our children dress is appalling. They now put on skimpy clothes that leave the whole stomach exposed. Long ago people used to wear animal skins. That was then. Those would only make sure that the private parts were not exposed.
I will not say everything but I will leave a few things for others to comment. What I just urge us in this House is that let us unite and work together, and pass our Bills and become good leaders. We are relative and we need to work together in the rural areas. So, if we do not pass that Bill, what then will we do? Mr. President, I thank you for the time that you have given me to say these few words. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank
you Hon. Goto and we also want to thank you for the traditional ceremony that you had in Mashonaland East in Wedza educating our children on our culture. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 5th October, 2017.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON PROMOTING
STAKEHOLDER AND PARLIAMENTARY DIALOGUE ON THE ARMS TRADE TREATY (ATT)
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move the motion standing in my name:
That this House takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwe delegation to the International Conference on Promoting Stakeholder and Parliamentary Dialogue on the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) held at Pullman Teranga Hotel in Dakar, Senegal from 13th to 14th June, 2017.
HON. SEN. D. KHUMALO: I second.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: The United General Assembly adopted
the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) on the 2nd April, 2013. The main objective of the Treaty is to regulate international trade in conventional arms. Its goal is to foster peace and security by curbing transfer of small arms and light weapons to countries experiencing instability. Consequently, this would create difficulties for those countries that violate International Human Law to get supplies of such weapons. The purpose of the conference which was held from the 13 – 14th June, 2017 in Dakar, Senegal was to prioritise the prevention and reduction of armed
violence, as well as global terrorism and organised crime.
The conference was organised by the Parliamentary Forum on
Small Arms and Light Weapons in cooperation with the Friedrich-Ebert Stiftung (FES). Most armed conflicts in the world, regardless of their scale are perpetuated by the use of uncontrolled arms and light weapons which are readily available to terrorist groups such as militias, warlords and extremists groups who have no legal authority to acquire such weapons, hence the need to address this scourge and curb its proliferation as a means of achieving lasting peace and sustainable development. Perpetrators of armed conflicts also involve non-state actors who resort to illicit means of arms acquisition through division from state stockpiles, black markets and trafficking, as well as those weapons produced locally.
The Conference therefore aimed at promoting stakeholder and parliamentary dialogue on the Sustainable Development Goal No. 16 and Arms Trade Treaty Universalisation and Implementation and also building efforts towards the implementation of the Agenda 2030.
- The Parliamentary Action Plan
- The Conference held discussions and drew its conclusions from the participants perspectives on what can be achieved globally and the areas where attention and action needs to be focused in the ATT process. An Action Plan emanating from the deliberations sought to reinforce parliamentary ownership, participation and understanding of the Arms
Trade Treaty (ATT) and other relevant instruments, such as the Firearms
Protocol for example, as well as the Agenda 2030 Sustainable
Development Goal No. 16(4) and the Programme Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the illicit trade in small and light weapons in all its aspects (UNPOA).
- The Parliamentary Action Plan also sought to facilitate, gather experiences and recommendations from the Conference on specific issues to be addressed and actions to be taken related to the implementation of the Arms Trade Treaty in Africa. A follow up conference namely, the Third Conference of State Parties of the Arms
Trade Treaty (CSP3) was expected to be held in Geneva, Switzerland in September, 2017 where input from the parliamentary perspective was expected to be provided.
- The Action Plan was meant to focus on parliaments’ role in strengthening the response to armed violence and small and light weapons proliferation. It was also designed to achieve the following:
- Support the universalization and/or effective implementation of the Arms Trade Treaty by addressing synergies between the ATT and the framework of Agenda 2030, SDG No. 16 and UNOPA, of which as Zimbabwe we signed the Arms Trade Treaty in 2014;
- Guide parliamentarians in their work related to the ATT, to ensure that the legislative response is both nationally appropriate and consistent with the aims of the instruments;
- Suggest mechanisms for effective oversight of Government;
- Recommend methods to strengthen links between the Executive and legislative branches of Government and between parliaments and civil society on the armed violence prevention and reduction agenda-strengthening the social contract.
- Recommendations on Universalisation and Implementation
- The Parliamentary Action Plan identified three recommendations which are based on the key roles of a parliamentarians namely; legislative, oversight and awareness rising. The gender equality perspective was also perceived as fundamental; hence the role of women and youth, as well as other relevant international instruments on conventional arms control could not be down played.
- On universalisation, the following were proposed;
- Establishing comprehension of the rationale that prevents ratification by a specific country and adopt a strategy according to the findings.
- Enable awareness raising efforts in coordination with civil society actors and other relevant stakeholders, organise trainings with parliamentarians and civil society;
- Clarify the role of defence and security actors and ensure their participation;
- Identification of national authorities and responsible focal points, based on multi-stakeholder national commissions in interinstitutional coordination;
- Ensure the support of regional organisations, such as the Regional Economic Communities (REC) in the facilitation of outreach, reporting and other relevant efforts; and
- Ensure donor coordination and funding, enabling a base for international exchange for parliamentarians at the national, regional and international level.
3.3 On implementation emphasise was on the following:
- Increasing context specific capacity building initiatives, including awareness raising between parliamentarians and civil society, shadow reporting mechanisms and establishing a roster of experts;
- Clarifying leadership on the national level, e.g National
Commission on Small Arms and Light Weapons;
- Including Parliamentarians in national delegations to the
Conference of State Parties, based on stakeholder involvement and inter-institutional arrangements;
- Elaborating a national strategy linked to national political priorities and relevant international frameworks such as the Agenda 2030 and the UNPOA;
- Ensuring domestication of the Arms Trade Treaty, that is to adapt national legislation to the Treaty’s commitments and
- Striving for streamlining and compliance of reporting.
Recommendations
From a parliament point of view, the following need to be seriously considered as recommendations:
- Parliamentarians should advocate together with colleagues in civil society, for possible suitable amendments in their interactions with the Executive.
Parliamentarians should play a leading role in lobbying the Executive to sign the ATT or refer the ATT to Parliament so that it can be reviewed and ratified.
- Parliamentarians should encourage the Government to sign and ratify the ATT so that it can quickly come into force in their respective countries.
- Parliamentarians should take a lead in encouraging their Executive to deposit Instruments of Ratifications or Accession and to inquire if the Executive intends to make any reservation and what the nature of such reservations may be.
- Parliamentarians should ensure that provisions of ATT are adhered to, particularly where claims are made that the agreements are defence cooperation arrangements – thereby pursuant to the Treaty, unaffected by its provisions and to ensure that the agreements in question are legitimately described as such and have not been simply entered into as a way of evading application of the
ATT.
Parliamentarians can identify national associations of civil society to raise awareness about the danger of the proliferation of SALW. Persuading States to sign and ratify the ATT for those who have not yet done so.
- Parliamentarians should develop a schedule for meeting with the Presidents of Parliamentary Groups for training sessions and information on the ATT.
- Parliamentarians should establish national level mechanisms for the ATT and Programme of Action.
- Parliamentarians should collaborate with the media on the dissemination of harmful consequences of illicit trafficking of SALW and the effects resulting there from.
- The Parliamentary Forum on SALW must recruit members from all groups and committees for effective action.
Parliamentarians must use parliamentary roles to ask questions to members of the government working on defence and foreign affairs lobby for ratification.
- Parliamentarians should seek the approval of Parliament to pass any business and activity in the context of the fight against the proliferation of SALW and the ATT.
- Parliamentarians should lobby for involvement in the process of negotiation and conflict resolution through the strengthening of parliamentary diplomacy.
- Parliamentarians should seek the expertise, support and guidance for agencies of the United Nations in the process of awareness and advocacy for the implementation of ATT.
At Regional level, MPs should:
- Create regional networks on SALW and ATT;
- Collaborate with the parliaments of other countries to have a regional approach;
- Raise awareness among governments and African States, Latin Americas and the Caribbean to promote dialogue instead of war as a method of dispute resolution;
At the international level MPs should:
- Encourage the Security Council of the United Nations to vote on a resolution that enhances the control and traceability of transfers of weapons and condemn and punish all those involved in the smuggling.
- Have a significant role to play in ensuring that the Arms Trade Treaty effectively prevents and reduces armed violence, and in particular SALW-related violence.
In conclusion, Parliamentarians worldwide are urged to take action and prepare themselves for the implementation of the Arms Trade Treaty and Zimbabwe should ratify as soon as possible the ATT. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on the issue of the Arms Trade Treaty. The discussions are making us aware of the effects of the arms within any country-that if there is a proliferation of arms within the country, there is lack of economic development if we are aware. This is because people will be frightened to work and running away from these people who will have small arms and will be fighting. If we look at Goal No. 16, it is about inclusiveness and access to justice for all so that the conflicts are reduced.
The inclusiveness is at different levels and different issues. It may be inclusiveness in work situations, inclusiveness in employment because its people are not satisfied. That results in some people developing the issues of wanting to be against their friends, Governments and their regions. So, we need development in all the regions of the country within the neighbours. That is why our country, our President is always trying to make agreements with our neighbours in the East, South and in the North.
That means even within the country, there should be agreements and looking into the issues that there is inclusiveness like Goal No. 16, inclusiveness in employment, training and all these other issues. Once there is inclusiveness, there is peace within the country and that reduces the need which we all fight together the small arms which come to the country. If there is no arms trade and peace, we see the conflicts affecting generally the women and the children.
It is saying we should ensure that there is no arms trade. The Treaty must be signed so that we stop the conflicts which are going to affect women and the children. If the women and children are affected, you know what will happen; you can conclude before I even say it. There will be no time for the preparations for agriculture, preparation of the food for the community and once that happens, there is poor nutrition and poor health – [HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear.] – Therefore, we need to work together so that there is peace, we can have agriculture, eat and live properly. Strife results in lack of development.
As I have said, there is no economic development when there is strife. Economic development means employment, good life and everybody is happy and always singing. I am saying, this meeting was held on 13th to 14th June and there was signing in there. Why not also hasten the ratification so that this becomes our country’s way of life because we will have agreed with the treaty and we will be implementing the treaty. There is need also as a country to take the action plan that was discussed at Dakar so that we strengthen the responses to armed violence and small or light weapons proliferation.
There was a recommendations which also interested me a lot, the recommendation about the method to strengthen links between the Executive and the Legislative branches of Government, which will link the civil societies to work together. Once we agree and we work together with our civil societies, parliaments and neighbours, we will have reduced conflicts within the country.
I also looked at the issue of universality. It enables awareness raising efforts in coordination with civil societies and other stakeholders.
There is need which I heard also being mentioned here, the need for training. What does it mean to say, Arms Trade Treaty. We need to be trained to understand and it should not only be the Parliamentarians or Government workers. That should be inclusive and also the civil societies and the ordinary people should be part of it. Particularly, our chiefs within their areas should understand this so that they can help us in the understanding of the Arms Trade Treaty.
I thought my other interest within this discussion was increasing context specific capacity building initiatives, including awareness raising between Parliaments. Shadow reporting mechanisms should be made available. After training, where are we going to be judged that we are improving as a country or not improving? I thought this was a very good issue which was raised by the group.
One of the major recommendations which came to my attention is, Parliaments should play a leading role in lobbying the Executive to sign the Arms Trade Treaty or restore the ATP to Parliament so that it can be reviewed and ratified if possible. We need the whole document as it is as Parliament to look into it so that we can see what we can recommend or leave out. As you know, it covers all the other countries but then we can remove those areas we think are not country specific or do not fit the Zimbabwean nation.
Having said these few words Mr. President, I will finally say, we have those who are members of the SADC, can you please take this with you and go and discuss it so that we have an agreed way of dealing with the conflicts as SADC. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 5th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON.
SEN. A. SIBANDA, the Senate adjourned at Sixteen Minutes past Four
o’clock pm.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 3rd October, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
REMINDER OF INVITATION TO THE LIAISON AND
COORDINATION COMMITTEE RETREAT
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that all Chairpersons of Committees are invited to the Liaison and Coordination Committee retreat (LCC) to be held at Holiday Inn, in Bulawayo from 6th to 9th October, 2017. Travel arrangements will be communicated in due course.
SECOND READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B.2A, 2017]
First Order read: Second Reading: National Peace and
Reconciliation Commission Bill [H.B. 2A, 2017.]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE: (HON. KANENGONI): Thank you Madam
President.
- The purpose of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC) Bill, 2017 is to provide for the operationalisation, composition and functions of the NPRC in fulfillment of Chapter 12 Part 6 (Sections 251-253) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which established the NPRC.
The Bill also seeks to confer additional jurisdiction on the Commission, including the investigative powers, provision of the terms of office, conditions of service, qualifications and vacation of office by Members of the National Peace and Reconciliation and the appointment of the Executive Secretary; and to provide the matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing. The NPRC Bill, 2017 shall come into operation when the President assents to the Bill. The NPRC shall be a full time Commission.
Clause 1: Short Title
- The clause provides for the short title of the Bill which is the
National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.
Clause 2: Interpretation
- The clause provides for the definitions of words in the Bill. To this end, words like Commission, seal, Executives Secretary, Minister are defined for ease of reference.
Clause 3: Procedure, Powers and Functions of The
Commission
- The clause provides for additional functions of the Commission as original functions are established in terms of the Constitution. The Clause also seeks to provide for procedures to be followed by members of the Commission when conducting meetings. It also provides for the manner in which vacancies may be filled. The same Clause confers ancillary powers upon the Commission which may help the Commission better discharge its functions.
Clause 4: Independence of the Commission
- The clause reinforces the independence of the Commission established in terms of Section 235 of the Constitution.
Clause 5: Seal of the Commission
- The clause empowers the President to, by proclamation, set the seal of the Commission. The seal must be kept in the custody of the Executive Secretary.
Clause 6: Offices and Operations of the Commission
- The clause gives the Commission powers to establish offices throughout the country. The Commission has to establish such offices in consultation with the Minister and the Minister responsible for Finance. The offices established must be accessible to all people including those using public transport and those with disabilities. Where necessary, the Commission may request the co-operation of certain entities like other independent Commissions, Local Government structures, civil society organisations and faith based institutions for the Commission to better perform its functions.
Clause 7: Removal of Members from Office
- The clause reiterates the procedures to be followed for the removal of Members of the Commission from office as set up in the Constitution.
Clause 8: Investigative Function of the Commission
- The clause confers investigative functions upon the
Commission. The Commission shall invite any person affected by any dispute or conflict arising out of any action or omission on the part of an authority or person to, in any one of the officially recognised languages, make an oral or written complaint to the Commission requesting it to investigate such action or omission. The Commission has got powers to make the investigations. However, the Commission shall not investigate any matter which is pending before any competent court.
Clause 9 Gender
- The clause confers upon the Commission the power to establish a Gender Unit that will look into the development of specific gender guidelines and rules on how the Commission will mainstream and incorporate gender into every aspect of its work.
Clause 10: Manner of Conducting Investigations
- The clause sets out the investigation procedures for the Commission. In its hearing procedures, the Commission must not be bound by strict rules of evidence. Any person who is called to appear before the Commission to defend the allegations raised against him or her must be afforded 14 working days to respond in writing. Any person appearing before the Commission is entitled to be represented by a legal practitioner of his or her choice at his or her expense. This clause obliges Members of the Commission and their staff not to disclose information obtained except in special circumstances.
The Minister responsible for national security may issue a certificate to the effect that certain evidence or documentation must only be disclosed in camera in the best interest of defence, national security, external relations and the like. Any person who is dissatisfied by the decision of the Minister may appeal to the Commission while any appeal against the decision of the Commission lies with the Administrative Court.
Clause 11: Compellability of Witnesses and Inadmissibility of
Incriminating Evidence Given Before the Commission
- The clause provides for the inadmissibility of incriminating evidence. Only the person who may be compelled by the Commission will enjoy this privilege.
Clause 12: Appearance before the Commission
- The clause compels persons who appear before the Commission to take the oath or make an affirmation before they testify. Any person who appears before the Commission shall be entitled to give evidence in any of the officially recognised languages.
Clause 13: Other Offences
- The clause establishes various offences for violating the provisions of this Bill. Such offences are to empower the Commission to better discharge its functions without any form of disturbance.
Clause 14: Staff of the Commission
- The clause confers upon the Commission power to make an establishment of its staff.
Clause 15: Appointment and Functions of the Executive
Secretary of the Commission
- The clause gives power to the Commission to appoint the Executive Secretary who must assist the Commission in the discharge of its functions.
Clause 16: Reports of the Commission
- Provides for the manner in which various reports may be submitted to Parliament by the Commission through the
Minister.
Clause 17: Implementation of the Commission’s Report
- The clause provides for the implementation of the
Commission’s Annual Report indicating timeframes and the form it takes.
Clause 18: Funds for the Commission
- The clause provides for various sources of the
Commission’s funds.
Clause 19:Accounts of the Commission and Appointment of Internal Auditor
- The clause compels the Commission to keep proper books of accounts. The Commission is allowed to appoint an Internal Auditor in terms of this clause.
Clause 20: Audit of Accounts
- The clause provides for procedures for auditing of the
Commission’s books of accounts. In terms of this clause, the Auditor General is empowered to audit the accounts of the Commission. Any person who fails to cooperate with the Auditor General shall be guilty of an offence.
Clause 21: Regulations
- The clause confers upon the Commission power to make regulations which shall be of no force unless they have been approved by Parliament. I so submit Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I rise to give a few comments on what
has been presented by the Minister. I happen to be one of the Chairpersons who went out on public hearings on this Bill. I will not read the whole report but I will highlight some of the concerns which were raised by the people when we went round and other Members of my Committee, I hope and trust that they will also add on what I will not have said.
First of all, we went to Matabeleland for the second time – by the way, we should remind the Senators that this one was the second. We went on the first one and then the Bill was withdrawn by the Vice
President before it was read fully because of the concerns which were raised. When we went for the second time, we got a few concerns and I think that most of them, when I saw the refined Bill, I think that they have been rectified and addressed to. One of the concerns which most people were raising was the entry point of where the reconciliation starts but I think that, that one is addressed and the Minister will clarify. That is what we got from the people.
Then the second one was the protection of the victims who are giving evidence – they wanted protection and that is one of the concerns. The third one was the decentralisation of offices. The Minister alluded to that one in her reading and it was a point which was emphasised by the people that their offices must be seen in all provinces if not at district level – the MPRC.
The other concern was the investigative functions of the
Commission. They said I think powers of the Minister should be limited or reduced a bit to give unfettered power to the Commission itself. The Commission must be left to do its own investigations without interference.
The other point that the public raised was and I am asking now through the Minister – was there no possibility of providing free legal services to the contending parties or the victims? Some people are poor and they cannot stand against a lawyer when they do not have legal representation. So they said Government can come in and provide free legal services to such issues. Then the other point which was also read in the presentation by the Minister was recruitment of staff which should be left to be done by the Commission itself and Government secondments should be limited to areas of need.
The last but not least point is they asked the question that the Commissioners have already been appointed and they have been operating and getting salaries but doing no work at all. Is the ten year period going to be extended? Those are some of the concerns that we got from the people in brief. So, with those, we want to accept that the Bill must go on. There are some people who said it should not see the light of day but we said no ways, this is a starting point of how people should engage and dialogue to resolve our problems. So, as a Committee, I think we were satisfied with the revised submissions which the Minister has brought and we are supporting the passage of the Bill. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President. I have followed this Bill and observed that some of the matters which were raised by our people have been rectified. So, I will simply mention a few things which were raised by the people. The people who are interested in this matter have their own wishes. When we went out as a Committee, people were worried about the venues. They were worried about where the meetings were to be held, which is in town. People wanted such meetings to have been held in Tsholotsho so we are not doing things for the sake of doing things.
Many people arrived in Bulawayo, Gweru and Victoria Falls halls but is that where the people who wanted to contribute were supposed to meet. People had their own concerns because the victims were of the view that the matter should have been taken to where this problem emanated from. They were of the view that matters should have been taken to Gwanda where people were buried at Balagwe, Thsolotsho and
Lower Gweru where there was so much fighting during Gukurahundi.
In short, this issue of money for this Commission, where is the
Committee going to be getting its resources? If you refer to the Ministry for everything, is it not that the Minister may now end up undermining this Commission because all the resources will be coming from the Ministry? We should try and look for money from donors or from the Government.
The other matter which was raised was the issue of languages. People were worried why when debating such matters they come with people who do not know the language to explain to them. When there are such matters, the people who reside in such areas should be the ones to explain this Bill. The Bill was also accessed a few hours before the Committee arrived. Why were people not given the Bill in time to enable them to read and understand then explain to each other? Again, it was accessed by a few who did so over the internet and downloaded it and were advised of the meeting rather late.
In some cases we found there were only three or five people or less than ten people. In most places we found only a few people. They said they had heard on the day in question that there was a meeting. If at all there are meetings of such a nature they wanted to be given time or to be informed in time of the Bill in their own language. For instance in Victoria Falls they said they would have preferred to hear the Bill in their own language so that when they contributed they would do so meaningfully because they would have understood it.
Since we are independent, empowerment means all languages but when you come to us with documents written in English how do we understand? Some people would have wanted to contribute but they had not understood the contents of the Bill. From my own perspective, I would like to say this Bill is now different. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I thank you as
well. I would like to say that these field trips are organised by Parliament and the Minister has nothing to do with that. So I think your concern about meeting in halls instead of Gwanda, Lower Gweru and so forth – that does not arise as far as the Minister is concerned and that is Parliament business. So, we will note that as Parliament but the Minister does not have to respond to it because they are not responsible for that particular activity.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. I rise
to support the Bill because I think it is a good Bill for the nation even though we have had challenges at the public hearings but that is the starting point. We should proceed because we have realised that it is something which is positive. As Chairperson of the Peace and Security Thematic Committee Sen. Mumvuri said, despite the importance of the Bill, people did not give constructive feedback because they ended up bringing in things that had nothing to do with the Bill. If this Bill comes into law, people need to be conscientised on the Bill so that they become aware of what the law is saying. What happened in South Africa is the same process. They also fought but now it is a Bill that is good. I know there are a lot of challenges but I support the fact the Bill is very important and is good for the nation. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. SIBANDA: I thank you Madam President. I
would like to add to what has been said by others because I was part of the Committee. I have a few things I would like to add. People complained about the heading that ‘National Healing, Peace and Reconciliation’, people were requesting for justice. In accordance with our culture, it is good to forgive each other. It is like what we say in our tradition that smoking the peace pipe, there is need for justice so that people may not say you or you, you took that. They want justice so that when we smoke the peace pie, we will see that those who lost their items will be compensated by Government since the Government is now involved in this. It is no longer a people’s thing but a Government programme to try and iron out the issues.
We have two things here. There are arguments of polarisation. If at all it happened; yes it happened - we cannot reverse it but the request of the people is that there is justice on this heading so that when you smoke the peace pipe things will be sooth. They will not be any hiccups so that people will not remain with complaints in their hearts. People accepted it even though they complained. There are a lot of things they wanted to complain about but this was the main thing, that people want that there be justice so that they can be reconciled and not remain with other issues which are not done properly.
May Government, as time goes by, amend and see to it that people stay in peace because people will sell each other out. Some children do not have birth certificates. Some children are heads of families and their parents are dead. I request for that Madam President. That is an important request that is coming from the people.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Madam President, in supporting this
Bill I would like to think that the time has arrived for the Bill to be before both Houses. I would like to request that if we talk of peace and reconciliation, it is a very important matter. Peace, where should this peace begin because when we debate about people who are out there as their representatives, I see that peace and reconciliation should start with us here, people who are debating here so that those who are out there who do not understand the matter, we will be able to explain to them.
This issues we are debating here is not something the people in these two Houses are not involved in. They are involved. We are involved so this exercise should begin with these two Houses so that there will be peace and reconciliation.
I have noted that we are talking about the creation of a
Commission. I have heard another Hon. Member stating that when they went out on public hearings, one of the issues that was raised was that offices should be found close to the people. What I stood up for Hon. President is that when we talk of offices, we do not talk of walls or structures but we also talk of the occupants. This is so because the people who occupy these offices when they fail to deliver on the matters that are supposed to be done - so that the Bill is understood well out there it is good that there be understanding, not that in these offices we should find people who cause people to be reluctant to visit the offices. They will not be closed physically but due the type of people that will be found there.
I would like to support this Bill very much but what I have stood up for Madam President is to request and encourage that the late Vice
President used to say ‘Peace begins with me! Peace begins with you!
Peace begins with all of us!’ I would like to say that it should not be ourselves going to the people and us again creating difficult conditions for the Commission to work because on our own, we are not reconciled. When supporting this Bill, let us support it because all of us as a nation of Zimbabwe, we are saying no, this thing happened and we are sorry and let us proceed. I thank you Madam President.
+HON. SEN. D. KHUMALO: I thank you Madam President of the Senate. What I want are just a few things. Is the Commission going to call us as well and sit down with us to hear what we feel on how we reconcile? Yes, it went out wherever it went but it did not manage to reach out to everyone. To tell the truth, some of us were involved in this at that time and we actually witnessed some of these. You know you people who were in the bush there. This is why you are happy that you worked hard to liberate the country like this.
As for us who were involved in this matter, we request that you approach us so that you hear how we feel and what we witnessed. How do I reconcile if you have not approached me so that I can also tell you what is in my heart? As I am here in Parliament, I am prepared to pour out my heart. I can talk to people in the morning advising them that I will come and do something for the nutrition programme. Some of my friends whom I will have talked to in the morning, when I go there I find that they are no longer there. You understand me.
When I go to some other place to talk and strategise, some of the people I will have strategised with will have passed on. Some of the coordinators that I used to work with have passed on and I am told that they are lying in a grave. There should be a way to make me reconcile. We should talk to each other. These things do happen, but there is a need for all us to be addressed on this issue so that we can be reconciled on how we can smoke the peace pipe. There is a lot of pain among the people. We actually witnessed some of these things. Some of them were bayoneted and we put them in hospital. We saw those things and I would like to be talked to so that I can be reconciled. I still feel pain when I see some of the children of my friends.
I used to work in Nkayi/Tsholotsho where I used to witness these things. We need those who witnessed those things to be talked to so that they understand that we have been corrected. I have not understood what has been corrected. There are some other people who are just like me who would also want to understand that things have been made right. Probably some of the people who have talking, I will hear what they will say and they will pour out their heart and feel okay.
As for us, we have not been talked to and therefore, we still have that bleeding heart especially when we were working for the Ministry of Health. It was really difficult to move around. Let us reconcile each other. Let us talk to each other so that we put finality to this matter. We have not yet finalised this matter. We need to be talked to as well so that we understand where we are going. What answer do I give to these people? When I say everything has come to a close, whether that is what was said I do not know. There are a lot of people who are like me and are still in pain. This is because they were witnesses to some of these things. I thank you Madam President for this time and I am sorry Madam President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to also add my voice to this very important Bill that has come in the Senate. I am also a Member of the Committee on Peace and Security that went around with Hon. Mumvuri and heard people’s views. We travelled around Zimbabwe listening patiently. As you have heard, we had problems here and there. Others did not want to give others an opportunity to speak but we never stopped. We were patient and people spoke. What did the people say about this Peace and
Reconciliation Commission Bill, which I hope is going to be covered?
They spoke of victim centres to say the victims have to be considered and this Bill has to really focus, protect and really be thoughtful of the victims. They also spoke of interference by the Executive, like this ministerial certificate. That means that the Executive is interfering. So, they want the Commission to be given powers and not the Executive. They also spoke on the Bill. There is a deafening silence on gender. Women have to be considered because they really have to work. It has to be 50/50 like what the Constitution says.
For example, we have Rwanda where there are so many women in Parliament and there is peace. We are mothers and we want peace. So, in your day to day work on this Peace and Reconciliation Bill, I beg you to consider women because men are not unifiers at all – [HON.
SENATORS: Inaudible interjections]- We are unifiers and we want this to end.
Hon. Vice President Mphoko having laughed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Yes I am happy Hon. Vice President that
Hon. Kanengoni-Malinga is a lady and she is the one who brought this Bill. So, I hope that when you are working, you are going to consider this as well to say we are going to work with women and women are going to be more. Granting pardon is a practice and it is an amnesty. It has to be clear what it is because people were saying sometimes if you just pardon and just say it is over, a person is likely to go back and do it again. There has to be something and a person has to show that they are remorseful and may be at least punish some of them that did worse things others. People were clear on this.
So, Madam President, with what I heard people saying, I hope and pray that this Bill is going to deal with Zimbabwe, a slave of violence and assist society to build a more peaceful and just society. We need love, unity, we need to be a Zimbabwe with that spirit of ubuntu. I hear others saying kusvutisana fodya. *Long ago our culture did not allow us to bit up a child. If you saw your neighbour without any food, you could not sit down to eat with your neighbour going hungry.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order Hon.
Member, you have to stick to one language.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President. I was
saying you had to share but if you look at it now, we have lost it along the way. I am happy to eat and yet my neighbour has nothing. I am happy to have a salary which is worth $200,000.00 when another person has no job. So, I am hoping that this Bill is going to bring that culture of ours back and we become united. There is nothing wrong because we are all Zimbabweans. Politics is politics. We do not want to say you have failed or someone saying let me also do this. I hope this is going to address this to say politics is politics and we are all Zimbabweans.
Even if I am President tomorrow, it does not mean that I am a bad person. If I am bad, five years down the line, you vote me out. It does not mean that we have to fight. I hope this Bill is going to bring that to our society to say we are not enemies because I also want to participate in politics and I also think that I can be good. I hope that Bill is going to include the chiefs. I do not have a copy of the Bill but should also include our chiefs’ nemaSabhuku edu nokuti ndivo vanoziva. Those are our leaders, our traditional leaders who know where we came from. They know our sacred places and culture. This can also help us to move in another direction that we lost. So, I hope this Bill has our traditional leaders because we need them. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. First of
all, let me congratulate Zimbabwe. In English, they say it is better late than never and that is exactly what we have done now, but in a rude way I can say we have come to our senses and recognised our omissions. My current concern is not with the Bill. The Bill is here but the challenge that would be an indictment on us is to turn the Bill and make the Commission something we will look back and say at least they did their work in terms of the legislation. It is one thing to set up a Commission and it is another to hinder its functionality.
I therefore would like to appeal to the Commission that I know you already exist and to the Executive that let the Commission do its work and be seen to do its work.
The second point I want to make is that as Zimbabweans, we will either take Zimbabwe forward or keep it at a standstill with this Bill as if we had not passed it. It is therefore incumbent upon us all, particularly the Legislators to play our effective role on the Executive and the Commission. I am actually of the opinion that it may be late; let us start practicing now. We come here and talk about a very positive Bill that brings light to our society and country and behave completely differently. It is sad that when we discuss this Bill, people continue to fight politically. Let us put an end to this, let us just make a stop, let us be honourable people – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – take action and put a stop to this please.
The last point Madam President that I would like to make is that if we make the right decision and pass the right law, we are setting examples even to the region, including Africa. Africa is still tumultuous, we have a lot of conflict here and there but we also know that Zimbabwe is reasonably well-respected from a political point of view in Africa. If we do the right thing and make the right Bill; if we implement the Bill to the satisfaction of our own people, it will translate to the satisfaction of Africa. If we do the opposite of passing the right Bill and behave in a different way to the Bill, we are also sending the wrong signal to Africa. So, let us translate legislation into action. With those few words Madam President I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Madam President. I
rise to commend highly the Minister for bringing this Bill into the House. As a member who was involved during the Constitution making process, I think this is an issue which came out clearly that we need that to ensure that we have post conflict justice and also that we promote national healing, unity and cohesion among ourselves as Zimbabweans.
The Bill will certainly bring national reconciliation and I want to talk a little bit on encouraging people to talk about their past. Madam President, I hope this Bill will also deal with issues which have affected war veterans, especially female war veterans; the trauma they went through. That question was raised by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri to say when the mandate of the Commission will start, so that at least we are given an opportunity. A lot has been said about gender based violence, a lot has been said about what happened after independence but not much has been said about what happened before independence. There is a lot of trauma among war veterans, especially women and this is why most of the time when they are interviewed to talk about their past, what comes to them is crying more than talking. What they need to be provided with is a platform to talk about that – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
I would also want to commend this Bill because it is talking about mainstreaming gender and this is what this House has been talking about. The fact that they will establish a gender unit, we applaud that very much. That will provide for an analysis of gender and sex disaggregated data. Most of the time we are talking of whether there is gender balance but if we do not have disaggregated data, we are not able to really understand how much progress we are making in terms of gender balance. It will also identify victims of gender based violence and not just identify them but assess their needs and also make sure that they get back into their communities.
The issue of appointing a gender focal person, we applaud it Hon. Minister in that Bill. We need that to be dealt with. I also want to commend the Minister that they talked about everyone who will appear before the Commission being represented by a legal practitioner but it says at his or her own expense. I am sure you will agree with me that it is a serious problem because most of our people are poor and the legal aid directorate is not really very useful to those who cannot afford to pay for their costs. Otherwise Madam President, I really applaud this Bill and feel that it is time we get moving. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity. I want to thank the Vice President for bringing this Bill before us. I tried to look at the Bill and I think it was an omission. My request is that you make an amendment putting the role of the traditional leaders because chiefs have a role to play when we look at the issues of national reconciliation. If you can find a section where you can include such a clause for the benefit of sustainability. If we leave out the traditional leaders, we would have left out a key stakeholder.
I want to take this opportunity Hon. Vice President to put you to task that the Ministry that you are heading is a big Ministry. Some of us may not know but you head a Ministry that determines the future and life of the people of Zimbabwe. For the past 37 years, our nation became polarized. Currently, we do not have a nation at all. We want to build a nation and your Ministry, Hon. Vice President has the mandate
of building the nation of Zimbabwe, where we will not be segregating each other on the basis of party lines. There are sections that were mentioned by people during the public hearings as they gave their opinions. They requested that the Commission should be independent. We have seen that you quoted Section 235 to emphasise its independent nature and we are happy about it. We said that they did not want evidence to be given in camera.
There are a lot of things that were said by people that are in the Bill and we thank you for that consideration. It is a commitment that you have given us Hon. Vice President as a representative of the nation that you want the fate of Zimbabwe to change. Those who were victims want this legislation to be in place as soon as yesterday. The victims are the ones who are hungry for peace to prevail in this country because they are facing more challenges. As one speaker said, we do not want to have a Commission that is there for window dressing because it will reflect badly on you Hon. Vice President. People will say that when you became Vice President, you presided over a Commission that was a toothless bulldog. We want your legacy to live on so that we can reflect back and say that when Hon. Mphoko was the Vice President, he led the Commission that led to nation building and it is in that Unit that we will see development. We are not at peace although we are not at war.
The definition of peace is not necessarily the absence of war, but there is need for unity and for us to live as a community; even to engage in different religious practices together. That is not in our nation. So, that Bill is going to address the issue of peace. In English, they say the peace in Zimbabwe is negative peace but we hope that what this Bill is going to achieve is positive peace. If we do that, we will have succeeded.
Vice President, what we want to promise you is that we will be there for you. We would also want the whole community from the highest position to the districts and to the wards, that work should be done. As you will be in your office, you will know what is happening in Uzumba, Rusape and in different areas that people will be talking of peace. Rwanda did that and they formed the Magachachas and
meetings were held. Eleven thousand committees were formed in
Rwanda as they addressed the issues of the genocide. We have Gukurahundi victims and we cannot run away from that. We can define them the way we want but at the end of the day, we have victims. We have Murambatsvina, we have June 2008 and we have different issues
that are there.
Let us sit down and talk about it. They say if you talk about what is hurting you, it is actually more soothing than getting money. If I were to come and say I was arrested in such and such a year and was beaten up, I will feel much better because it has a soothing effect. If we do that, we will have succeeded and I hope that will happen. I wish this could happen as soon as yesterday. We are hoping that if possible, this Bill should be signed by next week. Why – because we are going towards an election where a lot of violence takes place and we end up asking whether an election is a good or bad thing. We are supposed to appreciate and to be happy about an election. It is a game that we should have and we should have it in peace, but in Zimbabwe we get to
a point of murdering each other. That is where we are going. We may implement this law after we have murdered each other but what will it help us?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order Hon.
Member, let us avoid sensationalising while we are contributing.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President, but you
are talking to a victim. The moment you tell a victim not to talk ….
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Komichi,
we are assisting each other. I do not want a debate between you and the Presiding Officer. The debate was proceeding quite well and my wish is that the debate proceeds and ends successfully. If you start sensationalising, then there is a difference. You may continue.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I hear you Madam President, I am
your child and I accept the caution but this is the practice that we have to be used to. We are going to meet such sensational feelings. Madam President, we are trying to express ourselves and we are trying to convince the authority of the Vice President. We are applauding him for bringing this Bill. Do you know that the way he changed this Bill, if you compare it with the old Bill…
*HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: On a point of order. Madam
President, the Bill that is before us wants to set up a Commission that will look into the issues of disagreements and violence. So, the moment we start saying we are going to face challenges and we start now, why are we seated here? Let us look at the Bill and consider it and once it has passed and has become law, as legislators we will see that it is implemented. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President. I know
my friend that each time I want to debate he always stands up to give points of order. Let me conclude my debate by saying, I accept and appreciate this Bill. That is why I am speaking in this way and that is why we are giving out to the Vice President that we want to work with him to ensure that there is unity. We are looking forward to a new Zimbabwe so that development can take place. I want to thank you Vice
President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. I just want
to add my voice to this Bill which has been brought by the Vice President in support of it. Madam President, for some of us who have been in this Parliament for a long time, we know where we are coming from and where we are going. I think that it is high time for all of us to accept this Bill because this Bill is trying to reconcile us so that we build our country and move forward. As long as we resist, that means we are not going anywhere – we cannot reconcile, we cannot go ahead with Zimbabwe and we will stay where we are. I do not think that it is a good thing because this is a continuation of where our Hon. late Vice President Nkomo left and they are just continuing from there. As we speak now, the Commission is already in place and it is getting money yet we are still saying we cannot go ahead – till when?
Let us think together; we are the people who are to bring peace in this country if need be because if we agree on this Bill and we go and lecture or create awareness in our constituencies, our people will understand us better for they know us better. We have a duty to perform and there is no need for us to keep on arguing because we are actually wasting time. It is not just because of the elections but even after elections, we want peace in Zimbabwe.
Madam President, I just wanted to add one thing. The thing that I thought maybe would assist is to also include the disabled, the vulnerable groups or at least a member as we would like the chiefs to be there. I think they are part of us and there is no way we can do all our business without them. We have to think of them whenever we are doing this Bill. Without much-a-do Madam President, I beg to support this Bill. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Madam President, I
just have a few comments. Unfortunately when I came in, the Minister was already making his presentation but I think I can make a few meaningful suggestions. For instance, I realised that it looks like the Bill is very focused on the past. But from what is going on so far, when people speak of the past, it actually sets them ablaze, it puts them on fire and they start burning now. They are not burning in the past but they are burning now. So, I think it is important that as part of this Bill and as part of the operation of the National Peace and Reconciliation
Commission, they can also be empowered to instill peace, reconciliation and to encourage people to forgive. Maybe not to forget because that would require rubbing off the memory but at least to be able to forgive or to understand that certain things happened and certain things can happen even now. It is important that in order to be able to go ahead and move forward, we should be able to tackle our situation in a manner that will build Zimbabwe as a nation. I think that is very important.
Then there is Clause 8 (2), when I came in, the Minister was reading that Clause. The official languages of this country, according to the Constitution are about 16 and one of them is sign language. But they say in the Bill that when you present your evidence or your responses, it has to be written or oral. But sign language is not an oral language. Also when they write, most of the Commissioners who are there may not be able to understand what really a hearing impeded person might be trying to say. So, I think it is important that the Minister and the Vice President can take some remedial or accommodative action just to ensure that persons who are deaf or have hearing impediments can also be catered for adequately by this Bill. I want to repeat the call for Government to be able to provide some kind of legal assistance to people who need it. In Clause 10, I think most of the people in our constituency especially the people with disabilities; most of them are part and parcel of poverty. They are actually poverty themselves and Government needs to do something about it.
Then in the copy of the Bill that I read some time back, I think the Commissioners could be given loans and would be able to undertake educational advancement, but I did not hear the Minister reading that part today. Maybe it has been removed. It would be good for me if the Minister could explain whether that part on the issue of loans and advancement of educational qualifications has been removed from the Bill because when I read it, initially I thought these are supposed to be well trained people with a lot of experience. In ten years they want to be advanced educationally and also want to get loans to buy vehicles and houses. What amount are they going to be paid to be able to clear all those loans in ten years? So, maybe the Minister can explain to us and to me, that is part of my concern unless it has probably been dropped out of the Bill. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CARTER: Thank you for this opportunity Madam President. The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission, I would have hoped that there was justice written into that National Peace and Reconciliation but if I look at the functions, (a) to ensure post conflict justice – the word is there. So, that gives me some hope because people who have suffered injustice will need to feel that justice has been achieved for them to forgive. If you look again at (c), the provision of justice is there and that is quite helpful. In the past there are these issues but if you look at the future, I think it talks about in (d), to prevent conflicts and disputes arising in the future. I think at this moment, where we have an election coming, this could be a very powerful Bill if properly instituted to ensure that we have a peaceful election. I think it could be something that we could judge it as to whether we can achieve it. Thank you very much.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam
President. I also rise to add my voice to the Bill. I heard that there will be offices set up in provinces, which is decentralisation. My opinion is that this Bill should be expedited because we all know that our country was under colonial rule and hopefully, that should give us the opportunity to discuss the issues of colonialism because we have quite a number of our people and remains of our ancestors that are outside the country. While these discussions are taking place, there has been no concrete resolution as to what will take place. This includes the skulls and parts of our ancestors.
I am sure that when this Commission is now in place, it will enable us to talk about the issue again and to look at the wealth that was taken by the British and the Americans. I think it will be a very pertinent issue for the Commission as well as having good relationships with those countries. What we aim to achieve is to have good rapport between Zimbabwe and those countries.
We also know that we have children in the diaspora and so, if we discuss those issues and we remain with such concerns, I think justice will not have been done because we were under colonial rule for a long time.
So, I want to thank the Minister and the Vice President for bringing this Bill before this House. For us it is long overdue because right now we could have been somewhere if the Bill had been in place as it gives us an opportunity to air our views, concerns and the pain that we have. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Thank you Madam President. I also rise
to contribute a little bit to this beautiful thing which is seeking for peace in this country, which is something that had dodged us for a long time. Madam President, this is a welcome move because as long as we adhere to the routes through which we can achieve peace, then it is really welcome by everybody. Now, the thing is history is something that one cannot ignore because it is real and it is good for our children to know history. They will look and see what their parents went through.
We have Madam President, a history of doing bad things, being cruel and ruthless to each other. We have got a history of ‘short sleeves’ and ‘long sleeves’ in this country and yet the population is so small. I am happy that if this Bill sails through and we are all serious, we should involve the people who really matter. People like the Chiefs and traditional leaders. Ninety percent of these tragedies happened in the rural areas. So, we must not forget out rural folk. They are human as well. If we say let bygones be bygones, are we all saying it serious because somebody has got itching feet to run after other people or itching hands to beat other people up and that must stop if we are a country which we wish it to be.
Madam President, no one can stop wishing for some reparations if we think of what happened before. We must all take those issues into consideration. It helps both of us; the victim and the perpetrator because the perpetrator does not do things that he really wants to do. It happens also within him. So, a perpetrator is a certain victim with a certain problem that he must also be assisted. There is no normalcy is a person who enjoys cutting the throats of other people, killing and rudeness. No one enjoys all that but some people find themselves in it and when you find yourself in it, you need some help.
So, Madam President, I only stood up to say please if we say these things in this House, the whole world and the country is watching. Our rural folk who have suffered for so many years are also watching. They need us to say things from the bottom of our hearts. As for me, I am saying it from the bottom of my heart. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity. I felt I could not contain what is in my heart because of the good Bill that is before us. I want to thank the Vice President who is leading peace and reconciliation. The issue of peace is very important in a nation. In my opinion, if we politicise this issue we will not be serious in resolving the issue of peace. Peace does not require imitation. I think I have borrowed that word from the English language.
Peace is important in Zimbabwe because there are so many scars that people have. Some scars are political and some are natural.
I am sure you heard that even in homes there is domestic violence. Madam President, the men and women are fighting in homes. Others are murdering each other. Maybe it is because there is too much love or the love is gone. So, this issue is very important. The word reconciliation Madam President refers to forgiving each other and also burying the hatchet. There is nothing that we have welcomed as much as this Commission. Amongst all the other Commissions, they struggle to execute their mandate. My hope is that this Commission with the task and challenges ahead of us; we accept it, hoping that it will carry out its mandate in a transparent, accountable and fair manner. That is our hope Hon. Vice President.
We hope that people would be given a chance to say what is affecting and hurting them. They should not be intimidated and be afraid. I am sure you heard others say that in life there are certain fears that are within people. I know having to rule is a challenge but at times as a leader you need to listen to what others say for you to be able to lead. I heard others say that there should be committees right up to the ward level. We support that. People can be free to say what happened to someone whom they know.
If someone was to sit on Madam President’s Chair, we would sit and look at that person but with you Madam we are used to working with you. So, that is very important because people want someone that they are used to. That is why I am saying the Commission has a huge task ahead. So, we want to thank you for bringing this Bill and we will not compare you with other commissions. This one is about peace and forgiveness and for people to be able to develop. The world is built through unity.
I am almost 70 years old. At times you just see me seated and listening because I want to hear others. Are we going to reach a rallying point of maturity and be able to pull together? Even in this august House Madam. President, it is a challenge. It is not just coming here smartly dressed. There are others who want to know where we are coming from and what is there. So, I want to thank you that the challenges that you are taking on board as a Commission are huge. All we hope to see is work being done well and in a transparent way. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Madam President. I stand to
support the Bill that is before us in this Senate. First of all, I state that we are not debating the content. Almost everybody who stood up is talking about the implementation. This simply means that we are in full agreement that this is an important Bill, but we want to make sure that we are going to implement that Bill to the satisfaction of the nation. I also want to congratulate Zimbabweans for realising that something has gone wrong in the country and that acceptance, I think builds a nation.
We cannot continue burying our heads in the sand and say we are a peaceful nation. There are things that are very clear that show that we have not been living in peace. I want to say that it is not only different political parties that are in conflict. We also have intra-party conflict and I think that also disturbs peace in the nation. Normally, this comes through hate speech and hate language. So, as we have the Bill before
us, let us all try in our political parties; intra and inter, to make sure that we tolerate our differences because the moment we start tolerating one another, we can move the nation forward.
It is also important Madam President that we realise that there are other organisations that have been dealing with peace issues. I want to believe that with the coming in of the Bill into existence, we will not forget that there are efforts already where people are dealing with peace issues, that we should accommodate and include them so that the Bill will be implemented looking at the issues that affect the people on a day to day basis. I want to thank the Minister and the Vice President for bringing this Bill. I want to believe that we are going to implement all the issues that have been brought forward by the communities as they were consulted. Thank you Madam President.
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): Thank you Madam
President and thank you very much Hon. Members for all your valid contributions. I will attempt to respond to all questions that were raised.
Some might have been lost in translation because of the language barrier but I noticed that a lot of the issues were being repeated. So, if there is any issue that I might have skipped that you feel is important, please do
raise it.
The first issue that I would like to respond to is the issue of the protection of witnesses. It was raised that there is concern that witnesses should be protected and this issue is covered in the Bill under Clause 13(2) which talks about other offenses. It clearly spells out that any person who threatens, victimises, assaults or does anything whatever calculated to harm or to prejudice the rights or interests of any person by reason of that other person having testified or appeared before the
Commission or any of the Commission’s Committees shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 12 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding ten years, or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
So, the issue of witnesses is taken care of in the Bill. There is also the issue of legal services which I read out and I noted that it was raised by three Senators. I want to highlight Clause 10, where I raised the issue and where it was debated. Clause 10(4) is the one that I read which says
“Any person appearing before the Commission may be represented by a legal practitioner at his/her own expense”. The following Clause 5, goes on to say, “the Commission may recommend to the Director of the Legal Aid Directorate that any person who is about to give or is giving evidence before the Commission shall be provided with legal aid, and the Director shall take action on such a recommendation as if it had been made by a court in terms of Section 10 of the Legal Aid Act Chapter 17(16). So that provision is also made in the Bill as well. So, there are two options.
There is the issue of staff recruitment where it was raised that the Commission must be free to recruit staff. In Clause 14 of the Bill, it highlights on Subsection (2) that subject to Section 234 of the
Constitution, the Commission shall appoint the Executive Secretary and staff of the Commission. So, the Commission is allowed to do that.
There was a question that was raised of whether the ten year period of the Commission is going to be extended. According to the Bill, the Commission will run for a ten year period after the effective date, and it has been agreed that the effective date is the date that the President was sworn in. So, unfortunately it means that time has already elapsed in the ten year period. However, it is up to the President to also extend this term if it may be necessary.
The next one was the issue of gender which was raised that there must be balance. I think when I read the statement; I initially mentioned that there is a clause on gender that speaks of a gender unit that will cover all necessary gender related issues, including the issue of balance.
We then go to the issue of inclusion of chiefs as a relevant part of dealing with peace and reconciliation. We agree that chiefs are an important element of our community and they play a huge role in making sure that there is peace and healing. According to Section 252 (d) of our National Constitution says part of the functions of the Commission is to develop procedures and institutions at a national level to facilitate dialogue among political parties, communities, organisations and other groups in order to prevent conflict and disputes arising in the future.
So, there is no limit as to who should be involved in the process of National Healing and in the process of investigations and chiefs are part of that integral part that should involved. It is not the chiefs alone, but the Commission as they do their work can incorporate as many people as they deem fit to deal with issues on a case by case basis. There was also an issue of the Bill being focused on the past. The Bill is not focused on the past alone. It is also a futuristic Bill which deals with issues that may arise and preventing conflict. When you want to prevent, it means you also want to maintain a stable and peaceful environment at all times.
So, Section 252 (g) of the Constitution states that part of the functions of the Commission is to develop mechanisms for early detection of areas of potential conflict and disputes and to take appropriate preventive measures. Therefore, it is not just dealing with the past but it is also making sure that peace is maintained at all times and also conflicts are prevented.
There was an issue of loans of the Commissioners and educational advancement. This issue was in the Second Schedule but we have since removed that from the Bill because there were concerns that this may become an expense to the Government, the State, the tax payer and Commissioners may start concentrating more on getting stands, houses, buildings and not actually the work that they are supposed to do. We made an adjustment so that they are employed according to the general conditions of service. The issue of sign language and braille that was raised, I think maybe the Hon. Member had not understood exactly where it was coming up. He is talking about it in the general sense of how to conduct the issues but where we refer to issues presented in writing is under Clause 10(3), which says, “the Commission shall afford any person who is alleged to be directly or indirectly responsible for perpetrating, implementing, perpetuating or permitting the continuance of any violence, dispute or conflict 14 working days from the date when he or she is notified of the allegations in writing by the Commission to respond to such allegations in writing.” So, this has to do with someone who has been accused of a certain crime and they have to respond. This response must be given in writing. It does not have anything to do with the manner which people present issues before the Commission, so those are two separate issues. Madam President, I hope I have not left any important issue out. These are the responses that I have for now. I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave; forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B.2A, 2016]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 18 put and agreed to.
First and Second Schedules put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL
[H.B. 2A, 2017]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): Madam President, I
move that the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th October, 2017.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE FIRST REPORT OF
THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON PEACE AND SECURITY ON
THE PREPAREDNESS OF THE GRAIN MARKETING BOARD TO
HANDLE THE 2016/2017 CROP DELIVERIES AND THE SUCCESS
OF THE COMMAND AGRICULTURE PROGRAMME ON THE
ORDER PAPER
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Mr. President, I just want to move the motion standing in my name.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I second.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: It is a brief introduction and I am not going to read anything. I just propose for the reinstatement of the report which I made and which was superseded by the last session so that it be reinstated on the Order Paper and people can start debating it from the point where we left it. Those who have already contributed will not contribute again but, those who have not yet done so will do so. I thank you Mr. President.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Eight Minutes past
Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 17th October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
I just want to acknowledge and congratulate, I know it is unparliamentary to call a Minister a stranger in the House but we want to appreciate the new Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Minister, welcome to Parliament. I do not know how you are going to manage, it is a very difficult platform, this one – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, you want to
instill fear in the Minister. Hon. Member, can you proceed.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: He is also my Minister from the
professional side because I am a legal practitioner, he is our Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. Welcome Hon. Minister –
[HON. ZWIZWAI: No more dark glasses.] -
TABLING OF REPORT
ZIMBABWE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION REPORT 2016
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. BONYONGWE): Madam
Speaker, allow me to start by acknowledging the very warm welcome remarks which have been extended to me by Hon. Chamisa who spoke before me and of course all the very good congratulatory messages which I have received from some Hon. Members of the House. Thank you very much indeed.
Madam Speaker, in my capacity as the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, allow me to table the report of the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission for the year 2016. In that regard, Section 323 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that every Commission must submit to Parliament through the responsible Minister an annual report describing fully its operations and activities. In observance of this Constitutional requirement, I therefore, lay upon the table the Zimbabwe
Human Rights Commission Annual Report for 2016. I submit Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Aiwa
Leader of the House varipo….] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Zwizwai,
I am the one who is presiding, what is wrong with you – [HON.
ZWIZWAI: Aah zvavaiita zviya zviya na Vice President ….] – Hon. Zwizwai, I can send you out because you are talkative. You do not behave like an Hon. Member of Parliament, why? – [Laughter.] -
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that
Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders on today’s Order Paper have been dealt with.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE WORLD TRADE ORGANISATION
TRADE FACILITATION AGREEMENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the WTO Agreement.
HON. KWARAMBA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 31st October, 2017.
SECOND READING
INSOLVENCY BILL [H.B.11, 2016]
Fifth Order read: Second Reading: Insolvency Bill [H.B.11, 2016].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. RTD. MAJ. GEN.
BONYONGWE): Madam Speaker, I move that we adjourn debate on
the Insolvency Bill for the reason that there are some public hearings which are still underway. We also have some consultancy whom we are awaiting a report on the said Bill.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 31st October, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Order of the Day Number six be
stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day are disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
RECOMMITTAL TO COMMITTEE STAGE
LAND COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 2B, 2016]
Seventh Order read: Recommittal Committee: Land Commission Bill [H.B. 2B, 2016].
House in Committee.
On Clause 2:
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Thank you
Madam Chair. Between lines 32 and 33 on page 9 of the Bill, it was suggested in the Senate to insert the following definition, I submit that the inclusion of the National Council of Chiefs in the interpretation section is not supported since the reason for its inclusion is to introduce subsequent clauses. Since those subsequent clauses are not supported then, this amendment falls away.
Amendment to Clause 2 put and negatived.
Clause 2, as amended, put and negatived.
On Clause 3:
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Thank you
Madam Chair. The suggested amendment is between lines 35 and 36 on page 9 of the Bill where it is suggested to insert the following clause in part two of the Bill, the remaining clauses being renumbered accordingly. I submit that the establishment and composition of the Commission are provided for under Section 296 of the Constitution which states that members be chosen firstly for certain qualities, integrity and competence in and knowledge and understanding of the best practices in Land Management and Administration and secondly, the membership must reflect the diversity of Zimbabwe’s population in particular, its regional interest and gender balance. Chiefs who have the requisite qualification are included in this constitutional provision. There is thus no need to single out a category of people for appointment to the Commission. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much, I would like to concur with the Minister in that if you look at the Constitution, it sets out the parameters of how Commissions are to be set out, whereas the amendment seeks to smuggle in a further procedure to appoint members of Commissions into the Constitution, which is unconstitutional.
The other reason is that if you look at the Constitution in Section 2 on the Supremacy of the Constitution, it speaks about the institution of Chiefs as the custodians of our culture. In other words, the chiefs are the custodians of our customary law. What they are now intending to do is, they want to be included as a specific group in an area which is not dealing with customary law and they are now extending their mandate which is not provided for in the Constitution to areas which are governed by general law.
I will point out that if you go to the Traditional Leaders Act, Section 29, it speaks about the jurisdiction of the area of chiefs and it specifies that chiefs have got jurisdiction over communities in the area in which they control and if you go to the definition section it will clearly state that the communities means people, it does not mean land. So, whatever that amendment seeks to do, it is at variance with the Traditional Leaders Act and the Constitution. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Hon. Speaker, it is just to buttress...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members.
Can Hon. Nduma be heard in silence?
HON. NDUNA: Just to buttress what the Hon. Minister has alluded to and subsequently what Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi, Chairperson of the Justice Parliamentary Committee, has also buttressed. Madam Speaker, it is my fervent view that irrespective of the fact that everybody has been included in terms of a bias towards qualification in the Commission, it is stated in the Constitution that the State must also take reasonable steps to have both affirmative action and also a bias toward ameliorating the plight of the differently abled or the disabled.
It should be an unspoken rule of thumb that the Minister, the appointing authority, should also somehow have a bias towards the differently abled or the disabled of our community in the same way that they are going to be appointing the Commissioners, aware that 10% of our population is differently abled and also aware that every able bodied person is five minutes away from being differently abled or from being disabled due to road carnage. So, it is my prayer and fervent hope that let it be an unspoken rule of thumb that the Minister can also have a bias towards the differently abled of our community, I thank you.
HON. DR. MOMBESHORA: Thank you Madam Chair. I just want to say thank you very much for all those members who have contributed. I think everything is very clear. I think we can move forward. Thank you.
Clause 3, as amended, put and negatived.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Chair, there has been some bit of manipulation and distortion of the will of the people, particularly the will of Parliamentarians. I am not so sure what we are voting for – [AN HON. MEMBERS: Wangausipo.] – yes, we just heard the noes have it. We do not know what we are saying no to – [AN HON. MEMBER: It has been on the Order Paper for the past months.]
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Chamisa, can
you please speak to the Chair. What is your issue? The issue is that this Bill was given to all Members of Parliament a long time ago and you are supposed to be knowing what is happening right now.
On Clause 37:
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Madam Chair, it
was suggested that between lines 43 on page 21 of the Bill and line 1 on page 22 to insert the following sub-clause, the remaining sub-clauses being renumbered accordingly. I submit that chiefs can approach the
Minister directly and ask to have names of suitably qualified – [ HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members.
I think the Minister is saying something. You are supposed to be listening - Hon. Sithole, over there.
HON. DR. MOMBESHORE: Madam Chair, allow me to repeat. I submit that chiefs can approach the Minister directly and ask to have names of suitably qualified members considered as assessors. There is no need to write this into legislation. It is an issue that has an administrative remedy. I submit, Madam Chair.
Clause 37, as amended, put and negatived.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
LAND COMMISSION BILL [H. B. 2B, 2016]
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENTS (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Mr. Speaker, I
now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker I move that Orders of the Day
Numbers 8, 9 and 10 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eleventh Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. NHAMBU: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker, allow me to make my contribution towards the speech by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. R. G. Mugabe on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament of Zimbabwe on 12th September, 2017. My contribution shall also constitute my maiden speech as an Hon. Member of Parliament for Kuwadzana Constituency.
Mr. Speaker Sir, before I dwell much on the details of my speech, allow me to begin by acknowledging the support that I received from His Excellency, Cde. R. G. Mugabe and Amai Dr. Grace Mugabe, my party ZANU PF on my journey to this august House… - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order Hon. Members, please let us listen to the Hon. Member in silence.
HON. NHAMBU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, the people of Kuwadzana Constituency, I recognise you for the continued support during the pre and post election era. Credit goes to my beloved people of Kuwadzana Constituency for trusting me and I promise to work to the best of my ability.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank you and also thank fellow Hon. Members of Parliament across the political divide. I value your warm welcome and the conducive environment you created whilst I learnt and acclimatized to the rules and procedures of this august House.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the speech by His Excellency the President, Cde.
- G. Mugabe is alive to the situation in my Constituency. Kuwadzana
Constituency is in Harare Metropolitan Province, total population as per 2012 census was estimated at 90 292 with a 55 to 45 female to male ratio. Due to the ever increasing rural to urban migration and the evident pressure on social amenities, I estimate the revised … - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members, I
can hardly hear what she is debating. – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Inaudible interjections.] – Then you are making noise as well, may you proceed Hon. Member.
HON. NHAMBU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. His Excellency
the President, Cde. R. G. Mugabe set direction for the session of
Parliament to consider among other things the Marriages Bill. My Constituency has been spared by the curse of early child marriages. This has seen a rise in children dropping out of schools. The death rate of young girls during labour is also on the rise in my constituency.
Related to early child marriages and the health challenges associated with this curse, my constituency has only one satellite clinic. With the population statistics given above, the clinic cannot cope with demand. Provision of more health facilities in my constituency and other constituencies will assist in managing the mortality rate of those who have been exposed already to early child marriages.
His Excellency Cde. R. G. Mugabe touched on yet another important legislation to be tabled before this House, the Child Justice Bill. This Bill will be handy in handling children who are at variance with the law. The Cyber Crime and Cyber Security Bill targeted at fighting technological crimes are very handy in this era of technological advancement. The Mandatory Sentencing for Rape and Sexual Abuse is also important in curbing the scourge of rape. Mr. Speaker Sir, my constituency is supportive of all these developments. However, let me bring to your attention that Kuwadzana Constituency does not have a proper police station. Our police officers are sometimes overwhelmed by the number of cases and crime scenes they are supposed to attend to due to the population size of my constituency. Mobility challenge is also a huge problem to the police’s effectiveness. My constituency is therefore appealing to the relevant Ministry for the construction of more police stations.
My constituency stands by the President’s words on economic revival through agriculture and mining. However, our efforts to complement the call by the President are often suppressed by outdated local authorities laws that prohibit agriculture in urban areas. It is high time such pieces of legislation are repealed to allow the urban population to contribute towards food security of the country.
My constituency has not been spared by the effects of climatic change largely owing to human actions. The non-collection of garbage and malfunctioning drainage system has caused flooding in urban areas. I am certain that the Disaster and Risk Management Bill will bring relief to some natural and man induced disasters which we are facing in the urban areas.
Mr. Speaker Sir, people continue to be robbed of their hard earned income by land barons and immoral people. A number of such cases continue to be recorded in my constituency. The two Bills namely: Land Development Bill and Co-operative Societies Amendment Bill are therefore a welcome development which I have no doubt will address comprehensively the challenges imposed by these fraudsters in our communities.
This is my contribution towards the Presidential Agenda Setting Speech. Allow me this moment to seize this opportunity to touch on other areas very crucial to my constituency.
Education facilities
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is a shortage of schools in my constituency. The research I conducted on school going population in the three wards of my constituency compared to the available public schools revealed that on average, each ward has got more than 3500 secondary school going population and more than 6200 primary school going population. With the current one secondary school and three primary schools in Ward 38, on average, each school must contain 2065 children for primary and 3500 for secondary education. For Ward 44, the one available primary school will accommodate 2065 children and the remaining 3500 will not go for secondary education since there is no secondary school. In Ward 45, each primary school will accommodate 3100 and 2065 for secondary since there are two primary schools and one secondary school. With the current available facilities, the teacher pupil ratio is not acceptable. The obtaining shortage in public schools has seen the sprouting up of private colleges whose fees are very high and unaffordable to most of the parents. I therefore kindly request our Government, through the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education and relevant stakeholders, to consider construction of more schools.
Empowerment programmes for women and youth
Small and Medium enterprises as well as cooperatives continue to play a critical role in the provision of employment and livelihood for a large number of families. It is not a secret Mr. Speaker Sir that Zimbabwe is currently going through a difficult phase economically because of the illegal sanctions imposed by our enemies. This has seen a number of our industries being closed and those that have remained open are operating at very low capacity. The local costs of production are unbearably high for a final product to compete with imported similar or substitute products. Resultantly, the once vibrant sources of employment, the industries have closed leaving a majority of our economically active age groups in the streets. A majority of the women and youth in my constituency are unemployed and suffering. Some go for days without meals.
In light of the above, I therefore, implore the relevant Ministries in line with Indigenisation and Empowerment Act to allocate land for home industries, Vocational Training Centres (VTC), provide soft loans for our youths and women for projects and city council to regularise the vending stalls, flee-markets and car parks in the constituency.
Clean Water Provision
I would like to give many thanks to the Ministry of Water for the support they always give to my constituency and I humbly ask them to continue supporting my constituency. Mr. Speaker, Sir, due to an ever increasing urban population, there has been a significant pressure on the provision of adequate and reliable clean water. At least four days of the week, my constituency does not have running water. This creates a real health hazard. I therefore, kindly request the responsible Ministry to prioritise drilling of boreholes, not only in the rural areas but in the urban centres too.
Roads Rehabilitation
Mr. Speaker Sir, the roads in the location are now an eyesore. I implore the relevant Ministry, in conjunction with City of Harare, to move with speed to rectify the situation, especially in Kuwadzana
Constituency.
Projects and Works Completed to Date
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me bring to your attention that we are not folding our hands waiting for Government Departments to come and do various projects in the constituency. We have been very innovative and with limited resources from cooperating partners and sometimes we are forced to dig deep into our pockets, we have implemented a number of projects prior and post election period. These include, rehabilitation of five main feeder roads in all the wards in my constituency, drilling boreholes in each district and rehabilitation of non-functioning boreholes, repair of non-functioning tower lights and still facilitating the erection of new tower lights in areas where they are non-existent especially in Kuwadzana Phase and Kuwadzana Extension, facilitating of land for residential stands and commercials. I would like to give many thanks to the Ministry of Local Government, Rural Development and
National Housing for the land to the youth and the people of
Kuwadzana.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me extend a warm hand to all stakeholders in the constituency and from across the political divide. Let us unite for the betterment of the people of Kuwadzana. A successful Kuwadzana is a successful Harare. A successful Harare is a successful Zimbabwe. I thank you.
HON. MUSABAYANA: I will start my speech with a quote from
the Book of Ezekiel 24 verse 27. “At that time your mouth will be opened; you will speak with him and will no longer be silent. So you will be a sign to them and they will know that I am LORD”. So my long wait to speak in this august House is over today. I will be participating in all the debates.
My name is David Musabayana. I hail from the peculiar Constituency of Hwedza North. You will know why it is a peculiar constituency. In rising to give my first speech, I am deeply humbled and greatly honoured that Hwedza North Constituency elected me to this Legislative Assembly. It is a privilege and a heavy responsibility bestowed on very few Zimbabweans and I extend my warmest congratulations to all other new legislators. While optimistic about the future of our Zimbabwe, I am neither blind to the challenges confronting us, nor unwilling to tackle them. As is tradition in a first speech, I will share a snap shot of my constituency profile and the story of my life and how it will shape my approach in this Eighth Parliament. I am the sixth legislator to represent Hwedza North Constituency after my revered predecessors, the late Cde Simon Musanhu; Cde Gibson Mujeyi, a respected war veteran of the armed struggle; Cde Aeneas Chigwedere, an esteemed historian of our time; the late Cde Stanlake Marwodzi and our forerunner Member of Parliament, the late Joseph Jekanyika. My constituency is in Mashonaland East Province. My constituency is a combination of rural wards where 7 wards belong to Hwedza Rural District Council and 2 wards (5 and 8) belong to
Marondera Rural District Council. The constituency population is 42
645, comprising 21 204 men and 23 041 women as per the Census
Report of 2012. The constituency’s population houses about 10 273 households with an average household size of 5 people. The population is generally characterised by more females than males, which is a national trend. Wards 5, 6 and 15 of Hwedza District are communal lands and the rest are self contained plots, A1 model and A2 model schemes and farms owned by the indigenous commercial farmers. My constituency has three chiefs namely Chief Nyahuye waSvosve, Chief Gahadza waSvosve in part of Ward 5 and Chief
Nyandoro of Ward 8. I am a descendant of Chief Nyahuye waSvosve, so
I named my farm “Origiland Farming” meaning I have come back to my roots. We are the “Jena” clan.
What is peculiar about Hwedza North? Hwedza North
Constituency has a great mining heritage. According to Golden
Guvamatanga’s article on June 2017 publication titled The History of Pre-colonial mining in Zimbabwe – Iron forging technology that produced complete hoes without any welding was developed around the Hwedza Mountain. This is where I hail from. The mining industry of today has a lot to learn from pre-colonial Great Zimbabwe and all colonial mining prospecting has to acknowledge that it was guided by pre-colonial workings. Disappointing is the fact that modern day Zimbabwe has dismally failed to ride on this great mining heritage. It is in the early Iron Age that a new economy driven mainly by mining, spread rapidly from about 1000AD. Mr. Speaker Sir, this underpins the fact that part of the development of this country owes it to the exploitation of Hwedza North’s medieval resources.
The fast track Land Reform Programme started in Hwedza North
Constituency. The launch pad for the Third Chimurenga was Hwedza
North Constituency. In June 1998, the Svosve people of Marondera and
Hwedza Districts undertook a series of the then called “illegal farm occupations”. As we all know today, it has become the legal thing that every Zimbabwean aspires to have. This was in Ward 5 of Marondera in my constituency.
This is the only place in Southern Africa where you find the white and black intensive rhino breeding station taking place. Imire Conservancy Game park has the big four animals, except the leopard and it is home to a diverse species of birds and animals. We are planning to introduce the leopard so that the constituency is home to the big five.
TOURISM
The fourth reason why Hwedza North is such a peculiar constituency is the issue of tourism. Hwedza Mountain is sought for its historical and cultural heritage. It is a sacred mountain and it is registered under the National Monuments. Mhakwe Mountain is also a sacred registered national monument with spectacular bush mountains. Mudzimu Weshiri Falls is a sacred falls that are reminiscent of the
Victoria Falls. For those who find it expensive to go to Victoria Falls, you just come to Hwedza North Constituency and visit the Mudzimu Weshiri Falls. There is everything if not more of an environment befitting to be called a Five Star tourist destination.
HORTICULTURE AND TOBACCO FARMING
The horticulture and tobacco farming, the central watershed borders my constituency, hence the niche climate that supports quality tobacco styles, horticulture and dairy farming. Horticulture exporters are Rolex who are the former Mitchel and Mitchel.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have been talking to you in the last few minutes and maybe you are wondering who this man is. I am now going to talk about my history. I have much to be thankful for being born in Mutare in the decade I was for the close, supportive and loving family that I have; for my partner who is my flesh and my bone of my bone, Nyemudzai and for my friends who have supported me along the way. I am also grateful to my wife and generous mentors for the opportunity they have encouraged me to pursue.
I arrived in this place after diverse and rewarding careers in farming, tourism and hospitality industry, baking industry, information and technology industry and the mining industry. I graduated from the University of Zimbabwe not really knowing what I wanted to do with my life. After so many years in a white collar job, I had found my first great passion in life, thanks to the timely Land Reform Programme. Now, I am a very proud tobacco farmer. Thirteen years of tobacco farming and self-management has shaped me in innumerable ways. I would not have changed a day of it even the toughest ones when I arrived home dirty, exhausted and tested beyond what I thought I could endure. As a tobacco farmer, I have learnt to work results and not time, a philosophy which this august House can also adopt in order to dispose of all the outstanding Bills to align our laws to the Constitution.
Like thousands of other land reform farmers, I have quietly and seamlessly blended corporate skills into farming life. From my post graduate strategy programme, I was taught critical-thinking skills, to analyse problems, recommend solutions and put forward implementation and follow up templates. You never take a problem forward without having options to address it and an implementation strategy. Most Government programmes are beautiful on paper but they fail on implementation. Effective implementation is lacking in most of our policies and Government programmes.
The Nottingham Trent University taught me how to plan, manage and work as teams to deliver results. I am sure that most of you will agree with me that Zimbabwe has great scholars but the challenge is working as teams to achieve great results reflecting level of skills. We lack goal congruency in our approach to our challenges which bedevil this economy.
Mr. Speaker Sir, coming into Parliament on the 35th birthday of the ZANU PF party, I have reflected on why I am ZANU PF and the values that continue to shape me. I joined the party in 1994 as a university student. Having been lucky to get a job as a research assistant in the Minerals Economic Department, we were tasked to do a pilot study on gold panning in Chiweshe and the party card was going to be handy as a passport. I had to travel all the way to Highfield Suburb to get a passport, little did I know that the journey into politics at default had begun. Slowly I found my philosophical roots and my second great passion in life. I also found lifelong friendships, some of whom are in this Chamber today on both sides of the aisle. With my short stint in this august House, I have found that policy making becomes easier when you have clear philosophical and moral principles to guide you.
I am a product of an extended family of 19 children that has always worked hard for its success. I started to supplement on my education from Grade 7 to university level. Through this tough experience, I have experienced what it takes to start, fail, restart and grow businesses, big and small.
I bring to this august House my different participatory roles as an ex-parastatal employee, a corporate employee, farmers’ union leader, farmers’ association leader and a practicing entrepreneur. I have been inspired and forever changed by the lives of the people that I worked with in this country - their stories and their courage in fighting for what we take for granted.
In contrast, our country was born out of talk and war. Our nation is a testament to what can be achieved peacefully and with an enduring spirit of co-operation and compromise. The extensive deliberations and compromises of our own founding ancestors - the Sekuru Kaguvis, the Mbuya Nehandas and the Lobengulas delivered us an enduring and robust country, but not a perfect one.
I have also witnessed that democracies overseas succeed and sometimes fail. I now understand that there is no perfect democracy or a perfect Constitution. It is up to all participants, and especially us in this place to make the rules that we have work and to find a way to come back together after a conflict and division.
To maintain and strengthen our democracy, we must first truly understand it like said by President Franklin Roosevelt - “Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express the choices are prepared to choose wisely”. The real safeguard of democracy therefore, is education, which is what our Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces Cde. Robert Mugabe has done since independence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, now allow me to take a bite on the piece of cake that was delivered by the Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the
Zimbabwe Defence Forces, Cde. R.G. Mugabe. Allow me to thank the
President for delivering a smart agenda for the final Session of the
Eighth Parliament. I call it “smart” because the business that we have to do is very specific. We know the laws that are to be amended – easy and very measurable because if we fail we know the business we would have failed to dispose of.
The work cut out for us is quite attainable if all Members take the business of the House seriously. I am proud of you Hon. Members that we can attain this fit. Given our mandate and the aptitude and dexterity of handling legislative matters in this august House has displayed that the President has set a very realistic task. Mr. Speaker Sir, Let it be clear in every Hon. Member’s mind that we were given a specific window to complete the work clearly and smartly out for us.
The Head of State, in his opening remarks, talked about the successes of Command Agriculture and the bright future ahead. Mr. Speaker, economics is very simple because it says - just concentrate on what you are gifted on and you will make money. Zimbabwe has a comparative advantage in agriculture and thus, any development of capital in this sector will yield results. Because of our niche climate conditions, agriculture is one of the low hanging fruits. Mr. Speaker, Command Agriculture was a breath to the dry bonds of our farmers. All forms of land owners have been resurrected to another economic life. Hwedza had a thousand participants but only 50% got the requisite inputs to produce a decent crop. Most of the inputs did not reach the farmers on time.
This 2017/18 agricultural season, more than 5 000 farmers have registered for the Command Agriculture. However, our farmers most of whom could not fully pay because of excessive rains and inadequate inputs, unfortunately the responsible authorities have directed that only fully paid up farmers get 2017/18 inputs without looking at the circumstances that affect the farmer.
May I hasten to say, while we celebrate the buoyance brought about by Command Agriculture, there are some hygienic issues that need sanitising before the demon/vampires of corruption creeps in to feed on unsuspecting farmer. How does the Government of Zimbabwe allow a farmer to sign a contract farming document without input prices? Is this not like signing off a blank cheque? Last season, farmers were made to sign contract documents without prices for inputs.
Government is now working to consolidate agriculture through, among other things, investing more resources in water harvesting and irrigation development. Mr. Speaker Sir, Hwedza North has huge water bodies, perennial dams, perennial rivers and seasonal weirs, both manmade and natural. However, utilisation is around 15% due to lack of irrigation equipment and electricity to power irrigation schemes. Not a single meaningful irrigation scheme has been rehabilitated or initiatedin Hwedza North Constituency. Mr. Speaker, your heart will bleed if you visit Bita Dam – 170 hectares irrigable land but ZESA has failed to repair 19 pylons that fell in 2009. Sheffield, Bolton Chimusoro Dam Ward 5, Maphimha Irrigation Scheme in Ward 2, Mhakwe Irrigation
Scheme in Ward 2, Leads, Chard, Collace, Igudu, Ifudu, Zana, Hare Irrigation Scheme and Scorror Dam are all lying idle. Crops dry off while the community is starring at water bodies. We talk of draught yet constituents are drowning every week. Unfortunately, these dams are just for fishmongers because the laws prohibit daylight fishing.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the water harvesting investment will go a long way in mitigating adverse weather patterns and assist in winter cropping for Mubaiwa Ward 6, Makwarimba Ward 5, Zana Ward 4 and Ward 8 of Marondera. These wards do not have dams. Borehole drilling, weir drilling and dams will come handy for these farmers. His Excellency, President Mugabe said a number of Bills to improve the business environment would be tabled for debate.
In addition, the Labour Law Amendment Bill which seeks to address stakeholders’ concerns relating to labour market flexibility and job security will soon be tabled before this House. The Public Entities and Corporate Governance Bill already before Parliament will bolster the fight against corruption and other corporate governance Bills afflicting our public entities.
Mr. Speaker Sir, while Zuva Case opened a Pandora box by pushing industrial relations out of perspective, our labour laws are out of speed with global and international standards. Labour markets are now skewed towards perfectly competitive markets. Laws that make it difficult to dismiss employees will inadvertently shift the labour demand curve, thus increasing unemployment levels. Stringent labour laws meant to protect jobs unfortunately have a self-fulfilling prophecy of reducing demand for jobs, thus increasing unemployment. Whereas softening labour laws will in the long-run reduce labour capital substitution and thus increase employment levels. However, the Zuva
Case was a diabolic thump suck plot. It is sad that the country is
labelled as high unemployment yet there is serious seasonal shortage of labour in tobacco and horticulture sectors during peak demand. While laws alignment will solve half the employment problems, our mindset about employment also needs realignment with the job market dictates.
To enhance national economic competitiveness and the country’s appeal as an investment destination, Government has embarked on reforms to improve the domestic business environment. I understand therefore, that Government does not generate national wealth; productive and competitive free markets does. I believe in enabling initiative, competition and productivity, not in killing it through protection, subsidies and red tape. I believe we must legislate sparingly and wisely so as not to impede the majority of hardworking Zimbabweans who are doing the right thing. I believe governments must provide equality of opportunities, not seek equality of outcomes. I believe in the principle of freedom through the law but I also understand that in a democracy, freedoms are never fully free. So, we must all be eternally vigilant to ensure their protections and limit their restrictions.
Thus, the alignment of these laws as articulated by the President, Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces, His
Excellency President Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe should be within the principles of justice, simplicity and enabling business to prosper.
Mr. Speaker Sir, President Mugabe said the sustained growth of the mining sector’s contribution to the country’s GDP hinged on the full implementation of beneficiation and value addition. He called for the expeditious finalisation of Parliament scrutiny of the Mines and Mineral Amendment Bill and the Mineral Exploration and Marketing
Corporation Bill. Furthermore, to curb mineral leakages, amendments to the Gold Trade Act and the Precious Stones Trade Act will be tabled for consideration during this Session. Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not think we are serious about prosperity as a nation. We behave and act as if all is well. This country is heavily endowed with mineral deposits but an albatross of colonial laws hamstrung us.
Mr. Speaker, volumes and volumes of researches and recommendations on the best way to align and deal with mining laws, particularly for artisanal gold panners are accumulating dust in our libraries. Mr. Speaker, a must read book for this debate is the book titled, The Socio Economic and Environmental Impact of Artisanal
Small Scale Gold Panning in Zimbabwe, co-authored by Dr. O. Maponga and yours truly, Musabayana David (1996). It is an expose of the retrogressive nature of our mining laws. The colonial laws ignored the fact that some deposits are not viable for commercial exploitation but just small-scale operation. Hwedza North has huge deposits in Gomo reHwedza, Nyamidzi, Save and Jekwa areas. Communities have shunned the enterprise after seeing their friends rot in jail for trying to fend and earn a living from dignified work. After all the sweating and bleeding, you are treated and sentenced at a higher scale than an armed robber.
Our President spoke emotionally about gender-based violence in his December 2016 SONA, and again he has asked for the disposal of the Child Justice Bill and the Marriage Bill to establish a child justice system and outlaw child marriages, his agenda setting speech. Indeed, Hwedza North has not been spared the wrath of gender based violence particularly the girl child. In areas taken over by the land reform, there are very few secondary schools. Children walk an average of fifteen kilometres one way. Most girls are either seduced or raped on their way back from school as they reach home in the wee hours of the night. It is sad to note that the Government arms have not prioritised these schools. Sig is standard $4 500 per annum and has not done enough to increase schools. Mr. Speaker Sir, Hwedza Growth Point has been hit by a new spate of rape cases where mothers who sell sex and bring their clients home have exposed their girl child to rape cases. Rape cases of mentally disadvantaged children are also out of hand as these children are left unattended. It has been very difficult to bring these perpetrators to book.
In light of the above, I concur with His Excellency’s concern at incidences of rape. As people of Hwedza North, we cannot wait for the Bill to provide mandatory sentencing to be brought to Parliament. Mr. Speaker Sir, on the Cooperative Societies Amendment Bill meant to strengthen regulation of cooperatives, Hwedza North has readied itself for this legislation. This year alone, we have registered more than 100 cooperatives. Thus to say, Hwedza is moving in season with executive thinking and constitutional realm of this country. Comprehensive Cooperative Societies Amendment Bill will go a long way in protecting cooperatives from dysfunctional behaviour and group storming that degenerate into unfair disbandling of cooperative assets. I have seen cooperatives cutting a layers’ hen into four pieces in the name of sharing cooperative assets.
Mr. Speaker, on the Cyber Crime and Cyber Security Bill, it was long overdue. Any further delay in expediting and disposing of this Bill will spell doom to this nation. Nations have seen uprisings, the Arab Springs and the failed attempts in Zimbabwe. Mr. Speaker Sir, we cannot underrate cyber terrorism, fake news manufactured and disseminated through social media. Our nation has gone through the current challenges of cash shortages after a bank rum on the eve of the bond note introduction. Fake news were generated to the effect that the Zimbabwe Dollar was being smuggled back under the guise of bond notes. Although this was meant to spur the economy by incentivising exports, there was a rebuff caused by the resultant bank rum.
The President also talked about the use of ICT to do commerce. Mr. Speaker Sir, while we accept and embrace electronic commerce of doing business, with the cash shortages, surely plastic and mobile money are the way to go but there is no platform to do it efficiently in Hwedza. The mobile base stations in Hwedza North are only three, for the other two are right at the borders with other constituencies. The network coverage is about 25%, meaning only 25% of the population have access to mobile and plastic money. We need at least 15 base stations for Hwedza to be included in the e-commerce platform.
Mr. Speaker, the President talked about aligning laws so that we enhance the ease of doing business and raise our competitiveness barometer. This is only a dream for Hwedza given its remoteness. Hwedza, is only 100km from Harare but due to roads in bad shape, my constituents pay bus fares commensurate to people travelling to Mutare,
270km away. The Mhendamwe/Mushandirapamwe strip road to
Hwedza Centre is now called the strip death. Every other day you hear of accidents reports and most of them are fatal. Mr. Speaker, the ease of doing business is about accessibility to the business supply chain; competitiveness is about accessibility to markets and suppliers. This is not possible in Hwedza given the lack of mobile accessibility and the road infrastructure inaccessibility. The Government has to dignify the people of Hwedza by developing their infrastructure. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 31st October, 2017.
MOTION
BUISNESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 11 to 14, be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 15 has been disposed
of.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I second. Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS AND IMPLEMENTATION REGISTER
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move the motion
standing in my name:
That this House –
RECOGNISING that in 1999, Parliament adopted the final report of the Parliamentary Reform Committee (PRC); and one of the recommendations contained in the report was that of establishing a Code of Conduct and Ethics and Implementation Register for Members of
Parliament;
ACKNOWLEDGING that the Constitution of Zimbabwe, in
Section 198 provides for the enactment of an Act of Parliament which must provide measures to enforce the provisions of principles of public administration and leadership, including measures to –
- Require public officers to make regular disclosures of their assets;
- Establish codes of conduct to be observed by public officers; and
- Provide for the disciplining of persons who contravene the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Constitution or any code of conduct or standard so established.
NOTING that the recommendation by the PRC and the
requirement by the Constitution culminated in Standing Order 49 of the
Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly;
COGNISANT of the approval of the Code of Conduct and Ethics and Implementation Register by the Committee on Standing Rules and
Orders on 21st April, 2016:
NOW, THEREFORE, resolves that the Code of Conduct and Ethics and Implementation Register be adopted.
HON. DR. SHUMBA: I second.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker
Sir. I seek to move the motion in my name pertaining to the code of conduct and ethics for Members of Parliament. I must indicate that this is as a result of extensive discussions and consultations of Members of Parliament, in particular what we have done within the Standing Rules and Orders Committee. This has been a product of our discussions as
Members of Parliament to make sure that we are in conformity with the Constitution of our land, in particular, Section 198 that provides for an enactment of an Act of Parliament, which must provide for measures to enforce provisions of the principles of public administration and leadership. These require public officers to make regular disclosures of their assets, Members of Parliament have to establish codes of conduct to be observed by public officers, provide for the disciplining of persons or people who contravene the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Constitution or any code that has been so prescribed.
This recommendation was also buttressed prior to the Constitution in 1999 when we adopted our final Parliamentary report regarding the reforms that we are supposed to put in place. One of the key recommendations that were put in place were to establish and put in place this kind of conduct so that the code of conduct defines and refines what has to be done in terms of the recommendations of the Constitution. Hon. Speaker Sir, we have also seen that this recommendation …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order, Hon. Members at the back. There is a lot of noise going on in this Chamber. Please, if you feel you have some discussion, can you move to the lobby. May you continue Hon. Chamisa.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. This is
very important because it is going to affect all the Members of
Parliament. You know that the Speaker is very particular, especially on this one. Hon. Speaker, because of this recommendation, we have seen that in the Standing Rules, particularly Orders 48 and 49 of the National Assembly and also the Standing Rules of the Senate, there has been an establishment of the necessary and conducive environment for the correct behaviour which Members of Parliament are themselves supposed to observe as elected representatives serving their country with honour, honesty and the highest of recognition for this democratic institution.
This obviously has brought about the necessity of this code of conduct which we shall so lay particularly considering the fact that this code is going to speak to what is expected of Members of Parliament morally, in terms of integrity, in terms of declaration of assets, interests and whatever interests, whether financial or material. The purpose of this code is to make sure that there is an informed description of the purpose of this code by inserting a certain section which is very important in terms of protecting the integrity not just of ordinary members but also the Parliament. The code aims to ensure certain standards of conduct amongst Parliamentarians in the endeavor to increase public confidence and curb corruption.
Let me just touch on the scope of the code Hon. Speaker Sir and Hon. Members. The section covering the scope of the application of this code indicates that it was introduced in order to clarify on the extent to which the code applies. It will deal with your family interests. It will also deal with the number of wives or husbands you have so that there is full and total accountability in terms of the definition of the family. That is the scope of this very important code of conduct. It is in line with the Constitution; that is what the people said, that is what the law has demanded and dictated. The broad approach we have taken is to develop a code that provides a tool of public scrutiny and also one which enhances accountability of public officials, starting with Members of Parliament.
This section is obviously in line with the widely accepted standards of Parliaments in other jurisdictions. They have done so in
Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, et cetera. What we are simply doing is to make sure that we raise the standards in terms of our accountability and integrity. The financial interests that are supposed to also be dealt with Hon. Speaker Sir, provide for the disclosure of financial interests of members, family or any business partner of that member. That is done for the purpose of making sure that we promote good governance and we ensure members advance public interests as required by the Constitution.
This section obviously prevents members from pressing for financial benefits in the conduct of their Parliamentary business, meaning to say, Members of Parliament are no longer able to go and ask for a stipend or benefit out of the execution of their duties. Even as they do their duties in their constituencies, they are not supposed to solicit for a bribe or to seek to extort people in their particular constituencies. This is to curb against undue influence of Members of Parliament over their constituents, particularly when it comes to business interests or other interests as defined in a particular constituency. This has also been necessitated by the need to deal with the difficulty in defining on what amounts to a conflict of interest in any set of circumstances.
You will realise that most of the Members of Parliament are obviously going to be affected by this code. Hon. Speaker Sir, there was extensive debate in the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders, particularly in terms of the remit or circumference of limits that are supposed to be acceptable. This is what then has necessitated what we have also attached as a form that has to be filled in by each and every Member of Parliament.
Hon. Speaker Sir, I would have wanted to go on and on. There is a confidentiality clause, particularly which we have said has to be respected. Who is able to access the information that a Member of Parliament would have given in terms of financial interests and family interests. We need to protect the privacy, because it is also a constitutional requirement. So, it has to be in compliance with the Constitution. This clause will spell out who has access to the register, specifically the confidential party. Access is limited to those who are designated, including members of the public but they have to then go through certain mechanisms for them to have access to it. The mischief that this section seeks to address Hon. Speaker Sir, is the appreciation of the abuse of office that can be as damaging as the actual abuse of power by a Member of Parliament. There is therefore, no need to provide for provisions which protect the integrity of Parliament through the aspect of transparency, which is provided through the disclosure of financial interests by Members. It has to be understood that disclosure does not necessarily remove the conflict between private interest and the public interest, but it helps to identify circumstances or instances where potential conflict exists and it makes it easier to detect it when it occurs.
The form and timing of the disclosure of financial interests by Members is divided into categories: one is ad hoc and the other is routine disclosure. Ad hoc disclosures require Members to declare financial interest before participating in a debate. You know that we had a problem when we had a debate around BHOPELA and the issue of the RBZ Assumption of Debt. Then this is going to be a requirement to disclose your interest before you start or commence debating and you are proscribed from participating in that debate. These ad hoc disclosures require a member to declare financial interest before participating in a debate, committee hearing or voting where financial interest is likely to result in a conflict of interest. Whereas routine disclosure demands that Members must declare their financial interest on taking up the position as a Member and to have regular intervals thereafter.
The amended code will deal with these things Hon. Speaker Sir and I do not need to go into the debate because this is going to be tabled for Members of Parliament to then debate and also consider the register. I will leave my seconder, Hon. Dr. Shumba to give the doctoral touch to this code, because it is a joint effort on behalf of the SROC and the
Parliamentary Legal Committee. I have given an advocate’s perspective. So, you also need a doctoral perspective. I do appreciate that is not a learned colleague because a doctor is not necessarily a learned colleague but he will give the necessary colour to the document. I so submit Hon.
Speaker. He will continue from where I have left as a way of just seconding this Code of Conduct. That is how we have discussed with the Speaker as a way of tabling it. With your indulgence Hon. Speaker, I so leave it for your determination.
HON. DR. SHUMBA: As seconder, I will start by stating that Adv. Chamisa is indeed in the learned fraternity but not necessarily exclusive to him as learned. I am sure the doctor has achieved greater accolades than the Hon. Member.
This Code of Conduct Hon. Members is so critical in our lives as representatives of the electorate in Zimbabwe. It gives us assurance for responsible behaviour and advances the interest of the public that elected us into office. My colleague has dealt with the broader issues but I would like Hon. Members to embrace this Code of Conduct as it facilitates the adherence to normal corporate governance and issues of
clarity.
Of note, is the issue of declaration. Hon. Members, sixty days from the Opening of Parliament or the Swearing-In of a New Member, members are supposed to complete the Declaration Forms in respect to assets, revenue and many other things that relate to issues of conflict of interest that may arise as a consequence of lack of disclosure. This is pursuant to Standing Order Number 49 for the interest of Members to deal with. In particular, Members would have to declare their interest in businesses, shareholding, dividends, salaries, other remunerations, directorships, partnerships, consultancies, sponsorships and this is important so that Members are an open book for the public to introspect and check on.
I have in our proposal that an amount of $4 500 per calendar year would be required to be measured for gifts and hospitality. That is for entire year and it is important for Members to take note of this, because it affects the limit with which you can receive gifts. So if you are going to debate, debate knowing whether you want an extension of this figure or the $4 500 is adequate as a window of annual gifts and hospitality received by the Members. I have my opinion and would have wished to propose that be extended to $20 000 but anyway, it is up to you Members.
We are going to have to declare other benefits that accrue to Members, including foreign travel that Members may benefit from. This will apply to his/her international travel outside Zimbabwe. I am proposing that there be consideration to such travel that is sponsored by spouses and other family members. For instance, I have a daughter who is studying abroad and it is important that should that daughter afford to sponsor a trip for me to visit her overseas, that should be seen in the context of what we are talking about. I am mentioning that by way of example.
Members have to declare land, assets, properties that you have and everything – [HON. D. SIBANDA: Hatina kana mbudzi kana huku.] – Your goats will have to be declared – [Laughter.] – It is important to take cognisance of the confidentiality part of the register which every Member is going to fill in. every Member will fill in this register and is able to annually give an update as to the things that he needs to increase.
However, the public has the right to come to Parliament and request to inspect the register to see if it is consistent with your lifestyle and that it is consistent with what you have declared in the avoidance of any conflict of interest.
I must mention that this Code of Conduct is also binding to Hon. Members who are in the Executive. Here I am talking about Ministers and Deputy Ministers. They are bound by this Code of Conduct in addition to the other codes that may apply to them in respect to the portfolios that they may hold. Hon. Speaker, Members are encouraged to continue to acquaint themselves with the Code of Conduct so that they understand how it affects them and to debate robustly to this motion.
Thank you very much.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker!
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, let it be a
genuine point of order.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: It is. I always rise to give genuine things.
My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir came up through Hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Mandipaka with regard to the welfare of Members of Parliament. The Speaker, who was in the Chair then last week, put it across to Members of Parliament that a response was going to be put across in this House this week on this Day of our Lord in the year 2017. As we speak now, the day is almost coming to a close and nothing has been made to that effect.
Mr. Speaker Sir, for the good of the House since tomorrow will be Government Business, it will be Question Time and might not be given priority, if we can have a hearing with regard to the response on that issue on the welfare which was put across last week by Hon. Mandipaka.
I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
As I consult, I will allow you to continue with your debate Hon.
Mpariwa.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I want to thank the
Committee led by Hon. Adv. Chamisa and the motion seconded by Hon.
Dr. Shumba. Hon. Speaker Sir, you are one of the members in the
Public Accounts Committee and one of the issues that actually boggles down the work of the Committee is lack of accountability by public officials. Let me also highlight that Members of Parliament are also public officials that need actually to be exemplary. I want to appreciate and I want really to thank the pair for having come up with such a motion. Really, Hon. Speaker, we cannot be legislators who actually make laws on behalf of the people and we do not have anything that binds our actions out there.
It is really good for the public to actually have some kind of respect in terms of Members of Parliament. Anyone who actually doubts that we have to behave like public officials through a code of conduct actually will not be somebody who respects the rule of law and the Constitution. My rising up is actually to emphasise on the fast tract in terms of the recommendations by the pair so that we get going. The idea that the Speaker has, he has spoken over and over – we have seen documents that have actually been put in our pigeon holes and nobody has filled those forms. I hope and trust that when we do have legislation, it will be compulsory for every Member of Parliament to actually adhere to the code of conduct. I want to thank the mover of the motion and the seconder and I also support the recommendations and the formulation of such a code of conduct. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mutseyami, the issue
that you have raised is being considered. The work is still young and there are some two days to go, so you will be notified in due course.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker
Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of
privilege?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: My point of privilege is that I see Hon.
Minister Khaya Moyo who is now in charge of our Media and Publicity. We want to appreciate the Hon. Minister, he is a good citizen and we are happy, we must acknowledge and congratulate him for the post. He is a fair man and some of us are not ashamed to acknowledge fair men Hon.
Speaker Sir, asifuni ubumbulu, – [Laughter.] – he is a very straight forward man and we really appreciate that. We just hope that he will also take the opportunity for the coverage of parliamentary debates on Wednesdays - to make sure that if funds permit, we are able to cover all the debates and our Committee programmes so that we are in line with what is in the Constitution and what is also in terms of modern parliamentary democracy. I thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Adv.
Chamisa for welcoming the Minister. I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to add
my voice to this motion which has been brought before this august House by Hon. Adv. Chamisa. Let me begin by appreciating the efforts by Hon. Chamisa to bring this motion in this august House and also applaud Hon. Dr. Shumba who seconded the motion. Mr. Speaker Sir, the underlining point here to discuss and to debate on is emanating from the role of Parliament. We come here Mr. Speaker Sir, to make laws for the good governance of this country. I think we must be seen as well to be implementing what we make here in Parliament. So, the laws that we make should be positively implemented. I think we must lead by example as an august House. There is nothing bad to adopt a code of ethics or code of conduct for Hon. Members of Parliament....
A cell phone having been ringing.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. There
are some Hon. Members attending to their cell phones, may you please go out if you need to attend to your cell phone.
HON. MANDIPAKA: There is nothing bad Mr. Speaker Sir for
us all to abide by the Constitution and the dictates of our Standing Rules and Orders. In that vein, there is nothing bad to adopt a code of conduct, ethics or standards of operation that will guide us as Hon. Members of Parliament. Mr. Speaker Sir, suffice to indicate that it is high time the authorities revisit the perks of Hon. Members of Parliament because you cannot be asked to declare assets where you have nothing at all – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- You cannot be denied to look for other sources of income because you want to augment the little that you are getting. I think it is paramount that the authorities, it could be the Executive or the Government or the nation at large to understand the problems that Hon. Members face. The perks that we get, in all honesty are not very fair because the work that we do – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – we do quite some enormous work for the betterment of the poor in rural areas, but look at what we get in turn and nobody seems to care. Here we are, we are trying to adopt a code of ethics and I am asked to declare just a scotch-cart or a bull that I have. I have nothing, so, I think it is high time as we adopt the code of conduct; it is high time that the perks of those who are Hon. Members of Parliament remain honourable as well. We must not have a wider difference with the Executive and this is what we have to look at. That is why we hear an outcry about the welfare of Members of Parliament. It is more important that we keep on talking about our welfare until we become honourable in terms of perks because as of now, we are not honourable at all, I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. May
I also add my voice to this important motion that was brought into the House by Hon. Adv. Chamisa seconded by Hon. Dr. Shumba. Mr. Speaker Sir, just as the previous speaker, Hon. Mandipaka has already hit it on the head. It is very important that we as Members of Parliament in this august House definitely abide and set an example to Zimbabwe as a whole as to how governance is supposed to be. Why we are at it Mr. Speaker Sir, time and again, we have spoken on this issue that the State has got three arms and it is the Executive, Judiciary and the Legislature. When you come to look at it in reality, there are only two arms of Government that are treated with respect and recognised properly. The other arm seems to be actually weak and powerless – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- and yet this is the very arm that is supposed to be supervising and overseeing all the other arms of Government.
Why are we being short-changed Hon. Speaker in our mandate as Hon. Members of Parliament? You go out of here, in town, you are called honourable but where is the honour when it comes to certain levels. The Executive is treated special than the Hon. Member and the Judiciary is treated more special than the Hon. Member. Right now, as I speak Mr.
Speaker, the Executive and the Judiciary, even if you go to their houses now, they are guarded by State police, we are not. That is fair and fine. Look at the perks that they have. They are given one off-road car and another one that is Executive and we are not given that. We are meant to pay for what we get to go and service the constituencies that we come from.
So, when you say let us declare, what are we declaring because this thing I am paying for and I am working hard for it, what do you want me to declare. Give us something to declare then we are going to happily declare. What I want us to look into is to say that let us first correct the issue of treating each other in fairness. Let us all be equal and let the Executive, Judiciary and the Legislator all feel equal and we will begin to talk the same language.
As we speak right now, when Hon. Members travel outside, they are treated like nothing. We have failed to get the diplomatic passports, why? You find some people that are not even honourables have got diplomatic passports and you say that we are honourable. Where are we honourable? Treat us fairly Hon. Speaker and let everybody know that we want to definitely come up and declare assets and carry out the code of all the ethics for good governance. Treat us honourably and make us feel honourable and that way, we are singing one song. But for now, we do not feel honourable at all. So, my plea is that can you make this playing field level and equal for all of us. I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will not take much of your time. Whilst I hear the pleas of my colleagues about our welfare, how much they put into the constituencies, I think they are obviating the necessity for declaration of assets as outlined by Hon. Adv. Chamisa and Hon. Dr. Shumba. The fact of the matter is that the declaration is not aimed at increasing or decreasing the welfare. It is aimed at curbing corruption. Zimbabwe is one of the most corrupt
African countries. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Corruption is what is killing a lot of our economic activity and ability to grow the fiscus. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.].-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please!
HON. WATSON: The fiscus will not grow as long as there is corruption and if the leaders which Hon. Members and I agree, all of the Executive and all the Arms of State cannot bring themselves to a simple declaration of assets, whether you have them or not. It is not necessarily the point. The point is to have a starting point so that after five years, if you have accumulated millions of dollars of assets, you have to know that that is what happened or somebody knows that that is what has happened because that is corruption. Thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think this is a very good debate, but it is a bit misguided and a bit misdirected and I will say the reasons why. I think the problem that we are dealing with is a structural problem. The problem that parliamentarians are treated as ugly cousins from the village by the other two Arms of the State is a structural problem. The Government has the Public Service Commission which looks after Government employees. The Judiciary has the
Judiciary Service Commission which looks after the Judiciary and Parliament has no such Commission and yet we are the people that make the laws.
We should have put in place a Parliamentary Services Commission. Employees of Parliament are not civil servants and that must be understood. Throughout the whole world, employees of Parliament are employees of Parliament. Employees of the Judiciary are employees of the Judiciary and they must be treated separately. Employees of Parliament are treated like Public Servants. The reason is because it is structural. Parliament does not control its own purse. The purse of Parliament is controlled by the Executive.
Mr. Speaker, one who pays the piper calls the tune. If the Executive today decides that Parliament is going to get their salaries on the 6th of the following month, so be it because we have no structure which determines when we are going to get paid and which determines how much must be in our kit. What should happen is that this Parliament is responsible for making laws and it must make a law which makes it mandatory that when Government is discussing its budget, a certain percentage of that budget must go to the other Arms of the State like the Judiciary and the Legislature.
When that has happened, the Legislature then has its own budget which it controls. If a Member of Parliament wants to travel to South
Africa where you need to buy a ticket and where you need per diem for $650.00, you must apply to the Executive. If the Executive decides that there is no money, you will not go. That is the reason why you find a director holds a Diplomatic Passport and a Member of Parliament does
not.
I have attended many functions as a Member of Parliament in my
Constituency in Mabvuku where a senior Government Official, a Deputy
Director is also officiating at the same function. A Government Deputy
Director is recognised more than a Member of Parliament because Government has no respect for Parliament. Let us face it. What we need to do is that we must make a law and debating it here in Parliament, we can debate until we turn blue in the face and until the cows come home.
As long as there is no legal framework to deal with this problem, this problem will persist until the second coming of Jesus. What we need to do as Members of Parliament is that we have the power.
Zvekungotaura izvi hazvibatsire. Let us come up with a law because we are the ones who make the laws. If we go today to the President, he will say ah, but you are the ones who make the laws. Let us make a law which makes it mandatory. Soon we are going to be discussing the PreBudget Seminar and I can guarantee you that we are going to talk about everything else, but the budget of Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, I am one of those Members of Parliament and the last time when we were debating the budget in this House, and the former Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa was seated there, I told him that the money that you have allocated to Parliament is too little. Mr. Speaker, Members from the other side booed me and I will tell you the reason why. It is because they think the Executive is superior. If you think that the Executive is superior, why do you complain when you are treated like second cousins?
Hon. S. K. Moyo, the new Minister of Information is here and if I ask him a question, back benchers there will stand up and say hee, urikunetsa Minister wedu as if it is your duty to protect Ministers. Your duty as back benchers from the ruling party is not to protect Ministers. If we are asking Ministers public questions, let them answer. Why do you think it is your obligation to protect them? That is the structural problem – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Handiti murikuvanzwa, listen to them.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order please! Order at the back, if you have something to debate, I will give you a chance to stand up and debate.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker, can the Hon. Member
just stick to the subject than to criticise us here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
There is no point of order.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, the level of debate in this
House must not be Mickey Mouse. If you want to stick to Mickey
Mouse debate, we will continue to be treated like second cousins. That is why the pay days of Members of Parliament is said rest of civil servants. You are treated like civil servants because of this attitude. If you want to be treated honourably, you must behave honourably. Mr. Speaker Sir, if we are in this House and do not raise the level of our debate to a level where Hon. Minister Simon Khaya Moyo will say; ‘here is a debate by
Hon. Members,’ he will go out and continue to treat us like second cousins.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are two things that we must do. Firstly, let us come up with a law. Let us sponsor a Private Members’ Bill that first and foremost will set up a Parliamentary Services Commission. This commission will bid to Government to say, ‘this Parliament needs so much, US$300 or US$400 million for us to be able to operate. Last time we were allocated only US$16 million. It was through the benevolence of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that US$30 million was viremented from some projects and brought to Parliament.
This Parliament was meant to be operating on a budget of US$16
million per year and yet the budget of Government is approved by this Parliament and not at Munhumutapa or at the High Court. Members of this Parliament voted unanimously to approve a budget which allocated them US$16 million. Why should the Minister not treat us like second cousins when we behave like that?
Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Minister Chombo is going to bring in a budget here. When he brings the budget here and we are not happy with the allocation to Parliament, we must not pass that budget because we have got the power. However, if we pass that budget and after that we say, ‘aah, you did not give us money,’ - what are we talking about? Mr.
Speaker, Members of Parliament must start thinking outside the box. There is need for a paradigm shift; it cannot be business as usual if you want to be treated honourably. Why should we apply to Government to get diplomatic passports?
The Parliamentary Services Commission must be able to say, these are the requirements of Members of Members of Parliament, a, b, c, d or e and they are given to the State. We are lucky that our Head of State and Government is also a Member of Parliament in so far as he approves the laws that we send to him as Bills. He then gives his Presidential assent to make them laws. So, the President will understand us because he is one of us when it comes to making laws. We do not have much of a problem. However, we must raise the bar on how we think and start thinking outside the box. Izvi zvekungoti ho ho ho! Hazvibatsire. When we are debating issues here Mr. Speaker, let us debate seriously.
Mr. Speaker, I want to say, why do we need Cabinet authority when a Member of Parliament is going out on business? We are not Members of Cabinet; we are not civil servants - why should we get an authority signed by someone working at Munhumutapa? I do not even know who that person is. If you want to see a Member of Parliament excited, tell them that there is a Cabinet uthority authorising them to travel to South Africa. The Member of Parliament will be so happy kunge gudo ranhonga pito.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member.
HON. MARIDADI: I will speak in English; like a baboon which has picked a whistle. Was it the problem that I used two languages.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yes, your language.
HON. MARIDADI: Alright. However, we do not need Cabinet approval. Our trips must be approved internally by the Presiding Officers here. We have our Clerk here, Mr. Chokuda; he must approve it. Mr. Speaker, the level of the Clerk of Parliament must be the same level as the Secretary to the President and Cabinet in terms of his salary and all the other benefits like the vehicle and so on. I raised it in this
Parliament once upon a time. The Deputy Clerk of this Parliament’s level must be the same as the Deputy Secretary to the President and Cabinet, but it is not like that.
The directors in Government have better perks than the Clerk of
Parliament and yet the job of the Clerk of Parliament is very important. You actually have a Clerk of Parliament who writes documents which end up on the table of the Head of State and Government, His
Excellency and yet a Deputy Director can never write a document which ends up on the desk of the Speaker because he does not communicate with the Speaker. It is actually provided for in the Constitution that the Clerk of Parliament must generate this document which goes to the President or that the President must generate a document which comes to the Clerk of Parliament.
In conclusion, Members of Parliament, before we start complaining and pointing a finger at the other arm of the State, let us look at the other four fingers which are pointing at us. We actually have a problem. Let us make laws; it is our responsibility to make laws which will make us better. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
Hon. Nduna having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, are you trying to
debate or introducing a new debate?
HON. NDUNA: Yes Mr. Speaker, I am trying to debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you, I will give you a
chance.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I do not have much to say but I think what I want to say is important for us to hear. Before coming to Parliament, Hon. Members of Parliament here came from all sorts of backgrounds. Others came from the business community, poor society and various societies. I have a problem with the declaration form that has been brought forward by Hon. Chamisa. The simple reason is; I went to Zambia with some Parliamentarians the whole of last week. In fact, we went to view the Batoka Gorge in Victoria Falls and then Kariba. The Zambian Parliamentarians were part of our Committee.
However, Mr. Speaker, I want to say to you it was a very sad and sorry sight where our Members of Parliament were made to board small or little planes where we had to crawl in and the Zambian delegation came in an honourable way where they were flying with perfect planes, the latest ones. They got better allowances than us local Members of Parliament and they looked down upon us although they were not in agreement in so many things. The reason why I am pointing this out Mr.
Speaker, is that other Members of Parliament pointed out the part where Hon. Members need to be catered for properly in terms of our remuneration. If you look at all the other countries within Southern Africa, it is really sorry for us to be here.
The biggest challenge we are facing is that we are saying; declare your goat, cow and all your past – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Is it an EIA that we want to do on each Member of Parliament to say that after five years – I am sorry to hear the other Hon. Member saying that it is a way of dealing with corruption, I disagree with that. The reason why I disagree with that is that all of us who are in this House came from the people. We were voted in by the people because you cannot be a leader when you do not have anything. You cannot even look after your own house and then you want to be a leader of a society. It does not work that way.
I am saying I do not mind declaring what I get from Parliament. I am very open to even walk with my pay slip and say this is what I earn – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – or even to tell them that these are the coupons that I get. Mr. Speaker, the Code of Conduct that they are asking for, I think we need to fine tune. I am not refusing but Members of Parliament, there is a starting point of declaring. Let us declare what we get from here. The Executive get new cars - four each, they get allocations, they travel. As Parliamentarians, we just get a phone call and we are told to jump and we jump. We are told to pass a Bill and we just pass. If you came to Parliament through whatever political party, that whipping system will wake you up; they will tell you that if you want to still remain in Parliament, you must do as we say.
So, I am just saying that sometimes we are very silent on a lot of things but let us deal with issues that affect us on a day to day basis as Hon. Members of Parliament and then we can declare the things that you want us to declare. But if you are going to ask me how many goats or every time my goats give birth, I must write an EIA to say I have got four more goats that have come – is it corruption? I do not think it is fair Mr. Speaker.
However, I think we need to re-look. Hon. Maridadi said a lot of good points - do not get me wrong. You may have been upset because of me heckling or other Members of Parliament heckling but he had some good points. The only problem with him is that he gets emotional and I am not getting emotional here. Mr. Speaker, I just want you to understand that we need to come to a situation where Hon. Members of Parliament are happy and then we will also perform better.
However, there is a problem where we are being treated as second cousins because of the Executive and the Judiciary. There is a parking bay outside - no Member of Parliament will park near where the Judges cars’ are parked. We can go and park anywhere else but not near their cars, they have a system. Why are we being controlled by other departments when we cannot even look after our oversight role; we cannot even do it because there is no money for Parliament. We always have to ask for supplementary. Our cars even get to be clamped. Even members who are not Members of Parliament have taken our parking space. The Hon. Speaker spoke to us saying they will remove all the wrecks in the parking lot but he has not lived up to his word.
So, I am not complaining but we need to start somewhere. The Bill that is being proposed is a good Bill but let us fine tune it to what you get. You cannot come and ask me about Shu Shine buses that my father worked for, from 1948 up to now and I must declare them here because I am a family member - no. Some people inherit a lot of things; we cannot be declaring our inheritance. Yes, I understand that when you come into Parliament, fair and fine; if you are in business or you are holding certain positions, you relinquish them to other members of your family – that is fine.
However, here in Parliament, if you give me a Ford Ranger, I will declare it. If you give me a 100 litres of diesel, I will declare that; if you give me 1000 dollars, I will declare such and after all, we are paying for it – it is correct. There is nothing for nothing. When I go to the constituency, if people see me in that big Ford Ranger, they think it is their car, they have a right to it, and must sit in there.
We also want the honourable thing to be treated also in a nice honourable way. I think our institution needs to be improved. We need to make sure that people’s remunerations are done properly. Right now, we were cut off when Hon. Mutseyami spoke and said Hon. Mandipaka brought up a motion and the answer - was we are looking into the matter, it is work in progress. That is not what we want to hear. We want a definite answer here and there, to say yes you are getting your money and your allowances. Who knows - some of us will not be able to make it in the next Parliament and maybe some of us do not even want to come back because we spent more time here playing jokes, teasing each other and telling each other off. When we go to our constituencies, the people will ask what we are doing in Parliament because there is no sugar, soap, cooking oil in the shelves and cash at the banks. They will ask - what are you doing as Hon. Members of
Parliament?
So, I just wanted to say that the Bill is fine as long as it is what we get from here. They need to look into what other countries around
SADC are getting. We were getting $75 sitting allowance per day yet Zambia was getting $455 – such a difference. It is really sad. The corruption is on the Executive but is side because our duty is to have an oversight over the Executive but it is because Parliament cannot control its own budget. Right now, we are talking about our CDF, nothing has come through and our terms are just coming to an end. So, there is no continuity. Every time a new Member of Parliament comes here, there is no continuity. Who knows – the other guy comes with his new thoughts and his new thoughts are just a dream as well because he will end up with the same story that we have ended up with, the short end of the stick.
Mr. Speaker, I think he that hath an ear let him hear. I think I have spoken, I have said what I think should be said. Corruption is not here but it is in the police force, in the Executive and the Judiciary. Here, we do not touch money; we just pass laws – that is all we do. We come and debate and look at the pros and cons. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of information! I think that
will really help the House because there are very important points that are being raised. Hon. Speaker, let me just explain the historical context. You remember that we had a workshop at Sheraton Hotel, wherein we debated these issues. I am sure Hon. Holder was very active in his participation. So, what we did was a workshop. Now, we cannot have a workshop codified into law; a workshop is a workshop. What we now need to do is to table it before Parliament and get it adopted. Debates are very good. However, the remit and limit of our debate has to do with the declaration of assets.
When it comes to salaries, there is actually a Bill that is coming on salaries and benefits. In fact, I was discussing with Minister Zhuwao this afternoon because we have finished giving our proposals as Parliament in terms of how the structure of Parliamentary salaries and benefits are supposed to be designed. All those things are coming through the Minister. He said the principles are before the Cabinet. I am only saying this because I am responsible for the drafting side from the Parliamentary side – [HON. ZINDI: Inaudible interjections] - I personally understand how people are agitated, it is fair agitation but the point is that we cannot be debating a Bill that is not yet before
Parliament. What is before Parliament is the declaration of assets which is this code of conduct but when it comes to the salaries and benefits, we will then have debates that have been raised coming then to be debated.
We can actually have debates which are not very helpful. This Bill is supposed to come and I was impressing on Hon. Zhuwao who is now the new Minister - we had actually done a lot. Those who understand how Government works at times, it is a bit of a problem to push things.
We have been pushing so hard to say, Minister please bring this forth. Just like the CDF constitution - we need the constitution to come. The money has already been transferred on to Parliament but we have not been able to access that money because we must have an enabling legislation and framework. We have done the CDF Constitution and we have circulated it to all members but only two members contributed. The rest have not. For us to be able to move to the next stage, it has to be adopted by this Parliament. We will bring the CDF Constitution so that we facilitate and catalyze those processes. I thought that it is important so that we do not divert our focus – and start to discuss our remuneration and benefits now before we are ready and able to debate. It is very important and I hope it will help Members of Parliament. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: My point of order is based on the information that Hon. Chamisa is giving us. I, personally, am of the opinion that what should have been brought before this august House is what commensurate with the expectations of Members of Parliament in as far as their welfare is concerned before we could delve into debating this code of conduct. What are we to declare when Members of Parliament have nothing to declare? What should come first is something to do with the welfare of Members Parliament and then we go on to say – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - and then we go on to say, Members, declare whatever. That is my point of order.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I will just bolster on a few issues say –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order please! –[AN HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Let Hon. Nduna debate.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, he will respond.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I know, I will give him the
chance.
HON. NDUNA: I would like to reiterate on issues to do with the three arms of the state because the other then should not be undermined. The other members have completely ventilated the issue of the disparity within the three arms of the state - that is the Judiciary, the Executive
and …
Hon Zindi having walked towards Hon.Chamisa.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zindi, I will ask
him to respond to your queries. Just take is easy.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. You had read my mind.
HON. NDUNA: I will take it again. The issue of the three arms of the state should certainly live to its expectations. What has occurred in terms of the issue of disparity is what has caused the demise of the quality of input, debate and all that in Parliament. This is what has caused Hon. Dr. Mashakada to even envy the position of Town Clerk of Harare, because you would then say, it is better to be an accounting officer of a town or city than be an Hon. Member. If there was that envy and the decorum that befits a Member of Parliament, we would not have these people jumping the gun or the boat.
I am trying to imagine the Chairperson of the Judicial Service
Commission (JSC) – Justice Rita Makarau trying to apply for a Town
Clerk’s job in the Harare City Council. That will never happen. That will never occur. She is busy trying to apportion the budget that she has been given to other arms that fall under the JSC. This is her mandate and role and she is doing that effectively and efficiently. She has no outlook or ambition of even becoming the Mayor of Harare. She has no ambition of even becoming the Speaker of the National Assembly.
That brings me to the next point. I have gone on one of our visits to Indonesia - Yogyakarta after Jakarta with our Speaker of the National Assembly. I asked myself if the armoured vehicle which had a lot of security around him. He was moving alone. I thought the bus was for all of us. The way we treat Parliament here in Zimbabwe leaves a lot to be desired. We have a ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth. We can use that as a spring board to enhance the capacity and decorum of Parliament including the dignity of Parliament. Why should we – tife nenyota makumbo ari mumvura?
We are not saying we should get a lot of money out of taxes because we do not want the unsuspecting innocent citizenry to be further taxed in order to capacitate and to finance the business of Parliament. No. We need to use our resources – aware that only twenty of them have been exploited so far and there are forty more, including uranium which we have not even touched on. We need to - kana vasingagone kuti tiite extract…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you use one language
please.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for the guidance Mr. Speaker Sir. Sometimes when – kana zvakubata; when it touches you it throws you into the water. You then want to speak in vernacular at times.
I am saying the disparity and the differences are quite glaring, humongous and enormous within the three arms of the state. That should be seen. It is weighing on the negative side when it comes to Parliament. The issue of the delegation I have spoken to and about – now it is a few months left before the elections. Now, we are asked in terms of declaring assets. As has been alluded to by Hon. Holder, when we came to Parliament, some of us were better off than how we are now because we are financing Parliamentary business in our constituencies and in the Constituency of Parliament.
I will give you an example - just to recap your mind or to nudge you conscience a bit on what the issue of Parliament speaks to and about – the ethos, values, pith, core of what Parliament is all about. It is
Parliament that has spoken to and about the establishment of the Special Economic Zones which His Excellency, the President has asserted to as an order. Recently, Dr. Gono was appointed Chairperson of that board for the Special Economic Zones and yours truly here moved a moved a motion for the establishment of that and the whole country is awash with economic development because of the impending established of Special Economic Zones. This is your Parliament Mr. Speaker that I am talking about.
The issue of making laws for the good governance and order of the people of Chegutu West and Zimbabwe in general; the issue of the repealing of the Mines and Minerals Act which is on Second Reading was crafted and is being debated here in the National Assembly, without which it cannot go to the other third arm of the State for implementation. So, this is how critical Parliament is. When you ask to make us declare, give us something to declare. Give us something to declare –[Applause.] –
The issue of quantifying our mineral resources in the whole of this nation and the issue of the Exploration Act or Bill has come about as a force or nudging of the Executive by these Parliamentarians that sit here and burning midnight candles, and yours truly did that and is being supported by other Members of Parliament. My point exactly is, it cannot be implemented if it does not pass through this mill that we are talking about, which is Parliament. If we do not talk about the issues that touch on the needs of the electorate; the other Arms are just complementing a void. The Acts of Parliament and the Bills are established here and assented to by the Executive. There is four months or a few months left before elections, we might as well do it for posterity; for the future.
Parliamentarians; if we stand our ground now and make laws not only for the good governance, order and peace of the people of Chegutu and the people of Zimbabwe - but also for the Parliamentarians, we are doing it for the good. Why do I keep mentioning these few months; the issue that was spoken to by Hon. Maridadi is the issue of the budget. We have just come from LCC and we have said, a report is going to be tabled, but let me just take some contributions from there that was wanting to have a budget of nothing less than US$100 million for Parliament. If we do not get that money, it is my thinking and a lot of other Members’ thinking that let us not pass the budget, and chances are we might get dissolved – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – If we get dissolved it is just before Parliamentary elections anyway. So, let get what we can and can what we get and be measured around that.
As a Chairperson of your Committee on Transport and
Infrastructural Development, I should not look forward to become a Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, yes kana zvichiitikawo, ngazviitikewo but Mr. Speaker Sir, I should be comfortable in that role of playing oversight on the Executive. When I start thinking that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, it means somehow I am handicapped. I will break the fence and start wanting to debate what is happening on the other side of the fence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the reason why we always think we should be ambitious – ambitions yes, obviously the ladder now has been set such that if you become a Parliamentarian and you are in a Portfolio
Committee, the next step is like that and so forth, that is politics, yes but let it not be the primary line of thinking. The only comfort I have is when I travel with my Committee; as the Committee moves around in the Parliamentary bus or otherwise, I am allowed to use my vehicle, but fuel compensation is not compensation for the wear and tear of my vehicle. There should be much more given to Hon. Members in that regard, in the same manner you proposed that we get the red passports.
Thank you for that.
That as it might be, let the decorum and the esteem of Members of
Parliament remain, because where we go to in terms of our
Constituencies, they regard us in high esteem.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you wind up Hon.
Member?
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will ask that you add my time later through another Member, if I have not finished. Mr. Speaker Sir, let the way we are handled by the electorate in terms of our esteem be the same way we are handled in Parliament. Let us – I am quite aware that there are about 220 000 vehicles, a good number of them are not licenced and they are Government vehicles. When Government is termed Government, it is the Executive; it should also fall on Parliament to also have such a condition. I do not think that is asking too much, so that at least we can be treated like our cousin, but not differently abled cousin from the Executive and the Judiciary. I will reiterate my point that I started on, I am trying to imagine Hon. Simon Khaya Moyo, Minister of Information and Publicity being ambitious to the extent of wanting to be a Town Clerk. It does not occur but we are having Members of Parliament going that route because the grass seems greener on the other side of the fence. That cannot be condoned and it can only not be condoned if we have the right perks and the right conditions, then gage and mark us against those values, not against the inheritance that I have got that I have brought to Parliament. I thank you.
HON. BHEBHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. First of all, there is nothing wrong in declaring one’s assets but there has to be a reason why somebody has to declare his/her assets. It is unfortunate that the Standing Rules and Orders are very clear on issues of declaring of assets. Standing Order Number 49 (4) “failure by a Member of Parliament to declare his/her own financial interests within 30 days of taking the oath or presenting a false declaration shall constitute contempt.”
Now, I wonder if all of us sitting here today are not contemptuous to this Parliament because these are the Standing Rules which are our
‘Bible’ and we have not adhered to them. I am actually surprised if we are standing up today debating what is already a rule. We sit here and debate what we have already agreed to. If other people that are listening and hear us trying to debate against what is here that we actually took an oath here that we are going to abide by the rules of Parliament. Today, we are saying we are debating not to abide by the rules of Parliament. I am equally surprised Mr. Speaker.
Nonetheless, I want to say at sometimes we agree to these things without looking into them thoroughly. We made a mistake by adopting this thing and we did not go through it, thoroughly investigating what it means to us. I have a serious challenge when someone says I should as a Member of Parliament first time around, come and declare my assets. I will be coming from a position of an ordinary citizen of this country and if I come as an ordinary citizen, are you saying all the ordinary citizens should declare their assets? I believe no Mr. Speaker. My belief is if we are talking of declaration of assets, it is those positions that are responsible for a certain budget that they are bound to be corruptly acquiring through that budget.
Here in Parliament, the Parliament budget comes as one, which is the budget of Parliament. It is does not come as an individual budget of every Member of Parliament. Therefore Parliament and its administration is the one that is charged with the running of that budget. Therefore if you are saying I am exposed to corruption, that I need to declare assets lest I am found wanting, that I have stolen or I can pilfer somewhere, where can I pilfer in this Parliament? Nowhere. Therefore, it means when we agreed to this, we made a fundamental mistake and we should abide by it because it is our mistake and it is our bible.
When it comes to the code of ethics, Mr. Speaker, I do agree that as Parliamentarians, we should actually have a code of ethics. The code of ethics will actually enable Members of Parliament to have a good conduct in terms of representing the people in our constituency. Mr. Speaker, when we talk of a code of conduct, we should always remember that we are talking of a code of conduct of one of the three pillars of the State which I so believe that we are all equal.
I have a challenge that you want us to come up with a code of ethics which is not in line with the issue of the three pillars of State. My biggest problem is, we have always come do debate the budget in this House, a budget that will be presented and created by the Minister on his own. I have a challenge to say as a Parliament, we are being allocated money by a Minister, by a Ministry or by one pillar of State, of which we are equal. My suggestion is when we think of the code of conduct, Mr. Speaker, we should always remember that as one of the three pillars of State, let us actually have a standing order that Parliament should get a percentage of every budget that comes into this House, not to be allocated by a Minister.
If the budget of Zimbabwe for instance is $5 billion, if we are saying Parliament should get 15% of $5 billion, let that budget come in and be passed in Parliament in conformity that we are getting our percentage that we are going to run ourselves as Parliament, then we are going to come up with a proper code of conduct. Not for us to actually live in the benevolence of the Minister, that if he wants us to pass a budget, he will then say this month come end of October, we are getting our allowances.
We are not children, Mr. Speaker, that you want to lie to us that because you want us to pass a budget you want to say okay, come end of October you are going to get your allowances. That is wrong, Mr. Speaker. The code of ethics should actually eliminate that because we are not children here that if you want to send him to the groceries you have got to give him a sweet to run to the groceries. We cannot have that. We are Members of Parliament that are equally charged and we are equal to the Executive, we are equal to the judiciary, we should get our own allocation that is equal to the amount of work that we are supposed to do because if we continue this way as a Parliament, Mr. Speaker, this is why we cannot actually pass quality laws at times. This is why we make such mistakes and agree to the declaration of assets, then we turn around and say no because we are so poor that when we debate here we are not thinking properly. We are so poor and thinking of our poverty then we make such kind of fundamental mistakes.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I want to make it very clear that in terms of the declaration of assets we can debate here, it is for academic reasons. We cannot change it until and unless we amend this blue book. If we have not amended it, Mr. Speaker, as you sit there, maybe because I am one of those that has not declared because I have got nothing to declare, all of us here, including you Mr. Speaker, are charged with contempt of Parliament. So who is going to charge another when you are also one of those people that did not declare? So, we are actually caught in this fix because we come here and debate on empty stomachs.
I remember when I started being a Member of Parliament in 2000, you know what? I was surprised I did not know that one day I would smuggle a loaf of bread in a hotel because I could not afford to buy myself supper. I did not believe that one day I was going to be smuggling fruits from my constituency in my bag when I am supposed to be a Member of Parliament. It is because of poverty. So therefore, our code of ethics should deal with the issues of poverty first. When we come here, we should not come here as paupers because if we come as paupers, we are going to come up with legislation that is actually equal to the pauper itself. So, we need to be very careful, Mr. Speaker, when we come up with these kind of things.
Finally, it is good that we have a code of ethics because when we come up with codes of ethics, we should always consider what other Parliament experiences are and if we consider what other Parliament experiences are, it will actually guide us on how Parliamentarians should be remunerated.
I have a challenge. Every time when newspapers hear that Parliament has bought so many vehicles for Members of Parliament, they go to town that Parliament is looting. You cannot say I am looting when in actual fact there is nothing to loot. Remember we are not looting those vehicles because we are charged for those vehicles. The only thing that happens is the Ministry lends us money that we pay back to buy those vehicles. So, you would find newspapers going to town that we are now looting, Parliament has gobbled $30 million. Which
$30 million when you lend me money, I am going to pay back?
It is that kind of understanding, that we are so poor that together with the journalist, journalists are sponsored to write stories that hammer us. We come here and debate and come up with laws that will actually pin us down. It does not work. We need to sober up and come up with a code of ethics that will untie this web that we are in now. We come up clearly with what we want and then we are going to be a better
Parliament. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker with those few words.
HON. MUSANHI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Chamisa, I think the code you have raised is about transparency and you have to be transparent from something you have and show that you did not take it. Here in Parliament, we have got virtually nothing that we are taking out of here except to come and debate. If you want us to declare that, we can declare that, but the assets that we did not get from here - I want to agree with Hon. Holder who actually mentioned this very clearly because we are not coming here to make money. It is like we are coming to help the society.
If you listen to the prayer for this Parliament, if you listen to it very carefully it says, ‘...the just government of man’. That is what we are coming here for and we do not think there is anything that we can declare that comes from this place. A lot has been said and I do not want to repeat what has been said by Hon. Nduna and Hon. Holder but I think your code seeks to be transparent and in order for you to be transparent, you have to be transparent from something that you are holding.
In terms of Parliament, Members of Parliament here, I do not think they have got anything that they have to account to the public. I do not think so. There is nothing for us to account to the public except the debate that we come to do and represent my people in Bindura North and Zimbabwe. That is all. I do not think there is anything else other than that. So, I do not think it will be prudent for this Parliament and Parliamentarians to come and declare what they have. We are not coming here for competition. We are not coming here for competition to show what you have or what you have done and I do not think it will work at all. It will not work because we have to declare what we are getting from here. I thank you very much.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon Chamisa please respond.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon Speaker, I really want to appreciate the contributions from Hon. Members which are very valid...
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, this cannot go unsaid. The Hon.
Member, who was standing, Hon. Musanhi is one of those Hon. Members who is financing the business of Parliament. Who, at the drop of a hat loans us his aircrafts in order for us to undertake Committee work on Transport and Infrastructure. I thought this should be put on record and known and bolster the notion that we cannot function as Parliament if we are not getting our own resources to deal with parliamentary issues.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir, I really want to thank the Hon. Members who have contributed very passionately. You can tell that there is a lot of interest and enthusiasm but also there is, from the contributions by Hon. Members, a realisation that we are also bound by the laws of our land. As law makers, we cannot be the first ones to break the law, we are supposed to be the definers of law, the writers and authors of law and for that reason, we are going to be bound.
I realise, Hon. Speaker Sir, that we seem to have a lot of interest from Hon. Members. I would have asked for an adoption and take note which is perhaps not necessary at the moment so I will defer that so that we allow more Hon. Members to debate and reflect on some of the things. The debate is not really about whether or not we should have a declaration of assets but the nature of the declaration of assets and the forms because we are bound by the Constitution and Standing Orders and that is what we are simply doing. We cannot be a law-making House without the necessary laws and without the law-making intention and capacity that we have being exercised.
So Hon. Speaker Sir, I want to thank Hon. Members for the debates and I think may this debate be adjourned for now with the understanding that it will be continued. I thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday 18th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI seconded by HON. D.
SIBANDA, the House adjourned at Nine Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday 31st October, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN HOUSES ON THE LAND
COMMISSION BILL [H.B. 2B, 2016.]
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: On Tuesday,
17th October, 2017, the National Assembly rejected the amendments that had been made by the Senate on Clause 2, new
Clause 3 and Clause 37 of the Land Commission Bill [H.B. 2B,
2016.]
Paragraph 6 (1a) of the Fifth Schedule of the Constitution of Zimbabwe states that if the Senate and the National Assembly have not agreed upon amendments to be made to a Bill which originated in the National Assembly before the expiration of a period of ninety days beginning on the day of the introduction of the Bill in the Senate; the Bill may be presented to the President for assent and signature in the form in which it was passed by the National of Assembly, except for minor changes required by the passage of time, and any amendments on which the Senate and the National Assembly may have agreed.
A Bill referred to in paragraph 6 (1), which is subject of the disagreement, and originating in the National Assembly is deemed to have been introduced in the Senate on the sitting day immediately after its transmission to the Senate.
The Land Commission Bill [H.B. 2B, 2016] was transmitted by the National Assembly on 26th January, 2017 and introduced in the Senate on 2nd February, 2017. In terms of paragraph 6 (1) as read with paragraph 6 (6) the period of ninety days referred to in paragraph 6 (1) have since expired.
In terms of paragraph 6 (3), it is now up to the National
Assembly to pass a resolution that the Land Commission Bill [H.B. 2B, 2016] be presented to the President for assent and signature in the form in which it was passed by the National of Assembly.
PRE-BUDGET SEMINAR
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also wish to
inform the House that all Senators have been invited to the 2017 Pre-
Budget Seminar to be held from the 8th to the 12th of November, 2017 at Elephant Hills Hotel in Victoria Falls. All senators are requested to confirm their participation at the seminar with the Public Relations Department in order to facilitate logistical arrangements.
All Hon. Senators from Harare, Manicaland, Mashonaland Central, Mashonaland East and Mashonaland West Provinces will travel by a chartered flight while those from Bulawayo, Masvingo, Matebeleland North, Matebeleland South and Midlands provinces will use their vehicles.
The Public Relations officers are in the Members Dining
Hall for confirmation of attendance to this Pre-Budget Seminar.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Madam President, I want to say something as an MP in this august House.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
You know the procedure Hon. Senator. We do not change laws because there is something that we want to contribute. We want to do our work, our mandate following the law which we have – our Standing Rules and Orders. So, you cannot say anything.
HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Madam President, if you can allow me to express my views – [AN HON. SENATOR: Maybe it is a point of order.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
We cannot just start by having points of order. When we are starting work, it is either you have a motion or not. Everything should be in order.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development
Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to contribute on the motion that was brought into this House by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane which falls under their Committee on SDGs that reflects on how people should live. On this one, they are highlighting on good health and well being.
What I want to highlight on this issue is the way this motion was brought into this House. It is important that we prioritise the way people are living especially on how they get food, accommodation, their health and education as well. The way the motion was brought, yes it separated all these, but when we look into goal 3 we realise that if all these things are not prioritised, you will not have good health.
When someone is not feeling well, after you have been attended to, you need to get good accommodation so that you can take the medication prescribed to you and you are given time to rest.
Madam President, before we can even say something outside, when we talk about the people we represent, what we are saying is - we should be prioritised and we should check whether we are properly taken care of as Members of Parliament. Before we can even talk about people who are outside, are Members of Parliament able to go and get medical attention?
As I speak, Madam President, we do not even have enough resources to get medication. When Senator Chabuka wanted to contribute, it was all about our welfare as the Members of Parliament. If I do not have money to get medical attention, I will not be able to represent the people well. What we want to know is, when are we going to get our allowances? For me to represent people well as someone who is standing in as their representative, I should be able to represent them whilst in good health. When someone in my constituency is not feeling well, I should be able to assist those people as well. As Members of Parliament, we are a laughing stock.
Madam President, what we want to know is, when are we going to get our allowances? The money that we have not been paid for the past five years, are we going to get it with interest or not? Madam President, if we are not able to take care of ourselves, how are we going to take care of the other people?
As Parliament, when we are talking about the SDGs while we are failing to take care of ourselves, how are we going to achieve this?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:
Order, can the Hon. Senator be heard in silence?
+HON. SEN. NCUBE: I thank you Mr. President Sir. The report that was brought into this House is very important, and I never used to understand it when they used to talk about the SDGs, but one thing that I have realised is that when they talk about SDGs, it also comes back to me to say I am supposed to be able to take care of myself.
I am not talking about myself only, but I am talking about everyone who is in the Government. The question that I am asking is, is this Government able to take care of its workers and their wellbeing. If for example, the Government is not able to take care of me as aMember of Parliament, what about someone who is outside?
This is a very important report, Mr. President Sir. We really need to be given our allowances so that we can be able to take care of our medical bills. All of us here, one way or the other have something that needs medical attention, but when we go to the hospitals we are not able to pay for the bills. There is a time I got injured and there was a demand for $400 that I was supposed to pay, but I failed to pay that bill.
Mr. President Sir, the first thing that we are asking is that the Parliament of Zimbabwe should pay all Members of Parliament their allowances.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President
for affording me the opportunity to contribute. I remember the chief contributing that there was a nurse doing overtime and being given money that was equivalent to their salary. I think that issue of overtime should be looked into by Government that if someone does not go on leave and continues to work and get the equivalent of their salary, they will continue to work but not give their best because all they will want will be the money. They should go on leave and come back refreshed. The overtime for nurses in hospitals should not be abused. I understand that there are about 2000 unemployed nurses so it is important that Government looks into that so our things work very well.
I also think that it is a good idea that we should be healthy and live well. Health should be for all the people despite their ages. If it were possible, I think referral hospitals like Parirenyatwa, Mpilo and UBH should be found in all the areas in this country so that people have big hospitals near where they stay and they do not have to come and crowd Harare, looking for medical attention for different conditions. Hospitals like the one in Chitungwiza should be built in many places around the country so that people do not go around in search of referral hospitals. We want good health for all people, including the infants and the elderly.
We know that some of the things that I am talking about do not concern the Ministry of Health and Child Care only but also touches on various government departments. You will find that in all these departments, there are acting directors that work for the elderly. What it means is that Government has people at heart but probably there are some challenges that it is facing, hence the reason why they do not have substantive directors. Maybe it is a matter of money but I think Government should try its level best to have substantive directors in place for offices dealing with the elderly people.
If there is a department that looks at health, it will be easier for elderly people to go there if they face any challenges, just like the women’s affairs department. When things are difficult for them they approach their Minister. So, we should not have acting directors but substantive directors concentrating on the elderly. When it comes to health issues, it is not about medication only but it touches on a lot of things. We can conscientise each other that even food helps people to have good health. Even if you are getting medication for certain diseases they will tell you that some of the medication has to be taken after meals because if you use them without eating, you will worsen the situation. So, all the things that touch on people’s health, physical, mental, psychological and the way that we live should be revisited by Government when looking at Sustainable Development Goal No 3.
There is also the issue of shelter. There are a lot of people who do not have houses and many of them are lodging. They are always afraid because they do not know what their landlords are thinking. So that should be really looked into by Government so that we alleviate this issue of shelter. I heard that in other countries they have a policy that says one person one house in town. All those who have five or 10 houses in town should leave those houses and give to other people, because the cities continue to grow; those who get land are the same people who have acquired wealth already. Whenever there is a new scheme, they are the ones who are able to buy land because they have the money. Those who do not have houses always lag behind. Those who already have houses are into business of renting out their properties. So, I think the Government should come up with a policy enforcing that one person, one house in Harare or in Mutare or Gweru so that others get an opportunity to also own houses, instead of one person having houses everywhere. It is not good because they are doing it at the expense of other people.
Water is another issue. It helps us a lot; we need it for drinking, sanitation and cooking. We need clean water and the local authorities should attend to burst pipes. There are some areas where you find that a sewer has been flowing for more than 10 years and they are not fixed. All these things affect the health of people.
People end up being sick, which we will not be able to control. Those are some of the issues that Government should look into when implementing SDG Number 3, so that people live in good health.
There is also the issue of medication, though it is not the only thing but it is one of the things that make us have good health. Therefore, Government should consider resourcing our pharmaceutical companies so that they will be able to produce affordable medication so that we will be able to curb certain diseases like malaria, TB and HIV. Companies like CAPS and Datlabs, these are Government companies and even privately owned companies should make drugs which are competitive. This will help in making drugs affordable.
There is this issue which has gone on for many years, which affect feeding habits of people. We have what we call speculative pricing in our shops. People just speculate and hike prices of goods. During the weekend, I toured one of the local supermarkets and I came across canned beans which used to be sold at $1 but now they are sold at $3.00. Some of those beans are locally manufactured but the business people are greedy. They only think of themselves and want to make huge profits, they do not care how people get that money. What they want is to make profit. This will affect how people think and live. When people are psychologically affected, they would not have good health. So, Government should look at that as well.
This idea of speculative prices is not a new think; it has been happening for many years. It is everywhere in food stores and pharmacies. There are some drugs that I buy for my son which I used to buy for $1 but recently I bought them for $2.50. I do not know how business people think. They do not have what we call patriotism or nationalism. They do not care about the buyers, what they want is just their money. All these things should be looked into by our Government by enacting laws which protect buyers so that people are in good health and live well across all ages.
We have the elderly who have special drugs that they need but because of the way business people think, you will find that these elderly people are no longer able to live well because they cannot afford their medication. I think the Government should come up with a department of pricing, whose officials move around looking at prices. They should do this anonymously, like they buy an item and if they are over charged they can sue the business person concerned.
With those few words I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: May I, through you Mr.
President, add my voice on the SDG3 “Ensure Healthy Lives and Promote Well-being for all at all ages”. I was part of the team which visited Murehwa and Marondera Hospitals. Our visit to these hospitals was an eye opener. This was after we had received oral evidence from the Ministry of Health and Child Care Officials.
Mr. President, there are times when one dreads to enter a hospital, especially our public hospitals. When you approach or enter the wards, there is this air of desperation, smell of sickness or ailing in the air, there is fear of death and you are witnessing winding queues; people screaming and wailing, usually that is after death of someone - but not at these two institutions that we visited. I say this because of their infrastructure. Therefore, I will dwell on infrastructure because it is my belief and this is what we witnessed. These two institutions were well built; the structures and equipment are in place although at times antiquated but functional.
At Murehwa Hospital, there are 60 beds in place. We never saw any queues there but the greater part has modern buildings with room for more as the land is readily available. Two theatres which are not definitive though but which were converted; a dental department although with antiquated equipment and an opportunistic infection clinic which is very user and victim friendly. There is also a family and child health department which is operating, although operating from condemned buildings but very functional. With the help of the private company; the Blue State assisted in the renovations of some buildings and there are laundry rooms with washing machines although they still need a roller iron. They have central stores and stores for vaccines. There is a laboratory which is definitive and functional although the CD4 counting machine was not functional when we visited and they had a smaller machine which they were using when we were there.
They have a rehabilitation department which is definitive as well but not well fitted although the basics such as the bicycle and the weights were not available as well but, the frames and the wheelchairs were available. They have a standby generator which is 2 000 Lt although their major problem is fuel. They have a maternity labour ward with four beds and 18 midwives who are really adequate according to the doctor at that hospital.
In the neonatal unit, their own challenges are electricity for the incubators but it is there. Then there is lack of suitable beds for the disabled because the beds are too high but they are there. There are the female, male and isolation wards – all these are available at Murehwa Hospital although the administration block is a makeshift block with cabins. There is a kitchen, a dining room and a waiting place for mothers and the shelter is there. There is a 12-body capacity mortuary. They have transport which is a lorry, two functional ambulances and three which are obsolete and are ready for boarding.
I am highlighting these issues Mr. President to emphasise that we have infrastructure at this hospital and what may be needed is in terms of budgeting funds so that the hospital is fully equipped. At the Marondera Hospital; there are very sound buildings, an X-ray and digital machines which are not functional. There are three theatres and there is one which is still under renovation. There is a pharmacy which is reasonably stocked with basic drugs including TB and ARV drugs for HIV.
The laundry machine is there but the equipment has not been commissioned since 2012 because of a private company. This one was a donation and our concern was that it costs about $5 000 per week to use private laundries and we are also urging as it was our recommendation that Government should see to it that the equipment is commissioned. There is a children’s ward for those who are below the age of 12 although the beds are not appropriate – they are too big.
These beds were bought through a national tender; but they are not user friendly for the Marondera Hospital and for that age group.
In terms of staffing, there were only two nurses on duty, yet they require four to five in the children’s ward. The post-natal ward – the main challenges there were shortages of drugs and needles and of course the linen. They are supposed to keep mothers there for three days but due to lack of space, after 24 hours, mothers have to leave the post-natal ward. The labour ward has seven labour suites and a high dependency unit for (BP) bleeding people after delivery.
The testing room for HIV et cetera – all these are also available at Marondera Hospital.
The ultra-sound scan is there. The antenatal unit with two wards of six beds each and neonatal units have 15 functional incubators although sometimes babies have to share as some stay there for two to three months in those incubators. Their major challenges are sometimes shortage of oxygen whereby they have to borrow from Borrowdale Trust Hospital which is about a kilometer away. There was also the school of midwifery which was well equipped and a well stocked library with internet but was closed due to lack of accommodation for nurse trainees; yet this country needs midwives and midwifery should continue at that hospital.
The hospital also has the incinerator, the eye unit and in terms of vehicles, they have five ambulances including one special one and most of their districts have at least two ambulances. They also have a school of rehabilitation and in terms of staffing again, they have a minimum of three nurses per each of their rural hospitals; which is a good start and two nurses undergoing training on kaposi sarcoma. There is a diabetic clinic with a physician and a doctor as you know that diabetes is topical these days. The psychiatric unit for the mental health is also available. They have a nutrition garden and unfortunately the specialist on nutrition is attending a workshop somewhere else today. She is very much aware of that. They have a massive water storage tank and five boreholes at Marondera
Hospital.
In terms of drugs Mr. President, the vital drugs in stock were at 66%, the essential drugs were at 27% and the necessary drugs were at 22% - which is quite reasonable and acceptable. Mr. President, I am highlighting these institutions because these are very functional institutions which need our support as Parliamentarians. The issues which I have raised like those of inadequate equipment, the space and room is there, and the beddings are there but, we now have to request the Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon Dr.
Chombo to support our requests through the Lower House.
We also applaud Government and yourselves for the levy which was introduced on cellphones because that levy will assist - that is if it is managed properly in the acquisition of equipment. I thank you so much Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President
and how are you? I have stood up to make my contribution on this motion regarding the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3 to ensure healthy lives and promote the wellbeing of all at all ages.
Mr. President, the motion regarding this report is very important and it is all encompassing because there are a lot of things involved in it. When we look at the people who are sick, and those who want to live a healthy life without suffering from any illnesses, let me first of all debate the situation in hospitals. It is quite a sad situation. I remember, sometimes I went making some research and investigation in my constituency in Hurungwe where I paid a visit to the Hurungwe Hospital which is in the Magunje Township. It is quite a big hospital which is supposed to be helping people and it has a wide-catchment area. I observed that despite the size of the hospital, there was no ambulance. My reason for visiting that place was to carry the corpse of somebody who was deceased and this person had died sometime back and was in the mortuary which was not refrigerated. When I got in there, I saw that there were some goat droppings in the hospital and you start wondering as to how goats may come into that place. The mortuary was located some distance from the main hospital and the grass around the place was not cut. You could see that it is something like a deserted place; it is quite a pity. When I look again at these hospitals, we need to live a healthy life. When we grew up, we heard that the health officials would take an oath of allegiance, showing that they want to help people who are sick. They were in the health sector not for finances but they would get their salaries after their dedication to their duty.
When you get into that hospital, these health providers will be busy on WhatsApp on their phones, living the sick alone. There are some donors who may want to give some assistance to such an institution but when they see that there is a lackadaisical approach by these people, that donor will move on because they would have seen that the care providers are not dedicated to their duty. Mr. President Sir, it is quite a pity.
When we look at people who are HIV infected, there is a stigma which is attached to them. What happens is, these health personnel will make these people queue the whole day so that people may see them and they are ashamed. We have noticed that some of these affected people and HIV patients end up not going to these institutions because they fear being treated with shame. At times, you may think that these caregivers do not have seniors who supervise them. On the other hand, you will find there is one nurse who will be busy and dedicated to her duty. Near her, there will be some other nurses who would just be playing around and talking.
They tell you that they are not on their work station.
What we know is, when you leave your home and go to a hospital, you are looking for treatment and you do not care about the official who is going to take care of you. So, when they look at you, you feel very bad. We have people who want to live a healthy life. Some of these people may want to live a healthy life but cannot afford the items which they need. This is because the goods that they need are in the shops and the prices have sky rocketed. What I have noticed is that as legislators, at times we talk a lot and talk about prices going down but we do not make a follow up. In the shops, you find the price of basic goods such as salt, milk, cooking oil, et cetera have sky rocketed and we do not make a follow up. It is quite a pity that these business people increase prices to such unaffordable range. This results in that whosoever may want to live on that food cannot afford it because the price is beyond their reach. I am saying as Government, as legislators let us make a thorough follow up on implementation of decreases in prices.
In some cases, hospitals lack water to be used. I once visited Nyamhunga Clinic and there was no water. At Hurungwe Hospital, water is definitely a problem and electricity is also a problem; yet we are looking at an institution which is referred to as a hospital. This is quite a pity. Let us look for ways of solving these problems. Hon. Sen. Tawengwa who just made his contribution said leaders, when we talk about the Budget, let us talk to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Dr. Chombo so that he puts more money on health issues. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 1st November, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 1st November, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON PEACE
AND SECURITY ON THE PREPAREDNESS OF THE GRAIN
MARKETING BOARD TO HANDLE THE 2016/2017 CROP
DELIVERIES AND THE SUCCESS OF THE COMMAND
AGRICULTURE PROGRAMME
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security on the preparedness of the Grain Marketing Board to handle the 2016 / 2017 crop deliveries and the success of the Command Agriculture
Programme.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 1st November, 2017.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON PROMOTING
STAKEHOLDER AND PARLIAMENTARY DIALOGUE ON THE
ARMS TRADE TREATY (ATT)
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe delegation to the International Conference on Promoting Stakeholder and Parliamentary Dialogue on Arms Trade
Treaty.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 1st November, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. TAWENGWA, seconded by HON. SEN. MASUKU, the Senate adjourned at Half past Three
O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday 10th October, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
INVITATION TO THE ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY
CAUCUS MEETING
THE HON. PRESIDEN OF THE SENATE: All Members of
the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus are invited to a meeting on Wednesday, 11th October, 2017 at 1000 hours in the Senate Chamber.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the women’s manifesto. We really would like to urge Hon. Women Members to show up tomorrow. This meeting was supposed to take place today but it did not make a quorum. It is for women Members of Parliament’s own good. I would urge women Members of Parliament, Senators to please show up tomorrow so that this manifesto can be put together. You should feel proud that you have had your input into whatever is going to come out.
So, please do show up tomorrow. Thank you.
LAUNCH OF THE BIOMETRIC VOTER REGISTRATION (BVR) EXERCISE
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) will launch and explain the Biometric Voter Registration (BVR) exercise to all
Members of Parliament tomorrow in the National Assembly starting at
0830 hours. ZEC will also facilitate the registration of all Members of
Parliament over a number of days. To facilitate the registration exercise, Hon. Members are kindly requested to bring their national identity cards, passports and proof of registration. – [HON. SENATORS: Proof of residence.] – Well that is what is written here. Proof of residence.
Again I would like to urge Hon. Members to make it by 0830 hours in the National Assembly so that we make any comments about ZEC, we will have first hand information as legislators. It is important for us to attend tomorrow.
HON: SEN. MASHAVAKURE: On a point of order Madam President. Are we suspending the thematic committee meetings tomorrow?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I do not think so.
You are urged to attend. It is 0830 hours to 1000 hours can you not attend.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: My meeting starts at 0900
hours.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: At least you will
have heard something for 30 minutes. I am advised that there are no committees on Wednesday, so that falls away Hon. Sen. Mashavakure.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: There is a Human Rights
Committee on Wednesday.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Those who can
make it - I did say those who can make it, please show up. There are no committees tomorrow. If Hon. Sen. Mashavakure has a Committee, well I guess he will have to make up his mind on where he wants to go but I am appealing to the rest of the Hon. Senators to please show up.
You know, we are people’s representatives: so this is beneficial to us – to know what it is all about as legislators. So, I think we should play our part because it is good for us, let us show up tomorrow. I thank you. – [AN HON. SENATOR: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. SEN. GOTO: On a point of order Madam President, what of those who have already registered?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Please just show
up tomorrow so that you meet with the people from ZEC. What is important is for them to explain the Biometric Voter Registration (BVR) to you and for you to pose questions on that particular exercise. I think that is very important. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Madam President, I move that
Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until the rest of the
Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th October, 2017.
MOTION
CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS AND
IMPLEMENTATION REGISTER
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Code of
Conduct and Ethics.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th October, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
PEACE AND SECURITY ON THE PREPAREDNESS OF THE
GRAIN MARKETING BOARD TO HANDLE THE 2016/2017
CROP DELIVERIES AND THE SUCCESS OF THE
COMMAND AGRICULTURE PROGRAMME
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report
of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security on the Preparedness of the Grain Marketing Board to handle the 2016/17 crop deliveries and the success of the Command Agriculture programme.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CARTER: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity and Chairman, Hon. Sen. Mumvuri for the report about Command Agriculture.
I would like to mention the name of the Chief Executive Officer of the Zimbabwe Farmers Union (CFU), Mr. Paul Zakariya. He explained in a recent interview that Command Agriculture was basically an inputs scheme. He said that for those who managed to access the scheme, their crops performed very well despite challenges caused by the armyworm and late deliveries of fertiliser and herbicides. The ZFU which has about 75 000 farmers on their books and is the biggest farming organisation, many of them are small and large scale commercial farmers. Only about 500 secured inputs through Command Agriculture.
When he was questioned as to why this was so and whether his
ZFU farmers had failed to meet the stipulated requirements for Command Agriculture, he said no, it was not that; it was more information dissemination and there was quite a lot of confusion about terms, who to approach and how to get enlisted. So, for him it was a disappointing exercise but for the people who managed to do it, it was obviously very successful. Most of his farmers battled to get inputs, it is a perennial problem amongst his farmers of getting inputs for a whole year ahead. A few funded themselves, others got contracts and most would love to approach the banks but the banks are reluctant to lend because the 99 year lease is not bankable.
I would like to quote so that I do not get it wrong, if I may read what he said to me Madam President. He said, ‘we are now talking about an active land market. If we do not have an active land market,this land will not have value and nobody is going to lend to someone who has an asset which has no value. The problem is not with the bank, the problem is with the instrument itself. The 99-Year Lease in its current form will not give comfort to financial institutions, so they will not accept it as security. We have been assured of this many times that it is coming, but it is not coming.
Most of our Government officials and influential people in authority actually hold 99-Year Leases which they cannot use to borrow. This is still him speaking – so I would think that high ranking officials should see that as a problem because it is in their interest to use that instrument as security and not use their houses in towns. So he appeals that those in authority should address this so that ordinary farmers who do not have houses in towns can also use the leases as security. In other words, Command Agriculture has done well for certain a number of people. If we want it to do well for everybody, we have to equalise it and his solution is to make the 99-Year Leases bankable. The issue remains, we only need command agriculture because the Government does not allow its own people to own land. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: I thank you Madam President. I would
like to make a small contribution on the motion raised in this House. When we moved around during a public hearing looking at the progress of Command Agriculture, we were informed that there was no insurance and what it means is that if such a project is not covered by insurance when there is disaster there is going to be a lot of problems for the people affected. We will then know that if the project is a failure, it is not the fault of the farmer but the system. As far as I am concerned if we are using public funds on a trial and error basis it shows we do not care for this. So, what we encourage is that we need to put more emphasis on the financial support for such a programme especially insurance so that we do not waste taxpayers money.
We also asked where the finances used in the command agriculture were coming from and we were told that we should not bother about where the money came from. This means that there is no transparency because some people were saying the money was coming from a donor, while others were saying from Government. In other places, people were saying the money was sourced from such a place. There is no need for us to hide the source of this funding because if a project is funded by Government – Government does not create money but money comes from the public and the public has a right to know how the money is used.
We also noticed that when beneficiaries where selected, it seems that some people are of the opinion that the beneficiaries of this programme are decided on partisan lines and yet what we know is that such a noble programme should benefit everybody regardless of the political party which they belong to because the aim is to fight hunger in the country so that Zimbabwe again dominates in food production in southern Africa. We also observed that when seeds were distributed they were simply dumped onto the people without asking them whether it was suitable for the rain pattern in their region. We believe in that the farmers know their climate better and they should be given a chance to select some seeds which are adaptable to their farming areas. We had a situation whereby dry areas like Chivi were given seeds which needed a
lot of rains.
I will conclude by saying this is a very noble programme and whosoever has been engaged in this programme should benefit. As of now people are not very sure as to how people should be paid when they take their grain to GMB because some are told it will take a week for papers to be processed and some are saying two weeks while others are saying three weeks. We need to be very clear on that so that this programme becomes a success.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: I thank you Madam President for
giving me the chance to make my contribution on this report which has been tabled by the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security which is chaired by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri. We are very grateful for scouting and seeking knowledge on how Command Agriculture is progressing. We need to have a research so that we know how successful this programme was. I am grateful to the Government of Zimbabwe because when the programme was introduced it was said to be an import substitution programme because there were a lot of things which were affecting agriculture in the country such as the rainfall patterns and other economic challenges and at times people thought that farmers were lazy.
When the programme was introduced, it showed that the people of Zimbabwe are really hardworking and they had a bumper harvest because they had been given all the inputs on time.
We know there could be some people who did not do as much as they were expected but we know that in every experiment there are bound to be some challenges and we believe as we go into the next season, people have learnt their lessons and they have made their corrections. As we are now many people have been asked to register for Command Agriculture and some have done that. In my constituency people who are in the A1 programme have already started benefiting from the inputs of this season.
This programme was a success in that we know that our GMB silos which were dilapidated because they were out of use, were refurbished and the infrastructure which was crumbling was resuscitated. We were informed by the Minister of Agriculture that the refurbishment of silos was an ongoing progress.
I hope that as we progress with this Command Agriculture we need to source for driers which would be installed at every GMB depot, because without these driers farmers will be in problems. There were situations whereby a farmer would carry about three tonnes to a GMB depot and that would be rejected because the moisture content was incorrect. If we have these driers at GMB depots, then farmers will benefit.
I am pleading with the extension officers to work very hard, especially in checking the moisture content which should be about 12.5 and the moisture should be checked when the grain is still at the farmer’s homestead so that we do not carry to the Grain Marketing Board (GMB). When it is rejected, you bring it back or at times you have to buy some tents so that you dry it and this will raise the cost of production. I am saying, agricultural extension officers should be helpful. We have noticed that this Command Agriculture Programme has since been introduced in the wheat crop with the aim of reducing the import expenses on wheat.
We encourage the Government to work hard towards promoting this Command Agriculture through the use of opening up more irrigation schemes. I am saying, when we are talking of the irrigation scheme, we are not talking of a give-away from the state, but we are saying, farmers should pay for the services of erecting this irrigation facility and farmers should be helped in engaging in water harvesting. If we do that, agriculture will develop through these irrigation programmes.
I can safely say with confidence, Command Agriculture was a great success and if you want to join, you are free to do so. We know that there are some of us who can join this programme without asking for money from the state, they have their own money, which is alright. However, from the past, we used to know that, even white farmers who were doing well in this country used to borrow money from the banks and they will use their other money for capital development. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. BUKA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me a chance to make my contribution on this motion about Command Agriculture which was launched this year. I will start by being grateful to His Excellency, Cde, Robert, Gabriel Mugabe, ministers and all
Government officials who took part in the success of this Command
Agriculture. I am now aged, but since the time I was born, I have never seen such an amount of grain. I visited the GMB in Nembudziya and I was mesmerised by the excess supply of maize at the GMB. Some of the maize was covered in tents. I am very grateful to this Command Agriculture Programme. What we know is that, whenever a new programme is launched, there are bound to be some feasibility problems, which have to be noted and corrected so that when the next phase comes, we will be making informed decisions because we will have eliminated all the drawbacks identified in the initial project.
I was very much grateful for this Command Agriculture because I noticed that with the A2 farmers, the agricultural extension officers were moving around the farms and working together with the farmers checking on whether they had irrigation facilities and also whether they had farming equipment so that they could carry out a successful programme. They also wanted to check on the stability of that farmer because there were some things which were not given as inputs but were needed as the farmers’ initiative.
We noticed that civil servants were moving around the country checking on the legitimacy of the beneficiaries and some of these people who benefitted were very successful. Yes, we know that in any programme, there are bound to be some failures. This was a success because, unlike the banks, which call for collateral security and interest, when we talk of the Command Agriculture, the collateral was the ownership of land and an irrigation scheme or access to it.
Consequently, the people of Zimbabwe were able to put together their finances in order to develop their programmes. We believe that should this programme continue, the farmers will definitely develop. I met some of the farmers who were beneficiaries to this programme. They informed me that they had already bought some equipment such as shelling machines, tractors and sprayers because it is a programme for development.
As far as I am concerned, this programme should be undertaken by all the people of Zimbabwe without being partisan because what we want is food security. Some families have excess grain left for the sustenance of their families. We also noticed that there are some people who are not farmers, especially from towns, who buy from supermarkets; they are assured that there is food in the country. This has shown that the Command Agriculture programme was a success.
Let me also point out that Command Agriculture did not only develop and benefit the farmers only, but there were other downstream beneficiaries such as transporters, suppliers of herbicides and millers and other goods and service providers. This means that they had to live a happy life. The people who are involved in the supply of agricultural products like seeds and chemicals all benefited and definitely had a successful season.
We also have some people who managed to repay their loans through the successes of Command Agriculture. I am emphasising that this was a success and I personally am very glad about this programme because it developed individuals and other organisations in the country. Above all, it fights starvation in the country. We were always talking about importing grain or food into the country, but I am sure the bumper harvest we had will lead to Zimbabwe being able to export grain and once again reasserting our country as the breadbasket of Southern Africa. I am therefore very glad that this Committee obtained this observation when they were going right round the country on the successes of the Command Agriculture. I know we had problems in the initial stages but that is what happens in the growth of a child who starts by crawling, walking and running. That is what we did with this programme. My hope and wish is that the GMB will be able to pay the farmers for the grain deliveries they made to the depots. I know there could be delays but the crux of the matter is that farmers are being paid their monies. I say to my fellow Hon. Members across the party lines, this was a good programme, let us keep it up.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th October, 2017.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON PROMOTING
STAKEHOLDER AND PARLIAMENTARY DIALOGUE ON THE
ARMS TRADE TREATY (ATT)
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe delegation to the International Conference on Promoting
Stakeholder and Parliamentary Dialogue on Arms Trade Treaty.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me the chance to make my contribution on this Report. I hope I find you well President of the Senate. Other Senators have debated before me and I would like to make my contribution on the International Conference on Promoting Stakeholder and Parliamentary Dialogue on the Arms Trade Treaty that was held at Pullman Teranga Hotel in Dakar,
Senegal from the 13th to 14th June, 2017.
Mr. President, let me talk about what was discussed by the
Zimbabwean delegation that attended this Conference in Senegal, Dakar. They were talking about the trade of arms, both great and small that are used in fighting where people are either killed or maimed because they are fighting for a certain cause. The idea was to target the people that trade into the arms that they should not recklessly sell these arms. They should be selective as to whom they sell to and it should be for a particular reason. As far as we know, Zimbabwe is a peaceful country, what I do not know is, when these delegates went to that meeting, did they make the contribution that in Zimbabwe, we do not allow these guns to be seen everywhere. The strict laws we have prohibit the willy nilly use of these guns. Even when we are fighting as individuals, we do not use guns.
I remember, in one certain developed country in America, there was a certain man who took many guns into a hotel. Some of the guns were big and some were small. This person murdered 52 people using those guns. In the process, he also injured 524 people. This is quite surprising as to why this should be happening in a developed country whereby anybody can get hold of any kind of weapon that they want. Above that, staking such weapons into a hotel, this man disturbed people who were going about their lives innocently and enjoying themselves.
When they were investigating, they searched this man’s house and found that he also had arsenal in his home, a big catchy of arms.
I am sure the Zimbabwean delegation that went to this Conference were listening and gathering information because it was something strange to them because in Zimbabwe, we are very strict in handling and distribution of guns, whether big or small. We say they should not be sold in shops like we do with bread, soft drinks and beer because if they are sold in such open markets, people will murder or injure each other. I remember some days, when we were in the Army, when some of the people who had been engaged in the war came back, they were encouraged to take their guns at home. These would be stored in a gun cabinet. These people would be told about what had happened when they were out, especially misbehaviours by their spouses. It was discovered that it was not necessary for people to take the guns home because they will be used to kill others.
The other time when the soldiers were coming from war, instead of taking these guns home, they were taken and stored in an armoury so that whenever you are told something bad and you become angry, you will not run for a gun to shoot whoever has offended you. We are saying this leads to a peaceful life. I am saying to the delegation that attended the Conference, whether they will go back or whether there will be another session; when they attend this conference again, they should be proud of Zimbabwe. They should tell the story of Zimbabwe that Zimbabwe is a peaceful country.
We also advise that guns should not be sold in the open market as we do with bread and cheese, beers and soft drinks. They should be sold discreetly. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 12th October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO THE PARLIAMENTARIANS FOR GLOBAL
ACTION CHAPTER (PGA) MEETING
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform members of
the Parliamentarians for Global Action Zimbabwe Chapter (PGA) that they are invited to a meeting on Tuesday, 17th October, 2017, at 12 noon in the Government Caucus.
HON. MANDIPAKA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. My
point of order is in terms of the privileges standing order. I am making a follow up; sometime in the month of June, there was an indication that Hon. Members will get their outstanding allowances and CDF. I want to find out whether that commitment is still there and can we be assured that we are going to get our allowances and CDF – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I can see that all Hon.
Members are in support of that point of order. However, this is an administrative issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] -
Order, order Hon. Members – [HON. MEMBERS: No, no, we want our monies] – There are issues which are not supposed to be discussed in the House, those are administrative issues; at the end of the day, all the newspapers will be awash with this issue.
HON. MUNENGAMI: No, Madam Speaker …..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon.
Munengami, Hon. Members, you will be advised about the outcome on this issue, something is being worked out.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Madam Speaker,
I move that Orders of the Day, numbers 1 to 10 be stood over until
Order of the Day Number 11 on today’s Order Paper has been dealt
with.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. SAMUKANGE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Order numbers 8 and 9 should not be on the Order Paper because they have been already dealt with. It is not fair to me because it appears as if I am incompetent because this has already been dealt with, why are they appearing on the Order Paper?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the best way is to
approach the Chair. We are not fighting in this House, if you have something, approach the Chair.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Madam President. I
just want to say that once we have discussed issues in this House and you give a ruling to the effect that what I will have said is relevant, you find that some of the Hon. Members here go to Meikles hotel and spend three to four hours talking and planning how they can deal with me. I do not think that is good practice and has any positive bearing on my life. Madam Speaker, I as Chinotimba, am more loyal to the President of the country because I was with him in the liberation struggle and protected each other during the struggle. So we do not want people who were expoliceman to sit down and start having their caucus alleging that I have disrespected the President …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Member,
please approach the Chair.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, I think we
have procedures in this House. I am busy conducting business and you stand up and disturb the Chair. Why are you doing that? Are you supposed to stand up whilst I am talking? The rules of this House do not allow you to do that. Hon. Maridadai, take your seat please.
*HON. MUKWENA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the
opportunity that you have afforded me to also add my voice to the
President’s speech. I would want to thank His Excellency, the President Cde. Robert Mugabe for talking on the issue dealing with Bills. I anticipate that the Bills will be brought before this august House and when they do, we should scrutinise them because there are certain Bills that come through this House which do not serve the interests of our people. I will give an example of the Bill that came from the Ministry of
Lands and Rural Resettlement. I urge the responsible Minister, his officials and his legal advisor to sit down and address the current Bill and see if it is in the interest of the poor that live in the communal lands. There are certain sections within that Bill which need to be looked into.
The Bill should be pro-poor people. The levies that are contained in that Bill are a cause for concern to the people. If people worked for this independence and achieved the independence, why then are we having such high levies? The Ministry should revisit that issue. Hon. Mombeshora, people are mourning over the levies that you want to impose on them.
I also want to reiterate the issue of ZIM ASSET and say due to the climate change, we no longer have substantial rainfall. The Ministry responsible for water resources development and dams should ensure that each district has a dam. These dams should be in the constituencies. We do not have big rivers, dams or boreholes but when such Bills are being enacted, the relevant ministries should also address such issues so that each constituency benefits in terms of water. Thank you Madam
Speaker.
*HON. MACKENZIE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was going to speak in Tonga but reforms have not been done and we do not have Tonga translators as yet, so I am going to speak in Shona.
*HON. MACKENZIE: I would like to thank you for the
opportunity that you have afforded me to debate the Presidential Speech. Madam Speaker, it was an important speech which we accept and the issues mentioned are useful in the development of the country. As regards the laws, there are a lot of laws which need to be looked into, especially those that are being used by a lot of Ministries but the majority of these laws are archaic. They were enacted a long time ago during the colonial regime and if you look at the National Parks and Wildlife Management Act of 1977, it is still in use but it has been overtaken by time. If you look into my constituency which is Kariba, the law is being applied extensively to oppress our people.
In Kariba there is a leisure bay which is on the shores of Lake
Kariba and this is where the whites used to enjoy themselves - from
Mahombekombe to Nyamhunga. The same law still applies today and our indigenous people are not benefitting because they are not allowed to be on the shores of Lake Kariba or to even go and fish from there. They are being charged $5 to be allowed to go and fish. The places where the blacks are being barred from fishing, the whites go there and they fish free of charge, which I believe is not good. There is one of the whites called Houghton in Kariba and if we look at some of the laws that are in existence, I do not know how the people who are in the kapenta fishing industry are fined because they are being forced to pay heavy fines. If anyone is found with nets for kapenta in shallow waters; they are made to pay $2 000 to $2 500 and the majority of our people are in dire straits as they are unable to raise such fines. Once you are caught, your boats will be confiscated by the Parks and Wildlife Management will only be released after you have paid the fine. Thirty-seven years down the road after independence to have such laws is unacceptable Madam Speaker, because these laws are oppressive to our people.
On economic issues in Kariba, our people make a life out of fishing through kapenta and gillnet fishing. The problem that we face currently is that if you go to the same lake, those that are in Zambia pay $400 per year for kapenta fishing and in Zimbabwe you pay $2 000 per year, which is $500 quarterly. For the other quarter, they do not embark on any fishing but they are asked to pay the money, regardless of them not fishing in that quarter. In Mozambique at Kabora Bassa, they pay $800 and we believe that such laws are punitive to our own indigenous people.
Those that are into gillnet fishing, they fish for tiger fish and bream. In the same Lake Kariba on the Zambian side, they use twine nets which are also used here at Lake Chivero but if you are in Kariba on the Zimbabwean side, you are told that it is an offence to have twine nets and you are fined. At the same time, there is not even a single company that is making the required nylon nets. So, it is difficult for the Government to implement laws where one is supposed to use nylon nets when they are not being manufactured locally and I wonder how they expect our people to come across these nylon nets. We want such issues to be addressed.
Madam Speaker, I believe that the others who spoke in here yesterday about the other problem that we are facing as Hon. Members, the majority of them will agree with me that it is the issue of some Members coming from far away constituencies. I have spent almost five years and some Ministers have not been to my Constituency; which makes it difficult in that even if you raise your problems here in this august House with their Ministries, they do not have the passion to go and see the things on the ground. We urge the Executive to be seen going round the constituencies - for example in 2013, I had three bridges that were washed away by heavy rains. I reported such mishaps to the relevant authorities within 24 hours and ZTV and provincial engineers came and it came out on national television. People expected that there was going to be redress on the situation.
The people in Mola after we have gone past Musambakaruma – we have problems that it is only a month before the onset of the rains and the clinics on the southern part will be cut off from Siyakobvu hospital.
Kariba was wayward, we now have Nyami Nyami FM which is a community radio. Our people who were not accessing ZTV and ZBC are now able to know what is going around them through the Nyami Nyami Community radio. To the majority of the people in Kariba, we applaud that.
Still on the communication side, it is our plea that our people should have easy access. They still go up the mountains to access the network. There is no network in Mola and Musambakaruma. It is endangering one’s life to go and phone in the mountainous terrain because of wild animals. It is difficult for one to go and phone during the night when they have a serious challenge to be addressed. The Government should look into such issues so that we can have boosters for the network, so that the people in that area can also receive communication just like any other people in the country.
Kariba is a tourist resort but nothing is moving, it is dead. We would want flights to Kariba to resume. We would want publicity of Kariba just like is the case with other areas like Victoria Falls. All conference centres that have been constructed in Victoria Falls and conferences that are being held in Victoria Falls should also be transferred to Kariba. This will enable tourism to grow in that area. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MAWERE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I add my voice
to the Presidential Speech. I am going to deal with issues that relate to my Constituency. They could even be nationwide problems.
Firstly, I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Mackenzie and the seconder. They did well to give us an opportunity to debate the matter. I am going to talk about developmental issues as regards road infrastructure. For this year, we say some road infrastructure issues were attended to. Government attempted to deal with roads in the majority of the areas. The issue of bridge construction may still be outstanding, but work is still in progress on the construction of roads. We want them to intensify that.
As regards road infrastructure, we want to talk about the Road Accident Fund. The fund is being very useful because in the past, people did not receive compensation. In the past, insurance companies used to just give them US$500 which would not assist them in doing anything, but its establishment helps those that would have been killed or their orphans will get something. Once the breadwinner is deceased, they may not find anything to alleviate their plight.
I would want to talk about the development of schools. In my constituency in Mutoko East, we have students walking for 15km. This is not ideal for school children. This is tantamount to child abuse. They should not be moving 15km or so. The relevant Ministry should address such a situation. They should go out and carry out surveys. We draw from the same well and yet other areas are developed and others are not. I am talking of such areas such as Nyamuzizi and Chidye. There was once an accident and Gejo RaRubby on a black Sunday. They carried a coffin for 15 km because there is no bridge that links the two areas.
Once they hear such debates they will look into the issues of constructing bridges so that these areas can be linked, because children are being swept away by water after it would have rained. They should also ensure that the Nyangombe bridge which links Manicaland and Mutoko are operational. You are unable to cross the river although you can shout and communicate to each other across the river. Transport that comes from Nyanga comes through Harare instead of going straight through 40km. So we urge the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development to ensure that things are corrected.
The same area used to have wild animals. It is very difficult for people to live there. Some people might be under the mistaken belief that animals are still in there, but people are now living in that area. They require basics. They should access radio and television. Children do not know the joy of watching television. We urge that television services be provided for such areas.
Child marriages are also rife in that area. 11 year old children are getting married to 60 year old men. There are still arranged marriages in those areas. They are giving young girls to old men like myself. We want coverage so that the culprits are exposed and the children are also socialised through television. They no longer know what is right. They sternly believe that what is being done is the correct thing.
Electrification is another issue that we would want attended to.
REA should ensure that our area is electrified. In Chidye and Nyamuzizi, we require electricity so that the children in those areas could also benefit as the case is with those children that are in Harare, Masvingo and Zvimba so that they have the same accesses. I thank you with those few words Madam Speaker.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to add my voice to the speech presented to this House by His Excellency. There are several things that the President talked about, but I will concentrate on only four issues that particularly affect the part of the country where I come from.
Madam Speaker, the President talked about education. On issues of education, in my constituency Madam Speaker, there is a particular problem of examination centres when it comes to this time of the year.
As we speak, students are writing their O’Level and A’ Level examinations and I have several schools in my area - more than 10 secondary schools, which are writing examinations in a camped situation. They have moved from their original schools and have camped some 20km to 30km away from their schools without food; with more like basic things for camping and some are literally in camps, some sleeping in classrooms mainly because they are not allowed to write examinations in their own schools because the Ministry of Education requires that those school must be registered.
When schools have to be registered, there are specific requirements that the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education requires, but some of these schools have those requirements. They have enough desks or furniture, they have enough rooms, they have safes, but they cannot be registered because there is an extra requirement that the Department of Physical Planning must survey those schools and make sure they appear on the cadastral maps of the country. One wonders how physical planning comes in issues of ensuring that the school is registered for exams. I think this is one area where the Ministry of Education must assist us because there is no way you can expect those particular schools Madam Speaker, to perform and compare at national level when they are writing in situations where they have to camp like refugees in their major schools. This is a very serious problem which needs urgent attention if we have to see equitable development of our school curricular and the school performances in these areas.
There is the issue of deployment of teachers which Hon.
Mackenzie from Kariba articulated. I do not know what policy Government is using of late. Third term, we witnessed a situation where several buses carrying teachers from Mashonaland colleges taking up positions in our schools. we have our own local teachers sitting without employment but we get teachers from other colleges instead of the colleges within the region. I think this needs an explanation because if teachers have the same qualification, well for secondary schools we can appreciate that perhaps some teachers may have specific majored in subjects, but a primary school trained teacher at Chinhoyi Teachers’ College, Belvedere or Seke Teachers’ College is equally trained and has the same qualification like the one from Hillside or United Teachers’
College. I think this is an issue which is worrying the residents of our particular areas where you get several teachers from Mashonaland occupying places of people in our areas. We are not worried if those teachers came with their qualifications but if the local teachers are available from United College, let them be deployed in those areas.
I think the explanation that we got so far is that the Ministry is now employing from Harare. Now, our local teachers from our regions will be sitting there waiting for deployments and the teachers around here quickly take up the posts and are deployed in our areas. For example in Binga, I got to a school and the teacher could understand the local language. The teacher has to ask kuti ichi chinonzi chii. Teachers are being taught by kids in order for the teacher to teach back. It is really funny and we wonder how such things happen. We appreciate the availability of trained teachers but let them be conversant in the local languages, particularly at lower grades. There is no excuse because the teachers are there.
In the area of the economy Madam Speaker, the President said a lot about the economy. I think the major challenge we have in solving our economic problem is there is some discord in terms of policy. Just yesterday, I went to some place called AE Electrical in Southerton. There is a local company producing solar geysers. These local bulbs and locally produced knapsacks; I think their brand is Morgrid. The challenge here is the disparities or the discords in policies. The Ministry of Finance through ZIMRA allows knapsacks to be imported and go through the border duty free and substandard, but when the local company which is providing jobs imports raw materials for manufacturing the same better quality knapsack sprays are not exempted from duty.
When these local companies produce enough because there are so many gadgets that they produce, when they produce for export ZIMRA does not give them Certificates of Origin. When they export to Malawi and Zambia where they have a big market, they are forced to compete with South African companies that are holding Certificates of Origin because when you have a Certificate of Origin, you are not charged exorbitant duties by the receiving countries or markets. For example, I was advised that for exporting to Malawi without a Certificate of Origin, the company is charged 30% and yet the South African companies or the SADC region would have been carrying their Certificate of Origin and are not charged. So, the competition in terms of prices becomes difficult but at the same time, the Minister of Finance, by then Hon. Chinamasa, was always talking about wanting to increase production industries so that we are able to earn foreign currency but we are not supporting our local companies that are prepared to export and are manufacturing locally. That is one area that needs to be looked at extensively.
Secondly Madam Speaker, in Bulawayo we have one company, the only one in the whole country and only one producing the best tyres in the region, Dunlop and it has closed. Once Dunlop closes, most of us driving pickups or land cruisers size 16 tyres; that is the only company that was able to make them. As a result of the closure of Dunlop, you find a lot of Chinese tyres. If you drive along Seke Road from the flyover upto almost a kilometre before Chitungwiza, all those areas have Chinese companies selling substandard tyres which Dunlop could be making. Why do we not as Government capacitate Dunlop because they have the capacity and have the quality products but we allow Dunlop to close and allow the Chinese to bring substandard tyres and take our foreign currency back to China? Whereas, we could capacitate Dunlop which might need only about $500 000, but we are not able to do that. If we allow such strategic companies to close and when we have shortages of good quality tyres, you know what it means; accidents and flight of foreign currency.
I think these are areas which Government must seriously look at. If Government does not have money, it is very simple if you want to capacitate production. Charge these Chinese companies import tax for bringing in foreign products even if it means one percent but by the volumes of commodities that they bring in the one percent will translate to a lot of millions per month. We take those millions and give Dunlop a loan, Government will not have lost anything and we do not need to look for that money. The people importing will be charged to support the
local industries and we do the same to several industries, I am sure our problems will be gone.
There is the issue of ZISCO Steel Madam Speaker. The President went to ZISCO and we accompanied him. It was open, there was a lot of funfair and we celebrated, but up to now ZISCO Steel is still closed and yet if ZISCO was opened today, half of Zimbabwe’s problems would be solved – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – ZISCO will definitely capacitate Hwange because all the coking coal from Hwange will go to ZISCO. Coke from Hwange will go to ZISCO and when coke comes from Hwange to ZISCO, it comes by train. Definitely, the National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ) will come up because they will now
benefit.
If ZISCO increases up in the production of steel, there is a lot of oxygen that is used. That is why we had Sable Chemicals which manufactures fertilizer. Sable Chemicals, in the production of fertilizers produced a lot of oxygen which was then sold at a low rate to ZISCO. In turn, the production of fertilizer because you are now selling free oxygen, it makes the price of fertilizer go down and that helps our farmers. In the production of fertilizer at Sables itself, there is a lot of hydrogen released and that is why we had nearby, Dyno Nobel which produced a lot of explosives for mines next to ZISCO there. So, the mining sector will also benefit from that because if you ask many people in the mining industry, they are importing explosives from China and many other places. There are so many restrictions in buying explosives to the extent that some of the explosives they are buying are from the black market and that is not helping anyone. So, there are these basic things that we do not seem to appreciate as a Government.
Sometimes Madam Speaker, I believe that perhaps one of our major problems is the flight of skilled manpower in the Civil Service because these are basic things that they must advise Ministers so that they are implemented. If you ask me how much is needed for the resuscitation of ZISCO, it is not money that we may get from the investors. We could do it locally as a country because we have many other areas where we could do savings and gradually capacitate ZISCO.
ZISCO would also help in the resuscitation of the industry. I was driving along Mvuma road the other day. I counted up to one hundred and five thirty tone trucks, magonyeti, carrying steel from South Africa. How much foreign currency are we losing importing all that kind of steel? These are basic things that do not need even an economist to think about. You just need common sense to implement such things.
I am one person Madam Speaker that does not believe that this issue of bond notes will ever solve our problems. I was talking to the Speaker quietly that if bond notes will solve our problems, I am betting with a beast to come and get it from my home because there is no such thing. That policy does not work and I think all Government economists advise the Government. To imagine that all the intelligent people in Government could sit down and think of bond notes as a solution to our problems, you really do not understand and say may be people are no longer taking time or they have no interest of this country at heart.
Madam Speaker, in the mining sector, at the floor of this House sometime in January, the Minister of Mines told us that he got an investor to resuscitate the Kamativi Dams so that they process lithium, and lithium because of the clean fuel technology that is being talked about the world over, even if you go to Europe, they are now thinking of putting on mass production battery vehicles. Battery power is the future and lithium is a major component of batteries. Kamativi has plenty of lithium because when they were mining the tin, they had no interest in the lithium and it is plenty on the dams.
An investor is there, the Minister confirmed in January that we now have an investor who is prepared, but that investor has been waiting since January to just be given the licence. He is partnered with ZMDC. What is the fear of Government because he is not alone? He is partnered with ZMDC. So, why do we not allow such investments to start off so that we start earning some foreign currency? By the way, that particular investor was going to resuscitate a major plant in Kwekwe. He was also prepared to reorganise the Railway and fund between Dete and Kwekwe to plan where he wants to process the lithium. But, from January up to now, the Minister is sitting on the papers within the Executive.
I think these are some of the issues that we, as Parliament should scrutinise and see what we can do. There is no reason Madam Speaker why Hwange Colliery must collapse. We have never heard of any shortage of market for coal. Zimbabwe or Hwange Colliery has the best coal in the world, with high calorific value, low sulphur content and no impurities. We have three types, coke in coal for coke, power coal for the generators but up to now, you hear people are not paid in Hwange, but the coal is being sold every day. So, what is happening? There is something completely wrong.
I have a very big mine in Binga, Lusulu Coal and the other one that is Lelubu. There is an investor who is prepared to put up a very big power station for 300 mega watts...
[Time Limit]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, your time is
up.
HON. GABBUZA: As I conclude, that 300 mega watt power
station, we have a shortage of energy. The investor has been twisted from one corner of Government to another for 2 years.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I move that the Hon. Member’s time be extended.
HON. BHEBHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. GABBUZA: Madam Speaker as I conclude, this is where we are saying perhaps as Parliament, we must investigate some of these things. Some people are sitting on very serious investments. We do not have power in the country and we have this company which is prepared to put a very big generator, 300 mega watts which would make a difference in the energy sector. It would produce jobs for our people and it is a low cost energy because they will simply use Zambezi water to cool their turbines and their machines, and flow back the water into the lake, but we sit on such very serious investment and nobody seems to be interested.
We are not in a hurry but at the same time, we are crying that we do not have money and no cash. Where does the money come from if we do not allow these investors to come in? If it is about indigenisation, let us allow them to put the infrastructure. After some years, chase them when the infrastructure is already there than to keep them at bay. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MANGWENDE: First and foremost, I would want to thank our President, His Excellency Cde. R. G. Mugabe for what he has done in Harare. There was too much dirty in Harare, but I saw the city being cleaned. Harare City Council was afraid of moving people out of Harare but the CBD is now clean. I would want to thank him for that.
I now move to the transport sector. A lot of people are losing their lives on the roads and this is being caused by the police and the VID.
They are going past these roadblocks when they are defective. Thereafter, people are involved in accidents. How is it that the vehicle has passed through the roadblock by the police and members from the
VID? Life is important and it must be held with sanctity. The transporters should ensure that they have a lot of drivers who are not weary of driving. They should be given time off and should not be on duty for an entire week because this leads to accidents because of fatigue.
As a result, the driver sleeps whenever he stops to drop off passengers. I urge the police officers and officials from the VID to do their duty because human life is important. –[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.]- Death means the same thing and I am talking to the Chair Honourable Member. In terms of human trafficking, we are the authors of our own demise. Whenever we hear that there is work, ask your local MP or your local councillor if it is good to send your child to go and work in that area. This should not be treated as a secretive thing that your daughter has found work in Kuwait or Cyprus, and that you look forward to getting rich.
A lot of things are being done in here. There are a lot of countries where children can safely go to school. We should assist one another. Once a child has received a scholarship, the parents should ask for advice from their local leadership and the Member of Parliament because children are being ill treated in certain Arabic countries. I recall the issue of a girl who was abused by putting something on top of her head, she was wearing a pant and a bra. Maybe that child died because of evil, a lot of dead bodies are being received because children are being sent to the wrong countries.
I will move to the issue of rape. Even fathers are raping their own daughters. Fathers rape their daughters in the presence of their wives because they share the same room. These culprits should be incarcerated for a long period; the punishments that were given to
Kereke and Gumbura are quite good. You are destroying your child’s life. Are you a father? Do you depict the correct image of a father? When we grew up we had relations with our fathers and brothers but the men of today believe that every woman, even your daughter is a wife. The modern men who behave in such a manner, behave in a wayward manner. I am saying that they should be given a mandatory sentence.
They should be given stiffer sentences; ten years is very little. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
PRE-BUDGET BRIEFING WORKSHOP
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order. I have to inform the
House that there will be a pre-budget briefing workshop on 20th October, 2017 at Pandhari Lodge at 0830 hours. All Members are urged to attend.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am grateful for
the President’s Speech. I would want to thank the ministries that are performing their duties well; the Ministry of Environment that is led by Hon. Muchinguri. They have managed to have the Tokwe Murkosi Dam constructed, the Gwayi-Shangani Dam has also been constructed and several other dams that they have started in Matabeleland North and South and the Midlands. It appears they are in the right track and should continue discharging their duties.
The major problem regarding the President’s Speech in terms of health is the matter of the eradication of HIV and AIDS. We have serious challenges in prisons. The highest infection figures are in prisons. The major problem is, we are not coming up with measures to stop the spread of HIV and AIDS. Men are involved in homosexual activities. There are some organisations that are not being targeted. We run the risk of failing to achieve the targets that we have set in the eradication and prevention of HIV and AIDS.
There is also the issue of drug abuse such as sniffing of glue and other drugs. Once these substances are inhaled, they enter the spinal cord and the brain. That may cause brain damage and has negative effects to the users. Drug addiction and abuse of drugs has now become a serious problem. The centres that we have that rehabilitate such drug addicts charge exorbitant fees. These problems affect the youths in the majority.
Also, there are no sufficient medical drugs in the country resulting in shortage of foreign currency because countries that sell drugs are coming to Zimbabwe. They wipe out the little US dollars that we have and we are experiencing foreign currency shortages. When countries such as Afghanistan and Columbia sell their drugs in Southern Africa target Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe uses the multi-currency system, especially the US dollar which is the pre-dominant currency which is readily available.
The other problem that he talked about is the issue of mines. This has been caused by corruption in the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. It has failed to promote the indigenisation thrust. Mining claims should be given to Zimbabwean citizens but the challenge that we are facing is that all people who had been given mining licences, their claims were cancelled and they are being given to whites who are coming back so that these whites can take over. The blacks will then be given tributes. This hinders the indigenisation project.
In Bindura and Shamva, there is Tapfuma Hills where about 200 blacks were mining. At the moment, all their licences have been cancelled because there is a certain white man who had pegged the area in 1972 and he paid a lot of money to the Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development. So, the claims for all the blacks have been cancelled. This is a setback in the indigenisation programme. There are also problems in the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. A lot of gold is now being accessed. We are losing a thousand tonnes of gold in Zimbabwe. If we sell a tonne of gold, we could raise $42 million. Zimbabwe is losing a lot of money. Our economy should not be bad; no one should be mourning because have a lot of gold. Other countries use their gold as reserves of their own currency. We have people that are given ministries and once they are given these ministries, they end up being corrupt to the extent that they will be filthy rich. We should promote the issue of mining.
Once upon a time, Hon. Chinamasa said all mines that are not performing should be repossessed and be distributed under the “work on it or lose it principle”. Such laws are now gathering dust in the shelves without anything being implemented. Zimbabwe now appears not to have any money although it does have a lot of wealth in the form of gold. When Germany and Britain first came to collect gold in Zimbabwe, they used their gold to back their currency. Their currency was given weight in terms of the gold bars that they had in their Reserve Bank. We have a lot of gold that has still not been mined. We are coming up with stringent measures that are barring instead of promoting artisanal mining. If you are found with one gram of gold, you are sentenced to ten years. One who is arrested with 50 kg of gold outside the country, once they bribe their way through, the gold is taken back into Zimbabwe and the offender is set free. Those that are found in possession of a few grammes of which they will be taking to Fidelity are being sentenced for ten years.
Talking about the economy, even if it were a traditional healer, the traditional healer says that for you to be rich, the medication that is being given the client should not cross a river well knowing that the client passes through the river on their way. This is not serving anyone’s interest at all.
In Shamva where I come from, we have artisanal miners who are not licenced. We have about 500 women who mine at least one gram per day. Five hundred multiplied by one gram multiplied by $42 – the country can raise a lot of money. It shows that there is endemic corruption in the Ministry of Mines. This is so because a lot of claims that were supposed to have been worked on are now being kept for speculative reasons. The white person that they are protecting who has 200 claims and resides in Tapfuma Hills is not doing anything. They are holding on to their claims but black people’s licences are being cancelled and they are being encouraged to work as tributaries to that white man. This shows that we are far in achieving the spirit of indigenisation. This is causing poverty because the relevant Ministries are not discharging their duties properly.
There is also the issue of mercury which is not being properly handled. A lot of people like the Chinese who have mills are failing to handle mercury properly because once it gets into the water, it is ingested by fish and the fish are eaten by people. In turn, people ingest mercury which can cause lung problems. If one were to breathe mercury in the gaseous form, once it enters the lungs, it solidifies and affects one’s health. A person who has ingested mercury will have their brain and spinal cord affected. Their brain may eventually fail to function properly. The failure to treat mercury properly has caused problems for Zimbabwe.
Our friends who are coming from China are making money and some of the money is not going to Fidelity. The workers who are black are handling cyanide without proper protection. As a result, some of the cyanide is spilling into the rivers and is ingested by water creatures. A lot of people are also drinking that contaminated water. As a result, these people suffer from cancer. These are some of the problems that we are facing as a country.
In my constituency, we have a serious problem of child marriages. The laws that are there do not respect marriage. Marriage simply means the paying of lobola but the problem that is there is that once you have sexual intercourse, they say that the girl should have been sixteen years or more. There should be sufficient laws that distinguish the difference between having sexual intercourse and getting married to someone. One can get pregnant without having been married if they are sixteen years and become sexually active. The law should stipulate that if you are sixteen years, you can consent to sex or something like that. The law should be very clear in saying that children who are below the age of eighteen years should not be married and should not be sexually active.
I am very grateful for what Hon. Gabbuza has said. It shows that he has done his research properly because he spoke about an economic issue. Hon. Gabbuza separates party politics and business politics. He has wisdom and knowledge. In his speech, he put it clearly that the railway line is always parallel so that the train is able to move. Once the two are put together, the two can run. His words have shown his wisdom. He is a man who can discern politicking and giving sound advice in terms of the economy. We went to his constituency; there is abundance of coal which can be dug with the picks that we use. The coal is being transported by motor vehicles. We should be looking for solutions and some of the solutions do not need any level of education. We have several engineers and some are only there in name. They are only introduced as engineers at funeral processions and at rallies.
I was looking at Victoria Falls – there are engineers like Mapiki, Engineer Mufunga who run away from coming up with solutions to power generation at our falls. Let us have qualifications that are meaningful and that we can use practically. We are importing tooth picks and sanitary pads yet we have engineers who can manufacture those. I thought the reason why I have white hair is because a lot of money was used to send our children to various schools. They were not supposed to come to us and say – where did our cattle go to when we sold all our cattle to send them to school. We anticipate that once they attain a certain level of education, they would come back and use their education to develop our country.
*HON. MAHOKA: I will start by thanking the President for the speech that he delivered to this House and then the movers of this motion.
On the issue of corruption, we may talk about corruption but we should start with Parliament. Corruption starts within this august House because if you look at it, whenever the Permanent Secretary is going out of the country, he flies on first class. The Member of Parliament flies on the economy class. Some of us, tall as we are, will have swollen legs when we get to our destinations. Permanent Secretaries are given motor vehicles to use – a vehicle that they do not pay for. He is given the car at book value. A Member of Parliament who works for this country is given a vehicle and is asked to pay for it despite the meager salary that he or she gets. We may talk about corruption but we should start with corruption in this august House.
Charity begins at home, it must not end there. We must lead by example. Police officers should arrest these people. We come up with laws and they are the ones that implement. We only receive token respect as Hon. Members yet Permanent Secretaries are the bosses.
Hon. Speaker, you are the leader of this House but compared to
Permanent Secretaries, you are below them. You may come up with laws but the fact is, Members of Parliament are given just perfunctory respect, this is meaningless. How can your farm worker have a bigger motor vehicle when you travel in a VW? He is appointed and given a bigger car. Is this not corruption? Corruption should first be eradicated from this august House, before going out there so that the police can come up and deal with those that are corrupt. I also believe that a few days ago, the President did a good thing by reshuffling Ministers because those that have taken new posts will want to prove themselves.
The same applies to a woman who will have joined a family, after a long time she will no longer be as smart as she used to. I believe the President did very well and he must go down to the Permanent Secretaries and to the boards and reshuffle them. If that is to be done, maybe the leakages that we have could be stopped because we have already identified some leakages. Bigger vehicles are being bought and I am shorter than them, tall as I am because I believe this is where the corruption starts from.
As Hon. Members, let us address that in our Constitution which was voted for by our Members of Parliament. They said there should be a 50/50 representation not just in Parliament but you do not see men standing up here and saying we should go 50/50. They oppose women and shut the door for women because they have already made a lot of money. Let us start by stopping the rot in Parliament. There should be 105 males and 105 female Members of Parliament. I believe that when you have a lot of money, you are a father and a Member of Parliament and have a wife. Bring your wife to be a Member of Parliament.
What we want is a woman, a genuine woman. If you have made money and you can campaign for her, do so to enable us to become equal in this august House. I am saying corruption starts from Parliament so we should not just have laws that are being made and being shelved. Let us be practical as Hon. Members. We should use the law appropriately. We should not just give the police the law to arrest particular individuals but we want police officers to be allowed to also arrest Members of Parliament if we do not have enough numbers.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is my request that we be allowed to hear what Hon. Mahoka is saying. This is an important debate and if you have a different view, it is being disrespectful not to listen to what the Hon. Member is saying. May we respect each other Hon. Members?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Maybe if it comes from one of
you, they may listen.
HON. MAHOKA: Thank you. I was talking about corruption and I am not yet through with the issue. Corruption hurts me. There is also corruption in that all these roads have toll gates and we have the public paying for the toll gates. We want all our roads in our constituencies to be properly constructed. We have a lot of vehicles in the communal areas and people in the communal areas also die. There is no public announcement that those in the communal areas have died but if it is along a major road it is broadcast nationwide. There should not be that discrimination with regards to road construction. We should not only be paying lip-service. Why should we be talking about major roads that link us to the borders? What about us that are landlocked in our constituencies? Charity begins at home, you first clean up your mess before you go and clean the neighbours’. I think we have a lot of corruption in this august House.
There is also the issue of dams which are debated about in this House. The people in Zimbabwe are doing their work properly. Even if you send your child as a Minister or whatever position that you have, if they are not engineers they will not accept him. Genuine engineers not those that only have paper qualifications. One may say I am an engineer simply because he/she is a child of Hon. Mahoka. When a dam is being constructed, the project is given a cost. We now celebrated the construction of the masvingo dam. Once funds have been allocated for dam construction, it should simply be used for that. There should not be any leakages.
Portfolio committees should be put to good use to ensure that there is proper oversight of the Executive. Once we do that, the police officers work becomes much easier. We should not accuse police officers of corruption when we do not blame ourselves. The buck stops with us. We should be calling Ministers and taking them to task on what they would have used the monies disbursed to them for. We will clap our hands for the Ministers and even forget that as Parliamentarians we need to eat.
When the budget comes we should not treat it with kid gloves but ensure that we are well fed. We should not be well fed using illicit means. I would want to ensure that as a worker who is doing a national duty, I should be given a motor vehicle and my fuel allowance. Members of Parliament are smuggling bread into hotels because they have nothing to eat. Some of us have farms but others do not have. How are they going to make ends meet? Let us end all this corruption and let us put our minds deeply into such issues. There is also the issue of dams that were allocated funds last year – we would want to find out what that money was used for. We also hear that there was virementing of certain funds. How were those funds diverted without the authority of
Parliament to divert that money?
A passport Madam Speaker, which enables one to travel, I queue for it at the Registrar General; with swollen legs from travelling in economy class. I move from one seat to the other at airports and the Permanent Secretary will be a distance away smiling and clapping hands and curtseying to you as if they are doing good. They will be saying these fools should go and come up with the laws whilst they enjoy the benefits. We need passports. I should go and enjoy the privileges. My child should go in the queue, just like any other person but not me. We are not doing well in that area. We need to address such issues and the time is now. We should be given free things to go and use in our constituencies as we represent the country.
We need diplomatic passports. Very sorry Hon. Member, he does not know that red and tsvuku is the same thing. I will now move to the issue of Command Farming. This is a good thing, although it is facing disturbances. We need to clearly make sure that those that did not till the land and those that did not send the required quantities after having been given implements be arrested because they are disadvantaging someone who was supposed to have benefited from those implements.
The whole idea is not to keep the implements but to use them. We now have abundance in terms of the harvest. As an august House, I propose that we arrest such culprits. As regards Command Farming, I want to thank the Government. The Government has tried in honouring payments to farmers. People are receiving their payments, GMB is not playing hide-and-seek. If Mr. Jasi is to be given a motor vehicle, he deserves it because we cannot just have figures allocated without anything being disbursed to the farmers.
Madam Speaker, the issue of tobacco is not pleasing to the Zimbabwean people. I am a tobacco farmer, we get loans, once we sell our tobacco, the Government is given US dollars but we are being given the bond notes. I want to go and buy a tractor, I am told that if it is transfer method, the tractor costs US$48 and US$35 when using cash method. So, the farmers are getting a raw deal. The Government should pay part of the amount in US dollars. Mr. Gono used to give us 20 percent back and we buy our own equipment. We should be given our US dollars and we use our own monies because the bond notes are not making use for us. It is better to bring the Zimbabwe dollar back.
The bond note has been a problem to us as.
In Hurungwe East, we produce the best leaf. We believe that those farmers that are in the other regions where tobacco is grown should be paid in multiple currencies, in US dollars, so that we are able to buy farming equipment, motor vehicles for the farms so that we become ministers in our own right. We do not covet to be ministers but I covet to be a farmer. I was given a farm and I am a minister in my own right because the minister may be followed by police officers after they have been fired and I will not be followed by anyone because I am a true farmer. Mr. Jasi will be paying money from the GMB and tobacco, so I will have enough money. Farming now pays; to those that do not have farms, please look for farms and start farming. There is need for the tobacco industry to be looked into and this should be corrected.
The maize farmers are doing quite well. The farms should be for the women and the youth. The elderly men with their long beards should live it for the women. When the farms were taken the youth were ten years old but now they are much older. The women and youth should benefit because there are others that were outside the country at work. Some people refused to chase the whites so we need to give the youth a chance to have these farms. Those with one thousand or two thousand hectares should have their land cut so that others can also be given farms. I believe thousands of hectares are too much for them, even with the assistance of Command Farming. The Government should move and see those that are growing sorabeans or grass, those that are not utilising the land should have their land revised downwards and those that are doing quite well should be given more land.
On the issue of mining, the mining sector is a painful scenario. I always hear people saying that this country is impoverished but I beg to differ, this is a land of milk and honey. Madam Speaker, if you remember when you were coming from the liberation struggle, we were welcoming you singing Zimbabwe has milk and honey but there are people who are corrupt who end up benefitting from what is supposed to benefit the populace.
There are people who have taken over mines, I think the Government should also investigate and ensure that those who have pegged so many mines should lose these mines to other people who are willing to work. If you go to the Ministry you find that they are pegging papers and nothing is being done on the ground. Some of these mines are not being utilised because they are looking for partners who are white men. It is just like the issue of diamonds, we are told that there are no more diamonds but the next thing we hear there are diamonds. If those fields were to be opened, and everyone has access to it, we will all be rich.
When it was passed that that Government should now look into the issue of diamonds, we were all happy but to-date, we have never heard that there is any money that has come from this decision. We have never heard the Minister saying there is a US$ billion ever since we started but when we used to go and mine illegally, people used to buy homes; they were well clothed, managing to send children to school. I think the Government when it comes to diamond mining, the Government should come up with other measures because diamonds should improve the living standards of the people. The diamonds belong to the Zimbabweans but they are only benefitting a few who are influential because the populace is not benefitting.
Madam Speaker, we want a report from the Minister on the issue of diamonds. I think the Chinese who have come to mine diamonds should be arrested and not be allowed to pay bail. What is happening is that bail is being granted to rapists but when we talk of diamonds we are talking of the nation’s wealth and once it is plundered everyone feels the pain. The mining companies should also teach others how to mine especially those in gold mining.
Madam Speaker, there is a problem. The artisanal miners once they mine and take it to Fidelity Printers, it takes three days to pay and they tell you that they do not have money - but the money that comes from the Reserve Bank, the 60% is not there. What they do is that they withhold the person’s gold hoping that that person will come back. So, if I take my gold there and I am told that – not the artisanal miners but I myself, do you think I will go back to the Fidelity Printers to deliver gold, I will not go back, I will go and look for those middlemen who will give me money.
On the money issue, the money that was full in the streets for speculative reasons is what has caused the challenges in this nation. The banks are now in the streets. Even for us who do not stay in Harare, we say it is our money, because it is for us Zimbabwean citizens who do not stay in Harare. We say it is our money because it is for us Zimbabwean citizens. On the issue of Home Affairs, especially the police force in Hurungwe East, we have a challenge. If a child is raped today, the police will only come the following day.
[Time Limit]
HON. NDUNA: I request that the Hon. Members time be extended by 10 minutes.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
HON. MAHOKA: I want to thank Hon. Nduna and Madam Speaker for your understanding. I was on the issue of the Home Affairs department, especially the police. When our children are raped in the rural areas where I come from in Hurungwe East, you only find the policemen coming the next day and evidence will no longer be there because the child would have taken a bath already. So, what we request is that the Government should look into big areas like Hurungwe East where it is only rural and we want them to allocate vehicles to the ZRP. I hope that when the budget is done, they will ensure that vehicles are available to enable the rapists to be brought to book and to enable the police to travel to where the perpetrator is on time and the person can be arrested.
On the issue of education in schools Madam Speaker, we have a challenge in that we are being informed that children can no longer write their Grade 7 examinations in the schools they were learning because they are unregistered. For the school to register there is a big challenge.
We have a lot of schools – Ol Dongo, Mulichi, Mwami, and Zebra Downs just to mention a few. In these schools that I have mentioned, children need to travel 20km to go and write examinations. So what it means is that our Ministers are learned, they have degrees and now they want these children not to be as learned as they are, but we forget these children are the future leaders of tomorrow.
So, they should allow the children to write examinations in a place that is accessible to their homes, either to write in their areas or to encourage schools to register on time and not to expect children to bring their passports and visas and yet the child is from Malawi. So, they should ensure they put conducive procedures for one to register. I have run out of time. I want to thank you Madam Speaker for the time you have given me.
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 17th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI seconded by HON. MUKWANGWARIWA, the House adjourned at One Minute to Four
o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 17th October, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 11th October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A ZIMBABWE PARLIAMENTARIANS ON
HIV AND AIDS (ZIPAH) MEETING
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the Zimbabwe Parliamentarians on HIV and AIDS (ZIPAH) Executive Committee is inviting Members to a meeting on Thursday, 12th October, 2017 at 1200 noon in the Government Caucus Room.
APOLOGIES FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have received apologies
from the following Ministers and Vice Presidents;
Hon. C. Mushowe, Minister of State in the President’s Office,
Responsible for Scholarships; Hon. S Mandiwanzira, Minister of
Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services;
Hon. F. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. Eng. T. Matangaidze, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services; Hon. P. Zhanda, Deputy Minister of Agriculture (Livestock); Hon. Prof. J. Moyo, Minister of Higher and Tertiary
Education; Hon. Major General Retired H. Bonyongwe, Minister of
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs; Hon. Dr. I. M. C. Chombo,
Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. P. A. Chinamasa,
Minister of Cyber, Security, Threat Dictation and Mitigation; Hon. M.
- Bimha, Industry and Commerce; Hon. Kasukuwere, Local
Government, Rural Development and National Housing; Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa, Hon. VP Mphoko, Hon. S. Sekeramayi Defence and Hon. S. K. Moyo, Minister of Information, Media and Broadcasting Services.
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKERS GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the
presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of students and teachers from Kezim College from Harare province. You are most welcome – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Good
afternoon Madam Speaker. First of all, I want to congratulate the new Ministers who have been appointed by His Excellency for he is empowered to do that. I want to also say to the outgoing Ministers, especially Hon. Chinamasa that he was a hard working man, who was very honest….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order,
is that a point of order Hon. Mliswa?
HON. MLISWA: Yes, it is a point of order. I want to pay tribute to Hon. Minister Chinamasa, the way he discharged his duties as a Minister of Finance and Economic Development. The way he conducted himself was something that we never saw of any Minister.
He was here to respond no matter how tough things were, and being the Minister of Finance and Economic Development which is critical in the running of the country, I want to congratulate ….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, that is not a
point of order, you are debating. You cannot just start debating, I think first of all you should notify the Chair.
HON. MLISWA: Okay, can I do that now ….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Not, now, we have got other
things to do, we have Question Time.
HON. GONESE: In terms of Standing Order No. 63, it specifically states that in addition to Standing Order Number 26, a
Minister who is unable to attend the sitting of Parliament under Section 107(2) of the Constitution, shall make an application for leave of absence. I do not believe that we have been complying with the Standing Orders as strictly construed or interpreted, in the sense that my reading of that Standing Order Madam Speaker, predicates that the Ministers must individually make an application in writing. However, what we have been doing falls foul of the Standing Orders in the sense that we are just having a blanket list of applications. This is illustrated by just what happened today whereby on your list, you had the name of the Deputy Minister of Local Government Hon. Christopher Chingosho, who was said to have been one of those members seeking leave of absence when in fact we have him in the Chamber. So, it really casts aspersions on the authenticity of those blanket written statements. I believe that we must strictly comply with the meaning in the letter and the letter in the spirit of the Standing Order in question so that each Hon. Minister who seeks leave of absence makes an individual application in writing. When it says that the Minister shall make an application – my understanding is that it is the Minister himself/herself who has got to make that application for leave of absence as opposed to having just a list being sent to this august House.
I want to take it further Madam Speaker. I think it is also important that when that leave of absence is being sought – I am happy that the new Minister of Foreign knows that he has to attend Parliament unlike the outgoing one. It is a big refreshing difference in terms of approach. Going back to my issue Madam Speaker, I think we must also take it a step further and say that when this leave of absence .. . –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, we are not
supposed to make noise. Order! Can we have order in the House? One other day you may need to also make a point of order and you need to know how it is done.
HON. GONESE: I wanted to say taking it a step further, I think that the intention of the Standing Orders is to have reasons being given and that is the reason why an application is to be made by the individual Minister. As it stands, we have no idea as to where those Hon. Ministers are and I believe that the intention and the letter and spirit of the Standing Order was to enable the Speaker to whom the application is made to be furnished with the details.
HON. SAMUKANGE: On a point of order.
HON. GONESE: No, you cannot make a point of order with another point of order Madam Speaker.
HON. SAMUKANGE: No, no but the rules are here. We cannot keep on being told lies. No, the rules are here and we cannot keep on being told that the rules are saying this.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon Samukange. Hon Gonese, conclude your point of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections] -
HON. GONESE: Yes, Madam Speaker, I was going to conclude but it is unprocedural for senior counsel to stand up – he is a senior lawyer and he should know that …
HON. SAMUKANGE: He is now being personal that I am not allowed to speak because I am senior counsel. Where does it say that as senior counsel I cannot speak? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Samukange, can you
please take your seat. I will give you a chance to speak if you want to do so. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order, order
Hon Members. What is happening, I see Hon Members facing backwards. Hon. Member, I am chairing this House and you have got to face this side.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, I was just about to say that I believe the rules are formulated in such a manner as to enable the Minister to give reasons as to why they are unable to attend Parliament so that the office of the Presiding Officer is furnished accordingly. My concern is also that we are not abiding by the provisions of the Constitution. If you look at Section 90 of the Constitution, it says that the President must not only obey the Constitution but also ensure that the provisions of the Constitution are applied.
I am worried when the Secretary of Administration of a political party convenes a meeting of an organ of that political party whereby Hon. Ministers who are required in terms of Section 107 to be in Parliament, fail to attend Parliament because they may need to attend meetings of an organ of a political party. I do not think we are upholding the provisions of our Constitution. It is a point which we have raised before. I believe that meetings of such a nature must be scheduled on a date when there is no important business for the whole nation of Zimbabwe to be transacted. I believe that the provisions of our Constitution should prevail over any other dictates or other interests people might have.
For this reason, in addition to what I have raised in terms of Standing Order No 63, I also want to say that I think we are not following the provisions of the Constitution. Those are my submissions Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Gonese. Before you speak Hon. Samukange, I have to respond to him. Yes, I have a list which I was given by Administration. The list is based on letters which were submitted by the Ministers. That one for Hon. Chingosho was for yesterday. It is in our office and it is a mistake that it was recorded for today. But all the Ministers sent in their letters of absence to Administration. . – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
Order Hon. Members, we allow Members of Parliament to stand up and put their points of order.
HON. SAMUKANGE: Standing Rules Order No. 63 – I want to read it because I believe some Members do not have the green book. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon Members, order.
HON. SAMUKANGE: This is what it says; Accountability of
Vice Presidents and Ministers. Standing, Order No. 63 says, “in addition to Standing Order No 26, a Minister who is unable to attend the sitting of Parliament under Section 107 (2) of the Constitution, shall make an application for leave of absence in writing” – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Wait Hon. Members, you
should learn to have patience. Hon. Members on my left, you have a problem because as long as it is one of your members you want them to speak I am presiding. Let us hear what he is saying and if he is wrong, it is the duty of the Chair to respond to him.
HON. SAMUKANGE: It says, this is what I want to stress that it says the Minister must make the application in writing to the Speaker. Madam Speaker has confirmed that she has received the application in writing. The point which I want to make which I believe that the Hon. Gonese was misleading the House, is that the rules do not say the Minister must come here and make the application in person, which is what he was trying to insinuate - which is wrong.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Samukange
but I think that I understood what Hon. Gonese was saying. Maybe it is because you did not know that this list – we received the letters and it is in our offices and no one is wrong here. Can we please proceed with Questions without Notice?
HON. THEMBANI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Rural Development and National Housing. When are you going to restore order, especially in the high density suburbs where unregistered shops and containers are being erected and are operating without paying anything either to the Government or to the local authorities? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The Ministry is very much concerned with what is happening on the state of disorder. As result, on Friday there is going to be a meeting where the Minister has called all the local authorities to come so that we address this problem. Thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the Minister is aware that
those people are on the streets because the First Lady ordered them to stay there. So, is the Minister telling me that he is overriding the First Lady in removing them?
HON. CHINGOSHO: I want to thank the Hon. Member for that
question. The answer is that there is no overriding of the order which was given – [HON. MEMBERS: By who?] –
In fact I am saying, in the first place I was not personally aware that there was that order given for people to be in that disorderly arrangement. What I am saying is that, what is illegal is illegal and this is what the Ministry is trying to address.
HON. THEMBANI: Thank you Madam Speaker. This has been
going on for quite some time and we do not want any meetings because the Government is losing as the shops which are supposed to pay tax to local authorities cannot now afford to do so because of these shops which are not in order. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Was it a supplementary
question because I thought it was a comment.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Hon.
Minister of Local Government, Rural Development and National Housing, are you aware of the fact that these local authorities are actually fund raising by collecting a Dollar from each of the vendors who are in the streets? Do you know that there are those who are engaged in fundraising by taking the money and pocketing it and it is not going to Government coffers and it is not earmarked for service delivery?
*HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Hon. Speaker and I want to
thank the Hon. Member. We are aware of that fact as a Ministry and because of that, the Ministry is now drafting a Land Developers’ Bill that will ensure that people are going to be settled legally. This Bill is being brought in order to address such challenges. I thank you.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: The Hon. Deputy Minister acknowledged
that there was an order that was given and that the Ministry is not overriding the order. My understanding of an order is that it comes from an office that is clothed with authority backed by law. Where does the First Lady get authority to give orders about issues of governance in the country?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is that a supplementary question – [HON. MEMBERS: Madam Speaker, you cannot allow the Minister to answer because there was no question. We need to protect our Ministers] –
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question was emanating from the answer that was given by the Hon. Deputy Minister where he acknowledges that there was an order which was given but the Ministry was not overriding the order. Then I indicated that my understanding of an order is that it comes from an office or a person that is clothed with authority and therefore, where does the First Lady draw her authority to give orders on how local authorities are governed?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I rule out that supplementary question – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Yes, because the original – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order Hon. Members. Can we have order? Why are you standing up? Order, can we have order! Hon. Member can you sit down? Order, order Hon. Members. Hon. Member can you sit down? Take your seat please. Order Hon. Members, we have got to learn to listen. We have procedures in this House. The original question had nothing to do with the order which was given by the First Lady, so we cannot come back to discuss that order. We are discussing about councils to do something with cleaning up. So, I think we are not going to discuss about that instruction from the First Lady, no.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Honourable Speaker, with all due respect my supplementary question was based on the answers that were given by the Hon. Deputy Minister emanating from the first supplementary question that came from Hon. Melissa.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I help you Hon.
Member. I heard from the Minister. He did not even want to discuss what was brought in - the instructions from the First Lady. It is the Ministry which is going to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order Hon. Member.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Why do you not allow the Hon Minister to respond?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I do not allow everything
to happen in this House.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, he has got to respond – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Melissa. Why
are you so angry?
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker, my question goes to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, Hon.
Melissa, Hon. Sibanda and Hon. Chimanikire please allow me to hear what the Hon. Member is saying.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, my question goes to Hon. Nyasha Chikwinya. I hope she is paying attention. You are the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development. My question is, can you clearly articulate before this august House your community development policy as you are implementing it in various rural areas or in urban centres. Can you articulate it to this august House so that we clearly understand it? –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIKWINYA): Thank
you very much. The question that has been asked by the Hon. Member is very pertinent. When it comes to policy, I need to be guided by the policy document itself. So, it is not proper for me to articulate policy issues without the document itself. I therefore would prefer that I go back to my boardroom, look at the legislation and whatever is there and bring it to the House. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members can we be
serious please. We are so many in this House. Once you just make some whispers, the whole room is full of noise.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development. Today, 11th October, is the International Day of the Girl Child. My question is, what is it that you are doing as a Ministry to make sure that sanitary wear is available in schools so that girls do not miss lessons? As you know, statistics have shown that girls miss up to about 60 days per year and you also know that education is the biggest vaccination against poverty, so what is your Ministry doing?
At the same time, October is breast cancer awareness month, also known as pink October. What is your Ministry doing in making sure that you intensify awareness programmes on cancer, as we know that early detection of cancer saves lives? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, GENDER AND
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIKWINYA): October
11th is indeed a very important day on our calendar and as a Ministry, we would want the girl child to have a proper place in society. The girl child is my future, my hope and my legacy and without protecting her, we would not have done our duty.
Coming to the issue of sanitary napkins and towels for women, we have two companies that we have approached that are going to give sanitary towels for women for free.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Address the Chair Hon.
Minister.
HON. CHIKWINYA: We have two companies that we have
actually contracted to produce sanitary towels for those young girls she is talking about for free. One of the other companies has said we are unable to do it for free because of budgetary constraints, but we can sell the sanitary towels for 50c down from $1 and we are still looking into that. When that happens I am urging Members of Parliament here, to be part of the programme to ensure you reach out to schools and ensure that this programme takes shape.
Regarding the cancer awareness programme – indeed, this is an issue that we must all look at because young girls, older girls or our grannies are victims. We are working in collaboration with the Ministry of Health so that we up the campaign and ensure that in every sector, be it a church, be it a school, there is awareness about cancer and also breast examinations at all centres. We are also advocating that there be more treatment centres for breast cancer and any other cancer as it were, and we are still negotiating with the Ministry of Health and Child Care.
I thank you.
HON. CHASI: Thank you very much, Hon. Minister. Madam Speaker, I would like to check with the Hon. Minister when this process is likely to commence because this is a long outstanding matter and we have had condoms freely available in toilets for a very long time and women and the girl child have suffered and continue to suffer for a very long time. So, I would be extremely honoured if I got to know when we can expect that these pads be generally available, not only to the girl child, but in rest rooms for women generally because we know that this is a feminine problem. Thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I am sorry that I am unable to give the exact dates of when this will take shape because of the various economic situations companies are currently facing but I am sure that in the next week after having consulted the companies, I will give a definite answer.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order. My point of order is with reference to Standing Order Number 68 (d) with regard to the newly sworn in Hon. Minister Zhuwao. I have a very burning question for the good of this nation. He only came in a minute ago, hardly three minutes in the House he has already left. I think it is something that His Excellency must note the importance of this House and probably for the newly sworn in Ministers to go through a workshop to understand the importance of this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before he went out, he spoke
to the Chair and explained that at the moment he has not yet been briefed about the Ministry. So, he has gone to meet one of his officers so that he gets briefed. I had to allow him to go.
HON. MLISWA: My supplementary question to the Minister is that the issue of the girl-child is critical and cannot be delayed any further. Government has got money to buy condoms which are available for free but sanitary wear is not available for free. Is it because of misplaced priority because condom money is there but sanitary wear money is not there? So, where are the priorities and it cannot be a money situation because vanozvarwa neizvozvo, hapana zvavangaite. Kunyange kumaruzevha kwatiri uku zvinoita kuti self-esteem yemwanasikana idzikire. This is a serious matter that cannot be further delayed. These things must be here like yesterday, not tomorrow.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Madam Chair. I cannot agree with the Hon. Member more. He is very correct. That is why we are making all frantic efforts to make sure that it comes no later than tomorrow. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: My supplementary question is that in her response the Minister indicated that she has sub-contracted two companies to start the production of sanitary towels for free. Could she kindly favour us with the processes that she followed in sub-contracting those companies and their names because they are only two? I am reminded that the same Ministry started hiring people before flighting adverts to the public.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Madam Speaker, the companies came
voluntarily and because of the concern that the member has just alluded to that it is a critical area, these two companies came on their own and are working frantically to make sure that we get this problem out of the way. So, I am not at leisure to disclose who they are. I am sorry – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. One, this is public information. The two companies may have come to her voluntarily but one of the companies as she said, is now requesting for $0,50c per sanitary pad. So, we must know the names – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – This is the same thing she did with the hiring of bank tellers without first advertising. That is corruption – [THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is not corruption.] – This is public information, ndizvo zvamunoita kuZANU.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members. I do not allow that here – [HON. CHIKWINYA: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Minister, do not talk to him, talk to me – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. R. N. S MAWERE: My question is directed to Hon.
Made, the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation
Development –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members sitting
in front. Stop talking to each other plus you are very far from each other and you are making noise. You are very much respected people in this House.
*HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: My question is directed to Hon.
Made. Minister, what is your Ministry’s position concerning people who are in rural areas who are failing to access or get assistance for
Command Agriculture because they are requested to bring slips from GMB, yet we know there has been drought before. Command
Agriculture only started last year. Those in rural areas cannot get those invoices. What is your Ministry doing about it to ensure that these people also get inputs and become part of the Command Agriculture Scheme because it seems like the rural folk are now marginalised. Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION
AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE): Madam
Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The Hon. Member gave me details of where it is happening. So, I am sure we will be able to assist him.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sure you have heard Hon. Member – [HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: Supplementary!] – You cannot stand up on a supplementary question because he said the places where it is happening he would want to know so that he can investigate.
*HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: It is happening in my constituency.
HON. CHIBAYA: I will refer my question to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. Hon. Mguni, people are sleeping in queues waiting for the processing of identity documents and birth certificates. What is your Ministry doing Hon. Minister to speed up the process? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker and thank you Hon. Chibaya. We have assembled a lot of teams. However, we have come across challenges because of these documents that are being given for free. We have gone to other departments to look for officers to reinforce our teams that can be inducted in three days and understand the correct process. Some of the departments are now saying they have run out of staff. However, we have gone to other Ministries that we think can help us, especially Ministry of Youths and the Gender Ministry represented by the Minister here, so that they can help us with more people to create more teams because come 30 November, we foresee us extending that date because if we are moving with those smaller teams, it will take longer. So, we want to meet the deadline and we are expanding our teams. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question to Hon. Mguni is that the issue of identity cards that we are talking about, right now the teams that are giving out identity cards, there is a programme that is going on to register people but there is a challenge in that of the teams that are giving identity cards, there are certain areas that they will get to in November to avail documents, but the registration team from ZEC will have passed that area.
So, that team from ZEC will pass through the 18 and the 22 years to get documents. It is difficult for them to travel from the rural areas to the centre to go and get identity cards. What are you going to do as a Ministry to ensure that there is a programme to ensure that the young are able to get their identity cards when the BVR comes to their area? Once the BVR has passed, are they going to come back again to register those who will not have got their identity cards?
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. Home Affairs have heard that problem and we have said those who are in phase one and phase two of registration will be ahead of the Home Affairs process. We have requested that ZEC and Registry should combine and come up with a resolution on what to do. We realised this problem and we saw that they should combine so that they work this out. I thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. May I seek
clarity from the Hon. Minister since this is a process which is already happening and it is under way. What is it that you are doing as a matter of urgency because you are talking of a thing which is happening right now in Chipinge. What is it you are doing as a matter of urgency Hon. Minister with your joint Ministries to come up with a solution urgently, something that you can put across to the nation? Thank you Madam
Speaker.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. My answer is that we had picked it up that ZEC may be in front of Home Affairs. Therefore, we ordered the Registry and ZEC to talk to each other and come up with a plan whether they are going back to the places where ZEC was in front or Home Affairs will announce another system, but we will come here to announce what they will have agreed.
+HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question goes to the Deputy Minister. We still have a problem that people who are in Bulawayo and want to acquire national identity cards and birth certificates are being referred to Lupane and Harare. Of what help is that when people are not accessing national identity cards and the birth certificates? We are of the view that people should acquire those documents where they are and not to be referred somewhere. What are you going to do about it to rectify that? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. The first thing is that the issuing of national identity cards for free, you cannot do that to an illegal person. It should be given to the bona fide person who is supposed to get that birth certificate for free and not some wrong person. If there are other requirements which are not available, they will then say go back to your original home and come back with the relevant document so that they can issue you a national identity card or birth certificate for free. Bulawayo had a lot of problems and they would conduct me. There are a lot of people who have been helped. I am worried that it is not of help when everybody is saying it is of help. We got a number of people who were helped on a daily basis on different places. What is required is that people should come as bona fide people to get those documents.
HON. NDUNA: Is there a way that the Ministry is going to
decentralise the issuance of citizenship status in terms of its office? What we are seeing is that people are coming from as far as Chegutu and other areas to come to Harare to get citizenship status because they are not being given citizenship status at district and provincial offices. Is there a plan to decentralise in particular, the citizenship status so that the people of Chegutu in particular do not have to move to Harare and Zimbabwe in general?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is not Chegutu only Hon.
Member.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. Although it is not a follow up question, it is a new one. I would like to bring to your attention that when someone is applying for citizenship status, you do not only come to the Registry Department. You need other offices like Immigration and Security which will vet you. You also need Foreign Affairs. So, the only area where it has got those offices at one go is Harare. That is what makes people to come to Harare. It is not about decentralization. I thank you Madam Speaker.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. My question is are people not allowed to conduct kitchen meetings or if you want to have a kitchen meeting you should apply to the police? Last week we tried to conduct kitchen meetings in Nkayi and police came with the teargas and fire arms and chased people from their homesteads where the kitchen meeting was supposed to be held.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. That
one is a particular question. Can you please bring that in written form?
+HON. L. SIBANDA What is Government policy when
conducting kitchen meetings?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, do you have
anything to say in order to help her?
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. According to Section 2.19 of the Constitution, the police have five prerogatives to prevent, detect, protect and to call into order wherever there is disorder and they will use POSA. Therefore, any gathering which has more than 15 people or even five depending on the type of the gathering, the police has to be notified. It
is up to their discretion to see whether they will go and monitor the situation or not. However, I have not seen any report concerning the kitchen meetings but I am aware of the kitchen parties where police always respond where there is noise but they allow them to happen. Unless there is noise within that party, they will start attending to arrest the people who are causing this. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
Hon. Minister, we are talking about private meetings which are held in private homesteads. Are you supposed to notify the police in regards to a meeting which takes place in a private homestead, which is exactly what happened in Siganda? It was a private meeting, there was no noise. There was no disturbance of anything but the police decided to come with teargas and guns to disburse people. Is that Government policy?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before the Minister comes in,
there is vehicle number ADI 9333, white Ford Ranger blocking other vehicles. Another vehicle number ADF 7031, silver Land Cruiser is also blocking other vehicles. Can you please go and rectify that.
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. One thing about
private meetings, that is why I would like an example of such incident being reported to us. This is because I now have the assumption and perception that a private meeting could involve only family members. Once it involves the neighbours, some people will alert the police. Can we have a report specifically for that private meeting? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is why I had advised the
Hon. Member who brought in this question that he should put it in writing, include the particular dates and place so that the Minister looks into it and you will have a full answer.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
The question to the Minister is very clear. When we say kitchen meeting, it is a holistic way of saying a gathering in a private home. However, my supplementary question is, how does the POSA come in at a private property? Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think we go back to the
same question that the Minister now wants to know where this happened. I think you can bring this question in writing.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much. I hear you very well. When the Hon. Member raised the question –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Hon.
Mashayamombe please, “ndirikukunzwai” from this Chair.
HON. D. SIBANDA: When the Hon. Member raised the question, she clearly stated that it was in Siganda in Tsholotsho. Madam
Speaker, for your information, these meetings have always been there. Whether it is a church meeting or family gathering, it is a kitchen meeting. We are not talking about kitchen parties. My supplementary question is, how does POSA come in then at a private gathering?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. What is encompassed by POSA is protection of life and property. The people who are walking to that private area, if they are detected by other people and exchange wrong words among themselves, the other people have the right to report to the police. So, police will come and protect, whether they are going to a private area or wherever. That is what POSA means.
Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Rural Development and National Housing. What is the Ministry doing to assist local authorities in avoiding flooding like what happened last year due to poor drainage in most towns and cities? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the
Member for the question. The Ministry, through its Department of Civil Protection is coming in to assist local authorities to try and help them solve the problem of drainage. I would like to also say that local authorities have got financial problems. It is not that they are just letting all these things go like that. Due to lack of finance, they have not been able to address this problem quickly. This is the reason why the Ministry is coming in with the Department of Civil Protection. Thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: Hon. Deputy Minister, you said local
authorities have problems of finance to clear the drains. It is provided for in the Constitution that 5% of the National Budget should be channeled towards local authorities. What is your Ministry doing to make sure that local authorities are given their 5% to alleviate the problem of finance so that they will be able to clear the drains?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am afraid your
supplementary question can divert the first question. He said the Ministry is coming in to help local authorities with the issue of drainage.
This is where the Ministry is coming in.
HON. MAONDERA: Madam Speaker, he said the local
authorities have financial problems. I am saying, it is provided for in the Constitution that 5% from the National Budget should go towards local authorities. What is his Ministry doing to make sure that they get the 5%?
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like
to thank the Hon. Member. Although it is provided for that the local authorities will get 5% of the National Budget, they have not been getting that because of lack of finance, which I have already pointed out.
Thank you.
HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Deputy Minister has talked about the Civil Protection Unit. Has the Ministry given funding to this department because the department has no money as far as we know?
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like
to thank Hon. Phiri for the question. My answer is, yes, of late, the department has been given money. We have received one million from China and one million from the UN. The money is not enough but this is what we have received so far.
HON. GONESE: I have a supplementary question. In response to an earlier question about what his Ministry is doing to ensure that local authorities get the 5% as stipulated in Section 301 of our Constitution, the Hon. Deputy gave the impression that the reason is because of lack of resources. I want to find out from the Hon. Minister what they are doing to ensure that the provisions of Section 301 are fulfilled which specifically provides that on Act of Parliament must provide for the equitable allocation of capital grants between provincial and metropolitan councils. What has his Ministry done to ensure that this Act of Parliament is brought before us so that the necessary legislation can be enacted and local authorities, provincial and metropolitan councils when they are established can then get this funding from the fiscus in terms of the provisions of the Constitution?
HON. CHINGOSHO: The Ministry is in the process of trying to bring this Act before the House so that there could be that provision for the benefit of all the local authorities.
HON. GONESE: When His Excellency came before Parliament,
that Bill was not among those Bills which His Excellency indicated to be brought before this august House. I would like to know when that is going to happen because this is the last session of the Eighth Parliament.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you asking when the Bill
is coming in?
HON. GONESE: Yes.
HON. CHINGOSHO: The Ministry is going to make sure and is working very hard to make sure that all the outstanding Bills including that one, are brought before this House before the end of this Session.
HON. MANGAMI: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. What is the Government policy regarding compensation when an accident has been caused by stray animals? What is the role of the owner of the animal in that? When are we going to see other roads being protected through fencing like what is happening in Bulawayo?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): The policy says, in the first instance, all roads must have a perimeter fence to prevent wild animals from getting on to the roads. But if we look back, we will see that most of this fence was vandalized sometime around the year 2000. Right now, animals are getting onto the roads and they are causing accidents. In such a case, the owner of the animal is supposed to compensate for the damage caused when that animal collides with a vehicle.
However, as the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, we are working flat out to ensure that all our roads have a perimeter fence to prevent such accidents because they are preventable. As you can see, along the Plumtree-Harare-Mutare road, we have already fenced some sections although we have got some problems of funding. The Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe is actually fencing some of these roads and it is our intention as a Ministry to fence all roads so that we avoid collision between vehicles and animals. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: What the Minister has indicated is about communal areas. In commercial farming areas, whose responsibility is it to fence the perimeters of the road?
HON. ENG. MADANHA: In commercial areas, the commercial farmer is supposed to fence his farmland to prevent his animals from straying onto the road. That is why we give him responsibility to compensate for any damage caused due to collision between his animals and any vehicle that might be transiting. I thank you.
HON. J. TSHUMA: My supplementary question is, does the
Ministry have any policy on a punitive sort of measure, for example the Bulawayo-Harare road, the Ministry put a very good fence but right now you find animals on the road. It looks like somebody is opening for these animals to get onto the road. Is there any policy whereby there is a definite punishment that these people are going to get besides compensation? Do we have a law which will charge these people to make this issue a criminal issue because we are talking of life and death here?
HON. ENG. MADANHA: It is a crime to cut off a perimeter fence. Yes, I agree that sometimes you find animals on the road. This is due to some vandalism but if you look at how we implement this perimeter fencing, we involved the local leadership who are supposed to take care. Right now, what we are doing is that local leadership, that is the chief and headmen oversee certain sections of the road and also do some sensitisation to their local people that they are supposed to take care of the perimeter fence. If anybody is caught vandalising, it is a crime and is punishable by law.
HON. NDUNA: The issue of road side fencing is very key. Your Committee got to have the Minister have this windfall that is being utilised for this road-side fencing. That as it may be, one would want to know when the Ministry is going to put a grid on the gates that are attributed to the road side fencing to stop the animals from going through those gates if the gates are opened using the same money.
How much is the Ministry pushing the insurances to pay for those who would have been engaged in road carnage due to the stray animals on the roads.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ENG.
MADANHA): Yes, the construction of grids on some sections like when coming from a commercial farming area into a rural area is supposed to be an operation which is done whenever you are constructing a road. Some of these grids have broken up and we are going to repair all those grids so that we prevent animals moving from commercial areas to the rural areas. In terms of compensation through the Traffic Safety Council, we are actually sensitising them to compensate some of these accidents. But all depends on whether such animals are insured, because most of them are not and this is a problem which needs to be rectified. As time goes on we are going to ensure that such accidents are actually compensated for damage caused. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: I think there was a misconception on the insurance part. There is third party insurance and passenger insurance which is supposed to optimally and effectively compensate those that would have been involved in road carnage whether due to stray animals or automobile. How far is the Ministry enforcing compliance in particular on insurance companies to compensate those that would have been involved in road carnage, whether third party or passenger insurance?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Just a point of order Madam Speaker.
My question is to do with curtailing and cutting out the answers that are supposed to be given because the Minister made a commitment to Parliament that there was going to be a Ministerial Statement on road accidents mitigation programmes, especially after the King Lion accident. Is it not possible - because some of the issues that Hon. Nduna has raised are also part of that comprehensive paper which has not come to Parliament? When is the Minister going to bring that? We are very diligent as Hon. Members on the things that are given to us as a commitment by Ministers. When are you able to bring that paper because that paper will answer all the issues that we are raising around insurance schemes and protection of our passengers in circumstances of accidents?
HON. ENG. MADANHA: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank
Hon. Chamisa for his question. Definitely the Ministry is still working on it because this thing is done by a lot of Ministries who are involved in this. So, I know we are working on a press statement and once it is ready it will be released.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Thank you Madam Speaker, First and
foremost I would like to congratulate Hon. Mzembi on his new appointment as Foreign Affairs Minister. I also want to thank him for the sterling job that he did which led to the President’s removal of spikes from the roads when he was heading the Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Industry. My question is that our country is seen as having conducted controversial elections and that has affected our relations with other countries. It is being mentioned in different parts of the world and even in the SADC region and we are about to go into the 2018 harmonised general elections. We are now doing voter registration and already, there are disagreements which have a bearing on the outcome of these polls. I would want to find out as the new Minister of Foreign
Affairs – the English say a new broom sweeps better –
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please ask your
question?
HON. ZWIZWAI: The question - thank you for bringing me on track Madam Speaker. My question is as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs what plans do you have to ensure that our country holds credible elections that will lead to no contestations and living harmoniously after the poll results have been declared.
*THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON. ENG. DR.
MZEMBI): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question regarding what plans are going to be afoot to ensure that
Zimbabwe’s name remains credible in the political arena as regards elections. I want to tell Hon. Zwizwai that the ruling party, after it was elected, the first branch to congratulate Government for holding such a poll was the United Nations. This happened in Victoria Falls when we had the United Nations World Tourism Organisation. If he recalls what happened then, I was the Minister who was receiving other dignitaries that had come together with His Excellency the President.
Among those to first congratulate Zimbabwe was the then Secretary General of United Nations Ba-Ki-Moon, followed by another visitor who was the Secretary General of the UNWTO and the 121 countries. We were all happy when we left that place because Government elections had been endorsed by such a body. I would want to move forward and say that we will even do better than what we did before in conducting these polls so that we continuously remain being accredited with holding credible elections. Hon Zwizwai and all Hon. Members know that this position was given to a credible person. I thank you.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: I would want to thank the credible person who differs from the previous one who was not -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There you go Hon Member.
Mind you it is a supplementary question and it should be shorter than the first one.
HON. ZWIZWAI: I am sorry Madam Speaker, I withdraw the statement, please forgive me. My supplementary question is that, I was watching on television when Zimbabwe was congratulated by Mr. Ban Ki-moon and everyone. It was for your being chosen to host the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) in Victoria Falls.
I am talking about the harmonised general elections and not the soft boardroom politics that you had. I am talking about the no go areas such as the farms so that people can go and be able to campaign properly so that we have a proper election and we have reports from the Africa Union and other bodies.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your question has been
understood Hon. Zwizwai, that what are you going to do to ensure that other countries come and observe our elections.
*THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS (HON. ENG. DR.
MZEMBI): Madam Speaker, the portfolio that I hold - the key principle is engagement and communication between parties and should there be any differences, my duty is to reconcile the two warring parties so that they can talk using diplomacy. I would want to inform Hon. Zwizwai that I am a person who can give you my personal experience that I am a victim of a stolen election. The same organisation that you would want to come and observe the elections stole an election from me.
We should find one another and sit face to face.
Madam Speaker, I was in China and I would want to give
Parliament a brief history. I went to China for the confirmation of the Secretly General of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation and when the confirmation was done – Hon. Chamisa and others please listen, I beg you my dear brothers. Where there was supposed to be confirmation by secret ballot of the two-thirds of the sitting General Assembly, there were 137 countries. If we required a two-thirds confirmation, 92 would have been required.
I would want this august House to listen on this issue. We had two days and they were refusing confirmation by secret ballots and we eventually reached a consensus and in Zimbabwe we gave them a lecture on democracy on how elections are run. They agreed that we are capable of running lections. Inside this august House we have experts who can run these elections. That is why we came up with a very good Constitution and 98% of the Zimbabwean people agreed that we should deal with our own issues and we will be able to go further. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. MLISWA: I am requesting that time for Questions
Without Notice be extended.
HON. MUFUNGA: I object.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
Question No. 1 having been deferred.
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker, I cannot help but raise a very strenuous point of privilege. This question has been on the Order Paper for more than half of this year. I am getting the sense that the Hon.
Ministers are deliberately violating their responsibility in terms of
Section 107 of the Constitution. The Executive is making fun of Section 107 of the Constitution which gives Ministers an obligation to come and answer questions that they have collective responsibility for.
This question of mine has been on the Order Paper for nearly nine months now. Initially I posed it to the Minister of Home affairs who decided to be clever and avoid the question and said that it should be posed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. It is only last week that the Hon. Minister then, the former Minister and the Deputy were in the House – they gave a very flimsy and very pathetic excuse, with respect Madam Speaker. They claimed that they were not in a position to answer the question but this question is a question on notice Madam Speaker.
They were aware of the question and last week the two of them promised that they were going to answer this question today.
Unfortunately, the former Minister is no longer a Minister but there is a Minister in the Ministry. From what I understand, there should have been an answer that is ready and the Deputy Minister is available and they are not here again. This is a matter of critical national importance as to why the Registrar General continues to be in office when he looks like he is over the age of 65. I have no choice but to suspect that they are trying to protect him, but surely they cannot continue running away from a question. The reason why this question is No. 1 on the Order
Paper is because last week Hon. Speaker you undertook that it would be No. 1. It is No. 1 but neither the Minister nor the Deputy is here. Can they not just read the answer that was prepared for them?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I hear you and
I think that since there were recent changes, Minister Zhuwao asked to go out so that he meets with those officers who are going to brief him. Also, the Deputy Minister was one of those who were on the list that they were seeking an apology. So, I think that you have to be patient enough so that this question continues to be on the Order Paper so that we have the answer, if I may appeal to you.
HON. MAJOME: Can the question be No. 1 again.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the administration is
listening.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, is it possible that in future, when there is a reshuffle, there should be taken into consideration the work that the Ministers do in this august House because we were seeing that most of the Ministers, are not being professional. We are not seeing that being taken into consideration when Cabinet is being chosen.
I request that the current Ministers that we see who do not constantly come to Parliament, when a Cabinet reshuffle is being done, we should, as Parliament, be able to advance that certain individuals should not be entitled to be Ministers, especially with regards to Questions With Notice. May you commit to this as Parliament, that we put it in writing to His Excellency the President so that this issue can be looked into when he is doing a Cabinet reshuffle so that we have a crop of Ministers that work very well.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I recall that you are also a Member of the Standing Rules and Orders. You can take it to the Standing Rules and Orders so that issues can be dealt with.
I thank you. On question number 2. Hon. Gezi is no longer in the House. The Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development is also not in the House.
*HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, Parliament is an august House. It is a respectable House and it should be seen to be doing its work. This is our final session. The Ministers and the Members of Parliament are not here. Members who come here on proportional representation such as Hon. Gezi, they are coming here, what are they doing? What are the 70 women coming to do here? It is actually being a burden on the finance. Where are they? Who is she representing?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I rule you
out of order. I do so because it is not only Hon. Gezi who is not here because of the questions that are here. He is saying there are too many women and you are not doing any justice to your increased numbers.
*HON. MLISWA: My point is that Parliament is already too bloated and the Minister once said. There is the question of the women Ministers. I have come with women representatives and I am saying they represent the women. Where is she? This Barcosi for Hon.
Members is not good. We are sick and tired of this – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, if
there is a point of order raised by one member, you should wait up until the Chair makes a ruling before coming with a different point of order. You are talking about proportional representation for women because they have failed to come to Parliament. I have seen a lot of Hon.
Members who are men and women who fail to come here and ask their questions, so I could not entertain you on that one.
HON. MLISWA: I withdraw my statement. I apologise.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: And the Chair is a woman
too. Alright, I accept that apology.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Hon.
Madam Speaker, my point of order is a point of order as a female Member of Parliament and I do accept that you made your ruling, but I believe that Hon. Members of Parliament must be reminded to have respect for women. Female MPs are equal citizens and that in particular the whole Senate is full of Members of Parliament of proportional representation. Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: So how are we supposed to
hear each other?
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Madam Speaker, I think Hon. Members who use derogatory language against women in this Parliament are prohibited in terms of the Standing Rules and Orders and must be disciplined. The Senate is a whole House of this Parliament that is full of proportional representation MPs, but only because some of the proportional representation Members of Parliament are men, some Members of Parliament who make fun of female Members of Parliament do not make fun of Senators.
Hon. Madam Speaker, I think this Parliament should take a stand and show respect for female Members of Parliament. They are the best behaved and they are the ones that usually sit in here and maintain quorum when everybody has gone out. They do not make as much noise, they do not heckle and they are only there for proportional representation because the men refuse to vacate the 105 seats. If male Members of Parliament want females to be lesser members, they must remove those who are occupying more than 50% of seats so that there are 105 and 105.
FISHING BY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN KARIBA TOWN
- HON. MACKENZIE asked the Minister of Environment,
Water and Climate to explain why the Parks and Wildlife management Authority prohibits the movement of indigenous people in Kariba Town and not to fish using lines in the leisure bay whilst allowing white people in their small fishing boats to fish and move freely in the leisure bay –
[AN HON. MEMBER: He is not here.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why do you answer for the
Minister while he is there? What is wrong with you people?
Hon. Minister, I thought environment is part of your portfolio?
THE MINISTER OF TOURISM, ENVIRONMENT, AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. MBWEMBWE): Thank you
very much Madam Speaker. Yes, it is under my portfolio. Can I defer the question to next week?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, I rise again because if you have regard to all the questions that are on the Order Paper, you will realise that the Ministers are not around, but then this speaks to the delinquency of Hon. Ministers, Madam Speaker. I think this is now a very important stage wherein we are called upon as Parliament to start charging Hon. Ministers because we have spoken, talked and done everything that is possible in terms of trying to exercise our oversight function. It is clear that our Ministers - why do we not take down the names of all the Ministers who are not here because it is consistent with our Constitution and the Standing Rules and Orders so that we deal with those Ministers. We have the power.
I am in the SROC as you said Hon. Speaker and I am going to move a motion that for the first time, we must have Ministers. We must start coding them and making sure that we actually take a record of the Ministers who have consistently been truant and who are consistently bunking Parliament. We cannot continue. Look at the benches. They know that today they are supposed to be responding, granted some are in the Politburo but most of those who are not in the Politburo are actually not here. Some have just disappeared because they do not take this
Parliament seriously.
Now, if we are to be taken seriously as Parliament, we also have to have serious measures against Ministers. Hon. Speaker, I do not know what we are going to do but I am recommending that we must take down the names of the Ministers who have become a problem in this
Parliament. Those Ministers who have not responded to questions, let us write to them and charge them and if they have issues to explain, they must come and explain like what my Hon. Minister has done. To say, look I am here I do not have a response because I am new, which is fair.
You cannot just say you do not come here.
Hon. Mbwembwe came here to try and explain, which is okay but for those who are not here, they are not here because they think that we are absent in our minds. We are absent in terms of our risk exercise of oversight function. Let us bite those who are causing problems. We have barked enough. Let us bite for once as Parliament because we have teeth to bite Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Adv. Chamisa, I do
support what you are saying but for today only and because of these changes, I think you can bear with us or the Ministers. Some are saying they have not yet been briefed about the mandate of their portfolios. So please, I will support you even in the SROC but thereafter, I think we have to be tough. Thank you very much.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI seconded by HON. MUKWANGWARIWA, the House adjourned at Nine Minutes past
Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday 11th October, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
INVITATION TO A ZIPAH MEETING
THE ACTING PRESIDEN OF THE SENATE (HON SEN.
TAVENGWA): I wish to inform the Senate that the Zimbabwe
Parliamentarians on HIV and AIDs (ZIPAH) Executive is inviting all ZIPAH members to a ZIPAH meeting on Thursday, 12th October, 2017 at 1200 hours in the Government Caucus Room.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MUGABE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on the Presidential speech. The motion was raised by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane. Mr. President, I am very grateful for the speech delivered by the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe who is also the Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces. He noted that in the promulgation of the law, particularly in the alignment of laws – he encouraged the august House that the 30 pieces of legislation which have to be aligned should be scrutinised intently so that they are aligned in the correct manner.
When he was delivering his speech, I was very much touched when he talked about the climate change. I think His Excellency had a question regarding climate change especially being foresighted that if we do not have any rains in future or if we have excessive rains what will happen. At times we could have severe colds, freezing temperatures, how will we survive. When we talk of climate change, this is something for real and it is really happening. We have heard of people talking about climate change but some of us take it as rhetoric and yet we can see the blowing of winds. At times the weather patterns have changed in such a manner that either the rains are delayed or come sooner than they are expected. We have had instances of flooding. As stated before we have had the change of climate.
Climate change works hand-in-hand with the performances of different ministries which are supposed to take corrective measures to stand the changes in the weather patterns. We also notice that the lives of the people and animals, all the flora and fauna will have been changed. At times we find even the harvest is affected and we have a poor harvest. The health systems are also disturbed. We may have diseases such as cholera and typhoid which are induced by this climate change. We have people with albinism; they are disturbed by this climate change and these ultraviolet rays.
His Excellency foresaw all this happening in the country, hence he introduced this in House so that we may take corrective measures. I will take the example of Kariba Dam. I am using it as an example because it was given as an example in the report by the Catholic Relief Services. In their report, they are saying we all know that Lake Kariba is one of the biggest manmade lakes in the world. The length of this dam is 140 miles; maybe you will have to convert to kilometres, the width is 20 miles and the depth is 320 feet which may have to be changed to metres in order to understand it. We have since noticed that Lake Kariba was once drying up, there was a time during these dry periods that this dam was running dry and there was shortage of water. This dam was constructed in the 1950s and it straddles the Zambezi River. This dam has been used for periods exceeding 50 years in agricultural purposed such as irrigation and fishing. We also know that we get our electricity from the dam. Not only does it benefit Zimbabwe but other countries which are along the Zambezi River such as Mozambique, Zambia and other countries in southern Africa. There is reduction of water and the rains which is caused by the drought. The reduction is also caused by such climate changes as the Elninos. What this means is, water animals which live in the water will have survival problems because the dam will have dried up. These include the Hippopotamus, crocodiles and even the elephants as they do not have enough water to swim and also the mermaids are also affected by the lack of water. This means that our country will be losing out on its economic empowerment because we also benefit from tourism but if some of these sources which are tourist attractions are drying up that means the tourism financial resource also dries up.
Somebody said no good living, no life. This is a very important quotation. They have even given that as an example. I know it is terrifying and it may send shivers down under other people’s spines. Therefore we need to work hard supporting this disaster risk management belt. We have to make a thorough research so that we make meaningful contribution in this august House.
At times, we rely on the weather forecasters but it is not enough to say they have told us that there are going to be floods and we say that we are going to take the necessary steps. Just like what happened in the days of Noah, people were warned that there were going to be floods but people just said Noah was mad and they suffered at the end. We need to be very careful in the conservation and preservation of our flora and fauna and natural resources. That is why the President emphasised on this point. We are also responsible for the destruction of the environment, which causes climate change.
We have people who are building on the wet land and use pole and dagger. Some of these structures quickly crumble because of the weather changes. When we are aware of these problems and when we are making alignment of the laws, we also make laws which are pertinent to the construction of buildings which will suit the changing weather patterns. We also need to make strategies which will correct all the problems which may be brought by this climate change.
If we would observe, we notice that in the last farming season, the
President introduced the Command Agriculture and this has borne fruit.
It also works hand-in-hand in alleviating the climatic changes in the country. When you look at the Command Agriculture, we are now concentrating on water harvesting, construction of dams and irrigation and because of that, Zimbabwe no longer imports food but is now one of the exporters. We are no longer importing food and we are also earning foreign currency for the country and embarking on a job creation exercise in order to alleviate unemployment rates which leads to the growth of the Zimbabwean economy.
Mr. President Sir, when we talk of agriculture, especially when people wait for the rainy season, this is what we call gambling in farming because you never know whether there will be sufficient rains. So, we want to concentrate on constructing irrigation schemes. This is not a source of prestige and showing off but a project that needs to be taken seriously. People should be educated and enlightened on the use and construction of these irrigation schemes.
I present another example of the tobacco crop. In order for tobacco to be cured, we need to use either charcoal or coal hence when we look at the end result of using flames; we have fumes that go up into the sky. We need to have mechanisms in place which lead to the reduction of atmospheric pollution and the depletion of the ozone layer because the sun may disturb the progress and development.
Mr. President Sir, the research by the World Bank revealed that the climatic changes we are experiencing when we get to 2050, there will be very little rain. Rivers may dry up or may have little water, even the underground water will be scarce. When I look at His Excellency the
President’s speech, I see a visionary and focused man who gave the nation a chance to prepare for adverse effects of climatic change.
The President of the United States of America, Mr. Donald Trump, refused to be a signatory to the Paris Agreement which talks about climate change, yet the United States of America is on the front in terms of to air pollution because of its many industries. One would have thought that they would be the first ones to support this Paris Agreement. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MATIRIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution to the President’s Speech that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira and seconded by Hon Sen. Chief Mtshane Khumalo. It was a pleasant and constructive speech which was delivered at the occasion of the Fifth Session of the Eighth
Parliament of Zimbabwe aimed at developing our country, Zimbabwe.
The President’s speech dwelt on a lot of issues that are of benefit to the people. We know that as the leaders, we benefited a lot from the speech. The President spoke about agriculture and we are all aware that Zimbabwe industries are agro-based. When we look at Command
Agriculture, a lot of things will be happening and this is very essential for us. Now, the country has a lot of food since we had a bumper harvest. We need to see such developments being embraced in the provinces in order to boost our agriculture. We have some areas that are located in the dry lands which did not receive sufficient rains. We wish if more dams could be constructed in those areas so that irrigation projects are undertaken. When we look at the amount of agriculture that was done by people especially those who joined the Command
Agriculture, they worked so hard and led to the prosperity and progress of Command Agriculture. We are proud that Zimbabwe is now self sufficient in food production. The Government is now in a position to look at other facets of development in the country because we have sufficient food provisions.
I will add a word or two on climate change. Mr. President, I would like to encourage rural dwellers to conduct awareness campaigns because some of them are told of climatic change but it has no meaning to them since they cannot conceptualize what it means. We should hold road shows to educate people in the rural areas on the effects of climate change, hence we are in full support of the President’s Speech.
He also introduced two very important Bills to this august House and encouraged us to work hard. The President call for Hon. Members of Parliament to work hard means that we should make thorough research on issues relating to climate change so that we make meaningful contributions in our debates. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. JADAGU: I will start by thanking Hon. Sen. Chief
Charumbira for tabling this motion and his seconder Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane. This shows that these two chiefs are visionaries. This is going to be my contribution. The President touched on a lot of issues which had to be debated and as a result I have some few issues which I would like to contribute to in this House so that whenever we need to promulgate some legislation we do that. The President talked about early child marriages and some of these can be equated to raping these youngsters and we also notice that some women are raped and at times some people also molest some of these men. This august House should work hard in supporting the speech raised by His Excellency because we need to talk about these issues.
I will talk about rape cases. I have a feeling that the traditional leaders should have their powers bestowed upon them because we now have a change in behaviour which is contrary to our African culture. The changes which have come about are that you find a young lady kissing his father as a way of exchanging greetings. Yes, we know it may be good when a father kisses his daughter because they gave birth to that child but what we are saying is that if this child is matured she is a woman and she has some parts of her body which are not supposed to come into contact with her father, brother, or other elderly people. When they are kissing, they hug and these parts do come into contact. This is taboo. We may be following the Eurocentric values but I say this is taboo.
When we are talking of mother; m.o.t.h.e.r – in some other languages we say mother, mummy or mai and in lingua franca it is moms. Just as well when we talk of the father or when we look at you father, the President of the Senate, baba is spelt as b.a.b.a. Even in Ndebele it is also b.a.b.a. I am still talking about the rape cases perpetrated on the females. What is of great shame is these fathers who rape their daughters. Unashamedly, we also have some elderly women who are indulging in sexual intercourse with their sons and then you start wondering is it because we are saying daddy, daddy, or mummy, mummy. That is why I am calling for the bestowing of the powers on the traditional leaders, especially the elderly and grandmothers. We need to preserve our culture.
I am married to a Korekore man and they do not believe in the hugging, kissing, or shaking hands of a young lady with men. When they exchange their greetings the women should be at some distance. What is of concern is that we are now losing our culture. We are no longer following our culture.
Let me give an example of Hon. Sen. Mumvuri who is my relative. I have noticed that we have people who will hug like I may hug Hon. Sen. Mumvuri in such a way that some of his private parts are aroused. That loses the respect that is between me and him and our culture is lost because the private parts have touched. This normally happens when people exchange greetings and this is taboo.
I also wanted to say to all these fathers – especially those who are in this august House, starting from the President of the Senate, I experienced these things especially when I am travelling to Chitungwiza when we finish very late. What happens in the streets is that we see some of these people who are very naked. They open up and expose themselves to motorists who are passing by. To tell you the truth they will be scantily dressed and the whole body will be in the open for the passersby to see. Even the breasts are not decently covered but all they are contented with is covering the nipples and all the other parts of the body will be exposed. What a shame! One of the ladies of the night came to my driver and asked him how much he could pay for a one night stand. I asked my driver whether he knew this woman and he said mama, these are what are called sex workers. We believe that people should be properly dressed.
In the past culture was passed from generation to generation through aunts, uncles, mothers and fathers. Nowadays, we have ladies who are moving scantily dressed, it is a shame and they are moving out in the open. As people of Zimbabwe we see these people and what are we going to say. Is it not one of the ways which contributes to rape? We need to promulgate some laws and align them to the culture of the country so that our children, especially ladies may be well behaved because this is very shocking. My request is that we need to go back and look for ways of dealing with these commercial sex workers.
Last week I took my husband to West End Hospital and he needed some time off to use the restrooms. I asked my driver to accompany my husband to the restrooms. When they came back, my husband said Mai Patty, while I had gone to the restrooms, I saw four ladies who were stark naked and dancing. There was not a single thing covering their bodies. There were some men who were clapping hands in approval and encouraging these ladies to go and have sex. When a man wants one of these girls, they will simply take them out for a quick time. As Members of Parliament, please let us promulgate some laws which may lead to the upholding of our culture because we have a lot of rape cases which are going on.
What is really astonishing is that we also have same sex relationships and we are women and men. We are saying, we need to come up with some measures and ways of protecting the people from these rape cases.
I thank you for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th October, 2017.
MOTION
CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS AND
IMPLEMENTATION REGISTER
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on the Code of Conduct and
Ethics.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, having tabled this motion in this House and having had a well-elaborated document circulated to the Hon. Senators, I would like to thank the seconder of the motion, Hon. Sen. Mohadi who debated this motion. Mr. President, I believe that although the Code of Conduct and Ethics was overdue, I believe that Hon. Members who went through the document would agree that Members and Officers of Parliament are now on the right path because in any institution, there is a code of conduct, documented or undocumented and that has been missing for quite some time.
Having said that Mr. President, I move the motion;
That this House:
RECOGNIZING that in 1999, Parliament adopted the final report of the Parliamentary Reform Committee (PRC); and one of the recommendations contained in the report was that of establishing a Code of Conduct, Ethics, and Implementation Register for Members of
Parliament;
ACKNOWLEDGING that the Constitution of Zimbabwe, in section 198 provides for the enactment of an Act of Parliament, which must provide measures to enforce the provisions of principles of public administration and leadership, including measures to:-
- require public officers to make regular disclosures of their assets;
- establish codes of conduct to be observed by public officers; and
- Provide for the disciplining of persons who contravene the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Constitution or any code of conduct or standard so established;
NOTING that the recommendation by the PRC and the requirement by the Constitution culminated in Standing Order No. 48 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the Senate;
COGNISANT of the approval of the Code of Conduct and Ethics and Implementation Register by the Committee on Standing Rules and
Orders on 21st of April, 2016;
NOW THEREFORE, resolves that the Code of Conduct and Ethics and the Implementation Register be adopted Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON PEACE
AND SECURITY ON THE PREPAREDNESS OF THE GRAIN
MARKETING BOARD TO HANDLE THE 2016/2017 CROP DELIVERIES AND THE SUCCESS OF THE COMMAND
AGRICULTURE PROGRAMME
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security on the Preparedness of the Grain Marketing Board to handle the 2016/2017 Crop Deliveries and the Success of the Command Agriculture Programme.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Mr. President, I thank you for the opportunity to add on to the debate that has already taken place on this subject. First of all, I want to thank the Committee, specifically the Chairperson who presented on behalf of the Committee, the findings of that Committee. Thank you very much to all of you Hon. Senators – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Mr. President, the report is in two parts, the one that deals with the preparedness of the Grain Marketing Board, (GMB), which I think has been qualified that it has not adequately prepared. I am not surprised that the GMB would not be prepared. The GMB has had a history that is not very admirable, some of it their own making and part of it our own making as a nation, where the GMB has been underfunded. Why would a parastatal continue to be underfunded? I cannot answer because I think parastatals should be selfsufficient.
I also believe that the announcement to pursue Command
Agriculture was made around July/August, last year. Effectively, that gave the GMB and the Government about 9 to 10 months before the reaping period, least of all; I am not even talking about the delivery period. If an organisation cannot put itself in a position where it is able to run an efficient system with nine months prior notification, I am greatly concerned about its ability to exist and be functional. It is my hope that in future, when the Government announces a programme, not only to the GMB, but to any arms of Government, particularly parastatals which are directly accountable to Government, there will be responsive activities by the organisations concerned. In that vein, I urge the GMB to be prepared to handle any volume of agricultural business that pertains to it.
Mr. President, I then move to Command Agriculture. If you look at it at face value, the maize is there, we see it, the deliveries have taken place and the stock piles are visible. On the visibility side, I am happy that the nation will not starve. However, I also have some reservations.
I for one am averse to ‘command systems,’ their history is replete with instances of failure. We know the political systems that were based on command, hardly any of them exist today because the sustainability level is low.
Mr. President, I therefore have a reservation about any business system that is based on ‘command’ for the following reasons;
- They lack sustainability, it is a proven historical fact;
- they lack longevity, it is also a proven historical fact;
- they tend to be opaque;
- prone to corruption and that is also a proven fact and
- they tend to accelerate the growth of the have’s and do not promote the growth and development of the have nots
I look at farming as a business and in normal circumstances, should drive its operations. I am worried that farmers who either bought land or qualified for land allocation on the basis of having the means to do that have suddenly got to be assisted to carry out farming. Mr.
President, the next thing that worries me is the price that we are paying. We are paying a basic price of US$390, that is the extent to which our farmers need to be motivated as against an international price of between
US$180 to about US$220 per tonne. That is a huge disinvestment by a Government.
Secondly Mr. President, I believe that if we had thought properly about agriculture, if we had organised our agriculture properly, we would not have had to involve ourselves with Command Agriculture. The price we pay for maize is approximately around 100 percent above the international price. If you take that price of $390 and factor in the cost of deliveries, factor in the cost of demurrage, which is storage and factor in the cost of the employees that run the GMB, I confirmed today that our carrying cost is anything between $430 and $450 a tonne. I am arguing that it is unsustainable. That is one side.
Secondly, my personal view, I believe the price we are paying is inflational. We did a costing today with somebody who indicated to me that it would cost about $600 thousand to do a 100 ha of crop. The realisation from that 100ha is about $1.8 million. You take out the $600 thousand and your net profit is around $1.2 million. That is possibly the best business in the world. My argument is that I am surprised that this whole House can debate that issue without raising the economic dimension of the implications of our activities. I am seriously concerned. As I went through this, I have been postponing my debate on this subject for about two to three weeks and as I turned over, I started to understand why as a nation we are where we are. I was not excited to realise that fact. I would urge parliamentarians, all of us, however much a programme may appear to be good to us, to factor in an economic consideration.
Having said that, I have heard people calling for further assistance with Command Agriculture and I am saying, if you invest $600 thousand and get a net profit, let us reduce it from $1.2 million to $1 million, why do you need further assistance in business? That leads me to suspect that there may be some hidden enlightened self-interests in this project. I will be surprised if I am wrong. The interest could be personal but in individuals or alternatively, it could easily be political.
Mr. President, the next issue that worries me about this project is that, I am told we are selling to millers at $250/tonne. We have escalated our cost from $390 to around $450 and we turn around and sell that same product at $250/tonne. Our economics is a bad situation, even if we exported the product from the Command Agriculture, we will be exporting at a phenomenal loss. I do not know where we will go to from here. My stern belief is that, we need to reorganise our agriculture, we need to produce at cost effective prices so that we can best provide food for our people. I have experience, I do a bit of farming and I am saying, next door to me, there are two derelict farms and until we address that fundamental problem with our farming, we have a huge problem. If we continue like this for three or four years, this nation will grind to a halt largely because of a project that we perceived was worthwhile pushing. Mr. President, with those words, I make my contribution to this motion and still thank the Committee for going out there.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. President for according me this opportunity to add my voice on this report that was moved by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri and his seconder, which is in line with the success of Command Agriculture and GMBs. Mr. President, I want to thank this Command Agriculture which was a success during the past season. We want to thank our President, R. G. Mugabe for this programme that he launched in our country, which is Command Agriculture. I also want to thank the farmers who were able to do the farming for the betterment of Command Agriculture. Even our extension officers did a splendid job by supervising what was happening on the farms. We want to thank them for that.
Mr. President, I am saying, the issue of Command Agriculture is a good programme judging from the committee’s findings when they went out for the tours. When this programme was brought into Zimbabwe, where I come from, Chikomba in Seke, everyone was supposed to register for Command Agriculture. It was not political at all and I want to say that those who joined had a bumper harvest. As I stand here, I
had a bumper harvest. I want to say, as children of Zimbabwe, when we are given tools, we work very hard for our country. Even if we are living under sanctions, we are not feeling the effect because we have our maize and groundnuts and all our nutritious grains in our country. We want to thank even our ancestors in Zimbabwe and also God...
*THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, I
think you should end there, when it comes to thanking the ancestors because we had given you time to debate before it was removed from the Order Paper.
*HON. SEN. MURWIRA: I debated on the Presidential Speech
Mr. President.
*THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: This motion
was on there before we went on the break and it was reinstated on the Order Paper. There is confirmation that you once debated on this motion, they have checked with their books. Thank you so much that you have so much to contribute on Command Agriculture.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Mr.
President. I do not think I have debated before on this motion. I want to thank you for according me this opportunity to debate on this report that was brought in by the Committee on Peace and Security that is chaired by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri. I want to thank them for their report which they brought into this House after they have toured the whole country and have seen how the farmers have worked on the land. Farmers are now able to put the land in use as children of Zimbabwe. If we had engaged this programme immediately after we took our land, our Land Reform Programme in conjunction with the Command Agriculture, I think when we said Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of Zimbabwe, it would have remained like that. Besides that, learning does not end.
We want to thank our Government, through our President who sat down with his Cabinet and saw if fit that we should come up with this command programme which will make us stop importing food into Zimbabwe. If I am not wrong Mr. President, I think for five years or ten years, we were importing maize and food for our people from Malawi. I remember in 2008, we were eating yellow maize in this country but because of Command Agriculture and also the good rains that we received from our ancestors – the ancestors of Zimbabwe favoured us because when Command Agriculture was introduced, we received a lot of rainfall. We should praise whatever is good. Mr. President, there are those who might be against the programme. There are always people who grumble but that does not stop the country from going forward. We take advantage of our mistakes and we move forward.
We want this programme to go further and we support the Government when they say that we want three to five years with people getting help. We are saying that all those that get assistance from the Government should take their grains to the GMB and it should revolve within the Government with people paying back their loans so that our country remains receiving good harvests. During the colonial era, when the whites where farming in these farms, they would go and get loans for irrigation. They would be given loans for livestock and no one would raise their heads. They would also take loans to construct tobacco bans and they would be in debt. Some of them did not pay until now.
Our children that are in farms are working very hard in farms that they were given. If you come to our area Chikomba, at Chivhu GMB, you will see maize coming from Mashonaland Central where they had received good rains. The GMB depot in Chivhu is now overflowing. I invite our doubting Thomases to Chikomba in Chivhu; the depot in
Chivhu which you used to know and the whites used to call this United Republic of Enkeldoorn which is now Chikomba district. You should come and see the maize that is there which we are also transporting to other districts; which means that this programme was a success, so we support this programme. We applaud the Government that the programme which they started has been welcomed by people and as a result, our granaries are now full. Looking at the weather, you can see that the rains are near - even in our areas in Chigara, we received some heavy rains. It means that starting from 15th October, many people will start to plough, and that is what we used to do long back.
In October, spring time, our elders could predict the weather by looking at the clouds, they will be able to interpret if rains are due. So, they will prepare their fields and sow maize so that by the time the rains progresses the maize will have sprouted. Mr. President Sir, through this Senate, I am urging Government to speed up the distribution of inputs. If we still have people who still doubt that our country will never move forward, we will still go back and import maize. I think as mature people in this Senate where we have Chiefs, let us give credit where it is due and also rectify our mistakes. Fertilisers and seeds should be given to people in time and they should be monitoring plans so that inputs will be given to the right people. If we do that, we will be talking as mature people so that our country moves forward.
Mr. President, I want to thank you for this opportunity that you have given me. We know that our GMB depots were dilapidated but because of command farming, they have been refurbished and painted. I heard a tenant saying if only they can open the door, I could go and stay there but unfortunately the granaries were refurbished so that our granaries will be full to capacity. When it comes to command farming, we should also have the Zunde Ramambo in place because Chiefs are humans too. They plough, and they look after the orphans. They are just like anyone of us, the only difference is that they have traditional powers bestowed on them that come from our lineages and they are not voted for. What the Chiefs are saying is the truth that command agriculture was a success. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to add my voice to this wonderful job that was done by the Committee. I also want to thank the Chairperson of the Committee Hon. Sen. Mumvuri and the whole Committee for a job well done. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Makone who supported the motion. I want to thank our leader Mr. Morgan Tsvangirai for selecting Hon. Sen. Makone to be one of us in this Senate. We have elite leaders in this august Senate.
Mr. President Sir, I want to commend the Committee for a job well done. We moved around the country to see if people where benefiting anything and realised that people had gained a lot. We went to Masvingo and Manicaland Provinces. We went round the place and we were asking the farmers whether they benefited from Command Agriculture and they told us that Command Agriculture was the best thing that has ever happened. We even asked them whether they have received the inputs on time. Some of them informed us that they had received the inputs on time whilst others said they received partial deliveries such as getting seed, no fertiliser and no herbicides. We are saying this is a new project and it has its teething problems but we know that if we continue following this programme, there is going to be development and prosperity in Zimbabwe. We know that Government is making plans of distributing the inputs in this coming season. We are also calling for the Government to bring all the inputs at the same time so that each farmer receives what they want in time. If each province is given an allocation of its inputs such as five or ten tones, that will be
fair.
However, the problem we faced in the Command Agriculture was in the harvest where we had very few harvesters to collect the maize which had been grown by the farmers. Importing grain is a pain in any country; it is a torture. We would like to have our own food and be self sufficient. Moving around places like in Manicaland, we discovered that the people of Zimbabwe are hardworking, very industrious but what was drawing them back was lack of inputs. We discovered that with the support of the Command Agriculture, they have worked well.
Let us craft laws which drive away those money changers in the streets so that money will circulate properly in the banks. We are glad because we were told that if you plant all the hectares, be it 100 or 200 hectares, it does not matter but we would want farmers to make reasonable repayment plans, so that the Command Agriculture Programme continues.
I am pleading with this Committee to continue doing its good work so that Zimbabwe progresses. We have to check on whether
Government is taking the inputs to the farmers on time. We travelled by road into some of these places and I remember at one point we were very much surprised to see very good and healthy crops in Mashonaland West farms. We asked whether one particular farm belonged to an individual and we were told that it belonged to a local farmer. So, inputs should be distributed with no partisan affinity but should be distributed to all the people of Zimbabwe. Some of us are not farmers, we get our food from the supermarkets. That is where we survive from.
We know that the Minister of Finance and the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa are working on this programme. I am begging them to make sure that all the money that is circulating in the streets is taken back to the banks for the benefit of all the Zimbabweans – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
*THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon.
Chabuka, thank you very much for your contribution. I am pleading with you to keep on spreading that gospel; this will lead to the development of the country.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 12th October, 2017.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON PROMOTING
STAKEHOLDER AND PARLIAMENTARY DIALOGUE ON THE
ARMS TRADE TREATY (ATT)
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Delegation to the International Conference on promoting
Stakeholder and Parliamentary Dialogue on Arms Treaty.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 12th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MAKONE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Six Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 10th October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. SPEAKER: There is an error on the Order Paper, on
page 88, the day is recorded as Thursday instead of Tuesday.
INVITATION TO THE ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY
CAUCUS MEETING
THE HON. SPEAKER: All Members of the Zimbabwe
Women’s Parliamentary Caucus are invited to a meeting on Wednesday, 11th October, 2017, in the Senate Chamber at 1000 hours. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the women’s manifesto.
LAUNCH OF THE ZEC BVR EXERCISE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that the
Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) will launch and explain the
Biometric Voters Registration (BVR) exercise to all Members of
Parliament tomorrow in the National Assembly, starting at 0830 hours. ZEC will also facilitate the registration of all Members of Parliament over a number of days. To facilitate the registration exercise, Hon. Members are kindly requested to bring their national identity cards or passports and proof of residence.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, I have made one
observation. Hon. Members, you must be in the House before the
Speaker’s procession. It is not proper and against our standing orders that Hon. Members start trooping in after the prayer. That is not correct, that is totally unprocedural.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 9 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 10 and the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I will start off by saying good afternoon to you Sir. I bring to you fraternal greetings from the heroic people of Uzumba Constituency. Allow me to thank His
Excellency the President, the Commander in Chief of Zimbabwe Defence Forces, Cde. Robert. Gabriel Mugabe for having time to come to the august House. I also need to thank His Excellency for the introduction of Command Agriculture. This has changed the landscape of all our growth points. All our GMBs are now busy and most of the youth have now been employed. This will transform our communal lands.
I also want to thank Hon. Members for the good behaviour during the address by His Excellency. This showed a sign of maturity from
Hon. Members. I want to thank Cde. Robert. Gabriel Mugabe, our
President, for the development of education in Uzumba Constituency. Uzumba Constituency Mr. Speaker Sir, stands as the only constituency in Zimbabwe where every primary school has a secondary school. We have Chidodo, Chikuhwa, Chimhodzi, Chipfunde, Chitimbe, Gadaga,
Kaseke, Machekera, Marembera, Marowe, Mashambanhaka, Matsenga, Mayema and Musanhi; all these schools are secondary schools with primary schools. The achievement has been through participation of the people in the constituency. We have a policy that says the energy we use in eating food is the same energy we must apply in developing our schools because education is the most important thing that a constituency or a nation can get. The other thing is that I am proud to report to the august House that all primary and secondary schools … THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Hon. Members, if you want to engage in loud conversations, please get out of the Chamber or the Chair will send you out. We need to understand what the debate is all about.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for the protection…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chirisa, can you leave the House.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Hon. Members need to listen because I have the experience of being once a Minister and an MP. It is something that is very important and people must listen when I debate so that when they debate they do so constructively. Mr. Speaker Sir, our Uzumba Constituency has a total of 21790 learners and all the teachers in the primary and secondary schools, most of them have now been accommodated. Those who do not have accommodation – we have developed a new system where we go to villages and identify people who live in Harare and are not always using their houses. The schools are now renting those houses for our teachers. It is important that all our teachers must have decent accommodation for the development of our education. We had to do this because of different structures like myself – when you sleep the level of snoring disturbs other people in the next room. So, through this system we have normalised the snoring and everything.
The other thing I want to thank His Excellency the President for, is that we now have Nhakiwa/Nyakasoro Vocational Training Centre.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you be more serious.
What do you mean by normalising the snoring?
HON. MUDARIKWA: I am saying, it will not disturb the other person. It will be your own problem and it will not affect the other person in the next House as people will be in isolation. That is how we try to normalise the snoring Mr. Speaker Sir.
Nhakiwa/Nyakasoro Vocational Training Centre has a total of 103 students doing motor maintenance, building, hospitality and clothing. We also have 117 students on attachment. This centre has recently produced 25 students who are now working on one of the Chinese construction company. They started with difficulties but now they are coping and are able to lay 1000 bricks a day. It is important that every district in Zimbabwe has vocational training centres because they serve to improve the skills of our youths in rural areas. For any programme to succeed, even if you are going to cut trees, you need to sharpen your axe. So we have sharpened the skills of our youths in the Uzumba Constituency. They are here now working for this Chinese construction company. During the weekend, they come back home and their quality of life has changed because they are earning a living. It is very important that we do not waste our students from Form 1 to 4 by just letting them go. We must make sure that they acquire certain skills.
We have also developed a short course programme for a group that is involved in the making of shoes and garments. This group comes from one of our villages. We had 38 people between the ages of 35 and 85 years who came just to polish up their skills. Some of them used to work here in Harare. So, we are developing a system where we are now producing our own overalls and our own worksuits. Those who want to place orders, worksuits from my constituency, if I was allowed to bring one and maybe I will put it on just for demonstration, it costs only $15. This is a normal high quality worksuit now produced in rural areas. I have shoes that are under the banner of Uzumba style – they are also produced – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I have them in my vehicle.
Mr. Speaker Sir, just for the interest of those who are arguing, I
will present that pair of shoes to you so that you will show them that that is something produced in Uzumba Constituency. We have hands, eyes and ears – why are we failing to produce things on our own. It is our responsibility that we must continue to do this in order to empower our rural areas, because that is where 80% of the people live and they must be empowered to produce their basic requirements.
I wish to thank ZINARA for providing a motorised grader in
Uzumba Constituency and they are also providing diesel to UMP Zvataida Rural District Council. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would want to also thank His Excellency the President and Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces for providing electricity to all our traditional chiefs through REA. All the chiefs in our Constituency now have electrified houses. We have come in to assist in the tubing of the houses because REA only brings electricity up to the wall and then the internal tubing has been my responsibility as the Constituency Member of Parliament.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we remain as one of the constituencies that challenge every constituency in the area of music. This Friday Mr. Speaker Sir, Jah Prayzah is going to launch a CD known as Kutonga kwaro.
Hon. Nduna having passed between the Chair and the Hon.
Member speaking.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. You cannot move in front of an Hon. Member who is speaking.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Jah Prayzah is from Uzumba Constituency and he dominates the music industry. We also have Andy Muridzo who is also a young upcoming artist. We also have Douglas Vambe – the one who produced those news drums. It is important Mr. Speaker that as Hon. Members, we identify talent of musicians and cultural groups from our constituencies and then assist them in terms of exposure so that they can be known by everybody.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to conclude by raising a concern about what has happened recently at Mbare-Musika. They have now started importing vegetables from South Africa and this is affecting my Constituency because we produce a lot of tomatoes and vegetables that come every day for sale at Mbare-Musika. We need the assistance of the august House to protect the market at Mbare-Musika. If we are not able to protect our market, then, our people will compete with produce produced in South Africa and some of the produce is GMO.
I would want to thank those Hon. Members who were listening and I would also want to thank those who were not listening because they were not talking whilst I was presenting my speech. I also want to thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity and you also attentively listened to my contribution. I want so salute you Mr. Speaker Sir and I wish you will be our Speaker next year. Thank you very much. *HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I stood up to add my voice in a few words to the Presidential Speech that was given by the President as we support him. Let me start on the Command
Agriculture – it was mentioned by the President in his speech. Command Agriculture is a very good project that was successful. When the President was talking about Command Agriculture, he said that this year this programme will still be in force. However, but in my opinion, when he mentioned Command Agriculture – that people will be getting a lot of things, they became excited and prices for inputs went up to alarming levels. The pesticides that we used to buy for $15 a litre, have been doubled and they are now being sold at $45 per litre. Fertilizer that used to be very affordable at between $30 and $32 is now costing $45 to $50. This means that Command Agriculture was a good initiative but because people are so greedy, they increased the prices because right now they heard that the shops had increased their prices of commodities and they did not realise that the inputs for agriculture would also go up.
These were raised to alarming levels.
So, we want to thank the President for the Command Agriculture but we also want him to send teams to investigate the prices that have gone up because they now prohibit us as the ordinary men to go and buy. It is true and in the rural areas the President also mentioned the inputs for subsistence farmers, but can a person really wait for 10 kgs from the President? This is just to render assistance with 50 kgs of Compound D and top dressing fertilizers. There are other farmers who are able to farm much more than this. Those people in the rural areas are subsistence farmers and they cannot afford the expensive fertilizers because the 727 seed now costs $100 for 18kgs.
So if this person is a subsistence farmer from the rural areas for example Buhera where there is always a drought, it means that the person can no longer afford to buy fertilizer or the seed itself. So, the President talked about Command Agriculture which is a good initiative but we request that the Government goes down on the ground and investigate what is happening - not only to investigate the prices of biscuits and other commodities but also the price of inputs for agriculture.
Agricultural inputs are what affect the lives of the people and they should be monitored. So, I am hoping that what we are saying here, if they go out into the fields and see what is happening. The rise in prices has affected agriculture whether the prices were raised through WhatsApp or whatever. This gesture is meant to destroy the nation. The country should not deteriorate.
Secondly, I want to talk about corruption Mr. Speaker Sir. In this country, corruption has become a cancer. Corruption, the President has reiterated this. He can talk and mention about corruption many times but what concerns us is that the people who are found in corrupt activities, not even one of them has been arrested in this country. There have been no arrests. This is a very difficult issue. When I am in my constituency Mr. Speaker, people ask me – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker I seek your protection from those who are talking too much for them to keep quiet as I debate.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: When I am in my constituency, I am
questioned by people who elected me that why is it that the President is always talking about corruption now and again. Who has been arrested for corruption and yet it is a cancer in this country. Corruption in this country has become a painful situation. We do not know what the future holds. At one time I was thinking to myself and thought of Jesus Christ preaching the Gospel when he was approached that a woman who was caught in adultery was to be stoned. Jesus told them that whoever had not sinned should throw the first stone. So when I look at people in this country, I think everyone is involved in corruption because if all of us had not been corrupt, at least a few people would have been arrested but no one has been arrested.
So we end up not knowing why corruption continues to be mentioned and also why the Commission was put in place because it is a toothless bulldog. There is nothing to show in terms of its achievements.
If the Commission decides to arrest anyone it has to start with its members because they are not serious at all– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –. They should be people who should ensure that the corrupt people are arrested without fear or favour. So corruption will not come to an end in this nation.
As I stand here, I know when I talk of corruption in this House there are people who are going to question why I mentioned it. The issue of corruption; we did not go for the liberation struggle for corruption to persist. We went to war so that people would have freedom and be able to enjoy the benefits of Zimbabwe. In fact, during the war we learnt Leninism and Marxism of the Soviet Union, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – which actually said what you have is also mine. Whatever you have belongs to all of us. So, if Leninism and
Marxism does not apply, then what does it mean– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –. We went to war and we have become a laughing stock because they ask us why we went to war – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – .
We need the Anti-Corruption Commission to be independent and it should be like ZEC. No one should go there. ZEC is an independent commission and no one controls ZEC, whether it is the President or the opposition no one intervenes in ZEC operations. That is what we want the Anti-Corruption Commission to become, not that when we are told there is an Anti-Corruption Commission people follow this Commission and the Commissioners are unable to work because they are intimidated and threatened. We do not want that.
We once mentioned in this august House Mr. Speaker that if it is a challenge the Hon. Members should form an Anti-Corruption
Commission with three members from the opposition and three from the ruling party because that will assist us. Why I say it will assist us is that our own people who voted for us to be in this House will be looking forward to see what we are going to do. So if I do not do my work well, I will fail my electorate. I have to work hard for my electorate to realise that they have elected a good leader because once I fail as a leader, they will not elect me.
The President talked about reshuffling – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Reshuffling should be extended to the
Commissions, especially the Anti-Corruption Commission – [AN HON. MEMBER: Very powerful speech.] – Mr. Speaker, when you hear me speaking in this manner it is because I am deeply concerned about my nation. Honestly Mr. Speaker, the corruption we are talking about here, there is so much money in this country, but people cannot access their cash to go and buy a child a banana. A woman cannot buy her child a banana in the street. It is not that this country does not have money. The bond –
*HON. MUPFUMI: On a point of order. In terms of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, it does not say that the Anti-Corruption
Commission should investigate starting from the President. The Hon. Member should be advised that a sitting President cannot be investigated by the Anti-Corruption Commission. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is that what the Hon. Member said?
*HON. MUPFUMI: The Hon. Member said the Anti-Corruption Commission should start its investigations from the President going down – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order Hon. Mliswa. Hon.
Mupfumi, you are correct in your statement but Hon. Chinotimba did not say that.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I believe that the Hon. Member was asleep. I have mentioned in this august House as if I was foretelling the future that as soon as I am through with my debate, my words were going to be turned around and there you are, I am vindicated. I request that the President gets this recording so that he could hear it. I was grateful for the reshuffle and that there should be a reshuffle in the Anti-Corruption Commission. If the Hon. Member did not hear, maybe he must have been asleep. You always encourage us to be wide awake but they are not taking heed of your advice.
Mr. Speaker, let me proceed and say that I am quite disturbed. The Hon. Member is not only an Hon. Member but indeed, he is my friend.
He has disturbed my line of thought. I require to come back as a Member of Parliament for Buhera South next year and I would not want my constituency to fail to vote for me because of other people who have misinterpreted my utterances. The supply is across the political divide.
People are busy pulling each other down, in the MDC and in ZANU PF.
Lastly, I would want to thank those in my constituency. We are doing quite well in terms of electrification. The only problem that we have is that once the transmission lines have been erected, a lot of time elapses before accessing transformers, but people are quite happy when the lines are put in place. They come and congratulate us for a job well done. Later on, they will ask about the issues of the delays in transformers being timeously delivered.
We urge that these transformers be delivered in rural constituencies in time. There should be variations on the prices of electricity. There are people that are employed in the urban centres and there are those rural dwellers who are not employed and at times we have droughts. If it were possible, rural electricity tariffs should be different from those ones that are imposed in urban centres. There should be a discount for the rural area consumers.
In the farms where there is farming, it is also our plea that, the farmers are doing production, but electricity is expensive. The current production and what they are going to have, there is a disparity. In fact, the farmer will not be able to profitably produce. If it were possible, there should be a discount for farmers. The same applies to the communal areas in terms of their tariffs, and they should be given a discount. Our grandmothers are having their huts burnt because of candles. An elderly woman will go to sleep when the lamp is still on and the house is set on fire.
I am not saying they should not pay for electricity, but I am saying that when the second war came to an end, the white farmers were given land and for twenty years, they were not paying for electricity. When they later paid, they were very oppressive. That is why in First Street, blacks were not allowed because it was a no go area for blacks. It was for the whites. We do not want the discrimination that was played by the Smith Regime. We are saying that in the communal lands, they should pay a lower tariff of even 2%, lower than the urban dwellers. May be 2% of 10% so that people can be able to utilise electricity and live in light and not in darkness.
Electricity should be affordable. What hurts most is that while electricity has been made available, the electricity is going to schools, which is different from countries like Romania, China and even Yugoslavia where we went to. They would divert the electricity to the shops and they live in close communities. The villages are in close proximity. So, the Yugoslavian Government does not target electricity for schools only. They target it for the villages.
Our Government is busy supplying electricity to schools and the ordinary man and woman is asked to pay for power lines to ensure that they tape into electricity that goes to the school. The people cannot be able to raise the funds and so, electricity should pass through the people’s homes. In their respective village heads, they should be able to access this electricity. So, Mr. Speaker, because my time has been disturbed, may I be allowed five minutes because I was interrupted? People will not record that I was interrupted but I need a chance. If there is a disruption in football, additional time is given. Be that as it may, I thank you that you have heard my debate.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me
this opportunity to debate on the Presidential Speech. Before I go further, allow me Mr. Speaker to thank the previous speaker, Hon. Chinotimba for his views over the issue of corruption. I would not differ but I am also going to discuss in my debate the issue of corruption and what I envisaged personally as a Member of Parliament as the issue of State capture.
Mr. Speaker, allow me also to thank His Excellency, the President,
Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe for the speech that he delivered at the United Nations General Assembly. As a citizen of this country, I am very much concerned at the carelessness that the bodyguards to the President displayed in front of international cameras when the President had actually to struggle to get to the podium – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Let me finish. I have observed Mr. Speaker that heads of other States are even wheeled on a wheelchair to the podium. Why did our bodyguards allow the President to embarrass himself by moving towards the podium with so much effort when they should have been there to look after him? As a citizen of this country, I have a right to complain on the behaviour of those who accompany the President to the United Nations.
Mr. Speaker, I do believe that when the President comes to
Parliament, the input that he put before us is contributed by the various Ministries. As such, I observe that there were certain benchmarks that the President was supposed to set on the various topics but these were overlooked. There is the issue of pension for example Mr. Speaker. We are aware that in Zimbabwe, we have pensions that used to be paid by white bosses who have since left this country. No piece of legislation has been proposed to address the issue of pensions. As a result, we have destitute former workers who are not benefiting on issues of pension from any other source. Therefore, we have destitute people who are elderly and are unable to look after themselves. I thought that should have formed part of the agenda on the presentation of the President’s Speech.
The President, in his third paragraph, actually discussed the issue of handling of children that are in conflict with the law, the Child Justice Bill. Mr. Speaker, we cannot talk about the Child Justice Bill without taking into consideration what occurred in South Africa, perpetrated by the First Lady. That was abuse of children in South Africa. As such, we should take note of that and not overlook some of the short comings that we have within our own state in terms of attitudes towards the child justice both in Zimbabwe and South Africa.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member, I am sure
you are aware that this matter is before the courts and therefore it is subjudice, it cannot be discussed. So, if you could withdraw that element.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that statement but my understanding was that diplomatic immunity had been availed to the …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, the matter is before the courts.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I withdraw that statement Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. Carry on.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: In his fourth paragraph, the President talks about the Coroner’s Office Bill. Mr. Speaker, this Bill is to establish the Coroner’s office that will be responsible for medical legal investigation. It brings to mind the issue of what transpired after the death of General Mujuru. While the inquest referred to a blue flame, however, the final report had nothing to do with the facts that were presented before the courts. So Mr. Speaker, I personally do welcome the introduction of the Coroner’s Bill because whatever deaths that occur in this country are going to be thoroughly investigated. I hope in retrospect, because some of the investigations that were conducted during the death of General Mujuru were never conclusive.
Mr. Speaker, I go to paragraph 5. Paragraph 5 refers to the issue of increased optimism about the economy of this country. Credit is given to Command Agriculture. However Mr. Speaker, observing when one travels around this country, almost 45 to 50% of the land that is supposed to be utilised is not being used for agricultural purposes. Farms are still lying fallow and we need to improve on the issue of utilisation of land. Not only that Mr. Speaker, when we talk about the revival of our economy, we still are witnessing long bank queues where people are unable to withdraw the funds that they would have deposited or funds earned from either selling of tobacco or maize that farmers are producing.
Mr. Speaker, it is not a secret that we are still witnessing high interest rates in terms of loans that are given by banks. That makes borrowing in this country very expensive. As a result, I would have thought the President would have inferred to the issue of high interest rates that need to be lowered in order to make funds available for capital far much less expensive than is the case at the moment.
Mr. Speaker, there is also the issue of holding of goods that is being conducted by leading companies that we expect to be exemplary.
Madam Speaker, I would like to point out on the issue of farming also.
We have Hon. Members sitting in this House that are actually advocating for the denial of inputs to MDC T supporters – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I will give an example. I am not stopping. The Hon. Member for Guruve South, I was there yesterday afternoon. It is very unfortunate that he called for meetings and advocated that MDC T members should not receive inputs that were actually being donated by the President. I do believe Madam Speaker that when a President donates inputs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Hon.
Members, I hear loud voices. I am appealing to the House. We want to hear what the Hon. Member is debating. Do you not want to hear what he is saying?
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I am making allegations here, I want you to defend yourselves.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could you please proceed?
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Hon. Member for Guruve South I will repeat, Hon. Dutiro actually called for a meeting where he advocated for the denial of inputs to MDC T supporters in Guruve South. I was there yesterday afternoon.
Madam Speaker, one thing that I thought the President was going to touch on apart from Command Agriculture or agriculture in general is the issue of infrastructure development in resettlement areas.
Infrastructure in resettlement areas is suffering from lack of primary and secondary schools. Secondly, there are no clinics. I remember the
Minister of Health and Child Care stating before this House in October 2013, that his target was to build 2 400 clinics. I would have wished that the Minister would have been here and finally give a response. Did he construct 2 400 clinics in resettlement areas? It is not true Madam Speaker. I think we would be very lucky if he has constructed 40 or 50 of them; if not less than 20. We expect such issues to be addressed when the President comes to open Parliament as he sets out his agenda.
On paragraph 8 Madam Speaker, the President refers to enhancement of National Economic Competitiveness so that the country can become a destination for Foreign Direct Investment (FDI). Madam Speaker, I will restate again. The 51-49 % indigenisation policy is the one that has denied us foreign direct investment. I challenge this House to nominate or mention two or three people who have benefited from the
51-49% legislation that was passed in this House in the last parliamentary sitting. There is not even a single soul and we are not reaping any advantages. Unless we come together in this House and scrap indigenisation, yes but the methodology of going about it is not to say, if I come from Japan and I have one hundred million dollars, Zimbabwe takes fifty one million and they leave me with forty-nine – who will then chair the board? It does not make sense. Unless we sober up and recognise that the 51-49 proportion on indigenisation is actually detrimental to what is happening in this country and that we need to correct it.
Madam Speaker, on paragraph 9, there is also the issue of the amendment of the labour laws that is to address the plight of workers. However, the President refers to the labour market flexibility. I spent fifteen years in the trade union movement. There is nothing like labour market flexibility other than allowing people to be exploited as was the situation during colonialism. Infact, we should be protecting jobs and protecting the workers as well. Job security is very important.
However, I am going to mention something that I have also observed as
State capture - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, I think it is the row of benches where Hon. Matangira is sitting. You are having your own meeting there. Please may you be quiet?
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Madam Speaker, I am again forced to
observe the issue of State capture as in the manner of the expulsion of workers and mine workers (makorokoza) at Manzou Farm in Mazowe
District. Again, it is sad to note that there is the element of State capture by personal possession of the Mazowe Dam which was constructed before the First Lady was born. It is sad that those who were doing business on Mazowe Dam can no longer do so and it is being controlled by police to ensure that everyone is kept out in preference to the use by the First Family.
I also observe when we talk about labour market flexibility; there is the issue of parastatals. Parastatals are being exploited by having salaries reduced unilaterally. Parastatal workers are being exploited by actually losing leave accrued during their service when they are working for the various parastatals. I cite one – Tel One as one example where I have evidence that was brought to me by some of the workers on how they are being exploited.
When we talk about economic revival, one cannot allow a situation where the President overlooks the issue of Air Zimbabwe or National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ). In Africa today, there is development of the fast train. If we look at Ethiopia, the Chinese are building fast trains.
Only this afternoon, I learnt that one North African country- [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members!
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I learnt that one North African country was testing a fast train which was going at 275 km/hr. That is in Africa. We have underground trains in Johannesburg but however, what we are witnessing in Harare is congestion after congestion of smaller cars, mavitz.
I would like to appeal that even the appointment of parastatal boards should not be done on a partisan or ethnicity basis. The award of tenders in parastatals is an issue that this Parliament is supposed to discuss. Let us not be diverted by just aligning laws with the Constitution and overlooking major issues that this Parliament is supposed to discuss.
Paragraph 10 talks of the Cooperating Societies Amendment Bill, if I am to read it correctly, maybe it was supposed to say the
Cooperatives Societies Amendment Bill. The abuse of cooperatives in urban areas is such that there has been the bastardising of urban planning. Where cooperatives start setting up their houses, no servicing will have been conducted. In other words, structures are put up but there is no drainage system. If we look at White House, Operation Garikai, those houses were constructed without toilets or any drainage system. I can see that my time is almost up Madam Speaker. I wish I would go on and on.
When we talk about infrastructure - I was in Muzarabani yesterday. In Muzarabani, dams and bridges that were damaged by Elnino have not yet been repaired. Only one bridge has been repaired. I travelled a circumference of almost 150kms – roads are damaged and there are more than 15 bridges that have not been repaired. Which country are we living in? I wonder what the Muzarabani Member of Parliament is going to stand for in order to be re-elected for 2018 because the damage there needs repairs. Hon. Kanhanga is doing something in his constituency.
In conclusion, I bemoan the absence of pertinent issues in the
President’s speech to Parliament which does not address the issue of infrastructure development or rebuilding our national railways so that we can re-coup what we have lost throughout the years. The speech does not dwell on the issue of road expansion in the urban areas so that we have intertwined roads that move with the times. Failure to address youth unemployment in this President’s speech leaves a lot to be desired. With that Madam Speaker, I will stop here and I will continue through other debates.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing me to also debate on the motion of the speech by the President. Hon. Speaker, generally and in normal countries – the date of the Official Opening of Parliament when the President comes to address the nation on the agenda of the next year, it is a serious event in the calendar of any nation. It is an event that is supposed to take grip of the whole nation so that the whole nation can then pay attention to what the President wants to say. It is one of the very few events except these days; there are a lot of interface rallies where we hear all manner of insults and despicable language not suitable for consumption …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. For
your own information, we are debating on the speech which was presented by the President and not the activities of the President.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I think before you stop me
…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have heard what you have been saying concerning the interface…
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Maybe you are not following the direction that I am taking Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please proceed?
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: I am simply trying to portray and give you the picture of how important the day of Official Opening of Parliament is.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is alright, you can proceed.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Generally, on that particular day, it is the day when citizens expect the Head of State who is the Chief Executive Officer of the country to speak to their concerns or issues that are affecting them daily in terms of their lives. The citizens expected and continue to expect the President, when he gets an opportunity to come and address Parliament to speak about some of these following issues; firstly, cash shortages – it is very clear that the environment outside the banks where Zimbabweans are kept in queues in order to try and get money each and every day is embarrassing and undignifying to the people of Zimbabwe. Therefore, the expectation is that when the President comes to speak to the nation, he should speak to those kinds of issues that are affecting the people on a daily basis. However, when I went through the speech by the President, it appears that this issue does not appear at all. The humiliation and violation of the right of Zimbabweans to have dignity, and to be respectable people, which is being violated each and every day was ignored in the speech of the President.
The citizens expected the President to speak to issues of rising prices of goods that are eroding the cost of living and increasing the cost of living for Zimbabweans. Hon. Speaker, it is clear that prices are rising almost each and every week in this country. The expectation of Zimbabweans is that the President should be able to speak to those issues and say how his Government intends to deal with those issues. Speaking about abstract things like the laws that he wants to enact does not auger well with Zimbabweans. Zimbabweans do not eat laws but eat bread and basic food stuffs that should be affordable. Those are the things people outside are expecting.
The speech of the President was supposed to address issues of unemployment levels. Currently, it is not by choice to get into any profession or activity that you are in. It is not by choice that we find everyone being a vendor. I was speaking to people in Binga, my constituency and everyone has become a fisherman, not by choice but because there is nothing else that one can do except to become a fisherman. In a normal working economy, Zimbabweans have a right to choose what they want to do. Those that want to start their own activities and be self employed should be able to do that. Those that want to go and work in white collar jobs should also be able to do that. But, the kind of economy that we have forces everyone to go one direction, which is being a vendor, a fisherman or a farmer and nothing
else.
Hon. Speaker, we also expected the President’s speech to deal with Government expenditure and priorities in terms of disbursement of the budgetary allocations. Currently, the budget of this country does not deal with issues of welfare of Zimbabweans. Basic welfare issues that we need to look at are issues that have got to do with the health of the population, education and the welfare of the aged and the disadvantaged. Those are the kind of things that are expected from Government expenditure but unfortunately when you go and look in our hospitals, they have become shelves and there is nothing taking place in hospitals because hospitals are no longer dispensing health. Schools – I am not sure when last the Government of Zimbabwe built educational infrastructure especially in primary and secondary schools. We are no longer investing in those areas that are supposed to actually secure the future of this nation in terms of the human capital. So, those are the kind of things that Zimbabweans expected the President to deal with.
We also expected that the President would deal with issues of retention of funds that are generated in particular areas. I know that we always talk of indigenisation that there is need for people to benefit from local resources. I come from Binga where all the kapenta fish in this country is basically coming from especially during these days of forex shortages. There is no more kapenta that is coming into the country from Mozambique because there is no more foreign currency to import kapenta fish. All the kapenta is originating from the Zambezi valley and when we look at the amounts of money that are being charged by both central Government and parastatals that are operating in natural resources, they are exorbitant. But, how much of that money is going back to reinvest in those areas where the natural resources are being extracted?
We are aware Hon. Speaker that in some areas like Chiadzwa and other areas where there are minerals and mines, there are share ownership schemes that benefit the local communities but there is nothing that is happening in certain areas. I can give you an example of Victoria Falls where the rain forest and other forests are generating so much money for the country but at the end of the day there is nothing that is being ploughed back into those areas as investment in those areas. All that money is coming to Harare and how it is allocated nobody knows. There is no transparency on how the monies that are being generated from the marginalised areas is being utilized. So, our expectation is that when the President comes to speak, he should speak to those areas that are going to improve and those that have been marginalised for a long time, but we do not see anything in his speech. What we see are laws that are not going to change the welfare of the people.
Hon. Speaker, it is my earnest view, like I indicated in my introduction, that the official opening of Parliament is a day that is supposed to grip the whole nation and expectations will be what it is that they will get from the President. But nowadays, I am quite sure even if you count the Members of Parliament; the majority was not there because there is nothing that comes out of the Head of State’s speech except mere speeches about laws that are not benefitting the country.
So, we are saying it is high time that when the Head of State comes to Parliament, he should speak about substantive issues that are affecting the welfare of the people of Zimbabwe. It should not be a forum where he simply comes to fulfill a role that has been put in our laws. It should be a time when he comes to speak to issues that are going to change the lives of Zimbabweans. Otherwise if he does not do that, it will simply continue to be a mere abstract ceremony that will not attract the attention of Zimbabweans. That is why you see that even vendors do not care about the parades that will be in Nelson Mandela street but will be busy with real issues. They know that whatever the ceremony is all about has got nothing to do with their welfare. It is time that we listen to the Head of State speaking to issues of substance.
We expected His Excellency the President to speak about uncontrolled expenditure by the Executive. The expenditure by the Executive in this country Hon. Speaker, is worrying the people that are outside there. We hear of scenarios where the Head of State travels to each and every conference. This other day I was listening to people in Binga saying this President – if there is a conference on toilets – he is going to attend. Why should the Head of State attend a conference on toilets? These should not be issues of emotions. These are issues of what is obtaining on the ground.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, I think
this is the same. You are also talking about emotional things because the President is invited wherever he goes. So, how can someone in Binga think the President is going to attend the official opening of a toilet? I think at times we need to - aah…
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, unfortunately people in Binga do not see the invitation but also the people in Binga are aware that when Heads of States are invited to these conferences, some Heads of States actually send their Ministers. They are aware that Presidents are allowed to delegate – what is the need of delegating Hon. Speaker.
Where there President uses $10 million to travel to New York, if a Minister is delegated to go and attend the same workshop, he/she will use less than a $1 million and then we could invest that other $9 million into social amenities of this country like in education and health.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, your debate is
very good because you are talking of very special things, but I think that you have to be careful not to bring some issues which are not supposed to be brought into a very good speech.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am not so sure Hon. Speaker, which issues I have imported which are not supposed to be in this debate, because I am speaking to issues of …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are now bringing in the
travelling of the President.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am debating the President’s Speech and
the President is the Head of State.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please proceed with
the speech of the President?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. So, we
expected the President to pronounce in his speech that he will now begin to delegate to conferences, rather than him becoming the only one that is travelling and with a delegation of all the clan of his family. Hon. Speaker, we do not deny that the President is entitled to travel to conferences but, I think that the delegations that he travels with should be limited.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Madam
Speaker Ma’am, we do now want to condescend and we do not want to speculate and we do not want to prevaricate. His Excellency, at any one time has he moved with his whole clan, and I think that the Hon. Member should withdraw that speculative behaviour that borders on near misses and lies. So, I am quite convinced that he needs to withdraw; otherwise I am convinced that His Excellency the President has never moved with the whole clan and he makes this House believe.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. Hon.
Member, I think it is the use of a word and if you can select a better word than a ‘clan’.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I think my hon. colleague
has to give me the proper definition of a ‘clan’.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am now talking to you that instead
of using ‘clan’, can you please a better word than that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: This country Hon. Speaker and this economy is actually bleeding, such that every Government department and everybody who is utilising public resources should ensure that in the use of those public resources, they are as economic as possible. That is what I am simply saying Hon. Speaker. We need to be as economic as possible when we are utilising public resources. That is what I am saying that we need to be as economic as possible – why take Bona and Chikoore to New York for Government business. Are they Government employees? That is just a simple question. We need to reduce the expenditure of Government by ensuring that when there is any foreign travel, only people that are relevant for that conference travel there and not friends and relatives. That is the only way we can reduce Government expenditure in this country.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we please go back to the President’s speech please Hon. Member?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: That is part and parcel of the President’s speech. So Hon. Speaker as I conclude, the President needs to be sensitive to the economic situation of the country. He should not be exempted from feeling what the old woman in Siabuwa in Binga is feeling. The President should also understand that the suffering of people of Guruve and Bikita that were being mentioned by Hon. Chinotimba should also affect him. How does he do that? He should ensure that his budget is also controlled. There is no way we can allow as a country a scenario where the President and his relatives travel at Government expense, getting an allowance of $1 500 a day from public coffers without …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon.
Member, can you please take your seat.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, thank you. As I sit down,
I think that the Constitution …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda thank you very
much and Hon. Nduna can you take your seat.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: He needs to take his seat.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I move that the Hon. Member’s time be extended in terms of the Standing Orders.
HON. MLISWA: I second.
HON. NDUNA: I object.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order. We have
procedures in this House and if it is objected, it is objected.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I appreciate.
HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker for
affording me this opportunity to also air my views. I would like to start by thanking the President for addressing this House and giving us objectives that we need to follow as this House and also the Executive.
Madam Speaker, I must hasten to say that I am a bit disappointed though that the President all the time gives direction. He leads us in the right and correct path but some of us decide to take a left turn and do exactly the opposite of what the President would have said or what is demanded by your particular office. Madam Speaker, the President in his speech talked about the issue of the economy and how we can grow it but, when you look at the reality on the ground, it is totally different and the opposite of how the President wants us to drive our issues.
I will begin with a simple issue of the land – look at the land distribution. We want to commend the Command Agriculture which came on very well and stabilised our food security a bit, and this season we did not have to actually spend the foreign currency that we do not have to try and import maize to cushion our people. So, we want to commend that but now again, whilst we are talking about the issue of the Command Agriculture and agriculture as a sector which is an important component in the economy of Zimbabwe, you will find that we have other comrades who have got more than two farms belonging to one person. You ask yourself, is this person pulling together in the same direction with what the President wants us to achieve and with what we want to achieve. Any normal meaning Zimbabwean who wants the economy to tick again will not be greedy enough to go and grab two farms yet they are not able to actually farm on one of those farms. You find that when you go out there on those farm lands, most of the arms are underutilised. Even other farms that used to kick, for example I was in Esigodini where we used to have a very good farm that produced oranges, today it is an eye sore but somebody took it. When they took it what did they do about it? Those are the people that are our biggest let down and those are the people that we need to talk about because the
President has done everything.
Actually, Hosiah Chipanga once sang a song in Shona with the words “vaMugabe vanopa asi isusu njere ndisu tisina”. You see, the President gave us enabling factors for us to prosper but what have we done about it. I remember sometime back farmers were given implements like diesel, fertilisers and you name it, and they sold them. They did not put them into production and our economy started tethering and you wonder what is happening. It is because we have got some people that are not well meaning, who are not putting our country and economy first. People who want to have it the easy way, taking short cuts and that brings us ten steps backwards Madam Speaker.
Looking also at the issue of mining Madam Speaker, you find one white guy holding 250 claims yet they cannot even work on one claim. A claim is about 10 ha of land. They cannot work on one claim but they have 250 claims. Because they have money they are able to always renew their certificates and then hold on to that land for speculative reasons, but not economical reasons. If that land was let go and a miner just had one claim, and released the other claims to other people, we will be able to start producing that gold we need to get out and earn foreign currency.
Zimbabwe as a country can actually survive without even foreign direct investments as long as we have all these mining processes being done in a proper manner but the unfortunate thing that we have right now as a country and people, is that we have got a lot of dishonest and speculative people. People that want to think probably 10 years ahead but in a wrong and corrupt way. We want that Mining and Minerals Bill to come in so that these things are addressed. Let people hold on to what they are using and release what they are not using so that other people can have it, and then we can become productive and start earning that hard sought foreign currency Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, while I was listening to the President when he touched on the issue of health I was so appalled because I come from Bulawayo. There is a time when my colleagues and I went to Mpilo
Hospital where we had a cancer unit that had not been working since
2012 and yet the Harare one was working. We went out there and made noise. Action was taken and that unit started working. We went to Mpilo
Hospital with the late Deputy President of the Senate, Cde N.K. Ndlovu. When we made those noises the Ministry decided to act and that unit started functioning. Just a few months down the line, the unit was no longer functioning.
I went to Mpilo and asked the CEO of Mpilo Hospital what the problem was. He said they needed $65 000 and had been trying to speak to Treasury for them to release that money so that the company that repairs the machine can come from South Africa and do it. They will not come before they get this payment. Are you honestly telling me that we are failing to release $65 000 only so that the Mpilo Hospital Cancer
Unit can start working again, because we have got cancer patients in
Bulawayo who are dying every day and we are just sitting on our laurels.
In Harare, the machine is working. This is why now that argument will start coming and then people will start thinking we are being regional, tribalistic or whatever. It is because of such realities that hit you inside to say, really speaking are you telling me that even RBZ Governor Mangudya is failing to release $65 000 to Mpilo Hospital so that cancer unit can start working again. Are we really being serious Madam Speaker?
These are the kind of things that you must look at that are letting down the President’s drive for the resuscitation of this economy. How do you resuscitate an economy with such kinds of mindsets when you have a cancer unit which is supposed to be functioning and is not functioning? Go to the next hospital, the hospital that was coined by our last Vice President, Dr. J.N. Nkomo, and the Ekusileni Hospital. I stood here a year ago and spoke about it. We were promised that it was going to be functional by now. Now, I am asking myself if we should change the name of the hospital from Ekusuleni and maybe call it R. Mugabe Hospital so that they can open it – [Laughter.] – because it is so painful Madam Speaker.
Our people back there are saying that what is happening and what are you guys doing? So, I had an opportunity this weekend and approached Dr. Nyasha Masuka who was appointed to head the committee that is supposed to make sure that hospital is functional. When I approached him I said, Doctor you are fooling who here? Why is this thing not functioning? Do you know what happened? He actually showed me evidence saying that there are about nine international companies and three local guys who have put in their proposals and are willing to make sure that hospital can be opened yesterday, but maybe because somebody somewhere wants a cut somewhere they are hindering that thing from opening. Is that right? – [HON. MLISWA:
Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Mliswa please.
HON. J. TSHUMA: There is another hospital in Mashonaland Central, I think somewhere in Mt. Darwin which is almost like that and it is functioning. The one in Bulawayo, the late Vice President J. Nkomo died and left it not functioning. Another Vice President came in, a Dr. J. L. Nkomo and he died and it is still not functioning, right. Now, we have got another Vice President, should he die again and still it will not be functioning? How fair is that to the people of Bulawayo and Matebeleland and when they start talking you think they are being tribalistic, yet these are sincere things that are there – things that are not working or functioning.
I know that all these things, people will start putting the blame on the President. It is not the President but somebody down there who is playing silly games, trying to get money from nowhere. I would like this to be put on record that this thing of Ekusileni matter must be investigated because I am told that the companies are there. The companies are ready, but now because those companies are not willing to sort of bribe so the whole process is being stalled. That is not fair Madam Speaker and we should not allow such things to happen.
Madam Speaker, I listened very carefully to the President and when he mentioned the issue of labour, I quickly thought of some of our fellows. I have got members in my constituency of Pelandaba-Mpopoma who are pensioners. They are failing to get their pension. Even if it is little, why are they not being given their pensions? Some worked for the police, council and other different companies but they are being told to go to Harare and fix their pension, yet when they were working they were working in Bulawayo. Why are they not being sorted out in
Bulawayo. Where are they going to get the money to come to Harare?
Besides, when they come to Harare, they have no relatives and have to fork out money for accommodation, food and everything, and already they are pensioners. Their pensions are so meager. Where is our heart? Where is our Ubuntu, Hunhu hwedu? Where is it when we fail to cushion our elders who have worked all their lives and when they now want their pensions, they cannot get them but we have got a whole Ministry here, a whole system. The President has appointed but what are you doing when you have been appointed? That is the question. We need to make sure that these things are put into perspective because we cannot sit down and dilly-dally and go round and round and want to beautify what is ugly. When something is ugly, it is ugly. Do not end up saying that no, your shadow is beautiful. It can never be like that. So, we need to have these kind of things done Madam Speaker.
The President also spoke about the economy. I looked at the issue of the pricing system and I was saying to myself, here we are and I will give an example of Croco Motors. Just a few weeks ago, when you take your car for servicing, it would cost you about $200.00 to $300.00 but right now, if you go there it is costing you around $700.00 to $1 000.00 and you are saying to yourself, what price adjustment and justification do you get from such kind of hiking of prices? You go to the shops and see the basic commodities, it is the same thing. Why, this is because somebody is speculating and playing around with percentages on the bond notes and the US$.
How fair can we be Madam Speaker? If you go to Fourth Street right now or go to Bulawayo at Tredegold, you are going to find trunks and trunks of money, be it US$ or bond notes but at the end of the day, the blame goes to the President, the Government, ZANU PF and whatever and yet we are there as ordinary citizens of Zimbabwe, allowing ourselves to do such dirty things and turn a blind eye to that. I can tell you that some of the money is coming from the banks and the banks have got tellers and managers in the streets that are doing that. If you go to those people in the streets, they are working for somebody. Yes, we have got other Government officials that are corrupt and we have got other bankers that are also corrupt.
So, how do we solve those kind of things? We are now...
Hon. Wadyajena and others having been making noise.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, please
lower your voices. If you have a meeting, you can go out and have that meeting with that other Hon. Member.
HON. WADYAJENA: We are celebrating something.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I do not want to hear about
your celebration in this House. Your celebration should be done outside this House.
HON. WADYAJENA: I am sorry Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, can we proceed.
HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. When I speak
about issues that affect the people back in Matabeleland, I am very passionate about it and I want people to understand that. If it does not affect you in your area, it is good enough but let us represent the people from our areas because it is affecting us directly. Madam Speaker, I can see that my time is quickly running out. There is another issue again which the President touched on, the issue of education.
There is a reality that people want to run away from. Right now in Matabeleland, if you go to most schools, we are beginning to have a situation whereby the Ndebele language is not going to be taught properly because there are no properly qualified teachers who are supposed to be teaching that language. I want us to understand each other because we are not being tribalistic or regionalistic, but what I am saying is that a Ndebele teacher must be a Ndebele person so that it is easy. A Shona teacher must be a Shona person and it is simple and straight forward. There is no way that you are going to expect a Shona person to go and teach Ndebele in Matabeleland. It is distortion.
So, whoever is doing that in the Ministries must be warned because they are bringing unnecessary divisions because our people will not accept that. One day you will find people that are going to make an uprise there and chase those people away and what will then happen. That is reality and that is the truth. We need to look at it and face it because if we ignore it, that is a time bomb that is just waiting to explode one day. Let us be sincere about these things as we approach them because we want to be people that are known to be using our brains to think. Do not use any other thing, but use your brains to think. Do not be emotional or any other things, the brains were meant for that and let us use them.
The President was on point but what are we doing all of us here? We need to ask ourselves. Are we complimenting and are we being on point when we are assigned to do certain things. With those words Madam Speaker, may I thank you very much for giving me this time to also air my views and may I say good afternoon to you. Thank you. *HON. MAHIYA: Thank you Madam President. I rise to add my voice on a motion raised by Hon. Mackenzie, seconded by Hon. Mlilo. It is a debate in which we would want to thank the President for the
Official Opening Speech when he opened the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament. Madam Speaker, I was quite elated that the President explained on the issue of Command Agriculture which has improved our economy. However, I had a problem as regards Command Agriculture in the Gokwe/Gumunyu Constituency where a lot of farming is done in the form of maize or cotton.
As people grow these crops, they are receiving their payments through Eco-Cash. They have challenges in trying to come up with something meaningful. When people do farming, they are doing it to develop themselves. When the President came up with the project, it was to empower black people. It is my wish that there be several boosters in Gokwe/Gumunyu so that there will not be a stampede of people as they go to access the airwaves so that they are able to withdraw their money from Eco-Cash. There should be the availability of cash so that even if the Governor was to disburse cash into the banks, we are taken aback that farmers have serious problems in the funds. Where is that money going to?
We urge that there be a further improvement in the circulation of money. The use of Eco-Cash has led to people losing out because all what the farmers invested in the form of crops, their payments is now being used to buy basic food stuffs. I would want to also thank the President in terms of water harvesting. It is an important issue. We should have sufficient dams and once these dams are in place, irrigation projects can be used throughout the year.
We expect that in all communal lands, there should be irrigation projects based on the availability and I have given an example of Gokwe/Gumunyu Constituency with the big dam that was used for irrigation purposes. It is called Nyamasaka but the dam is now silted. I would ask that there be a desiltation of that particular dam so that people can be able to use irrigation. In terms of water harvesting, we urge that there be the construction of the new dam such as Sigangwe Dam in Gokwe/Gumunyu Constituency. We expect that such things be looked into. When there are projects that are to be planned in terms of the dams that are going to be developed and those that are going to be de-silted, also need to be attended to.
As regards the amendment of the Mines and Minerals Amendment Act, a lot of these minerals are found in communal lands. In Gumunyu, we have several types of minerals. People are doing as they please. We urge the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development to ensure that there is proper utilisation of these minerals by women and youths so that they can come up with their own cooperatives that will enable them to do the mining and that they be provided with the necessary machinery from
Government so that their mining becomes easier. With these few words, I would want to thank you for having granted me this opportunity. I thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 11th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI seconded by HON. MUKWANGWARIWA, the House adjourned at Seven Minutes past
Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 5th October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO ATTEND AN URGENT MEETING OF THE
ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS MEETING
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform all Members of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus that they are invited to attend an urgent meeting on Tuesday, 10th October, 2017 at 1200 hours in the Senate Chamber. The meeting is to discuss the women’s
manifesto.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to
8 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 9 has been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. CROSS: Madam Speaker, I rise to respond to the Address by the President when he opened this Session of Parliament. I want to raise a couple of issues of national importance that I think that this House should consider – the situation in which we find ourselves in today. The situation in Zimbabwe Madam Chair, that I am talking about is the economic and monetary crisis which we face at present. The situation is centred on one central issue which is the issue of the national deficit in the Budget.
If we we study the situation which prevailed between 2009 and 2013 – in 2009 Madam Speaker, our Gross Domestic Product reached about US$4 billion and we collected just short of a billion US dollars in taxes and revenues. The following year, we collected, US$1.7 billion, the year after that US$2.8, the year after that US$3.8 and the year after that we budgeted US$4.3 billion. Madam Speaker, that is a growth in GDP of fourteen times in four years. I think we had the fastest growing economy, not just in Africa but in the world. This is what economists call “a bounce back” because in 2008, we had the economic collapse with the collapse of currency.
The key to our stability during that period was the fact that the Minister of Finance followed a very simple principle. He said, “we eat what we kill”. In other words, each year we run a small Budget surplus. Members of the House might not appreciate the importance of that but rising out of that single central policy, the country had monetary stability. We did not have shortages of cash, we were to import everything we required and we met our bills externally on time. 2013 arrived and immediately, we did two things, there was a collapse of confidence in the market as the banks saw withdrawals of $1 billion, $1.5 billion left the stock market and was externalised and we know that about a billion US dollars fled the country via various other means.
As the consequence of these withdrawals from the market, the income to the State began to decline. However, we did not adjust our expenditure. In 2013 when we had planned for an expenditure of something like $4.2 billion with the income of $4.3 billion, we spent $4.8 billion and the revenues to the State declined. They did not achieve the target of $4.3 billion. In fact, we achieved less than 4 billion. This created a 500 million dollar deficit in 2013 after four years during which we had run a Budget surplus. In 2014 and 2015, we further exacerbated the situation by increasing expenditure in the face of declining revenues. I do not see how the Minister of Finance can claim that the economy of the country is growing, when revenue to the State is declining. Surely, growth in the GDP automatically leads to growth in taxes. In fact, that was not the situation which was happening between 2013 and 2015. In 2016, we simply took all restrictions off expenditure and in 2016 we now know that we spent $1.4bn more than we received in revenue.
When you talk to an economist about the budget deficit, the average fiscal deficit in all SADC states is about 6%. In Zimbabwe, in 2016, our budget deficit was 30%, one-third of our expenditure and income. That is completely unacceptable and unsustainable.
To make matters worse, in 2017 at the Mid Term Review when the Minister of Finance and Economic Development came and reported to the House on his half term results, he forecast that the budget deficit was going to rise to about $800m. He had planned $400m. In fact, since that review was presented to the House, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development has discovered another $1.2bn worth of expenditure by line ministries which has not been accounted for. That raises our half year deficit to $1.4bn. At the same time, he retained the forecast of income at $3.8 billion, I do not believe he is going to achieve about $3.8 billion, I think he is going to achieve $3.7billion. This means also that his expenditure this year is going to exceed $6bn. This could give us a budget deficit of $2.3bn or $2.4 billion.
These numbers are just extraordinary in economic terms. We have to ask ourselves, how we have been financing this massive deficit in state expenditure? The answer is, we have been printing money. We have gone back to 2008. We are printing money recklessly. I received my MP salary on 4th October, 2017. It was paid into my bank account at Stanbic Bank and I have been drawing down on those resources from my bank. What arrived in my account was not US dollars, it was an animal we call RTGS dollars. It is money created electronically. If you add that sort of money to the other forms of money – when the Minister was here last week, he told us how massively the electronic transfer of money has grown in the last four years. It is amazing how we have switched from cash and cheques to this electronic form of transacting business.
The other forms of cash which we have been creating are things like Treasury Bills and debentures. When the Minister settled the debts of Hwange Colliery the other day, he gave them debentures. I have not seen the debenture terms but I understand it is ten years without interest. That is printing money. It is printing money recklessly because it bears no relation to our production as a country. If these forms of money are not supported by productivity or real growth, then the result is going to be inflation. I am not at all surprised that as we speak today there is a substantial premium on real money. The premium is anything from 50% to 70%. If I was a businessman in Zimbabwe with money tied up in Zimbabwe, and I want to tell you that there are a billions of dollars locked into our banking system which cannot find any outlet. I talked to a manufacturer in South Africa the other day who exported fertilizer to Zimbabwe last year for the Command Agriculture Programme. He was owed $70m by the Government. They paid him in RTGS dollars. The money is sitting here in a bank account and he cannot get the money back to South Africa because he cannot convert that money into real cash. If he was to take that $70m and try to export it through the stock market, he would have to buy either PPC shares which are fungible or Old Mutual shares. If he bought Old Mutual, he would lose 70% of the value of his money. You cannot run a country like that. That is simple fiscal delinquency on a massive scale.
I was really quite shocked when the President spoke to this House and he did not mention this fact at all. It was not raised as an issue. He dealt with the question of our legislative programme purely and simply. To me, what he said was completely irrelevant because the real facts are that if you get your salary today, that salary is worth 30% less than what it was worth at the beginning of the year. By Christmas our salary will be worth half what it is worth at the beginning of the year. We are devaluing by stealth. Every civil servant in the country and every person who works on a fixed salary is going to feel the pain by the end of the year because you cannot print money on this scale and imagine that you are going to get away with it. You are not going to. The consequences are going to be exactly the same as 2008. It is going to be rampant hyper inflation which is going to destroy savings, industries, people’s living standards and it is going to destroy the productive sector in Zimbabwe. When a formal gold miner, not an informal gold miner because the bulk of informal gold is sold on the black market and they get paid in cash by the smugglers. If I am a formal gold producer and I have sold my gold to the Reserve Bank, I get paid today 50% in real money and 50% in bond notes. If I am a big producer and I give my gold to the
Central Bank and I get paid in RTGS dollars. What can I do with those RTGS dollars? I cannot buy anything externally. Their value is depreciating every day. I want to forecast now as we talk today that within a matter of months, the great majority of formal gold producers in this country will be bankrupt because, you cannot do that and imagine that there will be no correspondences.
I understand that fully when the Governor of the Reserve Bank demanded that Zimplats release 80% of their foreign earnings to the Central Bank for allocation to other people, they refused to do so. They argued they have an agreement with the Government which allows them to retain their foreign exchange in the form in which we receive it and we can use it in that form. If we want to sell foreign exchange, we will sell it at the market rate. If the Reserve Bank takes 80% of the revenue of Zimplats and converts it into RTGS dollars, the way we were doing it back in 2008, Zimplats would be bankrupt tomorrow because they could not pay their bills and staff. For me, if I was President of Zimbabwe, that is the key issue I would address.
We have been conducting public hearings for the last three days under the Budget and Finance Committee. Yesterday, we were in Chikomba and the Chief of the district was there with us. He spoke at the end of the meeting very passionately and asked where the burial place of the Zimbabwe dollar is. Why has it died? He does not understand what happened but he does know that we killed it and we did kill it. Along with its killings, when independence came in Zimbabwe,
Madam Speaker, the Z$ was worth two United States Dollars (US$2.00).
When I first started work in 1957 on a ranch in Matabeleland, the Rhodesian Dollar was worth two pounds.
Madam Speaker, running a currency properly and behaving
correctly in terms of the principles is a straightforward thing to do, and if you violet those principles, you pay the price. The price we have paid has been an enormous one – we have destroyed the accumulated savings of the country. I worked for 50 years and for 20 of those years I worked as a Chief Executive of major companies. I paid all those years into a pension fund. I paid 20% of my salary into a pension fund, by law. I paid more than US$1 500 000.00 into a pension fund, but because of inflation my pension today is $94.00 a month. Madam Speaker, that is a terrible price to pay, and all of us have paid it.
For me, the great tragedy of the President’s Speech is he did not raise this key issue at all – he never discussed it. I was astonished in the last three days in our public hearings at the extent of the anger amongst people at what is happening. I think, we as a Parliament have to face reality and we have to call a halt to this reckless expenditure on our behalf. I thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the
Day, Numbers 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 be stood over until Order of the
Day Number 15 has been disposed of.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MATTER OF PRIVILEGE
DISTURBING COMMUNICATION FROM THE ZIMBABWE
NATIONAL ARMY
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Just a matter of privilege Madam
Speaker, I am not debating but this is just a matter of privilege.
Hon. Speaker, I just wish to draw to your attention and to the attention of the House that as Members of Parliament and as the august House of this Republic where there is information that has the potential of destabilising the country or causing alarm and despondence. We have a duty to just seek clarification. There has been communication or a message doing the rounds, which communication I would have wished
or wanted to direct to one of the Ministers or any of the leaders of Government, but I realise that we do not have any of the Ministers here present to – [HON. MEMBERS: They are in the Senate!] - I am told they are in the Senate, to address these issues.
There has been some communication or statement that is purportedly and I must say purportedly being churned out from the Zimbabwe National Army (ZNA). It has the logo of the national army. I am not the only one - I know that this message has been circulating on the social media. It has been actually circulated – [HON. MEMBERS:
Isu hatina, tipewo!] –
THE HON. DEPTUY SPEAKER: Order, order, if you do not
have it then let him finish debating.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, this message has to do
with some instruction or intimation that there are tensions in the country both within the ruling party and the opposition which I am not so sure where it is deriving that and that there are intra-party tensions within all the parties.
That in pursuit of the constitutional mandate of peace and national security, there is action that is being taken in terms of suspending – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Sorry, I am paraphrasing so that I do not bother the House by reading the entire thing but if you want me to read the whole thing Hon. Speaker …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, instead of
stopping and so forth. I have allowed you to read the whole thing. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You know the reason why I am saying this is because as Parliament we must take important notice of such information. If it is fake information, it is incumbent upon our Government, particularly the Zimbabwe National Army to correct it as soon as possible, because it has been noted in Parliament.
The Zimbabwe National Army, it is on the logo of the Zimbabwe National Army, has noted – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members,
we have allowed him to bring and debate. So once we allow him, he has to proceed, yes.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for that indulgence. “The Zimbabwe National Army has noted with concern the escalation of tensions in both the ruling party and in the opposition parties in Zimbabwe.
It is from the background of these intra-party and inter-party tensions that the Zimbabwe National Army has recommended the suspension of all demonstrations, both political and civic from the 5th of October, 2017 until the reassessment of the tension and sees fit the resumption of such. This is in pursuit of our constitutional mandate towards the maintenance of peace and national security. All stakeholders are obliged to adhere to this recommendation and any breach will attract remedial action from the force.
For the avoidance of doubt, the Zimbabwe National Army will not sit on its laurels and watch any threats to the security of the nation and the State either caused by citizens or foreigners. We are in defence of the Constitution and the people of Zimbabwe”.
What I just thought Hon. Speaker was I had to bring it to the attention of the House so that it is confirmed if it is indeed the official position of our national army. This is a very important statement, if it is a lie, it is also an important one because then – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – Honourable, please let us take serious things seriously.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member
can we please be serious.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: This is a very serious …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you
have brought something that is very important to the House.
What we are going to do is to check whether this is authentic or not but alerting the House, I think, is very important. Thank you very much.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank Madam Speaker. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mudyiwa you may proceed. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order Hon. Members, if you need information from Hon. Chamisa you can go closer to him and not to call each other in the
House.
MOTION
VELD FIRES LEGISLATIVE FRAMEWORK
HON. MUDYIWA: I move the motion standing in my name;
That this House:-
AWARE that the veld fire season runs from the end of July to the end of October;
MINDFUL that frequent burning has serious implications on the environmental degradation to loss of property and life;
COGNISANT that Zimbabwe has received normal to above normal rainfall during the 2016/2017 season;
NOTING that the growth of vegetation countrywide translates to high fuel load with a high probability of veld fire prediction for 2017 season indicates 80% of high to extreme fire risk;
CONCERNED that human activities increase the frequency, extent
and pattern of veld fires:
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon the Executive to:-
- Amend the legislative framework that deals with veld fires so that it provides for stiffer custodial sentences for people who start fires;
- take steps to ensure that court cases on environmental crimes are resolved speedily.
HON. ZINDI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I thought perhaps you were going to respond.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did, people were making a
lot of noise.
HON. ZINDI: Sorry, my apologies.
HON. ZEMURA: I second.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.
Hon. Mudyiwa debated alongside a Power Point Presentation.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Fire, as we know in Zimbabwe, has become a menace, but it is part of a natural process which has some positive roles in the vegetation structure and composition and it also helps recycling some of the needed nutrients contained in old and dead trees. However, my concern is about the frequency of the fire that we are talking about, the veld fires. To those who have not come across veld fires, there is something on the screen to show what a veld fire is. These are blazes of fire that become very wild and in the process, they destroy vast tracts of land, cause destruction and harm to animals and people. The blazes of fire also cause losses.
Frequent burning has implications on carbon stocks and emissions and this also affects the habitat, human health as well as livelihoods. This is where my concern is on veld fires. I am really concerned, particularly this year, 2016/2017 season, where we received plenty of rainfall, normal to above normal as a result of the Tropical Cyclone Dineo. The rains supported the growth of vegetation, which translates to high loads of fuel with a high probability of veld fire outbreaks in the country.
I am sure we are all aware that the fire season starts from end of July to end of October, every year. What we have witnessed in the country is fierce wild fires because of the standing vegetation, hence the need for us as a nation to guard against this menace. I have travelled along our roads, throughout the country and have seen that most of our vegetation is burnt down and there is no vegetation at the moment to talk about.
The fire risk prediction for 2017 indicates that the fire season is generally 80% of high to extreme high risk for the greater part of the country. You can see there is a diagram with the map of Zimbabwe which shows the fire risk. The red spots on the map indicate the extreme risk areas where we expect fire because of the growth of the vegetation in the country.
What I have seen is that most of the causes of veld fires are anthropogenic, which means that they are originating from human activities. 90% of veld fires are caused by human activities, save for only 10% which are natural fires. Some of the causes –
Hon. Members having been speaking on the top of their voices.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Less noise in the House Hon. Members.
HON. MUDYIWA: Some of the causes of veld fires which I have observed are reckless disposal of cigarette stubs, someone may just throw away a cigarette stub, which starts a fire and nobody controls that fire, it goes on to destroy all those vast tracts of land. Some people go out to smoke out for bees during honey harvesting. We also have people who are at bus stops who light up fires because of the cold weather and when the bus comes they just leave the fire there which spreads and goes on and on burning all the vegetation in the area.
Some people start fires during land clearing, particularly in the resettlement areas. We also have some people who go out hunting and they start fires. Some people deliberately start fires, known as arson. There are also fires started by children playing with matches and nobody can really control that fire, it goes out of control. Some people in the rural areas also dispose ashes and leave it there unattended and starts fire which may go on and on burning everything within the vicinity.
The veld fires have impacted greatly on our lives resulting in the loss of livelihoods and income to some people. It has a psychosocial impact, which is associated with fatalities and family bereavement at times. There is loss of biodiversity as well and disturbance of the hydrological balance. The veld fires are currently a significant threat to national economic recovery plans as they go on to destroy the much needed pastures which are necessary for the restocking exercise.
Hon. Members having been making noise.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, less noise in
the House.
HON. MUDYIWA: The veld fires are also in a way affecting our ZIM-ASSET Programme through destroying vast plantations. Food security in the country may also be affected as had been witnessed in the burning of wheat and maize fields including other valuables. Recently, particularly this year, there was a very sad incident where one of our Hon. Senators had a farm burnt and all the maize were burnt and she harvested nothing. This resulted in substantial amount of loss.
Associated with veld fires are loss of property and human lives. We have seen homes and families being destroyed and we cannot underestimate the dangers associated with veld fires. Every year, the
Environmental Management Agency (EMA), launches the Veld Fire
Season Campaign, which is from the end of July to the end of October. In that exercise, they try to bring awareness to the population about the dangers of veld fires, but it seems this has fallen on deaf ears because we have seen these fires burning every now and then in every province where there is vegetation, we have seen these fires burning and destroying our natural habitats.
On the average, the country has been losing over a million hectares annually on vegetation due to these veld fires. The 2016 fire season recorded about 10.4% decrease in hectarage burnt compared to 2015 and 12% decrease in fire incidences. This year, we have seen quite some fires burning large pieces of land. As you can see, these are some of the diagrams or graphs to show how serious these veld fire instances are and the destruction that they have caused. In 2016, they destroyed over 197
335 hectares of vegetation. In 2014, we had the highest which was 1 653 822 hectares of vegetation destroyed.
We move on to the next one which shows the fire incidences from 2012 to 2016 where we have got 2014 with the highest number of fire incidences being recorded at 2575. We move on to the next slide; the essence of my motion is that we are all stakeholders in the dangers caused by veld fires. We have the community, school children and Hon. Members of Parliament and we are affected in one way or the other, when our properties are destroyed, people’s homes are destroyed and we have to fend for these people. We all have got a role to play in stopping this menace of veld fires.
We have pre-suppression measures that we can employ that can be embraced by the community such as training fire fighting, training them to employ fire warning systems whereby whistles or drums are used to warn other people that there is fire which has started so that people can converge and try to extinguish the fire. We can also assist our communities by procuring and servicing fire equipment. I am sure in most of our communities or in the rural areas, we do not have these firefighting equipment and it is high time that we have the firefighting equipment on standby so that in case of fire, we can quickly extinguish the fire.
Each person or institution has a role to play in the fight against veld fires so as to prevent the destruction of the environment as well as loss of life and property. Veld fires cause a lot of destruction and as burning of vegetation continues, it leaves the soil bare and there is no protection. When it rains, the top soil is washed away and this has resulted in siltation of dams in the country. I think we have heard the Minister of Environment, Water and Climate talking about siltation of our dams. Three quarters of our dams are full of sand and they no longer have that capacity to hold the much needed water for our people in the rural areas and for our livestock. So soil erosion is also a result of veld fires.
I have also tried to check whether there is any legislative framework that deals with veld fires. Yes, there is S.I 7, 2007 which talks about the environmental impacts assessment and ecosystem protection regulations as read with the Environmental Management Act [Chapter 20, 2017]. This legislation provides for communities not to leave fires unattended. It also defines the fire season. There should be no starting of fires according to this legislation outside residential or commercial premises during the fire season and there should be adequate veld fire suppression measures. It also provides for communities to investigate and report fire instances to EMA and the police. It is an offence, if we did not know, to deliberately start open fires between the fire seasons which is from 31st July to 31st October every year. It is also an offence to fail to put in place standard fire guards on our farms which are at least 9 metres wide. It is also an offence to pass by or to drive past a fire without stopping to assist in putting out the fire. It is also an offence to fail to report a fire incident within 7 working days. I thought we should remind each other about the veld fire related offences.
The other legislation that we have on veld fires is the Forestry Act [Chapter 19] which provides for fireguard construction, notification before burning and penalties for not informing about the burning or starting of fire. What I have seen is that all these legislations have been enforced but they are not being adhered to. There has been trivialization of environmental issues where environmental offenders normally get suspended sentences; there is no custodial sentence in living memory concerning veld fire offences. Also, we have noticed that farmers do fail to prepare the fireguards and also the court cases concerning fire incidences are taking long to be finalized and sentences have always been fines or suspended sentences and no conviction. Those convicted of starting fires, the sentences are not deterrent enough. So as a result, we have seen an increase in incidences of veld fires in the country. It is because of that Mr. Speaker Sir, that I am calling for a stiffer custodial sentence to all those people who deliberately start fires and those who deliberately ignore fires and just keep on moving without reporting them. So, I am calling for stiffer sentences, preferably custodial sentences for offenders or people who start fires in the country. This is the only way we can try and curb this menace of veld fires in the country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is because of that, that I thought of moving this motion and bring it before Hon. Members so that we can debate on veld fires in the country which is quite a danger which is affecting development, agriculture, destroying vast tracts of land, it has destroyed vegetation and it has destroyed our properties and worse still, it has resulted in loss of lives.
HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the mover of this motion, Hon. Mudyiwa for moving this motion that helps the community. We have a problem in our homes, and our constituencies because of fires that are just left burning property and crops, even burning innocent animals. We have seen a lot of grass, a lot of animals big and small, the small insects that cannot defend themselves being burnt everyday yet they were also created by God to be there.
Our vegetation that makes Zimbabwe a beautiful country is also destroyed everyday by these veld fires. We have also seen a lot of crops, farmers losing their crops because of veld fires. Two months ago, one of our colleagues, Senator Goto lost a whole field of maize. I want to urge our fellow Members to be very cautious about these veld fires that they are put off before they spread. Let us educate our communities in the areas where we live to be very aware and active when they see a veld fire burning without anyone attending to it. We have seen a lot of homes burnt. A lot of people have died, a lot of homes have been destroyed, and properties have been destroyed. If one’s home is burnt, everything there is also burnt. If I had two or three dresses, they are destroyed. Everything gets burnt at the home including the pots, plates, cooking sticks and you will become a very poor person because to buy all those will take a long of time.
So, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to urge Members to educate the communities. The problem is not with us but at our homes; our headmen do not even know that if a fire is started in the village, they must call all villagers to go and assist to put out that fire. If every village would train a fire fighters’ team that will look at every smoke that comes out in the village and put it off; I do not think there can ever be such big fires that destroy hectares and hectares of land.
We have seen that the problem is not with the people outside there but with the legislators. In the constituencies, we must have time to talk about the environment. Let us talk about how we keep our trees. If a tree is burnt for three consecutive years, the tree dries up. If it does so, the vegetation has deteriorated. If grass is burnt every year, the land would be degraded; it would no longer produce anything. Let us help the communities. Let us help EMA, it cannot work on its own but we should assist them.
The Ministry of Environment has concern on a lot of animals like elephants, we are talking of elephants because they are big animals but what of the hare, the tortoise, and the snake that crawls on the grass; who protects and defends them when there is fire. Those things are there for a purpose, they were created for a purpose and not to just die.
I want to urge our Members to have fire fighting teams. I once travelled to a certain country and there were people who were called voluntary fire fighters that were being funded by the Government to start the fire fighting project. Once we encourage our people to start those teams of fire fighting, I think our country will be a beautiful country with good vegetation.
I think EMA has done a lot to protect the environment but it cannot do it alone without the support of the local people. I want all the local people to be supportive of keeping their environment. We must always be aware that vegetation is life; we have our oxygen being prepared by the leaves of the trees. We must always be aware that once we destroy the environment, we will be one of the poorest nations, especially in Africa. Our country will become a desert. We do not want deserts in Zimbabwe but we want it to be a very good and attractive country. However, it cannot be attractive without good vegetation. I think the tree population in Zimbabwe has deteriorated already by tree cutting which is done by our fellow members. So, if we burn the forests, we are encouraging desertification.
We must take note that our forefathers left this country very beautiful. I think that is why Zimbabwe was colonized by whites. They saw that it was a beautiful country. Now, because we are having a bare country without vegetation, who would like to come to Zimbabwe and see a country without vegetation? Tourism is there because the country is beautiful, it has trees and grass. We have big trees like baobab trees but if they are burnt every day, we will remain with nothing. Trees are
life.
Hon. Speaker Sir, I want to talk about how people have lost their lives and children because of veld fires. When big grass burns and there is wind, no one can stop that fire but we must always be aware. When the fires we must be very active and try to stop the fire before it spreads. It will help our people. Last year we heard that in Mashonaland West, a family was burnt trying to put a fire out whilst it was coming to their home. I think if you were the ones who had those relatives, you would
feel pity.
We also have a farm that had a lot of houses that were burnt to ashes and the people remained without anything. No-one is rich in Zimbabwe. If we allow those people to have their property to be burnt, it means that in the whole area, people will remain very poor – a poor nation. We will remain a very poor nation. What about school children who have their parents’ property burnt to nothing – their birth certificates burnt to nothing? I want to urge all the Hon. Members here to be very supportive of this motion because vegetation or the environment is life.
We always boast that we have cattle and we are rich but if there is no grass, the cattle will not have food. The animals in the forest will not have food. If ever they remain, when the fire is burning, all the animals will be burnt to death. We have seen a lot of fires that have been started and failed be controlled burning all the animals that are there. At times, even the cattle are sometimes burnt to ashes. I want to urge my fellow Hon. Members to support the Hon. Member who has put this motion forward to make sure that we become fire fighters. We must be fire fighters because fire does not give us anything but destroys our wealth.
Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would also want to thank the mover and seconder of this motion on veld fires. The issue of veld fires is very painful in the areas we come from and in Zimbabwe. Veld fires have shamed our country because our animals no longer have that beauty on their skins because they are burnt. When your children are burnt by fire, you are really pained. The same applies to the animals in the environment, they are pained after their cubs get burnt by veld fires.
However, I have noticed that we are giving work to the policemen who do not have resources because for you to make a police report, you cannot catch the culprits. Our policemen are having problems in chasing after people but there should be a law which says that when people are caught, they should be brought to book but the law is not there. The culprits are just fined. This is not enough because after paying the fine, the culprit will go back and cause more veld fires. This means that our country will not be attractive to tourists who visit us because they come to see the good environment which has beautiful animals. If we do not have these things, our country will not be attractive. Even the animals will be in trouble. Our cows will starve and die because there will be no grass or trees.
We know that elephants live on leaves but you find that the leaves will not be there. I have heard someone referring to EMA; I do not agree that EMA is educating people enough because it is not engaging the headmen or chiefs in our villages for education. Our headmen do not even know what to do in case of a veld fire. They do not even know in case of a veld fire. EMA allows people to cut trees from their fields but if they come across people carrying firewood to bring and sell in the urban areas, EMA does not prosecute those people. If there was a law that people be prosecuted by transporting firewood, no one would cut down trees. EMA should bring that law into book so that the policemen will have power to prosecute those people. But as it is, there is no law. Even if people are caught by the police, there is no law that will prosecute them.
There is a Member who talked about dams; our dams are silted. We do not have ways to remove the sand which is there. People are now excavating near the dams. I think it is better to construct new dams so that people will benefit from these dams. People are engaging in illegal cultivating. They are ploughing in vleis and this is not allowed. Normally, we say these people are good farmers but they are practising bad farming methods. We want the Government to intervene when people are suffering. The Government is in serious problems but our country is dawned with milk and honey.
I think corruption is also rife in these areas because if we compare our country with other countries like Zambia or Malawi, you find that we are far much better when it comes to minerals. We should all put our heads together and find ways of using those minerals properly because when we see silted dams we leave it like that and we then go on to construct new dams, we will not progress.
EMA normally advises people to make some metres away but I do not think it works. We should just discourage people from river bank cultivation. Tourists come to see those rivers but they see no rivers. There is only sand. Mr. Speaker, people from America or Britain cannot come to see desserts here in Zimbabwe. This country should be beautiful because God gave us a good country which has a lot of resources. We are a blessed country but we are abusing those blessings. I think those thieves should be prosecuted. We should go for the big fish and not prosecute the small fish. If a Member of Parliament (MP) is prosecuted, I think it will give weight but I have never heard an MP who has been jailed - [HON. MEMBERS: Ariko, Kereke!] – It was because of rape but those who steal have never been taken to jail. We are talking about corruption here. We only say that the small fish are the ones who are stealing but I think Members of Parliament should also be prosecuted because all of us have skeletons in our cupboards. We need that enforcement because the President is at pains talking against corruption.
Coming to the issue of firewood, you will find a big truck coming into Harare full of firewood but they are not prosecuted. That is where corruption starts. It does not mean that we should enact laws just to catch the ordinary man but I think the laws should apply even to Members of Parliament and Ministers as well. The law should apply to everyone. We should not put laws in place for others but for everyone.
EMA should come up with laws that are effective and deterrent enough.
Again, coming to the issue of people losing their homes through veldt fires, in Hurungwe East Constituency, I have 76 houses that were destroyed by fire. In Pote, four houses were burnt. In Chikuti, one kitchen was burnt. In Chirariro, 23 houses were burnt and in Masikati, nine houses were burnt. People are losing important documents such as birth certificates and national identity cards including clothing as well. I am of the view that we should pass laws that have stiffer sentences so that when the perpetrators are caught and prosecuted, they will not come back.
As Hon. Members, we should teach people in our constituencies with the help of headmen, councillors and EMA as well. EMA should not concentrate their educational campaigns in urban areas only, but should conduct awareness programmes in rural areas. They should be serious. They should be aggressive in their campaigns so that the burden is not left to police officers alone who also lack resources.
As you all know, most police stations in the rural areas do not have cars as compared to those in the urban centres. What we see in the rural areas are policemen in uniforms only. We urge the Government to allocate police vehicles to rural areas in order to help police combat veldt fires. Veldt fires are a common place in rural areas because of thick vegetation. So, I want to thank the Hon. Member who moved the motion.
*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: I want to thank your Mr. Speaker
for affording me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion which was moved by Hon. Mudyiwa which touches all of us because we stay where there are forests. She has touched on a number of things and I am going to touch on a few.
What she talked about is that when we start veldt fires, we do not only destroy the lives of people but also the lives of animals because our health is also dependant on the vegetation. Veldt fires do not only destroy lives but also affect climate change which we are seeing affecting us. As you can see, that is why we have all those protocols on climate change. This is as a result of those veldt fires which affect the ozone layer where we get our oxygen from.
When people are hunting for mice, they are indirectly depleting the ozone layer because the fires that burn produce smoke that is detrimental to the existence of the ozone layer. When the ozone layer is depleted and there is a lot of carbon, our health system becomes weak. Those in the know say that when we burn the forests the fumes, that are produced go into the air and in turn, this affects climate change and we will not get enough rains. It also changes the climate and then we end up having floods and then it will affect our farming even our livelihood. If we do not have enough rains, even the economy of the country is affected. When we engage in veldt fires, it may seem like a favourite pastime but the practice has far reaching consequences.
I think we should help each other on how to prevent veldt fires by making fire guards. As Hon. Members in our constituencies, before the onset of the fire season, we should sit down with our people and educate them on the negative effects of engaging in veldt fires. This practice should cascade to our headmen and chiefs that once a week or once a month, they should educate the people by holding meetings concerning the negative effects of veldt fires.
I want to encourage the Government to come up with stiffer penalties on would-be offenders so that we can protect our environment.
If we burn the forests, our animals will die, our forests will deplete and so, there is need to protect living things that depend on the ecosystem. The headmen and chiefs should be given powers to preside over cases of veldt fires and they should have the power to prescribe penalties.
In Zimbabwe, we are happy because we have big farms. Our challenge is that we cannot look after our farms. All our fields should be fenced. Each and every field should have a fireguard as protection from the fire but we are not doing that. Our fields have a lot of grass in them because we are not farming. We heard that one of our Hon. Members lost a field which had maize due to veldt fires. We need to remove tall grass from our fields and erect fireguards so that we can protect our harvest. If we do not do so, when there is a break out of fire it will burn everything including cattle kraals and homesteads. So, it is very important that we look after our soil very well. Let us look after our fields well. Let us have fireguards. Let us also erect fences so that it will help our forests in the future. I thank you.
*HON. ZINDI: I have stood up to support this debate which is before us. I will focus mainly on education in terms of eradicating the effects of veld fires. Yes, we are being educated in the western knowledge on the issues of protecting our areas but through my investigations – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, may I please be protected from those Hon. Members. They are disrupting my debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Order,
order, Hon. Members may we please have less noise in the House.
HON. ZINDI: If they wish, they can leave the House and continue with their conversation outside. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may continue with your
debate Hon. Zindi.
*HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me the opportunity to be heard clearly. I was saying we do not refuse being imparted with western knowledge because this is being done in order to enhance our knowledge.
What surprises me is, in integrating that western knowledge, we are throwing away our African knowledge in the bin. I am saying that because when it comes to protecting our environment, there are ways that we grew up being educated on. For example, if you go to the well with a dirty tin that has been put on the fire and is covered in soot, we were told that snakes would come out of the well. This was all in an effort to preserve our African culture and to protect our surroundings hence you knew that you could not take a dirty container to the well. This meant that taking a dirty container, covered in soot, put it in the well, the water would become dirty and people would not have access to clean water because water should always be clean.
We were also taught which trees to cut and not cut. For example, the muunze tree, muunze because it takes a long time to grow and provides ample shade and these are the trees that we normally find in mountainous places. The tree also produces good firewood but we were told that it was sacred and should not be cut. In some areas, the assumption was that there is a snake that lives in the bark called a garukuni. So if you cut down the tree then you would be taking the snake home with you. The garakuni snake resembles the muunze tree in appearance hence it is difficult to tell them apart and these things used to happen. This was done in order to instill fear in people and preserve our forestry by not cutting down trees indiscriminately. That culture was very good yet we threw it away and did not integrate it with the western knowledge.
We are prioritising western knowledge at the expense of our indigenous knowledge. I want to buttress the point that indigenous knowledge should always be regarded because it works better than the western knowledge. There are practical things that happen and I have already given an example of cutting down of the muunze tree and carrying it together with a snake and that would frighten people.
Mr. Speaker, we should also know that in our lives as Africans, we believe in our ancestors hence if we embrace that knowledge in that aspect it will help us. For example, we visit the apostolic faith healers in search of prayers that tell us what happens in our daily lives. This is why you see people spending their time visiting these prophets weekly. These prophets now have knowledge of that and are maximizing on that in deceiving people. Hence people do not leave their shrines because they are being told of things that happen on daily basis in conjunction with our Africans beliefs that our lives are conjoined with our ancestors. This is what the prophets will say, hence if we blend the two cultures, it will help us to preserve our surroundings. This is the main issue that I stood up to talk about.
I also want to talk on the issue of fireguards which was mentioned by Hon. Chinanzvavana. I am in support of fireguards but my challenge is that in the resettlements, many new farmers have put up fireguards but what is happening is, former farm workers who used to work for the white farmers are sabotaging our efforts. They will start a fire right in the middle of the field and the whole farm is ablaze thus rendering the fireguard useless, this has happened to me three times. You ensure that you part with your money to have a timeous fireguard in place but because our minds are still colonized, we do not believe that the land now belongs to the blacks. It is us the blacks who are being used to go and start fires on other people’s farms, sabotaging their efforts.
So, it also needs people to be enlightened in order to have decolonised mindsets. People should be made to understand that this land reform happened. Blacks should support each other and not be used as tools of destruction. These are the same people who run to the press claiming that the new farmers are failing to manage the farms and are only good at trapping mice. This is all sabotage to spearhead their agenda that the land reform should not have taken place. They will now be spicing their stories so that they are acceptable to the world.
It is unfortunate that as newly resettled farmers, we do not have forums to discuss the various challenges that we encounter. They do not have a chance to sit together and table all these to say that we have fire guards, but there are people who come and burn our fields at night when we are asleep. So, I want this to be known, that people are erecting fire guards. With these few words, I want to say thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I just have a few
issues to raise pertaining to veld fires. Firstly, let me commend the Hon. Member for bringing this very important and pertinent motion about veld fires. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, not many of us appreciate the importance of this motion, especially this time of the year. I can see by the attitude we are taking towards this kind of debate, quite clearly, not all of us are very interested.
Mr. Speaker, let me indicate from the onset that, one of the major problems of veld fires, is not that there are no laws, but it is mainly because of our attitude as residents of this country towards veld fires. Secondly, it is the attitude of the law enforcement agents, the police officers towards veld fires, I will indicate why I am saying this. Let me also say that I do not agree with the figures that are always given that year in-year out, we lose about 1million hectares of land to veld fires. That is an understatement, because Zimbabwe is about 49 million hectares and if you fly over the country towards the beginning of the rainy season, you will not see one percent of the country burning, it is usually more than half and more than half of 45 million cannot be 1 million. So, those figures need to be revised and the correct statistics must be given to the nation. Maybe people will be able to understand the importance of these veld fires.
Let us look at it historically Mr. Speaker. When we were growing up, if fire started, within 30 minutes, the ancient British South African
Police (BSAP) Jeep would be immediately seen within your homestead. Once it approached, everyone would be mobilised to go and put off that fire, they would make sure they check who caused the fire and they would come up with the culprit immediately. However, do you see that happening in our modern Zimbabwe? Just at a road block, there will be fire burning and police officers will be busy concentrating on traffic as if they do not know that there is a law about veld fires and stopping it. Mr. Speaker, the laws about veld fires are very thorough, if you look at the Veld Fire Act, it is one of the best laws. Causing a fire, failing to stop a burning fire, failing to warn people before one can start
a fire and even refusing to help put off a fire are all forms of crime. However, if you look at those laws, I do not remember or reading about somebody who has been arrested and charged for that. People start off fires willy-nilly, they drive past burning fires and nobody is made to stop and put off a fire.
At one time I tried it in my Constituency, there was a fire, I stopped and people were running away instead of trying to assist. It looks like people are not aware of these laws. If there are those who are aware, it could be the old people who could have lived during the BSAP because the BSAP enforced these laws. However, in the modern Zimbabwe, nobody cares about a fire starting or even putting it off. It looks like the ZRP training manual does not cover veld fires, because if you come across a fire, the police officers will be there and they do not seem to give a damn.
Our attitude as African Zimbabweans living near these veld fires – at one time I was driving past Mvuma Mr. Speaker, there was a raging fire on both sides of the road and we were afraid to cross. We stopped and asked why there was so much fire, they responded to say; Aah mudhara tirikupisa zvishambwe, with my poor Shona language, I was not sure what zvishambwe was, when I inquired, I heard it is ticks.
Sometimes people start off fires out of ignorance to say ‘we are burning the eggs of ticks.’ As indicated here by some people, sometimes people start off veld fires just to catch mice, and it is also true that there could be sabotage as indicated by Hon. Zindi.
However, sometimes fires are started for very frivolous and flimsy reasons which are nothing to talk about even by the senior people. When these fires are started Mr. Speaker, the fire will rage on. It will be on a farm, the farm belongs to an individual, and the farmer is there with workers, they will not make an effort to put off the fire. Each time I pass through a burning and raging veld fire, I have never seen efforts to try and put off the fire. If it happens, I have never come across it myself. You just drive through and fires are burning and people are there watching. The owner of the farm will be there and does nothing in terms of making an effort to put off the fire. I think our attitude towards fire as indigenous Zimbabweans is very low. Maybe it is because people do not seem to understand the effects of fires until somebody is killed. We do not seem to appreciate the importance of the environment. Our attitude needs to change a bit.
The other problem Mr. Speaker is EMA itself; we have a fire agency in the form of EMA and environmental agency. We rarely see them near a fire. Even if it is in the towns, in the rural areas we say maybe they do not have transport to get to the raging fires. In towns, there will be fire burning within the precincts of an urban area and you will not see an EMA official trying to mobilise people to put off the fire, or even bring in equipment. If the fire agents from the City Council do not come, EMA will be nowhere to be seen.
So, this is a serious problem about enforcement which, as
Government, we must seriously look at on whether we really need EMA. If we need it, is it really serving its purpose in terms of protecting the environment? The police, we could say maybe they are overwhelmed but EMA, this is their primary responsibility to look after the environment. I think as a starting point Mr. Speaker, we must put all our efforts to enforce the existing laws. I see that the motion is requiring or expecting us to put stringent measures. The measures or laws about veld fires are very thorough and adequate. What is lacking is enforcement by the law enforcement agents and particularly and explicitly the Zimbabwe
Republic Police and EMA, which is in charge of this Act. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to raise those issues. Thank you very much.
*HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this
opportunity to debate on this pertinent issue. Firstly, I understand this because when I was a Member of Parliament for Hurungwe West, it is the worst in the country in terms of fires. As the Chairman of
Mashonaland West Province, it was worst, I was the Chairman of the Portfolio Committee on Education Sport and Culture. Seized with that, especially in education, Mashonaland West in the country is the worst, Hurungwe West is the worst and in Norton and Chegutu, it is the worst when it comes to fires and I have the statistics from NSSA.
As I was coming from Kent Farm, I came across a fire and there were gum trees, you do not know what to do because even if you stop, you will be endangering your life and so you are forced to keep on driving. However, what I think is important is education. I think Hon.
Zindi talked about sabotage, which is caused by the former white employees, but the blacks who took over the farms, ourselves, the farm owners are not educating our people on these issues. We can talk about sabotage but what are we doing as farmers. If you look at this, I am happy that the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement is here. The people who are causing this are illegal settlers who do not even have offer letters. When it comes to issues of land reform, if you go to the compounds and try to find information of the owner, it is not available. People just stay there and are not gainfully employed. The issue of unemployment is also important to consider because if people are not employed, it is difficult to control them because they do anything to survive. As you can see, EMA does not have the capacity to hold sensitisation to everyone but as Members of Parliament, Councillors, et cetera, we must help in sensitising the community. EMA will sensitise us and we in turn sensitize the community. I invited EMA officials in Norton. I was very disappointed that EMA called for a workshop in Mashonaland West but I was the only Member of Parliament who attended and this hurt me. So, the input of Members of Parliament is very important. When they get information, they will cascade it to their constituencies.
The influence of a Member of Parliament in a constituency is not underestimated but we are not doing our work properly. Where work is being done, you can see, if you look at Matabeleland there are forests there. Why is this happening in Mashonaland West? In Matabeleland, you do not get stories of veld fires. The people of Matabeleland respect who they are and what they value because they know how to look after their forests. They engage in cattle ranching so they go all the way to protect their forests and grazing areas. So, I think we should learn from these other provinces.
I think there should be an exchange so that people from here can go and stay in Matabeleland. I think provincial affairs Ministers should engage and help each other on this issue. Yes, we can come up with many laws, strong laws, we can take people into prisons but jails are there for rehabilitation and we cannot take jails as a way of educating people. We should channel our resources to educate people rather than sending them to jail. As Legislators, how far have we gone? The Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe has given us stickers to conscientise us, do not drink beer whilst you are driving. Why cannot
EMA do the same before the grass has been burnt? That will help us? You know the Hon. Vice President, the Late John Nkomo, he always said ‘peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us’. So, we must have a moto in the country.
I have also seen that EMA helps because in my constituency, there are others who are being given jobs, they will say come with your tractors then you make hay-bales ….
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA):
Order, you have linguistic competence in your mother language Hon.
Mliswa, please do not code switch.
*HON. MLISWA: EMA has got a lot of jobs which will help us to protect our environment. One of them is that you bring your tractor and then you make hay-bales. That grass is sold in Matebeleland where there are a lot of cattle and the market is there. Women know how to bale it properly and if you engage them, they will do it for you. People who keep bees for honey do not start fires because it is their source of living. Those programmes are the ones which are being spearheaded by EMA. If you approach EMA, they are at liberty to give out information and education. We should visit schools, headmen and chiefs who will help us in spreading the information. You must work with headmen and chiefs because in the rural areas is where we have headmen and chiefs. Are they included in these programmes? If they are included in other programmes of giving out rice and mealie meal, why are they not included in the control of veld fires? I think we should engage them. It looks like they are only looked for when it comes to the distribution of rice and mealie meal.
I think if you engage them, it will really help us when they distribute rice and maize they will teach the people about veld fires. Rice and maize will help in bringing people together then the EMA officials will do the sensitisation, hence the need for chiefs involvement.
I want to thank Hon. Mudyiwa who has brought this motion. It is a good motion and it touches on everyone and we have to support it. What Hon. Gabbuza said is that we do not care, we have come to represent the people and we must continue in this spirit. All members should contribute because it touches on all of us because if we do not look after the things that we have been blessed with, I think we will be in trouble. So, I want to thank them for this motion because it is very good and it touches on everyone.
*HON. MANGWENDE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to
thank Hon. Mudyiwa for the motion that she has raised on veld fires.
What I am seeing is that they should be an awareness campaign. Wherever people gather for other programmes in the constituencies, the EMA people should come and sensitise people about veld fires. However, the issue of fire guards which Hon. Zindi has talked about, I finished harvesting like today and the next day the whole field was on fire. We have a Forestry Commission in Highlands, Harare and you know that forestry is where we get our seedlings, but within hours that forestry was down. We do not know where the fire came from. So, I am urging that our police force should do their part, have cars to patrol.
EMA leave people ferrying firewood in Harare yet there are no forests in Harare so where does the firewood come from. Every constituency in Harare there is a marketplace for fire wood, EMA should do its job properly otherwise we will end up thinking that the top management at EMA are the ones authorizing this illegal market of firewood. If you are coming from a farm and you have just a bundle of firewood, EMA will stop you and pay a fine but where are those big logs of firewood coming from in Harare?
The tobacco farmers also take part in the illegal cutting down of trees. Some of us have fields which have trees and you will find your trees cut down by tobacco farmers. If you report the matter to the police, no one is prosecuted, so I think those tobacco farmers should be investigated on how they are treating their tobacco. If anyone is caught starting a fire, that person should sentenced because if two people are sentenced, others will not engage in starting fires. When we were travelling from Kadoma we noticed that all the forests along that road were on fire. So I think people should be given stiffer sentences. I thank you.
+HON. G.M. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I want to add my voice on the motion that was brought by the Hon. Member. When we grew up we did not experience any occasion whereby we would just see veld fires in a community. It was not a usual scene but it is a common thing nowadays maybe it is because of mixture of different cultures.
I heard someone saying some of the people claim that they start veld fires because they will be looking for mice. We now have such people even in our own farms. I once received a call that my farm where I am doing cattle ranching was on fire. What I saw there, I had not seen it ever since I was born, the veld fire was very serious and I was so terrified. I had to let my farm get burnt to ashes, up until today, I do not even know who started that veld fire. This shows that the mixture of different cultures bring such acts that we do not even how to handle as a community.
With this I want to emphasise on the motion that was brought by Hon. Mudyiwa that it is important that as a nation we should come up with laws, or the ones that exist should be enforced so that we can avoid such veld fires. Like I said, when we growing up we knew that it was a taboo to start a veld fire, one would only start fire when cooking. I remember, way back there was a time when our house got burnt and everyone in the family was so saddened as if there was death in the family. This was something that was not usual, that is why people reacted that way. It was not usual that someone would just start a veld fire; we knew that when we saw such a scene, something would have gone wrong.
However, now you will find veld fires anywhere whether in the farm or along the road side. This is something that we need to take note of. As Africans we should know that since we have taken our land and we own farms, are really taking these things seriously or we took the farms so that we can claim that we own something in life. Some of the people who start veld fires is because they will be looking for honey and they leave the fire burning which then starts veld fires.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we heard that the laws are there, why are those laws not being enforced. It is shocking that as a nation, maybe compared to other countries, we have the laws but they are not being enforced. Those who are supposed to be enforcing the laws are they really trustworthy? As has been alluded to earlier on that the policeman would come and watch a veld fire and will not even bother to take any action. Therefore, we need to know whether there is a problem that they encounter when they try to enforce the laws which will then make to just watch when there is a veld fire and not take any action. Is this how we want to run or is this how the nation is being run? Is this the way of living that we want as a nation? I therefore pose a question as to what else is going to happen in this country when we just watch things going wrong like that?
I want to take this opportunity to encourage the organisation like
EMA that it is important to start the outreach programmes and go right round the communities, talking to the people, especially the people from Matebeleland. People should not look down upon the people from Matebeleland and think that we do not have anything to do with veld fires. We realise we have encounter veld fires even along the road sides or in the farms. Most of the things that they used to think only happen in
Mashonaland also happen in Matabeleland.
I also want to add a point on what Hon. Mliswa said where he mentioned that there are meetings that were once held to encourage people or teach them on veld fires. We also want such meetings from our provinces. In my constituency, someone was once arrested because of starting the veld fires. When the police man phoned me, I encouraged them to take the person and arrest him until the EMA had come. The person was then charged on the offence of causing veld fires. Therefore for us as leaders, it is not enough for us to come and debate in
Parliament and there is no action that we take in our communities.
I would like to urge this House that those fires are very dangerous because they degrade the soils and they destroy our nation in terms of vegetation. Gone are the days whereby we used to say there is a specific area where we would start veld fires in order for the grass to grow properly. I think it is important for us to teach our community that such days are no longer there and we should urge, encourage and also teach our communities that it is important to conserve our vegetation. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. NKATAZO: I would like to thank the mover of this motion Hon. Mudyiwa, seconded by Hon. Zemura concerning veld fires which are affecting our fields, homesteads and almost everywhere. I think this has come late. If Hon. Mudyiwa had known, she whould have brought her motion before people started putting on fires.
As we speak right now, my farm was burnt. The people burnt my field because they wanted to pick maize. After setting fire, they go into the fire, take the burnt maize and use it for mealie meal. Sometimes for these fires to break out, it is not a failure to put them out. You can put fireguards as per the requirement but because some people just want to burn the field in order to benefit, they will just do it. From the time when people started farming, no one would start fires but when we got into the farms, there is now no end to fires. Animals are dying.
We now, have Command Livestock, we do not know what these cattle are going to feed on. We are getting into cattle ranging because we want to get meat. Even in Bulawayo, there are places which are not burnt but it is just here and there. All over the country, there are areas where people are engaging in starting veld fires. I think the people who start veld fires are being paid for this activity. They will then say that people have failed. The stocks that cattle are supposed to feed on are being burnt. There is an area that has been left where there is grass – people went to harvest that grass. After they had bundled that grass, that same night, the stacks of grass were burnt after people had spent two days cutting grass to feed cattle.
I think EMA has failed. I do not think they can control veld fires. It is out of control. Even the fines that they charge, whether they are paid or not, they are not deterrent. Every year, veld fires are erupting. I come from a rural constituency, the headmen and chiefs always meet people and talk about veld fires. People who commit the crimes are made to pay fines but it is not helping at all. They keep on starting fires. We do not know how to control this. I think there should be stiffer penalty or a mandatory jail sentence of ten years. This may probably deter people from starting fires. Ten years is too long for someone to be
in jail.
In the rural areas, we used to thatch huts with gum tree poles but we are no longer doing that because the gum trees are not growing. People in the rural areas are no longer using gum poles because once they are planted, they get burnt. We do not know where the problem is really. We cannot say that there is a better place. What we can say is that we have to put our heads together so that we come up with solutions.
Three children who were coming from school were burnt beyond recognition during the eruption of these veld fires. They were suffocated by the smoke after they thought that they would beat the fire. They did not know that if they get to the centre of the smoke, they will be choked by the smoke. They were all choked and confused in the fire, thus they were burnt and died. I do not know anyone who would be happy to see a child who has his or her life cut short. Probably, that child was going to be a doctor or an Hon. Member of Parliament but he or she died because of careless people who start fires.
If you are have not come across a veld fire, you will not understand. The fires that are started in farms are very difficult to put off. Cyprus trees will burn like paraffin when fires have been started. The grass on farms is very big. When there is a fire, we run away and leave our homes. Fires will be put out naturally by the will of God.
I would like to thank Hon. Mudyiwa for raising this motion though it came late. I think we should come together and do away with these veld fires. We no longer have wild animals in the environment. When we went to the farms, there were wild animals there, for example wild bucks and snakes but now there is nothing left. At times you can see snakes moving to your homestead and you run away they will also be running away from the fire. Every animal gets affected. It is not about people alone. If you start a fire, you have started it for other people and animals as well. No one benefits from that.
Hon. Mudyiwa, I would like to thank you for that motion and I hope everybody will take heed of it. I think EMA and the Ministry should do something in order to curb veld fires. They should provide enough resources for the people who come to attend these veld fires. People who come to attend veld fires at the moment are complaining that they do not have transport. The Ministry should give them transport so that they do their work properly. I thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI, seconded by HON. N. NDLOVU, the House adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 4th October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM CABINET MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have received the following names of Hon. Ministers who have sought leave of Parliament: Hon. Dr. Made;
Hon. S. Mbengegwi; Hon. Dr. Gandawa; Hon. Prof. Moyo; Hon. Dr.
Mlambo; Hon. Eng. Madanha; Hon. Dr. Sekeramayi; Hon. Dr.
Mushohwe and Hon. Mbwembwe.
Any other apologies that will come through the Papers Office will be recorded accordingly. I have asked the staff to record the names of all Hon. Ministers and their Deputies who are absent without leave.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege
Section 68. I bring to the House a message from the people of Chegutu West in particular to the issuance of the registration that is currently going on. They bring to you Mr. Speaker, their appreciation...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sorry, that can come through debate or question.
HON. NDUNA: But the point exactly I have not made Mr.
Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is not provided for in the Standing
Orders.
HON. GONESE: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have not finished with Hon. Nduna. You get the point Hon. Nduna?
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, would you want to hear my point
before I go...
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no. You said you have a message,
we are not entertaining that.
HON. NDUNA: I did not get you clearly Mr. Speaker Sir, if you can come again.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Standing Rules and Order do not allow us to give messages from our constituencies. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: May you then indulge me in asking as a question of policy?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sit down. Order, the other name that has just come in seeking leave of absence is Hon. Chikwinya.
HON. GONESE: I really welcome your directive that the Clerk of Parliament should record the names of all those Ministers who are absent without leave. However Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, 20th
September 2017, which is two weeks ago in this very same august House, and I want to refer to the Hansard of that day on Wednesday 20th September 2017 when we also raised a similar matter regarding Hon.
Ministers who have not been complying with the Standing Rules and Orders in the sense that they have not been seeking leave and you gave a ruling Mr. Speaker, that you would ask and I will read it. You actually said, “I will ask the Clerk of Parliament to draw up the list and from there the list would be brought into the House and the House will determine the way forward in terms of our Standing Orders”. That was two weeks ago on Wednesday, 20th of September 2017.
Up to now, the Administration of Parliament have not furnished us with the list of those Hon. Members who were absent without leave and I would have expected that by now, there has been ample time for the administration to provide the necessary information so that due process would then follow. That is why I am rising to say it becomes pointless if each and every time that this matter arises…
THE HON. SPEAKER: You have made your point Hon. Member. The list was prepared. Unfortunately, you did not ask for it last week and that list had a letter attached to all Ministers quoting the
Standing Rules and Orders, quoting the Constitution, quoting what His
Excellency the President said. We said in that letter, that was the last warning. So, any Hon. Minister who is absent today is going to be charged accordingly in terms of the Standing Rules and Orders.
HON. CHASI: My question goes to the Hon. Minister responsible for the welfare of war veterans. I would like to check from the Hon. Minister where we are with regards to the specific benefits that now accrue to the war veterans and whether in fact during this Session, we are going to see a Bill being presented to Parliament in connection therewith and if not, when we can expect to see that Bill being presented to Parliament.
THE MINISTER OF WELFARE SERVICES FOR WAR,
VETERANS, WAR COLLABORATORS, FORMER POLITICAL DETAINEES AND RESTRICTEES (HON. T. J. DUBE): I wish to
appreciate the question that has just been raised. I think this question is rather upside down. He should first start off by asking when the Bill to align the law to the Constitution will be completed and then we can go to the second part of his question.
As I speak now, the Act is already in Cabinet. I think any day from now it will go through Cabinet and come to Parliament. I am almost certain that it should come in within the next few weeks or so. The other question about the benefits of the war veterans was not quite clear to me which benefits the Hon. Member is asking about because all those who are entitled to pensions are getting their pensions accordingly. All those who are supposed to get their benefits for compensation which they sustained through incapacitation during the war are getting those benefits. I am not certain what benefits he is talking of. I thank you.
HON. CHASI: If the Hon. Minister does not mind, then he can give an indication of what benefits are indicated in the proposed Bill. I would have thought then that if he says that the Bill is coming to
Parliament then he does not want to preempt what is contained in the Bill but if he does not mind, then he may want to give us an indication of the proposals.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister asked for
clarification, what benefits are you talking about. So, clarify so that the Hon. Minister can answer accordingly.
HON. CHASI: This is precisely why I had couched my question in the manner that I did to say, what are the proposed benefits that it is intended to give to the war veterans in view of the fact that the Bill is not yet in the hands of Parliament? Now that he says that the Bill is coming to Parliament, if he is so minded, he can indicate to us what the proposals are that are contained in the Bill.
HON. T. J. DUBE: As I have said, I will be preempting the whole situation if I started discussing the benefits which will be brought into this august House for discussion. I think we have to wait until this Bill comes to Parliament, then we can actually do justice to it.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. When one Hon. Member has been recognized, the others sit down immediately. Do not remain standing.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. I want to know what Government policy is with regards to local authorities that hire a creature called Wellcash Debt Collectors to charge residents outrageous interests when collecting their debts, especially in view of the fact that people think that it is not lawfully registered. Women out there are facing challenges of losing their houses because of Wellcash. *THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker for the question that the Hon. Member asked concerning Wellcash. I am very happy that my friends on my right, the ones who run the City of Harare – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Khumalo please. Yes,
Hon. Member.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. It is very
surprising that when we are in this House, we will all be asking questions directed to our Ministers so that we get direction and clarifications back to our constituents. We expect, the Ministers, when responding to questions not to do so on a partisan basis, they should respect us as Members of Parliament. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon Member. The Hon.
Member that I recognised, if you are speaking in Shona or any other vernacular language, stick to it. – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Ya chipedzisa nechirungu zvakanaka. Wanga uchitaura uchimiksa, chitaura zvakanaka. Use one language only!] – Hon. Zwizwai, I will send you out now.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was
saying just as Hon. Nyamupinga posed her question, we all do the same on behalf of our constituencies. We expect Hon. Ministers to respond to our questions with respect so that we take rich responses to our constituencies.
We do not expect an Hon. Minister to behave as if he is addressing a rally or down-playing the other party, before responding to a question, especially a party that has not posed the question. He should be direct in his response to the person who posed the question because we also have questions pertaining to that.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and also
Hon. Nyamupinga for such a pertinent question concerning what our councils have done in engaging Wellcash to get their outstanding debts.
Yes, many of our councils are not able to get their outstanding debts so they are looking at ways of claiming the outstanding debts in order for the councils to function. I am hearing that people are complaining of ill-treatment by these debt collectors.
We are seized with that matter in Budiriro and other areas and it is very painful to the people. I am going to investigate that issue. Thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker
Sir, my supplementary to the Hon. Minister Kasukuwere has to do with the legality of this initiative, considering the fact that we have strict parameters within which this kind of a thing has to work.
I am saying this because just yesterday, I had a meeting with my constituents and they raised that – this I got through the Harare
Residents Trust. There was $700 million which was owed by residents in Harare and I am told that the arrangement between Wellcash and the various companies – it is not just the city council by the way, even hospitals in Bulawayo and everywhere. Wellcash seems to be everywhere but the arrangement is that there is a 10% benefit by the debt collectors, meaning that where there is $700 million they are going to get $70 million. Is this legal? Have you also investigated as a responsible Minister to protect the ordinary people who are exposed to the vagaries of these very dangerous parasitic institutions – that is the question Hon. Speaker Sir.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir,
I want to thank the Hon. Member for a very straightforward question in relation to whether it is legal or not.
I believe first and foremost that debt collection is legalised in our country, if you borrow, you have got to pay back. However, we now have to look at the contract – what does it entail on each party? I think what the Hon. Member basically is talking about the collection amounts, the 10% that is due to Wellcash. I am very happy that it has also been raised by an Hon. learned colleague who I think is in the right place to also assist us especially as he represents the people and the Parliament in terms of interfacing with the local authority. The decision was made by the local authority. It was also as a result of inability to collect its funds and they decided, therefore, to bring on board Wellcash.
In the first instance, they actually pulled them out and then brought them back. So we have got to interrogate this matter but I want to deal with this matter holistically – that is why I said I will look at it and at the right time, perhaps issue a Ministerial Statement to Parliament on the matter. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon. Minister when councils are
formulating their budgets …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, you do not
address the Hon. Minister. You address the Chair.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
supplementary question is when councils are crafting their budgets, they come to you for guidance and approval. Now pertaining to Wellcash, did you permit them to continue on their own without your intervention
– because there is no budget that is passed without your Ministry’s approval?
What has gone wrong to allow councils, yes councils may be in the hands of the opposition or the ruling party. We want you, as Minister, to control these stupid things.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I would
like to thank Hon. Chinotimba pertaining the need to deal with this stupid thing expeditiously.
Firstly, when we accept council budgets, they would have been crafted after consultation with the public. As I am speaking, our councillors are in a meeting with residents so that they agree. Normally, they come up with an agreement that this is how much they should pay. I think what we should agree on is that we should pay our dues and if we cannot, we should come up with a payment plan. When I accept the
Council Budgets, I agree because I know it is not 100% correct but what I want to plead with this House is that we should convince our people to help councils. However, concerning Wellcash, I am going to investigate and look for better ways of dealing with debts so that people will not be affected. Thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. This issue of Wellcash, I got sight of papers in Chegutu and we united as Chegutu community and barred Wellcash from coming to Chegutu. However, what I want to ask is am I out of the law for barring Wellcash to get into Chegutu to include other debt collectors. Am I at loggerheads with the law because I have said that people in Chegutu should not entertain Wellcash?
HON. KASUKUWERE: I want to thank you Mr. Speaker. Our Hon. M. P from Chegutu is asking whether what he is doing is against the law or committing a crime. If he is aware that whatever he is doing is above board, there is no problem. What we are talking about is in Chegutu and he said that they sat down as Chegutu residents and agreed on the way forward. What I do not know is what is actually happening in Chegutu. If they do not engage in any criminal activities, they are not against the law.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you want a point of clarification? *HON. NDUNA: Yes Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, after sitting down with the people of Chegutu, after realising how the orphans and widows were being harassed by these debt collectors who were selling off their property – these people did not have any court orders, so we said without any court orders, they should not be allowed to enter Chegutu. United as we are, we said that people who do not have court orders should not be allowed to come to Chegutu. Am I against the law because of what the people of Chegutu unanimously said?
*HON. KASUKUWERE: I want to thank you Mr. Speaker once
again. What he is saying is now clear. If people do not have court orders to sell off people’s property, they are not allowed to do that and that is clear. For them to sit down and come up with unity, it is not a crime but if that person is found to be in debt, there is a Government law which provides that if people are in debt, they should pay.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. I want to know Government policy on the elderly and those who have retired and were getting pensions from NSSA that they are now supposed to be on BVR. Those who did not register are about 17 000 and it means they are not getting their pensions. I want to find out what Government policy is because it looks like we have now put people under debt.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir for affording me this opportunity to respond to this pertinent question. The issue at hand is that people who were getting their pensions from NSSA, we know that some of them are dead and some may be ghost pensioners. Moving with time, we are engaging into biometrics so that with time, everyone who gets their pension from
NSSA is registered.
For the past nine months there was the exercise that we were doing of allowing people to register and outreach committees were going out and even to the media, educating people that by the 30th of September, all the people should have been registered. So far, over 170 000 people have registered. Last week when we closed the programme, there were 27 000 outstanding. By the beginning of this week, the number has reduced to 17 000, which means that people are still registering. What is at stake here is that we should inform people so that they register. NSSA cannot pay ghost pensioners, those who are non-existent. So, it is up to us to ensure that anyone who does not get their money in October should come back and get registered so that we see their finger prints and eyes because we want to curb corruption.
We are not saying we are closed but we have given them a cutoff point of the 30th September but it is up to them when they do not get their money, to approach us. We are open and it is also open to existing members who are contributing but those who are getting pensions and have not registered, with effect from 30 September, if they will not get their pensions this month. However, if you are not registered biometrically by the end of October, you are not getting your money and there is no going back. We know that there are people who are getting money of the deceased people, so we want people to come and register. As legislators, we represent people, let us go and explain and encourage them to go and register. If they do not register, we are not going to give them their pensions. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My
follow up question to the Hon. Minister is whether in view of the challenges that we have in terms of information dissemination, particularly in remote areas, in rural areas and in areas where there is no access to the electronic media; is the Hon. Minister satisfied that sufficient information has been disseminated to all the people in such a way that undue hardship is not going to be caused – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, that group there, you must respect your Chief Whip.
HON. GONESE: Is the Hon. Minister satisfied that enough dissemination has been done to ensure that everyone has been able to receive this information so that undue hardship is not going to ensue on innocent souls who may not have got the information but who will suddenly find themselves without pensions with effect from the beginning of this month as she has already indicated that the cutoff date was the 30th September.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you
Hon. Gonese. We have done our best to ensure that communication is disseminated. All our pensioners collect their monthly pension from somewhere...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, please address the Chair.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Mr. Speaker Sir, we have done our best to
ensure that the information is disseminated to all members of the public and we are also aware they receive their pensions from somewhere. If they do not get it by the end of this month, surely they will complain and as I have said we are still registering but we need to have a cutoff point. For 9 months, we have been advertising, so we need a cutoff point and any people who are not registered will come forward...
Hon. Dokora having walked out of the House – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Dzoka iwe, akadya mbudzi.] – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MUPFUMIRA: We all represent people in our
constituencies; it is also up to us to make sure that we inform our constituencies. Even Hon. Members here, there are some members who are over 60 years of age, who are supposed to be on pension by now. I urge them to go and register. If they do not, they will not receive their pensions. We are travelling throughout the whole country doing outreaches. There is no exception Mr. Speaker and this is our cutoff point and we need to start off from somewhere. Genuine bonafide NSSA pensioners will come forward and will be accommodated but we cannot pay for ghost or dead members. I thank you.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for according me this
opportunity to ask a supplementary question. This programme is really welcome of eliminating ghost pensioners. As a ministry, do you have plans to extend this biometric to workers because there is a report that says here in Zimbabwe, we have got 250 ghost workers in Government who are getting money whilst they are not there? Are you going to call them one by one so that they can have fingerprints taken to confirm that they are still alive as you are doing to the pensioners? Is it not that this programme is aimed only at pensioners and the poor who will fail to pay rent because they will have been denied their monies resulting in
Wellcash as debt collectors attaching their properties.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Zwizwai. This programme that we have started on pensioners will extent to all NSSA contributors as they are expected to be registered biometrically...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, please stick to one
language that is the rule.
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: We are looking forward that this programme which we have started with NSSA pensioners, will be extended to our Government workers. We also want to reach the vulnerable, those who are over 70 and those who live with disability, we are moving forward with this programme so that everyone should be captured so that we know the number of people that we have who want to be helped.–
THE HON. SPEAKER: Anyorwe veduwe kwete captured zvakaoma.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. So we are looking forward that we have a data base for all civil servant and all those who are under Social Welfare including pensioners.
*HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I was listening as
Hon. Mupfumira was talking referring to the elders. In my constituency, we had a meeting yesterday and there was an issue about old people that are 65 years. Looking at our elderly people because we have long queues and they are forced to stand in these queues for long, are there any plans that the Government has so that the elderly do not join queues as some are sleeping in these long queues? Do we have plans as Government to ease this burden of elderly people standing long in queues even to engage the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa that the elderly be given preferential treatment or like what happens in other countries that they will be known where they stay and there are mobile banks that visit them there or there is a centre where they can go and get help. Each country is measured by the way they look after their elders. In Government, we also have people who are old and should also be looked after – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank Hon.
Chamisa for his question and his comment. He has touched on a very pertinent issue and it is one of the things that we were talking about this morning that we should engage the banks so that the elderly should be looked after well. When we were growing up, we were taught that when we are in the buses, we should not seat down whilst the elderly are standing. So, even in banks the elders should not stand in queues. There should be a counter reserved for the elderly only so that they do not stand in the queues.
Looking at what we have done so far, NSSA and certain banks have agreed that the elderly should not be charged when withdrawing their pensions. This means that we have our elderly at heart and that they should be given preferential treatment.
We should also teach all people to use plastic money to avoid queuing. So, we are in the process of engaging internet banking service providers to reduce charges when people pay or buy. People are being charged and losing a lot of money. Hence, we are looking into the issue of the elders that they live well. Right now, at the end of this month, October, NSSA is going to increase the basic pensions of people. We do not want our elders to lose their money. We have our elderly at heart.
+HON. MKANDLA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My Question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We have seen that the Public Service hired teachers. What criteria is being used by the Government when hiring teachers? For example, Chibala Primary School where there are 187 pupils, there is only one teacher and a headmaster. Thank you.
+THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION: (HON. DR. DOKORA): I really want to thank you Mr. Speaker and also thank the Hon. Member for her important question. I am as well touched by the absence of teachers in the system –
[Laughter.]- We asked for 7 000 teachers at the beginning of the year. I have been granted authority as of April to hire 2 300. So, that question relates to the gap between what I have been granted and what I need for now. So, as the Public Service Commission, the employer and the Ministry of Finance had agreed to find resources, I will only be too happy to deploy to those areas that still have gaps. I thank you.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Mr.
Speaker. Hon. Minister, I want to ask that if you are saying that you are going to hire the 2 300 teachers, what is the policy that you are going to use according to districts so that it is clear whether the people who are hired are conversant with the local languages? I am saying this Minister, for example in Avoca, Insiza District, there is a headmaster there who does not speak the local language. So I want to know if those 2 300 teachers are able to speak in the local languages where ever they will be deployed? I do not know whether somebody who is shouting is asking me not to speak in the language I am speaking because if they have, then I will have to deal with them directly.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I will respond in English directly…
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: On a point of order! Hon. Speaker, there is somebody who is insulting me, Mashayamombe from there – [HON. MMASHAYAMOMBE: Inaudible interjections.] – Then deal with that particular issue directly. Do not be a coward. What kind of a man are you? You are sick.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Member, what is the insult, I did not hear it – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order, order! Hon. Mashayamombe, stand up please and withdraw your
statement.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Hon.
Member is the one who said that 80% of the Members of Parliament are HIV positive, hence she is the one who agreed that she has AIDS –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! What exactly did you say to the Hon. Member?
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. What I
have asked is that the Hon. Member should withdraw what she said.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you answer my question! Order, order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - Order, order please. My question concerns what you said to the Hon. Member not what she said last week.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: I said that the Hon. Member
should withdraw what she highlighted last week to the media that 7080% of Members of Parliament are HIV positive - [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] -
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: On a point of order ….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I am going to send a couple of members outside. The matter was discussed here last week and I would like to believe that the Hon. Member made that statement.
Is that correct? –[AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.] – Who is saying yes?
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I
think that in a country where issues - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - No, no, no Mr. Speaker. I will not be intimidated in this House. I refuse to be intimidated - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: My question is - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga approached the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, order! Hon. Member, can you go out now? Go out straight away. Hon. Minister Dokora, can you respond to the question?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I seek your indulgence to enable the Hon. Member to raise the question again seeing that the last few moments have not been very conducive.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I understand that your
Ministry is going to employ 2300 teachers. When you are recruiting, are you going to recruit teachers who will be able to communicate in the local languages, for instance if the local languages are Kalanga or Tonga - are the teachers that you are going to hire be conversant with the local language. As I speak in Avoca, Insiza District, there is a headmaster who cannot speak the local language? I want to know how you are going to implement the policy of hiring the teachers.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I have to unpack parts of the Hon.
Member’s question. The fact of a head of school in some particular province and district, the head of school is obviously not a direct employment into the post. That is a promotional post. In other words, they would not have come into the category of the employment that we are talking about now. It is part of a process and then we have to look into other matters if they are issues that we need to follow through.
Secondly, we certainly expect that the engagement of teachers is sensitive to a number of the following criteria; the level at which the teacher is expected to perform and there are three levels as Hon. Speaker you do know taking into account your own background. There is the infant level which is from ECD A to grade two where it is important of course that the medium of communication be sensitive to how the children there learn. The junior level school which is grade three to grade seven and then secondary level; the second element in this matrix is to say the specialisation is also important. As you know, as part of the new thrust in the Ministry and in the curriculum framework is to say, at the various levels, do we have adequate specialists. We then compose the employment of those persons on the back of what specialists we need in every cluster because these teachers will also be used to staff develop their colleagues as we go forward but the specific case, that we can look into. I thank you.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I have a
supplementary question Mr. Speaker. Minister, is it possible that after you have hired those 2300, you bring the report in Parliament so that we can see where the teachers you hire come from. We have been talking about this issue for quite some time. We would like to know since you are saying you want 2300, you bring a report to Parliament indicating where they are coming from and also in terms of the languages they speak.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I thought in my initial response, I made it clear that where matters of language are particularly significant is at the infant level. Thereafter, grade three all the way to form six, we are dealing with the specialisation or the composition of the specialisation that are to be found in any given school. That is important. It is not as if we are just going to hire teachers on the basis of language merely. No, no, no, that is not the issue. You can have a whole school which is Ndebele speaking but perhaps there is nobody with Mathematics, Science or these other skills that we are looking at. It would not be helpful and it would not be educational for us to do that - that they are interested and wanting to understand at the infant level because that is what I think is important, that I can deal with the Ministry’s officials.
*HON. MANGAMI: I would like to know the criteria that is used when you are recruiting teachers because it seems that those who have just finished training are employed before those who trained a long time ago. What criteria do you use? Do you just recruit randomly or you consider the period that a person has been out of employment?
HON. DR. DOKORA: Quite clearly, I need to get my Ministry to articulate that aspect but it is very true to say as I speak now that we have more than 19 000 unemployed teachers who are on the market. If we are hiring and the system takes those that graduated in 2013 and perhaps 2014 and so on, you might then find that of your group of 2013 or 2014, you do not have physics and chemistry teachers in those groups. So you then take the physics and chemistry teachers who are coming from college straight away. Like I said, we are looking for specialisation fields. I hope it is helpful. I thank you.
HON. BHEBHE: I am raising a supplementary question in
connection with the earlier question that was initiated by the first Hon. Member to ask the question. He gave an example that there are 187 students that are taught by one teacher. The Minister responded that they were granted 2 300 teachers. What are they then doing to rationalise because there are other schools with full complement and yet there is a school with only one teacher. What policy are they putting in place to rationalise the situation of schools that are vulnerable like the one with 187 students against one teacher?
HON. DR. DOKORA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for that
question. We have been trying to live within the limitations that we have. If a new school or satellite school is expanding because generally the expansion is in the satellite establishments, we borrow teachers who are on the establishment of the existing schools and allow those to be redeployed to the new sites. If there are specific circumstances that appear to call for attention, we can be examining that.
Just this morning, my team from the Ministry was actually in Mashonaland Central to look at some of the glaring inadequacies that we are trying to live with by looking at how we can leverage the existing human resources that we have with the gap between what we have and the need to cover everyone in an appropriate and professional manner. I want to believe you will appreciate that we do not want to abandon any child without a teacher but we must also not deplete the parent schools as we try to reach out to the new schools and the enlarging enrolments.
*HON. A. MNANGAGWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We saw you spearheading the construction of schools in resettlement areas. I want to make a follow up on how far you have gone because we have rural constituencies and the rains are coming. Are you starting with our constituencies like Chirumanzu-Zibagwe because pupils are learning from outside?
*HON. DR. DOKORA: I want to thank Hon. Mnangagwa for her
question concerning the construction of infrastructure in the education sector. There should be continuous construction of schools because the children have a right to enroll at a school of their choice. Then there is also the construction of schools through our bilateral arrangements with other countries led by His Excellency the President. Like I said, we are going to invite you as Members of Parliament to go to Hatcliff and show you a pilot project that will be used on all upcoming schools.
We also said there is a loan that we were given so that we can build 17 schools. I am happy to inform you that they will be taking 14 days to construct such schools. Those who deal with procurement procedures have been doing their work diligently. In the meeting that we had yesterday, they said that they are in the last 14 days for the contracts to be signed by the companies who are to construct these 17 schools. I did not bring my list to show in which constituency they will be constructed.
There are 100 schools which Cabinet directed us to build. We did our topographical survey, the mapping of our schools even reaching
Zibagwe and other areas marking where the schools should be constructed. In other communities, you will find that the villagers have erected some infrastructure. We came up as a Ministry and said that instead of just 100 we are now building 166 because we are taking over what the parents have started. We are going to construct 166 schools and we are working with DBZ as our consultant. This year in November we would spearhead the project but these 17 schools will start within the next 14 days.
HON. ZINDI: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. In view of the menace being caused by the touts at almost every bus terminus countrywide and particularly in major cities, what is the policy being formulated in order to deal with this menace? We have lost lives as a result of these touts, so what it the Ministry doing in order to deal with this menace? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS, AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank Hon. Zindi for a very important question.
Regrettably indeed, we lost one of our citizens a few weeks ago because of touts pushing and jostling to try and get that person as one of their passengers. Admittedly, this phenomenon has caught us unawares and not ready for it. We have seen the emerging of kombis and also the rise in the number of young men and women, especially young men who work as touts, helping or pushing people into various modes of transport.
We have discussed this concern with the city authorities – [HON. ADV.
CHAMISA: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Pardon, you were saying?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I was
requesting that there be silence. We really want to hear the Hon.
Minister’s response. It is a very important one but there seems to be some noise.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, he is wearing the other hat as Vice President. Can you put order with my colleagues there, that group of colleagues there?
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I was
responding to Hon. Zindi’s question where she asked on what we are doing?
I was also responding that this morning, we even discussed this matter, as part of our consultations with the City of Harare. Harare especially is badly affected and two to three things arise. (1) We still now have the old bus termini Market Square, Copacabana, Fourth Street which has now been closed (2) Even those buses/kombis that we supposed to be loading from Mbare Musika have moved from there right into the city centre (3) It has therefore created a challenge and a new paradigm all together in the urban centres. We have now decided that
City of Harare must identify loading bays outside of the Central
Business District (CBD).
We will be moving to close down most of these centres where people were loading from within the centre of Harare. Those travelling to long distances be it Bulawayo will identify a place just outside the CBD where we know that passengers or those of our citizens who are travelling to the western part of our country can get their transport and proceed. The same goes for those travelling to Manicaland and these areas, I am pleased to say, are being identified and the City of Harare is moving.
The transport operators have also come to us as they are aware of the challenges that have been created now. I am happy to say that they are also prepared to support in the relocation and setting up of new areas where they can pick up their passengers and at least protect the integrity and safety of our people. The touts have become a major challenge in our urban centres, if you go around the Copacabana area, you will actually be able to pass. So we are addressing this matter. We also want to bring on board now the urban transport system. We will be running a trial programme just now with about 20 buses which we procured from China. These should also help us in dealing with the menace in the urban centres.
Lastly, we think that we must also bring back metered and well-run taxis to ply within the urban centres. The current chovamubaiwa’s and Mushikashikas have caused us serious damage. We have lost a lot of lives through accidents and if you see them reversing, they reverse at probably 40 to 50 km per hour speed going backwards and this cannot be right. So, I want to appeal to all our leaders to help our Ministry and city council to achieve this objective. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: My supplementary question is based on the issue to deal with the issue of touts immediately. Yes, I agree with the Hon.
Minister’s response in terms of dealing with the issue in the future but I am saying currently, what is it that the Ministry envisages in order to deal with the issue right now? Do we have existing by-laws? Do we have existing laws which can be enforced? What is it that we can do in order to deal with the issue right away? I thank you.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker, I agree the Hon. Member wants an answer and a solution today. What I have provided here is a holistic response. We cannot afford piecemeal responses. For as long as people are getting their transport from within the CBD, you cannot deal with the issues of touts easily. It does not matter how many policemen we deploy in the CBD, we will not be able to deal with this challenge. The only way we have to deal with this challenge is a holistic approach to this challenge.
First of all, let us locate the markets and pick-up areas outside the CBD and that is what we are now moving to do. So, Hon. Member, our response is holistic and we are going to do it right away. I thank you.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, my
supplementary to the Hon. Minister is his response that he wants to rectify the challenge. I am saying that the Hon. Minister is not looking at this holistically in order to resolve it holistically. By doing it piecemeal, he just wants to remove these people from the CBD to the outskirts.
You will recall that they have done it already …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member, it
is a supplementary question.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: I wanted him to know that a rank was
constructed near Colcom and the point is those people returned to the CBD. It is not about the people but the economy that is not performing well, if the economy was functioning well, then these people would not be troubling us. What are you doing about the economy so that these people will not return to the CBD? Touts and vendors come into the CBD because of hunger same as the Mushikashikas, the issue at stake is that of the economy.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Madam Speaker, I want to
thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. He once cautioned me against dealing with issues in a partisan manner but that is where he has gone.
I do not want to single out the council that is doing it – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order please let us
listen to the Hon. Minister’s response.
*HON. KASUKUWERE: The issue at stake here is that of
corruption, this is all as a result of corruption. We have empowered urban councils and they should adhere to by-laws. The Harare City
Council has municipal police who are no longer wearing their uniforms. The people being referred to are party officials with offices and there are touts there. People are vending and messing up the streets there. I think it would have been proper for us to just accept my earlier response that we should remove the root cause by taking them outside the CBD. So that people can board buses from clean and safe areas, that is what we are doing.
The existing by-laws that are not being enforced – it is the duty of councils to enforce that. The interruption of Government is when we see that things are not working properly. Thank you.
HON. CHIBAYA: I move that time for Questions Without
Notice be extended.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: For how long?
HON. RUNGANI: Until 4 o’clock p.m.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Up to 4 o’clock, this is 15
minutes.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
goes to the Minister who is in charge of the welfare of war veterans, Hon. Tshinga Dube. Hon. Minister, since the inception of your Ministry, it was anticipated that you were going to put in place a board of trustees to run the affairs of war veterans, mujibhas and chimbwindos, what are the impediments that are hindering your Ministry or
Government to constitute such a body? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF WELFARE SERVICES FOR WAR
VETERANS, WAR COLLABORATORS, FORMER DETAINEES
AND RESTRICTEES (HON. T. J. DUBE): Thank you Madam
Speaker Ma’am. I thank the Hon. Member Mandipaka for his question.
I have already mentioned earlier that we are bringing in the Bill to
Parliament for the alignment to the Constitution very soon. All this is covered in this Bill, I am sure you will be able to get your answers when the Bill is brought in here.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: My question is to do with the treatment
of our war veterans. In the context of the law that is coming, are you satisfied as a Minister and as Government that the way we are treating our war veterans, particularly as we embark on interventionist methods, to divide or take one side against the other, is appropriate and in line with the ethos and values of the liberation struggle? In particular, considering that they have suffered for this country, they are people who deserve and merit our kindest of consideration as Government. Are you satisfied or there is a lot that needs to be done on the part of
Government.
HON. T. J. DUBE: Thank you Hon. Member. This is a very
pertinent question. I must say that it is a very clear indication of what is actually taking place. This is not good for the war veterans or the people as a whole. So, I am not at all happy, I am very disappointed but it is very difficult for as long as there are divisions within our people, this will continue because war veterans are part of the community. That division is not initiated by war veterans – [AN HON. MEMBER: politicians] – yes, I agree with you it is politicians and so on. Thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister, we have had so many questions towards you to include myself, I have directed questions to you regarding the welfare of war veterans. Many times, you have pointed out that you are crafting a policy and that you are working on it. It is almost time now, your term is coming to an end – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaa!] – We have hardly seen anything but the war veterans out there are suffering. What is it that you are pushing so hard, just one thing in the Executive to spruce the minds of the Executive to understand the level of suffering that the war veterans are going through out there, so that if you speak on this forum today, they will appreciate that one of our Ministers, a war veteran is doing this, which will last maybe in December. What is it, just one? Thank you.
HON. T. J. DUBE: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. Hon.
Ma’am, I have only been a Minister for War Veterans for less than two years, but I think the Hon. Member appreciates that we have been through this war for 37 years. If you are blaming me for the two years, I accept the blame, but if you are blaming me for – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can
you please listen to him.
HON. T. J. DUBE: But if you are blaming me for the 37 years since the war ended, when these issues should have been handled, then I think you are addressing them to the wrong person – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. ZINDI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
is in connection with the welfare of war veterans. I once asked in this House about the board of war veterans which was last appointed in 2002 to 2003 to date, which was supposed to deal with the war veterans welfare. I asked and I was told that in the last session I think, when it was starting. I want to find out how far is the progress now in putting the board in place, may be that board can deal with the divisions that are coming up. What has been put in place to deal with that issue?
HON. T. J. DUBE: Hon. Speaker Ma’am, I think this issue about the board has been asked many times. Even today, I have answered something about it that there is a process and it does not depend on the Ministry of War Veterans. It is a process which follows all the law making processes. We went to the Cabinet Committee stage; we complete this stage and went to the Cabinet and from the Cabinet as we know it has to come here. This delay has not been a cause by the
Ministry of War Veterans, we completed this over a year ago and the
Cabinet chose a sub-committee made up of some Ministers – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Who are there?] – I think they were about six Ministers –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Munengami,
please.
HON. T. J. DUBE: It was the Cabinet and the President who appointed a Ministerial Sub-Committee which was chaired by the two Vice Presidents and 5 other Ministers. This was done I think in
November last year but we only went through this paper recently, about two weeks ago and the paper is now going through to the Cabinet and should be completed, I think any time as I have just pointed it a few minutes ago, where almost all these questions will be answered including the board and so forth. I can rest assure members of this august House that very soon they will be debating this.
*HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. Muzenda. My question is that what is Government policy concerning the installation of pre-aid metres because people are losing out money to officials and unofficial people who are charging US$250 to US$300 to install ZESA prepaid metres illegally. What is the Government policy concerning that so that people do not lose their money to bogus ZESA workers?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SEN. MUZENDA): Madam Speaker, I
want to thank the Hon. Member for his question. The prepaid metres, yes, we have a challenge there but they are coming. They will be enough just to save a few. We once said in this House that people should know how these things go by. The law says that ZESA employees should not be given money, so, as a Ministry we are pleading with you that if they are asked to pay, they should report to relevant people that they are certain people who are asking for money. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My
supplementary to the Minister is that we have laws in this country and even in local authorities that allow the sale of prepaid metres but when people buy these prepaid metres, they are supposed to be calibrated by the City of Harare. What is hindering ZESA from doing that so that people get prepaid metres so that we avoid the issue which Hon.
Maondera has alluded to?
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What is
causing delays in calibration to take place is that there are standards that should be followed. So, all our prepaid metres imported into this country go through a test to see if they meet ZESA requirements and standards. We have had challenges that some of the prepaid metres which find their way into the country are not up to standard. So, I see that this calibration is supposed to be monitored to see if it has been done properly.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
JOBS TO YOUTHS IN GOKWE-NEMBUDZIYA
CONSTITUENCY
- HON. WADYAJENA asked the Minister of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to explain to the House when the 4 500 jobs will be available to the youths of Gokwe Nembudziya Constituency, considering that the Ministry has been registering five hundred youths per ward through youth officers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH, INDIGENISATION AND ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT (HON. TONGOFA): Thank
you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to respond to this very important question from the Hon. Member. Madam Speaker, it is not correct however, that youth officers have been registering youths in order to give them jobs. By way of background, sometime in April 2016, the Ministry of Youth, Indeginisation and Economic
Empowerment facilitated the formulation of the Zimbabwe Youth
Empowerment Strategy for investment by young people.
The strategy outlines a youth empowerment model with three areas of intervention which are the Zimbabwe Champions and Heroes of the Economic Empowerment Revolution for Youth Entrepreneurs
Development Programme, the ZIM ASSET, and the Empower Bank Youth Financial Inclusion. The ZimCHEER, identifies, acknowledges and celebrates innovative enterprising and resilient young entrepreneurs who are contributing towards the transformation and growth of the
Zimbabwe’s emerging economy and creating employment. Through the youth officers, the Ministry has so far identified close to 39 thousand entrepreneurs from across the country, including 195 from Gokwe-
Nembudziya District who have together created 93 692 jobs.
Hon. Speaker, once the youths are identified by the youth officers, the plan is to assist these young entrepreneurs through the Zimbabwe Youth Council in the provision of market linkages, value chain development as well as support for management, human capital development accounting and legal services.
Empower Bank Youth Financial Inclusion Initiative, Hon. Speaker established with the support from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe will provide tailor made financial inclusion and support to some of these entrepreneurs who have in the past not received adequate support from the traditional banking sector.
Being business eco-systems across various sectors of the economy, the anchor companies guarantee a conducive environment within which entrepreneurs can be natured for growth. These companies will secure value chains within a given business enterprise to enable businesses to become more effective, efficient and competitive. Effectively, there will be established a network of entrepreneurs who become the empowered society or business persons growing our economy.
Madam Speaker, the entire process is in response to His
Excellency, the President R.G Mugabe’s consistent pronouncements that indigenous Zimbabweans must establish their own companies to judiciously exploit their natural and human resources, and employ other Zimbabweans in the process. It is therefore, not correct that the Ministry has been registering youths so that they are offered employment. In fact, the Ministry is unable to provide 4 500 jobs per constituency. The correct position is that the youth officers have been identifying and collecting information on local level entrepreneurs with the objective of assisting them to grow their businesses.
It should also be noted that the Ministry is involved in a number of activities at ward level. In addition to gathering data related to youth economic activities under the ZimCHEER programme, the Ministry is also working with the District Development Fund through the Youth
Build Zimbabwe programme on road construction projects in rural areas.
The project will combine ward based National Youth Service Training and Integrated Skills Outreach Programme (ISOP) so that young people will actively participate in economic activities.
Only recently, the Ministry was also mandated to establish demonstration plots for soya bean production across the country through its network of Vocational Training Centres and working in conjunction with other Ministries.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker, Ward Youth Officers are therefore busy collecting information required for various programmes that the Ministry is undertaking. In all these engagements, our Ward Youth
Officers have made it clear that their role is to assist youths to conduct meaningful economic activities and develop them to become employers.
At no time has youths been promised jobs. Thank you.
HON. WADYAJENA: The Hon. Minister said it is not a fact. How can it not be a fact when I represent Gokwe-Nembudziya. What I have asked here is reality on the ground. He must answer my question.
May he please answer my question, it is a specific question.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He has answered your
question.
HON. WADYAJENA: He did not answer my question.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your question which was not answered?
HON. WADYAJENA: He said it is not a fact, what I wrote here.
So, how is it not a fact? Can he prove that this is not a fact?
HON. TONGOFA: Probably Madam Speaker, let me read the question. The question says, “to ask the Minister of Youth Indigenisation to explain to the House when the 4 500 jobs will be available to the youths of Gokwe-Nembudziya Constituency, considering that the Ministry has been registering 500 youth per ward through Youth Officers”.
So, we were not registering for employment. We were registering youths who are involved in businesses so that we know what they are doing in order that when we are providing funding, we know who requires what and who deserves to get that funding. So, that is what we are doing.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, where is the
question being confused and the answer from the Minister according to the question?
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, you were listening
yourself. He is now telling me the youth officers are registering for opportunities. On the ground they are registering saying you are going to be employed. So, that is what I have asked – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Matambanadzo, you cannot help the
Minster to say what he wants to say, you are not the Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Wadyajena, you address the Chair, I am the one who recognised you.
HON. WADYAJENA: Look at what Hon. Matambanadzo is
doing. What is his problem? Are you paid by the Minister of Youth?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, please
behave yourself? It is only myself who can see what Hon.
Matambanadzo is doing, that is my duty.
HON. WADYAJENA: Can you please call him to order!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You cannot send me to do
anything here. I think the Minister is correct because he explained to this august House why they were registering youths. So, maybe you heard it from another person, now you had a chance to ask the Minister, who is giving us the real answer why they were registering youths. So, where is the problem?
HON. MLISWA: Before I got up Madam Speaker, other Members of Parliament tried to just follow my stammering and it is not fair because that is the way I was born. Can you just reprimand them?
My question to the Hon. Minister is that in line with what the Hon. Minister has said that they were on a fact finding mission to identify youth from what they were doing. He went on to say that they identified
195 youths with entrepreneurial skills whom they are going to empower.
I would like to know, that first of all the fiscus has no money to even pay the youths, where are you then going to get the money for the 195 youths to be empowered in the manner that you see fit.
HON. TONGOFA: We have been promised the money by the Ministry of Finance, they promised us about 10 million. Yesterday, we had the deputy governor at our function and they said they have put aside money for the women’s bank and money for the youth’s bank. So, that is where the money is coming from.
HON. MLISWA: I think Hon. Minister, you cannot honestly stand and tell these people you are promising the youths, it is not proper. I think let us deal with the facts on the ground. If there is no money in the fiscus, let us not lie to the youths that Hon. Chinamasa...even this Parliament is underfunded but we are coming to work. So, it is important that as an Hon. Minster, he must tell the youth the truth that we are going to stop this programme because we do not have money until we get money from the fiscus then can we roll out the programme. We do not want Ministers who are lying to the youth, no wonder why mishika-shika haisikupera, ma touts haasikupera, they are now coming into town because they have been given empty promises with the
Ministry of Youth that there are jobs. So, you cannot blame them.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Give them the fund so that
they start their business. So, it is the duty of the Minister to do whatever they are doing.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister whether this programme is being rolled out to specific provinces and others have been left out. It is news where I come from, I have not heard about it. Thank you.
HON. TONGOFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to probably draw you back to a day when I came to this august House and launched the ZimCHEER magazine. This is the magazine with the youths. We are identifying youths who are engaged in meaningful projects and we want to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. TONGOFA: We want to reduce the delinquencies which occur when we give loans to people who are doing nothing. So, we want to prioritise people who are already doing something. To us, it is a low hanging fruit because they are doing something and they can increase the chances of employing more people. We are doing this country-wide. It is not only in Midlands. I have got the list here. For those in Midlands, it was not in Gokwe only but it is the whole province
– we have been going there.
ENGAGEMENT OF YOUTH OFFICERS IN POLITICS
- HON. WADYAJENA asked the Minister of Youth
Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to explain to the House whether youth officers are allowed to engage in politics and to further state whether or not they can invite political figures to officiate at Government events.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT,
INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT (HON. TONGOFA):
Madam Speaker, youth officers are not supposed to act in a partisan manner in the exercise of their duties as enshrined in Section 200 (3) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) of 2013.
Youth officers’ duties mostly include mobilisation of communities to engage in developmental activities so as to meet the Ministry’s and
Government’s objectives. These developmental activities include National Youth Service Programmes, Vocational Training,
Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Programmes and Youth Entrepreneurial Projects. Thus, youth officers are compelled to work with and invite various stakeholders who include among others; Councillors, Members of Parliament, Chiefs and even Ministers to events they organise. Besides, Chiefs, Councillors and Members of Parliament are politicians. Youth officers therefore find themselves working with politicians from different political formations but in their official capacity as Councillors or Members of Parliament.
The Minister recently instructed the youth officers to approach and explain the Ministry’s mandate, their duties and coordination role in community development to local Members of Parliament so that they understand what youth officers are doing. This is because Members of Parliament influence the allocation of Ministry requests for resources if they understand what the Ministry is doing. In these engagements, Madam Speaker, youth officers are under instructions not to act in a partisan manner. I thank you.
HON. SARUWAKA: My supplementary question to the Minister
is, if I rewind or help the Minister to remember this that all the youth officers were engaged in a partisan manner. They were engaged soon after the 2008 run-off. The list from my constituency is of people who actively participated in the campaign as polling agents for a particular party – ZANU PF in this case. I am wondering how on earth will they operate in a non-partisan manner when they have been engaged partisanly. There were no interviews that were done openly. I remember during the audit for civil servants, the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services then reported that they could not handle the youth officers because they are partisan or are a political animal. So, I am just wondering how on earth you are trying to claim that these youth officers can behave in a non-partisan manner when they were engaged partisanly. Youth officers are ZANU-PF members. How can they serve everyone when they are recruited from ZANU-PF only? – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Nhasi kuGlen View uku pane zvaitika. I can give an example.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Munengami, we should
follow the procedures of this House - hakusi kudhibha kuno.
HON. TONGOFA: I do not know the history of what the Hon.
Member is saying. What I know is that instructions are given to the youth officers by the Minister. They are supposed to be non-partisan.
That is what I know. I think the Hon. Member knows the history better
– [HON. MUNENGAMI: Isu tiri three tose tine masupplementary.] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Aaah! We do not do it that way. Hon. Munengami, what is wrong with you? – [HON.
MUNENGAMI: Sorry mhani.] –
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: My supplementary question to the
Hon. Minister is; if there is evidence that the youth officers have positions in political parties, that they move around wearing political party regalia or like what happened in Budiriro today that they were moving around with a ZANU-PF vehicle beating people, what steps will he take with regards to this?
HON. TONGOFA: Youth officers are just like anybody. They have got their rights when they are not at work to support whichever political party they want to support. I do not know what the Hon.
Member is saying but they are free to do activities which they want –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! *HON. MACHINGAUTA: I have another supplementary question Madam Speaker. These youth officers – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, can we have order Hon. Members?
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: Youth officers, as the Hon. Minister
has said, if we look at the Constitution of the land on Section 200, it says that they are not supposed to hold any position within a political party whether they are at work or not because they are now Government employees –[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, I do not
want to send you out.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: If we look at Section 200 of the
Constitution, it further says that since they are now Government employees, they are not supposed to hold any position within a political party but I am surprised that the Minister is saying that when they are not at work, they are not supposed to get a salary or they have retired but at the moment, they are still on the Government’s pay roll. Section 200 says that they are not supposed to hold any position. I do not see where the Minister is getting lost. What do we say if the Minister is going against the Constitution of the land? We find them with party regalia, they hold party positions, they shout slogans and force people to attend rallies. What is the Minister doing with these people in his Ministry?
*HON. TONGOFA: Madam Speaker, I did not say that they
should hold party positions. I said they can support any political party that they want. They are not hindered. On the issue of positions, I do not know.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Hon. Member asked
about party positions.
*HON. TONGOFA: I do not know anything about that – [HON.
MUNENGAMI: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Munengami! Hon.
Munengami, I do not want to send some people out of this House. I think we have to behave.
*HON. TONGOFA: Youth officers are not supposed to hold any
political party positions but wearing a t-shirt does not mean you have a position. If you see them wearing t-shirts, it does not mean that they hold any position. It is just like anyone else putting on a t-shirt.
HON. GABBUZA: In terms of the youth officers’ mandate, is
there a policy on the way they must be distributed because some wards have more and others have almost nothing. In terms of qualifications, some do not even hold a single ordinary level subject. Some have ordinal level subjects and others are too old –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – In terms of their mandate, how are they supposed to be structured?
*HON. TONGOFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Earlier on, I said that the history of how they were distributed is not known to me. You will find that some wards have three and if there is a vacancy we are not replacing. If one leaves the area or is discharged from duty we are not replacing anyone. So, in other areas there will be more whilst in other areas they will be few because others are dying and some are retiring.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I just want to help the Deputy
Minister following the response which you have just given. I think as a Ministry, you should be fair throughout because some areas have youth officers while others do not have. You should find a way of redistributing.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: My supplementary question to the Deputy Minister is that - I was born Prosper Chapfiwa Mutseyami but Hon. Matambanadzo is referring to me as big headed. Is it a problem to have a big head? Can I change the way I was created by God. I want Hon.
Matambanadzo to withdraw.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think we have to behave like
Hon. Members in this House.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: My supplementary question is that if we
look at the word ‘youth’, we are looking at someone who is 35 years and below. In my constituency, there are youth officers who are 64, 68 and 59 years old. Is there a law which regulates the age limit of youth officers?
*HON. TONGOFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. If a person is
employed, there are ways of leaving that employment. If you get to the age of 65 years, then you retire. It does not mean that being a youth officer you are supposed to be a youth. You are doing work that involves the youth. They get into employment as youth but we cannot chase them away before they reach their retirement age.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of clarification. My point of
clarification to the Minister is that when they got employed, they were youth but this programme was launched in 2009 and the people that we are talking about are those who are 65 years old. Do you mean to tell me that this programme is now 20 years since it was launched?
*HON. TONGOFA: I did say that I am not aware of the history and I am not going to answer it –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]. That question should be directed to the employer. It is not under my purview.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): I seek leave of
the House that we skip Question Numbers 3 to 22 and we deal with
Question Number 23.
Motion put and agreed to.
INTRINSIC VALUE CHARGE ON RESIDENTIAL AND
COMMERCIAL STANDS
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Lands and Resettlement to explain to the House why local authorities charge intrinsic value on both residential and commercial stands given that one would have purchased them and will continue to pay rentals.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): May I start by
thanking her for asking this question. I regret to state that the administration of local authorities and the land which they administer does not fall under my Ministry. This question will best be addressed either by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National
Housing or the Ministry of Rural Development, Preservation and Promotion of Culture and Heritage. I thank you.
INTRINSIC LEVY VALUE OF LAND CHARGE TO
PROPERTY OWNERS
- HON. MANGAMI asked the Minister of Local Government,
Public Works and National Housing:
- to explain to the House why Local Authorities continue charging intrinsic levy value of land on the property owners and to state the criteria that is used to establish the intrinsic value of land.
- to explain to the House why intrinsic value levy payment on plan approval is done, considering that it affects the development of the infrastructure. – [HON. MEMBERS: Haapo, aripi?
Hoo mudhara wedu uyu.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order but why are you
doing that? One of these days I will send you out, and do not blame me for that because you do not behave like Hon. Members of Parliament.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Madam Speaker, let me start by thanking the Hon.
Member for asking the question. However, let me inform this august House that intrinsic land value is charged when selling unserviced council land.
Intrinsic land value is determined through valuation of land by the valuations and estates of local authorities in line with market values and local policies.
Levies and taxes are charged to ratepayers and this is permissible in terms of the Urban Councils Act where local authorities are permitted to levy on ratepayers properties.
(b) Intrinsic land value is payable when local authorities sell unserviced land. Plan approval is done when a person starts a development after buying a stand. Plan approval fees relate to the actual value of the building to be constructed. I thank you.
*HON. PHIRI: My supplementary question pertains to someone who has settled their debts. Now we have Africans who were disadvantaged, who bought their stands a long ago. What is the Ministry doing to help the disadvantaged people in order to empower them to acquire title deeds, especially in urban areas?
*HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker, the policy
states that in order for someone to be able to acquire title deeds, they should not be in debt. What is happening is people will be staying there but owing in rates, you cannot obtain title deeds if your account with council is in arrears.
IMPORTATION OF GMO KITS BY PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY SCHOOLS
- HON. DR. MATARUSE asked the Minister of Primary and
Secondary Education to inform the House;
(a) Whether Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO) kits that are being imported for use by many primary and secondary schools in
Zimbabwe are regulated by the National Biotechnology Authority.
(N.B.A);
(b) What the Government Policy is with regards the importation of GMO kits and the Ministry’s response to the proposal by the NBA to regulate all GMO kits imported into the country.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Hon. Speaker and
I thank the Hon. Member for raising the question.
- The Ministry does not have GMO kits in schools. The only
Kits that are known to us as the education sector are ECD kits for infants (ECD A to Grade 2). These are in the form of building blocks and toys but they come as a kit in a box. For secondary level, we talk of science kits, not GMO material – but if the Hon. Member has other knowledge which is not privy to us, my door remains open.
- The same matter on the second part of the question. Again it is an area that is really not familiar with the workings that we engage in everyday but I thank the Hon. Member.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you have a supplementary question Hon. Member?
HON. DR. MATARUSE: I want to clarify something to the
Hon. Minister.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you want further
clarification from the Hon. Minister or you want to clarify that again to the Hon. Minister?
HON. DR. MATARUSE: Yes, he wants that clarified. Hon.
Minister, you stated that you have science kits for the laboratory experiments. So there are kits that contain GMO materials which are used in their biology class science experiments.
HON. DR. DOKORA: When I speak of science kits, I will be talking about for instance, things like beakers which are glassware material and test tubes – this is what I am talking about. When I talk of kits for the infant level, I am talking about wooden and plastic material where the children do some construction work because these things are set out like some jigsaw puzzle for them.
I am trying to be helpful and I hope it is truly helpful but if he has further information, I am always available. We can talk at my Ministry, I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. My point
of order is that we are here to work and the Ministers were here and they too are paid to work. So, when they are not found here, what does it really say about how we conduct our responsibility and duties.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon.
Member. It is unfortunate that the timing for asking this question is not relevant because even the questioner is not in the House.
HON. MLISWA: But I had not finished because I also wanted to
touch on the questioner as well.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, Hon. Mackenzie is not
here and so on. So, who are we going to blame now? Whilst I go along with what you are saying that Ministers should be here, Members of Parliament should also be here.
HON. MLISWA: That is why I am saying this is a waste of tax payers’ money because the Executive is not here, the Members of Parliament are not here, how can we move the country forward in a situation like this when the country is looking up to us to be able to move it forward. It is really sad, it is a disgrace and I do not think we are conducting ourselves on the duties the way we should be.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What Hon. Mliswa is saying
is very important to everyone to the Ministers and also the Members of Parliament who put their questions on the Order Paper but they are not attending Parliament. Some people just come here for five minutes and go out.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. MAJOME: I move that time for Questions with Notice be extended.
HON. MLISWA: I second.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are extending up to 5
o’clock p.m.
DATE OF BIRTH FOR MR. TOBAIWA MUDEDE
- HON. MAJOME asked the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Services to inform the House when the Registrar General, Mr. Tobaiwa Mudede was born; and further explain if he is above 65 years and why he has not retired from the Civil Service.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam Speaker. We seek the indulgence of the House and the Hon. Member to have this question deferred to next week. We only saw it on the Order Paper today.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Hon .Madam Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, I want to raise an objection. This question is of strategic national importance. It has been on this Order Paper for a very long time. I have difficulty being satisfied with the response that ‘we have only seen this question now.’ I want to believe that ministries can see the Order Paper and that they have Parliamentary Liaison Officers. The very reason why these questions are put on notice is so that they prepare. I want to think that with respect, this does not show sufficient respect for Parliament.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I heard the Minister
appealing to you and to the House as well. Yes, you are complaining but they have been appealing to the House and everyone that if it can be deferred once and for all – [AN HON. MEMBER: On condition that it will be on number one next week] – They are not the ones who put up the Order Paper. Thank you.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of privilege Hon. Speaker. Whilst I do understand that it is not the Hon. Ministers who are responsible –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can we have
silence in the House.
HON. MAJOME: In light of the fact, as you rightly pointed out that it is not the Hon. Ministers who are responsible for ordering questions on the Order Paper, may I, on a point of privilege, request that since this question – I did comply with the procedures and I am entitled to get my answer today, but because I understand that the Hon. Ministers are not ready and they want time, May I request that the question also be given precedence on the Order Paper next time.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hope our administration is
taking note of that.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
RECORDED COMMERCIAL CHILD SEXUAL EXPLOITATION IN
HARARE
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
want to thank you for the opportunity to give a Ministerial Statement on the recorded commercial child sexual exploitation in Harare. Indeed, it had been reported that this vice is countrywide.
Madam Speaker, allow me to acknowledge with thanks Hon.
Members of this august House, in particular, Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga, who moved a motion and debated on the subject. The swift movement of this House and the subsequent outcries, point to a House working flat out to deliver on the mandate to the people, we thank you. It is our fervent hope as a Ministry that this House embraces and supports some of our recommendations which we will table. Madam Speaker, following the publication of an audio recording on Star FM Radio Station, regarding children said to be engaging in transactional sex, we led a delegation to launch an investigation of the case through engaging the Radio Station and Katswe Sisterhood which had sponsored the programme. I wish to categorically state that my Ministry has been working well with Katswe Sisterhood. There has been collaboration and complementary efforts with the organisation. The Minister went personally to the office of Katswe to engage them and we are working together.
After these initial investigations, our officers and the Katswe representatives went and removed 73 children to date from Hopley and
Epworth. From the 73 children, 54 were from Hopley and 19 from Epworth. After the removal of the children, the Ministry hosted a dialogue on the 25th of September, 2017 after a Cabinet directive. The Minister reported to Cabinet and a directive was given that we need to set up a national taskforce, which is responsible for the creation of an environment that is responsive to the needs of children so that they are prevented from being sexually exploited for commercial or any other reason for that matter.
The following Ministries relevant for child protection were nominated to be part of the taskforce, Ministry of Health and Child Care,
Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Ministry of Home
Affairs, Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, Ministry of Youth, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment, Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender and Community Development, Ministry of Rural Development Promotion and Preservation of National Culture and Heritage and the Ministry of Local Government.
Our Ministry is partnering with the Zimbabwe Republic Police
(ZRP) and other partners have been carrying out night assessments in Epworth, Caledonia, Mabvuku and the last exercise was done on the 1st of October, 2017. Since the first blitz, no children have since been identified. The exercise will be rolled out to all the 10 provinces of the country and is being treated as an urgent matter. All the identified children were initially placed at a safe house where a one stop service centre was set up by our Ministry.
The children have been profiled by social workers within the department of Social Welfare. Profiling is part of the needs assessment, which is an initial stage towards a holistic rehabilitation approach. The services that these children are receiving range from therapeutic, psychosocial sessions, medical assessments, education and other special needs required by the children.
Our staff have been providing other basic needs of the children like accommodation, food and cleaning. To date, our Ministry has engaged other organisations to offer their specialised services to the children and they are as follows:
- Zimbabwe Republic Police, Victim Friendly Unit (VFU) who are assisting with referrals for age estimations for children without birth certificates to the Ministry of Health and Child
Care;
- Childline Zimbabwe which is offering individual counselling services to all the children on an ongoing basis;
- Mavambo Orphan Care is assisting in the identification and training of additional community childcare workers in the affected areas;
- Medicines Sans Frontiers (MSF) is providing medical examinations;
- Family Support Trust (FST) is offering medical examinations and psychosocial support;
- Child Protection Society is training children and caregivers on child rights and child safeguarding. They are also providing funding for tracing and reunification. The organisations also donated sports kits.
- REPSSI is offering group therapy programmes.
- Zimbabwe National Council for the Welfare of Children (ZNCWA) donated food and toiletries.
FINDINGS FROM THE ASSESSMENTS CARRIED OUT
From the needs assessments that were carried out, 71 girls were school drop outs due to financial hardships in their families. Two girls from Epworth were in school and are sitting for their O’ level this October.
Health
- Medical examinations were conducted by partners.
- From the 73 children, 28 were not sexually exploited, the rest of them had been sexual exploited.
- One of the girls is on Anti-Retroviral Treatment
IDENTITY
Twenty five (25) girls do not have birth certificates.
IDENTIFIED POSSIBLE CAUSES OF CHILDREN BEING
COMMERCIALLY SEXUALLY EXPLOITED.
Through engaging the children the following were noted to be the causes of commercial child sexual exploitation;
- Poverty
- Coercion by caregivers
- Lack of supervision
- Dropping out of school
- Peer pressure
- Drug abuse
- Orphanhood
- Abandonment by parents or caregivers due to the above, children have resorted to performing in dance groups in beer halls by making themselves even more vulnerable.
INTERVENTION STRATEGIES
Our Ministry with the assistance of child protection partners has been offering rehabilitation programmes for all the children. These programmes have been done through the following outlined
activities;
- All the identified 73 children were removed from risk to a place of safety (Domboshava Training Centre).
- The children were all profiled, which is a needs assessment exercise.
- 15 children who were not yet sexual exploited were removed from Domboshava and placed in children’s homes in Harare.
- Management of their rehabilitation process is being done from these homes. These children are in need of care as they were exposed to immoral behaviours.
- The children are receiving ongoing counselling and psychosocial support.
- The 2 girls that were enrolled in school were reunified with their families since they had registered to sit for O’ level examinations in October 2017.
- 10 girls who are above 18 years were taken to Ruwa National Rehabilitation Centre for vocational skills training.
- Family assessments are being carried out for all the children to assess risk and to provide social protection support services to the identified vulnerable households.
At the moment, Domboshava Training Centre is housing 46 children. These will be placed in ideal homes soon after the final assessments and identification of suitable homes.
Challenges
- Inadequate resources to meet the demand for social protection services for example Public Assistance (PA) which is a monthly allowance for vulnerable families, has not been funded since 2015 and in 2017 an allocation of US$150 000 was done by Treasury.
In commending Treasury for this disbursement, we must highlight that it has not been adequate.
- High caseloads for Government social workers, who currently have a social worker to child ratio of 1:14 000 children in the country.
- There is an urgent need to establish more Government schools in new urban settlements such as Hopley, Caledonia and Stoneridge, as thousands of children live in these areas.
- Basic Education Assistance Module (BEAM) only pays fees for children enrolled in Government schools leaving out children enrolled in private colleges in these settlements.
- BEAM has arrears dating back from 2014 amounting to US$87 256 828, yet the number of children requiring assistance continues to grow. In 2017 BEAM programme was only allocated US$10m.
There is need for increased allocations to this programme.
- Sprouting of unregistered public places of entertainment such as shebeens, have hindered operations of social workers and the police who should inspect these places as a child protection measure, there is KwaAnthony in Hopely, Booster in Epworth and in Hatcliff, Zvamada, all these places need to be visited.
- Sprouting of unregistered public places of entertainment such as shebeens, have hindered operations of social workers and the police who should inspect these places as a child protection measure.
- Mobility of social workers is currently hampered as the Ministry has a serious shortage of vehicles to carry out inspections.
RECOMMENDATIONS
- There is need for more resources to strengthen the social protection programmes such as Public Assistance, Food Deficit Mitigation, BEAM and Harmonised Social Cash Transfers.
- There should be social services at schools, clinics, police stations in all new settlements.
- Recruitment of more social workers for effective service delivery in preventive and curative programmes.
- Enforcement of registration of all unregistered public places of entertainment operating in the areas with assistance from the local authority and Zimbabwe Republic Police.
- All Government Ministries and Partners to verify registration status or organisations before funding them.
- To facilitate birth registration for all the children who do not have birth certificates.
- Procure vehicles for the Ministry to carry out regular patrols and inspections across the country. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no quorum in the House in terms of Standing Order Number 56.
[Bells rung.]
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER adjourned the
House without question put at Twelve Minutes past Five O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned:Hon. Bhebhe, Hon. Chibagu, Hon. Chikuni, Hon.
Chinanzvavana, Hon. Chingosho, Hon. Chitura, Hon. S. Dube, Hon.
Gabbuza, Hon. Gangarahwe, Hon. Gezi, Hon. Goche, Hon. Gonese,
Hon. S.Gumbo, Hon. Holder, Hon. Hungwa, Hon. Kadungure, Hon.
Kanhanga, Hon. Kaundikiza, Hon. Khanye, Hon. Machingauta, Hon.
Machingura, Hon. Madzinga, Hon. Mahoka, Hon. Majaya, Hon. Majome, Hon. Makoni, Hon. Mandipaka, Hon. Mangami, Hon. Mapiki,
Hon. Matambanadzo, Hon. Matangaidze, Hon. Mataruse, Hon.
Matimba, Hon. V.M. Mawere, Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, Hon. Mkandla, Hon. Mliswa, Hon. L. Moyo, Hon. B. Mpofu, Hon. M.M.
Mpofu, Hon. Mtingwende, Hon. F. Muchenje, Hon. S.M. Muchenje, Hon. Mudyiwa, Hon. Muguti, Hon. Mukwangwariwa, Hon. Munengami,
Hon. Musanhi, Hon. Mutseyami, Hon. Alice Ndhlovu, Hon. N. Ndlovu,
Hon. Nduna, Hon. Mail Nkomo, Hon. Nyere, Hon. Paradza, Hon. Phiri, Hon. Rungani, Hon. Saruwaka, Hon. Shava, Hon. Shongedza, Hon. Uta,
Hon. P. Zhou.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 3rd October, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
An Hon. Member having been standing in the House.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon Member, take your seat. Hon. Member behind the pillar, do not continue speaking on your phone in the House, first and last.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
REMINDER OF INVITATION TO THE LIAISON AND
COORDINATION COMMITTEE RETREAT
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to remind the House that all
Chairpersons of Committees are invited to the Liaison and Coordination
Committee Retreat to be held at the Holiday Inn in Bulawayo, from the
6th to the 9th October. Travel arrangements will be communicated in due course. In addition to that, all Chairpersons must bring with them copies of the Constitution and the Standing Rules and Orders.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. A very good
afternoon to you. I rise on a matter of privilege because you will recall that I did talk about our Mines Chairperson situation. We went through the entire due process but I thought it was supposed to be tabled in Parliament so that the due process is followed. The reason why I am bringing this up again is because we seem to be encountering the same problem with the Chairperson.
Just yesterday, he had to unilaterally appoint somebody to also stand in his position as Chair. The Committee would have nominated somebody. With due respect, yes he might have an inclination to somebody who understands issues but it is also proper to advance your issue to everyone else and say I believe Hon. Mliswa is best to stand in for me whilst I am away. You then give it to the Committee deliberate
on it.
Unfortunately, we will not be seen to be doing our job because it is not all of us who have that understanding and capacity at the end of the day. Not to really do down the Hon. Member, I have never heard him speak here in Parliament and so how is he going to stand before you as Chair and present a report? It is very worrying for the Committee to send somebody who has never even spoken in Parliament to then be nominated, handpicked by the Chairperson to go and represent the Committee as a whole. We feel that the Committee shall be shortchanged especially with so many things that we have done.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Why did you not raise this matter in
Committee?
HON. MLISWA: He is dictatorial. We cannot do anything about it. I have said it before and this is the second time I am saying it Mr.
Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you raise the matter in your
Committee?
HON. MLISWA: We did but he always overrides us. I have always said this before. It is on record that we are under siege and we say it. The due process has not been followed. How many times should I say it? I have come before your Mr. Speaker Sir, complaining. We cannot have this continuing. There is no point for that Committee. The due process was supposed to be followed. Nothing has happened up to now.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Take your seat. I want a point of clarification Hon. Mliswa. Were you chosen to be the spokesperson of that Committee on the matter?
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not have to be a spokesperson chosen by anybody. If I see that there is something not in line with Standing Orders, I have a right to also object to that. I do not have to be chosen as a spokesperson by anybody.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Answer the question. Yes or no!
HON. MLISWA: No, and I do not have to be chosen by anybody to be a spokesperson to talk about irregularities.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Okay, take your seat. Thank you. Procedurally, the Committee through its Committee Clerk should have indicated some consensus on the matter by writing through the Committee Clerk to the Office of the Speaker indicating your problem.
That is the procedure.
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, you did rule in the House.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! I did not recognise you. Please be disciplined. Can you sit down? I want a written report from your Committee through the Committee Clerk and we will deal with the matter accordingly.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE WORLD TRADE ORGANISATION
TRADE FACILITATION AGREEMENT
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE
(HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to seek leave of the House for me to continue to present Order of the Day, Number 1 without it having gone to the Committee because we are in liaison with the Committee who are in agreement that since it is a protocol we can go ahead and present it today.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get the first part of your intervention?
HON. MABUWA: Last week when I gave notice of the motion, there was a concern in the House that this motion is being brought without it having been discussed by the Committee responsible for industry and commerce. The Ministry of Industry and Commerce …
THE HON. SPEAKER: What was the conclusion of that intervention?
HON. MABUWA: It was referred to the Committee who then agreed through the Chair that we can go ahead today.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I will allow the Hon. Deputy
Minister to move the notice and thereafter, there will be an adjournment on the debate.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order. My point of order is in terms of Standing Order Number 20 (e) that I raised last time. I did hear from the Hon. Minister that she conferred with the Committee but it is my respectful view that the Portfolio Committee…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get the other bit.
HON. MAJOME: I am the one who raised the point of order about our tradition of just ignoring Standing Order Number 20 (e) regarding the compulsory reference of all treaties and agreements and that is why the matter was deferred to today. The Hon. Minister was gracious enough to advise me that the Portfolio Committee took a position about it. I would, in my respectful view believe that the proper procedure would be for the Portfolio Committee to indicate that it either saw it or it did not see it or it is not interested in it, because it would appear untidy for, I suppose, the Executive to speak on behalf of a Portfolio Committee. I want to believe that the Portfolio Committee should just do that and then we proceed. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear you. I thought you understood me, she will give Notice and adjourn debate until the Committee has given a report. Please proceed Honourable, did you get me? She will give Notice and adjourn to allow the Committee to peruse the Protocol.
HON. MAJOME: That is what she did last week.
THE HON. SPEAKER: She gave Notice last week?
HON. MAJOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, she gave Notice and I stood
up to raise a point of order and on that the House adjourned so that the Committee would consider the Protocol. That is how I understood what happened, so we were waiting for the Committee to indicate what it has done.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, I did not want to say that I was not there but the institution must proceed. You gave Notice Hon.
Minister?
HON. MABUWA: Yes, I did Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: So you proceed to table the motion and
adjourn the debate thereafter.
HON. MABUWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you for allowing me to
proceed and table the motion and I take note of the concerns that were raised by the Hon. Members of Parliament. I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS, Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international Organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS Zimbabwe is a member State to the World Trade Organisations (WTO) since 5 March 1995. In December 2013, WTO member states concluded negotiations on a new agreement, the Trade
Facilitation Agreement (TFA), at Bali Ministerial Conference;
WHEREAS the Member states adopted a protocol of amendment to insert the new agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement. In accordance with Article 10 (3) of the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the WTO Agreement; any new Agreement negotiated will enter into force once two thirds (2/3) of the WTO member states complete the domestication processes and submit Instruments of Acceptance/Ratification.
WHILST Zimbabwe was in the midst of finalizing its internal processes, on the 22nd February 2017, the number of other WTO member states reached the required threshold of two thirds (2/3) instigating the Protocol to enter into force;
AND WHEREAS the Protocol has to pass through Parliament for approval and Presidential assent before the instrument of Acceptance is submitted to the WTO secretariat, Zimbabwe as a member of the
WTO is supposed to accept the Protocol of Amendment;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid
Protocol be and is hereby approved for acceptance.
INTRODUCTION
This motion seeks Parliament to accept the Protocol amending the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the World Trade Organisation (WTO) in order to make the Trade Facilitation Agreement part of our national law. As a member of the WTO, Zimbabwe is expected to accept the Protocol of the Amendment.
In December 2013, the WTO member countries concluded negotiations on a new agreement, the Trade Facilitation Agreement
(TFA), at the Bali Ministerial Conference. In line with the decision adopted in Bali, the WTO members adopted a Protocol of Amendment to insert the new agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement.
On the 22nd of February 2017, the TFA entered into force at the WTO when Rwanda, Oman, Chad and Jordan submitted their instruments for acceptance bringing the total to over the required threshold of 110 acceptances. According to the Article 10 (Paragraph 3) of the Marrakesh Agreement Establishing the WTO Agreement, a new agreement will enter into force once two-thirds of the WTO members who are currently 164 complete their domestic ratification processes.
The Protocol of Amendment has been accepted by the following
African countries: Botswana, Chad, Cote D’Ivoire, Gabon, Ghana, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritius, Mozambique, Niger,
Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Seychelles, Swaziland, Togo and Zambia.
All the internal legal processes for the acceptance of this Protocol
Amendment were undertaken i.e. scrutinised and examined by the
Attorney-General’s Office of the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Public Agreements Advisory Committee (PAAC), considered and approved by the Cabinet Committee on Legislation (CCL) and by Cabinet itself on the Fourth Meeting on the 21st February, 2017.
Zimbabwe has been a member of the WTO since 5th March, 1995, the successor of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) to
…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members on my left, may you lower your voices? Please proceed.
HON. MABUWA: To which the country was a contracting party since 11th July, 1948. The WTO administers various trade agreements for the multilateral trading systems and serves as a forum for trade negotiations. Zimbabwe participated in the Trade Facilitation Agreement negotiations and the national negotiating positions were informed by inputs from various stakeholders constituting the National
Trade Facilitation Committee.
TRADE FACILITATION AGREEMENT
The Trade Facilitation Agreement (TFA) provides for expediting the movement, release and clearance of goods, including goods in transit and also sets out measures for effective cooperation between Customs and other appropriate authorities on trade facilitation and customs compliance issues. It also provides for technical assistance and capacity building on the trade facilitation provisions
The provisions of the Agreement are classified into three categories which are premised on a member country’s capacity to implement and these provisions are very important and are as follow:-
- There is category A that contains provisions that a country designates for implementation upon entry into force of the Agreement.
- Category B contains provisions that a country for implementation on a date after a transitional period of the time following the entry into force of the Agreement.
- Category C contains provisions that a country designates for implementation on a date after a transitional period of the time following the entry into force of the Agreement and requiring the acquisition of implementation capacity through the provision of assistance and support for capacity building.
ZIMBABWE TRADE FACILITATION NEEDS
ASSESSMENT
As a country, Zimbabwe conducted its Trade Facilitation Needs
Assessment in 2009, 2013 and 2015 to identify national trade facilitation needs and to self-designate the TFA provisions into the three categories and then the country classified these Articles into categories A, B and C.
In category A were provisions which Zimbabwe will be able to implement fully when the TFA enters into force. We took there Articles 6.1; 6.2; 7.3; 8.1; 9; 10.3; 10.5; 10.6; 10.7; 10.8; 10.9 and 12. These 12 will be implemented by Zimbabwe according to category A of the TFA.
In category B, those that Zimbabwe would need some reasonable period of time to fully implement after the TFA enters into force are Articles 1.4; 2.1; 2.2; 4; 6.3; 7.1; 10.1; and 10.2 – eight of the these The last category where Zimbabwe would need some reasonable period of time, financial and technical assistance to fully implement after the TFA enters into force are Articles 1.1; 1.2; 1.3; 3; 5.1; 5.2; 5.3; 7.2;
7.4; 7.5; 7.6; 7.7; 7.8; 7.9; 8.2; 10.4 and 11.
Further to the categorisation outlined above, some work will be carried out in May to assess the country’s current level of implementation of Category B and C commitments before making notification to the World Trade Organisation.
- BENEFITS OF THE AGREEMENT
- Implementation of the Trade Facilitation Agreement will expedite the movement, release and clearance of goods, including goods in transit and will also facilitate effective cooperation between customs and other authorities involved in trade facilitation and customs compliance issues. This would contribute to reducing costs of trading, and improve on efficiency, transparency and reduction in bureaucracy and corruption through the use of technological advances.
- Implementation of the Trade Facilitation Agreement will boost the current national efforts towards improving the ease of doing business in Zimbabwe and ease of doing Export Business Rapid Result This augers well with ZIM-ASSET which is prioritising a holistic approach to tackling Zimbabwe’s trade facilitation constraints to enable the country to meaningfully tap into trade and investment opportunities offered in the region and the rest of the world.
- Ratification by Zimbabwe of the Protocol of Amendment to insert the Trade Facilitation Agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement would also facilitate the sourcing of funding from development partners for trade facilitation projects as provided for in the Agreement.
Mr. Speaker Sir, therefore, may I recommend that, in light of the benefits that will accrue to Zimbabwe on implementing the Trade Facilitation Agreement, I invite Parliament to approve the acceptance of the Protocol Amending the Marrakesh Agreement establishing the World Trade Organisation to insert the Trade Facilitation Agreement into Annex 1A of the WTO Agreement, I submit.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): I
move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 to 4 be stood over until the rest of the Orders on the Order Paper have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon .Speaker, I
move that Order of the Day, Number 5 be stood over until the rest of the
Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Hon. Dr. Shumba having stood up to speak.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you objecting? Is that an objection? HON. DR. SHUMBA: Yes Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker Sir, we
deliberated over this issue last week in this House where I indicated that the Committee had made certain resolutions. I conferred with the Minister outside and expressed the importance of engaging fairly, especially in light of Section 141 of the Constitution. It is normal practice Hon. Speaker, that once an issue is still being introspected, debated and the parties have agreed to dialogue over the matter, the matter cannot be put on the Order Paper. I therefore move through you Mr. Speaker to ask that the matter be withdrawn from the Order Paper.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Dr. Shumba. I think what the
Hon. Deputy Minister has done is sufficient. Order Number 5 has been stood down until further notice. That will allow your consultation to proceed.
Motion put and negatived.
SECOND READING
INSOLVENCY BILL [H.B. 11, 2016]
Sixth Order read: Second Reading: Insolvency Bill [H.B. 11, 2016].
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me at the outset to highlight that the subject area of the Insolvency Bill that I am presenting to this august House is not an often treaded path, but a highly technical field of law which calls for a thorough application of mind by Hon. Members. Let me first of all demystify the subject of insolvency before I outline the purpose of the Bill and the philosophical principles upon which it is based.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Insolvency is, in broad and generic terms, a phenomenon where a person, partnership, company or any entity in competitive business is unable to pay debts. In legal terms, a meticulous definition locates the essence of the concept of insolvency in a debtor’s ultimate inability to meet financial commitments when, upon a balance of liabilities and assets, the former exceed the latter with the consequence that it is impossible for any of the liabilities to be discharged in full at the time of falling due. This definition has however, been critiqued because even where a situation arises where a company’s assets ultimately exceed its liabilities, but it is unable to pay its debts as they fall due, it will be held to be insolvent. Therefore, inability to pay debts is, at most, evidence of insolvency, albeit not conclusive in itself.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the problems arising from the conceptualizations of insolvency, and the self-evident truths that the phenomenon of insolvency has gathered momentum, and has over the last decade crystallised into one of the cardinal pillars - [HON. KHUMALO:
Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon Khumalo and your colleagues, can you stop what you are doing please.
HON. MNANGAGWA:…. of corporate and commercial
dynamism at the global, regional and national levels, is a wake-up call to our jurisdiction’s imperative need to review its insolvency law. By sponsoring this Bill, I mark the central watershed of a noble process of reviewing and modernising our national insolvency regime that will enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of our insolvency system in the country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe joined the United Nations Commission on International trade Law (UNCITRAL) as a member state in 2016. The UNCITRAL was established in 1966 with the view to promote and advance the progressive harmonisation and unification of the law of international trade. This was envisaged to be executed through the preparation and promotion of the utility of legislative instruments in cardinal aspects of international trade and commercial law such as arbitration, procurement and insolvency. This coincided with the work of the enforcing contracts and Resolving Insolvency Thematic Working Group of the Doing Business Reforms Agenda which was launched by the Government in 2015, wherein the resolution of insolvency cases was identified as one of the key factors crucial to the effective and efficient running of business enterprises. It was also noted that the current legislation governing the resolution of insolvency cases was scattered in several pieces of legislation and outdated, thereby lengthening the process of resolving such cases.
Mr. Speaker Sir the Bill therefore, seeks to: codify into one coherent piece of legislation the insolvency laws of Zimbabwe; supplement judicial management mechanisms with other modern reorganisation processes so as to ensure timely payment of creditors; modernise the winding-up provisions that were previously under the
Companies Act [Chapter 24:03]; provide for cross border insolvency resolutions; as well as provide for the regulation of Insolvency
Practitioners.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the foregoing, this Bill provides for the administration of insolvent and assigned estates and the consolidation of insolvency legislation in Zimbabwe; to repeal the Insolvency Act [Chapter 6:04] and to provide for matters connected with and incidental to the provisions of the Bill.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this brings me to the specific contents of the Bill before this august House. The Bill is very long and contains 197 Clauses set out in 26 parts.
Mr. Speaker Sir, part 1 contains Clauses 1-3 and sets out the preliminary which includes the Short Title, Interpretation and the provisions for when a debtor is deemed unable to pay a debt.
Part II contains Clauses 4-12 and provides for ways in which a debtor may be liquidated and these include application by the debtor or by a creditor.
Part III contains Clause 13 and provides that the Act does not apply in respect of banks, insurance companies, registered securities exchange or a person registered in terms of the Securities Exchange Act [Chapter 24:25].
Part IV contains Clauses 14-18 and sets out liquidation orders and the commencement of liquidation process.
Part V contains Clauses 19-20 and sets out the effects of liquidation on the debtor and his or her property. Mr. Speaker Sir, Part VI contains Clause 21 and it sets out the rights and obligations of the debtor during the solvency period.
Part VII contains Clauses 22 and 23 and provides for impeachable disposition including set-offs and presumptions that relate to property that is in possession of the debtor.
Part VIII contains Clauses 34-40 and it sets out the effects of liquidation upon certain contracts that include leases and contracts of service.
Part IX, contains Clause 41 and provides for the appointment of a liquidator.
Part X contains Clauses 42-49 and it sets out the powers and duties of liquidators.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Part X1 contains clauses 50 - 63 and provides the procedure for meetings and examinations of a debtor and other persons.
Part X11 contains Clauses 64-72 and provides for claims against an insolvent estate.
Part X111 contains Clauses 73-81 and sets out the procedure for the election, appointment and disqualification of liquidators;
Part XIV contains Clauses 82-87 and sets out the rights and duties of creditors;
Part XV contains Clauses 88-90 and provides for costs of liquidation and application of free residue;
Part XVI contains Clauses 91-93 and sets out special provisions relating to the sale of property that belongs to an insolvent estate;
Part XV11contains Clauses 74-96 and provides for banking accounts, investments and moneys that belong to an insolvent estate;
Part XV111contains Clauses 97-105 and provides for estate accounts, distribution as well as the collection of contributions;
Part XIX contains Clauses 106-110 and provides for the rehabilitation of natural persons and its effects;
Part XX contains Clauses 111-116 and sets out special provisions relating to trusts, companies and other debtors in liquidation other than natural persons or partnerships;
Mr. Speaker Sir, Part XX1 contains Clauses 117-118 and provides for personal liability for fraudulent, reckless or insolvent trading;
Part XX11 contains Clauses 119 and 120 and provides for pre and post liquidation compositions;
Part XX111 contains Clause 121-148 and sets out corporate rescue procedures, which is modern reorganization mechanism that is designed to revive a failing company thereby ensuring its continued existence.
Part XX1V contains Clause 149 and provides for offences under the insolvency Act;
Part XXV contains Clauses 150-182 and provides for among other things, the procedure for the resolution of cross-border insolvency and lastly;
Part XXV1 contains Clauses 183-197 which sets out the general provisions relating to the resolution of insolvency.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I firmly believe that the Hon. Members now appreciate the scope and general content of this Bill. Principally, it will deal with the structural issues that arise from the relationship between insolvency law and other laws, the types of mechanisms available for resolving a debtor’s financial difficulties, and the institutional framework required to support an effective insolvency regime.
Furthermore, the Bill will enhance our insolvency regime to achieve a balance between the need to address the debtors financial difficulty as quickly and efficiently as possible, the interests of the various parties directly concerned with that financial difficulty, mainly creditors and other stakeholders in the debtor’s business and public policy concerns stemming from impact on employment and taxation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I now commend the Insolvency Bill,
(H.B.11.2017), to the House and move that the Bill, be now read for the second time. I thank you.
The Hon. Speaker having put the question and there being no debate.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I realise that the Bill is very clear that everybody appreciates it. I feel so honoured by this appreciation of the Bill – [Laughter]-for that reason. I move that the debate be adjourned to Thursday.
Motion put and agreed to.
Second reading to resume: Thursday, 5th October, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move that Orders of the Days, Number 7 to 10 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders on today’s Order Paper are disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker and a very good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, my presentation is on power point. The reason being that last week, the House congratulated Hon. Thokozani Khupe on attaining a PhD and I thought it would be remiss of us if we do not acknowledge you Mr. Speaker that ever since you came in as Speaker of Parliament of this particular Parliament; you have encouraged Members of the House to go to school. Most of them have taken heed and this includes myself. I took lessons in computers. It is for that reason that I want to do a power-point presentation with the indulgence of the House
– [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI
MUSHONGA: He did not hear it. Dzokorora.] – [Hon. Mliswa having speaking to Hon. Dr. Shumba.]
HON. MARIDADI: Ifbe Hon. Shumba could speak with Hon. Mliswa outside the House. Mr. Speaker, I take the pleasure to repeat myself – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sorry Hon. Member.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, last week we congratulated
Hon. Thokozani Khupe on attaining a PhD from the University of Zimbabwe. I think it would be remiss if we do not acknowledge that when you came in as Speaker in 2013, you encouraged most of the Members of Parliament to go back to school. I am one of those who went back to school and I took lessons in basic computer lessons for six months. That is why I want to do my presentation on power-point. I have bought a second hand computer which has been serviced and is in good order.
Hon. Maridadi pointing to the slide.
If we go to the first slide, there is a 1942 Rolls Royce which the President is pleased to use at the official opening of Parliament. There are horses following behind. The President sits there with his lovely wife and there is a driver and a police officer. That is the picture I took to kick-start this presentation.
I will go to the meat of the matter, the next slide. The presentation layout is as follows: I am going to talk about constitutional matters, anecdotes which I take from the President’s speech I will also talk about common vision and unity I am going to talk about the issue of corruption which now sounds like a record stuck in a groove I will talk about State enterprises or parastatals – Air Zimbabwe, ZESA, ZINWA and NRZ in particular I will talk about the budget deficit I will talk about Command Agriculture and I will talk about my recommendations because it is not good to talk about things and you do not proffer recommendations.
I will go to the next slide. According to the Constitution, the President is not supposed to open Parliament but there was a resolution by this Parliament that the President must come and officially open Parliament. We were glad that the President was pleased to come and officially open Parliament and set out the legislative agenda. It is my very humble submission that in the interest of separation of powers,
Parliament must be officially opened by the Speaker who is the
Chairperson of the Presiding officers.
The Chief Justice opens the Judicial Year. I think it is also in the same spirit that the Chairperson of the Presiding Officers, who happens to be you, should officially open Parliament. For avoidance of doubt, I have a picture on the third slide of the person who should officially open
Parliament.
Third slide shows the picture of the Hon. Speaker, Advocate
Mudenda.
That is the man who should officially open Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – The Constitution is very clear. Section 119 of the Constitution says, Parliament must protect this Constitution and promote democratic governance in Zimbabwe. So, Parliament must promote this Constitution. We have always cried foul as Parliament that the Executive treats us as second or ugly cousins from the village; it is because we are not standing our ground. We must stand our ground and tell the Executive that Parliament is an institution of the State on its own just like the Judiciary is an institution of the State on its own. The Executive is equally an institution of the State and none of these institutions must be able to extend its hand into the other. As
Parliament, you must officially open Parliament.
I will go on to talk about the precedence in this country. There is the presidency. When I say the presidency, I am talking about His
Excellency and his two deputies. After the presidency, comes the
Speaker of Parliament and the Chief Justice. When the President ….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you going to tell us the best practices where the Hon. Speaker opens Parliament.
HON. MARIDADI: I will, Mr. Speaker. As Shakespeare says, cease your admiration a while, I will be faithful - [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
Mr. Speaker, when the President is addressing Parliament, he says
Madame President, Mr. Speaker; it should be vice versa. It should be
Mr. Speaker, then Madame President because you are the Chairperson of Presiding Officers - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – That is enshrined in the Constitution. If you go to Schedule 6, Section 6 (14) and 4 (b), they are very clear on what should happen. Actually, the power of the Speaker is such that when something happens to the President, the Government must continue so that power is handed to the next person. The party from which the President contested must write a letter to the Speaker, informing him that we are nominating so and so as the next President. The Speaker must then cause the President to be sworn in. So, the Speaker is a very powerful person in the scheme of things to the country – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
In other Jurisdictions Mr. Speaker, for example the American scenario, there are three people who use outriders and police escorts.
There is the President, the Vice President and the Speaker of Parliament.
When we come to this place Mr. Speaker, we must have two outriders. When I say outriders, I mean those motor bikes with sirens which clear the road but what we see instead are Ministers with escort. Why does a Minister need escort? Ministers do not need escort – Hon. Prof J. Moyo does not need escort, Hon Chombo does not need escort. Escort must be a privilege of the presidency, which means the President and his two deputies, the Speaker of Parliament and maybe the Chief Justice and it ends there. Ministers must be able to just have a driver and an aide and they come to Parliament. No one is going to kill a Minister. If we wanted to kill Ministers, we would have killed them eight times over.
No one will kill them. Actually, if Ministers are going to die, they will have killed each other and that is why I talk about common vision and unity.
The issue of the Speaker of Parliament is very clear. Speaker of
Parliament is the Chairperson of the Presiding Officers and he is actually
Chairperson of the Standing Rules and Orders Committee. It is the Speaker of Parliament who must officially open Parliament and when the President comes here to address Parliament, he must address
Parliament through the Speaker. So, it must be Mr. Speaker Sir, and then
Madam President because Madam President is only deputy to the Speaker of Parliament. I will rest it at that point Mr. Speaker.
The President talked about truant Ministers and he said, “Out of
206 pieces of legislation identified as requiring alignment to the
Constitution, only 30 Acts remain outstanding”. The President said and I quote “the many pieces of legislation for tabling during the Session certainly mean hard work which demands absolute commitment and diligence from all Members of Parliament and that includes my
Ministers as well. Much more is even expected from Cabinet Ministers who should lead by example and of course those who do not attend are guilty. They lack impeccable parliamentary conduct, don’t they”. That is the question that the President asked and I am going to respond to the President.
I will say to Mr. President when I respond to that; let me quote Mr.
President in 1980 when he was Prime Minister of this country. He said “let us turn our guns and swords into hoes and ploughshares, let us embrace our former enemies for the greater good of all”. Very instructive, that is R. G. Mugabe, Prime Minister of Zimbabwe. I was a school boy and I remember that very vividly. Abraham Lincoln, the 16th US President says, “a house divided against itself cannot endure”. And then Winston Churchill says, “where there is no enemy within, then the enemy outside cannot fight you”. One T. H. White said, “the destiny of man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing you end up like a collection of monkeys throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees”.
Why should it take the Executive time that what we hear coming out of the Politburo and Cabinet – Cabinet the way I see it is chaired by His Excellency the President. They discuss matters and come up with Cabinet resolutions. When the Vice President, for want of a better example, Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa makes an announcement on a particular policy matter that has been adopted by Government, we expect every Minister to rally behind that. What we hear is a Minister calling for a separate press conference to say no, no, no, what the Vice President is saying is nonsensical. Mr. Speaker, a country cannot endure when the only 25 people that have been charged with running this country speak at cross purposes. Why is it interesting to us as
Zimbabweans, how does it interest my mother in Mabvuku to know that
Hon. Prof. J. Moyo is a spy because we heard that was presented in the
Politburo. What they discuss in Politburo is actually public information. I was going to say the Politburo must not sit at ZANU PF Headquarters; they must sit at Africa Unity Square because what they discuss we get to know about it even before they finish the meeting. It is all there.
Common vision, we heard that Command Agriculture was a
success but we have another Minister saying no, no, no, it is actually command “ugly-culture”. It was a failure. Then ZANU PF Politburo fighting publicly and somebody comes and says, Vice President is a successionist. In response somebody says no but Hon. Prof. J. Moyo is a spy. Why does it interest Mr. Speaker, your grandmother who is in Binga – who is a spy and who is a successionist? What they want is food on their table. They want a Cabinet which works together to put food on the table. That is what they want. We do not want to hear about their personal fights.
Mr. Speaker, Government media takes sides, The Herald, The Sunday Mail, ZBC, they take sides. The Minister of Media then cries foul in public that ah-h the media is taking sides, what am I going to do? Resign – it means that you are not doing your work. Why should you cry foul in public. You have been given that mandate to run the public media and you come and cry in front of us. What do you want us to do?
You want us to give you cerelac. Resign because you are a failure.
The fourth point here says, bureaucrats are meddling in issues of politics. Mr. Speaker, Permanent Secretaries are paper tigers. They must stay in offices and implement Government policy. That is what Permanent Secretaries must do. Permanent Secretaries must not give press statements which attack Ministers. Ministers are politicians and Permanent Secretaries are bureaucrats. There is a clear line between politics and bureaucracy and Permanent Secretaries must adhere to that. That is why then you find a Permanent Secretary being paraded at a rally and insulted because he is meddling in politics – iwe George huya pano. The First Lady will not say that to Ngoni Masoka because he is not meddling in politics. He is sticking to his guns but if you meddle in politics and you are not a politician, politicians will undress you in public and that is what happened. What can we do in that scenario? This country needs people who know exactly what they are doing. Politicians must stick to politics and bureaucrats must stick to bureaucracy. If you are a bureaucrat and you want to be politician, resign and join lasting politics torovana kuma primary elections.
This country needs peace and security. When you have the
President telling us secrets of his deputy in public, that is a source of conflict. I know ZANU PF people are going to keep quiet because that is a hot potato. You cannot have a President haranguing his deputy in public. You cannot have that and vice versa. You cannot have a Vice President saying bad things about his senior in public. It must not happen. We know the President and his deputy cannot agree on everything but that must be discussed behind closed doors. When they come out, they come out with one position.
I am going to talk about the state of the economy. The President also says, “the Session also comes amid increased optimism for a stronger rebound of the national economy”. Mr. Speaker, people that give the President information must be brought to Parliament and must be asked to respond. Why do they allow the President to read a speech which says the economy is on a rebound when unemployment is at 95% and when everyone is a vendor. Fortunately, Zimbabwe is one of the few countries which has a President who is very intelligent. At his age, the
President is very intelligent and he knows but if you give him a speech
to say now the economy is on a rebound, he will read it verbatim. What do you expect him to do?
“Government is now working to consolidate agriculture among other things investing more resources in water harvesting and irrigation development”. Mr. Speaker that is not happening. Where is it happening? Why do they allow the President to read a speech as if he does not live here. The President lives here. The situation out there is at cross purposes with what the President is saying. When I go to South Africa and I am asked who my President is, I come from the opposition but President Mugabe still remains my President until 2018 when we come to the elections. He remains my President. I hate it when people try to embarrass him in public like that.
The President says, “the sustained growth in the mining sector’s contribution to the country’s GDP hinges on the full implementation of beneficiation, value addition programme”. He said that the Mines and Minerals Act must be brought to Parliament. It does not talk about exploration. Exploration is more important than all that because what we need to know is what do we have underground. We can securitise it and borrow money based on our mineral wealth and that will not happen if there is no exploration. The Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill must talk about exploration because we do not know what is underground Mr. Speaker. Also, I think that is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted because $15 billion went missing and the nation is waiting for answers as to what happened to the $15 billion. I will leave it at that and go to the next point.
Enhanced national economic competitiveness and the country’s appeal as an investment destination, Government has embarked on reforms to improve domestic business environment, the Insolvency Bill which the Hon. Vice President presented to Parliament and all those other Bills which are before Parliament.
We will go to the next slide, Mr. Speaker, that gentleman there is known as Hon. Patrick Anthony Chinamasa. He is a Member of Parliament and Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I want to hear what he says about the state of the economy.
Let us go to the next slide, state of the economy. Mr. Speaker, last week shops went empty and we are told it was because of social media, Judas Iscariot and the President is very clear that there is a Judas Iscariot amongst us who caused that to happen. That person, Mr. Speaker, must be brought before the courts because it is treason of the highest order if you generate a message that causes shops to be empty. Prices actually increased by 75% - that is treason and there is chaos on the money market with a four tier pricing system. Hard cash United States Dollars, they have their own price; Bond notes attracted 25% surcharge which is now up to about 60 to 70; Ecocash attracts 50% and telegraphic transfers, Mr. Speaker, you do not even know – that must be sorted out. I am glad that the President has identified some Judas Iscariots in the system that must be flushed out. We cannot wait for that to happen and I for one cannot wait in the name of Jesus.
Let us go to the next slide, state of the economy, I continue. Mr.
Speaker, of everything that is happening, no money is being made available to the productive sector. The 5% Export Incentive is too little…
Time Limit
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker, I move
that his time be extended.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, please proceed.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I will be very
fast.
Mr. Speaker, the rate of the Bond note is now 2:1 when I compiled that but today I went to Fourth Street. Mr. Speaker, you need to have three Bond notes to get one United States Dollar and United States Dollars are available at Fourth Street, Eastgate and Copacabana – brand new $100 bills are available and yet our Reserve Bank does not have money. Mr. Speaker, should we now call Copacabana Reserve Bank or should we continue to call this tall building here Reserve Bank? I do not know and the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development must fight to stem that.
Let us go to the next slide, 2016 budget deficit hit $1.4 billion or 10% of national output from a projected 150 – that is bad and that one alone could actually cause a Government to resign – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Without even moving a motion of no confidence in the Government, that alone would have caused the
President to fire the entire Cabinet and appoint people who are capable.
I am one of them, not that I want to be Minister but I think I am capable
– [Laughter.] –
Mr. Speaker, subsidies to farmers are not budgeted for in this country. You suddenly wake up and hear that we are giving farmers subsidies and that is inflationary. Food imports following a devastating drought, we continue to import food and we are not a net importer of food. I was on Twitter and there was a Minister, I shall not mention his name because he is not here. He was celebrating that we are going to build a shopping mall and I said, Minister, we do not need shopping malls in the country. What we need is the productive sector, why do you celebrate construction of a supermarket? Why do you need construction of supermarkets even like Choppies? We do not need Choppies, we need OK Supermarkets because what Choppies is doing is mop-up of United States Dollars and expatriate them to South Africa – that is all that Choppies is doing in this country.
Mr. Speaker, all they are selling are imported goods, fast moving consumer goods – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Anyone who comes to Zimbabwe to sell fast moving consumer goods is not good for the country. Actually, there is a memo at Choppies that says, ‘You can bank everything else but United States Dollars, you keep them in the till.’ An Indian man comes in the morning to collect all the United States Dollars and they are spirited out of the country then you wonder where foreign currency is going. It is going to South Africa because you allowed Choppies to come here, we do not need supermarkets, we need the productive sector.
Mr. Speaker, support for loss making enterprises. Government paid former white farmers $134 million as compensation for land seized since 2000. The amount had not been set aside in the initial budget and that is very poor planning. $134 million paid to former white commercial farmers and the money had not been budgeted for, where did that money come from?
Mr. Speaker, if you fail to plan, you are planning to fail. Ben Gilpin of Commercial Farmers Union (CFU) says he is unaware of who has been compensated. So the money went to white farmers and yet the person who is representing the white farmers says, no, I do not even know where the money went to. I will not be surprised if next year we get another batch of white commercial farmers wanting to be paid. The same names that are appearing on the list today will come next year saying we still need to be compensated. This year’s deficit previously focused at $400 million is also expected to increase to nearly $120 million due to maize subsidy. The scheme is open to abuse and we saddle the economy with more debt.
The next slide, I continue to talk about the budget deficit. The former Reserve Bank Governor, Dr. Gono, with all his faults said one thing that is very instructive. He said that 75% of the problems that we have in this country are as a result of corruption. Zimbabwe is ranked
154 out of 175 countries according to the corrupt perception index. Auditor-General, Mildred Chiri, recently released three reports highlighting the extent to which graft has paralysed State owned enterprises. In that report, mai Chiri says that $500 million cannot be traced. Senior Government officials have also been caught with their fingers in the till and I will not talk about that because that is public information.
Next slide, I see my time is almost up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is up.
HON. MARIDADI: State enterprises - Mr. Speaker, we have more than 100 State enterprises in eight categories and only 47 presented their financial accounts to the Auditor-General. Less than ten got a
clean bill of health that they are able to operate as the rest of them had going concern status by the Auditor-General…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you wind up, time?
HON. MARIDADI: Yes, I will talk about Air Zimbabwe very
quickly. That is Air Zimbabwe, it has a debt of $300 million and it was given $200 million in 2010. It has retrenched 400 workers who they continue to rehire.
The next slide, $250 million of Air Zimbabwe’s debt was put into
ZAMCO so that their balance sheet would be clean but today Air Zimbabwe is saddled with loss of $300 million. Let us go to the next slide that is an Air Zimbabwe aero plane but my prediction Mr. Speaker, the next slide shows what Air Zimbabwe is going to be like in 2020 – that is my prediction.
Let us go to the next slide, Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority
(ZESA),
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is time.
HON. MARIDADI: That is ZESA power plant. Let us go to the next slide, that is what people are saying about ZESA, ‘We are fed up ngeZESA!’, that is what people are saying and that is not me holding
that placard but somebody else.
We go to Zimbabwe National Water Authority (ZINWA) and then let us go to Command Agriculture. That is a picture of the Hon. Vice President and I think that looks like Hon. Kasukuwere and that looks like Hon. Made, Hon. Dickson Mafios – we know them now and Hon. Chitindi and some other people. Soon after that meeting, they will start sending wrong messages at cross purposes, he is a secessionist, he did this and did that as if that will contribute to Command Agriculture but there they are pretending to be laughing. After that the Vice President will call his press conference, Hon. Kasukuwere will call his press conference, Hon. Chitindi his press conference and Hon. Made his press conference. Fortunately Hon. Made is quiet so he does not call for a press conference … - [Laughter.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Wind up please Hon. Member.
HON. MARIDADI: That is all information on Command
Agriculture and I will be happy to give to Hansard…
HON. MUCHENJE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. This presentation has since lost its parliamentary objective and is now laden with political satire – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Something which is not necessary to our ears. I thank you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member, your point
of order should have come much earlier during the presentation. Hon.
Maridadi, unfortunately, the time is up, you may not proceed.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, I just want to thank you for
indulging me to make this presentation. It is my wish that other Members of Parliament also do power point presentation so that we are
ICT savvy, but I just want to thank you Mr. Speaker for your time.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th October, 2017.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 12
and 13 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Hon. Holder having been asked to present Order No. 14 HON. HOLDER: I have a point of order Mr. Speaker. I did present this motion, am I allowed to present it again?
Hon. Holder approached the Chair.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON RESUSCITATION OF
SHABANI-MASHAVA MINES ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. HOLDER: I move the motion standing in my name; That the motion on the closed Shabani-Mashava Mine, which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF FAIR REGIONAL AND GENDER
REPRESENTATION IN THE AWARD OF TENDERS HON. MISIHAIRABWI – MUSHONGA: I move the motion
standing in my name;
That this House:
ACKNOWLEDGING that Section 18 of the Constitution provides
for regional equality and states “The state must promote the fair representation of all Zimbabwe’s regions in all institutions and agencies of Government at every level;
FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING that Section 17 provides that
“The State must promote full gender balance in Zimbabwean society, and in particular the State must promote the full participation of women in all spheres of Zimbabwean society on the basis of equality with men; NOTING that both Section 18 and Section 17 place obligations on the State to take specific measures to rectify both regional and gender imbalances in society;
CONCERNED that the process of identifying providers of
Government services and Government tenders are violating Section 17
AND 18;
NOW THEREFORE, resolve to call upon the Executive to ensure
that:-
- all processes of identifying providers of services to Government are conducted in a transparent and accountable manner;
- awarding of Government and parastatal tenders promote fair regional representation; and
- a 30% quota of all Government tenders are reserved for women.
HON. T. KHUMALO: I second.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Let me start by saying
I took your advice. However, I am a bit disappointed because I had brought with me handcuffs for this particular motion –[Laughter] – which were taken by the security at the gate because I had hoped that usually visuals demonstrate better than when you speak. With handcuffs, I would then have indicated why this motion is critical at least to the people that I represent in this particular House.
Having said that, I got your advice when you said my word will still be honourable and I hope that my word will be honourable and that the visuals that have been taken away from me will not disturb my presentation. Mr. Speaker, this particular motion, for some of us, is important and is critical, more so because I have been in this House from the year 2000 I have participated in processes of negotiation for the Constitution, negotiations for the Inclusive Government.
Mr. Speaker, in all those debates and those discussions, even in this House, there is one thing that has been very worrisome; it is the issue that when you talk about issues of marginalization, it is always equated to issues of tribalism. It is almost as if we have taken a position as a nation that a particular group in this country is not allowed to say anything without that being equated to tribalism and I think that is unfortunate. It is unfortunate Mr. Speaker that last week you were away but in this House something very disturbing happened. We had a
Minister who decided to answer using the Ndebele language in this House. Previously another Minister had responded in Shona and nothing was said. We nearly had a Minister who stood up to respond to a question in Ndebele and the first response from the Presiding Officer was that please speak in English so that everybody can understand. It was very disturbing and it is unfortunate that you were not there but you should have seen the mood that was created in this particular House. It spoke to some of the very dear and intimate issues that arise around issues of making sure that everybody is treated fairly, which is why when you look at the kind of sections that I am talking about, that is Section 17 and Section 18, which specifically speaks against the discrimination of women against the discrimination of regions.
I then decided that perhaps if we continue to stand up and every day keep hitting on the issue that people are marginalized, it may not make sense. I have personally decided that as we go to the end of this particular Session, I am going to be bringing to the House motions that speak to each particular area that we have been speaking about in terms of marginalization. So, this time around, I am just going to speak about issues of tenders as they relate to Local Government so that you can understand that when some of us speak about issues of marginalisation, Mr. Speaker, it is just not a subject that we are happy to talk about.
We are not trying to do political mileage, we are not trying to be tribalistic but we are actually talking about something that is so serious that unless it is addressed, and I keep saying this in this House, unless we address this thing, one day we are going to be in a civil war in this country. You cannot continue to treat a particular people in a particular attitude and expect that they will not stand up to that kind of oppression.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have here, a microcosm. It is one small area of what is happening in this country. We have what has become the fastest money making business in this country which is called debt collection. Every Council basically has a department that works with issues of debt collection and what has happened is that either it is Council or
Government institutions. In this case I took Council and I took Government hospitals. I looked at Council, if you look at Councils across this country; you go to Mpilo Hospital, they use Wellcash. Wellcash is a company that is domiciled here but I went further to investigate because I am going to show you how Wellcash runs almost every other area you can think of from hospitals to Municipalities. Wellcash has four directors –[AN HON. MEMBER: Name them.] – I have them, John Mutonono, Cashington Mavunduke, Panganai Fobo and Lancilot Muswere, these are the four – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
These particular, I actually doubt and I am hearing murmours from other Members of Parliament, I doubt that given the coverage that Wellcash has, it just cannot these people, they must be some bigger force somewhere. What is interesting is that I did a comparison after having done a search on whom the directors are. I found out that Mpilo use Wellcash. I then checked with Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals and found out that they use Wellcash as well. I said okay can you also give me your names of who the directors of Wellcash are, they just gave me one Cashington Mavunduke and I even followed up and kept saying please can you give me all the others and they said that is all we have. So, the declaration as Wellcash goes to all these other places is limited depending on where they are going to.
What is worse is that when you then look at issues that are to do with Wellcash – Harare City Council had removed Wellcash again before we knew it, it was back even though the Councillors in Harare had raised concerns around Wellcash which is why I am saying there must be some link somewhere and I am hoping that the Committee on Local Government is going to go on and do this investigation. On our part as Public Accounts Committee, when we were having hearings with local authorities and we requested the issues around Wellcash, we found that it was in Mutare City Council and even in Mutasa Rural District Council. So, they do not only deal with issues of City Councils, they also deal with rural councils and my concern is even more than that discussion. If you go to the Legal Practitioners Act, the Legal
Practitioners Act is very clear on who should operate as a debt collector.
In fact from a legal point of view, what Wellcash is doing is actually illegal because the Legal Practitioners Act is very clear on who is allowed to send in a demand or send summons. You can only do it if you are a registered legal practitioner.
City Councils could have done it if they had used their legal department then that way they would have been in compliance with this. So, you actually do not just have a debt collector that has taken over the entire country but you have a debt collector that is predominately violating the law and yet in all these councils, we have a legal council that sits there, how is it possible – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – I am going to come to hospitals, how is it possible that these particular legal councils do not do anything. As for hospitals like I said, for me places like UBH and Mpilo were even more frustrating because I would have understood if they had picked somebody from the street who said I am a debtor collector Matshobane, Ncube or
Tsholonani because it would have said you are saying there is a resource in here and we are using a particular individual. My debate would be that you chose somebody who is not necessarily legal but we also know in those instances where they have actually gone and taken in lawyers. So, I have instances where Net One, Tel One and ZESA have taken in some lawyers. Mr. Speaker, if you read through, let me just take ZESA and this is why you need to understand just how much money people are making. In most instances they take up to 10% as they write in this particular letter. All you need to do is to write this letter which is badly written in English. I am going to leave this copy to you Mr. Speaker so that you read what is written here which people are being asked to pay
10% for.
All they need to do is to set up a room as a law-firm or debt collector and employ Ordinary Level school leavers who will just be filing in this and they are making 10% of each amount of money. So, just imagine the number of people that will owe ZESA. The following are the names of their debt collectors: - Chihambakwe and Partners, Danziger, Masiiwa, Muvingi, Bayera, Chakanyuka, Wintertons,
Chiganga, Ndove, Shumba, Matsika, Nyemba, Matipano, Chinamasa, Mlauzi. I do not know whether this Mlauzi is supposed to be from Matabeleland but for all intents and purposes, out of the 16 of those, you only got one from that region.
It does not make sense to me that in a country where you have Mashonaland, Manicaland, why not just find the lawyers that are resident in that particular province to do the job that is there. I am sure you have got a law-firm in that particular region. I have a number of lawyers that I know that are seasoned lawyers that have loads of practices that can be able to do that.
However, it is not happening because people know that there is a resource and that resource should just go to a particular region. The reason why I am moving this, is to begin to speak specifically to that issue because if I do not, we then just speak as if we are complaining.
So, this is the issue with your ZESA.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it my ZESA?
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Yes, both of us, our
ZESA. On Telone, it has a combination. It has the combination of the Wellcash again and those lawyers must be the richest. I actually went past their offices; you can tell there is money here. So, you have a combination of Wellcash and you also have a combination of a legal department. This is what the legal department said when I asked them – can you explain to me how you actually get to pick up your tenders?
They also have something that they call fair-stop business consultancy. They also said they get in lawyers. So, when I said, if you are going to get a law-firm what do you do? They said we do a tender.
Mr. Speaker, the Legal Practitioner Act is very clear around what you do as lawyers, you cannot tout, and you cannot respond to tenders, you cannot go and present yourself and say I am good. It defeats the whole ethics, the whole basis and yet we have a whole Telone which is basically engaged in all that.
On Netone, they have picked up on registered law-firms. When you ask them how they do it, what system they use; they then decided that this is too complicated and said we look at names and then we do a security check. So, I am not sure what that security check is about but clearly, that security check has forced them that the only companies they will deal with, are companies that come from this side of the region which are Danziger and partners, Chihambakwe and Partners, Maungwe and Maunga and Associates. All I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that it cannot be. There has to be a method in the madness. It is not possible that you want to tell me that all Law Firms that do not bear Shona names have no capacity to be taken on as debt collectors. It does not make sense to me. Just from a basic way of doing business, if I was doing business either as UBH, Mpilo or Parirenyatwa, my best thing would be to say where can I find those that are around this particular area because it is more effective and it makes more business sense. So, how is it possible that you would want to find a Chihambakwe from here to do debt collection about what is going on in Bulawayo, Hwange or Beitbridge – it does not make sense. All it means is that we now have a cartel. We have people that have seen that there is easy money. Hence, Mr. Speaker, when you go to the people that I represent they will imali tolakalangali asioni ngapa and yet they will sit there and say but we live in the same economy. We are all saying the businesses are not operating, why is it that these other people are driving better cars and doing well. They are doing well because the debt collection business is where you do not sweat Mr. Speaker. It is easy money.
So, these lawyers, particularly, do not have to go to court. They cannot sit down wasting their time doing affidavits, doing heads of arguments, when they can simply do this particular piece of paper and get 10%. All I am saying is that this is just an example of the issues around the tenders. We have bigger things. If I were to come here next week and present a particular motion around how you choose teachers, it will give you exactly the same result. If I come to you and show you how tenders around roads and infrastructure building are taking place, you will see exactly the same picture. I think we need to begin to address that in this House. We cannot continue to say, anybody who says this is tribal. You cannot continue to say if anybody raises an issue that says, there is marginalization, it is real.
The analysis that I was giving you so that I can wind up, around issues of women’s representation because remember, my motion was to speak about how women and how a particular region is marginalized. If you look at all these things that I am talking about, whether it is debt collection that has been given to places like Wellcash, you see nothing in those directors that speak to women. If it becomes the lawyers, you do not see any law firms that are owned by women. It cannot be that you are telling me that there is no capacity in law firms that are owned by women for them to be able to do this kind of job. So, we cannot sit in here and continue to pretend that we are going to do things that encourage women to participate in the economy. We cannot continue to be giving lip service to issues around equality when we have opportunities for women to be able to make some money around it – we can do it. However, what is unfortunate and this is the word that I want to leave to the Committee on Health. I think it is important that you begin to go and investigate these debt collectors that are operating. In fact they are making people’s lives more difficult. One cannot even go to hospital, what you are then doing is that if they get treated, you go back and take their Television sets, you take the little thing that they have. They are sick, now you are taking away the little thing that they have so that you can feed the fat cats. Unfortunately, for UBH and Mpilo, they are not even fat cats from your own region. They are fat cats that are coming from another region. I think they should be ashamed of themselves and they should relook at what this means. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would love to add my voice on the motion moved by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga seconded by me. Talking of marginalisation of women has gone to lengths that are unspeakable. I had an opportunity to go to my constituency on Saturday. I have a community that stays behind Killarney suburb – the oldest squatter camp in the history of Bulawayo.
Those people have been in that squatter camp for more than thirty years.
I discovered that every woman that goes to give birth at any institution, for example UBH or Mpilo hospital; when they are released from hospital for failure to pay the user fees, they are denied the baby cards. They have stopped the idea of keeping the women in hospital under lock and key because there was an outcry on that one. One can only get the baby card when the hospital fee is paid. Most of them cannot afford because they are living in a squatter camp.
The issue of marginalising women in other provinces outside Mashonaland is so sad because we have got to a stage where we are second class citizens when it comes to whatever is happening. Go to Bulawayo today, every single bank that is in Bulawayo is run by Shona speaking people – from the bank manager to the bank tellers, you name it; it is them. I went and parked my car at Bulawayo Rainbow and a young lady opened the gate for me. I was so impressed because women were now opening boom gates. I was shocked when she said, ‘Hon. Khumalo, ndokumbira munditsvagirewo basa’. I said, where do you come from? She said that she was from Marondera. I went to the Management of Rainbow and asked them if there was no one in Bulawayo who could pick and push the boom gate. We have to bring somebody from Marondera to come and do that. They said that it was the security firm that they were using and so they had no choice but had to do that.
You go to UBH today, there is a pharmacy outside which is called UBH pharmacy. When the Government hospital has a pharmacy which is not working – I went to that pharmacy and asked them if the pharmacy was an appendage of UBH. They said that it was run by an individual. I asked the person who is running the pharmacy and they said, I should go and find out from the main hospital. When I went to the main hospital administration, they sent me back to the pharmacy only to discover again that it is another Shona person who is running that pharmacy whilst UBH is a Government institution. We have a pharmacy there which has no drugs but that pharmacy has drugs out there. They do not want people to use eco-cash. They have to use swipe.
If you go to any hospital now, you will find women looking after the sick. How then on earth do they swipe when they do not even have that swipe? Why are we saying to ourselves that in Matabeleland, we are failing to get people to open a pharmacy who are qualified pharmacists? There is this notion that mandebele haadi kudzidza. This has been going on for time immemorial. Mandebele chavanongoda kungocrosser Limpopo vachidyiwa nemakarwe vakapedza Grade Seven.
Everybody talks about that.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The Hon.
Member on the floor is misleading the House on certain information. We have got so many bank managers of different tribes and no one is being marginalised. I think she needs to correct that because we have bank managers of different tribes and tongues even in the Ministry and Government departments. I think she needs to just correct that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, she has cited particular banks in Bulawayo.
HON. HOLDER: She said all banks….
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no, no. She did not say all banks everywhere in Bulawayo.
HON. HOLDER: I stay in Bulawayo and I know that is not the case –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will give you a chance to debate.
HON. HOLDER: You will give me a chance to debate?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you wind up?
HON. T. KHUMALO: Mr. Speaker, I thank Hon. Holder. That is exactly my point. Every time we raise issues about the marginalised, these are the people that come on board and tell us that what we are saying is not true. I was born and bred in Bulawayo. I know every single corner of Bulawayo.
Talking of that marginalisation, today the only infrastructure that is in Bulawayo was left by the colonizers and the pensions funds. Besides that, there is nothing. I want to go back to the issue yekuti maNdebele havadi kudzidza. Chatinoda chete kungocrosser border tonotsvaga basa kujoni. It is not true Mr. Speaker. The truth is that we have women who gave birth to children and died before obtaining identity documents.
They are failing to access identity cards now. Women have been in and out of the Registrar’s office time immemorial, looking for those identity documents. To make matters worse …
HON. MAKARI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. On a point of privilege, I do not think it is fair for the Hon. Member to use blanket statements on things that cannot be substantiated. I am looking at the motion. It has nothing to do with the tangent of tribalism that she is now trying to purport.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, your generalisation is too
elastic.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I thought I was riding on the statement that was raised by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga when she said when we talk of marginalisation, it is turned into a tribal issue. I hear you Mr. Speaker, I will make sure that I do not.
The greatest challenge that we will face as a country is the failure to understand amasikho abanye bantu lokhuti siwahlonipa. If we do not do that Mr. Speaker, there will come a time in life when people will say sokwanile . Sorry Mr. Speaker, may I be allowed to switch from English to Ndebele.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not mix up.
HON. T. KHUMALO: For me to make that impact, I want to prove a point Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are very articulate in English.
HON. T. KHUMALO: I thank you Mr. Speaker but I will keep on icing my speech with my mother tongue because I can express myself better that way. What we are saying is, time has come - the Constitution of Zimbabwe talks about devolution of power. No power has been devolved to all these provinces let alone where I come from. It is a constitutional requirement where somebody has totally ignored it because as far as they are concerned, there is no need to empower these people because we are supposed to be subservient to this cabal of people who are now running this country as a tuck-shop.
Today, if you go to Bulawayo and find out how many people have submitted tenders, you will discover not even one person from Matabeleland would have been awarded a tender. Another good example is the All Africa Games that took place in Bulawayo. People were asked to supply goods and services. Up to this date as I am speaking, everybody in Bulawayo that supplied goods and services has never been paid. As soon as the games ended everybody that came from Harare got paid. As I am speaking right now, people are still crying because they have never been paid. Why are you segregating them? They provided goods and services like any other of those people that did. What is so special about paying others and not paying others?
Mr. Speaker Sir, let us avoid another Rwanda. Let us have a united Zimbabwe that respects the 16 languages in this country. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: I had not prepared for this debate but because of the sentiments that have been aired in this debate, it has actually brought a cause of concern where we start blowing alarms where it is not necessary. I would like to thank you for allowing me to contribute to this debate. I will contribute in a very short manner because it is said, blessed are the short speeches for they shall be heard. I hope that I will be understood.
The previous speaker did mention that the marginalised people are mainly from the Ndebele speaking people. I beg to differ on a few of those issues because if we look at Barclays Bank, we have got Thabani Ncube, he is a Ndebele speaker. Ncube already tells you he is a Ndebele speaker and he runs Barclays Bank. We have Royce Sibanda, he runs
FBC. We have Mrs. Ching’ono and she runs ZB bank and they are all from Bulawayo. The reason why I am saying that is because my kids go to school in Bulawayo. I went to school in Bulawayo. I speak Ndebele, I speak Shona as well as English; a bit of Shangani and various other languages here and there – [HON NDEBELE: What are you saying?].
What I am trying to say is that I do not need to be victimised by any of these Hon. Members. I am just saying to the Hon. Member here that Ndebele people are not being marginalised. It used to be like that but since the Unity Accord and everything that has come into place with our new Constitution, I think things are working. It is all work in progress. Even if you look at the new radio stations, we have been around and they have introduced different languages in order for people to understand especially when news is being read in different languages.
We look at Parliament itself, even on the Proportional
Representation, I do not see us saying we have violated the clause. There is women’s quota system that is here. A lot of them are here and I do not need to mention which Hon. Member is from the women’s quota. They do themselves and you also know it Mr. Speaker. When we look at the marginalisation, we need to understand the difference on tribal and gender issues. If she is talking about gender, so far we have done well as a country where women are also here and they contribute significantly to this Parliament.
You will find that in most Government departments, people have been reshuffled and because people have been reshuffled, there are so many people from different parts of the country that work. The only problem that we face in certain institutions is that sometimes it is the attitudes towards work. Other than that, I think as a county and as a Parliament, we are doing pretty well in terms of being fair to each and every person. We are upholding our Constitution as parliamentarians especially on Section 119 which says that we need to uphold the Constitution. The saddest part about it is that as people in this country, in some areas people are a bit backwards. It will take them time but you can see that Government is really working hard towards empowering and making sure all nationalities are involved and also the gender aspect is also there. Even if you look at the Ministry of Youth, they are mixed.
I do not have much to say but I just wanted the Hon. Members to take note of that. I thank you.
HON. PHIRI: I also want to add my voice to the debate. I will not be very long. Mine is going to be very short. Yes, there is marginalisation in the country which has been going on for some time but most of it, I think it is more of corruption in certain places than people themselves thinking about marginalisation in terms of tribe. I want to take it from that angle. It is a disease amongst some of our own people that they look down upon other tribes, not that they do want to marginalise them but because they look down upon them.
In 1979 when I completed my course as a teacher at United
College of Education, I went to look for a job and there was a certain Education Officer in Bulawayo who was called Mr. Hadebe. We went for an interview and we were ten of us who were prospective teachers. We went there and then he said to us, bafana vekuMashonaland endai uko, vekuMatabeleland endai uko. We were actually separated. It was the mentality. Just recently, we were talking of people registering for voting and we have those who are unfortunately called aliens - [HON MEMBERS: Iwe.]- born, bred, and married here and are called aliens. Is that not tribalism? You are marginalised. The tribal mentality that some of us have - it is a disease that some of us have.
There is a lot of nepotism and corruption. If you look at some of the names that were being read here by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, if you go deeper into it, you will find that sometimes it may not be a general trend but the person who is selecting those due to the tribal disease that got into him. So it is a disease.
At one of the schools that I was at, I think it was around 1990 or somewhere thereabouts. We had an Education Officer, Mr. Speaker Sir and every year we held a party for headmasters. You know, it was very funny, that all the headmasters who were invited would be calling each other sekuru or tezvara. They were all being recruited by the Education Officer on tribal lines. I will not say which tribe but on tribal lines – it is a tribal disease. So what we need in this country, when we read books like the books that were reading from as early as Sub A when I started Sub A. You read books about Zuze and they portray Zuze as someone who is very stupid – [Laughter.] - Zuze was from Malawi or Zambia.
You listen to the radio, and even on television, look at how some television characters depicted. The Malawians and Zambians are depicted as stupid. The Malawians and Zambians are depicted as stupid – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – It is a mentality and a disease that some of our people in this country have – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - In short, I did not want to speak much. So, yes, my Hon. sister was talking of marginalisation.
Even towns, the small towns like mine in Kadoma are being marginalised in terms of growth. Yes we have 12% growth in the economy; come to Harare - there is 12%, but when you go to Kadoma there is zero – even minus. So, we need to look at this holistically and seriously because personally, I am very pained when people talk bad about other tribes – especially my own tribe. I thank you. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. RUNGANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga for her very good motion. I want to say that being a little knowledgeable as we are in this House, we should teach our people. Some of our national identification documents have names that have been mispelt…
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, please
look at me.
*HON. RUNGANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, so we should teach our children. When I was growing up, my father used to work in Bulawayo and would sing SiNdebele songs towards Christmas time. This meant that our people would travel wherever they wanted freely from Manicaland to Bulawayo, which was very good. There was no tribalism because people would travel to other areas in search of employment.
I think, if we are educated, we should teach our children to work hard and not be selective. I am surprised because other tribes are here. If I look at developmental issues, there are some areas in Masvingo which is really surprising, like in Chiredzi – they do not have school. I think you see it on television that there are no bridges and people cannot travel during the rainy season. This means that under-development is countrywide. I am saying that when our country has money, it should be equitably spread throughout the country and schools should be built. People should be knowledgeable that when they want to work every tribe should be competent to work in the banks or by the gates. We should discourage laziness and encourage people to be hardworking – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - May you please protect me Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order may we please listen to the Hon. Member.
*HON. RUNGANI: Let us teach our children, they are not your children only. Even our children abscond from school, cross over to South Africa and end up becoming thieves. This 10% consists of some of our children; they are also included there as all the tribes are there. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - I am saying all of them steal and there is no righteous percentage, all Zimbabweans steal and they are thieves.
I am saying resources should be shared equally in all the provinces and schools should be built in all the provinces so that everyone benefits. Also those areas where they are not learning Science subjects should be able to do so. With those few words, I thank you.
+HON. N. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I want to thank the Hon. Member who tabled this motion, in our own language we say, it is an important motion because everyone is talking about it.
The first thing that I want to highlight is to give an example of
Kezi. I come from Matabeleland South.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order correction, an example in SiNdebele please.
+HON. N. NDLOVU: I want to give an example of Kezi area especially where we have the people from Registry Offices issuing birth certificates. They make spelling mistakes and when people want to correct that they are asked to pay $25.00 in addition to the transportation money that they would be using. If we hire people from the same region where they are able to speak the language, they will be able to spell names correctly.
We have big shops like OK Supermarkets, I want to use the example of Choppies because I realised there are so many Indians there.
I want to use an example of OK Supermarkets…
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order is it true that there are so many Indians in Choppies?
+HON. N. NDLOVU: I am referring to Choppies in Gwanda, there are many Indians there…
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Okay, you are saying the Choppies
located in Gwanda – [Laughter.] –
+HON. N. NDLOVU: Mr. Speaker Sir, shops like OK which are
big, you will realise that they can hire anyone who does not have qualifications to do general hand work. When you ask for a trolley, you hear the person responding to you in Shona. Those are some of the things that we get worried about as people from Matebeleland.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when you go to Plumtree, you find the Kalanga people and every time when somebody is communicating with them, they want someone who speaks in their language. The same applies to the Binga people, the people from Binga or Matebeleland districts, you will realise that in whatever they will be saying, they will be using their own language but the person who is supposed to assist them will use either Shona or English. Most of the people who are in offices, especially in clinics, use the language that the people in that area are not conversant with. For example in clinics, at the end of the day, the elderly will take their tablets or any medication in a wrong way because they would have failed to understand what the nurse would have said. When you look at the universities and high schools that are there, the one that is in Gwanda, I know they say it is in Gwanda but you realise that most of the people who are in Gwanda will not be able to go there because of the few schools in that area. I am not one person who talks a lot but I realise that we have our Ministers who were elected by the President of the State. We have Hon. Vice President Mphoko and Hon. Minister Jonathan Moyo who introduced STEM. I am not sure whether they wanted to improve areas in Matebeleland for they know that in Matebeleland we have a few schools in sciences. They brought this programme when they know that in Matebeleland we do not have schools that offer science subjects. That means they had their targeted people.
To the Vice President, Hon. Mphoko, when you were appointed, we were very happy because we thought that our region was going to be empowered. However, we realise that so many times, you have given people chicks, but at the same time, there is nothing that can be used to feed the chicks. So, I do not know whether it is a way of trying to improve the region or it is just a way of giving just for record. What we are therefore requesting is that the Government should not concentrate in one area especially when they are giving tenders. For example, if it is written, Nomathemba Ndlovu, do not take someone, for example, from Murehwa. If you are giving a tender in Matebeleland, give people who are there. In addition, if our children bid for tenders, please give them that tender if they qualify. With those few words, I thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF NATIONAL
HEALING, PEACE AND RECONCILIATION (HON. MPHOKO):
Thank you Hon. Speaker. Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to speak as a Minister responsible for reconciliation and national healing. First and foremost, I think the source of our problem; there is no first born Zimbabwe, there is no Zimbabwean who is better than any other Zimbabwean. That is one point – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I am saying, there is no better Zimbabwean than any other, we are all one. If people are doing whatever they are doing, it is out of the law – [AN HON. MEMBER: or ignorance.] – or ignorance, that is correct, but we belong to this country. There are some people who want to claim that originally I come from South Africa, the Ndebeles came from South Africa, so and so came from Zambia, but the fact that we are all here, we are all Zimbabweans, clear. That is a starting point and if that Ministry is supposed to succeed, national reconciliation and so on, we have to understand that we are all equal. It does not mean that because you are Tonga, or Manyika or Muzezuru you are better than me, no, no, there is nothing like that. The moment we go into those pieces of tribes, we are finished as a country – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
So, if I can give an example during the struggle if I am allowed. When we formed what was called the Joint Military Command, ZAPU and ZANU in 1972, Chitepo and J.Z Moyo, we all said, ZANU said; ‘we are not here to be swallowed by ZAPU.’ We said, we cannot be swallowed by ZANU – [AN HON. MEMBER: But you were swallowed.] – No, no, that is your theory – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Listen. Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say and this is a fact, I have my own principles which are entrenched as a political whatever. If you swallow me, you will swallow poison, so you are wasting your time. So, we are not here to swallow each other, we are here to work together as a people. That is very critical. If we draw these lines to say this one is Mundau, Muzezuru, Mukaranga,
Mukorekore, whatever, you are finished. You can do that at home when you are doing whatever you will be doing as a family.
However, on national peace and reconciliation, you are my brother, my sister and everything, clear and straightforward – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – it means that it goes to the programmes of the country. There is no province which is less important than any other province. That is why the President says, it was an ‘act of madness.’ It must never be repeated, please that is very important. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important that we should not look at these small little things, let us concentrate on ourselves as Zimbabweans, simple and straight- forward.
What happened, somebody was talking of development and marginalisation. Those are the things that the community themselves must complain about, they must raise these things – [HON.
MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Inaudible interjections.] – Cease fire. When you come here and speak in Parliament, it is different when people are complaining in Kezi, which will demand me to be sent by the President to go and discuss the things – [AN HON. MEMBER: it is very important and it is very powerful.] – It is very important and it is very powerful. What you are saying Hon. Misihairabwi, Priscilla, we know her in Parliament, she does not have that punch, but if it was said by an old woman right in Ngezi there – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Cease fire, Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MISIHAIRABWIMUSHONGA AND HON. M. KHUMALO: Inaudible interjections.] – we travel throughout the world, I travel at my level and then let me mention for instance that there is a lady who is in the Senate who presented a case and I will be going there, that lady for instance MaNdlovu talked about something, if you insist we can go there together
no problem – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON. T. KHUMALO: Bedinga amatender, aphiwa amaShona koBulawayo.] –
No, no - [HON. MATUKE: Hon. Vice President, please do not listen to their interjections.]
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you allow the Hon. Vice President
to wind up his point of interjection.
HON. MPHOKO: What I wanted to emphasise is that there is no better Zimbabwean, I agree with what the people are saying. It is an observation which has been made but there is no better Zimbabwean than any other – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – If you are saying there are certain things which are happening which favour other people – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.] – No, no please, there is no law which says a Shona is better than a Ndau – [HON. MEMBERS: It happens.] – No. Mr. Speaker, is there any law which says a Shona is better than a Ndau, there is no law like that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, if you allow it to happen, it is your own look out. So, I am saying, I am not supporting the issue because there is no better Zimbabwean than the other, no one is better than the other, you are all Zimbabweans. Anything which comes must be distributed equally as a people – [AN HON. MEMBER: The impression is Shonas are more equal than others.] – No, you allow them. If you allow them it is your
fault – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON.
MUTSEYAMI: Sibatshaye?] – Nxa likwanisa bazalibopha – [HON.
MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA AND HON. T. KHUMALO: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: The National Reconciliation should
guide us as a people together.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Firstly, I am
very hurt because we are debating such a motion 37 years after independence. The challenges that we are facing as a nation in terms of marginalization is there and it is true. The Hon. Vice President should understand that it is not just an issue that people are happy or are angry about or that it is a show but it is a challenge that is rampant in this country. The first thing that I want to do is to thank the Hon. Member for the motion.
Firstly, a thing that touches on marginalization is how our country was liberated, looking at the role of our ancestors. In Chipinge, the ancestors that fought there were the Magigana, Sotshangane, in Makoni, there were ancestral spirits like Chingaira that fought and the others. In Matabeleland there are also ancestors that fought like Lobengula,
Mzilikazi. Zimbabweans talk as if the ancestral spirits that liberated this country came from Mashonaland only, Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi. Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi did not get to Chipinge because they had their own spirits there and in Matabeleland they were Lobengula and Mzilikazi. In Makoni there was Chingaira and Maondera. Mbuya Nehanda did not go to all these places because she was a Shona medium. We as Ndaus are told that the spirit that liberated the country is Mbuya Nehanda who never came to Chipinge and it is very bad. This should be rectified so that our children know that when we fought for this country, there were ancestral spirits from Mazezuru, Ndaus and Ndebele, it is not Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi only who liberated the whole country and that should be rectified.
Coming close to home, in terms of marginalization, we should look at the languages. I speak Ndau and there are some who speak Ndebele, Tonga, Maungwe, Shangani, Samanyika et cetera. When the language was put into place as Shona languages it touches other dialects like Hwisa, Korekore, Ndau, Zezuru. If you look closely, what they are referring to as Shona is Zezuru and in this Zezuru there is no other languages incorporated like Ndau or Ndebele and yet they say our national language is Shona. Those things should be rectified as we go on as a nation. That on its own is marginalization because if you come across a Ndau, the children coming from Chipinge, Checheche coming to the university, they will struggle to speak Chindau.
HON. MATUKE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MATUKE: I am just reminding my fellow Members of
Parliament that our Constitution addressed all those issues because we need to abide with the Constitution and make sure that we put it into practice. So, the languages are all covered in the Constitution.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Chief Whip, if you want to
debate, debate there is no point of order there – [Laughter.] – Can we stick strictly to the motion particularly the prayer, A,B,C prayer, if we could stick to that.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I had been side
tracked but I can find my way. Looking at marginalization Mr. Speaker, if you go along the major roads in this country, you will find that there is no highway network which has more potholes than the one from Birchenough Bridge Tanganda up to Chiredzi. If you want, you can send anyone, there is no road like that. That should be looked at with urgency so that people will realise that they are being looked at as people; that they are given all the respect due to them and that yes, we are at the boarder of the country but we are known that we exist. That is my plea.
Not that we can be comfortable that our roads in Chipinge are fine. People think that if it were not because of the missionaries who came and constructed a hospital at St Peters; if they had not come to our rescue, today we would be in deep problems. I think that should be rectified. I do not want to say more, I just wanted to touch on the issue of ancestral spirits and national languages.
I would like to repeat Mr. Speaker, what people talk about. I visited Binga on a tour, on a Parliament Business, Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services Committee. I saw that Binga is a big place in Zimbabwe but if you look at it closely, it is being neglected deep down – and that is where our Hon. Speaker comes from.
THE HON. SPEAKER: On a point of order! I come from
Hwange. My mother was born in Binga but I come from Hwange.
*HON MUTSEYAMI: So, this means that our Hon. Speaker is
Nambia and Tonga.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Even in Hwange there are a lot of
Tongas there!
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. When I went to Binga, we were a mixed bag, the MDC and ZANU PF. We were travelling as children of Zimbabwe but we realised that Binga should be given first priority when it comes to development, it is so backward. To think that they are enjoying the honey and milk of Zimbabwe, that is very far because there is nothing in terms of development, I was hurt by that. So, I am pleading with you Mr. Speaker that any platform that you get, even when you get the opportunity to meet the Executive, I think you should bring Binga on the table because the opposition will come to pass one day.
I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to support this motion. I am sure whatever I have debated will be of value and would lead us to help the people in Chiredzi, Chipinge and Binga and that there should be a correct history of the ancestors who liberated us. We were liberated by a number of spirit mediums not just one.
+HON. G.M NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was brought in this House by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga. In my contribution Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasise on what was said by the Vice President where he highlighted that it is important to note that Zimbabwe is one. Yes, we can differ in what he was saying or where we come from but Zimbabwe – we are one nation. This does not stop us from seeing the mistakes that are there in the nation especially on the issue of segregation in how we live. Yes, we might not see it in a naked eye but there is a lot that is happening behind closed doors which has caused people to think that maybe there is segregation that is there based on where you stay. I am talking this as someone who comes from
Matabeleland. There are so many things that I can give evidence where I can say most people from Matabeleland when they look at, can easily pick that there is something that is not going on well.
We had an opportunity after we got our independency, in
Matabeleland South, we realised that there was not much of development that was there because of the misunderstandings that were happening in the country. People expected that when we got our independence, the Government was supposed to close one eye and concentrate much in Matabeleland so that they can develop the region. Up today, there is not much improvement in that area. I am talking about issues to do with improving the nation. For example the road from Bulawayo to Nkayi, the road has not been rehabilitated up to now. The work has been in progress for so long. This, therefore, makes the people from Matabeleland South feel that they are being segregated.
When I heard the issue to do with the water project from Zambezi to Bulawayo; when you follow the history of this project, you will realise that it started in 1932, up to now the project has not commenced. I am not even talking about talking commencing of the project but at least to have a drop of water from Zambezi to Bulawayo. As I speak, there is the issue of the Dam in Masvingo, the Tokwe Mukosi Dam. The project was started recently and it has been completed but when we compare with what is happening in Matabeleland for example, the Gwayi-Shangani Dam, people are looking at all these things and when they see something that is wrong, at the end of the day they will point fingers to the Government.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I grew up under the hands of the late father Joshua Nkomo who was father to everyone. Most of the times when he was contributing, he would emphasise on people forming a unity and he would say when we become united we would be able to build the nation. Most of the time when we fail to unite people, at the end of the day, we will cause civil wars. It is important, therefore as the leaders of today to have a look at these things so that the people that we are leading, when they highlight that there are certain things that they are not happy with, we correct them so that at the end of the day it does not cause disagreement. We saw it yesterday when the Vice President was saying what happened way back was just a state of unstableness but when such things happen at the end of the day, we realise that we have such misunderstandings which will cause havoc.
Someone gave an example of a person who takes someone and puts them in a toilet, lock it up and say you are not going out of this place. Most of the time, you can say that it is the grass that suffers when two elephants fight but at the end of the day, even the elephant will suffer and not the grass only. Our wish therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, is what the people that we are leading have expressed that they are not happy with. It does not help for us to say that it is not there and deny its existence. If it is there, it is there. We should face it and try to sort it out. It does not help to say you are looking at a goat that is moving up and down with its tail up and you are asking whether it is male or female. Things have gone wrong and we should acknowledge and try to fix that. We all know that things are not well in our company. Therefore, there is no need for someone to deny it and there is no need for someone to ask. It is very crystal clear.
I know that even as I am contributing in Ndebele, there are some Hon. Members who are Ndebele but they are asking each other what exactly I am saying. I come from Tsholotsho in Nyamubambile and I grew up in Bulawayo but if you take me and put me in Chipinge or any part of the world, I understand everything that they are saying. I do not have a problem with that.
I would like to give you an example; I was once sent by my party to Masvingo and I went right round all the constituencies in Masvingo. When they said they were going to look for an interpreter, I told them that I am a Zimbabwean and I do not need an interpreter. I spoke to the people of Masvingo in their own language that they understand. What I know is that they were able to understand all that I was saying. Why then do we have other people who are coming from Zimbabwe who do not want to learn the other language that is being spoken in Zimbabwe when they come from Zimbabwe? What is the reason for that?
In my own view, when we give birth to children, we give them the intuition where we are saying when you are born on this side of the country, you are better than someone who is coming from the other side of the country. When I was still working, we used to say that the Ndebeles talk about tribalism but the Shonas practice tribalism.
Therefore, there is a difference between someone who is talking about something and someone who is doing it practically. This is because the Ndebele talk a lot about tribalism and the Shonas do it. At the end of the day, it is only the person who will talk about it who is seen mostly.
There is one factory in Bulawayo where the manager was coming from Mashonaland. When one person lost one of their relative who was said to be an uncle, the whole factory was closed because everyone who worked in that factory was a relative of the manager. Such things exist Mr. Speaker Sir. Yes, we can deny and say this does not exist but it will not solve the problem that is there. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): I move that the
debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 4th October, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE
PRESIDENT MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI), the
House adjourned at Twenty One Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 28th September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE ACTING SPEAKER
INVITATION TO THE LIAISON AND COORDINATION
COMMITTEE RETREAT
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): I have
to inform the House that all Chairpersons of Committees are invited to the Liaison and Coordination Committee retreat (LCC) to be held at Holiday Inn in Bulawayo from 6th to 9th October, 2017. Travel arrangements will be communicated in due course.
PETITION RECEIVED FROM THE INSTITUTE FOR
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ZIMBABWE
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have to advise the House that on the 20th of September 2017, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from the Institute for Community Development Zimbabwe (ICODZim) beseeching Parliament to exercise its oversight function and protect the constitutionally guaranteed rights of persons with disabilities to participate fully in the electoral process.
The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CASH SHORTAGES AND BANK CHARGES
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, last
Wednesday during the Question and Answer Session, I was subjected to a barrage of questions pertaining to street vending of currency, cash shortages and bank charges. I then promised the august House to give a
Ministerial Statement and I am now taking the opportunity to do so now.
Let me, in the first instance, just recall the issues which were raised and these were as follows:
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Mapiki wanted firstly to know Government policy regarding agents who are charging 35% on Ecocash withdrawals. Secondly, he wanted to know what Government is going to do with regards to people who are selling cash at 35% premium through bank transfers. As a supplementary question, he asked if there is a policy which outlaws these money laundering practices. He also wondered whether we have mandatory prison terms for these people involved in money laundering practices – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members. It is you Hon. Members who pleaded with the Minister that you wanted him to give a Ministerial Statement but now he is addressing the House and you are busy talking. That is not fair.
HON. CHINAMASA: Hon. Mapiki also wondered whether we
have mandatory prison terms for these people involved in money laundering.
Hon. Chibaya asked why there are lots of queues of people wanting to withdraw money at banks and yet if you go to Road Port, people have trunks full of money and yet they are never arrested or questioned. He also asked how they manage to accumulate such funds when banks have nothing to give to depositors who want to make withdrawals.
Further, Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Munengami asked me to include in my Ministerial Statement the issue about usage of the bond notes and their exchange rate to the United States Dollar (1:1). Thirdly, he also wanted me to touch on the issue relating to the $200 million facility from Afrexim Bank and the envisaged further US$300 million facility. Fourthly, the issue of the appointment of an independent body to oversee the issuance f the bond notes. Lastly, he made the remark that bond notes had failed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Zindi wanted to know the justification of charges of $30.00 on each Point of Sale machine (POS) in all businesses that are using the swipe system in terms of payments. She asked the justification for that $30 per month being charged by banks to all retailers who are using those POS machines and if such charges are not exploitation? As a supplementary question, Hon. Zindi asked if the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, in conjunction with the Reserve Bank, gives guidance to commercial banks in terms of how much charges they should charge in transactions with their clients.
Hon. Holder alluded to prices of commodities that are going up at a very high rate and asked what policy Government has put in place to control inflation. Hon. Mliswa acknowledged the shortage of foreign currency in the country and that any foreign currency which is to leave the country has got to be prioritised.
With your indulgence, Mr. Speaker Sir, I will proceed and give the Ministerial Statement to address the above issues raised and other related issues.
A.Causes of Cash Shortages
Mr. Speaker Sir, shortages of cash reflect the imbalance/mismatch of US dollars in bank accounts and physical cash in the economy. Physical is comprised of US dollars, bond notes and other currencies in circulation in the country.
This cash shortage reflects the negative perennial trade imbalance wherein our imports are more than exports by exports around US$3 billion on a yearly basis. So, we need to target our policies to reduce our trade balance.
The shortage of cash also reflects the poor circulation of money in the economy due to lack of confidence, discipline as well as rent seeking behaviour among our people.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is one billion of physical cash in circulation made up of 180 million dollars in bond notes, 28 million dollars in bond coins and US800 million. We consider this one billion to be sufficient if it was circulating efficiently. The $1 billion translates to around 15% of deposits which is international best practice in normal economies.
- Measures being taken to resolve the Low Circulation of
Money
- The Reserve Bank has been involved in a sustained promotion of the use of plastic, mobile and other electronic means of payments. To this end, I am encouraged to report that more than 75% of retail transactions are now conducted through the use of non-cash payment streams, which include point of sale (POS), mobile money and RTGs. Mobile money includes Ecocash, Telecash, One Wallet and others.
- I am appending to this Ministerial Statement, tables which show in volumes and value, electronic transfers by category between the years 2009 and 2017. Just to take one example - in 2009 RTGs transfers were 688,288 whereas in 2017 these are 5,351,491. Total electronic transfers moved from 1,665,010 in 2009 to 744,262,931 in 2017. In value terms RTGs transactions were $6.8b in 2009 and have jumped to
$56.3b in 2017. Total value of electronic transactions moved from
$6.8774b in 2009 to $80.0026b in 2017.
Payment Statistics (volume)
2009 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017
(annualised) |
|
RTGS | 688,288 | 2,179,407 | 2,062,614 | 2,901,664 | 5,361,491 |
CHEQUE | 21,100 | 289,993 | 361,732 | 347,735 | 331,634 |
POS | 398,986 | 8,708,997 | 14,543,294 | 53,407,464 | 181,251,082 |
ATMS | 330,817 | 6,782,507 | 13,413,304 | 12,332,547 | 9,676,985 |
MOBILE | 201,034 | 19,957,472 | 228,202,695 | 298,586,190 | 544,131,600 |
INTERNET | 24,785 | 325,514 | 560,209 | 1,110,366 | 3,510,140 |
TOTAL | 1,665,010 | 38,243,890 | 259,143,848 | 367,685,967 | 744,262,931 |
Payment Statistics (value $)
2009 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017
(annualised) |
|
RTGS | 6.8 billion | 38.7billion | 44.9billion | 48.1billion | 56.3billion |
CHEQUE | 5.1 million | 72.6million | 144.1million | 113.1million | 75.5million |
POS | 9.3 million | 741.8million | 1,723million | 2,898.4million | 5,775.3million |
ATMS | 21.1 million | 1,624million | 3,854.3million | 2,283.5million | 540.4million |
MOBILE | .6 million | 381.6million | 4,645.9million | 5,815.9million | 11,767.9million |
INTERNET | 23.5million | 1,102.1million | 1,614.1million | 2,503.9million | 5,503.4million |
TOTAL | 6,877.4 m | 42,640.8 m | 56,850.3 m | 61,734.2 m | 80,002.6 m |
- Speaker Sir, in order to deal with the scourge of people buying and selling cash on the streets, Government has today gazetted Exchange Control (Amendment) Regulations enacted by His Excellency the President, in terms of Section 2 of the Exchange Control Act. These Regulations will empower the police to arrest anyone trading in currency without a licence; as such itis an offence. Further, it will allow the police to seize the cash found on a possessor of currency suspected of dealing in currency. This seized currency will be deposited at the Central Bank pending prosecution so that the cash will be held as an exhibit. The regulations also provide for freezing of funds of a corresponding value in a financial institution where such proceeds are the subject of a suspected case of dealing in currency. The penalties for the offence of trading in currency are contained in the Exchange Control Act and empower the Court to impose a fine not exceeding the value of the currency and a sentence of imprisonment not exceeding 10 years. In addition to the penalty the Court can impose a fine of three times the value of the currency.
- Additionally, the Reserve Bank is also enforcing the regulations promulgated under the Bank Use Promotion Act, which require all traders to bank their surplus cash. The Regulations require traders to accept all modes of payment modalities and prohibits multiple pricing which has become rampant within the economy.
- Speaker Sir, we are also working on the amendment to the Bank Use Promotion Act to strengthen its powers and these amendments whose Principles were approved by Cabinet shall be presented to this august House in the next few weeks. My plea is that when these amendments are tabled, Hon. Members will give them expeditious passage.
- Government is providing an export Incentive Scheme to enahance export competitiveness designed to reduce the trade imbalance.
C. Bank Charges
- With respect to bank charges Mr. Speaker Sir, the Reserve Bank has put in place levels of charges which both merchants and banks should charge for POS transactions. I have again appended a Table reflecting the Reserve Bank guidelines on these charges.
Bank Charges
Service | New charges inclusive of $0.05tax for Transactions up to $500 |
ZETSS (RTGS) | Maximum $5 |
ZIPIT(Electronic Funds Transfer) | $0.33 to a maximum of $2.10 |
POS transactions up to $10 | $0.10 |
POS transactions up above $10 | $0.42 |
POS own bank customer | Maximum of $0.20 |
Cash withdrawal | 1.25% Of the amount over the counter (OTC) |
ATM Card withdrawal | 1% of the amount |
Merchant Service Commission | $0.00 to a maximum 1% for local transactions |
Monthly administration or service fee | $0.00 to a maximum $5 for individuals |
- I am also appending a Table reflecting RBZ guidelines on
Mobile Financial Services Tariff Benchmarks.
Approved Mobile Financial Services Tariff Benchmarks
Service | New charges inclusive of $0.05 tax for Transactions up to $500 |
Send money to registered customers (person to person) | $0.00 to a Maximum of $3,00 |
Send Money to Unregistered customers (Person to Person) | Should be less than or equal to sum of send money and cash out for registered customers |
Bill and Merchant Payment | $0.00 to a Maximum of $1.50 |
Bank to Wallet | 1% of the amount |
Wallet to Bank | $0.43 (Ecocash charge) |
- Speaker Sir, the allegations of banks and merchants overcharging has been brought to our attention and we continue monitoring to ensure compliance. It is important to highlight that the POS machines are owned by banks and their prices range from US$100 to US$300. The RBZ is prioritising the importation of POS machines. From the statistics, we note that there has been a 189% increase in the number of POS machines from 16.363 in 2015 to 47,362 by end July 2017. We are still going to increase and import POS machines so that there is no excuse for not using them. Members of the Public should report to the RBZ excessive charges levied by Banks on POS machines.
D. High Ecocash Charges
- Mr. Speaker Sir, as highlighted above, agreed charges are shown in the Table which is appended to this Ministerial Statement. Extra charges being levied by merchants and agents over and above the agreed levels are illegal and the public being abused by these agents should report to Econet and the RBZ.
E. Multiple Pricing
- Mr. Speaker Sir, as alluded to above, the Bank Use Promotion and Suppression of Money Laundering Act [Chapter 24:24] is being amended in line with Cabinet approval to deal decisively with the issue of multiple pricing. The Bill shall be presented to this august
House in the coming few weeks. But it has to be recognised that generation of foreign currency is very key to the resolution of our economic challenges.
F. Selling of Money on the Streets
- Speaker Sir, the selling of money on the streets is not legal and it reduces the circulation of money in the formal sectors of the economy. Selling of money at a profit without a licence is illegal. It is against this background that a Statutory Instrument under the Exchange Control Act has been gazetted to avoid the dealing in cash by unlicenced dealers and traders and to clarify the law on the matter.
- Relating to the pictures and videos of wads of bond notes which have been circulating on social media, investigations are being carried out to establish the sources of the new bond notes in the street. My Ministry and the RBZ do not participate in buying currency from the streets. You may be aware Hon. Members of Parliament that Mrs. Tariro Nyazema of Stanbic was caught red-handed, two or so months back with US$30 000 that she had exchanged for bond notes at one of the bank’s branches. It is therefore our suspicion that this malpractice could be what is happening at other banks working in cahoots with unscrupulous traders and retailers. All of us should also be policemen and women. If we come across these practices, please report to the Police, Reserve Bank and the banks.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is for this reason that the RBZ is investigating all banks to root out this malpractice. The RBZ is also closing the net on the culprits captured in the video clips doing the rounds on social media, in the same way that they managed to cause the arrest of Tinashe Sikwila – the driver who was circulating the bond coin invoice from the South African Mint.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Reserve Bank is also in the process to ensure artisanal gold miners who are paid in U.S dollar cash and bond notes ($5 million weekly) for their export incentive are not abusing the cash they are being paid by Fidelity Printers and Refiners and by banks. ZB bank is an agent for Fidelity Printers and Refiners and it receives delivery of gold at most of its branches and pays artisanal miners in cash, a demand which has also come from this august House that we should try to ease the load of artisanal miners. I am pleased to advise Hon. Members that small scale gold producers delivered 1.5 tonnes to Fidelity Printers and Refiners in August 2017, which is the highest monthly delivery by this sector since independence. With large scale producers, total gold delivery to Fidelity Printers and Refiners in August was 2.5 tonnes.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I have already stated, Government has introduced measures through the Exchange Control [Amendment]
Regulations, 2017 enacted by His Excellency the President in terms of Section 2 of the Exchange Control Act [Chapter 22:05]. These measures will provide for the following:
- Trading in currency without a licence is an offence;
- The regulations make it clear that anyone who deals in currency as a commodity either at a premium or at a discount commits an offence;
- The regulations further provide for the seizure of cash found on a possessor of currency suspected of dealing in currency. This
seized currency will be deposited under the control of the RBZ pending prosecution so that the cash will be held as an exhibit;
- The regulations also provide for freezing of funds in a bank account of a corresponding value in a financial institution where such proceeds are the subject of a suspected case of dealing in currency.
I have already outlined the penalties Mr. Speaker Sir.
G. Export Incentive: Afrexim Bank Facility of $200m
Mr. Speaker Sir, with $180 million in bond notes already issued towards the export scheme, the $200 million facility is about to be exhausted and the Reserve Bank is negotiating a further export incentive to the tune of $300 million in order to continue boosting exports which have responded and grown by 12% to $2,334 billion as at 8 September compared to $2,086 billion for the comparable period last year.
H. Independent Currency Board
The introduction of an Independent Currency Board to oversee issuance of bond notes was abandoned. It was realised that there were sufficient mechanisms in place to carry out this function, namely an
Audit Committee of the Reserve Bank Board chaired by the Vice
Chairman who is an independent member of the board.
I. Bond Notes
Mr. Speaker Sir, as to the allegation that bond notes have failed, I categorically state that this is not the case. Their issuance has helped boost production and exports besides providing a medium of exchange which cannot be externalised. The problem is basically low circulation of currency through lack of discipline and confidence. What is gravely required at this juncture is to enhance export productive capacity so as to increase exports.
J. Inflation
A question was asked about what measures we are taking to manage inflation. Barring the incident which took place on Saturday 23rd September, 2017 where falsehoods were peddled through social media and triggered panic buying and a hike in prices of basic commodities, inflation as at end of August, 2017 stood at 0,14% the lowest in the SADC region. The SADC benchmark for inflation is between 3% and 7%. From recent developments, it was evident that the economy has come out of deflation or negative inflation (which is a good thing). We were not in a good position to remain in a state of deflation. We have come out of it and we now have to worry about managing inflation. All our efforts and policies will be intended to manage inflation. It is very clear Mr. Speaker Sir, that the economy is now on a recovery path and is inducing demand in the market. As we go forward, efforts will be made to manage this trend so that inflation is contained to manageable levels. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you very much Hon. Minister
of Finance for the Statement. My first clarification is to do with the fact that you have not addressed what measures Government is going to take to deal with the prices that have already been increased. If you look at the price levels, especially the prices of basic commodities in the shops, they have sky rocketed by 35% to 40%. What are you going to do to make sure that those prices return to their previous levels before the sudden spike? Also, the same applies to fuel supplies. The fuel stations are still very dry. What measures have you put in place to make sure that we are going to have adequate fuel supplies?
Having raised those issues, I wish also to say that the parallel market is a symptom of a problem. It is not the cause of a problem; it is a symptom of a deeper structural problem in the economy. This structural problem is simply the fact that the demand for cash or money balances is exceeding supply. Unless and until we deal with that structural problem, yes putting legislation and fighting crime is well and good but the fundamental problem still has to be tackled. In an economy where you have dollarised or you have chosen to use multi-currency system which is primarily anchored by the US dollar, the best approach is to make sure that the supply of US dollars is increased. We have to address supply chain or route of the US dollars and in our case there are about five methods by which the US dollar can be supplied.
The major thing is export or export promotion. When the bond notes were introduced, we were told that a 5% export incentive was going to generate US$6bn at the end of the stream, that is what we were told. The estimation was that by December this year - I am in the Budget and Finance Committee and that is what we were told by the Governor. Hon. Mukwangwariwa here can attest to that. We need to make sure that our exports are supported and boosted.
The second thing is that we have to revisit the issue of investment. It is very key. We might ignore that fact but investment is very key. If you look at the sub-Saharan African countries which are registering investment levels of US$3bn to US$5bn and we are only at half a billion. we need to address that angle of investment promotion. That is where there is need for policy consistency and policy clarity with regards to indigenisation and it is very important. We have to be clear on this policy so that it does not act as an elephant in the living room when it comes to investment.
The other source of foreign currency is of course the diaspora. Diaspora remittance, I believe are now clocking US$1bn annually. We must continue to structure investment vehicles for the diasporans so that they can find it attractive and easier to remit their currencies into the country.
The fourth source is of course the money which comes through NGOs, Embassies and so on and so forth which again is almost approaching a US$1 billion every year. These are measures which you can continue to explore to increase the supply of the US$ which dominates the multiple currency.
I am not too sure whether the introduction of the bond notes has made any impact because if it has not triggered the necessary US dollar supply through the incentive scheme, if it has not done so, what has it managed to assist us with? If it is not available in the banks for withdrawal, what purpose has it been serving? I just want you to clarify to us the purpose of the bond, what really it is serving because everybody is complaining despite the much sought after relief from the bond note.
The last point is that, yes laws are important but let us deal with the market first because the market is rebellious. You can have laws like we did with the Pricing and Competition Commission during those years. Clampdown, yes we can but the market will determine the fundamentals and levels of the US dollar. So, what the market has told you is that the US dollar is not 1:1 with the bond. That is the message that the market has demonstrated. This is why if I want to pay my foreign payments, the bank will ask me to supply them with foreign currency. It is a statement that this parity is fallacious. It does not exist. I hope we can begin to address the proper value and exchange rate of the US dollar rather than pretend that it is still 1:1 with the bond. I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. Just
one clarification from the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic
Development, whilst we appreciate your temporary efforts to make sure that there is sanity in the economy, I want to find out whether Government or this nation is contemplating introducing its own currency. If so, how soon?
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving
me the opportunity to ask the Minister. I would like to thank the Minister for his efforts but I would like to find out further, the Minister has alluded to the fact that the bulk of the money or the currency that is in circulation is in US dollar formation. What is Government doing differently to ensure that we reduce or minimise leakages because this US dollar is fluid. It is getting out at every stage, how are we going to ensure that the money that you put in circulation remains circulating or going to the bank and back to the people?
HON. DR. KHUPE: First of all, I would like to thank the Minister for responding to the call by this House for him to bring a Ministerial Statement on issues which are of concern to many people. I would like to begin by saying that I think we are scratching where it is not itching because what is required in this country is new money. New money can only come from production. What is happening right now as we speak, a lot of money is leaving this country going to other countries. We are a supermarket of other countries. Money is going out there and there is no money which is coming into this country. What we require is production. We want the manufacturing sector to start operating at 100% of its normal productive capacity and start producing so that we are able to export and bring in new money.
We want the agricultural sector to also operate at 100% of its normal productive capacity so that we generate foreign currency – we export and bring money into the country. We want the mining industry to also start operating, mine, value add, export and bring in new money. We must move away from being primary producers to secondary producers because this is what is killing us as a country.
Secondly, Mr. Speaker Sir, corruption is a cancer which has destroyed this country. Corruption is sending the majority of our citizens to the deep end of poverty. It has destroyed the social fabric of our societies. Anti corruption efforts in this country are governed by eight laws but I have not seen a single person who has been arrested under those eight laws. We have every tool and arsenal to arrest people who are corrupt but we are not doing it. Corruption must be stopped by all means necessary.
What this country requires and the Minister raised that issue, is confidence building. I am appealing to all Zimbabweans and the Government that we have a free, fair and credible election; an election which is not going to be disputed. Once an election is not going to be disputed, you are going to gain confidence as a country. Investors will come in their thousands, bring in new money and we will start producing, and this country will have new money. I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order please. I have already recognised Hon. Mliswa. Order Hon. Members.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me first of all thank the Minister for the Ministerial Statement that he brought to us when things are a bit skewed right now from an economic point of view. I applaud the Minister that despite the challenges that the country faces, you are prepared to discharge your duties professionally. I must really say that from the bottom of my heart. You are really trying and in trying, you must also be working with others.
First of all, I have just come from the Heroes Acre. What the Minister said is in total contradiction of what the President said. The President was very clear in that...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members to my left. Ah,
Hon. Chamisa, the third highest authority in the MDC.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Sorry Mr. Speaker, we are arranging the
sitting positions.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: No please.
HON. MLISWA: The Head of State who is the Commander in
Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces was very clear in that the problem with the economy is within his party and Government where there are saboteurs. He labeled this to people within the Government and within the party whom he said are saboteurs. So, to me he is not talking about this. He is talking about saboteurs within his team. This is where the problem of the economy is. Categorically, he was very clear about it and even warned that they will soon be flushed out. So, I am looking forward to them being flushed out and then we will see a proper economy because that is where the problem is.
The other issue is fiscal indiscipline. 95% of the fiscus is going to salaries and if I am not mistaken, over 90% is going towards salaries. There is no way any economy would take off 95% going to salaries. It is impossible. This is a figures’ game where you do not even argue. So, how do you justify that the economy is on a rebound when 95% is going towards salaries. The Minster has tried to cut down the Government civil servants as per IMF recommendations. The IMF is quite critical in the revival of the economy. If you play ball with them, they are able to open doors. They have closed the doors and in closing the doors, there are certain conditions which they have set.
One of the issues the Minister was supposed to deal with was to cut down on the civil servants to about 50%. That has not been done. I would want to find out from the Minister how far he has gone in cutting down on the civil servants to 50%? What we have is a situation where the Minister with due respect, is working hard to try and cut down on the civil servants and there comes an interface rally where 2 000 youth who are fired are reinstated. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- How honestly can this be?
The Minister is trying and he has no choice. He has to listen to the Head of State. He has to rehire the 2 000 people who have been fired because the Minister saw it fit that they were not beneficial to the economy. This is just excess baggage and we must get rid of it. That excess baggage is eating back into the economy. How surely can the economy take off with such indiscipline? I do not even know how many more will be reinstated with these two remaining interfaces. I wait to see.
So, already the money that is supposed to go to the intended Ministries and get the economy going, we are now back again. So, three steps forward and ten steps backwards. I do not know how the Minister will respond to that but I would want him to respond to that. Also on the aspect of exports, the Minister is right in saying that the export must be up there. I would like to know how much because you spend what you have. How much are we exporting and from what we are exporting, then we are able to spend.
If the amount of money we have to export is more than we are spending, this is figures and it means we are going nowhere. It is pretty clear. There has got to be the aspect of production that has got to be consistent with what we are exporting and so forth. I would like to know how much we are exporting and how that money is being ploughed back into the economy for production. I go back to the fiscal discipline of saying in terms of priority with the shortage of foreign currency, what is it on the priority list which is critical to the resuscitation of the
economy?
Is it Rolls-Royce, luxury goods, Ministers going out for trips or is it Executives going outside for health care when our own PSMS in this country is owed $180 million. In talking to them they said if we get a third of that, we will have the state of the art hospitals and the best doctors. No one needs to go anywhere for seeking treatment with us giving them a third of that. We have not done that but that money is diverted to other countries where there are doctors.
A good example is that a friend of mine had his mother who needed surgery in the U.K. In needing surgery in the U.K., they said we are waiting for a doctor. Mr. Speaker Sir, two days they were waiting for the doctor and this was a Zimbabwean doctor who had come to do surgery in the U.K. So, this is how sad it is. All they were saying is that we are waiting for a doctor and the doctor came from Zimbabwe. I am saying we have the human resource capital to have state of the art hospitals and people treated especially from the security aspect.
Our country and our leaders are security conscious and I do not know why they trust outside doctors and not the doctors within. There is more security here and it is better. You have that situation as well in terms of us having a better life. I also want to talk about the aspect of indigenisation, the inconsistency of FDI. How much FDI has come in?
Hon. Khupe just said that there is got to be confidence in the economy.
Confidence comes about when there is consistency in the policy by the Government. You have Ministers issuing conflicting statements.
The Minister is trying very hard to do what he is supposed to do. It takes the President to now intervene but damage would have been created already and no one wants to bring in the money. So, there is policy inconsistency. The indigenisation structure has got to be revisited. Whether we like or not, it is good to empower people but not where our people suffer. In fact, that empowerment has ended up empowering individuals it is not broad-based. The empowerment initiative has not been broad-based but it has empowered individuals. In empowering individuals, is it what it was intended for? I thought it was broad-based and not individually based, but it has gone individually. So, we do not need some policies which will stifle proper investment into the country.
We now go to the TBs. This is where it is. TBs are printed and how much have been printed, and against what? This is critical. You cannot keep on printing TBs yet there is nothing that is coming in. This is where things have gone peer shaped. These printed TBs, where has the money gone to? If it has gone to production, there has got to be accountability where the TB money printed has gone to. There has got to be accountability and the Minister must tell us a figure. If it is a billion, where has it gone? This much has gone to command agriculture which has been successful and this much has gone to other sectors of the economy. We need to know that. So, the TBs are important in us and then we also want to know the overdraft the Government has with RBZ, how much is it? We cannot just borrow and not ask how much the overdraft is. There is no way you can have an account with a bank and just go and borrow when you do not know how much your overdraft is, where it is standing so that the figures that he is telling us are able to match what we owe. There is no point Hon. Members of Parliament of being told what you owe and what you must pay back when you do not have a figure. It is impossible.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa. Earlier on I said anyone who needs clarification from the Minister would seek it from the Minister. Let us avoid debates, rather ask the Minister for clarification where you did not get it clearly.
HON. MLISWA: My point of clarification was on how much we owe in the overdraft. Thank you very much. I also want to ask Hon.
Minister in terms of the domestic resource mobilisation. As Members of Parliament, we went and had workshops in terms of domestic resource mobilisation, how far have we gone in that? It is important for us because it is a presentation that he gave which he assured that it will also help in getting the economy going – [HON. NDEBELE: Inaudible interjection.] – I also want to…
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Ndebele, you did not leave your seat to go there and make noise, you were shouting there, I could hear you from this end, be respectable.
HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, Command Agriculture has been a success because there is no more importation of grain, but how has it aided the manufacturing, there has got to be a spin-off. Whilst we have saved money in importing grain, I have not seen industry taking off. To me, from a manufacturing point of view, we now have to see activity because we are saving money on the importation of maize, that money must be found being used in other sectors of the economy like manufacturing. I would like to find out from the Minister from a current point of view, the fact that command agriculture has been successful, where do they intend to put the money that was saved to import maize, which industry is going to benefit?
Lastly, I equally want to say to the Minister, with all due respect, you can only spent what you have and there is the aspect of corruption. I do not know how your Ministry is working with other stakeholders to curb corruption. The high level of corruption has gone to unprecedented levels, I do not see us doing anything about it, it is as good as us just saying we have failed and those who are more corrupt are becoming more powerful by having the money that they have. They have manipulated the system; they cannot be arrested and so on. It is now a cancerous situation which I must admit is beyond repair. Even the
President comes to Parliament all the time and addresses zero-tolerance on corruption but no one has ever been arrested. It has become a talk show, which I believe the show must be closed now. There is no point in barking like dogs.
People are tired, even people from outside cannot come and invest in a country where no one has never been arrested for corruption yet it is just at a higher level. The big boys are enjoying, they do not care, they control the system, and they have money and so on. It is pretty sad that the aspect of corruption has not been dealt with. For as long as it is not dealt with, no one will put in money in an economy where people who are corrupt are not being arrested. The Minister must try and clarify this on how his Ministry has worked with other Ministries to curb down on corruption if ever he is going to. Thank you.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir. I am very grateful to the Hon. Members for their contributions, all of which are valid. The only difference we have is that some of us think that these problems can be solved over night. I look at it as a process and it is a long process and we have to remain steadfast in pursuing the solutions to problems that have gone for a long time without being attended to.
So, we all recognise the problems and in fact, we agree on the solutions. What remains now is to implement those solutions in a steadfast manner, with diligence and without any deviation. However, it is a process and not an event. I think this is where I differ with Hon. Mashakada who thinks that it can be done overnight; it is a process. I have already mentioned in my statement, that already, through the issuance of bond notes, we have been able to generate 12% more exports this year. That is a fact; the Reserve Bank has all the acquittals. All the economic indicators do not justify what happened on Saturday. Gold production is up, in fact, there is now a record produced by artisanal miners. Platinum production is up, ferrochrome is up and I will tell you where the problem is.
Mr. Speaker Sir, coal production, through capitalizing Hwange
Colliery, we have been able to move coal production from a low of 30
000 per month to over 300 000 a month in August. Those who come from Hwange can see what is happening there. We have taken steps to reorganise the diamond sector and it is beginning to look up. We get weekly reports on diamond production, all the diamonds are under the control of the Reserve Bank and being treated in the same manner we treat gold. All those things cannot happen overnight, it is a process.
In the diamond sector, we capitalise ZCDC US$80 million to put right their systems and also to import machinery appropriate for conglomerate mining. That machinery is arriving and we expect that in October, conglomerate mining can begin. By the end of the year, we are confident Mr. Speaker Sir, that we would have exceeded last year’s diamond production this year.
However, let me come to the issues that Hon. Mashakada raised. The issues on what to do on prices which were hiked, it is a matter that is going to be the responsibility of the Ministry of Industry and Commerce. They have started undertaking a survey, to determine two things, is there a shortage of any of the essential commodities in the market. We do not think there is but that should be highlighted.
Secondly, to determine the price increases and the justification for increasing those prices. Only when we have scientific data can we justify taking any measures.
What I want to say Mr. Speaker Sir, this happened in a discussion in Cabinet yesterday, I told Cabinet that I am opposed to the reintroduction of price controls – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – they will worsen and exacerbate the situation. We must handle it in a market-friendly way and I think it can be done. The problems that we know are fiscal deficit and this is not a matter that should be a responsibility of a Minister of Finance and Economic Development alone, it is our collective responsibility, here at Parliament.
However, what assistance, what cooperation do I get, none? It cannot be resolved by the Minister of Finance alone, it has to be a collective responsibility. We have said it out here, we are spending 90% of revenue on wages, we have nothing on operations, PSIP infrastructure, and we have nothing. How do we hope to get out of our current situation? Those are the problems and these also trigger some of the instability in the market. People are receiving those high wages. They expect to be paid in cash but we cannot match those amounts in physical cash. They think that because we have put $300 million as a wage payment in their accounts that should translate to $300 million cash every month. It is not possible. So, until we realise that; which is why we are encouraging the usage of electronic money.
On fuel supplies, there are adequate fuel supplies. There is in stock
200 million litres of fuel in the country – [HON. MEMBERS: Where?]
– Yes, we have. At the moment, every week the consumption is about
30 – 35 million litres. After the panic buying emptied the storage tanks, we have put 40 million additional litres into the market for this week. It is now just a question of logistics to deliver it to the service stations.
There is no shortage and I want to underline that.
I agree with Hon. Mashakada that the parallel market is just a symptom of a problem but he puts it wrongly that the demand for cash is exceeding supply. If all the bank depositors and there are about seven billion bank deposits, if you all went out to look for physical cash, there is no physical cash and there is no economy that operates that way. The international best practice is about 10 – 15% of bank deposits that can be cash in circulation. In our case, it is about a billion which is about 16% of bank deposits. That is sufficient. What we have to address is the issue of low circulation of money due to hoarding and this can also be done in our individual capacities.
Hon. Mashakada is also right that in a dollarised economy, the key issue is the availability of foreign currency. So, for as long as foreign currency is not adequate to meet the basic needs, we should expect some de-stabilisation but I regard that Mr. Speaker Sir as a teething problem which we are going through and which can be resolved. One of the issues that has arisen Mr. Speaker Sir, some of our successes are the causes of our temporary problem.
For instance, we put S1 64 to protect local industries. They have been expanding production but to expand production to meet domestic demand they need foreign currency. So, the foreign currency which we have seen being generated, there is now more demand for foreign currency than there was yesterday. For me, it is a problem which is part of growing and we can handle it as we go along giving priority to those issues which we think must be given priority to.
An issue was raised about what priorities we are – the RBZ put out a circular which sets out the priorities that will be given to foreign currency and these are importation of raw materials, health and education materials, fuel, payment of dividends and repatriation of any capital where companies have been closed. We are giving priority to those because we feel those are essential to run this economy. I agree entirely with the list that he gave as sources of our foreign currency.
On exports, like I said, horticulture, gold, tobacco and platinum exports are up. What we have also done in addition is that we have said any foreign exchange receipt from the export of tobacco, gold, chrome, platinum and diamonds are a preserve of the RBZ. This will ensure of course in the first instance, that those who are generating that foreign currency are taken care of and then we will go to meet the needs of the priority items which are on the priority list.
The issue about investment climate - I agree with you and also on the issue of indigenisation which remains in terms of aligning the clarification by His Excellency to the law, remains unattended and continues to be an embarrassment to us but these are issues that we will address more forcefully now than before. I do not agree that bond notes are a problem. The problem is that there is lack of production. We have to increase production and exports. That is the only source of our solution in this country. As we grow the economy, the economy will need more and more foreign currency to import capital goods and raw materials, and we must have that foreign currency available.
Hon. Mandipaka, are there any intentions to introduce a local currency? Not now, we are not ready because we have not yet dealt with issues of confidence – [HON. MUDZURI: When will that happen?] – To get to that position, we must learn first to address the fiscal deficit. We must aim to address the trade imbalance which I must also say Mr. Speaker Sir, is narrowing. We must also address the issue of the current account deficit attracting more foreign currency or foreign direct investment. We must address the issue of a reserve or import cover for at least six months. Currently, it stands at 0,7% cover which is not enough. So, we have to address these issues in order to move forward.
Hon. Muderedzwa, what can we do to minimise leakages? We are doing everything within our power to minimise leakages and this is coming through revenue collection. We are strengthening the security in ZIMRA, passage of cargo transiting our country. We have introduced a cargo tracking system and CCTV systems at border posts. All these are intended to reduce and minimise revenue leakages but I must give this to ZIMRA. Notwithstanding these challenges, since the beginning of the year, because of the efficiency measures that have been introduced ZIMRA has been achieving above target revenue collections. So, the problem is not on the revenue collection but is on fixing or minimising expenditure. That is where the problem is. It is like they are raising more revenue but where is it going - to wages and more wages – [HON.
ENG. MUDZURI: Because the culprit is Government.] – That is where we need to sort out the problem.
Hon. Khupe, thank you very much and I agree with you. Essentially, you make the point that we are scratching where it is not itching. It is not quite so because we are not scratching anybody – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We are basically dealing with the fundamental issues. She mentioned production; the export incentive scheme is intended to increase production and in fairness to all of us, there is a bumper harvest in agriculture. That is production and because of agriculture being the anchor of the economy and its linkage to other sectors of the economy, we expect that in future this will go a long way in resuscitating, not just the manufacturing industry but the transport sector as well. I think all of you became aware of the transport sector’s involvement in transporting cotton and maize to markets. That is what we should encourage and those figures are very clear that the economy is growing. I agree with her on issues of corruption.
Hon. Mliswa, thank you very much, I agree again with you that what we need is fiscal discipline but it should be a collective effort and not the responsibility of one person. On the issue of the wage bill, let me repeat, we are taking measures to rationalize the Civil Service in order to achieve savings. But we cannot, by nature of its problem – it is not a mechanical exercise. We have to approach it through two strategies. One is to rationalize to achieve efficiencies and the other is basically to grow the cake. If at present for example, our revenue is $100 and $90 is going towards wages, if we increase our revenue to $1000, $90 as a percentage of $1000 will be manageable. That is the approach that personally, I much prefer.
I have already indicated Mr. Speaker Sir, with respect to prioritisation of our foreign currency and I agree with him that empowerment under the indigenisation law should not be empowerment of individuals but of communities. We should have a broad based empowerment and if one looks at the clarification on the indigenisation policy given by His Excellency …
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Minister for the sterling effort in responding to the questions. But just a clarification – in most of the points, he is saying he is in agreement with Hon. Members, which is okay but we are not expecting you to just be in agreement. We are expecting to hear what you are doing about the agreement. That is the difference. We appreciate you are in agreement but beyond an agreement, what are you doing? We want to hear, if you agree with us that corruption is a problem, this is what Government is doing - one, two, three. Then we go back home and say these are the answers from the Minister. As it is, you are just in agreement and we are now a choir. We do not want to be a choir that is just singing together a chorus that is to no end. We need edification and answers. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Vice President of the MDC was late. I gave my Ministerial Statement and outlined the measures. You were away and you want me to repeat – no. –[HON.
MEMBERS: He was here.] – No, he was not here.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon Mliswa asked about TBs. Let me give this information - as at 30th June this year there were 2.5 billion TBs. We have deployed these TB proceeds towards the following critical areas: This House approved the Reserve Bank Debt Assumption of $1.5 billion. I have used $827 million to retire part of that debt and it constitutes 33.1% of the TBs that I have issued. I have capitalized some to the State owned enterprises which I felt were critical for the revival and recovery of the economy. They include COTTCO and many others – [HON. MEMBER: Which ones?] - I do not have the names at hand but
I can give you. I have utilised $263million which constitutes 10.5%. During the year, we had to import grain and spent money on drought related expenditure. It came to $531million constituting 21.2%. When we realised that the financial sector – the commercial banks were in distress because of non-performing loans, we came to their rescue through the incorporation of ZAMCO and we took over the nonperforming loans. These came to $568 million constituting 22.7% of the TBs that are issued. To pay for the deficit between revenue and expenditure on recurrent expenditure, I have used TBs to the extent of $312 million constituting 12.25% of TBs issued. Thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. PARADZA: I just need two clarifications from the Minister with regards to the S.I he said is going to be implemented from today onwards. Does it also cater for those dealers who sell spare parts and are not accepting swipes and RTGs but only accept cash – what are you going to do about that? I am a trucker myself and if I go holding lots of money which you have just outlawed, am I not going to be in trouble because these spare parts dealers require me to pay in cash?
The other issue is with regards to the police. Who is going to police the police because we are going to deal with cash? These policemen are going to deal with dealers who deal with cash. Are you not again now promoting – if we do not have some mechanism to control this - are we not going to create another leeway for the police now to make more money than what they used to make when they were using spikes?
HON. ZIYAMBI: The clarification that I am seeking from the Minister is, when we started experiencing cash shortages, you introduced the bond notes and in fact prior to that there was no hoarding of cash because you would go into the bank, effect your telegraphic transfer and money would go. What then happened is when bond notes were introduced and banks did not have cash whether in Nostro accounts or in their accounts, they then requested individuals and companies to bring their cash to the bank to deposit and then they would do the telegraphic transfer. The genesis of that practice led to selling of cash because if I wanted to buy something outside the country, I would then be forced to go and look for cash to deposit in the bank so that the telegraphic transfer can go through and that was not addressed. So, for as long as we have a practice whereby I am requested to bring my own cash and deposit it in the bank and you unleash a Statutory Instrument on people, we are just going to have a vicious cycle. We are going to have a scenario whereby we will be chasing the people and we will be fighting our own people. This has happened before. What we need is a system that has one structure. If we have several pricing models which have been created by banks by requesting us to come with cash, we are not going to have solutions to this.
The other clarification I wanted from the Minister is, the Minister said there is a Statutory Instrument on Exchange Control that is coming in. I am aware that the Minister came here and said we have demonitised; it is now a multiple currency. When we introduce a Statutory Instrument on Exchange Control in a country where I am allowed to have three currencies in my pocket, then there is somebody unleashed on me. I may be with Hon. Chasi and he is buying my second hand phone and he gives me US dollars and I give him Rand.
Immediately I will be arrested. So, in an environment where you told us that it is a multi-currency regime, how do you go about and arrest somebody holding a US dollar, Bond note, Rand or Pula? I think we are creating a scenario where we are attacking our own people for the things that we are supposed to correct ourselves. Those people who are out there with that money, if we correct the fundamentals, they will not hoard that cash in their homes. So I think this Statutory Instrument Hon.
Minister, you need to have a look at it.
What I wanted to say before I went into my issue is, the Hon. Minister is a very sincere man, very hard working and I think he is amongst the best that there is and we appreciate the effort that he is doing. I appreciate when he speaks about the collective effort that we have to put in but I believe that some of the measures that you are talking about Hon. Minister, we need that collectiveness within the team that is up there to ensure that your efforts are also complemented by the team that is there. All of us will have a buy-in and we move in one direction. I thank you.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would want to thank the Minister and I would want to inform you that you are a lone soldier like Rambo – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - You go there, fight and win a war alone. The most important issue that we wanted to find out was on swipe machines. Out of the 200 businessmen in Shamva, only two were able to acquire point of sale machines. Do we have sufficient point of sale machines? I went to Charter Road and Kaguvi this afternoon. There is not even a single businessman with a swipe machine. Maybe, you could attach a condition that renewal of a business licence is that they should have a point of sale machine. The Chinese and Indians do not have such gadgets because they do not bank their money. Could we have an Act that clearly points out that issue? Banks have stringent conditions as regards the issuing of swipe machines to ordinary businessman. May that be looked into and relaxed.
The banks have been responsible for the black market but we would politely say these are bank workers. We should want to say that should a worker of a bank be arrested for dealings in black market, they should have their licence lost; the bank’s licence should be revoked. This afternoon, I lied to someone that I wanted to do a transaction for a thousand dollars. I asked how much bond notes I should give him. He required $1800 bond notes. When we went to a bank near Samora, which I cannot mention, he came out with US$1000. That shows that there are some issues that need to be tided up with banks. If you managed to have cargo trackers, the RBZ should be able to track its own money because the money was not loose.
We were told that the RBZ last week bought money for three days from the Roadport and we should not deny that. For starters we should accept it and once we accept it we will be able to correct the anomalies.
We can never deny that we are dirty; we should accept it.
I also wanted clarity on the issue of gold buying. We have gold markets in Shamva, Chegutu and Tsholotsho. They are buying gold using the price of the RBZ but they do not have licences and that gold is going into the black market. That is why I likened you to Rambo because the relevant Ministries are maybe concentrating on road blocks when there are such leakages. If small scale miners are bringing 47% to the banks but the money that they are having is 50% and 50% is going through leakages. We should not have dealers that are unlicenced, buying gold in these areas because the money is now going to the black market. Could you take measures to ensure that we look into that?
We now have serious problems with drugs. Countries such as Brazil and Columbia are now bringing drugs into Zimbabwe so that they can mop up our US dollars. Mozambique for instance is bringing in dagga so that they can mop up the US dollars. A lot of children that are on the streets are now drugged. If you go into the schools, the same applies. It is an area where you need to come up with measures Hon.
Minister. I thank you for the opportunity that you have granted me.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. First and foremost, I would want to thank the Minister for the truth that he has laid bare and some of the revelations that he made. My first question is with regards to our children who are attending schools outside the country. Are there laws within the banks that say that if I have my own money that has come from the maize harvest and I want to pay for my child’s school fees today, I am told that I should bring US dollars so that I can pay for my child’s school fees? Earlier on, you promised us that the US dollar and the Bond note are the same. Why do the banks not use my bond notes and transfer them to my child so that my child can go to school without any problems. This is because you told us that they are the same. I sell my tobacco in US dollars, I already have US dollars. Why am I failing to access US dollars? This means the banks are promoting black market. Can you please look into that issue?
There is also the issue of illness. I do not know whether our workers and yourselves are different. If I fall ill and were to go to the bank, I will get money to be treated in South Africa. My worker at a lower level has their own money. They should have a right to go and be treated outside the country just like those that have the money – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – There should be equality in the treatment of people. The law should apply equally to everyone. Furthermore, we have workers that work for us on the farms whose parents are deceased. They do not have national registration documents so that they can have their money either through Ecocash or any other form. What methods do you have for I know that you have such workers because we have the same scenario? What measures have you put in place to ensure that the bank can be sure that I can get a stipulated amount to give to those employees that do not have documents so that we have sufficient tobacco which will lead to Government harvesting a lot of foreign currency? What measures are you putting in place to address that?
The other question is about the cash on the streets, the truth of the matter is that I want to know who owns that cash. There are new notes on the streets. If there is anyone who can print this currency, can this person print more bonds for all of us so that the country can survive? If we were to go out for five minutes, we will show you where this money is Mr. Speaker with your indulgence. I am talking about clean, crispy notes and it is in several bricks. It is not money from banks. That money is coming from the Reserve Bank because it is the Reserve Bank that gives money. I thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: I just want to say this in Shona. I went into
EcoBank with a view to pay for my child’s examination fees and I was told that ten pounds was required. I was told to bring pounds. I told them that the bond notes that I have were equal to the US dollar so that they should accept it but they said they were not accepting it. The bank is situated along Nelson Mandela near the MDC headquarters. I am elated by what you have mentioned as regards the artisanal miners or small scale miners that you are giving them 5% incentive through banks like ZB and others that help you in buying gold. I would want to confirm what Hon. Mapiki has said that if Government can track 30 000 litres of diesel from the border to ensure whether it has gone out of the country or no trough to Zambia, we would also urge you to have a tracking system of your money so that it cannot leave the bank and go on to the black market. We do not want the artisanal miners to continue suffering when they are the ones that go into the belly of the earth. I was quite hurt by the issue of artisanal miners.
Hon. Minister, you said in the 2016/17 Budget that the theme was growing the national cake. We cannot grow the national cake because Government has assumed the COTTCO debt which is US$68. Government took four seasons worth of seed inputs and gave them to cotton farmers and it came to US$42m. This amount is now more than
$100m in total. We have an animal called David Whitehead Textiles; it has not even started operation since the cotton was harvested. If we use $100m and we plough it into cotton and then take the cotton and export it in raw form, what export are we getting when David Whitehead Textiles can no longer be opened. I am coming in day and night mourning that you should open David Whitehead Textiles. Why is it still in the hands of judicial managers who are thieves, the likes of Chimanye, Hofisi and Toendepi who are fooling you and yet you are taking over the debt of COTTCO of US68 million and giving free seed to farmers. This year you are going to give free cotton seed and inputs. You said 400 000 people are going to be given these inputs per hectare which shows that you really want us to open up industries like David Whitehead Textiles, Cargill and Parogate. There is no mention of cotton beneficiation in here.
We want the national cake to be grown so that the wage bill is reduced from 97% to 45%. Hon Minister, the issue of gold that you have mentioned, you are not lying. Hon Mapiki has talked about 47% but the point is that a lot of gold is leaving our country because you are not buying it using the world price. In South Africa, that is where they buy gold using the world gold price. Every month, five tonnes of gold is going to the Rand refinery. We can protect that leakage if we buy gold using the world gold price. Allow people who have money to come and buy this gold at the world price because if you use sub-standard amounts, whether it is for RBZ, ZB, NMB or CBZ, for as long as it is below the world price, there will continuously be leakages of gold out of the country. We are currently talking of 28 tonnes per year but per month 5 tonnes is going out of the country. Fifty tonnes is going out of the country unaccounted for. We have a lot of gold and I do not believe that all of it is coming to RBZ. It is my plea that you look into that area. Lastly, there is an issue of you being called Rambo holding an MAG rifle. There is an animal called triple Ps which is mentioned 17 times in the Zim Asset document. There are some of your colleagues who do not want these triple Ps because there is no individual benefit for them. Triple Ps are made so that Government is not belaboured with putting in funds but that Government will simply benefit from people who have their money. I want to give you an example of Traffic Safety
Council of Zimbabwe. It went into triple P partnership with others. They have an electronic insurance cover note for a third party. Hon. Minister, you are aware that you have more than US$10 million from May last year to this year, which amount you have never received in the past seven years. This is due to the PPPs. I am making reference to this issue because if you put electronic systems...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, you can now round off.
*HON. NDUNA: I am ending by saying if we use the electronic technology, as a country we can make a lot of money so that even people in Chegutu can have a change of complexion because of money raised from that and because we have machinery that ensures that our money is not illegally taken out of this country. When tollgates were being used, $7 000 was harnessed everyday per tollgate. When computerisation came, the amounts are now three times what used to be received. We now raise $21 000 per day.
I would want you to allow other private players in revenue generation and collection. We should have PPPs and electronic means.
There should never be a Minister who would not want people to come in and be consulted first because they say that they are more knowledgeable or that they need to go and grease his palm using these Shona terms. We do not want this at all. Allow me Hon. Minister to say, with those few words, I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I have seen the
interest shown in this matter and that everyone wants to debate. So, I am going to give every Member five minutes to debate. There are those whom I have already recognised. Thank you.
*HON. MUPFUMI: But Hon. Speaker, Parliament is now one
sided. It is only those at the front who are allowed to speak.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order please!
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would
like to thank Hon. Minister Chinamasa for his statement. However, I have got four issues. May the Hon. Minister clarify on why Multi- Choice Zimbabwe is refusing bond notes into their accounts. Clarify on certain goods and services which are being charged in foreign currency, for example vaccines in the pharmacies. The issue of three/four tier pricing system and also clarify on what Government is doing on those trading on reserved sectors in the economy. That is all I want to know.
Thank you.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Hon.
Minister, Initially when you brought the bond notes, we told you that a donkey and a cow are never the same. Today you have admitted that the two are different but you have come up with measures, with a Statutory Instrument that you want to attack or target the ordinary man and woman in the streets, the povo. You did not start from where you had left. You said that you were going to be successful. In your statement you appear to be saying that the bond note succeeded. We are told that there is $3 million of coins and I saw people being given packages of coins. I am also told that I could be given coins worth $100.00 which will be a thousand ten cent pieces.
This is the reality and this is what is on the ground. We go into the streets, Hon. Members and the ordinary men and women in the streets are not getting anything. We are getting the sacks full of coins. How long will it take you to read that? What was the rationale of bringing $3 million in coins? It is tedious to count it. You said you are giving artisanal miners so that they could assist with the exports. Do you not know that all the people who are unemployed are looking at money for their raw materials to medium scale workers? They are also looking for equipment to run. How can they be given the US$ when they are being asked to look for the US$ on the streets?
Have you gone into the shops to see how the three tier pricing system is doing? You said you would leave it to the trading industry. You are the same Government and when you come to us you should agree in Cabinet that this is the SI that works. You should not come here and hoodwink us and say the Minister of Industry and Commerce will go and investigate the issue of the prices. You are lying to us and we are accused when we go back to our constituencies that we are making false representations. May you withdraw your statement and come up with more appropriate words.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, the Minister does not lie.
Find suitable words please.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: All I am saying Hon. Minister, is that we require the truth. We all blame the banks Hon. Speaker but we want to find out if it is possible that tomorrow we go to any bank with you and ask what the law says; that when you have paid me my salary, little as it is and it is now in my account, I would want to have my Parliament motor vehicle repaired. There is an exchange rate at Croco Motors and you are the one who gave them the exchange rate system. I got a quotation from Croco Motors two weeks ago and you are the ones who gave them. It was $1 300 for the repair of breaks.
They had said I could swipe but they used the exchange rate in the street. When I went back in two weeks, I was told that the price had gone up to $1 700. Where will I get that money? The people that you are chasing away into the streets and you want people arrested, you Minister and your team should be the first people to get arrested; you are arresting the wrong people. Hon. Minister, we want you to be arrested for the offence that you are misleading us that the dollar and the bond are the same.
The other day, I addressed Vice President Mnangagwa that I was looking for cash. If you are given US$20 you will be so happy as if you will have been given something. The common man and woman in the street cannot access the money. Plug the gap where these new notes are coming from. What is it that you call excess money in someone’s pocket? The money that I have worked for is my property, I can use it either as cash or otherwise as long as I use it in the legal means of the country. The banks that you urge us to deposit our money, we are unable to receive a single cent the next morning after we would have deposited today. Swiping is good but if I want to give my mother hard cash so that she can go and have money for milling, she cannot go and swipe. I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Mr. Speaker Sir. I have five issues that I want to ask the Minister to clarify. Firstly, I want to thank him for the issue around the price controls, that you actually took that position. Given the fact that you are not agreeable to price controls which we had before, why do you think that in terms of arrests, you are also going to control the market forces? The exchange that is happening is really about what is happening in the market and not anything else. What you are doing is driving those things underground and in any country or jurisdiction, if you arrest something that is in demand, you do not stop it. All you do is push it underground and it will continue to happen. Perhaps you have a better understanding of how that is going to happen.
The second one is, can the Minister actually tell us what the rate of exchange in the market is, not what you are telling us here. What is the actual rate of exchange between a bond and a US$1? I am sure you know what that rate of exchange is because again, if we are saying let us deal with the market, let us deal with the realities in the market and I think you need to be open with us.
Thirdly Hon. Minister, you said we are letting you down as
Parliament particularly around issues of the wage bill. You are the biggest employers as Government; please be clear and tell us what is your problem in coming out and saying, the wage bill is going to be reduced by 50%. What are your problems so that we can help you because you seem to be saying we are not coming to the party? So, tell us exactly what you want us to do – [AN HON. MEMBER: Parliament yakatowandisa.] – Yes, we approved that issue in the House.
The fourth issue Hon. Minister, can you explain to us what happened between Saturday and yesterday. We did not have fuel, there was no fuel and then it appeared, what happened because we do not want to be doing that kind of speculation? The issue around the coins, you said the person was arrested; why are you arresting him? For telling us lies that there were coins which were printed or for putting the issue on social media? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Lastly, Hon. Minister, what is the problem in giving us a rand as a currency. We have been raising the issue around us just going into a regional currency. What are your problems so that as we begin to work with you and support you as you are saying, we are able to come to the party so to say? I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Thank you Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga. Hon. Members who are going to seek clarification, do it as she has done.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I only have two issues, the others have been dealt with by my colleagues. In your presentation Hon. Minister, tell us the measures that you are putting in place to ensure that those people who are failing to access their cash and are spending about three months before withdrawing their salaries, how are you going to alleviate the problem? Lastly, people in this country Hon. Minister now want action and not promises of what the
Government is going to do. If you are going to arrest them, we want to see them being arrested. I thank you.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question to the Hon. Minister…
HON. MUSANHI: On a point of order. My point of order is that we are the majority here, why is it that we are getting only contributions from that side – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. If you were able to count 1 to
10, you would not have stood up.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Mr. Speaker Sir, my question to the Hon.
Minister is that we are talking of ghost workers in Government. As Zimbabwean Government, we hired KPMG from India to do a full audit on civil servants and we were told that there were ghost workers. I do not understand him then coming back to us and telling us that we have a problem when the Indian auditors did confirm the ghost workers. So, all what we are asking them to do is, they must stop wasting the tax payers’ money and implement.
Then there is the issue of being given bond coins. This (showing off a five dollar bond note) bond note says, I quote, ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand.’ Zimbabwean people are demanding their monies in the banks, pay them as per promise.
Lastly Mr. Speaker Sir, who is supplying the money changers with money? If you go to them now Mr. Speaker, they have brand new notes, still sealed, meaning to say it is coming from RBZ. Who is fooling who here? I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Because of repetition of most on the issues, I am not going to ask the Minister to respond now but will ask for more clarification before the Minister responds.
*HON. MUPFUMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development for a job well done, but the country has been hurt by money issues. There is need for corrective measures to come up with a statutory instrument to arrest the people. The issue of corruption and misuse of money stems from his Ministry permeating downwards. Banks are allocated US1 million, and they do not supervise to see that US$100 that will have been given per person because it gets from the RBZ to the bank and straight on to the streets. That is why we see that there is money on the black market. The problem started from the onset. We cannot have multi-currency and then say you are going to regulate that or control it. We should have different currencies in different accounts. We are banking currencies from our bus transport in the same account. If you want to go out of the country, you are told that you should bank US$. Then I ask where will I get the US$ from when every day I have been banking in multi-currency.
We are here with these problems because of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the related ministries. They should come up with measures to ensure that we have separate accounts so that I can deposit in a bond or US$ account respectively if I want. I thank you.
HON. MUSANHI: Hon. Minister Chinamasa, mining is similar whether you are mining gold, chrome, nickel and so on. What surprises me is that the retention on forex earned on all these minerals, they have got a certain percentage that is given to them but the largest earner in terms of mining which is gold does not have a specific percentage that is retained for them. I want to ask the Hon. Minister why it is like that when everybody else is actually mining. Where a platinum miner needs a diamond drill and is not getting it locally, and where a gold miner also wants a drill and is not getting it locally, he has to import it from somewhere. So, my question is that I want to understand why is it that there is no specific figure for gold miners as their retention.
HON. GONESE: I also want to join colleagues who have thanked the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development for having come back to us as Parliament with a Ministerial Statement attempting to clarify some of the issues which are of great concern to the majority of the people of Zimbabwe. Mr. Speaker, I would like the Hon. Minister to clarify a few issues which are still of concern.
The first one has already been raised by members who spoke before me but I did not get the clarification from the Minister and this relates to the question of the youth officers. It was my understanding that as part of the rationalization, these youth officers had been laid off but at a rally, the Head of State His Excellency then reversed what had been done by the Ministry of Public Service to lay off these workers. I would like the Hon. Minister of Finance to state what is in fact the correct position whether it is his Ministry’s position that this rationalisation and reduction in the wage bill is something which they are going to pursue. It looks like there is a contradiction within Government itself whereby the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing and vice versa.
We want to have some policy consistency in that regard.
The second issue where I want the clarification of the Hon. Minister, Mr. Speaker relates to the establishment of an independent board to monitor the issuance or the release of bond notes. Mr. Speaker and Hon. Minister, I think what is critical and a clarification which I want in respect of the independent board is that when you made your presentation, you gave an indication that there was going to be such an independent board which was going to monitor the issue of bond notes. I would like the Minister to be cognisant of the fact that one of the critical issues which are necessary is the question of trust.
Mr. Speaker and Hon. Minister, a lot of the people in this country do not have trust in this Government, including members of ZANU PF in respect of some of the measures that they will be talking about. When the Hon. Ministers come out saying we are going to address this problem within 48 hours, most people in this country do not believe them. This is the reason why you will find that even senior officials of the party and those in Government, will continue trading on the black market. You find that all those people who are changing bond notes to the US$ are not necessarily the saboteurs because it is almost everyone. No one has got faith that if you keep your money in the bank it is going to retain its value. So, when it comes to the question of trust, does the Minister not think it was important to keep to his word? What is important is to have transparency.
As I speak Mr. Speaker, no one really knows or has got the details about the so called facility from Afrexim Bank. As a result, if the Minister had kept his word and if such a board had been established people would have had some faith in what the Minister or the Reserve Bank Governor was going to say.
The other clarification which I want Mr. Speaker is whether in a multi-currency regime we still have got foreign currency? You will hear the RBZ Governor talking about foreign currency and this afternoon the Hon. Minister in this august House was making reference to foreign currency. I now begin to wonder, if we are in a multi-currency regime whereby we are saying US$, the Rand, Euro, Pound and so on are part of the basket of currencies that we are using as a country, where does this word foreign currency come from and as opposed to what? This is where there is a lot of confusion.
It looks there is lack of appreciation from the Government itself as to where exactly we stand because now the Hon. Minister in response to
Hon. Mandipaka’s question said that we are not going to introduce the Zimbabwean dollar. Some of us were clear at the time of the introduction of the bond notes that this was the introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar through the back door. This is what it appears to be because we are now talking of allocation of foreign currency by the
RBZ. Where does that come from if we do not have our own currency?
The other clarification which I want Mr. Speaker relates to the issue of bond notes, the fiction that they are one to one with the US$. I want the Minister to clarify for us whether he himself believes that because if he does, I will then ask him when he comes back from one of his foreign trips if he has got some change. He can come with some US$ and I will bring the bond notes and then we can exchange at one is to one. If he has got US$100, I would be very happy if he can exchange that with the $100 bond notes which I will have so he shows that he has got faith that they are at par. They are one is to one and other
Government Ministers if they can also do the same. That is, if they have access to any US$, they can exchange for bond notes for those of us, the back benchers who do not have that access to foreign trips because when Hon. Members of Parliament were going out on Parliamentary business, the Reserve Bank used to give them US dollars. Later on they said they were now doing a transfer because the RBZ itself was not able to give the Hon. Members US dollars. Further to that, in the past it was better because some banks were accepting transfers of money direct from the main account to a visa account. But now, almost all banks are no longer accepting that. They are actually asking you to bring hard cash in the form of US dollars before your visa card can be credited for you to use it outside the country. Members of Parliament are having that predicament. I remember one MP phoning and asking what he was supposed to do when going out on Parliament business. I think these are issues which we want the Hon. Minister to clarify.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Mr. Speaker, for the
opportunity that you have granted me to also seek clarity from the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. First and foremost, Minister you are doing very well. You are doing your best but I want to tell you that all along, things were moving and we were applauding you when you were saying you are now able to pay IMF because the small scale miners were producing gold together with the large scale miners.
The problem at the moment is that two weeks ago things went bad.
Where did it start from, why did we find ourselves in that predicament? Why was there that sudden turn of events? It means that there was a discord. I would want to tell you that we are your eyes, we see, listen and observe what is happening on the ground as people will be mourning saying that these things that have been done are not good. We also observe that you and your team are a big team but I want to highlight where your things went wrong Hon. Minister.
You tampered with the gold which is the mainstay of the country. Bad systems were introduced two weeks ago. You had put in place good measures that when gold was deposited at Fidelity, the miners would choose to be paid in bond notes and receive 3% incentive after being paid in US dollars or bond notes. It was the same and we were happy about it. You then said if you take your money to the bank, you would be given 4% and the bank would take 1% and people were still selling their currency on the streets. We did not have problems.
It was when there was the introduction of a new regulation that once you had sold your gold, which is controlling the economy and is the mainstay of the country that we started getting 60% in US dollars without the 5% incentive. That is where you got it wrong. You killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs. The people that had believed you when you said they would receive 50% bond and 50% US dollars were destroyed. You said 40% was to be received in bond and 5% would be the incentive. Those people that advised you misled you because that is when people then revolted and took advantage, the thieves, uncouth and unscrupulous people.
Remember you have enemies that are out to get you so that you do not go far. They started devaluating the bond note. The 60% and 40%, the black market that we are in competition with over the collection of gold from small scale miners, the black market which led to the depositing of 1.5 tonnes a month unleashed US dollars and gave them 40% but told their buyers not to use the US dollars to buy gold from the artisanal miners but should buy using the bond.
I believe there is someone who is distracting the Minister because he is not listening to what I am saying.
Minister, it is unfortunate that the black market gave its buyers money to buy gold from the small scale miners. After they had given that money, they said they would buy the money on the streets and get all the bond then raise the price of Fidelity Refineries. Gold was purchased. Fidelity had raised the amount to $44 and the black market went to $55 per gram. So when looking at it Hon. Minister, this is where everything went wrong. Even the person selling currency on the black market raised their price so our buyers were now unable to buy the gold. Production has gone down since Monday. You went into this increase of gold prices without the corresponding bond notes available. As a result we are unable to buy sufficient quantities of gold. You did these things when you were not prepared.
Why are there allegations that the RBZ Governor poured money onto the streets when he did not do that? People sent in a lot of gold but they were not paid on that day. They were only paid on a Sunday. Fidelity opened on a Sunday and we were paid. I actually came and collected my money on that day. We were given 40% bond and 60% US dollars. We had delivered a lot of gold so we were given a lot of money and it was in crisp notes. So, we went and bought gold so that we could dispose of it again. This is a system which is not right – it is a drunken system to say the least.
Hon. Minister, I am sorry for you but I am going to plead with you that if it is possible, go and sit down and think. If people are being advised – you have educated economists and we went to workshops and they gave us ideas. They also give you ideas and they are the same people that mislead you. Why do you not listen to people that are not even educated? Sit down with them because they are in the production lines so that they can come up with ideas that work. When I give you ideas you look down upon me as a grade 2 person but you do not look at the value of my ideas and they get lost. That is how the currency was devalued because gold was tampered with. Gold is the mainstay of the Zimbabwean economy, Zambia has copper and South Africa has platinum. Once you tamper with such things, you will die and the economy will not grow. I am sorry; I am now code switching to English because I am now going to school.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Matambanadzo,
I have given you five minutes but I allowed you two minutes extra. So, wind up now.
HON. MATAMBANADZO: With those words Hon. Speaker, I
thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I do not
want to waste a lot of time but just to also appreciate the contribution from Hon. Matambanadzo. Clearly, his submissions are very honest and I want to thank Hon. Matambanadzo. *I would want to thank Hon. Matambanadzo for giving a chronology of what the money market is doing. That has helped the Minister in clarifying that bricks came from the Reserve Bank. They used it on the market, they exchanged it and it came back as acceptable currency in the form of US dollars. This is what is happening on the market. I would want to thank Hon.
Matambanadzo. If we could have honest men and women like Hon.
Matambanadzo who say the truth and who are Hon. Members of Parliament. He is a gentleman and honourable man. I want to thank him for that. Hon. Minister, I hope you have also understood.
I have four questions that need clarification. Firstly, is the state of affairs in our banks. A bank should be a source of security, convenience and confidence. Even title deeds can be secured in a bank because it is a place of confidence. At the moment, a bank is a place of inconvenience. It is a place of volatility and disgrace because people are spending the whole day and night queuing and at the end of the day the money loses its value. What are you doing Hon. Minister? This is a key issue to restore the banking culture, investment culture and a savings culture. How are we going to have people going to the banks with the confidence that they will get their money? With the long queues, nobody will go to the bank. How are we going to restore our banking culture and investment culture in Zimbabwe? May the Hon. Minister explain to us why we can no longer have monies that we deposited coming back to us? How are you going to do this in terms of restoring confidence in the bank? We would want to say yes, the Minister has spoken to our problems.
Hon. Speaker, the second issue is the surrogate currency that we have, the fake currency we have or the puppet currency called a bond note. I once spoke about it when we were in Bulawayo and you said you were going to scrap it. What are we going to do about it?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, the Interpreters are getting
difficulty because you are using two languages. So, stick to one language, whichever one you would want to use.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you. Let me stick to Shona. We have the fake currency that we are using. These are bond notes that we agreed to. Why do you not remove the bond note so that it is no longer in use? We would want to have a currency that is acceptable to everyone. Remove the bond note. Are you looking into that so that we use the multi-currency basket? If we come up with our own currency, our production will then restore the Zimbabwean currency after we would have addressed the fundamentals. In the interim, we need to use the multi-currency basket so that there is confidence in banking.
The third clarity that I seek is that if you look at the Senior Government officials and even businessmen in this country, they buy properties outside the country. Senior Government officials in this country bank their currencies in Mauritius, et cetera. A lot of Senior Government officials in this country, a lot of their children are attending universities outside the country. The majority of Ministers’ children are not at the University of Zimbabwe. Former Ministers like Hon. Goche, of course, their children are here but most of the current Ministers, their children are out of the country.
If you look closely at things that will be happening, even holidays they go out of the country. My question to Hon. Minister Chinamasa is, can you not have integrity and lifestyle audit for Senior Government officials in terms of ethics? You urge people to bank their money and that they should suffer when your own money is outside the country. Can you not have this integrity and lifestyle audit? That is important in building the banking sector confidence or confidence in the country.
Lastly, I have another important point. I do not know whether the
Hon. Minister is listening. Hon. Speaker, can you protect me so that the Minister can listen very well. I saw that Hon. Minister Gumbo was distracting the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
The Reserve Bank should be the Reserve Bank with reserves. The
Reserve Bank currently has no reserves. What is being done by the
Minister as regards to ensuring that the Reserve Bank becomes a proper Reserve Bank and not an empty maize stalk in the communal home. It should really be a Reserve Bank because a Reserve Bank should have reserves. No one can live in this life and be hopeful that they will get something from the Reserve Bank. The Reserve Bank should be a repository where if you have difficulties we can be able to draw finances from. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to ask the Hon. Minister to assure me and to give me confidence. We understand that the shortage of fuel, cooking oil and other commodities that we had started to see were stemmed by the intervention of the Government, especially with the Reserve Bank by $25 million that was drawn from Nostro reserves. My question to him is, can the Hon. Minister indicate whether this was budgeted for? If it is correct, for just one week, it was $25 million; do we have this kind of money that can allow us that if we have a crisis like this, we go and draw from those reserves? Is that the situation? If that is the case, can we sustain it?
Secondly, Hon. Minister, can you please tell us what you will do in order to try and make us, people like me and …
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I do not understand what
you are saying.
HON. MAJOME: Yes, I am asking. Maybe to put it in a different way, where did you get the money to ensure that those reserves of fuel that you were mentioning, where have you drawn that money from? My worry is that have you not drawn it from the Nostro account reserves. If you have, can we sustain this kind of thing if there is some more panic buying, if that is the case?
Secondly, what can you do to try and bring a measure of confidence in a person like myself and the people that I represent in terms of your sincerity and Government for policy consistency to show us that you do indeed want to support the productive sector and limit the consumptive sector and especially to bring foreign currency? I ask because what are you going to do about the following things; you said that you are not going to bring price controls. How can you explain the very passionate enactment of the Competitiveness Commission that
Members of Parliament from that side of the House rushed and enacted? Why did you put in place a Competitiveness Commission one of whose functions is to control prices if you say that you are not going to do that? Thirdly, the issue of bulk Treasury bills proceeds to consumption such as servicing loans that were incurred and condemned by the public in the Reserve Bank Debt Assumption Bill as well as also, how do you explain if you want foreign currency and productivity? What are you going to do for example in issues that are inconsistent such as the blocking of Kwese TV, a Zimbabwean investor who is able to invest in Kenya and bring in multi US million dollars in Kenya but is not allowed to come here. Should we not be able to have that kind of money here? Even on the diaspora vote, it is not a secret that the bulk of our foreign currency inflows come from the diaspora. If you are really serious and I have asked you this before and I will ask again; if you are really serious about wanting to bring in foreign currency, why are you ignoring the issue of the diaspora vote? The usual issue is that no taxation without representation. We are in a crisis and our political egos are bigger than the economic suffering of Zimbabwe, why do you not just let Zimbabweans in the diaspora vote and you will see the money that will flow in when people invest with confidence.
The issue around inconsistency again, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, Dr Mangudya told us that if the bond, pseudo currency/surrogate currency fails to work to resolve the foreign currency crisis, he would resign? What level of failure would it be required to then make him resign. Is this the fact you have to issue a Ministerial Statement and the bricks that are being talked about, is that not failure? We still do not have cash. What is it that must first happen?
This Statutory Instrument that you have promulgated to arrest barons, what new thing is it going to do? Have we not already had criminalisation of illicit foreign currency deals through the regulations in terms of the Exchange Control Act? What is the difference? Is the problem not enforcement? In terms of the illicit flows of currency, I
hope you can say something about trimming the expenditure of Government in delegations that go out of the country. Like for example, we are told that there was a 70 big delegation to the United Nations General Assembly and there are other delegations, clearly that would also go with foreign currency. In my constituency people are not happy with that. They assume that when people go they get foreign currency from the Reserve Bank, and people do not have money out there. Surely, it might not be true but you must answer because it is a confidence building measure.
Finally, what are you going to do in terms of just removing the premium on the bond note? What are you going to do to address the problem where if I decide to buy some goods using mobile transfer of whatever kind, the person that I am paying will want me to pay a premium? I am asking him to tell me what it is that he is going to do. That person will ask me to pay a premium as opposed to when I pay cash. Are you going to do anything about that so that it controls that? I thank you.
HON. CHINAMASA: I feel elated by the level of interest shown by Hon. Members on this subject matter. When I look at our economic evolution, it is an eye opener. We have spent the whole afternoon talking about gold because now we are participants in the production. That was not the case about 17 years ago at the beginning of the Land Reform Programme. We spent the whole afternoon talking about agriculture because now we are participants. I want to emphasise that, that process or transition from non participation to participation cannot take place overnight. It is a process. As we transit through that journey, there will be teething problems. Some of what we are discussing right now are growing problems, problems that are affect any child who is growing. If we accept that, we can then remain on course. That, I think I should emphasise.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order. The Minister has made a very important sweeping statement about the economy moving from non participation to participation. It is a very important observation. I also realise that there is a political divide to it, that our
Members who are in ZANU PF are more on the participants with those in the opposition trying to enter the participation. So, thank you very much for that.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: There is no point of order there.
HON. CHINAMASA: I think we will need another afternoon to
talk about participation because the whole journey of our participation as black people started with the Land Reform Progamme. The positions which were taken by the respective parties have basically decided who participates in the Land Reform and who does not. Those are issues we can leave for another day.
What is important is that now we can talk about concrete issues like gold. Even Hon. Matambanadzo speaks emotionally, he is handling gold everyday which was not the case 17 years ago. We need to recognise that achievement, nurture it and develop it. We hope that one day Hon. Matambanadzo will not be an artisanal miner but will own a proper mine with a shaft. That is our expectation. So, our policies must be geared to nurturing those who are already producing with a view to bringing them into formal economy so that they can make their contribution in terms of tax payment and services.
I had not finished responding to Hon. Mliswa. I was cut short but I only realise that I did not address all his questions. He made reference to, what are we doing on domestic resource mobilisation. The fact of the matter is that Zimbabwe is currently cut off from the international capital markets. We are not in the same situation as Mozambique, Zambia and Malawi. We are not able to raise any new money as was mentioned by Hon. Khupe from the international market. There is no alternative. It is an imperative for us to generate from our own resources. That is what has made us survive up to now. All the infrastructure that we did, the completion of Tokwe-Mukorsi was through domestic resource mobilisation.
Currently, we are undertaking - we have resumed work at
Gwayi/Shangani, Marovanyati in Buhera and at Cogswell in
Mashonaland East. All those are being funded from domestic resources. We are achieving partnership between the private sector, insurance companies and pension funds in order to direct investments towards infrastructure which we consider is necessary for our development.
About a month ago, I went to commission a 1.6 megawatt hydroelectric put by the private sector Old Mutual. This is because we had given fiscal incentives for them to undertake that investment. We are encouraging other independent fund managers to put their money into especially infrastructure like hydro, clean energy, solar energy so that we can put a firm foundation for our economic development. All the issue about command agriculture; this is private sector money but we come to assist so that at least that money is deployed in the area which we think is of top priority.
He made a point which I want to disagree with him. He said you can only spend what you have. This was the slogan of my predecessor. I do not share it and I have not operated on that basis. As I mentioned, I borrow in order to address fundamental issues to do with infrastructure. If I were to wait until I spend what I earn, there is nothing. As I have pointed out, 90% of the revenue is going to wages. So, there will be nothing to spend on anything else, be it command agriculture or infrastructure. That is what the House should understand. What is important is that when you borrow money, for what purpose are you applying that money? In my view, we have tried to balance between consumption and infrastructure and also supporting the productive sector.
Hon. Paradza asked the question about who is going to police the police. I think these are issues that collectively we should address the issues of corruption. I am sure that when collectively all of us also refuse to be complicit in this practice, this practice will come to an end. The issue that he raised about lack of foreign currency to purchase spare parts - that is precisely what I said. The issue which is central to the revival of our economy is to enhance production, to enhance export productive capacity so that we can earn more foreign currency.
I am sorry that Hon. Ziyambi commended on the regulations before he read them. I would have expected that as a lawyer, you would have first read them. We are not penalising possession. We are penalising dealings in currency. So, if you are walking and you have money in your pocket, it is not criminal, but if you use that money and take it out of your pocket on the street and you start trading it, that is when you get arrested. So, we need to emphasise that. Mr. Speaker Sir, let me take this opportunity to just table a copy of the gazetted regulations.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I just need clarification on that. How are you then criminalising somebody when you have a basket of currencies? If I exchange my dollar for a rand with Hon. Gonese, is that criminalising the instrument?
HON. CHINAMASA: Yes, that is dealing in currency.
HON. ZIYAMBI: But we have a basket of currencies in
Zimbabwe. So, if...
HON. CHINAMASA: No, no. You can only do it with a licence and the regulations make it clear. If you have no licence, the problem with this economy is lack of discipline. You can go to a bank; they have got licence to do exactly what you are doing, not by yourself on the street. Let us have discipline. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE ACTING SPEAKER : Order please!
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank Hon. Mapiki for his questions. I understand that there is a shortage of point of sale machines. Ideally, I think we should have point of sale machines to the level of 100 000. We have moved from 16 000 and we are now at 47 000. We are trying to secure more foreign currency to import these machines and we will not stop. This is why we cannot strictly penalise a trader who is not using point of sale machines until such time that we have adequate supply of point of sale machines. I also recognise Mr. Speaker Sir that those businesses which are unable to secure point of sale machines are losing valuable business opportunities because of the shortage of cash. So, it is a vicious circle so to speak.
He also mentioned something about hard currency and so on. I think that I would leave that to the Ministry of Home Affairs if they have got any questions. Hon. Mahoka, your issue again is coming to the shortage of foreign currency whether to pay for fees or medical care and so on. This is why I am saying at the centre of our recovery, there should be export capacity production so as to increase foreign currency. Because of increased demand, it becomes a long journey before we can achieve adequacy but we cannot allow foreign currency to buy every junk. We have to prioritise what it can purchase and this is what the Reserve Bank has done.
Hon. Mahoka also mentioned farm workers. The trick is to make sure that you get those farm workers obtain IDs. This is something over which you should engage the Registrar General’s office. I do so in my constituency. I do help because once they have got IDs, they can open accounts. I was impressed Mr. Speaker Sir in my constituency. Most of the banks like POSB, CABS and CBZ now have agents. They use some of the shops as agents to open bank accounts on no money and it is being done.
So, it is important and all you need is to make sure that they have got IDs and once they have, they can open bank accounts and they do not have to come to Harare and this is happening. You asked the question as to whose money is in the streets. I also ask you and this is the problem. I have mentioned here – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Let us lower
our voices please.
HON. CHINAMASA: I have mentioned Mr. Speaker Sir that investigations will have to be undertaken. We can only surmise. People go to withdraw money purportedly for lawful purposes and may end up on the streets. We pay like I mentioned to you. After the demand from this Hon. House we were made to pay cash to cotton farmers and tobacco farmers as part of the proceeds from the sale of their products. We do not know whether any of those was abused. I have mentioned that weekly we pay in cash to artisanal miners $5 million.
Again I would not know. Also I would not know how much is on the streets when all is said and done. Is it one million or is it hundred thousand or fifty thousand and so on. But, how have you counted it. Let us not make speculative statements when we do not have the exact information. We come here and we say there is two million or three million, how have you counted it. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection]- Count first before you come and make a speculative statement.
Hon. Nduna, the issue of tracking payments, it is easier said than done. At the end of the day the Reserve Bank will make payments to commercial banks. May be at that point if it is new bond notes, maybe they will know the serial number. After that, once it is parceled out, how do you trace it? You cannot have an exercise where each note which leaves the bank is being recorded to say it has gone to Hon. Matuke or Hon. Mahoka, that is not business.
Hon. Nduna raised the issue about David Whitehead. David Whitehead is not a Government company. Why is Hon. Nduna not raising or finding private investors to resuscitate David Whitehead.
Why do we always have this mindset that everything must be done by Government? We come here and make statements to say growth must be private-sector led – [HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker.
] – so, it is very important Mr. Speaker Sir, that we as Government – [HON. NDUNA: Sorry Mr. Speaker, I need clarity on that point so that…] – [AN HON. MEMBER: Tanga waita point of order.] –
HON. NDUNA: Point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. NDUNA: Sorry Mr. Speaker. So that I get the response that meets the clarification that I sought, I said; Government has put in US$68 million to COTTCO to bail it out. It has given US$40 million to cotton farmers. David Whitehead, private as it might be, Government or quasi-Government as it might be; would it not be prudent for
Government to bail out the present status that David Whitehead is in, in order that it can find suitors and investors. In the present state it cannot find suitors. So, my question is, is it not prudent for Government, after splashing US$100 million, for it to help capacitate this private entity called David Whitehead, which is under judicial management so that it does not export the raw materials for which it has toiled using the US$100 million that it has put out already, unless of course it wants to export raw materials, irrespective.
HON. CHINAMASA: I thank the Hon. Member for that
clarification, but let me explain Mr. Speaker Sir that; at the time we made intervention into the cotton sector, the industry had collapsed. We took a decision in the mid 90s to privatise some of our parastatals and that included COTTCO and those who bought collapsed the country. From a previous production level of around 400 000 metric tones, it came to 10 000. So, the intervention was intended to revive the cotton industry, which employs in excess of 400 000 households and has posed as linkages to David Whitehead Textiles. When we bring up the cotton production to the level that I want, we can then start looking into what incentives we can give to encourage investors into the textile industry to do spinning, weaving and textiles. However, you cannot do intervention in that sector until you are satisfied that you have got the product.
Essentially, that is the thrust of Government.
As you are all aware Mr. Speaker Sir, this coming season, we are supporting in excess of 400 000 households who are occupied in the cotton production industry. This is with a view eventually, to trigger manufacturing and the textile sector. On the David Whitehead more specifically, what helped in COTTCO intervention was that, we had an entity of Government which still had shares there. However, the COTTCO debt was an external debt which was affecting our negotiations with foreign financial institutions, so we needed to put its house in order so as not to spoil our relationship with outside financial institution. That helped. I would be quite happy to entertain any suggestions and proposals coming forward to revive David Whitehead.
He mentioned about the Private Partnership (PP) and that we are not doing anything about it. The Beitbridge/Harare/Chirundu, especially the Beitbridge/Harare, it is a PP, it is a Build Operate and Transfer (BOT), we are not putting our money in there. The investor is putting his money and we are allowing the investor to recoup his investment over a period of 25 years. This model, we are quite happy to roll it out
in any sector of the economy involving infrastructure. We only need the investors to come forward and we discuss. Under My Ministry, we have set up a joint venture unit in terms of the Joint Venture Act and this is to allow joint ventures between the public and the private sector and we are very open to any suggestions for investments in that direction.
Hon. Mukwangwariwa asked about the three tier system, I think I have explained in my statement that this is a matter that the regulations are seeking to address. Over and above that, the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, we are in agreement; we will do a scientific study, a survey to find out what is happening in the market. Only after they do that report will we know what measures to take to address the situation. On another forum, I think I had made reference to the fact that we should enforce the legislation relating to participation in the reserved sectors.
My own view Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no justification that people can come from other continents to do gold panning. Gold panning should be the preserve of the people of Zimbabwe and not foreigners. I can understand when they bring huge investments to sink shafts to get to the gold which is a kilometer down, that we accept not, to come with a dish from outside the continent and get alluvial gold, no. We should preserve gold panning for our own people.
Hon. Mudzuri, I do not agree that bond notes have failed…
HON. NDUNA: Hon. Speaker, sorry, I think he is going further and further and has missed my points of clarification. My point that I sought clarification on was why RBZ is buying gold at less than the world price? Why is it not buying at the world price because this might be a cause for illicit outflows and it might be your Achilles heel in terms of revenue leakages in the gold sector? Is RBZ only acting as a middleman in terms of gold buying and selling?
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I will need to check. My information is that we are paying for gold deliveries at competitive world price, but I need to check. My information is that we are paying well. There is no excuse except indiscipline for our artisanal miners or anybody to smuggle gold out of the country. We are paying well. We reduced royalty fees from almost 5% to 1%, just a token and we still find people complaining.
It is just lack of discipline Mr. Speaker Sir. What I think is important Mr. Speaker Sir, as we take over and we increase participation in this economy, it comes with responsibility. The responsibility is to pay taxes so that we can offer service to our people. Now, if everybody is participating in the economy and they do not want to pay taxes but they still want services, they want teachers, doctors and nurses to be paid and they want their salaries; that will lead us to doom. So I think it is very important that we have discipline amongst ourselves.
Hon. Mudzuri, the point I was making basically is that foreign currency is used and prioritised to import capital goods, raw materials, fuel, medicines and so on, and that I think is the direction we should go. To have foreign currency used for any little thing, any rubbish, I think is not acceptable.
He made reference to the bond coins. As you know, I do not have the day to day details of what the RBZ does. I am not monetary authority. I am fiscal authority and there is no way I would know on a daily basis what is happening but the information I have is that they imported bond coins and someone must carry the bond coins. So, the driver who was carrying the bond coins and had the invoice photographed the invoice and put it on the social media. What for? We do not know.
Again, an act of indiscipline because the Official Secrets Act provides that information is confidential because it can lead to security problems. Imagine they were coming from Beitbridge and he puts it on social media. Everybody knows they are coming all the way to Harare.
They can be waylaid. So, it is a very serious infringement of the Official Secrets Act and I think that rightly so, he was reported to the police and has been arrested.
I want to emphasise again in response to Hon. Mudzuri, that position of cash is not illegal. It is when you start sitting at a street corner and now say you are looking for the Rand, US$ and so on. You are undertaking transactions in currency that is when you get arrested.
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, thank you very much. You make the point that by doing what we are doing we may end up driving what is happening underground. We have all expressed and are all agreed that what is happening on the streets is unacceptable. We also understand that we cannot resolve it by legislation alone. So, we have again to make sure that there is adequate foreign currency that will generate adequate foreign currency so that whoever has a legitimate demand on foreign currency can find it, especially for importation of raw materials, capital goods and so on. If we get to that level, all these practices will mostly dwindle and maybe disappear. So, the strategy is, let us grow the economy, produce, and export and we are quite ready Mr. Speaker to unfold any policies or incentives that will help people to produce or want to work harder in order to produce.
Again, Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, I agree with you that we have to reduce the wage bill but it is not an easy walk in the park. If I came to Parliament and said, for instance what we agreed in the new
Constitution is not sustainable, let me be very frank with you; it is not sustainable. The size of this Parliament is not sustainable but if I came and say let us amend, there will be populists’ sentiments – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Yes, there is no way. Our population is 14 million and we have about 350 Members of Parliament.
Japan with a population of 90 million has something of that size in
Parliament. We do not have that size of economy like Japan or the UK – [AN HON. MEMBER: 70 Ministers?] – No, but I am saying it does not need to come from me. Nothing stops you from bringing a motion to say let us reduce the size of our Parliament. You have the power to change the Constitution – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Motivate the discussion – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
HON. CHINAMASA: I am merely saying this in order to provoke debate so that you do not always think that the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development alone can reduce the wage bill. It is all of us.
We know the size of our Government and our Parliament, all that expense is unsustainable – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: The
security sector.] – It is like we are using Parliament as a source of employment and not a platform to represent the interests of the people – [HON. MEMBERS: Oh, Yes! Correct, correct.] – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] – [AN HON. MEMBER: Zvauri kutaura zvine musoro.].
Mr. Speaker Sir, I had already answered you on the issue about the arrest of the driver. Why has he been arrested? You asked a question, what happened between Saturday and today? To be honest, what exactly do you mean? What I know is, I was completely surprised because all the economic indicators are in the right direction. Gold, platinum and coal production are going up. Ferro chrome and horticulture exports are going up. The trade imbalance is narrowing. The only problem is the
fiscal deficit.
Now, everything else is going in the right direction. The agricultural production, whether you are talking about maize, soyabean, sugarcane and so on, all going up – [HON. MISIHAIRABWIMUSHONGA: Saka chii chakaitika?] – You should tell me. All I can only say and it is speculation, is that there is an evil force somewhere which triggered panic. It does not matter where the force is coming from but that force is evil and clearly noticing that we are succeeding, did not want us to succeed and triggered panic because everything was caused by panic.
Any panic anywhere in the world, if we all panicked and if people in Europe panicked and said they wanted their money from J. P.
Morgan, it will collapse and it nearly collapsed because of that panic – [AN HON. MEMBER: That is true.] – So in a management of an economy panic should not be the case and what happened was panic.
Fortunately, when they said there is no fuel we knew there was fuel. Like I have mentioned, we have 200 million litres of fuel. So, it is not difficult for us to replenish what has out of the fuel stations. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Kune maqueue, hakuna diesel.] – It is just a question of logistics to deliver the product, that is all. Just imagine every fuel station being empty and the logistical capacity is not there to do it overnight. That exactly is what happened.
You raised a question Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga and this question has been brought up again and again. It is not easy to bring a currency over which you have no control over its value, and how it fluctuates or strengthens. You have no participation in the decision. It is not different from the current situation. So, we cannot translate or exchange a problem we are facing with a similar problem we know is going to happen. In any case, the Rand is part of the basket. Nothing stops anyone from using the Rand. What has just happened is that the Zimbabweans do not want the Rand, the British Pound or Euro; they just want the US$ and understandably so because the US$ is a global reserve currency. Some countries actually build vaults to store United States dollars as a store of value. The problem we are having is that we are using it as a medium of exchange and obviously whoever has got good ideas can come and see how they can siphon that US$ from outside our market. That basically is a problem with the US$. So, I want us to understand that it is not an easy solution. Let us go on the way we are doing; let us try to build our reserves. I was asked a question – what are you doing to build your reserves? We are at the moment trying to capitalise some of our gold companies so that a percentage of their gold production can be set aside for reserves.
Given that we are living from hand to mouth, it is not something that can happen again over night. I think I have answered Hon. Chibaya [HON. CHIBAYA: Ahh.] – Yes, about arrest, I have answered for violators. You are arrested if you trade in currency not for possession –
[HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: US$ versus Bond notes.] –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. CHINAMASA: I cannot say that. All I can say is that if you are talking about the parallel market which is illegal which we are trying to stop, I do not know – [Laughter.] – No, I would not know, it is you who can tell me if you are trading in that market. All I can say in all honesty is, for as long as there is shortage of foreign currency, you cannot entirely wipe out parallel market activities - you cannot. You cannot as a rule of law say it will not happen. It will happen; all we can do is to try to manage it within manageable levels. Hon. Mupfumi, again we are not yet there with respect to the Rand, US$, Euro accounts and I think that we leave it again to the monetary authorities.
Hon. Musanhi, with respect to retention, we will not come there yet until we are in a situation where we have introduced our own currency and we are now building basically having an exchange rate between our local currency and the US$. Hon. Gonese, to be honest, given the levels of bond notes that we are being issued; we did not consider that the expense of an independent board was justified. So, for that reason, we resorted to a mechanism which was already there that the Audit Committee is chaired by the Vice Chairman of the board who is an independent..
HON. MUSANHI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MUSANHI: Hon. Minister, my question was directed to some minerals that have retention and some minerals that do not have retention when all of these minerals are bringing foreign currency. So, I want clarity on the gold side. Why is gold not given a percentage of retention when all other minerals are getting that retention?
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am not exactly sure I understand the question. What I know is that all exporters have been enjoying the export incentive varying from 2.5% depending with the class of exporter to 5% with respect to artisanal miners, with respect to tobacco producers. What I also know Mr. Speaker Sir, is that as we are moving away now like I pointed out earlier in my statement; with respect to foreign currency receipts from export of tobacco, gold, platinum, ferrochrome and diamonds, that foreign currency is going to be managed by the Reserve Bank. With the proviso that the Reserve Bank must ensure that it does not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Those who are producing for export will also need to be supported in the importation of spare parts and whatever they need in order to carry their export activities. As to whether there is a fixed amount, I will enquire and advise the Hon. Member accordingly. Currently, I am not aware.
Hon. Matambanadzo, I am not sure what you actually said, I wish I could have understood what you said. But let me say this, the Ministry of Finance or the Reserve Bank have not gone onto the streets to buy foreign currency. I do not know what he said, maybe you can explain.
When Hon. Chamisa stood up, he almost was like saying that is what Hon. Matambanadzo said. So, he was wrong – [HON.
MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: He said he got money from the
Reserve Bank and he took it because anga ari mabond and went to the parallel market to get US$.] – So, we now know who is causing the parallel market but again, it is an abuse. Is Hon. Matambanadzo still here? – [HON. MEMBERS: No.] – it is an abuse because I know Mr.
Speaker, that Mr. Matambanadzo is one of many gold buying agents. When they are given that money it is not to trade on the streets, it is to go and pay for gold deliveries from artisanal miners when they go to where the mining is taking place – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] - So, he is making a confession which basically means that after receiving this information he is not qualified to be a gold buying agent – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Let me say this, ataura muParliament, he is protected but that information is very good. It can be used [HON. CHIBAYA: But he was honest.] – Very good, it can be used. The point I want to make....
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: On a point of order Mr.
Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I think let us get this
very clear from the Minister because if he now says when an Hon.
Member stood in this House covered by Parliamentary Immunities and Privileges Act, he is now going to be disqualified, I think it is unfair because he is covered by Parliamentary Immunities and Privileges Act. I want the Minister to at least formally withdraw that statement because it is a dangerous statement for some of us who sit here believing that we are protected – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, I think if I heard him well, he
said I am sure when they sell their gold, they are given part of a percentage in US$ and the other in bond notes. So, he was not given the actual US$ he was supposed to be given. That is what he was saying.
HON. CHINAMASA: All I can say is that there is nothing to stop me from investigating information that is given in this House. It is not privileged and we are not excluded from investigating it. All we can say Mr. Speaker Sir, is that it is very important information and the arrangement is that if you are a gold buying agent, you are given money not to buy US$ on the street but to go and buy gold to pay to artisanal miners – [HON. MUTSEYAMI: But maminers anoda US$ka.] – and if
there is a deviation from that procedure, it is wrong. I think we also have the privilege to say that Mr. Speaker Sir, and what I think we need to emphasise is that if we have discipline, if money is given out to a gold buying agent to pay to artisanal miners, I would rather if he had stood to say it was the artisanal miners who went on the street. That I would understand but not as a gold …
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker …
HON. CHINAMASA: And also Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, may I put across my point of order?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, at inception, the Hon. Minister said that he really did not get clearly what Hon. Matambanadzo said. In order that we do not speculate, for him, even after visiting the Hansard or getting the Hon. Member to clarify his point. Seriously, the way he is articulating what Hon. Matambanadzo articulated is not the way I understood it to mean – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It is only prudent that facts be put on the table and the points be put there so that the Hon. Member can have an opportunity to be heard correctly. If we go in the manner we are going; the heading and the direction, this man will be interrogated and questioned for a wrong line of thought that
I think the Minister has now taken.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I agree with you because he was so clear only that we have forgotten but he was so clear with what he wanted to explain.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker, I am not a vindictive person. I will wait until the Hansard is out to see and read what exactly was said but I was just laying down the position or what should happen; and that if there is a departure from that procedure, it is wrong.
Until recently, Fidelity was not buying gold which weighed five grams and below from artisanal. They considered it too little or whatever. Hon. Matambanadzo and Hon. Nduna approached me here to say that should not happen. I gave a directive that Fidelity should buy any amount of gold irrespective of quantity and to pay cash. I have no problem if artisanal miners are paid cash. What I have a problem with is basically whatever happens between Fidelity and the artisanal miners. I need to make that position very clear.
*HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order. I heard the Minister saying that he will look into this issue; I passed through his shop at Headlands and the personnel refused to accept plastic money and wanted cash only. These people may be doing this without the Minister’s knowledge. I am actually investigating these people at Redan Headlands so that it will be well with all of us – [Laughter.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: There is no point of order there.
HON. CHINAMASA: That is just a malicious allegation. It does not deserve my response.
Hon. Chamisa, I agree with you that our institutions should be of integrity and so far, I have no evidence that there are any problems affecting their integrity. There was a question about removing bond notes. Memories are short. Only last year, there was no US dollar
United states in circulation –[AN HON. MEMBER: Aah, yaive iriko.] – No, no, no. In fact, there were loads and loads of US dollars siphoned out of this market and we all know that and there was no medium of exchange at all – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Anyway, when all has been said and done, it is an issue of confidence.
On the lifestyle audits, ZIMRA is actually undertaking them – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We will start with the Hon. Members of Parliament – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI: Haa ini hapana chamunowana, sorry, huyai.] –
You also asked what we are doing to build reserves. As of now, we are living from hand to mouth as far as foreign currency is concerned. When we are talking about reserves, we are essentially talking about United States dollars and that we should stack it away and try to build a six months cover which is international best practice – import cover. Now, at the moment, like I pointed out; we have 0.7 month cover. So, the strategy is to identify some of our gold mines; support them and capitalise them to produce more gold and to set aside a portion of that gold towards reserves. But again, it cannot happen overnight. To me, I think that building reserves is very critical to the time when we come to introduce our own local currency so that the reserves can anchor and give stability to the new currency when it is introduced.
Hon. Majome, to be honest; I said again that the issue was basically panic buying which triggered people to go and buy groceries to be used within a month or three weeks. I do not know how many months supply you bought going forward. You have probably run out of money because you bought goods that you were supposed to buy next year. Again, what has also come from this phenomenon is; everybody say that people have no money. There is this panic buying and now everybody has got money. The allegation was that they are refusing plastic money but people were buying in cash – [HON. MAJOME: All we can afford.] – No, no, no! It is just lack of discipline. That is the point. Where did the people get the money to do that panic buying for goods to use for the next six months or so? This should tell you something.
You talked about policy consistency and I agree with you. Like I mentioned, I am not in favour of price controls. I believe that we should use market friendly policies to grow our economy. In fact, price controls could worsen the situation. The trick again like I said, is to increase foreign currency generation.
With respect to Kwese TV, I have no objection to it being licensed. I do not know who said it was being refused a license. I do not know where this is coming from. I really do not know but if you ask me, we have DSTV which as you know, there was a question to say that Multichoice refuses to accept other modes of payment – but of course, the regulations are addressing that. Everyone should accept as legal tender any forms of payment which are legal and electronic transfers are legal. You should have an account of course. As to Kwese; to be honest, my own position is that it should be licenced. I have no problem.
On diaspora remittances, you are raising an issue which is beyond me. You said they should be represented and so on – that is up to Parliament. Why did you not sort it out during the Constitution making process – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - Aaah do not give the blame to anybody. We came up with a new Constitution and we said for now, diasporans cannot have representation. It was not the responsibility of an individual. It was collective action – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you very much for the contributions and I am very grateful for this debate. I now have new insight into our problems and I hope that with this new insight, we can come up with measures that can stabilise our economy. I thank you.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order, the Hon. Minister did not address what difference is there between the existing statutory instrument criminalising on selling – how different it is from the existing one on exchange of - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ADV. CHINAMASA: I have addressed all the questions. I have been on the floor on my feet since quarter past two. It is now six o’clock p.m. answering the same questions and explaining the same issues. We can address some of these issues outside the Chamber especially with Hon. Majome - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker.
Honestly speaking, we want to thank you and it must be appreciated. We want to really thank you. You are trying your best Hon. Minister. It is a difficult thing but we appreciate. May that effort continue?
We also want to thank Mr. Speaker, if you at the number of MPs who are here, it will tell you that these are serious MPs when it comes to the interests of the people. We also want to thank you Mr. Speaker for being in the Chair, of course you have little options but we appreciate your presence for appreciating the long seeking of clarifications, we thank you. We just hope, Hon. Chinamasa, God will bless you and all the reshuffles will avoid you, we are really praying. Thank you very much – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chamisa. As a
Pastor, it is not surprising for you to appreciate that.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MAJOME: My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, is in terms of Standing Order No. 20 (e) of our very own Standing Rules and Orders which requires that Portfolio Committees must consider or deal with all International Treaties, Conventions and Agreements relevant to it which are from time to time negotiated, entered to or agreed upon. I rise to say this because we have become very good at breaking our Standing Rules and Orders. I have raised this point of order numerous times but this is not being adhered to. We do not seem to pay sufficient attention to the terms of treaties. This is an obligatory provision. We might as well amend the Standing Rules and Orders if you do not want the bureaucracy of doing that. So, I rise to say that when the Hon. Ministers give their notices of motion – possibly have they taken them to the Portfolio Committees or are they going to now do it because this is a requirement for all international treaties, conventions and agreements which are from time to time negotiated, entered into and agreed upon. I am sure the Hon, Minister’s treaties have been negotiated, entered into and even agreed upon. May we now for the first time adhere to our own Standing Rules and Orders or we amend them and we just repeal this because if we do not take ourselves seriously - can we just do what we said we would do?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I am informed that there is nothing that would stop the Committees to debate the same issue. From here, it will go to the committees.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA) the House
adjourned at Two Minutes to Six o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 3rd October, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 27th September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
DELAYS IN COMING TO PARLIAMENT
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House
that owing to the Cabinet meeting today, most of the Cabinet Ministers will therefore be late for Question Time.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM CABINET MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I also have received apologies from the Hon. Vice President and Minister of National Healing, Peace, and Reconciliation and the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the
presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of a delegation from Zimbabwe
Christian Ministries Association. You are most welcome. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. MLISWA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. You have
just mentioned that Cabinet Ministers are in Cabinet right now.
According to the Constitution Section 107 (2), it states that every Vice
President, Minister and Deputy Minister must attend Parliament and Parliamentary Committee in order to answer questions concerning matters for which he or she is collectively or individually responsible. We have Deputy Ministers and they work with their Ministers; they must equally respond.
Madam Speaker, we cannot have a situation where Cabinet
Ministers are not attending; the Deputy Ministers equally not attending, which then renders the whole Cabinet dysfunctional. Clearly, there are a lot of issues especially with the economy, the way it is right now. I was hoping that the President in his wisdom would equally have a situation where Cabinet does not happen on a Wednesday when there is a serious economic situation in the country. I was hoping that since Parliament is another arm of State which has an oversight role over Ministers, they could have been here to respond to a lot of issues which really need answers. The country is not in a good state and we would have wanted especially the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to be here to respond to a number of issues.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I understand what you are
saying and I agree with you Hon. Member. That is why I had to inform the House about the Cabinet meeting. It was not supposed to be done on a Wednesday but due to other circumstances it is taking place on a Wednesday.
HON. GONESE: I hear you Madam Speaker. In view of the important issue raised by Hon. Mliswa that we have got very serious matters concerning the nation and in view of your announcement that the Ministers will be delayed, it appears sensible to me that instead of having that one and a half hours eaten away when Hon. Members are asking questions to Deputy Ministers, some of whom may not be able to adequately respond to the issues raised since they do not sit in Cabinet – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I was going to suggest Madam Speaker, that we defer Questions Without Notice so that perhaps we may anticipate that within an hour or so they would have come then we can deal with other business. It is a suggestion Madam Speaker, that in order for us to do justice to important matters facing the nation and us; we can then stand down Questions Without Notice say up to about 1515 hours in anticipation of extended time when they come. If we could have that understanding Madam Speaker.
While I am still on the floor, alternatively we can then say, with your understanding that question time will then have to be extended at the appropriate stage to enable us to be able to ask the relevant questions. I have also made an observation that in terms of our Constitution and in order to make Parliament accessible to the public, we normally have live coverage of this particular session but for the second week running, I do not know whether it is by accident or design that again today 27 September, 2017 as happened on 20 September, 2017 we do not have live coverage. We made that resolution in order to fulfill the provision of the Constitution which entails live coverage so that the people of Zimbabwe can follow, particularly on this day when it is critical that important matters are asked of Ministers. That is also why, in terms of Section 107, it is obligatory for Ministers to attend Parliament in order to answer questions and this is also strengthened by our Standing Orders. So for that reason, I just wanted clarification Madam Speaker.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: If I may start with the issue of live coverage, I am equally surprised. I think I am going to ask
Administration so that it checks what is happening. Then on the issue of Ministers, the bench is full. I have seen Deputy Ministers answering questions ever since I came to this House. So, I think those with questions which can be answered by Ministers who are here can proceed to ask their questions.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement. What is Government policy with regards to deceased estates? I am asking because the children are now being chased away from their deceased fathers’ properties. Your Ministry is now causing confusion in that regard.
What is Government’s policy and how are you going to look into that because orphans are being abused.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Government’s policy
does not allow a deceased person’s land to be taken away by anyone. Once that happens you should make a report. Furthermore, there is an inheritance process when one is deceased. The law that is in accordance with the deceased estates should take its course. We know that there are others who quickly take over land from widows as soon as their husbands are deceased. Ever since we came into that Ministry, women who have had their land taken were having their land restituted. As women MPs, we urge you to tell the women that once land has been allocated and the husband is now deceased, the wife should go and live on the farm. It will cost Government a lot of money when they have to send its officers to go and bar the new invaders on that land. We urge women to follow the law as regards the law of inheritance.
*HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: Thank you Hon. Minister. Yesterday, an orphan was removed from the barns of a house and was put in an area with thorns where the land has not been prepared. Can I be allowed to bring a paper or to bring the said family to you so that you can assist them?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is exactly what the
Minister said in her response, so there is no need for you to say you will go and do it. Go and do it.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: The Minister answered very well but I
think there are some gaps because when people want to report after losing their land it is a challenge. Where are they supposed to report? Are they supposed to go to the person who issued them the land because their system as a Ministry is not ideal at all? Where are they supposed to report? If people go to the Minister, will the Minister not request one to make an appointment before they go to see him? So, who exactly are they supposed to see and where are they supposed to go and report because we know that these people can be tricked. They cannot also go to the Permanent Secretary. So, those who are losing their land, to whom exactly are they supposed to report?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon.
Chinotimba for the question. Everything is done procedurally. When someone loses his/her land, they can go to the district and if they do not get any results they go to the next office. If it still fails, they can go to the Deputy Minister or the Minister. I always say that we do have an open door policy and there are a lot of women whom we gave back their land. If a woman or man comes and says that they have lost their land,be it an orphan or anyone - I can give an example…
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We asked the Minister and
she is explaining, so may we please give her a chance to explain.
*HON CHIKWAMA: I can give an example of Hon. Mahoka; she brought her children who had lost their land for years and we went and solved the issue and they got their land back. If you lose your land, your first port of call is the district, if you do not get anything fruitful; you go up the ladder until you get to the highest office.
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister, the offices that you are talking about, are the very offices that Hon. Chinotimba said they are engaging in corruption. They are the ones who facilitate the loss of land. So, can you clarify to this House the mandate of the Lands Commission and their parameters? In our opinion, it is the Land Commission that is supposed to be doing that.
*HON CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. When you talk of corruption, there is a law against it, you are supposed to expose that person and they will be brought to book through the courts.
On the issue of the Lands Commission, we know that the Lands
Commission is in the Constitution and I am sure you are aware of their mandate. They do a periodic audit and they also deal with land dispute. They are the ones who deal with disputes.
*HON. NDUNA: The reason why there is a rampant issue of such occurrences it is because of ….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please ask the supplementary question?
HON. NDUNA: I have been advised to speak in Shona. In
Chegutu, there is a woman, a lands officer whose husband is in Kadoma. So, if you remove a male and take him to another town and bring the wife in that area, there will not be anyone to solve that issue. So, what is left in Chegutu is that they are losing their land, it was taken by the wife, and they are failing to solve the problems.
So my question is, why do you have an attitude that once you remove a man from the lands you put the wife who is married to this man.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Is that an example, you have been talking about Chegutu. Order, Order Hon Nduna, if I call for order, you sit down; you are not a new person in the House. Please pose your question and ensure that it is specific.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What is causing these challenges is that -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]Hon. Minister, I do not think it is right to remove the lands officer who is male and then put his wife. This problem cannot be solved in this manner. I gave an example that you removed a lands officer in Chegutu and put him in Kadoma and then you put the wife in Kadoma. I am saying that we cannot solve these challenges if the situation is like that.
You should put other officers who are not related in different areas. Why not put people who are not related to ensure that the challenge is solved.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, this is supposed
to be a supplementary question. Please pose your question in relation to children who lost their land because their parents are deceased not the transfer of Ministers.
*HON. NDUNA: Minister, why is it that people who are related are still given posts within the land offices instead of taking people who are not related, for example in Chegutu and Kadoma?
HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I realised
Hon. Nduna’s question is related to the transfer of husband and wife. We are the Ministry of Lands; we are there to allocate land. In terms of employment of people, it has nothing to do with us. There are other Ministries to deal with that. I thank you.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Health. First of all, I would like to appreciate the efforts by the Ministry for making sure that there are breast cancer screening facilities in three hospitals, that is Mpilo Central, Harare Central and Mutare Central Hospital - even though they are not enough for the population, but I would like to appreciate their efforts. At the same time I would like to appreciate their efforts of making sure that breast cancer screening is for free, because some of the hospitals were charging $50 and Mpilo Central Hospital was charging $25.00.
My question is that, as much as there is breast cancer screening, let us assume a person has been diagnosed with breast cancer, is there any medication for that? is there any chemotherapy to make sure that whoever has been diagnosed is treated. I would also like to thank NAC for procuring those machines. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to thank the Hon. Member for her appreciation. Yes, it is very important for the nation to focus on cancer, because it has become one of the biggest killers of our nation. Early cancer screening is one of the …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Minister. I
feel this question is very important to every Member of Parliament who is in this House. If you can listen to the Minister who is giving his answer because you are going to help your constituents. However, I hear voices of people who are making meetings here.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I hear what he is saying.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, I agree with what you are
saying. The voices are overshadowing his voice. I also believe that the administration in terms of ICT needs to raise the volume of these speakers so that we also hear.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. I
think administration has taken note of that.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please raise your
voice.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: My apologies. Hon. Speaker I have got a bit of a cold. However, I wanted to say the Ministry is focusing on cancer treatment because it has become one of the biggest killers in the nation. Early screening means the difference between life and death, so to afford our people an early screening means we have got a chance to then either allow the patients to go for surgery then chemotherapy. We actually have invested in both chemotherapy and operational guidelines both in Harare and Bulawayo. So the screening is very important. That is why we have emphasised that it must be free and affordable to everyone. Thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. May you enlighten me on Government policy on the issue of people who are having challenges because they were given Identity Cards written alien? Right now people are getting new Identity Cards. I do not know what Government policy is for those who were given Identity Cards written alien. What are they supposed to do? The law says if a person is born in Zimbabwe, he is Zimbabwean. So, I would want the Minister to enlighten us on what Government policy is concerning the issue of children and people who are suffering because of their Identity Cards written alien.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The policy we have in
Zimbabwe says, if a foreign mother or father comes to Zimbabwe and a child is born, the birth certificate will indicate the country of origin of his father which is alien as she mentioned. That is the policy we have.
We have not changed it to other means but it is there, it stands for now –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Now,
you are debating among yourselves.
*HON. MAHOKA: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I would want
to thank the Deputy Minister for his response. I do not think what the Minister is saying is true. He is reading the Constitution and interpreting it wrongly because as I speak right now, if I am to ask the Minister to go out to an area where birth certificates are being issued, children who were given Identity Cards and were named aliens yet they were born
here are facing challenges. Madam Speaker, I can go and collect those Identity Cards and birth certificates as evidence that they were born here. They are not able to get Identity Cards written citizen. That is happening here in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are
saying that children were given birth certificates written alien. Now they want to acquire Identity Cards, they are getting them and they are written alien.
+HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. This question has come out on several occasions here in Parliament. Hon. Mahoka has asked that question again today standing there.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, if you can
help me. This question is very important to everyone here because people are registering. If you can just give the answer in English so that those who understand Shona can hear you – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - Before you answer there is a point of order HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I have got
a very important point of order. In terms of our Constitution, Section 6 to be precise, we have got languages which are recognised and I believe that all Hon. Members are free to express themselves in whichever language they feel free. I believe Madam Speaker, I do not know whether it was a ruling or a suggestion that the Hon. Deputy Minister should answer in English was not appropriate…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. You did not understand me Hon. Member.
HON. GONESE: Some of us are trying very hard to learn Ndebele
so that we can understand what is being said. I think it is important for all of us to learn these languages – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I believe that the suggestion was unfortunate.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. T. Khumalo. Can
we have order in the House? Can we please understand each other here?
There is no need for you to make noise.
The person who posed the question was Hon. Mahoka and she put in a supplementary question. Now, the Minister was answering – so as the Chair, I knew this question was very important to everyone. So, I thought if he uses the language which everyone in this House understands, it is going to be better – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- He is there, he can answer. After answering in Ndebele, he can again answer in Shona because that one does not understand.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. This question has always been brought here because people want to understand. This matter emanates from the Act which states that a person born of a foreigner, that person’s birth certificate or national identity documents should indicate that he or she is an alien. Section 38(2) of our Constitution, says something else. It says a person who continuously and lawfully resides in Zimbabwe for ten years becomes a citizen. Again if you go to the indigenisation policy it requires that a person’s background should be verified so that the benefits enjoyed are not equivalent to a citizen. That caused the Ministry of Home Affairs to indicate that the person is alien or a foreigner coming from outside so that he does not benefit equally with a citizen.
What is important is this, we should, as Home Affairs and I remember I promised Parliament to take that Act and realign it to the Constitution. This is what is obtaining right now. If one of the parents is a citizen and another a foreigner, in this programme that we have their children will be given the registration documents for free as Zimbabweans. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Supplementary question. On that issue
of people facing challenges, I wanted you to enlighten us that you said that no money would be paid for birth certificates but in some areas they had begun charging people. Are you going to come back because in those areas people were not able to get their national identity cards because of lack of funds? Are you going to go back to those areas to ensure that people get their IDs so that they get the same privileges as in other areas?
*HON. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, there are areas where our
teams started issuing birth certificates before the Statutory Instrument came into force. So, we requested the teams to go back and the other teams will go back again next week to start the exercise of issuing free birth certificates and death certificates. I thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: My supplementary question goes to the
Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. We realise that in other jurisdictions that are now obtaining across the whole world, registration of birth certificates, birth records, NSSA numbers, allocation of all other numbers that are important in the life of a citizen is now being done online in real time as and when a person is born so that you do not need to do things in a primitive way whereby you go into the various areas to say come and register. Are we going to see, in terms of policy, a situation whereby Government is going to introduce an online eregistration process so that you just get your birth registration, national drivers licence number which is activated upon you going into a process of qualifying for passport. This is modern – I was Minister of ICT and it is very simple. Are you having problems in Government so that I can come back to assist you? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the pertinent question. However some of the things should be directed to VID, Ministry of Transport. What is within us is that we have tried and we have moved forward. We need the backing from these network systems so that when we are on line, they do not go down so that we produce the civic registration correctly. At the moment we have also moved a step higher.
If you look at the birth certificates that we issue now, they already have ID Numbers. We issue a birth certificate that has got an ID Number now so that when you are 16 years, you just go to the office and collect your ID. We are improving. I think the Hon. Member will bear with us and see that we are coming up. We are a nation that is developing and we will be moving up there where he wants us to be. I thank you.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker...
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madam Speaker, when
the previous Madam Speaker was there, she was talking about the issue of registration. One of the things that she insisted on was that it is a critical issue because of the process that we are going through, and if we were coming up for supplementary questions that relate to registration, honestly I think you should give time for people to raise their questions because that is what we are going through right now. It does not make sense that you are stopping questions around registration.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA: Hon.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga, our procedures say that we can only have four supplementary questions on each question so that is why I am saying this is the last question.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I agree because my
supplementary question would have been the fourth one, but I am saying given the issue that you are raising right now, the previous Madam Speaker said she was varying the processes because she wanted everybody to understand the registration process, but now you are going back on your work. Anyway, if you are saying fourth, then the fourth one will be a supplementary question that I am going to raise Madam Speaker and I hope you will allow me to do so.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary is Minister, may you please go and read this law correctly. There is Section 38 (2) which says if a person has stayed for ten years in that country and they have children who have stayed in that country, they should automatically qualify for citizenship. This thing is affecting us and you should take it seriously. Sorry, I have vacillated into English. You need to seriously consider this issue because I am an urban Member of Parliament in Kwekwe. I have ten big mines. There were aliens that were employed by these big mines and they now have children.
When you were doing delimitation, for me to be an MP for that constituency, there were 21 000 people and I and my counterpart were arguing on the 12 000 voters and the rest are aliens and it is causing us problems. These people are key persons who hold positions in our party and they are voting. What are we doing and what is our way forward? It does not work. It is irrelevant whether it is MDC or ZANU PF. They have positions and they are not voting either for ZANU PF and even the MDC...
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Matambanadzo. Order Hon. Members. Hon. Matambanadzo when we have given you an opportunity to ask a question, we want you to go straight to the question and not to give other explanations.
+ THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. That is what I explained on Section 38 (2). I was speaking on the indigenisation policy. What he was saying is that those who are of the same thinking like Matambanadzo should meet with the Registrar General and discuss this matter so that they understand what the law says about this matter. I thank you Madam Speaker.
Hon. Phiri having stood up to contribute.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Phiri.
HON. MLISWA: The question I want to ask the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs is going in circles. When is his Ministry bringing a Bill to Parliament to align this to everything that he says? The problem is that the Bill has not come to Parliament and the day the Bill comes to Parliament, all this will not be a problem. When are you bringing a Bill to Parliament to align this so that all these issues are dealt with?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. This is a noble question Hon. Mliswa. I am aware that Mr. Mudede the Registrar-General has done that Bill. It went to Ministry of Justice. It is on its way. We would like to speed up so that it comes here. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. PHIRI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order
Hon. Phiri?
HON. PHIRI: Madam Speaker, Parliament is too small for us to all sit in the front. This side we have been standing and nobody sees us. May be we are dark in complexion or what? Parliament is not the front only, even at the back there are Hon. Members. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order
there. Order Hon. Members. Order Hon. Mandipaka.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madam Speaker, I am
beginning to think that this is sexual harassment because he did not say so when the men were standing up and you think you can abuse me because I am a woman. I take it serious. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [AN HON. MRMBER: On a point of order.]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I am not
taking any point of order. I have recognized Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My question to the
Deputy Minister of Home affairs is, to be clear, if you are talking about people making applications, do they approach you with money or not? I spoke to the RG yesterday and he said you have put in place some other regulations that those with IDs should go and change their alien IDs so that it indicates that they are now citizens for free. From what I am hearing, it seems the Minister is saying there are some regulations which are to come but the Registrar General is saying something else. I was of the belief that you were going to be very clear on this matter that we have agreed on this and also that the Treasury has also agreed that people should go and register for free. Now, I do not know what is going on. Can you be clear what the policy is on this matter about people whose identification should be changed. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. I explained clearly that the policy which is in place now, at the time when we were doing this programme, the law provides that if a child is born of parents where one is a Zimbabwean and another a foreign citizen, that child should be registered for free as a citizen of Zimbabwe.
+ HON. M. M. MPOFU: I thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development. I request the Deputy Minister to explain because I was sent by my constituents. There are two mines which used to help my people in my constituency. They have gone for three years without being opened. What is the reason for that so that I may go back and give feed back? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
actually did not clearly get the question, if the Hon. Member could assist me.
+HON. M. M. MPOFU: I thank you. Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development, I have been sent by people to ask what has caused the two mines which were closed in my constituency not to open.
HON. F. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me talk about
Mali Green first. The mines are in the same area, in the Hon. Member’s constituency. Mali Green is owned by two off-shore shareholders. They closed the mines on account of non-viability of business. We have recently had applications from our youths from the Midlands Province to acquire limited rights over Mali Green so that they can try and open the mines and operate. We referred the applications to one of the owners of the mine who are Freda Rebbeca Mine. It is my understanding that paper work is in process and it has been approved. A Committee that was put together by the community members is in fact going to finalise that transaction. It is my belief that once that is done; limited rights are given, it is now up to the local community to raise funding and reopen the mine.
The other mine which he is talking about, which the Hon. Member called Silobela, I am not sure which one he is referring to. If he can be specific, then I can respond to that one.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think the other one which is
very specific Hon. Member, you can put it in writing for the Hon.
Minister.
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order. Thank you Madam
Speaker. My point of order is in relation to investigation of the disappearance of Itai Dzamara. The Minister of Home Affairs made an undertaking and there is a court order to that effect that this august
House must be updated regularly. The last update that we had from the Minister - from last year, we have never had an update of the investigation. Can this august House be favoured with an update on the investigation on the disappearance of Itai Dzamara, unless if the investigation has also disappeared. We are worried and we need to know what happened to Itai Dzamara.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maondera, this is
question and answer segment. What I will do is that I will allow you after the question and answer session to ask the Hon. Minister when he can respond to what you are talking about but at this moment, let us remain focused to the question and answer.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services and in her absence, to the Deputy Minister. My question is, it is in relation to
NSSA. Pensioners were given a month’s period in which they should re-register using the biometric registration, BVR. There are a lot of pensioners who are in remote areas some of whom do not have registration cards. They have been given a timeline stretching to the 30th and this is insufficient time. If there is anyone who is not registered by the 30th, they will no longer be able to receive their pension. Are you not going to extend the period so that people can access their pensions? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank Hon. Phiri for this pertinent question. The programme where we are undertaking biometric registration for NSSA beneficiaries has been ongoing for a year. We are getting to the end of that particular programme. We once extended the programme so as to reach a lot of people.
Madam Speaker, what we are doing is that we are taking NSSA staff into the remote areas to educate people about the need for them to be registered using the biometric registration system. If there are certain remote areas that we have not yet reached which he feels may be disadvantaged, please submit the names so that we can send teams that will attend to their issues on the ground. It is important that we conclude this programme. I thank you.
*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services is related to this biometric registration that you want pensioners to be registered whilst using plastic money when they already have problems accessing money at banks where they stay overnight, how are they going to access this money? Telecash, Ecocash and other forms of money transfers and plastic monies are not enabling them to get money. How good is this card going to help them when they are going to spend the night at home without food?
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
thank the Hon. Member for her question. I believe we have all understood the issue of plastic money. As a country, we agree that it is useful, but the problems you are talking about that if one has plastic money and there is no hard cash, they can access goods even in the remote areas. What we should be working towards is to have a lot of point of sale machines that accept use of swipe all over the country. It is a good suggestion that pensioners should not be sleeping at the bank, but should use their plastic cards to access their money. As Government, we should be using plastic money so that people can have access. We do agree that NSSA has never defaulted in giving pensioners their pensions. Two or three months ago, we increased the amounts that are due to pensioners – [HON. MEMBERS: A-ah!] – There is no problem with accessing money; people can access their money through point of sale machines, they can swipe. I thank you.
*HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you Madam Speaker. We want
to find out if our Ministers are living with us in this country. It is incorrect to say that cash is not a problem out there. Even if you have money and you want to buy using your plastic card, you buy a product worth $5 for $10. If the pensioner were to do that which is a daily occurrence, the Minister is misdirecting himself. Is he now saying that he is going to ensure that there will not be such problems? I thank you. *HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker for
the opportunity that you have given me so that he can fully appreciate. The point that I made was that if you are a pensioner and you are receiving $80 per month from NSSA, NSSA is transferring the said $80. NSSA has no problems in transferring the $80 that is due to you. The problem might arise when you do not access that money as hard cash, tele-banking or whatever form of banking. I went further to explain Madam Speaker, that the issue of plastic money can then alleviate such problems if there are numerous point of sales because you can buy anything using your plastic money. If the plastic money is not working, it is a question that should be directed to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development so that plastic money can become user friendly. There are people that are corrupt who then charge a $5 item for $10. That is corruption and it is illegal. Let us sit down and ensure that we do things that are good for our country. I thank you.
*HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is to request the Deputy Minister - we have saying ealier today that the Deputy Ministers seem not to know – [THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Point of order haisiri yekuti maDeputy Ministers, taura kuti point of order yacho ndeyei.] – My point of order is that we ask the Hon. Deputy Minister to withdraw the statement that queues have come to an end. He should not lie in this august House. He took an oath to tell the truth and he comes here to say that there are no problems about queues. Can we accept that as a Parliament? Can he please withdraw that statement that queues are not a problem in Zimbabwe because people are sleeping queuing at the banks and that problem has been persisting for more than a year now? Can he please withdraw?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, unfortunately
I did not hear anywhere or maybe I did not quite get where he talked about queues but if the Hon. Deputy Minister said something, please clarify your point.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: I think if Hon. Saruwaka is to
listen carefully to what I am saying; the issue that I have explained to him is that we were considering a question focusing on NSSA. I said NSSA does not have a problem in paying out pensions and we have increased the pensions from $60 to $80. So, this money is transferred into people’s accounts. NSSA does not have a challenge in transferring that money into the accounts. If there is a challenge that a person prefers hard cash or ecocash, that is an external problem and is different from the one that I am talking about. That is why I have redirected this to say deal with it through the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, but I will continue to reiterate that the use of plastic money is in line with global trends and you can access whatever service you want with plastic money. If there is a challenge that the point of sale machines are limited, then it is a challenge. What we should be asking is - what can we do to increase the point of sale machines to ensure that the card is used? I think Hon. Saruwaka understands what I am saying.
*HON. CHIBAYA: On a point of order. It is a point of privilege in terms of Standing Order Number 69 (d) and is in connection with the response given by the Deputy Minister regarding the pensions which are being paid to pensioners. Hon. Minister, you said that you have raised the pension amount from $60 to $80 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. I
have given Hon. Chibaya the floor to raise his point of order. He has not even finished and I have not even given my ruling. I do not know, have you become speakers in this august House?
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What I am
saying is that it is not right to give false evidence to the nation. The pensioners are still getting $60, not $80 that he mentioned in this House. So, I want him to correct that statement.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I do not think this is a point of
order. This is not a point of order and it does not follow.
*HON. MAHOKA: My question goes back to the Minister. What is Government policy, he talked of pensioners that they put money into the pensioners’ accounts hoping that they will access their money using plastic money. In the rural areas where we have the aged who are the owners of the pensions, there are no point of sale machines. What does Government policy say because this was not only meant for people in the urban areas? There are aged and elderly people in the rural areas. What then are you saying about it? How can they access their money without any challenges?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, this
question is clear. The Hon. Members are concerned that the plastic money is not user friendly in rural areas.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
responded to that aspect. Implementation of financial policies is under the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. If there is a challenge that the point of sale machines are not available in the rural areas, it is the relevant Ministry that looks into that. If there is a challenge that our elderly are unable to use swipe machines, the challenge is not in our Ministry but in the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development.
Madam Speaker, all countries the world over transact using plastic money. That is the global trend in terms of development. Hon. Chamisa was talking of E-Commerce. That is where we are moving towards so people must be taught how to use plastic money and that is what we should be doing because that is the global trend. Let us utilize plastic money.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think this issue to do with
plastic money would rather better be dealt with by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. So, if your supplementary question is in relation with that issue, I think let it wait for the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
HON. DR. KHUPE: My question to the Minister is what he
should be alive to is that the majority of Zimbabweans live in the rural areas and these are the pensioners that we are talking about. There are no facilities in the rural areas for swiping. This is why they sleep in queues all the time so they can get their money. Therefore, something has to be done. Yes, we appreciate that we must move with the times but we do not have those facilities in the rural areas.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think I had given a ruling on
this issue when I said this issue can be effectively dealt with by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: On a point of order Madam
Speaker. The only people that are being given a chance to speak are from the MDC side. Why are we not being given a chance to ask questions?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order
Hon. Mashayamombe. The Speaker has discretion to give people the opportunity to ask questions. It was Hon. Phiri, Hon. Mahoka, and before then was Hon. Mpofu. All those are ZANU-PF unless you are suggesting that all the three Members are now MDC.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. What is the deliberate policy that you are crafting to protect the people; especially at bus termini and commuter ranks across the country, bearing in mind that the ordinary person is facing quite a lot of challenges as a result of touts?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. Police operate under POSA where they have to see that there is peace and order in any environment. Then there are the Local Authorities that have their own by-laws to ensure that there is a policy in each city that is followed. That policy is handed to the police for implementation and maintenance of order. The tout issue has been brought to us in a way that people have indicated that their fines are too little. You arrest a tout today and get him to court and he is fined $10 and goes back soon after to continue with his operations.
So, we have to come up with a policy that has hefty fines or imprisonment terms for the touts so that they stop what they are doing in the cities.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: My supplementary question on the issue
of touts is that it is not necessarily in Harare alone. It is all over the country. Is it to do with discipline to manage the touts or it is to do with Government creating employment to manage the touts? What is the problem bearing in mind that this thing is so broad and is mostly affecting the ordinary person who boards public transport. Are we, as a Government supposed to respond simply because a life would have been lost like what happened at Fourth Street yesterday? Now, the police is fully in force at Fourth Street but all along things were happening but nothing was being done. It is only yesterday when we experienced the death of a Zimbabwean that the police came in full force and now there is order but all along there was chaos. What is the problem?
HON. MGUNI: The Harare City Council has declared the area an
illegal bus stop or illegal pirating place. Therefore the police are now there to enforce that policy and that is correct. A lot of policies in various cities as the Hon. Member said need to be put in place by the local authorities and then police will come in and enforce the laws in different or various cities.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is to the Deputy Minister of Local Government Hon. Chingosho. Given the unfortunate incident of a man that was killed at an illegal pick-up point yesterday, which makes sad reading for Zimbabweans, how soon is your Ministry and Government going to introduce a reliable, cheap and efficient bus transport system in the urban set-up so that we do away with touts and decongest our cities?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
(HON. CHINGOSHO): The Ministry of Local Government which is responsible for urban local authorities is in the process of coming up with a Bill in order to improve the transport system in urban authorities. In that Bill, there is going to be some designated points where bus operators are to operate. So, it is in the process and it is going to be introduced in this House very soon.
*HON. MACHINGURA: On a point of order! Thank you Madam Speaker. Every Wednesday, as Members of Parliament we come here to pose questions to Ministers but when we look in our Hansard, you will observe that the Members of Parliament who are given the chance to pose questions are the same Members, always.
Furthermore, if you look at supplementary questions across the political divide, it is the same Members of Parliament that are given the chance again. It is my plea to you Hon. Madam Speaker, to describe a Member if you do not know their name, because they should not be merely standing up and not being afforded a chance to pose questions yet they represent the people’s interests. It is my plea that that issue should be set right. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! I have heard
what you have said Hon. Member. In addition, the majority of those Hon. Members are slow in rising up. Yes, it is the truth but the chief Whips from both political parties should assist us in doing that job.
They are not doing that. However, the rules of Parliament gives the Speaker the discretion to pick any Hon. Member that they would want to pose a question.
HON. MAJOME: May the Deputy Minister confirm that in this
Bill that he has just told the august House, he will introduce in order to bring an urban public transport system of buses that are efficient, safe and affordable. Is he going to respect the devolution of power that was given to local authorities that is in the administration of transport?
In terms of coordinating, also with the police in terms of law enforcement as Hon. Members were asking, it seems to be a law enforcement agent and a local government issue as well as transport issue. Can he confirm that he is going to respect the provision that devolve power, including the power to local authorities to manage transport in their systems and to ensure that they cooperate with the police, coordinate and ensure that there is law and order on our roads. I thank you.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like
to thank Hon. Majome for the supplementary question. Yes, indeed, that is going to be considered in that Bill, devolution of the current system and in that new arrangement, local authorities also realising that transport is one of the sources of income for them. They will be given a part to play in that system. The police will be asked to assist the local authorities to make sure that the system operates smoothly.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: When we started, the Ministers were
said to be on their way to this august House but up until now they have failed to pitch up. The word that I want to spread is that the world over; Parliaments are respected when they are sitting. Cabinet is equally respected. Cabinet, especially on a Wednesday, to show that the President is operating within the law in terms of Section 90 (1), in terms of respecting the Parliament in conjunction with Section 116 in upholding the Constitution, we want the word to reach the President through a written document that they should respect Parliament and enable the Cabinet Ministers to come and answer questions.
We had Hon. V.P. Mphoko represented by Hon. Kanengoni and V. P. Hon. Mnangagwa was represented by Hon. Sibanda but to ask them issues that require the attention of a Vice President, we are unable to. We plead with you to inform His Excellency that Parliament is disappointed with the fact that the Ministers are not respecting our
Parliament, bearing in mind that we are the people’s representatives. We have problems that are facing this country, the President even talked about it; we are always on record talking about it. If they had turned up late, we would say that they were still running late because they were doing other duties. There should not be a parallel structure in terms of Parliament.
Cabinet can be done at night or even Thursday, but for Parliament and Cabinet should run concurrently, it is not good. This is what we are going to think about that there should be a Government that respects the people and Parliament, and that Parliament should be given its due respect. The Deputy Ministers are shouldering a lot of responsibilities, this should be corrected. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have heard your concerns
Hon. Chamisa. I believe you were clearly informed that the Executive which is a superior body was sitting…
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: There is nothing superior about the
Cabinet. Yes, it is not a superior arm; it is the other arm of the State.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: As you are aware, the
President was away, so we believe that Hon. Ministers, once they are done with their Cabinet meeting will come to this august House. We have heard what you have said. We have heard your concerns; any programme should not coincide with the Question and Answer session of Parliament. We are going to give it to the Executive.
HON. MLILO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Hon. Deputy Ministers for coming en masse and for outlining and as well for articulating Government policy. We should commend them for coming like this and we hope they will do the same going forward - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Thank you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
JOBS TO YOUTHS IN GOKWE-NEMBUDZIYA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. WADYAJENA asked the Minister of Youth
Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to explain to the House when the 4500 jobs will be available to the youths of Gokwe Nembudziya Constituency, considering that the Ministry has been registering 500 youths per ward through youth officers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT,
INDIGENISATION AND ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT (HON.
TONGOFA): I seek your indulgency Hon. Speaker for me to bring the answers for Question 1 and 2 next week.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just noted, I was here last week and this question was deferred. The Hon. Minister was not present and I just wanted it to be placed on record that the Minister and his deputy must take the business of Parliament seriously because last week again the question was deferred. We have not seen the
Minister. I know that today there is Cabinet but the Minister, we have never seen him in this august House. I know that Hon. Zhuwao is not a
Member of Parliament but he is a Minister. He may not be a Member of
Parliament …
Hon. Wadyajena having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Wadyajena, can you please sit down. I have given Hon. Gonese the
floor.
HON. GONESE: I just want to remind the Chair that last week, the Hon. Minister was also not present and I believe that this institution must communicate to the Minister that he and his Ministry must take the business of this august House seriously and they must prepare answers. After all, this was a written question. Even if the Minister is not there, the answer should have been prepared by the Ministry officials, which means to say that it is not just the Minister but even the Ministry officials have not taken it upon themselves to prepare the answers timeously.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister of
Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment, I think you have heard the Hon. Member. These questions were asked last week and there were no responses to the questions. So it is important that your Ministry takes note of that and if possible you bring these responses next week to Parliament.
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, I asked Question
Number 1 and 2. However, I did not get any response. I did not hear what the Minister said.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is what we are talking
about. Hon. Gonese was talking about it and I have also spoken to the Minister about it. They will bring the answers next week.
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, let me just highlight
this. These questions have been on the Order Paper since …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have given a ruling. I do not know what you expect.
HON. WADYAJENA: Hon. Minister Zhuwao is going to my
constituency and telling the Youth Officers to chuck off. I need answers to this thing.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, the point of order …
HON. WADYAJENA: It cannot be allowed Madam Speaker. He
is bunking Parliament every day. He does not come to Parliament.
What he knows is going to my constituency.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have already given a ruling.
HON. WADYAJENA: Yes, he goes to my constituency – [AN HON. MEMBER: To do what?] – He is telling the Youth Officers to chuck me out of the constituency – [Laughter.] – No. He must answer these questions.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, Hon.
Gonese has spoken – [HON. WADYAJENA: But I am not Hon.
Gonese.] – on behalf of the whole Parliament to the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment and I have made a ruling. That ruling stands. The Hon. Deputy Minister and the Minister will respond to the questions next week. The questions have been deferred to next week.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, you know we work with time
and certain things are overtaken by events. Your answer is not convincing enough because certain things are overtaken by events. When you go to a doctor and you need a surgery, it must happen within that time or else you will die. So, we are not taking Parliament seriously because there are so many things that are being overtaken by events.
The Deputy Minister being here stands for the Minister.
Hon. Mlilo just got up praising the Deputy Ministers for being here and I think he should retract that because they are here sitting down doing absolutely nothing, wasting tax payers’ money. You must be able to respond. They are just sitting there doing nothing. This House in terms of Section 107 of the Constitution is very clear Madam Speaker. You must tell them to respond to these questions. Why is he not responding to the questions? He has been appointed by the President to discharge his duties according to the Constitution. This is a waste of time and taxpayers’ money. We are letting the nation down.
We have a Member of Parliament who wants questions answered by the Minister because there is interference in his constituency. He is failing to do his job because of the Minister going there. The Minister has the time to go there but he has no time to come to Parliament and respond to issues in this Parliament. Madam Speaker, may you please firm up and get the Minister to respond. You can direct from that seat and get him to respond. If he does not, through the Standing Orders, he can be held in contempt. This is becoming a circus and I think we must stop this show.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, the ruling has
been made and it is final. The written questions are made by making research through the Ministry. The Hon. Deputy Minister Tongofa is here and he has heard it from the Hon. Members; the Hon. Members are not happy. Can you please bring the responses next week? I think we agree on that one – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am not taking any point of
order especially in relation to the issue. I have made a ruling and it is final.
HON. WADYAJENA: I am saying you made a ruling but what will happen next week.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Hon. Deputy Minister
will bring the answer. Hon. Deputy Minister, can you please bring the answer next week? Can you answer through the microphone – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Hon. Speaker, are you telling me there is no coordination between the Minister and his Deputy?] – Let the Hon. Deputy Minister speak! Hon. Tongofa, can you bring the responses next week?
HON. TONGOFA: Yes, I want to bring prepared responses next week.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I have got a question Hon. Speaker. Are you telling us that there is no co-ordination between the Minister and his deputy?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Munengami!
HON. MUNENGAMI: The Deputy Ministers have got the right to answer questions. Why are they now failing to answer the very same questions which you have earlier told us that they can answer the questions? If there is no co-ordination between the Minister and the Deputy Minister, we need to know as Parliament that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. Why are they here? They must be able to answer. The Minister must be able to give him the answer so that at least when he comes here, he will be able to present the papers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think you are out of order Hon. Munengami. You are out of order, I have given a ruling and it is final.
ADDITIONAL DOCTOR FOR MBERENGWA DISTRICT
HOSPITAL
- HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House when Mberengwa District Hospital will have an additional doctor.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Zhou for asking this question. Hon. Zhou wanted to find out when Mberengwa District Hospital is going to have a second doctor.
The scenario we have in Mberengwa District is that Mberengwa District Hospital is a new institution. The old institution was Mnene which was a mission hospital that was designated as a district hospital. As a result, the establishment for Mberengwa Hospital is two doctors. At the moment, one doctor is in position. The other doctor who is supposed to be at Mberengwa because of lack of infrastructure is currently stationed in Gokwe. However, we have allowed an establishment of about 7 doctors from Mberengwa District Hospital. If infrastructure allows, particularly housing, then we will be able to move the doctors to Mberengwa. I thank you.
*HON. ZHOU: My supplementary question is that health facilities should be decentralised to all areas. The doctor that you are talking about is the DMO but he will be doing a lot of work such as administration to manage the entire Mberengwa District. In his absence when he goes to attend to other duties, there will be no one in attendance at the hospital. Are there no other ways that you can use to ensure that you capacitate this hospital because it has been on the plan since 1957?
*HON. DR. MUSIIWA: I would want to thank Hon. Zhou for the
question. It is true that Mberengwa Hospital was constructed in 1957. It was not the designated hospital. When I went to Mberengwa at the beginning of this year, I went with the Midlands Province leadership including the Hon. Member. We agreed that the designation should move from Mnene to Mberengwa District Hospital. It is only this year that the designation has moved from Mnene to Mberengwa.
The doctors that I have talked about that are at Mberengwa are two. Of these two, one of them has a residence and the other doctor has no residence. At the present moment, the other doctor is in Gokwe. If we find accommodation for the second doctor, we have five other doctors that should go to that hospital. There is no infrastructure in terms of accommodation that will enable them to be at that hospital. In our plan for Midlands Province, Mberengwa is one of the districts that we are giving priority to come up with a proper district hospital. Those are the difficulties that we face as regards the issue of doctors at Mberengwa. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My supplementary question to the Deputy
Minister following his assertions that in Mberengwa they will take five more doctors if structures are available; however, there is a general shortage of doctors in the country and now you are promising that if structures are available in Mberengwa you will supply doctors. Where are those doctors because as I speak, Binga District Hospital has got only one doctor who is a DMO out of an establishment of over three doctors? Where are those doctors and why are they waiting for structures in Mberengwa to be built before they are deployed there. Why are they not deployed in other hospitals like Binga if they are there where structures are available?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for
asking that very important question. I want to make a clarification here.
There is no shortage of medical doctors in Zimbabwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Let me explain this. At the beginning of the year, we went to Treasury to ask for the unfreezing of 250 posts for the doctors because the doctors we had did not have employment in Zimbabwe. We had 250 newly graduated doctors who were supposed to be deployed and there was no Treasury concurrence.
When we went to Treasury this was given.
However, of the 250 doctors that were allowed only 117 have taken up these posts as others found greener pastures elsewhere and some of them want to stay in urban areas. That is the reason. If we could provide infrastructure, we have the doctors here, they just do not want to be deployed in the rural areas. I thank you.
HON. MLILO: My supplementary question to the Deputy
Minister is, has the Government policy shifted from – you get healed first and you pay later. Why am I asking this, I see that in most Government hospitals, people are not being attended to because they are carrying no money and people are being chased back home. Has the policy changed from attending to them first and payments later? Please advise on that one?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Your question is new because
here we are talking about the number of doctors. Hon. Zhou can you ask your supplementary question. He is the originator of the question.
HON. MLISWA: How many times does he make a supplementary?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: We will give you a chance. Let
him just ask.
HON. MLISWA: So, you can ask until tomorrow.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No. Maybe he just wants a
clarification. It is a point of clarification and not a supplementary question.
HON. MLISWA: We are a House of rules and records. Are you aware that you are being recorded in case you are forgetting?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Zhou, you may continue
with your clarification?
HON. MLISWA: In terms of the rules, how many times does the originator of a question ask a supplementary question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is not stated. It is my
discretion.
HON. MLISWA: Is that what the rule says?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You can read the rules Hon,
Mliswa. It is my discretion.
HON. MLISWA: Which rule?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, do not try to cause commotion in the House.
HON. MLISWA: We are a House of rules. Which rule?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: If you have your Standing
Orders and you have a provision then state it. I am saying it is my discretion and so I have allowed Hon. Zhou to ask the clarification.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I said the House must be guided by the rules; which Standing Order states that?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, you cannot ask
- I am supposed to be asking….
HON. MLISWA: We are a House of rules Madam Speaker. Let us not depart from rules.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are the one who has raised
the point of order and you have to justify yourself.
HON. MLISWA: But you are saying he said ‘supplementary’.
You originated the question. How many times?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, no, if you have a problem
with that, just bring the provision.
HON. MLISWA: Yes, I have a problem. That is why I am talking to you Madam Speaker. We are a House of rules. Let us not depart from rules.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Where is your provision?
HON. MLISWA: Yourself, which one are you using? Guide me. I am innocent.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, no, no, Hon Mliswa sit down.
HON. MLISWA: You are in the Chair to guide us. The Chair must know all the rules. I do not have to.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is why I said it is my
discretion. So you can sit down.
HON. MLISWA: Where in the Standing Orders does it say – your discretion? I am serious about this.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, go and read your
Standing Rules and Orders.
HON. MLISWA: If you have to get me out of the House, that is okay but I want to know.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Sergeant-at-Arms can you
please get him outside the room.
HON. MLISWA: What for. You are now abusing your powers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No I am not abusing.
HON. MLISWA: I asked which standing rule is being recorded. I will challenge this. You cannot infringe on our rights. We are Members of Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The fact that you are an independent Member of Parliament does not mean you can challenge anyone. Where is the provision? If you are an Independent Member of Parliament, it does not mean you can challenge anyone. Where is your provision? Prove your provision.
HON. MLISWA: You must guide us. The Chair must know
exactly what is happening.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Prove your provision Hon.
Mliswa.
HON. MLISWA: You are sitting there, you must guide people as the Chair and not us.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Take him out!
Hon. Mliswa was escorted out of the House by the Sergeant-atArms.
HON. MLISWA: No, I will go out but I am going to challenge this because you are abusing your powers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is okay, go and challenge anywhere. Hon. Zhou, you may continue.
*HON. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
question to the Hon. Minister is that the doctor that you are saying has accommodation in Mberengwa, that is not correct. He is residing in Zvishavane. Can you not redeploy the doctor who is resident in Gokwe to come and reside in Zvishavane like what his colleague is doing so that he can serve Zvishavane. I thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to thank Hon. Zhou for his supplementary question. The clarification that he is seeking, as a Ministry we are saying while the hospital is there, because of the population that it serves we can then allocate doctors. We have said Mberengwa should have two doctors and that the other doctors will be there once infrastructure such as laboratories and theaters are there so that they can be meaningfully occupied. If the doctor is no longer resident in Mberengwa, I thank you because it is now an administrative problem that we are going to ensure that we take an administrative decision so that those two are at that place in time. I thank you.
COMPLETION OF VICTORIA FALLS HOSPITAL
DURAWALL ERECTION
- HON. B. MPOFU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain to the House when the Ministry anticipates to equip the intensive Care unit at the Victoria Falls District Hospital in view of the fact that there is an increased inflow of tourists to the resort center which may require the services of this facility.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The project was implemented under the Targeted Approach Programme which came to an end early 2014 before the project was completed. However, the project has been slotted in the Ministry’s Public Sector Investment Programme but due to limited fiscus space, we have not received funding to resume works. We will continue to lobby for its funding from Treasury. You are also encouraged to support Central Government in capital intensive projects by approaching local business people and companies to plough back to communities they operate from through corporate social responsibility.
CAPACITATION OF THE VICTORIA FALLS DISTRICT
HOSPITAL INTENSIVE CARE UNIT
- HON. B. MPOFU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House why the durawall erection at the Victoria Falls
Hospital which was commenced in 2013 still remains uncompleted.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHLD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Ministry of
Health and Child Care has already started equipping the Intensive Care Unit with the necessary life support and monitoring equipment to manage critically ill patients. To date, ICU beds and Vital Signs Monitors are already installed in the facility courtesy of the equipment received under the Zimbabwe/China loan agreement. However, we have experienced some delays in the last disbursement of the loan and therefore, we have not yet received the patient ventilators which are also critical for the facility to start operating. Alternative funding is being mobilised in order to meet this requirement.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Zimbabwe
requires foreign currency more than anything else and tourists bring that foreign currency. So, when they go to a tourist area, the first thing that they look for is whether that area has got hospitals which are working. For me, what is important for the Ministry to do is that they must make sure that they give this particular issue a priority so that the Intensive Care Unit starts functioning because installing equipment does not mean it is functioning. So, my question to the Minister is, is the Intensive Care Unit in Victoria Falls functioning or not? You talked about ventilators but is it functioning because tourists will not come where there is no hospital which is fully functional. I thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank
the Hon. Member for raising this key important point because Victoria Falls as we all agree is a tourist hub and one of our major foreign currency earners. The current hospital at Victoria Falls has got an ICU that we could say is outdated but is functional. However, because of its new status as a tourist hub of international repute, we had envisaged as a Ministry to equip it to that level. So, it is that upper level equipment that we are looking at and it is only the ventilators that are in there, but I want to say the ICU is working as I speak now. Thank you.
ELECTRIFICATION OF MBERENGWA NORTH CONSTITUENCY
INSTITUTIONS
- HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to indicate when the following institutions in Mberengwa
North Constituency will be electrified.
- Don Bosco Primary School in Ward 16;
- Ruvuzhe Primary School in Ward 12;
(c ) Langeni Primary School in Ward 12;
- Vhumukwani Primary School in Ward 16;
- Mawani Primary School in Ward 9;
- Chegato Primary School in Ward 15;
- Gaururo Primary School in Ward 12;
- Chaza Clinic in Ward 10;
- Neta Clinic in Ward 36;
- Maziofa Clinic in Ward 17;
- Chingezi Clinic in Ward 11;
- Shauro Clinic in Ward 1.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. SEN. MUZENDA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. Madam Speaker, questions have been raised by many Hon. Members here who want to know when certain institutions in their respective constituencies shall be electrified. Whilst it is the
Government’s responsibility to provide electricity to rural institutions through the Rural Electrification Fund (REF), the available resources have not been enough to meet expectations hence creating a huge backlog.
Currently, REF has been implementing the Rural Electrification
Programme in consultation with Rural District Councils and their Provincial Administrators in coming up with priority projects considering the cost of the project to be involved, equity distribution within the provinces and resource availability. In this regard, REF’s plans to implement the institutions in question are as follows:-
Name of Institutions Proposed year for electrification
Chingezi Clinic (Ward 35) Electrified
Ruvuzhe Primary School | Scheduled for 2017 |
Don Brosco Primary School | 2018-2023 |
Langeni Primary School | 2018-2019 |
Vhumukwani Primary School | 2018-2023 |
Mawani Primary School | 2018-2023 |
Chegato Primary School | Electrified |
Gaururo Primary School | 2018-2023 |
Chaza Clinic | 2018-2023 |
Neta Clinic | 2018-2023 |
Maziofa Clinic | 2018-2023 |
Shauro/Mwenezi Clinic | 2018-2023 |
It must be noted however, that REF is in the process of finalizing a Rural Energy Master Plan (REMP) which will act as a guide in implementing the Rural Electrification Programme. REMP is expected to be completed by the end of the year. Once produced and adopted, the document will form the basis for programming all electrification projects in rural areas including the above mentioned institutions.
Mr. Speaker Sir, once the Rural Energy Master Plan has been finalised, members may engage the Rural Electrification Fund’s Provincial Offices for details regarding electrification of various institutions of interest to them. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. T. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary is just to correct the first part where it is said Chingezi Clinic and Chegato Primary are now electrified. Those institutions have not been electrified. The officials lied to you. The next supplementary is that amongst these institutions, we have power nearby Hon. Minister, where we may need only two or three poles to connect. I think the timeline of 2018 -23 for the completion of your projects is too long where only two or three poles are required to connect electricity in those institutions. It is not a big project which needs to be undertaken.
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am
grateful and I will make an inquiry and get to the bottom of the information that they have supplied to the effect that there is electricity when there is none. I will go to the office and make an inquiry into that.
I would want to promise Hon. Zhou that where there are electrical poles and power and there is need for a few poles to be put up, we will talk to those who are running REA to ensure that they give priority to such areas because it is not that expensive. I thank you.
ACQUISITION OF PRIMARY DOCUMENTS BY ORPHANS
- HON. S. M NDLOVU asked the Minister of Home Affairs to explain the procedures that have to be followed by orphans when they want to acquire primary documents.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. It is not easy to give orphans the primary documents. However, we have got social welfare where the District Social Welfare Officers are allowed to write letters to Home Affairs that will accompany those orphans so that our officers give them the birth certificates and identification documents. Automatically, when you have a birth certificate, you will always get your identity document. So, I advise the Hon. Member to approach the Welfare District Office that will help him with the letters that they have. There is a standard letter that they know they have to write for the orphans. I thank you Madam Speaker.
PAYMENT TOWARDS TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS ON
IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS
- HON. S. M. NDLOVU asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House whether or not clients have to pay for typographical errors on the names appearing on their birth certificates and identity cards.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. Mostly, there are two common errors that arise when someone is applying for the document. It could be a surname spelt wrong, especially on the identity documents or a female written as a male or a date of birth not corresponding with the birth certificate. What is the source of information - it is the birth certificate. It is expected that everyone, whether you are the mother or father you should be given at least 10 minutes to run through the information on the birth certificate of your child. After you have agreed that the information is correct, then it is printed. If the mistake arises on an I.D when you presented your birth certificate which has correct information, it means it is by the office and nobody is allowed, it is illegal from our office to charge somebody when the mistake comes from our office. If that happens, please report it immediately so that we can correct the matter.
HON. BHEBHE: Madam Speaker, there are mistakes that we have seen which are almost a permanent issue in terms of birth certificate issuance. You find that because of languages, I might have a challenge in writing the Nyanja language but I am employed in Hwange where I am supposed to write a Nyanja word and I misspell that word. What is the Ministry doing to make sure that the people that are employed at the source, where they issue birth certificate, you have got the right people that are able to write the correct spellings for our languages?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Hon. Member for your intruding question. The reality is that all Zimbabweans can be deployed anywhere. However, the individuals because this I have said in a paper that it is vital for every officer to respect the people or community where you are deployed and you need to learn the culture of that area. That is what I have told our officials in Home Affairs. Now, if something like that happens to rectify it, you do not need to be charged as well because it was an error by the person who is working under Home Affairs. We need to rectify that mistake freely. I thank you Hon. Member.
HON. BHEBHE: As a clarification, I am not talking about deployment. I am talking about the person who is supposed to - because in an area you might be having the requisite education but vernacular languages have got certain spellings that are not usual. So, what is the policy and what is Government doing to make sure that the people deliberately employed there, I am not worried about the deployment but about correcting the mistake of failing to capture the right spelling on a birth certificate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, can you
repeat your answer. I think he did not quite get your clarification on the issue that he is raising.
HON. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, it is exactly what I answered. He is rephrasing his question but that is what I went through. However, I want to add something here that in our Ministry due to anticorruption policies, we need to rotate people. first of all, the employment policy says you must try as much as possible to get local people due to the following reasons; accommodation, the language barrier with the locals, the use of environment within the community and to make people feel at ease and accessible. However, we have got an anticorruption policy also which says staff must rotate. You stay too much and you become used to the policy. We need to move around. So, it will be found but I am not encouraging them to spell the surnames wrongly because it is offending somebody. If you do not know the language, you have got somebody in the office who knows. Why not share with the team to come up with the correct surname. Even if it is a Tonga one, you need to write the correct surname. I am not defending them but they have to. If the mistake was done by our officers, we rectify it freely Madam Speaker.
ELECTRIFICATION OF CHIVI SOUTH CONSTITUENCY
INSTITUTIONS
- HON. VUTETE asked ask the Minister of Energy and Power
Development to inform the House when the following institutions in
Chivi South Constituency will be electrified;
- Chasiyatende Clinic Ward 23
- Runesu Primary School Ward 25
- Chief Shindi’s Homestead
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SEN. MUZENDA): I thank the Hon.
Member for his question. Madam Speaker, let me start by advising the House that the Ministry of Energy and Power Development is overwhelmed by questions on when certain institutions in different constituencies shall be electrified. Government has the responsibility of providing electricity to rural institutions through the Rural
Electrification Fund (REF). However, the available resources have not been enough to meet expectations, hence creating a huge backlog.
REF’s plans are to electrify all Chief’s homestead this year, subject to availability of funds. In that regard, Chief Shindi’s homestead should be electrified this year.
Madam Speaker, Chasiyatende Clinic was built next to
Chasiyatende Primary School which has already been electrified. Electrification of the clinic will be relatively easy as the same transformer that is in use at the school will be used for the clinic. Through you Madam Speaker, we will make sure that this clinic is electrified because there is not much which is needed. REF’s plans are to electrify the clinic next year. What I need to know is exactly when but we hope that we can try to have that electrified at the beginning of the year.
Runesu Primary School should be electrified by 2019. Please take note however, that REF is in the process of finalising a Rural Energy Master Plan (REMP) which will act as a guide in implementing the Rural Electrification Program. REMP is expected to be completed by the end of the year. Once produced and adopted, the document will form the basis for programming all electrification projects in rural areas, including the above mentioned institutions. Members may then engage the Rural
Electrification Fund’s Provincial Offices for details regarding electrification of various institutions of interest to them.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
REGULATORY FRAMEWORK GOVERNING OPERATIONS OF
GENE TESTING LABORATORIES
- HON. CHAKONA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House whether there is any regulatory framework that governs the operations of the gene testing laboratories in Zimbabwe given the rate at which they are mushrooming in the country and the risks associated with the unregulated and uncontrolled movement of genes.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The legal framework that regulates human gene testing is available and embodied in the Health Professions Act (Chapter 27:19), Section 99 as follows:
99 Health Institutions to be registered.
- (a) No person shall operate or carry on a health institution.
(b) No health practitioner shall practice his profession or calling in or from any health institution: unless he knows or has reason to believe that the health institution is registered in the register of health institutions.
- Any person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level seven or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
In that regard, it is the role of the Health Professions Authority of Zimbabwe to ensure that all health institutions and health practitioners are registered in compliance with the Act.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. C. SIBANDA): Madam Speaker, I
move that Orders of the Day numbers 1 to 6 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 7 on today’s Order Paper has been dealt with.
Motion put and agreed to.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION BILL [H.B. 10A,
2016]
Seventh Order read: Consideration Stage: National Peace and
Reconciliation Bill [H.B. 10A, 2016].
Amendments to Clauses 8, new Clause 9, 11, 12, 15, First and
Second Schedules put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION BILL [H.B. 10A,
2016]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): Madam Speaker, I
now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE
PRESIDENT MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C.C SIBANDA),
the House adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 26th September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House
that I have received Non-Adverse Reports from the Parliamentary Legal
Committee on the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill [H. B. 10, 2016 and the Insolvency Bill [H. B. 11, 2016].
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Good afternoon, Madam Speaker. I came fully prepared to discharge my duties as a Member of Parliament but there are no enough Order Papers.
Is the economic situation that bad that we do not have Order Papers for Members of Parliament?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have heard you Hon.
Member, our Administration will look into that.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker, good
afternoon. My point of order is in terms of Order No. 69 (d), as enshrined in our Standing Rules and Orders Book. I request through you
Madam Speaker that the Hon. Minister responsible for Industry and
Commerce, in conjunction with the Hon. Minister responsible for Finance and Economic Development should come up with a joint statement to give us reasons and factors as to why we have had this sudden increase in prices which shoot up to 300%. I want them to bring us a justification as well for us – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I seek your protection Madam Speaker.
Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Mutseyami having raised points of order during time for Notices of Motions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Mliswa
please. Hon. Members, we have procedures to follow in this House. I am asking for Notices of Motions but you start by raising points of order. Please, can I finish my procedure, then you can always come in, there is no need to rush.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: My point of order is a plea through you
so that we could be assisted by the Minister of Industry and Commerce and the Minister of Finance and Economic development by giving us a joint statement that explains to this august House and the country why in the previous two days, our basic foods have sky rocketed by more than 200%. We want Members of Parliament to be afforded a chance to pose questions. We urge the Ministers to go to the suppliers to find out why there has been that increase and how they are going to be addressing that point. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. It is a
matter on privilege. There was an issue raised by Hon. Mliswa regarding the absence of the Order Paper. I am not sure whether I got the response.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I answered him and said
administration is looking into that.
HON. GONESE: Oh! I had not got the response.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is because you are not
listening and you are making a lot of noise.
HON. GONESE: No, I am listening Madam Speaker. I had not got the response and I just wanted clarity so that I know. – [AN HON
MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why are you saying that, do you want me to send you out? Why are you saying that? I think you need to behave yourself as a woman MP.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): I move that the Second
Reading of the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill be stood over until the rest of the business is disposed of.
HON. DR. SHUMBA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
Good afternoon Madam Speaker. I rise as the Chairperson of the Mines and Energy Portfolio Committee and object to the standing over of the
Mines and Energy Bill. In fact Madam Speaker, we have written to the Minister and cited the constitutional provision Section 141, that indeed the Committee is engaged in consultations with the Minister and that the Minister has prematurely reinstated the motion on the Order Paper. We have made consultations and I move that in fact, the Minister withdraws the motion until we have exhausted provisions provided for under
Section 141 of the Constitution. Madam Speaker, mainly because the Committee has indicated and the Minister has agreed that he was going to invite the Committee for consultations, which consultations have been aborted on two occasions. Madam Speaker, certain aspects of what the Minister proposes to sneak in have in fact, been resolved unanimously
by the Committee that we should seek the Minister to withdraw the motion.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Shumba, I heard the
Minister saying he is just standing over this motion, meaning that he does not want to debate it now but not that he is not going to debate the motion. So, I take it that at the moment we are standing over this motion and we go to other motions. So, I think you can talk to each other about that.
HON. DR. SHUMBA: That is exactly what I am objecting to Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ah! Hon. Shumba, the
Minister …
HON. DR. SHUMBA: Can you hear me out Madam Speaker? THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, you sit down. I
am giving a ruling. Hon. Shumba, the Minister is allowed to prepare himself to bring in the Bill. You cannot force him to debate the Bill now
– no! So, we cannot have that.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETLEMENT
(HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): I move that Order of the Day Number 1, on today’s Order Paper, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 2 has been dealt with.
Motion put and agreed to.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
ZEP-RE (MEMBERSHIP OF ZIMBABWE BRANCH OFFICE)
BILL [H.B.9, 2016]
Second Order read: Consideration Stage: ZEP-RE (Membership of Zimbabwe Branch Office) [H. B. 9, 2016].
Amendment in the Preamble put and agreed to.
Bill as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
ZEP-RE (MEMBERSHIP OF ZIMBABWE BRANCH OFFICE)
BILL [H.B.9, 2016]
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETLEMENT
(HON. DR. MOMBESHORA) On behalf of THE MINISTER OF
FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON.
CHINAMASA): I move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETLEMENT
(HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Number 3 to 4, on today’s Order Paper, be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF AN ADVERSE REPORT ON THE SHOP
LICENCES AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 10, 2016]
Fifth Order read: Committee Stage: Consideration of an Adverse
Report by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Shop Licences
Amendment Bill.
House in Committee.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. In pursuit of its
constitutional mandate as provided for in Section 152 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on the 22nd of August, 2017, at 1115hrs to consider the Shop Licences Amendment Bill [HB, 10 of 2016]. After deliberations, the Committee resolved that an Adverse Report be issued in respect of Clause 7 of the
Bill, amending Section 13 of the Shop Licences Act and Clause 8 of the
Bill, repealing Section 14 of Chapter 14:17. In compliance with Standing Order 32(3), all members of the Committee legally qualified as envisaged by Section 152 (2) of the Constitution, agreed that the Bill contained provisions that if enacted, would violate the Constitution.
On Clause 7;
Clause 7 amends Section 13 (2C) of the Principle Act, which provides fixing of fees to the effect that local authorities must incorporate every licencing fee into their annual budget. Such budgets shall be approved by the Minister. The approval of annual budgets of local authorities by the Minister violates Section 276 of the Constitution, which gives local authorities the right to govern on their own initiatives and the power to make by-laws regulations and the power to levy rates and taxes in order to raise their own revenue.
Mr. Chairman, the involvement of the Minister in local authority business has reduced local authorities to appendages of Central
Government. The Minister’s power to approve local authorities’ budgets is inconsistent with the devolution principles set out in Chapter 14 of the Constitution. The devolution principles grant local authorities new powers and responsibilities in three dimensions, that is, political, administrative and fiscal. These dimensions give local governments discretional space and they should not be unconstitutionally limited. The practice proposed in the Bill is inconsistent with the spirit of the Constitution, leading to serious shortcomings in the administration of Local Government.
Further, Section 129 of the Urban Councils Act provides the
Minister the powers to approve by-laws. This is inconsistent with the Constitution, which advocates for independence of local authorities in governing their initiatives and the power to make by-laws, regulations and the power to levy rates and taxes in order to raise their own revenue. The amendment to Section 13 (2) (c) of the Shop Licences Act takes away the authority conferred by Section 264 (1), which stipulates that
“whenever appropriate, governmental –
Hon. Members having been making a lot of noise.
THE CHAIRPERSON (HON. MARUMAHOKO): Order, Hon.
Members. Order please. There are some senior Members here who are making noise. Very soon I may ask one of you to go out. You may proceed Hon. Ziyambi.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Chair. Section 264 of the
Constitution states that, “whenever appropriate, governmental powers and responsibilities must be devolved to provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities which are competent to carry out those responsibilities efficiently and effectively.” It is prudent to note that the local authorities are competent to levy rates without interference by the Minister. The interference by the Minister defeats the whole purpose of devolution of powers and Section 5 of the Constitution, which establishes three tiers of Government namely; national Government, provincial and local authorities. It also affects effectiveness of local authorities.
The Committee is of the opinion that the role of the Minister must be limited to facilitating co-ordination between Central Government and local authorities on policy issues, and should be a vehicle which facilitates the publishing or gazetting of such budgets. The Act of Parliament envisaged in Section 265 (3) of the Constitution must further provide appropriate mechanisms and procedures to facilitate coordination between Central Government, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities.
On Clause 8;
Mr. Chair, Clause 8 seeks to repeal Section 14 of the Principal Act, which provides for the publication of intention to apply for a shop licence and the lodging of objections to such an application.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members. This is my last warning. It may be you – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Who?] - Hon.
Sibanda, may you withdraw that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Withdrawn.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members. You may resume
your debate.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Chair. Clause 8 seeks to repeal Section 14 of the Principal Act, which provides for the publication of intention to apply for a shop licence and the lodging of objections to such an application. The publication is done in a local newspaper circulating in the area –
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Labode, I think sarcastically I said there are some senior Members making noise and it was one of you.
May we please maintain silence in this Chamber.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. The publication is
done in a local newspaper circulating in the area and there are requirements that have to be met, including a waiting period of 56 days in total before the application is considered in order to allow the authority to receive objections, if any from any third party. The Bill is seeking to do away with this prolonged cumbersome procedure by repealing the requirement, and removing the lodging of objections. It is prudent to note that the purpose of the Shop Licences Amendment Bill is to create an environment of ease of doing business so as to ensure that local businesses are also globally competent. It should be noted that though this mandate is essential for the economic growth, it has to be achieved through a means which align with the supreme law of the land, which is the Constitution.
The publication of applications and lodging of objections ensures that interested parties are well informed about the applications that have been made and would enable such persons to raise their concerns. This is in line with Section 68 (1) of the Constitution, which guarantees the right to administrative justice. Section 68 (1) of the Constitution provides that, “every person has a right to administrative conduct that is lawful, prompt, efficient, reasonable, proportionate, impartial and both substantively and procedurally fair.” The repealing of Section 14 of the Principal Act in Clause 8 is inconsistent with Section 68 (1) of the Constitution as it limits a procedurally fairness process and also offends Section 3 (2) of the Administration of Justice Act.
Mr. Chairman, the decision of a local authority to issue a shop licence or deny the applicant the licence is an administrative conduct envisaged in Section 68 of the Constitution that affects the applicant and the citizen’s resident under the edification of the local authority. The administrative conduct must be both substantively and procedurally fair.
The current Section 14 of the Principal Act which the Bill seeks to
repeal in Clause 8 complies with the requirements for fulfilling and promoting the right to administrative justice in Section 68 of the Constitution. The principle procedural fairness has been clearly articulated by the courts in the case of CLEOPHAS PARIDZIRA V MINISTRY OF LANDS AND ANOR HH 376/15, where Justice Zhou
stated that: “Procedural fairness entails that the opportunity to make representations be afforded to a person adversely affected by administrative conduct ….. (Section 3 (2) (a) and (b) of the
Administrative Justice Act (requires) an administrative authority making decision which is adverse to the right, interest and legitimate expectation of a person to give adequate notice of the nature and purpose of the proposed action and a reasonable opportunity to the affected person to make adequate representations …”
The courts through several decided cases have also exhibited a liberal attitude in interpreting the provisions regarding the right to procedural fairness. In the recent case of AG V MUDISI AND ORS S48-15 the court held that “one of the fundamental precepts of natural justice encapsulated in the maxim audi alteram partem is the right of every person to be heard or afforded an opportunity to make representations before any decision is taken that might impinge upon his or her rights, interests or legitimate expectations. This precept of the common law forms part of the larger duty imposed upon every administrative authority to act legally, rationally and procedurally and is now codified in Section 3 (1)(a) of the Administrative Justice Act
[Chapter 10:28] as the duty to “act lawfully, reasonably and in a fair manner”. The obligation to act in a fair manner is further expanded in Section 3 (2) to require the giving of “adequate notice of the nature and purpose of the proposed action” and “a reasonable opportunity to make adequate representations” as well as “adequate notice of any right of review or appeal where applicable”.
It is imperative to note that to satisfy the requirement of acting in a manner that is substantively and procedurally, the authorities must give the concerned parties adequate notice and reasonable opportunity to make adequate representations or objections. Thus Section 68 of the Constitution will be grossly violated by repealing 14 of the Principal Act and will not afford the concerned parties the legal avenue to air out their disaffection and objections concerning the issuing of the shop licence in question.
The right can only be limited after weighing all the factors listed in Section 86 of the Constitution which provides that the fundamental rights and freedoms are not absolute in the sense that they have to be exercised with due regard to the rights and freedoms of others. These rights may be limited only in terms of law of general applications, to the extent that the particular limitation is fair, reasonable, necessary and justifiable in a democratic society based on openness, justice, human dignity, equality and freedom, taking into account all factors. The provisions of Section 86 must be interpreted generously in favour of the rights rather than in favour of their restriction. Thus nature of the right provided in Section 68 of the Constitution cannot be limited for the purposes of ease of doing business. However, the prolonged and cumbersome processes in legislation can be eliminated in a manner that does not violate the constitutionally entrenched rights. The process can be shortened so as to promote easy of doing business, instead of completely doing away with it.
In conclusion, as stated in the preamble of the Constitution, the spirit entrenched is to ensure that there are founded values of fairness and justice to all. There is need to maintain the progressive steps in protecting the fundamental rights and freedoms. The amendment of Section 13 of the Principal Act would also strip the local authorities of their constitutional powers and mandate. Repealing Section 14 of the Principal Act would be undermining the administrative justice system and will be in contravention of the Constitution, hence Section 2 would apply, invalidating the inconsistency. It is the collective wisdom of the Committee that the two provisions, Clauses 7 and 8 of the Bill, if enacted, would contravene the provisions of the Constitution.
Due to the aforesaid, the Committee resolved on a majority of 4:0 to issue an adverse report on the Bill. I thank you.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 27th September 2017.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF AN ADVERSE REPORT ON
STATUTORY INSTRUMENT NO. 74 OF 2017 POLICE
(ASSOCIATION) REGULATIONS, 2017
Sixth Order read: Committee Stage: Consideration of an Adverse
Report on Statutory Instrument No. 74 of 2017 Police (Association)
Regulations 2017
House in Committee.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. It is my honour and
pleasure to present the report of the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC). In pursuit of its Constitutional mandate as provided for in Section 152 of the Constitution, the Parliamentary Legal Committee
(hereinafter referred to as “the Committee”) met on the 18th July, 2017.
On its agenda was the analysis of Statutory Instrument 74 of 2017,
Police (Association) Regulations, 2017, gazetted on the 9th of June 2017.
After deliberations, the Committee unanimously resolved that an Adverse Report be issued in respect of the Statutory Instrument, due to the following considerations:-
- Section 3: Purpose and functions of the Zimbabwe Republic
Police Association.
The purpose of setting up the Association and its functions thereof are provided for in Section 72 (2) (m) of the Police Act as read with Section 3 (2) of the Regulations as regulating all matters affecting the welfare and efficiency of members. The Constitution, in Section 222, establishes a Police Service Commission whose functions are articulated in Section 223. One of the functions of the Commission is to ensure the general well being and good administration of the Police Service and its maintenance in a high state of efficiency”. This function refers to matters affecting the welfare and efficiency of the members of the Police force which are being regulated for under these Regulations. It is the constitutional mandate of the Commission to look into the issues of the welfare and efficiency of members not the Commissioner-General of
Police as provided for in the Regulations. As a result, the Regulations
are parallel with the functions of the Commission and seek to usurp the powers of the Commission thereby violating Section 222 and 223 of the Constitution.
In addition, the Commission may make Regulations for any of the purposes in Section 223, and in this case the Regulations makes no reference or mention of the Police Service Commission. In contrast the Regulations in Section 3 (2) states that all issues shall be brought to the notice of the Commissioner-General of Police. There is no mention of referral of the matters upon receipt to the Police Service Commission.
- Section 3 (3) Affiliation and Membership
The affiliation of an Association may be voluntary and by choice of an individual member. Section 3 (3) of the Statutory Instrument provides that the association shall consist of members of the Police Service. The wording of the provision is not clear whether membership is voluntary or compulsory and automatic by virtue of one being a duly attested member of the Zimbabwe Republic Police. If the latter is true, the provision is in contravention of the right; that is the freedom of assembly and association guaranteed in Section 58 of the Constitution.
Section 58 provides that;
- Every person has the right to freedom of assembly and association, and the right not to assemble or associate with others.
- No person may be compelled to belong to an association or to attend a meeting or gathering. The net result Mr. Chairman is that the regulations, as formulated make it compulsory and actually violate those rights which I have outlined.
Members of the Police Service must be given a choice to join the
Association or not. There is no mention in the enabling Act that the
Association is an extension of the constitutional mandate of the Police Service as provided in Section 219 of the Constitution. It is also not clear if the public is welcome to join the Association – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE CHAIRPERSON (HON. MARUMAHOKO): Order Hon.
Members, shall I continue to say order Hon. Members? – [AN HON.
MEMEBR: Yes.]- Who is saying yes. We are here for serious business Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: Members of the Police Force must be given a
choice to join the Association or not. There is no mention in the enabling Act that the Association is an extension of the constitutional mandate of the police service as provided in Section 219 of the Constitution. It is also not clear if the public is welcome to join the Association or it is only confined to the Police Service.
- Section 6: Powers of the Commissioner-General of Police.
The powers given to the Commissioner-General of the Police in terms of Section 6 of the regulations are excessive and encroach on the members’ right to freedom of association the members’ right to freedom of association as members may want to choose their leaders amongst themselves who chair and spearhead the work of the association but are not afforded this opportunity since the Commissioner General appoints the individuals mentioned above.
In addition, his powers as earlier mentioned contravene Section
223 of the Constitution as he is taking the powers and functions of the Commission, thereby usurping the powers of the Police Service Commission.
The enactment of the regulations by the Minister violates Section
223 (2) of the Constitution in that the Constitution empowers the Police
Service Commission to make regulations with the approval of the Minister for any of the purposes in Section 223 of which the issue of welfare is part of the matters mentioned. In terms of Section 117 (2) (c) as read with 134 of the Constitution, Parliament confers subordinate legislative powers upon a body or authority within the scope laid out in the enabling Act. These regulations should have been cited as having been made by the Police Service Commission with the approval of the Minister. There is no mention or reference to the Commission in the regulations at all, thus they are in contravention of Section 223 (2)
Hon. Chairman, it is therefore the collective wisdom of the Committee that the Statutory Instrument contains provisions that contravene the provisions of the Constitution and accordingly, the
Committee unanimously resolved to issue an adverse report on the Statutory Instrument. I therefore lay the report before the Committee of the whole House Hon. Chairman. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chairman. I just want to support what our Acting Chair for the day said regarding these regulations. What is disturbing Hon. Chairman is that every police officer will be compelled to join this association and when they have joined, the fees that they have to pay are determined by the
Commissioner General. Clearly, if you look at the Constitution on the right to association and what this Statutory Instrument is trying to achieve, there is no freedom whatsoever. They are given a chairperson, they are told what to do. All they have to do is to provide their hard earned money. I do not believe our police officers are earning a lot of money, some of them may actually be grumbling and do not have any way out. I think in terms of the Constitution and the way the association’s operation is being proposed, it is grossly unconstitutional.
I thank you.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Hon. Chairman. My
contribution is that our Constitution is very clear because everyone has the freedom of association from the bottom of their hearts. Focusing on this Statutory Instrument, I do not support the fact that the
Commissioner becomes the owner, chair and supervisor in everything. Looking at issues like Kuyedza Club, it is an issue that I feel should never be associated with police officers. This is because police officers are crying foul over this issue, they are forced to buy a cloth printed the words ‘Kuyedza Club’ which if you visit the fabric shops, costs US$7 but when the words ‘Kuyedza Club’ are imprinted upon it, it will be sold at fifty something dollars. It is another way of gross extortion.
In addition, every police officer is given raffle tickets to be sold and it is mandatory that the raffle tickets within the booklet should be sold out. If police officers fail to sell off the tickets, they are supposed to use their own money to buy off the tickets. These are some of the raffle tickets (showing off some raffle tickets). Police officers persuade us to buy these raffle tickets pleading with us that if we do not buy them, it may lead to their dismissal from work. Therefore, this should be stopped. We do not even know whether the cars to the raffle tickets are ever won or if they are won, are they going to be driven away? It has been a long time since I started buying these raffle tickets but I have never been told that I have lost – [Laughter.] – I have never been called or even heard of the winner, I have not heard of him/her.
I stand here to bail out police officers from this captivity of the Kuyedza Club. This should be banned. If they are willing to pursue it, every officer who is interested should do it in the privacy of their homes and not at police camps. There should be an urgent plan to free these police officers in Zimbabwe from having their money extorted throughout the country. This programme should be stopped and anyone who thinks otherwise should establish a trust fund which has nothing to do with police officers. With the little time you gave me, I would like to thank you Hon. Chair. I also want to say to police officers, we have tried to stand for your cause so that you are freed from this captivity. I thank you.
*HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Hon. Chairman. I would want
to add my voice regarding this Statutory Instrument pertaining to the welfare of the police. I do not see this association bringing joy to police officers. The police officers are living in Government houses in places like Tomlison Depot and the state is deplorable. The Committee on Local Government was urging people to ensure that they complete the construction of those houses. Rose Camp in Bulawayo, the residence is pathetic; it is not fit for human accommodation. The welfare of the police should not be dealt with by an association.
The Government should be looking at the welfare of police officers. The police officers are earning very little and from that meager earnings which is about US$400, they are also ordered to pay everyday to ensure that the money is given to other people who do not use the money properly. This has made the Police Commissioner General not to do his core duties of arresting thieves and reducing the crime rate. The welfare of the police should be taken care of by the Government through the Ministry of Home Affairs and not by the Commissioner General. I am in agreement with the adverse report that has been given by the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
We are not in agreement with this Statutory Instrument. What then happens is that once police officers are forced to join this association, they will be forced to do illegal things and violating people’s rights. This is because they will be threatened in one way or the other and if the police officers are under the welfare of the Government and not an individual, they will discharge their duties in a non partisan way. I thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I would also want
to add my voice to what has been said. I believe that it is a noble idea that there should be an association. However, it is the modalities that need to be looked at. They should choose their own chairpersons freely and voluntarily. The chairperson should not be handpicked. When they sell the raffle tickets, it is a good thing for them to develop themselves. Once an association is formed, it is set up to ensure that it achieves certain objectives and it should be in compliance with the Constitution.
They should have office bearers who are freely elected. Membership should not be compulsory, they should freely and voluntarily join the organisations. You should not be forced to do things that are contrary to what you believe in. I believe they are doing a good thing. It should go ahead and that is my view. It should have better and more meaningful clauses. I thank you.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: I would want to add my voice and say
let us support the adverse report because what is contained in this report is likened to a teacher who gives a rule in a classroom. The children would be duty bound to follow what the teacher has said because he is the one who deals with them or the abuse of the school children will come from the person who is in control. The Commissioner General should have a hands-off approach in terms of the association. This association should be formed by the Commission and should report to the police. Mostly, if you meet the police officers, they will say that they are forced into doing things through the command structure but once it gets to their pockets, and if the Police General is now dealing with the welfare of the police who will audit their books, if they have not freely joined or voluntarily…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members and
Hon. Sibanda, he is your Vice President but you are busy making noise.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: This association should just be the
same as any other association such as burial societies putting up their monies together so that they can buy a property or home, which is what women normally do. As the august House, we should not allow a single person to control the people. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Over and above this association that needs to be formed, I ask Mr. Chair that it be coupled with other issues that are bedeviling Government and quasi-Government departments, in particular where there is a Government deficit Mr. Speaker, which void needs to be plugged by other initiatives. Why do I speak like this? Mr. Speaker, your Committee on Transport and Infrastructure Development which I Chair, has got a void in terms of a budget deficit in the police force which has seen the Minister of Finance giving assent to usage of 100% of spot fines. This has given an insistent appetite to the police force to make sure that there are targets that mitigate and plug the budget deficit.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am saying whatever budget deficit there is in the police force …
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order! You are addressing the
Hon. Chairperson, not Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Chairman of Committees, not Mr.
Speaker Sir but Mr. Speaker Sir, I speak like that because I am used to you seated there but I will address you accordingly.
Mr. Chair, I am quite aware that there are a lot of Government departments which have been allowed to keep monies that they are collecting irrespective that they are going to the central …
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Chair. I am trying to follow the debate of the Hon. Member and when I look at the report which I have presented on behalf of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, what it is dealing with Mr. Chairman, is the issue of the voluntary or non-voluntary nature of the proposed association. I am trying to understand the point which is being put across by the Hon. Member. It appears to me that the debate is not on point and that is the point of order that he is not responding to the contents of the report.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, may you stick
to the issues that are raised in the report.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Chair, I ask that there be patience. The slow approach of a leopard does not signify its weakness. Let me come exactly to where you want me to come. Kukwira gomo hupoterera Mr. Chair. If he has a direct contact or direct bearing to a certain point, let him wait and find that point that he is wanting me to get to easily…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, to the point
please.
HON. NDUNA: Yes, Mr. Chair. I am just trying to equate what is in that report to what is obtaining in other Government and quasiGovernment departments. I have been in the force for about 10 years and there used to be an association that was called ZDFBF, which was Zimbabwe Defence Forces Benefit Fund. The fund was attached to a housing association where members voluntarily contributed towards a housing scheme. Why do I speak like that? I am saying they should not be prohibited as long as it is voluntary so that they can mitigate on a Government budget deficit. If we disallow them to be embedded in an association which can benefit them individually as policemen whilst they are subsisting in the police force during which time their tenure or contract is subsisting, we are shooting them in the foot. It should be voluntary and they should be allowed to join whichever association they so wish.
So, if that clause does not say ‘voluntary’, that clause should be in there. However Mr. Chairman Sir, I spoke about the appetite that is going to give the police force to have a plethora of road blocks on the highway. Because of that association, they have. …
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: The owner of a Ford Ranger, ADL 8880 is blocking others. Can the owner of that vehicle go and remove it please.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Chair, as we finance the budget deficit, I just want to maybe make sure that the police force and other Government departments either get land, till it, have production and there be Command Agriculture on the land, and also get mines Mr. Chair; aware that we are endowed as a nation with ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth so that we can get them off the road and on to the mines that they can be more productive …
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order Mr. Chairman. I think the
Hon. Member clarified the issue that we were dealing with the issue as a Committee. We were looking at the formation of an association which has to look into the welfare of police officers. Our argument was, should it be an association where you do not join voluntarily or you join voluntarily. All the other issues are not part of the discussion. The issue that we presented that we require members to debate is the issue of whether this association is really necessary, mindful also that the function that this association is supposed to do; that of the welfare of members is a function that has been given to the Police Service Commission by the new Constitution. So, do we need to create an association to look into issues that deal with the welfare of police officers when this has been dealt with by the Constitution and the Police Service Commission has been mandated to look into the issue of welfare of the police officers. So, I think our debate Hon. Chair, should be confined to those areas. Do we need to have regulations passed by this House that infringe on freedom of association? Do we need regulations that have to be passed that take away the function of the Police Service
Commission in so far as the welfare of the police officers is concerned?
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, order Hon. Sibanda. Hon. Nduna,
there is no Command Agriculture whatsoever in this debate. So stick to the debate and relevant issues.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order. My point of order
Mr. Speaker – I was asking my Chairperson of the Committee on Defence and Home Affairs. Maybe I may not know but once a Statutory Instrument comes from PLC, can it be debated in this august House when the relevant Portfolio Committee dealt with the welfare of the police officers a few days ago. We are unaware of the Statutory Instrument and as a Committee we have not dealt with it. Maybe it is out of ignorance. Can this be debated? We are seeking clarity on whether the Statutory Instrument can be accepted as it is or not? If that was the point, then if anyone comes with their association and brings it before this august House we pass it. I just wanted to find out what the position is. Is that permissible to be brought before this august House before the Committee deals with it? I thank you.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Chinotimba, you are out of order.
There will be a debate on the police service delivery and that is when you put all your issues. It does not apply to this issue.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Nduna, go to the point or relevant matters and not Command Agriculture and others.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Chairman, you make it very
difficult for me to respond to issues that have been raised against my way of debate.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Speak to the Chair, you do not have to
respond to those people who have raised issues. You debate relevant issues.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Chair, I believe in all honesty that my point has been ventilated in so far as the issue of freedom of association is concerned. I think as the Hon. Chair of the PLC stood up, he thought I was not barking at the right tree.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Nduna, please do not respond to
what was raised by Hon. Members. You debate the issues that you stood up to debate.
HON. NDUNA: As I conclude, all associations including those that have not come are okay because there has been due diligence by the Commissioner, in my view, before he brought this association. Let us allow as long as there is freedom of association Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, the three Hon. Members to my
right, if you have issues to discuss there is a Lobby behind you. Hon. Ziyambi, I am talking to you, the three of you. If you have a very important issue to discuss please just move out to the Lobby.
HON. NDUNA: We do not know how this association originated
but let us just make sure that we allow freedom of association because to try and debate on the how, whys and where it originated will take us the whole day and come in the next day. The issue I want vociferously and effectively put to bear is to let there be freedom of association. Beyond that, let us make sure that this association is allowed to continue.
HON. MLISWA: I think Hon. Chair, as the House, we must ensure that we abide by the Constitution of this country where people have a right to freedom of association. You have the Commissioner General whose task is quite clear in terms of how far he must go and I think in a way these officers or members are already under a command through the role that he plays as Commissioner General. They cannot equally be under command through an association again, which is voluntary at the end of the day. There is the Police Service Commission which is responsible for the welfare of the police officers through the various channels that they have. As you know, our ZRP is well structured from the Officer in Charge to the Officer Commanding
District to the Officer Commanding of the Province as well as to the Commissioner General himself. Those are the various stages that any grievances to do with the welfare can come through.
What I see is a situation where it is in direct conflict of people’s rights and the Commissioner General cannot usurp powers of the Police Service Commission. I see it as him trying to usurp the powers of the Police Service Commission which must be able to do its job from a constitutional point of view with the mandate that they have. It is in no question - because what also comes clear is that they do not have elections, but they are appointed by the Commissioner General. So a process where there are no elections becomes dictatorial, and as such how do people express themselves? So, to me it is important that we run away from a culture of dictators at every level where the Commissioner General wants to also ensure that he has a parallel structure. I think it is important that he confines himself to the Constitution as regards to how it must function at the end of the day. I think what is important is – especially in view of what is happening in the Zimbabwe police force right now where even those women groups – when you hear these police officers talking to you, they are forced to do certain things that they do not want to do. So, as Parliament, we cannot rubber stamp such things because we already have information.
I am a Member of Parliament in a constituency which has police officers. Already they are really under siege and are forced to do things that they are not supposed to do for fear of being victimized or fired. So, why should this House allow such a thing to happen when we are supposed to be protecting the rights of the people? For me, it is important that the Constitution is clear, where it defines the functions of the Commissioner General and the Police Service Commission. Why would he then want to create something which is really unconstitutional at the end of the day? We cannot be a House that will rubber stamp unconstitutional associations coming through. Okay, in the event that
Parliament says yes to it, how do we know that the next Commissioner General will not – because these are offices that people change. So, yes, it could have very good intentions and we do not have any problems with Commissioner General Chihuri, but what if somebody comes in one day who is not like him, what will then happen? So, we must be very clear in coming up with things which are consistent at the end of the day so that they do not infringe on people’s lives. So, it is my take that in terms of whether the police is suffering or not, it is the role of the Minister of Finance to also contribute to the police. Fiscus is there to do a lot of things and because the economy is in a mess, we are now creating many other things. So the critical issue is to have discipline on the fiscus and every department. Every Government Department would be given its money, as they want and as so forth. The aspect of money too, has a lot to do with what is going on, but let us stick to the Constitution and allow the Treasury to also play its role in looking after them. All these committees that we have mean nothing. The Police
Service Commission is paid, there is so much that it is doing. At the end of the day, if somebody is doing their job, what is it that they are doing? Surely, I think it only makes sense that this report and this association does not deserve to be even debated in this Parliament where we represent people. It must find itself somewhere else, not in this Parliament. I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you. I just want to assist Hon. Members in this august House on what has been the practice and perhaps people will pick it up from there. I want to talk from experience. My understanding has been that the Police Association comprises of three branches, branch C, branch B and branch A. Branch
A would be for the Assistant Commissioners, Senior Assistant
Commissioners, Commissioners and the Commissioner General himself.
Branch B would be middle management where we are talking about
Superintendents and Chief Superintendent and branch C would be the Constable and the Sergeant, Assistant Inspector and the Inspector, the lowest rank.
The practice has been that these branches, we have a representative from each wing to represent the issues, particularly welfare issues of members of the organisation. At the end of the day, those issues discussed at branch C, branch B and branch A would be taken to the
Police Service Commission. We also appreciate that the Police Service Commission would consist of other members who are not within the police force, who might have been retired from the police force or have experienced what goes on in the security sector. The bone of contention as I hear it from this august House is that, when the Association is there, it is in existence - because those people are elected. There is some election exercise that takes place in each particular branch, branch A, B and C. That has been the practice and is still the practice – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order. I have given you a chance to debate and I have gave him the chance to debate.
HON. MANDIPAKA: I am speaking from experience. Members in A branch, B branch and C branch are elected by other police officers from various police stations. Thereafter, they go and sit.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order. What is your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: The point of order is that with due respect, Hon. Mandipaka was in the police force and is no longer in the police force. I think it is important. If he is talking about the experience, he is talking about the past experience, not the experience of the now. We are talking about the current experience – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order. Let us hear words of wisdom from Hon. Mandipaka.
HON. MANDIPAKA: If we are an educated Parliament, we must accept skills that come in this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, we must accept skills. That is why we have lawyers like him. That is why we have economists like him. I am talking from experience, I have been in the force.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Would you proceed Honourable.
HON. MANDIPAKA: All I am saying is that the Commissioner General does not appoint these members; they are elected in their various branches. The bone of contention as I understand it is that, where I agree ...
HON. GONESE: On a point of order. I think it is important Mr.
Chairman for Members to acquaint themselves with the regulations. What I was going to suggest Mr. Chairman is that perhaps now, we should adjourn the debate, because most of the Members have not acquainted themselves with the provisions of the regulations we are talking about. These are regulations that were gazetted in terms of a Statutory Instrument. I think it is important for Members, firstly to read the Statutory Instrument in question so that they can have an appreciation of the legal point that has been articulated in the report of the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
Whilst I wanted to allow some debate to flow, I am noticing that a lot of the debate is going off somewhat at a tangent - simply because Members have just got the report in front of them but they have not gone through the regulations. For instance, what Hon. Mandipaka is saying is clearly the point that is being made in the report that there is lack of clarity, that the Commissioner General seems to have been given the powers to appoint members of the committee. This is where the bone of contention is. The issue about the freedom of association is what is at stake. It is not about whether there should be an association or not, but whether members of the police service should be made compulsorily to become members. That is the essence of our report.
I want to believe that it would be more useful for us as an august House to have that appreciation so that we have got meaningful debate as opposed to a situation where we are talking of general matters which have nothing to do with the essence of the report.
I see a lot of Members in their debates, are talking about whether there should be an association or otherwise, which is not what our report is talking about. What our report is talking about is that, in terms of the Constitution, there is freedom of association, there is freedom of assembly and therefore whatever association is set up in terms of whatever regulations, should have that clarity that members are not compelled to become members of that association by virtue of being police officers. That is the point and that is the reason why I believe at this point in time Mr. Chairman, it may not be the best for us to continue with this debate when some Members are not clear, or rather are not familiar with the actual regulations we are talking about.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Hon. Gonese. I had earlier on made an announcement of vehicle Ford Ranger, red, that is blocking other people, ADL 8880. Can the owner please move out and remove that vehicle, it is blocking others. Hon. Mandipaka, you may continue with your debate.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I am exactly coming to what is contained in the report that has been presented by the Parliamentary Legal Committee. What I intended to do was to give flesh and light so that I come to where the bone of contention is. I am quite clear about the where the bone of contention is. The bone of contention is, we have given so much power to the Commissioner General to appoint the Chair of that association. That is where the argument is. If I get this report clearly – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – It is ....
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order. Hon. Mandipaka address the Chair. Order Hon. Ndebele. I may ask you to go back where you were before.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My view Mr. Chairman is that I agree with what is contained in the Constitution that we must protect, freedom of association, fair and fine. All I am saying is that members are not forced into this association. The bone of contention is whether the
Commissioner should be the one who should nominate or appoint a Chair. In my view, I think it is in the best interest of the association itself to come up with its leader. If we are to observe the contents in the Constitution that allows for freedom of association. That is where I was trying to drive at. I thank you.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman for the
opportunity...
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Muderedzwa would be the last to debate on this motion. The Minister would want to make a Ministerial Statement. You may proceed Hon.
Muderedzwa.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you for the opportunity to make
a contribution on this Statutory Instrument. First and foremost, I totally agree with Hon. Gonese that Hon. Members are not conversant with the contents of the Statutory Instrument. Out of that, we are likely to debate things outside the scope of the Statutory Instrument but I would like to make a contribution along this line.
The purpose of an association in an organisation such as the Zimbabwe Republic Police is for the purposes of constructing social facilities for example a canteen or police mess, club for golf or football.
If members of the Republic Police are not influenced to join, there is no way you can exclude that member to go to the canteen once it is constructed from the proceeds of the contribution that would be made by members. These are the challenges because these are collective properties of members of the Zimbabwe Republic Police. So, there is a challenge, I know there is a contradiction that is coming from the
Constitution to suggest that there should be freedom of association.
An Hon. Member having passed between the Chair and the speaker.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order - [HON. NDEBELE:
Constitution haiite contradiction, it is the supreme law of the country.]- I am not contesting the Constitution, Mr. Chairman.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: I am saying the purpose of this
association is to ensure that at least the welfare of members of the Zimbabwe Republic Police improves by creating social amenities or facilities. It is impossible then if a member of the ZRP does not choose to be one, to exclude that person to go to the canteen, to the shop and to any of these places.
What is important is for us to ensure that the Commissioner General of Police is not given any leeway in terms of control of this association. I totally agree with Hon. Members who are proposing that the Police Service Commission should be the overseer of the welfare activities of the organisation. However, to say that it should be by choice to be a member, it would be a difficult of exclusion of those who are not members, who can then go to the canteen and buy or go to the sports facilities and enjoy them. I think that is where we need to scrutinise and see how we can push the agenda forward. I thank you.
HON. GONESE. Thank you very much Mr. Chairperson. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all Hon. Members who contributed. However, before we adjourn the debate, I just thought that it would be important to remind Hon. Members of the role of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. I noticed through some of the contributions and the point of order raised by Hon. Chinotimba, that perhaps there is that lack of appreciation of what the role of the PLC is.
So, I just thought it is important to remind Hon. Members of the functions of the PLC as set out in terms of 152 of our Constitution. I will not go into details suffice to say that the PLC is mandated to examine every Statutory Instrument among other things which is published in the Gazette and to present a report to Parliament on whether it considers any provision of that Statutory Instrument to be in contravention of the Constitution if enacted.
So, perhaps when we resume the debate, the Executive will have an opportunity to respond to the report of the Committee and other members who may want to contribute will do so from a more informed position after acquainting themselves with the actual Statutory Instrument in question. On this note, Mr. Chairman, I therefore move that you report progress and seek leave to seat again. I thank you.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 27th September, 2017.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
RAINWATER HARVESTING, PROTECTION AND
PRESERVATION OF OUR ENVIRONMENT
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): Thank you Madam Speaker.
Firstly, allow me to take this opportunity to share with you the hydrological forecast for the 2017/18 rainfall season. Our forecast is that we are expecting mostly normal to above normal rains culminating in high river flows and high in flows into our dams as well as high recharge to groundwater aquifers. The country is expected to generate between 18 to 24 billion cubic metres of water yet our nation at dam storage capacity is standing at 14 billion cubic metres against a situation where most of the dams are at nearly 70% full, at a time when they should be at 50% full as we approach the new season.
Madam Speaker, this implies that due to the excessive rains experienced during the 2016/17 rain season, we are standing at above normal water storage levels and most of the 2017 to 18 runoff water will end up flowing to the oceans. The chances of flooding like we encountered in the 2016/17 season are very high and we need to strengthen our early warning systems in areas like Tsholotsho, Malipati,
Gokwe, Muzarabani, Middle Sabi and Chikwalakwala – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members,
your voices are competing with the Minister’s Ministerial statement. Can you please lower your voices?
HON. MUCHINGURI: Madam Speaker, bearing in mind this
potential disastrous situation we are faced with, my Ministry has seen the need to vigorously pursue an ambitious command water harvesting programme. This programme is deliberated aimed at improving the lives of people at grassroots level across the country through the construction of small weirs on our rivers in order to harness the water which will be used during the dry season. The programme also entails the repair of small community dams, de-siltation of dams and weirs, drilling of boreholes, putting up household roof tops and rock top rain water harvesting equipment.
This programme Madam Speaker, is being spearheaded by
ZINWA, which is the Government’s water resource management lead agency. ZINWA is providing technical assistance such as designs and supervision during the construction period while communities, under the guidance of their local leadership structures will mobilise resources such as cement, rocks, labour and other materials. The local leadership structures will also be critical in the identification of areas in their respective wards, where the weirs will be built. The target is having a weir in every ward.
I am happy to announce to this august House Madam Speaker that my Ministry has secured funding to the tune of $2 million to support this programme, and has an allocation of $3 million to support the drilling of boreholes across the country. Madam Speaker, you may recall that at the height of the drought that we experienced last year, we requested
Hon. Members to submit their lists of possible areas where we can sink boreholes. I want to assure Hon. Members that it is that list that we will use as we implement this programme – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear,
hear.] –
I shall be embarking on a countrywide tour meeting provincial stakeholders including Members of Parliament for the effective coordination and mobilization of this programme, coupled with discussing environmental challenges bedeviling our beautiful country. Next week on Friday, 29th September, 2017, I shall be leading my Ministry team to Mtshabezi Dam in Matabeleland South Province, where we will be meeting stakeholders and commissioning the
Mtshabezi offtakes water supply projects. From there, on Wednesday, 4th October, 2017 we will proceed to Matabeleland North Province, then to Midlands Province on Thursday, 5th October, 2017. On Friday, 6th
October, 2017, we will end that week with a similar exercise in Masvingo Province.
Madam Speaker, the purpose of these stakeholder meetings is to raise public awareness on pertinent environmental issues and the efforts my Ministry is imploring in addressing the environmental challenges. We also want to educate stakeholders on our mandate as a Ministry and mobilize stakeholders to partner with us in rolling out our programmes. It is from the above background Madam Speaker that I cordially invite
Hon. Members to join me and participate in my Ministry’s stakeholders
meetings and water harvesting programmes.
Turning to the environmental challenges bedeviling our country Madam Speaker, Section 73 of our Constitution enshrines environmental rights to our citizens and advocates us to ensure that we do not impact on future generation’s access to a clean, healthy and safe environment. Government went on to provide for several pieces of legislation that complement this constitutional provision such as the Environmental
Management Act, the Forestry Act and the Parks and Wildlife Management Act. However, despite our efforts to enforce the provisions of these Acts and also provide an enabling environment for different sectors to address these provisions, we have seen an increase in environmental problems over the years.
Madam Speaker, first and foremost is the issue of veld fires that are a major environmental challenge. These veld fires destroy the environment, life and property and over the years, an average of one million hectares are destroyed annually. In 2016 alone, 1 197 335 hectares of land were burnt. Furthermore, a total of 102 people lost their lives due to veld fires from 2010 to date. The major cause of these veld fires is the negative attitude and lack of behaviour change of our people.
Fires lit for land clearance are left unattended and they become wild. Fires have gone on to destroy our environment, disrupting normal ecosystem functions. It is also sad to note that as a country, we lack the adequate fire fighting resources such as aerial fire fighters in the form of helicopters, as well as, the simple hand held tools such as fire beaters.
I therefore appeal to this august House to assist us with engaging the relevant authorities and line Ministries that can assist us with resource mobilisation and awareness raising. Over the years, our fire prediction tools have indicated high rates of veld fires in resettlement and communal lands bringing us to the issue of linkages of land tenure and land use to fire. I am kindly requesting Parliament to engage the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing and the Ministry of Lands and Rural Resettlement in addressing the issue of land titles.
In addressing the challenge of veld fires as a Ministry, we launched the Command Veld Fire Management Programme as a strategy to prevent veld fires. It is envisaged that the engagement of Parliament and traditional leaders will see a reduction in the occurrence of veld fires as together we can increase awareness on the causes and dangers of fires and how communities can work together to prevent them.
Waste management, Madam Speaker, has also become one of the major environmental challenges that the country is facing. Thousands of tonnes of solid waste are generated daily in the country and estimates show that in the year 2011, urban centres in Zimbabwe generated 1.65 million tonnes of waste. This is exacerbated by the increasing urban population, consumerism, negative attitudes and poor waste management system. Most of this waste ends up as litter and on open illegal dumps and on wetlands; thereby contaminating surface and ground water and posing major health hazards.
The bad practice of open defecation is also generally on the rise and human waste has been found on illegal dumps and bushy areas. As the rains come, this has greatly exposed the general public to disease outbreaks and epidemics recorded in recent years. I kindly implore
Parliament to engage the Ministry of Health and Child Care and Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to ensure that proper sanitation facilities are provided for every citizen and that health hazards are dealt with.
In response to the challenge of litter and waste disposal, my Ministry is currently organizing a waste management conference themed: Zero Tolerance to Litter Everyone’s Responsibility which will be held from 11th to 13th October, 2017. The conference is expected to be officiated by His Excellency, the President.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as a build up to this conference, we are organizing a one day clean up per week, in which all Zimbabweans must participate and we are kindly requesting Parliament to lead as a sector and embrace the clean-up day. After the conference, this will be scaled up to a dedicated one day per month clean-up which His Excellency will officially launch at the conference.
On such a day, all Zimbabweans will be expected to take time to clean up their immediate environment and dispose waste properly. We are taking a cue from sister countries such as Rwanda and Namibia which have sound waste management practices in place. It is my sincere hope that all sectors will embrace this move towards making our country a clean and habitable place.
Mr. Speaker Sir, stream bank cultivation has also not spared our environment causing soil loss, river and dam siltation and gully formation. A total of 1872 rivers are affected by stream bank cultivation in Zimbabwe while a cumulative stretch of 2162km are being affected and the estimated areas affected by gully erosion in the country is 13 390.15ha. The main rivers affected include Inyazure, Nyamaguru,
Mazowe, Mudzi, Nyadire, Tugwi, Gwayi, Murufudzi, Mukumbura and Manyame River. River bed cultivation is common in Mashonaland
Central along Musengezi River, in Muzarabani and Mwenzamutanda
River in Mbire District. Stream bank cultivation also fuels deforestation and propagation of lantana camara as approximately 80% of the gardens will be fenced by either brushwood or lantana camara.
My Ministry has embarked on environmental protection through an afforestation programme to enhance vegetation density and diversity around dams and other water bodies. This is done to ensure that surface run-off into water bodies is reduced in order to curb siltation. The majority of our water bodies are heavily silted and with the expected high inflows, we risk experiencing flooding if necessary measures are not put in place.
My Ministry has also established consolidated community gardens through advocating for people to move away from stream bank cultivation in order to curb stream cultivation and tree cutting. EMA is assisting with the establishment of these gardens through encouraging creation of gardens 30m away from water body’s high flood level.
Last but not least, the environment is being altered remarkably by illegal mining activities particularly gold panning along rivers and in protected areas. The techniques that are used by artisanal miners are inefficient, hence gold mines, especially artisanal gold mines, are a major contributor to land degradation. Some mining entities have been fined for operating without EIAs as they pose a huge threat to the integrity of our environment. Out of the seven major catchments in
Zimbabwe, namely Gwayi, Manyame, Mazowe, Mzingwane, Runde, Sanyati and Save, the impacts of artisanal mining on land degradation are hypothesised to be pronounced in the Mazowe catchment because of its extensive gold deposits.
I would like to implore the Ministry of Mines, through you Mr. Speaker Sir, to assist my Ministry in dealing with culprits who are not only damaging the environment but also causing severe losses of foreign currency through unregulated and illegal mining. Lately, there were reports of illegal gold mining in Chimanimani and I dispatched a team of
Ministry, ZimParks and EMA officials to look into the matter and stringent measures have since been in place to prevent such activities from occurring.
Ladies and gentlemen, please note the soil erosion (gully erosion) veldt fires and illegal mineral extraction are national indicators that give a picture of land degradation and we therefore need to safeguard our environment from them.
Coming to the issues of forestry that are under the jurisdiction of the Forestry Commission, FAO estimated that we are losing 350 000ha of forest land each year due to tobacco curing, wood poaching, land clearance, veldt fires and expansion of settlements. In order to reverse these losses, we launched a Command Agro-forestry programme which seeks to plant 15 million trees, mostly fruit trees nationwide per year.
It is our endevour to increase the hectarage under timber production whilst continuing to uphold the ban on hardwood timber exports enacted in 2002 under Statutory Instrument 112 of 2001 in order to protect our forests. I would like to encourage you all to raise awareness in your constituencies against deforestation and land degradation and to encourage most of our young people to add value to our timber so that we target the export market.
Conservation and preservation practices should be at the helm of all our programmes in our communities. It is with this background that I call upon Parliament to partner with my Ministry to build a green economy, green jobs which protect the future of our children. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 7 and 8 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 9 has been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ABUSE OF CHILDREN UNDER THE GUISE OF SELLING SEX HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the motion
standing in my name that this House:
ALARMED by the number of children who are reported to be abused under the “guise” of selling sex.
CONCERNED that Government’s response has been targeted at those that have exposed this evil practice.
NOW THEREFORE calls upon the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to immediately give a Ministerial Statement on this matter.
AND FURTHER calls upon the Inter-Ministerial Task Force set by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to expeditiously investigate the matter and report be tabled in Parliament by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Mr. Speaker Sir. As I move this motion, let me preface it by thanking first the Hon. Speaker for having prioritised this particular motion. Initially, he had suggested that this motion come in as an urgent motion and then proposed that it is put on the Order Paper and it is given priority. Secondly, let me then thank our Government Chief Whips for allowing me to have priority and to raise this motion.
I raise this motion with the heaviest of hearts. This motion speaks about children who are reported to being abused under the guise of selling sex. Before I get into the merit of this particular motion, let me just say I worry about how we as a nation prioritise certain things. I was at a police station this morning, my sister has been involved in an accident and as I sat in that police station, I heard how police were being deployed to go and organise the queues where people are waiting to get fuel. Immediately I said to myself, why is it that when there is something that affects us as adults, we are very quick to address it and yet when we hear something that is as horrendous as what we have been subjected to in the past two to four weeks, nothing has been done. We have not heard a Ministerial Statement that comes to this House and says we are shocked that this is happening in this particular country.
Let me explain what I am talking about. On the 14th August 2017, I was invited by a group called Katswe Sisterhood. They had invited me to come and hear the stories of children who were engaged in sex. When I went to this meeting myself and Hon Maridadi who is supposed to be seconder of this motion, I had assumed that perhaps I was going to see children who are about 17 or 16 years. I was shocked as I sat in that room. These were not children that were coming from one particular community, they were children coming from different parts of this country. I sat there and looked at babies. I looked at children who are 8 and 9 years describing what it is that it means to be in the streets as they get paid 25c mostly by men who are about 60 or 65 years. I sat in that room and for two hours, I did nothing but cry my eyes out because as you looked at these children, most of them had lost their mothers and fathers. It was clear that the majority of them were sick. So, as we were being told that this is a six year old or an eight year old child, they looked more like four or five year olds because of their stunted growth. We know that this is happening in our communities. There are men that are going and picking these children and most of them hardly have breasts.
I looked at these kids and I said to myself, if a man comes in and says I want to sleep with this person, what are you sleeping with because there is nothing in there that says this is a woman. What was more hurtful is when they described to you how they would get to that point to which they got abused. Most of them were children that were coming from rural communities. They would be invited and somebody would say now that you are an orphan, come and work in my house as a house maid.
So, she walks into this home and the first person who abuses her is the man of that house. She is found being abused by the man of that house and the woman of that house kicks her out and says wakatobhadharwa because you have been sleeping with my husband.
She ends up being in the street. Many of us have been driving in these roads. I want you to look at every young girl who comes by your window and says amai ndokumbirawo ten cents. That is the same child who goes out in the night and is being paid 25 cents by some man who is driving a Mercedes Benz coming from somewhere.
It is not as if we do not know Mr. Speaker. The police in this country know what is happening to these kids every other day. We know the places in which this is happening. When you go to Mabvuku/Tafara for example, those places where there are beer halls, they have now got into a point where they ask these kids to go with contracts to their parents so that the parents can sign and say you as the owner of this particular beer hall can allow this girl to strip dancing. Men from our homesteads go to these places to watch these babies dance and when they are done, they pick these kids and go and sleep with them.
I am not talking just about those that are in my opinion born HIV positive. I am talking about those that have been lucky enough to not be born HIV positive, but who are subjected to every other day to these sexual activities. I am not talking about just sex, I am talking about these kids describing the most horrendous kinds of sex that they are subjected to these men. We sat in there and there were Ministry of Health officials. They were saying to them, what can we do? Can there be condoms that can be offered? This child says, how do I even begin to negotiate for condoms with this kind of a man. He will say he wants to have oral sex, anal and penetrative sex with me.
So, when men sit down in this very sickening thing, they go and find these places to which they can deal with pedophilias. It is not difficult to deal with this particular issue. We just can take a few policemen and I personally today can walk with you and say, let us go in that particular street in Epworth, Mabvuku/Tafara and Gwanda and you will find these people and we will arrest them. We need to just arrest 10 to 15 men and put them in jail for the rest of their lives for every man to know that you do not touch a baby.
Mr. Speaker, if you go internationally, pedophilia is the most horrendous crime. If you are a pedophilia, you cannot exist in a society.
In fact, if you are a pedophilia, you are sexually marked that you cannot get a job in any space where there are children, but we have pedophilias here. The reason why I am upset about this particular motion is that
KATSWE brings this out. What happened to KATSWE? Firstly, Social Welfare swoops on KATSWE not to ask them where these children are and where this is happening. They swoop to KATSWE to say, why are you bringing out things like this. Immediately they are picked up and they are arrested for publishing falsehood.
So, when I heard that they had been arrested, I was rushing to the police station because I wanted to say, please come and arrest me because I am one of those that have been speaking about these children. I know that I am covered by immunity but trust me, even as I go outside there, I am going to be speaking about this. I also want the same police that picked KATSWE to come and pick some of us because it is ridiculous for a nation to want to run around people who are telling you about a crime than to deal with criminals. As we speak right now, KATSWE has become the criminals. KATSWE has now been banned doing work in those communities.
If I had done this motion last week, I had spoken to the Speaker and I had said I was going to bring these kids, not to put them in the Gallery but to put them in a particular room so that every other Member of Parliament who is sitting in this House would go and look at those children. I wanted one of them to come out and say it is okay for us to be sitting in this room while that is happening to the babies that are going out there. I am disappointed that the Minister of Social Welfare is not here because she is a woman and I wanted to look at her in the face and say to her, did you really think that the most important thing to do when you saw these babies that I saw and bowed my eyes out, that the most important thing was to go and pick up KATSWE?
I now understand that they went particularly to Epworth and they picked close to about 45 kids and put them in a safe house. The point is, no one thought it was important to come to this House and explain. I have picked up 45 kids and what does this mean? What about the other 100 children that are out there that we now know are being abused? What we have done by banning and arresting KATSWE, we have driven these young babies under the table. When I said to them, I want you to come and meet Members of Parliament, they said tinotya, tinozosungwa instead of them saying I want to see Members of Parliament because they will be able to help me and find me space to go and stay.
Mr. Speaker, this Constitution speaks to the issues around children’s rights and it calls upon us and gives access to have a responsibility to protect these children. Each one of us who are sitting either has a child or you have a grandchild. If I say to you, this nine year or seven year old child baby that you love to bits and pieces has a man who is dragging them under a tree and forcing them to have sex and pay them 25 cents, would you still go, sleep and go to bed?
So, the question that I am asking to Members of Parliament who are still in this House, is that as we debate this motion, which is why a lot of people came to me and said let us not move it today and I said I cannot take another two weeks of sleeping after what I saw. It is very clear what we need to do. We need to make a decision in this House that says police needs to go to those places where we know children are being abused. The first thing is to arrest the criminals and secondly, to take those children and put them in places of safety, but we need a long term solution to this process. We cannot have a social welfare system that knows we have orphans that are coming from HIV/AIDS that have absolutely no plan about how we deal with those children.
In other areas, we would be having a Call Centre where anyone who knows that there is an orphan can come in and phone and say there is a problem here, but we should be having a system in which these kids can be reintegrated into families because one thing that is good about our African process is that you never get a child that does not have a village and family. The reason why most of these families are unable to look after these children is that sometimes they are so poor that it makes it difficult for them to come and take those children. So, you tell me that in a country like ours, where we have these types of cars that we are driving, we are unable to make a decision to put aside a certain amount of money that will take care of the children in this particular country?
You know how selfish we are as a people, when HIV/AIDS started hitting on us, when people started dying, we immediately came up with an AIDS Fund so that we can go and buy drugs for ourselves because we want to live. Seventy-six percent of the people who are sitting in this House are living with HIV/AIDS and are taking ARVs but we are unable to – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – yes, very true. You are unable to take out a little bit of money and put it aside so that it can be used to take care of these children, it is sad Mr. Speaker. It is sad, I am not saying it to other Members of Parliament only but I speak for myself too, because it is not right that I come and sit here and there is a child who is eight or nine years old and is being raped every day and abused.
You know what? What is sad is that, as I sat in that room with Hon. Maridadi, when he asked each one of them why they were doing it, they said, ‘I have a little sister of mine who is two or three years and we live in a shack. If I do not go and get the 25 cents, and put it together so that I can buy bread tomorrow, she may actually die of hunger.’ We as a people think it is alright that we can spend money travelling and doing the things that we are doing, yet we cannot afford to put aside a little bit money so that these children can be looked after.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker, mine is very simple. As I said, we make a decision because we can do that as Parliament; that we instruct the police to go to those places instead of instructing the police to go and sort out the queues of fuels and a problem that we have created for ourselves. Let us send the police to go and pick these kids who need help, not tomorrow but tonight.
Secondly Mr. Speaker, the Minister needs to come here, she needs to come and give us a Ministerial Statement and explain to us. After she heard about the things that were happening, what have they done around the reports of Katswe. Thirdly, we need to deal with and stop the abuse that is going on around Katswe Sisterhood.
In July, Members of Parliament were taken by Katswe to Hopley House. They went and saw those nine-year olds. I will not forgive the group of people who went to that place because if you have gone there and seen what I saw, the first thing you would have done was to come to this House and say something needed to stop. However, we did not do that, we need to deal with it, and we need to address that issue and Katswe need to be allowed to do the work that they are doing. It is shameful that today Katswe holds letter from provincial administrators, I do not know from what legal perspective, but provincial administrators in this particular country who have said Katswe cannot operate. What is their crime? They exposed children who are being abused. It is shameful and sad that we as a nation, a Government and a people are allowing that to happen. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this opportunity. Let me start my debate by saying that I am a father and a brother. I have four sisters from the same father and mother all older than me. I have two daughters, my first and second born children. I have said, if there is anything that I am prepared to go to jail for, is protection of my daughters. Girls need to be protected. I was going through the Bible, there are more than 44 verses in the Bible, King James Version, which talks about the protection of children. I have got them here and I shall not burden this House by going through them because I know you understand the Bible.
Mr. Speaker, when I was taken by this organisation called Katswe Sisterhood to go and see the children who are being abused, every woman in the house after listening to their testimonies including Hon. Misihairabwi – Mushonga and the former Deputy Minister of Health, Mai Tsungirirai Hungwe, started crying. I also cried, not because of what the children were saying but because of the way the ladies were crying. I tried to console Mai Hungwe and I could not. In the process of trying to console Mai Hungwe, I also started crying and could not be consoled. Two days later, I heard through radio that the ladies from
Katswe were arrested. I said, what is going on in this country?
I spoke to all of the abused girls individually and Mr. Speaker Sir, the trend is that most of them are from Mabvuku, Epworth, Hatcliffe and Dzivarasekwa. I will tell you the reason; these are areas which were inhabited mostly by people of foreign origin, migrant workers from Malawi, Mozambique and Zambia. I think 98% of them are of foreign descent, their parents are migrant workers, mostly, they are first generation Zimbabweans and come from poor backgrounds.
There is this nine-year old and at the very most, she is 10 years old.
She stood up to give a testimony to say that; ‘I sleep with men.’ I asked how old some of those men are and she said, ‘some of them are bigger than you.’ When she said that, she was talking of stature not maybe my age, ‘some of them are bigger than you.’ I asked how much money she gets and she said, ‘at times I get 50 cents if he is a good man, but some of them will not give you money and they will beat you up.’ My heart sank, I was so angry with myself and everything. I was angry with even the Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth that how do you create a man who is 45 years old, who takes a nine-year old girl to a room and have sex with her and thinks he will get satisfaction.
In the United States of America, if you are arrested for rape and you go to a penitentiary, in prison, if you dare tell other prisoners that you were arrested for a sexual offence, they will kill you. Worse still, if it filters in that prison that you abused a 10-year old girl, you will not be able to last two days in that prison, other inmates will kill you. That is how bad the offence of the abuse of children is.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I asked the nine –year old when asked why she had taken this and she said, ‘my mother died and she left me when I was seven years old and my young sister was three years old. My father married another woman and we went to stay with our step mother. Our step mother abused us so much and I thought I should just go out into the streets.’ Then she came across I think somebody who was 18 years old who told her ‘look, if you come with me, I can organise for men whom you can have sex with and they will give you money.’
Mr. Speaker, I was talking to Hon. Misihairabwi – Mushonga when I gave a speech at that function that, why is it that all these girls who have a problem, it appears there must be a woman somewhere in their lives who will have caused a problem? As if that was not enough, the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, who is a woman, instead of dealing with the problem of those girls, goes ahead and causes the arrest of those women who are helping those girls. She is not only a woman, she is a mother. I know some of her children, she is a mother and a grandmother. She causes the arrest of those women that are helping these vulnerable children.
There is somebody in an office somewhere who is called a Provincial Administrator who generates a letter to say this organisation which is helping these girls is not allowed to operate, and you leave it at that. I heard that there was a debate on radio where somebody then went out to say no, those abused girls are actually not nine but eleven years old. What difference does it make? One of the guys, a prospective
Member of Parliament says Katswe Sisters are exaggerating things,
these girls I want to see them and the girl that they were saying is nine years old, I actually spoke to her and I think she is ten years six months, almost turning eleven. I almost broke my radio and said so what difference does it make.
A person who is abusing a nine year old girl and a person who is abusing a 14 year old girl, where is the difference? A girl who is 14 years old is not capable of having sex. It does not really matter what it is. a girl who is 14 years old even if she says yes, she is not capable of consenting to sex and a man who is reasonable, men that want to have sex if you have sex with a 14 year old girl we do not call that sex. If you want to have sex, have it with a 25 year old woman and they are so many of them who are willing to have sex without even payment, for free. This issue is so serious. When one of these girls was talking, incidentally she shares a first name with my daughter and I was sitting there saying if it so happens that one of these men who has being abusing these girls is identified, I will probably spend the rest of my life in prison because I will kill them with my own hands.
Mr. Speaker, what we need to do as Parliament is instruct the police to go tonight and make sure that those girls that are being abused are picked. It is not like we do not know where they are. In Mabvuku, I have gone to every household where they live and I know where they live. I have made a report to the police but nothing has been done. I know where they live and I almost know the men that patronise those houses to abuse those girls but what can you do. I have made a report to the police and the Minister of Information, Media and Broadcasting Services was here.
All they do at ZBC which makes me so unhappy is that they go and parade those girls in front of the cameras and ask them how many times they have had sex in a week. This girl says I am 11 years old, having sex with old and getting paid money but they do not do anything about it. You parade young children on television, 14 year olds are telling you they are having sex and you think you have good programming. That is our ZBC. In other jurisdictions Mr. Speaker, there is no way that you can take a 14 year old and parade them on television to tell you how many men she has slept with in the past two days. You cannot do that. It is against the Constitution and you are violating the rights of children but it happens here with our poor ZBC, understandably so. The Minister is not here but I would have wanted to tell the Minister to go to ZBC and tell them to stop what they are doing. Tell them to stop parading eleven year olds in front of the television telling us how many times you have slept with men because it does not give good programming. That is not good programming.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social
Services, Hon. Mupfumira must give a Ministerial Statement to this
House and say exactly what she has done and what she intends to do. Ever since she was taken to those girls that are being abused, what has she done and what does she intend to do as Government? She has not done that. Mr. Speaker, I cannot understand for the life of me how an adult; a mother, father or grandparent would see five girls who are all below the age of 14 that are being abused by men every night. You see them, talk to them and you go back home, have your supper and you sleep. How do you sleep?
How on earth do you sleep; because in my case, I used to hear my mother saying ah ndaona mwana arohwa nemota, nyoka dzangu dzemudumbu dzarira. Those are the kinds of situations dzinofanira kuridza madzimai nyoka dzemudumbu if you hear that an eleven year old is having sex. Kana nyoka dzemudumbu dzaMinister dzisina kurira neizvozvo it means nyoka dzacho dzemudumbu havana because nyoka dzaMinister dzinofanira kunge dzakarira, manheru iwayo vakatorara vaenda kumba kwaPresident kunoti President situation yandaona kumba uku haiite. Something must be done nhasi and something should have been done on that particular day, but what are we doing? Those sisters or ladies from Katswe were at Central Police Station. When I heard about it
I was in Bulawayo and I said, look I am going to drive to the Central Police Station have them release those ladies and arrest me instead.
What wrong have they done? They have seen a problem in our society and are trying to assist with the little resources and expertise and what do you do, you arrest them. What are we doing?
Mr. Speaker, I think I have said enough, but what I want to put on the table is that 11, 14 and 15 year old girls cannot have sex. They are not capable of having sex and if you are having sex with a 15 year old, you are raping them. I do not think it is actually called rape. I do not know what it must be called. Rape is when you have sex which is nonconsensual with somebody who is capable of having sex, which means somebody who has reached the legal age of majority but if it is somebody who is 11 years old, I do not know what it is called. Government must do something about it and I enjoin the Minister to give a statement and also the Minister of Health, because under his portfolio there is child welfare and child welfare means 11 year olds must be protected from men that abuse them. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me an opportunity. It should also be put on record that I have been itching to debate here all afternoon after Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, the last day last week when she came through to me to say she needed to debate on this one. So, I went and looked at the Order Paper and really sought to know the merits and demerits of the motion and I saw that there was no demerit whatsoever. I was really itching for this day to come. So, when nobody stood up to say they are seconding this is why I stood up Mr. Speaker to say I am seconding and I am here. Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate her for bringing this motion to the House and debating on it. From the time she was debating, I also took notes and I see it relates to a certain constituency in Mabvuku-Tafara and all that.
Be that as it may, I will give it a broader perspective in particular, will also hasten to say further to the clarion call and the prayer that is embedded here, I would want to say Mr. Speaker let there be a schooling of all people that are engaged with children in the rural, urban areas and every other place or facet of society Mr. Speaker which people and adults should include the artisanal miners, youth officers, AREX officers, Women’s Affairs, labour officers, registration officer, police, headmaster, councilors and Members of Parliament. There has to be a workshop somehow somewhere that inculcates into these people some form of responsibility, what it is that they need to do in order to take care of our children, mindful of the fact that it is not all of the people in our society that are gifted with a gift of giving birth to a child. Some have no children Mr. Speaker - not because of their own wanting, but it is God given. Those that have children some do not have a girl-child in their family Mr. Speaker Sir. It is very important and prudent that to add on to the prayer, they also need to be inculcated with knowledge of how to keep children and how to take care of girl children in particular and boy children also in general; those people which list I have mentioned.
Further to that, it is now time to call a spade a spade; we need to follow what Cabinet has put in place in terms of trying to incarcerate somebody that rapes a minor for 60 years without an option of a fine. We need to take a bold step as Parliament and also say this is exactly what we want to occur and to happen in our society; mindful that at some point when there was rampant corruption in China, they arrayed those corrupt officials and they fired at them using a firing squad. This is exactly what we should be doing and for now, we should say yes, there is a call for incarceration of these perpetrators of injustice on children to the tune of 60 years without an option of a fine. Further to that, we need to do more especially for people that are in positions of authority, the people that were being spoken about here in particular by Hon. Maridadi, those pot-bellied, big bodied fat lumps of shit.
Mr. Speaker, it boggles one’s mind why people of such stature would go about hunting for the girl child, the minors. I will give a little story. I was in Dodoma in Dar-es-Salaam recently. I am quite sure Hon.
Khupe would know why, in Tanzania, sorry after going through Dar-es- Salaam, I went to Dodoma. Whilst I was there, my daughter called me.
She is in Upper Six in Bulawayo at girls’ college. She called and she is 19 years. She called me and said daddy, I know you are in a foreign land, I have seen the type of dress that I want for my last dance in Upper Six I have not found the material and if you have got an alternative there, bring some material, I have got a tailor and she can make a dress for me for my last dance.
Mr. Speaker, the last dance means she has to dance with a boy - [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – Yes, she has to dance with a boy. I did not sleep that night saying but my daughter wants to dance with a boy, her last dance. I am still not prepared to give her away because to me she is still a minor. This is a 19 head old I am talking about and that night I did not sleep; I was scratching my head saying ohh my God, what is going to happen after the dance? What is going to happen before the dance, what boy is this? How did she even get to meet this boy? The mother and myself do not know. This is the sort of mind boggling issues that I had to content with the whole night, let alone the children that I heard Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga and Hon. Maridadi speak about Mr. Speaker.
Those people that indulge in sex with those minors should be sentenced to hang. They should be sentenced to be arrayed before a firing squad and be shot by a marksman. By the way Mr. Speaker, I am a marksman of note, I have got a two inch grouping that I attended at
Four Brigade Mr. Speaker. So, I would certainly come in handy when such a task is given because as long as you have a child and you have a child who is a girl and this occurs to your child, like Hon. Maridadi said, the only thing that you want to do is to put your hands around the neck of the perpetrator of such injustice like an albatross and see their lifeless body on the floor.
Mr. Speaker Sir, further to that as I conclude, I would also say we owe it to posterity and to future generations. As we speak, we are mortgaging our future, the future of this country and the future of our children. These children, as she has alluded to, are of stunted growth nature. I go further to say, they will not go beyond 15 years. It is said by the gurus in the health sector, if a child is HIV positive, nine times out of 10, they will not grow beyond the age of five years. This is what the people in the health sector have said. If a child is HIV positive coupled and amalgamated by the issue of abuse and rape and selling sex that we have heard about, they certainly will not go beyond the age of 10 if they manage to go beyond the age of five, let alone the age of 15.
So, here Mr. Speaker Sir, I ask those that do not have girl children to come together with me and Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, Hon. Maridadi and speak with one voice. I have got in my constituency, cases that fuel the issue of child sex, rape and abuse, the girl child in particular. It is sharing one room, lack of accommodation; baba, sekuru, muzukuru, mbuya, ambuya, mukuwasha in that same room, divided into four rooms using a curtain. There cannot be procreation there, and there cannot be copulation. What is it that the children are seeing the adults doing? This is going to fuel the much rampant abuse as they go out. They start wanting to seek what they saw the adults engaging in. As long as we do not engage in ameliorating the issue of lack of accommodation, we are fueling rampant child abuse. The girl child would want to be engaged in what she is seeing the adults doing. It is not their fault but the fault of the adults who are not dealing with a housing backlog issue, Mr. Speaker Sir. I have given you an example of exactly what happens in Chegutu.
Now, I have another example of a former councillor in Chegutu, who is engaged in co-procreation, copulation and sex with his daughter. This is termed nholowizana, it used to be in Plumtree and I make a clarion call that this should come to an end. In this day and age where there is DNA, this person together with the prayer of getting the police to go and arrest the perpetrators, I called for the police to immediately go and arrest this person who was a former Councillor in Chegutu and make sure they are incarcerated without an option of a fine.
HON. MLILO: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
What is your point of order?
HON. MLILO: I do appreciate the marvelous and spirit of the debate that the Hon. Member is giving but let us shun away from him drawing a wrong impression. In Kalanga when they talk about the nholowizana, it is actually a father sleeping with a daughter-in-law not a father sleeping with his own daughter. Yes, it is wrong but let us correct the statement.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I thank Hon. Mlilo for the correction –[THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are not familiar with the language] – yes, it is called nholowizana and also Mr. Speaker, still two wrongs do not make a right and we are trying to right wrongs here, that should be completely eradicated. It should be completely eradicated and I agree with him Mr. Speaker, it is just the terminology and issue of semantics but it means the same Mr. Speaker – [THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER: Well heard Hon. Member, please proceed] – So, Mr. Speaker Sir, further to that, as though Chegutu Town Council is hounded, there is a present councillor, who goes around in Chegutu sleeping with every school child, without looking at their birth certificates or registration certificates and they are calling themselves a councillor. It should be noted that for you to be a councillor or a Member of Parliament, you should have a clean track record. No record of child, women, wife abuse and bartering. That should be on record – Hon. Misihairabwi says then there would not be any Hon. Members of Parliament who are male, this is an opportunity for women
Parliamentarians to up the stakes from 35% women representation to 100%, if it is so Mr. Speaker Sir.
Lastly, I want to applaud the First Lady. She has taken the bull by the horns and has led the way in terms of making sure that she takes care of orphans including girl children. Therefore, organisations out there and everybody else who has got the capacity should also take a cue from her in order that we annihilate completely the scourge of child abuse, in particular the girl child. I want to repeat this phrase that what men can do, women can do better. Now we are mortgaging our future by stunting women growth in all facets and all assets of life. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to
thank Hon. Misihairabwi for bringing this up. I have been listening. I am not part of the group that has had that experience to visit the NonGovernmental Organisation by the name Katswe. From the stories I have heard as they elaborated, it is quite pathetic that there are such groups of men who would go out with children.
It is just this morning when I was reading one of the newspapers where the father and mother were sleeping in the same room with their three daughters. The father, when the wife was asleep sneaked from their blankets to rape their 12 year daughter. The child cried out and the mother was awakened by the noise and the matter was reported to the police. Imagine the father did not even fear the mother who was together with him. This means some of these things happen and are not reported. What we are witnessing is the tip of the iceberg. These stories are many.
I am going to dwell much on suggestions. We have heard the problem is quite huge – like the President had said that the Bill that is going to come, is going to have a mandatory rape sentence. When that Bill comes, I urge all Hon. Members to fine tune that Bill so that no one will ever sleep with anyone who is within the stipulated age. It is unfortunate that it is about the fathers. Yes, there is abuse from mothers, I agree but the abuse that comes from the fathers is really embarrassing.
Now I wonder if ever children will respect their own fathers, if their own fathers are raping them.
I was not clear on why Katswe Sisterhood were taken to police, I did not get it quite clearly when you explained but I feel that when there are such organisations that are protecting children, we should support them – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – One of the days it will be about your relative or your own child, that is when it will matter. We would actually want to ask the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to quickly bring the Bill to the House so that we deal with this one as a matter of urgency. Already we have got an Instrument which the President has given to say the Bill is going to come. So, if that is fast tracked, we fine tune it so that we look at all the loopholes that may come up.
I am also worried with the issue of children who are in the streets. There are some children who come from their own homes and get into beer halls for that purpose. I wonder what type of homes they are, where parents actually allow children to do that. I think within the same Bill, there should be some sentence for such parents who misguide; who leave children to do what they please to such an extent that they even go to the beer halls and drink – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – At the end of the day they will accept parcels which they would bring to them.
It is unfortunate that we have got such parents in our communities. Therefore, in the Bill we should include something for the parents. They should also be arrested for that. Why should they not protect those children?
I also think that the Committee which has oversight on social welfare should carry out a study. If my memory serves me right, when you get to the border post of Zambia, you would see something written in big words to say do not give alms to beggars. If ever you have seen that, if my memory serves me right. I asked what it meant when I went through that border. The explanation to that was when you get there, people who begs in the streets, if you are seen giving them any token you will be arrested. They should go to particular areas where they should get assistance because by so doing you are encouraging everybody to be in the streets. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Even those who are able bodied are also seen begging. What it means is that we will end up having everybody in the streets. Whilst we may want to help them, we should find ways of assisting them. At the end of the day, some children go to streets to beg because they have seen it as a method of living even those that have got decent families. Just last week, one of my councillors was complaining to say his nephew did not want to go to a school which was nearer to their home, living with his biological parents. He just said I no longer want to learn here, can I accompany you there. When they refused, he had to walk 20 km to go and stay with the uncle. What happened to that scenario, people were afraid that nowadays people can hang themselves if they feel that they are tormented? Look at the children of today. I think we should also enforce some discipline within the children. Hon. Members, I think we should take this motion seriously and ask for the Bill to come to the
House – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. DR. LABODE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to
thank the mover of this motion. This is a very important area and I was saddened when I heard about Katswe Sisters being arrested and being sanctioned not to operate. It is an open secret in Zimbabwe that children are having sex at the age of ten. Hon. Minister Dokora told us in his speech one time here that 4500 girls did not manage to go to form one because they were pregnant. How old are grade seven children? That alone, as a Government and a Parliament, should have been a warning bell that there is a disaster out there. That should have told us that something is wrong.
It is not only my Comrades Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, Hon. Maridadi and the other Hon. Members who went to Epworth or wherever they went; the Committee on Health and Child Care also visited Ngundu. We met with young sex workers in Ngundu. They were aged 13 and 14. The older sex workers complained to us as a Committee that they now have a problem that varume vakuda ava vadiki. Are you listening to this? This is a norm in Zimbabwe if you do not know. Let us not pretend. It is shocking that the Minister can actually stand up, instead of taking the bull by the horns; she wants to victimize a civil society organisation. This is why a lot of other civil society organisations have said to us that in Zimbabwe it is ‘see no evil, talk no evil’. This means that if you see a bad thing, keep quiet and go under. Those people are helping us. They have identified an issue. What we need to do is to ask ourselves how we have to deal with it. We cannot deny that the reason we have a child sex worker is because of poverty. If we have an unemployment rate of 90%, what do we expect?
Some of you are asking - where are these children’s parents when they go out; the mother is a vendor and sells tomatoes until 10 pm. Vana varikupi? Of course, they are having sex so that they are able to buy bread or drink. Zimbabwe is now loaded with illegal abortions. Do you know why? These are the very small children who are taken to n’angas; when they get pregnant and something is inserted in her; she then dies or ends up in the system. There is evidence to this effect.
The Ministry of Health produced a report that said 16% of the contribution to maternal mortality is coming from illegal abortion. What has Zimbabwe done? We are hiding under the table and saying that we do not have a law of abortion. Abortion irikuitika in full force because of these things. Let us wake up and do something about our issues. I am urging the Minister of Health and Child Care to go and tell the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to let go of Katswe Sisters. Please, let go of Katswe! Ah aah! What is this?
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I also rise to echo my views in support of the motion that has been moved by Hon.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga and supported by Hon. Maridadi.
I am not going to say much but perhaps just to highlight what the
Child Rights Convention says. The Convention on the Rights of the Child which is a United Nations Convention is a Human Rights Treaty which sets out the civil, political, economic, social, health and cultural rights of children. The Convention defines a child as any human being under the age of eighteen unless the age of majority is attained earlier under the national legislation.
Most of us saw on social media the nine year old girl who was talking with her back to the camera but we all heard the audio. This is a nine year old who is engaging in sexual activities and we have this Child Rights Convention. I need to pose a question and say, as a Zimbabwean Government, have we gone a step further to ratify and domesticate this convention? If not, as this Bill that has been proposed to come into the House and through that statement which we are proposing to come and make; we need to raise questions to the Minister of Public Service,
Labour and Social Services if she has ever heard of the Child Rights Convention and that it should be domesticated and ratified by the
Zimbabwean Government like other 196 countries which have since ratified it. It talks about child labour, sexual harassment, rape and all violations with regards to children. We need to question the Minister when she comes to make her statement and then we ensure that the rights of the children are protected sexually as well as we are reading in the papers.
I also need to make a comment on what has been raised by Hon. Mangami, of fathers who are sleeping with their own children. I am sure all Hon. Members here read newspapers. It is almost like an everyday practice and it is almost like we have since accepted it because this issue had never been raised in this House – not even during question and answer policy questions that we ask our Ministers in terms of what is being done to the issues or matters that we are reading almost every day.
You can read four, five or six cases of fathers who are raping their own daughter or sodomising their own sons. As we read in the press, this is related to rituals to do with riches; to make one’s family rich. As Hon. Labode has said, the economic situation is exacerbating all these things because if somebody starts thinking that if I go and rape or sodomize my own son, then I automatically become rich – it means perhaps there are no other means of survival and they are now believing in witchcraft. We have heard about witchcraft. They are now believing in witchcraft that suddenly they turn around and make fortunes for their families but we need to question what has gone wrong with our own fathers in terms of the rape cases that we read in the press, raping as young as a two year old, six months or his own daughter. This is unheard of.
What is it that you touch? When the penis erects, how do you insert it into the vagina of a two year old or a six months old daughter? How do you do it? A mother comes from fetching water and finds a child crying. If my memory serves me right, I think it happened somewhere in Plumtree. A mother finds a baby crying and then on opening the napkin, she finds that the baby has been raped and she is bleeding with semen all over and the father had bolted. God knows where he had gone to. What is going wrong in our minds, men? What
is it?
We need to be dramatic about these things as they are happening so that we can appreciate where as women - Hon. Maridadi has said it, nyoka dzinorwadza, dzinorira. As you read the newspaper, you really wonder what this man is thinking. This man is left to look after the child as the mother goes to fetch water to cook, but he stays behind to commit such a heinous act. What is it? Hon. Speaker, we need to interrogate these questions.
There is another Hon. Member who raised the issue of sharing the same room. Here we are as a Zimbabwean Government, we have the Matapi flats. This is 37 years after independence and we are still having families and children living in the Matapi flats and we have not really taken it upon ourselves as a Government, with that moral fabric in our society to maintain it; to have held the bull by its horns and said, this is not fit for family dwelling or for raising a family; they must be demolished or renovated. We still keep saying people should continue to stay in the Matapi flats where rooms are divided by curtains. I have never been inside, but we know this is what is happening. That kind of accommodation was meant for single men.
I remember that even in Sakubva where I grew up, there is a section called ‘Singles’ or ‘Matida’. That is where single men used to stay. When we were growing up they used to have inspections which were colloquially referred to as ‘spaction’. Our relatives who used to stay in these Matida or Single sections would come and temporarily stay with us in Sakubva in the marriage quarters because of these inspections and then return to their homes. That is what used to happen during that time, but we are still continuing with the same system.
I think it is high time we should hold the bull by its horns. Either we renovate, demolish or we have to come with a system of how we can normalise in order to raise a good family, a good society. You should not rejoice when misfortune befalls others for tomorrow it will be your turn, either personally or through your relatives.
Hon. Speaker, the issue of economy actually embraces all these symptoms. They are coming from the issue of our economy. I think as Zimbabweans, we need to be serious particularly when we are looking at our Executive which gives the guide, which gives the light in terms of shaping the economy of this country. We need to work as a team. We need to put our minds together. This idea of showing off our wealth as individuals, I do not think it will take us anywhere as a nation. What we basically need to do is to say, if everybody can become an employer and create employment, we should lay the opportunities of creating employment on the table and let everyone have an opportunity to pick which opportunity he or she can implement and be successful. It is the role of the Executive to do that – lay opportunities on the table. Let everyone have an opportunity, grab and create employment if they can, if she can - that lady there.
That is the situation we want in this country not this situation of hiding information to do with economic opportunities where employment can be created and can be a preserve for a few who can actually get connected or those who are well connected are the only ones who get the information and opportunity. Let everyone be a player in his or her own way and contribute to the growth of this economy. There are so many opportunities if we are serious, Hon. Speaker. All these symptoms that we are talking about will be a thing of the past. I thank you.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity to also add my voice in support of the motion which was raised by Hon. Misihairabwi, seconded by Hon. Maridadi. I would like to thank Hon. Misihairabwi for bringing this motion to this House. As she was sitting she was saying to me, I want to debate it today because this is an urgent matter. As she was speaking, I then realised that indeed, this is an urgent matter.
Mr. Speaker Sir, if you remember some few months ago, Hon. Misihairabwi debated a report where Zimbabwean girls were being abused in Kuwait and she proposed that as women Members of
Parliament, we must sit on the floor until such time that the girls are returned home and we did exactly that. The second time, Mr. Speaker Sir, we debated another motion where young girls came to this House – 9 years and 10 years old. Mr. Speaker, they were pregnant. As Hon. Misihairabwi was speaking, my stomach started crying. It is crying right now because I felt birth pains to say nine year olds – you do not know what I am feeling right now.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as women, we go through a torrid time. We carry babies for nine months. Those nine months are not easy. That is the most terrible time for a woman in her lifetime, carrying a baby for nine months. Mr. Speaker Sir, we go through birth pains when we are giving birth. I cannot explain the kind of pain that I went through when I gave birth to my children. I cannot explain it to anybody. That is the most difficult time for a woman in her lifetime.
After giving birth to those children, Mr. Speaker Sir, we nurture them. We have got dreams for those children to say, I want my child to grow up and go to school so that she becomes a lawyer. I have a daughter. When I gave birth to her I had a dream for her. She is 23 years old and she is a lawyer as I speak right now. My heart is bleeding as I stand in front of this House to imagine that somebody else’s child, a
9 year old, her life, her future has been shattered completely. It is gone Mr. Speaker Sir. They are as good as dead.
How does a normal man stand up, go to a street and pick up a nine year old child? I am speaking to those men right now, Mr. Speaker Sir.
I cried with Hon. Misihairabwi when she sat down and I said now, I want to speak to those men, Mr. Speaker Sir. They leave their homes and their grandchildren who are nine years old and they go out there and sleep with a nine year old child. They go back to their homes and they look at that nine year old – what are they saying? What is going through their minds?
You are going to abuse another person’s child out there. You go into your own house, you have got a grandchild who is nine years old and you are looking at her. What goes into your mind? This is a serious matter, Mr. Speaker Sir. I am very emotional about it because this is not on and I think as this Parliament, we must make sure that something happens to these men. The Katswe Sisterhood – they must let go of them right now as we speak and tomorrow, we want to hear reports that those women are free. They must be supported. They must be supported because they have realised that there is a situation here and they have come in to say, we want to help and somebody says they must be arrested. Mr. Speaker Sir, this is not right.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is important, other Hon. Members have said it that the Minister must come here and give a Ministerial Statement but not only that Mr. Speaker Sir, something must be done. These men must be arrested. Hon. Misihairabwi said, policemen were being deployed to go to queues, they must be deployed where these girls are being picked. They must be arrested and they belong behind bars. They do not belong to this society Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Misihairabwi was telling me horrendous stories that these little girls were saying these men would come and remove – I want to say this, they will remove their thing and you can see that it has got sores all over but these men would just put it into their mouths Mr. Speaker Sir. Their thing with sores, what kind of nonsense is this. I have to say this, it is not right Mr. Speaker Sir. We need to protect our children. Our children must be protected.
I would like to propose this to Government Mr. Speaker Sir. This is why we have always been saying education from Grade 1 to Grade 7 must be free. The reason why we are saying this is to allow all these children to go to school so that their parents are then able to save for their secondary education, but every child will at least go to school for free from Grade 1 to Grade 7. Zimbabwe is a very rich country, endowed with enormous resources. If our resources were to be managed properly, as a country we can afford to do this. It happened in 1980, I think it can happen right now, Mr. Speaker Sir.
I would like to conclude by saying, like what the Honourable said, thank you very much for bringing this motion, but the Minister must come to this House. At the same time as Parliament, we must do something, because some of these things do not need a budget. You do not need a budget to go and arrest those people, for somebody to say, we do not have money and so on. Those men must be arrested. We want to see them arrested. They do not belong to society, they belong behind bars. Hon. Maridadi said, they must be hanged. Mr. Speaker Sir, I rest my case but I am very angry – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me start by thanking the mover of such a painful motion, Hon. Misiharibwi and her seconder, Hon. Maridadi. The motion under debate is painful but I can take comfort in the fact that the Hon. Members that are in this august House have rallied behind the motion. If they remain steadfast behind such a motion, they will be exemplary to the wayward men that are out there. If they show their distaste of the kind of behaviour by the wayward men, we may be able to realise results very soon. I would want to believe that the time this Bill will be brought before this Parliament, it should not take more than five minutes of discussion. It should be fast tracked so that men out there would know that we now have a law in place.
There is also the issue of rape. There is a mandatory sentence of rape which is nine years, but whenever men are arrested, they go to court and get a bail. When they are out on bail, they do as they please because they have a lawyer. They will still continue committing further offences. They would even go to the extent of raping their own children because they would know that their end is near. Even if he is suffering from a disease, he would go out and spread while on bail. When the proposed law comes before this House, we must say that whoever is accused of rape, whether the complainant is a young girl or elder woman, they should have their private parts exterminated so that they do not have anything to use to rape the small children.
Mr. Speaker, we want this country to ensure that every girl should go to school for free from Grade 1 up to Grade 7. These small girls will develop this country. These men should be castrated. The police should waylay these men and wear the suits so that they can apprehend these men. These girls have become sexually active and it is difficult for them to stop. The police should arrest about twenty men per day and imprison them. The law should not allow these men to be released and we use them as an example to others. I would want to believe that the law as regards rape has a lot of lacunas that are ensuring that men are getting away with murder. They are not behind bars and they are roaming the streets freely.
The Minister is a mother and has felt the labour pains that a woman experiences. Even if a woman is barren, a woman is created in such a way that she feels the pain inside the stomach. Such a thing should hurt everyone. The first form of fund is with the Social Welfare Department that ensures that these children are looked after properly, including the children that are in the streets. If possible, the Minister should ensure that all these children are taken to children’s homes and see how they could take care of them. Some of these children are from able-bodied parents who are just lazy. They go and sit in the shade while the child is begging on the streets. If you go and see through traffic lights, you would find they are women. She would be breastfeeding her child, monitoring that whatever the child is given is put into the pocket. They are begging because of the love of money. Others have acquired many properties through funds raised by such children.
I urge the Minister to take away all the children from the streets. We have many police officers in Zimbabwe and they are hard working, we want them to show their expertise. We are proud of the way they conduct their work. We want them to show us that they can clear the street of all the street children and arrest these men. The previous speaker said, there are beer halls and clubs where children are allowed to striptease and the men then appreciate them. Thereafter they go and abuse them. The bar owners should be arrested and licenses withdrawn. They should be given their due rewards because this is a bad way of raising money. Why are they not using their children and abuse them as dancers?
There was also mention of some children that face abuse because the parents would have separated and the stepmother would not be able to look after the children, I wish they could be arrested. The law stipulates that one year old to 18 year olds should be in the custody of their mother. The fathers should pay maintenance to ensure responsibility upon their own children. The child is born out of love of the parents. If a woman becomes a step mother, she must properly take care of these children, if not she should be arrested.
I have heard that about 70% of Members of Parliament here are
HIV positive. Let me say that the Hon. Members that are in this august House, that if they get tested, there is a fund that gives them free drugs. So, they should behave and not go about spreading the disease. As legislators they should lead by example. If there is corruption, we would want to see who is perpetuating it, if they are leaders, they should be given deterrent sentences. If a Member of Parliament infects an innocent person, that Member should be killed and that would be a lesson to likeminded persons.
An 18 year old girl is still immature as well as one to 10 year olds. These children will be abused by these men; they will innocently accept everything that is suggested by these ruthless men. The economy at the moment is not good and it also contributes to the abuse of children by men. These young girls would believe that if they accept whatever is being asked by these big men, they would buy half a loaf of bread because they are street kids.
However, the parents of these girl children in the streets should be arrested if ever they are identified because they are abusing their children. Such type of women should not be pardoned. We should have a law that has deterrent sentences. A lot of these girls were in the streets during the past few days buying bond notes and changing them into US dollars. If this game is put to a stop since the President is back in the country, where are those children going to be? They will actually go back to the streets where they will be sexually abused for nothing by these men. Anyone who abuses a child should be arrested so that no one can take this issue lightly
Corruption; anyone can freely do it because there are lawyers. If a person is granted bail at court house, it is very rare for them to go back. If they go back it means somehow they are blind, once they have been granted bail-out, the case is further remanded for 10 years. Even on the case for Hon. Kereke, if it had not been raised in this august House, he could have been enjoying himself just like an innocent person like us.
We should always ensure that law is maintained.
There should be a fund for children which should be strictly set aside for assisting our children just as there is a funding for those that would have contacted HIV whilst enjoying themselves. It is important to ensure that we protect our children from such mis-happenings. I do not know if the police force is able to go and arrest 10 people and if possible bring them to this august House to show that these are the wayward fathers who abused children. These are not ordinary fathers. If a man has a Mercedes Benz it shows he has money, so how then can he enjoy sexual pleasure with a small girl. It is better that they do it with their own granddaughter and not someone else’s, it is painful. If we would be asked to bring our girl children for men to have sexual pleasure with them; all of us would have a heart attack here. In fact, there will be byelections because of women parliamentarians who would have collapsed because of that.
We want questions asked to the Hon. Minister as to what exactly she is doing in her Ministry because Zimbabwe is not poor. We have milk and honey in our country. Songs are still being sung that were used to be sung that say this is a land of milk and honey. However, there are other people that misuse their positions so that other people cannot prosper. We had problems with the availability of fuel but since the Head of State is back it is now awash. The police need to be all over and carry out this exercise throughout the country.
Our children have grown so weary in Magunje because of these evil deeds that are being done to them. They should arrest these evil men. I would like to thank Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga and the Hon. Speaker for affording me the opportunity to debate on such a painful motion.
*HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this
opportunity that you have granted me. I would want to thank those that have spoken before me. I have observed that this is an emotional issue and we are disturbed by such happenings in our country as regards the abuse of children.
I want to say this motion is very emotional. I saw Hon. Maridadi almost breaking into tears because of that issue. However, I would like to encourage that the origins of this case be looked at. We should not deal with the symptoms. If the symptoms are treated, the disease will not go away. I would like to give you three reasons that I have observed in Norton, in 1995. There was a certain couple who had a very good life. Their eldest child although young, had her own bedroom. This child would remove the burglar bars during the night and go out. She would come to Harare and enjoy herself. This child was being well looked after by her parents, she had everything that she would desire. However, it was only discovered one night when the parents tried to wake her up that she was not in. That child was just mischievous; there was no issue of poverty.
On the second issue, I gave a lift to a woman who was going to Rusape, she said that when her child came back from school, she asked for a new pillow. When they were taking her back to school, she looked into the pillow and found that there were some drugs in that pillow. She was a drug queen at the institution although the parents had everything.
After giving such examples Mr. Speaker Sir, I know that this is being done to people that are poor, as well as, those that are not poor. Now they say it is a difficult situation for one to sleep in a house where there are fleas. We no longer have values Mr. Speaker. The law now says it is an offence for a parent to assault their child at home. At school, teachers no longer hit children. As they grow up in that mode, there is no one who can control them. They are now grown up and we want the Police to go and assist these children. Tame them young they always say. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks. In the olden days, a child belonged to everyone. Anyone could just hit anyone’s child who was behaving in a wayward manner. If I were to assault your child, you would report me to the authorities for having offended you.
It would appear as if the men are the ones that are ensuring that they are abusing the children but history does not show that. If you go to the origin, Adam did say that it was the woman that you gave me that has led me to these problems. The man complained that the woman had caused this position. Lot had left with his girls but the girls drugged him so that they could have sexual intercourse with him. In Potiphar’s house Mr. Speaker Sir, Potiphar observed that Joseph was blessed. He put him in charge of that household but Potiphar’s wife saw Joseph as a man and it was his wife who attempted to rape Joseph. We should be careful of the words that come from women.
It is true Mr. Speaker that what is happening is disgusting, distasteful and pathetic but we should go to the root cause and start making amends from there. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I think that this is a very important debate and I want to congratulate Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga for her tenacity to ensure that this motion is moved today. At one time I was whispering when I was seated next to her and she was really worried that she was not going to have an opportunity to move the motion. She wanted to move the motion last week on Thursday but it did not happen.
I want to say that for those Members who are still in this august House, I really want to thank you for the support that you have shown for this important debate. This debate had been going quite well Mr. Speaker and I believe that across the political divide, the voices that were coming out were very clear that all of us have been touched. What Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga said in her presentation buttressed by Hon. Maridadi from their personal experiences or rather in interviewing these girls and so on, it is something which is really moving and I would have expected that all of us were going to really take it to heart. I would have expected that the nature of this debate must be premised on the experiences which we have gone through, which have happened recently in respect of these very young girls who are being abused.
It is unfortunate Mr. Speaker that as the motion was being moved, it was quite clear that unfortunately, the relevant Ministry and the law enforcement agencies, instead of dealing with the culprits or perpetrators, felt that they will deal with the Katswe Sisterhood. I will come to that aspect later. Be that as it may, what is really of bigger concern is part of the debate which has just taken place before I stood up. There were certain sentiments which were being expressed which are of great concern to me.
First and foremost, I want to say that this motion is not about women, it is about all of us. For some of us, I want to say that women are very important in my life, firstly, because of the obvious reason that my mother is a woman, I have got a wife who is obviously a woman, I also have a sister but over and above that I have got three daughters. Out of my four children, three of them are girls and I really believe that we must appreciate that some of the abuses which are taking place, the majority of the victims are actually women. Whilst there may be a few cases where boys are also victims, the majority of the cases even when we look at the statistics are women.
It is therefore unfortunate when you start making biblical references which I believe have no real relevance to what we are supposed to be talking about. I think what we are supposed to be talking about Mr. Speaker is to look for real solutions. In my view, sometimes when we make some of those unfortunate references to biblical situations, we are taking them out of context, that is the first point. Most of the time, it is not pertinent or relevant to what we should be talking about.
Having said that Mr. Speaker, I believe that what is critical is for us when we are speaking with one voice to have concrete actions to be taken. I agree to what is being suggested in this motion that let us have a Ministerial Statement so that we can interrogate the Hon. Minister on what transpired after the exposure of this case. This is where I want to go back to the issue of the Katswe Sisterhood. I had an interaction with them when we had the SADC Plenary Assembly here at Rainbow Towers in November, last year. What they did Mr. Speaker, we were debating the issue of eradicating child marriage and protecting those already in marriage, they came and made a very good presentation and that is when I really had that interaction with them. From that interaction, I am very convinced that they have been doing a good job. Obviously, I do not have personal knowledge of what transpired in this particular case other than what has been said in the movement of this motion and also what I have read in the press.
It is really alarming Mr. Speaker, that we can have a scenario where people who are doing their level best to expose some of these things end up being prohibited from operating. I think it is something which we really need the Minister to come here, not next week but tomorrow or Thursday. This is why I believe that on this motion I think we have had sufficient debate and it is important that it be wound up so that it can be implemented immediately. Practically I say tomorrow or Thursday at the latest so that we can now deal with the real issues which we must grapple with.
Mr. Speaker, I also want to talk about other issues. It is not just about legislation. I believe that what is more important is attitude. When Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga was moving the motion, a lot of things went through my mind. Obviously when you drive around, you all see a lot of these young girls begging for whatever you can give to them. However, I did not know that afterwards they are forced into a situation where some men and I am really embarrassed if we have men who do that. I am really embarrassed for being a man if I have got counterparts or other people who do the sort of things which were being described by Hon. Mushonga and Hon. Maridadi. I believe that the starting point is really to change our mindset. I think that is where the problem is. Obviously there is need to improve on the legislation that we have and I agree whole heartedly with that. We need to have stiffer penalties, we need to have an amendment to the provisions which say that the age of consent is 16 and we need that to be raised to 18 years. All those things have got to be done. We also need to have the mandatory sentences, I agree with that. However, if we do all that without a change of attitude, sometimes it does not make a very big difference because a lot of the time Mr. Speaker and here I am talking as a lawyer, you find that a lot of people will commit crimes simply because they do not think that they will be caught. No matter what kind of mandatory sentence you come up with or even if you say that there is going to be castration but if somebody believes that they are not going to be apprehended or convicted, they will not stop. I believe that this is the message that should go out that if you commit those crimes, firstly people are conscientised and sensitised so that you have got more and more reports being made and you have the police having the sort of attitude that they expeditiously deal with such reports so that the
suspects are apprehended expeditiously. We also need to increase our technology so that the rate of conviction also goes up. It is only then that you can then say you can seriously deal with the scourge.
I also want to say that when it comes to the issue of children and I want to thank Hon. Zindi who made reference to the CRC. I want to say that even here in Africa, we also have got the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child. In terms of the African Charter, it deals with the issue of economic and sexual exploitation of children. It also talks about the prohibition of marriage or betrothals involving children. It also talks about the prohibition of the use of children as beggars which are some of the things which result in the sexual exploitation of the young girls. It also talks about protection from pedophiles. I want to dwell on this aspect in extenso.
When you go to some of those countries where pornography is legal, there is a caveat. When it comes to child pornography it is a crime and just for watching child pornography, if you are apprehended, you actually go to jail. I want to give an example of one of the famous musicians, I think it is Gary Glitter – I am not 100% sure but there is a prominent musician who was arrested just for watching and not doing the abuse we are talking about here. Just for watching child pornography, you go to jail even in those jurisdictions where pornography or watching pornography is not a crime. A line is drawn in the sand that yes you can watch adults but you cannot watch children either being abused or engaging in such activities.
When it comes to the issue of homosexuals, I do not condone it but there are some of those countries where perhaps it is not illegal for people to be in a homosexual relationship. But when it comes to having a relationship with someone who is below the age of 18, that is a crime and it is really taken seriously. I want to say it is critical that we draw a distinction – yes people may have different views and attitudes about prostitution but there should be a no, no, no, where it involves children whether they are boys or girls it is a no, no, no. The only way we can do it is when we take some of these issues seriously.
I know that a lot of the Hon. Members have gone and I think for today for a change, we have actually gone beyond 6 o’clock and it is because it is an important motion and there are those of us who have decided that let us wait and debate this. Others have said let us listen to this. No one has even thought of saying do we have a quorum or we do not have a quorum. What is important is to ensure that we do justice to this very important motion. I want to take it a step further and say let us wind it up perhaps if it is possible so that concrete decision is done and the Hon. Minister is informed that she must appear before us here, make a Ministerial Statement and then we can interrogate her on what her
Ministry is supposed to have done. What they have done to the Katswe Sisterhood when actually they are dealing with people who are trying to protect the victims of this scourge and protecting those people who are the perpetrators. With these words, I want to once again thank you to Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga. I rest my case.
*HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, let me just add a few words. This is a good motion and since the other Chief Whip has debated, I believe it is a good thing for me to support him. I would want to say that when the law is being crafted, it should take on board some of the issues which I am going to highlight which cause this kind of a problem. We want to look at the positives and I would want to say that culture itself is very important. There was an Hon. Member who said that someone’s child is yours and if we were to treat them that way and we rebuke those that are wayward, I think it may help us a lot. Let us go back to our culture of yesteryear whereby if you saw an elderly person, whether it is a father or mother they were able to give advice to children despite them not being biological parents. We should go back to that scenario and we may be able to look after these children.
Children should be taught by the parents that whenever they see elders, they should respect them so that they are able to be remonstrated with. What may be a problem is our economy because you can find a father, mother, boys and girls sharing a room and a curtain just separates them. When the parents become intimate, the children also become interested. When they leave that house, they would also want to go and experiment. Most of the time the brother or sister will end up indulging in sex. Such issues should be looked into by the Government in order to address such kind of a situation. We had such a situation in my constituency where the father, mother, the son and daughter-in-law would sleep in the same room. We proposed that a two roomed house be constructed for them after we had observed that this is contrary to our
African culture. It was a difficult situation in terms of the way we live. Yes, there are certain situations that we find in our everyday life. The leadership, especially the Members of Parliament should also look and see how the electorate lives in the constituencies where they represent so that they can ensure that people are assisted either through social welfare. If we come up with laws then that might help us because they will know that there is now poverty which is causing these things and as a result children are now being abused.
As we deal with this case, we should also involve the church. The churches are still forcing children into child marriages. Arranged marriages are also becoming the order of the day in churches where false prophesy is rife and children are taken as girls in the name of the church. The law should be very strict and come up with deterrent sentences. It should be observed whether there are no such offenders in these churches especially those children of the ages that we are making reference to.
We heard earlier on that the children could become orphans and the last thing is that they will be looking for survival and how to look after themselves and they think that through that way they can raise 20c and be able to buy maputi and have water and eventually they become mischievous because sex is enjoyable. In the end they will lose their way. This is a difficult issue to deal with but the men are the most mischievous. The men are the chief culprits. There are those that believe in black magic and because they will not have learnt about business administration and accounting, they believe that if you have sexual intercourse with a small child you will have more money. They could be artisanal miners and who would believe in that. Education is power and through the media, we should be educating our people either on radio or on broadcasting forums. There should be a budget and not a fund to ensure that people are taught on how they live with their children.
They ought to know that they should give them a chance to grow because if you want chickens, you do not boil the eggs but you allow the eggs to hatch into chickens so that we can have these chickens. There are fathers and mothers who send their children to do that so that they can have an easy way of raising money which they would dispose of quickly. I have heard that there are women that will be a distance away observing their children raising the money.
At places like OK near Belvedere, there is a man who sends his children to school up to university level by going to that area to work. He wears rags and old clothes and would raise a lot of money to send his children to school. In the evening, he goes and looks for something different. We have different people such as the mothers. We need the DSNS or life imprisonment for people who do that. He is a man who will have done that. On castration, a lot of people are innocently serving time in jail. So, it is important that there be no castration.
We need to look at whatever will be done because once he is castrated, there is no way of reversing that process. We should have castration for men and also have strong needles and thread to sew women’s private parts because there are few women who are also abusing children. We used to have a woman in Gutu called Magumbo. She would be in her house and secondary school children stood in a queue waiting to service the woman. They had biscuits or a piece of soap that they left as payment. It is known and it is still happening up to now that Form Ones and Form Threes queue at different places in these areas. The boys would take ten minutes turns. So, we have wayward women who have made business out of this just as much as men are doing it. I am not attacking women, they have come up with a good motion but we should have laws that are equally applied. Let us sew their private parts, both the men and women and only leave a small portion so that they are able to urinate. This is a non political issue which needs to be supported.
We should agree on the urgency of the matter as a country so that the Government can intervene and assist so that all the children that are abused in such a manner get relief after an investigation of how best to tackle this issue. It is important to have statistics in our constituencies of potential victims so that the problem is nipped in the bud. I want to say that this is an important motion and we need not belabour the point. I would want to thank Mr. Speaker and the movers of the motion. They have helped the country and not themselves only. I thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: The fact that we have
other Members that are sitting here is a sign of the importance that they put onto this. I want to thank them very much. I know there are other Members who still wanted to debate but the reason why we are moving it is that we want to make sure that we can adopt it and we can have the
Minister coming in. I think if the Minister comes in for the Ministerial Statement, we will have an opportunity to have a proper conversation.
So the debate and discussion can still continue. I know that Members have stayed for a long time and I will not keep them by going back to a proper rounding off except to just thank you and to hope that we adopt the motion and that we immediately call the Minister to come and give a
Ministerial Statement and give other Hon. Members an opportunity to engage with the Minister directly. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move that the motion that;
ALARMED by the number of children who are reported to be abused under the “guise” of selling sex.
CONCERNED that Government’s response has been targeted at those that have exposed this evil practice.
NOW THEREFORE calls upon the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to immediately give a Ministerial Statement on this matter.
AND FURTHER calls upon the Inter-Ministerial Task Force set by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to expeditiously investigate the matter and report be tabled in Parliament
by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, be now adopted.
Motion put and adopted.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON. RUNGANI, the House adjourned at Twenty-Four Minutes past Six
o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 21st September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a Non-Adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill (H. B. 19, 2016).
INVITATION TO THE WALK OF LIFE SPONSORED WALK
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that Hon. Members are cordially invited to the Walk of Life, a sponsored walk organised by the Passengers Association of Zimbabwe which seeks to sensitise every person on road traffic accidents. The event will take place at Harare Gardens, between 1430 and 1600 hours, on Saturday, 30th September 2017. Hon Members interested in participating in the event should register with the Public Relations Department.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE INSOLVENCY BILL [H.B.11, 2016]
ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE
PRESIDENT MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. C SIBANDA) on behalf of THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
- MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the Insolvency Bill [H.B. 11, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE ESTATES ADMINISTRATORS
AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 8, 2016] ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE on behalf of THE VICE PRESIDENT
AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY
AFFAIRS: I move the motion standing in my name that the Estates Administrators Bill [H.B. 8, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order
No. 161 (1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 3 and
4 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the
Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS.
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SHAMU: I rise to join Hon. D. M. Ncube in speaking to
His Excellency, the President’s Speech and may I begin by thanking Hon. Ncube for eloquently moving the motion with the support of his seconder Hon. Mlilo paved the way for us to contribute our thoughts to the speech which was delivered by the President of the Republic of
Zimbabwe, Cde R. G. Mugabe, Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe
Defence Forces, Grandmaster of the Zimbabwe Order of Merit at the Official Opening of the 8th Session of Parliament.
I would like just to start by going back in history. In an article written in the year 1982 for the 1982 Britannica Book of the Year by His Excellency, the President R. G. Mugabe then being the Prime Minister of
Zimbabwe. His Excellency wrote and I would like to quote “when in
1652 Jan Van Riebeeck representing the Dutch East India Company landed on the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa and laid the foundation of a future Dutch Cape colony, no one would have foreseen that the process thus begun would assume such proportions 250 years later.
It engulfed in successive stages not just the Cape Colony, but also the Orange Free State, the Transvaal, Basutoland, Switzerland Bechuanaland, Southern Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia. The national liberation struggle that transformed Southern Rhodesia into Zimbabwe was an event in this process and was the sum of many linked events.” Mr. Speaker Sir, the question is why am I making this quotation at this point in time. I would like to emphasise that His Excellency’s observation was correct then. His Excellency’s thoughts, conclusions and guidance are still correct today. Let us, with speed and vigour, align our laws to the Constitution of Zimbabwe as we seek to fulfil the aspirations of the heroic people of Zimbabwe as expressed during the constitution outreach campaign. An important link in the revolutionary process and road that we have chosen for our nation. Mr. Speaker, what I will avoid doing in my contribution is to deal with any one specific area of concern as outlined by His Excellency the President. I feel that was well done by Hon. Ncube and Hon. Mlilo, the mover and seconder of the motion respectively.
However, I believe that the opportunity for me to thoroughly debate specific areas that relate to the alignment of our laws to the Constitution will avail itself as the 30 Acts remaining for alignment will be brought before this august House.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what I believe is important at this juncture is to underscore the fact that whatever we do in our country relates in one way or the other to global trends. The world is indeed a global village. It is important for us to be reminded that a tiny elite of countries and multinational corporations control in an authoritarian fashion the destinies of the world, its economies and its natural resources.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a handful of imperial powers impose their will on us, sanctions on progressive governments like the Zimbabwean Government. They plot against us, and impose prices on the world at will. In this our journey, as we struggle for economic freedom, the deepening and strengthening of our right to be masters of our own destiny is anchored on control of our natural resources. His Excellency, Cde. R.G. Mugabe is the champion of that noble cause.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is my fervent hope that the hard work, absolute commitment and diligence called for by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. R. G. Mugabe, will produce robust and well informed debates that will say ‘no’ to the wealth of this country being concentrated in the hands of a few that will not allow economic and social inequality among social classes to grow.
Mr. Speaker Sir, food, water, shelter, and justice must be for all our people and all these aspects are carried within the concepts of what His Excellency said we must discuss during this debate.
In the past, we were colonized and enslaved. Our stolen labour built empires in the countries of our erstwhile colonisers. Now, we are politically liberated.
Now, with every step we take in our quest for the total liberation of
Zimbabwe; let it be for the benefit of every Zimbabwean, young and old.
In aligning the laws of this country with the Constitution, we must do it bearing in mind that it is being done with the interests of the people as the main objective.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this is the Zimbabwe we have and no other. The whole population of our country are the people of Zimbabwe and no other. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Allow me to begin by thanking His Excellency, Cde R.G Mugabe for an impressive
Official Opening Speech of the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the activities for this last Session has been clearly elaborated by the President and it is now our duty to perform. The
President talked about a lot of Bills that are going to come to this august House. Of the things which the President talked about, I am only going to look at three of them, that is the Cooperative Society Amendment Bill which happens to fall under the Ministry of SMEs, the Motor Vehicle
Accident Fund and the Teaching Profession Council.
The Teaching Profession Council seeks to regulate and promote ethical conduct within the profession. When this council comes into being, it will standardise the profession bearing in mind that teachers are very important people in the society. Mr. Speaker Sir, you know very well as a teacher how important the job is, to enlighten even the legislators who are here who happen to have passed through these teachers. I therefore, commend the President for having that in the pipeline to have a council which will regulate this teaching profession.
It is therefore important to ring-fence the profession from nonteachers like in any other profession. So, the teaching council will become the regulatory authority or a regulatory board which will be allowed to de-register those who would be found wanting, which is a very important thing if that is brought into being.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I know like I have said, even the President is a teacher by profession, when he considered bringing the teaching council to Parliament to be regulated as a body, he knew very well that the profession has to be regulated. We have, like I have said, enlightened a lot of people as a profession and we have managed to make everybody be organised, if not all legislators here, who happen to have passed through teachers.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will take this opportunity to thank teachers from my constituency who have worked tirelessly to make children pass. Some of the schools that I have here have actually scooped prices at district level. Allow me Hon. Members, Mr. Speaker Sir, to mention just a few of them in recognition of their work. That is Gokwe St. Agnes Primary School, my former school, which has even groomed me to become a Head in my previous work experience. I would also mention Muyambi Primary School, Sengwa Primary School, Zhombe
Primary School, Mapfumo Primary School, Ngondoma Primary School,
Gavave Primary School, Gwehava Primary School, Nyaradza Primary
School, Rumhumha Primary School, Mateta 1 Primary School, Ndhlalambi and others.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I also thank the health institutions in my constituency, especially Gokwe Hospital staff for the sterling work despite limited resources, and not forgetting other Government departments who through their hard work have seen Gokwe growing.
Mr. Speaker Sir, His Excellency the President also mentioned the coming of the Motor Vehicle Fund, an important fund if put into being. Some people have been disabled due to these accidents and it is important that they continue to earn a living through the fund.
I would like to look at my last point here which happens to be the Cooperatives Society Amendment Bill that His Excellency the President mentioned in his speech. If amended, this will give it teeth since currently most cooperators are being swindled of their hard-earned cash. So if it is amended, I think, it will make people accountable for the monies that they collect through these cooperatives.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you once again for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to the President’s Speech.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir,
for giving me the opportunity to make a contribution in regard to the speech on the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament of Zimbabwe that was made by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. R. G. Mugabe.
First and foremost, I would like to thank the mover of the motion Hon. D. M. Ncube and his seconder, Hon. Mlilo. I would also like to thank the honourable House for its high standard of discipline during the course of the delivery of the speech by the President of the Republic.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the President covered a lot of areas of attention in regard to the nature or the tasks that Parliament has to undertake during the last session but I am going to touch on a few items in order to give others leeway to make contributions in other areas.
On good corporate governance issues, we welcome the introduction of the Public Entities and Corporate Governance Bill which will usher in a new culture of how we do business in Zimbabwe especially in State owned enterprises which are SOEs. Hopefully, we would like to believe the culture is going to cascade down into the private sector so that at least we have good governance practices from
Government to the private sector. The Bill put emphasis on prevention as opposed to cure and indeed, the best way of fighting corruption is to prevent it in the first place by putting in place prohibitive systems that will discourage corrupt practices. In other words, we have seen that the Bill is poised at a systems approach where it is impossible for an officer to engage in corrupt practices because detection will be much earlier than the offender expects.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my experience is that prosecution alone may not effectively prevent corruption. What is important is for us as a nation to expose situations where corruption is committed. In this regard, I would like to call upon the Anti-corruption Commission, the police, security services and the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) to take the lead in the fight against corruption. I would also like to urge the newly promoted Prosecutor-General, Mr. Ray Goba, to put his hands to task. Currently, we have problems with cases on corruption that are yet to be finalised. We are saying as Zimbabweans, we should shun corruption.
Mr. Speaker Sir, His Excellency the President of the Republic was also concerned about the death rate on our roads. The continued loss of lives on our roads due to road traffic accidents is a cause for concern and each and every Zimbabwean is equally worried. The establishment of the Motor Vehicle Accident Funds will of cause go a long way in ameliorating the situation but it will not cure it. What is important is to change the attitude of our motoring public. How do we do it?
We are saying, Mr. Speaker Sir, the Traffic Council of Zimbabwe, the police and other stakeholders should carry out a sustained awareness campaign to educate drivers on the importance of life. We would also like to applaud the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural
Development for coming up with a new Highway Code. We would like to urge the motoring public, driving schools and all those who are exposed to our roads to familiarise themselves with it so that we make our roads safer.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to reiterate and say that the prosecution of offenders alone will not solve the problem. Even the police should be inclined towards educating members of the public as opposed to prosecution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also like to touch on the aspect of antihuman trafficking that is now a bother within the region and beyond. The problem of trafficking in persons should also be tackled with commitment and zeal taking into consideration disturbing experiences of our fellow Zimbabweans who have come from afar narrating their disturbing encounters. We, however, take comfort in the fact that the Government of Zimbabwe in that regard, has come up with a strategic plan called the Zimbabwe Trafficking in Persons National Plan of Action (NAPLAC), whose focus is to ensure a society that is free from trafficking in persons.
On that score, Mr. Speaker Sir, we would like to congratulate the Ministry of Home Affairs for taking the lead in this regard. We are aware that on the 9th of September this year, there was an awareness drive that was carried out in Bulawayo on how we could prevent trafficking-in-persons.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the proliferation of firearms, that is the spreading of firearms, we are happy and we welcome the protocol against the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking firearms and the parts thereof. We believe that by reducing firearms that are in private hands, our country can be safer than it is at the present moment. I am also happy that in Zimbabwe, we have effective measures that we have taken to control possession, use and the manufacture of firearms. I would like to believe that if countries which are within the region and those beyond, commit themselves in that direction, we will have a relatively peaceful region where the commission of crimes, use of firearms is quite absent. Mr. Speaker Sir, our region can be safer with fewer firearms in private hands as compared to the situation that is obtaining at the present moment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my speech cannot be complete without highlighting our fears on cyber-crime management. This is a new phenomenon, but I would like to believe that the introduction of the Bill is going to open our eyes. It is going to open the eyes of those who are dealing with security related matters so that at least, we are safe and secure in the area of cyber crime and cyber security. Mr. Speaker Sir, we urge those stakeholders who are involved - including the police, the Anti Corruption Commission and the National Prosecuting Authority to be conversant with this Bill because it is going to enable us to deal with cyber crime. This is because it is going to enable us to deal with the nature of crimes associated with cyber crime.
Lastly, I would like to thank Hon. Members in this august House on the day the President of Zimbabwe presented his speech. More especially, I give credit to Hon. Members to Hon. Members from the opposite side, the MDC, they were quite disciplined and we would like that type of – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – uniformity to continue. This is because Hon. Members, we started this Parliament not moving in the same direction, but I have seen that there is now coherence and we are moving in the same direction. I hope that next time, if the same type of Hon. Members is brought to Parliament, then the Ninth Parliament of Zimbabwe will be one of the best. I would like to thank you.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Firstly, I would like to thank our President, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe who is also the Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces, the First
Secretary of the party which has good leadership in Zimbabwe, ZANU PF. I would also like to thank Hon. Ncube and Hon. Mlilo for their debate in support of the Presidential Speech.
To begin with, the speech that was given by the President supports the 10-Point Plan which he gave us. If you listen attentively to his speech, you would realise that he covered many areas. However, I will say a few things on what I have heard and seen, based on the
Presidential Speech. The President spoke about the amendment of the Labour Law. In the past two years, most employees were dismissed from their work. Those who have read today’s news have seen that there were also 300 Air Zimbabwe employees who were fired without a reasonable cause. We also have some workers who were fired as a result of company closure and they were dismissed and yet they have been dismissed a long time back as they were not getting their salaries. This was done so that they would not be paid their accumulating salaries. For example, workers from David Whitehead, even to date, eight years have lapsed and they have not yet been given their salaries. We would like the amendment to provide for these anomalies so that these workers will get paid their money.
I would also like to take a closer look at the Bill which the President spoke about, the Shop Licences Amendment Bill, which is yet to come. Mr. Speaker Sir, there is chaos in our cities, towns and growth points as people are selling their wares everywhere. One cannot freely move across pavements because vendors are selling their wares everywhere. They are no longer following by-laws because the laws which are there are not clear. Many council officials are confiscating people’s wares which they will be selling and some of these things are not returned, they are stolen. People are unable to recover their wares which would have been confiscated by the municipal police when they claim them back. We have also seen people selling on the shop-owners’ doors. The shop owners’ paid licences but you find someone selling at the front of their shops selling the same wares that are in the shops, because the law is not clear on how to handle those people. Also councils are not availing market places for those people to sell their wares. If they are availing places, they avail them where there is no business and where there are no volumes of people. There is war between the vendors and councils.
I believe that the law that is going to be brought in is going to look into that. We also see many people who are looking for licences and they are not getting them. They are not getting them because of debts which are owed by the owners of the businesses. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also want to talk about cooperatives which the President talked about. The cooperatives are the backbone of building houses in Zimbabwe because they have constructed many houses. We want the new law to give more powers to the cooperatives to work properly without stealing people’s money and without shortchanging the people when building houses.
Many constitutions of cooperatives are not clear because there are two Ministries which are involved. One day they are supposed to report to the Ministry of Local Government and the other day they are supposed to report to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises. I think this law is going to clarify on how they are supposed to operate.
Also looking at the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill, there is chaos in the mines out there. Our youths because of lack of employment, you find them working underground, but there is no compensation when they get hurt or maimed. The Government is getting a lot of money from gold but those who are mining the gold are not being remunerated well and also their health is not important.
When they are injured, they are told to look into that for themselves. He also talked about teachers - someone talked about it. I was a teacher for 25 years and children used to pass very well. We would get awards for that. Going back to the teachers, you see that teachers are getting a raw deal. Even their remuneration is not good. Most of our leaders came from the teaching profession and even many politicians were once teachers. So, we want this law to empower the teachers out there so that they will be happy and enjoy doing their work, because they are engaged in teaching children, the future leaders. The Teaching Profession Council, we want those who get into that Council to be professionals who know about teaching and that Council should not have corrupt people.
Finally, I want to talk about the issue that really pains me which the President talked about concerning young children who are being raped. Raping young children causes a lot of things. I want to touch on other things that I am coming across in my constituency. My constituency has a place where people share one room since the Second World War in 1945. Those people still use communal toilets up to now. Those houses are called GBs, which means General Barracks. They were for soldiers and some of them are called SQs, which means Single Quarters. You can imagine - since 1945 up today, we have not revamped those houses.
I want to talk about the raping of minors because children are sharing the same bedroom with old people. This is causing despondency upon families. We should look at those children and those families. The toilets which are communal do not have doors that someone closes when they are using them. Old people, be it the father or the mother, it is the same toilet that is used by the minors. When the children get into the toilet, the elders also get into that toilet. We tried to revamp those toilets.
I had left that I was the Mayor for Kadoma for two terms and winning resoundingly. I revamped those toilets and those houses. Since I left, nothing has been done and there is no improvement at all. So, I urge the Government to remove that which causes people to rape children so that the people do not share toilets and houses, not only in Kadoma but everywhere countrywide. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to
contribute towards the Presidential Speech that the President announced in this august House, setting the agenda for us as legislators on this Fifth Session. There are many points that His Excellency touched on. I am going to touch on just a few issues of concern. The President spoke about the success of Command Agriculture. I was impressed that the other day while I was reading the newspaper, I discovered that one million tons of maize was delivered to the GMB.
Mr. Speaker, there are few things that we need to polish on the Command Agriculture issues. It is a good initiative but I think it would be better for the farmers to receive the inputs on time in order for the
Command Agriculture to be successful. The last time what happened Mr. Speaker was that some farmers did not receive adequate fertilizer on time and some farmers did not receive the inputs on time. So I think when the President alluded to the success of the Command Agriculture Programme, I think it is wise for us to try and encourage the Executive to make sure that these inputs are there on time.
Mr. Speaker, we know that we have four seasons a year. This time we are expecting a lot of rain but if the rain does not come and our dams are still silted the way they are, we are going to face a challenge of water. I think as Hon. Members of Parliament, we need to encourage our community on water harvesting.
Mr. Speaker, the President also spoke about the Estate
Administrations Amendment Bill. There are issues that are happening when people pass away. Some of these issues affect our relatives, our people and the general public where corruption seems to take the lead. Corruption is also in the offices of Government. Why do I say that? If one person agrees to do something which is not right, I think with this Amendment Bill coming to this House, we need to debate and scrutinize the Bill so that these issues of corruption will be dealt with.
Mr. Speaker, in the ease of doing business in this country, out of 190 countries on the World Bank report, we are on 161. Due to the bureaucracy that is in place, we still do not have the one stop shop. When foreigners come into this country and want to invest, there is no one stop shop. So, we need to look at that.
Mr. Speaker, the Public Entities Corporate Governance Bill is a very important Bill and I feel that the sooner this Bill comes to this House and debate on it, the better it will be. We would not have issues like what happened in the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development with Professor Gudyanga where he chairs all the boards and he has no one who oversees him. It becomes a real problem especially in terms of corporate governance.
Mr. Speaker, the Land Developers Bill, we read in the papers a lot of issues that are taking place, especially to do with land. You find that people are buying land and are being quote as third parties, where things are not clear. As a result, you find that a person loses his money, the land or houses are demolished. So, the sooner this Bill comes to this House, I think we as Hon. Members of Parliament should debate it robustly and make sure that there is no loophole that would be left open.
Mr. Speaker, with the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill, there is a big challenge. It is still a one size fits all. When we say one size fits all, whether you are a small miner, medium miner or large miner, it is
the same laws. This is where there are a lot of challenges. Out there where we have a lot of artisanal miners, they do not even understand the content that is in the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill. We need to try and see how best we will be able to go out and teach the people and try and get an understanding of where it becomes a win-win situation.
The biggest challenge that we face in the Exploration and Marketing Corporation Bill, marketing and beneficiation go together, exploration and mining go together. Now, when we put it together, it looks like we want to get rid of some of the boards because somebody has put his hand in the MMCZ, which was the only entity of Government which makes good profit, good money and is able to sustain itself. The biggest challenge that we are facing Mr. Speaker is that although it is the same value chain, it becomes a bit of a problem if we do not separate those two. If we keep them together, we are now duplicating the MMCZ Act. If we are going to duplicate the MMCZ
Act, it means one is going to override the other. I feel that we need to work out a situation where the beneficiation and marketing go together, the exploration and mining go together.
Mr. Speaker, on the Gold Trade Act and the Precious Stones Act, that is one of the very sore and sad stories where you find a person is caught with 3 grams and is sentenced to five years in prison or caught with emeralds that have no value and is sentenced to three years mandatory yet a lot of people got away with diamonds worth $15 billion and no one was ever sent to jail for that $15 billion. Therefore, on this Gold Trade Act and Precious Stones Act, Mr. Speaker we need to look at the way we are going to deal with this because some of the sentences are far too harsh, especially for the artisanal miners. Artisanal miners are people who are basically trying to make a living. The President spoke about decriminalising them but here we are playing cat and mouse chasing them, catching them and putting them in for five years at the taxpayers’ money. It becomes a sad story. So we need to look at that in a robust way.
Mr. Speaker, before you licence your vehicle, you have to get an insurance. Most of the Members of Parliament and people out there, just buy third party insurance. I do not understand why we have the third party insurance when it does not even cover for accident victims, road disasters and stuff like that. I am glad that there is a vehicle accident fund but I think we need to scrap the third party insurance because we are now duplicating. It is just a way of taking money away from us because by the end of the day, no one in this august House or out there has actually benefited from third party insurance. It is just a rip-off.
Mr. Speaker, I am not going to say much. His Excellency spoke to us as Parliamentarians and he said that we need to be well informed in order for us to give robust debates. The problem with us here in Parliament is we are not punctual, disciplined and there is a problem especially from Ministers that were appointed. Some do not even come here and we do not even know what they look like. We see them in the newspapers only. We need to see them here in order for us to talk to them. The reason why we can talk to these Ministers is so that when they talk to us, they lead by example that they have come here, we get understanding. If there is something we do not understand, we find a way of finding each other so that we can go out there and give the right message, but the problem is we play cat and mouse. There is always an excuse. Some Members of Parliament just come here to mark the register and walk out, which is short changing the general people out there who actually elected us to come here.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to encourage the Members of Parliament to try and be honest with themselves, to come on time, to be also well disciplined and to make sure that when we are debating we should not be like hooligans making noise in this House. We should be able to understand each other like what happened when His Excellency was here. Mr. Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER
ADVERSE AND NON- ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED
FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): I
have to inform the House that I have received the following from the
Parliamentary Legal Committee: Adverse report on the Shop Licence
Amendment Bill [H.B.10, 2016], Non- Adverse report on Statutory
Instrument 79, 80-85 and 87 published during the month of July, 2017, Non-Adverse report on General Notices 315439 published during the month of July, 2017 and the Adverse Report on Statutory Instrument 74 published during the month of July, 2017.
HON RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 26th September, 2017.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON PROMOTION OF FAIR
REGIONAL AND GENDER REPRESENTATION IN THE AWARD
OF TENDERS ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the motion
standing in my name that the motion on Fair Regional Representation which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARIDADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the House do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Hon. Adv. Chamisa having stood up to debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. May you resume your seat? I have asked whether you were in agreement but you were seated until I stood up. I cannot reverse that.
Motion put and agreed to.
The National Assembly adjourned at Half past Three o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday, 26th September, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 21st September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a Non-Adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill (H. B. 19, 2016).
INVITATION TO THE WALK OF LIFE SPONSORED WALK
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that Hon. Members are cordially invited to the Walk of Life, a sponsored walk organised by the Passengers Association of Zimbabwe which seeks to sensitise every person on road traffic accidents. The event will take place at Harare Gardens, between 1430 and 1600 hours, on Saturday, 30th September 2017. Hon Members interested in participating in the event should register with the Public Relations Department.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE INSOLVENCY BILL [H.B.11, 2016]
ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE
PRESIDENT MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. C SIBANDA) on behalf of THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E.
- MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the Insolvency Bill [H.B. 11, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE ESTATES ADMINISTRATORS
AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 8, 2016] ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE on behalf of THE VICE PRESIDENT
AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY
AFFAIRS: I move the motion standing in my name that the Estates Administrators Bill [H.B. 8, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order
No. 161 (1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 3 and
4 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the
Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS.
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SHAMU: I rise to join Hon. D. M. Ncube in speaking to
His Excellency, the President’s Speech and may I begin by thanking Hon. Ncube for eloquently moving the motion with the support of his seconder Hon. Mlilo paved the way for us to contribute our thoughts to the speech which was delivered by the President of the Republic of
Zimbabwe, Cde R. G. Mugabe, Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe
Defence Forces, Grandmaster of the Zimbabwe Order of Merit at the Official Opening of the 8th Session of Parliament.
I would like just to start by going back in history. In an article written in the year 1982 for the 1982 Britannica Book of the Year by His Excellency, the President R. G. Mugabe then being the Prime Minister of
Zimbabwe. His Excellency wrote and I would like to quote “when in
1652 Jan Van Riebeeck representing the Dutch East India Company landed on the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa and laid the foundation of a future Dutch Cape colony, no one would have foreseen that the process thus begun would assume such proportions 250 years later.
It engulfed in successive stages not just the Cape Colony, but also the Orange Free State, the Transvaal, Basutoland, Switzerland Bechuanaland, Southern Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia. The national liberation struggle that transformed Southern Rhodesia into Zimbabwe was an event in this process and was the sum of many linked events.” Mr. Speaker Sir, the question is why am I making this quotation at this point in time. I would like to emphasise that His Excellency’s observation was correct then. His Excellency’s thoughts, conclusions and guidance are still correct today. Let us, with speed and vigour, align our laws to the Constitution of Zimbabwe as we seek to fulfil the aspirations of the heroic people of Zimbabwe as expressed during the constitution outreach campaign. An important link in the revolutionary process and road that we have chosen for our nation. Mr. Speaker, what I will avoid doing in my contribution is to deal with any one specific area of concern as outlined by His Excellency the President. I feel that was well done by Hon. Ncube and Hon. Mlilo, the mover and seconder of the motion respectively.
However, I believe that the opportunity for me to thoroughly debate specific areas that relate to the alignment of our laws to the Constitution will avail itself as the 30 Acts remaining for alignment will be brought before this august House.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what I believe is important at this juncture is to underscore the fact that whatever we do in our country relates in one way or the other to global trends. The world is indeed a global village. It is important for us to be reminded that a tiny elite of countries and multinational corporations control in an authoritarian fashion the destinies of the world, its economies and its natural resources.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a handful of imperial powers impose their will on us, sanctions on progressive governments like the Zimbabwean Government. They plot against us, and impose prices on the world at will. In this our journey, as we struggle for economic freedom, the deepening and strengthening of our right to be masters of our own destiny is anchored on control of our natural resources. His Excellency, Cde. R.G. Mugabe is the champion of that noble cause.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is my fervent hope that the hard work, absolute commitment and diligence called for by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. R. G. Mugabe, will produce robust and well informed debates that will say ‘no’ to the wealth of this country being concentrated in the hands of a few that will not allow economic and social inequality among social classes to grow.
Mr. Speaker Sir, food, water, shelter, and justice must be for all our people and all these aspects are carried within the concepts of what His Excellency said we must discuss during this debate.
In the past, we were colonized and enslaved. Our stolen labour built empires in the countries of our erstwhile colonisers. Now, we are politically liberated.
Now, with every step we take in our quest for the total liberation of
Zimbabwe; let it be for the benefit of every Zimbabwean, young and old.
In aligning the laws of this country with the Constitution, we must do it bearing in mind that it is being done with the interests of the people as the main objective.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this is the Zimbabwe we have and no other. The whole population of our country are the people of Zimbabwe and no other. I thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Allow me to begin by thanking His Excellency, Cde R.G Mugabe for an impressive
Official Opening Speech of the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the activities for this last Session has been clearly elaborated by the President and it is now our duty to perform. The
President talked about a lot of Bills that are going to come to this august House. Of the things which the President talked about, I am only going to look at three of them, that is the Cooperative Society Amendment Bill which happens to fall under the Ministry of SMEs, the Motor Vehicle
Accident Fund and the Teaching Profession Council.
The Teaching Profession Council seeks to regulate and promote ethical conduct within the profession. When this council comes into being, it will standardise the profession bearing in mind that teachers are very important people in the society. Mr. Speaker Sir, you know very well as a teacher how important the job is, to enlighten even the legislators who are here who happen to have passed through these teachers. I therefore, commend the President for having that in the pipeline to have a council which will regulate this teaching profession.
It is therefore important to ring-fence the profession from nonteachers like in any other profession. So, the teaching council will become the regulatory authority or a regulatory board which will be allowed to de-register those who would be found wanting, which is a very important thing if that is brought into being.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I know like I have said, even the President is a teacher by profession, when he considered bringing the teaching council to Parliament to be regulated as a body, he knew very well that the profession has to be regulated. We have, like I have said, enlightened a lot of people as a profession and we have managed to make everybody be organised, if not all legislators here, who happen to have passed through teachers.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will take this opportunity to thank teachers from my constituency who have worked tirelessly to make children pass. Some of the schools that I have here have actually scooped prices at district level. Allow me Hon. Members, Mr. Speaker Sir, to mention just a few of them in recognition of their work. That is Gokwe St. Agnes Primary School, my former school, which has even groomed me to become a Head in my previous work experience. I would also mention Muyambi Primary School, Sengwa Primary School, Zhombe
Primary School, Mapfumo Primary School, Ngondoma Primary School,
Gavave Primary School, Gwehava Primary School, Nyaradza Primary
School, Rumhumha Primary School, Mateta 1 Primary School, Ndhlalambi and others.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I also thank the health institutions in my constituency, especially Gokwe Hospital staff for the sterling work despite limited resources, and not forgetting other Government departments who through their hard work have seen Gokwe growing.
Mr. Speaker Sir, His Excellency the President also mentioned the coming of the Motor Vehicle Fund, an important fund if put into being. Some people have been disabled due to these accidents and it is important that they continue to earn a living through the fund.
I would like to look at my last point here which happens to be the Cooperatives Society Amendment Bill that His Excellency the President mentioned in his speech. If amended, this will give it teeth since currently most cooperators are being swindled of their hard-earned cash. So if it is amended, I think, it will make people accountable for the monies that they collect through these cooperatives.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you once again for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to the President’s Speech.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir,
for giving me the opportunity to make a contribution in regard to the speech on the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament of Zimbabwe that was made by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Cde. R. G. Mugabe.
First and foremost, I would like to thank the mover of the motion Hon. D. M. Ncube and his seconder, Hon. Mlilo. I would also like to thank the honourable House for its high standard of discipline during the course of the delivery of the speech by the President of the Republic.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the President covered a lot of areas of attention in regard to the nature or the tasks that Parliament has to undertake during the last session but I am going to touch on a few items in order to give others leeway to make contributions in other areas.
On good corporate governance issues, we welcome the introduction of the Public Entities and Corporate Governance Bill which will usher in a new culture of how we do business in Zimbabwe especially in State owned enterprises which are SOEs. Hopefully, we would like to believe the culture is going to cascade down into the private sector so that at least we have good governance practices from
Government to the private sector. The Bill put emphasis on prevention as opposed to cure and indeed, the best way of fighting corruption is to prevent it in the first place by putting in place prohibitive systems that will discourage corrupt practices. In other words, we have seen that the Bill is poised at a systems approach where it is impossible for an officer to engage in corrupt practices because detection will be much earlier than the offender expects.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my experience is that prosecution alone may not effectively prevent corruption. What is important is for us as a nation to expose situations where corruption is committed. In this regard, I would like to call upon the Anti-corruption Commission, the police, security services and the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) to take the lead in the fight against corruption. I would also like to urge the newly promoted Prosecutor-General, Mr. Ray Goba, to put his hands to task. Currently, we have problems with cases on corruption that are yet to be finalised. We are saying as Zimbabweans, we should shun corruption.
Mr. Speaker Sir, His Excellency the President of the Republic was also concerned about the death rate on our roads. The continued loss of lives on our roads due to road traffic accidents is a cause for concern and each and every Zimbabwean is equally worried. The establishment of the Motor Vehicle Accident Funds will of cause go a long way in ameliorating the situation but it will not cure it. What is important is to change the attitude of our motoring public. How do we do it?
We are saying, Mr. Speaker Sir, the Traffic Council of Zimbabwe, the police and other stakeholders should carry out a sustained awareness campaign to educate drivers on the importance of life. We would also like to applaud the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural
Development for coming up with a new Highway Code. We would like to urge the motoring public, driving schools and all those who are exposed to our roads to familiarise themselves with it so that we make our roads safer.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to reiterate and say that the prosecution of offenders alone will not solve the problem. Even the police should be inclined towards educating members of the public as opposed to prosecution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also like to touch on the aspect of antihuman trafficking that is now a bother within the region and beyond. The problem of trafficking in persons should also be tackled with commitment and zeal taking into consideration disturbing experiences of our fellow Zimbabweans who have come from afar narrating their disturbing encounters. We, however, take comfort in the fact that the Government of Zimbabwe in that regard, has come up with a strategic plan called the Zimbabwe Trafficking in Persons National Plan of Action (NAPLAC), whose focus is to ensure a society that is free from trafficking in persons.
On that score, Mr. Speaker Sir, we would like to congratulate the Ministry of Home Affairs for taking the lead in this regard. We are aware that on the 9th of September this year, there was an awareness drive that was carried out in Bulawayo on how we could prevent trafficking-in-persons.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the proliferation of firearms, that is the spreading of firearms, we are happy and we welcome the protocol against the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking firearms and the parts thereof. We believe that by reducing firearms that are in private hands, our country can be safer than it is at the present moment. I am also happy that in Zimbabwe, we have effective measures that we have taken to control possession, use and the manufacture of firearms. I would like to believe that if countries which are within the region and those beyond, commit themselves in that direction, we will have a relatively peaceful region where the commission of crimes, use of firearms is quite absent. Mr. Speaker Sir, our region can be safer with fewer firearms in private hands as compared to the situation that is obtaining at the present moment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my speech cannot be complete without highlighting our fears on cyber-crime management. This is a new phenomenon, but I would like to believe that the introduction of the Bill is going to open our eyes. It is going to open the eyes of those who are dealing with security related matters so that at least, we are safe and secure in the area of cyber crime and cyber security. Mr. Speaker Sir, we urge those stakeholders who are involved - including the police, the Anti Corruption Commission and the National Prosecuting Authority to be conversant with this Bill because it is going to enable us to deal with cyber crime. This is because it is going to enable us to deal with the nature of crimes associated with cyber crime.
Lastly, I would like to thank Hon. Members in this august House on the day the President of Zimbabwe presented his speech. More especially, I give credit to Hon. Members to Hon. Members from the opposite side, the MDC, they were quite disciplined and we would like that type of – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – uniformity to continue. This is because Hon. Members, we started this Parliament not moving in the same direction, but I have seen that there is now coherence and we are moving in the same direction. I hope that next time, if the same type of Hon. Members is brought to Parliament, then the Ninth Parliament of Zimbabwe will be one of the best. I would like to thank you.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Firstly, I would like to thank our President, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe who is also the Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces, the First
Secretary of the party which has good leadership in Zimbabwe, ZANU PF. I would also like to thank Hon. Ncube and Hon. Mlilo for their debate in support of the Presidential Speech.
To begin with, the speech that was given by the President supports the 10-Point Plan which he gave us. If you listen attentively to his speech, you would realise that he covered many areas. However, I will say a few things on what I have heard and seen, based on the
Presidential Speech. The President spoke about the amendment of the Labour Law. In the past two years, most employees were dismissed from their work. Those who have read today’s news have seen that there were also 300 Air Zimbabwe employees who were fired without a reasonable cause. We also have some workers who were fired as a result of company closure and they were dismissed and yet they have been dismissed a long time back as they were not getting their salaries. This was done so that they would not be paid their accumulating salaries. For example, workers from David Whitehead, even to date, eight years have lapsed and they have not yet been given their salaries. We would like the amendment to provide for these anomalies so that these workers will get paid their money.
I would also like to take a closer look at the Bill which the President spoke about, the Shop Licences Amendment Bill, which is yet to come. Mr. Speaker Sir, there is chaos in our cities, towns and growth points as people are selling their wares everywhere. One cannot freely move across pavements because vendors are selling their wares everywhere. They are no longer following by-laws because the laws which are there are not clear. Many council officials are confiscating people’s wares which they will be selling and some of these things are not returned, they are stolen. People are unable to recover their wares which would have been confiscated by the municipal police when they claim them back. We have also seen people selling on the shop-owners’ doors. The shop owners’ paid licences but you find someone selling at the front of their shops selling the same wares that are in the shops, because the law is not clear on how to handle those people. Also councils are not availing market places for those people to sell their wares. If they are availing places, they avail them where there is no business and where there are no volumes of people. There is war between the vendors and councils.
I believe that the law that is going to be brought in is going to look into that. We also see many people who are looking for licences and they are not getting them. They are not getting them because of debts which are owed by the owners of the businesses. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also want to talk about cooperatives which the President talked about. The cooperatives are the backbone of building houses in Zimbabwe because they have constructed many houses. We want the new law to give more powers to the cooperatives to work properly without stealing people’s money and without shortchanging the people when building houses.
Many constitutions of cooperatives are not clear because there are two Ministries which are involved. One day they are supposed to report to the Ministry of Local Government and the other day they are supposed to report to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises. I think this law is going to clarify on how they are supposed to operate.
Also looking at the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill, there is chaos in the mines out there. Our youths because of lack of employment, you find them working underground, but there is no compensation when they get hurt or maimed. The Government is getting a lot of money from gold but those who are mining the gold are not being remunerated well and also their health is not important.
When they are injured, they are told to look into that for themselves. He also talked about teachers - someone talked about it. I was a teacher for 25 years and children used to pass very well. We would get awards for that. Going back to the teachers, you see that teachers are getting a raw deal. Even their remuneration is not good. Most of our leaders came from the teaching profession and even many politicians were once teachers. So, we want this law to empower the teachers out there so that they will be happy and enjoy doing their work, because they are engaged in teaching children, the future leaders. The Teaching Profession Council, we want those who get into that Council to be professionals who know about teaching and that Council should not have corrupt people.
Finally, I want to talk about the issue that really pains me which the President talked about concerning young children who are being raped. Raping young children causes a lot of things. I want to touch on other things that I am coming across in my constituency. My constituency has a place where people share one room since the Second World War in 1945. Those people still use communal toilets up to now. Those houses are called GBs, which means General Barracks. They were for soldiers and some of them are called SQs, which means Single Quarters. You can imagine - since 1945 up today, we have not revamped those houses.
I want to talk about the raping of minors because children are sharing the same bedroom with old people. This is causing despondency upon families. We should look at those children and those families. The toilets which are communal do not have doors that someone closes when they are using them. Old people, be it the father or the mother, it is the same toilet that is used by the minors. When the children get into the toilet, the elders also get into that toilet. We tried to revamp those toilets.
I had left that I was the Mayor for Kadoma for two terms and winning resoundingly. I revamped those toilets and those houses. Since I left, nothing has been done and there is no improvement at all. So, I urge the Government to remove that which causes people to rape children so that the people do not share toilets and houses, not only in Kadoma but everywhere countrywide. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to
contribute towards the Presidential Speech that the President announced in this august House, setting the agenda for us as legislators on this Fifth Session. There are many points that His Excellency touched on. I am going to touch on just a few issues of concern. The President spoke about the success of Command Agriculture. I was impressed that the other day while I was reading the newspaper, I discovered that one million tons of maize was delivered to the GMB.
Mr. Speaker, there are few things that we need to polish on the Command Agriculture issues. It is a good initiative but I think it would be better for the farmers to receive the inputs on time in order for the
Command Agriculture to be successful. The last time what happened Mr. Speaker was that some farmers did not receive adequate fertilizer on time and some farmers did not receive the inputs on time. So I think when the President alluded to the success of the Command Agriculture Programme, I think it is wise for us to try and encourage the Executive to make sure that these inputs are there on time.
Mr. Speaker, we know that we have four seasons a year. This time we are expecting a lot of rain but if the rain does not come and our dams are still silted the way they are, we are going to face a challenge of water. I think as Hon. Members of Parliament, we need to encourage our community on water harvesting.
Mr. Speaker, the President also spoke about the Estate
Administrations Amendment Bill. There are issues that are happening when people pass away. Some of these issues affect our relatives, our people and the general public where corruption seems to take the lead. Corruption is also in the offices of Government. Why do I say that? If one person agrees to do something which is not right, I think with this Amendment Bill coming to this House, we need to debate and scrutinize the Bill so that these issues of corruption will be dealt with.
Mr. Speaker, in the ease of doing business in this country, out of 190 countries on the World Bank report, we are on 161. Due to the bureaucracy that is in place, we still do not have the one stop shop. When foreigners come into this country and want to invest, there is no one stop shop. So, we need to look at that.
Mr. Speaker, the Public Entities Corporate Governance Bill is a very important Bill and I feel that the sooner this Bill comes to this House and debate on it, the better it will be. We would not have issues like what happened in the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development with Professor Gudyanga where he chairs all the boards and he has no one who oversees him. It becomes a real problem especially in terms of corporate governance.
Mr. Speaker, the Land Developers Bill, we read in the papers a lot of issues that are taking place, especially to do with land. You find that people are buying land and are being quote as third parties, where things are not clear. As a result, you find that a person loses his money, the land or houses are demolished. So, the sooner this Bill comes to this House, I think we as Hon. Members of Parliament should debate it robustly and make sure that there is no loophole that would be left open.
Mr. Speaker, with the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill, there is a big challenge. It is still a one size fits all. When we say one size fits all, whether you are a small miner, medium miner or large miner, it is
the same laws. This is where there are a lot of challenges. Out there where we have a lot of artisanal miners, they do not even understand the content that is in the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill. We need to try and see how best we will be able to go out and teach the people and try and get an understanding of where it becomes a win-win situation.
The biggest challenge that we face in the Exploration and Marketing Corporation Bill, marketing and beneficiation go together, exploration and mining go together. Now, when we put it together, it looks like we want to get rid of some of the boards because somebody has put his hand in the MMCZ, which was the only entity of Government which makes good profit, good money and is able to sustain itself. The biggest challenge that we are facing Mr. Speaker is that although it is the same value chain, it becomes a bit of a problem if we do not separate those two. If we keep them together, we are now duplicating the MMCZ Act. If we are going to duplicate the MMCZ
Act, it means one is going to override the other. I feel that we need to work out a situation where the beneficiation and marketing go together, the exploration and mining go together.
Mr. Speaker, on the Gold Trade Act and the Precious Stones Act, that is one of the very sore and sad stories where you find a person is caught with 3 grams and is sentenced to five years in prison or caught with emeralds that have no value and is sentenced to three years mandatory yet a lot of people got away with diamonds worth $15 billion and no one was ever sent to jail for that $15 billion. Therefore, on this Gold Trade Act and Precious Stones Act, Mr. Speaker we need to look at the way we are going to deal with this because some of the sentences are far too harsh, especially for the artisanal miners. Artisanal miners are people who are basically trying to make a living. The President spoke about decriminalising them but here we are playing cat and mouse chasing them, catching them and putting them in for five years at the taxpayers’ money. It becomes a sad story. So we need to look at that in a robust way.
Mr. Speaker, before you licence your vehicle, you have to get an insurance. Most of the Members of Parliament and people out there, just buy third party insurance. I do not understand why we have the third party insurance when it does not even cover for accident victims, road disasters and stuff like that. I am glad that there is a vehicle accident fund but I think we need to scrap the third party insurance because we are now duplicating. It is just a way of taking money away from us because by the end of the day, no one in this august House or out there has actually benefited from third party insurance. It is just a rip-off.
Mr. Speaker, I am not going to say much. His Excellency spoke to us as Parliamentarians and he said that we need to be well informed in order for us to give robust debates. The problem with us here in Parliament is we are not punctual, disciplined and there is a problem especially from Ministers that were appointed. Some do not even come here and we do not even know what they look like. We see them in the newspapers only. We need to see them here in order for us to talk to them. The reason why we can talk to these Ministers is so that when they talk to us, they lead by example that they have come here, we get understanding. If there is something we do not understand, we find a way of finding each other so that we can go out there and give the right message, but the problem is we play cat and mouse. There is always an excuse. Some Members of Parliament just come here to mark the register and walk out, which is short changing the general people out there who actually elected us to come here.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to encourage the Members of Parliament to try and be honest with themselves, to come on time, to be also well disciplined and to make sure that when we are debating we should not be like hooligans making noise in this House. We should be able to understand each other like what happened when His Excellency was here. Mr. Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER
ADVERSE AND NON- ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED
FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): I
have to inform the House that I have received the following from the
Parliamentary Legal Committee: Adverse report on the Shop Licence
Amendment Bill [H.B.10, 2016], Non- Adverse report on Statutory
Instrument 79, 80-85 and 87 published during the month of July, 2017, Non-Adverse report on General Notices 315439 published during the month of July, 2017 and the Adverse Report on Statutory Instrument 74 published during the month of July, 2017.
HON RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 26th September, 2017.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON PROMOTION OF FAIR
REGIONAL AND GENDER REPRESENTATION IN THE AWARD
OF TENDERS ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the motion
standing in my name that the motion on Fair Regional Representation which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73.
HON. MARIDADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the House do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Hon. Adv. Chamisa having stood up to debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. May you resume your seat? I have asked whether you were in agreement but you were seated until I stood up. I cannot reverse that.
Motion put and agreed to.
The National Assembly adjourned at Half past Three o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday, 26th September, 2017.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 20th September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITORS’ IN THE SPEAKERS GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the presence in
the Speaker’s Gallery of a delegation from the Consultative National
Assembly of the Islamic Republic of Iran. You are most welcome –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. MLILO: I rise on a point of privilege with your indulgence. Yesterday during our sitting at around this time, you made an announcement to the effect that the documentation on the Constituency Development Fund was going to be distributed to all our pigeon holes. I see even now today we still have not yet received such documentation.
Some have received and some have not - [HON.MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]. I am coming from my pigeon hole and I did not find it. As such it is my prayer that you extend the - [HON. ZWIZWAI: The
Speaker is a man of his words. We got everything.] -
THE HON SPEAKER: Hon. Mlilo, I am not sure when you
actually checked in your pigeon hole but if it is not there – [HON.
MLILO: There’s nothing.] – when the Chair is speaking please do not respond. I am explaining to you that the Clerk of Parliament will make sure that you have got a copy. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: On what?
HON. GONESE: On an important matter relating to leave of absence of Hon. Ministers. As a matter of procedure Mr. Speaker you normally announce the names of those Hon. Ministers who have sought the indulgence of the Chair to be excused from attending this session. Today you had called for Questions Without Notice before the intervention by the Hon. Mlilo and I just wish to bring it to your attention that we were still waiting to be appraised of the names of those Ministers. We know that there are Ministers who are not here and we do not believe that all of them are with His Excellency in New York. We just want to be informed of those who have accompanied the President and those who have otherwise sought leave of absence and thereafter we can then proceed accordingly.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The list is being compiled and I agree with you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. MAPIKI: My question is directed to the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development. What is Government’s policy regarding agents who are charging 35% on Ecocash withdrawals? Secondly, what is Government going to do with regards to people who are selling cash at 35% through bank transfers?
*THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Member
for the pertinent question. My request is that may he please write this question down so that I can have enough time to make a thorough research and give a comprehensive report. The reason why I am asking him to put that in writing is because he talked about accessing cash through Ecocash and therefore I need to be given detailed information so that I can give the nation Government’s position regarding that. Now regarding the illegal disbursement of cash by cash barons, I can tell this august House that there are some individuals who have been apprehended by the Reserve Bank for the illegal disbursements of cash. *HON. MAPIKI: My supplementary question is that, is there a policy right now which outlaws this practice because we need to put strict laws which will lead to the conviction and incarceration of offenders involved in money laundering. As yet, we do not have a mandatory prison term for these people involved in money laundering.
What we only have are banking rules which punish such offenders.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Rules and Orders are very clear. You allow the Hon. Minister to respond and if you have supplementary questions, you rise and shall be recognised. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] - Can we have order. Hon. Minister, can you complete your response.
*HON. CHINAMASA: I was saying that we do not yet have promulgation that whosoever is convicted of money laundering should be convicted but as of now, we are drafting an amendment Bill so that whoever is convicted of money laundering should have a mandatory prison term. However, suffice to say, we are looking at the Banking Act which allows the Reserve Bank to impose penalties on offenders. So far, we have had some organisations which have been convicted and penalised using this banking law.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I am grateful for the response by the Minister but what I would like to assure the Minister is that, whatever rule you may put in place or even mandatory incarceration which you have already done in the past, has been of no use as people continue to carry out money laundering. I am making a preamble so that when I then ask my question I will be understood. When we talk about money laundering, it has been done through many ways even in the banks. When you want to go abroad, they say come and deposit some cash with us so that we can allocate you some foreign currency. So, I am appealing to the Minister to work on this ruling. We were told that the bond notes were equivalent to the US$ but when we want to go abroad we are told to bring cash yet we have money in the bank. Why should I deposit some more cash when I already have money in the bank? So my question is based on the question asked by Hon Mapiki. Not only are the people selling money in the streets but the bankers are also falling into that category. Banks are into money laundering yet the Minister is saying that banks are not selling money but when you want to travel abroad you are asked to deposit cash into your account so that you get foreign currency. In other words, they are encouraging us to go onto the street to get money to deposit into our accounts.
*HON. CHINAMASA: Let me elaborate on what is being said
by Hon. Ziyambi. I did not deny that there is money laundering but I
have never been part and parcel of this money laundering business.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order arises from the answers that are coming from the Minister. He seems to indicate that he does not know what is taking place in the sector in which he is in charge. I just wanted to find out if the Hon Minister is still responsible for finance and whether he is still staying in this country to the extent that he does not know what is happening in the sector in which he is in charge?
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, please let me clarify the
position. We receive reports and so, I cannot be a witness to an illegal sale, but we receive the reports through the Central Bank. People are reporting a lot of banks as well as individuals who are flouting the law. They report to the department which supervises the commercial banks and there are some commercial banks which have been penalised for that sort of thing. There are some bank managers who have also been caught violating the law but I cannot stand here and say that I am a witness to an illegal sale of foreign currency because I am not. Therefore, the point I want to make is that anybody who has knowledge of any transactions which are illegal are entitled to report to the Central Bank which has authority to pursue and investigate the matters.
*HON. CHIBAYA: If we move around our banks in the country, we see lots of queues of people wanting to withdraw money yet if you go to Road Port, you will see people indulging in money laundering. These people have trunks full of money and yet we have never seen them being arrested or being questioned. How did they manage to accumulate such funds when banks have nothing to give to depositors?
HON. CHINAMASA: These matters come under the authority of
the Central Bank and I will refer the matters to them for action. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Members, it is very clear that this is a burning issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] - May I suggest that Hon. Mapiki brings in a motion which will allow everybody to debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I have not finished. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order. Hon. Chibaya, please cool down. Hon. Minister, please proceed and make your suggestion.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I was going to suggest that I do a Ministerial Statement instead. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Tomorrow!] – I am not available tomorrow but next week – [HON.
MEMBERS: Where are you going?] –
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. In the Hon.
Minister’s Ministerial Statement, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – In his Ministerial Statement, may the Hon. Minister also include some of the things that we feel should be addressed.
For example, firstly the Hon. Minister said that no one would be forced on the use of the bond notes – that was the first issue. Then the second issue, the bond notes will be trading one is to one with the United States Dollar (1:1). The third issue relates to the $200 million Afrexim Bank; now we hear that they have borrowed I think $300 million. The last issue is, the Hon. Minister promised to appoint an independent body that was going to supervise the issuance of the bond notes but that has not been done up to now. So, if he can include all those things.
Lastly, the Reserve Bank Governor promised to resign if the issue of the bond notes failed and it has failed. If the Hon. Minister could include some of those issues in his Ministerial Statement then at least we will be answered. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – - [HON. MARIDADI: And also tell us where Russell
Goreraza got the $2million to buy his two cars from!] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Maridadi – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, I will not allow disorder here. Hon. Maridadi, you have to be recognised. You are a very seasoned Member of Parliament, yes and you have to be recognised. – [HON. MARIDADI: I am sorry Mr. Speaker.] – Alright.
– [AN HON. MEMBER: Are you going to give him a chance to speak Mr. Speaker?] – No, his point has been made.
HON. DR. KHUPE: My question is directed to the Leader of the
House who is also the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Mnangagwa.
Voter registration has just begun and in the absence of the 3 200 registration kits which were initially supposed to be procured, only 400 kits have been distributed to 63 polling stations resulting in the process being very slow. When are the 3 200 kits going to be procured? Why is it that Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) has not yet disclosed the other 10 000 voter registration centres apart from the 63 as per the agreement? I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank the question asked by the
Hon. Member which would afford every single Hon. Member in the House to know what is happening as well as the country at large would know the facts.
I personally do not have and would have to ask the Chairperson of ZEC, to provide the statistics which you seek to know because it is not a question of policy but a question of administrative fact which requires me to present facts as they stand. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The Hon. Vice President
said he will make a detailed statement with all the facts once he has conferred with ZEC. So the supplementary question does not arise.
Hon. Zindi!
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. It is more on a policy issue so that he includes those issues in his statement.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am recognising her - please, yes!
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I
think voter registration is very important and I appreciate the response by the Hon. Vice President.
I want to add so that when he brings in his response, at least he is going to include some of these issues. Voter registration Mr. Speaker, is very slow and if you look at Remembrance Drive Polling Station in Mbare, the ZEC officials announced that they will only register 72 people today. Again, when the Chinese company was demonstrating their equipment, it took them four minutes to register one person but look at what happened. It took the President about 25 minutes to be registered; it took our own Secretary-General Mwonzora about 22 minutes to be registered and it took Hon. S.K. Moyo 18 minutes to be registered. Many other people have been registering and it has been taking them more than 20 minutes. So, I think it is important that when the Hon. Vice President comes to the House, he has responses on why this process is very slow. I thank you.
HON. ZINDI: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I need to find out from the Hon. Minister, the justification of charges of $30.00 on each Point of Sale (POS) in all businesses that are using the swipe system in terms of payments. What is the justification for that $30.00 per month being charged by banks to all retailers who are using those POS machines, if it is not exploitation? I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, may I seek your
indulgence Hon. Zindi, that the question you raised be included in the written response by the Hon. Minister?
HON. ZINDI: With all due respect Hon. Speaker, I am of the opinion that it is a completely different question all together because this is related to charges. The previous question by Hon. Mapiki is something that was related with black market and trading of currency. In other words, the formal banking system has been taken out of the banks onto the streets, which is different from the issue that I am raising.
I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: So you request that you be answered?
Hon. Minister.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Member
for her question; but to say that it requires a specific investigation, I am not aware of what the Hon. Member is mentioning – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not a banker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – the relationship – I will need to find out Mr. Speaker Sir, the relationship between the banker and the customer. What is the customer being charged for in respect of the US$30 every month?
Hon. Zindi having approached the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I will allow Hon. Zindi to show you what she is talking about.
Hon. Zindi explained some issues to the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development, (Hon. Chinamasa)
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very clear that this is a matter that requires investigation. She says that a particular bank, which I will not mention has been charging US$30 for the point of sale machines. That is a relationship between the bank and the customer and I will need to find out what exactly the charge is about. I can speculate and I do not want to speculate. For instance, I do not know the cost of the point of sale machines, I do not know the contractual relationship when the bank supplies the point of sale machines, whether they are recovering the cost of the point of sale machine, we do not know. So, I will need to investigate and I ask the Hon. Member to put the question in writing.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. With your indulgence, I am of the opinion that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, with the support of the Reserve Bank, guide commercial banks in terms of how much charges they should transact with their clients. Therefore, when we are raising these policy issues, it is intended to actually give direction to these commercial banks in terms of the charges they should actually be charging their clients which does not border on exploitation. For example, if it is renting, if you have 10 machines, 10 times 30 every month, over and above the other charges one has to pay. What business can you do in that kind of environment?
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your supplementary question?
HON. ZINDI: I am saying, in terms of the response by the Minister, we need a directive as he previously did, to cut down on charges which are being levied to clients. This was done when we raised these issues. The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, when we raised these issues, it came in and the Ministry also came in, in terms of supporting the clients or the clientele base being levied very high charges by banks. Banks in this environment are reporting super profits.
Where are they getting the money from?
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your supplementary question?
HON. ZINDI: My question Hon. Speaker, I repeat. We want intervention in terms of policy direction to cut on the charges. Period.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have promised to look into this matter. The bank and its charges have been mentioned. I will inquire in respect of what service; US$30 is being deducted every month. I cannot give the answer now. I do not know whether it is a repayment of a loan, I do not know – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. May I revert to the point of Privilege raised by Hon. Gonese. The list that I have now is Hon.
Moyo, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon.
Damasane, Deputy Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and
Community Development; Hon. Matangaidze, Deputy Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Services; Hon. Mumbengegwi,
Minister of Foreign Affairs; Hon. Bimha, Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. Undenge, Minister of Energy and Power Development and Hon. Mombeshora, Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement.
HON. GONESE: Just a follow up on your response. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir, for giving us that information. My follow up as a point of clarification relates to what we are going to do as an institution in respect of those ministers who have not been mentioned on the list that you have read to us and are not here in this august House. As you recall, last week, His Excellence alluded to the fact that ministers have got to take their responsibilities seriously and that they have to attend Parliament. My question is, the time has come for us to do something in relation to those ministers who are not in attendance and who have not sought the leave of your office.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will ask the Clerk of Parliament to draw up the list and from there, the list will be brought into the House and the House will determine the way forward in terms of our Standing Orders.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: But on what basis?
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much. Just on that aspect Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: But I have made a ruling already.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is not the ruling that I am challenging, that is why I said point of order Hon. Speaker. It has to do with the ministers you have said are not in this House. It is just a point I wanted to know. Is it that they have accompanied the President – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member please, we shall get the
list and the due process shall follow. If it means establishing - [Hon.
Chamisa having remained standing] – please sit down, can you kindly sit down [ HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I will sit down Hon. Speaker.] – I have not finished talking. The due process Hon. Chamisa is that, we establish an appropriate committee on Standing Rules and Orders and then they will be summoned accordingly. Thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government policy regarding assistance given to cattle farmers whose cattle have been affected by foot and mouth disease, bearing in mind that some are resorting to traditional methods of treatment?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Before you answer Hon. Minister, I have also received an apology from Hon. Vice President Mphoko.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would
like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Diseases like anthrax, foot and mouth and rabies are diseases that are financed by the State in terms of taking care of them. What has happened with foot and mouth is - we have discovered that we will not be able to deal with foot and mouth through vaccinations alone; hence our desire to put in some policies to restrict movement of cattle, particularly in districts affected by foot and mouth. Foot and mouth has been caused mainly by illegal movement of cattle. We have always had movement permits that anybody who want to move cattle, before he does that, he must seek permission from the Veterinary Department to check whether in actual fact it is allowed to move cattle from one district to another district. So, it has not been happening.
The problem that we have faced now is the fact that we have buffaloes roaming around all over the country than ever before because of the resettled people who are near the conservancies and because of that, we now have a problem. What has happened is that we have now been assisted with more than nearly half a million doses of vaccines and we think that will go a long way in mitigating the spread of it, not the outbreak. Measures that we have put in place is we think that we would be able to deal with foot and mouth by way of restricting the movement of cattle from one district to another district, and that is what we have done.
There is no Government assistance that is given to a farmer whose cattle have been affected by foot and mouth. Nine out of ten, it does not mean that when cattle have been affected by foot and mouth, they die. They do not die in most cases. Therefore, if you leave the cattle for the time being and you do not move them, the disease might subside for a while but the clinical signs of the disease will remain in the said cattle.
That is what we have done. Thank you very much.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question is that the foot and mouth disease has affected areas like Chipinge. She has talked about the buffaloes and I am saying the vaccination which is being done is not the solution to this problem because buffaloes are moving out of their secluded places because there are no fences. What is Government policy, especially looking at the Ministry which is responsible for wildlife? Have you put your heads together so that we take some measures to erect the fencing which was removed when we were working on our land redistribution? We need to erect fences and protect these buffaloes from moving out of the conservatives.
*HON. ZHANDA: I thank the Hon. Member for that question because I am working hand in hand with the Minister of Environment, Hon. Muchinguri. We held meetings with farmers in Chiredzi and we were advocating for the re-erection of fences and cutting off these conservatives. The other problem we face is that when we are in this area, this time of the season where we do not have enough pastures, we observed that the farmers cut up the fences so that animals can access grazing land in these conservatives and this is a very big national problem. The rule says an area which is a conservancy which has buffaloes should have double fences so that they do not break through.
If the farmers fail to put this double fencing, Government policy says these animals should be moved to some areas where they cannot be a menace. At times if need be, these buffaloes can also be put to rest but the first solution is for these areas to be fenced so that the buffalos do not mix in the same grazing land with the cattle. We realised that when we have a double fence, these two animals do not meet in the grazing land. We are saying in the Command Livestock agriculture programme, we are going to put aside some cash so that we erect fences in areas which will separate what we call red zones and clean zones.
Let me inform this august House that we will never be able to eradicate foot and mouth. We can only control it but never terminate it forever because as long as we have the carrier, the buffaloes - this disease will always be with us. We are working planned vaccinations in some selected areas but this should depend on whether we have enough cash for the vaccinations. When we are vaccinating cattle against foot and mouth, we have two vaccines, one which is vaccinated at the beginning of the month and towards the end of the month, these cattle receive another booster vaccination.
People should know that maybe this is just theory and practically it is not. We have noticed that some farmers are reluctant to bring their cattle for the second vaccine, as a result, there is going to be the spread of this disease. This is because if they do not come for the second vaccination, it means they are the carriers of this foot and mouth disease. The foot and mouth disease is disturbing the marketing process of our beef - even to international markets, hence we have to be careful.
*HON. MANGAMI: My supplementary question regarding this vaccination on foot and mouth is can any farmer easily access this medication? When a beast has died of foot and mouth, is the meat safe for human consumption?
*HON. ZHANDA: Thank you Hon. Mangami for the question.
The foot and mouth vaccine is imported and we can only get it from Botswana at the Botswana Vaccine Institute. This is a project which was embarked on by the SADC countries. When we talk of foot and mouth disease, it is found in different strains or types, hence this vaccine is not one size fits all. It is only targeted at a particular area, hence if a farmer wants to purchase this vaccine, we can allow that person to go and purchase it in Botswana but they do not vaccinate as individuals, but we send experts from our Ministry to carry out the vaccination.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. We
continue to receive apologies from Ministers – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - So, I think we will continue to receive them even after the Question Time. Those names will be included on the list.
Here, we have Hon. Mandiwanzira; we have received his apology.
* HON. ZHANDA: I will now respond to the question on whether a beast which has died of foot and mouth can be consumed by human beings. Any animal which dies on natural causes or foot and mouth, people are not allowed to consume that meat. It should be thrown away or burnt out.
HON. MHONA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. What is the Government policy in place relating to the alignment of the Presidential Speech delivered traditionally in
English across the country on the Independence, Heroes and Defence Forces Days to our vernacular languages as enunciated in our supreme
Constitution, Section 6(1). Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his pertinent question. However, I would want to point out that the question is not strictly directed or has to do with the
Ministry of Local Government as such. Thank you very much – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order Hon.
Members! I am calling for order. Can we have order in the House? Hon. Minister, since the Ministry of Local Government is the one which organizes all those functions, I think you have got to see how you can solve that problem and not to just leave an Hon. Member with a question which is not answered.
HON. MUZONDIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Leader of the House. May I know what the Government policy is regarding the issue of those people who are known as ‘tsikamutanda’ who are witch hunters going around rural areas accusing people of witchcraft. They charge them some cattle and take those cattle from villagers who are in the rural areas. Thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, it is unlawful for those persons called ‘tsikamutanda’ to do what they do. It is unlawful to go around doing witchcraft hunting or something. It is not lawful. The Ministry of Home Affairs which is responsible for law and order should arrest such people. We do not allow such unlawful activities to prevail. These matters have been reported at Executive level and directive has been given to the Ministry of Home Affairs to suppress and arrest those who practice what the ‘tsikamutandas’ do. I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Finance, Hon. Chinamasa. We see the prices of commodities going up at a very high rate. If we look at sugar, rice, flour and green soap, the price for rice has increased from $1.80 to
$2.63, flour from $1.71 to $2.10, brown sugar from $1.85 to $1.95.
What policy has Government put in place to control inflation since we see this happening nowadays? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you very much. I
thank the Hon. Member for his question. I think the question will be dealt with more comprehensively under my Ministerial Statement because it covers very much the issues of inflation. However, I must say that as at end of August this year, inflation is at 0.14% and we anticipate that maybe by the end of the year, it will be around 2 to 3%, which still remains the lowest inflation within the SADC region – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I prefer that I address these issues more comprehensively in the Ministerial Statement that I will give. Thank you.
*HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to the Hon. Acting President, Hon. Mnangagwa. I want to understand Government policy in terms of the banning of second hand clothes which we have heard that MPs are now getting. So, we want to know whether the law is still in place on the banning of second hand clothes in line with protecting our industries. Thank you.
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E. D.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Madam President. If I heard the
question clearly, he is saying that there are clothes that are being given to MPs. I have not been given those clothes. He also asked about the banning of second hand clothes. I do not know whether that law is in place. I think I should go and find out whether we have a law that second hand clothes are not to be worn by other people because he wants to know what is Government policy. I do not know what the law says concerning that, that if clothes have been worn by someone, they should not be worn by another one. I do not know whether I heard your question properly.
*HON. SARUWAKA: Let me clarify the question.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order. If you have a supplementary or something to say, you make sure that the Chair knows, not to just stand up and start talking.
*HON. SARUWAKA: Acting President, Hon. Gumbo do not
disturb the Acting President. My question is, there is a law which was brought in here by Hon. Chinamasa in terms of banning second hand clothes, in line with protecting the local clothing industry so that children here get jobs, but now the First Lady is giving people second hand clothes at State House. Is it not contradicting the law of banning of second hand clothes?
*HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA: I think now it is clear. I thought you were just asking whether we have that law in place. I was not given anything so I did not know. I can ask from other Hon. Ministers here, Hon. Chinamasa, Hon. Mabuwa to assist me in explaining the issues. All the people that you mentioned are here, so I think the law, as I have articulated, still stands.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: So maybe you can redirect
your question.
*HON. SARUWAKA: If you allow me I would like to redirect my question to Hon. Chinamasa on the position of Government, with the assistance of Hon. Mabuwa.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. The position is that we do not prohibit the importation of second hand clothes, but we charge very heavy duty to discourage people from importing second hand clothes. This is intended to protect local clothing industries. That is the position, but there are people who smuggle and if they are caught by ZIMRA or by law enforcement agencies, that cargo will be confiscated. That is the position I know.
The other aspect, I am not privy to the issues.
*HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would
like to thank Hon. Chinamasa for his response. He says that things that people smuggle are confiscated by the Government because last time, we heard that these things are the ones that are taken by the First Lady and given to people. We do not know where these things are taken to because we have never heard of any auction taking place. When it is cars, we hear that there are auctions taking place. So, we want to know when these clothes are confiscated at the borders, where are they taken to. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is a new question –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order! Listen Hon. Members, that is the duty of the Chair. The question which has been asked by Hon. Chidhakwa is not from the original question because the question asked was, is it now allowed. It is now different. We do not want to be diverted.
HON. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. There is a shortage of foreign currency and any foreign currency which is to leave the country has got to be prioritised. I would like to know whether the money that was used by the First Lady to buy a house in South Africa and equally the money used by Russel Goreraza to buy cars outside the country was priority and did it also have foreign exchange approval?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, I cannot
comment on allegations which I am not aware of. These are transactions outside Government. Yes, they are transactions, if they happened at all and I cannot comment. You need to ask those you allege have done so.
HON. MLISWA: I think we need to be consistent. We cannot have Ministers ducking and diving. This is very clear. Most of the questions asked in this House come through various forms. The first family has not denied that they bought a house. There has been no official statement from the first family saying that. It is very clear that unless, Minister, you are able to tell us that you will look into it and you will come back to us and answer the question– [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]- is it an offshore account or is it not an offshore account. The house was confiscated by the African Forum People. The evidence is there. Minister, I can furnish you if you want, with more information that it is not more than one house which has been bought by the first family. They have equally a house in South Africa. Is the money offshore or is the money coming from here because we have a foreign currency crisis in the country – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – He must respond. The Minister cannot duck and dive to protect corruption. This House must uphold the Constitution and must hold everybody accountable; the First Lady has been extravagant. The US$1.4 million which was used to buy a ring, it was also out of foreign currency in this country. We have been too quiet. He must answer …–
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! There is a point of
order.
*HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order. The Hon. Member is naming somebody who is not a Member of this House. Someone who is not a Member of this House should not be named because they cannot come to answer to those allegations and should not be included in our debates. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the Hon.
Minister responded. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Mliswa, please let us give each other a chance to explain.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I am prepared to give
evidence to the Minister regarding the fact that the First Lady bought a house; that Goreraza bought the cars. If I furnish him with the evidence, will he answer?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is fine, if you will give him. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, we have agreed with Hon. Mliswa that he will bring in all the evidence, then the Minister will be able to respond.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Minister, we are now approaching the rain season and we have not seen any physical development in the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway which was launched by the President some time back. When is the road going to be constructed?
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Mashayamombe for… – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members! Hon. Mliswa
please! What is this now?
HON. DR. GUMBO: I would like to thank Hon. Mashayamombe for that question concerning work on the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway, which was officially launched by the President on 18th May, 2017. When roads are being constructed, it does not mean that when we launch the work, the following morning you will find work in progress.
There is a lot of ground work that needs to be done. I once gave a Ministerial Statement that on 4th July, people will be working on the road. Engineers were on the ground doing the work on that date until now. I think Hon. Members have read in the newspapers that we need surveyors for the job, that is looking at our target of 40%. The company we engaged is Geiger. They got about 82 names of surveyors from Zimbabwe and they only chose six. They have finished working from Skyline to Beatrice, which is the first phase and is in Hon.
Mashayamombe’s Constituency Beatrice to Chivhu is the second phase. Third phase is from Chivhu to Mvuma. Mvuma to Masvingo is another phase, Masvingo to Rutenga is another and then Rutenga to Beitbridge.
As I am speaking, the engineers are on the ground doing the work. Surveyors will start work and then designers will follow. They do all the preliminaries before the actual work starts. Yes, we are approaching the rain season but we are supposed to do what is supposed to be done so that our work will be done properly.
In the coming weeks, you will see other people coming in, starting from Beitbridge coming here. When they start, you will find that there will be a lot of progress. Thank you.
*HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question to the Minister is, will he explain clearly why we have a launch first before we have a survey. I come from
Chitungwiza; some 20 years ago there was a launch of a railway line project from Chitungwiza to Harare which never came to pass. Which is the correct procedure? What starts -, is it the feasibility or the launch or the launch then the feasibility study?
*HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you Hon. Sithole for that question. The policy is that we should start with the launch because we are now starting that programme. After launching, we will then go through other processes until we go to the actual work. Some of these processes are difficult to explain in vernacular.
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank
the Hon. Minister for explaining the policy position on all the questions. My question is - Minister, we have observed that we have had a launch of some projects and after some time we forget about them. For example, Tokwe-Mkhorsi was launched long back. We had almost forgotten about it was then completed on time.
On the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway, what time factor would you give for Parliament to expect results so that when the project is carried we will be assured that a feasibility study has been done? What should we tell the road users that the road will be completed by this time so that whenever problems are faced in completing the project, we are able to say the Government has failed and we need a new Government which may face that challenge head on?
*HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker for the supplementary question raised by Hon. Chamisa. We have had times whereby a project has been launched and may take time to complete. Looking at the road in question, it was launched in February, 2017. We need to know that. We have to take time so that we complete that road. The agreement which was signed regarding this road is that it should be completed in three years. What this means is that the length of the road is divided amongst the tender winners so that each winner will work on a section of the road and when it is past three years, that road should be complete. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWER TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
JOBS TO YOUTHS IN GOKWE-NEMBUDZIYA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. WADYAJENA asked the Minister of Youth
Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to explain to the House when the 4 500 jobs will be available to the Youths of Gokwe Nembudziya Constituency, considering that the Ministry has been registering five hundred youths per ward through youth officers.
HON.WADYAJENA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. May
you compel the Minister to come to Parliament please?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just like what we do to other
Ministers.
HON. WADYAJENA: He does not even come over here. We do
not even know him. I have got questions for the past three months. The constituency is waiting Madam Speaker ….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, would you
please take your seat?
HON. WADYAJENA: But I am just saying the constituency is waiting….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat! Take your
seat!
HON. WADYAJENA: Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members who are
walking out, may you please do that quietly.
FIRST READING
PUBLIC ENTITIES CORPORATE GOVERNANCE BILL [H. B. 5,
2017]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA) presented the Public
Entities Corporate Governance Bill [H.B.5, 2017]
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. GONESE: I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on the
Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE LAND COMMISSION BILL [H.B.2B, 2016]
ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Madam Speaker, I move
the motion in my name that the Land Commission Bill (H.B. 2B, 2016) which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have no
problem in reinstating these motions, particularly to do with Bills. But some of these motions or Bills have been reinstated from previous sessions. My plea to Ministers is that once they have introduced their Bills, can we please be conclusive so that we do not continue to reinstate and reinstate.
Out of four hundred and something pieces of legislation to be aligned with the Constitution, there has been slow speed. So, if they can conclude these Bills so that by the end of this Session of the Eighth Parliament, everything will be in order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Point taken but that is not the case with this Bill.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND
RECONCILIATION COMMISSION BILL [H.B.2, 2017] ON THE
ORDER PAPER
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): I move the motion
standing in my name that the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill (H.B.2, 2017) which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No.
161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO)
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Members if you want to chat, there is a lobby room outside, not in this Chamber.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE SHOP LICENCES AMENDMENT
BILL [H.B.10, 2016] ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
CHINGOSHO): Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that the Shop Licences Amendment Bill H.B. 10, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE ZEP-RE (MEMBERSHIP OF
ZIMBABWE BRANCH OFFICE) [H.B.9A, 2016] ON THE
ORDER PAPER
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that the ZEP-RE (Membership of
Zimbabwe Branch Office) [H.B. 9A, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the
Order Paper at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MINES AND MINERALS
AMENDMENT BILL [H.B.19, 2015] ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Mr. Speaker, I move
the motion standing in my name, that the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill [H.B, 19, 2015] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order
Paper at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVEOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 20th September, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the House
adjourned at Thee Minutes past Four o’ clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 19th September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
DRAFT CONSTITUTION FOR THE CONSTITUENCY
DEVELOPMENT FUND
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have two announcements to make. I have to advise Hon. Members that copies of the Draft Constitution for the Constituency Development Fund have been placed in your pigeon holes. Hon. Members are requested to study the Constitution and submit their input to Counsel to Parliament’s Office, Number 306, Third Floor, by the end of day on Friday, 29th September, 2017. Hon. Members are urged to treat this as a matter of urgency so that we can move forward in order to put in place the CDF Fund.
APPOINTMENT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEES
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that
Portfolio Committees will continue their operations as constituted during the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament pending appointment by the
Committee on Standing Rules and Orders of new Committees for the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament. Thank you.
Hon. Matangira having complained that the Speaker was only recognizing female MPs to give Notices of Motions
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, at the back, Hon.
Matangira! You know I am in court, listen very carefully. There is a jury on my neck and the jury says, be very careful we may rule against you because you are not gender sensitive. So, I am very much alive to that now, I do not want the jury to rule against me.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
HON. D. M. NCUBE: I move the motion standing in my name that a respectful address be presented to the President of Zimbabwe as follows:-
May it please you, your Excellency the President:
We, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe, desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech, which you have been pleased to address to Parliament.
HON. MLILO: I second.
HON. D. M. NCUBE: It is my pleasure to contribute to the Speech by His Excellency, the President and Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces. As is the norm with speeches from this iconic figure, it was well thought out and regally presented. The agenda set by His Excellency is quite daunting but achievable. Above all, it requires that all of us and I mean all of us work as one unit towards the fulfillment of the legislative agenda.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not know how many of us realise that in his opening remarks, His Excellency put us on notice by mentioning that this is the Fifth and final Session of the Eighth Parliament. After this session, Parliament is going to be dissolved and elections are beckoning.
Elections by their very nature are unpredictable.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon
Ncube is a very good friend of mine. I am just requesting in that friendship if he can refer to the notes and not to read.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Ncube, you are allowed to refer to your notes. Thank you.
HON. D. M. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I will refer to my notes from time to time. Elections by their very nature are unpredictable. His Excellency in one simple sentence – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections].
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Let me not be persuaded to remove some Hon. Member out of the House. Can we listen to what the Hon. Member is saying?
HON. D. M. NCUBE: I am not quite sure where I was before I was disturbed by Hon. Munengami. Elections by their very nature are very unpredictable. We cannot be certain how many of us are going to come back in the Ninth Parliament. So, what His Excellency has done is to put us on notice so that we now work hard and ensure that we fulfill the legislative agenda set before us.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me just go through some of the legislative agenda which was articulated by His Excellency. The Child Justice Bill, to provide a dedicated child justice system. The Marriage Bill, to outlaw child marriages. The Disaster Risk Management Bill, to strengthen our disaster responses and mitigation strategies. The cyber crime and Cyber
Security Bill as well as the Land Developers’ Bill. This is just a synopsis of some of the Bills which will be presented to this House. I would like to speak a little bit more about climate change particularly addressing the Disaster Risk Management Bill. Climate change, by its very nature will affect every person on the planet, no matter where they are and who they are. It will threaten food and water security as well as human health and political stability. By degrading and depleting the very resources on which life depends, climate change could reverse many of our development gains and would also hamper our development efforts. We must be proud that our President and our Government are well alive to the perils of climate change. To contrast this to one American President, Donald Trump who claims that the concept of global warming was created by the Chinese in order to make USA manufacturing uncompetitive; now that our President is in New York, he should take the opportunity to speak to President Trump and tell him about the perils of climate change.
Generally disaster arises when an extreme natural event, for example a storm, earthquake or flood strikes. Whether a natural event becomes a disaster depends on the coping mechanism. Our very own President is aware that as a country, we must improve our disaster responsiveness and resilience mechanism, hence the tabling of the Disaster Risk Management Bill.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the joys of information technology are right around us. However, there is one serious element which His Excellency, the President wants us to guard against as a country and as a people and that is cyber crime. The effect of cyber crime can be very upsetting, particularly to the victims. The victims may feel that their privacy has been invaded and may seem powerless. As our reliance on technology increases, the incidences and cases of cyber crime are likely to increase, hence the need for the Cyber Crime and Cyber Security Bill. It has come at the right time Mr. Speaker Sir. Sophisticated criminals are able to exploit vulnerabilities in computers in three ways; firstly by unauthorised access or hacking when someone gains access to your computer or device without your permission or malware. Malware is malicious software which monitors your online activity while you are online. The third one is denial of service, which is an attack that floods your computer data base. The website causes an overload and prevents it from functioning properly. There are also cases of identity theft on computers. Criminals gain access to your information, then use it to steal your money and other benefits. As a country, we should have the capacity to regulate the distribution and accessing of certain online contents such as online child pornography. The importance of the Cyber Crime and Cyber Security Bill cannot be over-emphasised.
I would like to also address the issue of land developers, particularly pertaining to the Land Developers Bill. We have seen a number of people who claim to be land developers turning out to be actually land barons. They have been stealing a lot of money from unsuspecting people. These land developers do not even know the regulatory frameworks of the local authorities or the compliance requirements from the different local authorities. So, it is a very good idea to have this Land Developers Bill. I am aware that some Members of Parliament are also land barons and so they will not be properly regulated. They takeover open spaces meant for church buildings under power lines and parcel those spaces to unsuspecting people. That is not right. Soon we are going for elections and we will be facing the very same people that we sold dummies to. So, the Land Developers Bill is going to provide the right framework to ensure that people qualified to do the job do it properly. There is also the issue of corruption. His
Excellency, the President has spoken on corruption a number of times. We speak about it, we abhor it but we tolerate it. The small fish are the ones hauled before the courts. Corruption is a scourge and all of us must stand firm and condemn it.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my delivery would not be complete without articulating some of the success stories of this Government, particularly with regard to agriculture. Yes, it was the first time to embark on command agriculture and indeed, in some cases, some inputs did not arrive on time or they were disjointedly delivered but by and large, command agriculture has been a resounding success. It has exceeded all our expectations. Despite all these drawbacks, the evidence is there for all of us to see. Visit the GMB depots in Karoi, Lions Den, Chegutu or even in Zhombe and see for yourself the stacks of maize. In some cases, some of the GMB depots are clearing more land in order to accommodate the inflows. However, as we move forward, it is true that one swallow does not make a summer. Therefore, as we move forward, we should try to replicate the successes of Command Agriculture. Indeed, it complimented the Presidential Inputs Scheme and ensured that in the coming two seasons, we exceed the inflows in our GMBs and we are back as a bread basket again. Those who used to say we are a basket case and claimed that the Land Reform Programme was a disaster, I am sure they are now eating their words. Indeed, our Land Reform Programme is likely to be a template that will be used in South Africa – that is unavoidable.
The other success story is the dualisation and rolling out of the Beitbridge-Harare-Chirundu highway. This is a very important national road which will boost economic activity on the north-south corridor but we need to move away from the rhetoric and get onto the ground. We need to see bulldozers and graders working. So, to the Hon. Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, while this is a noble programme, we want to see the evidence on the ground. The work has got to start now.
The other success story Mr. Speaker Sir, is the revival of the National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ). We cannot develop as a country if we do not revive the NRZ. So the partnership with Transnet is a very good development and has got to be speeded up in order for goods and services that are not supposed to be on the roads to be moved by rail. There are also plans to revamp some of our road networks throughout the country. That is very important and those are the few success stories that we are going to take to the electorate.
Indeed Mr. Speaker Sir, the future is bright but let us do our part to fulfill the legislative agenda that was set out by His Excellency the President and prepare ourselves for a new lease of life under the Ninth Parliament.
On a lighter note, Mr. Speaker Sir, on the day of the Official Opening, I and my colleagues saw some Supreme Court judges going out. They were wearing long wigs - are these not old fashioned, uncomfortable and remnants of the colonial era? Why are our prominent legal minds being subjected to the trappings of our former colonisers? I propose that the Judicial Service Commission holds a competition so that we can come up with appropriate and dignified regalia for our judges. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. MLILO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I will not glorify my colleague Hon. Members from the opposition by responding to them – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I would like to take this opportunity Mr. Speaker Sir, to seek the protection of the Chair because of the melancholy and bad behaviour that does not show that the Hon.
Members seated on your left are honourable – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]- May you kindly protect me Mr. Speaker Sir. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members on my left – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order Hon. Mliswa! If there is an issue that you are in disagreement with, you raise a point of order rather than shouting.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order. My point of order relates to the opening remarks by the Hon. Member. Without any provocation, I think he is the one who precipitated what transpired thereafter. He started by insulting Hon. Members from the opposition for no reason because if he had anything that he was not happy about, he should have raised it with the Chair. We do not know what he was referring to but I believe that he is the one who has actually brought it upon himself and I think if he can withdraw what he said, the insult to the Hon. Members of the opposition.
We are a loyal opposition Mr. Speaker, and I believe that we want to participate in all the proceedings in this august House. I think it is only appropriate for the Hon. Member to withdraw, then he can proceed with his debate. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Sibanda order! Hon.
Gonese, what you have done is exactly what I was requesting the Hon. Members behind you there. Hon. Mlilo, kindly withdraw your opening remarks.
HON. MLILO: Mr. Speaker Sir, with your indulgence and a lot of respect, I would not want to withdraw and I will tell you why – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Allow me to at least give you my reasons – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Sibanda here was insulting me when I stood up. He even continued to insult me by saying that I was – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, if you had an issue with an Hon. Member, you should have raised it with the Chair – that is the correct procedure. So, I ask you to withdraw and if you do not want to withdraw, then you may sit down. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
HON. MLILO: I understand Mr. Speaker Sir, that two wrongs do not make a right and as such, would like to withdraw my statement. Furthermore, with your indulgence Mr. Speaker Sir, I would want to lodge a complaint against Hon. Sibanda – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mlilo, do not get into
contestation with the Chair. No withdrawal is conditional, please withdraw your statement straight and forward.
HON. MLILO: I withdraw Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, you may proceed.
HON. MLILO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to debate and air my views on the massive worded speech that we were given by His Excellency, the Commander-in-Chief of Defence Forces of Zimbabwe, President Robert Mugabe. The opening remarks in his speech were motivating Members of Parliament and Parliament of Zimbabwe to finalise Bills that come before us and to show seriousness as we carry out our duties diligently and also to be objective as we scrutinise the bills that come before us as we deliberate and finalise on them. I think because of that, this shows that His
Excellency, the President takes the business of Parliament seriously. This is why he is imploring us as Members of Parliament to work very hard and be well presented and articulate in attempt to carry out our legislative mandate.
Mr. Speaker Sir, His Excellency did state that there are certain bills that are coming into the House which include the Child Justice Bill and the Marriages Bill. With regards to the Child Justice Bill, I believe this shows that our leader, His Excellency, is a leader par excellence – because for one to really care about kids or children, it shows that you are a leader above the rest. This is because the children whom we have are going to be our future. So, I would like to congratulate and support the President, His Excellency, for motivating his team, the Executive into bringing such important Bills to Parliament because the Child Protection Act comes at such a time when so many children are being abused and need someone to look after them. It is now imperative and it is serious that we as Members of Parliament look at that Bill, deliberate on it and protect our children.
When it comes to marriages, we realise that there are too many broken homes nowadays. You will realise that we have an average of 27 divorce cases on a daily basis in the High Court and as such, the sanctity of marriage has lost its value. I would like to believe, implore and congratulate the President for at least looking towards that direction, for motivating the Ministry of Justice to come up with a Marriages Bill that can protect the sanctity of marriage as an institution.
His Excellency also spoke about the backbone of the economy being our agriculture. This comes at such a beautiful time, after implementing the Command Agriculture where there were no tests, notes, theory or formula on how to carry it out but it has become a raving success in our country. It has become a big success in Zimbabwe to the extent that the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development yesterday stated that the silos have reached 1 million tones. I think the Command Agriculture was a success and this will eradicate hunger and poverty in Zimbabwe and it is taking
Zimbabwe back to its glory days of being called the bread basket of Africa and indeed, I am sure we are actually going to be the bread basket of Africa, if not the world this time around.
With regards to Command Agriculture and harvesting of water I would like to believe that as a Government, we have shown that we take the harvesting of water very seriously. This is why there is a dam called Tokwe-Mukorsi that was constructed and is benefitting so many people in Masvingo and part of the Midlands area. This shows how serious the country is with regards to harvesting of water. At the same time, we have Command Fisheries, not only do we want to harvest the water, but we also want to utilise it. So, I think the direction that the Government is taking of Command Fisheries under the theme of Command Agriculture, surely defines the root and direction; and also shows how serious His Excellency and his team, the Executive are, with regards to poverty alleviation and providing adequate food to the masses of Zimbabwe. We all know that an angry man and a hungry man are synonymous.
With regards to climate change, we do realise that climate is changing rapidly and the good thing is that in Zimbabwe, as a Government, obviously through His Excellency and the Minister in charge of the environment are parties and signatories to so many charters associated with climate change. However, at the same time, he also talked of disaster risk management. I think our President, through his Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, clearly showed that we become prepared for disaster management. You could tell and actually see it sometime last year when we had floods in certain areas. The Ministry diligently assisted the people and minimized the death rate and I think that now the Bill is coming in order to regularise operations. I would like to believe that the Ministry did a very good job and they need to be commended for the sterling job that they did.
His Excellency, in his speech, touched on the issues regarding the Labour Laws amendment. Previously, last year, there was a time when most people were chased away from work due to the ‘Zuva judgment.’ The judgment was so callous and did not consider how many years a member had served at his work place. It only gave them pittance and it brought poverty where so many kids stopped going to school because their parents were unable to even clothe or feed them. As such, I would like to commend His Excellency for seeking or directing Parliament to review the labour law so that the employee gets protection.
It is high time that the employee gets protected. As you can witness, the only security that one has as an employee these days is working for the Government. I would like to commend the President for bringing back this Bill and the amendment that will create harmony, stability and security for the employees who have suffered so much.
Mind you, it is not only the employee who suffers, it is the children. Behind every employee there are four or five dependants and I think we as Parliament need to take this Bill seriously and forget our parties and put the lives of Zimbabweans first and assist them – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – Excuse me Mr. Speaker, can you kindly protect me from Hon. Sibanda.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is he saying?
HON. MLILO: He is telling me that I gave Ice Cream to poison the V. P – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – he said that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mlilo, what type of protection, what has he done?
HON. MLILO: Mr. Speaker Sir, his insinuations are damaging to my character. He cannot insinuate that I, in any way, was involved in the alleged poisoning saga which is coming from him. He cannot as well, in any way say that I am talking about factions in ZANU PF. We are not talking about ZANU PF, I am carrying out my legislative mandate. As such, I request that you protect me from him Sir. May he please retract his statements – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Sibanda, will you allow the
Hon. Member to proceed with his speech without unnecessarily…
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Speaking in Tonga.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Ndanzwa. (Speaking in Tonga.) Thank you.
HON. MLILO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am well appreciative of the fact that we have got so many languages in Zimbabwe, but as the raiser of the complaint in English, I would like to be brought alive to his statement so that at least I understand.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Please carry on.
HON. MLILO: Zinapezeka. His Excellency, the President of Zimbabwe and Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces touched and made note of Zimbabwe’s accidents to the relevant annex of the 1947 UN Conventions on Privileges and Immunities under the UN World Tourism Organisation. I would like to appreciate that from the past six months, Zimbabwe’s tourism has increased and this has partly been a benefit which brought about the opening of the skies. With the advent of the new Victoria Falls Airport that was commissioned, you realise that the skies were been opened and Zimbabwe is a country which is recording quite a significant number of tourist arrivals and that will seriously boost our tourism sector.
It is beautiful and it is good that Zimbabwe as a country is endowed with natural resources such as the Victoria Falls and we have got so much in terms of livestock and in terms of wildlife where we boast of the big five. I think the tourism sector should be commended for the sterling job that they are doing and for the direction that they took from His Excellency that they have indeed turned into policy and direction.
I would like to touch on corruption Mr. Speaker Sir. His Excellency - all the time when he is given an opportunity to speak, he talks of corruption. Corruption is the mother of all disasters in any State...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can you lower your voices please, otherwise I cannot follow what the Hon. Member is saying. Please carry on.
HON. MLILO: Talumba Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to touch on corruption. Corruption is the mother of all catastrophic disasters that can occur in any country. It is epidemic and the most beautiful thing is that His Excellency our President speaks about it all the time. He does not condone such behavior of corruption at any level, and as such, we need to take his book seriously. I know that at times people are tempted to be corrupt but it is bad and evil. We have got a beautiful justice system that is very effective that jails such people.
His Excellency also touched on the Teaching Professions Council.
This touched me very much Sir. When you talk about the Teaching
Professions Council, this can at least dignify the teaching profession. You realise that from time immemorial, you would find people with O levels being employed and those with A levels being employed as temporary teachers in schools. That took away the dignity and value of the teaching profession. As such, the coming up of this Teaching Professions Council Bill will at least create some sanity in the teaching profession and at least bring some professionalism into the teaching profession. It would at least bring back the much needed and awaited dignity in such a profession because the temporary teachers had really created a mess in this profession.
To fnalise my debate I would like to touch on the issues of rape and also the issues of women that I also believe the President touched on. Every man and woman here is a product of a woman. This shows the value of a woman in our lives and for the fact that there are so many rape cases in Zimbabwe; it gives us so many sleepless nights as to who will protect our women, evolution and our future plan if our women are not protected. I would like to gladly affirm the fact that I am well alive to the fact that the Ministry of Justice has been looking at measures of extending the jail terms for people who rape women.
I think they should take them to life imprisonment because women are people that we respect so much. We are all products of women and as such, we should respect and protect our women who happen to be our mothers, not forgetting the boy child. The boy child gets assaulted in every different way, but I would like to believe that with the Bills that we have and with the statutes that are coming in, we will be able to protect the kids and not only protect them, but also protect the adults at the same time.
I would also like to take this opportunity to partner with His Excellency to thank the Defence and Security sectors of Zimbabwe. The only thing that makes Zimbabwe a marketable tourist attraction centre and the only thing that makes Zimbabwe an attractive destination is because of the peace and tranquility that is prevailing in the country.
Indeed, the Defence and Security sectors are playing a pivotal role and they are doing an immaculate job in creating that serenity in the country of Zimbabwe.
At the same time, I would like to implore them to keep that serenity prevailing towards elections and even after elections and going forward. This is because peace begins with all of us and it is more serious and it is very imperative that peace be restored in the country of Zimbabwe which we already have. So, I would like to commend the Service Chiefs, the Defence and the Security Industry for the sterling job that they have done. Lastly but not least, I would like to thank His Excellency the President for such a... [Time limit]
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, your time is up Hon. Member. Thank you. Before I call for any further debate, allow me to recognise that one of us, Hon. Khupe has been respected and honoured by being capped at the University of Zimbabwe with a doctorate degree. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Order, order! I am aware that about five more amongst us are working towards attaining that level of academic excellence and I wish to encourage them to complete their doctorates in the footsteps of Dr. Khupe. I am also aware that there are others who are proceeding with their Master’s and first degrees, please do not give up,
you will not be disappointed in the end.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You have a point of order, okay.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: May I start by congratulating Hon. Dr. Khupe for the doctorate. My question is since we are Zimbabweans and whenever one of us is sick, as a family we are also affected. My question is directed to the Vice Presidents of the Opposition Hon. Mudzuri and Hon. Chamisa. May these members inform this House on the condition of the MDC T party leader Mr. M. Tsvangirai and are they not preparing for the takeover of the party should he die?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. With all due respect to Hon. Chinotimba, when an announcement is made, you expect a follow up on the similar vein but do not come up with something so different and has nothing to do with the announcement from the Chair. In as much as I think, all people of good will wish Mr. Tsvangirai a speedy recovery. Thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Mr. Speaker
Sir, allow me to congratulate Dr. Khupe for what she has attained and hoping that the MDC will put her to good use. Mr. Speaker, allow me also to glorify the Speech that was given by His Excellency, the President of the Republic, Cde. R.G. Mugabe. From the Speech, I want to make just a few comments – [HON. MEMBER: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Members, go back to your Standing Orders. The House deserves decorum. You are on serious business here, so please respect that. There is no point of the Chair always calling you to order unnecessarily. Thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I was saying I want to join other Members to congratulate Dr. Khupe for what she has attained in educational circles, hoping that the MDC is going to put her to good use. Mr. Speaker, I also want to take this opportunity to glorify the Speech that was given by His Excellency, the President of the Republic, Cde. R.G. Mugabe. From the Speech, Madam Speaker I will dwell on three if not four issues that I find to be very important, pertinent, critical and relevant to the well-being of this nation.
The President talked about Command Agriculture Madam Speaker, which was a very successful activity in this country in that we hear from the relevant Ministry …
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My point of order basically trails what the Hon. Speaker had indicated in congratulating Dr. Khupe on her achievements but after seeing you coming to take the Chair, Hon. Speaker I would not manage to simply sit except to stand up and say we stand with you; we stand with you Hon. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member.
Hon. Member, you can proceed with your debate.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Madam Speaker, I would want to make
some observations and a few comments on three if not four issues that were brought to therefore by His. Excellency – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Members, can you not whisper? If you cannot, this is when I call you to go to the lobby. I want to hear what the Hon. Member is saying. Hon.
Member, can you proceed.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me start
by the last comments by His Excellency in his Speech where he talked about our behaviour in Parliament. He called upon Hon. Members of this august House to have impeccable Parliamentary behaviour. Mr. Speaker, let us not take that with a pinch of salt. Let us take that as a proper guidance from His. Excellency because the electorate out there would want to hear us debate issues that affect the nation. I am hopeful that as I make my presentation Hon. Members will be quiet, listening to my arguments arising from the Speech that was given by His Excellency.
Firstly, he talked about Command Agriculture, which I view as a successful activity for the betterment of this nation. Madam Speaker, allow me to congratulate the brains behind Command Agriculture and those that were steering the programme who are in Government. It was a successful programme but we resolve as Parliament that this programme should cascade from commercial farms, plots to the villages so that villagers from where we come from also benefit from Command
Agriculture which is a noble and well thought out initiative. In that vein
Madam Speaker, we also want to call upon the relevant Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development to ensure that as we approach the agricultural season, inputs are distributed on time. Presidential Input Scheme is a very noble scheme but were we expect and anticipate that the seed, fertiliser and chemicals need to be distributed on time so that our farmers are kept alert.
Madam Speaker, we anticipate a good season similar to what we had last time and we are going to fill up our granaries. We call upon the relevant Ministries to activate their processes so that farmers in the villages and farms get adequate inputs so that we are always prepared as a nation to have food security.
Secondly Madam Speaker, I would want to talk about corruption. It is not enough for us as a nation that we carry out several launches to give information. We need action and more action. Once allegations of corruption are leveled against individuals in society no matter their stature, we expect the Anti-Corruption Commission, the ZRP’s CID department to be equal to the task, investigate these cases and bring people to book so that at the end of the day members of this particular nation have confidence in the Executive. So we want to call upon as Parliament the Executive agencies that are involved in investigating cases of corruption to be up and equal to the task so that we have confidence in the Executive. Launches are not enough; we would expect action. If it is Mandipaka or Holder, let justice take its course.
Madam Speaker, lastly I want to make a comment on the observations by His Excellency on the Defence and Security Forces. The peace that we enjoy Madam Speaker, I have always mentioned in this House is because of the efforts of our sons and daughters who are in the Zimbabwe Defence Forces, Police Force, Air Force and ZNA. We need, as a nation, to hold our Defence Forces in high esteem and desist from the habit of destabilizing our Defence Forces for the good of this nation because these sons and daughters have committed their energy to protect us, our territory and sovereignty. We must hold them in high esteem and give respect to our security forces.
Madam Speaker as we go to the Budget, I also want to call upon the relevant Ministry to be able to furnish financial resources which are adequate for the cause of the Zimbabwe Republic Police and Zimbabwe Defence Forces so that we remain peaceful as a nation. The time of vilifying our security forces is over because our life, security and safety depends on our security forces. So, I am making a call through this august House that we need to respect our security forces - the police, the army and the airforce for what they have done. All the time the President gives speeches, it might be at Heroes Acre or here in Parliament, he has always commended our defence forces. Equally the same with us as citizens, we want to take time to commend our defence forces and encourage them, help them, give them direction and work together with them for the betterment of our nation.
Lastly, Madam Speaker, let us all as a House congratulate the President for he has been able to acquit himself. He has always come before this Parliament, opened Parliament and given speeches and guidelines so that we are able to follow. So, he has acquitted himself quite well and he continues to do that. That is why, Madam Speaker, in 2018 some of us are going to vote for him. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me say a very good afternoon to you. Secondly, let me equally congratulate Hon. Dr. Khupe. It would be amiss for an independent candidate not to also append their signature to such a welcome move. I also want to say in line with the Speaker, we wish the President of the MDC-T a speedy recovery. I think that is quite sincere. I think he has been a true democrat for this country and it is only befitting that speedy recovery happens. Equally, the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa and head of
Government Business, we read through the interfaces and listened to the President having to narrate on the ordeal that he went through. We wish him a speedy recovery.
Madam Speaker, I want to begin by agreeing with Hon. Mandipaka on the aspect that the President truly acquitted himself in terms of being here in the House, which he has done very well, but I also want to look at his speech in the First Session of the Eight Parliament - from his previous speeches to the recent one. There was a second, a third and a fourth and this is the fifth.
When I decided to go through everything, I still have not read anywhere where from the first session speech there has been any improvement in terms of the economy of the country. I see that it was left out and as such, it is really what makes this country move forward.
While we enjoy the peace through the defence forces of this country, peace without economic transformation is not peace. In fact, where the economy is so tough, that very same peace can turn into unknown issues because hunger by its nature – when people are starving and are not doing well, they are likely to respond to that. So, I want to really emphasise on what it is that has been achieved. It is pretty clear that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members on my left,
could you please try and lower your voices.
HON. MLISWA: It is pretty clear that the ZIMASSET, the economic blue print, is now not being talked about. Neither have they come up with anything to replace ZIMASSET. It is not talked about and there is nothing to replace it. So, which economic path are we on?
So ZIMASSET, in terms of it ensuring that the economy comes in, there is a 10 Point Plan again, which came through to try and convince the electorate that ZIMASSET was operational. The 10 Point Plan again, nothing has happened. I would have loved hearing the President responding to ZIMASSET. I would have loved the President to respond to the 10 - Point Plan – how effective has it been in addressing the issues that he set up.
Up to day, and I say this over and over again, the Executive’s expenditure is way too high despite the Executive, especially the Cabinet
Ministers, not being able to discharge their duties professionally. Parliament, I must commend, despite us being underfunded, we still have managed to come to Parliament. We are going into elections and the CDF is not there and many of my colleagues that I am looking at are likely not to come back, not because they have not worked, but because there are no resources. The CDF of $50 000 will go a long way in ensuring that people, even the very same ZIMASSET document is supported because if I am given $50 000 and I dig a borehole or build a school, it is within ZIMASSET.
So, even as Members of Parliament, I am sad to say that while some of us are fortunate enough to have a bit more resources than others, but the aspect of resources must not be the one that puts a person into power. It must be the policies that the Government of the day has. So, in terms of the CDF, it is in a mess. We have not seen that. This is the final session. They have promised people what they will do because of the blue print document which is there, the manifesto and the policies which were there. They now cannot go back to the people because the people are saying they are lying. With all this publicity people think we were given the CDF. We have not been given the CDF. So, I would have liked the President to ensure that Members of Parliament are equally capacitated because Members of Parliament who are capacitated are able to do more for the country and so forth.
I am going through the legislative agenda. I see that out of the 206 pieces of legislation identified as requiring alignment to the Constitution, only 30 remain outstanding. That is misleading, totally misleading. We have got 455 that need to be aligned. Out of the 455, we have not even done 50. This is serious. We have not done 50, so what are we doing? So, I do not know who misinformed the President. It was well worded that out of the 206 pieces of legislation identified, what about the 455? There are some which certainly were supposed to come which are of fundamental importance.
You have got the provincial governments which must be there. It is in the Constitution. Whether we like it or not, the Constitution says that there must be provincial councils in place. It is not there. You talk about not having resources, so why in the first place did we even have a Constitution with that when we do not have resources. So to me, it shows that we have failed. We have failed the people of Zimbabwe by not having to deliver from a constitutional point of view because all of us here have the mandate to respect the Constitution and to ensure that the Constitution moves on. We are seen wanting.
Elections were held, people used resources for them to be there and they are still waiting for the Constitution to work. That is not happening. How will people have faith in the Constitution? When they were told to go and be elected, they were elected but they are still waiting for offices up to now. Another election is coming and nothing has been done in this Parliament to address that. Whether to amend it or not, nothing has been done. It is still there. So to me, when you do not respect your own Constitution, then you do not respect the will of the people and if you do not respect the will of the people, then there is anarchy. It builds from that when we do not respect the Constitution and I think constitutionalism is important.
You have got the aspect of the police as well, in terms of the human rights governance which must be there. I personally was involved in the elections in Hurungwe West, where the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission was very clear in saying that the police in this country and many others, must undergo training before elections. This addresses that very need because whether you like it or not, without addressing that, people will complain that the elections were not free, fair and credible because a certain section of the Constitution was not aligned. So to me, it is very important that as we are pushing towards that, this is done. We cannot pick what we want and say this we have done and so forth.
We also have the one on the public officer’s accountability. As Parliament, as you know Madam Speaker, we are leading in ensuring that there is a lifestyle audit on us. That is okay but what about the public officers, the Ministers, the President and the Vice Presidents. Everyone must go through this because you cannot talk about the public officers not coming and telling us what they have before they are in power. No wonder why this corruption goes unabated because all they do is plunder and nothing else. When you plunder and know there is somebody watching you, you are likely to stop because you know they are going to ask me what I have.
Right now, we must be able to know that when I got into
Parliament or as a Minister I had three cars, after that I have got four cars emanating from a, b, c, d. We cannot ask our Ministers about that. The public officers cannot be asked about that. So, here is a loophole for people to just plunder, especially where the Ministers have the power to appoint the boards. These boards are being appointed just to plunder.
Whenever one is going according to what the Minister wants, the board
is fired.
Parliament, we have oversight but we do not have powers like the South African Parliament has to scrutinise and appoint these parastatal heads. I want to thank the President for having recognised what Parliament did in saying, we cannot have Madam Mildred Chari being taken out and bring in Ndudzo, yet she clearly was doing her job in exposing. So, if you look at the exposure that she has done, the
President must be briefed by the Auditor General in terms of how Government has been functioning. That is the only way the President can fire his Ministers. This Ministry’s performance is like this, but there is no framework that is used.
The Auditor General’s reports and recommendations are critical in terms of doing that and I think if as Parliament we push for those recommendations, Parliament will go a long way in achieving a lot. There will be more credibility for us than anything else. I want to really thank all Members of Parliament for having pushed that. That showed that we were one when it came to corruption; that showed we were serving people. I would like to applaud that and that spirit must continue, especially Members from ZANU PF. I really saw Mbuya Nehanda rising on that one, that manga magarirwa musi uya muchitaurira vakuru venyu kuti aiwa zvamurikuita handizvo. Rambai muchizviita, musingasarudze faction aiwa. Rovai chokwadi sechokwadi.
On the Land Developers’ Bill - Madam Speaker, I am in an urban constituency, which whether you like it or not, I have to say this. This Government, which is a ZANU PF Government, is the godfather of the land barons. There has never been any other Government since 1980, except the Government of National Unity (GNU). They must deal with land barons. Failure to deal with land barons, you are losing elections.
People have no title deeds; their money is fleeced left, right and centre. To me, the reason why the Land Developers’ Bill is coming is admittedly ZANU PF admitting that we cannot deal with land barons. I am emotional because I am in Norton and I am seeing Kingsdale,
Galloway, ZAHA, and these companies which are there, and absolutely people without title deeds who have brought their properties 20 years ago, fully paid for. The land barons are coming again saying no, you have to pay VAT but 20 years ago there was no VAT. So, how are we waking up just one day and things have changed? One family, the father passes on who bought the land, the mother is kicked out with the kids and they re-sale that to somebody else - that cannot happen.
It is happening because without title, you have no ownership. In the rural areas, people must have title. This is the way we should go. Title brings ownership and there is no intellectual property rights, imperative investors coming into our country. They want to know what you have. Even in terms of the land reform, the failure in the land reform; as long as you have taken State land, there must be title; they must be privatised so that they have title.
The reason why the banks are not giving money is because they are saying there is no title. Everybody agrees that the land reform happened but give people title so that when they fail to pay back, the bank is able to sell that farm or repossess it and recover their money. You cannot nationalise land. Kenya has privatised land, Mozambique is privatising land and why cannot Zimbabwe privatise land? All what we want is production at the end of the day. To me, it is critical that this Land Developers Bill is certainly looked into but without us naming certain big people, we are wasting our time.
I really implore with my heart because the people in Norton belong to ZANU PF, MDC and so forth. They are suffering because there are certain heavy weights that you cannot name in your caucuses. I implore the Chief Whip from the ruling party to come hard on Ministers and so forth, they are accountable to you at the end of the day. Whatever name they have, if you want you can even invite me to your caucus and I will give you the names of the people.
It is pretty clear that when Minister Chombo was Minister of Local
Government, Public Works and National Housing, he presided over this. So, for the first time, whether he differs with Minister Kasukuwere or not in terms of the land barons, he is a small boy. I repeat, Hon.
Kasukuwere as Minister cannot deal with this issue because it has to be dealt with by Hon. Minister Chombo who was the Minister of Local Government for a long time. If you look back and I talk about the evidence in Norton, all these land barons in Norton were born during his tenure. And; being born during his tenure, how can you then investigate him when he is now the Minister of Home of Affairs? These policemen will go to him and say, chef I have come for you - this is the corruption which I speak emotionally that is killing this country.
There are people sitting in these offices letting the President down. They are busy parcelling land to the people, even to the First Family because they want to be in power yet people are suffering. We shall not hesitate as this Parliament to name and shame and this Land Developers’ Bill is incomplete without the Hon. Minister Chombo being investigated as the Minister who was in charge of this. By the time Hon.
Kasukuwere came into this Ministry, there was no more land. Land had been finished. I speak on behalf of the people of Norton who have cried, even ZANU PF people who have cried about this. To me, it is critical that we name and shame in this last Session so that we are known to be true Members of Parliament who stood for people. We cannot have a nation which has people without title deeds. That does not work, so this certainly means that…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you are
left with very few minutes.
HON. MLISWA: Again on corruption, once all this is happening, I totally agree with Hon. Mandipaka in terms of corruption, there is no political will on the governing party to deal with corruption. We now have a situation where, with due respect, I respect the First Family and the First Lady but the First Lady cannot interfere into the duties of the
Executive. She cannot stop …
HON. MARIDADI: I move that we increase the Hon. Member’s
time so that he can talk and finish his debate. Thank you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I second.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, with due respect, Hon. Vice
Mnangagwa was very clear when he responded to an issue which happening at rally. He said it is a ZANU PF issue, it is non-Executive, but when the First Lady is interfering into the work of the Executive then we are asking - what Executive powers has she got to stop an investigation on Jonathan Moyo? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – If I go through my Constitution, I do not see the Executive powers of the First Lady. I see the Executive powers of the President.
For me, corruption is no big deal, we will not deal with it because the First Family itself is not willing to deal with corrupt issues. The President comes here all the time in Parliament - zero tolerance on corruption. The level of corruption when he talked about it was at 30% but now it is at 120%. It is even irreversible. So, what is he going to explain to the nation about that? Parliament has many a times stood up and pointed out the US$15 billion which went missing and nothing has been said about it.
Now, we have issues where we have got shortage of foreign currency in the country which the President was supposed to talk on, we see luxurious cars being bought and it is there I the public. A US$45 million rand house is being bought when hospitals do not have medicines or ambulances; when children do not have schools and so forth. Where are we going at the end of the day? The aspect of forex is critical – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. You
are making a lot of voice. ADI-8920, a Ford Ranger and silver in colour is blocking others. Hon. Member, can you proceed – [HON.
MARIDADI: Nyatsorova pana First Lady, patsokodzere.] –
HON. MLISWA: If any of you are on tweeter, face book or on any social media – two Rolls Royce worth $5.4 million have been bought. We need to be sensitive to the plight of the Zimbabwean people
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. You will get your own chance to speak – [AN HON. MEMBERS:
Tirikurwadziwa.] –
HON. MLISWA: We need to be sensitive to the plight of the Zimbabwean people and no matter how much money you have, there is a time when you must buy a good car and there is a time when you must not buy a good car and bear with the public. What do the people say about such expenditure? All the foreign currency which is being preserved is going into extra spending, on extravagant things.
[Hon. Maridadi having handed a bottle of water to Hon. Mliswa.]
Thank you Hon. Maridadi. If the water had come from that side, I would have doubted but it is alright that it has come from you – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Let me just close by saying that it is important that we really have the plight of the people of Zimbabwe and in our expenditure, we cannot be extravagant at this point in time when there is even no foreign currency to do anything. The Command Agriculture has been excellent but that must be complemented by industry taking off. Without industry, we still have not gotten to where we are supposed to get to.
Thank you very much Madam Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. CHASI: Thank you Hon. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is not the issue, would you please leave the Hon. Member to debate – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Order!
HON. CHASI: This is exactly the conduct… – [HON.
MARIDADI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, you will get your chance to debate – [HON. MARIDADI: Zvirikungobuda, handisini ndikutaura, zvirikungobuda.] –
HON. CHASI: This is the conduct that the President asked us not to engage in – [HON. MUNENGAMI: V.P munhu anorespectiwa but momutuka futi kuBindura.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order Hon. Maridadi. May you proceed?
HON. CHASI: I just want to touch on very few points. The
President’s speech presented us with a very loaded –[+HON. D.
SIBANDA: May you speak aloud, we cannot hear you.] -
+HON. CHASI: I am trying to speak up but as I speak, the Hon. Members are making more noise. We should take note that as Hon. Members, we have a lot of work to do. Therefore, it is not expected of us to behave like children and making so much unnecessary noise. This is an august House and we need to respect it. We also need to respect one another – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members on my
left, this is my last warning.
HON. MUNENGAMI: May the Hon. Member use one language. He has been using Ndebele, Shona and English. May be, he will end up using sign language.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chasi, which language
are you debating in?
HON. CHASI: Well, I am being accosted with so many languages – [Laughter.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member! You are
entitled to use only one language out of the languages that you know.
Just use one language.
HON. CHASI: I will oblige Mr. Speaker, but can I just make a point. Can I just explain myself? I am being accosted by so many languages and I happen to be privileged to be able to speak so many of the sixteen languages that are contained in the Constitution.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. I hear
you but I have said, out of the sixteen languages that you know, you only use one language.
HON. CHASI: I will speak in English and I am going to address a few points that arise from the President’s speech. We have a very loaded programme and if we are organised which as of today, if we continue with the approach that I have witnessed today, we are not going anywhere near completing this programme.
I want to suggest a few approaches that I think if we adopt, we are going to be able to finish the task at hand. I am suggesting that we have a number of protocols which if we prioritise, we will be able to dispose of them very quickly because in terms of the Constitution, once we have signed International Agreements; there is really is not much debate. We are required by law to internalize them as a country and dispose of them very quickly.
I want to suggest that we carry out an audit as a country, of the Constitution because there is debate as to whether the laws that are said to be outstanding from the point of view of alignment with the
Constitution are in fact correct. I am suggesting that we must carry out a Constitutional audit and see whether in fact the figures that are being bandied about are in fact correct so that we have an implementation matrix for each Ministry. Each Ministry can then work out the statutes that they are supposed to come out with in terms of the Constitution. I do not think that without such a process, we will actually adequately work towards finalisation of the alignment process. We are already way behind in terms of this process. That is my suggestion.
I now want to focus on a very important Bill which was brought in by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, which is in respect of State owned enterprises with respect to corporate governance. This is a very important Bill. There has been discussion here centering around the turnaround of the economy. My understanding is that we have well in excess of seventy (70) State owned enterprises; most of which are really in an extremely bad state. From my research, I think there is probably one I have found which is in compliance with internationally accepted corporate governance principles. I think that is Tel One which has been able to publicise its financials. It is running according to generally accepted corporate governance principles.
Now, State-owned companies are very important in our economy and if they run properly and are properly managed, they would play a very important role in terms of turning around our economy. I want to suggest that I have had a very detailed study of this Bill and I see that the proposal is to have a unit in the President’s office which is responsible for manning these State-owned enterprises from a corporate Governance stand point.
Some of them go for years without a board; some of them do not publicize or publish their financial reports and so forth. Some of them do not even make profits and profit is not a consideration et cetera. Of course, with State enterprises, that may not be the primary concern and I do not think that a unit would be the appropriate structure to run the numerous concerns that are in our State owned parastatals. I would suggest that we actually have a corporate governance regulatory authority, because these parastatals are so numerous and with too many issues to have a minute unit in the President’s office to be considering all these issues.
I thought I should just raise this very important issue which I think would have a huge impact on our economy. That Mr. Speaker, in a much summarized form is the issue that I thought I should raise. This is a matter that we need to prioritize in Parliament because it has a huge impact on the economy. I also think that the proposal in the Bill of having a data bank of people that would be directors or board members in State owned enterprises is very important. I do not think it is proper that the appointment of board members should be a sole effort by the Minister, because we have a problem that every time there is a reshuffle, there is also a similar shuffle of board members in parastatals without a proper consideration of the necessary skills that we need to run the specific parastatals.
So, one asks the question to say what is the real motivation for the changes in those parastatals. So, if one has an independent board of corporate governance experts who would extrapolate from a big board of skills and get people that would then be experts to run specific parastatals, I think that would be very good for our State -owned enterprises. That is my five sense worth of contributions for today. I thank you very much.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume, Wednesday, 20th September, 2017.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF MINES AND MINERALS AMENDMENT BILL
2015 [H.B. 19, 2015] ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir, tomorrow Wednesday, 20th September, 2017, I will move that the motion on Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill 2015 [H.B. 19, 2015], which was superseded by the prorogation of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper, at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT, (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA), the House adjourned
at One Minute past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday 26th September, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
AANOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
APPOINTMENT OF THEMATIC COMMITTEES
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the Senate that Thematic Committees will continue their operations as constituted during the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament pending appointment by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders of new Committees for the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move the motion
standing in my name:
That a respectful address be presented to the President of
Zimbabwe as follows –
May it please you, your Excellency the President we, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I second.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Madam
President. I am very grateful for the motion which I raised in English. Let me read; ‘…we, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech which you have been pleased to address to
Parliament.’ I stood up to show some gratitude for what His Excellency
Cde. Robert Mugabe has done when he came to Parliament on the 12th of September opening the Fifth Session of the Eighth Parliament of Zimbabwe and this is the final session.
In his address, His Excellency talked about a lot of issues and I will debate on just a few. I believe as Senators we should debate these issues so that there is development in the country. One of the issues he talked about was the importance of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which was crafted in 2013. He said there are sub-sections which are built around the Constitution and what this means is that we need to align some of these rules, regulations and laws to the Constitution so that we ensure that the Constitution is the supreme law of the country through this alignment.
His Excellency directed that from 2017 to 2018, when we go for the next elections, we should work hard as Members of Parliament to align 30 Acts which are left to the current situation and the Constitution. What this means is, as Members of Parliament we should be prepared to work hard and be serious in our duties so that we align these laws.
His Excellency also stated that amongst these laws that need to be aligned, is the Child Justice Bill. The aim of this Bill is to protect both the boy and girl child. Madam President, I can assure you that Hon. Members of this august House, the Senate will work hard; they will put extra energy into these laws for protecting these youths. We also have to align the Marriages Bill aimed at protecting the girl child. We are saying, as Members of Parliament, we have been talking for quite some time whereby we have been blaming these early marriages. We said we are the House which is going to protect the girl child from these early marriages. I would like to emphasise and say whenever we are debating such pertinent issues, let us not copy what is happening in other countries. I know we need to research, we need to google but let us not copy the verbatim what is done in Australia or the Democratic Republic of Congo. We are Zimbabweans; we have our cultural values and norms. When we craft such regulations, we need Zimbabwean bred laws.
We also have to align the law on prisons, the correctional services because prisoners need to be rehabilitated. We realise that in the past, the laws we had on taking care of the prisoners were foreign and did not put emphasis on the rehabilitation and hence we need to make laws which will make the prisoners who have been released from incarceration to be rehabilitated and be accepted by the society. We need to look at those things. We need to look at such people. A person who has stolen some 18 cattle and is released back into the community, how do you view and accept him. His Excellency the President also talked about the Zimbabwean economy and I believe that as
Zimbabweans and as Members of Parliament, when we are debating this issue, let us talk about the economy of Zimbabwe.
My fellow Members of Parliament, let us avoid partisan politics and discrimination. We need to craft laws which will lead to the development of the country and the welfare of our people. A good example is, Zimbabwe is now the breadbasket of Southern Africa because of the Command Agriculture and we now need to look at other programmes that we can put into this command programme. My suggestion is that, we need to look at irrigation because the command that we are now talking about is supporting farmers with irrigation facilities. We are now saying amongst those farmers who do not have irrigation facilities, let us craft a legislation which will enable them to install these irrigation facilities like now that we are in September and we should be distributing agricultural inputs – the seeds, the fertilisers and the chemicals. It would be absurd for such facilities and things to be distributed in December when we are well into the season.
When we talk of the Disaster Risk Management Bill, we know that in the country whenever we go through the rainy season, we go through many disasters. So, we are saying the law which is to be crafted is going to capacitate people who are in that environment to be able to support them in a situation whereby they are faced with such problems. We now have climate change and we need to create laws that will enable us to cope with the climate change which is charactersied by the droughts. As Members of Parliament, let us go and google to enquire on the ways of mitigating the problems caused by climate change. What we know is that the problems on climate change at the moment are being handled at academic levels like at the universities and colleges and we are saying, let us bring them down to the village/home level.
The President also advised on the economy; that we need to have some supportive legislation which will help people who want to create employment and there should be laws which are friendly to investors who want to come to Zimbabwe. We need to create an enabling environment where the Insolvency Bill has to be linked to the Shop Licences Bill. So my fellow Parliamentarians, I am begging, advising and asking you to go and research on these Bills and motions because some of them were done in 1962 and they are out of sync with realities. We can also talk about the Labour Law Amendment Bill whereby people are just fired at random at the whim and will of the employer. I am very grateful for what Justice Emilia Muchawa did and that is by asking for the reinstatement of people who were fired on three month’s notice long back in 2015 following the Zuva saga and if they cannot be given their monies, they should be re-employed. That is one of the laws which were applied in retrospect. This was a judgement given by the Labour Court.
One of the statutes which is very precious to me is the Public Entities and Corporate Governance Bill. We used to talk about the inefficiency in the parastatals and we were complaining about the boards for these parastatals and the awarding of tenders. This Bill is going to give us a chance to rectify all these anomalies which we are talking about on the operations of these parastatals. Therefore, this is a new angle which we have adopted.
Again as Zimbabweans, we have land barons and developers who were stealing land from the people and stealing money from the ordinary people. Therefore, the Land Developers Bill is going to put some clearcut guidelines on the allocation of land and also the use of that land so that we will not have people who are shortchanged. We have a lot of people who are in difficulties and have lost monies because of this abuse of land.
I will now turn to the Minerals Amendment Bill. As chiefs who are the custodians of our tradition, we are saying the law which was operating is archaic because it states that if we have gold or a mineral which has been discovered in a certain area, it means that all those people who are living in that area are supposed to be moved and resettled somewhere. The owner of that place will be the man who has paid $500 to the Commissioner of Mines and those people who have lived there for ages and generations, should be moved out of that place, but we need to be prepared for this law. Again, let us make our registration.
The other law that we are going to talk about is the insurance on the Road Accident Registration Fund. What happens in the current situation is that whenever anybody is injured or killed in an accident, the best that the operator can do is to supply the coffin and food and that will be all yet the person who has died or has been maimed has been the breadwinner of the family and now the family lives in poverty. We need to work on this law and make it people friendly and orientated.
We are also going to debate a Bill on cyber crime and social media because social media and cyber crime have now destroyed the fabric of humanity. Some of the issues which are thrown around and debated in the social media are so uncouth and uncultured. There is vulgar language, falsehoods, alarm and despondence. We are saying we should not abuse the development in the ICT because ICT is a development that is meant to improve our lives but at the same time, the social media and cyber crime is destroying humanity, families and countries. There is going to be a Bill aimed at teachers whereby we are told of teachers who abuse their pupils. We need to craft a law which will protect both the teacher and the children. As a result, this Teachers’ Bill and the Child Protection Bill will work hard towards the protection of these people.
We know that the adults have to be protected from being sold as slaves in other countries, like we have heard in the past whereby we have had our girl children who were taken to those countries as slaves. Because of this social media, some people are leaving their jobs some of which are even good and high paying jobs. I have a friend of mine who was working at Pumpkin Hotel in Mutoko and he received this social media advert/message that he was going to get a good job in Kuwait. The parents tried to persuade him not to and they were even crying when they accompanied him to the airport but he said he was going to get a good job. When they got to the airport, they met with other families who were also with their children who were going to Kuwait and Asia for those jobs. Unfortunately, when they got there, they were miserable because of this human trafficking and yet they have been promised heaven on earth. When you get to the ground, you find that the grass is always greener on the other side, but when you get there it is just like the grass in your environment.
We are going to have a rape Bill and we are going to debate about it. In Zimbabwe rape cases are on the increase and the way the perpetrators are doing it is bad and cruel. Typical cases of such cruelty is a father raping his own daughter, a brother raping his own sister or even cases where a son rapes his own mother. In this act, it is no longer rape;
I do not know what to call it. Rape itself is immoral, diabolic and satanic; and the way these perpetrators are now doing it shows that Satanism is on the increase because you hear of a case where a father sexually abuses his children - really can we call this rape. Some of us think these are the ‘end time signs’ which were prophesied in the Bible.
We are advocating for mandatory incarceration sentences for people who are convicted of rape. Some may even suggest sentences of life imprisonment or some may even be talking of the castration of the offender. The President was very grateful because of the peace which is prevailing in Zimbabwe. This was attributed to the Defence Forces for providing security in the country. Zimbabwe is one of the few countries in Africa - if not in the world where we have peace and people have freedom of worship and freedom of association. When you compare Zimbabwe to other countries – taking an example of our neighbour
South Africa, where we have heard of some people, even our fellow Zimbabweans who were murdered in cold blood there but Zimbabwe is a peace-loving nation.
I am saying the fact that we meet as members of this august Senate is because of the peace in this Senate. In some countries, Members of Parliament cannot meet as open as we are doing now. Even when they meet in their Parliaments, they fight amongst themselves, but in Zimbabwe we have peace and we are very gratefully to our security forces. Members of this august Senate, I am pleading with you Hon. Senators when this Bill is tabled, let us support each other when debating; I am not very sure how much time we still have, maybe 7 or 8 months to go. I am pleading with you fellow parliamentarians; when we debate, do not think that as we are preparing to go for elections I might lose my seat, so why should I work hard. Yes, as a Member of Parliament, you may lose your seat but you will still be a Zimbabwean though not a Member of Parliament.
In the past two days we have heard rumours which were spread by the media which led to price hikes. I am saying Madam President; we should be giving an allowance or award as a form of gratitude to
Members of Parliament who make constructive debates. Let us not award Members of Parliament who will be talking of selfaggrandizement; we need to give prizes to Members of Parliament who would have debated on issues which have to do with the development of the country. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Thank you Madam President
for giving me this opportunity to respond to the Presidential speech. Madam President, I feel honoured to second the Presidential Speech which was addressed by His Excellency two weeks ago. Please allow me to respectfully commend His Excellency, the President, for setting the tone on issues that touch the nation, and indeed our cultural and moral fibre in this country.
Madam President, as traditional leaders, it goes without saying that we have an onerous responsibility to serve as vanguards of our culture and tradition. To this end, we are particularly pleased that the
Government’s legislative intent as espoused by His Excellency, the
President’s speech, demonstrates a clear commitment and a responsible political will to arrest the moral decadence and decay that has slowly creped in, in our society. I refer in particular to the Child Justice Bill and the Marriages Bill that will come before this Hon. Senate; which seeks to outlaw child marriages. Indeed such practices as child marriages fly against the values and ethos of our culture and tradition. It is a matter of grave concern to us as traditional leaders, as it should be to the Hon. Senators present here that 4% of girls are married off at the age of 15 whilst 34% are married at the age of 18. Child marriages violate various human rights, particularly on a girl child. It violates the victims’ rights to human dignity, the freedom of choice, health - especially reproductive health, personal liberty and other human rights.
It is therefore, commended and timely that the Government has seen it fit to legislate against early child marriages. Mr. President Sir, I must acknowledge that both our culture and some religious practices have been involved in encouraging child marriages. Be that as it may, the law alone will not put an end to this malpractice. We need to address the root cause of child marriages if we are to succeed in stemming the tide, otherwise we will do nothing more than prescribing an aspirin for a terminal illness. It may temporarily dull the pain but it will not cure the illness. A report by UNICEF (2016) “Child marriages predominantly affect girls who live in poverty and in rural areas. Girls from the poorest 20% of the households were more than 4 times as likely to be married or in unions before the age of 18 than girls from the richest
20% of the households.”
It behooves us, therefore, to map out sustainable poverty alleviation strategies if we are to arrest the scourge of child marriages. To this end, I must salute His Excellency, the President for spearheading the country’s success in regaining its food self-sufficiency through the introduction of Command Agriculture. As a country, we have shamed our detractors who were more than happy to label us a ‘basket case’ by retaining our bread-basket status. I am also pleased to note that in order to consolidate the gains made through Command Agriculture; Government will now be investing more resources in water harvesting and irrigation development.
Let me also draw this august House’s attention to the Cyber Crime and Cyber Security Bill. I must hasten to acknowledge that Information and Communication Technologies (ICTs) have created fertile opportunities for development and employment creation. However, as traditional leaders, we are gravely concerned at the level of moral decadence and shocking behaviour that has arisen from the use of ICTs, particularly social media tools.
Revenge pornography has suddenly come to the fore, while the circulation of shocking pictures of brazen nudity has become fashionable and a means to cheap fame. The proliferation of the so called ‘sex tapes’ has confounded our perception of our bodies as an embodiment of the
‘temple of God.’ My heart bleeds for our children that are exposed to such shameless acts. It is my hope that the Cyber Crime and Cyber Security Bill will criminalise and provide deterrent penalties against such repulsive acts. As Parliament, we must act immediately by lending our unqualified support to this Bill.
As the Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), allow me to also applaud His Excellency for recognising, acknowledging and committing to action against the phenomenon of climate change through the Disaster Risk Management
Bill. Sustainable Development Goal Number 13 – ‘Climate Action’ – calls signatory States, Zimbabwe included, to take action to mitigate climate change. As Chiefs and as Members of Parliament, I am sure we were all variously affected by the unanticipated floods that ravaged the country in the past rainy season, particularly in Masvingo and Tsholotsho.
Mr. President Sir, nothing less is expected of us as
Parliamentarians, Section 117 (1) of the Constitution states that “the Legislation Authority of Zimbabwe is derived from the people and is vested in and exercised in accordance with the Constitution by the
Legislature.” It is clear from this constitutional provision that we exercise our responsibilities as Members of Parliament at the pleasure of the people of this country; hence whatever we do should be for the good of this country. Indeed, we all owe it to posterity to ensure that we enact laws that guarantee the peace, order and good governance of Zimbabwe.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would
like to support the Presidential Speech which was delivered by His Excellency, the President which was moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira. Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira touched on rape cases which are on the increase on our children. This challenge of rape is common in homes where the mother is late or divorced and the children are being looked after by the father alone. When the father marries a second wife, she is reluctant to take care of another woman’s children. These children live in abuse.
It could be that the mother would be there but she would not disclose issues of rape in trying to protect her marriage. She will not be concerned about the future of her girl child but only concentrate on her marriage which is a challenge with us women. I am happy because the
President of this country pleaded with the churches, our constituents and chiefs that we should continue talking about this issue so that we bring it to an end.
Since there is a Bill coming to this House about the mandatory sentencing and rape sexual abuse, we should think deeply, especially us women on our input on that Bill. We should look at issues like when a child has been raped, what are the challenges that the girl child faces. Most of them are threatened by death or to be hurt or they are forced to implicate many men so that they will be no witnesses. We should assist the girl child and also as women, we should not be involved especially when a girl child is raped; when you are there, you should not protect your marriage at the expense of your child. We have come across such incidents as women. We should look into that.
The President also pleaded with us as Members of Parliament that we should get a chance to debate professionally and informatively on the Bills that are coming so that we help our country. He also pleaded with our Ministers that they should work hard and also come to Parliament. I have just come to add my voice on the issue of rape because it is very pertinent and it is happening in the rural areas. We are not happy about it. It looks like we are not Zimbabweans but because of women who have been divorced or who are late; their children really suffer hell here on earth.
I think there should be a strong law to protect these children that whenever they are giving their statements, they should not change. No one should interfere. They should not take heed to threats. We should deeply think about it so that our girl child will grow up properly. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add my voice to the motion that was brought to this august House moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane when they were talking about the report that was brought to this joint august House by the President of the country.
Mr. President, I want to thank the President of this country for the speech that he delivered which included the dualisation of the road from
Beitbridge to Chirundu. We have been long awaiting for the dualisation of this road. From past experience, the road is now a death trap. We do not know how many deaths have occurred along that road. They have tried by all means to mend potholes but alas, it was not helpful in any way because the road would be mended today but tomorrow, the same potholes are back. If this road is dualised, it will save a lot of lives.
Apart from this, I would like to thank His Excellency, the President when he talked about Command Agriculture which is taking place now, which has seen people in Zimbabwe for the whole of this year not having hunger in the country because we have enough food for our country as well as surplus after so many years when people were experiencing a lot of droughts as they were not having sufficient food. It is really a good gesture which we should also commend. I hope that the next two years, people are not going to starve again.
Mr. President, I would like to commend the President of the country when he talked about the Kuwait loan to Zhove Dam. The dam has been there for quite a long time and has not been beneficial to the community. Now that a loan has been secured, I think we are going to have a green belt which stretches for more than 60 kilometers along the river. As we know that Beitbridge on its own is in region five and mostly survives with irrigation – if not under irrigation, we cannot talk about meaningful agriculture especially when we talk about maize production. It will be good for the people of Beitbridge at least to have that green belt. Also, it will be good for Beitbridge to get sufficient water to supply the people of that community. As we all know, the town is fast growing but without water, it cannot go anywhere. So, it is also a good gesture.
I will talk a little bit about mining. When we talk about mining in our country, we know that we have a lot of the natural resources. I cannot even name them because they are so many. At the moment, we find out that we do not know what we have. We do not even know what we have used. We do not even know the future; whether we have enough reserves for our children. I think that there is need for that information to be made available because we have to know about our mining or where we are coming from and where we are going to. We ought to have our future reserves for the new generations to come.
There was also mention of climate change. Yes, it is a reality which we are living with. As a result, we find that when we talk about climate change, if we take into consideration the issue of water – water is life. Without water, we cannot survive. We find that at the moment, our underground water is dwindling. We are not having enough underground water. One asks a question – what is going to happen? What preparations do we have so that we have sufficient underground water because the phenomenon is continuing, what shall we do?
If it was my wish, I would wish that if it was possible, we should have awareness workshops to create awareness to the communities and everyone at large about this phenomenon of climate change because it is a reality which is coming hard on us. We do not even know what we are going to do.
Lastly, Mr. President I would like to talk a little bit about the Bill which is to come on Mandatory Sentencing for Rape and Sexual Abuse Bill. I think we have been waiting for this Bill because when we talk about rape, Mr. President, the sentences that are being given to people are just nothing. If it was my wish, Mr. President, when we talk about rape and sexual abuse sentences, especially on the rape and sexual abuses that are committed by relatives of children, I do not even think the 40 to 60 years is enough for those people.
If it is on close relatives, really, we should think about whether they should be put in jail for the rest of their lives because if you can imagine a father raping his own daughter; as the chief put it, we used to know rape cases, but these rape cases of fathers and daughters, uncles and grandchildren, really, it is something that has to be taken seriously. I think that by the time this Bill comes to this august House, members will debate seriously on this one and make proper recommendations on the sentences of these rape cases. With these few words, I would like to thank the two chiefs who moved this motion in this august House, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President for according me this opportunity to debate on the Presidential Speech. We want to thank the Lord for we all came back alive after the holiday. I want to thank the President, the Commander-In-Chief of the Defence Forces, for his speech. In his speech, he touched on a lot of things and also on Bills that should be debated in this House which we are supposed to align to the Constitution because if we do not debate on these issues, we would have done nothing. For us to raise our concerns, we should speak about it.
The President talked about mines and climate change, which led us to engage in Command Agriculture which has given us life as people of Zimbabwe. It was successful because of the chiefs. The chiefs really supported the Command Agriculture Programme. We want to thank you chiefs because last year, you really took your time to appease the spirits and we got some rains. We want you to continue so that we continue receiving these rains so that people will have good harvests. Even looking at the elections next year, it will go well because the people will not be hungry. People who are well fed are good mannered. Even if we do not debate it here in Parliament, the President really urged us to align all the laws with the Constitution.
At the end, the President talked of those who do not debate or those who abscond from coming to Parliament. We will continue to debate and those who do not debate, we will report them to the President because the spirit of the Lord will be upon us. Even if prices of commodities are going up, even if we have challenges, like in Muzarabani from Thursday, Friday and Saturday, there was no cooking oil on the market, but all those are dangerous to our health. So, in Muzarabani we are not worried about that because we eat peanut oil and oil from pumpkin seeds. We are eating traditional foods so that all those diseases caused by cooking oil are reduced. So in Muzarabani, we will keep trudging on with the nation of Zimbabwe. We will drink our mahewu and diseases will not come back.
We know that whatever, despite the situation, we are going to have our elections. So, Mr. President, I want to thank the President for his speech. He is very humble whenever he comes to speak to us. We cannot change anything. So, I want to thank you, Mr. President, for according me this opportunity to debate. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (HON. SEN. DR.
SEKERAMAYI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 27th September, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI), the Senate adjourned at Twenty Nine Minutes past Three o’clock p.m.